WEBVTT 00:00:00.226 --> 00:00:09.246 - Welcome everybody It is Wednesday May 20th and you're at the greatest place to be on a Wednesday night 00:00:09.246 --> 00:00:18.267 - Disneyworld no, I'm at a City Council meeting. We welcome you to this City Council meeting I will call 00:00:18.267 --> 00:00:27.025 - it to order and will the honorable clerk stole please call the roll Councilmember Flaherty Stasburg 00:00:27.025 --> 00:00:29.214 - here Piedmont Smith here 00:00:29.730 --> 00:00:40.632 - Zulek, here. Asari? Here. Daly? Here. Rallo? Here. Ruff? Here. Rosenberger? Here. Thank you so much. 00:00:40.632 --> 00:00:44.734 - Today the meeting agenda is posted on 00:00:44.834 --> 00:00:52.813 - both sides, and so you can access this remotely online. We have a sort of standard meeting where we'll 00:00:52.813 --> 00:01:00.560 - be approving some minutes, I believe. We have some reports from council members, the mayor, offices 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:08.462 - of different commissions, and then we'll have some appointments, boards, and commissions. We have one 00:01:08.462 --> 00:01:14.814 - piece of legislation for first reading and four pieces of legislation. I'm sorry. 00:01:14.978 --> 00:01:25.374 - Lots of legislation for second reading. And so with that, I will stop delaying. Do we have any minutes 00:01:25.374 --> 00:01:36.174 - for approval? No. No. OK, thank you so much. So we will move on right into reports. Do any council members 00:01:36.174 --> 00:01:43.038 - have any reports? Council member Stasberg. Thank you. Good evening. 00:01:44.194 --> 00:01:50.813 - I just wanted to say that tomorrow is the last day of school for MCCSE students. Yes, hallelujah in 00:01:50.813 --> 00:01:57.630 - my house right now. But I just wanted to congratulate all students, teachers, administrators, parents, 00:01:57.630 --> 00:02:03.985 - all of the other staff members and buildings that make our schools go and bus drivers and other 00:02:03.985 --> 00:02:07.294 - transportation specialists, et cetera, et cetera. 00:02:07.394 --> 00:02:14.342 - As a parent of two high schoolers, it feels every year like it's been a long year, and then every summer 00:02:14.342 --> 00:02:21.289 - will feel like a long summer. But I just wanted to make sure to send those well wishes out to everybody, 00:02:21.289 --> 00:02:28.105 - and I hope everybody has a great last day tomorrow, or at least last student day tomorrow, and special 00:02:28.105 --> 00:02:35.582 - congratulations to all of the graduating seniors and their parents who have stuck with it for a number of years. 00:02:36.130 --> 00:02:44.275 - Yeah so that is what I wanted to say. I also wanted to mention that I do have some open office hours 00:02:44.275 --> 00:02:47.742 - coming up. They are on my public calendar. 00:02:47.842 --> 00:02:54.565 - Next Saturday the 30th of May you can sign up for 15 minutes with councilmember Stossberg I'm doing 00:02:54.565 --> 00:03:01.355 - that at the farmers market in the morning between 930 and 1130 So if you have anything that you want 00:03:01.355 --> 00:03:08.145 - to chat with me about you can find that link on my page And if you're not sure where to find it, you 00:03:08.145 --> 00:03:15.002 - can email me and I'll help you out. Thanks Thank you so much councilmember P. Smith Yes, good evening 00:03:15.002 --> 00:03:17.758 - I wanted to talk just a little bit about 00:03:18.658 --> 00:03:27.136 - The land that was purchased for the Convention Center project by the Monroe County Commissioners several 00:03:27.136 --> 00:03:35.938 - years ago, and that is in process of being deeded over to the Capital Improvement Board, which is overseeing 00:03:35.938 --> 00:03:44.497 - the Convention Center expansion. That is the land to the south and west of the current Convention Center. 00:03:44.497 --> 00:03:47.646 - It includes Seminary Point Apartments. 00:03:47.778 --> 00:03:59.099 - and several local businesses, including the Friendly Beast Cider and Blue Tip Billiards. And we received 00:03:59.099 --> 00:04:10.528 - a memo from a coalition of Bloomington Homes for All and the Bloomington Democratic Socialists of America 00:04:10.528 --> 00:04:16.350 - Housing Working Group a couple of days ago. They have 00:04:17.378 --> 00:04:26.601 - they're trying to figure out how they can preserve and even expand the affordable housing and commercial 00:04:26.601 --> 00:04:35.737 - space at Seminary Point, which has a very uncertain future given that it will soon be owned by the CIB, 00:04:35.737 --> 00:04:44.609 - and they are not in the business of renting property. They're in the business of building convention 00:04:44.609 --> 00:04:46.014 - center. So I've 00:04:46.178 --> 00:04:53.835 - Talked with some colleagues about about this. We have a very limited role in this whole discussion because 00:04:53.835 --> 00:05:00.990 - Of course the CIB will own that property The property that the CIB is interested in for a hotel for 00:05:00.990 --> 00:05:08.289 - the Convention Center is owned by the Bloomington redevelopment Commission So it's also not under our 00:05:08.289 --> 00:05:14.014 - control But I think that they have proffered a very interesting plan and a very 00:05:14.338 --> 00:05:25.261 - a really great innovative vision for that little mini neighborhood in the future as being a space of 00:05:25.261 --> 00:05:36.185 - cultural and social gathering and real truly low income housing. And if there is a way that that can 00:05:36.185 --> 00:05:42.782 - be facilitated by this body, I'm open to do so. I think that 00:05:43.650 --> 00:05:52.997 - the land swap that has been proposed. So the C.I.B. is interested in the land at College Square owned 00:05:52.997 --> 00:06:02.526 - by the R.D.C. to put the convention center hotel and R.D.C. as issued a call for proposals to sell that 00:06:02.526 --> 00:06:12.606 - land. So it's been suggested that the summit point and other parcels that the C.I.B. owns or will own shortly 00:06:13.026 --> 00:06:22.048 - be traded for the college square site land. Now those those parcels are of vastly different value. So 00:06:22.048 --> 00:06:31.335 - I think the the almost seven million dollars the RDC paid for the college square site should be recouped 00:06:31.335 --> 00:06:40.446 - in some degree. But I think there should also be some flexibility to see if we can make this vision of 00:06:40.738 --> 00:06:48.766 - low income housing and community space of reality. So I'll be working with colleagues to see if we can 00:06:48.766 --> 00:06:56.637 - come up with a unified message to relate to the RDC which of course is a partner organization within 00:06:56.637 --> 00:07:04.665 - the city itself to see if we can if we can make this work. I was at the CIB meeting today and they are 00:07:04.665 --> 00:07:08.094 - extending the leases for the commercial and 00:07:08.930 --> 00:07:15.961 - Residential tenants until the end of August so that gives a little more breathing room. They were supposed 00:07:15.961 --> 00:07:22.992 - to Terminate in July and Jeff's warehouse gets until the end of September due to Particular circumstances, 00:07:22.992 --> 00:07:29.826 - so we have a little more time and I look forward to working on this in the weeks ahead. Thank you Thank 00:07:29.826 --> 00:07:32.126 - you so much councilmember Flaherty 00:07:32.802 --> 00:07:38.846 - Thank you. I also had a report this evening, also involving College Square, believe it or not, by way 00:07:38.846 --> 00:07:44.950 - of follow-up from our deliberation session last week, which was about snow removal on pedestrian paths 00:07:44.950 --> 00:07:50.876 - and sidewalks throughout the city, which has been a persistent challenge. And kind of the worse the 00:07:50.876 --> 00:07:56.920 - snow events are, the worse of a challenge it is. So this year was especially bad, but it's not unique 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.646 - to this year. In fact, we face it most years. 00:07:59.874 --> 00:08:05.844 - So just thanks to the members of the public who came out and gave really unique and helpful insights 00:08:05.844 --> 00:08:12.109 - based on their experience. Also to the council members who were able to join and colleagues who couldn't. 00:08:12.109 --> 00:08:18.020 - Happy to chat with you about it. Also Transportation Commissioner Boland and Casey Guarino from the 00:08:18.020 --> 00:08:24.108 - Council for Community Accessibility. We are looking at kind of across operations, resourcing or budget 00:08:24.108 --> 00:08:25.822 - and policy or city code what 00:08:25.922 --> 00:08:31.278 - types of improvements we can make. I think there will be opportunities in all of those areas. Going 00:08:31.278 --> 00:08:36.903 - to be coordinating with at least council members Stossberg and Daly on some of that. And wanted to note, 00:08:36.903 --> 00:08:42.366 - just because it was an interesting tidbit and follow-up and just helpful for your information, we did 00:08:42.366 --> 00:08:47.776 - talk about the College Square property because we noted that even city-owned properties sometimes we 00:08:47.776 --> 00:08:49.758 - don't end up clearing the sidewalks. 00:08:49.954 --> 00:08:55.315 - and Director Colleen Hanson reached out and let me know, she listened in to the meeting, which she hadn't 00:08:55.315 --> 00:09:00.372 - attended live, which I appreciate that she was checking it out, and just let me know that there was 00:09:00.372 --> 00:09:05.480 - a lease executed with College Square for Weddell Ruther's construction, for construction management, 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:10.537 - I guess, that puts them in charge of snow removal and mowing, and so she said that any gaps in snow 00:09:10.537 --> 00:09:15.645 - removal were not on the RDC, it was the tenant. But that was an issue we highlighted that isn't just 00:09:15.645 --> 00:09:19.134 - unique to the city, it's actually something that the hand department 00:09:19.298 --> 00:09:25.210 - has trouble navigating when landlords say, look, it's not my responsibility, my lease says that my tenant 00:09:25.210 --> 00:09:30.956 - has to take care of the snow removal. So it was a bit interesting that the RDC itself was here through 00:09:30.956 --> 00:09:36.701 - Director Killian Hanson saying that. But what we surfaced last week also is that city code doesn't say 00:09:36.701 --> 00:09:42.446 - that the duty can be assigned. It's the duty of the property owner, full stop. And I think that's like 00:09:42.446 --> 00:09:46.462 - an example of an operational improvement that we can make where we stop 00:09:46.754 --> 00:09:53.736 - failing to get compliance because of this perceived loophole or something. If the fine needs to be issued, 00:09:53.736 --> 00:10:00.521 - because ultimately that property never did for two weeks, almost three, never did come into compliance, 00:10:00.521 --> 00:10:07.177 - the RDC-owned property at College Square. It clearly wasn't effective, the U Reports and other things 00:10:07.177 --> 00:10:08.286 - that were filed. 00:10:08.482 --> 00:10:13.359 - So if we just go with the appropriate citation within the appropriate timeline, whatever happens in 00:10:13.359 --> 00:10:18.481 - private contracts between the property owner and their tenants from there, that's up to them to resolve. 00:10:18.481 --> 00:10:23.358 - If they want to pass that cost on to the tenant because it's in the lease, they can do that. But we 00:10:23.358 --> 00:10:28.382 - should not be foregoing the responsibility of the city to try to ensure safe and accessible sidewalks. 00:10:28.382 --> 00:10:32.918 - So I thought that was a really interesting follow-up and just again an example of what would 00:10:32.918 --> 00:10:34.430 - be an operational improvement, 00:10:34.690 --> 00:10:40.729 - necessarily usually the purview of the City Council per se, but these deliberation sessions and the 00:10:40.729 --> 00:10:47.009 - conversations with staff to follow are meant to kind of, I think, help build collaborative work towards 00:10:47.009 --> 00:10:53.108 - any range of improvements, including ones that aren't squarely our job per se. So anyway, that's the 00:10:53.108 --> 00:10:59.388 - report. Thanks. Thank you so much. There's Council Member Zulek. Yes. Hello, everyone. Thanks for being 00:10:59.388 --> 00:11:01.502 - here. The clerk's office has asked 00:11:01.698 --> 00:11:09.254 - Me to remind all of us that in accordance with resolution 2025-15 established expectations for councilmember 00:11:09.254 --> 00:11:16.672 - liaisons for boards and commissions and Few staff liaisons when they were checked in with knew who they're 00:11:16.672 --> 00:11:23.743 - assigned council liaison is so I just want to remind everyone that we should have all checked in with 00:11:23.743 --> 00:11:30.814 - all of our counts all of our staff liaisons for the boards and commissions for which we liaise to and 00:11:31.266 --> 00:11:37.660 - chair of those boards and commissions and introduce yourself other responsibilities are Just let them 00:11:37.660 --> 00:11:43.992 - know your role as councilmember liaison checking in at least three times a year Serving as the point 00:11:43.992 --> 00:11:50.449 - of contact for liaisons and chairs as a two-way communication for activities or concerns they may have 00:11:50.449 --> 00:11:54.398 - and attend at least one meeting of the Commission annually and 00:11:54.594 --> 00:12:01.132 - Inform assigned Commission chairs and liaisons of relevant proposed legislation from the council and 00:12:01.132 --> 00:12:07.928 - and getting feedback from said Commission. Thank you Thank you so much. Any others the councilman Arula? 00:12:07.928 --> 00:12:14.660 - Thank you. Just off the cuff. I'd like to respond to a couple of my colleagues Well, first of all, I'll 00:12:14.660 --> 00:12:21.262 - say that drawing on our monthly constituent meetings council member Ruff and I and the third Saturday 00:12:21.262 --> 00:12:22.686 - Saturday of the month 00:12:23.106 --> 00:12:31.947 - have a constituent meeting that sometimes goes on for several hours and Invariably people are concerned 00:12:31.947 --> 00:12:40.447 - about infrastructure in the city Particularly the conditions of the streets and sidewalks Obstacles 00:12:40.447 --> 00:12:48.353 - on the sidewalks that present problems with people Being able to use them, especially people 00:12:48.353 --> 00:12:51.838 - with accessibility problems and and also 00:12:52.706 --> 00:13:02.463 - the transformation of owner occupied housing or potential owner occupied housing to rentals and the 00:13:02.463 --> 00:13:12.708 - pressure to Essentially by investors to to buy up those properties and turn them into plexus and Forever 00:13:12.708 --> 00:13:22.270 - essentially render them inaccessible for for owner occupancy. That's a very very real concern and 00:13:22.402 --> 00:13:31.001 - of core neighborhoods surrounding campus downtown Brian Park neighborhood in particular where a lot 00:13:31.001 --> 00:13:39.771 - of that has happened The second thing I wanted to say is that I I wanted to extend my appreciation to 00:13:39.771 --> 00:13:48.542 - my colleague councilmember Piedmont Smith Regarding the property that she was referring to which is a 00:13:48.642 --> 00:13:56.743 - Second Street, we need to have a close look at that property. I think because it has a lot of potential 00:13:56.743 --> 00:14:04.922 - For affordability and I think that we don't have many opportunities downtown to develop those properties 00:14:04.922 --> 00:14:12.712 - and so we ought to be very Cognizant that we may not be able to find other places where we can have 00:14:12.712 --> 00:14:18.398 - real affordability for people Who are currently living there by the way? 00:14:19.426 --> 00:14:28.097 - The third thing I wanted to touch on is something that is, I think it's a tsunami that's happening, 00:14:28.097 --> 00:14:36.768 - and that is data centers. So data centers are propping up everywhere in our country. We essentially 00:14:36.768 --> 00:14:45.526 - have, I understand, about half of the world's data centers currently, which is numbering over 5,000, 00:14:45.526 --> 00:14:48.734 - and we've got 3,000 more on the way. 00:14:48.866 --> 00:14:57.594 - These are enormous facilities. The one in Utah is proposed, I don't know if you've seen it, to be 62 00:14:57.594 --> 00:15:06.582 - square miles in size. And because it is used for cloud storage and AI training and compute, it utilizes 00:15:06.582 --> 00:15:15.223 - a lot of energy and a lot of water for cooling. And so these things plop in communities and they're 00:15:15.223 --> 00:15:16.606 - often unwanted. 00:15:17.090 --> 00:15:25.965 - By the people and there's a huge resistance to them. Fortunately, I understand that our county colleagues 00:15:25.965 --> 00:15:34.506 - and the County Planning Commission put a pause on any more on any AI data centers or any data centers 00:15:34.506 --> 00:15:43.130 - Development and until for a year and I think that expires in July They drive up utility costs They use 00:15:43.130 --> 00:15:46.814 - tremendous water. They externalize a lot of 00:15:47.042 --> 00:15:55.508 - the cost of the public. And so we ought to be on guard and aware and wary of these data centers. Maybe 00:15:55.508 --> 00:16:04.302 - there's more to talk about in the coming weeks. Thank you. Thank you so much. Any other council colleagues 00:16:04.302 --> 00:16:06.686 - with an update or statement? 00:16:07.490 --> 00:16:13.118 - All right, well we will move along then. We now have a handful of reports. First we'll hear from the 00:16:13.118 --> 00:16:18.747 - Commission on the Status of Black Males and then the Commission on the Status of Children and Youth. 00:16:18.747 --> 00:16:21.310 - Come to the microphone and take it away, sir. 00:16:46.338 --> 00:16:52.017 - Good evening. It's nice to be here before you again. My name is James Sanders, chair of the City of 00:16:52.017 --> 00:16:57.866 - Bloomington Commission on the Status of Black Males. Thank you for the opportunity to present our 2025 00:16:57.866 --> 00:17:03.601 - annual report. Tonight, we will highlight the commission's work over the past year, share the impact 00:17:03.601 --> 00:17:08.542 - of our programs and partnerships, and discuss our goals and priorities moving forward. 00:17:11.874 --> 00:17:17.909 - The Commission on the Status of Black Males is a seven-member volunteer commission supported by the 00:17:17.909 --> 00:17:24.306 - City of Bloomington Community and Family Resources Department. Our work focuses on addressing disparities 00:17:24.306 --> 00:17:30.401 - impacting black males in the areas of education, health, criminal justice, and employment while also 00:17:30.401 --> 00:17:36.737 - celebrating achievement, leadership, and community engagement. Throughout 2025, the commission continued 00:17:36.737 --> 00:17:38.910 - building partnerships with schools, 00:17:39.042 --> 00:17:45.497 - nonprofits, health organizations, and community leaders to create meaningful opportunities for youth 00:17:45.497 --> 00:17:51.952 - and families across Bloomington. 2025 was a year of strong community engagement and continued growth 00:17:51.952 --> 00:17:58.407 - for the commission. During Centennial Black History Month, the commission recognized four recipients 00:17:58.407 --> 00:18:05.246 - through the Outstanding Leaders of Tomorrow awards for leadership, scholarship, and community involvement. 00:18:06.082 --> 00:18:13.328 - The Black Barbershop Health Initiative led or helped during Bloomington's Juneteenth celebration partnered 00:18:13.328 --> 00:18:20.507 - with organizations including the National Merrill Donor Program, Hoosier Health, and the NAACP to provide 00:18:20.507 --> 00:18:27.550 - culturally responsive health, outreach, and education in trusted community spaces. The National Million 00:18:27.714 --> 00:18:34.124 - The National Million Father March had more than 40 plus fathers, mentors, and volunteers at Fairview 00:18:34.124 --> 00:18:40.471 - Elementary School to support students at the start of the school year and encourage positive family 00:18:40.471 --> 00:18:47.262 - engagement in education. Our Black Male Youth Summit brought together 67 students for a day of leadership, 00:18:47.262 --> 00:18:53.608 - development, and mentorship featuring speakers Dr. Adrian Parker, Keelan Mark, and Arthur Thomas X. 00:18:53.608 --> 00:18:54.814 - Williams. Finally, 00:18:55.074 --> 00:19:01.102 - our window wonderland partnered with the NAACP Freedom Fund banquet city of Bloomington parks and rec 00:19:01.102 --> 00:19:07.189 - and other community organizations to provide a positive holiday experience for more than 100 families. 00:19:07.189 --> 00:19:13.218 - These programs continue to strengthen relationships, increase the visibility and create opportunities 00:19:13.218 --> 00:19:16.350 - for black males and families throughout Bloomington. 00:19:19.938 --> 00:19:26.546 - As we move forward into 2026, the commission is focused on expanding community partnerships, increasing 00:19:26.546 --> 00:19:33.281 - outreach, and continuing to grow our signature programs. We plan to strengthen engagement efforts through 00:19:33.281 --> 00:19:40.080 - tabling opportunities, collaborative programming, and youth-centered activities that encourage leadership, 00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:42.558 - development, and community connection. 00:19:43.394 --> 00:19:49.999 - The commission also plans to continue enhancing the Black Male Youth Summit and Black Barbershop Health 00:19:49.999 --> 00:19:56.795 - Initiative while identifying additional funding and sponsorship opportunities to sustain long-term program 00:19:56.795 --> 00:20:03.400 - growth. Although funding and resource development remain ongoing challenges, we remain optimistic about 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:09.814 - the partnerships and support that continue to emerge throughout Bloomington. The commission is proud 00:20:09.814 --> 00:20:12.926 - to currently have full membership representation 00:20:13.058 --> 00:20:19.627 - which positions us well for the continued collaboration and impact in the coming year. We invite community 00:20:19.627 --> 00:20:25.827 - members, organizations, and local leaders to stay engaged with the Commission on the Status of Black 00:20:25.827 --> 00:20:32.396 - Males by attending our programs, partnering with our initiatives, and supporting our mission. We encourage 00:20:32.396 --> 00:20:39.026 - everyone to participate in upcoming events such as the Black Barbershop Health Initiative in June, National 00:20:39.026 --> 00:20:40.990 - Million Father March in August, 00:20:41.090 --> 00:20:47.569 - Black Male Youth Summit in November and Winter Wonderland in December. Monthly Commission meetings are 00:20:47.569 --> 00:20:54.047 - open to the public and provide opportunities for residents to learn more about our work and contribute 00:20:54.047 --> 00:21:00.652 - ideas that help strengthen our community. Additional information, meeting schedules, and program updates 00:21:00.652 --> 00:21:07.068 - can be found on our website at City of Bloomington Commission on the Status of Black Males. Thank you 00:21:07.068 --> 00:21:08.766 - for your continued support 00:21:09.186 --> 00:21:16.605 - and commitment to advancing opportunities and positive outcomes for black males in Bloomington. That 00:21:16.605 --> 00:21:23.509 - concludes my presentation. I'll now entertain any questions that you have. Thank you so much. 00:21:23.509 --> 00:21:30.854 - Thank you. Are there any questions or comments. Thank you so much for all of your good work. I know 00:21:30.854 --> 00:21:36.510 - we we saw you here last year so you've been at the helm for for a while now. 00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:45.465 - Can you tell us a little bit more about the winter wonderland? I'm not real familiar with that program 00:21:45.465 --> 00:21:53.759 - so winter wonderland was an event that ultimately or originated from I use a black student organization 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:59.262 - we did that in conjunction with us and a few other organizations and 00:21:59.426 --> 00:22:09.142 - Black Greek letter organizations that really started as a toy drive. So we wanted to reach out to I 00:22:09.142 --> 00:22:18.955 - guess Minorities in the community via the Banneker Center and we just wanted to make gifts available 00:22:18.955 --> 00:22:25.950 - for students of all ages we aimed from two to about 14 years of age and 00:22:26.114 --> 00:22:36.228 - From about I would say five years ago a little bit before kovat. It just kind of grew into Toy drive 00:22:36.228 --> 00:22:46.342 - then toys and pictures with Santa and then we just slowly added events and now when families come we 00:22:46.342 --> 00:22:54.654 - have about 20 events that the That the children can stop at anywhere from games to 00:22:54.850 --> 00:23:02.121 - different types of trivia Obviously pictures with Santa and then the last thing that they do is Go and 00:23:02.121 --> 00:23:09.181 - get a gift. So it's kind of cool. They get a passport when they first walk in They have to visit so 00:23:09.181 --> 00:23:16.311 - many stops and at every stop community leader stamps their passport and Once they have collected the 00:23:16.311 --> 00:23:23.582 - mandatory amount they can go get a gift But usually we find out the kids want to stop at every station 00:23:23.746 --> 00:23:31.854 - So we have everything from my cocoa stations to cookie decorating stations to carts to Santa events 00:23:31.854 --> 00:23:40.206 - like that, so We're really proud of it because it's free to the community we know during holiday times 00:23:40.206 --> 00:23:48.396 - it can be very expensive and Hectic for families that you know want to share those special, you know 00:23:48.396 --> 00:23:53.342 - holiday moments But that don't necessarily have the funds so 00:23:53.442 --> 00:24:00.955 - They get a picture with Santa they get a gift they get a fun day of events the event spans for about 00:24:00.955 --> 00:24:08.914 - four hours We pull volunteers in from all aspects. You don't have to be necessarily tied to the Commission 00:24:08.914 --> 00:24:14.046 - or any other organization group we put the the need out and we get a 00:24:14.146 --> 00:24:21.974 - astounding responses every year. So every year it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think this 00:24:21.974 --> 00:24:29.802 - last year was our biggest year. And it's not only fun for the kids, it's fun for everyone who joins. 00:24:29.802 --> 00:24:37.629 - I know that was pretty long-winded, but it's one of our flagship events. That's great. And that's at 00:24:37.629 --> 00:24:44.062 - Banneker Center? Yes, ma'am. I have another question. Do you have a staff liaison? 00:24:44.194 --> 00:24:51.905 - The person who did it before has moved on from the city. Do you have a new staff liaison? We have an 00:24:51.905 --> 00:24:59.692 - acting staff liaison. She currently holds multiple positions. Ms. Shatoya Moss, she's been graciously 00:24:59.692 --> 00:25:07.555 - helping us, assisting us in everything that we need. So yeah, she helps us do the tireless work as you 00:25:07.555 --> 00:25:12.670 - see her behind me with her lovely son. So we're thankful for that. 00:25:13.378 --> 00:25:20.249 - Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here and for all that work. I mean, that's amazing that 00:25:20.249 --> 00:25:26.920 - y'all are very, very busy. So thank you. I have a question. One of your events you said you hold in 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:33.658 - June. Was that the barbershop mental health? Yes, it is. OK. Is that part of Juneteenth celebration? 00:25:33.658 --> 00:25:39.262 - Yes, it is. So we used to have the event in various barbershops around Bloomington. 00:25:39.362 --> 00:25:48.698 - But we wanted to reach a more broad audience. And a few years ago, the city started putting on a Juneteenth 00:25:48.698 --> 00:25:57.429 - event. So we wanted to target black people, people of color, and generally anyone who was interested 00:25:57.429 --> 00:26:06.160 - in their health. And so at that event, we held a tabling with multiple medical screeners. Last year, 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.926 - we screened for blood pressure, 00:26:09.026 --> 00:26:18.241 - I think we discussed A1C in the bone marrow registry. And that was new for us. So we were able to reach 00:26:18.241 --> 00:26:27.278 - everyone who wanted to have health screenings performed at the event. I think it was over 100 people. 00:26:27.278 --> 00:26:37.822 - So not only do you walk away with information about health in general, but you can walk away with information specific 00:26:38.786 --> 00:26:46.679 - specific to you, so it's good to know about blood pressure, but what is my blood pressure? Where is 00:26:46.679 --> 00:26:54.572 - my A1C stand? How old do I have to be to be in the bone marrow registry? I found out last year that 00:26:54.572 --> 00:27:02.622 - the cutoff was like 40 or something, so I won't age myself, but a lot of that information was helpful 00:27:02.622 --> 00:27:04.990 - to know, and not enough of us 00:27:05.154 --> 00:27:14.997 - Not just people of color and black folks know about that those kind of things Thank you for the presentation 00:27:14.997 --> 00:27:24.570 - I was wondering about the Million Father March, that's a national effort. Yeah, it's I'm sorry. Go ahead. 00:27:24.570 --> 00:27:34.142 - Well, I just I was just looking into it and so it's a national effort you're tied into that yes, and it's 00:27:34.242 --> 00:27:42.383 - essentially to have a parent come to school and engage with Is I understand it in my am I correct there? 00:27:42.383 --> 00:27:50.136 - So yes, that's that's some of it We really just aim to make sure the the students feel supported on 00:27:50.136 --> 00:27:57.967 - their first day of school so we know that we've all been students before in grade school that can be 00:27:57.967 --> 00:28:01.534 - one of the most hectic days that you face and 00:28:01.698 --> 00:28:09.273 - you know, coming in, you know, learning your new teachers, you know, meeting new friends or connecting 00:28:09.273 --> 00:28:16.848 - with older friends that you've had. So the commission just wants to show their support or aims to show 00:28:16.848 --> 00:28:23.614 - their support for children on their first day of school. So we have a huge turnout. We have 00:28:23.714 --> 00:28:30.735 - Types of organizations we have the firemen we have the police department come we have city officials 00:28:30.735 --> 00:28:37.896 - as some of you have participated In the past to just come and welcome the students high-five them Just 00:28:37.896 --> 00:28:45.265 - give them an encouragement and let them know that they have an entire community behind them That's really 00:28:45.265 --> 00:28:52.286 - great Well, my second question is You're doing a lot. Are there resources that you may need that you 00:28:52.546 --> 00:29:00.990 - Have trouble that would help you help the commission Say again resources city resources. Are you finding 00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:09.032 - city resources are available? To help your commission. Sure. Yes. Are you does it? Yes, we are so a 00:29:09.032 --> 00:29:17.396 - couple of our flagship events that are most expensive are the winter wonderland and the blackmail youth 00:29:17.396 --> 00:29:22.302 - summit so we found creative ways to support those events and 00:29:22.402 --> 00:29:30.096 - through different partnerships with, for instance, Pizza X assists us with donating food for 00:29:30.096 --> 00:29:38.618 - the participants. And we get other donations like that. For the toy drives, we reach out to the entire 00:29:38.618 --> 00:29:47.057 - community to assist us with gift donations. So they either donate the gifts or donate the funding for 00:29:47.057 --> 00:29:49.374 - us to purchase those gifts. 00:29:49.506 --> 00:29:58.687 - The commission has a budget that we use that our city liaison manages and we pull from that as well. 00:29:58.687 --> 00:30:07.778 - So the donations come from all over the place and I can get you a specific report probably a little 00:30:07.778 --> 00:30:16.414 - later. But even though we have lost some donors we've also gained again more donors. OK great. 00:30:16.642 --> 00:30:25.217 - Budget times coming up soon. So if you a million dollars, okay Okay, I got it see what I can do I'm 00:30:25.217 --> 00:30:34.135 - only one of nine All right, there's a motion and a second will follow will follow up Any other comments 00:30:34.135 --> 00:30:39.966 - or questions? All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you 00:30:40.066 --> 00:30:47.082 - We'll now hear from the commission. Yay, clapping makes everything better. We now will hear from the 00:30:47.082 --> 00:30:54.098 - commission of the status of children and youth. Take it away. Hi, everybody. Hi. Erin Reynolds-Nylan 00:30:54.098 --> 00:31:01.184 - here. I am the vice chair this year, but last year I was the chair of the commission on the status of 00:31:01.184 --> 00:31:08.478 - children and youth. Thanks for hearing us. Good to see you guys again. Tonight, similar to the status on 00:31:09.218 --> 00:31:16.677 - black male Commission we will be providing a brief overview of our work and our Highlights of like several 00:31:16.677 --> 00:31:23.718 - key accomplishments from the year And our goals for moving forward for what we would love to see for 00:31:23.718 --> 00:31:30.829 - children youth and families throughout Bloomington the Commission on the status of children and youth 00:31:30.829 --> 00:31:36.894 - CSC why was established in 2004 and serves as an advisory board for the Commission for 00:31:37.154 --> 00:31:43.873 - Our advisory commission focused on issues impacting children youth and families in Bloomington We have 00:31:43.873 --> 00:31:50.528 - nine volunteer members appointed by the mayor and Common Council and is supported by CFRD Our mission 00:31:50.528 --> 00:31:57.508 - is to strengthen connections and opportunities that empower and support young people through collaboration 00:31:57.508 --> 00:32:00.574 - advocacy outreach and community engagement and 00:32:01.026 --> 00:32:09.835 - And so throughout 2025, we focused on youth recognition, literacy initiatives, strengthening partnerships, 00:32:09.835 --> 00:32:18.068 - and increasing awareness of resources available to children and families in our community. We had a 00:32:18.068 --> 00:32:26.465 - really great year last year. It was a year of growth and community engagement. We were super involved 00:32:26.465 --> 00:32:29.758 - with various other commissions and just 00:32:29.858 --> 00:32:37.077 - within the community, one of our largest accomplishments was the Swagger Awards, which recognizes students 00:32:37.077 --> 00:32:44.026 - who demonstrate generosity, growth, and leadership. So Swagger stands for students who act generously, 00:32:44.026 --> 00:32:51.110 - grow, and earn respect. We just voted on our nominees last night, which was super great. A lot of really 00:32:51.110 --> 00:32:58.261 - rewarding things going on in our community in terms of growth for children and opportunities. This year's 00:32:58.261 --> 00:32:59.678 - event, 2025's event, 00:32:59.778 --> 00:33:07.337 - was the largest to date. We used to have it in here in City Commons or in Council of Commons. Like maybe 00:33:07.337 --> 00:33:15.112 - five kids would be nominated and voted on. And this year we had 179 attendees with 23 nominations submitted 00:33:15.112 --> 00:33:22.239 - through schools, youth organizations, community groups, so many different opportunities throughout 00:33:22.239 --> 00:33:25.694 - Bloomington. So we're really jazzed about that. 00:33:26.210 --> 00:33:33.148 - The commission also continued its annual read for the record initiative in partnership with MCC schools 00:33:33.148 --> 00:33:39.886 - and community volunteers. This year's book was called Nigel and the moon and the program resulted in 00:33:39.886 --> 00:33:46.890 - more than 120 shared reading experiences that encouraged literacy and family engagement. It was a really 00:33:46.890 --> 00:33:48.158 - really sweet book. 00:33:48.450 --> 00:33:56.350 - In addition to or in addition CSCY expanded community outreach efforts through participation in the 00:33:56.350 --> 00:34:04.409 - Children's Expo school resource events and partnerships with organizations such as Exodus refugee and 00:34:04.409 --> 00:34:07.806 - tandem. The commission was also supported. 00:34:08.098 --> 00:34:16.089 - or supported collaborative community initiatives, we've partnered with or we participated in the Million 00:34:16.089 --> 00:34:23.852 - Father March and the Winter Wonderland to help strengthen family engagement and yeah, show up for our 00:34:23.852 --> 00:34:31.539 - fellow commissioners. As we move into 2026, we are super focused still on expanding partnerships and 00:34:31.539 --> 00:34:33.822 - strengthening youth advocacy. 00:34:33.954 --> 00:34:40.270 - and continuing our partnerships that positively impact children. One major priority is establishing 00:34:40.270 --> 00:34:46.648 - a teen liaison to help elevate youth voice and representation within the commission. We also plan to 00:34:46.648 --> 00:34:53.090 - continue using community data and feedback such as the Indiana Youth Institute's Kids Count Data Book 00:34:53.090 --> 00:34:58.206 - to help guide priorities and identify emerging needs specifically in the county. 00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:06.753 - The commission will continue building upon the success of programs like swagger, which is next Wednesday 00:35:06.753 --> 00:35:13.251 - while increasing partnerships and sponsorships and opportunities to help sustain future growth of that 00:35:13.251 --> 00:35:20.063 - specific program. So although the commission operates with very limited funding, the community partnerships 00:35:20.063 --> 00:35:26.750 - and local support allowed us to secure nearly four thousand dollars in additional sponsorships during our 00:35:26.978 --> 00:35:33.147 - last year, 2025, to help expand the impact of our work specifically for Swagger. So the success of the 00:35:33.147 --> 00:35:39.315 - CSCY depends on strong community involvement and collaboration. We encourage residents, organizations, 00:35:39.315 --> 00:35:45.484 - educators, and community leaders to stay engaged by attending meetings, volunteering, supporting youth 00:35:45.484 --> 00:35:51.713 - initiatives, and partnering with the commission. We meet every third Tuesday of each month at 5.30 here 00:35:51.713 --> 00:35:55.486 - at City Hall, and our information can be found on the website. 00:35:55.746 --> 00:36:03.373 - And we're actually full, which is really exciting. We're not looking for more commissioners, which is 00:36:03.373 --> 00:36:10.851 - so first time since I've been on in 2023. So yeah, thank you for your continued support of children 00:36:10.851 --> 00:36:18.329 - and families in Bloomington. Thank you so very much. Questions or comments? Well, just thanking you 00:36:18.329 --> 00:36:21.918 - so much for the time. Oh, Councilmember Rangel. 00:36:22.434 --> 00:36:29.105 - Yeah, I'd like to ask the same question I did before which is So you were able to with limited funding 00:36:29.105 --> 00:36:35.712 - you said And get an additional four thousand dollars would I mean you commissions do so much work? So 00:36:35.712 --> 00:36:42.448 - for a little bit more we could do so much more. Do you find that you come up short? At times I'm sorry. 00:36:42.448 --> 00:36:48.925 - Do you come up short? I mean everybody would like more money, right? But I guess what I'm saying is 00:36:48.925 --> 00:36:51.710 - that are there things are there are there? 00:36:52.034 --> 00:37:00.042 - Are there things that you would like to do that you're hobbled because it just isn't the resources aren't 00:37:00.042 --> 00:37:07.672 - there. Financially I mean I feel like the commission we're still finding our niche with what what we 00:37:07.672 --> 00:37:15.378 - can do. There's so much support and different organizations in town focused on children right. And we 00:37:15.378 --> 00:37:20.062 - don't want to duplicate. We want to maximize what's going on. 00:37:20.354 --> 00:37:30.507 - and elevate what's happening. And so currently, I mean, the biggest barrier that we have is the funding 00:37:30.507 --> 00:37:40.562 - for Swagger to keep the momentum and maintain. That $4,000 was acquired for prizes. And some of it was 00:37:40.562 --> 00:37:48.958 - in-kind donations, too. Some of it was sponsorships to help with that specific event. 00:37:50.594 --> 00:37:58.684 - Yes, and it's we could always use and find some opportunities. I mean, I would really love to help sponsor 00:37:58.684 --> 00:38:07.000 - And elevate things that are happening and how we can support Events and things like that through sponsorships 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:14.333 - or anything like similar to that. So It's kind of a kind of an answer Well, that's very helpful. 00:38:14.333 --> 00:38:19.550 - Thank you. I just you know, it's great presentation you do a lot and 00:38:20.482 --> 00:38:26.832 - Budget times coming up and I would like to see our boards and Commission's support to do more. Yeah, 00:38:26.832 --> 00:38:33.245 - as much as they're capable Yeah, I think at annually we operate on like maybe 2000 and we spent about 00:38:33.245 --> 00:38:39.783 - 14 of our own funds on swagger last year, so it doesn't leave a lot of room, right? So yeah, thank you. 00:38:39.783 --> 00:38:45.630 - Good. Okay. Thank you so much Excellent. Thank you. Any other questions comes from Stossberg 00:38:46.018 --> 00:38:51.157 - This isn't a question so much, and it's kind of for both of these commissions. I remember last year 00:38:51.157 --> 00:38:56.502 - when we got these presentations, I think both of them. But I know for sure the Commission on the Status 00:38:56.502 --> 00:39:01.847 - of Black Males needed more commissioners. And this year, both of these commissions are full. And I just 00:39:01.847 --> 00:39:07.295 - think that that is something to celebrate. And I'm really glad that we have some community members who've 00:39:07.295 --> 00:39:12.640 - stepped up to participate in both of the good works of these commissions. Because when you're operating 00:39:12.640 --> 00:39:15.518 - on not very much budget, what you're doing, what you're 00:39:15.618 --> 00:39:22.562 - Which need is person time. Yeah, and they they have person time this year. So that's great and keeping 00:39:22.562 --> 00:39:29.304 - the commissioners, right? I we've turned over maybe 70% We just have like just now started our full 00:39:29.304 --> 00:39:36.181 - commission from the beginning of the year Mostly brand new people. Yeah, definitely want to keep them 00:39:36.181 --> 00:39:42.046 - and do some more really good work with a full team. So, thanks Yeah, thank you so much 00:39:42.274 --> 00:39:49.423 - Thank you. Thank you for the comment. Thank you again for your work. Yay. All right. We now move to 00:39:49.423 --> 00:39:56.714 - the first of two sessions or sections of public comment or reports from the public. If you would like 00:39:56.714 --> 00:40:03.934 - to give comment, if you could so kindly come to the microphone, there's a sign in sheet if you could 00:40:04.098 --> 00:40:10.520 - kindly sign in. If you'd like to state your name or your alias for the record, that will be great. People 00:40:10.520 --> 00:40:16.760 - online, you can just raise your hand on Zoom and we'll be able to take your question. Is there anybody 00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:22.334 - who'd like to give public comment at this time? No one in chambers. Is there anyone online? 00:40:23.330 --> 00:40:30.836 - Fantastic, moving smoothly along then. We'll now move then to legislation for, oh, I'm sorry. We have 00:40:30.836 --> 00:40:38.342 - any reports from council committees? I jumped over, I'm sorry. Nope, good, I'm grateful that I jumped 00:40:38.342 --> 00:40:46.143 - over. I knew it, that's why I jumped over. Apportments to Boyden Commissions, do we have any? Tremendous, 00:40:46.143 --> 00:40:52.766 - we are moving swiftly along to legislation for first reading then. Are there any motions? 00:40:53.410 --> 00:41:01.196 - I move that ordinance twenty twenty six dash twelve be introduced and read by the clerk by title and 00:41:01.196 --> 00:41:09.059 - synopsis only Second there is a motion and a second any discussion Seeing none will the clerk please? 00:41:09.059 --> 00:41:16.768 - Oh actually voice book all those in favor. I Opposed same sign. All right that motion carries nine. 00:41:16.768 --> 00:41:23.166 - Oh fantastic. Will the clerk please read Ordinance number twenty twenty six twelve 00:41:24.354 --> 00:41:31.619 - To amend Title 15 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled Vehicles and Traffic to create a chapter 00:41:31.619 --> 00:41:38.812 - for streets and alleys that are closed to vehicular traffic synopsis. This ordinance seeks to codify 00:41:38.812 --> 00:41:46.291 - streets and alleys in Bloomington that disallow vehicular traffic. Specifically, this ordinance codifies 00:41:46.291 --> 00:41:51.134 - the seasonal carless schedule of specific blocks of Kirkwood Avenue 00:41:51.842 --> 00:41:58.910 - With this ordinance businesses and residents can expect a permanent seasonal carless Kirkwood allowing 00:41:58.910 --> 00:42:05.292 - businesses businesses the predictability to invest in outdoor infrastructure for guests. The 00:42:05.292 --> 00:42:11.262 - city administration has provided valuable operational feedback in its 2026 memorandum. 00:42:11.746 --> 00:42:18.296 - Identifying important challenges regarding infrastructure sanitation public safety and accessibility 00:42:18.296 --> 00:42:24.846 - that naturally arise as temporary programs transition towards Permanent city fixtures with that this 00:42:24.846 --> 00:42:31.914 - ordinance aims to provide the necessary legal and budgetary certainty for the city to move beyond Incomplete 00:42:31.914 --> 00:42:38.853 - solutions and invest in more permanent infrastructure such as more ADA compliant features and high quality 00:42:38.853 --> 00:42:40.734 - seating recommended by staff 00:42:43.298 --> 00:42:53.396 - Move to discuss ordinance 2026-12 second All right, there do we vote on that we do vote on that, okay, 00:42:53.396 --> 00:43:03.494 - there's a motion in a second to discuss Ordinance 2026 12 all those in favor say aye. Aye opposed Just 00:43:03.494 --> 00:43:12.318 - to be clear comes Morello that was the I for the first not the second it was an I for the 00:43:12.482 --> 00:43:21.056 - Okay, thank you. Okay that carries eight. Oh Is there anyone to present? All right, I will be presenting 00:43:21.056 --> 00:43:29.222 - for this. So thank you very much Okay, so in plain terms ordinance 2026-12 wants to take our Fairly 00:43:29.222 --> 00:43:37.551 - recent Carlos Kirkwood tradition and turn it from a guessing game into a predictable city standard so 00:43:37.551 --> 00:43:39.102 - so so specifically 00:43:39.810 --> 00:43:46.572 - It amends title 15 the vehicles and traffic section of Bloomington's municipal code to officially designate 00:43:46.572 --> 00:43:53.146 - specific blocks of Kirkwood Avenue as a dedicated pedestrian zone each year from April through November. 00:43:53.146 --> 00:43:59.594 - So we see this you know we've we've made sure to put in here a bit of an emergency valve. It gives the 00:43:59.594 --> 00:44:05.918 - city engineer full legal authority to temporarily reopen the street to cars if there's an emergency. 00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:13.145 - maybe perhaps a utility disruption, et cetera, et cetera. So why now? A little bit of context about 00:44:13.145 --> 00:44:20.595 - how we got here. If you feel like we've been talking about closing Kirkwood for years, you're absolutely 00:44:20.595 --> 00:44:27.973 - right. It's because we have. Here's a brief timeline of why this legislation is hitting the table right 00:44:27.973 --> 00:44:31.166 - now. So we piloted this during the pandemic. 00:44:31.394 --> 00:44:37.737 - Carlos Kirkwood started as an emergency pilot program to help local restaurants survive COVID-19 by 00:44:37.737 --> 00:44:44.080 - moving tables to the street. It was highly popular. And so the City Council has been renewing it as 00:44:44.080 --> 00:44:50.614 - a temporary year-to-year program. Last year, we renewed it on a three-year timeline. So we didn't have 00:44:50.614 --> 00:44:56.830 - to keep voting on it every year so that there was a little bit more predictability for everybody. 00:44:57.730 --> 00:45:04.657 - But earlier this year, the administration had decided to not do the full street closure for the 2026 00:45:04.657 --> 00:45:11.515 - season. Instead, they pivoted to a parklet model, which we had done a year or two before because of 00:45:11.515 --> 00:45:18.579 - construction. So that parklet model meant the streets stay open to cars, but restaurants can block off 00:45:18.579 --> 00:45:26.055 - the metered parking spots directly in front of their buildings for dining. And when they made this decision, 00:45:26.055 --> 00:45:26.878 - they raised 00:45:27.010 --> 00:45:33.314 - the city staff raised some incredibly fair logistical points for making this pivot. You know, they noted 00:45:33.314 --> 00:45:39.318 - that when the street is closed 24 seven, but there aren't active festivals or events happening, the 00:45:39.318 --> 00:45:45.623 - empty asphalt can look a little barren and maybe sad on a Tuesday afternoon. They also pointed out valid 00:45:45.623 --> 00:45:51.627 - headaches concerning delivery trucks, public safety routing and accessibility issues were temporary 00:45:51.627 --> 00:45:56.670 - ramps, you know, and the, you know what I'm trying to say, just weren't cutting it. 00:45:56.770 --> 00:46:03.574 - And so finally, they noted that a massive holistic Kirkwood corridor study is scheduled for early 2027 00:46:03.574 --> 00:46:10.511 - to figure out the long-term future of the street. We see codifying this closure now as a way to go ahead 00:46:10.511 --> 00:46:17.381 - and start addressing all of those problems rather than just hoping they'll get addressed down the road. 00:46:17.381 --> 00:46:24.252 - So that's partially why we're introducing this ordinance right now. Instead of looking at the technical 00:46:24.252 --> 00:46:26.366 - worries as a reason to give up, 00:46:26.466 --> 00:46:34.461 - on pedestrian Kirkwood we're introducing this ordinance to give the city the tools to actually fix those 00:46:34.461 --> 00:46:42.380 - problems. So temporary year to year pilot programs naturally create temporary and incomplete solutions. 00:46:42.380 --> 00:46:49.918 - So that's why we see this as a strategic move. So number one it would unlock budgetary uncertainty 00:46:50.114 --> 00:46:56.214 - Local businesses and city departments are hesitant to spend any real money on Kirkwood. A restaurant 00:46:56.214 --> 00:47:02.435 - isn't going to buy any beautiful high quality outdoor furniture and the city isn't going to help build 00:47:02.435 --> 00:47:08.656 - any beautiful pocket parks or permanent shade structures in areas that it's needed if the program just 00:47:08.656 --> 00:47:13.246 - might be canceled next year. Nobody's going to be making those investments. 00:47:14.146 --> 00:47:20.162 - By making the seasonal window permanent, though, everyone gets the financial predictability they need 00:47:20.162 --> 00:47:26.119 - to invest in making the space gorgeous and active. We also see this as upgrading, you know, from the 00:47:26.119 --> 00:47:32.016 - band-aid accessibility to a more universal design. When the closure is temporary, the accessibility 00:47:32.016 --> 00:47:38.622 - features are temporary, too. So think, right, plywood ramps, confusing detours for residents with disabilities. 00:47:38.818 --> 00:47:45.402 - A permanent seasonal framework means the city can design and build high quality level surface permanent 00:47:45.402 --> 00:47:51.860 - ADA infrastructure along the corridor. And we see this as being helpful in setting the vision for the 00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:58.634 - twenty twenty seven study. So the planning department along with the SD is doing a major Kirkwood corridor 00:47:58.634 --> 00:47:59.710 - study next year. 00:48:00.002 --> 00:48:05.710 - This ordinance doesn't step on their toes. It's not designed to do that. It's actually meant to give 00:48:05.710 --> 00:48:11.418 - them you know helpful clear directive. The council's job is to set the policy vision. We want a safe 00:48:11.418 --> 00:48:17.240 - walkable vibrant downtown and the twenty twenty seven study will be the perfect tool for our brilliant 00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:22.891 - engineering and planning staff to figure out the exact design to bring that vision to life. So this 00:48:22.891 --> 00:48:24.926 - ordinance is not set up as a fight. 00:48:25.090 --> 00:48:31.514 - between anybody, between council, the administration, the city staff, it's meant to be a partnership. 00:48:31.514 --> 00:48:37.876 - That's how we're approaching this. By establishing a clear recurring baseline, we aim to provide the 00:48:37.876 --> 00:48:44.426 - budgetary certainty that both the city and our local businesses need to invest. We wanna move away from 00:48:44.426 --> 00:48:50.788 - reactive ad hoc setups and build a predictable, safe, accessible public living room that Bloomington 00:48:50.788 --> 00:48:53.118 - can be proud of for decades to come. 00:48:53.506 --> 00:48:59.820 - So tonight's not about forcing a vote or overriding the operational expertise of our staff. It's aligning 00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:06.015 - the council's policy goals with the administration's technical excellence. So I look forward to working 00:49:06.015 --> 00:49:12.091 - closely with the staff, the Transportation Commission, and all stakeholders to help refine this draft 00:49:12.091 --> 00:49:18.525 - into something that makes Bloomington safer, more accessible, and vibrant. Thank you. Excellent. Councilman 00:49:18.525 --> 00:49:21.086 - Rosenberger, did you want to add anything? 00:49:21.506 --> 00:49:29.584 - Will chime in just a little bit. I think Councilmember daily did a great job. I almost said Congress 00:49:29.584 --> 00:49:37.583 - person daily, so I don't know if that's a premonition or what I just wanted to hone in a little bit 00:49:37.583 --> 00:49:40.702 - on the legislative changes beyond just 00:49:41.954 --> 00:49:49.459 - saying it is changing title 15. So the ordinance that we did in 2025 2502 says in cases of emergency 00:49:49.459 --> 00:49:56.965 - lack of participation or any other reason that may render the program impractical the common council 00:49:56.965 --> 00:50:04.396 - authorizes the city engineer to permanently or temporarily suspend the program. So this is changing 00:50:04.396 --> 00:50:09.598 - that to take away that lack of participation or any other reason that 00:50:10.210 --> 00:50:19.525 - makes it impractical. So this ordinance says in cases of emergency the city engineer may temporarily 00:50:19.525 --> 00:50:28.931 - restore motor vehicle traffic as authorized under his duties in title 15. So that is I would say like 00:50:28.931 --> 00:50:38.984 - the very specific parts in question that we thought we would change to make the conversion more predictable. 00:50:38.984 --> 00:50:39.998 - Thank you. 00:50:40.162 --> 00:51:07.326 - All right. All right. Council members, any comments, questions? Council Member Pumas-Smith. 00:51:09.826 --> 00:51:19.306 - So in addition to the Kirkwood closure this ordinance Talks about an alley between 4th Street and Kirkwood 00:51:19.306 --> 00:51:28.166 - 100 feet of the alley to the East of Walnut shall be closed as well could why is that? What is that 00:51:28.166 --> 00:51:31.710 - about? Great great question. So this is 00:51:31.810 --> 00:51:39.652 - ordinance to amend title 15 is meant to then include it would be a new chapter called streets and alleys 00:51:39.652 --> 00:51:47.718 - that are closed to vehicular travel and so that is an alley that is already known to be closed to vehicular 00:51:47.718 --> 00:51:54.664 - travel so it would be going in that list director seaboard did weigh in and say that this is 00:51:54.664 --> 00:51:57.054 - not a comprehensive list and so 00:51:57.218 --> 00:52:07.945 - engineering and or planning would need to give us a comprehensive list to include in in this update. 00:52:07.945 --> 00:52:18.671 - So that alley that portion of the alley is already off limits for vehicles. Yes. Yes. That came from 00:52:18.671 --> 00:52:25.150 - planning. Other questions or comments comes first last week. 00:52:26.370 --> 00:52:32.695 - Yeah, the last couple of years, I think that one of the things that's happened is that not every block 00:52:32.695 --> 00:52:39.020 - of Kirkwood has been closed and I'm specifically thinking about the block in front of the library. And 00:52:39.020 --> 00:52:40.862 - there were several times that 00:52:41.410 --> 00:52:48.378 - I either noticed being utilized or I myself utilized dropping somebody off right in front of the library. 00:52:48.378 --> 00:52:55.411 - Was there consideration given to keeping that particular block open to still provide that kind of service, 00:52:55.411 --> 00:52:58.238 - like I guess I'm especially thinking about 00:52:58.818 --> 00:53:05.578 - Because the the children's section is right there by the doors off of Kirkwood and so being able to 00:53:05.578 --> 00:53:12.405 - like drop off your Middle elementary kid and know that they're walking right into where they need to 00:53:12.405 --> 00:53:19.638 - be without parking might sometimes be benefit for parents and Was there any thought given or consideration 00:53:19.638 --> 00:53:27.006 - given to that block it wasn't something that we discussed You know since there is the drop-off in the back I 00:53:27.362 --> 00:53:33.867 - I don't feel that we felt that it took anything away. I know that there have been grumblings about when 00:53:33.867 --> 00:53:40.185 - you have to drive around the block, you're going around the two blocks. But there is the drop off in 00:53:40.185 --> 00:53:46.503 - the back. So it wasn't a conversation that we had about keeping that part open. It would really kind 00:53:46.503 --> 00:53:53.009 - of being smacked up in the middle of Kirkwood would kind of break up the continuity of the whole thing. 00:53:53.009 --> 00:53:56.574 - I mean, I'm open to a conversation. Like I said, this is 00:53:57.122 --> 00:54:04.089 - Did you check in in transit about that at all? Because I feel like I also saw BT buses dropping people 00:54:04.089 --> 00:54:10.988 - off there and they wouldn't be able to fit in the excuse me Fit in the lot in the back. Oh They do go 00:54:10.988 --> 00:54:17.820 - through the lot in the back. I Did so Bloomington Transit removed all routes from Kirkwood years ago 00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:24.719 - Anticipating a permanent closure to vehicles on the street. So they have not had a bus on Kirkwood in 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:25.598 - years we the 00:54:26.722 --> 00:54:34.751 - Councilmember Daly and I did divide and conquer some of this. And I know Councilmember Zulik and I talked 00:54:34.751 --> 00:54:42.932 - about library entrances. And so mostly what I consulted was not about children, but was about accessibility 00:54:42.932 --> 00:54:49.977 - entrances for the library, which tends to be around back because as you walk in on Kirkwood, 00:54:49.977 --> 00:54:53.310 - you have stairs. There is, I think, a ramp. 00:54:53.826 --> 00:55:02.068 - From the back you have the whole parking lot and then easier access. So we did talk about that and we 00:55:02.068 --> 00:55:10.149 - mostly included all of the blocks because the vision I mean this is all of course debatable in this 00:55:10.149 --> 00:55:18.391 - part of this conversation. The vision is sort of the walnut to Indiana being a pedestrian space comes 00:55:18.391 --> 00:55:22.270 - from Brazil and then Piedmont Smith then Rallo. 00:55:22.690 --> 00:55:30.898 - Yes, I just have a couple, I guess, responses to all of this conversation. Kirkwood is in my district. 00:55:30.898 --> 00:55:39.186 - I speak to a lot of the business owners there and outside of the district. The accessibility issue that 00:55:39.186 --> 00:55:47.394 - Councilmember Rosenberger and I discussed was not specifically to one person entering. It was actually 00:55:47.394 --> 00:55:48.350 - stone belt. 00:55:48.578 --> 00:55:56.124 - that has difficulty entering the back side of the library. And so the front side is really the only 00:55:56.124 --> 00:56:04.046 - space that they could utilize to access the library as a group. And so that is just one of the community 00:56:04.046 --> 00:56:11.667 - accessibility things that I encourage all of us to think about. I'm not opposed to this. I just want 00:56:11.667 --> 00:56:15.742 - to put out what I know. The other thing is the church 00:56:15.906 --> 00:56:24.250 - I believe it is First Christian Church. They have some community members with disabilities who also 00:56:24.250 --> 00:56:32.677 - utilize their alley that is only accessible through Kirkwood. And so those are just some things that 00:56:32.677 --> 00:56:41.271 - we might need to circumnavigate. Again, not opposed to the full closure of Kirkwood, but those are two 00:56:41.271 --> 00:56:43.774 - issues that we need to solve. 00:56:44.962 --> 00:56:52.059 - Yes, thank you. Actually, the first Christian church was on my list to contact. I hadn't gotten to that 00:56:52.059 --> 00:56:59.020 - yet. We did also reach out to the Council on Community Accessibility for more input and to start that 00:56:59.020 --> 00:57:06.049 - conversation. So thank you. I really appreciate that you're thinking that way. Thank you. I'll connect 00:57:06.049 --> 00:57:13.214 - you. Thanks. I was wondering, I think I heard that this went to the Transportation Commission this week. 00:57:13.538 --> 00:57:23.297 - Can anybody report on what they said. I can. Yes. So it only went as a discussion item. It did not go 00:57:23.297 --> 00:57:33.057 - as an agenda item. So it was very similar to this Q&A on the topic. It. So I did take a lot of notes. 00:57:33.057 --> 00:57:43.486 - So we took we talked a lot about. Well it was a lot getting them up to speed on this topic. And oh hi. Yeah. 00:57:44.482 --> 00:57:53.738 - So one major topic was whether or not the transportation commission wanted to hear this as an agenda 00:57:53.738 --> 00:58:03.086 - item where they created a resolution to send to us in support or in opposition of this. And the chair 00:58:03.086 --> 00:58:10.142 - is here tonight who can potentially weigh in and give his own summary of it. 00:58:10.242 --> 00:58:18.620 - They are they did schedule a special session on June 8th for this to go before their commission as an 00:58:18.620 --> 00:58:26.834 - agenda item. And then they can still decide to do a resolution to support or oppose or say hey this 00:58:26.834 --> 00:58:35.540 - is not in our purview or we don't prefer to weigh in because it is much more than a transportation topic. 00:58:35.540 --> 00:58:40.222 - But the Transportation Commission touches a lot of areas 00:58:40.322 --> 00:58:50.324 - in general as does transportation so Right, so I have a list of questions from them and I think if Chair 00:58:50.324 --> 00:58:59.849 - Boland wants to speak about it to he is here and and and can Chair of the Transportation Commission 00:58:59.849 --> 00:59:09.374 - as Constable Robert Rosenberger said The Commission did discuss this we didn't get it quite in time 00:59:09.474 --> 00:59:16.782 - to make it a formal case, a resolution for this month's meeting. But we were able to put it, we have 00:59:16.782 --> 00:59:24.019 - the equivalent of what you now call deliberation sessions and that was our version of it. So in it, 00:59:24.019 --> 00:59:30.604 - we at least decided that we wanted to hold a special session in order to be able to make a 00:59:30.604 --> 00:59:32.702 - formal recommendation before 00:59:32.898 --> 00:59:39.903 - the last meeting you have before recess on June 10th. So again, as she said, we'll be scheduling, the 00:59:39.903 --> 00:59:46.771 - meeting is scheduled for Monday, June 8th at 7 p.m. immediately following a planning session of the 00:59:46.771 --> 00:59:53.845 - Transportation Commission where we're talking about a different subject. So it has to come after that. 00:59:53.845 --> 01:00:00.850 - And I just wanna remind council that this will be on our radar no matter what you decide because it's 01:00:00.850 --> 01:00:02.430 - part of our portfolio. 01:00:02.562 --> 01:00:11.403 - and as you recall, the commission has representatives from the Council for Community Accessibility, 01:00:11.403 --> 01:00:20.863 - Board of Public Works, and Bloomington Transit. Specifically, Bloomington Transit mentioned what Councilor 01:00:20.863 --> 01:00:30.942 - Rosenberger said about Kirkwood no longer being a route that BT buses travel. They use 4th and 6th Street mostly. 01:00:31.074 --> 01:00:38.904 - So that's that they've already said that wasn't going to be an issue for them, but I'll be listening 01:00:38.904 --> 01:00:46.113 - tonight to try to tee up Questions for the commission to deliberate over we're going to make 01:00:46.113 --> 01:00:54.408 - a recommendation, but it could be positive negative or neutral It will be the resolution of the commission 01:00:54.408 --> 01:00:56.734 - will decide it either way but 01:00:57.122 --> 01:01:05.117 - I want to be able to take what you say tonight, and we're already gonna have staff looking into some 01:01:05.117 --> 01:01:13.113 - issues that we express concern about on Monday, but we really are taking our cue from you. So, yeah, 01:01:13.113 --> 01:01:21.741 - all that. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. Thank you. All right. Are there any questions 01:01:21.741 --> 01:01:24.670 - for Commissioner Volin? And I think, 01:01:24.770 --> 01:01:33.760 - Councilman Rallo, do you have a question for Commissioner Roland? Are you ready to make your? Your next 01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:42.837 - in queue anyways, but it's unrelated to this topic. Okay We all have questions It's it's to you customer 01:01:42.837 --> 01:01:51.914 - no, I have a comment about I think it's great that we're having this discussion this evening and I think 01:01:51.914 --> 01:01:54.334 - I I Look forward to hearing 01:01:54.562 --> 01:02:04.909 - Transportation Commission's opinion of this I had a question for mr. Allen our council attorney so this 01:02:04.909 --> 01:02:14.857 - is a subject that's been debated for the last few years and that is Who has authority over? Streets 01:02:14.857 --> 01:02:20.926 - in Bloomington, I guess it could be said multiple parties do 01:02:21.634 --> 01:02:31.521 - So I wondered about the interpretation of our code specific to title 15 and any relevant state statute 01:02:31.521 --> 01:02:41.311 - That is I understand the engineer has authority to close streets for emergencies, etc but it previous 01:02:41.311 --> 01:02:50.910 - the council had latitude our Latitude was permanent changes and roadways and streets and things and 01:02:51.330 --> 01:02:57.462 - This actually came up in the enabling language of the Transportation Commission. So it went back to 01:02:57.462 --> 01:03:04.023 - that. What's your interpretation? Are we are we is it within our purview? What I want to ask on my initial 01:03:04.023 --> 01:03:06.046 - read, I believe it is, you know, 01:03:06.338 --> 01:03:12.650 - From the standpoint of the city of Bloomington's regulated streets for a long time via Title 15, generally 01:03:12.650 --> 01:03:19.022 - as a high level principle, the regulation of streets and highways is a designation of legislative authority 01:03:19.022 --> 01:03:25.039 - from the state of Indiana via the police powers of the state, which are exercised by the city. I know 01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:28.638 - that right now the administration has a differing viewpoint. 01:03:28.738 --> 01:03:34.389 - on that and I would be very interested in learning more about their viewpoint and seeing a little bit 01:03:34.389 --> 01:03:39.984 - more about their arguments on that regard so that I could review them in more detail and get back to 01:03:39.984 --> 01:03:45.523 - you with a more thorough analysis. I will just tell you that my initial read of state code, it does 01:03:45.523 --> 01:03:51.562 - seem like council would have this authority. There are of course a myriad of ways in which council sometimes 01:03:51.562 --> 01:03:54.110 - has overlapping authority. In this case also, 01:03:54.338 --> 01:03:59.648 - As a regard to the city engineer the council also has passed an ordinance which is essentially 01:03:59.648 --> 01:04:05.741 - the authorizing ordinance for the city engineer Himself and certain of his powers and granting the emergency 01:04:05.741 --> 01:04:11.609 - closure of roads and things like that So that's where I'm coming from, but I'm certainly open to hearing 01:04:11.609 --> 01:04:17.534 - any Legal arguments that the administration have that differ with that and giving you all a very thorough 01:04:17.534 --> 01:04:21.950 - interpretation Okay, so you you haven't received an interpretation of code and 01:04:22.306 --> 01:04:31.518 - in a written form that you could then pass judgment on or have your interpretation. 01:04:31.682 --> 01:04:37.618 - Last night that would be helpful. So you're saying that would be very helpful for it to be a little 01:04:37.618 --> 01:04:43.672 - bit more fleshed out in full disclosure last night an email was sent by engineer seabor That included 01:04:43.672 --> 01:04:49.668 - three bullet points with general citations to Indiana code that just dealt with the establishment of 01:04:49.668 --> 01:04:55.663 - the city engineer I didn't see a whole lot that specifically Supported necessarily the argument that 01:04:55.663 --> 01:04:58.334 - the City Council has no authority whatsoever 01:04:58.434 --> 01:05:04.104 - Streets and highways. That's why I'm interested to learning more. I think he just meant it as hey, I'm 01:05:04.104 --> 01:05:09.828 - just flagging this issue for you all That's how I took it. It didn't seem like it was a full legal memo 01:05:09.828 --> 01:05:15.333 - at this point But if that exists, I would be very interested in reviewing that Okay, good. Well, we 01:05:15.333 --> 01:05:21.278 - should request that I would ask the chair to request a memo that our Council attorney could interpret noted 01:05:21.826 --> 01:05:30.269 - Thank you. I actually have a follow-up if it's OK. I don't want to butt in. But in terms of implementation, 01:05:30.269 --> 01:05:38.086 - both in terms of first timeline, so is our thought that as soon as we take action on this, assuming 01:05:38.086 --> 01:05:39.806 - that we pass it, that 01:05:40.162 --> 01:05:47.073 - the road would be closed or is there some type of a sort of lead in to that is question one. But then 01:05:47.073 --> 01:05:53.985 - question two is in this for counsel attorney Allen there are a couple of and I'm honestly not sure if 01:05:53.985 --> 01:06:00.286 - they're in code or if they're just procedures like the ways that we do alley vacation that's 01:06:00.354 --> 01:06:06.106 - that I think the way that it happens is that a petitioner with the support of a council member goes 01:06:06.106 --> 01:06:12.030 - to planning and there's a whole process there. So by creating this new chapter, would that then allow, 01:06:12.030 --> 01:06:18.069 - for example, an alley vacation to just be done via code? So I'm just trying to think about the mechanics 01:06:18.069 --> 01:06:23.993 - of, I like the idea of having this codified. You all know I'm very supportive generally of moving this 01:06:23.993 --> 01:06:30.320 - directive. I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of how this will work, how it will interact with other 01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:34.494 - policies and code that we have related to these things. 01:06:35.266 --> 01:06:41.254 - If you'd like a response just briefly in terms of the alley vacation very specifically that's that is 01:06:41.254 --> 01:06:47.476 - dictated by a very specific state statute. And so the council likely could not deviate from that statute. 01:06:47.476 --> 01:06:53.581 - You can't create an alternate procedure than what the General Assembly has already has already provided 01:06:53.581 --> 01:06:59.451 - for which requires notice of hearing and then the council to hold a hearing and then to vote on the 01:06:59.451 --> 01:07:04.030 - vacation of alleyways. I think in this case what we are talking about largely 01:07:04.482 --> 01:07:10.357 - is the currently I believe the temporary closure which I think fits into a slightly different category 01:07:10.357 --> 01:07:16.289 - than the vacation of right away even if even if this is close to vehicular traffic it doesn't seem like 01:07:16.289 --> 01:07:22.279 - the city is is vacating its right of way in any significant sense and so I think that that's a different 01:07:22.279 --> 01:07:25.758 - process I will know just for the good of the order there are 01:07:25.858 --> 01:07:31.868 - There are other considerations, of course, in terms of what's allowed on Kirkwood, how we deal with 01:07:31.868 --> 01:07:38.119 - encroachments and Title 12 in addition to Title 15 as well. So there are plenty of considerations there 01:07:38.119 --> 01:07:44.549 - in terms of the implementation that we'll think through. Thank you so much. And Councilmember Rosenberger, 01:07:44.549 --> 01:07:50.680 - Councilmember Daly, any thoughts on the timeline particularly then? We were hoping to be able to take 01:07:50.680 --> 01:07:54.526 - advantage of it partially this season. That would be our ideal. 01:07:55.042 --> 01:08:01.886 - scenario We also understand that you know More conversation would have to be had But we'd like to be 01:08:01.886 --> 01:08:08.798 - able to enjoy it for part of this season, you know, it's late but we still got time and I think to It 01:08:08.798 --> 01:08:15.981 - doesn't necessarily have to be tomorrow, you know if this gets passed at some point it there are multiple 01:08:15.981 --> 01:08:22.622 - ideas and I think that is something we Purposely left out for council to discuss. Yeah, excellent 01:08:22.818 --> 01:08:28.186 - Excellent. Any other comments or questions? And then I want to move along to public comment. 01:08:28.186 --> 01:08:34.016 - But go ahead, Councilmember Zulek. I just want to give Director Coopersmith one last opportunity, if 01:08:34.016 --> 01:08:39.789 - she wants to talk about feasibility or anything like that. We're talking about it, and you're here. 01:08:39.789 --> 01:08:44.926 - And thank you for being here. Yeah. Thanks for having me, and thanks for the discussion. 01:08:45.058 --> 01:08:51.729 - You know, like I said, I'm largely just trying to be here as a resource if you have specific questions. 01:08:51.729 --> 01:08:58.271 - I think in terms of implementation, I have a little heartburn about that just because we have current 01:08:58.271 --> 01:09:04.749 - funding and a consultant to activate under the current strategy. And I think it's going really well. 01:09:04.749 --> 01:09:11.228 - I think we have a killer plan and it involves certain closures on certain days, our standard special 01:09:11.228 --> 01:09:12.318 - events, and then 01:09:12.418 --> 01:09:19.816 - weekly activations and that's already pretty labor intensive. So we, I mean, if you all decide to close 01:09:19.816 --> 01:09:21.950 - the whole thing this year, I, 01:09:23.010 --> 01:09:29.130 - hesitate to think that we would actually be able to successfully program it, although I take and appreciate 01:09:29.130 --> 01:09:34.966 - the point that this legislation gives a nod to funding in order to be able to have capacity to do that 01:09:34.966 --> 01:09:40.746 - properly when it goes through that budget cycle. So that was one concern. And then just, I think this 01:09:40.746 --> 01:09:46.469 - would be dealt with within the legislation, but there are maintenance of traffic plans right now for 01:09:46.469 --> 01:09:51.966 - like the construction on the first block and the resurfacing that's happening on the 500 blocks. 01:09:52.962 --> 01:10:00.167 - and then number three would just be I understand the framing of this is to give the predictability and 01:10:00.167 --> 01:10:07.372 - The one major improvement I think over the parklets this year were that we required at grade Platforms 01:10:07.372 --> 01:10:14.507 - and so the businesses that are participating in the parklet program have made significant investments 01:10:14.507 --> 01:10:21.502 - in those so it's it could be worked through but I would like for those investments to be able to be 01:10:21.730 --> 01:10:29.493 - I mean, they're wonderful and and completely ADA so that the mini ramps going into the dining areas 01:10:29.493 --> 01:10:37.256 - are no longer a thing It's all completely accessible from from the sidewalk. So I just want them to 01:10:37.256 --> 01:10:45.097 - be able to Use those investments in some some way. That's it. Those three anything else Thank you, I 01:10:45.097 --> 01:10:50.686 - kind of have some random things but well director Cooper Smith is there 01:10:50.786 --> 01:10:57.119 - I appreciate what you say about how you guys have already kind of thought about programming and various 01:10:57.119 --> 01:11:03.270 - things this year if you could maybe write up what you are planning so that that can go in the packet 01:11:03.270 --> 01:11:09.360 - just so that we can see that in terms of informing a decision about this for this year like I would 01:11:09.360 --> 01:11:15.511 - really appreciate that just so that I can really understand what what you guys are thinking about in 01:11:15.511 --> 01:11:17.886 - terms of activating that right now and 01:11:18.242 --> 01:11:26.285 - Yes, we have that so that would be really easy to share and I'll see if I can Thank you, thank you Can 01:11:26.285 --> 01:11:34.094 - I continue so another random thing I was just kind of looking at the calendar and realizing because 01:11:34.094 --> 01:11:42.527 - I watched the Transportation Commission last night too and I think that their special session was scheduled 01:11:42.527 --> 01:11:47.134 - for June 8th and our next meeting is actually June 3rd and 01:11:47.842 --> 01:11:58.414 - And so are we gonna postpone it on June 3rd or like to do the sponsors? Yes, yes, we First Transportation 01:11:58.414 --> 01:12:08.487 - Commission decided June 8th because they already had a planning Meeting that day and it got added on 01:12:08.487 --> 01:12:13.374 - to that and we did say we could depending on the 01:12:13.634 --> 01:12:19.843 - the will of council either have a second reading on the third and still wait for the 10th if there's 01:12:19.843 --> 01:12:26.053 - a lot that needs to get covered if there were like a lot of questions that could come back to have a 01:12:26.053 --> 01:12:32.447 - second reading you know probably pretty brief and then the final either a second or third reading would 01:12:32.447 --> 01:12:38.779 - be the 10th so it was like very flexible at this point okay great thank you and I have one more actual 01:12:38.779 --> 01:12:43.390 - question about it you you have permission for the city engineer to restore 01:12:43.490 --> 01:12:52.511 - Vehicular traffic in an emergency situation for up to 90 days before it requires approval by council. 01:12:52.511 --> 01:13:02.150 - Why'd you choose 90 days? I Took this from somewhere else in code and I don't remember where but I basically 01:13:02.150 --> 01:13:08.606 - copied it I don't know if anyone else knows where I got it Does anybody? 01:13:09.186 --> 01:13:16.133 - I guess I think that I got a constituent message about like 90 days being a lot. And yeah, that it could 01:13:16.133 --> 01:13:19.838 - be like the whole summer. And so I guess I just want to 01:13:20.194 --> 01:13:26.192 - Maybe maybe revisit that number a little bit really kind of think about what makes sense because like 01:13:26.192 --> 01:13:32.542 - a piece of what makes sense is Emergencies but another piece of what makes sense is like weather conditions 01:13:32.542 --> 01:13:38.481 - Which you can't always control at either end but like do we really need 90 days for that? So I guess 01:13:38.481 --> 01:13:44.361 - you know in the sake of discussion I would I would just want that investigated a little bit to make 01:13:44.361 --> 01:13:48.830 - sure that that's like A number for a reason Some emergencies are really big 01:13:48.962 --> 01:13:56.344 - I think mostly because of what has happened in the past. I was to imagining Sewer work construction 01:13:56.344 --> 01:14:03.947 - things like that where trucks might need to be in or the road is literally gone for a while But that's 01:14:03.947 --> 01:14:11.402 - great and in my notes to revisit. Can I add another please go and then comes to that director Cooper 01:14:11.402 --> 01:14:17.086 - Smith she's been a great sport and we have met formally once and We did chat 01:14:17.250 --> 01:14:24.865 - at the Transportation Commission, and we have another meeting in the books, I think, where Council Member 01:14:24.865 --> 01:14:32.048 - Daley is joining, if you can, did we? We actually may have scheduled it and then said we were going 01:14:32.048 --> 01:14:39.591 - to invite you in the exact little moment. But we did, we are just continuing to talk and throw out ideas 01:14:39.591 --> 01:14:47.134 - with this. So I think it's with ESD very open line of communication. Council Member Piedmont-Smith. Yes. 01:14:47.298 --> 01:14:56.004 - Isn't the board of public works involved in this decision or at least in the past when we temporarily 01:14:56.004 --> 01:15:04.710 - closed each year they had to agree to either the parklets or both parklets and closing the street. So 01:15:04.710 --> 01:15:13.246 - what is their role in this. They have been involved in the past in the in the past they had adopted 01:15:13.378 --> 01:15:19.908 - rules for the temporary closure. So specifically the participation of businesses, those rules were taken 01:15:19.908 --> 01:15:26.127 - to the Board of Public Works and they were adopted initially for businesses that were participating 01:15:26.127 --> 01:15:32.532 - in the parklet and the street closure program. Now generally the Board of Public Works does handle all 01:15:32.532 --> 01:15:39.000 - of the day-to-day logistical operations through the department of road closures. In terms of in statute 01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:40.990 - what's required whenever taking 01:15:41.282 --> 01:15:47.271 - bringing in ordinance like this that would alter Title 15. The Transportation Commission is the only 01:15:47.271 --> 01:15:53.674 - requirement in terms of a hard requirement for them to consider. The Board of Public Works not necessarily, 01:15:53.674 --> 01:15:59.189 - but it would be important, obviously, to have the department and the board's buy-in in terms 01:15:59.189 --> 01:16:05.118 - of implementation in the future. So has there been any outreach to the Board of Public Works or the 01:16:05.118 --> 01:16:09.150 - Director of Public Works? I met with Director Adam Wason yesterday. 01:16:11.874 --> 01:16:19.616 - We had a conversation. Somebody has to put up the bollards and stuff, too. That would be in his domain. 01:16:19.616 --> 01:16:27.581 - We didn't get into those details. Didn't get that into the weeds. Just more general talk about the closure 01:16:27.581 --> 01:16:35.398 - on a regular basis anyway. And he wasn't terribly supportive of it. He likes the idea. But logistically, 01:16:35.398 --> 01:16:41.502 - he had some issues with it that we agreed, well, maybe those could be worked out. 01:16:41.730 --> 01:16:49.216 - We didn't settle on anything. Okay. Well I would appreciate having a memo or something from him if he's 01:16:49.216 --> 01:16:56.918 - or just have him attend the next time we talk about this. Thank you. Yeah he wasn't available this evening 01:16:56.918 --> 01:16:58.718 - but he sent his regrets. 01:16:58.786 --> 01:17:04.166 - Excellent. Now, I'm mindful of time and the amount of things we have on the agenda, so I'm going to 01:17:04.166 --> 01:17:09.546 - move to public comment. Just saying, just ahead of time so you all can think about it, after public 01:17:09.546 --> 01:17:14.926 - comment it would be useful if you had any things that the sponsors had asked that this be sort of a 01:17:14.926 --> 01:17:20.306 - generative conversation. So if there's things that you would like to see added to this, no pressure 01:17:20.306 --> 01:17:25.847 - if you don't have them, but I think would be helpful for the sponsors if there's any sort of direction 01:17:25.847 --> 01:17:28.752 - that you have for them. So I'll open it up for public 01:17:28.752 --> 01:17:35.079 - public comment. Does anybody want to comment on Ordinance 2026-12? And same rules as always, 01:17:35.079 --> 01:17:42.155 - please sign in, say your name or alias, same if you're online and you'll have three minutes to comment. 01:17:42.155 --> 01:17:48.958 - We'll start in chambers and I'll go online afterwards. Go ahead. Hi, Joshua Stockton. I just wanted 01:17:48.958 --> 01:17:55.829 - to briefly comment on my experience using the library and that specific section of road. The library 01:17:55.829 --> 01:17:57.054 - does get a lot of 01:17:57.250 --> 01:18:03.591 - especially in their parking lot, and it eventually does spill over into the adjacent area of street 01:18:03.591 --> 01:18:10.060 - parking. So I found myself oftentimes parking in that section of road. And I also wanted to highlight 01:18:10.060 --> 01:18:16.908 - the importance that there are two accessible parking spots on that section of road in front of the library, 01:18:16.908 --> 01:18:23.250 - as well as seven more parking spots. So closing that road would eliminate those spots. Thank you so 01:18:23.250 --> 01:18:25.406 - much. Next commenter in chambers. 01:18:26.786 --> 01:18:33.970 - Hello, I'm Greg Alexander. So first thing, I have to say this. The data that ESD presented showing fewer 01:18:33.970 --> 01:18:40.881 - visits on Kirkwood is bogus. It's provided by a vendor called Placer.ai. Placer claims that they use 01:18:40.881 --> 01:18:47.928 - opt-in data collection. Did you opt into that? I didn't. Nobody did. It's spyware. What they do is you 01:18:47.928 --> 01:18:55.454 - install an app that says it'll do one thing and instead it sends information to advertisers and data mongers. 01:18:55.714 --> 01:19:02.187 - And then they use AI to turn that spotty data based on people that were gullible enough to take a virus 01:19:02.187 --> 01:19:08.598 - onto their phone and they extrapolate for the rest of us that's Very poor methodology if you had asked 01:19:08.598 --> 01:19:14.946 - a planner instead of ESD They would have said this is very hard data to get but instead we got a very 01:19:14.946 --> 01:19:18.494 - gullible department that but silicon snake oil I'm sorry 01:19:19.106 --> 01:19:24.211 - It's non-information. You don't know, I don't know whether it's more or less, and that's really unfortunate. 01:19:24.211 --> 01:19:28.895 - I'd like to know that. But for decades, I've heard a ton of people saying, I will never go downtown 01:19:28.895 --> 01:19:33.625 - if. And frankly, I don't listen to that because they either go downtown or they don't. They continue 01:19:33.625 --> 01:19:38.497 - to go downtown if they're the kind of people that go downtown. They continue to not if they don't. They 01:19:38.497 --> 01:19:43.368 - don't change their behavior based on all the things that drivers complain about. So I'm gonna buck that 01:19:43.368 --> 01:19:46.974 - trend. I'm gonna say outright the truth. I don't think I'll go downtown more 01:19:47.266 --> 01:19:54.326 - if you close it to cars. I'll go downtown either way. But if I'm not quite so close to cars while I'm 01:19:54.326 --> 01:20:01.318 - walking or eating or playing with my kids, I will enjoy it more. For me at least, the quantity won't 01:20:01.318 --> 01:20:08.516 - change, but the quality will. And I think we really shouldn't be focusing on numbers, number of visits, 01:20:08.516 --> 01:20:15.646 - number of minutes, number of dollars. We should be looking at the quality of the place and look at IU. 01:20:16.002 --> 01:20:21.733 - For example, I went to IU because it was so cheap. My parents were staff. I got a huge discount. A lot 01:20:21.733 --> 01:20:27.353 - of my friends were paying out-of-state tuition, like literally eight or 10 times as much as I was. I 01:20:27.353 --> 01:20:33.307 - couldn't believe it, so I would ask them. And they said, I came for a visit, and it was the most beautiful 01:20:33.307 --> 01:20:38.927 - campus I'd ever seen. And that didn't happen by accident. You know, I take it for granted. I grew up 01:20:38.927 --> 01:20:44.158 - here. I was playing pooh sticks in Jordan River before I could, you know. And that was built. 01:20:44.482 --> 01:20:51.685 - Herman Wells said we're going to emphasize quality of place and we're gonna let the numbers take care 01:20:51.685 --> 01:20:58.958 - of themselves and that works Please have faith in making a quality place downtown. Thank you Thank you 01:20:58.958 --> 01:21:06.019 - so much our next commentor in chambers and then I'll move on then Paul Russo Thank you for bringing 01:21:06.019 --> 01:21:10.750 - this forward I'm a strong supporter of the idea three quick points 01:21:11.394 --> 01:21:19.386 - With regard to the public library, I routinely see small BT access buses in the parking lot in the back 01:21:19.386 --> 01:21:27.377 - of the library. So they do come in and out, and they do pick up people there. Second point is that with 01:21:27.377 --> 01:21:35.599 - regard to the timeline, I would remind you that there is currently rather adversarial relationship between 01:21:35.599 --> 01:21:39.134 - the legislative and the executive, and if you 01:21:39.938 --> 01:21:48.537 - Pass this on your 10th June 10th meeting and the mirror vetoes it That's six weeks gone until your next 01:21:48.537 --> 01:21:57.053 - meeting Whereas if you pass it on the third You have time to come back and override a veto and you are 01:21:57.053 --> 01:22:03.998 - this is something that is overriding what she wanted to do so consider that and the 01:22:04.578 --> 01:22:12.092 - Other issue is that again possibly having to do with the answer adversarial relationship. I would advise 01:22:12.092 --> 01:22:19.320 - not having 90 days Because we already have a city that is abusing I think in my opinion for whatever 01:22:19.320 --> 01:22:26.548 - reason not impugning anybody's motives, but the 180 day orders are consecutively consecutively being 01:22:26.548 --> 01:22:31.486 - used and I think those are supposed to be an emergency basis only so 01:22:31.650 --> 01:22:37.919 - We have a precedent here for emergency orders being abused. Thank you. Thank you. We'll move online. 01:22:37.919 --> 01:22:44.250 - Are there any commenters online? All right, back in chambers. Good evening. This is Chris Ramsey from 01:22:44.250 --> 01:22:50.768 - the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce, a membership organization with 900 businesses. 80% of those 01:22:50.768 --> 01:22:57.037 - are small and nonprofits. We're kind of getting into a little bit of the summer repeats. I feel like 01:22:57.037 --> 01:23:01.630 - I've been up here. I've talked about this. I think I've blogged about it. 01:23:01.730 --> 01:23:08.415 - Kirkwoods, when there's festivals happening, outdoor dining, and it really comes together, it's where 01:23:08.415 --> 01:23:15.101 - people come, where we have community. But the real question before us is are we prepared to build the 01:23:15.101 --> 01:23:21.655 - infrastructure needed to support what would increasingly become a permanent pedestrian district? We 01:23:21.655 --> 01:23:28.275 - can't just say no cars and it becomes this high quality Herman B. Wells vision of a pedestrian mall. 01:23:28.275 --> 01:23:30.110 - It's much more complicated. 01:23:30.210 --> 01:23:35.828 - Than that I mean because it no longer we're dealing with a temporary pilot the ordinance speaks to long-term 01:23:35.828 --> 01:23:41.189 - certainty predictability of seasonal schedules and more permanent civic environment It's a major policy 01:23:41.189 --> 01:23:46.498 - shift and I understand it. I thought Councilmember daily did a wonderful job of sort of presenting the 01:23:46.498 --> 01:23:51.653 - legislation But we're moving that direction We need to recognize that these districts don't succeed 01:23:51.653 --> 01:23:57.117 - it simply by closing streets We don't just that it doesn't make a pedestrian mall doing that they succeed 01:23:57.117 --> 01:24:00.158 - when we invest in the systems and make them functional and 01:24:00.354 --> 01:24:06.278 - Accessible and sustainable. I think right now we're putting a little bit of the cart before the horse 01:24:06.278 --> 01:24:12.086 - Many of the businesses I know even that ones that support feel like the The vision is moving faster 01:24:12.086 --> 01:24:17.952 - than the infrastructure behind it. The chamber has never taken a stand on the Kirkwood closure We've 01:24:17.952 --> 01:24:24.340 - been very much split with our members on that it works for a lot of some of the downtown bars and restaurants 01:24:24.340 --> 01:24:28.638 - and other ones I know the bicycles shopping one of them didn't support it 01:24:28.802 --> 01:24:35.941 - And there's other issues we'll maybe get into later, but I think the main one right now that we gotta 01:24:35.941 --> 01:24:43.291 - think about is the infrastructure. Are we closing it way too early before we've really got that in place 01:24:43.291 --> 01:24:50.290 - and where we're kind of creating more of a pedestrian desert than an oasis? Thank you. Thank you so 01:24:50.290 --> 01:24:52.670 - much. Next commenter in chambers. 01:24:58.242 --> 01:25:06.848 - Hi Steve Olin I wanted to speak individually not as a chair of the Transportation Commission to talk 01:25:06.848 --> 01:25:15.880 - about a few of the issues that I know we're going to be looking at. One of the reasons that we're talking 01:25:15.880 --> 01:25:22.526 - about who has the authority to make decisions about street closures came from 01:25:22.978 --> 01:25:30.063 - a debate that some veteran members of council would recall as to whether or not the engineer, whether 01:25:30.063 --> 01:25:37.079 - or not every street control or closure should be in city code or whether it should be abstracted out 01:25:37.079 --> 01:25:44.025 - to an administrative document that will be overseen by what is now the director of engineering. And 01:25:44.025 --> 01:25:51.250 - so it's an administrative issue, but it did start, that's where this debate over, well, who should have 01:25:51.250 --> 01:25:52.222 - the authority 01:25:52.354 --> 01:25:59.465 - Came from and it's I think actually a problem that you all are going to be you know You're already thinking 01:25:59.465 --> 01:26:05.522 - about it and you're going to be facing it soon enough It's a little bit above our pay grade 01:26:05.522 --> 01:26:12.304 - at the Transportation Commission We are also going to be looking at the various ways that a street can 01:26:12.304 --> 01:26:17.374 - be closed partially as well as fully Jersey barriers bollards and the like I 01:26:17.762 --> 01:26:24.898 - We want to talk about the significance of parking and how to measure the value of it as an asset and 01:26:24.898 --> 01:26:32.105 - what data is really reliable rather than anecdotal for the commission to use in deliberating on these 01:26:32.105 --> 01:26:39.312 - issues. The legal question is also one that's a notch above us. We are actually waiting for some kind 01:26:39.312 --> 01:26:41.502 - of guidance because there is a 01:26:41.666 --> 01:26:48.516 - That's is still in dispute who has authority. I mean my personal belief is that it is the council's 01:26:48.516 --> 01:26:55.708 - authority ultimately To decide to close streets a reminder that the Board of Public Works is represented 01:26:55.708 --> 01:27:02.763 - on our body Rick Coppock is the representative appointed by the Board of Public Works so they're aware 01:27:02.763 --> 01:27:09.886 - of what we do director Wason was at our recent meeting on Monday and We're regularly in touch with them 01:27:10.274 --> 01:27:17.772 - The June 10th date was also decided because we want to give staff the time to be able to create a memo. 01:27:17.772 --> 01:27:25.126 - We're expecting that we're gonna be able to present you with some documentation from consulting Board 01:27:25.126 --> 01:27:32.335 - of Public Works, the engineering department, the planning department, whoever is going to be tasked 01:27:32.335 --> 01:27:37.598 - with, I mean planning should be making a recommendation on this as well. 01:27:37.698 --> 01:27:45.084 - Fine and finally the the last thing to say is that when multiple departments and interests are stakeholders 01:27:45.084 --> 01:27:52.060 - Who should be making policy? We're gonna tee up as much as we can But this issue is one we're looking 01:27:52.060 --> 01:27:58.967 - to you for guidance on which department or departments should be making should should outrank others 01:27:58.967 --> 01:28:06.558 - make the final decision on policy last thing is But that's your time The mayor has ten days to override a veto 01:28:06.786 --> 01:28:17.146 - So you won't be able to override. Thank you. Any other comments in chambers? Good evening. Chris Sturbaum. 01:28:17.146 --> 01:28:27.602 - I spend my Saturdays with my grandson. We call it Grandpa Saturdays. And we usually often head to Kirkwood, 01:28:27.602 --> 01:28:36.606 - and he likes Goodfellas pizza. And you know what? My memory of Kirkwood in the summer, Bear, 01:28:36.962 --> 01:28:44.811 - tables sitting in the hot sun with like three or four people out on the tables. That's just what we 01:28:44.811 --> 01:28:53.131 - see. We also find it harder to get to good fellows. I become an expert on old people or I'm fast becoming 01:28:53.131 --> 01:29:01.215 - an expert on old people and old people don't get around the same way young people get around. And when 01:29:01.215 --> 01:29:06.238 - you think about taking away what the concept of a shared street 01:29:06.882 --> 01:29:14.363 - Means there's place for people their place for cars. There's even parking but when it's a barricaded 01:29:14.363 --> 01:29:21.771 - street, you know with empty tables inside it we have to we find like we have to work our way to get 01:29:21.771 --> 01:29:29.178 - into Goodfellas and He's a better walker than I am and I don't walk that far anymore but just think 01:29:29.178 --> 01:29:35.326 - about the rest of the continuous constituency that is older and the funny thing is 01:29:36.194 --> 01:29:42.945 - The students have left town. So now sometimes the townies take over and they'd like to go downtown. 01:29:42.945 --> 01:29:49.697 - And sometimes that feels more like a barricade than a wonderland. So I just wanted to give you that 01:29:49.697 --> 01:29:56.448 - perspective. Thank you. Thank you so much. Last chance for people online. Fantastic. All right. Any 01:29:56.448 --> 01:30:03.267 - final comments? And thank you all for your comments. Any final direction comments that you'd like to 01:30:03.267 --> 01:30:05.022 - offer Councilmember Ruff? 01:30:09.410 --> 01:30:17.895 - We spend a lot more time thinking about an implementation thinking about timeline It just seems to me 01:30:17.895 --> 01:30:26.547 - like there's the fundamental question of whether the administration Is going to say and I want to thank 01:30:26.547 --> 01:30:35.032 - dr. Cooper Smith very much for being here But whether the administration is going to assert that this 01:30:35.032 --> 01:30:38.526 - is not within the council's peer view and 01:30:39.042 --> 01:30:49.870 - seems to be come before any of these other discussions because If it comes down to a dispute the council 01:30:49.870 --> 01:31:00.182 - doesn't have staff to Implement the measures to turn the street into a pedestrian way for a part of 01:31:00.182 --> 01:31:08.638 - the year So if it's a stalemate it doesn't happen Does it lead to a further legal 01:31:08.962 --> 01:31:17.680 - Confrontation that's a long time in coming then so You know one of the first dramatic things that this 01:31:17.680 --> 01:31:26.484 - new administration did when the term began one of the early ones besides telling council that That they 01:31:26.484 --> 01:31:35.710 - would not support any or indoor sign any resolutions that the administration deemed not really city business 01:31:35.842 --> 01:31:42.839 - One of the other first initial big things dramatic steps that was taken changes from prior administrations 01:31:42.839 --> 01:31:49.379 - was to assert that title 15 that Council didn't have any purview over what happened on the streets, 01:31:49.379 --> 01:31:56.180 - right? That was a purely administration business And judging it based on how quickly the administration 01:31:56.180 --> 01:32:01.150 - from beginning till the very end asserted over and over again the Council's 01:32:01.378 --> 01:32:09.542 - Ability or lack of ability to us have reasonable conditions on the Hopewell project. I'm I'm sort of 01:32:09.542 --> 01:32:17.787 - I Don't understand why we don't have a firmer Statement of position from the administration right now 01:32:17.787 --> 01:32:26.033 - on this and I just I don't really want to spend much more of my own time and I don't think council or 01:32:26.033 --> 01:32:27.326 - public time and 01:32:27.650 --> 01:32:33.679 - on talking about implementation and timelines, et cetera, et cetera, until we know, you know, what is 01:32:33.679 --> 01:32:39.944 - the position going to be? Is it going to be that council does? Because then the veto doesn't even matter. 01:32:39.944 --> 01:32:45.913 - The mayor doesn't need to veto something. The administration says that we don't have the right to do 01:32:45.913 --> 01:32:51.824 - it, and they're just not going to do it because they disagree. Then there's no need for a veto. So, 01:32:51.824 --> 01:32:55.902 - you know, a lot of what we're doing here, and I appreciate very much 01:32:56.546 --> 01:33:03.686 - My council colleagues are bringing this forward And again, I appreciate director Coopersmith being here 01:33:03.686 --> 01:33:10.621 - But I think there's a fundamental question that we need to know Soon very soon before we really take 01:33:10.621 --> 01:33:17.624 - this much farther and it spends much more time discussing it So that was my final comment. Thank you. 01:33:17.624 --> 01:33:24.558 - Thank you so much Councillor Flaherty. Thank you I'm excited generally about the prospect of opening 01:33:24.558 --> 01:33:26.206 - Kirkwood to pedestrians 01:33:26.338 --> 01:33:33.564 - not a closure, it's just framing, you know, do we open it to cars, do we open it to pedestrians, at 01:33:33.564 --> 01:33:40.934 - no point will the street be closed, it will be open at different times for different uses. Second, on 01:33:40.934 --> 01:33:48.232 - the point of council authority, I guess, Council Member Ruff just kind of covered this, there's also 01:33:48.232 --> 01:33:49.822 - been other instances. 01:33:51.074 --> 01:33:56.609 - Corporation counsel has sort of been casting doubt on counsel's authority, and then we end up in this 01:33:56.609 --> 01:34:02.090 - sort of limbo where they essentially have what they want, which is we're not regulating anything via 01:34:02.090 --> 01:34:07.733 - Title 15 anymore. I'm reminded of this monthly at Transportation Commission when Director Seaborg comes 01:34:07.733 --> 01:34:13.159 - and reminds us of the ever-expanding list of 180-day orders that are being extended and extended in 01:34:13.159 --> 01:34:18.640 - perpetuity. I actually don't think that's acceptable. I think our temporary counsel attorney support 01:34:18.640 --> 01:34:20.702 - mentioned Bloomington Code 15.08.040, 01:34:20.994 --> 01:34:26.218 - which is about enabling, empowering rather, the city engineer to make such regulations in the first 01:34:26.218 --> 01:34:31.182 - place, the administration's violating that code right now, no question. By its letter, there's 01:34:31.182 --> 01:34:36.458 - no optionality, shall not remain in effect for more than 180 days. In the event they want to make it 01:34:36.458 --> 01:34:41.369 - permanent, they shall be made in writing that request and submitted to the common council for 01:34:41.369 --> 01:34:46.751 - its consideration prior to the expiration of the order. They've been violating this for years, they've 01:34:46.751 --> 01:34:50.878 - been doing it more egregiously since the mayor took office, it's unacceptable. 01:34:51.522 --> 01:34:57.543 - So I'm not okay with that. I think we need to seek resolution immediately. And if not, seek to hold 01:34:57.543 --> 01:35:03.625 - the administration accountable for violating city law. Third point, this goes to Mr. Emgy's point. I 01:35:03.625 --> 01:35:09.707 - think he's right to some degree. I don't think it's a cart horse. I don't think we should choose not 01:35:09.707 --> 01:35:15.849 - to proceed because we haven't decided every issue. But you're right, the, let's say, mixed experience 01:35:15.849 --> 01:35:19.582 - and diverse perspectives around just how successful it's been 01:35:19.746 --> 01:35:26.410 - to open Kirkwood to pedestrians while closing it to cars for periods of time is it's largely chalked 01:35:26.410 --> 01:35:33.405 - up to a failure of vision, not a failure of possibility. And look at Burlington, Charlottesville, Ithaca, 01:35:33.405 --> 01:35:40.135 - Boulder, Iowa City. All of these places have wonderful pedestrian malls that have been successful for 01:35:40.135 --> 01:35:45.150 - many decades. Boulder, among the longest standing, Pearl Street in Boulder, 01:35:45.282 --> 01:35:51.959 - been open to pedestrians and other users besides cars for half a century. That took vision. I once read 01:35:51.959 --> 01:35:58.507 - the story of how it was created. It took a lot of work to get it done. There was a lot of opposition, 01:35:58.507 --> 01:36:05.312 - as you might expect. And it's amazing. It makes that town to a significant extent. We have that potential 01:36:05.312 --> 01:36:11.797 - here. It takes vision. I know that's not coming from this mayor. The question is whether the council 01:36:11.797 --> 01:36:14.814 - can use its authority both to create the legal 01:36:15.394 --> 01:36:21.043 - structure, I guess, necessary to enact this, but then also through the budget process. If we want to 01:36:21.043 --> 01:36:26.636 - see this done, let's see it done. We can accelerate these things. We can choose what to prioritize. 01:36:26.636 --> 01:36:32.285 - We can focus that attention and have that infrastructure redesign that's needed to make this a truly 01:36:32.285 --> 01:36:38.046 - wonderful pedestrian mall experience. It's so naturally suited to it from the courthouse square to the 01:36:38.046 --> 01:36:44.254 - sample gates. I hope we can get it done. I very much appreciate my colleagues for bringing this back after the 01:36:44.482 --> 01:36:50.819 - Shannigan's a couple months ago with the other ordinance that did this. Thank you Thank you so much 01:36:50.819 --> 01:36:54.494 - any other comments Fantastic go ahead councilmember daily 01:36:54.914 --> 01:37:00.738 - Just wanted to really quickly thank councilmember Rosenberger for all her really hard and amazing work 01:37:00.738 --> 01:37:06.449 - on doing this. Thank you And all of the you know city staff that we've met with and have been giving 01:37:06.449 --> 01:37:12.103 - us their feedback, especially Director Cooper Smith for being here this evening and director Cooper 01:37:12.103 --> 01:37:17.814 - Smith. I'm really sorry that we cause you heartburn I will try to not cause you as much heartburn as 01:37:17.814 --> 01:37:22.846 - possible But that's it I just want to thank everybody for their comments tonight, too. I 01:37:24.642 --> 01:37:30.902 - One more real fast because councilmember Flaherty is talk about budgeting and that we have budget power 01:37:30.902 --> 01:37:37.221 - reminded me of our 2027 budget priorities letter that I sent to the administration and one of the things 01:37:37.221 --> 01:37:43.601 - on that priority list was creating vibrant third places slash neighborhood hubs which included activating 01:37:43.601 --> 01:37:50.222 - vacant space and investing and ensuring public spaces are high quality engaging and active and the activation 01:37:50.222 --> 01:37:51.486 - of Kirkwood could be 01:37:52.066 --> 01:37:58.612 - It absolutely falls under that I think that it was even mentioned specifically but I just wanted to 01:37:58.612 --> 01:38:05.419 - point that out both to the public to council members and also to any administration Officials including 01:38:05.419 --> 01:38:11.964 - the mayor who may be watching this meeting. Thank you Excellent excellent, I would like to take the 01:38:11.964 --> 01:38:19.230 - privilege of saying the last thing of just saying I echo all the things that were said so Okay, we any motions 01:38:20.962 --> 01:38:29.957 - I move I motion to move this to June 3rd Second there's a motion in the second any discussion All those 01:38:29.957 --> 01:38:38.778 - in favor. Hi Any opposed I just had one point of discussion just that at this time Council members or 01:38:38.778 --> 01:38:47.687 - anyone else has anything, you know, we council member daily and I are accepting questions and comments 01:38:47.687 --> 01:38:48.638 - great. Yes 01:38:48.962 --> 01:38:58.414 - Well, we already passed the motion to move it in nine. Oh So let us move on. Thank you very much. We'll 01:38:58.414 --> 01:39:07.684 - now move to legislation for second readings and resolutions I Move that resolution 20 2605 Be read by 01:39:07.684 --> 01:39:16.772 - title and synopsis only second. There's a motion and a second any discussion All those in favor say 01:39:16.772 --> 01:39:18.590 - aye aye any opposed 01:39:19.554 --> 01:39:30.494 - Alright that motion carries eight. Oh Will the clerk please read Resolution 20 2605 a resolution to 01:39:30.494 --> 01:39:41.652 - initiate a proposal to amend title 20 unified development ordinance of the Bloomington Municipal Code 01:39:41.652 --> 01:39:49.310 - in order to improve sustainability and housing affordability synopsis 01:39:49.538 --> 01:39:57.768 - This resolution sponsored by council member Flaherty directs the plan commission to prepare amendments 01:39:57.768 --> 01:40:05.918 - to the unified development ordinance regarding one, a reduction of minimum lot widths, lot areas, and 01:40:05.918 --> 01:40:13.349 - building setback requirement to better align with Bloomington's historic form and character. 01:40:13.349 --> 01:40:19.262 - Two, sustainability incentives and planned unit development requirements. 01:40:19.458 --> 01:40:28.318 - for building electrification and Three the elimination of minimum parking requirements to facilitate 01:40:28.318 --> 01:40:37.090 - housing development and reduce housing costs I move that resolution 2020 605 be adopted second. All 01:40:37.090 --> 01:40:46.038 - right councilmember Flaherty Thank you. So it's been a minute, but I did present on this maybe six to 01:40:46.038 --> 01:40:48.670 - eight weeks ago at some point 01:40:48.994 --> 01:40:56.463 - And what I'd like to suggest to start actually is that we just consider an amendment that was needed 01:40:56.463 --> 01:41:03.857 - to kind of clean something up. And in fact, there was an amendment 1A that went out with a clerical 01:41:03.857 --> 01:41:11.326 - correction in your packet this afternoon. There was a typo, I was off by one section of Indiana code 01:41:11.326 --> 01:41:13.470 - that was referenced in 80.5. 01:41:13.602 --> 01:41:21.192 - After one of the the citations, so that's that's an amendment 1a and I'd like to move we adopt Amendment 01:41:21.192 --> 01:41:28.420 - 1a to resolution 2026 with six second Go ahead So, I don't know if it's helpful to display every we 01:41:28.420 --> 01:41:35.793 - could basically this this is to amend section 6 of the of the resolution section 6 covers the process 01:41:35.793 --> 01:41:41.214 - that will follow from this resolution, so it's a state-defined process for 01:41:41.602 --> 01:41:47.705 - council-initiated recommendations to the Plan Commission for UDO changes. So it used to be a 90-day 01:41:47.705 --> 01:41:54.052 - window in total for the Plan Commission to develop a consider proposal and get back to the council with 01:41:54.052 --> 01:42:00.215 - a recommendation. Now it's sort of bifurcated to 60-day windows that are up to 60 days. So they have 01:42:00.215 --> 01:42:06.623 - to hold a public hearing within the first 60 days, the Plan Commission does, and then it says they shall 01:42:06.623 --> 01:42:10.590 - vote on a proposal within 60 days of holding the public hearing. 01:42:10.882 --> 01:42:19.266 - And so yeah, that's the new process that was changed in state code I think a year ago when this was 01:42:19.266 --> 01:42:27.818 - first, a prior version of this resolution was drafted. Previously that was not the case. So I was not 01:42:27.818 --> 01:42:36.788 - aware of that when I brought this back in the form this year and that's why the correction. Any questions? 01:42:36.788 --> 01:42:38.046 - No, seeing no. 01:42:38.178 --> 01:42:50.240 - We'll move to public comment then does anybody like would anybody like to comment specifically on amendment 01:42:50.240 --> 01:43:01.854 - one to Ordinance resolution 2026 oh five Just on the amendment Is does this deal with the parking issue 01:43:01.854 --> 01:43:07.550 - Amendment one or are there three different issues? 01:43:08.578 --> 01:43:15.851 - three different amendments that We don't usually answer but I bet that you know, we should I don't As 01:43:15.851 --> 01:43:23.338 - a point of information this amendment is is only clarifying Some code references in the synopsis, right? 01:43:23.338 --> 01:43:30.826 - I'm not necessary synopsis section 6. It's about the process to plan commission uses to consider Changes 01:43:30.826 --> 01:43:36.958 - it's not about the substance of any changes. Oh, that's Issues but those issues don't 01:43:37.186 --> 01:43:43.897 - Anything to do with this is that what you're not with this amendment, but you'll get a chance to comment 01:43:43.897 --> 01:43:50.545 - on the broader thing Which is included there. Yes Thank you Good evening, Dave Askins with the B square 01:43:50.545 --> 01:43:57.129 - bulletin. I think that mr. Allen can confirm What I'm about to say is correct councilmember Flaherty's 01:43:57.129 --> 01:44:03.776 - recitation of the history is just factually wrong This 260 day windows have always been In place that's 01:44:03.776 --> 01:44:05.374 - the way it's always been 01:44:07.202 --> 01:44:15.256 - and the use of a 90-day window that was based on the advice of past city council's legal counsel that 01:44:15.256 --> 01:44:23.310 - I think was just flat-out inaccurate. But I think that, according to Mr. Allen, the synopsis has been 01:44:23.310 --> 01:44:31.917 - corrected to reflect the accurate history of the legislation. And I'm content that in writing it's accurate, 01:44:31.917 --> 01:44:36.734 - but what Councilmember Flaherty just recited is not, thanks. 01:44:41.986 --> 01:44:52.734 - Any other commenters in the chambers? Anyone online? Okay, we will come back to amendment one. Council 01:44:52.734 --> 01:45:03.482 - member Fleuraday. Just thank you to Mr. Askins for the correction. Glad we've got it right in writing. 01:45:03.482 --> 01:45:11.934 - That's what we count on our staff for. Thank you. Any other comments? Questions? 01:45:12.066 --> 01:45:21.739 - Happy to take a vote on amendment one If there was a motion I think yeah, sorry. We already have a motion. 01:45:21.739 --> 01:45:31.322 - Can we do a voice vote on this? Clerk we have to do it individual. Will you please call the roll? Council 01:45:31.322 --> 01:45:41.086 - members Tosberg. Yes, Piedmont Smith. Yes, Zulek. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes, Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes, Ruff. Yes. I 01:45:41.474 --> 01:45:49.721 - Rosenberger yes clarity Yes Okay now now the bill as amended So as I noted I did have a PowerPoint 01:45:49.721 --> 01:45:58.051 - presentation on this that I presented previously when we first heard it So I don't feel the need to 01:45:58.051 --> 01:46:06.382 - go through that again also in the packet Somehow the file is not not readable Which I was at a work 01:46:06.382 --> 01:46:09.214 - event all week and didn't catch a 01:46:09.538 --> 01:46:15.547 - to correct it earlier, but again, no matter, I don't think I need to present that PowerPoint. Again, 01:46:15.547 --> 01:46:21.735 - what I'd like to do is just kind of do a brief or talk through of the policy aims here and the sections 01:46:21.735 --> 01:46:28.101 - of the resolution so that, yeah, just to refresh, because it's been a minute. So is it possible to display 01:46:28.101 --> 01:46:33.694 - the resolution itself and maybe zoom in a little bit on the sections as I kind of go through? 01:46:39.106 --> 01:46:46.759 - Okay, so high level I mean this is about three Policy areas that are all in city goals and plans that 01:46:46.759 --> 01:46:54.261 - we've adopted They all relate to sustainability and affordability hence the title of the resolution 01:46:54.261 --> 01:47:02.364 - And I'll break it down into three sections so we could go to the first section And those first two sections 01:47:02.364 --> 01:47:07.166 - are about housing most squarely in particular that we need more 01:47:07.394 --> 01:47:13.883 - housing of all kinds. We need more market rate housing, but that market rate housing is not a binary. 01:47:13.883 --> 01:47:20.309 - Adding more housing could be suburban sprawl. It could be high density multifamily. We've definitely 01:47:20.309 --> 01:47:26.862 - had some of that. It can also be infill, and in particular, infill with modest home sizes, and in some 01:47:26.862 --> 01:47:33.224 - cases, missing middle housing. This proposal has nothing to do with missing middle housing. It only 01:47:33.224 --> 01:47:34.814 - has to do with basically 01:47:35.170 --> 01:47:41.123 - removing some barriers to developing the type of housing that we've always developed historically. 01:47:41.123 --> 01:47:47.438 - And namely, that is allowing smaller homes on smaller lots, which when compared like for like with other 01:47:47.438 --> 01:47:53.692 - adjacent housing, is more affordable. I will say new construction is rarely the most affordable because 01:47:53.692 --> 01:47:59.706 - it's expensive to build things new. But we have a housing system, and as things age over time, they 01:47:59.706 --> 01:48:01.630 - tend to become more affordable. 01:48:01.762 --> 01:48:09.973 - And also, again, when you're comparing apples to apples, smaller lots, less land, smaller homes all 01:48:09.973 --> 01:48:18.267 - mean more affordable relative to bigger lots, bigger homes, et cetera, under the same conditions. So 01:48:18.267 --> 01:48:26.560 - to enable that, section one looks to basically the residential zoning areas and looks at the minimum 01:48:26.560 --> 01:48:27.710 - lot sizes and 01:48:28.258 --> 01:48:35.737 - the lot widths, which are, as currently in the UDO, much bigger than the historical development patterns 01:48:35.737 --> 01:48:43.145 - of Bloomington. And my PowerPoint presentation that I presented to you all previously demonstrated that 01:48:43.145 --> 01:48:50.268 - with some different neighborhoods throughout town, that we had 2,500 square foot, 3,000 square foot 01:48:50.268 --> 01:48:57.390 - lots with modest homes. We don't allow those anymore in code. Section two covers some related areas 01:48:57.390 --> 01:48:58.174 - which have 01:48:58.338 --> 01:49:04.936 - Basically, when you change minimum lot sizes and minimum widths, to make that functional, you probably 01:49:04.936 --> 01:49:11.278 - need to look at some things like the setbacks, possibly the subdivision requirements, lot frontage 01:49:11.278 --> 01:49:17.941 - requirements, things like that. Maybe impervious surface coverage. So this just calls out some of those 01:49:17.941 --> 01:49:24.411 - things that might be corollaries to changing minimum lot size and width that the planning commission 01:49:24.411 --> 01:49:27.550 - and staff supporting them will need to consider. 01:49:27.938 --> 01:49:33.866 - Sections one and two, which again are about basically enabling the type of development that we used 01:49:33.866 --> 01:49:39.795 - to have that we no longer allow. Moving on to section three, this is kind of the second substantive 01:49:39.795 --> 01:49:45.782 - area of the resolution, sections three and four. So this is about adding, beyond the efficiency that 01:49:45.782 --> 01:49:51.829 - is already a part of our, like energy efficiency that is already a part of our incentives in the UDO, 01:49:51.829 --> 01:49:53.726 - adding electrification to that. 01:49:53.826 --> 01:49:59.368 - So from an affordability perspective from a resident health perspective and from a sustainability standpoint 01:49:59.368 --> 01:50:04.707 - high efficiency all electric buildings are the only viable path that's aligned with our city commitments 01:50:04.707 --> 01:50:10.046 - and long-standing goals on reducing climate pollution and when efficiency and electrification are paired 01:50:10.046 --> 01:50:14.622 - it's both cost competitive in new construction and lower cost operationally over time and 01:50:15.074 --> 01:50:21.141 - And so what this aims to do, and we can't mandate these things by the way. We can't mandate electrification 01:50:21.141 --> 01:50:26.871 - in the same way we can't mandate inclusionary zoning and that we can't mandate energy efficiency that 01:50:26.871 --> 01:50:32.658 - goes beyond state code. And so what we rely on for those things that we value in Bloomington but don't 01:50:32.658 --> 01:50:38.332 - have the home rule authority to enact as mandates, we use the incentives, the power of incentives in 01:50:38.332 --> 01:50:44.062 - the UDO. And so that's what this would do. It would bring electrification into the incentive section. 01:50:44.258 --> 01:50:52.276 - around sustainability and that's it, that's what it would do. If we wanna scroll down to section four, 01:50:52.276 --> 01:51:00.217 - it would then also have PUDs mirror that by requiring the PUDs to follow some path on the sustainable 01:51:00.217 --> 01:51:08.235 - development incentives in the incentive section of the UDO. So PUDs right now, we already require that 01:51:08.235 --> 01:51:11.038 - on the housing affordability front. 01:51:11.330 --> 01:51:17.210 - On the sustainability front, it's a little looser. It does reference it, but it's sort of like left 01:51:17.210 --> 01:51:23.208 - at the discretion of the planning director. And so it's kind of wishy washy right now, what we expect 01:51:23.208 --> 01:51:29.088 - on the sustainability front from PUDs. And I'll note here specifically that our Bloomington Climate 01:51:29.088 --> 01:51:35.086 - Action Plan explicitly calls for requiring building electrification in PUDs, electrification in PUDs. 01:51:35.086 --> 01:51:39.614 - So that's implementing or would implement what's in the Climate Action Plan. 01:51:40.418 --> 01:51:46.726 - Okay, so on to section 5 the third substantive area of this resolution This also is called for in the 01:51:46.726 --> 01:51:52.910 - climate action plan and it's about eliminating minimum parking requirements Throughout the city and 01:51:52.910 --> 01:51:59.218 - so a few things about that. It does not change maximum parking requirements That is it doesn't change 01:51:59.218 --> 01:52:06.206 - what people can choose to build None of that would change what it does do is it stops mandating? parking where a 01:52:06.466 --> 01:52:12.425 - housing builder may choose not to include it for various reasons. It could be that the type of clientele 01:52:12.425 --> 01:52:18.214 - or prospective tenants or owners that they want to cater to are not folks that need or prefer to have 01:52:18.214 --> 01:52:24.002 - multiple cars. It might be that it's transit-oriented development. It might be that it is in a dense, 01:52:24.002 --> 01:52:29.848 - walkable area in downtown or near the university. There are lots of reasons, and we have good examples 01:52:29.848 --> 01:52:34.558 - of this historically that used to have to jump through a lot of hoops to be built. 01:52:34.722 --> 01:52:40.386 - The, in particular, one I've referenced before are the apartment buildings on the southwest corner of 01:52:40.386 --> 01:52:46.216 - 4th and Madison, right by the IFL building there. They used to be called the bicycle apartments. I don't 01:52:46.216 --> 01:52:51.880 - know if they're still called that. You know, there's some of the more affordable apartment options in 01:52:51.880 --> 01:52:57.488 - the downtown. There's more housing there, and it was lower cost to build because they didn't have to 01:52:57.488 --> 01:53:03.374 - build parking on site. So again, lots of folks choose to drive and want one or two or more parking spaces 01:53:03.374 --> 01:53:04.318 - where they live. 01:53:04.482 --> 01:53:09.820 - That's not everybody. There's a significant portion of our community that doesn't drive at all, chooses 01:53:09.820 --> 01:53:15.158 - not to, can't, et cetera. So it stops forcing us to build parking when it's not always warranted, while 01:53:15.158 --> 01:53:20.496 - still allowing us to build as much parking as currently allowed with new developments. And just to note 01:53:20.496 --> 01:53:25.629 - that this has been taken up by now hundreds of cities around the country. It's very well documented 01:53:25.629 --> 01:53:31.070 - that this has been a major driver of increased housing costs and a barrier to housing development at all. 01:53:31.362 --> 01:53:37.829 - And our peers up in South Bend have already done this. Lots of peer cities in college towns across the 01:53:37.829 --> 01:53:44.421 - country. And so yeah, on to section six and seven. Section six we just amended. This gets to the process 01:53:44.421 --> 01:53:51.013 - that follows from here. So just a reminder that this resolution is not itself enacting any new policies. 01:53:51.013 --> 01:53:54.654 - It is directing Plan Commission to consider new policies. 01:53:54.914 --> 01:54:00.041 - make recommendations and bring it back to the council in the form of an ordinance that we would then 01:54:00.041 --> 01:54:05.320 - later consider. So we will have opportunity at later point to discuss the details of what this actually 01:54:05.320 --> 01:54:10.599 - looks like as formal proposed policy. Right now it's saying we would like the plan commission, we would 01:54:10.599 --> 01:54:15.776 - like staff to move on these things that are aligned with our goals, sometimes called for in our plans 01:54:15.776 --> 01:54:21.004 - that we have not yet at staff's initiative brought forward. So that's the process we've done at a fair 01:54:21.004 --> 01:54:21.918 - amount this term. 01:54:22.018 --> 01:54:31.609 - with UDO or at least a few times. Let's see, Section 7 is just about severability. So if any provisions 01:54:31.609 --> 01:54:40.831 - deemed not valid, the other ones still are upheld. And I would say there are public engagement. The 01:54:40.831 --> 01:54:43.966 - Plan Commission process itself is 01:54:44.386 --> 01:54:49.973 - built for that. We also had lots of engagement on these topics with the Planning Department through 01:54:49.973 --> 01:54:55.728 - deliberation sessions last year. A lot of these topics were discussed. The Planning Department is also 01:54:55.728 --> 01:55:01.371 - working on developing substantive changes. I think these are somewhat aligned, but probably distinct 01:55:01.371 --> 01:55:07.070 - in some areas. Just with some preliminary conversations with staff, I don't think all of these things 01:55:07.070 --> 01:55:10.590 - would be coming necessarily from staff and the administration. 01:55:10.754 --> 01:55:16.428 - So I think it's just a shared responsibility. We can both propose and bring things to the UDO. I think 01:55:16.428 --> 01:55:21.992 - it aligns well with their timelines and is worth moving on. The thing that was the impetus for me in 01:55:21.992 --> 01:55:27.832 - bringing it back actually was the Hopewell South PUD where we allowed for two and a half blocks virtually 01:55:27.832 --> 01:55:33.451 - everything in this resolution. And the fact that we don't allow any of these things currently was the 01:55:33.451 --> 01:55:39.456 - driving factor for why the administration chose to bring a PUD in the first place rather than just following 01:55:39.456 --> 01:55:40.062 - city code. 01:55:40.226 --> 01:55:46.970 - And so I'm hopeful that we can use some of these tools that the administration agreed at that time were 01:55:46.970 --> 01:55:53.650 - you know, well well proven affordability solutions to and housing availability solutions to Apply them 01:55:53.650 --> 01:56:00.329 - more broadly citywide. But again, those votes will come later. This is just directly the process happy 01:56:00.329 --> 01:56:06.814 - to answer any questions. Thank you Any questions council members All right seeing none any comments 01:56:08.162 --> 01:56:15.231 - Okay councilmemor and then it will go to public comment. Yeah briefly first of all, thank you councilman 01:56:15.231 --> 01:56:21.962 - for flirty for your patience because I know this has come before the council many times I Find this 01:56:21.962 --> 01:56:28.829 - in general alignment with a comprehensive plan. I do find that there are devils in the detail I don't 01:56:28.829 --> 01:56:36.638 - want to go explicitly into them just to say that regarding minimum lot sizes, I think that there's there's a lot of 01:56:37.346 --> 01:56:46.673 - work that could be done in order to To create more housing in traditional neighborhood forms. I'm supportive 01:56:46.673 --> 01:56:55.229 - of the electrification Commitment the minimum parking requirements. I have trouble with the times I 01:56:55.229 --> 01:57:03.786 - think it depends upon the the placement of it because I see that Having only minimal parking sizes. 01:57:03.786 --> 01:57:07.294 - Obviously the developer might choose the 01:57:07.522 --> 01:57:14.867 - Build as much as possible which increases more housing, but then it imposes parking parking elsewhere 01:57:14.867 --> 01:57:22.068 - So but since this is a resolution, I think it's very Good idea to have planning staff explore these 01:57:22.068 --> 01:57:28.981 - topics bring back Relevant ordinances and then I'll reserve judgment on those when they appear. 01:57:28.981 --> 01:57:32.222 - Thank you. I'll support it Thank you so much 01:57:33.506 --> 01:57:43.613 - Otherwise, if seeing none, we'll go to public comment. Would anybody like to comment on resolution 2026.05 01:57:43.613 --> 01:57:53.247 - as amended? See a couple of people, thank you so much. And online, you'll get your chance shortly, so 01:57:53.247 --> 01:57:57.214 - have your clicker fingers ready. Exactly. 01:57:59.458 --> 01:58:07.271 - For those who commented earlier if you didn't if you did not sign in just a reminder please go and sign 01:58:07.271 --> 01:58:14.933 - in so we can surveil jokes. My name is Kathy Barry and with respect to council member Flaherty's care 01:58:14.933 --> 01:58:22.521 - about sustainability and affordable housing. I am here to disagree with this resolution a resolution 01:58:22.521 --> 01:58:23.422 - to initiate 01:58:23.618 --> 01:58:29.355 - a proposal to amend Title 20 in order to improve sustainability and housing affordability. 01:58:29.355 --> 01:58:35.723 - In a few words, please don't initiate this. Most of the changes are already available for people and 01:58:35.723 --> 01:58:42.406 - are being tried. I think we need to wait and see if they have the intended effect. For example, paragraph 01:58:42.406 --> 01:58:48.837 - four of the preamble says minimum lot widths and areas required by the UDO do not align well with the 01:58:48.837 --> 01:58:53.502 - historic and existing form of the relevant zoning districts, but they do. 01:58:53.634 --> 01:59:00.477 - They are the history of older zoning and even no zoning. Original owners may have bought two lots or 01:59:00.477 --> 01:59:07.659 - two neighbors split a lot between their houses. This gives a neighborhood character and creates different 01:59:07.659 --> 01:59:14.977 - prices for the houses. The paragraph goes on to say minimum lot widths unduly restrict housing availability 01:59:14.977 --> 01:59:21.888 - and affordability. But I think increasing the number of compact form houses only attracts more buyers 01:59:21.888 --> 01:59:23.582 - who want that lifestyle. 01:59:23.778 --> 01:59:29.897 - and that will increase the cost. I appreciate that focus groups have established that Bloomington is 01:59:29.897 --> 01:59:36.138 - not affordable for many people. But I, as one who worked for 35 years in clerical and customer service 01:59:36.138 --> 01:59:42.257 - jobs, have also noticed what people focus on. Secretaries, nurses, delivery drivers, bank staff, and 01:59:42.257 --> 01:59:48.316 - hospitality workers do seem to feel and will say Bloomington is too expensive. But I wonder if they 01:59:48.316 --> 01:59:50.558 - mean too expensive for what you get. 01:59:51.138 --> 01:59:56.872 - I believe that people who work on their feet face to face with people for 10 or 12 hours a day don't 01:59:56.872 --> 02:00:02.607 - want to get off work, pack up the family, and walk to the park or the farmers market. Their children 02:00:02.607 --> 02:00:08.285 - who may have been in excellent schools or low-cost child care have not seen their parents for 10 or 02:00:08.285 --> 02:00:13.054 - 12 hours. Maybe they are tired of playgrounds even if the equipment is really cool. 02:00:13.634 --> 02:00:19.810 - The people I meet in all these walks of life often commute from Lawrence, Morgan, Owen, Green, and even 02:00:19.810 --> 02:00:25.807 - Orange counties, perhaps because for the same cost of a brand new zero lot line home in Bloomington, 02:00:25.807 --> 02:00:30.558 - they can get their own backyard and a sense of privacy and family togetherness. 02:00:30.978 --> 02:00:37.241 - I know that as a city we are committed to sustainable actions and have deadlines looming under the climate 02:00:37.241 --> 02:00:43.563 - action plan. But again, all the changes sought in this proposal as legislation are actions that individuals 02:00:43.563 --> 02:00:44.382 - can take now. 02:00:44.482 --> 02:00:52.239 - Please let's set this proposal aside and watch what happens with Hope Well Bloomington co-housing the 02:00:52.239 --> 02:00:59.919 - land trusts and other housing and facility use trends and let's all continue to encourage each other 02:00:59.919 --> 02:01:07.752 - to use resources wisely as our life circumstances and convictions guide us. Thank you. Thank you. Next 02:01:07.752 --> 02:01:11.326 - comment in chambers. Hello I'm Greg Alexander. 02:01:11.458 --> 02:01:16.809 - It's a good proposal, good start. My worries are all processed. I'm worried that staff will drag their 02:01:16.809 --> 02:01:22.161 - feet and neither plan commission or you guys will be able to press the issue. I'm worried the room for 02:01:22.161 --> 02:01:27.772 - interpretation might wind up gutting it. I'm worried the zoning map itself will continue to be a collection 02:01:27.772 --> 02:01:33.331 - of special interests written down on a map rather than a rational approach to building a city. I'm worried 02:01:33.331 --> 02:01:38.786 - that if it ever does come back to you after plan commission that you guys will chicken out that it won't 02:01:38.786 --> 02:01:39.358 - pass here. 02:01:39.490 --> 02:01:45.918 - Mostly, though, I'm worried about a parallel staff-led process that might make essentially the same 02:01:45.918 --> 02:01:52.538 - changes. When Hopewell South first came before you guys, I said that the one-off PUD was being brought 02:01:52.538 --> 02:01:59.609 - instead of comprehensive reform, and Director Hittle confronted my claim head-on. He said that his department 02:01:59.609 --> 02:02:06.229 - was urgently pursuing reform, and he laid out a timeline that could result in major UDO updates before 02:02:06.229 --> 02:02:08.286 - this body as soon as September. 02:02:08.418 --> 02:02:13.576 - He probably believed it was true when he said it but I knew it wasn't true and I hope you guys weren't 02:02:13.576 --> 02:02:18.583 - fooled either it's not true the administration is pursuing hopeful instead of Comprehensive reform. 02:02:18.583 --> 02:02:23.591 - So my biggest hope for this resolution is that it might provide a little kick in the pants for that 02:02:23.591 --> 02:02:28.699 - process You guys need to face the reality that in actual fact You will have to play hardball with the 02:02:28.699 --> 02:02:33.856 - mayor if you want to solve any of our city's problems The mayor wants to avoid an ugly political scene 02:02:33.856 --> 02:02:37.662 - more than she wants to make Bloomington prosperous for all of its residents 02:02:39.010 --> 02:02:45.627 - After my kids move out in six years, I want to build a small house, a shotgun shack in the side yard 02:02:45.627 --> 02:02:52.178 - of my 10th acre property. It's just half a mile north of here. I want to recoup some of my costs by 02:02:52.178 --> 02:02:58.795 - renting it out. And then when I retire, I want to sell it so that I can keep my house that I live in 02:02:58.795 --> 02:03:05.412 - now that I love. I want to provide a retirement for myself. I want to provide additional housing for 02:03:05.412 --> 02:03:06.526 - my neighborhood. 02:03:06.882 --> 02:03:13.560 - for the businesses that I go to, and I want to keep my house. My goals are reasonable. It will take 02:03:13.560 --> 02:03:20.639 - an active council, though, to make it happen. You can make it happen if the minimum lot size and setbacks 02:03:20.639 --> 02:03:25.982 - are small enough. For comparison, Hopewell South reduced those numbers to zero. 02:03:26.210 --> 02:03:32.434 - Zero minimum lot size zero setback. That's a reasonable goal for a city. We are a city It's not a reasonable 02:03:32.434 --> 02:03:38.373 - goal out in the county. It would be a disaster in Ellisville But this is a good first step. I just hope 02:03:38.373 --> 02:03:44.254 - it doesn't turn into nothing. Thank you Thank you so much. Are there any other commenters in the room? 02:03:55.106 --> 02:04:03.378 - He's preparing if there's anybody online you'd be ready. You're next. So I now understand that this 02:04:03.378 --> 02:04:11.898 - is just a proposal to examine all this stuff and most of it makes good sense. You know the I just want 02:04:11.898 --> 02:04:20.336 - I just live in a neighborhood a core neighborhood where one or two extra cars is a crisis. People are 02:04:20.336 --> 02:04:21.246 - parked and 02:04:22.530 --> 02:04:30.071 - It sounds really good to eliminate parking restrictions, but somebody puts a triplex nearby and there 02:04:30.071 --> 02:04:37.907 - are no parking restrictions. It wrecks the neighborhood. We're going to be parking locks away and there's 02:04:37.907 --> 02:04:45.300 - no alternative. People have to have, I have a car for my business. My wife has a car to pick up the 02:04:45.300 --> 02:04:51.806 - grandson and to do all her things. And one great idea really doesn't fit all places and 02:04:52.226 --> 02:04:59.263 - Right now you can have you can appeal the parking issues and let the bca look at that area and say, 02:04:59.263 --> 02:05:06.582 - you know Is this going to cause a negative impact on adjacent property? And eliminating that and giving 02:05:06.582 --> 02:05:13.971 - it by right Means we don't really care if it has a negative impact on adjacent property because we think 02:05:13.971 --> 02:05:19.038 - we have the best idea but if you really think about how to apply it and 02:05:19.458 --> 02:05:27.905 - Carefully and sensitively. That's the same thing with density It's a great idea in a lot of areas some 02:05:27.905 --> 02:05:36.679 - places. It doesn't really work. So Just watch out one size doesn't fit all and there are real consequences 02:05:36.679 --> 02:05:45.126 - to real people down on the ground Thank you all Thank you so much anyone online Fantastic anybody else 02:05:45.126 --> 02:05:46.110 - in chambers 02:05:46.658 --> 02:05:54.647 - All right, and we'll come back to council members and then any final comments Councilmember Stossberg 02:05:54.647 --> 02:06:02.558 - Thank you. Um, I just want to thank councilmember Flaherty for his persistence With this resolution. 02:06:02.558 --> 02:06:10.782 - I'm very happy to support it this evening. I do want to address the public comment that talked about the 02:06:11.650 --> 02:06:17.170 - Commitments that director Hittle made I did actually check in with him a few weeks ago about how that 02:06:17.170 --> 02:06:22.582 - process was going He said he was actually waiting for to figure out what was that gonna happen with 02:06:22.582 --> 02:06:28.264 - this resolution? So there I think that the Planning Department is eager for us to deal with this because 02:06:28.264 --> 02:06:33.730 - it has been on our agenda multiple times But our meetings have just gone so long that we didn't have 02:06:33.730 --> 02:06:39.304 - a chance to vote on it So I'm very pleased that we can actually consider and move on this tonight. So, 02:06:39.304 --> 02:06:40.062 - thank you and 02:06:41.602 --> 02:06:51.993 - Anyone else. Council member Rosenberger a little question a little question. How does the transportation 02:06:51.993 --> 02:07:01.988 - plan work in conjunction with this that these are you do changes and then would it make sense during 02:07:01.988 --> 02:07:07.134 - this process for council to also take on looking at 02:07:07.426 --> 02:07:13.582 - transportation plan for how it might fit or be updated because just in the vein of things that hope 02:07:13.582 --> 02:07:19.801 - well Did differently there were? Setback not set back there were right-of-way requirements that were 02:07:19.801 --> 02:07:26.142 - difficult and on-street parking and sidewalks things that so would it make sense to sort of be looking 02:07:26.142 --> 02:07:32.606 - at that while this is going on or have you thought of that or is it something that would happen later or 02:07:34.210 --> 02:07:40.988 - I would say it's invoked essentially by section 2 which mentioned subdivision standards and gets into 02:07:40.988 --> 02:07:47.833 - that. I think we identified that maybe the most significant part of the transportation plan that needs 02:07:47.833 --> 02:07:55.142 - some change and flexibility with respect to its interaction with housing development in the built environment 02:07:55.142 --> 02:08:01.854 - is the ability to adjust the required right-of-way width based on whether or not the street typology 02:08:02.050 --> 02:08:08.502 - You're using, well, just the street itself has parking or not, basically. So the rights of way in the 02:08:08.502 --> 02:08:14.954 - transportation plan are rigid, and they assume a street typology that has parking included. It's sort 02:08:14.954 --> 02:08:21.407 - of like the model for that type of street, neighborhood connector, arterial, general urban, whatever. 02:08:21.407 --> 02:08:27.859 - And some streets just don't have parking. There are older streets. They're not going to have parking. 02:08:27.859 --> 02:08:29.630 - We know that. I don't know. 02:08:31.234 --> 02:08:36.686 - Henderson would be, or I always get them confused, Hillside and Henderson, whichever one's north-south. 02:08:36.686 --> 02:08:41.771 - That's a good example, right? We're not gonna add like a parking lane to that street. Henderson, 02:08:41.771 --> 02:08:47.380 - thank you. So we need the ability to adjust the right-of-way width because when lots are being subdivided, 02:08:47.380 --> 02:08:52.989 - that's a good example. Like a lot that's in Bryant Park that could be subdivided that fronts on Henderson, 02:08:52.989 --> 02:08:58.388 - it might not be functionally possible without additional changes to address that. And so it's possible 02:08:58.388 --> 02:08:59.646 - that would like warrant 02:09:00.194 --> 02:09:05.748 - You know wouldn't be able to fully unlock the potential here until we make changes to the transportation 02:09:05.748 --> 02:09:11.090 - plan Maybe some of that can be covered in the subdivision standard section of the UDO which again is 02:09:11.090 --> 02:09:16.539 - called out here but really that's gonna be for planning experts planning step experts to Guide I think 02:09:16.539 --> 02:09:21.881 - I think we can help do that and I guess just to that to that. Well, yeah. Yeah, so I think that's my 02:09:21.881 --> 02:09:27.329 - answer Great. Thank you. I just thought about it when it was brought up at public comments about maybe 02:09:27.329 --> 02:09:29.022 - subdividing a point one acre of 02:09:29.666 --> 02:09:36.595 - locked and that right of way would make it probably pretty challenging. So that's great, thank you. 02:09:36.595 --> 02:09:43.592 - Can I say one follow-up thing to that, which is that we've generally required lots of any size, even 02:09:43.592 --> 02:09:50.521 - single lot subdivisions to come into compliance with all those things. And I do wonder if different 02:09:50.521 --> 02:09:57.588 - approaches are warranted for a full block when a full block is being changed, like it was in Hopewell 02:09:57.588 --> 02:09:58.974 - versus a single lot 02:09:59.266 --> 02:10:06.219 - on a street. We did just make an adjustment. If you recall, the staff brought changes recently up to 02:10:06.219 --> 02:10:13.585 - the UDO. We now have a sidewalk payment in lieu option on a site-specific basis like that where it doesn't 02:10:13.585 --> 02:10:20.469 - really make sense to build just a single lot of sidewalk. Maybe it's proposed still. Sorry. Time is 02:10:20.469 --> 02:10:27.422 - fluid right now. Anyway, good question. I think it will potentially have some interaction with that. 02:10:27.906 --> 02:10:33.383 - which I think, again, is already on staff priority. Excellent. If it's OK with the body, I'd like to 02:10:33.383 --> 02:10:38.967 - move to a vote, because we have lots of other things on the agenda, and this will come back to us. Can 02:10:38.967 --> 02:10:44.552 - I say one last thing? Yes, yes. Which is just thank you. Thank you to my colleagues for consideration, 02:10:44.552 --> 02:10:50.029 - and I hope I get your support. Also, just to planning staff, I don't know how common this is when we 02:10:50.029 --> 02:10:55.451 - pass these resolutions. I would like to be, I guess, I offer to be as involved as you all would let 02:10:55.451 --> 02:10:57.566 - me in the steps along the way, just to 02:10:57.730 --> 02:11:07.475 - Try to ensure we have alignment and you know, if you have questions about intent that kind of thing 02:11:07.475 --> 02:11:17.415 - I'd love to stay involved. So thank you All right. Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember 02:11:17.415 --> 02:11:27.550 - P. Monsmith Yes, so like yes. I'm sorry. Yes Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes rough Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes 02:11:27.874 --> 02:11:37.106 - Yes, that carries nine. Oh, thank you very much everybody And thank you councilmember Flaherty for both 02:11:37.106 --> 02:11:46.160 - your patience and hard work on this. All right moving on other I move that resolution 20 2606 be read 02:11:46.160 --> 02:11:56.190 - by title and synopsis only Second there's a motion in a second. All those in favor say aye aye all those opposed 02:11:56.322 --> 02:12:04.516 - All right, that motion carries nine. Oh, will the clerk please read? Resolution 20 2606 a resolution 02:12:04.516 --> 02:12:13.197 - directing the Housing and Neighborhood Development Department to develop a framework for long-term housing 02:12:13.197 --> 02:12:21.472 - affordability Synopsis the resolution sponsored by councilmember member Zulik directs the Housing and 02:12:21.472 --> 02:12:24.798 - Neighborhood Development Department hand 02:12:24.994 --> 02:12:31.829 - to develop a legally permissible framework for ensuring the long-term affordability of housing units 02:12:31.829 --> 02:12:39.137 - supported by the city, including the use of tools such as silent second mortgages, rights of first refusal, 02:12:39.137 --> 02:12:46.107 - and other shared equity mechanisms, and to provide recommendations for any necessary amendments to the 02:12:46.107 --> 02:12:52.062 - unified development ordinance and related provisions of the Bloomington Municipal Code. 02:12:56.674 --> 02:13:04.444 - I move that resolution 20 20 606 be adopted Second, all right council members of it. Yes. Thank you. 02:13:04.444 --> 02:13:12.752 - Just real quick I know we have lots to do today. So I will very quickly go through the sections essentially 02:13:12.752 --> 02:13:20.598 - this is intended to be a continuation of our intent to produce affordable housing across the city and 02:13:20.598 --> 02:13:21.598 - indicate our 02:13:21.858 --> 02:13:28.320 - intent to do this much past Hopewell this was initially intended to be voted on right after Hopewell 02:13:28.320 --> 02:13:35.294 - so that we were all still thinking about it. But as you know that was a long council meeting. So essentially 02:13:35.294 --> 02:13:36.318 - this resolution 02:13:37.410 --> 02:13:44.114 - directs the housing and neighborhood development department to develop a framework for affordability 02:13:44.114 --> 02:13:50.950 - measures across our city evaluation of tools development of clear standards a review of best practices 02:13:50.950 --> 02:13:55.198 - and then a presentation of findings to counsel within 120 days. 02:13:55.490 --> 02:14:02.685 - If you're if anyone has a question of why 120 days I will remind us all that we have a six week break. 02:14:02.685 --> 02:14:09.670 - Well yes I did plan on doing it six months ago but there will be a six week break at this point. So 02:14:09.670 --> 02:14:16.794 - now we will need that extra time to accommodate for council recess. The last section is next steps at 02:14:16.794 --> 02:14:24.478 - which point after presentation from the hand department council can then consider any additional legislation. 02:14:24.930 --> 02:14:33.604 - So that is my presentation. Happy to answer any questions Fantastic. Is there anybody from the hand 02:14:33.604 --> 02:14:42.452 - department or from city? Offices that would like to comment on this Okay, I'm seeing none and council 02:14:42.452 --> 02:14:52.254 - members questions All right council member comments, all right, we'll go to public comment on resolution 20 2606 02:14:52.578 --> 02:15:01.096 - Is there anybody in the public who would like to comment on resolution 20, 20, 606? Good evening again, 02:15:01.096 --> 02:15:09.615 - Council. It's Christopher from the Bloomington Chamber of Commerce. I appreciate Council Member Zulek's 02:15:09.615 --> 02:15:18.051 - work on this and it is a very important issue. We've been talking about affordability for quite a long 02:15:18.051 --> 02:15:19.198 - time and, um, 02:15:19.938 --> 02:15:26.225 - I think we all have the same affordability and attainment for homeownership goal. The concern moving 02:15:26.225 --> 02:15:32.637 - forward is the same kind of debate we had on the Hope Well, which is just ensuring that these policies 02:15:32.637 --> 02:15:38.800 - are workable in practice. Affordability requirements need to be balanced with financing realities, 02:15:38.800 --> 02:15:41.726 - construction costs, and long-term feasibility. 02:15:41.826 --> 02:15:47.284 - The affordability standards and too rigid administratively complex in projects may deliver fewer units 02:15:47.284 --> 02:15:52.635 - or fail altogether, which we've seen. So I just want to keep that in mind as we sort of move forward 02:15:52.635 --> 02:15:58.146 - with affordability issues. I thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Is there anyone online who'd 02:15:58.146 --> 02:16:02.014 - like to win the prize of being the first online commenter for the night? 02:16:02.402 --> 02:16:08.869 - No, they the prize might be great. Okay Anyone in there all in the room? I keep on I say the office 02:16:08.869 --> 02:16:15.530 - none. Okay fantastic back to council members any comments councilmember Stasberg Thank you. Um, I just 02:16:15.530 --> 02:16:22.191 - want to say there's a few parts of this resolution that I'm not very comfortable with and I didn't ask 02:16:22.191 --> 02:16:28.659 - questions about them because I figured it was more of a comment than a question so I didn't want to 02:16:28.659 --> 02:16:29.758 - do that then and 02:16:30.018 --> 02:16:38.334 - In terms of making amendments to Title 20, which is the UDO, I'm really uncomfortable with a resolution 02:16:38.402 --> 02:16:44.728 - Basically gives the hand department that capability when really it's the planning department and the 02:16:44.728 --> 02:16:51.306 - planning commission that should have that capability to do that and that really like any city department 02:16:51.306 --> 02:16:57.569 - can reach out to another city department and ask questions or have collaboration and and talk about 02:16:57.569 --> 02:17:05.086 - proposals like that, but I'm kind of uncomfortable from the council perspective of Saying yes to a resolution that that 02:17:05.314 --> 02:17:12.006 - titles that in this way. Secondly, I'm gonna have to go back to what I said during Hopewell numerous 02:17:12.006 --> 02:17:19.162 - times in terms of these methods of affordability that, I mean, there's, I appreciate that it's a resolution 02:17:19.162 --> 02:17:25.788 - saying, hey, investigate these things, but you know what, I think that the Hand Department has been 02:17:25.788 --> 02:17:32.547 - investigating these things for an incredibly long time and never, still never gave us any really good 02:17:32.547 --> 02:17:33.342 - information 02:17:33.474 --> 02:17:41.580 - data, et cetera, about their efficacy. And I voted no, ultimately, on the affordability amendment related 02:17:41.580 --> 02:17:49.228 - to Hopewell because of that. And I considered voting no on the whole thing because of that, because 02:17:49.228 --> 02:17:56.875 - I just am really skeptical that we'll get any better information from hand that we've gotten in the 02:17:56.875 --> 02:18:03.070 - last six months around this. So I find this whole resolution really frustrating. 02:18:03.330 --> 02:18:11.029 - That's Yeah, I just find find the whole thing very frustrating it goes along with my frustration with 02:18:11.029 --> 02:18:18.727 - the hand department and This yeah, so I just can't support this I think that hand is probably already 02:18:18.727 --> 02:18:26.803 - doing this anyway, especially since hope all was passed with the affordability resolution or affordability 02:18:26.803 --> 02:18:32.766 - amendments that basically allowed them to use whatever tools they wanted to so 02:18:33.186 --> 02:18:40.014 - And yeah, so I guess that's my comment and I'll be voting no on this this evening. Thank you Thank you 02:18:40.014 --> 02:18:46.974 - so much. I'm other I see councilmember. Okay councilmember Zulek councilmember Flaherty comes over daily 02:18:46.974 --> 02:18:53.669 - I just I would have appreciated that feedback anytime in the past six weeks where that's been on the 02:18:53.669 --> 02:18:54.398 - agenda and 02:18:57.954 --> 02:19:03.588 - Thank you, thank you Council Members Zulik for bringing this. I still think a framework, I share some 02:19:03.588 --> 02:19:09.112 - of the reservations, but I think a framework will be helpful. My broad concern here is that I think 02:19:09.112 --> 02:19:14.802 - some of the mechanisms that the hand department or director has sort of favored at times are ones that 02:19:14.802 --> 02:19:20.546 - may require kind of like periodic ongoing public subsidy in order to sustain as permanent affordability 02:19:20.546 --> 02:19:26.401 - and like definitionally like maybe that's not permanent affordability anymore if you have to keep putting 02:19:26.401 --> 02:19:27.230 - money into it. 02:19:27.490 --> 02:19:32.861 - I think the opportunity to like, you know, we passed the UDO, or it's not the UDO, the PUD, the Hopewell 02:19:32.861 --> 02:19:38.130 - South PUD, with some uncertainty sort of there, but a requirement for permanent affordability, I think 02:19:38.130 --> 02:19:43.246 - we may confront that reality at some point, but I think the opportunity to revisit this in the form 02:19:43.246 --> 02:19:48.822 - of a framework will be a good chance to like look further, look more holistically and look further downfield 02:19:48.822 --> 02:19:54.142 - and think about the trade-offs involved with various options here. So thank you again, I'll support it. 02:19:56.930 --> 02:20:03.924 - Yeah, I'm really excited to support this too. I I think I just want to say thanks councilman Brazil 02:20:03.924 --> 02:20:11.058 - look for all the work that you put into this because I think this is a really important good step and 02:20:11.058 --> 02:20:18.121 - I think we definitely need this and I think it'll do good things. So it's a it's a great initiative. 02:20:18.121 --> 02:20:24.626 - Thank you. Happy to support it Any other comments Seeing that will the clerk please call the 02:20:24.626 --> 02:20:26.654 - roll Councilmember Zulek Yes 02:20:27.042 --> 02:20:41.196 - Sorry. Yes, Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes rough. No Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes Stasberg no Piedmont Smith. 02:20:41.196 --> 02:20:55.213 - Yes That motion carries seven to thank you so very much councilman Zulek All right. Any other motions 02:20:55.213 --> 02:20:56.862 - I Move that 02:20:57.218 --> 02:21:05.201 - Getting there ordinance twenty twenty six. Oh seven be read by title and synopsis only Second Yes, 02:21:05.201 --> 02:21:13.668 - all right, there's a motion at a second any discussion all those in favor say aye Any opposed same sign? 02:21:13.668 --> 02:21:21.732 - All right that motion carries nine. Oh, will the clerk please read? Ordinance twenty twenty six. Oh 02:21:21.732 --> 02:21:26.974 - seven to amend title eight of the Bloomington Municipal Code and 02:21:27.298 --> 02:21:34.742 - Entitled historic preservation and protection to establish a conservation district regarding cottage 02:21:34.742 --> 02:21:42.628 - Grove Conservation District Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission petitioner synopsis his ordinance 02:21:42.628 --> 02:21:50.588 - amends chapter 8.20 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled list of designated historic and conservation 02:21:50.588 --> 02:21:56.190 - districts in order to designate the cottage Grove Conservation District and 02:21:56.610 --> 02:22:03.088 - neighborhood of a hundred and twenty two properties in the city of Bloomington Monroe County, Indiana 02:22:03.088 --> 02:22:09.820 - as a conservation district the majority of structures in the proposed district date from the years before 02:22:09.820 --> 02:22:16.171 - and after World War one and are built in the folk Victorian and Queen Anne styles representative of 02:22:16.171 --> 02:22:21.950 - this period in Bloomington's history houses from the late 1910s and 1920s are mostly craft 02:22:22.178 --> 02:22:29.010 - Craftsman style with a conspicuous number of limestone Tudor revival houses Many of the pre-war houses 02:22:29.010 --> 02:22:35.775 - were built by employees of the showers brothers furniture company and bear the hallmarks of carpenter 02:22:35.775 --> 02:22:42.540 - built folk housing While many of the larger post-war houses are associated with Bloomington's booming 02:22:42.540 --> 02:22:49.438 - limestone industry the neighborhood demonstrates a high degree of integrity and many notable houses and 02:22:51.618 --> 02:22:58.543 - Thank you very much. I move that ordinance 20 2607 be adopted second. All right Mr. Sandweiss, I think 02:22:58.543 --> 02:23:05.535 - I saw you come in Are you still there you already do the presentation? But is there anything you wanted 02:23:05.535 --> 02:23:12.461 - to add based on questions that came up last time or any additional comments? I had received a question 02:23:12.461 --> 02:23:19.184 - about the potential council process for any map amendments This has been done in the past I believe 02:23:19.184 --> 02:23:21.470 - for the Johnson Creamery property 02:23:21.986 --> 02:23:31.880 - In 2022 where there was a council proposed amendment to the map I haven't received any follow-up on 02:23:31.880 --> 02:23:42.169 - any specific proposals Other than that we have received a couple of more Comments that are now included 02:23:42.169 --> 02:23:47.710 - in your packet since This ordinance was last considered 02:23:50.018 --> 02:23:57.584 - I'm also available for any additional questions if I receive any more Excellent. Thank you so much. 02:23:57.584 --> 02:24:05.605 - Are there any further questions? Councilmember Stasberg Thank you. I do have questions for mr. Sandweiss. 02:24:05.605 --> 02:24:11.582 - So don't don't sit down. Thank you. I Just I just want clarification about the 02:24:12.418 --> 02:24:18.534 - I'm going to assume at this point that it's going to roll over into a historic district in three years 02:24:18.534 --> 02:24:24.590 - because most conservation districts do and the state standard for keeping them conservation districts 02:24:24.590 --> 02:24:30.825 - is extremely high. So I'm going with that assumption with these questions. So at that time when assuming 02:24:30.825 --> 02:24:37.178 - it would roll over into a historic district then somebody within the district would need to write district 02:24:37.178 --> 02:24:38.366 - guidelines correct. 02:24:38.786 --> 02:24:46.288 - That's right. How is that process usually done in terms of how many meetings is that done at? How many 02:24:46.288 --> 02:24:53.790 - people tend to attend those meetings? Is there some kind of vote of approval at the meeting? Are there 02:24:53.790 --> 02:25:01.438 - other kinds of votes of approval? How is that usually done? So this process is usually handled by groups 02:25:01.438 --> 02:25:06.974 - from the neighborhood, oftentimes a neighborhood association if one exists. 02:25:07.426 --> 02:25:15.882 - They will often request that members of the Commission or staff attend these meetings. They have to 02:25:15.882 --> 02:25:24.676 - be public meetings So that we can make sure that you know, what is being proposed is allowable by local 02:25:24.676 --> 02:25:33.386 - code Generally and we don't control the process when this is being proposed from the neighborhood they 02:25:33.386 --> 02:25:35.838 - will vote on resolutions for 02:25:36.962 --> 02:25:44.335 - guidelines for you know different areas of design that are considered and once that has been reviewed 02:25:44.335 --> 02:25:52.069 - by Members of the Commission who've been invited to comment for I guess Being able to hold water according 02:25:52.069 --> 02:25:59.297 - to state and local statutes It's presented to the Historic Preservation Commission for a vote which 02:25:59.297 --> 02:26:06.814 - then ratifies what's presented from the neighborhood Okay, so in terms of the votes by the neighborhood 02:26:07.234 --> 02:26:15.026 - Those resolutions that you said so is that usually like in person at the? For lack of a better term 02:26:15.026 --> 02:26:22.896 - neighborhood association meetings whenever I've attended it has been in person. Okay, so I This this 02:26:22.896 --> 02:26:30.142 - might sound like a comment but it probably is one of one of my concerns has to do with those 02:26:30.562 --> 02:26:37.902 - with those standards and the number of people who participate in that process and approve that process. 02:26:37.902 --> 02:26:45.312 - So been talking to attorney Allen around that process and amendments that we could make to that process. 02:26:45.312 --> 02:26:49.758 - And currently our code doesn't say much about that process but 02:26:49.922 --> 02:26:59.103 - But he he did tell me at least initially he thinks that that code could be modified to define that process 02:26:59.103 --> 02:27:08.542 - more including ensuring that for example the majority of owners within the district approve those guidelines. 02:27:08.834 --> 02:27:17.440 - Would you agree that we could potentially amend city code to put in guidelines around those resolutions 02:27:17.440 --> 02:27:25.881 - and how many property owners within the historic districts would need to approve those rules. I would 02:27:25.881 --> 02:27:34.488 - want to see what other precedent there is in the state if there's any other certified local governments 02:27:34.488 --> 02:27:38.046 - that I guess involve the city in that way. 02:27:38.146 --> 02:27:44.257 - I know that, you know, different cities handle the creation of guidelines in slightly different ways. 02:27:44.257 --> 02:27:50.247 - I would also want to make sure that a system of guidelines is created, because if they're not, then 02:27:50.247 --> 02:27:56.118 - it's going to be up to the commission to interpret, and we really want to make sure that there's, 02:27:56.118 --> 02:28:02.229 - you know, something that's presented to us by people who live in or own property in the neighborhood. 02:28:02.229 --> 02:28:06.782 - And it can be difficult to get, you know, a substantial number of people to 02:28:07.234 --> 02:28:14.994 - You know show up to meetings or comment to you know respond to emails or letters that are sent initiating 02:28:14.994 --> 02:28:22.608 - this process So, you know, I wouldn't rule it out, but I would want to make sure that there's some sort 02:28:22.608 --> 02:28:30.003 - of precedent and that it would be workable Okay, great. Thank you Any other questions customer rough 02:28:30.003 --> 02:28:36.958 - That's your 10 ways so I've visited the area like four times on foot and bicycle over the last 02:28:37.282 --> 02:28:48.939 - or two and as I Went around the area I noticed like going down 12th Street East from Grant, which is 02:28:48.939 --> 02:29:00.711 - the current proposed boundary I saw Homes that were I Didn't see any difference between some of those 02:29:00.711 --> 02:29:06.366 - homes that are east of between Grant and Indiana 02:29:07.298 --> 02:29:15.302 - On 12th Street that were seems any less significant or any less diverse. Why would they not have been 02:29:15.302 --> 02:29:23.307 - a part of the proposal? Do you know um So there were several different maps that were proposed by the 02:29:23.307 --> 02:29:31.154 - petitioners for this district And When boundaries for a historic district are drawn, you know, they 02:29:31.154 --> 02:29:33.822 - should include an area that has a 02:29:34.498 --> 02:29:42.736 - sort of a consistent historical and architectural context. I think my understanding is that, and I would 02:29:42.736 --> 02:29:50.582 - agree, that the buildings for the most part in this area fit this context. It could be drawn larger 02:29:50.582 --> 02:29:58.663 - or it could be drawn smaller to include or exclude buildings that may or may not contribute to it, but 02:29:58.663 --> 02:30:03.998 - there has to be a boundary drawn and there is often a preference to 02:30:05.186 --> 02:30:11.600 - you know, making discrete boundaries based on sort of clear geographic divisions like Grant Street, 02:30:11.600 --> 02:30:18.013 - for instance. For example, there are a number of contributing buildings east of there, but a lot of 02:30:18.013 --> 02:30:24.619 - that area of sort of the eastern part of the Cottage Grove neighborhood has already been substantially 02:30:24.619 --> 02:30:31.417 - redeveloped. So it's really west of Grant Street that you have a big sort of consistent historic context. 02:30:31.417 --> 02:30:33.662 - So you don't think that along 12th 02:30:34.498 --> 02:30:44.772 - There are some definitely homes that could have been included and that would have fit really consistently 02:30:44.772 --> 02:30:54.562 - well. Okay, and then further along 12th, I noticed there are what obviously were homes probably from 02:30:54.562 --> 02:31:04.158 - the era. Now they're just grass lots, they're just empty lots. Pretty big area with a lot of that. 02:31:04.386 --> 02:31:11.538 - Can you tell me what that's about? Do you have any idea? Um, I'm not sure when the Commission gets a 02:31:11.538 --> 02:31:18.618 - demolition delay for a property that's not located in a historic district the basically the options 02:31:18.618 --> 02:31:25.770 - that are presented are either to Nominate the property for designation to City Council or to release 02:31:25.770 --> 02:31:32.638 - demolition delay I'm trying to think I got the statistics for somebody who asked recently, but I 02:31:34.146 --> 02:31:41.693 - I think within the past three years there's been One building that has been designated through the demolition 02:31:41.693 --> 02:31:48.691 - delay process so usually that's going to mean release which means that the property owner can then do 02:31:48.691 --> 02:31:55.688 - you know according to County and UDO guidelines whatever they want with that property So I don't know 02:31:55.688 --> 02:32:02.206 - what the plans are for those properties that are now grass lots So well, I mean the grass they 02:32:02.498 --> 02:32:10.992 - Obviously, it's not very recent that they've been bare for a while obviously from the looks of them 02:32:10.992 --> 02:32:19.486 - at least Then if I can ask one last follow-up related question follow-up Some members of the public 02:32:19.486 --> 02:32:28.150 - spoke at the last meeting where this was discussed and Indicated that there had not been Outreach and 02:32:28.150 --> 02:32:31.038 - communication or negotiation with 02:32:31.266 --> 02:32:42.147 - involvement with The property owners in that area And I'm wondering if you can at all speak to The validity 02:32:42.147 --> 02:32:52.323 - of that assertion that there were there was not engagement or involvement with some of the folks who 02:32:52.323 --> 02:32:59.678 - are property owners in the area that that maybe aren't supportive of the 02:32:59.874 --> 02:33:10.474 - Okay, so from my position at the city when I was required to I sent Three letters to all the property 02:33:10.474 --> 02:33:21.075 - owners in the district plus an additional letter As a courtesy to the Petitioners or I believe Anyway 02:33:21.075 --> 02:33:27.934 - four letters were sent three of them from the hand department and 02:33:28.642 --> 02:33:35.968 - To let them know about steps in this process including when the properties came to the HPC 02:33:35.968 --> 02:33:44.181 - for The Commission's vote on the proposed district when interim protection was placed and when a date 02:33:44.181 --> 02:33:52.876 - was scheduled for a hearing with City Council There were also I believe three meetings that the petitioners 02:33:52.876 --> 02:33:55.774 - put on that were publicly noticed I 02:33:59.170 --> 02:34:06.275 - From the last mailing that I sent out I received one letter that bounced back. So other than that the 02:34:06.275 --> 02:34:13.590 - letter should have been received by You know, whatever property owner they were addressed to Okay, yeah, 02:34:13.590 --> 02:34:20.625 - thank you very much for your replies, thank you so much other councilmember questions All right, I'm 02:34:20.625 --> 02:34:28.009 - gonna move to public comment at this time Same thing. Can I just see a strove hands of you plan on public 02:34:28.009 --> 02:34:29.054 - commenting on? 02:34:30.050 --> 02:34:39.037 - Okay. Fantastic. All right. So same thing. We'll keep it at three minutes. And if you're ready online 02:34:39.037 --> 02:34:47.936 - you might win a prize. Thank you also for waiting so long. Go ahead. Okay. My name is Amy Butler. My 02:34:47.936 --> 02:34:57.275 - husband and I were involved in creating this district. And first of all I wanted to follow up real quick. 02:34:57.275 --> 02:34:59.742 - We sent out multiple emails 02:35:00.034 --> 02:35:05.310 - Neighbors to start this process We sent out a letter in the mail which cost us a lot of money to do 02:35:05.310 --> 02:35:10.638 - We only did send one letter So I admit that through the mail But we did send out a ton of emails and 02:35:10.638 --> 02:35:15.913 - we contacted and talked to anybody who contacted us back And we stayed in contact with them as they 02:35:15.913 --> 02:35:19.870 - stayed in contact with us Cottage Grove is a neighborhood worth protecting 02:35:20.034 --> 02:35:25.568 - This neighborhood is a small collection of 100 year old or older homes that represent diverse architectural 02:35:25.568 --> 02:35:30.692 - styles that are core to Bloomington. They are built of materials and use techniques from their era. 02:35:30.692 --> 02:35:35.816 - They cannot be duplicated. Once they are lost we are not getting them back. All the bits and pieces 02:35:35.816 --> 02:35:41.094 - are present that make for a nice place to live. We have small green spaces around our houses including 02:35:41.094 --> 02:35:46.423 - big mature trees and the subsequent shade they provide even cooling the houses next door and the houses 02:35:46.423 --> 02:35:47.294 - down the street. 02:35:47.426 --> 02:35:52.225 - Our streets all have sidewalks, some of which are made of 100 year old bricks. And then there's the 02:35:52.225 --> 02:35:57.120 - WPA era limestone sidewalks created by people needing work in a difficult time for our country. These 02:35:57.120 --> 02:36:02.015 - sidewalks, our hand built limestone walls and the big old trees make for an especially pleasant place 02:36:02.015 --> 02:36:04.510 - to walk in the summer when we are heading downtown. 02:36:05.218 --> 02:36:10.034 - Most of our houses also have big porches, providing exterior spaces our residents can enjoy much of 02:36:10.034 --> 02:36:15.042 - the year. Some of the porches wrap around the house and the house will have a second entrance, offering 02:36:15.042 --> 02:36:20.051 - an additional place for the inhabitants to enter their home. This is a great example of how houses were 02:36:20.051 --> 02:36:25.252 - able to work well for the resident owner and the renters at the same time. Our neighborhood has a wonderful 02:36:25.252 --> 02:36:30.116 - versatility to it. These old houses have multiple uses over the years. Some have been residences for 02:36:30.116 --> 02:36:33.150 - many years and others have been rentals since they were built. 02:36:33.410 --> 02:36:38.528 - Some rental houses have even turned back to owner occupied residences. Our host houses are adaptable 02:36:38.528 --> 02:36:43.797 - and useful, and that is why they have lasted for all these years. These are houses built by our working 02:36:43.797 --> 02:36:49.067 - class, business managers and mill owners. Indiana's own Hoagy Carmichael was born in a house that would 02:36:49.067 --> 02:36:51.550 - have been in our district, but it was torn down. 02:36:52.098 --> 02:36:56.867 - We have students, retirees, professionals, even families. Our neighborhood is a great example 02:36:56.867 --> 02:37:02.042 - of Bloomington's cultural heritage. It is facing significant development pressure and I encourage you 02:37:02.042 --> 02:37:07.318 - to vote in favor of protecting it. This neighborhood is full of naturally occurring affordable housing. 02:37:07.318 --> 02:37:11.326 - Please help us save it. Thank you for your time and considering Cottage Grove. 02:37:16.002 --> 02:37:21.967 - Hello, my name is Greg Alexander. Let me tell you about a house a couple blocks south of this district 02:37:21.967 --> 02:37:27.759 - I coveted this house the location the architecture the size Still to this day. It's my dream house. 02:37:27.759 --> 02:37:33.608 - I found out about it in the 90s when a former council member lived there and They didn't keep it up. 02:37:33.608 --> 02:37:38.878 - So it was very affordable when they sold it but of course the bank would not lend me for a 02:37:39.010 --> 02:37:44.862 - fix her up or at that point I missed my opportunity. Instead it was bought by someone who is today a 02:37:44.862 --> 02:37:51.120 - judge. And that future judge poured a ton of money into it and then she sold it to a real estate management 02:37:51.120 --> 02:37:57.089 - company that specializes in luxury historic rentals. So the building was preserved. Hooray, right? But 02:37:57.089 --> 02:38:02.883 - I am excluded and its role in the community has gone forever. My kids will not sit in that majestic 02:38:02.883 --> 02:38:08.446 - living room and smoke pot with Harmony students. That will not happen ever. That house is gone. 02:38:08.866 --> 02:38:13.717 - The moral is, I hope we're looking at results. What are you trying to accomplish here? I can tell you 02:38:13.717 --> 02:38:18.663 - one thing it will accomplish is putting future development under the thumb of the Historic Preservation 02:38:18.663 --> 02:38:23.609 - Commission. I cannot say enough bad things, unfortunately, about that commission. Every single meeting, 02:38:23.609 --> 02:38:28.364 - someone points out they aren't allowed to regulate use, and yet that's all they want to talk about. 02:38:28.364 --> 02:38:33.263 - They ignore that advice. That's all they want to talk about. It's a backdoor HOA. At best, busy bodies 02:38:33.263 --> 02:38:38.494 - are interfering with their neighbors. At worst, it's naked corruption. I'm sorry, but commission members have 02:38:38.626 --> 02:38:44.432 - line their own pockets and use that position to punish their competitors. That's happened a lot. Another 02:38:44.432 --> 02:38:49.961 - thing is it will make development just more expensive. Those costs will be passed on to tenants. It 02:38:49.961 --> 02:38:55.490 - will reduce the amount of development overall. There will be less housing so close to campus. If we 02:38:55.490 --> 02:39:01.296 - can't build housing near campus, we'll build it somewhere else. So we'll contribute to sprawl in parking 02:39:01.296 --> 02:39:06.991 - lots too. Another effect is it will kill the engine that made this beautiful neighborhood in the first 02:39:06.991 --> 02:39:08.318 - place. These houses are 02:39:08.418 --> 02:39:14.962 - the result of an era when people solved their problems by building density in cities. Today we solve 02:39:14.962 --> 02:39:21.700 - our problems with commuting. That is a big change. We can't entrench that in law and get a good result. 02:39:21.700 --> 02:39:28.243 - What we'll get is a bad result. It makes it harder for good neighborhoods to be built in the future. 02:39:28.243 --> 02:39:34.787 - There is no other opportunity to build a neighborhood so close to downtown or close to campus if you 02:39:34.787 --> 02:39:36.990 - take this off out of the options. 02:39:37.346 --> 02:39:42.463 - Historic preservation here will make this neighborhood more expensive and more exclusive and it will 02:39:42.463 --> 02:39:47.630 - also Exacerbate the problem of people living in drafty and moldy houses because their landlords won't 02:39:47.630 --> 02:39:52.898 - have the opportunity to make rational choices And just as an aside, I checked the names on the petition 02:39:52.898 --> 02:39:58.167 - The address is almost entirely rentals. The names are not the names of the owners. That's fine You know 02:39:58.167 --> 02:40:02.270 - as an activist I really I envy that skill to get students to sign a petition and 02:40:02.722 --> 02:40:13.226 - But the volume of names here reflects nothing but naive good wishes from people who were presumably 02:40:13.226 --> 02:40:24.151 - told the city wants to tear down their house. Thanks. Hi, I'm James Ford. I live in Cottage Grove. I've 02:40:24.151 --> 02:40:31.294 - lived there for 20 years. Lived a few blocks from there since 1984. 02:40:32.418 --> 02:40:39.391 - an auspicious year. So I've waited a long time to be here tonight. I have a lot of things I could say, 02:40:39.391 --> 02:40:46.365 - but I'm only gonna really say one thing about something that was mentioned two weeks ago. And that was 02:40:46.365 --> 02:40:53.474 - a discussion about the old Northeast Neighborhood Association. These are the bylaws of that organization 02:40:53.474 --> 02:41:00.379 - that was formed in March of 1998 by four people, three of which have died, and one of which has moved 02:41:00.379 --> 02:41:01.598 - on to a different 02:41:01.890 --> 02:41:10.604 - Neighborhood Association, I'll talk about that in a moment. This Neighborhood Association is huge. It 02:41:10.604 --> 02:41:19.232 - ranges from Kirkwood through to 12th, from college to Woodlawn. Quoting from the bylaws, it includes 02:41:19.232 --> 02:41:27.262 - four of Bloomington's historic neighborhoods, Cottage Grove, North Indiana, North Washington, 02:41:27.554 --> 02:41:34.662 - and university courts, so they acknowledged from the beginning that College Grove is a historic district. 02:41:34.662 --> 02:41:41.502 - The general purpose is the aim of promoting the welfare of residents and improving the general living 02:41:41.502 --> 02:41:48.544 - conditions of the area. That's what Old Northeast was originally about. One of their guiding principles, 02:41:48.544 --> 02:41:55.317 - to encourage all owners, residents, and businesses to take pride in this neighborhood, to appreciate 02:41:55.317 --> 02:41:56.926 - its beauty, uniqueness, 02:41:57.090 --> 02:42:04.592 - and historical significance and to enhance its viability. That was in 1998. In 2006, it was a breakaway 02:42:04.592 --> 02:42:11.879 - of some actual residents because most of the people in that neighborhood association were landowners 02:42:11.879 --> 02:42:19.742 - who didn't actually live in the neighborhood. So the High Point Residence Association, not the neighborhood, 02:42:19.742 --> 02:42:23.998 - but the Residence Association was formed in April of 2006. 02:42:24.162 --> 02:42:30.494 - The goal was to maintain and improve the architectural integrity of the neighborhood, but specifically, 02:42:30.494 --> 02:42:36.643 - the membership was restricted only to people living in that area. It was for residents to talk about 02:42:36.643 --> 02:42:40.478 - their neighborhood. I want to talk about one house real quick. 02:42:40.610 --> 02:42:45.901 - that's in our neighborhood. It's on Cottage Grove. It's right on the corner of Grand and Cottage Grove. 02:42:45.901 --> 02:42:51.040 - It's a beautiful house now. It wasn't so beautiful for a while because there was a lady named Martha 02:42:51.040 --> 02:42:56.178 - Douglas who lived in there until she was 100 years old. And when she died, this house was purchased. 02:42:56.178 --> 02:43:01.317 - I thought it was going to be torn down, but instead the people who bought it, they fixed it up. They 02:43:01.317 --> 02:43:06.608 - made it look beautiful. They put in a lot of special effort to paint it baby blue, fix the roof up with 02:43:06.608 --> 02:43:09.406 - the traditional shingles, planted roses all around it. 02:43:09.538 --> 02:43:15.272 - That group was called Horn Properties, which is a large corporation that owns a lot of properties in 02:43:15.272 --> 02:43:21.518 - the area, but they chose to fix this one up, and it is beautiful. It's the corner anchor of our neighborhood. 02:43:21.518 --> 02:43:26.912 - And I hope that they choose to do that with other properties in their neighborhood. Thank you. 02:43:26.912 --> 02:43:33.214 - Thank you. Next commenter in chambers, and then we'll move to see if someone's going to win this prize online. 02:43:48.386 --> 02:43:57.541 - I'm Elizabeth Cox Ash. I am a member of the McDowell Gardens Neighborhood Association and we 02:43:57.541 --> 02:44:06.302 - are Bloomington's very first historic conservation district and later historic district. 02:44:06.914 --> 02:44:16.335 - And I recommend all nine of you go back 25 years ago and please read how we went through the whole process 02:44:16.335 --> 02:44:25.403 - of becoming first a conservation district and a historic district. A lot of your questions that you're 02:44:25.403 --> 02:44:31.390 - asking tonight can be answered just by reading this. Another thing. 02:44:32.034 --> 02:44:43.365 - Cottage Grove has many of the original showers homes. This means they have hardwoods from 150, 160 years 02:44:43.365 --> 02:44:54.156 - ago. Those are not grown anymore. So if those are torn down, you've lost the sustainability of this 02:44:54.156 --> 02:45:01.278 - neighborhood. You've lost it. When McDowell Gardens started this, 02:45:01.538 --> 02:45:11.757 - 25 years ago, we were 60% rental, 40% owner occupied. The rentals were many times, they were owners 02:45:11.757 --> 02:45:22.282 - whose grandma who had the house, and they were out of the area, in some cases, out of the country. So, 02:45:22.282 --> 02:45:25.246 - any rate, the importance is, 02:45:26.242 --> 02:45:37.188 - Once we got our historic conservation district, you would not believe how fast within the next few years 02:45:37.188 --> 02:45:47.613 - it flipped. Now we are over 60% owner occupied and 40%, maybe even less, rental. That left a lot of 02:45:47.613 --> 02:45:54.910 - affordable housing available for homeowners to buy. We still continue 02:45:55.042 --> 02:46:01.888 - Even though prices have gone up, we still continue getting new buyers in. We are a very attractive 02:46:01.888 --> 02:46:08.527 - neighborhood. I just want you to all know that. Please, please do this. Save this neighborhood. 02:46:08.527 --> 02:46:15.650 - Thank you. Thank you so very much. I'm going to go online and then we'll come to you here in chambers. 02:46:15.650 --> 02:46:17.310 - Is there anyone online? 02:46:17.474 --> 02:46:25.320 - Oh, yes, the winner. All right. Comments are online. You've received, what have they received? 02:46:25.320 --> 02:46:33.745 - This gavel, you will receive this gavel. Okay, but go ahead, person online. Is this me? Am I the only 02:46:33.745 --> 02:46:42.004 - person online? Yes, yes, that is you. Okay, yes, hi. My name is Michael Brahms. I am a out of state 02:46:42.004 --> 02:46:45.886 - property owner, developer. I've owned property 02:46:46.146 --> 02:46:53.697 - in Cottage Grove for the past 25 years. I heard one of the council members express some concern about 02:46:53.697 --> 02:47:01.174 - engagement with other people in the neighborhood. I live in New York City, which is not close by any 02:47:01.174 --> 02:47:08.651 - means. I can tell you from my personal experience, I felt that the efforts to reach out to people in 02:47:08.651 --> 02:47:12.574 - the neighborhood were more than sufficient. I was on 02:47:12.738 --> 02:47:20.319 - the phone, not having to come in for both of the meetings at the library that were held regarding this. 02:47:20.319 --> 02:47:27.682 - So for me personally, that was not a concern at all. I feel that maybe if people didn't participate, 02:47:27.682 --> 02:47:35.409 - they didn't maybe want to. But I can tell you being out of state, I had no problem getting a notification 02:47:35.409 --> 02:47:41.022 - at all of what was going on and constant communication of what was going on. 02:47:41.506 --> 02:47:50.708 - I will tell you as a property owner in the neighborhood, I said at the last meeting, a lot of my tenants 02:47:50.708 --> 02:47:59.734 - value houses. They want to live in a house. That's why they rent some of my properties. If they didn't 02:47:59.734 --> 02:48:08.849 - want to live in a house, they moved downtown or to different areas. So I know for me personally, seeing 02:48:08.849 --> 02:48:11.390 - things that look like houses 02:48:12.130 --> 02:48:21.245 - and fit with the neighborhood. I don't view it as rooting my property value. I look at it as probably 02:48:21.245 --> 02:48:30.181 - increasing it at a benefit. That's it. Thank you so much. We'll be sending this gavel to you in New 02:48:30.181 --> 02:48:40.190 - York. Back in chambers. I'm Paul Ash. My wife and I went through all of this with McDowell Gardens neighborhood 02:48:40.802 --> 02:48:49.825 - Which now a historic district the the the trick is in in the the guidelines if if you write your guidelines 02:48:49.825 --> 02:48:58.264 - with everyone's input and You know be very democratic about it. You can really avoid an awful lot of 02:48:58.264 --> 02:49:05.950 - controversy, but if you don't approve this historic or historic conservation district I can 02:49:06.114 --> 02:49:17.182 - I can pretty well tell you what'll happen because when we first were setting our boundaries, we wanted 02:49:17.182 --> 02:49:28.035 - to set them up on First Street, so you know, right south of the hospital properties. And we got some 02:49:28.035 --> 02:49:33.086 - real opposition and had to pull back to Wiley. 02:49:33.282 --> 02:49:42.333 - guess what happened to all those little affordable houses? They were historic, not always, I mean they 02:49:42.333 --> 02:49:51.208 - were humble, but rentals and people had lived in them a long time and hadn't really kept them up and 02:49:51.208 --> 02:50:00.522 - they're gone. They did not have the historic protections and so what you saw there further on 12th Street 02:50:00.522 --> 02:50:03.070 - where there were empty lots, 02:50:03.938 --> 02:50:14.255 - Yeah, you're going to see more of that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is there anyone else in chambers? 02:50:14.255 --> 02:50:24.373 - And then we'll go online again. Go ahead. Hello. My name is Dr. John Butler. I'd like to just address 02:50:24.373 --> 02:50:33.598 - a few of the questions that have been asked and a few of the statements that have been made. 02:50:33.890 --> 02:50:40.447 - Councilmember rough asked some questions about our Boundaries on the eastern side and there were some 02:50:40.447 --> 02:50:47.196 - homes on the eastern side that we would have liked to included We would have liked to had our boundaries 02:50:47.196 --> 02:50:53.624 - stretch further east And that was actually the majority of the people who responded to us felt that 02:50:53.624 --> 02:51:00.116 - we we should go ahead and include those homes but as with the people of McDowell Gardens we ran into 02:51:00.116 --> 02:51:02.366 - quite a considerable pushback from 02:51:02.466 --> 02:51:09.795 - one property owner who basically said I can't condense you including those homes and so we attempted 02:51:09.795 --> 02:51:17.052 - to negotiate with that owner and we did not extend our boundaries further east. Apparently that was 02:51:17.052 --> 02:51:24.454 - not enough because this owner's still opposing us. In terms of some statements that were made earlier 02:51:24.454 --> 02:51:29.534 - about this and affordability, I think those were absolutely off base. 02:51:29.986 --> 02:51:36.870 - because it's not a simple case of a home being preserved, historically preserved, and then the price 02:51:36.870 --> 02:51:43.823 - goes up. Actually, it's sort of an option between the home being historically preserved and maybe the 02:51:43.823 --> 02:51:50.708 - home is fixed up and there's some investment, so the price would go up slightly, or the home is torn 02:51:50.708 --> 02:51:55.070 - down and it's replaced by a million dollar investment property. 02:51:55.618 --> 02:52:03.118 - That million dollar investment property is absolutely out of my reach, and I imagine it's out of reach 02:52:03.118 --> 02:52:10.618 - of most Bloomington homeowners. And so I think that was a mischaracterization that a historic district 02:52:10.618 --> 02:52:18.045 - is going to lead to higher prices. If anything, by protecting marginal homes or homes that need to be 02:52:18.045 --> 02:52:23.870 - fixed up, what we do is we allow for that, I don't know what you would call it, 02:52:25.442 --> 02:52:32.229 - Sweat equity where the owner can actually you know put in there in their free time they can fix up their 02:52:32.229 --> 02:52:38.692 - home they can improve that home and That can then be sold or moved on to another property so Having 02:52:38.692 --> 02:52:45.414 - some of these homes that are not as good shape that will be included in this district will allow people 02:52:45.414 --> 02:52:51.877 - to fix them up And will allow some of these homes that would be torn down because that's what would 02:52:51.877 --> 02:52:54.398 - happen. They would just be removed and 02:52:54.818 --> 02:53:01.277 - They will still stay viable structures that can be lived in. And to our east, we have lost an incredible 02:53:01.277 --> 02:53:07.613 - number of homes. There was the rest of Cottage Grove neighborhood, but it's gone. And it was taken out 02:53:07.613 --> 02:53:13.826 - by the developer who's opposing us and trying to save the rest of it. So I think the Better Business 02:53:13.826 --> 02:53:19.977 - Booster guy said that there was one home maybe that was threatened. That's simply not true. I mean, 02:53:19.977 --> 02:53:23.422 - they tore down 14 in the other neighborhood. Thank you. 02:53:24.226 --> 02:53:34.196 - Perfect timing one more comment and in chambers, then we'll move online All right My name is Jordan 02:53:34.196 --> 02:53:44.165 - Evans. I did speak at the last meeting I am the current president of the old Northeast neighborhood 02:53:44.165 --> 02:53:51.742 - association to be clear We did participate in the meetings in the beginning 02:53:52.354 --> 02:54:00.396 - What happened was our comments were disregarded as they were not in line with the petitioners. There 02:54:00.396 --> 02:54:08.597 - was no meaningful discussion, no compromise with the Old Northeast, nor any further engagement. I want 02:54:08.597 --> 02:54:16.878 - to also be clear that this is the last neighborhood with zoned density near campus. If we go to protect 02:54:16.878 --> 02:54:20.222 - this the way that this is being proposed, 02:54:20.418 --> 02:54:27.974 - we're eliminating the ability for any further density to be built close to campus, which in turn will 02:54:27.974 --> 02:54:35.382 - affect affordability across Bloomington. I feel that it is counterintuitive to everything that I've 02:54:35.382 --> 02:54:43.383 - heard you all discuss tonight and last week to preserve these homes. As mentioned by the folks in McDowell, 02:54:43.383 --> 02:54:47.902 - their home values have gone up. This is not going to lead to 02:54:48.162 --> 02:54:55.278 - Cheaper rents or anything along those lines I want to be clear in my position with the old northeast. 02:54:55.278 --> 02:55:02.464 - I don't oppose the historical district I oppose the boundaries and the history lesson mr Ford provided 02:55:02.464 --> 02:55:09.511 - for all of us high point separated due to a difference in ideals and needs three years after the old 02:55:09.511 --> 02:55:14.046 - northeast was formed very quickly it was realized and actualized 02:55:14.178 --> 02:55:21.882 - Ask that if possible council pushes to reconsider the boundaries to limit this to the High Point neighborhood 02:55:21.882 --> 02:55:29.026 - and Even further south of where it is into the already historical district there for those of you not 02:55:29.026 --> 02:55:36.310 - familiar High Point is Lincoln Washington 12th to 8th Thank you for your time Thank you, and we'll move 02:55:36.310 --> 02:55:39.742 - online. Are there any more commenters online? Oh 02:55:40.834 --> 02:55:48.761 - OK, fantastic. You don't win a prize, but we'd love to hear from you. Person online, I think you should 02:55:48.761 --> 02:55:56.687 - be unmuted at this point. Hi there. Hello. Hi, I'm Rebecca Swanson, and I'm a property owner, have been 02:55:56.687 --> 02:56:04.614 - for about 20 years in this area. And I just want to say simple and sweet, I think this is a great idea. 02:56:04.614 --> 02:56:08.958 - I lived in that neighborhood for 15 years and watched it 02:56:09.666 --> 02:56:16.271 - Just really a lot of sad investment property owners come in and do things with the neighborhood that 02:56:16.271 --> 02:56:23.071 - made it not feel like a neighborhood that I wanted to live in anymore. I really wish we would have done 02:56:23.071 --> 02:56:29.610 - this a long time ago. I think it's a great idea. And so now I'm a landlord and I just wanted you to 02:56:29.610 --> 02:56:35.038 - hear me say that I still think it's a good idea. If you wanna know more about why, 02:56:35.266 --> 02:56:42.523 - I don't wanna take up your time. I just wanted you to hear the voice of a landlord and somebody who 02:56:42.523 --> 02:56:49.780 - owns property that I support this. They were communicating with me clearly. I found everybody to be 02:56:49.780 --> 02:56:57.545 - very, there's no hidden agenda here. So thank you. Thank you so very much. Back in chambers, Mr. Rousseau. 02:56:57.545 --> 02:57:04.222 - I don't live in this neighborhood, but I go through it almost every day. And I've actually, 02:57:04.386 --> 02:57:10.828 - Had the pleasure of getting to know several of the neighbors because they're out in front of their houses 02:57:10.828 --> 02:57:17.148 - taking care of them and I Stop on my bicycle and get to know them and I really enjoy going through this 02:57:17.148 --> 02:57:23.407 - neighborhood because it's so beautiful So many of the houses are just gorgeous. I Council member rough 02:57:23.407 --> 02:57:29.545 - made the mention about asked questions about why it wasn't extended east of grant on 12th Street And 02:57:29.545 --> 02:57:32.158 - I asked the same question myself There's a 02:57:32.514 --> 02:57:38.214 - Two or three houses there with brick facades that look pretty good and look pretty historic to me. One 02:57:38.214 --> 02:57:43.970 - of them without a brick facade also looks very good. I noticed the other day that it's got a demolition 02:57:43.970 --> 02:57:49.781 - sign in front of it. There are two others in the neighborhood that have rubble on them, limestone rubble 02:57:49.781 --> 02:57:55.481 - I might notice. I might note the new houses, replacing them will not be built from limestone probably, 02:57:55.481 --> 02:58:01.126 - will not be built from brick. It's too expensive. When we're tearing down an old house, we're tearing 02:58:01.126 --> 02:58:01.790 - down value. 02:58:03.330 --> 02:58:10.961 - And yet the marketplace knows only one thing profit if it's profitable to tear down something of long-term 02:58:10.961 --> 02:58:18.236 - value, but it's Better to replace it with something that might it might not even last 20 or 30 years. 02:58:18.236 --> 02:58:25.369 - I don't know that's what they'll do and It's really important for us to step in as a city to say no 02:58:25.369 --> 02:58:33.214 - for the benefit of the whole We'd rather keep these homes It's a beautiful neighborhood. I hope you pass this 02:58:33.474 --> 02:58:46.116 - Thank you. Thank you so much. Next in the chambers. Before I start, I just want to say I really resent 02:58:46.116 --> 02:58:58.881 - this podium. I know there's a shorter one in storage, and I really wish people would get it out. I feel 02:58:58.881 --> 02:59:02.686 - literally like a talking head. 02:59:04.002 --> 02:59:11.984 - Good evening. My name is Jan Sorby, and I want to talk to you tonight about voting yes for this petition. 02:59:11.984 --> 02:59:19.590 - I understand that historic preservation and conservation districts are sometimes seen as barriers to 02:59:19.590 --> 02:59:27.346 - growth, but I would like to encourage you to see them as a tool, a tool to help Bloomington grow while 02:59:27.346 --> 02:59:33.822 - protecting the qualities that make people want to live, work, study, and invest here. 02:59:34.594 --> 02:59:42.939 - Bloomington's charm is one of its greatest assets. Our older neighborhoods with walkable streets, mature 02:59:42.939 --> 02:59:50.886 - trees, front porches, limestone architecture, and human scale design create a strong sense of place 02:59:50.886 --> 02:59:58.913 - that benefits residents, local businesses, and the university community as well. These neighborhoods 02:59:58.913 --> 03:00:04.158 - also teach important lessons about how people live well together. 03:00:04.962 --> 03:00:12.262 - lessons worth preserving for the upcoming generations. Many older homes were designed before 03:00:12.262 --> 03:00:20.112 - air conditioning, and they rely on natural light, cross ventilation, shade trees, deep porches, and 03:00:20.112 --> 03:00:27.962 - operable windows to remain comfortable and energy efficient. The neighborhoods themselves encourage 03:00:27.962 --> 03:00:30.238 - walking, social connections. 03:00:30.594 --> 03:00:39.153 - an even more human scale relationship between building and public space. As a parent and a community 03:00:39.153 --> 03:00:47.627 - leader, we should want future generations to inherit a Bloomington that still reflects those values 03:00:47.627 --> 03:00:56.101 - rather than losing them piece by piece over time. Preservation also supports goals this council and 03:00:56.101 --> 03:00:58.558 - our community already value. 03:00:59.298 --> 03:01:09.253 - reusing existing buildings reduces demolition waste and Excuse me conserves the embodied carbon it supports 03:01:09.253 --> 03:01:18.654 - reinvestment in neighborhoods where infrastructure already exists and rehabilitation projects support 03:01:18.654 --> 03:01:27.134 - local contractors and skilled trades Importantly preservation does not mean stopping change 03:01:27.746 --> 03:01:36.229 - Bloomington's older neighborhoods have always evolved over time. Conservation districts simply help 03:01:36.229 --> 03:01:44.713 - guide new development. So it complements existing neighborhoods rather than overwhelming them. This 03:01:44.713 --> 03:01:53.451 - is not a choice between preservation and growth. Bloomington needs housing and badly needs investment. 03:01:53.451 --> 03:01:57.438 - Preserving helps ensure that the city's growth 03:01:58.082 --> 03:02:11.292 - It does not gradually lose qualities that make Bloomington distinctive and sustainable and livable. 03:02:11.292 --> 03:02:24.766 - Please support this. Thank you so much. Next in chambers. I'm on the other side of the spectrum here. 03:02:25.954 --> 03:02:33.187 - My name's Doug Horn with Horn Properties. Our 50-year-old firm has been supportive of multiple historic 03:02:33.187 --> 03:02:40.351 - district efforts, University Courts, Garden Hill, for example. We own four single-house local historic 03:02:40.351 --> 03:02:47.445 - districts, one of which is included on the National Historic Register. We pride ourselves in offering 03:02:47.445 --> 03:02:53.566 - a variety of affordable housing options across our 70 properties residential portfolio. 03:02:53.954 --> 03:03:01.471 - Most of our buildings are historically designated. This petition concerns us on multiple fronts. Most 03:03:01.471 --> 03:03:08.914 - requests for multi-property historic district designations have been brought forward by neighborhood 03:03:08.914 --> 03:03:16.431 - associations. This one engages across boundaries of two, neither of which offer support, one of which 03:03:16.431 --> 03:03:20.190 - asks you to deny it. Also, most proposals focus on 03:03:20.322 --> 03:03:27.479 - platted homogeneous additions to the city, sharing a common human demographic and story. This one is 03:03:27.479 --> 03:03:34.990 - a confab of various additions and varied stories. As you walk the area, you can feel shifts in character, 03:03:34.990 --> 03:03:42.643 - period, layout, and quality. Most concerning is the fact that local designation and its associated limiting 03:03:42.643 --> 03:03:43.422 - parameters 03:03:43.938 --> 03:03:51.672 - will significantly impair if not completely stop a property owner's ability to increase area density 03:03:51.672 --> 03:03:59.713 - as encouraged by our current UDO and its associated zoning designations. Expansion of building footprint 03:03:59.713 --> 03:04:05.150 - is significantly limited or prohibited by existing historic districts. 03:04:05.698 --> 03:04:13.457 - Owners attempt to continue to salvage or adapt existing structures to affordable higher densities through 03:04:13.457 --> 03:04:20.849 - cold compliant additions will all but be eliminated, even to the lowly contributing class that makes 03:04:20.849 --> 03:04:28.462 - up a majority of the buildings affected by this proposal. In our opinion, this prohibition negates near 03:04:28.462 --> 03:04:31.902 - and longer term community land use intentions. 03:04:33.122 --> 03:04:41.128 - Through all of this, we must remember that absolute protection already exists for these properties and 03:04:41.128 --> 03:04:48.978 - that the HPC must approve any building permit application filed on even these lesser properties from 03:04:48.978 --> 03:04:56.751 - total demolition to something as mundane as replacing an entry door. Three minutes is almost up and 03:04:56.751 --> 03:05:02.814 - I have five additional concerns that do not support this request and in fact, 03:05:03.554 --> 03:05:11.373 - We have few arguments in support of it. The most significant of these, however, is that the petitioners 03:05:11.373 --> 03:05:19.041 - are wonderful people. And with heartfelt intentions, which I'm sure you would agree, on balance, we'd 03:05:19.041 --> 03:05:26.710 - ask that you vote no on this proposed ordinance. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you so much. 03:05:26.710 --> 03:05:32.574 - Next in chambers. And while they're signing in, is there anybody else online? 03:05:33.378 --> 03:05:41.286 - Okay, if you are still online and you'd like to, all you need to do is raise your hand and you'd like 03:05:41.286 --> 03:05:49.658 - to comment. Go ahead. I'll be quick. I won't need three minutes. My name is Melody Duesner. I'm a professor 03:05:49.658 --> 03:05:57.566 - at IU. I serve on the Historic Preservation Commission. I am a renter in Bryan Park and a pedestrian. 03:05:57.698 --> 03:06:06.108 - And I just want to reiterate that if you are on the fence about what to do about this district and how 03:06:06.108 --> 03:06:14.518 - you want to vote on it, I just want to remind you that we really have no options in the middle. I wish 03:06:14.518 --> 03:06:21.214 - there was a way for us to kind of find maybe some middle ground, but there's not. 03:06:21.378 --> 03:06:31.671 - the district is not protected these houses become worth more dead than alive and There is no way that 03:06:31.671 --> 03:06:41.662 - people with less money fewer resources We cannot compete with out-of-town developers. We cannot at 03:06:41.858 --> 03:06:50.026 - at historic preservation, we cannot halt the demolition of things. You will not be able to see us in 03:06:50.026 --> 03:06:58.275 - here for each of these remarkable houses because although they make Bloomington Bloomington, they are 03:06:58.275 --> 03:07:06.523 - smaller scale and ordinary and they belong to ordinary people. So I'm asking you to keep in mind that 03:07:06.523 --> 03:07:09.758 - even if you are worried that a historic 03:07:10.018 --> 03:07:17.024 - District in your mind is overreach or something along those lines We have no other option in terms of 03:07:17.024 --> 03:07:24.579 - preserving the character and just the existence of these homes Given the scale of development in Bloomington. 03:07:24.579 --> 03:07:29.662 - They will be gone. Thank you Thank you so much next person in chambers. I 03:07:44.930 --> 03:07:55.121 - My name is Mary Kropinski I've been a local architect to Bloomington for almost 40 years now gave it 03:07:55.121 --> 03:08:05.312 - away I Lived at 213 East Cottage Grove for 30 years It was an affordable solution to raise my family 03:08:05.312 --> 03:08:14.494 - in at the time I want to share part of a story that over the years I had several neighbors 03:08:14.882 --> 03:08:22.319 - Were elderly and as they passed away those homes became rental homes and As those homes became rental 03:08:22.319 --> 03:08:29.684 - instead of being one person or two person homes They became three person homes and five person homes 03:08:29.684 --> 03:08:37.486 - by adding bedrooms and basements and such as that happened You know while you bought into the neighborhood 03:08:37.486 --> 03:08:43.902 - by living there that there would be parties in the neighborhood it became extraordinary 03:08:44.738 --> 03:08:52.580 - To have 50 people in the yard across the street from you where your grandpa Bob used to once live That 03:08:52.580 --> 03:09:00.345 - became almost unbearable Especially when you could no longer park on your street There are many homes 03:09:00.345 --> 03:09:08.339 - in the neighborhood that don't have driveways and I parked on the street for 30 years but when the house 03:09:08.339 --> 03:09:14.430 - is turned over I Had to routinely walk a block away even if I had groceries and 03:09:15.330 --> 03:09:24.486 - So don't think that transition is necessarily always good. This neighborhood has rich fabric. Please 03:09:24.486 --> 03:09:33.551 - maintain it. Please maintain the niche one of the niches of Bloomington. The hole is always greater 03:09:33.551 --> 03:09:42.617 - than the individual. And yes while these homes may be protected from a demolition permit one by one 03:09:42.617 --> 03:09:44.158 - they will not be 03:09:44.354 --> 03:09:52.100 - Protected as well as if they're looked at as a whole. I wish this would have been done 20 years ago 03:09:52.100 --> 03:09:59.924 - And I think we'd still have a lot of that fabric here. So please please Grant this neighborhood this 03:09:59.924 --> 03:10:07.902 - district. Thank you. Thank you so much Next person in chambers. Thank you all for your comments so far 03:10:18.562 --> 03:10:24.664 - My name is Jim Butler. My wife and I bought a house in this district 50 years ago so I've probably seen 03:10:24.664 --> 03:10:30.765 - this change and evolve more than most people in this room and we live there for about 10 years and then 03:10:30.765 --> 03:10:36.632 - we bought another house a couple blocks outside the district so we have a long association. When we 03:10:36.632 --> 03:10:42.675 - live there we bought it for really two reasons. One it was within walking distance of downtown. It was 03:10:42.675 --> 03:10:48.542 - a neighborhood with sidewalks where you had children. We had a lot of young young people newlyweds. 03:10:49.442 --> 03:10:55.445 - It was a neighborhood of young children retired people business owners factory workers. We even had 03:10:55.445 --> 03:11:02.047 - one state representative living in that district at the time. So it's not a homogenous it has a heterogeneous 03:11:02.047 --> 03:11:08.050 - character to it which was really nice people knew each other and we didn't buy the house because it 03:11:08.050 --> 03:11:14.352 - was historic. We actually bought the Ivan Adams house without knowing who he was. We found little pieces 03:11:14.352 --> 03:11:18.014 - of carved limestone in the yard and such that came to light. 03:11:18.146 --> 03:11:24.517 - Number of years later, but to me having neighborhoods where you can have young people with children 03:11:24.517 --> 03:11:30.887 - is important We have grandchildren in the MCC SC. It's my understanding that the student population 03:11:30.887 --> 03:11:37.385 - is decreasing Primarily because there's not enough affordable housing in Monroe County. So people are 03:11:37.385 --> 03:11:39.870 - moving to Green County Owen County and 03:11:40.866 --> 03:11:48.032 - And if I just a casual driving around town, I see all these apartment complexes. I don't see playgrounds 03:11:48.032 --> 03:11:54.721 - for kids in those. Those are not made for families. So that's my feeling, my comments. Thank you. 03:11:54.721 --> 03:11:59.294 - Thank you. Is there anyone else in council chambers? Take it away. 03:12:08.418 --> 03:12:14.015 - My name is Jeremy Hackard. I am the current chair of the Historic Preservation Commission We're here 03:12:14.015 --> 03:12:19.723 - today because we received an application to consider this area for historic protections The Commission 03:12:19.723 --> 03:12:25.542 - has options available to it We can consider an area's historic and architectural significance and that's 03:12:25.542 --> 03:12:31.582 - it based on the staff report that we received the information that we received from the petitioners it meets 03:12:31.682 --> 03:12:37.561 - both of those criteria, and that's why we're here tonight. There's a couple things that people have 03:12:37.561 --> 03:12:43.616 - said about what happens once things are protected. I just kind of wanted to clarify. Just two meetings 03:12:43.616 --> 03:12:49.554 - ago, there was a notable house in a historic district where we approved an addition and an ADU. Work 03:12:49.554 --> 03:12:55.491 - can be done in these areas. We have no purview over work that is done inside homes. You can renovate 03:12:55.491 --> 03:13:00.606 - all the houses all you want on the interior. It's totally fine. You can keep these up. 03:13:01.122 --> 03:13:06.901 - We also have the support from my predecessor, Sam DeSaller, who was chair before me. He asked me to 03:13:06.901 --> 03:13:12.795 - read part of a letter out for him. He writes, I'm writing to express support for the proposed Cottage 03:13:12.795 --> 03:13:18.805 - Grove Historic District. I'm a practicing architect and served on the Bloomington Historic Preservation 03:13:18.805 --> 03:13:24.699 - Commission for over a decade. I've seen many proposals for historic districts. I did not vote for all 03:13:24.699 --> 03:13:27.646 - of them, but this one has my wholehearted support. 03:13:28.066 --> 03:13:34.015 - Cottage Grove is the type of neighborhood you think of when you think of Bloomington. It has a distinct 03:13:34.015 --> 03:13:40.250 - architecture character, and streetscape is contiguous and is under threat. He says, please vote to establish 03:13:40.250 --> 03:13:46.085 - Cottage Grove Historic District. And I would also like to add, this is a great way for us to preserve 03:13:46.085 --> 03:13:52.034 - our cultural heritage, the architecture that we used to have in this town, the limestone buildings that 03:13:52.034 --> 03:13:57.182 - we used to have. Let's keep it. Let's let people continue to live here. It's near campus. 03:13:58.018 --> 03:14:10.102 - Please vote, yes. Thank you. Last chance. Comments in chambers. Good evening. My name is Eric Ost, and 03:14:10.102 --> 03:14:21.364 - I am currently the president of the Elm Heights Neighborhood Association as well as the Council 03:14:21.364 --> 03:14:27.934 - of Neighborhood Associations, but I'm not here to speak 03:14:28.130 --> 03:14:38.339 - in regards to any position of those organizations other than to mention that The Elm Heights neighborhood 03:14:38.339 --> 03:14:48.164 - association is currently reviewing its historic district guidelines and I want to offer that as proof 03:14:48.164 --> 03:14:56.254 - that guidelines are not set in stone and they are open to revision I Wanted to read 03:14:57.058 --> 03:15:04.664 - Section of the comprehensive plan that I think is applicable here And this is on page 80 I believe But 03:15:04.664 --> 03:15:12.491 - anyway, it's under a section housing trends and issues some of Bloomington's neighborhoods are relatively 03:15:12.491 --> 03:15:20.466 - diverse both economically and by housing type whereas others are comprised almost entirely of single-family 03:15:20.466 --> 03:15:24.158 - homes and limited in development by covenants and 03:15:24.930 --> 03:15:30.830 - And I think in regards to the resolution that was introduced earlier, I think covenants will have a 03:15:30.830 --> 03:15:36.731 - large role in terms of being able to densify many neighborhoods in Bloomington, where perhaps there 03:15:36.731 --> 03:15:42.808 - should be denser development. But most core neighborhoods are stable, but are trending towards a lower 03:15:42.808 --> 03:15:48.945 - percentage of new single-family homes. With greater density in the city comes the challenge to preserve 03:15:48.945 --> 03:15:50.302 - neighborhood character 03:15:50.466 --> 03:15:58.387 - and the opportunity to strengthen neighborhoods by developing small commercial nodes as community gathering 03:15:58.387 --> 03:16:05.868 - places. Existing core neighborhoods should not be the focus of cities increasing density. Elm Heights 03:16:05.868 --> 03:16:13.495 - is a neighborhood that had been since 1988 and it is very dense. Infrastructure plays a very large role 03:16:13.495 --> 03:16:16.062 - in being able to increase density. 03:16:17.122 --> 03:16:24.961 - affordability is something that we've spoken of and I have come to appreciate the value of Naturally 03:16:24.961 --> 03:16:33.266 - occurring affordable homes and these are homes that were built 1950 1920 some even before that and they're 03:16:33.266 --> 03:16:41.027 - built usually with very good construction and When those homes are demolished in a new structure is 03:16:41.027 --> 03:16:44.830 - built it is going to be far less affordable than 03:16:45.826 --> 03:16:54.720 - perhaps designed for one purpose If this if for nothing else besides just neighborhood Agency, which 03:16:54.720 --> 03:17:03.526 - is another thing that historic districts and conservation districts Provide for you should consider 03:17:03.526 --> 03:17:12.420 - the effect of What conservation districts and historic districts can do to preserve affordability so 03:17:12.420 --> 03:17:14.622 - I asked you to support a 03:17:14.914 --> 03:17:22.849 - the creation of this conservation district. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Any comments online? 03:17:22.849 --> 03:17:30.559 - All right. Last commenters online. Take it away. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Hi. My name is John 03:17:30.559 --> 03:17:38.045 - Lawrence, and I'm from the Bryant Park neighborhood. I'm the past president, but I'm not here in an 03:17:38.045 --> 03:17:42.462 - official capacity. I hope you'll support this proposition. 03:17:42.690 --> 03:17:48.263 - A local historic district can be an important tool for protecting long-term neighborhood affordability 03:17:48.263 --> 03:17:53.837 - because it helps preserve the existing scale, character, and housing patterns of a neighborhood rather 03:17:53.837 --> 03:17:59.302 - than encouraging speculative redevelopment and luxury tear downs. In neighborhoods like this one and 03:17:59.302 --> 03:18:04.983 - mine, rising land values often create pressure to replace modest older homes with larger, more expensive 03:18:04.983 --> 03:18:08.446 - projects that drive up taxes, rents, and overall housing costs. 03:18:08.706 --> 03:18:14.781 - Historic district protections can help slow that cycle by encouraging reinvestment in existing homes, 03:18:14.781 --> 03:18:20.796 - preserving smaller and more attainable housing stock, and maintaining the diverse lockable character 03:18:20.796 --> 03:18:27.169 - that makes the neighborhood livable for people of different incomes and stages of life. Used thoughtfully, 03:18:27.169 --> 03:18:33.184 - historic preservation is not just about architecture. It's also about protecting community stability 03:18:33.184 --> 03:18:36.638 - and preventing displacement. So I live in one of the last 03:18:36.898 --> 03:18:44.736 - Poor neighborhoods, that's not protected. And we're feeling this pressure, the same pressure. People 03:18:44.736 --> 03:18:52.651 - are buying small affordable houses, spending $200,000 on them, tearing them down, putting up $500,000 03:18:52.651 --> 03:18:59.868 - structures and charging $1,000 a bedroom. So we are losing affordable housing that exists in 03:18:59.868 --> 03:19:04.990 - our neighborhood, and it is being turned into luxury development. 03:19:05.570 --> 03:19:15.158 - Historic protection is one of the few ways to protect this affordability. So I hope you will help protect 03:19:15.158 --> 03:19:24.294 - this cute little neighborhood and give them the protection they need. Thank you very much. Thank you 03:19:24.294 --> 03:19:32.887 - so much. Any last commenters online? Oh, after the last call, our final commenter in the room. 03:19:32.887 --> 03:19:34.334 - I've missed it. 03:19:34.498 --> 03:19:45.877 - Go for it. In 1978, there was a landmark case, Penn Central versus New York City. This beautiful station 03:19:45.877 --> 03:19:56.822 - was going to be torn down and was fought by the local preservationists in New York. This went to the 03:19:56.822 --> 03:20:01.374 - Supreme Court because the investors said, 03:20:01.762 --> 03:20:09.254 - We now own, we have every right to build the tallest building and this is in our way and we're gonna 03:20:09.254 --> 03:20:17.339 - tear it down. So it became this conflict between property use and the community good. And what's interesting 03:20:17.339 --> 03:20:24.831 - is they found in favor of the community. They said, as long it is not a taking, as long as the owner 03:20:24.831 --> 03:20:31.358 - can still make a reasonable economic return on the property. And that is the foundation 03:20:31.970 --> 03:20:39.519 - of your decision today. That's the law you stand on. That's the preservation law foundational rule. 03:20:39.519 --> 03:20:47.067 - You know, did you you all got maps I think of the neighborhood and it showed lot by lot and you saw 03:20:47.067 --> 03:20:54.616 - a lot of blank lots also. And what it made me think of is when we played Monopoly when I was a kid, 03:20:54.616 --> 03:21:00.126 - you know, and you get enough lots together and the houses are off of it. 03:21:00.738 --> 03:21:07.752 - and you can sell and make the big bucks and win the Monopoly game. But in my family, somebody always 03:21:07.752 --> 03:21:14.696 - cried when we played Monopoly. I don't know if everybody's experienced that, but you know, you wipe 03:21:14.696 --> 03:21:21.779 - out your little sister and she's crying. Anyway, I always went for the little houses. I don't know if 03:21:21.779 --> 03:21:28.446 - it's part of me always, but I'd get those two little houses, the affordable ones right near Go. 03:21:30.818 --> 03:21:37.773 - There are speculators in this neighborhood and they're good people but their businesses to get lots 03:21:37.773 --> 03:21:44.867 - Make money on them and you know someone mentioned they own 70 properties They're not going to be hurt 03:21:44.867 --> 03:21:51.960 - I mean those you heard from landlords who were happy with this project and you heard from tenants who 03:21:51.960 --> 03:21:57.246 - are happy with this Proposal these people are going to get their money back 03:21:57.986 --> 03:22:06.428 - I mean, they may not get it for the strip they bought along the high along the railroad track speculating 03:22:06.428 --> 03:22:14.710 - that the city might build a bike path, but they'll get their money out of the rest of these properties. 03:22:14.710 --> 03:22:22.753 - So let's not make anybody cry if we can and let's protect this neighborhood. You know, I, I was part 03:22:22.753 --> 03:22:26.974 - of the first local historic district in Bloomington. 03:22:27.778 --> 03:22:34.219 - And at the time, just the idea that a neighborhood could be historic was new because famous person hadn't 03:22:34.219 --> 03:22:40.296 - lived in the house. You know what I mean? But the neighborhood is a living biome. That's your time. 03:22:40.296 --> 03:22:46.372 - Am I out of time? Yes, sir. Thank you. Appreciate getting to come and talk to you. Well, thank you. 03:22:46.372 --> 03:22:52.813 - You closed this out. Thank you very much. We'll come back to council members. Any comments at this point? 03:22:52.813 --> 03:22:56.702 - Final comments? And if we could so kindly, we have a timer set. 03:22:57.250 --> 03:23:07.984 - I believe for five minutes councilmember Rallo then councilmember Rallo Well, I agree with this I support 03:23:07.984 --> 03:23:18.211 - this petition Preserves our community identity. It's sustainable Particularly the embodied energy in 03:23:18.211 --> 03:23:26.110 - these structures I do see over time that it trends to owner occupancy in time 03:23:26.274 --> 03:23:33.055 - And I'm I'm satisfied with the boundaries. I Appreciate I just want to say I appreciate the work that's 03:23:33.055 --> 03:23:40.032 - been done this I really appreciate the butlers for their work. Mr San wise put together in a very complete 03:23:40.032 --> 03:23:46.747 - pack packet That I appreciate and I also appreciate the Star Preservation Commission for coming in and 03:23:46.747 --> 03:23:52.094 - giving your Expert expert opinion on this. So I'll be supporting it. Thank you. I 03:23:55.554 --> 03:24:01.920 - Thank you very much. I have a lot I could say, but it's already late, so I'll keep it fairly brief. 03:24:01.920 --> 03:24:08.478 - But I just want to say that I very, very much support the conservation of Cottage Grove. I walked this 03:24:08.478 --> 03:24:14.908 - neighborhood, and I believe that it strongly contributes to much of what Bloomington is, providing a 03:24:14.908 --> 03:24:20.638 - lot of character and community and a strong sense of our own history here in Bloomington. 03:24:21.570 --> 03:24:28.451 - I understand the importance and the desire for development and profit and for building new homes, but 03:24:28.451 --> 03:24:35.331 - it does not need to be done at the expense of this sense of neighborhood that I felt very strongly as 03:24:35.331 --> 03:24:42.077 - I was walking around Cottage Grove. You know, we talked a lot about affordable housing. I really do 03:24:42.077 --> 03:24:48.958 - believe that this is a large element of helping to maintain some affordable housing in our community. 03:24:49.346 --> 03:24:54.953 - To deny this request is to give the thumbs up for demolition and for cheap but overpriced development 03:24:54.953 --> 03:25:00.505 - where they will charge a lot more than people will be paying to live in these homes that are already 03:25:00.505 --> 03:25:06.002 - here in Cottage Grove. It may not happen in the immediate future or even within the next few years, 03:25:06.002 --> 03:25:11.774 - but it absolutely will happen eventually. And I'm not at all okay with that. Newer is not always better. 03:25:12.610 --> 03:25:19.921 - The vacant lots that I saw when I walked around the neighborhood just felt so harsh and out of place. 03:25:19.921 --> 03:25:27.448 - And the new buildings that I saw going up also did not inspire much of a sense of belonging in the area. 03:25:27.448 --> 03:25:34.687 - Lost my place now. And density has come up a couple of times in this conversation. So I want to just 03:25:34.687 --> 03:25:42.142 - forcefully push back against the idea that this conservation designation would destroy density efforts. 03:25:42.594 --> 03:25:48.222 - Not at all. ADUs are permissible here. In fact, I saw one property that's planning on adding one soon. 03:25:48.222 --> 03:25:53.850 - I saw another property that already had a really cute brick one out in back. Editions are also allowed 03:25:53.850 --> 03:25:59.533 - to these buildings. I saw at least one home that had already expanded with some additions. And in fact, 03:25:59.533 --> 03:26:05.161 - I know that there were at least a few of them that I probably just didn't even notice as I walked past 03:26:05.161 --> 03:26:07.838 - them because they just blended in so seamlessly. 03:26:08.514 --> 03:26:15.668 - Long story short, I feel very strongly about this preservation. So I'm very happy to support this tonight 03:26:15.668 --> 03:26:22.754 - and hope that it passes. Thank you. Yes, thank you. I feel a little bit like the Lorax right now because 03:26:22.754 --> 03:26:29.705 - I'm going to speak for the renters. When I was in college, I started college in 2020, graduated in 23. 03:26:29.705 --> 03:26:36.589 - The first apartment that I signed a lease for was for $1,200 with one other person. So I was spending 03:26:36.589 --> 03:26:37.534 - $600 a month. 03:26:37.634 --> 03:26:45.162 - And that was pretty much all I could afford. There was no option for me to go to the luxury apartments. 03:26:45.162 --> 03:26:52.762 - I now work two jobs and I still can't afford anywhere near that level of rent. And so when I look around 03:26:52.762 --> 03:27:00.361 - and I think about historic preservation as one of the only opportunities to preserve some of the housing 03:27:00.361 --> 03:27:05.790 - opportunities for people who look like me, for people who grew up like me, 03:27:06.562 --> 03:27:12.287 - When we think about the working class, they are not in those luxury apartments. If we want to bring 03:27:12.287 --> 03:27:18.126 - the working class back to Bloomington, we have to start providing real housing for them. And it's not 03:27:18.126 --> 03:27:24.079 - new apartments, guy rises. So I'm really excited to support this. This is in my district. And the other 03:27:24.079 --> 03:27:30.376 - thing I just want to say is I think I've had the opportunity to work with the butlers who are the petitioners 03:27:30.376 --> 03:27:36.158 - for about a year now. And for those of you who don't know, I've done some organizing professionally. 03:27:36.418 --> 03:27:44.294 - they're kind of the best I've ever seen. Like they knocked every single door multiple times. Like they 03:27:44.294 --> 03:27:51.940 - can articulate probably every single person's personal opinion. And that is incredibly commendable. 03:27:51.940 --> 03:27:59.739 - And I really, really admire how persistent you've been. And this is, I think we should always support 03:27:59.739 --> 03:28:06.238 - community members who have really engaged democratically, especially in an age where 03:28:06.786 --> 03:28:15.895 - Democracy seems to be dying in darkness. So thank you very much for your efforts and I look forward 03:28:15.895 --> 03:28:25.095 - to supporting this Yeah, I tend not to speak that much during council meetings So I'll probably take 03:28:25.095 --> 03:28:32.382 - all my five minutes and then I'll take my two afterwards my total seven This is 03:28:32.898 --> 03:28:40.318 - So first of all, I wanna say something really quick. It's been mentioned by a couple of my 03:28:40.318 --> 03:28:48.880 - council colleagues, most recently by Councilman Zulek to talk about the oft sort of repeated and assumed 03:28:48.880 --> 03:28:57.524 - but demonstrably totally false idea that we will get cheaper rents by allowing development just to follow 03:28:57.524 --> 03:29:01.438 - the market and let development take its course. 03:29:02.050 --> 03:29:11.276 - I was doing this a little earlier. Just look, anybody else got their computer? 422 East Cottage Grove, 03:29:11.276 --> 03:29:20.949 - 614 North Grant, 521 North Dunn, 711 East Cottage Grove, all right in this area, all much denser multi-unit 03:29:20.949 --> 03:29:30.085 - apartments have been built and displaced, the exact kind of homes we're talking about here. The rents 03:29:30.085 --> 03:29:31.518 - in all of them, 03:29:32.578 --> 03:29:39.835 - Are fourteen hundred dollars per bedroom per month fourteen hundred It stems to be false that they're 03:29:39.835 --> 03:29:47.661 - cheaper because you can go there right now and find the existing Rental units there and they're significantly 03:29:47.661 --> 03:29:54.775 - cheaper than this It's so it's just absolutely untrue. This is going to it's demonstrably false You 03:29:54.775 --> 03:30:00.894 - can you can just look at what's available in this in this just folks in this area and 03:30:01.890 --> 03:30:11.183 - This idea of finding balance. I'm all about that But if you start from this area that's proposed right 03:30:11.183 --> 03:30:20.205 - now and you go east There's all that is not Proposed to be part of this and it's not designated you 03:30:20.205 --> 03:30:29.679 - go across the road tracks to the blocks then north from there on up to 17th Street You go across College 03:30:29.679 --> 03:30:30.942 - of Walnut and 03:30:31.202 --> 03:30:40.201 - on the other side of the tracks and go west to that whole area that goes back to where the marathon 03:30:40.201 --> 03:30:49.649 - is and where Chandler's garage is and those homes in there. You go south from this area from 10th Street 03:30:49.649 --> 03:30:58.828 - between Walnut and Indiana and Dunn and go towards town. There's plenty of balance. The vast majority 03:30:58.828 --> 03:30:59.998 - is available 03:31:00.674 --> 03:31:10.236 - for property owners to do what they want how they want when they want The balance I think is to preserve 03:31:10.236 --> 03:31:19.524 - areas like this that we have that are left that do Provide practical benefits for naturally occurring 03:31:19.524 --> 03:31:29.086 - affordable housing both in terms of rental and potential buyers and single-family residential buyers and 03:31:29.282 --> 03:31:37.477 - also preserving Our history character a little bit of what's left of this town And Lastly I want to 03:31:37.477 --> 03:31:45.918 - do want to say I don't blame The investment property owners at all for wanting to preserve the ability 03:31:45.918 --> 03:31:54.686 - to do what they want how they want when they want it I Would probably likely do the same thing or advocate 03:31:54.686 --> 03:31:58.046 - for the same thing if if that was my job 03:31:59.042 --> 03:32:08.358 - That's not my job. My job as a council member is to weigh the overall pros and cons and balances for 03:32:08.358 --> 03:32:17.859 - this benefits to the city to our community and make a decision and In this case, it's clear to me that 03:32:17.859 --> 03:32:23.486 - voting to support this is achieves that balance and achieves 03:32:23.970 --> 03:32:30.755 - My responsibility and my goal as a as a representative of the community of Bloomington So I'm gonna 03:32:30.755 --> 03:32:38.014 - be happy to support this. Thank you. Thank you so much councilmember Piedmont Smith and then councilmember 03:32:38.014 --> 03:32:44.799 - Stossberg Yeah, I am very pleased to support this tonight and just walking through the neighborhood 03:32:44.799 --> 03:32:52.126 - it It did remind me of my own childhood growing up in Bloomington not in such historic district, but just I 03:32:52.578 --> 03:33:01.719 - Having the variety of houses, the variety of residents, the cool different architecture from different 03:33:01.719 --> 03:33:11.304 - eras. And I see in my district, as some of my constituents have said, that a lot of these older, especially 03:33:11.304 --> 03:33:20.445 - the small homes, are being torn down and replaced by things that are not as affordable as the rent was 03:33:20.445 --> 03:33:22.398 - on the original home. 03:33:22.626 --> 03:33:32.260 - changing the streetscape and not for the better. And it's sad to see. So I'm pleased that the Butler's 03:33:32.260 --> 03:33:41.333 - did all this work and all this outreach to involve a lot of people in this and get the word out. 03:33:41.333 --> 03:33:50.780 - And really, we've received more positive comments than negative, especially from people who actually 03:33:50.780 --> 03:33:51.902 - live there. 03:33:52.130 --> 03:33:59.173 - So the only the only thing that that does bother me a little and has always bothered me about historic 03:33:59.173 --> 03:34:06.284 - districts is that it's such a small group of people in the end who write the guidelines who can dictate 03:34:06.284 --> 03:34:13.464 - what all the property owners in the district can do with their houses. So we really should do everything 03:34:13.464 --> 03:34:21.054 - we can to try to involve as many people as we can when those guidelines are written so everybody knows and can 03:34:21.186 --> 03:34:30.107 - bring forward their concerns and those can be discussed in a democratic way can lead to guidelines that 03:34:30.107 --> 03:34:38.771 - people can agree to and live with. But I'm really excited that this is coming forward for protection 03:34:38.771 --> 03:34:47.006 - and I'm sure I will enjoy more walks through that area in the future. Thank you. Hi, thank you. 03:34:47.810 --> 03:34:54.054 - I've had a lot of conflict about this petition. I think a lot of you probably know that I generally 03:34:54.054 --> 03:34:59.861 - have a lot of concerns with historic preservation petitions. And some of that has to do with 03:34:59.861 --> 03:35:06.231 - what Councilmember Piedmont-Smith just said about a small number of people who write the regulations, 03:35:06.231 --> 03:35:12.787 - like the ultimate guidelines, has to do with the state's rules about how it switches from a conservation 03:35:12.787 --> 03:35:14.910 - district to an historic district. 03:35:15.362 --> 03:35:23.519 - pretty much automatically just because the bar is so high to get over to keep it a conservation district. 03:35:23.519 --> 03:35:31.215 - And then I think you have to continue to make motions to keep it a conservation district as opposed 03:35:31.215 --> 03:35:38.526 - to it rolling over. And so that's not something that can be changed, but that's just one of my 03:35:38.946 --> 03:35:46.590 - My general concerns with petitions like this and similarly I have witnessed myself some of the ways 03:35:46.590 --> 03:35:54.692 - that various petitioners have been treated by the HPC when they have come to them wanting to do something 03:35:54.692 --> 03:36:02.413 - to one of their historic buildings and the increased costs associated with that. I do not think that 03:36:02.413 --> 03:36:08.222 - it is affordable to make something historic district. It is not affordable. 03:36:08.322 --> 03:36:15.389 - And where this location is right now, I mean these are not affordable houses like just FYI These are 03:36:15.389 --> 03:36:22.807 - not affordable houses. They are too close to campus to be affordable Okay, like the land value underneath 03:36:22.807 --> 03:36:30.294 - them. I mean it just kind of dictates like that So that that is my general like concern with with historic 03:36:30.294 --> 03:36:35.262 - districts this petition is really interesting though to me because I I 03:36:35.554 --> 03:36:43.183 - I this neighborhood has a lot of what I would consider really well constructed old buildings old houses 03:36:43.183 --> 03:36:50.738 - like if we want to think about historic integrity and And the variety I really appreciated the variety 03:36:50.738 --> 03:36:58.219 - when I was there one of the commoners against the petition kind of derided the variety but I actually 03:36:58.219 --> 03:37:03.134 - think that that's a benefit to the whole district and a lot of the 03:37:03.490 --> 03:37:11.511 - Houses are very well maintained. There are not very many that I automatically look at and go, ooh, 03:37:11.511 --> 03:37:19.774 - that one. Something that uses the space a lot better could or should go there. It's relatively dense, 03:37:19.774 --> 03:37:27.876 - and even within the lots, there are relatively small lots and small houses, but the houses that are 03:37:27.876 --> 03:37:29.982 - on the lots, they take up 03:37:30.082 --> 03:37:37.180 - enough of the lot so it's not like there's hardly any house on this huge lot in the way that some of 03:37:37.180 --> 03:37:44.488 - other areas are. And I think that the houses there generally have been constructed really well. So this 03:37:44.488 --> 03:37:50.110 - is part of the reason why I've had such conflict is that I don't generally like 03:37:50.338 --> 03:37:56.286 - And I don't generally like the process. I think that there's some real problems down the road but this 03:37:56.286 --> 03:38:02.119 - is a neighborhood that I do think should should be Preserved as it is because even though I say, you 03:38:02.119 --> 03:38:08.067 - know making it a sort district like it's it's not going to be affordable But if you kind of think like 03:38:08.067 --> 03:38:13.438 - leaving it as it is, you know, it might stay like this historic district adds some amount of 03:38:13.986 --> 03:38:21.030 - Money right like it makes it less affordable But it absolutely makes it a whole lot less affordable 03:38:21.030 --> 03:38:28.355 - to tear down these houses and then put in you know a quadplex or Actually, they're really duplexes with 03:38:28.355 --> 03:38:35.469 - five bedrooms on each side. Like those are even less affordable New construction is less affordable. 03:38:35.469 --> 03:38:42.583 - So it's this like we're not really preserving affordability here, but we also maybe making something 03:38:42.583 --> 03:38:43.710 - more affordable 03:38:43.874 --> 03:38:53.003 - than another option might be. So this is my conflict. And I'm gonna wait until it's my turn to vote 03:38:53.003 --> 03:39:02.315 - to figure out where I stand in the end of that conflict. But I think either way, I will be looking at 03:39:02.315 --> 03:39:12.174 - code over the next year and figuring out ways to change code in order to figure out a logistically possible 03:39:12.174 --> 03:39:13.726 - way to make sure 03:39:13.922 --> 03:39:24.478 - that there is buy-in from Hopefully in my mind a majority of property owners within our historic districts 03:39:24.478 --> 03:39:25.662 - to agree to 03:39:25.858 --> 03:39:31.501 - whatever rules there are in the end, because honestly, it's those rules, like how onerous is it in front 03:39:31.501 --> 03:39:36.929 - of the HPC? It all depends on those rules. And then similarly, I think that I really appreciate that 03:39:36.929 --> 03:39:42.518 - there's some rewriting of rules going on, and I think that there should be requirements about frequency 03:39:42.518 --> 03:39:48.053 - of having to address and potentially rewrite those rules. And so I will be pursuing that no matter how 03:39:48.053 --> 03:39:52.030 - I vote tonight. Thanks. Thank you. Would you like your extra two minutes? 03:39:52.482 --> 03:40:01.784 - Okay. All right. Any other comments? Councilman Rosenberger? Hi, thanks. I'm going to bop around like 03:40:01.784 --> 03:40:11.177 - normal. First, a little romance. I graduated from college in 2005 and my first college boyfriend lived 03:40:11.177 --> 03:40:15.646 - in a sixplex in this neighborhood and I lived in 03:40:15.906 --> 03:40:25.056 - a four or fiveplex at 10th and Grant. So I paid $450 a month. I paid for my own college outside of any 03:40:25.056 --> 03:40:34.206 - scholarships I got. But I couldn't afford anything fancy either. So the multifamily that I got to live 03:40:34.206 --> 03:40:43.444 - in, I very much appreciate that I got to graduate college without undergrad, without student loan debt. 03:40:43.444 --> 03:40:45.310 - OK, high level here. 03:40:45.794 --> 03:40:51.653 - I'm going to talk about more than high level but I am not supporting this until the state of Indiana 03:40:51.653 --> 03:40:57.685 - changes the way it works with historic districts and conservation districts. I don't like that. There's 03:40:57.685 --> 03:41:03.660 - not one conservation district that is known to have survived as a conservation district and everything 03:41:03.660 --> 03:41:07.198 - is forced into a historic district. I live in Prospect Hill. 03:41:07.810 --> 03:41:14.801 - and bought my home before it was a conservation district, and then now it is, of course, a historic 03:41:14.801 --> 03:41:21.932 - district, and I have gone through my own ups and downs with trying to change some, or not change some 03:41:21.932 --> 03:41:28.923 - things, but renovate some things on my house that were rotting, and then I wasn't allowed to change 03:41:28.923 --> 03:41:33.118 - because of the historic preservation committee, commission. 03:41:33.378 --> 03:41:40.693 - So that can be hard. Okay. I love sitting next to someone who we mostly agree on everything but in this 03:41:40.693 --> 03:41:48.149 - case we very much disagree and I think that's so cute. I haven't really read a lot that says preservation 03:41:48.149 --> 03:41:51.806 - equals affordability and a very big thing for me is 03:41:52.098 --> 03:41:59.209 - Affordable housing and Bloomington and for me it is econ 101 the more supply we have the more Competition 03:41:59.209 --> 03:42:06.254 - we have the more we can stop prices from rising as fast as they are I think prices will always be rising 03:42:06.254 --> 03:42:13.164 - for renting and for owning I know there's a lot of tension between Preserving I like to say preserving 03:42:13.164 --> 03:42:15.646 - not protecting also preserving great 03:42:15.778 --> 03:42:24.106 - Buildings versus not freezing neighborhoods in place. I I just read an article about this today preparing 03:42:24.106 --> 03:42:32.433 - for this that said More and more historic districts are being created despite there being fewer districts 03:42:32.433 --> 03:42:36.990 - that like really qualify across the US Some quick numbers 03:42:38.722 --> 03:42:45.761 - Historic preservation, increased renovation costs, increased maintenance costs, increases red tape and 03:42:45.761 --> 03:42:52.731 - process, increases unpredictability and what can get done, increases utility costs, because mostly we 03:42:52.731 --> 03:42:59.633 - are dealing with homes that leak air at an absurd degree. This all increases rents. It increases the 03:42:59.633 --> 03:43:02.366 - shortage of homes. I understand we have 03:43:02.594 --> 03:43:08.753 - We have small homes in this neighborhood and we have again my ex-boyfriends sixplex and the rents in 03:43:08.753 --> 03:43:15.277 - them are the same. They're nine hundred dollars a bedroom for a two bedroom house nine hundred per bedroom 03:43:15.277 --> 03:43:21.374 - or a bedroom in a sixplex nine hundred dollars. What happens when you have a shortage of housing as 03:43:21.374 --> 03:43:27.716 - we push out low income residents. I know we all already know that this neighborhood like council member 03:43:27.716 --> 03:43:32.350 - Stossberg said is already unaffordable. So that's not changing whether it's 03:43:32.514 --> 03:43:40.926 - Preserved or not preserved it is It's similar to prospect hill prices. I was looking at homes recently 03:43:40.926 --> 03:43:49.174 - sold. I just looked at a prospect hill home Going on the market for 320 grand and had rotting joists 03:43:49.174 --> 03:43:57.504 - that would require crawlspace work for another 20 grand So it's a two bedroom one baths in a historic 03:43:57.504 --> 03:44:01.342 - district That really isn't livable right now I 03:44:05.282 --> 03:44:11.924 - I think that's about it. I'd love to hear Elm Heights is redoing their historic standards. They are 03:44:11.924 --> 03:44:18.566 - the they are known as the neighborhood with the strictest rules and they're also the most expensive 03:44:18.566 --> 03:44:25.407 - neighborhood in the city. And I think that is probably related. OK. That's all for me. I do appreciate 03:44:25.407 --> 03:44:32.381 - everyone and everyone willing to show us around. But I pretty much usually have the same answer on that. 03:44:32.381 --> 03:44:34.174 - Thanks so much. Thank you. 03:44:34.306 --> 03:44:41.535 - Councilmember Ruff, you wanna follow through on your two minute threat there? Well, I wasn't going to, 03:44:41.535 --> 03:44:48.624 - but I get to tell my little story. It's not a romance story, but it's a bit of a romanticized story. 03:44:48.624 --> 03:44:55.853 - So I know I look much more vital and vigorous than 64 years old, which I'll be this summer. But if you 03:44:55.853 --> 03:44:58.590 - can imagine little Andy on a stingray, 03:45:00.162 --> 03:45:09.819 - for biking from the north side, where I grew up, down Indiana, under the railroad track, crossing there, 03:45:09.819 --> 03:45:19.109 - and along till 10th Street, and then cutting in to school at McCullough, where I went for six years, 03:45:19.109 --> 03:45:28.766 - from 1968 to, would have been, I guess, 73 or 74, when then they closed the school. But that whole trip, 03:45:30.050 --> 03:45:39.043 - Lot had a residence or a business all building forward including 10th Street between Indiana and done 03:45:39.043 --> 03:45:47.948 - Right across on the playground. What was the playground at McCullough all building forward a grocery 03:45:47.948 --> 03:45:57.118 - store Jerry's with the Jerry who lived above it and Hinkle's hamburgers a little farther down 10th, but 03:45:58.434 --> 03:46:09.936 - it's much less dense now than it was then and Largely because of speculative development efforts So 03:46:09.936 --> 03:46:21.669 - if freezing it in time, it's someone my council colleagues mentioned used that term Means maintaining 03:46:21.669 --> 03:46:26.270 - what was a more dense more diverse more 03:46:26.402 --> 03:46:33.710 - Community neighborhood centric or with stores restaurant grocery then so be it call it freezing it in 03:46:33.710 --> 03:46:41.090 - time It's what we need more of in this community right now the way it's been going so thank you that's 03:46:41.090 --> 03:46:48.254 - only two minutes Thank you so much Councilmember Stasburg, I'm so sorry. I just want to address one 03:46:48.254 --> 03:46:54.846 - other thing to you because some commenters and I think I got a couple emails mentioning the 03:46:54.946 --> 03:47:01.505 - that they have this preference for marking things one at a time for historic preservation instead of 03:47:01.505 --> 03:47:08.000 - whole districts. And I guess I wanna address that because I disagree with that. I think it would be 03:47:08.000 --> 03:47:14.559 - an administrative nightmare to just do one house at a time spotty all over the place would just be a 03:47:14.559 --> 03:47:21.313 - disaster. I just wanted to make sure to say that because that was something that had come up in comment 03:47:21.313 --> 03:47:23.326 - and some emails I got, thanks. 03:47:23.778 --> 03:47:38.280 - Thank you all so much. All right. Will the court please call the roll. Council member sorry. Yes. Daily. 03:47:38.280 --> 03:47:51.678 - Yes. Rallo. Yes. Yes. Rosenberger. No. Flaherty Stasburg. Yes. Piedmont Smith. Yes. So like yes. 03:47:52.834 --> 03:48:05.349 - That motion carries 7-1. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Are there any more motions? Oh, yes. 03:48:05.349 --> 03:48:18.118 - There are. Okay, so I move to consider ordinance 2026-08, ordinance 2026-09, ordinance 2026-10, and 03:48:18.118 --> 03:48:21.694 - ordinance 2026-11 together. 03:48:23.010 --> 03:48:30.737 - second Thank you. There's a motion and a second the for clarity The motion is to the motion is to consider 03:48:30.737 --> 03:48:38.247 - all of these at the same time It was councilmember Stossberg All right, all those in favor say aye Yes, 03:48:38.247 --> 03:48:45.612 - but there's a point of information I had my computer closed because it's dying. Those are all the ud. 03:48:45.612 --> 03:48:51.678 - Oh ones, right? Correct. Great. Thanks. Yes All those in favor say aye Any opposed? 03:48:52.386 --> 03:49:02.249 - That motion carries 7-0. So we are now considering, will Mr. Gruelich? Do we need to still have the 03:49:02.249 --> 03:49:12.211 - clerk read them in? I don't believe that we have to have a synopsis. We already read these for first 03:49:12.211 --> 03:49:19.806 - reading, so I don't believe we have to have a synopsis read. Attorney Allen? 03:49:21.890 --> 03:49:28.735 - I don't think you need to read the synopsis again, but if you'd like to have it, somebody can make a 03:49:28.735 --> 03:49:35.512 - motion to have it read. We will adopt. We will move to adopt before we vote. We're going to vote on 03:49:35.512 --> 03:49:42.425 - each one individually. OK. Yeah. So we can do one presentation, then we can adopt individually or not 03:49:42.425 --> 03:49:49.406 - accept individually. So Mr. Gulick, you can present on all of the above. So as quickly as you want to. 03:49:51.298 --> 03:50:00.716 - So we are here tonight to present our annual UDO amendments. So as usual, these kind of run the gamut 03:50:00.716 --> 03:50:10.134 - from minor technicality changes, proofreading errors, spelling errors, to adjusting language based on 03:50:10.134 --> 03:50:12.350 - certain interpretations 03:50:12.482 --> 03:50:19.072 - Misunderstandings or not clarity in terms of how certain things are administered So there are a few 03:50:19.072 --> 03:50:25.794 - things within these amendments that I think I will kind of point out that I don't want to say our big 03:50:25.794 --> 03:50:31.989 - things but kind of are a little bit larger on the scale that vary from just adding a footnote 03:50:31.989 --> 03:50:37.854 - or a misspelling to kind of changes in terms of Language within the udl. So we have four 03:50:37.954 --> 03:50:43.896 - Ordinances that are coming for you tonight one of those encompass technical amendments. So those are 03:50:43.896 --> 03:50:50.014 - just kind of housekeeping things Nothing really substantial in in those particular series of amendments 03:50:50.114 --> 03:50:58.999 - The next ordinance comes for chapter 4 which addresses development standards So one of the things that 03:50:58.999 --> 03:51:07.626 - I wanted to point out that is a big thing that is happening in that particular ordinance section is 03:51:07.626 --> 03:51:15.390 - a change to or removal of a process for determining sidewalks or more specifically relief 03:51:15.490 --> 03:51:21.758 - from installing sidewalks. There is a determinate sidewalk variance process in the UDO right now. 03:51:21.858 --> 03:51:28.829 - That was introduced in 2017 When we went through some of the modifications to the language within the 03:51:28.829 --> 03:51:35.799 - udio we incorporated a new Process that allowed for a determinant sidewalk variance to be approved So 03:51:35.799 --> 03:51:42.975 - a determinant sidewalk variance means you are granted temporary relief from having to install a sidewalk 03:51:42.975 --> 03:51:48.510 - but there is a zoning commitment that is recorded that can allow for the city to 03:51:48.642 --> 03:51:56.505 - Call in that sidewalk requirement at some point in the future that some point in the future could be 03:51:56.505 --> 03:52:04.446 - weeks months years decades. So those have are can be somewhat troublesome to track, but even more so. 03:52:04.642 --> 03:52:11.365 - Troublesome to to try to enforce or bring forward You know several years down the line when you're dealing 03:52:11.365 --> 03:52:18.150 - with a completely different property owner, you know who had no idea or You know certainly the implications 03:52:18.150 --> 03:52:24.433 - of saying you've got to build a sidewalk and spend several thousand dollars Can be very imposing on 03:52:24.433 --> 03:52:27.198 - that particular new property owner so we we 03:52:27.458 --> 03:52:33.731 - Here, determinate sidewalk variances occasionally, maybe a few of these a year. So they get recorded 03:52:33.731 --> 03:52:39.570 - on a property, but they don't really result in anything really being installed on a property, 03:52:39.570 --> 03:52:45.781 - and like I said, can be very challenging down the line for us to try to track those, and then even, 03:52:45.781 --> 03:52:52.179 - like I said, more specifically to call them in. So several communities within the state and around the 03:52:52.179 --> 03:52:54.974 - country have a process for a payment in lieu 03:52:55.138 --> 03:53:02.226 - Fund where instead of granting a variance a petitioner makes a contribution Somewhat proportional to 03:53:02.226 --> 03:53:09.314 - the cost of that sidewalk into a dedicated fund that that fund is then used to fund other pedestrian 03:53:09.314 --> 03:53:16.332 - facility improvements within that community So we are proposing to remove that determinant sidewalk 03:53:16.332 --> 03:53:20.894 - variance process and allow for instead a payment in lieu to be a 03:53:21.154 --> 03:53:27.899 - Made so this would go to the alternative transportation fund which is administered by the council So 03:53:27.899 --> 03:53:34.711 - this contribution would then be used subject to council's discretion as part of the fund distribution 03:53:34.711 --> 03:53:41.590 - for other pedestrian improvements throughout the community so this is kind of a big change and we feel 03:53:41.590 --> 03:53:48.669 - like it certainly results in a better benefit to the community as a result in a real concrete improvement 03:53:48.669 --> 03:53:51.006 - within the community rather than a 03:53:51.682 --> 03:53:57.853 - Piece of paper that is recorded that that doesn't result in anything So we did see this as a benefit 03:53:57.853 --> 03:54:04.086 - and like I said, there are many communities within the state that incorporate this so we do feel like 03:54:04.086 --> 03:54:10.318 - this is a Positive thing but is a big thing. So I certainly wanted to make sure to point that out the 03:54:10.318 --> 03:54:16.489 - rest of the amendments in chapter 4 another one that is somewhat substantial is a change in terms of 03:54:16.489 --> 03:54:20.094 - how landscaping is calculated or done for parking lots and 03:54:20.354 --> 03:54:27.856 - The current regulations deal with a certain amount of trees and shrubs per the raw number of parking 03:54:27.856 --> 03:54:35.357 - spaces in a lot over time we have found that that Can be can result in very large quantity of shrubs 03:54:35.357 --> 03:54:43.007 - and trees that is just simply not practical To get on a particular property and so we are shifting how 03:54:43.007 --> 03:54:49.246 - that is calculated and following the model that the county uses which just looks at 03:54:49.410 --> 03:54:55.804 - parking lot landscaping for the perimeter. So it's not based on just a raw number of spaces within a 03:54:55.804 --> 03:55:02.514 - property itself, but is more tailored to what was the goal of parking lot landscaping, which is to buffer 03:55:02.514 --> 03:55:09.225 - the perimeter, the view of these parking spaces from the perimeter. But then there is another requirement 03:55:09.225 --> 03:55:13.150 - that deals with landscaping within that parking area as well. 03:55:13.346 --> 03:55:20.572 - So it's just an adjustment in terms of how landscaping is done for parking lots to more closely align 03:55:20.572 --> 03:55:27.655 - that with reality and what is practical And so there is an adjustment made for that The next series 03:55:27.655 --> 03:55:34.881 - of amendments deal with amendments in chapter 6. So this is for administration and procedures section 03:55:34.881 --> 03:55:37.502 - There's nothing in here that I would 03:55:37.762 --> 03:55:44.887 - Classify is really kind of major again. These are just kind of some housekeeping sections This deals 03:55:44.887 --> 03:55:52.224 - with actually removal of the determinant sidewalk variance from a process Which just kind of goes along 03:55:52.224 --> 03:55:59.490 - with the language that I mentioned for chapter 4 And then the last series of amendments is for chapter 03:55:59.490 --> 03:56:06.686 - 2 3 5 and 7 so that deals with zoning districts use regulations subdivision standards and definitions 03:56:06.914 --> 03:56:15.424 - Within this section, the one thing that I would say is probably the most noteworthy would be the removal 03:56:15.424 --> 03:56:24.014 - of the standardized business ordinance language. So if some of the council may remember, the standardized 03:56:24.014 --> 03:56:32.199 - business language was introduced probably 15 years ago, something like that, and was implemented as, 03:56:32.199 --> 03:56:35.198 - it was intended to serve as a way to 03:56:35.330 --> 03:56:41.374 - prohibit standardized businesses from moving into a location. However, as we went through the legal 03:56:41.374 --> 03:56:47.902 - challenges in terms of what we could actually regulate, you know, we can't say no to a particular business. 03:56:47.902 --> 03:56:53.342 - We can't regulate what it looks like on the outside for signage. So the language that got 03:56:53.538 --> 03:56:59.926 - folded into the UDO really got diluted from what was the intention of saying no to a business to regulating 03:56:59.926 --> 03:57:06.136 - just what exterior signage looks like. And so the language that's in the UDO in relation to standardized 03:57:06.136 --> 03:57:12.346 - business talks about making sure it's compatible with other signage or buildings along a corridor, which 03:57:12.346 --> 03:57:18.142 - again, as we've gone through several, several years of trying to administer, is very challenging. 03:57:18.338 --> 03:57:26.091 - To try to come up with some sort of a cohesive unified sign Appearance along a quarter because there's 03:57:26.091 --> 03:57:33.843 - so much and so it really just became very difficult to administer Wasn't really accomplishing what the 03:57:33.843 --> 03:57:41.822 - goal was intended to when it was built into the code And so we are proposing to take that out so those is 03:57:41.922 --> 03:57:51.858 - Those are kind of I would say that the brief overview obviously. I'm happy to go into specifics on any 03:57:51.858 --> 03:58:01.504 - of the Other items that maybe I didn't go into a detail. Thank you so much councilmember Ella Yeah, 03:58:01.504 --> 03:58:07.774 - I had a question about the parking lot trees so when you used of 03:58:07.906 --> 03:58:15.242 - Having trees in a parking lot is to reduce the island effect. And so by relegating them to the perimeter 03:58:15.242 --> 03:58:20.062 - You don't enjoy that effect. Is that our is that problematic for us? 03:58:20.386 --> 03:58:27.409 - Yeah, so so the as I mentioned there is still a requirement for landscaping within the interior and 03:58:27.409 --> 03:58:34.573 - it's just kind of shifted how that is calculated from a wrong number just based on how many spaces to 03:58:34.573 --> 03:58:41.667 - a percentage requirement within that interior so it requires a certain amount of green space and the 03:58:41.667 --> 03:58:43.774 - number of parking spaces then 03:58:43.970 --> 03:58:50.039 - Dictates, you know a certain percentage of that interior that has to be green space has to have a certain 03:58:50.039 --> 03:58:55.937 - amount of trees for every island You know, you have to have a island for every nine parking spaces So, 03:58:55.937 --> 03:59:01.376 - you know, I would say in reality you really accomplish the same amount of landscaping We still 03:59:01.376 --> 03:59:07.159 - get landscaping and trees within parking lots. So it certainly addresses the heat island effect that 03:59:07.159 --> 03:59:09.278 - we're concerned with it just adjusts 03:59:09.442 --> 03:59:15.313 - Number of shrubs and trees that were previously required that like I said, we're almost practically 03:59:15.313 --> 03:59:21.478 - impossible to accomplish And so we found time and time again variances were being granted from the Board 03:59:21.478 --> 03:59:27.408 - of Zoning Appeals just to Acknowledge that you know just was not possible to plant 900 shrubs or you 03:59:27.408 --> 03:59:33.337 - know Whatever the number might have been in some situations where you had large parking lots So it's 03:59:33.337 --> 03:59:39.326 - just a recalibration of how that's done. And like I said, it's reflective of what the county does and 03:59:39.970 --> 03:59:48.412 - So it makes it easier for developers, you know, they don't have to adjust to two different Requirements 03:59:48.412 --> 03:59:56.935 - for that. So it kind of expedites review as it makes it easier for developers to know what the standards 03:59:56.935 --> 04:00:02.942 - are Thank you The amount for the payment in lieu of sidewalk calculated I 04:00:03.618 --> 04:00:10.423 - Yep, so once a year the Plain Commission would set a rate For what that number would be so there are 04:00:10.423 --> 04:00:17.632 - certainly a variety of standards that we could use You know some of those could be a common cost estimator 04:00:17.632 --> 04:00:24.707 - that in not uses You know could be just a raw concrete amount. It could be a factor of something between 04:00:24.707 --> 04:00:26.526 - the amount of concrete and 04:00:26.722 --> 04:00:33.349 - labor and installation costs So that's something that I said that the Planning Commission will arrive 04:00:33.349 --> 04:00:39.846 - at at the beginning of every year and set that number You know, certainly we want it to be Somewhat 04:00:39.846 --> 04:00:46.344 - realistic in terms of what a material cost would be without at the same time being cost prohibitive 04:00:46.344 --> 04:00:52.126 - that You know, it's just too much that it wouldn't be practical for an individual to pay 04:00:53.282 --> 04:00:59.606 - Okay, and that, just to be clear, because this is kind of a policy departure, if somebody chooses the 04:00:59.606 --> 04:01:05.868 - payment in lieu, there's no guarantee that that's gonna be used for a sidewalk anywhere near them in 04:01:05.868 --> 04:01:12.130 - the future, right? It just goes into a big pot of money for the alternative transportation fund, and 04:01:12.130 --> 04:01:18.330 - it gets used for something. Yeah, again, so it'd be used somewhere within the community, and like I 04:01:18.330 --> 04:01:23.166 - said, well, I guess I didn't say this, we do maybe a handful of these a year. 04:01:23.394 --> 04:01:29.219 - You know, so we're talking about maybe four five or three or something like that So it's not a significant 04:01:29.219 --> 04:01:34.718 - amount that in and of itself that one contribution is going to result in a sidewalk along You know a 04:01:34.718 --> 04:01:40.489 - particular road frontage, you know, it's just you know here is here is the current process of determinant 04:01:40.489 --> 04:01:46.043 - sidewalk variances Which you know in reality accomplishes nothing, you know, it's something that sits 04:01:46.043 --> 04:01:50.398 - on paper and it just kind of gets sitting in a corner and here's something that 04:01:50.626 --> 04:01:57.441 - a real benefit within the community somewhere, you know, certainly the council can look at, you know, 04:01:57.441 --> 04:02:04.257 - where those contributions may have come from and use that as a factor as you look to proportion where 04:02:04.257 --> 04:02:11.273 - that money gets spent. But we don't expect it to be, you know, a substantial amount based on the limited 04:02:11.273 --> 04:02:17.955 - number of cases that we see. Yeah, no, I mean, it may be the same follow-up question that I'm about 04:02:17.955 --> 04:02:19.358 - to ask, so go ahead. 04:02:19.842 --> 04:02:27.640 - And then also, okay, so we have two follow-up questions on the payment in lieu. I was curious about, 04:02:27.640 --> 04:02:35.361 - so you talk about the sort of process by which or the considerations, right, of topography or other 04:02:35.361 --> 04:02:38.526 - things like that, but more specifically, 04:02:38.850 --> 04:02:44.653 - I was a little unclear on who makes the final call So the the Transportation Commission would be the 04:02:44.653 --> 04:02:50.570 - board that would hear that so because you know, we felt like because you know a request to not install 04:02:50.570 --> 04:02:56.545 - a sidewalk is is kind of a large deviation from the scene of the UTO that that is something that should 04:02:56.545 --> 04:03:02.635 - be Publicly vetted and so the Transportation Commission would be the board that would be approving those. 04:03:02.635 --> 04:03:07.806 - Okay past the comes we're starting them back to councilmember Pema Smith just in terms of 04:03:08.514 --> 04:03:14.162 - Did I hear you understand so the payment in the money would go into the alternative transportation fund. 04:03:14.162 --> 04:03:19.971 - Is that a non-reverting fund? Do you I believe it is is a non-reverting I am not a hundred percent positive 04:03:19.971 --> 04:03:25.403 - Okay, I guess I just want to make sure that we do a little bit of research in that to make sure that 04:03:25.403 --> 04:03:30.890 - it That that money goes into a non-reverting fund in the same way that payment in lieu for affordable 04:03:30.890 --> 04:03:36.268 - housing Goes into the housing development funds so that then that money doesn't end up getting lost 04:03:36.268 --> 04:03:38.366 - or reallocated if it doesn't get spent 04:03:39.298 --> 04:03:47.190 - In short, yeah within a year or something. So confirm that or not, but I don't believe it reverts. Yeah, 04:03:47.190 --> 04:03:55.008 - thank you Back to you. Sorry So the payment in lieu goes into the alternative transportation fund which 04:03:55.008 --> 04:04:02.750 - is used by Two or three different departments, but I think somewhere in your memo you implied it would 04:04:02.750 --> 04:04:09.214 - actually go into the pot of money that the Common Council Pedestrian Safety Committee 04:04:09.346 --> 04:04:15.696 - Uses Allocates. Yes, right. Yes As I yes, I understand that is the same that is the alternative 04:04:15.696 --> 04:04:22.376 - transportation fund. Yes, right But the the Common Council only has control over a certain amount of 04:04:22.376 --> 04:04:29.123 - money in that fund So I guess yeah, I don't know what I don't know what your limit is for how much of 04:04:29.123 --> 04:04:35.737 - that you can disperse So it may or may not come down to us I mean it it'll just go in that fund and 04:04:35.737 --> 04:04:38.846 - whatever portion of that fund we're allowed to 04:04:39.138 --> 04:04:45.962 - allocate that's the amount we're allowed to allocate yes and like I said I mean let's let's pretend 04:04:45.962 --> 04:04:52.922 - you know we we looked at a few realistic scenarios you know a common property that might be a hundred 04:04:52.922 --> 04:04:58.654 - feet long you know that are and needed to do a five you know six foot wide sidewalk 04:04:58.978 --> 04:05:05.432 - Might be looking at a contribution of four to five thousand dollars something like that might be a little 04:05:05.432 --> 04:05:12.068 - bit more So let's pretend, you know that there were like three of those a year you looking at a contribution 04:05:12.068 --> 04:05:18.156 - of maybe fifteen to twenty thousand So I don't I don't know proportional wise what's in that budget 04:05:18.156 --> 04:05:24.244 - amount item now, but Five hundred thousand dollars. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, that would be a very small 04:05:24.244 --> 04:05:26.558 - percentage I guess of of that Okay, I 04:05:26.850 --> 04:05:33.631 - I think I kind of answered it for myself that it would not be like we get an additional five thousand 04:05:33.631 --> 04:05:40.479 - dollars to play with. No we get whatever we allocate the budget. OK. Thank you. I had another question 04:05:40.479 --> 04:05:47.193 - that because when we've looked at payments in lieu as relates to housing developments we've run into 04:05:47.193 --> 04:05:53.841 - some sort of adverse incentives and like the costing which I think why you know that first question 04:05:53.841 --> 04:05:55.038 - was so important. 04:05:55.298 --> 04:06:06.185 - what mechanisms, or have we considered any mechanisms to think about ensuring that this doesn't create 04:06:06.185 --> 04:06:17.496 - an incentive for private developers, for example, to skirt building infrastructure? Is there a possibility 04:06:17.496 --> 04:06:23.838 - with the payment and lose structure for sidewalks to allow, 04:06:23.970 --> 04:06:29.267 - Maybe too hypothetical but like to allow a developer to skirt the needs like to just say actually I'm 04:06:29.267 --> 04:06:34.513 - not gonna build that here's a payment in lieu it right like so that's where the transportation would 04:06:34.513 --> 04:06:39.862 - Commission would evaluate that request kind of based on those same kind of same set of criteria as you 04:06:39.862 --> 04:06:45.211 - know You know, what is what is the pattern along the street? Is there likely to be other developments? 04:06:45.211 --> 04:06:50.508 - Are there unique constraints that prevent it? You know, so those are the the review criteria that are 04:06:50.508 --> 04:06:53.936 - in there are what they would use to evaluate that so if they find 04:06:53.936 --> 04:07:00.639 - That it didn't met that then they would say no you have to put it in. It's a fantastic. Thank you any 04:07:00.639 --> 04:07:07.540 - other questions Or comments All right, I'll move to a time of public comment. Thank you so much We might 04:07:07.540 --> 04:07:14.112 - have some things in a second. Is there anybody in chamber that would like to comment on? any of the 04:07:14.112 --> 04:07:20.158 - ordinances ordinance twenty twenty six or eight twenty twenty six or nine ten or eleven and 04:07:23.010 --> 04:07:29.670 - Is there anyone online? Tremendous. We'll come back to council council members any comments or further 04:07:29.670 --> 04:07:36.136 - questions? All right, seeing none, oh, please come to miss us I'll just comment real fast and thank 04:07:36.136 --> 04:07:42.602 - the plank mission and the planning department for the technical corrections I mean the UDO is a big 04:07:42.602 --> 04:07:44.542 - document and every year we've 04:07:44.706 --> 04:07:52.222 - find something in it that Needs some sort of fix and it takes a lot of detail work to do that and I 04:07:52.222 --> 04:07:59.889 - appreciate that work from staff. Thank you I Move to adopt ordinance 2020 608 Second there's a motion 04:07:59.889 --> 04:08:07.556 - to second all those in favor. Oh, no, there's motion to second. So any discussion All right, and will 04:08:07.556 --> 04:08:09.886 - the clerk please call the roll 04:08:13.986 --> 04:08:25.705 - Councilmember Daley Yes, Rallo Yes, Ruff. Yes Rosenberger. Yes clarity Stasburg. Yes Piedmont Smith. 04:08:25.705 --> 04:08:37.308 - Yes Zulek Sorry, yes that motion carries seven zero I Move to adopt ordinance twenty twenty six. Oh 04:08:37.308 --> 04:08:43.806 - nine Second there's a motion in a second any discussion 04:08:44.642 --> 04:08:57.499 - The clerk, please call the roll Councilmember Rallo. Yes rough. Yes Rosenberger. Yes clarity Stasburg. 04:08:57.499 --> 04:09:11.230 - Yes Piedmont Smith Yes, so like a sorry. Yes daily Yes, that motion carries seven zero any further motions. I 04:09:11.394 --> 04:09:24.034 - I move to adopt ordinance 2026-10. Second. There's a motion and a second. Any discussion? Will the clerk 04:09:24.034 --> 04:09:36.553 - please call the roll? Ruff? Yes. Rosenberger? Yes. Flaherty? Stasberg? Yes. Piedmont-Smith? Yes. Zulek? 04:09:36.553 --> 04:09:40.766 - Asari? Yes. Daly? Yes. Rallo? Yes. 04:09:41.058 --> 04:09:51.064 - That motion carries seven zero. Are there any more motions? I moved to adopt ordinance 2026 dash 11 04:09:51.064 --> 04:10:01.070 - second motion and a second. Any discussion? Well, the clerk please call the roll. Rosenberger. Yes. 04:10:01.070 --> 04:10:07.774 - Flaherty Stasper. Yes. Piedmont Smith. Yes. Zulek. I'm sorry. Yes. 04:10:10.114 --> 04:10:17.048 - Yes. Rallo? Yes. Raff? Yes. That motion carries seven, zero, and that finishes our time of second readings. 04:10:17.048 --> 04:10:23.854 - Thank you so much for your time and patience. We now move to our final time of public comment. If there's 04:10:23.854 --> 04:10:30.468 - anybody in chambers or online who'd like to make public comment who did not make public comment during 04:10:30.468 --> 04:10:37.081 - the first, well, no one made public comment. So if you'd like to make public comment at this time, you 04:10:37.081 --> 04:10:38.622 - can come to the podium. 04:10:38.722 --> 04:10:45.464 - You know the rules by now. I see one approaching Hi Dave Askins with the B Square Bulletin there was 04:10:45.464 --> 04:10:52.340 - some brief discussion about whether the synopsis should be read for the four items This is Bloomington 04:10:52.340 --> 04:10:59.549 - municipal code the editor the synopsis shall be read whenever the legislation and accompanies it introduced 04:10:59.549 --> 04:11:06.292 - at a council meeting for the first or second reading and it shall become part of the official record 04:11:06.292 --> 04:11:08.094 - so I would be delighted if 04:11:08.546 --> 04:11:20.065 - those four synopses could just be read aloud. Thanks. Thank you. Anyone online that would like my comment? 04:11:20.065 --> 04:11:30.831 - Anyone else in chambers? Fantastic. Are there any motions? I yeah, sure. I'm sorry. I move that the 04:11:30.831 --> 04:11:35.998 - clerk put me on the spot. I move that the clerk 04:11:36.098 --> 04:11:43.993 - Read by title and synopsis only ordinance 20 26-8 20 26-9 20 26 10 and 20 26 11 Second there's a motion 04:11:43.993 --> 04:11:51.661 - in the second any discussion All those in favor say discussion go. Yes, please I don't know how this 04:11:51.661 --> 04:11:59.329 - works with procedure right now since we already voted on it but I think because it's past 1030 we'll 04:11:59.329 --> 04:12:01.758 - have to do a roll call vote and 04:12:03.234 --> 04:12:12.192 - Sounds good. I think I don't really know that comes from Prima Smith. I think it can be understood since 04:12:12.192 --> 04:12:21.236 - there was no objection that we all decided to. What's it called. Wave the rules suspend the rules suspend 04:12:21.236 --> 04:12:26.270 - the rules and not have all those synopsis read. Mr. Allen. 04:12:27.010 --> 04:12:32.432 - I think that that's a fair interpretation, it was unanimous, and if someone objected, they could have 04:12:32.432 --> 04:12:37.853 - made a motion. I was reading a different part of the code, which, Dave's right, there's two different 04:12:37.853 --> 04:12:43.275 - references in terms of reading the synopsis, but I also think that that's a fair interpretation, that 04:12:43.275 --> 04:12:48.644 - you all decided to suspend the rules by opting to consider them as a group, and then not reading the 04:12:48.644 --> 04:12:53.534 - synopsis, title and synopsis. It doesn't hurt to read it as well at this point, either, so. 04:12:53.826 --> 04:13:07.390 - There's a motion and a second on the table any other discussion All right Will the clerk please call 04:13:07.390 --> 04:13:20.954 - a voice a roll call on the motion to read Yes, please Councilmember Flaherty Stasper. Yes. Yes. Yes. 04:13:20.954 --> 04:13:23.774 - Yes. Sorry. Yes. Yes 04:13:24.386 --> 04:13:44.031 - Yes Yes Yes Will the clerk please read that carries eight zero all four of them Ordnance 20 2608 to 04:13:44.031 --> 04:13:52.478 - amend to provide technical corrections and 04:13:52.642 --> 04:14:01.558 - to title 20 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled Unified Development Ordinance. Synopsis, the 04:14:01.558 --> 04:14:10.830 - ordinance contains technical corrections or clarifications in the UDO, including reference corrections, 04:14:10.830 --> 04:14:20.192 - removal of unnecessary wording, and syncing references across the UDO. There are 22 amendments proposed. 04:14:20.192 --> 04:14:21.886 - Ordinance 2026-09. 04:14:22.434 --> 04:14:29.436 - amend and provide technical corrections to chapter 4 Development standards and incentives of title 20 04:14:29.436 --> 04:14:36.712 - of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled unified development ordinance Synopsis this ordinance contains 04:14:36.712 --> 04:14:43.645 - corrections and amendments to chapter 4 development standards and incentives there are 70 amendments 04:14:43.645 --> 04:14:45.086 - in this petition and 04:14:46.018 --> 04:14:53.729 - Ordinance 2026 dash 10 to amend and provide technical corrections to chapter 6 administration and procedures 04:14:53.729 --> 04:15:01.440 - of title 20 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled unified development ordinance Synopsis this ordinance 04:15:01.440 --> 04:15:08.939 - contains corrections and amendments to chapter 6 administration and procedures of the unified development 04:15:08.939 --> 04:15:12.830 - ordinance there are 27 amendments in this petition and 04:15:13.442 --> 04:15:20.834 - and ordinance 2026-11 to amend and provide technical corrections to Chapter 2, Zoning Districts, 04:15:20.834 --> 04:15:28.531 - Chapter 3, Use Regulations, Chapter 5, Subdivision Standards, and Chapter 7, Definitions of Title 20 04:15:28.531 --> 04:15:36.686 - of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled Unified Development Ordinance Synopsis. This ordinance contains 04:15:36.686 --> 04:15:41.182 - corrections and amendments to Chapter 2, Zoning Districts, 04:15:41.346 --> 04:15:49.535 - Chapter three use regulations chapter five subdivision standards Chapter seven definitions of the unified 04:15:49.535 --> 04:15:57.337 - development ordinance. There are 28 amendments in this petition This is a schedule fantastic, please 04:15:57.337 --> 04:16:05.371 - consider this portion of code All right any other things for any other things for the first get council 04:16:05.371 --> 04:16:10.238 - schedule Yes, please Councilmember Piedmont Smith and Stasberg 04:16:10.914 --> 04:16:18.544 - Well, I was just going to clarify that the Committee on Council Processes is meeting tomorrow. But you 04:16:18.544 --> 04:16:26.099 - won't be at 4 p.m. Where are we meeting the Alison conference room, I believe. So welcome to come and 04:16:26.099 --> 04:16:33.655 - join the fun comes with us. There was a fiscal committee meeting scheduled for this Friday at 830 and 04:16:33.655 --> 04:16:40.766 - I canceled that. So I just wanted to make sure to announce that the topic that we were going to 04:16:40.866 --> 04:16:47.108 - consider we couldn't, because Reedy Financial was not available on that day. So there is one more meeting 04:16:47.108 --> 04:16:53.057 - of fiscal committee before summer recess. Has the clerks have canceled? Fantastic. It's already been 04:16:53.057 --> 04:16:59.063 - canceled. Fantastic. It's all officially canceled already. Fantastic. Daily then, Peter R. Smith. And 04:16:59.063 --> 04:17:05.011 - tomorrow, no, no, Tuesday. After Monday, yeah, yeah. Yeah, next Tuesday, the day after Memorial Day, 04:17:05.011 --> 04:17:06.366 - the Jack Hopkins grant 04:17:06.690 --> 04:17:14.162 - Allocation meeting will be taking place at 6 p.m. I believe in McCloskey Tuesday no, no, no Tuesday 04:17:14.162 --> 04:17:21.783 - right right after right after Memorial Day Correction for the committee on council processes meeting. 04:17:21.783 --> 04:17:29.628 - It's in the McCloskey room. Okay, excellent Thank you. We have cleared our backlog. This was a fantastic 04:17:29.628 --> 04:17:31.870 - achievement. We are adjourned