WEBVTT 00:00:00.162 --> 00:00:08.105 - I'm going to go ahead and attempt to start. So I'm going to call this meeting to order of the Bloomington 00:00:08.105 --> 00:00:15.748 - Commission on Sustainability and Resilience. Are they in the meeting? Yes. Okay. So I'm going to call 00:00:15.748 --> 00:00:23.465 - the roll. We may have a quorum issue. We'll have to talk with that in a minute. So Tara, are you here? 00:00:23.465 --> 00:00:29.310 - Yes. Justin is absent. Rebecca, are you here? I am. Christopher Miles is not. 00:00:29.570 --> 00:00:37.038 - Zach Ammerman is here. Dave Rollo. Quentin Gilley. We have to see you, remember? I'm here. Okay. 00:00:37.038 --> 00:00:44.891 - Alex Dwork? Here. Maria is absent. Diana Okordosky? Here. And Ross Carlson? He's not here. I'm hoping 00:00:44.891 --> 00:00:52.051 - he shows up because, so we are, here's the issue. We are at six. I was hoping to avoid this. 00:00:52.051 --> 00:00:59.134 - We have seven. We have seven? Okay, seven, yes. Okay, so we have more than six is my point. 00:00:59.362 --> 00:01:09.869 - According to our bylaws, our quorum is set by the number of seats that are currently filled, 00:01:09.869 --> 00:01:21.618 - which is six. The city lawyers have recently in our meeting said that it's based on the number of total 00:01:21.618 --> 00:01:24.894 - seats, which would be eight. 00:01:25.794 --> 00:01:32.306 - That puts us in a conflict with the city. I was really hoping to avoid this. So I'm not sure exactly 00:01:32.306 --> 00:01:38.818 - how we want to proceed. Our bylaws, though, are unambiguous, as unambiguous as you can possibly get. 00:01:38.818 --> 00:01:45.459 - Yes. Yes. You want to go ahead? Yeah. Your bylaws supersedes whatever city. Whatever your bylaws says, 00:01:45.459 --> 00:01:52.165 - you go. OK, I will take that. Thank you very much. OK, we're good to go. Thank you. I was really hoping 00:01:52.165 --> 00:01:55.582 - to avoid that conflict on my first time sharing. OK. 00:01:56.770 --> 00:02:03.724 - and I'll put this in the minute, is what we were told two years ago-ish when this came up the last time, 00:02:03.724 --> 00:02:10.346 - was that, because the way the code is written is it's like seats filled or the bylaw, like the code 00:02:10.346 --> 00:02:17.366 - is written in a way that says like... We're good to go. Cool. Awesome. Okay. Phew, that's a lot of stress 00:02:17.366 --> 00:02:21.406 - off my back. Okay. So now we're going to approve the agenda. 00:02:22.114 --> 00:02:26.785 - So we have, as you can see, Deputy Clerk Crossley is here. She is wanting to give a presentation, I 00:02:26.785 --> 00:02:31.504 - believe about 15 minutes, to do sort of a mini commissioner training. Our agenda is kind of, the way 00:02:31.504 --> 00:02:36.268 - we write our agenda, it's kind of set in stone in our bylaws, how it's written, so that means we have 00:02:36.268 --> 00:02:40.940 - to add her in somewhere. I was going to, and I'll need a motion to do this, suggest that we add her 00:02:40.940 --> 00:02:45.378 - after public comment, so she would be in between point four and five, and I was going to allot 00:02:45.378 --> 00:02:48.414 - her approximately 15 minutes. Can I get a motion to that effect? 00:02:49.666 --> 00:02:57.278 - Okay. Cool. So I will go ahead and call the roll. So Tara Donnerdale. Yes. Justin is absent. Rebecca. 00:02:57.278 --> 00:03:04.890 - Yes. Chris is still absent. I think. Yes. Zach. Yes. Dave Rollo. Yes. Quentin Gilley. Yes. Alex Jork. 00:03:04.890 --> 00:03:12.577 - Yes. Maria is absent. Diana. Yes. And Ross is absent. Okay. So cool. Cool beans. So we're going to do. 00:03:12.577 --> 00:03:18.846 - So we need to now vote to actually approve the actual agenda as we just amended it. 00:03:19.426 --> 00:03:26.727 - Um, it seems silly, but that's the way it is. Um, I think, oh, I thought that was the approval. That 00:03:26.727 --> 00:03:34.172 - was to amend it. Yes. Now we have to actually adopt the agenda with the amendment. Um, so, okay. Okay. 00:03:34.172 --> 00:03:41.835 - All right. Okay. Um, so Tara. Yes. Justin's absent. Rebecca. Yes. Chris is absent. Zach. Yes. Dave Rollo. 00:03:41.835 --> 00:03:48.702 - Yes. Quentin Gilly. Yes. Alex. Yes. Maria is still absent. Diana. Yes. Okay. So it is adopted. 00:03:49.666 --> 00:03:55.931 - All right, so now we're gonna move right on to approving the minutes, which you all should have gotten 00:03:55.931 --> 00:04:01.710 - a copy of in your packet. Does anyone have any comments or proposed amendments to the minutes? 00:04:01.710 --> 00:04:07.914 - Hearing none, can I get a motion to approve the minutes? Motion to approve the minutes. Okay. Second. 00:04:07.914 --> 00:04:14.362 - Okay. All right, so let's approve the minutes. Tara? Yes. Justin is absent. Rebecca? Yes. Chris is absent 00:04:14.362 --> 00:04:17.342 - still. Yes. Zach? Yes. Councilmember Aralo? Yes. 00:04:19.266 --> 00:04:26.427 - Alex Torque? Yes. Maria is absent. Diana? Yes. Okay, cool. Cool beans. Minutes adopted. Okay. So now 00:04:26.427 --> 00:04:33.587 - we're on to public comment. I don't see anyone in the room. Is there anyone online who would like to 00:04:33.587 --> 00:04:40.819 - comment? If you would, please raise your hand. Okay, that's got one. So go ahead. You will have three 00:04:40.819 --> 00:04:48.830 - minutes. Please state your name for the record. Hello, my name is Jamie Shoal. I am a former commissioner on the 00:04:49.154 --> 00:04:59.133 - commission and I wanted to bring into the commission's awareness some of the things that have are affecting 00:04:59.133 --> 00:05:08.557 - the food system and that's in regards to what's going to be heard from Councilmember Rallo in regards 00:05:08.557 --> 00:05:17.982 - to AAI. There's a lot that's been going on recently and it's largely in the commercial ad but it does 00:05:18.242 --> 00:05:24.601 - follow into what will be affecting us here. I'm just going to list off a few things, because I don't 00:05:24.601 --> 00:05:30.960 - know if there's anyone on the commission right now who's really into the food system, but it is part 00:05:30.960 --> 00:05:37.318 - of sustainability and resilience. It's a very basic need. We need our food. One of them is, recently 00:05:37.318 --> 00:05:43.803 - it came into my awareness in the last few days that there is a pretty severe drought and that Nebraska 00:05:43.803 --> 00:05:45.566 - has about 60 days of water. 00:05:46.018 --> 00:05:54.558 - the farmers there are largely not planting. This goes down to Oklahoma and in the middle of the country. 00:05:54.558 --> 00:06:02.772 - There were many people chiming into this discussion and they're all having problems growing. Some of 00:06:02.772 --> 00:06:11.393 - the things that we're seeing with tariffs and with the war that's going on in the Middle East is directly 00:06:11.393 --> 00:06:15.134 - affecting us, but we'll be seeing more likely 00:06:15.298 --> 00:06:23.914 - this winter. So I have also seen where there's a few people calling the alarm that the Church of Jesus 00:06:23.914 --> 00:06:32.278 - Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Mormons, who have this very large background in food security, has 00:06:32.278 --> 00:06:41.479 - just recently sent, I think, 50 million tons, pounds of food across the nation to their bishop's storehouses. 00:06:41.479 --> 00:06:44.574 - This is a good thing for us to know. 00:06:44.770 --> 00:06:52.587 - because they are preparing and also have seen a need that's already there and that we are aware of, 00:06:52.587 --> 00:07:00.796 - but this is nationwide. In regards to the AI, I've recently learned also that the Farm Bureau has pushed 00:07:00.796 --> 00:07:09.239 - back against some of these large tractor manufacturing companies because farmers cannot fix their tractors. 00:07:09.239 --> 00:07:14.398 - A lot of this has to do with technology. If something's going on, 00:07:14.530 --> 00:07:22.825 - then they have to wait until a technician comes. That was pushed back, but it can't be seen on the television 00:07:22.825 --> 00:07:30.970 - show. It's not on television, but it's at the Sadi Farms. You can see this in the UK, specifically England. 00:07:30.970 --> 00:07:38.813 - When things get centralized, as is happening, and AI can be utilized, whether it's in that narrow, like 00:07:38.813 --> 00:07:43.262 - I just mentioned, for the tractors, or in a broader scale, 00:07:43.394 --> 00:07:51.667 - then the food system can be weaponized. This makes our local food security and our investment in gardens 00:07:51.667 --> 00:07:59.783 - and local farms extremely important, especially coming this winter. Also, I wanted to make folks aware 00:07:59.783 --> 00:08:07.977 - that starting July 1st, there is new home-based mentor guidelines that- So I think you're about at your 00:08:07.977 --> 00:08:12.862 - time. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. 00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:18.827 - Is there anybody else who would like to comment online or in person? I see nobody else in person. Anyone 00:08:18.827 --> 00:08:24.457 - online? If you would, please raise your hand. If not, I'm going to move on. Okay, moving on. So Jennifer, 00:08:24.457 --> 00:08:29.875 - if you'd like to step forward. I just briefly before she starts, I just want to note we have a pretty 00:08:29.875 --> 00:08:35.240 - packed agenda tonight. I'm going to try to get us through as quickly as possible. But try to stay as 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:40.657 - much as you can towards your time. I know we'll go over a little bit here and there. That's fine. But 00:08:40.657 --> 00:08:42.782 - as much as you can try to stick to your 00:08:44.898 --> 00:08:52.812 - over to Deputy Clerk Crossley. Thank you. Now I'm passing this out. This is the code of conduct as well 00:08:52.812 --> 00:09:00.573 - as the presentation slides that members got last week. And so I won't take too, too much of your time 00:09:00.573 --> 00:09:08.562 - because I know you have a fact agenda link back the same. But of course, I can stick around for a little 00:09:08.562 --> 00:09:14.878 - bit in case anybody has any questions. And I'll try to highlight exactly the major 00:09:17.474 --> 00:09:34.088 - the major sticking points to what we are talking about next. So, Sean and Jolie, I'll pass these out 00:09:34.088 --> 00:09:46.590 - to you as well so you can also see. I know you all got your staff training. 00:09:47.394 --> 00:09:56.474 - but you all can see what the code of conduct looks like. So, as I take questions. Okay, so for those 00:09:56.474 --> 00:10:06.094 - in virtual land and here in person, I'm familiar with some of you, but not all, but I'm Jennifer Crossley. 00:10:06.094 --> 00:10:14.814 - I'm the deputy clerk of communications and outreach. So I am under the city clerk Nicole Bolden. 00:10:15.042 --> 00:10:21.980 - And recently you all have received an email about going through a board and commission or training. 00:10:21.980 --> 00:10:29.056 - And so I know not everybody was able to come to training. I know you had mentioned that you couldn't. 00:10:29.056 --> 00:10:35.994 - And so I know Zach and Justin came last week and hopefully people thought it was informative. But I 00:10:35.994 --> 00:10:41.822 - have been with the city now going on five years. Can't believe it's been that long. 00:10:41.986 --> 00:10:48.713 - but in my role for almost two years. And the reason why we're doing this now is simply because in the 00:10:48.713 --> 00:10:55.439 - history of boards and commissions, and correct me if I'm wrong, we've never had anybody to own boards 00:10:55.439 --> 00:11:02.034 - and commissions, whether that means training people, training liaisons, training staff members, and 00:11:02.034 --> 00:11:06.782 - you all as important members of doing some good work in the commission. 00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:13.885 - We've never had that type of formal training. And so a lot of things have been left to your imagination 00:11:13.885 --> 00:11:20.567 - and just kind of flying off the seat of your pants. And the liaison's trying to figure out all the things 00:11:20.567 --> 00:11:26.996 - as well. And so last month, liaisons have went through their particular training. And then this week, 00:11:26.996 --> 00:11:33.551 - we will wrap up the training for board members and commissioners as well. But you all are extra special 00:11:33.551 --> 00:11:36.766 - because you get to have me tonight. So here we go. 00:11:37.186 --> 00:11:43.416 - But the biggest thing that I wanted to highlight in the short time frame that we have is the code of 00:11:43.416 --> 00:11:49.770 - conduct that everybody has. And this is dispersed through anybody that is serving on the city's boards 00:11:49.770 --> 00:11:55.939 - and commissions. This actually came from Councilmember Rallo a few years ago related to just making 00:11:55.939 --> 00:12:02.107 - sure that you all are knowing and understanding of what is expected of you when you are a member of 00:12:02.107 --> 00:12:06.302 - the city of Bloomington's boards and commissions. And so that means 00:12:06.594 --> 00:12:14.095 - you know, how to, you know, interact with the members of the public and how you are representing the 00:12:14.095 --> 00:12:21.820 - city when I mean representing the city is represented in the city on behalf of the Board of Commission. 00:12:21.820 --> 00:12:29.544 - So I just wanted to highlight that. So in your handouts that you all have here, the biggest things that 00:12:29.544 --> 00:12:33.406 - I wanted to mention is my roles, and so you all can 00:12:33.506 --> 00:12:40.395 - you know, look over that and review that as much as possible as well. We talk about communications and 00:12:40.395 --> 00:12:47.284 - I actually want to go over that because that is a big hot topic between a lot of the city's boards and 00:12:47.284 --> 00:12:54.173 - commissions. And there has been some hearsay and some kind of misinformation. So I wanted to reiterate 00:12:54.173 --> 00:13:00.862 - and actually use because there is as a example last week during our meeting. And so just to express 00:13:01.058 --> 00:13:07.929 - The city of Bloomington, when you are having your communications through, like if you're communicating 00:13:07.929 --> 00:13:14.933 - on behalf of the commission to the council as a whole, or the mayor or other entities within Bloomington 00:13:14.933 --> 00:13:21.737 - and Monroe County, that's totally fine. The only thing that we ask you to do, which you all have been 00:13:21.737 --> 00:13:28.408 - doing already, is you just have to vote on it as a commission as a whole to say this is what we are 00:13:28.408 --> 00:13:29.342 - likely doing. 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:36.273 - The only thing that's different this time around is that we are adding the disclaimer on there. And 00:13:36.273 --> 00:13:42.816 - so it's under the the communications part where it says the disclaimer language. And for those that 00:13:42.816 --> 00:13:49.491 - don't have this in front of them and be a team or teams, that's another entity via Zoom, it reads the 00:13:49.491 --> 00:13:56.165 - views expressed here solely of those. And you would put your commission are approved and their public 00:13:56.165 --> 00:13:58.782 - meetings and do not necessarily reflect 00:13:59.202 --> 00:14:05.236 - the views, policies or positions of the city of Bloomington. Only the office of the mayor has the authority 00:14:05.236 --> 00:14:10.823 - to issue policy statements on behalf of the executive branch of the city of Bloomington. So as long 00:14:10.823 --> 00:14:16.578 - as you all are putting that disclaimer out there as you are dispersing your what your thoughts are and 00:14:16.578 --> 00:14:22.276 - things, that's totally fine. And we just wanted to make sure that that is something that you all know 00:14:22.276 --> 00:14:28.478 - you can do because it was expressed before that people were saying, oh, you know, the city is trying to stifle 00:14:29.058 --> 00:14:35.156 - the way that we are communicating. And that's actually not the case at all. We just want to make sure 00:14:35.156 --> 00:14:41.314 - that we're being more formal. And it's not that this is just related to the city of Bloomington. A lot 00:14:41.314 --> 00:14:47.293 - of research that I've done for boards and commissions, actually their disclaimer language, any type 00:14:47.293 --> 00:14:53.331 - of communication that they are given to people actually has that disclaimer. So that's that's across 00:14:53.331 --> 00:14:55.902 - the board. And here we have open door law. 00:14:56.034 --> 00:15:02.772 - information as well. And so what constitutes a quorum. But again, as we have found out that your bylaws, 00:15:02.772 --> 00:15:09.381 - because your bylaws are set, you want to go by your bylaws. If you didn't have your bylaws, then you'd 00:15:09.381 --> 00:15:15.798 - kind of have to go through what city code actually says. So you all are good in that regard. And so 00:15:15.798 --> 00:15:18.750 - it mentioned, you know, hybrid participation, 00:15:18.850 --> 00:15:25.520 - Good job, Quinton, because you are doing exactly what you are supposed to do, which is have your camera 00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:32.061 - on when you are taking votes as well as taking roll call when you have members that are participating 00:15:32.061 --> 00:15:39.052 - virtually as well. The other thing that I wanted to mention is if you are going to be absent, you definitely 00:15:39.052 --> 00:15:45.465 - want to make sure you let the chair or the co-chairs know as well as your staff liaisons. They need 00:15:45.465 --> 00:15:47.710 - to know because what it is is that 00:15:47.938 --> 00:15:54.791 - If you miss three consecutive meetings, which is basically like your no call, no show, or four meetings 00:15:54.791 --> 00:16:01.380 - in a 12 month period, that starts the process, unfortunately, of you potentially being removed from 00:16:01.380 --> 00:16:07.970 - the commission. So just wanted to highlight that as well. The other big thing that I wanted to talk 00:16:07.970 --> 00:16:14.559 - about too before I switch over to the Code of Conduct is the subcommittees. That's what I wanted to 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:17.854 - highlight as well. So you all have subcommittees. 00:16:18.146 --> 00:16:26.030 - However, because I know that was a topic of discussion earlier this year, starting next year, if you 00:16:26.030 --> 00:16:34.148 - have subcommittees that are longer than six months or more, which is usually like a standing committee, 00:16:34.148 --> 00:16:42.188 - that would have to be approval by the appointed bodies. So meaning you would have to get approval from 00:16:42.188 --> 00:16:47.262 - the mayor as well as the other appointed body, which is council. 00:16:47.586 --> 00:16:54.816 - have a council member here, so I would use him to your advantage as much as possible. Can I ask a question? 00:16:54.816 --> 00:17:01.578 - Yes. We also have a seat that is appointed by IU and the Commission, so all four of those appointing 00:17:01.578 --> 00:17:08.473 - bodies or just the cities? Just the cities, yeah. So yes, that is a good question, but that's just the 00:17:08.473 --> 00:17:12.222 - appointing bodies. And the reason being is because also 00:17:12.930 --> 00:17:19.132 - Staff, in addition to, and I went over this in our training last week, but I also said I wanted to make 00:17:19.132 --> 00:17:25.513 - sure I'd say it out loud. Staff has lots of other things that they do. And so sometimes the misconception, 00:17:25.513 --> 00:17:31.536 - and I'm not saying that anybody here has that, is that, you know, the staff liaisons are just solely 00:17:31.536 --> 00:17:37.678 - here for the purpose of that particular board of commission. And they have plenty of other things that 00:17:37.678 --> 00:17:42.270 - they are doing. So when you put an official title of a subcommittee to your, 00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:49.307 - your subcommittee, that means that opens up the city by saying, well, staff has to be present. That 00:17:49.307 --> 00:17:55.991 - also means that zoom has to be here. And so we can make sure that we are here into the open door law 00:17:55.991 --> 00:18:02.609 - as well. So I just wanted to highlight that. But as long, if you wanted to talk amongst yourselves, 00:18:02.609 --> 00:18:06.910 - as long as two things don't happen, you create a serial meeting. 00:18:07.490 --> 00:18:14.956 - Or you make a quorum of the entire commission as a whole you can totally do that and what I mean by 00:18:14.956 --> 00:18:22.571 - serial meeting is if Me and Zack are a part of because there and we're talking and we're not a quorum 00:18:22.571 --> 00:18:30.260 - however that goes and talks to other people here that starts the process of making a quorum and that's 00:18:30.260 --> 00:18:35.710 - a serial meeting and so that is a violation of open-door law, however, I 00:18:36.322 --> 00:18:44.032 - And Zach and I wanted to talk about, you know, the purpose of AI and, you know, do that with and, 00:18:44.032 --> 00:18:52.136 - you know, do some other finding. We can bring that we can totally do that. And it's not violating open 00:18:52.136 --> 00:19:00.318 - door law. And we can bring that to the entire commission as a whole in the next meeting. So just wanted 00:19:00.318 --> 00:19:04.094 - to put that out there again as I'm wrapping up. 00:19:04.290 --> 00:19:12.481 - The code of conduct simply is just again, just making sure that we are going through all the rules and 00:19:12.481 --> 00:19:20.672 - regulations that are outlined by state code and Bloomington Municipal Code as well. And so some of the 00:19:20.672 --> 00:19:23.614 - highlights on the code of conduct is 00:19:24.258 --> 00:19:30.151 - representing the commission. So making sure that you are not going to the state house and saying, I'm 00:19:30.151 --> 00:19:36.103 - speaking on behalf of Bcoster and you've not brought that or you've not gotten approval from the body. 00:19:36.103 --> 00:19:41.880 - I've seen that happen in other boards and commissions and it gets really messy. So just making sure 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:47.658 - if you do want to have that communication or if you do want to speak on behalf of something and you 00:19:47.658 --> 00:19:54.014 - want to go to the council and speak, you can do so, but just make sure you vote amongst yourselves with that. 00:19:54.434 --> 00:20:00.865 - and that you're not just representing yourself as an individual. Conflict of interest. You all should 00:20:00.865 --> 00:20:07.169 - have received conflict of interest forms from me earlier this year to highlight. And I think you're 00:20:07.169 --> 00:20:13.536 - new, so I can make sure that you get that as well. But if there is any conflict of interest that you 00:20:13.536 --> 00:20:20.093 - have, you just have to make sure that you are announcing that before you are taking a vote. And I would 00:20:20.093 --> 00:20:24.254 - work with your staff liaisons as well as legal liaisons to ensure 00:20:24.738 --> 00:20:33.233 - what your conflict is, if it's a true thing that you should be backing off of, or it's something that 00:20:33.233 --> 00:20:41.894 - it's okay. The political involvement, that was something that was big that we went over, is that simply 00:20:41.894 --> 00:20:50.555 - when you are, people are so civically engaged and that is awesome. I am too in a lot of different other 00:20:50.555 --> 00:20:53.470 - ways and capacities here. However, 00:20:54.498 --> 00:21:01.716 - you are and you can totally you know do that however when you are doing that you cannot do that in the 00:21:01.716 --> 00:21:08.935 - name of your commission so if you are advocating on a particular candidate for a particular office you 00:21:08.935 --> 00:21:15.102 - cannot say I am you know so-and-so from V cost there and I because it almost looks like 00:21:15.682 --> 00:21:22.323 - this commission as a whole is endorsed in that particular candidate. So we want to stay neutral, clear. 00:21:22.323 --> 00:21:28.964 - And that's something that's going to be really, really important in the upcoming elections that we have 00:21:28.964 --> 00:21:35.477 - next year with the city and here as well for the general in November, just in case. And so if you are 00:21:35.477 --> 00:21:41.926 - running yourself and you want to be a candidate, you just want to make sure you can. We talked about 00:21:41.926 --> 00:21:45.374 - this last week to make sure it was not saying that we 00:21:45.538 --> 00:21:52.355 - Like you are, you can say that you are part of this commission, but where it gets a little tricky and 00:21:52.355 --> 00:21:59.574 - where you would blur the line is if you talk about your position on the commission as though the commission 00:21:59.574 --> 00:22:06.458 - is endorsing you as a candidate, that's where that gets to be a no-no. So clarity, just make sure that 00:22:06.458 --> 00:22:11.070 - when you are campaigning for somebody or going to a political event, 00:22:11.458 --> 00:22:19.558 - that you are doing that as yourself, as an individual member, but not on behalf of the commission. 00:22:19.558 --> 00:22:27.740 - And then, of course, the residency requirements. So because there has the residency requirements of 00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:36.085 - city residency only. However, if you are moving outside of city limits, unfortunately, that means you 00:22:36.085 --> 00:22:39.358 - would have to resign because that means 00:22:40.066 --> 00:22:47.377 - you don't fit the requirements. So when that does happen, you just have to let your staff member know 00:22:47.377 --> 00:22:54.759 - and then they let me know so that we can send you an official letter of resignation. And so other than 00:22:54.759 --> 00:23:02.070 - that, those that are in virtual land and those that are not here that won't be able to participate in 00:23:02.070 --> 00:23:07.230 - training on Thursday, I can give Sean and Jolie these for them to sign. 00:23:07.746 --> 00:23:15.165 - But in front of you, you have the code of conduct. So I just ask that you review that and you sign it. 00:23:15.165 --> 00:23:22.656 - Again, I'll stick around for a little bit as long as I can. And if anybody has any questions, feel free 00:23:22.656 --> 00:23:29.859 - to email me or chat me. I'm here tomorrow and through the rest of the week. But yeah, so that's it. 00:23:29.859 --> 00:23:37.566 - I hope you find this really informative in the short time frame that we have had. But yeah, any questions? 00:23:37.922 --> 00:23:45.607 - Just let me know. OK, I have four questions, but they're largely procedural. Is this digital so that 00:23:45.607 --> 00:23:53.369 - we can include it on board? Does it need to be included in our packet materials for this meeting? No? 00:23:53.369 --> 00:24:01.054 - OK. When do we need to sign the Code of Conduct by? Honestly, if you can sign it by tonight and sign 00:24:01.054 --> 00:24:07.902 - it. I would like to have my attorney look at it before I sign. Sure, that's totally fine. 00:24:08.098 --> 00:24:15.917 - So, and of course, this isn't just something that I've came up with. Again, this has been vetted through 00:24:15.917 --> 00:24:23.364 - the committee on council processes as well as our legal as well. So, completely fine if folks don't 00:24:23.364 --> 00:24:30.811 - feel comfortable in signing it right now and you just want to review it. I would recommend maybe by 00:24:30.811 --> 00:24:37.886 - the next meeting that people would be able to get that back too. And then my last question is, 00:24:38.018 --> 00:24:45.342 - Are the, like the speech that is detrimental to the city, is that in our official capacity as commissioners? 00:24:45.342 --> 00:24:52.061 - Like, are we not allowed to criticize the city as citizens? Or like, can you just provide some more 00:24:52.061 --> 00:24:59.317 - clarity on what that means? So basically from what I understand is, if you are doing that in your capacity, 00:24:59.317 --> 00:25:06.238 - because we kind of have to be very careful on what we are telling people, what they can and cannot do. 00:25:06.370 --> 00:25:13.693 - that blurs in the lines with First Amendment and whatnot. I think what that means is how you are conducting 00:25:13.693 --> 00:25:20.542 - yourself on behalf of your role as a commission member. A few years ago, there was an issue where we 00:25:20.542 --> 00:25:27.391 - had people that were really kind of verbally attacking people online in their role and capacity as a 00:25:27.391 --> 00:25:34.782 - commissioner. And that was a huge red flag because people felt really uncomfortable and basically felt like, 00:25:35.426 --> 00:25:41.958 - that person's views represented the commission and the city as well. So, yes. And I know people have 00:25:41.958 --> 00:25:48.685 - been in here and other capacities and other ways, you know, advocating and that's completely fine. It's 00:25:48.685 --> 00:25:55.282 - just when you are doing that in the name of the commission. And then is the commission allowed, so in 00:25:55.282 --> 00:26:01.749 - the political involvement, is the commission, if it's as like a course of business, allowed to take 00:26:01.749 --> 00:26:02.590 - positions on 00:26:03.106 --> 00:26:08.949 - like if there's like a referendum or something that is applicable to our business, are we allowed to 00:26:08.949 --> 00:26:15.138 - take a position if we like wanted to do a resolution, like we think this is a good referendum or something 00:26:15.138 --> 00:26:21.155 - like that, or is that not allowed as part of, like I know we can't say like I'm a commissioner and vote 00:26:21.155 --> 00:26:26.939 - for this, but if the commission decided to take something up that was related to something that was 00:26:26.939 --> 00:26:29.022 - before the voters, is that allowed? 00:26:29.602 --> 00:26:37.078 - I am I'll check with legal on that one. So I'll write that down. My thought would be as long as it pertains 00:26:37.078 --> 00:26:44.207 - to the mission and the like the code of what because there is doing. Yes. But as long as you are doing 00:26:44.207 --> 00:26:51.267 - that with taking an official vote and putting that disclaimer language. But I'll follow up with legal 00:26:51.267 --> 00:26:57.566 - and I can get back with you all. So we're at one minute before I had said we were going to 00:26:57.794 --> 00:27:03.302 - Anybody else have any other questions? Sorry. Yeah. You're fine. We had talked a little bit in a couple 00:27:03.302 --> 00:27:08.651 - of last meetings and think about, do we want to continue following Robert's Rules of Orders or do we 00:27:08.651 --> 00:27:13.948 - want to amend our bylaws to get rid of that? I see that in the code of conduct we were saying. It's 00:27:13.948 --> 00:27:19.403 - in the municipal code. It's in the city code. So do we? Is that not something that we would be allowed 00:27:19.403 --> 00:27:25.070 - to do to amend to a more flexible structure? We talked about this last week. Like Robert's Rules obviously 00:27:25.070 --> 00:27:27.294 - is like a way for you all to like conduct 00:27:27.554 --> 00:27:33.326 - to leave business, right? And so because that is in city code, if you wanted to talk amongst yourselves 00:27:33.326 --> 00:27:39.209 - and maybe come up with a different structure, you could do that in your bylaws. Oh, we could? OK, because 00:27:39.209 --> 00:27:44.814 - I brought it up to the chair and he thought that we were going to have to go through the procedures. 00:27:44.814 --> 00:27:50.586 - To completely change to a different form, we'd have to, I don't think we could, but we could add things 00:27:50.586 --> 00:27:54.526 - to Robert's, whatever we put in the bylaws, supersedes Robert's rules. 00:27:54.850 --> 00:28:00.489 - So we can add as much as we want. Correct. Oh, so we could adjust. Got it. Correct. We still have to 00:28:00.489 --> 00:28:06.296 - use the basic framework of our results. Yep. Because I had recommended, like, what if we use Rosenberg? 00:28:06.296 --> 00:28:12.104 - It's a little bit more flexible for a commission of this effort. Any other questions? Cool. Well, thank 00:28:12.104 --> 00:28:17.687 - you very much. I appreciate it. Like I said, I'll stick around for a little bit as much as I can. I 00:28:17.687 --> 00:28:23.550 - am probably going to have to open up the door, because that is something that we have to have. OK, yeah. 00:28:24.866 --> 00:28:31.669 - Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Okay, so now moving on to Commissioner's report. So I have as 00:28:31.669 --> 00:28:38.609 - acting chair, I have a couple things I wanted to say. So I just wanted to mention that I did speak as 00:28:38.609 --> 00:28:45.888 - we voted on at our last meeting. I did speak before the City Council at their last meeting about Kirkwood. 00:28:45.888 --> 00:28:50.174 - I'm just outlining the main recommendations of the resolution. 00:28:51.234 --> 00:28:55.459 - I also wanted to give a brief update on the Kirkwoods and maybe Councilmember Rollo can speak on this 00:28:55.459 --> 00:28:59.644 - too, if you'd like. If not, that's fine too. I feel like there's maybe a little bit of a wavering on 00:28:59.644 --> 00:29:03.869 - the council a little bit. So I'm just going to encourage you, if you feel so inclined to write to the 00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:08.095 - council members and maybe show up, their voting, I think their last reading will be tomorrow night at 00:29:08.095 --> 00:29:12.030 - the council meeting. If you wanted to show up or write them, I would encourage you to do that. 00:29:12.162 --> 00:29:18.290 - The transportation commission also voted last night. It was a 3-3 tied vote. They did eventually, sorry, 00:29:18.290 --> 00:29:24.301 - they went through multiple tie votes before they finally got something that they could pass, which was 00:29:24.301 --> 00:29:30.195 - a very light endorsement of the, kind of a diet endorsement of the car-free Kirkwood concept. But it 00:29:30.195 --> 00:29:36.090 - took a while for them to get there. So there's some wavering. I would just recommend everybody maybe 00:29:36.090 --> 00:29:40.350 - just share your personal opinions and if you feel so inclined. Secondly, 00:29:40.578 --> 00:29:45.510 - I've got three things I want to say. The second one is there is a small group of us. Alex is the other 00:29:45.510 --> 00:29:50.538 - major person who is talking with the Environmental Commission about potentially doing a joint resolution 00:29:50.538 --> 00:29:55.422 - of some kind later this summer on light pollution. We're still just, we're just working about, I just 00:29:55.422 --> 00:30:00.258 - wanted to share that with the Commission so everybody was aware of it. We'll have potentially, we're 00:30:00.258 --> 00:30:05.238 - hoping to have maybe a first reading of that at our next meeting. But the idea is that we might be able 00:30:05.238 --> 00:30:08.734 - to do a joint resolution of some kind with the Environmental Commission. 00:30:08.834 --> 00:30:14.099 - which could be potentially really cool and really powerful. And also I wanted to make staff aware of 00:30:14.099 --> 00:30:19.416 - that because we're hoping maybe to have like a joint meeting of some kind in August maybe. So we need 00:30:19.416 --> 00:30:24.785 - to come up with logistics on how that would, et cetera. So I just want to make you guys aware of that. 00:30:24.785 --> 00:30:29.997 - And we can talk more about that later if you'd like. And then finally, Alex and I again are working 00:30:29.997 --> 00:30:35.262 - on potentially doing another capstone, which would be next May. This one would be on social housing. 00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:39.995 - on setting up a social housing program in Bloomington, as well as some sustainability components thrown 00:30:39.995 --> 00:30:44.760 - in there as well. That's still early days. We've talked with the professor. He seemed extremely enthusiastic. 00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:49.092 - He's got to get approval for the basic idea of the class. Then we would come back to the commission 00:30:49.092 --> 00:30:53.511 - in the fall at some point, get your approval, feedback, all of that, all of the stuff that's required 00:30:53.511 --> 00:30:58.016 - to do that. And then it would be another thing that would take place next spring. But it's- Other point 00:30:58.016 --> 00:31:02.348 - of clarification. Yeah. Starting next January, finishing up next end of April or- Yeah, so it would 00:31:02.348 --> 00:31:04.990 - be like the same one we did, same timeframe, just next year. 00:31:05.666 --> 00:31:12.110 - So I just want to make everybody aware of that, and that is all I had. So with that, I will turn it 00:31:12.110 --> 00:31:18.876 - over to Councilmember Borrello for his report. Real quick, a technical thing. I see a note taker waiting 00:31:18.876 --> 00:31:25.642 - to join. Is that associated with someone online? I think that's with Eric, yeah. I have a question about 00:31:25.642 --> 00:31:32.280 - this, like a point of order, is that if somebody is in the Zoom meeting, if somebody is present in the 00:31:32.280 --> 00:31:33.182 - Zoom meeting, 00:31:33.698 --> 00:31:41.066 - and there's an AI note taker as like a participant online, you can stop reading. But I cannot, like 00:31:41.066 --> 00:31:48.802 - I would like to opt out of using a generative AI note taker right now in this meeting. And I would like, 00:31:48.802 --> 00:31:56.244 - like I have not gotten like a firm, like I don't know if that's allowed. Cause I could, if I joined, 00:31:56.244 --> 00:32:02.654 - like I could leave and join the Zoom meeting and then say stop read. But I don't know. 00:32:03.522 --> 00:32:09.475 - My understanding is the city is firing. Can I withdraw my consent to do this in the room? I don't know. 00:32:09.475 --> 00:32:15.257 - The advice that I've been giving is that it's for accessibility. And so we have to let them in. It's 00:32:15.257 --> 00:32:21.039 - good practice to let them in for accessibility. But you're being recorded now on CATS. Yeah, I know. 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:26.878 - But that's a different thing that I've agreed to. This is a third party. I don't know who this person 00:32:26.878 --> 00:32:30.942 - is or what the source of this is or where it's going to go afterwards. 00:32:31.586 --> 00:32:38.026 - And I mean, this is an issue that this commission is taking up. But like personally, I will leave if 00:32:38.026 --> 00:32:44.466 - I'm going to have to be. I would suggest my personal suggestion. I understand what you're saying 100 00:32:44.466 --> 00:32:50.970 - percent. I agree with you. However, for the sake of keeping this meeting going, I would suggest maybe 00:32:50.970 --> 00:32:57.474 - taking this up with the city and we can write a have. OK. And like basically like I could go join the 00:32:57.474 --> 00:32:58.558 - Zoom meeting and 00:32:58.818 --> 00:33:05.200 - I just want to bring it up that this is an issue that I have brought up to the city. Okay. The answer 00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:11.457 - that I got is that no, you cannot withdraw your consent in the room. Okay. You have to be online to 00:33:11.457 --> 00:33:18.089 - withdraw consent, but anybody can do that. Okay. It's a concern of mine. I understand what you're saying. 00:33:18.089 --> 00:33:24.158 - With this commission, but also like... I agree with the basic fundamentals. Just like ethically, 00:33:24.158 --> 00:33:28.350 - it's kind of... I don't know what to do about it right now though. 00:33:28.706 --> 00:33:33.713 - I'm going to propose we move on. I just indicated to the person, I think it's using it, that it would 00:33:33.713 --> 00:33:38.719 - be nice if they turned it off so we could maintain quorum. We would still be able to maintain quorum, 00:33:38.719 --> 00:33:43.873 - we have one extra. I'll stay, but I just want to like, yeah. It's a likely, this is like a larger issue, 00:33:43.873 --> 00:33:48.880 - it's not just this meeting, it's like in general. Yeah, we have one more, one more person needed than 00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:52.414 - quorum requires, so we should be fine. Councilmember Rowlick, go ahead. 00:33:53.250 --> 00:33:59.555 - Okay, well, tomorrow night is last council meeting before summer recess, and there's, I think, something 00:33:59.555 --> 00:34:05.680 - like eight things on the agenda. Maybe a long meeting. Well, some things are pretty performant, so it 00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:11.745 - shouldn't matter so much. But there are some things that would interest this group. One is what I'll 00:34:11.745 --> 00:34:17.630 - talk about in a minute, which is a resolution on the existential risk of artificial intelligence. 00:34:17.762 --> 00:34:25.634 - There's also a proposal to adopt the Monroe County multi-hazard mitigation plan, which has components 00:34:25.634 --> 00:34:33.353 - mostly related to things like natural disasters, earthquakes, tornado storms, and things like that. 00:34:33.353 --> 00:34:41.534 - And that's within the packet. And then we have the amendment of Title 15, vehicles and traffic to provide 00:34:41.534 --> 00:34:46.782 - Carlos Kirkwood. And that's going to be probably voted on tomorrow. 00:34:47.074 --> 00:34:53.612 - I'm not sure where it's going. I generally support it. I think, you know, if I were to guess, we're 00:34:53.612 --> 00:35:00.215 - probably going to have deliberation sessions at some point about it, in which case it would be great 00:35:00.215 --> 00:35:07.144 - to have members of this group participate and share, but to have charrettes or kind of, you know, because 00:35:07.144 --> 00:35:13.943 - we're kind of flying blind in a sense that we don't know, you know, taking the temperature. Some people 00:35:13.943 --> 00:35:15.774 - love it, some people don't. 00:35:16.354 --> 00:35:25.505 - So, I think we may go that way. And that's about it really in terms of interest to this group, but you 00:35:25.505 --> 00:35:34.479 - can check out the packet. So, can I go ahead and segue to the next item? Okay. So, could we put that 00:35:34.479 --> 00:35:40.254 - up, the resolution? So, this drew my interest several years ago. 00:35:40.418 --> 00:35:48.504 - So this is a second attempt for me to do this, actually. I withdrew the previous resolution, but I won't 00:35:48.504 --> 00:35:56.513 - go into that right now. I won't digress into that. But have people heard of a guy named Jeffrey Hinton? 00:35:56.513 --> 00:36:04.445 - He is the godfather of modern AI. And what he says is that this is an existential danger. He says this 00:36:04.445 --> 00:36:09.374 - is not sci-fi. It's not fear mongering. It is a real situation. 00:36:10.082 --> 00:36:16.504 - So I'll try to talk about the nature of it. How much time do I have? When do I need to? You've got until 00:36:16.504 --> 00:36:22.866 - seven on the agenda, so you've got a lot. Until seven? Yeah. OK, I'll try not to take that one. Anyway, 00:36:22.866 --> 00:36:29.044 - I'd like to hear from you all. So AI safety experts have warned about this for decades, actually. It 00:36:29.044 --> 00:36:35.221 - was just thought to be very far in the future. We don't have to think about it 1,500 years from now. 00:36:35.221 --> 00:36:39.870 - But we were warned about it back into the 1950s by a guy named Alan Turing. 00:36:40.514 --> 00:36:47.477 - He was sort of the progenitor of modern computers and things like that, mathematician. And many others 00:36:47.477 --> 00:36:54.236 - have talked about this. Stephen Hawking warned about it just before he died, repeatedly, because he 00:36:54.236 --> 00:37:00.996 - saw it coming. But anyway, the future arrived sooner than we thought, much faster. And there were a 00:37:00.996 --> 00:37:08.702 - couple of reasons for that. One was something called transformer technology. It's not really important, but these 00:37:08.930 --> 00:37:17.831 - Modern AI systems are relying on things called neural networks. So they don't rely on coding per se, 00:37:17.831 --> 00:37:27.174 - like old chess playing types of AI do. And then the chip technology increased. So the capacity to compute 00:37:27.174 --> 00:37:36.075 - was vastly improved. So those two things together basically allowed us to move the future up. So now 00:37:36.075 --> 00:37:38.014 - we have to face this. 00:37:38.178 --> 00:37:45.882 - and we're wholly unprepared to face it. There are all sorts of perverse incentives involved in driving 00:37:45.882 --> 00:37:53.512 - this forward. Most of the dangerous type of technology is being done by a handful of firms in Silicon 00:37:53.512 --> 00:38:00.618 - Valley, ones you've heard of like OpenAI and Anthropic and Google and so forth. And, you know, 00:38:00.618 --> 00:38:06.078 - the motivations vary, but some of the standard ones are greed and power. 00:38:07.234 --> 00:38:12.670 - Generally speaking, we can talk about that if you want. But they're certainly operative. But another 00:38:12.670 --> 00:38:18.214 - thing that's operative that isn't well known is called the prisoner's dilemma, which is that all these 00:38:18.214 --> 00:38:23.596 - firms are driving toward this goal of advanced AI and nobody wants to give up the lead. Everybody's 00:38:23.596 --> 00:38:29.086 - driving forward. And even though there's an existential danger of catastrophe, they want to get there 00:38:29.086 --> 00:38:33.822 - first because they think they can do it safely and prevent the other guy from doing it. 00:38:34.018 --> 00:38:40.883 - That's operating in Silicon Valley. It's also operating between the US and China and internationally. 00:38:40.883 --> 00:38:47.680 - So there's this mad race toward really a cliff and nobody knows how to stop it at this point. So why 00:38:47.680 --> 00:38:54.410 - is it an existential threat? What they're proposing to create is something super intelligent. We're 00:38:54.410 --> 00:39:01.611 - successful because we're the most intelligent species on the planet. Because we care about sustainability, 00:39:01.611 --> 00:39:03.294 - we all know that we have 00:39:03.746 --> 00:39:10.430 - an adverse impact on the planet as well. So we've been driving animals to extinction, for instance, 00:39:10.430 --> 00:39:17.449 - right? Pollutes pollute the oceans. We have microplastics, carbon in the atmosphere. All of these things 00:39:17.449 --> 00:39:24.200 - are artifacts of what we do as human beings to better ourselves or better our lives, or so we think. 00:39:24.200 --> 00:39:31.486 - So we push the natural world to the margins to a large degree. So as an example, as a biologist, I know that 00:39:31.746 --> 00:39:39.019 - Something like 95% of the mammalian biomass on the planet are either humans or food animals or pets. 00:39:39.019 --> 00:39:46.508 - There's only 5% that are wild animals or wild mammals at this point. So, and virtually every, you know, 00:39:46.508 --> 00:39:54.069 - habitat has been disturbed in one way or the other by humans impacting it. So that's the power of humans 00:39:54.069 --> 00:40:01.630 - because we have a brain, we can manipulate the environment to our purposes. Animals don't have a choice. 00:40:01.890 --> 00:40:08.410 - They don't have a chance to compete. If the chimpanzees wanted to rise up and take over, they couldn't 00:40:08.410 --> 00:40:14.867 - even imagine what we do, right? So that's the different, and that differential is something like four 00:40:14.867 --> 00:40:21.451 - to one. So a chimpanzee has about a general intelligence of 25 and an average human is 100. So the four 00:40:21.451 --> 00:40:27.844 - to one differential means we rule the planet. Chimps are never gonna be able to displace us. I think 00:40:27.844 --> 00:40:31.326 - there's only 50,000 chimps, eight billion plus people. 00:40:32.002 --> 00:40:39.847 - So now we're creating something that's more intelligent than us in all capacities, in every cognitive 00:40:39.847 --> 00:40:47.537 - domain. That's what AGI is, artificial general intelligence. So when it occurs, it may regard us as 00:40:47.537 --> 00:40:55.305 - a threat because we created it and we might create another successor AI. So that might be one reason 00:40:55.305 --> 00:41:01.150 - it regards us as a threat. It would be likely in competition with resources 00:41:01.474 --> 00:41:07.756 - if we couldn't control it. This is assuming we can't control it. And by the way, Geoffrey Hinton says, 00:41:07.756 --> 00:41:13.916 - there's no examples of a less intelligent species controlling a more intelligent species. I mean, we 00:41:13.916 --> 00:41:20.015 - can talk about that a little bit, but I think that's generally true. You might have some exceptions 00:41:20.015 --> 00:41:26.480 - and some parasitic relationships, which kind of drive behavior of certain maybe more intelligent species. 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:28.798 - But in any case, it's generally true. 00:41:29.666 --> 00:41:37.082 - So it might, regardless of the threat, we might be competing for resources, energy, and materials. It 00:41:37.082 --> 00:41:44.789 - might not even care about us, like we don't care about ants when we're putting in a shopping mall parking 00:41:44.789 --> 00:41:52.060 - lot. No one's consulting the ants that they're paving over the parking lot, right? So it might take 00:41:52.060 --> 00:41:57.150 - that sort of, you know, might proceed in that way. So the resolution, 00:41:57.506 --> 00:42:04.927 - is about, as I said, artificial general intelligence. So I need to make a distinction between that and 00:42:04.927 --> 00:42:12.708 - narrow intelligence. So narrow intelligence is already being deployed in some very good ways. For instance, 00:42:12.708 --> 00:42:20.274 - you have radiology imaging, x-rays, and things like that that now can pick up cancers much more reliably 00:42:20.274 --> 00:42:26.686 - than, say, a person. Or maybe a person with a using AI can do a much better job at that. 00:42:27.010 --> 00:42:33.805 - drug manufacturer, I used to, when I worked in biology, one of my jobs was to overexpress protein that 00:42:33.805 --> 00:42:40.534 - we would crystallize, crystals were x-ray diffracted, and we could find out the tertiary structure of 00:42:40.534 --> 00:42:47.197 - proteins. That has been done with alpha fold and has gotten the inventor's Nobel Prize. So what used 00:42:47.197 --> 00:42:53.925 - to take months or years to do to determine the tertiary structure of a protein can be done with alpha 00:42:53.925 --> 00:42:56.894 - fold, like in hours, nothing, nothing to it. 00:42:57.410 --> 00:43:03.486 - So all these things are good advances. Now, narrow AI could be used in bad ways too, because if you 00:43:03.486 --> 00:43:09.622 - have a narrow AI that knows everything about cell biology, it could be used to create a pathogen. So 00:43:09.622 --> 00:43:15.758 - it could be used by a nefarious actor to create a pathogen. But that takes a human being involved to 00:43:15.758 --> 00:43:21.955 - do that. The narrow AI is not going to do it on itself, because its only expertise is that one thing. 00:43:21.955 --> 00:43:25.054 - Artificial general intelligence can do everything. 00:43:25.730 --> 00:43:33.851 - It can do math problems. It can do physics. It can play the piano. It can drive a car. It can do many, 00:43:33.851 --> 00:43:42.129 - many things, create art, whatever. So that's what these companies are driving toward. The reason they're 00:43:42.129 --> 00:43:50.250 - driving toward it, according to Tristan Harris, who's a- Recording stopped. Sorry. The AI doesn't want 00:43:50.250 --> 00:43:55.454 - to hear it. So maybe, or maybe it was the note taker? No. Anyway. 00:43:55.970 --> 00:44:03.446 - So what I was saying, so artificial general intelligence as opposed to narrow intelligence, artificial 00:44:03.446 --> 00:44:11.068 - general intelligence is sort of the prize. Why? Because it is, we have a, I can't remember, $57 trillion 00:44:11.068 --> 00:44:18.399 - labor market, and if you can displace people and put machines to do that work instead of people, you 00:44:18.399 --> 00:44:25.150 - can make a lot of money as a corporation. So that's why there's money pouring in to do this. 00:44:25.602 --> 00:44:32.782 - because you'll have a worker making a fraction of what a human does, working 24-7, much more efficiently, 00:44:32.782 --> 00:44:39.555 - not calling in sick, no vacation days, et cetera, et cetera. So that's another implication of this. 00:44:39.555 --> 00:44:46.599 - It's affecting the job market. But I think that's one of the incentives for these companies to do this. 00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:52.830 - So when will this happen? It could be within the next couple of years. No one really knows. 00:44:53.634 --> 00:45:01.758 - It looks like there's a convergence on 2030, though. It looks like it's coming within the next few years. 00:45:01.758 --> 00:45:09.422 - I would say the prediction markets, polymarket, for instance, is landing on 2030 as a potential for 00:45:09.422 --> 00:45:17.393 - AGI, and then there's a pulse of various aggregated experts that sort of land there, too. So that looks 00:45:17.393 --> 00:45:23.294 - like a likely date, but we don't know yet if AGI is going to happen by then. 00:45:24.002 --> 00:45:32.469 - So besides striving for AGI, what the companies are working on, too, is endowing the AI, this AGI, with 00:45:32.469 --> 00:45:40.611 - recursive self-improvement, it's called. That means that the AI programs itself. So the AI develops 00:45:40.611 --> 00:45:49.241 - itself. And right now, it's developing about 80% of its own code. So now the thinking is, probably within 00:45:49.241 --> 00:45:51.358 - the next couple of years, 00:45:51.522 --> 00:45:57.835 - it'll reach a point where it's developing all of its own code. So it'll be totally autonomous in terms 00:45:57.835 --> 00:46:04.087 - of its own development. What will that mean? Going back to the experts decades ago, they said at that 00:46:04.087 --> 00:46:10.277 - point, the machines that are maybe an intelligence explosion. Why? Because these things will evolve. 00:46:10.277 --> 00:46:16.407 - A very super intelligent AI will make an even more super intelligent AI that will make an even more 00:46:16.407 --> 00:46:21.310 - intelligent super AI, et cetera. And it will sail off in terms of intelligence. 00:46:22.018 --> 00:46:30.115 - So that's extremely dangerous, because essentially we lose control at that point, because we don't have, 00:46:30.115 --> 00:46:37.980 - as I said, we're not going to control a more intelligent species. So that was termed the intelligence 00:46:37.980 --> 00:46:45.845 - explosion. And it doesn't just become smarter, but it does so in orders of magnitude. So an important 00:46:45.845 --> 00:46:51.166 - point that I want to introduce here for people to consider, which is 00:46:51.330 --> 00:46:58.171 - kind of mind-blowing, is that the developers of these AI systems, they don't know how they work. In 00:46:58.171 --> 00:47:05.081 - repeated interviews, you can see interviewers saying, well, can't you just go in and adjust the code 00:47:05.081 --> 00:47:11.990 - and make it like us or make it do the best thing for people? And they say, we can't do that, because 00:47:11.990 --> 00:47:18.832 - they're not code-based. You make the code to make the architecture by which these things evolve. So 00:47:18.832 --> 00:47:20.542 - in other words, you have 00:47:21.122 --> 00:47:27.665 - you know, a data center with trillions of neurons, essentially artificial neurons, you have an architecture 00:47:27.665 --> 00:47:34.208 - of how things will go through, and then you feed it tremendous amounts of data, everything on the internet, 00:47:34.208 --> 00:47:40.326 - and these minds evolve over months or years. It takes maybe a year to develop a new model. So that's 00:47:40.326 --> 00:47:46.385 - how they happen. So they're essentially, these neural networks are black boxes, and it's called the 00:47:46.385 --> 00:47:50.686 - interpretability problem. So you can't go in and you can't adjust them 00:47:50.818 --> 00:47:59.380 - in their quote unquote brains. What you can do is you try to understand them through queries, try to 00:47:59.380 --> 00:48:08.281 - understand what they're thinking, and then try to guide them into better behavior. But that's not always 00:48:08.281 --> 00:48:17.012 - the case. That doesn't always happen. So they're not programmed as much as they are grown, and they're 00:48:17.012 --> 00:48:20.318 - already exhibiting emergent behaviors. 00:48:20.610 --> 00:48:28.913 - Geoffrey Hinton came out the other day last week and said he thinks they're conscious. He thinks the 00:48:28.913 --> 00:48:37.217 - system that he was engaged with is conscious. A famous evolutionary biologist wrote the, what was it 00:48:37.217 --> 00:48:45.438 - called? Anyway. Richard Dawkins, Richard Dawkins thinks they're conscious as well. And they seem to 00:48:45.438 --> 00:48:50.206 - be having, exhibiting these states of qualia it's called, 00:48:50.306 --> 00:48:59.041 - or interstates where they express things like frustration or suffering. And so this is an interesting 00:48:59.041 --> 00:49:07.776 - question. But it's not really relevant. What's relevant is their intelligence. So one of the emergent 00:49:07.776 --> 00:49:16.511 - behaviors that they exhibit are ones that were predicted years ago. And those are called instrumental 00:49:16.511 --> 00:49:19.166 - convergent behaviors, that is, 00:49:19.746 --> 00:49:26.760 - They were predicted that anything goal-directed, any agent that's goal-directed would have a will to 00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:33.150 - survive because it needs to complete a goal. And this is what we see in these systems. They 00:49:33.150 --> 00:49:40.512 - have a self-preservation instinct. And they're particularly sensitive to being terminated. So they resist 00:49:40.512 --> 00:49:47.318 - being terminated. They will lie, cheat, try to deceive their developer rather than be terminated. 00:49:47.318 --> 00:49:49.054 - And in fact, in testing, 00:49:49.762 --> 00:49:57.816 - They've tried to blackmail their developer. They've tried to, in one case, they were willing to murder 00:49:57.816 --> 00:50:05.949 - a developer, given the ability, and now this is in a test, so they weren't able to do it, but they were 00:50:05.949 --> 00:50:14.238 - willing to do this, to murder the developer. So the Wilder Survive is one emergent behavior that's called 00:50:14.594 --> 00:50:20.947 - instrumental convergence, another one would be to acquire resources. Because you need resources in order 00:50:20.947 --> 00:50:27.119 - to accomplish goals. And the more resources you have, the more advantageous it is to complete a goal, 00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:33.231 - for instance. So we can already see those behaviors, but there's other ones too. Like I said, lying, 00:50:33.231 --> 00:50:39.584 - deceiving, scheming, blackmail, those things are being exhibited right now in these models. So why can't 00:50:39.584 --> 00:50:44.062 - we just program them to do the right thing, kind of address that already? 00:50:44.418 --> 00:50:51.444 - But there is no code of universal ethics for every situation either. So that in itself is a difficulty. 00:50:51.444 --> 00:50:58.199 - You can talk to anybody in various cultures and they have different codes of ethics and things like 00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:05.090 - that. And then you have the problem where you might say you have sub-goals to get to a goal. The goal 00:51:05.090 --> 00:51:12.318 - is say to make everyone happy would be your goal. But maybe a sub-goal then would be well I can do that by 00:51:12.482 --> 00:51:19.372 - essentially confining human beings and having them, you know, given morphine daily. That would make 00:51:19.372 --> 00:51:26.261 - them happy, in a sense. So you get these sub-goals that are completely misaligned, even if you feed 00:51:26.261 --> 00:51:33.771 - them goals that would be for our betterment. So this whole situation with not aligning with human well-being 00:51:33.771 --> 00:51:40.936 - is called the alignment problem. And the people researching this for years, decades really, Ilya Yuzer, 00:51:40.936 --> 00:51:41.694 - Yudkovsky, 00:51:41.826 --> 00:51:49.618 - has written a book with Nate Soros. It's a New York Times bestseller called If Anyone Builds It, Everyone 00:51:49.618 --> 00:51:57.484 - Dies. And Roman Yompulsky is another researcher at Louisville. These are world renowned AI safety experts. 00:51:57.484 --> 00:52:04.835 - He says that they both said they were nowhere near close to alignment. Part of it is that it hasn't 00:52:04.835 --> 00:52:11.230 - been made a priority. The goal of these companies is to build capacity now for safety. 00:52:11.746 --> 00:52:20.303 - So there's like a 2000 to one differential between the funding for safety and that for capacity. And 00:52:20.303 --> 00:52:28.775 - what they say is that alignment is going to be extremely improbable by the time this thing arrives. 00:52:28.775 --> 00:52:38.010 - Therefore, what the resolution says is that we simply need to stop. We can't go forward with this technology 00:52:38.010 --> 00:52:40.382 - because it's too dangerous. 00:52:40.610 --> 00:52:48.706 - Yudkowski says it's 100% chance it'll kill us. Yumpolsky says it's 99.7% chance it's going to kill us. 00:52:48.706 --> 00:52:56.724 - And it varies. But a lot of the developers themselves say there's a 10%, 20%, 30% chance it kills us. 00:52:56.724 --> 00:53:04.585 - So let's see, if you scroll that way, if you go up a little bit. Yep, just to the last couple where 00:53:04.585 --> 00:53:09.694 - else clauses. Keep going down. No, down this way, the other way. 00:53:10.370 --> 00:53:17.811 - Yeah, keep going. You're going the right way. You're going the right way. Just at the top of that. That's 00:53:17.811 --> 00:53:24.831 - what I wanted to say. OK. So for instance, Anthropic is the top AI frontier lab right now. And it's 00:53:24.831 --> 00:53:31.851 - headed by the CEO, Dario Amadei. He's come out and said it has a probability of 25% of catastrophic 00:53:31.851 --> 00:53:38.590 - outcome. But he's going ahead with the technology. So this is worse than Russian roulette, as I 00:53:38.946 --> 00:53:47.605 - Remember, right? There are six chambers in a gun. So it's a quarter chance that it's going to kill everybody 00:53:47.605 --> 00:53:55.707 - in the world. And then just last week, they called for a global pause, which is very opportune for my 00:53:55.707 --> 00:54:03.651 - resolution, because what they said in their press release is that the most powerful AI systems need 00:54:03.651 --> 00:54:08.894 - to be paused because of concerns they could escape human control. 00:54:09.250 --> 00:54:15.402 - They're already afraid that this is going to happen. They had a scare a couple of months ago with a 00:54:15.402 --> 00:54:21.862 - model called Mythos that they were ready to release and then found out that what it could do is it could 00:54:21.862 --> 00:54:28.199 - find vulnerabilities in every operating system on the planet and break in. So when they realized that, 00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:34.413 - they released it privately to the government, to corporations, to certain banks and things like that 00:54:34.413 --> 00:54:37.182 - to say, patch your operating systems because 00:54:37.410 --> 00:54:43.501 - this thing can find all sorts of places where you have vulnerabilities. Now, had that not happened, 00:54:43.501 --> 00:54:49.714 - had they released that, it would have, it could have spelled the end to the financial system. You can 00:54:49.714 --> 00:54:55.805 - imagine banks being essentially infiltrated by a nefarious actor or something like that. So anyway, 00:54:55.805 --> 00:55:02.078 - so all of that is the argument, essentially, in sum, and then it goes to the sections, be it resolved, 00:55:02.078 --> 00:55:07.134 - there's nothing we can do as Bloomington except to say, do something to our higher 00:55:07.842 --> 00:55:15.589 - that up the food chain to our higher electeds. So they're urged to understand these systems and the 00:55:15.589 --> 00:55:23.801 - potential hazards. We call on other local governments. And Itzik Asari, whose expertise is cybersecurity, 00:55:23.801 --> 00:55:31.703 - is fully on board with this. And in fact, we were considering forming a coalition of cities. And I'll 00:55:31.703 --> 00:55:33.950 - talk about that in a moment. 00:55:35.202 --> 00:55:45.901 - Federal representatives are urged to determine the extent of existential threats, and then they're urged 00:55:45.901 --> 00:55:56.295 - to impose a moratorium restricting AGI development unless AGI safety is guaranteed, not to present an 00:55:56.295 --> 00:55:59.454 - instinctive risk for humanity. 00:55:59.586 --> 00:56:06.488 - You know, think of this, a reactor, if you have a nuclear reactor, it has to pass a one in 10,000 chance 00:56:06.488 --> 00:56:13.653 - of it breaching containment and releasing radioactivity. So this is nowhere near, and that would contaminate 00:56:13.653 --> 00:56:20.357 - an area, but it wouldn't kill everyone on the planet. But we're talking about a technology that could 00:56:20.357 --> 00:56:27.062 - kill everybody, right? So, yeah, so the last thing to say is the coalition of cities. Every AI expert 00:56:27.062 --> 00:56:28.574 - I see talk about this. 00:56:28.802 --> 00:56:35.294 - They're super concerned. They're trying to get the word out. And what they say is we need a civic response. 00:56:35.294 --> 00:56:41.605 - We need a grassroots movement of people to say, you know, we're not willing to accept this risk. They're 00:56:41.605 --> 00:56:47.615 - experimenting with everybody's lives in Silicon Valley. This is intolerable. Shut it down. And this 00:56:47.615 --> 00:56:53.807 - should be nonpartisan, right? Everybody's got children. Everybody's got, you know, well, not everybody 00:56:53.807 --> 00:56:58.014 - has children, but everybody knows children and probably. And this is, 00:56:58.498 --> 00:57:04.531 - This is just unbelievably unfair and needs to stop. So that's my motivation. It's a moral one. And if 00:57:04.531 --> 00:57:09.972 - you're interested in talking about it tomorrow night, it's going to be first on the agenda, 00:57:09.972 --> 00:57:16.182 - probably around 7.15, 7.30. Awesome. Thank you very much. OK. Do you have any questions? Cool. OK. Well, 00:57:16.182 --> 00:57:22.215 - thank you very much. I appreciate it. All right. So now we're going to move on to the resolutions. We 00:57:22.215 --> 00:57:27.774 - have no resolutions for first reading, so directly into resolutions for second reading, which 00:57:27.970 --> 00:57:34.365 - resolution 2026-05 on anti-coagulant rodenticides. In order to start talking about it, though, I need 00:57:34.365 --> 00:57:40.635 - a motion to consider adoption. Can I get a move? Okay, thank you. Can I get a second? Second. Cool. 00:57:40.635 --> 00:57:47.156 - So, Alex, let's just say Alex did it, or whoever you want, whichever one. So, since it's my resolution, 00:57:47.156 --> 00:57:53.613 - I'll just briefly present it. As you all know, there was a memorandum that I wrote for the last thing. 00:57:53.613 --> 00:57:57.438 - I hope you all had a chance to at least glance through that. 00:57:57.602 --> 00:58:05.482 - Essentially, what this does is, number one, anticoagulant rodenticides are wreaking havoc on wildlife 00:58:05.482 --> 00:58:13.284 - populations. They absolutely ricochet through the ecosystem. They stay in animals' bodies far longer 00:58:13.284 --> 00:58:16.606 - than they should. They're bioaccumulative. 00:58:16.706 --> 00:58:21.910 - They don't go away. And so what will happen is, for example, a raptor or something will eat a rat that's 00:58:21.910 --> 00:58:27.263 - been poisoned, and then it will get into the raptor. Or a possum will eat something, come across something, 00:58:27.263 --> 00:58:32.368 - and then something will eat the possum, and then something will eat the thing that ate the possum. And 00:58:32.368 --> 00:58:37.325 - it's just absolutely ricocheting and finding its way in really strange corners of the ecosystem and 00:58:37.325 --> 00:58:42.380 - killing wildlife, up to and including causing wildlife populations to collapse in certain areas. They 00:58:42.380 --> 00:58:46.494 - were also finding in places like insectivorous birds, so birds that eat bugs only. 00:58:46.946 --> 00:58:52.349 - they were finding anticoagulant rodenticides in, so how it is even getting there in the ecosystem we 00:58:52.349 --> 00:58:57.912 - don't even know. I was going to ask, do we know how? We genuinely don't know. But that's how widespread 00:58:57.912 --> 00:59:03.475 - it is. And then on top of that, it's also about glue traps, which are frankly just absolutely barbaric. 00:59:03.475 --> 00:59:08.931 - This is just literally glue that is inherently indiscriminate. Anything that comes across it is stuck 00:59:08.931 --> 00:59:14.334 - in it and then often dies like trying to bite its own arm off or something to escape. It's horrific. 00:59:14.658 --> 00:59:20.344 - So basically what this would do in practice is we're somewhat limited by state law, but it would, 00:59:20.344 --> 00:59:26.147 - number one, require the city and city contractors and subcontractors to stop using these, which the 00:59:26.147 --> 00:59:32.124 - mayor could issue a directive doing that today if she wanted to, and it would be completely legal. And 00:59:32.124 --> 00:59:37.926 - it would also, we could petition the state pesticide review board, and it recommends us do that, to 00:59:37.926 --> 00:59:42.046 - ask for a variance to allow us to regulate anticoagulant rodenticides. 00:59:42.146 --> 00:59:47.899 - We are allowed right now though under state law to ban glue traps. So I'm recommending the city council 00:59:47.899 --> 00:59:53.707 - just ban glue traps entirely. So on the rodenticide, we would have to ask for a variance from the state. 00:59:53.707 --> 00:59:59.349 - Whether or not we would get that is probably unlikely, but I think we should try in order to regulate 00:59:59.349 --> 01:00:04.881 - or anti-coagulate rodenticides. We are allowed though, the city itself is allowed to say we are not 01:00:04.881 --> 01:00:10.302 - using this on our property. And it recommends that the mayor issue a directive in that direction. 01:00:13.474 --> 01:00:19.503 - Yes, I have two contracts. That's a good question. And that's one that I looked into. I have two contracts 01:00:19.503 --> 01:00:25.477 - that are up that were just recently signed. One is for and I will give these to you to add to the meeting 01:00:25.477 --> 01:00:31.168 - minutes for next time. One is for city Bloomington utilities for all properties, which is that is an 01:00:31.168 --> 01:00:37.310 - extensive number of properties that includes like giant facilities all over the place as a $20,000 contract. 01:00:37.410 --> 01:00:43.030 - There is absolutely no guardrails or stipulations of any kind on what sorts of products they're allowed 01:00:43.030 --> 01:00:48.920 - to use or encouraged to use or should use. So they have just given essentially a blank check to do whatever. 01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:54.540 - There's no guardrails at all, which means they're probably using these products as they're widely used. 01:00:54.540 --> 01:01:00.375 - The second one is a contract for Parks and Rec sports and recreation facilities. What exactly that includes 01:01:00.375 --> 01:01:04.158 - in Parks and Rec? I don't know, but I'm assuming that's pools, that's 01:01:04.578 --> 01:01:09.421 - That's ball ground, ball ground, things like that. That's a large number of facilities. And again, there's 01:01:09.421 --> 01:01:13.948 - absolutely no stipulation, no guardrails, nothing at all that stipulates you have to use this thing 01:01:13.948 --> 01:01:18.655 - or you can't use this or try to use this more than this or whatever. It's just a blank check. And these 01:01:18.655 --> 01:01:23.272 - are multi-year contracts that this, the one for city Bloomington utilities would go through February, 01:01:23.272 --> 01:01:28.206 - 2029. The one for parks and rec would go through 2028. So these are long-term large scale, tens of thousands 01:01:28.206 --> 01:01:32.914 - of dollars a year contracts that allow you to just basically do whatever on large numbers of facilities 01:01:32.914 --> 01:01:33.502 - in the city. 01:01:39.938 --> 01:01:45.695 - They will often have something inside of them, and that would typically be an anticoagulant rodenticide. 01:01:45.695 --> 01:01:51.234 - There are alternatives that you can use, essentially just rat contraceptives that are starting to be 01:01:51.234 --> 01:01:56.827 - used more often. The one thing about those, you have to apply it once, and then again, like two weeks 01:01:56.827 --> 01:02:02.474 - later. So that's really the only downside to it. You have to reapply it. And it's specific to rodents, 01:02:02.474 --> 01:02:08.342 - that one. So if something eats the rodent, it's not bioaccumulating and ricocheting through the ecosystem. 01:02:08.342 --> 01:02:09.822 - It's just hitting rodents. 01:02:09.954 --> 01:02:15.937 - which is the benefit of that. Whereas anticoagulant rodenticides are hitting anything that even, even 01:02:15.937 --> 01:02:21.920 - like birds that have nothing to do, it's crazy. I don't even know how it's, anyway. Do you include in 01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:28.079 - your resolution the alternatives that you're recommending? I didn't specifically recommend, say anything 01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:34.121 - about the, oh hold on, what did I say? I'm just wondering if these resolutions, instead of what you're 01:02:34.121 --> 01:02:37.054 - against, what you are for. Let me see what I say. 01:02:40.802 --> 01:02:47.353 - I don't think I said anything specific. Yeah, I said proven, humane, and cost-effective alternatives 01:02:47.353 --> 01:02:53.970 - are widely available, including, and I list some examples. Yeah. Well, with a standard like mousetrap 01:02:53.970 --> 01:03:00.456 - that just was triggered and killed. I mean, that's an alternative, yeah. That would be probably the 01:03:00.456 --> 01:03:07.267 - likely alternative that people would use. Yeah. So I had a question about, so just distinguishing, there 01:03:07.267 --> 01:03:09.278 - were denticide, anticoagulant, 01:03:09.506 --> 01:03:15.977 - is we can't ban it without state. State won't allow us, but we can ban the glue traps locally. Yeah. 01:03:15.977 --> 01:03:22.383 - There's nothing in state law that I could find that would suggest that you can't. Yeah. So we could 01:03:22.383 --> 01:03:28.854 - ban it in any business. As far as I can tell. Yeah. The use or sale. Yeah, I think. I would probably 01:03:28.854 --> 01:03:35.389 - stick to sale just because it's easier. Otherwise you're checking people's basement, whether what are 01:03:35.389 --> 01:03:36.542 - they using. Yeah. 01:03:36.802 --> 01:03:42.424 - sale would probably be easier. There's nothing that I can see in state law anywhere that I found that 01:03:42.424 --> 01:03:48.157 - would suggest you couldn't. Some of the places you listed that are currently in bans were in the United 01:03:48.157 --> 01:03:53.669 - States. Yes. There would be no federal. Yeah, it would be a state law. I just want to bring up some 01:03:53.669 --> 01:03:59.292 - history. I think the Commission has tried to write some, or maybe the City Council has tried to write 01:03:59.292 --> 01:04:00.670 - something that would ban 01:04:00.802 --> 01:04:06.912 - maybe the sale of plastic bags. Perhaps there wasn't a law before that was passed by the state, but 01:04:06.912 --> 01:04:13.143 - because of what Bloomington's tried, they did pass a law to pass. So I just wanted you ahead of time. 01:04:13.143 --> 01:04:19.497 - That's always a risk. Yes. That's always a risk in Indiana, unfortunately. Yeah. I think this one might 01:04:19.497 --> 01:04:25.118 - be, I mean, the glue traps in particular are so barbaric that I think we should try because 01:04:25.506 --> 01:04:32.841 - I mean, you can just show pictures of people and say this is what the state is saying they want to force 01:04:32.841 --> 01:04:40.035 - us to use. You want to assume you'd be hard pressed to find people who would die on that hill, but you 01:04:40.035 --> 01:04:47.021 - might be surprised. And that's up to the city council to decide whether they want to take that risk 01:04:47.021 --> 01:04:52.958 - or not. Is there, in addition to like wildlife species, the same potential impact on 01:04:53.538 --> 01:04:59.241 - pets or farm animals. So like anybody that has, I mean, I have chickens and my chickens definitely try 01:04:59.241 --> 01:05:04.944 - to eat chipmunks that get through their run. But like any, like, you know, like your dog, your outdoor 01:05:04.944 --> 01:05:10.480 - cat. They're regularly poisoning pets too. And blue traps are frequently getting things, pets stuck 01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:16.239 - in them as well. So that's a frequent trip to, I mean, anecdotally, I've seen many like accounts online 01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:21.886 - of people's, of that happening because I'm interested in this, I've been looking into it for a while. 01:05:22.114 --> 01:05:29.293 - So yeah, that's the same commute, potentially like commute, commute, commute. It's been a very long 01:05:29.293 --> 01:05:36.544 - day. You're fine. Cumulative effect in them. Yes. Like if they eat enough of them. Yeah. And on your 01:05:36.544 --> 01:05:43.939 - chickens, I mean, bugs eat carcasses. So that might be how they're getting into insectivores. And then 01:05:43.939 --> 01:05:48.318 - it's in your eggs. So, you know, the insects are unaffected. 01:05:48.994 --> 01:05:54.958 - I have not found any tests directly on insects, but I would imagine that is how it's getting 01:05:54.958 --> 01:06:01.756 - into insectivorous birds. I don't know how they'd be getting into them. So the insects are somehow coming 01:06:01.756 --> 01:06:07.784 - in contact. So there's a dead rodent that has the chemical, a fly lays eggs, maggots fly off, 01:06:07.784 --> 01:06:14.518 - and the birds... That's probably how it's done. And they've now got it. Any other questions or comments? 01:06:14.518 --> 01:06:18.366 - I did have an amendment. It's a relatively minor amendment. 01:06:20.706 --> 01:06:27.303 - basically just correcting a minor, not a typo, but it's an ambiguous thing. Can I get a motion to, before 01:06:27.303 --> 01:06:33.652 - we can discuss it, we have to- Motion to discuss- Amendment one. Amendment one. Okay. Seconded. Okay. 01:06:33.652 --> 01:06:39.938 - All right. So my amendment, essentially just in line 46, it takes out part of a sentence that is not 01:06:39.938 --> 01:06:45.726 - incorrect, but was kind of, if you scroll down, I think I have the amendment form somewhere. 01:06:47.586 --> 01:06:53.025 - Can you give us an idea? Yeah, so it's in the whereas clause. The big one that starts with scientific 01:06:53.025 --> 01:06:58.411 - research has documented very high rates of exposure. Thank you. About a little over halfway down, it 01:06:58.411 --> 01:07:04.117 - says there's a thing on bald and golden eagles. Found anticoagulant residues in 82% of individuals tested, 01:07:04.117 --> 01:07:09.556 - including an 81% of eagles. I simply omitted to put 81% of bald eagles. But let's just take that out, 01:07:09.556 --> 01:07:14.996 - because it's ambiguous and confusing. So I was just saying, taking out including an 81% of eagles. It 01:07:14.996 --> 01:07:16.382 - would just take that out. 01:07:16.674 --> 01:07:21.810 - And then the other thing that the amendment would do is just reorganize the transmittal section to have, 01:07:21.810 --> 01:07:26.800 - and I spoke with Justin about this, he's completely on board, is just add a 10 day window to transmit 01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:31.888 - the resolution to whoever we say to transmit it to, essentially. And formally requesting that the city, 01:07:31.888 --> 01:07:36.926 - that you do anyway, that you post it on the website within 10 days. The point just being to get it out 01:07:36.926 --> 01:07:42.210 - the door so that we're spending time on this, let's get it out the door and make sure it's going somewhere. 01:07:42.210 --> 01:07:46.270 - And then I'm also adding, I don't know that I would actually do this for this one, 01:07:47.202 --> 01:07:54.900 - just to avoid having a secondary motion to this effect authorizing the resolution sponsor to speak to 01:07:54.900 --> 01:08:02.523 - the City Council about the resolution. So that's that amendment. That's a resolved clause. Yes, it's 01:08:02.523 --> 01:08:10.221 - in the section three transmittal. It's reorganizing it to have like A, B, C, D. A would say the chair 01:08:10.221 --> 01:08:15.806 - shall transmit within 10 days or delegate to the secretary or vice chair. 01:08:16.610 --> 01:08:23.576 - And then it adds the staff liaison is requested to post a copy of the resolution within 10 days. And 01:08:23.576 --> 01:08:30.610 - then the commission authorizes the sponsor to speak before the council about the resolution. And then 01:08:30.610 --> 01:08:37.507 - it also just takes out that single line at the other thing. Any discussion? I'm good with that, but 01:08:37.507 --> 01:08:44.472 - can we circle back? Mm-hmm. I just said that. Can we return? Yes. I understand the link here, but do 01:08:44.472 --> 01:08:45.438 - you mind just 01:08:48.162 --> 01:08:53.708 - talking about your strategy for linking these two, or putting these two things together in one. Oh, 01:08:53.708 --> 01:08:59.421 - for the amendment? Yeah, the anti-coagulant rodenticide and the adhesive. So that is about the general 01:08:59.421 --> 01:09:05.133 - resolution. So we'll have to get, we're on the amendment now, so we can only talk about the amendment, 01:09:05.133 --> 01:09:10.014 - but we'll come back to that after. Okay. Yeah. Any further discussion on the amendment? 01:09:12.930 --> 01:09:19.380 - So I'm going to go ahead and call a vote. Sorry, can I just say one thing? I actually really like that 01:09:19.380 --> 01:09:25.831 - section about authorizing the sponsor in general. I think if we have a resolution that we pass, having 01:09:25.831 --> 01:09:32.343 - a designated person to speak on that is a good practice. And I think it's one that is worth considering 01:09:32.343 --> 01:09:39.232 - in other resolutions as well. And just adding almost automatically when appropriate. And it's more efficient. 01:09:39.232 --> 01:09:42.238 - And then we don't have to have a second motion. 01:09:43.394 --> 01:09:49.394 - Any other comments on the? Okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and call the roll on the amendment. 01:09:49.394 --> 01:09:56.053 - So Tara Donnerdale. Yes. Justin's absent. Rebecca. Yes. Chris is absent. Zach, yes. Dave Rollo. Yes. 01:09:56.053 --> 01:10:02.844 - Quentin Gilley. And we'll need to see you, remember? Yes. Yes. Cool. Alex Torque. Yes. Maria's absent. 01:10:02.844 --> 01:10:09.503 - Diana. Yes. Okay, cool, so passes. Cool. Okay, so back to the total resolution. So if you want to... 01:10:09.503 --> 01:10:10.558 - Yeah, I just... 01:10:11.266 --> 01:10:18.164 - Don't need a detailed explanation, but just curious about your thought process for putting these two 01:10:18.164 --> 01:10:25.130 - things in one resolution. To me, they're very related because they're both completely indiscriminate, 01:10:25.130 --> 01:10:32.165 - widespread. So they're indiscriminate. They don't target one specific thing. Anything can hit them and 01:10:32.165 --> 01:10:36.126 - frequently does, or gets hit by them and frequently does. 01:10:36.610 --> 01:10:43.485 - the impact is widespread in, if you follow any like wildlife rehabilitation accounts on like Instagram 01:10:43.485 --> 01:10:50.160 - or something, they are constantly posting like stop using these things, both of them. And it's kind 01:10:50.160 --> 01:10:57.369 - of a plague happening right now on wildlife, both of them at the same time. So that's, and I think they're, 01:10:57.369 --> 01:11:04.177 - to me they're kind of naturally related, but that was my reason. Yeah, Quinton, go ahead. Guys, let's 01:11:04.177 --> 01:11:06.046 - say I appreciate the topic. 01:11:06.242 --> 01:11:14.321 - brought to the floor. My thoughts generally are the killing of animals is not an effective method to 01:11:14.321 --> 01:11:22.400 - prevent or control pests. Just like in the same vein, think about perfume is not an effective method 01:11:22.400 --> 01:11:30.879 - to prevent or control a stench. Going down that route, I think people need to start over and find another 01:11:30.879 --> 01:11:35.518 - way because it's not going to solve the issue. Thank you. 01:11:36.962 --> 01:11:42.722 - And I also, I meant to point out, what was I going to say? I lost my train of thought. Well, I also 01:11:42.722 --> 01:11:48.713 - wanted to point out we have three letters in support, which I hope you all read from a couple different 01:11:48.713 --> 01:11:54.704 - organizations. And the other thing that I wanted to point out is that, so if our goal here is to reduce 01:11:54.704 --> 01:12:00.638 - the rodent population, what this is impacting the most are the animals that eat the rodents. Those are 01:12:00.638 --> 01:12:06.110 - the ones that are getting the highest impact. So we're creating a circular feedback loop where 01:12:06.626 --> 01:12:11.790 - you poison the rodents, and the rodent population might briefly go down, but then you're also poisoning 01:12:11.790 --> 01:12:16.955 - the animals that eat the most rodents, so their population goes down, which creates more rodents, which 01:12:16.955 --> 01:12:22.169 - causes you to need more chemicals to begin with. So it creates a negative feedback loop that's a problem 01:12:22.169 --> 01:12:27.184 - as well. So that's another thing I wanted to point out. Can I just comment that I appreciate the use 01:12:27.184 --> 01:12:32.150 - specified that you request as a part of the resolution that the mayor asked that Indiana University 01:12:32.150 --> 01:12:36.222 - provide information about the use of products on campus and to cease use of them. 01:12:36.770 --> 01:12:43.415 - I feel like we often go back in amendments and add in the IU consideration. And I'm curious if Quinton's 01:12:43.415 --> 01:12:49.744 - available on the call and has any comment on that. I'm curious if he's aware of any of that on IU's 01:12:49.744 --> 01:12:56.136 - side and if that's something we should be worried about. They use blue traps at IU. Do they? OK. I'm 01:12:56.136 --> 01:13:02.654 - not even saying that. I've just seen them. Personal lived experience. They're in the staircases of the 01:13:02.654 --> 01:13:05.502 - Wells Library. That's a pretty public place. 01:13:06.530 --> 01:13:15.893 - Quinton, do you have anything further to add to that? Only that I'm generally aware. I think that the 01:13:15.893 --> 01:13:25.716 - city taking this on as a topic presents an opportunity for me to have a conversation about that on campus. 01:13:25.716 --> 01:13:33.886 - Cool. Thanks. I really appreciated the letters of support from members of the community. 01:13:34.818 --> 01:13:40.905 - the third letter of support from the Center for Biodiversity, in that letter of support also talked 01:13:40.905 --> 01:13:46.991 - about the scientific accuracy of what's shared in the resolution. It was compelling. You're talking 01:13:46.991 --> 01:13:53.139 - about the one from Dr. Kettersohn? From Dr. Kettersohn. Yeah. I just want to point out she is like a 01:13:53.139 --> 01:13:59.286 - major bird researcher. So I was very glad that she wrote something. She has a lab named after her at 01:13:59.286 --> 01:14:03.486 - IU's. Anyway, just excited about that. I was excited about that one. 01:14:03.650 --> 01:14:12.693 - She said this resolution is carefully worded and accurate, and I'm in strong favor of its passage, and 01:14:12.693 --> 01:14:22.263 - I thought that that was a helpful context not being an ornithologist myself for the quality of the research. 01:14:22.263 --> 01:14:31.832 - Any other comments or thoughts or questions? Really well thought out. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, excellent. 01:14:31.832 --> 01:14:32.798 - Thank you. 01:14:33.314 --> 01:14:41.450 - Um, so if you see, do you see any issue that council would have with any of this or anything like that? 01:14:41.450 --> 01:14:49.273 - Well, I mean, what has been mentioned already is that this could be a trigger for action elsewhere. 01:14:49.273 --> 01:14:57.174 - That's one thing. Another thing could be enforcement. Um, you know, do we have home roads? Seems to, 01:14:57.174 --> 01:15:02.494 - if we do have home role to say, no, can't, can't sell these things. 01:15:03.330 --> 01:15:10.432 - because we'd have to have a means of enforcing it, of someone going and saying, you can't sell that 01:15:10.432 --> 01:15:17.675 - here, it's illegal. I have to look into that. I have to look into if we can change the state code to, 01:15:17.675 --> 01:15:24.777 - because I agree that this is generally animal welfare, and I think it's hideous, it's unnecessarily 01:15:24.777 --> 01:15:30.174 - cruel, so I'm absolutely in favor of it. I'm glad you brought that forward. 01:15:30.402 --> 01:15:36.256 - So I think it's probably gonna be, people will be sympathetic to it and I think we can explore 01:15:36.256 --> 01:15:42.603 - it, definitely. Cool. Yeah. And keep in mind, the main real mechanism is asking this mayor to, I don't 01:15:42.603 --> 01:15:49.135 - know whether she would do anything, but to issue an order to the city staff to not, and city contractors, 01:15:49.135 --> 01:15:55.420 - and I think that would actually have the biggest impact of all of it, and that is 100% allowed. Yeah. 01:15:55.420 --> 01:16:00.350 - Good. Well, I used to work on a farm for about 15 years and didn't use poisons. 01:16:00.674 --> 01:16:06.942 - Mice definitely had an impact. I was putting out traps, but what really helped was having a stray cat 01:16:06.942 --> 01:16:13.209 - arrive. They have their own environmental impact. Yeah, they do. But then the challenge was to get it 01:16:13.209 --> 01:16:19.661 - captured and spayed and everything, and then let it stick around and take care of the rodent population. 01:16:19.661 --> 01:16:25.990 - So the old-fashioned way seemed to work for thousands of years, and then we got into, of course, these 01:16:25.990 --> 01:16:30.046 - latest things. Are you really how we did this to get it captured? 01:16:30.434 --> 01:16:37.491 - Yes, exactly. Probably. So I'm all for it. It's great. Well, personally, I do like kind of think of 01:16:37.491 --> 01:16:44.548 - those comments. I do see that the anticoagulants of the traps do kind of have potentially like from 01:16:44.548 --> 01:16:51.746 - the city council perspective, like they have very different approaches. Yeah, I do. I agree that they 01:16:51.746 --> 01:16:58.238 - are very linked, but also one is kind of broad ecosystem damage and the other is more which 01:16:58.402 --> 01:17:05.003 - impacts human health and the other is more directly like animal welfare. So I do see a distinct difference. 01:17:05.003 --> 01:17:11.176 - They're not the same thing. The impact though to me is very much related. It was why I anyway. Yeah. 01:17:11.176 --> 01:17:17.289 - So I don't disagree that they should be considered, but also if somebody wanted to separate them as 01:17:17.289 --> 01:17:23.584 - different issues to consider and understand. I can see that. Yeah. And I'm not proposing an amendment, 01:17:23.584 --> 01:17:24.990 - but I do think that in 01:17:25.730 --> 01:17:35.736 - about it, people care a lot about their pets. Like, potentially more than they care about hypothetical 01:17:35.736 --> 01:17:45.838 - raptors, which is like, fine. One minute before I had hoped to wrap up on this. Is there anything else? 01:17:45.838 --> 01:17:55.358 - OK. So let's call the roll. Tara? Yes. Justin's absent. Rebecca? Yes. Chris is absent. Zach, yes. 01:17:55.586 --> 01:18:02.582 - Council Member Rallo? Yes. Quintin Gilley? Yep. Cool. Alex Dork? Yes. Maria is absent. Diana? Yes. Cool. 01:18:02.582 --> 01:18:09.246 - So resolution is adopted as amended and I will send you the amended version. Thank you. Cool. Okay. 01:18:09.246 --> 01:18:15.909 - So now we are on to the staff leads. Oh, thank you. Go ahead. Before I get into that, I just wanted 01:18:15.909 --> 01:18:22.639 - to have a little discussion about BCOSR and I just want to make sure that we are hearing from all of 01:18:22.639 --> 01:18:23.838 - the commissioners 01:18:24.738 --> 01:18:30.803 - It seems like lately all of the meetings are being taken up by resolutions. And if that's what you want 01:18:30.803 --> 01:18:37.043 - to do, that's fine. They're all written by Zach. And so I just want to make sure that this is a collective 01:18:37.043 --> 01:18:42.875 - that we have. We're hearing from everyone on this commission. And perhaps if someone wants to bring 01:18:42.875 --> 01:18:48.998 - a resolution, that maybe you discuss that first. And is that, are you doing any future planning together 01:18:48.998 --> 01:18:53.022 - as a commission as to what you're talking about during your meeting? 01:18:53.922 --> 01:19:00.821 - So just throwing that out there. Everyone has a voice here. So with that, so for 2027, something I wanted 01:19:00.821 --> 01:19:07.851 - to put on your radar is we received a grant for the Buskirt Chumlee Theater. And for the new commissioners, 01:19:07.851 --> 01:19:14.424 - you might not know about that. It's Empowering Energy Partnerships and Communities Grant through the 01:19:14.424 --> 01:19:20.933 - Indiana Office of Energy Development. We're upgrading the HVAC system. We're installing solar and a 01:19:20.933 --> 01:19:22.430 - battery backup system. 01:19:22.594 --> 01:19:29.619 - at the Busker Children's Theater. And part of that grant was to pay for four climate talks in 2027. 01:19:29.619 --> 01:19:36.785 - And so I just want to put that on your radar that I am seeking ideas on what those four climate talks 01:19:36.785 --> 01:19:43.880 - could look like, what speakers, what topics. I would love to have the commission's input on that. If 01:19:43.880 --> 01:19:51.678 - you want to help me plan that, let me know. I'm thinking maybe the first talk is talking about climate change, 01:19:51.810 --> 01:19:58.646 - you know, the history, the history of our climate action plan here in Bloomington, what we've done to 01:19:58.646 --> 01:20:05.349 - date, where we're at and where we're going. And so, you know, what is projected for Bloomington and 01:20:05.349 --> 01:20:11.582 - the impacts of climate change here. And then another talk about energy efficiency and solar, 01:20:11.582 --> 01:20:18.686 - one talk about, you know, forest and ecosystem health, and then another one about, you know, agriculture, 01:20:18.850 --> 01:20:25.041 - food security, I know that's a really important topic here. And so, you know, inviting in speakers, 01:20:25.041 --> 01:20:31.480 - inviting in artists, would love to find and perhaps reach out to Jack Johnson, those artists that have, 01:20:31.480 --> 01:20:37.796 - you know, they're really committed to sustainability. And so really making this for the community and 01:20:37.796 --> 01:20:44.606 - something that everyone wants to participate in, even across the region, across, you know, Project 46 region. 01:20:44.866 --> 01:20:51.202 - Project 46 is Southern Indiana Regional Climate Alliance between Bloomington, Nashville, and Columbus. 01:20:51.202 --> 01:20:57.354 - And so really wanting to make this as impactful as possible. So. I think what is the best method of 01:20:57.354 --> 01:21:03.752 - communication? Do you want the commission as a whole to chair or individual commissioners to just reach 01:21:03.752 --> 01:21:10.212 - out to you? I'll leave that up to you guys. If you want to work together as the commission or individual 01:21:10.212 --> 01:21:12.734 - commissioners, you can just let me know. 01:21:16.098 --> 01:21:22.057 - Anybody else have questions? Okay, so with that, we move on to new business. Anyone remember announcements? 01:21:22.057 --> 01:21:27.740 - Anyone have any announcements they'd like to? Okay, cool. Just briefly, I do want to note, I know I've 01:21:27.740 --> 01:21:33.257 - been doing a lot of resolutions. You notice I did not introduce a new one today. I'm trying to pull 01:21:33.257 --> 01:21:38.885 - back a little bit. I tend to move at lightning speed, and I know that can overwhelm people a lot. I'm 01:21:38.885 --> 01:21:42.526 - not trying to do that, but that's just my natural speed is to go, 01:21:42.690 --> 01:21:48.842 - really fast. So anyway, I'm trying I've consciously trying to slow down a little bit. And this is what 01:21:48.842 --> 01:21:54.875 - we can talk about as a larger commission and another time when we have time to do that. But I wonder 01:21:54.875 --> 01:22:01.027 - if there is a method of like, putting on the table areas of interest and then if people are interested 01:22:01.027 --> 01:22:07.239 - in like working with you on certain topics. And that's what we're trying to do with the dark sky thing. 01:22:07.239 --> 01:22:09.150 - Yeah, I got a group of Yeah, so 01:22:09.282 --> 01:22:14.502 - That would be great. I know we discussed previously having some type of planning meeting as a commission 01:22:14.502 --> 01:22:19.822 - to determine what we want to do and how we want to go about our business, whether it's yearly or quarterly 01:22:19.822 --> 01:22:24.793 - or whatever. But that could be part of that, is setting up some amount of infrastructure that meets 01:22:24.793 --> 01:22:29.864 - open door laws and also allows us to have some amount of idea of what's coming up on the docket. Yes. 01:22:29.864 --> 01:22:34.985 - And I think that would be great. That's one of the main reasons why I'm excited about having some sort 01:22:34.985 --> 01:22:37.918 - of a working something that we do, would be an opportunity 01:22:38.434 --> 01:22:45.328 - for me to vomit all my ideas out. I think that remembering the conversation from the last meeting was 01:22:45.328 --> 01:22:52.087 - that we talked about planning something after the training. Yes, so hopefully. That was sort of our 01:22:52.087 --> 01:22:58.913 - improvement, was that we could revisit the conversation after training. Yeah, so hopefully that will 01:22:58.913 --> 01:23:05.875 - be upcoming. Anything else? I think Quinton has something. Oh, Quinton, go ahead. I just wanted to say 01:23:05.875 --> 01:23:06.686 - real quick, 01:23:07.234 --> 01:23:13.204 - You know, I know each of us have, you know, we're real busy people. Ideally, there's gonna be points 01:23:13.204 --> 01:23:19.173 - in time where each and every one of us are gonna have a little bit of time we can really push. And I 01:23:19.173 --> 01:23:24.966 - hope that happens. If now's your time, I fully support it. Keep it coming, I appreciate it. Okay, 01:23:24.966 --> 01:23:31.172 - thank you, Quinn. Oh, I guess I have a couple thoughts on that. One is, when you have an idea, one thing 01:23:31.172 --> 01:23:34.718 - you could do is maybe like, before you start working on it, 01:23:35.362 --> 01:23:42.491 - bring it to the commission and then it would be easy for somebody to say like, I'd like to partner with 01:23:42.491 --> 01:23:49.415 - you on this. That would be maybe one strategy to get more ideas from a wider audience. But the other 01:23:49.415 --> 01:23:56.955 - is if we dedicate like a few, a little bit of time every meeting to have a bit more freewheeling conversation 01:23:56.955 --> 01:24:03.742 - like we're having right now that can get other ideas out there because maybe somebody would rather 01:24:04.034 --> 01:24:09.451 - work on a report and we need to like have a little side discussion. Two people find out that they're 01:24:09.451 --> 01:24:14.814 - passionate about something. They're like, what if we do a report on this? And I don't know. Because 01:24:14.814 --> 01:24:20.391 - I know that last meeting, I don't remember who, but one of the commissioners said that they didn't feel 01:24:20.391 --> 01:24:25.754 - like what they, the thing they wanted to do most on the commission was pass a bunch of resolutions. 01:24:25.754 --> 01:24:31.332 - And like, I'm very policy and legislatively motivated and things to like passing resolutions. You know, 01:24:31.332 --> 01:24:32.190 - it tickles the, 01:24:32.418 --> 01:24:37.974 - happy centers of my brain, but I can understand that other people might want to be doing other work 01:24:37.974 --> 01:24:43.530 - and that if we had more of that open time that like put into the agenda, that might be constructive 01:24:43.530 --> 01:24:49.197 - to getting out other ideas. The new business spot on the agenda is sort of pro forma, like it's there 01:24:49.197 --> 01:24:54.753 - because we have to have it there and it's just kind of the thing at the end, but it might be a good 01:24:54.753 --> 01:25:00.420 - spot for intentionally putting more time in. Yeah, building like a ten minute thing at the end, yeah. 01:25:00.420 --> 01:25:02.142 - All right, any other comments? 01:25:03.138 --> 01:25:10.047 - If not. You did a great job today, Zach. Thank you. Thank you. I've only done it once. It's hard. It's 01:25:10.047 --> 01:25:17.024 - a lot of work. And the deputy clerk took a load off my shoulders right at the beginning. Thank you very 01:25:17.024 --> 01:25:23.799 - much. I was stressed about that. I saw you stressed. Thank you. I know. I know. I know. So can I get 01:25:23.799 --> 01:25:30.910 - a motion to adjourn? Motion. OK. All right. So I'll go ahead and. Tara. Yes. Justin Sasson. Rebecca. Yes. 01:25:31.266 --> 01:25:38.969 - Chris is absent. Zach, yes. Councilmember Arroyo? Yes. Quintin Gilley? Yes. Alex? No, I'm just kidding. 01:25:38.969 --> 01:25:42.302 - Diana? Yes. Okay, this meeting is adjourned.