Okay, well, it is officially at 6.03, a nice leisurely start to our July meetings, July 16th.
And here we are, Maryland Commission, ready to talk some summertime stuff. So we can kick off with a
roll call, Jack, if you wouldn't mind. All right. I'm here. Brown? Here. Colby? Here. Geyser? Here.
And Martinez? Here. Thank you.
Yes, here. Thank you. As far as the documents for this evening, I am pulling it up, but we should first
go ahead and approve our July agenda. I just need a motion and a second. Move that we approve our July
agenda. Second. Nice. Great.
Are you ready for a vote? Okay. Brown. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Yes. Thank you.
All right. And then the next item is the June 11th minutes. So we're presuming that everyone had a chance
to review them. We're open to voting for them unless anybody has any commentary they'd like to make for them.
Move that we approve June's minutes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yes, thank you. Perfect. Okay. Well, we're the part of our meeting tonight where we're open to public
comment. Um, I know that we've got, um, well, we've got in one individual joining us remotely. So you
are welcome to, um, introduce yourself, say hello or, um,
Or we can address your question, which is, there are no meeting materials published for either June
or July. Good evening. I'm sorry, I didn't realize I couldn't move myself. I raised my hand. Oh, sure.
No, that's great. All right, great. My name is Eric Ost, and I originally was going to attend this meeting
to just follow along and see what you folks are talking about. Since I got your attention, I was curious
if you had previously discussed the
the petition that appeared before the Plan Commission for the development at 2511 North Dunn. And so
in endeavoring to research that, I looked for prior meeting materials and I did not see a packet posted
for June 11th on the Environmental Commission onboard site. And let me just double check to make sure
I didn't miss it.
Um, no, there's nothing there. And then there's also nothing there for today's July 16th, 6 PM meeting.
Sure. Well, thanks for checking on that. Um, the first one. Oh, go ahead. First meeting. We actually
canceled that one. So there was no materials to, to, um, post on that one on June 11th, June 11th. Okay.
All right. That, that explains it. Cause there's no recording for it either. So that, that makes sense.
Yeah. Thank you.
Sure. And then as far as the... I messed that up right now. Gotcha. And we're working, our liaison for
this commission is on personal leave right now. And so we have a wonderful member of the department
volunteering to help us with our meetings in the meantime. Is that Jackie? Yes. So Jackie, yeah, I don't
see it on the website. I'm refreshing that.
Okay, I'm refreshing And then so but my general question if I was going to ask one this evening is is
there a process whereby Petitions that are for development that are going to be sent to they'd be routed
through of course planning and transportation and maybe there's permits that are requested from Murnau
County Building Department, but does the Environmental Commission receive a
you know, notice, timely notice of these, and are you able to review materials and possibly provide
recommendations or ask follow-up questions for those petitions before they're approved? That's my question.
Thank you. Yeah, that's a great question, and that's definitely something that we have done over the
years and have recently resumed. I'm actually, I can feel Matt Haldy, my fellow commissioner,
I'm chomping at the bit to chime in because he's followed the planning commission pretty closely, including
this development, which is one that's been on our radar for a bit. So Matt, do you want to? Yes.
So again, everything is a little bit different with our regular liaison on leave, but we are typically
given a heads up about anything going before the BZA or the planning commission if it involves sensitive
environmental features.
Also, a number of us individually are just on the city list where we see those agendas and petitions
ahead of time, so we can also scout for any that are relevant to our expertise here. We became aware
of the 2511 North Don one. I want to say back in January when it first went up before it was revised,
we discussed it some, a letter was sent to us by a member of the public,
Ultimately, we decided not to write a memo, though we have written memos before and we are capable.
We just, we stayed out of this one. Did you, so Ms. Johnson is your liaison? Correct. I believe she
also was the staff who was mentioned at the planning commission meeting as having visited the site.
And I'm curious, did any members of the commission go with her to visit the site?
No, that was done independent of us. That was through her function there with the city. I heard she
had two visits and designated that it was not a wetland, but we were not involved in a site visit. Did
you get a report back from her at one of your meetings? Regarding that, no, we did not. But again, I'm
not sure how that lined up with her going on leave prior to this second going to the
petitioner going before the planning commission. So it might've just been unlucky timing that we weren't
sure. But yeah, I was just following up. You said that you had discussed it and decided not to send
a memo or anything. I'm just curious what evidence you considered in terms of not doing that. And that
her report might be one of those things. But I'm just more wondering about the general process. And
I think you or your other, your other, your fellow member said that there is a,
normal process whereby you do receive notice and formally and you're able to. Okay. All right. Good.
Thank you. Yeah. And this is something that I think as a member of a public coming in to chat with us,
that's something that we're really open to as new developments or variances are requested.
that as they do have environmental implications to them, that's something that it is on our liaison's
radar, it is on our radar, as we're able to stay in the loop for those petitions coming through, that
we do want to be mindful of what is happening and where there are areas that we might want
to put recommendations in whatever direction in front of the Planning Commission or BCA or whomever.
So yeah, I appreciate you asking. Are there any other thoughts that you were having or wanting to share
with us while we got you?
Well, I'd like to follow up on this. I mean, use it as a case example. I just like to learn more about
what kind of metrics you're tracking and whether there's any aggregate tracking. I mean, even if you
don't write a memo, I'm wondering what kind of metrics you follow in terms of development, especially
development that is in this case, I believe it was Greenfield.
I mean, of course, it was that was all clear cut at one point, but I'm just it's there's no structures
on it now. I'm just wondering how you follow along because one development impacts others as well.
You know, they're not isolated. So, you know, but I'll follow up with you later. Appreciate it. Yeah.
And we always welcome letters from members of the public as well, just in case.
we don't get briefed on something or we miss it when we're looking over the agendas of those other bodies.
You're always welcome to chime in at or between meetings. Thank you. That's a great point. The environment
at bloomington.ion.gov goes to our liaison and to the individual covering it. If there's anything that
you want to pass along, that then gets distributed amongst the commission so that we can take a look at it or
decide if we want to have any conversation in between meetings. So you're very welcome to share stuff
as things maintain progress. Great. Well, thanks, Eric. Are there any other members of the public? It
looks like the screen is just note takers and other kinds of supportive technology. So for the folks
in the room, would you care to introduce yourselves?
Most people here are going by now. I think I'm just an asshole. Nothing really diverse to the question
just kind of for today, but yeah. And I'm Zach Anerman. I'm also a Christian on sustainability
and resilience. I was the main author among several others of the bioblution revolution that you guys
are considering. So I'm just here to observe and answer any questions if you have any. Great. Well,
thanks for coming. Great to have you. All right.
All right, well, then I believe we can move along to the next item on the agenda then, which is the
report section. So we've got commissioner reports that could include if you're sitting in on any other
commissions meetings, or if you're representing the EC in any other way, or if there's anything that
is not on the agenda, but you would like to talk about, such as,
biodiversity or habitat connectivity or perhaps education and outreach things like that that might just
be themes that you feel like talking about. The first one here is the city committee update and that's
for me that is as you know the city is officially and and IU both have been recognized as the city and
the campus USA and it's it is a
Part of the agreement to be considered obesity is to have an active committee that is represented by
different bodies.
across the area and we are lucky enough to have the Parks Department being kind of that core piece of
it. But part of it is also having the Environmental Commission have some representation on this committee.
There's also folks from like Sycamore Land Trust and the county and all sorts of other great organizations.
Shannon Geith was one of the BCD committee representatives and because she's no longer on the commission,
it would be ideal to have another member of the EC
coming to these meetings, being part of them. I can tell you that we, at this time, meet quarterly,
the second, I think it's the second Thursday of the second week of the second month of the quarter.
So it's consistent, like 9 a.m. on a Thursday. And basically everyone kind of can meet here. You can
also do it remotely. And we talk about just any of the initiatives that the Bee City group is putting together.
There were a ton of things that came out in June as far as doing the bioblitz and the film at the library
and just different activities in town. So it's not a huge lift for an individual, but it's a role that
the EC has in the BCB committee. So I'm going to put that out there in case anyone in this moment will
be interested in even for a single quarter representing the EC in that group. But either way, I'd love
to have you all think about it.
eager to put their name down. It's a great group. It's very low lift, but I'll let y'all think about
that. This is that thing where you just can't make, I'm not going to fall in. All right. It was, I'm
going to open my calendar real quick. I believe it's the second Tuesday of the second month of the quarter.
Okay. I think it was, if nobody's jumping at it, I can maybe swing it remotely. Yeah. And you can usually
can be remote. Yeah. By all means, everyone can sit. Okay. Say what time. Yeah, it's a nine a.m. I think
I'm on the internet. Yep. Okay. It is the second Thursday of the second month of the quarter.
And I was just looking because I didn't see one in my calendar for this quarter, but I suspect they're
just happening. So feel free to let me know. I don't know if I can send you the details, but it's a
great group. And it's kind of another fun little thing to be in touch with not just the city, but with
a bunch of different organizations. We're all really excited about the status and increasing pollinator
protections and things like that. Great. OK, well, that was it for me.
Be city update. Are there any other reports or updates from folks on the commission? Yeah, I can talk
about the tree commission. So, uh, we'll see. The urban forest has been focused pretty heavily on grooming
as a major activity, um, specific the line trail jukebox center. Um,
We have, St. Wilmington has a homeowner assistant program for the trimming removal of trees. And that's
fully subscribed now with about 24 participants. It'll be, you know, getting help from the city and
financial help and printing those trees. Our bicentennial tree planting is ongoing. I think we have
like 325 trees planned for that. So that's really nice. So cowl repairs are going to be removed along
with Eagle Sim.
In addition, there's going to be some ash tree removals and inspections planned. There has been a workshop
announced for how to care for ash trees and special considerations regarding those types of trees for
contractors in the public on August 26th. I'll beat you more details as we get close to that date. Again,
the meeting, next street commission meeting is on Monday.
And then new landscaping is also planned for Westerth Street and College Mall mediums. And this will
involve about 41 trees planted there as well. Canopy, we got a report from Canopy that they've planted
248 trees, which brings, for the month, which brings that 805 total for the year. And as always though,
they're interested in getting more tree tenders or volunteers for their program. So it's essentially
what we got for the tree commission.
Nice. Thanks for attending that. All right. Other folks? Hi. Go on in. Yeah. I watched Picos's meeting.
They had a number of discussions around processes and whatnot. But the main thing accomplished was they
advanced the light pollution resolution to a second reading, as I hope we will do tonight.
Additionally, this feels like a while ago now, but I don't think we've had a meeting since
then. I participated in the CBU's Green Infrastructure Tour along with Adam Fudiger and Heidi Brown.
It was informative and great. So just wanted to put that out there, listen to my reports. Can you describe
what the tour was like a little bit? Yeah, they went to the green roof at, what's the name of that building?
The Forge. I think it's the Forge. Yeah, right by them though.
same kind of park there, but looked at some rain gardens that are like right out of the curbs downtown,
went to Miller Showers. They were, I think, four stops, but basically to show various pieces
of infrastructure and to kind of discuss how things work and how often they have to maintain them, which
was a lot. Every time it rains. Yeah, every time it rains. Some of these things had to be shoveled out
of any of the debris from the street. And then that chuckled out stuff has to be shipped off somewhere.
It's been on our own length of... Yeah, it was very informative. It was the two of you and at a booting
curve. Heidi, what did you think was either interesting or surprising or anything from Mitchell or anything?
It's just the amount of maintenance required to physical labor, shoveling out the
greats the filter greats because they run off as well. From cars, chemicals, dust, or construction sites.
You have to shift that off. You get another step.
Yeah, it's so interesting how we've had different conversations about different ideas that people have
of what we can do in the city. And it does seem like it comes down a lot of the time to love it. How
will we make sure that for the next 20 years, it still works and we've, and we're taking care of it.
So yeah, that's really cool that y'all get to see that. Yeah, they did have kind of an active enforcement
problem going on by Miller showers for their construction site was causing some of the, some of their
infrastructure to
to get real gunked up, so they were actively working that out. Cool. That sounds like it was going to
be really interesting. Was it just environment? Were there just the three of you, or were there people
from other commissions? It wasn't the public, right? No, there were some members of some kind of utility
commission or board. The people that are maintaining the infrastructure. I don't know, 10 to 15 people.
Supervisor.
Well, so is there utility service for me? Yeah, I think there are four of them. Maybe. Okay, thanks
for the update on that. Are there other folks who have reports or updates or things that they'd like
to share as far as Mr. Kauffman points go?
Well, then we're going to keep moving along. I'd like to welcome a member of the public. Hi, we just
did our public comment section, so if you want to say hello or introduce yourself, or if there's anything
here that you're wanting to share in particular, you've got five more minutes to do with it with you.
Hi, I'm Joshua. I actually came because I wanted to comment on that proposal that I read yesterday.
Well, the dark studies. That's one of the things on our agenda, sure. Yeah. So I've actually been doing
my internship project on the street lighting in Wilmington. And one of the pieces of text that I mentioned
about the street lighting inventory, which is the kind of old brand of ramp project. And I think I would
want to point that out specifically, because without that, the project does not seem reasonable.
like cartwheels. Yeah. But yeah. Okay. All right. That's that's great to know. Yeah. Yeah. Because basically,
it's an engine in there. Um that dude has their own inventory on their sheet by repair model and then
the city also has their own but it's like 160 lights and we have like thousands. Yeah. And it is a very very very
complicated situation that street lighting is divided amongst multiple different people in multiple
different departments and it's an often salivated element. I just thought I'd come and offer what I
found out. Yeah, that's perfect. For the folks who are kind of behind some of the language of the resolution,
do you want to chat about that now? I have another thing too.
aspect of that resolution. I forget what the exact thing was, but it mentioned the responsibility of
getting all the utilities. I think it's important to note that Elwood Works is the one who does street
planning. So that would be Cheyenne, Olinda, Nathan, Claire, Kristen, she is retired and she does all
the planning for street planning.
Another important person is Miranda Heber. She, she was building. So I think if we're going to do any
sort of inventory, it's going to have to be from building, unfortunately, because software all the time.
So it's going to be like a backwards inventory. It's going to take a lot of time. Interesting. How far
along are you?
Following along with my inventory inventory. What I've been doing the same as I've been interviewing
staff members and writing a report on the state of the inventory. Okay. What needs to be done? Yes.
So we basically just need an inventory. We just don't have that video. Okay. Which there are, I would
say there's a lot, but every now and then there are discrepancies in building.
or has like work pain or something like that. And, or like, like holes on the surface and stuff like
that. So it's just like, since there isn't a good morning and there's one person going through and doing
it, that's the state of the situation right now. Yeah, I was wondering about the energy portion of it.
Like, yeah, so the lighting today, I'm doing it to talk. Yeah, so the way that works out is that, well,
I don't need to beat that.
essentially these are our street lights from Duke Energy. And like we don't, it's basically like subscription
service, like old timey appliance leasing, but it's on a 10 year scale. So you pay for the lightables
and the lighting fixtures over a 10 year scale. And then the city owns them? The city does not pay for
them. Yeah, the city owns them and maintains them.
And that's one thing that a lot of people don't understand is that we have humor reports and people
submit humor reports about street lighting. Well, they actually need to go to Duke and submit it that
way instead. But there's like Scheinman even does street lighting repair, has to manually go in and
then make those reports herself. And also it's a big guessing game
what a streetlight is, what, because people just don't have that information and they don't have that
information and how are you supposed to put it where it says. So I think that's also the issue with
it as well is that- They're not labeled in any way? Visibly, we don't hold it in this. Yeah. Oh, okay.
Yeah. And then there's like endpoints on the Duke Energy flow, so that you can kind of guess where it
is. But that's not what the platform is.
We looked at a fair amount of information from Duke's site, and I think this will contribute to the
conversation for sure. I think we might have some more info on that as well. Given that we have a lot
of members of the public with interest and expertise in this item, I would move that after staff reports
here, remove the light pollution and dark sky resolution from new business D up to first in new business.
ahead of our idea and action requests. I'll second that. Jack, can we please vote on moving a new business
deal? Thank you. Very considerate of you, Matt. There's still some reports, but we'll get to it soon.
Yes. Martinez? Yes. Heslater? Yes. Owens? Yes. All right. Yes. Brown? Yes. Sinhal? Yes. Thank you.
All right. Are you all OK? Are you able to sit back a little bit more? OK. And thank you all for being
here, too. And you're all welcome to join us at the table when the time comes. It's great to have you
sitting with us while we talk this through. OK, well then. And there's plenty available. You don't have
to do anything. They're just there for you.
Um, okay. Well, then we're going to, to, let's do the next section of the agenda and then we'll be able
to get to that, um, location and competition a little bit. But as far as any, um, items from
the commissioners, nothing else wrapped up while we were chatting. Great. Okay. We've got staff reports
then. Jackie, is there anything that you, um, uh, Rachel's still out and, um, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
So now I'm getting late this week or this month. Um, if,
Thank you to those of you who sent stuff to me. I did try to make those attachments for all accessible,
but we don't technically have to do it until next year, which says practice. I reached out to Jennifer
Crossley about what kind of training everybody else is taking it. Like you guys are basically training
on how to do it in full docs. So we'll let you know as soon as I know. Yeah, I think that's basically
it. Congratulations, we love you. Thank you, Jackie.
And I thought Nidina was going to be here. I don't know if she's here. Maybe she's here. So if you guys
have questions for her, we'll do. Thanks so much. All right. Well then, and it sounds like we're able
to move through the planning and legal then and into the new business. Great. OK. Well, honestly, y'all
are welcome to join us at the table. I'm going to turn this over to Nidina.
This group, yeah, obviously we kind of jumped into another part of the conversation, so feel free to
lead it as you want. We should have a cookie if you want one.
Okay. It's an important role. He's been doing great at it.
Members of the Environmental Commission who have been interested in light pollution have been working
for the past couple months now with the Bloomington Commission on Sustainability and Resiliency. And
basically, the draft in front of us is kind of the product of that. Honestly, Zach, who was here with
us today, put in a lot of work, perhaps even a majority, on this resolution. So we're very, very grateful.
But we're kind of here to entertain any edits or suggestions that people may have. Essentially, the
goal that we've kind of had in mind is to get Blumchen certified with DarkStri to more or less reduce
the amount of light pollution that we're kind of contributing to the environment. This has a lot of
I'm not going to kind of rehash the whole draft, because I don't know if I'll do a good job, and I know
you wouldn't mind about it more. But essentially, it helps pollinators not to have so much light. It
helps animals. It helps us as well. We don't see the stars. It interferes with our REM sleep. And it
would be very nice if we can move toward this. It's kind of my thoughts. But I'm happy to open the floor
to all of you. I wanted to comment real quick about the
kind of unusual nature of how we're doing it. So we're trying to do this joint proposal thing. Our goal,
I think, is for us to talk about this now. And then if we have any questions, comments, concerns, to
address those before we have a future joint move in with both commissions, which hopefully will be smooth.
Yeah. So I think it'd still be of value to any questions or concerns we do have now to discuss them.
And in fact, what we're hoping to do at the end of the discussion is to advance this to a secondary.
And then basically, while both commissions are together in August, entertain amendments then and hopefully
pass the identical versions. So get everything we want to chat about out here, but also between now
and the joint meeting, you can study up and decide if you have more input. And back, I can interrupt.
Will the joint meeting be the second meeting? Yes.
And I think tentatively, that is 18th and 6th PM. Tentatively. Yeah. Well, wait. 15th, two days from
now? August. August. It's all right. It's all right. Reasonable concern. Yeah, 48 hours.
Yeah, so I guess if anyone has questions, comments, or concerns on the introduction or the resolution
itself. Can I just, so just to double check, so this was, I know that you all started working on this
a few months ago, and I know that our commissioners were talking through, was kind of doing some research
and sort of getting a baseline for it. When it came to the resolution, is that, my assumption is that
we basically took sort of the framework that you had laid
reiterated it to a degree? Were there any major changes or have there been overlapping drafts or how
did that come about? I'd be- So I wrote an initial draft. I had no idea you guys had been working on
something as well. So when I met you guys at the Earth Day thing, several of you mentioned that you
had been working on stuff so we should combine. So anyways, I came to the table with the draft already
written and we've gone through several different versions now and updated it substantially since then, I think.
But the base is the thing that I came with and just added tweaks and things. And we've added tons of
whereas clauses and stuff based on research that people have done and tweaked the language a little
bit. I think when I originally came, I had language that was more broad recommendations. And I changed
it into explicit things that we could put directly into the code based on feedback we've had from city
council members that they kind of want that. So the idea is that they can basically just copy and paste
this into the city code if they wanted to. Obviously, they might tweak things if they want to.
But there's a main main changes, I think, listen for getting somewhere. Since we started. Yeah, I think
that I think the version that you have in front of you now is the exact same version that we have that
we have a couple days ago. So we'll look at it from the same point at this stage. And the hope is that
once we get to that during the meeting that people in both sides have
chance to talk through things like that. We can sort of as a group introduce amendments and kind of
two meetings at the same time, one room, right? In terms of voting and stuff like that. And then hopefully
we stay in sync. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Well, obviously we've got the sort of question about the
inventory and how we're thinking about that. And we can definitely jump into that. But do any of the
other commissioners have points from the resolution they'd like to sort of bring up or talk about or
ask questions about?
question that will hopefully be easy. I was looking through like all the line changes to the code and
everything. And what's the difference? What's a fork handle? It's basically a measurement of like
How bright the thing is. It is slightly, it's different from... It's different to Lumens, but you can
convert that. Okay. Yeah. I was just trying to figure out what the difference between like 45 foot candles
and 45 foot candles. You can convert to Lux. Yes. Lux and Lumens is... You got super technical all this
stuff. Lux is Lumens over an area, if I remember. Yeah. It like takes into account, it's the amount
of light hitting a specific area. Okay.
But foot candles is what are used to measure light trespass. So light going from one property into somebody
else's property. Yeah. It's basically a measure of how much light is going. Where it shouldn't. Yeah.
Can you get an app in front to measure it, or do you need a special? Your camera is probably not accurate
enough to get an app. We have light readers, and they'll let you know when. It's already in code now.
There's no need to change. Yeah. And so we already use the light readers to enforce the code cap.
A side question, can citizens use it if they have a question about their neighbors' lighting? I think
they'll learn about it. I'll be able to hold them on Amazon. They're not, I don't know, it's
not a plant-based system. I bought like a kind of cheap one for like $20. It's just the most curious.
Yeah. Do those fit here in women's or like down? Maybe the pen. I think most of you can just look it
up and think which unit it is.
Um, back to the proposal. It's just, uh, most of the recommendations we're going to do at Bloomi can
do specifically. Yeah. And what are your thoughts on, like, involving Duke Energy? I think that they
would obviously have to be a player. As you mentioned, um, 95% of our street lights are known by Duke.
Um, so they would obviously have to be a player, but the city, what I'm essentially proposing we do
is we would add something to our contract with Duke, um, saying you have to set them up in a specific way. Um,
And I mean, they would kind of have to do that. So Duke would obviously be a player and they would need
to be involved in the process at some point. But I think that's further down the road if the city decides
to implement this, we can start those conversations. Yeah. Do you know of any cities that have that
kind of relationship with Duke for their energies? We would be among the largest cities in the United
States to have dark sky community status. There are others.
in primarily in the Southwest that are approximately the same size as, but that's not Duke. So I don't
know what Duke, what the relationship would be to something like this. I mean, I'm just guessing that
they're not gonna wanna lose the entire city of Bloomington as a customer. I mean, they might raise
costs or something. I don't know. I don't know exactly how that might work.
Because we would be the first entity. There's one other tiny town on Lake Michigan called Beverly Shores
that is a dark side community. That's the only other one. I don't have no idea whether they used openers
in there or not. We can maybe reach out to them and see. But like I said, a very small community, yeah.
So I don't know. We'd probably be in uncharted waters a little bit with Duke, at least. Yeah. That is
going to add something. Duke does not like
And then they're contracts, not all like contracts that we receive. The city signs is the same contract
that they would give you as an individual. And a lot of it, a lot of the language in there isn't even
like, it doesn't even follow the law. The IURC imposes certain rules. But another thing, I guess my
biggest concern with that is like getting them to change the language because they just like will not.
So that's one thing I've heard a lot. Like, yes, that's the point.
And if we are going to change streetlights, is that cost going to be on the city? Because if we decide
to change a streetlight, we have to pay for it. If it blows out or it falls over, Duke will pay for
it. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, there will be a cost associated with it. Yeah, yeah. Long-term, I think
our energy costs will go down, though, if we, but. My understanding is that regardless of the contract
we had, Duke still would have to
obey UDO, like the zoning. Yeah. So theoretically changing the zoning laws would produce slight trespass.
They don't still have to follow that? Yeah. So they follow the IORC and then some things they are exempt
from. Okay. So we would have to verify that. And they don't, we don't always agree with that. So then
that becomes an issue. Is that something that is sorted out?
in real time or at the end of 10-year leases? Oh, I think my old minds with it is going to be different
than my personal experience in DPW, but it's more, it's like case by case. Like when they build the
stuff, stuff's here off, but it was like some things they agreed to do, some things they didn't do.
They, in my experience, feel that they very much are. So they're planning both planning and zoning.
Cause you know, state-owned property isn't, other large places have been able to, or other large, um,
sort of maybe utilities or having people tell us to be exempted and they have in some place because
they're affiliated by that person. Your research on safety was interesting. It definitely increased
safety. I feel like that would be one of the main arguments against strategize. I anticipate that being
probably the biggest hurdle we'll have to go across is the public's sort of
signature, but yeah, their public perception that light equals safety, which isn't actually backed up
by, yeah, by science or data or anything. But it's hard to argue that with someone who has a visceral
emotional reaction to something. So how are we going to cross that bridge? That's another bridge we're
going to have to cross at some point. And again, I think that, I mean, it's good for us to consider
it now. It's good for us to consider a lot of this stuff now, but a lot of this stuff I think also can be
I mean, this would ideally go to the city council later. There's going to be a debate at the city council
when it goes there. There'll be more debate after this. And that's when we, I think, are going to need
to have the conversation about how we strategize tackling the notion that light equals safety. And that,
I think, is more the area we could go in. Yeah. Yeah. And I'd also volunteer that it isn't, you know,
we're not waging a war on light. We're waging a war on light that goes up. Yeah.
instruments are properly shielded, so the light is pointed down. If some can be on timers, if some can
be on dimmers, there's a whole bunch of control theoretically we could exert if we have the will to
make these changes up front. It's not about suddenly making scary places dark. It's about making sure
that that light isn't going up and affecting birds and bats.
and everything else. That's a great point because we're not trying to eliminate all light, we're just
trying to direct it to be the most helpful. There is some we would like to dim, there is some we would
like to change the light temperature on, there's a lot we would like to strategically direct, but it
isn't about making Bloomington dark. I love that clarification. I don't know if you wrote about that
in that proposal, but it might elicite some fears initially to have some of that.
And there is something, Dark Skies, on their website somewhere, we found this when we were looking at
this, they had a photo of someone, a garage with a floodlight coming off of it. And with the light on,
you see the light, you see where the light is going. And they show another picture with the light off,
and suddenly there's a man standing back behind the corner that you couldn't see at all. So your eyes
actually adjust to darkness. And when you have really strong differences between darkness and brightness,
it actually makes it harder for you to see things.
But it's hard to make people feel that when they feel that light is safety. So that'll be a challenge
for sure. I do have one thing to add about the safety issue. I think it's good to acknowledge the difference
between safety, between roadway safety and crime. Yeah. Because people can flame those together. Whereas
street lighting
doesn't necessarily affect the crime at all. There's been so many studies done that there's mixed results.
There is no direct answer. But there are studies that have been done that it does increase safety for
cars. Especially in Bloomington with all the raised crosswalks, I know that you could hit those going
Pretty fast in the don't even see him. That's also a concern. Yeah. Other comments from the commissioners
just to raise any topics that we haven't talked about yet. Really shouldn't talk about the inventory
thing, but this is kind of a question. You mentioned the temperature of the light. I know some people
have very strong feelings on the inside.
And I don't know how long ago it was, but they made that big shift across the U.S. from those yellowish,
warmer lights to the LED lights. I remember I said I could see some of it better. Is there a temperature
that kind of is the best? So this, in the packet that I, apparently some of the photos got cut off,
but I had a thing in there, in the packet. So the resolution would recommend that that one has very,
I didn't fully, but anyway. The resolution would recommend, let me just hold it there for a second.
So the resolution is, if this became city code, would say that the maximum color temperature would be
3,000 Kelvin right here. Many of the lights that were introduced in recent years since the switch over
to LEDs is more in this range over here, which people hate, and I'm gonna, this chart down here tells
you why I'll tell you that in a second. And then it would also impose a requirement, a maximum of 2,200
Kelvin for environmentally sensitive areas.
So much more yellow, almost reddish light near environmental sensitive areas. This chart down here is
311 complaints for bright glaring or obnoxious lights. In around 2022, the city started switching to
the LED lights from the old sodium style lights. Yeah, there we go. I'm going to try to share it. Cool,
that'd be great. Definitely do.
You can see right here, immediately when they started switching them, in the decade previous to them
starting to switch, they got an average of 11 complaints about brighter blaring lights a year on 311.
The moment they started switching, it shot up to like 100 a year. People hate these lights that are
out. And I think genuinely, this will be a very popular thing to switch to less bright blaring, warmer
color temperature lights. So I think if we can frame this the right way, genuinely will be very popular.
I mean, I remember that
I remember the ones they put it on at water like blue. I think I was in a video game and they must have
been responsive to complaints because they did change. I did do a couple. Um, well, I also just think
some of the contracts are online on the city website. I also did a public records for other contracts,
um, up until
Part way through last year, most of the lights that Duke was installing was in probably the 45,000 Kelvin
range, which is far on the right end of that. Recently, Duke on its own has started, without the city
requiring or asking, which we could do, that's what I'm saying, they started switching to 3000 Kelvin
lights. Because I think, and they did that on their own, I think because so many cities were complaining
about them and starting to ask and require it, that they just started doing it on their own, which is
why I think we should start asking and requiring things ourselves as well.
So they are responsive to complaints that also that point also is important to know because basically
they're already starting to replace the lights on a normal schedule with 3000 Kelvin lights. We would
just need to add like a physical thing over pointing the light down is the only real thing that they've
already switched to 3000 Kelvin for three plates.
So just adding a physical cover of some sort, which would have a cost for sure, but I think it would
be popular over it. That's something either the city can do or we can ask Duke to do. I don't know exactly
how it would work, but that's beautiful. Is there a monetary incentive for Duke to use the brighter
ones or is it boss-wise? It's the same. The LEDs are the same. I mean, the really low ones might be
more expensive than the $3,000 note. And I just think this is
aspirational, I guess, who knows to what extent the university will want to comply. But I just also
think there's a golden opportunity when we're lighting areas like the Arboretum or the Dunmetter or
places like the tailgate fields up by athletics or something. We're at a university that's colors are
green and crimson. We could do redder lights in areas that are full of critters and it would,
I don't know, save money, pay dividend, look cool. I mean, I don't know. There's a lot of interesting
options here.
But yeah, primarily we're hoping that the city is able to shield and keep the color temperature from
getting out of control on the lights. And that would go a long way to more pleasant lighting and energy
savings. And just to point out, I think the single strongest thing in this is a two-parter, a public
warrant for lighting. What that means is it would require, the city would put something in its code
saying, in order to install a light somewhere,
You have to have a strong reason for the light in that specific case. And you cannot just say, well,
safety or security. It cannot be vague. It has to be specific to that site. That's for all public lighting
in the city. Number two, near environmentally sensitive areas. It would be, you have to prove that lighting
is the only thing that can solve the problem. And this burden of proof would be on the city to prove that.
And if they can get over that burden, that threshold, they would then have to use the lowest Lehman
count and the lowest color temperature possible for that site to solve the problem. And I think those
two things alone would probably be the strongest thing in the entire religion, personally, in terms
of lowering unnecessary light, that plus the color temperature and the shielding and things like that. Yeah.
Do you have any consideration about IU? Yeah, we can't force them to do anything. The resolution isn't
just to go to city council, there's a whole lot of bodies that it will be sent to. To my understanding,
Zach's had some conversations with different groups, astronomy, a bunch of places that are interested
in being involved. One of the members of our commission last night,
Tuesday night, whatever, how many days of it. Had a good point that if the city adopts something like
this, we could theoretically kind of pull them along a little bit. Like once we show that it can be
done, like the university can maybe be pulled along as well. So I don't know, that's a thought to consider.
Is there like a dark campus equivalent? There are, but I think this week, I had a call with Mark Skye
and I would be by far the largest campus.
I think they're willing to assign status to almost anything that gives a certain bar. They have the
Red Sky Airport. They have the Dark Sky Stadium. If you can meet their standards, you can meet their
standards. My way of thinking about this one is on a sort of every little bit counts basis. In the middle
of Indiana's Sentinel landscape, we're surrounded by state parks. We're like, if we can make
The sky darker, it will be better for the humans and the non-humans alike. And on that point, so the
goal of this is to give the city the goal of getting dark sky status. I don't actually care whether
we get dark sky status, to be blunt. I care if we reduce light pollution. So this is one area where
even if we don't, it's good to give the city the goal of getting to dark sky status. That's good, but
if we can't get there and we only get 50% of the way there or 75% of the way there, we have
still meaningfully reduced light pollution.
the dark sky thing is just a thing like a cherry on top to make this like to dangle in front of the
city a little bit to try to maybe anyway we could put a sign in front of her as people come into this
you know the things that he likes but anyway do you have a sense of if the status would be more of a
driver than the improved quality of nature it can be both yeah and it depends on receiving it as far as
pitching it and it like leading with this is what we're trying to accomplish. Do you feel like the status
would be something that people would be more brought in by then? It's good. It's good for the people.
Unfortunately, I think some people would be the former. They would rather have the be able to say that
they got a sign to put on the front of the city. But like when you come to the city for certain, it
depends on who you're talking to. Yeah. Yeah. For me, I care about the ladder. Yeah. Yeah. I was just,
I was thinking about just even
Even just simple things like the title, like minimalizing life solution, attaining dark space certification,
and just thinking whose, whose brains, whose eyes, you know, would respond to either of those and wouldn't
be the immediate, but they come with, you know, either of those. Yes. It's likely not going to be,
you know, perfect for any one individual, but there was a lot of consideration given between titles,
whereas clauses, so they're trying to see, you know, what moves who. It was, uh, many, many iterations
we, we arrived at this. Yeah.
So this really interesting point about how the lower amount of light will actually reduce the like severe
pollen season, which I feel is like a big sell here. Yeah, that's the one. It's like, even if you don't
care about the animal, you know. It's shocking. I was kind of shocked by how much pollen is produced.
Yeah, hearing how much artificial light extended the pollen season wasn't
It wasn't a surprise that it happened. It was a surprise. It was by nearly two months. Yeah. Yeah. It
was an average three days. Yeah, it was the previous. Neighborhood competition starts by neighborhoods.
Yeah. That would be the target. Yeah. Yeah. At the Neighborhood Association. I think we got that. I
think we're going to want to move that we advance this resolution to the second reading.
Second. Wait, who moved? I did. I think that that could be a huge either stopping point or a sticking
point as far as how much. Under section 2A,
The first thing that it says in the general recommendation is recommending a full inventory of all city-owned
lights, because as you said, it's kind of a cluster right now. Duke does own about 95% of the lights.
From what we can find, that you found a data set, I found it, I did a public record to request for a
data set, but we see two separate ones from the city that do not match. We found one from Duke that
doesn't have the same lights that are in the other two data sets, so they're all over the place.
And so absolutely the city should have an inventory of his life and they need that needs to be like
the first thing they do. Um, and so that would have a cost to obviously, but I think the city would
benefit from knowing where the lights are and where there is a cost to not. Yeah. As you mentioned,
like there were, we're paying for things that aren't actually there in some spots. Like one person who's doing it.
Yeah, it was assigned to that. Yeah. Well, we would need to invest more in it, obviously, to do a full
inventory on but long term. I think the city would benefit enormously from knowing where the actual
lights are Even divorced from light efficiency. Yeah, they should know this is just about government
efficiency. Yeah, it's, I don't know, it's crazy to me that we don't have a
Yeah. The city's own inventory. So like they sent me a map showing here's where all the streetlights
are in the city. And then I found another one that said, here's where all the streetlights are in the
city. And they don't, there's like zero percent overlap between them. And then none of them included
any of the lights in the park and park lights. So it's like, that's a completely different dataset floating
somewhere. I have no idea where. And then Duke Energy had, we pulled from their website, thanks to Justin,
all the data from that. And it only matched on like, like it had all of the Duke lights, but then
Only some of the city lights are on there. It's marked as city light. Anyways, we don't know where the
lights are. It's not like there's not an active requirement for us to have a full street light inventory.
It's just a thing on the list that we're getting to as quickly as we can with a single person doing
multiple things. So some of these, like, sheds light on this? As the resolution goes, it's recommended
actions. They might not.
choose to do all of them. The main reason I was pushing it to a vote is we have a fair amount of agenda
left and there's still a whole month worth of time to scour over the document, plan any potential language
you might want for an amendment and such. Yeah, I don't want to cut anyone off though. Is there a new
important thought before I move once again? My concern is how long that's going to take.
in touring, like there's thousands of them. It's gonna take months, maybe even one year. This calls
for asking for 70% compliance within three years and full compliance within five years. So you would
have several years to get there. At least it's according to this timeline that I kind of laid out based
on the ArcSci's requirements. So we would have a couple of years. But yes, it would be a large scale.
Yeah, and as Zach previously mentioned,
If those benchmarks aren't hit by that time, we're still reducing light pollution. Yeah. Um, what's
that gonna ask? What would the trend been looking at, Matt, this whole time of where a lot of the dark
sky places are and trying to figure out where else besides Flagstaff are like kind of the bigger cities.
Cause I was curious because it looks like Flagstaff is ground zero for this. I think so.
There aren't really other, I was trying to figure out if there were other examples of like cities that
came into this that had to do the conversion thing versus like Flagstaff is like, oh, we invented this
thing. Right. So. They had to do conversion, what do you mean? Well, it looks like Flagstaff was the
very first dark sky. Like that's where all that stuff, but like a bigger city that's like kind of going
through older. Bigger cities we would try to figure out like.
What was the process that they went through of getting their lights converted and all of that kind of
stuff? If there were examples we could talk to or pull from, but if it's only Blackstaff, I don't know.
We'd be among the mixed, yeah. Yeah. It could be placed in the trail. Is there anything else that's
like, when I was like, poking through the clock, it was like, even more urban places, it was like, highly
sacred. Yeah, they are.
Light pollution first, dark sky second. Again, it may not even be technically feasible, just given the
light that comes off of India. But still, we're trying to do our work. Yeah, achieving status is the
cherry on top. This is all very helpful. As far as any, I think that
I mean, I understand that you all have been talking to lots of different folks in different ways. Just
while we have you here, as far as like any thoughts that you want to share with us before we move to
the next item, are there any other things that you would recommend that we, I don't know if you've had
the chance to read? I don't think our documents were up on the web just yet, but are there any other
thoughts that we've not discussed that you would like us to kind of keep in mind as we start getting
together to discuss this? Knowing who the city staff are and that, do you think they're inviting? Yeah.
There's a few people that do it. I don't know if you got back down earlier, but and talking to those
people because they're probably going to be the ones that have to do. Unless they get someone. Or interns.
I'm trying to look at the GIS project for the university, get a group of students together, go around
on their bikes, take all the points.
You know, it's a good problem for us in other ways to neighborhood association. We're going to just
map all the streetlights in our neighborhood. You know, that could be given to the city. I'm sure we
can get maybe some social collaboration, which would be maybe use the burden. And I use strong means
here they they might be willing to help.
I did reach out to them about, because it's part of the, to get to exercise with the vacation EFM on
regular skylight monitoring program. So I did reach out to them to see if they would be theoretically
interested in handling that. I mean, they obviously didn't firmly commit to it, but they were very on
board with the idea. So maybe we could lasso them. You know, when we were doing the, when they were
preparing the climate action plan, we're doing the heat mapping and things like that. That was something
where the city sort of
coordinated it, but then had volunteers come in and drive around or, you know, put things up or whatever.
So that is kind of an interesting idea of if this is something where the inventory is just not feasible
with a single employee for a single apartment. Yeah. Thinking about how can neighborhoods or individuals
who are interested in participating be volunteered? Yeah. I mean, assessor should factor in.
Before and after, thanks, Tim. Yeah. One more thing, sorry. I didn't mean to dominate your turning.
One forced while we're talking about staffing issues, we are meeting our two permissions can leave the
dark sky application process and shepherd them through the city staff does not have to do that. If they
want to, they can. But we are. Anyway, that's I figured that was fine. But we are able to do that on
our own. That's a that's a potential selling point.
Is there a cross associated with this? I don't think so. Gosh, James, that's right. Yeah. I can also
look into that again, but I don't think so. I think there's applications being added. Maybe, I'll look
into that again, Todd. There's a certain number of applications. Yeah. What if we're out there,
and we say, that'd be C budget. Okay. I'm not going to get you around there. Oh, yeah.
Yes, but I'm happy to do it again. I will move that we advance this resolution to a second reading.
I'll second. Well, we're in the middle of that one. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Martinez? Yes. Professor? Yes.
Ellen? Yes. All right. Yes. Brown? Brown, yes. All right. Yes. So good. Yes. Great. OK. Great. Well,
thank you so much. Thanks for coming in. Thank you all for having a great conversation. Thank you. Awesome.
Yeah, it's great. Awesome. I was just like, it's very enlightening if you get to sit up for a moment.
You're the one that I'm afraid of. That's OK. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm OK.
You know, we're going to make it sweet. Oh, sure. Speaking of which, that's the next thing on the list.
Shh. Just leave the goodness out. All right. OK, well then, we are going to go ahead and keep moving
through. Members of the public, you're welcome to go if you'd like. But you still have to stay and have
cookies. So you can only have one cookie for the road. No more. Thank you. Thank you. OK, great.
for taking the time for that conversation. I feel like it's a really exciting idea. And I think there's
a lot of different ways to make this possible. So cool. Great. OK. Well then, oh, you may remember that
there was an email that went through. And there was some requested homework for the EC. So if you are
suddenly feeling nervous that you don't remember that, I will clarify.
So one of the things that I love about this group is that we each year sit down and think about what
are we going to focus on next year? How do we want to spend our time? What things are we going to produce?
Whatever. And it's a lot of fun. And we have a bunch of new commissioners that are within their first
couple of years of being on EC right now. And so my pitch was to have folks come in tonight. And I'm
not going to make you go around and say it, but I would love if you would volunteer. My request is to
have like,
One or two topics that is for you to have mine right now as far as environmental or or sustainability
or you know whatever whatever way you kind of want to shape it, but a theme that makes sense for the
EC to be thinking about.
And ideally, it'd be a topic that you personally are interested in. Part of what we do in the coming
year is identify, are there things we want to do? And having people who care about that topic is super
important for making it happen. So if we don't have anyone who's into the life solution topic, it's
not going to go anywhere because there's no one who's just waking up going, let's have these conversations,
which is great. So I'd love if any of you have any thoughts on a topic that really matters to you. It's
not committing at all, but it's just putting it out on the table for us
or play a little? And ideally, my request was, is there any kind of small action that you associate
with that idea that could be something we think about if we want to put it on the list for the coming
year or even in the coming months? Does that make sense? So my idea is item B. I really think it's important
that this commission expand the efforts of outreach. And we can talk about that in item B if you want.
You know, I discussed with the city, they're, they've given us some green light to do outreach and create
emotional materials. And my thought is we could put these in my cafes, we could put them, you know,
in an employee room, you know, break rooms. You know, anywhere where there might be, I have environmentalists
found, that's where we should be targeting. So, but we can discuss that in D if you'd like.
piggyback on that a little bit. Cause one of the thoughts I have is specifically targeting outreach.
Cause a lot of the stuff we've done previously is like at big events where we get to talk to individuals,
but trying to target like groups as well. Whether it's like, I don't care. It's much easier to try to
talk to churches or things like that. But some people could mobilize theoretically a large group of
people at one time, or at least like get them all on the hook for something at one time, if we get the
whole group involved.
Um, and figure out ways to do that. Yeah. And it's like group outreach a little more effectively. This
is kind of my, uh, bug bearer about this is that at, uh, three-fourths of measurement, uh, three-fourths
the capacity, we're running at three-fourths the strength. Like if we had four more people, the amount
of things we could do as a group would just, would be that much stronger. So I think like it should
be kind of our priority to get to at least full, close to full strength as possible.
It becomes something that allows us to more easily comment to table and also to introduce new ideas
and new polls. We also don't have to be concerned every time we meet whether or not we reach more and
we really conduct business. That's great. I like that y'all are thinking about how we just are a presence
in our community and how we're engaging people a bit more.
Great. Are there other things people want to contribute? I may or may not have understood the assignment
properly. So things that I was thinking about was just the importance of native plants and trying to
preserve mature trees, because I love how much planting the city does, but I hate seeing big trees get
cut down. Those aren't specifically action-oriented for us. Those are just two things I'm thinking about
that you may or may not
shape some kind of future endeavor. The only related possible action item that came to mind was maybe
it would be possible to collaborate, whether it's with Canobie or any other local groups to see if we
could target plantings within a corridor of our connectivity map. See if we can collaborate in that
way. Be strategic with plantings, whether it's trees or anything else or different groups, churches,
schools, whoever.
Um, to kind of look at what we already know about, about areas that we consider, you know, priority
green spaces for connectivity and see if we can't harness, um, any other partners in, in the helping
plant in those areas specifically. I'll be back again. Because bringing that canopy in like partnering
with them to try and like, you know,
Find places to plant things that would help connect every plan. The other idea I had was, like, trying
to find ways to be a facilitator between, like, the community and things like Riverwatch or the weed
rankings or anything like that. Figuring out how, like, we can use our role of, like, we know what all's
going on. Yeah, we know.
You're a person here talking to us. Why don't you go do these other things that would help the environment
and the community? Here's all these opportunities and things. So you're talking about getting
our commissioner announcements in front of other groups. Yes. I love it. That's great. Other thoughts
from folks? Other things that are like top of mind for you? Okay. I have one then. Um, and this is a
little bit because of my.
my involvement with the radio station, but I just talked to somebody from the Plastic Reduction Alliance.
It's a nonprofit up in the Valparaiso area. And they're, they're basically the, from my understanding,
really the only organization of their type for Indiana. And it's around, I mean, they do stuff with
education. They do stuff with like cleaning up at the dune. They do, they're kind of led by some researchers.
So they do a lot about looking into like microplastics, nanoplastics and things like that.
As you may know, Indiana has a awesome law that makes it so that we can't ban, practically ban plastic
bag use or D, I guess, I guess fine for plastic bag, whatever. There are a lot of things that are,
I think, right in front of us that can be ways to reduce unnecessary plastic use. And I think that some
of the even legislation around plastic use or non-plastic use are things that I'd be interested in like
talking about because it is
I think it's a timely topic and something that we really, um, uh, there's a lot of people that care
about it. So for me, I think plastic is something that we've not talked about before, but it's something
I think about constantly. So that's a topic for me. And I think that, I think collaboration is the name
of the game with this group. We're volunteering our time. We do not need to invent things from scratch
when there are people or organizations who are already either leading the way or very interested in
collaborating.
Um, the other thing that I've been thinking about, and I don't really have like a action for it, but
it's something I want to think about as a group is the environmental implications of AI. I think about
it, I think about it more than anything about plastic, which is a whole lot, but it's something that
I, I would be interested in having a conversation about. Is that something that we want to make a statement
about? Is it something that we want to talk about on, and then we want the city or
counsel to be aware of? Is it something that we want to have? I don't know, any other stance
or recommendations or maybe like guiding concepts or philosophies, anything like that. I think about
it all the time and that's something that if somebody said, can we do something, I would say, heck yeah.
So those are my two topics. For what it's worth, before their summer recess,
council did pass a resolution about AI and basically, I don't remember the phrasing, it was council
member Rolo who proposed it and he had experts available and a lot of other stuff, but I think they
unanimously passed. It wasn't exactly a moratorium, but it was a resolution kind of opposing this careless
expansion of AI and
And like data centers and stuff. It was it like data center specific stuff, or was it like integrating
AI technology into city? It was going to say that I watched the meeting, but I can't remember all the
specifics. More along the lines of what you just said. Okay. Okay.
the Hoosier Environmental Council, they put together a lot of materials on data center stuff, because
it's been a front-line issue. Yeah. So I don't think the resolution the City Council passed was environment
first, everything else second, but I know it was a consideration. I know that it was mentioned, the
environmental arms as well as other societal arms. So it could be something to look back at and find
the text of that resolution and see if not that that would
satisfy what you're looking for, but at least it'd be a jumping off point. Be like, oh, hey, I see you
guys just did this. Can we, can we keep talking about it? And especially the environmental events. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that like data centers is, it's, it's a whole conversation and an AI is also
a conversation. It's definitely something that's like in front of my eyes for public people. Cause I
had a landowner turn up, almost blew up at me this week because he thought my sample was data center.
I had to knock them down. Yeah. And it's really interesting. I would pass the mic to whoever else wants
to share, but I think it's really interesting that there's so many people from an individual basis have
their own personal, here's what I hate or fear or know is dangerous or whatever it is. But then as soon
as it kind of moves into a larger body, it gets a lot more nebulous as far as what is okay? What are
we talking about? What are alternatives? What are hard lines? What are all of those things? So I just
find it super interesting. And I think that there's,
there are a lot of different conversations that the EC could have if they want to. So, yeah. I think
my other part of that is, you know, people will say, I don't want the data center, but at the same time,
I'll hop on the computer, go to some AI platform. You know, hey, I don't have this problem with this
question. At the same time, I don't want to say I'm going to want it right here. That's exactly right.
And then what community does get this, you know, imposed on them. And what is that for? I know we don't
say the EJ word out loud here, but we, you know,
it is definitely a concern that way, too, of which communities are being put in that harmful situation.
It's a very not-in-the-backyard position. I dedicated a whole meeting we just had in that conversation.
If we want to make a statement like laying out that as well. One thing about data centers, there was
a state law recently passed that there's a tax incentive to convert old minds
into data centers and you know, we have around here. And it was, that was done by Cook. She was from
Lawrence County, also a bunch of quarries. And so, yeah, that is a concern of mine, what they could
possibly do here. But I'm pretty sure there's already a moratorium on data centers in Bloomington that
was like past like
Three years ago or so. We only had one. It was expiring this summer though. Oh, great. I think that
was part of what prompted even the Council on Derellas was more about AGI than anything else. But like,
I think that was to put it back on the table as well, to redraw attention to it because it was either
a two or three year mortgage and whatever it was, it was running out. There's only one here.
data center. Yeah, I feel like that's Bloomington. The university has a data center over there that
leads to the hospital. It's been there for years and it's not grand. It's not that big. It's more of
just like a building with a super computer in it and understanding. Yeah, it's just not like a small
campus. I feel like in the city limits, it's probably a very attractive spot for a data center because
they want lots of land for cheap. Yeah, and also Bloomington.
is its own. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. I think that that's a part of it too, is what makes sense for
us to really try and make a statement and whereas it's like, sure, fine, make that statement, but that's
probably not the biggest concern or the highest impact that we're going to feel. The county maybe, but
we're in the city. Okay. Well, thanks for undertaking this conversation. I appreciate that. Other things
that people have on their mental list that are standing out to them these days that will be worth
in tune to keep around in conversation? Yeah, I kind of was a bit more, when I was thinking about it,
I was thinking about where we're standing currently with outreach and then we talked about more outreach,
but with where we're at now with a lot of our stuff coming through these tabling events, I kind of focused
a little bit more on that and kind of what we can provide at a tabling event. For me, water is kind
of what interests me. So, you know, runoff related, stream related, you know, I think one of the big
ones is, you know,
People don't always know where, where it goes. Um, you know, I think easy materials would be something
like the layout of Bloomington and where all the different areas flow to it. So you can see your neighborhood
and say, Oh, my runoff goes to Jackson or all my runoff goes here. And it just kind of makes it more
kind of relevant to you that anything that goes down to this train in front of my house is going to
end up in the playground that we go to in the afternoon to get something like that. It just makes it
a little bit more in the front of the mind on
you know, while you're grasping, they're all in the sucker living industry, they're all like, you know,
the candy wrapper you got, all that's going to end up there at some point. So just, you know, simple
handouts for information on, you know, what goes where and what's bad to go in those places, I think
would be an easy kind of educational material. You may have done something like that in the past when
I looked through before I didn't see that specifically, but. I know some places will put,
like physical placards on storm drains and say this drains to X location. That's a little bit more than
we would probably have the ability to do, but still providing that information just in a more casual
way. It sounds like a really cool idea, especially just for like a big map where someone could look
at the other neighborhoods too and take pictures of theirs or their friends. There's a lot of different
areas where our stormwater runs too and where it's healthy stuff.
be like an awesome visual aid, even if, even if not a pamphlet. So like that I realized that like there's
water running, there's a river, there's a creek running under downtown and stuff. There's, I know that
in the past we've had so many great ideas, but in the past we've talked about, um, different
grant opportunities. And I know that the city does offer grants in lots of different ways. And one thing
that, because we are a city commission, it would be potentially thinking about how can we help
Provide things like this within an easy avenue to, Hey, you're from this neighborhood. You're from this
part of town. You can apply for a grant or your, you know, whatever organization ever can apply for
this grant. We can help you know how to do that to mark your strong dreams or to, you know, whatever
it would be. So that might be something to do. Speaking of grants, that reminds me, I don't think we've
talked about this, but next year problem. There's the 319 grants. We can do septic with them now.
Okay. I'm going to put that on the list. You didn't bring it in for that, but I'm going to put that.
Yeah. So that's closed out for this year, but for next year, because we've talked about that and that
kind of immediately what we circled as the biggest issue. And now we can use the money that changed
this year. Well, that's perfect timing then. Okay. Cool. Great. Justin, that's a great idea. Do you
have anything else that you want to share?
before it passed around. Yeah, I'm good. Pass it. Cool. Other folks have anything that they've been
thinking about or that they want to toss out to the larger group? I don't have anything terribly specific,
but kind of similar to Matt's. I've been killing my grass and planting native plants, and it's so fun.
I have to mow less. I get these full flowers and bones and stuff, and I feel like spreading awareness
that it's not
really that hard to do. Like I put cardboard down, I wait two weeks, I lift it. A week later, I put
it back down, grass is dead, plant stuff. Just that raising awareness that it's not that hard to do.
It'll save you money and time. And it's good to clean time. And it looks good. You get flowers. You
can keep them in my neighborhood. I'm very jealous of what they've done with their front yard. They're
very aspirational from me.
It reminds me of the eco-heroes theme that you, I think you suggested. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Which is a
fun. It's like some areas that are very successful and some of it have a lot of grass mixed in, but
guess what? It's still better than just turf grass. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I didn't come prepared to Justin
about stormwater. One.
thing that I see a lot on the ground are cigarette butts. And I was thinking of like, what is the possibility
that having like cigarette canisters downtown? Like we have trash cans. We can't stop people from smoking.
They're going to smoke. Like what's the possibility of like putting those alongside trash cans downtown?
Do they used to have those? I swear there used to be.
And they maybe just replacing when I walked out the trash or something. I don't see any downtown people.
Yeah. Especially downtown. Yeah. Yeah. Especially outside of all the trash. It is a fire hazard. Yeah.
It's the same concept with trash cans. Like if you just have more trash cans available, people are just
more likely to just toss it in that rather than just toss it on the ground. Yeah. I think people want to like,
have to sit and wait for their put out cigarette to cool down and then be something they can walk over
to like, there's, I think it's like studies. Yeah. Yeah. The grounds and stuff on it. Then you pick
it up and fill them with pretty, pretty solid filter. Um, but that's a good question of, are there,
are there studies about kind of like the hotspots? That's a good idea.
Some cities also have the watersheds signs delineating when you're crossing the next watershed. We have
two watersheds, well two major watersheds, major watersheds in the town that we couldn't do that for.
I'm always like, that's like my fun fact. I'm just like, you know what, here's something, what are you
saying about watershed? That's, but I think it's, yeah, I think it's kind of cool, like that kind of
concept of just like the things that
to build awareness to somebody that they realize they don't know what that thing is or have not seen
it before. So it's good to have curiosity. Mostly to slap a bunch of signs on the 17th. And that's about
the line. OK. Well, I know that we've got more things on the agenda still. But are there any other thoughts
people want to share? I really, really appreciate you all taking time to talk through this. It's kind
of fun just thinking, like, where are people's headsets? And what do you like? And it's also sort of
a head start on the planning meeting. Like, we can be thinking, right,
And that rolls around in November or whatever. And say, OK, how do we build on all this? And we'll bring
new things. And this is in a minute. And I know you all are taking this, too. So keep this stuff in
mind. Yeah. Anything else people want to add to this section before we move to the next round of talking
points? All right. OK. Moving down to the commission vacancy discussion. Well, we already talked about
it a little bit. But this is something that.
I know a few of us have just kind of like chatted about as far as we have some vacancies, which is totally
fine and normal, but it does make it hard when we wanna have initiatives that we just don't have enough
bodies or enough brains or enough time in the day. A lot of us, you know, work or have obligations that,
you know, make it hard for us to spread ourselves too thin. So this is just a quick moment to refocus
on conversations we're having, people in our communities that might be a good fit. And I really appreciate
coming with that being something that's on your mind a lot, that's really helpful. And I think that
part of it is remembering to kind of think outside the box of thinking about the people that you know
who, when you bring up water, they've got something to say. When you bring up plastic, they've got something
to say. When you bring up native plants, they're really excited to talk about that. You run into them
at the native plant sale every year and it's a buddy you've had for years, but that kind of thing where
the EC doesn't have to be any one thing. I mean, we have certain
things that we would fulfill as a body, but we are not really beholden to a single specific, you know,
course or track, which means as we populate with people who have different interests and experiences
and trainings and roles in our community, I mean, there's so many different ways that we contribute
because of who we all are. I would love to just kind of like remind everyone here that besides you need
to look within the city limits at this time, it's really just kind of,
who wants to be here and are they dedicated to caring for our environment and having time and ideas
to help make that happen? Yeah, I know, Matt, you've done a great job of just being relentless about
like, did you know that you have public spots, which I really, really appreciate. Yeah, but I mean,
obviously the application process is pretty straightforward. And once we, as we get cycled
through applications, you know, it's,
is something that we're always looking for people to put the name on the list. Yeah, but just
also contribute, just kind of think outside the box. There might be like, obviously, we value expertise.
If you know any specialists in any field, that's great. But there might be a ton of involved people
in your community or teachers. Or there might be people you never thought of that, oh, yeah, they're
actually really passionate about this thing and might like to volunteer a little bit each month.
So yeah, just think about it.
We, over the, over the last couple of years, um, I think we, we dipped down to eight members once before
we got back up to 11 and then it's just been kind of bad circumstances of, of people rolling off here
lately. So we're down to eight again. I think there might be like a perception that we always struggle
with quorum, but I think the reality is it has a little bit more to do with the definition of quorum
than it is with getting people to be on this body. However, the more people we get.
on this commission, the less we have to worry about anyone's interpretation, of course. So if you know
anybody, you might give them a nudge. Yeah, easy peasy. Or they can come and they can talk to us, or
they can come as a member of the public who doesn't even know that we are now going to start to actually
know. But yeah, I mean, it's very open and we're all, you know, we all can talk to our own experiences
and obviously it's really flexible groups.
Well, so share with your friends and neighbors. Great. OK, that's all I'm going to say for that. The
next item on the list is social media. So we are currently at a place where we have to approve social
media posts. I know we talked about what this would look like differently. But if nothing else, I passed
this along to Jackie because this is something that the city committee put together, very cute little
thing. But we have to get a vote before we can post it on the EC's Facebook page. OK.
in being non-stop.
So, simple enough, how would folks feel about us sharing this on our Facebook page?
Okay. Mesture. Yes. Yes. All right. Yes. Brown. Yes. Yes. Yes. Awesome. It's going to show up in our
feed. I can't wait for you all to watch it and share with your friends and mention that we are also
accepting a new commissioners. So baby.
Okay, that's it. That's it for me. And I know that we're moving on to the old business, which there
is none, which means we're just zipping through. We now have commissioner announcements. A reminder,
your announcements may be environmentally based. They may be about something you're doing in
your professional world. They might be something you just want to share with us and also everyone watching
cats. It could be really your choice of what you want to share. Yeah, I'll open up.
I don't know. This was just weird and random. I spent all week in Terre Haute doing, uh, it was our
first week of, uh, field season. We have our, we're doing an intensive watershed on the south side of
Terre Haute. And I didn't realize before this week that you could just find a whole chance of coal,
just fresh coal. It is free. Uh, so yeah, I had a bunch of coal, uh, because we brought some home because,
but yeah, there were, it was a,
extremely weird watershed, because there's a bunch of that former coal mine activity. And I went and
did some sampling and thought some of the landowners was like, yeah, the mine shut down. Like one of
the pharma companies started just dumping their trash into mines. And that got cleaned up, but it's still.
But yeah, I just thought it was neat that you guys might like to know that you can find coal just straight
up. You should have stashed that away and then put it in your kids' stockings. That is stockings that
fit. Every year, the recipe. They cry, say, I'm just kidding. Here, here, here, here, here. Other folks,
anything to share? Yeah, I guess I'll share with y'all.
I actually quit my job. I'm actually, after about 10 years, I'm no longer going to be a scientist. So
I'm having a bit of a shift. I'm actually going to end up spending a lot more time with math. I'm attending
the law school now. Oh, that's really exciting. Did you do this because of math? No, this has been a
while coming.
But yeah, so. That's really exciting. But I'm still very committed to the environmental commission,
and I still have some expertise. So happy to share with you. Love it. Do you start classes, I guess,
this fall then? Yep. It's all right. It's coming up. That's so exciting. Well, congratulations. That's
really fun. There's a big shift going, so. Right, yeah. A little bit of a change there. That's cool.
Well, that's cool. I can't wait to hear kind of how
this world and that world intersect for you, or just how it used to move? Nice. You got here now, you
want to give your science background some tips? Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a lot of ways I can apply
my science background, so, but I don't feel at all, so. You're a nice guy, I find. Virgil Harson, which
is decided as a term. Ryder. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Other folks, any announcements? I guess I just want to
Thank everybody who worked on the light pollution resolution. I know that was, I mean, fortunately,
Zach gave us a great running start, but that was still a bit of a lift and I'm excited to see where
it's going, our joint meeting. And I also want to thank Kaida for bringing us snacks. Yes. Well, this
is not environmentally related, but it's Bloomington related. Next Saturday night, the 25th at
Seven o'clock at the Busker of Chungley is the annual Girls Rock Bloomington Showcase. So Girls Rock
Bloomington, as you may or may not know, is a nonprofit here in town for growth trends, not binary kids.
So learn to play musical instruments and write an original rock song and then perform it on the big
stage at the Busker with their little seven-year-old friends. And it is amazing work. And I volunteer
with them all year long, but I definitely do the camp as well. So next, a week from Saturday,
at the Busburg is by donation. Um, I think it's like 10 looks to me that they asked for, but it is just
a nice, a very cute little weirdo musicians doing their thing. So I invite you to come or you can follow
them on social media and just get it from a distance and you can mute it if you need to, but it's actually
a really, really great. Anybody else? Well, in conclusion, our next meeting
is August 20th. As you know, we love having as many bodies in the chairs as possible. If you know you
cannot make that meeting, please shout it out. If you need to reschedule, please raise your hand. And
that will kind of help us make sure we're being effective. Next meeting, August 18th special meeting
with, yeah, technically right before the 20th, so. Which I, I don't know if that's. I don't know if
it's officially on the books that I just taped. It's not officially on the books.
Okay, yes, but our monthly, obviously, next monthly meeting is at 20th. But yeah, great. Well then,
in that case. And motion re-adjourned. Second. Nice job, Adam. Okay, great. Thanks, y'all. Really appreciate
it. Adam, what to say?