WEBVTT 00:00:00.258 --> 00:00:09.489 - I'm gonna call to order our March 4th meeting of the Common Council for 2026. Will the clerk please 00:00:09.489 --> 00:00:18.813 - call the roll? Councilman Flaherty here Stasburg here Piedmont Smith Zulek present. Sorry here Daley 00:00:18.813 --> 00:00:22.782 - here Rallo here Ruff here Rosenberger here 00:00:24.194 --> 00:00:31.308 - Okay, the agenda is posted online and on the doors, but this evening's agenda includes approval of minutes 00:00:31.308 --> 00:00:37.956 - from five meetings held in 2025. Under reports, we'll hear from council members first and also from 00:00:37.956 --> 00:00:44.737 - city offices where we'll have a report, long-awaited report from our new city controller, Jeff McKim, 00:00:44.737 --> 00:00:50.654 - and also a report from our planning director, David Hittle, regarding House Enrolled Act 00:00:50.786 --> 00:00:59.322 - 1001 under legislation. We have one ordinance for first reading concerning a proposed rezoning a PUD 00:00:59.322 --> 00:01:07.943 - and then we also have a First reading of a resolution which proposes transparency requirements around 00:01:07.943 --> 00:01:14.366 - flock cameras one important note if you've been to a council meeting before 00:01:14.434 --> 00:01:23.934 - At our last meeting, our last regular session we made new legislation that allows us to discuss 00:01:24.002 --> 00:01:30.576 - legislation during first reading, and so the PUD is a first reading tonight. In the past, we wouldn't 00:01:30.576 --> 00:01:37.086 - have discussed something during first reading. We intend to discuss that. We may discuss that should 00:01:37.086 --> 00:01:43.790 - the council decide to, and we've come up with some basic rules. This is the first time that we're doing 00:01:43.790 --> 00:01:46.110 - first reading discussions, so we're 00:01:46.210 --> 00:01:52.495 - kind of trying to feel this out. We're going to run it the way that we essentially that we usually run 00:01:52.495 --> 00:01:54.814 - second readings and that council will 00:01:54.882 --> 00:02:03.276 - receive a presentation from the city staff. We'll ask some questions. After that, there will be a period 00:02:03.276 --> 00:02:11.350 - of public comment on the PUD. We've limited that time of public comment to 30 minutes. Now, that can 00:02:11.350 --> 00:02:19.504 - be extended, so the council may choose to extend that, but it might just stop at 30 minutes. And then 00:02:19.504 --> 00:02:22.622 - thereafter, there will be some sort of 00:02:22.754 --> 00:02:29.539 - time for closing comments. The council can at that time either choose to make some type of a vote on 00:02:29.539 --> 00:02:36.257 - the thing or to delay it for another time. All of those things are possibilities and is to the full 00:02:36.257 --> 00:02:43.042 - body to decide. Councilmember Piedmont-Smith, is there anything I missed out on the rules that we've 00:02:43.042 --> 00:02:44.990 - proposed for first readings? 00:02:46.850 --> 00:02:55.431 - Thank you very much then. Okay. So so with that we have minutes for approval We have those four Four 00:02:55.431 --> 00:03:03.926 - five set of minutes. Are there any amendments to the minutes? Please councilmember Stossberg I just 00:03:03.926 --> 00:03:11.742 - remembered that I messaged the clerk a couple of notes about those but I don't think that I 00:03:13.282 --> 00:03:21.316 - Updated minutes wherever sent out. Did anybody see any updated minutes? I don't think so Okay, what 00:03:21.316 --> 00:03:29.511 - would the clerk prefer me to do right now about those? the the two things were in the Meeting date of 00:03:29.511 --> 00:03:37.545 - December 3rd there. I thought maybe it would be useful to have an explanation of why a motion ended 00:03:37.545 --> 00:03:38.750 - up failing and 00:03:38.882 --> 00:03:45.223 - with five yeses and two nos. I think it was after 1030, so we needed a two-thirds majority. And then 00:03:45.223 --> 00:03:51.502 - I think there's a typo in the minutes from December 10th. Clerk Williamson, do you? Yeah, so we did 00:03:51.502 --> 00:03:58.094 - fix the typo, and Chief Deputy Clerk McDowell did add in that note. I am actually talking with her right 00:03:58.094 --> 00:04:04.498 - now about the minutes. I don't believe she sent them out as revised. She says they can be pulled from 00:04:04.498 --> 00:04:07.198 - the agenda if you would prefer to do that. 00:04:08.322 --> 00:04:15.654 - Okay, I mean if she fixed them and they were you know It was clarity so so I'm fine if they're fixed 00:04:15.654 --> 00:04:22.985 - and those were the only two things fixed but if we would prefer to Move those two sets of minutes to 00:04:22.985 --> 00:04:30.462 - next month like whatever That's the third and the third and the tenth, okay, we can resubmit them also 00:04:30.462 --> 00:04:33.438 - putting that as an option as well that I 00:04:33.666 --> 00:04:40.846 - So we can either vote vote to get them adopted as as amended or we can just move them off makes no real 00:04:40.846 --> 00:04:48.025 - difference Okay, okay in which case any other any other corrections to the minutes Please councilmember 00:04:48.025 --> 00:04:55.067 - Piedmont Smith, I don't have a correction, but so should we amend the motion and say We have we don't 00:04:55.067 --> 00:05:01.694 - have a motion yet. Oh, we don't It makes it a lot easier any other corrections to the minutes I 00:05:02.338 --> 00:05:09.353 - Okay, seeing none, are there any motions? Yeah, thanks. I move to, I'm sorry, point of clarification. 00:05:09.353 --> 00:05:16.299 - Did we decide to pull those December ones or are we going to re-submit? She said she doesn't matter. 00:05:16.299 --> 00:05:23.383 - We're approving all of them. I move to approve the minutes from July 30th, November 5th, December 3rd, 00:05:23.383 --> 00:05:30.467 - December 10th, and December 15th as amended. Second. There's a motion and a second. All those in favor 00:05:30.467 --> 00:05:31.774 - say aye. Aye. Aye. 00:05:32.226 --> 00:05:38.796 - Abstaining that motion carries nine zero will now move to a time of reports This is Limited each section 00:05:38.796 --> 00:05:45.304 - of this is limited to 20 minutes and we'll start with councilmember reports as as I've been doing we'll 00:05:45.304 --> 00:05:51.749 - do it in two things So if you could first do a report and then if you have a general statement, you're 00:05:51.749 --> 00:05:57.694 - welcome to give it We'll start off with reports as anybody have a report Councilman Pema Smith 00:05:58.818 --> 00:06:05.466 - Yes, I am the new council liaison to the Redevelopment Commission. So I just want to report that at 00:06:05.466 --> 00:06:12.447 - Monday's meeting They did pass a resolution designated designating at the summit district as an economic 00:06:12.447 --> 00:06:19.228 - development area, which is the first step towards Creating a residential TIF for that area to provide 00:06:19.228 --> 00:06:25.278 - funding for infrastructure Thank you very much. Any other reports? Councilmember Stossberg 00:06:25.826 --> 00:06:31.006 - Yeah, I guess I'll give a short report on the MPO, Metropolitan Planning Organization. 00:06:31.074 --> 00:06:36.898 - There's kind of some interesting conversations happening there right now about the founding documents 00:06:36.898 --> 00:06:42.094 - and whether the organizational structure that was decided on in the early 80s is still the 00:06:42.094 --> 00:06:47.975 - best organizational structure to move forward with. So that will be an interesting conversation moving 00:06:47.975 --> 00:06:53.799 - forward. And I somehow became vice chair of that organization, for lack of anybody else volunteering, 00:06:53.799 --> 00:06:59.966 - because that's apparently how my life goes. So thank you very much. Thank you very much. Any other reports? 00:07:00.802 --> 00:07:07.928 - All right, we'll move on if anyone has a statement or something you'd like to read anybody with a statement 00:07:07.928 --> 00:07:14.527 - Okay counselor Stossberg I'll go for that too. I just I think I have two things maybe that count in 00:07:14.527 --> 00:07:21.191 - the statements. I'm not really sure So first I want to send a sincere. Thank you to counsel attorney 00:07:21.191 --> 00:07:27.262 - later and deputy attorney Bennett This is their their last official council meeting with us 00:07:29.730 --> 00:07:34.884 - And I just want to thank the two of you for your work and contributions to counsel while you guys were 00:07:34.884 --> 00:07:39.938 - here I've really enjoyed working with you and I've really valued Your guidance and your legal advice 00:07:39.938 --> 00:07:44.942 - that you've given me. So thank you very much for your service and Then the second thing I wanted to 00:07:44.942 --> 00:07:49.995 - notes was constituent meetings. Is this the time for constituent meetings or is reports the time for 00:07:49.995 --> 00:07:50.846 - consistent work? 00:07:50.978 --> 00:07:56.197 - Okay, so I've been doing that new thing with constituent meetings where basically I'm having like kind 00:07:56.197 --> 00:08:01.214 - of open office hours by appointment so that is coming up next week on Tuesday between the hours of 00:08:01.602 --> 00:08:06.981 - Excuse me 1130 and one and if you want to make an appointment with me during that time The link to do 00:08:06.981 --> 00:08:12.308 - that is on my public calendar. This worked really well last month It was actually really interesting 00:08:12.308 --> 00:08:17.898 - having a kind of individual conversations and I feel like those Can be more meaningful to have one-on-one 00:08:17.898 --> 00:08:23.330 - conversations with folks about things that they want to talk about So if you want to sign up for that, 00:08:23.330 --> 00:08:28.604 - let me know right now Those are generally second Tuesdays like next week Tuesday the 10th. So thank 00:08:28.604 --> 00:08:29.342 - you very much 00:08:29.986 --> 00:08:35.454 - Awesome. Thank you so much. Any other statements councilmember daily? Yeah. Thank you. I just wanted to 00:08:35.522 --> 00:08:41.279 - say a big thank you and congratulations to the city of Bloomington and especially the community Family 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:46.869 - Resource Department for their wonderful black history month gala that they threw Saturday night. It 00:08:46.869 --> 00:08:52.626 - was a beautiful event It was so much fun It's one of my favorite events all year where we get to dress 00:08:52.626 --> 00:08:58.327 - up and be all Fancy and have fun with each other and dance any good food but also to celebrate all of 00:08:58.327 --> 00:09:03.358 - the award recipients which was just really heartwarming and just so beautiful to see so I 00:09:03.810 --> 00:09:11.210 - Big congratulations for yet another wonderful event. Can't wait to see you at next year's and I encourage 00:09:11.210 --> 00:09:18.401 - everybody here to join next year. Thank you. Thank you very much. Any other statements. Council member 00:09:18.401 --> 00:09:25.732 - Smith. My March constituent meeting as usual on the second Saturday. So that'll be March 14th at 11 a.m. 00:09:25.732 --> 00:09:32.574 - It's via zoom. You can go to the city council website to sign up for that. Thank you. Any others. 00:09:33.954 --> 00:09:40.468 - All right. I have a very brief one. I don't tend to give statements during meetings, but I will give 00:09:40.468 --> 00:09:47.112 - one tonight. And I just want to take a moment to say something about, I guess, the nature of this body 00:09:47.112 --> 00:09:49.950 - and the responsibility that we share in the 00:09:50.018 --> 00:09:55.777 - of public life, I think especially when issues like some of the things that we're going to talk about 00:09:55.777 --> 00:10:01.479 - today are important and deeply felt, and I think we will disagree. And if you watch this council, we 00:10:01.479 --> 00:10:07.125 - disagree often. It's not only inevitable, but I think that it is healthy, and I hope that you would 00:10:07.125 --> 00:10:12.884 - all agree with me that it is healthy for the people that you've elected to disagree. This council was 00:10:12.884 --> 00:10:18.756 - designed that way. There are nine of us here because a city as vibrant and as thoughtful as Bloomington 00:10:18.756 --> 00:10:19.998 - deserves many voices, 00:10:20.034 --> 00:10:27.107 - many perspectives and many approaches to the challenges that we face together. But even when we disagree, 00:10:27.107 --> 00:10:33.780 - and to be clear, we disagree a lot, I think two things have always been true. And sometimes I think 00:10:33.780 --> 00:10:40.520 - we maybe remember this, but we don't always, I don't know, say it enough. But two things have always 00:10:40.520 --> 00:10:47.326 - been true in my experience serving alongside my colleagues who I respect is that, first, I have never 00:10:47.682 --> 00:10:54.231 - a day that I've served on this council doubted that the other members of this council that you elected 00:10:54.231 --> 00:11:00.844 - deeply care about Bloomington and that they want the best for this community and that even when we have 00:11:00.844 --> 00:11:07.647 - differences of opinions that we might differ on how we want to achieve that goal we might vote differently 00:11:07.647 --> 00:11:14.069 - we may advocate advocate passionately for different solutions I've never questioned the sincerity or 00:11:14.069 --> 00:11:17.630 - commitment that each of us brings to this work secondly 00:11:19.682 --> 00:11:25.920 - We all need each other. So we can't operate alone. We're not nine individuals operating in isolation, 00:11:25.920 --> 00:11:32.097 - but we're one body. And the work of this council only succeeds when we listen, deliberate, persuade, 00:11:32.097 --> 00:11:38.213 - and sometimes compromise. Democracy, especially at the local level, which is, I think, right now so 00:11:38.213 --> 00:11:39.742 - under attack across this 00:11:39.938 --> 00:11:45.867 - country is not the triumph of one voice over another, but it's the difficult and ongoing practice of 00:11:45.867 --> 00:11:50.974 - governing together. And so that does not mean that everything's going to be unanimous. 00:11:51.234 --> 00:11:56.577 - Lot of things will not be and I don't think that they should be I think healthy institutions make room 00:11:56.577 --> 00:12:01.817 - for disagreement They make room for debate and this is why nine people were elected to serve you But 00:12:01.817 --> 00:12:07.004 - disagreement amongst us should never be mistaken for indifference to the city that we all serve and 00:12:07.004 --> 00:12:12.243 - it should never be framed as a failure of good faith and so I want to say just to the public as well 00:12:12.243 --> 00:12:14.526 - as other elected officials in the room that 00:12:14.594 --> 00:12:19.805 - This chamber belongs to all of you that it's natural for us to feel strongly about the issues that come 00:12:19.805 --> 00:12:24.867 - before this council that Passion for our community is a good thing. But as we engage these difficult 00:12:24.867 --> 00:12:29.978 - questions together I really just hope that we can do so in the spirit that reflects what's best about 00:12:29.978 --> 00:12:35.290 - Bloomington that we speak with conviction But also with grace that we argue our positions not to question 00:12:35.290 --> 00:12:40.451 - each other's love for the city not to question each other's resolve But that we remember that our goal 00:12:40.451 --> 00:12:44.560 - is simply not to win arguments, but to build a future deserving of this community 00:12:44.560 --> 00:12:53.349 - And so we deserve nothing less than our ambition and also nothing less than our grace So that is my 00:12:53.349 --> 00:13:02.226 - statement for this evening that being said let us move on then for to Come comments and reports from 00:13:02.226 --> 00:13:11.806 - the city offices. We have a report from first from Jeff McKim our Wonderful controller. Thank you. Mr. McKim 00:13:17.314 --> 00:13:25.963 - Really Okay, I think now it works good evening council members Jeff McKim City Controller I appreciate 00:13:25.963 --> 00:13:34.612 - the opportunity to provide an update on the city's 2024 annual comprehensive financial report or a CFR 00:13:34.612 --> 00:13:40.574 - and the accompanying audits Let me begin with the most important point 00:13:40.994 --> 00:13:46.750 - The audits are active and progressing. The auditors are not currently waiting on any deliverables from 00:13:46.750 --> 00:13:52.506 - the city. We are responding to requests from the auditors in real time and additional testing requests 00:13:52.506 --> 00:13:58.151 - may continue as the audit moves forward normally if belatedly. Just to give you a sense of the kinds 00:13:58.151 --> 00:14:02.398 - of requests we're receiving, the most recent request that came in yesterday 00:14:02.626 --> 00:14:07.973 - was for photographic documentation of the security surrounding a fire suppression system that had been 00:14:07.973 --> 00:14:13.476 - purchased and installed with community development block grants for Centerstone. Hand staff had to obtain 00:14:13.476 --> 00:14:18.668 - access to the Centerstone building and go over and take pictures of the locked doors that protected 00:14:18.668 --> 00:14:24.119 - the fire system. I really appreciated their willingness to jump into action when we received the request 00:14:24.119 --> 00:14:26.974 - so we could get it to the auditors in a timely manner. 00:14:27.810 --> 00:14:34.297 - But in any case, to understand where we are on the schedule, it helps to revisit briefly how we got 00:14:34.297 --> 00:14:41.044 - here. Prior to 2018, Bloomington was subjected only to a regulatory or cash basis audit. That framework 00:14:41.044 --> 00:14:47.725 - focused primarily on cash inflows and outflows at the fund level, what we received, what we spent, and 00:14:47.725 --> 00:14:51.358 - whether expenditures complied with statutory authority. 00:14:51.650 --> 00:14:57.793 - The audited report at that time was only 35 pages, and that audit matches the way that Indiana units 00:14:57.793 --> 00:15:04.058 - of government and almost all units of government everywhere are managed. In 2017, the General Assembly 00:15:04.058 --> 00:15:10.323 - amended state law to require larger local governments that issue bonds to prepare financial statements 00:15:10.323 --> 00:15:16.406 - under Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, or GAP. Bloomington falls within that category, and 00:15:16.406 --> 00:15:20.542 - once a unit begins GAP reporting, it must continue in future years. 00:15:21.154 --> 00:15:27.459 - Gap reporting is substantially more comprehensive. It requires government-wide financial statements 00:15:27.459 --> 00:15:33.763 - that incorporate long-term assets and liabilities, including capital assets, bonded debt, pensions, 00:15:33.763 --> 00:15:40.320 - leases, and other post-employment benefits. Revenues and expenses are recorded when earned or incurred, 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.590 - not simply when cash changes hands. 00:15:42.882 --> 00:15:49.115 - The result is a much more complete picture of fiscal sustainability, but also a significantly more complex 00:15:49.115 --> 00:15:55.173 - reporting process that differs from the day-to-day systems that local governments use to manage budgets 00:15:55.173 --> 00:16:01.114 - and finances. Just to compare, our financial statement that's being audited right now is 197 pages as 00:16:01.114 --> 00:16:04.318 - opposed to the 35 pages of the regulatory basis audit. 00:16:05.026 --> 00:16:10.909 - Implementing gap reporting required structural and operational adjustments. Capital asset reporting 00:16:10.909 --> 00:16:17.380 - has been the most significant lift as it requires coordination across multiple departments and reconciliation 00:16:17.380 --> 00:16:23.499 - of historical project balances. In addition, new accounting standards for leases and subscription-based 00:16:23.499 --> 00:16:26.558 - IT arrangements added further reporting complexity. 00:16:27.714 --> 00:16:34.060 - The period from 2020 through 2022 also coincided with pandemic related disruptions and two successive 00:16:34.060 --> 00:16:40.530 - auditor transitions, which didn't always go smoothly. Each transition required rebuilding institutional 00:16:40.530 --> 00:16:47.187 - knowledge, which extended issuance timelines. It is also fair to say that not all delays can be attributed 00:16:47.187 --> 00:16:53.408 - to external factors. Even the recent transition in the controller's office created additional delay 00:16:53.408 --> 00:16:54.590 - in the 2024 cycle. 00:16:55.074 --> 00:17:02.261 - My top priority since taking this position in January has been to regain momentum and ensure that this 00:17:02.261 --> 00:17:09.378 - audit is wrapped up as quickly and accurately as possible. This administration took office in 2024 to 00:17:09.378 --> 00:17:16.494 - find that the 2021 audit had only been completed a few weeks before, in December of 2023. Since then, 00:17:16.494 --> 00:17:24.030 - we've made measurable progress. The 2022 audit issued October 2024, and the 2023 audit issued July of 2025. 00:17:24.450 --> 00:17:30.625 - Steady movement towards restoring a sustainable annual cadence. As to where we stand today, three parties 00:17:30.625 --> 00:17:36.508 - are involved in this process. The city, our compiling CPA firm that converts our financial data into 00:17:36.508 --> 00:17:42.566 - GAP format, and the audit firm engaged by the State Board of Accounts. There's continuous communication 00:17:42.566 --> 00:17:48.566 - among all three, as well as with our liaison at the State Board of Accounts. One key lesson from prior 00:17:48.566 --> 00:17:53.342 - cycles is that responsiveness and early preparation directly affect the timeline. 00:17:54.018 --> 00:17:59.682 - Where the city has been slower to provide information, the overall schedule is extended. This is an 00:17:59.682 --> 00:18:05.630 - area within our control and we are managing it accordingly. Providing timely responses to audit requests 00:18:05.630 --> 00:18:11.804 - is my top priority and that of my team in the office of the controller. At the same time, we're implementing 00:18:11.804 --> 00:18:17.525 - process improvements, particularly around capital asset tracking and earlier end year preparation so 00:18:17.525 --> 00:18:21.886 - that the 2025 cycle begins from a position of strength rather than catch up. 00:18:22.658 --> 00:18:28.782 - While prior cycles have experienced delay for a variety of reasons, the responsibility for restoring 00:18:28.782 --> 00:18:35.027 - a sustainable reporting cadence now rests with this office. Our objective is straightforward. Complete 00:18:35.027 --> 00:18:41.514 - the 2024 audit as soon as practicable and restore the city to issuance of the 2025 report by the September 00:18:41.514 --> 00:18:48.001 - 2026 deadline. Timely and accurate financial reporting is fundamental to market credibility, bond pricing, 00:18:48.001 --> 00:18:51.518 - and public trust. We're focused on meeting that standard. 00:18:51.842 --> 00:18:59.288 - Appreciate the opportunity to provide this update and I'm happy to try to answer any questions Thank 00:18:59.288 --> 00:19:06.660 - You controller McKim questions We have none thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you All 00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:14.326 - right, we'll now hear a report from director David Hittle of the planning and transportation department 00:19:14.326 --> 00:19:17.054 - director Hittle take it away, sir. I 00:19:24.642 --> 00:19:30.131 - Good evening, David Hittle director of the Department of Planning and Transportation here to talk a 00:19:30.131 --> 00:19:35.621 - bit about Really two things one follows the other. The first is house bill 1001 which has completed 00:19:35.621 --> 00:19:41.110 - its trip through the state legislature and I think has a an impact on how we do zoning and planning 00:19:41.110 --> 00:19:46.874 - here in Bloomington and then I'll follow that up with a discussion of how we move forward with something 00:19:46.874 --> 00:19:52.527 - we've been talking about for a while, which is UDO amendments having to do with housing attainability. 00:19:52.527 --> 00:19:53.790 - So first about HB 1001 00:19:55.138 --> 00:20:02.142 - So this was really the state's first major foray into the world of state-level Preemptive land use and 00:20:02.142 --> 00:20:09.078 - development regulation other states coastal states and blue states in particular have been doing this 00:20:09.078 --> 00:20:15.946 - for a while and and mostly in the realm of housing of taking away obstacles to housing and making it 00:20:15.946 --> 00:20:18.462 - easier a few municipalities to build 00:20:18.626 --> 00:20:25.313 - greater diversity of housing So Indiana's attempt if it had been approved in its initial form It would 00:20:25.313 --> 00:20:32.000 - have allowed for Duplexes by right in all residential districts It would have allowed for at least one 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:38.817 - accessory dwelling unit on lots in all residential districts and it would have stripped away the current 00:20:38.817 --> 00:20:40.894 - owner occupancy requirement and 00:20:41.026 --> 00:20:46.835 - It would have prohibited all off-street parking regulations, both minimums and maximums. It would have 00:20:46.835 --> 00:20:52.588 - eliminated or reduced most residential setback requirements and lot dimension minimums. It would have 00:20:52.588 --> 00:20:58.341 - allowed by right for development of affordable housing on property used for religious purposes, which 00:20:58.341 --> 00:21:03.981 - is a very broad statement, but that's all the language that occurred in the bill itself. And that's 00:21:03.981 --> 00:21:08.606 - kind of a copy-paste idea from other states that have put that practice in place. 00:21:08.706 --> 00:21:15.699 - And it would have eliminated most design and architectural standards So after two months of amendment 00:21:15.699 --> 00:21:22.830 - pretty much all that fell by the wayside and what remains is requirement for one public hearing in 2026 00:21:22.830 --> 00:21:30.097 - The purpose of which is to evaluate the zoning and subdivision ordinances to determine if they adequately 00:21:30.097 --> 00:21:37.502 - promote housing developments and that in that hearing What shall be considered is density adu requirements? 00:21:37.666 --> 00:21:44.223 - The potential reuse of vacant commercial buildings for residential use design standards lot size requirements 00:21:44.223 --> 00:21:50.183 - off-street parking height limits and permit streamlining Following that meeting we are to report to 00:21:50.183 --> 00:21:56.144 - the LSA or the Legislative Services Agency Minutes from that hearing and then any resulting changes 00:21:56.144 --> 00:22:02.343 - made to the UDO. There's no teeth There's no stick or carrot attached to that requirement. It's assumed 00:22:02.343 --> 00:22:05.502 - among other planners and the places where we chatter 00:22:05.602 --> 00:22:12.595 - Those carrots and sticks might be brought to bear next year. But for now, it's just language What it 00:22:12.595 --> 00:22:19.657 - also did HB 1001 I should say did it's still on the governor's desk. It's been approved by the Senate 00:22:19.657 --> 00:22:26.720 - in the house It is expected to be signed by the governor, but hasn't yet it changed the way that fees 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:31.774 - are in a modest way the way that fees are tabulated for applications and 00:22:31.906 --> 00:22:37.673 - Changes to building code and stormwater code and one of the disappointments it removed two Elements 00:22:37.673 --> 00:22:43.497 - of building code that would have been changed to one of them would have allowed for single staircase 00:22:43.497 --> 00:22:49.264 - construction which has been being done in a lot of other cities and that makes it takes the cost of 00:22:49.264 --> 00:22:55.550 - building small apartments down about 12% and then it also changed modifications to elevator requirements and 00:22:56.098 --> 00:23:03.766 - The final thing it does is it requires that we report as a city on progress toward? housing goals So 00:23:03.766 --> 00:23:11.358 - we we need to establish those goals and then in that report we indicate how many housing units have 00:23:11.358 --> 00:23:18.951 - been approved denied any Explain any discrepancies and data talk about average and medium home sell 00:23:18.951 --> 00:23:23.582 - prices and year-over-year changes same with rent And then we 00:23:23.682 --> 00:23:29.306 - Submit all that to the IH CDA, which is the Indiana Housing Community Development Authority and they'll 00:23:29.306 --> 00:23:34.984 - compile and publish a report again No sticks no carrots attached with any of this language. It's assumed 00:23:34.984 --> 00:23:40.662 - that the state will examine that idea next year None of this is a bad idea though. I think the reporting 00:23:40.662 --> 00:23:46.178 - is a good thing. It's being done in a number of other states I think with differing levels of success 00:23:46.178 --> 00:23:50.558 - because it's hard to enforce but but it's not a bad thing to get in the habit of 00:23:51.458 --> 00:23:57.911 - So with HB 1001 settled And the state legislative session over for the year I think it's time to discuss 00:23:57.911 --> 00:24:04.365 - moving forward with what we've been talking about for a while, which again would be UDO changes relative 00:24:04.365 --> 00:24:10.573 - to housing attainability Changes that can make housing attainability something more within reach for 00:24:10.573 --> 00:24:16.780 - more people in Bloomington and what we propose is to put together a working group consisting of city 00:24:16.780 --> 00:24:20.222 - staff of city councillors and of plan commissioners and 00:24:20.322 --> 00:24:26.807 - To construct draft language that we then take back out to the public something we've been doing for 00:24:26.807 --> 00:24:33.421 - the past year Probably for three or four different open houses or public meetings And then bring back 00:24:33.421 --> 00:24:40.295 - Come midsummer roughly summer to the Plan Commission and ultimately to the council So with that president 00:24:40.295 --> 00:24:47.298 - Asari we would suggest that if I could reach out to you in the coming days and and talk about participation 00:24:47.298 --> 00:24:49.438 - of council on that working group 00:24:49.538 --> 00:24:58.838 - Then that's something that we would move forward with Awesome. Thank you so much director Hittle questions 00:24:58.838 --> 00:25:07.790 - comments, please and councilmember rough Mr. Hittle, I was just wondering If you'd elaborate on on why 00:25:07.790 --> 00:25:16.742 - because I sense there's some kind of a message you're trying to hoping to convey why you've Emphasized 00:25:16.742 --> 00:25:19.262 - or it felt compelled to list 00:25:20.546 --> 00:25:29.402 - the components that were stripped out of HB 1001 before there was a final product. And you did a pretty 00:25:29.402 --> 00:25:37.917 - careful list of everything that was originally there and that was taken out. And I'm just wondering 00:25:37.917 --> 00:25:47.454 - if there was a real intention to convey something to the council and the public by listing its original content 00:25:48.290 --> 00:25:54.914 - Hidden message the things that I listed are things that we've talked about locally for a while And I 00:25:54.914 --> 00:26:01.472 - think another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the states that have been successful and I use 00:26:01.472 --> 00:26:08.424 - that word in a qualified sense because process wise I don't like the idea of the state telling a locality 00:26:08.424 --> 00:26:10.654 - what to do in terms of zoning but 00:26:10.850 --> 00:26:16.504 - Where it's been done in other places, you know it sometimes it is helpful to allow for new types of 00:26:16.504 --> 00:26:22.270 - housing to be built So you kind of there's there's a plus and a minus to it But in other states where 00:26:22.270 --> 00:26:28.037 - they are moving forward and now kind of once they get the taste of blood They they come forward every 00:26:28.037 --> 00:26:33.691 - year with a new amendment a preemptive land use and development amendment most of them having to do 00:26:33.691 --> 00:26:34.878 - with housing but but 00:26:35.490 --> 00:26:43.569 - Those that are coming forward typically involve just those eight to ten to twelve things that I've that 00:26:43.569 --> 00:26:51.337 - I mentioned there so again, no hidden message, but but they're they're all it's kind of the the the 00:26:51.337 --> 00:26:59.182 - top twelve of Housing reform components if you will, thank you. Thank you Councilmember flirty Maybe 00:26:59.182 --> 00:27:05.086 - worth noting that our own adopted plans have a lot of those components, too 00:27:05.442 --> 00:27:12.036 - Thank you for the update Do you have a date? Let's say month or something by which you anticipate working 00:27:12.036 --> 00:27:18.818 - through the process and bringing Proposed you do amendments to the Planning Commission for its consideration 00:27:18.818 --> 00:27:25.101 - and thank you for laying out that process Yeah, we want to probably the very beginning of April have 00:27:25.101 --> 00:27:28.958 - the first meeting of that internal working group and then our 00:27:29.282 --> 00:27:37.729 - Timeline for the rest of the process would have public meetings in May and July We would bring the the 00:27:37.729 --> 00:27:45.929 - basket of amendments to the Plan Commission in July and August and then to the council in August or 00:27:45.929 --> 00:27:54.212 - September Okay. Thank you Councilmember Pema Smith Yes, thank you for your report so I heard two two 00:27:54.212 --> 00:27:58.558 - things that actually did make it into House bill and 00:27:58.658 --> 00:28:06.784 - 2001 Did you say that each city must hold a hearing this year about the various issues considered That 00:28:06.784 --> 00:28:14.990 - were not passed in the bill or is it just that each city has to report on Housing development approvals 00:28:14.990 --> 00:28:23.037 - and denials. It's both there is a requirement that in calendar year 2026 every jurisdiction so that's 00:28:23.037 --> 00:28:25.246 - town cities in counties and 00:28:25.474 --> 00:28:33.115 - a meeting and in that public meeting they they Explicitly examine their zoning ordinance and its ability 00:28:33.115 --> 00:28:40.610 - or inability to Help provide new housing and there are a number of specific kind of the same list that 00:28:40.610 --> 00:28:47.960 - we just talked about Specific elements that need to be reported on From that meeting so that meeting 00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:53.854 - generates minutes and a report to the state following that every year thereafter 00:28:54.466 --> 00:29:01.229 - Every municipality town city county is required to provide a housing report card essentially to the 00:29:01.229 --> 00:29:08.059 - state that talks about housing starts Land use petitions that could lead to more housing than either 00:29:08.059 --> 00:29:14.822 - approved or denied and and You know there it looks like the the language is gearing Towns up to say 00:29:14.822 --> 00:29:21.585 - prove it to us that you're trying to build more housing Again, no sticks. No carrots yet, but we'll 00:29:21.585 --> 00:29:23.614 - see what those turn out to be 00:29:24.546 --> 00:29:31.722 - Thank you customer Stasberg How do you envision or maybe you haven't really thought about it yet that 00:29:31.722 --> 00:29:38.899 - public hearing like is that something that's gonna be like a standalone kind of meeting is that gonna 00:29:38.899 --> 00:29:46.146 - be incorporated into like a plan Commission meeting like is there any guidance or requirements or Like 00:29:46.146 --> 00:29:52.478 - how how is that gonna work? That that that one calendar year 2026 public hearing. Yeah, I 00:29:54.338 --> 00:30:07.180 - There's not much guidance. Let me see, I did take... The language states that the hearing must be public 00:30:07.180 --> 00:30:20.022 - and its purpose is to evaluate zoning and subdivision ordinances to determine if they adequately promote 00:30:20.022 --> 00:30:22.590 - housing development. 00:30:22.722 --> 00:30:29.557 - They shall consider these various things. I guess there's not much more than that. Like a lot of this 00:30:29.557 --> 00:30:36.458 - language, we're sort of left wanting what it is that they desire, what it is we must do to satisfy the 00:30:36.458 --> 00:30:43.561 - requirement. My sense is that meeting could be, it could be a regularly scheduled meeting of the council. 00:30:43.561 --> 00:30:50.262 - It could be perhaps a purposeful proprietary meeting that's scheduled for that. But you know, we're 00:30:50.262 --> 00:30:51.870 - kind of left to wonder. 00:30:52.514 --> 00:30:58.209 - I think it could also be a meeting at which we're considering amendments and things of that nature. 00:30:58.209 --> 00:31:04.188 - Before that, though, before anything's filed as far as UDO amendments, we want to have the working group 00:31:04.188 --> 00:31:09.883 - do its work and then produce language that we can take back out to the public. Probably meetings at 00:31:09.883 --> 00:31:15.748 - the library branches, things like that, taking it on the road outside of this building because I think 00:31:15.748 --> 00:31:20.190 - that outreach that we've done this year has been successful and get feedback. 00:31:20.386 --> 00:31:29.381 - Whatever public meetings were talking about nobody's surprised by anything Thank you Councilmember Rallo 00:31:29.381 --> 00:31:37.947 - So the one concern is that it Essentially it threatens home rule to some extent potentially and the 00:31:37.947 --> 00:31:46.942 - other is that it's an unfunded Mandated reporting that is going to further burden on your department and 00:31:48.578 --> 00:31:55.981 - What are the penalties for not reporting is there any So you'll let us know about further Work that's 00:31:55.981 --> 00:32:03.529 - needed by your department and potential effect on budget. Yeah, it doesn't look to be terribly Dramatic 00:32:03.529 --> 00:32:10.787 - as far as new work for our department because we're at the beginning of the year and we're going to 00:32:10.787 --> 00:32:16.158 - be reporting on calendar year 2026 it's essentially just making sure that 00:32:16.258 --> 00:32:24.191 - You know, we have a spreadsheet that's accounting for for again Housing denials housing approvals. They're 00:32:24.191 --> 00:32:31.754 - also asking us to keep track of time spent its work, but it's it's not going to be taxing I think I'm 00:32:31.754 --> 00:32:39.761 - I don't know much about it, but are there any is are there any targets specific to say efficiency standards 00:32:39.761 --> 00:32:45.470 - or our sustainability and so forth as turn in terms of obstacles to You know 00:32:45.826 --> 00:32:54.222 - Potential housing Targets that were given by this no nothing at all. Okay, nothing at all. Okay. Good. 00:32:54.222 --> 00:33:01.884 - Thanks All right seeing no more questions Director Hittle, thank you so much. Thank you time. 00:33:01.884 --> 00:33:10.036 - Thank you. Thank you. Thank you All right. Do we have any additional? comments or I'm sorry reports 00:33:10.036 --> 00:33:12.318 - from council committees and 00:33:14.594 --> 00:33:23.787 - Seeing none and we'll now move to the best first part of the meeting which is time for public comment 00:33:23.787 --> 00:33:33.520 - This is a time to Oh missing something. Never mind. Sorry. Go ahead Reports or or appointments appointments 00:33:33.520 --> 00:33:39.198 - what that comes next I thought that came first That comes next 00:33:39.554 --> 00:33:46.520 - I'm so sorry. Don't worry, don't worry. Okay, so back to what we're doing now. Now is the time for public 00:33:46.520 --> 00:33:53.223 - comment for things that are not on the agenda. You have three minutes to comment from the public mic. 00:33:53.223 --> 00:33:59.794 - We ask if you kindly sign in. If you would like to make a comment, there will be another section of 00:33:59.794 --> 00:34:06.497 - public comment at the end of the meeting. You can only comment in one of these two sections again for 00:34:06.497 --> 00:34:09.520 - things that are not on the agenda. If you can 00:34:09.520 --> 00:34:18.721 - sign in and state your name or your alias for the record. That would be great. And we'll start with 00:34:18.721 --> 00:34:27.921 - people in the room, and then we'll move online. So with that, is there anyone in the room who would 00:34:27.921 --> 00:34:37.950 - like to make a public comment on things not currently on the agenda? Excellent. Is there anyone online? Yes. 00:34:39.010 --> 00:34:47.750 - Person online, take it away. Hi, this is Paul Russo. I would like to let people know that the Transportation 00:34:47.750 --> 00:34:55.930 - Department is beginning its fourth round of public outreach on the Indiana Avenue Safety Improvements 00:34:55.930 --> 00:35:04.670 - Project that concerns the stretch of Indiana Avenue at the west edge of the IU campus, such as Sample Gates. 00:35:06.530 --> 00:35:12.292 - As a transit bicyclist, my initial reaction to the plan is unfortunately quite negative. The city seems 00:35:12.292 --> 00:35:17.998 - to be doubling down on its expensive mistake that was made on 7th Street because two-way bicycle lanes 00:35:17.998 --> 00:35:24.093 - are not the best practice. One-way bicycle lanes are intrinsically safer because they conform to expectations 00:35:24.093 --> 00:35:29.744 - of motor vehicle drivers. At one point, the plan features a disappearing and then reappearing bicycle 00:35:29.744 --> 00:35:32.126 - lane. At another point, there would be two 00:35:32.258 --> 00:35:37.983 - two-way serpentine path that crosses from one side of the street to the other while yielding to motor 00:35:37.983 --> 00:35:43.765 - vehicles and the intersections of Indiana at 7th and 10th are similarly ill-conceived. My view is that 00:35:43.765 --> 00:35:49.602 - this would be an expensive engineering project that would make the area worse for bicycling not better. 00:35:49.602 --> 00:35:55.328 - I bring all this up because to anyone who's listening, I encourage you to join me in asking this. Why 00:35:55.328 --> 00:36:01.502 - does the city continue to regard expensive engineering as the best tool or even the only tool in its toolbox? 00:36:02.306 --> 00:36:09.469 - for attaining safe transit for bicyclists and pedestrians. How much would it cost, for example, to hire 00:36:09.469 --> 00:36:16.632 - two or three extra police officers dedicated to the enforcement of dangerous moving violations by motor 00:36:16.632 --> 00:36:23.863 - vehicle drivers? How much would it cost the city to hire a public relations expert to educate the public 00:36:23.863 --> 00:36:30.888 - about how to share public space with bicyclists and pedestrians? These questions keep me up at night. 00:36:30.888 --> 00:36:31.646 - Thank you. 00:36:32.834 --> 00:36:44.269 - Thank You mr. Rousseau any other commenters online Thank you so much, all right, well now move Appointments 00:36:44.269 --> 00:36:54.856 - to boards and commissions. Do we have any? Like to move that For on behalf of committee team a that 00:36:54.856 --> 00:37:01.950 - we reappoint Joe Throckmorton Joe Throckmorton to seat see one and 00:37:02.434 --> 00:37:11.479 - the BZA and Katarina coke to seat c3 of the Bloomington Urban Enterprise Association Okay, those were 00:37:11.479 --> 00:37:20.524 - those were not your committees, but we That's fine so so are there any First is there a second? Okay, 00:37:20.524 --> 00:37:29.835 - so there's a there's a there's a second any comments or questions Ideally to the folks on the committee, 00:37:29.835 --> 00:37:32.318 - please come some of clarity 00:37:34.178 --> 00:37:40.880 - Yes, thank you just a comment because I had brought up previously when mr. Throckmorton was recommended 00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:47.582 - for reappointment to the BZA some concerns about Issues we'd had with the BZA as a body in recent years 00:37:47.582 --> 00:37:54.091 - with respect to major delays on approving conditional use petitions specifically for duplexes And my 00:37:54.091 --> 00:38:00.664 - recollection was that that our appointee had some involvement in that and and I the committee took it 00:38:00.664 --> 00:38:01.502 - back and and 00:38:01.698 --> 00:38:06.939 - engaged in more diligence around that question, which I really appreciate. So thank you for doing that. 00:38:06.939 --> 00:38:12.231 - Also, thank you to Mr. Throckmorton for his service. I think he's been a very good BZA member, generally 00:38:12.231 --> 00:38:17.372 - speaking. This is just an area of concern because it's really the core at which David Hittle was just 00:38:17.372 --> 00:38:22.562 - sharing remarks about preemption issues to try to allow housing to move forward by setting regulations 00:38:22.562 --> 00:38:27.905 - and letting people follow them. And I think, in general, we should change the conditional use requirement 00:38:27.905 --> 00:38:30.878 - for duplexes and get rid of it. But even where we have it, 00:38:31.234 --> 00:38:38.053 - We need to make sure that we're not creating undue delays unnecessarily So what happens with the conditional 00:38:38.053 --> 00:38:44.435 - use is we have use specific standards in code and the BZA is meant to make findings about those staff 00:38:44.435 --> 00:38:50.691 - usually propose findings And in particular at the first meeting this was heard if a majority of the 00:38:50.691 --> 00:38:56.947 - members had voted to agree with staffs findings They could have approved a petition and meeting one 00:38:56.947 --> 00:38:59.262 - instead only two of the five members 00:38:59.778 --> 00:39:04.636 - voted, were willing to vote that way that night, and it ended up being delayed for six months. There 00:39:04.636 --> 00:39:09.398 - were quorum issues, there were lots of other things. It entails additional cost, delay in housing, 00:39:09.398 --> 00:39:14.352 - et cetera. So it's one instance, but it's, I think, reflective of a broader issue. And I think, I hope 00:39:14.352 --> 00:39:19.162 - it's helped bring some attention to it as something that, you know, when the BZA is considering the 00:39:19.162 --> 00:39:24.165 - findings proposed by staff, if they disagree with those findings, they need to bring different findings 00:39:24.165 --> 00:39:28.638 - to vote on and decide if they're gonna do something different. And that's not what happened. 00:39:28.738 --> 00:39:34.277 - And so, it really seemed like an unacceptable delay in my mind. I hope something was learned from it. 00:39:34.277 --> 00:39:39.815 - I'm gonna support the appointment, and I just hope that our folks serving on the BZA really keep that 00:39:39.815 --> 00:39:45.299 - in mind, that that type of delay really isn't acceptable. One last note on it, which is that it came 00:39:45.299 --> 00:39:50.892 - up in the diligence, you know, should we have gone to Mr. Throckmorton and kind of raised this? I even 00:39:50.892 --> 00:39:56.702 - thought about that at the time, and I chose not to, because the BZA is an independent quasi-judicial body, 00:39:56.802 --> 00:40:01.419 - I do think they should have that independence to make judgments as they see fit I didn't feel it was 00:40:01.419 --> 00:40:06.265 - appropriate to for the council to kind of Say this is what we think there are bodies we make appointments 00:40:06.265 --> 00:40:10.837 - to where that is probably more appropriate I think the CIB for instance is one of them But BZA less 00:40:10.837 --> 00:40:15.865 - so so I just wanted to address that as well. So again, thank you to all for looking into this I do appreciate 00:40:15.865 --> 00:40:18.654 - it. Thanks Thank you so much any other comments or questions 00:40:19.394 --> 00:40:26.830 - Okay, seeing none, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor of these two appointments, please 00:40:26.830 --> 00:40:34.049 - say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Anyone abstaining? That motion passes nine, zero. Are there any other 00:40:34.049 --> 00:40:41.340 - appointments? Councilman Ref, any other appointments? There was a pregnant pause, I felt like. Yeah, 00:40:41.340 --> 00:40:48.126 - go ahead. Do we have any? No, I think that's all of them, okay? We have more? Go ahead, then. 00:40:48.450 --> 00:40:55.492 - I guess I'll do it interview committee team B would like to recommend for the environmental Commission 00:40:55.492 --> 00:41:02.534 - appointment Carl Geyser to seat c1 and Justin Meister to seat c6 and Then also for the utility service 00:41:02.534 --> 00:41:09.644 - board to appoint Graham McKean to seat c3. Are there any comments or questions? Sorry, thank you motion 00:41:09.644 --> 00:41:15.934 - in the second any comments or questions here Okay, seeing none all those in favor say aye I 00:41:16.514 --> 00:41:22.975 - Any opposed say aye Any abstaining that passes nine zero as well General comment there are a lot of 00:41:22.975 --> 00:41:29.435 - open positions throughout the year to serve on boards and commissions We would love all of the many 00:41:29.435 --> 00:41:36.219 - of you who are here to apply for them so that you can help govern the city Thank you very much any other 00:41:36.219 --> 00:41:43.390 - Appointments to boards and commissions. I believe that's all of them now Congratulations, we did it. All right 00:41:43.586 --> 00:41:54.417 - We are now moving to legislation for first readings. Are there any motions? I move that ordinance 2026-06 00:41:54.417 --> 00:42:04.942 - be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only. Second. There's a motion and a second. 00:42:04.942 --> 00:42:12.606 - Is there any discussion? Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll? 00:42:16.194 --> 00:42:24.552 - Nope, we can do a voice vote? Oh, we can do a voice vote? Yeah! Okay, well in which case, for the motion 00:42:24.552 --> 00:42:32.911 - and the second to have the clerk read by synopsis and title, please signify yes by saying aye. All those 00:42:32.911 --> 00:42:41.110 - in favor? Aye. Anyone opposed? Anyone abstaining? That carries nine zero. Clerk, will you please read? 00:42:41.110 --> 00:42:42.622 - Ordinance 2026-06. 00:42:42.722 --> 00:42:49.771 - to amend the city of Bloomington zoning maps by rezoning a 6.3 acre property from residential urban 00:42:49.771 --> 00:42:56.820 - lot r4 and residential multifamily rm within the transform right development overlay tro to planned 00:42:56.820 --> 00:43:03.870 - unit development pud and to prove a district ordinance and preliminary plan the synopsis reads this 00:43:03.870 --> 00:43:09.086 - ordinance amends the zoning of the property from residential urban lot r4 00:43:09.474 --> 00:43:17.768 - and residential multifamily RM within the transform redevelopment overlay TRO to planned unit development 00:43:17.768 --> 00:43:25.750 - PUD. Thank you. Are there any other motions? I move to discuss this legislation. There's a motion and 00:43:25.750 --> 00:43:33.731 - a second. All those in favor of the motion, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, that motion carries 00:43:33.731 --> 00:43:38.974 - 9-0. Who is here on behalf of the mayor? Please welcome our mayor. 00:43:39.426 --> 00:43:47.283 - to give the presentation. Oh, you got applause. We resent it. I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. I 00:43:47.283 --> 00:43:55.297 - welcome you, council. Good evening, everyone. The Hopewell neighborhood which you're considering this 00:43:55.297 --> 00:44:03.311 - evening is a tremendous step forward in creating a Bloomington that our workforce can actually afford 00:44:03.311 --> 00:44:04.254 - to live in. 00:44:05.314 --> 00:44:11.804 - For more than three decades, Bloomington has been the least affordable place to live in the state of 00:44:11.804 --> 00:44:18.487 - Indiana. Solving affordability for our community has no one simple answer, but is instead a combination 00:44:18.487 --> 00:44:25.362 - of factors, only some of which are under the control of the city government. Land use planning and zoning, 00:44:25.362 --> 00:44:28.254 - however, is a major obstacle in Bloomington. 00:44:29.026 --> 00:44:36.536 - With the opportunity to design an entire neighborhood within walking distance of every service of family 00:44:36.536 --> 00:44:43.688 - needs, our team, in partnership with Flintlock Labs, has created a design for nearly 100 homes. The 00:44:43.688 --> 00:44:51.198 - neighborhood does three things. It provides the most affordable new homeownership options in the county. 00:44:52.482 --> 00:44:59.835 - With starting prices anticipated at $83,500, we have hit a target that no one else has been able to 00:44:59.835 --> 00:45:07.188 - meet. Second, we're providing a design that serves as a living model of what a few instrumental UDO 00:45:07.188 --> 00:45:14.835 - changes can do for housing in our community. This will be a warm, welcoming, and beautiful neighborhood 00:45:14.835 --> 00:45:16.894 - that's pedestrian friendly, 00:45:17.186 --> 00:45:24.970 - and makes excellent use of land and resources, showing the community what's possible when we work creatively 00:45:24.970 --> 00:45:32.112 - to design spaces that welcome more of our community. Third, it gets our smaller local builders back 00:45:32.112 --> 00:45:39.325 - to building in Bloomington. Our zoning code and the financing behind creating units has far too long 00:45:39.325 --> 00:45:47.038 - given the advantage to large scale private equity funded apartments that are not targeted to our workforce. 00:45:47.618 --> 00:45:55.281 - Are not created by our local builders in an economy that is dependent on gaining more housing Our local 00:45:55.281 --> 00:46:03.019 - skilled trades trades labor is shrinking and this provides a space to get our builders back to the table 00:46:03.019 --> 00:46:10.608 - building locally Time is of the essence the community started envisioning what they wanted in Hopewell 00:46:10.608 --> 00:46:16.798 - in 2017 City Council is not the final step in the approval process for this PUD and 00:46:17.794 --> 00:46:25.763 - In fact, it is only midway. If you approve this development tonight, we still wouldn't be able to break 00:46:25.763 --> 00:46:33.808 - ground on homes until the fall. If this state step takes longer, we will miss the entire building season 00:46:33.808 --> 00:46:41.854 - and these homes realistically will increase in costs by five to 10%. The homeowners won't get more house 00:46:41.854 --> 00:46:47.294 - or better features. They will simply be investing in our city process. 00:46:48.130 --> 00:46:54.759 - Let's get Hopewell right, but let's make sure that we don't needlessly add process that doesn't, 00:46:54.759 --> 00:47:01.661 - in the end, improve the product. That is cost our residents don't deserve to bear. We finally have a 00:47:01.661 --> 00:47:08.631 - viable project that is also financially attainable for our community members. Hopewell will not solve 00:47:08.631 --> 00:47:15.397 - our housing challenge in the city, but carried out well and used as a model for future incremental 00:47:15.397 --> 00:47:17.310 - development and UDO changes 00:47:17.570 --> 00:47:25.469 - It will be a significant domino that can move us forward as a city. Thank you for your consideration 00:47:25.469 --> 00:47:33.369 - this evening. I'm going to turn it over to Ali from Flintlock lab. Thank you, mayor Thompson. Is Ali 00:47:33.369 --> 00:47:41.581 - here or online? I was on that. Okay. Fantastic. Hi guys. I am able to screen share if that's okay. Okay. 00:47:41.581 --> 00:47:45.726 - That is showing on my end. If you guys can see that. 00:47:47.042 --> 00:47:52.664 - So, as the mayor referenced, we're working on, we're a small team of architects and landscape architects. 00:47:52.664 --> 00:47:58.180 - We're based in Fayetteville, Arkansas, and hopefully you guys were able to join us for our city council 00:47:58.180 --> 00:48:03.802 - working session. So, some of this may be repeat. We work with a national nonprofit called the Incremental 00:48:03.802 --> 00:48:08.894 - Development Alliance that trains small locals and is a part of the partnership of this project. 00:48:08.994 --> 00:48:14.978 - So we're doing everything from design of the neighborhood design of the homes pre permitting of those 00:48:14.978 --> 00:48:21.139 - homes, and then training of locals to build them both capacity building for general development of homes 00:48:21.139 --> 00:48:27.417 - by locals in in town as well as the construction of these homes themselves. We're also joined by a partner 00:48:27.417 --> 00:48:29.118 - who is based out of Atlanta. 00:48:29.250 --> 00:48:34.473 - we've got a really broad team that does small development ourselves, right? So we, we understand how 00:48:34.473 --> 00:48:40.058 - hard it is to get this kind of housing that is what we really need and what most communities are struggling 00:48:40.058 --> 00:48:45.333 - to provide on the ground. We understand how many regulations stand in the way of that. One thing that 00:48:45.333 --> 00:48:50.763 - we talk about a lot is who we, you know, demographically, statistically your housing is really different 00:48:50.763 --> 00:48:54.590 - than it was when a lot of, um, you know, current building codes, current, 00:48:54.754 --> 00:49:00.723 - construction financing tools, current housing system, ecosystem tools were built. The household size 00:49:00.723 --> 00:49:06.632 - in America used to be around four people. It's getting really small. The most common household type 00:49:06.632 --> 00:49:12.778 - number of people in a house is two adults, no kids. Our second most common household type is one person 00:49:12.778 --> 00:49:19.161 - living alone. So that means about three quarters of our households are one or two people typically sleeping 00:49:19.161 --> 00:49:20.638 - in one bedroom at night. 00:49:20.738 --> 00:49:27.115 - The flip side of that is our houses are really large. And even the new best zoning codes tend to have 00:49:27.115 --> 00:49:33.430 - lot sizes and tend to have minimum lot frontages that sometimes can be a challenge with that. So one 00:49:33.430 --> 00:49:39.745 - of the things that we're looking at calibrating and testing through this PUD would then be potential 00:49:39.745 --> 00:49:46.622 - ordinance changes generally is reducing those somewhat so that we can provide more individual household units 00:49:46.786 --> 00:49:52.734 - for those small households, typically on smaller lot sizes, which then gets us to more affordable price points. 00:49:53.346 --> 00:49:59.316 - This really helps support too, the costs that we see in terms of both physical and service infrastructure 00:49:59.316 --> 00:50:05.060 - by the city. Typically, what we describe as what we're trying to achieve here is housing choice, that 00:50:05.060 --> 00:50:10.692 - you can find the kind of house that you need at a price point that you can afford in a neighborhood 00:50:10.692 --> 00:50:16.323 - that you like anywhere in town throughout your life cycle. That does mean that there should be some 00:50:16.323 --> 00:50:21.054 - homes that you can raise small children in, you should have some big family houses. 00:50:21.250 --> 00:50:26.352 - Typically, statistically, not a lot of them, but a couple. There are a few in this neighborhood. You 00:50:26.352 --> 00:50:31.455 - also need a wide variety of household sizes and arrangements to provide for those smaller households 00:50:31.455 --> 00:50:34.334 - that are really underserved generally within the market. 00:50:34.978 --> 00:50:40.766 - This works significantly better than only being able to provide slightly larger houses on larger lots 00:50:40.766 --> 00:50:46.724 - with larger backyards and using green infrastructure practices and working really closely with the city, 00:50:46.724 --> 00:50:52.569 - we're able to provide all of the stormwater requirements within smaller green space footprints so that 00:50:52.569 --> 00:50:58.300 - we can provide more diverse housing at better price points and in a walkable neighborhood format. We 00:50:58.300 --> 00:50:59.038 - also want to 00:50:59.106 --> 00:51:04.714 - recognize as the mayor reference that there are a lot of deadbolts on the door to getting the housing 00:51:04.714 --> 00:51:10.378 - ecosystem that we need. Zoning is one. We've already made a huge step in Bloomington and passing a new 00:51:10.378 --> 00:51:15.986 - UDO. It is really common within cities that have done so to find a couple of things that do need some 00:51:15.986 --> 00:51:21.594 - calibration. Likely once that first round of calibration is done, it would not be unusual to now that 00:51:21.594 --> 00:51:27.148 - some new things have been legalized, to find some things that no one was aware was a problem because 00:51:27.148 --> 00:51:29.072 - they weren't trying to do projects 00:51:29.072 --> 00:51:32.030 - the impact of that. So that process is really normal. 00:51:32.098 --> 00:51:38.071 - Subdivision codes is another place that we see presenting a lot of challenges in a lot of communities 00:51:38.071 --> 00:51:43.926 - in being able to provide attainable housing that's really geared around homeownership. Building and 00:51:43.926 --> 00:51:49.840 - fire code is another thing that is a state level requirement that a lot of municipalities nationally 00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:55.696 - are really working together through their municipal leagues to support state level changes to those 00:51:55.696 --> 00:52:02.078 - building and fire codes to make sure that we can have practical solutions that are both safe and affordable. 00:52:02.914 --> 00:52:08.196 - stormwater and financing rules tend to not be very flexible. And so we have to also work around the 00:52:08.196 --> 00:52:13.953 - fact that not each one of these deadbolts is something that through a PUD can be addressed. And so sometimes 00:52:13.953 --> 00:52:19.288 - we have to come up with creative solutions to work around things that are not flexible. The way that 00:52:19.288 --> 00:52:24.570 - the construction will be financed, the way financing will work for future buyers, those are federal 00:52:24.570 --> 00:52:30.274 - statutes that really are not flexible at all. So as we look at Bloomington's both affordability challenges, 00:52:30.274 --> 00:52:31.806 - we also notice that there is 00:52:31.970 --> 00:52:38.207 - Especially compared to peer cities. I'm in a peer city. I'm in a fellow college town, almost exactly 00:52:38.207 --> 00:52:44.382 - the same population, almost the same student population, same karst landscape. And we also struggle 00:52:44.382 --> 00:52:50.680 - with providing enough owner occupied housing in a market that is really geared and influenced by that 00:52:50.680 --> 00:52:52.286 - large student population. 00:52:53.794 --> 00:53:00.207 - Also as referenced, the Hopewell master plan has been long in the process and even in the original master 00:53:00.207 --> 00:53:06.378 - plans for, so we're down in blocks eight, nine, and 10. There were originally more creative household 00:53:06.378 --> 00:53:12.731 - layouts and lot layouts, homes fronting onto greens, envisioned in that original master plan and desired 00:53:12.731 --> 00:53:19.023 - by citizens. So high level, what is this PUD trying to achieve? We're trying to get to a mix of housing 00:53:19.023 --> 00:53:20.414 - types of price points. 00:53:20.642 --> 00:53:25.868 - We're trying to get to a full pre-permitted set of home designs that streamlines our permitting, 00:53:25.868 --> 00:53:31.741 - reduce costs, and gets people in homes faster. That also simplifies our zoning somewhat as we are permitting 00:53:31.741 --> 00:53:37.399 - a set of houses, not necessarily a set of architectural standards. We're going to be able to see exactly 00:53:37.399 --> 00:53:42.894 - what the products are within the PUD itself, which is a way that a lot of cities are starting to move 00:53:42.894 --> 00:53:47.582 - on these kinds of projects. This builds opportunities for local builders. They will be 00:53:47.938 --> 00:53:53.705 - coached and trained through process. Some of them may already be really established and may need less 00:53:53.705 --> 00:53:59.528 - of that support. For those more experienced small developers and locals, this will be a really turnkey 00:53:59.528 --> 00:54:05.182 - shovel-ready project that lets them do what they're best at without getting bogged down in process. 00:54:05.182 --> 00:54:10.270 - We're bringing a lot of the efficiencies of larger scale development to local developers. 00:54:10.370 --> 00:54:16.531 - We're also working with the RDC and the City Attorney on legal frameworks to support permanent affordability 00:54:16.531 --> 00:54:22.297 - as well as blended market rate homes. And we had a lot of great commentary from Plan Commission about 00:54:22.297 --> 00:54:27.949 - the best ways to do that that work within some of those inflexible federal finance rules. So we are 00:54:27.949 --> 00:54:34.110 - working through that framework now to ensure that these are both affordable at beginning sale and long term. 00:54:35.394 --> 00:54:41.095 - There's ongoing community outreach and developer training as part of this program, as well as focus 00:54:41.095 --> 00:54:47.081 - groups. And we are kind of in our overall program schedule. We are working through this PUD and platting 00:54:47.081 --> 00:54:52.953 - process. So if approved, the civil engineering team on this will work through preliminary plat to plat 00:54:52.953 --> 00:54:56.830 - lots. We would have an initial phase that we are working on that is 00:54:56.930 --> 00:55:03.246 - is R4 compliant. Several homes, it would be able to come vertical more quickly. And some of those lots 00:55:03.246 --> 00:55:09.378 - would be duplexes now, could be split later if the PUD is approved. And then horizontal development 00:55:09.378 --> 00:55:16.062 - would occur all in one phase with then home construction phased in once the horizontal infrastructure is in. 00:55:16.322 --> 00:55:21.747 - And we ran through some case studies as well as part of this program showing some general ideas of the 00:55:21.747 --> 00:55:27.014 - way that some of these ideas could be brought into the rest of the city. One thing that Bloomington 00:55:27.014 --> 00:55:32.439 - has that is an enormous asset we don't see a lot is quite a few platted, unbuilt alleys. We often call 00:55:32.439 --> 00:55:36.126 - these paper alleys, right? They exist on paper but not on site often. 00:55:36.738 --> 00:55:41.825 - One thing that we have seen cities do previously is allow alleys in my hometown, currently allows this, 00:55:41.825 --> 00:55:46.962 - you can use an alley as street frontage. One of the other things that's really specific to Bloomington's 00:55:46.962 --> 00:55:51.951 - pattern is you have very deep lots. We've got really good build out at the street, which means as you 00:55:51.951 --> 00:55:56.158 - drive around a neighborhood, it doesn't feel like there's anywhere to infill develop. 00:55:56.258 --> 00:56:01.874 - And in a lot of really successful college towns like Austin, Texas, you see a lot of those old homes 00:56:01.874 --> 00:56:07.489 - being torn down. That is an enormous challenge for us, both from an architectural standpoint, from a 00:56:07.489 --> 00:56:13.049 - character standpoint, but also from an affordability standpoint. The most affordable house is often 00:56:13.049 --> 00:56:18.776 - an existing house. So there's an opportunity here with allowing alleys as frontage, which is something 00:56:18.776 --> 00:56:23.836 - that we're testing within the PUD, to create rear lots that can be platted separately, can 00:56:23.836 --> 00:56:25.726 - be sold separately, and can which 00:56:25.954 --> 00:56:31.515 - can functionally double our amount of homes that we can produce in a block while preserving the homes 00:56:31.515 --> 00:56:36.967 - at the street. And so this is the kind of idea we were trying to test on a smaller scale to then be 00:56:36.967 --> 00:56:42.637 - able to be vetted before being brought citywide. So what are some of the other things that we're asking 00:56:42.637 --> 00:56:44.382 - for in the PUD to achieve this? 00:56:44.610 --> 00:56:50.958 - We're trying out smaller streets, so smaller rights-of-way that still meet all of the standards of fire 00:56:50.958 --> 00:56:57.122 - code and fire access and ADA, but do sit within a narrower street frontage, which is picking up some 00:56:57.122 --> 00:57:03.226 - additional lots and is, in our opinion, really aligned with the transportation plans, respecting of 00:57:03.226 --> 00:57:05.118 - existing street rights-of-way. 00:57:05.474 --> 00:57:10.512 - And this is something that we work on a lot. You know, one of the things that cities struggle with is 00:57:10.512 --> 00:57:15.847 - that streets sometimes show up on the books as an asset, but they are really a liability. There's something 00:57:15.847 --> 00:57:20.934 - that we have to pay for or we're not be able to get tax revenue from. The more additional right of way 00:57:20.934 --> 00:57:25.923 - that we have that we are not putting into productive use, the harder that is from an overall balance 00:57:25.923 --> 00:57:31.159 - sheet and buildable thriving place standpoint. So we're seeing lots of communities move to smaller rights 00:57:31.159 --> 00:57:34.814 - of way, especially in their walkable communities, keeping traffic slower. 00:57:35.490 --> 00:57:41.220 - We're working on diverse housing frontages here. So houses that like some of these built examples of 00:57:41.220 --> 00:57:47.006 - our work front onto green spaces front onto small streets or front in some cases on only onto trails. 00:57:48.354 --> 00:57:54.064 - We're also working on reintroducing several housing types and sets of density. So the pre-approved plans 00:57:54.064 --> 00:57:59.666 - are intended to be able to be rolled out in the future city-wide. And so they provide some good models 00:57:59.666 --> 00:58:05.376 - of specific building details and separation details, fire code, you know, compliance, separation between 00:58:05.376 --> 00:58:10.815 - townhouses, fire rated EADS. The typical home builders often are not gonna run into, but by vetting 00:58:10.815 --> 00:58:16.308 - those through pre-approved programs often can get to a workforce training standpoint of comfort with 00:58:16.308 --> 00:58:18.320 - those details that works really well 00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:24.979 - in the field. This can be a way to reintroduce a good diversity of housing types, building types that 00:58:24.979 --> 00:58:31.639 - are compliant with all of our details in an easier way that makes for faster uptake. So site plan and 00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:38.298 - review, we ran through a few different variations of our, we've got our parcel A planning area, which 00:58:38.298 --> 00:58:44.892 - is block 10, parcel A on block nine, parcel B, which is a slightly different set of standards, we're 00:58:44.892 --> 00:58:48.222 - preserving an existing building on parcel B. Under 00:58:48.450 --> 00:58:54.279 - The current R4 zoning, which is our most intensive single-family zoning, which we can actually build 00:58:54.279 --> 00:59:00.338 - up to, I believe, a fourplex per each lot, we're able to get 28 home lots under those current standards. 00:59:00.338 --> 00:59:06.167 - A lot of that is based on, we've got a lot of lot depth. That means that even though our lot minimum 00:59:06.167 --> 00:59:11.938 - is able to be smaller because of the lot frontage, we've got to comply with both. So we end up with 00:59:11.938 --> 00:59:16.382 - larger lots than the lot area minimum might suggest in a lot of these cases. 00:59:16.866 --> 00:59:24.048 - So we also had some early variations with, you know, full 60 foot rights of way and a little bit more 00:59:24.048 --> 00:59:30.526 - single family focus and trying to find the right balance between those rights of way width. 00:59:30.626 --> 00:59:37.558 - engineering standards, fire standards, and our trash truck turning radii, we ended up with a blend of 00:59:37.558 --> 00:59:44.489 - really small multifamily buildings, lots of single families, some duplexes, some townhouses, a really 00:59:44.489 --> 00:59:51.353 - good variety in size, and ended up with around 98 homes. From an accessibility standpoint, this site 00:59:51.353 --> 00:59:56.382 - is a little limited by its topography. We have more or less a ridge line, 00:59:56.514 --> 01:00:02.342 - up along this section, crossing Fairview. And so this is our most level section. So you'll notice we're 01:00:02.342 --> 01:00:08.058 - clustering our accessible homes, which will, we've got three different standards of accessible homes, 01:00:08.058 --> 01:00:13.830 - universal design, which is compliant with city code, FHA compliant units, which is also called an ANSI 01:00:13.830 --> 01:00:14.558 - type B unit. 01:00:14.754 --> 01:00:20.323 - And then full ADA compliant units, which are the kind of standards you would see in a nursing home or 01:00:20.323 --> 01:00:26.000 - a hotel. That's the most stringent standard. And so we've got three different kinds of those units that 01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:31.678 - are really clustered in locations that they can be provided with a zero step entry based on topography. 01:00:31.842 --> 01:00:38.249 - So 30% of our units, almost 29% of them meet universal design standards exceeding that 20% minimum standard. 01:00:38.249 --> 01:00:44.126 - And half of those universal design homes are an ANSI standard rather than they'll kind of lower the 01:00:44.126 --> 01:00:50.533 - minimum universal design standards. So we've had some good detail conversations with our local accessibility 01:00:50.533 --> 01:00:56.939 - groups to get some feedback of specific priorities that are high priority to include even in those universal 01:00:56.939 --> 01:00:58.526 - design homes when the full 01:00:58.658 --> 01:01:04.378 - full standards can't necessarily be met for some, you know, often grading reason. As a little bit of 01:01:04.378 --> 01:01:10.097 - a background, because we've had a lot of conversation about accessibility on this, just to make sure 01:01:10.097 --> 01:01:16.100 - everybody's a little bit on the same page, the ADA or ANSI Type A, that most, you know, kind of stringent 01:01:16.100 --> 01:01:21.763 - set of standards, the largest items that it requires are, you know, the things that do increase the 01:01:21.763 --> 01:01:22.782 - size of the home. 01:01:22.882 --> 01:01:28.138 - Our bathroom requirements, we've got to get a full five foot turnaround within the bathroom. There is 01:01:28.138 --> 01:01:33.395 - also a full five foot six open space around the toilet. Those two components are larger than we would 01:01:33.395 --> 01:01:39.012 - typically see in a residential bathroom. And so you really do have to start the home design from a bathrooms 01:01:39.012 --> 01:01:44.371 - and kitchen standpoint. And the hallways end up wider too. Do you need to have a five foot wide hallway 01:01:44.371 --> 01:01:48.030 - instead of a more typical, you know, slightly over three foot hallway? 01:01:49.090 --> 01:01:54.399 - Fair Housing Act is what is required anytime we have a building that has more than four units in it. 01:01:54.399 --> 01:01:59.814 - All of the ground floor units are required to be fair housing. So these are more common in residential 01:01:59.814 --> 01:02:05.123 - units and often if you hear someone say it's an accessible unit, this is typically the standard that 01:02:05.123 --> 01:02:08.382 - they're referencing. These are also called ANSI type B units. 01:02:09.026 --> 01:02:16.124 - and they have a larger area in the bathroom than a typical bathroom might, but much smaller, 01:02:16.124 --> 01:02:24.139 - as you can tell, than an ADA bathroom. There are approaches that are required, but not full turnarounds. 01:02:24.139 --> 01:02:31.771 - So again, there's kind of our ANSI A, ANSI B, and then the ANSI C type. Nobody really uses much. So 01:02:31.771 --> 01:02:33.374 - looking at examples, 01:02:33.474 --> 01:02:39.411 - of what that looks like on the ground, right? So we've got to get a two-bedroom, one-story unit in, 01:02:39.411 --> 01:02:45.764 - it's about 900 square feet. For reference to a two-bedroom fair housing unit, it can be about 10% smaller. 01:02:45.764 --> 01:02:51.819 - So they're not dramatically different, but typically, you know, if we're looking at universal design, 01:02:51.819 --> 01:02:57.816 - we can get almost a full three-bedroom in the square footage that we can get an ADA unit. So there's 01:02:57.816 --> 01:03:00.606 - a little variety and some costs and, you know, 01:03:00.802 --> 01:03:06.652 - priority choices that will be made I think through some of the development of exactly which house goes 01:03:06.652 --> 01:03:12.389 - on which lot and it sounds like as we develop the house plans themselves in detail that there's some 01:03:12.389 --> 01:03:18.240 - good flexibility to make sure that we are meeting some of those accessibility goals in more specifics. 01:03:18.240 --> 01:03:23.920 - Examples of the units that are shown in the plan here, we've got a two-bedroom accessible unit that 01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:26.078 - is one story that's called the eGrit. 01:03:26.210 --> 01:03:31.369 - We have a one-bedroom accessible unit that is called the Gardena, and then our full ADA one-bedroom 01:03:31.369 --> 01:03:37.406 - is called the B-Bomb. And there's a single one of those in one place, and then there's a duplex in another location. 01:03:38.946 --> 01:03:44.005 - One central design feature of the site itself is that we have both a pedestrian network, which we're 01:03:44.005 --> 01:03:49.064 - showing in the green, which is used as a primary frontage for all of these central houses. The front 01:03:49.064 --> 01:03:54.073 - door and front porch point to that direction. And then we've got our car circulation in blue. So we 01:03:54.073 --> 01:03:59.132 - also have traditional street frontage towards First Street and towards Wiley. Wiley is provided with 01:03:59.132 --> 01:04:04.141 - a larger setback than the other streets so that we can preserve some existing trees along Wiley and 01:04:04.141 --> 01:04:06.846 - preserve more of the character that it currently has. 01:04:08.642 --> 01:04:15.034 - From a phasing standpoint, although all the horizontal infrastructure will be installed at once, we 01:04:15.034 --> 01:04:21.426 - anticipate that there will be a first phase that is done with a larger setback on these few lots in 01:04:21.426 --> 01:04:27.883 - R4 zoning. And then the rest of Block 10 would be the next phase that goes vertical. We would likely 01:04:27.883 --> 01:04:34.339 - start along First Street for a third phase and build out along Wiley for the fourth phase. The fifth 01:04:34.339 --> 01:04:38.174 - phase is then the redevelopment of the building on Block 8. 01:04:40.066 --> 01:04:46.297 - From a grading and infrastructure standpoint, we're looking at a comprehensive stormwater design for 01:04:46.297 --> 01:04:52.713 - both parts in which the residential sections are handling more water quality and the commercial section 01:04:52.713 --> 01:04:58.883 - is handling more water quantity. And so there are not intended to be any changes to stormwater code 01:04:58.883 --> 01:05:05.052 - or standards within the PUD. These will meet typical city standards. Fire and trash collection will 01:05:05.052 --> 01:05:05.854 - occur at the 01:05:06.242 --> 01:05:12.429 - pink drop off points. The fire radius works within the lanes, which are classified as a custom street 01:05:12.429 --> 01:05:18.676 - type. Alley's are allowed under Bloomington code to be blocked for some amount of time by private use. 01:05:18.676 --> 01:05:24.923 - These are fire access routes and so they do need to remain clear. So they've been classified as lanes, 01:05:24.923 --> 01:05:31.231 - which is a custom street type. They are functioning 20 feet alleys that are intended to be rear service 01:05:31.231 --> 01:05:32.990 - kind of access to the homes. 01:05:34.082 --> 01:05:39.906 - So we've got a couple of custom street sections in here. The typical street section within the transportation 01:05:39.906 --> 01:05:45.413 - plan for Rogers is slightly too wide to work with the existing building. And so there's a custom street 01:05:45.413 --> 01:05:51.131 - section that has been vetted by engineering that's in there. First Street is intended to remain as existing 01:05:51.131 --> 01:05:56.531 - and has been recently improved. Jackson Street was temporarily in some of the early phases considered 01:05:56.531 --> 01:06:01.826 - more of a lane. It was not a main access. It doesn't connect all the way through. It is a dead end. 01:06:01.826 --> 01:06:03.838 - It's preferred by probably the future 01:06:04.034 --> 01:06:10.631 - public safety user of Block 8 to be lower traffic and so it is intended to be not quite as high traffic 01:06:10.631 --> 01:06:17.291 - as Fairview is and so it has a little bit narrower street section and a little bit more casual detailing 01:06:17.291 --> 01:06:23.697 - on that. Fairview Street is currently only 16 feet wide. It is being widened to a 48 foot wide right 01:06:23.697 --> 01:06:25.790 - of way with parking on one side. 01:06:27.650 --> 01:06:34.011 - Wiley is intended to remain as it is. It has a historic character that's continuous along Wiley. And 01:06:34.011 --> 01:06:40.561 - so it's intended to remain as is. And then you can see our lanes there, a 20 foot total width. And then 01:06:40.561 --> 01:06:47.048 - some examples of the units, size, scale. And then we've got units that we can run through if there are 01:06:47.048 --> 01:06:53.345 - questions. And then I believe that these are included in your packet as well. And they're organized 01:06:53.345 --> 01:06:57.502 - by sale price. I'm here for any questions that you guys may have. 01:06:58.114 --> 01:07:07.163 - Excellent. Thank you so much council members questions If you have any sorry councilmember Puma Smith 01:07:07.163 --> 01:07:16.212 - Normally we would have a presentation from planning staff. Is that not envisioned this evening? Mayor 01:07:16.212 --> 01:07:22.334 - Thompson or Director Hiddle, would would you like to add anything? I 01:07:32.130 --> 01:07:38.324 - Thank you Eric Grulick development services manager, so I'm happy, you know Ali kind of gave a great 01:07:38.324 --> 01:07:45.008 - overview of the project as a whole I can certainly go into some of the specific district ordinance standards 01:07:45.008 --> 01:07:51.140 - You know kind of the process that went through to how we got here So I'm kind of open to what would 01:07:51.140 --> 01:07:53.470 - be most beneficial to the council and 01:07:53.570 --> 01:08:02.076 - You know like second certainly steps through some of the specifics of the district ordinance if that's 01:08:02.076 --> 01:08:10.746 - something that would be beneficial Otherwise, you know the petitioner did a great job with the overview. 01:08:10.746 --> 01:08:19.087 - So I don't really have a lot to add That's not in the packet So with that, thank you council members 01:08:19.087 --> 01:08:22.142 - any questions Councilor Puma Smith I 01:08:24.386 --> 01:08:32.215 - My first question is why is the final plan approval being delegated to staff and not going back to the 01:08:32.215 --> 01:08:39.816 - Plan Commission? And given that this is the first condition of approval If we approve this when and 01:08:39.816 --> 01:08:47.646 - how will the public have a further opportunity to provide input as Details of this project really come 01:08:47.646 --> 01:08:50.078 - together Yep, great question so 01:08:50.146 --> 01:08:55.389 - You know one of the things that we're trying to do with this is look at ways that we can streamline 01:08:55.389 --> 01:09:00.737 - the overall process So the next public hearing for this will be the primary plat So that does have to 01:09:00.737 --> 01:09:06.189 - be heard by the Planning Commission or Platte committee certainly most likely that will be the Planning 01:09:06.189 --> 01:09:11.747 - Commission So they will hear the primary plat for this and they did delegate You know one of the requests 01:09:11.747 --> 01:09:17.252 - from the petitioner was to delegate final plan approval to staff so that was something that the Planning 01:09:17.252 --> 01:09:19.454 - Commission did go along with you know the 01:09:19.618 --> 01:09:24.552 - Items that we typically look at in terms of you know, should final plan be delegated to staff are you 01:09:24.552 --> 01:09:29.728 - know? What are the unresolved issues, you know? What are maybe the conditions of approval that had further 01:09:29.728 --> 01:09:34.856 - review that was necessary as part of that with this particular PUD, you know There aren't those elements, 01:09:34.856 --> 01:09:39.838 - you know, there aren't a lot of unknowns that we're still trying to figure out at this point You know, 01:09:39.838 --> 01:09:41.918 - there's not not a lot of things that would 01:09:41.986 --> 01:09:49.740 - You know necessarily a warrant a public hearing that would be changing from what's presented Tonight 01:09:49.740 --> 01:09:57.647 - or with the beauty as it stands right now So the next public hearing would be for the primary plat and 01:09:57.647 --> 01:10:05.785 - that would be at the planning commission Thank you Other questions Thank you, so I have several different 01:10:05.785 --> 01:10:09.854 - things that I want to pursue but for the first one I 01:10:11.330 --> 01:10:18.557 - I guess I'll preface by saying that one of the things that I've been trying to do all along in this 01:10:18.557 --> 01:10:26.073 - is align the picture with the words on the page in terms of what we're allowing in the PUD. So in terms 01:10:26.073 --> 01:10:33.372 - of the use table and in terms of, and this will be a question ultimately I promise, the petitioner's 01:10:33.372 --> 01:10:38.142 - statement, which among other things, and the presentation itself, 01:10:38.242 --> 01:10:45.865 - says that the PUD seeks to demonstrate smaller lots, context-based frontage, and simplified subdivision 01:10:45.865 --> 01:10:53.561 - processes can expand homeownership opportunities without compromising neighborhood form or environmental 01:10:53.561 --> 01:11:01.184 - performance. And the use table itself doesn't seem to align very well with that stated mission in terms 01:11:01.184 --> 01:11:06.974 - of allowing group living, which would kind of by definition need to be larger. 01:11:07.074 --> 01:11:13.829 - larger houses, larger properties in general, especially the way that group living ends up being defined. 01:11:13.829 --> 01:11:20.263 - Single-room occupancy, same kind of concept. Some of the community and cultural facilities that are 01:11:20.263 --> 01:11:26.696 - allowed are under conditional uses. Libraries, museums, that kind of thing. There's also no minimum 01:11:26.696 --> 01:11:30.942 - parking or anything like that, which also doesn't align well with 01:11:31.138 --> 01:11:38.533 - the community and cultural facilities, commercial uses, et cetera. So in light of terms of state law 01:11:38.533 --> 01:11:45.854 - not allowing us to amend the PUD and only allowing us to make reasonable conditions about it, would 01:11:45.854 --> 01:11:53.322 - the petitioner be open to a reasonable condition around aligning the use table with the actual stated 01:11:53.322 --> 01:11:55.006 - intent of the project? 01:12:00.674 --> 01:12:06.873 - One downside of not being in the room is Anna may want to speak to this as well, but I know one discussion 01:12:06.873 --> 01:12:11.102 - that we have had as we moved from planning commission into this meeting. 01:12:11.202 --> 01:12:17.404 - is that we had included all uses that are currently legally allowed within R4. The UDO goes to great 01:12:17.404 --> 01:12:23.667 - lengths to be really flexible about use. But because there are lots of uses allowed in R4, because we 01:12:23.667 --> 01:12:29.992 - had not previously suggested changing those to Plan Commission, we did not feel comfortable making any 01:12:29.992 --> 01:12:36.440 - edits to those in between Plan Commission and City Council as those were as requested in Plan Commission 01:12:36.440 --> 01:12:41.168 - converted into a use unit table. We are relatively neutral as to which uses, 01:12:41.168 --> 01:12:47.275 - This is obviously intended as a residential home ownership focus project, both maintaining flexibility 01:12:47.275 --> 01:12:53.264 - in the future is really high value, but there are certainly some uses allowed in R4 that we would be 01:12:53.264 --> 01:12:59.313 - very surprised if are ever desired in this zone or ever really practically used in this zone. So very 01:12:59.313 --> 01:13:05.301 - open to council recommendations and thoughts on any uses that as a condition of approval would wanna 01:13:05.301 --> 01:13:09.630 - be struck from that use unit table as it is, it's very broad, but it is, 01:13:09.730 --> 01:13:15.734 - R4s use unit table, which needed to be modified to add multifamily buildings. We have a couple of four 01:13:15.734 --> 01:13:21.622 - plexes and up to 12 plexes. So still very small multifamily buildings, but those would not have been 01:13:21.622 --> 01:13:27.567 - allowed under typical R4 uses. And so those are really the only changes. It's legalizing the building 01:13:27.567 --> 01:13:33.572 - types that you're seeing here within the planning areas. So if modifications to that are desired, that 01:13:33.572 --> 01:13:35.262 - is certainly up to the city. 01:13:36.482 --> 01:13:44.555 - Okay, thank you. Would Director Killian-Hanson like to add to that on behalf of the petitioner? Okay, 01:13:44.555 --> 01:13:53.183 - I see a shaking of the head back there. But it sounds like the essential answer was yes, that the petitioner 01:13:53.183 --> 01:14:00.702 - would consider that kind of condition. And I guess then the question kind of goes back to Mike 01:14:01.346 --> 01:14:08.125 - The question kind of goes back to my colleagues, whether that kind of condition would also be something 01:14:08.125 --> 01:14:15.229 - that they were interested in, because I'm certainly interested in pursuing that. Thank you. Other questions? 01:14:15.229 --> 01:14:22.138 - Councilmember Flaherty. Thank you. I think this was covered implicitly probably through the presentation, 01:14:22.138 --> 01:14:28.721 - but just to put a finer point on it for myself and for the public, why did the administration choose 01:14:28.721 --> 01:14:31.198 - to propose a planned unit development 01:14:31.362 --> 01:14:38.576 - for this block and a half instead of either using existing zoning districts from the UDO, there are 01:14:38.576 --> 01:14:45.790 - many, or if none of those districts was good enough considering the possibility of amending the UDO 01:14:45.790 --> 01:14:53.220 - such that we would have a district that would be good enough to satisfy the administration's interests 01:14:53.220 --> 01:14:54.302 - for this site. 01:14:55.394 --> 01:15:02.827 - So just asking yeah, but basically it's a strategy choice, right? So why PUD instead of either existing 01:15:02.827 --> 01:15:09.973 - zoning districts or zoning code changes to existing districts? Just looking to hear more. Thank you 01:15:09.973 --> 01:15:17.406 - In order to do the The changes that we needed in order to I mean essentially drive the house costs down 01:15:17.602 --> 01:15:26.510 - We would need not only changes to the UDO, but also changes to the transportation plan, which would 01:15:26.510 --> 01:15:35.418 - be onerous and would take a very long time. And so instead, we decided to proceed with PUD since we 01:15:35.418 --> 01:15:43.614 - are urgently in need of housing now. It is our intent to proceed as we have been discussing 01:15:43.778 --> 01:15:51.063 - with UDO changes in the future that that lead to this kind of attainable housing in the meantime, it 01:15:51.063 --> 01:15:58.347 - serves as a living model to the community of what this kind of land use can do Thank you if I follow 01:15:58.347 --> 01:16:05.560 - up just Would you or someone be on your staff be able to cover more specifically the transportation 01:16:05.560 --> 01:16:13.566 - plan amendments that would have been required to do what you all would like to do I'm just That's the question 01:16:13.698 --> 01:16:21.031 - Yeah, thanks. I can't remember the various transportation plan needed changes off the top of my head, 01:16:21.031 --> 01:16:28.436 - but they had to do with street wits and they were calling for, Ali, do you remember the changes? Yeah, 01:16:28.436 --> 01:16:35.696 - the lanes needed to be a custom street section type and a lot of the background, and there was a lot 01:16:35.696 --> 01:16:42.526 - of internal discussion about whether a PUD made sense or whether ordinance changes made sense, 01:16:42.594 --> 01:16:47.938 - Some of the background on this, too, is there was a known set of ordinance changes coming through. It 01:16:47.938 --> 01:16:53.176 - has been discussed really broadly. But that's on a different timeline than this project was. And so 01:16:53.176 --> 01:16:58.468 - part of the idea behind the PUD was that this was going to be an opportunity to test some things. In 01:16:58.468 --> 01:17:03.864 - the meantime, while that timeline for UDO changes remains the same during that intermittent time, some 01:17:03.864 --> 01:17:09.155 - of these things could be tested and then vetted before pulled out citywide. So some of these changes 01:17:09.155 --> 01:17:12.560 - did feel, I think, to city staff like they were going to be some 01:17:12.560 --> 01:17:18.643 - that they would want to test on a smaller scale and so the PUD gave an opportunity in this timeline 01:17:18.643 --> 01:17:24.909 - to test some of those ideas but the lanes needed to be made a custom street type. First Street as it's 01:17:24.909 --> 01:17:31.235 - currently built doesn't match the transportation plan exactly, neither does Wiley or Rogers and so each 01:17:31.235 --> 01:17:37.318 - one of those needed to be a custom street section which is not currently legally allowed within the 01:17:37.318 --> 01:17:40.542 - transportation plan unless you're doing a PUD and so 01:17:40.674 --> 01:17:48.436 - a general later recommendation might be building in a little bit more flexibility on existing streets 01:17:48.436 --> 01:17:56.121 - within the transportation plan. But this was an opportunity to test what would some of those changes 01:17:56.121 --> 01:18:03.731 - need to be to get there to streamline the process. But the custom street sections was a big part of 01:18:03.731 --> 01:18:09.438 - the final decision to move forward with a PUD. Thank you. Other questions? 01:18:09.826 --> 01:18:18.573 - Feel free to ask them all your questions if you'd like. Oh, I don't know if you want. I don't know if 01:18:18.573 --> 01:18:27.148 - you realize what you're asking there or offering. I have several. So looking at the common area and 01:18:27.148 --> 01:18:33.150 - walkways that bisect the development, who is going to maintain those? 01:18:34.722 --> 01:18:40.903 - There's an HOA that is part of the PUD documents as a commitment to an HOA that will perform all of 01:18:40.903 --> 01:18:47.639 - the common landscape maintenance. And the cost of the HOA has been incorporated in the housing affordability 01:18:47.639 --> 01:18:53.944 - metrics. And so all the housing affordability, the percent AMI calculations, those are all calculated 01:18:53.944 --> 01:19:00.557 - utilizing the understanding that there will be an HOA fee and then those fees are estimated within overall 01:19:00.557 --> 01:19:02.782 - affordability as well. Okay, great. 01:19:02.978 --> 01:19:11.491 - And you mentioned in your presentation that you're looking at how affordability will be guaranteed long 01:19:11.491 --> 01:19:19.923 - term. Can you speak a little bit more to that. And I guess my main question and maybe this is also for 01:19:19.923 --> 01:19:28.600 - city staff is how do we know that you can actually follow through with the commitments of more affordable 01:19:28.600 --> 01:19:30.974 - homeownership opportunities. 01:19:31.330 --> 01:19:38.888 - going into the future, not just the first owners. There are commitments within the PUD language itself. 01:19:38.888 --> 01:19:46.228 - So those are legally binding to the percentage of homes that are affordable specific AMI levels. And 01:19:46.228 --> 01:19:51.678 - so the PUD itself bakes those guarantees in both in terms of upfront sale, 01:19:51.810 --> 01:19:57.548 - affordability and long-term sale affordability. The exact mechanism of that is still in debate. Planned 01:19:57.548 --> 01:20:03.120 - commission had some really valid concerns that deed restrictions are specifically called out in some 01:20:03.120 --> 01:20:09.023 - places as a requirement of the method to provide that. That has in some jurisdictions caused some conflict 01:20:09.023 --> 01:20:14.595 - with the way appraisals work for mortgages, which can make the mortgage less attainable for somebody 01:20:14.595 --> 01:20:18.622 - purchasing an affordable home. There are some good calibrations that are 01:20:18.882 --> 01:20:26.443 - The thing that is still being worked through is those calibrations of the exact mechanism But the PUD 01:20:26.443 --> 01:20:34.078 - itself has a baked-in guarantee which is legally binding in terms of affordability Shall I go on I see 01:20:34.078 --> 01:20:41.935 - another hand so You have a follow-up go ahead go ahead Stasper I have a follow-up about the affordability 01:20:41.935 --> 01:20:45.790 - things that was kind of the second like grouping of 01:20:46.114 --> 01:20:52.591 - Stuff that I wanted to make sure to talk about tonight So, of course I guess there's there's like two 01:20:52.591 --> 01:20:59.132 - pieces of this question one is kind of what Councilmember Piedmont Smith just said in terms of how How 01:20:59.132 --> 01:21:05.546 - are you actually ensuring these are going to be affordable long-term? What's the mechanism and I and 01:21:05.546 --> 01:21:11.388 - I wonder if I'm interested in director Kelly and Hanson following up on this because as the 01:21:11.388 --> 01:21:15.198 - RDC Representative like I guess I'm just interested in that 01:21:15.298 --> 01:21:24.776 - that process and how the RDC is going to Ensure that in terms of the first time buyer and then subsequent 01:21:24.776 --> 01:21:29.694 - buyers because these need to be permanently affordable 01:21:31.714 --> 01:21:39.141 - Yes, we are agreeing to what is in our code at this time, despite there are some issues with it. So 01:21:39.141 --> 01:21:46.716 - I do just want to back up about affordability, because I do think that there are some things that are 01:21:46.716 --> 01:21:54.366 - maybe misunderstood and give kind of a 10,000 foot view, if you don't mind a few words. I cannot talk. 01:21:54.562 --> 01:22:00.387 - I'm sorry. Our current development code relies heavily on deed restrictions to create the affordability 01:22:00.387 --> 01:22:06.100 - and for sale housing. While that approach can work in rental housing, it often conflicts with the way 01:22:06.100 --> 01:22:11.813 - that homeownership is actually financed. Most homeowners rely on conventional mortgage that must meet 01:22:11.813 --> 01:22:14.782 - standards of the national secondary mortgage market. 01:22:14.882 --> 01:22:21.285 - Institutions like Fannie Mae Freddie Mac These mortgages require homes to have clear marketable title 01:22:21.285 --> 01:22:27.625 - and predictable resale rights when deed restrictions cap resale prices required government approvals 01:22:27.625 --> 01:22:34.404 - of buyers or restrict financing lenders can no longer guarantee that the mortgage will meet those standards 01:22:34.404 --> 01:22:39.614 - in Many cases they cannot issue the loan that leads to a simple but critical truth 01:22:40.034 --> 01:22:47.185 - A policy that makes homes technically affordable but impossible to finance does not create home ownership. 01:22:47.185 --> 01:22:48.254 - It prevents it. 01:22:48.546 --> 01:22:54.635 - If our goal is to help residents build wealth through ownership, we need tools that work within the 01:22:54.635 --> 01:23:00.846 - mortgage system, not against it. Cities across the country use approaches that maintain affordability 01:23:00.846 --> 01:23:07.117 - without undermining financing. Some of those mechanisms include silent second mortgages, a second loan 01:23:07.117 --> 01:23:13.328 - that fills the gap between what a household can afford and the cost of the home. We use it in many of 01:23:13.328 --> 01:23:16.190 - our programs currently, so it's not new to us. 01:23:16.258 --> 01:23:22.391 - It has no monthly payments and is repaid upon refinance allowing the city to recycle the subsidy There's 01:23:22.391 --> 01:23:28.350 - also shared equity agreements. The homeowner keeps the most appreciation while a portion returns back 01:23:28.350 --> 01:23:34.483 - to the city to support the next homebuyer So it's not exactly tied to each specific home though It could 01:23:34.483 --> 01:23:40.558 - be but it would be a rolling basis in could in some instances again We're working through a lot of this 01:23:40.558 --> 01:23:46.224 - process. There's also a right of first offer so what that means is that it allows the city or an 01:23:46.224 --> 01:23:53.648 - Nonprofit to preserve the affordability when needed without permanently restricting the deed. So these 01:23:53.648 --> 01:24:01.216 - tools are often used and they're refinanceable they're marketable and accessible to ordinary homebuyers, 01:24:01.216 --> 01:24:09.072 - but you know Fundamentally, I think that we need to talk about the fact that homeownership and affordability 01:24:09.072 --> 01:24:14.910 - is is essentially a supply and demand issue so we should not be focusing only on 01:24:15.042 --> 01:24:22.607 - One or two or six units we need to be talking about the entire market and what that implication is so 01:24:22.607 --> 01:24:30.469 - I'm happy to get into that a little bit more But you know, we need units of all types at all price points 01:24:30.469 --> 01:24:38.182 - It helps relieve pressure on the existing housing market But as far as structural ideas of how we might 01:24:38.182 --> 01:24:44.190 - achieve that silent seconds Shared equity models it could be a right of first or 01:24:44.386 --> 01:24:51.620 - Offer but again, we are committing to what our code says at this time The nice thing about the RDC owning 01:24:51.620 --> 01:24:58.855 - this is that we can control how these are sold who they're sold to what kind of units they are As opposed 01:24:58.855 --> 01:25:05.679 - to just turning it over to another developer So we're making that commitment the zoning approval is 01:25:05.679 --> 01:25:12.777 - not tied to the specific mechanism in which we are ensuring that Your follow-up go ahead Sure that that 01:25:12.777 --> 01:25:14.142 - totally answered my 01:25:14.914 --> 01:25:21.253 - the intent of my question was to actually learn more about how the RDC was doing that. But I'm just 01:25:21.253 --> 01:25:27.719 - going to take your last statement there. So essentially, the RDC is going to pick and choose who gets 01:25:27.719 --> 01:25:28.606 - to buy these. 01:25:30.178 --> 01:25:38.303 - We have a statutory offering process that we have to follow and so we will make the commitment to provide 01:25:38.303 --> 01:25:46.198 - the affordable units and they will be present in fact If you read the PUD language, you would see that 01:25:46.198 --> 01:25:53.940 - more than 50% are at 100% of the area median income where the PUD or the UDO currently only requires 01:25:53.940 --> 01:25:55.166 - 15% Right. Okay 01:25:55.842 --> 01:26:05.139 - So essentially, because you have that statutory requirement around how your offerings work, that's part 01:26:05.139 --> 01:26:14.257 - of ensuring this, because then your offerings can require buyers to check certain boxes. Correct. OK. 01:26:14.257 --> 01:26:23.644 - And then I guess my other follow-up around affordability was related more to the actual costs themselves 01:26:23.644 --> 01:26:25.342 - and this idea that 01:26:25.794 --> 01:26:33.225 - And I have read lots of constituent comments around this idea that they're being made affordable by 01:26:33.225 --> 01:26:41.326 - making them smaller. And I appreciate that one of the arguments here in general for this kind of development 01:26:41.326 --> 01:26:48.980 - is that family size has shrunk and our housing stock has not. And so a piece of affordability is size. 01:26:48.980 --> 01:26:53.662 - But I guess I just want to talk about that, like affordability 01:26:53.986 --> 01:27:00.079 - per square foot affordability in general and like I just kind of tried to like run these things through 01:27:00.079 --> 01:27:06.172 - mortgage Calculators a little bit and going like okay some of these things which seem really affordable 01:27:06.172 --> 01:27:12.440 - You know and and they would maybe have a decent mortgage payment at the end after somebody's saved $36,000 01:27:12.440 --> 01:27:15.838 - for their 20% down payment. So is is that a piece of your 01:27:15.938 --> 01:27:22.938 - Calculus in terms of how these offerings are going to go in terms of that down payment potentially assistance 01:27:22.938 --> 01:27:29.301 - that gets that mortgage payment ultimately to that Like AMI affordability range. Do you know what I 01:27:29.301 --> 01:27:36.301 - mean by that question? You'll connect me kind of I don't quite understand your question when we're committing 01:27:36.301 --> 01:27:42.728 - to a certain AMI we are committing to the income and the payments and you know looking at the entire 01:27:42.728 --> 01:27:44.382 - financial picture, but So 01:27:44.482 --> 01:27:51.709 - So like I guess I just want to know if that's like based on the sale price based on the estimated mortgage 01:27:51.709 --> 01:27:58.802 - payment How does how does the like a down payment fit into that because one of the other real struggles? 01:27:58.802 --> 01:28:05.556 - Especially for first-time homebuyers is saving that significant chunk of money in the beginning. So 01:28:05.556 --> 01:28:13.054 - the Just to be clear we're doing land use tonight and and we have committed to the affordability guidelines we 01:28:13.250 --> 01:28:20.895 - don't know which mechanism is gonna work best for our local lenders, but part of the next steps in the 01:28:20.895 --> 01:28:28.614 - process is to do a lender's workshop and to put lots of these pieces together. So maybe the reason that 01:28:28.614 --> 01:28:36.259 - you're not getting the answer that you want is because we haven't nailed down all of these things, but 01:28:36.259 --> 01:28:40.638 - the cost of the house will be tied to what the house costs 01:28:40.738 --> 01:28:49.976 - To build and of course down payment is is Associated with the cost of that house. We do have down payment 01:28:49.976 --> 01:28:58.691 - assistance programs within the city So all of these pieces are part of the housing puzzle Thank you 01:28:58.691 --> 01:29:02.526 - Allie did you want to jump in on that? Yeah 01:29:02.978 --> 01:29:09.287 - quick comments. I think the first one is the way that we calculated it. So federal standards on defining 01:29:09.287 --> 01:29:15.535 - AMI are going to say that you can't spend any more than 30% of your gross income monthly on all housing 01:29:15.535 --> 01:29:21.964 - costs. And so the AMI assumptions are both taking into account the mortgage payment and estimated property 01:29:21.964 --> 01:29:28.393 - taxes at current rates and estimated utility taxes at that square footage and things like the HOA payment. 01:29:28.393 --> 01:29:29.054 - And so the 01:29:29.314 --> 01:29:35.074 - stated percentage of AMI that they are affordable to is tied to that full cost of housing relative to, 01:29:35.074 --> 01:29:41.002 - yes, which does relate to the sale cost of the house. There are mortgage down payment assistance programs 01:29:41.002 --> 01:29:46.650 - that are being explored as part of this. And then the overall long-term affordability will relate to 01:29:46.650 --> 01:29:52.577 - what kind of a mortgage the buyer qualifies for. So if they qualify for an FHA mortgage or a VA mortgage, 01:29:52.577 --> 01:29:55.038 - their down payment might be as small as 3%, 01:29:55.138 --> 01:30:01.775 - We have for now estimated affordability based on a 20% down payment, which is a large, you know, an 01:30:01.775 --> 01:30:08.944 - average size payment for normal affordability in terms of, you know, market standard. But that is something 01:30:08.944 --> 01:30:14.718 - that will be calibrated as we work through the project. And then kind of a comment to, 01:30:14.818 --> 01:30:21.051 - questions a few minutes ago, it is also typical that we would have some sort of buyer qualification 01:30:21.051 --> 01:30:27.472 - for the formal affordable units. And so that process working through RDC is going to be really normal. 01:30:27.472 --> 01:30:33.705 - So that you don't end up with an affordable unit that's being purchased by somebody that makes 400% 01:30:33.705 --> 01:30:39.938 - AMI. Typically, those are a qualified home buyer, which is income-based for the affordable program. 01:30:39.938 --> 01:30:43.678 - That is normal within these kinds of situations. All right. 01:30:45.058 --> 01:30:54.979 - That's anybody on the left with questions. There's a motion in the public to move on I acknowledge it. 01:30:54.979 --> 01:31:04.996 - Thank you I Mean we're moving really fast for us to be clear Anybody on the left with questions, please 01:31:04.996 --> 01:31:12.798 - councilmember rough I'm just I mean, I'm not real good. I have no expertise at I 01:31:13.250 --> 01:31:23.648 - you know, finance, real estate financing. But I'm having trouble understanding, please help me, please 01:31:23.648 --> 01:31:34.147 - help me. Once a home is sold, what is gonna prevent those homes from then sort of latching or following 01:31:34.147 --> 01:31:42.526 - the rest of the real estate upward pressure in the community and then those houses 01:31:43.042 --> 01:31:52.787 - Becoming unaffordable down the road and if we have the income level restrictions Applied still in the 01:31:52.787 --> 01:32:02.628 - future, but we haven't capped the ability of those houses to increase in value Faster than area medium 01:32:02.628 --> 01:32:10.654 - income goes up Then it seems like we're gonna be losing them over time Yeah, and so 01:32:11.010 --> 01:32:17.712 - Are you done with your question? Yeah, that's kind of so that's why we need to get creative about the 01:32:17.712 --> 01:32:24.347 - way that we're structuring the the financing packages Because what the city has been doing is a deed 01:32:24.347 --> 01:32:31.115 - restriction That means that the home cannot be sold to somebody who's outside of this income level but 01:32:31.115 --> 01:32:37.882 - that also means that there are no conventional mortgages available to them and so Then they get locked 01:32:37.882 --> 01:32:40.510 - into that house. They can't sell it and 01:32:41.090 --> 01:32:50.134 - Can probably never buy it because we're not a mortgager And so instead if you look at a creative option, 01:32:50.134 --> 01:32:58.834 - so if if I bought a home and and I and The city has first right of offer We would also likely have a 01:32:58.834 --> 01:33:07.447 - shared equity agreement so if the market says that my Home is increased 20% in value We would share 01:33:07.447 --> 01:33:09.342 - that equity with that 01:33:09.506 --> 01:33:17.548 - owner and we may have a first right of offering which means we can come in and buy it and subsidize 01:33:17.548 --> 01:33:26.073 - with our equity the the next selling of that house and so in these ways you're not suppressing the market 01:33:26.073 --> 01:33:34.598 - you let the market do what the markets going to do but you still have homes that are available for people 01:33:34.598 --> 01:33:39.262 - at less cost okay thank you thank you any other questions 01:33:41.986 --> 01:33:47.370 - Councilmember Flaherty More questions a fair number. Thank you I'm also happy at any moment to consider 01:33:47.370 --> 01:33:52.598 - postponement to our next regular session because I think there may be reasonable conditions involved 01:33:52.598 --> 01:33:57.826 - in what comes next and lots of questions and we have another item that many people in the public are 01:33:57.826 --> 01:34:03.262 - here for So at any point if the president would like to entertain that or someone wants to make a motion 01:34:03.262 --> 01:34:05.022 - I just wanted to say that I guess 01:34:05.858 --> 01:34:13.619 - One question is about our climate action plan that calls for establishing policies or ordinances supporting 01:34:13.619 --> 01:34:21.309 - all electric buildings. It's basically the only climate goal, Bloomington climate goal compatible building 01:34:21.309 --> 01:34:28.496 - style. So I didn't see that in the district standards, but is there or would there be a requirement 01:34:28.496 --> 01:34:33.598 - for all electric buildings? That's it, that's the question. Thank you. 01:34:37.602 --> 01:34:43.509 - I don't know that we have discussed that but it's very easy to do electric in residential And it was 01:34:43.509 --> 01:34:49.417 - brought up during design and calibration of the street sections that that was an expectation that we 01:34:49.417 --> 01:34:55.441 - would likely see that we likely did not need to accommodate gas lines within The lane structure as the 01:34:55.441 --> 01:35:01.465 - city was not anticipating that that would be needed if this was an all-electric neighborhood So it has 01:35:01.465 --> 01:35:06.846 - it has been discussed and there is an anticipation that that is likely a coming code change 01:35:08.034 --> 01:35:17.326 - With the petitioners support a reasonable condition to that effect to make it part of the district standards 01:35:17.326 --> 01:35:26.021 - Yes, thank you Councilmember daily Public comment, please There's a motion in the second all those in 01:35:26.021 --> 01:35:33.182 - favor of moving to public comment say aye aye anyone opposed no anyone abstaining I 01:35:33.666 --> 01:35:40.546 - That motion carries 8-1. We'll now move to a time of public comment. We've minimized this to 30 minutes. 01:35:40.546 --> 01:35:47.426 - Again, that can be extended. What I ask you to do, because there's quite a few people wanting to comment 01:35:47.426 --> 01:35:54.110 - on this, there's a sign-in sheet there so that we save some time. Sign in and then pass it on so that 01:35:54.110 --> 01:36:00.990 - people behind you can comment. I also just general timekeeping, because it's only 30 minutes and there's 01:36:01.122 --> 01:36:07.752 - so many of you and you have three minutes to comment, that's 10 comments. So if you're gonna say something 01:36:07.752 --> 01:36:14.196 - that somebody in front of you said, yield the time so that we can hear from as many people as possible. 01:36:14.196 --> 01:36:16.798 - All right, first commenter, take it away. 01:36:17.154 --> 01:36:23.870 - Thank you. My name is Erin Reynolds and Island. I'm the housing solutions director with heading home 01:36:23.870 --> 01:36:30.652 - of South Central Indiana. I like some of us are not real estate experts but I do work with within the 01:36:30.652 --> 01:36:37.634 - homeless response system and affordable housing is a lot of what we talk about in our field. So I wanted 01:36:37.634 --> 01:36:44.283 - to thank you for the opportunity. I'm excited to see that the city is taking a step in rezoning and 01:36:44.283 --> 01:36:45.214 - just you know 01:36:45.378 --> 01:36:54.129 - in the right direction when it comes to affordable housing. So centering kind of who is all impacted 01:36:54.129 --> 01:37:02.880 - by this choice and everything is our community. In addition to the system improvement work I do with 01:37:02.880 --> 01:37:11.630 - my team in our region's homeless response system, I also supervise six street outreach case managers 01:37:11.630 --> 01:37:12.670 - who work in 01:37:12.802 --> 01:37:17.724 - Or with the unsheltered population and three case managers who work with individuals and families to 01:37:17.724 --> 01:37:22.987 - divert them from homelessness So whether my staff are in the streets and camps doing outreach or preventing 01:37:22.987 --> 01:37:28.298 - people from becoming own house My case managers run into the same problem, which is affordability forgetting 01:37:28.298 --> 01:37:32.830 - from getting people to from the streets to a home We're struggling to find places that don't 01:37:32.962 --> 01:37:39.247 - Require three times the income or income. That's three times the rent and for people struggling to maintain 01:37:39.247 --> 01:37:45.300 - their housing We're seeing how deeply cost burden they are and how deeply or how thinly they are spread 01:37:45.300 --> 01:37:51.353 - just trying to stay afloat So I wanted to take a moment to discuss the importance of affordable housing 01:37:51.353 --> 01:37:57.696 - and impacts it has on the broader community because the decisions that you guys are making and the questions 01:37:57.696 --> 01:37:59.966 - you're asking are really important and 01:38:00.130 --> 01:38:06.398 - Affordable housing is just super necessity. So whether it's intended to be owner or renter occupied 01:38:06.398 --> 01:38:12.102 - it makes a difference Housing costs are the primary driver of homelessness and hopeful has 01:38:12.102 --> 01:38:18.433 - a great opportunity to make an impact in our field When housing is affordable people are less likely 01:38:18.433 --> 01:38:24.701 - likely to become homeless and when they do they have a greater chance to rapidly be rehoused in our 01:38:24.701 --> 01:38:27.710 - community single adults in our region region 10 01:38:28.066 --> 01:38:33.291 - took them an average of 169 days to find housing again. When housing is affordable, people can better 01:38:33.291 --> 01:38:38.619 - manage their other expenses. They can take care of things like childcare, healthcare, and food. They're 01:38:38.619 --> 01:38:43.741 - less likely to spiral deeper into poverty and can work to attain broader goals than just surviving. 01:38:43.741 --> 01:38:49.120 - When we succeed in preventing someone's homelessness, we celebrate for the moment, but you know, they're 01:38:49.120 --> 01:38:54.448 - not out of the woods and we have to really take that into consideration. So, unaffordable housing means 01:38:54.448 --> 01:38:56.958 - our neighbors will always be trying to catch up. 01:38:57.442 --> 01:39:03.816 - And lastly when affordable or when housing is affordable people have a higher likelihood of breaking 01:39:03.816 --> 01:39:10.253 - out of generational poverty through living in mixed incomes neighbor mixed income neighborhoods Where 01:39:10.253 --> 01:39:16.816 - they have the opportunity for economic mobility and stability? Our case managers are struggling to find 01:39:16.816 --> 01:39:23.190 - affordable family style houses and families are having to result to using smaller bedrooms and Being 01:39:23.190 --> 01:39:24.894 - in resulting in areas like 01:39:25.442 --> 01:39:32.589 - Living in areas where they're not and that's your time feeling sorry. Thank you. Thank you for taking 01:39:32.589 --> 01:39:40.297 - the consideration Hi, thank you for offering public comment, I'm Anna green longtime resident of Bloomington. 01:39:40.297 --> 01:39:46.814 - I'm very interested in the housing I want to applaud the city for partnering with nationally 01:39:46.946 --> 01:39:52.823 - Known and recognized organizations who have been having success with incremental development I think 01:39:52.823 --> 01:39:58.700 - that's the thing that I'm most excited about is that These organizations that the city is partnering 01:39:58.700 --> 01:40:05.100 - with they're further down the road than we are and so they've they've already Sort of given us an opportunity 01:40:05.100 --> 01:40:08.766 - to look ahead and maybe avoid some pitfalls that we might have 01:40:08.866 --> 01:40:18.145 - Otherwise find ourselves in my specific interest in this is that I am one of the properties who might 01:40:18.145 --> 01:40:23.422 - benefit from the city kind of losing a fear of more dense 01:40:23.618 --> 01:40:30.548 - housing of more dense development downtown. So I have nearly one acre of property in Grandview Hills 01:40:30.548 --> 01:40:37.684 - neighborhood on the east side, walking distance to the mall, on a bus line, walking distance to campus. 01:40:37.684 --> 01:40:44.614 - I am an empty nester with a four bedroom, two and a half bath house that I cannot afford to downsize 01:40:44.614 --> 01:40:51.544 - from. So what would be great is if I could turn it into a quad, sell three units, and keep my own. I 01:40:51.544 --> 01:40:53.534 - have been talking, I've been 01:40:54.018 --> 01:41:01.822 - I've been picking the brains of David Hittle and his staff. I've been picking the brains of folks at 01:41:01.822 --> 01:41:09.625 - Habitat for Humanity. I've talked to Hopi. I really feel like at my property in particular, it won't 01:41:09.625 --> 01:41:17.352 - change that much from the street side. Most of my property backs up to the railroad tracks and to a 01:41:17.352 --> 01:41:22.142 - commercial residential, meadow woods, senior living facility. 01:41:22.274 --> 01:41:29.799 - I think Hopewell is super exciting because here is this enormous property to be developed with intention, 01:41:29.799 --> 01:41:37.039 - with support from national organizations who have been experimenting and succeeding. And if we can do 01:41:37.039 --> 01:41:44.422 - that and kind of give ourselves an opportunity to reduce the fear about this kind of development, which 01:41:44.422 --> 01:41:51.166 - let's not kid ourselves, this is absolutely urgent and critical to have more dense development 01:41:51.394 --> 01:41:57.929 - Sprawling is not working housing is a critical urgent need right now. So I will contribute three more 01:41:57.929 --> 01:42:04.528 - units To the city of Bloomington three more affordable units if this kind of zoning is allowed to move 01:42:04.528 --> 01:42:11.062 - forward Thank you. Thank you Take it away Good evening, Chris Smith. I'm here in support of Hopewell, 01:42:11.062 --> 01:42:18.366 - but I want to tell you a little story I bought a lot in Kirkwood in 2021 from my wife and I's retirement home and 01:42:18.818 --> 01:42:23.629 - We started permitting in 2022. It took us a year and thirty thousand dollars to get a permit 01:42:23.629 --> 01:42:29.009 - for a single-family house We're zoned MN. There's a historic overlay plus the Kirkwood overlay. There's 01:42:29.009 --> 01:42:34.233 - neighborhood board approval historic preservation coa Then we wanted to change our wrap on our house 01:42:34.233 --> 01:42:39.561 - from a manufactured stone to a limestone had to modified my coa and had to bring a sample of limestone 01:42:39.561 --> 01:42:40.958 - and to get it approved and 01:42:41.442 --> 01:42:45.929 - Which shocked me because I thought limestone was limestone We had to have multiple right away permits 01:42:45.929 --> 01:42:50.416 - excavation right away Kirkwood right away Jackson Street right away Retaining wall permits every time 01:42:50.416 --> 01:42:54.947 - we poured concrete. I had to get a street closure permit But it had to be an exact day in time and had 01:42:54.947 --> 01:42:59.347 - to give them two weeks notice So I put in a request for five closings over two months and they said 01:42:59.347 --> 01:43:02.910 - no you have to be this exact so we just started pouring early in the morning and 01:43:04.034 --> 01:43:09.481 - I had to do a driveway bond a homeowner sign off a sewer and water application hook-on fee plus a letter 01:43:09.481 --> 01:43:14.825 - from CBO given to you guys saying they're the sewer provider which was shocking a perpetual pedestrian 01:43:14.825 --> 01:43:20.220 - easement a six-foot sidewalk I'm in a historic district. I tried to get a variance from a sidewalk down 01:43:20.220 --> 01:43:25.460 - Jackson Street was an 18-foot unimproved road I got denied the variance and told at the meeting. Oh, 01:43:25.460 --> 01:43:30.648 - by the way, it's six foot So I poured it and the next day I called planning and said I can't put my 01:43:30.648 --> 01:43:31.582 - street trees in I 01:43:32.066 --> 01:43:37.126 - So concrete in our neighborhood is obviously more important than street trees, and I really wanted street 01:43:37.126 --> 01:43:41.947 - trees. I got a grass violation notice during construction, because I forgot to weed it around a stop 01:43:41.947 --> 01:43:46.769 - sign. I got a erosion control violation when there wasn't erosion off-site. I got called in on it. I 01:43:46.769 --> 01:43:51.877 - had to hire an architect, have multiple meetings. I had to have a street tree plan, even though I couldn't 01:43:51.877 --> 01:43:56.841 - plan them. I had to have a site plan. And finally, I got a building permit. It took a year and $30,000. 01:43:56.841 --> 01:44:01.758 - We need this, specifically so you can have pre-approved plans so people don't have to go through that. 01:44:01.858 --> 01:44:08.508 - We had the ability to pull it off. I'm a civil engineer, I've been on the planning staff here, the planning 01:44:08.508 --> 01:44:14.789 - commission here off and on for the last 15 years and it was still that hard. Please make this easier. 01:44:14.789 --> 01:44:21.193 - And modifications that you aren't gonna do it. It needs to be thrown out and redone as form-based code. 01:44:21.193 --> 01:44:27.351 - Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Michael Ginda. I am here to speak about Hopewell. In 01:44:27.351 --> 01:44:31.230 - terms of affordability and from the perspective of a workforce 01:44:31.618 --> 01:44:38.004 - I'm a member of the workforce. I work at IU. I've been here for I think 12 years now. I came as a student, 01:44:38.004 --> 01:44:44.210 - so I've been through a lot of the housing issues that are being discussed today. One of the things I've 01:44:44.210 --> 01:44:50.297 - been most concerned about with the Flintlock proposal in the PUD is the fact that the model is really 01:44:50.297 --> 01:44:56.265 - tied to sort of this model buyer. You have to have 20% down in the proposal, which cuts out sort of 01:44:56.265 --> 01:45:01.278 - costs like PMI. And I know that the representative from Flintlock said HOA fees are 01:45:01.506 --> 01:45:07.463 - are being considered in the affordability equation, but when you look at the actual model, I think it's 01:45:07.463 --> 01:45:13.192 - page 183, it's actually all zeroed out. So I believe it's because they don't really know what those 01:45:13.192 --> 01:45:19.206 - costs are gonna be. There's not really a framework for what that HOA would actually be. And particularly 01:45:19.206 --> 01:45:25.049 - the condominium units within the Faulkner design and the trillium units and things like that, they're 01:45:25.049 --> 01:45:29.918 - going to have to require shared maintenance and governance for those types of units, 01:45:30.146 --> 01:45:35.652 - Would make me believe that the condos in the Faulkner are actually going to be end up being apartments 01:45:35.652 --> 01:45:40.997 - Or other units that are not going to be actually affordable even though they fall within the income 01:45:40.997 --> 01:45:46.503 - guidelines I think there's a idea that you're going to have first-time homebuyers like myself with 20% 01:45:46.503 --> 01:45:51.902 - down immediately without significant assistance from the hand programs which are really generous and 01:45:52.098 --> 01:45:58.570 - But I think the terms of the other prospect of this is that equity sharing really is a sort of secondary 01:45:58.570 --> 01:46:04.733 - tax on the person who needs assistance and is asking for help for buying. I'm not saying it's a bad 01:46:04.733 --> 01:46:11.020 - model, but I think the conditions on affordability, being hinging on those programs, really speaks to 01:46:11.020 --> 01:46:17.183 - sort of the idea of attainability rather than affordability. And I don't believe that the mortgages 01:46:17.183 --> 01:46:21.374 - as outlined here for relative to space, it's cheaper for me to rent 01:46:21.794 --> 01:46:28.300 - when I've looked at the numbers for myself. I'd save about $33,000 over seven years by when I run the 01:46:28.300 --> 01:46:35.126 - numbers and run my calculations through the Fannie and Freddie savings, renting versus buying calculators. 01:46:35.126 --> 01:46:41.696 - So I would really would like to also then point out that we need to have a way to evaluate the success 01:46:41.696 --> 01:46:48.202 - of this pilot. I work in research, I do model evaluation. This is an overfit model for affordability. 01:46:48.202 --> 01:46:51.774 - And so I would like to challenge the council to provide 01:46:51.970 --> 01:46:58.243 - or means for independent evaluation of the success of affordability for workforce housing, 01:46:58.243 --> 01:47:05.137 - for ADA compliance, for other people that are going to be potentially buying into this development. 01:47:05.137 --> 01:47:06.654 - Thank you. Thank you. 01:47:08.962 --> 01:47:14.322 - Good evening City Council. My name is Markay Winston and I'm here tonight to express my support for 01:47:14.322 --> 01:47:20.005 - community efforts that expand access to safe affordable and high quality housing for families and members 01:47:20.005 --> 01:47:25.472 - of our local workforce including educators and School employees who meet the needs of our community's 01:47:25.472 --> 01:47:30.940 - children each and every day as superintendent of the Monroe County Community School Corporation I see 01:47:30.940 --> 01:47:35.550 - firsthand how housing stability and affordability directly impact student success and 01:47:36.258 --> 01:47:42.180 - Housing affordability also plays a vital role in our ability to attract and retain talented school employees. 01:47:42.180 --> 01:47:47.563 - Teachers, instructional assistants, bus drivers, custodians, and support staff are essential to the 01:47:47.563 --> 01:47:53.484 - success of our schools and ultimately to our children. I wholeheartedly support efforts to enhance affordable 01:47:53.484 --> 01:47:58.975 - housing opportunities in our beloved community. What our city is building is not just a neighborhood. 01:47:58.975 --> 01:48:04.574 - It is a vital part of the package that makes Bloomington a place where families want to put down roots. 01:48:05.314 --> 01:48:12.079 - Public schools are both a reflection of and a contributor to the health of a community. Strong housing 01:48:12.079 --> 01:48:18.779 - opportunities help stabilize enrollment. Affordable housing is a school issue. One way in which it is 01:48:18.779 --> 01:48:25.741 - a school issue is in determining what level of mortgage a first year or early career teacher can actually 01:48:25.741 --> 01:48:27.646 - afford within our community. 01:48:28.770 --> 01:48:34.863 - MCCSE offers the most competitive starting teacher salaries in Indiana were actually number two out 01:48:34.863 --> 01:48:41.079 - of approximately 290 school corporations Yet we have lost many talented candidates because they could 01:48:41.079 --> 01:48:47.233 - not find housing that they could afford within our community Every one of those losses is a loss for 01:48:47.233 --> 01:48:53.448 - our students Increasing housing options in our community with a mix of housing types and price points 01:48:53.448 --> 01:48:57.470 - will be attractive to future educators who want to join MCCSE and 01:48:58.274 --> 01:49:04.460 - The connection, it runs deeper than simply hiring. When families can afford to live in Bloomington, 01:49:04.460 --> 01:49:10.707 - they enroll their children in our schools. As a public school corporation, the state funding that we 01:49:10.707 --> 01:49:16.955 - receive that supports instruction is based on the number of students that we serve. Every new family 01:49:16.955 --> 01:49:23.326 - that enrolls directly strengthens our classrooms. Student enrollment growth is critical to our future. 01:49:23.842 --> 01:49:30.291 - Affordable housing is exactly the kind of investment that supports great schools The families we welcome 01:49:30.291 --> 01:49:36.863 - to our community will diversify our workforce fill our classrooms and strengthen our education Our schools 01:49:36.863 --> 01:49:43.127 - and our housing are not separate investments. There are two critical pieces of Bloomington's economic 01:49:43.127 --> 01:49:49.822 - future I believe diverse housing options and a robust education system together can attract new families and 01:49:52.962 --> 01:49:59.076 - We have welcoming neighborhoods paired with schools rich in musical, visual, and performing arts, STEAM 01:49:59.076 --> 01:50:05.425 - programs, numerous college and career pathway opportunities, early learning, and a wide variety of academic 01:50:05.425 --> 01:50:11.363 - and extracurricular programs. Safe and attainable housing, strong schools, and economic vitality are 01:50:11.363 --> 01:50:16.830 - deeply interconnected. And the music starts playing. That's your time. Thank you. Thank you. 01:50:18.818 --> 01:50:27.303 - I'm Paul ash the McDowell Gardens Neighborhood Association did meet finally and We did discuss this 01:50:27.303 --> 01:50:35.958 - plan unit development and while we have reservations about overflow parking and congestion in general 01:50:35.958 --> 01:50:44.614 - We already have that now we we have a more compact urban form and we're quite dense and this is a bit 01:50:44.614 --> 01:50:47.838 - denser, but we have our minds open to 01:50:47.970 --> 01:50:56.154 - these innovations. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead. Good evening, council. My name is Eric Spoonmore. 01:50:56.154 --> 01:51:05.068 - I serve as president and CEO of the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. I'm here tonight to respectfully 01:51:05.068 --> 01:51:13.982 - urge you to unanimously approve the Hopewell PUD. This vote is about more than a single development proposal. 01:51:14.818 --> 01:51:22.703 - It's about whether we are ready to move from debate to action on the most pressing issue facing Bloomington, 01:51:22.703 --> 01:51:29.937 - which is housing. For too long, our community has been caught in procedural back and forth over the 01:51:29.937 --> 01:51:37.606 - Hopewell site. Meanwhile, housing costs continue to rise. Young professionals struggle to find attainable 01:51:37.606 --> 01:51:44.478 - options. Families are stretched thin. Employers, both small businesses and major institutions, 01:51:45.186 --> 01:51:51.656 - are competing for talent in an environment where the availability and affordability of housing often 01:51:51.656 --> 01:51:58.511 - determines whether someone can say yes or no to a job in Bloomington. From the perspective of the business 01:51:58.511 --> 01:52:04.981 - community, the housing shortage is not abstract. It directly affects workforce recruitment, employee 01:52:04.981 --> 01:52:11.388 - retention, and whether entrepreneurs choose to start and grow their businesses here. Ultimately, it 01:52:11.388 --> 01:52:13.950 - affects the long-term economic vitality 01:52:14.690 --> 01:52:20.675 - of our city. Hopewell also represents something important from a development standpoint. For years, 01:52:20.675 --> 01:52:26.840 - our members have told us that Bloomington's unified development ordinance can be difficult for smaller 01:52:26.840 --> 01:52:33.185 - local builders to navigate because of its long, complex, and uncertainty associated with it. The Hopewell 01:52:33.185 --> 01:52:38.692 - framework moves key decisions to the front end, creating clearer development parameters and 01:52:38.692 --> 01:52:44.318 - a more predictable path forward. That matters because it opens the door for local developers. 01:52:44.482 --> 01:52:50.966 - not just large national firms to help build this neighborhood and invest in Bloomington's future. It 01:52:50.966 --> 01:52:58.028 - also offers a model as you continue conversations about meaningful UDO reform, which we very much appreciate. 01:52:58.028 --> 01:53:04.704 - No single project will solve our housing challenges, but Hopewell is a meaningful step forward. It adds 01:53:04.704 --> 01:53:11.509 - needed supply in a strategic location and signals that Bloomington is serious about creating more housing 01:53:11.509 --> 01:53:14.462 - options for people at different income levels 01:53:14.754 --> 01:53:23.099 - in life stages. A unanimous vote tonight would send a powerful message that our elected officials recognize 01:53:23.099 --> 01:53:31.057 - the urgency of this moment and are prepared to work together to address it. The voters in the business 01:53:31.057 --> 01:53:38.938 - community are ready to see progress, collaboration, and action from you all. On behalf of the chamber 01:53:38.938 --> 01:53:43.806 - and our members, I respectfully ask for your unanimous support 01:53:44.226 --> 01:53:52.766 - Hope well PUD. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry if I can just make a brief interruption I just want to make a 01:53:52.994 --> 01:53:58.363 - Blanket comment to all of the commentaries to please remember if you are willing and able to sign in 01:53:58.363 --> 01:54:03.678 - the reason why this Why we ask this is because the clerk's office does record your name and whether 01:54:03.678 --> 01:54:09.047 - or not you support a legislation So it's another way to make sure that your voice is included in the 01:54:09.047 --> 01:54:14.415 - record as well It's not a requirement But we appreciate if you do it make sure that we have you done 01:54:14.415 --> 01:54:19.890 - correctly and your name is spelled correctly as well Thank you so much clerk Williamson Members of the 01:54:19.890 --> 01:54:22.814 - City Council Thank you for lending us your ear tonight 01:54:23.298 --> 01:54:30.857 - My name is Don Weiler. I'm a long-time Bloomington resident. And for context, my home is adjacent to 01:54:30.857 --> 01:54:38.941 - Hopewell on 2nd Street. It's hard to get unanimous agreement on any one thing these days. I think, however, 01:54:38.941 --> 01:54:46.650 - you would be hard pressed to find anybody that says that I really don't want housing to be affordable. 01:54:46.650 --> 01:54:52.862 - For years, Bloomington has said that we want the folks who work in our restaurants 01:54:53.026 --> 01:55:00.440 - and our shops and our hotels, our teachers, our firefighters, our nurses, to be able to live in the 01:55:00.440 --> 01:55:08.003 - city that they serve. Every day, they contribute to the life and energy of Bloomington, and yet, many 01:55:08.003 --> 01:55:15.491 - of them cannot afford to live in the community where they spend their working days. They commute in, 01:55:15.491 --> 01:55:19.198 - they serve our city, and then they have to leave. 01:55:19.330 --> 01:55:27.914 - because housing inside the city simply isn't within reach. There's many factors that influence the cost 01:55:27.914 --> 01:55:36.333 - of housing that we can't control locally. Interest rates, the price of materials, national economics. 01:55:36.333 --> 01:55:45.247 - But there are things we can control. Our UDO and our permitting processes significantly affect how possible 01:55:45.247 --> 01:55:47.806 - it is to build in Bloomington. 01:55:48.770 --> 01:55:56.277 - I'm thankful for the recognition by Mr. Hiddle and the Planning Department to recognize this and for 01:55:56.277 --> 01:56:03.933 - the efforts that they're taking to address this on a longer time frame. The Hopewell PUD is important, 01:56:03.933 --> 01:56:11.440 - not only because it adds housing in a walkable part of our city, but because it serves as a proof of 01:56:11.440 --> 01:56:17.758 - concept. It demonstrates the thoughtful and deliberate flexibility that is necessary 01:56:18.370 --> 01:56:27.979 - if we truly want to create more attainable housing within the city limits. This PUD is not perfect. 01:56:27.979 --> 01:56:37.973 - Mistakes will be made, and critics will have plenty to point at. But perfection is not the goal. Action 01:56:37.973 --> 01:56:47.486 - is the goal. Just as Julia Child didn't perfect Beef Wellington on her first try, first time ever, 01:56:48.770 --> 01:56:56.446 - The ideas in this PUD will improve with each iteration. Bloomington is strongest when people from every 01:56:56.446 --> 01:57:04.270 - walk of life can live here, work here, and participate in our community. Tonight, you have an opportunity 01:57:04.270 --> 01:57:12.020 - to demonstrate your commitment to that future. I respectfully encourage you to unanimously move Hopewell 01:57:12.020 --> 01:57:15.710 - and Bloomington forward. Thank you for listening. 01:57:20.322 --> 01:57:27.314 - My name is Matt Gleason. I'd like to say that Hopewell South overall looks good. It seems to be a large 01:57:27.314 --> 01:57:34.037 - improvement over the TRO overlay district that's currently on the map has a number of problems. The 01:57:34.037 --> 01:57:40.827 - details are very well considered from multiple perspectives and they match a lot of housing policies 01:57:40.827 --> 01:57:47.617 - that have worked in other similar cities to us. I want to say that there is kind of a large focus on 01:57:47.617 --> 01:57:48.894 - ownership in this. 01:57:49.378 --> 01:57:56.294 - Hopefully the next plats that are done after this maybe provide for renters a little more We've seen 01:57:56.294 --> 01:58:03.347 - multiple housing booms and busts in my lifetime. So it isn't the be-all-end-all I appreciate that this 01:58:03.347 --> 01:58:10.469 - PUD can be a model for future you do changes But I also hope that people don't kind of rest any similar 01:58:10.469 --> 01:58:17.453 - changes in the you do on this in terms of its success or speed something I'd like to ask City Council 01:58:17.453 --> 01:58:18.686 - and the admin and 01:58:19.074 --> 01:58:26.147 - Consider for future PUDs Especially in the hopeful area would be social or public housing that can provide 01:58:26.147 --> 01:58:32.824 - for the essential workers of the town And give them a you know a good quality of life in a home They 01:58:32.824 --> 01:58:39.038 - can afford and that also checks market rates by virtue of being a cheaper alternative. Thanks 01:58:44.194 --> 01:58:50.567 - Good evening, everybody. My name is Nathan Ferrer. I'm the executive director of the Housing Authority 01:58:50.567 --> 01:58:57.374 - and our nonprofit affiliate Summit Hill Community Development Corporation Representing a nonprofit affordable 01:58:57.374 --> 01:59:03.623 - housing developer. I strongly support the Hopewell planned unit development This innovative approach 01:59:03.623 --> 01:59:09.873 - includes many of the strategies that we've been pushing for years that includes mixed income smaller 01:59:09.873 --> 01:59:11.358 - lots pre-approved plans 01:59:11.458 --> 01:59:17.881 - varied housing types reduce setbacks roads that prioritize people over cars and as well as permanent 01:59:17.881 --> 01:59:24.813 - affordability These lead to reduced infrastructure and construction costs, which means greater affordability 01:59:24.813 --> 01:59:31.172 - Long-term these will mean an increased tax base and more efficient community service of this land I 01:59:31.172 --> 01:59:37.150 - agree that the PUD may have been misused in the past and that it should be used sparingly and 01:59:37.922 --> 01:59:45.431 - But this development reflects exactly why the PUD mechanism was created to allow for thoughtful, innovative 01:59:45.431 --> 01:59:52.384 - community design. We at Summit Hill CDC are already working on another remarkably similar plan that 01:59:52.384 --> 01:59:59.615 - we hope to roll out by the end of this year. Part of my request is that you help pave the path for that 01:59:59.615 --> 02:00:01.214 - by approving this PUD. 02:00:02.402 --> 02:00:08.920 - We all understand that Bloomington faces a housing crisis and there's growing alignment within our community 02:00:08.920 --> 02:00:15.378 - About what needs to happen to address that? The hopeful South beauty is a large step in the right direction 02:00:15.378 --> 02:00:21.597 - I ask that you treat this request with the urgency that it deserves and hold a vote tonight Don't delay 02:00:21.597 --> 02:00:24.766 - any longer And thank you for your service. Thank you 02:00:27.586 --> 02:00:34.570 - This time just to make sure that everyone gets included. We have about five minutes left to public comment 02:00:34.570 --> 02:00:41.097 - I would like to move at this time that we extend public comment by 15 minutes There's a motion in a 02:00:41.097 --> 02:00:47.754 - second all those in favor signal by saying aye aye anyone opposed All right, that carries. We have 15 02:00:47.754 --> 02:00:53.694 - more minutes and note that there's also people online. So, you know Take it away. Mr. Zodi 02:01:10.274 --> 02:01:17.020 - council for consideration of the PUD for typical south. Oakwell is one of the most exciting transformational 02:01:17.020 --> 02:01:23.581 - projects our community has ever seen, if not the most. Since its inception, there have been common goals, 02:01:23.581 --> 02:01:29.956 - a forefront driven by the original master plan that many of us contributed to and talked about and had 02:01:29.956 --> 02:01:36.702 - a lot of community input. These goals include maximizing the housing yield and a wide range of price points, 02:01:37.250 --> 02:01:43.953 - options for rental housing and the ownership of the range of housing types. Making sure this new neighborhood 02:01:43.953 --> 02:01:50.107 - remains aligned with the unique character of Wilmington and the neighborhoods around the site. And I 02:01:50.107 --> 02:01:56.505 - was glad to hear from Mr. Ash earlier and get to know him. In order to do all of this, the consideration 02:01:56.505 --> 02:02:03.147 - of PDD to maximize the capacity of the housing is critical. As someone who served in the last administration 02:02:03.147 --> 02:02:05.950 - and worked intimately on the overall project, 02:02:06.562 --> 02:02:12.889 - My major question and consideration along the way was always about the number of housing units that 02:02:12.889 --> 02:02:19.343 - are possible on the site, and especially with these six acres. I remember being in staff meetings and 02:02:19.343 --> 02:02:25.797 - people sketching out how many houses could be fit on these six acres. What can we do with the current 02:02:25.797 --> 02:02:32.187 - zoning laws? And to see this idea and this concept take off, like a shot, with the initial important 02:02:32.187 --> 02:02:34.718 - work the Rosso administration is doing, 02:02:35.074 --> 02:02:41.993 - to redesign this is really exciting. It is a natural, necessary step in the process to see and talk 02:02:41.993 --> 02:02:48.981 - about process. And this is the next natural chapter of what is happening at the Hopewell Project. It 02:02:48.981 --> 02:02:56.039 - does require a shift in many years of policy, but it certainly seems well worth it. And all along the 02:02:56.039 --> 02:03:02.750 - way, always thinking about what's realistic, do the numbers work, and can, let me tell you this, 02:03:03.074 --> 02:03:09.479 - live, work, and stay here, and put housing for their families. So as a community health partner, CAEHG 02:03:09.479 --> 02:03:15.823 - stands ready to help with this conversation. There are creative tools out there to help with mortgage 02:03:15.823 --> 02:03:22.228 - financing for people who may not be able to afford that 100%. We may need to avoid mortgage insurance. 02:03:22.228 --> 02:03:28.447 - And it was talked about earlier by a speaker. This is an opportunity, and I've heard it tonight, to 02:03:28.447 --> 02:03:32.862 - help the police to do what it does very well, which is try new things. 02:03:34.434 --> 02:04:01.918 - That's your time sir. Thank you. 02:04:08.258 --> 02:04:15.918 - There we go. My name is Tina Peterson, president and CEO of the Community Foundation of Bloomington 02:04:15.918 --> 02:04:23.655 - and Monroe County and also of regional opportunity initiatives to see three organizations focused on 02:04:23.655 --> 02:04:27.102 - ensuring that people and communities thrive. 02:04:28.354 --> 02:04:34.683 - At the risk of dating myself, but to add context, I want you to know that I served on the committee 02:04:34.683 --> 02:04:41.265 - established by Mayor Cruzan several mayors ago, almost 14 years ago, that first looked at the potential 02:04:41.265 --> 02:04:47.784 - of what today we call the Hopewell site to bring much needed value to our community. Over the last few 02:04:47.784 --> 02:04:54.113 - months, the community foundation has been engaging with stakeholders across our community to better 02:04:54.113 --> 02:04:57.214 - understand our challenges and our opportunities. 02:04:57.954 --> 02:05:05.414 - From everyone on everyone's list of our challenges in this community is housing. It's consistent person 02:05:05.414 --> 02:05:12.731 - after person Organization after organization that housing is what constrains us most significantly in 02:05:12.731 --> 02:05:19.905 - this community We are looking for right housing that will allow individuals that live and work here 02:05:19.905 --> 02:05:22.846 - to thrive regardless of income level and 02:05:22.946 --> 02:05:29.676 - Housing that will allow new employees to call our community home housing will ensure that that will 02:05:29.676 --> 02:05:36.474 - ensure that tax revenue stays here in our community and Housing that will help to reverse population 02:05:36.474 --> 02:05:43.338 - decline in our community The housing studies that ROI has conducted regularly in our region enumerate 02:05:43.338 --> 02:05:45.694 - housing needs at every price point 02:05:45.890 --> 02:05:52.625 - whether rentals or owner-occupied, and speak to the importance of providing missing middle housing for 02:05:52.625 --> 02:05:58.903 - those seeking attainable, walkable, low-maintenance living options that primarily benefit young 02:05:58.903 --> 02:06:05.573 - professionals, first-time home buyers, downsizers, I think that's a word, and working-class families. 02:06:05.573 --> 02:06:12.308 - In our work, we've had the opportunity to work with entities focused on making housing more attainable 02:06:12.308 --> 02:06:14.270 - and affordable and buildable. 02:06:14.690 --> 02:06:21.521 - Through strategies like those proposed for the PD PUD we are here to discuss tonight. It's housing that 02:06:21.521 --> 02:06:28.353 - serves populations We need to attract and retain and that is by design by design buildable by homegrown 02:06:28.353 --> 02:06:34.987 - developers This community needs housing that both Needs the housing that both the seat the Community 02:06:34.987 --> 02:06:41.556 - Foundation and ROI have been investing We are willing to do our part where we need everyone else to 02:06:41.556 --> 02:06:43.198 - do their part as well. I 02:06:43.522 --> 02:06:50.986 - It would seem that we are moving in the right direction and on the right path, but quite honestly, it's 02:06:50.986 --> 02:06:58.523 - a path that we've been on for way too long. I started these conversations with people 14 years ago right 02:06:58.523 --> 02:07:05.054 - on a committee. These conversations about Hopewell, even if it wasn't named that then, are 02:07:05.054 --> 02:07:10.078 - no less significant today than they were then and that's unfortunate. 02:07:10.466 --> 02:07:18.401 - We need we need to think differently and to innovate. I ask you this evening to signal your 02:07:18.401 --> 02:07:27.026 - shared understanding Of that urgency and support the Peter. Thank you so much Good evening council, 02:07:27.026 --> 02:07:35.910 - my name is Clark Greiner I am the interim CEO for the Bloomington Economic Development Corporation and 02:07:35.910 --> 02:07:37.118 - I urge you to 02:07:37.442 --> 02:07:43.860 - Support the Hopewell South PUD this evening the BDC believes in doing so will enhance the attainable 02:07:43.860 --> 02:07:50.406 - housing Presently, there's a gap in our housing stock of the community Hopewell PUD will offer several 02:07:50.406 --> 02:07:56.062 - strategies begin to cover the gap and make attainable housing much more of a reality and 02:07:56.546 --> 02:08:03.069 - First, I'm here to express the support of the BEDC for the passage of this. We believe that the project 02:08:03.069 --> 02:08:09.843 - represents a transformative opportunity for the community and our local industries and the broader regional 02:08:09.843 --> 02:08:17.118 - economy. The Hopewell Project offers a diverse type of housing, such as tiny housing, ADU's, single-family housing, 02:08:17.218 --> 02:08:23.649 - And from a business retention expansion and attraction perspective, housing is really where our jobs 02:08:23.649 --> 02:08:30.080 - sleep and are a vital component and necessary to retain and attract the workforce, but to also bring 02:08:30.080 --> 02:08:36.574 - the employers into our community. One of the big concerns that we have and we hear oftentimes is that 02:08:36.674 --> 02:08:43.362 - We need to bring good paying jobs in our communities. Housing is a key component of that. The availability 02:08:43.362 --> 02:08:49.675 - workforce is also a key element. The BEDC led initiatives and attainable housing is a very important 02:08:49.675 --> 02:08:56.050 - component. And housing availability and price is a question that is frequently asked by visiting CEOs 02:08:56.050 --> 02:09:02.238 - and existing CEOs and their site selection professionals when they're making a location selection. 02:09:02.338 --> 02:09:09.636 - The Hopewell PUD pre-approved designs will begin to address the administrative cost to build and develop 02:09:09.636 --> 02:09:16.657 - attainable housing in Bloomington. And according to the National Home Builders Association, 23.8% of 02:09:16.657 --> 02:09:24.094 - the final price of a house is attributable to regulation. Expedite development processes offer predictable 02:09:24.094 --> 02:09:30.558 - for professional builders and families, and the need for housing to help keep the cost lower 02:09:30.786 --> 02:09:36.856 - and workers in our community. Given Bloomington's annexation challenges, the PUD encourages density 02:09:36.856 --> 02:09:43.168 - by offering small footprints on smaller lots, which attract and are very attractive for first-time home 02:09:43.168 --> 02:09:49.663 - buyers, and it helps keep costs low. The BEDC recognizes the Hopewell Initiative aligns with our strategic 02:09:49.663 --> 02:09:55.915 - priorities, such as job creation for business attraction, retention, and expansion, and it's important 02:09:55.915 --> 02:09:57.918 - to mention that the CEOs, again, 02:09:57.986 --> 02:10:03.810 - and their senior leadership team take a lot of interest in housing. When we go on tours and take these 02:10:03.810 --> 02:10:09.803 - site visits, that's one of the primary questions that they ask. They say show us where affordable housing 02:10:09.803 --> 02:10:15.740 - is for our workforce. So we respectfully request a favorable consideration for this initiative and stand 02:10:15.740 --> 02:10:21.564 - ready to assist in any way to advance its success. So thank you for your leadership and your attention 02:10:21.564 --> 02:10:27.614 - to this very important economic development opportunity for Bloomington and our region. Thank you so much. 02:10:29.410 --> 02:10:36.841 - Take it away. Good evening. My name is Ron Walker. I'm president of CFC properties and workforce housing 02:10:36.841 --> 02:10:43.918 - LLC, both of which are cook group companies. And with me tonight is Dan Peterson, vice president of 02:10:43.918 --> 02:10:51.066 - industry and government affairs for cook. We're here on behalf of cook to express our strong support 02:10:51.066 --> 02:10:59.134 - for the establishment of the Hopewell South PUD. We're not simply in support of it. We're excited about Hopewell. 02:10:59.778 --> 02:11:05.746 - We've been following the proceedings, have participated in meetings and discussions, and we're eager 02:11:05.746 --> 02:11:11.950 - to see the development of owner-occupied housing at the former hospital site. Recently, in a small group 02:11:11.950 --> 02:11:18.450 - session with nonprofit leaders, the question was asked about what are some of the bright spots in Bloomington 02:11:18.450 --> 02:11:24.418 - right now? What are some of the great opportunities ahead of us? For us, the answer is Hopewell. How 02:11:24.418 --> 02:11:29.086 - fortunate we are, how fortunate you are, to have this opportunity to redevelop 02:11:29.346 --> 02:11:36.601 - Hospital into a new residential neighborhood focused on owner occupied housing To build homes that can 02:11:36.601 --> 02:11:43.715 - be purchased at different price points to feature small lots traditional street grid layout walkable 02:11:43.715 --> 02:11:50.829 - connectivity This is what Bloomington needs. This is what our community has been asking for and what 02:11:50.829 --> 02:11:58.718 - a great opportunity you have in front of you tonight at cook we know the real challenges housing challenges and 02:11:58.914 --> 02:12:07.095 - Exist in our region we hear it from our employees We hear it from those who we are recruiting for careers 02:12:07.095 --> 02:12:14.812 - with cook That's why a few years ago. We committed to building houses We build houses we offer them 02:12:14.812 --> 02:12:22.684 - to our employees first at our cost It's a zero profit program from cook. We use all local contractors 02:12:22.684 --> 02:12:27.006 - our primary builder authentic homes is here tonight and 02:12:28.354 --> 02:12:36.669 - We sold our 30th home about two weeks ago in Spencer, and we plan to build many more. I can tell you 02:12:36.669 --> 02:12:45.396 - from doing this, timing and timelines are extremely important. There's plenty of time to work out details 02:12:45.396 --> 02:12:53.958 - here, but we have to move on this now. The housing challenge in Bloomington is real. We should all feel 02:12:53.958 --> 02:12:57.086 - a big sense of urgency to address it. 02:12:57.250 --> 02:13:04.861 - And you have the chance to do that tonight. That's why we asked the council to address this housing 02:13:04.861 --> 02:13:12.853 - challenge directly To not delay and to support the Hopewell South PUD rezoned by voting. Yes unanimously 02:13:12.853 --> 02:13:20.464 - tonight Thank you for your time. Thank you Howdy I'm Greg Alexander I have a few criticisms of this 02:13:20.464 --> 02:13:24.574 - specific design. The density is really good, right? I 02:13:24.674 --> 02:13:30.848 - but the lane concept is bad. If we have to amend the transportation plan in order to have dense housing, 02:13:30.848 --> 02:13:36.786 - if we need to invent a new street type that's 20 feet wide that doesn't have sidewalks, we should be 02:13:36.786 --> 02:13:42.725 - hearing from a planner. It's just a street with no sidewalks, by the way. That's what it is. There's 02:13:42.725 --> 02:13:48.664 - an emphasis on parking. 100% impervious coverage that pushes all the green space into an HOA is bad. 02:13:48.664 --> 02:13:51.486 - An HOA is bad. It's a barrier to affordability. 02:13:51.810 --> 02:13:57.821 - The dreams of how this is going to be financed and built, I don't think they're realistic. Overspecifying 02:13:57.821 --> 02:14:03.663 - individual designs instead of making good zoning code that anybody can use is bad. Using a PUD is bad. 02:14:03.663 --> 02:14:09.390 - PUDs politicize housing. We all saw that last week or two weeks ago when the mayor excoriated you in 02:14:09.390 --> 02:14:15.232 - a press release because you didn't bend your rules. Like, PUDs are a slow process. Fundamentally, this 02:14:15.232 --> 02:14:21.470 - isn't about getting housing built. This is about assigning blame for the fact that housing isn't being built. 02:14:22.082 --> 02:14:28.074 - The case for this PUD is that it is an experiment. There's no experiment. We know these houses are gonna 02:14:28.074 --> 02:14:33.780 - be extremely desirable, and the people who live there are gonna be so happy to live in them. But is 02:14:33.780 --> 02:14:39.829 - this gonna lead to anything? Is this gonna convince people? You know that's not true. You know the moment 02:14:39.829 --> 02:14:41.598 - you put zoning on your agenda, 02:14:41.954 --> 02:14:45.994 - Which if it's going to be in September, oh my God, right? If you're going to have a line out the door 02:14:45.994 --> 02:14:50.073 - like this line is going to look like nothing and you're going to be hearing from a bunch of old people 02:14:50.073 --> 02:14:54.034 - who don't think young people deserve housing. You're going to be hearing from a bunch of people who 02:14:54.034 --> 02:14:58.074 - hate housing in general hate all the new development. You'll be hearing shearing and jeering from the 02:14:58.074 --> 02:15:00.094 - audience. It will be people will be attacking you. 02:15:00.290 --> 02:15:06.112 - every time you go outside, are costing you about this. You don't want that result, but if you're gonna 02:15:06.112 --> 02:15:11.877 - build housing, if you're gonna actually do zoning code that's more than just one and a half blocks at 02:15:11.877 --> 02:15:17.811 - a time, you're going to endure that process. And I think you're doing this one and a half blocks instead 02:15:17.811 --> 02:15:23.520 - of enduring that process. That's my fear here. The thing is, the people who hate all new development 02:15:23.520 --> 02:15:27.646 - are a tiny minority in this town. And you guys were elected to do a job. 02:15:27.842 --> 02:15:35.223 - passing piecemeal PUDs will not do that job. It will just lead to more PUDs. PUDs require that our certified 02:15:35.223 --> 02:15:41.995 - planning staff has to put political concerns above their job. That's bad development policy. That's 02:15:41.995 --> 02:15:48.970 - not a good way to address affordable housing. It's corruption, and I'm saying that formally. Like, the 02:15:48.970 --> 02:15:55.945 - mayor is pushing on you to do this well faster than your usual process because she's using the slowest 02:15:55.945 --> 02:15:57.502 - possible way to do it. 02:15:58.114 --> 02:16:04.791 - the one where she gets to decide zoning law for every block and a half in the city. That's ridiculous. 02:16:04.791 --> 02:16:11.339 - We need good zoning code for the entire city, and we shouldn't make it dependent upon who has a good 02:16:11.339 --> 02:16:18.081 - relationship with the mayor. It should be open to everybody that owns property and everybody that wants 02:16:18.081 --> 02:16:22.814 - to develop. Thank you. Thank you. Take it away. Hi, I'm Jen Mayer, and I 02:16:23.042 --> 02:16:30.565 - Respectfully, we all like affordable housing like I get it I'm wondering if we could go on to the reason 02:16:30.565 --> 02:16:37.801 - that the the flock cameras the part that was buried in this meeting and is the very last thing we're 02:16:37.801 --> 02:16:45.109 - talking about I would respectfully ask if we could get to that in a timely manner We all know we want 02:16:45.109 --> 02:16:51.486 - affordable housing. Thank you. Thank you Thank you All right More you go ahead. Go ahead 02:16:51.682 --> 02:16:56.916 - I didn't see you there, go ahead. So a lot has been said about the buzzword of the year, affordability, 02:16:56.916 --> 02:17:02.402 - but right across the street from Hopewell are the Seminary Point apartments, and they're the most affordable 02:17:02.402 --> 02:17:07.535 - apartments in the area. People are living in them right now, and every single one of those people was 02:17:07.535 --> 02:17:12.870 - told a couple weeks ago that they will be forced out of their homes in July. I understand these buildings 02:17:12.870 --> 02:17:17.902 - are owned by the county, something to do with their disastrous convention center, but the buildings 02:17:17.902 --> 02:17:20.318 - and the people living in them are in this city, 02:17:20.642 --> 02:17:26.052 - right across the street from Hopewell, and they are my friends, and they will not be able to afford 02:17:26.052 --> 02:17:31.894 - what you are making. Why are you letting the county destroy meaningfully affordable housing in Bloomington? 02:17:31.894 --> 02:17:37.412 - And if you don't like that framing, which is fair, I understand, it's incendiary. What will you do to 02:17:37.412 --> 02:17:42.984 - get the seminary point leases renewed, empower these tenants to decide their own futures, and stop the 02:17:42.984 --> 02:17:47.582 - county from destroying the affordable housing we already have? Thank you. Thank you. 02:17:52.738 --> 02:18:00.447 - I'm Jack Baker resident of the McDole historic neighborhood district. I've been a I'm a Bloomington 02:18:00.447 --> 02:18:08.464 - I type in here for 57 years. I love Bloomington Over the years. I've served on numerous City Commission 02:18:08.464 --> 02:18:12.318 - says give back for what the city has given me and 02:18:13.346 --> 02:18:20.019 - During my tenure on the Plan Commission under the Hamilton administration, I gave a newspaper interview. 02:18:20.019 --> 02:18:26.374 - I was asked by the Herald Telephone what I thought should be done with the now Hopewell property. I 02:18:26.374 --> 02:18:32.920 - said it should become a neighborhood like those north and south of Prospect Hill and McDowell Gardens. 02:18:32.920 --> 02:18:39.402 - It should all be single-family housing. That was anathema to the administration. It said that my idea 02:18:39.402 --> 02:18:41.054 - was crazy and unworkable. 02:18:41.314 --> 02:18:47.937 - multiple large multi-story buildings with townhouses to buy or apartments to rent and construction by 02:18:47.937 --> 02:18:54.821 - one or two large out-of-town developers. As a gesture to the neighborhood, it allocated one small section 02:18:54.821 --> 02:19:01.574 - on the south boundary across from McDowell for a few single-family homes. After many years have passed, 02:19:01.574 --> 02:19:05.470 - a new idea has developed under the Thompson administration. 02:19:05.602 --> 02:19:12.158 - section dedicated to single-family housing in the same small area With the difference of zoning in place 02:19:12.158 --> 02:19:18.526 - and a pick list of housing types and by right building It offers the density of cities demand ease of 02:19:18.526 --> 02:19:25.270 - obtaining building permission relatively low buy-in and the opportunity for local contractor participation, 02:19:25.270 --> 02:19:31.326 - I hope you'll pass it I believe it will prove the best pattern for development and hope well and 02:19:31.522 --> 02:19:38.293 - I don't know if mayor Thompson plans to develop this pattern more widely and hope well, but I will encourage 02:19:38.293 --> 02:19:44.630 - her to What would be more appropriate than extending the fabric of Bloomington community across? Hope 02:19:44.630 --> 02:19:51.214 - well creating an exciting new neighborhood of single-family homes nestled among traditional neighborhoods 02:19:51.214 --> 02:19:57.613 - of the city Thank you Thank you Good evening, my name is Jason Bell. I'm the executive director of the 02:19:57.613 --> 02:19:59.166 - Builders Association and 02:19:59.330 --> 02:20:06.057 - I wrote a whole bunch up, but I think most of it's been covered tonight. So I just wanted to say that, 02:20:06.057 --> 02:20:12.654 - you know, we all know the challenges that the community faces with housing. Housing costs are on the 02:20:12.654 --> 02:20:19.185 - rise. Construction costs remain high. Financing is complex. Families struggling to find attainable, 02:20:19.185 --> 02:20:25.716 - family-friendly housing. Hopewell, I think, is a direct answer to that, those concerns. I get phone 02:20:25.716 --> 02:20:27.806 - calls every day. I literally... 02:20:28.450 --> 02:20:37.495 - At least every day if not twice three times a day from people in the community that work here, but they 02:20:37.495 --> 02:20:46.279 - can't live here This is this is the answer the building association supports the mayor supports this 02:20:46.279 --> 02:20:55.063 - This is what we need for our community. Thank you for your time Thank you. We have time for one more 02:20:55.063 --> 02:20:57.150 - comment Ready I'm gonna 02:20:57.634 --> 02:21:05.056 - Try to keep this pretty short and simple. I've worked with Cook, or my company's worked with Cook, as 02:21:05.056 --> 02:21:12.623 - well as we've right now currently working with Chris Smith over at Harmon Farms. And we talk about this 02:21:12.623 --> 02:21:20.117 - word affordable, okay? I'm gonna tell you what it means to me. It means the average working family can 02:21:20.117 --> 02:21:27.102 - afford this house. In working with both of those, we have created those. I know that with Cook, 02:21:27.362 --> 02:21:39.705 - Most of those homes were around $60,000 below market value that they were being sold at. In Harmon Farms, 02:21:39.705 --> 02:21:51.349 - we just sold a house for $290,000. Two bedroom, two bath, two car garage. It's something people can 02:21:51.349 --> 02:21:55.774 - afford that are in the working class. 02:21:56.162 --> 02:22:02.749 - When I look through some of the pricing that I've seen in some of this, they seem to be covering a wide 02:22:02.749 --> 02:22:09.210 - variety. It seems to be realistic with their numbers when I look at it. I say, yes, I think it can be 02:22:09.210 --> 02:22:15.670 - built for that. That can really happen. And I'm excited to find something that would reach out to the 02:22:15.670 --> 02:22:22.131 - people that are working, that are paying taxes, that are doing things in this community, that are the 02:22:22.131 --> 02:22:24.094 - vibrant part of the community. 02:22:24.994 --> 02:22:32.073 - Actually have an opportunity to find a place here that's affordable to live. I think that Like any project 02:22:32.073 --> 02:22:38.755 - it's going to have great things. It's going to have not so great things but overall I believe it's a 02:22:38.755 --> 02:22:45.636 - good thing that the mayor is trying to do here to put some affordable housing in the middle of downtown 02:22:45.636 --> 02:22:46.430 - Bloomington 02:22:48.418 --> 02:22:54.468 - Thank you so much, unless there's any motions that should conclude our time of public comment. 02:22:54.468 --> 02:23:00.836 - I hope he's, Councillor Satsburg, sorry. I do have a motion, but it's nonrelated to public comment. 02:23:00.836 --> 02:23:02.046 - Should I go ahead? 02:23:13.730 --> 02:23:20.857 - And I'm so let me just make a quick comment then I'm sorry for the people online and we'd set the time 02:23:20.857 --> 02:23:27.914 - for 30 minutes Folks extended it. There's no motion on the floor to extend it. I cannot make motions. 02:23:27.914 --> 02:23:35.318 - So I would like to move to postpone further consideration of ordinance 20 2606 to our next regular session 02:23:35.318 --> 02:23:41.822 - on March 25th There's a motion in a second any discussion Please councilmember Piedmont Smith 02:23:44.194 --> 02:23:51.866 - Yes, while I am generally favorable of this proposal and I hear the overwhelming support for it, I think 02:23:51.866 --> 02:23:59.245 - there are still some critical details that are not clear. And there have already been two reasonable 02:23:59.245 --> 02:24:06.844 - conditions that have been mentioned by colleagues, and there may be others that we might want to impose 02:24:06.844 --> 02:24:13.054 - in order to make this a better project. And certainly there are a lot of things that 02:24:13.602 --> 02:24:21.484 - I don't quite understand how they're going to work once this is built. So we really do need to take 02:24:21.484 --> 02:24:29.524 - our time with this. We normally would do two readings. And so it would be highly unusual to pass this 02:24:29.524 --> 02:24:37.406 - on the first reading, which is tonight. So I would encourage my colleagues to have another meeting. 02:24:37.794 --> 02:24:44.528 - Where we could between now and then get some of our questions answered and bring forward some reasonable 02:24:44.528 --> 02:24:50.940 - conditions. Thank you Thank You customer sasper I guess I'll go ahead and explain the reasoning for 02:24:50.940 --> 02:24:57.482 - my motion to especially because there are so many public commenters who encouraged us to just vote on 02:24:57.482 --> 02:25:03.895 - this tonight I I guess I first want to say I'm a little frustrated That we were we started out this 02:25:03.895 --> 02:25:07.614 - presentation being threatened with greater costs in order 02:25:07.714 --> 02:25:14.431 - Unless we unless we vote tonight because this councilmember Piedmont Smith said it is unusual for us 02:25:14.431 --> 02:25:21.081 - to only deal with the PUD in one reading I appreciate that there are lots of steps to a PUD but the 02:25:21.081 --> 02:25:28.063 - petitioner knew this when they began going down this road and Council is one of the steps and I consider 02:25:28.063 --> 02:25:33.982 - it a responsibility of council to and a responsibility of myself as a council member and 02:25:34.146 --> 02:25:41.671 - Do my due diligence on this and it is doing a disservice to this community if as a council representative 02:25:41.671 --> 02:25:48.913 - I do not Ensure that that this is the the best way to do things Okay, and and you know, we have a lot 02:25:48.913 --> 02:25:56.083 - of people here clearly is one of the earlier commenters said that that are here about flock and this 02:25:56.083 --> 02:26:02.686 - idea of Trusting the government to do the best thing and if this was a private petitioner, I 02:26:03.074 --> 02:26:09.380 - I don't think anybody would have been standing up at that mic today saying hurry up and push it through. 02:26:09.380 --> 02:26:15.567 - And the only reason why people were is because well, it's like our local government and we trust them, 02:26:15.567 --> 02:26:21.573 - right? And it's not that I'm doubting my trust in our administration, in the staff that have worked 02:26:21.573 --> 02:26:26.558 - on this project, in the RDC, but I think that as another branch of the government, 02:26:26.818 --> 02:26:33.543 - I mean, I think that we have to do extra diligence to cross our T's and dot our eyes because we are 02:26:33.543 --> 02:26:40.336 - monitoring ourselves right now and there have been lots of recent examples not local examples per se 02:26:40.336 --> 02:26:47.128 - but at state and federal levels we're monitoring ourselves in terms of government is not working out 02:26:47.128 --> 02:26:54.526 - very well and so the least I can do is make sure that the documentation matches the intent of the project and 02:26:55.138 --> 02:27:02.964 - That moving forward regardless of who is in the seats of the administration The the project is going 02:27:02.964 --> 02:27:10.867 - to move forward as intended in terms of affordability in terms of Building structures in terms of how 02:27:10.867 --> 02:27:18.925 - it's supposed to serve Bloomington the people who live here and the people who want to live here. Thank 02:27:18.925 --> 02:27:22.334 - you Thank You councilmember Rallo Thank you 02:27:23.042 --> 02:27:30.074 - I generally support this petition and I appreciate the work that's been done, but I also support the 02:27:30.074 --> 02:27:37.315 - postponement to consider reasonable conditions I I Will suspend judgment on those specifics until until 02:27:37.315 --> 02:27:44.347 - my colleagues bring forward But I respect their ability to do it and I'm a little bit puzzled by the 02:27:44.347 --> 02:27:51.797 - assertion that we should simply approve this without a modest process of a couple weeks, which is standard 02:27:51.797 --> 02:27:52.702 - practice and 02:27:52.866 --> 02:28:00.534 - And we've been waiting, by the way, for this for a couple of years. So we're not to blame in terms of 02:28:00.534 --> 02:28:08.053 - delay. This has been going on for some time. It's not our fault. It just landed in our lab. So it's 02:28:08.053 --> 02:28:16.022 - an important PUD. It's permanent. It's permanent. And it's significant. And it's vital for our community. 02:28:16.022 --> 02:28:21.886 - And it deserves due consideration. Thanks. Thank you so much. Other comments? 02:28:23.650 --> 02:28:32.162 - Okay. Um, seeing none. Um, all those in favor, uh, sorry, sorry. Where, where's there? It came as you 02:28:32.162 --> 02:28:40.840 - know, as a, as an angel from the sky. There's no pending motion on, on the floor right now to postpone. 02:28:40.840 --> 02:28:46.014 - So I think there was a motion motion to postpone in a second. 02:28:46.210 --> 02:28:54.994 - Know but the the motion to postpone typically is made when there is a main motion. So Yes, I mean what 02:28:54.994 --> 02:29:03.778 - one alternative at this point would be to make a motion to move ordinance 2026-06 to to second reading 02:29:03.778 --> 02:29:10.686 - or there may be other motions that may be appropriate to Thank you so much, Lisa 02:29:11.554 --> 02:29:18.625 - Please come councilmember Sasberg knowing that then I will withdraw my motion and instead make a motion 02:29:18.625 --> 02:29:25.492 - to move ordinance 20 2606 to second reading at our next regular session on March 25th Just does that 02:29:25.492 --> 02:29:32.291 - meet the qualification attorney later, I think that works. Thank you All right. There's a motion to 02:29:32.291 --> 02:29:35.486 - move to March 25th. Are there any comments on? 02:29:38.530 --> 02:29:46.437 - I'll just make one that I think at some point it was mentioned that Ali is not able to attend at the 02:29:46.437 --> 02:29:54.501 - 25th, that I hear that correctly was this, and that's correct. Okay, so I mean that consideration, and 02:29:54.501 --> 02:30:02.799 - I don't know if it's appropriate to ask questions at this time. So just that, I mean maybe just something 02:30:02.799 --> 02:30:07.966 - for us to consider is that whether we want to postpone, yeah, so. 02:30:09.346 --> 02:30:15.554 - Think usually we only postpone things for one meeting and then if it needs to be postponed the next 02:30:15.554 --> 02:30:21.762 - time then we should Advertise that we're not going to talk about it that we're going to postpone it 02:30:21.762 --> 02:30:28.218 - But given the number of public commenters tonight and that nobody got there on zoom. We might just want 02:30:28.218 --> 02:30:34.426 - to hear public comment even if There are questions that would remain unanswered By Ali's absence. I 02:30:34.426 --> 02:30:37.406 - also though think that if we manage to submit a 02:30:38.242 --> 02:30:49.682 - Questions prior than perhaps staff that are available on that day would be able to pass forward answers 02:30:49.682 --> 02:31:01.342 - Any other questions or comments Any other questions or comments All right seeing no questions or comments 02:31:01.342 --> 02:31:06.622 - we will move to a vote so all those in favor of 02:31:08.130 --> 02:31:18.192 - Okay, it's been requested that we do a roll call will the clerk please and call the roll Yes, Stalzberg, 02:31:18.192 --> 02:31:28.830 - yes Piedmont Smith. Yes, do you look? No, I'm sorry. No daily. No Rallo. Yes, rough. Yes, Rosenberger. Yes. Oh 02:31:30.146 --> 02:31:39.509 - That motion carries six three. So we will discuss this again on our March 25th meeting. Thank you all 02:31:39.509 --> 02:31:48.779 - very much for your time. All right, we will now move on to items for second reading and resolutions. 02:31:48.779 --> 02:31:58.142 - Are there any motions? 2026-04 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only please. 02:31:58.466 --> 02:32:05.566 - There's a motion and a second all those in favor say aye aye any opposed will the clerk please read 02:32:05.566 --> 02:32:12.878 - Resolution 2026-04 a resolution establishing immediate transparency limits and a public review process 02:32:12.878 --> 02:32:18.558 - for automated license plate reader technology in Bloomington the synopsis reads 02:32:18.722 --> 02:32:24.481 - This resolution sponsored by council member sorry requires the chief of police and office of the mayor 02:32:24.481 --> 02:32:30.184 - to brief the common council on the city of Bloomington's automated license plate reader a LPR program 02:32:30.184 --> 02:32:35.998 - with specified information provided in plain language writing. It also calls on the office of the mayor 02:32:35.998 --> 02:32:41.310 - to impose immediate pause on any expansion of the LPR program until the briefing is completed. 02:32:41.826 --> 02:32:49.541 - Finally this resolution states the common council's intent to consider adoption of an ordinance to establish 02:32:49.541 --> 02:32:56.689 - durable rules governing acquisition and use of a LPR technology by the city of Bloomington Thank you 02:32:56.689 --> 02:33:03.979 - very much and because I wrote this I will hand the gavel over to councilmember daily I move resolution 02:33:03.979 --> 02:33:09.854 - 2026-04 be adopted second All right, you're in charge sorry to interrupt all right 02:33:10.114 --> 02:33:17.573 - Thank you very much. I don't need to hold this. Would you like to present as the resolution sponsor? 02:33:17.573 --> 02:33:24.958 - Yeah, just super quickly. I wrote a bit about this in our last packet, so I don't think any of this 02:33:24.958 --> 02:33:32.416 - needs to take too much time so we can go to public comment and wrap up. But I think I'd like to just 02:33:32.416 --> 02:33:36.478 - frame the purpose and the approach of this resolution. 02:33:36.802 --> 02:33:42.929 - For those who wouldn't be familiar, ALPR systems I think are becoming increasingly common across the 02:33:42.929 --> 02:33:49.602 - country, often deployed with what people would say are legitimate goals, which is like things like recovering 02:33:49.602 --> 02:33:51.422 - stolen vehicles, assisting in 02:33:51.554 --> 02:33:57.351 - Missing-person cases generating leads and serious crimes helping public safety agencies operate more 02:33:57.351 --> 02:34:03.493 - efficiently and yada yada And I think that those are real public goods and they deserve to be acknowledged 02:34:03.493 --> 02:34:09.290 - But the central question before us is not whether public safety matters Of course, it does think the 02:34:09.290 --> 02:34:12.734 - question is how we pursue it what capabilities we build and 02:34:12.994 --> 02:34:18.845 - what risks we accept, what limits we place on ourselves when technology expands the reach of institutional 02:34:18.845 --> 02:34:24.423 - power. I think generally that we should avoid a common trap in technology, which is this sort of idea 02:34:24.423 --> 02:34:30.055 - that any potential benefit, no matter how small, is sufficient justification for something. When we're 02:34:30.055 --> 02:34:35.469 - dealing with tools that collect large amounts of data of any sort, or particularly location-linked 02:34:35.469 --> 02:34:41.101 - information about residents and visitors, many of whom are not suspective of wrongdoing, it might help 02:34:41.101 --> 02:34:42.960 - sometimes cannot be our governing 02:34:42.960 --> 02:34:49.121 - standard. Benefits should be demonstrated, not presumed, and they should decisively outweigh the civil 02:34:49.121 --> 02:34:55.461 - liberties, security, and governance risks that are created by the system itself. So the resolution before 02:34:55.461 --> 02:35:01.861 - you tonight is intended as a first step toward responsible governance in this space. It does three things. 02:35:01.861 --> 02:35:04.254 - First, it establishes a shared premise. 02:35:04.450 --> 02:35:10.941 - that technologies capable of collecting large volumes of location-based data require a higher level 02:35:10.941 --> 02:35:15.614 - of transparency and democratic oversight than ordinary municipal tools. 02:35:16.130 --> 02:35:21.926 - It initiates a structured process of inquiry. It asks for a public briefing and written material so 02:35:21.926 --> 02:35:27.896 - that the council and the community can understand the program as it exists today, its scope, its cost, 02:35:27.896 --> 02:35:33.692 - its retention policies, its access controls, its auditing practices, and its data sharing pathways. 02:35:33.692 --> 02:35:39.488 - In other words, the due diligence required to make informed decisions in daylight. I will note here 02:35:39.488 --> 02:35:46.096 - that several members of the public submitted to us a sort of shared, a joint written report noting multiple times 02:35:46.096 --> 02:35:52.268 - where they have sought information under the Freedom of Information Act and that that's been obscured 02:35:52.268 --> 02:35:58.682 - or not accessible to them in certain cases. And third, it signals the council's intent to develop durable 02:35:58.682 --> 02:36:04.793 - and enforceable rules governing ALPR and similar technologies in Bloomington, rules that would apply 02:36:04.793 --> 02:36:11.328 - regardless of vendor. Now this point I think is quite important. I know that right now the sort of reaction 02:36:11.328 --> 02:36:16.048 - is to a particular vendor and I have particular thoughts about the particular 02:36:16.048 --> 02:36:21.964 - particular vendor, but we need to think in a broader sense that it's not just maybe a concern with this 02:36:21.964 --> 02:36:27.710 - vendor, but about the use and governance of this technology in Bloomington sort of at all. And so to 02:36:27.710 --> 02:36:33.740 - me, the deeper question is whether institutions are prepared to govern technologies that will only become 02:36:33.740 --> 02:36:36.926 - more powerful and more common over time. And so I think 02:36:37.090 --> 02:36:42.746 - That's this is sort of the the first motion. I mean sort of first step here And it's a spirit in which 02:36:42.746 --> 02:36:48.402 - this resolution was drafted and I look forward to the discussion All right, thank you very much before 02:36:48.402 --> 02:36:53.948 - we move to questions do we want to introduce amendment one first up because it was just a Small part 02:36:53.948 --> 02:36:59.769 - that kind of plays into the rest of it doesn't make a huge change But I think an important one. So before 02:36:59.769 --> 02:37:05.150 - we move to discussion Councilmember Piedmont Smith, would you like to introduce your amendment? I 02:37:06.530 --> 02:37:17.086 - Yes, I'd like to introduce amendment one to resolution 20 2604 Amendment one just gives a six-week deadline 02:37:17.086 --> 02:37:27.154 - for the mayor's administration to Give us the public briefing that is outlined in the resolution Thank 02:37:27.154 --> 02:37:33.214 - you any questions about amendment one councilmember Stossberg 02:37:33.890 --> 02:37:41.339 - I think this is a question for President Asari about Amendment 1. Because of spring break, our next 02:37:41.339 --> 02:37:49.160 - regular session is already like three weeks away. So in terms of space on the future agendas to present, 02:37:49.160 --> 02:37:57.131 - does that six-week time framework? Yes. Great. Thanks. Wonderful. Thanks. Any other questions on Amendment 02:37:57.131 --> 02:38:02.494 - 1 only? No? Seeing none. All right. We can then move to public comment. 02:38:02.658 --> 02:38:09.713 - just the amendment giving us the six-week timeframe for the Response from the administration. So would 02:38:09.713 --> 02:38:16.904 - anybody like to speak from the public on it? Just amendment one only you'll have an opportunity to speak 02:38:16.904 --> 02:38:23.959 - on the broader resolution in just a moment Amendment one. Yes. Okay. Come on to the podium. Thank you. 02:38:23.959 --> 02:38:29.918 - You have three minutes, please state your name and take it away My name is Robert home 02:38:30.178 --> 02:38:38.380 - I think amendment one makes eminent sense I think any deadline is better than no deadline And I certainly 02:38:38.380 --> 02:38:46.194 - leave it to the judgment of the council and the and the administration what deadline is appropriate. 02:38:46.194 --> 02:38:54.086 - Thank you Short and sweet. Thank you any other comments in chambers Anybody online looking to make it 02:38:54.086 --> 02:38:59.038 - a comment on amendment one All right, no, thank you very much I 02:38:59.298 --> 02:39:07.124 - Any councilmember comment before we move to a vote on amendment one? Councilmember Stossberg I'll also 02:39:07.124 --> 02:39:14.874 - echo the public commenter and I appreciate councilmember Piedmont Smith putting putting a deadline on 02:39:14.874 --> 02:39:22.548 - it. It's good idea. Thank you Any other any other comments All right, can we just do a voice vote on 02:39:22.548 --> 02:39:28.094 - this one or do we have to do roll call Roll call roll call. All right. I 02:39:28.194 --> 02:39:42.259 - Clerk Williamson, would you mind taking role, please? Oh, oh We don't either yeah Councilmember Sarsburg. 02:39:42.259 --> 02:39:55.262 - Yes, Piedmont Smith. Yes, Zulek. Yes. Sorry. Yes daily. Yes Rallo. Yes rough Rosenberger Flaherty 02:39:57.602 --> 02:40:05.941 - And that passes eight to zero Rosenberger councilmember Rosenberger was out of the room. All right. 02:40:05.941 --> 02:40:14.363 - Thank you. So now we're moving back to The broader resolution as a whole resolution 2026 dash Oh for 02:40:14.363 --> 02:40:22.702 - any councilmember questions for councilmember, sorry We're speechless No questions. Oh I would like 02:40:22.702 --> 02:40:27.038 - to hear from the public. So well then any questions 02:40:27.202 --> 02:40:33.891 - Okay. Well then, perfect. Ladies and gentlemen, the moment you've all been waiting for. It is my distinct 02:40:33.891 --> 02:40:40.643 - pleasure to introduce public comment on resolution 2026-04. Please come up to the microphone in an orderly 02:40:40.643 --> 02:40:47.143 - fashion. No pushing, no shoving, no name calling. Be kind to your neighbor. Remember to sign in, state 02:40:47.143 --> 02:40:53.579 - your name, and you have three minutes. Do we have 30 minutes set aside for this? Do we know? We don't 02:40:53.579 --> 02:40:54.526 - have anything. 02:40:58.498 --> 02:41:04.417 - You guys are good. All right, thank you, whenever you're ready. All right, thank you for your time. 02:41:04.417 --> 02:41:10.514 - Hello, I'm Sam Dixon, a local worker here. Just had some comments about the flock issue in general and 02:41:10.514 --> 02:41:16.492 - about the resolution. First of all, thank you, Council, for bringing this forward. I think it brings 02:41:16.492 --> 02:41:22.470 - transparency that has been direly lacking with the application of this technology for a considerable 02:41:22.470 --> 02:41:25.726 - amount of time. I appreciate the deadline being added. 02:41:26.210 --> 02:41:33.316 - it's a good first step towards understanding where we even at. The public has not been able to access 02:41:33.316 --> 02:41:40.771 - the contracts. The public has been received with obfuscation and stonewalling by the mayor. And generally, 02:41:40.771 --> 02:41:47.738 - we don't get a sense of trust. Do you really think we would expect a contract, a piece of paper, to 02:41:47.738 --> 02:41:52.894 - protect us from unlawful actors like ICE? These fascists are shredding up 02:41:53.154 --> 02:41:59.542 - other pieces of paper like the Constitution. They are destroying our rights. I do not feel safe with 02:41:59.542 --> 02:42:05.868 - the presence of flock in town. I think that's a very common viewpoint. As a person of color, I know 02:42:05.868 --> 02:42:12.446 - this is used to track me, to assess political dissidents, to clamp down on our civil liberties. I think 02:42:12.446 --> 02:42:19.024 - it's terrible. So I think step one, we need to cut the contracts. I know that's not up to you, counsel. 02:42:19.024 --> 02:42:20.542 - That's up to the mayor. 02:42:21.410 --> 02:42:27.433 - Step two, we need to ban flock and similar technologies. I would like to see us go there. I would like 02:42:27.433 --> 02:42:33.456 - to see us go further and to see a binding ordinance, which I appreciate. I feel that there's an effort 02:42:33.456 --> 02:42:39.420 - from the council and from the public in that direction. Just a couple more things, details. About the 02:42:39.420 --> 02:42:45.443 - rolling 30-day retention period of video, this is one of the obfuscations that we get from the mayor's 02:42:45.443 --> 02:42:50.238 - office commonly. Oh, we don't save the data, it's 30 days, and then it's deleted. 02:42:50.562 --> 02:42:57.399 - Technically, that's true. That's because of storage capacity. Video data is extremely large and difficult 02:42:57.399 --> 02:43:03.849 - to store. There is no limit on what is scraped through the video data through AI programs. There is 02:43:03.849 --> 02:43:10.557 - no limit to what the AI can turn out of said video data. They can profile many things about you. That's 02:43:10.557 --> 02:43:17.394 - derivative data that's way easier to store. Who knows where that's being used? Flock is simply a purveyor 02:43:17.394 --> 02:43:19.006 - of this data to whomever 02:43:19.362 --> 02:43:26.116 - is a high bidder or whomever is cozying up to the Trump regime and it's an easy cash grab for fascist 02:43:26.116 --> 02:43:32.870 - dollars. So I think we need to march towards banning the technology in general. The existence of this 02:43:32.870 --> 02:43:39.954 - technology is a threat to our safety. This type of data should not be taken at all. It cannot be entrusted 02:43:39.954 --> 02:43:46.046 - with law enforcement and it cannot be entrusted with our leaders at many levels. Thank you. 02:43:51.714 --> 02:44:08.408 - Thank you very much. Next member of the public, please sign in and state your name. You have three minutes. 02:44:08.408 --> 02:44:17.374 - Really close. Oh, there we go. My name is Susan Brackney. 02:44:18.306 --> 02:44:26.827 - Appreciate your willingness to consider putting limits and public review on a LPRs in Bloomington License 02:44:26.827 --> 02:44:35.026 - plate reading is one level of invasiveness If you look into what the condor pan tilt zoom cameras are 02:44:35.026 --> 02:44:43.065 - able to do It will curl your hair. I think there are a couple in that contract. Where is the mayor? 02:44:43.065 --> 02:44:47.486 - I wish she had stayed for this. I hope you're around I 02:44:47.746 --> 02:44:56.807 - This is important. This issue is bigger than just that camera. Focusing on Bloomington's use of one 02:44:56.807 --> 02:45:06.411 - system or one company in isolation is not enough. If you use flux technology alongside facial recognition 02:45:06.411 --> 02:45:15.743 - software, you've got yourself a live real-time dragnet. City councils like you in New Orleans, Austin, 02:45:15.743 --> 02:45:17.374 - and San Francisco 02:45:18.018 --> 02:45:26.084 - put laws in place to ban the use of facial recognition software by the police. And in New York, the 02:45:26.084 --> 02:45:34.554 - city police leadership barred officers from using facial recognition programs, too. And in each of those 02:45:34.554 --> 02:45:43.266 - cases, they all found workarounds, like asking buddies in different jurisdictions to run facial recognition 02:45:43.266 --> 02:45:46.654 - searches for them. So that's not helpful. 02:45:47.266 --> 02:45:55.671 - The advancement of these technologies has far outpaced our ability to establish proper guardrails and 02:45:55.671 --> 02:46:04.158 - protections If our experience is anything like that of those other municipalities Flock security could 02:46:04.158 --> 02:46:12.399 - end up costing the city millions of dollars in legal fees Because it could be argued that combining 02:46:12.399 --> 02:46:16.766 - these technologies in these ways violates our rights 02:46:16.866 --> 02:46:24.264 - Under the Constitution and I know that these cases have been going to court. So that's another thing 02:46:24.264 --> 02:46:31.589 - to think about Thanks again for being thoughtful about this very important issue appreciate it Next 02:46:31.589 --> 02:46:39.061 - member, please sign in and state your name for the podium you have Yeah, you know what? I'm trying to 02:46:39.061 --> 02:46:42.430 - say you have three minutes. Thank you testing 02:46:42.978 --> 02:46:51.791 - My name is Joffrey Livingston. I am a resident and I work here in Bloomington. I want to reiterate that 02:46:51.791 --> 02:47:00.351 - transparency about these contracts should be a given. Transparency should be an inherent part of the 02:47:00.351 --> 02:47:08.995 - relationship between people and government. And there will be many criticisms levied against FLOC and 02:47:08.995 --> 02:47:11.198 - ALPRs in general tonight. 02:47:11.458 --> 02:47:19.699 - But I think the reality is that we must, and once again, I also want to reiterate that the council does 02:47:19.699 --> 02:47:27.703 - not make this decision. The mayor who was present in this room and is no longer present in this room 02:47:27.703 --> 02:47:35.627 - for just this item alone is the one who makes this decision. But we must divest from this contract. 02:47:35.627 --> 02:47:38.718 - Fundamentally, this is about our city. 02:47:39.234 --> 02:47:47.267 - and its compliance with increasingly militant, increasingly weaponized technology and its use against 02:47:47.267 --> 02:47:55.143 - citizens. From 2024 and now forward, our history as a city and further will be marked by collective 02:47:55.143 --> 02:48:03.255 - resistance to American imperialism and the tech billionaires that fund it. Bloomington is historically 02:48:03.255 --> 02:48:07.902 - a progressive cultured town full of art, ideas, community, 02:48:08.002 --> 02:48:18.273 - life, but now our country is at war again, and we are good at football. So that means, among other things, 02:48:18.273 --> 02:48:28.255 - an increase of military training, increasing military facilities being built to train, all of this down 02:48:28.255 --> 02:48:37.086 - a funnel that who knows where we'll go, but this is just one small part of that siphon that 02:48:37.378 --> 02:48:46.571 - can suck all the life out of our city and distract from the rights of our people that we should be focusing 02:48:46.571 --> 02:48:55.508 - on. The contract belongs in the shredder, and Mayor Thompson belongs in this room. Thank you. All right, 02:48:55.508 --> 02:49:04.190 - thank you very much. Just one quick note, while our commenters are speaking, please do try to refrain 02:49:04.322 --> 02:49:09.820 - from reacting during their comments, because you do take away from their time, and that might be a little 02:49:09.820 --> 02:49:15.163 - unfair to them, no matter how much you agree. I appreciate that. We're actually going to move to check 02:49:15.163 --> 02:49:20.195 - on Zoom quickly to see if we have any Zoom commenters waiting. We have one waiting. Perfect. OK, 02:49:20.195 --> 02:49:25.538 - thank you. Go ahead whenever you're ready. Please remember to state your name if you feel comfortable. 02:49:25.538 --> 02:49:30.777 - Hey. My name is Pat Wall. I'm a Bloomington resident. And I don't have that much to say, because I'm 02:49:30.777 --> 02:49:33.630 - on Zoom. I'm not in the room. It's a little different. 02:49:33.986 --> 02:49:41.408 - But this technology is just so cartoonishly evil on its face. Like this is exactly the technology that 02:49:41.408 --> 02:49:48.974 - we all know is bad. When we think about a totalitarian society, we see it in our science fiction movies, 02:49:48.974 --> 02:49:56.324 - whatever. This is that technology. And so I know why the mayor had to leave. It's because she is back 02:49:56.324 --> 02:49:58.558 - at home twirling her mustache. 02:49:58.850 --> 02:50:10.835 - and tying up James Bond over a shark tank, because that's the kind of people that use this technology, 02:50:10.835 --> 02:50:21.773 - and yeah, that's what I got to say. Thanks. All right, thank you. Next commenter in the room, 02:50:21.773 --> 02:50:27.358 - thank you. Try now? Okay, wonderful, thank you. 02:50:27.586 --> 02:50:34.196 - Could I have my time reset? Thank you Hello, my name is Sarah Owen I am the community engagement coordinator 02:50:34.196 --> 02:50:40.382 - for the Exodus refugee immigration office here in Bloomington Exodus is here tonight to make clear to 02:50:40.382 --> 02:50:46.750 - the City Council and to the mayor that we are asking for the flock contract to be terminated in full and 02:50:47.010 --> 02:50:52.268 - With regard to this ongoing discussion about the contract, we ask you to consider everyone's investment 02:50:52.268 --> 02:50:57.325 - in the matter. Firstly, Flock is a private company selling you a product so they can make a profit, 02:50:57.325 --> 02:51:03.038 - and that is the extent of their interest in this matter. The language on their website is simply a matter of PR. 02:51:03.170 --> 02:51:08.536 - They state that FLOC does not share data with ICE. That does not mean that ICE or the federal government 02:51:08.536 --> 02:51:13.799 - does not have access to that data. In fact, there is already a clear and established pattern that that 02:51:13.799 --> 02:51:19.267 - is happening across the country and following these comments today, Exodus will be providing documentation 02:51:19.267 --> 02:51:24.429 - of that pattern to the council. The BPD is tasked with public safety and therefore advocates for the 02:51:24.429 --> 02:51:29.590 - use of FLOC cameras for the sake of investigating crimes. However, we respectfully contend that they 02:51:29.590 --> 02:51:32.094 - may not be considering the larger ramifications. 02:51:32.610 --> 02:51:38.406 - To be clear, we empathize with the objectives of maintaining public safety, but the more that our city 02:51:38.406 --> 02:51:44.201 - invests in data collection, allies with profit-driven companies, and fails to take a firm stand on our 02:51:44.201 --> 02:51:49.997 - community's basic rights, the less likely our immigrant community will feel safe to utilize police for 02:51:49.997 --> 02:51:55.961 - when they themselves are victims of a crime. In essence, continued use of tools such as the flock cameras 02:51:55.961 --> 02:52:00.350 - erodes trust between immigrants in the community and public safety officials. 02:52:00.962 --> 02:52:06.573 - Meanwhile, Exodus and organizations like us, we are your frontline experts on how legislative decisions 02:52:06.573 --> 02:52:12.077 - at the federal, state, and local levels are impacting Bloomington's immigrant community. Your experts 02:52:12.077 --> 02:52:17.580 - in immigration are telling you that these cameras pose a direct threat to the safety of our immigrant 02:52:17.580 --> 02:52:18.174 - neighbors. 02:52:19.330 --> 02:52:24.273 - The people in power at the federal level have already demonstrated a flagrant disregard for the law 02:52:24.273 --> 02:52:29.315 - and civil liberties and have shown that they will not hesitate to run roughshod over people's privacy 02:52:29.315 --> 02:52:34.654 - for the sake of scoring political points with their base. Furthermore, they have shown unfettered hostility 02:52:34.654 --> 02:52:40.190 - towards the targeting of immigrants and people of color, regardless of their immigration or citizenship status. 02:52:40.738 --> 02:52:45.856 - Flock cameras were initially installed in the summer and fall of 2024 and we implore the City Council 02:52:45.856 --> 02:52:50.974 - and the mayor to consider how different the landscape is now, barely a year and a half later. For any 02:52:50.974 --> 02:52:56.092 - public official who believes that there is a safe or secure way to continue this contract with Flock, 02:52:56.092 --> 02:53:01.310 - we will not accept passive wording or language about compromise to sue the conscience of our community. 02:53:01.310 --> 02:53:05.726 - We do not believe that such measures will meaningfully protect our immigrant neighbors. 02:53:05.890 --> 02:53:11.513 - With the passing of SB 76 expected to enter into state law by the end of this week, what are you going 02:53:11.513 --> 02:53:16.971 - to do, not if, but when, the state comes to collect flock data to track down the next five-year-old 02:53:16.971 --> 02:53:22.758 - child and place them in a detention center, or perhaps the child's father, whom they may never see again? 02:53:22.758 --> 02:53:28.544 - Please don't look away at what is happening in this country. Protect immigrants and protect our community 02:53:28.544 --> 02:53:31.710 - with clear, decisive action, and eliminate this contract. 02:53:37.826 --> 02:53:46.826 - Thank you very much. Next speaker at the podium. You have three minutes. Hello, my name is Niyasika 02:53:46.826 --> 02:53:56.006 - Swamy, and I'm here to ask you to divest from this FLOC contract. Some things that I have read on the 02:53:56.006 --> 02:54:02.846 - ACLU website is that they have been collaborating or coordinating with ICE. 02:54:03.746 --> 02:54:13.812 - Also, some other concerns from the Electronic Frontier Foundation is that these kinds of systems enables 02:54:13.812 --> 02:54:23.495 - surveillance of protesters, which is our right, according to the Constitution, that this regime, the 02:54:23.495 --> 02:54:29.726 - current regime, is trying to clamp down on our peaceful protest. 02:54:29.922 --> 02:54:38.765 - That also allows for biased policing and discriminatory searches, weaponizing surveillance 02:54:38.765 --> 02:54:48.580 - against reproductive rights by monitoring license plates and their travel, where they're going. This 02:54:48.580 --> 02:54:55.966 - company also has in the works, they have drones available on their website. 02:54:56.194 --> 02:55:05.211 - and we know what drones are doing right now over in the Middle East and potential for hacking from, 02:55:05.211 --> 02:55:14.679 - you know, bad characters, international, you know, other countries. Also, I just want to remind everyone 02:55:14.679 --> 02:55:23.696 - that something that Ben Franklin said, one who gives up a little bit of freedom for a little bit of 02:55:23.696 --> 02:55:25.950 - safety deserves neither. 02:55:26.274 --> 02:55:35.106 - And from what I see that what's going on in our country right now, I don't think it's the working people 02:55:35.106 --> 02:55:43.771 - that need to be surveilled. I am abiding by the Constitution. And I think the surveillers, who's going 02:55:43.771 --> 02:55:52.098 - to be surveilling them? And who's going to be keeping up with what they're doing with our personal 02:55:52.098 --> 02:55:54.622 - information? We already know. 02:55:55.074 --> 02:56:02.861 - that Elon Musk and his little doggie boys went in, they have all of our information, our social security 02:56:02.861 --> 02:56:10.647 - information, everything they know. They know everything about us. Even they're turning over voting rolls 02:56:10.647 --> 02:56:18.137 - to DC. So and then now we're gonna have them monitoring what we're talking about on the streets. And 02:56:18.137 --> 02:56:22.142 - my coming and going, if I'm going around Bloomington, 02:56:23.330 --> 02:56:31.566 - We don't need to be surveilled. We're not the ones that need to be surveilled. Thank you. Thank you 02:56:31.566 --> 02:56:38.814 - very much. Next speaker, please go ahead. You have three minutes whenever you're ready. 02:56:53.858 --> 02:57:07.986 - Maybe now. Hey Okay, no problem. My name is Robert Holm Thank you to the council members, especially 02:57:07.986 --> 02:57:22.814 - council members. Sorry for introducing this measure and council member Piedmont Smith for the amendment I 02:57:23.234 --> 02:57:29.761 - I'd like to echo the sentiments that are in both the preamble of the measure and which Council Member 02:57:29.761 --> 02:57:36.352 - Saray shared with us verbally. I particularly think that the standard that the benefits, although they 02:57:36.352 --> 02:57:42.239 - may be real, should decisively outweigh the cost to civil liberties, especially privacy, is 02:57:42.239 --> 02:57:48.830 - a very appropriate standard, and I do not believe that it is met in this case. If I had one particular 02:57:48.830 --> 02:57:49.598 - suggestion, 02:57:49.730 --> 02:57:56.296 - for the measure, although I would be happy to see it adopted with or without this. Some of the particulars 02:57:56.296 --> 02:58:02.677 - which the city and BPD are asked to report on in, I believe, section four, such as the retention period 02:58:02.677 --> 02:58:09.120 - of the data and the access controls to the data, I would love to see the city and BPD required to report 02:58:09.120 --> 02:58:15.870 - on that distinctly for how those apply to the city and its agencies, including BPD, how that applies to FLOC, 02:58:16.066 --> 02:58:22.084 - and how that applies to Flock's other customers because I think it exposes some of the concerns that 02:58:22.084 --> 02:58:28.102 - have been expressed by the other commenters if we had to provide separate answers for, for instance, 02:58:28.102 --> 02:58:34.239 - you know, the city retains our data for so long, Flock retains our data according to what they say for 02:58:34.239 --> 02:58:40.316 - so long, and Flock's other customers who may have access to that data retain it who can say how long. 02:58:40.316 --> 02:58:44.606 - What access controls are being put in place by the city versus by Flock 02:58:45.026 --> 02:58:53.885 - versus by anyone else who may legally or through hacking have access to that data. I think that clarifying 02:58:53.885 --> 02:59:02.495 - that in that way, it could be very insightful. I also appreciate what council members are, I said, that 02:59:02.495 --> 02:59:11.022 - it's important not to lose sight of crafting durable rules for ALPR and FLOC's other technologies such 02:59:11.022 --> 02:59:14.334 - as facial recognition in general due to 02:59:14.914 --> 02:59:20.828 - the specifics of one vendor and one current situation, but I do think that it's important to consider 02:59:20.828 --> 02:59:26.627 - the urgency of the current situation as well. With that in mind, I would ask the council members to 02:59:26.627 --> 02:59:32.599 - please vote in favor of this measure, to please continue to pursue this issue diligently, and say that 02:59:32.599 --> 02:59:38.456 - I personally would be very happy with both a termination of our contract with FLOC specifically, and 02:59:38.456 --> 02:59:44.254 - with very stringent measures or an outright ban on technologies like this in general going forward. 02:59:48.194 --> 02:59:53.664 - Thank you very much. Next public commenter, please remember to sign in and state your name, and you 02:59:53.664 --> 02:59:59.407 - have three minutes. Okay. Hi, my name's Kevin Pence. I live and work in Bloomington. I'm here in support 02:59:59.407 --> 03:00:04.986 - of this resolution. However, I want to be known that these proposals for simple transparency and mild 03:00:04.986 --> 03:00:10.620 - restrictions are just scratching the surface. These contracts with FLOC must end immediately. I'd like 03:00:10.620 --> 03:00:16.199 - to give you all a clear picture of the type of company the city of Bloomington, Monroe County, and IU 03:00:16.199 --> 03:00:17.566 - are all partnering with. 03:00:17.730 --> 03:00:23.291 - At the end of this last year, a YouTuber by the name of Ben Jordan and a team of technology researchers 03:00:23.291 --> 03:00:29.012 - discovered, among other things, that 60 flock condor cameras were streaming directly to the open internet. 03:00:29.012 --> 03:00:34.465 - This admin portal required absolutely no credentials to be accessed. It was not hacked. There was not 03:00:34.465 --> 03:00:39.919 - a vulnerability exposed. The portal was open for anyone and everyone to see. There you could find all 03:00:39.919 --> 03:00:46.014 - 60 cameras worth of live feeds as well as the past 30 days worth of 24-7 video recording. This vulnerability just 03:00:46.178 --> 03:00:52.843 - Was just one egregious example among many that flock failed to discover until the public pointed it 03:00:52.843 --> 03:00:59.575 - out in December of last year a PR style email went to the Bloomington Police Department from Garrett 03:00:59.575 --> 03:01:06.307 - Langley the founder and CEO of flock safety starting off with Flock has never been hacked ever Quote 03:01:06.307 --> 03:01:12.972 - the email then goes on to claim that concerned citizens are using public record requests as quote a 03:01:12.972 --> 03:01:15.038 - weapon against law enforcement 03:01:15.810 --> 03:01:22.313 - It's all nonsense to deflect from their negligence and lack of any accountability I don't trust flock 03:01:22.313 --> 03:01:28.689 - safety or any tech bro company for that matter with this type of AI enhanced searchable database of 03:01:28.689 --> 03:01:35.065 - our whereabouts There's there be these the mere existence of these cameras in an is an encroachment 03:01:35.065 --> 03:01:41.441 - and an imminent threat to our civil liberties and That is only exacerbated by the passing of Senate 03:01:41.441 --> 03:01:42.142 - bill 76 or 03:01:42.242 --> 03:01:48.156 - The implementation of government surveillance in Bloomington is step one of compliance with fascism 03:01:48.156 --> 03:01:54.129 - in advance, which is why the city should end these contracts right now. Thanks. Thank you very much. 03:01:54.129 --> 03:02:00.221 - Do we have any commenters on Zoom? I'm just going to quickly check before we move on. Is there anybody 03:02:00.221 --> 03:02:06.135 - waiting on Zoom to comment? Yes, there are two commenters. OK, we'll go to one comment on Zoom, and 03:02:06.135 --> 03:02:10.334 - then we'll come back to hearing chambers. Thank you for your patience. 03:02:10.498 --> 03:02:17.663 - All right, on Zoom, whenever you're ready, go right ahead. Hi, can you all hear me? You're good to go. 03:02:17.663 --> 03:02:24.898 - Hi, my name is Kathleen Paquette. I am a longtime resident of Bloomington. A lot of people are bringing 03:02:24.898 --> 03:02:31.855 - up a lot of really good points about flock, so I won't belabor them. But I would like to just share 03:02:31.855 --> 03:02:38.811 - a personal story. I live on a block where there is a flock camera. For the last approximately year, 03:02:38.811 --> 03:02:39.646 - this camera 03:02:40.002 --> 03:02:48.975 - has watched my comings and goings every single day. It has tracked the license plates of all of the 03:02:48.975 --> 03:02:58.576 - vehicles I share with my family. It knows what my dog looks like. We're living in a time where our current 03:02:58.576 --> 03:03:07.998 - administration has declared anti-fascists as domestic terrorists. As someone who's involved in activism, 03:03:09.730 --> 03:03:18.720 - particularly comfortable with having my cars and my face and my daily whereabouts tracked and logged 03:03:18.720 --> 03:03:27.798 - by a company with very little accountability over who has jurisdiction to that information. There are 03:03:27.798 --> 03:03:36.877 - so many really, really good, really important arguments about collaboration with ICE, but none of our 03:03:36.877 --> 03:03:39.102 - rights matter right now. 03:03:40.162 --> 03:03:46.639 - And for our city to be allowing the placement of these cameras that just continue to watch us every 03:03:46.639 --> 03:03:52.986 - single day in our current climate is just so scary. And I think it should be scary for all of us. 03:03:52.986 --> 03:03:59.462 - That said, I really appreciate this resolution. I really appreciate the work that you are all doing 03:03:59.462 --> 03:04:06.069 - right now. And I hope that the mayor is listening and I hope that we can keep this moving forward and 03:04:06.069 --> 03:04:09.566 - just completely cut this contract. Thank you so much. 03:04:13.378 --> 03:04:20.194 - Thank you very much. Coming back to here in chambers, next speaker. You may begin whenever you're ready. 03:04:20.194 --> 03:04:26.946 - You've got three minutes. Good evening, council members. I'm Liliana Young, House District 61 candidate 03:04:26.946 --> 03:04:33.438 - and a proud city commissioner. When it comes to issues of surveillance and data gathering, there is 03:04:33.438 --> 03:04:40.254 - no reason why the city never gave its residents an opportunity to weigh in on this before such a program 03:04:40.254 --> 03:04:42.526 - was put in place. It is the lowest 03:04:42.658 --> 03:04:49.609 - possible standard the city could achieve. But here we are now living in a Bloomington directly tied 03:04:49.609 --> 03:04:56.837 - to the expansion of the surveillance state, directly tied to the scraping and selling of personal data, 03:04:56.837 --> 03:05:03.996 - directly tied to the aiding and abetting of agencies like ICE, which have brought nothing but pain and 03:05:03.996 --> 03:05:06.846 - death to communities across this nation. 03:05:08.322 --> 03:05:16.631 - So since we weren't given an opportunity to weigh in on this ahead of time, I hope you are hearing us 03:05:16.631 --> 03:05:25.021 - tonight that we do not want these systems in our city, that we don't believe the benefits outweigh the 03:05:25.021 --> 03:05:33.982 - costs, and putting limitations in place simply isn't enough. Ultimately, the contract must be cut. Thank you. 03:05:39.618 --> 03:05:46.045 - Thank you very much. Coming back here in chambers, you have three minutes. You may start when you're 03:05:46.045 --> 03:05:52.663 - ready. Thank you. Hello, my name is Sereza Knox. I'm a local drag performer here in Bloomington. I came 03:05:52.663 --> 03:05:59.217 - here five years ago loving this city. The fact that Flock is here has made me hate it. And where's the 03:05:59.217 --> 03:06:05.644 - mayor for us to ask our questions? She left the room the second that this was brought up because she 03:06:05.644 --> 03:06:08.062 - is the one that signed that contract. 03:06:08.642 --> 03:06:16.884 - She is the one that allowed a dangerous tracking system into our city to keep paying attention to everybody 03:06:16.884 --> 03:06:24.745 - who has done nothing wrong. We are here to live. We are here to work. We are here to love and have our 03:06:24.745 --> 03:06:32.911 - families. And we are being stripped away from them. Mothers, fathers, children, grandparents, the elderly, 03:06:32.911 --> 03:06:37.566 - ripped away from their families, their homes, their schools. 03:06:38.050 --> 03:06:45.123 - And we are sitting here debating about whether or not this contract should be here. It should have never 03:06:45.123 --> 03:06:52.264 - been allowed to begin with. And the biggest question I have is whenever FLOC is gone and the next company 03:06:52.264 --> 03:06:59.067 - just like it comes in, is that one also going to be allowed in? And then all of us have to come back 03:06:59.067 --> 03:07:05.534 - to this room and tell every single member of this city's government that we don't want it here. 03:07:06.242 --> 03:07:14.093 - that we never wanted it here, but nobody cared what we thought to start. I am telling you now, whether 03:07:14.093 --> 03:07:21.867 - you cared before or whether you still don't now, if it becomes your family, is that the time that you 03:07:21.867 --> 03:07:26.974 - care? When it becomes your friend, is that the time that you care? 03:07:27.458 --> 03:07:34.347 - Because if you do have the passion and the care and the love for this city that you spoke about at the 03:07:34.347 --> 03:07:41.170 - beginning of this entire, what, three-hour meeting, then you would push Flock out and you never would 03:07:41.170 --> 03:07:47.925 - have signed that contract. And the mayor would have never left this room the second that it came up. 03:07:47.925 --> 03:07:54.614 - Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll have one more here in chambers and then we'll go back to Zoom 03:07:54.614 --> 03:07:56.286 - after this next speaker. 03:07:56.386 --> 03:08:03.253 - You have three minutes. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Ryan. I am a researcher at IU I just if it's 03:08:03.253 --> 03:08:09.985 - okay, I can anybody who supports canceling this contract raise their hand Okay, that's kind of what 03:08:09.985 --> 03:08:16.919 - I thought I think that's what we all thought So I was hoping that mayor Thompson would be here to hear 03:08:16.919 --> 03:08:23.988 - this but if she wants to expedite the Hopewell neighborhood then maybe she should just Cancel this flock 03:08:23.988 --> 03:08:26.142 - contract so we don't waste time 03:08:26.274 --> 03:08:33.274 - Discussing something that's objectively a violation of our privacy I think that she wants a legacy to 03:08:33.274 --> 03:08:40.342 - leave which is admirable and maybe her legacy could be the mayor that said no to bringing fascism into 03:08:40.342 --> 03:08:47.274 - Bloomington and Let's just one last thing. I want to say a little joke maybe but I think that in the 03:08:47.274 --> 03:08:49.950 - context of this federal administration 03:08:50.082 --> 03:08:58.082 - we can draw our own conclusions from flock. If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it's 03:08:58.082 --> 03:09:05.693 - literally called flock, maybe it's a fascist duck. So, thank you. All right, thank you very much. 03:09:05.693 --> 03:09:13.848 - We'll go to, I believe we have at least one more commenter on Zoom. Yeah? Paul Russo, I'm going to allow 03:09:13.848 --> 03:09:18.430 - you to repeat yourself. Thank you. You have three minutes. 03:09:20.130 --> 03:09:27.524 - Hello. Paul Rousseau, Bloomington resident. I support a complete prohibition on all ALPR technology 03:09:27.524 --> 03:09:35.140 - in Bloomington. My only contribution to the discussion is to remind or inform everyone that anyone who 03:09:35.140 --> 03:09:42.682 - uses a cell phone is already under surveillance by the US security state. Edward Snowden explained to 03:09:42.682 --> 03:09:49.854 - everyone in 2013 that the National Security Agency has a policy that was summed up by the phrase 03:09:50.306 --> 03:09:57.242 - Collected all and by all they mean all the metadata So these license plate readers would simply augment 03:09:57.242 --> 03:10:04.379 - what has already been going on Thank you Thank you very much we'll come back here in chambers next speaker 03:10:04.379 --> 03:10:11.182 - you may step up to the podium Make sure you do sign in and you have three minutes. I signed in You're 03:10:11.182 --> 03:10:17.918 - amazing Excellent. Oh, my name is price. I'm gonna keep it short because I I think you all know what 03:10:18.082 --> 03:10:25.238 - of people here think, you know, flock is bad. If you want to fight fascism, you don't want to give fascism 03:10:25.238 --> 03:10:32.327 - the infrastructure to exist. But of course, I also want to note that this mandated inquiry, this mandated 03:10:32.327 --> 03:10:39.082 - period of information from the mayor is not enough. I think the city council should do a lot more in 03:10:39.082 --> 03:10:45.503 - using its statutory power to ban something like this from ever becoming an option in this town. 03:10:45.503 --> 03:10:46.974 - That's it, thank you. 03:10:50.434 --> 03:10:58.513 - Thank you very much. Next speaker here in chambers. You may step up and begin whenever you're ready. 03:10:58.513 --> 03:11:06.912 - Hi, my name is Daisy Dinn. I agree with the stuff that all the people who spoke before me said. We don't 03:11:06.912 --> 03:11:14.990 - need a tool of tracking our movements. This surveillance technology is, we don't need that. And it's 03:11:14.990 --> 03:11:16.990 - not secure. We know that 03:11:18.178 --> 03:11:26.049 - Okay, the cops shouldn't have access to this data, but no one else should have access to the data either. 03:11:26.049 --> 03:11:33.696 - And it's not just the cops, it's ICE, it's, yeah, all sorts of independent and institutionalized forms 03:11:33.696 --> 03:11:41.196 - of fascism that have access to this data. Yeah, and we really should be encouraging the mayor, yeah, 03:11:41.196 --> 03:11:43.646 - to not be doing stuff like this. 03:11:43.970 --> 03:11:53.508 - So whatever power that the City Council has I say yeah use it. Thank you Thank you very much next speaker 03:11:53.508 --> 03:12:02.686 - here in chambers you may step up you have three minutes Hi, my name is Graham Baker. This is my first 03:12:02.686 --> 03:12:10.334 - year in Bloomington and I've already seen just how amazing this community is and the 03:12:10.498 --> 03:12:18.005 - The prospect of these automated license plate identification cameras, it really scares me, and I think 03:12:18.005 --> 03:12:25.366 - it should scare all of you. I'm sure it does scare a lot of people here. I mean, of course, the ties 03:12:25.366 --> 03:12:33.310 - to ICE are incredibly terrifying. Giving them this much information about everyone in our community, I mean, 03:12:33.538 --> 03:12:39.525 - I'm scared. I'm scared for me. I'm scared for my friends of color. I'm scared for my friends that are 03:12:39.525 --> 03:12:45.394 - international students. And I'm scared for all of the people that have lived here for years. I also 03:12:45.394 --> 03:12:51.498 - wanted to address... I can understand from a certain angle why this might seem appealing. I mean, crime 03:12:51.498 --> 03:12:57.602 - is always something to be worked. The prospect of being able to decrease crime like this can sound very 03:12:57.602 --> 03:13:00.126 - enticing, but when it comes at the cost of 03:13:00.738 --> 03:13:07.592 - All of these eyes in in the city that that's not a cost that we should be willing to pay I support and 03:13:07.592 --> 03:13:14.379 - I think I know I'm far from the only one that supports any and every step that can be taken to cancel 03:13:14.379 --> 03:13:21.300 - contracts with flock and Prevents any of this technology from existing in Bloomington Even if you think 03:13:21.300 --> 03:13:27.954 - this isn't something that will affect you and it absolutely will even if you're not concerned about 03:13:27.954 --> 03:13:29.950 - your privacy What happens if? 03:13:30.594 --> 03:13:38.447 - you're living your life, and the sorts of things that you're doing, like the places you're going, are 03:13:38.447 --> 03:13:46.301 - starting to be considered suspicious. Even if you are innocent, if you've done nothing wrong, what if 03:13:46.301 --> 03:13:54.385 - you're driving to a protest, or even through an area where a protest was committed? What if you're going 03:13:54.385 --> 03:13:56.926 - to see... I'm sorry. Any... Yes. 03:13:57.122 --> 03:14:03.896 - very easy for all of this data about you to be collected, and the fact that your license plate could 03:14:03.896 --> 03:14:10.603 - even be misidentified, you could be painted as guilty of something you didn't do because the system 03:14:10.603 --> 03:14:17.310 - didn't flag you correctly. This could happen to anyone here. I'm really passionate about this issue 03:14:17.310 --> 03:14:24.218 - to the point I walked more than 40 minutes during a thunderstorm to come to this meeting, and I'm sure 03:14:24.218 --> 03:14:25.694 - I'm not the only one, 03:14:26.466 --> 03:14:32.552 - I think that just speaks volumes to how important it is that we really and truly try and get FLOC and 03:14:32.552 --> 03:14:37.982 - any other automated license plate identification out of this community. Thank you so much. 03:14:46.978 --> 03:14:52.849 - It wasn't on that time. You have three minutes, thank you. Okay, thank you. My name is Olivia Soto. 03:14:52.849 --> 03:14:58.720 - I'm a sophomore at IU, and I'm originally from Fort Wayne, so, you know, love Indiana. And I really 03:14:58.720 --> 03:15:04.827 - appreciate, you know, your attention and this long meeting and just being here and everybody else being 03:15:04.827 --> 03:15:10.874 - here. I was in the hallway for a little bit, so I don't know exactly if this topic was brought up, but 03:15:10.874 --> 03:15:16.158 - the one thing that does concern me with any surveillance, like mass surveillance cameras, 03:15:16.290 --> 03:15:24.792 - is who runs them. And as we've seen with the Epstein files, you know, there are people that exist who 03:15:24.792 --> 03:15:33.211 - look for very horrific material and of children of people and try to get their hands in every single 03:15:33.211 --> 03:15:41.213 - large corporation. So just like, you know, Elon Musk, Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew, they're all, 03:15:41.213 --> 03:15:45.214 - you know, billionaires are very high up people. 03:15:45.922 --> 03:15:53.952 - And who's to say that the CEO or the owners of these large surveillance companies are not also involved 03:15:53.952 --> 03:16:01.983 - in that community of people who look for these horrific things of children and young people, especially 03:16:01.983 --> 03:16:09.705 - as a female student at IU. It just concerns me that these companies could be affiliated with people 03:16:09.705 --> 03:16:14.878 - like Epstein. So that's it for me. Thank you. Thank you very much. 03:16:15.394 --> 03:16:21.879 - Do we have anybody waiting on Zoom? We do. We have four hands raised right now. OK, great. We'll take 03:16:21.879 --> 03:16:28.363 - one more from Zoom at the moment, and then we'll come back here in chambers. So on Zoom, you are free 03:16:28.363 --> 03:16:35.166 - to unmute yourself. And you have three minutes. Hi, everyone. Hope you can hear me. My name is Paul Meyer. 03:16:35.714 --> 03:16:41.095 - I'm not gonna speak about the impact on minorities or constitutional and civil rights violations caused 03:16:41.095 --> 03:16:46.580 - by the cameras. I think because those points have been made and will probably be made by others. Instead, 03:16:46.580 --> 03:16:51.962 - I wanna focus on how these cameras affect people who don't worry about mass surveillance or immigration 03:16:51.962 --> 03:16:57.447 - or otherwise support their use for law enforcement. Mainly, these cameras are incredibly and demonstrably 03:16:57.447 --> 03:17:03.294 - insecure. As a previous commenter mentioned, you can find videos online that not only show their security flaws, 03:17:03.554 --> 03:17:09.322 - but that give instructions on how to access them. There is no two factor authentication in most of these 03:17:09.322 --> 03:17:14.925 - cameras that have been tested, meaning they have less security than your personal email. So what does 03:17:14.925 --> 03:17:20.583 - this mean? Anyone with basic technical ability who can follow instructions can access information such 03:17:20.583 --> 03:17:26.406 - as live camera feeds, historical data tied to vehicle and in some cases face identity, and no information 03:17:26.406 --> 03:17:31.955 - about government departments that use the system such as tracking every police squad car. This means 03:17:31.955 --> 03:17:33.438 - that such access could get 03:17:33.538 --> 03:17:39.128 - anyone the ability to stalk others, including those they know personally or in public life. It could 03:17:39.128 --> 03:17:44.828 - also allow them to target police officers or simply avoid areas where patrols may be active. Flock has 03:17:44.828 --> 03:17:50.805 - been documented being unresponsive to providing security patches when vulnerabilities have been identified, 03:17:50.805 --> 03:17:56.505 - suggesting that they are in the business of information brokering rather than security. So I would ask 03:17:56.505 --> 03:18:02.039 - that you look into these known issues yourself, consider the risks associated with this wanton mass 03:18:02.039 --> 03:18:02.814 - surveillance, 03:18:03.266 --> 03:18:09.547 - and gauge the level of accountability that this government holds when it's wielded against its citizens. 03:18:09.547 --> 03:18:15.648 - Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll come back here in chambers. We're going to start doing in every 03:18:15.648 --> 03:18:21.630 - other for now since we have a line on zoom as well now. So you may go next. You have three minutes. 03:18:42.882 --> 03:18:54.785 - Would I be able to have my time you said okay. Thank you. So yes, my name is Nicholas Heller and I know 03:18:54.785 --> 03:19:05.886 - this Meeting isn't necessarily about flock. It's about Was it a RPLs in general? and I know that 03:19:06.594 --> 03:19:15.636 - it is possible that we could use a company that uses this technology perfectly and ethically and honestly. 03:19:15.636 --> 03:19:24.170 - But as we've seen, people get greedy and it doesn't always work that way. But even if it was used in 03:19:24.170 --> 03:19:32.705 - a perfectly ethical way, I just don't think that the potential for it to be used badly significantly 03:19:32.705 --> 03:19:36.254 - outweighs the potential dangers like yes, 03:19:36.354 --> 03:19:46.878 - Being able to find stolen cars or keep people accountable for traffic violations could be helpful, but 03:19:46.878 --> 03:19:57.095 - it's not worth it in the long run. I also wanted to talk about the potential effects on the broader 03:19:57.095 --> 03:20:03.838 - United States and world. I know some of these systems use AI, and 03:20:04.066 --> 03:20:14.124 - Data centers for AI have a significant pull on electricity and water in the cities that they are in, 03:20:14.124 --> 03:20:24.381 - which causes a lot of price raising for electricity and water for homes around there. And it sometimes 03:20:24.381 --> 03:20:28.862 - steals water so people can't even, you know, 03:20:29.090 --> 03:20:37.042 - get a proper flow through their faucet. And I just think that it's important to note that the decisions 03:20:37.042 --> 03:20:44.689 - we make in Bloomington could have an effect on the broader community and humanity as a whole, and I 03:20:44.689 --> 03:20:52.335 - think that's important to note. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll move to our next commenter on 03:20:52.335 --> 03:20:53.406 - Zoom, please. 03:20:59.234 --> 03:21:05.256 - Name's Eric. I just thought I would share my experience with a flop camera. I was driving back home 03:21:05.256 --> 03:21:11.639 - to Bloomington a few months back from northern Indiana, and I was flagged by a flop camera with an errant 03:21:11.639 --> 03:21:18.143 - report on it due to a clerical error stating that I had no license and that I never had a license actually, 03:21:18.143 --> 03:21:24.465 - it seemed to say. But as a result, I was pulled over by no less than four state troopers with no violent 03:21:24.465 --> 03:21:26.814 - history. I have no record of violence. 03:21:27.202 --> 03:21:33.956 - So you can imagine how this might turn out for a targeted individual. After about 25 minutes, they did 03:21:33.956 --> 03:21:40.578 - let me go. They let me go because I had a passenger who they said had no problem with their license. 03:21:40.578 --> 03:21:47.135 - So they let her drive, but they told me that they would arrest me the next day in Bloomington if my 03:21:47.135 --> 03:21:53.758 - story of having a license ended up not being true. So anyway, that is my story. Take it as you will. 03:21:56.642 --> 03:22:03.663 - Thank you for sharing next commenter here in chambers. You can go whenever you're ready. You have three 03:22:03.663 --> 03:22:10.482 - minutes My name is Matt Gleason. I Wanted to start by saying there's no privacy preserving way to do 03:22:10.482 --> 03:22:17.571 - mass public surveillance but if the city wanted a Way to do that. I feel that the city should have taken 03:22:17.571 --> 03:22:24.862 - the responsibility for Conducting it in-house with their own cameras their own servers and put the power to 03:22:24.994 --> 03:22:32.376 - of the system and the responsibility to steward the data and the surveillance in the same hands with 03:22:32.376 --> 03:22:39.903 - stricter you know and accountability to the city and citizens and City Council as far as data use data 03:22:39.903 --> 03:22:47.724 - retention and what is done with it. I know there's an argument for these things for use to gather evidence 03:22:47.724 --> 03:22:53.278 - for use in criminal cases but I feel that if we wanted that power we should 03:22:54.274 --> 03:23:03.930 - do the work to produce that power of sales rather than outsourcing it to a company that cannot be trusted 03:23:03.930 --> 03:23:13.586 - to protect our privacy and be accountable to us. Thank you very much. We'll go back to our next commenter 03:23:13.586 --> 03:23:22.878 - on Zoom, please. Hi. This is Casey Green. I know several of you, you've heard me comment in the past. 03:23:23.906 --> 03:23:32.045 - I'd like to come from a different perspective, which is that I think this is a good first bare minimum 03:23:32.045 --> 03:23:40.106 - step and the impacts could not be, you know, overestimated. But I'd like to introduce the question of 03:23:40.106 --> 03:23:48.245 - what requires us to use the cameras? Like, let's say we can't cancel the contract because city council 03:23:48.245 --> 03:23:50.142 - can't have that impact. 03:23:51.042 --> 03:23:59.958 - It feels like we're in a sunk cost bias situation here. I would rather pay for cameras that we require 03:23:59.958 --> 03:24:08.700 - to be dismantled and stored in a storage unit than deployed. Is there something in the contract that 03:24:08.700 --> 03:24:17.356 - requires us to deploy the cameras? And if there is, that begs a very different question. So I would 03:24:17.356 --> 03:24:20.126 - say I would fully support this. 03:24:20.354 --> 03:24:30.073 - But I would also support us being more creative. And if the mayor would like to continue paying for 03:24:30.073 --> 03:24:40.375 - cameras that we have dismantled and stored, then let her account for that expenditure herself. All right. 03:24:40.375 --> 03:24:48.830 - Thank you very much. Next speaker here in chambers. You have three minutes. Thank you. 03:24:50.178 --> 03:24:55.422 - Hi, I'm Allie Sigelnik. I live and teach and study in Bloomington. 03:24:55.490 --> 03:25:01.827 - I do really appreciate the resolution once again as that first step towards transparency And given that 03:25:01.827 --> 03:25:07.921 - the mayor left I want to talk to you as the council more generally about surveillance And I also do 03:25:07.921 --> 03:25:14.319 - want to take a few seconds of my time to remind all of us that if the mayor did leave because she didn't 03:25:14.319 --> 03:25:20.595 - want to Listen to us talk about it while it is unfortunate. That doesn't mean we don't have power That 03:25:20.595 --> 03:25:25.470 - means we have so much power together that she can't even look at us talk Anyway 03:25:25.858 --> 03:25:32.461 - Not only do we need transparency, we need to divest from flock entirely and think critically 03:25:32.461 --> 03:25:39.774 - about surveillance at large. As Council person Azari opened up discussion of this resolution with ALPR 03:25:39.774 --> 03:25:42.046 - and other forms of surveillance 03:25:42.242 --> 03:25:48.852 - are most often they're advocated with in terms of public safety. And I want to remind all of you that 03:25:48.852 --> 03:25:55.397 - every time public safety gets brought up as an argument, we need to be really critical of safety for 03:25:55.397 --> 03:25:59.998 - who and who is supposedly being safer, who is being protected by this. 03:26:00.098 --> 03:26:07.693 - We know very well that when it comes to flock and many many other surveillance and policing measures, 03:26:07.693 --> 03:26:15.138 - they do not increase safety They actually increase harm and violence to many and practically all of 03:26:15.138 --> 03:26:22.584 - us And the only effect on safety in a positive way in quotes is the feelings of safety for the most 03:26:22.584 --> 03:26:24.222 - marginalized among us 03:26:24.834 --> 03:26:31.688 - And then the most direct harm and violence comes on the most marginalized, specifically with flock, 03:26:31.688 --> 03:26:38.747 - as always, black, brown, trans, disabled, immigrants, and more, and all of the many people in our very 03:26:38.747 --> 03:26:45.601 - town that occupy multiple of those categories all receive the most harm and are already affected by 03:26:45.601 --> 03:26:51.358 - the flock cameras and the other forms of surveillance we use. So while I appreciate 03:26:52.002 --> 03:26:58.306 - I appreciate as well that the resolution applies to more vendors than flock because as other people 03:26:58.306 --> 03:27:04.735 - have pointed out Other companies other programs while they may not be as cartoon cartoonishly evil as 03:27:04.735 --> 03:27:11.102 - flock They still have the ability to do very similar things and lead us to very similar scary places 03:27:11.810 --> 03:27:18.085 - So since again since the mayor is no longer in the room with us and all of you are I urge you as council 03:27:18.085 --> 03:27:24.240 - members to take any hesitancy towards flock specifically towards the specific use of cameras and apply 03:27:24.240 --> 03:27:30.455 - it to not just new forms of surveillance but the forms of surveillance that have become very normalized 03:27:30.455 --> 03:27:36.551 - to us as Various studies individual accounts and time and time again It has been proven that those do 03:27:36.551 --> 03:27:40.734 - not increase safety for the majority of us and actually increase harm 03:27:40.834 --> 03:27:51.318 - So again, thank you so much. Thank you very much. We're going to move back on over to Zoom for our next 03:27:51.318 --> 03:28:02.206 - Zoom commenter. Hi, my name is Lindsay Badger. I've lived in Bloomington for 20 years and raised kids here. 03:28:02.722 --> 03:28:10.092 - I appreciate the resolution and I also want to figure out how the city can follow with the most immediate 03:28:10.092 --> 03:28:17.671 - and simple direct action to actually terminate the contract. And we have precedent for this. Our community's 03:28:17.671 --> 03:28:24.972 - desire for the flop contract to end is not unique. We have seen similar contracts end around the country 03:28:24.972 --> 03:28:29.630 - and in our neighboring states. The town of Evansville near Chicago 03:28:30.050 --> 03:28:36.852 - had a community response with pressure like this, broke their contract, issued a cease and desist to 03:28:36.852 --> 03:28:43.586 - FLOC, and interestingly, FLOC reinstated cameras after the contract was canceled without the city's 03:28:43.586 --> 03:28:50.387 - approval. Evanston as a city then put black bags and tape over FLOC cameras throughout the city, and 03:28:50.387 --> 03:28:57.054 - this feels like a measure we could take with immediacy. Thank you. All right, thank you very much. 03:28:57.346 --> 03:29:04.214 - Speaker here in chambers you have three minutes. Thank you Hi, my name is Omar white Long-time Bloomington 03:29:04.214 --> 03:29:10.632 - resident. I want to echo everything that everyone said here. I don't support flock I don't think we 03:29:10.632 --> 03:29:17.115 - should think we should cut this contract. I appreciate that the resolution is more wide-ranging than 03:29:17.115 --> 03:29:18.334 - just flock because 03:29:18.466 --> 03:29:25.074 - another vendor could come by with something similar, and I think that this is something that does need 03:29:25.074 --> 03:29:32.002 - to be handled at a wider level. However, also I think there is urgency to get transparency on this contract 03:29:32.002 --> 03:29:38.481 - and frankly to cancel it. There's so many different reasons to not support this contract that people 03:29:38.481 --> 03:29:43.934 - have talked about. I agree with all those. One I want to reiterate is the insecurity 03:29:44.098 --> 03:29:49.734 - of Flock, these cameras have been shown to be hackable, to be insecure, to be available on the open 03:29:49.734 --> 03:29:55.707 - internet. I'm a software engineer in my day job, for whatever that's worth, I find that appalling, that's 03:29:55.707 --> 03:30:01.399 - like basic, it seems like Flock is not doing basic due diligence with their products to develop them 03:30:01.399 --> 03:30:07.204 - in a way that would be secure, regardless of the privacy violations, which are egregious, but the fact 03:30:07.204 --> 03:30:13.178 - that some guy was able to go with some security researchers and access these cameras, I believe somewhere 03:30:13.178 --> 03:30:13.854 - in Atlanta, 03:30:13.954 --> 03:30:21.394 - on the open internet, that's appalling. Come on, no basic security whatsoever. Ben Jordan was the YouTuber 03:30:21.394 --> 03:30:28.487 - who's put out a video where he worked with these security researchers to find these exploits. I would 03:30:28.487 --> 03:30:35.441 - encourage you all to go look for it. If you haven't heard about it or seen it already and watch it, 03:30:35.441 --> 03:30:42.533 - it is very egregious how insecure Flock is in addition to the privacy implications, which I think are 03:30:42.533 --> 03:30:43.646 - also egregious. 03:30:43.874 --> 03:30:53.126 - Thank you Thank you very much. We'll move back on over to our next speaker on zoom. Okay, wonderful. 03:30:53.126 --> 03:31:02.286 - Thank you. Whenever you are ready Nicole Myers you can unmute yourself and speak now Hi, I'm Nicole 03:31:02.286 --> 03:31:11.721 - I just wanted to say thanks to all the council for staying for this even though the mayor left I think 03:31:11.721 --> 03:31:13.278 - a lot of us came 03:31:13.506 --> 03:31:20.689 - mostly to talk to her. It feels like a lot of preaching to the choir. So I really appreciate that everyone 03:31:20.689 --> 03:31:27.804 - stayed so long to hear their constituents speak. I appreciate the things that some of the council members 03:31:27.804 --> 03:31:34.718 - have put out publicly about FLOC to help educate everyone and give your opinion about it. I appreciate 03:31:35.106 --> 03:31:42.007 - what the council president said about, you can't misuse data that doesn't exist. So just the more data 03:31:42.007 --> 03:31:48.171 - we're collecting on our community, the more likely we are to have it misused in the future. 03:31:48.171 --> 03:31:55.139 - And also just, I've talked to a lot of my neighbors about FLOC in general to make sure they know what's 03:31:55.139 --> 03:32:02.174 - going on, people of all sides of the political spectrum, and nobody wants it here. So that's all I have. 03:32:02.174 --> 03:32:04.318 - All right, thank you very much. 03:32:04.930 --> 03:32:13.659 - Next speaker here in chambers. Oh, yeah, that's not going to work. There's the smaller microphone. Give 03:32:13.659 --> 03:32:22.221 - it a try. You can try to pull the other one down. No, go ahead and try the other one. I'm sorry. It's 03:32:22.221 --> 03:32:31.454 - got to happen. OK, hi. My name is Kylie. I'm a professor here at IU. I'm a grad student. I don't have tenure. 03:32:31.682 --> 03:32:38.095 - You know, I teach a lot of feminist philosophies in my class. And flock really just fundamentally does 03:32:38.095 --> 03:32:44.321 - not align with any of the sort of things that I teach in my class. And unfortunately, repetition is 03:32:44.321 --> 03:32:50.672 - a really important part of learning. So I am going to repeat some of the sentiments that have already 03:32:50.672 --> 03:32:57.397 - been shared more than once tonight. I would also just like to say there's several students sort of teaching 03:32:57.397 --> 03:32:58.206 - this course. 03:32:58.594 --> 03:33:05.687 - We've sort of discussed the topic of discussing ICE. And I know Flock says that they have no sort of 03:33:05.687 --> 03:33:13.200 - ties to ICE. But if we use our critical thinking skills and rubber brains together, we can sort of connect 03:33:13.200 --> 03:33:20.223 - the dots there. And it's really alarming when professors and faculty members are afraid to broach a 03:33:20.223 --> 03:33:25.630 - topic out of fear of losing their job or being penalized for a topic that is 03:33:25.730 --> 03:33:32.500 - very incredibly important. I use a lot of feminist literature in my class. We talk a lot about Audre 03:33:32.500 --> 03:33:39.204 - Lorde, so I just wanted to share a quote from her. When we speak, we are afraid our worlds will not 03:33:39.204 --> 03:33:45.438 - be heard nor welcomed, but when we are silent, we are still afraid so it is better to speak. 03:33:45.602 --> 03:33:52.662 - You can see I'm shaking a little bit up here. I didn't plan on speaking, but this is a very, very important 03:33:52.662 --> 03:33:59.396 - issue to me. This is my first time ever coming to city council meeting. I've taught two classes today. 03:33:59.396 --> 03:34:06.260 - I've attended two classes. I'm tired as shit. It's 946. We talk about reproductive justice on Wednesday. 03:34:06.260 --> 03:34:11.294 - ICE and FLOG, these are very, very much tied to reproductive justice issues. 03:34:11.426 --> 03:34:17.137 - Directly tied to forced separation from children and their families. There's limited health care in 03:34:17.137 --> 03:34:23.420 - these ICE detention centers. There's a lack of conformed intent and historically tied to forced sterilization 03:34:23.420 --> 03:34:29.188 - and it's not going to take long if it hasn't already happened now. Flock and other mass surveillance 03:34:29.188 --> 03:34:34.900 - make it easier for ICE to abduct people off the streets. The mayor met privately with Flock. Again, 03:34:34.900 --> 03:34:37.470 - not here, but can meet privately with Flock. 03:34:37.922 --> 03:34:44.622 - Very interesting, but has not publicly committed to end Bloomington's policies. And their $250,000 contract 03:34:44.622 --> 03:34:50.887 - for already over 40 cameras. ICE relies on mass surveillance like FLOC with and without a warrant to 03:34:50.887 --> 03:34:57.339 - attack poor and immigrant communities. The only way to ensure ICE cannot access their surveillance data 03:34:57.339 --> 03:35:02.302 - is to stop collecting it all together. Thank you, this is bullshit, good night. 03:35:05.026 --> 03:35:15.347 - Thank you very much. We'll move back over to Zoom. Do we have another commenter? We are no longer anybody 03:35:15.347 --> 03:35:25.473 - in line on Zoom, so we'll go back here into chambers. Thank you very much for your patience. Very good. 03:35:25.473 --> 03:35:34.334 - Hello, my name is Seaforth. I'm a... We need the microphone on for Zoom attendees to hear. 03:35:38.914 --> 03:35:45.976 - Is there a happy middle ground we can find with the microphone height? Yes, you're good. Go ahead. Hello, 03:35:45.976 --> 03:35:52.972 - my name is Seaforth. I'm a long-time Bloomington resident. I've already spoken before the council before 03:35:52.972 --> 03:35:59.768 - at a previous meeting about one of the flaw cameras being directly over my front porch, and y'all had 03:35:59.768 --> 03:36:06.897 - mentioned in that meeting that y'all remember our points. And so I'd like to focus on a slightly different 03:36:06.897 --> 03:36:08.030 - one, which is to 03:36:08.226 --> 03:36:16.976 - circle background to our earlier discussion about Hopewell Commons, about accessibility, and about the 03:36:16.976 --> 03:36:25.557 - fact that we have a real struggle right now in our community of folks leaving it. And the reason why 03:36:25.557 --> 03:36:33.118 - I want to tie it to Flock is the idea that this security theater, this apparatus, it has 03:36:33.346 --> 03:36:41.943 - a tie-in impact to forcing people away. When folks look at Indiana or Bloomington as a specific location 03:36:41.943 --> 03:36:50.621 - to move to or to stay in during these trying times that we are going through right now, this is an aspect 03:36:50.621 --> 03:36:59.136 - of that that they look at. We can get everything else right in our community, and I've been to a couple 03:36:59.136 --> 03:37:03.230 - of different meetings now trying to give input on 03:37:03.394 --> 03:37:12.199 - the zoning or on the transit corridors, like the idea of changing college and Walnut, and those steps, 03:37:12.199 --> 03:37:20.833 - those things make an impact in bringing folks into our community, right? But if we fail on an aspect 03:37:20.833 --> 03:37:29.980 - like flock, that erases everything, right? The idea that you can have folks who would otherwise be looking 03:37:29.980 --> 03:37:31.006 - to be here, 03:37:31.426 --> 03:37:39.312 - But when they realize that, oh, I looked up Bloomington, Indiana, and in the news cycle is some abusive 03:37:39.312 --> 03:37:47.275 - flock that comes up, like many of these other communities are having right now, like mentioning Atlanta, 03:37:47.275 --> 03:37:55.540 - Georgia, or some of these smaller communities, where local officers have used flock to track ex-girlfriends. 03:37:55.540 --> 03:37:58.270 - When somebody looks up a community, 03:37:58.594 --> 03:38:07.154 - and they see that the surveillance technology is present and that it is being misused or that it is 03:38:07.154 --> 03:38:15.800 - being used exactly as intended by the folks who own these companies, which is to roll out operations 03:38:15.800 --> 03:38:24.445 - like ICE is doing, like it has a downward impact. It permanently affixes in the minds of people that 03:38:24.445 --> 03:38:28.126 - this city has compromised essential values 03:38:28.482 --> 03:38:35.821 - of freedom. And so when I think about IU as an example, where they are constantly in the news cycle 03:38:35.821 --> 03:38:43.307 - for steps they are taking to curtail academic freedom, or of calling in state troopers to drag people 03:38:43.307 --> 03:38:50.867 - out, or having drones over protesters following them to their cars. That is all people think about IU. 03:38:50.867 --> 03:38:58.206 - Thank you. Thank you. All right, next speaker here at the podium. Go ahead, you have three minutes. 03:38:58.594 --> 03:39:07.198 - All right. I got inspired by a bunch of these folks. Wonderful. Oh, I'm sorry. I just got inspired by 03:39:07.198 --> 03:39:15.802 - a bunch of these folks here to speak up about what's going on. Oh, I forgot to say my name. My name's 03:39:15.802 --> 03:39:24.237 - Akhil, and I'm a student here. And I just want to ask you something. What kind of precedent are you 03:39:24.237 --> 03:39:28.286 - trying to set here? And so far, what I've seen, 03:39:28.642 --> 03:39:36.480 - that the mayor not being here sets a precedence the precedence of cowardice it sets a precedence of 03:39:36.480 --> 03:39:44.474 - Capitulation to capital it shows that you don't that you just don't care about the civil liberties of 03:39:44.474 --> 03:39:52.312 - like the residents here and as The blue dot one of the few blue counties in this state I think that 03:39:52.312 --> 03:39:57.406 - it's your responsibility to show that you y'all have a spine and 03:39:57.698 --> 03:40:06.786 - that y'all are willing to stand up to civil injustices, to this Trump administration, to fascism. So 03:40:06.786 --> 03:40:15.784 - I just wanted to say, what do you think you should do to show that you have a spine? And I want you 03:40:15.784 --> 03:40:25.142 - to just think about that and to please, I implore you to be a role model to other counties in this area 03:40:25.142 --> 03:40:26.942 - and in other states 03:40:27.266 --> 03:40:34.293 - to fight back against these civil injustices. Thanks. Thank you very much. Do we have anybody waiting 03:40:34.293 --> 03:40:41.183 - on Zoom? Anybody else raise their hand on Zoom? All right, we'll take it back here to chambers. You 03:40:41.183 --> 03:40:48.073 - have three minutes. Thank you. Hi. My name is Dean Bolstridge. I am a freshman here at IU, and I've 03:40:48.073 --> 03:40:55.031 - been here for pretty much my entire life. And I would just like to reiterate a lot of the stuff that 03:40:55.031 --> 03:40:56.478 - we've already heard. 03:40:56.674 --> 03:41:06.538 - urge you to take as much action as you can as with the motions that you have already put in place with 03:41:06.538 --> 03:41:16.307 - the the transparency the urging of transparency with these cameras is very valuable as well as as the 03:41:16.307 --> 03:41:24.926 - president has stated about how it is important to properly implement technology like this 03:41:25.794 --> 03:41:33.926 - I would like to urge the importance of taking as much action as possible right now, as all of that would 03:41:33.926 --> 03:41:41.748 - be very valuable if they were not already here. The cameras are already in Bloomington, and as we've 03:41:41.748 --> 03:41:49.726 - heard from that Zoom caller, are already taking negative effects. And I just think that that is really 03:41:49.726 --> 03:41:53.598 - horrible that we were not able to take this along 03:41:54.722 --> 03:42:02.325 - egregious process to properly implement things as We should be able to and Yeah, I urge you to take 03:42:02.325 --> 03:42:09.929 - as much action as possible and In your power and I'm really really sad to see that the mayor is not 03:42:09.929 --> 03:42:17.912 - here to hear all of this. Thank you All right, thank you very much next speaker here in chambers, please 03:42:17.912 --> 03:42:21.790 - step up you have three minutes Thank you very much 03:42:24.994 --> 03:42:33.874 - Hello everyone, my name is Benjamin Arrington and I'm serving running to serve as your next prosecuting 03:42:33.874 --> 03:42:42.754 - attorney for Monroe County Benjamin Franklin as I'm fond of the name Once said that those who are Those 03:42:42.754 --> 03:42:51.635 - who would give up their essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty 03:42:51.635 --> 03:42:52.574 - nor safety 03:42:53.826 --> 03:43:00.887 - And when I think of flock cameras and I think about every time you step out of your house and you drive 03:43:00.887 --> 03:43:07.744 - your car, you're being supervised, we need to say no to flock. I wanna thank the council for staying 03:43:07.744 --> 03:43:15.008 - late to listen to all of these public comments and I wanna thank all of the people who are here to support 03:43:15.008 --> 03:43:21.118 - their voice and to let the elected officials know that you care and you're here to speak. 03:43:21.410 --> 03:43:28.935 - So power to the people. Thank you for being here tonight. Thank you for everyone. And let's be a bright 03:43:28.935 --> 03:43:36.242 - star to be a blue dot in our red desert. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Did we have another 03:43:36.242 --> 03:43:43.550 - speaker here in chambers? No? Doesn't look like it. OK. Anybody on Zoom with their hand raised? Have 03:43:43.550 --> 03:43:48.542 - we reached the end of the line? Any last takers? It's OK. All right. 03:43:48.866 --> 03:43:55.819 - So we're done with public comment. Thank you all very very much for sharing your insights and your passion 03:43:55.819 --> 03:44:02.318 - I Know we really appreciated hearing from all of you. So thank you very much. So now we're going to 03:44:02.318 --> 03:44:08.751 - move to Councilmember comment councilmember Zulek question All right. Do we have a second? Second. 03:44:08.751 --> 03:44:13.950 - All right. We have a motion to call to question. Is this debatable? I think not 03:44:20.450 --> 03:44:37.696 - So I guess we take a vote on this now right if we call to question we just vote Clerk Williamson, would 03:44:37.696 --> 03:44:45.822 - you mind calling the roll? Yes, sorry, yes daily 03:44:48.258 --> 03:45:01.830 - Yes Rallo Point of order this is a Calling the question without debate on the resolution Right, we're 03:45:01.830 --> 03:45:15.934 - voting whether or not we're gonna vote right now, okay. All right. I appreciate the clarification then so 03:45:19.042 --> 03:45:31.827 - Call to question councilmember. Sorry seconded it. So we're voting on calling to question Call the question 03:45:31.827 --> 03:45:43.784 - then we have to vote Do I never write to that's what call the question is It's not debatable yes for 03:45:43.784 --> 03:45:48.638 - the yes, I support the resolution That's 03:45:50.370 --> 03:46:00.918 - May I change my vote then? So what are we voting on? I think there was a motion to call the question 03:46:00.918 --> 03:46:12.301 - and that's being voted on at this point. I moved to call the question. We're voting on calling the question. 03:46:12.301 --> 03:46:16.478 - Madam Clerk, may I change my vote then? 03:46:18.722 --> 03:46:24.204 - I've never experienced that. So I don't know enough to say no. Can we just restart the vote? Yeah, I 03:46:24.204 --> 03:46:29.848 - think that would be the best option. Yes, let's restart the vote. Thank you. We did that the other week 03:46:29.848 --> 03:46:35.547 - where some members changed their mind and we re-voted. So let's start the vote from the beginning again. 03:46:35.547 --> 03:46:40.975 - Councilmember Stossberg. Can I just clarify, because I think that there's some confusion up here. I 03:46:40.975 --> 03:46:46.782 - believe that we need a two-thirds majority to call the question. Is that correct, Council-Attorney Layner? 03:46:48.194 --> 03:46:54.652 - Roberts for this Because I mean it's basically saying we're stopping debate and we're gonna vote on 03:46:54.652 --> 03:47:01.175 - the ordinance right now without any time for councilmember comment So that's what we're voting on if 03:47:01.175 --> 03:47:05.438 - we vote. Yes, then we're not gonna have any councilmember comment 03:47:05.794 --> 03:47:13.416 - Any further discussion we're just going to vote on the actual resolution and if we vote no Then we want 03:47:13.416 --> 03:47:21.477 - to have some kind of a comment. It is a two-thirds vote required to adopt Thank you. And so it's a two-thirds 03:47:21.477 --> 03:47:28.805 - majority needs to approve Voting right now without additional opportunity for councilmember comment 03:47:28.805 --> 03:47:32.030 - So we asked what happens if it doesn't pass 03:47:32.226 --> 03:47:40.394 - Then then we can have debate like we could have closing councilmember comments, for example, okay So 03:47:40.394 --> 03:47:48.481 - on the table we have call to question, so we're going to vote on that now That is what we're voting 03:47:48.481 --> 03:47:56.650 - on whether or not we're going to vote Thank you. All right councilmember P. Monsmith. No Zulik. Yes. 03:47:56.650 --> 03:48:01.502 - Sorry. Yes, Daley. Yes, brah. No rough. No Rosenberger. Yes 03:48:02.114 --> 03:48:11.453 - Yes Salzburg no So it fails five to four if I have that correct so then we Move to bait final comments. 03:48:11.453 --> 03:48:20.613 - I'm going to enforce our rule that we never enforce which is we have seven minutes total if that's If 03:48:20.613 --> 03:48:26.270 - we're ready for that we have do we have a seven-minute timer I 03:48:26.882 --> 03:48:33.851 - Five and then two five and then two for follow-ups. So it's a seven total councilmember Stossberg. I 03:48:33.851 --> 03:48:40.821 - just really I wanted to have an opportunity to comment because I feel like that gives respect to the 03:48:40.821 --> 03:48:42.270 - many many people who 03:48:42.562 --> 03:48:49.024 - came out and commented. So I at least wanted to say thank you all for coming out and commenting and 03:48:49.024 --> 03:48:55.744 - expressing to us your thoughts on that. And second, I wanted to take just a minute to talk a very short 03:48:55.744 --> 03:49:02.270 - minute about my personal evolution on how I feel about FLOC. Because six, seven months ago, I really 03:49:02.270 --> 03:49:05.566 - appreciate how several commenters kind of had that 03:49:05.666 --> 03:49:12.948 - That you know in my mind it became a scale of benefit on one side and consequence on the other so six 03:49:12.948 --> 03:49:20.373 - seven months ago I was like, well, I think the benefits are there and then that slowly started to shift 03:49:20.373 --> 03:49:28.012 - and and it has shifted most dramatically recently with I think it's SB 76 requiring local law enforcements 03:49:28.012 --> 03:49:32.510 - to cooperate with with federal immigration officers and and if 03:49:32.610 --> 03:49:41.289 - I had confidence that our federal immigration officers were actually acting as responsible law enforcement 03:49:41.289 --> 03:49:49.725 - officers who were protecting the rights of individuals, then maybe that would be okay, but I don't have 03:49:49.725 --> 03:49:52.158 - confidence in that right now. 03:49:52.354 --> 03:49:59.171 - Benefit consequence shift has you know been slowly changing But that was one thing that it just kind 03:49:59.171 --> 03:50:05.988 - of pretty immediately like pushed me over the edge because we can't share it if we don't have it and 03:50:05.988 --> 03:50:13.345 - it makes everybody less safe, so I appreciate getting the chance to say that because you know I've responded 03:50:13.345 --> 03:50:20.094 - to a couple emails that a couple of things because I'm liking I'm I'm learning about this issue and 03:50:20.386 --> 03:50:26.222 - I feel about it is shifting and I feel like that that has been a dramatic like few months of change 03:50:26.222 --> 03:50:32.175 - and evolution in terms of understanding security issues I love that our software developer over there 03:50:32.175 --> 03:50:38.128 - pointing out security issues because I Also have lived. I've been married to a software developer for 03:50:38.128 --> 03:50:43.964 - 20 years So that is just a regular thing And so I just I really appreciate everybody coming out and 03:50:43.964 --> 03:50:47.582 - and sharing their viewpoint. So thank you very much Thank you 03:50:48.386 --> 03:50:55.120 - Thanks, I appreciate everyone staying in the late hour and I really appreciate you all speaking out 03:50:55.120 --> 03:51:02.056 - in support of civil liberties So many good comments this evening had it quite an impact on me actually 03:51:02.056 --> 03:51:09.194 - Remembering such things as the Patriot Act which this council opposed back in 2003 and just this steadily 03:51:09.194 --> 03:51:16.197 - normalization of government secrecy erosion free speech dissenters being targeted all that contextually 03:51:16.197 --> 03:51:17.342 - is important and 03:51:17.986 --> 03:51:27.113 - So we're essentially living in a society where total surveillance is the goal and It is real that is 03:51:27.113 --> 03:51:36.420 - the hallmark of the totalitarian state So to whatever extent we can push back we have to do it I Don't 03:51:36.420 --> 03:51:46.270 - want to live in a digital panopticon. I don't think anyone should So I appreciate this council resolution my 03:51:46.498 --> 03:51:54.185 - Our council president sorry his resolution very well thought out wonder if it goes far enough I think 03:51:54.185 --> 03:52:01.871 - that the case has been made tonight that we don't need this we don't need flock cameras and we should 03:52:01.871 --> 03:52:09.784 - think of defunding it and So that's what I look to is the next step. Thank you Any other council comment 03:52:09.784 --> 03:52:12.798 - down this end councilmember Rosenberger 03:52:13.282 --> 03:52:20.142 - I don't always tend to talk a lot because I think we have all been here a really long time So it gets 03:52:20.142 --> 03:52:27.204 - harder to find it useful in the end. I Love what a lot of you said and I agree that this next step needs 03:52:27.204 --> 03:52:33.997 - to be an ordinance and not just a resolution we have a long list is getting longer of a history with 03:52:33.997 --> 03:52:35.678 - this administration that 03:52:36.194 --> 03:52:43.460 - Doesn't necessarily do what council intends we have ordinances that aren't really getting followed already 03:52:43.460 --> 03:52:50.454 - So I think a resolution is a great first step and it's clear that this is what the community wants and 03:52:50.454 --> 03:52:57.788 - we should just push it forward to make it More real. Thank you. Thank you any other council member comments 03:52:57.788 --> 03:52:59.486 - council member Stossberg 03:53:00.258 --> 03:53:06.471 - I'm sorry. This is my second two minutes But I feel like I would be remiss to also add something that 03:53:06.471 --> 03:53:12.744 - I didn't hear tonight that I want to make sure that I Go on the record as supporting and what I didn't 03:53:12.744 --> 03:53:18.835 - hear was residents saying we're scared that our police department is misusing this data because I'm 03:53:18.835 --> 03:53:21.150 - did I hear that a little bit I I feel 03:53:21.858 --> 03:53:28.058 - some trust in our police department that they are not misusing this data in terms of the procedures 03:53:28.058 --> 03:53:34.321 - and protocols that they have to go through within their department in order to get it and that's the 03:53:34.321 --> 03:53:40.955 - part that is you know, but like I said the consequence of having to cooperate of not having secure cameras 03:53:40.955 --> 03:53:47.218 - like outweighs that but I just wanted to like I support our officers in their intentions around this 03:53:47.218 --> 03:53:50.814 - technology that is problematic any other council comments 03:53:51.618 --> 03:53:57.274 - Councilmember Flaherty and then councilmember Piedmont Smith right after that Yeah, just briefly also 03:53:57.274 --> 03:54:03.206 - to say thank you to folks for speaking up for being here for emailing us contacting us I think reiterating 03:54:03.206 --> 03:54:09.084 - this is a step. It's a next step in the development of durable rules that can be well crafted Information 03:54:09.084 --> 03:54:15.294 - gathering is part of that. I think it's really important for us to that step and especially do it formally with 03:54:15.522 --> 03:54:20.556 - Request the information from the mayor formally from the police chief formally, which are their statutory 03:54:20.556 --> 03:54:25.352 - obligation to provide to us As when we request that information in fact in my six years of service I 03:54:25.352 --> 03:54:29.673 - think this is the first time we've gone through the step of using a resolution to formally 03:54:29.673 --> 03:54:34.517 - request information Because the structure and the details of it are important in that way. So I don't 03:54:34.517 --> 03:54:39.266 - think that's the end I think it's the next step in the process to developing local rules, which are 03:54:39.266 --> 03:54:42.590 - the council's responsibility And a legislative purview. So, thank you 03:54:51.010 --> 03:54:57.841 - I really appreciate everybody staying late and sharing, especially your personal experiences and your 03:54:57.841 --> 03:55:04.672 - different perspectives on the flock cameras. I have already come out publicly a month ago against the 03:55:04.672 --> 03:55:11.503 - flock contract. I'll just read a couple paragraphs from my letter to Mayor Thompson on February 12th. 03:55:11.503 --> 03:55:19.070 - As local elected officials, we have many responsibilities, including to uphold the civil rights of all residents 03:55:19.426 --> 03:55:25.278 - hold criminals to account, and support an environment in which people feel secure. Meanwhile, we live 03:55:25.278 --> 03:55:30.670 - in a country where Department of Homeland Security agents and agencies have both individually 03:55:30.670 --> 03:55:36.407 - and systematically violated free speech rights, used violence to intimidate and kill protesters out 03:55:36.407 --> 03:55:42.259 - of all proportion to threats to their own safety, ignored legal due process, and sown fear throughout 03:55:42.259 --> 03:55:47.996 - hundreds of neighborhoods. It is in this context that I write to you regarding the city's contracts 03:55:47.996 --> 03:55:49.086 - with Flock Safety, 03:55:49.602 --> 03:55:55.631 - For automatic license plate readers and other security camera systems, collecting license plate data 03:55:55.631 --> 03:56:01.601 - and or other individually identifiable data puts our residents at risk, since there's no way we can 03:56:01.601 --> 03:56:07.988 - guarantee that data collected by a third party will not be misused, nor can we guarantee that the security 03:56:07.988 --> 03:56:14.197 - of this data won't be compromised. FLOC safety in particular has a poor record in these areas. And then 03:56:14.197 --> 03:56:19.390 - I give various examples, some of them that were mentioned tonight, where FLOC has been 03:56:19.490 --> 03:56:28.154 - bad actor So I I mean I agree I agree with my colleagues that we need more information about our contract 03:56:28.154 --> 03:56:36.328 - in particular I'm very skeptical that that will change my mind as far as my opinion That we need to 03:56:36.328 --> 03:56:42.622 - end the contract But I do appreciate councilmember. I'm sorry writing a very 03:56:43.298 --> 03:56:50.238 - Well thought out resolution as a first step and and we will have further steps after this. Thank you 03:56:50.238 --> 03:56:57.247 - All right, thank you very much now we're gonna move over to councilmember rough has a quick something 03:56:57.247 --> 03:57:04.119 - I just want to say not only did I really appreciate hearing all the comments from the public I also 03:57:04.119 --> 03:57:09.822 - enjoyed hearing the comments at the end of the meeting here from my colleagues and 03:57:10.402 --> 03:57:18.433 - this resolution and about what we might do next and I will always just for future reference I will always 03:57:18.433 --> 03:57:26.010 - vote for more opportunities for councilmembers to make comments if they have something to say and I 03:57:26.010 --> 03:57:34.117 - want to thank councilmember sorry and councilmember Smith, but councilmember sorry has some real expertise 03:57:34.117 --> 03:57:40.254 - and background in this general area of technology use of it and misuse of it and 03:57:40.770 --> 03:57:49.882 - So when I when he very early on Made it clear that he was taking interest in in taking an action for 03:57:49.882 --> 03:57:59.083 - the council or sponsoring an action or council I had a lot of confidence in in what he would he would 03:57:59.083 --> 03:58:02.782 - do and what we'll do next. So, thank you 03:58:03.266 --> 03:58:10.333 - Thank you all so much council members and to the public for being here, for staying here. Again, we 03:58:10.333 --> 03:58:15.774 - moved pretty quick, generally speaking, but thankful for your patience here. 03:58:15.874 --> 03:58:22.494 - One thing that I'll note is, I think, the broader context, I think, in which all of this is happening. 03:58:22.494 --> 03:58:28.920 - I think there were a couple of comments that noted, for example, that we live in a society where me 03:58:28.920 --> 03:58:35.476 - having access to your telephone number, I can violate a lot more of your privacy than I might be able 03:58:35.476 --> 03:58:42.096 - to with an ALPR system. Okay, so we're talking, we're not overreacting here to one type of technology, 03:58:42.096 --> 03:58:45.566 - but to me, there's a broader question here, which is, 03:58:46.210 --> 03:58:47.390 - Right now... 03:58:47.618 --> 03:58:53.743 - We're also living in a time where there's something like 300 new AI apps coming onto the market, like 03:58:53.743 --> 03:58:59.749 - commercial market, every single day at the moment. And cities really cannot keep pace with the pace 03:58:59.749 --> 03:59:05.814 - of change in technology. And I think what concerns me as using Flock as a case study here is that we 03:59:05.814 --> 03:59:11.999 - sort of slid into a relationship with a company where it was just sort of like, well, they're the only 03:59:11.999 --> 03:59:17.584 - one to do it, I guess, because they were the first one that said hi, right, which is sort of 03:59:17.584 --> 03:59:25.556 - I met my wife when I was 15. She was the first girlfriend I had, because she was the first person that 03:59:25.556 --> 03:59:33.527 - spoke to me. And we've been together ever since. But living in a time where you just slide into fairly 03:59:33.527 --> 03:59:41.577 - serious commitments that then increase. It starts with one, and then two, and then you have 40, without 03:59:41.577 --> 03:59:47.536 - us ever thinking about that. And so I think Linus's law says that if there's 03:59:47.536 --> 03:59:53.684 - a lot of eyeballs, then every bug will be shallow. And so I really think that what we need to do as 03:59:53.684 --> 03:59:59.893 - a university town with so much expertise, with so much interest is to create the mechanisms by which 03:59:59.893 --> 04:00:03.582 - all types of engagements that we may do as a city, not just 04:00:03.682 --> 04:00:09.498 - right now, but for the next 10, 20, 30 years, that it gives us as a community the opportunity to govern, 04:00:09.498 --> 04:00:15.314 - the opportunity to speak, because ultimately that's what local government is about. And so, again, thank 04:00:15.314 --> 04:00:20.687 - you for demonstrating all of that today. This is, you know, nerdy and fun. But more importantly, 04:00:20.687 --> 04:00:26.392 - it's about, you know, critical issues about what it means to be an American in a digital society, what 04:00:26.392 --> 04:00:31.986 - it means to be a resident in the United States in a digital society. So just so, so grateful for all 04:00:31.986 --> 04:00:33.648 - of your earnest participation 04:00:33.648 --> 04:00:40.762 - today. Thank you. Well it's practically impossible to follow up what President Asari said and sound 04:00:40.762 --> 04:00:48.161 - any better than him but I just wanted to just I'll take a brief moment then too and just say I'm really 04:00:48.161 --> 04:00:50.366 - really grateful to all of you. 04:00:50.594 --> 04:00:56.611 - For being here, for speaking so passionately, each and every single one of you said something that spoke 04:00:56.611 --> 04:01:02.457 - to my heart and that I agreed with, and I found common sense in everything. It's very, very scary for 04:01:02.457 --> 04:01:08.302 - us as a body to sit up here in front of a big angry crowd. Whether you're here because you agree with 04:01:08.302 --> 04:01:14.090 - us or not, it's still scary. So I really appreciate you guys coming out and sharing your hearts with 04:01:14.090 --> 04:01:17.758 - us, and I am looking forward to this just being the first step. 04:01:17.858 --> 04:01:27.273 - Because I think we can move on to bigger and better things and we're gonna we're gonna all band together 04:01:27.273 --> 04:01:36.330 - and make this world better So thank you with that. Let's move to a vote on resolution 20 2604. Thank 04:01:36.330 --> 04:01:46.014 - you Councilmember Zulek. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Daily. Yes, Rallo. Yes rough. Yes, Rosenberger. Yes Flaherty. Yes 04:01:46.978 --> 04:01:55.198 - Stalsberg yes, you don't miss yes That passes unanimously nine to zero gavel back to president. Sorry. Thank you 04:02:04.386 --> 04:02:09.831 - All right, two more things to go, y'all. We have one more additional period of public comment. And so 04:02:09.831 --> 04:02:15.384 - this is a maximum of 25 minutes allotted. If you have not commented in the first section, which I don't 04:02:15.384 --> 04:02:21.096 - think anybody did, but if you'd like to comment on things that were not on the agenda, now is your chance. 04:02:21.096 --> 04:02:26.595 - Again, please sign in, say your name or alias, and we will recognize you. Is there anybody in chambers 04:02:26.595 --> 04:02:32.254 - who would like to give a comment on something not on the agenda? Seeing none, is there anyone online? No. 04:02:32.610 --> 04:02:42.052 - There is no one online, then we move ahead to issues of council schedule. A very quick thing, so on 04:02:42.052 --> 04:02:48.190 - March 11th, everyone, is our deliberation session. I'm asking... 04:02:48.354 --> 04:02:56.496 - Please tell me your opinions here if we can do a special session just a 30-minute special session To 04:02:56.496 --> 04:03:04.718 - act on some deliberations by the hiring committee At six o'clock. So just appending a special session 04:03:04.718 --> 04:03:13.182 - to our Session is that okay? with Please that councilmember Rosenberg I guess I just don't ever think it 04:03:13.826 --> 04:03:24.169 - 30-minute meeting is okay. I mean we have to be here at 630 So then we have to kind of leave at 620. 04:03:24.169 --> 04:03:35.025 - I do think 530 is better Okay, I I'm not opposed to that if Does anybody feel the same? Councilman Rizouk 04:03:35.025 --> 04:03:43.422 - has trouble getting maybe we may 545 with that suffice The day before right, okay 04:03:43.586 --> 04:03:54.014 - Okay, so 545 Anybody opposed Okay, everybody. So we'll we'll I'll work with the clerk and council staff and 04:03:54.082 --> 04:04:01.592 - the waning moments to get that scheduled. But I'm so, so very grateful. And again, echoing the comments 04:04:01.592 --> 04:04:08.957 - of Council Member Stosberg earlier, we are so very grateful for Attorney Lehner and Attorney Bennett. 04:04:08.957 --> 04:04:16.466 - This is their last public meeting with us. Thank you for your service to the council. Thank you to your 04:04:16.466 --> 04:04:24.048 - service to the city of Bloomington. And we hope that you continue to be vibrant participants. We'll look 04:04:24.048 --> 04:04:34.623 - for you on the online comments. But we're so very grateful for everything that you've done. So everybody, 04:04:34.623 --> 04:04:45.598 - please join me in applauding. With that, any other issues of council schedule? Seeing none, we are adjourned.