- OK, I'd like to call to order the October 21st meeting of the Economic Development Commission. We're
- in the McCloskey Conference Room. It's approximately 4, 07, 4, 08 p.m. And I think the first thing we'll
- do is a roll call, so. This? Yes, final. OK, number? Tim? Tim Hakey, member? And Kurt Zorn, member?
- So we have a quorum.
- And Jane Cooper Smith staff. Great. And Dee, you're on also your staff, correct? Dee? She's frozen.
- OK. Well. Dee De La Rosa staff. Dee De La Rosa staff is available too. And we see Mr. Green, Casey,
- Ms. Green.
- Okay, thank you, and sorry. All right. We have approval of the minutes to do. We have minutes that were
- corrected for May 20th, 2025. Anybody have any comments?
- I don't think I was here in May, but I'll be happy to make a motion for the other one. Yeah, I was here
- by Zoom. I will move approval. OK. And since there are only three of us, I will second it. And we will
- ask for a vote. All in favor, say aye. Opposed?
- And if this is the main one, I don't think I was serving on this one in May. I think you can still vote.
- Oh, I can? Yes. OK. I found that out a while back. Oh, OK. Even though you're not there, you can vote.
- OK, then I'll vote, yes, if I can vote. Yeah, that'd be helpful. So that we can be done. That's right.
- So we can get those off there. Right. And then we have the, and Jane, correct me if I have missed something
- right here, the Tuesday, August 26 minutes for
- Consideration approval. Yeah. Well, I'll make the motion. If I can go ahead and certainly make a motion.
- You certainly don't. Yeah. Tim, you want to second that? Yes, I second the approval of the August meeting.
- And of course, any comments? If not, then all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed?
- and the abstentions, and it passes unanimously. So moving back to the agenda, we are in an area today
- we've got some things to discuss in general, and we thought it would be a good idea to get some background
- on these issues as they're coming up in the future for possible action. So I'm going to turn it over to Jane.
- Yeah. So we place two items on the agenda for general discussion. One is more developed than the other.
- So I'll share just a little summary here. I have a slide deck I can share, actually, wherever I put
- it. Where did I put the slide deck? So I think if I duck over,
- Sorry, everyone. Okay, D, does that show as this slide deck? Hopefully it does. So like I said, we placed
- two items on the agenda for general discussion. There are not necessarily actions for the EDC to take,
- but these fall in line with our, or could fall in line with our economic development framework, which
- we spent some time discussing, I think in our August meeting,
- that included this item of kind of activating and advancing different nodes of commercial activity,
- kind of thinking of Bloomington as a city that contains multitudes instead of just one downtown district,
- but that we offer a lot of different areas of our town with different experiences for visitors and residents.
- Along those lines,
- We kind of identified this area surrounding Miller Showers Park or rather businesses identified this
- area and requested that it be named the stadium district. They requested that of council member Stossberg
- and Rosenbarger and then the Chamber of Commerce brought it to ESD. We talked about it for a long time
- and then we proposed legislation to council on 1022 and it was
- Fairly well received, but it was tomorrow, right? Oh, I meant to say 922. OK, sorry. It was well received
- in theory, but residents, especially of Maple Heights, had very consistent feedback that they didn't
- want their neighborhood in there and they didn't feel like it was appropriate. And so for an R4 neighborhood
- to be in the district, and so we
- The legislation was tabled. We brought the feedback to our GIS team. And the map that you're looking
- at now is the map that incorporates their feedback and council feedback. So the R4, which is the residential
- zoning district, is removed. It's all commercial with the exception of the Garden Hill
- neighborhood, which is the student development district. And so that zoning district has a different
- identity than they are for. And we felt like that was really appropriate to include. So I think this
- conversation is just to let you know that this is a discussion that's happening and that we're thinking
- critically about how to just advance the identity of this neighborhood in a more deliberate way. We've
- seen a lot of development around Miller showers.
- in 2019 with the UDO updates or 2020 that really targeted the area east of Miller showers for student
- residential and then that's really driven a lot of activity to that area. So we remain excited about
- the opportunity to bring in this district and think this is pretty straightforward. It's a name. There
- are concerns about whether the name will
- drive so much activity that our infrastructure won't accommodate it. But I don't think we're there yet.
- I think this is a seed being planted. Yeah. When you say infrastructure, what kind of infrastructure
- do you mean? Pedestrian infrastructure, primarily. And there is a need for that. I drive through there
- on my way home every day.
- there there are a lot more people using the district than there were sidewalks could be improved yeah
- and they and they will be the college walnut corridor study kind of cooled off for a while and is picking
- back up again and will include this area as well it runs how far north that's how far is that you know
- I don't know if it goes north of the bypass or not but it does
- This map that goes it incorporates so this outline it's hard to read see on screen here, but this is
- This scoops visit Bloomington Yeah, and like this is the Kroger Kinzer so if they wanted to label themselves
- the same district Kroger they could do that and
- And the Harley-Davidson's pick up there too. Holiday and all that. And the major intersection is 17th
- Street, right? Or no, that's a bypass. This is the bypass. And then 17th Street's at the bottom of the
- park. And this is a little bit of a commercial. Over here it goes over to, it includes smoking jacks
- and some of the other areas. So how does Maple Heights compare to Garden Hill? So Maple Heights is zoned R4.
- and Garden Hill is student. I just want to look up the official title. Give me a second. Apartment complexes
- up in there, right? Yeah, and there are some rental homes. Okay, so I can give you the descriptions
- if this loads.
- mixed-use student housing. The mixed-use student housing district is intended to accommodate an adequate
- supply and mix of housing opportunities for students in areas adjacent or within easy walking distance
- to campus, along nearby commercial corridors with easy access to campus, to campus serving public transit
- and to university-provided parking, such as the area located directly west, southwest, and northwest
- of Memorial Stadium.
- This district is intended to have a high percentage of student-oriented housing units, including larger
- developments that might not be permitted in other districts, but not totally exclusive of other types
- of residential housing units. So part of Garden Hill does contain single-family and owner-occupied,
- they're in the area, the houses that are south of 17th, east of college, or east of Walnut.
- But north of 17th, there's quite a few apartments up in there, right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And
- then if you want the same R4 is residential. Oh no, that's R3. I apologize. I think I was saying the
- wrong thing. Maple Heights is R3, which is residential small lot. The R3 district is intended to protect
- and enhance established residential neighborhoods.
- by increasing the viability of owner occupied and affordable dwelling units through small lot subdivisions,
- accessory dwelling units, and property improvements compatible with surrounding development patterns.
- The conversion of existing housing stock to more intense land use is discouraged. This district may
- be used as a transition between median lot residential development and neighborhood scale residential.
- And a lot of the feedback was,
- that we would inadvertently be supporting short-term rentals by including Maple Heights with the stadium
- district. And I think that's a very reasonable concern in supporting short-term rentals as in direct
- opposition to all of our housing goals at the city. So I think it was a pretty clear case to pull that out.
- So anyway. So how much was carved out after the resident feedback then, you know? It was really kind
- of this area. And then we had included parts of Cascades. And so we just are following the zoning districts
- with the exception of this, including the mixed use student.
- Good. If there aren't questions on that, maybe I'll move on to the other topic, which is a little. So
- what do we need to do with that? It's just an FYI. You may want the commission to, if they're so inclined
- to support. You could make a resolution in support of it.
- I mean, that would be awesome if that's what the commissioners decided to do. The council is hearing
- it again, I think, the first week of November. And I kind of deliberately wasn't making an ask of you
- all today when the legislation was received with more controversy than what I anticipated. I thought,
- OK, this is just an opportunity to air it out and communicate a little more about what's going on.
- And then could we still do a resolution after the next council meeting, or would it have to be done
- before the council meeting? I don't know that it would be super purposeful after the council meeting,
- after the legislation's already approved, but. Would they find that useful, you think, the council?
- ESOC's not here to ask, but I think they do, I think it helps them to have input. So, Linsgreen, did
- you say you live in the Maple Heights neighborhood?
- Here, let me unmute you. I did. I'm sorry. I wasn't prepared for camera. Don't worry about it. Don't
- worry about it. I'm a bit of a hot mess. Yes, I'm in the Maple Heights neighborhood. So can you, I know
- you're not necessarily the representative of the neighborhood, but as a resident, can you comment on
- the newly drawn
- The objections, I guess what I'm trying to get at, there were some objections from your neighborhood
- about being included, and now it looks like you're excluded, so do you get a sense that that answers
- the objections that were raised? You know, we have a neighborhood association meeting later on this
- evening, so I don't know whether it speaks to other
- it doesn't necessarily speak to all of mine and it does appear, I would have to recheck our map, that
- some of Maple Heights is still in there. I was mostly sitting in today to get more information because
- we didn't really find out about the proposal until right before the vote. So I don't want to be hasty.
- My interpretation of the feedback given at the council meeting wasn't so much that it had to do with
- zoning and being arbitrary specifically, but kind of the pressure that we're already feeling regarding
- the stadium. I don't want to say branding because no one's been officially doing it, but what we've
- been experiencing over the past two years from developers specifically
- Seeking tailgate or stadium type business and tenants has been really rough. And so the concern is even
- if the line is one block over, we're still going to be impacted by all of that. The traffic, the vandalism,
- the noise complaints. And when I spoke to, very briefly,
- from council members, the feedback that I received was that we just needed to complain louder and more
- consistently to the police and to HAND in order to get that in control. And I'm kind of averse to any
- branding that puts us in an adversarial posture with our neighbors, you know? I don't know if that answered
- your question. I think I'm still just taking a lot of this in.
- That helps. Thank you. I will add I did send the updated draft. It has a draft written on it map to
- Tracy B who's the president of the Maple Heights Neighborhood Association and I had offered to come
- meet but wasn't aware that you had a meeting tonight. So and I have a conflict this evening, which is
- too bad because it was
- clear that conversation was needed. And also, I'm a former resident of Maple Heights. I wanted to just
- say that. I love that neighborhood. Yeah. And we definitely do want to support development. I do want
- to emphasize that, that the complaint isn't a wholesale. We just don't want it. But we do have a visitor
- tonight anyway, so she might not have. That's fine. Yeah. As long as you know the offer, the offer is
- important to have made.
- and was made, so. Yeah, the one clarifying question I would have is, I thought the last one, they rescheduled
- the vote for tomorrow, and then you're also talking about early November, but then when I'm looking
- at the agenda for the Common Council, so is that just gonna be a, we're shelving it until November vote?
- Yes, that's right, because we haven't had the time to interact with
- you know, the Maple Heights Neighborhood Association or the Garden Hill, which isn't as active. And
- so Hopi is going to be presenting a memo or she put a memo in the packet that requested to table it
- until the first week of November. Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate giving us the moment to
- like see what this would entail and, you know, get to know more. Yeah.
- To be clear, this is for the commercial. I mean, we said it in the meeting, and we had our map wrong.
- But this is for the commercial districts. This is for the businesses who requested to be able to self-label
- in this way. And our work, thanks, Ms. Green. Is it OK if we?
- Thank you for letting us put you on the spot. Can I just say one more little thing though, just given
- on where you're going, I just want to make it clear. We are not confused about the difference of this
- being a commercial issue versus a residential renaming of our neighborhood. It sounded like people were
- reading it that way. We do understand that these are separate, but they are closely integrated and we
- are impacted by the businesses that are on.
- right on the same block as what will be this district. So even as it's proposed effectively. So, I mean,
- we'll still be closely, it needs to be collaborative, you know. And then, of course, I'll go on mute.
- Yeah, go ahead. Let's ask a question for you. I'm a fellow member here on this commission. And so I
- wanted to know,
- What is it that you would suggest that would mitigate your concerns with the district? I. I hesitate
- to speak on that until I kind of get more information about how this was developed. I I.
- Are there concerns currently? I mean, what happens now? You mentioned something about you already have
- trash, you have that kind of thing. So is that the main thing now that you're concerned about or what's
- happening now? The stadium affiliation, I see where it came from. And that seems to have been a strong
- discussion in history that I'd like to get more information on that before I really speak.
- Um, yeah, yeah, I had herbicide sprayed on my property to increase, um, you know, the appearances when
- parents are around. Um, I had my motorcycle pushed over. I have had people, trucks of young boys, um,
- as I walked down the street, um, yelling and calling me a liberal bitch.
- on my actual street, you know? So I was there for the past two years, the demographic shift in some
- of the rentals, not all. I used to do rentals right beside me in a little house, and I never had any
- problems. From there, it's exclusively the rentals that I know are kind of marked in proximity to the
- stadium. So I don't know what happens now. We're just also dealing with
- Behind my house, a dead end was recently opened up. No one was warned. Trees were cut down. We weren't
- getting any feedback. And now people speed where kids are playing on the road. And we're nowhere near
- the top of the priority for that. So I think that is, we're already impacted by this closer association
- with the stadium that we had in the previous years.
- Yeah, I don't know how we resolve this, if it's dead set on it being a stadium district, but I'm just
- hoping to gather information so I can maybe think about that. And will, I don't know, but then will
- there be public comment for her and others to speak at the next meeting then? At the council meeting,
- yeah. Yes. Oh, yes. So you would have a chance to come to the council meeting in a little while,
- a few weeks, right? To speak about it again publicly, which maybe you probably can develop and
- talk to others there and figure out what it is that you really might think about could work, right?
- Right, yeah. We just, as a neighborhood, need to get caught up on this proposal that's been, like, in
- the works for a really long time, you know? So, could I ask you to do something tonight at your meeting?
- Could you encourage your neighborhood association to take
- the Economic Development Commission director up on her offer to come meet with you and possibly have
- a special meeting before the council meeting so people can become better educated about what the intent
- is of the district and so forth. So they can make more informed comments at the council meeting in November.
- I think that would be ideal if you could
- possibly advocate for that. I'd also offer, I can probably bring our engineering director with me who
- would be able to speak about things like the dead end opening up and maybe more important than what
- has happened is what is in the future, like what's in the transportation plan that might impact you
- all. Offer stands.
- Just an idea, if you're so inclined to advocate for that. Do they know how to reach out? Oh, yeah. I
- have a feeling we'd all love that. You know how to reach? I'm in touch with their director
- of the Neighborhood Association so she can reach out. And then also, I think Kate Rosenberger is your
- council rep, and she also has all my contact info. So yeah, great.
- Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Thanks for the time. Your input's been very helpful.
- Thank you. Thank you. So given those comments, I personally think that it doesn't make sense for us
- to put forth a resolution until we get more information. I'm not sure I'd be in support. OK.
- I recognize the value of having neighborhoods named and creating small census of community, et cetera.
- But this one is tied to this alcohol, additional alcohol. It's not tied to it. It's not technically,
- but it's the same movement. No, it's separate. Can I go into that? Sure, yeah, please. I placed them
- here together. We probably leave no issue.
- Like, for instance, the neighborhoods, if they could be able to count on more patrols and that kind
- of thing, is that being discussed anywhere during stadium events? You know what I mean? That's a great
- recommendation. I don't know what the current practice is. I assume that's already standard because
- there's so many bodies up there. I think you have to get the IU University police because they do a
- lot of the patrols.
- in those neighborhoods around Garden Hill like that. The bigger picture to me is that in our community,
- we're becoming a first-class football university, which is changing. And third-class academic, maybe,
- or whatever. I mean, you know, the whole emphasis has changed. And we are going to suffer the consequences.
- And in this case, in my view,
- we're being led by this change as opposed to being out in front and promoting what we think should happen.
- It's very difficult. I don't know what our council and especially mayors should do, but this
- is a consequence. So this was a business led initiative, is that right? Yes, from January, 2024. It
- kept getting tabled. And so it was well before any of the current
- challenges that are being experienced. But I take the point that there's a balance to be struck. Well,
- now it's just more relevant, the fact that it's going to be labeled something to go along with what's
- already happening. Well, I still think it's really important. Thinking about the hoteliers, for example,
- and one of the
- One of the best use cases that I think about is how our convention center is being developed. It's not
- going to have a host hotel online, but having hotels be able to brand themselves, the stadium district,
- they'll be able to know that they can have easy access to the convention center. So if it were to become
- part of our lexicon, and it's just referring to this area up there rather than
- I'm going to use hyperbolic language, but rather than like a Gomorrah of sorts, which is what I think
- the use of the term stadium is conjuring for people. And I think mainly we just want to flag that it's
- proximal to this space. It's a geographic identifier, and it has a positive association with IU Sports.
- That said, the things that Ms. Greene is describing to us really are, I think, not pleasant and
- perhaps a symptom of the student population that's been driven into this north side. So it's probably,
- I think those experiences are a result of changes that are years in the making from our driving, yeah,
- of students up that way. I don't know. I'm probably speculating too much. Well, there's a lot. I mean,
- it used to be a football game when you have 20,000 people. Now it's 50,000. Over 50.
- Yeah, and that's just a huge difference. Yeah. But I feel like we react to problems a lot. As opposed
- to, I mean, yeah. Do you think this naming is reacting to a problem? I think I'm not concerned about
- the naming. It's the liquor license thing that I think is a bigger issue. Let's talk about that. Let's
- turn it up.
- Alcohol, perfect. Can I give an intro? Sure, sure. So I did really deliberately want to separate this
- from the stadium district because it has been, I mean, we were talking about a riverfront district.
- We tried to separate them so that we could just focus on the name and not have it be tied to the alcohol.
- And then during that council meeting, it became really clear that there was a lot of concern about this.
- And so I think that calls for an opportunity to talk about the idea of permits that are allowable outside
- of the quota system in Bloomington in different contexts, because there are a number of ways that they
- could be allowed. And there are a number of ways that they're used as a tool across the state.
- And so what I gathered from the comments in our city council meeting were that there were a lot of concerns
- and I think we were accounting for some of them in the way that we were thinking about it, but there's
- just a lot of communication that has to happen first before we go anywhere near legislation. So what
- I thought today I would do is just share a little background information and just listen to
- your thoughts about this as an economic development tool. Is that okay? So this is just really basic.
- The ATC allows a certain number of permits in Bloomington based on the quota system. I believe it's,
- I've got the number, it's per 1,500 residents-ish and Bloomington hasn't had any
- added since 20, well for 10 years. Since the 20, maybe since the 2010 census because when the 2020 census
- hit our numbers were down and so we were not added any. There are a number of programs that allow a
- municipality to exceed that quota. I think Bloomington is eligible for two. Any programs
- related to these types of permits would be authorized by council, but they would be managed by the Indiana
- ATC. So it's not like all of a sudden the locals would be able to issue these permits. It's just we
- would make requests to the ATC. But this is the thing, the part that I think might be more interesting.
- So Riverfront districts, I just started looking for them and this is a
- not a complete list, but they're all over the place. Some of them are next to ditches, and some of them
- are next to actual rivers. The historic districts are a little more restrictive. I've had more trouble
- finding those, because you have to have the location of a historic jail, sheriff's residence,
- an opera house, and Bloomington happens to have those things. We do? Mm-hmm.
- in Fountain Square Mall. There's an old opera house on the corner. So if you look on the outside of
- the building, there's little rose-colored alcoves with vases sculpted in them. That was the front of
- the opera house. So this is just a very short list of what I think of as the pros and cons, I guess.
- And then I want to know what you think. Actually, this is out of order, though.
- There are those two programs. Oh, other state programs. So then there are a ton of other state programs
- that allow exceedance of the quota system. And we have some of these, right? We have a distillery. We
- have breweries. So we have those permits already. We don't have a lakefront. There's specific state
- code that actually just names cities and says, these cities get extra permits from their quota. So the
- state just decides, we're going to give you guys this.
- extra economic development incentive, because they know it's a critical driver of revenue. So the permits
- allowed in this state code are long-term assets. So I think a main thing to be aware of is that the
- permits that are allowable through the riverfront or the historic district, those are temporary.
- one year, non-transferable. So the quota permits, the ones that are per every 1,500, are major investments
- for businesses. People have paid $250,000. Someone just told me they paid $200,000 for theirs. And so
- there's a strong desire on the part of the people who are footing the bill for those expensive permits.
- They want to protect their investments, and they want to make sure that they're not devaluing them.
- Those long-term assets can be used to leverage debt. You can bank a business loan with those. You can
- transfer them. You can sell them. And people do, right? There's a whole economy of those permits in
- Bloomington, although I don't think it moves very much anymore. Is that a one-time charge, the 250?
- Yes, and then it's yours and you own it. So I think that a big concern is
- whether adding additional permits through the temporary annual programs would devalue the long-term
- assets. So that's listed as a con. But then these are just some of the other. And it goes on and on.
- They add them for historic theaters, for city markets, for malls. Hotels have their own permits.
- So the posture in Indiana was really restrictive for alcohol permits for a long time. And then you can
- see when you read the code gradually, they just add and add and add and add. Bloomington is a really
- interesting case because we have a population of, we have a larger population when the students here,
- but they're not part of our permanent population. So with our quotas, we,
- we likely don't actually have that one per 1,500 of our residents nine months of the year. So that has
- artificially driven up the price of our quota permits, in my opinion. So who sets the price? The market.
- The market. Yeah, and then I guess. Because if you own it, you can sell it. Sure. As long as it's an
- arm's length transaction, it's the market that's deciding. When I say arm's length, there's no deal.
- It's made and then if we were increase our quota were to increase Then the ATC would sell the first
- Permit so the state code sets prices for certain certain of the permits But ATC does set the initial
- price. Yeah, but the secondary market is I Think so, yeah
- So just to be clear, we're talking about the city of Louisville, because the county is different. The
- county is different. Yes, yes. Outside the city limits. That's what I understand, yeah. I had two county
- permits, but they were applied for them, or fee, not purchased for substantial sums. And that's probably because
- because of the supply and demand. Are they short term or long term? No, they're permanent. Yeah. But
- so like on Sarah Road, they have the restaurant there as well. And that's how it should be. They're
- not valuable, not expensive. You should be able to access them. A business owner should be able to access
- them. So when I think about what I believe this could do for our economy, I see small restaurants closing
- in Bloomington.
- And I think about small favors or I'm going to draw blanks right now. But we have had a number of food
- businesses close. Oh, Una would be another good one. They had wine only. But basically, you can control
- the parameters. And so you could say, only Monroe County headquartered businesses, Monroe County-owned
- businesses could be eligible for this within this footprint. Only restaurants.
- Like, the council could set the limits narrow enough that we're not gonna flood the market. I think
- if we were to entertain something like this, we would want to go very gingerly, be very ginger about
- it. And did you indicate we would be at most limited to two? Well, there are two programs that I think
- could be pursued. Oh, programs, okay. Yeah.
- I'm talking a lot when I really want feedback, but it felt like I needed to share some of the upfront
- information. So there are two ways that I think we could be eligible, and then the legislation could
- set limits on those. Once again, these are one-year temporary. And just to be clear, too, they're liquor,
- because beer and wine, they're three-way. They're three-way. Beer and wine license is relatively easy
- to get. Yeah, and they can be cheaper than that, even, I think.
- You can apply for them, and they're a few thousand dollars, something like that. Then process. So what
- we're talking about is the liquor freeway license. I just referenced that, because the small restaurants
- often can have a beer morning license. Right. Yeah, and I think the business case is just that restaurants,
- the margins are so bad on food, labor costs continue going up, supply chain.
- is really difficult for small businesses to manage. The way that businesses nationally are dealing with
- this is through technology. A lot of local shops don't have the ability to adopt, I don't know, online
- ordering technology or whatever to help minimize labor. It could be in the kitchen or it could be at
- point of sale. And so it's like, well, what else could we do to help
- local food establishments really generate more revenue. And the other challenge, so we talked about
- the population challenge with our quotas. We are a population that's larger than our census count. We're
- serving a population larger than our census count. And then also we're really a nine month economy.
- So our businesses and our small food businesses are especially challenged when, yeah, over December
- and then July and August.
- Do you think that will continue to play out as the Convention Center expands? I'm optimistic that that
- will buffer, especially in the summertime. And frankly, IU is working on some kind of, it's not just
- IU, it's a partnership, but on some summer programming that we hope will really kind of magnetize Bloomington
- at different times. So, yeah.
- I think it could make a difference for sure. The convention center, the expansion for the year round.
- I mean, they'll be able to attract much larger conventions now with the expansion. Yeah. What other
- questions? What are the areas, what do you see as risk areas or areas that you want? Do you think we
- should investigate more or? You mean locations?
- What are your initial thoughts about the idea of trying to access some of these programs that the state
- makes available? What are the things you think we should be considering? What do you think we should
- be talking to? Can the council delegate some of that oversight of the licenses to a body? Because I
- would hate to see the council. Yes.
- I mean, Jane, to be honest, I think we're talking about something we... I think we're heading left when
- we should be heading right or the opposite. I mean, if you look at the goals, grow the workforce population,
- grow wages, reinforce economic base, this is... I don't think it's on target. I mean...
- I think I can see where it would be. For the workforce population? Sure, if you help smaller restaurants
- stay viable. In a really small way. A small restaurant can have a two-way license. I mean, the businesses
- we've talked to and so many people have identified affordable. And I have four kids who left the community, okay?
- So that's part of the growing the work. I wish the four kids and their spouses would be back here as
- part of the workforce population. So that's my personal vendetta right now. And it's all housing
- affordability and job opportunities. I don't disagree with you, but I believe in doing things on the
- margin. I think this could have a real effect on the margin. I'm not against this. I wish we were focused
- on making housing
- homes, viable homes, whether they're condominiums or some other fashion. I wish we were focused on that.
- I don't think they're mutually exclusive. That's what I'm arguing. Well, except for our time and energy
- and the staff's time and energy. That's where I am. How much time does this take? I think it would take
- a significant amount of community outreach if we were to pursue this. But I'll also say, I think this
- lands very squarely under supporting small business development. And that does factor into the workforce
- attraction piece. Part of what has made Bloomington a really great place over the years is our independent
- culture, our point businesses, our exceptional food culture. And we know that if we're to attract workforce
- population, you have to have amenities. And frankly, Bloomington is not competing. It's Carmel,
- it's Fishers. That's where young people are going. And it's because there's
- we're not offering the right things for people in their 20s to want to stick around here. And I think
- being able to diversify this and also buttress these small businesses at the same time really helps
- do that. To your other point, there are some things I can't talk about yet, but we're working so hard.
- We're working mostly on housing, affordability, and incentives. That's what most of the
- most of my time is spent on. So this is definitely, I don't know what the right metaphor is, but this
- is definitely a side note to that, a grace note to that, but I think super important. Well, I'm not
- against it, but I am a little concerned about the whole impact of the culture of the university changing.
- being a football university and the seven or eight home games per year, that's a pretty long day. And
- so when it's packaged in with the stadium district, that's where, to me, it's pointed in the wrong direction.
- Obviously, four streets of treasure and all kinds of little restaurants, I go all the time and love
- them and do want to support them.
- If we get a couple extra liquor licenses, that would help a couple of restaurants. I'm not opposed to
- that, but that's likely to be... How would those restaurants surface to be able to get another liquor
- license or to get a liquor license? Well, we would have to just communicate publicly about it, right?
- And then is it first come first serve or there's criteria or both? Criteria. I think they're...
- there would have to be criteria. I think that we would want to craft that really deliberately so that
- if we wind up with more applicants than licenses, we really know how to choose, how to make the selection.
- So I think there would definitely be challenges to implementing the program, but I don't think it would
- be insurmountable. I think this feedback's really helpful, and I think that's why I really try to
- Slow down once I got a sense of where the public discourse was at the council meeting where it was brought
- up. I just remember hearing that an historic district permit was discussed maybe 15 years ago and all
- the businesses were traumatized from it and nobody wanted to touch it again. But I think if we go slow
- and engage everyone, I'd like to really see if we can find a way.
- Yeah, I just wanted to say something to Tim's point. By creating these liquor licenses as well and giving
- them to small businesses, it's helping the service economy that's already here. I hear a lot from service
- workers. There are limited places to work. They're not making a whole lot of money in tips and the lack
- of variety that Jane was talking about and that lack of
- and usage by young people is really affecting the server economy and the service economy that we have
- currently. So this would bolster and assist the workforce that we already have. So I think that that's
- something to also take into consideration that it's helping the people that already live here and will
- live here and continue to live here.
- I have a question, Jane. How much do you interact with other city departments, including utilities?
- Oh, all the time? Because it just occurs to me, I have been around a lot of small businesses and little
- restaurants, and the whole grease trap thing, that closed restaurants. Yes, and I don't know what you
- put in on there, but now they allow, it used to be, no matter what the size of your business was, you
- were putting a $30,000 tank in the ground. Whether you were even building a restaurant.
- If you're building a restaurant space, they wanted you to put in a $15,000 grease drive. Do you think
- that's been successfully, do you think it's successfully evolved, or do you think the challenge has
- remained? I don't know much about it. Yeah. My understanding is that they allow different technologies,
- so like green turtle, which uses, I can't think of what the name is, but it's like a type of a fiber,
- fibery plastic, and those can run closer to 12, 14 instead of,
- 30,000, but you have to have the ability to put it in your space. So my perception is that it's evolved
- in a better way. I think they do let buildings go up without the interceptors, but I don't know if that's
- an exception or a rule. Just in my experience with small business, it's that kind of thing. So even
- though you might be pushing to help small restaurants,
- There might be two thirds of the city administration, you know, whether they're taking the parking away
- or they're requiring grease traps or whatever, they're feeling like they're strangled. So I'm just saying.
- Look at the big stuff too. Yeah. Try to coordinate, coerce colleagues in other areas. You know, fire
- department, that's another one. I mean, really restrictive, really challenging.
- So anyway, I do think you could have a lot of impact. People may not know about it, but you could have
- a lot of impact. Yeah, that's good feedback. Well, did we talk it out? I think so. More to come, perhaps,
- or I don't know. Well, what are the next steps, right?
- I don't know. I think that it's coming up at some of our business group meetings. So I think we'll just
- make sure the conversation surface there and we'll continue talking with council members. There's no
- council members sponsoring three-way permit legislation at this time. So I think it's early days.
- for this, which is completely fine. I don't know if I answered your question. Is there an ultimate goal?
- My ultimate goal is? One of my goals is not to torture myself with legislation that's not going to go
- anywhere. Very good. Things like a good plan. Yeah. So I think I just want to explore more and see if-
- Before it becomes a possibility. Yeah, see if we want to do this as a community. Right. And if we don't, then.
- Is there a restaurant association here anymore? No, and we're really missing that. Yeah, Bira. They
- were important. They were very important. But we do have a lot of leadership in that community. It's
- just not a formal network, which then runs the risk of people not being included, businesses not being included.
- Of course, the beer has stood for independent restaurants, so I mean, there's a clear distinction between
- a chain and an independent. Yeah. I mean, that's just by nature of the name. Yeah. So the chains wouldn't
- be included, so they're a different operation. I laugh because at one point, Hopscotch was, under some
- local rule, considered a chain because we had more than one location. Yeah. So, you know. Oh yeah, they
- were a chain, too. Yeah. Anyway. Right.
- All right, no more discussion on the three-way licenses? No, just I want to say thanks for exploring
- that with me and thanks for asking questions and kind of extracting some information. Thanks for allowing
- my crabby. No, it's useful. I'm going to come show me some crabby, but. Do we have any old business
- to consider? I don't think so. Anything else? Not for me. Tim, Luz, Jane, Dee. Anything from anybody there?
- Casey anything else you want to say before we adjourn? I'm alright thanks. Okay thank you so we are
- adjourned.