WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.040 - I'm going to start talking. 00:00:02.040 --> 00:00:04.320 - Yeah. Okay. What are we going to talk about? 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:07.720 - Our goal today is to map 00:00:07.720 --> 00:00:12.480 - the outcome areas that council outlined as priorities 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:17.000 - onto the outcome areas that the mayor has identified as priorities 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.760 - and come up with a compromised version that we all can agree on, 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:24.120 - or we think we can all agree on to bring to council for discussion 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:27.600 - on Wednesday so that our time there can be 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:34.080 - spent so that we're not starting from scratch when we get there in terms of what the buckets are. 00:00:34.080 --> 00:00:45.040 - And just to review for everyone, the council's areas were government transparency, 00:00:45.040 --> 00:00:49.680 - high-performing government, neighborhood livability and social health, public safety, 00:00:49.680 --> 00:00:54.240 - housing and homelessness, health and human services, equity and transportation and mobility. 00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:01.440 - The mayor had, so that's eight buckets, the mayor had four buckets, affordable housing and 00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:02.000 - homelessness, 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:10.800 - economic development, sorry I'm typing as I right here, economic development, core services 00:01:10.800 --> 00:01:17.760 - and I can't remember how we framed it, but essentially high-functioning, efficient government. 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:22.320 - And you could you could add some other adjectives onto that, transparent, all the things that we 00:01:22.320 --> 00:01:29.440 - want and so just to kind of give an overview of I think that as we create these buckets from what 00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:34.080 - I understand from Kelsey's conversations, the conversation about well what exactly is included, 00:01:34.080 --> 00:01:40.480 - where is their overlap, I know Jessica took some time to try to look at these eight categories and 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:46.080 - see how they might work with last year's budget and found it a little too difficult, too many 00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:53.520 - things that overlap or could be there. So I'll give my little statement on how I think we should 00:01:53.520 --> 00:01:58.080 - proceed and we can just have a conversation. So one thing is I understand from the council 00:01:58.080 --> 00:02:02.240 - conversation there's a lot of conversation around well this could be this or it could be that and I 00:02:02.240 --> 00:02:07.200 - think it's important to stay really focused on what it means to the public. So yes of course 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:13.120 - transportation issues are part of safety and is that part of public safety? Maybe, but I think when 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:17.440 - the public hears public safety they think they don't think transportation and so as we're thinking 00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:21.200 - about transparency it would be good to make sure our buckets are really common sense buckets and 00:02:21.200 --> 00:02:25.680 - very let's return each other as we can be knowing that there will be great areas when we put things 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:31.680 - into them. The other thing I would say is that from the mayor's standpoint a lot of things are 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:36.480 - packed into core services and we that's an area where I think we can break out some other 00:02:36.480 --> 00:02:37.040 - categories 00:02:37.040 --> 00:02:44.320 - but when we start getting up to you know multiple categories then we're essentially it looks like 00:02:44.320 --> 00:02:48.400 - our departmental budgets just with different titles. I think it's we have to be careful that 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:53.920 - we don't slice this so thinly that we just end up with our departmental budgets in disguise. 00:02:53.920 --> 00:02:58.480 - And then the last thing I'll say is that there are a lot of notes in the document that council sent 00:02:58.480 --> 00:02:58.720 - on 00:02:58.720 --> 00:03:06.160 - you know particular line items or ways to execute online items and none of that is what I think we 00:03:06.160 --> 00:03:10.320 - should discuss today because the function is the big buckets in the month and those are great 00:03:10.320 --> 00:03:10.720 - examples 00:03:10.720 --> 00:03:14.880 - to help us understand did we cover everything is there a place for everything but I don't 00:03:14.880 --> 00:03:20.960 - I don't think now is the time to debate whether or not our website should have a 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:31.920 - user function like how we do that. So I have thoughts on where I would put these but 00:03:31.920 --> 00:03:39.840 - can so what the one I think slightly different viewpoint that I have is that you know going back 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:47.920 - to our first conversations here is at the task force and thinking about meaningful steps we take 00:03:47.920 --> 00:03:57.280 - towards the I know I'm trying to fix the blur so y'all are gonna have to bear with my giant head 00:03:57.280 --> 00:04:06.160 - in the corner. You know we we settled on on on this year making a big push toward outcome areas 00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:11.280 - as to help us make meaningful steps towards solid outcome. 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:22.000 - And so my thinking about this all along was that there was always going to be overlap there's you 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:27.520 - know the how to distinguish between outcome areas I think is it's mostly a question of where is the 00:04:27.520 --> 00:04:35.840 - key like why do we what is the key reason why we do a thing and and so um so you know in the long 00:04:35.840 --> 00:04:40.480 - run we'd be talking about how do we know that this has been successful but it's helping us 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:47.920 - understand like we are doing this investment or not or reduction or whatever for a key purpose 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:53.440 - and so um I think having having some like core services doesn't really help us move towards that 00:04:53.440 --> 00:05:02.720 - right um so so that would be my my my distinction there is that we don't I yeah I don't I don't I 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:08.240 - don't know if it's too um even if there's overlap I don't think that it creates too many 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:08.880 - difficulties 00:05:08.880 --> 00:05:13.760 - just helping us really say like is this an investment about connectivity or is this an 00:05:13.760 --> 00:05:17.520 - investment about public safety and I think it changes the way that you evaluate them. 00:05:18.320 --> 00:05:21.760 - I think that's true and I think we're going to find that there is a lot more 00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:27.760 - baked into core services and some other areas that are on here so for example I noticed council 00:05:27.760 --> 00:05:31.920 - didn't have economic development as a bucket at all we try and that is a that is a bucket for 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:37.200 - the mayor 100 percent exactly she will um that I don't think that's enough I think that's not 00:05:37.200 --> 00:05:44.640 - eligible for her right um and I think there are things like when you think about um core services 00:05:44.640 --> 00:05:48.880 - like that when what we had bundled in there would have included public safety and other things that 00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:54.240 - we can easily break out but also sanitation yeah um other things that yeah exactly that's what I 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:58.560 - mean if you pull too many things out of the bucket then what you're left with is well now what's 00:05:58.560 --> 00:05:58.800 - left 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:05.360 - is such a hodgepodge that what is the what's the rationale for that so maybe we could start by just 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:14.300 - with a few I should say too we started so so the I mean to properly interpret um the letter right 00:06:14.300 --> 00:06:14.960 - um 00:06:14.960 --> 00:06:22.160 - we started with all of the areas that we had originally sent in our in our sort of first um 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:27.760 - in that first letter that we put together right um we started with all of those outcome areas 00:06:27.760 --> 00:06:35.360 - and then what ended up in the letter was some multiple stages of ranking amongst council members 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:42.080 - and so I've been I've been struggling myself to interpret this question of um 00:06:42.080 --> 00:06:47.520 - by the way is the audio working on the thing because it says join audio there 00:06:49.200 --> 00:06:58.560 - I don't know if um if it's yeah I don't know um but so so the um you know we started with all 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:02.400 - those I think you established a little pull it up here so I know what you mean yeah right yeah and 00:07:02.400 --> 00:07:08.160 - so so when we um I don't know how to interpret the fact that that economic development is on there 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:14.240 - beyond the fact that that nobody has any ideas pertaining to economic development 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:18.560 - I think that was the only one who said anything economic development related at least you were 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:24.560 - saying so so I don't so so I don't think I don't think you view the letter from council as these 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:29.520 - are the buckets we want I think you view it more as here are the ideas that are really resonating 00:07:29.520 --> 00:07:35.120 - with us at the moment right and and the things that there's support for but but I think we also 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:39.790 - have had a lot of conversation both in the budget committee and at the various meetings council 00:07:39.790 --> 00:07:39.920 - that 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.560 - it's like this is the beginning of negotiation they're not thinking about it despite the fact 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:49.120 - that there's things like 200k for whatever like just despite the fact that there's some with that 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:54.960 - high level specificity like nobody's thinking about this from the perspective of that last year you 00:07:54.960 --> 00:07:59.040 - see what I'm saying I do and I think an important distinction is are we thinking about outcomes or 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:03.360 - we're thinking about programs because the mayor didn't approach this as we didn't approach it as 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.040 - let's come up with a list of programs we think are interesting in that list of our buckets we 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.760 - approach it from what are the most important outcomes for the residents of Bloomington that 00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:17.440 - we need to achieve right and and so that's why our buckets are very limited because they were the 00:08:17.440 --> 00:08:23.120 - most important outcomes not a comprehensive list of you know every program much less every new idea 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:29.760 - and I think that'll be as we get into the actual budgeting process the question of how do we cover 00:08:29.760 --> 00:08:36.880 - with less money all the things that we currently currently believe are good all of the things that 00:08:36.880 --> 00:08:42.240 - the administration and that individual departments believe are important to do that are new and 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:42.480 - then 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:47.770 - when council has new ideas too like there's less money to do all of it right so yeah so but 00:08:47.770 --> 00:08:48.160 - remember 00:08:48.160 --> 00:08:54.480 - it's it's outcome areas right comes within those areas and then and then specific programs that 00:08:54.480 --> 00:09:00.800 - also should have outcomes attached to them we we agreed in talking at that three level at those 00:09:00.800 --> 00:09:07.500 - three levels that that we don't have the technology or the sort of institutional strength right now 00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:07.680 - to 00:09:07.680 --> 00:09:14.160 - do outcomes of the at the program level yes moving towards that but so so to your point 00:09:14.160 --> 00:09:20.400 - I think that it's you know it's it's I don't think it's I don't think it's it's particularly 00:09:20.400 --> 00:09:25.040 - helpful for us to say you know let's just have one big bucket where we throw everything that 00:09:25.040 --> 00:09:30.800 - doesn't fit within within the larger ones I think that we say no let's let's let's come up because 00:09:30.800 --> 00:09:34.880 - because the the conversation that we still haven't had is but I think what you what what 00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:41.840 - you're getting closer to is saying here are here are the three things I'll take or services away 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:45.840 - because that like we've talked about from the beginning here like it doesn't like it doesn't 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:49.680 - help us to say oh there's a bucket of things just these are just things we have to do right we need 00:09:49.680 --> 00:09:53.920 - to be even clear about what it is we're trying to achieve with the things we're trying to that we 00:09:53.920 --> 00:10:00.880 - just have to do but you said here essentially are three top things right this is these are our 00:10:00.880 --> 00:10:07.200 - priorities is how is how I read the letter that you sent rather than rather not saying 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:13.600 - transportation is not in our budget it's saying in so far as transportation goes we're thinking 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:20.400 - about it from the lens of of continuing essential services for you know something like that right 00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:27.360 - and so so that that's that's more I think the the space that we're saying you know where what are 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:32.560 - our areas what are the what are the priorities within those areas and how do these different 00:10:32.560 --> 00:10:37.360 - areas relate in terms of priorities to each other so if we rank these priorities where are they 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:46.240 - so maybe we could start with some easy overlaps we had affordable housing and homelessness you 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:51.040 - guys had housing with homelessness so whether we call it affordable housing housing homelessness I 00:10:51.040 --> 00:10:56.480 - think we need all kinds of housing you know affordable housing is if we were to develop 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:01.440 - lots of housing and none of it was affordable there's a whole philosophical argument there 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:08.720 - create more housing when this anyway I'm not going to go into that but so that's one so we've got 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:08.960 - one 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:19.440 - down regram I would say whatever we call the there does need to be a category where we put 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:32.480 - everything related to the lack of a better phrase overhead accounting HR IT legal clerk there's a 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:38.560 - category of services that are although you have in the clerk's office that has direct services to 00:11:38.560 --> 00:11:42.640 - the people and you could make the argument that everything the controller does is of course 00:11:42.640 --> 00:11:43.120 - obviously 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:48.720 - for the people but things like processing payroll and ensuring that people get their benefits on 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:49.040 - time 00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:55.040 - for the way that the city government operates are they have to live somewhere yeah and I would say 00:11:55.040 --> 00:12:01.120 - that trans so whether we call that high performing government can we assume that a high performing 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:06.640 - government is transparent that transparency is part of the high performing government yeah whether 00:12:06.640 --> 00:12:10.880 - so yeah so two questions there I think I think high performing I'm speaking for myself obviously 00:12:10.880 --> 00:12:15.440 - not for the entire and we should know whatever we bring this is this committee and we're just 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:22.960 - trying to help it's just a way to facilitate I think I think you just identified a nice way of 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:27.920 - having the discussion which is um which is trying to figure out whether some of the things that we 00:12:27.920 --> 00:12:32.160 - might have identified as so remember three levels so I'll call them one two and three just to make 00:12:32.160 --> 00:12:38.320 - conversation easier here um whether things that we identified as one level are actually two levels 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:46.080 - right um and that I think that that that is potentially reasonable um I think the um the 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:51.360 - idea of saying high performing government sort of fits lots of things can fit in within a high 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:56.080 - performing government um and I think that's better than something like continuing service 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.920 - because it does push us to say okay like what is it that we want out of out of it or out of 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:07.420 - right I mean it's not you know the you know or HR that matter and you know and I would say for 00:13:07.420 --> 00:13:07.840 - those 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:13.520 - of us who actually work in the city the amount of work that needs to be done to make our government 00:13:13.520 --> 00:13:21.440 - high performing is a lot a lot and it is part of what would I think be very visible improvements 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:25.440 - to the public as well well right so I don't by calling I don't mean by calling it overhead to be 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:29.650 - like oh blah blah blah let's not talk about that I mean there's some really critical work that 00:13:29.650 --> 00:13:30.000 - needs 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:36.480 - to be done there I would also put equity under that I know that there are a couple council members 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:36.640 - who 00:13:36.640 --> 00:13:43.920 - have particular been lobbying for several years to make a whole department or to a a c-level 00:13:43.920 --> 00:13:50.480 - position for equity and I see that those line items are back in this proposal I don't think that 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:58.720 - I mean help think through this with me like why is it a why is it a problem for us to have 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:07.280 - um for sake of argument 20 areas of of areas of um that's a good question 00:14:07.280 --> 00:14:16.800 - well I think the more areas we make the more choices we have to make about does this go here 00:14:16.800 --> 00:14:24.640 - or here I think I but so so counter to that is sure it might be administratively more difficult 00:14:24.640 --> 00:14:29.200 - for us to figure out where things go which I think is a fruitful conversation regardless 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:32.880 - I don't mean it as an administrative difficulty although it is an administrative difficulty I mean 00:14:32.880 --> 00:14:38.560 - that it creates it's kind of like uh creates more if you're a resident and you want to find 00:14:38.560 --> 00:14:39.040 - something 00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:43.280 - and you have to check more categories and you're like well I don't know if it's here or here 00:14:43.280 --> 00:14:48.640 - I don't think I don't think it creates the transparency where after is my point I think 00:14:48.640 --> 00:14:55.120 - it works how into that but go ahead but but so so the the reason I the reason I said this is 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:55.520 - because 00:14:55.520 --> 00:15:06.480 - two two things one is that there are as we've talked about lots of elements in our budget 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:14.320 - that are ascending for lack of better telling hidden currently staff time programs that don't 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:22.080 - actually have a cost outside of the fact that we do them right similarly there are things and 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:29.840 - equity being a good example that I think it is important for us to to have to discuss directly 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:37.760 - and not just assume that it appears somewhere and so that we're purposeful with the way that 00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:46.880 - we're planning around investing in where relevant and etc around something like equity so the the 00:15:46.880 --> 00:15:53.920 - but it may be as for example in the list that council gave a lot of the things around like 00:15:53.920 --> 00:16:06.240 - transparency around equity not necessarily that be like big budgetary investments as opposed to 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:12.880 - them being areas where where where there are clear discernible outcomes to our activities and so 00:16:12.880 --> 00:16:22.720 - I think that there's a lot of benefit to having a to having actually a longer than shorter list 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:27.600 - because because otherwise I think I think it's actually I think actually we'll see the opposite 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:33.760 - to what to what you to what you said I think that that you get closer to the just departmental but 00:16:33.760 --> 00:16:38.400 - just like oh yeah and then there's then there's you know a million dollars here that's just in 00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:42.240 - that department's account and that's under high performing government and so you know it doesn't 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:47.760 - lead us to the conversation that we actually want to have around I mean I think if we keep in mind 00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:52.880 - that we're not just creating these buckets that we're also talking about having a very different 00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:58.240 - kind of line item approach where the programs are actually listed so let's let's talk about where 00:16:58.240 --> 00:16:58.400 - we 00:16:58.400 --> 00:17:03.840 - are now to where we're going so where we are now you see category one two three four you see it by 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:10.480 - department total you see by fund total and if the department in the presentation singles out some 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:18.080 - programs and is ready to say here are of the 45 programs my my department ministers here are three 00:17:18.080 --> 00:17:23.280 - that I think are important that we have time to discuss in this budget session that I'm going to 00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:30.480 - single out and talk about there's no way currently to see what are the other 42 programs you find 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:30.960 - it 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:35.600 - yeah necessarily because you have a program the expenses would be across three different 00:17:35.600 --> 00:17:41.840 - three or four different categories sure so when we make the switch we're not just saying here's 00:17:41.840 --> 00:17:45.280 - the buckets and now we're going to do category one two three four under the buckets we're saying 00:17:45.280 --> 00:17:51.520 - here are the buckets and then let's line out the actual programs under those buckets and I think 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:57.760 - one of the things that may be surprising to folks is how many of those programs there are and so 00:17:57.760 --> 00:17:57.920 - the 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:04.800 - desire to review program by program by program is a bigger task than it may appear and also an 00:18:04.800 --> 00:18:10.880 - education task and if our website were revised today that would be a lot easier for everyone to 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:19.280 - see and setting up on in advance but it's not so so so I guess what I'm saying is the choice 00:18:19.280 --> 00:18:19.680 - between 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:28.560 - you know two buckets and 20 buckets depends to some degree what's the line how clear is that 00:18:28.560 --> 00:18:36.400 - line detail and and we make clusters of programs in there and and that just depends on how much you 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:40.400 - want to break things out so let's say let's say public safety is its own category yeah when we 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:47.280 - say that and then we run through programs on there and that would include obviously police and fire 00:18:47.280 --> 00:18:51.920 - but it would also include some programming programming costs from cfrd yeah and maybe 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:59.040 - some other places as well those are free to come on top of them yeah um you know what do you call 00:18:59.040 --> 00:19:08.640 - the general police program like police have some positions that are meant to achieve they're not 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:14.720 - they're not programs per se in a way that other departments might have programs that businesses 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:21.680 - are no problem with supply too and so but i think that the slicing is gets trickier as we go so 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:26.800 - that's important now this this is what but this is where the second level is so important because 00:19:26.800 --> 00:19:33.200 - how we define how we define the goals within buckets helps delineate what buckets you need 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:40.560 - yes so let's go can we go back and just talk a little bit about the actual priorities that you 00:19:40.560 --> 00:19:46.560 - guys said versus the level one level one areas of priorities because because because to be clear 00:19:46.560 --> 00:19:51.840 - high functioning government is not a priority it doesn't it's a it's a bucket in which to make 00:19:51.840 --> 00:20:00.480 - priorities and if we confuse those we'll get into trouble and i think speaking as my own self as a 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:05.520 - human commenter that is the mistake that we have been making continually at council is that we're 00:20:05.520 --> 00:20:12.800 - getting confused between outcome areas outcomes programs like we're interchanging them too much 00:20:12.800 --> 00:20:17.920 - and and so so i do think high performing government is an outcome that we need 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:23.360 - no no i agree but that is that itself is that doesn't mean anything high performing government 00:20:23.360 --> 00:20:29.360 - means nothing by itself we have to define what that means okay you see what i'm saying i do um 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:37.200 - so so so so so just be super clear even so so what i what i'm what i also have clarity for myself 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:44.480 - about is that even for us to agree on the outcome areas on wednesday that's fine but what we really 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:51.520 - should be doing is starting to agree on on the on that second level set of things and that answers 00:20:51.520 --> 00:20:55.360 - are all about the question that we that we spent 20 minutes trying to wrestle with here it's that 00:20:55.360 --> 00:21:01.470 - you say if we say high performing government means a government that is transparent okay fine but 00:21:01.470 --> 00:21:01.600 - even 00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:08.400 - then further that we're able to respond to foyer requests within 24 hours okay so so here's here's 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:12.880 - where i think it gets challenging to talk about the second level stuff here is that those that 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:16.720 - second level stuff of the line items or what are we doing that is the switch that the budget 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:17.120 - process 00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:27.120 - is making so i don't think that anyone has a clear enough window on what those items are to be able 00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:31.860 - to say you know what you should do is xyz because you don't know what we already are doing or 00:21:31.860 --> 00:21:32.160 - already 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:37.360 - planning to do necessarily program i don't know necessarily each and every program of every 00:21:37.360 --> 00:21:44.080 - department um by name so but but that's that's where i mean so so i'll use the foyer request 00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:49.680 - as an example because i think it's a it's a particularly good one that um that if a thing 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:56.880 - we want to see happen and again is we want to be able to respond to foyer requests in x amount of 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.720 - time now where we put that on your priority list okay not the question right now but it's like 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:05.280 - you want to be able to respond to foyer request let's just say within 24 hours that's something 00:22:05.280 --> 00:22:09.760 - we all agree that would be a good thing yes no okay we all agree this is a relatively good thing 00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:16.960 - what would it cost or make what would we have to do to be able to do that starts to open the 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:22.080 - question to well are we already are we already doing that is nothing needs to be done is is this 00:22:22.080 --> 00:22:27.600 - just a matter of well in the next six months or the next year because of things we've already done 00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:33.680 - that's going to happen already you know what and that's a super small thing but it is a thing that 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:40.000 - that that we might care about no and it's a great example because it touches on so many other 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:40.400 - things 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:46.160 - besides the requests any amount of time it takes and the person who answers it exactly where does 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:53.750 - the data lid how easy is it to get to how clean is it exactly and so so then but but but so so 00:22:53.750 --> 00:22:54.240 - having 00:22:54.240 --> 00:23:01.040 - set you know a and then so so that that's why the the critical work is saying is being able to get 00:23:01.040 --> 00:23:01.600 - to 00:23:01.600 --> 00:23:07.440 - two statements like and again we're not going to be perfect on this this is like you know we don't 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:11.760 - have the technology yet we don't have we've done this the first time i get it like so many caveats 00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:17.840 - here but if we can get to a statement like you know responding to FOIA requests within 24 hours 00:23:17.840 --> 00:23:21.360 - now where we want to put that is that high performing government is that transparency 00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:28.880 - and at that level it no longer matters what what area that's under right so can we go back to 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.600 - the big buckets yeah and do a little because we have you have to be somewhere at 10 30 we have 00:23:33.600 --> 00:23:38.960 - 10 30 so let's we talk a little bit more because our goal remember is to go to council on the 14th 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:46.080 - with a list and say here's one way here's a possibility to discuss that lives somewhere 00:23:46.080 --> 00:23:54.160 - between the administration and council's list so housing and homeless so you have eight items 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.960 - housing homelessness check government transparency and high performing government i would argue 00:23:58.960 --> 00:23:59.040 - that 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:06.240 - one and we already have that on our list so check there are a couple here that i think 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.750 - transportation and mobility is a good one to pull out because there is so much interest in those 00:24:10.750 --> 00:24:11.040 - and 00:24:11.040 --> 00:24:17.120 - confusion about what what those projects are they get a lot of scrutiny there are a lot of 00:24:17.120 --> 00:24:24.800 - projects that go into that also lots of capital projects so that leads to interesting funding 00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:29.920 - conversations because they are capital projects so i think pulling that we would agree to pull that 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:39.040 - out economic development is one that we pulled out that you didn't that the mayor will not want to 00:24:39.040 --> 00:24:45.120 - talk about anything we did pull it out it's just that what's reflected in the letter is is nobody 00:24:45.120 --> 00:24:51.600 - has any ideas on this right right right so so there will be no pushback to having economic 00:24:51.600 --> 00:24:58.800 - development as an area it's interesting that it got perceived as an exercise and let's come up 00:24:58.800 --> 00:25:02.880 - with new ideas because that's not really the function we're after i'm not sure if i'm not 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:08.560 - sure if any of these were new ideas i think they were ideas that were like you know how do you 00:25:08.560 --> 00:25:17.200 - operationalize broader themes that are already in other represented plans right and that was the 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:21.280 - list at the beginning of the letter you know just like here's some you know here are places to pull 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:26.800 - from right i mean like and yeah like it's not i don't think there was a thing mentioned that's 00:25:26.800 --> 00:25:32.160 - like you know oh my gosh no one's ever thought of this or talked about this before 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.880 - so let's go back to so that leaves 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:44.880 - that brings us to five still leaving core services to unpack and talk about that on our list 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:45.040 - because 00:25:45.040 --> 00:25:49.280 - we have fewer and then that leaves four items on on your list to talk about 00:25:49.280 --> 00:25:59.040 - so public safety i think if you want to pull that out that's a pretty classic one to pull out 00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:04.800 - you could do that i think there are some interesting questions that will come up and some of this 00:26:04.800 --> 00:26:04.880 - we 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:12.000 - just need to define or explain as we put the numbers together what we put where so the example 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:21.600 - i will use is parks has a whole bunch of expenses related to picking up needles responding to 00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:32.000 - encampments those are not they are impacts of homelessness but they are not those expenses do 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:36.880 - not address the root cause of homelessness so we were addressing they're addressing public safety 00:26:37.600 --> 00:26:42.160 - so we would put those costs under public safety but it needs but if someone were to say 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:47.440 - what is all of the money that the city is spending on homelessness that's a bigger pool than 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:51.600 - solving the problem homelessness homelessness and impacts of homelessness which is a much bigger 00:26:51.600 --> 00:27:03.040 - number true so um so let's let's add public safety and even though we're not thinking of 00:27:03.040 --> 00:27:08.880 - departments i do think it helps as we go through to think about um each department where would it 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.040 - live generally or are there areas just to make sure that i don't know i think it's a core um i 00:27:15.040 --> 00:27:19.280 - think it's the core justification for moving to outcome-based budgeting is exactly that is 00:27:19.280 --> 00:27:25.040 - that you want you want people to say to say okay we're doing this thing that is that is for public 00:27:25.040 --> 00:27:30.240 - safety and now you have this conversation of like hey why isn't so and so helping with or is is 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:30.720 - this 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:35.760 - is this appropriate to be siloed here how are you contributing to the overall but right like 00:27:35.760 --> 00:27:41.440 - those are the very useful conversations to have it is okay that parks is doing a public safety 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:41.920 - thing 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:50.880 - oh no totally i just mean we don't want to have a situation where um uh let's say uh 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:58.400 - where we don't know where the bulk of one department's expenses go now maybe that's 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:04.880 - a valuable conversation to have and it certainly could be but um it would tell us if if that's the 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:12.560 - case if we cannot if i mean we have to it's i don't i don't want to say this in in fear of 00:28:12.560 --> 00:28:20.160 - being taken out of context but but i think it's necessary to be said we can't operate with the 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:25.600 - assumption that every single human every single program every single dollar that we spend currently 00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:33.040 - is you know the right way to spend sure to organize and and and so we should not build 00:28:33.040 --> 00:28:39.280 - our outcomes areas our goals to the way that we currently operate if we're to be in a situation 00:28:39.280 --> 00:28:43.120 - we're like we don't know where to put this part of this this whole department's budget like maybe 00:28:43.120 --> 00:28:48.960 - we have a problem with that department right for sure for sure but i guess a better example 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:55.520 - might be sanitation once sanitation in mind is like sanitation is a essential service that everyone 00:28:55.520 --> 00:28:59.680 - expects it's not a public safety service it's not affordable housing it's not economic development 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:05.040 - it's not transportation mobility i mean you could make the case maybe that it was high performing 00:29:05.040 --> 00:29:10.480 - government but i don't think if i'm a resident and i'm thinking where's how do i know how much 00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:17.200 - clean water and getting my trash picked up where that lives you wouldn't necessarily assume high 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:22.000 - performing government yeah agreed we we did have a couple of headers that didn't again didn't make 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:27.120 - it into the way that just the way that this one of this one we went about this and so it was a 00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:32.000 - flawed process for many reasons but again we're trying our best so like yeah and that's great 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:36.400 - but neighborhood and community vitality as an example of something something okay we could 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:41.200 - talk about safe community is something you could talk about and that might be where sanitation goes 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:45.920 - in like you don't want everybody getting the plague like feels like uh it's like a wonderful 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:51.440 - outcome you know what i'm saying so let's look at so you have three categories left um i i don't 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:51.840 - think 00:29:51.840 --> 00:29:56.400 - um we're not going to want to break out equity because it's our own category for a whole host 00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:01.760 - of reasons be happy to have a conversation about it but um for right now we would and are thinking 00:30:01.760 --> 00:30:07.520 - that is part of like performing government and there are costs and programs associated with that 00:30:07.520 --> 00:30:12.960 - that we are doing that we've been pulling out there um so that leaves you've got two left here 00:30:13.760 --> 00:30:17.760 - and we still have core services to figure out what to do i think the gap we're trying to bridge is 00:30:17.760 --> 00:30:25.920 - between um unpack that into something that makes sense um neighborhood livability and social health 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:31.600 - health and human services to me those are both kind of mushy um but i do think sanitation falls 00:30:31.600 --> 00:30:37.600 - in health and human services yeah it's when i go back to the flag comment that's an essential part 00:30:37.600 --> 00:30:42.240 - of us providing it but i think work community is important because there's a lot of work you could 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:48.240 - say we could say the parks are you could say that black history month is community agree say there's 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:53.360 - all kinds of things that that we want to do arts investments one percent for the arts is the 00:30:53.360 --> 00:30:53.760 - economic 00:30:53.760 --> 00:31:00.320 - development yes you could also say that it's part of developing um what is it primarily and right 00:31:00.320 --> 00:31:05.360 - like like how are you well because because because this is this is the this is the um the pit the 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:11.200 - pitfall the the you know the danger spot here is that if if all things are all things then they're 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.920 - nothing and that's how we talk about a lot of things oh yeah this thing that we do is about this 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:19.440 - and it's about this and it's about this and it's like well what is that like what's the core reason 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:24.000 - that we do this does not exist what is the effect on the community what are we keeping in the 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:24.400 - budget 00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:29.920 - and and you know and i think i think that i mean okay if we're starting to have conversations with 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:34.400 - departments that are like we're going to see a 20 reduction and so we all need to think about where 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:40.080 - you can cut again we're falling back into the problem which you know it's it's like it's the 00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:43.840 - question is what is it that we're doing to move forward what is it that we're doing to achieve 00:31:43.840 --> 00:31:54.560 - our goals so the way i would frame that category that might bridge the gap between neighborhood 00:31:54.560 --> 00:31:58.880 - livability and social health and health and human services is community health and vitality yeah 00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:04.000 - that works well i think what we had written the first time reflecting on fort collins was 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:09.920 - neighborhood community vitality is how fort collins has it um and i just would cut neighborhood out 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:15.600 - because sometimes there is the heart for saying they are part of the community and and sometimes 00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:18.640 - the things that we're talking about for the community don't happen in neighborhoods they 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:27.600 - happen across the community as well so okay so that we take out core services which i understand 00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:33.520 - you hate the mayor loves it but i think yeah but i think what she what she likes about it is when 00:32:33.520 --> 00:32:38.880 - when we're strapped for money and when people think about when we think about what are residents 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:43.680 - most value and most complain about to us and things they would like to be improved it is 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:48.560 - for services they expect as taxpayers right but let's we don't we don't often get requests for 00:32:48.560 --> 00:32:54.960 - you know random pool fund well right things that people want it's why is it why doesn't this happen 00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:00.720 - about 100 but do you remember where we start like when we first met the the four of us first met 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:05.600 - i actually was confused it's sitting wasn't there that first conversation either um that this that's 00:33:05.600 --> 00:33:10.080 - what we spent most of our conversation about it's like how do you who what do you do in an outcome 00:33:10.080 --> 00:33:15.200 - based budget around things that that you know we what do we what do we we had a whole discussion 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:20.560 - about even what to call it um do you remember because because i because i kept talking about 00:33:20.560 --> 00:33:23.600 - oh well what we're really talking about is the discretionary funds we're like no no it's not 00:33:23.600 --> 00:33:28.880 - about discrete nothing's discretionary person right like and and what's not core i think was was 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:29.120 - part 00:33:29.120 --> 00:33:35.200 - of the conversation we came to and this was a huge realization for this group for me is to is to 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:35.440 - say 00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:41.840 - that that we need to be more specific around around core services how somebody would say and 00:33:41.840 --> 00:33:46.790 - i still today almost on a daily basis have people coming up to me saying that that we need to 00:33:46.790 --> 00:33:47.200 - collect 00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:55.120 - leaves that that's a core service please just not yeah and so yeah but so that's that's right but 00:33:55.120 --> 00:34:00.960 - so so that's that's where it's free still yeah but that's that's where you know just if we just 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:01.120 - have 00:34:01.120 --> 00:34:04.880 - a big bucket that's called club services it doesn't help with that with what what it is that you're 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.960 - saying that we're trying to achieve so right so we all we're all on the same page of the sense that 00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:16.080 - there are certain things that that are baseline um for um you know which is which is where you know 00:34:16.080 --> 00:34:20.480 - maybe you know hopefully next year we get into these conversations about different offer types 00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.400 - and all that type of stuff right but there's certain things that just need to be maintained 00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:31.200 - but we should still get to what it what the goal is there because if we say core services then it 00:34:31.200 --> 00:34:35.200 - would sound like our outcome would be something like maintain core services well we still haven't 00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:40.320 - defined what core services are right so you see so so so we need to help ourselves in defining that 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:49.360 - so so here's where um um sorry let me save this file 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:59.120 - um so here's where this conversation has landed portable housing and homelessness 00:34:59.120 --> 00:35:06.160 - public safety community health and vitality economic development transportation and mobility 00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:13.120 - and high-performance government i think those are good buckets and i think that the conversation 00:35:13.120 --> 00:35:20.240 - about what we mean by those and what goes in them is important and i think will get easier you know 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:23.760 - when this kind of thing you you set up your outline and then when you actually go to do the work of 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:29.200 - different departments having their programs and um trying to put them into line item form that's 00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:33.760 - when you start to really understand oh okay this one yeah and you know so we're not going to be 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:38.240 - able to perfectly define a system here right because we don't yet have the list of everything 00:35:38.240 --> 00:35:42.800 - goes into it so sure yeah and and again like like we've said i think it's good for us all 00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:47.200 - to remind ourselves and and to remind council again on wednesday that this isn't a derivative 00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:52.080 - process i think that um you know we might realize that we actually have some priorities that we 00:35:52.080 --> 00:35:56.240 - haven't quite been able to put in you know like we're not particularly yeah exactly like well it's 00:35:56.240 --> 00:36:02.330 - so oh yeah of course i'm thinking about um about environment i don't know where you know 00:36:02.330 --> 00:36:03.600 - sustainability 00:36:03.600 --> 00:36:08.480 - and those i just in my little notes here to myself put that under community health and vitality 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:13.600 - right um you know it it lives in economic development as a department and you can make 00:36:13.600 --> 00:36:19.360 - the case for why it's economic development to provide free air conditioners to folks who 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:25.360 - need them right um for five reasons and because then they stay cool and healthier and you know 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:30.080 - presumably it has but um but i think what we're really talking about there is community health 00:36:30.080 --> 00:36:33.760 - yeah but then recycling um is recycling 00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:40.480 - yeah well i mean that's a that's a goal that clearly no one's going to say that 00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:45.360 - we shouldn't recycle and we don't just we don't just do it for sustainability reasons it's not 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:51.120 - quite economic development i mean i i think it's still community health and vitality that's where 00:36:51.120 --> 00:36:57.760 - you're putting sanitation yeah you know that's um to separate out one piece of you know part of why 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:03.120 - we want people to recycle is because it takes things out of the landfill and makes trash 00:37:03.120 --> 00:37:14.000 - more sustainable yeah yeah good but um so that's six up from r4 and down from your original seven 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:18.400 - or eight or probably many of them yeah but i mean and putting putting clearly a handful of them 00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:25.200 - together and i think that's fine would you run through those six again yes affordable housing 00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:34.880 - and homelessness public safety community health and vitality economic development 00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:51.840 - transportation and mobility and high-performing government thank you um so then in terms of how 00:37:51.840 --> 00:38:00.080 - we spend the spend of the time um i'm assuming is this is is wednesday account like where we're 00:38:00.080 --> 00:38:06.400 - meeting in city council where are we meeting we're meeting in council chambers however 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:16.560 - binary stranger enthusiasm i'm communicating with cats and um are we going to sit in a round table 00:38:16.560 --> 00:38:21.920 - or something they're going to configure desk in a rectangular shape okay so we're not going to be 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:28.480 - sitting up on the dais yeah okay good um so i i think one another thing that would be really 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:35.440 - helpful i mean it'd be um fruitful for the conversation is to start to get start to again 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:41.120 - start to get some agreement around or at least some initial discussions around you know if we're 00:38:41.120 --> 00:38:49.360 - happy with these buckets what what are what are again not programs don't don't say what 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:54.400 - two hundred thousand dollars for council spending like what's the what are the things that we want 00:38:54.400 --> 00:39:05.280 - to see that second tier is really the place that we have not spent hardly any time talking about. 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:11.520 - Well, I think from my perspective, we hear about it all the time, which is start 12 new programs in 00:39:11.520 --> 00:39:19.440 - these areas relating to my special interests. That's the wrong level of thinking. 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:24.480 - Because we want to achieve what? Exactly. It's the what do we want to achieve part of the 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:31.280 - conversation, that outcome part of the conversation under the outcome areas that we are not having. 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:36.400 - Right. But I feel, I guess here's where I come from that I feel like there's an education process 00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:41.280 - in this on what we're currently doing and that piece is missing. We haven't done that piece yet. 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:46.960 - And so when we start with what else would we like to do that's new and different without knowing 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:49.760 - what we're actually doing. Forget about the new and different. I worry about that. Forget about the 00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:49.920 - new 00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:55.600 - and different. It's the it's the it's just it's just start starting from the perspective of 00:39:55.600 --> 00:40:04.320 - of okay but I'll pick on something to illustrate this. Why do we do a black and brown market? 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:12.400 - You do it. So why do we do it? Right. Well okay so so like and you know 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:19.920 - you'd say right basically exactly we shouldn't be doing black and brown but but but but but the 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:25.120 - point is that we've been doing it for a very long time right and and we would say oh well it's this 00:40:25.120 --> 00:40:31.200 - it's a little bit of this of some reason here this year what is the goal of doing that is that 00:40:31.200 --> 00:40:36.320 - something that gets kept in the budget is that moving is that moving the needle toward the goals 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:41.440 - that we are setting and I think you inherently want we all know it's a good thing and we want to 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:47.840 - do it and we're just asking us to articulate the but do do we I mean and just I mean again pick on 00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:52.880 - it I mean not not I'm just like is is it a good thing to do well I have my reasons for saying it 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:57.760 - is but but it's just like I don't think we've had that conversation and that's not a that's not a 00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:05.190 - you know uh uh education for council thing I think that everybody has not had that conversation 00:41:05.190 --> 00:41:05.440 - well 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:11.680 - and so there's a conversation related to that that probably only people in administration know 00:41:11.680 --> 00:41:11.840 - which 00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:17.760 - is CFRD parks and ESD getting together and looking at the list of all of the events they put on and 00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.680 - seeing where is their duplication where is their overlap what should say where should go that 00:41:21.680 --> 00:41:26.880 - conversation is happening now before the budget season even starts which will feed into that 00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:30.960 - conversation but so I guess but how are they even making that decision if we haven't if we're not 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:39.160 - setting if we're not and if we if we have a again I'm not I'm not you know do I trust that 00:41:39.160 --> 00:41:39.440 - everybody 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:45.680 - can make this that they have some internal reason for doing it yes but if we have a moving scale 00:41:45.680 --> 00:41:50.320 - for now again like I'll be self-referential about about the way that we are on council 00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:55.910 - if we have this moving scale of how how the things that we want to achieve you know today it's 00:41:55.910 --> 00:41:56.640 - about 00:41:56.640 --> 00:42:02.000 - equity tomorrow it's about you know whatever connectivity the next day it's about our 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:05.520 - institute concerns whatever we're just constantly moving it might be the same program but we 00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:09.760 - constantly move what we even mean somebody's trying to enter from the waiting room we're 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:17.040 - constantly moving how we're evaluating ourselves then we're not one we don't we're not good 00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:17.440 - partners 00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:22.080 - but two is that we like we're we don't hold ourselves accountable to decisions that are 00:42:22.080 --> 00:42:28.560 - being made and so so the big push here is to get us to a place where you start with what it is 00:42:28.560 --> 00:42:32.480 - you're trying to achieve not what it is that we're already doing and then we append some things 00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:32.640 - that 00:42:32.640 --> 00:42:37.040 - we want to achieve right two things i'm already doing i think i assume the way this system is 00:42:37.040 --> 00:42:43.200 - going to work is that our buckets have inherent big goals of what we want to achieve so in public 00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:51.400 - safety just in general that bucket wants to achieve the things reduction in crime a you know 00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:52.480 - perceived 00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:58.640 - safety so then the exactly unique all the unique specific programs that go into that bucket we can 00:42:58.640 --> 00:43:04.480 - assume that they that we can we can like use our system to make those big assumptions we don't have 00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:10.480 - to identify we don't have to discuss every single program um individually we want to because we 00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:15.120 - assume that if it's in neighborhood health and vitality it's trying to achieve all these big 00:43:15.120 --> 00:43:22.640 - social goals we have and we can continue our work with using that bucket as the big assumption big 00:43:22.640 --> 00:43:28.480 - assumptions that these are the big picture goals outcomes that we want to achieve so here's my 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:32.640 - nightmare i'll try to make our work easier put this out on the table so this is the the place 00:43:32.640 --> 00:43:37.830 - of fear that i'm operating from is that this turns into here's the christmas list of everything i 00:43:37.830 --> 00:43:38.080 - want 00:43:38.080 --> 00:43:46.640 - the city to be doing and that those those wish lists don't match up with either the funding that 00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:51.520 - we have available or the work that people are already doing for staff capacity and maybe this 00:43:51.520 --> 00:43:56.800 - just all goes in Kara's budget statement about you know when we have less money people are already 00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:05.520 - spread pretty thin and we'll have to work harder and so um that's my anxiety factor is that we will 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:10.640 - my experience is that organizations are really good at having things to the list but that 00:44:10.640 --> 00:44:15.200 - actually drawing the line and saying we're not going to do this anymore this is not a priority 00:44:15.200 --> 00:44:18.800 - but that is the piece that everybody says we're going to do and then when it comes right down to 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:23.200 - it we never want to kill our darlings no but the thing that yeah i agree i mean steven king but the 00:44:23.200 --> 00:44:32.400 - but the um the the um the question is not whether whether it may still be a priority but it might 00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:32.880 - be 00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:37.520 - that this isn't moving the needle towards towards the outcomes that we say we're trying to achieve 00:44:37.520 --> 00:44:46.560 - we you know if if um we can use a clear example from last year we say um if we um raise police 00:44:46.560 --> 00:44:54.320 - salaries that's going to lead to um to more police officers um being you know signing and you know 00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:59.200 - coming with recruitment of police officers more police officers leads to lower crime okay so 00:44:59.200 --> 00:45:06.240 - that's we have a clear theory here right do this this happens okay so so so this year if crime had 00:45:06.240 --> 00:45:10.720 - gone up it has not but if crime had gone up and we didn't have more police officers the 00:45:10.720 --> 00:45:11.200 - conversation 00:45:11.200 --> 00:45:16.240 - that we'd be having is okay well wait a minute we did this and this and and we're still seeing the 00:45:16.240 --> 00:45:20.400 - exact same problem this is not the case here we actually there's a good example last year of a 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:24.160 - conversation we had i think hopi led that part of the conversation she's like but wait like at what 00:45:24.160 --> 00:45:29.040 - point do we do we say that this wasn't working or that this didn't achieve the things that we want 00:45:29.040 --> 00:45:34.320 - so that's the way that we should be thinking about about all of this not not the assumption that it's 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:38.960 - like okay well it's in you know if we throw it in that bucket then in generally trying to achieve 00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:43.680 - you know something some big goal that we have under that but it's actually specifically tied 00:45:43.680 --> 00:45:50.880 - this this investment this thing ties that now the concern about uh you know unlimited wish list it's 00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:55.120 - like it's fine everybody can have an unlimited wish list because there's not unlimited resources 00:45:55.120 --> 00:45:59.600 - so it's like at the end of the day the way that you distinguish between wish lists is by how do 00:45:59.600 --> 00:46:03.920 - they attach to these outcomes what's the most effective thing in achieving the outcome and the 00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:09.280 - reason you want people to have a wish list especially the elected people is that we we all 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:15.360 - were elected by the city like you know i like i was voted on by everybody in the city right and so 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:21.280 - so i should bring forth my wish list to to to this to this conversation but part of it is so we can 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:26.000 - have a discussion i think that the way you achieve this is x now if i'm wrong great like i'll be 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:31.280 - accountable to that too and vice versa so like you know so i'm not concerned about there being 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:35.840 - wish lists i think that we have now a structure to discuss that wish list which is actually bring 00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:36.000 - to 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:41.440 - bear like what is why do we think that that's the best way to move this forward and then furthermore 00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:46.240 - there's this this up and down so that's the horizontal measure there's an up and down measure 00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:50.880 - that goes but wait where does this fit within all of the other things that that we're we're trying 00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:51.040 - to 00:46:51.040 --> 00:46:56.240 - invest in you want this more than this is a conversation that has to be had and we should 00:46:56.240 --> 00:47:04.960 - be having those conversations publicly as we are doing today so i think that we will be 00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:12.880 - in a much better position next year to have a lot of conversations that we're 00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:17.680 - 100 have this year i'm not saying we can't have this year i'm just saying that the first pass on 00:47:17.680 --> 00:47:23.280 - this the first pass on figuring out does every cost associated with hope well governance but that 00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:23.440 - but 00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:28.560 - we talked about that you know but that's but that's level three right we've already we've already 00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:28.720 - in 00:47:28.720 --> 00:47:33.200 - this group said that like there's no way we've moved that this year to the right right but i'm 00:47:33.200 --> 00:47:40.240 - just saying from the standpoint of from a practical standpoint for the staff in each department who 00:47:40.240 --> 00:47:44.000 - put together the budget and you do it in category one two three now we're saying do it in category 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:48.800 - one two three four and we're saying sortify bucket and we're saying sortify program and we're 00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:49.120 - saying 00:47:49.120 --> 00:47:56.240 - present all of these by program so this is a huge shift it's a huge shift in just preparing to have 00:47:56.240 --> 00:48:02.320 - this discussion yeah so there is not and i think maybe the world might have an idea that somebody 00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:06.720 - can just go into new world and press a button and it will spit out here is everything related to 00:48:06.720 --> 00:48:14.320 - trades district that's not how our accounting system works it's not that good and so the work 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:19.040 - to prepare the numbers to have these conversations is very deep and time consuming why would we 00:48:19.040 --> 00:48:19.280 - have 00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:24.240 - that conversation in the context that we've just discussed because we don't know yet all of the 00:48:24.240 --> 00:48:29.120 - things that we're spending money on even have discussed which is why i'm saying why would we 00:48:29.120 --> 00:48:33.120 - say here's all the money that went into trades district that wouldn't that wouldn't be a discussion 00:48:33.120 --> 00:48:39.600 - we'd be having why not if if let's say i'm just making this up like trades district is not a 00:48:39.600 --> 00:48:45.040 - i don't think we would be like economic development tracers but maybe we would you know okay so let's 00:48:45.040 --> 00:48:52.000 - say let's say that that's a bucket there the work to find out how much money is and and even that 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.400 - discussion is so mushy because like do we there's tiff money that goes in there that would be right 00:48:56.400 --> 00:49:02.000 - yeah where yeah i get the fact that there's like lots of that there's lots of overlap and lots of 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:06.480 - you know it's being very clear about you know this percentage of staff time was spent on 00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:11.040 - but we already agree without doing that exactly well that's why i said that's why the second ago 00:49:11.040 --> 00:49:16.160 - but this is but but my point is that we wouldn't be having how much money was spent on trading 00:49:16.160 --> 00:49:22.160 - district unless you had an outcome that was spend 20 million dollars on trades district that doesn't 00:49:22.160 --> 00:49:27.200 - like that isn't how you would frame the outcome but i absolutely would put it under if the if the 00:49:27.200 --> 00:49:32.880 - as as an outcome like the outcome is to spend 20 million dollars the outcome the outcome is 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:40.640 - to grow bloomington's economy in ways that grow wages yes which means attracting more advanced 00:49:40.640 --> 00:49:46.000 - services yeah which is our weakest sector and the one with the fastest growing wages and therefore 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:49.760 - everything that happens in the trades district and what we spend in there is critical to that 00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:55.680 - because that's the only game in town agreed for that so why wouldn't that be but what but what 00:49:55.680 --> 00:50:01.760 - like like that that so within that frame the outcome isn't to spend 20 million dollars 00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:06.880 - exactly but within that frame that would be that would be continued like what's the what's the 00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:13.840 - the within the way that we just framed it that is continuing we're doing things that we continue 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:19.840 - to do we have an esd department we give money to the trades district we like wait two minutes 00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:26.240 - before you know yeah don't worry they can they can wait for me you know priorities but 00:50:26.240 --> 00:50:38.160 - all i'm saying then to to be to be brief or concise is that is that that question 00:50:38.160 --> 00:50:48.000 - is is going to is is servant to the setting of our targets when we set when we set outcomes 00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.680 - we say these are things that we want to achieve then we're having discussions about these are the 00:50:51.680 --> 00:50:57.440 - ways that we're trying to do that some of it we may not be able to you know quantify at this stage 00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:03.600 - be again we know the technological the hindrances perhaps we may not be able to say you know 00:51:03.600 --> 00:51:08.880 - to the scent of how much money we're spending in trades but we do know like if this year if we want 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:15.600 - to you know increase the investment in trades district or in the mill or in helping to move 00:51:15.600 --> 00:51:20.880 - the mill into a different sort of you know the leadership position within the economic development 00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:25.520 - because like like there that may involve increased spending in that stage it wouldn't be able to 00:51:25.520 --> 00:51:25.680 - have 00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:34.320 - that discussion so so i'm like i don't know it just doesn't i'm not particular i'm not 00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:41.040 - particularly concerned with with uh with that interfacing with the like people have lots of 00:51:41.040 --> 00:51:46.800 - desires here i think that so i think my son would be if you and i are having two people are having 00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:53.520 - enough struggles to wrap our minds around what's the philosophy they are and we have to have these 00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:59.200 - with council and then the public also has these without there's a lot there's a lot to go on here 00:51:59.200 --> 00:52:09.120 - so once again i refer us to baby steps limited tools new times i think these are good buckets 00:52:09.120 --> 00:52:16.640 - i like these buckets i can get behind these buckets i think that um these capture 00:52:16.640 --> 00:52:24.960 - do what what what we care about in the administration and any outcomes that we care about 00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:30.400 - but i think they capture the things that the council's but i think there's more to say and 00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:34.720 - and you know some of this will come down to we're not going to be able to meet with council and 00:52:34.720 --> 00:52:34.880 - have 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:39.120 - a discussion about now before we create this bucket do you agree that these and these and 00:52:39.120 --> 00:52:43.760 - these things are going to go into it we're going to have to do our best while you're out and during 00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:48.720 - july to put together what we think is the best representation of doing this and then we'll learn 00:52:48.720 --> 00:52:52.000 - from and grow from it and we may look at it and be like well gretchen you guys really missed the 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:57.440 - mark on it okay sure but we're gonna have to take a running a running leap and and just do our best 00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:02.720 - with it and i think we can and then just keeping in mind also that we have plenty of um you know 00:53:02.720 --> 00:53:06.800 - the reason why we have all these plans and studies and all those type of things is to 00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:12.160 - help generate that second level outcome, right? I mean, we already have these listed in a bunch 00:53:12.160 --> 00:53:17.520 - of city things. So, you know, sort of highlighting that this is where we're focusing our attentions 00:53:17.520 --> 00:53:22.560 - this year, you know, instead of sort of picking and choosing as we go throughout the year of how 00:53:22.560 --> 00:53:25.760 - we're doing it. This gives us a clear theory like this, you know, we're pulling from the 00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:29.680 - economic development plan, we're pulling from the climate action plan, we're pulling from the 00:53:29.680 --> 00:53:36.160 - transport plan, and this is sort of how we're directing our resources as a consequence. 00:53:36.160 --> 00:53:45.280 - I made a note, I just made a note, this is level one, level two, level three. I'm just going to, 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:49.280 - for transparency, I think that we should, if we're going to talk about those levels, you should 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:49.440 - have 00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:54.000 - some kind of definite, like, we can be able to simply explain what those levels are or else we're 00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:59.680 - going to, it's going to be a very confusing conversation with more people. I mean, and I'm 00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:05.600 - not exactly sure what I would even put. I would be theoretical, so I think that's not, we've read 00:54:05.600 --> 00:54:05.760 - it, 00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:10.240 - we've read it super clearly. Again, we're not like the first city in the world to do outcome-based 00:54:10.240 --> 00:54:15.120 - planning, right? It's like, we said very clearly there's outcome areas, then there's outcome, 00:54:15.120 --> 00:54:22.560 - there's outcomes, then there's programs. So that's, and we said it clearly in our, in the- 00:54:22.560 --> 00:54:37.440 - That goes back to your letter? Okay. Okay, so if you have to scoot, I think that we lose our 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:41.680 - quorum there, so that brings our meeting to a close. See you all on Wednesday. 00:54:41.680 --> 00:54:50.960 - See you all on Wednesday. And what is the format for sending these, I guess we bring them, 00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:54.320 - Jessica will bring them to the meeting. I think it might just be good to sort of start the 00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:58.400 - conversation by saying, "Hey, like we've had the chance to talk and maybe-" We've got a spot on 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:04.480 - the agenda, okay. Like I don't, I can't imagine that ideally we just talked about that first, 00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:10.800 - because I feel like we could get that out of the way pretty quickly. I think the agenda, 00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:19.200 - I don't need to think about the agenda here. That's a specific, oh, now it is budget statement. 00:55:19.200 --> 00:55:19.280 - That 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:25.200 - wasn't what it was initially. Oh, there it is. One, two, okay, yeah. So I think we are item C, 00:55:25.200 --> 00:55:31.440 - budget task force report is where we're scheduled to do that. So there's the re-financial. 00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:37.280 - The mayor is going to make a statement about her priorities and the approach that she's given to 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:45.040 - administration. Then we can report out on these categories we've just identified and then we 00:55:45.600 --> 00:55:55.600 - chit chat. See how far we get. All right, thanks. Sorry, sorry, I have to leave. Just got half an 00:55:55.600 --> 00:56:23.600 - hour. [Music]