WEBVTT 00:00:01.410 --> 00:00:08.416 - Okay, I think we'll go ahead and get started. So I'll call to order this meeting of the Bloomington 00:00:08.416 --> 00:00:15.562 - Commission on Sustainability and Resilience at 6 p.m. And we'll go through the roll call. Tara? Here. 00:00:15.562 --> 00:00:22.777 - Here. Justin, I'm here. Rebecca? I have regrets from Rebecca, so she won't be able to make it tonight. 00:00:22.777 --> 00:00:28.382 - Chris? Here. Here. Zach? Here. Here. Council Member Rollo? Here. Here. Therese? 00:00:31.426 --> 00:00:40.265 - Oh, perfect. She's here. You're just in time. Alex? Maria? Here. Diana? Here. And Ross? Here. Okay, 00:00:40.265 --> 00:00:49.281 - we have a quorum. So we'll move on to the approval of the agenda. I've got a couple of minutes I want 00:00:49.281 --> 00:00:58.651 - to suggest, but maybe I'll open it up to everyone else first and ask if there's any changes to the agenda 00:00:58.651 --> 00:01:01.214 - anyone wants to put forward. 00:01:03.042 --> 00:01:09.352 - I guess I could add, I just wanted to make a brief announcement about Bloomington Transit at the end 00:01:09.352 --> 00:01:15.787 - of the commissioner reports if that's, we can add that to it. Let me add that to my suggestion, we can 00:01:15.787 --> 00:01:22.160 - do it all in one go. Okay, so a couple changes I'd like to suggest and we'll just vote on all of them 00:01:22.160 --> 00:01:28.158 - as one package. So what Zach just said was adding a brief report from him on the transportation 00:01:28.962 --> 00:01:37.600 - after Councilmember Rallo's report. This is going to get a little bit confusing, so bear with me. The 00:01:37.600 --> 00:01:46.068 - next one would be moving Councilmember Rallo's report, that's item 5B, to after the public comment. 00:01:46.068 --> 00:01:54.790 - There's a council meeting tonight, so he won't be able to stay the whole time, so he'd like to be able 00:01:54.790 --> 00:01:55.806 - to do that. 00:01:57.218 --> 00:02:03.766 - The third thing I would like to do is move, well actually I wanted to ask Sean and Joe Lee if you guys, 00:02:03.766 --> 00:02:10.063 - if you had a report to give tonight, because I'd like to move that forward like into the commission 00:02:10.063 --> 00:02:16.360 - reports as well, just to make sure we have time to get through it before we get into the resolution 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:22.782 - stuff. Okay, so then after Zach's report would be the staff liaison report. And then the final thing, 00:02:23.298 --> 00:02:33.622 - is moving the guest speaker presentation that we have from Hoosier EVA to I guess this would be after 00:02:33.622 --> 00:02:43.743 - Councilmember Rallo's report and before the rest of the commissioner reports. Does that make sense? 00:02:43.743 --> 00:02:53.054 - So yeah. So Councilmember Rallo is 5A. Hoosier EVA would be 5B. Chair's report would be 5C. 00:02:54.274 --> 00:03:03.078 - The staff report would be 5D, and Commissioner Amhermans would be 5E. Is that correct order that we're 00:03:03.078 --> 00:03:12.224 - thinking? OK. Yeah. And we'll try to, if it passes, then we'll try to keep that straight as we go through. 00:03:12.224 --> 00:03:21.114 - I'm going to write it down. Yeah, that's good. Thank you. OK, so those are my proposed amendments. Just 00:03:21.114 --> 00:03:23.678 - nothing crazy, pretty simple. 00:03:24.930 --> 00:03:33.426 - Yeah. Any other changes people want to suggest before we vote on those changes? Okay. Um, and, oh, it 00:03:33.426 --> 00:03:42.005 - looks like we have Alex online. Um, so welcome Alex. Um, okay. So we'll go through and do a, um, yeah. 00:03:42.005 --> 00:03:49.918 - Um, at least for the vote. Yeah. Um, okay. So we'll do a roll call vote to amend the agenda as 00:03:50.466 --> 00:04:04.872 - just stated. Tara. We need a second. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. Tara. Yes. Yes. 00:04:04.872 --> 00:04:20.286 - Justin. Yes. Rebecca's absent. Chris. Yes. Yes. Zach. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Alex. Yes. Maria. 00:04:20.482 --> 00:04:28.153 - Yes. Yes, Diana. Yes. Yes, and Ross. Yes. Yes. OK, great. That is approved as amended. So that brings 00:04:28.153 --> 00:04:35.673 - us to the approval of the minutes for October 13, 2026, our last regular meeting. Is there a motion 00:04:35.673 --> 00:04:43.569 - to approve the minutes? So moved. OK, is there a second? Second. OK, are there any amendments or changes 00:04:43.569 --> 00:04:49.886 - anyone wanted to put forward to those minutes? Actually, can I propose an amendment 00:04:50.210 --> 00:04:57.411 - At the very top, the guest presenter, Alberto Ortega, O'Neill School of Public Policy. Can we amend 00:04:57.411 --> 00:05:04.612 - that? O'Neill should be spelled correctly, and then it should be School of Public and Environmental 00:05:04.612 --> 00:05:12.317 - Affairs. While we're doing that, can we change the approval of the agenda? It has me moving and seconding. 00:05:12.317 --> 00:05:15.774 - I didn't do both. I don't know who seconded it. 00:05:15.874 --> 00:05:33.744 - I have it in the original notes who did it correctly. So if we can, yeah. OK, any other corrections? 00:05:33.744 --> 00:05:45.598 - OK, so we will vote to approve the minutes with those corrections. 00:05:45.826 --> 00:05:57.212 - Tara. Yes. Yes. Sorry, go ahead. Justin, yes. Chris. Yes. Yes. Zach. Yes. Yes. Councilmember Borrella. 00:05:57.212 --> 00:06:08.487 - Yes. Yes. Therese. Yes. Yes. Alex. Yes. Yes. Maria. Yes. Yes. Diana. Abstain. Abstain. And Ross. Yes. 00:06:08.487 --> 00:06:14.014 - Yes. Okay, those minutes are approved as amended. 00:06:14.114 --> 00:06:21.855 - which brings us to public comment. So I don't see anybody online at the moment, so we'll start in the 00:06:21.855 --> 00:06:30.126 - room. Is there anyone in the room not presenting tonight otherwise who would like to address the commission? 00:06:30.126 --> 00:06:38.398 - All right. Seeing none, we'll move on to our next item, which I believe is Councilmember Barallo. Wonderful. 00:06:38.754 --> 00:06:48.926 - Thanks, Justin. So tonight we have a deliberation session because tomorrow's a holiday. So we're meeting 00:06:48.926 --> 00:06:58.710 - this evening, so I got this conflict. But this is a deliberation session where we'll review findings 00:06:58.710 --> 00:07:06.750 - from September 9th and October 21st deliberation sessions which run public safety. 00:07:07.426 --> 00:07:15.653 - which were very productive, had a really great discussion and quite great ideas. And then there's a 00:07:15.653 --> 00:07:24.704 - report I can circulate so you can see that for you. Then we will have a discussion on the Housing Development 00:07:24.704 --> 00:07:33.260 - Fund, which is the city support of affordable housing in the community and what our deliberation should 00:07:33.260 --> 00:07:36.798 - be going forward when utilizing that fund. 00:07:37.058 --> 00:07:44.365 - That's on tonight's agenda. I wanted to just refer to last week's ordinance that I sponsored, which 00:07:44.365 --> 00:07:52.183 - is Ordinance 2026-29, which prohibits artificial superintelligence from Bloomington, from the jurisdiction 00:07:52.183 --> 00:07:59.635 - of Bloomington. As far as I know, this is the first law against artificial superintelligence. So it's 00:07:59.635 --> 00:08:06.942 - getting a lot of attention. This is a technology that's not available yet, but it's on the horizon. 00:08:07.298 --> 00:08:14.920 - It's what companies that Frontier Labs are aiming to do. It's known to be extremely hazardous. The reason 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:22.471 - is multi-fold, but one reason is in order to get there, they're endowing these models with what's called 00:08:22.471 --> 00:08:29.806 - recursive self-improvement, which is where the models themselves design the models. Right now there's 00:08:29.806 --> 00:08:35.774 - human oversight, but they're giving ever more latitude for the AI to utilize that. 00:08:36.834 --> 00:08:43.369 - So this has been warned about for years, that this could result in an iterative loop of improvement 00:08:43.369 --> 00:08:50.100 - to super intelligence, which would be impossible for us to control, potentially. People say, why don't 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:56.961 - you unplug it? It resides on the internet. So where do you unplug it? It could be in any server anywhere 00:08:56.961 --> 00:09:03.561 - in the world. It's been known to escape. Already, the current versions form swarms, break into other 00:09:03.561 --> 00:09:06.110 - companies, break into its own company. 00:09:06.274 --> 00:09:14.269 - You know, it's being utilized to steal Bitcoin and other things. So it is not aligned with human well-being 00:09:14.269 --> 00:09:22.117 - right now, and yet they're going forward with this dangerous technology. Whistleblowers have come forward 00:09:22.117 --> 00:09:29.890 - and said this could result in catastrophe, essentially extinction-level catastrophe. It would disempower 00:09:29.890 --> 00:09:35.294 - humanity, and it would, we would be at the mercy of machine intelligence 00:09:36.130 --> 00:09:42.182 - So no longer would machine intelligence be subordinate to humans. This is a crazy concept. I realize 00:09:42.182 --> 00:09:48.233 - that people can't really fully wrap their heads around it, but this is what experts are saying right 00:09:48.233 --> 00:09:54.764 - now, including Nobel laureates. During my presentation, I refer to Jeffrey Hinton. I refer to whistleblowers 00:09:54.764 --> 00:10:00.816 - who had left companies, like Jacob Cox, who left before he was fully vested. He left before he would 00:10:00.816 --> 00:10:04.830 - get a couple million bucks because he was so concerned about this. 00:10:05.410 --> 00:10:11.741 - And there are AI safety researchers who have studied this for years, like Roman Yompolsky from the University 00:10:11.741 --> 00:10:17.727 - of Louisville. He's published over 100 papers on AI safety. And he's been warning about this for years. 00:10:17.727 --> 00:10:23.597 - So it's an imminent threat, just like we needed another. We have global warming. We have nuclear war. 00:10:23.597 --> 00:10:29.583 - Now we have this. But it's something that we can prevent from happening. And it's easier. I mean, there 00:10:29.583 --> 00:10:35.166 - are two ways to react to an exponential, which is what this is on. One is too early or too late. 00:10:35.906 --> 00:10:43.346 - And so we need to act now. So I'm not gonna wait. That was my motivation. This was a moral commitment 00:10:43.346 --> 00:10:50.932 - for me. I think we owe it to children today to protect their future, to ensure that they have a livable 00:10:50.932 --> 00:10:58.372 - world. And so I went forward and I'm not gonna back down on this. So let me say what it doesn't apply 00:10:58.372 --> 00:11:04.062 - to. And I said this very clearly in the meeting. That is, it doesn't apply to 00:11:04.322 --> 00:11:11.184 - the AI that we're using currently. It doesn't apply to narrow tools, which can be very beneficial. 00:11:11.184 --> 00:11:18.115 - We want to, you know, alpha fold, great technology. I used to work in protein folding when I worked 00:11:18.115 --> 00:11:25.184 - in a biochemistry lab. And it took months and months and months to understand how a protein folds and 00:11:25.184 --> 00:11:32.670 - how it interacts in the cell. This has made huge advances toward medicine, alpha fold, won the Nobel Prize. 00:11:32.834 --> 00:11:40.426 - There are other applications that could be very useful. Those are narrow tools focused on specific things 00:11:40.426 --> 00:11:47.731 - to do. We don't need an autonomous agent that has endowed super intelligence that can run amok on the 00:11:47.731 --> 00:11:54.893 - internet. So it's very risky. So it's not tool AI. And so I think that's been misunderstood by some 00:11:54.893 --> 00:12:02.270 - people who are very critical of this right now. I plan on a companion resolution, which is the support 00:12:02.434 --> 00:12:09.951 - the tech industry in Bloomington, because there's good things happening here. And we need to focus on 00:12:09.951 --> 00:12:17.541 - those and promote those. So I want to make clear that I'm for the tech park and what's going on there. 00:12:17.541 --> 00:12:24.984 - I've always been supportive of it. And there are good things from tech. So is there anything else to 00:12:24.984 --> 00:12:31.838 - say? It passed unanimously. So I'm very pleased by that. So anyway, are there any questions? 00:12:41.378 --> 00:12:50.605 - that you'd cost me, did you? No, Roman Yompolsky. Yeah. He apparently was the guy who coined the term 00:12:50.605 --> 00:12:59.651 - AI safety. So he's been working on it for quite a while. Yeah. And unfortunately, he gives a X risk 00:12:59.651 --> 00:13:08.606 - it's called of a certainty almost, like 99.99%. Maybe a few more nines. Unfortunately. But anyway. 00:13:10.082 --> 00:13:15.888 - Okay, I can talk all night about it, but I won't. Any other questions for Council Member Rubel? Great, 00:13:15.888 --> 00:13:21.694 - well thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay, so let's see, I'll try guessing with my memory 00:13:21.694 --> 00:13:27.387 - again at the next item on our agenda. Is it the Hoosier EVA introduction? I think so, perfect. Okay, 00:13:27.387 --> 00:13:33.249 - so I'll invite Paul to come up. We've got a spot here up at the very front. And I'll pull up the slides 00:13:33.249 --> 00:13:38.942 - that you sent me, and Sean and Julie, I'll send those to you as well so you can get posted on board. 00:13:39.362 --> 00:13:46.119 - While I'm doing that, maybe you could just introduce yourself to the Commission. Yeah, for sure. My 00:13:46.119 --> 00:13:53.349 - name is Bob Ordon-Kercher. I am heading what is known as the Hoosier EVA, or Electric Vehicle Association. 00:13:53.349 --> 00:14:00.242 - Hoosier EVA has been around since 2010 here in Indiana. The national organization, which we are fully 00:14:00.242 --> 00:14:07.134 - under, we're a full 501C3 under the national organization, has actually been in existence since 1967. 00:14:07.586 --> 00:14:14.969 - So this has been going on a long time, and we are fully under that 501C3 for our operations. The Hoosier 00:14:14.969 --> 00:14:22.141 - EVA is the only chapter in Indiana, so essentially we're responsible for the whole state. It had been 00:14:22.141 --> 00:14:29.172 - dormant in the past couple of years, and this all changed with my wife and I moving here. I was the 00:14:29.172 --> 00:14:37.118 - former president of the Nevada EVA in Las Vegas before my wife and I took advantage of the remote worker program 00:14:37.442 --> 00:14:43.855 - at Amplify in the mill and moved here back in March. And when I made that move, the national organization 00:14:43.855 --> 00:14:50.026 - kind of poked me and asked us like, hey, we could maybe use some help with Indiana. Would you like to 00:14:50.026 --> 00:14:56.075 - consider it? So after a little bit of talking to people like Justin and people in town with Project 00:14:56.075 --> 00:15:02.186 - 46 and others, in August, I decided to step in. And so I've been leading it since August. Obviously, 00:15:02.186 --> 00:15:05.150 - we're very early on, so we've had a chance to do 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:11.934 - just a little bit, just to get going, literally in the last couple of months. We had our first public 00:15:11.934 --> 00:15:19.011 - event since forming at the farmers market on October 10. That was just our way of, we set up an information 00:15:19.011 --> 00:15:25.761 - booth and we stole a few parking spots from over at Ragstock and parked some electric vehicles so that 00:15:25.761 --> 00:15:27.006 - we could see that. 00:15:27.202 --> 00:15:33.890 - It's part of what the EVA tries to do every year. We try to do at least a minimum of two public events. 00:15:33.890 --> 00:15:40.320 - So in September and October as part of, we call it Drive Electric Month, and then in April again as 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:46.622 - a part of Earth Month, we will do another similar event. But we try to do other events as we can. 00:15:46.722 --> 00:15:53.004 - In Nevada, we were very closely tied with Clark County's Department of Environment and Sustainability, 00:15:53.004 --> 00:15:59.224 - and we did a lot of public events there. So we did EV 101 sessions at the public library. We did some 00:15:59.224 --> 00:16:05.384 - events at retirement homes and that kind of a thing. So to be a public voice, I like to say EVA also 00:16:05.384 --> 00:16:11.422 - stands for our mission, which is education, visibility, and advocacy. So that's what we try to do. 00:16:11.746 --> 00:16:17.701 - been doing that for quite a while. What we've got coming up, our next meeting, if anyone's interested, 00:16:17.701 --> 00:16:23.540 - will be actually this Saturday. We are hosting it at the mill, and we also do it via Zoom, just like 00:16:23.540 --> 00:16:29.553 - you do the events here. So we'll be doing that this Saturday morning. And we are already in preparation 00:16:29.553 --> 00:16:35.797 - for, of course, the events in April, part of the reason to meet with the board here and other organizations 00:16:35.797 --> 00:16:41.694 - so that we can be part of the Earth Day events in April. So as far as things that we've got upcoming, 00:16:41.986 --> 00:16:47.073 - We are pulling our board together. We have a total member of five on the board right now. I'm the only 00:16:47.073 --> 00:16:52.062 - one in Bloomington, but we have four members that are up in the Indianapolis area. Of course, that's 00:16:52.290 --> 00:16:56.842 - where the Hoosier EVA had been in existence before I got involved. And they are still a part of the 00:16:56.842 --> 00:17:01.394 - board. So we did do an event up in Irvington, actually. I forget the councilman up there who's very 00:17:01.394 --> 00:17:05.992 - big into electric vehicles, but we had a small event up there as well in September. But we're hoping 00:17:05.992 --> 00:17:10.544 - to do more of those things. We are still looking for a secretary. So if you know anybody who has an 00:17:10.544 --> 00:17:14.686 - interest in electric vehicles and would like to contribute, we are still looking for that. 00:17:14.754 --> 00:17:21.595 - We are, with our upcoming meeting, we're hoping to set some of our priorities for 2027, which of course 00:17:21.595 --> 00:17:28.305 - will include the event in April and then other things like partnering with other places and trying to 00:17:28.305 --> 00:17:34.949 - do some more public education events. So that is part of our plan. We have also just recently put in 00:17:34.949 --> 00:17:41.593 - for the, I always get the acronym wrong, CFBMC's community foundation grants for a tier two grant to 00:17:41.593 --> 00:17:44.158 - do an education campaign. Again, after 00:17:44.418 --> 00:17:50.057 - doing a lot of the research in town, I think the best place we can contribute is to be an education 00:17:50.057 --> 00:17:55.865 - and information source. I like to say we try to be like the Consumer Reports of electric vehicles. And 00:17:55.865 --> 00:18:01.561 - we do include things like bicycles and scooters and so forth. Most of our concentration, most of the 00:18:01.561 --> 00:18:04.606 - interest we get tends to be around personal vehicles. 00:18:04.770 --> 00:18:10.526 - you know, cars and trucks and so forth. But we want to be able to speak on all those and be visible 00:18:10.526 --> 00:18:16.339 - on all of those. So we have put in for a Tier 2 campaign to hopefully do a full media campaign about 00:18:16.339 --> 00:18:22.267 - benefits of electric vehicles, you know, countering a lot of the misinformation that's out there about 00:18:22.267 --> 00:18:27.102 - them and so forth. Because we do see, we have seen real advantages to the community 00:18:27.330 --> 00:18:32.515 - with high adoption electric vehicles. Now Bloomington is already fairly high adoption that we've seen 00:18:32.515 --> 00:18:37.802 - just driving around and seeing it. But the more we see it increase, we've also seen in previous studies 00:18:37.802 --> 00:18:42.885 - in Nevada where lower income areas actually are the ones that are most adversely affected by things 00:18:42.885 --> 00:18:43.902 - like air pollution. 00:18:44.450 --> 00:18:50.453 - And I'm told the state of Indiana doesn't rank terribly highly on air quality, at least the last one 00:18:50.453 --> 00:18:56.576 - I read. So we think there's a lot of different places that we can touch, whether it's lower income and 00:18:56.576 --> 00:19:02.638 - air quality and so forth. So that is part of our goal is to work with organizations like the city and 00:19:02.638 --> 00:19:08.344 - the county to continue to increase that. So that's really all I have. It's mostly to say hello. 00:19:08.344 --> 00:19:14.110 - We are here, and we're looking to be a tool. We're looking to be a help in any area that we can. 00:19:16.130 --> 00:19:21.613 - Well, thank you. Let me open it up to anyone who has questions, comments. Paul? I just want to know 00:19:21.613 --> 00:19:27.206 - if you are aware of the map that we have on our City of Bloomington website. It has all the locations 00:19:27.206 --> 00:19:32.799 - of all the EV charging stations across the city. I just wanted you to. I am aware. I am aware of some 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:38.282 - of the other apps that have it. And that's partly what initially got me started because, of course, 00:19:38.282 --> 00:19:44.040 - downtown and the northern area is very well covered for electric vehicles. I live more towards the south 00:19:44.040 --> 00:19:45.246 - area and not as much. 00:19:45.698 --> 00:19:51.127 - So that got this idea going for Starz to be part of the campaign. But again, we realize y'all have so 00:19:51.127 --> 00:19:56.610 - many things well in hand when it comes to charging infrastructure. From what I understand, Bloomington 00:19:56.610 --> 00:20:01.454 - is one of the only cities also that has an ordinance that new multi-unit dwellings have to 00:20:01.454 --> 00:20:04.062 - have infrastructure for electric charging in it. 00:20:04.546 --> 00:20:10.493 - What a fantastic thing. So we hope to see more of those installed, and maybe we can help out in some 00:20:10.493 --> 00:20:16.734 - way with that, too. So we're installing our first DC fast charger at the trade system. Oh, fantastic. OK. 00:20:17.122 --> 00:20:22.386 - Excellent. I'm excited about all of that, excited about Bloomington. I can honestly say, my wife and 00:20:22.386 --> 00:20:27.703 - I have no negative things to say about Bloomington whatsoever. We absolutely love being here. We love 00:20:27.703 --> 00:20:32.967 - that it's not 120 degrees. And we're looking forward to getting back to snow. My wife was from Ohio. 00:20:32.967 --> 00:20:38.231 - I was from northern Minnesota. We know the weather, and we're looking forward to getting back to it. 00:20:38.231 --> 00:20:41.150 - It looks like Alex has his hand raised. Go ahead, Alex. 00:20:53.122 --> 00:21:04.383 - Um, I, as a, oh, I'm, it's like super Zoom to not be. Yeah, it does its own thing. You're too great, 00:21:04.383 --> 00:21:15.532 - Alex. Zoom is, Zoom is free, yeah. So, um, I have a question. So, uh, yeah, as an EV driver, I find 00:21:15.532 --> 00:21:22.110 - that there's incredible power in people experiencing that. 00:21:30.722 --> 00:21:32.382 - feel the movement of. 00:22:11.234 --> 00:22:16.707 - Yeah, absolutely. I mean, really a large part of when we do our public events, you'll see whenever we 00:22:16.707 --> 00:22:22.233 - do our next one, we have a very large tent that says all the way around, talk to an EV driver. And our 00:22:22.233 --> 00:22:27.598 - whole point is to have people there who actually drive it. And they can talk about the good and the 00:22:27.598 --> 00:22:33.017 - bad sometimes about what that experience is like. But yes, the actual physically driving the vehicle 00:22:33.017 --> 00:22:38.436 - we have seen time and time and time again is almost the first immediate thing that seals the deal on 00:22:38.436 --> 00:22:40.958 - it. The biggest issue that we have with it, of 00:22:41.058 --> 00:22:47.345 - is insurance. So if somebody test drives your car, deals with that incredible torque, and puts it into 00:22:47.345 --> 00:22:53.571 - a light pole, it becomes problematic. So this is a part where maybe I'm hoping the city will help. We 00:22:53.571 --> 00:22:59.798 - saw this benefit in Clark County, where when we would have events, participation from dealerships was 00:22:59.798 --> 00:23:05.963 - not so great. But when the county or when the government agencies brought in and said, we want to do 00:23:05.963 --> 00:23:10.846 - this event, suddenly the dealership showed up. And of course, dealerships have. 00:23:11.394 --> 00:23:17.128 - ride and drive insurance we can do things where it's up to the drivers where they can let somebody ride 00:23:17.128 --> 00:23:22.861 - along with them and see the torque and see the speed but to literally let them drive the vehicle that's 00:23:22.861 --> 00:23:28.429 - where auto dealerships have the liability insurance to do that so that's the only reason we we don't 00:23:28.429 --> 00:23:30.910 - or we do when we have the opportunity when a 00:23:31.010 --> 00:23:36.128 - Tesla or Rivian or whatever officially brings vehicles. Here, I guess, it'd be Community Ford, 00:23:36.128 --> 00:23:41.677 - Royal South, Royal East, and some of the ones that have the EVs. If we can get them out to bring their 00:23:41.677 --> 00:23:47.064 - vehicles, they can do the drives. We can do ride-alongs, at least. But again, it's always up to the 00:23:47.064 --> 00:23:52.451 - individual driver's comfort with the potential insurance and so forth. So yes, but I totally agree, 00:23:52.451 --> 00:23:58.162 - Alex. We would love to always have ride and drives every time. Sometimes it's just seeing them is enough, 00:23:58.162 --> 00:24:00.478 - but getting in them and experiencing them, 00:24:01.314 --> 00:24:11.065 - firmly believe makes a big difference. Great to meet you. Our sustainability director is very supportive 00:24:11.065 --> 00:24:21.374 - of EVs as we know, but are there other things the city can be doing to expedite ownership and interest in EVs? 00:24:22.082 --> 00:24:27.598 - Well, I think we're in sort of a unique opportunity right now because we did have, of course, the federal 00:24:27.598 --> 00:24:32.801 - incentives that went away about a year or two ago. What we're running into is we found that a large 00:24:32.801 --> 00:24:38.265 - number of EV drivers somewhere in the 70 percentage range usually lease their vehicles. So we're hitting 00:24:38.265 --> 00:24:43.625 - a time period where we're going to have all those vehicles that were bought off the federal incentives 00:24:43.625 --> 00:24:48.932 - are going to be coming off lease. And if you'd ever seen any of my presentations back in VATA, one of 00:24:48.932 --> 00:24:51.742 - my big soap boxes is actually used electric vehicles. 00:24:52.482 --> 00:24:58.735 - Previous to COVID, they were a dramatic price drop over just a couple, three years from the lease. My 00:24:58.735 --> 00:25:05.111 - first one was $26,000 new, and I bought it for 10. Two years old and 20,000 miles on it, something like 00:25:05.111 --> 00:25:11.303 - that. So in fact, I just purchased a used EV this time, two years old, and it was literally half the 00:25:11.303 --> 00:25:17.985 - price of new. So we're big on that. We think that increases affordability. So that increases the opportunity 00:25:17.985 --> 00:25:19.518 - for lower income, again, 00:25:20.034 --> 00:25:25.578 - trying to help with that. The other part of it, of course, is the availability of charging. What we 00:25:25.578 --> 00:25:31.233 - found is the number one thing that makes EV adoption simpler is the ability to either charge at home, 00:25:31.233 --> 00:25:36.943 - number one, or second place at work. And so that ability to charge, and a lot of people don't realize, 00:25:36.943 --> 00:25:42.542 - you can charge a vehicle on normal 110 household outlet. But to have that availability is one thing. 00:25:42.542 --> 00:25:48.086 - And then if you drive a lot, of course, you'd want something more like a level two charge, which is 00:25:48.086 --> 00:25:49.694 - more like a 240 volt outlet. 00:25:49.922 --> 00:25:56.278 - But making that available, making it easier, having things like electric service firms here in town 00:25:56.278 --> 00:26:02.698 - to know how to install specifically level 2 charging, although essentially the outlet is the same as 00:26:02.698 --> 00:26:09.054 - an electric dryer outlet. That's what we're talking about, a 240 volt outlet between 40 and 80 amps 00:26:09.054 --> 00:26:15.728 - kind of an idea. Some homes, we realize, can't support that. Some older homes only have 100 amp service. 00:26:15.728 --> 00:26:18.398 - But there are even technologies now where 00:26:18.978 --> 00:26:23.962 - load balancers and things like that sorry I'm not an electrician but there are capabilities where even 00:26:23.962 --> 00:26:28.801 - in a lower amperage home that they can still do level two charging if they really need it but those 00:26:28.801 --> 00:26:33.834 - kinds of things and then from there it's like incentives from the utilities like I just saw Duke Energy 00:26:33.834 --> 00:26:38.722 - has a time of use program I don't know if it's specific to electric vehicles or if it's other things 00:26:38.722 --> 00:26:43.609 - I think it might be for everyone I'm trying to remember now but we had some of those programs out in 00:26:43.609 --> 00:26:46.174 - Nevada that were helpful as well but I think the the 00:26:46.274 --> 00:26:51.913 - lowered price of used electric vehicles, I think the ability for people to charge them at home at work, 00:26:51.913 --> 00:26:57.390 - I think those are really the two biggest contributing factors to increase that adoption, at least in 00:26:57.390 --> 00:27:02.975 - personal vehicles. The next trend that's coming in now, of course, is the ability to run your home off 00:27:02.975 --> 00:27:08.560 - the vehicle should there be an outage. We're very young in that. There's only a handful of models that 00:27:08.560 --> 00:27:14.200 - do that now, but that is moving very quickly. So again, same thing, especially in the rural areas. From 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:15.230 - what I understand, 00:27:15.682 --> 00:27:21.075 - Electricity from Duke Energy in town is very good. Once we get to the rural cooperatives, it kind of 00:27:21.075 --> 00:27:26.467 - depends. So for people who are more outside the city limits, that ability, again, is going to become 00:27:26.467 --> 00:27:31.806 - a significant factor even just in the next, I would say, two to five years. Yeah. Well, that's very 00:27:31.806 --> 00:27:37.306 - resilient, which we're about to. So it's sustainability. Paul, I wanted to make sure that you're aware 00:27:37.306 --> 00:27:41.310 - of a city program. It's called Bloomington Green Home Improvement Program. 00:27:41.474 --> 00:27:47.218 - We provide rebates to homeowners who are installing a level two charger in their home. We provide a 00:27:47.218 --> 00:27:53.019 - rebate for the charger itself, and then a rebate if they need an electric panel upgrade. OK. I think 00:27:53.019 --> 00:27:58.878 - I knew some about that. I stopped looking because I'm technically outside the city limits. For myself 00:27:58.878 --> 00:28:04.851 - personally, but it's information we should have as a group that we promote. So I would love to get that 00:28:04.851 --> 00:28:10.078 - information so I speak correctly. Zach, I think you had a question, then we'll go over it. 00:28:10.498 --> 00:28:16.488 - Paul, is board membership in the secretary position open to anyone anywhere in the state? I'm sorry. 00:28:16.488 --> 00:28:22.775 - That was a child, I think. Oh, OK. Yeah, I mean, it's essentially, ultimately, we'd like to be statewide. 00:28:22.775 --> 00:28:28.943 - So we would love to have a Fort Wayne, a Lafayette, an Invincible location. Just so happens now we only 00:28:28.943 --> 00:28:35.290 - have the one. Like I said, four out of five of our board members are in Indianapolis right now. So someone 00:28:35.290 --> 00:28:37.662 - could participate remotely? Absolutely. 00:28:37.858 --> 00:28:44.012 - Yeah, we're definitely, I'm trying to get the tech stack sort of set up for the club so things can be 00:28:44.012 --> 00:28:50.165 - done remotely. And we're getting there. We're pretty good so far. I have one quick comment. Paul, I'm 00:28:50.165 --> 00:28:56.862 - going to pass your information along to our, I'm with the county, Ross Grosson. But we are looking at, we just 00:28:57.218 --> 00:29:03.693 - put more solar panels on the north end of this building. We looked at doing an array at the county over 00:29:03.693 --> 00:29:10.043 - the north parking lot, but there were so many utilities under the parking lot it wasn't feasible. But 00:29:10.043 --> 00:29:16.455 - they're looking at adding some solar chargers on the county side as well. So that they'll be connected 00:29:16.455 --> 00:29:22.681 - to our array and will be available when we're producing. Excellent, well it's good. Yeah, I'll send 00:29:22.681 --> 00:29:25.918 - them your information Sophia. Wonderful, thank you. 00:29:28.162 --> 00:29:36.623 - Alex, your hand is still raised. Did you have another question or comment? Yeah, I just wanted to share 00:29:36.623 --> 00:29:45.165 - that I know some of the RENCs have EV charging tariffs as well, so it's not just within the Duke network 00:29:45.165 --> 00:29:50.046 - that there's some utility support for them, but Hoosier and 00:30:01.922 --> 00:30:08.378 - Yeah, my biggest thing, of course, being new to Indiana, literally moving here knowing no one is learning 00:30:08.378 --> 00:30:14.774 - everything. So that's the other thing is to learn from people like you all about what's out here already 00:30:14.774 --> 00:30:20.925 - and just helping it along. All right. Any final questions or comments? OK. Well, thank you, Paul, so 00:30:20.925 --> 00:30:27.382 - much for coming in. And you've been able to do an impressive amount getting us stood up in a short amount 00:30:27.382 --> 00:30:30.366 - of time. So kudos to that. And yeah, definitely. 00:30:30.562 --> 00:30:39.184 - Come back, keep us posted. And if there's anything we can do to support, happy to work with you on that. 00:30:39.184 --> 00:30:47.723 - Excellent. Thank you all. I appreciate the time. Thank you. All right. Switch back to the other screen. 00:30:47.723 --> 00:30:56.098 - And I think it's my report next. Is that right? Yep. All right. Well, this past month was a very busy 00:30:56.098 --> 00:31:00.286 - one for me. So I don't really have much to report. 00:31:00.610 --> 00:31:09.672 - We don't have any changes as far as the organization goes, same number of vacancies as before. And maybe 00:31:09.672 --> 00:31:18.647 - just a reminder to folks whose terms are expiring in January that if you want to stay on the commission 00:31:18.647 --> 00:31:27.450 - to submit the renewed application on board. And yeah, I think that's mostly all I have, short report. 00:31:27.450 --> 00:31:29.694 - But any questions for me? 00:31:33.250 --> 00:31:40.758 - Yeah. We were talking about it before the meeting started. So for the record, do we know what vacancies 00:31:40.758 --> 00:31:47.978 - we currently have on the commission? Can we just review those briefly? Yeah, I can actually pull up 00:31:47.978 --> 00:31:55.341 - on board real quick. Yeah, three mayoral positions. So see M3, M5, and M6. And yeah, that's it at the 00:31:55.341 --> 00:31:58.590 - moment. Yeah, absolutely. Good question. OK. 00:31:59.266 --> 00:32:06.519 - Seeing no further questions, we'll move on to Zach. Yeah, just really brief. So I'm also on the Bloomington 00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:13.436 - Transit Board because I'm nuts. Didn't have enough boards and commissions anyway, which is recent. And 00:32:13.436 --> 00:32:20.420 - I don't plan on making an update every single meeting, but there's something big happening and I wanted 00:32:20.420 --> 00:32:27.135 - to make people aware of it. The new management and the board are considering a reduction in service 00:32:27.135 --> 00:32:29.150 - for five different bus lines. 00:32:29.378 --> 00:32:37.629 - The 2w 2s 11 7 and 16 would be reduced roughly by half Oh, sorry, okay Well, yeah, so anyway, they're 00:32:37.629 --> 00:32:45.717 - they're reducing service by roughly half proposing reducing service were roughly half on those five 00:32:45.717 --> 00:32:53.968 - lines The seven and the two in particular some of the higher ridership lines in the entire system. So 00:32:53.968 --> 00:32:58.174 - it would be a pretty severe cut the reason being is 00:32:59.554 --> 00:33:06.460 - The drivers have been on mandatory overtime essentially since August due to a significant staff shortage, 00:33:06.460 --> 00:33:13.105 - a driver shortage. They have a major driver retention problem. I have thoughts on this proposed cuts. 00:33:13.105 --> 00:33:20.075 - I'm not going to go into them right now, but I would ask people to please turn out and share your thoughts 00:33:20.075 --> 00:33:26.785 - on the proposed cuts. They're having a hearing, a public input session November 17th at 4.30 PM at the 00:33:26.785 --> 00:33:28.414 - Downtown Transit Center. 00:33:29.058 --> 00:33:34.885 - Immediately after that, the board will be voting on whether or not to approve the cuts. I am not convinced 00:33:34.885 --> 00:33:40.494 - that the cuts are going to actually solve the problem. I think we have a driver retention problem. And 00:33:40.494 --> 00:33:46.158 - I think this is my own opinion on this. This is not the opinion of the board or anyone else. My thought 00:33:46.158 --> 00:33:51.658 - is that it's being treated mainly as a recruitment problem. And we don't have a recruitment problem. 00:33:51.658 --> 00:33:57.212 - We have a retention problem. And over the past year or two, they've hired 95 people and only retained 00:33:57.212 --> 00:33:58.846 - 12. That is an 88% loss rate. 00:33:59.234 --> 00:34:04.659 - You don't get to that level of a problem with not advertising for job posting enough. You get it from 00:34:04.659 --> 00:34:09.978 - not retaining drivers. So I think we need to look at pay. Our starting driver pay is below the 10th 00:34:09.978 --> 00:34:15.351 - percentile for transit operators in the state of Indiana, meaning essentially 90 plus percent of the 00:34:15.351 --> 00:34:20.989 - transit operators in the state of Indiana are making more money than our starting drivers. I think that's 00:34:20.989 --> 00:34:26.680 - something that we need to be looking at, and that is the real problem. And I'm not convinced that reducing 00:34:26.680 --> 00:34:28.382 - service is going for six months 00:34:28.514 --> 00:34:34.717 - is going to fix the problem without addressing that as well. So those are my thoughts. I would ask people 00:34:34.717 --> 00:34:40.803 - to please turn out, again, November 17th at 4.30 PM at the Downtown Transit Center. So that's it. Thank 00:34:40.803 --> 00:34:46.830 - you for that report. Are there any questions for Scott? So you said right after the 4.30 public input. 00:34:46.830 --> 00:34:52.682 - Immediately after that, we'll be having our? Is it a regular business meeting? Our regular business 00:34:52.682 --> 00:34:57.598 - meeting, yes, where we'll be voting on the cuts. Is there a way you can share that? 00:34:58.594 --> 00:35:05.024 - or is it publicly posted by the board? I don't think they posted it yet. It'll have to be posted 48 00:35:05.024 --> 00:35:11.454 - hours before. I don't think it's on the website yet, but yes, I can share it with you. Comments via 00:35:11.454 --> 00:35:18.206 - Zoom? I would hope so. Normally you can during board meetings. There is a public comment period. I don't 00:35:18.206 --> 00:35:25.086 - know if this public input session will include one or not. I can't tell you for certain. I think probably. 00:35:30.914 --> 00:35:37.174 - Thank you for that. Yeah, I appreciate that. Okay. And that brings us to the staff liaison of course. 00:35:37.174 --> 00:35:43.434 - Sorry. Thanks. I want to talk about a whole lot of things since you guys have a lot to talk about. So 00:35:43.434 --> 00:35:49.694 - I'll just give a couple of updates. We have hired Kim Lundgren associates to help with refocusing our 00:35:49.694 --> 00:35:55.832 - cap and they will be helping to write a five year cap implementation report. Our cap was five years 00:35:55.832 --> 00:35:57.182 - old in April of 2026. 00:35:57.378 --> 00:36:03.502 - Climate Action Plan. So the Climate Action Plan, yes, thank you. So I've been collecting actions from 00:36:03.502 --> 00:36:09.625 - all of the departments and so far we have about 230 cap actions that we're going to be reporting out. 00:36:09.625 --> 00:36:15.989 - We issued an invitation to bid for the Buskirt-Chinle Theatre Project. That's a project where we received 00:36:15.989 --> 00:36:22.113 - a grant from the Indiana Office of Energy Development to upgrade the HVAC, install solar and battery, 00:36:22.113 --> 00:36:24.094 - a battery energy storage system. 00:36:24.482 --> 00:36:31.310 - We issued the invitation to bid for the solar and battery. Unfortunately, the bids that came in were 00:36:31.310 --> 00:36:38.544 - too high. So we have to remove the battery from the project. So that's unfortunate, but that's the reality 00:36:38.544 --> 00:36:45.372 - of applying for a grant in 2024. And then with tariffs and everything that has increased since then, 00:36:45.372 --> 00:36:52.606 - it's not possible. So we're pivoting and I'm soliciting quotes for installing solar at the animal shelter. 00:36:52.994 --> 00:36:59.413 - installing heat pumps at the Allison Jukebox Community Center. And we're gonna have to do some electrical 00:36:59.413 --> 00:37:05.591 - upgrades there for the heat pumps. And we were hoping to install solar at the Allison Jukebox Center, 00:37:05.591 --> 00:37:11.768 - but I found out today that the roof doesn't look like it's in the best shape. So we're probably gonna 00:37:11.768 --> 00:37:17.884 - have to pivot to a different building for that. For our solar grants and income qualified homeowners 00:37:17.884 --> 00:37:20.670 - program, that was launched on September 28th. 00:37:20.770 --> 00:37:27.388 - already received 40 applications and so far I have approved 10 installations out of the 22 that are 00:37:27.388 --> 00:37:34.072 - available. So I believe right now there's one spot that's available. If there's anyone out there who 00:37:34.072 --> 00:37:40.822 - would like to apply, there's one spot currently available. So there's lots of applications that we're 00:37:40.822 --> 00:37:47.440 - processing still. So, so far we've got 10 approved. For project 46, we are applying for the Climate 00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:49.822 - Smart Communities Initiative Grant. 00:37:50.306 --> 00:37:58.237 - We are applying for funding for a feasibility study to mitigate flooding in the Cresmont BHA neighborhood 00:37:58.237 --> 00:38:05.943 - area. And then the other two member cities are also applying for funding for flood mitigation. So I'll 00:38:05.943 --> 00:38:13.650 - keep you posted on that. And then if anyone is interested, I am providing a climate action plan update 00:38:13.650 --> 00:38:19.486 - to city council next Wednesday evening. So I would love to see you all there. 00:38:19.714 --> 00:38:27.059 - I would also like to add, we've had some sustainable neighborhoods grant applications. We've approved 00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:34.332 - two of them. One is the Fritz and Terrius neighborhood isn't going to install pollinator gardens and 00:38:34.332 --> 00:38:42.181 - trees, much like Tara's neighborhood. Very similar project to native plants and gardens scattered throughout 00:38:42.181 --> 00:38:49.022 - the neighborhood. The Prospect Hill Neighborhood Association will receive a grant for twofold. 00:38:49.122 --> 00:38:55.982 - TerraCycle box is to collect hard to recycle items, and then the other one is to start neighborhood 00:38:55.982 --> 00:39:03.115 - compost collection. And then the Woodlands HOA, they're in process. We're likely going to approve them. 00:39:03.115 --> 00:39:10.249 - I just needed some more documentation about also doing neighborhood compost collection and native plant 00:39:10.249 --> 00:39:17.246 - installations. So those great three new grants that came in towards the end of the application cycle. 00:39:19.650 --> 00:39:25.471 - I have a quick question. So Crestmont is having localized flooding issues, or? Yeah, I can't remember 00:39:25.471 --> 00:39:31.692 - the exact streets, but there's an intersection there. There's a T. And when we have a really heavy downpour, 00:39:31.692 --> 00:39:37.456 - someone sent me a video. And there's just water rushing along the road and into people's properties. 00:39:37.456 --> 00:39:43.334 - OK, I just think of that as such a high area of town. Yeah, right. Yeah, it wasn't the first area that 00:39:43.334 --> 00:39:44.190 - I would think. 00:39:44.994 --> 00:39:52.134 - flooding than I think. Yeah, I don't think there's enough stormwater infrastructure there. OK, 00:39:52.134 --> 00:39:59.950 - very good. Yeah. What was the third, the still pending grant? Pending the Woodlands HOA, Woodlands HOA. 00:39:59.950 --> 00:40:07.540 - Yeah. For what's the project? Compost collection, leaf collection as well, and native plant gardens. 00:40:07.540 --> 00:40:12.350 - Oh, and the other thing is very soon, we are collaborating with 00:40:12.546 --> 00:40:19.771 - with city Bloomington utilities to relaunch the residential stormwater grant program. So CBU is actually 00:40:19.771 --> 00:40:26.927 - like, they're providing the funding, but ESD, we will administer the grant program. And so that's going 00:40:26.927 --> 00:40:33.946 - to be a small scale grants for residents on private property to install rain gardens, bioswales, just 00:40:33.946 --> 00:40:40.414 - different, yeah, green infrastructure solutions to stormwater issues. So that is coming soon. 00:40:40.578 --> 00:40:47.434 - launch the application just about as soon as I can here in November. And that's about $20,000 total. 00:40:47.434 --> 00:40:54.900 - The grants could range anywhere from $1,000 to $4,000, small scale, but could accept a number of applications 00:40:54.900 --> 00:41:01.960 - with that funding. And that will be due at the end of January. And we'll review applications thereafter 00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:08.883 - and announce the winners at the end of February. So that's not like a rolling application? That one's 00:41:08.883 --> 00:41:09.630 - more of a, 00:41:09.986 --> 00:41:21.952 - One deadline, one review set. Yeah, yeah. A little different, yeah. Great, any other questions? Okay, 00:41:21.952 --> 00:41:33.214 - well thank you very much for the report. Lots of good stuff going on. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. 00:41:34.018 --> 00:41:40.023 - All right, well, I think we're back on track with the original agenda now, so it should be a little 00:41:40.023 --> 00:41:46.089 - easier to follow. So that brings us to item 6B, which is the grant proposal. So I'm going to pass it 00:41:46.089 --> 00:41:52.575 - over to Chris to intro that, and I'll pull up the... If you need me to zoom in on any parts of the proposal 00:41:52.575 --> 00:41:56.478 - itself, let me know, and I can... One thing I should say is I... 00:41:57.186 --> 00:42:03.770 - I don't know how it is possible, but you got an earlier, I sent you an earlier draft with the only difference 00:42:03.770 --> 00:42:09.756 - that I'm aware of. I have an email ready to send to everyone right now if you would like me to send 00:42:09.756 --> 00:42:15.921 - you the correct draft. The only difference is that the budget, I think the only difference is that the 00:42:15.921 --> 00:42:22.145 - budget has more line items in there that spells out specific costs. So it's like gloves, mulch, compost 00:42:22.145 --> 00:42:23.582 - rather than a lump sum. 00:42:24.194 --> 00:42:29.998 - It literally doesn't make sense. Can you show that to me real quick? Yeah, I can send it to everyone 00:42:29.998 --> 00:42:36.205 - or just you? I mean, I think we could send it to everyone as long as we post it on board after the meeting. 00:42:36.205 --> 00:42:42.009 - Is that all right? OK, yeah. Why don't we do that? And then I can pull it up on the screen so we can 00:42:42.009 --> 00:42:47.813 - all send. Basically, so Jasper is here as a rep for the neighborhood planting project. So if we have 00:42:47.813 --> 00:42:53.790 - any questions that I can't directly answer, we can direct them to Jasper. But do you want to sit it up? 00:42:54.882 --> 00:43:07.515 - It's your prerogative, whatever you like. So this grant is intended to come out of the $6,000 that we 00:43:07.515 --> 00:43:20.024 - identified last meeting that was not earmarked for anything and would just disappear into the budget 00:43:20.024 --> 00:43:24.606 - if it wasn't earmarked by next year. 00:43:25.442 --> 00:43:32.242 - The message out to folks, I contacted people I knew in town to see if there were any projects worth 00:43:32.242 --> 00:43:39.586 - allocating that money to and found out that there was a big budget shortfall this year for the neighborhood 00:43:39.586 --> 00:43:46.386 - planning project, which has been going on for at least five years. Ten years. Ten years, okay. This 00:43:46.386 --> 00:43:49.310 - is why Jasper is here. And apparently this 00:43:49.570 --> 00:43:55.963 - previous spring, which is when the event is hosted. The event is basically a distribution of thousands 00:43:55.963 --> 00:44:02.295 - of what are called small whips. They're very small trees that can be bought quite cheaply in bulk and 00:44:02.295 --> 00:44:08.502 - then distributed. The number we have for this is 6,000 that are going to be given away in town, and 00:44:08.502 --> 00:44:15.454 - that's what this funding is for. They actually coordinate with other projects around the state, so there's like 00:44:15.586 --> 00:44:24.048 - tens of thousands of trees that get distributed around the state. But this money is strictly for Bloomington. 00:44:24.048 --> 00:44:31.817 - It's a really cool project. It's a fun event. And they not only distribute trees, but they also have 00:44:31.817 --> 00:44:39.663 - plans to develop three areas. I don't know if Melissa's talked about this. Yes. So it's in the grant. 00:44:39.663 --> 00:44:44.894 - We're still in communications with several different projects about 00:44:45.346 --> 00:44:54.280 - where we would do basically micro parks of like here is a grove of native fruit or not bearing trees. 00:44:54.280 --> 00:45:03.127 - But we have a few different projects that we're are definitely would be viable for. So that would be 00:45:03.127 --> 00:45:11.887 - stepping stones shelter that is opening up on the location of the cicada cinema and friendly beasts 00:45:11.887 --> 00:45:13.726 - that just opened and 00:45:13.922 --> 00:45:20.953 - the Avalon Community Land Trust, I believe, was listed. So yeah, we are in those conversations and we've 00:45:20.953 --> 00:45:27.783 - done plantings like that before at other locations, including TreeLU Neighborhood Association. We did 00:45:27.783 --> 00:45:34.547 - two large groves there as well. I should emphasize that, I'm glad you pointed out, these are largely 00:45:34.547 --> 00:45:41.310 - fruit and nut bearing trees. They're native trees that get distributed. So it's very like, you know, 00:45:41.762 --> 00:45:51.021 - The idea is to increase sort of community level resilience and resources. So not only is this sort of 00:45:51.021 --> 00:46:00.189 - community developed and community coordinated, it helps grow ground level knowledge, experience, and 00:46:00.189 --> 00:46:05.182 - literally resources. They use WIPs instead of like the 00:46:06.306 --> 00:46:12.899 - $300 trees you get from nurseries because a they're much cheaper and you can get many more 00:46:12.899 --> 00:46:20.361 - of them distributed but be there is a school of thought that they Establish themselves better and grow 00:46:20.361 --> 00:46:27.679 - faster once they are established than those transplants from nurseries so This funding is to address 00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:33.982 - a gap that was unexpected and came through last year. Usually they get funding through 00:46:35.682 --> 00:46:41.977 - They get a lot of donations around the time of the project in April. And this year, for reasons they 00:46:41.977 --> 00:46:48.521 - have yet to understand, there was a significant gap, like around $4,000. And when I was talking to folks 00:46:48.521 --> 00:46:54.753 - involved, they said that they were going to have to put things on personal credit cards in order to 00:46:54.753 --> 00:47:01.360 - pool resources and buy these things themselves. So it seemed like a really good candidate at every level, 00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:05.598 - both in terms of theme and in terms of addressing this problem too. 00:47:06.850 --> 00:47:14.264 - put this money into Bloomington in this particular way. I sent that budget around so you can see what 00:47:14.264 --> 00:47:21.750 - all the, everything's gonna be spent on, but it's like compost, deer cages, trees, that kind of stuff, 00:47:21.750 --> 00:47:29.091 - and maybe some refreshments or things for the different events that people have. So it shakes out to 00:47:29.091 --> 00:47:36.286 - around roughly $4,000, depending on how things come through, and I think that's roughly everything 00:47:38.338 --> 00:47:45.945 - salient about this right now, but please, if you have any questions, we're happy to answer them. If 00:47:45.945 --> 00:47:54.085 - I can just add, thanks. The project is part of the Center for Sustainable Living, which is a long-standing 00:47:54.085 --> 00:48:01.996 - nonprofit that also hosts the bike project and a bunch of other projects. Redbook Books. Redbook Books, 00:48:01.996 --> 00:48:08.158 - The Overlook, and yeah. Co-op Housing. Co-op Housing is a separate organization. 00:48:09.858 --> 00:48:17.396 - Do you know, are you guys just ordering like 60 wildlife packets from Volonia or? No, great question. 00:48:17.396 --> 00:48:25.230 - We have already, we have selected what we want. I think there's a lot of pawpaws this year in particular, 00:48:25.230 --> 00:48:32.694 - but we get some. We don't just get the wildlife packets because we want to make sure that what we're 00:48:32.694 --> 00:48:36.094 - getting most of it is edible to humans. Okay. 00:48:36.258 --> 00:48:43.752 - And we are getting a variety of like we do get some big trees, but we're also getting a lot of shrouds 00:48:43.752 --> 00:48:51.245 - We're getting a lot of like gooseberries and hazelnut usually so big variation in size, right? I guess 00:48:51.245 --> 00:48:59.030 - edible but not readily like acorn right mass trees People you know, we're giving these trees to individual 00:48:59.030 --> 00:49:04.414 - homeowners in large part. So like people don't People want a little shrub 00:49:04.578 --> 00:49:12.758 - that they can eat in a few years. We give away pecans, but those will produce pecans in like 20, 00:49:12.758 --> 00:49:21.274 - 30 years. And it's worth it. That started as whips. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I have a question. And 00:49:21.274 --> 00:49:30.213 - apologies for not being familiar with your project history. What's the distribution plan for 6,000 trees? 00:49:30.213 --> 00:49:32.574 - Because that does seem like 00:49:32.994 --> 00:49:40.017 - a lot for a community our size. It is a lot and we do it every year. Really? Yeah, so we have a big 00:49:40.017 --> 00:49:47.040 - distribution day. I believe in this plan we would have two distribution days because this past year 00:49:47.040 --> 00:49:54.133 - we had, I wanna say more than 150, 200 people come by our alleyway in one day and that was a lot. So 00:49:54.133 --> 00:49:58.558 - having two distribution days, but yeah, we have people come in 00:49:58.786 --> 00:50:06.516 - Some people will get just a tree, some people will get 15 trees. We have really high demand. We always 00:50:06.516 --> 00:50:14.247 - put out a Google form to sign up for trees and then we have to shut it off at a certain point. Oh yes, 00:50:14.247 --> 00:50:21.902 - I remember seeing the Google form. For the last four years, I want to say, we've done around 6,000 in 00:50:21.902 --> 00:50:22.878 - Bloomington. 00:50:23.938 --> 00:50:30.931 - Prior to that, like the six years before that, we were a bit smaller scale, but we've been operating 00:50:30.931 --> 00:50:38.063 - at this scale for four years. Wow. That's great to hear. Thank you. It's a really fun event also. Must 00:50:38.063 --> 00:50:45.195 - emphasize that. Any other questions? How big are these trees? Like when we are handing them out? Yeah. 00:50:45.195 --> 00:50:46.718 - It looks like a twig. 00:50:47.106 --> 00:50:54.003 - It's easy to distribute them because they weigh about an ounce. Do you have any kind of data on survival 00:50:54.003 --> 00:51:00.573 - rate of them? I know that would be super hard to track. I don't know. What I do know is I have lots 00:51:00.573 --> 00:51:07.142 - of friends who have planted these trees in their yard and are producing fruit now. So that's a very 00:51:07.142 --> 00:51:13.711 - anecdotal answer. It depends largely on the person gets this whip and then they need to do the step 00:51:13.711 --> 00:51:16.798 - of planting it, which is why I'm excited about 00:51:17.282 --> 00:51:23.755 - doing planting events where we're in control of the whole process and making sure that it gets watered 00:51:23.755 --> 00:51:30.480 - and all of that. Because we have a much higher likelihood of knowing that's going to survive. The Sycamore 00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:37.016 - Land Trust does a similar giveaway for Arbor Day, if you've ever seen those at Blooming Foods. And they 00:51:37.016 --> 00:51:43.551 - are little sticks. And anecdotally, I have about eight or 10 in my yard that have survived however many 00:51:43.551 --> 00:51:45.374 - years. I think I've had one. 00:51:46.434 --> 00:51:54.003 - whip dye of all the ones that I've planted. I would think that the hazelnuts too and some of the shrubbery 00:51:54.003 --> 00:52:01.219 - is pretty hardy. Some things like a shagbark hickory, for example, they really take a lot of care and 00:52:01.219 --> 00:52:08.434 - don't do much for quite a long time. Some of these that I'm guessing that you're getting from Bologna 00:52:08.434 --> 00:52:16.286 - are almost a weedy species. I guess that's a plus is what I'm getting at. These aren't necessarily the type of 00:52:16.610 --> 00:52:24.031 - trees that really take intensive care in the first few years. And most of them are native, or all of 00:52:24.031 --> 00:52:31.378 - them are native. So really, they should be native weeds. And I think the other advantage is that it 00:52:31.378 --> 00:52:38.873 - doesn't require a lot of resources to plant them. Like, I was eight months pregnant when I planted my 00:52:38.873 --> 00:52:45.118 - first set of them that I had. And so it makes it accessible to a lot more households 00:52:45.442 --> 00:52:52.159 - than having a big burlap root hole. Yeah, and you've got to dig a giant hole. And you have to dig like 00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:58.811 - 6 to 12 inch hole to plant these. So I should probably, one thing I didn't say is that the gap that's 00:52:58.811 --> 00:53:05.397 - being made up here is for the orders. So without this money, the trees cannot be ordered. The orders 00:53:05.397 --> 00:53:11.919 - have to go in by early winter. So that's why the money is actually quite useful. It's serendipitous 00:53:11.919 --> 00:53:14.462 - that this money was available and this 00:53:15.042 --> 00:53:21.226 - hole had appeared in terms of their funding, but. Yeah, we were talking about like, who's credit card 00:53:21.226 --> 00:53:27.410 - can we put the money on? Is there a particular, you said early winter, but is there a particular kind 00:53:27.410 --> 00:53:33.715 - of deadline that you have in mind for the purchase? Last time you, so as far as the money goes, as long 00:53:33.715 --> 00:53:39.838 - as it's earmarked, it doesn't have to be spent in 2026 is my understanding, correct? That's correct. 00:53:39.838 --> 00:53:43.294 - All right, so that should be good, but I think that it's 00:53:43.618 --> 00:53:49.928 - Don't the purchases happen in like January or February? I think the sooner the better. We wouldn't have 00:53:49.928 --> 00:53:55.996 - trouble spending the money by the end of the year, if that's the question. Yeah, because they would 00:53:55.996 --> 00:54:02.245 - get obligated. It all goes according to plan at some point in December, probably. But it could be near 00:54:02.245 --> 00:54:08.556 - the end or something. Our deadline for setting up a new PO is December 10. So as long as I have a draft 00:54:08.556 --> 00:54:10.558 - grant agreement, we're good. OK. 00:54:10.850 --> 00:54:16.717 - Okay, so it doesn't sound like that will be an issue at the end of the time. Is that something I ought 00:54:16.717 --> 00:54:22.471 - to be a part of that process, or is that something that happens on the staff end? Well, if they vote 00:54:22.471 --> 00:54:28.281 - to approve tonight, I can start working on the draft grant agreement, and I'll get it in the queue to 00:54:28.281 --> 00:54:34.091 - review. I can't guarantee that it will be approved by December 10th, but as long as I have that draft 00:54:34.091 --> 00:54:40.414 - grant agreement, I can set up the purchase order and lock in the funding. But it wouldn't be actually paid out 00:54:40.546 --> 00:54:48.794 - to begin until 2027. That's the clarification. It all depends on when it's executed. If we vote on it 00:54:48.794 --> 00:54:56.881 - tonight, you're approved. I can get the draft grant agreement. Hopefully it'll be approved by legal 00:54:56.881 --> 00:55:05.534 - and we can get it executed by December 10th. That would be ideal. Is this a reimbursement based grant? No. 00:55:06.466 --> 00:55:12.213 - In the grant agreement, there would be specific reporting requirements. So one year from the date of 00:55:12.213 --> 00:55:17.960 - receiving the grant, you would want to provide us with copies of receipts for all the purchases. And 00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:23.821 - then you'd probably want to do some sort of tracking of making sure that those 6,000 trees that you're 00:55:23.821 --> 00:55:29.569 - giving away, that they are Bloomington residents. I don't know how you'll do that. Maybe when people 00:55:29.569 --> 00:55:32.926 - drive through with their car, you can ask where they live. 00:55:33.122 --> 00:55:40.779 - I don't know. You have the form. I think if we don't already ask in the form, that wouldn't be hard. 00:55:40.779 --> 00:55:48.512 - We just want to make sure that the finding that we're providing benefits Bloomington residents. Every 00:55:48.512 --> 00:55:56.397 - recipient of a tree have to be a Bloomington resident? Or we just want to see the majority of them went 00:55:56.397 --> 00:56:02.462 - to? I think 27,000 trees away, but 6,000 of them will be in Bloomington. Right. 00:56:03.746 --> 00:56:09.787 - So like an Allen'sville resident, if it couldn't come to this event in Bloomington, would they have 00:56:09.787 --> 00:56:16.008 - other trees to give away? Yeah. At least 6,000 of them have to be Bloomington residents, which I don't 00:56:16.008 --> 00:56:22.411 - think would be a problem. Just wondering. Yeah. No problem. That's a big question. Can I move to approve? 00:56:22.411 --> 00:56:28.875 - Yeah, I guess we haven't made a motion yet. So yeah, you're making a motion to approve. Is there a second? 00:56:28.875 --> 00:56:32.318 - I'll second that. It seems like a very deserted project. 00:56:32.450 --> 00:56:41.899 - Wonderful. We have a motion to second. Is there any discussion? All right. Let me just check on that. 00:56:41.899 --> 00:56:51.441 - OK. Great. Well, then we'll move to a vote to approve this grant proposal as proposed. Tara? Yes. Yes. 00:56:51.441 --> 00:57:00.798 - Justin? Yes. Rebecca's not here. Chris? Yay. Yay. Zach? Yes. Yes. Kutsma Baralo is not here anymore. 00:57:01.186 --> 00:57:09.962 - Teres? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yeah. Yes. Maria? Yes. Yes. Diana? Yes. Yes. And Ross? Yes. Yes. Great. Wonderful. 00:57:09.962 --> 00:57:18.904 - It passes. So thank you so much. Thank you both for your work and putting that together. It's an incredible 00:57:18.904 --> 00:57:27.184 - turnaround. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you, Heather, for being here tonight as well and helping us 00:57:27.184 --> 00:57:29.502 - understand a little better. 00:57:29.826 --> 00:57:39.784 - Thank you to the staff for helping get all this set up in time for the meeting. I mean, I saw the event. 00:57:39.784 --> 00:57:49.362 - I learned about it last year and it seems like a really cool organization and event. Well, thanks so 00:57:49.362 --> 00:57:58.846 - much. Thank you. You must stay until the end of the meeting. All right, great. Well, hey, let's not 00:57:58.978 --> 00:58:05.773 - deviate from the topic of trees. We'll go from whips to significant and heritage trees. Resolution 2026-07. 00:58:05.773 --> 00:58:12.441 - And so we've done a first reading on this already, so maybe what I'll do is ask for a motion and a second 00:58:12.441 --> 00:58:19.110 - to adopt this, and then we can discuss further before we move on to a vote. Move to adopt. OK, so there's 00:58:19.110 --> 00:58:21.438 - a motion. Is there a second? Second. 00:58:21.730 --> 00:58:26.420 - Okay, wonderful. Um, so it brings up discussion. So, um, Zach, did you want to say anything just to 00:58:26.420 --> 00:58:31.204 - kick off the discussion? I mean, you guys have had this since September. I sincerely hope you've read 00:58:31.204 --> 00:58:35.988 - at least part of it since then. Um, essentially it would add a sick, uh, it's a major overhaul of the 00:58:35.988 --> 00:58:40.819 - way the city handles heritage trees. Um, the city code currently has no major protections for heritage 00:58:40.819 --> 00:58:45.650 - trees. It doesn't mention them in the code, but it doesn't actually provide significant protection for 00:58:45.650 --> 00:58:49.918 - them at all. Um, this would provide that fill that hole and it would make Bloomington, um, 00:58:50.498 --> 00:58:55.676 - It would put us on par with sort of the national leaders in protecting heritage trees and development, 00:58:55.676 --> 00:59:00.954 - and aim to make Bloomington one of the first, the first city in the state of Indiana to provide at least 00:59:00.954 --> 00:59:06.082 - limited protection for heritage trees on private property outside of development as well, although in 00:59:06.082 --> 00:59:11.260 - a way that is targeted and to try to avoid preemption and provoking anger or anything like that. I can 00:59:11.260 --> 00:59:16.639 - go into detail on any and all of that. Process wise, this was reviewed by the urban forester, went through 00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:19.454 - multiple drafts. His comments improved it dramatically. 00:59:19.586 --> 00:59:26.470 - He's in support of the Tree Commission. He also took it to the Tree Commission on his own. He took it 00:59:26.470 --> 00:59:33.354 - to it on his own, and they voted unanimously to support it. There are several letters of support, and 00:59:33.354 --> 00:59:40.171 - I can go into detail on any of the different parts of this, but that's it in a nutshell. A few quick 00:59:40.171 --> 00:59:46.110 - questions for you. Sorry, I'm looking at this again. I did look at this two months ago. 00:59:47.042 --> 00:59:52.868 - One of the road, if you've already got the forester, so I assume some of these are already answered, 00:59:52.868 --> 00:59:58.867 - but everyone seems to hate silver maples, I understand why. They're still lovely, but people hate them. 00:59:58.867 --> 01:00:04.636 - They get gigantic, those are heritage trees, but people often wanna get rid of them because they're 01:00:04.636 --> 01:00:10.635 - afraid of them. So I guess the real question is not about silver maples, but are there species-specific 01:00:10.635 --> 01:00:14.846 - guidelines? Not species-specific, but there are exceptions for, I think, 01:00:15.394 --> 01:00:21.734 - So if a tree is dead, dangerous, highly deleterious to public infrastructure, which was the Urban Forester's 01:00:21.734 --> 01:00:27.027 - word, choice of language, invasive, I think that's it, they are excluded entirely from all 01:00:27.027 --> 01:00:32.902 - of the protections. Okay, so if someone says like, hey, I'm afraid of this branch, they can cut that 01:00:32.902 --> 01:00:39.126 - tree down. Not if you're afraid of it, no, it has to be something, so there's a process, either a licensed 01:00:39.126 --> 01:00:43.198 - arborist or the Urban Forester has to certify as one of those things, 01:00:43.362 --> 01:00:51.471 - And if a licensed arborist does it, the urban forester can overrule that. OK, second question related 01:00:51.471 --> 01:00:59.898 - to this. You said something about end runs or ways to address. I'm always concerned about property owning 01:00:59.898 --> 01:01:06.814 - people's relationship to their property and the way that, I mean, if I'm being bitchy, 01:01:07.042 --> 01:01:12.210 - People treat their yards like it's their living room and they're practically out there vacuuming them. 01:01:12.210 --> 01:01:17.227 - It's insane to me, but they manicure these. Long story short, people are going to be mad if they're 01:01:17.227 --> 01:01:22.344 - like, the city says I can't do stuff to my yard. There's nothing in here that says you can't. It just 01:01:22.344 --> 01:01:27.662 - says you have to contribute to the city tree planting fund if you take down a 24 inch tree. OK. So you're 01:01:27.662 --> 01:01:32.730 - still allowed to. You just have to contribute to the city tree planting fund to make up for the fact 01:01:32.730 --> 01:01:36.894 - that you're taking part of the canopy down. OK. And then last question. Thank you. 01:01:38.594 --> 01:01:44.746 - My big concern, I don't know, this is probably not rooted in anything like informed by data more than 01:01:44.746 --> 01:01:50.898 - my experience, but the major blight of trees in my experience in Bloomington and everywhere I've ever 01:01:50.898 --> 01:01:57.110 - lived are the utility companies, specifically like Duke in this instance. I've been through big fights 01:01:57.110 --> 01:02:03.262 - with them, they've ignored me, it's been insane, it's been insane. They lie to you, they pretend they 01:02:03.262 --> 01:02:07.966 - don't hear you, it's bad. Duke is responsible for the mangling of some of the 01:02:08.066 --> 01:02:14.690 - the best trees in town in my experience. Does this deal with utility company? Because part of what's 01:02:14.690 --> 01:02:21.315 - going on is it's not even Duke. It's the subcontractors they hire, and the subcontractors are really 01:02:21.315 --> 01:02:27.873 - afraid of getting dinged by Duke for not doing more than they should. So Duke is somewhat protected 01:02:27.873 --> 01:02:34.432 - by state law as a public regulated utility. They kind of can do what they want to a certain extent. 01:02:34.432 --> 01:02:36.990 - So the city code doesn't always apply. 01:02:37.122 --> 01:02:42.037 - to Duke, and I don't think it would apply in this case. This is primarily in development context, so 01:02:42.037 --> 01:02:47.048 - when a large housing development is going on, I'm in favor, we think we need more housing development, 01:02:47.048 --> 01:02:52.255 - but I think we should have to work around heritage trees that are older than the city itself, for example. 01:02:52.255 --> 01:02:57.413 - So it would provide really ironclad protections for heritage trees in development, and lesser protections 01:02:57.413 --> 01:03:02.327 - for what I'm calling significant trees, which are 12 inches. And regardless of whether they're taken 01:03:02.327 --> 01:03:06.366 - down or not, it would be hard to take down a heritage tree in development, period. 01:03:06.498 --> 01:03:12.939 - But there are some exceptions for it. If they are taken down, it requires replanting them at four to 01:03:12.939 --> 01:03:19.635 - one the diameter, either on site or contributing the equivalent amount into a city tree replanting fund. 01:03:19.635 --> 01:03:26.013 - So it's primarily in development. I wish I could do more with utilities. I'm not sure touching this 01:03:26.013 --> 01:03:32.390 - kind of an electric wire that you can't touch. We saw that with the student project. Thank you very 01:03:32.390 --> 01:03:34.686 - much. That really clarifies things. 01:03:35.906 --> 01:03:42.654 - I have a question. So it looks like in the, for the development portion, there is the distinction of 01:03:42.654 --> 01:03:49.469 - heritage and significant trees where on the private property. It's just heritage. It's just heritage. 01:03:49.469 --> 01:03:56.150 - So for the development, that's like, uh, PUDs and things of that nature. So not just PUDs, but also 01:03:56.150 --> 01:04:02.831 - any housing development at all. Anytime you're going, any, I, so back up a second. I'm all, another 01:04:02.831 --> 01:04:04.702 - thing it does is currently, 01:04:04.866 --> 01:04:10.219 - the tree protection requirements only apply on lots that have what is called a closed canopy wooded 01:04:10.219 --> 01:04:15.946 - area, end quotes. That is not defined anywhere in the code ever. They are, the city department of planning 01:04:15.946 --> 01:04:21.727 - is defining it as I think a four or five trees that are bunched together, but there's nothing that requires 01:04:21.727 --> 01:04:27.186 - them to do that. And they could completely change that any day if they wanted to. I am instead saying 01:04:27.186 --> 01:04:32.593 - it is the tree protection requirements now apply to any site that requires a permit period. And that 01:04:32.593 --> 01:04:33.342 - would include 01:04:33.730 --> 01:04:40.369 - heritage and significant trees. I don't know if that answers your question. Yeah, that does. I just 01:04:40.369 --> 01:04:47.008 - was at first I was reading it at that the three to one and the four to one and then I was under the 01:04:47.008 --> 01:04:53.912 - impression at first that like on private property there was a higher onus but now it's less. Yes. Yeah. 01:04:53.912 --> 01:05:00.551 - Okay. And then my other question for the city planting fund. That's those are pretty much all going 01:05:00.551 --> 01:05:02.078 - into the right away or 01:05:02.178 --> 01:05:08.187 - They would, yes, mostly. They would go into parks or the public right away, yes. And that is mostly, 01:05:08.187 --> 01:05:14.314 - that's, is that fund inclusive, I don't know if you know this, but of salaries for that department and 01:05:14.314 --> 01:05:20.263 - everything, or is that pretty much just? I originally had this in, I had a version where we created 01:05:20.263 --> 01:05:26.450 - a city tree planting fund that had a ton of rules, and I was, or before one of his requests was to take 01:05:26.450 --> 01:05:28.830 - that out because they already have one. 01:05:28.994 --> 01:05:34.109 - And he wanted a little bit more flexibility about where they go and where he wanted to be able to say 01:05:34.109 --> 01:05:39.124 - where they go and what type of trees, et cetera. And I consider that a reasonable modification. And 01:05:39.124 --> 01:05:44.139 - so adapted that into there. So I did not create or propose creating a tree planting fund because he 01:05:44.139 --> 01:05:49.204 - said there already is one. I don't know exactly. But it would be primarily trees in the public right 01:05:49.204 --> 01:05:53.918 - of way. And this would be more work for the urban forest. I mean, this is where you're going. 01:05:55.586 --> 01:06:02.515 - I had initially also included something about having a tree review fee or something, a nominal fee to 01:06:02.515 --> 01:06:09.581 - add more money to the Urban Foresters budget to compensate for the work, and he wasn't super interested 01:06:09.581 --> 01:06:16.782 - in that, so I took that out as well. Yeah, because I do like there's some language here about contractors 01:06:16.782 --> 01:06:23.643 - and trying to actually get buy-in from those taking down trees. Because they can't just go in and do 01:06:23.643 --> 01:06:24.798 - it and then, oh, 01:06:25.154 --> 01:06:30.522 - Yeah, so the method of enforcement, I think, is what you're talking about. So for private property owners, 01:06:30.522 --> 01:06:35.689 - if you're taking down a 24-inch giant tree, nine times out of ten, you're not the one doing it. You're 01:06:35.689 --> 01:06:40.907 - hiring a contractor company to come do it. So the enforcement mechanism for taking down a heritage tree 01:06:40.907 --> 01:06:45.974 - on your property and not paying into the tree, the requirement would be you're allowed to do it. You 01:06:45.974 --> 01:06:51.141 - could take it down if you want to tomorrow. You just have to pay into a city tree replanting fund. And 01:06:51.141 --> 01:06:54.302 - the way that would be enforced is the contractor that you hire 01:06:54.498 --> 01:07:00.236 - has to keep a copy of your notification to the city that you're taking down the street. And the contractor 01:07:00.236 --> 01:07:05.599 - would be punished if they took down a tree and didn't have that on file. So the homeowner would not 01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:11.230 - be punished at all. It's entirely on the contractors. It's similar to if you're decommissioning a septic 01:07:11.230 --> 01:07:16.700 - tank. You have to like, your contractor has to like provide you with documentation. Yeah, you have to 01:07:16.700 --> 01:07:20.990 - notify the city they're going to do it and the contractors keep a copy on file. 01:07:23.586 --> 01:07:30.241 - My question is, and I'm sure this has been addressed and I just don't have the background for it, for 01:07:30.241 --> 01:07:36.962 - private property owners that have financial hardship, I mean, I paid three grand to take out my silver 01:07:36.962 --> 01:07:43.552 - maple to then have to pay for 36 inches of tree is a lot of burden. So how can we address the burden 01:07:43.552 --> 01:07:50.143 - that a low income private property owner might have? I mean, if you have to take out a tree and it's 01:07:50.143 --> 01:07:51.774 - for a legitimate reason, 01:07:51.938 --> 01:07:56.708 - I would consider a legitimate reason. You don't have to pay at all. But if you're just taking it out 01:07:56.708 --> 01:08:01.620 - because you don't want the tree there, I think you should still have to pay. The intention is to create 01:08:01.620 --> 01:08:06.484 - a financial burden to make people have to jump over and make people pause and think for a second about 01:08:06.484 --> 01:08:11.255 - taking down a giant tree without there being a legitimate reason for it. For an aesthetic. Yeah. But 01:08:11.255 --> 01:08:16.166 - what you're saying is those exceptions would include not having to pay into the fund. Yeah. If the tree 01:08:16.166 --> 01:08:19.614 - is dead, damaged, highly deleterious to public infrastructure, invasive, 01:08:20.450 --> 01:08:26.711 - I think there's one more that I'm forgetting. None of this applies. So the forester has the flexibility 01:08:26.711 --> 01:08:33.213 - to determine how deleterious that tree is being. A licensed arborist can do so also, and the urban forester 01:08:33.213 --> 01:08:39.475 - has the final say. Yeah. And if you're going to pay a tree removal company to take down a tree, I don't 01:08:39.475 --> 01:08:45.555 - think they're going to charge you extra for the assessment of if it's... I don't think so. No. Yeah. 01:08:45.555 --> 01:08:46.398 - I don't know. 01:08:46.978 --> 01:08:54.685 - because they want you to do it. Yeah, exactly. I'm also just kind of pausing on the cost. So one question 01:08:54.685 --> 01:09:01.956 - is the four to one ratio. How did you arrive at that? It's to take into account the fact that these 01:09:01.956 --> 01:09:09.300 - trees, when you replant them, are going to take decades, if not longer, to actually fully compensate 01:09:09.300 --> 01:09:15.262 - for the quality that was provided by the original tree. So just planting one tree 01:09:15.586 --> 01:09:21.176 - that might one day eventually get to that, or that's roughly the equivalent. It isn't going to have 01:09:21.176 --> 01:09:26.990 - anywhere near the ecosystem value of a giant 200-year-old oak. And many of them probably will die. Some 01:09:26.990 --> 01:09:32.804 - of them are probably going to die. It won't even last the entire time. Only a portion of them are going 01:09:32.804 --> 01:09:38.505 - to last that time. And it will take decades, if not a century, for them to fully get to the size that 01:09:38.505 --> 01:09:44.263 - would compensate for the loss that was caused by taking down a giant tree. And I think that's standard 01:09:44.263 --> 01:09:44.990 - in tree law, 01:09:45.122 --> 01:09:52.590 - like a large ratio, like I've seen even larger 7 to 1 cost. The end of my memorandum has a table of 01:09:52.590 --> 01:10:00.133 - all the various other cities that I was looking at. Tree replanting ratios are included in there for 01:10:00.133 --> 01:10:07.826 - a couple of them. So that's kind of where I came from. Yeah, I think my thought on that is, especially 01:10:07.826 --> 01:10:14.174 - since they are primarily going into the right way, those trees have very hard lives. 01:10:14.850 --> 01:10:27.149 - Thinking about the equity question, though. So if a landowner has a single silver maple, that's 24 inches. 01:10:27.149 --> 01:10:39.447 - And they want to cut it down. Basically, the replanting, that would then be 96 inches. If you get two-inch 01:10:39.447 --> 01:10:42.206 - trees, that's 48 trees. 01:10:43.458 --> 01:10:50.888 - Most landowners probably aren't going to have the room for that. And that's got to run up into the tens 01:10:50.888 --> 01:10:58.247 - of thousands of dollars for all those trees. But I think that's also the goal. The goal is to say, but 01:10:58.247 --> 01:11:05.392 - some people, a wealthy landowner might say, yeah, I can afford that. I'm going to do it. And that's 01:11:05.392 --> 01:11:12.894 - a privilege they get because of their wealth that another private landowner doesn't have that privilege. 01:11:13.154 --> 01:11:19.450 - To me, if there's a legitimate reason to take the tree down, then all of this goes away. If there's 01:11:19.450 --> 01:11:25.747 - not a legitimate reason to take it down, you're just taking it down because you don't want the tree 01:11:25.747 --> 01:11:31.917 - there. That leads to if I can afford to take it down, I'll take it down if I can't. I don't know. 01:11:31.917 --> 01:11:38.654 - I mean, I think that the idea that ecological destruction is a right we should all have access to is like, 01:11:40.834 --> 01:11:47.624 - Especially when we're talking about things that are over the city itself. Misaligned with what the actual 01:11:47.624 --> 01:11:54.287 - intent of this is. This is for wealthy landowners who want to clear cut something to have a better view 01:11:54.287 --> 01:12:01.013 - to not be able to destroy our watershed because they have to pay four times as much. So the equity issue 01:12:01.013 --> 01:12:07.739 - that you point out is a real one. It's also, unfortunately, the universal equity issue of all fine-based 01:12:07.739 --> 01:12:10.430 - incentives or disincentives as far as I'm 01:12:11.394 --> 01:12:19.667 - It's a thing that I come across all the time in ag stuff, in dealing with agribusiness, in dealing with 01:12:19.667 --> 01:12:27.939 - general sustainability things, any kind of social regulation around this problem. It's a real question. 01:12:27.939 --> 01:12:36.610 - I think as long as you are creating carve-outs, and I do wonder about, I think silver maples are a specific, 01:12:36.610 --> 01:12:40.030 - a very specific problem that might warrant 01:12:40.162 --> 01:12:47.025 - a kind of carve out here in a particular way because they all got planted 50 years ago because they 01:12:47.025 --> 01:12:53.887 - grow so fast. And now they're all in this position. I think that's a sort of, there's a baby boomer 01:12:53.887 --> 01:13:00.819 - sized bump of that. And then there will be not that many problems with silver maples after that. But 01:13:00.819 --> 01:13:07.956 - my neighbor shut down, just for, because they didn't like the shade, the tree was like, no, it was this 01:13:07.956 --> 01:13:09.054 - big. So anyway. 01:13:09.314 --> 01:13:17.322 - The IDNR has a list of trees that they do and don't support in their grant-making process, and silver 01:13:17.322 --> 01:13:25.958 - maples are on the no list for exactly those reasons. They're overpopulated, and they're not very structurally 01:13:25.958 --> 01:13:33.888 - sound. But that could be a benchmark for if you were to go to a... But I think the city already have 01:13:33.888 --> 01:13:38.206 - a tree species plan. There's a tree species list, yes. 01:13:38.466 --> 01:13:45.940 - Silver maple is specifically a matter, and this might bear on what you're talking about here, is the 01:13:45.940 --> 01:13:53.488 - one caveat in your plan that has to do, you're gonna get a lot of appeals for this tree is dangerous. 01:13:53.488 --> 01:14:00.888 - So suddenly there's gonna be a lot of really dangerous trees everywhere in town. And I think that's 01:14:00.888 --> 01:14:04.958 - another problem with a fine-based or legislation-based 01:14:05.794 --> 01:14:13.903 - approach. That's what policy does. It's an intrinsic problem with policy in general. It brings attention 01:14:13.903 --> 01:14:22.090 - to the current problems. I think a good kind of corollary to this in terms of private property and public 01:14:22.090 --> 01:14:29.967 - good is the way that we find snow in Bloomington. It's a flat fee for the amount of sidewalk in front 01:14:29.967 --> 01:14:34.910 - of your property. It's like a $50 fine. And it's set sort of at 01:14:35.074 --> 01:14:43.141 - the thought of a private homeowner, that being an annoying amount of money. I have seen, anecdotally, 01:14:43.141 --> 01:14:51.050 - that many large properties, apartment buildings, and commercial properties don't shovel for days at 01:14:51.050 --> 01:14:59.512 - a time because that is a cost that they are willing to just eat. So in gearing the fine to the independent 01:14:59.512 --> 01:15:00.382 - homeowner, 01:15:01.090 --> 01:15:08.393 - we are seeing a large infrastructure damage because you can't walk for sometimes miles of sidewalk because 01:15:08.393 --> 01:15:15.354 - they just don't. There's like, why? So the point here is that like, yes, this is a prohibitive amount 01:15:15.354 --> 01:15:22.657 - for somebody who wants to cut down a tree that they just don't like. But really the issue is the developer 01:15:22.657 --> 01:15:24.158 - that is clear cutting 01:15:24.258 --> 01:15:29.242 - Yes, entire. And in some cases, taking down areas that they said they were going to preserve and they 01:15:29.242 --> 01:15:34.178 - just took it down anyway. Just to bring home what I was saying about policy, the whole point is that 01:15:34.178 --> 01:15:39.162 - I think these are intrinsic problems with policy across the board with any kind of code and therefore 01:15:39.162 --> 01:15:44.391 - are not a good reason to prevent, I think, this going forward because I think the spirit and the mechanism 01:15:44.391 --> 01:15:47.518 - make sense to me and I think they are. Big trees, trees matter. 01:15:47.618 --> 01:15:53.508 - A lot. If it was up to me, I'd let dead trees stand because they really matter. Seattle agrees with 01:15:53.508 --> 01:15:59.457 - you. You have to have a permit to take down a dead tree. Taking down trees in the city of Seattle is 01:15:59.457 --> 01:16:05.524 - generally prohibited if they're six inches or larger. I would love to do something like that here, but 01:16:05.524 --> 01:16:11.532 - I scaled it back a bit because I knew that was probably not fly. But there are other cities like that 01:16:11.532 --> 01:16:16.126 - that have done much further than what I'm proposing here. I also want to just 01:16:16.578 --> 01:16:21.675 - We've been talking about fines. This is not a fine that I'm proposing. It's a payment into the city 01:16:21.675 --> 01:16:26.925 - tree planting fund just to compensate for the fact that you're taking part of it. It's not a fine. You 01:16:26.925 --> 01:16:32.073 - don't need a permit. You don't have to ask permission. You can take it down tomorrow if you want to. 01:16:32.073 --> 01:16:37.322 - You just have to pay an amount into the city tree planting fund to compensate for the fact that you're 01:16:37.322 --> 01:16:42.878 - taking down part of the city's tree canopy. So I essentially did not structure it like a fine. Yeah, anyway. 01:16:42.978 --> 01:16:50.259 - Yeah for sure and this will be a that will be probably the most controversial part of it. Anyway. How 01:16:50.259 --> 01:16:57.397 - is the amount determined? The urban forestry would determine it. I intentionally left that to them. 01:16:57.397 --> 01:17:04.749 - Okay. Because it's a variable. Yeah I mean if you're taking down a giant oak. I mean how much how much 01:17:04.749 --> 01:17:11.102 - would it cost how much would the equivalent cost of replanting like 48 two-inch trees be 01:17:11.234 --> 01:17:19.916 - I'm just trying to think of what that actually is. 45 cents, and they're not even a quarter of an inch. 01:17:19.916 --> 01:17:28.682 - And it is a variable cost, because it depends on where they're placing it. I think a two-inch tree isn't 01:17:28.682 --> 01:17:37.865 - just going to scale up. Yeah, probably. That's what I'm kind of wondering. What is a caliper inch replacement 01:17:37.865 --> 01:17:40.286 - right now? What do you mean? 01:17:40.706 --> 01:17:48.263 - But there's no requirement right now. No, I know. I know. But like, but they have a cost that they are 01:17:48.263 --> 01:17:55.819 - incurring planting trees. I don't have that right now. It said that like buying trees from the big box 01:17:55.819 --> 01:18:03.229 - stores, like 100 to 300, I think was the number they used depends on what you buy. So like take that 01:18:03.229 --> 01:18:07.998 - high end 300 multiply that by 48 two inch trees. That's $14,000. 01:18:08.866 --> 01:18:15.038 - That's a lot. And some people could easily say, yeah, I'm just going to pay that because I want to manicure 01:18:15.038 --> 01:18:20.753 - my lawn the way I want to, but other people couldn't. And the goal is to stop them from doing that. 01:18:20.753 --> 01:18:26.639 - That's the goal. It's to minimize how many people have access. You're talking about of the poor people 01:18:26.639 --> 01:18:32.525 - can't take down a tree that doesn't need to be taken down. To me, the equity issue is keeping the tree 01:18:32.525 --> 01:18:37.726 - for other people to be able to. It's not about stop. It's like, oh, the poor people can't. 01:18:39.586 --> 01:18:45.848 - Rob a store, because that would be cost prohibitive. They're doing something that we probably shouldn't 01:18:45.848 --> 01:18:51.870 - be doing. We should probably be putting a cost on, is the way I look at it. And the equity issue to 01:18:51.870 --> 01:18:58.313 - me is keeping the tree, particularly in areas that are more affected by climate change, that are typically 01:18:58.313 --> 01:19:04.455 - poorer areas. Those are the areas where we need more trees. And so preventing people from taking down 01:19:04.455 --> 01:19:08.670 - trees that don't need to be taken down to begin with is a goal to me. 01:19:08.962 --> 01:19:15.774 - That's a success if we're stopping people from taking down the tree. Anyway, that's my thinking. Because 01:19:15.774 --> 01:19:22.521 - again, for individuals on a private lot, this is only ever going to take, have any effect if the tree's 01:19:22.521 --> 01:19:29.203 - over two feet dbh. Yeah. And if they are doing it for a non-structural safety reason. Yeah. Yeah. It's 01:19:29.203 --> 01:19:35.691 - ecologically destructive to do. Yes. There's going to be a relatively specific demographic slice, I 01:19:35.691 --> 01:19:37.118 - think two would like. 01:19:38.114 --> 01:19:43.723 - property owners who are of limited means versus like people who are living in apartments in 01:19:43.723 --> 01:19:49.819 - large developments where the developer is actually going to be the person who will be like having a 01:19:49.819 --> 01:19:55.916 - qualms about chopping things down and they're the one who I think this might leverage. I don't know 01:19:55.916 --> 01:19:56.830 - maybe it would 01:19:58.146 --> 01:20:02.543 - Some kind of appeals process or something might be a good thing to have as a part of this, but like, 01:20:02.543 --> 01:20:07.332 - you know, overall the spirit of the proposal. And there is an appeals process already to the tree commission, 01:20:07.332 --> 01:20:11.772 - which I had one in there and they told me took it out because there already exists a process that you 01:20:11.772 --> 01:20:16.256 - can appeal things to the urban forester and you can take it to the tree commission. So people can have 01:20:16.256 --> 01:20:20.958 - a conversation about this if they're like frustrated or they're like, this really is like a problem for me. 01:20:21.058 --> 01:20:27.781 - It's not like this is just a hard wall. They can talk to the city. There is intentional flexibility 01:20:27.781 --> 01:20:34.707 - built into the system as it exists already and as I put it into here, having the urban forester be the 01:20:34.707 --> 01:20:41.430 - one who can make the decision and can take it to the tree commission if they disagree, et cetera. I 01:20:41.430 --> 01:20:48.422 - do wonder a bit too, like trees of this size, how many folks even currently, if the replacement is such 01:20:48.422 --> 01:20:50.910 - a high cost, if they are the type of 01:20:52.130 --> 01:20:58.082 - If they're already removing those trees, because the cost of just removing a tree like that is high. 01:20:58.082 --> 01:21:04.388 - It's quite high. Yes. So I don't know how much of these trees are currently being removed out of aesthetic 01:21:04.388 --> 01:21:10.046 - purpose. Anyways, I would think most of the trees that are being taken down that are this size. 01:21:11.458 --> 01:21:16.901 - If it's a financially strapped person, they're doing it because it is an individual danger. Yeah, there's 01:21:16.901 --> 01:21:22.138 - a real reason for it. And I think most of the trees are being taken down in development. That's where 01:21:22.138 --> 01:21:27.272 - the vast majority of that's why the bulk of the resolution tackles development. And I intentionally 01:21:27.272 --> 01:21:32.561 - tried to step lightly on private property outside of development. I don't think it would hit that many 01:21:32.561 --> 01:21:37.747 - people except for people that are just taking a tree down because they don't like the tree. That was 01:21:37.747 --> 01:21:39.390 - the goal of the way I wrote it. 01:21:42.946 --> 01:21:54.526 - 720, which probably, but yeah, like big development projects are gonna be interesting in relation to 01:21:54.526 --> 01:22:06.679 - this. All right, any further discussion? Okay. I think I have an amendment to make. It's not substantive, 01:22:06.679 --> 01:22:10.462 - it's just, it's, oh, here we go. 01:22:15.394 --> 01:22:22.940 - It's in multiple places. So I think in these clauses where it's talking about language that should be 01:22:22.940 --> 01:22:30.709 - added or amended, that the quote starts to open up what the language should be. And then we've got these 01:22:30.709 --> 01:22:38.107 - extraneous little guys here. So I think we just remove those so that it reads the way that it would 01:22:38.107 --> 01:22:44.766 - actually appear in the text instead of having I and then one. Does that make sense? Yeah. 01:22:45.218 --> 01:22:52.907 - And if we just went through everything in the resolved clauses and just took those out, that's what 01:22:52.907 --> 01:23:00.827 - I'd be offering as an amendment. So I'll put that forward, I'll move that. That amendment? Second. And 01:23:00.827 --> 01:23:08.747 - there's a second. Okay. Any discussion on that amendment? All right. We'll go through a roll call vote 01:23:08.747 --> 01:23:13.822 - then for that amendment. Tara? Yes. Yes, Justin, yes. Chris? Yes. 01:23:14.210 --> 01:23:24.689 - Yes, Zach? Yes. Yes. Terese? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? Abstain. Abstain. Diana? Yes. Yes. 01:23:24.689 --> 01:23:35.600 - And Ross? Yes. Yes. OK. That amendment is adopted. And so that brings us back to the main motion. Is 01:23:35.600 --> 01:23:41.758 - there any more discussion? Are we ready to go to a vote? 01:23:45.442 --> 01:23:59.782 - Okay, so we'll proceed to a vote, I should say, to adopt a resolution 2026-07 as amended. Tara? Yes. 01:23:59.782 --> 01:24:14.974 - Yes. Justin, yes. Chris? Yes. Yes. Zach? Yes. Yes. Terese? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? No. No. Diana? 01:24:15.394 --> 01:24:22.572 - Yes. And Ross. Yes. Yes. All right. The resolution is adopted as amended. So thank you, Zach, for all 01:24:22.572 --> 01:24:29.750 - the work putting that together. We don't have any resolutions for first reading. We've done the staff 01:24:29.750 --> 01:24:36.999 - liaison report already. Member announcements. Is there anyone who wants to make an announcement to the 01:24:36.999 --> 01:24:44.318 - group? I have one quick one. So the initial public meeting has already passed for this, but the city is 01:24:44.546 --> 01:24:54.156 - the City of Bloomington Utilities is working on a, it's called the Clear Creek Corridor Renewal Project. 01:24:54.156 --> 01:25:03.674 - So if you're familiar with the Campus River at Dunmeadow, it flows underground basically along Kirkwood 01:25:03.674 --> 01:25:08.158 - down to about First Street. From First Street to 01:25:08.418 --> 01:25:16.925 - Switchyard Park, it flows through a canal system that was built by the civilian consecration corps in 01:25:16.925 --> 01:25:25.431 - the 30s. That is in need of significant repair. So as part of that repair project, they're looking at 01:25:25.431 --> 01:25:34.355 - trying to alleviate some of the flooding issues in that area. So just keep your eyes open. They're looking 01:25:34.355 --> 01:25:36.190 - at a lot of different 01:25:36.834 --> 01:25:45.562 - ideas of what could be done through that area. I know right now Allen Street, the bridge over Clear 01:25:45.562 --> 01:25:54.639 - Creek on Allen Street was closed years ago with currently no plan and has become a pedestrian corridor. 01:25:54.639 --> 01:26:03.367 - That's one of three bridges that are within this area. And so they're looking at kind of all those. 01:26:03.367 --> 01:26:06.334 - I mean, the true goal would be to 01:26:06.562 --> 01:26:14.753 - widen and provide more flood storage, maybe green infrastructure. But they're in the initial planning 01:26:14.753 --> 01:26:22.864 - stages. I think Christopher Brook Engineering is doing a feasibility study. There's some interesting 01:26:22.864 --> 01:26:30.814 - land uses in that area. And so they're kind of just for it. Yeah. The transit facility there. Yes. 01:26:31.010 --> 01:26:39.445 - which is owned by IU but yeah so just I'm sure they'll be doing more outreach I think it's something 01:26:39.445 --> 01:26:47.879 - that you know definitely has to do with a lot of resiliency issues flooding through that Clear Creek 01:26:47.879 --> 01:26:56.398 - corridor is a known issue so just something to keep aware of and possibly something we could you know 01:26:56.398 --> 01:26:59.070 - make some recommendations on or 01:27:00.322 --> 01:27:12.273 - that's swept into the creek. Yeah. Well, thanks for that. Let me go to Alex online. Yes. I wanted to 01:27:12.273 --> 01:27:23.870 - make people aware that the Bipartisan American Affordability and Jobs Act, or ALTMA, is currently 01:27:30.274 --> 01:27:40.170 - The type of permitting reform bill, the type of permitting reform that this is, is essential to the 01:27:40.170 --> 01:27:44.030 - climate fight. It is being bipartisan. 01:28:42.658 --> 01:28:51.976 - I don't know how many of you have gone past the tailgating fields after an IU home football game. They 01:28:51.976 --> 01:29:01.656 - are filled to the brim with trash. There's potential avenues that the Commission itself could take through 01:29:01.656 --> 01:29:08.350 - Indiana environmental law. There's a creek that goes right through there. 01:29:08.642 --> 01:29:14.464 - an ephemeral stream actually that feeds right into the creek that goes into Cascades, and that creek 01:29:14.464 --> 01:29:20.286 - goes into Griffey Creek. Two of those are rated as polluted by the state. There's potential maybe an 01:29:20.286 --> 01:29:26.397 - avenue that I'm kind of noodling there about the fact that they just leave trash sitting there, including 01:29:26.397 --> 01:29:32.277 - there was an article about students finding human feces in the creek, and just horrible, which really 01:29:32.277 --> 01:29:35.966 - goes directly into E. coli contaminating the stream, et cetera. 01:29:36.098 --> 01:29:41.341 - There might be an avenue there of something to do about filing a complaint or something with the State 01:29:41.341 --> 01:29:46.585 - Department of Environmental Management with IU for mismanaging, not handling the trash very well. They 01:29:46.585 --> 01:29:51.777 - don't have trash cans out. They don't pick it up. It takes days for them to pick it up. I don't know. 01:29:51.777 --> 01:29:57.021 - I feel like there's something that can be done there. Anyway, so I'm working on that if somebody wants 01:29:57.021 --> 01:30:02.519 - to work on that with me. This is something that I know that our previous sustainability office commissioner 01:30:02.519 --> 01:30:03.486 - was interested in. 01:30:03.618 --> 01:30:09.629 - We had discussions about it at a meeting maybe like a year and a half ago. At one of our meetings, like 01:30:09.629 --> 01:30:15.524 - when the previous commissioner from IU Sustainability was talking about issues of trash collection at 01:30:15.524 --> 01:30:21.476 - Tailgater. The strategy seems to be just encourage everyone to throw all their trash on the ground and 01:30:21.476 --> 01:30:27.256 - leave it there for several days while people clean it up afterwards. It seems to be how they handle 01:30:27.256 --> 01:30:32.862 - it now, which is not managing it at all. It's disgusting, and other schools have managed to have 01:30:33.026 --> 01:30:40.754 - tailgating things without that. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Well, that brings us to the end of the meeting. 01:30:40.754 --> 01:30:44.798 - We are adjourned at seven thirty one. Thanks, everyone.