- This meeting of the Bloomington Common Council to order here on October 22nd. Will the clerk please
- call the roll? Councilmember Flaherty here Roth here Rallo here Piedmont Smith here Strasburg here Daly
- here Zulek here Rosenberger here. Sorry here. Thank you Thank you
- As some of you know, one of the things I like to do to start off our meetings is to give a little bit
- of interesting information, often related to some sort of justice or equity issue, usually something
- that applies locally. And so today, I wanted to start off by talking about Domestic Violence Awareness
- Month. It is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. That is why we are all up here having some sort of purple
- on, as well as our staff and the clerk.
- And so thank everybody for playing along with the purple game tonight for me. Domestic Violence Awareness
- Month began in 1981 as a way to unite those across the nation who were working to end domestic violence
- and support survivors of domestic violence. And so tonight I wanted to highlight a few local statistics
- related to domestic violence and remind our community of some related resources. So first from
- the Bloomington Police Department's State of Public Safety in 2025 presentation during the year 2020,
- there were a total of 370 reported criminal incidents in the domestic battery crime category, and this
- was actually a decrease of about 5% from 2023. So maybe we're trending in the right direction, which
- would be great. However, domestic violence is certainly under-reported as a general rule, and this is
- kind of demonstrated by the service numbers that one of our great local resources for domestic violence,
- Middleway House, provided me with.
- So Middle Way House is a local organization that supports victims of domestic violence, and they've
- been supporting survivors in our community with housing and other resources since 1970. So they provided
- me with these 2024 numbers reflecting their service to our community, and I do want to note Middle Way
- House does. They have a service area that includes Bloomington and Monroe County, but also includes
- some adjacent counties as well.
- So they had 5,699 survivor calls to their hotline. They had 516 legal advocacy clients, and they filed
- 172 protective orders with their assistance. There were 125 adults and 103 children housed in their
- emergency shelter during 2024.
- They had 32 families that they served at the rise, which is a residential program for those transitioning
- out of violent relationships. So those are the numbers that I wanted to share and just say that it's
- really wonderful to have an organization like Middle Way giving support to the members of our community
- who need that assistance transitioning out of violent domestic situations. And if you are in an unsafe
- Domestic situation you can of course call the Bloomington Police Department or 911 And you can also
- reach out to the crisis hotline for middle way at eight one two three three six zero eight four six
- So I'm glad that we have that resource in our community Now I'll move on to our agenda summation for
- this evening's meeting and
- We will start with minutes for approval We have three sets of minutes to approve from March 5th, April
- 30th and May 7th all of this year After minutes, we will have reports We will have a section for reports.
- Sorry First we will have reports from council members. Then we will have the mayor and city offices
- report We will where we will have a report tonight from the Bloomington Monroe County Metropolitan Planning
- Organization Then we will have council committee reports and I'm not aware of any of those this evening
- And then we will have our first segment of reports from the public So that is a time if you are a member
- of the public who would like to report on an item not on the agenda That is a time for you to give a
- three-minute comment There are no appointments to boards and commissions tonight We have one piece of
- legislation for first reading which is ordinance 2025 42 amending title 2 of the Bloomington Municipal
- Code related to the order of business at regular sessions for this meeting
- And then we will move on to second readings and resolutions. We will start with ordinance 2025 38 fixing
- the salaries of officers and employees of the police and fire departments. We will then move on to ordinance
- 2025 39 fixing the salaries of this office of the city clerk for the city of Bloomington.
- And then we will have ordinance 2025-40 to fix the salaries of officers, non-union and AFSCME employees
- for all the departments in the city or all other departments than the two previous ordinances. Then
- we'll have resolution 2025-18 approving the naming of the stadium district. And then we will end with
- ordinance 2025-32 amending Title II with regard to urban agriculture.
- Urban agriculture commercial, sorry That will wrap up our legislation for the evening We will have an
- additional period of public comment for anybody wanting to speak on items not on the agenda And if you
- want to speak to something not on the agenda, you have to choose one of those two periods of time You
- can't speak at both of them any notes about council schedule and then we will adjourn and
- So we can start for the minutes and I do want to note to council members that two slightly revised sets
- of minutes were just sent out moments ago from the clerk from meetings from March 5th and meetings from
- May 7th were very slightly revised.
- Move to approve the minutes from March 5th 2025 April 30th 2025 and May 7th 2025 Are there questions
- from council members Since we're all actually here in person tonight, we can do a voice vote. So all
- those in favor, please say aye aye any opposed Thank you. That motion passes unanimously moving on to reports
- First reports from councilmember. I'll go ahead and start to my left with councilmember daily No report.
- Thank you councilmember Zulek. Yes. Thank you Council attorney liner, would you please put up the letter
- on the screen? Thank you
- So in short I prepared a short letter opposing the purchase of the county's purchase of the North Park
- location for the new jail that is very necessary to be built in short the location is outside of city
- limits with little to no plans for public transportation and I believe that this location will prevent
- a lot of our city residents from being able to
- get to hearings at the Justice Center and Really just Make the criminal justice system, which is already
- difficult to navigate even harder Furthermore our downtown businesses rely on revenue generated from
- the foot traffic from visitors and employees at the Justice Center especially during the work week as
- many of you know our downtown businesses already struggle with the Monday through Thursday crowd for
- Business and so I would I would hate to see them take any more hits So in short the letter is up on
- the screen. I believe it went out around 4 p.m. Today, and I would really appreciate it if we could
- vote to send this to our county counterparts Thank you. Happy to answer any questions Thank you, so
- Sydney has written this letter and as interested in as many council members as possible signing on to it and
- Do council members have any comments? Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I'm in support of the letter
- I have other reasons that I also Would add to opposition to purchase of North Park, but I think this
- covers two important reasons. Thank you Other comments or questions for council members you
- look Councilmember Rosenberger
- I'm also in support. I was going to say I too had just one other thought I don't know. Are we voting
- on this tonight or is that the plane? Okay, great I was just gonna say I don't think it mentions people
- visiting their Visiting people in it does does it say that? Oh, okay, and that I think is just another
- Reason that it's so important to have it on public transit so that people can visit their people in
- jail. Okay. Thank you Other comments or questions for council members who look
- Thank you. I just want to thank council members who look for writing this I agree with the reasoning
- laid out and what council member Rosenberger said to it was a my initial reaction to hearing about the
- Change in location was exactly that that it's it's difficult to get to your loved ones then when you
- need to go visit so For all of those reasons, I will be supporting the letter. Thank you other comments
- or questions
- I Will go ahead and take a comment then I'm I'm supportive of the content of the letter But I'm not
- sure that it I think I feel like it leaves things out to you including the visiting I also think that
- it leaves out the Issue of financing which I think is also really huge right now the way that it's been
- explained to me the county doesn't actually have the money to actually do the project that they're planning
- on doing and
- I also think that location Puts our BPD officers and really challenging situation because I mean they
- Bloomington is so big they use the jail significantly in terms of booking people in and they would have
- to go all the way out to North Park to book people in and then all the way back to wherever it is that
- they're stationed in terms of the region that they're patrolling and I think that that
- just leaves those officers kind of out of circulation for too long in terms of serving. So I'm supportive
- of what's in the letter, but I don't feel like the letter actually says as much as maybe I would want
- it to say. And given the time crunch, I don't want to put my name on this because I think that it leaves
- out too much. But I know that we're kind of limited in how much we could edit it tonight. So I guess
- I would prefer, then, to have as many people want to sign and as many names on it
- As people want to go on it, but not necessarily have it from the entire body just because it does leave
- stuff out So I hear what you're saying and I there are other things that I would have liked to include
- in the letter I really wanted to focus on the city as a stakeholder and how it would specifically impact
- the city if that makes sense and now I do hear your point about BPD I was trying to keep
- to a page and just communicate to of the The most pressing issues, but I would still like to vote on
- this as a council to send it Okay, I guess I feel like it would be almost work a worse Like I would
- have to vote vote. No that I didn't support it because I don't want to put my name on it So I almost
- feel like that would be that would look worse overall than just having individual names signed on it
- To say that there was a dissenting vote on this Does that make any sense to anybody besides me? Councilmember
- Rosenberger I'm a big fan nowadays of it's good enough to go and I think that the point is to get something
- out ASAP. I'm okay For well, I guess I would say it's your own
- If everyone wants to vote, it's your choice to vote. No, of course And then it would be eight of potentially
- eight of nine people who are in support of this and I'm happy to say I'm in support of this and I have
- other reasons as well I don't think this is like the end of my perspective, you know, and I feel fine
- about that, I guess Yeah, just an idea that may work for other council members as well I
- Um, I would vote for this letter. I sent the commissioners and my, um, county council representatives,
- uh, a more detailed email last week, um, noting not only the location, but the proposed size, the lack
- of concurrent investment in prevention and the lack of a funding mechanism. So, um, I think since I've
- already sent that this will just be in addition so that they know that I have
- More issues than just the ones in this particular letter. So that's a tactic that other council members
- could could use as well Just send their own letter in addition, but I think it is timely because October
- 28th I believe is when the commissioners will go to County Council and ask for funds to make the purchase Comments
- I guess I feel like we wrote a similar letter last year and of course we didn't. There was a letter
- written last year that was about I think the IU protests and not all of us signed our names onto it
- and that was okay. And so I don't know why this one would have to be a vote and then it would have the
- entire council name on this letter when we did a letter a different way last time.
- Council member, sorry. I think we might be splitting hairs a bit. I think I'm quite OK with us just
- not making it official vote, because I don't even know what the motion is. Motion would be for the clerk
- to send it. Because we can just sign it, right? I mean, there's nothing keeping us from signing it,
- right? Yeah. So how about we just do that? That's fine. I was just going off of what we did last time
- with the EPA.
- letter So from from my standpoint that was where I was approaching it from consistency Yeah, and I guess
- between that example and the IU example from last year, maybe we don't have consistency So Do you just
- want to print print that letter off maybe before it maybe oh That's true is it gonna be a physical sense and
- councilmember Zulek or an electronic sends or both I Don't think there's a usually Because if we do
- an electronic sends then people can just Like is there anybody besides me who doesn't want to put their
- name on it I Don't see any hands so Does that work for your
- Purposes right now. That's fine. I think it would be stronger to vote on it and send it as a council,
- but that's fine Well, do you want to do you want to move to do that then? Yes, I move to as a council
- send this letter to the Monroe County Council and the Monroe County Commissioners both physical and
- electronic copies
- So we have a motion and a second on the floor to and then so would so right now the letter is From you.
- So would you be the one that signs it? It does say City of Bloomington Common Council and then Sydney's
- little council member So does that I think we can add all of the council members in a list and I guess
- it will go to two pages and
- I don't understand what the issue is. Well, we're voting on the letter as it is. So do you mean to amend
- the letter and have everybody's name on it? And so it's at the motion. OK, great. So are there any other
- questions or comments on this? OK, so let's do a roll call vote on sending the letter.
- Councilmember Flaherty. Yes, rough. Yes, brah. Oh, yes Piedmont Smith. Yes, Stossberg. I'll say yes
- to sending it but I don't want my name on it Daily yes, Zulek. Yes, Rosenberger. Yes. I'm sorry.
- Yes Okay, thank you So that was we were still in the middle of reports from council members and
- So now we have councilmember Rosemarger. Hi great. Yes. Thanks. I have a little report Okay Do to do
- I want to start what is the phrase on I love the player hate the game. Is that it? Is that right? Oh
- Don't hate the player hate the game I want to start with that and say that I do appreciate the players
- in this report
- Okay, so I've reported on this property back in 2021. It is 601 West 4th Street. It's in Prospect Hill.
- It is one block off of Rogers Street. So April 2021, 601 West 4th Street was a triplex, and it sold
- for $295,000. That is roughly $100,000 per unit.
- It is a historic home, of course. It's protected. Today, two and a half years later, the Triplex has
- been converted to a single-family home, two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,700 square feet, and is listed for
- sale at $559,000. So this Triplex conversion removed three incredibly affordable homes from our community,
- very walkable.
- A triplex cannot legally be built in Prospect Hill right now to replace that so Again, not hating the
- players. I'm happy for them and the work they did on this house Of course the outside of the house looks
- exactly the same Still the same paint everything like that, but the inside is very different. Thanks
- Thank You councilmember, I'm sorry
- Thank you just a quick Update that last week canopy Bloomington held the first of three plantings that
- they're doing Across the city, I think mostly on the near West side and had the pleasure of joining
- them as many of my colleagues have done In the past and when we were left with the charge to tell you
- all of the upcoming plantings so this Saturday starting
- I have to verify the time. I think it starts at 11 at Butler Park. There'll be another opportunity to
- volunteer. I say this a lot, both here and if we've ever talked personally, that I think we have this
- sort of disparity in Bloomington between our willingness to serve our community and our knowing that
- things are happening in the community and opportunities to serve. So hopefully, many of you will be
- able to show up for that.
- It's totally free and there's pizza, et cetera, that follows, so a great opportunity. Now, I usually
- don't use my comments to reflect on sort of broader national things or to reflect on sort of political
- moments because we had said that we would mostly use our
- comment times to update each other on what we've been doing, but our norm tends to be that we do update
- on sort of our reflections on broader things. And so I was thinking as we were planting this week,
- I mean, how metaphorical it is to the state of our institutions of civic governance and
- Primarily through the lens of the fact that it is so much easier To tear things down than it is to plant
- and to build them. I remember when It was probably his 87th birthday the incomparable Lee Hamilton I
- was asking him about his thoughts about you know, the current state of affairs. This was you know, six
- years ago or so or
- eight years ago. And his response was that what we should all do is trust the strength of our institutions.
- But I think that what we're seeing in the current moment is the constant eroding of those institutions.
- And I am fearful for the fact that academic literature shows that once you see a huge decline, a democratic
- backsliding, that it's very difficult to regain that ground
- And we're seeing this across the board from the federal government shutdown to the National Guard being
- mobilized against the will of local governments, to elected officials not being sworn in, to literal
- tearing down of historical parts of our White House and so on and so forth.
- To me, it's a really important reflection of the important work that we do as a community and as a local
- government. And we said throughout, we just, for example, passed our city budget. And though we had
- some things that we might have disagreed on collectively as a body, there was one element that I think
- people in Bloomington should be happy about, which is that we, through the last
- 10, 15 years of very good governance, and I'm looking at my colleagues who have been here for a very
- long time, some of you who are here in the last century. That was a joke about Dave Rallo.
- We've put the city in in a very strong position and and I think that it's testament To to the fact that
- local government is always where the rubber meets the road on the strength of our institutions now today
- We're going to talk about some things and maybe contentious and we there's a lot of work that we still
- have to do but I think that in the midst of the of the sort of Political moment that we're living in
- with the decline of our institutions across the country It's so important that we don't lose sight of the fact
- That what we're doing here is just family business, you know, like we disagree we argue we make fun
- of our old uncle But but at the end of the day like we're committed to providing value to to the citizen
- the residents of Bloomington and so just again as we're reflecting on on planting trees I hope that
- many of you will join them this week, but also that we recommit them to this important work of Protecting
- our democracy. Thank you
- Thank you councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, I just wanted to Praise the Organizers and the participants
- in the no Kings rally this past Saturday in Bloomington. We had over 2,000 people and as Everywhere
- else in the country. It was a peaceful protest It was an exercise of our constitutional rights to assembly
- and to free speech and I think it went very well and
- And I also wanted to highlight that it's not just DEI that this federal government is attacking, but
- it's actually civil rights and civil liberties that were hard fought in the 1950s and 60s that are being
- eroded daily, most blatantly in the Department of Education.
- But in that context, I wanted to highlight our NAACP here in Bloomington, Monroe County, which of course
- is one of the oldest and boldest civil rights organizations in this country. And they do have their
- Freedom Fund banquet coming up on Saturday, November 1st at 6 p.m. at Ivy Tech. And if you'd like to
- learn more or get tickets for this event, you can go to givebutter.com.
- The theme is The Fierce Urgency of Now, which of course is from Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream
- speech, 1963. And the funds raised will go towards scholarships and to continue the work in fighting
- for civil rights in our community. So that's my report, thank you.
- Thank you. Um, technically there's 20 minutes set aside for councilmember reports and we've met that
- so I'm gonna go ahead and extend us until Council members Rallo rough and Flaherty. Do you guys have
- reports? Okay, I'll extend it until 7 For now and I'll extend it again if we have to so councilmember
- Rallo Just real quick I want to apologize to anyone who attempted to zoom in on councilmember Rallo in my
- a constituent meeting this past Saturday due to technical difficulties we were unable to Get the thing
- launched and hosted and going but we intend to Do that this coming Saturday instead same time ten o'clock
- in the morning and We'll make sure we have the system working at that point. So that's all Thank You
- councilmember Flaherty Okay, and I just had a how to
- couple of things to say that I'll make shorter now one is I also wanted to announce my constituent meeting
- which As you guys may or may not remember I've been having to shift those around some during the fall
- because of cross-country season But this Saturday, I will have a constituent meeting here next door
- from 11 to noon. And I've also been kind of regularly outside at the farmer's market during the summer,
- but I think it's gonna be a little bit chilly for that on Friday, so I'm gonna move us back inside.
- So if anybody wants to come to that, that's next door, McCloskey at 11. And then for my colleagues,
- there was a form sent out for suggestions around deliberation session topics, specifically noting that
- the December 10th deliberation session currently has no
- So if anybody has a suggestion they want to make a commitment to organize that particular meeting Please
- respond to that form by October 31st Otherwise, I think that were we just discussed with staff the idea
- of Canceling that meeting. So if you have a topic for that deliberation session, please let me know
- and In the interest of time, I will call that my report So moving on to the mayor and city offices
- the Bloomington Monroe County MPO If you want to make sure to introduce yourself for the record and
- As a reminder there is 20 minutes set aside for this session and hopefully at least half or more of
- that time will be councilmember questions
- Hi, everyone. My name is Katie Gandhi myself and Pat Martin here are the current staff for the Bloomington
- Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization And as a quick reminder each year our MPO receives
- federal funding from the Federal Highway Administration to distribute to our local public agencies for
- multimodal transportation projects within the metropolitan planning area and
- Metropolitan planning area includes the current urbanized area of Monroe County as well as additional
- areas Expected to become urbanized in the next 20 years As you requested today will summarize the federal
- funding that MPO has Distributed to local public agencies over the last seven years which projects receive
- those funds What future projects are slated to receive funding?
- Through the MPO and some of the upcoming in dot funded projects planned for our county in the next five
- years This chart shows the quantity of federal highway funds the MPO distributed to local public agencies
- from federal fiscal year 2018 to 2025 and what we anticipate distributing to the LPAs in the next five years and
- Average the MPO is authorized to distribute about 4.6 million to local MPL PAs through Specific are
- though the specific annual amounts can vary due to a number of factors These annual totals do not include
- federal highway funding that city departments receive independently through grants and special funding
- calls these totals strictly reflect What is apportioned?
- To the MPO each year based on federal and state formulas Also, I will say that on my chart Fiscal year
- 2027 is a bit misleading while the MPO is slated to receive 4.6 million in federal funds that year almost
- all of that will go toward repaying a loan from fiscal year 24 which helped the city acquire extra money
- to finish the first street project and
- So in the last eight years, 25 local projects have received federal funds through the MPO. Several of
- those projects included multiple phases and or were funded multiple years. 21 out of the 25 funded projects
- included bicycle and pedestrian improvements as part of their scope in the form of curb ramps, signals,
- sidewalks, trails, and multi-use paths.
- I was supposed to switch the slide. I forgot to do that I'll give you a second on that So the next few
- slides show which projects received federal funds through the MPO in the past eight years and how much
- they received bolded projects include the pedestrian elements and
- You can see that in fiscal year 2018 for projects received MPO federal funds all of which included pedestrian
- improvements in fiscal year 2019 for projects received federal funds through the MPO which included
- City of Bloomington's second and Bloomfield pedestrian improvements and the Jackson Creek Trail and
- High Street Path projects
- In fiscal year 2020 six projects received federal funds through the MPO all of which were City of Bloomington
- projects five out of six projects Five out of the six projects that received funding involved the creation
- of new multi-use paths In fiscal year 21 four projects received funding If you notice that this is the
- fourth year in a row that Jackson Creek Trail and High Street Path received funding
- It's because of the extra administrative hurdles required when using federal funds. It's more efficient
- and cost-effective to use federal funds for larger projects that span multiple years. In fiscal year
- 22, five projects received federal funds through the MPO, which included another new multi-use path
- and crosswalk upgrades.
- Transit another valuable alternative transportation option for this community also received funding
- during this fiscal year In 2023 three projects received funding the funding granted to Bloomington Transit
- during this year enabled them to finalize their plans to construct a new facility and
- Fiscal year 24 due to extra funds received through a funding exchange with the Indy MPO nine diverse
- local projects received MPO funding most of the funding that year was granted to cities the city's hopeful
- for street construction and
- And finally, in fiscal year 2025, which ended in June 25, seven projects received funds from us. Some
- of the money in this fiscal year was also given to another MPO who will repay us that money in a future
- year when the money can be of better use to us. Note that none of the projects I just mentioned from
- the past eight years were fully funded using only federal funds from the MPO.
- That's because LPAs have to provide either a 10% or 20% match for any federal funds they receive.
- And also, MPO funds are typically limited, and LPA projects typically cost much more than the MPO can
- provide. I'll also mention here that not just any project can or should receive federal funds through the MPO.
- So because the federal funding process can take up to five years The MPO has to plan out five years
- in advance how MPO funding will be used the MPOs transportation improvement plan for fiscal year 26
- to 30 which was just published shows what those projects are that are approved to receive the upcoming
- MPO funds in the next five years and
- The College and Walnut Street corridor here The improvement project is one of the city's projects that
- are slated to receive federal funds through the NPO in the next five years The city of Bloomington is
- also anticipated to receive funds for phases three and four of their crosswalk safety improvement project
- as well as for phase five of their downtown curb ramp project and
- In the next five years, the city will also receive MPO funds for its high street intersection, intersection
- modernization and multi-use path project, which I know is a little contentious around here. And that's
- anticipated to begin construction this coming spring. The city has also been granted federal funds through
- the MPO for their North Dunn Street multi-use path project.
- East Clover Lane to the bypass And finally the city's West Second Street project which began construction
- just this last month Or went to letting anyway has been granted federal MPO funds as well all five of
- the city of Bloomington projects that are receiving MPO funds in the next five years will result in
- infrastructure upgrades that
- will benefit non-drivers. Monroe County Highway Department will also receive some federal funds in the
- next five years for an intersection upgrade at Old S.R. 37 South and East Dylan Road. And then, if any
- project scheduling changes, which can happen sometimes because the federal funding process is complicated,
- Allocated MPO funding will either be shifted to benefit any of the projects you see here, be granted
- to Bloomington Transit, or to exchange with another MPO so that we can have extra funds in the future
- to spend. There are also a few pedestrian-focused projects planned for our county in the next five years
- that will be led and funded by the Indiana Department of Transportation.
- Indot will both coordinate with the city and the county engineering departments and hold public meetings
- as part of their process One of the future in dot LED projects planned for our region is a reconfiguring
- of the pedestrian trail bridge over SR 45 Another planned in that project in the next five years is
- installation of a sidewalk on the SR 45 46 bypass between Kinzer
- Pike and Walnut Street And in dot will also complete some accessibility safety pedestrian improvements
- at South Hickory Drive where South Liberty Drive intersects with West Bloomfield and second one of the
- reasons for this project is the presence of a Bloomington Transit bus stop at that location And in dot
- also plans to do road and pedestrian facility work
- along SR 45 and 10th Street at two locations if they can maintain the funding for it first between the
- bypass and North Pete Ellis Drive starting next year and then later between North Pete Ellis Drive and
- North Russell Road, which is where University Elementary School is located and then other in dot
- Projects planned for the next five years within this county include structural and bridge projects pavement
- and bridge bridge deck overlays Railroad safety projects intersection improvement at SR 46 and West
- Flatwoods Road, which is west of Ellisville
- And then in dot has still unassigned discretionary funds that may come to this community as well and
- Pat and I will Update both the MPO public documents and the committees as those funds come in Thank
- you for the opportunity to share information about the MPO with you Pat and I welcome your questions
- Thank you so much are there questions from council members I
- There are no questions from council members council members. Sorry Thank you so much for the presentation
- when you're thinking about that five-year horizon And ways that the city particularly as we're thinking
- about budgeting as we're thinking about better, you know aligning budgets with with clear data, etc
- How could we? Better position ourselves to strengthen the MPOs ability to secure federal funding to
- you know, move it in the city, etc
- Martin, Bloomington Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization. The answer is, we're maxed out
- now. We've optimized everything as much as we could. We don't select the projects. Projects are selected
- by the engineering department, recommended by the engineering department, approved by the committees,
- the various committees and the policy committee, and then approved by the NDOT and Federal
- Highway Administration, Federal Transit Administration.
- And this year, this county year, I'm sorry, this fiscal year, 2026, we're looking to receive about 5.1,
- 5.2 million dollars, but then we're also at the end of the federal funding bill, and nobody knows what
- will happen then. That will expire at the end of September of next year, and Congress is yet to take
- up that legislation. So the outlook is a little fuzzy,
- If I can say that But we're I mean our priority has always been safety mobility connectivity
- and accessibility and that's what we're still doing That answers your question Actually, could you um,
- could you say your question one more time if I were to rephrase it It would be what would you have us
- do to make your work easier? Well
- I guess it depends on any any goals you guys might have So and I wanted to add on to what Pat said,
- which is that? You know the the city engineering department does you know? They work off of the priority
- lists that are set by plans that are made by studies that are done by Planning the planning documents
- that the planning department does so, you know, they all work together along with public works a lot
- of projects don't
- You know the timelines are complicated because funding is complicated and so For example like crosswalks
- phase three, you know, you have to get it into the tip or into our documents in 2023 consultant surgeon
- selected In 24, you know preliminary engineering goes 24 to 25 right away 25 26 construction 28 so it's
- a long process and
- From my understanding the the city engineering department, you know has to get approval from the City
- Council to even Get the project approved before it gets in our document and then they have to reapprove
- Construction by that time all of you could have changed so they they they depend on bonds To make sure
- the funding is available in the future so I Guess just you know
- If you have strong interests in particular projects, you know Just learning more about the process of
- how those projects get into these documents and then get the funding that they get Would would be helpful
- Thank you, are there other questions from council members comes member Rosenberger. Hey, thank you so
- much And I'm sorry if you said this I was like staring very closely at this map and
- North Dunn Street, okay, so that is Anticipated construction fiscal year 2028 And it's budgeted for
- like five hundred thousand dollars this year, I think so is that like design or I guess just I'm just
- curious as to like what that is I should have had this document open
- So The North Dunn Street project it was is using $100,000 this fiscal year for right away acquisition
- and then local funds in 28 for construction engineering and construction and then will be supplemented
- by Roughly a million
- of federal funds in 28 for construction Prepping for 2028 construction, but then it seems like it will
- all get done at once because once you have that right of way It's sort of easier to just get it on the
- multi-use path. Okay That's really neat. Just a note is separate But the speed limit on that road is
- 30 and it's such a tiny road and hilly I just wonder if we can change that but I know that's not a question.
- Okay. Thank you
- Are there other questions for miss Gandhi? Okay. Um, I have one question because one of the things that
- you, uh, mentions, um, regarding this, the end dot, uh, projects along 10th street between the bypass
- and Pete Ellis was, uh, you said if they can maintain the funding for it, is that funding in danger
- right now?
- They just have a lot on their plate and they are constantly prioritizing. So just like we update the
- tip every two years The tip is what has all of the future projects planned out on it We updated every
- two years things change in those two years priorities get shifted sometimes You know if right of way
- for high street can't can't be obtained, you know Then that project might be delayed or cancelled or
- something like that. So they also have a similar document called the step and
- And they readjust their their funding and priorities So I know that that that particular area is a very
- strong Interest in this community in fixing particularly because it goes to the University Elementary
- and We are you know, we are on their docket we are on their list but you know as Funds get shifted.
- So I think you know
- administer and some some leadership support from the council could definitely Definitely possibly help
- with securing that funding and preventing it from being shifted Great. Thank you. Were you specifically
- talking about the like phase one funding? Between the bypass and Pete Ellis, or are you more thinking
- about the phase two between Pete Ellis and Russell Road? That might be end up any of it could be
- Okay, thank you theoretically what's in the tip what's planned out for the next two years is secure
- but anything beyond that is considered illustrative and Not as secure Great. Thank you any other questions
- All right. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. We all really appreciate it and
- that was a very informative slideshow and
- All right, we don't have any reports from council committees, so we will move on to our first First
- section for public comment
- So if there are any members of the public who would like to make a comment on items Not on the agenda
- now is a time for you to do so and I already see somebody here in chambers Moving to the podium. So
- if you are in chambers you can do exactly as this person just did and move to the podium You can sign
- in and then state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes If you are online, you
- can go ahead and raise your hand using the reactions tab on zoom Or you can send a chat message to the
- host But let's go ahead and start here in chambers since there is somebody
- Already is the timer all set? Great. Thank you. Go ahead Hello, my name is Greg Alexander I prepared
- slides, but I was told I can't use them for Thanks for a bogus accessibility reason I respect policies
- but the council website still says we can use visual aids Changing the rules without informing the public
- is disrespectful to my time You're creating unneeded animosity anyways
- So I will ask you to imagine sidewalks you can't see. I went to Howe Street in Prospect Hill, and I
- walked east towards the beeline over about four blocks. I took six photos of the sidewalk being blocked.
- Mostly, it's blocked by vegetation. It's not completely blocked. You've got plants growing into the
- sidewalk, all sorts of patterns. As a single person walking alone, you can simply slip through. The
- sidewalk's about five feet wide, and the narrowest gap between the plants was about two feet wide.
- Sometimes, you'll have plants brushing against your body. If you get in the habit of accepting that,
- you will get poison ivy. It's a problem, but still, as a single person, the sidewalk is totally usable.
- Some of these plants are even beautiful, not when I photographed them. If you're walking with a bike,
- now your bike's snagging on everything. You're getting twigs, seeds in your chain. It's not so bad,
- but it's not so great either. You might still walk on the sidewalk. Now, if you're walking with friends
- or if you're walking with kids,
- Now, you're always switching to single file. It's friction, trying to keep hold of your kids while you're
- going single file. You know, it is so tiring. It breaks up your conversation. It disrupts your focus.
- I forgot to show you the picture of the garbage dump. Half a block before you get to the beeline, the
- sidewalk ends entirely to make way for a pile of private trash cans and parking. The sidewalk doesn't
- even go the whole distance. Of course, it doesn't. What do you do? You walk in the street.
- This is absolutely normal. Like, on Homecoming weekend, I saw a bunch of, you know, students and student
- parents, groups. Anytime there's a group of more than about five people, they're just walking in the
- streets downtown, because they couldn't fit on the sidewalk. About a month ago, Sean Sullivan was walking
- with his bicycle, and two of his friends on Howe Street, same trip I did, I guess, from the police report,
- they could use the same sidewalks that I photographed, but obviously, they didn't. They walked in the street.
- A driver tried to intimidate them into getting out of the street. Mr. Sullivan refused, and he was shot
- and killed. This is a transportation fatality. The conflict was based on the fact that one group felt
- they had no choice but to walk in the street, and somebody else felt entitled to demand that they leave
- the street. Both the victim and the suspect in this case are impoverished, but even between just them,
- they felt the class implications of our transportation system. People and cars matter.
- people without cars don't. In the extreme, this common attitude creates murder. You can't do anything
- about this in the short term, but we have to keep in mind that our car-first priorities that are enforced
- in this body still have consequences that are cultural and psychological beyond merely fiery crashes.
- Thank you for your time. Thank you. Are there any other public comments in chambers? Has anybody raised
- a hand on Zoom?
- Yes, we have two. Wonderful. Let's go ahead and go to that first Zoom commenter. When you're unmuted,
- go ahead and state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes. Hello.
- Can you hear me? Yes, we can. My name is Paul Rousseau. Good evening. Twelve days ago on Friday,
- October 10th, I had a bicycling experience that I would like to share with you.
- At about 345 in the afternoon, I was westbound on Second Street because I had a medical appointment
- near the corner of Second and Landmark Avenue. Shortly after riding through the intersection at Rogers
- Street near the old hospital, my chain broke as I was riding uphill. I fell to my left into traffic.
- As I hit the ground, I saw a few tires come close to my head. Fortunately, no motor vehicle ran over me.
- and I suffered only minor injuries. However, what happened next was somewhat shocking. About a dozen
- cars drove around me. Nobody stopped to help. I was left to fend for myself and just get out of the
- way. My experience on Second Street is one more indication among many, such as excessive growth, that
- leaves me doubting that the city as a whole
- is a community. You may ask why I was bicycling on a busy route like Second Street. The reason is simple.
- Too much of Bloomington is designed like a suburb in which traffic is funneled into busy arteries with
- no parallel side streets. Regrettably, for this and many other reasons, I'm inclined to conclude that
- Bloomington is neither bicycle friendly nor a real community.
- I would suggest that the city stop calling itself a bicycle-friendly community. There are probably many
- other things that could be done to improve the situation, but I'm out of time and I'm unable to attend
- meetings of the Transportation Commission. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. Do we have another
- commenter on Zoom still?
- Yes, one more. Wonderful. Thank you. When you're unmuted, you can go ahead and state your name for the
- record and then you'll have up to three minutes. Hi, Council. It's Eric Spoonmore with the
- Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. Just wanted to provide a couple of comments on different things
- tonight. Really appreciate Council Member Zulich's letter and really appreciate you all. I think you all
- it appeared that there was sending and signing the letter was unanimous. So I think it's important that
- the City Council is using its voice on these kinds of issues that really impact our downtown core. We've
- had the legal community in Bloomington basically since 1818 when Monroe County was founded.
- and now we've got a very consequential decision before us where this could all be uprooted and moved
- outside of the county seat into the more rural county jurisdiction that would absolutely cause some
- accessibility issues that the chamber is concerned about and also would lead to some economic
- I think consequences for our small business community down there that I know a lot of you are very concerned
- about and aware of. So again, thank you for your support of that letter. I hope it may be an opportunity
- for the mayor to find some alignment here with the
- City Council on an issue that really impacts our downtown community and hope that the mayor's administration
- is Kind of paying attention to that as well too as we have a big decision coming up with the County
- Council Next week on Wednesday and in the chamber will be there to provide some comments that are Opposing
- the purchase of North Park as well, too. So again, thank you also want to
- reiterate some remarks made earlier by Council Member Isabel Piedmont-Smith. Thanks so much for plugging
- the NAACP Freedom Fund Banquet on November 1st. NAACP of Monroe County is just a great chamber member,
- longtime chamber member, and I look forward to seeing many of you, government partners, community partners
- at the banquet. So please do join us there for that as well too. Thank you all for your work.
- And we will see you all soon. Thank you. Thank you. It looks like we have somebody else here in chambers
- now, so if you want to go ahead and state your name for the record, I think you already signed in. You
- have up to three minutes. Good evening, Madam President. This is Christopher Emge bookending the Chamber
- of Commerce. I just want to, first of all, say I want to thank the Council for their work on the budget process.
- I was gonna do some personal grievances today, but I want to keep it positive. So we'll save those It's
- a hard. It's it's a hard process. It's difficult you're flushed with a lot of different information
- and you're working collaboratively and it's Not a great time to be doing budgets. I think the the count
- your your county peers will probably agree with that the finance committee meets tomorrow and the work
- ahead continues and
- The financial crunch only gets deeper as we go into this and as we go and get into outcome-based budgeting
- some hard decisions are going to be made and I think The chamber came from a let's will pump this year
- But next year we're we're sort of expecting some some real changes within the budgeting and how we're
- budgeting just to make things ends meet and sort of pick some real priorities based on those outcomes
- that we want to do and Really maximize our utility which is very important. The next thing I want to
- do is just
- Sort of plug the other thing I do here at the the greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce Which is our
- success school, which is the foundation feel-good arm of the chamber We two weeks from tomorrow's that
- would be November 6. We are hosting our career cruise for seventh and eighth graders throughout the
- county Which is kind of a seafaring adventure to different jobs and employment and I'm recommending
- local businesses including the City Council and
- Bolton's office to join us in that I've already sort of secured the election office which I'm hoping
- to bring in a Rotating group of elected officials and it'd be a good chance to sort of do a little civics
- with seventh and eighth graders But I'm encouraging all the departments within your city of Bloomington
- to join me in this very fun engaging day That's November 6th. That is a Thursday. It's
- roughly 9 to 2 p.m. If you have questions, you can reach me at the chamber office. I'm available here.
- And my final plug is it is basketball season and if you ever want to have a sort of
- Chat with me. Let's go to Twin Lakes. We can go to the South High School on Sundays for some
- youth basketball, which I always love. Even though my son's injured, we'll still be there rooting on
- our peers. So support local basketball in the community. I want to see you at the career cruise. Thank
- you for your work on the council. It is appreciated. And the wonderful staff here today as well. Thanks.
- Thank you. Anybody else here in chambers who would like to make a comment?
- Anybody online raise their hand? Okay I guess that closes this period of public comment There is another
- period at the end of the meeting if you want if you decide between now and then that you want to comment
- on something not on the agenda Since there are no appointments to boards and commissions. We are on
- to legislation for first readings. I Move that ordinance 2025-42 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only I
- It's been moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025 42. We can do that by voice vote since we're
- all in person tonight All those in favor, please say aye. Aye any opposed. Thank you. Will the clerk
- please read Ordinance 2025 42 to amend title 2 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled administration
- and personnel regarding amending
- Bloomington Municipal Code 2.04.380 order of business at regular sessions synopsis this ordinance amends
- Bloomington Municipal Code 2.04.380 to update the council's regular session agenda expanding subsection for
- To include the mayor city clerk city offices city boards and commissions and city partnership entities
- and reports Thank you, oh Sorry, that's the only thing for first reading tonight So we will have a second
- reading for that in two weeks at our next regular session meeting on November 5th And that's when we
- will discuss that so on to second readings and resolutions. I
- I move that ordinance 2025 dash 38 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only Second it's been
- moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025 38. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye any opposed
- Thank you. Will the clerk please read? Ordinance 2025 dash 38
- An ordinance fixing the salaries of officers and employees of the police and fire departments for the
- city of Bloomington, Indiana for the year 2026 Synopsis this ordinance sets the minimum and maximum
- salary salary rates for all sworn fire and police personnel for the year 2026 in accordance with council
- approved collective bargaining agreements
- Thank you. I move that ordinance 2025 dash 38 be adopted. Wonderful. So who do we have tonight to presents?
- Thank you. If you could state your name for the record, that'd be fantastic. Yeah, of course.
- Thank you. Sharp paycheck director of human resources presenting ordinance 2025 38 for police and fire salaries.
- Just some quick highlights from this ordinance for related to positions There's one fire civil non-sworn
- position that was previously listed as full-time But was actually filled as part-time and will remain
- part-time as intended going forward
- Police eliminated an evidence clerk position, and they added a crime scene technician position just
- to better support their operations. There's a sworn administrative position. For those positions, the
- salaries are listed individually instead of being listed by a grade and a step because they actually
- operate on the rank system, so it just made more sense to just simply list their salaries outright.
- This ordinance also includes a grade and step chart and that's just updated for reference for graded
- positions And those really are the highlights. I'm happy to answer any questions you have Okay,
- thank you. And I do want to note that we do have an amendment For this one, so I'm not sure if we want
- to introduce that amendment first or not Yes, I would like to introduce amendment one to ordinance 2025
- dash 38 and
- second Thank You councilmember Piedmont Smith This amendment just corrects the typographical error in
- section 3c part-time and temporary positions That's all I got okay, are there any questions related
- to amendment one I
- I don't see any questions. We do need to go to members of the public for public comment related to amendment
- one, which is Fixing a typographical error if there are any members of the public who would like to
- comment on amendment one If you're in chambers, you can make your way to the podium If you're online,
- you can go ahead and raise your hand using the reactions tab. I See somebody moving in chambers, but
- I'm not sure that they're gonna come and make a public comment on this right now but I'm gonna have to
- Wait and make sure they don't reappear. Okay, great. I got the head shake. So seeing no public comment,
- that brings us back to council for any council member comments around amendment one.
- No, no comment. I'll go ahead and comment and say thank you to councilmember Piedmont Smith for having
- such eagle eyes to spot these Small details that is wonderful to have somebody do that for us So will
- the clerk please call the roll on amendment one to ordinance? 2025 38 Councilmember Ruff Rallo yes Piedmont
- Smith. Yes Stasburg. Yes Daley. Yes
- Zulik yes Rosenberger. Yes. Sorry. Yes clarity. Yes Thank you that passes unanimously so now we're back
- to talking about This this ordinance as amended so we're gonna go back and start with questions from
- council members about the ordinance Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah in section to be the last
- Subsection there under other Says off-duty pay is received at a minimum of two hours And I'm just a
- little confused how that works So then there's a table that says shift paid differential Could you maybe
- walk me through an example of this trying to understand it to be Yeah, it's um
- Page 67 of the packet. I'm not sure what page of the ordinance I Am looking for oh no off-duty pay is
- received at a minimum of two hours I Will not pretend to specifically know the answer to that question. I
- Don't know if do you know deputy is it and it's listed in the contract and it just states that they
- will be paid at a minimum For two hours for that shift if they're called to duty Does that answer your
- question Okay, so if they're off duty they're called on to duty even if they only have an hour worth
- of work they'll be paid for they get paid a minimum of two hours and Then what is the table beneath
- that for I
- This table are you talking about the shift pay differential for depending on what shift they work then
- they get paid a differential per week So let's say they're off-duty mm-hmm, they're asked to come in
- they work two hours The afternoon shift so then they get some fraction of the $16 also no one is explaining
- what they get
- on a weekly basis, just if they are coming in in the afternoon or they're coming in in the evening,
- that's a weekly rate. What you asked me about about the off-duty pay is how much they are paid for each
- hour. Two hours minimum. So one is hourly and one is weekly. So does the shift pay differential table
- have anything to do with off-duty pay?
- That's why I got confused. I can see why that would be confusing. I think that they are different, but
- they're just together.
- Because they both represent two different types of other pay Okay, so they're two separate things Types
- of other pay. Yes Thank you, you're welcome. Sorry for that confusion Thank you. Are there other questions
- from council members for director paycheck?
- I don't see any questions, but so so I'm gonna ask one I was wondering since it takes so much time and
- energy to train new dispatchers And we've been challenged in that area if it made sense to consider
- some kind of bonus or retention after They've actually worked a set amount of time after their training
- period like if they do their training period and then stay for six months or stay for a year whether
- because I feel like there were other
- There were other bonuses in here, and I'm wondering if that type of bonus has been discussed at all
- anywhere. No, that type of bonus has not been discussed at all. I mean, I think that's a good recommendation
- for consideration. So we can always have that conversation with Chief Dikhoff. Of course, I understand
- all things are budget-related. And we also try to be fair and consistent in how we
- fill positions and offer pay, though I know that this is a hard-to-fill position. So we're always looking
- for opportunities to attract and retain more talent in this position. But to answer your specific question,
- we haven't talked about that to my knowledge. Okay, thank you. Do you have something to add?
- Nap was just explaining that the dispatchers are not a part of this particular ordinance They are a
- part of the civil city Ordinance the next ordinance that I'll be presenting this evening But their their
- pay grades are Listed under the police department in this ordinance. Yeah, it's because they are within
- the police department, but they are actually
- civil city positions But there but they're not actually in this ordinance even though it's listed in
- this ordinance they are not they are not a part of the police contract But these positions are actually
- a part of the police department so this ordinance doesn't approve Those positions even though those
- positions are listed within this ordinance. I'm confused now
- This ordinance To my understanding includes all positions that are a part of the police and also the
- fire department Whether they are sworn or not So as long as they are a part of the police department,
- then they are listed here So they would be listed here not in the civil city one later Yeah, I'm sorry
- for the confusion I just
- I apologize. I know I added some unnecessary confusion I was just making sure that if you had questions
- about Civil City and how we are paying civil city that would include our our dispatch positions as an
- example Then I just wanted you to know that that is separate meaning that it would not be a part of
- the negotiation It would not be negotiated to pay any type of additional
- Bonus for retention to our dispatchers that would be included in how we would pay our civil positions
- Sorry, but they're in this ordinance not in this. Okay. All right It's just a different bucket of negotiation
- and salary consideration Make sure you that that that makes sense now Are there are there other questions
- from council members I
- All right, let's go ahead and go back to the public. If the public has any comments about I've lost
- track of my ordinance number, ordinance number 202538 as amended. If you're in chambers, you can go
- ahead and make your way to the podium. If you're online, you can raise your hand using the Reactions
- tab. I don't see anybody moving in chambers. And I'm getting shakes from over there.
- At the council staff table that nobody's raised a hand on zoom So we will go ahead and revert back to
- council members for any council comments on ordinance 2025 38 as amended I Don't see anybody up here
- raising a hand so I'll just say thank you to director paycheck and thank you to our police and our fire
- departments for the good work that they do and will the clerk please call the roll then on ordinance
- 2025 38 as amended
- Councilmember Rallo. Yes Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasberg. Yes Daly. Yes Zulek. Yes Rosenberger Yes, sorry.
- Yes Flaherty. Yes Thank you that passes unanimously Moving on to the next one. I Move that ordinance
- 2025-39 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only I
- All those in favor, please say aye opposed. Thank you. Will the clerk please read Ordinance 2025-39
- to fix the salaries of appointed deputies and employees of the Bloomington City clerk for the city of
- Bloomington Monroe County, Indiana for the year 2026
- Synopsis this salary ordinance establishes the 2026 maximum salaries for Bloomington City clerk employees
- Thank you It's 2025 dash 39 be adopted Thank you. It looks like we have our city clerk up there ready
- to present if you could please state your name for the record and then the floor is yours Thank you
- Good evening. My name is
- Every time you respond, it throws me just a little bit. So I'm Nicole Bolden. I'm the Bloomington City
- Clerk. And I am here to talk to you about the 2026 salaries for the clerk staff. There are no major
- changes to the number of clerk staff that are in the office. So you'll still see the chief deputy and
- three other deputies, along with funding for our interns. We have incorporated the 2.7% COLA increase
- that all civil city staff are going to be receiving in 2026.
- Am open to any questions that you may have about the clerk staff clerk office Domestic violence awareness
- month for which we're all wearing purple and I thank you all for doing that as well Thank you. Are there
- questions for the clerk? Councilmember Piedmont Smith, so I can do the math. So is the 2.7 percent the
- only increase in
- If I recall correctly, there is another increase for longevity and I cannot remember which staff member
- it was for So yes, there was an increase for longevity for one of the staff members But we paralleled
- the same structure that the administration does for safe and civil city staff and we double check the
- numbers with the controller to make sure that we Well math is not my strong suit So, yes Okay.
- Thank you. Mm-hmm. Thank you. That may have answered my question was that
- The deputy clerk of communications and outreach actually was at a five point seven percent increase
- Maybe that's the one that would have been the longevity and that would be why because I was wondering
- that Are there other questions? Councilmember Rallo My question is about Under your your direction your
- office are your employees
- and competitive with other clerk offices around the country in terms of Their pay relative to their
- duties and so forth. Is that something that you track and that you know, we should Be aware that that
- is You know that we're keeping That it's brought to our attention Thank you for asking the question
- Most of the research that we have done in our office has related to other second-class cities around
- the state, which is problematic, as I've said before, because you're looking at offices and staff that
- have historically been undervalued, primarily filled with women. So the work that is done by the staff
- is not valued at the same rate as other departments or
- Positions whether it's in the private or public sector So yes, we've looked at them and I cannot recall
- off the top of my head where we fall in terms of clerk staff salaries By comparison with other second-class
- cities. I'd be happy to pull that up and get it to you But I won't be able to give it to you tonight
- and I apologize for that. Oh, of course I mean I'm thinking maybe next year's budget maybe we should
- Pay attention to that and you clerk Bolden you brought up last time and
- last few weeks about the cost of living increase in Bloomington being Higher than a lot of second-class
- cities and we should also be cognizant of that so I just wanted to bring that up as a sort of a I know
- what we were not going to make adjustments tonight, but just rhetorically speaking looking to the future
- to make sure that your office remains competitive and that you're able to hire people that you
- That you need the high quality staff that you that you have now. So thank you Thank you, are there other
- questions Okay, I have another one too last year you didn't have any interns listed and so I'm just
- wondering how What's your intern plan as it's budgeted for two? Are you planning on working at like
- them working all year? 40 hours a week or like what's your
- What do you think? That was actually an oversight last year where we had the money budgeted for interns,
- but it actually wasn't enumerated in the clerk's salary budget itself. So that was something that we
- were working to correct. I think most of what we do is a work in progress, and we're always trying to
- make sure that we're in line with best practices and what the code says always. I'm going to be very
- careful about that since two of my law school professors are in the room right now. I don't want to
- disappoint them.
- So anyway, but yes, that was just an oversight last year. We corrected it. OK, so interns aren't new
- then? They are not new. We've had interns in the office. I thought that you had had interns before,
- but then I was confused. Yeah. All right, great. So there's no changes basically in terms of the intern
- stuff, like quantities, hours, all that stuff from past years? Probably fewer hours overall because
- we didn't increase the amount that we had in that line, which has been at about $15,000 for years.
- But the intern pay the hourly rate has gone up over the years as well Great. Thank you. Mm-hmm other
- questions All right. Let's go ahead and go to members of the public then if members of the public would
- like to Make any comments regarding ordinance 2025 39 if you're in chambers, you can go ahead and make
- your way to the podium If you're online, you can raise your hands using the reactions tab. I Don't see
- anybody moving in chambers as anybody raised a hand on zoom I
- All right, then I think that we revert back to council for councilmember comments. Are there councilmember
- comments on ordinance 2025 39? Councilmember daily I just wanted to take this moment to say thank you
- very much to the to the clerk and to the clerk's staff I know we cannot have our meetings without you
- guys being there and
- You're you're often quietly supporting us and sometimes maybe we forget to double-check first that hey
- Can can clerk staff be there for one of our meetings when we're trying to talk and I apologize And we'll
- do better remembering that but but truly I mean this staff is amazing. So thank you Thank you, are there
- other councilmember comments I
- I think then we're ready to call the roll if the clerk could do that for ordinance 2025 39 Councilmember
- Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasburg. Yes, Daley. Yes Zulek. Yes Rosenberger Yes Sorry, yes Flaherty yes rough. Yes
- Rallo. Yes Thank you and that passes unanimously. Thank you all so much. I Move that ordinance 2025
- dash 40 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only Second, thank you. All those in favor,
- please say aye. Aye Any opposed? Thank you. Will the clerk please read Ordinance 2025 dash 40
- and ordinance to fix the salaries of appointed officers non-union and AFSCME employees for
- all the departments of the city of Bloomington Monroe County, Indiana for the year 2026 synopsis Ordinance
- 2025-40 sets the maximum 2026 salary for all appointed officers non-union
- AF s CME employees for all the departments of the city of Bloomington, Indiana I Move ordinance 2025
- dash 40 be adopted second Thank you and who is going to present this one If you could again state your
- name for the record, even though we all know you are yeah
- Happy to hi again sharp paycheck director of human resources presenting ordinance 2025 44 appointed
- officers non-union and AFSCME salaries Thank you, I believe that we also have an amendment on this one
- would you like to do that amendment first? Yes, I move amendment one to ordinance 2025 dash 40 Thank you
- Motion and a second on an order on an amendment. Go ahead councilmember Piedmont Smith Okay, so this
- one is in regard to section 2 I and All of section 2 I has been incorporated into the amendment, but
- it's really towards the end where
- There's a clarification of the additional 50 cents per hour premium for master equipment operators at
- Dillman And then in section 2l there's the same Typographical correction as we had for the previous
- salary ordinance Thank you are there councilmember questions on this amendment to ordinance 2025 40 I
- All right, I don't see any questions from council members about that. So we'll go ahead and go to members
- of the public for any public comment regarding just amendment one for ordinance 2025-40 to
- do that clarification that council member Piedmont Smith mentioned and to correct that typographical
- error. There's members of the public who would like to comment on this amendment. If you're in chambers,
- you can make your way to the podium. If you're online, you can go ahead and raise your hand using the
- reactions tab. I don't see anybody moving in chambers.
- No hands raised on zoom. So we'll go ahead and revert back to council for any councilmember comments
- on the amendment All right, I don't see any so I will just say thank you once again councilmember Piedmont
- Smith for having such equal eyes So will the clerk please call the roll on amendment 1 to ordinance
- 2025 40? Councilmember Stossberg. Yes daily. Yes Zulik. Yes
- Rosenberger. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes Flaherty. Yes, Rob. Yes, Rallo Piedmont Smith. Yes Thank you that passes
- unanimously. So now we're back to discussing the ordinance as a whole as amended So are there any questions
- that anybody has for? director paycheck Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I have a couple
- So Dr. paycheck in your memo where you summarize revised positions under utilities in page two of the
- memo it says all of the six divisions at CBU have an administrative assistant except environmental programs.
- So we're moving the line locates to the new line locates I guess that's a task.
- to the new lead communications operator and have an environmental programs administrative assistant
- to be the point person. So is that administrative assistant position new then? So utilities has a lot
- of revisions in this ordinance. So I invited director Zager to answer any specific questions if that's
- okay. Okay. Thank you. Please just make sure to state your name for the record. That would be great.
- Catherine Zager director of utilities No, this position is not new. It's being moved from one division
- to another the division It's being moved from is transmission and distribution They have someone who
- does a lot of their administrative duties already. This was kind of I don't want to say a backup because
- She was also doing a lot of administrative work but it to balance it out with environmental who did
- not have a
- Administrative assistant she's going to be moving over to here and some of those tasks are going to
- be Distributed to our if you notice there's a lead communications operator as well. So that is a new
- position. Well, it's Turning a position into a new position. So we have communications operators
- That's turning into a lead communications operator who will have more duties and will take on the line
- locates Like you're saying that will go to the lead communications operator And it makes more sense
- in that position anyway So that the administrative assistant can work in the environmental division
- Okay, thank you. Yeah, I thought it was a new position, but then it said fiscal impact zero. So I was
- confused So it's just moving the position Thank you
- Thank you. Are there other questions from council members? Councilmember Piedmont Smith go ahead. I
- don't see anybody else Also in the memo there's a section called additional changes and it says
- An updated collective bargaining agreement with ask me is being negotiated However, ask me representatives
- and the city executive branch have agreed to implement a 5% hourly increase to take effect January 1st
- So was that 5% hourly increase in our budget that we approved a couple weeks ago? Yes, okay Just making
- sure And then my last
- Totally different question When I look at the hourly rates table on page 92 of the packet that's within
- this ordinance I see the minimum for several jobs is $16 and 66 cents, which I understand is the new
- living wage for the city of Bloomington
- have there been has there been any consideration to revising our living wage ordinance to actually match
- what is in reality more of a living wage because 1666 is not something you can actually live off of
- We haven't had that conversation at this time. I
- We do realize it's expensive to live in the city of Bloomington and we try to do the best to
- be as competitive as we can within the budget constraints and if we can increase that I'm sure all the
- administration would be open to doing so but right now we just try to stay as aligned as we can with
- like federal regulations of the minimum wage and what we feel would be competitive for those common
- law positions and Hopefully in the future, you know, maybe we would be able to adjust accordingly. I
- Thank you. Any other questions? Okay, I think then we're going back to public comment So this would
- be public comments on ordinance 20 at 25. Oh Dear I think that we're on 40 20 25 40 as amended so if
- there are any members of the public who would like to make a comment on
- Ordinance 2025 40 as amendment as amended if you're in chambers, you can make your way to the podium
- If you're online, you can raise your hand using the reactions tab. I Once again, don't see anybody moving
- in chambers. Does anybody have a hand raised on zoom? Okay, I think then that we once again don't have
- public comment on this so we will come back to council members for any closing comments regarding the
- civil city salaries for 2026 and
- Councilmember Piedmont Smith I Just want to express my interest in revisiting our living wage ordinance
- for the city of Bloomington because we do have Some part-time and temporary positions that can be paid
- 1666 an hour as of January 1st, which is below an actual livable wage in Bloomington the MIT has a
- living wage calculator and they say the living wage for a single adult without children is $20.96 for
- Monroe County, Indiana. So I would like to revisit our ordinance. I know that we're coming into some
- lean times as far as our budget, but I think it's a top priority of mine to take care of our employees.
- So this is something I'll try to look into and work with the administration on before next year.
- Are there any other comments from council members? I'll go ahead and comment to you and I just well
- once again kind of revisit the equity issue that I brought up last year with regard to the cost of living
- Increases so when we have this across the board percentage cost of living increase those making the
- least amount of money also get the least raise and those making the most amount of money get the
- The most raise even though everybody is Theoretically paying the same base amount say for things like
- groceries and utilities and things like that So I just wanted to point out that the first step of our
- grade 14 salary increases I
- Will get a nine hundred and fifty dollar raise for the year in terms of that two point seven percent
- cola Well, the first step of our grade 14 salary gets over thirty five hundred dollars as a raise and
- over time That exacerbates the wage gap between those making the least amount of money and those making
- the most amount of money and so it just exacerbates
- inequities over time and there are you know doing it across the board Cola is kind of an easy way to
- do it in the short term but in the long term it can also cause problems so I'll once again raise the
- issue that it's important to kind of look at that in the future and not necessarily always give static
- cross the board Cola increases one thing the county did a couple years ago was give additional increases
- to those at the lowest end of the pay scale to kind of make up for a few years of that kind of differential
- happening so I would just once again want to raise that as
- An issue that we make sure to look at over time so that we don't have huge wage gap differentials Or
- I mean we kind of already do but so that those don't get exacerbated even worse over time So unless
- there are other councilmember comments Will the clerk please call the roll on ordinance 2025 40 as amended?
- Councilmember daily. Yes, Zulek. Yes
- Rosenberger. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes clarity rough Rallo. Yes, Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasberg. Yes So that
- passes unanimously and on to the next I Move that resolution 2025 dash 18 be read by the clerk by title
- and synopsis only second
- Moved and seconded to introduce resolution 2025 18 all those in favor, please say aye aye Any opposed?
- Thank you. Will the clerk please read? Resolution 2025 18 to approve the naming of the stadium district
- in the area surrounding Miller Showers Park synopsis this resolution co-sponsored by councilmember Stasburg and
- Names the area around Miller Showers Park as the stadium district This naming will foster community
- pride promote economic growth and enhance tourism in the area I Move resolution 2025-18 be adopted And
- I'm gonna pass this gavel over to councilmember Piedmont Smith as vice-president Okay
- Do we have a presentation on this item? I think that that's me
- It's a very short presentation. I just want to remind people that two weeks ago, we introduced this.
- And the kind of conclusion at the end of the meeting was we postponed it to tonight to allow an amended
- map to be presented. And I am very, very sad to say that so last week, the amended map or an amended
- map got sent to me and to Director Coopersmith. And I didn't like it. And so we asked the GIS department
- to change it again. And just in terms of their workflow,
- not able to get that back to me until yesterday. So I do have it now, and I actually really like it,
- but I did not feel like that was adequate time after receiving that map to make sure to get any kind
- of feedback that needed to be received to make sure that the concerns expressed last meeting about this
- by various members of our community, that I could address those with them and that I could give you
- all the map and time for you to actually consider it. So on that note, I would like to move to postpone
- consideration of resolutions
- 2025 18 until our next regular session on November 5th to allow for that time Second Okay, we have a
- motion and a second to postpone resolution 2025 18 to November 5th Is there any discussion questions
- on that? Councilmember Rosenberger. Hi discussion. Okay, I would like so my thought is I would like
- to postpone it farther and
- Because I don't think Matlock Heights has been consulted. I don't think Blue Ridge neighborhood has
- been consulted I don't know what the name is of the neighborhood where all the student housing is But
- I don't know if we've reached out to them Maple Heights had a neighborhood association meeting last
- night But they already had a director who asked if he could speak at the meeting So ESD was not there
- their next meeting is scheduled sometime
- Late November and so that like the November 5th definitely doesn't give any time to get on the agenda
- of a neighborhood association I Think that neighborhoods need to be consulted about this going to the
- meeting last night It's this one thing sounds kind of small and fixable like people don't like the name
- of it people don't want to residents who live in Maple Heights at least don't want to live in a district
- called the stadium district and
- And I think it is important to feel proud of like what your area is named and like I was just looking
- up, you know, like when we renamed Eagleson Avenue There was a task force that was created it had four
- meetings public suggested over 500 names Those were like wait, it was recommended to the Plan Commission
- and I think it is like that big of a deal that We shouldn't be rushing this name and
- We need to like have the public way in on it the way we have the public way in on naming other things
- in our city I think in terms of like procedure we can only postpone things one meeting at a time. Is
- that correct? attorneys I'm not sure which one of you wants to answer the question Yes, I think that
- would be the most prudent course of action and
- to continue it to the next meeting in this session which would be November 5th. It could potentially
- be postponed again to another date beyond that. OK. Thank you. All right. Any other comments before
- we vote on the motion on the table.
- Deputy clerk still please call the roll on the motion to postpone resolution 2025 18 to November 5th
- Council members they look yes Rosenberger Yes Sorry, yes Flaherty Yes rough
- Yes, Rala Sorry Piedmont Smith. Yes Stossburg. Yes daily. Yes and that vote to postpone carries with
- a vote of eight zero and I'll hand the gavel back to President Stossburg. Thank you next Legislation
- no, you're fine. I move that ordinance 2025 dash 32 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only
- Second. Thank you. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Will the clerk please
- read. Ordinance 2025-32 to amend Title 20 Unified Development Ordinance of the Bloomington Municipal
- Code regarding use table amendment, urban agriculture. Synopsis.
- This amendment and oh Is that wrong? Oh, yeah, it's not the amendment. It's the actual ordinance. Okay,
- hold it Do it's an amendment Oh, yeah, I think that's the point of confusion. Correct. Thank you. I
- was trying to find it Thank you very much. Yeah
- Synopsis the amendment introduces a new land use urban agriculture commercial this new land use will
- allow some expanded services and offerings within the city for urban agriculture uses beyond the current
- similar land use of urban agriculture non-commercial the new proposed land use would allow for an outdoor
- education come out component on-site employees and
- and year-round retail sales for produce grown on the property. This use is proposed to be a conditional
- accessory use in the R1 to R4, RM and RH districts, and a permitted use in all other districts. There
- are use-specific standards, a new definition, and related adjustments to the numbering of proceeding
- sections of the UDO.
- This ordinance is in accordance with Indiana code 36-7-4-600. Thank you. I move ordinance 2025-32 be
- adopted. Second. Thank you. Who do we have here to present tonight? If you could introduce yourself
- for the record and then the floor is yours. Thank you, Eric Grulick, development services manager.
- So this particular amendment was part of a package of amendments to the use table That came forward
- to the Plain Commission earlier this year. There were five amendments to the use table That came forward
- some of those have been previously heard by the council or I'm sorry five or six amendments to the use
- table Some of those have been heard by the council two of those took a little bit longer to get to the
- Plain Commission process so the urban agriculture and the single room occupancy ordinances
- took a little bit longer and are coming to the council now. So this particular ordinance amendment for
- the urban agriculture has been on the planning department's radar for a while, but because it involved
- an amendment to the use table itself, which has certain public notification requirements, namely that
- amendments to the use table, there's a zoning district map require notification to all affected property
- owners, which in effect require notification to everybody
- We we don't make changes to the use table very often so with a series of amendments that had come that
- were Coming forward that were amending the use table. We packaged all of those together And so this
- was one of those packaged ordinances that was coming forward So as I mentioned this has been something
- that has been on the Planning Department's radar for a while as there are several sections
- of the comprehensive plan and the climate action plan that encourage Changes to the zoning code
- to Encourage urban agriculture uses, you know, we had been trying to look for opportunities to incorporate
- that within the udio And so we came forward with an amendment to introduce this new ordinance called
- urban agriculture commercial
- This was intended to be something very similar to an existing land use within the UDO called
- urban agriculture non-commercial. And so the differences between the two or I guess maybe more specifically
- the limitations on the non-commercial use that we were trying to broaden did not allow for on-site education
- components.
- severely limited Number or the amount of uses that could occur on there required everything to occur
- within a building Didn't allow for year-round sales. So we had encountered a situation or situations
- where you know individuals wanted to do expanded offerings on a site to teach this particular use To
- allow for this to occur outside of a building So while there is an allowance in the UDO for home occupations
- that allows a very
- Scaled back version of a commercial use, you know home occupations. You can have any number of commercial
- uses accounting massage therapy piano teachers, whatever the urban agriculture non-commercial use
- Didn't allow for anything to happen outside of building. So we came forward for this use and We allowed
- for that outdoor component the education component the classes Allowed for year-round sales. We looked
- to kind of expand what the UDO allowed for non-commercial uses to allow it for a little bit broader
- scope And so we came forward to allow this as what's called a conditional accessory use meaning that
- the primary use on a
- property has to be established first so in single-family districts you know the list of permitted land
- uses is very small so you have to have a permitted use on the property first and foremost and then this
- is allowed as a conditional use accessory to that main use so it still is and it has to go to the Board
- of Zoning Appeals or the hearing officer to receive a conditional use approval so this is simply creating
- a path for this use to occur within the city there's still another path that it
- It has to go through if individuals want to establish this on a particular property So it's being proposed
- as a conditional accessory use so with this use
- As I mentioned, we were allowing for an education component. So there's a limitation, what's called
- the use specific limitations for this use that allow for employees. So it says that it allows for a
- maximum of one employee or volunteer per minimum lot size of the district. And so what that means is,
- for instance, in the R2 zoning district, where your minimum lot size is 7,200 square feet,
- If you have a lot to 7200 square feet, you get one employee. If you have a lot that's twice that size,
- so at least 14,400 square feet, then you get two employees. But there is a maximum amount of three employees
- that are allowed on any given property regardless of the size. So this ordinance had to use specific
- limitation to allow for employees that is relationable to the size of a property. Likewise for the classes.
- So one of the things that we encountered
- where the individuals wanted to be able to teach or have a teaching education component to this. So
- we looked at how to apportion the number of the class size relative again to the size of the property,
- looking at it from a perspective of a property of a certain size, the amount of people on that property
- is proportional to the size of that. So the number of the class size is limited to two people,
- Per minimum lot size. So again with the same relation to the employees if you've got a lot of 7200 square
- feet you get to People per class size and then you know, you can you can increase that proportionally
- But again, there was a maximum of eight enrolled employees or eight enrolled students
- regardless of your lot size So those are some of the main you specific restrictions We do it did allow
- for year-round sales Does allow for slightly larger? greenhouses or outdoor structures that are associated
- with this use and
- And so the the Planning Commission heard this at two separate hearings At their August hearing they
- voted five to three to forward this to you with a favorable recommendation So that is the proposal that
- the Planning Department and the Planning Commission has forwarded on to you So with that as I mentioned,
- it'll be a conditional accessory in the residential districts The ordinance that left the Planning Commission
- had it as a permitted use in all the mixed-use districts with no use specific
- Restrictions in the mixed-use districts. So with that I'm happy to answer any questions Thank you so
- much I do want to note that I have an amendment to this but I don't want to introduce the amendment
- until after there's At least some initial councilmember questions about the ordinance as it is. So are
- there questions from council members? Councilmember Rallo Thank you for the presentation so Right now
- we have non-commercial
- Urban agriculture and if I grow produce on my property I can sell that produce 180 days a year not 360
- correct correct and I can sell it People can come and buy it for me people can I can set up a stand
- I could take it to the farmers market. So essentially I could have essentially a commercial
- Use in a sense of my property already. So in a limited degree. Yeah Okay so furthermore People hire
- people for groundskeeping Trimming trees You know outdoor activity essentially So I could hire people
- currently so I'm trying to discern exactly what
- what the difference is here. So I could invite, I could hire people to come to my property. I could
- hire three people to come to my property and work. And there's no restriction on days of the week or
- the frequency of those visits, correct? Correct. Okay. So what about if I were to invite a class of
- students over?
- Right now I would be restricted in having students visit my property for, let's just say I plant native
- flora in the backyard and some teacher has an interest in native landscaping. So maybe a class outing
- involves students coming to my property. Is that restricted right now?
- So that's that that gets it a little bit trickier So with the you do you know you have there's while
- there is a permitted land use that is on a property There are a whole mix of things that might happen
- kind of incidentally So yes, you you have a class that comes over and you just want to show them things
- if that is something that starts happening on a regular basis every week
- Then then that can start to change a little bit of the the scope or the the use of a property from a
- residence to To maybe something a little bit different than that So that's kind of handled on a case-by-case
- basis and we don't deal with that very often But there are situations where you know somebody does something
- with such a regularity That that it becomes a little bit different than just a typical single-family
- residence And so we have to look at it from a little bit different lens Okay
- May I just ask a couple more from starters or would you like to move on? Why don't we see if other folks
- have questions is that does that work or do you have something else? I just follow up to say since we're
- talking about classes So it does the current proposed ordinance limit how often the frequency that classes
- can come so for instance good classes come every day and
- Well, so again, so it's a little bit different. So as I mentioned with the home occupation So the home
- occupation language says that you can do certain activities from your house But if you have any employees
- or customers visiting the premises, then you need a home occupation approval So there are limitations
- in the UDO of you know, who is coming or what is what is the intent of?
- Individuals coming there besides just to visit you so that's where I said, you know We have to kind
- of look at it from a different lens of if you're having classes or you're having people that you've
- hired You know and and landscapings are a little bit different Obviously people hire people to cut the
- grass all the time or keep their flowers or whatever but if it's associated with an activity that is
- is limited in some regards then we have to look at it from a little bit different lens of you know,
- is this approaching or exceeding kind of what the UDO was intending for
- Limiting it to just a single-family residence and you know activities that are customary Incidental
- to that and kind of elevating it to a different level. So that's why with this ordinance we incorporated
- language to deal with employees Because those employees might be coming every single day Very rarely
- it could come every single day of every single day of the year So that is not typical of a single-family
- residence where you've got somebody doing something on your property every single day of the year And
- so we have to we always
- Have to unfortunately in our world look at things from the worst-case scenario and like if this got,
- you know Utilized to a maximum extent. What would that look like? How would that impact neighbors? What
- would the impacts of that be? and so as we were looking at this particular ordinance and Writing it
- with a broader perspective in mind of what the uses could occur You know, it does occur obviously that
- you could have employees That would be on a very regular basis and what limitations might be appropriate for that
- Okay, so just to summarize what you said kind of I hope I'm getting this correct that This puts a limitations
- on the frequency of say employees A number of employees For that purpose of urban ag currently there
- are none now before it for that urban agriculture non-commercial There are no limitations on that now
- And the reason you know, so the urban egg non-commercial, you know There were there were two kind of
- scenarios that we had kind of envisioned or had discussed when that was being proposed one of those
- were You know kind of the the neighborhood serving garden plot
- You know, so you've got a vacant lot within a neighborhood and all the neighbors just want to get together
- and they want to Have their little garden plots on that neighborhood and they're growing the stuff there
- for their use So they are the employee or there was a situation where somebody has a Little section
- of their lawn and they want to have tomato plants or whatever and they want to sell those at the end
- of the year or you know Whatever they generate it was a somewhat limiting thing because the size of
- the property And the people that were using it lived on there. So this particular
- Their use the people that are coming and going there don't live there, you know They could be coming
- from anywhere and so again, like I said We were trying to look at it from a broader perspective of you
- know, if this is hugely successful And as I mentioned, you know, that's kind of how we have to look
- at these things Oftentimes is if this happens to the the most practical extent, you know What limitations
- might be appropriate for that? And so that's why we felt like it was necessary to deal with employees
- and then customers for classes
- Thank you. Are there other questions from council members? Council members, sorry.
- Thank you so much, Director Gulick. Could you tell us a little bit about the process that you just mentioned
- that the accessory use element means that people have to go to the BZA? Is that correct? Yes. So this,
- as I mentioned, this is listed as a conditional accessory use, meaning first and foremost, you have
- to have a permitted land use on the property. So in the single family districts, that would have to
- be, you know, single family
- Residents or a duplex or something like that one of permitted use in that zoning district
- And then, you know, with that use being on the property first and foremost, then you can apply
- for conditional use approval to allow for this use specifically. So it's not allowed by right. You know,
- in all of our zoning districts, you know, you have a list of permitted uses that you can just do by
- right. You don't have to have approval for. And then there are some uses that are listed as conditional
- uses, meaning you have to go through a specific process to allow for that use specifically.
- What are the standards that the BZA will follow to determine whether or not somebody is given
- this conditional use? Yeah, so there are about seven I think criteria in the UDO that deal with conditional
- uses You know one of those is compliance with the UDO specifically Compliance with utility standards,
- you know, there's an aspect that relates it to the comprehensive plan and so
- Yeah, there are some very broad standards But then also certainly if there are any you specific standards
- that apply to that we go through those you specific standards and assess the Proposal based on those
- specifically and then once once a resident has this conditional permit or conditional accessory use
- Does that last forever or yes. Yeah, so it runs with the property And does not have a time expiration on it
- Okay, and then is there anything any mechanism within the current proposal that would allow any adjustments
- this so can somebody currently you lose that that permit if they you know is there is there any condition
- under which they could lose that permit. I would say that they would have to be a very egregious.
- Instance where something really changed dramatically in the scope and scale where it would no longer
- be appropriate at that location You know, so there are two different things that kind of in an enforcement
- world that we deal with You know one would be a violation of the UDO where somebody is subject to fines
- And then the second would be, you know If there was a situation where there was a conditional use approval
- and to be honest, we've never dealt with this I mean we never had a situation where a conditional use has been
- Rescended after the fact down the line, you know nine times that attend the conditional uses that we
- see our Churches or schools or something like that So they would have to be something really drastic
- That has changed where that that use was no longer appropriate there So if somebody was violating a
- use specific restriction or any other section of the UDO, they would just be subject to fines So,
- you know, we would obviously want to consult with the legal department very carefully Before we went
- down the path of rescinding a conditional use approval. Okay. Thank you Thank you, are there other questions
- Councilmember Rosenberger
- Okay These are just high-level and I have a lot in the weeds as well But how many public outreach or
- engagement meetings took place for this use change? I
- We did not have any specific Neighborhood meetings as I mentioned, you know, this was part of like six
- or seven Overall amendments to the udio, but there were you know notification letters that were mailed
- out to every property owner in the city got it I just asked because there was just a duplex conditional
- duplex put in on Wiley Street that would add a
- Extra bedrooms to a house and the neighbors were super concerned about that parking and it took about
- six months So just like when we're talking about adding a lot of parking I do I guess just like why
- weren't there because I think that we were adding more cars in this scenario than we are for a duplex
- and Why did we not find it important to engage the public?
- I would say that you know that the public was engaged during the playing Commission process You know,
- we received a lot of letters and phone calls and inquiries and as soon as all of the letters went out
- You know, it's hard to do a citywide Involvement for a wide range of amendments for one thing specifically
- said the playing Commission hearings was were That engagement process as well as obviously the council
- meeting here tonight
- Okay That sounds hard to for me Again, I just feel like people are really particular about parking I
- want to also just say I don't disagree that this is a neat thing to add a teaching element I have other
- questions. I don't know if I should just keep going or if people They're not related. We see if there's
- other questions
- Daily I just have a quick clarification following up on something you answered for councilmember Rosenberger
- You said you received a lot of letters and phone calls regarding this was from community members This
- and the single-room occupancy Pieces of legislation certainly received a high number of letters from
- members of the public prior to the Planning Commission as well as at the Planning Commission hearings, okay
- And were they, what was the general?
- Overview of them where they were there some in support where there's some against how input in this
- particular ordinance I would say there was a very high number of folks that were very concerned about
- it We did see receive a lot of letters of people that were in support of it We also did receive a lot
- of letters from people that were very concerned about it You know at the risk of summarizing or speaking
- for other people, you know The concerns obviously were the incorporation of something that was viewed
- as commercial zoning within residential zones
- districts Seem to be paving a way for other possible uses that might be more impactful So yeah, thank
- you for the clarification. Thank you. Are there other councilmember questions? Councilmember Flaherty
- Yeah, first just could you Help explain the rationale for where this falls in the use table. It's under a
- Like public civic institutional uses whereas it strikes me as maybe more analogous to like Commercial
- uses or accessory uses maybe accessory uses where like home occupation lives for instance You are analogizing
- this to home occupation except for you know being outdoors So yeah first question just could you explain
- like why this fits under the civic public and institutional?
- Yeah, we put it right next to where urban agriculture non-commercial is, just because it was supposed
- to be, and it was just viewed as just a slight enhancement of that particular land use itself. Yes,
- certainly you could argue that it could probably go in retail, it could go in a number of other different
- subheadings, but we were really just kind of looking at it as a slight modification or expansion of
- that existing land use, which is also why we just called it commercial,
- Differentiate from that but you know, we were really not intending for it to be, you know a huge leap
- in terms of differences between the two Okay, so it seems like customer Marala was asking questions
- initially that kind of illustrated that Almost all of what's envisioned with this use is already covered
- by other existing uses the exception is this kind of like educational home business component and
- And I guess I'm looking at home occupation again by way of analogy in the UDO and There are some outdoor
- components to the home occupation use if I'm not mistaken, is that right? Well, if you if you look at
- the definition of home occupation, it says it occurs within a building And so that was the limitation
- that we ran into and so we we can't
- You know, you can't receive a variance from a definition. So the only way to really allow for this use
- Was to give it its own separate land use and amend the use table to incorporate it in that regard I
- guess related follow-ups. Could you also have updated home occupation to expand a little bit to include?
- Both indoor and outdoor uses. Yes, certainly that could have been a different path that would have required
- amending the definition But the concern with that with amending the definition is you then expand that
- to any other home occupation And so sometimes, you know, there are could be other home occupations for
- instance car repair that might not be appropriate You know having having somebody at their house working
- on cars late at night having cars outside of a building You know might not be appropriate. So by changing
- The definition you can allow for any number of things that maybe you didn't foresee or didn't want And
- so since we were trying to fix something for one particular area, you know It seemed better to just
- write something very specific for that use so that we're not opening up the door for anything else so
- I guess I'm sorry last fall up here I Generally I am I with zoning I think we should try to take approaches that I
- apply consistently across different types of things that are analogous. I can imagine lots of other
- outdoor uses that might not fit in this new use, but also don't fit under the home occupation. And so
- I guess my default is to prefer not something hyper-specific, but actually a set of rules that applies
- more broadly. Sorry, it seems like that was not the approach the department chose to take.
- Well, so, yeah. Sorry, I mean... No, no, that's okay. I guess I'm just trying to better understand,
- like somebody who wants to teach outdoor yoga classes, or I'm thinking of inconsistencies, too, with
- respect to parking, like Councilmember Rosenberger mentioned, and what's required in the home occupation.
- The home occupation, yes, we can't imagine everything that might go on inside the home. There is also
- this outdoor retail component that can accompany it.
- But that's, like, the example of the type of thing I like to see. So even if it's an entirely new use
- that is outdoor home occupation, I guess what I'm asking for is, like, wouldn't it be better to take
- an approach that allows different uses, including things we might not imagine, like, and just appropriately,
- like, A, it's conditional, and B, like, sets constraints around, you know, nuisance, essentially, like
- noise or pollution or otherwise. Instead of this one use.
- Yeah, certainly and so where we were coming from is we had not we had not encountered requests for home
- occupations that were running into that restriction of Everything had to occur within a building Other
- other than this situation so they you know There was a situation where somebody did go to the Board
- of Zoning Appeals and they had to deny it Because there was not a way to allow for this used to occur
- outside the building under the home occupation allowance So we had not encountered any situation where people
- People had been coming forward to do something as a home occupation that they wanted to do outside And
- so, you know without really a general impetus for fixing that and opening things up We're again just
- trying to write something that was for the very specific Challenge that was in front of us. We'd also
- never heard of that challenge until this particular instance, correct Thank you, thank you are there
- other questions I
- Okay, I see two wanting around two, so I'm gonna take one before we go to round two. And it's kind of
- following up a little bit on, if we go way back to the beginning of this with Councilmember Rallo's
- question, he theorized somebody who currently is essentially operating under the urban agriculture
- non-commercial, they're growing things, they're selling things for part of the year, do they have to
- Go and get this approval for what it is that they're doing right now just because they're making money
- off of something No, so they so the the use urban agriculture non-commercial is listed as an accessory
- use in every district You know with the use specific restrictions Or I'm sorry has a permitted use in
- every single zoning district. So, you know those
- And I know that there are a few isolated ones that are those occurring But oftentimes we don't know
- where they all are because they don't have to get an approval from us You know, I can I can certainly
- say that there are a few Vacant lots in neighborhoods that those neighborhoods are using for their local
- neighborhood garden plots But I you know, I have no idea how many there are because like I said, you
- know They don't have to get an approval from us for that use
- Wanted to clarify that because I actually got that public comment from somebody who was concerned that
- they would have to change how they were doing Like that they would have to apply for this special thing
- So if whatever you're doing right now like falls under the ud. Oh, you don't have to do that And then
- the other thing I wanted to ask again and councilmember Rallo's Kind of class situation of somebody
- who just wants to you know Have people over so that you can teach them about stuff if you're not asking
- them to pay you then
- like then it doesn't really matter right like even if you're doing it every day if you're not getting
- paid for it you're not having some kind of specific programming for it I mean I left five random teenagers
- in my house with my kids today and I mean maybe they're learning something about the chores that I expect
- them to do while I'm gone but
- Yes, so again and that's that's subjective and and we look at you know, what is the intensity of it?
- How often these things are happening? So certainly, you know if you are paying somebody for something
- that's very clear that you have hired them, you know There are some contractual arrangement that is
- happening there But if this thing is happening
- Every single week and it's a different group of people you're you're you're exceeding What is the customary
- incidental use of a property which is a single-family residence? And you know, there's not a you know,
- I can't sit here and point of you know This one thing right here trips you up every single time. It's
- a successive amount of things. It's the frequency It's the number
- You know and and we don't deal with that very often but occasionally does happen where you know, we
- have to say, okay Yes, ordinarily you did this one thing three times a year. That's not drawing our
- attention You know, that's not generating calls from neighbors. That's not you know involving us. It
- just happens and it's fine but if something is happening with such a repeated frequency or number Then
- we have to look at it a little bit differently and say, you know Is this customary and incidental or
- is this a separate use? That's that's just not
- Okay, thank you Brown to councilmember Rallo So a lot of this seems to focus on the intensity of use
- of the property so people are accustomed to a residential property having Essentially you may have a
- party every so often to you know, you use the property in that way you have a big crowd of people come
- over but What we're proposing here is for instance
- Class coming over maximum of eight students depending upon the size of your property, but max eight
- there aren't classes that really There are probably very few classes that are eight students in size
- So you would have consecutive visits of eight sixteen twenty four thirty two students. I'm envisioning
- You're nodding. Yes, so I'm
- There's no limitation on how many classes you can have a day it's just the number of people at a time
- and that's where I was going with this so then say Okay, that class visited that one last week now this
- week There's another class from a different school and that occupies three or four days every day and
- then and so forth so You could invent so there is no
- Maximum of frequency of students visiting so it could extend to that what I'm the scenario that I'm
- painting Alright, so I wanted that clarification What about value-added products? So I grow berries
- I make jam. I'm gonna sell them. Is that permitted? I
- No, so the way that the definition is written, you know You are allowed to sell the the food or the
- food products that are grown on the site But you know turning that into something else Would not be
- so the the value-added products as that is commonly referred to add Would not be something that would
- be allowed with this use, you know that you know that that becomes a lot different You know, then you're
- then you're becoming more of a grocery store or a bakery And you know, it's not a self-limiting thing
- of how much you can grow on
- But you know, I used four blueberries from this one and I made pies all year long or okay So the limitations
- kind of go away with you throw that what about you? So let's let's just let me just explore this a little
- bit. So what about compost? So I've got a compost pile and I package it. Can I sell that? What about
- seeds I grow I grow some you know rare tomato and I package the seeds and then I and then I sell them and
- That's part of the food that's a lot of selling. Yeah Okay, even though I'm okay That's within the things
- that you're selling so whether they're still in the plant or you know You've pulled them out and sold
- those separately, you know That doesn't change the fact that they were generated on that property and
- they're in it of themselves. Well, okay I would say Okay, I think this needs a little bit more exploring
- but I'm not gonna go there now. I wondered about the conditional use aspect of this and
- So the BZA could consider turning it down could they consider turning it down on the basis of? Citations
- so you've received a lot of citations say in the past for violating code and could that be essentially
- used as a sort of an Argument for turning down this use whether you shouldn't be there at all without
- the conditional use process happening first
- So, you know somebody would have you would have to make a correlation between a violation Somehow and
- its impact on this use But I mean there's not necessarily in the UDO or in that language that says if
- you know for instance, you know Other uses have language that says if you've received an NOV from the
- planning department You are not allowed to do that's use You know, we have not included that with this language
- Certainly if the council feels that something of that nature should have incorporated, you know It's
- welcome to include that as an amendment, but we we had not included that With this ordinance, I'm envisioning
- maybe some amendments coming from this so I'm I'm I guess what I'll say right now is that I'm envisioning
- this might take more than this meeting to explore this but that aside two more quick questions Does
- this use attach to the property or to the resident property?
- It runs with the property, but it could certainly be attached to a specific entity or The use that is
- on that property so it can be different I mean it can be tied to that specific user although typically
- it's not You know separate conditional uses if you say a church is approved is an appropriate use here
- You know, it doesn't necessarily matter You know what what you are worshiping in that church a church
- is a church But it could be tied to a specific entity
- And what about tax status? Do I lose my homestead exemption if I'm running a business a farm on the
- property? That's a separate question. We're not in there as long as you claim that as your residence
- I don't I'm not aware that you are prohibited from using your homestead exemption But you know that
- might be a question for the assessor. All right. Thanks I'll quit for now. All right continuing in second
- round councilmember Rosenberger Thank you
- Okay One question I thought of You have sheep on the property. It's big enough, right? They are sheep
- Are they give birth in the middle of the night in the winter, right? Can you have a class at midnight?
- for birthing sheep within this ordinance This feels so specific to me and I I
- I disagree that it needs to be specific. Like, your example of a car mechanic, wouldn't you say that
- you gave the example that cars would be parked outside and people might not like that? But if there
- are no limits on the number of classes at all per day, per week, time of day, there could then be that
- many cars parked outside all the time. I mean, are you...
- Trying to say like a car parked for 24 hours is different than a car cars coming and going all day I
- guess I feel like I would like these answered but I'll stop there Yeah, so what I what I was referring
- to I guess were oftentimes with a
- Historically, but this isn't an allowed use within the you do so I can't really point to specific situations
- You know when you've got car repair in a detached garage They might be storing a car or two or three
- in the parking in their driveway and so that might have a different impact I mean that was just one
- example I guess of you know why we were saying that it can't occur outside And like I said, we were
- just trying to solve the immediate problem at hand without trying to open up the door for others
- Thank you, this is just continuing on with that this is where I just think we could have Staff could
- have done a small use change to allow Teaching rather than create an entirely new but very specific
- use That for like grazing. I mean, okay, so we have crops and pasturage right where you're allowed to
- grow crops graze animals Let me see the definition, right?
- cell crops breed managed cell produce From the or producing livestock. We can do all of that. It can
- be an income producing property, right? That you can you can do actually milk butter cheese eggs meat
- and honey On a property already and like what is missing from that is just the ability to teach Yeah,
- that is that is certainly I guess one good distinction between us there so I
- I would like to see this instead as allowing people who have Home jobs to teach so I do think it's important
- that a mechanic can teach and like what about woodworking Is that allowed right now in this? Yes, so
- you you can do that. So the challenge was that occurring outside of a building
- That's the difference, you know, it's not the teaching thing It's that it's occurring not inside the
- primary dwelling unit or the accessory structure. That's that's the the challenge that the definition
- of home occupation was presenting so you so something like Something that happens outside like swimming
- you have a pond in your backyard and city or you have a pool Can you teach swim lessons not in a pool
- in your backyard? No, and you could not do that under here, but you can teach a
- Right like someone to like butcher a cow I Would say probably no if that is a class that they are paying
- for and it's not occurring within a building the definition of home Occupation would not allow that
- but but this ordinance this use change would allow this type of property to have a class for butchering a cow
- Under this ordinance. Yeah, you could do that. There's no limitation on what you're teaching You know
- as long as it's associated with the well, I mean the definition really is kind of Raising crops of that
- nature. I mean, I hadn't really thought it I guess that love. Yeah. Yeah, okay Just yeah, just asking
- if you do like right making butter making cheese things like that but I understand we're not to have
- like cottage businesses that like we're not allowed to
- Makejam at home or anything. That's like health department level and it's different. I get that Okay,
- I think that's I mean I can kind of quit for right now, but I do I mean I do think that I Do just think
- that there I mean, I don't know as a lawyer I don't I think that there's a huge gray area here and it
- like I think that we should allow more Outside home teaching. I don't think it should be set to a specific
- use and I think kind of
- Ask what you think about this. Okay, it is that just that like Because it also borders on like why did
- we not do public? Engagement because like someone don't you agree some miss Rallo, right? Don't you
- agree? Somebody could be more offended with a cow on a property even though that's already allowed right
- but a cow on a property then like someone storing a car on a property I just think we should have engaged
- the public and I think we can do it easier. What do you think? I
- So I like I said, I you know the public engagement process was you know occurring during the Plain Commission
- meeting, you know is three months That that was happening Yes, we certainly could have had very specific
- meetings for this I don't I don't know that we would necessarily would have gleaned any more information
- that wasn't obtained
- during the Plan Commission meetings. We heard the comments, we heard the concerns and the questions.
- The ordinance language was changed several times during the course of those meetings as we responded
- to the comments that came out. So the Plan Commission meetings is, I mean, that's the purpose. One of
- the purposes of the Plan Commission meeting is to give a public forum for questions and answers and
- discussion. And like I said, this occurred several times
- Commission means and you know here at council and so that's what we were describing when we had interactions
- with the members of the public were You know, we had meetings with folks. We had lots of meetings with
- people in the office before it even got to the Playing Commission you know, we had lots of Back-and-forth
- discussion both email and in person and over the phone with members of the public So there was a lot
- of engagement that happened with the public specifically and you know, we certainly grasped the challenges
- that people
- We're encountering and so we wrote the ordinance to try to address that, you know address how many people
- are on their property because that's what zoning does You know, we regulate intensity and land uses
- and and how do you balance those things? You mentioned earlier about You sort of said in passing
- What this I'm sorry that I'm paraphrasing your statement, but you said something to the extent of if
- this went to the full, you know scale that was that was possible and so sort of following on on these
- on these questions First off, what is the scale that you see is possible in this context? Well, so the
- scale would be something, you know where this happens every day
- You know and without you know any you know, there's no limitations in here on number of frequency So,
- you know, how do you how do you somewhat balance the intensity of the use on the property assuming that
- it happens? You know every day every day of the week every day of the year And so that's where we were
- approaching it from, you know, just limiting the number of people that were on the property You know
- somewhat the hours of operation the size of the structures You know the the scale of the uses that happen
- there, you know, those are the things that we tried to
- incorporate in the use specific restrictions So, you know, obviously as you're aware enough the council
- feel that there's other restrictions that should be Included or imposed, you know that you're fully
- empowered to add whatever additional language you might feel would be appropriate and and would you
- have the same concerns with swimming to the to the question that was asked before in terms of its scaling
- like would you feel like you had to put a constraint on it if we were talking about swimming lessons
- in my own pool and
- Well, so I think it depends you know with anything of and you know this goes back to what I was just
- mentioning about zoning and regulate intensity and impacts on adjacent properties, you know if we were you know
- Home occupation restrictions restrict how much of your house you can use for that So that is a size
- limitation that restricts the intensity in and of itself So when you open up the outside You've taken
- away that restriction of how much of a property or a building is self-limiting in terms of intensity
- You know, you can only you can only teach so many people piano at one time You know when you open up
- your entire outside for something
- then it can certainly be appropriate to regulate the number of people that are on there because the
- size limitation has gone away. So yes, to answer your question, if this was swimming lessons, then yeah,
- we very well could be having a discussion of how many people per class size would be appropriate.
- And then just the last question on this is that a lot of residents have reached out to us about the
- concerns around our abilities to enforce any type of the mechanisms that we're putting in place to deal
- with both scale, noise, et cetera. What are your thoughts on our ability as a city to enforce or regulate
- conditional use?
- Yeah, so we have several staff members in our department that deal with enforcement, and they are busy
- on a regular basis. So we deal with enforcement activities all the time, and that happens, and that
- comes to our attention in a variety of ways. It could be through you reports. It could be through people
- that contact us directly. It could be things that staff notices on a site. And so when we deal with
- enforcement activities, we reach out to somebody and let them know, hey, we've received a complaint.
- you know, you have a certain time period to bring it into compliance. Otherwise, you know, fines can
- be assessed. And so we pursue those, and we have evidence both that is just given to us by adjacent
- neighbors sometimes, information that we gather ourselves, you know, anything that we can to assess
- whether or not a violation has occurred or is occurring. You know, we can pursue that. You know, to
- the best of our ability, we can, you know, have a wide range of assets to try to figure out if violations
- are occurring.
- Thank you. I'm gonna pass the gavel over to councilmember Piedmont Smith because I think now might be
- a good time to introduce the amendment Yes councilmember Stossberg I would like to move amendment one
- to ordinance 2025 32 Thank you, I'm and I hope staff are you ready to put my little purple line document
- up Okay, so
- As the Plan Commission person, I've been through several of these hearings already and thought about
- this an awful lot, which is one of the reasons why I have this amendment, as I said in the memo that
- was in the addendum today. And so what was in the addendum today, which is why I want to show it as
- a little different than what was in the packet on Friday, I added a few things that I didn't have time
- to do before.
- The original packet went out on Friday. So there's five main things that it does. The first three were
- all the Friday things. One of that was changing the name from Urban Agriculture Commercial to Urban
- Agriculture Farmstead.
- adding a setback requirement for agricultural stands from the right-of-way and including all of the
- our zones in the use specific standards that Applied to our one through our four and then the two things
- that I added in the packet this week was making changes to the permitting in the mixed-use zones and
- then updating the use specific standards and then
- We realized that the definition of greenhouse non-commercial also needed to be updated. So in terms
- of what's on the screen right now, I don't know if you can see that, but it is in the packet addendum
- if you need to look at that. The first change there in purple is
- Renaming urban agriculture commercial to urban agriculture farmstead and one of the reasons I did that
- so there were several people at the Plan Commission level that were really concerned about that idea
- of commercial operations in residential areas and
- I really did feel like the commercial word didn't quite fit with the residential areas I don't feel
- like farmstead necessarily fits well with the mixed-use areas But I would rather have something that
- doesn't fit well with mixed use than something that doesn't fit well with residential and This also
- came from the BCOS Group the Bloomington Commission on sustainability who defined some terms including
- farmstead as an accessory use and if you actually look at kind of the details of
- the differences between This I'll start calling it farmstead use and the non commercial use They're
- really relatively small changes in terms of code and what is actually allowed So I felt like farmstead
- was really a more appropriate term to use especially for the residential districts So that was my reasoning
- for changing that to farmstead second if you look at the allowed use table under the mixed use districts
- I added the asterisks to
- some of to all of the mixed-use zones where I left it as a permitted use that signifies that there are
- you specific standards that then would also have to apply to the mixed-use zones and We can talk about
- that more later if yeah, I'll talk about that more later But then I also eliminated the permitted use
- from some of those spaces so I took it out of the MN which is mixed-use neighborhood because those
- We don't have very much MN and they were specifically designed to be like neighborhood node kind of
- areas. And so I didn't feel like this use was necessarily appropriate in those, you know, kind of selective
- neighborhood mixed use neighborhood zones. I also took it out of the downtown because once again, that
- doesn't seem like it fit well and we only have one very small parcel that is mixed use healthcare right
- now. So I decided we just don't need it in there and we don't actually have any
- Zone any area of the city zoned em for employment. So I was like, why do we need to put that in there?
- I felt like that was just excessive. So that explains that page if we want to scroll down To the language
- once again upstairs updating farmstead In that first line there a one It was
- That originally was just talking about greenhouses and hoop houses being limited. And so I had to add
- in, because I had used specific standards on the mixed use districts, I had to add in that, okay, those
- greenhouse and hoop house limitations are for those R districts. And then I added in section two for
- the mixed use districts, the standards for accessory structures for that base zoning district apply
- to greenhouses and hoop houses.
- Section four down there. I added the five foot setback from the right-of-way and my reasoning for that
- was that Currently so this language originally came directly from the non-commercial use but in that
- non-commercial use You're restricted at the number of days that you can sell things a year. But in this
- Use you could sell things every day all year long. And so I felt like at that point you can have a more permanent
- Agricultural stand and that it was appropriate to have that set back from say the sidewalk or the street
- and not have it right up on those public right-of-ways But I didn't want to set it back 10 feet because
- there are some smaller properties that might only have a 10-foot setback from the sidewalk already So
- setting it back 5 feet would make it an accessible thing for even smaller properties
- Added in that section on number four about the unless otherwise allowed in terms of fences just to make
- sure if in one of the mixed-use zones There was a greater allowance for fences that that would still
- hold true in that mixed-use zone And operational standards number one I added in the restrictions for
- residential multifamily residential high density and residential mobile home because I felt like those
- were all very residential districts and that those retail sales prohibitions should Also be maintained
- in those districts and not just the are ones through our force And then there's also an incidence of
- farmstead needing to be replaced for urban number two There's also a farmstead reference that had to
- get changed number four
- once again adding in those other Residential zoning districts in terms of the power equipment and generators
- and I also added the MS zoning district in there because at this point the mixed-use student district
- is really highly residential and So I thought that it was important to have those more specific Timed
- noise ordinance standards, but in other districts the noise ordinance standards will apply which is
- sunrise to sunset and
- Orp sunset to sunrise Number five added in that residential mobile home to the and number six actually
- to the employee and educational classes limitations because once again I felt like it was important
- to group that residential zone with the other residential zones That's kind of an equity issue. And
- then in number eight it is specifying that the additional drive cut is only allowed in those residential zones
- And then we can scroll down. I think next we go to the definitions for changes. It was kind of realized,
- hey, we have this definition for greenhouses, and it says greenhouse non-commercial. But really, it's
- just a greenhouse, whether it's commercial or not in terms of how it's being used in this. So it's just
- taking out the non-commercial out of greenhouse and just calling it an accessory or temporary.
- structure of glass And then the urban agriculture farmstead definition of putting farmstead in two places
- purposefully leaving the Educational activities conducted on the property related to urban agriculture
- leaving that as as urban in there and I think that that covers it any questions for me and
- I'm sorry. I forgot that I was sharing Councilmember sorry Thanks so much. I'm councilmember Sasper.
- Could you tell us a bit about? And I don't know if this is the most relevant time to ask this but the
- three who voted no on the plan Commission because they haven't updated the minutes yet And I haven't
- had a chance to watch the meeting Do you know why they voted no? And are and oh boy I I
- I will be honest right now and say that that was a meeting I missed due to a health issue. So I'm not
- gonna remember exactly who voted no, I did watch it. The primary reasons were, I think one person just
- didn't think that it should be in residential, and I can't remember, maybe there were two like that.
- One of the interesting things about,
- Having been on the Planning Commission now for for almost two years There have definitely been moments
- where things got forwarded to council not because the Planning Commission thought that it was perfect
- or really ready to go but that because they felt like it had been fussed with enough at that level and
- That it was ready to go to another level for maybe more fine-tuning fussing and so one of the things
- like the the mixed-use stuff when I asked Mr. Grulick about that he was like well I'm not gonna get
- into the philosophy of whether we should allow this use downtown and
- But I was like, well, as a council member, I can get into that in terms of philosophy, whether I think
- that we should allow this use downtown. And I don't think that we should, just in terms of density and
- space and how that works. And there was a community member who talked to me a lot about vertical growing.
- So yeah, vertical growing could maybe work downtown. But then we would have to maybe get into some real
- restrictions, like only allowing vertical growing. And I just felt like that was a headache that I didn't
- want to take on. And if somebody in downtown wants to do this,
- Be a conversation later down the road in terms of writing in those extra restrictions. So yeah, I mean
- I there was also a tie vote for Continuing it to the next meeting. So there was a four four tie which
- then failed to continue it for one more meeting So there were definitely some people who thought that
- maybe at the plan Commission level they should make more
- Changes and then some people who were like no, I think that we've made enough changes There was a motion
- that failed to get a second to forward it to us with no recommendation So I hope that that helps One
- super quick follow-ups just pertinent to the amendment itself the the emphasis of Not being able to
- constrain the amount of days and that was at you added this language or no, I
- No, that was already there that they could that they could sell All year that that's one of the differences
- between the non-commercial and the farmstead Awesome. Thank you. Sure Other questions about the amendment
- Councilmember Rallo Well, this is kind of a process question So this is a complicated topic the Plain
- Commission was and had some ambiguity about whether to
- Continue working on it. It now comes to us You offered an amendment in the packet on Friday, but you've
- modified it There may be other amendments coming I don't know I think that you know what I'm hearing
- from all my colleagues. I'm wondering about If this was if there was a motion later to continue To postpone
- consideration to November
- Fifth How we could handle this particular motion that's on the table But it would with the proper thing
- to do would be to withdraw it in order to consider you know, we maybe we can discuss this but we could
- withdraw it at some point in order to consider potential other things and Just as a courtesy because
- some of these things that were added were just added
- And people living in these districts don't even may even not know not know about it yet So that's my
- question Well, I think I can respond a part of it but maybe staff needs to respond a part of it too
- in terms of people living in those districts and things that have just changed it was if anything like
- my changing the mixed-use stuff actually limited it more and
- And so yeah, I guess what you're saying is if somebody lives in there and they expected it to be permitted
- and now it's not Would they be given a chance to comment that that's a good question. I think that Whether
- or not this passes doesn't exclude future amendments from coming and I thought about splitting this
- up into multiple amendments But at that point if you guys remember several meetings ago
- Councilmember Flaherty amend it was the Transportation Commission thing councilmember Flaherty amended
- the language and then councilmember rough did another like like repeal and replace and then it became
- this really confusing bit of like one amendment really needed to They needed to be attached in a way
- that they weren't attached so I just stuck it all into one and that's why this is all one amendment
- and why I changed it from the one on Friday, otherwise it would have been a whole separate amendment
- Besides a notification now suppose there are amendments that could be developing that would then Amend
- this amendment that was then passed this evening. That's kind of a Awkward and confusing way in which
- we Derived the final product it seems to me and I'm a little wary of that Attorney liner, do you have
- any guidance on this?
- Council could entertain a motion to postpone this main question and then the subsidiary Amendments also
- would be postponed as well Just with that one motion to postpone does that answer your question I Thought
- we had to dispose of the amendment before we go to the consideration of the of the ordinance as amended and
- But we could Are you saying I? Mean I there's public here that want to speak. I want to make sure that
- they're allowed to speak on the entirety of it To allow the public comment to her to occur tonight on
- the main question, I think the question is Is it possible to
- Postpone this amendment even though a motion has already been made for this amendment Would it be up
- to the sponsor of the amendment to decide to postpone or not? Or is there some way the council can Weigh
- in I need to look that up I think if the main question is postponed then all of the amendments are thereby
- also postponed
- But let me check in Robert's rules with respect to simply postponing the amendment itself. Well, is
- that the question? I guess so. I mean, we the motion of adopting the whole thing is on the table to
- write this motion for amendment. So which and I think that main motion could be postponed.
- But my understanding is you'd like to receive the public comment.
- Tonight as well, correct? I believe so councilmember Stasper. Yeah, I mean I would like the public to
- comment on this amendment as well But depending on how council feels after receiving the comment on
- the amendment if there's ambivalence Then I would probably prefer to withdraw it as it is and then
- Have comments on the whole thing and then postpone as kind of a personal preference But I also am totally
- amenable in terms of you know recognizing that this isn't perfect but also recognizing that in terms
- of like stacking amendments, I think it's
- It might be really hard to get one amendment that includes like all the things and and so this is a
- repeal and replace amendment where it just replaces attachment a and so, you know, I'm also amenable
- to then an additional amendment changing this one including the language that I Changed like if somebody
- then wants to take something out like I mean, I think that that would be okay. So Does that make sense
- comes member Rallo?
- So I'm good with either I just do want to have the public comments on the amendment and I'd rather not
- vote on it and withdraw it tonight then have it fail because people generally just aren't ready for
- this piece of legislation I Was gonna second that I like the second option just because I mean it seems
- that we're all Gravitating in the postponement direction. So I would rather that we could quickly get
- to public comment and
- not bore them with any more procedure, and then we can reintroduce the amendment when we next take this up.
- Just a second though consideration here is that whether we should consider? postponing or rather referring
- to a Different type of gathering for us so that we can talk about this in different way like for example
- to a committee of a whole meeting that is at a different time so that we don't run into that we postpone
- to next meeting and then we you know like it puts all this different type of time pressure on us, so
- So we could refer to a council of the whole and schedule a special session or something like that. I
- I think councilmember Flaherty was next No, you're good councilmember Daley I mean we do have a deliberation
- session coming up with nothing. No No, we don't In terms of state code when we get something from the
- Plan Commission we have to respond to it within 90 days and if we as council do not respond within 90
- days then whatever the Plan Commission did at the Plan Commission level goes
- So I had several people tell me that they wanted to push this off as long as they could Which means
- that we have the space in terms of our calendar to postpone until November 5th But we have to act on
- November 5th and I want to say that is one of the reasons why we had first reading two weeks ago so
- that people had two weeks before the second reading to
- To make considerations about this and November 5th is two weeks away at this point. That's another two
- weeks So we could in theory have some kind of a work session next Wednesday night if people were available
- But we have to act on November 5th or whatever the Planning Commission says goes Thank you Okay, this
- is reminding me of
- The towing ordinance that we did last term where it came to us in a form that wasn't ready for code
- and like I don't agree that We should shop this ourselves. This is a staff led UDO change and like I
- I personally like don't want to spend a whole work session trying to make this fit into our code like
- I think this
- a convoluted way to allow teaching on properties outside and I think it can be way simpler I guess like
- as an attorney this Just creates so much uncertainty like okay. I call up and I want this is
- for councilmember Stossberg I call up I want to start a farm. Do you suggest I? Do crops and pasture
- or do you suggest I do urban agriculture? I
- It was a question for Hopi, okay because We're talking we're actually supposed to be addressing the
- amendment right now. This is about the amendment because the use in the use table on her on this amendment
- I Can do crops and pasture as a necessary anywhere in this city? But then I if I want to teach I can
- only do it some places but then if I start as crops and pasture I
- Don't have to have my soil quality checked. But if I ever want to teach I do have to have my soil quality
- like there's a lot more Regulation around urban agriculture than there is around crops and pasture and
- the overlap is like 90% so I guess I just think we're adding a use that basically exists just for the
- purpose of adding a teaching outside element yes, and my legal brain I just like
- Why would I ever do urban agriculture if I can do crops and pasture? The crops and pasture like I did
- not compare all of the uses in the use table Like I was looking at this one. I spoke with staff about
- the overlap in different places Crops and pasture did not come up as much as
- I'm scrolling Orchard came up plant nursery or greenhouse came up crops and pastures did not come up
- So, you know, I I did not read that all the way front to back I think that mr. Gulick might have a reason
- in terms of crops and pasturage, but it would take me longer than I think is useful right now to To
- do that kind of comparison. I and I thank you and I mean maybe I
- Director Gorlich can answer this that I like I guess I don't understand how we would or who decides
- if your crops and pasture or urban ag and What if you want to switch from one to the other? I mean then
- farmstead says you can't have farmstead is doing everything but livestock, but then Crops and pasture
- you can already have livestock all over the city. I
- Councilmember Rosenberger is this specifically about the changes? This is about the amendment Yes, because
- the changes that were already proposed without the amendment. It is in the amendment see a yeah urban
- Agri is in the use table. It's in the use table I'm asking why would we have different uses for urban
- agriculture? Allowances than we do for crops and pasture Is that something that
- Planning staff can address. Yes Yes, so crops and pasturage, you know That's allowed as a permitted
- use and that could be the only use that occurs on the property Whereas the urban ag non-commercial is
- secondary to a residence that is occurring there. So you could have both certainly you could have You
- know you live there and then you have crops and and pasturage, you know if if that's allowed in that
- district as well and you know, I said
- When you asked us earlier, you know, like we've never had We don't have any there's one property in
- the city that has crops and passage on it And so we've and it's just crops, you know So we don't have
- this situation where everyone anyone has ever asked us Could I teach people on my farm how to do this
- or that because we just don't have that? I
- So it's so we've never had to answer that question It's actually crops and pastures as an accessory
- use everywhere except for our one. Yes Yeah, so, you know, the r1 is the big lots, right? And there's
- only a handful of properties that are that are zoned for that and only one of those actually has is
- Crop everything else is just houses. I mean, that's okay. It's just allowed is the thing the udio allows
- it right and
- Pigs in the city, which is kind of neat Okay, I mean this is just part of my point that I Don't feel
- like crops and pasturage was considered and they are almost the same thing Yes, they're in and that
- that's You're not wrong
- As we were looking at and we were trying to write language that would allow for something very specifically
- without having trying to say well it's kind of like this. But it's not like that because it's a house
- first and foremost and they're doing this other thing.
- Since we were amending the use table. We approach it from their perspective Let's just write the one
- thing that clearly allows what we're trying to do, you know without trying to change something else
- and expand it Let's write the one thing and we can also write
- use-specific limitations that might govern what we had already kind of encountered would be some concerns
- with this specific use. So by allowing it as a specific use, it allowed us to write use-specific limitations
- that maybe we don't want in the other situation for crops and pasturage or something else, and so we
- could tailor it to exactly this use. Thank you. I still assert that this line of questioning is really
- about the ordinance itself and not so much about
- The amendment so let's be careful there councilmember Stossberg Just want to add I just kind of went
- through the crops and pastures really quick and kind of compared it the crops and pastures doesn't conceive
- of a lot of things that the urban agriculture farmstead does conceive of in terms of Accessory structures
- and like greenhouse standards and selling things on the property and a lot of those other pieces that
- go along with
- Urban agriculture so I do think that that they're different but there is overlap and and it it's the
- kind of thing that like maybe it could be trimmed down but this is you know debatably the the right
- time to do that and I was very sticking very specifically looking at this usage that is that is the
- new usage and Trying to consider this language when I made the use table changes in terms of allowances
- should go to the public now to comment on amendment one and because the the amendment has changed since
- Friday's packet and it as we've seen with the disagreement between myself and Councilman Rosenberger
- is kind of unclear like what comments are just on the amendment and which are on the ordinance if any
- member of the public wants to comment on this amendment I'm not going to be a stickler as to whether or
- You're commenting specifically on the amendment or on the ordinance proposed. So let's just treat this
- as open public comment at this point on the question of urban agriculture. If you have the amendment
- in front of you and you have something specific of course that would be preferable. So any public comment
- you can come up to the podium.
- Do not know if we will get another public comment period on the whole thing tonight because there's
- a seems to be a movement to postpone it. So please take your chance now. Um, and, uh, you need to sign
- in at the podium and then state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. And then
- we'll also check on zoom, um, after a few people here. Go ahead, sir.
- Thank you. My name is Jeff steak. I teach at the law school I teach property law and I teach land use
- controls. I live just outside the city limits So technically I don't think I can be here, but I'm hoping
- that sometime I will be incorporated into the city limits I did not impose did not oppose the annexation
- when we had a chance before
- So I guess I just want to make the comments that are sort of general they'd speak to both the amendment
- and the the original proposal
- The larger the change that's involved the more potential for disruption that there is from that change
- and the disruptions we're talking about here are people's Lives and homes and where they live and they're
- a pretty big deal to a lot of people people have invested Maybe many times almost all of their their
- Assets into their homes and then we're talking about changing them in fairly dramatic ways now the farmstead
- may be a less dramatic way than the
- than the original proposal, which would be a good thing. But both of them have, well, in both
- the conversations, the topic of education has come up, and it seems that solving the problem with education
- Reforms to the land use controls might be a better way than trying to change all the uses of the underlying
- uses that we have here But I don't know whether it would but I think it it might it might be a smaller
- change that would upset people less so I worry about the people who have Put their hard-earned money
- into this hour also worry about their neighborhoods. We've already seen one neighborhood basically be
- disrupted by this potential change and we're asking for
- Trouble it seems to me when we allow big changes to Areas that have already been planned and big changes
- that are not really needed in some ways I think this will make a minimal effect on that food supply
- in America. There's not going to be much difference there and there are
- Going to be and there is the opportunity for people to do all these farming activities only a couple
- miles away You don't have to go far in order to be able to do all the things that people want to do
- and so a commercial operation or a farmstead operation It seems to me is not really a needed change
- and will cause huge disruption to people People's lives and to their neighborhoods. I'm also worried
- about the the reliance on government it really seems to me that this is going to undermine people's
- faith in the
- government. People buy into neighborhoods, they put their money in there and they're counting on the
- zoning and they're counting on these regulations and then along come big changes and
- I can't count on the government. I've got to do things for myself. I've got to take my own approach
- by buying into a neighborhood that already has some planning that is done through covenants and servitudes.
- With regard to the can this be rescinded later? Probably not. This is going to be a takings problem.
- As soon as people get invested in this, you're going to run headlong into the Fifth Amendment. You're
- going to have that problem. So I wouldn't count on any ability to rescind any of this in the future.
- Pardon that's your time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Who else would like to give a public comment Do
- we have any hands raised online we do okay, let's take one more here in person and then we'll go to
- a zoom participant
- Excuse me James Glenn and I Want to go through a briefly a letter that that I've sent to most all of
- you or my wife has But I think some of you may not have gotten it and So I'm gonna read as much as I
- can in two minutes and 45 seconds We're here to express our opposition to this utl proposal
- Because it allows establishments in residential neighborhoods across Bloomington. We understand that
- the title is now farmstead but the there are no significant changes in the stipulations from the commercial
- proposal so To repeat that with what we've said before is that we support the current urban agriculture
- UTO provision and thinks it supplies everything needed in our city the inhabitants can
- Cultivate grow sell market their wares and we think a dedicated gardening can do that within the current
- UDO So we have a few Comments about policies and I'll go through as many as I can. There's no specific
- orders of importance, but We feel that the city could is opening itself to conflict liability and lawsuits
- about property owners rights As Jeff just said
- Policy changes are likely to put the city at risk because they open up residential properties to a variety
- of business uses with very few restrictions and how this policy would be controlled or what And are
- we already had outside entities threatening To come up with legal action
- Also, it was brought up earlier. What about taxation? Do they get to keep their homestead credit even
- though it's a business? How are the properties going to be taxed? Are they in competition with the commercial
- districts that are already taxed at a different way? Are they a competition with the farm store? That's
- downtown, which I'm sure has to pay commercial property taxes What about water use where they be charged
- a different rate is it
- Irrigation taxation who went through some water issues a few weeks ago in the council How the properties
- be managed they allow rental plots? And how does that affect the total number of people on them on the
- property? Are they students are they employees? What are the limitations on that? It talks about runoff
- into neighboring properties, but what about runoff into streams that
- Propagate downstream and affect other people not even associated with the property The rules on the
- right away we were confused about in the amendment why it was reduced to five feet And we still understand
- that one and the educational component we talked about carbon footprint Bringing people into the property
- from schools every tenant every every day would Not facilitate mr. Glenn that time is up
- Thank you So I'm Connie cook Glenn I'm at 1300 South Brooks directly south of the spear properly so
- I want to propose that we look at
- The Indiana Farm to School project that is very successful in Ellitsville. The children are growing
- food on the school properties. It's completely equitable because nobody has to drive. The carbon footprint
- is very low. No buses have to come to any homes.
- I think it's a fantastic program. It is looking at bringing organic growing on a regular basis to all
- of the public schools in several cities in Indiana. I'd love to see that as an alternative. I'm very
- concerned about 360 days of commercial or farm studies. I just don't understand. We've been told by
- two city officials that there would be no enforcement.
- I'm glad to hear that Erica said the opposite tonight, but that is not what we've been told. We've also,
- we're concerned about it feeling like a mandate. Our block is very aware of it. I don't think that other
- neighborhood associations have dealt with it. Anyway, the ones that I've talked to, they know nothing
- about it. So we're opposed to the change. We'd really like to meet again and be able to talk about it.
- There are lots of other concerns that we have. One is property values. We only bought our house five
- years ago, as Jeff said. It's a major investment, a huge, huge investment. We have one neighbor who's
- working three jobs to pay their mortgage.
- Is that really what we want to change and make the public feel like they can't trust that? I mean, I
- think it's it's quite an issue Maybe property values don't occur to others But when we look at the house
- across the street that has been unable to be sold It's really really a problem And we've understand
- that to be because of the neighborhood character that has already been changed
- I'm gonna ask you to really look at everybody's opinion, not just the proposal that is in front of you.
- I also wanna read a very quick thing from Deputy Mayor Knapp, which she responded to me very recently
- when I sent a note in asking if we could meet with her. She said,
- I'm very aware and sympathetic to the neighborhood response. I've personally been to the property in
- question. As I told the Spears at the time, the issue is not whether gardening is good.
- or whether their organization is nonprofit. Carding is good. Nonprofits are good. She didn't say that,
- my editorial. The issue is the location of the endeavor and its impact on the neighborhood. Like other
- city staff, I urge them to work with their neighbors and to consider locations already zoned to be suitable
- to their enterprise. One second. Thank you so much. Thanks for all the work that you do. We've been
- to several meetings. It's amazing to see your dedication. So thank you.
- Thank you, let's go to Zoom and go to the first person with the hand raised on Zoom. Please state your
- name clearly for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes. Hello, my name is Joseph Winnia.
- I'm a resident of the city of Bloomington and I would like to speak in general support of the proposed
- urban agriculture farmstead land use and its amendment as well. I appreciate the council members' questions
- and considerations.
- and I share your sense of importance of making the amendment as robust as possible, though I really
- hope that the intended goals of the amendment don't end up dying in the process. In the midst
- of a destabilizing climate, I would argue that it's actually very important to allow for a greater ability
- to grow and distribute food hyperlocally, and to allow for the education for others to do so as well.
- And I guess lastly, I'd just like to note that this amendment really precisely fulfills the city's climate
- action plan goal FA3, which is to increase and stabilize the local food market and specifically its
- action item FA3A2, which is to revise zoning ordinances to remove barriers to urban agriculture. So
- once again, I appreciate the council's consideration and I hope that you also see the value and the
- necessity of the goals of this amendment. Thank you. Thank you.
- Let's have the next person on zoom and then we'll come back to in person Up to three minutes and we've
- asked that you start by stating your name clearly Thank you. My name is Daniel cockles CEO NK le Like
- professor steak. I'm a professor in the law school, but I have no expertise with respect to zoning and
- I do have nonetheless one specific comment about the proposed amendment in that I don't know if this
- was in the original version, but there appears to be a discrepancy in terms of the question asked earlier
- by Council Member Rollo about value added products under operational standards under the amended version
- of urban agriculture farmstead operational standards
- point one is consistent with what Mr. Grulick said, basically that the exception is for the sale of
- produce grown on that site in an unprocessed form. Conversely, if you look at the definitional provision
- under urban agriculture farmstead a few pages later, the reference on the second line of the text is
- to the sale of food products from food grown on the premises
- which seems to be a bit broader and maybe would create the potential for selling things like jam, jelly,
- and whatever, which I think Mr. Wheelock said was not part of the intention. My more general comment
- is simply that I agree with the comments of the members of council who indicated that this really was,
- and I would suggest should be, about outdoor educational activities and deciding what the appropriate
- limits on such activities ought to be
- rather than, for example, expanding the potential for hoop houses from 15 feet high to 20 feet high,
- expanding sales from 180 days to 365 days, permitting the greenhouse and hoop houses to be not just
- 25% of the property space, but 50%. All of those things seem to be an expansion that could quite dramatically
- affect residential neighborhoods.
- and I don't see what the justification is for those particular aspects of the proposal. My final point
- would be that with respect to the BZA standards for permitting conditional uses, it seems to me remarkable
- if Mr. Gruelich is correct, that prior violations of city code cannot be considered with respect to
- an applicant for a conditional use. If that is in fact the case, then I would suggest
- that in the context of this proposal or otherwise, city council ought to correct that matter and make
- it clear that indeed the BCA could take account of such matters. I appreciate very much all the time
- and attention. I'm very impressed by how members of council have carefully looked at this and I appreciate
- everything you do for the city. Thank you. Thank you.
- We come back to live and in person here in council chambers the next speaker, please Thank you. This
- is Christopher mg again as a resident of Bloomington not and any other capacity Just going by the discourse
- and I was hoping to learn something and this has been kind of a convoluted discussion
- over something that's not even by right you do limit and one thing that I want to just make sure that
- anything time it got anything goes to the bza it's a process this is not something that Anyone takes
- lightly that goes into that and into that process I'm gonna be here tomorrow night and I'm not looking
- forward to it at all the other thing is how much
- we're sort of weighing in on getting the public engagement aspect of it. We heard last week
- at the Preservation Commission, I always say discourse meeting, but anyway, about what those neighborhood
- associations, what sort of input you're getting from them and if that is really of the neighborhood
- and of the residents as a whole. I live in Sunnyslope. We don't have an active one. So I question how much on a
- Conditional use UDO amendment. We need to do each time we change that we have elected officials. You
- are elected officials You're getting input from your constituents and making decisions for us don't
- that don't discount that aspect of what you do and what we count on you to do is make good educated
- decisions and Have a philosophy that we voted for or against You your candidacy as an elected official
- so it's important to sort of
- Realize when we go into these things that not everything can have complete public engagement over every
- little thing that we change in the UDO Here's I don't take the neighbors lightly. I think these are
- good concerns. I don't have an opinion on this whatsoever I'm just trying to learn what it
- what it constitutes, but we just Need to keep that within reason because it historic preservation last
- week We didn't think that was a good indicator those neighborhood associations were those sort of fringe
- people very engaged
- with Events here in the city. So I just wanted to want to kind of get some balance here as I sit through
- this sort of long discussion On the UDO amendment by appreciate everybody's time and effort on this.
- It is hard It is difficult and as we've gone more Longer on this process more questions are being asked
- and I don't I don't have a way out of this any Easier than any of you. So I wish you good luck. I
- Thank you. Do we have anybody else in council chambers who would like to make a comment? Please be sure
- to sign in and then state your name and you'll have up to three minutes Hi Steve Olin I Look at this
- from two different perspectives one is as a former
- Member of the Parking Commission current member of the Transportation Commission, although I am not
- speaking for either Commission I'm speaking only as somebody who's had experience with them that whenever
- I hear discussion about transportation With respect to an ordinance like this especially when it comes
- to parking I try to encourage decision makers and residents alike that there are tools for addressing
- concerns about traffic
- And parking certainly the neighborhood parking zones that the city has had for more than 30 years Have
- been successful at they've proven they can regulate the use of the public right of way in a neighborhood
- and while Those still need some adjusting In fact adjusted ones might be able to help in a situation
- like this one But I'd also like to point out
- that almost 20 years ago there was a debate in this chamber about the mere possession of chickens in
- 2006 and again in 2011. I remember the objections to chickens at the time. They were noisy. They were
- smelly. There's a threat of avian flu.
- But the ordinance in 2006 was as rigid as it could be. It called for hens and no roosters, a limit of
- five. The hen house had to be made of streeted materials and set back from the street. And every property
- owner adjacent to the petitioner had to agree to not object to living next door to a chicken. And yet
- those objections still came up.
- Fear without basis. And I wanted to bring that up now just to say, I don't hear anything different in
- this proposal. I hear fear of change, which I understand, but I don't think that we should be making
- our decisions purely on what we're afraid of, what might happen.
- What? People are afraid are going to happen without necessarily any hard evidence to back it up. So
- In that spirit, I would urge you to consider It is what the wit I would use I Hope you consider it in
- that spirit. Thank you Thank you. Let's go back to zoom. Is there anybody else with a hand raised online?
- Once you're unmuted
- please start by clearly stating your name and then you will have up to three minutes. Hello, my name
- is Jamie Scholl. I'm a commissioner on BCOS and have created a document that's being heard now and which
- council member Stossberg had mentioned in regards to some of the definitions that we have
- We pulled out and we're working on that document. So if anyone wants to tune in to that meeting, we'll
- be talking about it next session. I want to address a few different things. I had written a letter to
- the editor of the HT regarding the history of the Bloomington community.
- farmers market. I've been looking for this for over a year. I found that Mayor Frank McCloskey in the
- 1970s, like 74, 75, had wanted to create this. It was in the height of the oil embargo during a recession,
- a very deep recession, so that community members had a location to sell plants, produce, and other goods.
- It was an accepted use
- throughout the city to be able to grow food or other products to sell them plants and things like that.
- Let's see, I have some notes here. As someone who's been attending and growing and doing things like
- this in UA since
- for a long time, but especially in the city since 2008, the terminology is a bit confusing. Crops and
- pasture is UA. Orchards is part of urban agriculture as well. So to have those different is a bit confusing
- for the general public who are interested in this.
- I'm going to refer back to the Bloomington Food Policy Council. I was a founding member of that. Our
- first survey report showed that those who participate in food gardening in Bloomington are organically
- based, unlike the chem lawns and flower gardening, which have more chemicals. I want to appreciate those who
- talking about property values because I do believe aesthetics is important. We had at IU many years
- ago, Fritz Haig of Edible Estates fame. He also has a book that's probably still in the arts library
- at IU that he did not pay attention to these gardens that he installed in yards.
- I also wanted to mention UA Rooftop Growing Middleway House has done that in the past. I'd like to point
- out that home-based vendors document is from 2022. So they do have some products there. The
- city's regulations seem to be smaller. Just wanted to thank Council Member Stossberg and the Planning
- Department for addressing this issue and hoping that it
- later thank you time anybody else online anybody else in council chambers want to give a comment I see
- somebody coming up
- Microphone down this one or this one either one any old one, right? Yeah, got it. I had long remarks
- prepared I don't think at this hour that that's the best use of your time or the people in the audience
- this time I would ask you to consider very seriously for reasons that have been raised tonight not merely
- a postponement, but a denial of
- This really needs a lot of work. And as Council Member Rosenberger has suggested, there really has been
- very little communication. Two hearings that happened during the summer months where not every member
- even of the Planning Commission was able to attend is not my idea of great community involvement.
- Very late. I didn't see it until I got to the room the last changes, but even on Friday It was hard
- to see I had some so I would urge you if you care to postpone to think about it Do it but I would urge
- you to think carefully about denying it in the window of 90 days that you have Because it's not ready
- for prime time
- I can give you a few highlights of why I think it's not ready for prime time, including the fairly carefully
- written changes that President Stossberg has introduced in the last few days that very few members of
- the public have had any opportunity to look at. So let me say that there's an issue of scale.
- And if any of you would care to have them, I brought pictures of me, roughly five feet tall, standing
- next to a 15 foot currently allowed hoop house, not a 20 foot. And there are several of them. This one
- happens to be 24 feet wide, roughly 15 feet high, and 94 feet long. It is not in Bloomington. I just
- happened to find it and stood in front of it. So here I am standing in front of it, and it's big.
- In some of the pictures, you can see a reasonable-sized tractor, and it's dwarfed by the size of the
- 15 feet high and 24 feet wide. Ignore how long the building is. So scale is one. The second is intensity.
- Several of you ask, how many hours a day can you teach? How many times a week can you teach? Is there
- ever a change? We have a very narrow street. Third is frequency, also intense.
- And the fourth is a sort of second story grow lights that are currently on the property that run during
- the winter months. They're in the second story, and it's very disconcerting to some of the neighbors.
- So if you allow this, you're inviting more intensity, more frequency in what is a
- One neighborhood and I don't think that's appropriate as someone who lives on the block and has lived
- there for 37 years Thank you all Thank you. I offer these for anyone who would care All right, we have
- another member of the public willing to comment here in council chambers I
- Good evening, my name is Ellie Spear and this is past my bedtime, so bear with me.
- Bloomington has long been recognized as a progressive Midwestern city that not only sets ambitious goals,
- but also takes action to achieve them. Tonight, you have the opportunity to begin to connect
- the comprehensive plan adopted seven years ago and the climate action plan adopted in 2021 with the
- unified development ordinance at the residential level. Unfortunately, in the years since those plans
- were adopted, no action has been taken to remove the urban agriculture zoning barriers
- Identified in them it is past time to eliminate these barriers so that residents Can take every possible
- action to strengthen our community and advance our resiliency goals I agree with several council members
- The planned Commission should look at the home occupation definition to include outdoor use of one's
- property But we have to start somewhere. So let's start with urban ag Farms dead and let's start now.
- Thank you. I
- Thank you. Did anybody raise a hand on zoom in the meantime? Okay, please go ahead. We'll take the next
- person here in chambers and be sure to remember to Sign in legibly and then state your name and you'll
- have up to three minutes. I think the pin is missing I Got it it fell on the floor
- Asking the City Council to please vote no on expanding options. I'm sorry. My name is Kathy Barry. I
- wrote it down Yeah, my name is Kathy Barry and I'm speaking on ordinance 2025 32 I'm asking the City
- Council members pleased to vote no on expanding options for commercial and or public venues in residential
- areas I respect and feel that very much work and thought has been spent on developing this ordinance and
- But much more work and thought has been spent on the existing UDO Including a complete review and update
- just five years ago the UDO from its very first draft has named uppermost goals for good stewardship
- of the city environment and the social and economic health of Bloomington residents one guiding principle
- cited at the beginning of the current document is goal number four I quote
- Protect the character and stability of residential comma institutional business Employment and national
- natural areas in quote. I understand the word areas to refer to zoning The difference between residential
- and commercial activities is defined in the various use categories I agree that small and often home-based
- businesses are vital to the economy of Bloomington and
- If business owners, including farmsteaders, want the advantages of working from their residence
- in residential areas, I think it is fair to continue to enforce the current limitation on how noticeable
- the business activities are to the surrounding neighbors. The existing urban agriculture non-commercial
- use allows people to grow food on a large scale in residential areas.
- Love working outside and I have a home garden where I grow many kinds of plants seasonally any gardener
- or farmsteader in Bloomington and Rowe County Has at least four weekly farmers markets including year-round
- options There are at least three retailers that offer options to promote and sell produce gardening
- supplies and or plans and ideas the UDO also provides for home occupation businesses and
- Key to this provision is that residential character and scale be maintained at the site of the home
- occupation.
- Since growing plants and raising small animals requires sun and earth, of course some activity
- of non-commercial agriculture and farmsteading will be visible to neighbors. But I think a gardener
- in a residential zone who wants to engage the general public should have the same limitations as any
- other business. Saying this, I also want to remind all businesses that other parts of the municipal
- code have provisions for on-site commercial and public engagements through, say, a special events permit.
- I think the current provisions of the UDO without any form of ordinance 2025-32 will continue to allow
- people to teach or model home gardening or farmsteading and to freely grow as much food for themselves
- and their city as their inclination allows Thank you. Thank you There any other members of the public
- who would like to comment I
- Hello, my name is Matthew Austin, and I work on an urban farm here in Bloomington, Indiana. There are
- a couple of points that I wanted to quickly make. The three and eight seems pretty arbitrary. Originally,
- the statement was one employee or volunteer and two students for every minimum plot size, which is .165.
- That makes a lot more sense than capping it at three and eight. Three and eight means you're gonna have to have
- multiple classes come if you're gonna teach. So it makes more sense to have something standardized that's
- based off of the size of the property, because we don't want, you know, class after class after class
- after class, you just wanna get it one and done really quickly. And then, what one of the lawyers brought
- up earlier, I think maybe Mr. Conkle, saying there was a discrepancy between home-based products. It
- does seem that there is a discrepancy there. It might be run afoul of Indiana
- cottage industry laws here in Indiana when it comes to fermented products and jams and jellies. So that's
- definitely something to look into. And then when it comes to the farmstead, that makes a lot more sense.
- There's been a lot of anxiety around the commercial designation, and we definitely made comments. I,
- my sister Ellie Spear, made multiple comments to planning and transportation that that was gonna cause issues.
- And then with Jamie Scholes help getting those definitions through because and into your hands So you
- can have a much more specific designation. It makes a lot of sense
- As well, and then if you look if you were to take a GIS map of Bloomington and look at who the supporters
- are Versus that are supporting this amendment versus those that are not supporting this you're gonna
- notice that all the non supporters are in the Covenanter neighborhood or just right around there Which
- is right around my sister's urban farm and if you look at these supporters, you're gonna see it's spread
- out through in the entire city So keep that in mind that this is not just a
- This is an entire city thing and then the comprehensive plan the climate action plan all those things
- support Exactly what we're doing. We just happen to be the first ones to break ground on that and force
- the issue But this is far This is past time to be passed
- And it needs to be done. We have much bigger issues when it comes to climate change. We need more food
- to be grown locally. We need people to be taught. And why not do this outside the city limits? Because
- there's many people that don't have access to that. This is within multiple school districts, very easily
- accessible. It's right on a bus line. And we need more access to people teaching, to people growing.
- And yeah, that's it. Thank you very much for your time, your consideration. And please pass this.
- Pass it with an amendment with allowances for larger amounts of people. Thank you Okay, last call any
- other public comment Are there any hands raised on zoom Okay, we will come back to council members At
- this point we have a motion on the table for amendment one Are there any comments
- Question yes councilmember Flaherty. Did we get a direct staff? Response or input to the amendment itself.
- I don't believe we did and I was just curious to hear staff perspective on the amendment Mr.
- Grulick Yeah, so we had worked with councilmember Stossberg on the language in the amendment So we did
- not have any concerns or see any challenges, you know, we worked with her a lot on Identifying any conflicts
- and so it seems like you know, what's in the amendment?
- Is fine with staff All right, any other comments on the amendment Councilmember Stossberg I I guess
- I said in the beginning of this that if people didn't feel ready to vote on the amendment that I would
- withdraw the amendment I was looking through Roberts rules I think I'd rather table the amendment if
- we were going to do something but if I motion to table then there can be no
- No, it's not debatable to table. So I guess I'm interested in hearing from my colleagues.
- What they want at this point to do with the amendment but also what they want to do with the whole thing
- there was at least one public comment or that was basically just like please just deny the whole thing
- and Really feeling like well, it's it's just not ready and there's not enough time to make it ready
- I I don't agree with that sentiment But if there's a majority, you know, I did spend you know the last
- couple weeks going Am I just spinning my wheels doing this amendment because is the majority of council
- just gonna vote it down anyway?
- And should I bother making any changes on this right now? And so I guess I'm interested in hearing a
- little bit about those twin sentiments of should we just table this amendment and kind of get it out
- of our hair right now to kind of lay the groundwork for more amendments in two weeks and an overall
- postponement of this whole thing? Or is a majority of council like, yeah, it's not even worth postponing it.
- Because nothing you do is gonna make me want to vote yes on it Councilmember comments councilmember
- Zoellick Hi, thank you. I don't I don't mind the amendment Personally, I will say I do think we should
- I don't think we're ready to vote on the resolution as a whole tonight, but I don't mind the amendment
- and I'm curious to see what others think
- Comments Councilmember Ruff I sort of agree with councilman Vazulik and maybe some slightly different
- angle Whether the final product has this amendment or not That's not what would is likely to make me
- decide whether I would support the overall Die you know the overall proposal or not, so I'm I'm happy to I
- Tonight I think either way with or without this amendment. It's not going to have a significant impact
- on how I feel overall Other comments from councilmembers House member Flaherty Briefly with respect
- to them and I'd say the exact same thing as councilmember rough. I'm happy to vote on it tonight I don't
- think it's material to the way I'm thinking about this ordinance as a whole
- Take a point of privilege. I I thought that councilmember Stossberg was trying to get a read on whether
- colleagues Would just like to vote no on this ordinance tonight in my I was trying to get both a read
- on I mean I don't want to I don't want to table this until I know that people don't feel ready to vote
- on it, you know if the majority of council members would
- Approve the amendment that we may as well vote on it now But I also wanted to get a read on on whether
- we should bother postponing it as a whole if a majority of council members Would just deny it kind of
- no matter what? Like regardless of the amendment and so like what I heard so far is that the you know
- Nobody objects to the amendment. So, you know I haven't heard from a majority yet
- Mays will vote on the amendment at this point based on what I've heard so far But that doesn't address
- the postponement later of the whole thing, which is a different question that I don't think that anybody
- is quite answered Councilmember Rallo, did you have your hand raised previously? there are too many
- moving parts here and I I'm uncomfortable voting on an amendment. I'm uncomfortable voting on this topic
- I think it needs further debate
- I do think it needs more work Is it appropriate to vote it down completely and then send it back to
- the Planning Commission? Or is it I don't know I mean it I think a committee of the whole might have
- been the process tonight, but that said You know, we're in a regular session so I Will likely vote against
- the amendment and then I will
- I will offer a a motion to postpone consideration, but I'm curious to know how my other colleagues feel
- about Voting up or down. Thanks Other councilmember comments councilmember Rosenberger Thanks, I will
- plan to vote no on this because I think I mean I'm happy to do it and I
- The amendment is de minimis to me because I would vote no on the legislation and it doesn't matter to
- me if the amendment is in it or not I Don't think I'm not opposed to allowing classes on properties.
- I'm just I don't think this is the way to do it So I think this is a very convoluted way. I think there's
- a ton of legal gray areas I think going from no classes to Unlimited all times of the day is also the
- wrong approach. I think only limiting it to
- One type of property is the wrong approach. We're gonna come back and do this again with swim lessons
- You know, like I think this is not right. I think looking at home occupation and allowing Outside teaching
- or just allowing outside teaching somewhere else is on our residential lots is the way to go Any other
- councilmember comment I will just say that I
- I think I agree with council members rough and Flaherty that I Could vote on this amendment. I have
- no problems with this amendment But I do have issues with the ordinance, but I'm not ready to vote no
- on the ordinance I think it maybe it can be saved So there you have our input for most of us anyway
- unless other council members want to
- Yes, just to say that I think process is important and I really appreciate councilmember Council President
- Stossberg's work on this Clearly she's considered it very very intensely the problem I see with it is
- that it came very late and there are still people who may have wanted to Speak to it
- but We're denying that opportunity by voting for it So that gives me a lot of trepidation whether I
- think it's good or not. I'm uncomfortable with that process. Thanks I think that I just heard that a
- majority would would approve the amendment and I think that it would honestly be easier going into a
- postponement two weeks from now having this base change even if
- the current changes end up Being changed again in terms of a future amendment. So I guess that means
- I want to call the question on the amendment Are there any final comments on the amendment Deputy clerk stole
- Could you please call a roll on amendment one to ordinance twenty twenty five dash thirty two? Councilmember
- Rosenberger, no, sorry. No Flaherty. Yes Ruff. Yes Rollo no Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasper. Oh, yes
- Daily, yes All right that passes with a vote of five to three Now I will hand the gavel back to the
- councilmember Stossberg as president Okay. Thank you So now we're talking about this
- Ordinance as amended Councilmember Piedmont Smith did kind of an open public comment before that invited
- comments not just on the amendment but also on the ordinance as a whole So at this point, I guess I
- would like to entertain council members again for Questions or comments or motions? Regarding this amendment
- or regarding this ordinance as amended. I
- Sorry motion to postpone to our next regular session All right, I would like to clarify that motion
- that our next regular session is November 5th Are there We we are in a motion to postpone Allowed to
- have a debate about that. So would anybody like to speak about that motion to postpone? I
- The only thing I would say is we postponed Stadium district also to that day. So I don't know how much
- is going on. I think that's a sticky topic too so I don't know if it makes sense to do all of it in
- one night or This would have to be like tabled with the intent to bring back and after in the next session
- I think So I just want to put that out there. That would be a very long night or if we would vote tonight,
- I guess I'll address that
- while I'm looking at the schedule. When we were in our scheduling meeting this week, honestly, I've
- assumed a third reading on this particular one. We've kind of assumed that all along in terms of scheduling
- and we also assumed that that stadium district would be next week as well. So currently next week, there
- is just that second reading on the Title II Amendment that we had the first reading on tonight. So that
- was accounted for in the scheduling.
- Are there other comments related to postponement? Then will the clerk please call the roll on the motion
- to postpone ordinance 2025-32 as amended Council members, sorry. Yes Flaherty. Yes Ruff. Yes Rallo Yes
- Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasburg. Yes daily
- Yes, so look Rosenberger no Councilmember Piedmont Smith got so used to being president again, that
- was pretty hilarious that passes with a vote of seven to one Thank you guys so much Thank you to the
- many community members both on zoom and in the room who have contributed to this and also to the several
- members who have contributed to
- Commission meeting comments as we went along and submitted written comments because there have been
- several of them. Moving on with our agenda, we are now in the period of additional public comments.
- So this is another section set aside for the public to comment on items not on the agenda. And if you
- commented at the first not on the agenda item, then you cannot comment on the second one. But if there's
- any members of the public who would like to comment now on items not on the agenda, if you are in the
- room, you can make your way to the podium. If you're online, you can go ahead and raise your hand
- Using the reactions tab. I do see one person at the podium in chambers So I see that you signed in go
- ahead and state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes Matthew Austin I just
- want to talk about food fermentation. It is the best way to take care of your food waste and Garden
- Quest has Free workshops at the Bloomington Community Orchard. The next one is November 4th from 1 to 230 and
- Yeah, so please come join to learn how to be fully responsible for your food waste or turn into a soil
- amendment and a liquid fertilizer And you can also check the Facebook page of the Bloomington Community
- Orchard to see additional dates. Thank you Thank you for that announcement. Are there any other go ahead
- and make your way to the to the podium and sign in and Then you can state your name for the record I've
- already signed in my name you would you like me to do it again? Yes, please certain well
- I don't know why that keeps on falling on the ground tonight. I think I think we need a better pen keeper
- over there Thank you very much So my name is Sarah Jane Hughes and I would like despite the fiscal issue
- to ask whether it would be possible to get on the streets Maxwell no
- Street and on East Covenanter and the block near where I live the bumps the traffic bumps repainted
- Because I noticed that the paint is very shallow in Intensity and so people could do their cars or their
- bicycling in
- Damage be thrown off if they hit it too hard and didn't realize it was there So if it needs to be on
- an agenda for any moment I think this is a moment to to attend to it before the real bicycle season
- starts again in the spring It'll give us a lot of opportunity to do something that would be really nice
- for the many non-car Constituents in town. I love riding my bicycle. I don't get to do it very often
- But I I applaud those who do like to ride bicycles. Thank you
- And thank you for everything tonight Thank you I do want to state that council isn't really in control
- of that schedule But I would encourage you to submit a you report and if you don't know what that is
- talk to us after Yeah, thank you Are there any other? comments in chambers Has anyone raised a hand on zoom?
- All right. Seeing no more public comment. That was around First Street and Covenanter. First Street
- and Covenanter. Oh, and Maxwell. Well, it's all the ones that are through Covenanter though, right?
- Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
- So if there's no other public comment, we will move on to notes on council schedule So as already has
- been mentioned our next regular session is on November 5th, and that is two weeks from tonight So we
- do not have a meeting next week for it feels like the first Wednesday in a long time I've not had to
- be in the seat
- And I also want to highlight our next deliberation session on November 12th, which is kind of a follow-up
- to the deliberation session that was in September about UDO changes and conversations with the planning
- department. So council members, once again, there will be some amount of facilitation and small group
- facilitation. So please be prepared for that and let me know as soon as possible if you're not able
- to attend that meeting in person.
- Are there any other notes on council schedule councilmember Piedmont Smith Piedmont Smith. Yes, the
- Special Fiscal Committee of the council will meet tomorrow at 11 a.m. In the McCloskey room Thank you.
- Any other notes on council schedule? Wonderful. We are adjourned