WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.260 - Call to order this meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals for May 22nd 2025 00:00:05.260 --> 00:00:12.340 - Could we get a roll call, please Ballard Fernandez 00:00:12.340 --> 00:00:16.040 - Casinco 00:00:16.040 --> 00:00:18.200 - Here I 00:00:18.200 --> 00:00:25.630 - Didn't recall did you distribute the minutes? I didn't I did not personally seen them. I've been 00:00:25.630 --> 00:00:25.920 - out 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:30.600 - Okay, we do have minutes for approval from the April 24th meeting last month 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:33.760 - Those who have read it. Do I have a motion to approve? 00:00:33.760 --> 00:00:36.560 - Move to approve April minutes 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:50.200 - Fernandez, yes, because Cinco. Yes, the Rock Morton all abstained since I did not read them 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.360 - Ballard, yes 00:00:55.680 --> 00:00:57.240 - All right 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:03.450 - So we do have petitions that are continued to the June 26th meeting and that would be a a 1722 Joe 00:01:03.450 --> 00:01:04.600 - camp construction 00:01:04.600 --> 00:01:16.640 - Cu 33 24 hat rentals LLC. Those were petitions 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:21.320 - Continued through to June 26. We do have a petition continued to 00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:27.080 - July 24th, and that's V - 13 - 25. That's Carolina Lopez 00:01:27.080 --> 00:01:33.440 - Tonight we will be hearing the following. There's been no change to the agenda, correct? 00:01:33.440 --> 00:01:42.080 - No, actually the first case be 11 - 25 requested a continuance as well to which date 00:01:42.080 --> 00:01:44.560 - So that would go to the June hearing 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:51.600 - Okay, so for the record V - 11 25 - 25 will be continued to the June 00:01:52.520 --> 00:01:54.520 - 26 00:01:54.520 --> 00:01:59.040 - That right June 26, okay. All right, that's the only change 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:06.420 - Then the petitions we will hear in this order tonight will be V - 14 - 25 down at least so Weiler 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:14.240 - V - 16 - 25 amber rentals be - 38 - 22 Brian rental wh Plaza LLC 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:18.640 - V - 17 - 25 Bloomington cornerstone Christian fellowship 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:22.440 - again, that will be in that order for those of you that are in the 00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:25.280 - chambers who will be 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:30.080 - Addressing us as petitioners or even the public the process will be will hear a report from the 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:30.560 - staff 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:34.200 - Then the petitioner will have an opportunity to speak for 20 minutes 00:02:34.200 --> 00:02:37.640 - Whatever portion of that 20 minutes is not used will be reserved 00:02:37.640 --> 00:02:41.880 - Until before the votes taken where the petitioner have the opportunity to use the remainder of that 00:02:41.880 --> 00:02:42.180 - time 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:46.740 - Anyone from the public who's here in attendance would like to speak either online or here will be 00:02:46.740 --> 00:02:49.080 - afforded five minutes to speak 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:55.400 - To that petition or variance fair enough with that can I get? 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.700 - And we'll go to the first petition and that is 00:02:59.700 --> 00:03:07.120 - B - 11, I'm sorry. I need to get to the right page since it's forward. I 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:16.960 - Can't print these out because they're a hundred and some pages long. Sorry 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:18.960 - All 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:29.400 - Right, I believe V - 14 - 25 and you speaking to that Eric, okay staff report, please. Thank you 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:36.520 - Request from Don and Lisa Weiler for a property at 934 West 2nd Street 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:42.120 - And the petitioners are requesting a variance from the maximum excess accessory structure size 00:03:42.880 --> 00:03:48.180 - and maximum size for an accessory dwelling unit to allow for the construction of a new accessory 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:50.960 - dwelling unit in the residential urban lot are 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.040 - for zoning district 00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:56.440 - So this property as I mentioned is at 934 West 2nd Street 00:03:56.440 --> 00:04:00.920 - This is on the north side of 2nd Street and a zoned residential urban are for 00:04:00.920 --> 00:04:05.820 - To the north in the east you have single-family residences to the west is an office 00:04:05.820 --> 00:04:08.360 - And then to the south our offices as well 00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:13.880 - The property was recently constructed with a single-family dwelling unit along the front 00:04:13.880 --> 00:04:18.460 - This is in the historic district and receive a certificate of appropriateness for that new house 00:04:18.460 --> 00:04:25.070 - At the time the HPC also reviewed a prospective new accessory building on the north side of the 00:04:25.070 --> 00:04:25.480 - property 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:30.580 - That would have a garage on the ground floor and an accessory dwelling unit on the upper floor 00:04:30.580 --> 00:04:35.870 - So the petitioners here tonight to request approval or variances more specifically for that 00:04:35.870 --> 00:04:37.420 - accessory dwelling unit 00:04:38.080 --> 00:04:42.240 - and even more specifically they are requesting to allow for the unit to be 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:48.240 - Approximately seven hundred and ninety eight square feet in the r4 zoning district 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:53.440 - The maximum size that is allowed for an accessory dwelling unit is 400 square feet 00:04:53.440 --> 00:05:00.690 - This particular lot though is more than twice the size of the minimum lot size in the r4 zoning 00:05:00.690 --> 00:05:01.240 - district 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:05.520 - And the r4 zoning district the minimum lot size is four thousand square feet 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:11.560 - And this lot is as I mentioned twice that size at about 9,000 square feet 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:14.720 - so the petitioners are requesting to 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.600 - allow for the accessory structure and 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:24.870 - They are basing that on the fact that this lot is twice the size of the minimum lot size of the 00:05:24.870 --> 00:05:25.320 - district 00:05:25.320 --> 00:05:29.320 - So the r4 zoning district when that was implemented and put on the map 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:35.280 - That was put in places where we fought thought that smaller lot sizes could be appropriate if 00:05:35.280 --> 00:05:37.520 - something were to happen in the future 00:05:37.520 --> 00:05:43.700 - Where other developments that allowed for more compact urban design might be appropriate, but this 00:05:43.700 --> 00:05:44.320 - lot was 00:05:44.320 --> 00:05:49.480 - Platted long before the r4 zoning district was put on the books 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.760 - So as I mentioned, it's more than twice the lot size 00:05:52.760 --> 00:05:56.600 - And when you look at adjacent structures in the area 00:05:56.960 --> 00:06:01.720 - You'll see a variety of accessory structures that exceed that 400 square foot 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:06.230 - That is allowed a lot of them that are surrounding here are in the six and seven hundred square 00:06:06.230 --> 00:06:06.820 - foot range 00:06:06.820 --> 00:06:13.220 - And all of the lots that are along the north side of second Street here also share the similar lot 00:06:13.220 --> 00:06:14.000 - size with this 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.080 - And are more than twice the lot size of the district here 00:06:17.080 --> 00:06:22.070 - And so the petitioners request in order to have an accessory structure in the accessory dwelling 00:06:22.070 --> 00:06:22.400 - unit 00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:27.400 - That is larger than this district is appropriate given the larger lot size 00:06:27.400 --> 00:06:32.720 - And the adjacent structures that are significantly larger than the 400 square foot 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:38.760 - That is allowed. So the petitioners request is to allow an 837 square foot 00:06:38.760 --> 00:06:42.720 - Accessory structure as I mentioned it would have a garage on the downstairs 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:47.140 - With an accessory dwelling you'd on the second floor. It'd be a one-bedroom 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:52.720 - ADU and so with this as always we are required to make findings 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:56.180 - For the criteria in the unified development ordinance 00:06:56.180 --> 00:07:03.380 - We did not find any negative findings in relation to the size or of the accessory structure itself 00:07:03.380 --> 00:07:04.320 - or the ADU 00:07:04.320 --> 00:07:08.940 - As I mentioned there are several properties adjacent to this that have structures that are bigger 00:07:08.940 --> 00:07:09.920 - than what is allowed 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:15.120 - This particular property also has an alley along the north side and the west side 00:07:15.520 --> 00:07:20.730 - So any possible impacts as a result of the increased size are mitigated by the presence of that 00:07:20.730 --> 00:07:21.560 - alley as well 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:27.840 - Again, we did not find any negative impacts on the use and value adjacent to this again 00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:32.000 - There are many structures surrounding this that are much larger than the 400 square foot 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.580 - And the presence of the alleys also helps mitigate as I mentioned 00:07:35.580 --> 00:07:38.200 - the increased size here 00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:43.600 - In regards to the strict application in terms of the UDO resulting in practical difficulties 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:48.840 - And the relation of those difficulties to this lot as I mentioned, you know 00:07:48.840 --> 00:07:52.920 - This lot size is more than twice the size of other lots in this area 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:57.660 - As we went through the standards of the unified development ordinance for the size of accessory 00:07:57.660 --> 00:07:58.320 - structures 00:07:58.320 --> 00:08:03.040 - Those are specifically relative to the size of new lots that would be created 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:08.420 - So a four thousand square foot lot a 400 square foot accessory structure is appropriate for those 00:08:08.420 --> 00:08:08.680 - two 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:13.580 - So conversely with this lot being twice the size, you know accessory structure 00:08:13.580 --> 00:08:17.920 - That is much larger than a 400 square feet is appropriate for the size of a lot 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:22.680 - Appropriate for the size of the area and so the unique characteristics here 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:28.290 - Certainly other the zoning envisions new lots of this not lot size not existing lots that that 00:08:28.290 --> 00:08:29.720 - greatly exceed that 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:34.140 - So we did make positive findings for those criteria as well 00:08:34.140 --> 00:08:38.120 - And we are recommending approval of the two variances 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:43.240 - With the two conditions that are listed in staffs report and I'm happy to answer any questions 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.240 - Oh 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:51.040 - Thank you, can I have the petitioner 00:08:51.040 --> 00:09:00.900 - Online oh, I'm sorry that you said they were here 00:09:00.900 --> 00:09:08.660 - Yes 00:09:08.660 --> 00:09:12.860 - Hello, can you hear me 00:09:13.400 --> 00:09:15.400 - Yes 00:09:15.400 --> 00:09:21.900 - This is Don yes, and will you be speaking only or will Lisa also be speaking 00:09:21.900 --> 00:09:26.000 - Just Lisa is here, but 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:31.720 - But it's I can I can talk to the points unless you would like to talk to her as well 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:32.280 - No 00:09:32.280 --> 00:09:37.380 - I'm asking for the standpoint of I need to swear you in and then I can score you both in so you can 00:09:37.380 --> 00:09:37.760 - both 00:09:37.760 --> 00:09:39.880 - Speak if we can just do it at the same time 00:09:40.640 --> 00:09:45.220 - Okay. All right. I think I can I'll be the speaker. All right, so Don state your full name 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:52.690 - Donald G Weiler, okay, and do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth 00:09:52.690 --> 00:09:53.440 - the whole truth and nothing 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:54.840 - but the truth 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:56.840 - Yes, I do and 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:58.840 - Lisa would you state your name? 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:04.800 - She's she's not gonna be speaking. Okay, very good. All right, then done you have 20 minutes 00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:07.760 - You don't have to use all of that time at this point 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:12.200 - Whatever you don't use you'll have an opportunity to use before the vote is taken 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:19.100 - Okay. All right. Proceed. All right. Well, thank you for the opportunity to present this 00:10:19.100 --> 00:10:21.680 - Yeah, I think Eric did an excellent job 00:10:21.680 --> 00:10:24.560 - Laying it out 00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:26.960 - It's 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:32.120 - We've we've been in discussions about this with planning and 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:37.560 - Through the various back-and-forths we've we've arrived at this 00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:39.520 - at 00:10:39.520 --> 00:10:43.120 - this design and this for this application and 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.280 - I feel like it's 00:10:46.280 --> 00:10:49.840 - Pretty straightforward. It kind of speaks for itself 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:57.680 - So I just in the interest of preserving everybody's time I will I will 00:10:57.680 --> 00:11:02.400 - Let you guys if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer your questions 00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:07.180 - Okay. Thank you. You'll reserve the remainder of your time, which is just over 19 minutes 00:11:07.940 --> 00:11:12.660 - With that back to the board any questions for staff or the petitioner on this 00:11:12.660 --> 00:11:17.300 - Please 00:11:17.300 --> 00:11:23.340 - Just looking at the the documents that were submitted as part of the 00:11:23.340 --> 00:11:25.740 - packet 00:11:25.740 --> 00:11:30.300 - If I'm reading this right this prospect Hill Neighborhood Association 00:11:30.300 --> 00:11:33.460 - voted support the proposal in 00:11:33.460 --> 00:11:35.700 - January 6 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:37.340 - 2025 00:11:37.340 --> 00:11:43.380 - The formal submission was March 13 2025 and it's now May 22nd 00:11:43.380 --> 00:11:46.300 - 2025 I mean 00:11:46.300 --> 00:11:50.060 - What were the material changes that were 00:11:50.060 --> 00:11:58.140 - made if any since the January 6 presentation to the Prospect Hill Neighborhood or following the 00:11:58.140 --> 00:12:01.060 - March 13th submission 00:12:04.700 --> 00:12:07.940 - During that time we were working on the actual size of the structure 00:12:07.940 --> 00:12:11.660 - So we are going back and forth between the petitioner a little bit trying to balance what their 00:12:11.660 --> 00:12:12.220 - needs were 00:12:12.220 --> 00:12:18.380 - Versus kind of what the size of other structures in the area kind of supported in terms of being 00:12:18.380 --> 00:12:19.820 - appropriate and compatible 00:12:19.820 --> 00:12:22.500 - So we were going back and forth a little bit on the design that 00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:28.080 - And this was initially slated to be on the last hearing in April 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:32.320 - But there were some challenges with that time. So it got continued to this hearing 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.320 - So 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:44.760 - What do you use to base the debate about the size just comparable units or structures 00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:48.880 - I'm just curious because if the neighborhood didn't have any problems with it, what was the 00:12:48.880 --> 00:12:55.220 - Issue for the staff. I mean sure so from the staff perspective as I mentioned one of the things 00:12:55.220 --> 00:12:55.960 - that we were looking at 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:59.560 - Well, what were the size of the existing accessory structures that were in the area? 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.280 - So we looked at the lots to the north of this and to the east kind of comparing this 00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:08.760 - So the size of the structure that the HPC saw and that the neighborhood saw 00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:13.390 - I think was a little bit smaller the petitioner wanted to have something that was a little bit 00:13:13.390 --> 00:13:13.760 - larger 00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:17.360 - And so we were just trying to balance what was appropriate 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.720 - Based on the size within the UDO 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.160 - But then also kind of what the petitioners needs were as well 00:13:24.160 --> 00:13:26.760 - Thanks 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:33.480 - I would just say to Don and Lisa, I appreciate you making this investment in in our downtown area 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:39.480 - Thank you, yeah, it's been the house 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:47.260 - that this particular lot has nobody had lived on it for several decades and 00:13:47.260 --> 00:13:51.400 - the reception from the neighborhood has been 00:13:51.400 --> 00:13:54.440 - fantastic 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.860 - Back to the board. Do we have any other questions from the board on this? 00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:06.100 - Okay, if not, it's time for public comment is anyone here wishing to make public comment anyone 00:14:06.100 --> 00:14:06.540 - online 00:14:06.540 --> 00:14:14.840 - Is that a no for that 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:24.510 - Speak to this petition, please use the raise hand function or send a note to the host and we can 00:14:24.510 --> 00:14:25.560 - recognize you 00:14:25.560 --> 00:14:34.280 - I'm not seeing anybody. Okay, and now Don sorry cut you off 00:14:34.280 --> 00:14:38.440 - And now is an opportunity for you to respond to that comment from the board or make any other 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:41.560 - comments before a motion is entertained. Oh 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:51.320 - Yeah, I was just responding to the John's comment I just we're thrilled to be in the Prospectsville 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:52.320 - neighborhood. It's 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:57.960 - And thrilled to be able to have a a functioning home on that site again 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:02.860 - So that was just the rest of my comment. So I'm in good shape 00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:05.800 - very good and 00:15:05.800 --> 00:15:08.440 - With that then we'll come back to the board for any action 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:10.440 - To 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:23.780 - Approve V - 14 - 25 with the two conditions as stated the report 00:15:23.780 --> 00:15:32.560 - Any further discussion from the board seeing them we'll call the question 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:42.120 - Pasinko yes, the Rock Morton. Yes Ballard. Yes Fernandez. Yes motion passes for 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.040 - zero 00:15:44.040 --> 00:15:46.040 - Congratulations 00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:48.160 - Thank you for joining us Don and Lisa 00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:51.440 - with that we will move on to 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:59.200 - V - 16 - 25 amber rentals LLC have a staff report, please 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:01.200 - You 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:25.000 - Zoning a long-range planner presenting on behalf of David Brintez 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:29.160 - This evening we have 00:16:29.880 --> 00:16:33.140 - 612 North Lincoln Street of variance request from minimum 00:16:33.140 --> 00:16:39.280 - side and rear setbacks to allow for a second story addition to an existing dwelling unit 00:16:39.280 --> 00:16:41.840 - This is in residential multifamily district 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:45.160 - RM 00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:49.240 - The property is about 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:55.440 - 2500 square feet comprehensive planning designation as mixed urban residential and 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.560 - The proposed use is going 00:16:58.920 --> 00:17:03.240 - To be staying as a single-family dwelling in it, however 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.600 - It is 00:17:06.600 --> 00:17:13.160 - Converting the existing two units there into one single family unit and going from two bedrooms to 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:14.780 - a total of five bedrooms 00:17:14.780 --> 00:17:19.360 - As you can see at the site plan here 00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:26.280 - to current existing issues on the north property line you see a 00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:28.920 - a 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:34.040 - Stoop as well as the eaves currently encroaching into the property to the north 00:17:34.040 --> 00:17:49.080 - And with this proposed project these are the proposed elevations with the second story addition 00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:54.960 - And of note 00:17:55.640 --> 00:18:00.000 - With adding that second story. This is how the roofline will change 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:06.360 - The current layout of the property due to the size and location of the home 00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:10.320 - Required the 00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:13.000 - The roof to be 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.400 - elevated to the point as 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:17.520 - indicated here and 00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:21.440 - Part of this will also going back to our site plan here 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.820 - These plants will remove the stoop to the north as well as adjust the eaves and bring those into 00:18:26.820 --> 00:18:28.500 - compliance and not encroach onto that 00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:30.640 - property to the north 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:36.800 - So the petitioner is requesting a variance from that required five yard setback to allow for 1.2 00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:38.440 - foot setback to the north 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:47.240 - and then also from the 25 foot rear yard setback to allow a 10.8 foot setback to the east and 00:18:48.840 --> 00:18:52.360 - this will reflect the location of the existing walls and 00:18:52.360 --> 00:18:57.920 - Allow for that to for that second story to be added 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:03.520 - So our proposed findings 00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:07.960 - We did not find anything that would be injurious to the public health safety or morals or general 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:09.440 - welfare of the community 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:14.330 - It will still have the pitched roof design which will be similar in nature and match surrounding 00:19:14.330 --> 00:19:15.040 - residences 00:19:15.040 --> 00:19:17.840 - we did not find any impact and 00:19:18.520 --> 00:19:20.940 - As a result of this requested variance 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:26.080 - As far as use and value of the area adjacent to the property 00:19:26.080 --> 00:19:32.070 - Again, we did not find anything significant that that would adversely affect any adjacent 00:19:32.070 --> 00:19:32.940 - properties 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:36.280 - And as stated the two encroachments 00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:39.080 - Would be remedied through this project 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.520 - And the practical difficulties as we review this the 00:19:50.520 --> 00:19:57.000 - the existing layout of the property as we stated was the size of the property as 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:01.000 - As well as the current location of the existing home 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:04.320 - prevented any other 00:20:04.320 --> 00:20:07.360 - Practical means of adding this second story 00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:10.360 - Necessitating the variance here 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:18.340 - So based upon these written findings we recommend that the Board of Zoning Appeals adopt these 00:20:18.340 --> 00:20:19.040 - findings 00:20:19.040 --> 00:20:22.600 - With a condition that building permit would be required prior to construction 00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:37.760 - Petitioner in attendance if so go ahead and sign in and we will swear you in 00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:39.760 - I 00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:56.640 - State your first and last name 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:01.320 - Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing 00:21:01.320 --> 00:21:02.480 - but the truth I do 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.720 - You may proceed 20 minutes 00:21:06.280 --> 00:21:13.360 - I'm here on behalf of amber rentals and we thank the staff for the report 00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:15.480 - and 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:20.560 - Are happy to try to address any questions that staff or the board may have and we appreciate your 00:21:20.560 --> 00:21:22.740 - consideration. Thank you 00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:29.760 - Well, we'll reserve the nearly 20 minutes of time for you if needed 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:38.800 - We'll go back to the board for any questions to the staff or to the petitioner on this 00:21:38.800 --> 00:21:47.920 - Please I'm sorry, this is gonna be a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:54.840 - What what triggered the requirement of BZA review I 00:21:54.840 --> 00:21:59.000 - mean because is it just that they're making addition or 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.680 - to an existing structure I 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:06.400 - Think it's normally in a neighborhood like this. We were typically 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:11.280 - Having arguments about adding density and this is 00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:14.480 - RM zone, but they're adding 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:22.440 - Changing the roofline adding a couple rooms and single-family is it just with any 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:28.400 - Construction in a house like this require BZA approval. I 00:22:29.040 --> 00:22:33.640 - Mean I guess where I'm going at did this have to come to us or could have been a staff approval 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:39.380 - Because the addition doesn't meet the setback requirements we were just erring on the side of being 00:22:39.380 --> 00:22:40.260 - more conservative 00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:44.470 - You know, we've had a couple of situations where some of these cases have gone different ways at 00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:45.560 - the board 00:22:45.560 --> 00:22:48.140 - For additions that we considered kind of minor 00:22:48.140 --> 00:22:51.870 - But like I said, we were just kind of erring on the side of being more conservative with bringing 00:22:51.870 --> 00:22:53.720 - this to the board if I understand 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:54.840 - the 00:22:54.840 --> 00:22:56.840 - renovation 00:22:57.280 --> 00:23:02.000 - It's not changing the footprint of the structure. It's just the roofline. Well, yeah 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:05.040 - So they're adding they're taking off the wall and adding this whole second floor 00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:10.920 - So it is an addition if this was just simply work within the existing roofline itself 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.790 - That might be a little bit different, but they are changing the roof and adding on a second story, 00:23:15.790 --> 00:23:16.160 - right? 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:20.350 - What's there right now is about a story and a half. So it's got an attic space. It's not really 00:23:20.350 --> 00:23:20.640 - usable 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:26.160 - If the variance is about a side setback 00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:28.200 - and 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:33.920 - The roof isn't changing the dimensions as it relates to the setback 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.040 - it just seems like 00:23:37.040 --> 00:23:39.960 - From my perspective I 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:44.800 - Would much rather that just be a staff decision and I not have to come to the BZA sure 00:23:44.800 --> 00:23:49.220 - Yeah, as I mentioned, you know in this case here, they're adding new usable space. They were 00:23:49.220 --> 00:23:50.560 - expanding the second floor 00:23:50.560 --> 00:23:53.640 - So unfortunately by the way, the code defines it 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:58.400 - It is new a new wall on the inside that we have to look at where that's going and meeting setbacks 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:00.960 - But we certainly hear what you're saying. Okay, cool. I 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.800 - Understand what you're asking 00:24:03.800 --> 00:24:09.980 - Yeah, and I would I would echo that which is it is odd because I understand you going up 00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:17.000 - But the footprint itself doesn't change so it's it's awkward. So I do have a question for Dawn 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:27.200 - Which was which is now this is going from a two-unit single-story to this is gonna be a family 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:35.890 - It is under the category of single-family, okay, it's intended though it in that area for student 00:24:35.890 --> 00:24:37.200 - rental. Yes 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.600 - I'm just curious on that 00:24:40.600 --> 00:24:45.000 - On that end of any other questions, yeah 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:47.000 - Oh 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:56.300 - This property is as it is now because it's I've been in this property it's been about a year 00:24:56.300 --> 00:25:00.280 - But I don't I don't take I don't see 2,500 square feet 00:25:00.280 --> 00:25:06.800 - Or is that the proposed? I believe the lot size is 2,500 square feet. Oh 00:25:06.800 --> 00:25:13.130 - Okay, got it. Yeah. Okay. What is the what is the square footage now currently of the property and 00:25:13.130 --> 00:25:14.480 - what is it going to be? 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:16.480 - I 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:34.840 - It's about five six hundred square feet less than the lot size and then there's about 00:25:34.840 --> 00:25:40.680 - 800 square feet being added in that half story level 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.880 - Okay. All right. Thank you 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.400 - I 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:59.400 - With that we are to the public for any comment is anyone online if so and we'd like to address this 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.560 - please raise your hand and 00:26:02.560 --> 00:26:06.640 - Anyone in chambers if you'd like to come forward and speak 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.520 - Please let yourself be known 00:26:12.600 --> 00:26:14.600 - Zero online 00:26:14.600 --> 00:26:20.790 - No, I don't see anybody online that's used to raise hand function or receive any messages. All 00:26:20.790 --> 00:26:21.200 - right and 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:28.120 - Seeing no one here in chambers, it would go back to the petitioner if you have any further comments 00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:33.840 - Do so at this time. Okay seeing that we'll go back to the board for comments actions 00:26:33.840 --> 00:26:40.230 - I'll just start by saying I mean this it just seems like a no-brainer. There's no change in the in 00:26:40.230 --> 00:26:40.600 - the 00:26:41.320 --> 00:26:46.820 - Footprint here and it seems to me pretty straightforward and meets other meets the code. So 00:26:46.820 --> 00:26:52.520 - Any other comments, otherwise, I'll entertain a motion, please 00:26:52.520 --> 00:27:07.120 - Findings and recommend recommendations for petition V 1625. I have a second second 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:12.460 - Any additional comments scene then I call the question 00:27:12.460 --> 00:27:19.800 - Yes, Ballard, yes Fernandez yes, Cosenco. Yes 00:27:19.800 --> 00:27:25.020 - And it is approved for zero. Congratulations. Thank you for your time 00:27:25.020 --> 00:27:37.300 - Next we have V - 38 - 22 Brian rental Inc WH Plaza LLC 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.440 - And looks like Gabriel that's to you for a staff report, please 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:49.400 - Yes, please just give me a moment to sit up here sure while I'm setting up 00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.320 - I'm Gabriel Holbrock zoning planner for the city of Wilmington 00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:54.320 - On the case number one 00:27:54.320 --> 00:28:24.040 - , what are you doing? I gave her on the case number. What does ZR stand for? 00:28:24.760 --> 00:28:28.520 - This is this is a new numbering that just starting 00:28:28.520 --> 00:28:36.370 - Staff hopes that that will eventually replace the old V numbers so that will only have one set of 00:28:36.370 --> 00:28:37.120 - numbers 00:28:37.120 --> 00:28:39.840 - It's switching over because of the new 00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:45.390 - Electronic system ZR stands for zoning relief. So that will be a number system for everything that 00:28:45.390 --> 00:28:47.480 - goes to the BZA including variances 00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:50.160 - conditional use and 00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:52.320 - Administrative appeals great. Thanks. I 00:28:53.320 --> 00:28:55.320 - Don't like it 00:28:55.320 --> 00:29:05.120 - Okay, again, I'm Gabriel Holbrough zoning planner 00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:12.040 - This petition relates to signage at the Whitehall Plaza shopping center on the south side of West 3rd 00:29:12.040 --> 00:29:14.000 - Street just west of I 69 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:21.940 - The site is zoned a mixed-use corridor and is a multi-tenant non-residential center otherwise known 00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:22.820 - as a shopping center 00:29:23.380 --> 00:29:26.740 - So the request at this point relates to two signs 00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:32.900 - The first is a proposed new multi-tenant sign on the 3rd Street frontage of the site 00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:36.900 - The sign requires required variances, which your board 00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:42.540 - Approved as position V - 38 - 22 in September 2022 00:29:42.540 --> 00:29:47.460 - This proposed sign is approved, but it's not yet installed. So it's not there yet 00:29:47.460 --> 00:29:52.540 - The other related sign is an existing pull sign 00:29:52.780 --> 00:29:58.500 - currently utilized by at home the existing pole sign is a lawful non-conforming sign a 00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:01.660 - condition of the variance approval V - 00:30:01.660 --> 00:30:08.820 - 38 - 22 requires that this sign be removed in the future when at home leaves their space 00:30:08.820 --> 00:30:12.300 - So we're talking about these two signs 00:30:12.300 --> 00:30:16.140 - This is a picture of the proposed 00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:19.860 - Multi-tenant sign the design has not changed 00:30:20.420 --> 00:30:23.260 - Since it was approved by the variance in 2022 00:30:23.260 --> 00:30:26.580 - The sign location is adjacent to 3rd Street 00:30:26.580 --> 00:30:32.580 - But on ground that it is quite at a quite lower grade than the roadway surface of the street here 00:30:32.580 --> 00:30:37.300 - The sign location is between Outback Steakhouse and Chipotle to give you an idea 00:30:37.300 --> 00:30:40.520 - So and this is the existing pole sign 00:30:40.520 --> 00:30:44.460 - Viewed from the south near the front of the at-home store 00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:49.340 - The location of the proposed new multi-tenant sign would be over on the left 00:30:50.340 --> 00:30:52.340 - I sort of spliced it in there 00:30:52.340 --> 00:30:54.540 - approximately 00:30:54.540 --> 00:31:02.200 - The existing pole sign is non-conforming with current sign standards in the UDO because it has a 00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:02.740 - pole sign 00:31:02.740 --> 00:31:07.650 - That's a sign design that is no longer allowed for new signs anywhere in Bloomington and also 00:31:07.650 --> 00:31:10.060 - because the height is taller than currently allowed 00:31:10.060 --> 00:31:13.920 - There may also be other aspects that are non-conforming, but it's at least those two 00:31:15.020 --> 00:31:21.140 - So the previous variance approval in September 2022 had two conditions number one 00:31:21.140 --> 00:31:26.880 - remove the at-home sign when that tenant changes and number two variance is for the sign as 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:28.460 - proposed in the packet and 00:31:28.460 --> 00:31:34.500 - Like all variances. There was a three-year time limitation on the approval in this case in order to 00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:34.900 - utilize 00:31:34.900 --> 00:31:40.290 - The variance approval the petitioner must obtain a sign permit for the approved sign before 00:31:40.290 --> 00:31:42.140 - September 28th this year 00:31:44.180 --> 00:31:49.000 - The petitioners come before the board now to request two modifications to the previous variance 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.080 - approval v-38 - 22 first 00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:55.320 - they would like to remove condition one and 00:31:55.320 --> 00:32:00.660 - then second they'd like to extend the time limitation by two years or 00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:06.500 - Other time extension up to two years that the board determines is reasonable to grant 00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:14.700 - When considering the petitioners requests it may be helpful to review the context of the board's 00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:15.600 - deliberations in 00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:20.830 - 2022 that led to the adopted conditions of approval. I want to offer two video clips from the 00:32:20.830 --> 00:32:21.700 - previous hearing 00:32:21.700 --> 00:32:25.380 - So, let's see if we can do this properly 00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:41.090 - The first clip is a board member Burel discussing the practical difficulty that justifies allowing 00:32:41.090 --> 00:32:42.660 - the new multi-tenant sign 00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:54.540 - I think we have to focus on what what we heard tonight in terms of 00:32:58.540 --> 00:33:06.580 - Because of the elevation of Third Street and when you drive you don't you don't see the business. 00:33:06.580 --> 00:33:07.180 - The road is above 00:33:07.180 --> 00:33:11.320 - You're seeing groups. You're not seeing what's behind 00:33:11.320 --> 00:33:17.740 - That's that's that that's what I see as the peculiarity of this specific 00:33:17.740 --> 00:33:20.980 - petition 00:33:20.980 --> 00:33:28.220 - And the location is a prime location we are this is a prime commercial location 00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:31.220 - and 00:33:31.220 --> 00:33:36.610 - What they are saying is that the sign is essential for the businesses that are behind they're not 00:33:36.610 --> 00:33:37.140 - seeing 00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:44.620 - Okay, so that might have been a little hard to hear I'll just repeat what you said I 00:33:44.620 --> 00:33:50.380 - Think we have to focus on what we've heard tonight in terms of 00:33:50.380 --> 00:33:55.840 - Because the elevation of Third Street when you drive you don't see the businesses below the road is 00:33:55.840 --> 00:33:56.800 - above the level 00:33:57.020 --> 00:33:59.620 - You're seeing roofs. You're not seeing what's behind 00:33:59.620 --> 00:34:05.860 - That's what I see is the peculiarity of this specific petition and the location is a prime location 00:34:05.860 --> 00:34:10.870 - This is a prime commercial location and what they are saying is that the sign is essential for the 00:34:10.870 --> 00:34:12.380 - businesses that are behind that are 00:34:12.380 --> 00:34:14.380 - not being seen 00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:25.580 - So the the other clip I'd like to show is from board member Ballard responding to condition number 00:34:25.580 --> 00:34:25.740 - one 00:34:26.020 --> 00:34:31.710 - This clip comes immediately after board president clapper made a motion that detailed alternate 00:34:31.710 --> 00:34:33.740 - findings for approval and proposed 00:34:33.740 --> 00:34:35.300 - condition number one 00:34:35.300 --> 00:34:39.260 - After this clip is when the board actually voted and adopted condition number one 00:34:39.260 --> 00:34:42.160 - But it was adopted as miss clapper had just proposed it. So 00:34:42.160 --> 00:34:49.200 - So mr. Ballard is responding to to the condition that was eventually adopted. So let's let's hear 00:34:49.200 --> 00:34:49.880 - what he has to say 00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:58.180 - Really is, you know, just came in to be able to go back to at home right now understanding 00:34:58.180 --> 00:35:01.890 - We still leave the button right go back to them saying you need to take this down to get a bigger 00:35:01.890 --> 00:35:02.420 - sign out here 00:35:02.420 --> 00:35:06.100 - You can't do that. We understand that but this being a condition of 00:35:06.100 --> 00:35:11.170 - Okay, we're gonna go one step further and say they don't have to do it. You can get your sign out 00:35:11.170 --> 00:35:12.060 - from a bird street 00:35:12.060 --> 00:35:19.500 - But once that group is gone and that sign is going to that to me feels like a happy medium all 00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:23.420 - Because because otherwise everybody's gonna dig in their heels and we're not gonna go back to 00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:26.960 - You guys have gone through a lot understand, right? 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:31.020 - You want this dealt with you want a final answer on it 00:35:31.020 --> 00:35:35.760 - I mean to me that's a very reasonable because they give the business exposure that you guys want 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:36.340 - your teams 00:35:36.340 --> 00:35:42.380 - Which everybody wants good local businesses at the same time saying at home. What do you need to? 00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:47.060 - You sign you're gonna get two big signs now. That's a plus for them 00:35:49.180 --> 00:35:53.780 - So again, I'll just read that again because the audio might not have been great 00:35:53.780 --> 00:36:00.220 - I mean he says I think that's a very fair offer really because you know, mr. Kamen to be able to go 00:36:00.220 --> 00:36:01.000 - back to at home 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:02.360 - right now 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:07.410 - Understanding that leases are legally binding right go back to them saying you need to take this 00:36:07.410 --> 00:36:08.880 - down to get a bigger sign out 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:13.840 - Here you can't do that. We understand that but this being a condition of okay 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:17.200 - We're going to go one step further and say you don't have to do it 00:36:17.200 --> 00:36:22.890 - You can get your sign out front on 3rd Street, but once that group is gone, then that sign is gone, 00:36:22.890 --> 00:36:23.200 - too 00:36:23.200 --> 00:36:29.220 - That to me feels like a happy medium all because otherwise everybody's going to dig in their heels 00:36:29.220 --> 00:36:31.020 - and we're not going to go back to 00:36:31.020 --> 00:36:37.060 - You guys have gone through a lot. I understand right you want this dealt with you want a final 00:36:37.060 --> 00:36:37.900 - answer to it 00:36:37.900 --> 00:36:42.920 - I mean to me that's very reasonable because it gives the businesses exposure that you guys want for 00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:43.720 - your tenants 00:36:43.720 --> 00:36:49.440 - Which everybody wants which we do and the local businesses, but at the same time saying at home 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:54.360 - Why do you need two huge signs? You're going to get two big signs now. That's a plus for them 00:36:54.360 --> 00:37:00.200 - I want to draw your attention to a few key words that mr. Ballard uses first toward the end 00:37:00.200 --> 00:37:02.360 - He specifically calls out local businesses 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:06.700 - As among those who want more exposure and more signage 00:37:06.700 --> 00:37:12.520 - This is who faces practical difficulties due to the peculiarities that miss Burel explained 00:37:12.640 --> 00:37:14.800 - This is who the variance approval helps 00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:19.800 - Earlier mr. Ballard refers to this approval and the condition is a final answer 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:24.620 - It was meant to resolve the issues and put an end to the petitioners difficult experiences up to 00:37:24.620 --> 00:37:25.320 - that point 00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:31.280 - He also refers to the condition as reasonable which gets close to the essence of what you need to 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:32.440 - decide this evening 00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:34.640 - the UDO and state law 00:37:34.640 --> 00:37:39.600 - Authorizes the board to quote impose reasonable conditions as a part of the board's approval 00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:44.360 - Mr. Ballard is using the same language that the code and state law use reasonable 00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:49.220 - Part of your decision this evening is to determine whether condition number one as adopted by the 00:37:49.220 --> 00:37:50.560 - board is reasonable or not 00:37:50.560 --> 00:37:55.280 - With that here are the findings that staff recommends 00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:00.400 - For the first criterion that the approval will not be injurious to the community our proposed 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.240 - finding for the removal of condition 00:38:02.240 --> 00:38:07.330 - Number one is that because the existing pole sign on the property is non-conforming with several 00:38:07.330 --> 00:38:09.000 - different standards in the UDO 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:11.960 - Its continued existence perpetuates the unnecessary 00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:17.270 - Proliferation of signs harms the aesthetic environment of the city and poses potential hazards to 00:38:17.270 --> 00:38:20.440 - motorists and pedestrians resulting from sign clutter 00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:23.400 - condition number one of the rains 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:28.710 - Approval enables a future time when the non-conforming sign will be removed thereby ending its injurious 00:38:28.710 --> 00:38:30.020 - effect on the community 00:38:30.020 --> 00:38:34.640 - Removing the condition perpetuates the injurious effects of the non-conforming sign 00:38:35.420 --> 00:38:39.970 - by granting the original variance with condition number one the board recognized that approval with 00:38:39.970 --> 00:38:43.240 - the condition was the minimum relief necessary to address the 00:38:43.240 --> 00:38:48.220 - Practical difficulty without resulting an injury to the public health safety morals and general 00:38:48.220 --> 00:38:49.920 - welfare of the community 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:55.910 - So the same criterion for the extension of time a recommended finding is that when granting the 00:38:55.910 --> 00:38:58.020 - original variance the board found that 00:38:58.020 --> 00:39:02.160 - Constructing the sign would not be injurious so long as the conditions of approval were met 00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:06.780 - The proposed sign design and location remain the same as originally approved 00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:13.070 - The board did not adopt any findings specific to any moment in time an extension of time would not 00:39:13.070 --> 00:39:13.560 - be injurious 00:39:13.560 --> 00:39:15.920 - So long as the conditions of approval are met 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:18.880 - so to the second 00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:22.260 - Criterion that the approval will not substantially 00:39:22.260 --> 00:39:27.140 - Adversely affect the use and value of surrounding properties our proposed findings are similar to 00:39:27.140 --> 00:39:27.660 - the first 00:39:27.660 --> 00:39:31.120 - For the 00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:34.800 - For condition number one. It's the same just replacing 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:37.640 - injury to the community with 00:39:37.640 --> 00:39:41.320 - adverse impacts on adjacent properties 00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:46.720 - And by granting the original variance for condition number one the board recognized that approval 00:39:46.720 --> 00:39:49.320 - with the condition was the minimum relief necessary 00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:54.480 - Similarly with extension of time it's basically the same language 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:59.640 - When granting the original variance the board found that constructing the sign would not 00:39:59.640 --> 00:39:59.880 - substantially 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:05.600 - Adversely affect adjacent properties so long as the conditions of approval were met the sign design 00:40:05.600 --> 00:40:06.820 - and location haven't changed 00:40:06.820 --> 00:40:10.720 - The board did not adopt any specific findings to any moment in time 00:40:10.720 --> 00:40:15.800 - So an extension of time would not substantially adversely affect adjacent properties so long as the 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:17.920 - conditions of approval of approval are met 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:20.800 - onto the third 00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:22.800 - criterion 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:28.140 - So that criterion requires practical difficulties in the use of the property that the practical 00:40:28.140 --> 00:40:30.360 - difficulties are peculiar to the property and that 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:33.400 - That the request will relieve the practical difficulties 00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:39.530 - Our proposed finding for the removal of condition number one is that the condition of approval does 00:40:39.530 --> 00:40:41.920 - not result in practical difficulties 00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:47.370 - When granting the original variance the board found that peculiarities of the property resulted in 00:40:47.370 --> 00:40:48.840 - practical difficulties 00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:54.660 - Related to signage and visibility for small tenant spaces in the Whitehall Plaza shopping center 00:40:54.660 --> 00:40:55.880 - the rec 00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:02.320 - Recognized practical difficulties do not apply to the same extent for regional and national brands 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:04.780 - operated by large businesses in the larger 00:41:04.780 --> 00:41:06.780 - tenant spaces such as at home 00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:10.680 - Because condition number one is only triggered once the current tenant leaves 00:41:10.680 --> 00:41:17.430 - The condition does not pose any practical difficulty for the current tenant or for the property 00:41:17.430 --> 00:41:20.160 - owner related to lease agreements with the current tenant 00:41:20.160 --> 00:41:25.200 - Any future tenants of the space currently occupied by occupied by at home? 00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:31.120 - Would be able to have signage on an existing multi tenant sign on the property on the proposed 00:41:31.120 --> 00:41:33.080 - multi tenant sign allowed by the variance 00:41:33.080 --> 00:41:38.460 - Approval or on future you do compliant signage on the I 69 frontage of the property 00:41:38.460 --> 00:41:44.120 - Because condition number one is triggered by occupancy of the tenant space and not by any potential 00:41:44.120 --> 00:41:47.080 - modification to the message or content of the sign 00:41:47.080 --> 00:41:52.130 - Enforcement of the condition does not require anyone to review or even look at the content of the 00:41:52.130 --> 00:41:53.200 - existing pole sign 00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:59.460 - The condition is content neutral and is not inherently a violation of any constitutional, right? 00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:04.200 - And then for our 00:42:04.200 --> 00:42:09.440 - Proposed finding for the third criterion for the extension of time is the remaining validity period 00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:11.880 - of the variance approval is more than four months 00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:15.780 - Obtaining a signed permit within four months is not a practical difficulty 00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:21.060 - To the extent that the time limitation of the variance approval poses a practical difficulty 00:42:21.060 --> 00:42:26.770 - it would be a self-created difficulty because the petitioner could have initiated their request to 00:42:26.770 --> 00:42:28.640 - modify the conditions of approval at 00:42:28.640 --> 00:42:33.300 - Any time in the past two and a half years between the original variance approval and now 00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:39.080 - Any delay since the original variance approval up to this point has been caused by the petitioners 00:42:39.080 --> 00:42:39.880 - own actions 00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:46.260 - Alleged construction delays due to pandemic related disruptions such as increased material costs 00:42:46.260 --> 00:42:48.440 - and supply chain setbacks occurred prior 00:42:48.640 --> 00:42:54.440 - To the original variance approval and relate to the validity period of a previous sign permit not 00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:55.680 - the variance approval 00:42:55.680 --> 00:43:02.640 - So our recommended findings are that removal of condition number one fails on all criteria 00:43:02.640 --> 00:43:05.720 - we recommend upholding the condition is reasonable an 00:43:05.720 --> 00:43:10.080 - Extension of time passes the first two criteria, but fails on the third 00:43:10.080 --> 00:43:16.290 - based on the report and the written findings of fact the department recommends that the board adopt 00:43:16.290 --> 00:43:18.620 - the proposed findings and deny both 00:43:18.860 --> 00:43:24.580 - Requested modifications of variance approval v - 38 - 22. Thank you 00:43:24.580 --> 00:43:26.620 - Thank you 00:43:26.620 --> 00:43:31.340 - Any of the petitioners who are in attendance who intend to speak? Would you all please come forward 00:43:31.340 --> 00:43:32.660 - so I can swear you and all at 00:43:32.660 --> 00:43:33.700 - once 00:43:33.700 --> 00:43:35.300 - please and 00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:37.300 - Then we'll go about our business 00:43:37.300 --> 00:43:44.410 - So we'll just do this in order go ahead and sign in give me your name then I'll swear you in and 00:43:44.410 --> 00:43:46.180 - the next person will 00:43:46.300 --> 00:43:49.340 - Sign in give me their name. I'll swear them in at such or until we're through that 00:43:49.340 --> 00:44:12.100 - Once you sign in go ahead and state your name and state your name so I can swear you in sure Dan seer 00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:15.950 - Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give Dan will be the truth the whole truth and 00:44:15.950 --> 00:44:16.940 - nothing at the truth 00:44:16.940 --> 00:44:18.940 - Yes, sir. Thank you 00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:25.310 - Next Dave caiman and you affirm that the testimony you're about to get will be the truth the whole 00:44:25.310 --> 00:44:26.180 - truth and nothing but the truth 00:44:26.180 --> 00:44:28.180 - I do. Thank you. Next 00:44:28.180 --> 00:44:32.100 - Jeff Gould, please sign in. Okay 00:44:41.540 --> 00:44:45.670 - And do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and 00:44:45.670 --> 00:44:46.300 - nothing but the truth 00:44:46.300 --> 00:44:50.100 - Yes, sir. All right, that gets that business out of the way now you have 20 minutes 00:44:50.100 --> 00:44:53.220 - You may divide it however you'd like you have 20 minutes in total 00:44:53.220 --> 00:44:58.150 - Whatever you don't use in this initial presentation will be reserved for you to address any other 00:44:58.150 --> 00:45:00.180 - concerns before a vote is taken 00:45:00.180 --> 00:45:03.060 - Okay. Thank you. Your time begins. Thank you 00:45:03.060 --> 00:45:09.140 - Okay, wait a minute 00:45:09.140 --> 00:45:11.140 - Okay 00:45:11.140 --> 00:45:20.500 - And when ready state your name 00:45:20.500 --> 00:45:24.840 - Eric Kamen Eric, do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole 00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:25.780 - truth and nothing but the truth 00:45:25.780 --> 00:45:31.220 - Yes, okay. Very good first and you may begin tell you what I thought we were gonna be 00:45:31.220 --> 00:45:37.180 - Have plenty of time, but we'll see how this goes. My name is Dan Sear. I'm with Paganelli Law Group 00:45:37.180 --> 00:45:38.740 - representing the petitioner 00:45:39.140 --> 00:45:44.800 - Wh Plaza LLC for the petition want to thank Gabriel Hambrough for working with us 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:48.400 - Clearly explaining the background in the history 00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:52.710 - There's more history before that but I thought it was appropriate that he started with some clips 00:45:52.710 --> 00:45:54.720 - of that last hearing and we appreciate the 00:45:54.720 --> 00:45:57.460 - Board's review of everything we'll get right into it 00:45:57.460 --> 00:46:00.720 - But I would welcome you to interrupt me with any questions 00:46:00.720 --> 00:46:04.260 - You may have things that I want you to wait for the whole presentation to start asking a question 00:46:04.260 --> 00:46:07.480 - I wasn't involved with the previous hearing 00:46:08.260 --> 00:46:10.540 - but we did listen to the entire recording and 00:46:10.540 --> 00:46:16.730 - We understand that they did add a condition at the very end of that deliberations before the vote, 00:46:16.730 --> 00:46:16.900 - of course 00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:19.220 - about removing the 00:46:19.220 --> 00:46:24.000 - The at-home sign and so we think that is not a content neutral regulation 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:28.850 - It is saying that they're allowing government. The government is allowing speech by one specific 00:46:28.850 --> 00:46:29.900 - tenant the at-home 00:46:29.900 --> 00:46:34.940 - We want to continue to have that existing lawful 00:46:35.900 --> 00:46:42.060 - Informing existing poll sign for at-home or whatever the successor tenant is that 00:46:42.060 --> 00:46:44.620 - Sign is important for their business 00:46:44.620 --> 00:46:48.220 - It would financially negatively impact them to take that down 00:46:48.220 --> 00:46:53.780 - and so that's why we're not doing that or haven't done that and so we're challenging the 00:46:53.780 --> 00:46:56.740 - The reasonableness of that condition 00:46:56.740 --> 00:47:01.260 - I'm gonna briefly run through some of the check check boxes here because I want you to hear them 00:47:01.260 --> 00:47:02.620 - from our perspective as well 00:47:02.620 --> 00:47:04.900 - As far as why we want that 00:47:04.940 --> 00:47:08.320 - first condition to remove that it's not injurious to the 00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:12.820 - public health safety morals and general welfare the presence of both signs of freestanding tenant 00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:15.820 - sign along 3rd Street and the approved sign and 00:47:15.820 --> 00:47:20.680 - The existing pole sign do not create any identifiable hazard or injury 00:47:20.680 --> 00:47:26.740 - These are stores that are set below the road grade any signage on I 69 would be invisible to motorists 00:47:26.740 --> 00:47:27.940 - if it were complying with the 00:47:27.940 --> 00:47:32.420 - Current UDO the existing pole sign is visible from I 69 00:47:32.420 --> 00:47:37.060 - It's going to attract a different kind of customer than the signs that are on West 3rd Street 00:47:37.060 --> 00:47:39.900 - Which are going to completely see be seen by different motorists 00:47:39.900 --> 00:47:44.470 - We think that's a fair characterization and we do agree with some of Gabriel's presentation on 00:47:44.470 --> 00:47:45.260 - those things 00:47:45.260 --> 00:47:48.460 - but the the vital function of 00:47:48.460 --> 00:47:52.380 - safely guiding informing the public about shopping that is the 00:47:52.380 --> 00:47:54.980 - That is the purpose of this advertisement 00:47:54.980 --> 00:47:59.470 - It is a commercial shopping center and so when we're thinking about largely the opposition seems to 00:47:59.470 --> 00:48:01.220 - be driven by aesthetics 00:48:01.220 --> 00:48:05.860 - I think it's really important to remember that the BZA doesn't ban all signage 00:48:05.860 --> 00:48:12.240 - I think you find that context matters and that in the context of a shopping center with many other 00:48:12.240 --> 00:48:13.100 - big-box stores 00:48:13.100 --> 00:48:16.260 - That if there if you were going to allow a variance for signage 00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:20.970 - We think this is the best place to do it, especially to allow us to continue to have an existing 00:48:20.970 --> 00:48:21.300 - sign 00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:25.220 - So the use and the value of the area adjacent to the property 00:48:25.220 --> 00:48:29.060 - They're actually going to be negatively affected if we had to remove that sign the theory behind 00:48:29.060 --> 00:48:29.380 - this 00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:32.340 - I think you've heard it before is that anchor tenant is going to drive sales 00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:35.240 - They're going to drive traffic to all of the smaller 00:48:35.240 --> 00:48:40.290 - Tenants there and all of the neighbors are going to be commercial businesses restaurants that are 00:48:40.290 --> 00:48:43.020 - going to be negatively impacted by that sign 00:48:43.020 --> 00:48:46.860 - So small business tenants. I think that was heard by the previous BZA 00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:53.500 - Which is probably why they justified allowing a new freestanding multi-tenant sign 00:48:53.500 --> 00:48:57.200 - I want to point out in case it wasn't already clear to you that the 00:48:58.060 --> 00:49:00.060 - Existing multi-tenant sign on 3rd Street 00:49:00.060 --> 00:49:05.960 - Has about nine panels on it and there are many more tenants in that shopping mall on this side that 00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:06.820 - do not have signs 00:49:06.820 --> 00:49:12.490 - And so that is part of the motivation for getting this new freestanding sign by outback and Chipotle, 00:49:12.490 --> 00:49:13.620 - which I think you can imagine 00:49:13.620 --> 00:49:18.860 - May I take this time just ask you Gabriel to put up that PowerPoint. Thank you 00:49:18.860 --> 00:49:23.100 - I forgot to ask earlier, but I think it's alright. So I just want you to see that there are 00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:26.300 - You know there it's a pretty small 00:49:26.780 --> 00:49:31.420 - Location for where the proposed multi-tenant sign is and we don't think that we have to relitigate 00:49:31.420 --> 00:49:33.020 - that that was approved by the previous 00:49:33.020 --> 00:49:38.280 - PCA but we were asking for you to remove that first condition that will really allow us to put that 00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:38.700 - sign in 00:49:38.700 --> 00:49:44.100 - Yeah, great, thank you and you can go to the next one 00:49:44.100 --> 00:49:51.980 - Continue please. Okay. Thanks. Let's leave it here. You see this up here where the proposed sign 00:49:51.980 --> 00:49:56.320 - There's a red text and an arrow on the left side that's pointing not to scale just trying to show 00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:57.560 - you where I think it 00:49:57.560 --> 00:49:59.560 - Would be if you were looking 00:49:59.560 --> 00:50:04.580 - Looking toward across 3rd Street from the north side. The you can see the current 00:50:04.580 --> 00:50:10.270 - Currently built multi-tenant sign. I'll slow down here for a minute. You can see it's about nine 00:50:10.270 --> 00:50:10.940 - panels up there 00:50:10.940 --> 00:50:14.140 - I think I counted and that is not all of the tenants 00:50:14.140 --> 00:50:16.060 - So there's a lot of tenants that don't have any signs at all 00:50:16.060 --> 00:50:22.580 - Okay, and then you can see the freestanding sign for Bob Evans the pole sign there 00:50:22.580 --> 00:50:26.710 - And I think that's outback steakhouse has another pole sign there and then you can see the at-home 00:50:26.710 --> 00:50:26.980 - sign 00:50:26.980 --> 00:50:31.810 - But in terms of a concern about the over proliferation of signs, I realize that might be a 00:50:31.810 --> 00:50:33.300 - subjective determination 00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:38.710 - But we're looking at three pole signs in this area. It's fitting within the context of that 00:50:38.710 --> 00:50:39.540 - shopping center 00:50:39.540 --> 00:50:44.980 - I'm gonna jump back to some of the UDO criteria for a variance the strict enforcement of the 00:50:44.980 --> 00:50:45.940 - existing condition 00:50:46.020 --> 00:50:50.320 - gonna require a removal of that pole sign creates a hardship that wasn't we don't think it was 00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:52.460 - fully envisioned by that board because it 00:50:52.460 --> 00:50:57.380 - Was added kind of late in the process and it wasn't really represented by a full hearing 00:50:57.380 --> 00:51:00.540 - the at-home sign is also physically separate and 00:51:00.540 --> 00:51:03.260 - it provides a 00:51:03.260 --> 00:51:07.820 - Specific purpose with visibility that the new sign can't replace like I was trying to say 00:51:07.820 --> 00:51:13.860 - I'm not sure how clear less but that at-home sign is seen from my 69 and it's seen from 00:51:14.780 --> 00:51:19.650 - Farther away then that multi tenant sign is going to be pretty small relatively and that's that's 00:51:19.650 --> 00:51:20.780 - kind of the motivation mind 00:51:20.780 --> 00:51:25.980 - Why they don't want to remove that at-home sign is because it serves an entirely different purpose 00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:28.480 - And so there's not too much overlap there. We think 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:33.140 - The Joanne fabrics is a major tenant in the park in the parcel 00:51:33.140 --> 00:51:39.250 - That has a prominent sign, but that space is going to be vacant due to their recent banker 00:51:39.250 --> 00:51:39.740 - bankruptcy 00:51:39.740 --> 00:51:44.480 - And so again why we're coming here for you is because we want the shopping center to thrive and so 00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:45.820 - we need every advantage that 00:51:45.820 --> 00:51:49.820 - We can give to them by giving them some signage with minimal impacts 00:51:49.820 --> 00:51:55.410 - The modified variance that we're asking for would allow several tenants to utilize a shared sign on 00:51:55.410 --> 00:51:56.300 - a single parcel 00:51:56.300 --> 00:52:01.680 - Rather than each tenant trying to get individual signage all these outlets in the front if you 00:52:01.680 --> 00:52:03.100 - could go to the next slide for me 00:52:03.100 --> 00:52:04.820 - When you got a second 00:52:04.820 --> 00:52:09.820 - So the out lots were parceled out you can kind of see how there's two red slots toward the top 00:52:09.820 --> 00:52:14.900 - Those are part of the parcel and then the other ones are out lots that are that so that those don't 00:52:14.900 --> 00:52:15.360 - allow us 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:20.220 - Usually the UDO would give you signage based on my limited understanding of it based on the number 00:52:20.220 --> 00:52:21.060 - of road frontage 00:52:21.060 --> 00:52:25.360 - The road frontage is pretty pretty limited to about a hundred feet. Okay, next slide, please 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:28.140 - Okay, the sign location 00:52:28.140 --> 00:52:29.380 - it's 00:52:29.380 --> 00:52:32.340 - It's and then I think you know where the at-home sign is 00:52:33.020 --> 00:52:37.120 - Right down south of that star next slide, please 00:52:37.120 --> 00:52:42.300 - Okay, the current variance approval. There are actually no minutes of that meeting. We went back 00:52:42.300 --> 00:52:45.680 - There were no minutes that were ever created for that meeting in 2022 00:52:45.680 --> 00:52:50.740 - There were also no written findings that we could find that the BSA had entered 00:52:50.740 --> 00:52:54.540 - We probably would have seen that in front of you in your presentation if there were findings 00:52:54.540 --> 00:52:57.780 - I just find that interesting. It's kind of a complicated presentation 00:52:57.860 --> 00:53:02.780 - It does suggest possibly that some of these things weren't fully considered by the previous board 00:53:02.780 --> 00:53:04.680 - because of this condition issue only 00:53:04.680 --> 00:53:10.280 - So that's the substance of the previous approval next slide, please 00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:15.820 - The approved sign design we're not asking for any changes to it 00:53:15.820 --> 00:53:20.540 - That was the approved sign design on the left on the right that's in your packet very hard to see 00:53:20.540 --> 00:53:20.780 - here 00:53:20.780 --> 00:53:23.820 - But it does kind of show you what was going on is a little bit complicated 00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:27.620 - So take ask questions, whatever you need next slide, please 00:53:27.620 --> 00:53:33.720 - Okay, so I'm just gonna leave these slides up for a second just to speak 00:53:33.720 --> 00:53:38.000 - But essentially if you were to agree with us on removing that first condition 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:41.600 - We really would need you to get an extension of time just to assure that we could 00:53:41.600 --> 00:53:45.620 - Get the permitting done and the construction done. We don't think that's a whole lot to ask 00:53:45.620 --> 00:53:50.980 - Although I do know that you you may need to get some variance criteria on that. We did just just to 00:53:50.980 --> 00:53:51.720 - be fair 00:53:51.720 --> 00:53:56.660 - We did think we need to ask for that and we there is some rules in your administrative 00:53:56.660 --> 00:53:59.720 - Guidelines that allow you to to grant 00:53:59.720 --> 00:54:03.520 - Grant an extension up to two years 00:54:03.520 --> 00:54:07.300 - We don't think we need two years, but we would like to ask for an extension based on how it goes 00:54:07.300 --> 00:54:07.720 - today 00:54:07.720 --> 00:54:12.380 - So we submit that the extension of time is important 00:54:12.380 --> 00:54:15.380 - I just want to before I go let somebody else talk 00:54:15.380 --> 00:54:19.260 - I want to explain the distinct branding visibility function by the existing sign 00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:23.760 - It has a strategic location orientation toward the highway. That's probably why I came out put it 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:25.140 - in there. It's important 00:54:25.140 --> 00:54:30.210 - It's been a part of that shopping center. It's elevated in position to capture the attention of 00:54:30.210 --> 00:54:30.700 - drivers 00:54:30.700 --> 00:54:36.380 - Those who may not otherwise turn it to Western Street it acts as a regional beacon in that way 00:54:36.380 --> 00:54:40.100 - It's the beginning of the first thing you might see of that shopping center from the highway 00:54:40.100 --> 00:54:43.620 - Signaling the presence of a large format retail destination 00:54:43.620 --> 00:54:48.030 - drawing customers who are unfamiliar with the area coming from outside of Bloomington or from in 00:54:48.030 --> 00:54:48.860 - Bloomington and 00:54:49.580 --> 00:54:53.380 - Contrast the multi-tenant sign which does serve a different purpose. It's lower 00:54:53.380 --> 00:54:56.540 - primarily for visibility upwards West 3rd Street 00:54:56.540 --> 00:55:01.340 - So we don't we're trying to explain why it's not clutter because it's those purposes don't cross 00:55:01.340 --> 00:55:04.140 - over and the sign provides a complementary function 00:55:04.140 --> 00:55:09.860 - So although the current existing pole sign advertises a single tenant they would 00:55:09.860 --> 00:55:13.740 - you know, we'd like that to be another national anchor store and 00:55:13.740 --> 00:55:17.020 - For whoever long at home is there they're doing well 00:55:17.020 --> 00:55:20.860 - we want them to stay we can't take that pole sign down and 00:55:20.860 --> 00:55:24.940 - Expect that then to continue to do well and nor can we fill that space 00:55:24.940 --> 00:55:29.020 - It's gonna be a big empty space if we can't get somebody else in there is what our thinking is 00:55:29.020 --> 00:55:30.300 - because we need that 00:55:30.300 --> 00:55:35.070 - That's one of their important checkboxes if they if they're looking at different places and they 00:55:35.070 --> 00:55:37.620 - want to have I don't want to believe that 00:55:37.620 --> 00:55:42.260 - Believe at that point, but I think you know it is that if we want them to come here 00:55:42.260 --> 00:55:45.940 - Then we have to kind of provide them some of these things such as signage 00:55:45.940 --> 00:55:50.200 - So I'm gonna stop there. I would like to reserve the balance of my time 00:55:50.200 --> 00:55:54.980 - Thank you for hearing from me and I'll invite up another one from the petitioner to speak. Thanks 00:55:54.980 --> 00:56:09.260 - What's the time we have left for them, please 00:56:11.740 --> 00:56:16.880 - Nine half minutes. Are you going to speak now? Okay, go ahead. We'll keep the clock running. They 00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:17.000 - came 00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:22.220 - Gabriel made a point that I want to clarify here and a picture 00:56:52.220 --> 00:56:54.220 - I 00:56:54.220 --> 00:57:02.520 - Want to catch them up on how we got there it started a long time ago 00:57:02.520 --> 00:57:10.640 - Eric Grulick and Jackie scan and said we were not allowed to keep our pylon sign when can't Kmart 00:57:10.640 --> 00:57:11.420 - left and 00:57:11.420 --> 00:57:15.340 - They were adamant and then I had to get 00:57:15.340 --> 00:57:18.700 - Philippa Guthrie who was legal 00:57:20.100 --> 00:57:22.180 - counsel for the city to tell him 00:57:22.180 --> 00:57:28.780 - Finally, I could finally got into a meeting and they told Eric and Jackie we do have the right to 00:57:28.780 --> 00:57:29.820 - keep that sign 00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:31.780 - Okay 00:57:31.780 --> 00:57:33.660 - then 00:57:33.660 --> 00:57:37.500 - For many months months and months and months before Cove it started 00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:43.440 - We asked Eric and Jackie we had the right it was a 00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:48.460 - PCD to have this multi-tenant sign. I said we have the right 00:57:49.180 --> 00:57:54.000 - Eric and Jackie said no, you don't I said it's very clear. It's in the PCD here 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:59.370 - It is in black and black and white. No, you don't I said, yes, we do. I said, will you listen to my 00:57:59.370 --> 00:58:00.720 - attorney? No, we won't 00:58:00.720 --> 00:58:07.140 - Okay, so it went on and on and on finally. They were gonna cancel 00:58:07.140 --> 00:58:09.820 - which they did expired the 00:58:09.820 --> 00:58:17.520 - PCDs and the PUDs around town and I finally they finally get a hold of me said, oh you were right 00:58:18.700 --> 00:58:23.940 - You do have the right to have that and we're gonna give it to you while while they're working 00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:24.880 - remote 00:58:24.880 --> 00:58:28.180 - We're crippled because of kovat 00:58:28.180 --> 00:58:35.340 - Here your permit here it here it is right now and you got six months lots of luck 00:58:35.340 --> 00:58:39.180 - So that's how we got got here. Okay now 00:58:39.180 --> 00:58:45.970 - The merits I've already spoken about the merits and the merits is the last time they talked about 00:58:45.970 --> 00:58:46.940 - sign clutter 00:58:47.260 --> 00:58:52.260 - It's not there. We just took that photo. It's not shopped. It's not doctored up 00:58:52.260 --> 00:58:56.740 - It's not there and this thing is expansive as it could be 00:58:56.740 --> 00:59:00.300 - blocks and blocks of shopping center and 00:59:00.300 --> 00:59:05.170 - Very few of the tenants and one last point that I want to make very few the tenants are on there a 00:59:05.170 --> 00:59:06.340 - lot of the 00:59:06.340 --> 00:59:08.340 - small tenants to the small business owners 00:59:08.340 --> 00:59:14.810 - They don't have all the social media to direct you to where they're going and the national credit 00:59:14.810 --> 00:59:15.460 - tenants 00:59:15.500 --> 00:59:20.420 - You don't have signage. That's one of their slots that you can't fill you can't fill the slot 00:59:20.420 --> 00:59:24.300 - They're not coming and now Joanne fabrics went BK 00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:32.420 - Now they got to try to fill that spot. Okay, not the easiest things to do here. Okay, so 00:59:32.420 --> 00:59:38.500 - Instead of overly signed it's under under signage and 00:59:39.420 --> 00:59:45.740 - As Dan pointed out he made a great point the at-home sign. That's an i-69 sign 00:59:45.740 --> 00:59:51.780 - the multi-tenant sign is where people on 3rd Street going east and west and 00:59:51.780 --> 00:59:55.980 - Discover all the shops that are there. So I think 00:59:55.980 --> 00:59:58.980 - To be fair 00:59:58.980 --> 01:00:05.240 - And to make a wrong right that condition needs to be removed. Thank you 01:00:07.660 --> 01:00:09.660 - And what's the time now 01:00:09.660 --> 01:00:13.260 - Five and a half minutes, okay 01:00:13.260 --> 01:00:16.380 - Will you be reserving the rest or will they be more? 01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:20.060 - Sure, absolutely. Go ahead and start the clock, please 01:00:20.060 --> 01:00:22.660 - Okay 01:00:22.660 --> 01:00:27.940 - Yeah, don't worry. I'll be brief. I'm just echoing kind of the things Dave said the importance of a 01:00:27.940 --> 01:00:34.460 - Having a as many pile on signs you can have I am I'm a partner with Dave on this property 01:00:34.460 --> 01:00:40.260 - But I also own other shopping centers throughout the country. So for example in Hobart, Indiana 01:00:40.260 --> 01:00:43.780 - You know, we have four pile on signs. It's a bigger center 01:00:43.780 --> 01:00:48.260 - But it's it's so important because when you negotiate with the tenant, that's one of the key things 01:00:48.260 --> 01:00:48.700 - they want 01:00:48.700 --> 01:00:51.660 - they want to be on the pile on sign for 01:00:51.660 --> 01:00:56.540 - Visibility because it's very important their business, you know 01:00:56.540 --> 01:01:02.330 - Obviously these people have Joanne fabrics now vacant and I guarantee you that any any help they 01:01:02.330 --> 01:01:04.100 - can get getting the right signage 01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:09.640 - Is going to be very key because they sit down at the other end. So they need that exposure 01:01:09.640 --> 01:01:11.580 - also 01:01:11.580 --> 01:01:15.220 - You know, hopefully at home, you know, like hopefully at a home business 01:01:15.220 --> 01:01:21.400 - Stays in business forever, but down the road. We don't know if it'll be one user like them or could 01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:21.620 - be 01:01:21.620 --> 01:01:28.280 - Two or three different users and so any pile on sign of that nature is very important 01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:31.420 - And obviously the shops right now, I think are doing pretty well 01:01:31.420 --> 01:01:36.460 - But again, I think you know for the businesses that just besides 01:01:36.460 --> 01:01:39.140 - Social media, it's a very important 01:01:39.140 --> 01:01:45.160 - Advertisement and presence. So I want to be brief, but hopefully you'll consider what we're trying 01:01:45.160 --> 01:01:46.980 - to do here. Thank you very much 01:01:46.980 --> 01:01:49.660 - Thank you 01:01:49.660 --> 01:01:51.660 - Again the timing left, please. Oh 01:01:51.660 --> 01:01:57.500 - There's more sorry, please continue 01:01:57.500 --> 01:01:59.500 - The 01:01:59.500 --> 01:02:06.160 - Clocks running so let me know I'll be real quick cool time starts 01:02:06.160 --> 01:02:09.820 - Yeah, so just want to kind of go back off what these guys are saying 01:02:09.820 --> 01:02:14.940 - I mean retail leasing it's it's tough, especially for an eighty six thousand square foot box 01:02:14.940 --> 01:02:22.460 - There's you know this many users for you know, a giant box like this or a big big space and then 01:02:22.460 --> 01:02:23.860 - you know for us to fill 01:02:23.860 --> 01:02:25.340 - it 01:02:25.340 --> 01:02:27.540 - Which is I think what the community would want, you know 01:02:27.540 --> 01:02:31.520 - I think we look at the UDO and kind of be very precise on it 01:02:31.520 --> 01:02:33.520 - But you know, does the community want a big? 01:02:33.520 --> 01:02:39.580 - vacant building in the future and and we we did this with the former March on the east side where 01:02:39.580 --> 01:02:40.060 - you know 01:02:40.060 --> 01:02:43.440 - We had a lot of homeless people hanging out and even here behind the building 01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:48.100 - We had a big homeless camp and I think when you look at it does the community want, you know a 01:02:48.100 --> 01:02:49.540 - thriving retail 01:02:49.820 --> 01:02:54.820 - Community and I think the answer is yes, and and I think you know the signage will help us be able 01:02:54.820 --> 01:02:55.540 - to you know 01:02:55.540 --> 01:03:00.900 - Maximize the the possibilities here and and if we don't have signage then unfortunately, you know 01:03:00.900 --> 01:03:01.940 - our chances of you know 01:03:01.940 --> 01:03:03.900 - Having good tenants are very you know go lower 01:03:03.900 --> 01:03:08.200 - so we're asking you to help us out and you know try to make a you know good building for the 01:03:08.200 --> 01:03:08.740 - community and 01:03:08.740 --> 01:03:14.390 - That's I think the main goal of what everybody's trying to do is be good for the community. So that's 01:03:14.390 --> 01:03:14.980 - what I got 01:03:14.980 --> 01:03:16.980 - I 01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:23.420 - 235 will hold the clock there for him, please 01:03:23.420 --> 01:03:32.820 - All right at this point are there any board questions or comments before we go to public 01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:38.540 - To one one for staff and one for the petitioner 01:03:38.540 --> 01:03:42.660 - Coming back to being at that meeting on that board 01:03:43.300 --> 01:03:48.980 - I think that was my first year at the BZA. Is this true? There's no minutes from that meeting 01:03:48.980 --> 01:03:51.220 - that they're 01:03:51.220 --> 01:03:56.470 - Assessing that is that is correct. There are no written minutes. We minutes we discovered that as 01:03:56.470 --> 01:03:58.660 - we were preparing for this hearing 01:03:58.660 --> 01:04:03.820 - We're in the process of creating the minutes from the from the recording 01:04:03.820 --> 01:04:07.260 - so it was 01:04:07.660 --> 01:04:13.030 - Unfortunate for the petitioner and staff to have to read through the whole or listen to the whole 01:04:13.030 --> 01:04:14.980 - recording as opposed to just reading the minutes 01:04:14.980 --> 01:04:18.440 - But we're working on working on that. Thank you 01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:22.480 - Yeah, why are we hearing this two and a half years later? 01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:27.740 - What why is it taking it this long to I thought this was a done deal 01:04:27.740 --> 01:04:31.260 - Two and a half years ago, so we're circling back to this 01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:36.140 - The question is why you had two and a half years to do this. Why are we hearing this now? 01:04:36.180 --> 01:04:40.900 - Well, I think there might be one easy answer. I don't know if it's acceptable 01:04:40.900 --> 01:04:44.140 - I know that you did put a lot of work in preparing for the last time 01:04:44.140 --> 01:04:47.980 - This was heard this BZA put a lot of work in hearing these petitions tonight 01:04:47.980 --> 01:04:53.900 - One reason is that we're allowed to under the procedures to ask for a relief from a variance 01:04:53.900 --> 01:04:56.220 - and 01:04:56.220 --> 01:04:58.020 - there was 01:04:58.020 --> 01:05:01.700 - As far as we know that we asked that question when we work with planning before 01:05:02.260 --> 01:05:08.220 - How in if we could file this variance and they said that we could file this application and so that's 01:05:08.220 --> 01:05:09.440 - that's why we're here 01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:12.260 - As far as why we didn't build it 01:05:12.260 --> 01:05:18.780 - I I don't know that I could explain that other than that first condition was really not 01:05:18.780 --> 01:05:24.420 - Okay for us because we don't want to give up what we're allowed to currently have 01:05:24.420 --> 01:05:28.660 - I don't know that there are many folks with large signage opportunities 01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:35.220 - Who would be willing to give them up for a small sign? That's gonna serve multi tenants. So I 01:05:35.220 --> 01:05:41.000 - Don't know if that's the answer as far as why I didn't get filed right after or why we waited a 01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:41.940 - year and a half 01:05:41.940 --> 01:05:46.100 - But it was just a very difficult condition that that caused for us 01:05:46.100 --> 01:05:51.630 - Okay, I appreciate that. I'd actually like to hear from Dave as well because I think this is a this 01:05:51.630 --> 01:05:53.460 - is an efficiency question to me 01:05:53.460 --> 01:05:55.920 - You guys are talking about efficiency. This seems 01:05:56.940 --> 01:06:01.140 - Inefficient that we're we're sitting on this this long and now we have to go back to it 01:06:01.140 --> 01:06:06.980 - So yeah, if you could just wait one thing that I did forget to say and I want to thank the BZA 01:06:06.980 --> 01:06:08.260 - members for the oh 01:06:08.260 --> 01:06:12.940 - To go off. Let's stay on the let's stay on our procedure, please 01:06:12.940 --> 01:06:20.700 - Voted that I think I ended indicated that we couldn't move forward because I just can't give up 01:06:20.700 --> 01:06:21.060 - that 01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:29.140 - sign and I got up with the owners of the Whitehall Plaza who had changed the Whitehall Plaza 01:06:29.140 --> 01:06:32.420 - owners changed and it's a 01:06:32.420 --> 01:06:36.820 - Lot of chiefs a 01:06:36.820 --> 01:06:39.620 - Lot of chiefs this guy's in charge that guy's in charge 01:06:39.620 --> 01:06:46.100 - So I kept working through it and I said I like to do and I also thought think you can answer that 01:06:46.100 --> 01:06:46.900 - question if 01:06:46.900 --> 01:06:51.380 - There's a you can't go back for a certain period of time 01:06:51.380 --> 01:06:52.820 - I think it's 01:06:52.820 --> 01:06:58.230 - So many months. I don't I don't know what the answer but you can't immediately go back. So we lost 01:06:58.230 --> 01:06:59.320 - some time there 01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:05.530 - When the shopping center changed hands, we lost some time there and I said we really need to visit 01:07:05.530 --> 01:07:06.180 - this and 01:07:06.180 --> 01:07:11.140 - They the new owners who Daniel was 01:07:11.140 --> 01:07:14.020 - representing 01:07:14.020 --> 01:07:19.300 - They said they need signage for their tenants and then 01:07:20.500 --> 01:07:22.840 - They don't have it. They need it. I said 01:07:22.840 --> 01:07:26.360 - Okay, let's go another another round 01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:32.390 - Could it have been brought sooner probably but I think the changeover of ownership had a lot to do 01:07:32.390 --> 01:07:33.140 - with that 01:07:33.140 --> 01:07:35.880 - So I hope that answers your question. Okay. Yeah, thank you 01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:45.480 - Okay, why don't we do this then let's go to the public 01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:50.380 - For comment before we have an additional discussion time for that 01:07:50.380 --> 01:07:52.980 - Do we have anyone here in the chambers to like to discuss? 01:07:52.980 --> 01:07:55.100 - or 01:07:55.100 --> 01:07:58.180 - Put onto the record any comments about this petition, please 01:07:58.180 --> 01:08:00.860 - Go ahead and sign in 01:08:00.860 --> 01:08:04.860 - And as you're signing and I'll let everyone know you'll have five minutes to speak 01:08:04.860 --> 01:08:09.520 - We'll take as many people as would like to address this 01:08:09.520 --> 01:08:12.860 - after that it will be back to 01:08:12.860 --> 01:08:15.660 - The 01:08:15.660 --> 01:08:19.340 - petitioner to speak before we go to the board for action 01:08:19.980 --> 01:08:24.510 - The state your name Tom Orman. Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the 01:08:24.510 --> 01:08:25.540 - truth the whole truth and nothing 01:08:25.540 --> 01:08:31.330 - But the truth absolutely and you have five minutes. Yeah. Yeah. I operate a lot of real estate here 01:08:31.330 --> 01:08:32.340 - in Bloomington, Indiana 01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:35.180 - Speaking. Yep. Sorry. Is that better? 01:08:35.180 --> 01:08:37.780 - Yeah 01:08:37.780 --> 01:08:42.130 - anyway, I operate a lot of real estate here in Bloomington, Indiana and some of you're familiar 01:08:42.130 --> 01:08:42.940 - with me, but I 01:08:42.940 --> 01:08:49.220 - agree with the things that were saying signage is important for these tenants and if you ask me 01:08:49.220 --> 01:08:49.500 - there's 01:08:49.500 --> 01:08:54.420 - There's not enough signage. There's I don't know how many tenants. I think one of these petitioners 01:08:54.420 --> 01:08:54.900 - should have 01:08:54.900 --> 01:09:00.060 - Mentioned that without signage and you know for the older people 01:09:00.060 --> 01:09:05.780 - Trying to find locations in these big shopping centers. I think signage is important 01:09:05.780 --> 01:09:11.500 - I think it's important to the businesses like it's important to the older generation to find these 01:09:11.500 --> 01:09:12.140 - locations 01:09:12.140 --> 01:09:16.460 - Not like the younger generation who uses the Google Maps to get everywhere they go. So 01:09:16.460 --> 01:09:19.340 - I'm in support of 01:09:19.340 --> 01:09:21.700 - the petitioner, I think it's well 01:09:21.700 --> 01:09:25.180 - needed and documented and it makes sense that 01:09:25.180 --> 01:09:33.820 - I've got I've got this similar situation on 3rd Street and I have to create a list of tenants and I'm 01:09:33.820 --> 01:09:33.980 - like 01:09:33.980 --> 01:09:36.420 - Well, if they move out I'll give you a signage, you know 01:09:36.420 --> 01:09:40.460 - And that's really hard to manage because then the tenants are thinking, you know 01:09:40.460 --> 01:09:44.060 - The ones who's been there longer have has the signs, you know 01:09:44.060 --> 01:09:47.660 - And it's really kind of unfair when you're you're everybody wants a sign 01:09:47.740 --> 01:09:52.310 - Everybody wants to be recognized on 3rd Street and I think that's very important for business in 01:09:52.310 --> 01:09:52.900 - our community 01:09:52.900 --> 01:09:54.980 - So that's all I have to say. Thank you for your time 01:09:54.980 --> 01:09:57.300 - Thank you 01:09:57.300 --> 01:09:59.900 - Anyone else in chambers who'd like to speak to this petition? 01:09:59.900 --> 01:10:04.750 - Is there anyone online? If so, please raise your hand. It looks like there's two. Is that what I'm 01:10:04.750 --> 01:10:05.920 - reading correctly? 01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:11.900 - Two comments from before it was someone asking about when another petition would come up 01:10:11.900 --> 01:10:18.330 - So if you are online and you would like to speak you can use the raise hand function or you can 01:10:18.330 --> 01:10:18.940 - send a chat 01:10:18.940 --> 01:10:21.100 - Indicating that you would like to speak 01:10:21.100 --> 01:10:31.060 - Sure sure it's that's unusual once someone steps away, but please go ahead now, please go ahead 01:10:31.060 --> 01:10:35.940 - That's all right. I apologize for that sir. Never been in never been in front of the city here 01:10:35.940 --> 01:10:38.940 - First of all, my name is Greg Adams 01:10:38.940 --> 01:10:41.820 - I'm the store director of fresh time on the west side of Bloomington 01:10:42.740 --> 01:10:46.940 - You test me you're about to give me the truth old truth and nothing but the truth. Yes, sir. Okay, 01:10:46.940 --> 01:10:47.220 - good 01:10:47.220 --> 01:10:53.150 - Just myself. I'm I run the fresh time on the west side. Like I said, I've been in the grocery 01:10:53.150 --> 01:10:54.980 - business for 34 years 01:10:54.980 --> 01:11:00.530 - Most of them probably 30 of the 34 is where I've been in with management a lot of those years here 01:11:00.530 --> 01:11:02.100 - and Bloomington like with 01:11:02.100 --> 01:11:07.800 - Marsh previously before they went under so to myself and a lot of you know, a lot of my colleagues 01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:12.100 - It's important to have a signage, you know, I've been in some businesses where the sign has been 01:11:12.100 --> 01:11:12.600 - destroyed 01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:15.940 - Because of storms or other things obviously and you know 01:11:15.940 --> 01:11:21.450 - You notice those type of things where the signage is not available for a lot of business of people 01:11:21.450 --> 01:11:22.340 - to notice you 01:11:22.340 --> 01:11:26.970 - When you're just driving down 3rd Street, we got some businesses where I'm located over there that 01:11:26.970 --> 01:11:28.140 - don't have signage right now 01:11:28.140 --> 01:11:32.940 - And and the only way that they get recognized is by word-of-mouth or they're going on Facebook or 01:11:32.940 --> 01:11:33.860 - things like that 01:11:33.860 --> 01:11:38.780 - So it's important for the signage to be available for all our local businesses as many as we can 01:11:38.780 --> 01:11:42.380 - I'm not saying that you know, it makes or breaks every business 01:11:42.380 --> 01:11:47.420 - But it definitely helps to have the the signage up for a lot of the smaller businesses and the 01:11:47.420 --> 01:11:49.060 - shopping plazas is near myself 01:11:49.060 --> 01:11:52.620 - And I would think it would help other ones in the community 01:11:52.620 --> 01:11:57.780 - So it's really all that I have to say except I think it's worked for work for the businesses 01:11:57.780 --> 01:12:00.600 - I've been involved with in the past. Thank you. Thank you 01:12:02.660 --> 01:12:09.080 - Okay, so before I do go on to the next next item any other public comment 01:12:09.080 --> 01:12:12.300 - pause for a moment 01:12:12.300 --> 01:12:16.020 - Okay, good with that 01:12:16.020 --> 01:12:20.660 - We will go to before we go to the board for action 01:12:20.660 --> 01:12:24.830 - There's two and a half minutes left for the petitioner. That's a good time to address that point. 01:12:24.830 --> 01:12:25.980 - You have two and a half minutes 01:12:27.860 --> 01:12:34.310 - Thank you. I this is very very brief. I want to thank the board BZA people for approving the 01:12:34.310 --> 01:12:36.340 - Academy Sports Store. We did a 01:12:36.340 --> 01:12:39.840 - two variances 01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:42.100 - It's a first-class 01:12:42.100 --> 01:12:47.720 - Operation, I promise you that I do a first-class job there. It is first-class. I hope you've had 01:12:47.720 --> 01:12:50.240 - time to go into it and 01:12:50.240 --> 01:12:55.580 - See, but we did a lot of work a lot of quality work and I 01:12:56.300 --> 01:12:58.300 - Truly appreciate it, you know 01:12:58.300 --> 01:13:04.980 - Everything that the BZA did it was a nail-biter and all the stories that I told you about 01:13:04.980 --> 01:13:08.260 - That this can go up or down 01:13:08.260 --> 01:13:11.100 - everything was true and 01:13:11.100 --> 01:13:14.540 - At the last minute it was like a pacer 01:13:14.540 --> 01:13:21.590 - three-point shot that they called the two-point shot last night or whenever it was but we but we 01:13:21.590 --> 01:13:22.140 - won 01:13:22.740 --> 01:13:27.780 - That one I appreciate it and this one just from my heart 01:13:27.780 --> 01:13:33.820 - I wish everybody would focus on that aerial view. There's not a proliferation of science 01:13:33.820 --> 01:13:39.340 - It's just not there and a multi-tenant sign is going to do so many of these tenants 01:13:39.340 --> 01:13:45.180 - Good because they need 01:13:45.860 --> 01:13:52.140 - Signage, especially the small tenants really needed and they're just not on the multi-tenant sign 01:13:52.140 --> 01:13:53.340 - that's there now 01:13:53.340 --> 01:13:55.340 - Thank you 01:13:55.340 --> 01:14:01.940 - Could please note for the minutes that Gina Bradford is 01:14:01.940 --> 01:14:07.980 - On the zoom I think and that she is a representative for WH Plaza LLC 01:14:07.980 --> 01:14:12.380 - Just wanted to have that mentioned. I forgot to mention it earlier. Are there any questions? 01:14:12.980 --> 01:14:17.440 - If so, we'll ask you at that time. You have 50 seconds left if you have any other comments 01:14:17.440 --> 01:14:25.930 - Okay, all right, thank you for that it'll come back to the board for comments questions to either 01:14:25.930 --> 01:14:27.040 - petitioner or the staff 01:14:27.040 --> 01:14:30.180 - Before any action is taken 01:14:30.180 --> 01:14:33.100 - Do we have any? 01:14:33.100 --> 01:14:35.500 - Comments or questions 01:14:35.500 --> 01:14:37.500 - I'll start with one. I'll go to the city first 01:14:37.860 --> 01:14:44.020 - The question to the city is if I remember correctly because I I remember that meeting I was there 01:14:44.020 --> 01:14:49.380 - There was some issue about along that third Street corridor there 01:14:49.380 --> 01:14:52.060 - Who owns actually? 01:14:52.060 --> 01:14:57.430 - Is there multiple ownership on that strip mall property that faces the road or is that was single 01:14:57.430 --> 01:14:57.820 - owner? 01:15:02.260 --> 01:15:07.730 - Understanding you correctly along the south side of Thursday. Let's go from from the exit to the 01:15:07.730 --> 01:15:08.620 - interstate to 01:15:08.620 --> 01:15:10.860 - the corner 01:15:10.860 --> 01:15:15.340 - That is the liberty right next to bichettos along that corridor there 01:15:15.340 --> 01:15:18.600 - I thought that when we went through this that there was that there was some 01:15:18.600 --> 01:15:23.810 - Distribution of the ownership along that corridor about who owns exactly what property and what 01:15:23.810 --> 01:15:26.220 - signage went on each property and things like that 01:15:26.220 --> 01:15:28.540 - Yeah, the short version of it is that? 01:15:29.340 --> 01:15:31.980 - The along 3rd Street there are multiple 01:15:31.980 --> 01:15:39.000 - Separately owned properties. So so here in this image up there now, would you actually zoom in a 01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:39.500 - tiny bit? 01:15:39.500 --> 01:15:43.140 - So you can a couple of you weren't on the board at that point 01:15:43.140 --> 01:15:46.260 - But I'm talking about right across the top along 3rd Street, right? 01:15:46.260 --> 01:15:52.400 - Yeah, there was some discussion about who owns what and who gets to have signs so that the the the 01:15:52.400 --> 01:15:53.100 - general 01:15:53.100 --> 01:15:58.300 - Version of the answer is each of those red boxes that you see along there are separate 01:15:58.660 --> 01:16:04.760 - Parcels under separate ownership that have separate allowances for signs. So 01:16:04.760 --> 01:16:10.020 - You know next to the proposed multi-tenant sign that was approved by the variance before 01:16:10.020 --> 01:16:16.930 - Chipotle and outback steakhouse. Those are different ownership from each other and different from 01:16:16.930 --> 01:16:17.880 - the petitioners 01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:20.660 - They can have signage. In fact, Chipotle is 01:16:20.660 --> 01:16:28.080 - Either just put up a new sign or but the point being that each one of those has their own signage 01:16:28.580 --> 01:16:30.740 - Correct and Bob Evans is separate 01:16:30.740 --> 01:16:36.420 - Correct from the petitioner and all the way down as you go across there now what we provided I 01:16:36.420 --> 01:16:37.460 - believe and again 01:16:37.460 --> 01:16:39.460 - I'm asking you because it was three years ago 01:16:39.460 --> 01:16:46.450 - That little section where we allowed for that sign to be put on third Street is between those two 01:16:46.450 --> 01:16:47.540 - properties, correct? 01:16:47.540 --> 01:16:53.020 - Yes, okay, and that was essentially giving them third Street frontage of a sign 01:16:53.020 --> 01:16:56.500 - For their property that before they had none 01:16:56.980 --> 01:17:01.260 - They always had frontage. They are that frontage, but they weren't using it 01:17:01.260 --> 01:17:04.060 - They would they didn't have a sign in that frontage, right? 01:17:04.060 --> 01:17:07.380 - But in order to put a sign there they needed to come to us because they already had a sign 01:17:07.380 --> 01:17:12.910 - On their property elsewhere. Yes, and that other sign if I remember correctly is the one that they're 01:17:12.910 --> 01:17:14.540 - talking about the large pull sign 01:17:14.540 --> 01:17:16.540 - that you can see from 69 that's on the 01:17:16.540 --> 01:17:21.380 - That's on the eastern portion of the problem. There's another sign that hasn't come up yet tonight 01:17:21.380 --> 01:17:24.460 - closer to the entrance 01:17:24.460 --> 01:17:26.580 - so right 01:17:26.820 --> 01:17:31.100 - Miss Scanlon has her mouse around it if you can see it tiny up there 01:17:31.100 --> 01:17:34.260 - So counting from the right we have Chipotle 01:17:34.260 --> 01:17:40.260 - Okay, where the proposed sign is out back and then Bob Evans and then you see the entrance drive 01:17:40.260 --> 01:17:47.500 - This the there is an existing multi-tenant sign on the petitioner's property that is there. So the 01:17:47.500 --> 01:17:49.100 - the shopping center 01:17:50.380 --> 01:17:56.850 - Currently has a multi-tenant sign there that some of their tenants have space on other tenants don't 01:17:56.850 --> 01:17:57.540 - have space in that sign 01:17:57.540 --> 01:18:03.300 - there's also the at home that the existing pole sign right that has at home and I that maybe 01:18:03.300 --> 01:18:09.180 - All of this Jackie is that right there? Is that the sign here in the front far, right? 01:18:09.180 --> 01:18:11.340 - Is is that what the at home is at the top of that? 01:18:11.340 --> 01:18:19.180 - They have a sign there then they want to put that other sign has not been built yet the one on 01:18:19.180 --> 01:18:19.940 - third the one that we 01:18:20.140 --> 01:18:24.260 - Provided the variance for and then they have the pole sign. Alright, so I just want to make sure I 01:18:24.260 --> 01:18:25.620 - was I was remembering on it 01:18:25.620 --> 01:18:27.460 - Thank you, Jackie 01:18:27.460 --> 01:18:32.600 - that there was all this issue that their sign sign signs for each of those properties available, 01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:33.100 - etc and 01:18:33.100 --> 01:18:39.270 - If I remember correctly to refresh those not here is part of what we had agreed to was essentially 01:18:39.270 --> 01:18:40.940 - a sign swap down the road 01:18:40.940 --> 01:18:47.600 - Put this up but down the road if at home leaves down goes that sign to get rid of that big pole 01:18:47.600 --> 01:18:48.020 - sign 01:18:48.020 --> 01:18:53.230 - So it comes into compliance. So essentially it was like a swap. We'll give you 3rd Street take away 01:18:53.230 --> 01:18:53.620 - 69 01:18:53.620 --> 01:18:55.900 - That's kind of how I remember it 01:18:55.900 --> 01:18:56.940 - I don't know if you remember it Tim 01:18:56.940 --> 01:19:00.780 - But it was I know that there was a lot of arguments about where to put signs were not to put signs 01:19:00.780 --> 01:19:04.340 - There was a lot of arguments about who owned what property etc 01:19:04.340 --> 01:19:09.830 - And this battle has been going on for a long long time and we felt that we put it the rest which is 01:19:09.830 --> 01:19:10.260 - I think 01:19:10.260 --> 01:19:14.700 - Your comment so that was why I wanted to clarify that with the city 01:19:15.380 --> 01:19:20.670 - The next question was what's changed and you asked that question essentially Tim and that was what's 01:19:20.670 --> 01:19:21.100 - changed 01:19:21.100 --> 01:19:24.970 - Why did it take so long? Why did you come back? And I believe that you've answered that in terms of 01:19:24.970 --> 01:19:25.420 - process 01:19:25.420 --> 01:19:26.900 - Okay 01:19:26.900 --> 01:19:28.760 - The other thing though is I would love it 01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:32.520 - If you want to grab that sign that you're talking about that aerial and turn around and show it to 01:19:32.520 --> 01:19:32.800 - folks 01:19:32.800 --> 01:19:34.940 - I did have a comment about that sign 01:19:34.940 --> 01:19:40.580 - Now I'm gonna use a little bit of humor. So just bear with me here. Go ahead and let people see it 01:19:41.020 --> 01:19:47.520 - I'm going to venture a guess that 100 motorist or pedestrians that walk along this area never see 01:19:47.520 --> 01:19:49.300 - this property from 400 feet up 01:19:49.300 --> 01:19:55.900 - So I do appreciate that comment about it doesn't look like sign clud being cluttered, you know 01:19:55.900 --> 01:19:56.400 - aerial 01:19:56.400 --> 01:20:00.140 - But nobody that we're talking about is gonna see that property from that side 01:20:00.140 --> 01:20:02.560 - They're gonna see it from that side, which is the next one 01:20:02.560 --> 01:20:05.820 - So I did want to say it's kind of a they're gonna see it from the ground 01:20:05.820 --> 01:20:10.060 - They're not gonna see it from 400 feet up. So I did want to just point out it may not look like 01:20:10.780 --> 01:20:16.820 - I wanted to address your point that it's not sign clutter. It's not from 400 feet up. We're talking 01:20:16.820 --> 01:20:17.480 - about that sign 01:20:17.480 --> 01:20:20.720 - From the ground that's clutter 01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:27.210 - I'm saying there it is because that's where most people see it from so I did want to just address 01:20:27.210 --> 01:20:28.140 - your comment because 01:20:28.140 --> 01:20:33.180 - You a couple of times you mentioned that this aerial shows that there's no clutter 01:20:33.180 --> 01:20:36.020 - People don't see that 01:20:36.340 --> 01:20:41.470 - Streetscape from that angle that's 400 feet in the air. They see it from that angle and that's the 01:20:41.470 --> 01:20:43.020 - clutter that we're talking about 01:20:43.020 --> 01:20:47.730 - So I wanted to just address that point. This is what we're talking about. Here's this is the 01:20:47.730 --> 01:20:48.100 - clutter 01:20:48.100 --> 01:20:54.300 - Yeah, I see one two three four or five signs so 01:20:54.300 --> 01:21:00.690 - There's clutter here, which is the area we're talking about so I just just want to make a point 01:21:00.690 --> 01:21:01.740 - there, okay 01:21:01.740 --> 01:21:03.740 - I 01:21:03.740 --> 01:21:17.420 - Brought the sign there's clutter here, and I did want to just make that point 01:21:17.420 --> 01:21:21.540 - It's a spurious argument to show me something 400 feet up and say there's no clutter 01:21:21.540 --> 01:21:30.020 - Yeah, I just wanted to make it I know I just want to make sure it's clear that you understand why I 01:21:30.020 --> 01:21:30.860 - say there is clutter 01:21:31.260 --> 01:21:36.020 - Okay, you've been you've been in front of us enough that you know so like I said 01:21:36.020 --> 01:21:36.980 - It's a little bit of humor 01:21:36.980 --> 01:21:41.580 - But the point being that I do want people to focus on this is what we see on a daily basis 01:21:41.580 --> 01:21:45.340 - And that's what we're trying to address so it's a it's a serious underlying point 01:21:45.340 --> 01:21:48.660 - Which is that's what we're trying to address here on the far, right? 01:21:48.660 --> 01:21:54.740 - Sure, yeah 01:21:54.740 --> 01:21:57.900 - Yeah, I'll look at it going as well 01:21:57.900 --> 01:21:59.900 - I 01:21:59.900 --> 01:22:14.840 - Say that into the mic I see where you're talking about saying into the mic so we have it on record, 01:22:14.840 --> 01:22:16.080 - please 01:22:16.080 --> 01:22:23.820 - The B tenants which is the inline tenants I'd venture to say 01:22:26.300 --> 01:22:32.390 - Two thirds your bedroom don't have any signage on third Street at least that many I would venture 01:22:32.390 --> 01:22:33.540 - to say so 01:22:33.540 --> 01:22:39.080 - When when you're talking about Bob Evans, yeah, they're an out parcel when you're talking about 01:22:39.080 --> 01:22:39.500 - Hardee's 01:22:39.500 --> 01:22:45.220 - Yeah, they were not parcel Chipotle. Yeah, they were not parcel these guys 01:22:45.220 --> 01:22:49.180 - Shows 01:22:49.180 --> 01:22:53.340 - that where they're at they are they are not on third Street and 01:22:54.140 --> 01:22:59.840 - signs are important to most of these signs this multi-tenant sign and 01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:02.380 - Daniel's client 01:23:02.380 --> 01:23:06.700 - Tell you what are gonna go to the B tenants that have nothing now 01:23:06.700 --> 01:23:11.980 - So the vibrancy of a three big city block 01:23:11.980 --> 01:23:18.460 - Shopping center is important not just today at homes there. I'm doing okay 01:23:18.460 --> 01:23:23.020 - They got a okay. I get your I get your point. So I don't want to belabor that 01:23:23.020 --> 01:23:28.170 - I just the other thing is I don't think that you're gonna be able to fit all of the B tenants on 01:23:28.170 --> 01:23:29.580 - the sign that you're 01:23:29.580 --> 01:23:34.200 - You'll get more but you're not getting them all so someone will be left out 01:23:34.200 --> 01:23:42.940 - Sure, you can you can certainly petition for that, of course, we love seeing you here 01:23:42.940 --> 01:23:48.540 - Then I do want to go on to I'm not sure who from the petitioner can address this 01:23:48.540 --> 01:23:51.900 - but is there anything stopping you from getting the the 01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:54.500 - sign permit now 01:23:54.500 --> 01:24:04.860 - Now specifically what would be preventing you thank you, I think the answer to your question was in 01:24:04.860 --> 01:24:07.180 - the notice of approval which is 01:24:07.180 --> 01:24:13.500 - We have to remove the existing pole sign when that tenant changes once you get the sign permit 01:24:13.500 --> 01:24:18.580 - Now what I'm asking is right now you have until August I believe it is 01:24:19.340 --> 01:24:22.860 - Under the current variance to get your sign permit, right? 01:24:22.860 --> 01:24:25.300 - All right, if they get the sign permit 01:24:25.300 --> 01:24:27.660 - Does that mean the other sign has to come down? 01:24:27.660 --> 01:24:29.460 - when that 01:24:29.460 --> 01:24:33.880 - When that not at that time only when at home changes hands 01:24:33.880 --> 01:24:39.350 - It goes into a different business correct. So with that understanding is there anything preventing 01:24:39.350 --> 01:24:41.060 - you from getting the sign permit now? 01:24:41.060 --> 01:24:43.220 - Yes 01:24:43.220 --> 01:24:45.220 - we don't want to 01:24:45.340 --> 01:24:52.020 - Remove something that we are allowed to have as an existing non-conforming pole sign did I'm sorry 01:24:52.020 --> 01:24:56.000 - Just did I misunderstand the city? Are they allowed to keep that sign so long as that home is in 01:24:56.000 --> 01:24:56.780 - that business? 01:24:56.780 --> 01:24:59.980 - Correct even with the sign permit 01:24:59.980 --> 01:25:05.500 - Correct. Okay, what's preventing you from getting your sign permit then? I think you 01:25:05.500 --> 01:25:10.940 - Already know the answer to the question unless I'm misunderstanding. We don't want to violate an 01:25:10.940 --> 01:25:11.660 - ordinance 01:25:11.660 --> 01:25:14.400 - By putting the sign up now 01:25:14.400 --> 01:25:20.120 - And then whenever at home leaves we would have we will be in violation. So we don't want to do that 01:25:20.120 --> 01:25:20.700 - Okay 01:25:20.700 --> 01:25:22.700 - So the reason I'm asking I want to make sure 01:25:22.700 --> 01:25:27.640 - That we're all clear because the reason I'm asking is there's no basis to give you an extension 01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:30.200 - When you're able to get the sign permit 01:25:30.200 --> 01:25:36.670 - So there's there's no hardship other than you disagree with the outcome of you would have to give 01:25:36.670 --> 01:25:37.760 - up that sign down the road 01:25:37.760 --> 01:25:39.760 - if that home leaves which was a 01:25:39.760 --> 01:25:42.520 - Variance that was granted three years ago 01:25:43.640 --> 01:25:48.100 - But the condition hasn't been removed yet, so we don't know when you're gonna make that decision 01:25:48.100 --> 01:25:51.340 - We would just want to if you were going to grant that variance 01:25:51.340 --> 01:25:55.240 - We just think it would be reasonable to ask you to give us a reasonable amount of time 01:25:55.240 --> 01:25:58.900 - We don't think we need up to two years as I said, but just a little bit of time 01:25:58.900 --> 01:26:03.440 - If you think a lesser amount of time is reasonable, we're not going to argue with that 01:26:03.440 --> 01:26:08.540 - But we're not going to apply for that permit if that condition is a part of it 01:26:08.540 --> 01:26:12.400 - We don't want to waste anybody's time because we're not going to build that stuff. Okay 01:26:12.400 --> 01:26:15.840 - You made that you've made that very clear that answers my question. Okay. Thank you 01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:23.650 - This is for the staff. I just want to make sure I fully appreciate the previous agreement. I think 01:26:23.650 --> 01:26:25.320 - I do but essentially 01:26:25.320 --> 01:26:28.960 - New sign goes up 01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:31.960 - Pull sign stays 01:26:31.960 --> 01:26:35.120 - The condition is that if in the future 01:26:35.120 --> 01:26:37.800 - the at-home space is 01:26:37.800 --> 01:26:40.240 - Leased to new tenant 01:26:41.200 --> 01:26:46.180 - The new tenant doesn't get the benefit of the pull sign because it has to come down. Is that 01:26:46.180 --> 01:26:46.580 - correct? 01:26:46.580 --> 01:26:50.440 - and so really what the petitioners argument is 01:26:50.440 --> 01:26:53.880 - These are two different thing. It's like I 01:26:53.880 --> 01:26:57.560 - Mean I would look at it this way. I 01:26:57.560 --> 01:27:04.320 - Mean I can fully appreciate that you're trying to mitigate potential risk or at least to mitigate 01:27:04.320 --> 01:27:07.560 - Issues should you have to? 01:27:07.560 --> 01:27:09.920 - Seek a new tenant 01:27:10.800 --> 01:27:12.600 - I'm 01:27:12.600 --> 01:27:14.600 - Not your lawyer 01:27:14.600 --> 01:27:17.120 - But I would think that 01:27:17.120 --> 01:27:23.000 - That would be appropriate time to talk about changes because it seems like the benefit of the new 01:27:23.000 --> 01:27:25.640 - pole sign or the monument sign now 01:27:25.640 --> 01:27:28.640 - Is fairly significant? 01:27:28.640 --> 01:27:31.720 - for your other tenants 01:27:31.720 --> 01:27:34.560 - so I'm 01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:36.640 - the other comment I 01:27:36.640 --> 01:27:39.320 - went around in 01:27:39.680 --> 01:27:44.020 - 2000 when this zoning ordinance was adopted 01:27:44.020 --> 01:27:48.320 - but what kind of strikes me about it is the 01:27:48.320 --> 01:27:52.760 - You know, we lump all retail 01:27:52.760 --> 01:27:56.600 - into employment zones and 01:27:56.600 --> 01:28:01.280 - I don't know if that's standard practice and in the industry now 01:28:01.280 --> 01:28:06.600 - But my head when I think employment zones, I don't think 01:28:06.600 --> 01:28:09.640 - major commercial 01:28:10.120 --> 01:28:14.360 - retail sites and all the illustrations that are in the UDO 01:28:14.360 --> 01:28:19.000 - For all the different zones have a very standard kind of look-and-feel 01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:22.040 - into the design 01:28:22.040 --> 01:28:24.240 - considerations and 01:28:24.240 --> 01:28:25.880 - none of them 01:28:25.880 --> 01:28:27.880 - really reflect a 01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:30.080 - very legitimate 01:28:30.080 --> 01:28:37.560 - business use in our community of these larger sale scale commercial areas and 01:28:38.960 --> 01:28:40.960 - I don't know why 01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:46.040 - There's our ordinance was written the way it is but it just seems odd that 01:28:46.040 --> 01:28:52.520 - there's no reflection no language that really reflects the reality of 01:28:52.520 --> 01:28:55.960 - large commercial retail sites 01:28:55.960 --> 01:29:01.320 - Because I would think we would want to lay out some clear guidance on what we want 01:29:01.320 --> 01:29:04.320 - in areas that are 01:29:04.320 --> 01:29:06.400 - radically different uses 01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:12.760 - Then quote-unquote employment properties. I would say the other observation 01:29:12.760 --> 01:29:15.520 - Unless I missed it 01:29:15.520 --> 01:29:22.760 - There's really no reflection in our zoning ordinance a UDO of the reality of I 69 01:29:22.760 --> 01:29:28.170 - And I don't know when it was finished through. I don't remember when it was finished the 01:29:28.170 --> 01:29:29.080 - construction through 01:29:29.080 --> 01:29:34.440 - Bloomington, but that just seems like a huge oversight that we're not really thinking about 01:29:34.880 --> 01:29:36.880 - that massively important 01:29:36.880 --> 01:29:40.120 - valuable piece of infrastructure and 01:29:40.120 --> 01:29:48.440 - You know, we don't really we treat every corridor as if it's the same and I would argue that I 69 01:29:48.440 --> 01:29:49.560 - is quite different than 01:29:49.560 --> 01:29:53.960 - You know each third street. So anyway, those are just comments 01:29:53.960 --> 01:30:00.000 - I though the other comment is that you know, the BZA is always stuck in these weird positions where 01:30:01.120 --> 01:30:05.160 - The code is code, you know, and we're kind of it is what it is 01:30:05.160 --> 01:30:10.780 - We don't get to rewrite it even if I have, you know strong feelings about deficiencies 01:30:10.780 --> 01:30:15.940 - so I just want to couch any future actions based on what our 01:30:15.940 --> 01:30:19.920 - Constraints are interpreted in terms of interpreting the code 01:30:19.920 --> 01:30:26.460 - Yeah, and I think that's kind of where that question about what's stopping from getting the sign 01:30:26.460 --> 01:30:28.620 - permit because the reality is 01:30:29.560 --> 01:30:34.770 - You know, you have the ability right now to maximize what's at your disposal based on what we've 01:30:34.770 --> 01:30:35.880 - already granted 01:30:35.880 --> 01:30:40.000 - But it doesn't appear that it's been that urgent to you 01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:45.320 - if it was really that important to the businesses, I would think that you would have built it and 01:30:45.320 --> 01:30:51.900 - Promoted them. It sounds to me like it's it's that's not the primary reason in your mind 01:30:51.900 --> 01:30:57.580 - It's it's holding on to both signs. It's not about we should do this for the business 01:30:57.580 --> 01:31:02.390 - I want to restate that because if it was important to promote those businesses that other sign 01:31:02.390 --> 01:31:04.140 - would have been built and those other 01:31:04.140 --> 01:31:07.520 - Businesses would have been promoted for three years. That was the whole point 01:31:07.520 --> 01:31:13.720 - Originally when we heard that petition was we need to get our B businesses the smaller businesses 01:31:13.720 --> 01:31:14.960 - out there on 3rd Street 01:31:14.960 --> 01:31:18.880 - They don't need a big pole sign on 69. They need promoted 01:31:18.880 --> 01:31:23.500 - it's hard for me to say that that's what this is really all about when there's been three years 01:31:23.500 --> 01:31:24.620 - that have passed and 01:31:24.840 --> 01:31:28.400 - It's clearly not what this is about or else you'd bite the bullet 01:31:28.400 --> 01:31:33.880 - You would have built the sign and then come back and fought the pole going away when you you know 01:31:33.880 --> 01:31:35.880 - If you would lose at home 01:31:35.880 --> 01:31:39.540 - If the businesses are really that important that sign would have been built 01:31:39.540 --> 01:31:43.820 - In my opinion, I'm stating you my opinion. It that's 01:31:43.820 --> 01:31:50.940 - That's doesn't make sense within your argument. Yeah, absolutely because I'm addressing you on that 01:31:53.920 --> 01:32:00.160 - That they're different ownership of the two parcels within the not out lots 01:32:00.160 --> 01:32:06.450 - I guess backlots so at home has one property owner. That's Bryan rental. That's where the sign is 01:32:06.450 --> 01:32:07.260 - where we're asking 01:32:07.260 --> 01:32:14.640 - WH Plaza owns the other side which one of them changed hands the other the east the west side 01:32:14.640 --> 01:32:19.860 - So this where this sign is the smaller tenants there. He's letting 01:32:20.480 --> 01:32:26.970 - Well idea would be that he would let them put science smaller tenant signage on the multi tenant 01:32:26.970 --> 01:32:27.640 - sign and 01:32:27.640 --> 01:32:31.200 - Our theory and it may be rejected. I understand but 01:32:31.200 --> 01:32:36.560 - Losing the at-home sign in order to put in the multi tenant sign 01:32:36.560 --> 01:32:40.930 - We kind of think that's a huge negative well because it's gonna lose right and that's exactly what 01:32:40.930 --> 01:32:42.560 - I was asked or stating was 01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:48.440 - At home is still there. It's in business and it has been for three years 01:32:48.440 --> 01:32:54.750 - and if you've owned that property and it hasn't changed hands for that sign and it really was 01:32:54.750 --> 01:32:56.200 - important to you to make sure that 01:32:56.200 --> 01:33:00.760 - the entire strip mall that that area of businesses I don't like to call strip mall but that 01:33:00.760 --> 01:33:01.540 - business of 01:33:01.540 --> 01:33:05.800 - Strip of businesses was really that important that sign would have been built in those guys would 01:33:05.800 --> 01:33:06.320 - have been promoted 01:33:06.320 --> 01:33:11.160 - That sign that property didn't change hands that that sign could have been built in that could have 01:33:11.160 --> 01:33:13.040 - promoted those businesses. Okay. Thank you 01:33:13.960 --> 01:33:20.320 - Yeah, sure. Of course. I actually the time line is compressed a little bit more than what you think 01:33:20.320 --> 01:33:22.120 - because I talked to you Jackie 01:33:22.120 --> 01:33:27.800 - Last year and told her that we were going to be coming forth with this. So let's compress it 01:33:27.800 --> 01:33:33.880 - Okay, two years. There you go. Sure. We can use two years. That's 24 months of no signage. Yeah 01:33:33.880 --> 01:33:36.960 - To mr. Fernandez's point 01:33:36.960 --> 01:33:42.180 - He said and to your point and you said well, why don't you come back when the at-home thing? 01:33:42.680 --> 01:33:48.320 - Changes very reasonable to ask. Okay, the the simple answer is every time I 01:33:48.320 --> 01:33:52.280 - can't think of a time that it hasn't been the case, but every time I 01:33:52.280 --> 01:33:55.080 - come to 01:33:55.080 --> 01:33:58.680 - Eric and Jackie and say here's what I want to do. They're gonna 01:33:58.680 --> 01:34:04.740 - Recommend denial denial denial. So you got your back up against the wall 01:34:04.740 --> 01:34:08.280 - Already and we got an eighty seven thousand 01:34:08.880 --> 01:34:13.340 - square foot building that I operate there the at-home store and 01:34:13.340 --> 01:34:21.040 - It's risky business to put my faith and trust into Eric Grulick and Jackie Scanning 01:34:21.040 --> 01:34:26.420 - It would be but let me ask you this when we were you brought up earlier the idea of the action 01:34:26.420 --> 01:34:26.820 - sports 01:34:26.820 --> 01:34:31.680 - And I think you were up for denial you brought up moments ago the action sports issue 01:34:31.680 --> 01:34:36.610 - And I think you were up for denial on that and I believe the board the VCA worked with you at 01:34:36.610 --> 01:34:37.040 - length 01:34:37.040 --> 01:34:42.400 - you know they did and I was and when I told you about the timing issue that we had and 01:34:42.400 --> 01:34:48.450 - Staff said that they thought it was making that up. I've got it in writing. You're welcome to see 01:34:48.450 --> 01:34:48.560 - it 01:34:48.560 --> 01:34:53.990 - I did not make it up. We were this close to not getting that deal done and they fought us tooth and 01:34:53.990 --> 01:34:54.320 - nail 01:34:54.320 --> 01:35:01.980 - It's risky now my alternative just just so you know, let's say it would have been denied and let's 01:35:01.980 --> 01:35:02.300 - say 01:35:03.340 --> 01:35:07.720 - Planning would have gotten their way and tried to stop the project and it didn't go through 01:35:07.720 --> 01:35:13.340 - Okay, if you remember I had Kroger still guaranteeing that lease for years 01:35:13.340 --> 01:35:19.540 - Even empty they that was always least so I was always getting funded. That's a big 01:35:19.540 --> 01:35:22.440 - difference between here and 01:35:22.440 --> 01:35:25.120 - What we have 01:35:25.120 --> 01:35:31.040 - Currently at home currently has a lease and they're currently doing business. That's great 01:35:31.040 --> 01:35:34.520 - All right, and I was just making a point of the comment you made about the 01:35:34.520 --> 01:35:39.140 - Jackie and and whomever else you were talking to we're saying no 01:35:39.140 --> 01:35:43.570 - I mean they are giving you my understanding is they're giving you the answers based on the udl and 01:35:43.570 --> 01:35:44.820 - then you ask for a variance you 01:35:44.820 --> 01:35:49.580 - Come to us and we worked with you on that and I'm saying the very same thing at this point 01:35:49.580 --> 01:35:55.110 - For the for edification of whatever motion we come to which is there's nothing to stop you from 01:35:55.110 --> 01:35:55.700 - coming back 01:35:55.700 --> 01:36:01.110 - even if they say no to you you have the right to to petition it and bring it before the board of 01:36:01.110 --> 01:36:02.420 - zoning appeals for 01:36:02.420 --> 01:36:06.700 - That the simple request of asking to maintain that pole sign. All right 01:36:06.700 --> 01:36:10.100 - So right now what we're talking about here with this at-home sign is you've had 01:36:10.100 --> 01:36:12.180 - two years 01:36:12.180 --> 01:36:19.300 - Practically three years of time has changed and I my point is if it was really that important for 01:36:19.300 --> 01:36:20.140 - the businesses 01:36:20.140 --> 01:36:22.660 - That sign would have been built and they would have been promoted 01:36:22.660 --> 01:36:27.380 - So I don't buy that and I don't buy the fact that there's no clutter and I remember the meeting 01:36:27.380 --> 01:36:28.700 - that we had which was 01:36:28.700 --> 01:36:31.100 - We'll give you that for now and we'll let you keep the poll 01:36:31.100 --> 01:36:38.410 - Sign for now, but when they leave that sign goes and that was all what we had agreed to and now we're 01:36:38.410 --> 01:36:39.380 - back here again 01:36:39.380 --> 01:36:44.340 - Discussing it there because I told the the neighbors who I'm working with now 01:36:44.340 --> 01:36:48.820 - I can't live with that condition. So I will not move forward. It's me 01:36:49.860 --> 01:36:55.020 - Okay, it's not them. It's me you guys know, but I can't it's too risky 01:36:55.020 --> 01:37:02.820 - It's you know that big of a retail building. It's just too risky for me to put myself at the mercy 01:37:02.820 --> 01:37:03.260 - of 01:37:03.260 --> 01:37:10.050 - Planning and mercy of BCH just to be clear. The pole sign is more important to you than the small 01:37:10.050 --> 01:37:10.940 - third Street sign 01:37:10.940 --> 01:37:13.720 - We're here because we need both 01:37:14.780 --> 01:37:21.430 - The for the vibrancy of the center just I've been in the retail development world for many many 01:37:21.430 --> 01:37:21.980 - years 01:37:21.980 --> 01:37:26.140 - It's very important. Both of them are very important 01:37:26.140 --> 01:37:33.000 - So by saying well, which one is more important in try to weigh it and try to balance it. That's not 01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:33.740 - really really fair 01:37:33.740 --> 01:37:40.480 - They're both important. So I don't want to give up one say, oh, yeah, let's sacrifice this to get 01:37:40.480 --> 01:37:40.740 - this 01:37:41.060 --> 01:37:46.300 - It's not that case. Okay. Well, I've made my point which is if it was really both important 01:37:46.300 --> 01:37:49.820 - Then the other sign would have been built two years ago. So that was that's my only point 01:37:49.820 --> 01:37:53.860 - So that's the comment you've made. You've made your point clear. Okay. Thank you any other comments 01:37:53.860 --> 01:37:57.580 - I'm an agreement with Joe and I think 01:37:57.580 --> 01:38:02.620 - He's right and I think that was part of when you guys came two and a half years ago 01:38:02.620 --> 01:38:05.660 - You you were advocating for the businesses. That was your standpoint 01:38:05.660 --> 01:38:10.540 - Then then you should have put it up and then you should come to us 01:38:11.100 --> 01:38:12.220 - when 01:38:12.220 --> 01:38:15.660 - That group is getting ready to leave at home getting ready to leave 01:38:15.660 --> 01:38:20.260 - Yeah, I mean you can you can state risk every every developer has some risk when it comes to going 01:38:20.260 --> 01:38:21.700 - through planning as well 01:38:21.700 --> 01:38:25.740 - You guys are be a bigger group. There's other groups that come through they have their backs 01:38:25.740 --> 01:38:26.880 - against the wall as well 01:38:26.880 --> 01:38:31.460 - But I feel like I'm backing Joe in this because I'm in agreement with him that I think the sign 01:38:31.460 --> 01:38:32.460 - should have gone up 01:38:32.460 --> 01:38:36.020 - I was actually really shocked when I opened this and saw this again 01:38:36.220 --> 01:38:40.530 - It could have gone up and then you would have had two years of advertising for those businesses 01:38:40.530 --> 01:38:42.140 - helping them out which was 01:38:42.140 --> 01:38:48.230 - Really where you were arguing for and then you could have come probably five years from now to deal 01:38:48.230 --> 01:38:48.980 - with the at home 01:38:48.980 --> 01:38:54.340 - So it's it's a little frustrating that we're back to this and that we're not really standing behind 01:38:54.340 --> 01:38:55.540 - what I thought you guys 01:38:55.540 --> 01:38:58.420 - were trying to do 01:38:58.420 --> 01:39:01.980 - Five years, I mean 01:39:01.980 --> 01:39:04.300 - This whole idea of not being able to bring it back 01:39:04.860 --> 01:39:09.980 - The to BZA for this pulver that could change in five years. So that's a good point. So 01:39:09.980 --> 01:39:13.760 - Yeah at the time just to clarify 01:39:13.760 --> 01:39:19.500 - When you propose or one of the whoever proposed to add the condition? 01:39:19.500 --> 01:39:24.380 - I don't know if you remember what I said at the time, but I believe it was something to the effect 01:39:24.380 --> 01:39:26.380 - I'd rather eat broken glass than to 01:39:26.380 --> 01:39:30.580 - Take down that 01:39:30.580 --> 01:39:33.260 - Pylon sign it just it's just a bad 01:39:34.100 --> 01:39:37.740 - Situation. I don't want to get in my hands and knees and beg for that sign 01:39:37.740 --> 01:39:45.080 - And if you want to look one step further just one thing more that I want Joe to consider 01:39:45.080 --> 01:39:49.000 - Intent to consider him everybody else to consider 01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:52.220 - Why am I here? I 01:39:52.220 --> 01:39:59.100 - Own the at-home store. I don't own the beach stores. I'm sorry. I don't know the inline stores 01:39:59.100 --> 01:40:03.980 - I only have one store there the at-home store. I've got plenty of signage 01:40:03.980 --> 01:40:08.940 - I own the property where the multi-tenant sign is now and I'll I 01:40:08.940 --> 01:40:13.620 - Can put you know, you know anything can happen. Okay 01:40:13.620 --> 01:40:20.260 - But the vibrancy of the Whitehall Plaza Center is important 01:40:20.260 --> 01:40:25.060 - For me it's very important that they 01:40:25.060 --> 01:40:28.100 - Stay vibrant 01:40:28.100 --> 01:40:31.180 - They do well and the tenants do well. So 01:40:31.900 --> 01:40:36.160 - Most of why we're here is for the benefit of his client. Not me 01:40:36.160 --> 01:40:42.400 - Not me just so, you know, I just wanted you to consider that that I'm actually trying to be the 01:40:42.400 --> 01:40:43.100 - nice guy here 01:40:43.100 --> 01:40:45.660 - saying that 01:40:45.660 --> 01:40:52.620 - It'll be put on my piece of property here for the benefit for the most part of 01:40:52.620 --> 01:40:59.240 - His clients tenants, so I'm actually trying to be a good guy here. That's not always the case 01:40:59.240 --> 01:41:02.300 - But this time it is the case. Okay, so I hope that that 01:41:02.300 --> 01:41:04.220 - kind of 01:41:04.220 --> 01:41:08.140 - Well, I would disagree. You're always quite nice. I'm always quite nice 01:41:08.140 --> 01:41:12.160 - Quite nice quite nice. Okay, I got it 01:41:12.160 --> 01:41:18.700 - So if let's for the pole sign 01:41:18.700 --> 01:41:26.440 - Just set that aside for a second for the other sign to list the other businesses if you 01:41:26.860 --> 01:41:29.380 - If you were not awarded the first 01:41:29.380 --> 01:41:32.300 - the the pole sign 01:41:32.300 --> 01:41:37.980 - Would you still have interest in the extension for the second sign? 01:41:37.980 --> 01:41:41.540 - Meaning or is this all or nothing? 01:41:41.540 --> 01:41:48.810 - I'm trying to get on if we gave you an extension to do the multi-business sign. How long would you 01:41:48.810 --> 01:41:49.140 - need? 01:41:49.140 --> 01:41:52.140 - Because two years seems 01:41:55.340 --> 01:42:00.880 - But you could give us ten years and if you keep that first condition we're saying that's that multi-tenant 01:42:00.880 --> 01:42:01.940 - sign won't get built because 01:42:01.940 --> 01:42:04.540 - important that pile of sign is 01:42:04.540 --> 01:42:08.940 - Okay, so I just want to repeat so if you do if you do not get the pole sign 01:42:08.940 --> 01:42:12.160 - You're refusing to put up another sign to promote 01:42:12.160 --> 01:42:18.740 - Businesses within the area. Is that correct? I think six months. I don't want to speak for 01:42:19.700 --> 01:42:25.740 - I think any six months we would start as soon as we could but it it's all going to be six months 01:42:25.740 --> 01:42:27.740 - I think is reasonable. It's a little tight 01:42:27.740 --> 01:42:31.660 - And that's only if you get condition one 01:42:31.660 --> 01:42:34.820 - yeah, without without the 01:42:34.820 --> 01:42:42.110 - Without alleviating my risk of condition one. It's not going up the same thing that I said at the 01:42:42.110 --> 01:42:43.140 - last BCA 01:42:43.140 --> 01:42:49.120 - It's not going up and I want to compress Joe one more time. We're at two years now 01:42:49.440 --> 01:42:53.880 - Or a little over two, but there's a time limit Gabriel might know between 01:42:53.880 --> 01:42:59.700 - When you have a BCA and when you can bring it back. I don't know what that is. So 01:42:59.700 --> 01:43:08.900 - It's six months. Okay. So now we're at less than two years. I just want to do it to shave for you 01:43:08.900 --> 01:43:09.840 - with you 01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:11.160 - Okay 01:43:11.160 --> 01:43:13.360 - And my I'm sorry a third question 01:43:14.620 --> 01:43:20.820 - Can you elaborate on the lease terms with at home? Is it renewal like five years seven years? 01:43:20.820 --> 01:43:23.520 - When is there I guess I? 01:43:23.520 --> 01:43:30.080 - Pardon, it's a confidential lease, but in my opinion 01:43:30.080 --> 01:43:37.320 - It wouldn't matter if it's very short or if it was very long I 01:43:39.920 --> 01:43:45.960 - Just there's no reason for me to risk that pylon signed we almost lost it because 01:43:45.960 --> 01:43:50.760 - Eric and Jackie wouldn't give us a permit for at home until I had 01:43:50.760 --> 01:43:56.440 - Because he said the pylon sign and he's here. He can correct me if he thinks I'm wrong 01:43:56.440 --> 01:44:01.200 - He said we're not allowed to have that and he wants that out and he said 01:44:01.200 --> 01:44:03.760 - some other things that I didn't 01:44:03.760 --> 01:44:06.240 - think but 01:44:06.240 --> 01:44:12.240 - Right. No, but no, but our permit that goes back to what you were saying come back to you 01:44:12.240 --> 01:44:17.640 - Well, all of a sudden we have a tenant which we did all the sudden we say here 01:44:17.640 --> 01:44:20.200 - We want to build this and all of a sudden planning says 01:44:20.200 --> 01:44:25.640 - Even though it's there and we had the right to have that sign 01:44:25.640 --> 01:44:31.920 - If that sign doesn't come down you are not getting a building permit. That's risky 01:44:31.920 --> 01:44:36.120 - That is risky as it could be. Okay, and that happened 01:44:36.120 --> 01:44:40.100 - So he can that we got a record shows shows that 01:44:40.100 --> 01:44:48.200 - Then on the code so you've got a non-conforming sign 01:44:48.200 --> 01:44:53.260 - Does conformance get triggered 01:44:53.260 --> 01:45:01.520 - By a change of use I no longer a large retailer or is it the change of the business? 01:45:01.520 --> 01:45:05.760 - There 01:45:06.760 --> 01:45:09.760 - Changing the business does not affect 01:45:09.760 --> 01:45:14.280 - Changing the business changing the what's on the sign do not affect 01:45:14.280 --> 01:45:21.160 - Do not require to come into conformance at all. So absent the condition that was adopted in 01:45:21.160 --> 01:45:23.920 - 2022 01:45:23.920 --> 01:45:30.200 - So if at home went away tomorrow and it was replaced by 01:45:30.200 --> 01:45:32.960 - Acme retail 01:45:33.640 --> 01:45:36.160 - They don't have to get rid of the pulse sign. I 01:45:36.160 --> 01:45:41.280 - Mean yes because of variance 01:45:41.280 --> 01:45:48.000 - Outside of this 01:45:48.000 --> 01:45:57.720 - Right, but John at the time he said I have to take the pole sign down so the answer to your 01:45:57.720 --> 01:45:58.200 - question 01:45:58.200 --> 01:46:04.120 - He's correct. Now, he wasn't correct when we were signing at home because he said that signs got to 01:46:04.120 --> 01:46:04.800 - come down 01:46:04.800 --> 01:46:09.400 - okay, what I think is some of the under I'm not a 01:46:09.400 --> 01:46:12.920 - Mind reader, but I mean, I think I'm what I'm trying to get 01:46:12.920 --> 01:46:20.260 - Underneath the surface here is that you want to make darn sure that if that home's not there and 01:46:20.260 --> 01:46:21.840 - you have to lease it to another 01:46:21.840 --> 01:46:28.120 - Retailer you want to still have that sign and if that means giving up a monument 01:46:28.280 --> 01:46:29.680 - for your be 01:46:29.680 --> 01:46:30.960 - retailers 01:46:30.960 --> 01:46:36.160 - His be your be rose hose. You're fine with that. I'm not saying, you know, it's ideal. I'm just 01:46:36.160 --> 01:46:38.040 - saying that's kind of the reality 01:46:38.040 --> 01:46:40.600 - That's how it has to be. Yeah, I hear 01:46:40.600 --> 01:46:47.500 - If I understood to I'm gonna paraphrase this but the that's what they're saying is that's what hasn't 01:46:47.500 --> 01:46:48.340 - been built 01:46:48.340 --> 01:46:55.210 - One of the things that was discussed last time that hasn't really been brought up and that was that 01:46:55.210 --> 01:46:57.080 - their unit that they own 01:46:57.320 --> 01:47:04.800 - So the other side could be split up. So, you know, they made spoke quite a bit about 01:47:04.800 --> 01:47:08.280 - You know large retail and how retail is changing and once at home leaves 01:47:08.280 --> 01:47:11.960 - will they be able to find a bigger tenant because initially they wanted a large sign and 01:47:11.960 --> 01:47:15.120 - Multi-tenant on there and that's why and this used to be part of a PUD 01:47:15.120 --> 01:47:17.560 - So we had to do a lot. This has been going on for a very long time 01:47:17.560 --> 01:47:23.570 - so part of what was discussed by the BZA at that time was if we give you the multi-tenant center 01:47:23.570 --> 01:47:23.760 - and 01:47:24.200 --> 01:47:29.000 - Then the at-home one has to come down and then you have to convert yours into multi tenants now 01:47:29.000 --> 01:47:32.760 - you'll be able to use this sign where you wouldn't be able to use your existing sign to 01:47:32.760 --> 01:47:36.800 - Advertise all of those businesses and that was in part of the discussion as well 01:47:36.800 --> 01:47:41.200 - All right, so 01:47:41.200 --> 01:47:45.980 - No, no, not unless a question is posed and the question has been asked and answered. Thank you 01:47:45.980 --> 01:47:50.480 - That were passed questions come here to there 01:47:51.520 --> 01:47:54.760 - Sorry, that's I'm sorry. That's just where we are in the process right now. Sorry 01:47:54.760 --> 01:48:01.960 - We are at the board now for action and we've had 01:48:01.960 --> 01:48:05.200 - Discussion now what we could do at this point is we could take a motion 01:48:05.200 --> 01:48:08.880 - And we could have continued discussion on that or we can take a vote either way 01:48:08.880 --> 01:48:14.350 - Are we at a point with the board that we have a motion to put in front of the board for 01:48:14.350 --> 01:48:15.240 - consideration? 01:48:15.240 --> 01:48:17.240 - Sure 01:48:17.240 --> 01:48:37.960 - Based on the report and written findings of fact 01:48:37.960 --> 01:48:42.080 - Pose that we 01:48:42.080 --> 01:48:44.480 - recommend that the BZA 01:48:45.360 --> 01:48:47.960 - Adopt adopt the proposed findings and denied 01:48:47.960 --> 01:48:54.280 - the both requested modifications of variance approval v 38 22 01:48:54.280 --> 01:49:01.120 - Second okay, so I have a motion in a second now with that in front of the board now just to be 01:49:01.120 --> 01:49:01.760 - clear 01:49:01.760 --> 01:49:08.320 - When when this motion is called a vote of yes means to deny a vote of no means 01:49:08.320 --> 01:49:13.240 - That you do not agree with the motion to deny. Okay. All right now 01:49:14.240 --> 01:49:16.240 - Now it's back to the board though before 01:49:16.240 --> 01:49:21.300 - Anyone calls the question any other discussion thoughts comments that you'd like to put on to the 01:49:21.300 --> 01:49:23.240 - record before we move forward. I 01:49:23.240 --> 01:49:29.680 - Don't think there's a strong enough argument here I look across the street and you've got Lowe's 01:49:29.680 --> 01:49:33.160 - that has a building that's 50,000 square feet larger and 01:49:33.160 --> 01:49:39.420 - They're on a multi-tenant sign. I think what you guys presented was a very nice well-done sign that 01:49:39.420 --> 01:49:40.720 - should be up there 01:49:41.000 --> 01:49:47.080 - But I also think I find it hard to believe that a sign off of 69 is driving so much traffic 01:49:47.080 --> 01:49:51.120 - To affect these this business when it's this large of a business 01:49:51.120 --> 01:49:55.920 - It doesn't it doesn't affect Lowe's people know Lowe's people know at home. So I just feel like 01:49:55.920 --> 01:49:59.240 - Getting past the fact that we're here again. I 01:49:59.240 --> 01:50:02.680 - Don't think it's a strong enough 01:50:02.680 --> 01:50:09.360 - Argument for you can get this done move on and then as Joe said you could come back around if 01:50:09.360 --> 01:50:10.300 - necessary 01:50:11.060 --> 01:50:12.660 - I 01:50:12.660 --> 01:50:17.460 - Appreciate that and I have two comments about that, which is I think that it's it's it is 01:50:17.460 --> 01:50:24.140 - Difficult for a business like at home and it's also then as difficult for these new car dealerships 01:50:24.140 --> 01:50:25.940 - that are just up the road 01:50:25.940 --> 01:50:31.260 - You have anymore I think has the Honda Hyundai and they've all been asked to move out 01:50:31.260 --> 01:50:33.940 - Move out to the interstate so that they have higher visibility 01:50:33.940 --> 01:50:37.860 - However, what do they not get when they they don't get any signage like that? 01:50:37.860 --> 01:50:40.900 - It's on the side of their business within the regulations of the UDO 01:50:40.900 --> 01:50:46.500 - So that's one thing so I do think it's I do think people can see it from the roadway 01:50:46.500 --> 01:50:51.820 - But it is more difficult than having a pull sign and I think that that's that's correct just to 01:50:51.820 --> 01:50:53.020 - make that statement 01:50:53.020 --> 01:50:57.340 - It is more difficult if that sign is not there. It's easier to see because it's the only one that's 01:50:57.340 --> 01:50:57.860 - sticking up 01:50:57.860 --> 01:51:01.780 - So that's part of it. The other one though is what John's saying, which is you know, we have 01:51:01.780 --> 01:51:03.060 - restrictions based on the UDO 01:51:03.060 --> 01:51:06.580 - We have no we have no valid reason for 01:51:07.460 --> 01:51:12.110 - Changing that previous variance because we granted the variance for the reasons that were presented 01:51:12.110 --> 01:51:12.420 - to us 01:51:12.420 --> 01:51:18.670 - Nothing really is substantially changed at home still has signage on they have signage on 3rd 01:51:18.670 --> 01:51:19.140 - Street 01:51:19.140 --> 01:51:21.140 - It's on that sign right there 01:51:21.140 --> 01:51:25.760 - And in addition to that they have the bonus of the pull sign still being there. So 01:51:25.760 --> 01:51:30.420 - Up until such a time as at home goes away if it ever does 01:51:30.420 --> 01:51:34.060 - That's the only time that that sign goes away. So those are my two comments 01:51:34.220 --> 01:51:38.000 - I'm in agreement with where you're going with that 10 is it's difficult to make a decision 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:40.020 - to 01:51:40.020 --> 01:51:42.020 - To approve this variance 01:51:42.020 --> 01:51:48.020 - Any other comments 01:51:48.020 --> 01:51:55.780 - If the I would I would put the comment that if a short extension is needed if there if there is 01:51:55.780 --> 01:52:02.140 - Intercipiting the sign the multi-tenant sign up that I would be willing to give a slight extension 01:52:02.140 --> 01:52:06.150 - but it doesn't sound like that's the case but they can't put the sign up all they have to do is get 01:52:06.150 --> 01:52:07.260 - their sign permit and 01:52:07.260 --> 01:52:10.940 - then build it so the the extension will not change that fact and 01:52:10.940 --> 01:52:15.620 - Three years was a long time or two or a year or a year and a half 01:52:15.620 --> 01:52:18.260 - All of those were plenty of time. So 01:52:18.260 --> 01:52:23.780 - So but I agree with Tim. I think it's his comments. I think are are dead on, you know 01:52:23.780 --> 01:52:27.900 - This is what we're faced with and it's it's difficult to make any other decision at this point 01:52:27.900 --> 01:52:31.580 - Right that we can write that down put it in the record 01:52:32.260 --> 01:52:38.500 - Group 10 any other any other comments? All right in that case, I'll call the question 01:52:38.500 --> 01:52:51.020 - Ballard yes Fernandez. Yes, Casinco. Yes, Throckmorton. Yes, that's a 4-0 denial of the request 01:52:58.020 --> 01:53:03.820 - We will move to V - 17 - 25 at first I need a two-minute break to go to the bathroom, please 01:53:03.820 --> 01:53:07.780 - And we're back thank you for that brief 01:53:07.780 --> 01:53:10.860 - Lesson brief break 01:53:10.860 --> 01:53:17.500 - John's always right. All right. It's time for V - 17 - 25 Eric. I can have a staff report, please 01:53:17.500 --> 01:53:25.660 - Thank you, this is a request for Cornerstone Church for a property at 2655 South Adams Street 01:53:26.020 --> 01:53:30.820 - The petitioners are here tonight to request variances from front parking setback standards 01:53:30.820 --> 01:53:35.320 - Required electric vehicle charging stations and buffer yard 01:53:35.320 --> 01:53:41.180 - Landscaping standards to allow for the expansion of a parking area for the use place of worship in 01:53:41.180 --> 01:53:43.740 - the mixed-use institutional zoning district 01:53:43.740 --> 01:53:48.460 - So this property as I mentioned his own mixed-use institutional and has been developed with a 01:53:48.460 --> 01:53:48.900 - church 01:53:48.900 --> 01:53:52.040 - surrounding land uses to the west include 01:53:52.700 --> 01:53:59.330 - Attached single-family the Summit Ridge neighborhood slightly to the southwest you have apartments 01:53:59.330 --> 01:54:00.500 - multi-family residential 01:54:00.500 --> 01:54:02.860 - Into the east you have single-family residential 01:54:02.860 --> 01:54:09.310 - Within Sunflower Gardens and to the north you have a mix of mixed-use institutional with summit 01:54:09.310 --> 01:54:11.860 - school and some single-family to the north 01:54:11.860 --> 01:54:12.780 - as well 01:54:12.780 --> 01:54:17.200 - So the site as I mentioned has been developed with a church with the parking area on the west and 01:54:17.200 --> 01:54:19.460 - east sides and north side 01:54:19.980 --> 01:54:23.700 - The building has been located somewhat centered in the property and as you can see 01:54:23.700 --> 01:54:30.010 - The property is very long from north to south and is a corner lot located at the southeast corner 01:54:30.010 --> 01:54:31.740 - of countryside and Adams Street 01:54:31.740 --> 01:54:37.200 - The petitioner would like to expand the parking area and add approximately 70 01:54:37.200 --> 01:54:42.360 - So parking spaces on the site to expand the existing 89 01:54:42.360 --> 01:54:47.400 - To provide for a total of a hundred and fifty four parking spaces on the site 01:54:47.820 --> 01:54:51.220 - This would include a new drive cut along Adams Street 01:54:51.220 --> 01:54:56.180 - The location of the drive cut meets all of our requirements and is not a component of the variance 01:54:56.180 --> 01:55:01.960 - So the variances that are being requested or relation are related to the front parking setback 01:55:01.960 --> 01:55:07.080 - So the UDO UDO does not allow parking within 20 feet at the front of the building 01:55:07.080 --> 01:55:10.820 - As I mentioned with the location of the building and on a corner lot 01:55:10.820 --> 01:55:15.480 - No parking would be allowed on the north side of the building since that is between the building 01:55:15.480 --> 01:55:16.640 - and countryside lane 01:55:17.340 --> 01:55:22.980 - And then the 20 foot setback would also severely restrict the property as well in terms of where 01:55:22.980 --> 01:55:24.920 - any additional parking could be 01:55:24.920 --> 01:55:26.460 - installed 01:55:26.460 --> 01:55:31.190 - With the expansion of the parking that is an expansion of the use and does trigger the limited 01:55:31.190 --> 01:55:33.180 - compliance standards of the UDO 01:55:33.180 --> 01:55:38.220 - That would involve new landscaping throughout the property as shown here 01:55:38.220 --> 01:55:40.940 - installation of islands 01:55:40.940 --> 01:55:43.380 - Through the property as well 01:55:43.380 --> 01:55:48.450 - It's also because there are more than 50 parking spaces requires the installation of electric 01:55:48.450 --> 01:55:51.560 - vehicle charging stations as well as bike rack 01:55:51.560 --> 01:55:55.820 - And then also a buffer yard is required to the east 01:55:55.820 --> 01:56:02.790 - Since this use here is mixed-use institutional or the zoning is mixed-use institutional and the 01:56:02.790 --> 01:56:04.820 - zoning to the east is single-family 01:56:04.820 --> 01:56:10.820 - Residential so a type 3 buffer yard is required along the entire east property line 01:56:11.260 --> 01:56:17.260 - So as you can see here to the east the property is very long. It's between 900 feet long 01:56:17.260 --> 01:56:21.820 - So that would require a type 3 buffer yard along that entire 900 feet 01:56:21.820 --> 01:56:26.460 - So that buffer yard requires a certain mix of deciduous 01:56:26.460 --> 01:56:32.810 - Evergreen and small medium trees along that area and obviously the intent of that buffer yard is to 01:56:32.810 --> 01:56:34.440 - mitigate the visual 01:56:34.440 --> 01:56:37.100 - impacts and sound impacts from 01:56:37.420 --> 01:56:43.080 - More intensive uses from less intensive uses. So as I mentioned certainly there are single-family 01:56:43.080 --> 01:56:44.140 - to the east of this 01:56:44.140 --> 01:56:50.140 - And as you look at the site here from Sunflower Gardens, you can see the church in the parking lot 01:56:50.140 --> 01:56:50.860 - in the background 01:56:50.860 --> 01:56:57.230 - It's on a level with those single-family residences. So certainly the presence of the buffer yard 01:56:57.230 --> 01:56:58.080 - does play a role 01:56:58.080 --> 01:57:01.180 - In buffering this use from those residences 01:57:01.780 --> 01:57:06.820 - Even though there will be landscaping installed around the parking area that doesn't necessarily 01:57:06.820 --> 01:57:08.620 - cover all of the area and doesn't really 01:57:08.620 --> 01:57:13.540 - Buffer the entire property from those uses having that landscaping up against the single-family 01:57:13.540 --> 01:57:15.000 - does have a lot more benefit 01:57:15.000 --> 01:57:18.280 - To those to those adjacent properties 01:57:18.280 --> 01:57:24.110 - So as I mentioned the petitioner is requesting three variances. One of those is from the parking 01:57:24.110 --> 01:57:25.040 - setback standards 01:57:25.040 --> 01:57:27.920 - To allow parking within that 20-foot setback 01:57:28.340 --> 01:57:33.020 - we did find that the granting of that variance would not be 01:57:33.020 --> 01:57:39.070 - Injurious to the public health safety or moral morals or general welfare the parking area will meet 01:57:39.070 --> 01:57:40.760 - all landscaping standards 01:57:40.760 --> 01:57:45.340 - In regards to the variance request from the electric vehicle charging station 01:57:45.340 --> 01:57:51.090 - You know one of the reasons for requiring electric vehicle charging station was to certainly be a 01:57:51.090 --> 01:57:52.180 - lot more progressive 01:57:52.580 --> 01:57:58.300 - In the zoning code as we look to encourage different forms of transportation and certainly 01:57:58.300 --> 01:58:00.580 - different modes of using vehicles 01:58:00.580 --> 01:58:06.330 - the presence of electric vehicle charging stations does several things certainly one of those it 01:58:06.330 --> 01:58:07.940 - provides a service to 01:58:07.940 --> 01:58:14.140 - The people that are at a facility, but also it raises general community awareness that there is 01:58:14.140 --> 01:58:18.280 - Availability these electrical vehicle charging stations as they go to place to place 01:58:19.140 --> 01:58:24.000 - So we did find that there would be injury to the public health or safety or morals or general 01:58:24.000 --> 01:58:25.540 - welfare because this particular 01:58:25.540 --> 01:58:28.300 - Requirement was put in very specifically to help 01:58:28.300 --> 01:58:30.740 - improve the community as a whole 01:58:30.740 --> 01:58:36.500 - So requiring these around the community as are required does does have a lot of benefit 01:58:36.500 --> 01:58:39.540 - In regards to the buffer yard landscaping 01:58:39.540 --> 01:58:45.500 - We did not find that the granting of the variance to not require that would be injurious 01:58:46.340 --> 01:58:51.300 - However, the installation of the buffer yard certainly does benefit the adjacent not neighbors 01:58:51.300 --> 01:58:57.660 - But you know would not benefit or negatively harm any safety or morals as they stand 01:58:57.660 --> 01:59:00.260 - in regards to the parking setback 01:59:00.260 --> 01:59:07.460 - Well, we did not find any adverse impacts as a result of the granting of the variance the 01:59:07.460 --> 01:59:09.140 - substantial amount of landscaping 01:59:09.140 --> 01:59:11.780 - helps mitigate and buffer that 01:59:12.020 --> 01:59:16.360 - I should note though that we did receive one letter of opposition from an adjacent neighbor 01:59:16.360 --> 01:59:19.540 - That's in your packet and then after the packet went out 01:59:19.540 --> 01:59:24.870 - I received another letter and phone call from an adjacent neighbor again in Summit Ridge who were 01:59:24.870 --> 01:59:25.260 - not 01:59:25.260 --> 01:59:30.390 - Supportive of the variance to have more parking in the front as that would be visually impacting 01:59:30.390 --> 01:59:31.780 - and visual 01:59:31.780 --> 01:59:35.180 - visible from their properties across the street 01:59:35.180 --> 01:59:40.340 - We did not find any negative impacts on the granting of the variance for the electric vehicle 01:59:40.540 --> 01:59:43.380 - Charging stations on the use and value of adjacent to the area 01:59:43.380 --> 01:59:47.700 - And we did find though with the buffer yard landscaping 01:59:47.700 --> 01:59:51.580 - Negative impacts on the use and value again as I mentioned, you know 01:59:51.580 --> 01:59:55.820 - The purpose of the buffer yard landscaping variance or the purpose of the buffer yard landscaping 01:59:55.820 --> 01:59:57.480 - is to mitigate these uses 01:59:57.480 --> 02:00:01.940 - the more intensive uses from less intensive uses which does have a very 02:00:01.940 --> 02:00:06.340 - Real impact on a day-to-day basis from those adjacent neighbors 02:00:06.820 --> 02:00:11.380 - you know, if you you imagine you're that neighbor and you're looking out at a parking lot or a 02:00:11.380 --> 02:00:13.860 - building or looking out at landscaping and 02:00:13.860 --> 02:00:15.860 - Certainly the presence of landscaping 02:00:15.860 --> 02:00:21.710 - It greatly improves your view and use of your property. So we did find negative impacts in that 02:00:21.710 --> 02:00:22.200 - regard 02:00:22.200 --> 02:00:26.980 - In regards to the strict application of the terms of the UDO 02:00:26.980 --> 02:00:31.200 - In relation to practical difficulties that are peculiar to the property 02:00:31.820 --> 02:00:37.640 - We did find that the that there is practical difficulty associated with meet the part meeting the 02:00:37.640 --> 02:00:38.780 - parking setback variance 02:00:38.780 --> 02:00:43.240 - Or meeting the parking setback requirement the location of the building on the property 02:00:43.240 --> 02:00:49.140 - As it's centered doesn't provide any opportunities to really add parking on the west side of the 02:00:49.140 --> 02:00:50.660 - building and no 02:00:50.660 --> 02:00:52.820 - Opportunities to add it to the north side of the building 02:00:52.820 --> 02:00:57.860 - The south side of the building drops off in topography and has a lot of drainage issues 02:00:58.420 --> 02:01:03.260 - And a lot of grading problems as well. So there really are not any areas on the site that any 02:01:03.260 --> 02:01:04.580 - parking could be added 02:01:04.580 --> 02:01:10.380 - The petitioner did submit a somewhat parking study that was done over several months 02:01:10.380 --> 02:01:14.640 - Showing the amount of cars that were parked along Adams Street 02:01:14.640 --> 02:01:17.460 - indicating a very heavy usage and 02:01:17.460 --> 02:01:21.560 - Heavy need for parking on the property 02:01:21.560 --> 02:01:26.340 - So adding more parking helps relieve some of that congestion for the on-street parking 02:01:26.740 --> 02:01:29.300 - Freeing up parking for adjacent neighbors to utilize that 02:01:29.300 --> 02:01:34.970 - In regards to electric vehicle charging. We did not find that there were any practical difficulties 02:01:34.970 --> 02:01:36.300 - in the use of the property 02:01:36.300 --> 02:01:41.800 - That were peculiar to this they can still use it as a church with the electric vehicle charging 02:01:41.800 --> 02:01:42.460 - stations 02:01:42.460 --> 02:01:47.060 - You know, there's nothing unique about their property that prevents them from installing the 02:01:47.060 --> 02:01:48.900 - electric vehicle charging stations 02:01:48.900 --> 02:01:53.620 - So we were not able to make any findings to support that particular variance 02:01:54.420 --> 02:01:59.380 - In regards to the buffer yard landscaping. We did find that there are some practical difficulties 02:01:59.380 --> 02:02:04.580 - That are unique to this because there is a significant amount of property, you know, as I mentioned 02:02:04.580 --> 02:02:05.460 - almost 900 feet 02:02:05.460 --> 02:02:08.320 - To the east of this that would require that buffer 02:02:08.320 --> 02:02:12.460 - But as you look at the site and how it's used only about half of that 02:02:12.460 --> 02:02:17.040 - Is where the parking and building would be so we are recommending 02:02:17.040 --> 02:02:22.540 - Approval of that variance with the condition and the limitation that the buffer yard is only 02:02:22.540 --> 02:02:23.060 - required 02:02:23.340 --> 02:02:28.010 - Along the portions of the property where the parking will be installed. And so I tried to show that 02:02:28.010 --> 02:02:29.560 - on the screen here with this red line 02:02:29.560 --> 02:02:35.900 - So that would be the area where we would be recommending the buffer yard be installed 02:02:35.900 --> 02:02:39.780 - So with that we are recommending 02:02:39.780 --> 02:02:46.060 - that the Board of Zona Appeals approve the variance from front parking setback and 02:02:46.060 --> 02:02:48.820 - buffer yard landscaping as I 02:02:49.420 --> 02:02:53.690 - Mentioned with this stipulation that is only required along the portions of the site where the 02:02:53.690 --> 02:02:54.260 - parking is 02:02:54.260 --> 02:02:58.500 - But deny the variance from electric vehicle charging stations 02:02:58.500 --> 02:03:04.060 - With the three conditions that are listed in staffs report and I'm happy to answer any questions 02:03:04.060 --> 02:03:06.420 - Thank You 02:03:06.420 --> 02:03:11.270 - Petitioner and okay all of those who are going to speak, please come forward sign in and I'll swear 02:03:11.270 --> 02:03:12.340 - you in and we'll go from there 02:03:12.340 --> 02:03:17.940 - Go ahead and have you signed in? Nope 02:03:17.940 --> 02:03:19.940 - you 02:03:19.940 --> 02:03:37.820 - And then go ahead and state your first and last name Daniel Butler and Daniel 02:03:37.820 --> 02:03:41.230 - Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but 02:03:41.230 --> 02:03:41.660 - the truth? 02:03:41.660 --> 02:03:45.540 - I do. Okay. Thank you. I'll go ahead and swear in your partner here 02:03:45.540 --> 02:03:47.540 - I 02:03:47.540 --> 02:03:52.660 - First and last name Reverend David Wiggington 02:03:52.660 --> 02:03:55.740 - Reverend David David Wiggington, okay 02:03:55.740 --> 02:03:59.160 - David do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and 02:03:59.160 --> 02:04:00.020 - nothing but the truth 02:04:00.020 --> 02:04:04.700 - I do and remember you speak as a pastor. Thank you. All right, you have 20 minutes 02:04:04.700 --> 02:04:09.040 - And again, I want to reiterate what you don't use now will be reserved for later before the board 02:04:09.040 --> 02:04:09.700 - takes action 02:04:09.700 --> 02:04:11.980 - Okay, all right. I'll get two opportunities 20 minutes total 02:04:13.180 --> 02:04:16.980 - Well, thank you very much. I know it's a late night for you and I appreciate hearing us Daniel 02:04:16.980 --> 02:04:18.320 - bought with Bina fanning associates 02:04:18.320 --> 02:04:22.380 - I'm a registered civil engineer here in the state of Indiana along with me David Wiggington 02:04:22.380 --> 02:04:26.180 - pastor and represents leadership at cornerstone church 02:04:26.180 --> 02:04:35.180 - We've met a few times with the city staff and met with the church about just the need for this and 02:04:35.180 --> 02:04:38.140 - the church is growing 02:04:38.660 --> 02:04:45.410 - And well if the needs been there for quite some time really and the as you saw they did a parking 02:04:45.410 --> 02:04:45.740 - study 02:04:45.740 --> 02:04:47.340 - So we're not asking 02:04:47.340 --> 02:04:48.620 - for any 02:04:48.620 --> 02:04:53.020 - Parking that is not allowed by code. So we're not asking for additional parking 02:04:53.020 --> 02:04:58.660 - That's not one of the variances that we're asking for tonight. So everything that the UDL UDL 02:04:58.660 --> 02:04:59.580 - allows right now 02:04:59.580 --> 02:05:03.740 - We're just need for our sites. We're asking for that. Then the question becomes 02:05:05.140 --> 02:05:10.900 - this triggers a limited compliance plan through the city's code and so that 02:05:10.900 --> 02:05:17.620 - Doesn't cause you to bring everything that's necessary if you were to build it by right today 02:05:17.620 --> 02:05:20.820 - But you have to you know, it triggers different 02:05:20.820 --> 02:05:23.460 - requirements for the code and so 02:05:23.460 --> 02:05:27.580 - We're we want to obey as many of those as we can 02:05:27.580 --> 02:05:32.260 - So the three variances that are before you tonight just make it happen make it work 02:05:32.860 --> 02:05:39.050 - For us and I'm just you probably read the letter everything that's the case that we're making for 02:05:39.050 --> 02:05:40.300 - these variances 02:05:40.300 --> 02:05:45.060 - but let me just give you a little more information of why we need these and 02:05:45.060 --> 02:05:50.740 - Let me focus mainly on the landscape buffer and the EV parking spots 02:05:50.740 --> 02:05:58.460 - We are in agreement with the with staff that the buffer yard on the east side is 02:05:59.420 --> 02:06:05.720 - You know that they're recommending approval on that. I would just ask for one tweak that 02:06:05.720 --> 02:06:09.940 - The landscape can you bring up the landscape plan Eric? Would that be all right? 02:06:09.940 --> 02:06:17.900 - We're asking that 02:06:17.900 --> 02:06:22.060 - instead of doing the type 02:06:22.060 --> 02:06:26.280 - Three buffer along where the parking areas are 02:06:27.100 --> 02:06:33.030 - We'd like to follow our landscape plan that we've drawn up that incorporates parking lot perimeter 02:06:33.030 --> 02:06:33.880 - plantings 02:06:33.880 --> 02:06:36.100 - it's a different type of 02:06:36.100 --> 02:06:39.780 - Plantings where you get shrubs you get 02:06:39.780 --> 02:06:47.880 - Trees along the parking lot. So we are proposing that so that it would benefit the neighbors that 02:06:47.880 --> 02:06:48.880 - are cross-street right now 02:06:48.880 --> 02:06:54.180 - There are there isn't any landscaping that would buffer them from the neighbors to the east 02:06:54.180 --> 02:07:00.860 - And so we're not going to leave that undone, but we are asking not to do any buffer yard 02:07:00.860 --> 02:07:05.780 - Because we feel like what we propose is a better solution 02:07:05.780 --> 02:07:12.900 - The shrubs give that are under the UDO give headlight protection so that wouldn't shine in windows 02:07:12.900 --> 02:07:18.320 - And then you also get the trees that are along there the buffer yard in this particular case 02:07:18.320 --> 02:07:22.650 - Especially if we're gonna put them down in the drainage area would inhibit the the flow that's 02:07:22.650 --> 02:07:23.200 - going through there 02:07:23.200 --> 02:07:28.300 - This that drainage way that's between the properties is taking on flow from the east to the north 02:07:28.300 --> 02:07:29.820 - and this property 02:07:29.820 --> 02:07:32.980 - So we don't want to inhibit that so we've given you an alternative solution 02:07:32.980 --> 02:07:38.640 - So that condition number two we'd like to put in the parking lot perimeter as we're showing instead 02:07:38.640 --> 02:07:39.060 - of that 02:07:39.060 --> 02:07:41.340 - If that makes sense, though 02:07:41.340 --> 02:07:45.060 - EV charging stations 02:07:45.060 --> 02:07:49.060 - We believe that this is a peculiar 02:07:49.960 --> 02:07:53.660 - property and that's the use on it to 02:07:53.660 --> 02:07:57.700 - The reason that you'd have EV charging stations 02:07:57.700 --> 02:08:03.150 - We understand and we agree with you know needing EV charging stations and that would be with large 02:08:03.150 --> 02:08:04.120 - parking fields 02:08:04.120 --> 02:08:09.060 - for daily uses like commercial uses that you'd go to a 02:08:09.060 --> 02:08:14.260 - Church uses being lumped into a commercial use and it is different by nature 02:08:15.180 --> 02:08:21.900 - one difference by nature that a church is is you people aren't coming and going 02:08:21.900 --> 02:08:28.720 - normally on a daily basis that it's for weekends and so one thing that I would say is 02:08:28.720 --> 02:08:31.820 - They wouldn't really be used in the sense that 02:08:31.820 --> 02:08:38.060 - Except for over the weekend. So the the need form is just really not there 02:08:38.060 --> 02:08:43.040 - so that's one reason that I would add that this is different than a typical commercial business 02:08:43.040 --> 02:08:43.440 - where 02:08:43.820 --> 02:08:47.260 - we understand if you're going to the supermarket you need somewhere to plug in or 02:08:47.260 --> 02:08:53.680 - Encourage somebody to have that type of vehicle a place to plug in in this particular case 02:08:53.680 --> 02:08:58.540 - We feel like it's a little bit different. This is not a daily use 02:08:58.540 --> 02:09:04.540 - This is over the weekend and asking for relief from this so that it's not 02:09:04.540 --> 02:09:12.620 - we feel like having these charging stations is a bit of a burden to place because you know, 02:09:13.100 --> 02:09:16.540 - We're there's a lot of costs going into a parking lot including 02:09:16.540 --> 02:09:21.220 - astringent regulations of stormwater everything that is required to 02:09:21.220 --> 02:09:26.380 - Produce with a new parking lot. We're not asking for any relief on some of those other requirements 02:09:26.380 --> 02:09:28.380 - we're asking for this because we just 02:09:28.380 --> 02:09:30.820 - also feel like 02:09:30.820 --> 02:09:36.700 - This particular property also is unique in you've probably driven by there many times. Maybe some 02:09:36.700 --> 02:09:38.140 - of you live on the south side. I do 02:09:39.060 --> 02:09:45.600 - Myself my kids go to summit elementary. So I do drive by there all the time. It's a very long and 02:09:45.600 --> 02:09:46.060 - vulnerable 02:09:46.060 --> 02:09:50.740 - I would say exposed piece of property 02:09:50.740 --> 02:09:56.460 - There the church is already having a little bit of issue with people 02:09:56.460 --> 02:09:59.300 - this church I've 02:09:59.300 --> 02:10:01.900 - I have a church home myself and 02:10:01.900 --> 02:10:08.300 - They it's pretty clear that these guys want to take care of the community. That's without a doubt 02:10:09.180 --> 02:10:13.930 - They do a great job of providing for different place in the community. I'll give you a few stats 02:10:13.930 --> 02:10:14.980 - here in a second 02:10:14.980 --> 02:10:23.100 - but that also does draw in many that sometimes abuse that help to and 02:10:23.100 --> 02:10:27.340 - so they have people parking vehicles leaving vehicles and 02:10:27.340 --> 02:10:33.510 - Having EV charging stations is really for those who are coming to a business to build plug-in and 02:10:33.510 --> 02:10:35.340 - then go on to the next thing 02:10:36.060 --> 02:10:41.350 - We believe that in this case we feel like in this instead of being used on a daily basis for the 02:10:41.350 --> 02:10:42.340 - right reasons 02:10:42.340 --> 02:10:44.340 - We feel like it would be abused by 02:10:44.340 --> 02:10:48.850 - You know people that aren't going to be using at their house and they would be for a different 02:10:48.850 --> 02:10:49.220 - reason 02:10:49.220 --> 02:10:51.980 - I think you're probably getting the gist of what I'm talking about 02:10:51.980 --> 02:10:55.220 - so a 02:10:55.220 --> 02:11:00.240 - Third reason for the EV charging stations, maybe a lesser reason if you will 02:11:00.240 --> 02:11:04.420 - over they were I was talking to 02:11:05.500 --> 02:11:08.160 - David today and they he quoted offhand 02:11:08.160 --> 02:11:12.680 - He feels like they in the neighborhood of about 2,500 02:11:12.680 --> 02:11:17.240 - Families were helped by this church in the last five years of grocery buying alone 02:11:17.240 --> 02:11:20.580 - They feel like you know 02:11:20.580 --> 02:11:25.500 - putting that money towards helping the community and not the the burden of 02:11:25.500 --> 02:11:30.990 - EV charging stations again, we're not trying to get away with other regulations with this parking 02:11:30.990 --> 02:11:31.860 - lot this one 02:11:31.860 --> 02:11:36.420 - We're asking for because we feel like it can be put towards other uses better uses in terms of 02:11:36.420 --> 02:11:37.660 - helping the community 02:11:37.660 --> 02:11:40.380 - I 02:11:40.380 --> 02:11:42.380 - was astonished by this and I 02:11:42.380 --> 02:11:49.140 - He felt like a quarter million dollars was distributed in help to the community since kovat 02:11:49.140 --> 02:11:53.420 - And so I think it's well documented you can ask 02:11:53.420 --> 02:11:59.140 - Pastor here yourself if you have any questions about some of those stats, but some of that 02:11:59.940 --> 02:12:04.810 - That helped to the community. I'm not saying it's the main reason I'm saying it's a reason to 02:12:04.810 --> 02:12:05.260 - really 02:12:05.260 --> 02:12:11.400 - Consider not putting this extra burden on a church that's being lumped in with other commercial 02:12:11.400 --> 02:12:12.180 - uses that can more 02:12:12.180 --> 02:12:16.660 - You know people can plug in at some of those other ones. We understand the need for that 02:12:16.660 --> 02:12:20.360 - But then this particular case we feel like it's a little bit different in that in that case 02:12:20.360 --> 02:12:29.060 - I'll leave it at that and if there's any questions for myself for David 02:12:29.060 --> 02:12:31.060 - Let us know 02:12:31.060 --> 02:12:37.380 - I just just two minutes. I just want to add Eric 02:12:37.380 --> 02:12:42.010 - Could you put up the picture that shows the church between the the two houses in in the 02:12:42.010 --> 02:12:43.220 - neighborhood there? 02:12:43.220 --> 02:12:49.780 - We've been here 28 years. I planted cornerstone in 1997. So Bloomington's our home 02:12:49.780 --> 02:12:53.660 - And when we built the church, there was none of that was there 02:12:53.660 --> 02:12:57.620 - We were it was literally a field we paid to put Adam Street in when we put the 02:12:58.140 --> 02:13:02.140 - When we built the first church in the year 2000, we want to be good neighbors 02:13:02.140 --> 02:13:05.380 - We want to provide landscape buffering and things like that 02:13:05.380 --> 02:13:09.780 - But if you could go to that picture that shows between the the shows the church between the two 02:13:09.780 --> 02:13:10.180 - houses 02:13:10.180 --> 02:13:12.460 - There you go 02:13:12.460 --> 02:13:16.040 - What you don't see in this picture is the drainage area that sits 02:13:16.040 --> 02:13:20.100 - well below the parking lot and well below the backyard of these homes and 02:13:20.100 --> 02:13:26.980 - Much of what would be called for by the the landscape buffer would would not provide matter of fact 02:13:26.980 --> 02:13:28.820 - One of the relief I think is a six-foot fence 02:13:28.820 --> 02:13:32.500 - I had a colleague stand down in that hole today and tried to take his picture and 02:13:32.500 --> 02:13:37.500 - Couldn't see the top of his head standing in on my parking lot or in the backyard of our neighbors 02:13:37.500 --> 02:13:40.140 - So a six-foot fence wouldn't provide any sort of relief 02:13:40.140 --> 02:13:44.340 - It would be years and years and years before trees would be tall enough to provide but you can see 02:13:44.340 --> 02:13:45.460 - right there if we plant 02:13:45.460 --> 02:13:48.060 - the the kind of landscape buffering that we're 02:13:48.060 --> 02:13:52.520 - Proposing it would immediately provide relief for the neighbors who are looking at the back of that 02:13:52.520 --> 02:13:53.100 - parking lot 02:13:53.100 --> 02:13:56.570 - You would be able to see what we're going to plant in the proposal because it's right on the edge 02:13:56.570 --> 02:13:57.580 - of the parking lot and 02:13:57.580 --> 02:14:02.230 - Planting is down in that valley. Not only do I believe it creates significant drainage issues long 02:14:02.230 --> 02:14:02.500 - term 02:14:02.500 --> 02:14:06.540 - It wouldn't believe it wouldn't do what the the ordinance 02:14:06.540 --> 02:14:11.000 - Proposes that it does because of the uniqueness of our property and I'll just say this on electric 02:14:11.000 --> 02:14:11.960 - vehicle chargers 02:14:11.960 --> 02:14:14.620 - Much of life is not a zero-sum game 02:14:14.620 --> 02:14:19.660 - This is we don't have extra money to do these things and so any money that we put into 02:14:19.740 --> 02:14:23.740 - EV chargers or into paying for people coming and charging their cars is 02:14:23.740 --> 02:14:28.620 - literally money that's taken away from feeding local families and helping to provide shelter for 02:14:28.620 --> 02:14:34.460 - For for the unhoused and helping to provide for unwed moms and things like that, and it's I'm not 02:14:34.460 --> 02:14:35.220 - trying to be dramatic 02:14:35.220 --> 02:14:39.250 - It's just this is a zero-sum game. We don't have another pocket that we pull these things from so 02:14:39.250 --> 02:14:40.420 - if we have to put in 02:14:40.420 --> 02:14:45.420 - EV chargers and we have to pay long term to to pay for the electricity of those 02:14:46.340 --> 02:14:49.880 - It will have an impact and again, we try to be a good neighbor. We try to be good stewards 02:14:49.880 --> 02:14:54.690 - Not saying this to brag is on the front page of the Herald Times when they still printed the Herald 02:14:54.690 --> 02:14:54.860 - Times 02:14:54.860 --> 02:14:55.540 - I don't know if they do or not 02:14:55.540 --> 02:14:59.940 - But during kovat we literally converted our sanctuary into a distribution center for groceries 02:14:59.940 --> 02:15:03.800 - We distributed over 150 thousand dollars with the groceries to our neighbors during kovat who were 02:15:03.800 --> 02:15:04.580 - hurting at that time 02:15:04.580 --> 02:15:08.780 - We've done the same thing one other time since then we have an ongoing pantry that provides for our 02:15:08.780 --> 02:15:10.300 - neighborhood that our neighbors help add 02:15:10.500 --> 02:15:15.010 - Food to and it's it's just an open thing where people serve themselves and every week people are 02:15:15.010 --> 02:15:16.380 - being served by our church 02:15:16.380 --> 02:15:19.540 - And so we want to be good neighbors. We want the property to look nice 02:15:19.540 --> 02:15:23.870 - We don't want you know any the neighbors who are concerned about looking over right now. They have 02:15:23.870 --> 02:15:24.180 - green space 02:15:24.180 --> 02:15:27.220 - I talked to I believe I talked to the lady who sent a letter for the packet 02:15:27.220 --> 02:15:29.780 - She came to church on Sunday to talk to me. She's very kind 02:15:29.780 --> 02:15:34.180 - She actually has some concerns about the EV chargers and the people that might drive in and park 02:15:34.180 --> 02:15:35.220 - and leave their cars 02:15:35.220 --> 02:15:39.460 - And I do too because we background check every person who comes into our building to work with our 02:15:39.460 --> 02:15:39.620 - kids 02:15:39.660 --> 02:15:42.890 - Our buildings open during the week. So if somebody parks there and decides to wander through our 02:15:42.890 --> 02:15:43.240 - building 02:15:43.240 --> 02:15:46.440 - I don't know who's in our building and I have concerns about liability 02:15:46.440 --> 02:15:51.160 - Because do I start walking my building so people don't go in and use the bathroom 02:15:51.160 --> 02:15:56.160 - Or our children in our building being exposed to people that we don't know what their background is 02:15:56.160 --> 02:15:56.860 - those kinds of things 02:15:56.860 --> 02:15:58.860 - So I have concerns about those things as well 02:15:58.860 --> 02:16:03.040 - But just generally thank you for your time. I know it's a late night. Thank you for hearing us and 02:16:03.040 --> 02:16:04.360 - and we're open any questions 02:16:04.360 --> 02:16:05.940 - Yeah 02:16:05.940 --> 02:16:10.260 - Thank you to the board for questions of either the staff petitioner John 02:16:10.260 --> 02:16:17.140 - To two questions one is what is the estimated cost of each of these? 02:16:17.140 --> 02:16:20.540 - electric vehicle charging stations 02:16:20.540 --> 02:16:27.730 - He's done some more recent research on that as our firm we've also done a little bit research you 02:16:27.730 --> 02:16:29.540 - can go cheap or you can go 02:16:30.380 --> 02:16:35.630 - Some of the better ones who hold you know, like superchargers, you know that some of the others 02:16:35.630 --> 02:16:36.100 - offer 02:16:36.100 --> 02:16:39.380 - But I think he's done a little more current research. So I'll let him answer that 02:16:39.380 --> 02:16:44.090 - Yeah our understanding for any kind of commercial use that our insurance would allow we can't buy a 02:16:44.090 --> 02:16:45.060 - residential charger 02:16:45.060 --> 02:16:49.940 - So any any sort of commercial use if we buy it off of teamu like we can literally get it for about 02:16:49.940 --> 02:16:54.320 - $3,000 per charger, but I'm not sure I would want that on my electrical grid. We're by the way 02:16:54.320 --> 02:16:54.940 - single-phase 02:16:54.940 --> 02:16:57.020 - We don't have three-phase power. We have single-phase power 02:16:57.020 --> 02:17:03.100 - We have a residential so we don't even know if our if our panel has the capacity to do this 02:17:03.100 --> 02:17:05.100 - We haven't even we haven't gone there yet 02:17:05.100 --> 02:17:08.980 - Because we're single-phase. We're not a lot of commercial businesses or three-phase. We're not 02:17:08.980 --> 02:17:14.620 - All the way up to a good commercial charger that's not gonna blow up 02:17:14.620 --> 02:17:19.010 - You know about ten thousand dollars a piece for the good ones. So it can be fifty to sixty thousand 02:17:19.010 --> 02:17:19.420 - dollars 02:17:19.420 --> 02:17:21.420 - So it's it's significant 02:17:21.420 --> 02:17:24.940 - Then I just want to do ask a question. I think it's 02:17:25.580 --> 02:17:27.580 - For you Dan 02:17:27.580 --> 02:17:33.500 - On the buffer line type three 02:17:33.500 --> 02:17:40.230 - What's the distinction between what you would prefer? Is there an alternative to type three? Is it 02:17:40.230 --> 02:17:42.140 - type something else or? 02:17:42.140 --> 02:17:45.580 - Yeah, so this is the most the heaviest 02:17:45.580 --> 02:17:50.900 - Buffer yard in the code right now and it's nine trees for every 20 feet 02:17:52.100 --> 02:17:57.580 - And so we believe that a better alternative that the code 02:17:57.580 --> 02:18:00.980 - talks about in terms of shielding 02:18:00.980 --> 02:18:08.460 - Headlights and shielding cars from adjacent properties is what we're proposing is a full landscape 02:18:08.460 --> 02:18:10.940 - perimeter planting plan 02:18:10.940 --> 02:18:16.060 - And then you get shrubs with that that it's a little more dense. It almost will create a kind of 02:18:16.060 --> 02:18:19.200 - hedge, you know row rather than 02:18:20.100 --> 02:18:22.520 - Trees, you know plenty nine every 02:18:22.520 --> 02:18:26.300 - 20 feet is 02:18:26.300 --> 02:18:31.440 - more for the outskirts of your property and in this case, we don't feel like it makes sense because 02:18:31.440 --> 02:18:37.140 - Of the low the uniqueness of this property. You have the drainage mix with that's real low down 02:18:37.140 --> 02:18:37.460 - there 02:18:37.460 --> 02:18:39.760 - So we want to move those up towards 02:18:39.760 --> 02:18:46.940 - Our plan that has them right against the parking lot. And so then it would shield them in that way 02:18:46.940 --> 02:18:48.940 - And then keep the drainage way open 02:18:49.260 --> 02:18:53.280 - Does that answer your question? I think I talked. Yeah. Yeah, it does. Thank you 02:18:53.280 --> 02:18:56.780 - Anyone else 02:18:56.780 --> 02:19:03.580 - So John touched on the the buffer good question. I want to revisit it. Let me start with the city 02:19:03.580 --> 02:19:07.790 - I will come back to you Reverend because it has to do with the chargers again. Let's just go back 02:19:07.790 --> 02:19:08.220 - there 02:19:08.220 --> 02:19:11.540 - They can put a six kilowatt charger, right? 02:19:11.540 --> 02:19:16.560 - That meets do you have a minimum requirement of power? 02:19:16.980 --> 02:19:23.340 - So six kilowatts typically the the smallest that goes in takes like forever to charge a car 02:19:23.340 --> 02:19:29.160 - But they could put that in do you have as a city any idea what that would would cost? 02:19:29.160 --> 02:19:33.300 - Okay, so Reverend did you 02:19:33.300 --> 02:19:37.380 - Yeah, did you see a cost on the actual six kilowatt small charger? 02:19:37.380 --> 02:19:40.940 - I don't I don't remember what the kilowatt was 02:19:40.940 --> 02:19:45.780 - I just know that the cheapest ones were all marked for residential use only and 02:19:46.140 --> 02:19:51.660 - So I don't I don't know what that means as far as if if there are commercial six kilowatt chargers 02:19:51.660 --> 02:19:54.140 - I don't I also don't know a 02:19:54.140 --> 02:19:59.330 - Little broadening of your question. I don't know that I want to put a slow charger in that causes 02:19:59.330 --> 02:20:00.780 - people to leave their cars for longer 02:20:00.780 --> 02:20:05.870 - Understand that's the sort of a concern as well. So well, the reason I ask is because of the there's 02:20:05.870 --> 02:20:06.540 - a couple issues 02:20:06.540 --> 02:20:10.660 - I do want to just explore this a little bit. So make sure before we make a decision 02:20:10.660 --> 02:20:14.100 - But so there are commercial six kilowatt chargers 02:20:14.100 --> 02:20:17.900 - They are the smaller ones and essentially you'd have to probably be plugged in all night 02:20:17.900 --> 02:20:20.860 - And you would get a certain percentage you would never refill the car 02:20:20.860 --> 02:20:26.140 - In I don't know if you did a survey or anything 02:20:26.140 --> 02:20:31.480 - Hey, did you happen to look in and see where we lack chargers in the state in the city of Bloomington? 02:20:31.480 --> 02:20:38.140 - No, I all I know is the I think what sets our property apart is it's in a residential area 02:20:38.140 --> 02:20:42.100 - It's not a commercial area, you know, like if you were saying hey at home needs to put in chargers 02:20:42.100 --> 02:20:44.100 - I'd get it like we're in a residential area 02:20:44.100 --> 02:20:48.020 - We're not a place where people park and then go have lunch for example or park and go shop 02:20:48.020 --> 02:20:51.220 - It's like literally there's in the middle of a bunch of there's one 02:20:51.220 --> 02:20:59.120 - Station in the south southwest area and that's down by the Kroger down on the south side your area 02:20:59.120 --> 02:21:00.060 - on tap road 02:21:00.060 --> 02:21:06.300 - Is in that whole area that whole region on the west side. It has no chargers at all 02:21:06.300 --> 02:21:11.100 - Sure, so I do understand what the city's trying to do, which is when you have these larger spaces 02:21:11.780 --> 02:21:16.180 - I also have done a little research on this and I do know that there are 02:21:16.180 --> 02:21:20.060 - Charging a car is a little different than pulling into a gas station 02:21:20.060 --> 02:21:23.940 - all right, you do have to make sure you can go from station to station because we lack a 02:21:23.940 --> 02:21:30.680 - We lack the infrastructure so that charging stations are closer 02:21:30.680 --> 02:21:35.460 - So I do know that there are folks who would sometimes be quite grateful 02:21:35.460 --> 02:21:39.340 - That the church would have a charging station there because they need it in order to get from 02:21:39.340 --> 02:21:40.260 - station to station 02:21:40.460 --> 02:21:46.000 - So I do understand the need and especially in an area when I'm looking at the map of the city 02:21:46.000 --> 02:21:51.820 - That it's that it's it's just really it's missing. There's nothing there 02:21:51.820 --> 02:21:58.380 - For a long stretch so anything we can do to to service that's great 02:21:58.380 --> 02:22:04.130 - so I would encourage you if you're asked to do it to look at the slower chargers that are 02:22:04.130 --> 02:22:05.140 - commercial because 02:22:05.140 --> 02:22:09.740 - There is some value to it. It may be the thing that gets someone from point A to point B 02:22:10.140 --> 02:22:14.200 - Sure, it doesn't have to be a supercharger from Tesla. So that's that's one point 02:22:14.200 --> 02:22:16.220 - All right 02:22:16.220 --> 02:22:20.740 - The other is I've been watching this trend and I'm seeing more and more electric cars 02:22:20.740 --> 02:22:26.140 - So you're getting that I would bet among your congregation as well 02:22:26.140 --> 02:22:32.180 - Actually, if I can address that we've been watching Easter Sunday and Palm Sunday. We had zero 02:22:32.180 --> 02:22:33.180 - electric cars 02:22:33.460 --> 02:22:39.640 - Okay, so I would be surprised if I went out and checked on a day on a weekly basis that there will 02:22:39.640 --> 02:22:40.740 - be a conversion 02:22:40.740 --> 02:22:44.620 - I'm saying you're going to get more and more you're welcome services in 9-eleven. We love we'd love 02:22:44.620 --> 02:22:45.380 - for you to come join us 02:22:45.380 --> 02:22:50.820 - So the reason I bring that up is because the the argument that was made which is you know 02:22:50.820 --> 02:22:54.430 - The money could go elsewhere the money could do other things to could also be made about the 02:22:54.430 --> 02:22:56.020 - parking lot because you are parking 02:22:56.020 --> 02:22:59.580 - Cars on the street now, but you're choosing to move that parking onto your property 02:22:59.880 --> 02:23:05.070 - So you are investing money that could also go elsewhere. So you are making choices about how you 02:23:05.070 --> 02:23:06.240 - want to spend your money 02:23:06.240 --> 02:23:12.260 - So I don't want to just immediately write off a need that that area has 02:23:12.260 --> 02:23:17.120 - Based on our code. That's all I'm just saying and and that's and that's totally fair 02:23:17.120 --> 02:23:19.820 - I would just say the reason that we are pursuing 02:23:19.820 --> 02:23:23.100 - Additional parking is not to get cars off the street 02:23:23.100 --> 02:23:26.870 - We will still be parking cars on the street because we're not adding enough if you look at our 02:23:26.870 --> 02:23:27.460 - parking study 02:23:27.740 --> 02:23:31.180 - Especially on our big days. We're not adding enough parking to accommodate everyone 02:23:31.180 --> 02:23:35.380 - We're just trying to add enough parking to get where everyone who wants to come on a Sunday morning 02:23:35.380 --> 02:23:36.400 - can have a place to park 02:23:36.400 --> 02:23:39.580 - Yes, and I and I understand that and that's valid 02:23:39.580 --> 02:23:47.420 - But also the discussion of you know, no charging stations because it's the weekend only but then 02:23:47.420 --> 02:23:49.000 - you said that it's open every day 02:23:49.000 --> 02:23:50.020 - There's things going on 02:23:50.020 --> 02:23:54.340 - So I just want to draw attention that I want to use what you're talking about to say 02:23:54.340 --> 02:23:58.790 - I think there might be a value and that needs to be exported and that's it. That's kind of the end 02:23:58.790 --> 02:23:59.140 - of that 02:23:59.140 --> 02:24:01.140 - You've answered that 02:24:01.140 --> 02:24:03.300 - the 02:24:03.300 --> 02:24:05.080 - The other part about the buffer 02:24:05.080 --> 02:24:09.140 - I don't have an example to look at to see like what the two would look like so I'm not really sure 02:24:09.140 --> 02:24:10.080 - how to 02:24:10.080 --> 02:24:15.020 - Evaluate on my end what you know, what the difference is between what the city's 02:24:19.300 --> 02:24:24.320 - And you're describing it, but I'm just trying to this would be more Daniels. Yeah, is there any 02:24:24.320 --> 02:24:26.340 - imagery that you can show us of 02:24:26.340 --> 02:24:30.180 - What that that buffer would look like that you're asking us to consider? 02:24:30.180 --> 02:24:36.340 - You're saying the one that we're suggesting. Yes. Yeah, that's a that's a typical one that you 02:24:36.340 --> 02:24:39.020 - would see around most new parking lots 02:24:39.020 --> 02:24:41.020 - Now to make sure that there's no 02:24:41.020 --> 02:24:48.160 - You can't see the cars. You can't see the parking and that would be again up near where the 02:24:48.860 --> 02:24:54.060 - Parking lot is now so that you'd be seeing landscaping right now. The neighbors just see the park 02:24:54.060 --> 02:24:56.420 - Yeah, you're talking about like shrubbery and entry 02:24:56.420 --> 02:25:00.020 - I was just wondering if you had any visual representation because I'm trying to imagine 02:25:00.020 --> 02:25:06.380 - They're too new for like Street View or something like that 02:25:06.380 --> 02:25:09.340 - So I don't have any like on the ground, you know 02:25:09.340 --> 02:25:14.480 - But the petitioners landscape plan basically reflects just like what code requires in terms of 02:25:14.480 --> 02:25:16.620 - number of shrubs and trees based on the 02:25:16.620 --> 02:25:18.820 - 154 parking spaces 02:25:18.820 --> 02:25:23.630 - So the buffer yard provides more trees that are taller, you know, there's not really a shrub 02:25:23.630 --> 02:25:24.840 - requirement for the buffer yard 02:25:24.840 --> 02:25:29.860 - there are small trees and medium and large but you know, they grow and they 02:25:29.860 --> 02:25:32.860 - Hide the area over a longer term 02:25:32.860 --> 02:25:35.580 - Would the city have any objection to making that change? 02:25:35.580 --> 02:25:37.300 - to 02:25:37.300 --> 02:25:39.740 - to the petitioner suggestion well 02:25:39.740 --> 02:25:45.300 - So our concern would be that it doesn't do anything for the areas that are immediately adjacent to 02:25:45.300 --> 02:25:45.820 - that, you know 02:25:45.820 --> 02:25:50.030 - Puts landscaping immediately adjacent to their property in their parking area, but it doesn't put 02:25:50.030 --> 02:25:52.380 - that adjacent to the single-family residences 02:25:52.380 --> 02:25:55.580 - That would impact their view more 02:25:55.580 --> 02:26:11.940 - So the area work, excuse me there we're talking about as I'm looking at the 02:26:14.540 --> 02:26:21.620 - The plan that's in the packet that that Biden fan you the associates put together and 02:26:21.620 --> 02:26:29.900 - So directionally I may be a little off, but I think this area that's to these. What is it those? 02:26:29.900 --> 02:26:32.340 - kind of 02:26:32.340 --> 02:26:33.860 - southern 02:26:33.860 --> 02:26:35.620 - southwest 02:26:35.620 --> 02:26:39.060 - Diagonal at the back of the building. That's the photo that you showed 02:26:39.060 --> 02:26:42.580 - Between the two houses and the churches there, right? 02:26:42.580 --> 02:26:47.140 - I think he took that photo between the two houses that one that's from the city 02:26:47.140 --> 02:26:51.100 - That's a north, okay 02:26:51.100 --> 02:27:03.680 - You know we had to base our staff report on the criteria obviously and so that is where our 02:27:03.680 --> 02:27:04.720 - challenge lies 02:27:04.720 --> 02:27:05.680 - Is that you know? 02:27:05.680 --> 02:27:10.560 - We did not find that there was anything unique that did not allow them to put in the buffer yard as 02:27:10.560 --> 02:27:11.140 - required 02:27:11.260 --> 02:27:15.960 - We were offering a compromise given the length of the property 02:27:15.960 --> 02:27:21.300 - And what would be revolting required with that buffer yard to only require for half of that? 02:27:21.300 --> 02:27:23.700 - For the portions adjacent to the parking area 02:27:23.700 --> 02:27:25.380 - so I 02:27:25.380 --> 02:27:26.900 - I'm sorry 02:27:26.900 --> 02:27:29.260 - so Eric in your in the 02:27:29.260 --> 02:27:31.980 - packet I 02:27:31.980 --> 02:27:36.300 - Have no idea what page it is, but I think well that that image right there 02:27:38.140 --> 02:27:43.560 - The who owns the land where the retention ponds are I 02:27:43.560 --> 02:27:51.820 - Think that's owned by Westward ho which were the original developers. That's correct. Yeah, so then 02:27:51.820 --> 02:27:52.100 - the 02:27:52.100 --> 02:27:55.900 - The open space 02:27:55.900 --> 02:28:02.780 - North of that retention pond that's just kind of barren right now 02:28:02.780 --> 02:28:05.020 - that 02:28:05.020 --> 02:28:07.020 - How much of what's being proposed? 02:28:07.580 --> 02:28:10.380 - I don't see anything that's being proposed that 02:28:10.380 --> 02:28:15.180 - Is that's where the city wants to see additional landscaping? 02:28:15.180 --> 02:28:18.420 - Beyond what was submitted by Bannon fine thing 02:28:18.420 --> 02:28:18.860 - No 02:28:18.860 --> 02:28:23.000 - so so on the screen here where that red line that kind of indicates the extent of where the 02:28:23.000 --> 02:28:27.540 - Existing parking is and then where the existing or their proposed parking extends north 02:28:27.540 --> 02:28:33.680 - So our condition of approval was just the buffer yard along those portions of the property where 02:28:33.680 --> 02:28:34.700 - the parking is 02:28:36.220 --> 02:28:38.220 - yeah, okay, I 02:28:38.220 --> 02:28:47.450 - Did have a question on the setback which is what was the rationale for building it so close to the 02:28:47.450 --> 02:28:47.740 - street 02:28:47.740 --> 02:28:52.060 - But since it's so long way, why not build it towards the back of the property and longer? 02:28:52.060 --> 02:28:55.700 - Yeah, so we we studied 02:28:55.700 --> 02:29:02.860 - The entire property and chose the best possible place that would 02:29:03.420 --> 02:29:08.820 - Connect the current parking lot and provide it closest to the doors 02:29:08.820 --> 02:29:14.140 - There was a need especially for an older crowd to not have parking down the street 02:29:14.140 --> 02:29:18.460 - So we're connecting the existing parking lot to it 02:29:18.460 --> 02:29:23.830 - But also it's the best place to hide the parking that was the reason for one of my photos in the 02:29:23.830 --> 02:29:24.300 - packet 02:29:24.300 --> 02:29:27.180 - Is that when you're driving along Adams it would be below 02:29:27.740 --> 02:29:33.520 - Adams Street and then if you put it on the south side, you would you would it would be exposed you'd 02:29:33.520 --> 02:29:34.420 - be able to see it more 02:29:34.420 --> 02:29:39.780 - That was so after study. This was felt like the best possible place to 02:29:39.780 --> 02:29:43.600 - For all parties and for the general public. Yeah 02:29:43.600 --> 02:29:48.730 - I was looking at that north eastern section there between the existing parking lot and the tree on 02:29:48.730 --> 02:29:49.620 - the north park 02:29:49.620 --> 02:29:54.260 - I just wondered why that wasn't expanded there and that way you didn't run into the setback 02:29:54.500 --> 02:29:59.860 - Because I do think the city's been trying to stay away from pushing parking out to the street. So 02:29:59.860 --> 02:30:03.040 - But Eric, you're saying the city is okay with that 02:30:03.040 --> 02:30:09.760 - Yeah, yes, so we were supporting the parking setback parents 02:30:09.760 --> 02:30:13.620 - And you said that because why because it is in 02:30:13.620 --> 02:30:17.220 - Several factors here one was the corner location 02:30:17.220 --> 02:30:21.560 - So I could not do anything on the north side of the building because you've got countryside to the 02:30:21.560 --> 02:30:22.260 - north of this 02:30:22.780 --> 02:30:25.660 - You know, you've got to topography drop off to the east of this 02:30:25.660 --> 02:30:29.140 - That doesn't really allow that to be utilized and then again to the south 02:30:29.140 --> 02:30:31.700 - You've got a topography change and drainage issues 02:30:31.700 --> 02:30:35.580 - So, you know where the petitioner was choosing to put it to parking was the only really available 02:30:35.580 --> 02:30:37.180 - spot, you know 02:30:37.180 --> 02:30:41.550 - And as I've mentioned, you know, they're not requesting variances from parking numbers, right? So 02:30:41.550 --> 02:30:42.660 - they're within that allowance 02:30:42.660 --> 02:30:47.440 - Okay, that's what I want to clarify. I believe that was all said in in the presentation 02:30:47.440 --> 02:30:52.690 - I just want to make sure that's really clear. Yes, because that is something that people will look 02:30:52.690 --> 02:30:52.920 - at 02:30:52.920 --> 02:30:56.220 - Yeah, and why so close to the street so that that's helpful 02:30:56.220 --> 02:30:56.980 - Thank you 02:30:56.980 --> 02:31:01.250 - And the fact that they were able to meet all of the landscaping requirements for that new parking 02:31:01.250 --> 02:31:02.980 - area that helps visually buffer that 02:31:02.980 --> 02:31:08.520 - one of the question then for city and this goes to address the petitioner, which is if if someone 02:31:08.520 --> 02:31:10.020 - were to make a motion and 02:31:10.020 --> 02:31:14.180 - they wanted to address the idea of allowing for a change on the 02:31:14.180 --> 02:31:17.100 - the type of 02:31:17.320 --> 02:31:18.560 - plantings 02:31:18.560 --> 02:31:21.120 - You were talking about I what are they the buffer zone? 02:31:21.120 --> 02:31:25.640 - Would would someone be able to add that to the motion 02:31:25.640 --> 02:31:30.080 - Yes, so you can certainly modify the condition of approval 02:31:30.080 --> 02:31:35.020 - You know the condition of approval says that a type 3 buffer yard is required along 02:31:35.020 --> 02:31:40.270 - You know the the section of the property you can modify that condition and say you know a type 1 02:31:40.270 --> 02:31:40.960 - buffer yard 02:31:40.960 --> 02:31:45.200 - More type 2 or something is required and then modify whatever of course we'd have findings to go 02:31:45.200 --> 02:31:46.000 - along with that 02:31:46.000 --> 02:31:48.480 - I just want to well you don't have to necessarily make findings, you know 02:31:48.480 --> 02:31:49.660 - As long as you are approved, you know 02:31:49.660 --> 02:31:52.920 - We made findings to support the variance for the buffer yard 02:31:52.920 --> 02:31:58.460 - but with the limitation of the condition that it's only for that this portion on the red and you 02:31:58.460 --> 02:31:59.280 - know a 02:31:59.280 --> 02:32:02.960 - Type 3 but you can modify that condition without modifying the findings 02:32:02.960 --> 02:32:06.800 - Okay, because I do think we could actually if we needed to so that's why I was asking 02:32:06.800 --> 02:32:11.430 - So I don't know what the motion will be but I wanted to get that out of the way should it occur any 02:32:11.430 --> 02:32:12.520 - other questions 02:32:12.520 --> 02:32:15.760 - real quick, I think 02:32:15.880 --> 02:32:19.600 - Coming back to the EV stations and I totally agree with what what Joe's saying 02:32:19.600 --> 02:32:23.600 - We need more of them obviously, but I guess to staff or an Eric 02:32:23.600 --> 02:32:29.010 - Is this something that we considering that it is a residential neighborhood? That's the thing about 02:32:29.010 --> 02:32:30.640 - it. Are we encouraging? 02:32:30.640 --> 02:32:35.900 - I think there's a fine balance with this maybe putting a couple in because then we have some but 02:32:35.900 --> 02:32:36.320 - also 02:32:36.320 --> 02:32:42.350 - It's a city encouraging if things like this continue to evolve in residential neighborhoods. Are we 02:32:42.350 --> 02:32:44.480 - going to encourage EV stations? 02:32:44.480 --> 02:32:49.010 - Because I think there is a there's an oddity to that if you have people just cruising through a 02:32:49.010 --> 02:32:51.080 - neighborhood to plug in 02:32:51.080 --> 02:32:53.600 - overnight 02:32:53.600 --> 02:32:58.330 - Is the city considering that as a back? Yeah, so, you know, I'm always careful with the word 02:32:58.330 --> 02:32:59.520 - encouraging, you know 02:32:59.520 --> 02:33:03.740 - So the UDO requires them when you have parking lots over 50 spaces 02:33:03.740 --> 02:33:09.700 - So, you know when you have a use that has that many parking spaces, you know, hopefully over time 02:33:10.400 --> 02:33:14.900 - You're gonna have a certain percentage of people driving electric vehicles and so you want to 02:33:14.900 --> 02:33:17.080 - provide services for those folks 02:33:17.080 --> 02:33:19.080 - So not every use has to do this 02:33:19.080 --> 02:33:24.480 - You know, it's just multifamily for the most part commercial, you know industrial employment things 02:33:24.480 --> 02:33:27.420 - Where you're going to have a large amount of surface parking areas 02:33:27.420 --> 02:33:32.400 - And so you provide for people that will be provided parking there and you needing that service 02:33:32.400 --> 02:33:35.820 - So, you know likewise across the street for Regency 02:33:36.440 --> 02:33:40.110 - Apartments, you know if they were to expand and do something because they've got more than 50 02:33:40.110 --> 02:33:40.480 - spaces 02:33:40.480 --> 02:33:45.220 - They would have to install those and so, you know, there's a wide range of uses that came in 02:33:45.220 --> 02:33:46.160 - obviously before this 02:33:46.160 --> 02:33:48.600 - Provision and the code was in place 02:33:48.600 --> 02:33:53.720 - But we want these to happen and so that's that's how you get them is certain triggers 02:33:53.720 --> 02:33:58.240 - That somebody is choosing to do or that they're going through that requires us to be installed 02:33:58.240 --> 02:34:02.920 - So, you know the UTO encourages those as a requirement. Okay. Thank you for that 02:34:02.920 --> 02:34:08.250 - So, you know, I want to piggyback off that there's there's two sides to this. It's a problem for 02:34:08.250 --> 02:34:09.680 - the for the church, which is 02:34:09.680 --> 02:34:16.870 - The larger issue that the Reverend brought it which is the idea of let's just say nefarious folks 02:34:16.870 --> 02:34:17.580 - coming in 02:34:17.580 --> 02:34:22.120 - During the day when you're open on a Monday, you have child care something going on 02:34:22.120 --> 02:34:26.590 - They part the car there if it's a slow charge doesn't matter what kind of charge it is. They look 02:34:26.590 --> 02:34:26.880 - around 02:34:26.880 --> 02:34:30.400 - Is there a bathroom da-da-da? I mean because that's what you would normally find at a charging 02:34:30.400 --> 02:34:32.320 - station at some 02:34:33.120 --> 02:34:35.120 - parking I'm sorry 02:34:35.120 --> 02:34:41.440 - Shopping mall area. Okay, so I think that's a very valid issue to be concerned about 02:34:41.440 --> 02:34:47.770 - But on the flip side you have the issue of it's a residential area and most people who are looking 02:34:47.770 --> 02:34:49.240 - for a charger are not 02:34:49.240 --> 02:34:53.600 - Really looking for a slow charge in a residential area. They're looking for a 02:34:53.600 --> 02:34:57.720 - Fast charger in a parking lot of like blows 02:34:57.760 --> 02:35:04.480 - So my point there is that if chargers were to go in if we were to request it 02:35:04.480 --> 02:35:09.680 - My belief is because of an influx of more and more people buying those 02:35:09.680 --> 02:35:13.900 - it actually would be doing a service for the residential area for those who need it until such time 02:35:13.900 --> 02:35:14.960 - as they get their own or 02:35:14.960 --> 02:35:17.120 - They just may need it for the short term 02:35:17.120 --> 02:35:22.120 - So it's a really difficult question because of what you just brought up is this is an odd 02:35:22.880 --> 02:35:27.920 - Location for these to be to exist. I'm sorry. Did Reverend would you have something to add to that 02:35:27.920 --> 02:35:29.180 - in those two conditions? 02:35:29.180 --> 02:35:33.880 - No, I appreciate that. I appreciate seeing both sides of that 02:35:33.880 --> 02:35:38.850 - We certainly see both sides of that, you know as as a guy who has to pay the insurance on the 02:35:38.850 --> 02:35:39.240 - property 02:35:39.240 --> 02:35:43.410 - the liability is one of my biggest concerns and also a guy who have four grandkids who were in 02:35:43.410 --> 02:35:44.920 - there on Tuesday nights because 02:35:44.920 --> 02:35:48.200 - their parents have small group and and so I'm concerned about 02:35:48.680 --> 02:35:53.240 - people wandering around the building and those kinds of things and and and I certainly don't expect 02:35:53.240 --> 02:35:54.640 - that anybody other than me is going to 02:35:54.640 --> 02:35:59.320 - Be liable for anything that happens. So that's a that's a serious concern for us 02:35:59.320 --> 02:36:04.600 - But and we've stated that so I appreciate that how many are we asking for three or six? 02:36:04.600 --> 02:36:10.690 - Electric chargers six six. Okay, mr. Thorpe Morton if I can make a point these don't have to be 02:36:10.690 --> 02:36:11.040 - public 02:36:11.040 --> 02:36:15.040 - It's it's not like we're setting up a charging station for the public, right? 02:36:15.040 --> 02:36:19.800 - So like when you build an apartment complex and the code requires electric charging stations 02:36:19.800 --> 02:36:25.130 - The idea is right that the people who live there who might have vehicles that need that can be 02:36:25.130 --> 02:36:26.440 - charged can charge them while they're 02:36:26.440 --> 02:36:28.440 - Home so in the same vein 02:36:28.440 --> 02:36:34.160 - These can be put in and only be for people who are using the church you beat me to it 02:36:34.160 --> 02:36:38.740 - Because they they don't have to be like on the shell network 02:36:38.740 --> 02:36:44.330 - They don't have to be on the EV that you can have it restricted for the people that have a code or 02:36:44.330 --> 02:36:44.940 - a card 02:36:45.420 --> 02:36:49.570 - access granted like the point you made it would be maybe it would be nice for this to be a spot on 02:36:49.570 --> 02:36:50.180 - a chain of 02:36:50.180 --> 02:36:54.020 - Car charging stations, but they don't that's not what the code is asking for 02:36:54.020 --> 02:36:58.750 - It's just saying you have to put them in and then if you have enough users that you require this 02:36:58.750 --> 02:37:01.020 - extensive, you know parking expansion 02:37:01.020 --> 02:37:05.750 - It seems that over time you may have six people who would like to plug in while they're there for 02:37:05.750 --> 02:37:07.060 - small group for two hours 02:37:07.060 --> 02:37:10.620 - On Tuesday night or whatever. That's so it's the option for it's like 02:37:10.980 --> 02:37:14.980 - Realizing that if you're driving an electric vehicle places that you frequent like your home or 02:37:14.980 --> 02:37:16.100 - your church or a business 02:37:16.100 --> 02:37:21.670 - Can offer you the ability to charge like I said, so you beat me to that point which was that's the 02:37:21.670 --> 02:37:22.260 - that's okay 02:37:22.260 --> 02:37:24.980 - That's great that you brought it up. But that is the next point which is 02:37:24.980 --> 02:37:30.790 - You can certainly drive into a charger anywhere and that doesn't mean that you're gonna be able to 02:37:30.790 --> 02:37:31.260 - use it 02:37:31.260 --> 02:37:38.180 - Because they they have different ways of payment and access so which which is to Jackie's point. 02:37:38.180 --> 02:37:38.340 - Yes 02:37:39.820 --> 02:37:44.620 - And that we have we are aware that we could restrict that and that 02:37:44.620 --> 02:37:49.380 - If we were to restrict it to the point where we feel like we're not allowing to use it 02:37:49.380 --> 02:37:53.820 - That's partially why we we would just ask for them not to be there if there wasn't 02:37:53.820 --> 02:38:00.060 - Because we feel like if this was at a commercial business where there is a regular user 02:38:00.060 --> 02:38:05.830 - It's a daily use or there's people that would regularly come in and out in this case. We feel like 02:38:05.830 --> 02:38:06.580 - the number of 02:38:07.420 --> 02:38:10.020 - Charging stations that are being proposed 02:38:10.020 --> 02:38:15.460 - Just based off of the number of proposed parking spaces alone isn't 02:38:15.460 --> 02:38:21.950 - We don't feel as representative of what the need actually is or what and so that's why we're 02:38:21.950 --> 02:38:23.860 - partially what she just mentioned 02:38:23.860 --> 02:38:27.060 - So if we're gonna go that route and then restrict them, we would just ask 02:38:27.060 --> 02:38:32.020 - If we would do little or none, that's that's partially my point 02:38:32.020 --> 02:38:34.620 - I mean sense and it does fall under that idea if it may not be 02:38:35.140 --> 02:38:40.580 - Obvious or a big need or a need at all currently but it is this idea of looking forward because 02:38:40.580 --> 02:38:41.900 - things are changing 02:38:41.900 --> 02:38:44.660 - I'm seeing it and that's why I'm taking the time to 02:38:44.660 --> 02:38:48.780 - Discuss it is that you know even a church 02:38:48.780 --> 02:38:52.280 - with those these valid arguments you have to 02:38:52.280 --> 02:38:57.620 - Realize that their congregation will be changing along those lines as well. The the statistics just 02:38:57.620 --> 02:38:58.300 - indicate it 02:38:58.300 --> 02:39:03.010 - So I'm just trying to balance that I get what you're trying to do. Are you trying to balance the 02:39:03.010 --> 02:39:03.380 - economics? 02:39:04.100 --> 02:39:06.860 - Also the current need I get that but looking ahead 02:39:06.860 --> 02:39:13.690 - Yeah, and just I think there's been a few different reasons why and I think sometimes we're hitting 02:39:13.690 --> 02:39:15.120 - heavy on it's financial 02:39:15.120 --> 02:39:17.580 - But remember there's three things 02:39:17.580 --> 02:39:23.420 - Financial we feel like the use is not conducive to a normal commercial use because it's more of a 02:39:23.420 --> 02:39:29.660 - weekend heavy deal for even the use of the entirety of the parking lot and then also 02:39:30.300 --> 02:39:37.140 - just the intent of what they will actually be used for where normal people would say that let's go 02:39:37.140 --> 02:39:38.340 - and plug in as we're 02:39:38.340 --> 02:39:43.820 - going, you know to a business or going inside in this case, we feel that it may be 02:39:43.820 --> 02:39:49.800 - used in a act of just neighbors coming around and not really being too interested in the 02:39:49.800 --> 02:39:55.540 - business per se but just kind of coming from the neighborhood and inviting more people in that 02:39:55.940 --> 02:40:01.670 - Maybe would abuse that so that's I feel like there's three reasons just right. I understand and and 02:40:01.670 --> 02:40:02.940 - I think we've hit all those 02:40:02.940 --> 02:40:05.940 - So thank you for that at this point 02:40:05.940 --> 02:40:10.440 - Let's go to the public for comment and then we'll still remember we have time 02:40:10.440 --> 02:40:15.850 - Still for you at the end is anyone here in the public who'd like to speak if so all of those that 02:40:15.850 --> 02:40:16.820 - are interested 02:40:16.820 --> 02:40:23.190 - Please come over towards the podium sign in and then we'll take it one at a time each of you'll 02:40:23.190 --> 02:40:24.140 - have five minutes to talk 02:40:24.180 --> 02:40:26.180 - and 02:40:26.180 --> 02:40:33.140 - Also, if you could ask online if anyone's online would like to get in the queue would be nice 02:40:33.140 --> 02:40:39.980 - Give me your and go ahead and hand the the sheet back so he can sign him while you're talking 02:40:39.980 --> 02:40:44.420 - And give me your first and last name Derek Britt Derek 02:40:44.420 --> 02:40:47.610 - Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give us the truth the whole truth and nothing but 02:40:47.610 --> 02:40:48.140 - the truth? 02:40:48.140 --> 02:40:53.070 - Yes, go ahead. You have five minutes. Please. Thank you. I live actually in the neighborhood near 02:40:53.070 --> 02:40:53.700 - the church 02:40:53.860 --> 02:40:57.180 - About a five-minute walk away from the church. I'm a parent of two 02:40:57.180 --> 02:41:01.300 - I have two boys that are 11 and 8 and they've lived in that neighborhood their whole lives 02:41:01.300 --> 02:41:06.450 - So I have a little bit of context on some of those issues as a member and I'm a dad that cares 02:41:06.450 --> 02:41:07.700 - about the safety of 02:41:07.700 --> 02:41:11.780 - My kids obviously and the kids in our community and there's some unique reasons for that in our 02:41:11.780 --> 02:41:12.340 - community 02:41:12.340 --> 02:41:16.400 - Specifically with parking and traffic and things like that some of the history there 02:41:16.400 --> 02:41:20.940 - So I wanted to speak to that and some of the safety issues with why I feel like the parking is 02:41:20.940 --> 02:41:21.620 - necessary 02:41:21.940 --> 02:41:24.580 - But then also I want to speak to the EV issue as well 02:41:24.580 --> 02:41:31.140 - But first the expansion for me when I heard about it is about safety not just convenience for the 02:41:31.140 --> 02:41:31.580 - church 02:41:31.580 --> 02:41:35.380 - Specifically the second entrance and some of the things that they're trying to work through 02:41:35.380 --> 02:41:40.870 - Anybody who's had to navigate the church parking lot on a Sunday could tell you that this is a 02:41:40.870 --> 02:41:43.660 - challenging environment and really 02:41:43.660 --> 02:41:48.830 - I I guess because I think you understand that and see some of those things. I won't belabor that 02:41:48.830 --> 02:41:49.060 - point 02:41:49.420 --> 02:41:52.780 - I would just use summit elementary as an example 02:41:52.780 --> 02:41:59.830 - Some you may remember that summit was set up very similarly and had a an entrance and exit that was 02:41:59.830 --> 02:42:00.300 - all in one place 02:42:00.300 --> 02:42:06.170 - And the crossing guard that was there Terry that we that I knew well because I walked my kids to 02:42:06.170 --> 02:42:06.900 - school every day 02:42:06.900 --> 02:42:10.260 - Actually got hit by one of the cars coming into that lot 02:42:10.260 --> 02:42:14.930 - And I mean this is a little graphic but I mean I'm walking my seven-year-old to school and there's 02:42:14.930 --> 02:42:16.140 - blood stains on the ground 02:42:16.140 --> 02:42:19.220 - And you know, so it's like one of those things where it's like man. This is crazy 02:42:19.220 --> 02:42:21.540 - This is crazy. And then one day something happens, you know 02:42:21.540 --> 02:42:27.460 - And I do feel our our security some of them are here that that work on this every Sunday 02:42:27.460 --> 02:42:31.660 - which I'm really grateful for but they're just up with some unique challenges because 02:42:31.660 --> 02:42:35.860 - It really narrows the road a bunch because you've got parking on both sides 02:42:35.860 --> 02:42:40.030 - Then you've got you know people exiting and they try to space the services out and make sure that 02:42:40.030 --> 02:42:40.700 - all that is good 02:42:40.700 --> 02:42:43.260 - My kids like to ride their bikes to school. They can't really do that 02:42:43.260 --> 02:42:47.200 - at least for me if it's too close to you know to an 02:42:47.900 --> 02:42:50.700 - Dismissal time or whatever just because it's too it's too scary 02:42:50.700 --> 02:42:56.100 - I I love the idea of being able to control that traffic a little bit better. I've lived actually 02:42:56.100 --> 02:42:57.020 - all around the church 02:42:57.020 --> 02:43:02.310 - I lived on the backside and shared property essentially with the church my kids played soccer back 02:43:02.310 --> 02:43:02.800 - there on the 02:43:02.800 --> 02:43:05.820 - Well on one of those pictures you can see all that grass 02:43:05.820 --> 02:43:11.950 - You know using the pond fishing in the pond that kind of stuff. That's the way the church is in 02:43:11.950 --> 02:43:13.060 - this neighborhood 02:43:13.060 --> 02:43:17.050 - So I appreciate you're bringing up that residential component because it really is unique and 02:43:17.050 --> 02:43:17.620 - different 02:43:18.420 --> 02:43:23.110 - But it makes me think differently if you know the makeup of the community's a bunch of condos a 02:43:23.110 --> 02:43:24.660 - bunch of young families 02:43:24.660 --> 02:43:27.800 - Kind of on one side and they're building more and more out that way 02:43:27.800 --> 02:43:31.370 - Which some of them are probably disappointed that they got more and more parking lots going out 02:43:31.370 --> 02:43:33.140 - that way when they look the other direction 02:43:33.140 --> 02:43:37.180 - But you have a lot of kids in that neighborhood a lot of people walking their dogs 02:43:37.180 --> 02:43:42.190 - I mean this church sits right in the middle is hundreds and hundreds of homes and for me the EV 02:43:42.190 --> 02:43:42.820 - charging 02:43:42.820 --> 02:43:45.380 - Stations and I can appreciate that last comment 02:43:45.380 --> 02:43:47.180 - about 02:43:47.180 --> 02:43:50.920 - How you know you can put in different charging stations and you don't have to make them available 02:43:50.920 --> 02:43:51.380 - to the public 02:43:51.380 --> 02:43:55.360 - And actually there's a lot of communities around the country that have installed them and then 02:43:55.360 --> 02:43:56.280 - communities have said hey 02:43:56.280 --> 02:43:57.380 - Why are we doing this? 02:43:57.380 --> 02:44:00.900 - You know when it's right next to an elementary school and then they've made a restriction that only 02:44:00.900 --> 02:44:05.020 - the people that work at the institution can actually use the the chargers and 02:44:05.020 --> 02:44:08.900 - So they start shutting them down in the in the school year and you can only use it in the summer 02:44:08.900 --> 02:44:11.540 - And I think if we're looking at Joe's 02:44:11.540 --> 02:44:14.520 - suggestion specifically which is about 02:44:15.620 --> 02:44:18.480 - The west side which you know, I'm for that expansion 02:44:18.480 --> 02:44:23.880 - But I think it if that's the to me, that's a great argument that we need this 02:44:23.880 --> 02:44:28.560 - I don't know if it's a great argument in my this is my opinion to have 02:44:28.560 --> 02:44:31.900 - You know six chargers there just in case somebody wants to use them 02:44:31.900 --> 02:44:34.780 - I don't know if that's like the intent here 02:44:34.780 --> 02:44:38.700 - I think the intent of the code is is that we're expanding this for public use 02:44:38.700 --> 02:44:41.700 - Well, we're using it in a public way in my opinion 02:44:42.460 --> 02:44:45.660 - With that many kids in the neighborhood and you got people that are using 02:44:45.660 --> 02:44:51.630 - The playground you got people that are just all around in this space having chargers that people 02:44:51.630 --> 02:44:53.020 - are using for a couple hours at 02:44:53.020 --> 02:44:56.940 - A time you're now messing. I mean, I don't want to be you know 02:44:56.940 --> 02:45:01.670 - Alarmist or whatever about you know, what could happen and that the insurance things are for him to 02:45:01.670 --> 02:45:03.140 - deal with but for me 02:45:03.140 --> 02:45:05.140 - It's it's thinking about 02:45:05.940 --> 02:45:11.840 - Kind of just the influx in and out strangers in that residential area where people all know each 02:45:11.840 --> 02:45:12.820 - other's names 02:45:12.820 --> 02:45:17.180 - And it's just a weird dynamic to play out and for me 02:45:17.180 --> 02:45:22.430 - I don't I don't totally understand why this on the west side would be the expansion point in the 02:45:22.430 --> 02:45:24.100 - center of that space 02:45:24.100 --> 02:45:26.980 - and so for me I 02:45:26.980 --> 02:45:30.920 - Personally would feel pretty strong. I think and the other thing is you're not really asking the 02:45:30.920 --> 02:45:31.380 - neighbors 02:45:31.860 --> 02:45:35.170 - Right now we're talking about well, you know the church you might want to do this and you might 02:45:35.170 --> 02:45:36.060 - want to serve people in 02:45:36.060 --> 02:45:37.180 - This way, you know 02:45:37.180 --> 02:45:41.430 - But are people really interested in inviting this and kind of messing with the character of that 02:45:41.430 --> 02:45:43.780 - neighborhood when we don't really know what it's like 02:45:43.780 --> 02:45:48.030 - Yeah, I mean we don't you may not know, you know what that's gonna do to that community and it is 02:45:48.030 --> 02:45:49.280 - unique in Bloomington 02:45:49.280 --> 02:45:51.600 - So that's my piece, but I appreciate the time 02:45:51.600 --> 02:45:55.700 - Thank you and 02:45:55.700 --> 02:45:58.380 - State your first and last name 02:45:58.380 --> 02:46:03.350 - My name is Dennis Turner and do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give us the truth the 02:46:03.350 --> 02:46:04.020 - whole truth and nothing 02:46:04.020 --> 02:46:06.980 - But the truth I do. Absolutely. Thank you. You have five minutes 02:46:06.980 --> 02:46:13.030 - thank you so much for taking the time not only to hear us tonight, but all the others that you hear 02:46:13.030 --> 02:46:13.340 - and 02:46:13.340 --> 02:46:19.920 - Dealing with the the detail and the precision that makes Bloomington the kind of welcoming 02:46:19.920 --> 02:46:21.380 - community that it is 02:46:21.380 --> 02:46:25.820 - I have been attending cornerstone for 25 years 02:46:25.820 --> 02:46:30.780 - I was a young man then and I'm part of that older crowd that was referenced earlier 02:46:30.780 --> 02:46:36.280 - And so my presence here tonight is to is to appeal to you as you hear 02:46:36.280 --> 02:46:43.060 - this presentation to understand that Bloomington is is a is a 02:46:43.060 --> 02:46:45.460 - throbbing 02:46:45.460 --> 02:46:51.860 - Spotlight out for retirees and I know you all have worked hard and your colleagues have worked hard 02:46:51.980 --> 02:46:57.060 - To make Bloomington the kind of place that welcomes, you know all ages 02:46:57.060 --> 02:47:03.840 - And one of the things I've enjoyed about cornerstone in my 25 years is that it is it is beautifully 02:47:03.840 --> 02:47:04.540 - Bloomington 02:47:04.540 --> 02:47:08.020 - It is diverse. It is it is 02:47:08.020 --> 02:47:16.200 - there the ages are all across the board one of the things that I appreciate as a veteran human is 02:47:16.200 --> 02:47:17.440 - being able to rub 02:47:17.460 --> 02:47:23.700 - Shoulders and to share heart and to share concerns with those generations that are younger than me 02:47:23.700 --> 02:47:30.030 - my wife teaches we've been in education all of our years and my my wife has gone back to help out a 02:47:30.030 --> 02:47:31.340 - second grade class and 02:47:31.340 --> 02:47:34.820 - And she was surprised delighted and a bit 02:47:34.820 --> 02:47:40.180 - Exacerbated when when one of the students said to her you even taught my grandmother 02:47:40.340 --> 02:47:48.300 - So so I have been able to see in my 25 years how not only the community has grown but as the church 02:47:48.300 --> 02:47:51.220 - Has served and has been a steward to the community 02:47:51.220 --> 02:47:57.540 - So my presence here tonight is to thank you for entertaining this this request and the fact that 02:47:57.540 --> 02:47:58.540 - that it 02:47:58.540 --> 02:48:03.340 - Harmonizes with everything that Bloomington stands for and that is the fact that you are 02:48:04.020 --> 02:48:10.460 - I if I understood correctly from the email that I get from your your senior community newsletter 02:48:10.460 --> 02:48:13.180 - Is that you may become the first? 02:48:13.180 --> 02:48:20.090 - country the country's first beeline trail collaboration collaboration for a lifetime community 02:48:20.090 --> 02:48:20.860 - district and 02:48:20.860 --> 02:48:23.380 - Also, you're one of the five 02:48:23.380 --> 02:48:28.260 - National community not just agenda, but a gender 02:48:28.260 --> 02:48:33.740 - sites and I certainly fit into that as being a part of the the 02:48:34.380 --> 02:48:36.380 - generation that can appreciate 02:48:36.380 --> 02:48:41.850 - everything that's happened in Bloomington over the years in the 25 years that I have been here not 02:48:41.850 --> 02:48:43.220 - only as a student but as a 02:48:43.220 --> 02:48:46.620 - as an educator and now as a member of 02:48:46.620 --> 02:48:49.540 - cornerstone and 02:48:49.540 --> 02:48:57.040 - When I think of extra parking space not all of those contemporary not all of my peer group has a 02:48:57.540 --> 02:49:02.350 - Sticker in their their their dash that says, you know, they their vault they can park anywhere 02:49:02.350 --> 02:49:03.860 - because they're disabled 02:49:03.860 --> 02:49:09.420 - But I can't tell you that of the I will say a hundred and fifty to two hundred is probably a small 02:49:09.420 --> 02:49:16.300 - Exaggeration not really a hundred and fifty to two hundred in my peer group that do come on 02:49:16.300 --> 02:49:23.940 - weekends and in other events and so having additional parking will certainly make it easier for 02:49:23.940 --> 02:49:25.780 - for them to 02:49:25.780 --> 02:49:31.300 - To access the church again. Thank you for your service and for the time here tonight. I 02:49:31.300 --> 02:49:37.340 - Do know that we have one hand raised I believe I saw it earlier. Is that correct? 02:49:37.340 --> 02:49:45.540 - Okay, anyone else in in chambers who'd like to address 02:49:45.540 --> 02:49:50.940 - Petition otherwise, I I do believe I saw someone raise their hand 02:49:54.940 --> 02:49:56.940 - 02:49:56.940 --> 02:50:12.260 - Alright, thank you very much. My name is Mark Teller. I live at two five eight three South Addison 02:50:12.260 --> 02:50:17.520 - Okay, my and mark hold on. Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give us the truth the 02:50:17.520 --> 02:50:18.340 - whole truth and nothing with 02:50:18.340 --> 02:50:19.340 - the truth 02:50:19.340 --> 02:50:21.340 - Yes, you have five minutes 02:50:21.340 --> 02:50:23.820 - Thank you as I was saying 02:50:23.980 --> 02:50:26.900 - I live across Adam Street 02:50:26.900 --> 02:50:29.780 - my front door overlooks 02:50:29.780 --> 02:50:36.100 - What will be the parking lot and right in front of me will be the entrance? 02:50:36.100 --> 02:50:41.780 - To say that my family is against this is an understatement 02:50:41.780 --> 02:50:46.220 - I've never heard a church so disparagingly refer to 02:50:46.220 --> 02:50:51.020 - Strangers, I'm shocked and appalled to be honest about that 02:50:52.340 --> 02:50:56.020 - People needing a charge on their on their cars aren't criminals 02:50:56.020 --> 02:51:02.180 - so that first second off, I just want to apparently I have to 02:51:02.180 --> 02:51:06.460 - Justify myself. I am a 02:51:06.460 --> 02:51:12.130 - Sorry, I got my daughter on my lap. I am a founding board member of the Bloomington homeless 02:51:12.130 --> 02:51:13.340 - coalition my wife who? 02:51:13.340 --> 02:51:16.060 - owns the house 02:51:16.060 --> 02:51:18.300 - Works at Shalom Center 02:51:18.300 --> 02:51:23.620 - If you guys want to play the righteous game, we have you be she runs the homeless shelter here in 02:51:23.620 --> 02:51:24.080 - town 02:51:24.080 --> 02:51:26.660 - So if you guys want to play the the righteous 02:51:26.660 --> 02:51:30.960 - Game, it's on both sides. We're all righteous here. Okay 02:51:30.960 --> 02:51:35.380 - A lot of stuff was said that kind of hints to why I'm against all of this 02:51:35.380 --> 02:51:41.260 - Church use is different. My nature was a phrase that was used earlier used only on weekend 02:51:41.260 --> 02:51:46.940 - So this is a temporary problem that they are proposing permanent solutions for that affect 02:51:47.380 --> 02:51:49.380 - all of us around 02:51:49.380 --> 02:51:54.850 - They want to provide for the community, but they don't want to provide electricity for EVs for the 02:51:54.850 --> 02:51:55.540 - community 02:51:55.540 --> 02:52:01.380 - They want to be good neighbors. None of this was run by us. We bought this house because of the 02:52:01.380 --> 02:52:01.980 - green space 02:52:01.980 --> 02:52:04.740 - possible loss of you know 02:52:04.740 --> 02:52:13.060 - That plus we park on Adams Street, that's where we have to put our cars and if I'm not able to park 02:52:13.060 --> 02:52:13.900 - on Adams Street 02:52:13.900 --> 02:52:15.900 - What am I gonna do start walking to work? 02:52:16.500 --> 02:52:24.300 - When people start pulling out of this parking lot and hit my car because it's right there 02:52:24.300 --> 02:52:31.140 - It's gonna be an issue. I see nothing but issues here. They say that they did a parking study 02:52:31.140 --> 02:52:36.750 - I'd be very interested to find out when that study was done because it was around Easter. It's skewed 02:52:36.750 --> 02:52:36.940 - a 02:52:36.940 --> 02:52:42.480 - Lot of people go around Easter. It's just like after after New Year's you see a lot of people jogging 02:52:42.480 --> 02:52:43.140 - for a week 02:52:44.620 --> 02:52:48.900 - It's not that bad. I have an 18 month old daughter. We take walks 02:52:48.900 --> 02:52:50.900 - every day 02:52:50.900 --> 02:52:54.420 - I've never been hit by a car. I remember when that unfortunate person was 02:52:54.420 --> 02:52:59.180 - What's hit and it was it sent ripples around this small community around here 02:52:59.180 --> 02:53:04.260 - But that was a one-off instance where somebody messed up and I don't think we should be 02:53:04.260 --> 02:53:09.660 - Affecting this much change based on something that happened years ago 02:53:09.660 --> 02:53:14.140 - It's congested on 02:53:14.500 --> 02:53:18.820 - Monday through Friday right before school starts and right after school ends, but it's not there's 02:53:18.820 --> 02:53:19.900 - parking on the street 02:53:19.900 --> 02:53:22.060 - for 02:53:22.060 --> 02:53:24.540 - Sundays and it works 02:53:24.540 --> 02:53:28.680 - Also, another thing that could happen is there could be multiple 02:53:28.680 --> 02:53:37.320 - Services throughout Sunday, they literally stated 9 to 11 in service a whole lot of day a whole lot 02:53:37.320 --> 02:53:38.100 - of day left 02:53:40.740 --> 02:53:45.900 - Everything I'm hearing is we've been forgotten. We're homeowners here. We're taxpayers here 02:53:45.900 --> 02:53:50.060 - We've been forgotten on the other side on the on the west side of everything 02:53:50.060 --> 02:53:54.850 - Everyone's talking about the east side, but we're not happy with this and everybody that we've 02:53:54.850 --> 02:53:56.020 - talked to along this road 02:53:56.020 --> 02:54:00.820 - Isn't happy with this but they couldn't show up because they have kids and they don't have the 02:54:00.820 --> 02:54:02.580 - multi-tasking abilities that I have 02:54:02.580 --> 02:54:06.260 - Or they're still at work because these are townhouses and we work for a living 02:54:08.140 --> 02:54:12.060 - That's all I've got I staunchly against every single every single part of this 02:54:12.060 --> 02:54:18.940 - Okay, thank you for your comments we'll go to the second 02:54:18.940 --> 02:54:20.660 - person 02:54:20.660 --> 02:54:23.560 - Who had their hand raised? Could you state your first and last name? 02:54:23.560 --> 02:54:30.140 - Hi, my name is Jeffrey Stafford. Hey Jeffrey. Do you affirm that testimony? You're about to give us 02:54:30.140 --> 02:54:30.460 - the truth 02:54:30.460 --> 02:54:35.000 - The whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yes. All right, please you have five minutes 02:54:35.580 --> 02:54:40.260 - Okay, like the previous commenter, I am a homeowner of an adjacent property 02:54:40.260 --> 02:54:42.460 - and 02:54:42.460 --> 02:54:46.520 - Just to be clear. I am NOT one of the ones who already sent in a letter or a phone call 02:54:46.520 --> 02:54:49.980 - but I 02:54:49.980 --> 02:54:53.780 - Am also opposed and my family is also opposed to 02:54:53.780 --> 02:54:59.780 - Expanding the parking there for many of the same reasons that the previous commenter was which is 02:54:59.780 --> 02:55:00.820 - basically 02:55:00.820 --> 02:55:03.940 - not in favor of expanding a 02:55:04.660 --> 02:55:08.700 - Park turning this nice green space, which is one of the reasons that we bought this house 02:55:08.700 --> 02:55:16.580 - into a parking lot when it's only a once-a-week issue and you know, yeah, they park on the street 02:55:16.580 --> 02:55:16.740 - and 02:55:16.740 --> 02:55:21.220 - Its street gets full and you know, it's once a week 02:55:21.220 --> 02:55:27.640 - and I think we don't need to build a parking lot for that and especially the church's arguments 02:55:27.640 --> 02:55:28.100 - about 02:55:28.100 --> 02:55:32.860 - Against putting in the electrical field electric vehicle chargers 02:55:33.540 --> 02:55:35.700 - Saying that money could go to better uses 02:55:35.700 --> 02:55:41.320 - Like one of the board members said that argument could apply to this whole thing. Why are we 02:55:41.320 --> 02:55:43.140 - building the parking lot at all? 02:55:43.140 --> 02:55:44.700 - It's a big expense 02:55:44.700 --> 02:55:47.780 - You know that money could be spent in better ways 02:55:47.780 --> 02:55:50.820 - I was also a little bit 02:55:50.820 --> 02:55:55.260 - confused about all of the talk about putting in electric vehicle chargers 02:55:55.260 --> 02:56:01.140 - Attracting strangers to the neighborhood and all of this stuff. That seems very strange to me. I 02:56:01.140 --> 02:56:02.300 - would have never considered that 02:56:03.300 --> 02:56:07.340 - It's just it's just a car charging station and but 02:56:07.340 --> 02:56:13.000 - Yeah, I don't know to me. I guess the charging stations. Yeah, they're super expensive and maybe 02:56:13.000 --> 02:56:15.220 - there's not a huge demand for them now 02:56:15.220 --> 02:56:19.740 - But there's a reason that law is there if you were going to allow some variants on the chargers 02:56:19.740 --> 02:56:23.140 - I would say it seems like a reasonable compromise would be to allow a smaller number 02:56:23.140 --> 02:56:27.500 - If they have zero, you know people that need them in the congregation right now 02:56:27.740 --> 02:56:31.900 - maybe allowing two or three instead of six would would be a good compromise on that but 02:56:31.900 --> 02:56:39.610 - Overall we would prefer to keep the green space and not have a parking lot at all is our comment. 02:56:39.610 --> 02:56:40.580 - So, thank you. I 02:56:40.580 --> 02:56:49.060 - Will pause a moment to see if there is anyone else online who would like to make comment 02:56:49.060 --> 02:56:55.160 - Seeing none I'll go back to the chamber anyone 02:56:55.980 --> 02:57:02.180 - Okay with that we will return to the petitioner how much time do they have left 02:57:02.180 --> 02:57:09.100 - We'll go ahead and put that up for you and as that's coming up I'll just reiterate this is 02:57:09.100 --> 02:57:13.100 - This amount of time you have in order to address any previous comments 02:57:13.100 --> 02:57:18.070 - You may be asked questions after this but this is your last opportunity to present any new 02:57:18.070 --> 02:57:19.620 - information to us 02:57:19.620 --> 02:57:21.780 - You have eight minutes, please 02:57:21.780 --> 02:57:24.380 - There's a few 02:57:24.740 --> 02:57:29.440 - things that were said that I just wanted to address and make sure it's clear for the 02:57:29.440 --> 02:57:35.620 - Neighbors across the streets and also for just to clarify the statement 02:57:35.620 --> 02:57:41.620 - Maybe we had said it but we didn't mean for it that there's never going to be 02:57:41.620 --> 02:57:47.660 - Nothing happening during the week. It's the amount of parking needed is for over the weekend 02:57:47.660 --> 02:57:52.740 - and so that for that reason those wouldn't really be used and it's mainly pertaining to the 02:57:53.300 --> 02:57:55.300 - EV parking 02:57:55.300 --> 02:57:59.580 - Stations that they wouldn't be used for that reason because it was only be over the weekend 02:57:59.580 --> 02:58:04.840 - Not that there would never be anything happening. It would just be very seldom and lightly used 02:58:04.840 --> 02:58:09.700 - Perhaps used by other people coming in. So that was that point to that 02:58:09.700 --> 02:58:15.900 - That study that parking study was done over a year period and that's in your packet 02:58:15.900 --> 02:58:18.460 - So that's actually over a year period 02:58:18.460 --> 02:58:24.530 - That was not done just over that's a balance of every single Sunday throughout the entire year of 02:58:24.530 --> 02:58:25.980 - showing the need for it 02:58:25.980 --> 02:58:27.980 - so that's 02:58:27.980 --> 02:58:30.180 - That's that one 02:58:30.180 --> 02:58:36.140 - Again the the placement of the actual parking was 02:58:36.140 --> 02:58:43.120 - In conjunction to create the most compact area possible and not to disturb 02:58:43.900 --> 02:58:49.740 - As as little amount of green area we do understand that you know people look out upon this property 02:58:49.740 --> 02:58:52.840 - Especially the town houses directly to the west so we understand 02:58:52.840 --> 02:58:58.820 - So a good half of that is still being kept. We're not disturbing all of that. We're not 02:58:58.820 --> 02:59:02.560 - Going there's tree mature trees up there to the north that 02:59:02.560 --> 02:59:05.620 - Directly across from that the west side 02:59:05.620 --> 02:59:09.660 - So if you pull up the map again, you can see that and that's part of the reason that we chose again 02:59:09.660 --> 02:59:11.100 - after study of 02:59:11.460 --> 02:59:17.220 - This placement so that you could it's the the placement is least amount of invasive that you can 02:59:17.220 --> 02:59:18.100 - see but also 02:59:18.100 --> 02:59:24.100 - The most compact area to get in the amount of parking spaces that are allowed under the code 02:59:24.100 --> 02:59:30.660 - So that again just to address we understand that there's a little bit of green area 02:59:30.660 --> 02:59:34.780 - Being taken but when we put it in conjunction with the parking that's there now 02:59:34.780 --> 02:59:39.740 - It's we felt it's also compact but at least invasive that will be seen the least 02:59:40.500 --> 02:59:43.100 - to reiterate that one anything you want to 02:59:43.100 --> 02:59:46.980 - Just want to add, you know 02:59:46.980 --> 02:59:52.060 - My son and daughter-in-law lived in one of those town homes. So I've been in those town homes 02:59:52.060 --> 02:59:57.260 - I understand they do have garages and parking in the back in addition to parking on the street and 02:59:57.260 --> 03:00:00.860 - Also what they look out on currently right now is a street 03:00:00.860 --> 03:00:06.050 - There is a street between our property and my understanding from one of the people who sent a 03:00:06.050 --> 03:00:07.020 - letter or called 03:00:07.020 --> 03:00:10.100 - Was they were told when they bought that that would always be a green space 03:00:10.100 --> 03:00:14.540 - So someone was made perhaps making them promises about somebody else's property 03:00:14.540 --> 03:00:20.780 - And so, you know, I feel bad that that they're saying. Hey, this is green space and it's being 03:00:20.780 --> 03:00:21.180 - taken away 03:00:21.180 --> 03:00:26.560 - But it's this is this is privately owned property and and we do want to be good neighbors 03:00:26.560 --> 03:00:30.820 - We're not trying to virtue signal or or you know, we're not trying to play a righteous game 03:00:30.820 --> 03:00:34.660 - We're just trying to say there it is a zero-sum game in terms of like we're trying to put in the 03:00:34.660 --> 03:00:35.540 - minimum amount of parking 03:00:35.540 --> 03:00:39.540 - That I'd like to have more I'd like to I'd like to have more than what the ordinance allows 03:00:39.540 --> 03:00:42.480 - But that was yet another variance that we would have had to ask for 03:00:42.480 --> 03:00:47.960 - So we're trying to again compromise in a way that is amenable to everyone 03:00:47.960 --> 03:00:52.140 - There's any more questions we're happy to answer 03:00:52.140 --> 03:00:54.980 - Okay, so with that 03:00:54.980 --> 03:00:59.260 - That'll use up the remainder of your time. And then if there's any questions will 03:00:59.260 --> 03:01:02.780 - Will address you from the board? 03:01:02.780 --> 03:01:07.940 - The one thing that we did not talk about with the staff is there's going to be that new curb cut - 03:01:07.940 --> 03:01:08.940 - is that correct? 03:01:08.940 --> 03:01:10.940 - Yeah 03:01:10.940 --> 03:01:17.170 - One new drive cut and I can show that on the screen. Yeah, I thought it was there on the north side. 03:01:17.170 --> 03:01:17.300 - So 03:01:17.300 --> 03:01:20.900 - So that should alleviate some of the in-and-out 03:01:20.900 --> 03:01:25.860 - Kind of congestion yeah, okay 03:01:25.860 --> 03:01:33.180 - Back to the board either for action or for additional questions of the staff or the petitioner 03:01:33.180 --> 03:01:36.620 - Do we have any questions or comments or a motion? 03:01:36.620 --> 03:01:38.620 - So 03:01:38.620 --> 03:01:55.000 - For a case V 1725 on the proposed findings 03:01:55.000 --> 03:01:58.380 - number one, I 03:01:58.380 --> 03:02:00.540 - Would like to change it to read 03:02:00.540 --> 03:02:03.580 - the granting of the variance 03:02:03.580 --> 03:02:05.580 - I 03:02:05.580 --> 03:02:14.370 - This is related to the electrical vehicle charging is the granting of the variance will not be injurious 03:02:14.370 --> 03:02:16.060 - to the public health 03:02:16.060 --> 03:02:18.740 - safety 03:02:18.740 --> 03:02:23.820 - Morals or general welfare of the community that would just replace everything else 03:02:23.820 --> 03:02:29.900 - I'm finding proposed finding number three. I 03:02:29.900 --> 03:02:33.420 - Would amend it to read 03:02:34.100 --> 03:02:35.780 - the 03:02:35.780 --> 03:02:41.900 - BZA finds that the strict application of the terms of the unified a development code 03:02:41.900 --> 03:02:47.460 - Comma given the nature of their nonprofit 03:02:47.460 --> 03:02:53.920 - Comma community serving mission comma will result in a practical difficulties in the use of the 03:02:53.920 --> 03:02:54.900 - property and 03:02:54.900 --> 03:03:01.740 - Then I would say, you know based on the report and the amended findings of BZA 03:03:02.580 --> 03:03:05.180 - approves the requested variances from the 03:03:05.180 --> 03:03:07.980 - front parking setback 03:03:07.980 --> 03:03:15.740 - Electric vehicle charging stations and buffard yard land staking requirements 03:03:15.740 --> 03:03:24.210 - With the following conditions keeping number one and number two but eliminating the one on the 03:03:24.210 --> 03:03:25.380 - electrical I 03:03:25.380 --> 03:03:31.120 - Guess eliminate number two. Yeah, I'm keeping number three keep one and three 03:03:32.100 --> 03:03:35.500 - So that's the motion. That's the motion. Do I have a second? 03:03:35.500 --> 03:03:43.100 - Okay, thank you then if I could as it relates to the electrical vehicle charging 03:03:43.100 --> 03:03:47.020 - I mean, I think there's really compelling arguments to be made on either side of this 03:03:47.020 --> 03:03:49.420 - I 03:03:49.420 --> 03:03:51.260 - appreciate that 03:03:51.260 --> 03:03:55.340 - That portion of Southwest Bloomington is a bit of a charging 03:03:55.340 --> 03:04:00.900 - You know desert if you will I would just note that the city has 03:04:01.740 --> 03:04:03.740 - a couple of lots along 03:04:03.740 --> 03:04:10.180 - The road that two different trailheads, I know that they're not as big 03:04:10.180 --> 03:04:16.990 - but if you wanted to you know add one or two charging stations if it's such an important thing to 03:04:16.990 --> 03:04:17.780 - the morals and 03:04:17.780 --> 03:04:22.740 - Safety of our community. It seems like that would be an appropriate thing for the city to do I 03:04:22.740 --> 03:04:28.340 - Think you know and I get Joe's point. I mean things are changing 03:04:28.340 --> 03:04:32.540 - I would just say I think that in the context of the congregation 03:04:32.540 --> 03:04:35.340 - Let the demand drive that 03:04:35.340 --> 03:04:41.740 - Rather than us just presuming it and forcing them to spend the money 03:04:41.740 --> 03:04:47.060 - Because it doesn't make that much sense to me to say 03:04:47.060 --> 03:04:53.300 - You know, I mean and I get I don't own a leach electrical car right now 03:04:54.060 --> 03:04:59.300 - But I'm not really interested in super slow charging either 03:04:59.300 --> 03:05:03.380 - So I'm just not sure in the context of the neighborhood setting 03:05:03.380 --> 03:05:08.140 - that it makes them much sense to say well just do a couple of 03:05:08.140 --> 03:05:13.380 - You know inexpensive low charge ones when that it's not what the market really wants 03:05:13.380 --> 03:05:16.620 - So that's my comments 03:05:16.620 --> 03:05:23.020 - Yeah, and I was actually going to address that after a motion was made which was you know to me 03:05:23.020 --> 03:05:26.680 - I asked a lot of questions about the EV and I asked that because I just wanted to get a really 03:05:26.680 --> 03:05:27.520 - clear picture in 03:05:27.520 --> 03:05:33.380 - My head about what what I think might be a wise thing to do and I also think it's important 03:05:33.380 --> 03:05:38.560 - For the petitioner to hear those questions, especially from the standpoint of it's a it's kind of a 03:05:38.560 --> 03:05:39.500 - desert out there 03:05:39.500 --> 03:05:42.100 - I 03:05:42.100 --> 03:05:47.220 - my biggest the most compelling thing for me on the EV is is I am 03:05:47.220 --> 03:05:50.780 - concerned about requiring that of this type of 03:05:51.700 --> 03:05:53.300 - Use I 03:05:53.300 --> 03:05:59.340 - Really get it for large parking lots in a commercial space makes a lot of sense because it you know 03:05:59.340 --> 03:06:01.980 - It actually does drive people to certain places to shop 03:06:01.980 --> 03:06:08.290 - So I wanted to take a little bit of time to explore that to just see in my head whether it was 03:06:08.290 --> 03:06:08.780 - really viable 03:06:08.780 --> 03:06:13.400 - To put that there. I do think well, I agree with let the demand drive it 03:06:13.400 --> 03:06:16.820 - I do think there is something to plan ahead, which is if you're gonna have the expense 03:06:16.820 --> 03:06:19.340 - You could certainly 03:06:19.340 --> 03:06:20.980 - pass this 03:06:20.980 --> 03:06:25.020 - motion, but I do think the church should consider say man even if we put one or two because 03:06:25.020 --> 03:06:28.820 - You know, we do want to think ahead and there might be a use for it 03:06:28.820 --> 03:06:34.180 - That was the the really the driving factor for asking so many questions about that 03:06:34.180 --> 03:06:39.640 - Because there will be an increase in infrastructure that's gonna happen over time anyway 03:06:39.640 --> 03:06:44.460 - So that's that's why I ask and I was looking that there are some very low-cost options 03:06:44.460 --> 03:06:48.140 - But I also agree with what John said which is a lot of people aren't really interested in the six 03:06:48.140 --> 03:06:48.960 - kilowatt charger 03:06:49.580 --> 03:06:51.580 - They're interested in much faster. So 03:06:51.580 --> 03:06:57.340 - That is the only thing I'm completely on board with the with the changes or with the the other 03:06:57.340 --> 03:07:01.830 - Variance request, you know for the setback and for the landscaping etc. It was just that one 03:07:01.830 --> 03:07:02.100 - question 03:07:02.100 --> 03:07:04.860 - I really wanted to think about because this is really an unusual 03:07:04.860 --> 03:07:12.560 - Circumstance just based on the fact that you have so much parking so good point. Thank you. Any 03:07:12.560 --> 03:07:13.700 - other questions comments? 03:07:15.980 --> 03:07:20.060 - So a vote of yes would be to approve 03:07:20.060 --> 03:07:23.640 - The request for bearings is outlined by John 03:07:23.640 --> 03:07:28.900 - Which essentially is to to do away at its essence to do away with the electric charger 03:07:28.900 --> 03:07:31.860 - requirement and to accept the rest of 03:07:31.860 --> 03:07:33.540 - the 03:07:33.540 --> 03:07:36.160 - Conditions that were provided by the the staff 03:07:36.160 --> 03:07:41.740 - That's so a yes would be to approve that a no would be to deny that request for bearings 03:07:41.740 --> 03:07:44.860 - No other discussion. I'll call the question 03:07:44.860 --> 03:07:46.860 - Yes 03:07:46.860 --> 03:07:53.380 - Ballard yes 03:07:53.380 --> 03:08:00.460 - Okay, so the variance passes four to zero as stated in the motion. Congratulations. Good luck 03:08:00.460 --> 03:08:06.540 - A couple things I didn't want to put on this is old business. Did we have I'm sorry. Do we have 03:08:06.540 --> 03:08:07.300 - another position today? 03:08:07.300 --> 03:08:13.080 - That's it. Okay. So in terms for the city for old business, I had a question about that 03:08:13.620 --> 03:08:15.340 - parking lot at 03:08:15.340 --> 03:08:18.900 - Across from the graduate and there was a three-year there was a three-year 03:08:18.900 --> 03:08:24.660 - Sunset on that is what I thought and I just wanted to clarify that it was not a three-year sunset 03:08:24.660 --> 03:08:30.000 - It was they had to tear down the building that was there the old Monroe County and build it within 03:08:30.000 --> 03:08:31.300 - three years. That was the 03:08:31.300 --> 03:08:37.570 - So that was the confusion I had I have not had an answer on I did have an answer on the People's 03:08:37.570 --> 03:08:38.140 - State Bank 03:08:38.140 --> 03:08:43.460 - Which was it was granted. So alright, that was I just want to clear up those two piece old business 03:08:43.460 --> 03:08:45.460 - With that were adjourned 03:09:15.460 --> 03:09:18.960 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:18.960 --> 03:09:22.460 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:22.460 --> 03:09:25.960 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:25.960 --> 03:09:29.460 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:29.460 --> 03:09:32.960 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:32.960 --> 03:09:36.460 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:36.460 --> 03:09:39.960 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:39.960 --> 03:09:43.460 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:43.460 --> 03:09:46.960 - ("Pomp and Circumstance") 03:09:46.960 --> 03:09:50.460 - ("Pomp and Circumstance")