- All right, everyone, we'll go ahead and get started. We're at 6.01. You're never going to believe this,
- but we have a packed agenda tonight, so we better get it moving. So I call to order this meeting of
- the Bloomington Commission on Sustainability and Resilience at 6.01 PM. And we will go through the roll
- call. And just a reminder for commissioners that are dialing in online, whenever you respond to a roll
- call or a vote or anything like that, to make sure you unmute yourself and un-video mute yourself.
- Okay, Tara Dunn here. Here. Justin Vassel, I'm here. Matt Austin. Present. Present. Quentin Gilley.
- I'm here and I'll be there soon. Okay, perfect. Appreciate it. Okay, Christopher Miles. Here. Here.
- Zach Omerman. Here. Here. Dave Rallo. Here. Here, virtual.
- Alex York? Here. Here. Maria Arstad? Here. Here. Shenghuai Xu? Nope. Okay. Diana Ogrodowsky? I'm here.
- Here. Virtual. And Ross Carlson? Here. Here. Okay.
- Perfect. So that brings us to the approval of the agenda. So since we are anticipating a pretty substantial
- discussion on resolution 2026-04, I'm going to suggest that we rearrange a couple things on the agenda.
- For that, there's a good chance there's going to be some stuff that we maybe don't get to that's on
- the agenda. And if that happens, if we just don't have time for it, that'll automatically get pushed
- to the next meeting. So what I'm going to suggest, and I'll just
- lay this out quick and ask if anyone else has any other changes that they want to make and then maybe
- we can get it all done in one motion here. But what I'm going to suggest is that we move the staff liaison
- report just after the commissioner's report and before discussion is not the subject of resolution,
- just because that one has kind of gotten cut off at the end of our previous meetings.
- The second thing I want to suggest is that we move our resolutions for first reading to come after the
- resolutions for second reading. So we can sort of front load that longer discussion that we're expecting
- to have. And then anything that we don't get through after that, we can just readdress at the next meeting.
- So before I make that motion, is there anyone else who has something else they want to suggest as far
- as agenda changes go?
- Hearing none, I'll move that we move the staff liaison report to after the commissioner's reports and
- that we move resolutions for first reading after our resolutions for second reading. Seconded. There's
- a second. All right. Any further discussion? Okay. We'll move on to a vote then. We'll do a roll call
- vote since we have folks dialing in online. Tara? Yes. Yes. Justin, yes. Matt? Yes. Yes. Christopher?
- Yes. Yes. Zach? Yes. Yes.
- Yes. Yes. Quinton? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? Yes. Yes. Shenghuai is not here. Somebody in the
- waiting room, but not Shenghuai. Diana? Yes. Yes. And Ross? Yes. Yes. Okay. The agenda is approved as amended.
- So that brings us to the... So that brings us to the approval of the minutes for March 10th, 2026, which
- were circulated with the agenda last week. Are there any corrections to be made to those minutes? Okay.
- Is there a motion to approve? Motion to approve. And a second? Second. Perfect. All right. We'll go
- through the roll call. Tara? Yes. Yes. Justin? Yes. Matt? Yes. Yes. Christopher? Yes.
- Yes. Zach? Yes. Yes. Councilmember Rallo? Yes. Yes. Quentin? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? Yes. Yes.
- Shenghuai? Diana? Yes. Yes. And Ross? Yes. Yes. Okay. The minutes for March 10th, 2026 are approved.
- So that will bring us to the public comment portion of the meeting. So we've got about 10 minutes set
- aside for this. If folks want to make public comments about anything they desire, they are welcome to.
- We'll ask that, we'll probably try to go back and forth between here in the room and on Zoom. If we
- have folks on Zoom that want to make comment, we limit each comment up to three minutes.
- And we'll just ask that you come up to the table and sit in one of the guest spots here and just state
- your name for the record and then make your comment. So we'll start here in the room. Is there anyone
- who would like to make public comment tonight? Okay, I'm not seeing anyone right away in the room. Is
- there anyone on Zoom who would like to make public comment? I would like to make a public comment.
- OK, perfect. Yeah, we've got you loud and clear. So yeah, go ahead. And if you could state your name
- as you begin. Yes, my name is Ellie Spear. And my public is that I received as a member a community
- for a neighborhood grant last year. And I appreciated the opportunity for our neighborhood
- We've expanded it and opened it up to us people in the community, but we're all kings. But as a part
- of that grant, I received a 1099 NC, which is for non-employment compensation. And I was not paid as
- a C member by the DCOTS grant, only for supplies. So it's a little hiccup where I'm going to be charged
- And I'm working right now with, or I've made it into accounting to change this up. But I just wanted
- to acknowledge that this did happen to me. You did award grants to anyone else. That they may be in
- a situation, but have just turned their form that they're accountants or the tax advisor and not
- as a concern because I'm working to review the forms. So that's what I'm commenting on. Then I'm also,
- a second comment is the Any Kind of Neighborhood Grant. As I continue to commend this to community organizations,
- very difficult and challenged for them, and they're giving up. I say I will help them, I help them as
- much as possible, but they're really, people are giving up. And I know you want to support all different
- kinds of sustainability initiatives. So I'm just giving you my feedback from home. Thank you. Thank
- you very much. Appreciate that feedback.
- Is there anyone else in the room here who would like to give public comment? A point of clarification,
- if I can just. Sure. This is the only opportunity for someone to speak about the resolution, dash 04,
- that we're going to be discussing later. At that point, there will be no public comment. That's correct.
- OK. So if there is anyone who wants to make a comment, now would be the time. Yes. Thank you. That's
- a good clarification.
- Okay, I'm not seeing any more activity in the room. Is there anybody else on Zoom who would like to
- make public comment? Okay, I'm not seeing any activity there. Great, well thank you so much for that
- comment. That'll bring us on to commissioner reports. So we'll do the chair's report first.
- So a few things to go over here. Organizational updates on the report itself. You can see the org chart
- there. There's not a whole lot that's new. This meeting that wasn't there last meeting just except for
- the officer slate is of course new because we held officer elections at our last meeting. We currently
- have two vacancies and so we've got 12 of the 14 seats filled at the moment.
- the O'Neill school capstone project on sustainable energy utilities. We've got a final presentation
- on that coming up later this month on Tuesday, April 28th, from 530 to 630 in council chambers. So it's
- a Tuesday evening, but it's a slightly different time than usual, a slightly different week than usual
- and a fairly different location than usual. It's just right down the hall. So we're expecting to receive
- the presentation on the final report from that.
- and also an opportunity to maybe ask some questions as well. I sent out a survey to folks asking if
- they'd be available for that slot so that we could guarantee that we would have a quorum for that. I
- heard back from eight people and they all said that they could make it. So that means we should have
- a quorum, but of course I haven't heard from everybody. So if you're able to make it, please do plan
- for that. And I'll send out a public notice here this week
- for that special meeting. And if you know that you are not able to make it, please also let me know
- so I can keep track of that. Yeah. Send out that survey to anybody who didn't respond. Sure. In case
- people forgot whether they responded or not. Yeah, yes. Yes, I can absolutely do that. Yeah. Or I could
- just send out the notice and anyone who knows that they won't be able to make it can email me, you know.
- But yeah. Just asking for a friend. That's very kind, yeah. I'm sure it didn't get buried under a pile
- of emails. We don't get emails that much, right? Okay, good. But yeah, very much looking forward to
- hearing that report. I assume we're still on for that, Alex. Haven't heard anything to the contrary?
- I have not heard anything to the contrary. Okay, no news is good news. Perfect.
- I just wanted to mention for resolution 2026-02, which we passed at our last meeting, which was about
- the automated license plate reader technology. That resolution has been transmitted to all the offices
- that were listed in the resolution. Actually save one, which is the Monroe County Sheriff. I went to
- the website and tried to find the email address there and I could not find one. That seemed like an
- obvious one. So I'm still digging for that. If anybody has it, let me know.
- probably like sheriff at code up on road or something but okay like their party connection but I'm not
- sure it gets to okay perfect appreciate that and just for everyone's awareness as well just wanted to
- point out that you know City Council had a resolution 2026-04
- Um, you know, which came out a couple of weeks or a month or something before we passed ours. Um, and
- part of that resolution called on the, um, Bloomington chief of police and the office of the mayor to
- provide a written information packet. Um, by I think April 15th, it was, it was like a six week timeline.
- Um, so I think April 15th is that, that timeline, um, which goes over, you know, the contract terms
- and the cost data retention, these sorts of things. Um, and I think, uh, that there's going to be a
- public briefing about that.
- at the council's meeting at April 22nd, but I know the council hasn't put out their agenda for that
- yet, so don't quote me on that. But if that's something you're interested in following along with, just
- keep an eye out for that. I want to put out a call.
- related to a different flock resolution, not the one we passed last time, not about surveillance technology,
- but about chickens. So this was resolution 2025-01, which we passed last year. It was titled to adopt
- a scalable poultry flock size model. And it basically recommended to the city that folks who have larger
- properties be allowed to keep more chickens than they're currently able to. And so we passed
- that recommendation, but it hasn't,
- come up in an ordinance form or anything like that. So what we'd like to do try to make it as easy as
- possible for city council would be to try to draft that sort of ordinance language and then send that
- over to them. So I'm hoping I can find a volunteer here at this table that would be willing to dig into
- what that resolution says and into the municipal code and the UDO and try to just identify all the sections
- there that we would need to change the language to allow for this to happen.
- Is anyone here interested in doing something like that? And I wasn't looking at you because I was trying
- to make it happen, but okay, great. Appreciate that, yeah. Once we know exactly where those changes
- would have to be made, then we can work out what language we'd actually want to put into a draft form,
- and then maybe we can shop around some of the relevant departments and stuff just to get some more eyes
- on it before we send it, yeah. I cannot take on writing this, but having
- just applied for a chicken permit. I know I can send you all the relevant documentation and code. Excellent.
- Okay, perfect. Thank you. Okay, great. And then just a few internal updates, ongoing projects and stuff
- like this. So the 2026 strategic planning retreat and the 2025 angle report have sort of been on
- My list of things that I keep saying is almost done and ready to go. So apologies that it hasn't been
- done yet. But I will make these two a very high, high up priority to get out the door before our next
- meeting. We will do a strategic planning retreat. Still just have to work out the details.
- A couple other things that have sort of been on the back burner for a while now, some sort of commissioners
- handbook slash onboarding materials that folks can use to reference, you know, have everything kind
- of in one place, things like bylaws and best practices, things like this. And bylaws reform is another
- one that we've been talking about for a while and just haven't
- quite gotten to yet. And that's made even more relevant now that the municipal code numbers have changed
- and the parts of the code that refer to our commission are in a different place now. So the bylaws are
- extra, extra out of date and ready for a revamp. So stay tuned for more on that front. And we'll probably
- be asking for more volunteers to help write these sections of that sort of thing. Okay, so finally,
- getting down to sort of external updates. These are mostly just
- for folks awareness type stuff. There's been a lot of work on the Hopewell South PUD, specifically at
- the moment. This housing policy and zoning policy is something that we've talked about as a commission
- before, wanting to be more involved in, wanting to understand a little bit better. It was one of our
- priority areas back in 2025. And so I just wanted to point this out as something that's a very
- prescient and, you know, fast-moving topic, it's probably just good to pay attention to. So I know the
- next two council meetings, there's a special deliberative session, I think, tomorrow, and then,
- you know, the following week on April 22nd, I think this is going to be on the agenda for those council
- meetings, so it's probably worth following along with for folks who are interested.
- The mayor recently gave a State of the City address, so definitely encourage all commissioners to watch
- the recording of that if you weren't there or you haven't seen it yet, just to stay in the loop on that
- sort of thing. And then I was just reading about Bloomington Transit considering merging a couple of
- routes and expanding some of their microtransit capabilities, and this was in the context of year-over-year
- ridership declines that they've been seeing. So as we think about sustainability and transit being a
- part of that, I think this is also something that's worth
- at least flight following, right? And then a couple other just MISC reminders and notes that we've had
- up there, a couple items there that we've had for a few weeks, the compost bin and rain barrel sale,
- which I think is still going on. But last I checked at least, this is sort of the last call. So the
- order deadline is tomorrow and pick up dates the week following.
- Bloomington Energy Works website is linked up there. And then the new one this time is that early voting
- has begun for the May 5th election, primary election. So obviously, you know, democratic participation
- is good for social and civic sustainability. So if you haven't gotten out to vote yet, please make a
- plan to do so. And also note that there is a new location for early voting, which is right down the
- hallway here in the county side of this building.
- If you haven't seen all the signs already, you probably will, walking out of here tonight.
- And then as always, I just link various resources that you can follow. So that's it for, oh, that's
- not it for the chair's report. I was also going to mention Earth Day, which is happening at Switchyard
- Park April 18th, I believe. Starting at, I forget exactly what time, but. 12.30 to four is the advertising time.
- at noon to 3.30. Noon to 3.30, okay. Yeah, perfect, perfect. So we'll hear that a couple times, thankfully.
- Yes, and so we are participating. Tara's been helping get some of the materials together, and Jolie
- as well. Jolie has done everything. I really appreciate Jolie's help. She moved mountains to get us
- some necessary supplies and things. I just need to make sure that there's folks that will be there.
- I'll be there in the morning.
- For the beginning, I just can't stay the whole day. So I just need to volunteer to take the tablecloth
- and any remaining things. Okay, great. Thank you Okay, thank you. Yeah, Julie like she saved us. Thank
- you because I did a bad job Yeah, I know at some of the other meetings Dan some other folks said they
- could be there I just want to make sure there's somebody who can be there at the end of the day so that
- our stuff doesn't get
- swept into our branding data block doesn't get trashed. Yeah, exactly. OK, so perfect. So that's going
- to be Zach. I got volunteer to be there. OK, perfect. So there'll be someone to take it away.
- And I know, yeah, Diana had mentioned also helping out. But it sounds like we've got at least the beginning
- and the end covered. So it should be good on that front. Perfect. Well, thank you very much. And yeah,
- Quentin. I just had just a quick miscellaneous update.
- I used to have an annual sustainability symposium next Wednesday, three to five. I want to personally
- invite all the commissioners and everybody involved in making this group happen. So feel free to jump
- on the website, sustain.iu.edu. There's still some spots left. Perfect. Having gone for six or seven
- years besides COVID is well worth going. The students are doing great work. So I won't be there because
- I'll be in Costa Rica.
- Nice. That's what we'll hear about that later. Yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you very much. Yeah. And thank
- you guys. Thank you, Jolie, for all the help getting this together. It's good to have a presence there
- for the second year in a row. Get the word out. OK. Any questions on the chair's report before we move on?
- then I'll pass it over to you Matt for Waste Management Working Group updates. So a couple quick updates.
- Wanted to let everyone know the Waste Reduction District has a really simple and easily accessible grant
- that closes May 15th for sustainability and waste reduction. They have $17,000 left. There was already
- one that was approved for $3,000 and we got it reopened. So once again, it's very simple, very forgiving,
- very easy. So please look into that.
- And then I wanted to let everybody know about a local company that is 3D printing, working on 3D printing
- homes called TerranRobotics.ai. Ryan Zaricki, who is the former owner of Wholesun Solar, is working
- in that. It is a startup. They have 20 employees. And they are hoping to expand sometime soon. Turns
- out that they're getting advice and whatnot from a company named Icon down in
- Austin, Texas, who turns out the CEO I worked with when I lived down there. So a local company and they
- remember the Cobb Bench project. It works in Cobb and stuff like that. So they might be proposing a
- neighborhood grant to try and reopen that as well. But I thought it was really, really interesting that
- we have a local startup that is doing 3D printing within that Cobb world. And then this is my last meeting.
- City Council has not gotten back to
- Either fill my seat or fill it with me, so I'll be sitting in the cheap seats next month. That is a
- Monroe County grant. Thank you for that clarification. Is the grant for residents or for organizations?
- All of the above. Yeah. I think it's a max of $5,000, but it's a very simple form. And the date is May
- 15 to get it in by.
- you'll find on the Waste Reduction District's website. And that's it for me. Perfect. Any other questions
- for Matt? OK. And I'll just say, if this is your last meeting in the Chief Seats, as you said,
- next month, just wanted to say thank you for all the work that you've done for the commission over the
- years. When I first got here, and I can't remember exactly when that was,
- a few years ago. Looking around the room, there's three people in here, myself included, who
- were commissioners at that time. Matt was one of them, and Sean was one of them as well. So, you've
- been doing this for a while, and this is something that you've been very passionate about for a while.
- I appreciate you bringing that to us. All right. That brings us to our Council ex officio report. Council
- Member Rallo, over to you.
- Yes, thanks, Justin. I just wanted to follow up on what you'd already announced, which is our deliberation
- session tomorrow evening, which is April 15th from 630 to 930. Deliberation sessions function to allow
- us to do a deep dive on topics. And the topic tomorrow is, as Justin mentioned, is the continuation
- of the council's discussion on the Hopewell PUD.
- which has been presented by the administration, but the petitioner is the RDC, the Redevelopment Commission.
- And this will be a joint session with the RDC to discuss, there'll be a presentation from the, I understand,
- from the consultant, Glenlock Lab, and then we'll have further discussion on the remaining reasonable
- conditions that are brought forward by my colleagues. I don't have any,
- of them there are eight remaining and you can find out more about this at our website loomington.in.gov
- slash council and go to the sidebar and you'll see the meeting announcement you can click on that and
- you can download the packet the packet has a number of slides in it and so it's very descriptive and
- you can find out the details there of what we'll be discussing and you're of course welcome
- mention one other thing. Three years ago, I brought a resolution to the Council on the existential threat
- of artificial general intelligence. And it's still a passion of mine to try to elevate the salience
- of that topic to the public. And I gave a talk on it last
- And I'm happy to do a abbreviated presentation, shortened one, for because if you're interested. At
- some point. I would love that for something. That would be very interesting. That's all I got, Justin.
- If there are any questions, anybody have any questions, let me know. I should say the reasonable conditions,
- they focus on the streetscape.
- And to accommodate a tree plot, narrowing the lanes, a wider sidewalk on Roger Street, and then a discussion
- on increasing, our proposition is to increase the affordability of the units there. I did have a question.
- Um, has the council hired a lawyer for the reasonable conditions of dispute with the administration?
- Yeah, we did. I mean, that unfortunate was kind of a hang up. Um, and we did, we did hire an attorney
- and outside firm that, um, that represented us. We had a discussion, um, a couple of weeks ago on that.
- Uh, they affirmed that we had, um, the right to offer reasonable conditions. Of course, the administration
- or the agency.
- right to turn them down and and so that's what we do we do have that ability as we have for a long time
- and that was important to me because you know this process I've been through a lot of PVs and they've
- been improved by that process take for instance Hillside and Henderson which is a really nice neighborhood
- activity center there are
- things that occurred there that happened that were required by council. And we negotiate with the developer
- on that. So it's something that we are allowed to do and that has been effective. And so I'm happy that
- the attorney, you know, affirmed that. And by the way, Justin, you know, I'm still very much and several
- of my colleagues are aware of the, you know, readdressing the chicken ordinance.
- It's just that we're we don't have an attorney right now. We're going to hire one in interim. There's
- an advertisement out for our counsel attorney, but without one, we've been really, you know, had to
- scale back the amount of legislation that we've been bringing forward. So it's it's not that that topic
- isn't important to us, but I think we look forward to working with a member of the commission on that
- once we get a
- Yeah, absolutely. And in the meantime, we can try to get into as good a shape as we possibly can so
- that once we're at that point, then we're kind of ready to roll with it. Yeah. Great. That's appreciated.
- Any further questions for Councilmember Rall? All right. Hearing none, that will now bring us to the
- staff liaison's report. Shawn? Thank you. So yeah, Earth Day is this Saturday.
- From Noon to 330 at Switchyard Park, we're going to have over 30 vendors. We're going to have four food
- trucks. There's going to be a sand mandala that's part of trying to ease climate anxiety. That's with
- Artists for Climate Awareness, so I think that'll be really cool. We're going to be giving away free
- trees. There's going to be face painters. So there's going to be something there for everybody. So I'd
- love to see everybody there. Canopy Bloomington.
- planted nearly 20 trees in the Walnut Woods neighborhood and surrounding areas as part of ESD's cool
- corridor grant that we provided to them. So really excited to see that in place. And if you go along
- Miller Drive, you can see that as a true cool corridor where we planted trees along the sidewalk and
- ESD installed a bus stop shelter on Miller Drive as well. So that helps to reduce the impact of extreme
- heat and get people shade during the hot summer months.
- So that's a great program. We love to see it implemented, and we hope to continue. Bloomington Energy
- Works, that program is coming to a close. We will be providing, we will be submitting tomorrow to the
- Coalition for Green Capital our clean energy public-private partnership plan. We gathered projects worth
- an estimated total of $60 million. These projects were from actual solar designs completed by Donovan
- Energy, and also estimated solar projects that we gathered.
- So the entire purpose of this program is to potentially bring low-cost finance capital to Monroe County
- for project implementation. So keep your fingers crossed. Donovan Energy is still completing some energy
- audits for some buildings. We had some applications that were submitted at the final hour. So those
- will be completed by the end of this month, and we'll be updating the P3 plan and submitting again at
- the end of this month.
- Some of those projects are providing a level two ashray energy audit to the Monroe County School Corporation
- for Bloomington High School South. That is a significant building and they are extremely thankful for
- that energy audit. So I'm really happy with the success of that program. Electrify Indiana, they have
- been amazing, an amazing partner to work with. They've worked really hard. They have knocked on over,
- I believe now it's 5,000 doors.
- We're at just shy of $6,500. $6,500. Okay. Wonderful. And lots of presentations, lots of engagement.
- So really getting the word out there about the benefits of energy efficiency and renewable energy. So
- that's all I have. I have plenty more, but that's enough. That's fantastic. I would love some details
- on the final POW results. I mean, maybe just like,
- That's going to be a newsletter update that comes through that project. But maybe next month after reports
- are submitted and things as part of this. You said $61 million? I'm sorry. Yeah, over $60 million with
- the project. I just have a quick question, too. The climate change inventory, I'm just wondering, are
- we still waiting on Duke? We're not waiting on Duke any longer. But we had to request climate now.
- to make their report accessible. So that's a heavy lift. So we're working on that. And I have provided
- initial feedback from a draft that he sent to me, but we're not going to publish until it's accessible.
- And I've asked Wes if he could give a presentation. We will be giving a presentation to city council.
- Excellent. Any other questions for Sean?
- hearing none. We don't have any discussions that are not the subject of the resolution tonight. So that
- brings us on the amended agenda to resolutions for second reading. We'll start with resolution 2026-04
- against the use of glyphosate in Bloomington's public spaces and environmental practices. So as you
- all know, the public has taken a significant interest in this topic, and that is great to see. I want
- to thank everyone who's reached out to share their thoughts with us.
- You know, we are an advisory body. Part of our mission is to make informed recommendations to council,
- to the mayor, to other entities in the city. And so as a commission, we really do rely on the Bloomington
- community to help guide our thinking about sustainability issues and to help educate us on issues where
- we don't have widespread in-house expertise so that we can make those recommendations from an informed
- position. So again, just want to thank everyone who's reached out about this.
- I want to say a few words about the format of this before we get moving with it. We're going to do things
- a little bit differently than we have for most other resolutions in the past. So we'll be joined by
- two subject matter experts today. In a moment, I'll ask them to come to the table to participate in
- a Q&A discussion with commissioners. So after brief introductions, I'll open up the floor for the commission to ask
- who asks questions, questions that are pertinent to the topic at hand, specifically glyphosate use within
- the city of Bloomington. And whatever questions will help you make an informed decision on the resolution
- here. So as always, we want to be sort of cognizant of time. So we should try to go about it in a fairly
- orderly way. So I'll ask commissioners to just indicate to me that you'd like to ask a question, and
- then I'll try to keep a tally of in what order we're going.
- and yes okay well we don't have a public comment section for the resolution we're already past the public
- comment phase but yeah thank you for mentioning that
- Yeah, so I would just ask that try to focus on one question at a time during that section, and we'll
- try to just take turns so everyone gets the opportunity to ask if they have a question that they want
- to ask. So I will point out from a procedural standpoint here that we haven't actually moved the resolution
- yet, which means we haven't started deliberation on it. So, you know, the Q&A period is an opportunity
- just to ask questions, but not a space for actually discussing
- thoughts on the topic or the merits of the resolution, that sort of thing. Once we're done with the
- Q&A, we'll actually move and ask for a second, and then we'll enter the deliberation phase we can discuss.
- Let's see. Okay, so before we get started on that, are there any questions from the commissioners about
- sort of how the process will play out here? Okay.
- Perfect. Then I'd like to invite up our two subject matter experts, if they're with us in the gallery,
- to come on up. Justin, I'm sorry. Can I just briefly say, I just want to disclose for the record that
- my husband works for Parks and Recreation and he applies glyphosate. That's part of his job. I don't
- see any financial benefit or negative that I would be getting out of this resolution, so I wasn't planning
- on recusing myself. If anyone disagrees or thinks I should, I will recuse myself. So just say so.
- And I will do so. But otherwise, just want to just close that for the record. Perfect. All right. Thank
- you very much. Great. So first, let me welcome you here. And thank you for taking the time out of your
- evening to be with us. I know there's probably a million other ways you could be spending your time
- right now. But we really appreciate having you here to answer some of our questions. So to start, could
- you please introduce yourself by stating your name for the record and giving us just a brief description
- of your background and expertise as it relates to the use of glyphosate?
- glyphosate, and we'll start here on my right. Hi. Thank you, Justin. Of course. My name is Ellen Jaycart.
- I am president of MCIRS, the Monroe County Identify and Reduce Invasive Species Group, started 17 years
- ago. My career before I retired, I was the first botanist for the Hoosier National Forest. I then spent
- most of the rest of my career working for the nature conservancy.
- directing the management of all the nature preserves in Indiana. And about half of that's prescribed
- fire. And the other half is invasive species control. So I developed the policies, strategies, and tactics
- for dealing with invasive species control on a large scale. And increasingly over the years, I worked
- with other organizations and agencies to help them with their policies, strategies, and tactics. And
- 10 years ago, delightfully, I got to retire.
- So at that point, I put more energy into MC Iris. And one of the things I think that really developed
- and evolved since then was our relationship with City of Bloomington Parks and Recreation.
- And that has been, I think, one of the strongest foundations of our group. And how delightful it was
- for me to find an agency that
- dealt with herbicides in such a thoughtful manner, committed to integrative pest management, and working
- with them has been absolutely wonderful and co-leading volunteer days and teaching people about invasive
- ID and control. And so that's why I was so troubled by the content of the resolution and wanted to speak
- up and just be able to help answer any questions you might have on
- why we believe that glyphosate is a really important tool in the toolbox, and it would be devastating
- to lose it. Well, thank you very much, and welcome, and Mary will go to you next. Hi, everybody. I'm
- Mary Wells. I am the Natural Resources Manager with the Wilmington Park for Recreation. Ironically,
- today is my one-year anniversary job. Congratulations to everybody here.
- Prior to being at parts, I was in the nonprofit sector. I was worked at as an invasive species specialist
- with State of Indiana Cooperative Invasive Management, helping to establish groups like MCR, which are
- known as Cooperative Invasive Species Management Areas throughout Indiana, so in my region of service.
- I also worked as a pollinator for
- Pollinator Habitat Specialist for Pollinator Partnership, which is a semi-multinational organization
- based in San Francisco. So working with landowners in that capacity to salvage habitat, a lot of it
- involving the use of herbicides like glyphosate. And also an avid member of NCIRUS involved locally
- throughout the years. I'm just very thankful to have Ellen
- the leader of that organization. And then before that, I also worked as office manager and involved
- in the native plant nursery over at Ecologic. I also worked for a couple years as the education specialist
- or director at Sycamore Land Trust. So involving volunteers in invasive species control and other land
- stewardship, often using glyphosate while we're working on projects. So yeah, just a passion for taking care of
- our natural areas get a good steward of the land, so to speak. Perfect. Well, thank you. And thank you
- both, again, for being here. So I will turn it over to commissioners now for questions. Who wants to
- go first? Alex? I think mainly for Mary. If this is way too much or impossible, I understand. But can
- you give fairly comprehensive examples
- where the city, what types of situations the city uses climate safety in? Yeah, for first and foremost,
- I can only speak for parks, recreation, and specifically on behalf of the operations division, which
- my natural resources forces area is within. And I will speak only to natural resource management as
- there may be other uses of climate safety.
- even with an operations division. And before I continue, I also want to acknowledge that our integrated
- pest management coordinator, Joanna Sparks, who's our marine space manager, is also present in the room.
- So we are using glyphosate specifically for non-selective control. It's a broad spectrum or reside that's
- systemic, which is one of the reasons why it's such an important tool.
- It doesn't just top kill, it gets down into the roots and then kind of ends its action as it binds the
- soil particles and starts going through its half-life. So we are using it, a lot of our use, over half
- of our use going back just the last few years is for cut stump applications on woody vegetation. So
- it is considered a low volume, high concentration method
- that is very targeted. And it's, you know, the woody vegetation is cut and immediately treated with
- usually a 50% solution depending on the product. But mostly, I think, historically, our solutions have
- been 50%, like to say, 50% water, using dye as an indicator, and then also putting up signage when it's
- applied and also reporting that on our pesticide notice
- interface online. Alternatively, we're also using it for spot foliar treatments. One of our more common
- invasives are honeysuckles. So honeysuckle vines, honeysuckle shrubs, they don't respond well to some
- of our broadleaf specific herbicides. So I'd like to say it tends to be the best tool for that. So without
- that, we've challenged in our control of bush honeysuckle, which is probably one of our largest
- invasive species problems in our natural areas here in Monroe County. So the foliar applications are
- considered a high volume, low concentration. We're airing on the side of the lower concentration based
- on the label. We're using surfactant and dye. Surfactant is a penetrant in order to penetrate the leaf
- cuticle. And also, again, putting up our signage and posting it to our online pesticide reporting tool.
- that answer your question, did you have additional information? We may also use glyphosate when we're
- doing site prep for restoration areas, especially for restoring to seed. If we're doing cover crop seed
- down, even for a seed planting or a nurse crop for a tree planting, all of those require seed to soil
- contact. When you're restoring a quarter of an acre to five acres,
- Glyphosate is a useful tool depending on what's the existing vegetation on site. I have a question.
- So what would change in your day to day for either of you? If we pass something along the lines of a
- ban, if the city passed a ban on glyphosate, but there was an exception for invasive aggressive non-native
- plants, would that change anything about your day to day?
- From my area, if that exception was in place, as long as it was not the factor for site prep, I don't
- anticipate it. But I do anticipate that other challenges from a monetary standpoint, a safety standpoint,
- from a natural resources standpoint, even in urban settings or green space areas, that there would be
- negative impacts to restrict the use of glyphosate for other areas, but that's, I should say that I'm
- speaking on outside of the area that I should be directly commenting on. But I guess I don't understand
- what would change if you were allowed to use it for invasive plants, what would change specifically?
- I'm just curious, I don't know. Nothing for my area. Okay. Yeah. All right, thank you. I'll say because
- I've been in
- Preparing for this, I talked with a professor in Florida who's dealt with a lot of glyphosate issues
- there. As you know, some communities in Florida have attempted to ban glyphosate. And one of the things
- that they saw was a great increase in lawsuits, largely because glyphosate was used to keep sidewalk
- cracks clean. They had no other way to do that effectively. And there were a lot of slip and fall lawsuits.
- And that changed how they dealt with it.
- Okay, thank you. Does Lamington apply, I'd like to say, for grass? I'm not the best person to be talking
- to you. And if we were to apply it on grass, I'd like to say it would kill the grass. So it's a non-selective
- herbicide, so in that capacity, no, but for maintenance of sports fields, I can't think of that. Christopher?
- I just had a couple of questions of clarification.
- regarding your previous answer. So you described foliar use. Can you define that for the record? Yep.
- So foliar spray is typically going to be a backpack applied by a single applicator with a wand spray
- tip where they can adjust the spray nozzle to increase droplet size or reduce drift. Occasionally, for
- those areas where we're doing site prep, there's two other broadcast methods.
- that might be used on a larger spray tank. So running just a broadcast spray from a tank sprayer. Like
- a truck or a compressor. Or behind an ATV or some sort of vehicle. And very rarely, I don't even know
- if I have an example of this, because more unlikely we'd use a selective for tank spraying if we had a lot of
- one thing and nothing else that was invasive. So thank you. You said 50% roughly application is,
- so to speak, painted onto stems. Over 50%. Over 50%. So over half of the use of WebSA is direct application
- to the stems of things like honeysuckle using a paintbrush or a similar applicator where it's not being
- aerosolized. But roughly 50% to 60% is these other varieties of
- broadcast application, would that include what you described as the sort of, you didn't use this word,
- but correct me if I'm mistaken, like a suppressant land prep application, like you said, when you're
- clearing out areas for restoration, which means basically bringing them back to zero in terms of flora
- and fauna that are there, preemptive wheeling it down to kill seeds that might be invasives, planting
- to grow up a more native area, correct?
- Is that also an aerosolized? Is that sort of like an agricultural type application where you're broadcast
- spraying across a plot of land? So for site prep, that broadcast application is very common. Occasionally,
- we're able to be more targeted if there's some existing vegetation that's beneficial. And I would say
- the term aerosolized may not be appropriate because there aren't pesticide applications that are truly
- aerosolized from a plane, for example.
- droplet-based application where managing droplet size is going to reduce drift. And also, I've heard
- a lot of information in my statement where the steps we take to reduce drift off-target damage and negative
- impacts to natural resources. I should also say that some of that foliar application is spot application.
- And some of it is in response to, is a follow-up to cut stump treatment.
- so that we're reducing target size. So a lot of times we're using mechanical or manual means to reduce
- target size, allow vegetation to re-sprout, and then we have a smaller target, we're using a lot less
- herbicide and a foliar mechanism than we would if we just came in and sprayed 10 foot tall bush honeysuckle
- in a forested understory. So we don't want that because it would have much more off-target damage than
- we would in this target application we're doing.
- these cut treatments and allowing to resprout before it gets to a point where it's unsafe for the applicator
- and also unsafe for the environment and the areas that we're applying. Thank you. I have other questions,
- but I can wait. I think Maria and then Tarpe. Mary, I have a couple of questions about the city's integrated
- pest management plan.
- It states in the plan, the integrated pest management plan will be reviewed on an annual basis by the
- IPM working group. Are you able to confirm that there has been an annual review process? I will say
- that I've only been here for one year. But since I've been here, we've been reviewing in advance of
- an update. So hopefully, we anticipate that update will happen sometime in 2026. Are you able to say
- whether that update includes any update
- recommendations or allowances for the use of glyphosate? I'm not able to say that at this point. Yeah,
- I'm sorry about that. I'm also curious if you're able to comment on have you received any input from
- the public at parks board meetings or environmental resources advisory council meetings? Just curious
- about like
- If there's been input, what the level has been in the past year? In the past year, I will say no. That
- does not mean that that has not happened or that other areas within the operations division or within
- parks as a whole have not happened historically. OK. And then just one more. Sorry. Have there been
- any requests from the public for records of glyphosate?
- applications? I have not gotten any public record requests for Plymouth State applications. That does
- not mean it has not happened to date. And I should say at the Environmental Resources Advisory Committee
- meeting, what this resolution was discussed, and some members were considering a draft response. And
- then one member did say they would like to understand better the city's use or the park's use of Plymouth
- State. So that may be on an agenda item during a future meeting.
- OK, thank you so much. All right, we've got Tara next. Yeah, I have two, I think, simple questions.
- When you do the foliar application, is there also dye included in that to the visual indication of it
- in addition to the signage? Yes. For natural resource pesticide applications or herbicide applications,
- we are using Indic spray pattern indicator dye when we're spraying as well as
- in the cuts from the treatment application. And is that also something that other, like, that MCIRIS,
- does MCIRIS also use dye and signage when they apply it in their work? We use dye, just about every
- case that I can ever think of. We don't have any land. We work on other people's land. So we abide by
- their rules and their policies. And we work with county parks.
- whole lot of different places. And there are some who do require the signage and then that happens.
- And my other question is, is there currently a mechanism for other than like a public records request
- for communicating to the public the volume of any pesticide that's applied within your department or
- more broadly within the city by the city parks department?
- are not indicating the volume in the current application reporting. We're including the product, the
- active ingredient, and various other information, whether it's aquatic label or not. But currently,
- the volume is not in the public portal that we've created. All right, Matt, over to you.
- First of all, thank you for all the work that you put into this to make it transparent to the public
- as to how this is used in our community. And I apologize for any stress that this might have caused
- you. So a couple of questions. One, I brought this up because of President Trump's executive order about
- protecting production of and providing meat for glyphosate. What is your opinion on that? Is that something
- you support, something that you don't support?
- I don't think I'm able to comment on that at this time based on my representation. OK. I'd rather let
- the market decide that that's just me. I mean, I see that our current agricultural system is incredibly
- dependent upon like the state. That said, chemical companies are now developing other chemicals for
- GMO crops like dicamba. Dicamba is so much worse.
- and the incredible damage that we've seen, because that camber drifts. Everybody knows it drifts. They
- went into it saying, well, it's a new non-drift formulation, and it requires a special nozzle on farmer's
- equipment. Farmers didn't buy the nozzle. There are lawsuits all over the country because of that. Glyphosate
- doesn't drift as much as just about any other chemical.
- And while I don't see needing the government to step in and protect glyphosate, I am also well aware
- that if it went away because of continued lawsuits, we would be stuck with much worse chemicals. And
- so it's kind of a conundrum. So that's sort of a mixed up response, but that's what's in my head. And
- then the other question was, there was the Williams Crows and Monroe glyphosate safety review. That
- was ghost written.
- now been proven as ghost written by Monsanto employees. OK, so how can you trust the science that is
- coming out from these companies? And when there's science that opposes it, a lot of times those scientists
- disappear or bad things happen. So I just, because in this letter you say that glyphosate is a herbicide
- which does not affect the environment.
- As much as something else goes, it quickly breaks down more quickly. Maybe it does break down more quickly,
- but the fact of the matter is there's signs that shows that it doesn't, and that it is destroying the
- microorganisms in the soil. And you look at all of our farmland, which is obviously not what we're discussing
- here, but we don't have soil. Soil is alive. We've got dirt, which is just a placeholder.
- and then fertilizer runoff and all this other stuff because you've dealt with glyphosate on a much larger
- scale than most folks. And so I also brought this up because at the Blue Team Community Orchard, I saw
- a sign and I loved that I saw the sign. They sprayed right on the edge of the road. And I'm thinking,
- was that really necessary? Could something else have been done, then spray that right next to the next
- to the community orchard. So with all that being said, what is your opinion of the science that
- has been said to be true, but has been now proven to be ghostwritten by the company that sells the product.
- I'll say that is really disturbing. That is one study. And given the conflict of interest that was present
- with the authors, I think that you basically have to say we can't argue that study. There are hundreds,
- if not thousands, of other studies. There are incredible studies that have been done. Glyphosate is
- by far the most studied herbicide in the world.
- compared to any other out there, Triclopyr, Mesopyr, Pliclorum, glyphosate is the one they focus on
- because it has been such a workhorse of an herbicide, and it's so greatly used. I think you have to
- carefully evaluate the author's potential for conflict of interest. But from what I have seen from all
- of the work that's been done,
- Thus far, there have been no good studies that have shown significant harm to humans and applicators
- and used according to label directions compared to all the other possible herbicides out there. It's
- the safest we've got. OK. So I guess my concern is that it's the default.
- might get used too much when there's other options. So I guess what's that trigger where it says that
- we're going to use glyphosate because it's our default versus saying we should use something else. So
- I'm just concerned about an overuse because it is the easiest thing. It's what you have on the shelf.
- Yeah. Yeah. No, I see that. I think that there are now, at this point, decades of experience by land
- managers saying,
- what works on this invasive species. And again, we're just talking about natural areas management and
- invasive species control, and knowing which chemicals do work and which don't. And there are some species
- that glyphosate may not be the most effective, and you end up saying, nope, we're going to have to use
- amazapyr. But every time we do that, every time we say, no, put the glyphosate on the shelf and we're
- going to use amazapyr,
- We take a big breath because they are more dangerous to the applicator. They will move more in the soil.
- And they will have longer residence time in the soil. And we don't like that. That's just a much heavier
- hit on the environment and potentially the applicator. And so that's why it tends to be the front line,
- because we believe it's the most safest and most effective. And when we have to go to other chemicals,
- then it's time where
- you have to really read that warning label because it gets much more dangerous. Thank you. All right.
- Is there anyone who hasn't asked a question? Is that OK? Yeah. Perfect. OK. Thank you. And so I appreciate
- the last comments you had about that. There's a lot of depth that you guys have looked at in the research
- about glyphosate. I'm sort of very amateur at understanding these things.
- I'll ask amateur questions though, just in case you can probably rebut this pretty quickly. But I'm
- thinking about, assuming what you're saying is correct. I'm also looking at what a lot of people use
- these sort of chemicals do is they're not really focused as much on the soil, sort of microbiology.
- It really doesn't seem to be in my experience. And I'm looking at, okay, you have,
- soil microbiology, if a chemical like this could potentially target very specific microbes, but not
- target others, right? Same thing, they were talking about one of the potential impacts on using glyphosate
- for bees, not because it hurts the bees directly, because microbiology of their stomach and other things.
- And I'm just wondering,
- if it's safe and effective, is there any possibility out there that we're, through the use of this chemical,
- we're creating the type of environment that is perfect for an invasive because it's set up for an imbalance
- in the ecosystem. Can I take that? So we had a weed wrangle that last Saturday
- Saturday before at Lower Cascades. It's one of our favorite places. And so every month for, I don't
- know how many years it's been now, how many years has it been? Seven? We're there every month. And so
- we've gotten to see the changes over time. And what I was boggled by was we're at peak flower right
- now. As a botanist, this is the best time of year for me. And if you stand at the Sycamore Shelter and
- you look across the road
- you will see a very, very steep slope, and it is covered 100% with Asian bush honeysuckle. And under
- that honeysuckle is just bare and eroding. There's nothing, because it's so shady. Nothing is going
- to grow under there. On the other side of the shelter, it is this slope that is alive. The bush honeysuckle
- has been cut and painted by volunteers. It's clear of the shrubs.
- And the Cascades has just one of the best wildflower displays we've got in Bloomington. And so two weeks
- ago, it was just buzzing with pollinators. This whole slope is gorgeous, and I'm taking pictures. And
- the bottom line is that slope that is covered with Asian bichonisuckle was completely cleared by volunteers
- six years ago during COVID. They climbed up that slope.
- like mountain goats. But they didn't use glyphosate. And every one of those shrubs is now approaching
- 10 feet tall. And we've got nothing. The site is essentially dead and eroding. Where we use glyphosate
- on the stumps, it's alive. The bees are buzzing. The butterflies and tiger swallowtails were out. I
- feel confident from what I've seen with the treatments we've done that we have made the environment
- healthier. We've made it more biodiverse.
- better. And I look for, you know, whatever research comes out and see what we can learn from it. But
- from what I've seen with my own eyes, we've improved the environment with the use of glyphosate.
- Thank you. I would add to that, that there's, you know, we're honeysuckle suppressing native biota or
- flora, and it also has these
- Allelopathic, where they prevent native plants from growing. Other invasives also change the soil, maybe
- even more so than light as they would. So we have autumn olive, which is a nitrogen fixer. It is a gateway
- for other invasives. So if we leave autumn olive, we've completely displaced the plant community. There's
- that to consider as well. So I had Ross next. Is this like a direct follow-up? This is actually just
- a correct response to the question here. It's quite rare, really. To answer your direct question,
- Yes, any kind of input, particularly on agricultural scales, does produce an arms race with invasive
- weed species, however you want to describe it. That is strictly correct and universally observable.
- The problem that I think we're facing here is a question of difference in terms of arena of application
- and effect. So if we're talking about targeted painting on a hillside of honeysuckle roots,
- it's different than the kind of volumes of life-saving sprayed in agricultural fields around the globe
- as the number one agent. So it does do that, but I think what we're talking about at this scale is these
- are kind of apples and oranges, and that's sort of at the root of some thorny questions here, I think.
- I appreciate that. That's one of the takeaways I got. In certain cases, applications, you actually get
- more diversity and a better health of the environment
- if it's applied in a specific way. All right, let's go to Ross. Okay. First of all, I just want to thank
- you both for coming today. I think you guys have done great work. I have a question for Mary. So you
- were talking about like over half of the applications have been for cut stump, but that is for the natural
- resources department, right? So, or the parks department as a whole? Within the operations division.
- Okay. So we're talking everything from like,
- Griffey, switchyard, native plantings, also like sports fields. Operations division does not cover sports
- management. That's what I was wondering because I feel like from what I understand this is a very useful
- tool for the native habitat restoration and what I haven't really learned much through this discussion
- is how much this is being used on
- the Cascades Golf Course, Twin Lakes, stuff like that. And that's where my concern really with this
- would lie, is are we using this a lot for fence row management and stuff like that, rather than are
- we using it for native species or habitat restoration, where I think it is an invaluable tool. So I
- thank you for coming. I wish you could speak more about that. That's, I guess, my question that has
- been left unanswered is,
- how much, and comparative to how much you guys are using, what they're using and where it's going to
- and for what, so. Perfect, okay, we've got Councilor Barallo on Zoom with his hand up. Go ahead, Councilor
- Barallo. Thank you. This has been a very good discussion. I think there's a lot of points of agreement
- regarding the question about where it's used.
- And there were 16 gallons of glyphosate that were used by the city of Bloomington. And seven of those
- were used for natural resources. So presumably then to treat non-native invasive plants. So the other
- nine gallons went to uses such as fence rows and
- around ball fields and I think he used the Cascades Gau of course and so forth. But I think you know
- being an organic farmer for a while the farms around me were spraying like say I think on the order
- of a quarter to a half a gallon per acre so the farm across the street for instance
- as the entire city of Bloomington on its fields. So just as a matter of perspective, I think that maybe
- this goes into deliberation. So maybe I should hold back, Justin. But maybe we could, if the sponsor
- of this resolution were interested, Matt, we might consider or you might consider amending it.
- might consider amending it to say that the Commission supports the minimal use of glyphosate and then
- you know maybe parenthetically for purposes of invasive and non-native species control because that
- would you know that would allow the activities say a griffey or
- and which is the best choice, I think, in my mind. But it sends an instruction that it needs to be kept
- at a minimum. I'm just putting that out there. And that's all I've got to say right now. Thank you.
- Thank you. I've got one quick question, and then we can do round two. My question is answered. OK, perfect.
- So I'll go, and then Alex. OK.
- So question for both of you, maybe Allen first, if you could just speak a little bit about sort of the
- scope of the invasive species problem in Bloomington. How severe is it? How much work has to be done
- or sort of to battle it? Are you gaining ground or is it kind of just holding the line for now? And
- then to Mary, if glyphosate were to be taken off the table, what would that look like operationally
- for parks and recreation? What would that do in terms of cost, labor, things like fuel use, and stuff
- like that if you had to rely on other options? Thanks for the questions. And just in general, these
- have been awesome questions. The situation in Bloomington is pretty comparable to other urban areas
- in Indiana, because it tends to be urban areas that have most of the invasive species problem.
- for the not surprising reason that that's where the landscaping is. And better than 90% of our invasive
- species are landscaping species. And we differ on some. We have the worst lesser salindine problem in
- the state, as far as I can tell. Indianapolis is not great, but boy, do we have a lot. Jackson Creek
- is just covered.
- And that's different than other places. And it's just historical. Somebody brought it in, and then everybody
- saw the pretty yellow flowers and moved it to their yard. So there's some variety. Are we making progress?
- Well, MCRIs is 17 years old now. And we think we are making progress landowner by landowner. Our whole
- goal is to.
- have landowners feel enabled to deal with this problem, to be able to go to their yard and know what
- they've got and be able to control it. And so we give free invasive surveys. We've done a couple of
- hundred of those. And each person tells their friends. And we have sort of little nodes of neighborhoods.
- We had about 16 neighborhoods that have reached out that we've helped organize.
- hand developed a special grant for invasive species control if you can get your neighbors to work with
- you on it. And so we see progress. We see a lot of progress on parks and recreation land. And so I think
- we are headed the right direction. There's a lot more just people aware of the issue, just people here
- I can tell are aware of invasives and you know why this is an important issue. So I think we're making progress.
- Yeah, and I'll even say the awareness of invasive species has grown exponentially in their work.
- But yeah, the reality is, from a natural resources perspective and for other areas and divisions within
- parks, without, like I said, we'd be using a lot more labor, a lot more potentially more harmful chemical
- options. We'd be using more fossil fuels.
- especially with our contractors, we contract a lot of mowing. We're trying to take land out of mowing
- and restore it into these beneficial systems that are emulating a natural system that are supporting
- pollinators, supporting all sorts of migratory birds and other types of wildlife, beneficial insects,
- you name it. And so I just anticipate that without the ability to draw upon glyphosate as a tool,
- And which isn't always the right tool, but as a part of our integrated pest management plan, it is an
- important tool. Without it, we would be using alternatives that are less effective, maybe doing more
- soil disturbance, which arguably, in my opinion, is the greater harm. I will also say, just to celebrate,
- as of last year, Bloomington is a city USA.
- As we go into our new ICAM plan, including pollinator protections into that, it's also a boulevard.
- So to tie into the city, I think. And kudos to Joanna for also making that possible. Thank you very
- much. Alex? Well, my first question was her question to Mary. So I guess the other question I have is,
- I've been in an operations role where I dispatch people out to the field.
- what you tell people to do and what actually happens do not always align. So I'm a little, you know,
- if the integrated pest management does not say we should use glycophysate, but that somebody is out
- in the field and they get there and they're like, you know what would be really easy? Just brag and
- say like, is there a concern that that is happening? Is that strictly controlled?
- We know it's not happening. Can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, I'd love to celebrate our staff
- who are well-trained and knowledgeable. It's not required by law for our applicators to be certified
- pesticide applicators, but they are. So our pesticide applicators are public applicators within the
- operations division. And I believe within, I can't speak to other areas, but I believe in our divisions.
- So they are trained.
- They have that certification, which is stringent. We have multiple categories of applicators. So we
- have people that are ornamental. We have people that are industrial right-of-way weed management. We
- have people that are forestry specialists. There's hope to get someone back under the aquatic label
- for categories. So all those things are important to us. Our contractors are required to have them.
- So even if we are not applying internally and we hire a contractor, they are required to, by law, because
- they're doing it for pay, to be OASC, or Office of the Indiana State Chemist Pesticide Applicators,
- certified. And we do internal refresher training. And some of my staff just stay up at night reading
- pesticide labels.
- to better understand. I literally brag on that all day long. They care. They want to make sure they're
- using it. We stay on top of research, and we go to conferences, and we just try to stay up to date on
- our use of pesticides and glycophagic, and just weighing all the pros and cons, and making decisions,
- and changing how we work on a daily basis. And to be clear,
- because Mother Raul's comment on kind of the division of how much we use where you don't know
- that information from like a current standpoint. I cannot say that this meeting, but we can provide
- that information upon request. Absolutely. I would find that. And I would say just to clarify
- that occasionally we are using herbicide or other glyphosate for native species control, ragweed, or
- if we have a
- early successional pollinator planting that we want to keep a pollinator planting, we have to keep some
- undesirable woody vegetation out of that system. So occasionally it's used on native plants based on
- the goal of the habitat management goal. All right. Any further questions? Yeah. Just a few to wrap
- up. So thank you very much for your commentary and your answers, because this is a really complicated
- topic that the issue of chemical inputs in general is thorny and complex. Practically speaking, two
- interrelated questions that I would be happy to hear either of you respond to. In terms of application,
- the medium of application, if there were limits on how you can apply, what, if any, impact would this
- have on your overall species management goals?
- So put it this way, if you're painting instead of spraying, would that severely hamper or be onerous
- in some particular way? So second question related to this would be, why would it matter how you are
- applying these things? Well, the question is, as you've pointed out, glyphosate is a broad spectrum.
- It's a very potent tool, and part of the question
- Part of the issues related to that are A, public health questions about it being a carcinogen, and B,
- the other question that hasn't been raised that I'm interested in maybe us bringing to the picture here
- is its broader ecological impacts, not just on flora, which we know is its target, but fauna. So you
- are an expert in pollinators, and I expect you have quite a bit of experience in the sort of breadth
- of pollinators as well.
- What kind of impact, if any, does the, again, compared to, 17 gallons is nothing, just simply nothing
- for, what's the total area we're talking about? 2000, I'm not saying we sprayed on every acre. We're
- talking city area, not county area, correct? City, we're managing 2,342 acres of parks property.
- Please note that other people may be using what you say outside of parks. But I mean, just, you know,
- I have expertise in the political ecology of agriculture. And 17 gallons is just, the issue is really
- agriculture in my mind. But it doesn't mean that there aren't potential impacts. And so I'm interested
- just to reiterate this in a succinct way. How would limiting the delivery affect you, if at all, and be
- Would that have positive, would a limitation on spraying, for instance, have positive effects in terms
- of fauna, you know, pollinators, insects, other kinds of creatures that glyphosate might be harming
- outside of the question of plants? I can speak to that, and hopefully Ellen, please, if you have anything
- additional to add. Well, I just want to give an example. Over the last two years, our internal staff
- have used a combination of cut stump and foliar application on invasive woody
- in the state-dedicated nature portion of Griffey, which is Griffey Woods Nature Preserve, they've cleared
- 40 acres of honeysuckle. And a lot of that was cut stumped, but we're not done. So we've cleared the
- first wave. If we didn't have foliar spray to come back in and treat, we'd have to wait for that to
- grow back up till it was easy enough to cut and then start all over.
- So is foliar used on saplings? Well, foliar will be used on re-sprouts, which is most likely going to
- happen, even if you cut stump or you've got some smaller new growth. The seed source doesn't go away.
- It comes in from outside neighbor areas, burning bush, autumn olive, honeysuckle. All of that is coming
- in from the land surrounding the rift, which is, I'd say, most between the IU land and us that are very
- privately owned.
- not as managed as we're attempting to do at Griffey. So that's just an example. I could speak to it
- on a case-by-case basis. And then I'll also just mention things like Japanese soil grass. We use it
- at very low rates, and especially in areas where it's near water or where there's potential for runoff
- into surface water. We're using aquatic label formulations. So we normally would be using a grass-specific
- formulation that's very targeted.
- But in the areas where we have sensitive sites, we need to dial in on the very low concentration that
- barely harms even our native raminoids and keeps something on the ground. And we're able to keep it
- out of areas, though there are some areas that it's just, it's almost, yeah, it's a hard thing to watch
- as it continues to spread throughout our county. I think that's all I've got. Oh, and I will say,
- That method of reducing the size of vegetation is one of our ways to reduce impacts on pollinators and
- beneficial insects and other organisms. We're reducing the size. Theoretically, we're doing everything
- we can to not spray when we've got flowers, when pollinators are active in the area. So we're picking
- times of day, times of year when pollinators and beneficials are not active to reduce the amount of harm
- on those systems when we're spraying a foliar application. Last very quick question, just to resolve
- some of the questions I have in regard to sources. You very generously provided some sources in your
- letter to us. And I found that very helpful. Is it possible to attach, as like an exhibit or something
- along those lines, something informative in terms of like a bibliography of studies that are
- supporting or expressing these kinds of positions regarding public health questions, regarding volunteer
- questions, et cetera. Yes. Thank you. Perfect.
- All right. Well, yes, we are coming up at the end of the meeting. So I think we'll end the Q&A session
- there. I want to thank our guests again for joining us tonight. This has been really helpful for me.
- I think everyone got a lot out of that. So thank you very much. Really appreciate you taking the time
- to be here. Thank you for giving us the opportunity. We appreciate you. Great questions. All right.
- So that brings us to the deliberation point. So I just want to make a quick note about procedural stuff
- here, especially since we're coming up at the time limit.
- We're probably not gonna have enough time to talk through all this stuff. There's a couple things that
- we can do. So now would be the time to do the motion and the second, and that opens up for deliberation.
- At that point, we could choose to postpone this definitely, which means we pick a specific date in the
- future that we're going to come back to this and go through the discussion again, just like we would
- have today. We could postpone indefinitely, which means we don't set a future date and it basically
- never comes back on its own. That effectively would kill it, but that's a procedural option people should
- know about.
- Those are the two big ones. Any questions about the procedure before we move on? OK. In that case, I'll
- ask for a motion and a second to consider resolution 2026-04 for adoption. Motion to consider the resolution
- for adoption. OK, there's a motion. Is there a second? Seconded. OK, there's a second. So now we're
- in the deliberation stage. This is where we just generally discuss. We bring up any amendments that
- exist out there. I know Alex has one in the pipeline for or against.
- Zach. Oh, I'm sorry, Zach. Zach does. Yeah, go ahead, Councilmember Morrell. Oh, I'm sorry. I don't
- mean to interrupt. You haven't seen that there's an amendment that's proposed? Yes. Yeah, it's in the
- packet materials. But Tara, did you have a? Well, is this where we would move to postpone it? It is.
- OK, I move that we postpone the deliberation to the May meeting. I second that.
- Okay, so there's a motion and a second to postpone until our next regular meeting, which is in May,
- and there's a second. Is there any discussion about that postponement? Can we not add 30 minutes to
- our meeting one time? That's subject to the availability of staff. Because we have online people, we're
- going to have to do a voice vote to decide whether or not to extend the meeting. How's that relevant?
- We're gonna run out of time. Okay. Yeah, so let me just I'll just do a quick. Is there anyone that could
- not stay? some extra time I'm not cannot say 30 minutes. Yeah, I can't say pass 730 15 minutes. How's
- that sound for everybody? And we went we went 40 minutes over our allotted time for the convert for
- the experts. I don't know that we
- 15 minutes. It's not sufficient. I mean, we probably still have to post, but it's probably going to
- be a lot of discussion. So Alex. I think that we could have some discussion in the deliberation about
- postponing of that could be targeted about what we want to hear when we move it. So like a brief mini
- discussion and we should probably have a vote to accept the meeting at this point. Okay.
- Well, we're probably going to have to, just because we have to deal with these other open motions. So
- there's a motion to extend by how long? Motion to extend the meeting by 15 minutes. By 15 minutes. In
- a second? Second. Okay. All right. So we'll go through the roll call vote to extend to 745. Tara? Yes.
- Yes. Justin? Yes. Matt? Yes. Yes. Christopher? Yes. Yes. Zach? Yes. Yes. Councilmember Rallo?
- Yes. Yes. Um, Quentin. Yes. Yes. Alex. Yes. Yes. Maria. Yes. Yes. Shanghai is not here. Um, Diana, I
- think she, did she jump off? I think so. I think she, yeah, she was coming in and out. Sure. Ross. Yes.
- Yes. Okay. Um, we are extended to, uh, 7 45. Um, we do have, so that brings us back to our active motion
- on postponing definitely until the,
- uh, May regular meeting. So I'll open up the floor for discussion on that postponement. Uh, I support
- this postponement, um, for that May meeting. I would really like to see, I have a core sense of the
- city's total use of Lexington safe. Um, I would like to have a better idea of how much in 2026 we are applying
- I support postponing the meeting. And I also am curious, I very much appreciate the time of our experts,
- but since they were both from the same side, I wonder if it would be beneficial to invite someone, an
- outside expert of the opposing view for the commission to ask questions too. I am a little unclear
- procedure, which is part of my issue here. So I agree with postponing. My question is there was quite
- a lot of material raised, a lot of meaningful questions, a lot of meaningful points. Is the procedure
- that we would at the next meeting discuss and then have to vote on like up or down on this? Or like
- what are the opportunities to actually chew over some of the meaningful and not simple content of what
- we've talked
- Yeah, so if we postpone, definitely as has been proposed, then at the next meeting, this would be another
- agenda item, just like it is now. And if we did want to do another Q&A, we could, of course, do it in
- the same format we have here. Otherwise, we would just ask for a motion in a second to bring it up for
- adoption, like we just did. And then we would discuss. And that would also be the opportunity during
- deliberation to bring amendments forward. Right. Right. We wanted to change it. Yeah. So over that next
- month, we would be able to take what we heard from today
- propose any new amendments. Right. You have to move to adopt. You have to do a yay to adopt. And then
- you'd have an opportunity to deliberate and propose amendments. Yeah, just a motion in a second. And
- then that gives us the opportunity to deliberate. It's a motion to consider it for adoption. Yeah. So
- it's a motion to like, yes, we're voting that we want to vote. Yeah. And then there are nested votes
- within that for any changes that we want to make. How exciting. Yeah. Robert's rules. It's good stuff.
- I love your remarks.
- don't support postponing. I think we need to be more flexible about time. I think we only meet once
- per month. We have an ambitious agenda of things set up. I think we should stay later and just get this
- knock out of the park. But that's my opinion. Do you feel like we have enough time to just stay? I think
- we just stay until it's done is what I would do. But anyway, that's my two cents. Quentin. Well, I support
- postponing, understanding people may
- the, I guess where I come, I'm coming from it is I'm, I'm, I feel like it is as far as within the city
- sort of boundaries, but it could be argued that there might be more, you know, higher, you know, importance,
- uh, things that we could focus on. However, this is, we're talking about toxic chemicals widespread
- all over the place. And I'm thinking about, okay, what if, you know,
- What if the real value that can be had here is sort of sending that market signal, that buzz, that doing
- something here makes a change and gets other people in cities across the country or other places interested?
- So I guess that's where I'm left at. It's sort of like, it is what it is here, but could we use this
- to do something bigger? OK. Yep. Tara? So it's by motion, but I actually
- think that we probably could. I would feel comfortable voting on it, because I feel comfortable saying
- no, because I don't think this addresses what the actual issue is. And I don't feel comfortable putting
- my name on this resolution as it currently stands, because it lacks citations, and it's not clear what
- it's actually trying to do. It's mostly without covering things that are not within the city's jurisdiction
- that are the issue.
- That said, I think with everything that we've learned today, I think there's an opportunity for some
- good amendments to say something else about test management and application and the way it's used outside
- of the city's jurisdiction and what we want to say about that, which is why I proposed postponing. Gotcha.
- OK. Anyone else with thoughts about the decision to postpone this to the next meeting?
- Then we'll go to a roll call vote. So this is a vote to postpone the consideration of this resolution
- until our May regular business meeting. Yes. To clarify, so there was a motion to proceed with deliberation.
- You can't postpone it until you voted to consider it, and then you can postpone. Right. So wouldn't
- you do the vote first for the consideration then?
- We've had a motion and a second for the consideration, and so that's what brought us into deliberation
- about it. You don't have to vote on that part. Voting web yes or no, adopt it. It's a series of nested
- things, and then you have to deal with the nested things. You can't postpone it until you've done the
- motion to consider it.
- I just wanted to make sure we were in proper order. There you go. All right, any further discussion
- on the decision to postpone this until the next meeting? Okay, then we'll go to a vote on that. Tara?
- Yes. Yes to postpone. Justin, I will abstain among the fans. Matt? Abstain. Abstain. Christopher? Yay. Yay.
- Zach? No. No. Councilmember Rallo? Sure, yeah. Yep. Quentin? Yeah. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? Yes.
- Yes. Shanghai is not on. Diana, is she on? Nope. Okay. And Ross? Yes. Yes. Okay. One, two, three, four,
- five, six, seven. Yays. Two abstentions and one no. So, yes.
- passes, and we will reconsider this at our next meeting. And in the meantime, folks can think about
- amendments that they might want to offer. If anyone has any ideas of other guests that we might want
- to bring in to address the commission, please let me know, and we'll try to get something like that
- arranged. Sure. There is a little bit of confusion out there. I did receive an email asking that if
- this commission passed this resolution, would the city of Bloomington automatically ban
- the substance and the answer is no. This is an advisory session. It's only advisory. You're giving advice
- to city council. Thank you for saying that. That's right. We can only make recommendations. Nobody has
- to listen to it. That's right. Okay. Councilor Rurallo. Yeah, I just wanted to alert everybody. I sent
- that data from 2015 to everybody's email account and it's a lengthy list of chemicals
- It's not only glyphosate that's applied, it's a lot of other things, so you might have a look at that
- before we continue to the discussion. And I'll try to get an updated, I'll request an updated list from
- the Parks and Recs director. Councilmember Rallo, if you get that list from the Parks and Recs director,
- will that only be Parks and Recs use of it though? Actually, I think it was citywide.
- It was actually, I think it was the, I got from the deputy mayor at the time in 2015. And I think that
- was sitting wide, but it's a good question. I mean, I see that it's used for various parks golf course.
- If you, if you open it up, it's an Excel spreadsheet and then natural resources use. I don't know if
- it's used for maybe by public works somewhere, you know, for sidewalks and things like that.
- I want to find out. I'd also just encourage all the commissioners to review before next meeting to review
- the integrated pest management plan. And just to make sure that whatever form of this resolution, is
- it redundant or doesn't recommend things that are actually already in here? And knowing that they're
- working on an updated version and any resolution could make
- A question on logistics for next meeting. Does this take precedence over, will this be top of the agenda
- again? Is that, that's my, I have a, I had two other. Yeah, we've got a backlog now. It doesn't have
- to be. I mean, the ones for first reading come first naturally, so we don't necessarily have to move
- that next time. And I have the Kirkwood one, which the program, if they were to restart it, which I
- don't think I'm going to, but if they were going to, it would have been in May, which means it's too
- late. Oh, fair point.
- Yeah, we have some latitude there in terms of how we order the individual ones. Absolutely. Okay. So
- we are done with that resolution for today. Now, since we are already over time, I'm going to make a
- motion that we just adjourn and everything that we didn't get to today will be put off until the next
- meeting. So next meeting should be a good busy one as well.
- So I'll make that motion. Is there a second? Second. OK. There's a motion and a second to end the meeting,
- to adjourn. Any discussion? Are there any member comments? Sorry? Any member announcements? Oh, no.
- This is a motion to just end the meeting. Why did you have something? No. OK. Just to thank everybody
- who's involved in coordinating the experts. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you, everybody
- who participated tonight.
- One quick question. How long would it have taken for us to get through the proposed resolutions in terms
- of moving them forward? Five minutes. Yeah, sort of. We have five minutes. There's going to be a backlog
- anyway with this plus the other person. We've created a backlog by going too slow on this. It's okay.
- It's not the other way around. Yeah, that's a good point. We could have just done the first reading
- once real quick. It's okay. All right.
- Yep. Okay. All right. So this is a vote to adjourn the meeting. Tara? Yes. Yes. Justin? Yes. Matt? Yes.
- Yes. Christopher? Sure. Sure. Zach? I don't know. I think we should move on. No. Councilmember Rallo?
- Yeah. Yes. Quentin? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Marina? Yes. Yes. Shanghai is not here. Diana is not here.
- And Roth? Yes.
- Yes, okay. That's one no and the rest are yes. So we stand adjourned at 742. I want to remind everyone
- that our next meeting is a special meeting later this month. The announcement will go out about that
- soon. Ordinary booths will not be entertained. That's correct. This will be a special meeting that we
- won't vote on anything. All we'll be doing is receiving this information. Thank you everybody.