Good evening seen as we have a quorum and it is 630. I'm gonna go ahead and call this Deliberation session of the Bloomington Common Council to order here on Wednesday, April 9th. Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember Flaherty here Ruff here Rallo here Piedmont Smith here Stossberg Daly is absent Zulek here Rosenberger here and Asari Thank you I've been trying to start out most meetings this year with some items of historical interest I Skipped that last week because we were trying really really hard to have a really fast meeting Which we accomplished very well So but today I am going to start off with This little tidbit related to black culture in Bloomington so in the early 1970s Dr. Herman C. Hudson oversaw several developments related to black culture on the IU campus including founding the black studies department Opening the black culture center and the afro-american arts institute and that includes the african-american dance company And I wanted to highlight that tonight because this weekend they are having their 50th anniversary Two-part performance on Friday and Saturday night at the bus car chumbly. So I just thought that that was something important to note Especially in this moment where it seems like there's a lot of pieces of culture that are trying to be canceled This is something this weekend that is going to continue to be highlighted. Hopefully for at least another 50 years So on to our agenda summation Since last week's meeting was very brief. We're gonna start with a period of councilmember reports tonight Then we are gonna have a council discussion related to budget priorities for 2026 We're gonna have public comment related to budget priorities some notes on council schedule and then adjournment So we will start on My right with councilmember reports councilmember Flaherty Thank You councilmember rough Councilmember Rallo. Yes, just to announce that councilmember Ruff and I have our monthly constituent meeting this Saturday at 10 a.m. Which is April 12 I believe So you can find a link at the council website Bloomington dot ion dot gov slash council and You're welcome to join us Thank you Thank You councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes Yes As many of you know, there was a large Demonstration here in Bloomington and many cities throughout the country on Saturday a hands-off rally to let the federal government and especially Donald Trump's administration know that We value Social justice we value integrity. We value the rights of people from all walks of life value diversity equity and inclusion And many other things that that were addressed during the rally And I just wanted to mention that and there was a good turnout and councilmember Zulek and I spoke and councilmember Asari as well and some of our colleagues from the county and state governments as well and It's just very important for us to keep speaking out about what's happening in our federal government because it is not normal and it is not acceptable For Myself, I do have a constituent meeting this Saturday is always the second Saturday of the month It'll be at 11 a.m. And since the farmers market has started back up in In front of City Hall, there will be an in-person component. So it'll be a hybrid meeting I will be in person in the McCloskey room of City Hall from 11 to 12 11 to 12, but you can also join via zoom and There will be a link As for councilmembers are all own rough. There's a link on the City Council web page to that zoom meeting Thank you Great. Thank you going down to the other end councilmember. Sorry no report. Thanks. That's member Rosenberger councilmember Zulek My my new newsletter will be releasing on Monday. So if you'd like to subscribe you can go to tiny URL calm Civic zoo. I hope to be interesting. Thanks Thank you and I have a small report I also want to Make sure to announce my constituent meeting well in advance. It is not this Saturday. It is next Saturday April 19th And it will be here right down the hall in the McCloskey room at 11 from 11 to 12 And then also this Saturday in addition to a councilmember Piedmont Smith's constituent meeting There's actually the Indiana Democratic Party has organized a people's town hall here in City Hall from 10 to 1130 and there will be various Democratic officials there having that town hall. So that is the second thing that I wanted to share and then this transitions us into our discussion tonight, so We have a little community survey which is linked to a QR code that I believe our council attorney is going to get up on the screen That is a very simple survey Of what we are starting to talk about tonight, which is budget outcome areas and budget outcomes We are shifting to outcome based budgeting and so part of the idea with that is to prioritize our outcomes What kind of outcomes do we want so before we ever have any discussion about it? I want members of the public to take this little survey and take like three four minutes. It is literally Your top five Outcome areas without any other additional information right now in terms of what any of that means or What might fit into those areas and it's you can this is what this is what happens when you have a teacher in charge Of things is the teacher gives you a pretest. So this is like a pretest. I'm sorry, not really though So This is the moment where council pauses for just a second to give the public just a minute to do that survey while Council members can also think about that because we had a whole little budget worksheet that we were supposed to work on And hopefully we will be prepared for that conversation next Take this little survey that's probably okay, too, but we're gonna talk about it. So So I'm sorry what no That that would have been that would have been fun if I thought of that earlier I For for Just to review the process by which we're going to Manage this year's budget conversations for those of you who maybe were not We're not at the meeting last week tonight's discussion sort of starts off This process of prioritization of council and so we're going to have a conversation tonight Next week at the Fiscal Committee meeting the Fiscal Committee is charged with kind of synthesizing the conversation tonight and building a priority lists like like a priority, oh my gosh a Prioritized list of council budget priorities and Then we will come back as a full council on the 30th to Vote on that list from the Fiscal Committee Basically, it'll be a test to see if the Fiscal Committee managed to synthesize the conversation. Well So so this is just the beginning of the conversation and so at the Fiscal Committee meeting next week there will certainly be the results of this And I appreciate the the seven responses that have come in so far Eight responses that have come in so far fantastic That will be open I'll leave it open for a little while longer, but I really did want to kind of get like a pre look from people and I kind of do expect that things might might change after hearing discussion and after this whole process tonight, but I Think That we're gonna move on right now To our actual conversation. So in terms of council members and how we're gonna facilitate this today We're gonna start with that conversation of step one Choosing and defining outcome areas with everybody being able to kind of Talk about their top one or two or three and the reasons why they chose those those outcome areas I'm hoping that that takes I believe oh, I forgot to write my times down on my cheat sheet here I believe that that was 20 to 30 minutes set aside for that part And then we're gonna move on to part two, which is facilitating discussions of specific budget interest or items Okay, so specific things that council members go. Yes, I definitely want that in and then we're kind of gonna have a break slash community engagement activity so if you're in chambers, you'll notice that there's some big sheets of paper there over on the side and on those sheets of paper are the 12 items that were on that survey and that were in the packet as examples of outcome areas So our task for the community and council members to during that break is to think of a specific program activity Something that the city does that you personally just think is really really valuable or is really important It can be something really big or it can be you know, something really small Write it on a post-it note and then stick it under whichever particular area. It is that you think it fits under after that we're going to Council's gonna come back together and have the discussion of step to the broad goals and the kind of specific measurable outcomes that we think That we've thought of already then we'll have a period of general public comment around the budget items and That will essentially be our meeting. Okay Does anybody have any questions about what we're doing here tonight before we start? Great so who wants to start by telling me or us their Top one or two or three outcome areas Yeah, say the bullets you picked say why you picked them like order them if you can like I know like I personally kind of Have a number one and a number one a and one B and then a number two and a number three So, I don't know how everybody else did it. But yeah sharing those things and the wise Who wants to start or do I need to just like go down the list that? All right, go ahead councilmember Rosenberger What I put on the list on the QR code I'm just looking at the worksheet that I filled out And you're looking you're asking us about the number step one choose or define outcome areas. Yes. So my top three I think were affordable housing and homelessness transportation and mobility and public safety, I guess I would say I chose those in general because I think they are the areas where things are in crisis and I think they are the areas where we have the ability via our code and as councilmembers to make the most impact In terms like, you know the work we're legally allowed to do here Okay, I want to put a hat or put a I Think I want to ask you said those are the areas where you think council members can have the most impact and I'm not sure if right now I want to have that specific discussion, but maybe in a little bit I want to know what specific impact do you think council members can have in those areas? Who's next Councilmember Piedmont Smith So I had I was also thinking of what the most dire needs of our community are and So I had affordable housing homelessness Then I had Health and Human Services thinking mostly of mental health care and substance use disorder treatment and Then I had public safety which is of course those three are all tied together as well Now equity was one item in the list But I I have a hard time thinking of that as a separate thing I think that that should be interwoven with all the other goals Great who wants to go next Councilmember sorry, I Think to me one of the I think one of the one of the things that's maybe not Directly reflected often our budget is maybe the way I was I was thinking about it But I'm economic health and jobs is something that You know, I'd like to see us Prioritizing was probably I think has a lot of downstream Effects on a lot of other things affordable housing Probably, you know 1a or or 2 And neighborhood livability and social health. That's why I said it's three I was just say sort of maybe to also maybe I don't know be provocative or open it up for a further conversation as well that the I Think there's some discussion about whether these I mean, I think these are interesting Suggestions of the categories and like, you know, maybe there's some overlap with some of them as well, you know And you know, obviously helped to help had had a hand in and making this list, right? but I but I think it's an interesting question of Even like what we might define as our buckets I think there's a really good start there, but I think there's some overlap. I think as councilmember Piedmont Smith Mentioned as well Yeah, those those probably mine. I think sort of my my one one star is economic health and jobs Affordable housing and then neighborhood livability and social health which to me sort of involves transportation and public safety and things like that as well Great thank you I'll just say my number one priority is affordable housing and I think that a lot of these categories tie into each other and sometimes if taking care of one Some of the other things will be taken care of as well For example public safety. We know that when people have the resources that they need crime goes down stuff like that, and so I think everything is pretty intertwined, but Making sure that everyone has an affordable place to live and then I would say to a and to be our transportation mobility and Neighborhood livability and social health. I think they all tie in together as to what like a healthy successful life Looks like Thank you who's next down here at the other end Councilor Barallo sure I I picked five actually And then prioritize them, but I couldn't I could winnow it down to three that would where I could apply specific budget Well, and some are more related to policy directions than actual expenditures, but public safety housing economic development equity health and human services sort of together on that one and Environment sustainability Great thank you next Comes member Flaherty Like my colleagues I would say, you know, a lot of these topics are intersectional So it feels a bit arbitrary to prioritize them. I think they're all important but In naming a few I think I would focus on Where we're struggling the most and have the most need for making change from where we are now Number one for me would be transportation and mobility Specifically, we've adopted a goal of zero deaths and serious injuries in our streets We have had hundreds and hundreds of serious injuries in our streets and quite a few deaths in the last five years I would also call that the biggest public safety problem we have So pretty similar Affordable housing and homelessness and then equity and would just again Yeah echo that those are those are like Transportation equities about how we improve safety for marginalized users of our roadways things like that Changes to our zoning code and how we increase housing supply more diverse housing types housing affordability, etc. That's a housing equity issue Etc, but I think equity for me is and I guess if I have to name the three it's transportation mobility affordable housing and homelessness and equity and then last note is just that Again sustainability and action on climate implement our climate action plan is deeply intersectional with those as well. Thank you Councilmember sorry, what's your question? Yeah, I'm just reflecting as well. I think I agree with councilmember Flaherty and Thought and in terms of thought experiment one thing that I'm thinking a lot about is I Think we might all prioritize You know affordable housing as an example, but we don't see that often reflected in our budget per se and I think you know Maybe the the levers that we have for that are perhaps more policy-based or less Let's budgetary but but I'm interested in sort of thinking thinking through that too which is like, you know, what where are the things that we can have I think to the to the question of like what are our prior I like the like what are the The the word that you used our big pain points our emergency areas, right but it's like What what can we do in those spaces with with money and so I maybe was thinking about this too from the perspective of You know, which of these areas can the city make big moves in putting influxes of cash into? Yeah, that's an interesting thing to differentiate Councilmember rough do you want to go or do you want me to go? You know, I agree with everybody's very hard to rank these I didn't really have a success doing it and they are so inner You know, they're also interconnected. I'm at like councilman Flaherty's comment and councilmember sorry I think also suggested look, you know, we're looking at the ones the areas where We've come up shortest and in other words if they're all relatively equally important but some we may be doing better than other areas, which is Where we would want to start to maybe focus on where we can make the biggest difference. I think as customer 30 suggested but to me And I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but this this idea the high-performing government, right? That's the delivery of government services and that's what really is fundamentally about so I You know a lot of this falls under to me this idea of a high-performing government, that's what that's what people look to us for and That's what? You know business looks to have secure Something that can rely on a high-performing government to make investment in the community And so looking at areas where maybe we're not as high-performing Whether it's things like street maintenance of the streets, you know, I'm interested in Possibly the idea of bringing back the leaf pickup program for example Sort of basic some basic services. Anyway, that that was my only real comment. So thank you for giving me an opportunity Thanks, I would like to put a pin in the leaf pickup thing too because that should be under a specific budget item Interest in the part two of the discussion. So I want to make sure that that gets put under there I'll go ahead and share mine if I can find them So I also thought that they were really Intersectional of course and I kind of put my number one as neighborhood livability and social health kind of feeling like if people are doing well and There's livability and general social health then That will start a ripple effect through lots of other things and so kind of like a 1 1a and a 1b under that is affordable housing and public safety because if we really want people if we want neighborhoods to be livable and we want people to be socially mentally healthy then They need to have a place to live and they need to feel safe in that place And that encompasses I think both things like fire and police response, but also of councilmember Flaherty you mentioned the I think it was you transportation related or maybe it was councilmember Rosenberger I Can't remember who mentioned it first now Just in terms of safety and security. It's not all about policing or fire protection. It's also about Feeling safe to like go for a walk that you're not gonna get hit by a car or you know Drive a car and you're not gonna get into an accident because people are driving well, so and the roads are designed nicely. Um, and so then if that was my number one with those two little caveats then my number two was transportation and mobility partly because of how that ties into public safety and Livability in terms of being able to get to where you need to go and then number three was economic health and jobs kind of For what councilmember Asari said in terms of that trickle-down effect of like if people have jobs Then they're more likely to be able to you know, go to the doctor and access other pieces of the community and have stable housing and that kind of thing So I Think right now just to help out the Fiscal Committee What did people here were were areas that we had in common if we had to do a top three for all of council what did council members here that That we all had in common I'm gonna make you guys think so the Fiscal Committee has some help next week Housing Does everybody agree with that Yes, does anybody not agree with that I don't think that I necessarily said to rank but just try to do like three that that everybody kind of agreed with I neglected to mention one that I added myself. Can I just throw this out? Yeah basic infrastructure. That is Road paving stormwater sidewalks thinks that it's up to us to deliver to the to the public But I know I'm fine with housing being as one of the top priorities We can talk about what type of housing later Yeah, I also I want to put a pin in the basic infrastructure too Because I kind of thought of that under specific budget things in terms of Maintenance, so let's make sure that that gets brought up again, too. So generally speaking though We agree that housing should go Maybe on the list. I do want to ask though what we think in terms of What was mentioned already that difference between like Investing dollars versus like legislated legislation and If we could talk about that in context of housing maybe for just a minute in terms of like and I also think maybe it's helpful to To councilman Flaherty's point that I mean at the moment. This is like we said, I mean, it's a little arbitrary prioritizing them per se I mean as And councilman Rosenberger was just saying some good things. You should say them feel welcome to but the you know, maybe we want to cycle back to the question of Ranking and prioritization as we talked through about specific things. We want to see in the budget pertinent to this Because I mean to your point it's like if there are things we can fund for to improve affordable housing And that is our priority already in the general sense. It's there's like there's a conversation of like what our general priorities Comprehensive plans and things like that. But then there's also the question of like what's our priority for this budget specifically? Comes Barbara Rosenberger, did you want to share something? I was just there was a question on this end that about How could we fund afford like what could we fund in terms of affordable housing and housing affordability? So I just like shot out some ideas, but I don't know that it's time, you know Like one example was just Like incentivizing like some kind of program like down payment assistance but for small developers who are maybe wanting to build like 10 unit apartment buildings or you know a 10 unit apartment building that is affordable and so like incentivizing The types of housing we want to see that we're not seeing because it's not financially feasible basically right now Of course, the other part would be opening that up in the UDO so that people can build them as well You Talked you have something down. Yeah, I mean I mean for I mean for that matter though I think what's pertinent to a lot of recent conversation that we've had it's that you know at the end of At the end of last budget session when planning was here the conversation Directly was are we going to what what what are we doing in this budget to move towards a form-based UDO? And they said well, we'll put that in next year's budget As as as an example of another thing we can find there should be prioritized if if that's the direction we're trying to take Other thoughts on housing as something that we had in common Councilmember all oh Yes, I think Housing generally or an agreement type of housing. I think maybe we differ. I don't know But that's something we need to discuss some of its policy related I've wondered for a long time a lot of this owner occupied potential single-family homes Are now occupied by Airbnb something to the order of 900. I know West Lafayette has Code that prohibits or caps it at least I don't know if that's possible still I think You know, we're apartment rich community, but we're a owner occupied poor community so the type of housing really does matter and I'm interested in all types that could be owner occupied and I'm certainly versed to Policy that would remove Affordable Single-family or owner occupied homes from the market. So these there's more to say I mean in terms of investment I would be interested in bonding for a land bank in order to Provide space that we could dictate the type of housing that we need for the community things like that It's been discussed before Councilman Flaherty's mentioned it. So I think there are points of agreement. There are points of difference But I think I've said enough so As a follow-up to that, how does that relate to the summit land trust or are you kind of talking about types of things? Like the summit land trust as being something That you would be interested in You said that you were interested in bonding for a land bank And my follow-up question to that was like how is that like or different from the summit land trust? and so is it really that you're like interested in in Providing more support to that land trust movement. Yes, I think that would be one one way to go I don't know exactly what types of control that we actually have. I think I need to Review that but the point is is that the market doesn't seem to be delivering the the type of housing that is in demand and the housing study of 2019 Indicated that that's what people wanted was to purchase and build equity in homes rather than rent because people are trapped in a rent trap and Then there's much more to say about rental housing in this community, too Whether or not these large structures are even fully occupied I understand that they're not Anyhow, so sorry to Terry on that But I do think I mean, I'm sorry go for it like It's it's this tension here. I think that's getting at the the main point I mean if the if the core question is what is it that we want to see reflected in this budget? In terms of areas that we'd really like to see funded I Feel like a lot of yeah I mean the most most a lot of those things are in the policy realm, right and so How do we hone out like how do we tease out the things that we actually want to get funded in each of these areas? So anybody else have anything that they want to add about housing as an area of commonality councilmember Piedmont Smith Well, I just don't want to leave out the other part of that which is homelessness housing and homelessness, I mean, I guess there's there's been a long long-standing tension between Addressing homeless people helping people who are unhoused now and using funds for that versus building solutions so that eventually we'll have Hardly any unhoused people at all And I think both are important I mean I But I I don't want to lose sight of you know, we need to make sure nobody dies homeless on our streets I Do think it might be worth splitting those two just because they do require two very different things and Funding for one looks very different than funding for the other even if they are intertwined Well as a follow-up on that I Mean we have it as affordable housing and homelessness and even if we split those then it's affordable housing Which is maybe different from just housing So is it that we have housing in common or that we have affordable housing in common Well, right You Well that that may come out in further Talking about what? Councilmember Osari said as far as where do we actually want to spend money in 2026? So that might be teased out a little more when we get to that level Members Oh, I'll just point out that in different community engagement events with Different organizations who work with who work closely with the unhoused a lot of what we've talked about is that four to eight hundred dollar a month gap that's really missing in the zero to four hundred as well and There are units available that are just going for way higher than then Really the majority of people in Bloomington can afford and so I would say it's not a housing problem It is an affordable housing problem Other thoughts on the housing that we had in common All right, what else did anybody hear that there was also I think transportation came up in almost all of our And what do we call it transportation and mobility? All right, does everybody agree or does anybody disagree about putting transportation and mobility as a priority Can I have a question I ask a question so are we ranking all of those Are they all going to be prioritized to some degree or are we just choosing a subset? How is this? I think right now. This is kind of a thought exercise And I would actually suggest on that point like maybe we should move on and cycle back to the question of you know with because I think when we talk about specifics as Councilmember Piedmont Smith said I think it will help it will help tease out it'll answer for itself this question. I Agree, I think we may have different things in mind regarding these topics and By informing each other one might rise above another or fall relative to each other So maybe we should proceed in that way So we want to move on to the next stage in my Facilitation which is discussion of specific budget items Because that does I mean it it could play in We've already kind of been talking about that a little bit Well, if we do that, why don't we Stick with the transportation and mobility the council members already cited that we have in common and Does anybody have any specific budget items that they were interested in related to transportation and mobility? Downtown circulator. I would like to see us fund a downtown circulator Okay All right, so we have a downtown circulator on the On the list of things that people want to fund Related to transportation. Are there other things related to transportation? I'll say this and I mean I know that I mean that's open up to this conversation. We have a transportation plan. So, you know Let's how about how about transportation plan be in the budget? Did anybody Does anybody want to cite specific pieces of the transportation plan that they want to councilmember Flaherty? Yeah a Number of these areas we're not starting from whole cloth. We do have plans policies goals in place already The transportation plan and the safety action plan under safe streets for all both should be guiding transportation decision-making In implementation we had a high priority network that we have not finished building out the timeline for which ends this year So we did relatively well, maybe 70 80 percent but failed to fully implement the priority network Established in the transportation plan so continuing to fund that and or updating that and funding an update that might be More informed by the safe streets for all safety action plan would be one approach we've also chronically underfunded sidewalks for I don't know decades and Pushed for more funding secured a very small amount of increased funding this year in the council sidewalk budget Sidewalk committee budget of 500k that's still almost nothing relative to the needs and relative to what our stated values and goals are So I think we need to see considerable increases in funding across it. I think of it in multiple buckets This is kind of evolved over time. I think of sidewalks I think of multi-use paths which serve both pedestrians and wheeled mobility users I think of protected bicycle infrastructure and increasingly I've been thinking about intersection treatments as well. So shorter crossing distances Accessibility curb ramps. Those are kind of distinct from any of those other buckets So again multi-use path protective bicycle infrastructure sidewalks and intersections and we really need Annual capital funding for these things. I mean we had a discussion last year about You know bonding for capital expenditures, which is which is all well and good, but when it's a recurring need and it's it's needed annually More or less in perpetuity or at least for decades before we're gonna, you know dig ourselves out of the hole Or possibly achieve our vision zero goals I think the general budget is a perfectly appropriate place for for this type of capital expenditure That's going to be recurring it would allow a level of planning and implementation that we simply haven't been able to achieve I Mean, we'll see what's possible. I think eight million dollars is a figure that is reasonable relative to the ambition and goals We have again to eliminate deaths on our streets and You know relative to the progress we've been able to make so far I tried to get into the numbers a little bit last year with the city engineer and actually assess the capital outlay Remaining to implement some of these things on the timelines We said we were going to and then estimating what the local match would need to be Assuming we're gonna be leveraging MPO dollars and everything else that we do to the maximum, you know ability to The maximum we can max we can So I don't know those are those are some of the things informing my thinking on it The different categories of things we need to be investing in for a complete streets approach, which is what our city policy is and to Essentially make progress on our vision zero goal Like that is going to require a pretty radical shift in how we think about and fund infrastructure if we're serious about it Second Can I ask you a follow-up on that real quick you threw out that eight million dollar number Is that what you think probably needs to be spent like per year right now on that kind of infrastructure? like generally speaking in an ongoing way or until we catch up or Was that just kind of a no, I think I mentioned four buckets You could think of that as maybe approximately two million two million in each bucket That would maybe equate to something like 60/40 in favor of Pedestrians over wheeled mobility users in terms of like who's the primary beneficiary in each of those different buckets Two million would be four times the the council sidewalk budget right now for sidewalks specifically for instance It would allow us to actually start addressing things like the South Walnut Street Pike Missing sidewalk where a pedestrian was killed a couple years ago Lots of other sidewalk gaps like that in the community that we are not making progress on And so we need to plan to coordinate the action But yes, I think that's like a reasonable like achievable level. We could certainly spend more There's plenty more to you know to be done But I think if you sustain that level of investment over a couple of decades We would see real transformative change That's my brother I Think councilmember Rosenberger had her I was just gonna get a little more nitty-gritty and just how the climate action plan is and you can just it's really I mean I think it's quite fun and exciting to read our goals because when we look at the transportation part of the climate action plan Just like it's you know Increased transit utilization by ten percent over 2018 by 2030 increased shared mobility like carpooling by three percent of work commutes Encouraged density and increased housing options and affordability with the goal of increasing gross density by three percent of 2018 values That one isn't about cars. It's about housing obviously But I'm just saying like so we have all these right we have these goals that it's great that we don't like reinvent any wheels unintended because Reduce reduce single occupancy automobile used by eight percent of 2018 values, right? So all these climate action plan goals are also just so intertwined with our transportation Outcome in itself, you know and safe streets for all I also to some degree want to put a pin in that too Or just note that that also relates to like the step three of specific outcomes of measurable results Because all of those things are also measurable results that you know, we want to see that come out of those plans And now the climate action plan is kind of full of those Yeah, I wanted to mention that and these are interconnected as we said but when I was thinking of an ask this year for basic infrastructure and Mayor Thompson, I think alluded to it during the state of the city It was to pave neglected streets I Mean it doesn't do a bicyclist any good to hit a pothole. In fact, they're probably gonna be far more damaged than a car hitting a pothole. Well that might break you break an axle I'm aware. I've been around long enough to know that I've asked many many times public works What is the street paving schedule and I've been variably told that it's a 12-day paving schedule And I've been variably told that it's a 20-year cycle however, I know I've been here long enough to know that there are streets that haven't been paved in 40 years and They're crumbling and yet, you know, I hate to beat this horse But if a greenway goes in where there's crumbling Street I I think that that sends the wrong signal Especially one that's not necessary to the public and that is that Our priorities are scrambled. So that's this is one of my top I think Requests this year of the mayor of the administration is The maintenance of our streets and can we get on it? Can we can we repair the the ones that are most affected and Crumbling and then can we get on a 20-year cycle? Is that conceivable in and have some dedicated fund for that purpose? So it doesn't get neglected in the future Thank you councilmember Piedmont Smith, I saw your hand up earlier does she wanna Okay Go for it comment councilmember Ruff I Wanted I appreciate that councilmember Flaherty's, you know obviously spent some time on the numbers and Coming up come out with some estimates of what? Could oh the numbers of what the cost would be to increase progress in the areas of transportation that That he was talking about my question is for councilmember Flaherty because I'm interested in Might be a relative to the cost of the actual capital investment. It might not be As significant, but do you envision? additional staffing in planning transportation and engineering would be necessary to Maintain sort of a have a year after year increase in dedicated Investment and progress in construction and development of the of the transportation that you see would it would probably require additional folks Madam president Good question. I met with city engineering agency board this morning for a good period of time talking about this and some other things And we talked about that specific question. I think it's possible. Yes I think cities that have taken their vision zero goal seriously tend to have vision zero positions I a good friend of mine is the lead vision zero engineer for the city of Chicago Formally city Seattle before that smaller communities also have these positions though And so yeah, maybe something like that in the planning department ultimately would be needed and then not on the engineering side There are constraints that we run into relative to the ability to manage projects. Some of that can be managed by Contracting out the projects, but they're still require a level of oversight and project management that I think can be a factor I Know they're trying to hire right now another traffic engineer position that should help with some of that And I've had some other restructuring in the department to help Reformulate positions and have them better suited to do that type of management. So I think some of that's already in motion. I think Also, yes, it's possible. This would warrant a position or two Additionally possibly one in each department If we're able to make those kind of commitments You Thank you other Specific funding proposals related to transportation before we move on to like other specific funding things Okay Other specific funding things like at all like wait I asked somebody to put a pin in something earlier and I don't remember what it was Was it was it maybe it was councilmember Rallo with the maintenance and that already got in here Yeah, you did We already talked about yours a little bit, yeah Other specific councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I mean we've talked about housing as an overall issue that we all agree is important in one way or another So I had I had an idea more specific idea for for that topic and that is To fund a housing summit to discuss strategies with builders and funders of affordable housing So that would be the cost of the event the staff time the follow-up possibly Consultant to Either run such a summit or follow up with some kind of action plan But I think that's long overdue. I mean we've had housing studies, but have we ever actually invited people who build housing to these things? Who fund affordable housing? I think that would be a great first step I also think that we should maybe look into funding a potential change to the UDO. I've heard that there are some hesitancies in terms of Pursuing different UDO changes because it's so expensive and I think if we went into the next year knowing that like this is a priority For us that maybe some of those hesitancies would Be alleviated Yeah, I would like to concur with that I said it since last year But also I mean it has played into decisions that we've made in the last several weeks even that that the Potential of that happening. So I would be like absolutely. I would very much want to see that in the in the budget What kind of funding do you think is needed for UDO changes? I mean last year last year, I think if somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think director Hiddle said something to the extent of $300,000 To do what exactly I think to get consultants to actually start the the process instead of you know instead of this like changing around the edges, but actually Starting okay, so it's like the full sort of yeah proposal. Okay, I Don't think that sort of ends in one year, but it to start that process. I think that Okay, um, I want to thank the Community member who just texted me and reminded me that leaf pickup was what a pin got put in earlier from councilmember ruff Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I mean I think that The idea of overhauling the UDO Has some merit I Think for the benefit of the public it and maybe for for colleagues as well I would like to hear what you mean by that and why that's going to be helpful I can happily I mean, I mean the in short I think that we we need a form-based UDO rather than a Euclidean one, so I would be Writing a form-based UDO Okay, sure for the benefit of the public so Euclidean UDO starts with the you know, there's three elements to planning right land use Management and and then form form-based UDO starts with form then does management then does land use it's and you know to the question of why it's perhaps I mean one it's I mean, it's the direction that that cities are moving in but I think the the main reason why to say succinctly is that it allows us to To deal with I think the sort of snake of Bloomington development, which is things like permitting the feedback that we've got from a lot of developers I'm into the point of wanting to do a summit Is that is that even though is it basically that our rules are quite complex here? It's difficult to do business here So it makes it a lot easier for developers makes it a lot easier for people wanting to be in the community but it also then allows us the capabilities of having the provisions to Keep certain characteristics that people might want while also allowing more housing to be built If I may just follow up I think that that would go well with a housing summit where we would have a housing summit first and we would invite input from people who build housing and people in the community who have concerns as well as expertise in this area and that May well lead us to Some concrete things we would want to see in a UDO revision. I totally agree would agree. Yeah As a follow-up Councilmember, sorry if you spoken with our planning department one-on-one about that concept Yes, and and also publicly in these meetings. Yes All right other specific Budget lines comes member Flaherty. Thank you Yeah, I want to develop on the same thread I'd written in my list of specific proposals here 200 to 400,000 For contract work to create a plan to change the Unified Development Ordinance in line with the existing city policies Seeking to increase housing supply diversity of housing types and housing affordability both subsidized and market rate I think that could be a form-based code change I think getting clarity on that point and the buy-in from the administration is critical because my recollection is that I've been advocating a reform-based code for at least eight years I think it was the approach we should have taken in 2019 when we updated the UDO We did not we have kind of a hybrid. We have some form-based elements, but it's still highly segregated by uses My understanding from director Hittle when he spoke on this last year was that It felt early or premature relative to the age of the UDO and when that was done to make a large switch to a form-based code And that that might be like five plus years out yet That's a really important thing to nail down with specificity specifically from the mayor and in writing if possible because there's been a lot of wiggle room and like kind of like Shifting on what I've heard from the administration over time on some of these things um Various changes we've looked at worked with staff staff on that staff understands is good policy experts Understand our good policy that they fully supported are things like adjusting lot size minimums to accord with existing form of neighborhoods existing adjusting setbacks to align with existing form of neighborhoods to have that control over the type of building that Style of development what it looks like But at the same time to enable more modest housing to be built specifically in that case It would probably enable a lot of single-family owner occupied housing But those are form-based changes that we can make and make progress on In interim steps forward in the absence of a full-on commitment to an overhaul of the UDO starting next year and like Repeatedly my understanding from staff was that we are not ready for that overhaul now We're hearing something different. And so I think getting clarity on that's really quite critical as we talk about what budget expenditures could look like I mean so so in the question and answers for for the budget I wrote I'm intrigued by the possibility of moving towards a form-based code in the future Could you elaborate on the timeline the potential cost associated with this shift how this transition improve the housing development outcomes? And the answer was a transition to a true post Euclidean form-based code would require a full overhaul of the UDO That would involve a relatively specialized ordinance rewrite and they said 300 to 500 K And a timeline of approximately 12 to 24 months. I mean, so this is in writing Right, but but I agree, but but I agree I mean to the point I very much agree with what councilmember Flaherty is saying that that as as Pertains to the budget and then and then the follow-on policy that that we may want to pursue or not pursue I think that that Just echoing that comment that I think the the conversation has to be had and this is the time where we get to have this Is is that actually a commitment and that's why we put money towards it, right? So so that's the point that I'm making is that I mean if we're gonna put money towards it so that it happens Is the way that I would view that? Actually ask a clarifying question from what yeah, sorry just quoted the 12 to 24 month timeline that all makes sense But did you did it say a starting time like when we would implement that or was that not part and if you recall? When during during the meeting that was one of I mean you have no reason to recall this, right? I mean we asked quadrillion questions over, you know two weeks But I asked I asked during the meeting to director Hiddle that question specifically and and the answer was That we expect to put this in the budget for next year. So So, I mean they're different, but yeah getting clarity on this point would be helpful. Thank you I've had a more recent conversation with him about that and I think the five-year timeline at least is is includes things like I think the one to two year timeline is literally like writing it as opposed to all of the public input and all of the community understanding and greater education about what form-based code is and how it's different from what we have now and That I think the actual writing of it is probably the easy part and the hard part is all of that other stuff That is a little bit grayer And would probably cost more in time than it would in money exactly But that's why I asked earlier if you had talked to him about that directly recently because I've talked to him about that within the last Yeah But I do think I do think as as pertains to the budget, right? I mean the and and you know this tension that we're walking between Policy changes and other priorities that we might have versus budgetary priorities I think that councilmember Flaherty's question is the guiding question and I think that the answer to that determines All of the answers to some of these other things that we're discussing All right councilmember as murder Thanks, I too would love to see a form-based code the idea of having a restaurant that looks like a house next door to my house Is a dream I would say So I don't have to cook things all the time and it smells good all the time in my backyard So that's very exciting From recent conversations. I also have had with director Hiddle. I Was told kind of like a four to five to ten year timeline, which ten seems not not right but four to five and then also that in that in those five years that also like making updates to our current UDO our Steps in the direction of a form-based code too. So as we allow more options in our zones that is getting people more ready for an entire form-based code because I Think most people out there don't know what a form-based code is, which is you know, why why should anyone and I? Think there will be of course like some major pushback about the ideas of like what could go in your neighborhood If it looks like what is next door to it will be startling to some people But so just a note to still encourage and say what I said in the beginning To some of you that I want both and I want a form-based code and I want to make Immediate changes to our UDO to help our housing supply problem Could I say another specific thing may be moving on to more things on the list? Hang on to that just a second though because comes from repeat month Smith Did you have a specific budget thing or did you want to add something on to the UDO conversation? I Had another budget thing relating to housing. Okay, great then Councilmember Piedmont Smith, why don't you go with that and then we'll come back to you well We have to recognize that the federal landscape and support for affordable housing from the federal government is very different this year as it Than it was in the past and we have some very important Programs that are already funded by HUD that the city runs like homeowner repair programs Individual rental assistance down payment assistance. These are all going to face cuts from the federal government And I think we need to spend some local money to keep these programs going Because they keep people in their in their current affordable housing So I'd like to see money Go towards that Great. Thank you Councilmember sorry, what was your on the on the train of housing? The question of permitting in this last year's budget we put money towards updated software That could then and then we did that interlocal agreement all those good things with the county I'd like to see us fund and I'll just for the sake of calling it something like a Permitting concierge service or something like that or piloting something like that Also funding updates to web presence web tools web-based tools to facilitate the permitting process I think both for building for business creation You know for art installation you name it Okay Other specific budget things before we move on to our activity of what currently councilor Flaherty I Had two other things so four things total one was Just voicing support for Appropriate funding for the council office to function. Well, yep, you know I think we're working through Some potential reclassification of positions to allow us to competitively attract and retain staff, which has been a challenge as well as Potentially the need for outside council, you know on retainer for some issues We have unique questions unique needs as the city's legislative and fiscal body Sometimes there are interpretations from the corporation council that are very favorable to the opinion of the mayor But might be counter to the council's interests. We have a different Set of interests and a different need to explore some of those things Additionally, I think that type of funding need can extend into Other types of contracted support beyond legal potentially You know, I think fiscal Expertise has been mentioned previously again for for kind of consulting services or advisory services to the council as well as Even like public engagement support if we're going if we are going to try to lead processes where the mayor Doesn't want to or is choosing not to but it's a priority to the council if we want to do that Well, it we frankly can't do that with with the staffing we have and the expectations for council members without it being Simply unsustainable. So I think I Wrote 200k. I don't know what that actually looks like. Maybe that's a high peg for like what would be needed But I think it is important to evolve our budget to reflect that so that's one I can say the second thing or I can go for it. Go for the second thing. The second thing was Again, I put this at 200 to 400 K. Maybe it's high But to integrate and operationalize equity in the whole of city government Including with deep community collaboration, especially equity and justice focused organizations and groups and with council involvement Last year, we talked about the possibility of staffing for this. I've you know, and we've kind of discussed it in two places That was the budget Conversations in which the administration said well, no, we need to take stock. We're not gonna hire anybody. We want to take stock We agree. This is important. We're gonna look internally create a plan create a team, etc So that was the commitment at August of last year and then also the council's process committee looked at this I kind of led a survey review of leading cities and what they're doing as well as leading entities like the government alliance and racial equity and kind of there's a range of options from You know framework development and tool development to use in the legislative and policy development process budgeting, etc to staffing and resourcing to training You know that we commit to on an ongoing basis. So there's a variety of options Out there, but it was clear in that survey because I also looked at our city policies and plans That it's very scattershot. There's no unifying framework or holistic vision or even definitions of what types of equity or justice We're talking about it kind of barely appears in the in the comprehensive plan so I think if we're serious about those values and I think most of us are it takes again probably contracted support. We don't have To the extent that we do have staff expertise in house It's not their primary job that you know, they're running departments or doing other things and engage with the community So if we're serious about actually taking a whole of government approach to equity and policy Development community engagement, etc. I do think that will take a plan and dedicated support And that was my ballpark of what it could look like So that's my other item. Thank you Thank you Before we we're gonna move on to the activity now, but I realized that I haven't said mine Though it relates to some other things totally agree with councilmember Piedmont Smith about those direct grants and assistant programs that support residents I think they're really important and that we should figure out a way to fund those and if they're not going to be federally funded then Then we should see if we can do that somehow in-house and then I also agree with Councilmember Rallo about The maintenance stuff and I kind of have this question that that I need to ask our controller like how much money do we actually spend right now on annual maintenance and Kind of like just to like keep things going at this like basic level of infrastructure funding and then I Also think that we need to invest in a crosswalk plan because And I've talked with us in planning before they're not all maintained There's not actually a plan for like how often they get repainted and there's so many crosswalks all over town that you just can barely even see anymore and I've actually had constituents reach out about different locations that don't have crosswalks at all that maybe need them Because there is this implied thing like every corner in theory as a pedestrian you have the right to cross But I mean cars barely stop for crosswalks as it is. They're not gonna stop at corners that don't even have them And This to some degree leads us into This activity. So once again, I and I want council members to do it too if they want to Okay, there are post-it notes over on the council table If somebody over there could hold up a pack of post-it notes and there's some pens so if you are in chambers right now You get to get up and move around and I want you to think about programs activities Etc things that the city currently does right currently funds that matter to you personally That you utilize personally that that makes a big difference in your life or something that you have Utilize an example. I'll give is we are giving like rebates essentially right now For electric bicycles for residents and at the state of the city There was actually a recipient of one of those who stood up and was like this has changed my life So sometimes those little things change people's lives So I want you to write that program or that activity or whatever it is, you know, it could be a park program You could go coach basketball at Twin Lakes and You know that matters to you a lot and your family a lot so I want you to write that down on a post-it note and I want you to put it under the budget Outcome area as You know those those 12 areas that were defined earlier Okay now if you're on zoom right now and you also want to participate in this I Would like you to if you can type a chat message to the host Saying what your activity is and then in parentheses is what? What outcome area it belongs in so we're just gonna take maybe 10 15 minutes move around the room a little bit and think of some of those very specific things that the city currently does That really matters to you And so if you're on zoom and you chat those things those will all end up getting Recorded and for the person who earlier mentioned is there gonna be a record of this? This is also something that will end up at the fiscal committee meeting next week So thank you for that little break and move around and little bit of conversation and one of the things that I was thinking about as I was watching people in chambers put up post-it notes as I was reflecting on The places that didn't have any and reflecting on some Because the activity was supposed to be to think about things that the city already does that you like and that you support and that you really want to keep or increase funding to and one of the things that we Talked about earlier was that idea of? identifying places where That we think are important, but we are lacking in so that's that's kind of an interesting way to use this too It's not only to go like oh look at all the things that people love and the areas that we're doing well in but also What are some places that maybe we identified as important that don't? Don't have as much in them and how can we do better at that? So it's kind of a two-pronged activity So the last piece of our conversation tonight Before we go to public comment and so I want to go to public comment no later than 815 is talking about some of those big broad goals of vision or policy direction and then also some of those specific Outcomes and I am gonna note again that one of those specific outcomes that councilmember Rosenberger already kind of said was she was reading some very specific measurable outcomes from the from the climate action plan, and so I just want to note that that That We talked about that and Those are that needs to be a piece of what gets identified in terms of some of those specific outcomes from our specific plans, so Broad goals vision or policy direction Specific outcomes measurable results. I think whoever wants to speak to either or both of those things Councilmember Rallo I'll just drill down on a couple specific budget items and So one is public safety related and this is To provide adequate fire response to the southwest quadrant of Bloomington Since the 2002 growth policies plan we were to Build a fire station in that location We were Assured that we would have land from the summit development. So we have the land to do it But we will probably need to bond for that Fire station, but I think it's a high priority because the population has been growing Steadily and now it's going to explode in that area and already my understanding is that The fire department has difficulty Getting there with a response time that they would like And I should say to that part Extending into the county so So I think that's a that's a high priority for me Another is Yeah, so is that under broad goals then in terms of no, that's a specific budget item Or it's a specific budget. It's not going to be in the budget per se, but it should be Probably a bond that would be You know presented by the administration that we would okay. So you were adding something on to what we talked about earlier Yeah instead of yeah, I've covered the broad goals So I thought it would just hit a couple of the specific budget items. Can I mention another? Maybe two I Don't have to cover everything. Well, we We had already talked about those and and you hadn't said it at the time, but go ahead Yes, you just said specifics No, I said broad goals and then and then measurable outcomes like the specific measurable results All right. So but the broad goal is public safety the specific Request is for a bond for a southwest fire station along tap road somewhere there in that area Obviously the specific outcome it would be To to to ensure Response time Needed for that area and also anticipating another ten or twelve thousand people living in that area with the summit development I Regarding I kind of mashed these together the equity and health and human services as a broad goal in particularly as councilmember Piedmont Smith Described which is that we need to prepare for not only potentially economic dislocation of people But the lack of federal funding Which has already been cut year by year CDBG block grants have been falling year by year I put it on the remember I presented that a year or so ago so Understanding that that is coming. I think that we need to double Jack Hopkins Spending We're spending half a million now We should spend a million and that would just put us where we used to be about 20 years ago Frankly with federal and local social service spending And obviously the you know this so that outcome would be it reestablishes social service spending from the past and Then I'll just mention one last one Since it we haven't talked about it. Well, we talked a little bit about sustainability and climate change and so forth, but specific to Bloomington And this is an ever-growing problem Reducing invasive plants We have a code It's supposed to be followed The developers many of them some do many of them don't Maybe they put in something that's a native. They maybe it fails. They put in fountain grass and then it spreads everywhere So those are propagules. It spreads from into the county into the environment The only way that's going to be addressed is a specific budget item, which is to have higher one FTE in planning for non-native enforcement and education and Obviously the outcome would be That we would at least mitigate if not diminish The invasive I'll quit there Talk about many more things, but I Do want to say to all councilmembers if there's something that like you don't quite get to tonight because there's only so much time That we have this evening like please email that to myself and councilmember Piedmont Smith as a chair of the fiscal Committee so that then we can incorporate those comments next week councilmember Rosenberger This is gonna be anything right? Anything so I mean it's hard because again we have four Big plans with tons of goals and metrics for measurement in them I mean talking about climate action plan again. It's just really what I have on top right now. I Guess I'm thinking too about what we've talked about in the budget before so The this is the goal of increasing organics diversion by 40% of 2018 Values in our waste okay waste reduction. We don't even have a composting option for residents anymore We've never had it publicly a public service and now we don't have a private service, which I call it a very embarrassing thing There are all these like sub plans like things to do food scraps bag pilot Certification for businesses to go zero waste so some budget thoughts would be to stop subsidizing our trash pickup Because we do that. I think it's about a million a year and use this money to start composting Also look at a pay-as-you-throw program which helps people think more about what they're putting into their trash cans and whether or not they want to like consume less or put their can out less, right and That might mean upgrading our system I have no idea to keep track of each pickup because right now we do I don't know that we do that, but I think all of our bins do have scan tags on them That's a little thing Thank you others broad goals specific outcomes measurable results Councilmember councilmember, sorry One one thing that I'd love to see is and this sort of falls in a lot of categories is some some at least pilots around Food security So so I'll go through it with with that framework. I mean thinking About neighborhood livability and social health. I'd like to see some type of funding initiatives around community gardens mobile markets, perhaps meal delivery pantry partnerships type of things with specific outcomes for example of Increasing the number of households with access to fresh produce within walking distance by 25 percent That's an example Or reducing in food and security rates. I don't know if we actually are measuring that but In targeted neighborhoods like Crescent as an example by 15 percent or something like that I think similarly under I'll skip that one under like economic health You know thinking about like food business microgrants is something I'd be interested in piloting and Looking for example to increase the number of food based small businesses launched or expanded next year by X-percent, I think there's you know zero so increase would be maybe easier to measure Or in increased gross sales at local farmers market at the farmers market by 25 percent something like that And I have others in other categories, but you know just I know we're short on time Members do look I think it would be worth looking into how we could invest in how the city communicates With the rest of the community There are quite a lot of really great programs at the city that when I go out and I talk to my constituents Like they don't know about and there's only so much that services that aren't being utilized can do for our community so I think It would be worth putting real money behind that so that People could take advantage of the programs that we do currently have and then the programs that we've talked about pursuing Thank you Councilmember Flaherty sure I had a little bit of hard time grappling with with some aspects of this. I think I Support the idea of outcomes based budgeting and holding ourselves accountable to outcomes. I think it's been mentioned. I mean We do have a variety of city plans that were developed with input of hundreds of residents informed by expertise You know that set goals and outcomes I think sometimes those aren't always the best goals like our comprehensive plan doesn't really have like smart goals for instances of frameworks and Everything's not always like the most measurable. I think there's some improvement that could happen there. I'm a little wary of us like introducing new outcomes or new metrics Maybe if it's in the area where we don't have plans in place already, but it feels like I'm not sure Council members just sort of like throwing out their own ideas here. It's like I don't know there's limits to that and also like in a We're sort of broadly talking about a theory of change of some kind Another way to think about that It's like a logic model that traces inputs to outcomes and impact and there's steps in between you go from inputs Which is the resourcing to activities and outputs that come before outcomes and and it So I'm very familiar with those frameworks and like we're sort of missing the middle pieces here, which is basically policy policy development implementation Some level of outputs that might have indicators of their own that lead to outcomes. So like increased miles of sidewalk for instance might lead to other outcomes like increased, you know pedestrian mode share Additionally, the other thing I'm worried about is like the time scales of some of these things relative to like an annual budgeting cycle and so I Think we didn't do a great job necessarily in our comp plan of like tracking the most useful Indicators and in particular lead indicators not lag indicators So often we're measuring things on a lag that does that is too late to be actionable and kind of just like It's like did this happen or not? But what we really want to lead is sorry what we really want to measure. I think are the outputs and things that we produce That will that based on evidence from other places will lead to the outcomes that we're looking for and so I Don't know And then and if so, I think like that's like that's the framework I'm kind of bringing to this and it feels like we're I know we're just iterating on a process and kind of like learning our way forward through doing But those are two things that kind of concerned me about I guess like how we're approaching this is one like if it's too divorced from Existing city policy, which certainly had a lot more public input and buy in across branches of government here then then like what we're starting with this process and then second is kind of like Some of the some of the pieces that might be missing from the framework So that's not you know, those aren't suggested that I mean zero deaths in our streets or one that I mentioned earlier, right? Like we could talk about like increase in housing starts for certain types of housing You know that we'd like to see that our plans except so like there's there's progress to be made on this But I don't know this feels a little divorced for me from like existing policy and plans Sorry, I realize that's like not helpful it's just a reflection I think everything everything you just said is so helpful. And I think the very I mean That is I wish you know I kind of wish we had got to that point earlier in the conversation, right? Like I think that that's in my mind was the was the appropriate outcome of this conversation. It's that You know, I think the the real like let's talk about the outcomes We want with try to change this our budget process is to directly tie our Our spending and our policy that follows two things that we've already got a lot of public input to and and I think So I wholeheartedly I think second what councilmember Flaherty said, I think that Yeah, I think I think you hit the nail on the head with that. I agree Yeah, I would also say probably that a lot of the thing probably not all of the things we've talked about tonight but a lot of them Were really familiar sounding to me from things that I've read in the comp plan when I read it and just going like oh, yeah Like we said we wanted to do this thing. How much money is being invested in it right now? How much could we invest in it? And with some things I feel like even if we do invest Money in it like that's not necessarily the solution that it needs like it doesn't necessarily need money right now I need something different and so I think teasing those things apart could be useful generally speaking I'm not sure who I should go to right now because I had three people express interest in speaking so councilmember Ruff quick Your mics off the the high-performing government broad goal, you know so paying our city employees a commensurate On par with other Midwestern peer cities. I just don't see how we can deliver a high-performing government If we aren't paying to get hyper to keep high-performing Employees and you know the side benefit of that is we hope it would have a slight upward pressure on general wages in the city the better we pay a Fairly large employer like planning. So that's that's important to me. And then the last thing I'll say real quick is Be interesting to do this exercise Coming from the other perspective like everything we've talked about is going to require some investment It's there's the wish kind of a wish list. Well, we're gonna need to raise taxes or Cut reduce our investment in some other things. So we kind of interesting to have this kind of discussion about where do we think? We would invest less or we would put less into anyway, that's all. Thank you We have about two minutes before I want to go public comment councilmember Piedmont Smith This is the last five minutes have been extremely interesting what I wanted to mention From my list is something that we don't really have a community plan on and maybe we should I don't know I think it it is something that kind of you know follows from other Community values that have been stated but that's on the in the realm of public safety And so I had two desired outcomes related to that One was the increase the capacity of stride mobile community responder program to handle all nonviolent mental health emergency calls through central dispatch by the end of 2027 and then Following that decouple central dispatch from the BPD and trained dispatchers to send non-police Community responder units to address mental health emergencies as appropriate by the end of 2028 Great councilmember Rosenberger, did you have one last thing to say before we go to public comment? Okay Councilmember Allah Very briefly great discussion I When I was looking through priorities when I was looking at specific budget items, I was keeping in mind where's the money coming from and I'm very very reticent to increase the Edie lit in very uncertain times for people Because unfortunately, it's a regressive tax It seems to be the only thing available to us So I'm looking at very I Guess I was prioritizing in terms of maintenance public safety common good items that Really need attention as priorities. I mean certainly there's a lot of things that could be funded So anyway, that's something that we need to maybe curb our enthusiasm about some of these items Thank you With that let's go ahead and go to a period of public comment on Budget 2026 on how the city spends money on whatever people out there want to talk about in terms of budget So if you are in council chambers, you can make your way to the podium You can sign in state your name for the record and then you'll have three minutes If you're online you can raise your hand using the raise hand function or you can send a chat message to the host and we do have somebody here in chambers who would like to speak so When you're ready You can go ahead and state your name These things start a little earlier than I remember From everything that you guys have talked about tonight it sounds like Government performance and how you deliver services is the thing that matters most to you from the simple service of maintaining roadways to Really just anything housing is important and I feel like that's a separate issue entirely from people who are unhoused and You guys will touch on that later I imagine and hopefully I can be a little more engaged and I've been over the last 10 years going forward as the city transitions to a new age Whatever it should be called here Something that I have personally been affected by recently is something not many of you may be able to elaborate on As I drive uber part-time The city recently decided that it should seasonally have a permanent closure of the Kirkwood and corridors I think that's a fascinating idea and it has its place here However between the downtown and places of the university There's an issue with getting around to pick up The majority of the users are students, but I myself am also a user of uber on the weekends as it's a lot Wiser to not drink and drive But in my thinking Having been asked to not stop and wait for a rider at the back end of the spia building And having to navigate now the downtown Why could we not utilize some of the spaces with like bike lanes? bus stops to have an uber and Lyft Shared space so users can kind of have a common ground to come to you I think also as they utilize the lime scooters. I don't know if that's even what they are anymore around here I'd like to do those myself downtown Just don't let me do it in Nashville, Tennessee I Think as those things continue to gain popularity and frequent use both from residents and from students alike Especially the lower-income who may not May not get to use them every day Just putting those pieces together and In a safe spot. I know we lost someone a couple years ago using a scooter and again the the main street of town being Walnut Street is heavily trafficked over the weekends with uber and Lyft drivers alike and Sometimes it's hard for drivers who are just trying to get through to get by and it makes it very unsafe So maybe having like I don't know ten cars length of distance for drivers to be able to stop I pay insurance to be an uber driver to drive people around so they get to where they need to go safely and I kind of expect the same for my driver. So thank you Thank you for your comment are there other people in chambers who would wish to make a comment Go ahead and state your name for the record and you'll have three minutes Good evening, madam president. I'm gonna write my name and say good evening at the same time It's Christopher energy from the greater limited chamber of commerce I'm gonna get out of my main soapbox. I have been which is sort of personnel costs, but to reader it was Councilmember Rallo said that you know money is tight we're heading through what looks to be could be a recession coming in with decreased revenue and Decreased means of getting revenue with SP one and some other items that the state has before us I want to sort of piggyback on a couple things that were said. I think councilmember Rosenberger had the statement early which is where does council make the biggest difference and One of the things she says which I think was kind of a good one, which was housing Well housing and sort of the unhoused are huge issues. Those are big lifts and what council can do I think is to a varying degree is is limited but having sort of council actions that spur Economic development that spur investment from the from the private sector with its developers That's something important to look at and I think councilmember Flaherty mentioned quite a bit on what I Think was a good agreement with everyone and what does the city do? Well what it can do which is the mobility and transportation aspect I think that investment in sidewalks and some other areas within potholes and road maintenance is just the basic essential services of government We've talked about outcome based budgeting and I look back. I think that was I don't it was that 2021 with the the lit increase that was 19 million dollars What have what is the outcomes on that particular? Tax increasing sort of look at specifically that we had them in buckets and different things within the buckets and buckets within buckets So I think that would be a good place to sort of look at from you know, from point a to point B beginning and some of that and One thing that's come up a lot. We I did a parks focus group last week. Thank you Tim Street for that for putting that on and and one thing that from the group of business leaders We came up with which is a sort of overriding issue is asset management as parks has grown the need for upkeep on that is great What are we looking at on that and we have a lot of great wonderful, you know Banneker Center and all of these parks I sort of went on my high horse on turf fields at Winslow Field which are Get flooding just by looking at the forecast So we have a lot of work to do within that and that's not going into the Buzzkirk Theatre The Waldron Center all these wonderful city assets that just need upkeep. We're only as good as that Those things quickly deteriorate with deferred maintenance only causes, you know a ripple effect as far as that goes Housing summit really like that idea and my time all of a sudden is up. But thank you for your time Do we have anybody on zoom who would wish to make a comment? Okay, thank you, is there anybody else in chambers who would wish to make a comment Come on up, please sign in state your name for the record and you'll have three minutes My name is Gerard glom I teach economics at the University But I'm speaking on my own behalf when I go to social functions when people ask me what to do I say I'm an economist their response is supply and demand and then there's dead silence Evidently people think economics is very very boring Ever since January 20 economics has gone up in the excitement scale through the roof immigration cuts the Medicaid cuts the research misinformation about vaccines Communicable diseases all of those are exciting economic issues. The problem is there's a lot of misinformation bad information Silly formulas that are used to fund policy to justify policy So I guess my comments come under the hitting Performing government because I'm going to make something available to all of you for free You're all invited to Saturday afternoon 2 o'clock to come to the downtown library Professor Michael Hicks from Ball State will give a presentation on how terrorists influence jobs for Hoosiers I imagine you're part of Indiana Terrorists will have a big impact on this community. So all of you your staff to write a community is invited to learn about How tariffs might excellent influence the quality of our lives here in Bloomington, Monroe County in the rest of this state So again 2 o'clock downtown library auditorium Professor Michael Hicks from all state. I hope you can all be there Yeah, that was this Saturday Thank you for that comment next in chambers Please sign in state your name for the record and you have three minutes Steve Olin as a member of the Late lamented Parking Commission. One of the things that we had to do was try to identify Costs of parking across departments because even though there is now a parking services division there is the parking costs and revenues cut across multiple departments and so we asked for transaction level registers of Departmental budgets and there's an awful lot to learn in Doing so and I have to admit that as a council member doing regular business It never occurred to me that it was worth my time to look at literal every transaction in a department's Annual budget but it turned out that you can learn an awful lot from doing it So the first thing I'd like to encourage you all since we are talking about budgets here tonight is that you take adopt an apartment and ask the controller for every transaction they conducted in the last year and Just explore it with Excel You're going to learn a lot, but I would go further and say that I don't think that's enough I think that it's time that council think about literally auditing departments Part of the issue is that no matter what the esteem you hold a department head in or the the people of a department in They may be unaware that they could be doing things more efficiently You may be unaware that there is a department or a division that is wasting money But you have no way to know it except through the administration. And so I would suggest that you Seek to start putting money into you the council budget specifically to hire an outside auditor to work on behalf of the council to do an independent audit of departments over a period of time maybe not all at once, but You know like no matter what you're going to learn an awful lot from the audit An audit is not necessarily an effort to punish. It's a way to verify to understand to you Know to really dig into the details of a given department or division But I've heard enough just tonight in the various Areas that the council is concerned about that. I think that it's time that you think about Adding money for an independent auditor to work on behalf of council to analyze how the city is doing. Thank you Thank you, do we have anybody online who's raised their hand at this point Okay, looks like we have another comment or in chambers. Go ahead and sign in state your name for the record And then you'll have up to three minutes Hi, I'm Greg Alexander As you've heard me say we are missing sidewalks around the edge of the city pretty consistently you get about Quarter mile from the courthouse you start noticing little gaps and then you get a half mile You notice big gaps in a mile and the network becomes just a few choices That's not a coincidence providing basic city services to a low density population is not financially plausible They are in a city. They deserve basic city services, but aren't enough people living there to pay taxes to support things like sidewalks So, you know You get it from the other side too when you pay city staff you have to pay them a competitive wage But really you have to pay them enough to live here They have to be able to pay rent. They have to be able to pay a mortgage They have to imagine that they could stay and actually buy a house Housing is everything you do our wages are inflated because there isn't housing our tax burden is inflated because there isn't housing We need housing and then we can solve these financial problems But the life and death of cities is housing and without enough housing to sustain the tax burden that we have We're only going to be able to overtax people and under deliver. Thank you Thank you, is there anybody else in chambers who would like to make a comment about the budget money finances economics Did anybody end up raising their hand on zoom Great. Thank you. Welcome back to council then for just if anybody has any last comments on this that they want to add in for consideration at this point Councilmember Piedmont Smith I'm trying to wrap my head around how this discussion is Really outcome based budgeting So, I mean we all kind of set our ideas and our priorities and all that so Just kind of thinking out loud I heard a lot of Colleagues say we need to look at the city plans That already outline our goals and the outcomes we want to see so maybe that's one way to focus on outcomes, but other than that I've heard it as chair of the fiscal committee, I'm Envisioning it to be very difficult To pull from these diverse ideas up here Certain outcome priorities, so I just wanted to state that and see what people think Any responses to that Well, maybe it would be helpful to talk about what the rest of the process is I mean because this this is very early on and Earlier than we started last year as well. So what what is ahead in terms of? communication around Budget plans what happens next? Is the fiscal committee Gets together a week from now. I believe next Wednesday and has a discussion about trying to Prioritize the priorities so last year if you recall we had the budget advance meeting and we had these ideas thrown out and then we had a List of budget priorities that was given to the administration, but that list was not a prioritized list that list was was we can call it a randomized list and so this year there was I think most people most council members thought like well we should it would be more helpful to have a prioritized list of priorities so that then the Administration has greater understanding of what our priorities actually are and I personally kind of identified that as really Highly challenging from the beginning because we are as a body I think really diverse in a lot of ways in terms of how we of what our priorities are in terms of of Of how we should invest our money, so I guess I kind of as another member of the fiscal committee I kind of share that sentiment That like how does the fiscal committee even start trying to prioritize what are really different? Different inputs from all nine council members So but that's that's in theory what what we're trying to do is we're trying to have a little bit more If so So the the next meeting is of the fiscal committee and the goal of that meeting is for the fiscal committee to put together a sort of draft document of how we understand priorities to be what happens with that document my Let me ask three more questions. So then so then you can just answer at length, which is I think the point is that I think to Councilmember Piedmont Smith's point is that you know What other inputs do we need in order to move that process ahead? I think is the is the sort of guiding question here Yeah, I mean what happens to that like Prioritization list as it comes back to council at a special meeting on April 30th April 30th We have another deliberation session then and then it's a it's categorized as a special session Because we would have to actually vote on the list of priorities That's just for us and then after we have that kind of established Prioritization list then our next deliberative session in May is with the administration because in the meantime while we're trying to develop our priorities The administration is also developing their priorities. So then on the 14th of May it can be like, hey, these are council priorities These are mayor priorities. Where do they overlap? Where do they not overlap? How can we? Make all the things happen that people want to make happen So then so then the question I think to councilmember Puma Smith's point, I mean what what what input would be useful to you as the chair? To help move that process forward Because we can do that, you know, we can do that asynchronously We started talking about Points of agreement and we just talked about housing and then we talked about transportation. Well, we started to talk about transportation and mobility but there were a lot of other things mentioned, so I guess the I Don't know I don't even know Because like if I had to now, you know work with my three colleagues on the committee to prioritize I wouldn't know where to start Because I also know that there are probably things that colleagues didn't even mention because we didn't get to them, right? So So here's my plan on where to start and so my thought on where to start us is to consolidate notes and information basically and there are a couple of very nice volunteers in the audience today who helped take notes with this and so to receive those notes and and try to Put together what all the council members said into the different outcome areas and so my intention is to kind of do a bunch of preparation in terms of consolidation of what I heard tonight in preparation for the Fiscal Committee next week so that then the Information is already Consolidated even if the thoughts are really different and so that might help the Fiscal Committee next week That's my hope And to similarly take the survey data The community survey data just to be like what is it that people think is important? My colleagues to send Myself and councilmember Stossberg Your completed worksheets for tonight if you completed them And if you didn't complete them, I recommend you do or Do some substitute so that we have something from you because I know that we didn't all get to everything on the our list That would be helpful I wrote some things on my worksheet that were like See comprehensive plan or see climate action plan. I mean do you want me to like draw like specific outcomes from there that I plug into the worksheet or like I Mean, those are big plans obviously so it is In my opinion, I think that If I'm assuming that there's something say specific in the climate action plan or in the comp plan That you're looking at, you know a certain part of it and you're going we need to implement this part of it Is that a correct assumption? I Don't know I think Not exactly like I didn't that's not where I started So thinking about the inputs to go back to the transportation example and the different types of I mean It was guided by the transportation plan some of the infrastructure that we've said we want to build out It was guided by the safety action plan and some of the goals we've set for ourselves And the changes that will necessitate and the development of a sidewalk plan. So all those things are kind of happening and informing the input the requested input but as far as the outcomes I Think there's probably a bunch scattered across several plans that I could like pull in that sort of all support that Like it's not just one Like not just one plan not just one plan and not just one outcome. Yeah I don't know. Maybe I just need to go through the exercise to see what the limitations are like it's more granularity I think that right now we need to just do our best Yeah, and recognize that that what we're trying to do as a body and as a city is a transition to Outcome based budgeting and that it's it involves kind of a whole different mindset and a whole different like Formatting almost in terms of what we've seen before so it and and my understanding is that this is Kind of a I mean what councilmember sorry, this was your original like brainchild in some ways So what like two to three years? I think is what was kind of cited right originally in that Resolution in terms of a transition, so we're like This is really the first year that we've really tried to do this in a serious way So I guess my answer is do the best you can Okay, is that a good enough answer? Yes, it comes over Piedmont Smith. Is that a good enough answer for your needs as chair? Yes, it would be wonderful if you could pull those Items outcomes from the plans, but I understand that we all have time limitations Berallo well, it seems like this is going to be I Mean we're focused on this budget this year, and I think that this discussion has refined my thinking about Being very specific and for brevity having short Priorities not not having extensive priorities because there's going to be a lot to wade through and I think that you know we ought to prioritize things and then think about specifics and That would help the process. It seems to me sort through rather than having tomes to To try to read through and evaluate So anyway, that's just my suggestion keep it brief Maybe just two two two general thoughts I mean the though the one is for us not to get super and I think this is to council member Flaherty's earlier point It's for us not to get super caught up in you know, or disconnected I mean, it's very easy to just throw out numbers and metrics and then just you know start from there and move backwards That's not really the goal. I think that One thing that we've that we've sort of found here is that nobody had any critiques outside of the housing and homelessness separation Of any of the proposed categories I think these are almost directly reflective of like what other cities like Fort Collins have done with them I mean that might be an area where if you if you have a strong feeling we're actually like no I don't think you know I mean equity or something is not something that needs to be a separate area and in the budget but rather we want that You know throughout I think that's input that we probably still need But but I think one thing that's that's useful you know the core of implementing outcome-based budgeting like Is is is often what people call like offers or the sort of sales element of it that people come and they ask for things And then you and the council the legislative body the budgetary body. I'm sorry it makes offers of those things and importantly What we're really talking about there's I mean the vast majority of our budget is what you might think of as just a continuing offer and so I don't know if we need to Spend a lot of time thinking about the things that we already do that needs to just continue happening, right? I mean paying the lights at bills as you will and so it's that it's that space outside those what people would call Enhancement offers the you know the things that we want to see happen in that flexible space of our budget which is I think the you know in terms of limiting we don't need a What we don't need from everybody at this moment is not, you know, every single outcome you'd like to see in the budget but things you'd like to See either enhanced included that have not been included Increased so the type of conversation that Comes morello brought up, you know this, you know, we're doing well with with Jack Hopkins. We want to increase that that's that I think the sort of minds the the space that we need to be in and then have some like theory of change that That as councilman Fleury was saying like, you know, the reason why we think this should happen is yeah And so that helps us then in that final conversation of the okay Where is this money coming from if we think that it's that it's you know, our argument is by funding Jack Hopkins We will achieve Said outcome what other things are trying to do that right now and and when we put those in contrast Which of these is more worth the money in this context for this year So I think that sort of limits what we're talking about here. It's not you know, the whole the entirety of everything we're just talking about those sort of enhancements and Increases if you will Does anybody else have any other things to add Okay Thank you all for this conversation. Thank you to the public who've involved themselves in various ways I want to take a couple notes on council schedule First of all has has already been mentioned the fiscal committee will meet next week April 16th At 2 in the afternoon to kind of synthesize this discussion So if this was interesting to you that might be a meeting that you want to tune into It will be in person and online. It'll be a hybrid meeting So there will be a zoom link and I think right now it's scheduled to be in Allison But that might change to McCloskey not totally sure but you can that'll be updated on the calendar if it changes And then we'll have another special session on April 30th About budget again, and hopefully there'll be this prioritized list Other things going on that I wanted to be sure to mention tomorrow night The Parks Department is having a master planning work session at 6 o'clock in Allison conference room. So there was a couple messages references to parks programs And I know that I will be at that and I believe one or two other council members will as well So that'll be interesting and then I also wanted to highlight on April 23rd the Hopewell Commons grand opening is happening starting at 330 in the afternoon and lasting I think until about 6 so Those are things that you could put on your schedule Our next regular session will be next week on April 16th Are there other notes to add to the schedule councilmember Piedmont Smith? Processes is meeting on Monday April 14th 12 15 to 145 in the Allison conference room Thank you very much. Any other committee meetings to announce today The fiscal task force is meeting next Wednesday on on April 16th at what time At 9 a.m. And so the difference with the budget task force Oh 8 a.m. Sorry the budget task force versus the fiscal committee They do slightly different things related to this transition to outcome based budgeting So if you want more details on that just email me and I'll clue you and thank you if there's nothing else We are adjourned (orchestral music) (orchestral music) (orchestral music) (orchestral music) (orchestral music) (orchestral music) (orchestral music)