All right, everyone, we'll go ahead and get started. We're at 6.01. You're never going to believe this,
but we have a packed agenda tonight, so we better get it moving. So I call to order this meeting of
the Bloomington Commission on Sustainability and Resilience at 6.01 PM. And we will go through the roll
call. And just a reminder for commissioners that are dialing in online, whenever you respond to a roll
call or a vote or anything like that, to make sure you unmute yourself and un-video mute yourself.
Okay, Tara Dunn here. Here. Justin Vassel, I'm here. Matt Austin. Present. Present. Quentin Gilley.
I'm here and I'll be there soon. Okay, perfect. Appreciate it. Okay, Christopher Miles. Here. Here.
Zach Omerman. Here. Here. Dave Rallo. Here. Here, virtual.
Alex York? Here. Here. Maria Arstad? Here. Here. Shenghuai Xu? Nope. Okay. Diana Ogrodowsky? I'm here.
Here. Virtual. And Ross Carlson? Here. Here. Okay.
Perfect. So that brings us to the approval of the agenda. So since we are anticipating a pretty substantial
discussion on resolution 2026-04, I'm going to suggest that we rearrange a couple things on the agenda.
For that, there's a good chance there's going to be some stuff that we maybe don't get to that's on
the agenda. And if that happens, if we just don't have time for it, that'll automatically get pushed
to the next meeting. So what I'm going to suggest, and I'll just
lay this out quick and ask if anyone else has any other changes that they want to make and then maybe
we can get it all done in one motion here. But what I'm going to suggest is that we move the staff liaison
report just after the commissioner's report and before discussion is not the subject of resolution,
just because that one has kind of gotten cut off at the end of our previous meetings.
The second thing I want to suggest is that we move our resolutions for first reading to come after the
resolutions for second reading. So we can sort of front load that longer discussion that we're expecting
to have. And then anything that we don't get through after that, we can just readdress at the next meeting.
So before I make that motion, is there anyone else who has something else they want to suggest as far
as agenda changes go?
Hearing none, I'll move that we move the staff liaison report to after the commissioner's reports and
that we move resolutions for first reading after our resolutions for second reading. Seconded. There's
a second. All right. Any further discussion? Okay. We'll move on to a vote then. We'll do a roll call
vote since we have folks dialing in online. Tara? Yes. Yes. Justin, yes. Matt? Yes. Yes. Christopher?
Yes. Yes. Zach? Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yes. Quinton? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? Yes. Yes. Shenghuai is not here. Somebody in the
waiting room, but not Shenghuai. Diana? Yes. Yes. And Ross? Yes. Yes. Okay. The agenda is approved as amended.
So that brings us to the... So that brings us to the approval of the minutes for March 10th, 2026, which
were circulated with the agenda last week. Are there any corrections to be made to those minutes? Okay.
Is there a motion to approve? Motion to approve. And a second? Second. Perfect. All right. We'll go
through the roll call. Tara? Yes. Yes. Justin? Yes. Matt? Yes. Yes. Christopher? Yes.
Yes. Zach? Yes. Yes. Councilmember Rallo? Yes. Yes. Quentin? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? Yes. Yes.
Shenghuai? Diana? Yes. Yes. And Ross? Yes. Yes. Okay. The minutes for March 10th, 2026 are approved.
So that will bring us to the public comment portion of the meeting. So we've got about 10 minutes set
aside for this. If folks want to make public comments about anything they desire, they are welcome to.
We'll ask that, we'll probably try to go back and forth between here in the room and on Zoom. If we
have folks on Zoom that want to make comment, we limit each comment up to three minutes.
And we'll just ask that you come up to the table and sit in one of the guest spots here and just state
your name for the record and then make your comment. So we'll start here in the room. Is there anyone
who would like to make public comment tonight? Okay, I'm not seeing anyone right away in the room. Is
there anyone on Zoom who would like to make public comment? I would like to make a public comment.
OK, perfect. Yeah, we've got you loud and clear. So yeah, go ahead. And if you could state your name
as you begin. Yes, my name is Ellie Spear. And my public is that I received as a member a community
for a neighborhood grant last year. And I appreciated the opportunity for our neighborhood
We've expanded it and opened it up to us people in the community, but we're all kings. But as a part
of that grant, I received a 1099 NC, which is for non-employment compensation. And I was not paid as
a C member by the DCOTS grant, only for supplies. So it's a little hiccup where I'm going to be charged
And I'm working right now with, or I've made it into accounting to change this up. But I just wanted
to acknowledge that this did happen to me. You did award grants to anyone else. That they may be in
a situation, but have just turned their form that they're accountants or the tax advisor and not
as a concern because I'm working to review the forms. So that's what I'm commenting on. Then I'm also,
a second comment is the Any Kind of Neighborhood Grant. As I continue to commend this to community organizations,
very difficult and challenged for them, and they're giving up. I say I will help them, I help them as
much as possible, but they're really, people are giving up. And I know you want to support all different
kinds of sustainability initiatives. So I'm just giving you my feedback from home. Thank you. Thank
you very much. Appreciate that feedback.
Is there anyone else in the room here who would like to give public comment? A point of clarification,
if I can just. Sure. This is the only opportunity for someone to speak about the resolution, dash 04,
that we're going to be discussing later. At that point, there will be no public comment. That's correct.
OK. So if there is anyone who wants to make a comment, now would be the time. Yes. Thank you. That's
a good clarification.
Okay, I'm not seeing any more activity in the room. Is there anybody else on Zoom who would like to
make public comment? Okay, I'm not seeing any activity there. Great, well thank you so much for that
comment. That'll bring us on to commissioner reports. So we'll do the chair's report first.
So a few things to go over here. Organizational updates on the report itself. You can see the org chart
there. There's not a whole lot that's new. This meeting that wasn't there last meeting just except for
the officer slate is of course new because we held officer elections at our last meeting. We currently
have two vacancies and so we've got 12 of the 14 seats filled at the moment.
the O'Neill school capstone project on sustainable energy utilities. We've got a final presentation
on that coming up later this month on Tuesday, April 28th, from 530 to 630 in council chambers. So it's
a Tuesday evening, but it's a slightly different time than usual, a slightly different week than usual
and a fairly different location than usual. It's just right down the hall. So we're expecting to receive
the presentation on the final report from that.
and also an opportunity to maybe ask some questions as well. I sent out a survey to folks asking if
they'd be available for that slot so that we could guarantee that we would have a quorum for that. I
heard back from eight people and they all said that they could make it. So that means we should have
a quorum, but of course I haven't heard from everybody. So if you're able to make it, please do plan
for that. And I'll send out a public notice here this week
for that special meeting. And if you know that you are not able to make it, please also let me know
so I can keep track of that. Yeah. Send out that survey to anybody who didn't respond. Sure. In case
people forgot whether they responded or not. Yeah, yes. Yes, I can absolutely do that. Yeah. Or I could
just send out the notice and anyone who knows that they won't be able to make it can email me, you know.
But yeah. Just asking for a friend. That's very kind, yeah. I'm sure it didn't get buried under a pile
of emails. We don't get emails that much, right? Okay, good. But yeah, very much looking forward to
hearing that report. I assume we're still on for that, Alex. Haven't heard anything to the contrary?
I have not heard anything to the contrary. Okay, no news is good news. Perfect.
I just wanted to mention for resolution 2026-02, which we passed at our last meeting, which was about
the automated license plate reader technology. That resolution has been transmitted to all the offices
that were listed in the resolution. Actually save one, which is the Monroe County Sheriff. I went to
the website and tried to find the email address there and I could not find one. That seemed like an
obvious one. So I'm still digging for that. If anybody has it, let me know.
probably like sheriff at code up on road or something but okay like their party connection but I'm not
sure it gets to okay perfect appreciate that and just for everyone's awareness as well just wanted to
point out that you know City Council had a resolution 2026-04
Um, you know, which came out a couple of weeks or a month or something before we passed ours. Um, and
part of that resolution called on the, um, Bloomington chief of police and the office of the mayor to
provide a written information packet. Um, by I think April 15th, it was, it was like a six week timeline.
Um, so I think April 15th is that, that timeline, um, which goes over, you know, the contract terms
and the cost data retention, these sorts of things. Um, and I think, uh, that there's going to be a
public briefing about that.
at the council's meeting at April 22nd, but I know the council hasn't put out their agenda for that
yet, so don't quote me on that. But if that's something you're interested in following along with, just
keep an eye out for that. I want to put out a call.
related to a different flock resolution, not the one we passed last time, not about surveillance technology,
but about chickens. So this was resolution 2025-01, which we passed last year. It was titled to adopt
a scalable poultry flock size model. And it basically recommended to the city that folks who have larger
properties be allowed to keep more chickens than they're currently able to. And so we passed
that recommendation, but it hasn't,
come up in an ordinance form or anything like that. So what we'd like to do try to make it as easy as
possible for city council would be to try to draft that sort of ordinance language and then send that
over to them. So I'm hoping I can find a volunteer here at this table that would be willing to dig into
what that resolution says and into the municipal code and the UDO and try to just identify all the sections
there that we would need to change the language to allow for this to happen.
Is anyone here interested in doing something like that? And I wasn't looking at you because I was trying
to make it happen, but okay, great. Appreciate that, yeah. Once we know exactly where those changes
would have to be made, then we can work out what language we'd actually want to put into a draft form,
and then maybe we can shop around some of the relevant departments and stuff just to get some more eyes
on it before we send it, yeah. I cannot take on writing this, but having
just applied for a chicken permit. I know I can send you all the relevant documentation and code. Excellent.
Okay, perfect. Thank you. Okay, great. And then just a few internal updates, ongoing projects and stuff
like this. So the 2026 strategic planning retreat and the 2025 angle report have sort of been on
My list of things that I keep saying is almost done and ready to go. So apologies that it hasn't been
done yet. But I will make these two a very high, high up priority to get out the door before our next
meeting. We will do a strategic planning retreat. Still just have to work out the details.
A couple other things that have sort of been on the back burner for a while now, some sort of commissioners
handbook slash onboarding materials that folks can use to reference, you know, have everything kind
of in one place, things like bylaws and best practices, things like this. And bylaws reform is another
one that we've been talking about for a while and just haven't
quite gotten to yet. And that's made even more relevant now that the municipal code numbers have changed
and the parts of the code that refer to our commission are in a different place now. So the bylaws are
extra, extra out of date and ready for a revamp. So stay tuned for more on that front. And we'll probably
be asking for more volunteers to help write these sections of that sort of thing. Okay, so finally,
getting down to sort of external updates. These are mostly just
for folks awareness type stuff. There's been a lot of work on the Hopewell South PUD, specifically at
the moment. This housing policy and zoning policy is something that we've talked about as a commission
before, wanting to be more involved in, wanting to understand a little bit better. It was one of our
priority areas back in 2025. And so I just wanted to point this out as something that's a very
prescient and, you know, fast-moving topic, it's probably just good to pay attention to. So I know the
next two council meetings, there's a special deliberative session, I think, tomorrow, and then,
you know, the following week on April 22nd, I think this is going to be on the agenda for those council
meetings, so it's probably worth following along with for folks who are interested.
The mayor recently gave a State of the City address, so definitely encourage all commissioners to watch
the recording of that if you weren't there or you haven't seen it yet, just to stay in the loop on that
sort of thing. And then I was just reading about Bloomington Transit considering merging a couple of
routes and expanding some of their microtransit capabilities, and this was in the context of year-over-year
ridership declines that they've been seeing. So as we think about sustainability and transit being a
part of that, I think this is also something that's worth
at least flight following, right? And then a couple other just MISC reminders and notes that we've had
up there, a couple items there that we've had for a few weeks, the compost bin and rain barrel sale,
which I think is still going on. But last I checked at least, this is sort of the last call. So the
order deadline is tomorrow and pick up dates the week following.
Bloomington Energy Works website is linked up there. And then the new one this time is that early voting
has begun for the May 5th election, primary election. So obviously, you know, democratic participation
is good for social and civic sustainability. So if you haven't gotten out to vote yet, please make a
plan to do so. And also note that there is a new location for early voting, which is right down the
hallway here in the county side of this building.
If you haven't seen all the signs already, you probably will, walking out of here tonight.
And then as always, I just link various resources that you can follow. So that's it for, oh, that's
not it for the chair's report. I was also going to mention Earth Day, which is happening at Switchyard
Park April 18th, I believe. Starting at, I forget exactly what time, but. 12.30 to four is the advertising time.
at noon to 3.30. Noon to 3.30, okay. Yeah, perfect, perfect. So we'll hear that a couple times, thankfully.
Yes, and so we are participating. Tara's been helping get some of the materials together, and Jolie
as well. Jolie has done everything. I really appreciate Jolie's help. She moved mountains to get us
some necessary supplies and things. I just need to make sure that there's folks that will be there.
I'll be there in the morning.
For the beginning, I just can't stay the whole day. So I just need to volunteer to take the tablecloth
and any remaining things. Okay, great. Thank you Okay, thank you. Yeah, Julie like she saved us. Thank
you because I did a bad job Yeah, I know at some of the other meetings Dan some other folks said they
could be there I just want to make sure there's somebody who can be there at the end of the day so that
our stuff doesn't get
swept into our branding data block doesn't get trashed. Yeah, exactly. OK, so perfect. So that's going
to be Zach. I got volunteer to be there. OK, perfect. So there'll be someone to take it away.
And I know, yeah, Diana had mentioned also helping out. But it sounds like we've got at least the beginning
and the end covered. So it should be good on that front. Perfect. Well, thank you very much. And yeah,
Quentin. I just had just a quick miscellaneous update.
I used to have an annual sustainability symposium next Wednesday, three to five. I want to personally
invite all the commissioners and everybody involved in making this group happen. So feel free to jump
on the website, sustain.iu.edu. There's still some spots left. Perfect. Having gone for six or seven
years besides COVID is well worth going. The students are doing great work. So I won't be there because
I'll be in Costa Rica.
Nice. That's what we'll hear about that later. Yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you very much. Yeah. And thank
you guys. Thank you, Jolie, for all the help getting this together. It's good to have a presence there
for the second year in a row. Get the word out. OK. Any questions on the chair's report before we move on?
then I'll pass it over to you Matt for Waste Management Working Group updates. So a couple quick updates.
Wanted to let everyone know the Waste Reduction District has a really simple and easily accessible grant
that closes May 15th for sustainability and waste reduction. They have $17,000 left. There was already
one that was approved for $3,000 and we got it reopened. So once again, it's very simple, very forgiving,
very easy. So please look into that.
And then I wanted to let everybody know about a local company that is 3D printing, working on 3D printing
homes called TerranRobotics.ai. Ryan Zaricki, who is the former owner of Wholesun Solar, is working
in that. It is a startup. They have 20 employees. And they are hoping to expand sometime soon. Turns
out that they're getting advice and whatnot from a company named Icon down in
Austin, Texas, who turns out the CEO I worked with when I lived down there. So a local company and they
remember the Cobb Bench project. It works in Cobb and stuff like that. So they might be proposing a
neighborhood grant to try and reopen that as well. But I thought it was really, really interesting that
we have a local startup that is doing 3D printing within that Cobb world. And then this is my last meeting.
City Council has not gotten back to
Either fill my seat or fill it with me, so I'll be sitting in the cheap seats next month. That is a
Monroe County grant. Thank you for that clarification. Is the grant for residents or for organizations?
All of the above. Yeah. I think it's a max of $5,000, but it's a very simple form. And the date is May
15 to get it in by.
you'll find on the Waste Reduction District's website. And that's it for me. Perfect. Any other questions
for Matt? OK. And I'll just say, if this is your last meeting in the Chief Seats, as you said,
next month, just wanted to say thank you for all the work that you've done for the commission over the
years. When I first got here, and I can't remember exactly when that was,
a few years ago. Looking around the room, there's three people in here, myself included, who
were commissioners at that time. Matt was one of them, and Sean was one of them as well. So, you've
been doing this for a while, and this is something that you've been very passionate about for a while.
I appreciate you bringing that to us. All right. That brings us to our Council ex officio report. Council
Member Rallo, over to you.
Yes, thanks, Justin. I just wanted to follow up on what you'd already announced, which is our deliberation
session tomorrow evening, which is April 15th from 630 to 930. Deliberation sessions function to allow
us to do a deep dive on topics. And the topic tomorrow is, as Justin mentioned, is the continuation
of the council's discussion on the Hopewell PUD.
which has been presented by the administration, but the petitioner is the RDC, the Redevelopment Commission.
And this will be a joint session with the RDC to discuss, there'll be a presentation from the, I understand,
from the consultant, Glenlock Lab, and then we'll have further discussion on the remaining reasonable
conditions that are brought forward by my colleagues. I don't have any,
of them there are eight remaining and you can find out more about this at our website loomington.in.gov
slash council and go to the sidebar and you'll see the meeting announcement you can click on that and
you can download the packet the packet has a number of slides in it and so it's very descriptive and
you can find out the details there of what we'll be discussing and you're of course welcome
mention one other thing. Three years ago, I brought a resolution to the Council on the existential threat
of artificial general intelligence. And it's still a passion of mine to try to elevate the salience
of that topic to the public. And I gave a talk on it last
And I'm happy to do a abbreviated presentation, shortened one, for because if you're interested. At
some point. I would love that for something. That would be very interesting. That's all I got, Justin.
If there are any questions, anybody have any questions, let me know. I should say the reasonable conditions,
they focus on the streetscape.
And to accommodate a tree plot, narrowing the lanes, a wider sidewalk on Roger Street, and then a discussion
on increasing, our proposition is to increase the affordability of the units there. I did have a question.
Um, has the council hired a lawyer for the reasonable conditions of dispute with the administration?
Yeah, we did. I mean, that unfortunate was kind of a hang up. Um, and we did, we did hire an attorney
and outside firm that, um, that represented us. We had a discussion, um, a couple of weeks ago on that.
Uh, they affirmed that we had, um, the right to offer reasonable conditions. Of course, the administration
or the agency.
right to turn them down and and so that's what we do we do have that ability as we have for a long time
and that was important to me because you know this process I've been through a lot of PVs and they've
been improved by that process take for instance Hillside and Henderson which is a really nice neighborhood
activity center there are
things that occurred there that happened that were required by council. And we negotiate with the developer
on that. So it's something that we are allowed to do and that has been effective. And so I'm happy that
the attorney, you know, affirmed that. And by the way, Justin, you know, I'm still very much and several
of my colleagues are aware of the, you know, readdressing the chicken ordinance.
It's just that we're we don't have an attorney right now. We're going to hire one in interim. There's
an advertisement out for our counsel attorney, but without one, we've been really, you know, had to
scale back the amount of legislation that we've been bringing forward. So it's it's not that that topic
isn't important to us, but I think we look forward to working with a member of the commission on that
once we get a
Yeah, absolutely. And in the meantime, we can try to get into as good a shape as we possibly can so
that once we're at that point, then we're kind of ready to roll with it. Yeah. Great. That's appreciated.
Any further questions for Councilmember Rall? All right. Hearing none, that will now bring us to the
staff liaison's report. Shawn? Thank you. So yeah, Earth Day is this Saturday.
From Noon to 330 at Switchyard Park, we're going to have over 30 vendors. We're going to have four food
trucks. There's going to be a sand mandala that's part of trying to ease climate anxiety. That's with
Artists for Climate Awareness, so I think that'll be really cool. We're going to be giving away free
trees. There's going to be face painters. So there's going to be something there for everybody. So I'd
love to see everybody there. Canopy Bloomington.
planted nearly 20 trees in the Walnut Woods neighborhood and surrounding areas as part of ESD's cool
corridor grant that we provided to them. So really excited to see that in place. And if you go along
Miller Drive, you can see that as a true cool corridor where we planted trees along the sidewalk and
ESD installed a bus stop shelter on Miller Drive as well. So that helps to reduce the impact of extreme
heat and get people shade during the hot summer months.
So that's a great program. We love to see it implemented, and we hope to continue. Bloomington Energy
Works, that program is coming to a close. We will be providing, we will be submitting tomorrow to the
Coalition for Green Capital our clean energy public-private partnership plan. We gathered projects worth
an estimated total of $60 million. These projects were from actual solar designs completed by Donovan
Energy, and also estimated solar projects that we gathered.
So the entire purpose of this program is to potentially bring low-cost finance capital to Monroe County
for project implementation. So keep your fingers crossed. Donovan Energy is still completing some energy
audits for some buildings. We had some applications that were submitted at the final hour. So those
will be completed by the end of this month, and we'll be updating the P3 plan and submitting again at
the end of this month.
Some of those projects are providing a level two ashray energy audit to the Monroe County School Corporation
for Bloomington High School South. That is a significant building and they are extremely thankful for
that energy audit. So I'm really happy with the success of that program. Electrify Indiana, they have
been amazing, an amazing partner to work with. They've worked really hard. They have knocked on over,
I believe now it's 5,000 doors.
We're at just shy of $6,500. $6,500. Okay. Wonderful. And lots of presentations, lots of engagement.
So really getting the word out there about the benefits of energy efficiency and renewable energy. So
that's all I have. I have plenty more, but that's enough. That's fantastic. I would love some details
on the final POW results. I mean, maybe just like,
That's going to be a newsletter update that comes through that project. But maybe next month after reports
are submitted and things as part of this. You said $61 million? I'm sorry. Yeah, over $60 million with
the project. I just have a quick question, too. The climate change inventory, I'm just wondering, are
we still waiting on Duke? We're not waiting on Duke any longer. But we had to request climate now.
to make their report accessible. So that's a heavy lift. So we're working on that. And I have provided
initial feedback from a draft that he sent to me, but we're not going to publish until it's accessible.
And I've asked Wes if he could give a presentation. We will be giving a presentation to city council.
Excellent. Any other questions for Sean?
hearing none. We don't have any discussions that are not the subject of the resolution tonight. So that
brings us on the amended agenda to resolutions for second reading. We'll start with resolution 2026-04
against the use of glyphosate in Bloomington's public spaces and environmental practices. So as you
all know, the public has taken a significant interest in this topic, and that is great to see. I want
to thank everyone who's reached out to share their thoughts with us.
You know, we are an advisory body. Part of our mission is to make informed recommendations to council,
to the mayor, to other entities in the city. And so as a commission, we really do rely on the Bloomington
community to help guide our thinking about sustainability issues and to help educate us on issues where
we don't have widespread in-house expertise so that we can make those recommendations from an informed
position. So again, just want to thank everyone who's reached out about this.
I want to say a few words about the format of this before we get moving with it. We're going to do things
a little bit differently than we have for most other resolutions in the past. So we'll be joined by
two subject matter experts today. In a moment, I'll ask them to come to the table to participate in
a Q&A discussion with commissioners. So after brief introductions, I'll open up the floor for the commission to ask
who asks questions, questions that are pertinent to the topic at hand, specifically glyphosate use within
the city of Bloomington. And whatever questions will help you make an informed decision on the resolution
here. So as always, we want to be sort of cognizant of time. So we should try to go about it in a fairly
orderly way. So I'll ask commissioners to just indicate to me that you'd like to ask a question, and
then I'll try to keep a tally of in what order we're going.
and yes okay well we don't have a public comment section for the resolution we're already past the public
comment phase but yeah thank you for mentioning that
Yeah, so I would just ask that try to focus on one question at a time during that section, and we'll
try to just take turns so everyone gets the opportunity to ask if they have a question that they want
to ask. So I will point out from a procedural standpoint here that we haven't actually moved the resolution
yet, which means we haven't started deliberation on it. So, you know, the Q&A period is an opportunity
just to ask questions, but not a space for actually discussing
thoughts on the topic or the merits of the resolution, that sort of thing. Once we're done with the
Q&A, we'll actually move and ask for a second, and then we'll enter the deliberation phase we can discuss.
Let's see. Okay, so before we get started on that, are there any questions from the commissioners about
sort of how the process will play out here? Okay.
Perfect. Then I'd like to invite up our two subject matter experts, if they're with us in the gallery,
to come on up. Justin, I'm sorry. Can I just briefly say, I just want to disclose for the record that
my husband works for Parks and Recreation and he applies glyphosate. That's part of his job. I don't
see any financial benefit or negative that I would be getting out of this resolution, so I wasn't planning
on recusing myself. If anyone disagrees or thinks I should, I will recuse myself. So just say so.
And I will do so. But otherwise, just want to just close that for the record. Perfect. All right. Thank
you very much. Great. So first, let me welcome you here. And thank you for taking the time out of your
evening to be with us. I know there's probably a million other ways you could be spending your time
right now. But we really appreciate having you here to answer some of our questions. So to start, could
you please introduce yourself by stating your name for the record and giving us just a brief description
of your background and expertise as it relates to the use of glyphosate?
glyphosate, and we'll start here on my right. Hi. Thank you, Justin. Of course. My name is Ellen Jaycart.
I am president of MCIRS, the Monroe County Identify and Reduce Invasive Species Group, started 17 years
ago. My career before I retired, I was the first botanist for the Hoosier National Forest. I then spent
most of the rest of my career working for the nature conservancy.
directing the management of all the nature preserves in Indiana. And about half of that's prescribed
fire. And the other half is invasive species control. So I developed the policies, strategies, and tactics
for dealing with invasive species control on a large scale. And increasingly over the years, I worked
with other organizations and agencies to help them with their policies, strategies, and tactics. And
10 years ago, delightfully, I got to retire.
So at that point, I put more energy into MC Iris. And one of the things I think that really developed
and evolved since then was our relationship with City of Bloomington Parks and Recreation.
And that has been, I think, one of the strongest foundations of our group. And how delightful it was
for me to find an agency that
dealt with herbicides in such a thoughtful manner, committed to integrative pest management, and working
with them has been absolutely wonderful and co-leading volunteer days and teaching people about invasive
ID and control. And so that's why I was so troubled by the content of the resolution and wanted to speak
up and just be able to help answer any questions you might have on
why we believe that glyphosate is a really important tool in the toolbox, and it would be devastating
to lose it. Well, thank you very much, and welcome, and Mary will go to you next. Hi, everybody. I'm
Mary Wells. I am the Natural Resources Manager with the Wilmington Park for Recreation. Ironically,
today is my one-year anniversary job. Congratulations to everybody here.
Prior to being at parts, I was in the nonprofit sector. I was worked at as an invasive species specialist
with State of Indiana Cooperative Invasive Management, helping to establish groups like MCR, which are
known as Cooperative Invasive Species Management Areas throughout Indiana, so in my region of service.
I also worked as a pollinator for
Pollinator Habitat Specialist for Pollinator Partnership, which is a semi-multinational organization
based in San Francisco. So working with landowners in that capacity to salvage habitat, a lot of it
involving the use of herbicides like glyphosate. And also an avid member of NCIRUS involved locally
throughout the years. I'm just very thankful to have Ellen
the leader of that organization. And then before that, I also worked as office manager and involved
in the native plant nursery over at Ecologic. I also worked for a couple years as the education specialist
or director at Sycamore Land Trust. So involving volunteers in invasive species control and other land
stewardship, often using glyphosate while we're working on projects. So yeah, just a passion for taking care of
our natural areas get a good steward of the land, so to speak. Perfect. Well, thank you. And thank you
both, again, for being here. So I will turn it over to commissioners now for questions. Who wants to
go first? Alex? I think mainly for Mary. If this is way too much or impossible, I understand. But can
you give fairly comprehensive examples
where the city, what types of situations the city uses climate safety in? Yeah, for first and foremost,
I can only speak for parks, recreation, and specifically on behalf of the operations division, which
my natural resources forces area is within. And I will speak only to natural resource management as
there may be other uses of climate safety.
even with an operations division. And before I continue, I also want to acknowledge that our integrated
pest management coordinator, Joanna Sparks, who's our marine space manager, is also present in the room.
So we are using glyphosate specifically for non-selective control. It's a broad spectrum or reside that's
systemic, which is one of the reasons why it's such an important tool.
It doesn't just top kill, it gets down into the roots and then kind of ends its action as it binds the
soil particles and starts going through its half-life. So we are using it, a lot of our use, over half
of our use going back just the last few years is for cut stump applications on woody vegetation. So
it is considered a low volume, high concentration method
that is very targeted. And it's, you know, the woody vegetation is cut and immediately treated with
usually a 50% solution depending on the product. But mostly, I think, historically, our solutions have
been 50%, like to say, 50% water, using dye as an indicator, and then also putting up signage when it's
applied and also reporting that on our pesticide notice
interface online. Alternatively, we're also using it for spot foliar treatments. One of our more common
invasives are honeysuckles. So honeysuckle vines, honeysuckle shrubs, they don't respond well to some
of our broadleaf specific herbicides. So I'd like to say it tends to be the best tool for that. So without
that, we've challenged in our control of bush honeysuckle, which is probably one of our largest
invasive species problems in our natural areas here in Monroe County. So the foliar applications are
considered a high volume, low concentration. We're airing on the side of the lower concentration based
on the label. We're using surfactant and dye. Surfactant is a penetrant in order to penetrate the leaf
cuticle. And also, again, putting up our signage and posting it to our online pesticide reporting tool.
that answer your question, did you have additional information? We may also use glyphosate when we're
doing site prep for restoration areas, especially for restoring to seed. If we're doing cover crop seed
down, even for a seed planting or a nurse crop for a tree planting, all of those require seed to soil
contact. When you're restoring a quarter of an acre to five acres,
Glyphosate is a useful tool depending on what's the existing vegetation on site. I have a question.
So what would change in your day to day for either of you? If we pass something along the lines of a
ban, if the city passed a ban on glyphosate, but there was an exception for invasive aggressive non-native
plants, would that change anything about your day to day?
From my area, if that exception was in place, as long as it was not the factor for site prep, I don't
anticipate it. But I do anticipate that other challenges from a monetary standpoint, a safety standpoint,
from a natural resources standpoint, even in urban settings or green space areas, that there would be
negative impacts to restrict the use of glyphosate for other areas, but that's, I should say that I'm
speaking on outside of the area that I should be directly commenting on. But I guess I don't understand
what would change if you were allowed to use it for invasive plants, what would change specifically?
I'm just curious, I don't know. Nothing for my area. Okay. Yeah. All right, thank you. I'll say because
I've been in
Preparing for this, I talked with a professor in Florida who's dealt with a lot of glyphosate issues
there. As you know, some communities in Florida have attempted to ban glyphosate. And one of the things
that they saw was a great increase in lawsuits, largely because glyphosate was used to keep sidewalk
cracks clean. They had no other way to do that effectively. And there were a lot of slip and fall lawsuits.
And that changed how they dealt with it.
Okay, thank you. Does Lamington apply, I'd like to say, for grass? I'm not the best person to be talking
to you. And if we were to apply it on grass, I'd like to say it would kill the grass. So it's a non-selective
herbicide, so in that capacity, no, but for maintenance of sports fields, I can't think of that. Christopher?
I just had a couple of questions of clarification.
regarding your previous answer. So you described foliar use. Can you define that for the record? Yep.
So foliar spray is typically going to be a backpack applied by a single applicator with a wand spray
tip where they can adjust the spray nozzle to increase droplet size or reduce drift. Occasionally, for
those areas where we're doing site prep, there's two other broadcast methods.
that might be used on a larger spray tank. So running just a broadcast spray from a tank sprayer. Like
a truck or a compressor. Or behind an ATV or some sort of vehicle. And very rarely, I don't even know
if I have an example of this, because more unlikely we'd use a selective for tank spraying if we had a lot of
one thing and nothing else that was invasive. So thank you. You said 50% roughly application is,
so to speak, painted onto stems. Over 50%. Over 50%. So over half of the use of WebSA is direct application
to the stems of things like honeysuckle using a paintbrush or a similar applicator where it's not being
aerosolized. But roughly 50% to 60% is these other varieties of
broadcast application, would that include what you described as the sort of, you didn't use this word,
but correct me if I'm mistaken, like a suppressant land prep application, like you said, when you're
clearing out areas for restoration, which means basically bringing them back to zero in terms of flora
and fauna that are there, preemptive wheeling it down to kill seeds that might be invasives, planting
to grow up a more native area, correct?
Is that also an aerosolized? Is that sort of like an agricultural type application where you're broadcast
spraying across a plot of land? So for site prep, that broadcast application is very common. Occasionally,
we're able to be more targeted if there's some existing vegetation that's beneficial. And I would say
the term aerosolized may not be appropriate because there aren't pesticide applications that are truly
aerosolized from a plane, for example.
droplet-based application where managing droplet size is going to reduce drift. And also, I've heard
a lot of information in my statement where the steps we take to reduce drift off-target damage and negative
impacts to natural resources. I should also say that some of that foliar application is spot application.
And some of it is in response to, is a follow-up to cut stump treatment.
so that we're reducing target size. So a lot of times we're using mechanical or manual means to reduce
target size, allow vegetation to re-sprout, and then we have a smaller target, we're using a lot less
herbicide and a foliar mechanism than we would if we just came in and sprayed 10 foot tall bush honeysuckle
in a forested understory. So we don't want that because it would have much more off-target damage than
we would in this target application we're doing.
these cut treatments and allowing to resprout before it gets to a point where it's unsafe for the applicator
and also unsafe for the environment and the areas that we're applying. Thank you. I have other questions,
but I can wait. I think Maria and then Tarpe. Mary, I have a couple of questions about the city's integrated
pest management plan.
It states in the plan, the integrated pest management plan will be reviewed on an annual basis by the
IPM working group. Are you able to confirm that there has been an annual review process? I will say
that I've only been here for one year. But since I've been here, we've been reviewing in advance of
an update. So hopefully, we anticipate that update will happen sometime in 2026. Are you able to say
whether that update includes any update
recommendations or allowances for the use of glyphosate? I'm not able to say that at this point. Yeah,
I'm sorry about that. I'm also curious if you're able to comment on have you received any input from
the public at parks board meetings or environmental resources advisory council meetings? Just curious
about like
If there's been input, what the level has been in the past year? In the past year, I will say no. That
does not mean that that has not happened or that other areas within the operations division or within
parks as a whole have not happened historically. OK. And then just one more. Sorry. Have there been
any requests from the public for records of glyphosate?
applications? I have not gotten any public record requests for Plymouth State applications. That does
not mean it has not happened to date. And I should say at the Environmental Resources Advisory Committee
meeting, what this resolution was discussed, and some members were considering a draft response. And
then one member did say they would like to understand better the city's use or the park's use of Plymouth
State. So that may be on an agenda item during a future meeting.
OK, thank you so much. All right, we've got Tara next. Yeah, I have two, I think, simple questions.
When you do the foliar application, is there also dye included in that to the visual indication of it
in addition to the signage? Yes. For natural resource pesticide applications or herbicide applications,
we are using Indic spray pattern indicator dye when we're spraying as well as
in the cuts from the treatment application. And is that also something that other, like, that MCIRIS,
does MCIRIS also use dye and signage when they apply it in their work? We use dye, just about every
case that I can ever think of. We don't have any land. We work on other people's land. So we abide by
their rules and their policies. And we work with county parks.
whole lot of different places. And there are some who do require the signage and then that happens.
And my other question is, is there currently a mechanism for other than like a public records request
for communicating to the public the volume of any pesticide that's applied within your department or
more broadly within the city by the city parks department?
are not indicating the volume in the current application reporting. We're including the product, the
active ingredient, and various other information, whether it's aquatic label or not. But currently,
the volume is not in the public portal that we've created. All right, Matt, over to you.
First of all, thank you for all the work that you put into this to make it transparent to the public
as to how this is used in our community. And I apologize for any stress that this might have caused
you. So a couple of questions. One, I brought this up because of President Trump's executive order about
protecting production of and providing meat for glyphosate. What is your opinion on that? Is that something
you support, something that you don't support?
I don't think I'm able to comment on that at this time based on my representation. OK. I'd rather let
the market decide that that's just me. I mean, I see that our current agricultural system is incredibly
dependent upon like the state. That said, chemical companies are now developing other chemicals for
GMO crops like dicamba. Dicamba is so much worse.
and the incredible damage that we've seen, because that camber drifts. Everybody knows it drifts. They
went into it saying, well, it's a new non-drift formulation, and it requires a special nozzle on farmer's
equipment. Farmers didn't buy the nozzle. There are lawsuits all over the country because of that. Glyphosate
doesn't drift as much as just about any other chemical.
And while I don't see needing the government to step in and protect glyphosate, I am also well aware
that if it went away because of continued lawsuits, we would be stuck with much worse chemicals. And
so it's kind of a conundrum. So that's sort of a mixed up response, but that's what's in my head. And
then the other question was, there was the Williams Crows and Monroe glyphosate safety review. That
was ghost written.
now been proven as ghost written by Monsanto employees. OK, so how can you trust the science that is
coming out from these companies? And when there's science that opposes it, a lot of times those scientists
disappear or bad things happen. So I just, because in this letter you say that glyphosate is a herbicide
which does not affect the environment.
As much as something else goes, it quickly breaks down more quickly. Maybe it does break down more quickly,
but the fact of the matter is there's signs that shows that it doesn't, and that it is destroying the
microorganisms in the soil. And you look at all of our farmland, which is obviously not what we're discussing
here, but we don't have soil. Soil is alive. We've got dirt, which is just a placeholder.
and then fertilizer runoff and all this other stuff because you've dealt with glyphosate on a much larger
scale than most folks. And so I also brought this up because at the Blue Team Community Orchard, I saw
a sign and I loved that I saw the sign. They sprayed right on the edge of the road. And I'm thinking,
was that really necessary? Could something else have been done, then spray that right next to the next
to the community orchard. So with all that being said, what is your opinion of the science that
has been said to be true, but has been now proven to be ghostwritten by the company that sells the product.
I'll say that is really disturbing. That is one study. And given the conflict of interest that was present
with the authors, I think that you basically have to say we can't argue that study. There are hundreds,
if not thousands, of other studies. There are incredible studies that have been done. Glyphosate is
by far the most studied herbicide in the world.
compared to any other out there, Triclopyr, Mesopyr, Pliclorum, glyphosate is the one they focus on
because it has been such a workhorse of an herbicide, and it's so greatly used. I think you have to
carefully evaluate the author's potential for conflict of interest. But from what I have seen from all
of the work that's been done,
Thus far, there have been no good studies that have shown significant harm to humans and applicators
and used according to label directions compared to all the other possible herbicides out there. It's
the safest we've got. OK. So I guess my concern is that it's the default.
might get used too much when there's other options. So I guess what's that trigger where it says that
we're going to use glyphosate because it's our default versus saying we should use something else. So
I'm just concerned about an overuse because it is the easiest thing. It's what you have on the shelf.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I see that. I think that there are now, at this point, decades of experience by land
managers saying,
what works on this invasive species. And again, we're just talking about natural areas management and
invasive species control, and knowing which chemicals do work and which don't. And there are some species
that glyphosate may not be the most effective, and you end up saying, nope, we're going to have to use
amazapyr. But every time we do that, every time we say, no, put the glyphosate on the shelf and we're
going to use amazapyr,
We take a big breath because they are more dangerous to the applicator. They will move more in the soil.
And they will have longer residence time in the soil. And we don't like that. That's just a much heavier
hit on the environment and potentially the applicator. And so that's why it tends to be the front line,
because we believe it's the most safest and most effective. And when we have to go to other chemicals,
then it's time where
you have to really read that warning label because it gets much more dangerous. Thank you. All right.
Is there anyone who hasn't asked a question? Is that OK? Yeah. Perfect. OK. Thank you. And so I appreciate
the last comments you had about that. There's a lot of depth that you guys have looked at in the research
about glyphosate. I'm sort of very amateur at understanding these things.
I'll ask amateur questions though, just in case you can probably rebut this pretty quickly. But I'm
thinking about, assuming what you're saying is correct. I'm also looking at what a lot of people use
these sort of chemicals do is they're not really focused as much on the soil, sort of microbiology.
It really doesn't seem to be in my experience. And I'm looking at, okay, you have,
soil microbiology, if a chemical like this could potentially target very specific microbes, but not
target others, right? Same thing, they were talking about one of the potential impacts on using glyphosate
for bees, not because it hurts the bees directly, because microbiology of their stomach and other things.
And I'm just wondering,
if it's safe and effective, is there any possibility out there that we're, through the use of this chemical,
we're creating the type of environment that is perfect for an invasive because it's set up for an imbalance
in the ecosystem. Can I take that? So we had a weed wrangle that last Saturday
Saturday before at Lower Cascades. It's one of our favorite places. And so every month for, I don't
know how many years it's been now, how many years has it been? Seven? We're there every month. And so
we've gotten to see the changes over time. And what I was boggled by was we're at peak flower right
now. As a botanist, this is the best time of year for me. And if you stand at the Sycamore Shelter and
you look across the road
you will see a very, very steep slope, and it is covered 100% with Asian bush honeysuckle. And under
that honeysuckle is just bare and eroding. There's nothing, because it's so shady. Nothing is going
to grow under there. On the other side of the shelter, it is this slope that is alive. The bush honeysuckle
has been cut and painted by volunteers. It's clear of the shrubs.
And the Cascades has just one of the best wildflower displays we've got in Bloomington. And so two weeks
ago, it was just buzzing with pollinators. This whole slope is gorgeous, and I'm taking pictures. And
the bottom line is that slope that is covered with Asian bichonisuckle was completely cleared by volunteers
six years ago during COVID. They climbed up that slope.
like mountain goats. But they didn't use glyphosate. And every one of those shrubs is now approaching
10 feet tall. And we've got nothing. The site is essentially dead and eroding. Where we use glyphosate
on the stumps, it's alive. The bees are buzzing. The butterflies and tiger swallowtails were out. I
feel confident from what I've seen with the treatments we've done that we have made the environment
healthier. We've made it more biodiverse.
better. And I look for, you know, whatever research comes out and see what we can learn from it. But
from what I've seen with my own eyes, we've improved the environment with the use of glyphosate.
Thank you. I would add to that, that there's, you know, we're honeysuckle suppressing native biota or
flora, and it also has these
Allelopathic, where they prevent native plants from growing. Other invasives also change the soil, maybe
even more so than light as they would. So we have autumn olive, which is a nitrogen fixer. It is a gateway
for other invasives. So if we leave autumn olive, we've completely displaced the plant community. There's
that to consider as well. So I had Ross next. Is this like a direct follow-up? This is actually just
a correct response to the question here. It's quite rare, really. To answer your direct question,
Yes, any kind of input, particularly on agricultural scales, does produce an arms race with invasive
weed species, however you want to describe it. That is strictly correct and universally observable.
The problem that I think we're facing here is a question of difference in terms of arena of application
and effect. So if we're talking about targeted painting on a hillside of honeysuckle roots,
it's different than the kind of volumes of life-saving sprayed in agricultural fields around the globe
as the number one agent. So it does do that, but I think what we're talking about at this scale is these
are kind of apples and oranges, and that's sort of at the root of some thorny questions here, I think.
I appreciate that. That's one of the takeaways I got. In certain cases, applications, you actually get
more diversity and a better health of the environment
if it's applied in a specific way. All right, let's go to Ross. Okay. First of all, I just want to thank
you both for coming today. I think you guys have done great work. I have a question for Mary. So you
were talking about like over half of the applications have been for cut stump, but that is for the natural
resources department, right? So, or the parks department as a whole? Within the operations division.
Okay. So we're talking everything from like,
Griffey, switchyard, native plantings, also like sports fields. Operations division does not cover sports
management. That's what I was wondering because I feel like from what I understand this is a very useful
tool for the native habitat restoration and what I haven't really learned much through this discussion
is how much this is being used on
the Cascades Golf Course, Twin Lakes, stuff like that. And that's where my concern really with this
would lie, is are we using this a lot for fence row management and stuff like that, rather than are
we using it for native species or habitat restoration, where I think it is an invaluable tool. So I
thank you for coming. I wish you could speak more about that. That's, I guess, my question that has
been left unanswered is,
how much, and comparative to how much you guys are using, what they're using and where it's going to
and for what, so. Perfect, okay, we've got Councilor Barallo on Zoom with his hand up. Go ahead, Councilor
Barallo. Thank you. This has been a very good discussion. I think there's a lot of points of agreement
regarding the question about where it's used.
And there were 16 gallons of glyphosate that were used by the city of Bloomington. And seven of those
were used for natural resources. So presumably then to treat non-native invasive plants. So the other
nine gallons went to uses such as fence rows and
around ball fields and I think he used the Cascades Gau of course and so forth. But I think you know
being an organic farmer for a while the farms around me were spraying like say I think on the order
of a quarter to a half a gallon per acre so the farm across the street for instance
as the entire city of Bloomington on its fields. So just as a matter of perspective, I think that maybe
this goes into deliberation. So maybe I should hold back, Justin. But maybe we could, if the sponsor
of this resolution were interested, Matt, we might consider or you might consider amending it.
might consider amending it to say that the Commission supports the minimal use of glyphosate and then
you know maybe parenthetically for purposes of invasive and non-native species control because that
would you know that would allow the activities say a griffey or
and which is the best choice, I think, in my mind. But it sends an instruction that it needs to be kept
at a minimum. I'm just putting that out there. And that's all I've got to say right now. Thank you.
Thank you. I've got one quick question, and then we can do round two. My question is answered. OK, perfect.
So I'll go, and then Alex. OK.
So question for both of you, maybe Allen first, if you could just speak a little bit about sort of the
scope of the invasive species problem in Bloomington. How severe is it? How much work has to be done
or sort of to battle it? Are you gaining ground or is it kind of just holding the line for now? And
then to Mary, if glyphosate were to be taken off the table, what would that look like operationally
for parks and recreation? What would that do in terms of cost, labor, things like fuel use, and stuff
like that if you had to rely on other options? Thanks for the questions. And just in general, these
have been awesome questions. The situation in Bloomington is pretty comparable to other urban areas
in Indiana, because it tends to be urban areas that have most of the invasive species problem.
for the not surprising reason that that's where the landscaping is. And better than 90% of our invasive
species are landscaping species. And we differ on some. We have the worst lesser salindine problem in
the state, as far as I can tell. Indianapolis is not great, but boy, do we have a lot. Jackson Creek
is just covered.
And that's different than other places. And it's just historical. Somebody brought it in, and then everybody
saw the pretty yellow flowers and moved it to their yard. So there's some variety. Are we making progress?
Well, MCRIs is 17 years old now. And we think we are making progress landowner by landowner. Our whole
goal is to.
have landowners feel enabled to deal with this problem, to be able to go to their yard and know what
they've got and be able to control it. And so we give free invasive surveys. We've done a couple of
hundred of those. And each person tells their friends. And we have sort of little nodes of neighborhoods.
We had about 16 neighborhoods that have reached out that we've helped organize.
hand developed a special grant for invasive species control if you can get your neighbors to work with
you on it. And so we see progress. We see a lot of progress on parks and recreation land. And so I think
we are headed the right direction. There's a lot more just people aware of the issue, just people here
I can tell are aware of invasives and you know why this is an important issue. So I think we're making progress.
Yeah, and I'll even say the awareness of invasive species has grown exponentially in their work.
But yeah, the reality is, from a natural resources perspective and for other areas and divisions within
parks, without, like I said, we'd be using a lot more labor, a lot more potentially more harmful chemical
options. We'd be using more fossil fuels.
especially with our contractors, we contract a lot of mowing. We're trying to take land out of mowing
and restore it into these beneficial systems that are emulating a natural system that are supporting
pollinators, supporting all sorts of migratory birds and other types of wildlife, beneficial insects,
you name it. And so I just anticipate that without the ability to draw upon glyphosate as a tool,
And which isn't always the right tool, but as a part of our integrated pest management plan, it is an
important tool. Without it, we would be using alternatives that are less effective, maybe doing more
soil disturbance, which arguably, in my opinion, is the greater harm. I will also say, just to celebrate,
as of last year, Bloomington is a city USA.
As we go into our new ICAM plan, including pollinator protections into that, it's also a boulevard.
So to tie into the city, I think. And kudos to Joanna for also making that possible. Thank you very
much. Alex? Well, my first question was her question to Mary. So I guess the other question I have is,
I've been in an operations role where I dispatch people out to the field.
what you tell people to do and what actually happens do not always align. So I'm a little, you know,
if the integrated pest management does not say we should use glycophysate, but that somebody is out
in the field and they get there and they're like, you know what would be really easy? Just brag and
say like, is there a concern that that is happening? Is that strictly controlled?
We know it's not happening. Can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, I'd love to celebrate our staff
who are well-trained and knowledgeable. It's not required by law for our applicators to be certified
pesticide applicators, but they are. So our pesticide applicators are public applicators within the
operations division. And I believe within, I can't speak to other areas, but I believe in our divisions.
So they are trained.
They have that certification, which is stringent. We have multiple categories of applicators. So we
have people that are ornamental. We have people that are industrial right-of-way weed management. We
have people that are forestry specialists. There's hope to get someone back under the aquatic label
for categories. So all those things are important to us. Our contractors are required to have them.
So even if we are not applying internally and we hire a contractor, they are required to, by law, because
they're doing it for pay, to be OASC, or Office of the Indiana State Chemist Pesticide Applicators,
certified. And we do internal refresher training. And some of my staff just stay up at night reading
pesticide labels.
to better understand. I literally brag on that all day long. They care. They want to make sure they're
using it. We stay on top of research, and we go to conferences, and we just try to stay up to date on
our use of pesticides and glycophagic, and just weighing all the pros and cons, and making decisions,
and changing how we work on a daily basis. And to be clear,
because Mother Raul's comment on kind of the division of how much we use where you don't know
that information from like a current standpoint. I cannot say that this meeting, but we can provide
that information upon request. Absolutely. I would find that. And I would say just to clarify
that occasionally we are using herbicide or other glyphosate for native species control, ragweed, or
if we have a
early successional pollinator planting that we want to keep a pollinator planting, we have to keep some
undesirable woody vegetation out of that system. So occasionally it's used on native plants based on
the goal of the habitat management goal. All right. Any further questions? Yeah. Just a few to wrap
up. So thank you very much for your commentary and your answers, because this is a really complicated
topic that the issue of chemical inputs in general is thorny and complex. Practically speaking, two
interrelated questions that I would be happy to hear either of you respond to. In terms of application,
the medium of application, if there were limits on how you can apply, what, if any, impact would this
have on your overall species management goals?
So put it this way, if you're painting instead of spraying, would that severely hamper or be onerous
in some particular way? So second question related to this would be, why would it matter how you are
applying these things? Well, the question is, as you've pointed out, glyphosate is a broad spectrum.
It's a very potent tool, and part of the question
Part of the issues related to that are A, public health questions about it being a carcinogen, and B,
the other question that hasn't been raised that I'm interested in maybe us bringing to the picture here
is its broader ecological impacts, not just on flora, which we know is its target, but fauna. So you
are an expert in pollinators, and I expect you have quite a bit of experience in the sort of breadth
of pollinators as well.
What kind of impact, if any, does the, again, compared to, 17 gallons is nothing, just simply nothing
for, what's the total area we're talking about? 2000, I'm not saying we sprayed on every acre. We're
talking city area, not county area, correct? City, we're managing 2,342 acres of parks property.
Please note that other people may be using what you say outside of parks. But I mean, just, you know,
I have expertise in the political ecology of agriculture. And 17 gallons is just, the issue is really
agriculture in my mind. But it doesn't mean that there aren't potential impacts. And so I'm interested
just to reiterate this in a succinct way. How would limiting the delivery affect you, if at all, and be
Would that have positive, would a limitation on spraying, for instance, have positive effects in terms
of fauna, you know, pollinators, insects, other kinds of creatures that glyphosate might be harming
outside of the question of plants? I can speak to that, and hopefully Ellen, please, if you have anything
additional to add. Well, I just want to give an example. Over the last two years, our internal staff
have used a combination of cut stump and foliar application on invasive woody
in the state-dedicated nature portion of Griffey, which is Griffey Woods Nature Preserve, they've cleared
40 acres of honeysuckle. And a lot of that was cut stumped, but we're not done. So we've cleared the
first wave. If we didn't have foliar spray to come back in and treat, we'd have to wait for that to
grow back up till it was easy enough to cut and then start all over.
So is foliar used on saplings? Well, foliar will be used on re-sprouts, which is most likely going to
happen, even if you cut stump or you've got some smaller new growth. The seed source doesn't go away.
It comes in from outside neighbor areas, burning bush, autumn olive, honeysuckle. All of that is coming
in from the land surrounding the rift, which is, I'd say, most between the IU land and us that are very
privately owned.
not as managed as we're attempting to do at Griffey. So that's just an example. I could speak to it
on a case-by-case basis. And then I'll also just mention things like Japanese soil grass. We use it
at very low rates, and especially in areas where it's near water or where there's potential for runoff
into surface water. We're using aquatic label formulations. So we normally would be using a grass-specific
formulation that's very targeted.
But in the areas where we have sensitive sites, we need to dial in on the very low concentration that
barely harms even our native raminoids and keeps something on the ground. And we're able to keep it
out of areas, though there are some areas that it's just, it's almost, yeah, it's a hard thing to watch
as it continues to spread throughout our county. I think that's all I've got. Oh, and I will say,
That method of reducing the size of vegetation is one of our ways to reduce impacts on pollinators and
beneficial insects and other organisms. We're reducing the size. Theoretically, we're doing everything
we can to not spray when we've got flowers, when pollinators are active in the area. So we're picking
times of day, times of year when pollinators and beneficials are not active to reduce the amount of harm
on those systems when we're spraying a foliar application. Last very quick question, just to resolve
some of the questions I have in regard to sources. You very generously provided some sources in your
letter to us. And I found that very helpful. Is it possible to attach, as like an exhibit or something
along those lines, something informative in terms of like a bibliography of studies that are
supporting or expressing these kinds of positions regarding public health questions, regarding volunteer
questions, et cetera. Yes. Thank you. Perfect.
All right. Well, yes, we are coming up at the end of the meeting. So I think we'll end the Q&A session
there. I want to thank our guests again for joining us tonight. This has been really helpful for me.
I think everyone got a lot out of that. So thank you very much. Really appreciate you taking the time
to be here. Thank you for giving us the opportunity. We appreciate you. Great questions. All right.
So that brings us to the deliberation point. So I just want to make a quick note about procedural stuff
here, especially since we're coming up at the time limit.
We're probably not gonna have enough time to talk through all this stuff. There's a couple things that
we can do. So now would be the time to do the motion and the second, and that opens up for deliberation.
At that point, we could choose to postpone this definitely, which means we pick a specific date in the
future that we're going to come back to this and go through the discussion again, just like we would
have today. We could postpone indefinitely, which means we don't set a future date and it basically
never comes back on its own. That effectively would kill it, but that's a procedural option people should
know about.
Those are the two big ones. Any questions about the procedure before we move on? OK. In that case, I'll
ask for a motion and a second to consider resolution 2026-04 for adoption. Motion to consider the resolution
for adoption. OK, there's a motion. Is there a second? Seconded. OK, there's a second. So now we're
in the deliberation stage. This is where we just generally discuss. We bring up any amendments that
exist out there. I know Alex has one in the pipeline for or against.
Zach. Oh, I'm sorry, Zach. Zach does. Yeah, go ahead, Councilmember Morrell. Oh, I'm sorry. I don't
mean to interrupt. You haven't seen that there's an amendment that's proposed? Yes. Yeah, it's in the
packet materials. But Tara, did you have a? Well, is this where we would move to postpone it? It is.
OK, I move that we postpone the deliberation to the May meeting. I second that.
Okay, so there's a motion and a second to postpone until our next regular meeting, which is in May,
and there's a second. Is there any discussion about that postponement? Can we not add 30 minutes to
our meeting one time? That's subject to the availability of staff. Because we have online people, we're
going to have to do a voice vote to decide whether or not to extend the meeting. How's that relevant?
We're gonna run out of time. Okay. Yeah, so let me just I'll just do a quick. Is there anyone that could
not stay? some extra time I'm not cannot say 30 minutes. Yeah, I can't say pass 730 15 minutes. How's
that sound for everybody? And we went we went 40 minutes over our allotted time for the convert for
the experts. I don't know that we
15 minutes. It's not sufficient. I mean, we probably still have to post, but it's probably going to
be a lot of discussion. So Alex. I think that we could have some discussion in the deliberation about
postponing of that could be targeted about what we want to hear when we move it. So like a brief mini
discussion and we should probably have a vote to accept the meeting at this point. Okay.
Well, we're probably going to have to, just because we have to deal with these other open motions. So
there's a motion to extend by how long? Motion to extend the meeting by 15 minutes. By 15 minutes. In
a second? Second. Okay. All right. So we'll go through the roll call vote to extend to 745. Tara? Yes.
Yes. Justin? Yes. Matt? Yes. Yes. Christopher? Yes. Yes. Zach? Yes. Yes. Councilmember Rallo?
Yes. Yes. Um, Quentin. Yes. Yes. Alex. Yes. Yes. Maria. Yes. Yes. Shanghai is not here. Um, Diana, I
think she, did she jump off? I think so. I think she, yeah, she was coming in and out. Sure. Ross. Yes.
Yes. Okay. Um, we are extended to, uh, 7 45. Um, we do have, so that brings us back to our active motion
on postponing definitely until the,
uh, May regular meeting. So I'll open up the floor for discussion on that postponement. Uh, I support
this postponement, um, for that May meeting. I would really like to see, I have a core sense of the
city's total use of Lexington safe. Um, I would like to have a better idea of how much in 2026 we are applying
I support postponing the meeting. And I also am curious, I very much appreciate the time of our experts,
but since they were both from the same side, I wonder if it would be beneficial to invite someone, an
outside expert of the opposing view for the commission to ask questions too. I am a little unclear
procedure, which is part of my issue here. So I agree with postponing. My question is there was quite
a lot of material raised, a lot of meaningful questions, a lot of meaningful points. Is the procedure
that we would at the next meeting discuss and then have to vote on like up or down on this? Or like
what are the opportunities to actually chew over some of the meaningful and not simple content of what
we've talked
Yeah, so if we postpone, definitely as has been proposed, then at the next meeting, this would be another
agenda item, just like it is now. And if we did want to do another Q&A, we could, of course, do it in
the same format we have here. Otherwise, we would just ask for a motion in a second to bring it up for
adoption, like we just did. And then we would discuss. And that would also be the opportunity during
deliberation to bring amendments forward. Right. Right. We wanted to change it. Yeah. So over that next
month, we would be able to take what we heard from today
propose any new amendments. Right. You have to move to adopt. You have to do a yay to adopt. And then
you'd have an opportunity to deliberate and propose amendments. Yeah, just a motion in a second. And
then that gives us the opportunity to deliberate. It's a motion to consider it for adoption. Yeah. So
it's a motion to like, yes, we're voting that we want to vote. Yeah. And then there are nested votes
within that for any changes that we want to make. How exciting. Yeah. Robert's rules. It's good stuff.
I love your remarks.
don't support postponing. I think we need to be more flexible about time. I think we only meet once
per month. We have an ambitious agenda of things set up. I think we should stay later and just get this
knock out of the park. But that's my opinion. Do you feel like we have enough time to just stay? I think
we just stay until it's done is what I would do. But anyway, that's my two cents. Quentin. Well, I support
postponing, understanding people may
the, I guess where I come, I'm coming from it is I'm, I'm, I feel like it is as far as within the city
sort of boundaries, but it could be argued that there might be more, you know, higher, you know, importance,
uh, things that we could focus on. However, this is, we're talking about toxic chemicals widespread
all over the place. And I'm thinking about, okay, what if, you know,
What if the real value that can be had here is sort of sending that market signal, that buzz, that doing
something here makes a change and gets other people in cities across the country or other places interested?
So I guess that's where I'm left at. It's sort of like, it is what it is here, but could we use this
to do something bigger? OK. Yep. Tara? So it's by motion, but I actually
think that we probably could. I would feel comfortable voting on it, because I feel comfortable saying
no, because I don't think this addresses what the actual issue is. And I don't feel comfortable putting
my name on this resolution as it currently stands, because it lacks citations, and it's not clear what
it's actually trying to do. It's mostly without covering things that are not within the city's jurisdiction
that are the issue.
That said, I think with everything that we've learned today, I think there's an opportunity for some
good amendments to say something else about test management and application and the way it's used outside
of the city's jurisdiction and what we want to say about that, which is why I proposed postponing. Gotcha.
OK. Anyone else with thoughts about the decision to postpone this to the next meeting?
Then we'll go to a roll call vote. So this is a vote to postpone the consideration of this resolution
until our May regular business meeting. Yes. To clarify, so there was a motion to proceed with deliberation.
You can't postpone it until you voted to consider it, and then you can postpone. Right. So wouldn't
you do the vote first for the consideration then?
We've had a motion and a second for the consideration, and so that's what brought us into deliberation
about it. You don't have to vote on that part. Voting web yes or no, adopt it. It's a series of nested
things, and then you have to deal with the nested things. You can't postpone it until you've done the
motion to consider it.
I just wanted to make sure we were in proper order. There you go. All right, any further discussion
on the decision to postpone this until the next meeting? Okay, then we'll go to a vote on that. Tara?
Yes. Yes to postpone. Justin, I will abstain among the fans. Matt? Abstain. Abstain. Christopher? Yay. Yay.
Zach? No. No. Councilmember Rallo? Sure, yeah. Yep. Quentin? Yeah. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Maria? Yes.
Yes. Shanghai is not on. Diana, is she on? Nope. Okay. And Ross? Yes. Yes. Okay. One, two, three, four,
five, six, seven. Yays. Two abstentions and one no. So, yes.
passes, and we will reconsider this at our next meeting. And in the meantime, folks can think about
amendments that they might want to offer. If anyone has any ideas of other guests that we might want
to bring in to address the commission, please let me know, and we'll try to get something like that
arranged. Sure. There is a little bit of confusion out there. I did receive an email asking that if
this commission passed this resolution, would the city of Bloomington automatically ban
the substance and the answer is no. This is an advisory session. It's only advisory. You're giving advice
to city council. Thank you for saying that. That's right. We can only make recommendations. Nobody has
to listen to it. That's right. Okay. Councilor Rurallo. Yeah, I just wanted to alert everybody. I sent
that data from 2015 to everybody's email account and it's a lengthy list of chemicals
It's not only glyphosate that's applied, it's a lot of other things, so you might have a look at that
before we continue to the discussion. And I'll try to get an updated, I'll request an updated list from
the Parks and Recs director. Councilmember Rallo, if you get that list from the Parks and Recs director,
will that only be Parks and Recs use of it though? Actually, I think it was citywide.
It was actually, I think it was the, I got from the deputy mayor at the time in 2015. And I think that
was sitting wide, but it's a good question. I mean, I see that it's used for various parks golf course.
If you, if you open it up, it's an Excel spreadsheet and then natural resources use. I don't know if
it's used for maybe by public works somewhere, you know, for sidewalks and things like that.
I want to find out. I'd also just encourage all the commissioners to review before next meeting to review
the integrated pest management plan. And just to make sure that whatever form of this resolution, is
it redundant or doesn't recommend things that are actually already in here? And knowing that they're
working on an updated version and any resolution could make
A question on logistics for next meeting. Does this take precedence over, will this be top of the agenda
again? Is that, that's my, I have a, I had two other. Yeah, we've got a backlog now. It doesn't have
to be. I mean, the ones for first reading come first naturally, so we don't necessarily have to move
that next time. And I have the Kirkwood one, which the program, if they were to restart it, which I
don't think I'm going to, but if they were going to, it would have been in May, which means it's too
late. Oh, fair point.
Yeah, we have some latitude there in terms of how we order the individual ones. Absolutely. Okay. So
we are done with that resolution for today. Now, since we are already over time, I'm going to make a
motion that we just adjourn and everything that we didn't get to today will be put off until the next
meeting. So next meeting should be a good busy one as well.
So I'll make that motion. Is there a second? Second. OK. There's a motion and a second to end the meeting,
to adjourn. Any discussion? Are there any member comments? Sorry? Any member announcements? Oh, no.
This is a motion to just end the meeting. Why did you have something? No. OK. Just to thank everybody
who's involved in coordinating the experts. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you, everybody
who participated tonight.
One quick question. How long would it have taken for us to get through the proposed resolutions in terms
of moving them forward? Five minutes. Yeah, sort of. We have five minutes. There's going to be a backlog
anyway with this plus the other person. We've created a backlog by going too slow on this. It's okay.
It's not the other way around. Yeah, that's a good point. We could have just done the first reading
once real quick. It's okay. All right.
Yep. Okay. All right. So this is a vote to adjourn the meeting. Tara? Yes. Yes. Justin? Yes. Matt? Yes.
Yes. Christopher? Sure. Sure. Zach? I don't know. I think we should move on. No. Councilmember Rallo?
Yeah. Yes. Quentin? Yes. Yes. Alex? Yes. Yes. Marina? Yes. Yes. Shanghai is not here. Diana is not here.
And Roth? Yes.
Yes, okay. That's one no and the rest are yes. So we stand adjourned at 742. I want to remind everyone
that our next meeting is a special meeting later this month. The announcement will go out about that
soon. Ordinary booths will not be entertained. That's correct. This will be a special meeting that we
won't vote on anything. All we'll be doing is receiving this information. Thank you everybody.