Yeah, I guess when it started while Jason was settling in, maybe we can at least start with the roll call. So we'll start with Jason? Here. All right. Kale? Here. Robert? Here. I'm just going down the CC list here in the email. Pamela? Here.
 Is there a reason why I'm not allowed to be seen? Well, that's being worked on. Bridget? Here. Okay, Erin? No, here. Parshish? Otherwise occupied. Yeah. And then Robert was here.
 Great. So now we've done the roll call. I guess we'll move on to the approval agenda in minutes. It's been a little bit.
 So I don't know how we are doing that. As a matter of fact, I believe, or I will humbly submit that we've not been doing very well with the minutes. But we need to try and be better at, if possible. Do you recall? We watch that. We are completing and submitting accurate minutes.
 Yeah, I think that's right. Because we don't have minutes attached to this. Okay. So I guess what we'll do is some part is if we are approving the agenda for today, which is basically just consisting of other business,
 which is discussing equitable policing in the community, which will be a general open-floor discussion. So as a brief summary of that, I guess we'll just take a quick voice vote.
 I'll take some notes. Okay. If you want me to run through the agenda. So if nobody has amendments to the agenda, then we don't have to take a voice vote. Then we can go through the agenda. So we've approved the agenda. We don't have minutes. So item two is taking care of reports for co-chairs.
 Do you have anything on? I do not. And I don't have any reports. I remember our last plan meeting was canceled because we didn't have attendance, which is understandable in the middle of children. But before that, we had been talking about policing. I know I think Aaron had intended to have something. So.
 just refreshing myself and refreshing that for everybody. I think that's a very important thing, and I've heard more discussions. But if we don't have substantive things to report, I think that it would be good to spend time talking about what we have individually in our system and collectively form something. With that, I'll pass it to any individual members with reports.
 So it could be, since we don't have anything that we've decided on projects with the board, it would be anything connected with what we discussed last meeting or anything ongoing that you think is to our machine. I'm tying back to like the Kirkwood, I was talking about,
 downtown being police differently than other places where we're starting to dive into those questions. I've been watching, it's been interesting to watch a pivot in some of the practices by the police department, as well as the students come back before getting ready for it. But the main thing I think that happened since we last met was that a raid on Seminary Park
 that took place. Yeah, I think that had an interesting tone, put forth from different directions and some things that were said or quoted in it that kind of were jarring, but mainly the one that was, we can't just arrest the problem, was the quote from the mayor that I, that has stuck with me since that I think kind of says a lot about
 what directions that he's trying to take or address homelessness or people experiencing houselessness in this town. And it being always through the police versus other resources or ideas. Do you know if there was cooperation between the mayor's office and the police when that happened? I only knew about it because the mayor's office released a statement and then later on to do
 What is it when they speak? There was a statement released on the internet and then there was like a press thing. So I wasn't aware of the raid until it was announced that it had happened. And some of- And the mayor had reported that her address was not coordinated with the arrest. I don't know. But then there was quotes from that that was like, well, I don't know, alarming. So that's kind of where my-
 the tie back into what we're like resource officers and equitable policing that I think is an interesting thing to make sure that we're also paying attention to how the city handles the use of the police. It all ties in. That is interesting considering that the 2023 report was
 A lot of it was about that. And I know the city's also mentioned like there was another announcement saying that 2026 would be the year that they finally tackle affordable housing to them and address what a lot of people think is the route to crime. And then, so as we start to watch these resources and things work, I think it'll be interesting to
 maybe tie that all into what we suggest or how we start to come up with ideas on, because you guys focused a lot on housing. As in your original report, you kind of pivoted towards that. Yeah. That was one of the main things. And that was the side group, the smaller report that kind of got subsumed because it came out at the same time as our bigger report. Yeah. But it was unpassable. Yeah. Which I think you guys did a lot of big work on. But I think those things I forgot on.
 wrapping them all into alternatives to policing the communities of the meantime, and also how the city interacts with the policing in those communities. Yeah. Good picture there, but those are what have been on my mind since the last time we spoke. Excellent job. Anybody else with ideas, big or small?
 Any staff reports? No, we're recording. And we'll open that up to reports from the public. Is there anybody on Zoom? Anybody in the public in the room that would like to be in the room? All right, smiles only it is.
 So I did the training cohort with the progress about community responded programs. So I have a lot of information about other communities that have watched such programs ranging from smaller cities like Olympia, Washington to big cities like San Francisco.
 So there is a lot of data out there about what works well and how the job of police can be lessened by a more appropriate response in many circumstances. So it should be a social service response, a social worker response to emergencies. So I'm happy to share that information if that's of interest.
 I would also love to kind of partner with you all if this is something you decide to do, no pressure, to maybe reach out to the public and let people in the Bloomington community know about such programs and where we stand in Bloomington, where we have the Stride Center, but it's not part of the government and it's not part of the 9-1 dispatch system.
 Um, and compare that with where other communities have gone and integrated those things. So, uh, if this commission is interested in, uh, maybe, uh, having some kind of, uh, community outreach meeting to discuss this, this, um, this model, I'd be happy to help make connections, say, with, uh, people in other communities that aren't bad through the screen.
 I would be very interested in hearing more about what you have to share if it fits into our workload today. What was the formal cohort called again that you attended? Well, Local Progress is a national organization of progressive local elected officials, city, county, and school board. And so they had a training
 for community responder programs. And it was for city elected. And I don't have a presentation ready today, so. Thank you for your work and for your report. And with that,
 we can turn to old business. So we can open the discussion to equitable policing within the community. So perhaps to start on, did anybody do any targeted research, working on the things? I feel like I need, sorry about the computer, someone was like, what's the nice to do list? And I know we had, we were talking at one and Aaron had a lot of really good,
 legal input, but then I was like, I don't really know which direction to begin looking besides that, just the information we talked about of figuring out who responds to what calls and making that information digestible, right? Which I think you mentioned maybe using the budget to hire somebody to like do that or, but not a technical asset. Yeah. I have the,
 amateur skills. And that's about it. What do we know about what the process looks like to figure that out, like to get that information? How involved is it? And I'm asking because I wonder if I should add something I could do potentially, but I don't want to say yes to something that I don't know how complicated it could be. I don't know if it's stomped in or not. I was like,
 Yeah, I feel like that's what Aaron had like a click on websites that were available, but I don't know if we were able to. Click that because I've seen stuff reported, but some stuff's not. Yeah, but there is absolutely there has to be a report. Like, there has to be record of these reports, but are they. There was somewhere that I didn't figure out so. Yeah, so maybe that's.
 a nice way to start breaking it down and figure out actual tangible numbers and things. Yeah. Back to friends. I know when we initially did research for the larger board, we ran into the reality that
 a lot of the calls were not coded. Like it was hard, we had to parse through that. So technical skills would definitely be necessary to categorize things. So if Aaron had an idea, he's gonna get later. Right. He's gonna get later, though. Certainly he doesn't get the gas. Yeah, I mean, we could reach out to Aaron and say, you know, no rush, like have a baby first. No.
 You know, whenever you feel recovered, like a log task would be to send us the process information. Well, I'm so good. I just wish I understood the city's website better, but I've never really dug into it. So it's paying for utilities. Excuse me. I'm having trouble hearing you. Sorry, I talk really low, yeah? Yeah.
 Well, sorry. Did you know, I know you have a lot more access to the information and how, did you know where we were talking about where those reports would be filed or like an online database? Police calls that come in. For how those are reported and jot it down. I know you had mentioned stuff last time. Yeah. But if there's a starting point.
 Bloomington portal that has public safety calls. Connect. I don't know how detailed that data is. That's a great start. Thank you for looking.
 Anybody can look at that. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Which one would that be in the topics.
 Jason, do you know if there's been a follow-up to the, um, the, um, the report? Yeah. Alternatives to police response for 9-1-1 calls for service. Uh, yeah. It was 15 years ago. No, it's not. But there were recommendations made. Yeah. No.
 There hasn't been a follow-up. So I can say that I met with the deputy mayor on Tuesday, and the mayor's office still intends to do a study of our 9-month-long falls this year. Did they? Yes. Because they were supposed to send us the information
 and we have never received it. But it has not been done yet, but they still plan to do it this year. Thank you. Do they have an estimated time when they would want it to complete? No. Just in time. They want to cover the cost this year, so they may sign a deal on December 24. I don't know. They're going to use the money this year, somehow.
 Okay. One day. Um,
 Yes. You remember from that report, uh, that we were just referring to, um, how we came up with some of the recommendations. Was that, was that Naisla primarily working through those calls? Um, yeah, but mostly Naisla. We could always send her an email.
 we have questions about the process there. Yeah, I talked to her on Sunday. You did talk to her this past Sunday or you're going to talk to her this coming Sunday? I talked to her this past Sunday. You go back there and ask her? I didn't tell you. Send me a question of what you'd like me to ask her and I can ask her.
 Yeah, just the process of screening through those calls. Because I know she's a lot better with nitty-gritty, process-oriented data. Send me a message of everything that you'd like me to ask her, because you're better at the details. And send me that, and I'll send a message. I'll ask Najla. Will do. No problem.
 Okay. For instance, the first recommendation in the report was to have a social worker at dispatch at the 9-1-1 dispatch. Do we know if that's happened? Hey, Shaw's hired somebody. Oh, okay. Awesome. That's awesome.
 That's right. That's actually a pretty good idea. There's certainly things that we probably couldn't tell us, but just like the process, what has changed? What they see. This is asking for the social worker to come to talk
 Yeah, committee. Yeah. To do some things or try my best to capture it. Yeah. Wow. And then another potential item for the future is inviting Casamani to be mass-med bad with good time. So that's the trick of her. Presentation, yeah.
 data pages, slides, but I don't know how to read a lot of it, so. But it's there, even if anyone digs into it and can understand it a little better. It's like there's like, you can type the list in and it'll give you all the things that are related to them, but I haven't seen anything specifically about, there's dispatch zones, not dispatch reasons or like why, but I couldn't really figure out how to read the dispatch zones, so that's what I'm going to
 practice as we move forward. So it was like involved shootings, hate crimes, trainings. There's a bunch of stuff on there, but. A return to what you initially reported on detail, with those arrests in the park, first alone in itself before the mayor got to it. What I noted, there were a couple of things I noted.
 Um, one, the, the framing around that was eight people were arrested in a targeted, um, arrest for, um, predatory drug dealing. And then people on my newsfeed pointed out like two of those were for marijuana offenses. And then at least one of those people who was arrested for marijuana was, um, dead named. Um, and that struck me. Was what? Dead named, um, their trans individual and their
 What does dead name mean? You use their previous, the name of, there's no longer their name. So you dead name them. Oh, okay. I wasn't from that. Thank you for explaining that. Yeah. So if you call a trans person or someone who has a different name by their previous name, that is dead naming them. I see. Okay. And that was drawn from the police report. So, you know, I'm still no less disappointed, but we passed a resolution.
 for protection that the cops would develop and pass the larger resolution for protection of trans individuals. So just to report on that. And then to characterize them, when I talked to them directly and they had a personal possession of marijuana and then they were characterized as a predatory drug dealer. So it's like, people who aren't willing to dig, just get that surface exposure. So beyond,
 our larger work of looking at reforms in policing and the way that we attempt to prime here. I think the way that we frame it as a community also is something that we can call out. In fact, I was away that week, but I thought about making a more real public statement. Yeah.
 More of a public statement might be warranted, but I would wonder, are we seeing a disconnect or an overlap with how the legal system needs to legally name folks and report crimes? And does that, as a result of that, does that end up falling through the cracks and then folks get dead named as a result? I think that might be something to kind of
 peek into, you know, so are the police required to give a legal or birth name, which to trans folks would be effectively dead-knowing them? And then how, you know, how can we, how can the police do better in their probing that is so a little more defensive of that? Because we could make a statement
 drawing attention to that, but would there be actionable items to help defend trade folks now also potentially working in general through the legal system? Well, I mean, if someone gets arrested, don't they have to, and the officer knows who to arrest, don't they have to show ID?
 I have, you know. A lot of times with consciousness and clearing of encampments and things like that, people get all of their stuff thrown away. Social security guards are thrown away every single time, but getting those documentation is made impossible by the people who are clearing them out of the streets every time versus just being like, hey, gather the things. I mean, it's always all thrown away. So that's a large,
 a large thing that I don't think anyone thinks about when you think about encampments or how, when the police are there clearing them, even in the city. I mean, I think our mayor, believe it or not, you know, but they throw away everything. It's not, people aren't really given the opportunity. They could say they give them the opportunity, but it's not true. You're not wanting to go back into something where you're potentially at harm, at risk when the police are there throwing your things away or trying to clear.
 So social security cards are the one thing that are thrown away the most. And that's the one thing that you have to leave. And then you have to like, to get an ID, you have to have it. And it's like, and I think even today there was some announcement from the mayor's office about resources that are offered by the city for people experiencing homelessness and wanting to change that to being for residents only, proving that you have residents in this, which,
 How can you prove that you have residents who don't have any residents? Working in a shelter business and it was, that's where you're like, oh my God, that's insane. But that's also because social security guards are going, how are you going to prove you have, you live in this, you don't have a home, you don't have your possessions because you don't have your social security guard thrown away the first time you were sleeping outside or something.
 It's like in Elkhart County, my mom works in everything but shelter. She's a part, but her nonprofit does, and that's the one thing that's like her thing she has to always help people get back again after. So she usually tries to go whenever she hears there's a clearing to be like, hey, I'm a social worker, please give us 10 minutes. Let's get these things. But it's usually the one thing that is always thrown away, like your identification to prove that you are
 somebody here. And then you have to go through all these things when you already have hurdles. Jason, at Beacon House, do they do that sort of thing, help people get IDs that don't have? Yeah, they help people if their IDs were thrown away, they go through the arduous process with them. But we're in the business of harm reduction. Is that where you?
 I worked there for two months, but I volunteered there for six plus years. So how do you get a social security card if you have no way to? I only did it once, but I remember I had an idea and stuff. So it was like, it felt easy, but also I can only imagine it feels insanely daunting or impossible or not necessary after, you know, your stuff's going around long.
 Just going to keep getting arrested and we're. So, yeah, I lost my social security card, a couple years ago, so I was, you know, I think I have to take my ID and my passport and then what more proof of address and it was.
 It's incredibly long. Right. I was going to say you can use your passport, but probably. Yeah. If you were on there, I was thinking like through like that too. Yeah. And proof of address, right? Yeah. And don't have similar letters coming in and things like that. So. To circle back to the initial, not knowing, I actually know from personal
 interaction with the individual I'm referring to that they knew her preferred pronouns and preferred name. I know this because they stole some things from me when I was volunteering at Shalom. And I was like, first we confronted her and asked her to give them back, but she had gotten rid of them for whatever reason, sold them or hid them. And then finally the cops contacted me
 And when I gave them her name, they said, oh, we know her. We know where she frequents. So to give some credit to the police department, they are actually aware of individuals. So the report that it was kind of planned, I suppose, has some odd credibility to it. If it was planned, then I
 I have to, I have to read that as, um, a little bit malicious. If, if only from intentional, right? To lump somebody like that. And then to not use their preferred name and then know their preferred name. Also with my interaction, they asked me if I wanted to charge her.
 with anything. And I said, well, good with that, dude. I just want my headphones back. And I worked something out with her. And she got a job. And she put aside money and gradually paid me back. So I know that, one, these individuals are capable of more than the news report offers, and two, that the police department is capable of better than what happened in this incident. I think it's not happening.
 I think in our, as much as I'm invested in that, in making sure people are detonated, I think that we can just kind of get to a point where we're helping individuals fight, protect their identities and the papers involved with that in order for us to help better. Yeah. Rather than just, you know, I think that it's,
 I think where I was coming from is, you know, we could sit there and say, we'll make a statement, but I see folks being like, well, you know, but if we're- The groundwork. Yeah, if we set up the groundwork to protect their identities, you know, okay, we can't, you know, we can't immediately stop a scheduled clearing of an encampment. Well, then can we sit there and help make sure that the police have a baseline of what are you going to try to help people get at their minimum?
 And that is their identity, whatever that is. And I remember in the council's deliberation on the resolution to protect trans individuals, council member Daley talked about her husband having to use pronouns assigned to the gender assigned at birth and dead names.
 against his will and found ways to get around it as much as he could. So I know that council is aware and like that they're aware of the limitations of the things that we're passing. But I think your point to a structural way is better. To jump back into the resolutions that we pass every question. I'm all pride board.
 And I have to open them to private just for Saturday, so for free. But we had an interesting interaction with that resolution. I was going to ask that we were working at the same goals who were part of that person. And I believe one of them is in the Human Rights Commission as well. So we were having conversations about how to announce that at Pride, and it was
 wanted that the mayor would announce it. And our stage is only for queer and trans folks. We get one stage a year. That's just the base rule. And I was like, how about we let the women that wrote it with you speak? And that's what we did. But there was, we had requested follow-up to talk about what, how can we grow that table of what trans safety means? Because if you're going to invite trans folks to live here and trans folks to
 moved to here, then you also have to think about all of the things that, and oftentimes that means how systems, oftentimes that means that the police aren't safe for most trans folks. It's that you have to like start to flush that out. And that's, I think those are inherently tied together and we never got the opportunity to actually sit down and have that conversation afterwards. And after you had suggested, but I still think those conversations can happen between the human rights commission, between public safety commission and
 I'm a queer person. I don't find safety or solace in any space that I'm in. I know lots of other people are able to, and that's a nice privilege. And I know even those people beyond where I stand as a very cisgender
 person to further that point about train safety. I think there's a lot to flip out about how people are policed, especially if you're going to invite them and say, you are safe here, and then not do any of the groundwork to ensure that safety. I personally feel like, correct me if I'm wrong, but the police knew the individual had
 was going by new name was Taryn Jember. And they didn't, like the dead name in some sense wasn't tension, right? That just shows a sign of disrespect to like the way, that's the way I take it, you know, the police intentionally, they know it, but it's disrespectful because they know it's disrespectful. They know someone's going to take offense to that. And, and so,
 With people who don't feel the police is representative of them or take solace with the police, I think an important portion of it is respect. They don't feel that the police respects them as an individual, doesn't respect their identity. And I think a lot of that, it's very hard to change the culture around a police department, but it's important to, I don't know if a presentation will do something like this, but to help build that respect, to have a police officer respect an individual for their identity, whether it's the transgender,
 person of color, whatever. And I think this goes back to something that we tracked in our research interviews. We were talking about perceptions of safety versus actual safety. And safety is a very slippery turn. But this is a point where we can say, even if you say that legally they were required to report the dead name because of their given name at birth,
 That's why there is structural threats to people. Like even if some, even if that individual felt completely comfortable with the police, there's still danger there or there's still harm being done. Yeah, I think that's my point. I'm trying to figure out like, yeah. So Jason, what ultimately happened with those people that were thrown out of seminary fire?
 All right, do you know? So I followed up with that individual and her charges were dropped a little bit. What happened was different because they had different charges. They had a range of things. That person's, I think it was originally a felony. I think they got dropped to a misdemeanor. So it's,
 It is a case by case after that. I mean, they were grouped together in the report, but it was handled case by case. And so have people stopped hiding out there? People were afraid for the first few weeks. It was a word on the street to not go there out of fear of being targeted again.
 From what I understand and what conversations I've ever had, that's one of the safest places to experience homelessness because you're centralized, because there's a vantage point from all sides versus being pushed to an outside of the city where you could be armed by others, by people in your own printed site. But I think every year before the students come back, there's always some forms of clearing.
 that happens, whether it be a public, that's why I thought it was interesting that it was publicized, or that a statement was made, because there's never been empathy or even transparency about it, which I thought, and then that's where the, that's why there was a language that caught me up, because I was like, what are you trying to accomplish with this? Whereas years before you weren't, but now you're trying to prove that there was, there was a right reason to do it. And that, and then you're gonna follow it again and be like, it's, it's,
 Because these are all tied, I know that the city is working on things all the time, but I just hope that they start to actually add people who are part of the conversation. The cops are never going to understand, because they're not going to get an honest experience out of it. Because if you're afraid of the police, you're not going to tell them. So I think the city, if they would add actual voices or support the organizations and then maybe
 through this like resource officer and or social worker, social worker, social worker of the buff. So, but those people haven't haven't gone away, but I suppose they just sort of dispersed and went to other places in the city. You got nowhere to go. You know, so at some point, you're going to end up in another park or so arresting the problem is not real, but boy, they sure do try.
 And in the mayor's address, she said, you can't arrest white homelessness. Then several sentences later, it's sad. And yet, just this week, we arrested people. So it's like, this is just a warning in there. What do we know about, like, do we assume that there was not a valid reason
 or like that there was, because it's so close to high school, I don't know, there might, I mean, and I really don't know, this is an honest question. I'm curious, what do we know about that? Like how, like, is there other interactions between high schoolers and people with like drugs and how is that? Is that- High schoolers can get drugged at the high school.
 Yeah. There's all kinds of drugs at the high school if they want. If they want drugs bad enough, they can get them at the high school. They don't have to leave there if they want them. They don't have to worry about making their way down to the park. Okay. I think what was insinuated in calling them predatory dealers is that they were carrying upon House's spokes. Yeah. It was like,
 I think it was that they're praying one last community, furthering the problem, which was the idea of the language I was trying to be here. I see. But I think if you open anyone's front door, I bet you're pleased to find a reason to arrest you or charge, you know what I mean? So it's like everyone's doing drugs behind their closed doors, or everyone's doing. Especially with Indiana laws. Yeah, how they are with a lot of drug issues. So I think targeting
 We don't have the ability to add those things or you're always going to find them. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's just like an empathy. Yeah. And yeah. What, like, what's the motivation like doing that? Is it, or is it maybe even like performing things that look like public safety acts? I think, yeah, I'm trying to, probably not the reasons, but I imagine you wouldn't get me to say.
 The actual no. Yeah. I, I, I'm sorry. I'm, I'm catching up on all of this. I don't know a lot about this topic. So you're asking me good questions. The thing I took from it, I was like, we want, we want college kids to the same thing. Yeah. Right. Even the cities before that, how much damage downtown receives the first week.
 Kids are back like thousands of dollars worth of damage to light posts. And then it's like, yeah. And I, I'm always intrigued. It's like, I think they're listed how many people are experiencing homelessness and it's like a hundred and something, but how a hundred and something people are treated differently than the 48,000 who can afford to. Where's the.
 equity there and where's the yeah yeah yeah and there's i think that disappears as soon as the kids come back so you know stuff like that but it's always little things where you like start to pay attention to and people new to the city right so like one thing i was paying attention to is public discussion saying this always happens when the students come back part of that is what in the field of rhetoric we call apoductic right we demonstrate how to behave what what looks like
 a safe and civil city, right? So I opened the door for Kale and Kale says, thank you. Then you learn that you're supposed to open the door for people and when people open the door for you, you say thank you. So like arresting a cohort of people in the park and calling them predatory drug dealers is demonstrating that you're not supposed to deal drugs in the park and you're not supposed to be on house and these other things.
 It's not about that same thing as I've done to students who carry marijuana or things like that, right? So it is important to recognize this always happens, but also as we've begun pointing out, what is different about this instance? What is changing? What is a little better? What is still problematic? Is that community is made up of almost, that's the other language was that.
 Their belief is that a lot of people are being sent from other cities to be houseless here and then take up the resources that are there to people get off the streets that do live here. And so I think that's where that proving your residency is coming from, but also insane if you start to think about it at all. And it's to blame other cities versus just being like,
 Well, there are community members now. They're here. 48,000 kids are here. What do we do? We treat them well, and we make sure everyone feels welcome. And that's what our town is built on, this idea that people are temporary, and yet some people aren't allowed to. Yeah. Yeah.
 and students are shipped here from all sorts of places. They have places to stay. It's fine, because we love it. It brings, that's what I'm saying. It's like, so why 100 people versus- Yeah. Yeah. Council member Boland previously, like five years ago or so, made the point that there's a large transient population here, and it's the students, right?
 That was when I realized that I'm also translating. Yeah, right. We all were at some point. They have identities. They have identity papers. They have housing. The housing is very diverse. But I remember being a student and every day I was the closest to having a home. So it's the equity of that. I feel like they're time, that's our main
 You know, everyone's like, it's not safe because it houses people and they're forgetting to look at the how. And it's like, we're not going to solve the problem by arresting them. Yeah. So I think it's all tied into policing. That's why I bring these things up. Then we hope for ways that we can create informational incidents and just a better way to treat our neighbors. Yeah. Can I just...
 Interject, there were 504 funhouse people that wanted to evangelize. And still not 40,000. Yeah, 500. There, how many Airbnbs are there? One of the points that we made in our report is that there are so many empty units in this town.
 cause we haven't figured it, but that's, you know, you can get down to the, that's a whole other commission. And like, why, why are people allowed to come do the multi-million dollar developments for 40, a population of 40,000 people that come and leave for, but they don't have to commit a certain amount of money to a beacon or other organizations that are actually providing humane resources and resources that don't have barriers. And why don't they have to have a small section of some building
 be this or pay, so why are those things not thought of first besides arresting people, the problem away or blaming other. Yeah, just one of the others. Do you trust that number? Do you think that's pretty accurate? I don't know. It's from Heading Home. Who's Heading Home? Heading Home South Central Indiana. It's a nonprofit.
 They're not what's the United Way in the world. I want to start. They actually have people going around. Information system that all of the service providers. And that's when they get.
 I mean, I'm always skeptical of, but that's just because I've seen organizations not taken seriously who actually do have people on that conversation every day versus the Christian one or the one that can get all the state funding who doesn't.
 It has barriers and doesn't actually communicate with people. But that's not really my state. I'm skeptical of everything because I trust the system. And that's why you're on the prevention side. I think the dead naming also provides one cause of people slipping into homelessness is queer individuals, specifically youth.
 that are pushed out of their homes. Bamba is a company that makes socks, who makes that point too, is that, because when you buy a pair of socks from them, they buy a pair and donate it to an organization, but they also make the point that they specifically fund initiatives to support queer youth experiencing homelessness. I don't know what point I was trying to make with that, but like the idea that
 The way we talk about that is both penalizing people experiencing homelessness and penalizing people who are exposed and queer, right? Yeah, it's unfortunately all tied together. Yeah, that makes it really hard to take. Oh, I'm sorry, do like grab one tangible thing and
 Our tangible thing, I guess, is policing. And I think the alternative social work aspect presentation would be an awesome way to start to dive into maybe just tangible plans to understand that because we can start to tackle affordable housing, but that would just be another, it's a whole commission of issues. Maybe we can inform that with our,
 our work on the policing side and advocating for those who are over policed. So it's like, you know, you end up with a misdemeanor. How are you ever going to be able to afford a apartment if you already don't have money? So maybe this thing we can actually will help inform other things that we hope to see and achieve. Yeah.
 how, like, this may strike people as a naive question. But I can't imagine that someone who hears, like, who, like, you explain these problems to, like, if, like, that they wouldn't come a little closer to being understanding.
 and open, I want to believe that like say to police that they act the way they do because they don't know better and they have blind spots is what I hope. And that with maybe a little bit of education, not following an education, but getting to know people and stories that could make a change. That's when you start to think like I've,
 how I was believing in abolition. But if what? Abolition, like that's where I exist. And that is a strong thing that you can't get anyone else fully on board because to find abolition for, that police are not needed to abolish the whole prison system, to remove it entirely. It is not a, so only because I believe fully that it's too big and broken to reform.
 Like you can't, the violence and the other, it's like there's, it's, you can try to, and that's why I was like, I know it's not possible because the system is so large and because you can't talk to anybody and have them be like, yeah, that's because you're going to find all these different opinions. But how do you, how do you then make change where you're
 implementing educational things to these people who already are police officers and have a full training system that maybe doesn't believe in, or doesn't have the capacity for empathy anymore, or is doing a job or doing, like, how do you start to, what things can be brought into their world? Or how can incentives be made? Or through the social work programs, can there be a required education that goes into it? Or can we start to like,
 figure out how not to have as many guns on the person so that there's the escalation and there's other requirements as a city. Can you start to implement policies to your own department to then hopefully give them the resource, well, they have plenty of resources, but to reallocate those resources towards empathetic education and or can you reform it through those things or? Yeah. That's when I start to think outside of my own system, you start to get into those, it starts to feel wealthy, but there has to be a way.
 With the system. Yeah. Like injecting. Trying to change it. Yeah. That's what I hope. I think hope is next. That's what I want. Because I'm a little dramatic about my other side. I want to figure out dramatic ways to be like, and I think the social work thing is a great start, but can't nor social be hired. It's like, shouldn't all police officers be trained in social work instead? Yeah.
 You know, it's like, what if we had a city where guns weren't needed? It's like, you're an officer. You should be able to handle just about anything. But it's like, you know, guns exist everywhere. And then you start talking about it. So yeah, I think there are ways. And I think maybe that's, there's little ones that we could suggest that wouldn't just be immediately shot down or police unions and how that whole thing operates is such a big thing to push against.
 Cause even if your city agrees to it, then you've got these big states being like, we're going to back you guys up. And it becomes a bite. Yeah. And then it escalates. So I wonder that's those little things possible. What's something that actually seems like they would be excited about or can be convinced that it's their own idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Through the social work program, maybe.
 more social workers can be hired versus doing cops out of retirement. Yeah. To fill the need. Yeah. One day we don't have such a need in the future if we can still figure out alternatives that really do make our community safer outside of traditional police structures. Yeah. Which I guess is our initial statement. So here we are. And maybe this is something when we hear more about the
 community responder programs in other cities, how did they make those invoices? How did they go about like infusing small pockets of change to then make that something that can take hold? I'm intrigued. So I think it'd be fun to talk to the dispatch person too, because I know they're new, but maybe they have ideas that they haven't got to say out loud.
 Yeah. Even in their own workspace. Right. Or they have suggestions for us to try to move on. Yeah. And, and yeah, and I think doing it locally, like figuring out what is that actually going on is a better approach for our commission to try to implement change.
 Because with that big report, we also visited other cities and banged through a bit of things and kind of tried to distill it to here's some things we can adopt. Here's recommendations for how, here's the way that we can proceed. But as a commission, that was the- Pickles. Pickles.
 We gotta thank you. Yeah, we gotta thank you. But yeah, like, other than us being informed to try and figure out what's actually going on, that's something we didn't speak to. I mean, we've gotten feedback from big council in the past that
 not just showing up for an annual report, but actually showing up once we figure something out and something we want to say, it might be worth it to go to come up with something as a commission that we want to say to the council and public comment so that the public can hear about this, as well as the council, the government body, so that we're not just having this interesting experience.
 There's also a recommendation in the report for a nurse to be at dispatch. So I don't know if that ever happened or if it's something that's a good idea. Sorry, I'm just concerned that there may not be a good context, understanding of the context of the report that was in your packet.
 So the report was not done by the spine. The report on the 9-1-1 dispatch was done through an interdepartmental team of county and city people that were appointed by Mayor Hamilton to look at the 9-1-1 dispatch in 2023 if it was still in office. Then at the end of your packet, there's a response from the CAHPS commission
 to some of the recommendations. So just want to clarify, that report is not on this commission. And actually the people on this commission at the time took some issue with that report. And I don't think they've done anything with it in the new mayoral administration. No.
 That's an opportunity. So yes, for clarity, I mean, that that was in our packet, just to clarify, which was sent to us on August 15th.
 Christine sent us not only an agenda, but part of that packet. So something that would be good for us to do, especially with the number of days before, is to actually review that packet to get some of the information for us to kind of guide that conversation.
 And obviously, all of us have life events happening from our day to day, and some of us may not be able to read it all over. I will admit that I'm one of those people, so I'm just reiterating to us all, if our staff liaison is putting forth that effort to get us that packet, saying it as much to me as to everybody else that we try as part of this body,
 to take time to read that over so that we can bring a more informed discussion into them.
 So we're getting all of these pieces together and they're important. But I think that we all need to read them over and distill them for future meetings, especially the heading home report, our own report from 2023, the 9-1-1 report. We're all meeting to get together and reading this stuff, making notes,
 to bring to these meetings in the future. Is there a Google Drive or something where we store all these things? Because managing email is getting so hard. I have access to Google Drive, and it does look like everyone here has at least contributor access to that. OK.
 And so all of the materials are posted on the website. So you can go to Tenderly Test Machine in a meeting and document to find all the previous documents. I would have a request for, I know that you guys have a lot on their plate, this is staff.
 And I know that we've had requests to put kind of the mission statement on for like at least the meeting things, which I've appreciated from our part. I'm wondering if I can make a request of you and Lisa to when we do some of the prep caps, we need to also link to that Google Drive. I don't know unless I've missed it.
 It's actually included in the agenda. I'm wondering about the body of the email. Okay. And then what I'm hoping that might do, sorry, I feel like I'm an organization volunteer because I've been coming back to that oftentimes when we've had big meetings like this. That way, you as
 the Royal U.S. Staff Liaisons are seeing also, I might be adding that link, but through all the people that I've emailed to also have contributor goals on that, which I know this is the hope that we, as the volume politic, will often refer to these areas instead of
 having to keep coming back to you guys or each of us individually, just to try and find a centralized space for all of this, because we are going to have those questions. I know, where is this posted? We're going to have that sent to us every week. Well done. I do appreciate it. Thank you. Oh, no. I see it. You were right.
 Yeah. I mean, no, thanks for clarifying that. And it's probably been said before and shared before. It's just like, I sometimes organizationally overwhelmed. And so it's helpful to just know where the place is. Due to my day job, I think I've got eight different Google identities. That's so, yeah.
 Yeah. Not including all the ones like, oh my gosh, my phone is there today. I'm going to make another Google account so that I can put more data in there. Yeah. So I know it's a lot. And the cloud is exceedingly wonderful, but also exceedingly frustrating. So yeah. Yeah. So just having that friction.
 When we coordinated with the staff liaisons is also awesome. But then we also need to remember to look at those links and try to review all that stuff before we come to a meeting saying that just as much to me as to everybody. Organization won't.
 I mean, so I think, I mean, unless, you know, I know being mindful of everybody's time, it sounds like we're still kind of wrestling with all of this, not only the equitable policing, but also like dealing with a lot of the data dump that we've gotten.
 maybe that we want to move on to topics and gestures for future agendas. Sounds like we would want to continue thinking and maybe bringing more actionable discussion next time, I would propose. I also heard potentially reaching out to the dispatch social worker to maybe come and talk. I think I heard that.
 For me, I've also heard about reaching out to somebody named Isabelle, I believe, about her recent work with community responder programs. So a more formal reach out to Isabelle about that. I think for me, this might not be a topic suggestion per se. Maybe this is something that we all think about, but I'd
 Trying my best to take notes. I know it is very difficult to take notes and also contribute. So I do wonder about the possibility of rotating that note duty. And then sending on those notes, whatever they are, to maybe at least have a discussion with the staff liaison, because that would allow them, when they send all the information to us, like, here's all the notes from the last meeting, so that then we can go up to,
 the approval of agenda and minutes and actually have minutes to approve. That's what I've heard. I don't know if anybody else has heard something else or wants to add any other thing to that. The digestibility of that, the police, the law, I'm not sure I would still talk about. That's reaching out to all the data.
 A data person can compile for us or note that. Let's see it. I want to take it. I wonder if something might be revealed about if we review the normal call report that's in the page that might pop up. Yeah.
 I could be wrong on that, but I agree with you. It's a lot of data to kind of rush through. I guess I can dig, I can try to figure out that website to see if there's actually even what I understand. It's the internet skills. I told you. It is not. I'll help. It's the drag queen, and that's about it. I'll help the drag queen, too. No, thank you. It would be a mess. It would be a hot mess to get it.
 Yeah, but if you want to reach out to me. Yeah, I mean, it's no use. So many soloing. Yeah. Straight. Don't look.
 Yeah, look at what time of year it is. Everybody moves. That's true. I'm likely out of that system for now. It's always like 10 more games. More than... Okay. Fascism is not cute. So... I think that's what I've done.
 And what is the rule on how many people are allowed to get together without it being an official number? I don't. Is it three? You have to not get one, so two.
 Two by two. Yeah. Yes. I believe my partner is interested in joining. So do it technically. Always be afraid of quorum if that's allowed to be the thing. Only if our quorum meant two people in this quorum. He was checking in on those details, so I was wondering.
 Is that legal here? So it sounds to me like we've got a lot of stuff to read, digest, and think about for the next meeting. I will try to send out what notes I have to our wonderful staff liaison. Do you want to include that in the packet?
 I think what I might do, because it is a mess, because I'm not the best, that maybe I send it direct to you and Lisa for maybe better distilling, because they are like notes and chicken scratches. And I might take a moment to review some of the stuff that we did talk about in the body to see.
 know what precedent there is for other note takers in other groups, but I feel more comfortable sending it direct to you all before sending it out to the group in case I've misrepresented anything or stuff like that. So, and especially maybe something that Distill has been talking about, maybe rotating note taking duty as well. You know, I like the idea of that note taker sending it direct to the liaison before
 get it to the rest of it. Yeah, if that works out. So, that scene is it's 1724 Eastern. That's wild, I'm gonna do that again. I just said that. Military? 24 hour time, not military time. I always say it's 24 hour time, because I'm a nerd, not a military person. So,
 Sounds like unless we've got only last minute stuff, motion to adjourn. One additional reminder is that we do have a meeting set up already for schedules on September 18th. So if you want to check if everyone's available. Great idea.
 Not only do I have a lot of Google identities, but I have a lot of Google calendars. So all these get to track. You said the 18th? Yes. To be available? Unavailable. Unavailable. Wherever we are in town, but I can do it virtually on every night.
 It sounds like we have a loose quorum in Chile. Kim, do you think that you would lean remote or? I will have my chemo a week before that, so. So it's, yeah. Good thing. So we have two totally remote people. What's the max on that again?
 What? What's the maximum number on the numbers for COVID-19? 5 in person. 5 in person. Oh, OK. Thank you. So if it can make it in person, then it sounds like we have a tentative for somebody who is ill. So yes, I would say.
 No, no, no. If you can do it, you can do it remotely. If there are remotes in, you know, the rest of us show up. And so maybe, yeah, Aaron might be back. So obviously, we'll send another email like we did just to see who all makes it in. That would be awesome. Does Xero step off them? Can I shut in for a second? There's no remote. Yeah, there's no remote. Sorry.
 Thank you for adding that in. Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn.