WEBVTT 00:00:00.482 --> 00:00:08.454 - All right, I'll call to order this meeting of the Bloomington Commission on Sustainability and Resilience 00:00:08.454 --> 00:00:16.125 - at 6.01 p.m. And we'll go through the roll call. Tara Dunn-Bitt. Here. Here. Justin Vassel. I'm here. 00:00:16.125 --> 00:00:23.796 - Rebecca Payne. Here. Here. Christopher Miles. Present. Present. Zach Amerman. Here. Here. That's Mova 00:00:23.796 --> 00:00:28.158 - Rollo. Not online. Alex York. Absent. Maria Arstad. Here. 00:00:28.546 --> 00:00:42.610 - Here. Here. All right. Seven. Perfect. Good to go. Okay. So we'll start with the approval of the agenda. 00:00:42.610 --> 00:00:52.254 - Any changes anyone wants to propose to the agenda as it was circulated? 00:00:55.586 --> 00:01:02.245 - All right. We don't have anyone online, so we can do voice votes and stuff for the time being. All right. 00:01:02.245 --> 00:01:08.841 - Is there a motion to approve the agenda? Motion. Second. And a second. Perfect. All right. And all those 00:01:08.841 --> 00:01:15.312 - in favor say aye. Aye. All those? Any abstentions? Okay. The agenda is approved. That brings us to the 00:01:15.312 --> 00:01:17.950 - approval of minutes. We'll start with the 00:01:18.146 --> 00:01:26.005 - April 28th, 2026 minutes, which was our special session where we received the report from the O'Neill 00:01:26.005 --> 00:01:33.942 - School capstone. And we circulate around a really more, almost like memoranda than full-blown minutes, 00:01:33.942 --> 00:01:42.032 - but it has all the important details in there. Any corrections anyone has to offer to those? Nope. There 00:01:42.032 --> 00:01:46.270 - was no business at that meeting. No, there wasn't, no. 00:01:47.330 --> 00:01:53.836 - While we're here, we'll bring up the June 9th minutes for the regular meeting that we had last month. 00:01:53.836 --> 00:02:00.724 - Are there any corrections to that? We can just approve both of these in one chunk if there's no corrections 00:02:00.724 --> 00:02:07.230 - to either. Okay, do I have a motion to approve both sets of those minutes? And a second? Perfect, all 00:02:07.230 --> 00:02:13.864 - those in favor say aye. All opposed, nay? And any abstentions? Okay, both of those minutes are approved 00:02:13.864 --> 00:02:16.670 - as circulated. Brings us to public comment. 00:02:16.770 --> 00:02:27.722 - I don't see anyone in the gallery, and I don't see anybody online. Great. We're almost done. No. OK, 00:02:27.722 --> 00:02:38.782 - move on to the commissioner reports. We'll do the chairs report. How's everybody doing? Staying cool? 00:02:38.782 --> 00:02:40.734 - Yeah, no kidding. 00:02:40.866 --> 00:02:48.467 - We could stay later, actually. OK, so just some organizational updates to start. So we're bidding farewell 00:02:48.467 --> 00:02:55.784 - to Quentin Gilley, who is in our IU sustainability spot on the commission. So he's moving on from that 00:02:55.784 --> 00:03:03.242 - position. So wishing him the best and greener pastures ahead. And just want to thank him for his service 00:03:03.242 --> 00:03:08.286 - on the commission. He's been with us since, I think, November of 2024. 00:03:09.058 --> 00:03:19.431 - And so I want to thank him for that. And yeah, we'll look forward to the next appointment from that 00:03:19.431 --> 00:03:29.909 - position. But yeah, so at the moment, that puts us at four vacancies. Oh, and Alex is here. Welcome, 00:03:29.909 --> 00:03:35.614 - Alex. So yeah, four vacancies, including that IU seat. 00:03:37.442 --> 00:03:45.348 - Yeah, I think that's, do you guys happen to know if there are applications in the queue? It seems unnotified. 00:03:45.348 --> 00:03:52.607 - OK. Is that an explicitly, is that appointed through a particular path? Is there a position where if 00:03:52.607 --> 00:03:59.939 - someone holds that position, occupies that relation for IU to the commission? Or is it something that 00:03:59.939 --> 00:04:07.198 - anyone there can apply for? It's appointed by the IU Office of Sustainability. So yeah, Quinton was. 00:04:07.906 --> 00:04:12.756 - of that role on behalf of the IU Office of Sustainability. So we'll reach out to them tomorrow just 00:04:12.756 --> 00:04:17.558 - to hopefully figure out. They just picked someone. It's from somebody on the staff in that office, 00:04:17.558 --> 00:04:22.554 - I think. Yeah. Because before it, it was his boss. Yeah, that's right. He was in that role. Thank you. 00:04:22.554 --> 00:04:27.647 - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and there's some mayoral vacancies, appointment vacancies as well. So if anybody knows 00:04:27.647 --> 00:04:32.497 - anyone who might be interested, invite them to go to onboard and apply. Mayoral three or mayoral or 00:04:32.497 --> 00:04:36.862 - any of the counseling. Yeah, three mayoral. And then the fourth is the IU Sustainability. 00:04:39.650 --> 00:04:48.293 - I was gone last month, so thank you for Zach for standing in and sharing that. What was that? Sorry, 00:04:48.293 --> 00:04:57.449 - I said, wow, that was just a month ago. It feels like three months ago. Not any reflection on that meeting 00:04:57.449 --> 00:05:06.691 - specifically, how much has happened in between. Speaking of things that have happened in between, everybody 00:05:06.691 --> 00:05:08.574 - got a copy of the new 00:05:09.122 --> 00:05:16.115 - like grant, working group grant processes that Sean and Julie sent out in the past month. So you might 00:05:16.115 --> 00:05:23.175 - also be aware with the old ones that we have, because it's been a little while since we've gone through 00:05:23.175 --> 00:05:30.303 - the process, and we've had some new folks on the commission since then. So basically, there's some funds 00:05:30.303 --> 00:05:33.630 - that are available to us through ESD every year. 00:05:33.826 --> 00:05:41.271 - In the past, we've sort of set those aside for what we call working group grants, and there was a process 00:05:41.271 --> 00:05:48.436 - by which a working group could apply for a specific project for some of those funds. There's a couple 00:05:48.436 --> 00:05:55.952 - changes to the procedures going forward starting from this year. It's, I think, a little more streamlined, 00:05:55.952 --> 00:06:03.678 - which is good. So something for folks to be thinking about are ways in which we might want to use this money. 00:06:03.778 --> 00:06:10.635 - For example, we've had Canopy Bloomington go and replace some trees that had died after being planted 00:06:10.635 --> 00:06:17.357 - at various spots around the city. And so that was a great use of those funds. We got some new trees 00:06:17.357 --> 00:06:24.348 - out of it all around town. So stuff like that. We don't really have a very organized working group sort 00:06:24.348 --> 00:06:30.398 - of thing anymore. But any group of commissioners could get together to sponsor a project. 00:06:30.498 --> 00:06:37.677 - Some of the key changes now are that you'll have to have a community partner of some sort. So that could 00:06:37.677 --> 00:06:44.719 - be a small business, a nonprofit, a school, neighborhood association, that sort of thing. And the idea 00:06:44.719 --> 00:06:51.555 - is that they would be the leads who are actually implementing the project. And let's see what else. 00:06:51.555 --> 00:06:58.460 - The funding levels are one of the new things. So $7,000 total for 2026. And by the way, if I get any 00:06:58.460 --> 00:06:59.486 - of this wrong, 00:06:59.682 --> 00:07:06.582 - feel free to jump in. 1,000 of which we can dedicate towards supplies. So that's a new thing. We've 00:07:06.582 --> 00:07:13.621 - already spent some for the Earth Day stuff this year. So I think 575 is what's remaining for the rest 00:07:13.621 --> 00:07:20.521 - of this year. So anything that you think the commission needs for those sorts of events or anything 00:07:20.521 --> 00:07:21.694 - like that, yeah. 00:07:24.386 --> 00:07:32.609 - The question I have is whether there is an existing list of needs or desires that would help guide where 00:07:32.609 --> 00:07:40.911 - to allocate funding, and if not, if it would make sense to create a repository of project ideas or things 00:07:40.911 --> 00:07:48.822 - that would benefit from having money spent on them. I think the answer to that is no and yes. Can I? 00:07:48.822 --> 00:07:49.918 - Yeah, please. 00:07:50.178 --> 00:07:57.705 - uh like outreach to different orgs last year trying to get some of this money out um so i can like put 00:07:57.705 --> 00:08:05.304 - together what who i've already talked to um a lot of them didn't pan out just because it was the timing 00:08:05.304 --> 00:08:12.612 - of it was such that they were like we can we don't have capacity to do this now but maybe start now 00:08:12.612 --> 00:08:18.750 - this was maybe like october september october of last year and then i corrected the 00:08:19.170 --> 00:08:27.510 - This is for calendar year 2026. This is $6,000. The funding has to be encumbered. Encumbered, is that 00:08:27.510 --> 00:08:35.850 - the right word? By December, before December business meeting, I think. It's in the actual deadlines, 00:08:35.850 --> 00:08:44.354 - but we have a year to actually complete the project. That's what the previous one was. I don't remember 00:08:44.354 --> 00:08:47.134 - if that's part of what's changed. 00:08:47.458 --> 00:08:53.479 - So say you reach out to the organization in November, you come up with your project idea. As long as 00:08:53.479 --> 00:08:59.680 - we have a really good proposal put together, we can get a grant agreement put together. It doesn't have 00:08:59.680 --> 00:09:06.059 - to be executed, but as long as we have that draft, we can cover the terms. OK. There's a list of community 00:09:06.059 --> 00:09:12.200 - partners, or can we just add any if they're not already on there? We don't have one. OK. Yeah, I mean, 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:14.942 - yeah, so the document spells out what kind of 00:09:15.682 --> 00:09:23.209 - partners would be yeah the criteria for a partner but if they're not already kind of on file with the 00:09:23.209 --> 00:09:30.884 - city I think they have to fill out some paperwork to kind of become an approved vendor through the city 00:09:30.884 --> 00:09:38.337 - but if they're already on the list that makes it even easier yeah and then yeah I encourage everyone 00:09:38.337 --> 00:09:43.134 - to look through look through the document that's a few pages and 00:09:43.554 --> 00:09:50.770 - give you a pretty good idea of kind of what goes into it. And yeah, so maybe just ask if anyone has 00:09:50.770 --> 00:09:58.131 - any questions about that process. So in terms of what we could actually do with this stuff and how do 00:09:58.131 --> 00:10:05.420 - we brainstorm these things, maybe I'll transition into the next topic here, which is we talked about 00:10:05.420 --> 00:10:12.636 - doing a strategy planning session at some point or a retreat or something like this. We called it a 00:10:12.636 --> 00:10:13.502 - few things. 00:10:13.602 --> 00:10:19.798 - there might be a really good candidate for that. We're part of, you know, in addition to talking about 00:10:19.798 --> 00:10:25.633 - what do we wanna do as a commission in terms of things like resolutions or other work like that, 00:10:25.633 --> 00:10:31.648 - you know, is there a list of sort of initiatives that if we just had some money, we could make some 00:10:31.648 --> 00:10:38.085 - progress on, you know, let's build that list and prioritize it and maybe think about what kind of supplies 00:10:38.085 --> 00:10:43.198 - we need. We were gonna hold off on scheduling a planning session like that until we, 00:10:43.490 --> 00:10:49.560 - had an opportunity to go through the training, the city-wide training for the boards and commissions. 00:10:49.560 --> 00:10:55.512 - So that's passed. I think we could probably talk about getting something like that scheduled again. 00:10:55.512 --> 00:11:01.761 - I'm thinking that maybe September is an ideal time to target, just because, as we'll talk about a little 00:11:01.761 --> 00:11:07.712 - bit later, we're hoping for an extra meeting in August to do a joint session with the Environmental 00:11:07.712 --> 00:11:12.414 - Commission. So I don't want to overload August with a bunch of extra meetings. 00:11:12.674 --> 00:11:19.583 - So maybe September, we sort of talked before about doing, do we just do an extra two hour session or 00:11:19.583 --> 00:11:26.423 - something on an off week than we normally would meet? Or do we do like a weekend thing for a couple 00:11:26.423 --> 00:11:33.332 - hours? I think we're probably not going to be meeting at any one time for more than two hours or so, 00:11:33.332 --> 00:11:38.462 - just to kind of keep things focused and be respectful of everybody's time. 00:11:38.818 --> 00:11:46.015 - But whether we try to fit two of those in a month or maybe just one on a weekend or whatever, yeah, 00:11:46.015 --> 00:11:53.500 - we can try to nail down those details and get it scheduled. And come up with some goals for things that 00:11:53.500 --> 00:12:00.697 - we want to actually walk away from those sessions with, that sort of stuff. Yeah. One resource that 00:12:00.697 --> 00:12:07.678 - we might be able to look into for community partners is, for a list that's already generated, is 00:12:07.810 --> 00:12:19.354 - the Monroe County Public Library maintains a list of nonprofits, I think. It's not necessarily the most 00:12:19.354 --> 00:12:30.454 - up to date, but it would have a lot of, I'll see if I can find that resource, yeah. Nice. Yeah, and 00:12:30.454 --> 00:12:33.118 - speaking of the grants, 00:12:33.474 --> 00:12:40.795 - I'm sorry, I'm just looking up a message. So a couple years ago, I think now, we used to have another 00:12:40.795 --> 00:12:47.973 - set of funds that we could issue grants through called the Sustainable Neighborhoods Grant. And one 00:12:47.973 --> 00:12:55.294 - of the projects that we did there was to, I forget in which neighborhood it was, Covenanter, I think. 00:12:55.618 --> 00:13:00.665 - buy some of these bins that people could put things that you normally can't recycle into those bins 00:13:00.665 --> 00:13:05.862 - as like a community and then they get shipped out to a place where they can get properly recycled. The 00:13:05.862 --> 00:13:08.638 - company was called TerraCycle. And Matt Austin, it was 00:13:09.122 --> 00:13:14.994 - commissioner here until earlier this year, you know, reached out to me today and mentioned that the 00:13:14.994 --> 00:13:21.218 - Waste Reduction District of Monroe County is participating in a hefty pilot program through Rumpke that's 00:13:21.218 --> 00:13:27.148 - very similar to TerraCycle. And so you can basically buy these orange hefty bags at like online from 00:13:27.148 --> 00:13:33.079 - Target or Walmart or Amazon or whatever. And you can pick them up and then you can basically do that 00:13:33.079 --> 00:13:35.486 - same sort of program, ship them back and 00:13:35.906 --> 00:13:43.895 - send all sorts of kitchen waste that you normally can't recycle out. So that's kind of cool. Matt pointed 00:13:43.895 --> 00:13:51.583 - out that, hey, we did that first here in Bloomington. Now, maybe it's because of that trial, or maybe 00:13:51.583 --> 00:13:59.346 - it just happened. But hey, it's a wider sort of service that's kind of being trialed now. So something 00:13:59.346 --> 00:14:04.094 - exciting I just wanted to mention to everybody. Let's see. OK. 00:14:04.290 --> 00:14:12.049 - For resolutions, so we passed resolution 2026-05 last time about the anticoagulant rodenticides and 00:14:12.049 --> 00:14:19.419 - traps. And so that's been transmitted to, at least I think, a vast majority of the recipients. 00:14:19.419 --> 00:14:27.178 - There's maybe, yeah. All the city. Right. So I think there's still a few stragglers that we have to 00:14:27.178 --> 00:14:34.238 - send, but Zach and I have been kind of splitting that up and getting those out. Let's see. 00:14:36.706 --> 00:14:43.613 - Thinking back to resolution 2026-02, which was our automated license plate reader, you know, flock cameras 00:14:43.613 --> 00:14:50.133 - type stuff, no new announcements from our end, but just things that have developed since then, which 00:14:50.133 --> 00:14:56.588 - I'm sure most people have probably heard of, that the mayor had announced in April that the city is 00:14:56.588 --> 00:15:03.108 - going to transition away from flock, but there wasn't a timeline specified. I think, as far as I can 00:15:03.108 --> 00:15:06.206 - tell, the LPRs are still installed around town. 00:15:06.402 --> 00:15:13.183 - If we're interested, we might consider sending a letter to the office of the mayor or something where 00:15:13.183 --> 00:15:19.830 - we ask for an update on that transition timeline and process. That's something we could pass at the 00:15:19.830 --> 00:15:26.677 - next meeting or something if people are interested in that. Resolution 2026-03, which was the Kirkwood 00:15:26.677 --> 00:15:32.062 - pedestrianization, just an update on that. Coordinates 2026-12 pass the council. 00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:38.427 - before they went on recess. And that one was, so that would have reestablished the closing of Kirkwood 00:15:38.427 --> 00:15:44.288 - during the summer months. And then that was vetoed by the mayor. And so the council, if they want to 00:15:44.288 --> 00:15:50.266 - override that veto, would have to do so at their next meeting, which would be when they come back from 00:15:50.266 --> 00:15:56.359 - their summer recess. So just wanted to provide those as sort of news updates on things that we've passed 00:15:56.359 --> 00:16:02.046 - recently. Internal updates, so strategic planning retreat. I think I've mentioned before that all 00:16:02.626 --> 00:16:09.813 - you know, send out a Google thing to try to help schedule that. I haven't done that yet, but I will 00:16:09.813 --> 00:16:17.215 - do that. And we'll try to get something on the books for September. One other thing that I think would 00:16:17.215 --> 00:16:24.545 - be a good topic of discussion for one of those sessions would be looking at bylaws rewrite, something 00:16:24.545 --> 00:16:26.270 - we sort of talked about 00:16:26.466 --> 00:16:31.639 - a little bit in passing before. I know Zach's kind of taking a look at that. He's got some ideas of 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:36.916 - changes that could be made, but there's some things that just need to be changed, like old references 00:16:36.916 --> 00:16:42.399 - to parts of the code that no longer exist, because they've been moved to other parts of the code. There's 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:47.780 - a couple typos and things like that in there, and things that would make life just a little bit easier, 00:16:47.780 --> 00:16:53.470 - like not being so strict on exactly how the agenda format needs to look, so that we can kind of change things 00:16:53.634 --> 00:16:59.765 - around ahead of time. But then we can talk a little bit more about what sort of procedures and stuff 00:16:59.765 --> 00:17:05.836 - that we have in place that are working well for us, which things are causing friction that we might 00:17:05.836 --> 00:17:12.028 - want to think about doing things a little bit differently. And we can have some of those discussions, 00:17:12.028 --> 00:17:19.070 - try to put that all together into one big package. Can I ask a question about the letter that you brought up? Yeah. 00:17:19.330 --> 00:17:26.254 - if we wanted to write a letter as a commission, does it follow the same process as a resolution 00:17:26.254 --> 00:17:33.828 - business-wise? Is it effectively a resolution or is it a different? You could read it in different ways. 00:17:33.828 --> 00:17:40.464 - My reading on it would be that it's not because it's not really formally stating an opinion 00:17:40.464 --> 00:17:48.254 - of the commission, but just asking questions. I would read it as it's not, we could pass it in one meeting. 00:17:48.642 --> 00:17:55.493 - But we never really strictly define anywhere what exactly a resolution is. So it could be argued away, 00:17:55.493 --> 00:18:02.477 - probably. So if anyone feels strongly about that. For the capstone project, I wrote a memo and we passed 00:18:02.477 --> 00:18:09.129 - on a meeting. Yeah, that's a good point. You can do that, you just need to vote on it. Not you need 00:18:09.129 --> 00:18:16.446 - to vote on it twice, not you need to write. So if our bios are neutral, we can just follow the city guidance. 00:18:17.442 --> 00:18:23.275 - I would thank you for something like that, especially for requesting additional information. The longer 00:18:23.275 --> 00:18:29.163 - it took us to write the letter, that information might come out and then it may become irrelevant. Yeah, 00:18:29.163 --> 00:18:35.108 - yeah, it makes it hard to write. Yeah. So things like that on a more time-sensitive. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:18:35.108 --> 00:18:40.885 - Yeah, good question, though. And then just something just on the back burner is the chicken flock size 00:18:40.885 --> 00:18:46.942 - ordinance, which came out of a resolution we passed last year. So Zach drafted up some specific UDO and BMC 00:18:47.138 --> 00:18:53.623 - changes that would support that resolution. I think we're mostly just waiting on a sort of more opportune 00:18:53.623 --> 00:18:59.863 - time to engage with council and try to kind of get that on their radar, which might be coming up soon 00:18:59.863 --> 00:19:06.409 - once they're back from recess. And I think they've got, I think they have a permanent, I think a permanent 00:19:06.409 --> 00:19:13.077 - council council now, right? Or maybe. They're still hiring one that they have. Oh, they are, okay. Temporary 00:19:13.077 --> 00:19:17.054 - one. Ah, okay. Experience, yeah. Okay, gotcha. Either way, yeah. 00:19:17.314 --> 00:19:24.358 - We'll probably just look to Councilman Barallo for guidance on when is a good time to kind of bring 00:19:24.358 --> 00:19:31.614 - that forward. But just want to keep it on people's radar. A couple external updates. IU is doing their 00:19:31.614 --> 00:19:38.729 - Economic Development Summit that they do every year. It's on August 3rd this year at the Alumni Hall 00:19:38.729 --> 00:19:42.462 - in IMU. I don't think they have an agenda yet, but I 00:19:42.946 --> 00:19:50.581 - Right before this meeting, I typed up some chair report notes, so I'll send this around to everybody. 00:19:50.581 --> 00:19:58.664 - There's a link on there if you're interested. I think that's mostly it from the chair's report. I mentioned 00:19:58.664 --> 00:20:06.224 - the joint session that we're hoping to do with the EC in August. We're talking about that resolution 00:20:06.224 --> 00:20:11.838 - today, so we'll maybe kind of hold off on that for the moment, but I think 00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:17.490 - There's the logistic challenge of just getting two commissions in the same place at the same time. And 00:20:17.490 --> 00:20:22.432 - then there's not quite a challenge, but just some logistical planning that needs to be done in terms 00:20:22.432 --> 00:20:27.375 - of how does that actually go. And I think we have a pretty decent, you know, Zach and I talked about 00:20:27.375 --> 00:20:32.464 - this a little bit. I think we have a pretty decent idea of like how that would actually flow. You know, 00:20:32.464 --> 00:20:37.602 - both sides has to notice the meeting, of course. And each commission is subject to their own independent 00:20:37.602 --> 00:20:39.070 - forum. That's right. Exactly. 00:20:39.170 --> 00:20:43.786 - Each side, once they were there, and we called to order, there would be one chair, either myself or 00:20:43.786 --> 00:20:48.818 - the chair of the EC, and calls the meeting to order. And then both sides takes their attendance, establishes 00:20:48.818 --> 00:20:53.435 - quorum. And then when we do votes, it's the same sort of thing. One side goes first, then the other 00:20:53.435 --> 00:20:58.374 - side goes. Essentially just two meetings happening simultaneously at the same time. Yeah, just coordinated 00:20:58.374 --> 00:21:02.991 - meetings. Less complicated than it sounds. You just. Like there on one side and there on the other. 00:21:02.991 --> 00:21:07.838 - Not even necessarily. The main thing is you have to keep track of each commission's votes independently. 00:21:08.098 --> 00:21:14.067 - Yeah. Everything else is like a regular meeting. If we were going to pass something, we wouldn't need 00:21:14.067 --> 00:21:20.036 - a majority of the people in the room. We need a majority of the EC members and a majority of the PCOS 00:21:20.036 --> 00:21:25.888 - members. Yeah. That's the main logistical challenge. Everything else is just people in a room, like 00:21:25.888 --> 00:21:31.798 - we normally are in a meeting. Yeah. But it should be fun. Hopefully, yeah. Yeah. And so I'll send an 00:21:31.798 --> 00:21:35.134 - email to you guys tomorrow because we're targeting April 00:21:35.554 --> 00:21:44.478 - Sorry, August 18th. August 18th is what we're targeting. Council chambers is the obvious choice for 00:21:44.478 --> 00:21:53.937 - that because it's a big space. I didn't see any meetings on the public calendar at the moment, so fingers 00:21:53.937 --> 00:22:01.790 - crossed that the space is available, but I'll touch base with you guys and we can chat. 00:22:02.082 --> 00:22:08.047 - the EC talked about it, and I think that most of them are available on that date. Yeah, and that's the 00:22:08.047 --> 00:22:13.955 - main reason we're going with August 18th, because that's when they're available, yeah. Yeah, exactly. 00:22:13.955 --> 00:22:19.804 - So if people want to check their calendars at some point before we leave today, and you could let me 00:22:19.804 --> 00:22:25.595 - know if that date works for you, that would be helpful. It does work for council chambers. Awesome. 00:22:25.595 --> 00:22:31.966 - Cool. OK. Very, very good. There's one for at least one of you, too? Yeah. OK. OK, cool. Yeah, do we have to? 00:22:32.226 --> 00:22:41.444 - staff liaison from each commission or just one? I think technically, but I'll let you guys see for yourself. 00:22:41.444 --> 00:22:49.986 - I'll review things for sure with the clerk's office just to make sure. Okay. Perfect. I think that's 00:22:49.986 --> 00:22:58.444 - the end of my report. Sorry, there's a little scatter brain that just put it together. That's okay. 00:22:58.444 --> 00:22:59.966 - That's very good. 00:23:00.514 --> 00:23:09.626 - Thank you. Any questions for me? Okey-dokey. Oh yeah. First, tell me if this is more appropriate to 00:23:09.626 --> 00:23:19.102 - discuss later, but in terms of a retreat, have you discussed sort of the nature of that? When that term 00:23:19.102 --> 00:23:23.294 - is used, I think of something that is sort of 00:23:24.994 --> 00:23:31.368 - That plus wanting to spend money on it suggests sort of like other place where we all go and sort of 00:23:31.368 --> 00:23:37.679 - engage. And as I remember, there were issues with quorum and open door laws. Have those issues been 00:23:37.679 --> 00:23:44.116 - sort of clarified or is it still a kind of question of how we would gather together without violating 00:23:44.116 --> 00:23:50.617 - open door laws? Yeah, I think as long as we have a quorum, you know, for the full body and we publicly 00:23:50.617 --> 00:23:52.510 - notice it appropriately then. 00:23:53.058 --> 00:24:00.036 - We should be fine. I think, you know, retreat is maybe not quite the best word for it anymore. I'm excited. 00:24:00.036 --> 00:24:06.368 - I think it's like wine coolers when I hear that. Yeah, that probably won't happen. No zip lining. 00:24:06.368 --> 00:24:12.894 - Happy ones. That's right. It's the last structured planning session. Yeah. So it's subject to the... 00:24:12.894 --> 00:24:19.420 - Yeah, workshop maybe. Yeah, exactly. No campfires. Yeah, I know, yeah. That would be nice, but yeah, 00:24:19.420 --> 00:24:22.974 - it's, you know, tough to get all those ducks in a row. 00:24:23.106 --> 00:24:28.460 - In terms of where we would have it, I think it would be nice to get out of the building a little bit. 00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:33.919 - One place I've thought about is I've got a membership to the mill, so we could reserve the space there. 00:24:33.919 --> 00:24:39.325 - They've got a pretty large conference room. We'd still be in a conference room, I guess, in that case. 00:24:39.325 --> 00:24:44.679 - Different conference. Yeah, it would be a couple of minutes walk that way instead of right here. That 00:24:44.679 --> 00:24:50.085 - was special. If anyone has any other ideas of wherever we go, it just has to be publicly available and 00:24:50.085 --> 00:24:51.870 - accessible. In city limits, yeah. 00:24:52.258 --> 00:24:59.173 - If you go to the southeast branch of the library. I think there are interesting opportunities there 00:24:59.173 --> 00:25:06.641 - then, because I think there are some locations within the city that are maybe owned by the parks department 00:25:06.641 --> 00:25:13.555 - that might be of interest. The mill is a possibility. You will understand my hesitations around the 00:25:13.555 --> 00:25:21.438 - mill in some regard. I wouldn't rule it out though, and I am interested in, I think it's gray, go somewhere else. 00:25:22.370 --> 00:25:28.917 - Good thing to look into. Yeah, if anyone has ideas of places, definitely would be open to consider. 00:25:28.917 --> 00:25:35.661 - I'll put it on the Google form. You know, the parks department property is, even if another department 00:25:35.661 --> 00:25:42.274 - is borrowing it, they still charge our department a fee to use it because they have to staff it. The 00:25:42.274 --> 00:25:47.774 - parks department staffs it. So yeah, so it would be free to do that, unfortunately. 00:25:48.290 --> 00:25:54.936 - But that is, like, the idea is we would earmark some of the budget toward that purpose of, like, facilities 00:25:54.936 --> 00:26:01.275 - rental for this meeting, if I understood you correctly earlier. Yeah, would that be an appropriate use 00:26:01.275 --> 00:26:07.491 - of the supplies fund if we decided to go somewhere where we had to pay some money? Like, a strategic 00:26:07.491 --> 00:26:13.214 - meeting feels like a non-controversial way to apply that money. Is it, like, very expensive? 00:26:13.602 --> 00:26:18.931 - Or is it? Probably not. I think like less than $100. OK. So we're not, like, in the house. Nothing easy. 00:26:18.931 --> 00:26:24.005 - Yeah. OK. Yeah. We're going to blow the whole rest of the budget. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it used 00:26:24.005 --> 00:26:29.232 - to be, like, shelter houses or parks before. That's very reasonable. Sometimes, I didn't know if they, 00:26:29.232 --> 00:26:34.307 - like, give a discount. Yeah. I just didn't know the order. The public rate is reasonable. I imagine 00:26:34.307 --> 00:26:37.758 - if there's a discount city rate, it's more reasonable. Yeah. Right. 00:26:37.858 --> 00:26:43.526 - And we've used library spaces before, the downtown branch. But with the cut to library hours, it's a 00:26:43.526 --> 00:26:49.137 - lot harder. Those spaces are, there's just fewer of them. Especially the larger. But that's outside 00:26:49.137 --> 00:26:55.085 - of city limits. What? The Southwest branch is outside of city limits. I think we could be on the library. 00:26:55.085 --> 00:27:00.921 - I know this because I reached out to the library about doing one of those working group grants for some 00:27:00.921 --> 00:27:06.533 - native plantings. And where they really need the money is the Southwest branch. But it's outside of 00:27:06.533 --> 00:27:07.262 - city limits. 00:27:08.962 --> 00:27:16.453 - I'll keep air conditioning and public access and accessibility in mind, and I'll see if I can find anywhere 00:27:16.453 --> 00:27:23.597 - that's good. That's possible. Excellent. Awesome. Any other questions? Not a question, just a comment. 00:27:23.597 --> 00:27:30.811 - I think the mill is a good option. However, the door's locked at 5.30. Yeah. Yeah, it's not technically 00:27:30.811 --> 00:27:37.886 - open to the public either. Right. I'd have to check with people here about how that would work. Yeah. 00:27:38.594 --> 00:27:47.326 - Maybe not an option, but. Look, I'll switch here. Oh. It's fun. Yeah. The pavilion echoes so much. 00:27:47.326 --> 00:27:56.852 - That's it. It's so hard to hear in there. It could be in the band show. It'll be sweet. It'll be September. 00:27:56.852 --> 00:28:05.672 - It'll be like only like eight years old, right? It's a cool party. That's the fun part. We'll go to 00:28:05.672 --> 00:28:08.318 - Burn Park. Yeah, there we go. 00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:14.865 - Well, yeah, give it some thought. And if you come up with clever ideas, shoot an email or something. 00:28:14.865 --> 00:28:21.407 - Yeah. I think that this is also a really good indication that there are not enough indoor third spaces 00:28:21.407 --> 00:28:27.822 - in our community. Maybe that's something that our commission could push from there. There you go. So 00:28:27.822 --> 00:28:34.046 - now we've got a topic of discussion as well. Excellent. OK, anything else? Comments or questions? 00:28:36.994 --> 00:28:42.856 - Okay, well, we would normally go to a report from council, but Councilmember Morales is not here. Does 00:28:42.856 --> 00:28:48.548 - anyone have anything interesting that they've seen going on at council during this recess that they 00:28:48.548 --> 00:28:54.410 - want to mention to people? Does anything go on during recess? I think there's been a handful of hiring 00:28:54.410 --> 00:29:00.500 - committee meetings or something. That's about it. There is a draft ALPR ordinance that's been circulating. 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:05.566 - It's not public yet, but they are moving on something that potentially completely banned 00:29:06.242 --> 00:29:13.457 - ALPR is in the city, so that's good. How long is the recess? When do they come back? The end of the 00:29:13.457 --> 00:29:21.393 - month. Getting close. No, the end of the month. The end of the month. 22nd. Oh, so next week. Next Wednesday. 00:29:21.393 --> 00:29:28.824 - Maybe of limited relevance, not connected to that, but you just reminded me, as of today, New York has 00:29:28.824 --> 00:29:35.678 - imposed the first nationwide moratorium on data centers for an entire state. Yeah. Very proud. 00:29:35.810 --> 00:29:43.787 - Yeah, that's good. Exciting news, precedent set, so worth keeping an eye on. Indianapolis just did a 00:29:43.787 --> 00:29:51.765 - temporary moratorium as well. They've had a ton of them there, so anyway. I happen to be, as part of 00:29:51.765 --> 00:29:59.742 - my work with you, I happen to be reviewing the ordinances, municipal ordinances across the state for 00:30:02.690 --> 00:30:10.964 - Language related to best battery energy storage systems. I think I'm going to be reviewing solar arrays 00:30:10.964 --> 00:30:19.080 - coming up. And so I'm not too deep in it yet, but it did make me think of this group, because Indiana 00:30:19.080 --> 00:30:27.433 - doesn't really have, to my knowledge, or at least on this report, this analysis that I'm reading doesn't 00:30:27.433 --> 00:30:29.502 - have any language around. 00:30:30.946 --> 00:30:39.549 - or ordinance language related to technology. So it might be something worth exploring because we have 00:30:39.549 --> 00:30:48.573 - not too far away a data center coming in. So to think long and hard about what we would want our community 00:30:48.573 --> 00:30:55.742 - to, what rules we should have in place if we think they're coming. Yeah, absolutely. 00:31:01.506 --> 00:31:09.195 - Well, we'll move on to discussions, not the subject of resolution. So update on Kirkwood. I'll pass 00:31:09.195 --> 00:31:16.961 - it over to you Zach. Yeah. Ross present. Hello. Hello. Okay, yeah. So on Kirkwood, I mean, basically 00:31:16.961 --> 00:31:25.342 - just jumping on what you said, the mayor vetoed. So there was an ordinance passed that would have reinstated 00:31:25.342 --> 00:31:30.494 - the car-free Kirkwood program as our resolution kind of asked for. 00:31:30.626 --> 00:31:37.349 - The mayor passed 5-4. The mayor vetoed it in order for it to be overridden by the council. They need 00:31:37.349 --> 00:31:44.338 - six members to vote for it. It's not impossible. So if you feel so inclined, I would encourage everybody 00:31:44.338 --> 00:31:51.128 - to maybe write to the council members that voted no. There's some cases that you could make about why 00:31:51.128 --> 00:31:57.984 - that's a good thing. If you want to talk more about that, you can talk to me about it after this. I've 00:31:57.984 --> 00:31:59.582 - got some ideas on that. 00:32:00.066 --> 00:32:06.256 - kind of a group of us trying to encourage the council members to override the veto. But yeah, so that's 00:32:06.256 --> 00:32:12.505 - the main thing I just wanted to say. Like you mentioned, the mayor vetoed it, and we'll see what happens 00:32:12.505 --> 00:32:18.814 - next. Yeah. So the veto would have to take place, like you mentioned, at their July 22 meeting. So that's 00:32:18.814 --> 00:32:24.825 - all I had to say. Yeah. Nice. Thank you. I realize the next item here is commission priority finding 00:32:24.825 --> 00:32:28.158 - meeting. I think I already kind of went over that. Yes. 00:32:29.346 --> 00:32:34.616 - All right. Resolutions for first reading, 2026-06, minimizing light pollution and attaining dark sky 00:32:34.616 --> 00:32:39.991 - certification for Bloomington. So Zach, back to you. Yeah. So typically, we'll first read if you don't 00:32:39.991 --> 00:32:45.418 - do a long discussion. But considering this is a fairly complex one, we thought maybe it might be a good 00:32:45.418 --> 00:32:50.845 - idea to just kind of walk through briefly what it would do. So all of you have a package that I printed 00:32:50.845 --> 00:32:56.220 - off as a memorandum in there. If you didn't have time to read the whole thing, that's fine. But please 00:32:56.220 --> 00:32:59.038 - read it before our next meeting. That would be great. 00:32:59.234 --> 00:33:04.997 - Basically, what this resolution would do is it makes a whole bunch of changes to the UDO, so our zoning 00:33:04.997 --> 00:33:10.760 - code, to strengthen light pollution laws. I'll just briefly walk through some of that. I didn't prepare 00:33:10.760 --> 00:33:16.357 - anything in particular, but I'm just going to briefly walk through some of the main changes it would 00:33:16.357 --> 00:33:22.009 - do. It would change color temperature standards on public lights. If you look on page three, there is 00:33:22.009 --> 00:33:27.606 - a diagram of lighting temperatures measured in Kelvin. It would require all city lights to be at the 00:33:27.606 --> 00:33:28.382 - 3,000 Kelvin. 00:33:28.674 --> 00:33:34.793 - which is that line right here, which the American Medical Association and a bunch of environmental 00:33:34.793 --> 00:33:41.035 - organizations have said is you don't want anything higher than that, that's bad for things like bats 00:33:41.035 --> 00:33:47.401 - and birds migrating and things like that, and also bad for human health. A lot of the lights that have 00:33:47.401 --> 00:33:54.014 - been put in place on public lamps and things in recent years have been in the 4,000 to 5,000, 6,000 range. 00:33:54.370 --> 00:34:01.073 - Yeah, I just put one literally next to, I'm on a corner by Brian Carter, and it is like day. Yeah, they're 00:34:01.073 --> 00:34:07.464 - awful. Yeah, I agree. And you can tell what they've been put in place. So on that point, piggybacking 00:34:07.464 --> 00:34:14.292 - on that, this chart down here shows 311 complaints to the city about bright, glaring, annoying streetlights. 00:34:14.292 --> 00:34:20.933 - Sometime in 2022, the city started changing. It's from the old sodium lights that are like the old style. 00:34:20.933 --> 00:34:22.750 - In the decade prior to that, 00:34:23.170 --> 00:34:28.954 - they got, on average, about 11 complaints about bright or glaring streetlights a year. If you look at 00:34:28.954 --> 00:34:34.624 - 2022 and thereafter, and keeping in mind, 2026 is just through April. They've shot up to 100 a year 00:34:34.624 --> 00:34:40.294 - around that every single year. So they're extremely unpopular. People hate them, the newer, bright, 00:34:40.294 --> 00:34:45.851 - really glaring streetlights. So this would be popular with people, I think. But this chart alone, 00:34:45.851 --> 00:34:51.294 - I think, shows that. People really hate the really bright glaring lights because they're awful. 00:34:51.426 --> 00:34:57.896 - So that's one of the things it would do. It also, hold on, let me go back to my list. So I'm on page 00:34:57.896 --> 00:35:04.943 - two, I'm gonna read through the main things it does. Number two is an amortization schedule for non-compliant 00:35:04.943 --> 00:35:11.733 - fixtures. Basically what that means is it requires the city to change all of its lights that don't comply 00:35:11.733 --> 00:35:18.139 - with the regulation as written within 10 years. That's probably gonna be the hardest sell. The goal 00:35:18.139 --> 00:35:21.022 - of this is to get us to get dark sky status. 00:35:21.538 --> 00:35:27.528 - So I basically just took what the Dark Sky organization's rules are and wrote them into, and that is 00:35:27.528 --> 00:35:33.518 - one of the rules. So that will probably be one of the harder sells because you'll have to, that will 00:35:33.518 --> 00:35:39.568 - have a cost associated with it replacing all the streetlights. Dark Sky International though, just as 00:35:39.568 --> 00:35:45.558 - a point on that, is flexible with cities. If you can't, like there was a city, I think Breckenridge, 00:35:45.558 --> 00:35:50.718 - Colorado was recognized as a dark sky city, but couldn't quite make the 10 year thing. 00:35:50.946 --> 00:35:56.527 - but they were making good faith progress towards it, so they gave them a couple year extension. So they're 00:35:56.527 --> 00:36:01.743 - not like a super hardcore stickler on it. As long as you're making good faith effort to get towards 00:36:01.743 --> 00:36:07.115 - the goal, they're not gonna rescind your status. So that's probably the hardest sell, and I will admit 00:36:07.115 --> 00:36:12.330 - that. It also will restrict exterior uplighting, so lights shooting up straight in the air. There's 00:36:12.330 --> 00:36:16.190 - a very narrow exception for, it's already existing in the code for flags, 00:36:17.602 --> 00:36:24.349 - I would get rid of that for me, but politically that's a very, you can't say, they're trying to take 00:36:24.349 --> 00:36:31.029 - away my flag at the sound. Anyway, so I left that and I also left one for historical, like historic 00:36:31.029 --> 00:36:37.776 - buildings, but you have to have a lighting plant of some sort in place. Probably the strongest thing 00:36:37.776 --> 00:36:44.524 - is number four, which is, this comes from Dark Star International, would require all public lighting 00:36:44.524 --> 00:36:45.726 - to have a strict, 00:36:46.114 --> 00:36:51.485 - a really strong reason for it to be there. You couldn't just say, safety. And you have to say something 00:36:51.485 --> 00:36:56.650 - specific to that site that requires a light. That's another one. And on top of that, I added, which 00:36:56.650 --> 00:37:01.918 - goes beyond dark sky, a suggested thing that says, near environmentally sensitive areas, so wetlands, 00:37:01.918 --> 00:37:07.134 - creeks, and things like that, it would be even stronger. And basically, you would have to prove that 00:37:07.134 --> 00:37:12.299 - lighting is the only thing that can solve the problem, and that nothing else can solve it. And even 00:37:12.299 --> 00:37:15.294 - if you can put in a light, it would have to be the lowest 00:37:15.682 --> 00:37:22.720 - luminous brightness and the lowest color temperature possible for that thing. Number five is an extension 00:37:22.720 --> 00:37:29.691 - of the light curfew. So currently in the code, there's a curfew on lighting that is 11 p.m. for a couple 00:37:29.691 --> 00:37:36.463 - of categories. I would make it 10 p.m. for all categories, so they're extended all the way to a whole 00:37:36.463 --> 00:37:43.833 - bunch of different categories that aren't covered at all by light curfew, and move it up to 10 p.m. from 11 p. 00:37:43.833 --> 00:37:43.966 - m. 00:37:44.706 --> 00:37:50.891 - Finally, the last two illuminated signs would have stronger rules, which I just took directly out of 00:37:50.891 --> 00:37:57.016 - the Dark Sky rules. And seven is strengthening rules of light trespass, so that is lights going off 00:37:57.016 --> 00:38:03.385 - of your property into someone else's property. There's a lot more detail to it. I encourage you to read 00:38:03.385 --> 00:38:09.632 - through the resolution before our next meeting and read through this as well. For your help, starting 00:38:09.632 --> 00:38:12.510 - on page five, the part two, is the entire code 00:38:12.642 --> 00:38:18.330 - that I'm suggesting changing with the actual changes suggested in the code. The deletions are in red 00:38:18.330 --> 00:38:24.019 - and the additions are in yellow. That would be what we would be suggesting to the council. And based 00:38:24.019 --> 00:38:29.707 - on feedback that we've gotten, it seems like they want more specific wordings. That's what I did. So 00:38:29.707 --> 00:38:35.508 - this is something they could theoretically just copy and paste directly in the code if they wanted to. 00:38:35.508 --> 00:38:41.534 - They could obviously tweak it as they see fit. But the idea here is to really get this into code, ideally. 00:38:41.858 --> 00:38:47.890 - And I have spoken with a couple of council members already who seem very, very interested in this. Now, 00:38:47.890 --> 00:38:53.921 - whether that actually means it will get passed, I have no idea. Whether that actually means we're going 00:38:53.921 --> 00:38:59.779 - to get any of this in, I have no idea. But several members have expressed strong interest so far. So 00:38:59.779 --> 00:39:05.636 - that's where I will leave it for now. Do you have any questions? And this is a logistic question. My 00:39:05.636 --> 00:39:10.334 - understanding is because we're doing this, the EC is considering this resolution 00:39:11.106 --> 00:39:17.729 - like exactly this week the identical resolution meeting on Thursday yeah and we worked with them as 00:39:17.729 --> 00:39:24.418 - you can see on the rose illusion co-sponsor list I was the main author but I had quite a bit of help 00:39:24.418 --> 00:39:31.040 - from Alex Justin on three members of the EC as well we all got together and worked on this and went 00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:37.663 - through several drafts yeah any other questions or comments it's very complicated I understand like 00:39:37.663 --> 00:39:38.590 - it's a lot of 00:39:38.786 --> 00:39:44.239 - my technical jargon on lighting and stuff. A lot of that comes directly from dark sky. I will say the 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:49.639 - goal here is to get dark sky community status. That is the goal. My actual goal, that's the goal for 00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:55.252 - the city. My actual goal is to reduce light pollution. And I don't really care whether we get dark skies 00:39:55.252 --> 00:40:00.812 - or not. That'd be nice. That's like a cherry on top. This is one area where, and there's a lot of areas 00:40:00.812 --> 00:40:06.212 - where this is not the case, but this is one area that is rare where incremental, even little bits of 00:40:06.212 --> 00:40:08.190 - progress make a big difference here. 00:40:08.450 --> 00:40:15.058 - So even if we don't get all the way, even if we only get 50%, 75% of the way there, that's still a meaningful 00:40:15.058 --> 00:40:21.306 - reduction in light pollution. I think we have a human right to be able to see the night sky. And that's 00:40:21.306 --> 00:40:27.313 - being denied to most people who live in cities today. And I think that's not needed. So yeah. We're 00:40:27.313 --> 00:40:33.561 - right in that big, big migratory corridor, too, for a lot of migratory areas. Absolutely. And this came 00:40:33.561 --> 00:40:37.886 - up in our neighborhood, because we actually wanted an additional light. 00:40:38.338 --> 00:40:43.925 - because we had no sidewalks. And there was a corner that was terrifying because it was a blind corner. 00:40:43.925 --> 00:40:49.458 - And then the light that they put in was like, this is just day to them. We just wanted to not get hit 00:40:49.458 --> 00:40:55.046 - by cars. But it came up on our neighborhood that we were like, well, we want ones that don't mess with 00:40:55.046 --> 00:41:00.470 - the ability to see. Because they have the capped ones. Yeah, that would be another thing this would 00:41:00.470 --> 00:41:05.949 - do. It would fully define exactly how they have to be covered. And the covers wouldn't be that crazy 00:41:05.949 --> 00:41:07.902 - to install even on existing lights. 00:41:08.674 --> 00:41:14.315 - And because of right now, it just kind of vaguely defines it in the code, just with fully defining it 00:41:14.315 --> 00:41:19.901 - and not allowing any uplining at all. Or it has to come down, basically. Do you know how any of this 00:41:19.901 --> 00:41:25.541 - would be enforced with IU? And I say this as a resident who lives on the north side who is frequently 00:41:25.541 --> 00:41:31.127 - bothered by light pollution coming from the stadium. I'm curious how that falls into the... We can't 00:41:31.127 --> 00:41:33.118 - force IU to do anything. Of course. 00:41:33.634 --> 00:41:38.799 - that would be a big question mark on what's getting dark sky status. Because I've talked, and Alex has 00:41:38.799 --> 00:41:43.864 - as well with me, talked to the dark sky people, because I had a call with them just to go over this. 00:41:43.864 --> 00:41:48.929 - And they were very curious about how that would work out. It's a shame it's a meeting where we don't 00:41:48.929 --> 00:41:54.194 - have our IU representative with us. Because that would be my big question. Because I know that, at least 00:41:54.194 --> 00:41:59.359 - for me, that's the single biggest contributor to light pollution in my area. You could quite literally 00:41:59.359 --> 00:42:03.070 - see it from my backyard. Absolutely. And it's pretty glaring and obvious. 00:42:03.202 --> 00:42:09.379 - That'll be one of the biggest roadblocks, so that's for sure. It'd be interesting to see how other college 00:42:09.379 --> 00:42:15.441 - towns have partnered with their universities. It strikes me that if this were carefully presented, there 00:42:15.441 --> 00:42:21.330 - is a really good opportunity for political inclusiveness here. I think it's very easy to make a pitch 00:42:21.330 --> 00:42:27.449 - that is broadly appealing to most people with the exclusion of the kinds of holdouts that I could imagine 00:42:27.449 --> 00:42:32.414 - would be private property owners who want to do whatever they want with their lights. 00:42:33.090 --> 00:42:39.636 - that is something I think you need to be more. There's a needle to thread there. But I think at the 00:42:39.636 --> 00:42:46.313 - same time, I can imagine it's easy to go in the opposite direction where I think I share exactly your 00:42:46.313 --> 00:42:52.990 - goals and for probably identical reasons. My concern would be that if we were to phrase things in the 00:42:52.990 --> 00:42:58.750 - way that I think actually reflect our motivations, it would be easy to alienate people. 00:42:59.234 --> 00:43:05.847 - To your point, this does not very little to private property. But I guess what I'm saying is I think 00:43:05.847 --> 00:43:12.394 - this is a great idea. I think it's very easy to present this as practical, both in terms of overall 00:43:12.394 --> 00:43:19.072 - human environment and ecological purposes. I think it's a mechanical change that's relatively simple. 00:43:19.072 --> 00:43:25.750 - It really requires will and money. The longer-term strategy is I'm thinking about this in relation to 00:43:25.750 --> 00:43:28.958 - something like IU, which is that weird carve out 00:43:29.058 --> 00:43:36.501 - like literally the whole quadrant of the city, is that if you were to actually start making progress 00:43:36.501 --> 00:43:44.461 - on this, it would require a longer-term strategy, but you could exert pressure through success and evidence 00:43:44.461 --> 00:43:51.830 - of mitigation and improvement in the city that might leverage IU into making changes down the road. 00:43:51.830 --> 00:43:57.726 - I'll probably be more willing to follow than lead in this situation, especially 00:43:58.338 --> 00:44:05.651 - current admin but like yeah I think it's I think it's very doable personally. First comment thank you 00:44:05.651 --> 00:44:12.821 - very much for providing all of the information and the expert that's that was very helpful I really 00:44:12.821 --> 00:44:20.062 - appreciate that. Second comment I fully intend to vote to pass this to a second reading because I do 00:44:20.062 --> 00:44:23.934 - believe it's within the purview of our commission and 00:44:25.218 --> 00:44:34.120 - I think in order for me to vote to pass it at the second reading and for it to have a chance of the 00:44:34.120 --> 00:44:43.646 - city council actually considering passing a version of it, there are some changes I would want to see. OK. 00:44:44.770 --> 00:44:54.373 - or perhaps some more information I would want. So some of these recommendations to the UDO changes that 00:44:54.373 --> 00:45:03.699 - mention they exceed the dark sky community requirements. I would be interested in knowing, so why do 00:45:03.699 --> 00:45:13.118 - they exceed that minimum set? And who came up with that metric? And why did you decide to go farther? 00:45:13.538 --> 00:45:21.015 - To me, I think it's good to go farther when you can. And I saw areas where we could. But my concern 00:45:21.015 --> 00:45:28.567 - is that by going farther than what is just required, it might be pushing too far where it'll just be 00:45:28.567 --> 00:45:36.493 - completely taken off the table. I haven't read this, but I do need to spend more time with it. But that's 00:45:36.493 --> 00:45:40.606 - just one initial consideration. A couple other things. 00:45:41.058 --> 00:45:49.328 - I'm curious about, so I'm very interested in seeing that Flagstaff has attained the certification. And 00:45:49.328 --> 00:45:57.517 - I'm wondering, so the requirement of illuminated signs being turned off an hour after sunset, I don't 00:45:57.517 --> 00:46:05.627 - see that being popular or council wanting to vote for that. And I'm wondering, does Flagstaff really 00:46:05.627 --> 00:46:11.006 - turn off all of their signs? I think so. And ma'am, we're talking. 00:46:11.842 --> 00:46:16.067 - Primarily, like billboards. Billboards, yeah. That's what we're talking, not... Billboards, not... 00:46:16.067 --> 00:46:20.377 - You know, there are many other signs. Big sections for, like, roads, security, signs that are needed 00:46:20.377 --> 00:46:24.730 - for safety and security. But, like, signs on Kirkwood, like, for businesses that have neon there. I'm 00:46:24.730 --> 00:46:29.297 - not sure I'd have to look into that. It's primarily billboards that they're talking about, though. Because 00:46:29.297 --> 00:46:33.564 - I don't think those would violate... I think what we're talking about, you know, you've got the big 00:46:33.564 --> 00:46:37.832 - upward shining lights on those billboards, whereas if you've got, like, you know, yeah, you've just 00:46:37.832 --> 00:46:40.734 - got letters that are illuminated, I don't think that would... Okay. 00:46:40.898 --> 00:46:48.468 - OK, good. Well, then, yeah, I would need to know more about what the illuminated signs is. And also, 00:46:48.468 --> 00:46:56.638 - yeah, if all the cities that actually have this certification, do they actually meet all these requirements? 00:46:56.638 --> 00:47:04.207 - Which of them have received variances? One other thing, and I hate to say this because I love it and 00:47:04.207 --> 00:47:10.878 - I think it's lovely, but the first whereas clause, I would probably move to strike that. 00:47:11.234 --> 00:47:23.386 - Because I think the data-driven arguments in the following clauses are so strong, like the you report 00:47:23.386 --> 00:47:35.419 - complaints. And this, again, is a lovely paragraph. But I wonder if it might undermine the following 00:47:35.419 --> 00:47:40.542 - arguments for people who are already maybe 00:47:43.298 --> 00:47:52.062 - not looking to support it, if they might just roll their eyes. So those are just some things that I'll 00:47:52.062 --> 00:48:00.656 - look into more, and I would like to talk about more before voting to pass this. But I will certainly 00:48:00.656 --> 00:48:09.250 - pass it for a second reading. OK. Hi, Alex. So since I helped work on some comments to some of those 00:48:09.250 --> 00:48:10.526 - things, first, 00:48:11.042 --> 00:48:20.115 - that first wear-as-clothes used to be three wear-as-clothes in the first draft. So this is the paired 00:48:20.115 --> 00:48:29.367 - back first, if that helps. And it was beautiful prose, but we had a similar feeling of like, this might 00:48:29.367 --> 00:48:38.974 - be too much. And so I will say having talked to some other people about it, they were very engaged in like, 00:48:41.506 --> 00:48:48.437 - the humanity of the rights and the spiritual aspect of it. So I do think that that clause does speak 00:48:48.437 --> 00:48:55.299 - to people. But personally, I'm a data-driven person. So I read it, and I was like, I recognize that 00:48:55.299 --> 00:49:02.298 - this is beautiful, but it doesn't speak to me. So I have a very similar take, but I know that it does 00:49:02.298 --> 00:49:07.582 - speak to. It will speak to others, but I'm just dumb, me, and maybe not you. 00:49:08.578 --> 00:49:15.461 - The Dark Skies is changing their certification process. So one of the reasons to do this now is that 00:49:15.461 --> 00:49:22.480 - potentially gaining Dark Skies certification could be a reason that would help get it past that people 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:29.431 - would be interested. I know cities sometimes like being bicycle friendly USA and all of these things. 00:49:29.431 --> 00:49:36.246 - So we need to get this moving. If we don't get it moving, the new Dark Skies certification is going 00:49:36.246 --> 00:49:37.950 - to be performance based. 00:49:38.370 --> 00:49:45.075 - where they will actually measure how much darker it is. And between the presence of IU and our proximity 00:49:45.075 --> 00:49:51.460 - to Indianapolis, they just flat out told us that it would probably be impossible for us to get full 00:49:51.460 --> 00:49:57.973 - certification. But they did say, just to be clear, that if we show good faith effort on these current 00:49:57.973 --> 00:50:04.486 - status, we can get it if we are moving within the next year or so, approximately. Yeah. But that also 00:50:04.486 --> 00:50:07.806 - is potentially kind of a reason why where we can to 00:50:07.906 --> 00:50:16.922 - go a little farther, because we already can't get to be a dark city from a performance-based standpoint. 00:50:16.922 --> 00:50:25.509 - So if there is a place where we can go a little farther, I think that there is some rationale to do 00:50:25.509 --> 00:50:34.181 - it. And we should weigh benefits and costs of going farther, but I was generally supportive of that, 00:50:34.181 --> 00:50:36.414 - to the idea that it being 00:50:37.122 --> 00:50:47.595 - kind of uncontentious, I actually expect there to be pushback on the idea of safety. In this process, 00:50:47.595 --> 00:50:58.171 - Zach primarily, but I mean, I did too. We looked at trying to find evidence that lighter equals safer, 00:50:58.171 --> 00:51:01.662 - and there isn't really much. But, 00:51:02.338 --> 00:51:10.738 - people think that there is. I can tell you, I came to IU in 2006 as an undergrad and campus is much, 00:51:10.738 --> 00:51:19.222 - much brighter and they, you know, during my undergraduate years, they had a very concerted effort to, 00:51:19.222 --> 00:51:27.871 - you know, light up the dumb worlds because it was deemed to be an unsafe location when how dark it was. 00:51:27.871 --> 00:51:32.030 - And the lighting on campus has grown considerably 00:51:32.706 --> 00:51:41.490 - in the name of safety. And I think that there will be pushback in the name of safety. Much of that, 00:51:41.490 --> 00:51:50.451 - I think, will not be. I don't think that, in general, the pushback against decreasing lighting in the 00:51:50.451 --> 00:51:59.674 - name of safety is data-driven, that removing this lighting makes things less safe. There are exceptions, 00:51:59.674 --> 00:52:02.046 - obviously, but people will 00:52:02.178 --> 00:52:10.104 - feel very passionately that lighting in places, the lighting on your street corner, that it makes people 00:52:10.104 --> 00:52:17.954 - feel very passionately that, oh, you want to take away the lighting. People are going to start breaking 00:52:17.954 --> 00:52:25.880 - into businesses. I don't know. I expect there to be some level of pushback on that front. I think that's 00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:30.334 - exactly right, personally. The reason I emphasize the idea 00:52:31.010 --> 00:52:38.440 - property owners, because that's an intransigent sort of position that has basically only a 00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:46.686 - sort of principle-based counter-argument, where there's no sort of way to make an argument rooted in 00:52:46.686 --> 00:52:55.014 - other kinds of arsenals. And I think with the safety argument, it is absolutely available to kind of, 00:52:55.014 --> 00:53:00.158 - A, I think you're correct in terms of my understanding is that 00:53:00.578 --> 00:53:08.493 - Light versus no light does matter, but the form and sort of shape and expression of the light are absolutely 00:53:08.493 --> 00:53:15.973 - manipulable in a way that can preserve both of those concerns. I think that to your point, you arrived 00:53:15.973 --> 00:53:23.307 - on campus at a time also when LEDs were becoming available, cheaper and different nature of lighting 00:53:23.307 --> 00:53:24.542 - being installed. 00:53:25.122 --> 00:53:33.396 - I guess I just think that kind of an argument, I think you're right, it will be the number one pushback. 00:53:33.396 --> 00:53:41.275 - But I also think it's open to really robust kinds of argument that are not against it, but that can 00:53:41.275 --> 00:53:48.446 - demonstrate it's possible to preserve both concerns. That's not the right way to put that. 00:53:50.274 --> 00:53:55.681 - And I think it's about doing that carefully and effectively. That's what I've meant by that. I think 00:53:55.681 --> 00:54:01.034 - it was on Dark Sky's website that there was a picture that we found in this process where they show 00:54:01.034 --> 00:54:06.440 - a garage with a bright light shining from the garage out, and they show a person standing behind the 00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:11.847 - light, and they're completely invisible, and then they turn the light off. And there's a person that 00:54:11.847 --> 00:54:17.521 - just appears. Yes, it does. Yeah, I mean, you need to be smart about how you light things for the purpose 00:54:17.521 --> 00:54:18.110 - of safety. 00:54:18.210 --> 00:54:26.577 - Sorry. Two things that, well, one thing that I would like to know more about is in this 311 data, was 00:54:26.577 --> 00:54:34.944 - there an overall increase in all 311 calls or you report tickets that would potentially explain this? 00:54:34.944 --> 00:54:41.342 - Not to the scale. OK. Not to the scale. I think it's worth mentioning in some 00:54:41.506 --> 00:54:48.129 - capacity that this is independent of just more people being aware of this resource and utilizing it. 00:54:48.129 --> 00:54:54.817 - Yeah, because we're talking about the timetiming. Yeah. And I think on the safety thing, I'm not sure 00:54:54.817 --> 00:55:01.374 - how this would work into the resolution. I think this more works into the way that we talk about it 00:55:01.374 --> 00:55:07.931 - in session or in any kind of outreach to council or anybody else about this, is that there is data, 00:55:07.931 --> 00:55:10.750 - pedestrian safety data for young children. 00:55:10.978 --> 00:55:17.088 - It's part of why our schools start so late is because when kids are waiting for the bus, when it's darker, 00:55:17.088 --> 00:55:22.912 - there are more instances of people hitting children with their cars. Now, the solution to that is not 00:55:22.912 --> 00:55:28.736 - pollute the skies with lights. It's people to not drive dangerously in general, but especially around 00:55:28.736 --> 00:55:34.675 - children. And like I said, in my neighborhood, it was literally that it was a terrifying corner to walk 00:55:34.675 --> 00:55:37.758 - on, because people would just whip around the corner. 00:55:38.210 --> 00:55:44.640 - and it was dark, and you would either be like a deer or someone and their dog. And you're like, maybe 00:55:44.640 --> 00:55:51.070 - tonight I die. So I think making it clear that this is not about like, no, we're not saying no street 00:55:51.070 --> 00:55:56.870 - lights so that you stand in the dark waiting for the bus, but that those lights do not need 00:55:56.870 --> 00:56:03.237 - to be illuminating the heavens in order for somebody to not hit you with their car. Because there is 00:56:03.237 --> 00:56:07.902 - data around that, and that does drive local policy decisions around like, 00:56:08.130 --> 00:56:13.648 - when our elementary schools start because we should actually be on the central time zone and we're not. 00:56:13.648 --> 00:56:19.112 - To be clear, this is not, I know you guys know this, but for the record, this is not about eliminating 00:56:19.112 --> 00:56:23.940 - all street lights. It's about being smarter about where we place them and not having them, 00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:29.246 - like you said, illuminate the heavens as well as pointing the light downward instead of everywhere. 00:56:29.666 --> 00:56:36.509 - and changing the color temperature. Yeah. I don't think that it necessarily changes the context of the 00:56:36.509 --> 00:56:43.219 - resolution itself, but just how we communicate it, whatever we communicate to Castle or other bodies 00:56:43.219 --> 00:56:49.995 - in trying to drum up support for it if it passes. Legislators are the people who are the most excited 00:56:49.995 --> 00:56:57.104 - about, quote unquote, data-driven language. People who are not in that population are much more interested 00:56:57.104 --> 00:56:59.230 - in felt experiences of reality. 00:57:00.002 --> 00:57:05.290 - For them, you can turn a light on and have it turned off, and they'll be like, I like this other one 00:57:05.290 --> 00:57:10.892 - better. So I think it's very important. Again, that's what I meant with my initial comment about messaging 00:57:10.892 --> 00:57:16.284 - and not starting in the wrong place and not being like, well, look, you don't know what you're talking 00:57:16.284 --> 00:57:21.625 - about because the data shows that you're actually, people are like, no, and I hate you now. So that's 00:57:21.625 --> 00:57:24.766 - the kind of thing. That's like creating defensiveness. Yes. 00:57:25.090 --> 00:57:32.903 - If there's one thing in my entire history as an educator and as a member of my family that you want 00:57:32.903 --> 00:57:41.264 - to avoid, it's getting people's hatles up. I think introducing this carefully around exactly this, because 00:57:41.264 --> 00:57:49.077 - people will go buck wild if you challenge their sense of safety of their children in particular, as 00:57:49.077 --> 00:57:50.718 - you're pointing out. 00:57:51.106 --> 00:57:58.267 - You'll just shoot yourself in the foot instantly if you were to do that. I think there are probably 00:57:58.267 --> 00:58:05.500 - ways to express this in terms of strengthening safety and strengthening other things because I think 00:58:05.500 --> 00:58:12.876 - that's actually true. It's not like a marketing approach, it's more about ensuring that whatever ethos 00:58:12.876 --> 00:58:19.966 - it is that you and I might have in terms of right to the next guy and concern about other species, 00:58:20.194 --> 00:58:26.385 - there are also these other things that are there. Well, driving down a dark street and then suddenly 00:58:26.385 --> 00:58:32.515 - there's a 5,000 lumens light is also not very, it's a disconcerting experience. And I mean, like, I 00:58:32.515 --> 00:58:39.258 - think that this image that you put in here is incredibly compelling because even though this is a photograph, 00:58:39.258 --> 00:58:45.633 - I am having a visceral reaction. I know, I made them too, right? I'm like, oh God, these are the lights 00:58:45.633 --> 00:58:46.430 - that make me 00:58:46.594 --> 00:58:51.955 - And that is a life-friendly thing. They literally trigger migraines for me, but that I'm like, make 00:58:51.955 --> 00:58:57.369 - my teachers. People associate those with environmentalism, though, also. The super bright ones? Yes. 00:58:57.369 --> 00:59:02.997 - Because those were installed for environmental efficiency, people associate these really negative things 00:59:02.997 --> 00:59:08.894 - with environmental and ecological initiatives, partly because of canny strategy of opponents to those things. 00:59:09.058 --> 00:59:15.246 - Yes, I actually think there's a there's a win-win. I'm so sorry to use that language, but like here 00:59:15.246 --> 00:59:21.558 - in exactly what you're pointing out. It's actually it's why I think this is such a strong idea. Yeah. 00:59:21.558 --> 00:59:26.014 - Yeah. This graphic like I would I think go so far. Yeah. We want these. 00:59:26.082 --> 00:59:32.734 - It's not on the purview of this, but it makes me think of cars that have those LED lights that are genuinely 00:59:32.734 --> 00:59:39.020 - dangerous when you're driving, particularly if they're right behind you because you can't see anything 00:59:39.020 --> 00:59:45.307 - in front of you. Personally, I have a similarly very strong reaction to those because, again, I'm very 00:59:45.307 --> 00:59:51.654 - light sensitive and it makes it hard for me to drive at night. Those are the arguments that really pull 00:59:51.654 --> 00:59:56.048 - people in, I think. Because I think a lot of people have those kinds of 00:59:56.048 --> 01:00:02.209 - of experiences with this type of thing. We're not going to take weird street light. We're going to make 01:00:02.209 --> 01:00:08.430 - it not feel like it's weird. We want to make it more pleasant. Yeah. I genuinely think if it's presented 01:00:08.430 --> 01:00:14.414 - well, this will be extremely popular, the main components of this. But I do think that, back to what 01:00:14.414 --> 01:00:20.397 - you're saying, it doesn't matter what the data show. If you feel unsafe walking through Dunn Meadow, 01:00:20.397 --> 01:00:25.374 - and there's all kinds of Dunn Meadow, Dunn Woods, you're not going to care what the 01:00:25.570 --> 01:00:33.139 - what the technical situation is going on out there. So I think it's just this, I think the challenge 01:00:33.139 --> 01:00:40.858 - is gonna be the language that we use because this is about how people, this is about people's feelings 01:00:40.858 --> 01:00:48.351 - around safety. And so it doesn't matter, you can tell them all day long that you are actually safer 01:00:48.351 --> 01:00:53.822 - because we're using this particular lower level light. So I, yeah. Yeah. 01:00:53.986 --> 01:01:01.955 - Yeah, but it's also an opportunity. I mean, not that resolutions are meant to be tools, but we're going 01:01:01.955 --> 01:01:09.618 - to have to educate a lot of education about, no, it's not less safe. It's OK. An angle of this that 01:01:09.618 --> 01:01:17.817 - we have not discussed this evening that resonates with me, too, is that also if we are using lower wattage 01:01:17.817 --> 01:01:23.870 - lighting and removing excessive lighting things, we reduce energy consumption. 01:01:24.002 --> 01:01:31.261 - Yes, as well. So at a time when city budgets are particularly limited, we can kind of have that long-term 01:01:31.261 --> 01:01:38.315 - view of it would reduce operating constants. I think there was also a, one of you might have to remind 01:01:38.315 --> 01:01:45.438 - me of the exact details of this, but there was some benefit related to the length of the pollen season. 01:01:45.634 --> 01:01:52.071 - Yes. Doing this would actually reduce how much people suffer from pollen allergies. It's a weird connection 01:01:52.071 --> 01:01:58.389 - you wouldn't expect, but that's when we talk about how we sell it. Artificial light tonight significantly 01:01:58.389 --> 01:02:04.468 - extends the duration of the pollen. It's not like a small ink. It was a study that came out this year 01:02:04.468 --> 01:02:10.727 - thanks to, I think, Alex sent it to me, or Matt from the EC sent it to me. There was a dramatic increase 01:02:10.727 --> 01:02:15.614 - in the pollen season because of artificial lighting, way more than they expected. 01:02:16.066 --> 01:02:22.479 - Again, I think like this image is like, that is something that people will be like, to breathe. And 01:02:22.479 --> 01:02:28.892 - one thing I want to point out for staff is that we can lead the application process. The commission 01:02:28.892 --> 01:02:35.369 - can, according to Dark Sky. So it's not something necessarily that staff would have to do. We can do 01:02:35.369 --> 01:02:41.974 - that ourselves. And that's also for the commission as well to know, a good thing to know. What was the 01:02:41.974 --> 01:02:45.886 - other? Oh, on your energy thing that you were talking about, 01:02:46.114 --> 01:02:52.254 - The dark sky told us during our meeting, this is anecdotal, but Jacksonville, Wyoming airport got certified, 01:02:52.254 --> 01:02:58.000 - what was it, an airport could get certified as a dark sky airport, but again, but they said that when 01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:03.633 - they converted over to dark sky lighting, their energy use for lighting decreased 30%. I mean, it's 01:03:03.633 --> 01:03:09.492 - just for lighting, that's not all energy, but still, that's a substantial decrease in energy costs over 01:03:09.492 --> 01:03:15.294 - time. So even though it might have some costs initially upfront to change lighting to conform to code, 01:03:15.458 --> 01:03:22.815 - So the new code, if this ever gets passed long term, the savings would be substantial. So. It's also 01:03:22.815 --> 01:03:30.099 - extra impressive considering that airports are meant to be these giant beacons of light so that the 01:03:30.099 --> 01:03:37.528 - pilots can see it from miles away. That's impressive. Yeah. Did you have? Yeah. So there's a lot more 01:03:37.528 --> 01:03:44.958 - we could go into, but yeah, that's legit. I have one question. So for the light trespass, do you know 01:03:45.154 --> 01:03:54.369 - like this is obviously I would think a it's driven by like citizen complaint if it's currently happening 01:03:54.369 --> 01:04:03.232 - and so if there was like an increase in the restrictiveness do you know like how many complaints the 01:04:03.232 --> 01:04:12.798 - city's currently getting on like yeah I have to look into that or like how much staff potentially could yeah 01:04:12.994 --> 01:04:18.065 - you know, increase costs, if that was like. For sure. I mean, I could look into that. The main thing 01:04:18.065 --> 01:04:23.186 - that would do with that is for future development. I mean, there is, things would have to comply with 01:04:23.186 --> 01:04:28.206 - the amortization requirements. So things would have to comply within 10 years. That's primarily for 01:04:28.206 --> 01:04:29.662 - public streetlights, though. 01:04:30.082 --> 01:04:34.453 - the amortization requirement. This is all lighting fixtures. So on private property, there's not an 01:04:34.453 --> 01:04:39.043 - amortization requirement. So it would be, primarily for new developments, we'd have to comply with this, 01:04:39.043 --> 01:04:43.545 - is the main thing. So they would, when you go through the planning commission or whatever you have to- 01:04:43.545 --> 01:04:47.916 - So it would be during the planning process? Yes. It's not like there would be on the back end a lot 01:04:47.916 --> 01:04:52.418 - of potential staff- I don't think there would be a lot. I mean, technically, you might be able to file 01:04:52.418 --> 01:04:56.964 - a complaint or something like that. I mean, I think you can now, because there are light trespass rules 01:04:56.964 --> 01:04:58.494 - now. These are just stronger ones. 01:04:59.234 --> 01:05:06.329 - So I don't anticipate a substantial increase in that, because we're just slightly changing the rules. 01:05:06.329 --> 01:05:13.563 - It would be more newer developments. Yeah. I can't find it now, but one thing that I thought was really 01:05:13.563 --> 01:05:20.797 - cool, in my head, I pictured it being creating a corridor of dark skies. And I assume that meant across 01:05:20.797 --> 01:05:27.614 - the nation. And so I was like, that's a really neat concept. And I don't think that's going to be 01:05:28.130 --> 01:05:34.413 - But it's a really neat piece to consider in the overall goal. Yeah, so the idea was that IU, 01:05:34.413 --> 01:05:41.237 - number one, we have an astronomy department here with the Kirkwood Observatory. And we're surrounded 01:05:41.237 --> 01:05:48.129 - by state forests and state parks that are relatively dark. We could become, if we do this right, play 01:05:48.129 --> 01:05:54.885 - this right, we could become an astrotourism destination, theoretically. That's one angle that I was 01:05:54.885 --> 01:05:55.966 - trying to push. 01:05:57.250 --> 01:06:05.537 - And I mean, as a sort of community partners or people to tap into, I have learned about this from birders, 01:06:05.537 --> 01:06:13.747 - people that travel up and down that Northwest corridor in the migration times to go see particular birds. 01:06:13.747 --> 01:06:21.648 - That's how I've learned about turn off your outside lights during this period of time and things like 01:06:21.648 --> 01:06:24.126 - that. So that's an impassioned. 01:06:24.546 --> 01:06:30.403 - group of people that know a lot about this, that are a potential partner. If there are communities in 01:06:30.403 --> 01:06:36.318 - the city that are engaged in that hobby. Yeah. We have a lab on IU's campus, the Kettersen Lab, that's 01:06:36.318 --> 01:06:42.176 - an expert in bird strikes. And lighting, in particular, is what causes bird strikes during margarita. 01:06:42.176 --> 01:06:48.033 - Birds hitting buildings. So lighting at night is what they signed off. They wrote a letter in support 01:06:48.033 --> 01:06:53.374 - of the rodenticide thing. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I'll look on their side in front of them. 01:06:53.666 --> 01:06:59.114 - Yeah, I think she would. And just worth mentioning, I did talk to the IU astronomy department. They 01:06:59.114 --> 01:07:04.779 - were like super on board, so I'm hoping they'll be writing a letter. For obvious reasons, it would help 01:07:04.779 --> 01:07:10.226 - them recruit. And also because there's a thing in here suggesting, because you require a monitoring 01:07:10.226 --> 01:07:16.055 - program to monitor whether or not you're having an effect. So I suggested to them, would you be interested 01:07:16.055 --> 01:07:20.958 - if they were very much on board about having maybe a student project to monitor lighting? 01:07:21.730 --> 01:07:27.335 - long-term. So I did float that with them because of the resource that we have in towns. We might as 01:07:27.335 --> 01:07:33.053 - well use them. They didn't obviously confirm, but they said they would be interested. So that's worth 01:07:33.053 --> 01:07:38.714 - mentioning. I could add one positive project that we're working on here. So ESD is providing funding 01:07:38.714 --> 01:07:44.376 - to Parks and Rec to install a wildlife-friendly solar light aggregator. Oh, that's awesome. And by a 01:07:44.376 --> 01:07:50.261 - manufacturer called Stepco. OK. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Can you send me your phone number? I appreciate 01:07:50.261 --> 01:07:51.102 - it. Thank you. 01:07:53.090 --> 01:07:59.883 - I suppose I have one question, and I wonder if anyone here can speak to this. The motivation for this 01:07:59.883 --> 01:08:06.610 - question is entirely anecdotal, so maybe someone knows more about this than me. But the more I think 01:08:06.610 --> 01:08:13.403 - about it, the more concern I have that, as I understand it, this would apply to everyone, commercial, 01:08:13.403 --> 01:08:20.129 - municipal, and residential property owner, ordinary type person. That's the way it would be put into 01:08:20.129 --> 01:08:20.862 - effect is, 01:08:21.186 --> 01:08:25.710 - I own my house, I own my yard, I go to Home Depot, buy this light, install it, and then I get a bill 01:08:25.710 --> 01:08:30.413 - or a warning from the city, that kind of a thing? No. Okay. To a certain extent, like on light trespass, 01:08:30.413 --> 01:08:35.027 - I think that might be the main thing. Everything else, it does not apply to single-family residential, 01:08:35.027 --> 01:08:39.641 - for the most part. If I'm recalling correctly, it's been a while since I wrote everything, but I don't 01:08:39.641 --> 01:08:44.165 - think it applies to single-family. I intentionally avoided targeting single-family residential being 01:08:44.165 --> 01:08:46.046 - multi-family. That's what my question is. 01:08:46.402 --> 01:08:52.535 - I think some of the light trespass rules would apply, and there's also a general limit on the amount 01:08:52.535 --> 01:08:58.608 - of lumens per acre, but it's so high that it wouldn't, unless someone's shooting a spotlight in the 01:08:58.608 --> 01:09:04.984 - air, it wouldn't impact it. Okay, because that's the American sort of Rage Against the Machine principle 01:09:04.984 --> 01:09:11.664 - of I'll do whatever I want, I think is the source of a lot of revenge effects for ostensibly well-intentioned 01:09:11.664 --> 01:09:16.158 - things that actually make people be like, I don't want some faceless city 01:09:16.738 --> 01:09:23.952 - representative coming to my house and, you know, shaking their finger at me for putting a light in a 01:09:23.952 --> 01:09:31.308 - way that I want on my property. This is the United States. I should be able to do what I want. I think 01:09:31.308 --> 01:09:38.665 - people don't tend to do that unless they're being challenged. And then they're like, I'll do whatever. 01:09:38.665 --> 01:09:45.950 - And then they react that way. Yeah, in particular. This is like very anecdotal, but I also think that 01:09:46.434 --> 01:09:55.931 - there is, I appreciate that it doesn't focus on residential. I think because it's proportionally, what 01:09:55.931 --> 01:10:05.152 - they're doing is relatively small. But also, I started looking into the ticket data on snow removal 01:10:05.152 --> 01:10:15.294 - tickets. And again, anecdotally, I have intentions of doing proper analysis when things are quiet in my life. 01:10:15.426 --> 01:10:23.287 - noticed a pattern that is not, I cannot confirm, but a pattern of residential homes being ticketed and 01:10:23.287 --> 01:10:31.376 - developments and commercial properties getting a warning. And so I think that if we included residential, 01:10:31.376 --> 01:10:39.542 - the way that it would potentially play out in enforcement is that the enforcement would disproportionately 01:10:39.542 --> 01:10:43.358 - fall on the smallest contributors to the problem. 01:10:45.794 --> 01:10:57.120 - That's a larger issue in how these things play out in code. But hopefully I'll have more data on that 01:10:57.120 --> 01:11:08.446 - before the next snow season. OK. So yeah, from a logistic standpoint, so EC is meeting this Thursday, 01:11:08.446 --> 01:11:15.774 - right? Yeah. And they're going to do their first reading of this. 01:11:16.130 --> 01:11:21.645 - You know, if we pass this here today, you know, we won't revisit it until we have that joint session. 01:11:21.645 --> 01:11:27.052 - We do have another meeting for B costs in between then and now. So that gives us an opportunity. If 01:11:27.052 --> 01:11:32.837 - we had amendments that we wanted to do, we could do it there. The way to do this is a little bit different 01:11:32.837 --> 01:11:38.406 - than usual. We probably at least want to know what's coming down the pipe a little bit and try to give 01:11:38.406 --> 01:11:44.137 - EC a heads up of what kind of amendments we might want to make. Because they're not going to have another 01:11:44.137 --> 01:11:44.894 - meeting until 01:11:45.154 --> 01:11:51.753 - the joint meeting with this date of August 18th works for me. So we've got to thread the needle a little 01:11:51.753 --> 01:11:58.225 - bit, but I think if there's some of us who want to make their own, there's certainly ways to make that 01:11:58.225 --> 01:12:04.635 - happen. So we've done this in the past with some resolutions, especially more complicated ones, where 01:12:04.635 --> 01:12:11.108 - people make a copy of the spreadsheet and then send reference to the line numbers and say, here's what 01:12:11.108 --> 01:12:13.182 - I would propose as an amendment. 01:12:13.698 --> 01:12:18.912 - And if we get those all in a relatively short amount of time, we can sort of correlate them and try 01:12:18.912 --> 01:12:24.282 - to figure out, OK, here are the big pieces. And try to figure out a plan. Maybe at the end of the day, 01:12:24.282 --> 01:12:29.600 - EC has to do a special meeting or something before the joint meeting to have it. And if the membranes 01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:34.814 - aren't too numerous or lengthy, we could also have them at the same time. We could have them at the 01:12:34.814 --> 01:12:40.185 - joint meeting. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But it would be good to know ahead of time what's coming to it. 01:12:40.185 --> 01:12:43.678 - They're not seeing stuff for the first time. I thought about that. 01:12:44.098 --> 01:12:50.140 - And of course, you have to do this all the way that's compliant with open rule. Yeah. I would request 01:12:50.140 --> 01:12:56.418 - that you provide it. If you have an amendment to suggest, that's fine. Please suggest it. But in writing, 01:12:56.418 --> 01:13:02.519 - maybe before our next meeting, maybe, I don't know, ideally. Obviously, we can't make that a rule, but 01:13:02.519 --> 01:13:08.975 - that would be, I think, ideal. Could we compile any suggested amendments in a letter to the other commission 01:13:08.975 --> 01:13:12.766 - and transmit it to the other commission following that meeting? 01:13:13.634 --> 01:13:19.416 - Yeah, we could, but we wouldn't even have to. We could just, you know, I could, whatever we, you know, 01:13:19.416 --> 01:13:25.254 - if we voted some amendments or something, I would just email it to them. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So make sure 01:13:25.254 --> 01:13:30.923 - that this moves on correctly. Can I make a motion that we consider this resolution for a person? Oh, 01:13:30.923 --> 01:13:35.582 - yeah. That's a great idea. Second it. All right, with the motion, I have a second. 01:13:35.938 --> 01:13:41.884 - I said, I can second, yeah. Perfect. And this is to consider this resolution for first reading and to 01:13:41.884 --> 01:13:47.713 - advance it to a second reading. I also want us to get so you don't have the next thing and be like, 01:13:47.713 --> 01:13:53.659 - oh, we never acted out. We never brought it in. That's right. That's right. Excellent. OK. All right. 01:13:53.659 --> 01:13:59.605 - Does anyone have any objections to moving to the vote to advance this? And then we can try and figure 01:13:59.605 --> 01:14:04.094 - out exactly what things will look like between now and the next meeting. OK. 01:14:04.386 --> 01:14:13.283 - Perfect. Since this is resolution related, I will do a roll call vote for this. This is to advance to 01:14:13.283 --> 01:14:22.354 - a second reading. Tara? Yes. Yes, Justin, yes. Rebecca? Yes. Yes. Christopher? Yes. Was that? Yes. Yes. 01:14:22.354 --> 01:14:31.774 - OK. Zach? Yes. Yes. Council member Lowes, absent. We didn't get anyone else in. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? Yes. 01:14:31.906 --> 01:14:38.701 - Yes, Diana. Yes. Yes, and Ross. Yes. Yes. OK, perfect. Great. Yeah, I'll be in touch with instructions 01:14:38.701 --> 01:14:45.431 - over email. That's the best way to do that. It'll be a similar thing. Everyone sends stuff to me, and 01:14:45.431 --> 01:14:52.226 - I'll compile it and make sure nobody has a chance to discuss all that until we're at a public meeting. 01:14:52.226 --> 01:14:58.823 - I also will say, I mean, presumably, if we are having an entire special meeting in conjunction with 01:14:58.823 --> 01:15:01.726 - the Environmental Commission for only this, 01:15:01.922 --> 01:15:08.005 - we'll have the time to have some discussion, right? I mean, if we're gonna have at least an hour, an 01:15:08.005 --> 01:15:14.088 - hour and a half, like a typical meeting would be, yeah. If we just go, vote yes, and then leave. And 01:15:14.088 --> 01:15:20.472 - then leave, yeah. We've been there for, even with two commissions and everything, yeah. Yeah. 15 minutes, 01:15:20.472 --> 01:15:26.494 - yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think it'll be fine. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you, Zach. Yeah. 01:15:26.494 --> 01:15:29.566 - Okay, we've got no resolutions for second reading. 01:15:29.698 --> 01:15:36.393 - So this is the staff liaison report. Oh, I didn't know it was on the agenda. Thank you. I wanted to 01:15:36.393 --> 01:15:43.355 - let everybody know that we have published our 2024 greenhouse gas inventory report. It's on our website 01:15:43.355 --> 01:15:50.251 - now. The press release hopefully will go out on Thursday. And I wanted to give a shout out to Zach for 01:15:50.251 --> 01:15:57.012 - your help with the Google data that you mentioned in the report. Cool. And you were acknowledged for 01:15:57.012 --> 01:15:58.686 - your work on that. Cool. 01:15:59.202 --> 01:16:08.570 - So that will be available. We'll be launching a new solar grants for income qualified homeowners, hopefully 01:16:08.570 --> 01:16:17.592 - next month. We issued an RFP. We're waiting to get our proposals back. So that will be providing a five 01:16:17.592 --> 01:16:27.134 - kilowatt system to income qualified homeowners. That means residents who earn less than 80% AMI will qualify. 01:16:28.514 --> 01:16:45.051 - That's awesome. That's cool. As long as their roof is in good shape, it's going to be a turnkey program. 01:16:45.051 --> 01:16:52.926 - That's awesome. What's the limit? What's the AMI? 01:16:53.346 --> 01:17:11.076 - If you Google housing and development 80% AMI chart, you'll find it. Are you guys using it with your 01:17:11.076 --> 01:17:19.326 - head? Yes. Cool. Something to keep an eye out. 01:17:19.458 --> 01:17:26.807 - on legislatively is lots of states have passed, like, balcony solar provisions. And Indiana, you know, 01:17:26.807 --> 01:17:34.012 - there was a bill to consider that this year. They didn't go anywhere. But they've been passing state 01:17:34.012 --> 01:17:41.432 - houses generally, like, unanimously. But in the future, there could be a program to have, like, smaller 01:17:41.432 --> 01:17:48.638 - systems and have a lot more of them. But I'm not allowed now. But, like, future programs, hopefully. 01:17:49.058 --> 01:17:56.308 - Yeah. Yeah. Have there been sustainable neighborhood grant applications since that was posted? We haven't 01:17:56.308 --> 01:18:03.216 - received any. A press release is going out hopefully tomorrow, I believe. Yeah, yeah. Just to get it 01:18:03.216 --> 01:18:10.329 - back in the news. Try to get the word out. Yeah, so if anybody here wants to help promote that program, 01:18:10.329 --> 01:18:17.237 - we would appreciate it. Grandview Hills can share our blueprint for what we've been in neighborhoods 01:18:17.237 --> 01:18:18.878 - that are interested in. 01:18:19.170 --> 01:18:27.238 - So for those who don't know, we provide $1,000 to neighborhoods. So at least four neighbors, if they 01:18:27.238 --> 01:18:35.386 - get together, they want some sort of sustainability project, such as composting bins, a native flower 01:18:35.386 --> 01:18:43.294 - bed, veggie beds. If it's sustainability-related, we will most likely approve it. So $1,000. Cool. 01:18:43.842 --> 01:18:51.386 - My wild bergamot is seven feet tall. Oh my gosh. Approximately. I'm almost six feet, and it is well 01:18:51.386 --> 01:18:59.382 - above my head. That's insane. Six and seven feet. I kind of regret planting somehow. Like, wait a second. 01:18:59.382 --> 01:19:07.001 - I didn't know it could get that tall. My plant's been a septic leach field. This makes sense. Seemed 01:19:07.001 --> 01:19:09.566 - to be that, a septic leach field. 01:19:11.394 --> 01:19:20.461 - Awesome. Okay. Well, that brings us to member announcements. Anyone have any announcements they want 01:19:20.461 --> 01:19:29.977 - to make? Okay. Cool. No new business. So, hey, we're early. Is there a motion to adjourn? Motion. Second. 01:19:29.977 --> 01:19:39.582 - All right. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions? All right. We're adjourned at 720 PM.