we're gonna go ahead and call this meeting to order so we'll start the
 meeting with a roll call and make note of any any members that show up after
 the roll call here so we do roll call by voice so just making sure that
 everybody gets to start speaking so I'll just go through Kamila Brown Sparks
 gimme absent so far Robert here Aaron Jason here
 cushion absent Brigitte absent kale here yeah and vacant okay not here as
 expected Sharon here and now we can move to our first item approval of agenda and
 approval of memorandum or minutes does anybody have an amendment they would
 like to make to the agenda do I think from our wonderful liaisons in new
 business I think we need to put in a proposal to officially cancel the usual
 meeting that was supposed to be on the 19th of this month because we're doing
 it today the last time we gathered we didn't have a quorum but a member
 suggested not meeting on the 19th because of vacation schedules so the
 meeting then was scheduled for today as a result but the meeting on the 19th has
 been noticed and it's showing on the calendar so at some point during this
 meeting I think it would be appropriate for the committee to vote to cancel it
 well yeah I've made motion to add that so do you have to do a voice vote do you
 know to amend the agenda? Yeah I would go I would vote on that.
 Kale? Adding the agenda item to cancel the meeting. Robert? Aye. Jason? Aye. Aaron? Aye.
 Do we want to do that now? I mean we probably move through the reports and
 stuff I mean let's just kind of keep going with the agenda keep it moving. All right so now
 well so now we move to approval any other amendments to the agenda okay and
 then approval of minutes from last time does anybody want a chance to look at
 them? I'm gonna recuse myself. Anyone else? We can take a vote to approve them yeah you said you
 recused yourself so you okay um kale okay yeah Robert Jason yes Sharon okay so those uh minutes
 are approved and if you notice anything after this we can always go back and make a motion to make
 an
 amendment uh so reports co-chairs um uh Robert do you want do you have anything to add? I don't
 have anything to report uh except for what we're gonna go into with the old old business so that's
 it. I went to the commission on Hispanic and Latin American affairs and they um they have they're
 very concerned about um um immigrate about ICE coming here and they just talked about how a lot of
 immigrants legal or illegally here are are um are scared they don't want to
 some people don't want to even go out um and definitely don't leave the country they're
 afraid they can't come back even if they have citizenship and they um they have done something
 called upstander training and it's it's sponsored i'm trying to find the card they gave me it's
 sponsored by an organization called alert no have you heard of that alert yeah so um
 they have those trainings alert has those those trainings regularly and if we want to we can
 we can go to one yeah that's a good suggestion uh i i i used to have been in bloomington they've um
 you know that a couple weeks ago they were here and i don't i don't know if they uh grabbed anyone
 okay so you're up on this i work in bars so i work a lot with uh late night uh food and
 stuff and i the main question we get often is like what's your plan for when ice comes like
 where do we go how do we get out of here um how do you keep us safe and stuff like that so it's
 been a lot of interesting uh interesting conversations so i i have a lot to say on
 that too so if that means that's something we add to the the agenda then that's the movie i
 think is very valuable and i appreciate you bringing it up oh man uh so i want to move back
 and give a co-chair report and then an individual report which will tie in with what sharing just
 reported um in terms of co-chair um i want to circle back to what uh we've been saying
 in email about the importance of um attendance as we have noted for last the last meeting um we
 weren't able to conduct business because we didn't have quorum and that had been an issue when we
 had
 more seats available um and now that's been limited but um i think it's important to plan ahead uh
 as
 much as possible and communicate ahead as much as possible and i say that it's somebody who didn't
 respond in the email thread to to um say that i was going to be here today um but i just wanted
 to stress that um in my role as a co-chair as far as individual reports i attended uh the picnic
 for
 monreal county uh democrats um and they talked about specifically about ice um and how so far
 we've been uh the community has been pretty reactive you know alerting people when ice shows up
 or when ice um and or too close to when they're arriving um and they multiple people at that picnic
 expressed the desire to um build networks so that we're ready ahead of time that we're looking
 for it ahead of time and i think that upstander training is certainly one way to do that um i
 also wanted to say that um while i was there so uh the monreal county democratic party used to have
 a latino caucus which is separate from the commission and that had gone defunct um but
 my partner who is latinx um had started to make plans to resurrect that um so i know we've been
 talking about doing outreach to commissions but we can extend to all uh different uh segments in
 the community doing the work that we're tasked with doing um so there's uh we're not sometimes
 it might feel like we're the only ones and we have to tackle things which i know we talked about
 like
 if there's this threat why not address it but we don't have to only be the ones addressing it and
 we're not the only ones so just wanted to note that um other individual reports
 since we're still pausing on committees i think that we're
 we can skip that and now we can move on to the staff yes so do you guys have anything
 you wanted to report out on visa i feel like i surprised you in the class
 no i i just have nothing to report i've already talked about the cancellation of the meeting
 christine no i have nothing to add
 now we can move to public comment um and we don't have anybody in the chat okay um anybody in the
 public uh in attendance uh that would like to make a comment now is the time sure yeah i'll be very
 brief uh my name is julius i'm uh working with the office of the mayor i'm the new legislative
 affairs specialist uh i just wanted to come in and say hi i'm learning a lot about like
 the awards and commissions here at the city uh like some of the major stuff back to the mayor
 so i just wanted to introduce myself because you might be seeing me down the line but yeah that's
 all hello that's fine i guess not so much more so just like the big ideas that you guys are talking
 about i can put a little bit about the like concerns about the hispanic national affairs
 commission and stuff like that little clip notes yeah public kidnappings what's asterisks
 so a nerd and a policy wonk you're welcome here
 so i'm is about people not smooth i think you all know me i'm on the city council
 i wanted to report that um i'm taking part in a training cohort through the organization called
 local progress which is an organization of progressive local leaders from municipalities
 and school districts across the country and they have a training program specifically for
 people who want to develop a community responder program as an alternative to police response in
 cases of emergency and so i jumped at that because that's near and dear to my heart and one of the
 motivations for creating this commission was to look into that kind of program as
 you'll be reviewing in the report from 2023 so we had our kickoff meeting in pittsburgh about
 three weeks ago and it was very interesting we heard from people in minneapolis where
 even before the george floyd murder they had started a community responder program and
 and they've gone kind of back and forth as far as reactionary to george floyd's murder and then
 reactionary back to no we have to have lots of police and but they have they've been able to
 implement a system that we could look at and then chicago was the other group that was presenting
 where they have actually city-run mental health agencies that had been shut down but they're
 gradually reopening them and and doing an outreach program to go along with them in
 certain parts of the city certain police districts in the city and that has had some success as
 well
 and then we also since we were in alligator county pennsylvania we visited their
 9-1-1 dispatch they do have an alternative to sending police that i don't think is the
 best model because it goes through the police the police get to decide whether or not to send an
 alternative team but it was interesting so i just wanted to report on that and it's going to be
 followed by three zoom meetings and another in-person meeting in july so i'll be happy to
 report back to you on that and um i i have some ideas as if you're revisiting your report from
 2023 today um so i don't know if i might be able to speak to that later in your meeting or
 just reach out to uh the chairs or whatever but
 can you repeat the name of the group again local progress they're at localprogress.org if anybody
 wants to check them out
 nice okay cool um well thank you as well as always and do keep us in the loop um and then
 when it makes sense we'll tap you uh for your uh insights about the report
 do you want to move to the item that had been added yeah i don't think that we have any other
 other business yeah awesome uh so yeah i'll put motion to vote to cancel the meeting on the 19th
 all right i'll second that motion
 assuming that's still a voice vote so uh yes uh kip yes robert yes jason yes erin yes and sharon
 yes that's officially cancelled thank you for your participation
 all right um and now we move to reviewing the report
 um how do we want to go about this would we like to
 you realize i didn't switch my glasses um i was wondering why i was having trouble seeing it um
 yeah
 i mean yeah i was not sure how you would want to move forward with this i think i was just trying
 to encourage folks to actually read it and try and take some notes on it if possible that we had by
 way of not getting a quorum you know an extra extension so um i made a couple of notes but
 i would love to hear just if anybody else had anything official or just
 trying to keep it kind of loose and informal unless we were having trouble getting people
 weighing in on it so that was kind of my yeah um you know i think i think the main summary for me
 is that i know that um ultimately there were some key recommendations and um that's definitely
 where
 i was hoping we'd ultimately focus on um and where you know isabel might be able to weigh in and
 and other folks as well um so i think i'll let other people have bits of the floor to see if
 they've got any input or questions uh or having need of clarification for anything
 we could either call on everybody uh go around for hot takes like brown robin yeah yeah
 um i mean uh i thought i found it uh helpful like you know lots of uh the studies and things that
 were brought in were very direct and also provided um really nice insight towards i did think um
 there was some language things that i disagreed with that removed some of the power of those
 results like perceptions and like instead of it being direct the then takes were then received
 as perceived things which um was my main takeaway but i i thought uh like at the last meeting i
 guess there was the phrase um finding the roots of crime versus alternatives to policing and i
 feel like that's the direction that was taken in this where when given the results that were very
 much like here's some other programs or other things that have worked and then i was still
 focusing more on the crime aspect and housing and other things so i i felt like maybe it didn't
 hit on what i what i thought that the research was going for but i was hopeful to see more
 solution based on the policing side versus the the policed who is police side and how to fix
 their problems versus finding better solutions in the structures that we can control within the
 city
 but that was my only big takeaway that i i found
 thank you kyle it's helpful so for me i mean i think we're getting into some other details after
 the round robin with some of the key recommendations i'd like to return to that but there was a
 part of
 the report where it talked about evaluating and selecting and i didn't quite see where like the
 report said that we did that but i didn't quite see it covered in the report and i missed that
 somewhere evaluating selecting yeah i don't have the page reference at the in an immediate at hand
 yeah step so basically where we were talking about the eight steps in the design centered
 entrepreneurship process so this is well i think i'll try and refer to the packet since we've got
 that since we've got that here that is going to put us on
 yeah i guess this is as far as our packet here page 11 mentioned you know this report documents
 up to and including step five and i did i felt like i was missing that that's just so it's really
 just more an observation but um i'll be eager to kind of move with that and figuring out how
 we can move on to these other steps in light of the report yeah yeah
 yep i mean everything else is just me
 summarizing what it was in the report as far as my notes so that's all again thank you
 so i feel a little bit of pressure because i'm the only one in the room who worked on the report
 but looking back at it i'm remembering some of the things some of the decisions we made
 hearing some of the things that you're saying help me to understand what was clear to me as part of
 participant in the research but maybe not not be clear to somebody reading the report freshly
 also some of it takes into account the history of this commission and some of the pushback we've
 gotten and some of the ways we've adjusted our approach regarding the report specifically
 i returned to some of the documents that go with it clarifying the the question the frequently
 asked
 questions that clarified some misunderstandings but i will say that from some of the research that
 we've gotten and i want to honor your critique and i think that it definitely should be considered
 but one of the reasons we went to the root cause analysis is an attempt to try to appeal to
 different
 people which is definitely doesn't seem to put an onus on on changing the structures so i think
 that's something that we i would agree with that i think we should keep in mind as we review the
 report and how we want to take some of the findings in it and make them more actionable
 to make changes now that's all for now i just want to clarify before i fully open my mouth
 what are we doing are we like in feelings corner are we sharing our feelings about the report
 and then if so to what end like to make a an action plan to edit the report i thought it was
 a jump off point that's the way i perceive what was assigned after the last meeting was kind of
 like after reading the point what can we use this ground work for to continue this commission into
 the work we're heading towards okay thank you then i would then kind of re-emphasize what
 jennifer crossley had been kind of repeatedly bringing up in the meetings that she attended
 previously and always in any action that we take or any of our time spent here both in a meeting or
 outside the commission to always remember our mission and to make sure that we are devoting
 our time efficiently and wisely to meet the the ends of our mission and so then i would direct
 everyone back to the governing statute and i think that the 2023 report checks every one of the
 four first boxes in the governing statute it uh gathers data on perceptions and preferences
 it researches evidence-based alternatives to traditional policing it identifies best practices
 and it makes recommendations and so at this juncture i would pose a question to my fellow
 commission members um whether or not we want to you know what what do we want to do with that
 because we've accomplished we've accomplished a goal so to speak in 2023 so do we want to expand
 on that do we want to pick some areas and update the research and make new recommendations or do
 we want to kind of table the report and put the brain trust together and think of entirely new
 areas that we could then do the four mission markers you know gather data research alternatives
 because i i think there's a lot of work to do in our community and i have faith in our commission
 and other governing bodies to do that and i think we got to use our time super wisely so i
 to boil that down to distill it i acknowledge i appreciate and i accept the findings in the
 2023 report and i would encourage my fellow commission members to you know familiarize that
 yourselves with that in your own time and then come with an idea i don't have an idea today
 but that is my two cents for how to move forward thank you
 sharon well actually this segue from erin's comments i'm thinking about
 the comparison of what's going on now in in bloomington as compared to two years ago
 has crime stayed high is higher i think the report said that it went it had gone up from 2019 right
 in the beginning um until 2023 so what's happened since then and the social workers and um unarmed
 officers in the bpd have they helped um let me see yeah so and i made a note about brooklyn
 something from brooklyn i don't i don't remember what it referred to but
 yeah maybe we can actually find out about just move it forward and find out if these
 changes that were instituted have brought crime down and if they feel like this has been
 successful if the bpg feels like it's been successful the the officers the and officers
 and social workers themselves feel like they're doing something they're being successful in their
 job maybe we that's a way to sort of continue this report or bring it to the next step
 if i may bounce on that because i think that's a really good idea for a next step that we could
 take
 is just at a bare minimum the first thing we do is look at numbers and what has changed
 since the report was uh initially finalized and dispersed um and i don't and it when you were
 speaking at raised what like what does it even mean to say crime has gone up or down does that
 mean we have a larger militarized police that are arresting more people does that really mean
 that more crime is occurring or so i i would love to look at an intersectional layout of numbers if
 we can and that's step one on our mission and our governing statute is gather data and perceptions
 and so you know at a bare minimum i don't know if our county is even collecting the data that would
 be really helpful so if we have any like graduate students like that have a bunch of expertise and
 time on their hands i don't know but to just look at number of arrests this year compared to 2023
 and even more you know where the arrests occurred what kind of officer what were they responding to
 were they even responding or were they already policing that area so i think that looking at
 data and if we have that in front of us to look at what has changed since 2023 i think our mission
 will then it will reveal itself organically the question i bring down too is like what's changed
 since has any like even with the the conversation about resource officers and non it's like
 have they actually been used or police still responding to those calls or yeah it's like is
 the because they are still coming through the police and the police are always the first even
 when requested a police officer still is the first one there so yeah those questions popped
 up throughout being like what's changed and how so when someone calls 911 automatically
 an armed officer will go or sometimes that's been their personal experience at night time so i'm
 mostly a night time person but i've most of the times that i've had to call which i
 are rules to never call um it's always been the case where i've requested and i've been sent
 someone else first but that could be a small microcosm of my world but then also i feel like
 that might be something that you could find out through this information or on a larger scale
 like who is responding is are these resource officers being utilized appropriately are they
 being given the power to respond first are they and no one's collecting those numbers yes so one
 thing that we can't that we do have in our hand we can ask we can obtain policy documents so i
 think our three we have three law enforcement agencies in bloomington uh iupd bpd and sheriff's
 office state police are out here more right but i i'm just saying for our jurisdiction of course
 we have like ellisville and state ease and all of them um police state right uh but i think that we
 can add if if we want to add an action item for next week we can take volunteers to identify where
 we can find out some information and then and to bring that next time to say hey i've figured out
 that this tracks this metric um and then also we could take volunteers to call i i'm happy to call
 our law enforcement agencies to just see their policies on who they send and to what report
 or are they just driving around waiting for someone to flag them down
 yeah i'd be intrigued to see what kind of information you could get out of that so aaron is that is
 all
 that documented if a call comes in and someone goes out to this to the site um is that all that
 documented who who goes and in theory there is a document there's a paper trail every time a call
 comes in starting with 911 a cad report is initiated and that can either just go right
 from the computer from the printer to the shredder um or it can be given to a person and then that
 can be sent to whoever's um i'm having pregnancy brain but whoever sends the people out
 there's dispatch yeah a dispatcher sends um someone out and that adds there's an automatic record
 whether or not the responding officer or anyone actually types the way they're supposed to and
 fill in a police report there is a record of a call coming in and someone being dispatched
 i don't i don't practice a lot of civil law so i don't know about a FOIA request
 if that would if we would be even allowed to say hey can i have all of your
 cad reports it probably costs money too i don't know um but
 yeah because i know that we can request individual ones we could go to the
 um courthouse and say it's public information i would like this police report from and you have
 to pay for them to print it but um i'm sure we could perhaps bypass that with a freedom of
 information act request but don't quote me that is not my area of expertise um so we would want to
 talk to something like that i think i think the budget is really for books and materials
 i'd have to look at the specific line item
 but do you know are you referring to making this request with the bloomington police department
 yeah do you know do they do they have a policy in place where they charge for copies directly
 from them you get it from the county clerk and they charge to print okay so i don't know i mean
 as a technical matter under uh the access to public records act
 you can be charged for a request if the governing body has adopted
 um a policy with a fee schedule and so forth so if they've done that yeah then i'm sure that they
 have there's a fee schedule okay and i think the only way we could get around that is to subpoena
 the records and i don't think we have so it would probably be quite expensive to obtain all those
 and so it may be worth looking in and that would only tell us so much that could tell us
 how many calls came in and what time of year and if they dispatch that it it would be a very black
 and white but it still would so so first of all the um there are public portals of data
 from the city of bloomington and i think you can get some basic data there how many calls went in
 how they were coded things like that um there's there are also reports that go
 monthly to the board of public safety that are on their website that you could look at
 for further details and i i i'm pretty sure that the uh the public information isn't going to give
 you the level of detail that's really very helpful um the uh
 i myself and some colleagues uh convinced the mayor to put ten thousand dollars in the budget
 for this um this year 2025 to hire an outside consultant to look at our 911 calls um to see
 which might be addressed by a community responder program versus by police and there's um an
 organization uh called law enforcement action partnership that actually i think jason you were
 on the call and cammy was on the call last year when we talked to them um they sound very um
 business as usual policing but they are actually a reform non-profit um and they analyze 911 calls
 and help set up community responder programs so um i our central dispatch right now has gone
 through some human resources challenges but i'm i'm still hopeful by the end of the year that we
 can get this study of the data done so i i don't i i think it would be good to at least you know
 let's be optimistic and hope this will get done uh sometime soon um and that you won't have to
 resort to the kind of you know uh efforts that would take a lot of your time and
 be a lot of work and you're not you're all not professionals at this kind of thing so it would
 be great if we had this group or a similar group analyze those calls so that would tell us
 something
 about the calls coming in would it tell us about who goes out to respond yes if that i assume that
 information is collected so yes that would give us that information i'm looking at the calls for
 service city of blueington open data and it looks like we get the case number time month weekday
 nature district agency and report that all being said someone with much greater tech expertise than
 me is going to need to right and what they usually find what we've been talking to leave last
 summer
 they said you know the most CAD systems have a nature of the call that is not descriptive
 right it doesn't really tell you what really happened so they actually dive into the notes
 attached to each call and goes through to to further categorize the calls so um i mean it
 is a major undertaking but i think it is something that needs to be done and it looks like it was
 just
 last updated yesterday so i'm encouraged oh i think i got it with that um project that you're
 hopeful to go forward is i know you said that the HR stuff is there a timeline is it like within
 the
 year or is it it was budgeted for this year okay that's why i wanted i was like because i mean
 we're only here for you know so i want to make sure it was maybe it would be within our time so
 we could utilize it properly but hopefully it'll yeah optimism is on your side i will keep asking
 um i'm also wondering do you remember when the unarmed officers and social workers started
 working with the social workers started what 2019
 i think it was before
 the summer of reckoning 2020 um but maybe it wasn't maybe that was their answer to it
 and of course um a lot of people objected to the social workers being under the police yeah which
 is problematic um so maybe it wasn't 2020 2019 or 2020 and they they've actually um had a national
 conference of these social workers and Bloomington has become an example
 they're very proud of their social work
 so is there some way that we can talk to someone who's done this and sort of get their
 you mean the social workers yeah we could definitely reach out mark fabrics is somebody who's been
 involved for a while he's somewhat responsive so if we wanted to do the outreach that we've been
 planning on um connecting i guess gathering data maybe a couple of the others um then we could
 reach out to them um i think what isabel suggested is very important like somebody who is
 specialized
 in this um it might be better to pay them because the other thing i was thinking about as this
 thread
 was going on um is the start program which we've met which i've mentioned um we could get people
 in iu that are um students who are working on who have advisors um who know about qualitative data
 analysis um if we wanted specific some specific element of those police reports um we could get
 that um so that's that's what that was i just found found it in the 2025 public safety report
 so the social worker started 2019 and then the community service specialist began in 2020
 i know ultimately in the report there were like three recommendations that were
 and i know when i was reading over the report it just seemed like that was kind of our
 jumping off point i don't know how much that changes in light of us trying to get updated numbers
 but i didn't know if we wanted to look at that a little bit more closely
 that was you know the uh basically a feasibility study for the department of community safety and
 resilience a city-wide incorporation of public safety indicators
 so this starts on page 37 of the report what does that put us in the packet
 i want to say that's page 11 of the overall packet no that's not it
 um
 jump let's pass that
 oh yeah this would be
 page 34 of the packet i want to say it starts off with that
 but then where it really starts listing them on is page 39 of the little packet if you want to jump
 to there no you don't have page things yeah so the yeah so
 so there um it sounds this sounds like a pretty concrete um recommendation which i don't know if
 you'd be able to lend uh history to but i mean part of there i was doing an independent study
 to assess that my interpretation of this and i could be wrong is that i feel like this dovetails
 really nicely into some of the other stuff that we've talked about in the beginning with like you
 know um uh you know looking at looking at dispatch and you know how to connect to dispatch with
 other
 other services besides you know police uh police fire um so places like a stride center and things
 like that um this seems like our most concrete jumping off point but this feasibility study
 does talk about you know a qualified firm to look at that i i don't know what that looks like for
 us
 i don't know if you could lend like historical perspective on that yeah so the feasibility
 study is something that we we had to clarify because key recommendation number one also talks
 about the department of community safety and resilience which we uh kind of established as
 doing the work that other communities in our research have done and as public comment spoke
 to people did were resistant to the idea of social workers being being embedded in the police from
 my
 own research in the denver star program they started with being embedded in the police and
 overseen by the police to becoming a separate entity and so others other cities that we looked
 at there was separation too but the feasibility study is was more important to us and we clarified
 that in the frequently asked questions is that we're not experts we synthesized the data that
 we gathered and suggested that it would be nice for us to have something separated so the feasibility
 study is is something that we were really pushing for and it had some support from council members
 when our report was finished and that was to see like what improvements could be made
 hopefully that clarifies a little bit yeah other follow-up well i mean
 i think for me i'm just trying to figure out how how we how we move forward in a measurable
 way to get that started right but then we've also got the other recommendations
 which i feel like when i first started and i was like drinking from the fire hose there was
 mentioned
 of the public key or key safety indicators that we have kpis kpis yeah um so
 i'm unclear where we are with that and moving that forward yeah um so unfortunately um
 uh ex-commissioner routsong and commissioner brown sparks met with the mayor to discuss that
 and i think updated the key performance indicators the rationale behind that was a better way of
 measuring um in a quantitative way whether safety is being met um and uh if it's if those key
 performance indicators indicated that it wasn't being met then that would trigger looking at
 the entities that are in charge of uh addressing that so the police being a major one but then also
 the state the social workers um and the fire department other other departments that have
 taken on um the needs of addressing things like mental health that we don't have um a specific
 like mental health assessment body doing so so when we updated the mayor did we get any feedback
 from that office of what now that means what's the next steps for that right um we did um but
 cami would be the only one able to speak to that that is currently on the commission
 oh yeah she was in the meeting um and we didn't form an official
 report um i think between that meeting and the intent to talk about that commissioner
 routsong resigned from the commission um due to life circumstances okay so maybe if we want to
 get down if we want to start looking at like potential action items for the next time trying
 get cam commission sparks to to uh either send an email or maybe report at the next meeting
 yeah sounds that i want to be aware of of her time and her
 we can do that we could also do outreach to community member uh nashla routsong um
 and uh see if they'd be willing to share their notes okay
 all right and then the promote inclusion and awareness felt like the most
 maybe i need to reread it the most vague to me so i don't even know what we could
 like what page is that number three yeah page 43 in the packet yeah
 i kind of i've kind of interpreted this as dependent on the first two but i don't know
 yeah t are part of yeah
 so
 i mean for me i'm just trying to figure out how to move these recommendations forward
 in a in a measurable way yeah and i am just me
 yeah i think that's a good question to call
 i wanted to uh suggest something for you to consider um so we were uh at the pittsburgh um
 training um i think it was in chicago they did a community survey to support um a a mental health
 crisis response team in the parts of chicago where they where they were considering it where
 there was a mental health center that they could use as a base um and that really helped uh get
 convinced the city government to to fund such a thing so um i was making maybe a survey here in
 bloomington could also prompt the mayor and the county government to more seriously consider a
 community response program and i did talk to lisa laner about funding such a thing and she thought
 that your budget could be used for that purpose if you so choose to do it so that some professional
 organization somebody with expertise in surveys could could develop such a thing so i'll throw
 that out as because it it does fall under this goal of promoting inclusion and awareness you know
 but ask ask people what they what they want how they think that um public safety can be improved
 using uh kind of non-traditional um entities and and who would take the survey or who would it be
 distributed to well i think it would it would have to go through a random cross-section of
 people in bloomington and a survey company or the iu center for survey research would be an option
 oh i would be in charge of you know getting a big cross-section so not specifically to um
 how i felt mental health professionals i mean i think you could you could decide that amongst
 yourselves i i need to follow up with the city council member from chicago and see i could i
 could ask who did their survey like they send it to um my impression was it was a general survey
 that anybody could fill out i also want to get a copy of it yeah
 so is he leaving for leaving for the meeting or is he coming back later he's coming back
 okay he needs to move his vehicle i believe that's fine yeah yeah
 do we have to wait for him technically i don't
 do we have to wait for him technically technically if we are doing this meeting
 i guess we're less than quorum yeah
 it's never going to understand what i say
 never mind
 okay um on that survey i feel like i've taken a couple surveys recently through the city
 that have been powered by something but about like parking and then about hearts and about this i
 feel like is there that capability within the city that can be outsourced for a survey
 like chas chas has sent me the last three and i've filled them all out but she's in the
 i think the external consultants the city hires does those okay cool that's all i was like i was
 sure are we allowed to jump off of things from earlier of maybe like the recommendations for next
 agenda things like how does that work yeah i guess i want to follow up on the earlier statement
 about
 ice and our police's involvement and our city's involvement with ice um i know i've had
 conversations
 with people and um with city officials and i've been sent emails about the city's stance on that
 and fear of funding and federal government stuff and state government stuff but i i guess i would
 because that is kind of in our purview wonder how what policies exist for our police that they
 when when another uh agency comes in whether it be state or because we've had issues with state
 police overstepping we're not overstepping with their balance but pointing snipers you know stuff
 stuff like that like how what's what's our actual bloomington um policy on when a federal thing or
 when ice comes or how how do how do they interact or react i was told by the mayor one thing during
 a meeting but that has since not been true so i i guess i'm intrigued to know where to find that
 information and how to then because if we're supposed to build these networks to support
 our neighbors and make them feel like we have their backs or we're going to alert people or
 we're going to help them through this maybe knowing how the bloomington police department
 engages and also a direct understanding of how the mayor and the city will also engage with those
 or engage or not engage with ice when they come and also i guess the jail you know county so
 lots of lots of uh i know the detainees were taken to kentucky i believe um so we did not hold them
 but i know we have done ice holds before um but i'm just intrigued on policy there and how that
 can tie into whatever mission we're jumping in towards towards alternative policing and
 understanding
 exactly what kind of policing is happening when outside police or agents or federal things come in
 i i would think that it would be in the municipal code i'm just telling you i've never looked at
 the
 internet so that's why i say i say words and then yeah someone can break it down and tell it to me
 and then if your city websites are not my friend and from listening to that one i agree um that
 that's something that's important um and um i'm internally remembering um that what our call is
 right because i think it's important we can look into it and i think in the past we've tried to
 form our own response but i think what's important is to clarify that and communicate that that's
 one
 thing um because if it's hard for us to find right then people who are not as engaged um
 might pay attention to any outlet with any information so coming from us i think that's
 that is important yeah and then potentially making recommendations at the end of your
 ways to policy to exist or clarifying things to make that easier for people to digest and
 understand
 exactly who's going to serve or protect them yeah absolutely and how
 yeah you all know that the sheriff is being sued by the attorney general in dm because he won't do
 ice homes oh there was that report released where we were the one city the one city in indiana but
 it's also like yeah if we're gonna we're gonna be that then let's let's be it you know have some
 teeth about it that's why my recommendations will all be back in our sheriff's office
 you do not in our prosecutor's office yeah i don't have zero faith in prosecutor's office but
 i think there are some lines
 i guess yeah i just the goals that i i think the report was the the research was very informative
 and i was appreciative of the different outlets that were brought into it and i did thoroughly
 i was like oh great you know like these are the things that i was hopeful would be in there
 i was just hopeful that is a commission now we can actually take it and be like here's the things
 that we would recommend that would be concrete and here's things that we can be like we did all
 this
 research we gathered all this if we're going to be asking the mayor or the city council to listen
 to
 us or particularly take our advice or recommendations maybe we by the end of next year before the
 budget
 we have like or before the next we have some real concrete policy suggestions or recommendations
 behind the research that we find post that report and what can what can happen because i know there
 was a conversation about translators within the police department and hoping for translation
 technology but then they're not being budgeted there but then 11 more police officers and everyone
 get in a 16 000 dollar raise per head you know maybe they have to learn spanish to get a raise
 i don't know stuff like that but like there's got to be things tangibly that we can actually
 that would help keep our latinx community at least somewhat safer because then at least they're
 understood when they're being policed or helped
 so does anybody know if it's a legal obligation for our sheriff to do ice holes or to arrest
 people that they don't have to kidnap anyone without a court order
 like if the if a court has ordered them to carry out they need everyone all of us needs to comply
 with what our judicial leaders on high say in a valid order but without a valid judicial order
 and without proper protocols we're just sending thugs out to kidnap people and they don't have
 to do that in fact some would argue that they shouldn't do that and there hasn't been any court
 order i
 don't think there's been any proof of any of them being court ordered no across the country it
 would
 have to be identification they'd have to identify a person and i don't know some right then we're
 getting into a habeas corpus issue like there has to be a legal justification to to detain someone
 to assign warrant by a judge yeah identifying officers that would be my interpretation of it
 right yeah there are a variety of different ways that a law enforcement officer can detain someone
 off the street if they committed a felony right in front of them for example they're allowed to
 detain that person pending charges if a neutral and detached magistrate or judicial officer has
 found that there is probable cause to detain someone suspected of a crime then they can also
 go and get that person but it gets a little more complicated when we have just gone beyond the law
 but going to an apartment complex or a bar and suspecting someone of not having documents is not
 i would encourage all of my fellow citizens to for civil disobedience and not comply unless they
 are
 shown a copy of a valid warrant with that person's name on it saying i'm you know this is signed by
 a
 judge and they have a right to come get if there's no valid warrant again they're just kidnapping
 people so disrupt yeah disrupt them delay yeah disrupt you don't have to move your body you don't
 have to help them complete their mission they are allowed to lie to you though they are allowed to
 say that if you don't do this i'm going to do that do x y and z or you have to do x y and z
 that's what makes it complicated so i tell all my clients never take legal advice from cops
 because they're going to tell you a lot of stuff and most of it is not true
 that reminds me of another thing do you know about the red cards yeah that's that's exodus
 right yeah yeah yeah um and there's efforts to distribute spanish this in spanish because
 this is in english and i believe exodus is a nonprofit that has uh lots of those and are able
 and are willing to bring them to wherever you need them or to anyone from what i just said at the
 non-profit meeting with the mayor that was their goal was to get as many of those red cards out
 as possible and also they have them in spanish yeah so exodus is a non-profit working for immigrant
 safety
 informing people because this is nice that we're all informed i'm very thankful erin for you being
 here and being able to speak to that uh but then like sharing this recording now with other people
 or you know spreading those documents that that's part of the infrastructure right this doesn't
 count as official formal legal advice especially if it leaves this jurisdiction and you haven't
 hired me to represent you these are my personal opinions
 okay question
 if you're making a to-do list um another way that this report could be helpful is if you would
 update um the progress of other communities um you have some great case studies but it's been
 you know two or three years since you talked with them and there are other um cities that
 are not mentioned in the report that are that are that have developed community responder programs
 like albuquerque minneapolis austin um so if you have the bandwidth um some updates
 from other communities and what some best practices uh might be would be helpful
 um
 that's how i learn about a lot of these things safer cities.org they send a newsletter
 they're all about community responder global crisis
 response programs
 i guess one of the other things that i'm i'm interested in maybe it's a broader thing
 but um looking into like the like passive more passive policing and um jurisdiction for
 pullovers jurisdiction for how because you would mention like were they already patrolling the
 area earlier and i do feel like our city is hard patrol um there i've seen more cops than i see
 other cars and i walk three blocks to work every day unless of course you drive through sterling
 woods
 yeah yeah it's amazing how there's just no cops there's none there yeah well i must live downtown
 uh yeah yeah well behind their closed doors uh and yeah that's the one thing i i think uh down
 there's got to be i know some cities have i've read a little bit about it so maybe i would
 do that deeper research to figure out how that works or and i especially since you're in law
 knowing
 well i anticipate you're gonna have a lot of roadblocks there because they're not going to
 tell us where they police because that's essentially telling the community hey that
 you can go everywhere well that but hey you can go commit your crimes over here because it's
 technically investigatory practice to not tell the public where we're going to be
 so because theoretically then we could all move elsewhere and do our nefarious deeds so
 one it would reveal
 i don't know what the analogous term would be but like kind of police redlining
 where they are purpose we all know that they are purposely policing certain districts and
 communities
 but there i i would be shocked if they revealed like anywhere near a schedule or borders or where
 they dispatch their patrol officers to kind of just sit and wait to find someone because that
 would be like saying hey we'll be here yeah don't do anything in front of us i don't know yeah so
 that's what i i think that's a good effort an idea but there's no chance in hell they're ever going
 to give that to us yeah well is there a way to like look into not outside of our city like find
 out what other cities have done to like maybe prove create policy to prevent some of the i know
 they're still kind of do whatever they want because they exist in those lines and spaces but is
 there
 like examples i think that we could lobby for and who knows the constitutionality of this but lobby
 for equitable patrolling where it's like you have to have at least two officers patrolling every
 zone
 and that you know you can't have all of them in one zone so i'm sure that there's and then we'd
 have to make up zones or look at what could be pre-pre-made blue lining that is the analogous
 term so yeah i think that but because i guess when i think about it it's like we pivoted away from
 defund as a concept because of how almost impossible that is um but then how do how do yeah how do
 you
 change how yeah yeah it didn't it didn't go well for yeah but it's how do you then pivot to then
 well i think that's a great idea that i think we could all and then we go back to our mission
 and we can research uh how our community views this so like i guess the language is perceptions
 and i guess i assumed that our community that we all kind of have this perception that certain
 communities are policed more or monitor i would say monitored more by law enforcement and so
 we can conduct a survey or have try to to get out in our community does our community agree
 because we're serving our community do they feel also that certain areas zones communities or
 districts within bloomington are monitored or policed more frequently and so then we can move
 down the line and research and discuss alternatives so like i just threw out shot from the hip the
 zone
 defense method i don't know and then we could ask we could send a subcommittee out to talk to
 professionals to identify best practices uh someone who has some letters after their name
 in the areas of i don't even know right of policing and then we could make a recommendation to our
 legislators to say this is what we recommend so i think that's one good
 task that we can move towards yeah i will say well one first good job
 sticking to our charge to stick to our mission and two something that um we i've heard
 of our commission is to more regularly report um to the city council so we could do that as
 a small task form the analysis of that and a recommendation and then go and present that
 to the city council yeah and i could start you know i think if we just as an example unless
 anyone thinks of a better idea more than a half-baked off-the-cuff zone theory but we could
 either identify ways that our community is already split up we could talk about school districts or
 who knows because there are different areas of our community it's all mapped out different blocks
 or we could make a new zoning that as step one recommend our legislatures hey let's have new
 zones just for this specific policing purpose and here's how we would propose based on the experts
 that it's an equitable distribution of people and communities
 yeah okay what what does everybody else think about that idea just gauging the vibes yeah
 because i think like thinking about things that i was hoping looking back on this rather than just
 like validating that this was a good report is like forming next steps and i think that is
 a good next step and not the only thing i agree but i'm wondering how we're going to get the
 statistic about where the police are in a particular time well we're definitely not so i think we
 just
 barge past it and they can sit if if we propose something they are more than welcome to say
 actually we have data showing that they're already doing that then by all means yeah share that
 data
 they can do that because if it's already happening then yeah we might have wasted time and it's new
 but i'd be willing to make a gamble that it's not already happening and so i think we can safely
 move
 forward under the assumption that they're not putting officers lying in wait in every neighborhood
 so do we would we um how do i say would we map about map out neighborhoods or something and
 i think we start with you know ideas everyone can bring an idea for how
 what what the zones would look like and i might get a map and say well the school districts look
 pretty good i don't know like that that's a why reinvent vent the wheel if we already have our
 community all sliced up and then how do i say present it to someone at bpd and say are you
 doing this or we think this is i don't even think we need to do that you know just make a plan
 and then present it to our common council for proposed potential legislation that's their job
 but just say you know here are some zones and then we just do a little simple math how many
 officers do they have out in our community at any given time without a mission that are just kind
 of patrolling and you take all those you divide them equally amongst the zones and then it's the
 city council council's job to find out where what's going on at the moment not necessarily
 i mean we could we could go even further and draft an ordinance but that's they're the legislatures
 so we could just bring an idea we it could be anywhere from here's a recommendation that we
 want you to take action in this area to someone sponsoring a bill or i don't know what the
 nomenclature is but um proposed legislation yeah they do have zones right i mean there are already
 police police zones right that oh yeah i'm sure of course are they like known to the public
 i think so i mean they've been told to me and i've been told you know the same
 it's it's the downtown zone that is heavily heavily it has more police than the others
 yes which that's why that's why i exist so it would make sense why i see it but also but there
 there is i just looked up there's a data set about police dispatch i just clicked on that yeah so
 you know you might look at that i'm not sure what these data sets are not always user-friendly
 and i think it's just a good jumping up because the anticipated responses we're going to put more
 officers where there's more crime or more people i don't know yeah and then we it even divides into
 like this the idea that i've always when i live in this town it's like how students are differently
 released by even the two forces than the people who are committing the same crimes on the same
 street as them who live here right they take it away with 70 000 with the destruction on the
 first weekend of school but get caught homeless on kirkwood and you're thrown in the flower bed and
 arrested for the fourth time but interesting anecdote there even the students themselves see
 their rights changed significantly depending on if the alleged crime occurred on this side of third
 street or this side of the street which doesn't make sense to me but whatever yeah so thinking
 towards actionable items in the last minutes like i think this is really great so do we want to
 form an item for our next agenda to follow up on this people i think an easy goal post
 would be to invite fellow commission members to bring an idea for how they see
 the equitable policing of our community either an idea for you know what's wrong with it that our
 communities are not equitably monitored depending on different zones or i think an opinion an idea
 related to that topic because there are so many different topics and i feel like our commission
 members are all very passionate and we all like to bring different issues to the table
 and if we want to reserve some time next time to kind of continue this discussion or invite
 everyone
 to take it one step further and bring an idea for for an action item for the next time for bringing
 ideas yeah i think that's good
 so discussion of equitable policing in our community as an agenda item and then we can
 follow up on our research yeah and i think i mean specific i don't know how to state this but like
 geographically equitable if that makes sense yeah yeah well and if there's any way that
 i'm really about the internet and email and things like that but with like the things
 that we're finding on the city websites with the actual numbers i also think that would be
 another jumping point to continue that conversation about right the read what's
 changed with resource officers and where where we are now and even it's like maybe downtown
 could be placed by just resource officers or you know different things like that but
 i would think of all kind of together and it's pretty easy to find to google search i found it
 while we the both both things that we were looking at the calls and the police zones on our
 city database that being said getting it into a document yeah um that's not just much of scary
 code and i would if anyone listening or participating today wants to add it to our
 drive for exam actually no we can't add it to our drive because we're not editors um or send it out
 in an email to like there is an export button i tried to do that it didn't work so user error
 most likely so if anyone knows how to do that it would be great it it took 30 seconds i'm sure i
 just checked chose the wrong thing but if anyone wants to try and do that and send it out to the
 group so we can look have something to look at or discuss next time that's helpful i looked at
 stuff
 on my phone more often than a computer so it's definitely not going to work on your phone yeah
 that's why i feel like if someone can email it then i can sit down with computer if you're
 confident
 so yeah hence me saying i'm bad at the internet i would appreciate if anyone is capable of putting
 those things into a a follow-up or an email just like hey here's all those things we were
 attempting
 to look at do we want to leave that organic or do we want to petition volunteers or all do all work
 on that you get a computer stuff a little bit i would try exporting it as an excel i tried to
 do csv which usually works yes csv is awesome that did not work for me thank you so much
 because i do use one but i don't actively choose to sit at whenever good for you that was a
 lifestyle
 choice i made and yeah being in it i i applaud you i live free i don't know if it's free i'm poor
 so i should have gotten a good experience but any other suggestions for the future agenda before
 we adjourn all right we have our i think that's a major action item and we'll follow up on it next
 then okay thank you we have to motion to adjourn motion to adjourn seconded and we are adjourned
 (orchestral music)
 (orchestral music)
 (orchestral music)
 (orchestral music)
 (orchestral music)
 (orchestral music)
 (orchestral music)
 (orchestral music)