I'd like to call this fourth and final night of departmental budget hearings of the Luton City Council To order and with the clerk, please call the roll Councilmember Flaherty here I'm sorry. I didn't hear you Here. Ah, there we go. It's very quiet Stasburg here
 Rollo here Piedmont Smith here Rough here Daly here Zulek here Rosenberger Sorry here, thank you. I believe we have a motion Colleagues to be made right now
 Yes, I would like to move to amend the agenda for this evening's departmental hearing for the 2026 budget to add an item Following the report by the Department of Public Works parking service division The added item is common council discussion and reflection on the proposed 2026 budget including consideration of reductions and consideration of increases this added item would be a discussion item only and no vote would occur and
 Do we need to have any discussion or debate or questions or public comment on this motion at all? I'll take that as a no silence is So can we just do a voice a roll call, okay roll in that motion Yes Yes
 Yes, Piedmont Smith. Yes rough. Yes Daley. Yes, Zulek. Yes. I'm sorry Yes Thank you tonight's Presentations will begin with a priority or priority area introduction on transportation We're from Bloomington Transit the Planning Transportation Department Engineering Department and the Department of Public Works Street and Traffic Division and Park Parking Services Division
 So we'll begin the statement from the administration Hi deputy mayor nap and Waiting for the slides to come up here. Just one second. I want to say first of all the Controller is online tonight. She is feeling a little contagious. And so we Suggested maybe she could Call in tonight. So she's there but not here in person. I
 So what's included in the allocations that are listed with dollar amounts in the beginning of this? Departments and divisions whose mission is largely centered in this work planning engineering public works street and parking We'll also have a guest presentation from Bloomington Transit who receives considerable funding From the city through ESD, but for this area of transportation there are some other costs that are listed there from departments that have already presented and
 If you haven't already looked at it, I would call your attention to the budget book pages 311 to 312, where Planning, Engineering, and Public Works have put together a list of 2025 transportation-related projects and 2026-related projects. This was something that last year, I think there was a desire to see what's on deck, and so we've tried to include some information about that this year, and they're sorted by what stage the project is in, which might include planning or study,
 design construction and maintenance and those tasks are done by different departments Planning and engineering will both had personnel requests to reduce consulting costs and increase capacity we're trying to be a little thriftier with our dollars and if we're going to spend Some money on expensive consultants. We'd like to have those be full-time people that we can get the most out of their time and
 And you can talk to them more about those questions. But if those positions are not filled, we'd probably need to adjust our list of projects to account for staffing. And you can see there the list of types of projects that are included here.
 And I think that you know and some of this work some of our challenges are it's hard to pick them apart because they Might have matching funding sources or we're combining projects in order to save efficiency So it's very difficult to say do if you don't do part a of this 12 part project. What is the new cost? It's not as simple as just subtracting a number because of those efficiencies that we gain from trying to do things together and so
 You know, we've got some work to figure out in our PBB implementation on that but look forward to hearing your questions and happy to answer some now if you have any Okay, do we have any questions from council members at this point Seeing none So so for instance an exact oops
 So we have a college walnut quarter study and we have a Maybe various degrees in which we could implement A project that could be quite expensive. That's something that will be scrutinized to determine to what extent we were
 in going to invest in that. So I think this is my understanding, and I'm sure the folks in planning and engineering would know more about this, but my understanding is that at the study phase, we're really looking at what is the problem we're trying to solve in college enrollment, the primary problem is safety, and there may be opportunities while you're solving the safety problem to do other things as well, but it's really, I think, when it comes to actual implementation of the project at a later stage,
 that's when we know what kind of matching funding sources do we have, what kinds of sewer projects might be planned for near that time. So if we're gonna tear up the road, let's do whatever sewer work we need to do at the same time. So I think those questions about alignment happen a little bit later. The study is just, here's all of the facts about what it could be and what it could include, and then as you get further along, we can look at the calendar and see what else is planned by other departments.
 For maybe a So just to follow this line of thought I'm trying to You know discern Where we would place priorities Obviously, there are some costs there are as you Mentioned there are federal state funding. So for instance, there is the side path on High Street I can't remember what it is 2080 or something in terms of its
 Funding we pass the bond etc. Is that something that is? going to be reevaluated as well, or is that something that you consider like as a firm commitment My understanding of where that project is if we're in negotiations to acquire the right away to build that project It is underway. We wouldn't go through the trouble of acquiring them and then say no, we're not going to do that That's my understanding of where that project is at Okay
 You're so the administration's committed to that project. In other words, I believe so. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you for that Okay, seeing none, thank you and We're ready to hear from Bloomington transit public comment. Oh public comment on the initial presentation So any public comment either from the room or anyone online? Oh
 Thank you now we are ready to move to hear from Bloomington Transit Yes Fairly long evenings I'm trying to move things along. Yeah, it's just a final council member comment Councilman P Bondsmith Yeah, I am
 agree with sort of the line of questioning the councilmember Rollo was undertaking and I'll address that more with the director of planning transportation and the director of engineering because I am interested in you know, we keep making plans and plans and then We make new plans when the old ones haven't been enacted yet and I then plans become stale and so I kind of do worry about Us continuing to make more plans when we haven't implemented the first ones but
 So I just wanted to say that that that's something I'm Concerned about as well and we'll talk more about it later. Thank you Yeah, and all I did that and when new plans are being made oftentimes that entails spending on Planning and design and ever and consulting and analysis additional spending on new plans development. Well plans are Yeah, anyway, thank you. Now we are ready. I think to hear from buildings in transit. I
 All right All right, good evening John Connell general manager of Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation of Krista Browning with me who is the Bloomington Transit controller So Bloomington Transit is a standalone municipal corporation with a five-member board three board members are appointed by the City Council and
 And two by the mayor the board of directors are responsible for the policy and financial oversight of the corporation The bptc board has reviewed and recommended this 2026 budget be presented to this council for approval Bloomington transit originally was a department of the city in a transition to an independent municipal corporation in 1982 however, the relationship between the city and
 BT has remained strong throughout the years BT has continued to partner and contract with the city for IT services and support some legal services and for liability and risk management services Most recently the strong partnership has been evidenced by the 2023 five-year in a local interlocal agreement dedicating ed lit funding to BT for an enhanced public transit
 So thanks to that partnership BT has been able to use the 2023 and 2024 ed led funds for local match for federal grants to complete over 15 million dollars worth of capital projects Project projects completed to date include the purchase of 16 zero emission battery electric buses and charging infrastructure micro transit vehicles and dispatching and scheduling operating platforms
 additionally The funds have also supported operational expenses for the implementation of Sunday serviced on fixed routes and BT link access Funds have allowed for the creation of two new positions at BT a grant and procurement manager and a marketing development manager Key projects
 Created as a result of the ED lit funding the blink microtransit program Sunday service the new staff positions and a discounted fare subsidy program will continue in 2026 BPTC will absorb the cost of these programs in order to earmark the 2026 ed lit funds as local match for the new administration operations and maintenance complex
 So the 2024 25 and 2026 city ed lit funds that have will be pulled together as local matching funds for our 2025 FTA 53 39 the discretionary grant application for the land design and construction of the new facility The grant request has been submitted Anticipated total project cost is 45 million
 To date BT has executed right a first refusal agreement for the purchase of the subject property while environmental work is being completed NEPA phase one work is complete NEPA phase two is underway and completion is expected within 30 to 45 days BT has issued a request for qualifications to select a team for a build operate transfer approach for the design and construction of the facility and
 breakdown of the 2026 budget class one personnel slightly over nine million dollars this year class two materials and supplies 1.5 million closer to 1.6 professional services is 3.4 million dollars in capital is 5.2 the total 2026 budget is 19 million three hundred eighty three thousand four hundred and two dollars
 budget notes on the expense side personnel three point ninety two percent increase general rate wages Or increase four percent. This includes a general wage increase for employees But it also includes additional hours of service as we strive to get back to pre-pandemic levels It includes a hundred seventy four thousand dollars what we call consent contingency services
 This is money we park in the budget in the event an opportunity presents itself in 2026 for for example for an additional partnership agreement Health insurance is scheduled to increase 18 and a half percent Liability insurance is up 161 percent not only the premiums increased but deductibles have as well materials and supplies we see
 Close to 12% reduction. This is primarily driven by the need for less diesel fuel and oil because of the 16 new battery electric buses Conversely the electric budget is increased by 215% So just to give you an idea battery electric bus cost per hour is 27 cents per mile Cost per mile for a diesel bus is 80 cents
 So there are significant operational savings with the battery electric buses On the revenue side we're projecting property tax revenue to remain at 1.7 million dollars the BPTC local income tax revenue is set at 650,000 passenger fares or budget to increase 27% to 2.5 million in 2026 and
 These revenues include general public cash fares employee pass programs Blink and mobile cash fares. They also include our partnership agreements Currently we have agreements with the rive Mueller Park Atlas Indiana University in Monroe County Advertising revenue is projected to decrease from 175 to 80,000
 That is being driven by the board's position to limit the number of fully wrapped buses for advertising purposes And the federal and state side revenue 2026 budget includes 3.9 million dollars in federal flex funding we have 53 10 and 5307 funds to be used for transit buses support vehicles vans and
 for capitalizing preventive maintenance activities Federal 5307 is an amount of 2.4 million will be used for operating assistance Our state public mass transportation funds or budget to remain the same as 2025 at 2.6 million and we will be using eight hundred and twenty four thousand eight hundred seventy dollars in BP BT reserves to balance this budget and
 As far as our 2026 goals, our number one goal is to begin the process for the design and construction of the new administration operations maintenance complex in order to expand service, right-size the BT fleet, and provide space for additional employees and vehicles. We need a new facility as a necessity. Part of that project, we plan to partner with Ivy Tech to create a hands-on battery electric vehicle technician program
 Dedicated space for that purpose Our number two goal is to prepare for the impacts of Senate Bill 1 $100,000 is programmed in this 2026 budget to update transform BT our strategic plan BT must plan for the potential reduction of property tax and lit funding and explore options for future local funding avenues and
 We must begin discussions of the Merrill County for the adoption of a lit rate for a special taxing unit for transit This may require rethink in the current organizational structure of the BPTC board Pivoting from a five-member board to a seven-member board with representation from Monroe County Third goal is to get the word out on the blink program. I
 We've programmed $100,000 for marketing purposes specifically for the blink program This is our microtransit program Currently, we know there's many residents within the city. They're not in walking distance from a fixed route bus stop The Microtransit program is designed to provide public transit services to those individuals So our goal is to get the word out and increase ridership
 So the passage of this 2026 budget will allow BPTC to position itself to continue to transform public transportation in our community and allow for improved service options for our residents Our employees are committed to serving the community and continuing to achieve the goals outlining our strategic plan Thank you for your time and consideration Thank you for your perfectly timed presentation, sir. Mr. Connell
 Do we have questions from council members at this time for mr. Connell? Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, thank you for your presentation always good to see miss Browning as well. I see her once a year at this occasion I wanted to know how much you currently have in reserves since you plan to use 525,000 in reserves Leave us with approximately 10 million in reserves. Oh, well, that's good
 When is your you have a separate union contract with your drivers that's separate from any other city employee unions, right? When does that expire the end of this year? We're in negotiations currently. Okay, and we have Well, there's a we've concluded negotiations and it's subject to a ratification vote by the union Okay expires the existing collective bargaining agreement expires December
 31st of this year So you feel confident that you're budgeting in the personnel? Category will cover increases for them Okay, great We've we our goal and the board's goal is to keep our workforce in the competitive range and we talked about competitive We're looking at other transit systems within the state a similar size similar operation and we're there Took us four years to get there, but we're there
 That's good to know is this another ask me local or which union is yes, it is asked me. Yeah You mentioned that The personnel category includes a hundred seventy four thousand for contingency services. I didn't quite understand what that's for so what what happens from time to time is we'll be in the middle of a Calendar budget year and say there's a new property and
 Student housing facility and they contact us and say hey, you know what? We don't want to run our our little mini buses anymore is anything we can do to work with you and then we talk about a partnership agreement and we have to have money in place in order to In that current year or we'd be coming back for an additional appropriation. So we found it easier just to park that amount of money within the budget and
 And then if opportunity presents itself or we're prepared to move forward immediately All right, thank you Councilmember daily will go do you then back this way? I'm really excited about the transition over to the electric buses and I think that's fantastic laying out the difference between the diesel and the electric costs and with the
 steep increase now in the electricity budget do does BT have solar panels at all to help offset the cost of Not at the Grimes facility we do at the Transfer Center, but not at the Grimes facility. Okay Maybe that's something we can put in the budget one year down. Well, we've talked about that for the design of what the new with the new facility Yeah, awesome. All right. Thank you customer Rala
 Thank you, thank you director a lot of exciting work going on I my question is about the electric buses as well So you have 16 buses in the fleet 18 total we just took delivery of the additional 16 18 total and What percentage of 41%? Okay so I'm curious about the maintenance expenses and you mentioned
 Operational costs and Councilmember Daley talked about You know, it's one-third of diesel fuel Does it make up for the capital investment and in also with the maintenance costs? Yes because we have three 60-foot diesel articulated buses that we've ordered and they came at under a million dollars so they're about $40,000 difference so
 cost of just a traditional diesel bus is this Parallel to the battery electric there used to be a significant difference in the cost but for whatever reason they're tracking pretty close together now Okay, I think that's so I got thanks Other questions from council members council members. Sorry. I
 Thank you so much director and Connell Could you tell us a little bit about our cost per passenger seems to be or cost per ride? I don't know what the best metric would be but it seems to be Staying pretty equal to what it was last year, which is down from correct. So ridership was up 4% last year over the previous year We fully anticipate ridership some significant increases in ridership this fall because one of the you know
 We've had in the past was the driver shortage having proper staffing levels to meet the needs the capacity needs Crush fingers, I think we're over the hump but as it stands now, we're adequately staffed and what we can do is we can put out additional buses When we have capacity issues and that's why we're purchasing the 60-foot articulated buses So on those routes where we do have capacity issues. So what I mean is the
 Pulls up the bus is full There's 15 20 people want to get on we can't get them on so we have to send another operator out in a bus Double operating cost but a 60-foot bus you can meet that Yeah, so so the the current the current proposed investment It would actually we expect to bring down the sort of cost absolutely writer. Is that the best thing about her? I
 Cost per hour. Cost per hour of service, okay. And then how is that overlapping with the extended BT link coming on board a little bit before campus was in full action? How are we expecting that to trend with students? And do we have any initial figures on student usage? We do not. And one of the things, like I said, we want to prioritize in 2026 is getting the word out about the Blink Microtransit Program.
 We've made some changes when it originally lot launched it was designed and if you were in a zone you still had to go to a Designated stop for the pickup. We've transitioned to a curb to curb model to make it much more convenient But the big problem we see is when we talk to people about the blink microtransit program Yeah, I've heard of it, but they don't know how it works So that's going to be our focus to get the word out because there's a lot of individuals who need to
 Access to services for for transit and they simply don't know this exists and would you say that the microtransit is having a negative or positive effect on the You know if we're looking at this sort of outcome of cost per hour Currently it has no Fiscal implication because it's designed to provide trips when the existing resources are already in place Yeah, so we have our ADA complementary service
 individuals with disabilities so those vehicles they their times where they are Positioned idle because the demand is up and down So the idea behind the blink program is to maximize the use of those resources while they're in place so We can book those trips with the operating expenses that we're already incurring Welcome Any other question Oh councilmember Sasberg
 Thank you. Um, so this year one of the new things has been that you've had that the first route that goes out to Ivy Tech and into the county and I just wanted to know how that's going in terms of ridership in terms of like the collaboration with the county units all of those pieces the collaboration has been great ridership is starting to Start to see some improvement. We made some route changes for the start of the fall semester We've been working closely with Ivy Tech
 Example the the route now serves Ivy Tech twice, you know as it goes outbound and inbound And it's more of the schedule changes are more aligned with their class schedules so we think that's going to be an improvement and we've also worked with them for Pushed out some discount codes so students can ride for free through September try to get them
 Take advantage of it and maybe they'll continue to to use it Great, that's that's really great to hear And then similarly we just talked about the b-link a little bit. What are ridership numbers like for that right now? It's pretty low. It's very low I can get you the exact numbers, but that's why we want to Prioritize getting the word out on the availability of the service. Okay, and What about the downtown? shuttle
 Well, we had a lot of positive feedback regarding that project and We average it was slightly over 50 rides So, you know, it's one of those things that we're going to evaluate If there's things that we can do to make it more attractive, you know, we'll work closely with the city. I have some ideas But we'll we'll have to see Where we come out in the in the spring
 Okay, great. Thank you Any other questions from council members? Seeing none we can move to the public for Public questions from the public either in the room or online. Do we have anybody online? No Seeing no takers. We'll come back to the council for final comments. I
 Thank you. I just want to comment positively on several bus stop improvements that I've seen being made over on the east side and some
 incorporation of the bus stop on a particular corner related to a greenway improvement and I just Wanted you to know that I'm really noticing those things and I think that they're that they make a really big difference especially in terms of visibility When I first moved to Bloomington, I was thoroughly confused about how to even take the bus and where the bus stops were and
 And that has just like improved so I was thinking about that this morning on my dog walk actually how much that has improved over time just in terms of my like usual route and being able to identify exactly where those stops are and that that is just a
 Really good progress. I think so. I just wanted to throw that out there I know there are other of those projects going on in other places the improvements by Kinzer and the bypass and that Kroger there which are still kind of in progress, but Those are looking really good and I'm really happy to see those kinds of service expansions both for safety of users but also for visibility of the service so that people Don't have to wonder how to take the bus or where to get
 The bus that it's a little bit more obvious. So we installed 26 new passenger shelters and That included at some of the sites accessibility improvements as well Any other comments from council councilman Ralla I also want to react positively. I appreciate expanding services on Sundays
 I also support the transition to electric buses. I think that's gonna pay dividends in the future with likely rising fuel costs and I And I think it's a logical to expand geographic service So that's great. It's proceeding well and Looking forward to maybe furthering that And the board expansion coincident with that. So Thanks for doing a great job
 Side note with the the new battery electric bus is the second generation We are getting over 12 hours of range out of them. So Tremendous improvement from the first generation So that's you know Exceeded our expectations battery technology is improved exactly wonderful. Thank you Any other comments from council?
 Seeing none. Thank you very much for answering questions and for presenting Now we're ready to move on to planning and transportation Good evening
 David Riddle director of the Department of Planning and Transportation here to share with you our proposed 2026 departmental budget Word about the structure of the department we have two divisions the development services division has nine employees one of which is part-time is the larger of the two divisions and the planning services division has five full-time employees and we are proposing with our 2026 budget two new full-time employees
 for planning services, which we'll talk about as we proceed here tonight and then we also have Call support staff. So that would be to administrative staff and myself as director So our 2026 budget shown before you here with the previous three years included shows a significant increase for personnel services thanks in large part to the
 Very generous salary lift that the at the department as well as other departments experienced During the course of the year and also the addition of two proposed full-time employee Positions for our planning services division There's a modest increase in our supplies, but I actually think before the final bill we're going to be able to trim that back by a few thousand dollars as I learned recently that we have a couple trans CAD licenses and
 For NPO staff that we don't need next year or henceforth So that should be trimmed back significantly and then for our other services line We have a 8% decrease compared to what we asked for last year and that's largely due to the fact that last year we With some ambition anticipated the potential to do two full corridor studies. We were only able to do one
 Required a consultant and so we're anticipating doing one next year. So the request the ask reflects that First two development services So this division of the department has really two stock and trade documents. The first on the left is the zoning map Which I think you're all familiar with the one on the right is the UDO the unified development ordinance Both are living documents and that they change regularly
 The plan of the zoning map changes whenever there is a rezoning either initiated by the city or initiated by a property owner And then on the you on the right the UDO as you know Changes with some frequency there in the pipeline right now a number of proposed UDO amendments having to do with single-room occupancy use urban agriculture
 Affordability incentives a variety of other things and of course staff brings every year Really an omnibus amendment could be several dozen different changes having to do with everything from Scrivener's errors to more substantial changes So it truly is a living document and I think in its healthiest form That's that's what it's meant to be Looking at numbers this this graph kind of gives you an indication of the traffic that comes through the office. These are
 2024 and 2025 to date numbers for a variety of permits and cases that that the department handles and These are just these are raw numbers These are outputs and inputs really if you input an application you get at the end of the process and output which is a permit So these are not outcomes
 Challenge as we move towards an outcomes based budget is to is to figure out how to make How to form genuine and worthwhile outcomes that look at quality of service here, you know The the thing that's done is is the questions that surround these these points is what is the speed? What is the efficiency?
 And then what is the accuracy and those are a little bit difficult to gauge for a variety of reasons But those things really rest on the quality of the UDO. So when we're Reviewing a permit we review it against the UDO, which is a tremendously complex document
 And so the question of accuracy really is one of how much time the reviewer gets And how valuable that time is in terms of its efficient use? And how quickly we get back get it back to the the permit holder So so those are things that as again we move to a outcomes based budget that we're going to have to try to figure out how to assign numbers To sort of the quality of the act that that staff is doing so for the year to date
 The numbers are pretty similar to what they were last year with the exception of zoning violations We're we're a little bit ahead of schedule if if that's the proper phrase to be used which is probably not the case But looking more at raw numbers BZA petitions last year. We heard 30 Kind of interesting and I didn't realize this until we aggregated the numbers but 28 of those 30 were approved by the BZA to denied
 2025 year to date the numbers are similar 27 heard 22 approved 3 denied and 2 withdrawn and then of PC planned Commission petitions heard and plat committee petitions heard all were approved again, this is sort of an interesting qualitative question in that we don't Determine the success of our job based on whether or not a BZA Petition is approved or denied or even
 If the BZA votes in concert with staffs recommendation when we've done our job Well, we have provided the decision makers with a complete picture of what's being requested and then also a rational and coherent recommendation that they can work off of so as we again fashion Outcome based budgeting and that's good. That's going to be a challenge for us something that didn't get
 Put on the picture because they didn't fit on the screen. We've made our floodplain management program quite a bit more robust this year as Senior environmental planner Rachel Johnson has taken over the position. She's done an extremely good job Fleshing out what exactly that should be and it's really you know more important than ever as we see things like the hundred-year floodplain looking more and more like a 50-year floodplain it's very important that we honor
 Natural features and and the floodway and the floodplain as we do our as we conduct development and allow development In concert with that this year she has passed seven flood development permits and that corresponds to about 50 flood development inquiries and
 And then speaking of inquiries generally We surmise that we get about 21 walk-in email or phone in questions from developers builders neighbors about zoning things in general and that that equates to about 5400 per year that we also address Then one thing that's not at all quantitative that we didn't put on here is just that the sheer
 The the fact or the requirement of utio maintenance, which is a heavy lift again. It's a tremendously complex document and It's necessary to have an ongoing feedback loop so that we're taking an account things that work Well with it things that don't work well with it and then how to account for amending the things that don't work well Every year we have a list a laundry list that we keep and every year there are items left on that list that just
 There's too many to accomplish. So that's that's quite a heavy lift
 Additional projects within the development services sphere include the housing attainability study that we've talked about that will culminate in at year's end a Set of housing policy recommendations that would be brought to the council for review Those will be primarily udl amendments, although they could be other kinds of housing policy changes And right now we're meeting with neighborhoods. We're meeting with you were meeting with MCC SC other employees and
 We're going to council constituent meetings And we're we're trying to get as much of a broad-based Set of feedback as we can about housing attainability and the relative lack of it in the city It's I think it's worth mentioning again that that the question of housing attainability the difficulty that people have finding housing here is
 Rests on a lot of different factors. It rests on a whole host of them The UDO happens to be one of them just one of them But it's also the only thing that is literally controlled by people in this room literally in this room right now It's essentially the council and the mayor with input from the planned commission and staff that the UDO does what it does and says what it says so
 Where it provides obstacles we can address that or it doesn't provide proper incentives or proper opportunities We can address that too. So that's why we are focusing our attention with regards to housing attainability on the UTO We are also undergoing Constantly development review process improvements So that's internal refinements which which we talk about Constantly and and put in place and some of them work and some of them don't work
 To that end we've we're kind of taking a step further and we're going to be commissioning an external audit We are in receipt of the posal and are having conversations with the vendor right now about what exactly that's going to look like We're doing that with CBU because our development review processes are pretty well intertwined We will also involve hand and engineering because they play a role in those processes as well. I
 Just a couple visual looks at some of the things that Development Services does Upper right we're the people that go and tell the guy that you can't keep your dilapidated car in your front yard We are the people that collect sign clutter when it's Present in a way that's not allowed by ordinance Floodplain management as seen on the lower left
 And for the first time my experience we do emergency Undetected karst hole evaluations, which you see on the
 upper center that's at Cascades Golf Course where an unknown karst feature presented a hole someone actually fell down that and our senior engineer our senior and sorry environmental planner is empowered by the ordinance to make emergency Declarations about how that can be filled without going through the usual set of steps that require the remediation of karst And it's just a fascinating picture to me for some reason
 Planning services that's actually a photo of our long-range planner Karina Pazos who very unfortunately left for a job with the city of Chicago last week But anyway, that's her receiving an award under on behalf of the department in Virginia at a conference pertaining to the department's execution of safety week, which was a campaign
 an outcrop of our safe streets for all program that we just finished last week at coincides with moving week for IU and For the award was for last year's presentation of safety week Which was kind of a neat thing a neat feather in the cap for for Karina and for the department
 So planning services active projects right now for 2025 involved the college walnut corridor study Which we hope will be finished late this year the Kinzer Madison Rogers corridor study comprehensive very long corridor study that is started earlier this year and we hope will finish in the summer of 2026 and
 The Indiana Avenue and potentially Dunn Street safety improvement project which started earlier this year and may finish early in the spring We're in very very very very active conversation with interested stakeholders including Indiana University IU Transit Bloomington Transit and emergency services to make sure that we get the safety improvements that we need to see on Indiana Avenue and that they get a roadway that functions in
 The way that they hope it does It's hard to satisfy all those competing interests, but we're doing our best to do that And then the taste 10th Street safety improvement project It's it's a study of 10th Street where it stretches essentially from downtown to the campus edge on the west side And that should be finished late this year as well additional projects we resuscitated the safe routes to school program, which was very active in Bloomington and
 Up until about 2012, and then it just stopped for reasons we're not able to piece together by looking at the documentation. But anyway, we met with MCCSC, put that back together, and started at University Elementary. The goal here is to find ways for more students to be able to bike and to walk to school. So that includes things like public education, outreach, looking for optimal routes, actual hard
 scape finishes, hocks and crosswalks and things of that nature. We will finish with university and MCCSE already has the next school in line for us to work on. That will be Tri-North Middle School. We finished the 2050 MPO transportation plan
 That is the plan that keeps us eligible eligible for federal funding as a transportation urbanized area It's completed every five years. So the next one will be the MPO 2055 plan and we'll begin on that in a couple years
 Finished a resident. Are we finishing a resident-led traffic calming project that being on Washington Street south of the police station where neighbors got together and Decided that they didn't like the fast cars going down their residential street all the time they worked with us to put together a Program a traffic calming program that will involve some street cushions as well as some daylighting where
 Remove cars parked at intersections so it increases visibility for pedestrians and for motorists We also had the local motion micro grant projects, which are low dollar but high-impact projects that go to local Organizations and they they sort of work to foster a culture of biking and walking mostly among children and then finally we unveiled the crash dashboard in March of 2025 here's a picture of that dashboard and
 Which is publicly accessible it shows all crashes within County the city and the urbanized area and it provides a tremendous amount of detail about each of those crashes so that Trends and other factors and problems can be observed and analyzed And it's been I think a very successful a partnership with the ITS is GIS department whose work was very appreciated there and
 Still in the planning services division on the lower part of your screen there. You see the two red circles Those are around our two proposed new FTEs. There would be a new long-range planner So we already have one so this would create a second long-range planner position and a new alternative transportation coordinator position and I'll talk a little bit about how those positions would increase our capacity in a very positive way and
 So 2026 projects again for planning services, we would finish the Kinzer Avenue The Kinzer Madison Rogers rather and then the Indiana Avenue corridor projects. We would start two new corridor studies Without the new FTEs. We would only be able to start one We would start two new safe routes to school projects without the FTEs. We would only be able to start one and
 We would implement low-cost quick build safety demonstration projects. So those are things like hard center lines temporary bike lanes speed cushions signal to stop sign conversions many roundabouts Often temporary materials temporary builds just to examine whether or not what we want to see happen will in fact happen and then they can either be retrofitted with permanent materials or the temporary materials can be kept for as long as they'll last and
 This is a map that kind of shows the the corridor priorities. This is from the SS for a plan So in the bold dark red lines, you have the priority corridors identified they are kind of cold out of this by a pretty robust scoring process that examines crash data that examines
 roadway configuration and what we know about the propensity of certain configurations to to create conflict for cars for Bicycles for pedestrians and so on that scoring matrix. We've determined the highest high medium and medium low priority quarters So there's a rhyme and a reason to how it is that we determine the next thing that we work on It's literally going down the line in terms of priority ranked with regards to safety
 Few more projects. We'll move forward with a core public engagement plan. This will be a sort of Meat and potatoes engagement plan that can be used for transportation planning that can be used for other types of comprehensive planning So rather than starting from scratch for every new campaign for every new study with determining how we're going to engage the public this will give us a template around which we can then tailor to the specific needs of the program at hand and
 And then we'll initiate new comprehensive plan studies for focus areas and or urban village centers, which is a departure of
 Our long-range planning department and staff have really focused on transportation planning for years and haven't done anything with regards to traditional comprehensive planning really since the 2018 adoption of the comprehensive plan so more traditional comprehensive planning is not necessarily going to be transportation focused, but it's going to look at a a neighborhood a district a part of a city sometimes a township and look at land uses look at engage with with
 the people who are stakeholders their Vision do visioning processes where you want to you want to define how you want this place to be in the future As an example here is a map a portion of a map the land use map from the comprehensive plan from 2018
 And it identifies as you can see the the areas bound by green those are called focus areas Where there is special attention to be given to certain? Circumstances for example, the long one on the north is the northern gateway The long one on the south is called a southern gateway, but there's not much information other than that So if we were to do more comprehensive planning work here, we would actually dig into what that area needs We would work with ESD for example to see if there's some sort of seeding or incentive
 Gentivizing to get certain types of businesses or activities there Similarly, you can see the little black asterisks placed seemingly randomly at different intersections Those are what's called urban village centers All that the comprehensive plan gives us is the black asterisk There's no narrative or text or anything that says what do we do with these? Those are in fact areas that could be commercial nodes think Hillside and Henderson
 We haven't done any deeper diving exploring from a comprehensive planning standpoint to find out how we could make that actually happen So again with these FTEs, we could do this type of comprehensive planning And and and that's again something that hasn't been done very much here since the adoption of the comprehensive plan seven years ago Mr. Mitchell, let me sorry to interrupt but just wondering how much longer your introduction your comments will probably take I think I'm done. Oh
 That's why I found that pause at the end of your last your last line Well, thank you very much for that informative and and detailed Presentation appreciate that very much. So we'll start with questions from council members That's Marala Thanks for your presentation really some excellent aspects to it
 This is a question that I think I might explore a bit more in writing but It has to do with level of service of our roadways and in our transportation plan The the metric is between A&F and We have minimum service of D and new service of C and
 Are our roads falling within those parameters? Are there ones that are E or F that you know of that need attention? I'm harkening back to last year when I deflected a lot of these questions to Andrew Seabor because I think I have to do that in this case I think that's probably a question for for Andrew to address those the level of service metrics are the
 Bailey weak Bailey wick the wheelhouse of the engineering department our planning Focus is very heavily on safety rather than than LoS. Yep. Got it. Okay then I'll withhold that I See I have a minute 40 so When you describe BZA petitions which have been holding kind of steady and
 30 or so a year it looks like yeah and you say you don't have a You're sort of agnostic in terms of where where it falls but there is information there in terms of if there's consistency about That might be implemented in code in other words if people have a common sort of You know say urban agriculture or something they want to do something that is maybe require some sort of
 dispensation from the BZA This could be an indicator is our is your team kind of tracking that as well for code revision so forth Yes, we do look at BZA cases specifically what's being asked for and if there is a pattern of repeat asks for the same thing and that very well could be an indication that the ordinance needs to be tweaked
 More than likely to allow for that thing and with the urban agriculture Yeah that did actually arise as a proposed amendment out of its initial hearing at the Board of Zoning Appeals where a number of the BZA members and a great great number of folks actually indicated that that that would be a Express the opinion that that would be a good candidate for So I just have a few seconds left the Rolado development and
 There's landscaping that was done there. Did you tag team with utilities on that or was that something that was? Implemented by utilities. I'm talking about the rain gardens I'm out of time. Well, that's a good question our inspectors will review lands conformant conformity of what's actually put in the ground with the approved landscape plan the rain gardens is the domain of CBU, okay, so
 And it's yeah, it's a little bit unusual. I'm out of time. So, uh, thank you Councilor Piedmont Smith Yes, thank you for your presentation Great use of your time. I think you are right on the button there I'm intrigued by the increase in zoning violations from 2024
 Do you see a pattern of types of violations or is do you have more staff to cite people? Or do you do you have any more insight into that increase? We have two full-time enforcement staff and last year one of them was on maternity leave That's the only thing that that that I can think of otherwise it could be just an anomaly I don't think we've had a
 Sort of a concentration of a certain type of violation This year versus last year so it's it's sort of been the availability of staff time to To pay attention or to go out there and and look for things Otherwise, it's as far as I can tell it's anomalous Okay
 Another question and this is hearkening back to your memo in our budget book. You talked about Studying a linkage fee. Could you tell us a little bit more about that, please? Yeah so with the affordability incentives the ordinance spells out a variety of requirements
 for developers who are building residential housing if you want to build it taller or wider than the ordinance would ordinarily allow then you are obligated to provide Some measure of affordable housing or pay a fee in lieu of that housing for non-residential projects and this this Clause and the ordinance has only been invoked
 Once since it's been in there for non-residential projects. The ordinance assumes that there will be induced Attainable housing by virtue of the jobs that are created and so the developer of that non-residential project Is obligated to essentially provide housing or pay the fee based on the
 Determination of that that linkage study Now no one there is no inclusionary zoning in Indiana. So no one here does that we did find a vendor in California that does conduct that study and it's actually it's sort of an advanced formula that looks at the the the metrics of the
 Non-residential entity if it's a business the number of jobs how will those jobs pay? The likelihood of those employees of living in a certain area approximate to the to the place And it punches out a number then it's a fee that that person would pay So the ordinance has called for that for a number of years now and
 We've we've never actually gotten a Consultant to put that together for us It's been done once with the development of the posh hotel and Jackie Scanlon our assistant director kind of DIY in concert with that developer a formula that worked for everybody We don't necessarily want to have to do that again. So we do have a vendor We're talking to we're expecting an actual quote from that person very soon and we'll go forward. It's a very long answer I'm sorry, we'll go forward
 With with getting that study done. Okay. Thank you other questions because member sorry Thank you so much director Hiddle I'm gonna focus mostly on permitting. I know though. We're talking about transportation. It's the opportunity to ask you the question that I have is when we think about permitting and
 What do we see as the main purpose of the system of permitting because at the beginning you were talking about? Timeliness you were talking about the difficulty in the difficulty in putting this into an outcome based Budget and so it's just generally curious. So how we sort of view the purpose of permitting Well when we're reviewing a permit, we're checking it against the UDO just as a building inspector would check it against building code and we do it in concert because
 The building inspectors is usually working on the same permits that we are so we check it against the UDO To make sure that it's meeting all of those requirements, which is you know at an elementary level It's things like building height and setback not being in the floodway Not triggering other environmental concerns But of course our UDO as as layers and layers and layers of these requirements. So it's it's a long check so
 Think accuracy is important. We do want to make sure that what the udio requires and calls for Is represented in the development that we are we are approving? Timeliness is something that we hear a lot about because we could make our our Processes a good deal more efficient. So it's really both of those things and there's a balance there because if you focus solely on speed and you would tend to compromise
 Quality or accuracy if you focus solely on accuracy, then you tend to compromise the speed or the efficiency of it Which puts our development community in a bad hole, right? So it's really both things and then do we do we currently? Analyze how the types and locations of permits that are particularly those being issued line up with priorities in the comprehensive plan Say that again. Do we currently analyze how the types and locations of permits being issued line up with the priorities in our comprehensive plan?
 how the types and locations of permits being issued line up with priorities. Yeah, so when we think about, again, with that question of outcomes, do we measure it against our comprehensive plan, or are we measuring it against just compliance with the UDF?
 I'm trying to think of how to measure it against the comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan I mean, it's it's it's giving guidance on land use it's giving guidance on You know
 Whole transportation and environmental concerns and things like that. Well also some set of priorities, right? And so so I'm just interested if we view all permits equally or if we say hey There's certain things that we've prioritized as a city and we want to make you know If people want to do the things that we want to see done we want to make that easier, right? But my amount of time We do have an expedited path for simpler permits so if it's strictly an internal
 Reconfiguration or something like that. There's not site work being done. Then that involves much less of our review. So we expedite those if there are Substantial environmental issues then we'll pass that permit to our environmental reviewer I'm not sure I'm getting at your question. So maybe we could address that in the the written questions part Okay. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you Thank you for that reply
 Generally what I've been trying to do is with the timer on council Questions is the council members asking the question when the time runs out I want to give the time for the response but would not I would not Want the council member then to ask another question after time has run out and this is fine I think the way we've gone so far but just just so everybody understands that's kind of way I'm running it and
 Okay council member Stossberg Thank you. I just had a couple of questions about your proposed FTE is I I Sense that it's maybe been a little challenging sometimes to find planning staff and engineering staff in Bloomington, Indiana And so adding FTE is I just kind of have to wonder like is that are those job descriptions set up for success in terms of attracting a
 Applicants, it's a good time to ask that question because right now we have our other long-range planner position that Karina left is open and we are receiving applications and we're receiving a good number of Legitimate candidates more than I would have expected or more than I would have expected maybe a year ago so I think that
 Based on what we're seeing right now. I think that we will be able to get candidates for those great. That's great and can you talk a little bit about the alternative transportation coordinator and What kind of specific stuff that you would be wanting them to do and also? what kind of collaborative work they might do with with our TDM manager because it feels like the Those are almost like two sides of the same coin at least in title and
 So if you could talk about that for a minute, that'd be great Yeah, the alternative transportation coordinator will take over parts of the current bikeped roll we're renaming the bikeped roll the safe streets manager Do a lot of the same stuff, but we'll give up some of the specific bikeped
 items to the alternative transportation coordinator Additional components of that role will include public education outreach coordination Secondary involvement in the safe routes to school project And that's kind of the core of it as far as how it will relate to the TDM manager that's a good question and I don't know that we've had that conversation, but I think that's a conversation that we should have and
 Yeah, I think that that would be important. So if part of that alternative transportation coordinator role is being recovered from The bike ped coordinator which would then be called the safe streets program manager Can you talk about that? That's not just a proposed title change. It's also a job description change. So can you? speak to what that Safe streets program manager responsibility would then become yeah implementation of the safe streets for all plan so the bike ped
 coordinator job Existed prior to the adoption of the safe safe streets plan one of the best practices in that plan is to assign a staff person to be in charge of managing and carrying out its actual Goals and objectives and so he that role would be moving more in that line So it's very much tied to the actual safe streets for all plan action plan. Okay, great. Thank you I have some other things I'll follow up with on the written comments
 Okay other first round I guess questions from council members at this point Okay, that's my Rosenberg Hi, thanks director hi Sorry, I was gonna write my questions and then my document left me and now I'm back but is there a reason that position the new one is being called alternative transportation because that's like an outdated phrase and now it is a
 Active transportation just asking Like alternative is kind of you know been deemed as like negative kind of you know, I'm not priority kind of thing and I mean just like in Is it is that set in stone or can we kind of like update it to? No, it's not set in stone. That's a good question. I had not thought of that Yeah, so I can this it's a tiny thing. Okay, yeah and
 Just a little I mean councilmember sorry brought up permit permitting, but what I've always heard is For developers, it's so difficult because we have so many things that are conditional. So when we're talking about a duplex I mean the duplex over on East Wiley took was delayed six to nine months and like that is the major delay in permitting not necessarily just Trying to build a permitted
 Structure, right? And so are there plans with this UDO outreach to talk about making things Permitted instead of conditional like if we really want to help with the permitting process Yeah, I think the question of by right housing for
 The whole slate of missing middle housing is is very much part of that conversation Yeah, and and to make something that could be by right conditional Applies a tremendous amount of friction to it. We know that here we know that it's sort of a Dynamic in zoning everywhere. So that's part of the conversation for sure. Okay, that's awesome And I think we talked about that I guess when we were talking about a form-based code that making things more permitted with less
 Rules so people know what they can build I guess easier and faster is just it's a it's a step in the direction of form-based Right true. Yes, right. Yes. Okay, and then just on the some of the planning Like what I like glean from this presentation is there's like a ton of planning going on in planning and I do want to just kind of ask a little bit about the doing Like the Indiana done project actually was started in 2023 and it wasn't funded at all last year is
 Right. And so Or maybe 2024. It wasn't funded this year. Okay, and so like but you're saying next year we're gonna get that done So it's in the budget. Is that what I saw? We're supposed to finish the plan. Okay Still not doing it in 2026 Yeah, actually I'm so after the planning so the continuum goes planning design construction maintenance we do the planning and then we move it to the design phase and
 I'm I'm not sure what is in the in the pipe waiting for it as far as funds for design It's a good question Any other questions at this point I have I have one the new FTE positions My understanding was that you They'll be engaged in some
 some planning allow more planning Project planning and analysis And long-range planning to be done then otherwise would have if that's a correct understanding of What the new FT is would allow I'm wondering if if those activities that will now be able to pursue those planning activities would they have been
 Outsourced without these FTEs or would they just be things that wouldn't have wouldn't get done both So I think some of it wouldn't happen at all And then some of it would would be outsourced do you have any? ballpark Percentage which would have been you know, what present would been outsourced first what present would be I I don't I it was in the the action plan that
 Sort of the mathematical case was made that these two new FTEs would supplant a Certain degree of what would be required for external consultants I can I can you know, I think we're following this up with us with a written Written back and forth questions and answers so I can get that to you at that stage Okay, thank you. Thank you we're ready moods of public for public comments
 Anybody online yes, we do have one online. All right. Well, we rarely start with the person online. Let's go ahead and try that Yeah, Kevin Keough I heard that You're going to have a you're planning an external audit which caught my caught my ear and so
 I would think that would be done by an independent group. I think you're looking for a vendor. So this would be an independent group of professionals who would look at your processes, my understanding. I was wondering if it's a requirement, and if it is a requirement, like how often do you need to do it, or is this ad hoc? And also assume there would be criteria, standards, best practice, something that you'll be measured against, and that there will be a report.
 Hopefully, there would be a report. And also, with that report, there would be some type of an opinion or a conclusion. And also, if there's any judgments, like if you fail to meet some criteria, they would recommend something, and there may even be action plans associated with it. But I also was wondering, I wonder who receives the report, and how open the report would be, and it would be open to the public.
 And again, the ad hoc thing I think is important because I think this may be something very valuable that would add a lot of value that you would want to do annually. And you would report to the Common Council and something we'd openly hear at a meeting like this. So that would be my quote comments. So thank you very much. Thank you for your comments. Other public comment from inside the chambers?
 Good evening councilmember ruff. Oh, this is Christopher from the greater Bloomington chamber of commerce and I should have gone first because that was a really good question from the online attendee, I just want to say give Special props and kudos to mr. Hittle and his his outreach efforts The chamber has been a critic of the plan department and some of the permitting the reuse and some of the some of the culture there in the department and he's been
 Really willing to sort of go out and do some some key outreach His phone line is always open for me to call and I just want to say that we are Appreciating that effort is being made and they are on top of these things So I want to come back a year from now If I still have my job and and we'll see those Improvements on that and especially as it comes to outcome based budgeting that we've heard from today So I just want to appreciate his work there in the apartment and thank you for your time Thank you
 Any other public comment It anyone else online No, thank you. So go back to council for final comments That's Murillo Thank you for your presentation I So harkening back to what our deputy mayor began with is
 I'm in very interested in the feasibility of projects that are high-cost going forward In reevaluating those facing a period of austerity. I mean clearly we're going to be looking for revenue sources in the future Uncertain what those will be There are other there are possibilities some of the possibilities a lot of the possibilities are might be regressive and
 So I'm very Cautious about that So I want to balance that with the feasibility of large projects that you know if we had Unlimited funds we could implement but clearly we're not going to be doing that My other concern is related to costs and that is the idea of concurrency and I'll bring this up with engineering and that is
 level of service of not just streets but Everything in the city which I think is good. I think we have a high level service in many respects so But it seems to me that we're continually trying to play catch-up and I wonder if there are ways that we can internalize costs for new development that would obviate the need to raise fees raise taxes or suffer less services and
 So this idea of nexus studies I mentioned at the beginning first the first day of the budget which they implement in California to determine if you know, all the costs are internalized and as particularly large developments or Whether those are you know, we're going to need expanded public works or expanded water treatment or expanded roads in the future and
 Want to say I really credit you with focusing on urban village centers. I think that those are Something that is has stands to be an incredible public good To focus on those areas and try to redevelop those especially the southern Gateway corridor and I mentioned earlier that the Rolado development because I visited it and
 Looked at those the landscaping there. It's extraordinary. It really is an example of best practices It's really a model and so congratulations to your team and to the utilities Department for implementing that You know diverse rain garden with permeable paper pavers and and it it really is a beautiful a pollinator garden actually Thank you for your for
 Your work Other final comments from council councilmember, sorry
 First thank you director Hiddle first for being such a wonderful person to work with and bringing such excellent service to to our city I know I'm gonna be preaching to the choir here, but I think that what I am saying probably bears repeating again and again that the lived experiences of our of those who try to do business in Bloomington, I think has shown and made somewhat clear that our primary approach to things like
 permitting has tended to be more leaning towards compliance. And I think that's important, you know, compliance with the UDO, making sure that what gets built in Bloomington meets the standards we've written into law. It's absolutely necessary, but I think that we need to recognize that
 Permitting is much more than a compliance function. It's a place where all of our community goals from housing the transportation to sustainability become realities So when I look at permitting, I don't you see paperwork I see this gateway where a comprehensive plan particularly in any other plan that we've written Comes alive or it stalls and if the plan calls for more info housing walkable corridors sustainable design Then our permitting system should make those kinds of projects easier faster and more predictable I also get the reluctance to set clear targets around permitting timelines out of a few
 The sort of focusing on speed could compromise accuracy, but I think that we need to be the type of place that does both That we say very clearly that this is what you can expect when you work with Bloomington And even if even if that timeline isn't this like global, you know worldwide world-beating benchmark We still need to be able to tell people clearly This is what you're going to expect when you come to us And I think that the feedback that I've got from constituents across the city is people wanting to do business here They say it's just so
 Complex and they never know what to expect and so I would push for a setting really ambitious targets And and and then and then holding ourselves accountable to that and so why is this relevant to our budget?
 To me, I don't really believe in panaceas, but the closest thing that I think we have to a big priority that we can deal with that would affect all of the other things that we've talked about over these four days is making it easier to do business in Bloomington. Whether that's that you're trying to build a house, you're trying to start a company, whatever it is, we've made it so slow, so difficult, so hard, and I've heard this across the board. Let's set really, really strong targets.
 I think it's one of the most impactful investments we can do and make as a city and I think that right now It's a little bit of a gap in in this year's budget last year We had a lot budgeted for that EPL transition that sort of happened a bit later in the so maybe we might have had stronger targets At this year a better reflection on sort of how that investment Took place, but I'm really just interested in us putting whatever resource is necessary to sort of fix this sort of underlying
 I don't know structural problem that we have in the city. So I know I'm preaching to the choir But just worth saying as many times as I can. Thank you Thank you other comments comes from Piedmont Smith Yeah along those lines I wanted to follow up on Kevin Kiyo's questions. I think he was talking about An external audit that you mentioned and I think that is about permitting. So if you could talk a little bit more about
 Whether it's a requirement. What are the standards to be measured against? Will the report be public? Will it be done periodically? I think those are some of his questions. Sure. It's not a requirement We we've asked for it because we acknowledge that there's much room for improvement in our processes we've asked them to spare no feelings or to
 Hard when they when they do their work a big part of what they're going to do is gather focus groups of our frequent filers, so Builders and developers and engineers and surveyors who are most familiar with our systems and and get the most genuine and unfiltered comments they can from them and then from there, you know, we've
 We work in Bloomington. Some of us have worked a few other places, but we don't have great knowledge of best practices with regards to How again complex permitting processes can be done? You know if if we have four eyes looking at this is that redundant should we just have to? Should we be sending it from here to this stage or that stage to this stage? I think there's a lot that we can learn from best practices that we just
 Don't have experience with so they're going to bring that that sort of Experience to bear they're going to make recommendations We've actually also asked for them to to maintain I think two to three months after they've provided the report to help us Install the stuff that they've recommended that we do And it's you know, not only is it not a requirement, but we kind of had some trouble finding a
 that do it so we I talked to a lot of engineering and planning firms and and There was some familiarity with the idea but not too many were you know had had very much experience doing it So we've arrived at American structure point, which is an Indianapolis based firm that has done some work in Bloomington they will be you know by our mandate they're going to be completely impartial and and
 I think give us a good report. I had not given any thought at all as to what to do with that report in terms of Presenting it to boards or commissions or or making it public I mean it will be publicly accessible just by the fact that we have it we've asked for it and it'll be done But yeah, I have no problem Bringing it to the Planning Commission or to the council so that so that its findings are known and
 Yeah, it's not it's not an exercise in in in just Performative appearances or something like that. We really want to get to them to get to the heart of of Helping us improve Thank you Any other comments from council members Oh councilor Stossberg
 Thank you first I I want to say like generally and philosophically I support a shift away from consultants and to in-house staff I think that that is ultimately probably preferable as long as the Projects and assignments being asked don't require that kind of specialized sort of in like information and knowledge like you were just talking about with the audit Consultant so I'd support that generally speaking and then I also just wanted to
 Also kind of expressed my concern about what councilmember Piedmont Smith and Rollo I think we're both referring to earlier in terms of the like number of plans Versus what is it possible to construct and that is something that you know I've I've heard a couple times like, you know a plan can only sit on a shelf for so long before it becomes Pointless and you have to like redo it all again so I really don't want to like us to be creating more plans than we're able to actually follow through on in construction and
 so one of the things in terms of The 2026 Cross-departmental project list which I really appreciated how that was all laid out in terms of looking at that but there's just a whole lot of things in that design phase and just a few things in the construction phase and Construction as I mean, it's the most costly but it's like both in terms of funds and also in terms of just like
 People power and I mean we've heard about it from streets like there's only so much our staff can do in terms of how much street repaving they can do every year even if they had you know
 Endless money for materials and supplies. There's only so many hours in the day only so many employees only so many Appropriate weather days and things like that So I just want to kind of express that as a concern to make sure that our number of plans and that kind of stuff is managing to align well with what can be realistically Constructed as we go further down the line so that we're not wasting planning money and in my opinion It would be better to say delay a plan by a year
 because ultimately construction would have to be later than to try to get all of these plans up front and then have them linger on a shelf for too long, so I Then at this point just have to trust that your department is gonna be making sure that they're that they're doing that and Also with all the other related departments that that deal with those long-range plans and projects. So thank you very much. It's a good point. Thank you Any other final comments
 Rosenberger. Hey, sorry. I just want to kind of do again what I already said, but just because there was so much permitting talk, but The thing is like we like there's so many like housing types that are not allowed in our zones, right? Like our walkable zones for the most part Disallow missing middle housing and so like changing the permitting process is not going to reallow those zones but changing the UDO is of course, right and I know that some people know this but
 I just think it like needs to be said that I think that there is this like enormous focus on permitting that is taking focus off of ways to make meaningful change to our housing policies and I don't disagree that Developers do say that I Mean I agree that developers say that it's so unpredictable whether a project will be Approved or not and get permitted and but what they are speaking about for the most part are conditional
 projects and it is that I mean I've asked staff before like the time that permit an application is submitted to the end time that it is approved if it is approved and like I Think is it depends on a meeting I think maybe but it was like 30 days and then I mean again It's just like when we're looking at a conditional duplex that is delayed Six to nine months. It's just like no comparison where we are creating extra costs for People we want to be developing housing in our city
 Any other comments Then I'll just make one It's related to what customer Stossberg just said, you know, I'm really interested given that given that personnel costs are the major cost in for the city I'm really interested in thinking of these getting an idea more quantified and this may be really hard and
 difficult to do but quantify the For want of a better term maybe the opera we all know about opportunity cost right you spend money in one area you can't it's not available for others, but the opportunity creation That might be represented by New FTEs in these areas doing things that would otherwise have been Costed out
 through outsourcing consultants there and then for being done are probably more efficiently or in terms of expense and creating some opportunity The office that we can sort of I know just sort of see those FTEs is a little bit of that cause being offset by This opportunity creation that we would be doing by getting by hiring those folks So those positions adding those positions anyway, I know that's probably difficult but
 If oh, that was a gesture you didn't have one last thing to say Well with that, thank you very much and we're ready to hear from engineering
 Good evening council members. I'm Andrew Seaborg the city engineer and the director of the engineering department I look forward to providing you with an overview of the engineering department our 2026 budget proposal and some of the department's initiatives and challenges Please know that I'll be happy to answer any questions or expand on things that I may be glossing over over after my presentation or in follow-up dialogue in the coming weeks To quickly introduce the department we oversee use of the city's right-of-way and
 through permitting work done by other entities Managing capital infrastructure projects and making data-driven decisions regarding transportation operations 100% of our work is assigned to the city's transportation priority area and supports the vision and goals of the city's adopted plans the department
 Comprises 15 approved positions and this year we initiated a summer internship program in which our interns completed meaningful work assisting us in developing new tools and identifying process improvements Now jumping right into the department's proposed budget this slide summarizes engineering department budget by category and compares a 2026 proposal with prior years and
 The engineering department's 2026 budget proposal is approximately seven point five million dollars This budget is nearly double our 2025 budget However, it's critical to keep in mind that in prior years The department received significant bond funding for capital projects and those dollars would not be captured in this slide Along those lines the engineering department manages projects that receive funding from other sources that are also not captured in this slide some of those sources include TIF and
 Other departments like City Council federal funding allocated by the MPO and state funds awarded by in dot New to the 2026 budget some of engineering's proposed budget includes capital funding from Edie lit Dialing a bit into some of our proposed changes our personnel line is up for nearly 40% this reflects changes associated with updated citywide compensation practices and
 Plus some specific department staffing changes that I'll discuss in my next slide The department supplies account is up nearly fifteen thousand dollars compared to last year But the proposed value is generally consistent with years prior to that Our services budget is fairly flat with a minor decrease associated with an anticipated decrease in some on-call engineering contract service work and finally capital outlays reflects a significant increase in
 given our inability to utilize new bonding to cover some of these expenses. A detail that may be lost in this macro review is the shifting of our fleet replacement funding into a larger citywide funding account. As I previously alluded to, I'd like to highlight the department's three personnel-related changes included within the 2026 budget. The first change involves promoting one of our three engineering field specialists
 positions to a new program manager position The impacted positions are responsible for overseeing the city's right-of-way use permit program The work of these staff numbers is critical given it impacts the safety and accessibility of the city's transportation system While also being responsible to protect the city's infrastructure This change will improve workload distribution and provide structural resilience by better leveraging existing capacity within the department and
 It also provides a staff development opportunity while enabling improved and user consistency and responsiveness The second change adds a second project engineer position in recent years The department has struggled to move forward capital initiatives and has left approved budget funds unused due to insufficient capacity further due to capacity constraints we have been unable to make desired progress on standardization exercises and
 Told other departments that we were unable to assist in desired ways Beyond these missed opportunities the city's safety action plan suggests. There is even more work that we should be doing We are proposing to add this new position to address existing Capacity limitations and to make incremental progress and initiatives like those laid out in the safety action plan while the cost of this position is noteworthy and
 The anticipated savings from reduced consultant service contracts will offset the cost of creating this position and still result in a net increase in overall engineering capacity The third and final proposed change adds a new construction inspector position Similar to the additional engineer the cost of this new position is expected to be offset by a reduction in a single inspection service contract per year such a contract covers the cost of this new position and
 But the new position would triple our capacity compared to that contract This added capacity would enable the city to keep a closer eye on projects risking the risk reducing the risk of expensive change orders reducing risk of work being done incorrectly the first time which impacts construction timelines and To improve our ability to identify risks that may otherwise be missed until years down the road when facilities may prematurely start to degrade further this
 And the other proposed changes are expected to enhance morale by reducing strain on other positions And enable staff to feel more comfortable doing basic things like taking PTO during the summer when their kids are on vacation But it's heavy construction season Before I move on I want to quickly reflect on the team. I'm here representing tonight. I'm blessed to work with a group of People that are so dedicated to serving the community and supporting each other They are highly qualified and competent
 In part, because they are so great, we continue to experience turnover with a turnover rate of 29% since last year's budget presentation, and we've never operated with all 15 positions filled. Looking ahead to the future, I anticipate continued challenges with filling hard-to-fill positions and recognize the importance of continuing to develop a culture that attracts and retains the best. Reflecting on the department's org chart,
 It's important to bring attention to the fact the engineering department is now responsible to staff its first Commission The Transportation Commission was established with the explicit purpose of guiding the city's transportation endeavors focused on eliminating fatal and serious injury crashes Promoting sustainable transportation fostering equitable access and promoting community centric design to date the Commission has met twice and has three meetings scheduled later this year and
 Staff from planning and transportation have been extremely helpful in getting this Commission up and running other departments including ESD and public works have also participated in meetings It's worth mentioning the Commission still has two vacancies So I encourage folks that have an interest in transportation and in serving the community to reach out and apply to join the Commission up to this point staff and the Commission have been laying the groundwork of establishing rules and procedures and setting up systems to develop and communicate meeting materials and
 We've been playing a bit of catch-up given a gap in time without having a commission to discuss transportation matters and look forward to dialogue about Things like public works ongoing parking study traffic signal timing practices regarding things like leading pedestrian intervals and pedestrian recall and Upcoming capital projects like the next resident led traffic homing project Speaking of capital projects
 I'd like to take this opportunity to describe the basic life cycle of a typical city transportation project In short, I tend to think of these as having five phases planning design right away acquisition construction and operation and maintenance The planning phase is generally led and facilitated by the city's planning and transportation department that you just heard from in this phase basic project concepts or general direction is identified and
 Key questions about prioritization and funding tend to also be included The engineering department is typically involved in this phase of a project, but generally in a support role the following three phases design right away acquisition and construction Are phases in which the engineering department is typically the lead department. This is our expertise and one of our focus areas in the design phase we look to engineer solutions that reflect city goals and priorities and
 Including balancing issues like construct ability future maintenance needs stakeholder input and property impacts Speaking of property impacts some but not all projects do require the acquisition of additional right away In the right away phase we look to mitigate property owner impacts and make fair offers based on industry best practices and of course legal requirements and finally in construction we advertise and award contracts oversee construction work and
 Coordinate pay applications change orders and ultimately work to close projects out and transfer the asset to the department's responsible for their management upon completion So then the final life cycle phase of a project is generally led and facilitated by the public works department But depending on the facility type other departments like CBU or parks also play key roles That being said the engineering department supports this works much like we support the planning phase of a project Looking ahead and at recent examples
 A big focus of ours has been on maximizing opportunities. Taking a project like what might have been a traditional maintenance project, but using that as an opportunity to implement safety improvements like improved roundabout design, enhanced crosswalks, creating new green stormwater facilities. Some projects, like a basic maintenance effort or a traffic calling project, may be able to take place within a 12-month period, while other projects can easily consume at least three years of time
 Or maybe planned out years down the road depending on funding availability and prioritization. There are a few additional initiatives that the department is engaged on that I'd like to quickly highlight. Engineering plays an important role in the review of development projects, especially as they impact the public right away. We have supported the Hopewell development with Hopewell East infrastructure nearly wrapped up in active construction oversight on the first phase of Hopewell West.
 We are also in communication about other major projects such as the summit PUD the timing of this project or a project like summit is outside our control but can have very real impacts on our time and capacity as I alluded to a bit earlier with the proposed staffing change of our right-of-way use permitting team their work is of great importance and
 As an example with our legal department's assistance the work of this team enabled the city to successfully claim a 1 million dollar bond Due to violations associated with the contractors failure to repair the city's facilities in a timely fashion. I Believe it was in 2020 a significant revision to city code was adopted that improved the city's ability to work with contractors and hold them accountable Since that time we've been identifying some desired refinements that we'd like to move forward. I
 The exercises of drafting these changes has been taking some more time than desired given some turnover position vacancies The team also continues to incrementally make progress on developing and documenting standard references like drawings operating procedures and tools like EPL Progress on these initiatives improves efficiency But finding the time to do this work can be challenging. I'm particularly impressed with the team's adoption and utilization of EPL and
 Excited to see its continued development. I anticipate additional efficiencies to be realized as other departments have started utilizing this program more as well Thank you for your time and consideration of the engineering department's budget proposal and updates and some of our initiatives I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have We have questions from council members customer Stossberg
 Thank you I'm gonna ask you kind of the same question that I asked director Hittle about staffing because you're proposing more staff which once again I'll say that I'm generally in favor of adding staff in lieu of consultants but the traffic engineer position for example has been open for a Very long period of time because you've had such a hard time hiring in that position You mentioned that you've lost a lot of staff So I guess I have some measure of concern that we won't be able to fill those positions and then like
 Where does that leave us in terms of that the kind of tasks that that? Consultants had been doing our contractors had been doing for us Yeah I'm hopeful. I'm always going to be hopeful that we're going to fill these positions. I think I trust city staff We need these city staff to even oversee the consultants that we do hire and
 I think some of our engineering positions are hard to fill I think other engineering positions and other parents like CB you can also have some potential challenges of being filled That being said I am hopeful I also get jealous when I hear other departments say they're getting lots of applicants though, too So but I'm also that's great for them Okay, I guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope that we get some good applicants for that I
 and I think that any other questions I have I'll Submit in writing because I have to deal with some of the more specific like capital outlay kind of kind of money stuff But I also want to say I appreciate it in your memo how you said under capital outlay is like explaining that the it That it increased a lot but that that was because of last year We had the go bond that was kind of offsetting that so I appreciate that explanation. So, thank you
 Rollie you had a question. Yeah a couple Thank You mr. Seabour Thank you for your good work. I had a question. Could you expand a little bit on this one million dollar bond? that you of Could you say that again, I'm so sorry million dollar bond that you refer to I
 Yes, so that that was a bond whenever another entity does work in the city's right-of-way through our right-of-way permitting process We require that entity to provide a bond And and typically that's essentially to protect the city's interest if they walk away from the project or if they leave the road open We then have some some protection. So so that money is essentially going to be put aside I think something will be coming to council here shortly regarding that. I
 I thought that was just standard practice that we did that. I mean, I know that we've been negligent in the past. There was an example I can't remember the development on East Moores Pike where the developer walked away without putting in Infrastructure for the promise for the city, correct? Yeah, this was in Renwick, but I can't remember what it was a different name, but yeah Yeah, there's a lot of different types of bonds So that there can be a lot of confusion, but but yeah, okay. Well, we'll drill down on that
 questions written questions, so back to my major question that I talked about with the director of planning and transportation that is And it has to do with the fact that you know what I observe is We're in a period of austerity but we're anticipating for instance a 21 percent rate increase for utilities in order to and
 Pay-for-maintenance and also for new facility. We're gonna need a new fire station soon on Southwest side of the city. We're trying to catch up with police staffing I'm king. I'm concerned about level of service roads. And so my question was directed about the Level of service are we are we within those parameters? Are there any outliers that we need to? focus on I
 Hate to do this but level of service of what their level of service can be like level service of the pavement condition level of service of travel times level of service of comfort of referring to the transportation plan level service a through F and it falls between you know minimum D for old projects C for new is that That's my understanding sure capacity. I suppose I'm happy to follow up more with you offline on this too, but I did since I heard the question earlier I did a little research
 I didn't see in the comp plan or the transportation plan and establishment of a level of service threshold I'm usually that's related to delay in travel times, but I didn't see one in there. Okay, so 10 seconds left. Did we finish the road service study for summit the 4250 unit development that was approved traffic studies been completed An MOU has not yet been established regarding transportation and that's available to us. Could you send it? The traffic study is available. Sure. Thank you. Thank you
 I'll just ask a quick one The deputy mayor and at the start mentioned right away Acquisition as I don't if it was intended to mean this would be this way, but sort of An indicator of commitment Already gone towards the project has the right away for the high street project all been
 That all acquired Right away acquisition for the high streets ongoing some has been acquired some is in process Do you know about what percentage roughly? Of the needed right away has been acquired at this point. I I don't if you want happy to dialogue further Okay, it's in the early phases Thanks
 It's not fair to expect, you know that kind of detail top of your head, but I was just wondering there There are a number of parcels along that project. I think in my mind We've done other projects like that that like 17th Street where there were a lot of properties. So it's it's it's something we're accustomed to Thank you Councilman Piedmont Smith Yes, I wanted to follow up on councilmember Stossberg's question What
 That was part of her question. But anyway Are any of the expenses of the two new positions? expected to be offset by savings from Not needing as many consultants Yes. Yeah, I think essentially by creating these positions there in my mind There is no added cost to the city and we're gaining capacity Okay, cuz I didn't see much decrease in category three which is where consultants would be I
 Lot of these consultant expenses that we actually pay for out of category four because they're associated with projects capital projects like design fees Which is very hazy because it's a 97% increase because the geo bonds I wonder if we could maybe tease out Some of those details. Yeah, I could provide past examples of contracts that we have issued that I don't expect we would need going forward for sure Okay, great. I'll follow up. Thank you
 questions from council members Seeing none. We'll go to the public for public comment anyone in the room Like to make a comment Steve Olin I come to you as the chair of the Transportation Commission the new Commission that mr. Seymour just mentioned very encouraged to hear that
 the emphasis in this year's budget on getting getting positions filled and Right-sized and departments to have enough positions I note that that's true for your office as well as the engineering office and so that's why I come to implore you to take the opportunity to fill one of the two vacancies that is still on the Transportation Commission and
 We have one Council one mayoral position still open. I know that when I interviewed for the seat I was in a cohort of three and there was a quarter of three that met right before us surely one of them Would be qualified what I don't want to do is see another commission that continues to be understaffed The council wrote an ordinance that called for nine members There is an awful lot of work to do for a commission that combined three earlier commissions
 And we need all hands on deck. So and also if you can think of a second a person who you've already interviewed that you can forward to the mayor's office if they're looking for somebody still That might be a boon to everyone. So I just wanted to say again We still we have we one of our council appointees
 before Attending more than one meeting. We've only had two meetings, but the rubber is going to hit the road if I can use a Transportation metaphor with the September meeting. So if you can see it see fit to name somebody we'd be appreciative. Thank you Thank you I do have anybody online that's waiting to comment Nobody anyone else in the room want to comment Seeing none
 Back to council for final comments any council members want to make a final comment Councilman Stossberg I'll just thank mr. Seaborg for his presentation. I Think that I kind of already said a couple comments earlier in question time. So thanks Other comments Seeing none that
 We are ready to entertain Parking services Street and traffic Public works and yes free traffic You can tell Steve was here last All right
 Timer set there you go. All right. Good evening folks Adam Wason public works director for the city of Bloomington It's always an honor to talk about the good work. We've been doing this year and introducing what we hope to do in 2026 this is for the street division of the public works department and Obviously its transportation is a big topic that hits many departments across the city public works is certainly a key contributor and partner in managing our transportation network and
 We're the key player in the transportation game when it comes to the ongoing maintenance of the infrastructure that makes up the entire transportation network What does that maintenance look like from Public Works perspective? It goes beyond just filling potholes And includes our entire in-house and contracted paving program It includes maintaining all the traffic markings signals and signs for managing all users of the transportation system and
 includes all of our efforts to maintain our right of ways with snow and vegetation removal and management and Also includes our annual investments in sidewalk and side path maintenance Additionally the street division helps manage our urban street canopy and overseas our street lighting program One thing I'd like to highlight with the street division is that while they are the main team involved in maintaining our right of ways day in and day out they are also the first public works
 team members that are responding during our most inclement weather Whether severe storms and tornadoes flooding or winter weather events. This team makes up our first responders and I really hope That there is a day when the general public recognizes this team as true first responders Whether during this past May's tornadoes that hit the south side of the community right outside of some city limits They were responding
 They were helping other communities by sending staff out to assist in their dire needs This past winter's multi-day snow events This team responded day in and day out worked overnight and put tremendous and they put tremendous effort into doing it to the best of their abilities They are an emergency management response team for the city and I really want to highlight that it's an important work and it's Seemingly coming up more and more often
 To highlight some of our budget materials 2024 and 2025 have been some of our most successful paving seasons on record These investments are really important in order to maintain the important infrastructure that we're tasked with maintaining It's about levels of service as councilmember all I was asking about We're putting similar efforts into not only maintaining our streets and roadways, but into maintaining our pedestrian networks We've had tremendous success in eliminating
 Trip hazards through our saw cutting and grinding contracted program that has eliminated thousands of trip hazards over the past several years great economical investment economic investments in Reducing those hazards We've also been heavily investing with your support over the last several budget cycles in our traffic management system the centrax system And this is a conversion to a new and exciting technologies with all of our traffic signals Which will be a major step in our modernization efforts
 And maintaining and managing the traffic network We're also well on our way to obtaining all of our updated pavement and sidewalk condition index data that was funded last year The sidewalk data collect the sidewalk data collection is currently underway So if you see a small ATV with cameras roaming neighborhood sidewalks, that's what it is We should have that data within the next few months While this has been the good news of the past few years. We do have challenging time challenging times ahead
 We're trying to balance all the safety infrastructure needs that are so important, but we're also trying to be creative With these budgetary constraints were facing this year. We're we've had to do some transfers From funds that normally would come into the street department and had to utilize other funds We're really making sure that
 In coordination with the mayor's office and the controller's office that we come up with a strong plan to continue To invest in the maintenance of this important infrastructure Otherwise, you know, I highlighted our our emergency management response very important one of the big areas that we're still trying to stay ahead of and catch up with in some ways is is with capital and equipment purchases and
 Cost of this equipment is ever rising And and we're you know, we're trying to continue to invest that we don't get behind there The last part is the retention of qualified and trained staff. This isn't ever an ongoing topic of conversation We've had a lot of retirements of folks that had worked with our street division for 20 and 30 and 30 plus years over the last five years and so as we're bringing on younger team members and replacing those that have retired and
 They're often not coming with the CDLs that the previous employees had already obtained. So we're working a lot with CDL training programs And then you know the onboarding and training in the workplace is also very important and something that Joe Van Dievander and his team do very well So those are mostly my comments tonight for the Street Division. I do want to thank our Street Division director Joe Van Dievander for his leadership It's outstanding and he does a fantastic job working with the team at the Street Division Danny Bittner his deputy director
 as well as Jeff Morris Tony Carroll and Freddie love make up the leadership team down there and then Dana workmen our finance manager down there has many years of experience working with the city and does a tremendous job with the financial management and our grant applications for the community crossing program so want to recognize that staff and the whole team down there our frontline staff those workers that are
 operating the equipment run in the snow plows Dedicated team that really put great attention to the work that they do. So happy to answer any questions and That's all I have for you on the Street Division budget. Thank you. Mr. Wason questions from council on Street and traffic the council Morales Thank you, mr. Wason so it used to be our goal to repave streets every 20 years and
 and Well, I was actually told that not by you necessarily, but that's what I was told by People when I asked Naively, I believed it. It's unrealistic. I understand likely so my question is We have needs and then we have capacity so do we have I'm concerned about adequate funding for the relative to meet the need and
 So our traditional funding through the local road and street and the motor vehicle highway fund through state revenue sources Those are going to be dwindling it seems and that's the apparent trend that is we're facing What we're doing is trying to utilize leverage other outside funds the community crossings grant. We have really been successful with that So that's leveraging outside funds We're looking at the parking meter fund to help make investments in our downtown as it's intended for so it's while some of the traditional funding is going down we're trying to leverage other funding sources and
 Opportunities to stay ahead. Do I think we'll continue to stay ahead or improve our PC eyes? Not with current funding levels, but we'll hopefully be able to maintain at this point in time We'll see we'll get some good data on how we've done these last couple years with the current Study we're doing right now, which we should have this fall Yeah, okay. That's a good answer Obviously arterials and and you know get attention
 As they should I'm concerned about residential streets that are literally falling to pieces and So I'm curious to know and we're not gonna resolve this in a minute But putting forward a plan Are we capable of addressing those and what would it require even if we can't find the funding? But you know, where where are we in that landscape? Each of the last is it three times we've done the pavement condition index study. I
 The last three studies that we've presented to the council show exactly what we need to invest to either maintain or improve our rating systems Happy to make those available to everyone once again We I mean do we have a map can I look at a map and say, okay great, okay, I
 Fantastic. Well set a meeting in my office with Joe and Nate and we will go over all the beautiful maps that show all that and just to your point about the every 20 years Residential low-volume streets and neighborhoods expected at about every 20 years arterials mains. Those are more in that every 10-year range So that's that's kind of the differentiation there Okay. All right last 10 seconds 15 seconds You're maintaining Kirkwood
 It's getting a different intensity of use because it's been closed. We've had festivals like pride fest and it looks a little bit stressed out I've talked to some you know, is it your domain to go to when it's closed?
 Do you have to power wash it and clean it and so forth? Yeah, it's part of the reason we asked for that additional downtown specialist within the facilities budget and Definitely trying to keep after that and I overall think we've done a good job And I have gotten good feedback from the commute business community down there. Yeah. Okay. Thanks Councilman Stossberg Thank you
 I just noticed in the line items under other services and charges the streetlights and traffic signals Budget was cut almost in half my reading that right first of all because there have been like shifts and Like what account they're coming out of and if I am reading that right like what does this mean in terms of updating and improving that infrastructure was there like was it just over budgeted have we
 Some of that transition already. So we need less money next year. Like what's This is just a result of the budget scenario that we're facing as a whole city right now So, you know while we won't intend to maybe while we'll try to invest the same amounts in our paving It may be that we are reducing the amount of LED conversion. We're doing for streetlights next year to try to make up for that It's gonna be a balance and we're trying to make hard decisions with not great scenarios ahead of us
 Okay, so basically because of overall budget cuts related to changes in In Oh, maybe we're getting a corrected answer here
 Do you have more to add? No, okay So because of overall budget changes do in part at least to the state changes, especially maybe in bonding We just had to cut somewhere and so you chose to cut out of the streetlights and traffic signals as opposed to paving budget Yeah, and we are gonna try to backfill that with some of the parking meter money that I spoke about but it yes, you your line of thought is correct and why we're making these tough decisions Okay. Thank you
 Yes, I wanted to ask Almost everything of course in this Division is under transportation. But in your memo you have one item that's under community health and vitality, which is Parks trails green space specifically urban forestry which I thought was under parks and rec so I
 Is that is that a mistake or can you speak? So we partner with the Parks and Recreation Department on maintaining the urban forest They do more of the proactive work of tree trimming plantings Etc. We tend to focus our efforts on unsafe removals. So it's it's a partnership in the overall management of the urban forest Okay, but it is there any money in your budget for that? Yes Okay
 Because I all of like there's no General fund Used so it's but so it's allowed to use local Road and Street. Yes Absolutely. Okay. All right. Thank you other questions from council members Seeing none we are ready to go for the to the public and see if anyone the public has a comment about the parking services
 The street department traffic or could take either one actually go Good evening chairpersons rough. This is Christopher from the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce Since I was up, I thought I'd just give mr. Wason credit and how accessible he is At public works. I've always teased on the annexation. How do we plug why we would live in the city? I go public works. They do a great job. The streets are wonderful. Mr. Joe
 Van Deverdure does a wonderful job And I noticed these things and the improvement we've seen over the past few years So I just want to give kudos on that and not speak to the budgets But if anybody can make ends meet it's it's mr. Wason on the budget issues that we're facing Here in Bloomington, probably a lot of other municipalities. Thanks Anyone online to make a comment and no one online and then no one in the room
 Okay back to council for final comments councilmember Rallo Thanks for the presentation excellent answers mr. Wazen Councilmember Stasberg just showed me the map that you're referring to. It's really awesome. I had overlooked it So it clearly you're on top of it. You at least know the need and We can see the need so that's a very valuable tool and hope that we can address it
 So thanks. Thanks for your work Other final comments from from council. Oh that's most Osberg
 Just for context for the public if they're like what map is it that you're talking about? If you go to the street division page on the city website there's an interactive street paving map with current and historic and you can navigate through like like what paving projects there are for this year, but then you can also click off of that and on to
 what is it called the pavement condition index and then all of that is color-coded with a key and you can kind of see and and I would then assume that what y'all do is you go and look at the at the very poor and the poor and and build up from there in terms of your priority list and Yeah, so I think that that's just something to point out for the public Because it is
 There's a lot of information on the city website and it can sometimes be like challenging to find what it is that you want But that is there. Thank you Thank you Seeing no other Final comment We are ready to move to parking services I
 presentation of the 2026 budget hearings While I'm always last it feels a little bit different this time after presenting on three of four nights instead of just one Marathon night of seven presentations, so I'm not sure what I like better yet But I'll be sure to let you all know as I figure that out Parking services is really epitomize something that I've recognized more and more each year that I've been leading public works and
 When you have a team overall of roughly 140 full-time employees across all the divisions you realize that that is 140 personal lives That have their day-to-day challenges whether with personal or family health issues loss of loved ones injuries and more the team at parking certainly has faced big challenges in the last year and I'm proud of the way that that entire team has stepped up to support each other and
 It's also been a very busy and sometimes really frustrating year at parking services as discussed in last year's budget hearings We've been undertaking a master planning process for all things parking in Bloomington We're nearing the midpoint of that project and we are excited to see the results of what is recommended for how we manage on-street metered parking garage usage permits and technology neighborhood permitting among other topics that impact parking across the city and
 This hasn't been the frustrating part the frustrating parts of parking services this past year involves several areas that were actively working together as a team to address Our parking enforcement team is likely the most verbally abused group of staff members across the city Rarely does a day go by where one of these staff members are not verbally abused or harassed in some way for simply enforcing the rules of parking and
 For all those watching at home, we seriously do not know if the meter is expired for one minute or for an hour. It's either green or red. We've also had some very frustrating capital projects that have not gone as we had hoped. We've been quite disappointed in a vendor for both of our elevator projects at the Morton and Walnut Street garages. This vendor is very aware of our unhappiness
 But it doesn't change the fact that the projects are behind schedule and and not completed to date We're very close to completion and we look forward to closing those projects out But it has been nothing but a nightmare and I say that publicly the main budget highlights for 2026 include reductions of our 300 lines from projects that I should probably click through some slides here
 So overall and just looking at our 2026 budget We do have some pretty major reductions in our 300 lines that were from projects that were completed in 2025 like the parking master plan study And we're trying to say stay steady with our other budget lines while trying to stabilize our overall
 Public Works budget Some of the things that we're really looking forward to in 2026 is you know, we know we have the master plan Under underway right now. We look forward to being able to start implementing on Those recommendations which will probably include code update include code updates for the City Council. I
 We've been doing a great job of adding more and more ADA spaces both in the downtown and throughout our neighborhoods And then we've been really working on updating the pavement markings for our parking stalls as well Some of these challenges, we know we've got these budget reductions coming. We know we're trying to Be creative and how we operate and manage
 You know at the same time. This is a division that's had pretty high levels of turnover Both with our parking garage and other staff members. So we're really just trying to manage the staffing challenges and on a daily basis Otherwise, we look forward to working with all of our partners including the Transportation Commission the Chamber of Commerce downtown Bloomington Inc all of those
 businesses and residents that are impacted by our parking policies and look to make Improvements to all things parking as we move forward in both the latter part of 2025 and into 2026 I'd be happy to answer any questions as we close out these budget hearings Thank You mr. Wayson questions from council members councilor Rallo Yeah, my question will be I guess about the 4th Street parking garage I
 My understanding is that the Convention Center will be using it and there's adequate space. Is that still the case? I asked this question of John Weickart. Is that your assessment as well? Some capacity to serve the Convention Center whether it's enough capacity to serve all of their largest events as they grow I'm not certain that would be the case
 The the rebuild of the 4th Street garage has been successful. I think our occupancy rates are pretty strong Our revenue generation has been pretty strong. It does have some capacity still but you know for that largest biggest event at the new convention center I don't know if we'd be able to handle all of their parking needs at the 4th Street garage alone Okay interesting Well, then it begs the question where will they park? Which I guess has to be resolved at a different time
 but the revenue has been adequate for servicing debt on the I Need controller McClellan to jump in and verify that that it's actually meeting all debt obligations But I I know it's it's it's improved over even the first year of operations certain good to know I'll just issue it in a written form Okay, great. Thanks Other questions from council members
 Yeah, two questions One of the goals you have for well one of the Updates on 2025 goals that you had in your memo was to install license plate recognition software at city public garages And that's part of the Walker study. Yes I've heard from constituents a lot of concerns about
 Privacy when there are license plate readers, you know either used by police or by other government entities have you What is the I guess what is the argument in favor of using those Efficiency there may be some privacy concerns. It's pretty standard practice across most major parking operations Whether it's Indiana University other cities the license plate reader system is it's a matter of efficiency You know, we're
 We originally were hoping to move to that this year, but knew we had the master planning master planning study taking place. So we didn't Try to move forward with anything. We wanted the study to look at it and offer recommendations So we're gonna wait for that before we make any final judgments But it's getting to be more and more standard practice across the industry on how you manage parking throughout downtowns and other facilities so
 Let me understand this a little better. This would be a way to To monitor cars and then charge them for the parking. So let's think about it from the perspective like park mobile You know the officers are often, you know, so a beat officer for parking enforcement that is doing whether In a parking meter or if we went to park mobile in the garages I
 Instead of having the officer type in the license plate number into a handheld to then determine if the vehicle has paid for their parking through park mobile or not The scanning takes place. It's a
 Wouldn't know the rate of efficiency But I mean it's got to be tremendously high compared to having to manually type in and get the license plate correct So it's so it would be more to make sure that the the parking fares have been paid And and then if not, then you would go ahead and issue your citations So it's it's definitely just a matter of efficiency and being able to do things much more quickly So, yes, okay. Let me try to squeeze in a second question here. I
 The you mentioned the frustrations with the elevators and the parking garages being out and I've certainly noticed that What accommodations are made while the elevators are not working for people? Yeah, we have phone numbers posted if folks need
 Assistance with mobility and things they they don't call very often, but we respond quickly when they do you know, we've got a lot of folks that have been walking the stairs and and and having to utilize that but as soon as we get a call for assistance to we respond with With our staff and so then the staff like has a golf cart or something Whether it's one of our EVs or one of our vehicles will tend to give them a ride up to their the floor They're on. Mm-hmm. Okay
 All right. Thank you. Yep, not ideal. Let me tell you Council I Just wanted to know in your memo under other services It says that consultant fees and costs related to a major downtown project were removed like what major downtown project and was that removed because it's complete so that's gonna refer to probably the ADA marking project that we did some of our other striping projects and
 and So what was oh and then yeah the Walker parking study we don't need to fund it into next year Okay, so those are things that were complete. Those are things that will fall off in 2025. Okay, great. Thank you and then the other kind of detailed Question that I had related to the
 The line items at the end is that you have a bank charges line item that was budgeted 10,000 in 2025 and then jumps up to 75,000 in 2026 is that just like getting it aligned with what it should be because the 2023 and 2024 actuals were Like in the hundreds of thousands like what what is what are these bank charges stemming from? I'm I think this is the first time all of all of my hearings that I'm gonna just say Nate. Can you handle this? I
 Thanks so much. Hi Nate nickel Public Works Department. So bank charges refers to They're essentially a transaction fee for credit card purchases and it's the the fee that's assessed for for those We have been using hardware and software lines to cover those And we feel it's more appropriate to put those in bank charges and we've been moving money back and forth the bank charges over the years so putting it in bank charges is really more of a
 True transaction costs and we felt that would be more transparent to put it in bank charges I just want to point that out I suppose to people that It does actually cost something to use your credit card for you know small purchases So it does cost money we're essentially the the merchant so we get the credit card fee with that and most people almost everyone
 Doesn't have cash they pay with cards and our system set up for credit cards. So really it is a reflection of The cost that we incur. Yeah, okay. Great. Thank you It's just like every restaurant you go into right now that says three point five percent extra if you don't pay cash Other questions from council council Marala Have a little bit time. I think scooter enforcement. Where are we on scooter enforcement?
 Moving them. We're still having staff issue Finds to the operator when we find them and not in compliance You know We're much better throughout the downtown core the commercial districts when we get out into the neighborhoods and we have folks leaving across sidewalks We're not seeing those as often So I'm sure we're not doing as good in neighborhoods as we are in our commercial districts But that's kind of the nature of how the scooters get dispersed our fines being issued by
 I believe that yes, I'm pretty certain they're still being issued when we find them and I can verify What we've issued to date. Okay. Thank you Seeing none anyone from the public like to make a comment at this point anyone online I
 Good evening and Chris turns you for the greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. Good job counsel tonight on questions. You can tell you're in full fourth day budget hearing mode I want to add a question to parking in on the trades garage with the forge added and then the new hotel where are we on capacity that that garage had notoriously been very little used in its first few years and
 With the forge in the new coming hotel. Well, how would we look in that specific area for our parking needs? Thank you Any other comments from the public or anyone online waiting to comment Thank you So back to council for final comments Customers Tosberg
 question for mr. Wason about the license plate reader because the way that you are describing it to councilmember Piedmont Smith was that it wasn't necessarily going to be something that scanned like every single license plate coming in but it was going to be a tool for Enforcement officers. So can you like clarify? exactly how that would work say in parking garages or
 Yeah, it's okay. Go ahead and respond that I'd like to know the answer that yeah If I could if we could address this and more on the written questions because what we're really waiting for is Walker's Recommendations on this and we actually have an internal staff checkpoint tomorrow where I can ask them some more questions around this But the intent the intent is that it does read the vehicles as it goes by to determine and then that feeds into our system our t2 system and
 Believes what it would be on to determine is that paid parking or not when we were originally talking about it with the parking garages It was to be able to go to a more gate list system where you don't have the gates But we were hoping to do that But then with the master planning process we held back wanted to go through that to determine what the recommendations would be before we implemented so there's still a lot of room to discuss this and figure out what the best way or if it's a technology we should even use and
 Okay, so maybe like two different types of license plate, okay because I mean one of the reasons like this is attached to a comment for me because I actually got a parking ticket once because the parking enforcement officer had had Miss inputted by a license plate number and so like that is the kind of thing that happens because they're small little devices and you know like
 That just kind of happens sometimes so I can really see how that piece of scanning could be a really valuable piece of efficiency both for the parking enforcement officer but also for the person who is then either going to get a ticket because they deserve a ticket or Get a ticket and then have to go through the whole appeals process and be like I really did pay my parking and this is not my license plate and so like I can see value in it, but I can also see concern, you know if we're like scanning everything and it's going into some like mega database, so I guess those are two different like
 Pieces in terms of that. So I just that's why I wanted to clarify that purpose with that question and then that little comment and anecdote so Thank you very much for Absolutely. Thank you your involvement Other comments from council councilmember, sorry just very quickly director waste and I think our adopted rules allow us to
 Asked the question that somebody asked from the Stand so would love to give you a chance to answer that absolutely As I said the deputy mayor and app as she was sitting next to me and mr. MG said
 Was asking about you know the hotel being built and how that would impact the Usage rates at the trades district garage. I said out loud. It can't be built fast enough It's clear that you know, the trades district garage is underutilized right now. I think the intent of
 When staff was originally recommending that however many years ago when it got approved was that they were hopeful the trades district would have developed more quickly And that garage would have been more heavily used more quickly. That has not been the case I blame some of that on the covid, you know like in the impacts and folks Not returning to the office as much right away But that hotel we have the capacity. We can't wait for it to get built We will house all of their customers for as long as we have the capacity, you know, and the forge is built, but I don't
 I don't believe they have occupancy yet of major companies that they're trying to bring in but We can't wait to sell those permits and bring that revenue in to make sure those bonds get paid off quickly Other final comments or questions you can use it use your comment as a question, but then you won't get to comment Thank You director waste and I appreciate your answers Looking forward to
 potential revenue sources parking meter fees is probably one and I suppose we're probably in for debate on competing uses Whether to pave use the money to pave or whether to use it for something like transit is that is that debate going to occur and Will it occur? before council then
 My answer to that would be The usage of the parking meter funds can certainly be up for debate But it's also only up for debate within the limits of which the state law allows you to spend those funds So I don't have that list right in front of me or memorized but it's very much you're restricted in how you can use parking meter funds What types of investments you can make where you can make them? So we've been you know, I know we've had staff reviewing that I don't have it all off the top of my head but
 I don't know if investing in transit routes or Transit service generally isn't allowed use for parking meter funds, but we can certainly find that out I guess it was rhetorical will come before council since it'll be Appropriation ordinance of some kind if we were to change rates any rate changes would certainly come before the council and then any appropriation requests would come before the council well in the in the desired use
 Would be specific probably as well. I mean, I would assume council would be I guess I'm not involved in that. That's a anyway, I'll leave the baby figure out in another venue Thanks any other comments from council members customer people on Smith Just to put a plug-in for that parking study that Walker is doing to come to the Transportation Commission
 we obviously have some expertise on the Transportation Commission that Has a lot of information about parking And I think that's a good venue to to discuss their findings. So at the next meeting we're giving them an update of the Transportation Commission Great. Yeah, I think it's very important that public works be part of the conversation on that Commission in general. Thank you customer daily Thank you. Sorry clarifying question on the the
 Sorry, I know we're breaking the rules left and right tonight on the parking scanners It can check so they can check t2 and park mobile That's what I need to kind of clarify and figure out exactly It will input into our systems to be able to determine if payment has been made or not Got it. So but we can we can definitely get some very good clarification on that. Thank you. Absolutely Any other comments or quick questions for mr. Wason
 Councilman guess I'm sorry just a quick comment more. So I think for us But I think I think it raises a really important question
 On on sources when we think about sources of revenue and and parking meters are one such source of revenue You know somebody sitting in the room here who's been advocating for years of us increasing parking fees for example, or at least thinking a bit more Critically about you know different methods of parking and places where it should cost but I'm pretty sure that
 Those funds can be reverted to the general fund anyways It is a it is a thing that we should pull the thread on because I mean again in our current environment These are I think you know, it's one of the tools that may be available to us to do Things that we want to see done in the city. So I added something we should have dragged our feet on I think Any other comments Seeing none we have reached a
 The end of our departmental budget hearing for tonight and for the series of four. And who's going to take over after this? Me? You're chairing the meeting. I'm chairing the meeting. All right.
 Expect right. Thank you everyone all staff We are ready to entertain the motion that was made at the beginning of the meeting Yeah, but Discuss it. Yeah, and that's something that may entertain it So Councilor Stossberg
 Sure, I'll go ahead and intro this just for a minute. So this Concept sort of stems from maybe the first budget night especially when there were several councilmember comments about the cost of living increase and that it had been Stated that the actual cost of living increase was 2.7 But the proposal was 2% and we had kind of a follow-up discussion at the fiscal committee meeting about that concept and the statutory
 Responsibilities given to council in terms of you know council can cut lines But we can't add things we can ask for things to be added of the administration But that one of the kind of directives from the administration was that like if we want to add things then we also need to Be willing to kind of say out loud. Hey like I
 Like think about cutting, you know money from here so that we can add to things and so there were a couple members who Express specific interest about those cola increases and wanting to get those up to two point seven percent I believe in the fiscal committee meeting somebody can correct me if I'm wrong from that meeting that the controller identified that that would be just under five hundred thousand dollars or so and So that's at least one topic of discussion. I wanted to make sure to put before council We would have to like go through
 through kind of an additional process of like like official recommendation and approval for those kinds of changes but to be able to right now say hey like do we want to try to do that are there specific places that people could identify and go like yeah I want to prioritize that 2.7 percent and you know taking money out of this line or taking money out of this like like bucket or
 Category or like any of those sorts of ideas in terms of prioritizing So that was at least one topic of conversation that you know I heard on the first budget night was kind of echoed in fiscal committee That I wanted to give us a chance to talk about and this was like the only time that we could really do it in terms of our schedules and then the other piece of course is going hey like what else do people want to talk about in terms of overall impressions of the budget overall, you know things that they want to contribute or think about modifying because there's a
 really pretty narrow window that we can really think about changes to the budget before the controller needs to submit things to the state and get the ordinance ready for our like Meeting on September I think is 24th. So that's like the intro I suppose in terms of what kind of feedback I was
 Thinking that we would be able to share with each other with the deputy mayor with the controller who I hope is still online in terms of general impressions and General potential will of the council to make any budget modifications Does anyone have any additional input or response or questions or
 Guess we could invite the administration to respond Deputy mayor nap Just so everyone knows the controller and I already talked about the cost of living and she thinks there is she's willing to accommodate that You know, I think on the administration side we were also nervous about that idea so I think you know going up to
 2.7 is possible. It is a big chunk of change and I think that's helpful for all of us to know that it is you know, just under half a million dollars and As we discussed the fiscal committee Finding half a million dollars is possible And as we keep having conversations finding multiples of half a million dollars over and over again becomes less and less possible and I know that it's very difficult in this kind of budget or even in budgets of the past to be able to really see what can you cut and
 What you know, what is when you're looking at category lines or even light items? What does that really mean? It's difficult for us, too So any we're looking for anything you can tell us about hey Here's a general area where if you were to suggest to cut there to accomplish some other goal that we all want to achieve whether that's more and deeper investment in roads or more sidewalk repairs or whatever that thing is it's helpful to us to know and
 Where where we might have some common ground so anything is helpful Thank you for that input Any other council members have anything to say about this councilman Piedmont Smith Well, um, yes, I'm one of the council members who who Spoke up about the cost of living increase not matching what it actually Is costing people to to live the the cost the actual
 four point seven percent, which is the the official two point seven percent, sorry Yeah, no, that would be that would be really bad Which is actually, you know keeping up with inflation Whereas what the budget that's present to us has two percent So I am in favor of You know increasing it to two point seven percent. I think you know, we're
 adding staff before we're Doing right by the staff. We already have I think that's a bad practice As far as where that money could come from I There's one spot that I you know, I've I've put in my questions for the legal department Their special legal services is budgeted substantially higher between 2024 25 I don't know
 you know, it's budgeted at $917,800 and I'm curious what the current balance is in that line. If they really need that much money, it's, it's substantially higher than under the previous administration. And I don't think we're more litigious than like in the previous administration. So that's, that's just one line that I was eyeing for maybe some savings.
 But I would love to hear from colleagues if they would also support increasing the colo Councilmember Rosenberger. Yes, I support that. Thanks Any other comments from council members customer all I also support it We went through a process and I appreciate the administration
 Raising salaries which hadn't been done adequately to reflect previous inflation and that's bad for morale. It's bad for hiring and I think that we ought to keep pace if at all possible that should be a priority and I appreciate the administration's willingness to do that perhaps looking at consultant reports and looking at Yeah legal fees. I'm not sure specifically what they're earmarked for and You know
 Large-scale road projects or something like that for purposes other than Well major redesign that could be delayed for some time I suppose which we mentioned earlier might be targets, but Maybe we could correspond Regarding that. I'm sure we all can go through the budget and perhaps come up with ideas Thanks
 other comments by council members I'll just chime in to say I Agree, we should I support the idea of raising the cola to the cost of living if if not, it's really effectively a pay cut And I think that has an effect on morale, I mean most of us have probably worked in jobs where this happened and It does feel
 Like you're devalued and it feels like a pay cut When we know full well and everybody talks about how much everything's costing more everything cost But the place we can cut is in is with paying our employees. Mr. Weiss and was just talking about well the cost of Doing the street work and all these projects is going up and we have to do it right and that's just the cost is going up so
 those same expenses for materials and supplies and basics is going up for at citizens consumers and So I really think we do need to look for What some may consider I in some cases consider sort of a luxury Project be it spending more money on looking at walnut in college
 buying more right away for High Street or You know You know those may I'm not saying they're not in there. I'm not saying they're meritless but they're working and they've been working for a long time and So maybe those are places we could look for hundreds and hundreds of thousand dollars worth of savings and maybe they can
 Revisited if the need is still going to be there It then if the needs going to go away if there is a real need for this project and it's going to go away then they weren't really essential Councilmember, sorry, I think this first then you councilmember sorry Okay, I'll go first
 to potential places, I think maybe to look. One that we heard this evening, I think there was quite a bit of padding in, I forget, was it engineering? It was like an extra 1.2 million for implementation of a study.
 Other services line. I'll let me actually bring this up But but there's like an additional 1.2 million from what it was last year and the reasoning was hey We actually need a little bit of extra money because we're uncertain about the cost So that might be a place kind of gets to I think what? Perhaps was the most useful comment that any of us made throughout the four days here is what Councilman Freler already opened day one on is that you know this the sort of concept of deficit
 Budgeting even though we haven't in five years ever actually spent in in deficit Sort of suggest that actually there's a lot of padding in in in the budget. So Maybe that's one place to look the second place to me I think goes to something that comes from Rosenberg were saying in her comments tonight is that I mean I think if there's a study being done
 I'll pick on permitting a bit more, but it's like we're still studying stuff that we already kind of maybe know the answers to. Those are areas where you could cut them. I think there's other places our minds could go. There's these small bits of things, but I'm not much of a
 I don't think we'll find a hundred hundred instances of you know $500 or something like there are a thousand instances of $500 I think would be a lot easier to You know find those areas where we sort of over budgeted. It's probably seems like the place we should look Yeah, I was just gonna say I I think we need to Incorporate the cost of living adjustments as well. I've been saying for months that I
 We are facing, you know some really really tough financial choices and and I think we need to be super strict with our budget This is not the time for us to be looking at projects We'd like to implement or things that we think would be nice to do and as much as I'd love to be able to do all of that Fun stuff that we sometimes talk about, you know wanting to do to improve the city right now. We just need to kind of keep up the city if that makes sense and that means investing in our employees so that we can retain our great employees that we worked so hard to get
 Because without them then we will be in even worse shape. So for right now, I think we need to kind of cut where we can and and Support the things that are most important including our employees And then you know hope that we then have that padding, you know for those rainy days for when things might get a little tougher In another year or two. Okay, that's it. So I'm sort of viewing this as more of a
 Discussion at this point. There are than a formal Organized set of presentations. So if council members already spoken have more to add, please do Councilman Sossberg. Thank you I also want to say that generally like I support trying to get as close to the two point seven percent as we can Yeah, just generally speaking with that I also
 maybe kind of echoing a little bit of what Flaherty said on the first night and and Councilmember sorry just said about the reserves and the fact that we You know have a deficit budget this year. We had a deficit budget We're proposing one in 2026. We adopted one in 2025 in 2024 2023 2022 we had deficit budgets, but we actually came out ahead in the end and so I guess I'm I really want to
 Figure out, you know in that analysis like does it look like 2025 is is also gonna end up being a surplus because one of the things last year I heard repeatedly was that we have more surplus than we really want to have in terms of like how much surplus it's good to keep and if we continue having these like Deficit budgets so that we can use up our surplus, but then we keep on having surplus like Do we have to cut anything
 Or can that add to the deficit and like I'm not trying to get out of having to cut things. I Appreciate the ideas of cutting something from the consultants from special legal services. I I
 Hesitant about the design kind of stuff in the row acquisition because I think we're in the middle of some of those things It would be more detrimental to stop in the middle of certain things then it would be but but maybe some of those Studies that we haven't started yet that could maybe be delayed but I also would like You know a real analysis of this year's budget in terms of how close we're gonna get to actually like are we actually gonna end up spending more this year and
 We are gonna have in revenues and I don't know if we really have an answer to that right now though deputy mayor standing up that maybe we do But that's I guess one of the things that I want to make sure that that we look at in terms of trying to get close to this 2.7% Oh, yeah, please
 So this question of you know, what do we have that's padding in the budget is a really great question and I just want to remind everyone that Because we don't have the bond this year that we actually did take out more Already than may be visible. So if you think about our budget last year where we had Was it what was the deficit last year? Just I'm sorry. I don't remember off the top my head but there was an extra five million dollars that we spent that was in the bond and
 That now is being absorbed by our regular budget process and our our deficit is still less this year than last year I do think that there are some just procedural things that we could just If we can just chat about them a little bit that might be helpful to understand and one is if I was looking at the the office of the mayor's budget for example for last year
 We had open positions for a large part of the year and that was true for other departments as well and sometimes people will use some of that money for temporary employees and sometimes the staff that are there just Cover for it or you just don't do the work yet that if it's a new position So I think sometimes in the past when there are those When you end up being saved at the end of the year, you've spent less than you planned. It's because you didn't have
 All of your personnel filled which I think we'll see less of as we get deeper into the salary implementation and the other thing is I think just philosophical about How often do we come back if we don't plan for enough money if we don't pad things out like who what if we get a great idea in the middle of the year and we need to Pay a consultant or buy something there's an opportunity for example to buy a fire truck two years early at a better price. I'm just
 Making that example up if we get those opportunities and we don't have the money built into the budget as buffer How hard is it to come back and get a new? Appropriation or how willing are you to consider those rolling? You know, we cut it closer to the bone. Can we come back and ask for more? So I think there's wiggle room to think about how we operate and the kinds of decisions we make about that We're willing to work with you on that Thank you I'll add
 You know, we always talk we always hear about you know wages being a problem in Bloomington wages being as big a part of the problem with cost of living in Bloomington relative to other places in the Midwest or in Indiana is is just as big a part as the cost of housing the cost of things and
 Is is is low wages and city blooms is a big enough city. I mean a big enough employer in this city that You know we can Exert some upward pressure on wages community-wide I feel like And so to you know to to be doing this Feels like we're doing something rather than just
 Constantly scrambling to try to find ways to subsidize housing and provide social services support Here's a way we can work on the wages side Push it up. So this just I feel like this is really important and With that if no one else said oh counselor P. Mott Smith I Don't know if
 Controller McClellan is is still on the call, but I want to recognize that yes. Okay, very good. I want to recognize that employees are paid from a variety of different funds and where we've had the most revisions or Not revisions reversions Is the general fund some of
 Some of our other funds that have personnel expenditures in them don't have that kind of cushion. So, um, and, and if we're saying, you know, well, we can cut this, this or that in order to pay that higher cola, um, we have to consider that, you know, what we're cutting may not be in the same fund as the fund that's paying for a portion of those that salary increase. So, um, I don't know if, if,
 Controller McClellan can speak to that, whether that would present a very large difficulty in trying to expand the COLA. Hi. Can you guys hear me? Barely, it sounds kind of loud. All right. That's better. Okay, so I'm kind of,
 hard to hear me? Is this better? Is it better if I speak a little louder? Okay, I see thumbs up. Isabel did an excellent job of describing just the basics of how those funds work, and it was really great to hear Isabel describe that that way because that is exactly how it works. We do have some cushion in the general fund to absorb a 2.7 percent COLA,
 But other funds are a little more difficult, like the parking facilities fund and the MVH fund. But there are some options, some things like letting the general fund support that fund next year, or trying to find more cuts in those funds, maybe cuts in overtime.
 Councilmember Stossberg also did a great job in describing the situation in the funds as not always spending everything that is budgeted in those funds. Sometimes we have to wait until the end of the year to see those savings and be able to do some transfers around in the fund to cover the personnel costs. That's not a good plan for budgeting. It's not what we want to do.
 We know going in that there are some options. So I'm gonna work really hard with the administration, with the other departments to try to find a way to work that 2.7% into all the funds that we have. That's all I have. I am still here and I'm happy to join the discussion and answer any more questions you have. Thank you for your input and for responding.
 I just want to first say thank you to the controller for be willing to do that work to try to figure out some of those details And let me know what what I can do to help support that but I also wanted to speak to a
 Deputy mayor's kind of question slash comment in terms of process with additional padding and and that idea that like if some of the additional padding was taken out then There would be like this higher potential for having to come back With for to ask for additional allocations in different ways and I guess like it puts some like additional kind of
 Onus maybe on us as council to have to deal with that kind of budget allocation like throughout the year But as a personal matter, I guess I would probably prefer that Systematically as long as it wouldn't necessarily have this interfering effect and I think for the for the most part it Somebody else maybe needs to correct me if I'm wrong like a simple appropriation ordinance
 Shouldn't be that onerous in terms of legislation because it should be relatively Templated I think in the same way that say a salary like our elected official salary ordinance is a pretty basic template And you know if you just think like okay We need this much money to go from this fund to this fund that that shouldn't be You know this month's long process of figuring out how to write the ordinance and so the only real gap in time I think that would occur in terms of being
 to get that in front of council would be our summer recess and then August because we don't have very many regular sessions in August generally because of budget stuff so I guess
 That's a rambly way of saying I would prefer that as part of process as Opposed to having like padding built in all over the place everywhere. Like I'm not opposed to some padding Because I do think that things come up and it's you know much easier to process without it But I'm I'm also not opposed to having less padding with the expectation of more Or the possibility of more mid-year Appropriation ordinances
 Councilman Stosselberg, could you elaborate a little bit on what you meant when you use the term interfering effect this interfering effect Fearing with a flow of legislation through the year or what did you exactly mean? Oh that like if something say came up in June for example that you know in the deputy mayor's example of oh there's a good deal on a firetruck and
 And we have one meeting in June and and then we go on recess until mid-july then there's that like six-week gap where really eight-week gap then where You know, we'd have to have a first reading and then a second reading and so there would be this like delay in that processing So just in terms of like council calendar There are a couple places where there could be a delay that maybe could make a difference but maybe only a couple so that's the kind of thing that would need to like be assessed in terms of like
 Like that kind of padding and because it's a question like how much padding do we need like like it kind of sounds like part of what's been built in historically is enough padding so that you know, there's there's a very rare need to come back to council for those kinds of appropriation requests and what I'm saying is like hey, let's maybe have less padding which then
 You know is a higher chance not necessarily a hundred percent chance But just a higher chance of having to come back and that and I would be okay with that workflow But I'm like one councilmember out of nine and maybe y'all aren't okay with that workflow but I was just you know communicating that to the administration that that would be a workflow preference for me if that was Plausible In terms of council schedule does that does that answer your question? Yeah Thank you any any final
 sort of councilmember statements or comments or thoughts you want to add at this point to councilmember Piedmont Smith Well, I just want to Encourage colleagues to you know, if they have other reservations about this budget now is the time to discuss those I believe the Controller has a deadline of September 12th to submit
 Total budget amounts to the state and then of course the legislation needs to be turned into the council office 10 days prior to the September 24th meeting so we are running on a tight timeline and as you as you know and as has been said tonight we can When the legislation comes to us we can only cut we cannot Add anything to the budget or revise in other ways
 So for my part, the only other concern that I can think of at this point that gives me pause about this budget is something that I mentioned earlier, and that's about funding more planning studies before we can at a pace
 that is faster than we could realistically implement such studies because the studies have a shelf life, of course. And if we, you know, if we keep funding studies, especially given the new staff that has been requested by planning and transportation, they're like, oh, if we get these new two new staff members, we can do two new studies. And it's like, well, wait a minute, you may need new staff for other reasons. But if this is the only reason, then I don't, I'm not convinced that
 You really need the staff. So that all hangs together for me. I'd like to understand why we are trying to churn out these studies when the implementation takes more time than the study. So that's another concern of mine. Thank you, Council Member Piedmont-Smith. Any other final comments that we made?
 I'll say There's not time for this if it doesn't exist I mean, I'm sure the information exists in a scattered way, but got I would really love to have a list of Projects that I would consider to be somewhat elective projects such as the Indiana Avenue College of Walnut High Street the prop a list of what's been spent so far and
 Each one each project what's been spent so far What's it been spent on and what remains to been to be spent to bring that project to fruition or completion? you know to have that information and Feel look at that would be helpful in this for me all very helpful in this kind of situation when trying to find some money first time that I consider to be an extremely high priority and an urgent priority as opposed to more of a nice
 If we can do it Councilmember, sorry. So yeah, thank you so much. Um, you know one thing that just reflecting on all of this I think that is Really I think relevant to to highlight is I think first and foremost the The time that we're living in with
 Se1 and all of these things I think highlights the fact that we as a city have actually done a really good job with budgeting for you know, and and you know I'm looking at the three of you sitting there who've you know bit on council for a millennia or whatever but like But but but that that we actually are in a really good position relevant to the hand that we've been dealt right and I think that that
 first and foremost is something that we should be echoing to To the public that you know sort of when you're looking across, Indiana You know the our Bloomington way has worked. Okay, so I think is something really important. I think the flip side of that though is that we have
 Healthy reserves we have you know funds that we're being creative with we we have questions around additional revenue sources but but one of the things that that that I feel is is
 maybe lacking in the current budget, which is, in many ways, a reflection of that positive nature of how we've operated as a city and how we continue to operate and fantastic decisions that the current administration have made and so on and so forth, is that, in many ways, this budget, to me, is kind of like a, I don't know, like cruise control budget. I'm maybe speaking a little bit flippantly, so don't take this as, like, critique, okay? But in the sense that,
 On the very first day I asked these questions about that, you know, there's another side of of how do you deal with financial constraints and part of that is having a really strong strategy for where we invest money to save ourselves money in the future or to produce more revenue in the future and so so this question of how are we going to govern and make decisions about about
 potential deficit spending or spending into our reserves in the general fund. I think it's something that we as a council need to answer. There's certain things that government can do, and perhaps only government can do, like investing in roads and implementing plans that we have on the shelf. And so I'd love, as we're continuing right now in this priority-based budget, as this step towards outcome-based budgeting,
 There's there needs to be some element of saying like this is what we're investing in outside of just you know where we're going to keep things keep things going and so.
 Yeah, I think we have a little bit of space to do that. And I'm not talking about new and shiny things. I'm just saying that I think we need a set of decision-making criteria in the situation where if we were to cut this budget down significantly, let's say, but we want the administration to come back to us and ask for appropriations, what's our thought process in doing that, right? And can we give them some sense of this is the way that we will think
 about spending beyond this line, right? So, you know, maybe a little bit all over-the-place thoughts, but yeah, that's sort of my general thoughts, but I do really think we ought to echo the fact that we really are in a fairly good position as a city, and that's because of decisions that have been made in the past, and I think that we're moving in an even better situation. So just wanted kudos to everybody on that. Thank you for that comment.
 Just want to echo again what councilmember Piedmont Smith said about studies and and because I kind of said it earlier already and it's really like I'm really like tied about this in a lot of ways because I think a lot of these studies connect to the safe streets for all plan and that I do like every time somebody gets hit by a car every time that there's some kind of Fatal or high injury accident like I cringe and I go yeah like that is a spot that is an issue and we need to figure out fixing it
 And so it feels really urgent that we get those things figured out at the same time as, you know, you have to put it against the reality and go, okay, so we can figure out a good plan, right, the second for, you know, remediation of this, but then can we afford, you know, that actual remediation? And so that is definitely like, I'm sorry that Director Hill's not here, and Director Seaborg, because they're the ones that, I mean, because some interventions related to safe streets are gonna cost a lot, and some of them are not gonna cost very much.
 They're the ones that are in the best position. I mean, so there's that long list of Design stuff of row stuff that I cited You know, I didn't I am NOT the person to go through that list Councilmember rough just just talked about you know, actually wanting real numbers that you know Go with the different projects that were kind of in the middle of some of those things on that list might not actually cost very much
 implementation but would make a really huge difference and so that's where Kind of you know, I'm I agree with the concern about the studies but I also think that there's just a lot more variables in in determining that actual cost of implementation then I know then that I am prepared and
 To know for sure but that is information that the planning department in the engineering department should be able to to navigate Potentially provide us with provide the controller with just to make sure that we don't end up with plans that sit on the shelf until they're expired Because based on last year's conversations I would never in a million years have guessed that you would be amenable to cutting any kind of studies like that the message we got last year was where the studies why aren't you doing this work and
 Make the plans move it forward or at least that's what we heard not saying that's what you meant to say That is that is that was a takeaway. So this is really helpful information I do think you know I've lived in Bloomington since 1990 since before this building was renovated before the beeline trail before a lot of things and so I've seen the impact of long-term planning and very ambitious transformational ideas that get invested on that take
 Many many years to complete and so I I don't want to dismiss studies or long-term planning because i've seen How transformational it is and it's exciting and wonderful And this is exciting surprising weird information that i'm taking in tonight. So I appreciate your candor and sharing it Council member rosenberger Hi, okay, I first i'm just
 Sometimes quiet. I don't exactly understand the purpose of this but I'm trying to play along I think I don't understand the goal. We're trying to get tonight. I guess okay, I First I will say no for me last year and similarly this year I'm like we need to stop studying and we need to start doing it doesn't mean cut studies that we need like college walnut that was in progress and it was delayed and it wasn't funded last year and like college walnut to me our streets that
 They're part of our high injury network people die on them. People are seriously injured on them regularly people speed on them their Wide crossings their high speeds there. I think that they are mostly dangerous and like I actually consider it like urgent to get that looked at and fixed but I'm like, let's do it right like Studying doesn't have to be like we can study and we can do in a year is the thing like I
 We don't have to budget every year for one piece of a project, you know and I so I I don't think it's like as straightforward as don't study, but I also want to say like Don't use a study to delay work for me So because like yes deaths on our roads like make me nauseous and like it is so urgent to me that we fix our high injury network, right and
 So I guess I don't want I don't want it that some council members are saying let's not study things and like let's wait on them I just want to say like I'm not saying that I guess okay customer sorry in one really quick comment and this
 courtesy of who I'm going to start calling our 10th member, but Kevin Keough sent an email emphasizing something that I think we brought up in some threads, but I think said it in a way that is also worth adding to this conversation.
 The importance of looking at the revenue side And he said then I am now quoting when I was looking at the variance report I was amazed how the estimated revenues were so low and there were very large positive variances So seems that the city should keep tabs on the actual revenues through the year keep current actual figures Thanks, so thought I would share his his input because I think that's the really useful points as well that we've mentioned as well
 Any more comments to me made councilman Stossberg me. Let's say give you the last word. Oh, I introduced you to close it I I guess I'll close it I wanted to respond a little bit to the deputy mayor about you know her impression about the studies last year and just and just clarify that One of the perspectives I'm coming from is actually based on sidewalk committee stuff from when I was on that in 2024 where there was this conversation that was like well we we
 had this plan and it's not really implementable.
 Right now and you can only like save it for so long So it's one of like you fund it this year You fund it next year like by the year after that it might not be applicable anymore because it would age out so that's kind of where I'm coming from with this concept of like when are the plans going to age out and that's something like I can't necessarily answer that from like my seat and my expertise that's for planning and transportation and engineering because they're the ones that would kind of know timelines and I would assume that different types of plans different
 like age out in different on different timelines and and so that's where like like in terms of those plans and studies they are an integral piece of this of this conversation because I think like what I'm hearing up here at least is like we're not opposed to plans and studies as long as they actually end up
 Implemented and doing something and that there's this like kind of broad concern over the next few years Like how are we going to implement them with this? Sea one and and these new tax implications and like the the ever downward spiral that is projected right now for revenues And so that's the concern that I'm coming at from that and then to councilmember Rosenberger's Kind of comment like what exactly are we doing here? My understanding statutorily right now from our council attorney and term and please attorney
 or like correct me if I get this like.
 Flummoxed up is that in terms of like the process of how we as a council would say cut items and then request Additions would have to come as a council vote which would Like we would have to actually like forward that sort of recommendation on and so part of the purpose of this conversation was to figure out Whether there was general support for the concept of doing something like that so that then when there's a more specific
 proposal assisted by the controller with more specific guidance and that when we approach that that there'll be some measure of expected understanding and Agreement in terms of whatever ended up having to be cut so that then we could request that ad for the cola Did I get that right attorney liner? Yes, largely in fact, this is an issue that I'd like to talk about a little bit
 particularly while the controllers here in the meeting but the purpose of this meeting is to As Hopi its councilmember Stossberg indicated to discuss the budget and potential Reductions in it under Indiana law council may make reductions to items in the budget report or what is commonly called the budget book here
 the benefit of this evening is it gives the controller an idea of Potentially where those reductions might occur council prepares the budget ordinance with with the controller the Budget proposal that you just completed reviewing and receiving input on Ultimately gets rolled into that potential ordinance. So I'm
 Curious as to you we have a September 3rd council has a September 3rd meeting coming up as councilmember Stossberg Indicated council ultimately would need to vote in a public meeting on reductions To the but in the budget proposal by referring to a department an account line number a specific dollar amount
 I'm wondering if the controller is suggesting that maybe there would be some Proposal made for that meeting The next opportunity to to change this would be in the actual budget ordinance if there that on September 24th if that then would need to be modified it would occur via amendment in a
 Public meeting so those two processes are are different. I don't know if the controller is able to speak to that tonight As to what she might have in mind That's the president would you like me to respond Well, yeah, that would be great Okay, great. Um
 Like we did last year, I've been taking notes of everything that you've said in this and it has been really, really helpful. Our plan is to work on implementing that 2.7% COLA and make cuts based on your recommendations. I think that our plan
 I haven't actually discussed the actual plan with the deputy mayor yet, but we could just bring an ordinance to you. Well, this is what we did last year. We brought the ordinance to you for the public hearing and we described any of the changes that we made based on recommendations that we heard during budget hearings. We made changes to the budget, we described those changes in the public hearing, and then you still had a chance to respond to those changes or ask for other, like make cuts by
 by an actual vote at that time. There were no changes made last year. I think that the changes that we made and presented to you at the public hearing were accepted. That is my plan on how to proceed this year. However, if you want to have a meeting where you call up specific items and specific lines and take a vote,
 on the on specific changes, I would be completely okay with, you know, of course, with doing it that way as well. It's really up to you. Thank you for that input. Councilman Stossberg. I want to kind of yield that they feel like that's like kind of a process and legal question to our counsel attorney to sort out
 Over the next day or so. What is the best procedure for this based on? Legal precedent and state statute, etc, etc, and we should just keep in touch about that Okay, thank you councilmember Rosenberg I Yeah, I just think like the formality of what people are proposing was really confusing to me like I don't I
 I don't necessarily need to vote I mean I can email the administration and say I don't like this stuff in the budget and I'm not voting yes on it unless I want I just want that to be clear like and I can say like I've talked to some of my council members and like they're on board but like we're not this doesn't have to be some Agreed on five people have to vote on something for me to say right like I have some folks who don't like this and Like it's not up to me to figure that out necessarily, right? I just want that to like work
 We're not in this it's not that formal right now, right? Like you all were making me I'm sorry. My brain is very much mush right now But you all were making me feel like we were just farther along I think and that I kind of like missed the opportunity to like have some conversations obviously all with an open-door law, but like Yes, it's still any little group of council members can email the administration and be like we don't like this or we want to talk about this or right so I don't know I'm not
 I'm just saying we're not a place where we have to vote on changes tonight that we want to propose Anything tonight, right? Sorry. Yes, but we didn't have to be like this many of us want this like it's just it's not It's not ever necessary in this space. Yeah, we're allowed customer Piedmont Smith Yeah, I would agree with councilmember Rosenberger, but I think that having this discussion tonight is helpful and
 It's public it's with the administration it's getting some ideas on the table and Frankly, it's a step forward both last year and this year under this administration I think we're doing things better than we did beforehand. So You know having these kinds of discussions is good even if we're not, you know
 You didn't miss a deadline or anything council member Rosenberger or anybody else? There's still time to discuss and there's time to you know have one-on-one meetings or two-on-one meetings with the controller or whatever But I think this is a good I'm glad we're having this discussion is what I want to say. Thank you Well, I'll say I agree I feel like it's productive and helpful to be having this and having the administration here really appreciate the deputy mayor's input and
 Miss McClellan hanging around and you know helping us Councilmember Stossburg get into the comment. Yeah, I just want to say like in in terms of this this meeting last year we kind of had a similar meeting if you recall because And we were talking about the go bonds and we were talking about the different things that we wanted to go into the go bonds and how that was all gonna go but we were just able to schedule that meeting separately from the budget hearings and this year just due to everybody's schedule that
 That was the problem. So that's why it's like we're doing it now because there was no time that was Identified that could meet the needs of everybody who needed to be involved in that meeting So that's that's where like I'm sorry if I like misconstrued a sense of urgency It's just it's only a sense of urgency and that like we're like all here at the same time as opposed to necessitating that like one or two kind of
 meeting and Hopefully this means that there will be fewer of of those on everybody's plate as well. So thank you for reminding us of that Any other comments before we wind up Do we need to do you feel like take public go through public comment This do you have a
 Thought on that. Can we ask legal counsel what whether we need to take public comment at this point? The public comment wasn't added to the notice or schedule for this portion of the meeting So I would avoid taking the public comment at this point. Sorry. You said what was less you I would avoid taking public comment at this point it wasn't added to the the notice or schedule for this portion of the meeting and
 So not okay. Well with that Do we have to do a formal adjournment, I mean She want to Well, then we are adjourned