I call this meeting to order. Thank you all for being here. It's good to see you. So moving on to,
I guess, the second agenda, but the first thing that we're going to discuss are the minutes for the
August meeting have been distributed in red. Are there any sort of noted corrections to the minutes?
So yeah, Betsy did a great job of... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sorry you had to watch me cry. Yes. Yes, no,
I... I think it was great. Okay, good. Okay, excellent. I'm gonna go ahead and motion to approve the
minutes. Can I get a second? Second. Thank you. So all in favor of approving the minutes, say aye. Aye.
Any opposed, say nay.
All right, the minutes are approved. Thank you again, Betsy. And now Holly with a quick update on the
BAC financials. Hello, everyone. No changes since last month. Always the folks.
changes to our funds since last month. Of our total allocation, we've still just spent a total of $62,983
from our arts project grant cycle. We ended up awarding 57 artistic advancement grant applicants. We
voted on that at last month's meeting. Woohoo! All of those applicants have been notified, and we'll
be getting out the MOUs in the next couple of weeks. And then we will be issuing those payments. And
once those payments get out,
we will see another decrease in those funds. I think we allocated between $70,000 and $80,000 for that
cycle, which was what we had planned on. I'll let Leila talk about how competitive and difficult it
was during her.
grant report. So we've still got one more grant cycle to go. That's our operations cycle. That closes
next Friday. And we have a nice chunk of money that's a mix of City of Bloomington general fund and
local income tax funds and Bloomington Urban Enterprise Association funds to cover those applications.
I'm looking forward to another exciting grant review session for those. As you know, in addition to
our funds we
for grants every year. We've got a couple different pots of money. We've got $5,000 allocated for a
couple more public art and artistic advancement development workshops that will happen later this year.
And we've got right now $16,500 allocated for public art grants. That's a fund that we've let
The Public Arts Subcommittee kind of have reigned over and we will be talking about spending that money
in this Friday's Public Arts Subcommittee meeting. I am happy to answer any questions about money at
this time. Great. Okay. And Holly, back to you for agenda item number three, updates from the city.
of fun month. The only thing I'm going to report is so the budget hearings for the city of Bloomington
happens in August. No big surprises over all city departments were asked to make cuts just given what's
going on with state bill SE1.
Luckily, there were no cuts proposed to the arts budget, so we're very lucky about that. Yeah, I think
that's a good sign. Our administration understands the value of the arts. Yay. And so that information
has been presented to council, and now council still has to vote on the budget. I never want to see
everything that's going to be
fine until it's voted and approved and the state said yes, which will happen at the very end of this
year. But I haven't had any questions from council about any arts lines, and I take that as a good sign.
So I will just keep you all posted.
as that approval process moves forward. And so basically, as long as everything is approved, I will
have the same amount of money for grants as I did this year, and the same amount of money for public
art projects as I did this year as well. And some budget lines, we give annual allocations to both the
Buskirk Chalming Theater and Constellation Stage and Screen, who runs our Walden Arts Center, because
those are city-owned facilities, and we just want to make sure that they can
operates and also keep up with inflation and other things. That's all I have for city updates right
now. OK. For our next agenda item, I'm happy to introduce Carol Rhodes and Henry Leck from Pillar Arts,
the group formerly known as the Arts Alliance of Greater Bloomington. They're going to share a bit about
of the work that they do. And then there will be some time for any questions or comments from commissioners.
So I give the floor to you all. Thank you all for learning about us today. I'm going to start out basically
with a mission, give you some history in where we are today. The mission of Pillar Arts is to strengthen
and sustain the arts by connecting artists, cultural organizations, and artistic endeavors with patrons
and the community.
Next slide. We do have a vision where we envision a safe environment where artists feel empowered and
supported in an involving and engaged arts community. And Henry will talk about the history next, and
you'll learn how we do this. So there was a Bloomington Area Arts Council that folded because of financial issues.
2010, this Arts Alliance of Greater Bloomington was formed. It's a large group of practicing artists
and arts advocates. About 2011, they became incorporated. And then in 2012, they actually changed from
a steering committee to a group representing certain art genres.
Then in 2014, they received a 501C3 not-for-profit status. Next. So in 2016, then they officially created
a board of directors and were voted to replace the steering committee that had been there before. So
there are a lot of activities that went on between 2016 and 2021. But in 2021, a new event occurred
where we rented a space in the
College Mall. It was called Art Beat. And that was opened until the COVID closures occurred. Then we
moved over to another space called the Arts Alliance Center. In 2022, Arts Forward, which is an advocacy
group merged with the Arts Alliance of Greater Bloomington, created a unified organization to support
artists and be advocates for performance space and development. And in 2025, which has been a very full year,
The Byhand Gallery was ready to close. And to prevent it from closing, we took over the management and
ownership of Byhand Gallery. And then from there, we started looking at rebranding Pillar Arts. Next.
Yeah, from the outset, from the very beginning, Arts Alliance of Greater Bloomington, now Pillar Arts,
identified six distinct art groups, and our board has been made up of representatives from those six
forms of art, visual arts, music, literary arts, dance, theater, and film galleries and venues. We realize
that arts are changing, however, and we're starting to adapt to
new technologies and a mixture of these multimedia kinds of things. So we are hopefully adapting to
the times. And on to Henry. Next. So recently, actually in February, we were evicted from our space
at the Arts Alliance Center because we were paying low rent and had to make the decision, do we close
or do we move? And they said, well, we have the Victoria's Secret space.
which was near demolition condition. It was in horrible shape. It had been a laser tag place painted
bright blue, yellow, and orange. And there was stuff all over. The pipes were leaking. The thermostats
weren't working. And so we've invested about $10,000 in remodeling and updating that. And so now we've
more than doubled our size. This is about 8,900 square feet. That involves about six galleries, an X
special exhibit space, and a performance workshop space.
So we're now at right near Target store, but we're kind of at the end of the mall. Less traffic, but
more space. Next. So this space is all volunteers supported. We do pay a contractor who manages the
two galleries, but galleries are run by volunteers. And right now it actually is a challenge for us
to stay open every day because the space is so big. We have to have two volunteers to manage all the space.
We're working on that. There are currently 48 artists that display their goods in that space. We have
then monthly exhibits going on. And there is a jury process for artists to be in there. But there's
also a performance space, which is now 30 foot by 30. And we can seat about double the number of people
we could seat in the other space. Next. In February of this year, we acquired filler arts by hand.
They were ready to retire their downtown in Fountain Square. And now Byhand is part of Pillar Arts.
Byhand Gallery was established in 1974 as an artist-owned collaborative. So it's been in Bloomington
for over 45 years. And it showcases more than 100 local and regional artists.
By acquiring Pillar Arts by hand, we now can participate in Gallery Walk on Fridays, which is very good
for us. And we also have artwork in the Commons area around the fountain. The owners are still involved
and advising and a good relationship all the way around. So we're very happy to have By Hand Gallery next.
So the question, oh, there's one more slide for you. Well, actually, that is what I said. So why pillar
arts? We have a little double thing going on there. We had looked at our logo. It's Arts Alliance of
Greater Wilmington. It was in script. Younger people don't read script anymore. And it had a heart.
And it kind of identified us as being an old people Sunday afternoon.
white hair group, and we wanted to relate more to the ongoing edge of art in our city. So we went back
to try to redo the logo. And then we decided, Arts Alliance of Greater Bloomington is too many words
for a logo. So we have on our board Ryan Irwin, who's done a lot of the logo work in town, hot scotch
and various places like that. And we went through a long process of finding words where we could get a URL.
space, and would be representative for us, and came up with the word Pillar. So Pillar Arts is now our
new name. We're still Arts Alliance for Greater Bloomington. We're a DBA of Pillar Arts. And one of
the things we had to do was rebuild the website. So we now have a Pillar Arts. It used to be
BloomingtonArts.org, but now it's PillarArts.org website. It was launched in July of 2025. And as you
can see, it has
A lot of improvements to it. There's a bi-weekly rotation of member spotlights in it. We've incorporated
the directory into the site. We've had an interaction home page, which connects viewers of all kinds
to the resources. Our audience are artists and art organizations, community members, learners, supporters.
So we've tried to modernize the site. And proud to say, over 3,300 individual pages views have occurred
since we've launched the site. And 95% of those site visits
are new or not returning. Next slide, please. We have a number of books. OK. And then we have the arts
directory. Excuse me. I'm going to lose my voice. Go ahead. We do have an art directory, which has
consists of artist members, artists who are not members of the organization, organizations. Basically,
we have individual artists and organizations. And you don't have to be a member of Pillar Arts to belong
to the directory. So all artists are able to advertise there.
It is a guide to the people and places, creativity and limited. Yeah, and we have about 53 artists on
it and non-members are on it. There are about 38 organizational members and about seven non-member
organizational members. So the directory is growing and building and becoming more effective. Next.
Okay. We have some online resources. We have a bi-weekly newsletter that has more than 1,300 subscribers.
And we have a blog that's fairly active. Next. We also have a local and regional events calendar. It
started as a small endeavor a few years ago, and it's become very, very popular. Anyone can enter any activity.
about the arts in our events calendar. And according to our executive director, and I don't know exactly
where he got this data, it is the second most popular calendar in the area. So I advise you look at
it. It's just chock full of good things to do. Next. So in addition to having galleries, we support projects.
and different activities, for instance, Paint Bloomington, the youth arts camp we did last summer. We
support the Bloomington Portrait Group weekly. We were a supporter in Godzilla Weekend. We have a program
called Pilot Lights Incubator Program, which has been going on with Charles, meeting regularly online
with various innovators. And we've been actively working with IU Creatives in the IU Innovates Program,
creating a networking club on campus. Next.
You can find us on all the usual social media suspects except for X. So we're on Facebook, Slack,
Blue Sky, and Instagram. Well, Slack is actually for internal communications. So Facebook, Blue Sky,
and Instagram. You can find us there. Next.
So we know that we get support from the Bloomington Arts Commission. So I didn't add this in to this
slide. But we've had support in the past from the Indiana Arts Commission and from the Microsoft 365
nonprofit grant that we received. So we rely on long-term support from granting organizations, as well
as income from our members and from the galleries. Next. Next. We have a number of sponsors. These are
supportive members that we've
relied upon. Next. Thank you for listening. Open for questions. Yes? This is most impressive, extraordinary,
what you've done for Bloomington in terms of helping to gather some faltering, not to their own fault,
but faltering organizations and making something really exciting. That's great.
I am wondering whether there's an opportunity for you to do some more than you're already doing, some
exchanges of partnerships of co-advertising or co-projects with Constellation, with the Busker Chivalry,
or other organizations. It seems like there's lots of ways to get your word out, and you'll be in a
good spot to help
Those organizations can do the same. I can respond to that. We have a close relationship with Constellation.
They actually have a display in our gallery. And they give us half a page free in their playbill. And
Gabe was a leader in Arts Forward. So we've done three or four panel discussions. And Constellation
has given us free use of that space. So we've done that three or four times. We have a couple more that
we're looking forward to doing. With Busker Charley, we just co-sponsored the Godzilla
weekend with them. So we do work with those organizations pretty regularly. Great. Thank you. Are there
any sort of like exciting things on the horizon or like, I don't know, either like events or updates
or other? I mean, it's been an eventful year so far. I'm just wondering what's... Well, we have a lot
planned, but we've been a little dug under with
taking out by hand and rebonding that space and opening that up and rebranding it all. But we have a
very active programming committee. And there are performances happening in the space every weekend,
practically. And we have workshops planned. There's a regular belly dancing class going on there and
Tai Chi and various things like that. So it's been very active.
Big things coming up? Not so much. It's been a big year. Really intense three months. Yeah, we're really
increasing our performances and we have performances now just about weekly and people are approaching
us to use the space. The other thing is that we've made a decision philosophically and practically that
Our space is free to any not-for-profit in the city. And we're not charging rent. For instance, the
Jewish theater has their board meetings in our space. And if IU students want to come and use the space,
it's open and free for use in the community. Do you host any ongoing classes or workshops? We have regular
workshops happening. We have a couple scheduled coming up, oil painting workshops. OK, that's good to
know, because I've had a couple of people recently ask me for a space for like,
like ongoing workshops or something that would potentially be on a weekly basis for like a season basically.
We can count on that. OK, great. Thank you. That's an awesome resource.
We'll work hard to get our support grant application done this week. Thank you, everybody.
I should have asked if they had something on their website that talks about the space rental.
I'm pretty sure they do. Yeah. Well, did you mean the performing space is available for the workshops?
Mm-hmm. I think it's a multi-use space. I haven't been to the new space yet, but I'm kind of envisioning
it similar to the way their old available space worked. You could do it for many different types of
things. Oh, yeah. And it does stay here. It kind of has classes. OK, they do have it on their website.
Awesome. I just wanted to find the link.
we've got to hear from them. All right, moving on to agenda item number five, an update from the new
interim public art chair, Christina. So in light of transitions and just Natalie being, you know, leaving,
so I'll be stepping in as interim while we do this transition.
I don't have a lot of announcements for today. I just want to say that on Friday we have our public
arts subcommittee meeting here. And then also I'll be touching base with the people who are involved
with the task force. Just look out for that email this week. So that's really all I had. Agenda item
number six and updates from our grant subcommittee chair, Leila.
Hey, everyone. Yeah, just to reiterate, since it was brought up, I think we outlaid $68,500 for RSC
Advancements. It was, yeah, a lot of money, and it was still rather incredibly competitive. We funded
just over half, $55,000.
and a half percent of the applicants. And even that, getting to that level of that funding ratio, it
was pretty tough. We had to outlay additional funds. But all worth it. And it leaves us with still a
sizable amount of cash for operations. I don't recall the exact number. But ideally, operations tends to be
A bit more straightforward because the eligibility for it is pretty, the bar is, oh, hello, wow, they're
here already. They just left. Pillar Arts, welcome back, Pillar Arts. The bar for that is pretty high.
You have to be a 501c3 non-profit, and we ask for approval of that. Anyway, so that, as Pillar Arts
mentioned, that application is closing pretty soon, and so,
look for semi-mails from me about sorting out a time to review those. I don't want to spend as much
time as we needed last time just because typically we just get less applicants because it is just there's
a smaller eligibility pool for it. So that will be my last grant cycle as chair and on the actual commission. So yeah.
That's really it for now, I think. I think given that my time has come to a close, I will try to use
one or two of those regularly scheduled meetings that I typically cancel to just try to gather some
feedback and reflections from everyone about the process, possible improvements, things that we can
do going forward to just, yeah, to improve the grants process.
Also, if you are a grant reader, we may ask you to talk to some of the folks who wanted feedback on
their applications. We always offer feedback. Try to do that by Zoom. You know, try to make it pretty
quick, pretty casual. And we do our best to kind of remind you
share notes and always notes on what the decision was and why it was made. Typically, people ask for
feedback when they don't get the grant, almost always. So those things aren't. I mean, they can be somewhat
awkward, but they're not unto me antagonistic. I don't know. Everyone else seems to have a great time
with those. I don't enjoy those as much, but that's just because I'm very shy.
Yeah, so hopefully, you typically will be asked if you're a first reader. And you don't have to take
them. We can reassign them to someone else if you feel like, for some reason, you just can't do it.
I think that's everything, right? Yeah. The only thing I would maybe add is that with those meetings
that you discussed, I think we are currently planning to do one on September 19. Is that still correct?
Yeah. I'd like to hold that meeting for those of you who can make it.
It's here in person. Yeah, 12, 15. It's at noon. That's just, yeah. So I'll send out a reminder for
that and collect some maybe like agenda items. That'll be, you know, it'll be casual, but it'll just
be sort of a quick discussion and feedback session for all of us. Cool. That's all, I think. Thank you.
Thank you, Leila.
Any questions on either public art or grants before we move to comments from the chair? Okay great.
Okay I got a couple things here and then we are gonna I think likely have some some discussion today
about some of the vacancies that we have.
On the lighter side, I'll just give a quick reminder that we have a farewell event for Suzanne this
Friday, 6 to 8. We're meeting at Food Truck Friday. I think the idea is that it's going to be pretty
informal. It's going to show up, grab something from one of the trucks. We'll just all hang out at one
of the tables. And yeah, just hang out and chat. So it's just the at Switch Art Park? At Switch Art
Park, yep. I pulled it up. I saw an ad for it today.
Rock-E-Bassoon will be playing, the electric bassoon rock and roll group. Yeah, it's multiple bassoons
rocking out. And then the Splattertones, which is a pop-pop and instrumental jazz group. So yeah, quite
a lineup. So and then in general, I will say that both
both the mayor's office and the city council are currently considering applications for the vacancies
that we have currently. We have not received any updates on those at the moment, but like we did have
a number of highly qualified people apply for those. We've made a couple of recommendations. We will
see what they do, but yes. I know it's approved by them.
So do you make the, I mean, how do you? So those applications come in, and I believe, I know that Holly
sees them. OK. But also the mayor's office and the council also see those. And then I think if there
are folks that we see on there that we know and we think will be a good fit, we will make recommendations
that, like, hey, we would recommend these folks. And then they do with that what they will.
I have several people to apply, her and Angie Caldwell. Do you have any sort of thing about IU people?
I know IU is represented here, but in other words, do you have a limit of the number of IU people?
Do you try to stick to community people? I don't know that there's a formal policy or even a goal for
that. I think it's just sort of a general sense that, yeah, there should be a balance. A balance. Yeah.
And I feel like right now we have a pretty good balance of that. That's definitely something we try
to be cognizant of, but there's no municipal code.
That we don't. And then there are informal bylaws that we didn't include in anything like that. How
many people have been hired so far? We get applications on a rolling basis. But sometimes when people,
so there's only, if you all remember, there's like one application to be on
every commission. And so you can check boxes of which commission you want to be on. And so a lot of
people check like all the boxes. But yeah, yeah. You have to look at all of those for the arts. Yeah,
yeah. But it's really quick because it becomes pretty apparent pretty quickly, like what people are
really like looking to do. And so I think it
It makes it really easy for us to be able to say, OK, this person is a good fit, whereas this person
might be a better fit for a transportation implant, for example. But I would say that it kind of waxes
and wanes, I would say, at any given point in time.
three to five pretty excellent candidates. And some of those are based on conversations we've had with
community members. And some are just people just kind of out of the blue pop up as someone interested
in doing it. And I think it's like, unfortunately, this is one of the rare times where we have open
seats. And we'll have a couple more at the beginning of 2026.
A lot of times, though, when we're just full up, we're getting all these amazing applicants, and there's
just nothing we can do about it. So generally, as we're having conversations with those community members,
we just say, hey, we see you. We think, ultimately, you could be an excellent candidate when seats open
up. And we'll just kind of reduce the conversation with you when those seats do open. I asked Austin
White to apply, too. I thought he would be a good fit. Yeah. Yeah. He has applied. Yeah, good. Great.
Hope it gets to good people. Can I just mention one thing about Natalie leaving? Sure. I was wondering
why there wasn't a consideration that she could at least work out her term. And because we have vacancies,
and we need her expertise on that, you know what I mean? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. But the point
is, I mean, that would be a way
compromise on this thing. But that was that ever brought up or? I'm going to let you so that actually
transitions into my next point a little bit. I know that there is an individual commissioner, I believe,
Rob, Rob sent something to to the mayor's office, kind of proposed like suggesting that. And then so
I also I wrote to the
I wrote to the city council subcommittee on processes, and I did so in my capacity as chair, sharing
a few items that came up at our last meeting. I told them that we had a disruptive incident involving
the city code, and that we were interested in ways to increase our ability to recruit and retain high-level
engaged people. I mentioned both this idea
That you brought about like yeah, if someone moves out of the city but stays in the county if there
if there could be sort of a a grace period for them to leave I mentioned that I also mentioned
the possibility of like having one to two seats be sort of like Designated as like could be filled by
someone who lives outside the city limits but still in the county
So yeah, yeah, proposed a couple of those ideas. So I don't believe we've... I haven't heard anything
from the mayor's office. It sounds like that subcommittee is maybe considering these. It won't help
us in the short term, but I think it's something that, you know, based on what has happened, I think
they want to consider. And I really, I brought it up as sort of like,
it really was like a disruption to the work that we're doing. And it's not really about the particular
person and having them serve. It's just about this idea of, yeah, we're in the middle of a very, very
busy year. And I was going to get to some of the updates from the subcommittee. But I wanted to, before
I continue with that, I wanted to confirm that it's OK for me to sort of present these ideas to the
council as, like,
as like the chair and sort of like in my capacity chairs like on behalf of the commission. Okay. Can
we actually do a formal vote on that? Okay. So present the subcommittee that represents the county.
So basically the things that we are discussing here like the general ideas that we are having that like
I can present those in my capacity as chair on behalf of the commission to yeah.
I don't know if I can vote remotely, but absolutely. Please be our voice if you need more voices and
let us know. Okay. Yeah. Thank you, Rob. Thanks. So, yes. So, okay. Um, uh, yeah. So, um, I will say,
I guess all in favor of
acting as a chair and sort of like yeah using that and speaking on behalf of the Commission based on
what is presented in our discussions, in our public conversations. All in favor of that say aye. Any
opposed say nay.
Rob and Nia, would you be willing to unmute yourself and say hi? Yeah, sorry. I was in the chat.
That's fine. And I was like, yes, please do. And just obviously, I did not know that the annexation
stuff that was going on, I was not informed on that. And what would have made this all irrelevant, even
though it just blows my mind that it's a Bloomington address. You know what I mean?
People don't want to pay any more taxes or whatever. So they're like, we're not actually in Bloomington,
but hi, we're in Bloomington. You know what I mean? I don't know. Sorry, this is the vote. I vote aye.
I'm like, it just sucks. You know what I mean? All around. So yeah, so I guess so. Rob needs to say
aye. I think you have to say it for it to count. Sorry, Rob, can you say aye?
Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. OK, so yeah, great. I will continue to do so. And really, again,
to sort of summarize, what I'm presenting is that this is not about the individual. This is about the
work that we're doing. And it's about recruiting and retaining the talent that will make us successful
and that will ultimately, I think, benefit the city here.
So yeah, so the subcommittee brought up sort of the note that I had sent them and they are considering
both some of our suggestions and then also some like related suggestions as to like, but as a part of
sort of like broader changes on how commissions are run. So one thing that they brought up or I would
say two things
One thing that they brought up organically is that they, and I think Holly's mentioned this, they are
trying to create a formalized onboarding process for commissioners and people who serve on boards. I
saw the drafts of a PowerPoint slide for that when I sat in on their meeting. And so that is in the
works. And so I can't remember if there was a timeline for that, but that's something that's in the works.
And then a couple things, I think, specifically related to what we have discussed is, one, just like
a general clarifying the code as to what residency status is. I think that they had brought up that
there were, that it is, I mean, I think everyone's acknowledged it is, well, I shouldn't say everyone's
acknowledged, but we and I think some members of the council have acknowledged it is ambiguous. And
so I think clarifying that,
is something that's on their radar. They are considering options for county residents, like a couple
seats to be open to county residents, not just on ours, but on a number of other boards and commissions.
And this is actually something that they have already started to do. But it was brought up that I think
rather than maybe trying to piecemeal these for specific commissions, that they want to maybe just do
a broad approach and say,
Maybe with a couple exceptions, commissions will have the opportunity to have a couple of representatives
from the county. And then yeah, also I think they were open to this idea of this allowance for someone
who is on a commission or board if they move out of the city.
that they will, and they're in good standing, will be able to, I think, retain their seat through the
end of their term. And it sounds like, yeah, they were in favor of those ideas. They were in favor?
Yeah, or like, or they're generally receptive. They're going to do some more research. I think they've
asked their staff to sort of like look into maybe how this has been done. And I think, but in general,
like they're, the way they talked about it was favorably and,
I think the questions that came up were less about, is this a good idea or is this a bad idea? And it
was more like, well, how do we make this work? Is it attached to a specific seat? How would we manage
it? So they were already moving past into, well, how would we do that? So I don't have a sense of timeline
for these things. I just imagine it's not going to be a quick thing. I also got the sense at the meeting
This is not something that's going to be supported by the mayor's office. So yeah, it could hit a couple
bumps. We don't know. Can I say something, too? I was made aware, too, that some boarding commissions
have advisory roles. So those can be people. I don't know if the BAC's allowed that yet, but I just
wanted to make you guys aware that there can be advisory
commissioners who are on the commission, they just can't vote. So I just, they wouldn't be like a full
commissioner, but because if someone has expertise and they don't live in the city, what other commissions
have done is they have these advisory roles where that person with expertise can still be on it. And
so everyone gets to hear their thoughts and opinions. The only thing they can't do is vote. But I'm
not sure if in our code,
The BAC is allowed advising positions right now, but I just wanted to make you guys aware that that
could potentially be another option in the future for that sort of thing. That's interesting. Yeah,
so I just wanted to tell you. Yeah, I mentioned that to Natalie and Holly immediately, because I looked
at other boards that do have advisory positions. And because it's non-voting, the city funding versus
county funding should not be as big of an issue.
Because the idea is just their expertise is what is needed in the thing if they don't live in the city.
So that's why they exist in other boards. So I just wanted to definitely make you guys aware of that.
There's another version of that which we might consider, which so much of what we do in other commissions
do really rely on people or not on the commissions for information and advice. And it seems to me that,
in this particular situation of Natalie, we could simply ask her to help out, if she's willing, and
rely then on the benefit of her expertise. And we've got to remember that we sometimes rely on others.
For instance, in the grants, reading the grants, we had volunteers as part of the committee.
And I know that the Monroe County and Bloomington Foundation also will call people in to volunteer to
do things like create grants and so on. So I don't know if we necessarily need to have anything special
set up. Just decide that we want to reach out. I'm not saying the others are great ideas. I'd much rather
see them. Or at least have them part of the mix, but still. Natalie deserves the recognition of having
the title of being on the commission, though. To me, I'm just like, it's not enough to just have a special
commissioner or something. I'm just saying, if I was in Azzy's shoes, I would kind of be like, not.
You know what I mean? But obviously, we're not the same person, so it might be fine. But in my personal
opinion, I'm just like, why can't we just? You know what I mean? It just seems like it not.
our fault that it happened, you know what I mean? But they're putting all of the burden of their mistake
with the appointment on us. We have to pick up her slack or whatever. I mean, not really, but she deserves
that. I just need that to be said. I mean, we all say it, but whatever.
So I'm definitely looking to fill our current vacancies. I think that's my top priority. After that,
it will be to line up leadership for the next year, because our entire leadership team is going to be
transitioning either out, hopefully out of my third role of chair. And then I think we have someone
that's on the path to be the public art chair.
but you know formalizing that so I think maybe I think once once our commission is at like full full
capacity and set for the next year I would love to explore the sort of like these these ideas for folks
in advisory roles or and then also I and I will I will continue at least on this this particular issue
with the council continue to provide updates and continue to speak I do before we
I do unfortunately have one more item to raise about code and applicants, but before we move on to that,
do I have any other thoughts or comments on sort of like this particular issue? Okay. Yeah, thanks for
bringing that up, Etsy, and I'm glad that it's sort of like aligned with
that I was going to say. And I just, yeah, I really appreciate sort of the trust you all put in me to
sort of speak on the commission's behalf. I will do my best to do that. Okay, so we had another thing
come up. I'm going to keep the identity of this person sort of like not, I'm not going to say it, but
I'm gonna sort of like provide the context of what happened here.
So we have another issue come up regarding conflict of interest. So I wrote this out because I wanted
to get the language right. So shortly after the last meeting, we received an application for one of
the vacancies. That person is a highly qualified and active member of the Bloomington art scene. Holly
recommended the mayor's office consider this person for a seat. The mayor's office then vetted this
person and learned that they lead
a local organization that receives a BAC grant, and that a small portion of that grant supports their
salary. And it was then deemed that the potential for conflict of interest was too great, and that person
was told that they would not be appointed to the commission. And this is, they cited Indiana state code
35 to 44. I'm not going to read all that. But in particular, part of the Indiana state code.
Um, so, and, I don't know, this is, I have a lot of feelings about this, um, and I know, I know a little
bit about this as well, as, as, as Grant's chair, um, because, yeah, this is kind of closely tied into
how we grant and, and our sort of our relationships within the broader buildings and art scene. Um,
I mean, the situation is distinct from what happened with the residency, residency requirement,
but it's, there's a pattern developing here where,
sort of like code is being narrowly interpreted in a way that is really restrictive in kind of what
we're trying to do. And I just kind of wanted to get the group's feedback on whether a response or any
sort of action, I think, is warranted on this. I think we can't supersede state code. And we have to
be really careful that the trust stays with us to distribute this online personally.
Not that we have to agree with the code, because we don't, but unless you change the code, you can't
change what we do. And that's state level. It's not even local, right? Yeah, they were pointing to state
code. Yeah, they were. Yeah, so the state code, I recently read this code for another reason entirely
in its thoroughness.
The city is going above and beyond the state code's definition of conflict of interest. The state's
definition of a conflict of interest is a spouse or a dependent. So what this is, without getting too
into the details, the city is concerned about a perceived conflict of interest
The state code does not say that you cannot have conflicts of interest, just that they need to be disclosed.
My issue, coming from the grants perspective, and also public arts, I presume it would be similar. But
in grants, we fund quite a number. We're proud to fund lots of different people in the community,
organizations, individuals, projects. It is a testament to the effectiveness and the reach of our work
that we are funding
deeply and broadly across the cultural sector here in Bloomington. And it's also a testament to our
expertise as commissioners that we are involved in the local cultural communities. And so to enforce
an above and beyond state code perception of conflict of interest in the pursuit of some kind of fairness,
You know, it's misguided because what will happen is that the people who are most engaged in our community's
arts will be the most qualified to be on this commission and thus will not be able to be on it because
the better we do our jobs and the more engaged we are, the more we will, by this interpretation, exclude
ourselves from our ability to serve on this commission.
It's a self-defeating kind of interpretation. And that's what I expressed to Jard. I happened to be
around the person who received this application when it was received and when this came out. So I just,
you know, I had a kind of personal and strong negative reaction to it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean,
the issue here is down, I think, to the interpretation of the code. And that's what's, I think, I think
what we're seeing here is that code is being interpreted in a way.
I'm not a legal expert by any means. So I'd like to suggest another perspective on this. Because I think
perceptual conflict of interest is a very serious problem, a potential problem. And that it would be
best, I think, to avoid that. A person who would like to be on the commission here has many other ways
to act within the community.
and use his or her talents that way. And the difficulty comes when somebody says, this person got a
grant, or this person's organization got a grant, because that person's on the commission. And that
becomes a public issue. Trust issue. And things like that can become very public. Can I say something?
cautious in trying to make an exception. I have a question. This is a person who's received a grant.
They're not on the commission as of now when they applied for the grant, right? So I mean, I think that,
yeah, this is a flawed reading of the code because they were not on the commission when they got the
grant. And I think some of us have said that we are trying to, like,
promote and kind of uplift artists locally here. And I think if they've gotten a grant, that means they're
probably doing a good job. And that means we want them on our commission. I don't know if, while they're
on the commission, they can apply for a grant. I think that's a different thing, right? Yeah, I can
answer that question. So I'm just going to answer this from a very city, the way the code has been
Describe to me. So when this person was being interviewed by the mayor's office representative, they
were asked whether or not they would continue to apply for grants and whether or not any of the money
that would be received from that grant
could ever, in the future, go towards their own personal salary. So doing work on behalf of the organization
that they were putting the grant application for, and that person replied yes and said, my preference
is to stay active within this organization, have the ability to write the grants and be paid some of
the money from that grant. And so it was kind of, I think they were kind of given, they could have said
in that instance,
I prefer to be on the BAC. I will no longer have a budget line from one of our grants that pays me.
The other weird one is, if you are the person who writes the grants, and I think this is where Suzanne
did not have a conflict, she wasn't the person actually writing the grants for Bloomington Early Music,
and she didn't get paid through it. But if you, a BAC commissioner cannot
also be the primary grant writer. Yeah, I get that. Which makes sense. Right, right. And this person
also said, I just cannot promise you that going forward, I will not be the person who ends up having
to write that. It's good if they were honest about it and make their decision honestly. They cannot
make their own decision. What Holly's saying, to be clear,
If someone wants to be on the BAC and applies, and their organization will continue to apply for operations
grants, they can still be on the commission as long as their salary is not paid by the grant and they're
not the grant writer. So those are the two things. So that was the two issues with this applicant. So
just to be clear, that if they're not the grant writer and they're not receiving any money for their
salary from the grant, then they would be
If everything else was OK, they have a chance to still be on the commission. Right. I have a question.
So how far does this code go? To what extent? Because it's not just like the, you know, there's three,
we have three different cycles. So there's a lot of awardees. So how far does this go as far as our
recipients and them being able to participate as a commissioner? I think that's actually the question
that I'm getting at is like, I mean, I think, I mean,
You can certainly interpret the code in the way that it's written, in the way that the city has currently.
I think what my concern is, is that we are starting to see a pattern of restricting. And I don't know.
I don't know if someone like Suzanne were to apply today, if that would be seen as a perceived conflict
of interest. And so I guess what I'm asking the group here is, at what point do we sort of have to say,
hey, come on now?
Like, right. OK, so it could be now. We have a whole system for the conflict of interest. Like, we have
a whole form for that. Like, what is the deal? Like, honestly. Like, I do agree, like, once this grant
cycle's out, maybe they just apply then if there's still vacancy. But the vacancy's now. So it's kind
of annoying that they're enforcing it. But yeah, like, especially when it's like they wouldn't even
start till next year.
I mean, I guess there's some like overlap with the grant, right? It would be like, they would, I just,
the condition is so specific. It's, and I think that also if you can afford to like serve on VAC without
like ever applying for grants doing anything, then like that's cool. But like a lot of people rely on
those for like survival and stuff. So it's like, I feel like we can't discount people just because they
got VAC grants. Like it's at all.
This is just so specific, and I don't know. Where is their priorities? I don't get this. Sorry. Betsy
was going to say something.
Well, it just seems like now would be the time to question it, because it's true that, I mean, the only
way that we can perpetuate arts support in this town is to have really good people on the commission
that are the people applying for grants. And, you know, it's absurd. I can understand making a stipulation
that they wouldn't get paid through the grant. But what about arts?
What about the support grants for artists? I mean, what if an artist applies for a grant and they can't
ever be on the arts commission? I think currently, no, they can't. They can't. They can't. They can't.
What about the... It's not ever. It's just while you're getting the grant. Yeah, it's like, so basically
what you will be asked to...
Close or agree to if you are like if either the council or the mayor's office is going to appoint you
as you have to say during my tenure I will not do this or this and then you make the choice like say
so then you write your three-year term right and then if you change your mind
halfway through your term, then you would notify us. And then the lawyers would decide. And they would
most likely, following the code, would say, OK, if you're going to apply for a grant that yourself as
the grant writer. So this would be anyone who applied for an artistic advancement grant. Or if you're
going to apply for an operations grant, somebody else on your team is going to write it. But you as
the director are going to get
one tenth of that overall grant amount, then you must remove yourself. I want to say one thing just
about policy. These municipal codes are not new. These municipal codes were in place when I started
in 21. I think what we're seeing now is a difference in administration and a different approach to enforcing
them. And so I think what we're having to do here at the city is just
adapt as we're learning these new things that were never taught to us during the previous administration.
And we're not the only commission, we are not the only department that is experiencing this kind of
backlash because of this. And I think that Legal is beginning to acknowledge that and they came and
did a training for us at our staff meeting a couple of weeks ago where they talked specifically about
these two stipulations about who's writing the grant and who's actually getting a cut of the grant.
I think they've also offered to come to individual commission meetings
and share more information about that. I would ask you all as the commission to decide whether that's
something you would want and how you would want to handle that presentation. But I think for myself,
kind of being at the brunt of this every day, I feel like as somebody, one of the members of the public
said last month, I also think this is a time for education and training
up, just to make sure. Because I think what I hated most about this person being told by a representative
of the mayor's office that this was going to happen is that when I asked them if they were comfortable
with me making the recommendation, I didn't realize that they were going to come back and tell them
no. And I just hated that they had to like, they had their hopes up, and they had chosen to invest in
this in spite of what had happened. But they made their decision. Yeah, they did.
I think as we're talking to new candidates that we want to advance, we're having these conversations
with them in advance so we're not setting them up to be disappointed. That's good. Good to know for
me, asking people. You should apply. Yeah. Yeah, it's not just anybody. Right. So there's a conversation
right now just around whether or not we should have a discussion around people, while they're on the
commission,
they're allowed to like if they were to apply for a grant and get a grant and that confidence while
they're a commissioner not if they did in the past. No I think what I'm asking right now is is is do
we want to draft a um a collective response to this pattern that we're seeing or or and that could be
a it could be a statement of um of disapproval it could be a series of questions that we have it could be
Yeah, right. Maybe we should make a list of questions for them to answer for us. Okay. There's also
specifics about the money. I mean, if you've got a grant, if you apply for a grant before you became
a member of the commission and then you get paid as you're entering the commission, can you do that?
I mean, it's all about money, right? It's nothing else. Yes, the bottom line is financial gain. Totally.
Leila and then Paul. Yeah, I mean, I think I stand by my original point that however we respond to this,
that I think it's worth making them aware that this could potentially be erosive to our capacity to
do our best work as a commission.
whether or not they enforce it really strictly. First of all, there's nothing in the code that says
you can't have conflicts of interest or perceived conflicts of interest. They just need to be disclosed.
That's the actual state code. Trust me, I've read it like 10 times. So all that to say, in the past
with grants, we've had people who might have a relationship or even a tenuous relationship step out
of the room, not deliberate on that grant. We have it.
you know, procedures in place already that disclose those conflicts of interest. So to me, it seems
it would be better to refine those processes, provide them to the city, the mayor, the council, whomever.
It sounds like it's mostly the mayor's office here that's pushing back and say, you know, we have a
process for handling this business. Does it meet your legal scrutiny? I suspect they'll say no.
But I think we should say that this could be really corrosive to what we do. I think it would be. I've
been on the grants committee for six years. We've given grants to everyone in this city. It's just really
hard. Should I go up and be on the Board of Public Works and decide where
plumbing goes. I don't know. It just seems like we want experts, qualified and rich experts, to do this
decision making, not people who are at such a distance that they have not a single perceived conflict
of interest. That is my concern. It's not a big deal. I completely agree with you, Leyla. I think the
big picture is transparency.
and the ability to recuse yourself from any decisions of which you could be partial about. I mean, I'm
recalling when I was sitting on the university's tenure committee. I mean, you know all these people.
And at some point, if you know somebody closely, you just recuse yourself out of it. I know it's a different
situation.
But the point is to be transparent. And I know there are things of appearance, but if you're always
pressing for transparency, then I think that reduces those who want to sort of look at what you're doing
in a devious manner. OK. So there are lots of obvious instances to think of is when somebody's put forward
a grant proposal.
for instance, and what happens there. But the conflicts of interest can have many different dimensions
than that. So I was the chair of an executive committee of a large nonprofit in Cincinnati. And my wife
was an administrator in a county board that provided money to that same organization.
people found that out, I was disqualified. I couldn't, now I could see why that would be, that someone
might think, well, she loves her husband, he's not paid or anything, he's doing good stuff, let's, and
so let's tilt the things just a little bit towards that kind of project. And that's not a grant proposal,
that's not the individual getting anything, no money at all was involved.
But it was still a matter of being sure that the county's money, much of which came from the state,
was used in a way that was without any conflict of interest. So I think if we're going to talk this
through, we need to think about the fuller dimensions. I think the county made a good decision, honestly,
in my case. And it was just somewhat different than this.
and the nonprofit had a good income and so on. So they didn't need me really. But there are lots of
ways in which you can do things which people can then present to others as indicating an unfair way
of operating. And so it seems to me if somebody's, if the person had said, hey, I'm just gonna,
quit doing this particular thing over here, because I want to be on, we'd have no trouble here. It's
that decision about not to try to separate, try to keep both things going at once, as if there weren't
at least a perception of some conflict. It's going to be a lot for us to keep track of, especially the
grant writing committee. So I mean, I think that what Rob
what everyone's saying about transparency right up front. So lessen the burden for you guys on that
committee. I think you all have always done an excellent job. I mean, people have gotten up out of that
room and circumstances. I was like, OK. Yeah, yeah. They're very, they take it very seriously.
Yeah, for the first time in a minute, we're actually coming up against our meeting time here.
So I'm going to, if it's OK, I'm going to table this discussion for now. I'm happy to bring it up next
meeting if we would like to. In the meantime, it sounds like we have a series of questions, things that
we want to say, maybe processes that we want to articulate. I will say, if you have any questions,
or particular statements that you would feel comfortable contributing to, I think, a collective document,
please send those to me. And I will work on putting something together. And I would also, I think Holly,
I think under this idea of maybe having some sort of, I don't know, education, I'm a little,
I'm a little hesitant to have someone just come in here and tell us what's what. I think I would be
interested in having a conversation with someone who is maybe open to having a conversation. And so
I think if there's a way to, you on your end, if you could start having, maybe seeing who might be open
to coming and having a conversation with us about some of these things, that would be great.
Does that sound OK to everyone? Can I just say, The Bloody Lady is playing at 7 o'clock, which I think
we sponsored. Yes. And with the live score at the Buzzkurt Chummy Theater, if anyone wants to go there,
that would be a super weird movie. Yeah. So transition next to you. I'll play the events in important
dates. We've got one coming up in 34 minutes. So yeah, I already mentioned Food Truck Friday with Suzanne,
the bassoons.
jazz this this Friday any other events anyone wants to make note of coming up in the next couple weeks
October 1st Thursdays
Well, feel free to either if things come up, feel free to either add them to the doc. That doc is always
hyperlinked in the midterm emails and in the agendas. Or send those to me and I will add those. Moving
on to agenda item number nine, commissioner announcements.
Archaeology Anthropology this Friday. They have a free event. Is it tomorrow? Oh, yeah, you're right.
They usually do them on Thursdays. Those are awesome. Yes. It seems like it'll be fun. I don't know
what time it's starting. I just remembered it. I saw it today. Yeah. And they have free pizza for the
first 50 people, a chocolate, yeah, an ice cream bar, other events.
I think they're going to have food, yeah, but I'm not sure when exactly. Any other announcements? Okay.
We have no public. Okay, great.
I will go ahead and motion to adjourn this meeting. Can I get a second? Second. Thank you. All right.
Thank you all for your sessions today. Thanks.