- we're gonna go ahead and call this meeting to order so we'll start the
- meeting with a roll call and make note of any any members that show up after
- the roll call here so we do roll call by voice so just making sure that
- everybody gets to start speaking so I'll just go through Kamila Brown Sparks
- gimme absent so far Robert here Aaron Jason here
- cushion absent Brigitte absent kale here yeah and vacant okay not here as
- expected Sharon here and now we can move to our first item approval of agenda and
- approval of memorandum or minutes does anybody have an amendment they would
- like to make to the agenda do I think from our wonderful liaisons in new
- business I think we need to put in a proposal to officially cancel the usual
- meeting that was supposed to be on the 19th of this month because we're doing
- it today the last time we gathered we didn't have a quorum but a member
- suggested not meeting on the 19th because of vacation schedules so the
- meeting then was scheduled for today as a result but the meeting on the 19th has
- been noticed and it's showing on the calendar so at some point during this
- meeting I think it would be appropriate for the committee to vote to cancel it
- well yeah I've made motion to add that so do you have to do a voice vote do you
- know to amend the agenda? Yeah I would go I would vote on that.
- Kale? Adding the agenda item to cancel the meeting. Robert? Aye. Jason? Aye. Aaron? Aye.
- Do we want to do that now? I mean we probably move through the reports and
- stuff I mean let's just kind of keep going with the agenda keep it moving. All right so now
- well so now we move to approval any other amendments to the agenda okay and
- then approval of minutes from last time does anybody want a chance to look at
- them? I'm gonna recuse myself. Anyone else? We can take a vote to approve them yeah you said you
- recused yourself so you okay um kale okay yeah Robert Jason yes Sharon okay so those uh minutes
- are approved and if you notice anything after this we can always go back and make a motion to make
- an
- amendment uh so reports co-chairs um uh Robert do you want do you have anything to add? I don't
- have anything to report uh except for what we're gonna go into with the old old business so that's
- it. I went to the commission on Hispanic and Latin American affairs and they um they have they're
- very concerned about um um immigrate about ICE coming here and they just talked about how a lot of
- immigrants legal or illegally here are are um are scared they don't want to
- some people don't want to even go out um and definitely don't leave the country they're
- afraid they can't come back even if they have citizenship and they um they have done something
- called upstander training and it's it's sponsored i'm trying to find the card they gave me it's
- sponsored by an organization called alert no have you heard of that alert yeah so um
- they have those trainings alert has those those trainings regularly and if we want to we can
- we can go to one yeah that's a good suggestion uh i i i used to have been in bloomington they've um
- you know that a couple weeks ago they were here and i don't i don't know if they uh grabbed anyone
- okay so you're up on this i work in bars so i work a lot with uh late night uh food and
- stuff and i the main question we get often is like what's your plan for when ice comes like
- where do we go how do we get out of here um how do you keep us safe and stuff like that so it's
- been a lot of interesting uh interesting conversations so i i have a lot to say on
- that too so if that means that's something we add to the the agenda then that's the movie i
- think is very valuable and i appreciate you bringing it up oh man uh so i want to move back
- and give a co-chair report and then an individual report which will tie in with what sharing just
- reported um in terms of co-chair um i want to circle back to what uh we've been saying
- in email about the importance of um attendance as we have noted for last the last meeting um we
- weren't able to conduct business because we didn't have quorum and that had been an issue when we
- had
- more seats available um and now that's been limited but um i think it's important to plan ahead uh
- as
- much as possible and communicate ahead as much as possible and i say that it's somebody who didn't
- respond in the email thread to to um say that i was going to be here today um but i just wanted
- to stress that um in my role as a co-chair as far as individual reports i attended uh the picnic
- for
- monreal county uh democrats um and they talked about specifically about ice um and how so far
- we've been uh the community has been pretty reactive you know alerting people when ice shows up
- or when ice um and or too close to when they're arriving um and they multiple people at that picnic
- expressed the desire to um build networks so that we're ready ahead of time that we're looking
- for it ahead of time and i think that upstander training is certainly one way to do that um i
- also wanted to say that um while i was there so uh the monreal county democratic party used to have
- a latino caucus which is separate from the commission and that had gone defunct um but
- my partner who is latinx um had started to make plans to resurrect that um so i know we've been
- talking about doing outreach to commissions but we can extend to all uh different uh segments in
- the community doing the work that we're tasked with doing um so there's uh we're not sometimes
- it might feel like we're the only ones and we have to tackle things which i know we talked about
- like
- if there's this threat why not address it but we don't have to only be the ones addressing it and
- we're not the only ones so just wanted to note that um other individual reports
- since we're still pausing on committees i think that we're
- we can skip that and now we can move on to the staff yes so do you guys have anything
- you wanted to report out on visa i feel like i surprised you in the class
- no i i just have nothing to report i've already talked about the cancellation of the meeting
- christine no i have nothing to add
- now we can move to public comment um and we don't have anybody in the chat okay um anybody in the
- public uh in attendance uh that would like to make a comment now is the time sure yeah i'll be very
- brief uh my name is julius i'm uh working with the office of the mayor i'm the new legislative
- affairs specialist uh i just wanted to come in and say hi i'm learning a lot about like
- the awards and commissions here at the city uh like some of the major stuff back to the mayor
- so i just wanted to introduce myself because you might be seeing me down the line but yeah that's
- all hello that's fine i guess not so much more so just like the big ideas that you guys are talking
- about i can put a little bit about the like concerns about the hispanic national affairs
- commission and stuff like that little clip notes yeah public kidnappings what's asterisks
- so a nerd and a policy wonk you're welcome here
- so i'm is about people not smooth i think you all know me i'm on the city council
- i wanted to report that um i'm taking part in a training cohort through the organization called
- local progress which is an organization of progressive local leaders from municipalities
- and school districts across the country and they have a training program specifically for
- people who want to develop a community responder program as an alternative to police response in
- cases of emergency and so i jumped at that because that's near and dear to my heart and one of the
- motivations for creating this commission was to look into that kind of program as
- you'll be reviewing in the report from 2023 so we had our kickoff meeting in pittsburgh about
- three weeks ago and it was very interesting we heard from people in minneapolis where
- even before the george floyd murder they had started a community responder program and
- and they've gone kind of back and forth as far as reactionary to george floyd's murder and then
- reactionary back to no we have to have lots of police and but they have they've been able to
- implement a system that we could look at and then chicago was the other group that was presenting
- where they have actually city-run mental health agencies that had been shut down but they're
- gradually reopening them and and doing an outreach program to go along with them in
- certain parts of the city certain police districts in the city and that has had some success as
- well
- and then we also since we were in alligator county pennsylvania we visited their
- 9-1-1 dispatch they do have an alternative to sending police that i don't think is the
- best model because it goes through the police the police get to decide whether or not to send an
- alternative team but it was interesting so i just wanted to report on that and it's going to be
- followed by three zoom meetings and another in-person meeting in july so i'll be happy to
- report back to you on that and um i i have some ideas as if you're revisiting your report from
- 2023 today um so i don't know if i might be able to speak to that later in your meeting or
- just reach out to uh the chairs or whatever but
- can you repeat the name of the group again local progress they're at localprogress.org if anybody
- wants to check them out
- nice okay cool um well thank you as well as always and do keep us in the loop um and then
- when it makes sense we'll tap you uh for your uh insights about the report
- do you want to move to the item that had been added yeah i don't think that we have any other
- other business yeah awesome uh so yeah i'll put motion to vote to cancel the meeting on the 19th
- all right i'll second that motion
- assuming that's still a voice vote so uh yes uh kip yes robert yes jason yes erin yes and sharon
- yes that's officially cancelled thank you for your participation
- all right um and now we move to reviewing the report
- um how do we want to go about this would we like to
- you realize i didn't switch my glasses um i was wondering why i was having trouble seeing it um
- yeah
- i mean yeah i was not sure how you would want to move forward with this i think i was just trying
- to encourage folks to actually read it and try and take some notes on it if possible that we had by
- way of not getting a quorum you know an extra extension so um i made a couple of notes but
- i would love to hear just if anybody else had anything official or just
- trying to keep it kind of loose and informal unless we were having trouble getting people
- weighing in on it so that was kind of my yeah um you know i think i think the main summary for me
- is that i know that um ultimately there were some key recommendations and um that's definitely
- where
- i was hoping we'd ultimately focus on um and where you know isabel might be able to weigh in and
- and other folks as well um so i think i'll let other people have bits of the floor to see if
- they've got any input or questions uh or having need of clarification for anything
- we could either call on everybody uh go around for hot takes like brown robin yeah yeah
- um i mean uh i thought i found it uh helpful like you know lots of uh the studies and things that
- were brought in were very direct and also provided um really nice insight towards i did think um
- there was some language things that i disagreed with that removed some of the power of those
- results like perceptions and like instead of it being direct the then takes were then received
- as perceived things which um was my main takeaway but i i thought uh like at the last meeting i
- guess there was the phrase um finding the roots of crime versus alternatives to policing and i
- feel like that's the direction that was taken in this where when given the results that were very
- much like here's some other programs or other things that have worked and then i was still
- focusing more on the crime aspect and housing and other things so i i felt like maybe it didn't
- hit on what i what i thought that the research was going for but i was hopeful to see more
- solution based on the policing side versus the the policed who is police side and how to fix
- their problems versus finding better solutions in the structures that we can control within the
- city
- but that was my only big takeaway that i i found
- thank you kyle it's helpful so for me i mean i think we're getting into some other details after
- the round robin with some of the key recommendations i'd like to return to that but there was a
- part of
- the report where it talked about evaluating and selecting and i didn't quite see where like the
- report said that we did that but i didn't quite see it covered in the report and i missed that
- somewhere evaluating selecting yeah i don't have the page reference at the in an immediate at hand
- yeah step so basically where we were talking about the eight steps in the design centered
- entrepreneurship process so this is well i think i'll try and refer to the packet since we've got
- that since we've got that here that is going to put us on
- yeah i guess this is as far as our packet here page 11 mentioned you know this report documents
- up to and including step five and i did i felt like i was missing that that's just so it's really
- just more an observation but um i'll be eager to kind of move with that and figuring out how
- we can move on to these other steps in light of the report yeah yeah
- yep i mean everything else is just me
- summarizing what it was in the report as far as my notes so that's all again thank you
- so i feel a little bit of pressure because i'm the only one in the room who worked on the report
- but looking back at it i'm remembering some of the things some of the decisions we made
- hearing some of the things that you're saying help me to understand what was clear to me as part of
- participant in the research but maybe not not be clear to somebody reading the report freshly
- also some of it takes into account the history of this commission and some of the pushback we've
- gotten and some of the ways we've adjusted our approach regarding the report specifically
- i returned to some of the documents that go with it clarifying the the question the frequently
- asked
- questions that clarified some misunderstandings but i will say that from some of the research that
- we've gotten and i want to honor your critique and i think that it definitely should be considered
- but one of the reasons we went to the root cause analysis is an attempt to try to appeal to
- different
- people which is definitely doesn't seem to put an onus on on changing the structures so i think
- that's something that we i would agree with that i think we should keep in mind as we review the
- report and how we want to take some of the findings in it and make them more actionable
- to make changes now that's all for now i just want to clarify before i fully open my mouth
- what are we doing are we like in feelings corner are we sharing our feelings about the report
- and then if so to what end like to make a an action plan to edit the report i thought it was
- a jump off point that's the way i perceive what was assigned after the last meeting was kind of
- like after reading the point what can we use this ground work for to continue this commission into
- the work we're heading towards okay thank you then i would then kind of re-emphasize what
- jennifer crossley had been kind of repeatedly bringing up in the meetings that she attended
- previously and always in any action that we take or any of our time spent here both in a meeting or
- outside the commission to always remember our mission and to make sure that we are devoting
- our time efficiently and wisely to meet the the ends of our mission and so then i would direct
- everyone back to the governing statute and i think that the 2023 report checks every one of the
- four first boxes in the governing statute it uh gathers data on perceptions and preferences
- it researches evidence-based alternatives to traditional policing it identifies best practices
- and it makes recommendations and so at this juncture i would pose a question to my fellow
- commission members um whether or not we want to you know what what do we want to do with that
- because we've accomplished we've accomplished a goal so to speak in 2023 so do we want to expand
- on that do we want to pick some areas and update the research and make new recommendations or do
- we want to kind of table the report and put the brain trust together and think of entirely new
- areas that we could then do the four mission markers you know gather data research alternatives
- because i i think there's a lot of work to do in our community and i have faith in our commission
- and other governing bodies to do that and i think we got to use our time super wisely so i
- to boil that down to distill it i acknowledge i appreciate and i accept the findings in the
- 2023 report and i would encourage my fellow commission members to you know familiarize that
- yourselves with that in your own time and then come with an idea i don't have an idea today
- but that is my two cents for how to move forward thank you
- sharon well actually this segue from erin's comments i'm thinking about
- the comparison of what's going on now in in bloomington as compared to two years ago
- has crime stayed high is higher i think the report said that it went it had gone up from 2019 right
- in the beginning um until 2023 so what's happened since then and the social workers and um unarmed
- officers in the bpd have they helped um let me see yeah so and i made a note about brooklyn
- something from brooklyn i don't i don't remember what it referred to but
- yeah maybe we can actually find out about just move it forward and find out if these
- changes that were instituted have brought crime down and if they feel like this has been
- successful if the bpg feels like it's been successful the the officers the and officers
- and social workers themselves feel like they're doing something they're being successful in their
- job maybe we that's a way to sort of continue this report or bring it to the next step
- if i may bounce on that because i think that's a really good idea for a next step that we could
- take
- is just at a bare minimum the first thing we do is look at numbers and what has changed
- since the report was uh initially finalized and dispersed um and i don't and it when you were
- speaking at raised what like what does it even mean to say crime has gone up or down does that
- mean we have a larger militarized police that are arresting more people does that really mean
- that more crime is occurring or so i i would love to look at an intersectional layout of numbers if
- we can and that's step one on our mission and our governing statute is gather data and perceptions
- and so you know at a bare minimum i don't know if our county is even collecting the data that would
- be really helpful so if we have any like graduate students like that have a bunch of expertise and
- time on their hands i don't know but to just look at number of arrests this year compared to 2023
- and even more you know where the arrests occurred what kind of officer what were they responding to
- were they even responding or were they already policing that area so i think that looking at
- data and if we have that in front of us to look at what has changed since 2023 i think our mission
- will then it will reveal itself organically the question i bring down too is like what's changed
- since has any like even with the the conversation about resource officers and non it's like
- have they actually been used or police still responding to those calls or yeah it's like is
- the because they are still coming through the police and the police are always the first even
- when requested a police officer still is the first one there so yeah those questions popped
- up throughout being like what's changed and how so when someone calls 911 automatically
- an armed officer will go or sometimes that's been their personal experience at night time so i'm
- mostly a night time person but i've most of the times that i've had to call which i
- are rules to never call um it's always been the case where i've requested and i've been sent
- someone else first but that could be a small microcosm of my world but then also i feel like
- that might be something that you could find out through this information or on a larger scale
- like who is responding is are these resource officers being utilized appropriately are they
- being given the power to respond first are they and no one's collecting those numbers yes so one
- thing that we can't that we do have in our hand we can ask we can obtain policy documents so i
- think our three we have three law enforcement agencies in bloomington uh iupd bpd and sheriff's
- office state police are out here more right but i i'm just saying for our jurisdiction of course
- we have like ellisville and state ease and all of them um police state right uh but i think that we
- can add if if we want to add an action item for next week we can take volunteers to identify where
- we can find out some information and then and to bring that next time to say hey i've figured out
- that this tracks this metric um and then also we could take volunteers to call i i'm happy to call
- our law enforcement agencies to just see their policies on who they send and to what report
- or are they just driving around waiting for someone to flag them down
- yeah i'd be intrigued to see what kind of information you could get out of that so aaron is that is
- all
- that documented if a call comes in and someone goes out to this to the site um is that all that
- documented who who goes and in theory there is a document there's a paper trail every time a call
- comes in starting with 911 a cad report is initiated and that can either just go right
- from the computer from the printer to the shredder um or it can be given to a person and then that
- can be sent to whoever's um i'm having pregnancy brain but whoever sends the people out
- there's dispatch yeah a dispatcher sends um someone out and that adds there's an automatic record
- whether or not the responding officer or anyone actually types the way they're supposed to and
- fill in a police report there is a record of a call coming in and someone being dispatched
- i don't i don't practice a lot of civil law so i don't know about a FOIA request
- if that would if we would be even allowed to say hey can i have all of your
- cad reports it probably costs money too i don't know um but
- yeah because i know that we can request individual ones we could go to the
- um courthouse and say it's public information i would like this police report from and you have
- to pay for them to print it but um i'm sure we could perhaps bypass that with a freedom of
- information act request but don't quote me that is not my area of expertise um so we would want to
- talk to something like that i think i think the budget is really for books and materials
- i'd have to look at the specific line item
- but do you know are you referring to making this request with the bloomington police department
- yeah do you know do they do they have a policy in place where they charge for copies directly
- from them you get it from the county clerk and they charge to print okay so i don't know i mean
- as a technical matter under uh the access to public records act
- you can be charged for a request if the governing body has adopted
- um a policy with a fee schedule and so forth so if they've done that yeah then i'm sure that they
- have there's a fee schedule okay and i think the only way we could get around that is to subpoena
- the records and i don't think we have so it would probably be quite expensive to obtain all those
- and so it may be worth looking in and that would only tell us so much that could tell us
- how many calls came in and what time of year and if they dispatch that it it would be a very black
- and white but it still would so so first of all the um there are public portals of data
- from the city of bloomington and i think you can get some basic data there how many calls went in
- how they were coded things like that um there's there are also reports that go
- monthly to the board of public safety that are on their website that you could look at
- for further details and i i i'm pretty sure that the uh the public information isn't going to give
- you the level of detail that's really very helpful um the uh
- i myself and some colleagues uh convinced the mayor to put ten thousand dollars in the budget
- for this um this year 2025 to hire an outside consultant to look at our 911 calls um to see
- which might be addressed by a community responder program versus by police and there's um an
- organization uh called law enforcement action partnership that actually i think jason you were
- on the call and cammy was on the call last year when we talked to them um they sound very um
- business as usual policing but they are actually a reform non-profit um and they analyze 911 calls
- and help set up community responder programs so um i our central dispatch right now has gone
- through some human resources challenges but i'm i'm still hopeful by the end of the year that we
- can get this study of the data done so i i don't i i think it would be good to at least you know
- let's be optimistic and hope this will get done uh sometime soon um and that you won't have to
- resort to the kind of you know uh efforts that would take a lot of your time and
- be a lot of work and you're not you're all not professionals at this kind of thing so it would
- be great if we had this group or a similar group analyze those calls so that would tell us
- something
- about the calls coming in would it tell us about who goes out to respond yes if that i assume that
- information is collected so yes that would give us that information i'm looking at the calls for
- service city of blueington open data and it looks like we get the case number time month weekday
- nature district agency and report that all being said someone with much greater tech expertise than
- me is going to need to right and what they usually find what we've been talking to leave last
- summer
- they said you know the most CAD systems have a nature of the call that is not descriptive
- right it doesn't really tell you what really happened so they actually dive into the notes
- attached to each call and goes through to to further categorize the calls so um i mean it
- is a major undertaking but i think it is something that needs to be done and it looks like it was
- just
- last updated yesterday so i'm encouraged oh i think i got it with that um project that you're
- hopeful to go forward is i know you said that the HR stuff is there a timeline is it like within
- the
- year or is it it was budgeted for this year okay that's why i wanted i was like because i mean
- we're only here for you know so i want to make sure it was maybe it would be within our time so
- we could utilize it properly but hopefully it'll yeah optimism is on your side i will keep asking
- um i'm also wondering do you remember when the unarmed officers and social workers started
- working with the social workers started what 2019
- i think it was before
- the summer of reckoning 2020 um but maybe it wasn't maybe that was their answer to it
- and of course um a lot of people objected to the social workers being under the police yeah which
- is problematic um so maybe it wasn't 2020 2019 or 2020 and they they've actually um had a national
- conference of these social workers and Bloomington has become an example
- they're very proud of their social work
- so is there some way that we can talk to someone who's done this and sort of get their
- you mean the social workers yeah we could definitely reach out mark fabrics is somebody who's been
- involved for a while he's somewhat responsive so if we wanted to do the outreach that we've been
- planning on um connecting i guess gathering data maybe a couple of the others um then we could
- reach out to them um i think what isabel suggested is very important like somebody who is
- specialized
- in this um it might be better to pay them because the other thing i was thinking about as this
- thread
- was going on um is the start program which we've met which i've mentioned um we could get people
- in iu that are um students who are working on who have advisors um who know about qualitative data
- analysis um if we wanted specific some specific element of those police reports um we could get
- that um so that's that's what that was i just found found it in the 2025 public safety report
- so the social worker started 2019 and then the community service specialist began in 2020
- i know ultimately in the report there were like three recommendations that were
- and i know when i was reading over the report it just seemed like that was kind of our
- jumping off point i don't know how much that changes in light of us trying to get updated numbers
- but i didn't know if we wanted to look at that a little bit more closely
- that was you know the uh basically a feasibility study for the department of community safety and
- resilience a city-wide incorporation of public safety indicators
- so this starts on page 37 of the report what does that put us in the packet
- i want to say that's page 11 of the overall packet no that's not it
- um
- jump let's pass that
- oh yeah this would be
- page 34 of the packet i want to say it starts off with that
- but then where it really starts listing them on is page 39 of the little packet if you want to jump
- to there no you don't have page things yeah so the yeah so
- so there um it sounds this sounds like a pretty concrete um recommendation which i don't know if
- you'd be able to lend uh history to but i mean part of there i was doing an independent study
- to assess that my interpretation of this and i could be wrong is that i feel like this dovetails
- really nicely into some of the other stuff that we've talked about in the beginning with like you
- know um uh you know looking at looking at dispatch and you know how to connect to dispatch with
- other
- other services besides you know police uh police fire um so places like a stride center and things
- like that um this seems like our most concrete jumping off point but this feasibility study
- does talk about you know a qualified firm to look at that i i don't know what that looks like for
- us
- i don't know if you could lend like historical perspective on that yeah so the feasibility
- study is something that we we had to clarify because key recommendation number one also talks
- about the department of community safety and resilience which we uh kind of established as
- doing the work that other communities in our research have done and as public comment spoke
- to people did were resistant to the idea of social workers being being embedded in the police from
- my
- own research in the denver star program they started with being embedded in the police and
- overseen by the police to becoming a separate entity and so others other cities that we looked
- at there was separation too but the feasibility study is was more important to us and we clarified
- that in the frequently asked questions is that we're not experts we synthesized the data that
- we gathered and suggested that it would be nice for us to have something separated so the feasibility
- study is is something that we were really pushing for and it had some support from council members
- when our report was finished and that was to see like what improvements could be made
- hopefully that clarifies a little bit yeah other follow-up well i mean
- i think for me i'm just trying to figure out how how we how we move forward in a measurable
- way to get that started right but then we've also got the other recommendations
- which i feel like when i first started and i was like drinking from the fire hose there was
- mentioned
- of the public key or key safety indicators that we have kpis kpis yeah um so
- i'm unclear where we are with that and moving that forward yeah um so unfortunately um
- uh ex-commissioner routsong and commissioner brown sparks met with the mayor to discuss that
- and i think updated the key performance indicators the rationale behind that was a better way of
- measuring um in a quantitative way whether safety is being met um and uh if it's if those key
- performance indicators indicated that it wasn't being met then that would trigger looking at
- the entities that are in charge of uh addressing that so the police being a major one but then also
- the state the social workers um and the fire department other other departments that have
- taken on um the needs of addressing things like mental health that we don't have um a specific
- like mental health assessment body doing so so when we updated the mayor did we get any feedback
- from that office of what now that means what's the next steps for that right um we did um but
- cami would be the only one able to speak to that that is currently on the commission
- oh yeah she was in the meeting um and we didn't form an official
- report um i think between that meeting and the intent to talk about that commissioner
- routsong resigned from the commission um due to life circumstances okay so maybe if we want to
- get down if we want to start looking at like potential action items for the next time trying
- get cam commission sparks to to uh either send an email or maybe report at the next meeting
- yeah sounds that i want to be aware of of her time and her
- we can do that we could also do outreach to community member uh nashla routsong um
- and uh see if they'd be willing to share their notes okay
- all right and then the promote inclusion and awareness felt like the most
- maybe i need to reread it the most vague to me so i don't even know what we could
- like what page is that number three yeah page 43 in the packet yeah
- i kind of i've kind of interpreted this as dependent on the first two but i don't know
- yeah t are part of yeah
- so
- i mean for me i'm just trying to figure out how to move these recommendations forward
- in a in a measurable way yeah and i am just me
- yeah i think that's a good question to call
- i wanted to uh suggest something for you to consider um so we were uh at the pittsburgh um
- training um i think it was in chicago they did a community survey to support um a a mental health
- crisis response team in the parts of chicago where they where they were considering it where
- there was a mental health center that they could use as a base um and that really helped uh get
- convinced the city government to to fund such a thing so um i was making maybe a survey here in
- bloomington could also prompt the mayor and the county government to more seriously consider a
- community response program and i did talk to lisa laner about funding such a thing and she thought
- that your budget could be used for that purpose if you so choose to do it so that some professional
- organization somebody with expertise in surveys could could develop such a thing so i'll throw
- that out as because it it does fall under this goal of promoting inclusion and awareness you know
- but ask ask people what they what they want how they think that um public safety can be improved
- using uh kind of non-traditional um entities and and who would take the survey or who would it be
- distributed to well i think it would it would have to go through a random cross-section of
- people in bloomington and a survey company or the iu center for survey research would be an option
- oh i would be in charge of you know getting a big cross-section so not specifically to um
- how i felt mental health professionals i mean i think you could you could decide that amongst
- yourselves i i need to follow up with the city council member from chicago and see i could i
- could ask who did their survey like they send it to um my impression was it was a general survey
- that anybody could fill out i also want to get a copy of it yeah
- so is he leaving for leaving for the meeting or is he coming back later he's coming back
- okay he needs to move his vehicle i believe that's fine yeah yeah
- do we have to wait for him technically i don't
- do we have to wait for him technically technically if we are doing this meeting
- i guess we're less than quorum yeah
- it's never going to understand what i say
- never mind
- okay um on that survey i feel like i've taken a couple surveys recently through the city
- that have been powered by something but about like parking and then about hearts and about this i
- feel like is there that capability within the city that can be outsourced for a survey
- like chas chas has sent me the last three and i've filled them all out but she's in the
- i think the external consultants the city hires does those okay cool that's all i was like i was
- sure are we allowed to jump off of things from earlier of maybe like the recommendations for next
- agenda things like how does that work yeah i guess i want to follow up on the earlier statement
- about
- ice and our police's involvement and our city's involvement with ice um i know i've had
- conversations
- with people and um with city officials and i've been sent emails about the city's stance on that
- and fear of funding and federal government stuff and state government stuff but i i guess i would
- because that is kind of in our purview wonder how what policies exist for our police that they
- when when another uh agency comes in whether it be state or because we've had issues with state
- police overstepping we're not overstepping with their balance but pointing snipers you know stuff
- stuff like that like how what's what's our actual bloomington um policy on when a federal thing or
- when ice comes or how how do how do they interact or react i was told by the mayor one thing during
- a meeting but that has since not been true so i i guess i'm intrigued to know where to find that
- information and how to then because if we're supposed to build these networks to support
- our neighbors and make them feel like we have their backs or we're going to alert people or
- we're going to help them through this maybe knowing how the bloomington police department
- engages and also a direct understanding of how the mayor and the city will also engage with those
- or engage or not engage with ice when they come and also i guess the jail you know county so
- lots of lots of uh i know the detainees were taken to kentucky i believe um so we did not hold them
- but i know we have done ice holds before um but i'm just intrigued on policy there and how that
- can tie into whatever mission we're jumping in towards towards alternative policing and
- understanding
- exactly what kind of policing is happening when outside police or agents or federal things come in
- i i would think that it would be in the municipal code i'm just telling you i've never looked at
- the
- internet so that's why i say i say words and then yeah someone can break it down and tell it to me
- and then if your city websites are not my friend and from listening to that one i agree um that
- that's something that's important um and um i'm internally remembering um that what our call is
- right because i think it's important we can look into it and i think in the past we've tried to
- form our own response but i think what's important is to clarify that and communicate that that's
- one
- thing um because if it's hard for us to find right then people who are not as engaged um
- might pay attention to any outlet with any information so coming from us i think that's
- that is important yeah and then potentially making recommendations at the end of your
- ways to policy to exist or clarifying things to make that easier for people to digest and
- understand
- exactly who's going to serve or protect them yeah absolutely and how
- yeah you all know that the sheriff is being sued by the attorney general in dm because he won't do
- ice homes oh there was that report released where we were the one city the one city in indiana but
- it's also like yeah if we're gonna we're gonna be that then let's let's be it you know have some
- teeth about it that's why my recommendations will all be back in our sheriff's office
- you do not in our prosecutor's office yeah i don't have zero faith in prosecutor's office but
- i think there are some lines
- i guess yeah i just the goals that i i think the report was the the research was very informative
- and i was appreciative of the different outlets that were brought into it and i did thoroughly
- i was like oh great you know like these are the things that i was hopeful would be in there
- i was just hopeful that is a commission now we can actually take it and be like here's the things
- that we would recommend that would be concrete and here's things that we can be like we did all
- this
- research we gathered all this if we're going to be asking the mayor or the city council to listen
- to
- us or particularly take our advice or recommendations maybe we by the end of next year before the
- budget
- we have like or before the next we have some real concrete policy suggestions or recommendations
- behind the research that we find post that report and what can what can happen because i know there
- was a conversation about translators within the police department and hoping for translation
- technology but then they're not being budgeted there but then 11 more police officers and everyone
- get in a 16 000 dollar raise per head you know maybe they have to learn spanish to get a raise
- i don't know stuff like that but like there's got to be things tangibly that we can actually
- that would help keep our latinx community at least somewhat safer because then at least they're
- understood when they're being policed or helped
- so does anybody know if it's a legal obligation for our sheriff to do ice holes or to arrest
- people that they don't have to kidnap anyone without a court order
- like if the if a court has ordered them to carry out they need everyone all of us needs to comply
- with what our judicial leaders on high say in a valid order but without a valid judicial order
- and without proper protocols we're just sending thugs out to kidnap people and they don't have
- to do that in fact some would argue that they shouldn't do that and there hasn't been any court
- order i
- don't think there's been any proof of any of them being court ordered no across the country it
- would
- have to be identification they'd have to identify a person and i don't know some right then we're
- getting into a habeas corpus issue like there has to be a legal justification to to detain someone
- to assign warrant by a judge yeah identifying officers that would be my interpretation of it
- right yeah there are a variety of different ways that a law enforcement officer can detain someone
- off the street if they committed a felony right in front of them for example they're allowed to
- detain that person pending charges if a neutral and detached magistrate or judicial officer has
- found that there is probable cause to detain someone suspected of a crime then they can also
- go and get that person but it gets a little more complicated when we have just gone beyond the law
- but going to an apartment complex or a bar and suspecting someone of not having documents is not
- i would encourage all of my fellow citizens to for civil disobedience and not comply unless they
- are
- shown a copy of a valid warrant with that person's name on it saying i'm you know this is signed by
- a
- judge and they have a right to come get if there's no valid warrant again they're just kidnapping
- people so disrupt yeah disrupt them delay yeah disrupt you don't have to move your body you don't
- have to help them complete their mission they are allowed to lie to you though they are allowed to
- say that if you don't do this i'm going to do that do x y and z or you have to do x y and z
- that's what makes it complicated so i tell all my clients never take legal advice from cops
- because they're going to tell you a lot of stuff and most of it is not true
- that reminds me of another thing do you know about the red cards yeah that's that's exodus
- right yeah yeah yeah um and there's efforts to distribute spanish this in spanish because
- this is in english and i believe exodus is a nonprofit that has uh lots of those and are able
- and are willing to bring them to wherever you need them or to anyone from what i just said at the
- non-profit meeting with the mayor that was their goal was to get as many of those red cards out
- as possible and also they have them in spanish yeah so exodus is a non-profit working for immigrant
- safety
- informing people because this is nice that we're all informed i'm very thankful erin for you being
- here and being able to speak to that uh but then like sharing this recording now with other people
- or you know spreading those documents that that's part of the infrastructure right this doesn't
- count as official formal legal advice especially if it leaves this jurisdiction and you haven't
- hired me to represent you these are my personal opinions
- okay question
- if you're making a to-do list um another way that this report could be helpful is if you would
- update um the progress of other communities um you have some great case studies but it's been
- you know two or three years since you talked with them and there are other um cities that
- are not mentioned in the report that are that are that have developed community responder programs
- like albuquerque minneapolis austin um so if you have the bandwidth um some updates
- from other communities and what some best practices uh might be would be helpful
- um
- that's how i learn about a lot of these things safer cities.org they send a newsletter
- they're all about community responder global crisis
- response programs
- i guess one of the other things that i'm i'm interested in maybe it's a broader thing
- but um looking into like the like passive more passive policing and um jurisdiction for
- pullovers jurisdiction for how because you would mention like were they already patrolling the
- area earlier and i do feel like our city is hard patrol um there i've seen more cops than i see
- other cars and i walk three blocks to work every day unless of course you drive through sterling
- woods
- yeah yeah it's amazing how there's just no cops there's none there yeah well i must live downtown
- uh yeah yeah well behind their closed doors uh and yeah that's the one thing i i think uh down
- there's got to be i know some cities have i've read a little bit about it so maybe i would
- do that deeper research to figure out how that works or and i especially since you're in law
- knowing
- well i anticipate you're gonna have a lot of roadblocks there because they're not going to
- tell us where they police because that's essentially telling the community hey that
- you can go everywhere well that but hey you can go commit your crimes over here because it's
- technically investigatory practice to not tell the public where we're going to be
- so because theoretically then we could all move elsewhere and do our nefarious deeds so
- one it would reveal
- i don't know what the analogous term would be but like kind of police redlining
- where they are purpose we all know that they are purposely policing certain districts and
- communities
- but there i i would be shocked if they revealed like anywhere near a schedule or borders or where
- they dispatch their patrol officers to kind of just sit and wait to find someone because that
- would be like saying hey we'll be here yeah don't do anything in front of us i don't know yeah so
- that's what i i think that's a good effort an idea but there's no chance in hell they're ever going
- to give that to us yeah well is there a way to like look into not outside of our city like find
- out what other cities have done to like maybe prove create policy to prevent some of the i know
- they're still kind of do whatever they want because they exist in those lines and spaces but is
- there
- like examples i think that we could lobby for and who knows the constitutionality of this but lobby
- for equitable patrolling where it's like you have to have at least two officers patrolling every
- zone
- and that you know you can't have all of them in one zone so i'm sure that there's and then we'd
- have to make up zones or look at what could be pre-pre-made blue lining that is the analogous
- term so yeah i think that but because i guess when i think about it it's like we pivoted away from
- defund as a concept because of how almost impossible that is um but then how do how do yeah how do
- you
- change how yeah yeah it didn't it didn't go well for yeah but it's how do you then pivot to then
- well i think that's a great idea that i think we could all and then we go back to our mission
- and we can research uh how our community views this so like i guess the language is perceptions
- and i guess i assumed that our community that we all kind of have this perception that certain
- communities are policed more or monitor i would say monitored more by law enforcement and so
- we can conduct a survey or have try to to get out in our community does our community agree
- because we're serving our community do they feel also that certain areas zones communities or
- districts within bloomington are monitored or policed more frequently and so then we can move
- down the line and research and discuss alternatives so like i just threw out shot from the hip the
- zone
- defense method i don't know and then we could ask we could send a subcommittee out to talk to
- professionals to identify best practices uh someone who has some letters after their name
- in the areas of i don't even know right of policing and then we could make a recommendation to our
- legislators to say this is what we recommend so i think that's one good
- task that we can move towards yeah i will say well one first good job
- sticking to our charge to stick to our mission and two something that um we i've heard
- of our commission is to more regularly report um to the city council so we could do that as
- a small task form the analysis of that and a recommendation and then go and present that
- to the city council yeah and i could start you know i think if we just as an example unless
- anyone thinks of a better idea more than a half-baked off-the-cuff zone theory but we could
- either identify ways that our community is already split up we could talk about school districts or
- who knows because there are different areas of our community it's all mapped out different blocks
- or we could make a new zoning that as step one recommend our legislatures hey let's have new
- zones just for this specific policing purpose and here's how we would propose based on the experts
- that it's an equitable distribution of people and communities
- yeah okay what what does everybody else think about that idea just gauging the vibes yeah
- because i think like thinking about things that i was hoping looking back on this rather than just
- like validating that this was a good report is like forming next steps and i think that is
- a good next step and not the only thing i agree but i'm wondering how we're going to get the
- statistic about where the police are in a particular time well we're definitely not so i think we
- just
- barge past it and they can sit if if we propose something they are more than welcome to say
- actually we have data showing that they're already doing that then by all means yeah share that
- data
- they can do that because if it's already happening then yeah we might have wasted time and it's new
- but i'd be willing to make a gamble that it's not already happening and so i think we can safely
- move
- forward under the assumption that they're not putting officers lying in wait in every neighborhood
- so do we would we um how do i say would we map about map out neighborhoods or something and
- i think we start with you know ideas everyone can bring an idea for how
- what what the zones would look like and i might get a map and say well the school districts look
- pretty good i don't know like that that's a why reinvent vent the wheel if we already have our
- community all sliced up and then how do i say present it to someone at bpd and say are you
- doing this or we think this is i don't even think we need to do that you know just make a plan
- and then present it to our common council for proposed potential legislation that's their job
- but just say you know here are some zones and then we just do a little simple math how many
- officers do they have out in our community at any given time without a mission that are just kind
- of patrolling and you take all those you divide them equally amongst the zones and then it's the
- city council council's job to find out where what's going on at the moment not necessarily
- i mean we could we could go even further and draft an ordinance but that's they're the legislatures
- so we could just bring an idea we it could be anywhere from here's a recommendation that we
- want you to take action in this area to someone sponsoring a bill or i don't know what the
- nomenclature is but um proposed legislation yeah they do have zones right i mean there are already
- police police zones right that oh yeah i'm sure of course are they like known to the public
- i think so i mean they've been told to me and i've been told you know the same
- it's it's the downtown zone that is heavily heavily it has more police than the others
- yes which that's why that's why i exist so it would make sense why i see it but also but there
- there is i just looked up there's a data set about police dispatch i just clicked on that yeah so
- you know you might look at that i'm not sure what these data sets are not always user-friendly
- and i think it's just a good jumping up because the anticipated responses we're going to put more
- officers where there's more crime or more people i don't know yeah and then we it even divides into
- like this the idea that i've always when i live in this town it's like how students are differently
- released by even the two forces than the people who are committing the same crimes on the same
- street as them who live here right they take it away with 70 000 with the destruction on the
- first weekend of school but get caught homeless on kirkwood and you're thrown in the flower bed and
- arrested for the fourth time but interesting anecdote there even the students themselves see
- their rights changed significantly depending on if the alleged crime occurred on this side of third
- street or this side of the street which doesn't make sense to me but whatever yeah so thinking
- towards actionable items in the last minutes like i think this is really great so do we want to
- form an item for our next agenda to follow up on this people i think an easy goal post
- would be to invite fellow commission members to bring an idea for how they see
- the equitable policing of our community either an idea for you know what's wrong with it that our
- communities are not equitably monitored depending on different zones or i think an opinion an idea
- related to that topic because there are so many different topics and i feel like our commission
- members are all very passionate and we all like to bring different issues to the table
- and if we want to reserve some time next time to kind of continue this discussion or invite
- everyone
- to take it one step further and bring an idea for for an action item for the next time for bringing
- ideas yeah i think that's good
- so discussion of equitable policing in our community as an agenda item and then we can
- follow up on our research yeah and i think i mean specific i don't know how to state this but like
- geographically equitable if that makes sense yeah yeah well and if there's any way that
- i'm really about the internet and email and things like that but with like the things
- that we're finding on the city websites with the actual numbers i also think that would be
- another jumping point to continue that conversation about right the read what's
- changed with resource officers and where where we are now and even it's like maybe downtown
- could be placed by just resource officers or you know different things like that but
- i would think of all kind of together and it's pretty easy to find to google search i found it
- while we the both both things that we were looking at the calls and the police zones on our
- city database that being said getting it into a document yeah um that's not just much of scary
- code and i would if anyone listening or participating today wants to add it to our
- drive for exam actually no we can't add it to our drive because we're not editors um or send it out
- in an email to like there is an export button i tried to do that it didn't work so user error
- most likely so if anyone knows how to do that it would be great it it took 30 seconds i'm sure i
- just checked chose the wrong thing but if anyone wants to try and do that and send it out to the
- group so we can look have something to look at or discuss next time that's helpful i looked at
- stuff
- on my phone more often than a computer so it's definitely not going to work on your phone yeah
- that's why i feel like if someone can email it then i can sit down with computer if you're
- confident
- so yeah hence me saying i'm bad at the internet i would appreciate if anyone is capable of putting
- those things into a a follow-up or an email just like hey here's all those things we were
- attempting
- to look at do we want to leave that organic or do we want to petition volunteers or all do all work
- on that you get a computer stuff a little bit i would try exporting it as an excel i tried to
- do csv which usually works yes csv is awesome that did not work for me thank you so much
- because i do use one but i don't actively choose to sit at whenever good for you that was a
- lifestyle
- choice i made and yeah being in it i i applaud you i live free i don't know if it's free i'm poor
- so i should have gotten a good experience but any other suggestions for the future agenda before
- we adjourn all right we have our i think that's a major action item and we'll follow up on it next
- then okay thank you we have to motion to adjourn motion to adjourn seconded and we are adjourned
- (orchestral music)