- I'm going to start talking.
- Yeah. Okay. What are we going to talk about?
- Our goal today is to map
- the outcome areas that council outlined as priorities
- onto the outcome areas that the mayor has identified as priorities
- and come up with a compromised version that we all can agree on,
- or we think we can all agree on to bring to council for discussion
- on Wednesday so that our time there can be
- spent so that we're not starting from scratch when we get there in terms of what the buckets are.
- And just to review for everyone, the council's areas were government transparency,
- high-performing government, neighborhood livability and social health, public safety,
- housing and homelessness, health and human services, equity and transportation and mobility.
- The mayor had, so that's eight buckets, the mayor had four buckets, affordable housing and
- homelessness,
- economic development, sorry I'm typing as I right here, economic development, core services
- and I can't remember how we framed it, but essentially high-functioning, efficient government.
- And you could you could add some other adjectives onto that, transparent, all the things that we
- want and so just to kind of give an overview of I think that as we create these buckets from what
- I understand from Kelsey's conversations, the conversation about well what exactly is included,
- where is their overlap, I know Jessica took some time to try to look at these eight categories and
- see how they might work with last year's budget and found it a little too difficult, too many
- things that overlap or could be there. So I'll give my little statement on how I think we should
- proceed and we can just have a conversation. So one thing is I understand from the council
- conversation there's a lot of conversation around well this could be this or it could be that and I
- think it's important to stay really focused on what it means to the public. So yes of course
- transportation issues are part of safety and is that part of public safety? Maybe, but I think when
- the public hears public safety they think they don't think transportation and so as we're thinking
- about transparency it would be good to make sure our buckets are really common sense buckets and
- very let's return each other as we can be knowing that there will be great areas when we put things
- into them. The other thing I would say is that from the mayor's standpoint a lot of things are
- packed into core services and we that's an area where I think we can break out some other
- categories
- but when we start getting up to you know multiple categories then we're essentially it looks like
- our departmental budgets just with different titles. I think it's we have to be careful that
- we don't slice this so thinly that we just end up with our departmental budgets in disguise.
- And then the last thing I'll say is that there are a lot of notes in the document that council sent
- on
- you know particular line items or ways to execute online items and none of that is what I think we
- should discuss today because the function is the big buckets in the month and those are great
- examples
- to help us understand did we cover everything is there a place for everything but I don't
- I don't think now is the time to debate whether or not our website should have a
- user function like how we do that. So I have thoughts on where I would put these but
- can so what the one I think slightly different viewpoint that I have is that you know going back
- to our first conversations here is at the task force and thinking about meaningful steps we take
- towards the I know I'm trying to fix the blur so y'all are gonna have to bear with my giant head
- in the corner. You know we we settled on on on this year making a big push toward outcome areas
- as to help us make meaningful steps towards solid outcome.
- And so my thinking about this all along was that there was always going to be overlap there's you
- know the how to distinguish between outcome areas I think is it's mostly a question of where is the
- key like why do we what is the key reason why we do a thing and and so um so you know in the long
- run we'd be talking about how do we know that this has been successful but it's helping us
- understand like we are doing this investment or not or reduction or whatever for a key purpose
- and so um I think having having some like core services doesn't really help us move towards that
- right um so so that would be my my my distinction there is that we don't I yeah I don't I don't I
- don't know if it's too um even if there's overlap I don't think that it creates too many
- difficulties
- just helping us really say like is this an investment about connectivity or is this an
- investment about public safety and I think it changes the way that you evaluate them.
- I think that's true and I think we're going to find that there is a lot more
- baked into core services and some other areas that are on here so for example I noticed council
- didn't have economic development as a bucket at all we try and that is a that is a bucket for
- the mayor 100 percent exactly she will um that I don't think that's enough I think that's not
- eligible for her right um and I think there are things like when you think about um core services
- like that when what we had bundled in there would have included public safety and other things that
- we can easily break out but also sanitation yeah um other things that yeah exactly that's what I
- mean if you pull too many things out of the bucket then what you're left with is well now what's
- left
- is such a hodgepodge that what is the what's the rationale for that so maybe we could start by just
- with a few I should say too we started so so the I mean to properly interpret um the letter right
- um
- we started with all of the areas that we had originally sent in our in our sort of first um
- in that first letter that we put together right um we started with all of those outcome areas
- and then what ended up in the letter was some multiple stages of ranking amongst council members
- and so I've been I've been struggling myself to interpret this question of um
- by the way is the audio working on the thing because it says join audio there
- I don't know if um if it's yeah I don't know um but so so the um you know we started with all
- those I think you established a little pull it up here so I know what you mean yeah right yeah and
- so so when we um I don't know how to interpret the fact that that economic development is on there
- beyond the fact that that nobody has any ideas pertaining to economic development
- I think that was the only one who said anything economic development related at least you were
- saying so so I don't so so I don't think I don't think you view the letter from council as these
- are the buckets we want I think you view it more as here are the ideas that are really resonating
- with us at the moment right and and the things that there's support for but but I think we also
- have had a lot of conversation both in the budget committee and at the various meetings council
- that
- it's like this is the beginning of negotiation they're not thinking about it despite the fact
- that there's things like 200k for whatever like just despite the fact that there's some with that
- high level specificity like nobody's thinking about this from the perspective of that last year you
- see what I'm saying I do and I think an important distinction is are we thinking about outcomes or
- we're thinking about programs because the mayor didn't approach this as we didn't approach it as
- let's come up with a list of programs we think are interesting in that list of our buckets we
- approach it from what are the most important outcomes for the residents of Bloomington that
- we need to achieve right and and so that's why our buckets are very limited because they were the
- most important outcomes not a comprehensive list of you know every program much less every new idea
- and I think that'll be as we get into the actual budgeting process the question of how do we cover
- with less money all the things that we currently currently believe are good all of the things that
- the administration and that individual departments believe are important to do that are new and
- then
- when council has new ideas too like there's less money to do all of it right so yeah so but
- remember
- it's it's outcome areas right comes within those areas and then and then specific programs that
- also should have outcomes attached to them we we agreed in talking at that three level at those
- three levels that that we don't have the technology or the sort of institutional strength right now
- to
- do outcomes of the at the program level yes moving towards that but so so to your point
- I think that it's you know it's it's I don't think it's I don't think it's it's particularly
- helpful for us to say you know let's just have one big bucket where we throw everything that
- doesn't fit within within the larger ones I think that we say no let's let's let's come up because
- because the the conversation that we still haven't had is but I think what you what what
- you're getting closer to is saying here are here are the three things I'll take or services away
- because that like we've talked about from the beginning here like it doesn't like it doesn't
- help us to say oh there's a bucket of things just these are just things we have to do right we need
- to be even clear about what it is we're trying to achieve with the things we're trying to that we
- just have to do but you said here essentially are three top things right this is these are our
- priorities is how is how I read the letter that you sent rather than rather not saying
- transportation is not in our budget it's saying in so far as transportation goes we're thinking
- about it from the lens of of continuing essential services for you know something like that right
- and so so that that's that's more I think the the space that we're saying you know where what are
- our areas what are the what are the priorities within those areas and how do these different
- areas relate in terms of priorities to each other so if we rank these priorities where are they
- so maybe we could start with some easy overlaps we had affordable housing and homelessness you
- guys had housing with homelessness so whether we call it affordable housing housing homelessness I
- think we need all kinds of housing you know affordable housing is if we were to develop
- lots of housing and none of it was affordable there's a whole philosophical argument there
- create more housing when this anyway I'm not going to go into that but so that's one so we've got
- one
- down regram I would say whatever we call the there does need to be a category where we put
- everything related to the lack of a better phrase overhead accounting HR IT legal clerk there's a
- category of services that are although you have in the clerk's office that has direct services to
- the people and you could make the argument that everything the controller does is of course
- obviously
- for the people but things like processing payroll and ensuring that people get their benefits on
- time
- for the way that the city government operates are they have to live somewhere yeah and I would say
- that trans so whether we call that high performing government can we assume that a high performing
- government is transparent that transparency is part of the high performing government yeah whether
- so yeah so two questions there I think I think high performing I'm speaking for myself obviously
- not for the entire and we should know whatever we bring this is this committee and we're just
- trying to help it's just a way to facilitate I think I think you just identified a nice way of
- having the discussion which is um which is trying to figure out whether some of the things that we
- might have identified as so remember three levels so I'll call them one two and three just to make
- conversation easier here um whether things that we identified as one level are actually two levels
- right um and that I think that that that is potentially reasonable um I think the um the
- idea of saying high performing government sort of fits lots of things can fit in within a high
- performing government um and I think that's better than something like continuing service
- because it does push us to say okay like what is it that we want out of out of it or out of
- right I mean it's not you know the you know or HR that matter and you know and I would say for
- those
- of us who actually work in the city the amount of work that needs to be done to make our government
- high performing is a lot a lot and it is part of what would I think be very visible improvements
- to the public as well well right so I don't by calling I don't mean by calling it overhead to be
- like oh blah blah blah let's not talk about that I mean there's some really critical work that
- needs
- to be done there I would also put equity under that I know that there are a couple council members
- who
- have particular been lobbying for several years to make a whole department or to a a c-level
- position for equity and I see that those line items are back in this proposal I don't think that
- I mean help think through this with me like why is it a why is it a problem for us to have
- um for sake of argument 20 areas of of areas of um that's a good question
- well I think the more areas we make the more choices we have to make about does this go here
- or here I think I but so so counter to that is sure it might be administratively more difficult
- for us to figure out where things go which I think is a fruitful conversation regardless
- I don't mean it as an administrative difficulty although it is an administrative difficulty I mean
- that it creates it's kind of like uh creates more if you're a resident and you want to find
- something
- and you have to check more categories and you're like well I don't know if it's here or here
- I don't think I don't think it creates the transparency where after is my point I think
- it works how into that but go ahead but but so so the the reason I the reason I said this is
- because
- two two things one is that there are as we've talked about lots of elements in our budget
- that are ascending for lack of better telling hidden currently staff time programs that don't
- actually have a cost outside of the fact that we do them right similarly there are things and
- equity being a good example that I think it is important for us to to have to discuss directly
- and not just assume that it appears somewhere and so that we're purposeful with the way that
- we're planning around investing in where relevant and etc around something like equity so the the
- but it may be as for example in the list that council gave a lot of the things around like
- transparency around equity not necessarily that be like big budgetary investments as opposed to
- them being areas where where where there are clear discernible outcomes to our activities and so
- I think that there's a lot of benefit to having a to having actually a longer than shorter list
- because because otherwise I think I think it's actually I think actually we'll see the opposite
- to what to what you to what you said I think that that you get closer to the just departmental but
- just like oh yeah and then there's then there's you know a million dollars here that's just in
- that department's account and that's under high performing government and so you know it doesn't
- lead us to the conversation that we actually want to have around I mean I think if we keep in mind
- that we're not just creating these buckets that we're also talking about having a very different
- kind of line item approach where the programs are actually listed so let's let's talk about where
- we
- are now to where we're going so where we are now you see category one two three four you see it by
- department total you see by fund total and if the department in the presentation singles out some
- programs and is ready to say here are of the 45 programs my my department ministers here are three
- that I think are important that we have time to discuss in this budget session that I'm going to
- single out and talk about there's no way currently to see what are the other 42 programs you find
- it
- yeah necessarily because you have a program the expenses would be across three different
- three or four different categories sure so when we make the switch we're not just saying here's
- the buckets and now we're going to do category one two three four under the buckets we're saying
- here are the buckets and then let's line out the actual programs under those buckets and I think
- one of the things that may be surprising to folks is how many of those programs there are and so
- the
- desire to review program by program by program is a bigger task than it may appear and also an
- education task and if our website were revised today that would be a lot easier for everyone to
- see and setting up on in advance but it's not so so so I guess what I'm saying is the choice
- between
- you know two buckets and 20 buckets depends to some degree what's the line how clear is that
- line detail and and we make clusters of programs in there and and that just depends on how much you
- want to break things out so let's say let's say public safety is its own category yeah when we
- say that and then we run through programs on there and that would include obviously police and fire
- but it would also include some programming programming costs from cfrd yeah and maybe
- some other places as well those are free to come on top of them yeah um you know what do you call
- the general police program like police have some positions that are meant to achieve they're not
- they're not programs per se in a way that other departments might have programs that businesses
- are no problem with supply too and so but i think that the slicing is gets trickier as we go so
- that's important now this this is what but this is where the second level is so important because
- how we define how we define the goals within buckets helps delineate what buckets you need
- yes so let's go can we go back and just talk a little bit about the actual priorities that you
- guys said versus the level one level one areas of priorities because because because to be clear
- high functioning government is not a priority it doesn't it's a it's a bucket in which to make
- priorities and if we confuse those we'll get into trouble and i think speaking as my own self as a
- human commenter that is the mistake that we have been making continually at council is that we're
- getting confused between outcome areas outcomes programs like we're interchanging them too much
- and and so so i do think high performing government is an outcome that we need
- no no i agree but that is that itself is that doesn't mean anything high performing government
- means nothing by itself we have to define what that means okay you see what i'm saying i do um
- so so so so so just be super clear even so so what i what i'm what i also have clarity for myself
- about is that even for us to agree on the outcome areas on wednesday that's fine but what we really
- should be doing is starting to agree on on the on that second level set of things and that answers
- are all about the question that we that we spent 20 minutes trying to wrestle with here it's that
- you say if we say high performing government means a government that is transparent okay fine but
- even
- then further that we're able to respond to foyer requests within 24 hours okay so so here's here's
- where i think it gets challenging to talk about the second level stuff here is that those that
- second level stuff of the line items or what are we doing that is the switch that the budget
- process
- is making so i don't think that anyone has a clear enough window on what those items are to be able
- to say you know what you should do is xyz because you don't know what we already are doing or
- already
- planning to do necessarily program i don't know necessarily each and every program of every
- department um by name so but but that's that's where i mean so so i'll use the foyer request
- as an example because i think it's a it's a particularly good one that um that if a thing
- we want to see happen and again is we want to be able to respond to foyer requests in x amount of
- time now where we put that on your priority list okay not the question right now but it's like
- you want to be able to respond to foyer request let's just say within 24 hours that's something
- we all agree that would be a good thing yes no okay we all agree this is a relatively good thing
- what would it cost or make what would we have to do to be able to do that starts to open the
- question to well are we already are we already doing that is nothing needs to be done is is this
- just a matter of well in the next six months or the next year because of things we've already done
- that's going to happen already you know what and that's a super small thing but it is a thing that
- that that we might care about no and it's a great example because it touches on so many other
- things
- besides the requests any amount of time it takes and the person who answers it exactly where does
- the data lid how easy is it to get to how clean is it exactly and so so then but but but so so
- having
- set you know a and then so so that that's why the the critical work is saying is being able to get
- to
- two statements like and again we're not going to be perfect on this this is like you know we don't
- have the technology yet we don't have we've done this the first time i get it like so many caveats
- here but if we can get to a statement like you know responding to FOIA requests within 24 hours
- now where we want to put that is that high performing government is that transparency
- and at that level it no longer matters what what area that's under right so can we go back to
- the big buckets yeah and do a little because we have you have to be somewhere at 10 30 we have
- 10 30 so let's we talk a little bit more because our goal remember is to go to council on the 14th
- with a list and say here's one way here's a possibility to discuss that lives somewhere
- between the administration and council's list so housing and homeless so you have eight items
- housing homelessness check government transparency and high performing government i would argue
- that
- one and we already have that on our list so check there are a couple here that i think
- transportation and mobility is a good one to pull out because there is so much interest in those
- and
- confusion about what what those projects are they get a lot of scrutiny there are a lot of
- projects that go into that also lots of capital projects so that leads to interesting funding
- conversations because they are capital projects so i think pulling that we would agree to pull that
- out economic development is one that we pulled out that you didn't that the mayor will not want to
- talk about anything we did pull it out it's just that what's reflected in the letter is is nobody
- has any ideas on this right right right so so there will be no pushback to having economic
- development as an area it's interesting that it got perceived as an exercise and let's come up
- with new ideas because that's not really the function we're after i'm not sure if i'm not
- sure if any of these were new ideas i think they were ideas that were like you know how do you
- operationalize broader themes that are already in other represented plans right and that was the
- list at the beginning of the letter you know just like here's some you know here are places to pull
- from right i mean like and yeah like it's not i don't think there was a thing mentioned that's
- like you know oh my gosh no one's ever thought of this or talked about this before
- so let's go back to so that leaves
- that brings us to five still leaving core services to unpack and talk about that on our list
- because
- we have fewer and then that leaves four items on on your list to talk about
- so public safety i think if you want to pull that out that's a pretty classic one to pull out
- you could do that i think there are some interesting questions that will come up and some of this
- we
- just need to define or explain as we put the numbers together what we put where so the example
- i will use is parks has a whole bunch of expenses related to picking up needles responding to
- encampments those are not they are impacts of homelessness but they are not those expenses do
- not address the root cause of homelessness so we were addressing they're addressing public safety
- so we would put those costs under public safety but it needs but if someone were to say
- what is all of the money that the city is spending on homelessness that's a bigger pool than
- solving the problem homelessness homelessness and impacts of homelessness which is a much bigger
- number true so um so let's let's add public safety and even though we're not thinking of
- departments i do think it helps as we go through to think about um each department where would it
- live generally or are there areas just to make sure that i don't know i think it's a core um i
- think it's the core justification for moving to outcome-based budgeting is exactly that is
- that you want you want people to say to say okay we're doing this thing that is that is for public
- safety and now you have this conversation of like hey why isn't so and so helping with or is is
- this
- is this appropriate to be siloed here how are you contributing to the overall but right like
- those are the very useful conversations to have it is okay that parks is doing a public safety
- thing
- oh no totally i just mean we don't want to have a situation where um uh let's say uh
- where we don't know where the bulk of one department's expenses go now maybe that's
- a valuable conversation to have and it certainly could be but um it would tell us if if that's the
- case if we cannot if i mean we have to it's i don't i don't want to say this in in fear of
- being taken out of context but but i think it's necessary to be said we can't operate with the
- assumption that every single human every single program every single dollar that we spend currently
- is you know the right way to spend sure to organize and and and so we should not build
- our outcomes areas our goals to the way that we currently operate if we're to be in a situation
- we're like we don't know where to put this part of this this whole department's budget like maybe
- we have a problem with that department right for sure for sure but i guess a better example
- might be sanitation once sanitation in mind is like sanitation is a essential service that everyone
- expects it's not a public safety service it's not affordable housing it's not economic development
- it's not transportation mobility i mean you could make the case maybe that it was high performing
- government but i don't think if i'm a resident and i'm thinking where's how do i know how much
- clean water and getting my trash picked up where that lives you wouldn't necessarily assume high
- performing government yeah agreed we we did have a couple of headers that didn't again didn't make
- it into the way that just the way that this one of this one we went about this and so it was a
- flawed process for many reasons but again we're trying our best so like yeah and that's great
- but neighborhood and community vitality as an example of something something okay we could
- talk about safe community is something you could talk about and that might be where sanitation goes
- in like you don't want everybody getting the plague like feels like uh it's like a wonderful
- outcome you know what i'm saying so let's look at so you have three categories left um i i don't
- think
- um we're not going to want to break out equity because it's our own category for a whole host
- of reasons be happy to have a conversation about it but um for right now we would and are thinking
- that is part of like performing government and there are costs and programs associated with that
- that we are doing that we've been pulling out there um so that leaves you've got two left here
- and we still have core services to figure out what to do i think the gap we're trying to bridge is
- between um unpack that into something that makes sense um neighborhood livability and social health
- health and human services to me those are both kind of mushy um but i do think sanitation falls
- in health and human services yeah it's when i go back to the flag comment that's an essential part
- of us providing it but i think work community is important because there's a lot of work you could
- say we could say the parks are you could say that black history month is community agree say there's
- all kinds of things that that we want to do arts investments one percent for the arts is the
- economic
- development yes you could also say that it's part of developing um what is it primarily and right
- like like how are you well because because because this is this is the this is the um the pit the
- pitfall the the you know the danger spot here is that if if all things are all things then they're
- nothing and that's how we talk about a lot of things oh yeah this thing that we do is about this
- and it's about this and it's about this and it's like well what is that like what's the core reason
- that we do this does not exist what is the effect on the community what are we keeping in the
- budget
- and and you know and i think i think that i mean okay if we're starting to have conversations with
- departments that are like we're going to see a 20 reduction and so we all need to think about where
- you can cut again we're falling back into the problem which you know it's it's like it's the
- question is what is it that we're doing to move forward what is it that we're doing to achieve
- our goals so the way i would frame that category that might bridge the gap between neighborhood
- livability and social health and health and human services is community health and vitality yeah
- that works well i think what we had written the first time reflecting on fort collins was
- neighborhood community vitality is how fort collins has it um and i just would cut neighborhood out
- because sometimes there is the heart for saying they are part of the community and and sometimes
- the things that we're talking about for the community don't happen in neighborhoods they
- happen across the community as well so okay so that we take out core services which i understand
- you hate the mayor loves it but i think yeah but i think what she what she likes about it is when
- when we're strapped for money and when people think about when we think about what are residents
- most value and most complain about to us and things they would like to be improved it is
- for services they expect as taxpayers right but let's we don't we don't often get requests for
- you know random pool fund well right things that people want it's why is it why doesn't this happen
- about 100 but do you remember where we start like when we first met the the four of us first met
- i actually was confused it's sitting wasn't there that first conversation either um that this that's
- what we spent most of our conversation about it's like how do you who what do you do in an outcome
- based budget around things that that you know we what do we what do we we had a whole discussion
- about even what to call it um do you remember because because i because i kept talking about
- oh well what we're really talking about is the discretionary funds we're like no no it's not
- about discrete nothing's discretionary person right like and and what's not core i think was was
- part
- of the conversation we came to and this was a huge realization for this group for me is to is to
- say
- that that we need to be more specific around around core services how somebody would say and
- i still today almost on a daily basis have people coming up to me saying that that we need to
- collect
- leaves that that's a core service please just not yeah and so yeah but so that's that's right but
- so so that's that's where it's free still yeah but that's that's where you know just if we just
- have
- a big bucket that's called club services it doesn't help with that with what what it is that you're
- saying that we're trying to achieve so right so we all we're all on the same page of the sense that
- there are certain things that that are baseline um for um you know which is which is where you know
- maybe you know hopefully next year we get into these conversations about different offer types
- and all that type of stuff right but there's certain things that just need to be maintained
- but we should still get to what it what the goal is there because if we say core services then it
- would sound like our outcome would be something like maintain core services well we still haven't
- defined what core services are right so you see so so so we need to help ourselves in defining that
- so so here's where um um sorry let me save this file
- um so here's where this conversation has landed portable housing and homelessness
- public safety community health and vitality economic development transportation and mobility
- and high-performance government i think those are good buckets and i think that the conversation
- about what we mean by those and what goes in them is important and i think will get easier you know
- when this kind of thing you you set up your outline and then when you actually go to do the work of
- different departments having their programs and um trying to put them into line item form that's
- when you start to really understand oh okay this one yeah and you know so we're not going to be
- able to perfectly define a system here right because we don't yet have the list of everything
- goes into it so sure yeah and and again like like we've said i think it's good for us all
- to remind ourselves and and to remind council again on wednesday that this isn't a derivative
- process i think that um you know we might realize that we actually have some priorities that we
- haven't quite been able to put in you know like we're not particularly yeah exactly like well it's
- so oh yeah of course i'm thinking about um about environment i don't know where you know
- sustainability
- and those i just in my little notes here to myself put that under community health and vitality
- right um you know it it lives in economic development as a department and you can make
- the case for why it's economic development to provide free air conditioners to folks who
- need them right um for five reasons and because then they stay cool and healthier and you know
- presumably it has but um but i think what we're really talking about there is community health
- yeah but then recycling um is recycling
- yeah well i mean that's a that's a goal that clearly no one's going to say that
- we shouldn't recycle and we don't just we don't just do it for sustainability reasons it's not
- quite economic development i mean i i think it's still community health and vitality that's where
- you're putting sanitation yeah you know that's um to separate out one piece of you know part of why
- we want people to recycle is because it takes things out of the landfill and makes trash
- more sustainable yeah yeah good but um so that's six up from r4 and down from your original seven
- or eight or probably many of them yeah but i mean and putting putting clearly a handful of them
- together and i think that's fine would you run through those six again yes affordable housing
- and homelessness public safety community health and vitality economic development
- transportation and mobility and high-performing government thank you um so then in terms of how
- we spend the spend of the time um i'm assuming is this is is wednesday account like where we're
- meeting in city council where are we meeting we're meeting in council chambers however
- binary stranger enthusiasm i'm communicating with cats and um are we going to sit in a round table
- or something they're going to configure desk in a rectangular shape okay so we're not going to be
- sitting up on the dais yeah okay good um so i i think one another thing that would be really
- helpful i mean it'd be um fruitful for the conversation is to start to get start to again
- start to get some agreement around or at least some initial discussions around you know if we're
- happy with these buckets what what are what are again not programs don't don't say what
- two hundred thousand dollars for council spending like what's the what are the things that we want
- to see that second tier is really the place that we have not spent hardly any time talking about.
- Well, I think from my perspective, we hear about it all the time, which is start 12 new programs in
- these areas relating to my special interests. That's the wrong level of thinking.
- Because we want to achieve what? Exactly. It's the what do we want to achieve part of the
- conversation, that outcome part of the conversation under the outcome areas that we are not having.
- Right. But I feel, I guess here's where I come from that I feel like there's an education process
- in this on what we're currently doing and that piece is missing. We haven't done that piece yet.
- And so when we start with what else would we like to do that's new and different without knowing
- what we're actually doing. Forget about the new and different. I worry about that. Forget about the
- new
- and different. It's the it's the it's just it's just start starting from the perspective of
- of okay but I'll pick on something to illustrate this. Why do we do a black and brown market?
- You do it. So why do we do it? Right. Well okay so so like and you know
- you'd say right basically exactly we shouldn't be doing black and brown but but but but but the
- point is that we've been doing it for a very long time right and and we would say oh well it's this
- it's a little bit of this of some reason here this year what is the goal of doing that is that
- something that gets kept in the budget is that moving is that moving the needle toward the goals
- that we are setting and I think you inherently want we all know it's a good thing and we want to
- do it and we're just asking us to articulate the but do do we I mean and just I mean again pick on
- it I mean not not I'm just like is is it a good thing to do well I have my reasons for saying it
- is but but it's just like I don't think we've had that conversation and that's not a that's not a
- you know uh uh education for council thing I think that everybody has not had that conversation
- well
- and so there's a conversation related to that that probably only people in administration know
- which
- is CFRD parks and ESD getting together and looking at the list of all of the events they put on and
- seeing where is their duplication where is their overlap what should say where should go that
- conversation is happening now before the budget season even starts which will feed into that
- conversation but so I guess but how are they even making that decision if we haven't if we're not
- setting if we're not and if we if we have a again I'm not I'm not you know do I trust that
- everybody
- can make this that they have some internal reason for doing it yes but if we have a moving scale
- for now again like I'll be self-referential about about the way that we are on council
- if we have this moving scale of how how the things that we want to achieve you know today it's
- about
- equity tomorrow it's about you know whatever connectivity the next day it's about our
- institute concerns whatever we're just constantly moving it might be the same program but we
- constantly move what we even mean somebody's trying to enter from the waiting room we're
- constantly moving how we're evaluating ourselves then we're not one we don't we're not good
- partners
- but two is that we like we're we don't hold ourselves accountable to decisions that are
- being made and so so the big push here is to get us to a place where you start with what it is
- you're trying to achieve not what it is that we're already doing and then we append some things
- that
- we want to achieve right two things i'm already doing i think i assume the way this system is
- going to work is that our buckets have inherent big goals of what we want to achieve so in public
- safety just in general that bucket wants to achieve the things reduction in crime a you know
- perceived
- safety so then the exactly unique all the unique specific programs that go into that bucket we can
- assume that they that we can we can like use our system to make those big assumptions we don't have
- to identify we don't have to discuss every single program um individually we want to because we
- assume that if it's in neighborhood health and vitality it's trying to achieve all these big
- social goals we have and we can continue our work with using that bucket as the big assumption big
- assumptions that these are the big picture goals outcomes that we want to achieve so here's my
- nightmare i'll try to make our work easier put this out on the table so this is the the place
- of fear that i'm operating from is that this turns into here's the christmas list of everything i
- want
- the city to be doing and that those those wish lists don't match up with either the funding that
- we have available or the work that people are already doing for staff capacity and maybe this
- just all goes in Kara's budget statement about you know when we have less money people are already
- spread pretty thin and we'll have to work harder and so um that's my anxiety factor is that we will
- my experience is that organizations are really good at having things to the list but that
- actually drawing the line and saying we're not going to do this anymore this is not a priority
- but that is the piece that everybody says we're going to do and then when it comes right down to
- it we never want to kill our darlings no but the thing that yeah i agree i mean steven king but the
- but the um the the um the question is not whether whether it may still be a priority but it might
- be
- that this isn't moving the needle towards towards the outcomes that we say we're trying to achieve
- we you know if if um we can use a clear example from last year we say um if we um raise police
- salaries that's going to lead to um to more police officers um being you know signing and you know
- coming with recruitment of police officers more police officers leads to lower crime okay so
- that's we have a clear theory here right do this this happens okay so so so this year if crime had
- gone up it has not but if crime had gone up and we didn't have more police officers the
- conversation
- that we'd be having is okay well wait a minute we did this and this and and we're still seeing the
- exact same problem this is not the case here we actually there's a good example last year of a
- conversation we had i think hopi led that part of the conversation she's like but wait like at what
- point do we do we say that this wasn't working or that this didn't achieve the things that we want
- so that's the way that we should be thinking about about all of this not not the assumption that it's
- like okay well it's in you know if we throw it in that bucket then in generally trying to achieve
- you know something some big goal that we have under that but it's actually specifically tied
- this this investment this thing ties that now the concern about uh you know unlimited wish list it's
- like it's fine everybody can have an unlimited wish list because there's not unlimited resources
- so it's like at the end of the day the way that you distinguish between wish lists is by how do
- they attach to these outcomes what's the most effective thing in achieving the outcome and the
- reason you want people to have a wish list especially the elected people is that we we all
- were elected by the city like you know i like i was voted on by everybody in the city right and so
- so i should bring forth my wish list to to to this to this conversation but part of it is so we can
- have a discussion i think that the way you achieve this is x now if i'm wrong great like i'll be
- accountable to that too and vice versa so like you know so i'm not concerned about there being
- wish lists i think that we have now a structure to discuss that wish list which is actually bring
- to
- bear like what is why do we think that that's the best way to move this forward and then furthermore
- there's this this up and down so that's the horizontal measure there's an up and down measure
- that goes but wait where does this fit within all of the other things that that we're we're trying
- to
- invest in you want this more than this is a conversation that has to be had and we should
- be having those conversations publicly as we are doing today so i think that we will be
- in a much better position next year to have a lot of conversations that we're
- 100 have this year i'm not saying we can't have this year i'm just saying that the first pass on
- this the first pass on figuring out does every cost associated with hope well governance but that
- but
- we talked about that you know but that's but that's level three right we've already we've already
- in
- this group said that like there's no way we've moved that this year to the right right but i'm
- just saying from the standpoint of from a practical standpoint for the staff in each department who
- put together the budget and you do it in category one two three now we're saying do it in category
- one two three four and we're saying sortify bucket and we're saying sortify program and we're
- saying
- present all of these by program so this is a huge shift it's a huge shift in just preparing to have
- this discussion yeah so there is not and i think maybe the world might have an idea that somebody
- can just go into new world and press a button and it will spit out here is everything related to
- trades district that's not how our accounting system works it's not that good and so the work
- to prepare the numbers to have these conversations is very deep and time consuming why would we
- have
- that conversation in the context that we've just discussed because we don't know yet all of the
- things that we're spending money on even have discussed which is why i'm saying why would we
- say here's all the money that went into trades district that wouldn't that wouldn't be a discussion
- we'd be having why not if if let's say i'm just making this up like trades district is not a
- i don't think we would be like economic development tracers but maybe we would you know okay so let's
- say let's say that that's a bucket there the work to find out how much money is and and even that
- discussion is so mushy because like do we there's tiff money that goes in there that would be right
- yeah where yeah i get the fact that there's like lots of that there's lots of overlap and lots of
- you know it's being very clear about you know this percentage of staff time was spent on
- but we already agree without doing that exactly well that's why i said that's why the second ago
- but this is but but my point is that we wouldn't be having how much money was spent on trading
- district unless you had an outcome that was spend 20 million dollars on trades district that doesn't
- like that isn't how you would frame the outcome but i absolutely would put it under if the if the
- as as an outcome like the outcome is to spend 20 million dollars the outcome the outcome is
- to grow bloomington's economy in ways that grow wages yes which means attracting more advanced
- services yeah which is our weakest sector and the one with the fastest growing wages and therefore
- everything that happens in the trades district and what we spend in there is critical to that
- because that's the only game in town agreed for that so why wouldn't that be but what but what
- like like that that so within that frame the outcome isn't to spend 20 million dollars
- exactly but within that frame that would be that would be continued like what's the what's the
- the within the way that we just framed it that is continuing we're doing things that we continue
- to do we have an esd department we give money to the trades district we like wait two minutes
- before you know yeah don't worry they can they can wait for me you know priorities but
- all i'm saying then to to be to be brief or concise is that is that that question
- is is going to is is servant to the setting of our targets when we set when we set outcomes
- we say these are things that we want to achieve then we're having discussions about these are the
- ways that we're trying to do that some of it we may not be able to you know quantify at this stage
- be again we know the technological the hindrances perhaps we may not be able to say you know
- to the scent of how much money we're spending in trades but we do know like if this year if we want
- to you know increase the investment in trades district or in the mill or in helping to move
- the mill into a different sort of you know the leadership position within the economic development
- because like like there that may involve increased spending in that stage it wouldn't be able to
- have
- that discussion so so i'm like i don't know it just doesn't i'm not particular i'm not
- particularly concerned with with uh with that interfacing with the like people have lots of
- desires here i think that so i think my son would be if you and i are having two people are having
- enough struggles to wrap our minds around what's the philosophy they are and we have to have these
- with council and then the public also has these without there's a lot there's a lot to go on here
- so once again i refer us to baby steps limited tools new times i think these are good buckets
- i like these buckets i can get behind these buckets i think that um these capture
- do what what what we care about in the administration and any outcomes that we care about
- but i think they capture the things that the council's but i think there's more to say and
- and you know some of this will come down to we're not going to be able to meet with council and
- have
- a discussion about now before we create this bucket do you agree that these and these and
- these things are going to go into it we're going to have to do our best while you're out and during
- july to put together what we think is the best representation of doing this and then we'll learn
- from and grow from it and we may look at it and be like well gretchen you guys really missed the
- mark on it okay sure but we're gonna have to take a running a running leap and and just do our best
- with it and i think we can and then just keeping in mind also that we have plenty of um you know
- the reason why we have all these plans and studies and all those type of things is to
- help generate that second level outcome, right? I mean, we already have these listed in a bunch
- of city things. So, you know, sort of highlighting that this is where we're focusing our attentions
- this year, you know, instead of sort of picking and choosing as we go throughout the year of how
- we're doing it. This gives us a clear theory like this, you know, we're pulling from the
- economic development plan, we're pulling from the climate action plan, we're pulling from the
- transport plan, and this is sort of how we're directing our resources as a consequence.
- I made a note, I just made a note, this is level one, level two, level three. I'm just going to,
- for transparency, I think that we should, if we're going to talk about those levels, you should
- have
- some kind of definite, like, we can be able to simply explain what those levels are or else we're
- going to, it's going to be a very confusing conversation with more people. I mean, and I'm
- not exactly sure what I would even put. I would be theoretical, so I think that's not, we've read
- it,
- we've read it super clearly. Again, we're not like the first city in the world to do outcome-based
- planning, right? It's like, we said very clearly there's outcome areas, then there's outcome,
- there's outcomes, then there's programs. So that's, and we said it clearly in our, in the-
- That goes back to your letter? Okay. Okay, so if you have to scoot, I think that we lose our
- quorum there, so that brings our meeting to a close. See you all on Wednesday.
- See you all on Wednesday. And what is the format for sending these, I guess we bring them,
- Jessica will bring them to the meeting. I think it might just be good to sort of start the
- conversation by saying, "Hey, like we've had the chance to talk and maybe-" We've got a spot on
- the agenda, okay. Like I don't, I can't imagine that ideally we just talked about that first,
- because I feel like we could get that out of the way pretty quickly. I think the agenda,
- I don't need to think about the agenda here. That's a specific, oh, now it is budget statement.
- That
- wasn't what it was initially. Oh, there it is. One, two, okay, yeah. So I think we are item C,
- budget task force report is where we're scheduled to do that. So there's the re-financial.
- The mayor is going to make a statement about her priorities and the approach that she's given to
- administration. Then we can report out on these categories we've just identified and then we
- chit chat. See how far we get. All right, thanks. Sorry, sorry, I have to leave. Just got half an
- hour. [Music]