This meeting of the Bloomington Common Council to order here on October 22nd. Will the clerk please
call the roll? Councilmember Flaherty here Roth here Rallo here Piedmont Smith here Strasburg here Daly
here Zulek here Rosenberger here. Sorry here. Thank you Thank you
As some of you know, one of the things I like to do to start off our meetings is to give a little bit
of interesting information, often related to some sort of justice or equity issue, usually something
that applies locally. And so today, I wanted to start off by talking about Domestic Violence Awareness
Month. It is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. That is why we are all up here having some sort of purple
on, as well as our staff and the clerk.
And so thank everybody for playing along with the purple game tonight for me. Domestic Violence Awareness
Month began in 1981 as a way to unite those across the nation who were working to end domestic violence
and support survivors of domestic violence. And so tonight I wanted to highlight a few local statistics
related to domestic violence and remind our community of some related resources. So first from
the Bloomington Police Department's State of Public Safety in 2025 presentation during the year 2020,
there were a total of 370 reported criminal incidents in the domestic battery crime category, and this
was actually a decrease of about 5% from 2023. So maybe we're trending in the right direction, which
would be great. However, domestic violence is certainly under-reported as a general rule, and this is
kind of demonstrated by the service numbers that one of our great local resources for domestic violence,
Middleway House, provided me with.
So Middle Way House is a local organization that supports victims of domestic violence, and they've
been supporting survivors in our community with housing and other resources since 1970. So they provided
me with these 2024 numbers reflecting their service to our community, and I do want to note Middle Way
House does. They have a service area that includes Bloomington and Monroe County, but also includes
some adjacent counties as well.
So they had 5,699 survivor calls to their hotline. They had 516 legal advocacy clients, and they filed
172 protective orders with their assistance. There were 125 adults and 103 children housed in their
emergency shelter during 2024.
They had 32 families that they served at the rise, which is a residential program for those transitioning
out of violent relationships. So those are the numbers that I wanted to share and just say that it's
really wonderful to have an organization like Middle Way giving support to the members of our community
who need that assistance transitioning out of violent domestic situations. And if you are in an unsafe
Domestic situation you can of course call the Bloomington Police Department or 911 And you can also
reach out to the crisis hotline for middle way at eight one two three three six zero eight four six
So I'm glad that we have that resource in our community Now I'll move on to our agenda summation for
this evening's meeting and
We will start with minutes for approval We have three sets of minutes to approve from March 5th, April
30th and May 7th all of this year After minutes, we will have reports We will have a section for reports.
Sorry First we will have reports from council members. Then we will have the mayor and city offices
report We will where we will have a report tonight from the Bloomington Monroe County Metropolitan Planning
Organization Then we will have council committee reports and I'm not aware of any of those this evening
And then we will have our first segment of reports from the public So that is a time if you are a member
of the public who would like to report on an item not on the agenda That is a time for you to give a
three-minute comment There are no appointments to boards and commissions tonight We have one piece of
legislation for first reading which is ordinance 2025 42 amending title 2 of the Bloomington Municipal
Code related to the order of business at regular sessions for this meeting
And then we will move on to second readings and resolutions. We will start with ordinance 2025 38 fixing
the salaries of officers and employees of the police and fire departments. We will then move on to ordinance
2025 39 fixing the salaries of this office of the city clerk for the city of Bloomington.
And then we will have ordinance 2025-40 to fix the salaries of officers, non-union and AFSCME employees
for all the departments in the city or all other departments than the two previous ordinances. Then
we'll have resolution 2025-18 approving the naming of the stadium district. And then we will end with
ordinance 2025-32 amending Title II with regard to urban agriculture.
Urban agriculture commercial, sorry That will wrap up our legislation for the evening We will have an
additional period of public comment for anybody wanting to speak on items not on the agenda And if you
want to speak to something not on the agenda, you have to choose one of those two periods of time You
can't speak at both of them any notes about council schedule and then we will adjourn and
So we can start for the minutes and I do want to note to council members that two slightly revised sets
of minutes were just sent out moments ago from the clerk from meetings from March 5th and meetings from
May 7th were very slightly revised.
Move to approve the minutes from March 5th 2025 April 30th 2025 and May 7th 2025 Are there questions
from council members Since we're all actually here in person tonight, we can do a voice vote. So all
those in favor, please say aye aye any opposed Thank you. That motion passes unanimously moving on to reports
First reports from councilmember. I'll go ahead and start to my left with councilmember daily No report.
Thank you councilmember Zulek. Yes. Thank you Council attorney liner, would you please put up the letter
on the screen? Thank you
So in short I prepared a short letter opposing the purchase of the county's purchase of the North Park
location for the new jail that is very necessary to be built in short the location is outside of city
limits with little to no plans for public transportation and I believe that this location will prevent
a lot of our city residents from being able to
get to hearings at the Justice Center and Really just Make the criminal justice system, which is already
difficult to navigate even harder Furthermore our downtown businesses rely on revenue generated from
the foot traffic from visitors and employees at the Justice Center especially during the work week as
many of you know our downtown businesses already struggle with the Monday through Thursday crowd for
Business and so I would I would hate to see them take any more hits So in short the letter is up on
the screen. I believe it went out around 4 p.m. Today, and I would really appreciate it if we could
vote to send this to our county counterparts Thank you. Happy to answer any questions Thank you, so
Sydney has written this letter and as interested in as many council members as possible signing on to it and
Do council members have any comments? Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I'm in support of the letter
I have other reasons that I also Would add to opposition to purchase of North Park, but I think this
covers two important reasons. Thank you Other comments or questions for council members you
look Councilmember Rosenberger
I'm also in support. I was going to say I too had just one other thought I don't know. Are we voting
on this tonight or is that the plane? Okay, great I was just gonna say I don't think it mentions people
visiting their Visiting people in it does does it say that? Oh, okay, and that I think is just another
Reason that it's so important to have it on public transit so that people can visit their people in
jail. Okay. Thank you Other comments or questions for council members who look
Thank you. I just want to thank council members who look for writing this I agree with the reasoning
laid out and what council member Rosenberger said to it was a my initial reaction to hearing about the
Change in location was exactly that that it's it's difficult to get to your loved ones then when you
need to go visit so For all of those reasons, I will be supporting the letter. Thank you other comments
or questions
I Will go ahead and take a comment then I'm I'm supportive of the content of the letter But I'm not
sure that it I think I feel like it leaves things out to you including the visiting I also think that
it leaves out the Issue of financing which I think is also really huge right now the way that it's been
explained to me the county doesn't actually have the money to actually do the project that they're planning
on doing and
I also think that location Puts our BPD officers and really challenging situation because I mean they
Bloomington is so big they use the jail significantly in terms of booking people in and they would have
to go all the way out to North Park to book people in and then all the way back to wherever it is that
they're stationed in terms of the region that they're patrolling and I think that that
just leaves those officers kind of out of circulation for too long in terms of serving. So I'm supportive
of what's in the letter, but I don't feel like the letter actually says as much as maybe I would want
it to say. And given the time crunch, I don't want to put my name on this because I think that it leaves
out too much. But I know that we're kind of limited in how much we could edit it tonight. So I guess
I would prefer, then, to have as many people want to sign and as many names on it
As people want to go on it, but not necessarily have it from the entire body just because it does leave
stuff out So I hear what you're saying and I there are other things that I would have liked to include
in the letter I really wanted to focus on the city as a stakeholder and how it would specifically impact
the city if that makes sense and now I do hear your point about BPD I was trying to keep
to a page and just communicate to of the The most pressing issues, but I would still like to vote on
this as a council to send it Okay, I guess I feel like it would be almost work a worse Like I would
have to vote vote. No that I didn't support it because I don't want to put my name on it So I almost
feel like that would be that would look worse overall than just having individual names signed on it
To say that there was a dissenting vote on this Does that make any sense to anybody besides me? Councilmember
Rosenberger I'm a big fan nowadays of it's good enough to go and I think that the point is to get something
out ASAP. I'm okay For well, I guess I would say it's your own
If everyone wants to vote, it's your choice to vote. No, of course And then it would be eight of potentially
eight of nine people who are in support of this and I'm happy to say I'm in support of this and I have
other reasons as well I don't think this is like the end of my perspective, you know, and I feel fine
about that, I guess Yeah, just an idea that may work for other council members as well I
Um, I would vote for this letter. I sent the commissioners and my, um, county council representatives,
uh, a more detailed email last week, um, noting not only the location, but the proposed size, the lack
of concurrent investment in prevention and the lack of a funding mechanism. So, um, I think since I've
already sent that this will just be in addition so that they know that I have
More issues than just the ones in this particular letter. So that's a tactic that other council members
could could use as well Just send their own letter in addition, but I think it is timely because October
28th I believe is when the commissioners will go to County Council and ask for funds to make the purchase Comments
I guess I feel like we wrote a similar letter last year and of course we didn't. There was a letter
written last year that was about I think the IU protests and not all of us signed our names onto it
and that was okay. And so I don't know why this one would have to be a vote and then it would have the
entire council name on this letter when we did a letter a different way last time.
Council member, sorry. I think we might be splitting hairs a bit. I think I'm quite OK with us just
not making it official vote, because I don't even know what the motion is. Motion would be for the clerk
to send it. Because we can just sign it, right? I mean, there's nothing keeping us from signing it,
right? Yeah. So how about we just do that? That's fine. I was just going off of what we did last time
with the EPA.
letter So from from my standpoint that was where I was approaching it from consistency Yeah, and I guess
between that example and the IU example from last year, maybe we don't have consistency So Do you just
want to print print that letter off maybe before it maybe oh That's true is it gonna be a physical sense and
councilmember Zulek or an electronic sends or both I Don't think there's a usually Because if we do
an electronic sends then people can just Like is there anybody besides me who doesn't want to put their
name on it I Don't see any hands so Does that work for your
Purposes right now. That's fine. I think it would be stronger to vote on it and send it as a council,
but that's fine Well, do you want to do you want to move to do that then? Yes, I move to as a council
send this letter to the Monroe County Council and the Monroe County Commissioners both physical and
electronic copies
So we have a motion and a second on the floor to and then so would so right now the letter is From you.
So would you be the one that signs it? It does say City of Bloomington Common Council and then Sydney's
little council member So does that I think we can add all of the council members in a list and I guess
it will go to two pages and
I don't understand what the issue is. Well, we're voting on the letter as it is. So do you mean to amend
the letter and have everybody's name on it? And so it's at the motion. OK, great. So are there any other
questions or comments on this? OK, so let's do a roll call vote on sending the letter.
Councilmember Flaherty. Yes, rough. Yes, brah. Oh, yes Piedmont Smith. Yes, Stossberg. I'll say yes
to sending it but I don't want my name on it Daily yes, Zulek. Yes, Rosenberger. Yes. I'm sorry.
Yes Okay, thank you So that was we were still in the middle of reports from council members and
So now we have councilmember Rosemarger. Hi great. Yes. Thanks. I have a little report Okay Do to do
I want to start what is the phrase on I love the player hate the game. Is that it? Is that right? Oh
Don't hate the player hate the game I want to start with that and say that I do appreciate the players
in this report
Okay, so I've reported on this property back in 2021. It is 601 West 4th Street. It's in Prospect Hill.
It is one block off of Rogers Street. So April 2021, 601 West 4th Street was a triplex, and it sold
for $295,000. That is roughly $100,000 per unit.
It is a historic home, of course. It's protected. Today, two and a half years later, the Triplex has
been converted to a single-family home, two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,700 square feet, and is listed for
sale at $559,000. So this Triplex conversion removed three incredibly affordable homes from our community,
very walkable.
A triplex cannot legally be built in Prospect Hill right now to replace that so Again, not hating the
players. I'm happy for them and the work they did on this house Of course the outside of the house looks
exactly the same Still the same paint everything like that, but the inside is very different. Thanks
Thank You councilmember, I'm sorry
Thank you just a quick Update that last week canopy Bloomington held the first of three plantings that
they're doing Across the city, I think mostly on the near West side and had the pleasure of joining
them as many of my colleagues have done In the past and when we were left with the charge to tell you
all of the upcoming plantings so this Saturday starting
I have to verify the time. I think it starts at 11 at Butler Park. There'll be another opportunity to
volunteer. I say this a lot, both here and if we've ever talked personally, that I think we have this
sort of disparity in Bloomington between our willingness to serve our community and our knowing that
things are happening in the community and opportunities to serve. So hopefully, many of you will be
able to show up for that.
It's totally free and there's pizza, et cetera, that follows, so a great opportunity. Now, I usually
don't use my comments to reflect on sort of broader national things or to reflect on sort of political
moments because we had said that we would mostly use our
comment times to update each other on what we've been doing, but our norm tends to be that we do update
on sort of our reflections on broader things. And so I was thinking as we were planting this week,
I mean, how metaphorical it is to the state of our institutions of civic governance and
Primarily through the lens of the fact that it is so much easier To tear things down than it is to plant
and to build them. I remember when It was probably his 87th birthday the incomparable Lee Hamilton I
was asking him about his thoughts about you know, the current state of affairs. This was you know, six
years ago or so or
eight years ago. And his response was that what we should all do is trust the strength of our institutions.
But I think that what we're seeing in the current moment is the constant eroding of those institutions.
And I am fearful for the fact that academic literature shows that once you see a huge decline, a democratic
backsliding, that it's very difficult to regain that ground
And we're seeing this across the board from the federal government shutdown to the National Guard being
mobilized against the will of local governments, to elected officials not being sworn in, to literal
tearing down of historical parts of our White House and so on and so forth.
To me, it's a really important reflection of the important work that we do as a community and as a local
government. And we said throughout, we just, for example, passed our city budget. And though we had
some things that we might have disagreed on collectively as a body, there was one element that I think
people in Bloomington should be happy about, which is that we, through the last
10, 15 years of very good governance, and I'm looking at my colleagues who have been here for a very
long time, some of you who are here in the last century. That was a joke about Dave Rallo.
We've put the city in in a very strong position and and I think that it's testament To to the fact that
local government is always where the rubber meets the road on the strength of our institutions now today
We're going to talk about some things and maybe contentious and we there's a lot of work that we still
have to do but I think that in the midst of the of the sort of Political moment that we're living in
with the decline of our institutions across the country It's so important that we don't lose sight of the fact
That what we're doing here is just family business, you know, like we disagree we argue we make fun
of our old uncle But but at the end of the day like we're committed to providing value to to the citizen
the residents of Bloomington and so just again as we're reflecting on on planting trees I hope that
many of you will join them this week, but also that we recommit them to this important work of Protecting
our democracy. Thank you
Thank you councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, I just wanted to Praise the Organizers and the participants
in the no Kings rally this past Saturday in Bloomington. We had over 2,000 people and as Everywhere
else in the country. It was a peaceful protest It was an exercise of our constitutional rights to assembly
and to free speech and I think it went very well and
And I also wanted to highlight that it's not just DEI that this federal government is attacking, but
it's actually civil rights and civil liberties that were hard fought in the 1950s and 60s that are being
eroded daily, most blatantly in the Department of Education.
But in that context, I wanted to highlight our NAACP here in Bloomington, Monroe County, which of course
is one of the oldest and boldest civil rights organizations in this country. And they do have their
Freedom Fund banquet coming up on Saturday, November 1st at 6 p.m. at Ivy Tech. And if you'd like to
learn more or get tickets for this event, you can go to givebutter.com.
The theme is The Fierce Urgency of Now, which of course is from Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream
speech, 1963. And the funds raised will go towards scholarships and to continue the work in fighting
for civil rights in our community. So that's my report, thank you.
Thank you. Um, technically there's 20 minutes set aside for councilmember reports and we've met that
so I'm gonna go ahead and extend us until Council members Rallo rough and Flaherty. Do you guys have
reports? Okay, I'll extend it until 7 For now and I'll extend it again if we have to so councilmember
Rallo Just real quick I want to apologize to anyone who attempted to zoom in on councilmember Rallo in my
a constituent meeting this past Saturday due to technical difficulties we were unable to Get the thing
launched and hosted and going but we intend to Do that this coming Saturday instead same time ten o'clock
in the morning and We'll make sure we have the system working at that point. So that's all Thank You
councilmember Flaherty Okay, and I just had a how to
couple of things to say that I'll make shorter now one is I also wanted to announce my constituent meeting
which As you guys may or may not remember I've been having to shift those around some during the fall
because of cross-country season But this Saturday, I will have a constituent meeting here next door
from 11 to noon. And I've also been kind of regularly outside at the farmer's market during the summer,
but I think it's gonna be a little bit chilly for that on Friday, so I'm gonna move us back inside.
So if anybody wants to come to that, that's next door, McCloskey at 11. And then for my colleagues,
there was a form sent out for suggestions around deliberation session topics, specifically noting that
the December 10th deliberation session currently has no
So if anybody has a suggestion they want to make a commitment to organize that particular meeting Please
respond to that form by October 31st Otherwise, I think that were we just discussed with staff the idea
of Canceling that meeting. So if you have a topic for that deliberation session, please let me know
and In the interest of time, I will call that my report So moving on to the mayor and city offices
the Bloomington Monroe County MPO If you want to make sure to introduce yourself for the record and
As a reminder there is 20 minutes set aside for this session and hopefully at least half or more of
that time will be councilmember questions
Hi, everyone. My name is Katie Gandhi myself and Pat Martin here are the current staff for the Bloomington
Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization And as a quick reminder each year our MPO receives
federal funding from the Federal Highway Administration to distribute to our local public agencies for
multimodal transportation projects within the metropolitan planning area and
Metropolitan planning area includes the current urbanized area of Monroe County as well as additional
areas Expected to become urbanized in the next 20 years As you requested today will summarize the federal
funding that MPO has Distributed to local public agencies over the last seven years which projects receive
those funds What future projects are slated to receive funding?
Through the MPO and some of the upcoming in dot funded projects planned for our county in the next five
years This chart shows the quantity of federal highway funds the MPO distributed to local public agencies
from federal fiscal year 2018 to 2025 and what we anticipate distributing to the LPAs in the next five years and
Average the MPO is authorized to distribute about 4.6 million to local MPL PAs through Specific are
though the specific annual amounts can vary due to a number of factors These annual totals do not include
federal highway funding that city departments receive independently through grants and special funding
calls these totals strictly reflect What is apportioned?
To the MPO each year based on federal and state formulas Also, I will say that on my chart Fiscal year
2027 is a bit misleading while the MPO is slated to receive 4.6 million in federal funds that year almost
all of that will go toward repaying a loan from fiscal year 24 which helped the city acquire extra money
to finish the first street project and
So in the last eight years, 25 local projects have received federal funds through the MPO. Several of
those projects included multiple phases and or were funded multiple years. 21 out of the 25 funded projects
included bicycle and pedestrian improvements as part of their scope in the form of curb ramps, signals,
sidewalks, trails, and multi-use paths.
I was supposed to switch the slide. I forgot to do that I'll give you a second on that So the next few
slides show which projects received federal funds through the MPO in the past eight years and how much
they received bolded projects include the pedestrian elements and
You can see that in fiscal year 2018 for projects received MPO federal funds all of which included pedestrian
improvements in fiscal year 2019 for projects received federal funds through the MPO which included
City of Bloomington's second and Bloomfield pedestrian improvements and the Jackson Creek Trail and
High Street Path projects
In fiscal year 2020 six projects received federal funds through the MPO all of which were City of Bloomington
projects five out of six projects Five out of the six projects that received funding involved the creation
of new multi-use paths In fiscal year 21 four projects received funding If you notice that this is the
fourth year in a row that Jackson Creek Trail and High Street Path received funding
It's because of the extra administrative hurdles required when using federal funds. It's more efficient
and cost-effective to use federal funds for larger projects that span multiple years. In fiscal year
22, five projects received federal funds through the MPO, which included another new multi-use path
and crosswalk upgrades.
Transit another valuable alternative transportation option for this community also received funding
during this fiscal year In 2023 three projects received funding the funding granted to Bloomington Transit
during this year enabled them to finalize their plans to construct a new facility and
Fiscal year 24 due to extra funds received through a funding exchange with the Indy MPO nine diverse
local projects received MPO funding most of the funding that year was granted to cities the city's hopeful
for street construction and
And finally, in fiscal year 2025, which ended in June 25, seven projects received funds from us. Some
of the money in this fiscal year was also given to another MPO who will repay us that money in a future
year when the money can be of better use to us. Note that none of the projects I just mentioned from
the past eight years were fully funded using only federal funds from the MPO.
That's because LPAs have to provide either a 10% or 20% match for any federal funds they receive.
And also, MPO funds are typically limited, and LPA projects typically cost much more than the MPO can
provide. I'll also mention here that not just any project can or should receive federal funds through the MPO.
So because the federal funding process can take up to five years The MPO has to plan out five years
in advance how MPO funding will be used the MPOs transportation improvement plan for fiscal year 26
to 30 which was just published shows what those projects are that are approved to receive the upcoming
MPO funds in the next five years and
The College and Walnut Street corridor here The improvement project is one of the city's projects that
are slated to receive federal funds through the NPO in the next five years The city of Bloomington is
also anticipated to receive funds for phases three and four of their crosswalk safety improvement project
as well as for phase five of their downtown curb ramp project and
In the next five years, the city will also receive MPO funds for its high street intersection, intersection
modernization and multi-use path project, which I know is a little contentious around here. And that's
anticipated to begin construction this coming spring. The city has also been granted federal funds through
the MPO for their North Dunn Street multi-use path project.
East Clover Lane to the bypass And finally the city's West Second Street project which began construction
just this last month Or went to letting anyway has been granted federal MPO funds as well all five of
the city of Bloomington projects that are receiving MPO funds in the next five years will result in
infrastructure upgrades that
will benefit non-drivers. Monroe County Highway Department will also receive some federal funds in the
next five years for an intersection upgrade at Old S.R. 37 South and East Dylan Road. And then, if any
project scheduling changes, which can happen sometimes because the federal funding process is complicated,
Allocated MPO funding will either be shifted to benefit any of the projects you see here, be granted
to Bloomington Transit, or to exchange with another MPO so that we can have extra funds in the future
to spend. There are also a few pedestrian-focused projects planned for our county in the next five years
that will be led and funded by the Indiana Department of Transportation.
Indot will both coordinate with the city and the county engineering departments and hold public meetings
as part of their process One of the future in dot LED projects planned for our region is a reconfiguring
of the pedestrian trail bridge over SR 45 Another planned in that project in the next five years is
installation of a sidewalk on the SR 45 46 bypass between Kinzer
Pike and Walnut Street And in dot will also complete some accessibility safety pedestrian improvements
at South Hickory Drive where South Liberty Drive intersects with West Bloomfield and second one of the
reasons for this project is the presence of a Bloomington Transit bus stop at that location And in dot
also plans to do road and pedestrian facility work
along SR 45 and 10th Street at two locations if they can maintain the funding for it first between the
bypass and North Pete Ellis Drive starting next year and then later between North Pete Ellis Drive and
North Russell Road, which is where University Elementary School is located and then other in dot
Projects planned for the next five years within this county include structural and bridge projects pavement
and bridge bridge deck overlays Railroad safety projects intersection improvement at SR 46 and West
Flatwoods Road, which is west of Ellisville
And then in dot has still unassigned discretionary funds that may come to this community as well and
Pat and I will Update both the MPO public documents and the committees as those funds come in Thank
you for the opportunity to share information about the MPO with you Pat and I welcome your questions
Thank you so much are there questions from council members I
There are no questions from council members council members. Sorry Thank you so much for the presentation
when you're thinking about that five-year horizon And ways that the city particularly as we're thinking
about budgeting as we're thinking about better, you know aligning budgets with with clear data, etc
How could we? Better position ourselves to strengthen the MPOs ability to secure federal funding to
you know, move it in the city, etc
Martin, Bloomington Monroe County Metropolitan Planning Organization. The answer is, we're maxed out
now. We've optimized everything as much as we could. We don't select the projects. Projects are selected
by the engineering department, recommended by the engineering department, approved by the committees,
the various committees and the policy committee, and then approved by the NDOT and Federal
Highway Administration, Federal Transit Administration.
And this year, this county year, I'm sorry, this fiscal year, 2026, we're looking to receive about 5.1,
5.2 million dollars, but then we're also at the end of the federal funding bill, and nobody knows what
will happen then. That will expire at the end of September of next year, and Congress is yet to take
up that legislation. So the outlook is a little fuzzy,
If I can say that But we're I mean our priority has always been safety mobility connectivity
and accessibility and that's what we're still doing That answers your question Actually, could you um,
could you say your question one more time if I were to rephrase it It would be what would you have us
do to make your work easier? Well
I guess it depends on any any goals you guys might have So and I wanted to add on to what Pat said,
which is that? You know the the city engineering department does you know? They work off of the priority
lists that are set by plans that are made by studies that are done by Planning the planning documents
that the planning department does so, you know, they all work together along with public works a lot
of projects don't
You know the timelines are complicated because funding is complicated and so For example like crosswalks
phase three, you know, you have to get it into the tip or into our documents in 2023 consultant surgeon
selected In 24, you know preliminary engineering goes 24 to 25 right away 25 26 construction 28 so it's
a long process and
From my understanding the the city engineering department, you know has to get approval from the City
Council to even Get the project approved before it gets in our document and then they have to reapprove
Construction by that time all of you could have changed so they they they depend on bonds To make sure
the funding is available in the future so I Guess just you know
If you have strong interests in particular projects, you know Just learning more about the process of
how those projects get into these documents and then get the funding that they get Would would be helpful
Thank you, are there other questions from council members comes member Rosenberger. Hey, thank you so
much And I'm sorry if you said this I was like staring very closely at this map and
North Dunn Street, okay, so that is Anticipated construction fiscal year 2028 And it's budgeted for
like five hundred thousand dollars this year, I think so is that like design or I guess just I'm just
curious as to like what that is I should have had this document open
So The North Dunn Street project it was is using $100,000 this fiscal year for right away acquisition
and then local funds in 28 for construction engineering and construction and then will be supplemented
by Roughly a million
of federal funds in 28 for construction Prepping for 2028 construction, but then it seems like it will
all get done at once because once you have that right of way It's sort of easier to just get it on the
multi-use path. Okay That's really neat. Just a note is separate But the speed limit on that road is
30 and it's such a tiny road and hilly I just wonder if we can change that but I know that's not a question.
Okay. Thank you
Are there other questions for miss Gandhi? Okay. Um, I have one question because one of the things that
you, uh, mentions, um, regarding this, the end dot, uh, projects along 10th street between the bypass
and Pete Ellis was, uh, you said if they can maintain the funding for it, is that funding in danger
right now?
They just have a lot on their plate and they are constantly prioritizing. So just like we update the
tip every two years The tip is what has all of the future projects planned out on it We updated every
two years things change in those two years priorities get shifted sometimes You know if right of way
for high street can't can't be obtained, you know Then that project might be delayed or cancelled or
something like that. So they also have a similar document called the step and
And they readjust their their funding and priorities So I know that that that particular area is a very
strong Interest in this community in fixing particularly because it goes to the University Elementary
and We are you know, we are on their docket we are on their list but you know as Funds get shifted.
So I think you know
administer and some some leadership support from the council could definitely Definitely possibly help
with securing that funding and preventing it from being shifted Great. Thank you. Were you specifically
talking about the like phase one funding? Between the bypass and Pete Ellis, or are you more thinking
about the phase two between Pete Ellis and Russell Road? That might be end up any of it could be
Okay, thank you theoretically what's in the tip what's planned out for the next two years is secure
but anything beyond that is considered illustrative and Not as secure Great. Thank you any other questions
All right. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. We all really appreciate it and
that was a very informative slideshow and
All right, we don't have any reports from council committees, so we will move on to our first First
section for public comment
So if there are any members of the public who would like to make a comment on items Not on the agenda
now is a time for you to do so and I already see somebody here in chambers Moving to the podium. So
if you are in chambers you can do exactly as this person just did and move to the podium You can sign
in and then state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes If you are online, you
can go ahead and raise your hand using the reactions tab on zoom Or you can send a chat message to the
host But let's go ahead and start here in chambers since there is somebody
Already is the timer all set? Great. Thank you. Go ahead Hello, my name is Greg Alexander I prepared
slides, but I was told I can't use them for Thanks for a bogus accessibility reason I respect policies
but the council website still says we can use visual aids Changing the rules without informing the public
is disrespectful to my time You're creating unneeded animosity anyways
So I will ask you to imagine sidewalks you can't see. I went to Howe Street in Prospect Hill, and I
walked east towards the beeline over about four blocks. I took six photos of the sidewalk being blocked.
Mostly, it's blocked by vegetation. It's not completely blocked. You've got plants growing into the
sidewalk, all sorts of patterns. As a single person walking alone, you can simply slip through. The
sidewalk's about five feet wide, and the narrowest gap between the plants was about two feet wide.
Sometimes, you'll have plants brushing against your body. If you get in the habit of accepting that,
you will get poison ivy. It's a problem, but still, as a single person, the sidewalk is totally usable.
Some of these plants are even beautiful, not when I photographed them. If you're walking with a bike,
now your bike's snagging on everything. You're getting twigs, seeds in your chain. It's not so bad,
but it's not so great either. You might still walk on the sidewalk. Now, if you're walking with friends
or if you're walking with kids,
Now, you're always switching to single file. It's friction, trying to keep hold of your kids while you're
going single file. You know, it is so tiring. It breaks up your conversation. It disrupts your focus.
I forgot to show you the picture of the garbage dump. Half a block before you get to the beeline, the
sidewalk ends entirely to make way for a pile of private trash cans and parking. The sidewalk doesn't
even go the whole distance. Of course, it doesn't. What do you do? You walk in the street.
This is absolutely normal. Like, on Homecoming weekend, I saw a bunch of, you know, students and student
parents, groups. Anytime there's a group of more than about five people, they're just walking in the
streets downtown, because they couldn't fit on the sidewalk. About a month ago, Sean Sullivan was walking
with his bicycle, and two of his friends on Howe Street, same trip I did, I guess, from the police report,
they could use the same sidewalks that I photographed, but obviously, they didn't. They walked in the street.
A driver tried to intimidate them into getting out of the street. Mr. Sullivan refused, and he was shot
and killed. This is a transportation fatality. The conflict was based on the fact that one group felt
they had no choice but to walk in the street, and somebody else felt entitled to demand that they leave
the street. Both the victim and the suspect in this case are impoverished, but even between just them,
they felt the class implications of our transportation system. People and cars matter.
people without cars don't. In the extreme, this common attitude creates murder. You can't do anything
about this in the short term, but we have to keep in mind that our car-first priorities that are enforced
in this body still have consequences that are cultural and psychological beyond merely fiery crashes.
Thank you for your time. Thank you. Are there any other public comments in chambers? Has anybody raised
a hand on Zoom?
Yes, we have two. Wonderful. Let's go ahead and go to that first Zoom commenter. When you're unmuted,
go ahead and state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes. Hello.
Can you hear me? Yes, we can. My name is Paul Rousseau. Good evening. Twelve days ago on Friday,
October 10th, I had a bicycling experience that I would like to share with you.
At about 345 in the afternoon, I was westbound on Second Street because I had a medical appointment
near the corner of Second and Landmark Avenue. Shortly after riding through the intersection at Rogers
Street near the old hospital, my chain broke as I was riding uphill. I fell to my left into traffic.
As I hit the ground, I saw a few tires come close to my head. Fortunately, no motor vehicle ran over me.
and I suffered only minor injuries. However, what happened next was somewhat shocking. About a dozen
cars drove around me. Nobody stopped to help. I was left to fend for myself and just get out of the
way. My experience on Second Street is one more indication among many, such as excessive growth, that
leaves me doubting that the city as a whole
is a community. You may ask why I was bicycling on a busy route like Second Street. The reason is simple.
Too much of Bloomington is designed like a suburb in which traffic is funneled into busy arteries with
no parallel side streets. Regrettably, for this and many other reasons, I'm inclined to conclude that
Bloomington is neither bicycle friendly nor a real community.
I would suggest that the city stop calling itself a bicycle-friendly community. There are probably many
other things that could be done to improve the situation, but I'm out of time and I'm unable to attend
meetings of the Transportation Commission. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. Do we have another
commenter on Zoom still?
Yes, one more. Wonderful. Thank you. When you're unmuted, you can go ahead and state your name for the
record and then you'll have up to three minutes. Hi, Council. It's Eric Spoonmore with the
Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. Just wanted to provide a couple of comments on different things
tonight. Really appreciate Council Member Zulich's letter and really appreciate you all. I think you all
it appeared that there was sending and signing the letter was unanimous. So I think it's important that
the City Council is using its voice on these kinds of issues that really impact our downtown core. We've
had the legal community in Bloomington basically since 1818 when Monroe County was founded.
and now we've got a very consequential decision before us where this could all be uprooted and moved
outside of the county seat into the more rural county jurisdiction that would absolutely cause some
accessibility issues that the chamber is concerned about and also would lead to some economic
I think consequences for our small business community down there that I know a lot of you are very concerned
about and aware of. So again, thank you for your support of that letter. I hope it may be an opportunity
for the mayor to find some alignment here with the
City Council on an issue that really impacts our downtown community and hope that the mayor's administration
is Kind of paying attention to that as well too as we have a big decision coming up with the County
Council Next week on Wednesday and in the chamber will be there to provide some comments that are Opposing
the purchase of North Park as well, too. So again, thank you also want to
reiterate some remarks made earlier by Council Member Isabel Piedmont-Smith. Thanks so much for plugging
the NAACP Freedom Fund Banquet on November 1st. NAACP of Monroe County is just a great chamber member,
longtime chamber member, and I look forward to seeing many of you, government partners, community partners
at the banquet. So please do join us there for that as well too. Thank you all for your work.
And we will see you all soon. Thank you. Thank you. It looks like we have somebody else here in chambers
now, so if you want to go ahead and state your name for the record, I think you already signed in. You
have up to three minutes. Good evening, Madam President. This is Christopher Emge bookending the Chamber
of Commerce. I just want to, first of all, say I want to thank the Council for their work on the budget process.
I was gonna do some personal grievances today, but I want to keep it positive. So we'll save those It's
a hard. It's it's a hard process. It's difficult you're flushed with a lot of different information
and you're working collaboratively and it's Not a great time to be doing budgets. I think the the count
your your county peers will probably agree with that the finance committee meets tomorrow and the work
ahead continues and
The financial crunch only gets deeper as we go into this and as we go and get into outcome-based budgeting
some hard decisions are going to be made and I think The chamber came from a let's will pump this year
But next year we're we're sort of expecting some some real changes within the budgeting and how we're
budgeting just to make things ends meet and sort of pick some real priorities based on those outcomes
that we want to do and Really maximize our utility which is very important. The next thing I want to
do is just
Sort of plug the other thing I do here at the the greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce Which is our
success school, which is the foundation feel-good arm of the chamber We two weeks from tomorrow's that
would be November 6. We are hosting our career cruise for seventh and eighth graders throughout the
county Which is kind of a seafaring adventure to different jobs and employment and I'm recommending
local businesses including the City Council and
Bolton's office to join us in that I've already sort of secured the election office which I'm hoping
to bring in a Rotating group of elected officials and it'd be a good chance to sort of do a little civics
with seventh and eighth graders But I'm encouraging all the departments within your city of Bloomington
to join me in this very fun engaging day That's November 6th. That is a Thursday. It's
roughly 9 to 2 p.m. If you have questions, you can reach me at the chamber office. I'm available here.
And my final plug is it is basketball season and if you ever want to have a sort of
Chat with me. Let's go to Twin Lakes. We can go to the South High School on Sundays for some
youth basketball, which I always love. Even though my son's injured, we'll still be there rooting on
our peers. So support local basketball in the community. I want to see you at the career cruise. Thank
you for your work on the council. It is appreciated. And the wonderful staff here today as well. Thanks.
Thank you. Anybody else here in chambers who would like to make a comment?
Anybody online raise their hand? Okay I guess that closes this period of public comment There is another
period at the end of the meeting if you want if you decide between now and then that you want to comment
on something not on the agenda Since there are no appointments to boards and commissions. We are on
to legislation for first readings. I Move that ordinance 2025-42 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only I
It's been moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025 42. We can do that by voice vote since we're
all in person tonight All those in favor, please say aye. Aye any opposed. Thank you. Will the clerk
please read Ordinance 2025 42 to amend title 2 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled administration
and personnel regarding amending
Bloomington Municipal Code 2.04.380 order of business at regular sessions synopsis this ordinance amends
Bloomington Municipal Code 2.04.380 to update the council's regular session agenda expanding subsection for
To include the mayor city clerk city offices city boards and commissions and city partnership entities
and reports Thank you, oh Sorry, that's the only thing for first reading tonight So we will have a second
reading for that in two weeks at our next regular session meeting on November 5th And that's when we
will discuss that so on to second readings and resolutions. I
I move that ordinance 2025 dash 38 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only Second it's been
moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025 38. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye any opposed
Thank you. Will the clerk please read? Ordinance 2025 dash 38
An ordinance fixing the salaries of officers and employees of the police and fire departments for the
city of Bloomington, Indiana for the year 2026 Synopsis this ordinance sets the minimum and maximum
salary salary rates for all sworn fire and police personnel for the year 2026 in accordance with council
approved collective bargaining agreements
Thank you. I move that ordinance 2025 dash 38 be adopted. Wonderful. So who do we have tonight to presents?
Thank you. If you could state your name for the record, that'd be fantastic. Yeah, of course.
Thank you. Sharp paycheck director of human resources presenting ordinance 2025 38 for police and fire salaries.
Just some quick highlights from this ordinance for related to positions There's one fire civil non-sworn
position that was previously listed as full-time But was actually filled as part-time and will remain
part-time as intended going forward
Police eliminated an evidence clerk position, and they added a crime scene technician position just
to better support their operations. There's a sworn administrative position. For those positions, the
salaries are listed individually instead of being listed by a grade and a step because they actually
operate on the rank system, so it just made more sense to just simply list their salaries outright.
This ordinance also includes a grade and step chart and that's just updated for reference for graded
positions And those really are the highlights. I'm happy to answer any questions you have Okay,
thank you. And I do want to note that we do have an amendment For this one, so I'm not sure if we want
to introduce that amendment first or not Yes, I would like to introduce amendment one to ordinance 2025
dash 38 and
second Thank You councilmember Piedmont Smith This amendment just corrects the typographical error in
section 3c part-time and temporary positions That's all I got okay, are there any questions related
to amendment one I
I don't see any questions. We do need to go to members of the public for public comment related to amendment
one, which is Fixing a typographical error if there are any members of the public who would like to
comment on amendment one If you're in chambers, you can make your way to the podium If you're online,
you can go ahead and raise your hand using the reactions tab. I See somebody moving in chambers, but
I'm not sure that they're gonna come and make a public comment on this right now but I'm gonna have to
Wait and make sure they don't reappear. Okay, great. I got the head shake. So seeing no public comment,
that brings us back to council for any council member comments around amendment one.
No, no comment. I'll go ahead and comment and say thank you to councilmember Piedmont Smith for having
such eagle eyes to spot these Small details that is wonderful to have somebody do that for us So will
the clerk please call the roll on amendment one to ordinance? 2025 38 Councilmember Ruff Rallo yes Piedmont
Smith. Yes Stasburg. Yes Daley. Yes
Zulik yes Rosenberger. Yes. Sorry. Yes clarity. Yes Thank you that passes unanimously so now we're back
to talking about This this ordinance as amended so we're gonna go back and start with questions from
council members about the ordinance Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah in section to be the last
Subsection there under other Says off-duty pay is received at a minimum of two hours And I'm just a
little confused how that works So then there's a table that says shift paid differential Could you maybe
walk me through an example of this trying to understand it to be Yeah, it's um
Page 67 of the packet. I'm not sure what page of the ordinance I Am looking for oh no off-duty pay is
received at a minimum of two hours I Will not pretend to specifically know the answer to that question. I
Don't know if do you know deputy is it and it's listed in the contract and it just states that they
will be paid at a minimum For two hours for that shift if they're called to duty Does that answer your
question Okay, so if they're off duty they're called on to duty even if they only have an hour worth
of work they'll be paid for they get paid a minimum of two hours and Then what is the table beneath
that for I
This table are you talking about the shift pay differential for depending on what shift they work then
they get paid a differential per week So let's say they're off-duty mm-hmm, they're asked to come in
they work two hours The afternoon shift so then they get some fraction of the $16 also no one is explaining
what they get
on a weekly basis, just if they are coming in in the afternoon or they're coming in in the evening,
that's a weekly rate. What you asked me about about the off-duty pay is how much they are paid for each
hour. Two hours minimum. So one is hourly and one is weekly. So does the shift pay differential table
have anything to do with off-duty pay?
That's why I got confused. I can see why that would be confusing. I think that they are different, but
they're just together.
Because they both represent two different types of other pay Okay, so they're two separate things Types
of other pay. Yes Thank you, you're welcome. Sorry for that confusion Thank you. Are there other questions
from council members for director paycheck?
I don't see any questions, but so so I'm gonna ask one I was wondering since it takes so much time and
energy to train new dispatchers And we've been challenged in that area if it made sense to consider
some kind of bonus or retention after They've actually worked a set amount of time after their training
period like if they do their training period and then stay for six months or stay for a year whether
because I feel like there were other
There were other bonuses in here, and I'm wondering if that type of bonus has been discussed at all
anywhere. No, that type of bonus has not been discussed at all. I mean, I think that's a good recommendation
for consideration. So we can always have that conversation with Chief Dikhoff. Of course, I understand
all things are budget-related. And we also try to be fair and consistent in how we
fill positions and offer pay, though I know that this is a hard-to-fill position. So we're always looking
for opportunities to attract and retain more talent in this position. But to answer your specific question,
we haven't talked about that to my knowledge. Okay, thank you. Do you have something to add?
Nap was just explaining that the dispatchers are not a part of this particular ordinance They are a
part of the civil city Ordinance the next ordinance that I'll be presenting this evening But their their
pay grades are Listed under the police department in this ordinance. Yeah, it's because they are within
the police department, but they are actually
civil city positions But there but they're not actually in this ordinance even though it's listed in
this ordinance they are not they are not a part of the police contract But these positions are actually
a part of the police department so this ordinance doesn't approve Those positions even though those
positions are listed within this ordinance. I'm confused now
This ordinance To my understanding includes all positions that are a part of the police and also the
fire department Whether they are sworn or not So as long as they are a part of the police department,
then they are listed here So they would be listed here not in the civil city one later Yeah, I'm sorry
for the confusion I just
I apologize. I know I added some unnecessary confusion I was just making sure that if you had questions
about Civil City and how we are paying civil city that would include our our dispatch positions as an
example Then I just wanted you to know that that is separate meaning that it would not be a part of
the negotiation It would not be negotiated to pay any type of additional
Bonus for retention to our dispatchers that would be included in how we would pay our civil positions
Sorry, but they're in this ordinance not in this. Okay. All right It's just a different bucket of negotiation
and salary consideration Make sure you that that that makes sense now Are there are there other questions
from council members I
All right, let's go ahead and go back to the public. If the public has any comments about I've lost
track of my ordinance number, ordinance number 202538 as amended. If you're in chambers, you can go
ahead and make your way to the podium. If you're online, you can raise your hand using the Reactions
tab. I don't see anybody moving in chambers. And I'm getting shakes from over there.
At the council staff table that nobody's raised a hand on zoom So we will go ahead and revert back to
council members for any council comments on ordinance 2025 38 as amended I Don't see anybody up here
raising a hand so I'll just say thank you to director paycheck and thank you to our police and our fire
departments for the good work that they do and will the clerk please call the roll then on ordinance
2025 38 as amended
Councilmember Rallo. Yes Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasberg. Yes Daly. Yes Zulek. Yes Rosenberger Yes, sorry.
Yes Flaherty. Yes Thank you that passes unanimously Moving on to the next one. I Move that ordinance
2025-39 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only I
All those in favor, please say aye opposed. Thank you. Will the clerk please read Ordinance 2025-39
to fix the salaries of appointed deputies and employees of the Bloomington City clerk for the city of
Bloomington Monroe County, Indiana for the year 2026
Synopsis this salary ordinance establishes the 2026 maximum salaries for Bloomington City clerk employees
Thank you It's 2025 dash 39 be adopted Thank you. It looks like we have our city clerk up there ready
to present if you could please state your name for the record and then the floor is yours Thank you
Good evening. My name is
Every time you respond, it throws me just a little bit. So I'm Nicole Bolden. I'm the Bloomington City
Clerk. And I am here to talk to you about the 2026 salaries for the clerk staff. There are no major
changes to the number of clerk staff that are in the office. So you'll still see the chief deputy and
three other deputies, along with funding for our interns. We have incorporated the 2.7% COLA increase
that all civil city staff are going to be receiving in 2026.
Am open to any questions that you may have about the clerk staff clerk office Domestic violence awareness
month for which we're all wearing purple and I thank you all for doing that as well Thank you. Are there
questions for the clerk? Councilmember Piedmont Smith, so I can do the math. So is the 2.7 percent the
only increase in
If I recall correctly, there is another increase for longevity and I cannot remember which staff member
it was for So yes, there was an increase for longevity for one of the staff members But we paralleled
the same structure that the administration does for safe and civil city staff and we double check the
numbers with the controller to make sure that we Well math is not my strong suit So, yes Okay.
Thank you. Mm-hmm. Thank you. That may have answered my question was that
The deputy clerk of communications and outreach actually was at a five point seven percent increase
Maybe that's the one that would have been the longevity and that would be why because I was wondering
that Are there other questions? Councilmember Rallo My question is about Under your your direction your
office are your employees
and competitive with other clerk offices around the country in terms of Their pay relative to their
duties and so forth. Is that something that you track and that you know, we should Be aware that that
is You know that we're keeping That it's brought to our attention Thank you for asking the question
Most of the research that we have done in our office has related to other second-class cities around
the state, which is problematic, as I've said before, because you're looking at offices and staff that
have historically been undervalued, primarily filled with women. So the work that is done by the staff
is not valued at the same rate as other departments or
Positions whether it's in the private or public sector So yes, we've looked at them and I cannot recall
off the top of my head where we fall in terms of clerk staff salaries By comparison with other second-class
cities. I'd be happy to pull that up and get it to you But I won't be able to give it to you tonight
and I apologize for that. Oh, of course I mean I'm thinking maybe next year's budget maybe we should
Pay attention to that and you clerk Bolden you brought up last time and
last few weeks about the cost of living increase in Bloomington being Higher than a lot of second-class
cities and we should also be cognizant of that so I just wanted to bring that up as a sort of a I know
what we were not going to make adjustments tonight, but just rhetorically speaking looking to the future
to make sure that your office remains competitive and that you're able to hire people that you
That you need the high quality staff that you that you have now. So thank you Thank you, are there other
questions Okay, I have another one too last year you didn't have any interns listed and so I'm just
wondering how What's your intern plan as it's budgeted for two? Are you planning on working at like
them working all year? 40 hours a week or like what's your
What do you think? That was actually an oversight last year where we had the money budgeted for interns,
but it actually wasn't enumerated in the clerk's salary budget itself. So that was something that we
were working to correct. I think most of what we do is a work in progress, and we're always trying to
make sure that we're in line with best practices and what the code says always. I'm going to be very
careful about that since two of my law school professors are in the room right now. I don't want to
disappoint them.
So anyway, but yes, that was just an oversight last year. We corrected it. OK, so interns aren't new
then? They are not new. We've had interns in the office. I thought that you had had interns before,
but then I was confused. Yeah. All right, great. So there's no changes basically in terms of the intern
stuff, like quantities, hours, all that stuff from past years? Probably fewer hours overall because
we didn't increase the amount that we had in that line, which has been at about $15,000 for years.
But the intern pay the hourly rate has gone up over the years as well Great. Thank you. Mm-hmm other
questions All right. Let's go ahead and go to members of the public then if members of the public would
like to Make any comments regarding ordinance 2025 39 if you're in chambers, you can go ahead and make
your way to the podium If you're online, you can raise your hands using the reactions tab. I Don't see
anybody moving in chambers as anybody raised a hand on zoom I
All right, then I think that we revert back to council for councilmember comments. Are there councilmember
comments on ordinance 2025 39? Councilmember daily I just wanted to take this moment to say thank you
very much to the to the clerk and to the clerk's staff I know we cannot have our meetings without you
guys being there and
You're you're often quietly supporting us and sometimes maybe we forget to double-check first that hey
Can can clerk staff be there for one of our meetings when we're trying to talk and I apologize And we'll
do better remembering that but but truly I mean this staff is amazing. So thank you Thank you, are there
other councilmember comments I
I think then we're ready to call the roll if the clerk could do that for ordinance 2025 39 Councilmember
Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasburg. Yes, Daley. Yes Zulek. Yes Rosenberger Yes Sorry, yes Flaherty yes rough. Yes
Rallo. Yes Thank you and that passes unanimously. Thank you all so much. I Move that ordinance 2025
dash 40 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only Second, thank you. All those in favor,
please say aye. Aye Any opposed? Thank you. Will the clerk please read Ordinance 2025 dash 40
and ordinance to fix the salaries of appointed officers non-union and AFSCME employees for
all the departments of the city of Bloomington Monroe County, Indiana for the year 2026 synopsis Ordinance
2025-40 sets the maximum 2026 salary for all appointed officers non-union
AF s CME employees for all the departments of the city of Bloomington, Indiana I Move ordinance 2025
dash 40 be adopted second Thank you and who is going to present this one If you could again state your
name for the record, even though we all know you are yeah
Happy to hi again sharp paycheck director of human resources presenting ordinance 2025 44 appointed
officers non-union and AFSCME salaries Thank you, I believe that we also have an amendment on this one
would you like to do that amendment first? Yes, I move amendment one to ordinance 2025 dash 40 Thank you
Motion and a second on an order on an amendment. Go ahead councilmember Piedmont Smith Okay, so this
one is in regard to section 2 I and All of section 2 I has been incorporated into the amendment, but
it's really towards the end where
There's a clarification of the additional 50 cents per hour premium for master equipment operators at
Dillman And then in section 2l there's the same Typographical correction as we had for the previous
salary ordinance Thank you are there councilmember questions on this amendment to ordinance 2025 40 I
All right, I don't see any questions from council members about that. So we'll go ahead and go to members
of the public for any public comment regarding just amendment one for ordinance 2025-40 to
do that clarification that council member Piedmont Smith mentioned and to correct that typographical
error. There's members of the public who would like to comment on this amendment. If you're in chambers,
you can make your way to the podium. If you're online, you can go ahead and raise your hand using the
reactions tab. I don't see anybody moving in chambers.
No hands raised on zoom. So we'll go ahead and revert back to council for any councilmember comments
on the amendment All right, I don't see any so I will just say thank you once again councilmember Piedmont
Smith for having such equal eyes So will the clerk please call the roll on amendment 1 to ordinance
2025 40? Councilmember Stossberg. Yes daily. Yes Zulik. Yes
Rosenberger. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes Flaherty. Yes, Rob. Yes, Rallo Piedmont Smith. Yes Thank you that passes
unanimously. So now we're back to discussing the ordinance as a whole as amended So are there any questions
that anybody has for? director paycheck Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I have a couple
So Dr. paycheck in your memo where you summarize revised positions under utilities in page two of the
memo it says all of the six divisions at CBU have an administrative assistant except environmental programs.
So we're moving the line locates to the new line locates I guess that's a task.
to the new lead communications operator and have an environmental programs administrative assistant
to be the point person. So is that administrative assistant position new then? So utilities has a lot
of revisions in this ordinance. So I invited director Zager to answer any specific questions if that's
okay. Okay. Thank you. Please just make sure to state your name for the record. That would be great.
Catherine Zager director of utilities No, this position is not new. It's being moved from one division
to another the division It's being moved from is transmission and distribution They have someone who
does a lot of their administrative duties already. This was kind of I don't want to say a backup because
She was also doing a lot of administrative work but it to balance it out with environmental who did
not have a
Administrative assistant she's going to be moving over to here and some of those tasks are going to
be Distributed to our if you notice there's a lead communications operator as well. So that is a new
position. Well, it's Turning a position into a new position. So we have communications operators
That's turning into a lead communications operator who will have more duties and will take on the line
locates Like you're saying that will go to the lead communications operator And it makes more sense
in that position anyway So that the administrative assistant can work in the environmental division
Okay, thank you. Yeah, I thought it was a new position, but then it said fiscal impact zero. So I was
confused So it's just moving the position Thank you
Thank you. Are there other questions from council members? Councilmember Piedmont Smith go ahead. I
don't see anybody else Also in the memo there's a section called additional changes and it says
An updated collective bargaining agreement with ask me is being negotiated However, ask me representatives
and the city executive branch have agreed to implement a 5% hourly increase to take effect January 1st
So was that 5% hourly increase in our budget that we approved a couple weeks ago? Yes, okay Just making
sure And then my last
Totally different question When I look at the hourly rates table on page 92 of the packet that's within
this ordinance I see the minimum for several jobs is $16 and 66 cents, which I understand is the new
living wage for the city of Bloomington
have there been has there been any consideration to revising our living wage ordinance to actually match
what is in reality more of a living wage because 1666 is not something you can actually live off of
We haven't had that conversation at this time. I
We do realize it's expensive to live in the city of Bloomington and we try to do the best to
be as competitive as we can within the budget constraints and if we can increase that I'm sure all the
administration would be open to doing so but right now we just try to stay as aligned as we can with
like federal regulations of the minimum wage and what we feel would be competitive for those common
law positions and Hopefully in the future, you know, maybe we would be able to adjust accordingly. I
Thank you. Any other questions? Okay, I think then we're going back to public comment So this would
be public comments on ordinance 20 at 25. Oh Dear I think that we're on 40 20 25 40 as amended so if
there are any members of the public who would like to make a comment on
Ordinance 2025 40 as amendment as amended if you're in chambers, you can make your way to the podium
If you're online, you can raise your hand using the reactions tab. I Once again, don't see anybody moving
in chambers. Does anybody have a hand raised on zoom? Okay, I think then that we once again don't have
public comment on this so we will come back to council members for any closing comments regarding the
civil city salaries for 2026 and
Councilmember Piedmont Smith I Just want to express my interest in revisiting our living wage ordinance
for the city of Bloomington because we do have Some part-time and temporary positions that can be paid
1666 an hour as of January 1st, which is below an actual livable wage in Bloomington the MIT has a
living wage calculator and they say the living wage for a single adult without children is $20.96 for
Monroe County, Indiana. So I would like to revisit our ordinance. I know that we're coming into some
lean times as far as our budget, but I think it's a top priority of mine to take care of our employees.
So this is something I'll try to look into and work with the administration on before next year.
Are there any other comments from council members? I'll go ahead and comment to you and I just well
once again kind of revisit the equity issue that I brought up last year with regard to the cost of living
Increases so when we have this across the board percentage cost of living increase those making the
least amount of money also get the least raise and those making the most amount of money get the
The most raise even though everybody is Theoretically paying the same base amount say for things like
groceries and utilities and things like that So I just wanted to point out that the first step of our
grade 14 salary increases I
Will get a nine hundred and fifty dollar raise for the year in terms of that two point seven percent
cola Well, the first step of our grade 14 salary gets over thirty five hundred dollars as a raise and
over time That exacerbates the wage gap between those making the least amount of money and those making
the most amount of money and so it just exacerbates
inequities over time and there are you know doing it across the board Cola is kind of an easy way to
do it in the short term but in the long term it can also cause problems so I'll once again raise the
issue that it's important to kind of look at that in the future and not necessarily always give static
cross the board Cola increases one thing the county did a couple years ago was give additional increases
to those at the lowest end of the pay scale to kind of make up for a few years of that kind of differential
happening so I would just once again want to raise that as
An issue that we make sure to look at over time so that we don't have huge wage gap differentials Or
I mean we kind of already do but so that those don't get exacerbated even worse over time So unless
there are other councilmember comments Will the clerk please call the roll on ordinance 2025 40 as amended?
Councilmember daily. Yes, Zulek. Yes
Rosenberger. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes clarity rough Rallo. Yes, Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasberg. Yes So that
passes unanimously and on to the next I Move that resolution 2025 dash 18 be read by the clerk by title
and synopsis only second
Moved and seconded to introduce resolution 2025 18 all those in favor, please say aye aye Any opposed?
Thank you. Will the clerk please read? Resolution 2025 18 to approve the naming of the stadium district
in the area surrounding Miller Showers Park synopsis this resolution co-sponsored by councilmember Stasburg and
Names the area around Miller Showers Park as the stadium district This naming will foster community
pride promote economic growth and enhance tourism in the area I Move resolution 2025-18 be adopted And
I'm gonna pass this gavel over to councilmember Piedmont Smith as vice-president Okay
Do we have a presentation on this item? I think that that's me
It's a very short presentation. I just want to remind people that two weeks ago, we introduced this.
And the kind of conclusion at the end of the meeting was we postponed it to tonight to allow an amended
map to be presented. And I am very, very sad to say that so last week, the amended map or an amended
map got sent to me and to Director Coopersmith. And I didn't like it. And so we asked the GIS department
to change it again. And just in terms of their workflow,
not able to get that back to me until yesterday. So I do have it now, and I actually really like it,
but I did not feel like that was adequate time after receiving that map to make sure to get any kind
of feedback that needed to be received to make sure that the concerns expressed last meeting about this
by various members of our community, that I could address those with them and that I could give you
all the map and time for you to actually consider it. So on that note, I would like to move to postpone
consideration of resolutions
2025 18 until our next regular session on November 5th to allow for that time Second Okay, we have a
motion and a second to postpone resolution 2025 18 to November 5th Is there any discussion questions
on that? Councilmember Rosenberger. Hi discussion. Okay, I would like so my thought is I would like
to postpone it farther and
Because I don't think Matlock Heights has been consulted. I don't think Blue Ridge neighborhood has
been consulted I don't know what the name is of the neighborhood where all the student housing is But
I don't know if we've reached out to them Maple Heights had a neighborhood association meeting last
night But they already had a director who asked if he could speak at the meeting So ESD was not there
their next meeting is scheduled sometime
Late November and so that like the November 5th definitely doesn't give any time to get on the agenda
of a neighborhood association I Think that neighborhoods need to be consulted about this going to the
meeting last night It's this one thing sounds kind of small and fixable like people don't like the name
of it people don't want to residents who live in Maple Heights at least don't want to live in a district
called the stadium district and
And I think it is important to feel proud of like what your area is named and like I was just looking
up, you know, like when we renamed Eagleson Avenue There was a task force that was created it had four
meetings public suggested over 500 names Those were like wait, it was recommended to the Plan Commission
and I think it is like that big of a deal that We shouldn't be rushing this name and
We need to like have the public way in on it the way we have the public way in on naming other things
in our city I think in terms of like procedure we can only postpone things one meeting at a time. Is
that correct? attorneys I'm not sure which one of you wants to answer the question Yes, I think that
would be the most prudent course of action and
to continue it to the next meeting in this session which would be November 5th. It could potentially
be postponed again to another date beyond that. OK. Thank you. All right. Any other comments before
we vote on the motion on the table.
Deputy clerk still please call the roll on the motion to postpone resolution 2025 18 to November 5th
Council members they look yes Rosenberger Yes Sorry, yes Flaherty Yes rough
Yes, Rala Sorry Piedmont Smith. Yes Stossburg. Yes daily. Yes and that vote to postpone carries with
a vote of eight zero and I'll hand the gavel back to President Stossburg. Thank you next Legislation
no, you're fine. I move that ordinance 2025 dash 32 be read by the clerk by title and synopsis only
Second. Thank you. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Will the clerk please
read. Ordinance 2025-32 to amend Title 20 Unified Development Ordinance of the Bloomington Municipal
Code regarding use table amendment, urban agriculture. Synopsis.
This amendment and oh Is that wrong? Oh, yeah, it's not the amendment. It's the actual ordinance. Okay,
hold it Do it's an amendment Oh, yeah, I think that's the point of confusion. Correct. Thank you. I
was trying to find it Thank you very much. Yeah
Synopsis the amendment introduces a new land use urban agriculture commercial this new land use will
allow some expanded services and offerings within the city for urban agriculture uses beyond the current
similar land use of urban agriculture non-commercial the new proposed land use would allow for an outdoor
education come out component on-site employees and
and year-round retail sales for produce grown on the property. This use is proposed to be a conditional
accessory use in the R1 to R4, RM and RH districts, and a permitted use in all other districts. There
are use-specific standards, a new definition, and related adjustments to the numbering of proceeding
sections of the UDO.
This ordinance is in accordance with Indiana code 36-7-4-600. Thank you. I move ordinance 2025-32 be
adopted. Second. Thank you. Who do we have here to present tonight? If you could introduce yourself
for the record and then the floor is yours. Thank you, Eric Grulick, development services manager.
So this particular amendment was part of a package of amendments to the use table That came forward
to the Plain Commission earlier this year. There were five amendments to the use table That came forward
some of those have been previously heard by the council or I'm sorry five or six amendments to the use
table Some of those have been heard by the council two of those took a little bit longer to get to the
Plain Commission process so the urban agriculture and the single room occupancy ordinances
took a little bit longer and are coming to the council now. So this particular ordinance amendment for
the urban agriculture has been on the planning department's radar for a while, but because it involved
an amendment to the use table itself, which has certain public notification requirements, namely that
amendments to the use table, there's a zoning district map require notification to all affected property
owners, which in effect require notification to everybody
We we don't make changes to the use table very often so with a series of amendments that had come that
were Coming forward that were amending the use table. We packaged all of those together And so this
was one of those packaged ordinances that was coming forward So as I mentioned this has been something
that has been on the Planning Department's radar for a while as there are several sections
of the comprehensive plan and the climate action plan that encourage Changes to the zoning code
to Encourage urban agriculture uses, you know, we had been trying to look for opportunities to incorporate
that within the udio And so we came forward with an amendment to introduce this new ordinance called
urban agriculture commercial
This was intended to be something very similar to an existing land use within the UDO called
urban agriculture non-commercial. And so the differences between the two or I guess maybe more specifically
the limitations on the non-commercial use that we were trying to broaden did not allow for on-site education
components.
severely limited Number or the amount of uses that could occur on there required everything to occur
within a building Didn't allow for year-round sales. So we had encountered a situation or situations
where you know individuals wanted to do expanded offerings on a site to teach this particular use To
allow for this to occur outside of a building So while there is an allowance in the UDO for home occupations
that allows a very
Scaled back version of a commercial use, you know home occupations. You can have any number of commercial
uses accounting massage therapy piano teachers, whatever the urban agriculture non-commercial use
Didn't allow for anything to happen outside of building. So we came forward for this use and We allowed
for that outdoor component the education component the classes Allowed for year-round sales. We looked
to kind of expand what the UDO allowed for non-commercial uses to allow it for a little bit broader
scope And so we came forward to allow this as what's called a conditional accessory use meaning that
the primary use on a
property has to be established first so in single-family districts you know the list of permitted land
uses is very small so you have to have a permitted use on the property first and foremost and then this
is allowed as a conditional use accessory to that main use so it still is and it has to go to the Board
of Zoning Appeals or the hearing officer to receive a conditional use approval so this is simply creating
a path for this use to occur within the city there's still another path that it
It has to go through if individuals want to establish this on a particular property So it's being proposed
as a conditional accessory use so with this use
As I mentioned, we were allowing for an education component. So there's a limitation, what's called
the use specific limitations for this use that allow for employees. So it says that it allows for a
maximum of one employee or volunteer per minimum lot size of the district. And so what that means is,
for instance, in the R2 zoning district, where your minimum lot size is 7,200 square feet,
If you have a lot to 7200 square feet, you get one employee. If you have a lot that's twice that size,
so at least 14,400 square feet, then you get two employees. But there is a maximum amount of three employees
that are allowed on any given property regardless of the size. So this ordinance had to use specific
limitation to allow for employees that is relationable to the size of a property. Likewise for the classes.
So one of the things that we encountered
where the individuals wanted to be able to teach or have a teaching education component to this. So
we looked at how to apportion the number of the class size relative again to the size of the property,
looking at it from a perspective of a property of a certain size, the amount of people on that property
is proportional to the size of that. So the number of the class size is limited to two people,
Per minimum lot size. So again with the same relation to the employees if you've got a lot of 7200 square
feet you get to People per class size and then you know, you can you can increase that proportionally
But again, there was a maximum of eight enrolled employees or eight enrolled students
regardless of your lot size So those are some of the main you specific restrictions We do it did allow
for year-round sales Does allow for slightly larger? greenhouses or outdoor structures that are associated
with this use and
And so the the Planning Commission heard this at two separate hearings At their August hearing they
voted five to three to forward this to you with a favorable recommendation So that is the proposal that
the Planning Department and the Planning Commission has forwarded on to you So with that as I mentioned,
it'll be a conditional accessory in the residential districts The ordinance that left the Planning Commission
had it as a permitted use in all the mixed-use districts with no use specific
Restrictions in the mixed-use districts. So with that I'm happy to answer any questions Thank you so
much I do want to note that I have an amendment to this but I don't want to introduce the amendment
until after there's At least some initial councilmember questions about the ordinance as it is. So are
there questions from council members? Councilmember Rallo Thank you for the presentation so Right now
we have non-commercial
Urban agriculture and if I grow produce on my property I can sell that produce 180 days a year not 360
correct correct and I can sell it People can come and buy it for me people can I can set up a stand
I could take it to the farmers market. So essentially I could have essentially a commercial
Use in a sense of my property already. So in a limited degree. Yeah Okay so furthermore People hire
people for groundskeeping Trimming trees You know outdoor activity essentially So I could hire people
currently so I'm trying to discern exactly what
what the difference is here. So I could invite, I could hire people to come to my property. I could
hire three people to come to my property and work. And there's no restriction on days of the week or
the frequency of those visits, correct? Correct. Okay. So what about if I were to invite a class of
students over?
Right now I would be restricted in having students visit my property for, let's just say I plant native
flora in the backyard and some teacher has an interest in native landscaping. So maybe a class outing
involves students coming to my property. Is that restricted right now?
So that's that that gets it a little bit trickier So with the you do you know you have there's while
there is a permitted land use that is on a property There are a whole mix of things that might happen
kind of incidentally So yes, you you have a class that comes over and you just want to show them things
if that is something that starts happening on a regular basis every week
Then then that can start to change a little bit of the the scope or the the use of a property from a
residence to To maybe something a little bit different than that So that's kind of handled on a case-by-case
basis and we don't deal with that very often But there are situations where you know somebody does something
with such a regularity That that it becomes a little bit different than just a typical single-family
residence And so we have to look at it from a little bit different lens Okay
May I just ask a couple more from starters or would you like to move on? Why don't we see if other folks
have questions is that does that work or do you have something else? I just follow up to say since we're
talking about classes So it does the current proposed ordinance limit how often the frequency that classes
can come so for instance good classes come every day and
Well, so again, so it's a little bit different. So as I mentioned with the home occupation So the home
occupation language says that you can do certain activities from your house But if you have any employees
or customers visiting the premises, then you need a home occupation approval So there are limitations
in the UDO of you know, who is coming or what is what is the intent of?
Individuals coming there besides just to visit you so that's where I said, you know We have to kind
of look at it from a different lens of if you're having classes or you're having people that you've
hired You know and and landscapings are a little bit different Obviously people hire people to cut the
grass all the time or keep their flowers or whatever but if it's associated with an activity that is
is limited in some regards then we have to look at it from a little bit different lens of you know,
is this approaching or exceeding kind of what the UDO was intending for
Limiting it to just a single-family residence and you know activities that are customary Incidental
to that and kind of elevating it to a different level. So that's why with this ordinance we incorporated
language to deal with employees Because those employees might be coming every single day Very rarely
it could come every single day of every single day of the year So that is not typical of a single-family
residence where you've got somebody doing something on your property every single day of the year And
so we have to we always
Have to unfortunately in our world look at things from the worst-case scenario and like if this got,
you know Utilized to a maximum extent. What would that look like? How would that impact neighbors? What
would the impacts of that be? and so as we were looking at this particular ordinance and Writing it
with a broader perspective in mind of what the uses could occur You know, it does occur obviously that
you could have employees That would be on a very regular basis and what limitations might be appropriate for that
Okay, so just to summarize what you said kind of I hope I'm getting this correct that This puts a limitations
on the frequency of say employees A number of employees For that purpose of urban ag currently there
are none now before it for that urban agriculture non-commercial There are no limitations on that now
And the reason you know, so the urban egg non-commercial, you know There were there were two kind of
scenarios that we had kind of envisioned or had discussed when that was being proposed one of those
were You know kind of the the neighborhood serving garden plot
You know, so you've got a vacant lot within a neighborhood and all the neighbors just want to get together
and they want to Have their little garden plots on that neighborhood and they're growing the stuff there
for their use So they are the employee or there was a situation where somebody has a Little section
of their lawn and they want to have tomato plants or whatever and they want to sell those at the end
of the year or you know Whatever they generate it was a somewhat limiting thing because the size of
the property And the people that were using it lived on there. So this particular
Their use the people that are coming and going there don't live there, you know They could be coming
from anywhere and so again, like I said We were trying to look at it from a broader perspective of you
know, if this is hugely successful And as I mentioned, you know, that's kind of how we have to look
at these things Oftentimes is if this happens to the the most practical extent, you know What limitations
might be appropriate for that? And so that's why we felt like it was necessary to deal with employees
and then customers for classes
Thank you. Are there other questions from council members? Council members, sorry.
Thank you so much, Director Gulick. Could you tell us a little bit about the process that you just mentioned
that the accessory use element means that people have to go to the BZA? Is that correct? Yes. So this,
as I mentioned, this is listed as a conditional accessory use, meaning first and foremost, you have
to have a permitted land use on the property. So in the single family districts, that would have to
be, you know, single family
Residents or a duplex or something like that one of permitted use in that zoning district
And then, you know, with that use being on the property first and foremost, then you can apply
for conditional use approval to allow for this use specifically. So it's not allowed by right. You know,
in all of our zoning districts, you know, you have a list of permitted uses that you can just do by
right. You don't have to have approval for. And then there are some uses that are listed as conditional
uses, meaning you have to go through a specific process to allow for that use specifically.
What are the standards that the BZA will follow to determine whether or not somebody is given
this conditional use? Yeah, so there are about seven I think criteria in the UDO that deal with conditional
uses You know one of those is compliance with the UDO specifically Compliance with utility standards,
you know, there's an aspect that relates it to the comprehensive plan and so
Yeah, there are some very broad standards But then also certainly if there are any you specific standards
that apply to that we go through those you specific standards and assess the Proposal based on those
specifically and then once once a resident has this conditional permit or conditional accessory use
Does that last forever or yes. Yeah, so it runs with the property And does not have a time expiration on it
Okay, and then is there anything any mechanism within the current proposal that would allow any adjustments
this so can somebody currently you lose that that permit if they you know is there is there any condition
under which they could lose that permit. I would say that they would have to be a very egregious.
Instance where something really changed dramatically in the scope and scale where it would no longer
be appropriate at that location You know, so there are two different things that kind of in an enforcement
world that we deal with You know one would be a violation of the UDO where somebody is subject to fines
And then the second would be, you know If there was a situation where there was a conditional use approval
and to be honest, we've never dealt with this I mean we never had a situation where a conditional use has been
Rescended after the fact down the line, you know nine times that attend the conditional uses that we
see our Churches or schools or something like that So they would have to be something really drastic
That has changed where that that use was no longer appropriate there So if somebody was violating a
use specific restriction or any other section of the UDO, they would just be subject to fines So,
you know, we would obviously want to consult with the legal department very carefully Before we went
down the path of rescinding a conditional use approval. Okay. Thank you Thank you, are there other questions
Councilmember Rosenberger
Okay These are just high-level and I have a lot in the weeds as well But how many public outreach or
engagement meetings took place for this use change? I
We did not have any specific Neighborhood meetings as I mentioned, you know, this was part of like six
or seven Overall amendments to the udio, but there were you know notification letters that were mailed
out to every property owner in the city got it I just asked because there was just a duplex conditional
duplex put in on Wiley Street that would add a
Extra bedrooms to a house and the neighbors were super concerned about that parking and it took about
six months So just like when we're talking about adding a lot of parking I do I guess just like why
weren't there because I think that we were adding more cars in this scenario than we are for a duplex
and Why did we not find it important to engage the public?
I would say that you know that the public was engaged during the playing Commission process You know,
we received a lot of letters and phone calls and inquiries and as soon as all of the letters went out
You know, it's hard to do a citywide Involvement for a wide range of amendments for one thing specifically
said the playing Commission hearings was were That engagement process as well as obviously the council
meeting here tonight
Okay That sounds hard to for me Again, I just feel like people are really particular about parking I
want to also just say I don't disagree that this is a neat thing to add a teaching element I have other
questions. I don't know if I should just keep going or if people They're not related. We see if there's
other questions
Daily I just have a quick clarification following up on something you answered for councilmember Rosenberger
You said you received a lot of letters and phone calls regarding this was from community members This
and the single-room occupancy Pieces of legislation certainly received a high number of letters from
members of the public prior to the Planning Commission as well as at the Planning Commission hearings, okay
And were they, what was the general?
Overview of them where they were there some in support where there's some against how input in this
particular ordinance I would say there was a very high number of folks that were very concerned about
it We did see receive a lot of letters of people that were in support of it We also did receive a lot
of letters from people that were very concerned about it You know at the risk of summarizing or speaking
for other people, you know The concerns obviously were the incorporation of something that was viewed
as commercial zoning within residential zones
districts Seem to be paving a way for other possible uses that might be more impactful So yeah, thank
you for the clarification. Thank you. Are there other councilmember questions? Councilmember Flaherty
Yeah, first just could you Help explain the rationale for where this falls in the use table. It's under a
Like public civic institutional uses whereas it strikes me as maybe more analogous to like Commercial
uses or accessory uses maybe accessory uses where like home occupation lives for instance You are analogizing
this to home occupation except for you know being outdoors So yeah first question just could you explain
like why this fits under the civic public and institutional?
Yeah, we put it right next to where urban agriculture non-commercial is, just because it was supposed
to be, and it was just viewed as just a slight enhancement of that particular land use itself. Yes,
certainly you could argue that it could probably go in retail, it could go in a number of other different
subheadings, but we were really just kind of looking at it as a slight modification or expansion of
that existing land use, which is also why we just called it commercial,
Differentiate from that but you know, we were really not intending for it to be, you know a huge leap
in terms of differences between the two Okay, so it seems like customer Marala was asking questions
initially that kind of illustrated that Almost all of what's envisioned with this use is already covered
by other existing uses the exception is this kind of like educational home business component and
And I guess I'm looking at home occupation again by way of analogy in the UDO and There are some outdoor
components to the home occupation use if I'm not mistaken, is that right? Well, if you if you look at
the definition of home occupation, it says it occurs within a building And so that was the limitation
that we ran into and so we we can't
You know, you can't receive a variance from a definition. So the only way to really allow for this use
Was to give it its own separate land use and amend the use table to incorporate it in that regard I
guess related follow-ups. Could you also have updated home occupation to expand a little bit to include?
Both indoor and outdoor uses. Yes, certainly that could have been a different path that would have required
amending the definition But the concern with that with amending the definition is you then expand that
to any other home occupation And so sometimes, you know, there are could be other home occupations for
instance car repair that might not be appropriate You know having having somebody at their house working
on cars late at night having cars outside of a building You know might not be appropriate. So by changing
The definition you can allow for any number of things that maybe you didn't foresee or didn't want And
so since we were trying to fix something for one particular area, you know It seemed better to just
write something very specific for that use so that we're not opening up the door for anything else so
I guess I'm sorry last fall up here I Generally I am I with zoning I think we should try to take approaches that I
apply consistently across different types of things that are analogous. I can imagine lots of other
outdoor uses that might not fit in this new use, but also don't fit under the home occupation. And so
I guess my default is to prefer not something hyper-specific, but actually a set of rules that applies
more broadly. Sorry, it seems like that was not the approach the department chose to take.
Well, so, yeah. Sorry, I mean... No, no, that's okay. I guess I'm just trying to better understand,
like somebody who wants to teach outdoor yoga classes, or I'm thinking of inconsistencies, too, with
respect to parking, like Councilmember Rosenberger mentioned, and what's required in the home occupation.
The home occupation, yes, we can't imagine everything that might go on inside the home. There is also
this outdoor retail component that can accompany it.
But that's, like, the example of the type of thing I like to see. So even if it's an entirely new use
that is outdoor home occupation, I guess what I'm asking for is, like, wouldn't it be better to take
an approach that allows different uses, including things we might not imagine, like, and just appropriately,
like, A, it's conditional, and B, like, sets constraints around, you know, nuisance, essentially, like
noise or pollution or otherwise. Instead of this one use.
Yeah, certainly and so where we were coming from is we had not we had not encountered requests for home
occupations that were running into that restriction of Everything had to occur within a building Other
other than this situation so they you know There was a situation where somebody did go to the Board
of Zoning Appeals and they had to deny it Because there was not a way to allow for this used to occur
outside the building under the home occupation allowance So we had not encountered any situation where people
People had been coming forward to do something as a home occupation that they wanted to do outside And
so, you know without really a general impetus for fixing that and opening things up We're again just
trying to write something that was for the very specific Challenge that was in front of us. We'd also
never heard of that challenge until this particular instance, correct Thank you, thank you are there
other questions I
Okay, I see two wanting around two, so I'm gonna take one before we go to round two. And it's kind of
following up a little bit on, if we go way back to the beginning of this with Councilmember Rallo's
question, he theorized somebody who currently is essentially operating under the urban agriculture
non-commercial, they're growing things, they're selling things for part of the year, do they have to
Go and get this approval for what it is that they're doing right now just because they're making money
off of something No, so they so the the use urban agriculture non-commercial is listed as an accessory
use in every district You know with the use specific restrictions Or I'm sorry has a permitted use in
every single zoning district. So, you know those
And I know that there are a few isolated ones that are those occurring But oftentimes we don't know
where they all are because they don't have to get an approval from us You know, I can I can certainly
say that there are a few Vacant lots in neighborhoods that those neighborhoods are using for their local
neighborhood garden plots But I you know, I have no idea how many there are because like I said, you
know They don't have to get an approval from us for that use
Wanted to clarify that because I actually got that public comment from somebody who was concerned that
they would have to change how they were doing Like that they would have to apply for this special thing
So if whatever you're doing right now like falls under the ud. Oh, you don't have to do that And then
the other thing I wanted to ask again and councilmember Rallo's Kind of class situation of somebody
who just wants to you know Have people over so that you can teach them about stuff if you're not asking
them to pay you then
like then it doesn't really matter right like even if you're doing it every day if you're not getting
paid for it you're not having some kind of specific programming for it I mean I left five random teenagers
in my house with my kids today and I mean maybe they're learning something about the chores that I expect
them to do while I'm gone but
Yes, so again and that's that's subjective and and we look at you know, what is the intensity of it?
How often these things are happening? So certainly, you know if you are paying somebody for something
that's very clear that you have hired them, you know There are some contractual arrangement that is
happening there But if this thing is happening
Every single week and it's a different group of people you're you're you're exceeding What is the customary
incidental use of a property which is a single-family residence? And you know, there's not a you know,
I can't sit here and point of you know This one thing right here trips you up every single time. It's
a successive amount of things. It's the frequency It's the number
You know and and we don't deal with that very often but occasionally does happen where you know, we
have to say, okay Yes, ordinarily you did this one thing three times a year. That's not drawing our
attention You know, that's not generating calls from neighbors. That's not you know involving us. It
just happens and it's fine but if something is happening with such a repeated frequency or number Then
we have to look at it a little bit differently and say, you know Is this customary and incidental or
is this a separate use? That's that's just not
Okay, thank you Brown to councilmember Rallo So a lot of this seems to focus on the intensity of use
of the property so people are accustomed to a residential property having Essentially you may have a
party every so often to you know, you use the property in that way you have a big crowd of people come
over but What we're proposing here is for instance
Class coming over maximum of eight students depending upon the size of your property, but max eight
there aren't classes that really There are probably very few classes that are eight students in size
So you would have consecutive visits of eight sixteen twenty four thirty two students. I'm envisioning
You're nodding. Yes, so I'm
There's no limitation on how many classes you can have a day it's just the number of people at a time
and that's where I was going with this so then say Okay, that class visited that one last week now this
week There's another class from a different school and that occupies three or four days every day and
then and so forth so You could invent so there is no
Maximum of frequency of students visiting so it could extend to that what I'm the scenario that I'm
painting Alright, so I wanted that clarification What about value-added products? So I grow berries
I make jam. I'm gonna sell them. Is that permitted? I
No, so the way that the definition is written, you know You are allowed to sell the the food or the
food products that are grown on the site But you know turning that into something else Would not be
so the the value-added products as that is commonly referred to add Would not be something that would
be allowed with this use, you know that you know that that becomes a lot different You know, then you're
then you're becoming more of a grocery store or a bakery And you know, it's not a self-limiting thing
of how much you can grow on
But you know, I used four blueberries from this one and I made pies all year long or okay So the limitations
kind of go away with you throw that what about you? So let's let's just let me just explore this a little
bit. So what about compost? So I've got a compost pile and I package it. Can I sell that? What about
seeds I grow I grow some you know rare tomato and I package the seeds and then I and then I sell them and
That's part of the food that's a lot of selling. Yeah Okay, even though I'm okay That's within the things
that you're selling so whether they're still in the plant or you know You've pulled them out and sold
those separately, you know That doesn't change the fact that they were generated on that property and
they're in it of themselves. Well, okay I would say Okay, I think this needs a little bit more exploring
but I'm not gonna go there now. I wondered about the conditional use aspect of this and
So the BZA could consider turning it down could they consider turning it down on the basis of? Citations
so you've received a lot of citations say in the past for violating code and could that be essentially
used as a sort of an Argument for turning down this use whether you shouldn't be there at all without
the conditional use process happening first
So, you know somebody would have you would have to make a correlation between a violation Somehow and
its impact on this use But I mean there's not necessarily in the UDO or in that language that says if
you know for instance, you know Other uses have language that says if you've received an NOV from the
planning department You are not allowed to do that's use You know, we have not included that with this language
Certainly if the council feels that something of that nature should have incorporated, you know It's
welcome to include that as an amendment, but we we had not included that With this ordinance, I'm envisioning
maybe some amendments coming from this so I'm I'm I guess what I'll say right now is that I'm envisioning
this might take more than this meeting to explore this but that aside two more quick questions Does
this use attach to the property or to the resident property?
It runs with the property, but it could certainly be attached to a specific entity or The use that is
on that property so it can be different I mean it can be tied to that specific user although typically
it's not You know separate conditional uses if you say a church is approved is an appropriate use here
You know, it doesn't necessarily matter You know what what you are worshiping in that church a church
is a church But it could be tied to a specific entity
And what about tax status? Do I lose my homestead exemption if I'm running a business a farm on the
property? That's a separate question. We're not in there as long as you claim that as your residence
I don't I'm not aware that you are prohibited from using your homestead exemption But you know that
might be a question for the assessor. All right. Thanks I'll quit for now. All right continuing in second
round councilmember Rosenberger Thank you
Okay One question I thought of You have sheep on the property. It's big enough, right? They are sheep
Are they give birth in the middle of the night in the winter, right? Can you have a class at midnight?
for birthing sheep within this ordinance This feels so specific to me and I I
I disagree that it needs to be specific. Like, your example of a car mechanic, wouldn't you say that
you gave the example that cars would be parked outside and people might not like that? But if there
are no limits on the number of classes at all per day, per week, time of day, there could then be that
many cars parked outside all the time. I mean, are you...
Trying to say like a car parked for 24 hours is different than a car cars coming and going all day I
guess I feel like I would like these answered but I'll stop there Yeah, so what I what I was referring
to I guess were oftentimes with a
Historically, but this isn't an allowed use within the you do so I can't really point to specific situations
You know when you've got car repair in a detached garage They might be storing a car or two or three
in the parking in their driveway and so that might have a different impact I mean that was just one
example I guess of you know why we were saying that it can't occur outside And like I said, we were
just trying to solve the immediate problem at hand without trying to open up the door for others
Thank you, this is just continuing on with that this is where I just think we could have Staff could
have done a small use change to allow Teaching rather than create an entirely new but very specific
use That for like grazing. I mean, okay, so we have crops and pasturage right where you're allowed to
grow crops graze animals Let me see the definition, right?
cell crops breed managed cell produce From the or producing livestock. We can do all of that. It can
be an income producing property, right? That you can you can do actually milk butter cheese eggs meat
and honey On a property already and like what is missing from that is just the ability to teach Yeah,
that is that is certainly I guess one good distinction between us there so I
I would like to see this instead as allowing people who have Home jobs to teach so I do think it's important
that a mechanic can teach and like what about woodworking Is that allowed right now in this? Yes, so
you you can do that. So the challenge was that occurring outside of a building
That's the difference, you know, it's not the teaching thing It's that it's occurring not inside the
primary dwelling unit or the accessory structure. That's that's the the challenge that the definition
of home occupation was presenting so you so something like Something that happens outside like swimming
you have a pond in your backyard and city or you have a pool Can you teach swim lessons not in a pool
in your backyard? No, and you could not do that under here, but you can teach a
Right like someone to like butcher a cow I Would say probably no if that is a class that they are paying
for and it's not occurring within a building the definition of home Occupation would not allow that
but but this ordinance this use change would allow this type of property to have a class for butchering a cow
Under this ordinance. Yeah, you could do that. There's no limitation on what you're teaching You know
as long as it's associated with the well, I mean the definition really is kind of Raising crops of that
nature. I mean, I hadn't really thought it I guess that love. Yeah. Yeah, okay Just yeah, just asking
if you do like right making butter making cheese things like that but I understand we're not to have
like cottage businesses that like we're not allowed to
Makejam at home or anything. That's like health department level and it's different. I get that Okay,
I think that's I mean I can kind of quit for right now, but I do I mean I do think that I Do just think
that there I mean, I don't know as a lawyer I don't I think that there's a huge gray area here and it
like I think that we should allow more Outside home teaching. I don't think it should be set to a specific
use and I think kind of
Ask what you think about this. Okay, it is that just that like Because it also borders on like why did
we not do public? Engagement because like someone don't you agree some miss Rallo, right? Don't you
agree? Somebody could be more offended with a cow on a property even though that's already allowed right
but a cow on a property then like someone storing a car on a property I just think we should have engaged
the public and I think we can do it easier. What do you think? I
So I like I said, I you know the public engagement process was you know occurring during the Plain Commission
meeting, you know is three months That that was happening Yes, we certainly could have had very specific
meetings for this I don't I don't know that we would necessarily would have gleaned any more information
that wasn't obtained
during the Plan Commission meetings. We heard the comments, we heard the concerns and the questions.
The ordinance language was changed several times during the course of those meetings as we responded
to the comments that came out. So the Plan Commission meetings is, I mean, that's the purpose. One of
the purposes of the Plan Commission meeting is to give a public forum for questions and answers and
discussion. And like I said, this occurred several times
Commission means and you know here at council and so that's what we were describing when we had interactions
with the members of the public were You know, we had meetings with folks. We had lots of meetings with
people in the office before it even got to the Playing Commission you know, we had lots of Back-and-forth
discussion both email and in person and over the phone with members of the public So there was a lot
of engagement that happened with the public specifically and you know, we certainly grasped the challenges
that people
We're encountering and so we wrote the ordinance to try to address that, you know address how many people
are on their property because that's what zoning does You know, we regulate intensity and land uses
and and how do you balance those things? You mentioned earlier about You sort of said in passing
What this I'm sorry that I'm paraphrasing your statement, but you said something to the extent of if
this went to the full, you know scale that was that was possible and so sort of following on on these
on these questions First off, what is the scale that you see is possible in this context? Well, so the
scale would be something, you know where this happens every day
You know and without you know any you know, there's no limitations in here on number of frequency So,
you know, how do you how do you somewhat balance the intensity of the use on the property assuming that
it happens? You know every day every day of the week every day of the year And so that's where we were
approaching it from, you know, just limiting the number of people that were on the property You know
somewhat the hours of operation the size of the structures You know the the scale of the uses that happen
there, you know, those are the things that we tried to
incorporate in the use specific restrictions So, you know, obviously as you're aware enough the council
feel that there's other restrictions that should be Included or imposed, you know that you're fully
empowered to add whatever additional language you might feel would be appropriate and and would you
have the same concerns with swimming to the to the question that was asked before in terms of its scaling
like would you feel like you had to put a constraint on it if we were talking about swimming lessons
in my own pool and
Well, so I think it depends you know with anything of and you know this goes back to what I was just
mentioning about zoning and regulate intensity and impacts on adjacent properties, you know if we were you know
Home occupation restrictions restrict how much of your house you can use for that So that is a size
limitation that restricts the intensity in and of itself So when you open up the outside You've taken
away that restriction of how much of a property or a building is self-limiting in terms of intensity
You know, you can only you can only teach so many people piano at one time You know when you open up
your entire outside for something
then it can certainly be appropriate to regulate the number of people that are on there because the
size limitation has gone away. So yes, to answer your question, if this was swimming lessons, then yeah,
we very well could be having a discussion of how many people per class size would be appropriate.
And then just the last question on this is that a lot of residents have reached out to us about the
concerns around our abilities to enforce any type of the mechanisms that we're putting in place to deal
with both scale, noise, et cetera. What are your thoughts on our ability as a city to enforce or regulate
conditional use?
Yeah, so we have several staff members in our department that deal with enforcement, and they are busy
on a regular basis. So we deal with enforcement activities all the time, and that happens, and that
comes to our attention in a variety of ways. It could be through you reports. It could be through people
that contact us directly. It could be things that staff notices on a site. And so when we deal with
enforcement activities, we reach out to somebody and let them know, hey, we've received a complaint.
you know, you have a certain time period to bring it into compliance. Otherwise, you know, fines can
be assessed. And so we pursue those, and we have evidence both that is just given to us by adjacent
neighbors sometimes, information that we gather ourselves, you know, anything that we can to assess
whether or not a violation has occurred or is occurring. You know, we can pursue that. You know, to
the best of our ability, we can, you know, have a wide range of assets to try to figure out if violations
are occurring.
Thank you. I'm gonna pass the gavel over to councilmember Piedmont Smith because I think now might be
a good time to introduce the amendment Yes councilmember Stossberg I would like to move amendment one
to ordinance 2025 32 Thank you, I'm and I hope staff are you ready to put my little purple line document
up Okay, so
As the Plan Commission person, I've been through several of these hearings already and thought about
this an awful lot, which is one of the reasons why I have this amendment, as I said in the memo that
was in the addendum today. And so what was in the addendum today, which is why I want to show it as
a little different than what was in the packet on Friday, I added a few things that I didn't have time
to do before.
The original packet went out on Friday. So there's five main things that it does. The first three were
all the Friday things. One of that was changing the name from Urban Agriculture Commercial to Urban
Agriculture Farmstead.
adding a setback requirement for agricultural stands from the right-of-way and including all of the
our zones in the use specific standards that Applied to our one through our four and then the two things
that I added in the packet this week was making changes to the permitting in the mixed-use zones and
then updating the use specific standards and then
We realized that the definition of greenhouse non-commercial also needed to be updated. So in terms
of what's on the screen right now, I don't know if you can see that, but it is in the packet addendum
if you need to look at that. The first change there in purple is
Renaming urban agriculture commercial to urban agriculture farmstead and one of the reasons I did that
so there were several people at the Plan Commission level that were really concerned about that idea
of commercial operations in residential areas and
I really did feel like the commercial word didn't quite fit with the residential areas I don't feel
like farmstead necessarily fits well with the mixed-use areas But I would rather have something that
doesn't fit well with mixed use than something that doesn't fit well with residential and This also
came from the BCOS Group the Bloomington Commission on sustainability who defined some terms including
farmstead as an accessory use and if you actually look at kind of the details of
the differences between This I'll start calling it farmstead use and the non commercial use They're
really relatively small changes in terms of code and what is actually allowed So I felt like farmstead
was really a more appropriate term to use especially for the residential districts So that was my reasoning
for changing that to farmstead second if you look at the allowed use table under the mixed use districts
I added the asterisks to
some of to all of the mixed-use zones where I left it as a permitted use that signifies that there are
you specific standards that then would also have to apply to the mixed-use zones and We can talk about
that more later if yeah, I'll talk about that more later But then I also eliminated the permitted use
from some of those spaces so I took it out of the MN which is mixed-use neighborhood because those
We don't have very much MN and they were specifically designed to be like neighborhood node kind of
areas. And so I didn't feel like this use was necessarily appropriate in those, you know, kind of selective
neighborhood mixed use neighborhood zones. I also took it out of the downtown because once again, that
doesn't seem like it fit well and we only have one very small parcel that is mixed use healthcare right
now. So I decided we just don't need it in there and we don't actually have any
Zone any area of the city zoned em for employment. So I was like, why do we need to put that in there?
I felt like that was just excessive. So that explains that page if we want to scroll down To the language
once again upstairs updating farmstead In that first line there a one It was
That originally was just talking about greenhouses and hoop houses being limited. And so I had to add
in, because I had used specific standards on the mixed use districts, I had to add in that, okay, those
greenhouse and hoop house limitations are for those R districts. And then I added in section two for
the mixed use districts, the standards for accessory structures for that base zoning district apply
to greenhouses and hoop houses.
Section four down there. I added the five foot setback from the right-of-way and my reasoning for that
was that Currently so this language originally came directly from the non-commercial use but in that
non-commercial use You're restricted at the number of days that you can sell things a year. But in this
Use you could sell things every day all year long. And so I felt like at that point you can have a more permanent
Agricultural stand and that it was appropriate to have that set back from say the sidewalk or the street
and not have it right up on those public right-of-ways But I didn't want to set it back 10 feet because
there are some smaller properties that might only have a 10-foot setback from the sidewalk already So
setting it back 5 feet would make it an accessible thing for even smaller properties
Added in that section on number four about the unless otherwise allowed in terms of fences just to make
sure if in one of the mixed-use zones There was a greater allowance for fences that that would still
hold true in that mixed-use zone And operational standards number one I added in the restrictions for
residential multifamily residential high density and residential mobile home because I felt like those
were all very residential districts and that those retail sales prohibitions should Also be maintained
in those districts and not just the are ones through our force And then there's also an incidence of
farmstead needing to be replaced for urban number two There's also a farmstead reference that had to
get changed number four
once again adding in those other Residential zoning districts in terms of the power equipment and generators
and I also added the MS zoning district in there because at this point the mixed-use student district
is really highly residential and So I thought that it was important to have those more specific Timed
noise ordinance standards, but in other districts the noise ordinance standards will apply which is
sunrise to sunset and
Orp sunset to sunrise Number five added in that residential mobile home to the and number six actually
to the employee and educational classes limitations because once again I felt like it was important
to group that residential zone with the other residential zones That's kind of an equity issue. And
then in number eight it is specifying that the additional drive cut is only allowed in those residential zones
And then we can scroll down. I think next we go to the definitions for changes. It was kind of realized,
hey, we have this definition for greenhouses, and it says greenhouse non-commercial. But really, it's
just a greenhouse, whether it's commercial or not in terms of how it's being used in this. So it's just
taking out the non-commercial out of greenhouse and just calling it an accessory or temporary.
structure of glass And then the urban agriculture farmstead definition of putting farmstead in two places
purposefully leaving the Educational activities conducted on the property related to urban agriculture
leaving that as as urban in there and I think that that covers it any questions for me and
I'm sorry. I forgot that I was sharing Councilmember sorry Thanks so much. I'm councilmember Sasper.
Could you tell us a bit about? And I don't know if this is the most relevant time to ask this but the
three who voted no on the plan Commission because they haven't updated the minutes yet And I haven't
had a chance to watch the meeting Do you know why they voted no? And are and oh boy I I
I will be honest right now and say that that was a meeting I missed due to a health issue. So I'm not
gonna remember exactly who voted no, I did watch it. The primary reasons were, I think one person just
didn't think that it should be in residential, and I can't remember, maybe there were two like that.
One of the interesting things about,
Having been on the Planning Commission now for for almost two years There have definitely been moments
where things got forwarded to council not because the Planning Commission thought that it was perfect
or really ready to go but that because they felt like it had been fussed with enough at that level and
That it was ready to go to another level for maybe more fine-tuning fussing and so one of the things
like the the mixed-use stuff when I asked Mr. Grulick about that he was like well I'm not gonna get
into the philosophy of whether we should allow this use downtown and
But I was like, well, as a council member, I can get into that in terms of philosophy, whether I think
that we should allow this use downtown. And I don't think that we should, just in terms of density and
space and how that works. And there was a community member who talked to me a lot about vertical growing.
So yeah, vertical growing could maybe work downtown. But then we would have to maybe get into some real
restrictions, like only allowing vertical growing. And I just felt like that was a headache that I didn't
want to take on. And if somebody in downtown wants to do this,
Be a conversation later down the road in terms of writing in those extra restrictions. So yeah, I mean
I there was also a tie vote for Continuing it to the next meeting. So there was a four four tie which
then failed to continue it for one more meeting So there were definitely some people who thought that
maybe at the plan Commission level they should make more
Changes and then some people who were like no, I think that we've made enough changes There was a motion
that failed to get a second to forward it to us with no recommendation So I hope that that helps One
super quick follow-ups just pertinent to the amendment itself the the emphasis of Not being able to
constrain the amount of days and that was at you added this language or no, I
No, that was already there that they could that they could sell All year that that's one of the differences
between the non-commercial and the farmstead Awesome. Thank you. Sure Other questions about the amendment
Councilmember Rallo Well, this is kind of a process question So this is a complicated topic the Plain
Commission was and had some ambiguity about whether to
Continue working on it. It now comes to us You offered an amendment in the packet on Friday, but you've
modified it There may be other amendments coming I don't know I think that you know what I'm hearing
from all my colleagues. I'm wondering about If this was if there was a motion later to continue To postpone
consideration to November
Fifth How we could handle this particular motion that's on the table But it would with the proper thing
to do would be to withdraw it in order to consider you know, we maybe we can discuss this but we could
withdraw it at some point in order to consider potential other things and Just as a courtesy because
some of these things that were added were just added
And people living in these districts don't even may even not know not know about it yet So that's my
question Well, I think I can respond a part of it but maybe staff needs to respond a part of it too
in terms of people living in those districts and things that have just changed it was if anything like
my changing the mixed-use stuff actually limited it more and
And so yeah, I guess what you're saying is if somebody lives in there and they expected it to be permitted
and now it's not Would they be given a chance to comment that that's a good question. I think that Whether
or not this passes doesn't exclude future amendments from coming and I thought about splitting this
up into multiple amendments But at that point if you guys remember several meetings ago
Councilmember Flaherty amend it was the Transportation Commission thing councilmember Flaherty amended
the language and then councilmember rough did another like like repeal and replace and then it became
this really confusing bit of like one amendment really needed to They needed to be attached in a way
that they weren't attached so I just stuck it all into one and that's why this is all one amendment
and why I changed it from the one on Friday, otherwise it would have been a whole separate amendment
Besides a notification now suppose there are amendments that could be developing that would then Amend
this amendment that was then passed this evening. That's kind of a Awkward and confusing way in which
we Derived the final product it seems to me and I'm a little wary of that Attorney liner, do you have
any guidance on this?
Council could entertain a motion to postpone this main question and then the subsidiary Amendments also
would be postponed as well Just with that one motion to postpone does that answer your question I Thought
we had to dispose of the amendment before we go to the consideration of the of the ordinance as amended and
But we could Are you saying I? Mean I there's public here that want to speak. I want to make sure that
they're allowed to speak on the entirety of it To allow the public comment to her to occur tonight on
the main question, I think the question is Is it possible to
Postpone this amendment even though a motion has already been made for this amendment Would it be up
to the sponsor of the amendment to decide to postpone or not? Or is there some way the council can Weigh
in I need to look that up I think if the main question is postponed then all of the amendments are thereby
also postponed
But let me check in Robert's rules with respect to simply postponing the amendment itself. Well, is
that the question? I guess so. I mean, we the motion of adopting the whole thing is on the table to
write this motion for amendment. So which and I think that main motion could be postponed.
But my understanding is you'd like to receive the public comment.
Tonight as well, correct? I believe so councilmember Stasper. Yeah, I mean I would like the public to
comment on this amendment as well But depending on how council feels after receiving the comment on
the amendment if there's ambivalence Then I would probably prefer to withdraw it as it is and then
Have comments on the whole thing and then postpone as kind of a personal preference But I also am totally
amenable in terms of you know recognizing that this isn't perfect but also recognizing that in terms
of like stacking amendments, I think it's
It might be really hard to get one amendment that includes like all the things and and so this is a
repeal and replace amendment where it just replaces attachment a and so, you know, I'm also amenable
to then an additional amendment changing this one including the language that I Changed like if somebody
then wants to take something out like I mean, I think that that would be okay. So Does that make sense
comes member Rallo?
So I'm good with either I just do want to have the public comments on the amendment and I'd rather not
vote on it and withdraw it tonight then have it fail because people generally just aren't ready for
this piece of legislation I Was gonna second that I like the second option just because I mean it seems
that we're all Gravitating in the postponement direction. So I would rather that we could quickly get
to public comment and
not bore them with any more procedure, and then we can reintroduce the amendment when we next take this up.
Just a second though consideration here is that whether we should consider? postponing or rather referring
to a Different type of gathering for us so that we can talk about this in different way like for example
to a committee of a whole meeting that is at a different time so that we don't run into that we postpone
to next meeting and then we you know like it puts all this different type of time pressure on us, so
So we could refer to a council of the whole and schedule a special session or something like that. I
I think councilmember Flaherty was next No, you're good councilmember Daley I mean we do have a deliberation
session coming up with nothing. No No, we don't In terms of state code when we get something from the
Plan Commission we have to respond to it within 90 days and if we as council do not respond within 90
days then whatever the Plan Commission did at the Plan Commission level goes
So I had several people tell me that they wanted to push this off as long as they could Which means
that we have the space in terms of our calendar to postpone until November 5th But we have to act on
November 5th and I want to say that is one of the reasons why we had first reading two weeks ago so
that people had two weeks before the second reading to
To make considerations about this and November 5th is two weeks away at this point. That's another two
weeks So we could in theory have some kind of a work session next Wednesday night if people were available
But we have to act on November 5th or whatever the Planning Commission says goes Thank you Okay, this
is reminding me of
The towing ordinance that we did last term where it came to us in a form that wasn't ready for code
and like I don't agree that We should shop this ourselves. This is a staff led UDO change and like I
I personally like don't want to spend a whole work session trying to make this fit into our code like
I think this
a convoluted way to allow teaching on properties outside and I think it can be way simpler I guess like
as an attorney this Just creates so much uncertainty like okay. I call up and I want this is
for councilmember Stossberg I call up I want to start a farm. Do you suggest I? Do crops and pasture
or do you suggest I do urban agriculture? I
It was a question for Hopi, okay because We're talking we're actually supposed to be addressing the
amendment right now. This is about the amendment because the use in the use table on her on this amendment
I Can do crops and pasture as a necessary anywhere in this city? But then I if I want to teach I can
only do it some places but then if I start as crops and pasture I
Don't have to have my soil quality checked. But if I ever want to teach I do have to have my soil quality
like there's a lot more Regulation around urban agriculture than there is around crops and pasture and
the overlap is like 90% so I guess I just think we're adding a use that basically exists just for the
purpose of adding a teaching outside element yes, and my legal brain I just like
Why would I ever do urban agriculture if I can do crops and pasture? The crops and pasture like I did
not compare all of the uses in the use table Like I was looking at this one. I spoke with staff about
the overlap in different places Crops and pasture did not come up as much as
I'm scrolling Orchard came up plant nursery or greenhouse came up crops and pastures did not come up
So, you know, I I did not read that all the way front to back I think that mr. Gulick might have a reason
in terms of crops and pasturage, but it would take me longer than I think is useful right now to To
do that kind of comparison. I and I thank you and I mean maybe I
Director Gorlich can answer this that I like I guess I don't understand how we would or who decides
if your crops and pasture or urban ag and What if you want to switch from one to the other? I mean then
farmstead says you can't have farmstead is doing everything but livestock, but then Crops and pasture
you can already have livestock all over the city. I
Councilmember Rosenberger is this specifically about the changes? This is about the amendment Yes, because
the changes that were already proposed without the amendment. It is in the amendment see a yeah urban
Agri is in the use table. It's in the use table I'm asking why would we have different uses for urban
agriculture? Allowances than we do for crops and pasture Is that something that
Planning staff can address. Yes Yes, so crops and pasturage, you know That's allowed as a permitted
use and that could be the only use that occurs on the property Whereas the urban ag non-commercial is
secondary to a residence that is occurring there. So you could have both certainly you could have You
know you live there and then you have crops and and pasturage, you know if if that's allowed in that
district as well and you know, I said
When you asked us earlier, you know, like we've never had We don't have any there's one property in
the city that has crops and passage on it And so we've and it's just crops, you know So we don't have
this situation where everyone anyone has ever asked us Could I teach people on my farm how to do this
or that because we just don't have that? I
So it's so we've never had to answer that question It's actually crops and pastures as an accessory
use everywhere except for our one. Yes Yeah, so, you know, the r1 is the big lots, right? And there's
only a handful of properties that are that are zoned for that and only one of those actually has is
Crop everything else is just houses. I mean, that's okay. It's just allowed is the thing the udio allows
it right and
Pigs in the city, which is kind of neat Okay, I mean this is just part of my point that I Don't feel
like crops and pasturage was considered and they are almost the same thing Yes, they're in and that
that's You're not wrong
As we were looking at and we were trying to write language that would allow for something very specifically
without having trying to say well it's kind of like this. But it's not like that because it's a house
first and foremost and they're doing this other thing.
Since we were amending the use table. We approach it from their perspective Let's just write the one
thing that clearly allows what we're trying to do, you know without trying to change something else
and expand it Let's write the one thing and we can also write
use-specific limitations that might govern what we had already kind of encountered would be some concerns
with this specific use. So by allowing it as a specific use, it allowed us to write use-specific limitations
that maybe we don't want in the other situation for crops and pasturage or something else, and so we
could tailor it to exactly this use. Thank you. I still assert that this line of questioning is really
about the ordinance itself and not so much about
The amendment so let's be careful there councilmember Stossberg Just want to add I just kind of went
through the crops and pastures really quick and kind of compared it the crops and pastures doesn't conceive
of a lot of things that the urban agriculture farmstead does conceive of in terms of Accessory structures
and like greenhouse standards and selling things on the property and a lot of those other pieces that
go along with
Urban agriculture so I do think that that they're different but there is overlap and and it it's the
kind of thing that like maybe it could be trimmed down but this is you know debatably the the right
time to do that and I was very sticking very specifically looking at this usage that is that is the
new usage and Trying to consider this language when I made the use table changes in terms of allowances
should go to the public now to comment on amendment one and because the the amendment has changed since
Friday's packet and it as we've seen with the disagreement between myself and Councilman Rosenberger
is kind of unclear like what comments are just on the amendment and which are on the ordinance if any
member of the public wants to comment on this amendment I'm not going to be a stickler as to whether or
You're commenting specifically on the amendment or on the ordinance proposed. So let's just treat this
as open public comment at this point on the question of urban agriculture. If you have the amendment
in front of you and you have something specific of course that would be preferable. So any public comment
you can come up to the podium.
Do not know if we will get another public comment period on the whole thing tonight because there's
a seems to be a movement to postpone it. So please take your chance now. Um, and, uh, you need to sign
in at the podium and then state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. And then
we'll also check on zoom, um, after a few people here. Go ahead, sir.
Thank you. My name is Jeff steak. I teach at the law school I teach property law and I teach land use
controls. I live just outside the city limits So technically I don't think I can be here, but I'm hoping
that sometime I will be incorporated into the city limits I did not impose did not oppose the annexation
when we had a chance before
So I guess I just want to make the comments that are sort of general they'd speak to both the amendment
and the the original proposal
The larger the change that's involved the more potential for disruption that there is from that change
and the disruptions we're talking about here are people's Lives and homes and where they live and they're
a pretty big deal to a lot of people people have invested Maybe many times almost all of their their
Assets into their homes and then we're talking about changing them in fairly dramatic ways now the farmstead
may be a less dramatic way than the
than the original proposal, which would be a good thing. But both of them have, well, in both
the conversations, the topic of education has come up, and it seems that solving the problem with education
Reforms to the land use controls might be a better way than trying to change all the uses of the underlying
uses that we have here But I don't know whether it would but I think it it might it might be a smaller
change that would upset people less so I worry about the people who have Put their hard-earned money
into this hour also worry about their neighborhoods. We've already seen one neighborhood basically be
disrupted by this potential change and we're asking for
Trouble it seems to me when we allow big changes to Areas that have already been planned and big changes
that are not really needed in some ways I think this will make a minimal effect on that food supply
in America. There's not going to be much difference there and there are
Going to be and there is the opportunity for people to do all these farming activities only a couple
miles away You don't have to go far in order to be able to do all the things that people want to do
and so a commercial operation or a farmstead operation It seems to me is not really a needed change
and will cause huge disruption to people People's lives and to their neighborhoods. I'm also worried
about the the reliance on government it really seems to me that this is going to undermine people's
faith in the
government. People buy into neighborhoods, they put their money in there and they're counting on the
zoning and they're counting on these regulations and then along come big changes and
I can't count on the government. I've got to do things for myself. I've got to take my own approach
by buying into a neighborhood that already has some planning that is done through covenants and servitudes.
With regard to the can this be rescinded later? Probably not. This is going to be a takings problem.
As soon as people get invested in this, you're going to run headlong into the Fifth Amendment. You're
going to have that problem. So I wouldn't count on any ability to rescind any of this in the future.
Pardon that's your time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Who else would like to give a public comment Do
we have any hands raised online we do okay, let's take one more here in person and then we'll go to
a zoom participant
Excuse me James Glenn and I Want to go through a briefly a letter that that I've sent to most all of
you or my wife has But I think some of you may not have gotten it and So I'm gonna read as much as I
can in two minutes and 45 seconds We're here to express our opposition to this utl proposal
Because it allows establishments in residential neighborhoods across Bloomington. We understand that
the title is now farmstead but the there are no significant changes in the stipulations from the commercial
proposal so To repeat that with what we've said before is that we support the current urban agriculture
UTO provision and thinks it supplies everything needed in our city the inhabitants can
Cultivate grow sell market their wares and we think a dedicated gardening can do that within the current
UDO So we have a few Comments about policies and I'll go through as many as I can. There's no specific
orders of importance, but We feel that the city could is opening itself to conflict liability and lawsuits
about property owners rights As Jeff just said
Policy changes are likely to put the city at risk because they open up residential properties to a variety
of business uses with very few restrictions and how this policy would be controlled or what And are
we already had outside entities threatening To come up with legal action
Also, it was brought up earlier. What about taxation? Do they get to keep their homestead credit even
though it's a business? How are the properties going to be taxed? Are they in competition with the commercial
districts that are already taxed at a different way? Are they a competition with the farm store? That's
downtown, which I'm sure has to pay commercial property taxes What about water use where they be charged
a different rate is it
Irrigation taxation who went through some water issues a few weeks ago in the council How the properties
be managed they allow rental plots? And how does that affect the total number of people on them on the
property? Are they students are they employees? What are the limitations on that? It talks about runoff
into neighboring properties, but what about runoff into streams that
Propagate downstream and affect other people not even associated with the property The rules on the
right away we were confused about in the amendment why it was reduced to five feet And we still understand
that one and the educational component we talked about carbon footprint Bringing people into the property
from schools every tenant every every day would Not facilitate mr. Glenn that time is up
Thank you So I'm Connie cook Glenn I'm at 1300 South Brooks directly south of the spear properly so
I want to propose that we look at
The Indiana Farm to School project that is very successful in Ellitsville. The children are growing
food on the school properties. It's completely equitable because nobody has to drive. The carbon footprint
is very low. No buses have to come to any homes.
I think it's a fantastic program. It is looking at bringing organic growing on a regular basis to all
of the public schools in several cities in Indiana. I'd love to see that as an alternative. I'm very
concerned about 360 days of commercial or farm studies. I just don't understand. We've been told by
two city officials that there would be no enforcement.
I'm glad to hear that Erica said the opposite tonight, but that is not what we've been told. We've also,
we're concerned about it feeling like a mandate. Our block is very aware of it. I don't think that other
neighborhood associations have dealt with it. Anyway, the ones that I've talked to, they know nothing
about it. So we're opposed to the change. We'd really like to meet again and be able to talk about it.
There are lots of other concerns that we have. One is property values. We only bought our house five
years ago, as Jeff said. It's a major investment, a huge, huge investment. We have one neighbor who's
working three jobs to pay their mortgage.
Is that really what we want to change and make the public feel like they can't trust that? I mean, I
think it's it's quite an issue Maybe property values don't occur to others But when we look at the house
across the street that has been unable to be sold It's really really a problem And we've understand
that to be because of the neighborhood character that has already been changed
I'm gonna ask you to really look at everybody's opinion, not just the proposal that is in front of you.
I also wanna read a very quick thing from Deputy Mayor Knapp, which she responded to me very recently
when I sent a note in asking if we could meet with her. She said,
I'm very aware and sympathetic to the neighborhood response. I've personally been to the property in
question. As I told the Spears at the time, the issue is not whether gardening is good.
or whether their organization is nonprofit. Carding is good. Nonprofits are good. She didn't say that,
my editorial. The issue is the location of the endeavor and its impact on the neighborhood. Like other
city staff, I urge them to work with their neighbors and to consider locations already zoned to be suitable
to their enterprise. One second. Thank you so much. Thanks for all the work that you do. We've been
to several meetings. It's amazing to see your dedication. So thank you.
Thank you, let's go to Zoom and go to the first person with the hand raised on Zoom. Please state your
name clearly for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes. Hello, my name is Joseph Winnia.
I'm a resident of the city of Bloomington and I would like to speak in general support of the proposed
urban agriculture farmstead land use and its amendment as well. I appreciate the council members' questions
and considerations.
and I share your sense of importance of making the amendment as robust as possible, though I really
hope that the intended goals of the amendment don't end up dying in the process. In the midst
of a destabilizing climate, I would argue that it's actually very important to allow for a greater ability
to grow and distribute food hyperlocally, and to allow for the education for others to do so as well.
And I guess lastly, I'd just like to note that this amendment really precisely fulfills the city's climate
action plan goal FA3, which is to increase and stabilize the local food market and specifically its
action item FA3A2, which is to revise zoning ordinances to remove barriers to urban agriculture. So
once again, I appreciate the council's consideration and I hope that you also see the value and the
necessity of the goals of this amendment. Thank you. Thank you.
Let's have the next person on zoom and then we'll come back to in person Up to three minutes and we've
asked that you start by stating your name clearly Thank you. My name is Daniel cockles CEO NK le Like
professor steak. I'm a professor in the law school, but I have no expertise with respect to zoning and
I do have nonetheless one specific comment about the proposed amendment in that I don't know if this
was in the original version, but there appears to be a discrepancy in terms of the question asked earlier
by Council Member Rollo about value added products under operational standards under the amended version
of urban agriculture farmstead operational standards
point one is consistent with what Mr. Grulick said, basically that the exception is for the sale of
produce grown on that site in an unprocessed form. Conversely, if you look at the definitional provision
under urban agriculture farmstead a few pages later, the reference on the second line of the text is
to the sale of food products from food grown on the premises
which seems to be a bit broader and maybe would create the potential for selling things like jam, jelly,
and whatever, which I think Mr. Wheelock said was not part of the intention. My more general comment
is simply that I agree with the comments of the members of council who indicated that this really was,
and I would suggest should be, about outdoor educational activities and deciding what the appropriate
limits on such activities ought to be
rather than, for example, expanding the potential for hoop houses from 15 feet high to 20 feet high,
expanding sales from 180 days to 365 days, permitting the greenhouse and hoop houses to be not just
25% of the property space, but 50%. All of those things seem to be an expansion that could quite dramatically
affect residential neighborhoods.
and I don't see what the justification is for those particular aspects of the proposal. My final point
would be that with respect to the BZA standards for permitting conditional uses, it seems to me remarkable
if Mr. Gruelich is correct, that prior violations of city code cannot be considered with respect to
an applicant for a conditional use. If that is in fact the case, then I would suggest
that in the context of this proposal or otherwise, city council ought to correct that matter and make
it clear that indeed the BCA could take account of such matters. I appreciate very much all the time
and attention. I'm very impressed by how members of council have carefully looked at this and I appreciate
everything you do for the city. Thank you. Thank you.
We come back to live and in person here in council chambers the next speaker, please Thank you. This
is Christopher mg again as a resident of Bloomington not and any other capacity Just going by the discourse
and I was hoping to learn something and this has been kind of a convoluted discussion
over something that's not even by right you do limit and one thing that I want to just make sure that
anything time it got anything goes to the bza it's a process this is not something that Anyone takes
lightly that goes into that and into that process I'm gonna be here tomorrow night and I'm not looking
forward to it at all the other thing is how much
we're sort of weighing in on getting the public engagement aspect of it. We heard last week
at the Preservation Commission, I always say discourse meeting, but anyway, about what those neighborhood
associations, what sort of input you're getting from them and if that is really of the neighborhood
and of the residents as a whole. I live in Sunnyslope. We don't have an active one. So I question how much on a
Conditional use UDO amendment. We need to do each time we change that we have elected officials. You
are elected officials You're getting input from your constituents and making decisions for us don't
that don't discount that aspect of what you do and what we count on you to do is make good educated
decisions and Have a philosophy that we voted for or against You your candidacy as an elected official
so it's important to sort of
Realize when we go into these things that not everything can have complete public engagement over every
little thing that we change in the UDO Here's I don't take the neighbors lightly. I think these are
good concerns. I don't have an opinion on this whatsoever I'm just trying to learn what it
what it constitutes, but we just Need to keep that within reason because it historic preservation last
week We didn't think that was a good indicator those neighborhood associations were those sort of fringe
people very engaged
with Events here in the city. So I just wanted to want to kind of get some balance here as I sit through
this sort of long discussion On the UDO amendment by appreciate everybody's time and effort on this.
It is hard It is difficult and as we've gone more Longer on this process more questions are being asked
and I don't I don't have a way out of this any Easier than any of you. So I wish you good luck. I
Thank you. Do we have anybody else in council chambers who would like to make a comment? Please be sure
to sign in and then state your name and you'll have up to three minutes Hi Steve Olin I Look at this
from two different perspectives one is as a former
Member of the Parking Commission current member of the Transportation Commission, although I am not
speaking for either Commission I'm speaking only as somebody who's had experience with them that whenever
I hear discussion about transportation With respect to an ordinance like this especially when it comes
to parking I try to encourage decision makers and residents alike that there are tools for addressing
concerns about traffic
And parking certainly the neighborhood parking zones that the city has had for more than 30 years Have
been successful at they've proven they can regulate the use of the public right of way in a neighborhood
and while Those still need some adjusting In fact adjusted ones might be able to help in a situation
like this one But I'd also like to point out
that almost 20 years ago there was a debate in this chamber about the mere possession of chickens in
2006 and again in 2011. I remember the objections to chickens at the time. They were noisy. They were
smelly. There's a threat of avian flu.
But the ordinance in 2006 was as rigid as it could be. It called for hens and no roosters, a limit of
five. The hen house had to be made of streeted materials and set back from the street. And every property
owner adjacent to the petitioner had to agree to not object to living next door to a chicken. And yet
those objections still came up.
Fear without basis. And I wanted to bring that up now just to say, I don't hear anything different in
this proposal. I hear fear of change, which I understand, but I don't think that we should be making
our decisions purely on what we're afraid of, what might happen.
What? People are afraid are going to happen without necessarily any hard evidence to back it up. So
In that spirit, I would urge you to consider It is what the wit I would use I Hope you consider it in
that spirit. Thank you Thank you. Let's go back to zoom. Is there anybody else with a hand raised online?
Once you're unmuted
please start by clearly stating your name and then you will have up to three minutes. Hello, my name
is Jamie Scholl. I'm a commissioner on BCOS and have created a document that's being heard now and which
council member Stossberg had mentioned in regards to some of the definitions that we have
We pulled out and we're working on that document. So if anyone wants to tune in to that meeting, we'll
be talking about it next session. I want to address a few different things. I had written a letter to
the editor of the HT regarding the history of the Bloomington community.
farmers market. I've been looking for this for over a year. I found that Mayor Frank McCloskey in the
1970s, like 74, 75, had wanted to create this. It was in the height of the oil embargo during a recession,
a very deep recession, so that community members had a location to sell plants, produce, and other goods.
It was an accepted use
throughout the city to be able to grow food or other products to sell them plants and things like that.
Let's see, I have some notes here. As someone who's been attending and growing and doing things like
this in UA since
for a long time, but especially in the city since 2008, the terminology is a bit confusing. Crops and
pasture is UA. Orchards is part of urban agriculture as well. So to have those different is a bit confusing
for the general public who are interested in this.
I'm going to refer back to the Bloomington Food Policy Council. I was a founding member of that. Our
first survey report showed that those who participate in food gardening in Bloomington are organically
based, unlike the chem lawns and flower gardening, which have more chemicals. I want to appreciate those who
talking about property values because I do believe aesthetics is important. We had at IU many years
ago, Fritz Haig of Edible Estates fame. He also has a book that's probably still in the arts library
at IU that he did not pay attention to these gardens that he installed in yards.
I also wanted to mention UA Rooftop Growing Middleway House has done that in the past. I'd like to point
out that home-based vendors document is from 2022. So they do have some products there. The
city's regulations seem to be smaller. Just wanted to thank Council Member Stossberg and the Planning
Department for addressing this issue and hoping that it
later thank you time anybody else online anybody else in council chambers want to give a comment I see
somebody coming up
Microphone down this one or this one either one any old one, right? Yeah, got it. I had long remarks
prepared I don't think at this hour that that's the best use of your time or the people in the audience
this time I would ask you to consider very seriously for reasons that have been raised tonight not merely
a postponement, but a denial of
This really needs a lot of work. And as Council Member Rosenberger has suggested, there really has been
very little communication. Two hearings that happened during the summer months where not every member
even of the Planning Commission was able to attend is not my idea of great community involvement.
Very late. I didn't see it until I got to the room the last changes, but even on Friday It was hard
to see I had some so I would urge you if you care to postpone to think about it Do it but I would urge
you to think carefully about denying it in the window of 90 days that you have Because it's not ready
for prime time
I can give you a few highlights of why I think it's not ready for prime time, including the fairly carefully
written changes that President Stossberg has introduced in the last few days that very few members of
the public have had any opportunity to look at. So let me say that there's an issue of scale.
And if any of you would care to have them, I brought pictures of me, roughly five feet tall, standing
next to a 15 foot currently allowed hoop house, not a 20 foot. And there are several of them. This one
happens to be 24 feet wide, roughly 15 feet high, and 94 feet long. It is not in Bloomington. I just
happened to find it and stood in front of it. So here I am standing in front of it, and it's big.
In some of the pictures, you can see a reasonable-sized tractor, and it's dwarfed by the size of the
15 feet high and 24 feet wide. Ignore how long the building is. So scale is one. The second is intensity.
Several of you ask, how many hours a day can you teach? How many times a week can you teach? Is there
ever a change? We have a very narrow street. Third is frequency, also intense.
And the fourth is a sort of second story grow lights that are currently on the property that run during
the winter months. They're in the second story, and it's very disconcerting to some of the neighbors.
So if you allow this, you're inviting more intensity, more frequency in what is a
One neighborhood and I don't think that's appropriate as someone who lives on the block and has lived
there for 37 years Thank you all Thank you. I offer these for anyone who would care All right, we have
another member of the public willing to comment here in council chambers I
Good evening, my name is Ellie Spear and this is past my bedtime, so bear with me.
Bloomington has long been recognized as a progressive Midwestern city that not only sets ambitious goals,
but also takes action to achieve them. Tonight, you have the opportunity to begin to connect
the comprehensive plan adopted seven years ago and the climate action plan adopted in 2021 with the
unified development ordinance at the residential level. Unfortunately, in the years since those plans
were adopted, no action has been taken to remove the urban agriculture zoning barriers
Identified in them it is past time to eliminate these barriers so that residents Can take every possible
action to strengthen our community and advance our resiliency goals I agree with several council members
The planned Commission should look at the home occupation definition to include outdoor use of one's
property But we have to start somewhere. So let's start with urban ag Farms dead and let's start now.
Thank you. I
Thank you. Did anybody raise a hand on zoom in the meantime? Okay, please go ahead. We'll take the next
person here in chambers and be sure to remember to Sign in legibly and then state your name and you'll
have up to three minutes. I think the pin is missing I Got it it fell on the floor
Asking the City Council to please vote no on expanding options. I'm sorry. My name is Kathy Barry. I
wrote it down Yeah, my name is Kathy Barry and I'm speaking on ordinance 2025 32 I'm asking the City
Council members pleased to vote no on expanding options for commercial and or public venues in residential
areas I respect and feel that very much work and thought has been spent on developing this ordinance and
But much more work and thought has been spent on the existing UDO Including a complete review and update
just five years ago the UDO from its very first draft has named uppermost goals for good stewardship
of the city environment and the social and economic health of Bloomington residents one guiding principle
cited at the beginning of the current document is goal number four I quote
Protect the character and stability of residential comma institutional business Employment and national
natural areas in quote. I understand the word areas to refer to zoning The difference between residential
and commercial activities is defined in the various use categories I agree that small and often home-based
businesses are vital to the economy of Bloomington and
If business owners, including farmsteaders, want the advantages of working from their residence
in residential areas, I think it is fair to continue to enforce the current limitation on how noticeable
the business activities are to the surrounding neighbors. The existing urban agriculture non-commercial
use allows people to grow food on a large scale in residential areas.
Love working outside and I have a home garden where I grow many kinds of plants seasonally any gardener
or farmsteader in Bloomington and Rowe County Has at least four weekly farmers markets including year-round
options There are at least three retailers that offer options to promote and sell produce gardening
supplies and or plans and ideas the UDO also provides for home occupation businesses and
Key to this provision is that residential character and scale be maintained at the site of the home
occupation.
Since growing plants and raising small animals requires sun and earth, of course some activity
of non-commercial agriculture and farmsteading will be visible to neighbors. But I think a gardener
in a residential zone who wants to engage the general public should have the same limitations as any
other business. Saying this, I also want to remind all businesses that other parts of the municipal
code have provisions for on-site commercial and public engagements through, say, a special events permit.
I think the current provisions of the UDO without any form of ordinance 2025-32 will continue to allow
people to teach or model home gardening or farmsteading and to freely grow as much food for themselves
and their city as their inclination allows Thank you. Thank you There any other members of the public
who would like to comment I
Hello, my name is Matthew Austin, and I work on an urban farm here in Bloomington, Indiana. There are
a couple of points that I wanted to quickly make. The three and eight seems pretty arbitrary. Originally,
the statement was one employee or volunteer and two students for every minimum plot size, which is .165.
That makes a lot more sense than capping it at three and eight. Three and eight means you're gonna have to have
multiple classes come if you're gonna teach. So it makes more sense to have something standardized that's
based off of the size of the property, because we don't want, you know, class after class after class
after class, you just wanna get it one and done really quickly. And then, what one of the lawyers brought
up earlier, I think maybe Mr. Conkle, saying there was a discrepancy between home-based products. It
does seem that there is a discrepancy there. It might be run afoul of Indiana
cottage industry laws here in Indiana when it comes to fermented products and jams and jellies. So that's
definitely something to look into. And then when it comes to the farmstead, that makes a lot more sense.
There's been a lot of anxiety around the commercial designation, and we definitely made comments. I,
my sister Ellie Spear, made multiple comments to planning and transportation that that was gonna cause issues.
And then with Jamie Scholes help getting those definitions through because and into your hands So you
can have a much more specific designation. It makes a lot of sense
As well, and then if you look if you were to take a GIS map of Bloomington and look at who the supporters
are Versus that are supporting this amendment versus those that are not supporting this you're gonna
notice that all the non supporters are in the Covenanter neighborhood or just right around there Which
is right around my sister's urban farm and if you look at these supporters, you're gonna see it's spread
out through in the entire city So keep that in mind that this is not just a
This is an entire city thing and then the comprehensive plan the climate action plan all those things
support Exactly what we're doing. We just happen to be the first ones to break ground on that and force
the issue But this is far This is past time to be passed
And it needs to be done. We have much bigger issues when it comes to climate change. We need more food
to be grown locally. We need people to be taught. And why not do this outside the city limits? Because
there's many people that don't have access to that. This is within multiple school districts, very easily
accessible. It's right on a bus line. And we need more access to people teaching, to people growing.
And yeah, that's it. Thank you very much for your time, your consideration. And please pass this.
Pass it with an amendment with allowances for larger amounts of people. Thank you Okay, last call any
other public comment Are there any hands raised on zoom Okay, we will come back to council members At
this point we have a motion on the table for amendment one Are there any comments
Question yes councilmember Flaherty. Did we get a direct staff? Response or input to the amendment itself.
I don't believe we did and I was just curious to hear staff perspective on the amendment Mr.
Grulick Yeah, so we had worked with councilmember Stossberg on the language in the amendment So we did
not have any concerns or see any challenges, you know, we worked with her a lot on Identifying any conflicts
and so it seems like you know, what's in the amendment?
Is fine with staff All right, any other comments on the amendment Councilmember Stossberg I I guess
I said in the beginning of this that if people didn't feel ready to vote on the amendment that I would
withdraw the amendment I was looking through Roberts rules I think I'd rather table the amendment if
we were going to do something but if I motion to table then there can be no
No, it's not debatable to table. So I guess I'm interested in hearing from my colleagues.
What they want at this point to do with the amendment but also what they want to do with the whole thing
there was at least one public comment or that was basically just like please just deny the whole thing
and Really feeling like well, it's it's just not ready and there's not enough time to make it ready
I I don't agree with that sentiment But if there's a majority, you know, I did spend you know the last
couple weeks going Am I just spinning my wheels doing this amendment because is the majority of council
just gonna vote it down anyway?
And should I bother making any changes on this right now? And so I guess I'm interested in hearing a
little bit about those twin sentiments of should we just table this amendment and kind of get it out
of our hair right now to kind of lay the groundwork for more amendments in two weeks and an overall
postponement of this whole thing? Or is a majority of council like, yeah, it's not even worth postponing it.
Because nothing you do is gonna make me want to vote yes on it Councilmember comments councilmember
Zoellick Hi, thank you. I don't I don't mind the amendment Personally, I will say I do think we should
I don't think we're ready to vote on the resolution as a whole tonight, but I don't mind the amendment
and I'm curious to see what others think
Comments Councilmember Ruff I sort of agree with councilman Vazulik and maybe some slightly different
angle Whether the final product has this amendment or not That's not what would is likely to make me
decide whether I would support the overall Die you know the overall proposal or not, so I'm I'm happy to I
Tonight I think either way with or without this amendment. It's not going to have a significant impact
on how I feel overall Other comments from councilmembers House member Flaherty Briefly with respect
to them and I'd say the exact same thing as councilmember rough. I'm happy to vote on it tonight I don't
think it's material to the way I'm thinking about this ordinance as a whole
Take a point of privilege. I I thought that councilmember Stossberg was trying to get a read on whether
colleagues Would just like to vote no on this ordinance tonight in my I was trying to get both a read
on I mean I don't want to I don't want to table this until I know that people don't feel ready to vote
on it, you know if the majority of council members would
Approve the amendment that we may as well vote on it now But I also wanted to get a read on on whether
we should bother postponing it as a whole if a majority of council members Would just deny it kind of
no matter what? Like regardless of the amendment and so like what I heard so far is that the you know
Nobody objects to the amendment. So, you know I haven't heard from a majority yet
Mays will vote on the amendment at this point based on what I've heard so far But that doesn't address
the postponement later of the whole thing, which is a different question that I don't think that anybody
is quite answered Councilmember Rallo, did you have your hand raised previously? there are too many
moving parts here and I I'm uncomfortable voting on an amendment. I'm uncomfortable voting on this topic
I think it needs further debate
I do think it needs more work Is it appropriate to vote it down completely and then send it back to
the Planning Commission? Or is it I don't know I mean it I think a committee of the whole might have
been the process tonight, but that said You know, we're in a regular session so I Will likely vote against
the amendment and then I will
I will offer a a motion to postpone consideration, but I'm curious to know how my other colleagues feel
about Voting up or down. Thanks Other councilmember comments councilmember Rosenberger Thanks, I will
plan to vote no on this because I think I mean I'm happy to do it and I
The amendment is de minimis to me because I would vote no on the legislation and it doesn't matter to
me if the amendment is in it or not I Don't think I'm not opposed to allowing classes on properties.
I'm just I don't think this is the way to do it So I think this is a very convoluted way. I think there's
a ton of legal gray areas I think going from no classes to Unlimited all times of the day is also the
wrong approach. I think only limiting it to
One type of property is the wrong approach. We're gonna come back and do this again with swim lessons
You know, like I think this is not right. I think looking at home occupation and allowing Outside teaching
or just allowing outside teaching somewhere else is on our residential lots is the way to go Any other
councilmember comment I will just say that I
I think I agree with council members rough and Flaherty that I Could vote on this amendment. I have
no problems with this amendment But I do have issues with the ordinance, but I'm not ready to vote no
on the ordinance I think it maybe it can be saved So there you have our input for most of us anyway
unless other council members want to
Yes, just to say that I think process is important and I really appreciate councilmember Council President
Stossberg's work on this Clearly she's considered it very very intensely the problem I see with it is
that it came very late and there are still people who may have wanted to Speak to it
but We're denying that opportunity by voting for it So that gives me a lot of trepidation whether I
think it's good or not. I'm uncomfortable with that process. Thanks I think that I just heard that a
majority would would approve the amendment and I think that it would honestly be easier going into a
postponement two weeks from now having this base change even if
the current changes end up Being changed again in terms of a future amendment. So I guess that means
I want to call the question on the amendment Are there any final comments on the amendment Deputy clerk stole
Could you please call a roll on amendment one to ordinance twenty twenty five dash thirty two? Councilmember
Rosenberger, no, sorry. No Flaherty. Yes Ruff. Yes Rollo no Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasper. Oh, yes
Daily, yes All right that passes with a vote of five to three Now I will hand the gavel back to the
councilmember Stossberg as president Okay. Thank you So now we're talking about this
Ordinance as amended Councilmember Piedmont Smith did kind of an open public comment before that invited
comments not just on the amendment but also on the ordinance as a whole So at this point, I guess I
would like to entertain council members again for Questions or comments or motions? Regarding this amendment
or regarding this ordinance as amended. I
Sorry motion to postpone to our next regular session All right, I would like to clarify that motion
that our next regular session is November 5th Are there We we are in a motion to postpone Allowed to
have a debate about that. So would anybody like to speak about that motion to postpone? I
The only thing I would say is we postponed Stadium district also to that day. So I don't know how much
is going on. I think that's a sticky topic too so I don't know if it makes sense to do all of it in
one night or This would have to be like tabled with the intent to bring back and after in the next session
I think So I just want to put that out there. That would be a very long night or if we would vote tonight,
I guess I'll address that
while I'm looking at the schedule. When we were in our scheduling meeting this week, honestly, I've
assumed a third reading on this particular one. We've kind of assumed that all along in terms of scheduling
and we also assumed that that stadium district would be next week as well. So currently next week, there
is just that second reading on the Title II Amendment that we had the first reading on tonight. So that
was accounted for in the scheduling.
Are there other comments related to postponement? Then will the clerk please call the roll on the motion
to postpone ordinance 2025-32 as amended Council members, sorry. Yes Flaherty. Yes Ruff. Yes Rallo Yes
Piedmont Smith. Yes Stasburg. Yes daily
Yes, so look Rosenberger no Councilmember Piedmont Smith got so used to being president again, that
was pretty hilarious that passes with a vote of seven to one Thank you guys so much Thank you to the
many community members both on zoom and in the room who have contributed to this and also to the several
members who have contributed to
Commission meeting comments as we went along and submitted written comments because there have been
several of them. Moving on with our agenda, we are now in the period of additional public comments.
So this is another section set aside for the public to comment on items not on the agenda. And if you
commented at the first not on the agenda item, then you cannot comment on the second one. But if there's
any members of the public who would like to comment now on items not on the agenda, if you are in the
room, you can make your way to the podium. If you're online, you can go ahead and raise your hand
Using the reactions tab. I do see one person at the podium in chambers So I see that you signed in go
ahead and state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes Matthew Austin I just
want to talk about food fermentation. It is the best way to take care of your food waste and Garden
Quest has Free workshops at the Bloomington Community Orchard. The next one is November 4th from 1 to 230 and
Yeah, so please come join to learn how to be fully responsible for your food waste or turn into a soil
amendment and a liquid fertilizer And you can also check the Facebook page of the Bloomington Community
Orchard to see additional dates. Thank you Thank you for that announcement. Are there any other go ahead
and make your way to the to the podium and sign in and Then you can state your name for the record I've
already signed in my name you would you like me to do it again? Yes, please certain well
I don't know why that keeps on falling on the ground tonight. I think I think we need a better pen keeper
over there Thank you very much So my name is Sarah Jane Hughes and I would like despite the fiscal issue
to ask whether it would be possible to get on the streets Maxwell no
Street and on East Covenanter and the block near where I live the bumps the traffic bumps repainted
Because I noticed that the paint is very shallow in Intensity and so people could do their cars or their
bicycling in
Damage be thrown off if they hit it too hard and didn't realize it was there So if it needs to be on
an agenda for any moment I think this is a moment to to attend to it before the real bicycle season
starts again in the spring It'll give us a lot of opportunity to do something that would be really nice
for the many non-car Constituents in town. I love riding my bicycle. I don't get to do it very often
But I I applaud those who do like to ride bicycles. Thank you
And thank you for everything tonight Thank you I do want to state that council isn't really in control
of that schedule But I would encourage you to submit a you report and if you don't know what that is
talk to us after Yeah, thank you Are there any other? comments in chambers Has anyone raised a hand on zoom?
All right. Seeing no more public comment. That was around First Street and Covenanter. First Street
and Covenanter. Oh, and Maxwell. Well, it's all the ones that are through Covenanter though, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
So if there's no other public comment, we will move on to notes on council schedule So as already has
been mentioned our next regular session is on November 5th, and that is two weeks from tonight So we
do not have a meeting next week for it feels like the first Wednesday in a long time I've not had to
be in the seat
And I also want to highlight our next deliberation session on November 12th, which is kind of a follow-up
to the deliberation session that was in September about UDO changes and conversations with the planning
department. So council members, once again, there will be some amount of facilitation and small group
facilitation. So please be prepared for that and let me know as soon as possible if you're not able
to attend that meeting in person.
Are there any other notes on council schedule councilmember Piedmont Smith Piedmont Smith. Yes, the
Special Fiscal Committee of the council will meet tomorrow at 11 a.m. In the McCloskey room Thank you.
Any other notes on council schedule? Wonderful. We are adjourned