WEBVTT 00:00:00.194 --> 00:00:11.866 - This is the Economic Development Commission meeting. It's Tuesday, August 18th, and it is about 4.07 p.m. 00:00:11.866 --> 00:00:23.208 - We're late because I came here late, my apologies. This meeting has been posted in accordance with the 00:00:23.208 --> 00:00:29.374 - open door law, et cetera, policy, et cetera, et cetera. 00:00:29.826 --> 00:00:40.697 - Okay. Um, why don't we do roll call? That's the first thing we're supposed to do. So. Liz Vidal. And. 00:00:40.697 --> 00:00:51.674 - Jim Hankey. And Kurt Zorn. And. Dee De La Rosa. Jane Coopersmith. And nobody in the audience. Just the 00:00:51.674 --> 00:00:59.134 - cats folks. Oh, okay. The real Chris MG. The real Chris MG. So Chris. 00:00:59.330 --> 00:01:07.604 - Is he, he's the attorney? Chamber. Chamber. Okay. Chris, you want to, we're doing roll call. You just 00:01:07.604 --> 00:01:15.879 - want to introduce yourself for roll call, please. Okay. All right. We'll just move on. Yeah. Approval 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:23.991 - of minutes. I'll make a motion. I did read them. Okay. Motion is for approval. I'll second. And Mr. 00:01:23.991 --> 00:01:27.966 - Henke is going to second it. So I hear a motion. 00:01:28.642 --> 00:01:35.911 - And a second, any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? All right. 00:01:35.911 --> 00:01:43.785 - New business. We don't have any new business, right Jane? Nope. Okay. But we do have some old business, 00:01:43.785 --> 00:01:51.811 - so. Some old business and just some updates. Maybe the thing I didn't include that I should have included 00:01:51.811 --> 00:01:58.398 - is that the opportunity zone application went in in July. So that was really exciting. 00:01:58.754 --> 00:02:06.456 - We applied for designation of opportunity zones in three census tracts. One is the census tract that 00:02:06.456 --> 00:02:14.540 - includes Seminary Park in the areas south, kind of going down to South High School. One includes Hopewell 00:02:14.540 --> 00:02:22.318 - and goes west from Second Street, no, Third Street south and makes its way kind of all the way almost 00:02:22.318 --> 00:02:28.190 - to the highway. So it's a pretty large census tract. And then the third one, 00:02:28.514 --> 00:02:35.049 - is kind of 17th on the north, Rogers Street on the east, third street on the south, all the way almost 00:02:35.049 --> 00:02:41.393 - to the highway again. So that's another large census tract with several commercial areas. But we're 00:02:41.393 --> 00:02:48.055 - optimistic. We think our application was really strong. Our consultant thought our application was ahead 00:02:48.055 --> 00:02:54.653 - of the pack in terms of all the communities they were helping. So we'll find out, we're told we'll find 00:02:54.653 --> 00:02:58.206 - out in September. We're not obligated to find out until 00:02:58.562 --> 00:03:07.027 - October. So fingers crossed. What do you know about implementation? What's the timeline? Let's assume 00:03:07.027 --> 00:03:15.575 - we will get at least one of these, maybe hopefully all three. But what happens after you find out that 00:03:15.575 --> 00:03:22.878 - they've been? They don't kick off until January 1, 2028. So we still have another year. 00:03:23.810 --> 00:03:35.567 - I believe of the old opportunity zones. Let me, let me just check myself. I'm so bad with information 00:03:35.567 --> 00:03:47.093 - recall. Nope. Effective January 1, 2027. Great. So it'll happen fast. So we've started meeting with 00:03:47.093 --> 00:03:51.358 - our consultant team, our JL, um, to, 00:03:52.130 --> 00:04:01.346 - build a marketing plan. So there are two key activities after designation. One is we have to market 00:04:01.346 --> 00:04:11.483 - our sites. We have to market our community and make it attractive to opportunity funds, qualified opportunity 00:04:11.483 --> 00:04:20.606 - funds across the country. So there's one local fund, but funds can invest in any opportunity zone. 00:04:20.930 --> 00:04:27.728 - a lot of large real estate development firms or they're savvy investors know how these things work and 00:04:27.728 --> 00:04:34.724 - can implement them. But we have to really plant our flag and make sure it's clear that we have investable 00:04:34.724 --> 00:04:41.588 - opportunities here. So that's one thing we have to market. And then the other piece is I think it would 00:04:41.588 --> 00:04:48.254 - really be beneficial for the community if there were a local qualified opportunity fund investing in 00:04:48.254 --> 00:04:49.310 - local projects. 00:04:49.474 --> 00:04:58.254 - What would that be here? Do we have one? No, we don't have one. The city can't establish it. The program 00:04:58.254 --> 00:05:06.615 - is really built to foster private investment in these census tracts, so it really does sideline the 00:05:06.615 --> 00:05:13.054 - government in a way, in kind of a good way. So we could have multiple funds. 00:05:13.218 --> 00:05:21.177 - or maybe an entity would- How do people know to establish them or how do they get created? There are 00:05:21.177 --> 00:05:29.372 - some informed community members that are talking about it now. I know because they've sent me questions 00:05:29.372 --> 00:05:37.488 - off and on. There could be a convening, maybe by ROI or someone. ROI. Regional Opportunity Initiative. 00:05:37.488 --> 00:05:41.822 - Okay. Or people might establish their own funds. Okay. 00:05:42.466 --> 00:05:54.406 - Very open. OK. Is there any zoning changes that go along with any planned zoning? Not with that. That 00:05:54.406 --> 00:06:07.166 - is just purely about the tax relief for the investments. But that might be a good conversation to have about 00:06:08.066 --> 00:06:15.879 - specific area, were there specific areas you were thinking about? No, I mean, I've heard that there's 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:23.691 - some conversation about taking some of that South Walnut Street out of the downtown zone to encourage 00:06:23.691 --> 00:06:32.116 - something to happen. Yeah. Because the downtown zone is hard. Yes. Because the downtown zone is so difficult. 00:06:32.116 --> 00:06:38.014 - Yes, it is. I think there is a lot of chatter about that and I think there's 00:06:38.114 --> 00:06:46.088 - um, not a real clear understanding of what process would have to be followed. But, um, I think it is, 00:06:46.088 --> 00:06:54.218 - um, but there, and this is something that I think we'll be talking about maybe at our next meeting too. 00:06:54.218 --> 00:07:02.504 - I've been working on, um, kind of compiling incentives that would apply for the area surrounding seminary 00:07:02.504 --> 00:07:07.038 - and South. So the opportunity zone being one of them, um, 00:07:07.746 --> 00:07:15.097 - But I hope to have maybe some business for you all to consider and approve at our next meeting related 00:07:15.097 --> 00:07:21.806 - to that. But it's not related to zoning. But that's coming up as part of this discussion. You 00:07:21.806 --> 00:07:29.014 - can incentivize. You can have the best suite of incentives. But if the zoning's wrong, then projects 00:07:29.014 --> 00:07:36.222 - still won't go forward. Yeah. The problem with the outside opportunity zone funds that the gentleman 00:07:36.802 --> 00:07:44.099 - that was at the Opportunity Zone meeting that wants to redevelop the fell site. Yes. Sorry, I can't 00:07:44.099 --> 00:07:51.468 - remember his name, but yeah. It doesn't come to mind, but out of town, big box apartment developers. 00:07:51.468 --> 00:07:58.984 - That's about all we've had. I don't think we're looking. We need to go beyond that. Yeah. Yeah. So the 00:07:58.984 --> 00:08:04.894 - benefit of the having a local fund is that the proceeds stay local, the projects 00:08:05.602 --> 00:08:12.872 - maybe more beneficial to the community rather than to the bottom line. But the fund doesn't have to 00:08:12.872 --> 00:08:20.869 - be nonprofit. Like the way the program is engineered truly is to foster investment in these highly distressed 00:08:20.869 --> 00:08:28.358 - census tracts. And I believe the Trump administration, when they crafted the 1.0 version of this, they 00:08:28.358 --> 00:08:33.374 - really wanted it to appeal to the private sector. And so there's no, 00:08:34.434 --> 00:08:44.812 - There's no affordable housing requirement. There's just no requirement other than making qualified 00:08:44.812 --> 00:08:55.504 - investments. So it's interesting in that way. Any more on that, or do you want me to jump to the? OK. 00:08:55.504 --> 00:09:04.414 - The next old business item is the strategic sites initiative. Just as a reminder, we 00:09:05.762 --> 00:09:15.654 - talked about this at our last meeting, the utility service board amended their rules and regs in January 00:09:15.654 --> 00:09:25.546 - to allow extension of service outside city limits for strategic economic development sites and projects. 00:09:25.546 --> 00:09:31.198 - And so staff recommended they issued a will serve letter to 00:09:31.362 --> 00:09:38.655 - the Monroe County Airport, which was great. And I think you all retroactively approved that. The timing 00:09:38.655 --> 00:09:46.159 - just didn't work out to come to this body first. And so at the end of our discussion, at our last meeting, 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:53.312 - you all wanted to know what other sites could we consider for approval. And then we talked about what 00:09:53.312 --> 00:09:58.782 - other parts of the legislation needed to be created in order to make it work. 00:09:59.650 --> 00:10:07.345 - just preliminary, not even preliminary, discussions of potential sites have kind of filtered down to 00:10:07.345 --> 00:10:15.040 - one site where we think it's really needed. And I'll see if I can screen share to pull. I made you a 00:10:15.040 --> 00:10:22.430 - cohost, you should be good. Okay. I don't know if you need to take action today, you could, but. 00:10:31.490 --> 00:10:44.001 - really hard to get a full screen view from Beacon, so this is hard to see. Yeah, so this is Vernal Pike 00:10:44.001 --> 00:10:55.550 - and Woodyard Road, and it's 53.09 acres. It's zoned commercial. It was considered for different 00:10:55.906 --> 00:11:03.234 - key developments. It was considered for the YMCA at one point. It was considered for a print pack at 00:11:03.234 --> 00:11:10.634 - one point, but it hasn't really developed. There's a little more recon that I want to do. I'm waiting 00:11:10.634 --> 00:11:18.034 - for some historic information from City of Bloomington Utilities. There is a utility services stubbed 00:11:18.034 --> 00:11:24.926 - out adjacent to the parcel, which the property owner said was done when the road was complete. 00:11:25.506 --> 00:11:36.526 - for their benefit, which would have been 15 years ago, I think. But it's unclear whether there was a 00:11:36.526 --> 00:11:47.547 - commitment to extend service. In any case, it's a great site in that it's close to Bloomington. It's 00:11:47.547 --> 00:11:55.294 - well connected. It's, hi Steve, has proximal utility service and yeah. 00:11:55.554 --> 00:12:02.045 - and it's substantial, so it's large enough to do something meaningful. But this is the site that's really 00:12:02.045 --> 00:12:08.474 - risen to the top. Other sites that we- They didn't come up for jail discussion? It did come up for jail. 00:12:08.474 --> 00:12:14.781 - Not when I was donating with the jail. Oh, well, it came up in other conversations that I've had about 00:12:14.781 --> 00:12:21.455 - the jail. I thought it was circulating for that. Not when I was a part of it, this last summer. Interesting. 00:12:21.455 --> 00:12:23.966 - Well, and I think that's an interesting, 00:12:25.538 --> 00:12:34.454 - thing to think about because this program. We were supposed to find something in the city. Yeah. Right. 00:12:34.454 --> 00:12:43.455 - Yeah. I'm being careful to not be out over my skis and dipping my toe in the jail location conversation. 00:12:43.455 --> 00:12:52.542 - But you can talk about it all you want. Tell us anything. Tell us everything. I lost my train of thought. 00:12:52.802 --> 00:13:01.612 - But the purpose of this program is to return is really to foster economic development. That's the big 00:13:01.612 --> 00:13:10.508 - why. And it's also to drive revenue for the city. We're not that altruistic. We need to drive revenue. 00:13:10.508 --> 00:13:19.231 - And this is a way to do that that's also beneficial for everyone. And so I think that this strategic 00:13:19.231 --> 00:13:22.686 - sites program would only extend service 00:13:23.458 --> 00:13:31.049 - in exchange for major capital expenditures and job creation, going back on the tax rules. And annexation 00:13:31.049 --> 00:13:38.495 - or no? This program does not require annexation. Okay. Yeah. So this is not... It doesn't preclude it. 00:13:38.495 --> 00:13:45.797 - Like they could, I think they could probably swap their... Like if there were an employer that chose 00:13:45.797 --> 00:13:51.870 - this site, met requirements, got a recommendation from the commission and approval, 00:13:52.994 --> 00:14:01.064 - whatever approvals were needed. So that's right by the kennel. There's a kennel right there where it 00:14:01.064 --> 00:14:09.533 - says Wood Yard Road is to the right of the kennel. Yeah. Wayport Kennel is there. Yeah. So is it adjacent 00:14:09.533 --> 00:14:17.523 - to the city? Do you know? Yeah, let me put the boundaries. Let me make sure I've got the boundaries 00:14:17.523 --> 00:14:21.918 - up. There's so many. So many options. So many options. 00:14:25.058 --> 00:14:42.150 - Zoom out. It's hard to see sometimes. No. I think he is. Really? Yeah. Are you serious? I think so. 00:14:42.150 --> 00:14:51.038 - Tom, I'm gonna forget his name. Our contact is Tom. 00:15:08.418 --> 00:15:21.592 - I'm sorry, I can't get a view that shows where corporation limits are, but they're really close. They're 00:15:21.592 --> 00:15:34.014 - maybe multiple parcels away, but not a half mile away. I'm not requesting approval today because I 00:15:34.338 --> 00:15:42.385 - would like to button up the history of the discussion with CBU and just make sure I understand what 00:15:42.385 --> 00:15:50.674 - they, you died in 2014. What was committed, if anything, to the property. And then, otherwise, I think 00:15:50.674 --> 00:15:58.802 - this would be a really good one to consider. And the airport is not under consideration for, I mean, 00:15:58.802 --> 00:16:03.550 - for us to do anything? It's already done. It's done? Yeah. 00:16:04.162 --> 00:16:13.590 - So the last meeting, if I remember right, you were talking about different stipulations you would put 00:16:13.590 --> 00:16:23.295 - on it in exchange for sewer service. And we were to discuss that. But is that over? No. So last meeting, 00:16:23.295 --> 00:16:32.631 - we had two buckets that we were legislatively considering. And one is, how do we determine if it's a 00:16:32.631 --> 00:16:34.110 - strategic site? 00:16:34.498 --> 00:16:43.096 - Would we want to require a certain amount of CAPEX? Would we want to require a certain amount of jobs? 00:16:43.096 --> 00:16:51.527 - Would we want to require a certain, that wages be a certain percentage above AMI? So it's like, what 00:16:51.527 --> 00:17:00.125 - makes a strategic site? And then on the other hand, there was another question about like, what should 00:17:00.125 --> 00:17:02.462 - an agreement look like with 00:17:03.874 --> 00:17:12.093 - the recipient of a strategic site benefit. Should we set a flat rate at which they would be charged? 00:17:12.093 --> 00:17:20.475 - So if the employer, would they pay, for example, 75% of what they would be charged for property taxes? 00:17:20.475 --> 00:17:28.694 - A model similar to payment in lieu of taxes. Yeah, very similar to payment in lieu. And the city has 00:17:28.694 --> 00:17:32.926 - had payment in lieu of taxes and payment in lieu of 00:17:33.026 --> 00:17:40.437 - annexation agreements in the past. And this needs to go in a memo to the group, but just reflecting 00:17:40.437 --> 00:17:47.996 - on where I've landed with this. I think my recommendation is that we don't set a specific rate. These 00:17:47.996 --> 00:17:55.629 - agreements have existed for a long time. They've always been negotiated individually with the property 00:17:55.629 --> 00:18:01.854 - owner. And that seems appropriate to me, given that the range of capital investment 00:18:03.074 --> 00:18:12.897 - It could range widely. And so if we set a high bar for a small property but it's beneficial for one 00:18:12.897 --> 00:18:22.818 - reason or another, might we inadvertently count that project out by assigning too much burden to it? 00:18:22.818 --> 00:18:29.694 - Or conversely, if it is the project that can tolerate a heavy burden, 00:18:29.794 --> 00:18:38.020 - than we want to assign that to it. So it just seems like it's beneficial to retain flexibility in those 00:18:38.020 --> 00:18:46.325 - negotiations. Can this be used for housing? The policy that was introduced for the utility service board 00:18:46.325 --> 00:18:54.472 - rules and regs was for economic development specifically. So a part of the complex, so to speak, would 00:18:54.472 --> 00:18:56.766 - not be economic development. 00:18:57.154 --> 00:19:02.830 - I think so, even though we all know we need housing for our economy. But I mean, I can get a lawyer 00:19:02.830 --> 00:19:08.676 - to... I would like to find out actually. I mean, especially with SEMTRA going out there. They're a big 00:19:08.676 --> 00:19:14.523 - expansion and hiring more employees. Well, they're already under a PILOA. That whole property is under 00:19:14.523 --> 00:19:20.369 - a payment and loan agreement. I know. I know. We gave them an abatement and everything, but the county 00:19:20.369 --> 00:19:22.526 - gave them an abatement, I should say. 00:19:23.010 --> 00:19:33.875 - I think they'll have many more employees eventually out in that region and this property is very close 00:19:33.875 --> 00:19:44.845 - to that. So housing would be prime there. That would be so convenient. So I'd really like to know. That 00:19:44.845 --> 00:19:52.862 - would be lovely to find out. So where do you plan to move from here on that 00:19:53.026 --> 00:20:04.614 - on this subject. So I would, I'd like to come back with a memo that makes some kind of formal recommendation 00:20:04.614 --> 00:20:15.776 - to you guys. And the last meeting we looked at a proposed rubric for evaluating sites. And after sitting 00:20:15.776 --> 00:20:22.686 - with us for a little bit longer, I now think that's overwrought. 00:20:23.362 --> 00:20:32.261 - and so that was my opinion at the time yeah yeah oh good i mean it's similar to what you just said as 00:20:32.261 --> 00:20:41.335 - to the payment and lieu negotiation it's very hard to predict what some entity would bring to the table 00:20:41.335 --> 00:20:48.926 - because it could be jobs or it could be some other thing that we need in our community 00:20:49.186 --> 00:20:56.798 - You know, it could be a capital investment that somehow makes a big difference to us. I don't know. 00:20:56.798 --> 00:21:04.562 - But I would want, my thinking is that more general statement about bringing benefit to the community. 00:21:04.562 --> 00:21:12.326 - Curt, you've had more experience with that kind of... Jay and I have already talked a little bit. I'm 00:21:12.326 --> 00:21:14.686 - on the same track that Jay is. 00:21:16.834 --> 00:21:26.113 - Yeah. So why don't I just bring a more formal document back to you guys that you can, you can vote on. 00:21:26.113 --> 00:21:35.393 - I mean, it's interesting because legislatively there's not a, there's not a formal role. Like the, the 00:21:35.393 --> 00:21:44.222 - rules and regs at CBU say that staff can name a site strategic. I just preferred that we have it. 00:21:44.866 --> 00:21:52.602 - reviewed by the Economic Development Commission and have a recommendation from the EDC. So I think we 00:21:52.602 --> 00:22:00.187 - should basically identify a process for that. And some kind of basic rule of thumb guidelines that, 00:22:00.187 --> 00:22:08.378 - I mean, if we wanted to consider housing, we could recommend it. I'm not sure. Yeah. Okay. But flexibility, 00:22:08.378 --> 00:22:14.142 - I do think is important because it is very hard to look into the future and 00:22:14.498 --> 00:22:22.737 - you know, at that last meeting, there was talk about wage levels and numbers of employees and energy 00:22:22.737 --> 00:22:31.139 - use, et cetera, et cetera, and it gets, it's too much. Because somebody might use almost no energy and 00:22:31.139 --> 00:22:39.296 - that would make it a better use or, you know, it's just, it's hard to predict. Great. Yeah. Okay. I 00:22:39.296 --> 00:22:44.190 - think come back with a recommendation. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:52.899 - The next item is a quick update. We talked about this quite a while ago, the three-way alcohol permits. 00:22:52.899 --> 00:23:00.695 - I have been working with council member Asari. I mean, he's driving the legislation, but I'm just excited 00:23:00.695 --> 00:23:08.344 - that we're moving it forward. I wanted to circle back and update you on that. The first step is a piece 00:23:08.344 --> 00:23:13.566 - of legislation recommending eligibility criteria, which is the biggest 00:23:15.458 --> 00:23:23.689 - the biggest thing that the community and the council have to figure out who's eligible, what do we want 00:23:23.689 --> 00:23:31.604 - to use this for? That's what the current legislation does. It was introduced at the end of July and 00:23:31.604 --> 00:23:39.756 - we'll go back to the city council for second reading September 4th. I'm hopeful that we'll get to pass 00:23:39.756 --> 00:23:44.030 - that and then we'll consider legislation for what are 00:23:44.258 --> 00:23:51.021 - what we're calling district permits, basically a riverfront district and historic district. Um, and 00:23:51.021 --> 00:23:57.783 - then a downtown district are all allowed to have, um, additional three-way licenses, um, beyond the 00:23:57.783 --> 00:24:04.681 - state quota. And we have maps for downtown and historic. Uh, we don't have a proposed riverfront yet, 00:24:04.681 --> 00:24:11.038 - although initially we looked at Miller showers and that will come back. Like we think that's. 00:24:11.234 --> 00:24:19.400 - That should be one. We think that, um. Yeah. Any moving, moving body of water. Can we have a casino 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:27.648 - water too? If you can float it. Yeah. Anything, anything you guys want, EDC, just to make it happen. 00:24:27.648 --> 00:24:35.813 - So that's, that's exciting. So it'll trail. There's a lot more to do with it, but it's moving along 00:24:35.813 --> 00:24:40.958 - and there seems to be good feedback and even support from some 00:24:41.666 --> 00:24:53.549 - previous detractors. So yeah, good for small, small businesses. Um, and then the last item on this list, 00:24:53.549 --> 00:25:02.942 - uh, David Hittle came to our last meeting to talk about, um, sorry, I need to find 00:25:14.722 --> 00:25:24.661 - please to talk about limited compliance updates to the UDO. So this is the staff presentation that went 00:25:24.661 --> 00:25:34.409 - to the plan commission on August 10th. And I thought we could just walk through it. I'm still working 00:25:34.409 --> 00:25:43.870 - to understand how this will impact potential developers or property owners. But so far, I think it 00:25:44.194 --> 00:25:51.640 - will be really positive. I think David's strategy was to put forth something that he thought could get 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:58.869 - approved relatively easily. So that's what this is. This is David's vision. And I think Lynn Coyne, 00:25:58.869 --> 00:26:06.315 - our interim planning director, and I are still trying to understand whether this does enough. So we're 00:26:06.315 --> 00:26:13.182 - working on that. But if you're OK with it, I thought we would just walk through this together. 00:26:13.410 --> 00:26:22.650 - And then this will go back to the plan commission, I believe on September 14th. And then after plan 00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:32.074 - commission, it will have to go to the common council. A lot of words. So it's really trying to tackle 00:26:32.074 --> 00:26:42.238 - limited compliance. So from the planning perspective, they talk about limited compliance and full compliance. 00:26:42.594 --> 00:26:50.300 - And so there are a certain set of activities previously that would trigger limited compliance where 00:26:50.300 --> 00:26:58.083 - you have to do a large number of amendments to your property, adjust your parking lot, plant a bunch 00:26:58.083 --> 00:27:06.174 - of trees. Remove parking is often one of the things that is requested. And that was triggered just by an 00:27:06.402 --> 00:27:13.285 - a large number of activities. This removes the requirement that a subdivision, so subdividing a property 00:27:13.285 --> 00:27:19.841 - would require it to come into compliance, adjusts the threshold for a new building construction. So 00:27:19.841 --> 00:27:26.856 - if your new building is less than 25% of the square footage of the existing structures, it'll only trigger 00:27:26.856 --> 00:27:33.543 - limited compliance rather than full compliance. So if you're adding a structure, a small structure to 00:27:33.543 --> 00:27:34.526 - your property, 00:27:34.690 --> 00:27:42.373 - You would now be able to do that without having to go into full compliance provided you're within that 00:27:42.373 --> 00:27:50.130 - 25 percent threshold Expansion of parking areas less than 25 percent to be exempt from limited and full 00:27:50.130 --> 00:27:57.663 - compliance Yeah, so there's a lot about parking Maximums allows existing parking lots with 14 spaces 00:27:57.663 --> 00:27:58.558 - or less and 00:27:59.266 --> 00:28:04.864 - to not have to remove parking spaces in situations where limited compliance is triggered. So this one 00:28:04.864 --> 00:28:10.517 - has come up a number of times in the past year where there's a modification to a site. Part of why the 00:28:10.517 --> 00:28:16.170 - business was interested in that location is because it came with a parking lot, but they find out that 00:28:16.170 --> 00:28:21.714 - if they're going to update anything related to their building, then they have to remove parking that 00:28:21.714 --> 00:28:27.312 - attracted them there in the first place. So this is just saying if it's 14 spaces or fewer, we're not 00:28:27.312 --> 00:28:28.190 - gonna touch it. 00:28:28.802 --> 00:28:37.307 - adjust threshold for building additions that was mentioned above, removes one of the change in use triggers. 00:28:37.307 --> 00:28:45.734 - A new use that is not in the same subheading as the previous use will no longer trigger limited compliance. 00:28:45.734 --> 00:28:53.614 - See, this one I don't understand. A new use. Would we have to see what Table 03-1 is? Probably. Does 00:28:53.614 --> 00:28:58.686 - it only apply to those uses in Table 03-1? Those last two items, 00:28:58.914 --> 00:29:12.729 - to me, among the most important. Well, let's figure it out. Let me pause. Or if you get the link first, 00:29:12.729 --> 00:29:26.412 - will you just chat it to me? Yep. It's so big. All right. I think it's just the big monster use table. 00:29:26.412 --> 00:29:28.670 - I think so, too. 00:29:31.682 --> 00:29:46.452 - Oh, my computer's having a hard time opening. Here I got it. Okay. Cool. So this is a funny version. 00:29:46.452 --> 00:30:00.638 - Is this what it is now? It's in a Google doc because of accessibility. So, um, did Lynn make an, 00:30:01.026 --> 00:30:11.121 - Additional presentation or you just ran with David's? Staff made this presentation we decided okay, 00:30:11.121 --> 00:30:21.318 - let's see What the discussion is and you know learn learn more about it, okay, so what we're looking 00:30:21.318 --> 00:30:27.678 - at though Those notes those were David's that was David's plan 00:30:28.674 --> 00:30:35.300 - the notes. Well, we were just getting on the screen. So that was the formal staff presentation to the 00:30:35.300 --> 00:30:41.861 - plan commission last week. So it may be more than what David suggested. It is the same as. It is the 00:30:41.861 --> 00:30:48.551 - same as. That's my question. Thank you. For some reason, I'm having trouble loading the table. Is this 00:30:48.551 --> 00:30:55.177 - the version that pops up for you? No, I took it from the BMC, so I just sent you a link to that chat. 00:30:55.177 --> 00:30:56.606 - Oh, OK, great. Sweet. 00:30:57.250 --> 00:31:06.634 - Yeah, I took it from Unicode, so you should be able to see it. There we go, that huge, awesome table. 00:31:06.634 --> 00:31:16.018 - Yeah, so... So the table of all uses? It's the whole thing. Okay. So I'm going to just go back to the 00:31:16.018 --> 00:31:19.422 - slide deck because I think that's... 00:31:32.162 --> 00:31:40.031 - So I'll give you guys an example of what we're talking about. There was a, on West 18th Street, somewhere 00:31:40.031 --> 00:31:47.825 - around J&S Locksmith, on the south side of the road, I think it was a daycare. They went out of business 00:31:47.825 --> 00:31:55.842 - or something. A school. Perfect example. Yeah, it's a good example of this issue. They went out of business 00:31:55.842 --> 00:32:02.078 - or something. Another business serving autistic kids came in and they were required 00:32:02.370 --> 00:32:10.590 - at least once. I don't know if it's changed or debated or anything else, but originally it was interpreted 00:32:10.590 --> 00:32:18.580 - that it was a change of use to serve autistic kids versus daycare. And that change of use required them 00:32:18.580 --> 00:32:26.339 - to spend a massive amount of money on landscape and sidewalk out front, eliminate some parking, do a 00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:29.566 - number of things. It was a really, it was 00:32:29.794 --> 00:32:37.741 - like hair splitting, it was required by the codes. Staff was following the code. But because the kids 00:32:37.741 --> 00:32:46.234 - were having one-on-one appointments, it functioned more like a clinic than a school, even though effectively 00:32:46.234 --> 00:32:54.337 - it was still service provision for children. So that was where the rubber hit the road. But under this, 00:32:54.337 --> 00:32:58.622 - so looking at the next to last bullet, this is saying, 00:32:59.522 --> 00:33:05.720 - it wouldn't trigger limited compliance. So removes one of the change in use triggers, a new use that 00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:12.164 - is not in the same subheading as the previous use will no longer trigger limited compliance. That double 00:33:12.164 --> 00:33:18.362 - negative is weird. I think the double negative is incorrect. So I think what the legislation does is 00:33:18.362 --> 00:33:24.806 - if it's under the same subheading. And I don't know if that's far enough or not. Yeah, okay. Personally, 00:33:24.806 --> 00:33:29.470 - I don't know if they're going far enough. Can you write that question down? 00:33:29.890 --> 00:33:38.149 - just clarifying the 0301 statement. In my opinion, we need to be much more flexible in that category 00:33:38.149 --> 00:33:46.409 - because it was a school for kids. Many of us would say similar use. The next one is interesting too. 00:33:46.409 --> 00:33:54.832 - Adjust the abandonment threshold. Improvements to a site will not be triggered by redevelopment unless 00:33:54.832 --> 00:33:58.430 - the property has been vacant for two years. 00:33:59.746 --> 00:34:07.205 - This applies for, I use the drive-through example. There are drive-throughs on South Walnut. They've 00:34:07.205 --> 00:34:15.180 - been vacant for a number of years. If someone had opened a new drive-through immediately after the previous 00:34:15.180 --> 00:34:23.230 - drive-through closed and there were no vacancy, then it would be able to operate. But because the property's 00:34:23.230 --> 00:34:28.030 - been vacant for a significant amount of time, under the previous 00:34:28.898 --> 00:34:35.609 - under the current rule, if it's vacant for a year, then... Are you certain of that? Yeah, because that's 00:34:35.609 --> 00:34:42.065 - what this... Oh, I think it's a year. I thought it was six months. Oh, you might be right. Two years 00:34:42.065 --> 00:34:48.265 - is better. Yeah. But to the same... Do you understand what I'm saying? I understand what I mean, 00:34:48.265 --> 00:34:54.592 - I'm hearing. So, yeah, so then the question is, does two years, it's an improvement, does it help? 00:34:54.592 --> 00:34:56.254 - I mean, those properties, 00:34:56.354 --> 00:35:05.492 - around Miller, around Seminary Park, for example. They've been vacant for so long. Yeah. Okay. So, so 00:35:05.492 --> 00:35:14.809 - my opinion is that there are a lot of things that are code and especially in this compliance triggering 00:35:14.809 --> 00:35:25.022 - that keeps people from improving businesses. And this is a step towards that. I don't know if it's enough or not. 00:35:26.690 --> 00:35:40.683 - It's not the two years it makes a difference to me. So now it's citing the changes. So these are the 00:35:40.683 --> 00:35:55.230 - edits. So I mean, this might be a little too granular for us to really comprehend in our public meeting. 00:35:57.442 --> 00:36:05.195 - We can link to this maybe in our, we can add the link to our agenda. That'd be helpful. And I can share 00:36:05.195 --> 00:36:12.947 - it. So are you wanting us to recommend what you have here? I'm informing you that, so backing the frame 00:36:12.947 --> 00:36:20.626 - way up. The EDC doesn't have a role in approving. You could choose to recommend, make a recommendation 00:36:20.626 --> 00:36:26.142 - to common council or plan commission. I think that would be totally fine. 00:36:26.530 --> 00:36:33.979 - That hasn't happened in the past, but again, we're trying to use this group as more of an advisory body, 00:36:33.979 --> 00:36:41.499 - which I think you have a lot of expertise we can benefit from. So if you wanted to make a recommendation, 00:36:41.499 --> 00:36:48.593 - you could. Otherwise, I'm just informing you that these UDO changes that were discussed a couple of 00:36:48.593 --> 00:36:55.262 - months ago are now going forward. And we raised the issue here because it was determined that 00:36:55.746 --> 00:37:05.243 - These are some of the problems preventing growth and real estate development from happening in Bloomington. 00:37:05.243 --> 00:37:14.037 - Yeah, I'd like to see us more involved in promoting economic development. And the two entities that 00:37:14.037 --> 00:37:23.006 - we would consult to, we are tonight. CBU for the strategic property and planning commission for this. 00:37:24.706 --> 00:37:34.718 - Yeah. I was supposed to meet with David and talk about that, this issue. And we met briefly once and 00:37:34.718 --> 00:37:44.532 - agreed to meet again and he moved. Nothing I said. It was nothing I said. But anyway, if we could, 00:37:44.532 --> 00:37:52.958 - you know, help nudge some improvements in these areas, we'll need it in places like, 00:37:53.858 --> 00:38:00.637 - the Opportunity Zone South, the seminary square. Yeah, absolutely. So does the language there, does 00:38:00.637 --> 00:38:07.552 - that apply to all city properties? Yes. It does, okay. It's a change in the UDL. Okay. So an example, 00:38:07.552 --> 00:38:14.534 - there was another business on West 17th Street that wanted to do a little addition and they would have 00:38:14.534 --> 00:38:21.652 - lost a lot of parking and the sidewalk and other improvements were massively expensive. And these little 00:38:21.652 --> 00:38:23.550 - businesses are going at it. 00:38:24.066 --> 00:38:30.122 - You know, we don't have as many local business as we used to have. It's too hard to be in business. 00:38:30.122 --> 00:38:36.420 - Yeah, they can't afford improvements. They can't afford anything. And then when you want to change your 00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:42.658 - storefront because it needs an upgrade, then you've got to change everything else. Yeah, this business 00:38:42.658 --> 00:38:48.835 - had a chance to get a different franchise affiliation or something. But they had to invest and it was 00:38:48.835 --> 00:38:53.438 - too expensive. Couldn't do it. Well, it makes me wonder what triggered what 00:38:53.538 --> 00:39:01.229 - is there now, right? So something triggered the language you have, right? Yeah. But our UDL, as David 00:39:01.229 --> 00:39:08.919 - Hittle and I agreed, is a massive layering of wish lists. And it's an ideal thing if we could pull it 00:39:08.919 --> 00:39:16.534 - off, but it becomes a... Well, there's rationality and there's reality, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And 00:39:16.534 --> 00:39:20.606 - I think the reality that we're living is we're seeing 00:39:20.834 --> 00:39:28.354 - we're seeing properties not develop. We're seeing blight. We're seeing blight in Bloomington. I mean, 00:39:28.354 --> 00:39:35.800 - it's shocking. Now we're getting accustomed to it because it's been happening for a little while. So 00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:43.320 - I think this is an attempt to readjust. And yeah, to Tim's point, the question is, does it do enough? 00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:50.398 - It doesn't in my opinion, but it's a start. Okay, so I'll add this to the agenda and share this 00:39:50.562 --> 00:39:58.597 - slide deck, I'll share the link to all the planned commission meeting materials so you can see it. And 00:39:58.597 --> 00:40:06.475 - then of course, Lynn is on his toes, but he's very, I mean, this is top priority for him, so. It is, 00:40:06.475 --> 00:40:14.822 - yeah, yeah. So if you want a meeting with him or anyone else, or I can invite him to our next EDC meeting. 00:40:14.822 --> 00:40:17.630 - And he knows his stuff. Yeah. Yeah. 00:40:20.354 --> 00:40:29.008 - I've been lucky to travel lately in some small towns and gosh, I see a lot more small business in other 00:40:29.008 --> 00:40:37.495 - towns than we have here. And there's a gentleman that I met recently, Student Alumni Association, and 00:40:37.495 --> 00:40:46.398 - he comes back from California and he said over the years, that's the thing that he knows about Bloomington 00:40:46.398 --> 00:40:48.062 - changing. You know? 00:40:48.610 --> 00:40:54.932 - If you watch Breaking Away or something, I know that's very nostalgic, but there are a lot of small 00:40:54.932 --> 00:41:01.571 - businesses, and we don't have as many anymore. And it's harder to be a small business. You know, Amazon, 00:41:01.571 --> 00:41:08.020 - who knows how many they put out. I mean, you know, Amazon, Walmart, et cetera. It is harder, but some 00:41:08.020 --> 00:41:12.382 - towns do it better. I don't know how or why. Any thoughts, Mr. Zorn? 00:41:16.290 --> 00:41:22.934 - We have a lot of specific challenges. I always think our nine month economy is part of it, right? We 00:41:22.934 --> 00:41:29.513 - have a dead month in the winter and two in the summer. And then our cost of real estate is so high. 00:41:29.513 --> 00:41:36.158 - So layers like this just make it totally impossible. And then for small businesses, cost of labor is 00:41:36.158 --> 00:41:38.526 - killing them and the way chains and 00:41:39.202 --> 00:41:44.788 - you know, national companies are dealing with it is through automation, but it's really hard for local 00:41:44.788 --> 00:41:50.210 - players to have automated solutions. So, you know, Dee is our small business development person and 00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:55.850 - you know, any advantage we can give our locals we want to. And I think another issue is that, you know, 00:41:55.850 --> 00:42:01.381 - it's not for people not wanting to start small businesses, but when you're talking about how much you 00:42:01.381 --> 00:42:06.750 - have to pay for rent and then a lease or how much you have to pay for a mortgage and then a lease. 00:42:07.010 --> 00:42:13.324 - to have your business. Like, I mean, that compounding right there in real estate, that'll put you off 00:42:13.324 --> 00:42:20.071 - pretty quick on trying to start, put something in a storefront. So, you know, I mean, it's, it's a multitude 00:42:20.071 --> 00:42:26.818 - of things that stuck upon each other. But I think that this is- You mean like the personal, your individual- 00:42:26.818 --> 00:42:33.194 - Yeah. Living costs of living are already high. Right. And you add high business operating costs on top 00:42:33.194 --> 00:42:34.494 - of that. Yeah. Yeah. 00:42:35.202 --> 00:42:41.928 - that really, I think that's stopping a lot of younger people from starting their businesses here, 00:42:41.928 --> 00:42:48.792 - for sure. But I think that these changes, although I do agree with you, probably don't go as far as 00:42:48.792 --> 00:42:55.724 - they should, are a start for those that we already have here. Now it's just trying to clear the path 00:42:55.724 --> 00:43:02.657 - and make way for others to start their business as well. I think some of it's attitude, too. We need 00:43:02.657 --> 00:43:04.510 - to preach this to our team 00:43:05.090 --> 00:43:14.135 - across around the building and our city council and county council people. We're all on the same page. 00:43:14.135 --> 00:43:23.794 - I do, flipping back to the alcohol permits, they're really specifically intended to benefit local restaurants 00:43:23.794 --> 00:43:32.926 - really. So I think they get the message. I think the council gets it. It's just what levers can we pull 00:43:36.002 --> 00:43:44.158 - cost of property though, that's been driven home. It's one of the property tax assessment board of appeals 00:43:44.158 --> 00:43:52.086 - now. And the assessed value, and it's not the assessor's fault, this is because it's the assessed value 00:43:52.086 --> 00:43:59.861 - of land is out of this world and people are coming in and paying over reasonable prices for property, 00:43:59.861 --> 00:44:05.502 - which just basically takes up everybody's value. So that's affecting both 00:44:05.762 --> 00:44:15.432 - business, property, and also personal, residential property. I don't know how you fixed that. As someone 00:44:15.432 --> 00:44:25.009 - who just bought a house last year, yes. Yeah, it's astounding. It really is. And some people are really 00:44:25.009 --> 00:44:33.758 - struggling. We see that with some of the appeals starting to keep up with the projected taxes. 00:44:33.922 --> 00:44:46.978 - focused on the assessed value. I don't know what the solution is. And winning the national championship 00:44:46.978 --> 00:45:00.286 - apparently didn't help. Because there are a lot of people coming in here and speculating because of that. 00:45:00.482 --> 00:45:10.020 - All the new apartment buildings, so many of them are brand new and they don't really start paying tax, 00:45:10.020 --> 00:45:19.280 - you know, for the first year because of the arrears. Right. Is that coming along and helping things 00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:25.854 - at all? Do you know? I mean, it's going to be a lot of assessed value. 00:45:28.738 --> 00:45:37.782 - I don't know the answer to that, but I think we have an apartment bubble right now where it's going 00:45:37.782 --> 00:45:47.187 - to burst over investment. You just drive around now. I rarely have seen over my 40 plus years associate 00:45:47.187 --> 00:45:49.086 - with the university. 00:45:49.890 --> 00:45:56.293 - property that's still for lease. Oh yeah. When the semester is about ready to start and there's a bunch 00:45:56.293 --> 00:46:02.511 - of properties that are for lease. I used to see signs that would say August of the next year. Right. 00:46:02.511 --> 00:46:08.853 - A 7,000 new bedrooms in the last three years. Yeah. Someone's gotta break them. And there's, you know, 00:46:08.853 --> 00:46:13.470 - what is it, north of 17th Street? That's 1,600 more being built right now. 00:46:14.178 --> 00:46:24.506 - and um west 17th street i'm sorry west arlington there's that yeah just by the stadium that that's owned 00:46:24.506 --> 00:46:34.933 - by the state west arlington's another one i think it's 600 bedrooms here you go guys yeah this um there's 00:46:34.933 --> 00:46:43.294 - another 800 across oh what's this this is 2024 part map of parcels by av so the blue 00:46:43.522 --> 00:46:51.841 - parcels have the highest AV. And we can update this for 2025. I would really like to look at that. Give 00:46:51.841 --> 00:47:00.000 - me a point of reference on this. Just point something. Where's the intersection of? Right. Here's the 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:08.159 - B line. This is the trades district. Okay, that's good. Is that good enough? And then this is campus, 00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:13.278 - of course, where there's like none. And we know Bloomington has 00:47:13.954 --> 00:47:23.072 - 52%. This is what Judy told me, 52% of our properties are tax exempt. So it's tough. So what side are 00:47:23.072 --> 00:47:32.012 - we looking at here? University is on the right. No, but I mean, I've never seen this map. This is a 00:47:32.012 --> 00:47:40.862 - city. Dee had it prepared, I think, by our GIS department. It was awesome. And so she fed them AV. 00:47:41.666 --> 00:47:47.784 - AV data, and they created this. So it's not a living document, but we need to make the 2025 one. Could 00:47:47.784 --> 00:47:54.021 - we send us a link? Yeah. Because you obviously can't see it from here very much, but I think it's great. 00:47:54.021 --> 00:48:00.080 - Can you dig down and see the streets a little bit more clearly? No, I'm just saying if you send it to 00:48:00.080 --> 00:48:06.020 - the streets. Yeah, so here's third. Good, because that would help. And then seven Lincoln. I'm just 00:48:06.020 --> 00:48:08.574 - trying to look for the square. It would be 00:48:08.866 --> 00:48:20.331 - non-taxable. So maybe this is the square. So this is the hotel. This is the Hyatt place. This maybe 00:48:20.331 --> 00:48:32.369 - is the graduate. That would make sense. Wait a minute, 2024. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, the square 00:48:32.369 --> 00:48:36.382 - is right there. The orange square. 00:48:36.482 --> 00:48:44.519 - And then this is the CVS building. Of course, this is now going to become the condos. So that'll jump. 00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:52.322 - Yeah. And color coding is what again? Lighter colors, lower AV. So the dark blues, blues and greens 00:48:52.322 --> 00:48:58.174 - have a higher AV. Yeah. So that was my question. Is that tripled down yet? 00:48:58.274 --> 00:49:05.677 - It would be interesting to see the difference between 2024 and 2025 data, I think, if you compare those 00:49:05.677 --> 00:49:13.008 - two maps. That would be fascinating to see. The property on 17th Street I know isn't on the books yet, 00:49:13.008 --> 00:49:20.197 - and that's got to be $70 million. So here's... So that should help with overall... This must be Dunn 00:49:20.197 --> 00:49:27.742 - Street, this must be Stadium, and so I'm looking for 17th. It is sort of disorienting. Okay, that's 11th. 00:49:28.194 --> 00:49:38.081 - But that one street is Walnut, I think. This is done. There's Lincoln. 16th, 17th. So this must not... 00:49:38.081 --> 00:49:47.871 - This is interesting. The red one there is... So the orange is the... That is making sense to me. That 00:49:47.871 --> 00:49:58.046 - flood complex, right? Yes, this is, but... Then what's all the A, B there? That should be all tax exempt. 00:49:58.434 --> 00:50:08.236 - Because that's where the dorms are. 17th and Fess. Yeah. That's where the... Interesting. So that... 00:50:08.236 --> 00:50:18.136 - Unless... That doesn't make sense. Unless you're off a block. Unless... This is what death... This is 00:50:18.136 --> 00:50:24.638 - definitely... It has to be the... It has to be... Student housing. 00:50:26.466 --> 00:50:35.993 - I think you're further south than you realize. It says 17th. No, no, no, that's not 17th. You're right. 00:50:35.993 --> 00:50:45.795 - Zoom back in. That's 12th. That was at 12th. Yeah. Is it? I don't know. It is 17th. Huh. Wow. Interesting. 00:50:45.795 --> 00:50:55.230 - Anyway, when you get the update, we'll have better links. I'd like to look at it too. Yeah, thank you. 00:50:55.362 --> 00:51:01.465 - It's very interesting. We'll put some markers. But that was my question. I just wondered. Because I'm 00:51:01.465 --> 00:51:07.567 - trying to think of a silver lining of having 10,000 more apartments than we need. Well, if the limits 00:51:07.567 --> 00:51:13.550 - on increases in assessed value, you'd think that that would help if you increased the overall base. 00:51:13.550 --> 00:51:19.713 - And there's a lot more coming on. In other communities, so this is all relevant for the impacts of SEA 00:51:19.713 --> 00:51:24.798 - 1. Liz, you're going to be about at time. 457. I'm just telling it. I'm watching it. 00:51:25.506 --> 00:51:33.816 - With SEA-1, in communities that have full-time income-earning populations, the reduction in property 00:51:33.816 --> 00:51:42.043 - tax, that burden is just being shifted to income tax. But because we have so fewer income taxpayers 00:51:42.043 --> 00:51:50.682 - within city limits, that's why we're really getting burned. But in other communities, it's not an alarm. 00:51:50.682 --> 00:51:53.726 - And I think Jennifer told me, right, 00:51:53.826 --> 00:52:04.971 - We're down in Bloomington 142 million in AV for the SEA-1 changes. And one of the things there is businesses 00:52:04.971 --> 00:52:15.401 - are having their personal property exempted up to, I think it's a million dollars. Is it a billion or 00:52:15.401 --> 00:52:22.558 - is it two? It may be two. Yeah, it's painful. Which I'm not sure why. 00:52:23.842 --> 00:52:31.925 - How did that happen? The legislature decided that... But don't worry, because we're going to do away 00:52:31.925 --> 00:52:40.249 - with property taxes completely. I laugh because I'd like to know what we're going to replace them with. 00:52:40.249 --> 00:52:48.492 - Exactly. What's Plan B? We'll just close the schools. Yeah, we don't need fire. We don't need fire and 00:52:48.492 --> 00:52:53.054 - police. Is that a formal recommendation? No. Okay, good. 00:52:53.186 --> 00:53:02.277 - from the President. Thank you, Mr. President. Speaking of comments, I will move the adjournment. Any 00:53:02.277 --> 00:53:11.458 - additional discussion, general discussion? I think we've had it, so let's adjourn this thing. Thanks, 00:53:11.458 --> 00:53:13.438 - everybody. Thank you.