Thank you. Now that we have a quorum, I'd like to go ahead and call this regular session of the Bloomington
Common Council to order here on Wednesday, November 5th. Will the clerk please call the roll? Here.
Council member Flaherty. Here. We can't hear you. I see. I see it here. Yes. Council member Ruff.
Rallo here Piedmont Smith here Stossburg here Daly here Rosenberger Here and a sorry Thank you I Would like to
So often I start out meetings with various note related to justice or something similar, historical
information. This evening I would like to start with a moment of silence dedicated to Charlotte Zitlow
and the many contributions she made to the Bloomington community. For those that don't know, Charlotte
passed away this morning.
There's no way that I can do justice to the many contributions that she made to this community or properly
enunciate the legacy that she leaves behind. And I honestly didn't think that this was gonna choke me
up as much as it just did simply reading that. So if all of you could please join me in a moment of
silence and recognition of Charlotte.
Thank you Seems a little wrong to carry on with business of the evening after that But it also seems
like one of the tributes that we can give to Charlotte is to carry on with our civic responsibilities
Which is what we're here to do this evening. So First up agenda summation for the evening. We do have
one set of minutes for approval Then we will have a period of reports. We will start with council members and
And then the mayor and city offices and I do not believe we have a report from the mayor and city offices
this evening and then council committees. Also no report from council committees tonight and then we
will have our first period of reports from the public during that period. That time is set aside for
the public to comment on items that are not on our agenda this evening. So if there's anything not on
the agenda that you would like to talk to us about if you're in chambers or if you're online that will
be the first opportunity to do that. Public comment periods are three minutes.
After reports appointments to boards and commissions of which there are none this evening then we'll
have two pieces of legislation for first reading we will have ordinance 2025 41 to amend title 20 the
unified development ordinance regarding the use table amendment single room occupancy.
And then we will have ordinance 2025 45 to fix the salaries of all elected city officials for the city
of Bloomington for 2026. Um, first readings, uh, we do not generally discuss first reading, so we will
just introduce those items, but they will not be discussed by council. They will both be, um, discussed,
uh, in two weeks at our next regular session. Following first readings, we will have legislation for
second readings and resolutions.
We will start with ordinance twenty twenty five forty two to amend title two of the Bloomington Municipal
Code regarding the order of business at regular sessions of council. There is one amendment for that.
Then we will have resolution 2025 18 to approve the naming of the stadium district around Miller Showers
Park And there's also an amendment for that piece of this legislation and then we will wrap
up our legislation this evening with ordinance 2025 32 amending title 20 unified development ordinance
regarding the use table amendment urban agriculture commercial there was an amendment sent out in a
packet addendum and
And of course for those three pieces of legislation there will be public comment periods for each of
them if anybody is interested in commenting on those items After the legislation we will have an additional
period of public comment for other members wanting to comment on anything else not on the agenda You
can comment at one of those two periods of public comment, but not both of them Any notes on council
schedule and then we will adjourn So let's go ahead and rewind back to those minutes
I move that the minutes from September 24th 2025 be approved. Thank you. We have a motion and a second
to approve the minutes from September 24th. Are there any council member comments about those minutes
or questions. OK seen as we have members online this evening all of our votes will need to be by roll
call. And similarly we barely have a quorum in chambers so council members we will have to.
Have a recess if any of us in chambers need to need to get up or anything So given that though, will
the clerk please call the roll on the minutes from September 24th? Flaherty Yes, Ruff Yeah, Rollo. Yes,
Piedmont Smith. Yes, Stasburg. Yes, Daley. Yes, Rosenberger Yeah, and a sorry Thanks. Wonderful.
Thank you. Those minutes are approved. I
We will move into reports from councilmembers. I'll start here in chambers on my right councilmember
Rallo Yes, just to echo I Think our mutual sadness that Charlotte Zittler was passed My meeting with
Charlotte was first meeting was in 1987. It was shortly after I moved to Bloomington and She was running
for office. She was running for mayor then and
The three giants of public service to me in Bloomington Are Tommy Alice and Frank McCloskey and charlotte's
it low Tommy had a commitment to Bring everyone into the room to build coalitions before proceeding
on policy Frank really established the modern infrastructure of Bloomington established boards
and commissions the bus bus service parks
And in Congress, I was proud that he voted against NAFTA back in 1994 under tremendous pressure and
Charlotte of course did many things including every time I Passed the courthouse. I acknowledge Charlotte's
contribution to save that she spearheaded that and we owe that preservation of that wonderful building
to her and
Which might have gone the way of a parking lot believe it or not had she not intervened So just to note
that we we build We who serve build on their legacy and I always keep that in mind Thank you Thank you
councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, thank you, I also want to speak briefly on the passing of dr. Charlotte's at low I
My I first met her when in the 80s when my mom was hosting a fundraiser for the save the courthouse
campaign and of course Charlotte was spearheading that campaign so she was there. I was a preteen or
teenager and and met the great Charles at low and even then I was like in awe.
And then in 2007 when I decided to run for office, I of course met with Charlotte and met with her several
times since then. And she was always very generous with her time and sharing her insights and her long
experience in local politics and what the issues were and how they came about. And it was really invaluable
advice that she gave and I valued her friendship very, very highly.
She will definitely be missed. She was somebody who punched open that glass ceiling for women in this
community to serve in office. And she paid that forward by her role in the Democratic Women's Caucus
and by mentoring countless women since the 1980s, even before.
So we will we are very fortunate that that she made Bloomington her home and she dedicated herself to
public service and not just elected office but also with Planned Parenthood and other volunteer boards
that she served on. Secondly I do want to address the ending of snap benefits that are hitting people
in our community very hard.
And as of November 1st, they have been suspended. So that's what's commonly known as food stamps. There
are many resources in the community. Hoosier Hills Food Bank has a list of them on their website. And
I wanted to share, if I could, if the staff could share a flyer that I received from one of my constituents
a couple of days ago. They started specifically a mutual aid group for people in Monroe County who have
lost SNAP benefits.
And this is a new mutual aid network. It's not something that you may have heard of before. It's specifically
for this period in our history where the SNAP benefits have ended for now. And if you can't read that,
the URL or the website is bit.ly forward slash
Can I read it myself? Snap mutual aid form. Snap mutual aid form. So there, if you need aid, you can
go there and sign up. If you are willing to give aid, you can go there and volunteer. And they will
be in touch with you. So they're seeking donations of food or money. And also, they are posting all donations
version of the form on a public site so you can see that your money is going to go to help a specific
person. You don't have to use your real name if you want to just say you know my name is Brenda and
I need to make up for two hundred dollars each week then or each month then that's what you would put
in there and then people who want to contribute can say I can contribute
Hundred dollars a month or whatever and then you can be matched up. So it's a very grassroots effort
And this also will be it already is on the City Council packet. There was a small Typographical correction
that will be Available tomorrow. So again, it's bit.ly forward slash snap mutual aid form and
And the final thing I wanted to announce, my monthly constituent meeting is this Saturday at 11 a.m.
It will be on Zoom only, and the link is available through the City Council website. Thank you.
Thank you. Let's go down to the other end with Councilmember Asari. Thank you. Well, certainly, as all
of my colleagues have said already, we could spend the rest of the evening just acknowledging all of
the incredible things that Charlotte Zitlow
Did and contributed to this community and I think just to echo what councilmember Rallo and councilmembers
Piedmont Smith said I think her legacy is all around us and the very institution that we're sitting
in and All of us get to serve because she broke so many barriers and and the but the one thing that
I'll say to add to this is
to me her example, even until the very end, I mean, it's so symbolic that just a few days ago she was,
I mean, a week ago essentially was just arguing for justice in the community, a center that was
named after her, still bearing her name, still working to that very end. She always had a list of things
that needed to be done in the community. And when you would bring up problems or issues or things that
you cared about, she'd say, well, add it to my list. And Charlotte could get anything done here. But
really focused on the fact that public service was not about centering ourselves, but about the people
that we serve. And I really hope that we all continue to honor her by continuing this work.
Thank you.
and I'm just so grateful to have known her. In terms of just quick updates, the first one is that this
week, Bloomington is celebrating Innovation Week at the Mill and throughout the Trades District. This
is a showcase of the creativity, entrepreneurship, and collaboration that define our city's innovation
ecosystem. Tomorrow is AI Day, and so if you have a chance to go, tickets are free, there's food, but
a great opportunity to connect with speakers, demonstrations,
exploring how artificial intelligence is transforming health, security, public service, et cetera. My
colleague David Crandall is going to be speaking. And then there's going to be some lightning talks
and panels featuring innovators across the ecosystem. And then on Friday, we're going to conclude with
Arts and Community Day. It's going to be highlighting the creative energy that fuels innovation.
Ben Swanson, the co-founder of Secretly Group, is going to be giving the keynote. And there's going
to be a culminating block party
I was really enjoyed participating in today's events and was on a panel on GovTech, and we can talk
about a lot of those things in the weeks ahead. And then this last week, Councilmember
What's your last name? Daley. Councilmember Daley and I went to the Commission on the Status of Hispanic
and Latina Affairs. We talked about a variety of things, but one of the things that they've reached
out to counsel about, and so I'd love to get all of your support on, is that with the ending of the,
and I'm sorry, I have aphasia, but the, what's the program called? The holiday gift assistance program.
program. They found a bunch of community organizations that are willing to take that over from the city.
I think which is fantastic. But councilmember Daly and I have agreed to also help out and spread the
word. Hope that many of the rest of you would join in both with sort of organizing, bringing people
to it, connecting people, et cetera. Then very briefly in the packet amendment addendum,
There was a letter that I've drafted to the mayor requesting an additional appropriation should the
government continue to be closed and should SNAP benefits still be suspended or not funded, asking for
the mayor to introduce an additional appropriation. And I've suggested that that could come from Jack
Hopkins. I think it could come from other places as well. But just sort of noting that we're welcome
to another appropriation.
or to add this appropriation to the end of your appropriation. So if anybody wants to sign that, we
don't have to vote, or if you want to discuss it, happy to. But if you want to sign that, please join
at the end. We can just let me know. So we add your names to that. And again, signing does not mean
that we are approving anything. It's not a legislative action, just as sort of saying our openness to
receive such an appropriation. I think that's everything for me.
Great. Thank you. Councilmember daily. Thank you. I've been trying to think all afternoon what I was
going to say about the passing of Charlotte Zitlow. Clearly though I realized I'm not up to it tonight.
I'm not going to be able to make any statements. So for that I apologize. I will definitely be sharing
a statement later. She was a hero but I'm not going to make everybody cry.
I will share that later when I am a little more emotionally stable too. So thank you for your patience
with that. But I do want to address a letter that I included in the packet. In the packet, second packet
addendum that went out today, I included a updated and revised letter to try to address some of the
concerns that my colleagues had expressed about the letter. So for anybody who has not read the packet,
it is expressing
Just what our community can do to come together in a coordinated effort to try to help cover the loss
of these snap benefits for our over 5,000 community members, I believe it is, who will be affected by
this. I feel that it's incumbent upon us as city leaders to respond to this situation. That's why I
wrote the letter. My goal was to point community members toward not just helping our neighbors in need,
but to do so in a manner that's most effectively addressing the most
most pressing issues of food for our local assistance networks. I'm very well aware that this letter
is not going to solve any hunger issues. There's nothing that I or any of us could say or write that
would on our own, but instead
This letter was meant to be really a catalytic to jumpstart a response that is most helpful and effective
in getting food to our neighbors who are currently going without our names and our shared message can
direct hundreds of residents toward concrete ways to help and can signal to local partners that city
leadership recognizes and values their work. Many Bloomington families are directly impacted by this and
To be sure, Bloomington is a city with a really huge heart. We're surrounded by people who truly and
deeply care and want to help. However, even with the best of intentions, sometimes what we offer to
help isn't actually what the others really need most. So in order to be most productive,
I see this as a platform to amplify various ways in which people who want to help can be most impactful.
Also in the addendum today, I did include the Hoosier Hills Food Bank pamphlet where they listed many,
many resources for our community members who have lost their SNAP benefits and who are in danger of
going hungry. So I really hope that they will take advantage of that mutual aid resource that Council
Member Piedmont-Smith shared and also refer to that pamphlet.
Um, so this letter is addressed to our fellow residents. Um, it is from me. I invite any other council
member who is interested in adding their name to it to help amplify this message to please, uh,
join in. I'll reach out later. We don't have to have this discussion tonight, but I will reach out and
ask if anybody is interested in sharing that and then I will be sharing that letter more widely with
the community.
To get that messaging out there and then finally this Sunday councilmember Asare and Monroe
County Commissioner Madeira and I will be hosting a community conversation on food insecurity so this will be.
at the Monroe County Public Library the downtown branch at one o'clock on Sunday. We already have several
of our food assistance networks committed to joining a panel you know to have a conversation so they
can share with members of the community what they most need which
Spoiler alert, it's repeatable and sustainable support and donations, but we can have a deeper conversation
about that and I have invitations out to several others. If anybody out there is interested in joining,
please swing by or if you are a representative for one of these food assistance networks or are committed
to food security, please reach out to me and I'd be more than happy to have you as a guest. And I think
that was everything, thank you.
Thank you. Let's go ahead and go online. Council Member Flaherty. Thank you. First, I want to share
in my colleagues' remarks condolences to Charlotte Zitlow's family, friends, admirers on her passing
and share the remarks of just her incredible legacy in Bloomington. I have not had the decades of direct
engagement with her, some of my colleagues did, but of course, interacted with her regularly throughout
my almost six years of service now.
in the city council. And I think two things that strike me by way of remembrance are one, that not just
during the years of her formal government service, but in many ways through the entirety of the rest
of her life, she stayed very strongly engaged in serving the Bloomington community in all sorts of ways.
And I think that's a real legacy to remember. And second is
The conversations we had that I especially remember and enjoyed most were ones where she had such an
independence of thought in my experience. I never knew quite how she was going to view something or
feel about something. And it surprised me sometimes. Oftentimes, I agreed with her. Sometimes,
we did not. But I always felt we had really productive and interesting conversations about it. And I
just appreciated. I remember in particular, there was a vote where I was the only dissenting council
member on a thing. And she had the same opinion of me and singled me out at a party event. And we talked about it.
So yeah, I just, that's something that struck me about her. And I think that's a really important example
by which we should, you know, that we should remember in our service as well. And then additionally,
I just wanted to thank council members Asari and Daly for their work to, and Piedmont Smith for elevating
in various ways the challenges facing our community in
the context of SNAP benefits going away or being unavailable for a period of time. I know there's still
some uncertainty around elements of that. I'll bring into it also LIHEAP benefits, the Low Income Home
Energy Assistance Project, which was already under attack and a very similar dynamic of energy and security.
In fact, the things are interactive, sometimes tragically referred to as a heat or eat dynamic. So all
of this is so important and important to keep eyes on
the supports that are important in our community that are voting both during the shutdown and outside
of it, the federal government and find ways to fill gaps where we can. So yeah, thank you again to my
colleagues for elevating those things and their efforts. Thank you. I'm gonna go ahead and extend council
member report time until I'll say six,
I'll say 705 to start with just to make sure that everybody has a chance to give full reports as they
would like Councilmember Rosenberger Hi, thanks briefly for me today. I do want to echo what everyone
has said and just add Charlotte and add in one fun story. I always loved of her When I met her she lived in
just east of campus and was driving. And then through the years, she stopped driving and moved to the
Kirkwood on Sixth Street. Her apartment overlooked the beeline in Sixth Street. And I was visiting her
one day and she just talked about how much she felt like she lived in Europe now, like a little town
where she could walk everywhere. And I thought that was super cute. She mentioned the Irish lion, but
I think that it felt like Italy.
which is fine, it's just we don't have an Italian restaurant right there. So I love her for that. Pivoting,
I just wanted to give an update on the house for sale in Prospect Hill for $559,000. This is the 601
West 4th Street that was a triplex converted to a two bed, two bath, single family home. It's been on
the market.
just about a month, 35 days, and it went under contract almost immediately. So it looks like people
are buying houses that cost that much in walkable areas too. All right, thank you so much. Thank you,
Council Member Ruff. Thank you, no report tonight, thank you. Okay, thank you.
I want to thank my colleagues for all of their stories about Charlotte. I obviously didn't feel up to
really talking about it much tonight, but I really appreciate that some of my colleagues did. So thank
you all for that.
I also want to announce my constituent meeting on Saturday, November 15th. And on my calendar, what
I'm announcing right now is a little different than what's on the calendar. So what I'm announcing right
now is right. And then I'm going to fix the calendar. I'm going to do it at 1130 via Zoom. So 1130 via
Zoom on Saturday, November 15th. That just kind of works a little bit better for my schedule and also
the Zoom link schedule.
And then I also, both for the public and for my colleagues, want to talk about our deliberation session
a little bit next week. I know I could talk about that during council schedule time, but sometimes it
feels like by that time in the meeting, everybody just wants to go home and doesn't listen.
So next week, we will have a deliberation session of council. And so that's going to be the second of
our community conversations, basically, about housing. So the first one in September, we talked about
housing needs and experiences. This one's going to be a little bit different.
Here's some information from the planning department about the.
the conversations that they've had and the information that they've received from the community, kind
of like trends about different things. And then our small group conversations are gonna, the main difference
is that not every group is going to talk about the same exact things. There are going to be different
groups exploring different lines of inquiry. And so more information will go out in the packet this
Friday about those specific inquiries. There's also a press release that kind of talks about it a little
bit if people are interested. But so for community members,
630 here in council chambers there will be of course a zoom option a virtual option and like last time
I'm trying to figure out some way for Virtual participation, but there won't be a virtual conversation
option for colleagues I sent you an email with this information because as members of the public you
will of course
have preferences about which line of inquiry you want to have a conversation about so you get to choose
your groups and as council members you also get to choose the groups that you facilitate but only if
you let me know what your choices are otherwise I will just tell you what you're doing so if you have
Preferences, please respond to that email as soon as you can and thank you to the colleagues who have
already responded to that and then the last thing about that I Discovered on Sunday that I have a little
bit of a scheduling complication with next Wednesday. So I I May or may not end up being here for the
whole meeting I might only be here for the beginning or I might only be here for the end and I haven't
quite figured that out yet. So Yeah, that is my report
for this evening. And we only went a couple minutes over our report time of 20 minutes.
Go us no reports from the mayor and city offices tonight No reports from council committees tonight,
which means that we've moved into our first period of reports from the public So if any members of the
public have a comment that they want to make on an item not on the agenda Now is your first opportunity
to do that again? That's for things not on the agenda If you're in chambers, you can go ahead and make
your way to the podium and then you'll have three minutes if you're online You can go ahead and raise
your hand using the reactions tab
Or you can send a chat message to the host and I see somebody standing up in chambers So if you want
to come up, there should be a sign-in sheet there so that you can sign in please state your name for
the record and Staff we have our timer all sets. So the timer will start when you start talking Make
sure to speak into the microphone perfect. Thank you better. Yes, I'll start over I
Good evening. Good? Good evening. My name is Claudia Brink and I have been a proud resident of Bloomington
for many years. I've come to tonight's meeting to share with you my and my neighbor's concerns about
the real and very present dangers that are affecting the safety, security and quiet enjoyment of our
neighborhoods. And no, I'm not referring to people's worries about how smaller houses, duplexes and
triplexes could impact their property values.
We are very concerned about how the existing 800 plus short-term rentals are destabilizing our neighborhoods.
Likely, you already know that all anyone has to do to put their property on a short-term rental platform
is fill out an online form and upload some photos. That's all they have to do. And if you want to rent
a short-term rental, just fill out a form and upload your credit card information.
Currently in Bloomington, short-term rentals are completely exempt from any type of regulation. Short-term
rentals are not inspected to ensure they are safe for habitation, and owners of STRs do not have to
prove that they have sufficient insurance to cover catastrophic events that could occur at their property.
Also, there is no information available about short-term rental guests, be they normal folks or criminals
or registered sex offenders.
One short-term rental on the east side that I'm very familiar with lists the occupancy as 15 with four
bedrooms. There's a 200 square foot front deck and a 200 square foot back deck. On weekends when there
are big events in town, there could be 15 cars there with four cars in the driveway and 11 cars parked
on both sides of the road. And on those weekends when there is a home football game, well, you can imagine
what that house looks like and the
and the guests after they've been tailgating for hours before the game and drinking beer during the
game, the guests next door probably aren't sober enough to drive safely through the neighborhood, much
less keep the noise down on those decks late at night. We are asking you to consider the establishment
of a short-term rental permit process as laid out in the Indiana Code of 2024, requiring short-term
rental owners to apply for a permit with a maximum of
$150 one-time fee would provide neighbors potential property owners public safety personnel Insurers
and mortgage lenders with the information they need to take actions to protect personal safety Property
values and their business interests. We thank you for giving our request your serious consideration
Thank you So anybody else in chambers who would like to make a comment wonderful. I see a couple other
people moving Do we have any hands raised on zoom?
Let's go ahead to the next gentleman here in chambers. I see you signing in Thank you very much state
your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes I'll try to remember to bring the
microphone down after I'm done Leave it up a lot. I'm sorry My name is Steve Olin and I come to also
speak in tribute of the late Charlotte Zitlow who I was proud to call a friend She wrote two books it's
it's it's I think
maybe not ironic, but appropriate that the news of her passing came today because she was part of perhaps
the greatest wave election in city history, the election of 1971 that swept her and eight new council
members to office. Only one council member that was on the council survived the election of 1971 to
continue serving.
There was also a new mayor that year too, so if you think you all had it difficult with as many people
turned over in this last election, that was quite a year. Which she wrote about in the book 1971,
How We Won, which I was privileged to help her edit. But her other book, Minister's Daughter, talks
about her life in total, including coming from
Wisconsin and settling in Bloomington but she served one term on the City Council's very momentous term
in the early 70s and two terms as County Commissioner and Was devoted utterly to the city and the county
that we all call home and so I just wanted to add
My words of tribute to a great woman who was also the very first female president of the City Council
in Immediately upon taking office. No one else wanted to do the job and she had led the way so I hope
that this majority female council appreciates the the path broken by the one who came before Thank you Thank you
It's like, yeah, you didn't lower the mic there, tall man. Thank you, let's keep on going here at Chambers.
Maybe I should use the lower one. Please, I see you signing in. Thank you so much, and state your name
for the record, and then you'll have up to three minutes. I'm Sarah Jane Hughes, and you've seen me
before, but I was motivated because I saw Vice President's shirt for the community kitchen.
And I'm speaking on their behalf. They need a lot of donations to help make everybody through the holidays
and otherwise. And one of my faculty colleagues sent out a note about money donations needed for SNAP
and Head Start where there's no money. And I understand in Indiana, even the money that will be available
is not likely to come for the next maybe week or more.
So if you have a few extra pennies in your pocket, this is the time to make a donation. Hoosier Action
is taking donations for both purposes. The Community Kitchen is taking donations, particularly
for Thanksgiving, but I'm sure they need everything you can possibly do.
And my husband and I happen to be supporters of many of the food insecurity groups in the area. And
we urge everyone who can to be extra generous right now, given how grave the issues are, particularly
for children. I understand they didn't have school yesterday, which means they didn't have school lunch
yesterday. So thank you for your time. And thank you, Vice President Piedmont-Smith, because I would
never have remembered to do this without you.
Thank you. Are there any other members and chambers who would like to make a comment. Anybody raise
their hand on zoom. OK. Let's carry on with our agenda then for this evening. So reminder there will
be another period of general public comment toward the end of the meeting if anybody thinks of anything
in the meantime with no appointments to boards and commissions were on to legislation for first readings.
Yes councilmember Flaherty I'm sorry. I actually did have not an appointment but a other board and Commission
related item to make a motion on if that's acceptable Was there anything in the packet about it there
was not but it's not an appointment Okay, I guess let's hear it Thank you so as you all know when a
member of a commission stops attending or misses three meetings in a row I
There was a process for removal. The way we've done this most over the last couple of years is to have
a formal process to give notice of a pending removal. And then if there are not some sort of explanatory
circumstances that we would find justified in not making a removal, then we move on to removal subsequently.
So it takes a motion essentially by convention at least to move formally into that process. And I wanted
to make a motion to that effect.
for a member of the commission on Hispanic and Latina affairs. Council member, council appointed member
Jose Puentes, who's missed three meetings in a row and has not been responding to emails and calls about
it. So normally we have the chair of the interview committees do that, but I believe council members
you look is not an attendance tonight. So I wanted to make that motion essentially on the interview
committee sees behalf. And so let me actually do that and make a motion.
I move we initiate the process for removal for failure to attend three consecutive meetings for Commissioner
Jose Fuentes member of the Commission on Hispanic and Latina affairs Second Okay, thank you Clerk McDowell,
did you get that whole motion? Great Does anybody have any questions about this motion council members?
Councilmember Allah Councilmember Flaherty and I serve on on team see which points for that commission
Councilmember Flaherty we were going to have Deputy mayor Crossley Look into to make make a one last
attempt to contact the individual is was that not successful. Do you know any anything about them? Yeah,
that's right following our last interview committee meeting where we discussed that at
Claire crossly did follow up and Sent us an email two days ago noting that they've missed the third
meeting and been unable to make contact. Okay. Thank you Thank you other questions I Have the question
this doesn't actually remove them this initiates the process for removal and then if it's like a letter,
right? And then if they don't respond then we'll have to remove at a subsequent meeting. Is that correct?
That's right, that's the process we've been using for a few years now
Thank you. I just wanted to we don't have to do it very often. So I wanted to clarify. Yep. Good brain
any other Okay, let's go ahead and do a roll call vote then on that Motion to initiate the process for
removal of Jose Fuentes from the Commission of Hispanic and Latina affairs. Yes, I didn't catch the
seconder of the motion Did anyone sign both of these two seconded? I'm not sure which one can claim it first
Okay, count count councilmember. Sorry seconded. It's very important Okay councilmember ruff Yes Rollo,
yes Piedmont Smith. Yes, Stossburg. Yes, daily. Yes Rosenberger Yes, sorry, yes and Flaherty Yes, thank
you Great. Thank you so much
Are you ready to move past appointments to boards and commissions? I Think we are and then on to legislation
for first readings I Move that ordinance 2025 dash 41 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and
synopsis only It's been moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025 41 Will the clerk please call
the roll on that motion comes member Rallo Yes, Piedmont Smith. Yes
Stossburg. Yes daily. Yes Rosenberger Yeah, sorry. Yes and rough. Yes. Thank you Yeah, thank you. Oh
Sorry councilmember Flaherty I put oh my goodness. Thank you. Will the clerk please read ordinance 2025-41
to amend title 20 the unified development ordinance of the Bloomington Municipal Code
regarding use table amendment, single room occupancy. The synopsis is this amendment modifies table
03-1, allowed use table, use specific standards, as well as several definitions within the
unified development ordinance to allow for the use single room occupancy as directed through council
resolution 2024-25. This ordinance is in accordance with Indiana code 36-7-4
Thank you, I Move that ordinance 2025-45 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only
Thank you, it's been moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025-45 will the clerk please call the
roll on that motion councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, Stossburg. Yes, Ailey. Yes, Rosenberger
Sorry. Yes Flaherty Yes, rough. Yes and Rallo. Yes Thank you. Will the clerk please read? Yes Ordinance
2025-45 to fix the salaries of all elected city officials for the city of Bloomington for the year 2026
The synopsis is this ordinance sets the maximum 2026 salary rate for all elected city officials for
the city of Bloomington. I
Thank you. We will hear those two pieces of legislation two weeks from tonight at our next regular session.
Moving on to second readings and resolutions. I move that appropriation ordinance. That's that's not
right. I move that ordinance. I'm sorry that was left over the appropriation and that ordinance 2025
dash 42 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only.
Thank you. It's been moved and seconded to introduce ordinance 2025 42. The clerk please call the roll
on that motion. Yes. Council member Stossberg. Yes. Daily. Yes. Rosenberger. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Flaherty.
Yes. Ruff. Yes. Rollo. Yes. And Piedmont Smith. Yes. Thank you. Will the clerk please read.
Ordinance 2025 dash 42 to amend title 2 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled administration and
personnel regarding amending Bloomington Municipal Code 2.0 4.3 8 0 the order of business at regular
sessions and
And the synopsis is this ordinance men's BMC two point oh four point three eight. Oh to update the council's
regular session agenda expanding subsection for be to include the mayor city clerk city offices city
boards and commissions and city partnership entities in reports. Thank you. I move that ordinance twenty
twenty five dash forty to be adopted.
second Thank you so much councilmember Piedmont Smith, I believe that this is For you to present tonight.
Is that sure it's pretty straightforward So for those of you who might not know our agenda is Set in
code it is actually in our laws that we do things step by step by step each meeting. That's why I
when our council president reads the agenda, sometimes she'll say appointments to boards and commissions,
but we have none. Well, she has to say that because it has to be on the agenda because that's how it's
set. But anyway, I digress. So this basically just changes the one line in our code under the heading
of reports on our agenda. So we have reports first from council members, then from the mayor, city clerk,
No from the mayor and city offices then from council committees and then from the public. Well that
second one the reports from the mayor and city offices we have routinely asked for reports from resident
boards and commissions during that time as well. It doesn't say that it's part of our agenda but that's
how we've used that. And sometimes we have a report from the city clerk's office and that's not explicitly
mentioned here either.
This is just really amending that little part of our agenda in code to say yes We want to hear from
the mayor the city clerk city offices and or city boards and commissions So that's it And I have an
amendment Why don't we go ahead and do the amendment first because the amendment has to do with the
synopsis as opposed to the content does that
Work for you. Sure. Do you want to introduce that amendment then or so I want to move amendment one
to ordinance twenty twenty five dash forty two. Thank you. Do you want to talk about the amendment now
too. So this is just there was just a mistake in the synopsis which said that we would also hear from
city partnership entities but we don't
want to include that oh by the way I forgot to mention this did come through the committee on council
processes it's not just me bringing this it's that committee so it's just deleting from the synopsis
the words and city partnership entities and then it's adding an attachment which is the red line of
that part of our code so just kind of an unnecessary attachment but it's just to be super clear
What we are deleting what we're adding. That's it. Great. Thank you. Let's go ahead and since we have
a motion regarding Amendment 1 on the table does anybody have any questions about Amendment 1. OK.
Procedurally we go to the members of the public at this point. So if any members of the public would
like to specifically comment on amendment one to ordinance 2025 42 This is the time to do that.
Once again, this is specifically about the amendment that Improves some accuracy and intention of The
legislation I don't see anybody moving in chambers. Is there anybody online who's raised a hand? I
Okay, great. Then we'll bring it back to council members any council members want to make a comment
about amendment one to ordinance 2025 42 All right, I don't see anybody for that so clerk McDowell if
you could call the roll on amendment one to 2025 42, that would be great councilmember daily Yes Rosenberger
Yeah, sorry, yes clarity I
Yes. Ruff. Yes. Rollo. Yes. Piedmont Smith. Yes. And Stossberg. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. So that passes
unanimously eight zero on the amendment. And so now we'll go back to ordinance twenty twenty five forty
two as amended. Do council members have any questions or comments about this for a council member Piedmont Smith.
Council member sorry just a super quick one and maybe this is more for our legal counsel but why do
we need to have our meeting agenda in code. I don't think that it's necessary for whatever reason that
was added to the Bloomington municipal code. Other questions.
Okay, seeing no other questions from council members will again go to the public and this time If you're
a member of the public who's interested in commenting on this ordinance at all That would be ordinance
2025 42 as amended if you want to come to the podium and chambers Or if you want to raise your hand
on zoom, I don't see anybody jumping up in chambers. Is there anybody online who has raised a hand? Okay
Then I think that we'll revert back to council again for councilmember comment on ordinance 2025 42
as amended Councilmember sorry, I think that we don't need to just because it would be a waste of time
But we should just remove this entire section now of code There's no reason for us to be codifying things
that don't need to be codified Okay, councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, um I
Agree that title to which the section about The Common Council and how it should be run and what the
agendas are and all that is actually being reviewed by Council staff and I know that councilmember Osari
has done a thorough review as well and we are working on extracting a lot of text from that and putting
it in a administrative manual
Because it does not as council member sorry said doesn't and as our legal counsel said as well it does
not need to be in here and it just makes it more cumbersome to change things if we want to adjust and
improve how we do business. So that process is underway slowly but surely. Thank you. Are there other
council member comments.
Great, then I think that we're ready for the clerk to call the roll on ordinance 2025 42 as amended
councilmember Rosenberger Yes, sorry, I'm sorry, yes Flaherty Yes, Ruff Yes, Rallo. Yes Piedmont Smith.
Yes Stasburg. Yes and daily. Yes Great. Thank you that
Ordinance passes 8-0 I move that resolution 2025 18 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and
synopsis only Second, thank you. It's been moved and seconded to introduce resolution 2025 18. Will
the clerk please call the roll on that? Council members, sorry Yes Flaherty
Yes. Ruff? Yes. Rallo? Yes. Piedmont-Smith? Yes. Stossberg? Yes. Daly? Yes. Sorry. Yes. I lost track
of whether the clerk called everybody's name because of. We did. Did you get it? Oh, I didn't get called.
I'm a yes. I think you did.
I should have been last. I don't know. Council member Rosenbarger. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much.
Will the clerk please read. Resolution 2025-18 to approve the naming of the stadium district in the
area surrounding Miller Showers Park. The synopsis is this resolution co-sponsored by council member
Stossberg names the area around Miller Showers Park as the stadium district.
This naming will foster community pride promote economic growth and enhance tourism in the area Thank
you Resolution 2025 18 be adopted second Thank you. And since I'm cosponsoring I'm handing the gavel
over to my vice president councilmember Piedmont Smith All right, who is here to give us a brief? rundown
we have heard this before and I see a
Director Jane Cooper Smith from economic sustainable development here, but President Stossburg, would
you like to start the presentation? Yeah, I would actually like to move amendment one to resolution
2025. I lost track of my thing 18. Thank you. One has been moved and seconded. Yep. So members member
Stossburg, go ahead. Thank you. So amendment one is a new map.
for this area, it was distributed in the packet and then in the packet addendum earlier this week, kind
of a more parcel by parcel map was put out so that you could really see where the lot lines were. So
in the new map, the, I'm finding, I'm sorry, I'm doing like two things right now, or four maybe.
There were some concerns that there had been, so if this naming initiative is generally a commercial,
a benefit for commercial operations within this area, and our original map had kind of been to some
degree based on zoning districts, and not just what currently existed, but also what could exist in
those areas based on what the current zoning is,
though currently in some of those areas it was generally residential and so the residents in those areas
did not want to be included in this initiative that was generally a commercial type initiative. So we
condensed the map. So the current map, if you look at the lot line one, it generally extends one property
Lot line off of the major kind of thoroughfare. So one lot line to the west of college and one lot to
the east of walnut there's Maybe a couple exceptions for actually I think that for walnut. There's just
one exception where there's
Technically two lots but it's like one property. So it's if you actually like look at that property
It is like owned by the same those two lots are owned by the same person and the structures on those
are the same thing I'm sorry to interrupt but could staff project that new map, please. Okay. Thank
you I think it's also part of the presentation that director Cooper Smith is going to do and
And then along 17th Street, we also trim that back to generally one lot. But once again, there's a few
examples there where there are technically two lots, but they are owned by the same person and or have
the same structure on them. And sometimes, the best example is honestly on the corner of
I think it's actually where Madison turns to Kinzer and 17th and the dry cleaner is actually on the
lot line. Their roof is cut in half. Technically that dry cleaner is on two lot lines if you look at
it on the elevate map, which I think is really interesting. But it's obviously one building. So those
are the kinds of places that we had two lots because they were owned by the same person and or had the
same structure or type of structure in those two lots. So that is how we trimmed down the map
both to reflect the community members, the residents in those areas who had some concerns and also to
kind of more accurately in some ways represent that this is about commercial businesses that might exist
there and so it captures the
Currently existing businesses and doesn't necessarily capture as much of the possibility for new businesses
in the future So that is the amendment and I think that staff probably I don't know if staff wants to
do their presentation around the amendment now as well Okay, and do you have the slide deck? So director
Kipper Smith your presentation is also about the amendment It includes information on the changes to the map
Yes, so because you're standing on the table is the amendment. So okay, just trying to clarify. Okay,
I Will leave anything that is not just exclusively about the amendment out of my present. It's okay
If it's all wrapped together, I mean, I don't need you to To do it to do surgery on it. Go ahead I'll
do my best Jane Cooper Smith director of economic and sustainable development and as we just established
I'm here to talk about the amendment to
Resolution 2518 as councilmember Stossberg mentioned we've had a lot of community Feedback on this map
and just to be real transparent about where we are I think the map is a lot stronger for that feedback
and Even though councilmember Stossberg and I had been working on this for a while. I'm thinking about
it in a specific, you know a particular way I think it's
better and more accurately reflects the purpose of the proposed district which is to serve as a marketing
tool for these businesses as Councilmember Sossberg mentioned I'm sorry there was oh I do have the slide
deck. Okay, thanks So I shouldn't go over what we discussed last time just to be clear Sorry No You
can go ahead. Okay, I don't mean to make it down for you. No, no, I just want to do it correctly and
So we communicated with Maple Hearts Heights and Garden Hill neighborhood associations via their directors.
We it was discussed at the Economic Development Commission meeting. We met with planning and engineering
departments internally. So we had general feedback in the initial round. But we were we asked I asked
more targeted questions that I think helped us push the map in a better direction.
And then as council member Stossberg mentioned we removed the areas of Garden Hill south of 17th Street.
We removed the areas of Maple Heights just the majority of it but the area immediately west of college
and immediately south of 17th is also Maple Heights. And those are I had my map up their mixed use darn
it these passwords.
I think it's medium scale. I think it's mixed use medium scale. Yeah. Yes. OK. The purpose the why is
just to strengthen the identity of this district. We have an area that serves as a gateway to Bloomington
and welcome at a front porch. You can use a number of metaphors for it but it is what serves as the
point of entry to you know people who live here and are coming home.
people who work in Bloomington every day, the millions of visitors that we welcome to Bloomington every
year, and giving this district an identity really solidifies it so that the businesses have something
that they can use to market to all of these users of the district, but specifically to the millions
of visitors every year who are visiting for the purposes of attending sporting events.
It's a low-cost high-impact tool and then I just want to go back to the what it does and what it doesn't
do The resolution establishes the name it establishes the geographic area for which we've proposed an
amendment Based on public feedback. It empowers the promoting of this district. It does not establish
an economic development incentive and
It does not establish a riverfront district. It does not have a planning component. It does not require
participation and it doesn't commit any funding specifically for this district. It is just giving it
a name so that people can can use it. And I think I just restated the timeline here and I think that's
it for now.
Sorry, I'm a little thrown just trying to figure out what I was actually supposed to focus on but I'm
happy to take any of your questions Thank You director Cooper Smith and councilmember Stossberg are
there questions from council members about the amendment Yes councilmember Daley, thank you very much
Thank you for that explanation. You did a great job with the surgery
I just have a question and it's Might be easier since you're sitting next to me There's the the weird
little on the bottom of the screen likes by 17th and was that Madison little jet-out Section why was
why was that area included that doesn't seem like it would be anything that really was yeah so pertinent
to something, you know in a stadium district and
It just makes such a strange shape. Just north of Maple Heights, along 17. So that's the area between
I'm just gonna call it Kinzer, you know, I love how Bloomington streets change names somewhere in the
middle But I'm just gonna call it Kinzer for ease and I think that that's Jackson So on either side
of 17th Street there there are businesses and it's one of those things like when we were thinking about
it it's like who do we include and who do we exclude and where do we draw the line and I can tell you
so there is if you're thinking about the south side of the street there
I'm not going to be able to name all of them, but there is a gas station. And then there is a restaurant.
It's a barbecue place. And then I can't remember what's on the corner. And so there's actually business
there. And then on the north side, there's an auto parts store. And then there's, I think it's like
a little. The lawnmower and tool repair place. Yeah. So there's actually some commercial businesses
there. And so it felt kind of like, if we're going to bring it up
Like, how can we exclude, like, what are we gonna exclude at that point? And so that was why I thought
to include that part was specifically to make sure that, you know, and if you think about it, it's like,
well, if you're down there at Miller Showers Park, it's like a two block walk if you wanna go up there
and frequent that restaurant, or, you know, that is a fueling station option for people going out of
town that is not actually that out of the way, and so I,
I just felt like it was, that they should be included in terms of those kind of adjacent businesses.
Honestly, in a similar way as you go like, well, we also kind of jetted out to include the Kroger and
that strip that has Avers Pizza on a subway and like something else over there in that Kroger parking
lot in a similar sort of way.
So that was my reasoning for wanting to keep that section. I think it helps to imagine that you're a
visitor or someone who's using a GIS tool to navigate your way around. You put you search for something
in your phone and you want to know which Kroger to go to what gas stations are near me. So if you're
in the stadium district and these businesses if they elect to use this name then that's going to help
them identify them.
themselves to those potential customers Thank you, uh-huh. Thanks. Hopey other questions from council
members about the amendment Okay seeing none we'll go to members of the public to comment on the amendment
which is a revised map for the proposed stadium district does any member of the public want to make
a comment please come to the
Microphone and clearly write your name and then state your name. You'll have it to three minutes. And
if you're on zoom, you can use the raise hand function and we will get to you as well. Good. Hello.
My name is Tracy B and I'm the president of the Maple Heights Neighborhood Association. I've actually
asked for a postponement of this vote because my neighborhood I've heard
Nothing before this issue has actually raised the ire of my neighbors so much. I struggle to get my
neighbors involved with our neighborhood, and I have heard nothing but complaints about this. And I'm
asking for a postponement so that I can basically talk with my neighbors about the new map and sort
of get a read on
how they feel about this new map, and whether they're against it or for it. But I don't feel like the
new map, which I only saw a few days ago, I didn't have time to schedule a meeting with my neighbors.
I think we need more time, basically. But right now, they're not happy. I've never seen them so unhappy.
That's OK.
Thank you. Did you write your name down on the okay. Please go ahead. Thank you for your comments. Do
we have anybody on zoom. No. Okay. Well then I would welcome the next person in council chambers. Be
sure to write your name. Thank you.
My name is Aubrey Williams, and I'm one of the co-founders at Heartwork Brewing, which is in the proposed
map area. I'm a Bloomington North and IU grad and mom of two, and I grew up and live on the north side
of town. And I will say, whether this is settled tonight or postponed, the conversations I've had with
fellow small business owners in the area have been very positive towards providing some kind of identity
wayfinding
something to assist us as we try to run these businesses as everyone knows that Having a small business
is challenging and as Plumingtonians I feel like we have a passion for small locally owned businesses
and wanting to support them But that doesn't always line up with a lot of the infrastructure and other
things available and so that's one reason I think a lot of the business owners are
Supportive of some kind of initiative that would draw some positive attention to some blighted properties
And positive business growth for those of us so that we can survive in that environment. Thanks Thank
you anybody else in council chambers want to make a comment please come to the podium It yeah and this
in general is about right now it's about the amended map
There will be another opportunity after the amendment to talk on the topic in general So it depends
on if you're gonna talk about the map or just the thing in general Okay, go ahead My name is Joshua Stockton
First I'd like to thank the council for accepting my invitation to tour the Monroe water treatment plant
and scheduling subsequent tours which will tie into my Concerns later in this issue But my main concern
today is the implementation of this new stadium district I do live within one block of the lines within
this district in the Garden Hill neighborhood
But my main concern right now is increased amenities and development within this neighborhood as time
goes on. So that would be bars, businesses, other restaurants, which could potentially increase property
valuation in adjacent neighborhoods like the Garden Hill neighborhood, which I know was excluded but
still might be affected. Specifically, I'm looking at my
Rent going up about $100 to $150 per month this next year. And with this new implementation of a new
district, more businesses in that district could affect that further in the future. More specifically
in 2020, this property that I live at at 1015 North Lincoln Street was valued at 401, $500.
And now in 2025, it is valued at $874,300. That is a 111% increase in property valuation in just five
years. That taxation is put on the tenants of that unit. Another issue I have is that this area does
not support the foot traffic and the car demand that will be developed from this neighborhood.
I'm also concerned about the increase in intoxicated drivers within this neighborhood. It's very known
if you live in this neighborhood, there is a lot of drunk driving, especially amongst students. And
I've seen it myself. I saw it last night. And with further development of bars and businesses and restaurants
within that area that specifically do serve alcohol, I'm concerned that will be
Furthered issue. I'm also concerned that it would be an issue between travel between downtown and this
new neighborhood people going between bars and driving Another concern I have with private development
within this neighborhood Specifically commercial property is outpacing our municipal development. So
I'm mainly concerned about our
Development of the Monroe water treatment plant and the demand there. I know you guys are going to see
that soon, but This would only further demand from an already exacerbated system Of infrastructure that
desperately needs upgraded So I think a key takeaway from this is a timeline to achieve our sustainable
municipality development specifically for commercial properties And that's your time. Thank you
Sorry, wasn't paying attention to the clock. Is there anybody else who would like to give public comment
on the amendment? Oh, okay. Go ahead and unmute the first person and please state your name clearly
for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. Good evening, Madam President. This is Chris Herring
from the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. I'm going to stick to the amendment that I'm going
to talk about and I want to thank
Ms. Cooper Smith and ESD for changing the boundaries. The stadium district concept began 16 months ago,
advanced by a Northside hotelier who recognized the potential for this area. It is not to displace,
diminish neighborhood identity. Absolutely none of that. This is a commercial venture, not a neighborhood
one. Neighborhood identity is going to stay the same.
And so we'll talk about this further in the next public comment, but I wanna make sure we realize where
we're coming from and the improvements made to the boundaries from where they were earlier. Thank you
for your time. I look forward to speaking again. Thank you. And we had one other person on Zoom. Please
state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. Hi, this is Paul Russo.
I live a quarter mile north of the Heartworks Brewery. And regarding the boundaries, I appreciate that
my neighborhood, just to the west of college, a residential neighborhood, is not inside of this. I think
that's appropriate. And what I'm mystified by is why the vast areas of college student housing between
just to the east of Showers Park
there are probably, oh my gosh, I don't know how many, three, four, 5,000 units of housing in there.
And I don't know why that's in a district that is, whose purpose is primarily commercial. That doesn't
make much sense for me. As an overall comment, I don't know if this is the time to say it. I'm just,
my first, I know very little about this, just learned about it actually. And I'm wondering if the,
One of the main purposes is to serve as a welcoming to people because this is such a common gateway
into Bloomington. Well, then why not call it that? The gateway district instead of the stadium district,
because the name stadium doesn't really seem to have anything to do with the purposes. I don't know.
Maybe you've already thought that through, but that's all I have to say. Thank you.
Thank you. Does anybody else want to make a comment on the amendment? All right, we'll come back to
council members. Any final either follow-up questions or comments on the amendment? I have a question.
Oh, I'm sorry. I have a follow-up question from Mr. Russo's comment.
Why is it that all that student housing east of North Walnut Street is part of the district Councilmember
Stokes for So that area is zoned as mixed-use student and so one of the things that that we were thinking
about when creating this map was wanting to have a continuous map as opposed to like you know things
dotted all over the place and if you're
Familiar with that area. You'll know like on the corner of the bypass. There is a whole strip that is
very commercial. There are restaurants Whether there's at least one restaurant on that corner There
is a car wash. There's some other things and then coming up
Walnut there. There's another couple of restaurants along walnut and then what you may not Think about
or realize is a lot of those large student complexes in there have some first-floor retail
or have possibility of first-floor retail So there's actually a couple of restaurants in that first
in some of the new first-floor retail off of done And so it's the kind of thing where we're going well
if and and there's a hotel or two in there, too I think actually so it's it's a space that is zoned
such that a
as these complexes are going up they can potentially have retail commercial businesses in them and certainly
don't want to exclude those either existing or developing businesses from that space. So mixed use zoning
districts is kind of interesting and that's why you know there was more extension on the original map
kind of recognizing that you know
These are mixed use districts. And so specifically around Maple Heights where we did a little bit more
refinement in that corner by 17th and college. There's more like mixed use district in there. So it's
the kind of thing like might not be commercial right now. But in theory it could be commercial in the
future. So we were not just thinking what is right now but also what could be in the future. And so
that's where you know we took out some of that stuff in Maple Heights that is not commercial now took out
the the Garden Hill areas that are not commercial now even though they're also mixed-use student but
that other mixed-use student district already has a lot of commercial in our mixed into that space so
I hope that that answers your question yes and I hope that that answers for mr. Rousseau to in terms
of that reasoning any other either councilmember comments or follow-up questions yes councilmember sorry
Thank you so much. Maybe a question for either one of you. When we're thinking about the map specifically,
because that's what I'm allowed to comment on right now, who's our archetype? Because this is a marketing
experience. So who's our persona or archetype that we're sort of designing this space for? I'm not sure
what you mean by that. Like the type of business or? Persona. No.
do a marketing, like if you think about brand and marketing, right? You think about who you're branding
to. And then you come up with like a shape that you go, this is gonna mean something to that person.
So I'm just curious, like who is our, yeah. I know I used the term correctly. Yeah, so like who is our
persona here?
This is a bespoke solution for Bloomington based really on the businesses that exist in the area and
taking the Miller Showers Park as the core of the district. We looked at other incentivized districts
across the state for different purposes. But there is not a city comparable to Bloomington really,
you know, here in Indiana when you're looking at other like are we do we do we think this and again, I think
This is weird, because we have to do this part before we do the part where you actually talk about the
whole thing. You've already done the whole thing, so I'm having to ask a question. It's OK. Yeah. But
do you expect this to appeal? Like, who does naming this anything appeal to? I think this is a name
that will appeal to, you know, specifically to our many, many visitors. That drive our economy every
year. And I think it will.
have little impact to the residents who will not even have to know that this name exists. It's a tag
that the businesses can use if they want to. The reason it's chosen as the stadium district and not
the gateway district is because this district, which is not just the Memorial Stadium and it's not just
football, it is this whole complex that attracts thousands and thousands of visitors to Bloomington.
And it has its own vibe and it is,
If it has an identity that flexes and changes with time So if you're driving in if you're commuting
into Bloomington, it's got one identity at 8 a.m on Monday if you're here on a Basketball night. There
was a basketball game tonight. You can see the cones going up And the district starts to change for
people who live in the area some of them
Love this proximity and some of them are chagrined by the activity the inconvenience of the traffic
patterns changing You can even hear music permeating the district when there are you know activities
happening outside in the
the athletics complex area from Dunn Street near Griffey you can hear even the north marching band practicing
in those football games so there there are elements that carry throughout the district and I'm afraid that
I haven't focused on selling it and I haven't painted a real picture for why it's the stadium district,
but it's very purposeful that it be the stadium district. My question just as really, and that, lots
of interesting thoughts there for later too, but I'm just interested in the question of if our persona
is mostly like, if we think this is a marketing and branding activity for visitors to Bloomington, of
whom people are alums, there's a lot of categories that fall under visitor.
is just about the sort of
whether this area feels continuous to a person. So again, it's that question about this thing on the
left side here, those two little cutouts, whether it matters that that feels like I'm in it and that
I'm not in it sort of argument, which I think also then goes later to concerns that people in Maple
Heights might have that if it's not super clear when the district starts and finishes for somebody who's visiting,
that has I think implications for how the district is shaped and how it's marketed, et cetera. Well,
as council member Stossberg mentioned, the shape of the district captures the commercial properties.
And so if we have primary, secondary, tertiary audiences, but our primary audience is those visitors
who are visiting Bloomington and trying to figure out where they should stay for their event. But if
they're staying in the district and they need to get baby formula or gas up their car, or they want
to figure out where to have dinner, then they're not,
It's not my thought that they will look at this map and consult it and figure out where to go, but that
they will just search up someplace. And if it has a stadium district tag, that's going to signal to
them that it's convenient. It's in the area that they're staying. And I think, too, that when you think
about the hotel applications, that's pretty helpful, especially as we're expanding our destination tourism
activities with the convention center.
Conference goers are going to want to know am I staying near the am I staying near the Convention Center?
Oh Or am I staying in a place that's apart from and so being able to Signify that there's this area
that is named the stadium district. There are hotels here. It is not a
Adjacent to but it is somewhat proximal to the convention center My last question on that line of thinking
is just what like why have a map at all? Like why why not the resolution just say that we are now? Declaring
that there is a place in the city that could be called the stadium district So that anyway if you want
to call yourself the stadium district call yourself the state part of the stadium district Why is it
important that we delineate where where it is and where it's not?
Because somebody in Maple Heights on their you know on their Airbnb thing say I'm in the stadium district
like because nobody's gonna go Well, I think that it's responsive to the feedback that we've been getting
from our community that they and I think that's one thing and then point to their feedback about Airbnbs
is spot-on that we don't want to do anything to inadvertently drive Airbnb
I'm sorry I need to say short-term rental that we do not want to drive short-term rentals in any way
shape or form that's counter to 100% of our goals here at City Hall. So I think the limits on it are
helpful and then participants within the district can use that name and if someone's on the margin if
a business is on the margin there's there's no this is this is elective right. This is there's no enforcement.
It's it's only supposed to be a value-add if the businesses want to use this handle. Thank you I just
want to add the the kind of hotelier and Airbnb aspect to it because I know I talked about that a little
bit last time and I think that it was really kind of clumsy because it's not about encouraging Airbnb
is per se but encouraging because like Airbnbs or short-term rentals are gonna exist right and
Those people who are staying there I mean we want them to be good neighbors right for the the little
bit of time that they are neighbors, but we also At least I would also like for them to frequent the
other places that they're near so that they're not driving anywhere I mean I love it when I go somewhere
else and I stay in a short-term rental and I park my car and then I never move it again because I walk
everywhere and it's
often really helpful to me in those situations or also when I go to hotels to have those little flyers
that go here. All the things that are in this district near where you are.
so that then you can access it. So when I was talking about that before, I wasn't necessarily thinking
like, ooh, this is gonna be great for Airbnbs. I was thinking, ooh, this is gonna be good for the restaurants
that are close to these places that are gonna have Airbnbs or short-term rentals, because yes, I should
not be branding it in that way, because there are a lot of different short-term rental companies and
options. And when I was looking then at the map of Airbnbs specifically, it's like, yeah, there's kind
of a disproportionate number of listings over there versus
other areas of town and like that's because of that proximity to the stadium whether we name it stadium
or not like that's going to happen. And so then it's trying to give some
advantage to those other businesses, those restaurants, those shops, those other frequenting places.
I mean, even places like there's a hair-cutting place over there. It's like, you know, you might be
on vacation and maybe this is the only time you have time to get your hair cut. So you might want to
know that information. And so being able to have this as an advertising tool, I think, can be really
powerful, especially when we're talking about small businesses.
And there's a lot of small businesses over there that are really kind of tucked in that I don't think
are highly noticeable. And then in terms of the other audience for this that I think is really important
to keep in mind are
Bloomington residents as a whole not necessarily just the people who live near there But I mean this
is an area that does get a lot of traffic when folks come in for events at In at the stadium or in the
sports complex But that means at the times of year where where there are not those events. It is slower
over the summer It's slower and those are deliberate times where like I as a as a townie go
Okay, I want to maybe try to frequent some of those things that I don't want to frequent When there's
the big crowds in those places from you know big crowds of visitors But I might want to you know know
that they exist and then frequent them on the slow time. So that also provides this This this tool for
advertising for these folks that are going like hey, it's the middle of July right now we we need your
business over here in the stadium district because we want to keep surviving and
And so that's the other kind of audience that not solely the visitors, but also working around those
times when you have visitors. Because we can predict that, right? I'm sure that these restaurants over
there can look at different IU schedules and go, this is when we're gonna be busy, this is when we're
gonna be busy, and this is when we're gonna have a slow time. So how can we advertise our slow time
in a different way to a different population that gets some other people over here?
Yeah, any other questions Are there comments on the amendment before we vote comments by council members,
I guess we already had to comment from councilmember Stossberg Oh Councilmember Rallo The map is a is
an improvement. So I'll say I vote yes on the amendment Any other comments
All right. I think we can call the roll on the amendment to ordinance twenty twenty five dash resolution
twenty twenty five dash eight. Yes. Rough. That's my rough. Yes. Yes. Piedmont Smith.
Yes, Stossberg. Yes. Daily. Yes. Rosenberger. Yeah. And I'm sorry. Thank you. And I vote yes. I got
you because I didn't start with you today. All right. So the vote on the amendment is eight zero. We
now go back to the resolution as a whole as it has now been amended.
Are there any other questions from council members seeing none. We will go to the public. Is there any
public comment on council members. Sorry. Do you have a question about the resolution.
Just one brief one, sorry. The question about feedback from the folks in, I mean, we've incorporated
the feedback from Maple Heights, but today the representatives are saying they're not happy with us
proceeding. I don't know, I mean, I wish I could just ask them, but not happy with us proceeding today
just to postpone it, just to get a better sense of how the neighborhoods
thinking about this, what are your thoughts on, I mean again, I said this last time, this is a marketing
exercise and so rollout matters an awful lot. This is, okay so the question is, are you asking me to
summarize what feedback I have understood from Maple Heights or what do we do with it? So we're saying
we're reflecting their feedback but then they're saying don't do it. Yes.
In my opinion, I mean, this is this is delicate and I want to convey a lot of respect and gratitude
for everyone who's put time into showing up at our public meetings and providing feedback on this map.
I really appreciate it and I'm sorry that it didn't happen immediately and before this showed up on
a council agenda. That was not acceptable. Having said that, I feel that we have incorporated the
The feedback and the concerns that we have heard By removing Almost all of Maple Heights from this map.
So if we were to remove more of Maple Heights, we would just be removing those commercial properties
in the mixed corridor So now that we've responded to that in my opinion, this is now returning to the
larger economic development strategy question and we have
a strategy in our economic development framework to promote different nodes of commercial activity across
Bloomington. This is one of them. So we are constantly looking at downtown, how we lift that up. We're
looking at what's happening south of downtown. We're looking at the trades district. I'm thinking a
lot also about college mall in the area over there, what's happening. We're working to organize businesses
on the west side where there is like always ice cream and a ton of locally owned businesses still within
city limits that I think
We've been neglected for a long time. So we're working in ESD We're working across the city to try to
lift up our local business owners and help them self-organize and then eventually promote those nodes
as well so that when we have whether it's residents or visitors we have a lot of options for people who
Who we can invite into to different places of Bloomington So the stadium district is one piece of that
broader strategy to promote distinct nodes of commercial activity And I and So, yeah, I guess I'll leave
it there. Is that a good answer? Okay, I shouldn't trail off like that Councilmember Stossberg
I guess I want to want to add to that a little bit in terms of some of the email exchanges that that
I had with community members that one of the One of the Areas of current concern was the name and the
names association with IU and It's no secret that we're a pretty progressive and liberal town and that
there's some town gown divides right now and especially
gown administration kind of divides. And so that was something that was highlighted to me in a couple
different email threads. And that's not something that could get resolved with more time and another
delay, I don't think. I think that that's something that's more endemic. I do appreciate that one public
commenter actually had an alternate name suggestion. It's not one that I love because I don't think
that it's really
describes as a wayfarer. I mean, so why would the north side be a gateway? If you're not from Bloomington,
why wouldn't the west side be a gateway? Or why wouldn't the east side be a gateway? A lot of people
come in from Brown County, from the east side. So I think that that kind of name could be debatable
about where it is that we're talking about. But it's less debatable in terms of stadium, in terms of
this area, and kind of facing the reality that this is part of that space. The stadiums, the whole sports complex
of what is there and so I don't think that you know a Delay would necessarily help with that in terms
of that Yeah, I think I'm answering the question That's what I thought that I was doing because he wanted
to know about email I did not see a connection between what you were saying and his question, but if
there was I do not Other questions, please from council members
Councilmember Rallo Yeah, I I see the utility in this I I have some trepidation about The name I guess
I understand It's near the stadium and so it's sort of going a lot of the I'm prefacing it right now.
Okay? Doing a contextual are we running out of time to see me?
My thinking is that we had a complaint this evening from Miss Brink About short-term rentals about every
and bees so this could actually be utilized in a commercial sense to target, you know the area for Airbnb's
as well, you know, this is I mean, I there are concerns of the neighborhood about impact and
Could be a potential impact. I mean good for business good for some local businesses Maybe not so good
for neighborhood So I'm in a quandary there My question I guess is this would potentially have that
impact number one number two The president of the Maple Heights neighborhood Association has
Said this evening that she has not had adequate time in order to Communicate this with the neighbors
and so there's a plea for more time and So I'm sensitive to that as well. Do you want to respond director
because Coopersmith? Those concerns. Yes. I'm happy to thanks. So the first question about was about
concern for inadvertently
attracting air Airbnb's to the area based on commercial activity and I do not believe that this Will
worsen the state of Airbnb's and there are other adjacent neighborhoods. I think the Airbnb market is
on its own out of outsized trajectory that is influenced by
winning football team and These other things I don't think the naming of this commercial district is
going to worsen it and then I don't think I can say much about it but I guess what I want to communicate
to the public and to the council is that we are we are very focused the administration is very focused on
Short-term rentals and what we can do to mitigate them and so looking at what systems can be put in
place because I think that degrading our commercial activity Okay, that's that's hyperbole but not taking
the opportunity to lift up our local businesses and not Capturing commercial activity where we can that's
effectively saying. Okay, we're gonna address the Airbnb short-term rental crisis
By making Bloomington less a less desirable place and I don't think that's the right solution. I think
we need to look at a policy solution for short-term rentals and we need to continue our very dedicated
work on Adding housing units to Bloomington and and that that's the way to address that problem, but
I want to acknowledge that
They're horrible. They're bad for our neighborhoods. They're they're in my neighborhood, too I've been
calling them ghost houses because You know, it's it's a non-neighbor. It's it's not a nice thing, but
I don't think that this is the legislation that's going to Be the right way to address that The second
question was about postponement I I can't answer that for you. I
And I just again like respect to the neighborhood association and the people who've shown up for this.
But I think you'll just have to weigh that on balance. Any other council members have questions.
Councilmember Rosenberger I was going to ask if
We are on the question and they still are where we are. A question I have is can someone explain the
naming process how the stadium district was decided. Council member Sasseberg or would you like to go first.
I had a conversation with a member of the chamber who brought it to me as a concept and said and who
had brought it He had gotten it from business owners in that space And it had been brought to me with
the concept of a name Actually, the the concept that came to me was sports district and I didn't like
sports district Because I felt like there were
As I just said that there are other places in Bloomington that you could call a gateway I think that
there are also other places in Bloomington. You could call a sports district And I thought that stadium
was a little bit more specific and I threw that name out as a suggestion to him Not necessarily thinking
that it was going to stick But then it apparently did So after that, yeah, and we have been
Two two behind the scenes perhaps but we've been floating this name across business meetings and we've
discussed it in detail with Civic Brand which is the branding committee that or the branding consultant
that's working on the citywide branding. And then as I mentioned at our last meeting this is.
Hardly endorsed by visit Bloomington, which is really our destination tourism brand experts. So You
know sometimes this this simple answer is the right answer and the stadium Whatever your whatever our
personal relationships are with the the tension related to town and gown right now What I've whether
we're football enthusiasts or not a stadium is a grand thing, right? It's it's a large
Monument piece of architecture in our community. It is an anchor and This simple name has been really
well well received and is supported by our expert partners Quick follow-up. Did you try to get the stadium
included in the district since it's not in it? we didn't I mean we tossed that around early on but I
Our instinct was not to include the actual stadium in the district because this is really for The it's
for the community. It's a benefit for the community and then we did Talk about it with our IU counterparts
and they they didn't Yeah, it was mutual They didn't want it They they were It wasn't negative like
it was just very
The conversation was almost more like, hey, we're doing this. We want to let you know our instinct is
not to include you. And then they were supportive of that. And it makes sense, because they're a closed
system there, right, when you're on campus.
Shunting activity to campus doesn't benefit the community but if we can drive activity to the community
When visitors are here for events that are in the sports complexes really specifically then that that
benefits the community that benefits us Thank Any other councilmember questions before we go to the
public councilmember Rallo
Yes as this is a tool for wayfaring what kind of signage will be Used This citywide civic brand well,
no, it won't be this civic brand. Sorry the city after it moves through this citywide branding will
do Hire a consultant I suspect and do some dedicated work on wayfinding So we've been talking with visit
Bloomington about that now. We know our way findings really out-of-date and
Needs to be updated. So there was a budget line for I think we were calling it a wayfinding audit in
2026 So more to come on that. We don't know what the answer will be Come to council for approval I Don't
think they I mean we have a planner here As long as they probably meet the code do I don't think that
they would would wayfinding signage come before council No
Okay. All right. Any other questions. We will go to the public then as any member of the public wish
to comment on the resolution as amended.
Thank you for signing in. Hi. I have a migraine so I'm going to read this one probably. Can you state
your name. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm Casey Green. I live in District 2 and I'm in Maple Heights and I want
to start by acknowledging all of the work and outreach that has gone on to everybody but us.
I know that there's a sense of ownership about this, but the amended proposal is conceived with the
GIS team, not with the community and not with neighboring partners. We have been begging for a constituent
meeting, which has not happened. I don't know how you feel, but a half block over is still my neighbor.
So let me tell you what this proposal does not do. It does not address the danger of crossing the college
walnut corridor. It does not address loss of sleep. It does not address
herbicide sprayed on private property during stadium move-in times, fireworks set off at random times
even when not on game day, urinating on the front lawn in the middle of the day, driving by and yelling
out the window, liberal witch, because I've reported them too many times,
grown men on my porch at my doorstep telling me that I have no right to report them because I live so
close to the stadium. I know what I'm getting into, and if I don't like it, then I need to move. I own
my home. This is all recent in the last two years, not prior.
Most of all, it does not even solve the problem that it claims to. Stadium culture bars exist downtown.
That's Kilroy's, Nick's, Yogi's. Competing with well-established history within our own community is
not a winning marketing strategy. Our focus should be on sustainable, family-friendly establishments,
and I've not heard any argument for why stadium is going to attract
Our residents during non-peak hours that name doesn't resonate and it doesn't add anything to the narrative
We should not be wasting taxpayer dollars funding police to babysit nuisance tenants And we should not
be using scarce hand resources to school Marm profit based developers
This isn't a development problem, it's an entitlement to stadium culture problem that is around our
neighborhood. We can find common ground on a commercial district, but we cannot do that unless we are
treated with at least as much dignity as every other stakeholder that has been involved already. Finally,
I would suggest it's irresponsible to take ownership of a proposal that inherently puts residents in
antagonistic relationships with their future neighbors.
Passing this proposal with full knowledge of the damages that we are already incurring just in the recent
year Without any attempt to mitigate the inevitable loss of quiet peaceful enjoyment suggests alignment
with those interested in driving residents out for profit And the developer behind my house has indicated
that is their intention And that is all I have to say
Thank you. Is there anybody on Zoom who would like to comment? Okay, we'll go with the first person
on Zoom. Please state your name and then you'll have up to three minutes. Good evening again,
Madam President. This is Chris Herringy from the Bloomington Chamber of Commerce and I can't believe
what I'm hearing tonight. The stadium district is to help anchor a positive upbeat vision for a corridor in
desperate need for investment that helps current residents, existing businesses, that gets future investment.
This is a nothing burger. I'm sorry, Mr. MG, could you hold on just a moment? Council Attorney Lanner,
I'm sorry, we have only five people in person. We have five council members present in the room, so.
Okay, we need to. Recess until.
I'm very sorry. Mr. MG will let you start from the beginning No, no, we will do a five-minute recess
is that and Then we will come back Sorry Okay Let us reconvene the council meeting and we were at public
comment on resolution 2025-18
as revised, and Mr. Christopher M.G. was speaking via Zoom, and we'll let him start afresh with his
comments. Apologies, by the way. I didn't know I had the power. Thank you again, Councilmember
Piedmont-Smith, Christopher M.G., Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. You know, I'll get to a little
bit of what we were talking about and not some of the things that already been mentioned. Ms. Cooper-Smith
did a great job.
This area has some blight in it. It needs some help. And I don't think we're starting from that point
or kind of mentioning that. I'm a bloomerang and if you look 30 years ago when I was in college the
place does not look the same and the same meaning not as good. This district is the least we can do
to help trigger some much needed private investment. Signal some commitment to that area and reduce
barriers for entrepreneurship. We've heard the Airbnb argument.
What about the argument that may happen that people may stay at hotels more because the district is
more thriving? Maybe there's another hotel that appears that makes it more thriving and gets people
out of Airbnb's. This is not about rewriting zoning or pushing boundaries. We want neighborhoods to
have the same wonderful character they do. It's about defining the area that has its own moment and
giving a name that reflects vitality, opportunity, harnessing IU athletics. Athletics.
IU football centers don't need health marketing. Problems you see on game days are going to be the problems
you're going to see anyway. That's just an issue that we're going to have that residents probably have
already been dealing with for the past years that we've heard. This doesn't change that and make it
worse, make it better. But however, we want to make this beyond the game days where summer camps, a
lot of summer camps, athletic camps are all over there. We want to market that area so Northside becomes
a little bit of a hub for visiting families.
families in the Midwest, a clear distinct identity that helps guide them, local restaurants, hotels,
and retailers, that Councilmember Stosberg mentioned quite eloquently. It strengthens small business,
generating much needed tax revenue for Bloomington. And we want to help make sure we don't characterize
this as some sort of marketing gimmick or Trojan horse for something else. It couldn't be further from
the truth. The chamber supports this, have been pushing for this.
16 months ago. This is locally originated, strengthening the North Side economy, giving it a sense of
place. We believe this measured fact-based progress is not cynicism. It's giving much-needed recognition
to an area that's gone far undeserved, the type of investment we're hoping for. So let's vote for this.
We don't need to put it off. We just need to move forward with
naming something and sort of hopefully this spurs some much needed investment in an area too long neglected
here in Bloomington. I thank you for your time tonight and I thank Mr. Rawa for not interrupting me
this final time. I can't but thank you. Appreciate it. Is there anybody else in council chambers who
would like to make a comment. I believe we have one other person on Zoom.
So that person can please state their name for the record and then have up to three minutes to comment.
Hi, this is Paul Rousseau again. Thank you for answering my questions about the district name and about
the inclusion of the large area of student housing between Walnut and Dunn. I regret not having the
time to be involved in the process, but I understand the need for a plan to help small businesses along
College and Walnut because I've seen the boarded up Steak and Shake building almost every day for two years.
In support of the goals of this project, I implore you once again to use enforcement and education to
reduce the speed of motor vehicles. The Walnut College Speedway is not only dangerous, it is also not
conducive to attracting business. Drivers who turn off of college or Walnut routinely use the bicycle
lane as a turning lane. I see this almost every day. I think they do this as a way to slow down for
their turn
without inviting a rear end collision. I'm not asking you to amend the district, but this seems like
a good time to remind you that lower vehicle speed is an additional important factor in supporting local
small businesses. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have anybody else on zoom? Okay. We will come back to
council members for final comments on this item.
Who would like to make a final comment? Council member Rosenberger. I'll go first because I also kind
of have a question for council members here that if you wish to speak on in your comment, that could
be helpful. I am not, I do not think this is ready. And so from my perspective, I'm okay postponing
it, which I think would end up being indefinitely because we have a,
The deliberative back in that week and then it becomes the holiday. So I think it would probably come
back at the beginning of 2026. So I'm OK with that or I'm OK voting no tonight and then it can still
come back at the beginning of 2026. So I guess I'm wondering what people have an appetite for tonight
if they plan on not voting yet for it or not not wanting to vote.
Some thoughts that I have around it if we do put on it and so some good thoughts I would like. Yes,
you to go to a maple Heights neighborhood Association meeting I would like there to be a process for
recommending and choosing a name for the district that happened for Eagleton Avenue, it's one 3 this
is an entire district, I think.
It's a lot more meaningful to everyone, like residents of our city, if they're involved in something
like that. And I think there's a lot more buy-in. I know some businesses like the named stadium district,
but I have not heard a resident say that they like it or that want to live in or near it. And that is
problematic for me. Wayfinding is hard when the name of it isn't even in the district. So to me,
You know, it's not it isn't in it when what director Cooper said was Miller our park is at the core
of the district. I think that that help with way finding of the name Miller shower district potentially
I mean I'm not really here to give ideas I think that if I were north of downtown no no also in my direction
in the city and way finding.
Something like north of downtown is also year round it's not the stadium kind of you can Saturday.
A year. I think you when we talk about the stadium, we are encouraging tailgate culture or I think that
the 3 that the ball stadium culture. I don't know that is that what we want to be there that what residents
want I do think
it would be great to create this neighborhood of our comp our comp plan that you know we need
more neighborhood. And when I hear neighborhood have I think about the health of you live there and
what they would want and I don't think we need to necessarily be at odds of visitors versus residents
and what they might want I think you know a brewery wants both inside and they want a sense of community
right and like that comes from my creating a place where people
want to live and not just visit, I think. So stuff to think about. I think the college walnut study
and redesign, as Mr. Russo said, is also really important. I hear, I mean, there's so much talk about
housing wrapped into this, and I also can't get it out of my mind that we're talking about economic
development as a way to attract visitors, more and more visitors to a city when we have a housing crisis.
We don't have homes for people. People can't afford the homes that are here. And someone who lives in
a neighborhood is gonna buy a hamburger a lot more from a neighborhood pub than someone who visits twice
a year. So to me, working on our housing problem is just so important when we're looking at economic
development. And that's, again, where I'm like, doesn't have to be visitors versus residents. So what
can we do so residents are happy and visitors are attracted here, I guess.
So, I'm big on postponing or voting no tonight, but still, I'm very excited about the district and the
River District itself once that becomes a thing for discounted liquor licenses. I always also think
this as a hub for college students to hang out is important because a lot of them live up there and
then they might not walk or bike or drive drugs down to Kirkwood. Thanks. All right. What other council
members would like to comment?
I'm sure So councilman Rosenberger's comments, I I think are are good ones and some of this Proposed
district lies in her council district. And so that matters to me I see advantages to this for businesses.
I understand the chamber's advocacy. I appreciate the work that's been done by
Director Cooper Smith and by my colleague President Stossberg, but I think that The outcome seems plausibly
good the process seems to me to have been not optimal and That concerns me We've had neighbors come
out and describe that they haven't been party to the discussions on this and
the outcome might have been different. And so I have a lot of trepidation about that, not just in this
case, but whether it sets some kind of precedent that I prefer to avoid. I would like a process that's
inclusive, especially people who are living in that area that were proposed to name. So I would be voting
a no on this, or for postponement. That's where I find myself.
So I will be Waiting to hear my fellow colleagues about their preference. Thanks Any other council members
care to comment councilmember Flaherty Thank you This is a really interesting discussion and I appreciate
it There's there's a book called suburban nation that I read ten years ago
that was probably the first urban planning book I read of now many urban planning books. And it introduces
a concept about pods of development, and that the fundamental problem with development from the 1950s
to even today in some cases, but let's say 2000, is that we thought of everything as separate. Commercial
here, residential, multifamily here, single family over here, business parks here.
has a lot of negative effects. It really fragments a community. It creates highways in the middle of
town, for instance, to get people around because we no longer have a connected network. And while that's
not exactly what we're talking about here, I think it really resonates with what I found to be kind
of wrong-headed, I guess, about thinking that this is just about commercial and that we can ignore the
residential or just pull them out when the neighborhoods like Garden Hill and Maple Heights say that
They really find this quite offensive and not at all attractive to them. So I think when I think of
quality of place or strengthening Bloomington's identity, sense of place and pride, the things that
are called out in the presentation from staff about what this is about, it just doesn't seem like this
is it. We shouldn't separate these things. We should think of residential and mixed use
and commercial as part of a whole. And I think Councilmember Rosenberg was saying similar things. When
we look at the comprehensive plan and talk about developing, you know, nodes, mixed-use nodes outside
of the downtown, it's not meant to be separate from residential. It's meant to be integrated with it.
So I think the evidence of, you know, that this has kind of missed the mark, and I think the process
was the reason for that in large part, is the opposition of the
Surrounding residential residents, you know residential neighborhoods in large part. I Think this doesn't
help bridge a town gown divide. It sounds like it further drives it actually I think You know Stadium
district personally, I don't really care for it. I guess the stadium is not in it It's also you know
in the same way that one said the Gateway District could could be any gateway to town also
There's east, south, and north directions from the stadium. This is only west of the stadium. Those
could all be stadium districts, too. But that's kind of beside the point. What I think a good name is,
or what one or two people think a good name is, or one set of constituents thinks a good name is, is
not really what it's about. It's about a process and about getting buy-in and a collective vision for
what's needed here. So the name is maybe just emblematic, actually, of a bigger issue, which is, again,
that we need to actually
have something closer to a positive vision that people buy into. And I think the first commenter during
the full comment, not the amendment period, really had some great points that this is about more than
economic development. It is about a set of values and about a normative direction for the area. Mr.
Grosso also talked about
You know, the dangers of our college walnut corridor. These are our highest injury corridor we have.
We've had people die on those streets recently. And they need fixing. It's something I've not heard
a lot of support for from the administration. I've seen a lot of action on, frankly. And this is not
separate. The safety of those streets, the walkability of those streets is directly tied
to the reimagination, the reinvention, the redevelopment of that district, which very much does need
it. Mr. M.G.'s right about that. It needs investment. It needs to be a quality place for people to go.
And I think we are headed that way. But I think this process and this identity, really the name for
it, is the wrong direction. And so I'm also a no vote tonight and or in favor of postponing indefinitely
so that we can come back, I don't know, three to six months later after a process that actually brings in
and gets residents on board, including in the values of what's needed in this area. Not purely for the
sake of the businesses and their bottom line, but also for the residents. What does it need? It might
be slower speeds, increased safety. It might be other things. So I would like to see that. And that's
where I sit on it. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember Daley. Thank you very much. Yeah, I agree. This
has been a great conversation. There's been a lot of really good points on all sides, I think.
There's a lot of value in many of the points That have said I can see both sides of the issue. I don't
I don't want to vote no on this because I like the idea of building up this area and and focusing on
economic development, but I also don't want to do that at the expense of the residents who live there
so I would be heavily in favor of
of indefinitely tabling this so that we can work on it and make it stronger and get everybody feeling
good about it. I don't know if it's a fix in terms of finding a different name or taking another look
at the maps. I certainly understand the reasoning for the maps, but I also certainly understand the
hesitation on many
The residents issues so I would yeah councilmember Rosenberger, you know initially asked how we would
feel about Postponing it and I would support that. So thank you Councilmember sorry, thank you so much
and echoing my colleagues. I first off this has been fun. I I also think in favor not think I am in
favor of postponement I
In one sense, I mean we're saying that this is a marketing activity and I think that we're you know
accomplishing our goal of you know talking an awful lot about this district we're bringing an awful
lot of attention to it and you know both externally as well I've I you know have the joy of having some
of the best
Students of all time who've reached out and has said like oh, I think that's really interesting that
you're doing this so great You know starting mission accomplished however, and the thing that I've you
know said all along no matter what we're voting on I think that and I think that as councilmember Rallo
said most eloquently process matters here and one of the things that You know makes us the city that
we are is that I mean you know
We're weird, right? And we should feel ownership of all of the things that happen here. And so the idea
of creating a marketing agenda that the people that are being marketed, that the people that make up
this culture, that the people that make up this city aren't part of that persona, I think is really
kind of problematic. That you really want the people of the city to be able, even if in jest, and so
there have been
suggestions that we name this Dribble Creek or something like that. Now, I don't think that fits the
persona of the external thing that we're trying to achieve, but it does something to residents, right?
It creates a conversation, creates ownership, and I think you really want that. What I've heard from
Maple Heights District is that not
a complete rejection of the idea of trying to focus and think about place and space here, but wanting
to be involved in the process. And I think that that in and of itself is enough for us to say that we
shouldn't move forward with haste on this. You certainly don't want to create the opposite outcome that
we claim to be wanting to do. So for that reason, I'd be very much for postponing this.
But also, as I think other colleagues have said, I get what we're trying to do. I think it is the right
thing for us to do. I think that it is in the broad sense of things. I think that we want to have a
lot of different districts around the city that we can focus economic activity in. And again, I mean, you know.
Yeah, so I'll stop there but I just I do think that the most important point is that if we're not involving
the residences as I said Two or three weeks, however long ago and it really is a sort of non-starter
for me. So, thank you Other comments on the resolution Council member Stossberg Thank you. Um, I
Didn't write out a speech for this so I think the first thing I want to address is some of the members
of the public who have expressed some concerns about what I'll say is their quality of life right now
currently even without this district and the challenges that they're facing with some of the issues
over there related to From what I understand
Stadium and visitor traffic and those sound like very real and serious issues and that absolutely needs
enforcement by some arm but the economic development department is not the arm that deals with that
and so those are issues that This may have the certainly brought these issues to light for me personally
and maybe for other council members maybe for the
larger community as a whole. And it actually goes along well with Ms. Brink's comment way back in the
beginning, general public comment about some concerns that she had actually shared with me about another
East Side Airbnb or short term rental. And like those are very real issues and it's not just the economic
piece of short term rentals. It's also that party piece because people come and they don't necessarily then
know or care about our noise ordinance, or know or care that they're maybe staying a night or two next
to somebody with a couple of small kids that needs to get up to go to work the next day. And those are
very real issues that, as Director Coopersmith said, I don't think that this designation is going to
hurt that. It's also not gonna help that. And something else clearly needs to help that.
And I think that these two things are getting tangled in some ways that make it challenging.
So I wanted to speak to that for sure. I also wanted to speak to several commenters have mentioned this
idea of promoting this area for bars and competing with the Kirkwood Bar area for that kind of drinking.
That is not in the conversations that we have had. That is not the kind of business that is being promoted.
And I know early on, and there's been some reference, Council Member Rosenberger just referenced the
Riverfront District. And that is an entirely separate piece of led
Legislation that is unrelated but that also would not be a promotion of bars In terms of how it has
been discussed and envisioned it has never been about bars. It has always been about about expanding
family-friendly options down there and if we also want to think about just in terms of folks who go
to events of the stadium and sporting events there are tons of families that that
go to these events with kids of all ages. And so having that family-friendly business thing, that is
what we have been focusing on. And I understand that in terms of what y'all as
in the residential spaces near there don't necessarily have that experience because the families that
might stay in those short-term rentals or go to those games are not the ones that are urinated on your
lawn. They're not the ones that are really invading your space. You probably don't even necessarily
realize they're there because they're being family friendly in the ways that you yourself are family
friendly. So I just want to acknowledge that.
That that those are some very real issues that need to be faced over there one way or another my
Motivation and sponsoring this because it's a little outside of my frame of reference in terms of an
economic development tool In case y'all didn't notice that is not what I've been generally focused on
But I thought that this was this opportunity that I was faced with this This is you know, kind of a
strange area because it's district 3 and into district 2 and originally started a little bit of 6 to
was like, wow, this is an opportunity to add something to the space for these business owners in the
space, and that was my motivation for doing this. And I still think that it needs to be done.
I think that it really needs to be done. I would prefer to have yes votes on this tonight. I said going
into it like, well, I'd rather not postpone it indefinitely. I'd rather just take a no vote. But I appreciate
what Councilmember Daley said about saying she doesn't really want to vote no on it. But also, it feels
like there's some issues related to that space that prevent her from voting yes. So I guess at that
point, I'd rather postpone it. I only have two seconds left.
So I'll stop there. Thanks. Thank you. I will take a few minutes for comments. So I'm basically going
to reiterate pieces of different colleagues comments because a lot of good points were raised here tonight.
I think process does matter and it's
really not acceptable that there was never a meeting with the neighborhoods that were first included
and now directly adjacent to the proposed district. Also so that's one thing. I'm also very much supportive
of Councilmember Flaherty's argument that we shouldn't look at the city as pods like commercials here.
Residential is here. You know employment is here.
It should be viewed as a whole. So what I kept hearing in favor of this resolution was that, well, this
is just for the businesses. It's just for the businesses. Well, we really shouldn't be compartmentalizing
like that. I mean, when I go to another city to visit, I enjoy the real experience and not like the
tourist experience. And that real experience comes from mixed use.
comes from your neighborhood restaurant or your small gift shop or whatever that is in a neighborhood.
So in that respect, I don't like the proposal itself. So I don't like the process. And I am not much
in favor of the proposal itself. And I guess that's all. I don't need to go on and on.
Those are strong enough arguments that I would vote no tonight. I don't really see that this is going
to come back as anything different. But I guess if we want to postpone, then we could postpone.
I just think, oh, I know. I remember the other thing I want to say. Way at the beginning when I first
heard about this, I was thinking, you know, we have a Walnut College corridor study.
Where the goal is to make this area more safe and if we're Attracting more people to come and visit
and to spend time in this area before we've made it more safe That just seems like the cart before the
horse so I also don't know if postponing indefinitely like procedurally Can we do that over a new legislative
cycle which will start January 1st. I don't know. I'm more inclined to just vote no because I don't
really want I just I don't see that there is much benefit here to go through all this again frankly.
All right. That's my comment. If council member rough doesn't have a comment we can go to round two.
Council member rough do you have a comment.
Well, I guess I would just say that I don't necessarily agree with some recent comments that nothing
good could really come of this if we went back to improve the process and be a little more thoughtful
and gauge a little more. I think some good, larger good things can come from this, but I don't think
That's going to happen if we move forward with it right now like this. We're going to miss an opportunity
to maybe generate something that's that does feel bad. That feels good and brings some some some benefits
to the area and to the whole community. So my instinct would be to postpone. But if it comes to forcing
a vote or there's a vote tonight up or down I'll probably have to vote down.
But not because I don't think there's potential here. OK. Thank you. So we have council members are
allowed up to additional two minutes. Does anybody want to take advantage of that or we can also entertain
a motion. Council member Rosenberger I was just going to ask.
if it would be possible for attorney later to just brief folks quickly on the idea of postponing indefinitely
and what that would look like coming back versus voting no and having a new resolution come back. Attorney
later. The motion to postpone indefinitely essentially would would kill
That the resolution and it would need to come back at a later time In the later time is it well, yes,
there's there's no There's no prohibition on ever bringing this resolution again, I think obviously
based upon the comments tonight it would need to go through a
potentially a different process and maybe have a different map et cetera. But the name postponing
indefinitely is a little misleading because it does operate to to kill the motion. Council member Rosenberg
does that answer your question. All right. Do we have any motion or further comments. Council member
Stossberg.
Yeah, I just want to respond to a couple things that councilmember Piedmont Smith just said about the
councilmember Flaherty's
point about the pods and the integration of commercial and residential and say that, yeah, this was
like a commercial kind of initiative, but one of the rationales of the first map was, you know, including
the areas that, according to our zoning districts, have potential for small businesses, like what you
just described, Councilmember Piedmont-Smith. But it was very much like, okay, those areas that are
generally residential right now and have very few of those small businesses were not interested and
very strongly not interested, which is why
was separated then and that clarification was separated because in terms of the zoning over there, it
is mixed. It is mixed use zoning. It's mixed use student zoning. It's mixed use medium scale. And those
residential districts that are there are like the R4, the RH. It's like the higher density residential
spaces that allow for various small business development in them.
And I think that that's one of those complex moments where it's like wow, there's a real short-term
rental challenge over there that I don't think that we knew about I didn't know about it that and and
it was not raised to my attention when I I believe I spoke with Councilmember Rosenberger about this
last year very briefly and I it was not mentioned to me by
the ESD department either, so I'm not sure that they knew about it either, but clearly there is a real
problem over there, which I think makes that really hard. And the second thing I wanted to talk about
real quick was that issue with college walnut and that pedestrian space, because I think it's sort of
a chicken and an egg scenario in some ways. So do we wait the years and years and years that it's gonna
take to get funding and figure out college and walnut changes in order to give the small businesses
that are there some kind of prop
Like is that what we do because I think that that's failing those small businesses that are over there
right now. Thank you Additional follow-up comments councilmember Flaherty Yeah, I briefly just wanted
to note that like I think functionally a no vote tonight or postponing definitely are the same thing
to me it doesn't really matter but postponing definitely I think echoes this sort of sentiment that
most folks have had which is that there's something here that
there were just some process problems and maybe some substance and outcome problems that we'd like to
see corrected. So I think there's general support for the idea that reinventing this area, this gateway,
this core around Miller Showers is a good idea. And so I just wanted to reiterate that. I will use it
as a moment to clarify too that while I brought in a zoning concept to talk about pods, I wasn't actually
referring to zoning.
I was referring to sort of mentality, and in this case, the fact that the residential areas strongly
rejected it as a symbol that actually we've gotten this wrong. We need to be thinking about it in how
does the district itself serve both economic and residential interests? That is, how is this quality
of place for the people who live here? That's what it means. I mean, that's what quality of place is about.
I think it's about the focus on the economic value alone was what was misplaced. I was drawing an analogy
from the zoning concept of, you know, different pods of development and that type of separation.
So that's it. Thanks. Council Member Rosenberger. Hi. Yes, I think everyone just said really awesome
things tonight. So thanks everyone.
Council members and folks in the audience and Director Cooper Smith. I would like to then make a motion
to postpone resolution 20 25 18 indefinitely. OK. Yeah there's an amendment so this would be the amended
resolution. Oh true. I would like to make a motion to
Postpone ordinance 2025 dash 18 as amended indefinitely. It can be withdrawn. It can be withdrawn. I
don't think so. It's just like any other motion to postpone. It's just instead of postponing to a certain
point in time it's postponing indefinitely.
So I think the regular Roberts rules apply as postponing and so we don't need to do anything with the
original motion. The original motion to adopt does not need to be addressed. No this supersedes that
in my understanding. Yes yes. This is a motion that addresses that. Is this a motion debatable. Yes.
OK. So are there any.
Comments about the motion Well council member Stossberg I'm just gonna say I'm gonna vote no to postpone
it and definitely just because I I mean Councilmember Flaherty's right it effectively like does the
same thing as voting no on the ordinance or or or the resolution or I mean
Postponing it indefinitely kills it in the same way that a no vote on the resolution kills it. So I
don't want to kill it in that way tonight, because as I just said, I think that we need to support the
business in that area in the ways that we can. And I kind of fully understand that majority rules. And
so the majority, from what I've heard so far, is going to postpone this indefinitely. And so then that
really does just mean that it's more work being done then to figure out
how to support this area in similar ways and bringing forth an entirely new piece of legislation next
year. Any other comments on the motion to postpone it. Definitely. All right. Clerk McDowell could you
please call the roll. Yes yes.
Rollo. Yes. Piedmont Smith. Yes. Stossburg. No. Daly. Yes. Rosenberger. Yes. Asari. Yes. Flaherty. Yes.
The motion to postpone indefinitely has been passed by a vote of seven to one. I will turn the gavel
back to President Stossburg.
Great. Thank you. I'm on to the next thing That is you Okay, I move that ordinance 2025 dash 32 be introduced
and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second Thank you. It's been moved and seconded to introduce
ordinance 2025 32. Will the clerk please call the roll on that motion councilmember Rallo? Yes, Piedmont
Smith. Yes Stossburg. Yes daily
Yes, Rosenberger Yeah, sorry. Yes Flaherty. Yes and rough. Yes Thank you. That motion passes will a
clerk please read Ordinance 2025-32 to amend title 20 the unified development ordinance of the Bloomington
Municipal Code Regarding use table amendment urban agriculture agriculture commercial the synopsis is
This amendment introduces a new land use urban agriculture commercial. This new land use would allow
some expanded services and offerings within the city for urban agriculture uses beyond the current similar
land use of urban agriculture non-commercial. The new proposed land use would allow for an outdoor education
component on site employees and year round retail sales for produce grown on the property. This use
is proposed to be a conditional accessory use in the R1
through our four our M and our H districts and a permitted use in all other districts. There are you
specific standards a new definition and related adjustments to the numbering of proceeding sections
of the UDO. This ordinance is in accordance with Indiana code thirty six dash seven dash four dash six
zero zero. Thank you. I move that ordinance twenty twenty five dash thirty to be adopted.
Thank you. Before we get to the presentation part of this I want to make a couple notes. This is the
second time that we've heard this. So this is the third reading for this. And so first I want to say
last time it was amended. So we are dealing with an amended version of this already.
And I also want to make note of the memo sent to us by our counsel attorney, Lainer, regarding the changes
in procedures, because at the last meeting I said, hey, we need to deal with this within 90 days, or
it goes into effect, because that was the law before July, but they changed that. So if we don't deal
with it within 90 days, it does not automatically go into effect. However, it also seems to fall into
that category
of things if you followed along with zoning stuff. If we have a resolution asking the Plan Commission
to make a change, then the Plan Commission has 90 days to deal with it. And if they don't deal with
it, there's not really a penalty. They just haven't dealt with it. And so we have had to re-up a couple
resolutions this year because of that. This is kind of the same thing. If we don't deal with it in 90
days, there's not really a penalty. But I think that I really strongly encourage us to,
deal with it within that 90-day period. And the last day of that is November 18th. This is the last
regular session before November 18th. So we either need to vote on it tonight, in my opinion, or have
a special session planned sometime before November 18th if we can't make a decision tonight. So hopefully
that memo from our attorney made sense to everybody.
So with that having said who is going to present first from planning? Good evening, Eric Grulick development
services manager
You know as as you've mentioned this was certainly introduced last time and discussed at great length
so I don't really have much to really present tonight. I can certainly go over the overview of the proposed
changes to the ordinance if that would be beneficial or also happy to just kind of answer any questions
that may have come up from last time. So happy to take direction from you in terms of what you would
like us to do.
Are there council members who would like to hear? Presentation pieces pieces from mr. Grulick or do
we want to go straight into questions? Comes member Piedmont Smith, I Think for the benefit of the public
it might be nice to just do a quick summary. Yeah, absolutely So this kind of came about as I mentioned
last time in regards to several
instances within our comprehensive plan as well as climate action plan that called for Changes within
the zoning code to promote the urban agriculture use within the community of Bloomington And so this
is something that had been promoted within these documents for a long time But in order to kind of best
appropriate approach it from a holistic standpoint It really kind of from staff's perspective seemed
appropriate to introduce this as a new land use and allow this with use specific standards with
within the zoning code however to adopt this within the zoning code any changes to the use table require
notification to the city as a whole and so this had been just kind of sitting on the back burner for
a while for an opportunity to introduce this at a time when other pieces of legislation would come about
that would also involve changes to the use table.
So we had several pieces of legislation that were coming before the council that involved changes to
the use table So we took this opportunity to bring forward legislation that allowed this as a specific
use One of the benefits with that were is that it allows for very specific use specific restrictions
so these were
Presented last time and I can certainly kind of go through those and those were in the synopsis as well
It allowed for the education the outdoor education component had Restrictions on the number of employees
have restrictions on the number of customers that could be They're not customers, but class sizes that
could be allowed with the use as well and so those were kind of the main benefits of
Bringing this forward as a specific use introducing it in the use table and then use specific standards.
So we are promoting or proposing to allow this as a conditional accessory use in the residential districts meaning
that there has to be a permitted use on the property first and then this can be allowed as an accessory
use with conditional use approval. So in the residential districts this would have to come forward to
the Board of Zoning Appeals or hearing officer as a conditional use. It's proposed to be a permitted
use in the mixed use districts but would it be a conditional use in the residential districts.
So this is simply creating a path for it. This is not allowing it as a by-right use in the residential
districts It's only in the mixed-use districts that it would be allowed by right So we're just proposing
this as a possible use amendment or use amendment to the use table And so kind of with that overview,
I'm happy to answer any questions You know, like I said, nothing has changed from the staff's
Perspective since last time it was heard at council Thank you Councilmember questions, I also want to
acknowledge that there was an amendment a further amendment in a packet addendum earlier this week if
the sponsor of that amendment would like to introduce it No councilmember questions right now
Yes we're in councilmember questions. Councilmember Piedmont Smith Mr. Gorlick could you summarize the
differences between an addition to the teaching and the conditional use. I mean the accessory use. Could
you summarize the difference between urban ag commercial
and urban ag non commercial that which we already have. Yeah absolutely. So when when we looked
at introducing this use you know we certainly recognize that there was already an existing use within
the zoning zoning code.
Urban agriculture non-commercial and so that use was put in the zoning code a long time ago and basically
While there isn't wasn't anything in the udio that really prohibited Garden plots from occurring within
neighborhoods or areas where you were just simply growing produce for your use or You know garden plots
that neighbors when the community shared we certainly wanted to promote the that
Presence or that use or that encouragement of the use within the UDO and so that use was allowed urban
agriculture non-commercial But it came with it certain limitations in terms of the amount or the times
that you can sell From a property so it had a 180 day limit per calendar year so the urban agriculture
commercial use
does not have that limitation so you can sell from a property year round. So the intention here was
to create a use that had slightly increased usability of a property in terms of being able to teach
on a property being able to sell year round slightly different or increase in amount of greenhouses
or hoop houses that could occur with on a property. So I would say kind of those are those are the main
differences between
Urban agriculture commercial and urban agriculture non-commercial. It's just the expanded uses that
can happen to a higher standard and then the year-round sale of selling of produce May I ask a follow-up?
Yeah, I do want to note that in the amendment last time it did change names from urban agriculture commercial
to urban agriculture farmstead so to not confuse the public that is the current Proposal
So in the urban agriculture farmstead are the setbacks less The setbacks requirement from the property
line. Are they less than? In the urban ag non-commercial, are they the same? No, the setbacks didn't
change There is an increased height of five feet That is allowed for greenhouses or hoop houses
But again, you know that that height brings it up to the 20-foot which is the same height of accessory
structures within those residential districts Thank you, thank you are there other questions from council
members comes up Aralo Yeah to drill down a little bit more so as a If implemented you
office would Do site inspection potentially if there were to be Violations So yes, in other words if
there's a 25 foot tall hoop house You're alerted you come out and you say no, this is not this is prohibited.
You're a lot of 20 If you're growing
360 days a year in a hoop house. How would you? regulate that I mean, how would you know if Someone
is growing Something Greens in a hoop house and selling them to your neighbors you would you even know?
Well, so you know growing produce, you know the amount of time per year is not regulated in any capacity
No, no, I mean for sale
Okay, so yeah, so for the use urban agriculture non-commercial it has a hundred and eighty day limit
so, you know this would that certainly that can be a little bit challenging, you know, we would have
to have a Evidence that shows that this has been occurring Beyond that 180 days, you know, this is not
something that we've we've dealt with honestly of anybody complaining or a situation where this is happening
to be honest, but it could be happening and
in terms of a violation or even happening and we're just not aware of it, you know, most of the neighborhood
areas with that have Garden plots or can I have community garden areas? You know there I to my knowledge.
Honestly, I don't know that they're selling anything from them Yeah So I'm going through each of each
one of these trying to distinguish whether or not it's enforceable whether or not it is you know
The ambiguity is to me For so for instance three employees and allowance for three three employees outside.
Well Right now you can hire people to do yard work for you and that you're not limited for three people
You could have a crew of five people come and there's no time limitation. You can have them come every
day for that matter and work You know the students obviously that might be something that would be
I suppose enforceable I just I guess I what I'm saying is that this I I see that the as councilmember
Piedmont Smith was I think implying is that the current code allows Growing and commercial sale of your
produce at this point now only 180 days a year, but who's to say
What we're really talking about are the structures. It does, I guess the intensity of use is, I see
the difficulty you're undergoing here, and you're trying to, and I appreciate what you've done to try
to bring some kind of logic to this, but I don't see a big difference between the current and the proposed,
except when it comes to the intensity of use of students.
and then the structural changes.
Is that fair to say yes and the residential districts, you know that that is the main change Your the
main differences between the non-commercial and the farmstead or the homestead Use that we're proposing
would be those two elements because you know that well that was the main thing I mean one of the main
things that we were encountering challenges with that we had heard that wanted restrictions lifted a
little bit or changes made within the zoning code to allow a little bit more expansion for
For that use yeah Okay, could it I have another question, but shall I wait? Okay, why don't we wait
until around to to see if anybody else has any questions other councilmember questions because members are
Could you speak to us a little bit about the BZA process? I know that that's not what we're voting on.
I know that that's not controlled by the UDO. But can you distinguish, because this is a conditional
use, between what's being permitted, allowed, and then what needs to go through BZA, and explain a little
bit about how those two, like what governs the BZA's decisions?
you know, what enforcement capabilities does BZA have, how does the conditional permit actually work,
those type of things.
Yeah, absolutely great great question So within the zoning code you have you see have a list of permitted
uses that can occur within any zoning districts So those are things that are just allowed by right You
don't need approval from those from any boards or commissions or your neighbors And then you also have
certain conditional uses within zoning districts. So those are uses that are evaluated on a situational
basis where the board looks at what the criteria are in the zoning code for conditional uses so those
are basically
You know, general compliance criteria that are listed, so compliance with the UDO, compliance with any
other applicable regulations that might pertain to a specific use, compliance with utility service and
improvement standards, and then compliance with any prior approvals. And then in addition for conditional
uses, you have a consistency with the comprehensive plan and any other applicable plans, evaluation
of ability to provide adequate public services
facilities evaluation of any impacts on any adverse impacts and then minimizing or mitigating any of
those adverse impacts.
And then any sort of a rational phasing plan that might pertain to it So the the Board of Zoning Appeals
looks at those criteria They look at that proposed use they make findings based on those criteria and
then make a judgment So it's situational. It's locational based So in general, you know, you look at
is this conditional use is this use appropriate at this location based on this criteria? And then the
board makes a finding
Thank you. Other questions? Um, should we go to Councilman back to Councilmember Rallo and then back
to Councilmember? Sorry. I'm sorry. Ask the question that I was going to. Perfect.
The follow-up question we didn't fully address, which is, you know, we've talked a lot about enforcement
mechanisms, but through the lens of planning, does BZA have some type of an enforcement mechanism like
where they can remove a conditional use permit?
So that is not something that is built into the zoning code and we have never revoked a Conditional
use or a variance. I'm not saying that it's impossible You know, that's something that we would have
to lean on the legal department very heavily in terms of going to that length You know it
Conditional use process evaluates a property and is that use appropriate there? and so it shouldn't
be one of those things where you know a can a use whether it's a Church or a school or whatever
is appropriate this year But next year, you know a church or a school or whatever the thing isn't appropriate
You know if there are restrictions within the UDO for instance you specific or any development centers
that they are not meeting You know that's dealt with separately
You know for whatever that that infraction might be but anything that is in the udio whether to use
specific or development standards is always enforceable by the planning department and We spend hours
a day We have an enforcement staff that are working. I don't want to say non-stop but from eight to
five on Enforcement issues throughout the city on on a regular basis. So we pursue enforcement all the
time and we pursue fines all the time and
You know, that is something we deal with on a daily basis Awesome. Thank you Thank you other councilmember
questions Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, um some members of the public have described this proposal
as spot zoning How would you respond to that?
Yep. So spot zoning obviously is giving one property specific zoning allowances that nothing else around
there has. So you are you are zoning one property for one zoning district that is vastly different than
everything else around there. So this is not that you know this applies to every single property in the city.
So as we propose it right now, it is a conditional accessory use in every residential district It's
a permitted use in every mixed-use district. So it's it's not giving a special allowance for any one
property It's giving allowance for every property within this city. So it's it's definitely not spots
up May I ask a follow-up Have you has the Planning and Transportation Department been approached by
any other? property owners who would like to do the things that this proposal would allow and
So it sounds like you are referencing a specific person who is interested in pursuing this we have heard
from other members of the community That they are interested in this Thank you, thank you other councilmember questions
Okay seeing none let's go ahead and go to public comment on ordinance 2025 32 as amended last time If
you're a member of the public who would like to make a public comment regarding this amended ordinance
if you're in chambers You can make your way to the podium Sign in introduce yourself for the record
and then you'll have up to three minutes. If you're online, you can go ahead and raise your hand Is
there anybody wishing to make a public comment I
Somebody's got to go first. Go ahead and step up please make sure to sign in state your name for the
record and then you'll have up to three minutes. My name is Kathy Barry as the daughter of a small business
owner. I believe that small often family owned businesses of all kinds
contribute to Bloomington's economic and social health. No one devotes their precious time to start
any business unless they feel they can make a useful and meaningful change in the world while they earn
a living. Since the plan committee mission the plan commission meeting on August 11th I have steadily
thought about various aspects of ordinance 20 25 32 to be sure I can sincerely and with goodwill say
it is not needed.
Recently I was reminded that the business entity defined as commercial agriculture or farmstead could
be viewed as part of the compact urban form theory in favor with many city decision makers. As I understand
it I oppose compact urban form. For example in 2020 I wrote to the Common Council expressing my opposition
to ending guarantees for single family zoning.
To those who are convinced of the benefits of densification, I ask you to consider that it may be more
important to uphold the limitations and the provisions of the existing urban agriculture, non-commercial
and home occupation uses. On April 10th, 2024, a home occupation permit was granted to a family whose
business model was teaching swimming and water safety to young children.
As a courtesy to their neighbors the business owners arrange to have their teaching pool installed in
their basement. No matter how dense and walkable Bloomington may be don't working people deserve to
arrive at home and not become unwilling audiences and partners to outdoor displays promotions and outdoor
lecture venues. I say yes.
Even limits on hours for audible and visible compensated business activities, whether for profit or
not per profit, create restricted and uncompensated limits on hours of residential peace and quiet.
While some of Bloomington's largest, with some of Bloomington's largest and most growing employers running
24 hour work cycles, how could such limits be decided fairly?
When I came home from work, there was great renewal for me to see my neighbors of all ages and their
pets and toys and games, to hear their voices together with the voices of birds and other wildlife lifted
up in the rhythm of family and home life. When I walk around Bloomington, I see lots of gardening and
other evidence of sustainable living. I believe these practices, which used to be called permaculture,
are firmly established so that no provisions or conditions as added
ordinance 20 2025 32 are needed. Thank you for listening and please vote no Thank you, I see somebody
else moving in chambers as any any hands raised on zoom Okay, we'll take one more in chambers first
and then we'll take one from zoom. Please make sure that you sign go ahead sir Make sure that you sign
in there for the record and then state your name and you'll have up to three minutes. I
My name is Jeff steak. I thank you for the opportunity to talk to you today I want to start just by
saying that I'm not against mixed uses or those sorts of planning things at all They can be great actually
mixed use neighborhoods if they're planned appropriately The Plan Commission has launched a missile
to kill a mouse here. This is not a slight change maybe the zoning ordinance should be a
to allow more teaching of Girl Scouts in various locations. Somehow that became a rationale for allowing
commercial activities in residential areas. You are the last hope for stopping this destructive missile.
From its beginning, zoning has advanced health safety and general welfare by protecting residential
areas from business activities. And still today,
The importance of protecting property values is reflected in the UDO, which specifically refers to protecting
property values. People have invested their hard earned money relying on zoning to protect their property,
happiness, expectations. Please listen to the neighbors who are complaining. They are the people with
their happiness, their harmonious living, and their economic security at stake.
They are the ones who have relied on the city to protect them from uses that create negative externalities
in this case from Commercial uses I've seen it. I would not want to live there. It's a terrible place
for a commercial pod It's not a slight increase the century old line between commercial and residential
uses has been relatively easy for cities to enforce a
Adopting this amendment will make it much harder for this city to hold the line people who want Commercial
finding arts of farming. Sorry will find it much easier to bring plausible lawsuits when the BZA Denies
a commercial farm use if this new path is in the ordinance This commercial farming is not needed in
Bloomington commercial farming will do little good if it's adopted
This city and it will do much harm. It will reduce surrounding property values It will cause neighborhood
strife. It already has it will undermine faith in and reliance on the government Please reject this
proposal and build a better mousetrap for educating the Girl Scouts. Thank you
Thank you. Let's go ahead and go to a Zoom participant. If there's anybody else in chambers who'd like
to speak, you can make your way closer to the podium. While we're hearing from our Zoom person, when
you're unmuted, you can go ahead and state your name for the record, and then you'll have up to three
minutes. Hello. My name is Nancy Goswami, and I am here in support of urban residential farming.
And I just want to say that urban residential farming, backyard farming in various forms represents
a more sustainable, ecological alternative to these big conventional farms that contribute, negatively
contribute to and
Our climate change and tropical deforestation and the creation of dead zones in the oceans. While urban
residential farming supports biodiversity and environmental responsibility.
In recent decades, there's been a push to address hunger and food insecurity, which has led to the rise
of a variety of urban farming, residential type of farming practices. And they provide reliable, nutritious
food for everyone, closer to places where people live and work, and actually allows the reduction of
carbon footprint by
growing food closer to where people are eating. Also too, another thing that is very important is the
various for styles of urban farming with
supporting them, we can take back control of our food sources. In doing so, we can wrestle power away
from corporations and political forces that seek to manipulate access to food, as evidenced by the recent
defunding of our SNAP benefits. And this is a prime example of how food access can be used as a political
tool, holding all of us hostage, ultimately leaving people vulnerable to hunger and hardship.
Lastly, I think a variety of.
types of farming, including urban residential farming and backyard farming. Plot farming creates pathways
for future generations to gain practical skills in food production. Life skills that will be vital as
climate change brings new challenges. When people learn how to plant, maintain, and harvest their own
food, they gain a sense of agency and responsibility that will serve them and society in the future.
More control of our food sources is power and creating
a more resilient and sustainable future for all. And just want to briefly mention that I am one of the
neighbors of the people that this involves. And I admire what they're doing. And I think that it has
incentivized me to learn how to grow some of my own food. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else
in chambers who would like to make a comment?
Thank you we'll take another in chambers and then we'll go back to assume if you could make sure to
state your name for the record please sign in there and then you'll have up to three minutes. I'm Constance
Glenn. Can you hear me. So I like Nancy also a proponent of urban agriculture but not urban commercial
agriculture.
I'd like to add one person you haven't heard from is Kelly Walsh, who is another homeowner on Brooks,
the son of our dearly departed Mike Walsh. He's also in favor of gardening and opposed to commercialization
of it within a neighborhood. I want to clarify some misperceptions. We've been concerned about traffic
and safety from the very beginning. And I want to restate that Covenanter
At certain times of the day, very busy and Brooks is a narrow and dead end street that is not a full
two lanes. Purposely adding traffic seems foolhardy and dangerous. The hoops at 20 feet are one thing,
but 50% of the property is
a huge increase, it's 25% more than originally, and that was something Mr. Grulick didn't reference.
Doubles the size, so you could have a 100-foot hoop house. We've also been concerned about the assault
on the character of the neighborhood, and we've spoken with several realtors, and we've been told the
street is less likely to be desirable. I mean, it's all hypothetical. Its dynamic is likely to change
completely, and the infrastructure does not support
this proposal. We know that from Mr. Grulig that there are many inspectors. I sent him a question in
July in which I asked about safety measures for children or students on the property.
Beyond and he told me that there would be nothing from the city beyond what was put in place by the
Health Department I found this to be really Discouraging and frightening that we would put anything
into place that said that the city didn't care about the safety of children He told me that Ellie would
be enforcing this if it were the property that is right next door to us It's a pretty clear message
that children could be in danger on that property
We've also heard from members of the city that the city doesn't do enforcement very well It's our observation
that there were numerous property violations that were cited in 21 24 and not enforced until 25 It seems
the city does not do enforcement very well I'm sure some of us are concerned about instituting a neighbor
against neighbor policy, which we heard at the last council meeting I've
I work in music and peace and reconciliation. This is so much anathema to me. I'm very, very worried
about it. And like Jeff, I'm concerned that opening the door in this way for zoning change can result
in some very negative things. We appreciate your work on behalf of the city, its neighborhoods, and
its harmony. And we ask you to vote against it. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Let's go ahead and go back to Zoom. When you're unmuted, you can state your name for the record and
then you'll have up to three minutes. Hi, my name is Ellie Spear. This does not make sense. This is
not about an individual family. This is about the people who are actually not in the room looking at
you tonight. This is for
the students, the teachers, the parents who are all in bed right now, who don't have the time nor the
accessibility to drive, take a bus, take half the day to go learn. This is for our future generations,
not the current generations. We need to take the chance, innovation,
comes by taking chances. Creating solutions is by taking chances. Do not be scared. Take a chance on
removing barriers, seeing what happens. There's the checks and balances in there. We can figure this
out as a community. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Are there other public commenters in chambers? All right, I see somebody moving do we have any other
hands raised on zoom now Okay, so we'll take this one in chambers, please sign in state your name for
the record and then you'll have up to three minutes And then after this we'll go back to zoom My name
is James Glenn
I live on South Brooks and hopefully not going to read because all I have is bullet points. And the
first thing I want to talk about was process and I was wondering why an amendment showed up today in
the packet that we didn't have a chance to look at very often. And then I heard things about from the
other product the other amendments from the from the city.
from the naming district about a public meeting, and we would have loved to have a public meeting. Nothing
like that ever occurred for this particular thing. To reinforce lack of enforcement, not lack of enforcement,
but having neighbors have to talk to the city about other neighbors is not what we intended.
and not what we've done, actually. We've never complained. We've just asked for clarifications. The
current UDO allows for urban gardening. It allows for all of this stuff. You can have hoop houses. They're
just not 20 feet tall, but they are 15 feet tall. In terms of education, we're all for gardening and
urban education.
There are other ways to educate with greater impact and less carbon footprint. We mentioned last time
that there's an organization called the Indiana Farm to School Program that is operating right now in
Ellitsville, where they come to the schools. The students grow their own produce at the school, eat
it for lunch. You can reach more students this way. You can reach students that can't get to the other
side of town.
unless you put them all on a big school bus and disrupt their classroom for the day and bring them into
one place and then take them back. If they're out there at their school every day, they can watch their
produce grow. And it's much less carbon footprint for somebody to come and instruct them than for all
of them to come to a specific property. Much less disruptive. The one thing I wanted to mention about
right of way,
Mr. Grulick said was not changed. There was an amendment that changed the right-of-way on the street
side to five feet And I'm not sure what right-of-way means here. Is it the street or the property line
or the easement? That has not been explained to me And oh and well other thing that has not been addressed
that we asked about before that I haven't gotten a clear answer on is what about
Taxes with these properties be taxed as commercial properties. Will they lose their homestead credit?
Is water use billed at a different rate because they're Using it as a farm irrigation Think thank you.
That's my hit all my bullet points. It's amazing. Thanks so much. I appreciate what you're doing Let's
go ahead and move to zoom When you're unmuted you can state your name for the record and you'll have
up to three minutes
Is that me, Glenn Gass? I'm sorry, what? I'm Glenn Gass. I don't know if I'm next. Yep, you're unmuted.
Go ahead. Oh, I am. OK, I'll be brief. A lot of you are sick of me already, but this just seems like
a uniquely wrong
to make these kind of decisions on I don't know I don't know what to say you know Matt Austin last week
or at the last meeting said he had names from all over the city that were in support of this but and
said the only people that were not were
the neighbors on Covenanter and Brooks. Well, right. Not in my backyard, maybe kind of a negative thing,
but it's also true. Really, do you want this? Do you want to open this store? Do you want more meetings
like this? I can't imagine it. So anyway, we really want to support
the immediate neighbors who, you know, I've read a letter from the deputy mayor a couple of times already,
so I won't read it again, but saying that the immediate neighbors are the ones that really matter. So
I just really hope that's true and really appreciate your support. That's all. Thank you. Is there anybody
else in chambers? Make your way to the podium. Just step on up. Has anybody else raised a hand on Zoom? Okay.
So we'll go here and chamber. No, go ahead. When you get over here, go ahead and sign in again and then
state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes and then we'll go back to Zoom after
this comment. So I have given you a couple of rather long written presentations. Can you state your
name again? Oh, it's Sarah Jane Hughes.
And I am a neighbor and I live between the Goswami family on Hills not hillside more spike and the rest
of Brooks. I think it's really important to think about the issues that have come up tonight that are
somewhat different from those that you've heard before and I would like to address those rather than
the contents of my letter, which I assume is already in the record. First, Mr. Graylick has told us
that the city has never revoked
either a conditional use or a variance. So the idea that something will go away is not gonna happen
in a particular case. Once allowed and then gone through the conditional use purpose, it's gonna stick.
It will also stick with the property should that property ever be sold. So this is a long-term thing
as Ms. Spears mentioned. We have questioned repeatedly the available resources for enforcing
the zoning period in town. I'm very sad that I have to bring that up again but I still don't hear the
commitment to enforcing the rules and particularly a conditional use. There are a lot of adverse implications
from this project. They are situational.
And and I still think it's fair to call it a project as opposed to a real zone So I disagree with mr.
Grelick that this is not spot zoning dressed up as something else as our other neighbor Dan Conkle who
has not yet joined us this evening has once said at least to the Planning Commission if not to you the
quality of place is a subject that came up with the matter that I
President Sossberg was advocating and I agree with the people who were talking about quality of place
in Specific I will now direct your attention to the conditional use definition that's in the packet
and the conditional use definition speaks about this essentially being something that is Subsidiary
to the actual use which is a residential neighborhood. It's a stead It's a homestead
It's a farmstead. I don't care what kind of stead it is. It has a residential flavor with a very innovative
house built on it in the not distant past. It is extremely important to differentiate between what is
good zoning and policy and the remarkable altruism that Ellie Spear and her brother keep bringing up.
I love them for that.
But I don't think this is the right decision for the city. And I think if you look at the conditional
uses, which talk about situational appropriateness and the fundamental residential quality, you will
see that this that despite the work the president Stossberg and Councilman Asari have done on this recently,
we still have a long way to go. And I urge you to vote no, because this is not ready for prime time.
Thank you. We'll go back to Zoom, right? I have another Zoom comment. Wonderful. When you're unmuted,
you can go ahead and state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes. Hi, my
name is Jamie Scholl. I am a commissioner on the Bloomington Commission for Sustainability. I am also
someone who grows and sells plants locally and would like to
I first want to say thank you to all the council members who spent a number of minutes and sometimes
hours talking to me about this. I appreciate that. I appreciate the changes with the amendment as well.
I do feel heard, so thank you. There are some things still that I do think could be improved on this.
Some could be the home base vendor to just refer to what the state has rather than having it be more
strict. How we define agriculture is very interesting because what falls would typically fall underneath
agriculture would also be orchard, vineyards, not just annual crops, which would be row crops, but what
of forest gardens.
So that can include a native forest garden could be the entire property because those are trees and
plants that would already be here such as a black walnut elderberry black raspberries and then those
can be cultivated. I would also like to bring in the thought that when you're doing the sales this is
directly related to to me.
the resilience of our community in dealing with what's going on with SNAP right now. Many think our
food system is broken. It needs to be reformed. When we grow things and have in our neighborhoods, which
would not necessarily apply to HOA, so there's a small amount of land in the city that this would apply to,
We need to think about food sovereignty and our local food resilience in a whole system. I would have
liked to have seen a process and public meetings where we could have all discussed this because I think
we all do want to have a thriving community where everyone is well fed and can support small businesses
which can be agricultural in nature.
So I just wanted to say those things and thank everyone who has been involved in this. Thank you. Is
there anybody else in chambers who would like to make a public comment? Are there any other hands raised
on Zoom? Okay, let's go ahead and go to Zoom again. Please state your name for the record and then you'll
have up to three minutes. Hi, Paul Russo again. I strongly agree with everything that Jamie Scholl just
said. I would only add that changes can often be disturbing.
But we're in for a lot of changes that most people don't realize. The climate crisis is a lot worse
than most people realize, and that's going to strongly affect our food systems. And so it's better that
we make changes now and get ahead of the curve. I mean, for example, Dr. James Hansen, who's one of
the first people to alert the world about climate change, has been writing papers for the last 10 years
trying to get people to listen to the fact that the
Amount of global warming that's going to happen is actually twice what the international consensus is.
So you wrap your head around that we're in we're in for at least three degrees of warming already.
That's it. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any more comments in council chambers. I see another person
coming up. Go ahead and sign in state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes.
Matthew Austin.
Please vote yes on this. I agree with everything that mr. Russo said While this is a very restrictive
Piece of legislation, especially with the new amendments It's better to take a step forward than to
live in fear of what could be and live in anxiety because of the past So we need to move forward with
society and stop living in the past
Please vote yes, this is not about one property. This is about the entire community and the communities
that will follow our lead in enacting legislation Just like this so put your foot down and please vote.
Yes. Thank you Thank you, do we have any other zoom commenters Is there anybody else who wishes to make
a comment here in chambers I
Go ahead. We just need to be like really assertive here. Just stand up and do it Make sure that you
sign in. Yep, state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three minutes Hi, I'm Joshua
Stockton, I didn't think I would speak on this issue tonight as I wasn't aware of it, but I Do understand
I think this is NIMBY ism right to its core and
And I there have been previous comments tonight about how some things some people are worried about
increased traffic to their neighborhood. Increased people coming to their neighbors home. You are the
target customer your your neighbors are growing vegetables and fruits and whatnot and they are trying
to sell it to you. You can go to their door knock on their door instead of going to the grocery store.
That is how we build community here in Bloomington And that's how we save our future and I'm Frankly
tired of former generations Ruining my future. I'm 24 years old and this is what it's coming to like
we are going to experience climate disasters which consists of flooding and droughts and
We're sitting here complaining about your neighbors growing vegetables and selling it like in what reality
are we living in because it's not the same and I just I do understand why it's an issue. I mean property
values whatnot blah blah blah, but it's just So absurd that we have so many people coming here to complain
about a non-issue We have so many more issues in this city other than who's growing vegetables and selling them
out of their backyard and teaching their neighbors how to do it. So with that, thanks for listening.
Thank you. Has anybody raised a hand on Zoom? Anybody else in chamber? You really got to stand up and
be like direct if you're here in chambers and you would like to make a comment and I see somebody else
coming up. So go ahead and sign in, state your name for the record and then you'll have up to three
minutes. I am
Austin. Notice that last name. Austin. Thank you. Matt Austin. Ellie Spear is my daughter. I am a master
gardener. I was an educator for 34 years in the schools of Bloomington. I believe in teaching. I believe
in learning. Now, if someone goes to the Spear House or any other, we're not just talking about the
Spears. We're talking about many urban
neighborhoods and if someone goes to them and said how did you grow that fig tree. The Spears at their
property or maybe any of the other properties that want to avail themselves to this can't or they were
told cease and desist education outside and inside. They can't help their neighbors. They can't educate them.
So I want to say something. I've sent all of you something from the community garden post. Is that what
it is? Orchard. They say, shout out to Ellie Spear and Matt Arston and Garden Quest for all the important
work that they are doing at the community orchard and around the community.
And then I sent the all the council members a video. They got an item grant. You know what item is Indiana
Department of Education environmental management. And that was to teach how to take care of food waste.
The city of Bloomington helped this group.
also to do food waste at one of our festivals, what was that? The Taste of Bloomington. It wasn't, and
they saved thousands of pounds of food waste which did not go to the dump and did not incur extra carbon
into our environment and they were able to in a small way because they're a small group. But that all
has to do with education and they can educate teach people how to take care of their grounds. People
can see it in a residential neighborhood and then
The reason why most of this commercial happens is because they've got a nonprofit. But I shouldn't be
talking about just the Spear property. Thank you. Your time is up. Thank you so much. Thank you.
All right. Is there anybody else in chambers who would like to make a public comment? I don't see anybody
else moving. Anybody raised a hand on Zoom? OK.
Let's go ahead and revert to council members now Are there any I guess first of all, are there any questions
that any of the public comments have brought up for anybody? Councilmember Rallo Yeah, let's I feel
like probably we should it's appropriate to have another round of questions before we go to councilmember
comment So this is for Eric relic So how did you come to the determination? I know this is kind of
fine-grained, but of a 20-foot tall hoop house I Used to farm I had I had one that was 10 foot tall
adequate for me I
20-foot sounds like something you put a tractor through is that was that the consideration? Well, yeah,
so it wasn't exactly, you know a hoop house can be taller but when we were looking at the urban agriculture
non-commercial limitations and then the urban agriculture farmstead Limitations or you know rules to
put in place for that, you know If we're trying to allow for a little bit greater capacity And I think
we did hear from one member of this public a few weeks ago that talked about the challenges of smaller
greenhouse
And the heat effect that it creates within it makes it a lot harder to grow in there But in essence
we were looking at it more from the accessory structure height in these district is 20 feet So we were
just matching that allowance. It's already in the udio now for accessory structures within those residential
districts Do other accessory structures are they made of plastic?
No, they can't be right accessory structures have to be made of a material that's allowed in the district
or Comparable, so there are a lot higher standards in terms of what they can be made. Yeah, I guess
I guess the One contention is hoop houses are plastic. So you have a large plastic structure in the
backyard I know, you know, we we regulate accessory structures that that is a difference so
The 50% allowance property to be farmed is that excluding the house the driveway
No, so it would be just the size of the size of and so it's allowing so as you're as you're aware, you
know in Residential districts for accessory structures. You have a maximum footprint maximum size of
that. Yeah And so this was just giving a greater allowance because you know some of those sizes structure
It can be very limiting in terms of what's trying to be accomplished or what we're trying to enable
and promote And right now it's 25 percent. Is that right? After I said, what's the allowance right now 25? Oh
This isn't a this is an increase to 50. Is that well so the what I was looking at or what we were looking
at really is when you look at the non-commercial limitation and the amount Properly that can be taken
up by that. It was an increase from that About I think 15 percent. Let me look at that real quick Okay,
it's yes about 25. Yeah, so 25 percent Okay, so 25 percent to 50 and
so So say I'm using 25% I mean Miss Schultz talked about perennial shrubs and trees, so I've got say
a little orchard and Now can I plant a garden if it exceeds? Yes, and you know this this percentage
is not dealing with how much of your property you can grow crops on it's dealing with the structures
on that property
Yeah, so okay, right. So okay, so the shrubs are outside the structures obviously, so okay. So I guess
I'm trying to, what I'm trying to do is wrestle with this. You said earlier that this was the employee
number and the student number are restrictions, but they're in a sense allowances. I'm trying to decipher
this because right now,
out of unlimited employees come so right now you're restricting it to three well so so in terms of number
of employees there in residential districts there are no employees that are allowed at all
So even with a home occupation, you're allowed you're allowed to have an employee You can have I think
one employee but in a residential district There's there's no allowance for you to have employees at
your house. Certainly you can hire people You know as we talked about, you know last time to come do
landscaping or wash your windows or clean your house or whatever But you know, they're not there on
a daily basis. So it's kind of a so you're saying a business with a payroll and
You're limited to three employees. So so with this use, you know as you would you could be having these
people there all day long Every single day of the week. This is a different thing than somebody that
comes to your house for an hour cleans it leaves Yeah, okay. I'm just Okay, that's great. That's good
distinction and then the What so the 360 days a year? From 180 days
for growing So that would just be this cell so, you know, you're you're limited for the non-commercial
You're limited to 180 days that you can have your farm stand or whatever out there or selling from your
house So with this again, we were just trying to raise the allowances and so we're looking at year-round
allowance for that Yeah, so that was motivated by what request growing winter crops growing
well again just kind of looking at it from a perspective of you know here is a non-commercial
Use and the limitations to go along with that if we're trying to give greater allowances For an additional
use for the farmstead use, you know What are the things that could you know, maybe give a greater allowance
and enable that to have a little bit better impact? You know better for worse, but you know, these are
like said these are just standards that we proposed Yeah, you know, there's not a science to you know,
the 50% or the year-round sales but you know a series of things that we can do to make this use a little bit more
Allowing in terms of that occurring on the property Yeah, it's just so we've got timing. We've got students.
We've got structures. We've got employees There's a lot Happening here. Did you think about doing it?
Maybe incrementally like let's have Let's let's take the current use which I think has an adequate allowance
for income to be realized people are doing it and
And then adding one one use as opposed to a palette of things Or did you consider well, I'll leave it
at that Well, I mean, I guess I will say, you know We did we did dial it back from the first plane commission
hearing to the second plane commission hearing in terms of employees and number of customers so,
you know, we did bring that standard down and
In terms of that allowance between the two Plaint Commission hearings, but you know, I guess to get
to your question. No, we did not look at you know, we were just coming out of the gate with a series
of Allowances or restrictions proposals to include with this obviously the council has the ability to
do amendments to modify any of those if they so choose this is just
Kind of what we were bringing out as a starting point for discussion of standards that we felt were
small incremental increases for this use that was to be a small Advancement of that initial use motive
motivated by the Spears because this is where it originated Well, we looked at it from as I mentioned
the comprehensive paint comprehensive plan in a climate action plan that both encourage multiple instances
within there to look at a
enabling more of this use within the zoning code. Certainly as we did have a specific situation that
was in front of us of a user and we looked at that of, okay, what could be appropriate, we also looked
at that from a ratio perspective of any property in Bloomington. So that's why these things are based
on the lot size of you have a lot of one, you know, of that zoning district, you get one employee per
that lot and X number of customers.
Your lot size goes up that proportion of people is proportional and appropriate to the size of lot So
bigger lots more people is appropriate and is not as impactive because you're spread out over a larger
area Okay, thanks appreciate it other questions comes member Piedmont Smith Yes, one of the public commenters
I think it was mr. Glenn was asking about a change in the setback requirement of
And I had asked mr. Grulick earlier and he said there were no changes. So Maybe it was in the amendment
that councilmember Stossberg brought Yes, thank you. I'm glad for a chance to clarify this So that five
foot step setback from the right-of-way is specifically for agricultural stands not for other structures
So currently the way it is right now in the non-commercial agricultural stands in for non-commercial urban
Agriculture do not need to have any Setback at all. So if somebody and and once again, that's like permitted
right in all of these districts So if somebody wanted to grow things and then sell them from an agricultural
stand they could set up that agricultural stand like right next to the sidewalk like with no gap between
the sidewalk and their stand and The way that it was originally written in this proposal. It was written
the same way and
But because of the greater allowance of people potentially selling from agricultural stands 365 days
a year as opposed to only 180 days a year, I thought I at least want there to be some setback from that
right of way because there could be the potential of a more permanent agricultural stand set up somewhere.
So that is where the five foot comes from. It takes a zero setback and adds five feet to it.
It doesn't adjust setbacks for greenhouses or hoop houses or anything else. And similarly, it doesn't,
agricultural stands still need to be 10 foot from abutting lots. So it's a zero setback from that sidewalk
or that roadway, but it's a 10 foot setback from your neighbor. So I hope that that clarifies.
And just to kind of supplement that a little bit for just accessory structures in the UDO There's only
a five foot setback from side and rear property line. So both urban agricultural Standards have a greater
setback built into them for these structures from adjacent property lines Sorry, that's me again, are
there other questions from council members comes member daily At
Mr. Glenn brought up another good question that that got me wondering he brought up the the tax question
So since this is going to be a commercial use on the property, how do you know? I have no idea. The
Planning Department is not involved with that. That's the county assessor and orders office Okay, thanks
other questions comes number. Sorry. I
Thank you for your patience and long suffering here. And to all of you as well, thank you. Maybe bring
us back to a thread that we were pulling when we first started this conversation. And would you say
that it's accurate that the primary intent of this ordinance is to clarify that educational activities
related to urban agriculture may occur outdoors?
Yes, so I would say the two things that this is kind of accomplishing is a greater allowance for outdoor
activities for education And then the year-round sales, I would say those probably the two
biggest differences I mean obviously we've talked a little bit about you know additional structures
Capabilities in terms of height and amount of the property that can be devoted but really, you know,
this is this is dealing with use and
You know that's what planning and land use does is regulate uses on the property so this is giving allowing
a path for this use that has a little bit greater capacity to offer services on a property and and then
I think sort of then if we think about this in terms of necessity and proportionality like why why change
this here and not somewhere else right I mean we we could
put outdoor teaching and regulate it through existing provisions on noise on gatherings traffic parking.
Why regulate it here. Yep. So as I mentioned kind of at the beginning of the proposal you know the benefit
with defining it as a specific use is you can have very specific use specific limitations on it.
So all of the things that we've got here in these operational standards and the structure heights that
give greater Requirements or prohibitions or restrictions that can only be accomplished through these
you specific standards So, you know one of the things that's very important in planning and zoning is
to provide a somewhat predictable path and uniform fair treatment for folks So, you know what the limitations
are coming into it, you know, you can see the use specific limitations and
You know as opposed to you know, I'm going to the board I have no idea what conditions of approval might
be slapped on me You know this provides a clear predictable path, right? And then and then just I mean
to address the we've had a lot of comments on how this is actually about food security and about food
sovereignty and about food ecosystems what activities are are permitted under these changes that were not
previously permitted in other portions of code. And to be more specific, do you view this as affecting
food systems, food security, food sovereignty?
So your first question there, the biggest difference really is the outdoor education component.
You know, that's one of the main differences and the teaching. I mean, those are the two things,
you know, and so your second question, food sovereignty, yes, I mean, this is enabling more members
of the population to have a skill to provide for themselves. And through the teaching of like being
able to learn about how to plant and grow and harvest, right? Yeah.
Thank you. Are there other councilmember questions? Okay, go ahead and do your follow-up then councilmember.
Sorry Why then Why not just allow urban agriculture and farm stands as of as a sort of right?
That's a great question, and obviously that is something that the council, if they feel would be more
appropriate, because they're only changed, we were approaching this from a little bit more of a conservative
approach of allowing it as a conditional use so that there is still a process that somebody has to go
through to make sure that that use is still appropriate at a location. And the benefit with having the
use specific for standards is
You have specific things to evaluate on besides some of the very subjective general compliance criteria
that I talked about and the comprehensive plan. Going through and having these very objective standards
helps the board, helps members of the public, helps the staff know what the clear guidelines are that
they're being evaluated on and helps them meet that and then also provides a lot clearer ability for
us to enforce those.
So having having this as a conditional accessory use like I said really creates kind of the more most
conservative approach Certainly you could you could choose a different approach and allow this permitted
By right, but wouldn't you agree that that approach then hinges on our ability to enforce?
Enforce it. So if we are to accept that that's a that's the appropriate approach that we also are accepting
our ability to enforce that approach I don't think either approach Affects our ability to enforce anything
whether it's a conditional or permitted use you will have restrictions and we will we will always be
able to enforce those Thank you Any other questions comes member Rallo So accessory structures
Currently have a maximum footprint of what? It depends on the zoning district, you know So in the r4
400 square feet if it's the r3 580 if it's the r2 720 square or 840 square feet So it just depends on
your zoning district and what your maximum accessory structure is it is it is it the case? I can't exceed
10% of the dwelling site
No that that language that language is not okay So but it is it depends on the zoning district and yeah,
it's variable in size. So but So to understand this you're proposing that a hoop house structure have
a potential 50% Essentially
Footprint of the of the of the property Yes, that was our that was our proposal So so if you have a
quarter acre a lot which is about 11,000 square feet and you have a house and driveway and patio and
so forth Maybe we have you know a 1,500 square foot home. Maybe you have a couple you have an accessory
Structure you have driveway. Maybe it equals 3,000 square feet so you have
11,000 square feet you so we have 5,500 square feet potentially to put hoop houses on Yeah, so another
another thing to keep in mind with this, you know is also the maximum impervious surface coverage allowance
for property So, you know if you've got these structures and you've got some flooring to them, you know
They count against your impervious surface cover so there's lots of things that really still come into
play in regulating how much of these properties can't have these structures and
You know, this is just looking at that number that allowance as as a whole There's still other things
that are obviously going to come into play You know with the property as a whole that could limit what
you can do for a hoop house or greenhouse anyway You know, it just depends on you know, the exact structure
good. Could you tell me what that limit is? So in it depends again on the zoning district in the order
in the r2 zoning district for instance I think your maximum previous surface coverage is 40 and
Five percent. Give me just one second Forty percent is your maximum previous surface coverage in the
r2 in the r3. I think it goes to 45 Okay, so I guess 140 45 is your maximum in the r3 interesting So
you're probably never gonna get to the 50% You know if you've got a house on there, why did you put
50%? Well, because this was let's imagine you had a really small house. I
And you had a big property and a significant portion of your property was devoted to this use then you
could get there You know, there's so many puzzle pieces here that all have to fit together But it's
probably unlikely anyone's ever going to get to the 50 but it's possible Okay Thank you, thank you are
there other councilmember questions I
Okay I would like to go to council member comment then at this point if there are no more questions.
So if a council member would like to comment. Well I offered up moving the amendment earlier and the
sponsor of the amendment decided not to move it. So yeah I kind of gave him a look a couple of times.
Thank you fully fully capable of introducing. Yeah Moving on to councilmember comments. So if you are
interested in making a comment now's the time I Know that I have a comment does that mean that I have
the only comment that
Councilmember Flaherty go ahead break the ice. Yeah, I can give a brief comment This first like I think
that's what we're sorry was clarifying this to be very very clear Urban agriculture is and has been
allowed in Bloomington That's not what's This ordinance is about Farm produce sales are also allowed
the main substantive change here is related to outdoor educational activities and
Also want to be clear that the comprehensive plan and climate action plan speak to urban agriculture
in a handful of places. This ordinance, definitely not clear the, you could make an argument, but like
I would say this ordinance is not advancing what the comprehensive plan and climate action plan say
about urban agriculture, which is to allow it, which we do. So it's really kind of like been the wrong
focus to some degree of like what this is about.
And I think from where I sit, it's an odd approach. And I spoke to this some in our previous meeting.
I think the two things that I would recommend if we were interested in these changes, and by we, I mean,
if a council member wanted to lead this or if staff supported it and wanted to bring it, I'll just say
the genesis of all this also seems very strange, but would be a text edit to the number 180, describing
180 days that are allowed for farm produce sales.
We can change that number if we think that is unduly prohibitive. And then if we want to allow outdoor
education as part of a home occupation, then we should change that. We shouldn't create new districts
that are very bespoke and custom based on, again, a genesis here of a particular desire or interest,
though I understand the argument, of course, that this would apply broadly to the whole community. I
understand that. Nevertheless, it feels
unduly narrow if what we're trying to accomplish is supporting more home occupation uses. I guess that's
what I'd like to see and a broader categorical approach rather than something that seems so tailored
to a particular need that was driven by one instance. So for those reasons, I think
I'm not in support of the ordinance Although I'm very much in support of a ring of agriculture as I
always have been as our current code allows. Thank you Thank you, are there other councilmember comments
Councilmember all oh sure I'm also in favor of urban agriculture and I'm also in favor of
Harmonious expansion of urban agriculture. That is the one that One that is accepted and is embraced
by the community and I think that This has not been an optimal approach hmm, it just hasn't I won't
go into detail, but just to say that I think that there's been a lot of contention and that's unfortunate
because it
Kind of clouds the issue. Hmm. So I'm also intrigued by what my colleagues said in terms of so we're
going through an incremental approach here and I I'm I have a lot of Support and trepidation about various
aspects of it the 20-foot tall hoop house is quite an imposing structure I think for a residential
neighborhood. I think it's going to cause a
maybe blowback among the the neighbors and the residents and I think that you're likely to then suffer
a lot of acrimony and Opposition to urban agriculture. I think that's a mistake. I think it's I Mean,
you know there is a process element just like we were talking about with the stadium district that has to be
That we have to go through and it's no fault of mr. Gorlick. I think he's done an outstanding job at
trying to thread this needle and trying to make something work and I know that he's had a lot to do
in terms of enforcement and complaints and things related to this so I have nothing but respect for
mr. Gorlick and the planning department trying to work through this but I I think that this might be
the wrong tool and
I'm satisfied that we can as I said actualize a Income currently right now. Is it optimal? Probably
not But at this point, I'm uncomfortable with this and so I'll be voting no Pending further discussion
with my colleagues planning staff and and especially the residents and neighborhoods affected Thanks
Thank you. Are there other comments from council members?
Councilmember sorry More resilient sustainable locally rooted food system in Bloomington I Believe deeply
that growing and sharing food should be easier not harder But I think that as written I Think the intent
first seems I don't know
questionable, but also more importantly the design here. The legislation began as an effort to make
small local agriculture more accessible. I think that was sort of the initial place that we started.
But what we have here is, I mean, a codification of extremely narrow clarifications. I think
Educational activities may occur outdoors while layering on this like elaborate framework of conditions
definitions Operational limits that do little to advance our city's food security goals. I think from
a policy design perspective This is very much like a solution in search of a problem in many ways Like
if you just read this without knowing all of the background and context it regulates it specifies and
it reassures, but it doesn't truly enable and so I don't really like by there. It's not I'm not convinced
that this is about food security. It's a
about a very simple thing, which is whether or not people can teach outdoors. And I think we have to
be really clear about what is already allowed. You can already grow food on your property. You can already
sell food that you grow. You can already teach classes or hold educational activities, albeit indoors,
related to agriculture. We can already sell produce off-site at farmers markets, to restaurants,
through CSAs, et cetera, under Indiana's home-based vendor rules. And we can already do all of these
things within existing hours, noise, nuisance standards that apply to every other resident
use. So the claim that this ordinance unlocks local food or makes urban agriculture more possible is
just, I don't think, accurate. Those activities are already legal and happening today. What this ordinance
does is formalize one narrow point, that teaching can happen outdoors, and then again surrounds it.
I'm repeating myself, but it surrounds it with clarification that I think just makes our code a little
bit more complicated.
I'd be interested in looking at expanding, you know, actually expanding the type of food systems and
activities that we want to see. And if there's none of those, if the only thing that we want to see
is increasing the ability for people to teach, then I think that we should just simply do that in the
appropriate place of code. And so for those reasons, I will not be supporting this. Thank you. Are there
other council member comments?
Council Member Rosenberger. I'll do a quick one, thank you. I did want to say also first just that my
little frequent absences are because my dog had a procedure tonight. I just got him back and he is having
some bathroom needs and I'm just taking him out. So I'm sorry for that. Okay, that's what keeps happening.
I would just echo everything my colleagues have said so far and everything I said.
A couple weeks ago is the same though on October 22nd. But I think we can solve this by allowing outdoor
classes and home occupation and then if we want expanding to 365 days of selling. I like what Michelle
said about using the state regs for what products can be sold. I think that sounds really good too that
we could incorporate here.
One thing I hadn't focused on at all also is that right now we can't have friends over to show them
how to grow a fig tree or how I planted tomatoes. And so this is very much about paid classes, right?
So maybe when we look at this in the future or staff bring something different, like it is about that
commercial or like entrepreneurial aspect of
Agriculture or any kind of class. I think that we're talking about pay paid gas on our property as opposed
to right having a party outside of the heart, which is allowed right now. So just the whole idea of
changing our residential properties in the commercial properties, I think is like a higher level. But
in consideration as well and that commercial properties in the county are
differently, I think they're 3% and that is something that I understand we can't change but I think
it would also be a consideration that if we allow urban farms, do they get taxed at the same rate as
county farms because that could be a strange advantage or disadvantage depending who you are. Okay,
I'm not going to repeat anything else but for tonight I'll be voting no and thank you everyone for another
I think really good conversation about this legislation.
Thank you are there other councilmember comments councilmember Piedmont Smith This is a really tough
one for me and I have barely made up my mind But I think I'm inclined to To go for it to throw a bit
of caution to the wind and
and say, we are in a climate crisis. We do need to grow more of our own food. We need to learn how to
do it. If my neighbors are teaching it, I want to learn from them. I want to be buddies with somebody
who's growing veggies, because in the future, we're going to be relying on each other. Even now, with
SNAP benefits, we're relying more on each other.
I do think it's very unfortunate that there has been this acrimony in the neighborhood. And I don't
want to take sides in that because I can see both sides. I think that we all have to work hard to be
good neighbors and listen to each other and not pretend that we know better than anybody else.
But I think it all does come down to we are in a climate crisis. This whole process has taken a year.
Sure, we can revisit this and do new rules. That's gonna take at least another year if anybody has the
bandwidth to do it. I'd like to vote yes because I think it's a good change. It's a good direction to
go. I think there are a lot of safeguards.
And yeah, I'm in favor of it. Thank you. Are there other council member comments? All right, I'm going
to go ahead and go. I'm going to hope that I make it in the five minutes. And I'm also going to say
that I wrote several things down, and some of it may or may not be in the best order. So I wanted to
respond to some things that I've heard
In terms of public feedback and public comment both stuff that's been sent in and also said tonight
in terms of timing of the process and public meetings and to Kind of remind everybody that this started
as a use table change And so according to state law we had to send postcards out to every single homeowner
in this city because these changes affected every single zoning district as it was first presented and
I wanted to highlight this, okay, because then there were multiple hearings at the planning commission level.
Including a whole lot of public comment And the public comment that we heard tonight is basically really
like the same as the public comment that we heard at the planning commission level It's the same group
group of people who've been who've been speaking So in terms of you know that whole like oh, this is
spot-zoning or oh this only affects one neighborhood Well, there's a certain category of folks that
have maybe identified with this particular change more There were a different category of folks that
we heard about the SROs that we had a first reading for tonight And then we're gonna have a second reading
for in a couple weeks. So, you know, there's been plenty
plenty of I think outreach in terms of That and the folks that who have engaged are the ones that who
chose to engage And I also want to say that you know a lot of that public comment all those letters
have originated around a very specific property once again because that change resonated with people
around this particular property more than it resonated with a
People in other areas and I want to be really clear that matter what happens tonight that specific property
like if this was approved that specific property would still have to go through a Whole nother conditional
use process and a lot of the points that were brought up related to that property would still be applicable
in that kind of environment so like
Whether you know if it passes tonight, that's no guarantee for that one property or any other property
in the city and I really want to make that clear like the Board of Zoning Appeals is You know not a
small thing to have to go through And now getting to this actual like legislation I also want to say
like I thoroughly support the concept of urban farming gardening like all of the things right and
Had an amendment on this legislation. So this legislation is currently like it lives in my amended form
and I support that amended form in terms of comparing it to its like original right, but I still don't
love it So I I've been you know working with this process with the planning department for a year and
a half really maybe even a little bit longer and
It has been very exhaustive in a lot of ways, and generally those differences between the non-commercial
and the farmstead are really minimal, and as other people have said, kind of so minimal that almost
maybe not even meaningful except for the education piece. And so that's kind of, and the allowance for
outdoor occupations and how to do that, I mean,
There were a number of times that I said to planning, which way should we do this? What makes the most
sense? And it was their decision to do it this way. But I still don't feel like I have a satisfactory
answer or an answer that really resonates with me for why this was the decision that they made to go.
So it's my respect for them as professionals that kind of make me, OK, that's the decision that they
decided to go with. But I still think that there are some issues. There are issues.
related to it having to go through the BZA, which yes, it's an onerous process to some degree. But then
Council Member Asari was pulling this thread that I pulled several months ago.
What kind of guidance can we give the BZA? What if somebody is not staying in accordance with this?
What kind of enforcement can we do in terms of removing this allowance? How does that play out? And
I don't love the way that that plays out. And I think part of that is I don't love conditional uses.
kind of like, okay, it should either be written in and allowed in the way that it should be allowed,
or it shouldn't be allowed. And I just don't love going through the BZA for nearly anything, including
this. And so as this is written right now, I have concerns about it. I have concerns about the whole
concept of students, which if you have one class with eight kids,
That's not that big of a deal. If you have one class with eight kids on the hour every hour for eight
hours a day, for five days a week, that becomes a big deal. So I'm out of time, but thank you. Are there
other council member comments before we vote? Great, then will the clerk please call the roll on ordinance
2025-32 as amended? Yes. Stasberg? No. Daly?
No Rosenberger no sorry no Flaherty no rough oh and Rallo no Thank you so that fails with a vote of
one to seven
Moving on today to the additional public comment. So this is the Another period of generalized public
comment if you have an item That was not on the agenda that you would like to speak to and if you did
not speak at the first period of general public comment Now is the time for you to speak up on other
items not on the agenda so if there's anybody in chambers who would like to speak or
Make your way to the podium. If there's anybody online, go ahead and raise your hand using the reactions
tab. I'm kind of looking at staff. I'm looking around. I see a lot of people moving, but nobody's really
moving to the podium. OK. I don't think. Oh, we do. We have one person with their hand raised on Zoom.
So when you're unmuted, you can go ahead and state your name for the record. And then you'll have up
to three minutes.
Thank you for everything tonight for everyone. My name is Jamie show. I just want to thank those who
have put together. This convergence of folks to address the food insecurity issues around snap for this
coming Sunday. That was something I've been very concerned with both individually as
And as a commissioner on because so I will be attending that and I look forward to joining you. Oh I
did want to make a point. I did talk to someone the associate director of the Hoosier Hills Food Bank
a few days ago and want to just put out in the public that we have just under eight thousand people
who will be affected in Monroe County. So thanks for all who's who's involved in this. Thank you.
It looks like we have another commenter in chambers. Go ahead and sign in, and then state your name
for the record. You'll have up to three minutes. Thank you. I'm Jeff Stake, still. And I was nervous
when I was up here before. And so I just didn't know if I'd said thank you at the end of what I said
before. I just want to say thank you again.
I think that I think that that's a general. Thanks. Thanks so much All right. All right. Is there anybody
else who would like to make a general public comment about items not on the agenda? Any other hands
went up on zoom
OK, great. So the note of council schedule, I want to say, next week is our council deliberation session.
I already talked about that during my opening comments. So please come to that. Come kind of ready to
share and discuss. And there'll be more information in the packet about that. And there's also more
information in the press release. Our next regular session is the following Wednesday. So that would
be November 19.
When our agenda will actually have to follow the new agenda that we just approved earlier tonight To
note that difference under reports. Are there any other notes on council schedule councilmember Piedmont
Smith? The committee on council processes will meet on Monday, November 10th at 12 15 in the elephant
conference room Great. Thank you. Any other notes on council schedule? I Don't think so
19th of November is a fiscal committee meeting. If there are no other notes on schedule, thank you so
much. We are adjourned.