- Thank you. Now that we have a quorum, I'd like to go ahead and call this regular session of the Bloomington
- Common Council to order here on Wednesday, November 5th. Will the clerk please call the roll? Here.
- Council member Flaherty. Here. We can't hear you. I see. I see it here. Yes. Council member Ruff.
- Rallo here Piedmont Smith here Stossburg here Daly here Rosenberger Here and a sorry Thank you I Would like to
- So often I start out meetings with various note related to justice or something similar, historical
- information. This evening I would like to start with a moment of silence dedicated to Charlotte Zitlow
- and the many contributions she made to the Bloomington community. For those that don't know, Charlotte
- passed away this morning.
- There's no way that I can do justice to the many contributions that she made to this community or properly
- enunciate the legacy that she leaves behind. And I honestly didn't think that this was gonna choke me
- up as much as it just did simply reading that. So if all of you could please join me in a moment of
- silence and recognition of Charlotte.
- Thank you Seems a little wrong to carry on with business of the evening after that But it also seems
- like one of the tributes that we can give to Charlotte is to carry on with our civic responsibilities
- Which is what we're here to do this evening. So First up agenda summation for the evening. We do have
- one set of minutes for approval Then we will have a period of reports. We will start with council members and
- And then the mayor and city offices and I do not believe we have a report from the mayor and city offices
- this evening and then council committees. Also no report from council committees tonight and then we
- will have our first period of reports from the public during that period. That time is set aside for
- the public to comment on items that are not on our agenda this evening. So if there's anything not on
- the agenda that you would like to talk to us about if you're in chambers or if you're online that will
- be the first opportunity to do that. Public comment periods are three minutes.
- After reports appointments to boards and commissions of which there are none this evening then we'll
- have two pieces of legislation for first reading we will have ordinance 2025 41 to amend title 20 the
- unified development ordinance regarding the use table amendment single room occupancy.
- And then we will have ordinance 2025 45 to fix the salaries of all elected city officials for the city
- of Bloomington for 2026. Um, first readings, uh, we do not generally discuss first reading, so we will
- just introduce those items, but they will not be discussed by council. They will both be, um, discussed,
- uh, in two weeks at our next regular session. Following first readings, we will have legislation for
- second readings and resolutions.
- We will start with ordinance twenty twenty five forty two to amend title two of the Bloomington Municipal
- Code regarding the order of business at regular sessions of council. There is one amendment for that.
- Then we will have resolution 2025 18 to approve the naming of the stadium district around Miller Showers
- Park And there's also an amendment for that piece of this legislation and then we will wrap
- up our legislation this evening with ordinance 2025 32 amending title 20 unified development ordinance
- regarding the use table amendment urban agriculture commercial there was an amendment sent out in a
- packet addendum and
- And of course for those three pieces of legislation there will be public comment periods for each of
- them if anybody is interested in commenting on those items After the legislation we will have an additional
- period of public comment for other members wanting to comment on anything else not on the agenda You
- can comment at one of those two periods of public comment, but not both of them Any notes on council
- schedule and then we will adjourn So let's go ahead and rewind back to those minutes
- I move that the minutes from September 24th 2025 be approved. Thank you. We have a motion and a second
- to approve the minutes from September 24th. Are there any council member comments about those minutes
- or questions. OK seen as we have members online this evening all of our votes will need to be by roll
- call. And similarly we barely have a quorum in chambers so council members we will have to.
- Have a recess if any of us in chambers need to need to get up or anything So given that though, will
- the clerk please call the roll on the minutes from September 24th? Flaherty Yes, Ruff Yeah, Rollo. Yes,
- Piedmont Smith. Yes, Stasburg. Yes, Daley. Yes, Rosenberger Yeah, and a sorry Thanks. Wonderful.
- Thank you. Those minutes are approved. I
- We will move into reports from councilmembers. I'll start here in chambers on my right councilmember
- Rallo Yes, just to echo I Think our mutual sadness that Charlotte Zittler was passed My meeting with
- Charlotte was first meeting was in 1987. It was shortly after I moved to Bloomington and She was running
- for office. She was running for mayor then and
- The three giants of public service to me in Bloomington Are Tommy Alice and Frank McCloskey and charlotte's
- it low Tommy had a commitment to Bring everyone into the room to build coalitions before proceeding
- on policy Frank really established the modern infrastructure of Bloomington established boards
- and commissions the bus bus service parks
- And in Congress, I was proud that he voted against NAFTA back in 1994 under tremendous pressure and
- Charlotte of course did many things including every time I Passed the courthouse. I acknowledge Charlotte's
- contribution to save that she spearheaded that and we owe that preservation of that wonderful building
- to her and
- Which might have gone the way of a parking lot believe it or not had she not intervened So just to note
- that we we build We who serve build on their legacy and I always keep that in mind Thank you Thank you
- councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, thank you, I also want to speak briefly on the passing of dr. Charlotte's at low I
- My I first met her when in the 80s when my mom was hosting a fundraiser for the save the courthouse
- campaign and of course Charlotte was spearheading that campaign so she was there. I was a preteen or
- teenager and and met the great Charles at low and even then I was like in awe.
- And then in 2007 when I decided to run for office, I of course met with Charlotte and met with her several
- times since then. And she was always very generous with her time and sharing her insights and her long
- experience in local politics and what the issues were and how they came about. And it was really invaluable
- advice that she gave and I valued her friendship very, very highly.
- She will definitely be missed. She was somebody who punched open that glass ceiling for women in this
- community to serve in office. And she paid that forward by her role in the Democratic Women's Caucus
- and by mentoring countless women since the 1980s, even before.
- So we will we are very fortunate that that she made Bloomington her home and she dedicated herself to
- public service and not just elected office but also with Planned Parenthood and other volunteer boards
- that she served on. Secondly I do want to address the ending of snap benefits that are hitting people
- in our community very hard.
- And as of November 1st, they have been suspended. So that's what's commonly known as food stamps. There
- are many resources in the community. Hoosier Hills Food Bank has a list of them on their website. And
- I wanted to share, if I could, if the staff could share a flyer that I received from one of my constituents
- a couple of days ago. They started specifically a mutual aid group for people in Monroe County who have
- lost SNAP benefits.
- And this is a new mutual aid network. It's not something that you may have heard of before. It's specifically
- for this period in our history where the SNAP benefits have ended for now. And if you can't read that,
- the URL or the website is bit.ly forward slash
- Can I read it myself? Snap mutual aid form. Snap mutual aid form. So there, if you need aid, you can
- go there and sign up. If you are willing to give aid, you can go there and volunteer. And they will
- be in touch with you. So they're seeking donations of food or money. And also, they are posting all donations
- version of the form on a public site so you can see that your money is going to go to help a specific
- person. You don't have to use your real name if you want to just say you know my name is Brenda and
- I need to make up for two hundred dollars each week then or each month then that's what you would put
- in there and then people who want to contribute can say I can contribute
- Hundred dollars a month or whatever and then you can be matched up. So it's a very grassroots effort
- And this also will be it already is on the City Council packet. There was a small Typographical correction
- that will be Available tomorrow. So again, it's bit.ly forward slash snap mutual aid form and
- And the final thing I wanted to announce, my monthly constituent meeting is this Saturday at 11 a.m.
- It will be on Zoom only, and the link is available through the City Council website. Thank you.
- Thank you. Let's go down to the other end with Councilmember Asari. Thank you. Well, certainly, as all
- of my colleagues have said already, we could spend the rest of the evening just acknowledging all of
- the incredible things that Charlotte Zitlow
- Did and contributed to this community and I think just to echo what councilmember Rallo and councilmembers
- Piedmont Smith said I think her legacy is all around us and the very institution that we're sitting
- in and All of us get to serve because she broke so many barriers and and the but the one thing that
- I'll say to add to this is
- to me her example, even until the very end, I mean, it's so symbolic that just a few days ago she was,
- I mean, a week ago essentially was just arguing for justice in the community, a center that was
- named after her, still bearing her name, still working to that very end. She always had a list of things
- that needed to be done in the community. And when you would bring up problems or issues or things that
- you cared about, she'd say, well, add it to my list. And Charlotte could get anything done here. But
- really focused on the fact that public service was not about centering ourselves, but about the people
- that we serve. And I really hope that we all continue to honor her by continuing this work.
- Thank you.
- and I'm just so grateful to have known her. In terms of just quick updates, the first one is that this
- week, Bloomington is celebrating Innovation Week at the Mill and throughout the Trades District. This
- is a showcase of the creativity, entrepreneurship, and collaboration that define our city's innovation
- ecosystem. Tomorrow is AI Day, and so if you have a chance to go, tickets are free, there's food, but
- a great opportunity to connect with speakers, demonstrations,
- exploring how artificial intelligence is transforming health, security, public service, et cetera. My
- colleague David Crandall is going to be speaking. And then there's going to be some lightning talks
- and panels featuring innovators across the ecosystem. And then on Friday, we're going to conclude with
- Arts and Community Day. It's going to be highlighting the creative energy that fuels innovation.
- Ben Swanson, the co-founder of Secretly Group, is going to be giving the keynote. And there's going
- to be a culminating block party
- I was really enjoyed participating in today's events and was on a panel on GovTech, and we can talk
- about a lot of those things in the weeks ahead. And then this last week, Councilmember
- What's your last name? Daley. Councilmember Daley and I went to the Commission on the Status of Hispanic
- and Latina Affairs. We talked about a variety of things, but one of the things that they've reached
- out to counsel about, and so I'd love to get all of your support on, is that with the ending of the,
- and I'm sorry, I have aphasia, but the, what's the program called? The holiday gift assistance program.
- program. They found a bunch of community organizations that are willing to take that over from the city.
- I think which is fantastic. But councilmember Daly and I have agreed to also help out and spread the
- word. Hope that many of the rest of you would join in both with sort of organizing, bringing people
- to it, connecting people, et cetera. Then very briefly in the packet amendment addendum,
- There was a letter that I've drafted to the mayor requesting an additional appropriation should the
- government continue to be closed and should SNAP benefits still be suspended or not funded, asking for
- the mayor to introduce an additional appropriation. And I've suggested that that could come from Jack
- Hopkins. I think it could come from other places as well. But just sort of noting that we're welcome
- to another appropriation.
- or to add this appropriation to the end of your appropriation. So if anybody wants to sign that, we
- don't have to vote, or if you want to discuss it, happy to. But if you want to sign that, please join
- at the end. We can just let me know. So we add your names to that. And again, signing does not mean
- that we are approving anything. It's not a legislative action, just as sort of saying our openness to
- receive such an appropriation. I think that's everything for me.
- Great. Thank you. Councilmember daily. Thank you. I've been trying to think all afternoon what I was
- going to say about the passing of Charlotte Zitlow. Clearly though I realized I'm not up to it tonight.
- I'm not going to be able to make any statements. So for that I apologize. I will definitely be sharing
- a statement later. She was a hero but I'm not going to make everybody cry.
- I will share that later when I am a little more emotionally stable too. So thank you for your patience
- with that. But I do want to address a letter that I included in the packet. In the packet, second packet
- addendum that went out today, I included a updated and revised letter to try to address some of the
- concerns that my colleagues had expressed about the letter. So for anybody who has not read the packet,
- it is expressing
- Just what our community can do to come together in a coordinated effort to try to help cover the loss
- of these snap benefits for our over 5,000 community members, I believe it is, who will be affected by
- this. I feel that it's incumbent upon us as city leaders to respond to this situation. That's why I
- wrote the letter. My goal was to point community members toward not just helping our neighbors in need,
- but to do so in a manner that's most effectively addressing the most
- most pressing issues of food for our local assistance networks. I'm very well aware that this letter
- is not going to solve any hunger issues. There's nothing that I or any of us could say or write that
- would on our own, but instead
- This letter was meant to be really a catalytic to jumpstart a response that is most helpful and effective
- in getting food to our neighbors who are currently going without our names and our shared message can
- direct hundreds of residents toward concrete ways to help and can signal to local partners that city
- leadership recognizes and values their work. Many Bloomington families are directly impacted by this and
- To be sure, Bloomington is a city with a really huge heart. We're surrounded by people who truly and
- deeply care and want to help. However, even with the best of intentions, sometimes what we offer to
- help isn't actually what the others really need most. So in order to be most productive,
- I see this as a platform to amplify various ways in which people who want to help can be most impactful.
- Also in the addendum today, I did include the Hoosier Hills Food Bank pamphlet where they listed many,
- many resources for our community members who have lost their SNAP benefits and who are in danger of
- going hungry. So I really hope that they will take advantage of that mutual aid resource that Council
- Member Piedmont-Smith shared and also refer to that pamphlet.
- Um, so this letter is addressed to our fellow residents. Um, it is from me. I invite any other council
- member who is interested in adding their name to it to help amplify this message to please, uh,
- join in. I'll reach out later. We don't have to have this discussion tonight, but I will reach out and
- ask if anybody is interested in sharing that and then I will be sharing that letter more widely with
- the community.
- To get that messaging out there and then finally this Sunday councilmember Asare and Monroe
- County Commissioner Madeira and I will be hosting a community conversation on food insecurity so this will be.
- at the Monroe County Public Library the downtown branch at one o'clock on Sunday. We already have several
- of our food assistance networks committed to joining a panel you know to have a conversation so they
- can share with members of the community what they most need which
- Spoiler alert, it's repeatable and sustainable support and donations, but we can have a deeper conversation
- about that and I have invitations out to several others. If anybody out there is interested in joining,
- please swing by or if you are a representative for one of these food assistance networks or are committed
- to food security, please reach out to me and I'd be more than happy to have you as a guest. And I think
- that was everything, thank you.
- Thank you. Let's go ahead and go online. Council Member Flaherty. Thank you. First, I want to share
- in my colleagues' remarks condolences to Charlotte Zitlow's family, friends, admirers on her passing
- and share the remarks of just her incredible legacy in Bloomington. I have not had the decades of direct
- engagement with her, some of my colleagues did, but of course, interacted with her regularly throughout
- my almost six years of service now.
- in the city council. And I think two things that strike me by way of remembrance are one, that not just
- during the years of her formal government service, but in many ways through the entirety of the rest
- of her life, she stayed very strongly engaged in serving the Bloomington community in all sorts of ways.
- And I think that's a real legacy to remember. And second is
- The conversations we had that I especially remember and enjoyed most were ones where she had such an
- independence of thought in my experience. I never knew quite how she was going to view something or
- feel about something. And it surprised me sometimes. Oftentimes, I agreed with her. Sometimes,
- we did not. But I always felt we had really productive and interesting conversations about it. And I
- just appreciated. I remember in particular, there was a vote where I was the only dissenting council
- member on a thing. And she had the same opinion of me and singled me out at a party event. And we talked about it.
- So yeah, I just, that's something that struck me about her. And I think that's a really important example
- by which we should, you know, that we should remember in our service as well. And then additionally,
- I just wanted to thank council members Asari and Daly for their work to, and Piedmont Smith for elevating
- in various ways the challenges facing our community in
- the context of SNAP benefits going away or being unavailable for a period of time. I know there's still
- some uncertainty around elements of that. I'll bring into it also LIHEAP benefits, the Low Income Home
- Energy Assistance Project, which was already under attack and a very similar dynamic of energy and security.
- In fact, the things are interactive, sometimes tragically referred to as a heat or eat dynamic. So all
- of this is so important and important to keep eyes on
- the supports that are important in our community that are voting both during the shutdown and outside
- of it, the federal government and find ways to fill gaps where we can. So yeah, thank you again to my
- colleagues for elevating those things and their efforts. Thank you. I'm gonna go ahead and extend council
- member report time until I'll say six,
- I'll say 705 to start with just to make sure that everybody has a chance to give full reports as they
- would like Councilmember Rosenberger Hi, thanks briefly for me today. I do want to echo what everyone
- has said and just add Charlotte and add in one fun story. I always loved of her When I met her she lived in
- just east of campus and was driving. And then through the years, she stopped driving and moved to the
- Kirkwood on Sixth Street. Her apartment overlooked the beeline in Sixth Street. And I was visiting her
- one day and she just talked about how much she felt like she lived in Europe now, like a little town
- where she could walk everywhere. And I thought that was super cute. She mentioned the Irish lion, but
- I think that it felt like Italy.
- which is fine, it's just we don't have an Italian restaurant right there. So I love her for that. Pivoting,
- I just wanted to give an update on the house for sale in Prospect Hill for $559,000. This is the 601
- West 4th Street that was a triplex converted to a two bed, two bath, single family home. It's been on
- the market.
- just about a month, 35 days, and it went under contract almost immediately. So it looks like people
- are buying houses that cost that much in walkable areas too. All right, thank you so much. Thank you,
- Council Member Ruff. Thank you, no report tonight, thank you. Okay, thank you.
- I want to thank my colleagues for all of their stories about Charlotte. I obviously didn't feel up to
- really talking about it much tonight, but I really appreciate that some of my colleagues did. So thank
- you all for that.
- I also want to announce my constituent meeting on Saturday, November 15th. And on my calendar, what
- I'm announcing right now is a little different than what's on the calendar. So what I'm announcing right
- now is right. And then I'm going to fix the calendar. I'm going to do it at 1130 via Zoom. So 1130 via
- Zoom on Saturday, November 15th. That just kind of works a little bit better for my schedule and also
- the Zoom link schedule.
- And then I also, both for the public and for my colleagues, want to talk about our deliberation session
- a little bit next week. I know I could talk about that during council schedule time, but sometimes it
- feels like by that time in the meeting, everybody just wants to go home and doesn't listen.
- So next week, we will have a deliberation session of council. And so that's going to be the second of
- our community conversations, basically, about housing. So the first one in September, we talked about
- housing needs and experiences. This one's going to be a little bit different.
- Here's some information from the planning department about the.
- the conversations that they've had and the information that they've received from the community, kind
- of like trends about different things. And then our small group conversations are gonna, the main difference
- is that not every group is going to talk about the same exact things. There are going to be different
- groups exploring different lines of inquiry. And so more information will go out in the packet this
- Friday about those specific inquiries. There's also a press release that kind of talks about it a little
- bit if people are interested. But so for community members,
- 630 here in council chambers there will be of course a zoom option a virtual option and like last time
- I'm trying to figure out some way for Virtual participation, but there won't be a virtual conversation
- option for colleagues I sent you an email with this information because as members of the public you
- will of course
- have preferences about which line of inquiry you want to have a conversation about so you get to choose
- your groups and as council members you also get to choose the groups that you facilitate but only if
- you let me know what your choices are otherwise I will just tell you what you're doing so if you have
- Preferences, please respond to that email as soon as you can and thank you to the colleagues who have
- already responded to that and then the last thing about that I Discovered on Sunday that I have a little
- bit of a scheduling complication with next Wednesday. So I I May or may not end up being here for the
- whole meeting I might only be here for the beginning or I might only be here for the end and I haven't
- quite figured that out yet. So Yeah, that is my report
- for this evening. And we only went a couple minutes over our report time of 20 minutes.
- Go us no reports from the mayor and city offices tonight No reports from council committees tonight,
- which means that we've moved into our first period of reports from the public So if any members of the
- public have a comment that they want to make on an item not on the agenda Now is your first opportunity
- to do that again? That's for things not on the agenda If you're in chambers, you can go ahead and make
- your way to the podium and then you'll have three minutes if you're online You can go ahead and raise
- your hand using the reactions tab
- Or you can send a chat message to the host and I see somebody standing up in chambers So if you want
- to come up, there should be a sign-in sheet there so that you can sign in please state your name for
- the record and Staff we have our timer all sets. So the timer will start when you start talking Make
- sure to speak into the microphone perfect. Thank you better. Yes, I'll start over I
- Good evening. Good? Good evening. My name is Claudia Brink and I have been a proud resident of Bloomington
- for many years. I've come to tonight's meeting to share with you my and my neighbor's concerns about
- the real and very present dangers that are affecting the safety, security and quiet enjoyment of our
- neighborhoods. And no, I'm not referring to people's worries about how smaller houses, duplexes and
- triplexes could impact their property values.
- We are very concerned about how the existing 800 plus short-term rentals are destabilizing our neighborhoods.
- Likely, you already know that all anyone has to do to put their property on a short-term rental platform
- is fill out an online form and upload some photos. That's all they have to do. And if you want to rent
- a short-term rental, just fill out a form and upload your credit card information.
- Currently in Bloomington, short-term rentals are completely exempt from any type of regulation. Short-term
- rentals are not inspected to ensure they are safe for habitation, and owners of STRs do not have to
- prove that they have sufficient insurance to cover catastrophic events that could occur at their property.
- Also, there is no information available about short-term rental guests, be they normal folks or criminals
- or registered sex offenders.
- One short-term rental on the east side that I'm very familiar with lists the occupancy as 15 with four
- bedrooms. There's a 200 square foot front deck and a 200 square foot back deck. On weekends when there
- are big events in town, there could be 15 cars there with four cars in the driveway and 11 cars parked
- on both sides of the road. And on those weekends when there is a home football game, well, you can imagine
- what that house looks like and the
- and the guests after they've been tailgating for hours before the game and drinking beer during the
- game, the guests next door probably aren't sober enough to drive safely through the neighborhood, much
- less keep the noise down on those decks late at night. We are asking you to consider the establishment
- of a short-term rental permit process as laid out in the Indiana Code of 2024, requiring short-term
- rental owners to apply for a permit with a maximum of
- $150 one-time fee would provide neighbors potential property owners public safety personnel Insurers
- and mortgage lenders with the information they need to take actions to protect personal safety Property
- values and their business interests. We thank you for giving our request your serious consideration
- Thank you So anybody else in chambers who would like to make a comment wonderful. I see a couple other
- people moving Do we have any hands raised on zoom?
- Let's go ahead to the next gentleman here in chambers. I see you signing in Thank you very much state
- your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes I'll try to remember to bring the
- microphone down after I'm done Leave it up a lot. I'm sorry My name is Steve Olin and I come to also
- speak in tribute of the late Charlotte Zitlow who I was proud to call a friend She wrote two books it's
- it's it's I think
- maybe not ironic, but appropriate that the news of her passing came today because she was part of perhaps
- the greatest wave election in city history, the election of 1971 that swept her and eight new council
- members to office. Only one council member that was on the council survived the election of 1971 to
- continue serving.
- There was also a new mayor that year too, so if you think you all had it difficult with as many people
- turned over in this last election, that was quite a year. Which she wrote about in the book 1971,
- How We Won, which I was privileged to help her edit. But her other book, Minister's Daughter, talks
- about her life in total, including coming from
- Wisconsin and settling in Bloomington but she served one term on the City Council's very momentous term
- in the early 70s and two terms as County Commissioner and Was devoted utterly to the city and the county
- that we all call home and so I just wanted to add
- My words of tribute to a great woman who was also the very first female president of the City Council
- in Immediately upon taking office. No one else wanted to do the job and she had led the way so I hope
- that this majority female council appreciates the the path broken by the one who came before Thank you Thank you
- It's like, yeah, you didn't lower the mic there, tall man. Thank you, let's keep on going here at Chambers.
- Maybe I should use the lower one. Please, I see you signing in. Thank you so much, and state your name
- for the record, and then you'll have up to three minutes. I'm Sarah Jane Hughes, and you've seen me
- before, but I was motivated because I saw Vice President's shirt for the community kitchen.
- And I'm speaking on their behalf. They need a lot of donations to help make everybody through the holidays
- and otherwise. And one of my faculty colleagues sent out a note about money donations needed for SNAP
- and Head Start where there's no money. And I understand in Indiana, even the money that will be available
- is not likely to come for the next maybe week or more.
- So if you have a few extra pennies in your pocket, this is the time to make a donation. Hoosier Action
- is taking donations for both purposes. The Community Kitchen is taking donations, particularly
- for Thanksgiving, but I'm sure they need everything you can possibly do.
- And my husband and I happen to be supporters of many of the food insecurity groups in the area. And
- we urge everyone who can to be extra generous right now, given how grave the issues are, particularly
- for children. I understand they didn't have school yesterday, which means they didn't have school lunch
- yesterday. So thank you for your time. And thank you, Vice President Piedmont-Smith, because I would
- never have remembered to do this without you.
- Thank you. Are there any other members and chambers who would like to make a comment. Anybody raise
- their hand on zoom. OK. Let's carry on with our agenda then for this evening. So reminder there will
- be another period of general public comment toward the end of the meeting if anybody thinks of anything
- in the meantime with no appointments to boards and commissions were on to legislation for first readings.
- Yes councilmember Flaherty I'm sorry. I actually did have not an appointment but a other board and Commission
- related item to make a motion on if that's acceptable Was there anything in the packet about it there
- was not but it's not an appointment Okay, I guess let's hear it Thank you so as you all know when a
- member of a commission stops attending or misses three meetings in a row I
- There was a process for removal. The way we've done this most over the last couple of years is to have
- a formal process to give notice of a pending removal. And then if there are not some sort of explanatory
- circumstances that we would find justified in not making a removal, then we move on to removal subsequently.
- So it takes a motion essentially by convention at least to move formally into that process. And I wanted
- to make a motion to that effect.
- for a member of the commission on Hispanic and Latina affairs. Council member, council appointed member
- Jose Puentes, who's missed three meetings in a row and has not been responding to emails and calls about
- it. So normally we have the chair of the interview committees do that, but I believe council members
- you look is not an attendance tonight. So I wanted to make that motion essentially on the interview
- committee sees behalf. And so let me actually do that and make a motion.
- I move we initiate the process for removal for failure to attend three consecutive meetings for Commissioner
- Jose Fuentes member of the Commission on Hispanic and Latina affairs Second Okay, thank you Clerk McDowell,
- did you get that whole motion? Great Does anybody have any questions about this motion council members?
- Councilmember Allah Councilmember Flaherty and I serve on on team see which points for that commission
- Councilmember Flaherty we were going to have Deputy mayor Crossley Look into to make make a one last
- attempt to contact the individual is was that not successful. Do you know any anything about them? Yeah,
- that's right following our last interview committee meeting where we discussed that at
- Claire crossly did follow up and Sent us an email two days ago noting that they've missed the third
- meeting and been unable to make contact. Okay. Thank you Thank you other questions I Have the question
- this doesn't actually remove them this initiates the process for removal and then if it's like a letter,
- right? And then if they don't respond then we'll have to remove at a subsequent meeting. Is that correct?
- That's right, that's the process we've been using for a few years now
- Thank you. I just wanted to we don't have to do it very often. So I wanted to clarify. Yep. Good brain
- any other Okay, let's go ahead and do a roll call vote then on that Motion to initiate the process for
- removal of Jose Fuentes from the Commission of Hispanic and Latina affairs. Yes, I didn't catch the
- seconder of the motion Did anyone sign both of these two seconded? I'm not sure which one can claim it first
- Okay, count count councilmember. Sorry seconded. It's very important Okay councilmember ruff Yes Rollo,
- yes Piedmont Smith. Yes, Stossburg. Yes, daily. Yes Rosenberger Yes, sorry, yes and Flaherty Yes, thank
- you Great. Thank you so much
- Are you ready to move past appointments to boards and commissions? I Think we are and then on to legislation
- for first readings I Move that ordinance 2025 dash 41 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and
- synopsis only It's been moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025 41 Will the clerk please call
- the roll on that motion comes member Rallo Yes, Piedmont Smith. Yes
- Stossburg. Yes daily. Yes Rosenberger Yeah, sorry. Yes and rough. Yes. Thank you Yeah, thank you. Oh
- Sorry councilmember Flaherty I put oh my goodness. Thank you. Will the clerk please read ordinance 2025-41
- to amend title 20 the unified development ordinance of the Bloomington Municipal Code
- regarding use table amendment, single room occupancy. The synopsis is this amendment modifies table
- 03-1, allowed use table, use specific standards, as well as several definitions within the
- unified development ordinance to allow for the use single room occupancy as directed through council
- resolution 2024-25. This ordinance is in accordance with Indiana code 36-7-4
- Thank you, I Move that ordinance 2025-45 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only
- Thank you, it's been moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025-45 will the clerk please call the
- roll on that motion councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, Stossburg. Yes, Ailey. Yes, Rosenberger
- Sorry. Yes Flaherty Yes, rough. Yes and Rallo. Yes Thank you. Will the clerk please read? Yes Ordinance
- 2025-45 to fix the salaries of all elected city officials for the city of Bloomington for the year 2026
- The synopsis is this ordinance sets the maximum 2026 salary rate for all elected city officials for
- the city of Bloomington. I
- Thank you. We will hear those two pieces of legislation two weeks from tonight at our next regular session.
- Moving on to second readings and resolutions. I move that appropriation ordinance. That's that's not
- right. I move that ordinance. I'm sorry that was left over the appropriation and that ordinance 2025
- dash 42 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only.
- Thank you. It's been moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025 42. The clerk please call the roll
- on that motion. Yes. Council member Stossberg. Yes. Daily. Yes. Rosenberger. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Flaherty.
- Yes. Ruff. Yes. Rollo. Yes. And Piedmont Smith. Yes. Thank you. Will the clerk please read.
- Ordinance 2025 dash 42 to amend title 2 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled administration and
- personnel regarding amending Bloomington Municipal Code 2.0 4.3 8 0 the order of business at regular
- sessions and
- And the synopsis is this ordinance men's BMC two point oh four point three eight. Oh to update the council's
- regular session agenda expanding subsection for be to include the mayor city clerk city offices city
- boards and commissions and city partnership entities in reports. Thank you. I move that ordinance twenty
- twenty five dash forty to be adopted.
- second Thank you so much councilmember Piedmont Smith, I believe that this is For you to present tonight.
- Is that sure it's pretty straightforward So for those of you who might not know our agenda is Set in
- code it is actually in our laws that we do things step by step by step each meeting. That's why I
- when our council president reads the agenda, sometimes she'll say appointments to boards and commissions,
- but we have none. Well, she has to say that because it has to be on the agenda because that's how it's
- set. But anyway, I digress. So this basically just changes the one line in our code under the heading
- of reports on our agenda. So we have reports first from council members, then from the mayor, city clerk,
- No from the mayor and city offices then from council committees and then from the public. Well that
- second one the reports from the mayor and city offices we have routinely asked for reports from resident
- boards and commissions during that time as well. It doesn't say that it's part of our agenda but that's
- how we've used that. And sometimes we have a report from the city clerk's office and that's not explicitly
- mentioned here either.
- This is just really amending that little part of our agenda in code to say yes We want to hear from
- the mayor the city clerk city offices and or city boards and commissions So that's it And I have an
- amendment Why don't we go ahead and do the amendment first because the amendment has to do with the
- synopsis as opposed to the content does that
- Work for you. Sure. Do you want to introduce that amendment then or so I want to move amendment one
- to ordinance twenty twenty five dash forty two. Thank you. Do you want to talk about the amendment now
- too. So this is just there was just a mistake in the synopsis which said that we would also hear from
- city partnership entities but we don't
- want to include that oh by the way I forgot to mention this did come through the committee on council
- processes it's not just me bringing this it's that committee so it's just deleting from the synopsis
- the words and city partnership entities and then it's adding an attachment which is the red line of
- that part of our code so just kind of an unnecessary attachment but it's just to be super clear
- What we are deleting what we're adding. That's it. Great. Thank you. Let's go ahead and since we have
- a motion regarding Amendment 1 on the table does anybody have any questions about Amendment 1. OK.
- Procedurally we go to the members of the public at this point. So if any members of the public would
- like to specifically comment on amendment one to ordinance 2025 42 This is the time to do that.
- Once again, this is specifically about the amendment that Improves some accuracy and intention of The
- legislation I don't see anybody moving in chambers. Is there anybody online who's raised a hand? I
- Okay, great. Then we'll bring it back to council members any council members want to make a comment
- about amendment one to ordinance 2025 42 All right, I don't see anybody for that so clerk McDowell if
- you could call the roll on amendment one to 2025 42, that would be great councilmember daily Yes Rosenberger
- Yeah, sorry, yes clarity I
- Yes. Ruff. Yes. Rollo. Yes. Piedmont Smith. Yes. And Stossberg. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. So that passes
- unanimously eight zero on the amendment. And so now we'll go back to ordinance twenty twenty five forty
- two as amended. Do council members have any questions or comments about this for a council member Piedmont Smith.
- Council member sorry just a super quick one and maybe this is more for our legal counsel but why do
- we need to have our meeting agenda in code. I don't think that it's necessary for whatever reason that
- was added to the Bloomington municipal code. Other questions.
- Okay, seeing no other questions from council members will again go to the public and this time If you're
- a member of the public who's interested in commenting on this ordinance at all That would be ordinance
- 2025 42 as amended if you want to come to the podium and chambers Or if you want to raise your hand
- on zoom, I don't see anybody jumping up in chambers. Is there anybody online who has raised a hand? Okay
- Then I think that we'll revert back to council again for councilmember comment on ordinance 2025 42
- as amended Councilmember sorry, I think that we don't need to just because it would be a waste of time
- But we should just remove this entire section now of code There's no reason for us to be codifying things
- that don't need to be codified Okay, councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, um I
- Agree that title to which the section about The Common Council and how it should be run and what the
- agendas are and all that is actually being reviewed by Council staff and I know that councilmember Osari
- has done a thorough review as well and we are working on extracting a lot of text from that and putting
- it in a administrative manual
- Because it does not as council member sorry said doesn't and as our legal counsel said as well it does
- not need to be in here and it just makes it more cumbersome to change things if we want to adjust and
- improve how we do business. So that process is underway slowly but surely. Thank you. Are there other
- council member comments.
- Great, then I think that we're ready for the clerk to call the roll on ordinance 2025 42 as amended
- councilmember Rosenberger Yes, sorry, I'm sorry, yes Flaherty Yes, Ruff Yes, Rallo. Yes Piedmont Smith.
- Yes Stasburg. Yes and daily. Yes Great. Thank you that
- Ordinance passes 8-0 I move that resolution 2025 18 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and
- synopsis only Second, thank you. It's been moved and seconded to introduce resolution 2025 18. Will
- the clerk please call the roll on that? Council members, sorry Yes Flaherty
- Yes. Ruff? Yes. Rallo? Yes. Piedmont-Smith? Yes. Stossberg? Yes. Daly? Yes. Sorry. Yes. I lost track
- of whether the clerk called everybody's name because of. We did. Did you get it? Oh, I didn't get called.
- I'm a yes. I think you did.
- I should have been last. I don't know. Council member Rosenbarger. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much.
- Will the clerk please read. Resolution 2025-18 to approve the naming of the stadium district in the
- area surrounding Miller Showers Park. The synopsis is this resolution co-sponsored by council member
- Stossberg names the area around Miller Showers Park as the stadium district.
- This naming will foster community pride promote economic growth and enhance tourism in the area Thank
- you Resolution 2025 18 be adopted second Thank you. And since I'm cosponsoring I'm handing the gavel
- over to my vice president councilmember Piedmont Smith All right, who is here to give us a brief? rundown
- we have heard this before and I see a
- Director Jane Cooper Smith from economic sustainable development here, but President Stossburg, would
- you like to start the presentation? Yeah, I would actually like to move amendment one to resolution
- 2025. I lost track of my thing 18. Thank you. One has been moved and seconded. Yep. So members member
- Stossburg, go ahead. Thank you. So amendment one is a new map.
- for this area, it was distributed in the packet and then in the packet addendum earlier this week, kind
- of a more parcel by parcel map was put out so that you could really see where the lot lines were. So
- in the new map, the, I'm finding, I'm sorry, I'm doing like two things right now, or four maybe.
- There were some concerns that there had been, so if this naming initiative is generally a commercial,
- a benefit for commercial operations within this area, and our original map had kind of been to some
- degree based on zoning districts, and not just what currently existed, but also what could exist in
- those areas based on what the current zoning is,
- though currently in some of those areas it was generally residential and so the residents in those areas
- did not want to be included in this initiative that was generally a commercial type initiative. So we
- condensed the map. So the current map, if you look at the lot line one, it generally extends one property
- Lot line off of the major kind of thoroughfare. So one lot line to the west of college and one lot to
- the east of walnut there's Maybe a couple exceptions for actually I think that for walnut. There's just
- one exception where there's
- Technically two lots but it's like one property. So it's if you actually like look at that property
- It is like owned by the same those two lots are owned by the same person and the structures on those
- are the same thing I'm sorry to interrupt but could staff project that new map, please. Okay. Thank
- you I think it's also part of the presentation that director Cooper Smith is going to do and
- And then along 17th Street, we also trim that back to generally one lot. But once again, there's a few
- examples there where there are technically two lots, but they are owned by the same person and or have
- the same structure on them. And sometimes, the best example is honestly on the corner of
- I think it's actually where Madison turns to Kinzer and 17th and the dry cleaner is actually on the
- lot line. Their roof is cut in half. Technically that dry cleaner is on two lot lines if you look at
- it on the elevate map, which I think is really interesting. But it's obviously one building. So those
- are the kinds of places that we had two lots because they were owned by the same person and or had the
- same structure or type of structure in those two lots. So that is how we trimmed down the map
- both to reflect the community members, the residents in those areas who had some concerns and also to
- kind of more accurately in some ways represent that this is about commercial businesses that might exist
- there and so it captures the
- Currently existing businesses and doesn't necessarily capture as much of the possibility for new businesses
- in the future So that is the amendment and I think that staff probably I don't know if staff wants to
- do their presentation around the amendment now as well Okay, and do you have the slide deck? So director
- Kipper Smith your presentation is also about the amendment It includes information on the changes to the map
- Yes, so because you're standing on the table is the amendment. So okay, just trying to clarify. Okay,
- I Will leave anything that is not just exclusively about the amendment out of my present. It's okay
- If it's all wrapped together, I mean, I don't need you to To do it to do surgery on it. Go ahead I'll
- do my best Jane Cooper Smith director of economic and sustainable development and as we just established
- I'm here to talk about the amendment to
- Resolution 2518 as councilmember Stossberg mentioned we've had a lot of community Feedback on this map
- and just to be real transparent about where we are I think the map is a lot stronger for that feedback
- and Even though councilmember Stossberg and I had been working on this for a while. I'm thinking about
- it in a specific, you know a particular way I think it's
- better and more accurately reflects the purpose of the proposed district which is to serve as a marketing
- tool for these businesses as Councilmember Sossberg mentioned I'm sorry there was oh I do have the slide
- deck. Okay, thanks So I shouldn't go over what we discussed last time just to be clear Sorry No You
- can go ahead. Okay, I don't mean to make it down for you. No, no, I just want to do it correctly and
- So we communicated with Maple Hearts Heights and Garden Hill neighborhood associations via their directors.
- We it was discussed at the Economic Development Commission meeting. We met with planning and engineering
- departments internally. So we had general feedback in the initial round. But we were we asked I asked
- more targeted questions that I think helped us push the map in a better direction.
- And then as council member Stossberg mentioned we removed the areas of Garden Hill south of 17th Street.
- We removed the areas of Maple Heights just the majority of it but the area immediately west of college
- and immediately south of 17th is also Maple Heights. And those are I had my map up their mixed use darn
- it these passwords.
- I think it's medium scale. I think it's mixed use medium scale. Yeah. Yes. OK. The purpose the why is
- just to strengthen the identity of this district. We have an area that serves as a gateway to Bloomington
- and welcome at a front porch. You can use a number of metaphors for it but it is what serves as the
- point of entry to you know people who live here and are coming home.
- people who work in Bloomington every day, the millions of visitors that we welcome to Bloomington every
- year, and giving this district an identity really solidifies it so that the businesses have something
- that they can use to market to all of these users of the district, but specifically to the millions
- of visitors every year who are visiting for the purposes of attending sporting events.
- It's a low-cost high-impact tool and then I just want to go back to the what it does and what it doesn't
- do The resolution establishes the name it establishes the geographic area for which we've proposed an
- amendment Based on public feedback. It empowers the promoting of this district. It does not establish
- an economic development incentive and
- It does not establish a riverfront district. It does not have a planning component. It does not require
- participation and it doesn't commit any funding specifically for this district. It is just giving it
- a name so that people can can use it. And I think I just restated the timeline here and I think that's
- it for now.
- Sorry, I'm a little thrown just trying to figure out what I was actually supposed to focus on but I'm
- happy to take any of your questions Thank You director Cooper Smith and councilmember Stossberg are
- there questions from council members about the amendment Yes councilmember Daley, thank you very much
- Thank you for that explanation. You did a great job with the surgery
- I just have a question and it's Might be easier since you're sitting next to me There's the the weird
- little on the bottom of the screen likes by 17th and was that Madison little jet-out Section why was
- why was that area included that doesn't seem like it would be anything that really was yeah so pertinent
- to something, you know in a stadium district and
- It just makes such a strange shape. Just north of Maple Heights, along 17. So that's the area between
- I'm just gonna call it Kinzer, you know, I love how Bloomington streets change names somewhere in the
- middle But I'm just gonna call it Kinzer for ease and I think that that's Jackson So on either side
- of 17th Street there there are businesses and it's one of those things like when we were thinking about
- it it's like who do we include and who do we exclude and where do we draw the line and I can tell you
- so there is if you're thinking about the south side of the street there
- I'm not going to be able to name all of them, but there is a gas station. And then there is a restaurant.
- It's a barbecue place. And then I can't remember what's on the corner. And so there's actually business
- there. And then on the north side, there's an auto parts store. And then there's, I think it's like
- a little. The lawnmower and tool repair place. Yeah. So there's actually some commercial businesses
- there. And so it felt kind of like, if we're going to bring it up
- Like, how can we exclude, like, what are we gonna exclude at that point? And so that was why I thought
- to include that part was specifically to make sure that, you know, and if you think about it, it's like,
- well, if you're down there at Miller Showers Park, it's like a two block walk if you wanna go up there
- and frequent that restaurant, or, you know, that is a fueling station option for people going out of
- town that is not actually that out of the way, and so I,
- I just felt like it was, that they should be included in terms of those kind of adjacent businesses.
- Honestly, in a similar way as you go like, well, we also kind of jetted out to include the Kroger and
- that strip that has Avers Pizza on a subway and like something else over there in that Kroger parking
- lot in a similar sort of way.
- So that was my reasoning for wanting to keep that section. I think it helps to imagine that you're a
- visitor or someone who's using a GIS tool to navigate your way around. You put you search for something
- in your phone and you want to know which Kroger to go to what gas stations are near me. So if you're
- in the stadium district and these businesses if they elect to use this name then that's going to help
- them identify them.
- themselves to those potential customers Thank you, uh-huh. Thanks. Hopey other questions from council
- members about the amendment Okay seeing none we'll go to members of the public to comment on the amendment
- which is a revised map for the proposed stadium district does any member of the public want to make
- a comment please come to the
- Microphone and clearly write your name and then state your name. You'll have it to three minutes. And
- if you're on zoom, you can use the raise hand function and we will get to you as well. Good. Hello.
- My name is Tracy B and I'm the president of the Maple Heights Neighborhood Association. I've actually
- asked for a postponement of this vote because my neighborhood I've heard
- Nothing before this issue has actually raised the ire of my neighbors so much. I struggle to get my
- neighbors involved with our neighborhood, and I have heard nothing but complaints about this. And I'm
- asking for a postponement so that I can basically talk with my neighbors about the new map and sort
- of get a read on
- how they feel about this new map, and whether they're against it or for it. But I don't feel like the
- new map, which I only saw a few days ago, I didn't have time to schedule a meeting with my neighbors.
- I think we need more time, basically. But right now, they're not happy. I've never seen them so unhappy.
- That's OK.
- Thank you. Did you write your name down on the okay. Please go ahead. Thank you for your comments. Do
- we have anybody on zoom. No. Okay. Well then I would welcome the next person in council chambers. Be
- sure to write your name. Thank you.
- My name is Aubrey Williams, and I'm one of the co-founders at Heartwork Brewing, which is in the proposed
- map area. I'm a Bloomington North and IU grad and mom of two, and I grew up and live on the north side
- of town. And I will say, whether this is settled tonight or postponed, the conversations I've had with
- fellow small business owners in the area have been very positive towards providing some kind of identity
- wayfinding
- something to assist us as we try to run these businesses as everyone knows that Having a small business
- is challenging and as Plumingtonians I feel like we have a passion for small locally owned businesses
- and wanting to support them But that doesn't always line up with a lot of the infrastructure and other
- things available and so that's one reason I think a lot of the business owners are
- Supportive of some kind of initiative that would draw some positive attention to some blighted properties
- And positive business growth for those of us so that we can survive in that environment. Thanks Thank
- you anybody else in council chambers want to make a comment please come to the podium It yeah and this
- in general is about right now it's about the amended map
- There will be another opportunity after the amendment to talk on the topic in general So it depends
- on if you're gonna talk about the map or just the thing in general Okay, go ahead My name is Joshua Stockton
- First I'd like to thank the council for accepting my invitation to tour the Monroe water treatment plant
- and scheduling subsequent tours which will tie into my Concerns later in this issue But my main concern
- today is the implementation of this new stadium district I do live within one block of the lines within
- this district in the Garden Hill neighborhood
- But my main concern right now is increased amenities and development within this neighborhood as time
- goes on. So that would be bars, businesses, other restaurants, which could potentially increase property
- valuation in adjacent neighborhoods like the Garden Hill neighborhood, which I know was excluded but
- still might be affected. Specifically, I'm looking at my
- Rent going up about $100 to $150 per month this next year. And with this new implementation of a new
- district, more businesses in that district could affect that further in the future. More specifically
- in 2020, this property that I live at at 1015 North Lincoln Street was valued at 401, $500.
- And now in 2025, it is valued at $874,300. That is a 111% increase in property valuation in just five
- years. That taxation is put on the tenants of that unit. Another issue I have is that this area does
- not support the foot traffic and the car demand that will be developed from this neighborhood.
- I'm also concerned about the increase in intoxicated drivers within this neighborhood. It's very known
- if you live in this neighborhood, there is a lot of drunk driving, especially amongst students. And
- I've seen it myself. I saw it last night. And with further development of bars and businesses and restaurants
- within that area that specifically do serve alcohol, I'm concerned that will be
- Furthered issue. I'm also concerned that it would be an issue between travel between downtown and this
- new neighborhood people going between bars and driving Another concern I have with private development
- within this neighborhood Specifically commercial property is outpacing our municipal development. So
- I'm mainly concerned about our
- Development of the Monroe water treatment plant and the demand there. I know you guys are going to see
- that soon, but This would only further demand from an already exacerbated system Of infrastructure that
- desperately needs upgraded So I think a key takeaway from this is a timeline to achieve our sustainable
- municipality development specifically for commercial properties And that's your time. Thank you
- Sorry, wasn't paying attention to the clock. Is there anybody else who would like to give public comment
- on the amendment? Oh, okay. Go ahead and unmute the first person and please state your name clearly
- for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. Good evening, Madam President. This is Chris Herring
- from the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. I'm going to stick to the amendment that I'm going
- to talk about and I want to thank
- Ms. Cooper Smith and ESD for changing the boundaries. The stadium district concept began 16 months ago,
- advanced by a Northside hotelier who recognized the potential for this area. It is not to displace,
- diminish neighborhood identity. Absolutely none of that. This is a commercial venture, not a neighborhood
- one. Neighborhood identity is going to stay the same.
- And so we'll talk about this further in the next public comment, but I wanna make sure we realize where
- we're coming from and the improvements made to the boundaries from where they were earlier. Thank you
- for your time. I look forward to speaking again. Thank you. And we had one other person on Zoom. Please
- state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. Hi, this is Paul Russo.
- I live a quarter mile north of the Heartworks Brewery. And regarding the boundaries, I appreciate that
- my neighborhood, just to the west of college, a residential neighborhood, is not inside of this. I think
- that's appropriate. And what I'm mystified by is why the vast areas of college student housing between
- just to the east of Showers Park
- there are probably, oh my gosh, I don't know how many, three, four, 5,000 units of housing in there.
- And I don't know why that's in a district that is, whose purpose is primarily commercial. That doesn't
- make much sense for me. As an overall comment, I don't know if this is the time to say it. I'm just,
- my first, I know very little about this, just learned about it actually. And I'm wondering if the,
- One of the main purposes is to serve as a welcoming to people because this is such a common gateway
- into Bloomington. Well, then why not call it that? The gateway district instead of the stadium district,
- because the name stadium doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the purposes. I don't know.
- Maybe you've already thought that through, but that's all I have to say. Thank you.
- Thank you. Does anybody else want to make a comment on the amendment? All right, we'll come back to
- council members. Any final either follow-up questions or comments on the amendment? I have a question.
- Oh, I'm sorry. I have a follow-up question from Mr. Russo's comment.
- Why is it that all that student housing east of North Walnut Street is part of the district Councilmember
- Stokes for So that area is zoned as mixed-use student and so one of the things that that we were thinking
- about when creating this map was wanting to have a continuous map as opposed to like you know things
- dotted all over the place and if you're
- Familiar with that area. You'll know like on the corner of the bypass. There is a whole strip that is
- very commercial. There are restaurants Whether there's at least one restaurant on that corner There
- is a car wash. There's some other things and then coming up
- Walnut there. There's another couple of restaurants along walnut and then what you may not Think about
- or realize is a lot of those large student complexes in there have some first-floor retail
- or have possibility of first-floor retail So there's actually a couple of restaurants in that first
- in some of the new first-floor retail off of done And so it's the kind of thing where we're going well
- if and and there's a hotel or two in there, too I think actually so it's it's a space that is zoned
- such that a
- as these complexes are going up they can potentially have retail commercial businesses in them and certainly
- don't want to exclude those either existing or developing businesses from that space. So mixed use zoning
- districts is kind of interesting and that's why you know there was more extension on the original map
- kind of recognizing that you know
- These are mixed use districts. And so specifically around Maple Heights where we did a little bit more
- refinement in that corner by 17th and college. There's more like mixed use district in there. So it's
- the kind of thing like might not be commercial right now. But in theory it could be commercial in the
- future. So we were not just thinking what is right now but also what could be in the future. And so
- that's where you know we took out some of that stuff in Maple Heights that is not commercial now took out
- the the Garden Hill areas that are not commercial now even though they're also mixed-use student but
- that other mixed-use student district already has a lot of commercial in our mixed into that space so
- I hope that that answers your question yes and I hope that that answers for mr. Rousseau to in terms
- of that reasoning any other either councilmember comments or follow-up questions yes councilmember sorry
- Thank you so much. Maybe a question for either one of you. When we're thinking about the map specifically,
- because that's what I'm allowed to comment on right now, who's our archetype? Because this is a marketing
- experience. So who's our persona or archetype that we're sort of designing this space for? I'm not sure
- what you mean by that. Like the type of business or? Persona. No.
- do a marketing, like if you think about brand and marketing, right? You think about who you're branding
- to. And then you come up with like a shape that you go, this is gonna mean something to that person.
- So I'm just curious, like who is our, yeah. I know I used the term correctly. Yeah, so like who is our
- persona here?
- This is a bespoke solution for Bloomington based really on the businesses that exist in the area and
- taking the Miller Showers Park as the core of the district. We looked at other incentivized districts
- across the state for different purposes. But there is not a city comparable to Bloomington really,
- you know, here in Indiana when you're looking at other like are we do we do we think this and again, I think
- This is weird, because we have to do this part before we do the part where you actually talk about the
- whole thing. You've already done the whole thing, so I'm having to ask a question. It's OK. Yeah. But
- do you expect this to appeal? Like, who does naming this anything appeal to? I think this is a name
- that will appeal to, you know, specifically to our many, many visitors. That drive our economy every
- year. And I think it will.
- have little impact to the residents who will not even have to know that this name exists. It's a tag
- that the businesses can use if they want to. The reason it's chosen as the stadium district and not
- the gateway district is because this district, which is not just the Memorial Stadium and it's not just
- football, it is this whole complex that attracts thousands and thousands of visitors to Bloomington.
- And it has its own vibe and it is,
- If it has an identity that flexes and changes with time So if you're driving in if you're commuting
- into Bloomington, it's got one identity at 8 a.m on Monday if you're here on a Basketball night. There
- was a basketball game tonight. You can see the cones going up And the district starts to change for
- people who live in the area some of them
- Love this proximity and some of them are chagrined by the activity the inconvenience of the traffic
- patterns changing You can even hear music permeating the district when there are you know activities
- happening outside in the
- the athletics complex area from Dunn Street near Griffey you can hear even the north marching band practicing
- in those football games so there there are elements that carry throughout the district and I'm afraid that
- I haven't focused on selling it and I haven't painted a real picture for why it's the stadium district,
- but it's very purposeful that it be the stadium district. My question just as really, and that, lots
- of interesting thoughts there for later too, but I'm just interested in the question of if our persona
- is mostly like, if we think this is a marketing and branding activity for visitors to Bloomington, of
- whom people are alums, there's a lot of categories that fall under visitor.
- is just about the sort of
- whether this area feels continuous to a person. So again, it's that question about this thing on the
- left side here, those two little cutouts, whether it matters that that feels like I'm in it and that
- I'm not in it sort of argument, which I think also then goes later to concerns that people in Maple
- Heights might have that if it's not super clear when the district starts and finishes for somebody who's visiting,
- that has I think implications for how the district is shaped and how it's marketed, et cetera. Well,
- as council member Stossberg mentioned, the shape of the district captures the commercial properties.
- And so if we have primary, secondary, tertiary audiences, but our primary audience is those visitors
- who are visiting Bloomington and trying to figure out where they should stay for their event. But if
- they're staying in the district and they need to get baby formula or gas up their car, or they want
- to figure out where to have dinner, then they're not,
- It's not my thought that they will look at this map and consult it and figure out where to go, but that
- they will just search up someplace. And if it has a stadium district tag, that's going to signal to
- them that it's convenient. It's in the area that they're staying. And I think, too, that when you think
- about the hotel applications, that's pretty helpful, especially as we're expanding our destination tourism
- activities with the convention center.
- Conference goers are going to want to know am I staying near the am I staying near the Convention Center?
- Oh Or am I staying in a place that's apart from and so being able to Signify that there's this area
- that is named the stadium district. There are hotels here. It is not a
- Adjacent to but it is somewhat proximal to the convention center My last question on that line of thinking
- is just what like why have a map at all? Like why why not the resolution just say that we are now? Declaring
- that there is a place in the city that could be called the stadium district So that anyway if you want
- to call yourself the stadium district call yourself the state part of the stadium district Why is it
- important that we delineate where where it is and where it's not?
- Because somebody in Maple Heights on their you know on their Airbnb thing say I'm in the stadium district
- like because nobody's gonna go Well, I think that it's responsive to the feedback that we've been getting
- from our community that they and I think that's one thing and then point to their feedback about Airbnbs
- is spot-on that we don't want to do anything to inadvertently drive Airbnb
- I'm sorry I need to say short-term rental that we do not want to drive short-term rentals in any way
- shape or form that's counter to 100% of our goals here at City Hall. So I think the limits on it are
- helpful and then participants within the district can use that name and if someone's on the margin if
- a business is on the margin there's there's no this is this is elective right. This is there's no enforcement.
- It's it's only supposed to be a value-add if the businesses want to use this handle. Thank you I just
- want to add the the kind of hotelier and Airbnb aspect to it because I know I talked about that a little
- bit last time and I think that it was really kind of clumsy because it's not about encouraging Airbnb
- is per se but encouraging because like Airbnbs or short-term rentals are gonna exist right and
- Those people who are staying there I mean we want them to be good neighbors right for the the little
- bit of time that they are neighbors, but we also At least I would also like for them to frequent the
- other places that they're near so that they're not driving anywhere I mean I love it when I go somewhere
- else and I stay in a short-term rental and I park my car and then I never move it again because I walk
- everywhere and it's
- often really helpful to me in those situations or also when I go to hotels to have those little flyers
- that go here. All the things that are in this district near where you are.
- so that then you can access it. So when I was talking about that before, I wasn't necessarily thinking
- like, ooh, this is gonna be great for Airbnbs. I was thinking, ooh, this is gonna be good for the restaurants
- that are close to these places that are gonna have Airbnbs or short-term rentals, because yes, I should
- not be branding it in that way, because there are a lot of different short-term rental companies and
- options. And when I was looking then at the map of Airbnbs specifically, it's like, yeah, there's kind
- of a disproportionate number of listings over there versus
- other areas of town and like that's because of that proximity to the stadium whether we name it stadium
- or not like that's going to happen. And so then it's trying to give some
- advantage to those other businesses, those restaurants, those shops, those other frequenting places.
- I mean, even places like there's a hair-cutting place over there. It's like, you know, you might be
- on vacation and maybe this is the only time you have time to get your hair cut. So you might want to
- know that information. And so being able to have this as an advertising tool, I think, can be really
- powerful, especially when we're talking about small businesses.
- And there's a lot of small businesses over there that are really kind of tucked in that I don't think
- are highly noticeable. And then in terms of the other audience for this that I think is really important
- to keep in mind are
- Bloomington residents as a whole not necessarily just the people who live near there But I mean this
- is an area that does get a lot of traffic when folks come in for events at In at the stadium or in the
- sports complex But that means at the times of year where where there are not those events. It is slower
- over the summer It's slower and those are deliberate times where like I as a as a townie go
- Okay, I want to maybe try to frequent some of those things that I don't want to frequent When there's
- the big crowds in those places from you know big crowds of visitors But I might want to you know know
- that they exist and then frequent them on the slow time. So that also provides this This this tool for
- advertising for these folks that are going like hey, it's the middle of July right now we we need your
- business over here in the stadium district because we want to keep surviving and
- And so that's the other kind of audience that not solely the visitors, but also working around those
- times when you have visitors. Because we can predict that, right? I'm sure that these restaurants over
- there can look at different IU schedules and go, this is when we're gonna be busy, this is when we're
- gonna be busy, and this is when we're gonna have a slow time. So how can we advertise our slow time
- in a different way to a different population that gets some other people over here?
- Yeah, any other questions Are there comments on the amendment before we vote comments by council members,
- I guess we already had to comment from councilmember Stossberg Oh Councilmember Rallo The map is a is
- an improvement. So I'll say I vote yes on the amendment Any other comments
- All right. I think we can call the roll on the amendment to ordinance twenty twenty five dash resolution
- twenty twenty five dash eight. Yes. Rough. That's my rough. Yes. Yes. Piedmont Smith.
- Yes, Stossberg. Yes. Daily. Yes. Rosenberger. Yeah. And I'm sorry. Thank you. And I vote yes. I got
- you because I didn't start with you today. All right. So the vote on the amendment is eight zero. We
- now go back to the resolution as a whole as it has now been amended.
- Are there any other questions from council members seeing none. We will go to the public. Is there any
- public comment on council members. Sorry. Do you have a question about the resolution.
- Just one brief one, sorry. The question about feedback from the folks in, I mean, we've incorporated
- the feedback from Maple Heights, but today the representatives are saying they're not happy with us
- proceeding. I don't know, I mean, I wish I could just ask them, but not happy with us proceeding today
- just to postpone it, just to get a better sense of how the neighborhoods
- thinking about this, what are your thoughts on, I mean again, I said this last time, this is a marketing
- exercise and so rollout matters an awful lot. This is, okay so the question is, are you asking me to
- summarize what feedback I have understood from Maple Heights or what do we do with it? So we're saying
- we're reflecting their feedback but then they're saying don't do it. Yes.
- In my opinion, I mean, this is this is delicate and I want to convey a lot of respect and gratitude
- for everyone who's put time into showing up at our public meetings and providing feedback on this map.
- I really appreciate it and I'm sorry that it didn't happen immediately and before this showed up on
- a council agenda. That was not acceptable. Having said that, I feel that we have incorporated the
- The feedback and the concerns that we have heard By removing Almost all of Maple Heights from this map.
- So if we were to remove more of Maple Heights, we would just be removing those commercial properties
- in the mixed corridor So now that we've responded to that in my opinion, this is now returning to the
- larger economic development strategy question and we have
- a strategy in our economic development framework to promote different nodes of commercial activity across
- Bloomington. This is one of them. So we are constantly looking at downtown, how we lift that up. We're
- looking at what's happening south of downtown. We're looking at the trades district. I'm thinking a
- lot also about college mall in the area over there, what's happening. We're working to organize businesses
- on the west side where there is like always ice cream and a ton of locally owned businesses still within
- city limits that I think
- We've been neglected for a long time. So we're working in ESD We're working across the city to try to
- lift up our local business owners and help them self-organize and then eventually promote those nodes
- as well so that when we have whether it's residents or visitors we have a lot of options for people who
- Who we can invite into to different places of Bloomington So the stadium district is one piece of that
- broader strategy to promote distinct nodes of commercial activity And I and So, yeah, I guess I'll leave
- it there. Is that a good answer? Okay, I shouldn't trail off like that Councilmember Stossberg
- I guess I want to want to add to that a little bit in terms of some of the email exchanges that that
- I had with community members that one of the One of the Areas of current concern was the name and the
- names association with IU and It's no secret that we're a pretty progressive and liberal town and that
- there's some town gown divides right now and especially
- gown administration kind of divides. And so that was something that was highlighted to me in a couple
- different email threads. And that's not something that could get resolved with more time and another
- delay, I don't think. I think that that's something that's more endemic. I do appreciate that one public
- commenter actually had an alternate name suggestion. It's not one that I love because I don't think
- that it's really
- describes as a wayfarer. I mean, so why would the north side be a gateway? If you're not from Bloomington,
- why wouldn't the west side be a gateway? Or why wouldn't the east side be a gateway? A lot of people
- come in from Brown County, from the east side. So I think that that kind of name could be debatable
- about where it is that we're talking about. But it's less debatable in terms of stadium, in terms of
- this area, and kind of facing the reality that this is part of that space. The stadiums, the whole sports complex
- of what is there and so I don't think that you know a Delay would necessarily help with that in terms
- of that Yeah, I think I'm answering the question That's what I thought that I was doing because he wanted
- to know about email I did not see a connection between what you were saying and his question, but if
- there was I do not Other questions, please from council members
- Councilmember Rallo Yeah, I I see the utility in this I I have some trepidation about The name I guess
- I understand It's near the stadium and so it's sort of going a lot of the I'm prefacing it right now.
- Okay? Doing a contextual are we running out of time to see me?
- My thinking is that we had a complaint this evening from Miss Brink About short-term rentals about every
- and bees so this could actually be utilized in a commercial sense to target, you know the area for Airbnb's
- as well, you know, this is I mean, I there are concerns of the neighborhood about impact and
- Could be a potential impact. I mean good for business good for some local businesses Maybe not so good
- for neighborhood So I'm in a quandary there My question I guess is this would potentially have that
- impact number one number two The president of the Maple Heights neighborhood Association has
- Said this evening that she has not had adequate time in order to Communicate this with the neighbors
- and so there's a plea for more time and So I'm sensitive to that as well. Do you want to respond director
- because Coopersmith? Those concerns. Yes. I'm happy to thanks. So the first question about was about
- concern for inadvertently
- attracting air Airbnb's to the area based on commercial activity and I do not believe that this Will
- worsen the state of Airbnb's and there are other adjacent neighborhoods. I think the Airbnb market is
- on its own out of outsized trajectory that is influenced by
- winning football team and These other things I don't think the naming of this commercial district is
- going to worsen it and then I don't think I can say much about it but I guess what I want to communicate
- to the public and to the council is that we are we are very focused the administration is very focused on
- Short-term rentals and what we can do to mitigate them and so looking at what systems can be put in
- place because I think that degrading our commercial activity Okay, that's that's hyperbole but not taking
- the opportunity to lift up our local businesses and not Capturing commercial activity where we can that's
- effectively saying. Okay, we're gonna address the Airbnb short-term rental crisis
- By making Bloomington less a less desirable place and I don't think that's the right solution. I think
- we need to look at a policy solution for short-term rentals and we need to continue our very dedicated
- work on Adding housing units to Bloomington and and that that's the way to address that problem, but
- I want to acknowledge that
- They're horrible. They're bad for our neighborhoods. They're they're in my neighborhood, too I've been
- calling them ghost houses because You know, it's it's a non-neighbor. It's it's not a nice thing, but
- I don't think that this is the legislation that's going to Be the right way to address that The second
- question was about postponement I I can't answer that for you. I
- And I just again like respect to the neighborhood association and the people who've shown up for this.
- But I think you'll just have to weigh that on balance. Any other council members have questions.
- Councilmember Rosenberger I was going to ask if
- We are on the question and they still are where we are. A question I have is can someone explain the
- naming process how the stadium district was decided. Council member Sasseberg or would you like to go first.
- I had a conversation with a member of the chamber who brought it to me as a concept and said and who
- had brought it He had gotten it from business owners in that space And it had been brought to me with
- the concept of a name Actually, the the concept that came to me was sports district and I didn't like
- sports district Because I felt like there were
- As I just said that there are other places in Bloomington that you could call a gateway I think that
- there are also other places in Bloomington. You could call a sports district And I thought that stadium
- was a little bit more specific and I threw that name out as a suggestion to him Not necessarily thinking
- that it was going to stick But then it apparently did So after that, yeah, and we have been
- Two two behind the scenes perhaps but we've been floating this name across business meetings and we've
- discussed it in detail with Civic Brand which is the branding committee that or the branding consultant
- that's working on the citywide branding. And then as I mentioned at our last meeting this is.
- Hardly endorsed by visit Bloomington, which is really our destination tourism brand experts. So You
- know sometimes this this simple answer is the right answer and the stadium Whatever your whatever our
- personal relationships are with the the tension related to town and gown right now What I've whether
- we're football enthusiasts or not a stadium is a grand thing, right? It's it's a large
- Monument piece of architecture in our community. It is an anchor and This simple name has been really
- well well received and is supported by our expert partners Quick follow-up. Did you try to get the stadium
- included in the district since it's not in it? we didn't I mean we tossed that around early on but I
- Our instinct was not to include the actual stadium in the district because this is really for The it's
- for the community. It's a benefit for the community and then we did Talk about it with our IU counterparts
- and they they didn't Yeah, it was mutual They didn't want it They they were It wasn't negative like
- it was just very
- The conversation was almost more like, hey, we're doing this. We want to let you know our instinct is
- not to include you. And then they were supportive of that. And it makes sense, because they're a closed
- system there, right, when you're on campus.
- Shunting activity to campus doesn't benefit the community but if we can drive activity to the community
- When visitors are here for events that are in the sports complexes really specifically then that that
- benefits the community that benefits us Thank Any other councilmember questions before we go to the
- public councilmember Rallo
- Yes as this is a tool for wayfaring what kind of signage will be Used This citywide civic brand well,
- no, it won't be this civic brand. Sorry the city after it moves through this citywide branding will
- do Hire a consultant I suspect and do some dedicated work on wayfinding So we've been talking with visit
- Bloomington about that now. We know our way findings really out-of-date and
- Needs to be updated. So there was a budget line for I think we were calling it a wayfinding audit in
- 2026 So more to come on that. We don't know what the answer will be Come to council for approval I Don't
- think they I mean we have a planner here As long as they probably meet the code do I don't think that
- they would would wayfinding signage come before council No
- Okay. All right. Any other questions. We will go to the public then as any member of the public wish
- to comment on the resolution as amended.
- Thank you for signing in. Hi. I have a migraine so I'm going to read this one probably. Can you state
- your name. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm Casey Green. I live in District 2 and I'm in Maple Heights and I want
- to start by acknowledging all of the work and outreach that has gone on to everybody but us.
- I know that there's a sense of ownership about this, but the amended proposal is conceived with the
- GIS team, not with the community and not with neighboring partners. We have been begging for a constituent
- meeting, which has not happened. I don't know how you feel, but a half block over is still my neighbor.
- So let me tell you what this proposal does not do. It does not address the danger of crossing the college
- walnut corridor. It does not address loss of sleep. It does not address
- herbicide sprayed on private property during stadium move-in times, fireworks set off at random times
- even when not on game day, urinating on the front lawn in the middle of the day, driving by and yelling
- out the window, liberal witch, because I've reported them too many times,
- grown men on my porch at my doorstep telling me that I have no right to report them because I live so
- close to the stadium. I know what I'm getting into, and if I don't like it, then I need to move. I own
- my home. This is all recent in the last two years, not prior.
- Most of all, it does not even solve the problem that it claims to. Stadium culture bars exist downtown.
- That's Kilroy's, Nick's, Yogi's. Competing with well-established history within our own community is
- not a winning marketing strategy. Our focus should be on sustainable, family-friendly establishments,
- and I've not heard any argument for why stadium is going to attract
- Our residents during non-peak hours that name doesn't resonate and it doesn't add anything to the narrative
- We should not be wasting taxpayer dollars funding police to babysit nuisance tenants And we should not
- be using scarce hand resources to school Marm profit based developers
- This isn't a development problem, it's an entitlement to stadium culture problem that is around our
- neighborhood. We can find common ground on a commercial district, but we cannot do that unless we are
- treated with at least as much dignity as every other stakeholder that has been involved already. Finally,
- I would suggest it's irresponsible to take ownership of a proposal that inherently puts residents in
- antagonistic relationships with their future neighbors.
- Passing this proposal with full knowledge of the damages that we are already incurring just in the recent
- year Without any attempt to mitigate the inevitable loss of quiet peaceful enjoyment suggests alignment
- with those interested in driving residents out for profit And the developer behind my house has indicated
- that is their intention And that is all I have to say
- Thank you. Is there anybody on Zoom who would like to comment? Okay, we'll go with the first person
- on Zoom. Please state your name and then you'll have up to three minutes. Good evening again,
- Madam President. This is Chris Herringy from the Bloomington Chamber of Commerce and I can't believe
- what I'm hearing tonight. The stadium district is to help anchor a positive upbeat vision for a corridor in
- desperate need for investment that helps current residents, existing businesses, that gets future investment.
- This is a nothing burger. I'm sorry, Mr. MG, could you hold on just a moment? Council Attorney Lanner,
- I'm sorry, we have only five people in person. We have five council members present in the room, so.
- Okay, we need to. Recess until.
- I'm very sorry. Mr. MG will let you start from the beginning No, no, we will do a five-minute recess
- is that and Then we will come back Sorry Okay Let us reconvene the council meeting and we were at public
- comment on resolution 2025-18
- as revised, and Mr. Christopher M.G. was speaking via Zoom, and we'll let him start afresh with his
- comments. Apologies, by the way. I didn't know I had the power. Thank you again, Councilmember
- Piedmont-Smith, Christopher M.G., Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. You know, I'll get to a little
- bit of what we were talking about and not some of the things that already been mentioned. Ms. Cooper-Smith
- did a great job.
- This area has some blight in it. It needs some help. And I don't think we're starting from that point
- or kind of mentioning that. I'm a bloomerang and if you look 30 years ago when I was in college the
- place does not look the same and the same meaning not as good. This district is the least we can do
- to help trigger some much needed private investment. Signal some commitment to that area and reduce
- barriers for entrepreneurship. We've heard the Airbnb argument.
- What about the argument that may happen that people may stay at hotels more because the district is
- more thriving? Maybe there's another hotel that appears that makes it more thriving and gets people
- out of Airbnb's. This is not about rewriting zoning or pushing boundaries. We want neighborhoods to
- have the same wonderful character they do. It's about defining the area that has its own moment and
- giving a name that reflects vitality, opportunity, harnessing IU athletics. Athletics.
- IU football centers don't need health marketing. Problems you see on game days are going to be the problems
- you're going to see anyway. That's just an issue that we're going to have that residents probably have
- already been dealing with for the past years that we've heard. This doesn't change that and make it
- worse, make it better. But however, we want to make this beyond the game days where summer camps, a
- lot of summer camps, athletic camps are all over there. We want to market that area so Northside becomes
- a little bit of a hub for visiting families.
- families in the Midwest, a clear distinct identity that helps guide them, local restaurants, hotels,
- and retailers, that Councilmember Stosberg mentioned quite eloquently. It strengthens small business,
- generating much needed tax revenue for Bloomington. And we want to help make sure we don't characterize
- this as some sort of marketing gimmick or Trojan horse for something else. It couldn't be further from
- the truth. The chamber supports this, have been pushing for this.
- 16 months ago. This is locally originated, strengthening the North Side economy, giving it a sense of
- place. We believe this measured fact-based progress is not cynicism. It's giving much-needed recognition
- to an area that's gone far undeserved, the type of investment we're hoping for. So let's vote for this.
- We don't need to put it off. We just need to move forward with
- naming something and sort of hopefully this spurs some much needed investment in an area too long neglected
- here in Bloomington. I thank you for your time tonight and I thank Mr. Rawa for not interrupting me
- this final time. I can't but thank you. Appreciate it. Is there anybody else in council chambers who
- would like to make a comment. I believe we have one other person on Zoom.
- So that person can please state their name for the record and then have up to three minutes to comment.
- Hi, this is Paul Rousseau again. Thank you for answering my questions about the district name and about
- the inclusion of the large area of student housing between Walnut and Dunn. I regret not having the
- time to be involved in the process, but I understand the need for a plan to help small businesses along
- College and Walnut because I've seen the boarded up Steak and Shake building almost every day for two years.
- In support of the goals of this project, I implore you once again to use enforcement and education to
- reduce the speed of motor vehicles. The Walnut College Speedway is not only dangerous, it is also not
- conducive to attracting business. Drivers who turn off of college or Walnut routinely use the bicycle
- lane as a turning lane. I see this almost every day. I think they do this as a way to slow down for
- their turn
- without inviting a rear end collision. I'm not asking you to amend the district, but this seems like
- a good time to remind you that lower vehicle speed is an additional important factor in supporting local
- small businesses. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have anybody else on zoom? Okay. We will come back to
- council members for final comments on this item.
- Who would like to make a final comment? Council member Rosenberger. I'll go first because I also kind
- of have a question for council members here that if you wish to speak on in your comment, that could
- be helpful. I am not, I do not think this is ready. And so from my perspective, I'm okay postponing
- it, which I think would end up being indefinitely because we have a,
- The deliberative back in that week and then it becomes the holiday. So I think it would probably come
- back at the beginning of 2026. So I'm OK with that or I'm OK voting no tonight and then it can still
- come back at the beginning of 2026. So I guess I'm wondering what people have an appetite for tonight
- if they plan on not voting yet for it or not not wanting to vote.
- Some thoughts that I have around it if we do put on it and so some good thoughts I would like. Yes,
- you to go to a maple Heights neighborhood Association meeting I would like there to be a process for
- recommending and choosing a name for the district that happened for Eagleton Avenue, it's one 3 this
- is an entire district, I think.
- It's a lot more meaningful to everyone, like residents of our city, if they're involved in something
- like that. And I think there's a lot more buy-in. I know some businesses like the named stadium district,
- but I have not heard a resident say that they like it or that want to live in or near it. And that is
- problematic for me. Wayfinding is hard when the name of it isn't even in the district. So to me,
- You know, it's not it isn't in it when what director Cooper said was Miller our park is at the core
- of the district. I think that that help with way finding of the name Miller shower district potentially
- I mean I'm not really here to give ideas I think that if I were north of downtown no no also in my direction
- in the city and way finding.
- Something like north of downtown is also year round it's not the stadium kind of you can Saturday.
- A year. I think you when we talk about the stadium, we are encouraging tailgate culture or I think that
- the 3 that the ball stadium culture. I don't know that is that what we want to be there that what residents
- want I do think
- it would be great to create this neighborhood of our comp our comp plan that you know we need
- more neighborhood. And when I hear neighborhood have I think about the health of you live there and
- what they would want and I don't think we need to necessarily be at odds of visitors versus residents
- and what they might want I think you know a brewery wants both inside and they want a sense of community
- right and like that comes from my creating a place where people
- want to live and not just visit, I think. So stuff to think about. I think the college walnut study
- and redesign, as Mr. Russo said, is also really important. I hear, I mean, there's so much talk about
- housing wrapped into this, and I also can't get it out of my mind that we're talking about economic
- development as a way to attract visitors, more and more visitors to a city when we have a housing crisis.
- We don't have homes for people. People can't afford the homes that are here. And someone who lives in
- a neighborhood is gonna buy a hamburger a lot more from a neighborhood pub than someone who visits twice
- a year. So to me, working on our housing problem is just so important when we're looking at economic
- development. And that's, again, where I'm like, doesn't have to be visitors versus residents. So what
- can we do so residents are happy and visitors are attracted here, I guess.
- So, I'm big on postponing or voting no tonight, but still, I'm very excited about the district and the
- River District itself once that becomes a thing for discounted liquor licenses. I always also think
- this as a hub for college students to hang out is important because a lot of them live up there and
- then they might not walk or bike or drive drugs down to Kirkwood. Thanks. All right. What other council
- members would like to comment?
- I'm sure So councilman Rosenberger's comments, I I think are are good ones and some of this Proposed
- district lies in her council district. And so that matters to me I see advantages to this for businesses.
- I understand the chamber's advocacy. I appreciate the work that's been done by
- Director Cooper Smith and by my colleague President Stossberg, but I think that The outcome seems plausibly
- good the process seems to me to have been not optimal and That concerns me We've had neighbors come
- out and describe that they haven't been party to the discussions on this and
- the outcome might have been different. And so I have a lot of trepidation about that, not just in this
- case, but whether it sets some kind of precedent that I prefer to avoid. I would like a process that's
- inclusive, especially people who are living in that area that were proposed to name. So I would be voting
- a no on this, or for postponement. That's where I find myself.
- So I will be Waiting to hear my fellow colleagues about their preference. Thanks Any other council members
- care to comment councilmember Flaherty Thank you This is a really interesting discussion and I appreciate
- it There's there's a book called suburban nation that I read ten years ago
- that was probably the first urban planning book I read of now many urban planning books. And it introduces
- a concept about pods of development, and that the fundamental problem with development from the 1950s
- to even today in some cases, but let's say 2000, is that we thought of everything as separate. Commercial
- here, residential, multifamily here, single family over here, business parks here.
- has a lot of negative effects. It really fragments a community. It creates highways in the middle of
- town, for instance, to get people around because we no longer have a connected network. And while that's
- not exactly what we're talking about here, I think it really resonates with what I found to be kind
- of wrong-headed, I guess, about thinking that this is just about commercial and that we can ignore the
- residential or just pull them out when the neighborhoods like Garden Hill and Maple Heights say that
- They really find this quite offensive and not at all attractive to them. So I think when I think of
- quality of place or strengthening Bloomington's identity, sense of place and pride, the things that
- are called out in the presentation from staff about what this is about, it just doesn't seem like this
- is it. We shouldn't separate these things. We should think of residential and mixed use
- and commercial as part of a whole. And I think Councilmember Rosenberg was saying similar things. When
- we look at the comprehensive plan and talk about developing, you know, nodes, mixed-use nodes outside
- of the downtown, it's not meant to be separate from residential. It's meant to be integrated with it.
- So I think the evidence of, you know, that this has kind of missed the mark, and I think the process
- was the reason for that in large part, is the opposition of the
- Surrounding residential residents, you know residential neighborhoods in large part. I Think this doesn't
- help bridge a town gown divide. It sounds like it further drives it actually I think You know Stadium
- district personally, I don't really care for it. I guess the stadium is not in it It's also you know
- in the same way that one said the Gateway District could could be any gateway to town also
- There's east, south, and north directions from the stadium. This is only west of the stadium. Those
- could all be stadium districts, too. But that's kind of beside the point. What I think a good name is,
- or what one or two people think a good name is, or one set of constituents thinks a good name is, is
- not really what it's about. It's about a process and about getting buy-in and a collective vision for
- what's needed here. So the name is maybe just emblematic, actually, of a bigger issue, which is, again,
- that we need to actually
- have something closer to a positive vision that people buy into. And I think the first commenter during
- the full comment, not the amendment period, really had some great points that this is about more than
- economic development. It is about a set of values and about a normative direction for the area. Mr.
- Grosso also talked about
- You know, the dangers of our college walnut corridor. These are our highest injury corridor we have.
- We've had people die on those streets recently. And they need fixing. It's something I've not heard
- a lot of support for from the administration. I've seen a lot of action on, frankly. And this is not
- separate. The safety of those streets, the walkability of those streets is directly tied
- to the reimagination, the reinvention, the redevelopment of that district, which very much does need
- it. Mr. M.G.'s right about that. It needs investment. It needs to be a quality place for people to go.
- And I think we are headed that way. But I think this process and this identity, really the name for
- it, is the wrong direction. And so I'm also a no vote tonight and or in favor of postponing indefinitely
- so that we can come back, I don't know, three to six months later after a process that actually brings in
- and gets residents on board, including in the values of what's needed in this area. Not purely for the
- sake of the businesses and their bottom line, but also for the residents. What does it need? It might
- be slower speeds, increased safety. It might be other things. So I would like to see that. And that's
- where I sit on it. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember Daley. Thank you very much. Yeah, I agree. This
- has been a great conversation. There's been a lot of really good points on all sides, I think.
- There's a lot of value in many of the points That have said I can see both sides of the issue. I don't
- I don't want to vote no on this because I like the idea of building up this area and and focusing on
- economic development, but I also don't want to do that at the expense of the residents who live there
- so I would be heavily in favor of
- of indefinitely tabling this so that we can work on it and make it stronger and get everybody feeling
- good about it. I don't know if it's a fix in terms of finding a different name or taking another look
- at the maps. I certainly understand the reasoning for the maps, but I also certainly understand the
- hesitation on many
- The residents issues so I would yeah councilmember Rosenberger, you know initially asked how we would
- feel about Postponing it and I would support that. So thank you Councilmember sorry, thank you so much
- and echoing my colleagues. I first off this has been fun. I I also think in favor not think I am in
- favor of postponement I
- In one sense, I mean we're saying that this is a marketing activity and I think that we're you know
- accomplishing our goal of you know talking an awful lot about this district we're bringing an awful
- lot of attention to it and you know both externally as well I've I you know have the joy of having some
- of the best
- Students of all time who've reached out and has said like oh, I think that's really interesting that
- you're doing this so great You know starting mission accomplished however, and the thing that I've you
- know said all along no matter what we're voting on I think that and I think that as councilmember Rallo
- said most eloquently process matters here and one of the things that You know makes us the city that
- we are is that I mean you know
- We're weird, right? And we should feel ownership of all of the things that happen here. And so the idea
- of creating a marketing agenda that the people that are being marketed, that the people that make up
- this culture, that the people that make up this city aren't part of that persona, I think is really
- kind of problematic. That you really want the people of the city to be able, even if in jest, and so
- there have been
- suggestions that we name this Dribble Creek or something like that. Now, I don't think that fits the
- persona of the external thing that we're trying to achieve, but it does something to residents, right?
- It creates a conversation, creates ownership, and I think you really want that. What I've heard from
- Maple Heights District is that not
- a complete rejection of the idea of trying to focus and think about place and space here, but wanting
- to be involved in the process. And I think that that in and of itself is enough for us to say that we
- shouldn't move forward with haste on this. You certainly don't want to create the opposite outcome that
- we claim to be wanting to do. So for that reason, I'd be very much for postponing this.
- But also, as I think other colleagues have said, I get what we're trying to do. I think it is the right
- thing for us to do. I think that it is in the broad sense of things. I think that we want to have a
- lot of different districts around the city that we can focus economic activity in. And again, I mean, you know.
- Yeah, so I'll stop there but I just I do think that the most important point is that if we're not involving
- the residences as I said Two or three weeks, however long ago and it really is a sort of non-starter
- for me. So, thank you Other comments on the resolution Council member Stossberg Thank you. Um, I
- Didn't write out a speech for this so I think the first thing I want to address is some of the members
- of the public who have expressed some concerns about what I'll say is their quality of life right now
- currently even without this district and the challenges that they're facing with some of the issues
- over there related to From what I understand
- Stadium and visitor traffic and those sound like very real and serious issues and that absolutely needs
- enforcement by some arm but the economic development department is not the arm that deals with that
- and so those are issues that This may have the certainly brought these issues to light for me personally
- and maybe for other council members maybe for the
- larger community as a whole. And it actually goes along well with Ms. Brink's comment way back in the
- beginning, general public comment about some concerns that she had actually shared with me about another
- East Side Airbnb or short term rental. And like those are very real issues and it's not just the economic
- piece of short term rentals. It's also that party piece because people come and they don't necessarily then
- know or care about our noise ordinance, or know or care that they're maybe staying a night or two next
- to somebody with a couple of small kids that needs to get up to go to work the next day. And those are
- very real issues that, as Director Coopersmith said, I don't think that this designation is going to
- hurt that. It's also not gonna help that. And something else clearly needs to help that.
- And I think that these two things are getting tangled in some ways that make it challenging.
- So I wanted to speak to that for sure. I also wanted to speak to several commenters have mentioned this
- idea of promoting this area for bars and competing with the Kirkwood Bar area for that kind of drinking.
- That is not in the conversations that we have had. That is not the kind of business that is being promoted.
- And I know early on, and there's been some reference, Council Member Rosenberger just referenced the
- Riverfront District. And that is an entirely separate piece of led
- Legislation that is unrelated but that also would not be a promotion of bars In terms of how it has
- been discussed and envisioned it has never been about bars. It has always been about about expanding
- family-friendly options down there and if we also want to think about just in terms of folks who go
- to events of the stadium and sporting events there are tons of families that that
- go to these events with kids of all ages. And so having that family-friendly business thing, that is
- what we have been focusing on. And I understand that in terms of what y'all as
- in the residential spaces near there don't necessarily have that experience because the families that
- might stay in those short-term rentals or go to those games are not the ones that are urinated on your
- lawn. They're not the ones that are really invading your space. You probably don't even necessarily
- realize they're there because they're being family friendly in the ways that you yourself are family
- friendly. So I just want to acknowledge that.
- That that those are some very real issues that need to be faced over there one way or another my
- Motivation and sponsoring this because it's a little outside of my frame of reference in terms of an
- economic development tool In case y'all didn't notice that is not what I've been generally focused on
- But I thought that this was this opportunity that I was faced with this This is you know, kind of a
- strange area because it's district 3 and into district 2 and originally started a little bit of 6 to
- was like, wow, this is an opportunity to add something to the space for these business owners in the
- space, and that was my motivation for doing this. And I still think that it needs to be done.
- I think that it really needs to be done. I would prefer to have yes votes on this tonight. I said going
- into it like, well, I'd rather not postpone it indefinitely. I'd rather just take a no vote. But I appreciate
- what Councilmember Daley said about saying she doesn't really want to vote no on it. But also, it feels
- like there's some issues related to that space that prevent her from voting yes. So I guess at that
- point, I'd rather postpone it. I only have two seconds left.
- So I'll stop there. Thanks. Thank you. I will take a few minutes for comments. So I'm basically going
- to reiterate pieces of different colleagues comments because a lot of good points were raised here tonight.
- I think process does matter and it's
- really not acceptable that there was never a meeting with the neighborhoods that were first included
- and now directly adjacent to the proposed district. Also so that's one thing. I'm also very much supportive
- of Councilmember Flaherty's argument that we shouldn't look at the city as pods like commercials here.
- Residential is here. You know employment is here.
- It should be viewed as a whole. So what I kept hearing in favor of this resolution was that, well, this
- is just for the businesses. It's just for the businesses. Well, we really shouldn't be compartmentalizing
- like that. I mean, when I go to another city to visit, I enjoy the real experience and not like the
- tourist experience. And that real experience comes from mixed use.
- comes from your neighborhood restaurant or your small gift shop or whatever that is in a neighborhood.
- So in that respect, I don't like the proposal itself. So I don't like the process. And I am not much
- in favor of the proposal itself. And I guess that's all. I don't need to go on and on.
- Those are strong enough arguments that I would vote no tonight. I don't really see that this is going
- to come back as anything different. But I guess if we want to postpone, then we could postpone.
- I just think, oh, I know. I remember the other thing I want to say. Way at the beginning when I first
- heard about this, I was thinking, you know, we have a Walnut College corridor study.
- Where the goal is to make this area more safe and if we're Attracting more people to come and visit
- and to spend time in this area before we've made it more safe That just seems like the cart before the
- horse so I also don't know if postponing indefinitely like procedurally Can we do that over a new legislative
- cycle which will start January 1st. I don't know. I'm more inclined to just vote no because I don't
- really want I just I don't see that there is much benefit here to go through all this again frankly.
- All right. That's my comment. If council member rough doesn't have a comment we can go to round two.
- Council member rough do you have a comment.
- Well, I guess I would just say that I don't necessarily agree with some recent comments that nothing
- good could really come of this if we went back to improve the process and be a little more thoughtful
- and gauge a little more. I think some good, larger good things can come from this, but I don't think
- That's going to happen if we move forward with it right now like this. We're going to miss an opportunity
- to maybe generate something that's that does feel bad. That feels good and brings some some some benefits
- to the area and to the whole community. So my instinct would be to postpone. But if it comes to forcing
- a vote or there's a vote tonight up or down I'll probably have to vote down.
- But not because I don't think there's potential here. OK. Thank you. So we have council members are
- allowed up to additional two minutes. Does anybody want to take advantage of that or we can also entertain
- a motion. Council member Rosenberger I was just going to ask.
- if it would be possible for attorney later to just brief folks quickly on the idea of postponing indefinitely
- and what that would look like coming back versus voting no and having a new resolution come back. Attorney
- later. The motion to postpone indefinitely essentially would would kill
- That the resolution and it would need to come back at a later time In the later time is it well, yes,
- there's there's no There's no prohibition on ever bringing this resolution again, I think obviously
- based upon the comments tonight it would need to go through a
- potentially a different process and maybe have a different map et cetera. But the name postponing
- indefinitely is a little misleading because it does operate to to kill the motion. Council member Rosenberg
- does that answer your question. All right. Do we have any motion or further comments. Council member
- Stossberg.
- Yeah, I just want to respond to a couple things that councilmember Piedmont Smith just said about the
- councilmember Flaherty's
- point about the pods and the integration of commercial and residential and say that, yeah, this was
- like a commercial kind of initiative, but one of the rationales of the first map was, you know, including
- the areas that, according to our zoning districts, have potential for small businesses, like what you
- just described, Councilmember Piedmont-Smith. But it was very much like, okay, those areas that are
- generally residential right now and have very few of those small businesses were not interested and
- very strongly not interested, which is why
- was separated then and that clarification was separated because in terms of the zoning over there, it
- is mixed. It is mixed use zoning. It's mixed use student zoning. It's mixed use medium scale. And those
- residential districts that are there are like the R4, the RH. It's like the higher density residential
- spaces that allow for various small business development in them.
- And I think that that's one of those complex moments where it's like wow, there's a real short-term
- rental challenge over there that I don't think that we knew about I didn't know about it that and and
- it was not raised to my attention when I I believe I spoke with Councilmember Rosenberger about this
- last year very briefly and I it was not mentioned to me by
- the ESD department either, so I'm not sure that they knew about it either, but clearly there is a real
- problem over there, which I think makes that really hard. And the second thing I wanted to talk about
- real quick was that issue with college walnut and that pedestrian space, because I think it's sort of
- a chicken and an egg scenario in some ways. So do we wait the years and years and years that it's gonna
- take to get funding and figure out college and walnut changes in order to give the small businesses
- that are there some kind of prop
- Like is that what we do because I think that that's failing those small businesses that are over there
- right now. Thank you Additional follow-up comments councilmember Flaherty Yeah, I briefly just wanted
- to note that like I think functionally a no vote tonight or postponing definitely are the same thing
- to me it doesn't really matter but postponing definitely I think echoes this sort of sentiment that
- most folks have had which is that there's something here that
- there were just some process problems and maybe some substance and outcome problems that we'd like to
- see corrected. So I think there's general support for the idea that reinventing this area, this gateway,
- this core around Miller Showers is a good idea. And so I just wanted to reiterate that. I will use it
- as a moment to clarify too that while I brought in a zoning concept to talk about pods, I wasn't actually
- referring to zoning.
- I was referring to sort of mentality, and in this case, the fact that the residential areas strongly
- rejected it as a symbol that actually we've gotten this wrong. We need to be thinking about it in how
- does the district itself serve both economic and residential interests? That is, how is this quality
- of place for the people who live here? That's what it means. I mean, that's what quality of place is about.
- I think it's about the focus on the economic value alone was what was misplaced. I was drawing an analogy
- from the zoning concept of, you know, different pods of development and that type of separation.
- So that's it. Thanks. Council Member Rosenberger. Hi. Yes, I think everyone just said really awesome
- things tonight. So thanks everyone.
- Council members and folks in the audience and Director Cooper Smith. I would like to then make a motion
- to postpone resolution 20 25 18 indefinitely. OK. Yeah there's an amendment so this would be the amended
- resolution. Oh true. I would like to make a motion to
- Postpone ordinance 2025 dash 18 as amended indefinitely. It can be withdrawn. It can be withdrawn. I
- don't think so. It's just like any other motion to postpone. It's just instead of postponing to a certain
- point in time it's postponing indefinitely.
- So I think the regular Roberts rules apply as postponing and so we don't need to do anything with the
- original motion. The original motion to adopt does not need to be addressed. No this supersedes that
- in my understanding. Yes yes. This is a motion that addresses that. Is this a motion debatable. Yes.
- OK. So are there any.
- Comments about the motion Well council member Stossberg I'm just gonna say I'm gonna vote no to postpone
- it and definitely just because I I mean Councilmember Flaherty's right it effectively like does the
- same thing as voting no on the ordinance or or or the resolution or I mean
- Postponing it indefinitely kills it in the same way that a no vote on the resolution kills it. So I
- don't want to kill it in that way tonight, because as I just said, I think that we need to support the
- business in that area in the ways that we can. And I kind of fully understand that majority rules. And
- so the majority, from what I've heard so far, is going to postpone this indefinitely. And so then that
- really does just mean that it's more work being done then to figure out
- how to support this area in similar ways and bringing forth an entirely new piece of legislation next
- year. Any other comments on the motion to postpone it. Definitely. All right. Clerk McDowell could you
- please call the roll. Yes yes.
- Rollo. Yes. Piedmont Smith. Yes. Stossburg. No. Daly. Yes. Rosenberger. Yes. Asari. Yes. Flaherty. Yes.
- The motion to postpone indefinitely has been passed by a vote of seven to one. I will turn the gavel
- back to President Stossburg.
- Great. Thank you. I'm on to the next thing That is you Okay, I move that ordinance 2025 dash 32 be introduced
- and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second Thank you. It's been moved and seconded to introduce
- ordinance 2025 32. Will the clerk please call the roll on that motion councilmember Rallo? Yes, Piedmont
- Smith. Yes Stossburg. Yes daily
- Yes, Rosenberger Yeah, sorry. Yes Flaherty. Yes and rough. Yes Thank you. That motion passes will a
- clerk please read Ordinance 2025-32 to amend title 20 the unified development ordinance of the Bloomington
- Municipal Code Regarding use table amendment urban agriculture agriculture commercial the synopsis is
- This amendment introduces a new land use urban agriculture commercial. This new land use would allow
- some expanded services and offerings within the city for urban agriculture uses beyond the current similar
- land use of urban agriculture non-commercial. The new proposed land use would allow for an outdoor education
- component on site employees and year round retail sales for produce grown on the property. This use
- is proposed to be a conditional accessory use in the R1
- through our four our M and our H districts and a permitted use in all other districts. There are you
- specific standards a new definition and related adjustments to the numbering of proceeding sections
- of the UDO. This ordinance is in accordance with Indiana code thirty six dash seven dash four dash six
- zero zero. Thank you. I move that ordinance twenty twenty five dash thirty to be adopted.
- Thank you. Before we get to the presentation part of this I want to make a couple notes. This is the
- second time that we've heard this. So this is the third reading for this. And so first I want to say
- last time it was amended. So we are dealing with an amended version of this already.
- And I also want to make note of the memo sent to us by our counsel attorney, Lainer, regarding the changes
- in procedures, because at the last meeting I said, hey, we need to deal with this within 90 days, or
- it goes into effect, because that was the law before July, but they changed that. So if we don't deal
- with it within 90 days, it does not automatically go into effect. However, it also seems to fall into
- that category
- of things if you followed along with zoning stuff. If we have a resolution asking the Plan Commission
- to make a change, then the Plan Commission has 90 days to deal with it. And if they don't deal with
- it, there's not really a penalty. They just haven't dealt with it. And so we have had to re-up a couple
- resolutions this year because of that. This is kind of the same thing. If we don't deal with it in 90
- days, there's not really a penalty. But I think that I really strongly encourage us to,
- deal with it within that 90-day period. And the last day of that is November 18th. This is the last
- regular session before November 18th. So we either need to vote on it tonight, in my opinion, or have
- a special session planned sometime before November 18th if we can't make a decision tonight. So hopefully
- that memo from our attorney made sense to everybody.
- So with that having said who is going to present first from planning? Good evening, Eric Grulick development
- services manager
- You know as as you've mentioned this was certainly introduced last time and discussed at great length
- so I don't really have much to really present tonight. I can certainly go over the overview of the proposed
- changes to the ordinance if that would be beneficial or also happy to just kind of answer any questions
- that may have come up from last time. So happy to take direction from you in terms of what you would
- like us to do.
- Are there council members who would like to hear? Presentation pieces pieces from mr. Grulick or do
- we want to go straight into questions? Comes member Piedmont Smith, I Think for the benefit of the public
- it might be nice to just do a quick summary. Yeah, absolutely So this kind of came about as I mentioned
- last time in regards to several
- instances within our comprehensive plan as well as climate action plan that called for Changes within
- the zoning code to promote the urban agriculture use within the community of Bloomington And so this
- is something that had been promoted within these documents for a long time But in order to kind of best
- appropriate approach it from a holistic standpoint It really kind of from staff's perspective seemed
- appropriate to introduce this as a new land use and allow this with use specific standards with
- within the zoning code however to adopt this within the zoning code any changes to the use table require
- notification to the city as a whole and so this had been just kind of sitting on the back burner for
- a while for an opportunity to introduce this at a time when other pieces of legislation would come about
- that would also involve changes to the use table.
- So we had several pieces of legislation that were coming before the council that involved changes to
- the use table So we took this opportunity to bring forward legislation that allowed this as a specific
- use One of the benefits with that were is that it allows for very specific use specific restrictions
- so these were
- Presented last time and I can certainly kind of go through those and those were in the synopsis as well
- It allowed for the education the outdoor education component had Restrictions on the number of employees
- have restrictions on the number of customers that could be They're not customers, but class sizes that
- could be allowed with the use as well and so those were kind of the main benefits of
- Bringing this forward as a specific use introducing it in the use table and then use specific standards.
- So we are promoting or proposing to allow this as a conditional accessory use in the residential districts meaning
- that there has to be a permitted use on the property first and then this can be allowed as an accessory
- use with conditional use approval. So in the residential districts this would have to come forward to
- the Board of Zoning Appeals or hearing officer as a conditional use. It's proposed to be a permitted
- use in the mixed use districts but would it be a conditional use in the residential districts.
- So this is simply creating a path for it. This is not allowing it as a by-right use in the residential
- districts It's only in the mixed-use districts that it would be allowed by right So we're just proposing
- this as a possible use amendment or use amendment to the use table And so kind of with that overview,
- I'm happy to answer any questions You know, like I said, nothing has changed from the staff's
- Perspective since last time it was heard at council Thank you Councilmember questions, I also want to
- acknowledge that there was an amendment a further amendment in a packet addendum earlier this week if
- the sponsor of that amendment would like to introduce it No councilmember questions right now
- Yes we're in councilmember questions. Councilmember Piedmont Smith Mr. Gorlick could you summarize the
- differences between an addition to the teaching and the conditional use. I mean the accessory use. Could
- you summarize the difference between urban ag commercial
- and urban ag non commercial that which we already have. Yeah absolutely. So when when we looked
- at introducing this use you know we certainly recognize that there was already an existing use within
- the zoning zoning code.
- Urban agriculture non-commercial and so that use was put in the zoning code a long time ago and basically
- While there isn't wasn't anything in the udio that really prohibited Garden plots from occurring within
- neighborhoods or areas where you were just simply growing produce for your use or You know garden plots
- that neighbors when the community shared we certainly wanted to promote the that
- Presence or that use or that encouragement of the use within the UDO and so that use was allowed urban
- agriculture non-commercial But it came with it certain limitations in terms of the amount or the times
- that you can sell From a property so it had a 180 day limit per calendar year so the urban agriculture
- commercial use
- does not have that limitation so you can sell from a property year round. So the intention here was
- to create a use that had slightly increased usability of a property in terms of being able to teach
- on a property being able to sell year round slightly different or increase in amount of greenhouses
- or hoop houses that could occur with on a property. So I would say kind of those are those are the main
- differences between
- Urban agriculture commercial and urban agriculture non-commercial. It's just the expanded uses that
- can happen to a higher standard and then the year-round sale of selling of produce May I ask a follow-up?
- Yeah, I do want to note that in the amendment last time it did change names from urban agriculture commercial
- to urban agriculture farmstead so to not confuse the public that is the current Proposal
- So in the urban agriculture farmstead are the setbacks less The setbacks requirement from the property
- line. Are they less than? In the urban ag non-commercial, are they the same? No, the setbacks didn't
- change There is an increased height of five feet That is allowed for greenhouses or hoop houses
- But again, you know that that height brings it up to the 20-foot which is the same height of accessory
- structures within those residential districts Thank you, thank you are there other questions from council
- members comes up Aralo Yeah to drill down a little bit more so as a If implemented you
- office would Do site inspection potentially if there were to be Violations So yes, in other words if
- there's a 25 foot tall hoop house You're alerted you come out and you say no, this is not this is prohibited.
- You're a lot of 20 If you're growing
- 360 days a year in a hoop house. How would you? regulate that I mean, how would you know if Someone
- is growing Something Greens in a hoop house and selling them to your neighbors you would you even know?
- Well, so you know growing produce, you know the amount of time per year is not regulated in any capacity
- No, no, I mean for sale
- Okay, so yeah, so for the use urban agriculture non-commercial it has a hundred and eighty day limit
- so, you know this would that certainly that can be a little bit challenging, you know, we would have
- to have a Evidence that shows that this has been occurring Beyond that 180 days, you know, this is not
- something that we've we've dealt with honestly of anybody complaining or a situation where this is happening
- to be honest, but it could be happening and
- in terms of a violation or even happening and we're just not aware of it, you know, most of the neighborhood
- areas with that have Garden plots or can I have community garden areas? You know there I to my knowledge.
- Honestly, I don't know that they're selling anything from them Yeah So I'm going through each of each
- one of these trying to distinguish whether or not it's enforceable whether or not it is you know
- The ambiguity is to me For so for instance three employees and allowance for three three employees outside.
- Well Right now you can hire people to do yard work for you and that you're not limited for three people
- You could have a crew of five people come and there's no time limitation. You can have them come every
- day for that matter and work You know the students obviously that might be something that would be
- I suppose enforceable I just I guess I what I'm saying is that this I I see that the as councilmember
- Piedmont Smith was I think implying is that the current code allows Growing and commercial sale of your
- produce at this point now only 180 days a year, but who's to say
- What we're really talking about are the structures. It does, I guess the intensity of use is, I see
- the difficulty you're undergoing here, and you're trying to, and I appreciate what you've done to try
- to bring some kind of logic to this, but I don't see a big difference between the current and the proposed,
- except when it comes to the intensity of use of students.
- and then the structural changes.
- Is that fair to say yes and the residential districts, you know that that is the main change Your the
- main differences between the non-commercial and the farmstead or the homestead Use that we're proposing
- would be those two elements because you know that well that was the main thing I mean one of the main
- things that we were encountering challenges with that we had heard that wanted restrictions lifted a
- little bit or changes made within the zoning code to allow a little bit more expansion for
- For that use yeah Okay, could it I have another question, but shall I wait? Okay, why don't we wait
- until around to to see if anybody else has any questions other councilmember questions because members are
- Could you speak to us a little bit about the BZA process? I know that that's not what we're voting on.
- I know that that's not controlled by the UDO. But can you distinguish, because this is a conditional
- use, between what's being permitted, allowed, and then what needs to go through BZA, and explain a little
- bit about how those two, like what governs the BZA's decisions?
- you know, what enforcement capabilities does BZA have, how does the conditional permit actually work,
- those type of things.
- Yeah, absolutely great great question So within the zoning code you have you see have a list of permitted
- uses that can occur within any zoning districts So those are things that are just allowed by right You
- don't need approval from those from any boards or commissions or your neighbors And then you also have
- certain conditional uses within zoning districts. So those are uses that are evaluated on a situational
- basis where the board looks at what the criteria are in the zoning code for conditional uses so those
- are basically
- You know, general compliance criteria that are listed, so compliance with the UDO, compliance with any
- other applicable regulations that might pertain to a specific use, compliance with utility service and
- improvement standards, and then compliance with any prior approvals. And then in addition for conditional
- uses, you have a consistency with the comprehensive plan and any other applicable plans, evaluation
- of ability to provide adequate public services
- facilities evaluation of any impacts on any adverse impacts and then minimizing or mitigating any of
- those adverse impacts.
- And then any sort of a rational phasing plan that might pertain to it So the the Board of Zoning Appeals
- looks at those criteria They look at that proposed use they make findings based on those criteria and
- then make a judgment So it's situational. It's locational based So in general, you know, you look at
- is this conditional use is this use appropriate at this location based on this criteria? And then the
- board makes a finding
- Thank you. Other questions? Um, should we go to Councilman back to Councilmember Rallo and then back
- to Councilmember? Sorry. I'm sorry. Ask the question that I was going to. Perfect.
- The follow-up question we didn't fully address, which is, you know, we've talked a lot about enforcement
- mechanisms, but through the lens of planning, does BZA have some type of an enforcement mechanism like
- where they can remove a conditional use permit?
- So that is not something that is built into the zoning code and we have never revoked a Conditional
- use or a variance. I'm not saying that it's impossible You know, that's something that we would have
- to lean on the legal department very heavily in terms of going to that length You know it
- Conditional use process evaluates a property and is that use appropriate there? and so it shouldn't
- be one of those things where you know a can a use whether it's a Church or a school or whatever
- is appropriate this year But next year, you know a church or a school or whatever the thing isn't appropriate
- You know if there are restrictions within the UDO for instance you specific or any development centers
- that they are not meeting You know that's dealt with separately
- You know for whatever that that infraction might be but anything that is in the udio whether to use
- specific or development standards is always enforceable by the planning department and We spend hours
- a day We have an enforcement staff that are working. I don't want to say non-stop but from eight to
- five on Enforcement issues throughout the city on on a regular basis. So we pursue enforcement all the
- time and we pursue fines all the time and
- You know, that is something we deal with on a daily basis Awesome. Thank you Thank you other councilmember
- questions Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, um some members of the public have described this proposal
- as spot zoning How would you respond to that?
- Yep. So spot zoning obviously is giving one property specific zoning allowances that nothing else around
- there has. So you are you are zoning one property for one zoning district that is vastly different than
- everything else around there. So this is not that you know this applies to every single property in the city.
- So as we propose it right now, it is a conditional accessory use in every residential district It's
- a permitted use in every mixed-use district. So it's it's not giving a special allowance for any one
- property It's giving allowance for every property within this city. So it's it's definitely not spots
- up May I ask a follow-up Have you has the Planning and Transportation Department been approached by
- any other? property owners who would like to do the things that this proposal would allow and
- So it sounds like you are referencing a specific person who is interested in pursuing this we have heard
- from other members of the community That they are interested in this Thank you, thank you other councilmember questions
- Okay seeing none let's go ahead and go to public comment on ordinance 2025 32 as amended last time If
- you're a member of the public who would like to make a public comment regarding this amended ordinance
- if you're in chambers You can make your way to the podium Sign in introduce yourself for the record
- and then you'll have up to three minutes. If you're online, you can go ahead and raise your hand Is
- there anybody wishing to make a public comment I
- Somebody's got to go first. Go ahead and step up please make sure to sign in state your name for the
- record and then you'll have up to three minutes. My name is Kathy Barry as the daughter of a small business
- owner. I believe that small often family owned businesses of all kinds
- contribute to Bloomington's economic and social health. No one devotes their precious time to start
- any business unless they feel they can make a useful and meaningful change in the world while they earn
- a living. Since the plan committee mission the plan commission meeting on August 11th I have steadily
- thought about various aspects of ordinance 20 25 32 to be sure I can sincerely and with goodwill say
- it is not needed.
- Recently I was reminded that the business entity defined as commercial agriculture or farmstead could
- be viewed as part of the compact urban form theory in favor with many city decision makers. As I understand
- it I oppose compact urban form. For example in 2020 I wrote to the Common Council expressing my opposition
- to ending guarantees for single family zoning.
- To those who are convinced of the benefits of densification, I ask you to consider that it may be more
- important to uphold the limitations and the provisions of the existing urban agriculture, non-commercial
- and home occupation uses. On April 10th, 2024, a home occupation permit was granted to a family whose
- business model was teaching swimming and water safety to young children.
- As a courtesy to their neighbors the business owners arrange to have their teaching pool installed in
- their basement. No matter how dense and walkable Bloomington may be don't working people deserve to
- arrive at home and not become unwilling audiences and partners to outdoor displays promotions and outdoor
- lecture venues. I say yes.
- Even limits on hours for audible and visible compensated business activities, whether for profit or
- not per profit, create restricted and uncompensated limits on hours of residential peace and quiet.
- While some of Bloomington's largest, with some of Bloomington's largest and most growing employers running
- 24 hour work cycles, how could such limits be decided fairly?
- When I came home from work, there was great renewal for me to see my neighbors of all ages and their
- pets and toys and games, to hear their voices together with the voices of birds and other wildlife lifted
- up in the rhythm of family and home life. When I walk around Bloomington, I see lots of gardening and
- other evidence of sustainable living. I believe these practices, which used to be called permaculture,
- are firmly established so that no provisions or conditions as added
- ordinance 20 2025 32 are needed. Thank you for listening and please vote no Thank you, I see somebody
- else moving in chambers as any any hands raised on zoom Okay, we'll take one more in chambers first
- and then we'll take one from zoom. Please make sure that you sign go ahead sir Make sure that you sign
- in there for the record and then state your name and you'll have up to three minutes. I
- My name is Jeff steak. I thank you for the opportunity to talk to you today I want to start just by
- saying that I'm not against mixed uses or those sorts of planning things at all They can be great actually
- mixed use neighborhoods if they're planned appropriately The Plan Commission has launched a missile
- to kill a mouse here. This is not a slight change maybe the zoning ordinance should be a
- to allow more teaching of Girl Scouts in various locations. Somehow that became a rationale for allowing
- commercial activities in residential areas. You are the last hope for stopping this destructive missile.
- From its beginning, zoning has advanced health safety and general welfare by protecting residential
- areas from business activities. And still today,
- The importance of protecting property values is reflected in the UDO, which specifically refers to protecting
- property values. People have invested their hard earned money relying on zoning to protect their property,
- happiness, expectations. Please listen to the neighbors who are complaining. They are the people with
- their happiness, their harmonious living, and their economic security at stake.
- They are the ones who have relied on the city to protect them from uses that create negative externalities
- in this case from Commercial uses I've seen it. I would not want to live there. It's a terrible place
- for a commercial pod It's not a slight increase the century old line between commercial and residential
- uses has been relatively easy for cities to enforce a
- Adopting this amendment will make it much harder for this city to hold the line people who want Commercial
- finding arts of farming. Sorry will find it much easier to bring plausible lawsuits when the BZA Denies
- a commercial farm use if this new path is in the ordinance This commercial farming is not needed in
- Bloomington commercial farming will do little good if it's adopted
- This city and it will do much harm. It will reduce surrounding property values It will cause neighborhood
- strife. It already has it will undermine faith in and reliance on the government Please reject this
- proposal and build a better mousetrap for educating the Girl Scouts. Thank you
- Thank you. Let's go ahead and go to a Zoom participant. If there's anybody else in chambers who'd like
- to speak, you can make your way closer to the podium. While we're hearing from our Zoom person, when
- you're unmuted, you can go ahead and state your name for the record, and then you'll have up to three
- minutes. Hello. My name is Nancy Goswami, and I am here in support of urban residential farming.
- And I just want to say that urban residential farming, backyard farming in various forms represents
- a more sustainable, ecological alternative to these big conventional farms that contribute, negatively
- contribute to and
- Our climate change and tropical deforestation and the creation of dead zones in the oceans. While urban
- residential farming supports biodiversity and environmental responsibility.
- In recent decades, there's been a push to address hunger and food insecurity, which has led to the rise
- of a variety of urban farming, residential type of farming practices. And they provide reliable, nutritious
- food for everyone, closer to places where people live and work, and actually allows the reduction of
- carbon footprint by
- growing food closer to where people are eating. Also too, another thing that is very important is the
- various for styles of urban farming with
- supporting them, we can take back control of our food sources. In doing so, we can wrestle power away
- from corporations and political forces that seek to manipulate access to food, as evidenced by the recent
- defunding of our SNAP benefits. And this is a prime example of how food access can be used as a political
- tool, holding all of us hostage, ultimately leaving people vulnerable to hunger and hardship.
- Lastly, I think a variety of.
- types of farming, including urban residential farming and backyard farming. Plot farming creates pathways
- for future generations to gain practical skills in food production. Life skills that will be vital as
- climate change brings new challenges. When people learn how to plant, maintain, and harvest their own
- food, they gain a sense of agency and responsibility that will serve them and society in the future.
- More control of our food sources is power and creating
- a more resilient and sustainable future for all. And just want to briefly mention that I am one of the
- neighbors of the people that this involves. And I admire what they're doing. And I think that it has
- incentivized me to learn how to grow some of my own food. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else
- in chambers who would like to make a comment?
- Thank you we'll take another in chambers and then we'll go back to assume if you could make sure to
- state your name for the record please sign in there and then you'll have up to three minutes. I'm Constance
- Glenn. Can you hear me. So I like Nancy also a proponent of urban agriculture but not urban commercial
- agriculture.
- I'd like to add one person you haven't heard from is Kelly Walsh, who is another homeowner on Brooks,
- the son of our dearly departed Mike Walsh. He's also in favor of gardening and opposed to commercialization
- of it within a neighborhood. I want to clarify some misperceptions. We've been concerned about traffic
- and safety from the very beginning. And I want to restate that Covenanter
- At certain times of the day, very busy and Brooks is a narrow and dead end street that is not a full
- two lanes. Purposely adding traffic seems foolhardy and dangerous. The hoops at 20 feet are one thing,
- but 50% of the property is
- a huge increase, it's 25% more than originally, and that was something Mr. Grulick didn't reference.
- Doubles the size, so you could have a 100-foot hoop house. We've also been concerned about the assault
- on the character of the neighborhood, and we've spoken with several realtors, and we've been told the
- street is less likely to be desirable. I mean, it's all hypothetical. Its dynamic is likely to change
- completely, and the infrastructure does not support
- this proposal. We know that from Mr. Grulig that there are many inspectors. I sent him a question in
- July in which I asked about safety measures for children or students on the property.
- Beyond and he told me that there would be nothing from the city beyond what was put in place by the
- Health Department I found this to be really Discouraging and frightening that we would put anything
- into place that said that the city didn't care about the safety of children He told me that Ellie would
- be enforcing this if it were the property that is right next door to us It's a pretty clear message
- that children could be in danger on that property
- We've also heard from members of the city that the city doesn't do enforcement very well It's our observation
- that there were numerous property violations that were cited in 21 24 and not enforced until 25 It seems
- the city does not do enforcement very well I'm sure some of us are concerned about instituting a neighbor
- against neighbor policy, which we heard at the last council meeting I've
- I work in music and peace and reconciliation. This is so much anathema to me. I'm very, very worried
- about it. And like Jeff, I'm concerned that opening the door in this way for zoning change can result
- in some very negative things. We appreciate your work on behalf of the city, its neighborhoods, and
- its harmony. And we ask you to vote against it. Thank you so much. Thank you.
- Let's go ahead and go back to Zoom. When you're unmuted, you can state your name for the record and
- then you'll have up to three minutes. Hi, my name is Ellie Spear. This does not make sense. This is
- not about an individual family. This is about the people who are actually not in the room looking at
- you tonight. This is for
- the students, the teachers, the parents who are all in bed right now, who don't have the time nor the
- accessibility to drive, take a bus, take half the day to go learn. This is for our future generations,
- not the current generations. We need to take the chance, innovation,
- comes by taking chances. Creating solutions is by taking chances. Do not be scared. Take a chance on
- removing barriers, seeing what happens. There's the checks and balances in there. We can figure this
- out as a community. Thank you very much. Thank you.
- Are there other public commenters in chambers? All right, I see somebody moving do we have any other
- hands raised on zoom now Okay, so we'll take this one in chambers, please sign in state your name for
- the record and then you'll have up to three minutes And then after this we'll go back to zoom My name
- is James Glenn
- I live on South Brooks and hopefully not going to read because all I have is bullet points. And the
- first thing I want to talk about was process and I was wondering why an amendment showed up today in
- the packet that we didn't have a chance to look at very often. And then I heard things about from the
- other product the other amendments from the from the city.
- from the naming district about a public meeting, and we would have loved to have a public meeting. Nothing
- like that ever occurred for this particular thing. To reinforce lack of enforcement, not lack of enforcement,
- but having neighbors have to talk to the city about other neighbors is not what we intended.
- and not what we've done, actually. We've never complained. We've just asked for clarifications. The
- current UDO allows for urban gardening. It allows for all of this stuff. You can have hoop houses. They're
- just not 20 feet tall, but they are 15 feet tall. In terms of education, we're all for gardening and
- urban education.
- There are other ways to educate with greater impact and less carbon footprint. We mentioned last time
- that there's an organization called the Indiana Farm to School Program that is operating right now in
- Ellitsville, where they come to the schools. The students grow their own produce at the school, eat
- it for lunch. You can reach more students this way. You can reach students that can't get to the other
- side of town.
- unless you put them all on a big school bus and disrupt their classroom for the day and bring them into
- one place and then take them back. If they're out there at their school every day, they can watch their
- produce grow. And it's much less carbon footprint for somebody to come and instruct them than for all
- of them to come to a specific property. Much less disruptive. The one thing I wanted to mention about
- right of way,
- Mr. Grulick said was not changed. There was an amendment that changed the right-of-way on the street
- side to five feet And I'm not sure what right-of-way means here. Is it the street or the property line
- or the easement? That has not been explained to me And oh and well other thing that has not been addressed
- that we asked about before that I haven't gotten a clear answer on is what about
- Taxes with these properties be taxed as commercial properties. Will they lose their homestead credit?
- Is water use billed at a different rate because they're Using it as a farm irrigation Think thank you.
- That's my hit all my bullet points. It's amazing. Thanks so much. I appreciate what you're doing Let's
- go ahead and move to zoom When you're unmuted you can state your name for the record and you'll have
- up to three minutes
- Is that me, Glenn Gass? I'm sorry, what? I'm Glenn Gass. I don't know if I'm next. Yep, you're unmuted.
- Go ahead. Oh, I am. OK, I'll be brief. A lot of you are sick of me already, but this just seems like
- a uniquely wrong
- to make these kind of decisions on I don't know I don't know what to say you know Matt Austin last week
- or at the last meeting said he had names from all over the city that were in support of this but and
- said the only people that were not were
- the neighbors on Covenanter and Brooks. Well, right. Not in my backyard, maybe kind of a negative thing,
- but it's also true. Really, do you want this? Do you want to open this store? Do you want more meetings
- like this? I can't imagine it. So anyway, we really want to support
- the immediate neighbors who, you know, I've read a letter from the deputy mayor a couple of times already,
- so I won't read it again, but saying that the immediate neighbors are the ones that really matter. So
- I just really hope that's true and really appreciate your support. That's all. Thank you. Is there anybody
- else in chambers? Make your way to the podium. Just step on up. Has anybody else raised a hand on Zoom? Okay.
- So we'll go here and chamber. No, go ahead. When you get over here, go ahead and sign in again and then
- state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes and then we'll go back to Zoom after
- this comment. So I have given you a couple of rather long written presentations. Can you state your
- name again? Oh, it's Sarah Jane Hughes.
- And I am a neighbor and I live between the Goswami family on Hills not hillside more spike and the rest
- of Brooks. I think it's really important to think about the issues that have come up tonight that are
- somewhat different from those that you've heard before and I would like to address those rather than
- the contents of my letter, which I assume is already in the record. First, Mr. Graylick has told us
- that the city has never revoked
- either a conditional use or a variance. So the idea that something will go away is not gonna happen
- in a particular case. Once allowed and then gone through the conditional use purpose, it's gonna stick.
- It will also stick with the property should that property ever be sold. So this is a long-term thing
- as Ms. Spears mentioned. We have questioned repeatedly the available resources for enforcing
- the zoning period in town. I'm very sad that I have to bring that up again but I still don't hear the
- commitment to enforcing the rules and particularly a conditional use. There are a lot of adverse implications
- from this project. They are situational.
- And and I still think it's fair to call it a project as opposed to a real zone So I disagree with mr.
- Grelick that this is not spot zoning dressed up as something else as our other neighbor Dan Conkle who
- has not yet joined us this evening has once said at least to the Planning Commission if not to you the
- quality of place is a subject that came up with the matter that I
- President Sossberg was advocating and I agree with the people who were talking about quality of place
- in Specific I will now direct your attention to the conditional use definition that's in the packet
- and the conditional use definition speaks about this essentially being something that is Subsidiary
- to the actual use which is a residential neighborhood. It's a stead It's a homestead
- It's a farmstead. I don't care what kind of stead it is. It has a residential flavor with a very innovative
- house built on it in the not distant past. It is extremely important to differentiate between what is
- good zoning and policy and the remarkable altruism that Ellie Spear and her brother keep bringing up.
- I love them for that.
- But I don't think this is the right decision for the city. And I think if you look at the conditional
- uses, which talk about situational appropriateness and the fundamental residential quality, you will
- see that this that despite the work the president Stossberg and Councilman Asari have done on this recently,
- we still have a long way to go. And I urge you to vote no, because this is not ready for prime time.
- Thank you. We'll go back to Zoom, right? I have another Zoom comment. Wonderful. When you're unmuted,
- you can go ahead and state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes. Hi, my
- name is Jamie Scholl. I am a commissioner on the Bloomington Commission for Sustainability. I am also
- someone who grows and sells plants locally and would like to
- I first want to say thank you to all the council members who spent a number of minutes and sometimes
- hours talking to me about this. I appreciate that. I appreciate the changes with the amendment as well.
- I do feel heard, so thank you. There are some things still that I do think could be improved on this.
- Some could be the home base vendor to just refer to what the state has rather than having it be more
- strict. How we define agriculture is very interesting because what falls would typically fall underneath
- agriculture would also be orchard, vineyards, not just annual crops, which would be row crops, but what
- of forest gardens.
- So that can include a native forest garden could be the entire property because those are trees and
- plants that would already be here such as a black walnut elderberry black raspberries and then those
- can be cultivated. I would also like to bring in the thought that when you're doing the sales this is
- directly related to to me.
- the resilience of our community in dealing with what's going on with SNAP right now. Many think our
- food system is broken. It needs to be reformed. When we grow things and have in our neighborhoods, which
- would not necessarily apply to HOA, so there's a small amount of land in the city that this would apply to,
- We need to think about food sovereignty and our local food resilience in a whole system. I would have
- liked to have seen a process and public meetings where we could have all discussed this because I think
- we all do want to have a thriving community where everyone is well fed and can support small businesses
- which can be agricultural in nature.
- So I just wanted to say those things and thank everyone who has been involved in this. Thank you. Is
- there anybody else in chambers who would like to make a public comment? Are there any other hands raised
- on Zoom? Okay, let's go ahead and go to Zoom again. Please state your name for the record and then you'll
- have up to three minutes. Hi, Paul Russo again. I strongly agree with everything that Jamie Scholl just
- said. I would only add that changes can often be disturbing.
- But we're in for a lot of changes that most people don't realize. The climate crisis is a lot worse
- than most people realize, and that's going to strongly affect our food systems. And so it's better that
- we make changes now and get ahead of the curve. I mean, for example, Dr. James Hansen, who's one of
- the first people to alert the world about climate change, has been writing papers for the last 10 years
- trying to get people to listen to the fact that the
- Amount of global warming that's going to happen is actually twice what the international consensus is.
- So you wrap your head around that we're in we're in for at least three degrees of warming already.
- That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any more comments in council chambers. I see another person
- coming up. Go ahead and sign in state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes.
- Matthew Austin.
- Please vote yes on this. I agree with everything that mr. Russo said While this is a very restrictive
- Piece of legislation, especially with the new amendments It's better to take a step forward than to
- live in fear of what could be and live in anxiety because of the past So we need to move forward with
- society and stop living in the past
- Please vote yes, this is not about one property. This is about the entire community and the communities
- that will follow our lead in enacting legislation Just like this so put your foot down and please vote.
- Yes. Thank you Thank you, do we have any other zoom commenters Is there anybody else who wishes to make
- a comment here in chambers I
- Go ahead. We just need to be like really assertive here. Just stand up and do it Make sure that you
- sign in. Yep, state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes Hi, I'm Joshua
- Stockton, I didn't think I would speak on this issue tonight as I wasn't aware of it, but I Do understand
- I think this is NIMBY ism right to its core and
- And I there have been previous comments tonight about how some things some people are worried about
- increased traffic to their neighborhood. Increased people coming to their neighbors home. You are the
- target customer your your neighbors are growing vegetables and fruits and whatnot and they are trying
- to sell it to you. You can go to their door knock on their door instead of going to the grocery store.
- That is how we build community here in Bloomington And that's how we save our future and I'm Frankly
- tired of former generations Ruining my future. I'm 24 years old and this is what it's coming to like
- we are going to experience climate disasters which consists of flooding and droughts and
- We're sitting here complaining about your neighbors growing vegetables and selling it like in what reality
- are we living in because it's not the same and I just I do understand why it's an issue. I mean property
- values whatnot blah blah blah, but it's just So absurd that we have so many people coming here to complain
- about a non-issue We have so many more issues in this city other than who's growing vegetables and selling them
- out of their backyard and teaching their neighbors how to do it. So with that, thanks for listening.
- Thank you. Has anybody raised a hand on Zoom? Anybody else in chamber? You really got to stand up and
- be like direct if you're here in chambers and you would like to make a comment and I see somebody else
- coming up. So go ahead and sign in, state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three
- minutes. I am
- Austin. Notice that last name. Austin. Thank you. Matt Austin. Ellie Spear is my daughter. I am a master
- gardener. I was an educator for 34 years in the schools of Bloomington. I believe in teaching. I believe
- in learning. Now, if someone goes to the Spear House or any other, we're not just talking about the
- Spears. We're talking about many urban
- neighborhoods and if someone goes to them and said how did you grow that fig tree. The Spears at their
- property or maybe any of the other properties that want to avail themselves to this can't or they were
- told cease and desist education outside and inside. They can't help their neighbors. They can't educate them.
- So I want to say something. I've sent all of you something from the community garden post. Is that what
- it is? Orchard. They say, shout out to Ellie Spear and Matt Arston and Garden Quest for all the important
- work that they are doing at the community orchard and around the community.
- And then I sent the all the council members a video. They got an item grant. You know what item is Indiana
- Department of Education environmental management. And that was to teach how to take care of food waste.
- The city of Bloomington helped this group.
- also to do food waste at one of our festivals, what was that? The Taste of Bloomington. It wasn't, and
- they saved thousands of pounds of food waste which did not go to the dump and did not incur extra carbon
- into our environment and they were able to in a small way because they're a small group. But that all
- has to do with education and they can educate teach people how to take care of their grounds. People
- can see it in a residential neighborhood and then
- The reason why most of this commercial happens is because they've got a nonprofit. But I shouldn't be
- talking about just the Spear property. Thank you. Your time is up. Thank you so much. Thank you.
- All right. Is there anybody else in chambers who would like to make a public comment? I don't see anybody
- else moving. Anybody raised a hand on Zoom? OK.
- Let's go ahead and revert to council members now Are there any I guess first of all, are there any questions
- that any of the public comments have brought up for anybody? Councilmember Rallo Yeah, let's I feel
- like probably we should it's appropriate to have another round of questions before we go to councilmember
- comment So this is for Eric relic So how did you come to the determination? I know this is kind of
- fine-grained, but of a 20-foot tall hoop house I Used to farm I had I had one that was 10 foot tall
- adequate for me I
- 20-foot sounds like something you put a tractor through is that was that the consideration? Well, yeah,
- so it wasn't exactly, you know a hoop house can be taller but when we were looking at the urban agriculture
- non-commercial limitations and then the urban agriculture farmstead Limitations or you know rules to
- put in place for that, you know If we're trying to allow for a little bit greater capacity And I think
- we did hear from one member of this public a few weeks ago that talked about the challenges of smaller
- greenhouse
- And the heat effect that it creates within it makes it a lot harder to grow in there But in essence
- we were looking at it more from the accessory structure height in these district is 20 feet So we were
- just matching that allowance. It's already in the udio now for accessory structures within those residential
- districts Do other accessory structures are they made of plastic?
- No, they can't be right accessory structures have to be made of a material that's allowed in the district
- or Comparable, so there are a lot higher standards in terms of what they can be made. Yeah, I guess
- I guess the One contention is hoop houses are plastic. So you have a large plastic structure in the
- backyard I know, you know, we we regulate accessory structures that that is a difference so
- The 50% allowance property to be farmed is that excluding the house the driveway
- No, so it would be just the size of the size of and so it's allowing so as you're as you're aware, you
- know in Residential districts for accessory structures. You have a maximum footprint maximum size of
- that. Yeah And so this was just giving a greater allowance because you know some of those sizes structure
- It can be very limiting in terms of what's trying to be accomplished or what we're trying to enable
- and promote And right now it's 25 percent. Is that right? After I said, what's the allowance right now 25? Oh
- This isn't a this is an increase to 50. Is that well so the what I was looking at or what we were looking
- at really is when you look at the non-commercial limitation and the amount Properly that can be taken
- up by that. It was an increase from that About I think 15 percent. Let me look at that real quick Okay,
- it's yes about 25. Yeah, so 25 percent Okay, so 25 percent to 50 and
- so So say I'm using 25% I mean Miss Schultz talked about perennial shrubs and trees, so I've got say
- a little orchard and Now can I plant a garden if it exceeds? Yes, and you know this this percentage
- is not dealing with how much of your property you can grow crops on it's dealing with the structures
- on that property
- Yeah, so okay, right. So okay, so the shrubs are outside the structures obviously, so okay. So I guess
- I'm trying to, what I'm trying to do is wrestle with this. You said earlier that this was the employee
- number and the student number are restrictions, but they're in a sense allowances. I'm trying to decipher
- this because right now,
- out of unlimited employees come so right now you're restricting it to three well so so in terms of number
- of employees there in residential districts there are no employees that are allowed at all
- So even with a home occupation, you're allowed you're allowed to have an employee You can have I think
- one employee but in a residential district There's there's no allowance for you to have employees at
- your house. Certainly you can hire people You know as we talked about, you know last time to come do
- landscaping or wash your windows or clean your house or whatever But you know, they're not there on
- a daily basis. So it's kind of a so you're saying a business with a payroll and
- You're limited to three employees. So so with this use, you know as you would you could be having these
- people there all day long Every single day of the week. This is a different thing than somebody that
- comes to your house for an hour cleans it leaves Yeah, okay. I'm just Okay, that's great. That's good
- distinction and then the What so the 360 days a year? From 180 days
- for growing So that would just be this cell so, you know, you're you're limited for the non-commercial
- You're limited to 180 days that you can have your farm stand or whatever out there or selling from your
- house So with this again, we were just trying to raise the allowances and so we're looking at year-round
- allowance for that Yeah, so that was motivated by what request growing winter crops growing
- well again just kind of looking at it from a perspective of you know here is a non-commercial
- Use and the limitations to go along with that if we're trying to give greater allowances For an additional
- use for the farmstead use, you know What are the things that could you know, maybe give a greater allowance
- and enable that to have a little bit better impact? You know better for worse, but you know, these are
- like said these are just standards that we proposed Yeah, you know, there's not a science to you know,
- the 50% or the year-round sales but you know a series of things that we can do to make this use a little bit more
- Allowing in terms of that occurring on the property Yeah, it's just so we've got timing. We've got students.
- We've got structures. We've got employees There's a lot Happening here. Did you think about doing it?
- Maybe incrementally like let's have Let's let's take the current use which I think has an adequate allowance
- for income to be realized people are doing it and
- And then adding one one use as opposed to a palette of things Or did you consider well, I'll leave it
- at that Well, I mean, I guess I will say, you know We did we did dial it back from the first plane commission
- hearing to the second plane commission hearing in terms of employees and number of customers so,
- you know, we did bring that standard down and
- In terms of that allowance between the two Plaint Commission hearings, but you know, I guess to get
- to your question. No, we did not look at you know, we were just coming out of the gate with a series
- of Allowances or restrictions proposals to include with this obviously the council has the ability to
- do amendments to modify any of those if they so choose this is just
- Kind of what we were bringing out as a starting point for discussion of standards that we felt were
- small incremental increases for this use that was to be a small Advancement of that initial use motive
- motivated by the Spears because this is where it originated Well, we looked at it from as I mentioned
- the comprehensive paint comprehensive plan in a climate action plan that both encourage multiple instances
- within there to look at a
- enabling more of this use within the zoning code. Certainly as we did have a specific situation that
- was in front of us of a user and we looked at that of, okay, what could be appropriate, we also looked
- at that from a ratio perspective of any property in Bloomington. So that's why these things are based
- on the lot size of you have a lot of one, you know, of that zoning district, you get one employee per
- that lot and X number of customers.
- Your lot size goes up that proportion of people is proportional and appropriate to the size of lot So
- bigger lots more people is appropriate and is not as impactive because you're spread out over a larger
- area Okay, thanks appreciate it other questions comes member Piedmont Smith Yes, one of the public commenters
- I think it was mr. Glenn was asking about a change in the setback requirement of
- And I had asked mr. Grulick earlier and he said there were no changes. So Maybe it was in the amendment
- that councilmember Stossberg brought Yes, thank you. I'm glad for a chance to clarify this So that five
- foot step setback from the right-of-way is specifically for agricultural stands not for other structures
- So currently the way it is right now in the non-commercial agricultural stands in for non-commercial urban
- Agriculture do not need to have any Setback at all. So if somebody and and once again, that's like permitted
- right in all of these districts So if somebody wanted to grow things and then sell them from an agricultural
- stand they could set up that agricultural stand like right next to the sidewalk like with no gap between
- the sidewalk and their stand and The way that it was originally written in this proposal. It was written
- the same way and
- But because of the greater allowance of people potentially selling from agricultural stands 365 days
- a year as opposed to only 180 days a year, I thought I at least want there to be some setback from that
- right of way because there could be the potential of a more permanent agricultural stand set up somewhere.
- So that is where the five foot comes from. It takes a zero setback and adds five feet to it.
- It doesn't adjust setbacks for greenhouses or hoop houses or anything else. And similarly, it doesn't,
- agricultural stands still need to be 10 foot from abutting lots. So it's a zero setback from that sidewalk
- or that roadway, but it's a 10 foot setback from your neighbor. So I hope that that clarifies.
- And just to kind of supplement that a little bit for just accessory structures in the UDO There's only
- a five foot setback from side and rear property line. So both urban agricultural Standards have a greater
- setback built into them for these structures from adjacent property lines Sorry, that's me again, are
- there other questions from council members comes member daily At
- Mr. Glenn brought up another good question that that got me wondering he brought up the the tax question
- So since this is going to be a commercial use on the property, how do you know? I have no idea. The
- Planning Department is not involved with that. That's the county assessor and orders office Okay, thanks
- other questions comes number. Sorry. I
- Thank you for your patience and long suffering here. And to all of you as well, thank you. Maybe bring
- us back to a thread that we were pulling when we first started this conversation. And would you say
- that it's accurate that the primary intent of this ordinance is to clarify that educational activities
- related to urban agriculture may occur outdoors?
- Yes, so I would say the two things that this is kind of accomplishing is a greater allowance for outdoor
- activities for education And then the year-round sales, I would say those probably the two
- biggest differences I mean obviously we've talked a little bit about you know additional structures
- Capabilities in terms of height and amount of the property that can be devoted but really, you know,
- this is this is dealing with use and
- You know that's what planning and land use does is regulate uses on the property so this is giving allowing
- a path for this use that has a little bit greater capacity to offer services on a property and and then
- I think sort of then if we think about this in terms of necessity and proportionality like why why change
- this here and not somewhere else right I mean we we could
- put outdoor teaching and regulate it through existing provisions on noise on gatherings traffic parking.
- Why regulate it here. Yep. So as I mentioned kind of at the beginning of the proposal you know the benefit
- with defining it as a specific use is you can have very specific use specific limitations on it.
- So all of the things that we've got here in these operational standards and the structure heights that
- give greater Requirements or prohibitions or restrictions that can only be accomplished through these
- you specific standards So, you know one of the things that's very important in planning and zoning is
- to provide a somewhat predictable path and uniform fair treatment for folks So, you know what the limitations
- are coming into it, you know, you can see the use specific limitations and
- You know as opposed to you know, I'm going to the board I have no idea what conditions of approval might
- be slapped on me You know this provides a clear predictable path, right? And then and then just I mean
- to address the we've had a lot of comments on how this is actually about food security and about food
- sovereignty and about food ecosystems what activities are are permitted under these changes that were not
- previously permitted in other portions of code. And to be more specific, do you view this as affecting
- food systems, food security, food sovereignty?
- So your first question there, the biggest difference really is the outdoor education component.
- You know, that's one of the main differences and the teaching. I mean, those are the two things,
- you know, and so your second question, food sovereignty, yes, I mean, this is enabling more members
- of the population to have a skill to provide for themselves. And through the teaching of like being
- able to learn about how to plant and grow and harvest, right? Yeah.
- Thank you. Are there other councilmember questions? Okay, go ahead and do your follow-up then councilmember.
- Sorry Why then Why not just allow urban agriculture and farm stands as of as a sort of right?
- That's a great question, and obviously that is something that the council, if they feel would be more
- appropriate, because they're only changed, we were approaching this from a little bit more of a conservative
- approach of allowing it as a conditional use so that there is still a process that somebody has to go
- through to make sure that that use is still appropriate at a location. And the benefit with having the
- use specific for standards is
- You have specific things to evaluate on besides some of the very subjective general compliance criteria
- that I talked about and the comprehensive plan. Going through and having these very objective standards
- helps the board, helps members of the public, helps the staff know what the clear guidelines are that
- they're being evaluated on and helps them meet that and then also provides a lot clearer ability for
- us to enforce those.
- So having having this as a conditional accessory use like I said really creates kind of the more most
- conservative approach Certainly you could you could choose a different approach and allow this permitted
- By right, but wouldn't you agree that that approach then hinges on our ability to enforce?
- Enforce it. So if we are to accept that that's a that's the appropriate approach that we also are accepting
- our ability to enforce that approach I don't think either approach Affects our ability to enforce anything
- whether it's a conditional or permitted use you will have restrictions and we will we will always be
- able to enforce those Thank you Any other questions comes member Rallo So accessory structures
- Currently have a maximum footprint of what? It depends on the zoning district, you know So in the r4
- 400 square feet if it's the r3 580 if it's the r2 720 square or 840 square feet So it just depends on
- your zoning district and what your maximum accessory structure is it is it is it the case? I can't exceed
- 10% of the dwelling site
- No that that language that language is not okay So but it is it depends on the zoning district and yeah,
- it's variable in size. So but So to understand this you're proposing that a hoop house structure have
- a potential 50% Essentially
- Footprint of the of the of the property Yes, that was our that was our proposal So so if you have a
- quarter acre a lot which is about 11,000 square feet and you have a house and driveway and patio and
- so forth Maybe we have you know a 1,500 square foot home. Maybe you have a couple you have an accessory
- Structure you have driveway. Maybe it equals 3,000 square feet so you have
- 11,000 square feet you so we have 5,500 square feet potentially to put hoop houses on Yeah, so another
- another thing to keep in mind with this, you know is also the maximum impervious surface coverage allowance
- for property So, you know if you've got these structures and you've got some flooring to them, you know
- They count against your impervious surface cover so there's lots of things that really still come into
- play in regulating how much of these properties can't have these structures and
- You know, this is just looking at that number that allowance as as a whole There's still other things
- that are obviously going to come into play You know with the property as a whole that could limit what
- you can do for a hoop house or greenhouse anyway You know, it just depends on you know, the exact structure
- good. Could you tell me what that limit is? So in it depends again on the zoning district in the order
- in the r2 zoning district for instance I think your maximum previous surface coverage is 40 and
- Five percent. Give me just one second Forty percent is your maximum previous surface coverage in the
- r2 in the r3. I think it goes to 45 Okay, so I guess 140 45 is your maximum in the r3 interesting So
- you're probably never gonna get to the 50% You know if you've got a house on there, why did you put
- 50%? Well, because this was let's imagine you had a really small house. I
- And you had a big property and a significant portion of your property was devoted to this use then you
- could get there You know, there's so many puzzle pieces here that all have to fit together But it's
- probably unlikely anyone's ever going to get to the 50 but it's possible Okay Thank you, thank you are
- there other councilmember questions I
- Okay I would like to go to council member comment then at this point if there are no more questions.
- So if a council member would like to comment. Well I offered up moving the amendment earlier and the
- sponsor of the amendment decided not to move it. So yeah I kind of gave him a look a couple of times.
- Thank you fully fully capable of introducing. Yeah Moving on to councilmember comments. So if you are
- interested in making a comment now's the time I Know that I have a comment does that mean that I have
- the only comment that
- Councilmember Flaherty go ahead break the ice. Yeah, I can give a brief comment This first like I think
- that's what we're sorry was clarifying this to be very very clear Urban agriculture is and has been
- allowed in Bloomington That's not what's This ordinance is about Farm produce sales are also allowed
- the main substantive change here is related to outdoor educational activities and
- Also want to be clear that the comprehensive plan and climate action plan speak to urban agriculture
- in a handful of places. This ordinance, definitely not clear the, you could make an argument, but like
- I would say this ordinance is not advancing what the comprehensive plan and climate action plan say
- about urban agriculture, which is to allow it, which we do. So it's really kind of like been the wrong
- focus to some degree of like what this is about.
- And I think from where I sit, it's an odd approach. And I spoke to this some in our previous meeting.
- I think the two things that I would recommend if we were interested in these changes, and by we, I mean,
- if a council member wanted to lead this or if staff supported it and wanted to bring it, I'll just say
- the genesis of all this also seems very strange, but would be a text edit to the number 180, describing
- 180 days that are allowed for farm produce sales.
- We can change that number if we think that is unduly prohibitive. And then if we want to allow outdoor
- education as part of a home occupation, then we should change that. We shouldn't create new districts
- that are very bespoke and custom based on, again, a genesis here of a particular desire or interest,
- though I understand the argument, of course, that this would apply broadly to the whole community. I
- understand that. Nevertheless, it feels
- unduly narrow if what we're trying to accomplish is supporting more home occupation uses. I guess that's
- what I'd like to see and a broader categorical approach rather than something that seems so tailored
- to a particular need that was driven by one instance. So for those reasons, I think
- I'm not in support of the ordinance Although I'm very much in support of a ring of agriculture as I
- always have been as our current code allows. Thank you Thank you, are there other councilmember comments
- Councilmember all oh sure I'm also in favor of urban agriculture and I'm also in favor of
- Harmonious expansion of urban agriculture. That is the one that One that is accepted and is embraced
- by the community and I think that This has not been an optimal approach hmm, it just hasn't I won't
- go into detail, but just to say that I think that there's been a lot of contention and that's unfortunate
- because it
- Kind of clouds the issue. Hmm. So I'm also intrigued by what my colleagues said in terms of so we're
- going through an incremental approach here and I I'm I have a lot of Support and trepidation about various
- aspects of it the 20-foot tall hoop house is quite an imposing structure I think for a residential
- neighborhood. I think it's going to cause a
- maybe blowback among the the neighbors and the residents and I think that you're likely to then suffer
- a lot of acrimony and Opposition to urban agriculture. I think that's a mistake. I think it's I Mean,
- you know there is a process element just like we were talking about with the stadium district that has to be
- That we have to go through and it's no fault of mr. Gorlick. I think he's done an outstanding job at
- trying to thread this needle and trying to make something work and I know that he's had a lot to do
- in terms of enforcement and complaints and things related to this so I have nothing but respect for
- mr. Gorlick and the planning department trying to work through this but I I think that this might be
- the wrong tool and
- I'm satisfied that we can as I said actualize a Income currently right now. Is it optimal? Probably
- not But at this point, I'm uncomfortable with this and so I'll be voting no Pending further discussion
- with my colleagues planning staff and and especially the residents and neighborhoods affected Thanks
- Thank you. Are there other comments from council members?
- Councilmember sorry More resilient sustainable locally rooted food system in Bloomington I Believe deeply
- that growing and sharing food should be easier not harder But I think that as written I Think the intent
- first seems I don't know
- questionable, but also more importantly the design here. The legislation began as an effort to make
- small local agriculture more accessible. I think that was sort of the initial place that we started.
- But what we have here is, I mean, a codification of extremely narrow clarifications. I think
- Educational activities may occur outdoors while layering on this like elaborate framework of conditions
- definitions Operational limits that do little to advance our city's food security goals. I think from
- a policy design perspective This is very much like a solution in search of a problem in many ways Like
- if you just read this without knowing all of the background and context it regulates it specifies and
- it reassures, but it doesn't truly enable and so I don't really like by there. It's not I'm not convinced
- that this is about food security. It's a
- about a very simple thing, which is whether or not people can teach outdoors. And I think we have to
- be really clear about what is already allowed. You can already grow food on your property. You can already
- sell food that you grow. You can already teach classes or hold educational activities, albeit indoors,
- related to agriculture. We can already sell produce off-site at farmers markets, to restaurants,
- through CSAs, et cetera, under Indiana's home-based vendor rules. And we can already do all of these
- things within existing hours, noise, nuisance standards that apply to every other resident
- use. So the claim that this ordinance unlocks local food or makes urban agriculture more possible is
- just, I don't think, accurate. Those activities are already legal and happening today. What this ordinance
- does is formalize one narrow point, that teaching can happen outdoors, and then again surrounds it.
- I'm repeating myself, but it surrounds it with clarification that I think just makes our code a little
- bit more complicated.
- I'd be interested in looking at expanding, you know, actually expanding the type of food systems and
- activities that we want to see. And if there's none of those, if the only thing that we want to see
- is increasing the ability for people to teach, then I think that we should just simply do that in the
- appropriate place of code. And so for those reasons, I will not be supporting this. Thank you. Are there
- other council member comments?
- Council Member Rosenberger. I'll do a quick one, thank you. I did want to say also first just that my
- little frequent absences are because my dog had a procedure tonight. I just got him back and he is having
- some bathroom needs and I'm just taking him out. So I'm sorry for that. Okay, that's what keeps happening.
- I would just echo everything my colleagues have said so far and everything I said.
- A couple weeks ago is the same though on October 22nd. But I think we can solve this by allowing outdoor
- classes and home occupation and then if we want expanding to 365 days of selling. I like what Michelle
- said about using the state regs for what products can be sold. I think that sounds really good too that
- we could incorporate here.
- One thing I hadn't focused on at all also is that right now we can't have friends over to show them
- how to grow a fig tree or how I planted tomatoes. And so this is very much about paid classes, right?
- So maybe when we look at this in the future or staff bring something different, like it is about that
- commercial or like entrepreneurial aspect of
- Agriculture or any kind of class. I think that we're talking about pay paid gas on our property as opposed
- to right having a party outside of the heart, which is allowed right now. So just the whole idea of
- changing our residential properties in the commercial properties, I think is like a higher level. But
- in consideration as well and that commercial properties in the county are
- differently, I think they're 3% and that is something that I understand we can't change but I think
- it would also be a consideration that if we allow urban farms, do they get taxed at the same rate as
- county farms because that could be a strange advantage or disadvantage depending who you are. Okay,
- I'm not going to repeat anything else but for tonight I'll be voting no and thank you everyone for another
- I think really good conversation about this legislation.
- Thank you are there other councilmember comments councilmember Piedmont Smith This is a really tough
- one for me and I have barely made up my mind But I think I'm inclined to To go for it to throw a bit
- of caution to the wind and
- and say, we are in a climate crisis. We do need to grow more of our own food. We need to learn how to
- do it. If my neighbors are teaching it, I want to learn from them. I want to be buddies with somebody
- who's growing veggies, because in the future, we're going to be relying on each other. Even now, with
- SNAP benefits, we're relying more on each other.
- I do think it's very unfortunate that there has been this acrimony in the neighborhood. And I don't
- want to take sides in that because I can see both sides. I think that we all have to work hard to be
- good neighbors and listen to each other and not pretend that we know better than anybody else.
- But I think it all does come down to we are in a climate crisis. This whole process has taken a year.
- Sure, we can revisit this and do new rules. That's gonna take at least another year if anybody has the
- bandwidth to do it. I'd like to vote yes because I think it's a good change. It's a good direction to
- go. I think there are a lot of safeguards.
- And yeah, I'm in favor of it. Thank you. Are there other council member comments? All right, I'm going
- to go ahead and go. I'm going to hope that I make it in the five minutes. And I'm also going to say
- that I wrote several things down, and some of it may or may not be in the best order. So I wanted to
- respond to some things that I've heard
- In terms of public feedback and public comment both stuff that's been sent in and also said tonight
- in terms of timing of the process and public meetings and to Kind of remind everybody that this started
- as a use table change And so according to state law we had to send postcards out to every single homeowner
- in this city because these changes affected every single zoning district as it was first presented and
- I wanted to highlight this, okay, because then there were multiple hearings at the planning commission level.
- Including a whole lot of public comment And the public comment that we heard tonight is basically really
- like the same as the public comment that we heard at the planning commission level It's the same group
- group of people who've been who've been speaking So in terms of you know that whole like oh, this is
- spot-zoning or oh this only affects one neighborhood Well, there's a certain category of folks that
- have maybe identified with this particular change more There were a different category of folks that
- we heard about the SROs that we had a first reading for tonight And then we're gonna have a second reading
- for in a couple weeks. So, you know, there's been plenty
- plenty of I think outreach in terms of That and the folks that who have engaged are the ones that who
- chose to engage And I also want to say that you know a lot of that public comment all those letters
- have originated around a very specific property once again because that change resonated with people
- around this particular property more than it resonated with a
- People in other areas and I want to be really clear that matter what happens tonight that specific property
- like if this was approved that specific property would still have to go through a Whole nother conditional
- use process and a lot of the points that were brought up related to that property would still be applicable
- in that kind of environment so like
- Whether you know if it passes tonight, that's no guarantee for that one property or any other property
- in the city and I really want to make that clear like the Board of Zoning Appeals is You know not a
- small thing to have to go through And now getting to this actual like legislation I also want to say
- like I thoroughly support the concept of urban farming gardening like all of the things right and
- Had an amendment on this legislation. So this legislation is currently like it lives in my amended form
- and I support that amended form in terms of comparing it to its like original right, but I still don't
- love it So I I've been you know working with this process with the planning department for a year and
- a half really maybe even a little bit longer and
- It has been very exhaustive in a lot of ways, and generally those differences between the non-commercial
- and the farmstead are really minimal, and as other people have said, kind of so minimal that almost
- maybe not even meaningful except for the education piece. And so that's kind of, and the allowance for
- outdoor occupations and how to do that, I mean,
- There were a number of times that I said to planning, which way should we do this? What makes the most
- sense? And it was their decision to do it this way. But I still don't feel like I have a satisfactory
- answer or an answer that really resonates with me for why this was the decision that they made to go.
- So it's my respect for them as professionals that kind of make me, OK, that's the decision that they
- decided to go with. But I still think that there are some issues. There are issues.
- related to it having to go through the BZA, which yes, it's an onerous process to some degree. But then
- Council Member Asari was pulling this thread that I pulled several months ago.
- What kind of guidance can we give the BZA? What if somebody is not staying in accordance with this?
- What kind of enforcement can we do in terms of removing this allowance? How does that play out? And
- I don't love the way that that plays out. And I think part of that is I don't love conditional uses.
- kind of like, okay, it should either be written in and allowed in the way that it should be allowed,
- or it shouldn't be allowed. And I just don't love going through the BZA for nearly anything, including
- this. And so as this is written right now, I have concerns about it. I have concerns about the whole
- concept of students, which if you have one class with eight kids,
- That's not that big of a deal. If you have one class with eight kids on the hour every hour for eight
- hours a day, for five days a week, that becomes a big deal. So I'm out of time, but thank you. Are there
- other council member comments before we vote? Great, then will the clerk please call the roll on ordinance
- 2025-32 as amended? Yes. Stasberg? No. Daly?
- No Rosenberger no sorry no Flaherty no rough oh and Rallo no Thank you so that fails with a vote of
- one to seven
- Moving on today to the additional public comment. So this is the Another period of generalized public
- comment if you have an item That was not on the agenda that you would like to speak to and if you did
- not speak at the first period of general public comment Now is the time for you to speak up on other
- items not on the agenda so if there's anybody in chambers who would like to speak or
- Make your way to the podium. If there's anybody online, go ahead and raise your hand using the reactions
- tab. I'm kind of looking at staff. I'm looking around. I see a lot of people moving, but nobody's really
- moving to the podium. OK. I don't think. Oh, we do. We have one person with their hand raised on Zoom.
- So when you're unmuted, you can go ahead and state your name for the record. And then you'll have up
- to three minutes.
- Thank you for everything tonight for everyone. My name is Jamie show. I just want to thank those who
- have put together. This convergence of folks to address the food insecurity issues around snap for this
- coming Sunday. That was something I've been very concerned with both individually as
- And as a commissioner on because so I will be attending that and I look forward to joining you. Oh I
- did want to make a point. I did talk to someone the associate director of the Hoosier Hills Food Bank
- a few days ago and want to just put out in the public that we have just under eight thousand people
- who will be affected in Monroe County. So thanks for all who's who's involved in this. Thank you.
- It looks like we have another commenter in chambers. Go ahead and sign in, and then state your name
- for the record. You'll have up to three minutes. Thank you. I'm Jeff Stake, still. And I was nervous
- when I was up here before. And so I just didn't know if I'd said thank you at the end of what I said
- before. I just want to say thank you again.
- I think that I think that that's a general. Thanks. Thanks so much All right. All right. Is there anybody
- else who would like to make a general public comment about items not on the agenda? Any other hands
- went up on zoom
- OK, great. So the note of council schedule, I want to say, next week is our council deliberation session.
- I already talked about that during my opening comments. So please come to that. Come kind of ready to
- share and discuss. And there'll be more information in the packet about that. And there's also more
- information in the press release. Our next regular session is the following Wednesday. So that would
- be November 19.
- When our agenda will actually have to follow the new agenda that we just approved earlier tonight To
- note that difference under reports. Are there any other notes on council schedule councilmember Piedmont
- Smith? The committee on council processes will meet on Monday, November 10th at 12 15 in the elephant
- conference room Great. Thank you. Any other notes on council schedule? I Don't think so
- 19th of November is a fiscal committee meeting. If there are no other notes on schedule, thank you so
- much. We are adjourned.