WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.120 - we're gonna go ahead and call this meeting to order so we'll start the 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:12.560 - meeting with a roll call and make note of any any members that show up after 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:19.500 - the roll call here so we do roll call by voice so just making sure that 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:26.820 - everybody gets to start speaking so I'll just go through Kamila Brown Sparks 00:00:26.820 --> 00:00:38.260 - gimme absent so far Robert here Aaron Jason here 00:00:38.260 --> 00:00:52.360 - cushion absent Brigitte absent kale here yeah and vacant okay not here as 00:00:52.360 --> 00:01:04.880 - expected Sharon here and now we can move to our first item approval of agenda and 00:01:04.880 --> 00:01:11.000 - approval of memorandum or minutes does anybody have an amendment they would 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:19.480 - like to make to the agenda do I think from our wonderful liaisons in new 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:28.480 - business I think we need to put in a proposal to officially cancel the usual 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:33.920 - meeting that was supposed to be on the 19th of this month because we're doing 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:50.400 - it today the last time we gathered we didn't have a quorum but a member 00:01:50.400 --> 00:02:00.280 - suggested not meeting on the 19th because of vacation schedules so the 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:05.500 - meeting then was scheduled for today as a result but the meeting on the 19th has 00:02:05.500 --> 00:02:10.960 - been noticed and it's showing on the calendar so at some point during this 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:17.680 - meeting I think it would be appropriate for the committee to vote to cancel it 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:35.840 - well yeah I've made motion to add that so do you have to do a voice vote do you 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:42.760 - know to amend the agenda? Yeah I would go I would vote on that. 00:02:42.760 --> 00:03:00.280 - Kale? Adding the agenda item to cancel the meeting. Robert? Aye. Jason? Aye. Aaron? Aye. 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:07.320 - Do we want to do that now? I mean we probably move through the reports and 00:03:07.320 --> 00:03:16.040 - stuff I mean let's just kind of keep going with the agenda keep it moving. All right so now 00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:23.400 - well so now we move to approval any other amendments to the agenda okay and 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:27.560 - then approval of minutes from last time does anybody want a chance to look at 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:44.280 - them? I'm gonna recuse myself. Anyone else? We can take a vote to approve them yeah you said you 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:59.800 - recused yourself so you okay um kale okay yeah Robert Jason yes Sharon okay so those uh minutes 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:07.080 - are approved and if you notice anything after this we can always go back and make a motion to make 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:07.160 - an 00:04:07.160 --> 00:04:17.640 - amendment uh so reports co-chairs um uh Robert do you want do you have anything to add? I don't 00:04:17.640 --> 00:04:23.720 - have anything to report uh except for what we're gonna go into with the old old business so that's 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:40.200 - it. I went to the commission on Hispanic and Latin American affairs and they um they have they're 00:04:40.200 --> 00:04:50.680 - very concerned about um um immigrate about ICE coming here and they just talked about how a lot of 00:04:53.080 --> 00:05:01.000 - immigrants legal or illegally here are are um are scared they don't want to 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:07.720 - some people don't want to even go out um and definitely don't leave the country they're 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:14.760 - afraid they can't come back even if they have citizenship and they um they have done something 00:05:14.760 --> 00:05:20.520 - called upstander training and it's it's sponsored i'm trying to find the card they gave me it's 00:05:20.520 --> 00:05:31.160 - sponsored by an organization called alert no have you heard of that alert yeah so um 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:38.440 - they have those trainings alert has those those trainings regularly and if we want to we can 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:50.360 - we can go to one yeah that's a good suggestion uh i i i used to have been in bloomington they've um 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:58.040 - you know that a couple weeks ago they were here and i don't i don't know if they uh grabbed anyone 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:08.200 - okay so you're up on this i work in bars so i work a lot with uh late night uh food and 00:06:08.200 --> 00:06:14.600 - stuff and i the main question we get often is like what's your plan for when ice comes like 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:18.760 - where do we go how do we get out of here um how do you keep us safe and stuff like that so it's 00:06:18.760 --> 00:06:24.600 - been a lot of interesting uh interesting conversations so i i have a lot to say on 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:29.000 - that too so if that means that's something we add to the the agenda then that's the movie i 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:42.120 - think is very valuable and i appreciate you bringing it up oh man uh so i want to move back 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:47.720 - and give a co-chair report and then an individual report which will tie in with what sharing just 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:54.600 - reported um in terms of co-chair um i want to circle back to what uh we've been saying 00:06:54.600 --> 00:07:04.920 - in email about the importance of um attendance as we have noted for last the last meeting um we 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:11.720 - weren't able to conduct business because we didn't have quorum and that had been an issue when we 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:12.040 - had 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:21.320 - more seats available um and now that's been limited but um i think it's important to plan ahead uh 00:07:21.320 --> 00:07:21.480 - as 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:25.320 - much as possible and communicate ahead as much as possible and i say that it's somebody who didn't 00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:32.840 - respond in the email thread to to um say that i was going to be here today um but i just wanted 00:07:32.840 --> 00:07:39.960 - to stress that um in my role as a co-chair as far as individual reports i attended uh the picnic 00:07:39.960 --> 00:07:40.200 - for 00:07:40.200 --> 00:07:49.000 - monreal county uh democrats um and they talked about specifically about ice um and how so far 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:56.120 - we've been uh the community has been pretty reactive you know alerting people when ice shows up 00:07:56.120 --> 00:08:07.080 - or when ice um and or too close to when they're arriving um and they multiple people at that picnic 00:08:07.080 --> 00:08:13.560 - expressed the desire to um build networks so that we're ready ahead of time that we're looking 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:19.320 - for it ahead of time and i think that upstander training is certainly one way to do that um i 00:08:19.320 --> 00:08:26.760 - also wanted to say that um while i was there so uh the monreal county democratic party used to have 00:08:26.760 --> 00:08:34.360 - a latino caucus which is separate from the commission and that had gone defunct um but 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:45.000 - my partner who is latinx um had started to make plans to resurrect that um so i know we've been 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:52.040 - talking about doing outreach to commissions but we can extend to all uh different uh segments in 00:08:52.040 --> 00:08:59.160 - the community doing the work that we're tasked with doing um so there's uh we're not sometimes 00:08:59.160 --> 00:09:03.080 - it might feel like we're the only ones and we have to tackle things which i know we talked about 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:03.400 - like 00:09:03.400 --> 00:09:08.920 - if there's this threat why not address it but we don't have to only be the ones addressing it and 00:09:08.920 --> 00:09:15.560 - we're not the only ones so just wanted to note that um other individual reports 00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:26.280 - since we're still pausing on committees i think that we're 00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:35.320 - we can skip that and now we can move on to the staff yes so do you guys have anything 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:42.040 - you wanted to report out on visa i feel like i surprised you in the class 00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:53.160 - no i i just have nothing to report i've already talked about the cancellation of the meeting 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.800 - christine no i have nothing to add 00:09:57.800 --> 00:10:13.800 - now we can move to public comment um and we don't have anybody in the chat okay um anybody in the 00:10:13.800 --> 00:10:21.080 - public uh in attendance uh that would like to make a comment now is the time sure yeah i'll be very 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:26.600 - brief uh my name is julius i'm uh working with the office of the mayor i'm the new legislative 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.880 - affairs specialist uh i just wanted to come in and say hi i'm learning a lot about like 00:10:31.880 --> 00:10:37.080 - the awards and commissions here at the city uh like some of the major stuff back to the mayor 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:44.280 - so i just wanted to introduce myself because you might be seeing me down the line but yeah that's 00:10:44.280 --> 00:10:53.720 - all hello that's fine i guess not so much more so just like the big ideas that you guys are talking 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:58.920 - about i can put a little bit about the like concerns about the hispanic national affairs 00:10:58.920 --> 00:11:04.760 - commission and stuff like that little clip notes yeah public kidnappings what's asterisks 00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:17.800 - so a nerd and a policy wonk you're welcome here 00:11:17.800 --> 00:11:26.200 - so i'm is about people not smooth i think you all know me i'm on the city council 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:34.600 - i wanted to report that um i'm taking part in a training cohort through the organization called 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:43.320 - local progress which is an organization of progressive local leaders from municipalities 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:50.840 - and school districts across the country and they have a training program specifically for 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:56.920 - people who want to develop a community responder program as an alternative to police response in 00:11:56.920 --> 00:12:04.040 - cases of emergency and so i jumped at that because that's near and dear to my heart and one of the 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.800 - motivations for creating this commission was to look into that kind of program as 00:12:09.800 --> 00:12:17.960 - you'll be reviewing in the report from 2023 so we had our kickoff meeting in pittsburgh about 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:25.800 - three weeks ago and it was very interesting we heard from people in minneapolis where 00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:32.840 - even before the george floyd murder they had started a community responder program and 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:40.120 - and they've gone kind of back and forth as far as reactionary to george floyd's murder and then 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:44.920 - reactionary back to no we have to have lots of police and but they have they've been able to 00:12:44.920 --> 00:12:52.680 - implement a system that we could look at and then chicago was the other group that was presenting 00:12:53.880 --> 00:13:04.200 - where they have actually city-run mental health agencies that had been shut down but they're 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:09.720 - gradually reopening them and and doing an outreach program to go along with them in 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:15.720 - certain parts of the city certain police districts in the city and that has had some success as 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:16.280 - well 00:13:16.280 --> 00:13:20.760 - and then we also since we were in alligator county pennsylvania we visited their 00:13:21.560 --> 00:13:28.520 - 9-1-1 dispatch they do have an alternative to sending police that i don't think is the 00:13:28.520 --> 00:13:32.760 - best model because it goes through the police the police get to decide whether or not to send an 00:13:32.760 --> 00:13:38.840 - alternative team but it was interesting so i just wanted to report on that and it's going to be 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:44.920 - followed by three zoom meetings and another in-person meeting in july so i'll be happy to 00:13:44.920 --> 00:13:53.800 - report back to you on that and um i i have some ideas as if you're revisiting your report from 00:13:53.800 --> 00:14:01.960 - 2023 today um so i don't know if i might be able to speak to that later in your meeting or 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:04.920 - just reach out to uh the chairs or whatever but 00:14:07.800 --> 00:14:17.000 - can you repeat the name of the group again local progress they're at localprogress.org if anybody 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.640 - wants to check them out 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:38.920 - nice okay cool um well thank you as well as always and do keep us in the loop um and then 00:14:38.920 --> 00:14:44.360 - when it makes sense we'll tap you uh for your uh insights about the report 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:53.960 - do you want to move to the item that had been added yeah i don't think that we have any other 00:14:53.960 --> 00:15:05.880 - other business yeah awesome uh so yeah i'll put motion to vote to cancel the meeting on the 19th 00:15:05.880 --> 00:15:08.920 - all right i'll second that motion 00:15:08.920 --> 00:15:22.120 - assuming that's still a voice vote so uh yes uh kip yes robert yes jason yes erin yes and sharon 00:15:22.760 --> 00:15:26.920 - yes that's officially cancelled thank you for your participation 00:15:26.920 --> 00:15:35.480 - all right um and now we move to reviewing the report 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:41.160 - um how do we want to go about this would we like to 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:52.080 - you realize i didn't switch my glasses um i was wondering why i was having trouble seeing it um 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:52.360 - yeah 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:57.800 - i mean yeah i was not sure how you would want to move forward with this i think i was just trying 00:15:57.800 --> 00:16:05.560 - to encourage folks to actually read it and try and take some notes on it if possible that we had by 00:16:05.560 --> 00:16:16.840 - way of not getting a quorum you know an extra extension so um i made a couple of notes but 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:24.280 - i would love to hear just if anybody else had anything official or just 00:16:24.280 --> 00:16:32.760 - trying to keep it kind of loose and informal unless we were having trouble getting people 00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:44.280 - weighing in on it so that was kind of my yeah um you know i think i think the main summary for me 00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:54.200 - is that i know that um ultimately there were some key recommendations and um that's definitely 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:54.440 - where 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:03.160 - i was hoping we'd ultimately focus on um and where you know isabel might be able to weigh in and 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:11.480 - and other folks as well um so i think i'll let other people have bits of the floor to see if 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:16.600 - they've got any input or questions uh or having need of clarification for anything 00:17:16.600 --> 00:17:26.200 - we could either call on everybody uh go around for hot takes like brown robin yeah yeah 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:35.800 - um i mean uh i thought i found it uh helpful like you know lots of uh the studies and things that 00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:43.640 - were brought in were very direct and also provided um really nice insight towards i did think um 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:51.960 - there was some language things that i disagreed with that removed some of the power of those 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:58.920 - results like perceptions and like instead of it being direct the then takes were then received 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:08.760 - as perceived things which um was my main takeaway but i i thought uh like at the last meeting i 00:18:08.760 --> 00:18:14.600 - guess there was the phrase um finding the roots of crime versus alternatives to policing and i 00:18:14.600 --> 00:18:20.280 - feel like that's the direction that was taken in this where when given the results that were very 00:18:20.280 --> 00:18:25.000 - much like here's some other programs or other things that have worked and then i was still 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:35.880 - focusing more on the crime aspect and housing and other things so i i felt like maybe it didn't 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:42.040 - hit on what i what i thought that the research was going for but i was hopeful to see more 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:50.760 - solution based on the policing side versus the the policed who is police side and how to fix 00:18:50.760 --> 00:18:58.120 - their problems versus finding better solutions in the structures that we can control within the 00:18:58.120 --> 00:18:58.440 - city 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:04.360 - but that was my only big takeaway that i i found 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:19.080 - thank you kyle it's helpful so for me i mean i think we're getting into some other details after 00:19:19.080 --> 00:19:24.360 - the round robin with some of the key recommendations i'd like to return to that but there was a 00:19:24.360 --> 00:19:24.600 - part of 00:19:24.600 --> 00:19:33.720 - the report where it talked about evaluating and selecting and i didn't quite see where like the 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:41.480 - report said that we did that but i didn't quite see it covered in the report and i missed that 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:50.680 - somewhere evaluating selecting yeah i don't have the page reference at the in an immediate at hand 00:19:50.680 --> 00:20:00.680 - yeah step so basically where we were talking about the eight steps in the design centered 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:08.600 - entrepreneurship process so this is well i think i'll try and refer to the packet since we've got 00:20:08.600 --> 00:20:16.280 - that since we've got that here that is going to put us on 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:33.320 - yeah i guess this is as far as our packet here page 11 mentioned you know this report documents 00:20:33.320 --> 00:20:40.840 - up to and including step five and i did i felt like i was missing that that's just so it's really 00:20:40.840 --> 00:20:54.120 - just more an observation but um i'll be eager to kind of move with that and figuring out how 00:20:54.120 --> 00:21:00.600 - we can move on to these other steps in light of the report yeah yeah 00:21:00.600 --> 00:21:04.920 - yep i mean everything else is just me 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:14.360 - summarizing what it was in the report as far as my notes so that's all again thank you 00:21:14.360 --> 00:21:25.640 - so i feel a little bit of pressure because i'm the only one in the room who worked on the report 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:31.560 - but looking back at it i'm remembering some of the things some of the decisions we made 00:21:31.560 --> 00:21:37.800 - hearing some of the things that you're saying help me to understand what was clear to me as part of 00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:43.800 - participant in the research but maybe not not be clear to somebody reading the report freshly 00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:53.000 - also some of it takes into account the history of this commission and some of the pushback we've 00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:01.640 - gotten and some of the ways we've adjusted our approach regarding the report specifically 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:11.880 - i returned to some of the documents that go with it clarifying the the question the frequently 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:12.120 - asked 00:22:12.120 --> 00:22:20.520 - questions that clarified some misunderstandings but i will say that from some of the research that 00:22:20.520 --> 00:22:28.520 - we've gotten and i want to honor your critique and i think that it definitely should be considered 00:22:28.520 --> 00:22:36.350 - but one of the reasons we went to the root cause analysis is an attempt to try to appeal to 00:22:36.350 --> 00:22:36.600 - different 00:22:36.600 --> 00:22:45.800 - people which is definitely doesn't seem to put an onus on on changing the structures so i think 00:22:45.800 --> 00:22:50.280 - that's something that we i would agree with that i think we should keep in mind as we review the 00:22:50.280 --> 00:22:55.640 - report and how we want to take some of the findings in it and make them more actionable 00:22:55.640 --> 00:23:07.000 - to make changes now that's all for now i just want to clarify before i fully open my mouth 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:14.360 - what are we doing are we like in feelings corner are we sharing our feelings about the report 00:23:14.360 --> 00:23:21.960 - and then if so to what end like to make a an action plan to edit the report i thought it was 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.200 - a jump off point that's the way i perceive what was assigned after the last meeting was kind of 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:33.080 - like after reading the point what can we use this ground work for to continue this commission into 00:23:33.080 --> 00:23:40.920 - the work we're heading towards okay thank you then i would then kind of re-emphasize what 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:45.720 - jennifer crossley had been kind of repeatedly bringing up in the meetings that she attended 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:53.240 - previously and always in any action that we take or any of our time spent here both in a meeting or 00:23:53.240 --> 00:24:00.520 - outside the commission to always remember our mission and to make sure that we are devoting 00:24:00.520 --> 00:24:07.320 - our time efficiently and wisely to meet the the ends of our mission and so then i would direct 00:24:07.320 --> 00:24:18.040 - everyone back to the governing statute and i think that the 2023 report checks every one of the 00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:26.680 - four first boxes in the governing statute it uh gathers data on perceptions and preferences 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:34.760 - it researches evidence-based alternatives to traditional policing it identifies best practices 00:24:34.760 --> 00:24:45.640 - and it makes recommendations and so at this juncture i would pose a question to my fellow 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:54.360 - commission members um whether or not we want to you know what what do we want to do with that 00:24:54.360 --> 00:25:02.040 - because we've accomplished we've accomplished a goal so to speak in 2023 so do we want to expand 00:25:02.040 --> 00:25:11.320 - on that do we want to pick some areas and update the research and make new recommendations or do 00:25:11.320 --> 00:25:18.680 - we want to kind of table the report and put the brain trust together and think of entirely new 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:26.680 - areas that we could then do the four mission markers you know gather data research alternatives 00:25:28.760 --> 00:25:36.200 - because i i think there's a lot of work to do in our community and i have faith in our commission 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:42.920 - and other governing bodies to do that and i think we got to use our time super wisely so i 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:51.400 - to boil that down to distill it i acknowledge i appreciate and i accept the findings in the 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:58.760 - 2023 report and i would encourage my fellow commission members to you know familiarize that 00:25:58.760 --> 00:26:03.960 - yourselves with that in your own time and then come with an idea i don't have an idea today 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:09.960 - but that is my two cents for how to move forward thank you 00:26:14.840 --> 00:26:33.320 - sharon well actually this segue from erin's comments i'm thinking about 00:26:33.320 --> 00:26:44.200 - the comparison of what's going on now in in bloomington as compared to two years ago 00:26:44.760 --> 00:26:56.200 - has crime stayed high is higher i think the report said that it went it had gone up from 2019 right 00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:07.400 - in the beginning um until 2023 so what's happened since then and the social workers and um unarmed 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:23.480 - officers in the bpd have they helped um let me see yeah so and i made a note about brooklyn 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:29.640 - something from brooklyn i don't i don't remember what it referred to but 00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:40.920 - yeah maybe we can actually find out about just move it forward and find out if these 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:51.640 - changes that were instituted have brought crime down and if they feel like this has been 00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:58.760 - successful if the bpg feels like it's been successful the the officers the and officers 00:27:58.760 --> 00:28:04.760 - and social workers themselves feel like they're doing something they're being successful in their 00:28:04.760 --> 00:28:14.280 - job maybe we that's a way to sort of continue this report or bring it to the next step 00:28:14.280 --> 00:28:21.400 - if i may bounce on that because i think that's a really good idea for a next step that we could 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:21.640 - take 00:28:22.600 --> 00:28:29.400 - is just at a bare minimum the first thing we do is look at numbers and what has changed 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:40.440 - since the report was uh initially finalized and dispersed um and i don't and it when you were 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:45.320 - speaking at raised what like what does it even mean to say crime has gone up or down does that 00:28:45.320 --> 00:28:51.400 - mean we have a larger militarized police that are arresting more people does that really mean 00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:59.080 - that more crime is occurring or so i i would love to look at an intersectional layout of numbers if 00:28:59.080 --> 00:29:06.040 - we can and that's step one on our mission and our governing statute is gather data and perceptions 00:29:06.040 --> 00:29:13.960 - and so you know at a bare minimum i don't know if our county is even collecting the data that would 00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:20.440 - be really helpful so if we have any like graduate students like that have a bunch of expertise and 00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:27.080 - time on their hands i don't know but to just look at number of arrests this year compared to 2023 00:29:27.080 --> 00:29:34.520 - and even more you know where the arrests occurred what kind of officer what were they responding to 00:29:34.520 --> 00:29:40.440 - were they even responding or were they already policing that area so i think that looking at 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:46.040 - data and if we have that in front of us to look at what has changed since 2023 i think our mission 00:29:46.040 --> 00:29:55.240 - will then it will reveal itself organically the question i bring down too is like what's changed 00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:01.880 - since has any like even with the the conversation about resource officers and non it's like 00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:07.800 - have they actually been used or police still responding to those calls or yeah it's like is 00:30:07.800 --> 00:30:12.600 - the because they are still coming through the police and the police are always the first even 00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:18.840 - when requested a police officer still is the first one there so yeah those questions popped 00:30:18.840 --> 00:30:27.720 - up throughout being like what's changed and how so when someone calls 911 automatically 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:32.280 - an armed officer will go or sometimes that's been their personal experience at night time so i'm 00:30:32.280 --> 00:30:36.440 - mostly a night time person but i've most of the times that i've had to call which i 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:43.000 - are rules to never call um it's always been the case where i've requested and i've been sent 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:49.320 - someone else first but that could be a small microcosm of my world but then also i feel like 00:30:49.320 --> 00:30:54.120 - that might be something that you could find out through this information or on a larger scale 00:30:54.120 --> 00:31:01.320 - like who is responding is are these resource officers being utilized appropriately are they 00:31:01.320 --> 00:31:08.440 - being given the power to respond first are they and no one's collecting those numbers yes so one 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:14.760 - thing that we can't that we do have in our hand we can ask we can obtain policy documents so i 00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:22.680 - think our three we have three law enforcement agencies in bloomington uh iupd bpd and sheriff's 00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:28.520 - office state police are out here more right but i i'm just saying for our jurisdiction of course 00:31:28.520 --> 00:31:35.400 - we have like ellisville and state ease and all of them um police state right uh but i think that we 00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:43.880 - can add if if we want to add an action item for next week we can take volunteers to identify where 00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:51.000 - we can find out some information and then and to bring that next time to say hey i've figured out 00:31:51.000 --> 00:32:00.040 - that this tracks this metric um and then also we could take volunteers to call i i'm happy to call 00:32:00.040 --> 00:32:09.240 - our law enforcement agencies to just see their policies on who they send and to what report 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:14.200 - or are they just driving around waiting for someone to flag them down 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:20.770 - yeah i'd be intrigued to see what kind of information you could get out of that so aaron is that is 00:32:20.770 --> 00:32:21.000 - all 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:31.240 - that documented if a call comes in and someone goes out to this to the site um is that all that 00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:38.040 - documented who who goes and in theory there is a document there's a paper trail every time a call 00:32:38.040 --> 00:32:46.680 - comes in starting with 911 a cad report is initiated and that can either just go right 00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:54.920 - from the computer from the printer to the shredder um or it can be given to a person and then that 00:32:54.920 --> 00:33:07.560 - can be sent to whoever's um i'm having pregnancy brain but whoever sends the people out 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:17.320 - there's dispatch yeah a dispatcher sends um someone out and that adds there's an automatic record 00:33:17.320 --> 00:33:21.880 - whether or not the responding officer or anyone actually types the way they're supposed to and 00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:28.360 - fill in a police report there is a record of a call coming in and someone being dispatched 00:33:30.760 --> 00:33:37.720 - i don't i don't practice a lot of civil law so i don't know about a FOIA request 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:44.200 - if that would if we would be even allowed to say hey can i have all of your 00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:52.600 - cad reports it probably costs money too i don't know um but 00:33:52.600 --> 00:33:59.400 - yeah because i know that we can request individual ones we could go to the 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:07.160 - um courthouse and say it's public information i would like this police report from and you have 00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:12.680 - to pay for them to print it but um i'm sure we could perhaps bypass that with a freedom of 00:34:12.680 --> 00:34:20.280 - information act request but don't quote me that is not my area of expertise um so we would want to 00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:32.440 - talk to something like that i think i think the budget is really for books and materials 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:39.320 - i'd have to look at the specific line item 00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:46.760 - but do you know are you referring to making this request with the bloomington police department 00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:55.560 - yeah do you know do they do they have a policy in place where they charge for copies directly 00:34:55.560 --> 00:35:02.760 - from them you get it from the county clerk and they charge to print okay so i don't know i mean 00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:09.800 - as a technical matter under uh the access to public records act 00:35:11.640 --> 00:35:18.200 - you can be charged for a request if the governing body has adopted 00:35:18.200 --> 00:35:25.560 - um a policy with a fee schedule and so forth so if they've done that yeah then i'm sure that they 00:35:25.560 --> 00:35:30.840 - have there's a fee schedule okay and i think the only way we could get around that is to subpoena 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:39.000 - the records and i don't think we have so it would probably be quite expensive to obtain all those 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:43.960 - and so it may be worth looking in and that would only tell us so much that could tell us 00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:52.840 - how many calls came in and what time of year and if they dispatch that it it would be a very black 00:35:52.840 --> 00:36:08.520 - and white but it still would so so first of all the um there are public portals of data 00:36:09.080 --> 00:36:14.920 - from the city of bloomington and i think you can get some basic data there how many calls went in 00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:22.440 - how they were coded things like that um there's there are also reports that go 00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:27.400 - monthly to the board of public safety that are on their website that you could look at 00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:37.560 - for further details and i i i'm pretty sure that the uh the public information isn't going to give 00:36:37.560 --> 00:36:43.800 - you the level of detail that's really very helpful um the uh 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:52.920 - i myself and some colleagues uh convinced the mayor to put ten thousand dollars in the budget 00:36:52.920 --> 00:37:03.000 - for this um this year 2025 to hire an outside consultant to look at our 911 calls um to see 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:11.480 - which might be addressed by a community responder program versus by police and there's um an 00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:18.520 - organization uh called law enforcement action partnership that actually i think jason you were 00:37:18.520 --> 00:37:24.280 - on the call and cammy was on the call last year when we talked to them um they sound very um 00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:32.120 - business as usual policing but they are actually a reform non-profit um and they analyze 911 calls 00:37:32.120 --> 00:37:39.720 - and help set up community responder programs so um i our central dispatch right now has gone 00:37:39.720 --> 00:37:45.080 - through some human resources challenges but i'm i'm still hopeful by the end of the year that we 00:37:45.080 --> 00:37:55.080 - can get this study of the data done so i i don't i i think it would be good to at least you know 00:37:55.080 --> 00:38:00.920 - let's be optimistic and hope this will get done uh sometime soon um and that you won't have to 00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:07.720 - resort to the kind of you know uh efforts that would take a lot of your time and 00:38:07.720 --> 00:38:15.560 - be a lot of work and you're not you're all not professionals at this kind of thing so it would 00:38:15.560 --> 00:38:22.040 - be great if we had this group or a similar group analyze those calls so that would tell us 00:38:22.040 --> 00:38:23.560 - something 00:38:23.560 --> 00:38:33.240 - about the calls coming in would it tell us about who goes out to respond yes if that i assume that 00:38:33.240 --> 00:38:39.720 - information is collected so yes that would give us that information i'm looking at the calls for 00:38:39.720 --> 00:38:46.200 - service city of blueington open data and it looks like we get the case number time month weekday 00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:56.360 - nature district agency and report that all being said someone with much greater tech expertise than 00:38:56.360 --> 00:39:04.170 - me is going to need to right and what they usually find what we've been talking to leave last 00:39:04.170 --> 00:39:04.760 - summer 00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:11.400 - they said you know the most CAD systems have a nature of the call that is not descriptive 00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:16.200 - right it doesn't really tell you what really happened so they actually dive into the notes 00:39:16.200 --> 00:39:23.960 - attached to each call and goes through to to further categorize the calls so um i mean it 00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:28.360 - is a major undertaking but i think it is something that needs to be done and it looks like it was 00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:29.000 - just 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:37.640 - last updated yesterday so i'm encouraged oh i think i got it with that um project that you're 00:39:37.640 --> 00:39:43.800 - hopeful to go forward is i know you said that the HR stuff is there a timeline is it like within 00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:43.960 - the 00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:49.000 - year or is it it was budgeted for this year okay that's why i wanted i was like because i mean 00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:53.400 - we're only here for you know so i want to make sure it was maybe it would be within our time so 00:39:53.400 --> 00:40:00.520 - we could utilize it properly but hopefully it'll yeah optimism is on your side i will keep asking 00:40:02.680 --> 00:40:08.920 - um i'm also wondering do you remember when the unarmed officers and social workers started 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:14.760 - working with the social workers started what 2019 00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:18.680 - i think it was before 00:40:18.680 --> 00:40:29.000 - the summer of reckoning 2020 um but maybe it wasn't maybe that was their answer to it 00:40:29.640 --> 00:40:36.520 - and of course um a lot of people objected to the social workers being under the police yeah which 00:40:36.520 --> 00:40:54.440 - is problematic um so maybe it wasn't 2020 2019 or 2020 and they they've actually um had a national 00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:59.720 - conference of these social workers and Bloomington has become an example 00:40:59.720 --> 00:41:03.960 - they're very proud of their social work 00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:16.760 - so is there some way that we can talk to someone who's done this and sort of get their 00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:26.440 - you mean the social workers yeah we could definitely reach out mark fabrics is somebody who's been 00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:32.280 - involved for a while he's somewhat responsive so if we wanted to do the outreach that we've been 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:38.920 - planning on um connecting i guess gathering data maybe a couple of the others um then we could 00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:45.750 - reach out to them um i think what isabel suggested is very important like somebody who is 00:41:45.750 --> 00:41:46.360 - specialized 00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:51.240 - in this um it might be better to pay them because the other thing i was thinking about as this 00:41:51.240 --> 00:41:51.480 - thread 00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:58.920 - was going on um is the start program which we've met which i've mentioned um we could get people 00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:11.080 - in iu that are um students who are working on who have advisors um who know about qualitative data 00:42:11.080 --> 00:42:18.280 - analysis um if we wanted specific some specific element of those police reports um we could get 00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:31.800 - that um so that's that's what that was i just found found it in the 2025 public safety report 00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:41.560 - so the social worker started 2019 and then the community service specialist began in 2020 00:42:41.560 --> 00:42:54.760 - i know ultimately in the report there were like three recommendations that were 00:42:54.760 --> 00:43:00.040 - and i know when i was reading over the report it just seemed like that was kind of our 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:07.720 - jumping off point i don't know how much that changes in light of us trying to get updated numbers 00:43:07.720 --> 00:43:14.280 - but i didn't know if we wanted to look at that a little bit more closely 00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:25.800 - that was you know the uh basically a feasibility study for the department of community safety and 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:32.760 - resilience a city-wide incorporation of public safety indicators 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:41.240 - so this starts on page 37 of the report what does that put us in the packet 00:43:41.240 --> 00:43:51.160 - i want to say that's page 11 of the overall packet no that's not it 00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:55.320 - um 00:43:55.320 --> 00:44:00.440 - jump let's pass that 00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:09.320 - oh yeah this would be 00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:21.640 - page 34 of the packet i want to say it starts off with that 00:44:21.640 --> 00:44:30.680 - but then where it really starts listing them on is page 39 of the little packet if you want to jump 00:44:30.680 --> 00:44:46.200 - to there no you don't have page things yeah so the yeah so 00:44:46.200 --> 00:44:57.240 - so there um it sounds this sounds like a pretty concrete um recommendation which i don't know if 00:44:57.240 --> 00:45:03.480 - you'd be able to lend uh history to but i mean part of there i was doing an independent study 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:10.600 - to assess that my interpretation of this and i could be wrong is that i feel like this dovetails 00:45:10.600 --> 00:45:14.520 - really nicely into some of the other stuff that we've talked about in the beginning with like you 00:45:14.520 --> 00:45:21.640 - know um uh you know looking at looking at dispatch and you know how to connect to dispatch with 00:45:21.640 --> 00:45:22.120 - other 00:45:22.120 --> 00:45:30.360 - other services besides you know police uh police fire um so places like a stride center and things 00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:39.000 - like that um this seems like our most concrete jumping off point but this feasibility study 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:47.800 - does talk about you know a qualified firm to look at that i i don't know what that looks like for 00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:48.360 - us 00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:56.440 - i don't know if you could lend like historical perspective on that yeah so the feasibility 00:45:56.440 --> 00:46:02.120 - study is something that we we had to clarify because key recommendation number one also talks 00:46:02.120 --> 00:46:11.720 - about the department of community safety and resilience which we uh kind of established as 00:46:13.240 --> 00:46:22.120 - doing the work that other communities in our research have done and as public comment spoke 00:46:22.120 --> 00:46:29.090 - to people did were resistant to the idea of social workers being being embedded in the police from 00:46:29.090 --> 00:46:29.320 - my 00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:34.760 - own research in the denver star program they started with being embedded in the police and 00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:41.000 - overseen by the police to becoming a separate entity and so others other cities that we looked 00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:50.600 - at there was separation too but the feasibility study is was more important to us and we clarified 00:46:50.600 --> 00:46:57.000 - that in the frequently asked questions is that we're not experts we synthesized the data that 00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:03.960 - we gathered and suggested that it would be nice for us to have something separated so the feasibility 00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:10.840 - study is is something that we were really pushing for and it had some support from council members 00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:17.240 - when our report was finished and that was to see like what improvements could be made 00:47:17.240 --> 00:47:25.320 - hopefully that clarifies a little bit yeah other follow-up well i mean 00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:33.240 - i think for me i'm just trying to figure out how how we how we move forward in a measurable 00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:39.160 - way to get that started right but then we've also got the other recommendations 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:45.120 - which i feel like when i first started and i was like drinking from the fire hose there was 00:47:45.120 --> 00:47:45.640 - mentioned 00:47:45.640 --> 00:47:55.240 - of the public key or key safety indicators that we have kpis kpis yeah um so 00:47:55.240 --> 00:48:05.320 - i'm unclear where we are with that and moving that forward yeah um so unfortunately um 00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:13.000 - uh ex-commissioner routsong and commissioner brown sparks met with the mayor to discuss that 00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:20.520 - and i think updated the key performance indicators the rationale behind that was a better way of 00:48:20.520 --> 00:48:30.760 - measuring um in a quantitative way whether safety is being met um and uh if it's if those key 00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:35.320 - performance indicators indicated that it wasn't being met then that would trigger looking at 00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:41.960 - the entities that are in charge of uh addressing that so the police being a major one but then also 00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:47.000 - the state the social workers um and the fire department other other departments that have 00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:54.360 - taken on um the needs of addressing things like mental health that we don't have um a specific 00:48:54.360 --> 00:49:03.240 - like mental health assessment body doing so so when we updated the mayor did we get any feedback 00:49:03.240 --> 00:49:12.840 - from that office of what now that means what's the next steps for that right um we did um but 00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:17.000 - cami would be the only one able to speak to that that is currently on the commission 00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:32.040 - oh yeah she was in the meeting um and we didn't form an official 00:49:32.040 --> 00:49:39.240 - report um i think between that meeting and the intent to talk about that commissioner 00:49:39.240 --> 00:49:48.040 - routsong resigned from the commission um due to life circumstances okay so maybe if we want to 00:49:48.040 --> 00:49:52.280 - get down if we want to start looking at like potential action items for the next time trying 00:49:52.280 --> 00:50:02.520 - get cam commission sparks to to uh either send an email or maybe report at the next meeting 00:50:02.520 --> 00:50:07.800 - yeah sounds that i want to be aware of of her time and her 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:17.640 - we can do that we could also do outreach to community member uh nashla routsong um 00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:22.600 - and uh see if they'd be willing to share their notes okay 00:50:22.600 --> 00:50:35.240 - all right and then the promote inclusion and awareness felt like the most 00:50:35.240 --> 00:50:41.560 - maybe i need to reread it the most vague to me so i don't even know what we could 00:50:41.560 --> 00:51:02.040 - like what page is that number three yeah page 43 in the packet yeah 00:51:06.520 --> 00:51:12.840 - i kind of i've kind of interpreted this as dependent on the first two but i don't know 00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:17.960 - yeah t are part of yeah 00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:20.440 - so 00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:31.080 - i mean for me i'm just trying to figure out how to move these recommendations forward 00:51:31.080 --> 00:51:37.240 - in a in a measurable way yeah and i am just me 00:51:37.240 --> 00:51:43.480 - yeah i think that's a good question to call 00:51:43.480 --> 00:52:00.280 - i wanted to uh suggest something for you to consider um so we were uh at the pittsburgh um 00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:13.000 - training um i think it was in chicago they did a community survey to support um a a mental health 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:18.760 - crisis response team in the parts of chicago where they where they were considering it where 00:52:18.760 --> 00:52:25.400 - there was a mental health center that they could use as a base um and that really helped uh get 00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:34.040 - convinced the city government to to fund such a thing so um i was making maybe a survey here in 00:52:34.040 --> 00:52:40.840 - bloomington could also prompt the mayor and the county government to more seriously consider a 00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:48.360 - community response program and i did talk to lisa laner about funding such a thing and she thought 00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:56.040 - that your budget could be used for that purpose if you so choose to do it so that some professional 00:52:56.040 --> 00:53:03.560 - organization somebody with expertise in surveys could could develop such a thing so i'll throw 00:53:03.560 --> 00:53:10.280 - that out as because it it does fall under this goal of promoting inclusion and awareness you know 00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:19.640 - but ask ask people what they what they want how they think that um public safety can be improved 00:53:19.640 --> 00:53:28.200 - using uh kind of non-traditional um entities and and who would take the survey or who would it be 00:53:28.200 --> 00:53:36.120 - distributed to well i think it would it would have to go through a random cross-section of 00:53:36.120 --> 00:53:42.760 - people in bloomington and a survey company or the iu center for survey research would be an option 00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:50.840 - oh i would be in charge of you know getting a big cross-section so not specifically to um 00:53:50.840 --> 00:54:01.160 - how i felt mental health professionals i mean i think you could you could decide that amongst 00:54:01.160 --> 00:54:08.840 - yourselves i i need to follow up with the city council member from chicago and see i could i 00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:15.400 - could ask who did their survey like they send it to um my impression was it was a general survey 00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:21.640 - that anybody could fill out i also want to get a copy of it yeah 00:54:26.040 --> 00:54:32.840 - so is he leaving for leaving for the meeting or is he coming back later he's coming back 00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:37.800 - okay he needs to move his vehicle i believe that's fine yeah yeah 00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:42.520 - do we have to wait for him technically i don't 00:54:42.520 --> 00:54:52.760 - do we have to wait for him technically technically if we are doing this meeting 00:54:52.760 --> 00:55:02.600 - i guess we're less than quorum yeah 00:55:02.600 --> 00:55:18.200 - it's never going to understand what i say 00:55:22.120 --> 00:55:22.760 - never mind 00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:35.480 - okay um on that survey i feel like i've taken a couple surveys recently through the city 00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:41.000 - that have been powered by something but about like parking and then about hearts and about this i 00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:46.600 - feel like is there that capability within the city that can be outsourced for a survey 00:55:47.480 --> 00:55:52.520 - like chas chas has sent me the last three and i've filled them all out but she's in the 00:55:52.520 --> 00:55:57.960 - i think the external consultants the city hires does those okay cool that's all i was like i was 00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:24.840 - sure are we allowed to jump off of things from earlier of maybe like the recommendations for next 00:56:25.640 --> 00:56:32.840 - agenda things like how does that work yeah i guess i want to follow up on the earlier statement 00:56:32.840 --> 00:56:33.160 - about 00:56:33.160 --> 00:56:39.480 - ice and our police's involvement and our city's involvement with ice um i know i've had 00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:40.280 - conversations 00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:50.280 - with people and um with city officials and i've been sent emails about the city's stance on that 00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:57.720 - and fear of funding and federal government stuff and state government stuff but i i guess i would 00:56:57.720 --> 00:57:07.560 - because that is kind of in our purview wonder how what policies exist for our police that they 00:57:07.560 --> 00:57:16.200 - when when another uh agency comes in whether it be state or because we've had issues with state 00:57:16.200 --> 00:57:22.440 - police overstepping we're not overstepping with their balance but pointing snipers you know stuff 00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:31.240 - stuff like that like how what's what's our actual bloomington um policy on when a federal thing or 00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:37.400 - when ice comes or how how do how do they interact or react i was told by the mayor one thing during 00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:43.640 - a meeting but that has since not been true so i i guess i'm intrigued to know where to find that 00:57:43.640 --> 00:57:50.600 - information and how to then because if we're supposed to build these networks to support 00:57:50.600 --> 00:57:56.920 - our neighbors and make them feel like we have their backs or we're going to alert people or 00:57:56.920 --> 00:58:02.120 - we're going to help them through this maybe knowing how the bloomington police department 00:58:02.120 --> 00:58:13.160 - engages and also a direct understanding of how the mayor and the city will also engage with those 00:58:13.160 --> 00:58:21.320 - or engage or not engage with ice when they come and also i guess the jail you know county so 00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:29.720 - lots of lots of uh i know the detainees were taken to kentucky i believe um so we did not hold them 00:58:29.720 --> 00:58:36.840 - but i know we have done ice holds before um but i'm just intrigued on policy there and how that 00:58:38.200 --> 00:58:42.700 - can tie into whatever mission we're jumping in towards towards alternative policing and 00:58:42.700 --> 00:58:43.560 - understanding 00:58:43.560 --> 00:58:49.000 - exactly what kind of policing is happening when outside police or agents or federal things come in 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:57.720 - i i would think that it would be in the municipal code i'm just telling you i've never looked at 00:58:57.720 --> 00:58:57.800 - the 00:58:57.800 --> 00:59:02.760 - internet so that's why i say i say words and then yeah someone can break it down and tell it to me 00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:11.080 - and then if your city websites are not my friend and from listening to that one i agree um that 00:59:11.080 --> 00:59:21.320 - that's something that's important um and um i'm internally remembering um that what our call is 00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:28.360 - right because i think it's important we can look into it and i think in the past we've tried to 00:59:28.360 --> 00:59:34.680 - form our own response but i think what's important is to clarify that and communicate that that's 00:59:34.680 --> 00:59:34.920 - one 00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:41.000 - thing um because if it's hard for us to find right then people who are not as engaged um 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:47.080 - might pay attention to any outlet with any information so coming from us i think that's 00:59:47.080 --> 00:59:51.240 - that is important yeah and then potentially making recommendations at the end of your 00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:59.880 - ways to policy to exist or clarifying things to make that easier for people to digest and 00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:00.360 - understand 01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:07.800 - exactly who's going to serve or protect them yeah absolutely and how 01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:15.640 - yeah you all know that the sheriff is being sued by the attorney general in dm because he won't do 01:00:15.640 --> 01:00:25.320 - ice homes oh there was that report released where we were the one city the one city in indiana but 01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:31.240 - it's also like yeah if we're gonna we're gonna be that then let's let's be it you know have some 01:00:31.240 --> 01:00:38.600 - teeth about it that's why my recommendations will all be back in our sheriff's office 01:00:38.600 --> 01:00:43.560 - you do not in our prosecutor's office yeah i don't have zero faith in prosecutor's office but 01:00:43.720 --> 01:00:47.000 - i think there are some lines 01:00:47.000 --> 01:01:07.640 - i guess yeah i just the goals that i i think the report was the the research was very informative 01:01:07.640 --> 01:01:13.400 - and i was appreciative of the different outlets that were brought into it and i did thoroughly 01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:18.600 - i was like oh great you know like these are the things that i was hopeful would be in there 01:01:18.600 --> 01:01:23.960 - i was just hopeful that is a commission now we can actually take it and be like here's the things 01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:27.880 - that we would recommend that would be concrete and here's things that we can be like we did all 01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:28.040 - this 01:01:28.040 --> 01:01:32.920 - research we gathered all this if we're going to be asking the mayor or the city council to listen 01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:33.080 - to 01:01:33.080 --> 01:01:38.520 - us or particularly take our advice or recommendations maybe we by the end of next year before the 01:01:38.520 --> 01:01:38.760 - budget 01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:47.960 - we have like or before the next we have some real concrete policy suggestions or recommendations 01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:56.840 - behind the research that we find post that report and what can what can happen because i know there 01:01:56.840 --> 01:02:02.360 - was a conversation about translators within the police department and hoping for translation 01:02:02.920 --> 01:02:09.000 - technology but then they're not being budgeted there but then 11 more police officers and everyone 01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:15.480 - get in a 16 000 dollar raise per head you know maybe they have to learn spanish to get a raise 01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:20.600 - i don't know stuff like that but like there's got to be things tangibly that we can actually 01:02:20.600 --> 01:02:28.440 - that would help keep our latinx community at least somewhat safer because then at least they're 01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:33.800 - understood when they're being policed or helped 01:02:33.800 --> 01:02:51.160 - so does anybody know if it's a legal obligation for our sheriff to do ice holes or to arrest 01:02:51.160 --> 01:02:58.040 - people that they don't have to kidnap anyone without a court order 01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:05.480 - like if the if a court has ordered them to carry out they need everyone all of us needs to comply 01:03:05.480 --> 01:03:13.160 - with what our judicial leaders on high say in a valid order but without a valid judicial order 01:03:13.160 --> 01:03:18.200 - and without proper protocols we're just sending thugs out to kidnap people and they don't have 01:03:18.200 --> 01:03:26.720 - to do that in fact some would argue that they shouldn't do that and there hasn't been any court 01:03:26.720 --> 01:03:27.480 - order i 01:03:27.480 --> 01:03:32.040 - don't think there's been any proof of any of them being court ordered no across the country it 01:03:32.040 --> 01:03:32.200 - would 01:03:32.200 --> 01:03:40.600 - have to be identification they'd have to identify a person and i don't know some right then we're 01:03:40.600 --> 01:03:46.280 - getting into a habeas corpus issue like there has to be a legal justification to to detain someone 01:03:47.720 --> 01:03:55.320 - to assign warrant by a judge yeah identifying officers that would be my interpretation of it 01:03:55.320 --> 01:04:00.440 - right yeah there are a variety of different ways that a law enforcement officer can detain someone 01:04:00.440 --> 01:04:05.320 - off the street if they committed a felony right in front of them for example they're allowed to 01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:13.560 - detain that person pending charges if a neutral and detached magistrate or judicial officer has 01:04:13.560 --> 01:04:21.240 - found that there is probable cause to detain someone suspected of a crime then they can also 01:04:21.240 --> 01:04:30.680 - go and get that person but it gets a little more complicated when we have just gone beyond the law 01:04:30.680 --> 01:04:38.760 - but going to an apartment complex or a bar and suspecting someone of not having documents is not 01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:47.960 - i would encourage all of my fellow citizens to for civil disobedience and not comply unless they 01:04:47.960 --> 01:04:48.200 - are 01:04:48.200 --> 01:04:56.280 - shown a copy of a valid warrant with that person's name on it saying i'm you know this is signed by 01:04:56.280 --> 01:04:56.440 - a 01:04:56.440 --> 01:05:00.760 - judge and they have a right to come get if there's no valid warrant again they're just kidnapping 01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:10.840 - people so disrupt yeah disrupt them delay yeah disrupt you don't have to move your body you don't 01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:16.920 - have to help them complete their mission they are allowed to lie to you though they are allowed to 01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:24.120 - say that if you don't do this i'm going to do that do x y and z or you have to do x y and z 01:05:24.120 --> 01:05:28.120 - that's what makes it complicated so i tell all my clients never take legal advice from cops 01:05:28.120 --> 01:05:35.320 - because they're going to tell you a lot of stuff and most of it is not true 01:05:35.320 --> 01:05:44.440 - that reminds me of another thing do you know about the red cards yeah that's that's exodus 01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:50.040 - right yeah yeah yeah um and there's efforts to distribute spanish this in spanish because 01:05:50.040 --> 01:05:56.600 - this is in english and i believe exodus is a nonprofit that has uh lots of those and are able 01:05:56.600 --> 01:06:01.640 - and are willing to bring them to wherever you need them or to anyone from what i just said at the 01:06:01.640 --> 01:06:05.880 - non-profit meeting with the mayor that was their goal was to get as many of those red cards out 01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:14.600 - as possible and also they have them in spanish yeah so exodus is a non-profit working for immigrant 01:06:14.600 --> 01:06:27.320 - safety 01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:37.000 - informing people because this is nice that we're all informed i'm very thankful erin for you being 01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:44.040 - here and being able to speak to that uh but then like sharing this recording now with other people 01:06:44.040 --> 01:06:49.960 - or you know spreading those documents that that's part of the infrastructure right this doesn't 01:06:49.960 --> 01:06:54.680 - count as official formal legal advice especially if it leaves this jurisdiction and you haven't 01:06:54.680 --> 01:07:20.280 - hired me to represent you these are my personal opinions 01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:25.320 - okay question 01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:39.000 - if you're making a to-do list um another way that this report could be helpful is if you would 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:47.080 - update um the progress of other communities um you have some great case studies but it's been 01:07:47.800 --> 01:07:53.880 - you know two or three years since you talked with them and there are other um cities that 01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:58.920 - are not mentioned in the report that are that are that have developed community responder programs 01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:09.080 - like albuquerque minneapolis austin um so if you have the bandwidth um some updates 01:08:09.080 --> 01:08:16.280 - from other communities and what some best practices uh might be would be helpful 01:08:16.280 --> 01:08:25.560 - um 01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:41.160 - that's how i learn about a lot of these things safer cities.org they send a newsletter 01:08:41.160 --> 01:08:45.400 - they're all about community responder global crisis 01:08:45.400 --> 01:08:54.680 - response programs 01:08:54.680 --> 01:09:15.160 - i guess one of the other things that i'm i'm interested in maybe it's a broader thing 01:09:15.400 --> 01:09:24.760 - but um looking into like the like passive more passive policing and um jurisdiction for 01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:29.240 - pullovers jurisdiction for how because you would mention like were they already patrolling the 01:09:29.240 --> 01:09:35.560 - area earlier and i do feel like our city is hard patrol um there i've seen more cops than i see 01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:39.510 - other cars and i walk three blocks to work every day unless of course you drive through sterling 01:09:39.510 --> 01:09:39.880 - woods 01:09:39.880 --> 01:09:44.920 - yeah yeah it's amazing how there's just no cops there's none there yeah well i must live downtown 01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:53.320 - uh yeah yeah well behind their closed doors uh and yeah that's the one thing i i think uh down 01:09:53.320 --> 01:09:59.240 - there's got to be i know some cities have i've read a little bit about it so maybe i would 01:09:59.240 --> 01:10:05.240 - do that deeper research to figure out how that works or and i especially since you're in law 01:10:05.240 --> 01:10:05.960 - knowing 01:10:05.960 --> 01:10:09.880 - well i anticipate you're gonna have a lot of roadblocks there because they're not going to 01:10:09.880 --> 01:10:14.360 - tell us where they police because that's essentially telling the community hey that 01:10:14.360 --> 01:10:19.960 - you can go everywhere well that but hey you can go commit your crimes over here because it's 01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:26.920 - technically investigatory practice to not tell the public where we're going to be 01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:34.680 - so because theoretically then we could all move elsewhere and do our nefarious deeds so 01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:37.640 - one it would reveal 01:10:37.640 --> 01:10:44.040 - i don't know what the analogous term would be but like kind of police redlining 01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:50.100 - where they are purpose we all know that they are purposely policing certain districts and 01:10:50.100 --> 01:10:51.080 - communities 01:10:51.080 --> 01:11:01.000 - but there i i would be shocked if they revealed like anywhere near a schedule or borders or where 01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:07.640 - they dispatch their patrol officers to kind of just sit and wait to find someone because that 01:11:07.640 --> 01:11:14.760 - would be like saying hey we'll be here yeah don't do anything in front of us i don't know yeah so 01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:20.760 - that's what i i think that's a good effort an idea but there's no chance in hell they're ever going 01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:27.000 - to give that to us yeah well is there a way to like look into not outside of our city like find 01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:32.680 - out what other cities have done to like maybe prove create policy to prevent some of the i know 01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:41.320 - they're still kind of do whatever they want because they exist in those lines and spaces but is 01:11:41.320 --> 01:11:41.480 - there 01:11:41.480 --> 01:11:49.400 - like examples i think that we could lobby for and who knows the constitutionality of this but lobby 01:11:49.400 --> 01:11:56.600 - for equitable patrolling where it's like you have to have at least two officers patrolling every 01:11:56.600 --> 01:11:57.240 - zone 01:11:57.240 --> 01:12:05.080 - and that you know you can't have all of them in one zone so i'm sure that there's and then we'd 01:12:05.080 --> 01:12:14.200 - have to make up zones or look at what could be pre-pre-made blue lining that is the analogous 01:12:14.200 --> 01:12:27.640 - term so yeah i think that but because i guess when i think about it it's like we pivoted away from 01:12:27.640 --> 01:12:34.680 - defund as a concept because of how almost impossible that is um but then how do how do yeah how do 01:12:34.680 --> 01:12:34.840 - you 01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:42.520 - change how yeah yeah it didn't it didn't go well for yeah but it's how do you then pivot to then 01:12:43.080 --> 01:12:47.480 - well i think that's a great idea that i think we could all and then we go back to our mission 01:12:47.480 --> 01:12:54.600 - and we can research uh how our community views this so like i guess the language is perceptions 01:12:54.600 --> 01:13:01.880 - and i guess i assumed that our community that we all kind of have this perception that certain 01:13:01.880 --> 01:13:09.160 - communities are policed more or monitor i would say monitored more by law enforcement and so 01:13:09.160 --> 01:13:15.480 - we can conduct a survey or have try to to get out in our community does our community agree 01:13:15.480 --> 01:13:21.320 - because we're serving our community do they feel also that certain areas zones communities or 01:13:21.320 --> 01:13:27.080 - districts within bloomington are monitored or policed more frequently and so then we can move 01:13:27.080 --> 01:13:33.960 - down the line and research and discuss alternatives so like i just threw out shot from the hip the 01:13:33.960 --> 01:13:34.200 - zone 01:13:35.080 --> 01:13:43.160 - defense method i don't know and then we could ask we could send a subcommittee out to talk to 01:13:43.160 --> 01:13:53.080 - professionals to identify best practices uh someone who has some letters after their name 01:13:53.080 --> 01:14:00.680 - in the areas of i don't even know right of policing and then we could make a recommendation to our 01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:05.640 - legislators to say this is what we recommend so i think that's one good 01:14:05.640 --> 01:14:14.440 - task that we can move towards yeah i will say well one first good job 01:14:14.440 --> 01:14:22.760 - sticking to our charge to stick to our mission and two something that um we i've heard 01:14:22.760 --> 01:14:30.200 - of our commission is to more regularly report um to the city council so we could do that as 01:14:30.200 --> 01:14:36.520 - a small task form the analysis of that and a recommendation and then go and present that 01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:46.360 - to the city council yeah and i could start you know i think if we just as an example unless 01:14:46.360 --> 01:14:53.240 - anyone thinks of a better idea more than a half-baked off-the-cuff zone theory but we could 01:14:53.240 --> 01:14:59.880 - either identify ways that our community is already split up we could talk about school districts or 01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:05.640 - who knows because there are different areas of our community it's all mapped out different blocks 01:15:05.640 --> 01:15:14.840 - or we could make a new zoning that as step one recommend our legislatures hey let's have new 01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:21.400 - zones just for this specific policing purpose and here's how we would propose based on the experts 01:15:21.400 --> 01:15:26.120 - that it's an equitable distribution of people and communities 01:15:26.120 --> 01:15:40.680 - yeah okay what what does everybody else think about that idea just gauging the vibes yeah 01:15:40.680 --> 01:15:47.800 - because i think like thinking about things that i was hoping looking back on this rather than just 01:15:47.800 --> 01:15:53.880 - like validating that this was a good report is like forming next steps and i think that is 01:15:54.840 --> 01:15:59.800 - a good next step and not the only thing i agree but i'm wondering how we're going to get the 01:15:59.800 --> 01:16:05.000 - statistic about where the police are in a particular time well we're definitely not so i think we 01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:05.160 - just 01:16:05.160 --> 01:16:12.120 - barge past it and they can sit if if we propose something they are more than welcome to say 01:16:12.120 --> 01:16:16.760 - actually we have data showing that they're already doing that then by all means yeah share that 01:16:16.760 --> 01:16:17.080 - data 01:16:18.280 --> 01:16:25.880 - they can do that because if it's already happening then yeah we might have wasted time and it's new 01:16:25.880 --> 01:16:31.880 - but i'd be willing to make a gamble that it's not already happening and so i think we can safely 01:16:31.880 --> 01:16:32.120 - move 01:16:32.120 --> 01:16:44.680 - forward under the assumption that they're not putting officers lying in wait in every neighborhood 01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:54.760 - so do we would we um how do i say would we map about map out neighborhoods or something and 01:16:54.760 --> 01:16:59.640 - i think we start with you know ideas everyone can bring an idea for how 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:07.000 - what what the zones would look like and i might get a map and say well the school districts look 01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:13.720 - pretty good i don't know like that that's a why reinvent vent the wheel if we already have our 01:17:13.720 --> 01:17:26.760 - community all sliced up and then how do i say present it to someone at bpd and say are you 01:17:26.760 --> 01:17:32.920 - doing this or we think this is i don't even think we need to do that you know just make a plan 01:17:32.920 --> 01:17:40.600 - and then present it to our common council for proposed potential legislation that's their job 01:17:40.600 --> 01:17:46.360 - but just say you know here are some zones and then we just do a little simple math how many 01:17:46.360 --> 01:17:51.640 - officers do they have out in our community at any given time without a mission that are just kind 01:17:51.640 --> 01:17:58.760 - of patrolling and you take all those you divide them equally amongst the zones and then it's the 01:17:58.760 --> 01:18:06.760 - city council council's job to find out where what's going on at the moment not necessarily 01:18:06.760 --> 01:18:13.240 - i mean we could we could go even further and draft an ordinance but that's they're the legislatures 01:18:13.240 --> 01:18:20.120 - so we could just bring an idea we it could be anywhere from here's a recommendation that we 01:18:20.120 --> 01:18:27.000 - want you to take action in this area to someone sponsoring a bill or i don't know what the 01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:37.320 - nomenclature is but um proposed legislation yeah they do have zones right i mean there are already 01:18:37.320 --> 01:18:44.920 - police police zones right that oh yeah i'm sure of course are they like known to the public 01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:53.640 - i think so i mean they've been told to me and i've been told you know the same 01:18:54.280 --> 01:19:01.240 - it's it's the downtown zone that is heavily heavily it has more police than the others 01:19:01.240 --> 01:19:07.480 - yes which that's why that's why i exist so it would make sense why i see it but also but there 01:19:07.480 --> 01:19:13.880 - there is i just looked up there's a data set about police dispatch i just clicked on that yeah so 01:19:13.880 --> 01:19:19.880 - you know you might look at that i'm not sure what these data sets are not always user-friendly 01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:25.640 - and i think it's just a good jumping up because the anticipated responses we're going to put more 01:19:25.640 --> 01:19:31.560 - officers where there's more crime or more people i don't know yeah and then we it even divides into 01:19:31.560 --> 01:19:35.720 - like this the idea that i've always when i live in this town it's like how students are differently 01:19:35.720 --> 01:19:41.080 - released by even the two forces than the people who are committing the same crimes on the same 01:19:41.080 --> 01:19:47.400 - street as them who live here right they take it away with 70 000 with the destruction on the 01:19:47.400 --> 01:19:53.480 - first weekend of school but get caught homeless on kirkwood and you're thrown in the flower bed and 01:19:53.480 --> 01:19:59.640 - arrested for the fourth time but interesting anecdote there even the students themselves see 01:19:59.640 --> 01:20:04.760 - their rights changed significantly depending on if the alleged crime occurred on this side of third 01:20:04.760 --> 01:20:11.960 - street or this side of the street which doesn't make sense to me but whatever yeah so thinking 01:20:11.960 --> 01:20:17.240 - towards actionable items in the last minutes like i think this is really great so do we want to 01:20:17.240 --> 01:20:27.240 - form an item for our next agenda to follow up on this people i think an easy goal post 01:20:27.240 --> 01:20:39.640 - would be to invite fellow commission members to bring an idea for how they see 01:20:42.120 --> 01:20:50.760 - the equitable policing of our community either an idea for you know what's wrong with it that our 01:20:50.760 --> 01:21:04.440 - communities are not equitably monitored depending on different zones or i think an opinion an idea 01:21:04.440 --> 01:21:10.040 - related to that topic because there are so many different topics and i feel like our commission 01:21:10.040 --> 01:21:15.400 - members are all very passionate and we all like to bring different issues to the table 01:21:15.400 --> 01:21:21.960 - and if we want to reserve some time next time to kind of continue this discussion or invite 01:21:21.960 --> 01:21:22.360 - everyone 01:21:22.360 --> 01:21:29.160 - to take it one step further and bring an idea for for an action item for the next time for bringing 01:21:29.160 --> 01:21:35.240 - ideas yeah i think that's good 01:21:38.680 --> 01:21:44.920 - so discussion of equitable policing in our community as an agenda item and then we can 01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:50.600 - follow up on our research yeah and i think i mean specific i don't know how to state this but like 01:21:50.600 --> 01:22:00.600 - geographically equitable if that makes sense yeah yeah well and if there's any way that 01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:05.080 - i'm really about the internet and email and things like that but with like the things 01:22:05.080 --> 01:22:09.240 - that we're finding on the city websites with the actual numbers i also think that would be 01:22:09.240 --> 01:22:16.200 - another jumping point to continue that conversation about right the read what's 01:22:16.200 --> 01:22:22.280 - changed with resource officers and where where we are now and even it's like maybe downtown 01:22:22.280 --> 01:22:25.960 - could be placed by just resource officers or you know different things like that but 01:22:25.960 --> 01:22:32.200 - i would think of all kind of together and it's pretty easy to find to google search i found it 01:22:32.200 --> 01:22:39.160 - while we the both both things that we were looking at the calls and the police zones on our 01:22:39.160 --> 01:22:50.200 - city database that being said getting it into a document yeah um that's not just much of scary 01:22:50.200 --> 01:22:59.800 - code and i would if anyone listening or participating today wants to add it to our 01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:05.320 - drive for exam actually no we can't add it to our drive because we're not editors um or send it out 01:23:05.320 --> 01:23:14.120 - in an email to like there is an export button i tried to do that it didn't work so user error 01:23:14.120 --> 01:23:20.200 - most likely so if anyone knows how to do that it would be great it it took 30 seconds i'm sure i 01:23:20.200 --> 01:23:24.440 - just checked chose the wrong thing but if anyone wants to try and do that and send it out to the 01:23:24.440 --> 01:23:29.240 - group so we can look have something to look at or discuss next time that's helpful i looked at 01:23:29.240 --> 01:23:29.400 - stuff 01:23:29.400 --> 01:23:33.400 - on my phone more often than a computer so it's definitely not going to work on your phone yeah 01:23:33.400 --> 01:23:37.160 - that's why i feel like if someone can email it then i can sit down with computer if you're 01:23:37.160 --> 01:23:38.120 - confident 01:23:38.120 --> 01:23:45.080 - so yeah hence me saying i'm bad at the internet i would appreciate if anyone is capable of putting 01:23:45.080 --> 01:23:50.440 - those things into a a follow-up or an email just like hey here's all those things we were 01:23:50.440 --> 01:23:51.400 - attempting 01:23:51.400 --> 01:24:02.680 - to look at do we want to leave that organic or do we want to petition volunteers or all do all work 01:24:02.680 --> 01:24:12.920 - on that you get a computer stuff a little bit i would try exporting it as an excel i tried to 01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:23.080 - do csv which usually works yes csv is awesome that did not work for me thank you so much 01:24:23.080 --> 01:24:31.650 - because i do use one but i don't actively choose to sit at whenever good for you that was a 01:24:31.650 --> 01:24:32.120 - lifestyle 01:24:32.120 --> 01:24:39.800 - choice i made and yeah being in it i i applaud you i live free i don't know if it's free i'm poor 01:24:39.800 --> 01:24:47.480 - so i should have gotten a good experience but any other suggestions for the future agenda before 01:24:47.480 --> 01:24:54.360 - we adjourn all right we have our i think that's a major action item and we'll follow up on it next 01:24:54.360 --> 01:25:12.040 - then okay thank you we have to motion to adjourn motion to adjourn seconded and we are adjourned 01:25:42.040 --> 01:25:44.960 - 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