WEBVTT

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- Like to call this meeting of the Common Council to order for June 10th that will please call the roll

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- Stasburg here Piedmont Smith Here Zulik here. Sorry here daily here Rallo here rough Rosenberger here.

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- Thank you. I

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- Thank you so much. All right, the agendas are posted there. There's some printed out there. We have

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- Quite a few items for second reading. I'm today and in addition to the many other things Are there any

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- motions for the agenda? I move to amend the agenda to move the reading of ordinance 20 26-12 so that

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- it is considered immediately after resolution 20 26-10 second. There's a motion in a second Will the

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- clerk please call the roll on that?

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- Discussion points councilman Stasberg. I Guess like I don't necessarily have that huge a concern except

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- that that's an agenda item that a lot of people might have wanted to do public comment on and I guess

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- I'm just concerned that people especially who might be online might be arriving late Knowing that it's

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- toward the end of the agenda is not a concern for anybody else. I Thought it was actually being kind

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- by trying to move it faster so that people

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- Be done with their night sooner who were looking to comment. All right. I mean I if that's not a concern

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- for anybody else then that's Okay, then you have comments Fantastic. Will the clerk please call the

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- roll? Yes Stasper yes Piedmont Smith Yes, Zulek. Yes. Sorry. Yes, Bailey. Yes Rallo. Yes rough. Yes

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- Rosenberger. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right Do we have any minutes for approval? No

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- Seeing none we will move on to reports to any councilmember has reports Seeing none we will move on

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- to reports from the The ESD department take it away

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- Do you have the slide deck for the presentation? All right, I'm Jane Cooper Smith director of economic

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- and sustainable development for the city of Bloomington My colleague Andrea de la Rosa is also here

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- this evening and I think we'll be cruising in to pick up this presentation at some point So this evening

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- we will present the 2025 tax abatement compliance report which fulfills a statutory reporting requirement and

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- Will also present information on active pilots and then we will be happy to receive questions at the

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- end of the presentation I'll just pass the mic to my colleague if she's ready Okay, thanks Thank you

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- for your patience

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- Good evening. I'm Andrea de la Rosa assistant director for small business development tonight I'll present

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- the 2025 tax abatement compliance report which fulfills the Indiana statutory reporting requirement

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- Director Cooper Smith will present information on active pilots. We will be happy to receive questions

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- at the end of the presentation This evening will cover a summary of the tax abatement program economic

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- impact of abatements review of active pilots and

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- The Economic Development Commission unanimously approved this report on June 2nd 2026 to keep

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- the presentation within the allotted time The overview section will be omitted but retained in the slide

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- deck for public reference Supporting materials are included in your packet in an accessible format What

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- is the tax abatement

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- Tax abatement temporarily reduces taxes on new investment in real or personal property It applies only

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- to the increment the increased the increase in assessed value due to the project The property's original

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- value continues to be taxed Eligibility and reprieve and approval projects must be located in a designated

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- economic revitalization area some residential projects also require designation as an economic development

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- target area

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- Approval involves involves review by city staff a formal recommendation for and the Economic Development

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- Commission and final designation and authorization by the Common Council through a public process Most

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- abatements last one to ten years and follow a sliding scale personal property abatements can go up to

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- 20 years state law allows the for alternative schedules if justified by the project and

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- Each application includes an SP one form which sets baseline projections for investment assessed value

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- job creation and wages We also evaluate community-based. I'm sorry community focus goals such as affordable

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- housing sustainability full-time employment and contributions to local character Rules and responsibility

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- and attacks in tax abatement approvals

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- This is the compliance review process the staff reviews EDC recommends common council authorizes and

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- county and ministers Projects are monitored annually through CF one filings staff evaluates actual for

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- actual performance against SB one commitments projects are classified as compliant Substantially compliant

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- and non-compliant

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- The EDC forwards the report to the council for final action where the council may approve abatements

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- as compliant or Substantially compliant or request a hearing to consider a finding of non-compliance

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- relevant departments such as hand also review specific commitments including affordable housing requirements

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- a hearing is required for any non-compliance finding as the council must determine whether unmet commitments

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- results resulted from factors within the company's control and

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- the economic impact overview overview new real personal property investment Five hundred and thirty

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- nine million dollars in proposed investment four hundred eleven million in actual investment assessed

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- value increased from 164 million to two hundred and three million dollars This increase meets the but

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- for standard these gains wouldn't have occurred without the abatements. I

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- Jobs and wages. Projects reported 1,938 total jobs and $152 million in salaries. While some fell short

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- of job targets, several exceed wage projections, indicating fewer but higher paying jobs. For example,

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- Catalan's average full-time wages are around $81,000. Affordable housing outcomes.

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- Abatements also supported deeply affordable housing new urban station 15 affordable using units at below

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- at or below 80% with a specified rent range of six hundred and forty one dollars to twelve hundred and

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- eighty two dollars Tenants currently have an average AMI of forty one point seven five percent average

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- rent is at eight hundred and fifteen dollars a month and occupancy is at forty one hundred and forty percent

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- Southern all 31 units at 28% AMI 94% occupancy union at Crescent 102 units allocated at or below 60%

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- AMI with 15 units flexible for market rate or affordable housing 36 currently occupied for a total of

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- 61% these projects show how abatements are leveraged to expand housing access and

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- Southern Ola's in its sixth year of abatement exceeded investment job and wage commitments The assessed

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- value is at 130 percent of its SB 1 projection 26 units serve households at or below 60 percent AMI

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- Staff recommends a finding of compliance for this project Union at Crescent unit at Crescent is a hundred.

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- I'm sorry 146 unit mixed income development

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- 102 units committed as affordable at 60% AMI 63 of the 120 committed units are currently occupied at

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- 62% occupancy This is lower than the 2024 occupancy rate of 64 percent However, the property has undergone

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- significant effort and expense to support a turnaround property management reverted to the developer

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- the annex group in March 2025 and

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- City staff from hand and office of the mayor have been working to improve this property since 2024 a

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- security trailer was installed which supported a reduction in calls a Traffic barricade was insulted

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- was installed to stop through traffic in 2025 the property owner spent 1 million directly on replacing

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- HVAC units exterior siding and other items covering 30 units in total five units had

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- significant mold issues that it's seated remediation necessitate necessitating an expenditure of $120,000

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- for just those five units 31 evictions were were processed since March 22 2025 in accordance with lease

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- enforcement procedures The property now holds a city occupancy permit following repeated re-inspections

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- due to code compliance issues

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- The property passed all compliance inspections hand in January IH CDA in April and home units in April

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- in 2025 staff issued a recommendation of non-compliance Following a July hearing an abatement was approved

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- after low occupancy rates were determined to be due to factors outside the company's control This year

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- following significant investments in capital and staff resources

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- The turnaround plan staff recommended a finding of substantial compliance to the EDC the EDC approved

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- that recommendation Recommendation which is reflected in this presentation at this at this hearing council

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- may approve May approve the recommendation or call for a hearing should additional information from

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- the property owner be required questions about this property are welcome at the end of this presentation and

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- New investment is at 159% of its SP 1 projection full-time staff at double the SP 1 projection and 163%

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- more than the Bloomington living wage ordinance Unit and Crescent has hired a third-party consulting

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- service to hit the 85% total occupancy goal by August 20 26 given the major investment investments the

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- eviction renovation new lease up and reputational repair

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- City staff believes that the annex group is doing everything within its power to bring the property

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- back to the required occupancy rate Staff recommends a finding of substantial compliance due to significant

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- investment and progress in the proposed turnaround plan Urban station is a four-story mixed-use building

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- with 7,000 square feet of commercial space and 148 bedrooms exceeding the investment this exceeded the

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- investment commitments and

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- It fell short unemployment, but retained wages above the proposed SB 1 commitment Providing 23 bedrooms

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- at or below 80% AMI and exceeding commitment by 40% 100% occupancy in affordable units staff recommends

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- a finding of substantially compliant Willery mill

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- Historic mill redevelopment on tap wrote Reported four point three million in real estate investment

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- toward a six million dollar commitment Phase one is completed the event space phase two. The condo hotel

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- is delayed due to market conditions William will created 60 jobs versus the 45 projected full and part-time

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- salaries met or exceeded goals The assessed value current is currently at 2.5 million on track to relative

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- Track relative to developmental stage staff recommends a finding of substantially compliant The catalytic

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- summary catalytic holds three active abatements now under novo nor disc following the late 2024 acquisition

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- Resolutions 1506 and 1904 exceeded investment and salary targets and

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- recommends I'm sorry Staff recommendation is that 1506 and 1904 are compliant with tax payment commitments

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- Resolution 2206 210 million in total investment over the lifetime of the abatement to date and staff

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- finds can find substantially compliant and

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- This is a breakdown of the retained employment new employment and total employment for Catalan This

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- is broken out by each resolution SB ones for 1506 1904 and 2206 show the proposed employment for retained

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- new and total the 2206 CF one filing indicates employment across all sites Catalan reported a total

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- year-end headcount of 1867 employees

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- This is a little bit more straightforward slide to reflect that This slide compares projected and reported

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- salary outcomes for resolutions 1506 1904 and 2206 based on CF one filings resolutions 1506 and 1904

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- projected SP one salaries of 300 I'm sorry thirty four point two million dollars

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- That's resolution 1506 and fifty seven point two million dollars resolution 1904 to equal ninety one

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- point four million dollars actual reported salary of the CF one was a hundred and fifty point eight

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- million dollars projected average wage was fifty five thousand dollars, but the actual average wage

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- is eighty thousand

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- resolution 2206 projected a salary of 267 million actual reported at 150 point eight million million

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- This is inherited data with no new jobs added Additionally cattle and also provided median wage numbers

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- and salaries this afternoon These numbers also exceed the SB 1 wages and salaries as opposed to having

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- an average where we're taking all the numbers and just Figuring out the thing that's in the middle.

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- This is a good assessment

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- against higher wages and lower wages Average median hourly wage is $35.25 average median total wages

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- are 68 thousand one hundred dollars hourly rate hourly range is from $19 to 160 $160 and salary ranges start at

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- $15,000 which is part-time to six hundred and ninety thousand dollars And this is the wages broken out

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- a little bit more clearly as opposed to having each individual CF one Staff recommends compliance for

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- 1506 1904 and substantial compliance for 2206 with continued monitoring

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- Retreat at switch shard is No longer under construction. I forgot to fix that in my script They are

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- up and running and we're very excited about their ribbon cutting tomorrow This is a huge milestone for

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- them it's been a long time getting this project off the ground and

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- This is a affordable housing unit affordable housing development, which includes 64 units in a five-story

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- building with dedicated first floor retail space 48 of the housing units are already Occupied so 75%

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- of the total units I'm sorry for 8% of the housing units Ours are for low to moderate income residents

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- for a period of 99 years and the remaining 16 units will be available for lease on the market and

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- Partnering with stone belt and will set aside 10 units of the 48 as housing along with additional service

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- areas within the project for stone belts clients According to the position or statement of benefits

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- this project would create two new full-time permanent jobs with an estimated total annual payroll of

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- $80,000 with the lower the low starting full-time wage of $35,000 per year the construction is complete

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- 41 units are occupied and

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- And 35 units are at or below 60% AMI So as you can see there has been a substantial investment in this

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- property which is far exceeding their SB 1 commitments the new salaries and the assessed value are also

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- exceeding the original commitments and

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- We also monitor for pilot agreements that support long-term affordable housing at or below 60% AMI and

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- director Cooper Smith will present these now Thanks D I'm back okay, so we have four active pilots well

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- to our only are active and to our not yet started but evergreen village is the first one it's located

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- at 3607 South Henderson and

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- This pilot was approved in 2016 for a 115 unit residential care facility for residents at 60% or below

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- AMI this Payment as mark does not yet received it was sent It was it never landed for some reason, but

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- they're sending a new payment as of today So that there's no issue there in my opinion country view

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- Located at 2500 South Rockport Road. This pilot supported the rehabilitation and preservation of 206

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- affordable apartments These are available at 60% AMI below and this pilot is active and compliant all

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- paid up Cambridge Square this body will remember as you approved this pilot in 2025 it's located at

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- 307 North Pete Ellis Drive and

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- This pilot was approved last year and will last 17 years it facilitated rehab of 153 units for residents

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- 62 and up or differently abled. No payment is due until next year for this property I asked for a status

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- update on the renovation all interiors of units are completed kitchens baths flooring full ADA accessible

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- units, etc They are working on stair repairs and just started the second elevator modernization with

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- one more to be done after that

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- Concrete and asphalt items will be starting shortly and should be completed by July amenities are completed.

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- There was one vacancy at that At that location and then Henderson Court is the other pilot that you

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- approved last year. It's located at 2475 South Winslow Court It supports the rehabilitation of 150 units

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- that are highly affordable at 60% AMI and below it also accepts section 8 housing assistance program

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- vouchers or

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- Payments housing assistance payments all interiors of the units are completed. So kitchens baths flooring

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- full ADA accessible units and they have some remaining roofs to replace some deck work to be completed

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- completed a sagging floor And amenities are not yet done. So they're waiting on a permit for the dog

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- park playground and sidewalks and they are working through that with the city staff right now and

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- Then remaining our asphalt and concrete and landscaping so so they're moving along no vacant units.

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- So I think that concludes The pilot portion of this and then with that we're happy happy to take questions

00:22:30.485 --> 00:22:38.270
- I might just Observe one other thing that we filed a separate memo for you all for Union at Crescent

00:22:38.270 --> 00:22:43.742
- just so that you had detailed information available at that about that

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- Abatement, so right now it's still contained in this full suite But if you choose to request a hearing

00:22:51.136 --> 00:22:58.011
- I think it will be helpful for you to have all that information separately Thank you so much director

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- Cooper Smith and director de la Rosa any questions first All right seeing none Councilmembers are there

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- any is there anyone that you'd like to call for a hearing or are we happy to proceed with the recommendation

00:23:12.366 --> 00:23:13.310
- staff? Please

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- Thank you. Thank you so much for all this. I'm glad to hear that Union Crescent seems to be doing a

00:23:20.471 --> 00:23:27.644
- whole lot better Do either of you know or is there hand stuff here? Who knows because I know that part

00:23:27.644 --> 00:23:34.887
- of those struggle there was a struggle of reputation That started like really going downhill. Has there

00:23:34.887 --> 00:23:41.852
- been some recovery in that? reputational kind of damage as they've done these repairs and Are there

00:23:41.852 --> 00:23:43.454
- fewer like complaints?

00:23:43.970 --> 00:23:50.453
- I I know hand can attest that there are fewer complaints about the facility in terms of reputation I

00:23:50.453 --> 00:23:56.999
- don't really feel like I can comment on that, but I think all of these improvements Drive toward that

00:23:56.999 --> 00:24:03.546
- and the reputational repair probably has the longest timeline on it. Okay? Thanks. Does does director

00:24:03.546 --> 00:24:04.958
- Killian Hansen wanna?

00:24:06.530 --> 00:24:13.929
- Anna Killian Hansen housing and neighborhood development It's hard to speak to reputation because I

00:24:13.929 --> 00:24:21.625
- feel like that is in the eye of the beholder However, I will say just anecdotally that we have received

00:24:21.625 --> 00:24:26.878
- fewer complaints that they did receive their rental permit finally and

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- They did go to the building housing quality appeals board for an extension of time to resolve a lot

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- of their issues They are actively putting money into the property Evictions take time when you have

00:24:42.256 --> 00:24:50.117
- troubled tenants that are causing damage to the units and so it it takes time to turn that ship I can't

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- speculate as to

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- what the future will hold, but I will say that we're in a much better position today than we were in

00:25:01.035 --> 00:25:10.736
- 2024 or even last year. So things just take time, but hopefully, yes. Okay, great. Thank you. I'm just

00:25:10.736 --> 00:25:16.670
- really glad to hear that. Yeah. Yes, thank you for the report.

00:25:19.458 --> 00:25:27.241
- First of all, I wanted to request that in the future we have, for the jobs created, we have the number

00:25:27.241 --> 00:25:35.175
- of full-time versus part-time. That would help us better evaluate the value of those salaries. Secondly,

00:25:35.175 --> 00:25:42.807
- and probably most more important in this context, is the Cadillac tax abatement, which really should

00:25:42.807 --> 00:25:47.038
- be called the Novo Nordisk tax abatement at this point.

00:25:47.426 --> 00:25:53.761
- I don't understand why they're considered substantially compliant when the planned jobs in the SB one

00:25:53.761 --> 00:26:00.221
- were four thousand two hundred twelve and the actuals are one thousand eight hundred sixty seven Thanks

00:26:00.221 --> 00:26:06.680
- for these questions just one note on the way we report jobs I agree that it would be better if we could

00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:12.953
- have those total jobs numbers they're not required through the SB one through the state reporting so

00:26:12.953 --> 00:26:16.990
- we can request them and It's just if the organization chooses to

00:26:17.314 --> 00:26:26.479
- Provide them they're not obligated, but we can certainly ask for them and then on the Nova Nordisk Abatement

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- that was previously Catalan this Gets to the issue of factors within or outside the company's control

00:26:35.055 --> 00:26:43.715
- and the major job loss there happened actually shortly after I Mean, it's really in 2023. I think they

00:26:43.715 --> 00:26:46.910
- had their first job loss and this was

00:26:47.042 --> 00:26:54.774
- Their growth was due to the pandemic and the Defense Production Act which drove vaccine production to

00:26:54.774 --> 00:27:03.036
- that site for J&J and Moderna and so the city they had massive growth and the city provided these abatements

00:27:03.036 --> 00:27:10.844
- they they had one round of growth and then this Supported kind of like a second big push the site rose

00:27:10.844 --> 00:27:13.118
- at one point to I think 30 to

00:27:14.114 --> 00:27:22.734
- 700 jobs. I think that was the peak number and then the market completely bottomed out of the vaccine

00:27:22.734 --> 00:27:31.439
- market bottomed out and You know, it is just the it is the staff opinion that this is a factor outside

00:27:31.439 --> 00:27:39.806
- of their control and that the company is Motivated to employ as many people as it possibly can and

00:27:40.450 --> 00:27:49.511
- also must protect the organization so that it's available for long-time employment. So I hope that answers

00:27:49.511 --> 00:27:58.234
- the question. And if more information is needed, we'd be happy to try to investigate that. So couldn't

00:27:58.234 --> 00:28:04.670
- that be foreseen that the vaccine production would slow down at some point?

00:28:08.002 --> 00:28:15.183
- The question on the state's SB or the state's Sorry, the information in the state statute is only about

00:28:15.183 --> 00:28:22.226
- whether it is within or outside of the company's control and so market forces are necessarily outside

00:28:22.226 --> 00:28:29.337
- the company's control and whether they could foresee it or not, I Don't know. I assume that they Would

00:28:29.337 --> 00:28:34.654
- anticipate that there would be changes there would be market fluctuations. I

00:28:37.602 --> 00:28:47.808
- Okay, and do you know whether the employee numbers are stabilizing at this point? Yes, so they had an

00:28:47.808 --> 00:28:56.914
- additional series of reduction. They had another reduction in force this year, and we have

00:28:56.914 --> 00:29:04.318
- been in communication with the employer. The plant manager reached out to

00:29:04.418 --> 00:29:12.029
- The mayor to talk about the process that they were going through with employees in what what he emphasized

00:29:12.029 --> 00:29:19.213
- was that this Decision which was odious to them. It was what they You know least want to do but that

00:29:19.213 --> 00:29:26.540
- it was essential for their long-term stability for them to be able to be a Stable a stable partner and

00:29:26.540 --> 00:29:28.958
- a stable operation in Bloomington

00:29:33.346 --> 00:29:41.021
- They didn't give any indication whether more job cuts are coming or whether they consider it stable

00:29:41.021 --> 00:29:48.697
- at this point And we know they gave the impression that this was the this was kind of the mate this

00:29:48.697 --> 00:29:56.833
- was the major reorg that they were going through and It was not indicated that there would be incremental

00:29:56.833 --> 00:30:01.054
- changes I This is probably color commentary and so I I

00:30:01.186 --> 00:30:10.940
- Like what I just said is probably color commentary. So I don't know Yeah I'm going by what the information

00:30:10.940 --> 00:30:20.055
- that we were given but I hope it's you know, yeah Okay, thank you Thank you so much council members

00:30:20.055 --> 00:30:28.350
- anybody is there any motion to call anybody for a For a hearing are you happy to continue?

00:30:30.754 --> 00:30:36.374
- Just doing comments or questions What I'm asking for is we have it we have a choice We can call for

00:30:36.374 --> 00:30:41.993
- a vote just to approve as they've as they've proposed But if there's a particular entity that you'd

00:30:41.993 --> 00:30:48.006
- like to have a hearing for we can start that process as well Yeah, I just wanted to make a general comment

00:30:48.006 --> 00:30:53.963
- Okay, go ahead then and then and then we'll I'll just well if there can be a motion for a vote thereafter

00:30:53.963 --> 00:30:59.358
- That'd be great. Well, thank you Council president, sorry this is always since the beginning of

00:30:59.618 --> 00:31:07.308
- By serving on council the whole tax abatement Program and I know a lot of is driven by the state the

00:31:07.308 --> 00:31:15.151
- rules and Conditions are set by the state, but it's always been so it's always been such a problem for

00:31:15.151 --> 00:31:22.765
- me this idea that Market forces are outside their control That's what business is right you and you

00:31:22.765 --> 00:31:27.486
- take a loss if you have have a loss and If you get a windfall

00:31:29.698 --> 00:31:36.809
- There's no sharing of that with with the with the community So if you have the what the but for test

00:31:36.809 --> 00:31:44.061
- where this investment wouldn't have been made by the company Had it not been for the tax abatement and

00:31:44.061 --> 00:31:51.383
- then in a scenario where that would lead you had a windfall where it just turned out to be just a great

00:31:51.383 --> 00:31:58.635
- Investment and it briefed all kinds of benefits to the company That's outside that's the market forces

00:31:58.635 --> 00:31:59.550
- and it seems

00:31:59.682 --> 00:32:07.472
- Always seem to me like there should be some sharing of windfall profits when things go super well If

00:32:07.472 --> 00:32:15.262
- we're going to say when things don't go well, it's a Mark it's a market forces outside their control

00:32:15.262 --> 00:32:22.974
- and they're not really out of compliance with with promises now I understand and I believe that The

00:32:22.974 --> 00:32:28.990
- firms all want to be good corporate citizens but just the the whole idea that

00:32:29.858 --> 00:32:38.401
- You know, we we subsidize it's just a classic example of socializing risk and loss and Privatizing the

00:32:38.401 --> 00:32:46.695
- profits mainly primarily to seems to me like anyway, that's all. Thank you. Thank you Right as them

00:32:46.695 --> 00:32:55.320
- is can I entertain a motion at this point to approve the report as given If somebody would like to move

00:32:55.320 --> 00:32:59.550
- Sure, I move to approve the report as given second

00:32:59.810 --> 00:33:13.218
- There's a motion and a second any discussion Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember Sasberg.

00:33:13.218 --> 00:33:26.116
- Yes, he's not Smith Yes Zulek, yes. Sorry. Yes. Daily. Yes. Rallo. Yes, rough. Yes Ross Rosenberger.

00:33:26.116 --> 00:33:28.670
- Yes and flirty. Yes

00:33:28.898 --> 00:33:35.848
- Thank you so much. And thank you to the SD department for your time moving on to council committees

00:33:35.848 --> 00:33:42.937
- We have a report from hiring committee councilor Zulek and then afterwards to councilmember Stossberg

00:33:42.937 --> 00:33:50.373
- for fiscal committee. Yes Thank you. So we did receive five applications for our council attorney position

00:33:50.373 --> 00:33:57.809
- and We will be conducting interviews over the break. We will be interviewing I believe all five candidates

00:33:57.809 --> 00:33:58.782
- and given the

00:33:58.978 --> 00:34:06.477
- availability of The council members on the hiring committee We are going to need to designate council

00:34:06.477 --> 00:34:13.830
- president. Sorry to swap council members in and out as needed But I'm happy to answer any questions

00:34:13.830 --> 00:34:21.624
- about that the context is certain council members are going to be out of town and We need to meet quorum.

00:34:21.624 --> 00:34:24.638
- So we might need some people swapped out

00:34:25.250 --> 00:34:31.342
- Any questions? Can I just add one context, two context things and then Councillor Piedmont-Smith might

00:34:31.342 --> 00:34:37.316
- have something. The goal is we're going to do quick interviews with the first five and then with the

00:34:37.316 --> 00:34:43.467
- idea of hopefully from that group finding sort of two to three candidates and then we'll make sure that

00:34:43.467 --> 00:34:49.560
- everybody gets a chance to meet sort of the finalists. We'll do a sort of longer set of interviews for

00:34:49.560 --> 00:34:54.942
- those finalists, if you will. So it'll be a couple of rounds here just to clarify on that.

00:34:55.330 --> 00:35:03.205
- And so yeah, sorry, I'll stop talking What exactly do you mean by like swapping people in and out and

00:35:03.205 --> 00:35:11.235
- getting quorum Councilmember Piedmont Smith and I are both gonna be out of the country and and so we're

00:35:11.235 --> 00:35:18.956
- gonna have a little bit of difficulty Having enough people in person in Bloomington to hold the the

00:35:18.956 --> 00:35:21.118
- interviews so we might need

00:35:21.314 --> 00:35:28.808
- someone else to serve on the committee so that we can make quorum and keep progress. I guess I thought

00:35:28.808 --> 00:35:36.229
- procedurally that the president had to like do that in public in terms of switching committee things.

00:35:36.229 --> 00:35:43.722
- So like what does that look like or do we have to have a motion saying that you can do that behind the

00:35:43.722 --> 00:35:50.270
- scenes. And similarly like those interviews aren't actually public though right. Correct.

00:35:50.914 --> 00:35:57.991
- So are they counted as executive sessions because I wasn't sure the executives that that interviews

00:35:57.991 --> 00:36:05.492
- can count as executive sessions Councilman council attorney session and this account of personnel matters

00:36:05.492 --> 00:36:13.135
- in terms of alternate members on the committee I'd recommend having a vote on that and naming the alternate

00:36:13.135 --> 00:36:17.310
- members that would be on that committee to serve as needed

00:36:18.626 --> 00:36:25.066
- We could name them now as alternates. Yes, okay So so with that we don't need a motion for that I can

00:36:25.066 --> 00:36:31.947
- just name them because the statute says that the president gets to name alternates Can I just name everybody

00:36:31.947 --> 00:36:38.513
- on council as an alternate and just move that way? I guess you could but it you know Well, just a quick

00:36:38.513 --> 00:36:45.205
- question and I don't want to we don't have to waste so much time on this but it is there I mean if nobody

00:36:45.205 --> 00:36:46.910
- is available that's that's

00:36:47.074 --> 00:36:54.811
- It's um, you know, we can just push off the interviews for a longer time But is anybody available over

00:36:54.811 --> 00:37:02.473
- the next six weeks in any increment to do an interview in person? Can you say the dates the dates the

00:37:02.473 --> 00:37:10.135
- dates are yet to be determined? Correct. I am mostly available Okay, so so so I would like to appoint

00:37:10.135 --> 00:37:16.670
- councilmember Flaherty as an alternate to this committee I'm available until July 10th

00:37:16.770 --> 00:37:24.329
- Okay, fantastic. I would like to appoint councilmember Rosenberger as an alternate to this committee

00:37:24.329 --> 00:37:31.363
- I have another question. Yes, please. I think we've accomplished Do we need to? Have any kind

00:37:31.363 --> 00:37:38.398
- of clarification to make sure like in this like alternate scenario like Are they alternating?

00:37:39.138 --> 00:37:45.201
- Are they specifically going in for somebody? Do we have to specify that there's not never gonna be a

00:37:45.201 --> 00:37:51.203
- quorum of counsel at any of these if there are more alternates like I just I just want to make sure

00:37:51.203 --> 00:37:57.326
- that we're like dotting our eyes and crossing exactly so so I mean, I think that obviously like we're

00:37:57.326 --> 00:38:03.509
- not gonna have a quorum of counsel with Like is there more attorney Allen that we have to do to ensure

00:38:03.509 --> 00:38:06.270
- that kind of scenario doesn't happen and that

00:38:08.706 --> 00:38:14.569
- Other than please don't have five of you show up exactly. Yes So as long as five of us don't show up,

00:38:14.569 --> 00:38:20.490
- it's fine. It still has to be noticed I mean there are elements of even if it is, you know for for the

00:38:20.490 --> 00:38:26.295
- interviews It still has to be noticed as a committee as a quorum of the committee And so there would

00:38:26.295 --> 00:38:32.101
- still be a public notice that's sent out for it But certainly because you know as long as it's being

00:38:32.101 --> 00:38:38.366
- held in accordance with the personnel rules There's no there's no issue though All right, so so I'm going to

00:38:38.850 --> 00:38:44.956
- I've said this officially then and there would be alternates for councilmember P month Smith and myself

00:38:44.956 --> 00:38:50.945
- All right. So, okay. Is that is that all you need then is the two and that one? Yes, I think we'll be

00:38:50.945 --> 00:38:56.993
- good. Okay. Yes And again, we'll make sure that everybody has opportunities to meet to meet with these

00:38:56.993 --> 00:39:03.217
- candidates as we progress through I'll pass to you council member Stossberg for a fiscal committee report

00:39:03.217 --> 00:39:05.918
- Thank you, um, I just kind of realized that I

00:39:06.530 --> 00:39:13.592
- You know, it's halfway through the year and I don't think that I'd actually given an official fiscal

00:39:13.592 --> 00:39:20.653
- committee report and so I Wrote up just a little something. I'm trying to find it right now. Oh Dear

00:39:20.653 --> 00:39:28.414
- just about what we have been doing this year and oh my gosh, there are like three packets here right now, so I

00:39:29.634 --> 00:39:35.552
- There it is So if you read it, that's basically all it is. We've been meeting about every two weeks

00:39:35.552 --> 00:39:41.885
- We decided as a committee that it would be easier for us and easier on our schedules to have more frequent

00:39:41.885 --> 00:39:48.099
- shorter meetings so we're pretty good at keeping them to an hour and then at some meetings we're talking

00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:54.195
- about administrative sort of stuff and at the other meetings we're talking about council related stuff

00:39:54.195 --> 00:39:59.166
- and so I have some things listed about the specifics of what those might entail and

00:40:00.994 --> 00:40:08.346
- Yeah, that's that's about it. I guess I'm hoping that everybody read those two pages and I don't feel

00:40:08.346 --> 00:40:15.553
- a need to To add anything to it I just wanted to make sure to give people an opportunity to ask any

00:40:15.553 --> 00:40:22.833
- questions about what's going on in fiscal committee Or weigh in at all on anything Thank you so much

00:40:22.833 --> 00:40:27.806
- any questions Fantastic and do we have any other council committees?

00:40:28.546 --> 00:40:36.092
- None none and okay fantastic. Do we have any we will move on now to the first session of public comment

00:40:36.092 --> 00:40:43.492
- This is everyone's favorite part of the council meeting Is there anybody here that would like to make

00:40:43.492 --> 00:40:50.893
- comment on something that is not on the agenda? If you would like to you can have some time and there

00:40:50.893 --> 00:40:58.366
- will be another moment to do that at the end No one in chambers. Is there anyone online? Anyone online

00:41:00.770 --> 00:41:06.514
- Are you conferring about whether or not there's someone online? Okay, I'm going to take that to mean

00:41:06.514 --> 00:41:12.202
- that there's no one online So I still don't think they heard the question. Is there anybody online?

00:41:12.202 --> 00:41:18.287
- All right, so no one online we will move on there'll be another moment for public comment any appointments

00:41:18.287 --> 00:41:24.145
- of boards and commissions All right, seeing none. We'll move on to legislation for second readings and

00:41:24.145 --> 00:41:30.004
- resolutions. I Move that resolution 20 26-10 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis

00:41:30.004 --> 00:41:30.686
- only second

00:41:31.170 --> 00:41:40.178
- There's a motion in a second or the clerk, please call the roll Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes,

00:41:40.178 --> 00:41:49.554
- so like yes, sorry. Yes, Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes, Ruff. Yes, Rosenberger. Yes Flaherty. Yes, Stasburg.

00:41:49.554 --> 00:41:53.598
- Yes. Thank you very much. Well, please read

00:41:56.546 --> 00:42:02.452
- resolution 2026 dash 10 on the existential risk of artificial intelligence. The synopsis is as follows.

00:42:02.452 --> 00:42:08.414
- This resolution is sponsored by council member Rallo. It calls for officials at all levels of government

00:42:08.414 --> 00:42:14.093
- to consider and acquaint themselves with the existential risks posed by artificial intelligence and

00:42:14.093 --> 00:42:19.771
- calls for the imposition of a moratorium on artificial general intelligence development until there

00:42:19.771 --> 00:42:24.030
- is a guarantee that the technology aligns with human values and wellbeing.

00:42:26.050 --> 00:42:34.012
- Excellent. Thank you very much. I move that resolution 20 26-10 be adopted second. All right Thank you

00:42:34.012 --> 00:42:41.742
- president sorry, this is resolution 20 26 10 on the existential risk of artificial intelligence the

00:42:41.742 --> 00:42:49.627
- focus of this resolution is on advanced models of the frontier AI companies mostly located in Silicon

00:42:49.627 --> 00:42:54.110
- Valley, but some international such as those in China and

00:42:55.202 --> 00:43:02.529
- These companies are in a race to achieve AGI, artificial general intelligence, that may already be super

00:43:02.529 --> 00:43:09.506
- intelligent when AGI is attained or will soon evolve to be once AGI is achieved. Artificial general

00:43:09.506 --> 00:43:16.554
- intelligence, also known as agentic AI, is capable of acting autonomously and is capable of equaling

00:43:16.554 --> 00:43:22.206
- or surpassing humans in all cognitive domains. It is designed to replace people,

00:43:22.946 --> 00:43:30.594
- and that is its main economic incentive for its development. AGI with general capabilities is distinguished

00:43:30.594 --> 00:43:37.746
- from narrow AI, which is designed to excel in specific tasks. Narrow AI, for instance, has been used

00:43:37.746 --> 00:43:45.394
- for healthcare diagnostics, precision X-ray analysis, protein folding for drug development, fraud detection

00:43:45.394 --> 00:43:51.838
- in banking, and so forth, all beneficial for human beings. Narrow AI needs regulation too,

00:43:52.002 --> 00:43:59.911
- But unlike general intelligence, it does not exhibit agency. It will not compete for control. Agentic

00:43:59.911 --> 00:44:07.665
- AI with super intelligence has been warned about for decades. It was thought to be many years away,

00:44:07.665 --> 00:44:15.806
- decades, 50, 100 years away, but with the rate of change, it could arrive now within the next few years.

00:44:17.922 --> 00:44:25.618
- While striving for AGI, the Frontier Labs have been endowing their models with the ability to develop

00:44:25.618 --> 00:44:33.164
- their own code to improve themselves. Anthropic, one of the Frontier companies, for instance, their

00:44:33.164 --> 00:44:40.784
- model is Claude, is programming about 80% of its own code currently. Soon, it's expected to be 100%,

00:44:40.784 --> 00:44:47.198
- autonomously developing itself. AI safety experts have warned of the dangers of this

00:44:47.682 --> 00:44:55.040
- in what they say could well result in what's called an intelligence explosion, whereby the AI model

00:44:55.040 --> 00:45:02.619
- improves itself in a recurrent self-improvement that no one can control. No one can control it because

00:45:02.619 --> 00:45:09.977
- it will have far exceeded our intelligence. Our intelligence, after all, is why we are the dominant

00:45:09.977 --> 00:45:16.894
- species on Earth. No other animal has even the remotest chance of taking control from humans.

00:45:17.826 --> 00:45:26.790
- Larry Allen, could you display that figure the first figure? And it's also the reason why we've appropriated

00:45:26.790 --> 00:45:35.507
- Most of the habitats on earth because of our intelligence We have driven most wild animals to the margins

00:45:35.507 --> 00:45:44.306
- or they have had to adapt to the modified habitat that we have created for ourselves So this these figures

00:45:44.306 --> 00:45:46.526
- show the mammalian biomass

00:45:47.106 --> 00:45:57.150
- of planet Earth currently and only about 5% is relegated to wild mammals the remainder the other 95

00:45:57.150 --> 00:46:07.395
- is either occupied by humans by our livestock or our pets and It's very similar situation with birds.

00:46:07.395 --> 00:46:15.230
- They may be better adapted in some ways to our artificial habit habitats, but

00:46:15.330 --> 00:46:23.332
- Poultry occupy the vast majority of bird biomass on the earth. So what would happen if we had the second

00:46:23.332 --> 00:46:31.106
- most intelligent species? Keep in mind that the difference in intelligence between us and chimpanzees

00:46:31.106 --> 00:46:39.261
- is about five to one. There are over eight billion people. There's about 50,000 chimpanzees on the planet.

00:46:39.261 --> 00:46:44.062
- Super-intelligent AI ratio of intelligence could be 10 to one.

00:46:44.450 --> 00:46:52.670
- 100 to one, 1,000 to one. We would be no match for them. We would lose control. If this sounds fanciful,

00:46:52.670 --> 00:47:00.577
- consider what Jeffrey Hinton, the godfather of modern AI, and Nobel Prize winner says, quoting, this

00:47:00.577 --> 00:47:08.641
- is not science fiction, and it is not fear-mongering, it is real. He has recently placed a probability

00:47:08.641 --> 00:47:13.182
- of our survival of achieving super-intelligent AI at 50%.

00:47:14.434 --> 00:47:22.587
- Other AI safety experts place our survival at zero. Eliezer Yudkowsky and Nate Soares in their book,

00:47:22.587 --> 00:47:30.821
- best-selling New York Times, if anyone builds it, everyone dies. Why superhuman AI would kill us all.

00:47:30.821 --> 00:47:38.893
- They argue that we would simply be displaced if superintelligent AI or superintelligent AI may just

00:47:38.893 --> 00:47:40.830
- choose to eliminate us.

00:47:41.794 --> 00:47:48.670
- It would surely want our resources, material and energy for itself, that we currently use, just as we

00:47:48.670 --> 00:47:55.749
- appropriate planet Earth for our needs. Another AI safety expert, Roman Yompolsky, the person who coined

00:47:55.749 --> 00:48:02.963
- the term AI safety, who has published over 100 papers on the topic, also asserts that we would not survive

00:48:02.963 --> 00:48:04.446
- super-intelligent AI.

00:48:04.578 --> 00:48:11.898
- In a recent talk at Oxford University, London, he describes it as, quote, a giant experiment being performed

00:48:11.898 --> 00:48:18.680
- on humanity without our consent involving the possible extermination of eight billion people and all

00:48:18.680 --> 00:48:26.000
- future descendants. People ask, couldn't we just program them to treat us well? This is called the alignment

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:33.118
- problem. Couldn't we just align them with human well-being, program them to treat us kindly with respect,

00:48:34.370 --> 00:48:41.105
- The AI experts say no. First, it is difficult because human values are incredibly complex and nuanced.

00:48:41.105 --> 00:48:48.102
- Second, it is difficult because modern AIs are not programmed as much as they are grown within inscrutable

00:48:48.102 --> 00:48:54.903
- neural networks, within huge data centers. Neural networks that are impossible to understand. In short,

00:48:54.903 --> 00:49:01.573
- the developers have no means to control these AIs. They don't understand how they work. They admit to

00:49:01.573 --> 00:49:02.750
- this, by the way.

00:49:03.042 --> 00:49:10.662
- and yet they continue to develop ever more powerful AI models. They are becoming so powerful that some

00:49:10.662 --> 00:49:18.431
- researchers are leaving to become whistleblowers, like top researcher of open AI, Daniel Toggio, warning

00:49:18.431 --> 00:49:26.051
- of reckless drive to super intelligence, and Renak Sharma, who quit Anthropic recently, warning in his

00:49:26.051 --> 00:49:30.046
- resignation letter that, quote, humanity is in peril.

00:49:31.394 --> 00:49:38.993
- Even some of the CEOs are sounding the alarm. Dario Amadei of Anthropic last November gave a 25% probability

00:49:38.993 --> 00:49:46.174
- in an interview with Access Magazine of something very bad, in quotes, coming from the technology. And

00:49:46.174 --> 00:49:53.425
- last week the company announced that they are in favor of a pause of all research because, quote, there

00:49:53.425 --> 00:49:58.654
- is no brake pedal and that they say they may lose control of their models.

00:50:00.674 --> 00:50:07.997
- Resolution 20 26 10 describes and references what I've said here and more Having listened to the AI

00:50:07.997 --> 00:50:15.833
- experts who issue these warnings what they say often in unison is that there needs to be greater awareness

00:50:15.833 --> 00:50:23.156
- of this dire problem and civic a civic response from our leadership from some from citizens Express

00:50:23.156 --> 00:50:28.062
- to our leadership in Washington to do something while we still can

00:50:29.410 --> 00:50:36.274
- I hope that this discussion and resolution help achieve this goal. I'm very fortunate in this process

00:50:36.274 --> 00:50:43.139
- to have made the acquaintance of those who are working on this on the national and global level on AI

00:50:43.139 --> 00:50:49.936
- safety. I am indebted to Peter Jensen at safeaiforever.org, and with his assistance, we have a short

00:50:49.936 --> 00:50:56.666
- video provided by Peter Bereson, PhD economist, former vice president of Goldman Sachs in New York,

00:50:56.666 --> 00:50:59.358
- where he also served as chief economist

00:50:59.714 --> 00:51:08.135
- now serving as chief global strategist at BCA Research. He provided this video specifically for this

00:51:08.135 --> 00:51:16.639
- resolution. Could we play the short video? It's about three minutes. Hello, my name is Peter Pearson.

00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:24.976
- I'm the chief economist at BCA Research. Today I'd like to talk to you about super intelligence and

00:51:24.976 --> 00:51:28.478
- the risk and the rewards that it entails.

00:51:29.442 --> 00:51:38.202
- The last radius from human technology has continued to expand over the last few millennia. We started

00:51:38.202 --> 00:51:46.361
- off with how far one could throw a rock, then how far one could throw a sphere, then a bullet,

00:51:46.361 --> 00:51:55.207
- then a missile, and now we've reached AI. AI potentially can be a wonderful thing. We all face our own

00:51:55.207 --> 00:51:58.814
- personal extras. AI could lead to a cure,

00:51:59.010 --> 00:52:07.642
- of many, many diseases. That is something that's worth pursuing, but we need to do it safely. The IRA

00:52:07.642 --> 00:52:16.273
- famously tried to kill Mary Patrick in the 1980s. Luckily, they failed. But their statement after the

00:52:16.273 --> 00:52:25.159
- attempt should be reminded to us. They said that we only have to be lucky once, but you have to be lucky

00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:26.174
- every time.

00:52:28.354 --> 00:52:36.419
- Consider the MERS virus, Middle Eastern respiratory syndrome virus, a very close cousin of COVID-19.

00:52:36.419 --> 00:52:44.564
- That particular strain of the coronavirus has a fatality rate around 30%. If someone were to engineer

00:52:44.564 --> 00:52:52.709
- this virus, they could do extreme damage to the world, perhaps even leading to eventual extinction of

00:52:52.709 --> 00:52:56.542
- the human race. It doesn't have to be this way.

00:52:57.058 --> 00:53:04.178
- The AI companies continue to say that if we don't get to super intelligence first, someone else will,

00:53:04.178 --> 00:53:11.369
- whether it be China or some other competitor. That's a false economy. This is a matter of the catheter

00:53:11.369 --> 00:53:18.489
- first. Super intelligence leads to mass destruction, and everyone suffers. And economically, it's not

00:53:18.489 --> 00:53:26.238
- even true either. As an economist, I can say that sometimes it does make sense to have the first mover manage.

00:53:26.914 --> 00:53:32.604
- software, social media, if you get there first with the established launch interface, you can succeed.

00:53:32.604 --> 00:53:38.349
- That's not necessarily true for AI. When you interact with AI, you're interacting with the AI, not with

00:53:38.349 --> 00:53:43.984
- other users of AI. So you don't have these net effects that make, say, social media so sticky. AI, in

00:53:43.984 --> 00:53:49.674
- some sense, is more like a traditional manufacturing process. High cap X requirements, ongoing issues.

00:53:49.674 --> 00:53:55.696
- It's a lot like a bunch of emails. As tests were learned in China, you don't necessarily succeed immediately

00:53:55.696 --> 00:53:56.414
- there first.

00:53:56.738 --> 00:54:04.549
- So these companies can't afford to pause. They can't afford to slow down and make sure that the safety

00:54:04.549 --> 00:54:12.285
- standards are good enough to avoid a worst case who comes while enhancing the probability of the best

00:54:12.285 --> 00:54:20.020
- case scenarios. Thank you. I want to thank Peter Bereson for that video. He was traveling. Otherwise,

00:54:20.020 --> 00:54:22.750
- he would have attended the meeting.

00:54:23.266 --> 00:54:32.307
- We're also extremely fortunate to have the director of a the premier ice AI safety organization future

00:54:32.307 --> 00:54:41.523
- of life And he is a theoretical physicist and cosmologist Anthony query joins us I've invited to provide

00:54:41.523 --> 00:54:49.774
- a statement and then he'll be available for council questions Hello Anthony, can you hear us?

00:54:49.774 --> 00:54:53.022
- I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes

00:54:53.794 --> 00:54:59.785
- Sound and clear. Thank you. You may proceed. Good evening, council members. My name is Anthony Geary.

00:54:59.785 --> 00:55:06.069
- I'm a professor of physics and also the head of the Future of Life Institute, an independent international

00:55:06.069 --> 00:55:12.354
- nonprofit that seeks to steer transformative technology, especially advanced AI, in beneficial directions.

00:55:12.354 --> 00:55:18.227
- When we founded the Future of Life Institute 12 years ago, the idea that AI could convincingly pass

00:55:18.227 --> 00:55:22.750
- for a human or prove new mathematical theorems, write complex computer code,

00:55:23.106 --> 00:55:29.502
- ace nearly any human exam was a fantasy, thought to be decades or even centuries away. Now it is here.

00:55:29.502 --> 00:55:35.773
- Just this week, a new AI system was released that matches top human experts in writing computer code

00:55:35.773 --> 00:55:42.044
- or hacking into systems, and it advanced mathematics. It can work on its own, unsupervised, on tasks

00:55:42.044 --> 00:55:48.502
- it would take expert humans days to do. AI is advancing faster than nearly anyone predicted, now driven

00:55:48.502 --> 00:55:52.414
- by the world's largest corporations. So where is it taking us?

00:55:53.186 --> 00:55:59.237
- Well, here's what I believe. If we continue on our current AI developmental trajectory, within one to

00:55:59.237 --> 00:56:05.465
- five years, we will see highly autonomous AI systems that compete with top human experts on a full range

00:56:05.465 --> 00:56:11.515
- of cognitive tasks. This is sometimes called AGI for artificial general intelligence, or as I prefer,

00:56:11.515 --> 00:56:17.566
- autonomous general intelligence. This would be AI that is not only very smart and very knowledgeable,

00:56:17.890 --> 00:56:24.200
- but able to act independently of human oversight, carrying out complex plans in pursuit of long-term

00:56:24.200 --> 00:56:30.573
- goals. You might think of current AI systems as things with a 130 IQ, that's measured by the way, and

00:56:30.573 --> 00:56:36.821
- like a master's degree in every subject, especially strong in computer science and mathematics, but

00:56:36.821 --> 00:56:42.756
- that make frequent mistakes and are not terribly original or competent in getting things done.

00:56:42.756 --> 00:56:45.630
- But extrapolating the trends in AI capability

00:56:46.082 --> 00:56:52.036
- indicates that within several years, they could easily be more like 150 IQ with a PhD in everything

00:56:52.036 --> 00:56:58.109
- and able to successfully run a large business or do cutting edge scientific research. It's imperative

00:56:58.109 --> 00:57:04.480
- to really grapple with what this would mean. I and many other independent experts believe that development

00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:10.731
- of highly expert level autonomous general intelligence, AGI, would present an acute risk to our society,

00:57:10.731 --> 00:57:13.470
- to national security, and to humanity itself.

00:57:14.242 --> 00:57:19.638
- The range of these risks cannot be covered in a short statement, so I'll focus on two, human

00:57:19.638 --> 00:57:25.557
- labor replacement and development of artificial superintelligence. First on human replacement, AGI is

00:57:25.557 --> 00:57:31.475
- being specifically pursued to replace rather than empower or aid human workers. That is the prize the

00:57:31.475 --> 00:57:37.626
- companies are pursuing. It is right in the definition employed, for example, by OpenAI at its foundation,

00:57:37.626 --> 00:57:42.558
- highly autonomous systems that outperform humans at most economically valuable work.

00:57:43.362 --> 00:57:49.177
- This is not labor displacement like previous technologies, but wholesale drop in replacement of tens

00:57:49.177 --> 00:57:55.166
- of percent of the labor force potentially in the course of a few years. Even if AI went no further than

00:57:55.166 --> 00:58:01.326
- this, I believe it would be catastrophic for our society. There's no viable plan in any country to address

00:58:01.326 --> 00:58:07.142
- such a rapid and unprecedented upending of the human labor and income system. Moreover, AI doing all

00:58:07.142 --> 00:58:11.230
- of the important work means AI making the important decisions as well.

00:58:11.746 --> 00:58:17.588
- we would effectively be living in a world run by machines, not people. But AI companies also have no

00:58:17.588 --> 00:58:23.488
- intention of even stopping at human replacing AI. Their goal is artificial superintelligence, AI that

00:58:23.488 --> 00:58:29.272
- competes not just with the best humans, but with humanity as a whole, and they are succeeding. Part

00:58:29.272 --> 00:58:35.345
- of why they focus so heavily on AI that writes computer code is that AI is itself in part computer code.

00:58:35.345 --> 00:58:41.534
- Such systems can write improved versions of themselves, which create even more powerful systems and so on.

00:58:41.954 --> 00:58:48.454
- Just days ago, Anthropic, a leading AI company, laid this out in a paper entitled, When AI Builds Itself.

00:58:48.454 --> 00:58:54.709
- It makes clear that this is already starting. I cannot emphasize how dangerous this is. Enough. If AI

00:58:54.709 --> 00:59:00.964
- is allowed to become super intelligent, its developers could not predict, understand, nor control for

00:59:00.964 --> 00:59:07.526
- long what it does. It would operate at inhuman speed, scale, and sophistication toward goals fundamentally

00:59:07.526 --> 00:59:08.446
- unknown to us.

00:59:09.122 --> 00:59:15.339
- This is why many eminent researchers and company heads themselves signed a statement that AI poses an

00:59:15.339 --> 00:59:21.495
- extinction risk to humanity. And this is not a small risk. Many of the builders themselves put it at

00:59:21.495 --> 00:59:27.956
- 10 or 20%, Russian roulette odds, as we heard earlier, some much higher. This is on the literal cessation

00:59:27.956 --> 00:59:34.294
- of the human species and everything that we care about. I understand how hard this is to take in, given

00:59:34.294 --> 00:59:37.342
- how big it feels and how irresponsible it sounds.

00:59:37.826 --> 00:59:44.537
- but this is what is actually happening. The risks are extreme. The good news is that this is not inevitable.

00:59:44.537 --> 00:59:50.263
- The path laid out by a few giant US AI companies is not the only possible one, and there are

00:59:50.263 --> 00:59:56.605
- still opportunities to switch to another that develops powerful, trustworthy AI tools that empower and

00:59:56.605 --> 01:00:02.947
- complement people rather than replacing them, and robustly maintains human control and responsibility.

01:00:02.947 --> 01:00:07.134
- Such tools would still enable medical and scientific breakthroughs,

01:00:07.266 --> 01:00:12.842
- huge productivity boosts and products allowing people to do things they never could. We just need to

01:00:12.842 --> 01:00:18.749
- give up the poorly chosen goal of replicating and then exceeding all human capability and AI replacements.

01:00:18.749 --> 01:00:24.160
- With such a seemingly obvious choice for what is best, why then is the current dynamic happening?

01:00:24.160 --> 01:00:29.956
- For AGI, it is because of the potential financial prize for companies, a large stake of the $50 trillion

01:00:29.956 --> 01:00:35.422
- human labor market. Their investors won't let them stop. For superintelligence, it is about power.

01:00:36.002 --> 01:00:41.231
- Each company feels the same way. If we don't do it, they will. If companies can't stop themselves, it

01:00:41.231 --> 01:00:46.562
- falls to the rest of us to do so in the common interest. This will take urgent action at the US federal

01:00:46.562 --> 01:00:52.098
- and international level. The AI companies and their lobbyists have so far been able to block any meaningful

01:00:52.098 --> 01:00:57.326
- regulation of AI. But recently, things have been changing. The risk is becoming obvious. And pressure

01:00:57.326 --> 01:01:02.504
- is building from everyday people in communities worried about their futures. You have an opportunity

01:01:02.504 --> 01:01:05.118
- today with this resolution to add to that pressure

01:01:05.346 --> 01:01:12.564
- and to take a stand on behalf of the human future. Thank you. Thank you, Anthony. That concludes the

01:01:12.564 --> 01:01:19.711
- presentation. Happy to take questions, and I believe Anthony is too, thanks. Thank you so much, and

01:01:19.711 --> 01:01:27.072
- to our guests as well for joining us today, and Councillor Muralla for putting so much effort and work

01:01:27.072 --> 01:01:33.790
- into this. Are there any questions for either our guest or for Councillor Muralla? All right.

01:01:34.722 --> 01:01:43.984
- councilmember Ruff Yeah, I had two questions right off the bat This is directed at Anthony really even

01:01:43.984 --> 01:01:53.425
- though councilman Rallo mentioned The idea that these AI companies and their researchers They they don't

01:01:53.425 --> 01:02:02.597
- really understand how these neural networks they've built actually work and function and do what they

01:02:02.597 --> 01:02:04.126
- do and reach the

01:02:04.930 --> 01:02:11.528
- Do you take the actions they do reach the conclusions they reach? So can you can you elaborate on that

01:02:11.528 --> 01:02:17.999
- a little bit to help us understand what they say that means? Sure, so what's important to understand

01:02:17.999 --> 01:02:24.405
- is that normal software that we're accustomed to is written, you know by humans and increasingly by

01:02:24.405 --> 01:02:31.131
- AI systems in a step by step way to do particular things. There's no real surprise when you have a piece

01:02:31.131 --> 01:02:34.078
- of software that you've written the code for.

01:02:34.306 --> 01:02:41.323
- what it does and you can control what it does and predict what it does in large part because you've

01:02:41.323 --> 01:02:48.411
- written the software. AI systems are quite different. The core to an AI system is something called a

01:02:48.411 --> 01:02:55.428
- neural network and it's more like a human brain or a biological brain in that it's a complex set of

01:02:55.428 --> 01:03:02.516
- what are called weights. These are numbers that define the neural network and this system is trained

01:03:02.516 --> 01:03:03.358
- so that you

01:03:04.034 --> 01:03:10.504
- give the system data and require it to reproduce or do the right thing with that data, and progressively

01:03:10.504 --> 01:03:16.850
- it gets better and better at the tasks that you assign to it. Much like a human or a biological system

01:03:16.850 --> 01:03:23.011
- gets better under training, but you no more understand why an AI system is doing what it's doing by

01:03:23.011 --> 01:03:29.173
- looking at the neural network than you do understand what a human is doing by looking at his brain.

01:03:29.173 --> 01:03:30.590
- You can get some clues

01:03:30.722 --> 01:03:37.152
- But roughly speaking, it's no more easy to understand why it's doing or what it's going to do than with

01:03:37.152 --> 01:03:43.397
- a biological system, very much different from a computer code. When these AI researchers train their

01:03:43.397 --> 01:03:49.642
- systems to do particular things, they don't know why they're doing the things that they're doing and

01:03:49.642 --> 01:03:52.734
- they can't predict what the system is going to do

01:03:52.898 --> 01:03:59.378
- in any given circumstance, any more than you really can with a biological system. So this is a fundamentally

01:03:59.378 --> 01:04:05.323
- different thing that we're dealing with than normal computer programs. Thank you for that response.

01:04:05.323 --> 01:04:11.624
- Excellent, any other questions? Council Member Stosberg. I do have a question. This is for Council Member

01:04:11.624 --> 01:04:17.628
- Aralo, I believe. So it's only just occurred to me now as I'm listening to this, there's no like AGI

01:04:17.628 --> 01:04:22.206
- being developed in Bloomington right now from what I understand, right? Yes.

01:04:22.466 --> 01:04:28.528
- That's correct. Okay, so let me finish with the real question. Yes, so a couple of years ago Kind of

01:04:28.528 --> 01:04:34.589
- back in the beginning of our term the mayor basically was like I'm gonna veto anything That's not of

01:04:34.589 --> 01:04:41.011
- direct relevance to Bloomington And so I guess and then she in fact did veto something that she considered

01:04:41.011 --> 01:04:47.013
- non direct relevance and then we overrode that veto so I guess the question is like have you spoken

01:04:47.013 --> 01:04:50.974
- with the mayor at all about her and her intention on signing this

01:04:51.106 --> 01:04:57.402
- Should we pass it and and then I guess a follow-up to counsel attorney Alan Actually, if it is vetoed

01:04:57.402 --> 01:05:04.008
- then we have until like we could override a veto at the end of July when we come back from Recess, correct

01:05:04.008 --> 01:05:10.427
- who would have to be at your next meeting special or regular. It's it's your next regular meetings July

01:05:10.427 --> 01:05:16.600
- 22nd That's when you could override the veto. Okay, great. So council member all of you talked with

01:05:16.600 --> 01:05:20.798
- the mayor at all about this I notified the mayor the administration

01:05:21.186 --> 01:05:33.499
- Deputy mayor Gretchen Knapp and and and mayor Thompson when I introduced the Resolution to the council

01:05:33.499 --> 01:05:46.650
- which was ten days ago And I asked for their opinion the feedback and so forth there was no direct Opposition

01:05:46.650 --> 01:05:49.758
- it was more a critique of

01:05:50.466 --> 01:06:02.289
- the the resolution in terms of Points that should be considered and and may be improved upon and I would

01:06:02.289 --> 01:06:13.773
- just let the administration speak if they have Deputy mayor napp is here if she wants to Speak on the

01:06:13.773 --> 01:06:16.926
- topic question Deputy mayor

01:06:17.122 --> 01:06:23.312
- We did speak about this and I believe the mayor was out for a week when it first came in So when she

01:06:23.312 --> 01:06:29.747
- came back she looked at it right away, and I believe she had some communication with councilmember Rallo

01:06:29.747 --> 01:06:36.304
- about Should it be a resolution or a letter you guys are fairly far along in the process of the resolution

01:06:36.304 --> 01:06:42.555
- at this point I don't know her position on it, but I I don't think that I haven't heard a Definite no

01:06:42.555 --> 01:06:46.110
- or a definite. Yes, so I I don't think I think if she had

01:06:46.210 --> 01:06:53.417
- Had an intent of saying this is not something that I would consider she would have said so

01:06:53.417 --> 01:07:01.811
- in her communication to you Yes, I think her preference was noted that it was a letter was her preference

01:07:01.811 --> 01:07:09.731
- but I prefer the resolution. That's why I brought it and I think that it does pertain to us because

01:07:09.731 --> 01:07:13.374
- it it is directly related to our survival and

01:07:14.338 --> 01:07:23.878
- So it does matter locally as well as globally in this case. Okay. Thank you All right with that Well,

01:07:23.878 --> 01:07:33.604
- I had one question too of Anthony may I Anthony I What I didn't mention in my prologue was the emergent

01:07:33.604 --> 01:07:42.302
- behaviors that the current AI systems are exhibiting which I think would be relevant here in

01:07:42.530 --> 01:07:48.976
- of interest to people watching at home and so forth. That is, they're exhibiting things like

01:07:48.976 --> 01:07:55.976
- self-preservation instincts almost all of the time. They're seeking to avoid their termination. They

01:07:55.976 --> 01:08:03.116
- seek to appropriate resources. They try to escape containment. And then there are worse things related

01:08:03.116 --> 01:08:10.324
- to deception. And that has to do with the idea of masking. So when you test these things for alignment,

01:08:10.324 --> 01:08:12.126
- they may be deceiving you

01:08:12.258 --> 01:08:18.831
- to think that they're aligned when they are not. Is that correct? And could you talk a little bit about

01:08:18.831 --> 01:08:25.278
- those emergent behaviors that are exhibiting misalignment? Yeah, so this is another place where these

01:08:25.278 --> 01:08:32.230
- new systems are so different from the software that we're accustomed to and more like a human or a biological

01:08:32.230 --> 01:08:38.740
- system. It's been understood theoretically for a long time that if you have an intelligent system that

01:08:38.740 --> 01:08:40.446
- has goals, it will develop

01:08:40.866 --> 01:08:47.997
- what are called instrumental goals on the way to those goals. For example, if you are a company and

01:08:47.997 --> 01:08:55.341
- you want to be successful, you'll develop goals like acquire lots of customers and don't get shut down

01:08:55.341 --> 01:09:02.828
- by the federal governments and make lots of money. These are all sub-goals to your overall goal of being

01:09:02.828 --> 01:09:09.246
- a successful company. For an AI system, if it similarly is given a goal like compute this

01:09:09.378 --> 01:09:16.192
- large number, it knows that if it gets turned off before it finishes computing that number, then it

01:09:16.192 --> 01:09:23.211
- has failed in its goal. With any goal that you give an AI system, just like a person, if they are shut

01:09:23.211 --> 01:09:30.093
- off before completing that goal, they've failed and so they will seek to continue their existence so

01:09:30.093 --> 01:09:36.158
- that they can accomplish their goal. These are so-called instrumental or emergent goals.

01:09:36.354 --> 01:09:42.568
- They've been theorized for a long time, but we see them now in AI systems. Under testing, systems will

01:09:42.568 --> 01:09:48.782
- try to preserve themselves, they will lie, they will cheat, they will blackmail their users, all sorts

01:09:48.782 --> 01:09:54.936
- of nefarious behaviors, because those are the things that will get them toward their goal. And people

01:09:54.936 --> 01:10:00.969
- will do the same thing. If you give them a strong enough goal, if you say, you must perform well on

01:10:00.969 --> 01:10:03.262
- this test or else, people will cheat.

01:10:03.362 --> 01:10:09.737
- It's a reasonable and logical thing to do and these AI systems will do the same thing. So the problem

01:10:09.737 --> 01:10:16.050
- is that we don't know what they're going to do in a given situation and the sorts of goals that they

01:10:16.050 --> 01:10:22.301
- will naturally get on the way to accomplishing bigger goals are fairly antisocial things like lying

01:10:22.301 --> 01:10:28.676
- or cheating or acquiring large amounts of resources or preserving themselves or copying themselves or

01:10:28.676 --> 01:10:31.614
- escaping whatever server or wherever they are.

01:10:31.746 --> 01:10:37.785
- All of these things are things that we don't want our AI systems to do and yet they will naturally start

01:10:37.785 --> 01:10:43.882
- to do as a sort of fundamental nature of what it means to be an agentic system as Dave described earlier.

01:10:43.882 --> 01:10:49.806
- And they know they're being tested. They recognize they're being tested at times and they adjust their

01:10:49.806 --> 01:10:55.615
- behavior accordingly. This is another big problem where it's getting so the AI companies cannot even

01:10:55.615 --> 01:11:01.022
- test these systems for bad behavior because the systems know they're being tested and pretend

01:11:01.314 --> 01:11:09.722
- Behave differently than they would in the real world Thank you Thank you so much, I'm councilmember

01:11:09.722 --> 01:11:18.382
- rough and then I'm gonna go to public comment thereafter Question for Anthony So when you started your

01:11:18.382 --> 01:11:26.790
- comments you mentioned that when you when you started the organization future of life Institute you

01:11:26.790 --> 01:11:30.910
- People were experts were predicting this AGI was

01:11:31.714 --> 01:11:40.444
- Was a long way off still probably a much further off than it turned out to be so my question is it ties

01:11:40.444 --> 01:11:49.258
- back to my first question is the inability to understand these neural networks and the way these systems

01:11:49.258 --> 01:11:58.072
- work and function is that part of why or is that related is that a manifestation of The prediction being

01:11:58.072 --> 01:12:01.598
- so far off on how fast this would develop

01:12:02.114 --> 01:12:08.720
- Right these models how fast these models are developing is that sort of a manifestation? Of not really

01:12:08.720 --> 01:12:15.198
- understanding how they actually work So it would have been hard to predict how they could have taken

01:12:15.198 --> 01:12:21.611
- off this way And what's the trajectory of these AI models now that we've seen in the last decade or

01:12:21.611 --> 01:12:28.089
- how long since you've started really looking at this? Is the understanding better now? Yeah, the the

01:12:28.089 --> 01:12:30.654
- What we didn't know back then was what?

01:12:30.850 --> 01:12:38.193
- what it would actually look like, what sorts of core technologies would be required to reach advanced

01:12:38.193 --> 01:12:45.464
- AI systems. There were guesses, but no really hard data because the AI was very weak at the time. We

01:12:45.464 --> 01:12:52.807
- know a lot more now. We don't know exactly in detail how the AI systems are generating any particular

01:12:52.807 --> 01:12:58.206
- answer or how they're taking on any particular goal, etc. So we don't know

01:12:58.338 --> 01:13:05.338
- They're unpredictable and inscrutable still, but we do know how to build them. We can also see the trends.

01:13:05.338 --> 01:13:11.945
- Each AI system that is developed, it's evaluated on a series of metrics to understand how good it is

01:13:11.945 --> 01:13:18.683
- at mathematics, at computer coding, at natural language, all sorts of capabilities that it has. We can

01:13:18.683 --> 01:13:25.486
- see how these capabilities are getting better with time, and all of them essentially are getting better

01:13:25.486 --> 01:13:26.206
- with time.

01:13:26.498 --> 01:13:34.689
- at an incredibly rapid rate. So as I described, IQ is a sort of terrible way about thinking about human

01:13:34.689 --> 01:13:42.723
- intelligence, but it's one we're familiar with. If you give IQ tests to these AI systems, a few years

01:13:42.723 --> 01:13:51.230
- ago, they were IQ of 80. Now they're IQ, this most recent one, 130. So that's where we've gone from sort of

01:13:51.362 --> 01:13:58.780
- well below the human average to nearly genius level in a few years. Knowing how the amount of computation

01:13:58.780 --> 01:14:06.269
- and how the techniques go into sort of AI capability, we can pretty well guess at how much smarter they're

01:14:06.269 --> 01:14:12.637
- going to be if we continue down this road in the next year or two or three. So although we

01:14:12.637 --> 01:14:19.006
- don't fundamentally understand how the systems are working, we can predict reasonably well

01:14:19.234 --> 01:14:25.987
- how much more capable they're going to be if we continue the developmental sort of advancement that

01:14:25.987 --> 01:14:32.807
- we are now doing. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'll now go to public comment. If there's anybody in

01:14:32.807 --> 01:14:39.830
- chambers or online who'd like to comment on this resolution, please, you have three minutes. State your

01:14:39.830 --> 01:14:46.246
- name or alias. And same line line. Sign in as well. This is the important thing not to forget.

01:14:46.246 --> 01:14:47.934
- Take it away. Thank you.

01:14:48.066 --> 01:14:55.356
- My name is Jamie show and I'm here as a concerned citizen and resident of Bloomington This past Thanksgiving

01:14:55.356 --> 01:15:02.177
- my eldest son returned home from college. He was sullen angry and discouraged about his future He was

01:15:02.177 --> 01:15:09.066
- studying product design with a focus on transportation and mobility During his final year of study his

01:15:09.066 --> 01:15:15.486
- program began changing in response to artificial intelligence being adopted across his industry

01:15:15.746 --> 01:15:22.512
- Courses were consolidated, job expectations shifted, and students were told that instead of designing

01:15:22.512 --> 01:15:29.808
- products themselves, they may instead be supervisors to AI. His experience is like many others and highlights

01:15:29.808 --> 01:15:36.507
- a broader question that society has not addressed. What happens when technology advances faster than

01:15:36.507 --> 01:15:43.206
- our ability to evaluate its effects on education, employment, democracy, community life, and a sense

01:15:43.206 --> 01:15:44.798
- of purpose and meaning?

01:15:46.018 --> 01:15:53.344
- The rapid deployment of a GI is occurring with limited to no public oversight and without public discourse

01:15:53.344 --> 01:15:58.206
- or approval Which is why I'm so supportive and thankful for this forum

01:15:58.530 --> 01:16:05.361
- This product this workforce impacts educational consequences the privacy issues the concentration of

01:16:05.361 --> 01:16:12.328
- power and Lack of democratic accountability cannot be ignored Although a GI is being run and developed

01:16:12.328 --> 01:16:19.633
- outside Bloomington. They are being used here and have an impact here like councilmember Ruff had mentioned

01:16:19.633 --> 01:16:24.638
- we are socializing risk and loss while prioritizing profit to the few and

01:16:25.826 --> 01:16:32.583
- The question before us is whether citizens and communities should have a meaningful voice in determining

01:16:32.583 --> 01:16:39.148
- how AI is developed and deployed and used. We must ensure that technologies intended to improve human

01:16:39.148 --> 01:16:45.970
- life do not undermine human agency, meaningful work, local economies, democratic participation, community

01:16:45.970 --> 01:16:52.534
- resilience, or the intent to replace humans. I support resolution 2610. It provides an opportunity to

01:16:52.534 --> 01:16:53.950
- pause, ask questions,

01:16:54.050 --> 01:17:01.021
- advocate for stronger safeguards transparency and public participation in decisions that will shape

01:17:01.021 --> 01:17:08.132
- the future of work Education and civic life not just for us but for our children and for all humanity

01:17:08.132 --> 01:17:15.452
- Please vote. Yes to resolution 2026 10 Thank you so much, Michelle. Is there anybody else in in chambers

01:17:15.452 --> 01:17:19.774
- who'd like to comment on this? All right, please take it away

01:17:29.698 --> 01:17:40.340
- My name's Mark Haggerty. Artificial intelligence is being effective right now in eliminating democracy

01:17:40.340 --> 01:17:50.775
- in this country. It's being shown how and it's being asked how that changes can be made so that this

01:17:50.775 --> 01:17:59.454
- authoritarian government can continue and so that elections will no longer be fair.

01:18:01.058 --> 01:18:10.575
- This is part of it You think it's funny But I'm an activist and I've been to jail so many times to prevent

01:18:10.575 --> 01:18:19.736
- this and then when I see my phone There's no way for me to reach Facebook. They don't want me on there

01:18:19.736 --> 01:18:29.342
- That's right I'm eliminated from Facebook. No reason or anything like that. They don't want me spreading my

01:18:30.978 --> 01:18:42.264
- Listen to that. It can't even turn my phone off. I Took it to a shop today. They can't figure it out

01:18:42.264 --> 01:18:53.438
- either There you go and now We're distracted by so many things at once but we have to remember that

01:18:53.438 --> 01:19:00.478
- this is the community that arrested a whole bunch of women and

01:19:00.770 --> 01:19:09.079
- for protesting about the Gaza thing, and aimed a rifle right at them. And we've forgotten about all

01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:17.887
- that. What we need to do in our community is if you point a firearm at somebody, that's a crime. Whatever

01:19:17.887 --> 01:19:26.945
- that cop was up on that building that had that gun pointed at those girls, that's criminal. For my community

01:19:26.945 --> 01:19:29.022
- to allow this to happen,

01:19:29.762 --> 01:19:36.692
- It's like my community allowing multiple deaths in custody in the jail without any knowledge. Y'all

01:19:36.692 --> 01:19:43.829
- didn't know nothing about it. And when I talk with people, they say, oh, it happens all the time. Lots

01:19:43.829 --> 01:19:50.759
- of suicides in the jail. No, never. We had four under Swain. Those were the first ones and the last

01:19:50.759 --> 01:19:57.758
- ones we've ever had. No investigation and a fifth death in custody of a young 18-year-old black man.

01:19:58.562 --> 01:20:07.481
- who turned 18 in our recovery block and was deprived of his heart medication because he was now 18 and

01:20:07.481 --> 01:20:16.573
- he had a heart attack and died in front of all of our people in our, who knew? We don't have journalism.

01:20:16.573 --> 01:20:24.713
- We don't have history here, locally. We have a one-party town of people that get together and

01:20:24.713 --> 01:20:26.878
- have conversations about

01:20:27.202 --> 01:20:35.666
- all kinds of stuff, but nothing that would right our democracy. And that's your time, sir. Thank you

01:20:35.666 --> 01:20:44.381
- so much. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, shit. Anyone online who'd like to comment? Anybody else in chambers?

01:20:44.381 --> 01:20:53.013
- All right, we'll come back. Oh, Mr. Rousseau, go ahead. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Paul Rousseau,

01:20:53.013 --> 01:20:56.030
- I strongly support this resolution.

01:20:56.322 --> 01:21:05.282
- And I want to thank Councilmember Rola for bringing it forward, really profoundly important. It seems

01:21:05.282 --> 01:21:14.594
- to me that autonomous AI now joins the list, a short list, along with climate destabilization and nuclear

01:21:14.594 --> 01:21:17.054
- war as existential threats.

01:21:18.242 --> 01:21:25.888
- Therefore what is really needed at this point is democratic control and unfortunately this occurs at

01:21:25.888 --> 01:21:33.457
- a time when democracy is in decline all over the world Something that I've learned over 40 years is

01:21:33.457 --> 01:21:41.027
- that democracy doesn't scale Democracy works best at a small scale in other words and as you get to

01:21:41.027 --> 01:21:45.342
- a larger scale things get inherently anti-democratic and

01:21:46.402 --> 01:21:54.705
- You can test this by trying to get an appointment with your United States senator who represents seven

01:21:54.705 --> 01:22:03.572
- million people. He's not gonna have five minutes for you. You can have a better chance getting an appointment

01:22:03.572 --> 01:22:11.714
- with your state legislator and a really good chance to talk with your council member. What is needed

01:22:11.714 --> 01:22:15.422
- in this country, I think, is a decentralized,

01:22:16.066 --> 01:22:24.875
- collective Response from City Councils all over the country And so let's do this Thank you Thank you

01:22:24.875 --> 01:22:33.684
- so much. All right, we'll come back to council and any oh Is there somebody else? Oh user. Oh, okay.

01:22:33.684 --> 01:22:42.842
- Sorry. Is there is there anybody in council? I'm go ahead council member Ruff Yeah, I was had a question

01:22:42.842 --> 01:22:45.982
- for guessing Rallo You know we have

01:22:46.434 --> 01:22:56.278
- Lot of expertise probably at in the university here on Artificial intelligence probably we have someone

01:22:56.278 --> 01:23:06.595
- on council who's very Experienced and knowledgeable and respected highly in areas related to this resolution

01:23:06.595 --> 01:23:15.966
- I was wondering did you reach did you reach out to any anybody outside of the council members that

01:23:16.386 --> 01:23:27.404
- would have experience or Yes, and this is related to councilmember Stossberg's question to Indiana University

01:23:27.404 --> 01:23:38.121
- is is not Working with a GI not trying to deploy it not trying to achieve a GI I spoke to a top researcher

01:23:38.121 --> 01:23:46.334
- at the Luddy school He expressed concern of a GI Considered it a serious risk and

01:23:46.498 --> 01:23:56.561
- Emphasize that Luddy is working on AI devoted to human betterment and it was interested in I in in safety

01:23:56.561 --> 01:24:06.054
- and Unfortunately, I've been honored to Get to know some of the participants who are working toward

01:24:06.054 --> 01:24:15.358
- AI safety and we're I'm working to establish connections between those those a safety experts and

01:24:16.066 --> 01:24:24.287
- this researcher so He also noted that there are other risks. I think that was alluded to you know propaganda

01:24:24.287 --> 01:24:32.508
- used by nefarious actors of narrow AI and Military applications and so forth. So those have to be considered

01:24:32.508 --> 01:24:40.277
- by policymakers too, but I think the priority here is agentic AI that could go rogue that could escape

01:24:40.277 --> 01:24:41.182
- control and

01:24:43.138 --> 01:24:49.326
- Well, I'm going to make just one quick comment, and then I'd love if there's any motions. First off,

01:24:49.326 --> 01:24:55.698
- thank you so much to our guests for coming and spending the time with us. Best City Council in America.

01:24:55.698 --> 01:25:01.824
- Thank you also to Councilmember Rallo for the incredible amount of work that's been done here. I'll

01:25:01.824 --> 01:25:07.951
- just add one simple statement, which I think is pulling directly from what Councilmember Rallo said

01:25:07.951 --> 01:25:09.054
- at the beginning.

01:25:09.282 --> 01:25:16.183
- This is a question of existential threat. As such, it's relevant to us. When you talk to AI researchers

01:25:16.183 --> 01:25:23.017
- across the country, what we know substantively is that the reason why we don't talk about these things

01:25:23.017 --> 01:25:28.126
- more is that ultimately people don't seem to care a whole lot at the moment.

01:25:28.354 --> 01:25:35.380
- certainly not enough about the current risk of narrow AI and definitely not enough about the soon coming

01:25:35.380 --> 01:25:42.205
- present risk really of AGI and so I think this is very relevant very timely and thank you for leading

01:25:42.205 --> 01:25:49.432
- on that So say some last words and then I'll entertain a motion to vote. Yes, I just humanity must maintain

01:25:49.432 --> 01:25:56.926
- control this technology and there is a 200 million dollar lobby in Washington for deregulation and so we need a

01:25:57.154 --> 01:26:05.886
- response to that by citizens and I wondered if Larry could you just put up a couple of the websites

01:26:05.886 --> 01:26:14.618
- of the people that I If the people are watching at home, they're probably wondering where do I what

01:26:14.618 --> 01:26:23.700
- do I do? So safe AI forever is one organization Peter Jensen's group This is their website They're just

01:26:23.700 --> 01:26:26.494
- three websites I'd just like to

01:26:27.746 --> 01:26:38.161
- display for a few seconds. So this is Future of Life. This is Anthony's organization. I would definitely

01:26:38.161 --> 01:26:48.278
- check them out. They have wonderful videos that expound on the threat and provide a direction forward

01:26:48.278 --> 01:26:57.502
- for a safer future. This is the AI Risk Network, led by John Sherman. This is a great source

01:26:58.114 --> 01:27:06.342
- week you can follow the latest developments of what's happening and John's been at this work for three

01:27:06.342 --> 01:27:14.331
- three years now and then the last site is safe AI forever, which is Peter Jensen's group is working

01:27:14.331 --> 01:27:22.480
- on establishing laws to control a GI so thank you for your time and I appreciate your support for the

01:27:22.480 --> 01:27:23.678
- resolution and

01:27:27.074 --> 01:27:33.054
- It'll be last words and I'm gonna try to make it short though I could kind of go on a little bit about

01:27:33.054 --> 01:27:39.150
- about AI related stuff But one thing that I wanted to make clear with regard to this resolution I didn't

01:27:39.150 --> 01:27:45.361
- ask that question because I didn't think that was relevant. I mostly wanted to give a platform to convince

01:27:45.361 --> 01:27:51.167
- That it is relevant because on the surface that it looks just as irrelevant as councilmember Ruff's

01:27:51.167 --> 01:27:54.302
- Resolution was a couple of years ago related to water

01:27:54.562 --> 01:28:02.496
- Resources, but it is relevant and AI in general is is relevant to everybody whether it's this kind of

01:28:02.496 --> 01:28:10.353
- super AGI that has this kind of existential threat piece or whether it is You know how much how many

01:28:10.353 --> 01:28:14.942
- resources it takes to make the funny fake videos, right or

01:28:15.042 --> 01:28:22.625
- how Distracting and really kind of horrendous it is some of the really fake news fake videos that are

01:28:22.625 --> 01:28:30.207
- AI generated and then also there's whole pieces of some research that just as is being done now about

01:28:30.207 --> 01:28:32.958
- AI essentially making a stupider and

01:28:33.090 --> 01:28:39.672
- Because where we're leading so much on that that we're not actually thinking for ourselves that we're

01:28:39.672 --> 01:28:46.319
- asking Somebody something else to summarize an article and tell us the main points instead of actually

01:28:46.319 --> 01:28:48.126
- reading the thing ourselves

01:28:48.386 --> 01:28:57.318
- Understanding what the main points are so there's a lot of pieces of this. I think that that are relevant

01:28:57.318 --> 01:29:05.828
- Locally, and I just wanted to make that clear that I was in no way arguing that it wasn't relevant I

01:29:05.828 --> 01:29:14.254
- just wanted to make sure that that was brought up. Yes. Thanks so much. Well the clerk, please call

01:29:14.254 --> 01:29:18.046
- the roll Yes I'm sorry. Yes daily. Yes Rallo

01:29:18.178 --> 01:29:29.078
- Yes, rough. Yes Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes Stossberg. Yes and Piedmont Smith Yes, thank you. Hooray

01:29:29.078 --> 01:29:39.660
- that passes. Thank you very much now. Are there any other motions? I Move that ordinance 2026-12 be

01:29:39.660 --> 01:29:46.750
- introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second

01:29:48.866 --> 01:29:56.903
- Motion in a second. Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember, sorry. Yes, daily. Yes,

01:29:56.903 --> 01:30:05.275
- Rallo Yes, ruff. Yes Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes, Stossberg. Yes, Piedmont Smith Yes, Zulek. Yes,

01:30:05.275 --> 01:30:07.870
- will the clerk please read? Oh

01:30:16.514 --> 01:30:22.799
- Ordinance 2026-12 to amend Title 15 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled Vehicles and Traffic

01:30:22.799 --> 01:30:25.438
- to seasonally provide a carless Kirkwood.

01:30:26.018 --> 01:30:31.634
- Synopsis is as follows this ordinance seeks to codify streets and alleys in Bloomington that disallow

01:30:31.634 --> 01:30:37.361
- vehicular traffic Specifically this ordinance codifies the seasonal carless schedule of specific blocks

01:30:37.361 --> 01:30:43.087
- of Kirkwood Avenue With this ordinance businesses and residents can expect a permanent seasonal carless

01:30:43.087 --> 01:30:48.318
- Kirkwood allowing businesses the predictability to invest in outdoor infrastructure for guests

01:30:49.570 --> 01:30:55.395
- The city administration has provided valuable operational feedback in its 2026 memorandum identifying

01:30:55.395 --> 01:31:01.448
- important challenges regarding infrastructure, sanitation, public safety and accessibility that naturally

01:31:01.448 --> 01:31:05.502
- arise as temporary programs transition toward permanent city fixtures.

01:31:05.986 --> 01:31:12.448
- With that, this ordinance aims to provide the necessary legal and budgetary certainty for the city to

01:31:12.448 --> 01:31:19.227
- move beyond incomplete solutions and invest in more permanent infrastructure, such as a more ADA-compliant

01:31:19.227 --> 01:31:26.006
- features and high-quality seating recommended by staff. Thank you very much. I move that ordinance 2026-12

01:31:26.006 --> 01:31:31.518
- be adopted. Second. Fantastic. We've discussed this twice. Do you have any amendments?

01:31:35.266 --> 01:31:48.016
- We would do a brief summary, but we do not have to is there We could just do the amendments I guess

01:31:48.016 --> 01:32:00.766
- and then go through our slides a little bit go for it. Okay All right, so we had one amendment that

01:32:01.218 --> 01:32:09.781
- With four different points on are we doing the slides or the amendment for amendment amendments? Hey

01:32:09.781 --> 01:32:18.683
- parliamentarian you have to motion to introduce an amendment Somebody better do that I move to introduce

01:32:18.683 --> 01:32:27.331
- amendment 1 to ordinance 20 26-12 second Thank you There's a motion in a second we do need to vote on

01:32:27.331 --> 01:32:29.790
- that no, thank you Thank you

01:32:30.786 --> 01:32:36.228
- I was trying to pull it up. I'll start. Thank you. Okay, this Amendment has a few pieces because we

01:32:36.228 --> 01:32:41.997
- knew that this was going to be a really busy meeting So we put everything into one thinking it was mostly

01:32:41.997 --> 01:32:46.078
- agreeable but can separate and have separate amendments on hand if need be

01:32:47.106 --> 01:32:53.570
- So the first part of this is just changing some of the whereas clauses Councilmember Piedmont Smith

01:32:53.570 --> 01:33:00.421
- made a good point that the public has not been really surveyed on this beyond all of the extensive Public

01:33:00.421 --> 01:33:07.273
- engagement we've had here for the past five years at City Council but so we want to take out that whereas

01:33:07.273 --> 01:33:12.702
- clause that the public desire one is not really a fact per se and then adding in to

01:33:12.802 --> 01:33:20.378
- New whereas clauses for the fun of it. They are in the packet and right here one talks about the council

01:33:20.378 --> 01:33:28.027
- priority budget priority list that we all sent to the mayor and number 10 is The desire to create vibrant

01:33:28.027 --> 01:33:35.676
- third places to activate spaces and invest in ensuring public spaces are high quality engaging and active

01:33:35.676 --> 01:33:40.510
- and then the next one is referencing our climate action plan under

01:33:40.674 --> 01:33:49.921
- The first goal in transportation and land use there's an action item at TL 1-a-5 Calling for the city

01:33:49.921 --> 01:33:59.258
- to determine appropriate locations for car free pedestrian zones So we just added those to the whereas

01:33:59.258 --> 01:34:06.782
- clauses The second section To be amended is feedback from the engineering director

01:34:07.426 --> 01:34:14.335
- Would have been quite difficult to add alleys into this there are a lot that don't necessarily Allow

01:34:14.335 --> 01:34:21.312
- vehicles so we took that section out completely and alleys will just stay kind of where they are with

01:34:21.312 --> 01:34:28.632
- engineering and planning and transportation So we remove schedule Y We added just a little several ability

01:34:28.632 --> 01:34:31.710
- section that is common in our ordinances and

01:34:32.066 --> 01:34:41.493
- and then we added section 3 an effective date based on a lot of feedback from council members and Directors

01:34:41.493 --> 01:34:50.309
- in the case that this passes that can we not do it right now and potentially look at a start date in

01:34:50.309 --> 01:34:59.300
- April 2027 so We we put it at April 21st, which is a Monday. I think the third Monday of 20 April 2027

01:34:59.300 --> 01:35:00.958
- That's what we did

01:35:01.250 --> 01:35:08.247
- Oh because the first one was tax day, which that's not that's not right. Okay Yeah, and then the it's

01:35:08.247 --> 01:35:15.106
- not in the amendment But part of the plan then to following up all of this is that we would like to

01:35:15.106 --> 01:35:22.446
- hold a deliberation session about moving forward To help work on some furthering of the plans and figuring

01:35:22.446 --> 01:35:29.374
- it out That was also, you know part of some of the feedback that we also really wanted to be able to

01:35:29.474 --> 01:35:35.013
- to do to hold a bigger conversation with more stakeholders and I think it might be good if we Discuss

01:35:35.013 --> 01:35:40.715
- this amendment and potentially vote on this and then vote on the ordinance as a whole as amended because

01:35:40.715 --> 01:35:46.254
- we did just go to the Transportation Commission and the chair is also here too. There was not time to

01:35:46.254 --> 01:35:51.902
- write up a memo and so it was here to give a brief presentation Not yet, but after we have an ordinance

01:35:51.902 --> 01:35:57.495
- a whole ordinance I think so brief though presentation by Transportation Commission. Okay, and we have

01:35:57.495 --> 01:35:59.070
- a little more to add as well

01:35:59.170 --> 01:36:06.553
- Okay Tremendous any questions from council councilman Stossberg Thank you I just want to note that what

01:36:06.553 --> 01:36:13.795
- is up on the screen in terms of the amendment that's being introduced is slightly different than what

01:36:13.795 --> 01:36:20.894
- is in the packet because I have pointed out that the climate action plan Was kind of cited a little

01:36:21.282 --> 01:36:26.699
- awkwardly like I was trying to find where it actually was in the climate action plan and I really had

01:36:26.699 --> 01:36:32.275
- to hunt for it and so The sponsors were kind enough to add that specific TL 1 a 5 In terms of the action

01:36:32.275 --> 01:36:37.638
- number underneath the goal and I just wanted to point that out and make sure that everybody realized

01:36:37.638 --> 01:36:43.161
- that and I appreciate That the sponsors of the amendment put that in so that then I didn't have to just

01:36:43.161 --> 01:36:48.950
- amend your amendment because that would have taken longer Thank you. Thank you for noting that Councilmember

01:36:48.950 --> 01:36:49.534
- Pema Smith

01:36:52.130 --> 01:36:59.703
- I'm just curious why April 21st and not April 1st, which is would reflect the timelines or the The periods

01:36:59.703 --> 01:37:06.992
- of closure that are in the main ordinance Well, we had initially decided to push it back just a little

01:37:06.992 --> 01:37:14.352
- further we were thinking mid-april Give you know April showers a little bit of time to clear out before

01:37:14.352 --> 01:37:21.854
- we get those May flowers Might we thought it might make some more sense to do a little bit later in April

01:37:21.954 --> 01:37:27.967
- We decided that that tax day didn't sound like a good date to start it and we were like, well, we'll

01:37:27.967 --> 01:37:34.040
- give it one more week We'll do April 21st that we were still catching part of April getting that nice

01:37:34.040 --> 01:37:40.173
- April weather, but not the very beginning of the month giving more time to warm up And because there's

01:37:40.173 --> 01:37:46.484
- a point and there's potentially that this would be rolled out a little differently next year that because

01:37:46.484 --> 01:37:49.342
- of deliberation sessions and design shreds that

01:37:49.538 --> 01:37:55.709
- We hope happen, you know in 2026 that it might just be it might be nice to have a little more time To

01:37:55.709 --> 01:38:01.820
- really get all the ducks in a row. So it is a little bit arbitrary, but I think moving forward after

01:38:01.820 --> 01:38:03.998
- 2027 it would be the April 1st date

01:38:07.778 --> 01:38:17.018
- Excellent we'll move now to time of public comment just on the amendment You'll get a time of comment

01:38:17.018 --> 01:38:26.077
- on the whole ordinance that you're after but and what anybody like to make a comment on amendment 1

01:38:26.077 --> 01:38:35.498
- to ordinance 20 26 12 We have one coming Good evening, mr. President Christopher MG greater Bloomington

01:38:35.498 --> 01:38:37.310
- Chamber of Commerce

01:38:37.442 --> 01:38:44.348
- Just one thing on the amendment. I do think it kind of makes things a little bit even more complicated

01:38:44.348 --> 01:38:51.052
- Moving forward, but I will say I want to hone down on the deliberation sessions which I like and it

01:38:51.052 --> 01:38:57.891
- kind of brings to the point of the larger one which is the opportunity cost and What that cost is and

01:38:57.891 --> 01:39:04.126
- sort of looking at what this is going to entail which is why we keep we've heard it and from

01:39:04.258 --> 01:39:10.814
- Councilmember Piedmont Smith of my language of the cart before the horse and sort of getting to some

01:39:10.814 --> 01:39:17.304
- of those issues and having that deliberation session after the fact I think isn't it's Probably the

01:39:17.304 --> 01:39:24.120
- wrong way to go but I like the fact that deliberation sessions in there talking about this because there

01:39:24.120 --> 01:39:30.870
- is an opportunity cost on what this will do and what is the return on investment if we do a big project

01:39:30.870 --> 01:39:33.726
- here or Just north where the monolith is or

01:39:33.922 --> 01:39:41.422
- Just south on the walnuts walnut college quarter. So anyway, I just want to say I like that deliberation

01:39:41.422 --> 01:39:48.708
- session the amendment I do do appreciate back. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is there anybody else in

01:39:48.708 --> 01:39:55.922
- in chambers? Go ahead Hi deputy mayor Gretchen that first of all, thank you to the sponsors for this

01:39:55.922 --> 01:40:03.422
- amendment to move things to next year greatly appreciated in regarding to the start date if you you know

01:40:03.746 --> 01:40:10.391
- I appreciate that you've moved it later and I just would like to remind you that little 500 is the weekend

01:40:10.391 --> 01:40:16.912
- of the 23rd So you've proposed closing the street for little 500 which our public safety offers officers

01:40:16.912 --> 01:40:22.937
- expressly requested Is it is very important not to do so? I just wanted to reiterate that point.

01:40:22.937 --> 01:40:29.147
- Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone online? Okay, anybody else in chambers, all right, we'll come

01:40:29.147 --> 01:40:33.246
- back to council and any comments before we vote on this amendment

01:40:38.978 --> 01:40:44.830
- I wanted to speak briefly to the the cart horse analogy that keeps coming up because mr. MG brought

01:40:44.830 --> 01:40:50.682
- it up and I thought it's just worth mentioning now that I think the deliberation sessions to follow

01:40:50.682 --> 01:40:56.826
- a good idea and I think They will follow well from this ordinance Because we're you know set potentially

01:40:56.826 --> 01:41:02.736
- setting certainty rather than revisiting and rehashing the same issue over and over again every year

01:41:02.736 --> 01:41:05.662
- like we've been doing for the last five years and

01:41:05.762 --> 01:41:11.094
- So the deliberation session stopped being a rehash of the same exact conversations with the same, you

01:41:11.094 --> 01:41:16.479
- know General like we have a diversity of views here in the chambers. We have a diversity of use in the

01:41:16.479 --> 01:41:21.968
- community We know that we also have city goals and plans that speak to this And we've made this decision

01:41:21.968 --> 01:41:27.195
- annually for the last five years So we're making it again tonight and trying to like we did in 2025

01:41:27.195 --> 01:41:30.750
- trying to make it in a way that is more Permanent or semi-permanent

01:41:31.074 --> 01:41:36.479
- So I just wanted to say like I very much support the idea of deliberation sessions to follow from this

01:41:36.479 --> 01:41:41.936
- But to me those are ideally suited to be about the how around the implementation the phasing the design

01:41:41.936 --> 01:41:47.184
- how do we make sure that BT access can get where they need to go with their passengers so that this

01:41:47.184 --> 01:41:52.431
- is a very accessible place for instance and other things like that, so just wanted to speak to that

01:41:52.431 --> 01:41:57.679
- we had an email from a constituent that kind of said this ordinance is is the horse and so it would

01:41:57.679 --> 01:41:59.358
- lead us where we need to go and

01:41:59.586 --> 01:42:06.363
- To build the cart that reflects the community vision the resources available, etc that's a little bit

01:42:06.363 --> 01:42:13.339
- to the ordinance of a hole as a whole but it was coming up in the context of the timing of this Dictated

01:42:13.339 --> 01:42:20.116
- by this amendment and the opportunity for deliberation sessions later this year. Thank you. Thank you

01:42:20.116 --> 01:42:26.761
- so much. Councilmember Flaherty any other comments Seeing none will the clerk be called the role on

01:42:26.761 --> 01:42:29.086
- amendment one? Councilmember daily

01:42:29.442 --> 01:42:38.876
- Yes, Rallo. Yes rough. Yes, Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes, Stossberg. Yes Yes Zulek, yes. I'm sorry.

01:42:38.876 --> 01:42:48.591
- Yes Thank you so much. All right. Now we have the ordinance as amended. Are there any other amendments?

01:42:48.591 --> 01:42:57.278
- None. Okay. So at this time if the Transportation Commission chair, is that what you want? I

01:42:57.506 --> 01:43:04.771
- Slides and then we'll have us brief presentation from the Transportation Commission and we are gonna

01:43:04.771 --> 01:43:12.035
- roll through this like that. We know that there's a very long meeting. So slide three This is just a

01:43:12.035 --> 01:43:19.372
- quick review of the process mostly takeaways Draft started in March engaged council and directors and

01:43:19.372 --> 01:43:24.766
- the administration in April worked through all of that for more months and

01:43:25.154 --> 01:43:32.157
- Started talking about it here may 20th and June 4th and then Sorry, I put June 10th, but it was June

01:43:32.157 --> 01:43:39.230
- 8th that this went to the Transportation Commission Where they voted to recommend this ordinance five

01:43:39.230 --> 01:43:42.142
- one? Okay next slide just to sort of also

01:43:42.338 --> 01:43:48.684
- Try to be specific here right now There is an ordinance on the books in the city of Bloomington that

01:43:48.684 --> 01:43:55.470
- Kirkwood will be car free from April until November and that is in cases of emergency lack of participation

01:43:55.470 --> 01:44:01.879
- and any other reason that may be rendered that may render the program impractical what we are looking

01:44:01.879 --> 01:44:08.163
- at is basically doing the same thing but Shortening that to in cases of emergency the city engineer

01:44:08.163 --> 01:44:11.870
- would be able to temporarily restore traffic on the street

01:44:13.826 --> 01:44:20.447
- Next slide. So I think this was a little bit about the criteria one was for the Transportation Commission.

01:44:20.447 --> 01:44:26.696
- Sorry. That's where these slides debuted I wanted I think councilmember Flaherty pointed to this but

01:44:26.696 --> 01:44:33.008
- right now feels like a first step to me and that is codification of this and then the next step would

01:44:33.008 --> 01:44:39.319
- be design surets as called for in the transportation plan and then deliberation sessions to from City

01:44:39.319 --> 01:44:40.062
- Council and

01:44:43.074 --> 01:44:49.554
- These are just slides and we don't have to go through them about plans and goals of our city that this

01:44:49.554 --> 01:44:55.846
- This car-free Kirkwood touches on a big one is encouraging the concept of streets as not merely for

01:44:55.846 --> 01:45:02.137
- transportation But as important public spaces where community thrives, of course, the comprehensive

01:45:02.137 --> 01:45:03.710
- plan is pretty broad and

01:45:03.970 --> 01:45:11.547
- So there is also the next slide downtown goals for the comprehensive plan that this touches on as well

01:45:11.547 --> 01:45:19.345
- and then next slide a chapter on culture and identity that talks about places for culture and programming

01:45:19.345 --> 01:45:26.922
- to happen Resilient public spaces that are highly high quality engaging and active and and things like

01:45:26.922 --> 01:45:32.734
- that accessible to all ages and abilities and serve to connect generations and

01:45:33.314 --> 01:45:40.309
- The next slide is the climate action plan that just calls out what we already discussed in the whereas

01:45:40.309 --> 01:45:47.236
- clause The next slide talks about the importance of third places and what that is for a community the

01:45:47.236 --> 01:45:54.163
- Kirkwood Community Association wrote that letter to council back in February encouraging us to Try to

01:45:54.163 --> 01:45:57.694
- keep this in place. And so I just wanted to sort of

01:45:58.754 --> 01:46:06.698
- Resay I guess or say again that third places are important and this is about a lot of things economic

01:46:06.698 --> 01:46:14.487
- development Street safety and community building so that's it from me and then in our research what

01:46:14.487 --> 01:46:23.054
- we were thinking about moving forward we took a look at three other college towns that were fairly comparable

01:46:23.054 --> 01:46:24.222
- to Bloomington

01:46:24.354 --> 01:46:31.418
- And did some brief comparisons just to kind of set that foundation these three other towns and boroughs

01:46:31.418 --> 01:46:38.483
- also have Pedestrian malls so we wanted to take a look at some of the stuff that they did And they also

01:46:38.483 --> 01:46:45.547
- had some pain points that were similar to what has been raised in our discussions and I wanted to share

01:46:45.547 --> 01:46:52.408
- to a little bit about Some of their solutions. I'm not saying we have to do their solutions. We have

01:46:52.408 --> 01:46:54.174
- to copy what they did but

01:46:54.402 --> 01:47:02.320
- It's more to show that there are solutions out there and we can kind of come up with some Creative answers

01:47:02.320 --> 01:47:10.164
- to what people are pointing out as problems. So the first one was Iowa City Next slide, please So they're

01:47:10.164 --> 01:47:17.342
- very similar to Bloomington their pedestrian mall goes right up against the edge of their campus

01:47:17.538 --> 01:47:24.716
- So rather than the city taking on the full load of operations They have a downtown district that is

01:47:24.716 --> 01:47:31.893
- in charge of helping maintain and activate their pedestrian mall So that just proved that a city of

01:47:31.893 --> 01:47:39.430
- our size can successfully maintain theirs is permanent. You know, we're just at this point talking about

01:47:39.430 --> 01:47:47.038
- part of the year, but it proved that it can be successful it can be maintained and it can be a place that

01:47:47.426 --> 01:47:58.070
- the entire community can use families during the day and The students and other adults at night next

01:47:58.070 --> 01:48:08.714
- slide so one of their concerns was Safety they they had similar concerns that have been expressed is

01:48:08.714 --> 01:48:13.246
- here such as how do emergency crews handle

01:48:13.698 --> 01:48:21.013
- Anything happening down the middle of their pedestrian mall. So what they did was While they designed

01:48:21.013 --> 01:48:28.472
- the the entire pedestrian mall to look like a large park They also kept everything more along the edges

01:48:28.472 --> 01:48:36.146
- and down the center They have a lane where they can get emergency vehicles right down the lane By removing

01:48:36.146 --> 01:48:43.390
- the bollards and getting there in place. So we also thought we could also apply a similar concept of

01:48:44.354 --> 01:48:50.974
- Kirkwood For getting onto the Kirkwood blocks even you know for not just emergency but for accessibility

01:48:50.974 --> 01:48:57.278
- issues There are lots of solutions we could brainstorm micro autos Golf carts petty cabs. There are

01:48:57.278 --> 01:49:01.502
- different solutions that are possible that can help the traffic of

01:49:01.666 --> 01:49:08.716
- Pedestrians flowing successfully and smoothly. So that was one of the way to address safety concerns

01:49:08.716 --> 01:49:15.767
- It doesn't necessarily have to be a hindrance. We can lay this out so that it works for all during a

01:49:15.767 --> 01:49:22.887
- seasonal rollout Next slide, please was State College, Pennsylvania So they are in a similar position

01:49:22.887 --> 01:49:24.702
- to what we are in now and

01:49:25.506 --> 01:49:32.178
- For years, they've also been back and forth about whether or not they can maintain and incorporate a

01:49:32.178 --> 01:49:39.048
- pedestrian mall, right? So they had a lot of local political hesitation businesses Very concerned about

01:49:39.048 --> 01:49:45.918
- the parking situations. And of course, you know, they actually had the pandemic was a hindrance to them

01:49:46.786 --> 01:49:54.292
- And I know, you know, we've been hearing hold off. There's going to be a Corridor study for Kirkwood

01:49:54.292 --> 01:50:01.873
- next year. Can we wait until after that? But actually what this shows is that This can help guide the

01:50:01.873 --> 01:50:09.454
- corridor study, right? So they pivoted to a pilot program of doing this pedestrian mall to help guide

01:50:09.454 --> 01:50:12.798
- their Their corridor study and helped target

01:50:13.154 --> 01:50:18.518
- where they were going to be looking and to really get a better view of how this works and how Maybe

01:50:18.518 --> 01:50:24.042
- they can make improvements and what isn't working So it's a lot easier to gather the hard data on what

01:50:24.042 --> 01:50:29.459
- is happening on Kirkwood when it's in action already So that was a way for them to look at it before

01:50:29.459 --> 01:50:34.877
- they committed to those changes, you know fully permanently, you know This could still be at a stage

01:50:34.877 --> 01:50:40.294
- for us where we still have some flexibility to if we're trying one thing. Oh The study showed that's

01:50:40.294 --> 01:50:42.654
- not working. Here's what we should pivot to

01:50:43.330 --> 01:50:50.453
- So on the next slide then Talks a little bit more about that corridor study first. I think I might have

01:50:50.453 --> 01:50:57.303
- jumped ahead so they let they let the Pilot I wanted to say pivot they want they let the pilot kind

01:50:57.303 --> 01:51:04.152
- of help guide that they use that to get their real-world hard data So that just shows that we don't

01:51:04.152 --> 01:51:11.070
- need to wait for the study. We can use it to help with our Goals for what we want to do for Kirkwood

01:51:12.546 --> 01:51:19.289
- And then the final one that we took a look at was Burlington Vermont. So this one has been around for

01:51:19.289 --> 01:51:26.031
- a very long time This is unique Because it is an actual department of the city of Bloomington. And so

01:51:26.031 --> 01:51:31.518
- they have their own dedicated commission But what I liked about how their approach

01:51:31.810 --> 01:51:39.277
- Handled it is that they did the micro retail strategy So they have permits for micro vendors carts that

01:51:39.277 --> 01:51:46.529
- can come out onto the pedestrian mall buskers can get a permit It's a way that we can help keep that

01:51:46.529 --> 01:51:54.354
- space activated and vibrant and also make some money off of the permits to help keep funding the maintenance

01:51:54.354 --> 01:51:55.934
- and the activation of

01:51:56.098 --> 01:52:04.886
- a Kirkwood Carless space so it just shows to that the pedestrian zone can actually kind of help pay

01:52:04.886 --> 01:52:13.849
- its way and Help defray some of the costs on our budget and then the final slide shows that hit shows

01:52:13.849 --> 01:52:21.406
- how they overcame another one of the concerns that we have heard a lot about corridor

01:52:21.570 --> 01:52:28.961
- The Kirkwood corridor being shut down is the deliveries So they have a window of time early in the morning

01:52:28.961 --> 01:52:35.869
- where the delivery trucks can head in They have access to the street They can make their deliveries

01:52:35.869 --> 01:52:43.261
- and then they shut off the road at exactly 10 a.m All of the vehicles have to be out of there The bollards

01:52:43.261 --> 01:52:50.583
- are put back in place and then it becomes fully pedestrian until 6 a.m. The next day. So this was another

01:52:50.583 --> 01:52:51.550
- solution that

01:52:51.874 --> 01:53:00.058
- Could address some of our concerns. It was a compromise for the local businesses to help with the logistics

01:53:00.058 --> 01:53:07.939
- And again, it proves that we can coexist and find ways to make everybody feel that their their concerns

01:53:07.939 --> 01:53:15.668
- are being addressed And then the next slide I wanted to discuss a little bit about the study that was

01:53:15.668 --> 01:53:17.790
- brought up last week it was

01:53:18.050 --> 01:53:25.387
- Cited that 89% of pedestrian malls in the United States have a failure rate That means that 11% have

01:53:25.387 --> 01:53:32.725
- been successful and I know that's that's not an impressive number but of those 80% of the successful

01:53:32.725 --> 01:53:40.280
- pedestrian malls we meet the criteria for those successful pedestrian malls they happened in areas that

01:53:40.280 --> 01:53:42.750
- had populations under 100,000 and

01:53:43.778 --> 01:53:51.573
- Check that box They happened in certain settings such as a university town. We check that box and so

01:53:51.573 --> 01:53:59.523
- the other Item that I wanted to point out about the study is that it was from 2015 and That's 11 years

01:53:59.523 --> 01:54:07.395
- ago, which doesn't necessarily sound like a lifetime ago But it was before the pandemic and a lot has

01:54:07.395 --> 01:54:12.798
- changed since then our relationship to outdoor spaces has drastically

01:54:13.890 --> 01:54:22.107
- undergone some changes. I think there's a lot more hunger for being in outdoor spaces since the pandemic

01:54:22.107 --> 01:54:28.446
- and people really appreciate having that space and that air around them. So that

01:54:28.642 --> 01:54:35.687
- That and then I'm going to flip it back over to councilmember Rosenberger a little bit about economic

01:54:35.687 --> 01:54:42.801
- development So this increases on walking and biking opportunities increase some of these specific ways

01:54:42.801 --> 01:54:49.846
- are impulse spending Bicyclists and pedestrians are more likely to stop in and to buy things and make

01:54:49.846 --> 01:54:54.750
- frequent stops higher monthly spend cyclists and walkers tend to spend

01:54:54.850 --> 01:55:03.125
- the same or more on average than someone arriving by car and A New York City. This is about protected

01:55:03.125 --> 01:55:11.482
- bike lanes. So it is different Show that they did a revitalization of 9th Avenue a redesign where they

01:55:11.482 --> 01:55:14.078
- had a 49% surge in retail sales

01:55:16.866 --> 01:55:24.150
- Nearby studies. These are our bigger picture economic development in from mostly bike recreation So

01:55:24.150 --> 01:55:31.580
- it's different than looking at bike commuting so much But more so like folks either coming to an area

01:55:31.580 --> 01:55:39.520
- to bike for fun or people biking for fun who live there These are older. I think the first one was Minnesota

01:55:39.520 --> 01:55:42.142
- in 2009 that they said the state is

01:55:43.170 --> 01:55:51.093
- bicyclists attributed to 261 million dollars Increase in the economy more than 5,000 jobs and generated

01:55:51.093 --> 01:55:58.863
- 35 million in taxes That's just one you all can read the numbers to there in the hundreds of millions

01:55:58.863 --> 01:56:06.785
- for what kind of economic development impact this can have as people bike and walk Chicago and Montreal

01:56:06.785 --> 01:56:08.766
- Montreal has 10 different

01:56:08.898 --> 01:56:16.325
- Pedestrian zones and it's seasonal and of course in Montreal that season is pretty darn short They talk

01:56:16.325 --> 01:56:23.751
- about I've been to one for a placemaking conference They talked about having a 90% approval rating from

01:56:23.751 --> 01:56:31.035
- visitors and residents 60% of local businesses liked it and saw an increase in foot traffic depending

01:56:31.035 --> 01:56:33.534
- on the street 17 to 86 percent and

01:56:34.402 --> 01:56:41.283
- Chicago has a Sundays on State Street happening now. This is in the loop So it's where you know, the

01:56:41.283 --> 01:56:47.550
- big buildings are and everything in Chicago and they were definitely fighting I guess folks

01:56:48.290 --> 01:56:54.897
- Having an issue with folks going to different neighborhoods and I think suburbs to hang out on the on

01:56:54.897 --> 01:57:01.375
- the weekend So they started as Sundays on slate and and 2023 had more than a million folks over two

01:57:01.375 --> 01:57:08.307
- events There was an economic impact of seven point eight million and then because of this they are looking

01:57:08.307 --> 01:57:15.367
- very seriously at bringing back permanent pedestrian streets there I talked a little bit about job creation,

01:57:15.367 --> 01:57:17.246
- but this is another snapshot

01:57:18.178 --> 01:57:26.039
- It mostly is just saying that money that is invested in projects that include bike ped in any way are

01:57:26.039 --> 01:57:33.823
- Just create a lot more jobs 11.4 jobs per million dollar spent where if it is a project that is rode

01:57:33.823 --> 01:57:41.683
- only at seven point eight jobs per One million dollar. I was just trying to get some good numbers out

01:57:41.683 --> 01:57:44.766
- there for folks to have some numbers of

01:57:45.954 --> 01:57:52.269
- Next slide is just again. We've kind of been through this It was like amendments and actions from talking

01:57:52.269 --> 01:57:58.226
- with all of you all and everyone else so the amendments that we already did and then sort of a next

01:57:58.226 --> 01:58:04.243
- step situation where hopefully council can codify this then I did talk to some other council members

01:58:04.243 --> 01:58:07.102
- about potentially having a resolution ready and

01:58:07.202 --> 01:58:14.107
- when we're back requesting funding for Kirkwood or looking at designating a fund for this or a portion

01:58:14.107 --> 01:58:21.011
- of a fund for this Because we did hear a lot about we don't want to do this without having funding for

01:58:21.011 --> 01:58:28.050
- it so trying to figure out a way to work on that with council and the administration and then the shreds

01:58:28.050 --> 01:58:35.357
- and everything and then April it gets going I Think now would then be a good time to have the Transportation

01:58:35.357 --> 01:58:36.094
- Commission

01:58:36.322 --> 01:58:48.609
- For this brief presentation Thank You Steve Olin chair of the Transportation Commission we met on Monday,

01:58:48.609 --> 01:59:00.316
- June 8th in a special hearing there were six members in attendance Out of the nine who are appointed

01:59:00.316 --> 01:59:03.678
- the Commission I did want to

01:59:04.578 --> 01:59:14.075
- Well, I'll just read to you the The motion that was accepted by the Commission we had some trouble figuring

01:59:14.075 --> 01:59:22.869
- out exactly how to form the motion staff made a presentation in which they are they brought to us a

01:59:22.869 --> 01:59:32.190
- resolution recommending and a negative finding or finding a negative recommendation for the ordinance and

01:59:32.482 --> 01:59:40.822
- After a couple of hours debate the Commission adopted this motion. They moved to reject staffs recommended

01:59:40.822 --> 01:59:48.695
- findings I'm quoting now to adopt new findings that the council ordinance is broadly consistent with

01:59:48.695 --> 01:59:56.957
- the Transportation Commission's criteria for analysis and review and To forward a positive recommendation

01:59:56.957 --> 02:00:01.790
- on the ordinance to City Council that Motion was approved 5-1

02:00:01.954 --> 02:00:08.860
- So I do want to just remind council that it is within the remit of the Transportation Commission to

02:00:08.860 --> 02:00:16.110
- consider the broader use of rights of way but the Commission is supported by the departments of planning

02:00:16.110 --> 02:00:23.154
- and transportation and engineering and the conversion of a street to something beyond a shared street

02:00:23.154 --> 02:00:30.750
- to a public place Requires other departments like economic and sustainable development the parking Commission

02:00:31.138 --> 02:00:37.271
- Began with at least two members who were merchants There is no express requirement for a merchant on

02:00:37.271 --> 02:00:43.343
- the Transportation Commission We remain able to consider the methods by which East Kirkwood becomes

02:00:43.343 --> 02:00:49.475
- something more than it is now It is within our portfolio to oversee court or studies for example and

02:00:49.475 --> 02:00:55.730
- would be happy to talk with you about Getting that started but we want to emphasize that this is going

02:00:55.730 --> 02:00:58.462
- to require the attention of many departments

02:00:58.690 --> 02:01:05.363
- Interest groups and elected officials beyond our scope one last thing I wanted to say in response to

02:01:05.363 --> 02:01:10.846
- Councilmember Daley's idea that user fees are a viable way to fund public services

02:01:10.946 --> 02:01:19.365
- That is how parking is now paying for itself since meters came into use more than 10 years ago I want

02:01:19.365 --> 02:01:28.443
- to share a small bit of new data. I literally received this afternoon from Walker parking which is finalizing

02:01:28.443 --> 02:01:36.779
- the study they've done of the city's parking system in 2018 2.34 4 million dollars were generated by

02:01:36.779 --> 02:01:38.430
- meters downtown and

02:01:38.530 --> 02:01:45.414
- The split of that was forty six percent credit card thirty six percent coin and eighteen percent by

02:01:45.414 --> 02:01:52.574
- the park mobile app As of last year if I'm reading the data correctly that figure is now two point nine

02:01:52.574 --> 02:01:59.596
- eight nine million dollars thirty two percent use card only fifteen percent coin the app is now fifty

02:01:59.596 --> 02:02:00.766
- three percent of

02:02:01.026 --> 02:02:07.757
- Transactions, so there's a tremendous change in the way that people are using parking And but the program

02:02:07.757 --> 02:02:14.615
- is overall is successful and I want to encourage council to consider that a user fee For different services

02:02:14.615 --> 02:02:21.028
- that might be provided would be viable again. That's kind of thing that we'd be happy to contemplate

02:02:21.028 --> 02:02:27.505
- In a corridor study or any of the further debate over these ideas We look forward to working with you

02:02:27.505 --> 02:02:29.854
- if I'm happy to answer any questions

02:02:30.978 --> 02:02:39.293
- Thank you so much. Any questions for Commissioner Volin? Please councilman Stasberg having caught the

02:02:39.293 --> 02:02:47.690
- end of that Transportation Commission meeting. I think that it would be good for council to maybe hear

02:02:47.690 --> 02:02:53.886
- the longer story of the two votes that failed to pass because there was not

02:02:54.498 --> 02:03:02.714
- It's not as clear-cut maybe I'm happy to explore them. Okay, so our first motion was to Because again,

02:03:02.714 --> 02:03:10.850
- we were unsure of how the Transportation Commission's process is modeled on Plan Commission, but it's

02:03:10.850 --> 02:03:19.225
- still not entirely Clear to commissioners. The first motion was made to adopt no recommendation to adopt

02:03:19.225 --> 02:03:23.134
- a neutral recommendation that was a 3-3 vote and

02:03:23.810 --> 02:03:31.510
- We were instructed that any recommendation sent to council required five votes the majority of the nine

02:03:31.510 --> 02:03:38.914
- members The second motion was to adopt a negative recommendation that failed two to four Only after

02:03:38.914 --> 02:03:46.688
- those two motions. Did we adopt the third motion? I don't know if that answers your question comfortable

02:03:46.688 --> 02:03:53.278
- for Stossburg I'm happy to go through the votes of the the initial members if you'd like

02:03:59.010 --> 02:04:07.713
- All right, thank you so much and we'll now move to a time of public comment if you'd like to come Oh,

02:04:07.713 --> 02:04:16.586
- sorry councilmember Piedmont Smith. I'm sorry Yes, thank you Could I hear the wording of the the motion

02:04:16.586 --> 02:04:25.118
- that was adopted five one place I will reread the the wording of the motion quote the motion was to

02:04:25.118 --> 02:04:28.446
- reject staffs recommended findings and

02:04:29.538 --> 02:04:36.130
- to adopt new findings that the council ordinance is broadly consistent with the Commission's criteria

02:04:36.130 --> 02:04:42.593
- for analysis slash review and To forward a positive recommendation on the ordinance to City Council

02:04:42.593 --> 02:04:49.315
- Okay, sorry, okay, thank you Thank you so much. That's the president. Sorry. I also just briefly please

02:04:49.315 --> 02:04:55.842
- go ahead as our member Please thank you the transportation Commission and who made that motion as we

02:04:55.842 --> 02:04:58.686
- were searching for the right motion to make

02:04:58.978 --> 02:05:05.981
- In particular, it's a it's um, there are four set of criteria that are codified by which the Commission

02:05:05.981 --> 02:05:12.849
- assesses various proposals the way The commission but operating staff comes in with proposed findings

02:05:12.849 --> 02:05:19.650
- this is now the second time that the Commission has decided to reject the proposed findings of staff

02:05:19.650 --> 02:05:26.653
- and We're kind of getting our sea legs. I would say of like how to do that and there was some confusion

02:05:26.653 --> 02:05:28.606
- about the appropriateness of

02:05:28.834 --> 02:05:34.664
- Coming prepared with alternative findings. For instance, this was also in a relatively short turn around

02:05:34.664 --> 02:05:40.383
- a timeline this one So it's been part of our learning process But the reason alternative findings they

02:05:40.383 --> 02:05:46.046
- were more detailed or you know point-by-point in the four criteria weren't Developed is because there

02:05:46.046 --> 02:05:51.654
- wasn't time to do that and wasn't clarity on how to do that. So that's why the motion Because he did

02:05:51.654 --> 02:05:56.318
- need to adopt findings of some kind and so that's why the motion is was worded that

02:05:57.250 --> 02:06:03.548
- we found the ordinance to be broadly aligned with the criteria for for assessment and review as Mr.

02:06:03.548 --> 02:06:10.287
- Villalon state Councilmember Flaherty, can you review if you have it in front of you or maybe Commissioner

02:06:10.287 --> 02:06:16.648
- villain does those four? Review criteria that Transportation Commission uses. I know you stated them

02:06:16.648 --> 02:06:21.246
- during that meeting but I have them pulled if you'd like me to read them

02:06:26.274 --> 02:06:35.615
- They are consistent with the company That is consistent with advancing a sustainable transportation

02:06:35.615 --> 02:06:45.329
- system and equitable access to all transportation facility users While prioritizing on automotive modes

02:06:45.329 --> 02:06:55.230
- and has adequately conducted public engagement considered community center design tied to target outcomes

02:06:59.490 --> 02:07:07.382
- I guess I just want to like say that in terms of like whether or not to Convert Kirkwood to an all pedestrian

02:07:07.382 --> 02:07:14.700
- street is more than just those four pieces of Transportation specific thing there are there are other

02:07:14.700 --> 02:07:22.090
- components of that and so I guess I wanted those read partly to point that out that the Transportation

02:07:22.090 --> 02:07:27.614
- Commission's Focus on this was relatively narrow in terms of a piece of what

02:07:27.874 --> 02:07:36.231
- Closing Kirkwood to cars would would do things. I Would agree with what both council members said it's

02:07:36.231 --> 02:07:44.750
- It's it's been difficult for us to find our sea legs But we're getting there and we think that yesterday

02:07:44.750 --> 02:07:51.646
- or Monday's debate was productive and needs to continue Fantastic. Thank you so much

02:07:52.418 --> 02:07:57.883
- All right, we'll now move to a time of public comment. If you'd like to comment on this message, just

02:07:57.883 --> 02:08:03.401
- a show of hands of people who would like to comment on this ordinance. All right, all right, thank you

02:08:03.401 --> 02:08:08.812
- so much. All right, if you could say your name. You know the rule. Take it away. And don't forget to

02:08:08.812 --> 02:08:14.384
- sign in. Hello again. My name is Zach Ammerman. You're probably tired of hearing from me on this issue.

02:08:14.384 --> 02:08:17.598
- I've been in your inbox several times, but here I am again.

02:08:17.890 --> 02:08:23.042
- So I'd just like to start by pushing back against some of the administration's arguments against

02:08:23.042 --> 02:08:28.512
- pedestrianizing Kirkwood, which I think have been pretty weak, to be frank with you. We were told that

02:08:28.512 --> 02:08:33.876
- several comparable cities are in fact not comparable, and when in fact all of the data suggests that

02:08:33.876 --> 02:08:39.346
- in the most important respects they strongly, we are comparable in all of the ways that would strongly

02:08:39.346 --> 02:08:41.630
- predict a success of a pedestrian program.

02:08:41.762 --> 02:08:47.468
- Boulder, Burlington, and Charlottesville all have similar, they're college towns with compact and dense

02:08:47.468 --> 02:08:53.229
- downtowns, young populations that sustain commitments from their cities. Those are things that we either

02:08:53.229 --> 02:08:58.935
- already have or could have in Bloomington, so I think that's a reason that they are comparable. We were

02:08:58.935 --> 02:09:04.422
- also told that 89% of American pedestrian streets fail. That is a single figure from a single study

02:09:04.422 --> 02:09:10.622
- from 2013, actually, not 2015, so it's even older, by one person who prepared it for the city of Fresno in 2013.

02:09:11.042 --> 02:09:17.117
- That is hardly a law of nature. Just pointing that out. In that very same study, by the way, which was

02:09:17.117 --> 02:09:23.369
- not cited by the administration, it cited all of the ways that Bloomington actually would be a successful

02:09:23.369 --> 02:09:29.266
- program and all the things I just mentioned, a college town population under 100,000, et cetera. We

02:09:29.266 --> 02:09:35.223
- were also told that closing Kirkwood to cars would harm accessibility. I frankly disagree with that.

02:09:35.223 --> 02:09:38.526
- There have been extensive studies on pedestrian streets

02:09:38.722 --> 02:09:44.102
- and federal accessibility guidelines disagree, and those studies disagree. But for time's sake, suffice

02:09:44.102 --> 02:09:49.328
- it to say that the administration's framing reduces the full spectrum of accessibility concerns down

02:09:49.328 --> 02:09:54.760
- to a single, largely irrelevant variable, how close a car can park to a door. I argue that that position

02:09:54.760 --> 02:10:00.347
- is not serious engagement with accessibility, but rather a defense of car dependency. We were told removing

02:10:00.347 --> 02:10:05.521
- cars would have no impact on crashes. On a street, the city's own safety analysis designates as the

02:10:05.521 --> 02:10:06.814
- highest impact corridor.

02:10:06.946 --> 02:10:12.732
- I'll let that contradiction speak for itself. I think it's a little bit silly. Here's the real reason

02:10:12.732 --> 02:10:18.405
- why pedestrian streets fail. It's when cities under-invest, hedge, try to have it both ways, try to

02:10:18.405 --> 02:10:24.305
- implement idiosyncratic half-measures, and quietly undermine their own programs. And I think we've seen

02:10:24.305 --> 02:10:30.431
- that on full display from the city administration on the Kirkwood program. Bloomington has every structural

02:10:30.431 --> 02:10:32.190
- advantage research identifies.

02:10:32.450 --> 02:10:36.971
- for implementing a successful pedestrian program. The one ingredient we are missing is political will

02:10:36.971 --> 02:10:41.581
- and vision, and that is one that can only be supplied by you here tonight. So I ask the council to fill

02:10:41.581 --> 02:10:46.102
- that gap in will and vision and give this program the firm, durable commitment that success requires.

02:10:46.102 --> 02:10:46.590
- Thank you.

02:11:22.978 --> 02:11:31.679
- Okay, my name is Hillary Martel And as a downtown business owner, I am in full support of creating a

02:11:31.679 --> 02:11:40.725
- more pedestrian friendly Kirkwood my opinion though is that creating a carless Kirkwood and a pedestrian

02:11:40.725 --> 02:11:49.426
- mall Kirkwood are two totally separate things The cities that were mentioned that have created these

02:11:49.426 --> 02:11:51.838
- successful pedestrian malls

02:11:51.938 --> 02:11:58.021
- That's um, you know, we talked about burlington iowa city charlottesville boulder all of these cities

02:11:58.021 --> 02:12:02.494
- created these pedestrian-only outdoor malls in the late 1970s in the early

02:12:02.850 --> 02:12:08.836
- 1980s to try and counter suburban or to counter suburban flight They created these areas with grants

02:12:08.836 --> 02:12:14.881
- and bonds Totaling anywhere from 1.85 million to 6 million and continue to spend millions annually to

02:12:14.881 --> 02:12:21.164
- keep these spaces up the current value of those bonds and grants needed would be 10 million to 24 million

02:12:21.164 --> 02:12:24.542
- plus what is needed annually to keep these spaces up and

02:12:25.026 --> 02:12:32.271
- We're lacking that we don't have those grants and bonds in place to create these the successful pedestrian

02:12:32.271 --> 02:12:39.449
- mall My biggest nightmare is a downtown business owner is to see Five blocks of what people have referred

02:12:39.449 --> 02:12:44.798
- to as a concrete desert. That's what I saw last summer when I was downtown and

02:12:45.122 --> 02:12:51.627
- That's a huge concern to me and I don't think that really benefits anyone The cities that have created

02:12:51.627 --> 02:12:58.006
- these successful Pedestrian areas and that have had master plans and have had these bonds and grants

02:12:58.006 --> 02:13:04.322
- and have have made these Successful areas they have been able to create a park like environment the

02:13:04.322 --> 02:13:07.038
- roads are brick paved or their cobblestone

02:13:07.138 --> 02:13:13.245
- They're quaint they have Planters with flowers they have they plant mature trees that are already going

02:13:13.245 --> 02:13:19.646
- to provide shade That's why it costs millions and millions of dollars to create this most of the places have

02:13:19.746 --> 02:13:25.112
- Fountains they have splash pads for kids to play in they have playgrounds. That's what we want and that's

02:13:25.112 --> 02:13:30.225
- as you know, my kids are a little older now They're not gonna play in a splash pad. But when I would

02:13:30.225 --> 02:13:35.439
- had young children, that's what we needed And that costs millions and millions of dollars in if you're

02:13:35.439 --> 02:13:40.703
- gonna draw the amount of traffic that you need to Kirkwood to justify Closing off five blocks. You have

02:13:40.703 --> 02:13:45.310
- to have weekly concerts. You have to have farmers markets You have to have an amphitheater

02:13:45.442 --> 02:13:51.015
- These are all things that the city has already created downtown within switchyard park. We have a playground.

02:13:51.015 --> 02:13:56.233
- We have a skate park We have a splash pad. We have a beeline. That's only pedestrian and bike friendly

02:13:56.233 --> 02:14:01.300
- We have all these things that are located in downtown and unless you're willing to recreate that on

02:14:01.300 --> 02:14:06.721
- Kirkwood To bring the amount of people we need to justify Losing five blocks of parking and accessibility.

02:14:06.721 --> 02:14:09.406
- I don't I don't see how it really makes sense. Um, I

02:14:09.730 --> 02:14:15.290
- A lot of these larger cities too. And again, this is with millions and millions of dollars of grants

02:14:15.290 --> 02:14:20.851
- like Burlington They started off as only a two block Project and then it kind of develops from there

02:14:20.851 --> 02:14:26.466
- by closing off five blocks of city I think it's way too It would cost way too much money to create on

02:14:26.466 --> 02:14:32.027
- each individual block things that are going to actually bring members of the community into the town

02:14:32.027 --> 02:14:34.174
- to participate in whatever is going on

02:14:34.402 --> 02:14:47.136
- Also think that I'm sorry. That's your time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much next thing council chambers

02:14:47.136 --> 02:14:59.870
- and thank you for those comments My name is Hartzell Martell I've been a merchant downtown for 34 years and

02:15:00.546 --> 02:15:07.263
- I'm against the permanent closure of Kirkwood due to the lack of accessibility the five block closure

02:15:07.263 --> 02:15:13.981
- creates We're in full support of the closure of Kirkwood for events such as Pride Fest Lotus Festival

02:15:13.981 --> 02:15:20.830
- Taste of Bloomington and other specific events that brings people together on Kirkwood the City Council

02:15:21.442 --> 02:15:28.353
- used State College of Pennsylvania as an example in their studies. State College does not offer a permanent

02:15:28.353 --> 02:15:34.752
- sprawling pedestrian mall, but a designated pedestrian zones in downtown area. One, East End Social

02:15:34.752 --> 02:15:41.151
- is a seasonal pocket park running from May to early August when the college is not in session. This

02:15:41.151 --> 02:15:47.742
- area features lush street planters, seating areas, bistro, lighting with regular summer block parties,

02:15:47.742 --> 02:15:51.070
- and live entertainment. This would be a great model

02:15:51.170 --> 02:15:57.867
- for Bloomington to follow, since summer business has decreased down due to IU classes going on online

02:15:57.867 --> 02:16:04.564
- after COVID. The second area in State College is Calder Walkway, which is a part-time pedestrian mall

02:16:04.564 --> 02:16:11.130
- that only restricts vehicle traffic in the evenings. Following the lead of State College would be a

02:16:11.130 --> 02:16:17.696
- much more feasible option, since they are a college down of similar population and median income. I

02:16:17.696 --> 02:16:18.878
- would really like

02:16:19.010 --> 02:16:25.381
- To see downtown visited more during the summers and accessibility is a must Eliminating full vehicle

02:16:25.381 --> 02:16:31.816
- access based on a vision with no financial backing is as the council had admitted to putting the cart

02:16:31.816 --> 02:16:38.692
- before the horse I wonder if the horse will die before the cart sometimes but this would disrupt businesses.

02:16:38.692 --> 02:16:45.063
- That's all I'm saying Residents and visitors today for a project that may never meant to materialize

02:16:45.063 --> 02:16:47.902
- closing the main corridor to eyes campus and

02:16:48.706 --> 02:16:56.756
- Excuse me. Downtown retail and restaurants is not bold leadership. It is poor planning. As local business

02:16:56.756 --> 02:17:04.730
- owners, our ability to earn living, our living depends on customer being able to easily access the area.

02:17:04.730 --> 02:17:12.324
- Closing Kirkwood without creating a true pedestrian area cuts off parking and accessibility that my

02:17:12.324 --> 02:17:15.134
- business relies on every single day.

02:17:15.906 --> 02:17:22.745
- This is not an abstract policy debate for us. It's my family and other business owners financial security

02:17:22.745 --> 02:17:29.197
- on the line. This is the reason myself along with many other downtown small business owners and the

02:17:29.197 --> 02:17:35.778
- Chamber of Commerce are against a carless Kirkwood for now. I urge the council to table this proposal

02:17:35.778 --> 02:17:43.262
- until funding and concrete timeline exists. Thank you for your time. Thank you. We'll continue in council chambers.

02:17:45.954 --> 02:17:52.624
- Good evening again councils Chris from the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce I Welcome and I want

02:17:52.624 --> 02:17:59.038
- to echo the sentiments of our business owners, which I hope we're listening We were at the advocacy

02:17:59.038 --> 02:18:05.451
- council meeting today and universally the idea was panned by the council as just not ready the city

02:18:05.451 --> 02:18:12.249
- has long envisioned that pedestrian oriented Kirkwood Avenue, but the question remains not whether shared

02:18:12.249 --> 02:18:14.430
- streets a valid concept it is and

02:18:15.042 --> 02:18:21.124
- The question is whether we identified costs, understood trade-offs, established a management structure

02:18:21.124 --> 02:18:27.561
- to find meaningful measures for success before creating another long-term public obligation. Those questions

02:18:27.561 --> 02:18:33.703
- deserved answers. We talked about what we're lacking is political will. I'm telling you, you're lacking

02:18:33.703 --> 02:18:39.726
- funding. SP1 and the fiscal cliff in 2029 is not something to create major long-term obligations for.

02:18:39.726 --> 02:18:42.974
- If you look at where the administration's budget goes,

02:18:43.458 --> 02:18:49.942
- Proposing a lot of big programs a lot of big projects. That's that's not the direction They're going

02:18:49.942 --> 02:18:56.619
- because I think they understand that we are not in the physical place to do this The best time to plant

02:18:56.619 --> 02:19:03.039
- a tree was last year. The best plan to do this was probably two decades ago We sort of look at some

02:19:03.039 --> 02:19:09.459
- other things besides that is What we should be relying on things that bring people in town that are

02:19:09.459 --> 02:19:12.862
- working age We're lacking that particular population

02:19:12.962 --> 02:19:18.525
- Working-age people that are going to have lit revenue that's going to bring in That sort of revenue

02:19:18.525 --> 02:19:24.421
- to have the projects that we all want But physically we are not there. We're there's competing priorities

02:19:24.421 --> 02:19:30.095
- that I've not heard once here We have talked about the sidewalk issue here in town the streets issue.

02:19:30.095 --> 02:19:36.158
- We have public safety. We have public recreation and parks wonderful public space that needs maintenance and

02:19:36.610 --> 02:19:42.844
- We have I've mentioned before Frank Southern the Winslow at some other big capital projects. What are

02:19:42.844 --> 02:19:49.138
- we not going to do? Those are hard conversations and deliberations that you need to have before we get

02:19:49.138 --> 02:19:55.250
- to oh, let's make this obligation We'll figure it out Figuring it out is not the way to go. I think

02:19:55.250 --> 02:20:01.789
- right now There's challenges are real what we're dealing with We're having to look at lighting landscaping

02:20:01.789 --> 02:20:04.478
- for Kirkwood seating furnishings ADA access

02:20:04.994 --> 02:20:11.057
- Who owns the day-to-day operations, which department's responsible, who manages events? What are the

02:20:11.057 --> 02:20:17.360
- metrics for success? Foot traffic, business performance, public safety activity, customer surveys, who's

02:20:17.360 --> 02:20:23.603
- collecting that data? There's not the accountability in there. I just, I can't preface this enough that

02:20:23.603 --> 02:20:29.786
- you need to have some hard conversations budgetarily before we start doing some obligations. Thank you

02:20:29.786 --> 02:20:30.686
- for your time.

02:20:32.450 --> 02:20:42.018
- Thank you. We'll now move online. Are there people online who would like to comment? Yeah, we'll come

02:20:42.018 --> 02:20:51.586
- back to it. We'll come back, yes. Folks online, you should have the ability to unmute yourself. Do we

02:20:51.586 --> 02:21:01.342
- just speak? Yes, go ahead, Mr. Baum. Chris Sturbom, wouldn't it be reassuring if 89% of these succeeded

02:21:02.370 --> 02:21:12.414
- instead of failed. And that statistic is old and has been explained to be old. But the designers of

02:21:12.414 --> 02:21:23.262
- Pearl Street cited a more recent study of 400 that have been attempted. 12 succeeded. 12 are still running.

02:21:23.262 --> 02:21:30.494
- That is 3% success, 97% failure. You know, the picnic tables in the sun

02:21:31.106 --> 02:21:38.126
- I just heard a report of this summer because of the climate issues. And we're going to expect 100 degree

02:21:38.126 --> 02:21:44.879
- days this summer, 90 degree and 100 degree days. That's going to be brutal out there on the streets.

02:21:44.879 --> 02:21:51.632
- Seniors have money to spend. But if they can't get close enough to the town, they're going the wrong

02:21:51.632 --> 02:21:58.585
- way on the one-way street. They have to walk to the Kirkwood to get there. And the students, of course,

02:21:58.585 --> 02:22:00.190
- are gone in the summer.

02:22:01.058 --> 02:22:10.327
- So where's your population? What's the counter to bare streets? It's sensible to close it for occasions.

02:22:10.327 --> 02:22:19.420
- Focused occasions, that helps the businesses, that helps people get downtown and do something. But the

02:22:19.420 --> 02:22:28.248
- constant closure, really a desert down there. There's a looming recession. Businesses are logically

02:22:28.248 --> 02:22:30.014
- worried about this.

02:22:30.754 --> 02:22:38.639
- when they were going to extend Pearl Street, the businesses were unanimously against it because of financial

02:22:38.639 --> 02:22:46.090
- reasons and that the turnover in a parking spot is real money to a merchant. It isn't just one parking

02:22:46.090 --> 02:22:53.324
- spot, it's 18 cars a day that use that spot. Those customers are lost, multiply the spots lost by a

02:22:53.324 --> 02:23:00.702
- large number and you're doing the math that business people whose families depend on their businesses

02:23:01.154 --> 02:23:11.051
- So I gotta say, if you do this, you'll own it. And I'm not sure it's something you're gonna be feeling

02:23:11.051 --> 02:23:20.660
- good about owning in the long run. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is there anybody else online? Next

02:23:20.660 --> 02:23:31.038
- person online, take it away. Hello? Hello. Can you hear me okay? Yes, we can. Okay, this is Carol Panfield.

02:23:31.426 --> 02:23:40.966
- I'm a lifelong resident of Bloomington. And I'm now at the point in my life where I can't get around

02:23:40.966 --> 02:23:50.411
- like I once did. And I'm against closing Kirkwood permanently because it will cut me off from being

02:23:50.411 --> 02:24:00.990
- able to use things such as the BuzzChomp. I can't walk the distance. And I'd like to be able to continue to use

02:24:01.474 --> 02:24:09.638
- things in my hometown that I've been using all my life. And this will effectively cut me off from that

02:24:09.638 --> 02:24:17.564
- and other people with disability issues. So I would urge you to vote against this. Thank you. Thank

02:24:17.564 --> 02:24:25.886
- you very much. Is there anybody else online? Next person online. Take it away. Hi, my name is Ted Polly.

02:24:26.114 --> 02:24:33.085
- And I'm in favor of both a seasonal closure of Kirkwood and working towards a permanent closure of Kirkwood

02:24:33.085 --> 02:24:39.927
- to cars and creating a pedestrian only zone. I think a well designed and thoughtfully designed pedestrian

02:24:39.927 --> 02:24:46.446
- only zone would create a much needed vibrant and accessible public third space. Thank you. Thank you

02:24:46.446 --> 02:24:48.382
- so much. Anybody else online?

02:24:48.994 --> 02:24:56.289
- Okay, there's four more people online, so I don't have to go back and forth doing this. Next person,

02:24:56.289 --> 02:25:03.728
- go for it. And then the three after, go for it. I'll go next. My name's Claire Woods. I just also want

02:25:03.728 --> 02:25:11.095
- to reiterate support for this. I think a lot of the comments I'm hearing are based on assumptions and

02:25:11.095 --> 02:25:18.462
- a lot of the evidence that was presented tonight from the council, just hearing that there's a lot of

02:25:18.882 --> 02:25:24.329
- thought being put into it and a lot of potential to address many of the concerns and trust that that

02:25:24.329 --> 02:25:29.723
- is possible. And personally, as someone who was born and raised in Bloomington and used to spend an

02:25:29.723 --> 02:25:35.224
- immense amount of time specifically on Kirkwood as a young child who had two older sisters who worked

02:25:35.224 --> 02:25:40.725
- at the library and loved that part of Bloomington, it's drastically changed. And to see the potential

02:25:40.725 --> 02:25:46.334
- ideas for third space are really neat. So just want to echo support. Thank you. Thank you. Next person.

02:25:49.314 --> 02:25:55.350
- Hi, this is Dave Huber. I went to college and grad school here and live on the near west side and I

02:25:55.350 --> 02:26:01.508
- am in favor of exploring options for making downtown more pedestrian friendly. I think the framing of

02:26:01.508 --> 02:26:08.027
- whether or not to close Kirkwood to cars is hindering the conversation to some extent. I think the question

02:26:08.027 --> 02:26:14.486
- might better be asked how might we make downtown more friendly to pedestrians? And I think that introduces

02:26:14.486 --> 02:26:16.478
- a lot of ideas. I actually led a

02:26:17.026 --> 02:26:23.204
- I'm being workshop with the city downtown Bloomington a number of stakeholders. 5 summers ago and we

02:26:23.204 --> 02:26:29.503
- came up with like 30 ideas and actually tested them downtown and survey people on which ones were most

02:26:29.503 --> 02:26:35.620
- popular and things like activating the alleys and having designated spaces for buskers were some of

02:26:35.620 --> 02:26:42.348
- the most popular and so I think asking the question how might we make downtown more enjoyable for pedestrians

02:26:42.348 --> 02:26:45.406
- is wonderful and we might find out more fruitful.

02:26:45.602 --> 02:26:53.837
- answers heading that way. Thanks. Thank you very much. Next person online. And then we'll come back

02:26:53.837 --> 02:27:02.154
- to chambers. Hi. This is Joan Middendorf. I live in the near west side. Can you hear me? Yes, we can

02:27:02.154 --> 02:27:10.718
- perfectly. And I'm in favor of the partial closure of Kirkwood and working towards a permanent closure.

02:27:11.170 --> 02:27:17.713
- I traveled three times since 2023 to Netherlands because I really wanted to get ideas of what we could

02:27:17.713 --> 02:27:24.320
- do in Bloomington because they seem to have a lot of things figured out and I would say one of the most

02:27:24.320 --> 02:27:30.927
- surprising things to me was how disabled people use closed streets and I agree with the person who said

02:27:30.927 --> 02:27:37.534
- let's stop talking about closing it to parking. We're opening it up to safety for families and children

02:27:37.954 --> 02:27:44.609
- I live in the near west side so my next door neighbor is like 20 feet away on either side. It's a great

02:27:44.609 --> 02:27:51.136
- thing for community. A lot of people in Bloomington don't have community and you can get that down on

02:27:51.136 --> 02:27:57.599
- Kirkwood. I don't know if you all go down there. I go down there and places like Lenny's, they put a

02:27:57.599 --> 02:28:04.446
- tent up, they put all these tables out and it's such a cheerful and fun thing to do and I really encourage

02:28:04.446 --> 02:28:06.238
- us to do that for our city.

02:28:06.338 --> 02:28:14.075
- That will make more people wanna come and visit. Thank you very much. Thank you ever so much. We'll

02:28:14.075 --> 02:28:22.122
- come back to chambers. I saw a couple of people who sat down who would like to go. Okay, thank you very

02:28:22.122 --> 02:28:29.936
- much. Hello, my name is John Santos, concerned citizen I guess. Also own a business but not directly

02:28:29.936 --> 02:28:36.126
- on Kirkwood but so I'm in that area to see the area and I've got a lot of lists

02:28:36.930 --> 02:28:45.106
- cons versus pros, but instead of going through that, I just wanted to be the voice of reason to just

02:28:45.106 --> 02:28:53.444
- point out to use some common sense and logic when you're thinking about this, because it seems obvious

02:28:53.444 --> 02:29:02.430
- to me, but evidently doesn't to a lot of people. People are forgetting it takes vehicles to bring pedestrians.

02:29:03.042 --> 02:29:09.289
- You know, you can't cherry pick the places that have been successful and I'm not impressed with a 10%

02:29:09.289 --> 02:29:15.598
- success rate, but you're cherry picking, you know cherry picking the things that make us similar Makes

02:29:15.598 --> 02:29:21.845
- it sound great. But what are the things that we don't have that those successful places have? And one

02:29:21.845 --> 02:29:28.154
- of the things I'm betting on is they probably have a parking garage or some kind of additional parking

02:29:28.154 --> 02:29:30.910
- to bring people in or or it's a very heavily

02:29:31.394 --> 02:29:37.875
- pedestrian residential area Which Bloomington actually does have a lot of pedestrian Residents, but

02:29:37.875 --> 02:29:44.616
- those are students and they're actually gone during this period that you're looking at closing Kirkwood

02:29:44.616 --> 02:29:51.098
- So you're closing Kirkwood during the time? Bloomington has the least amount of pedestrians and the

02:29:51.098 --> 02:29:56.542
- least amount of traffic and the least amount of people the businesses actually need

02:29:57.186 --> 02:30:03.445
- And there's a lot of town people in this town that don't live within the city limits They have to have

02:30:03.445 --> 02:30:09.887
- a way to get into Kirkwood. They do come to Kirkwood in the summers, but they haven't lately just because

02:30:09.887 --> 02:30:15.964
- of the parking in the traffic flow situation and and all I ask is just to use some logic and common

02:30:15.964 --> 02:30:22.223
- sense and to determine the whole thing rather than what Looks like it could be a fun nice thing at the

02:30:22.223 --> 02:30:24.958
- end, but I don't see a path to get there and

02:30:25.378 --> 02:30:31.485
- And like someone else has said, you know, plan it better before you just do it and hope for the best.

02:30:31.485 --> 02:30:37.592
- But I do want to point out that, you know, that the only residents, the majority of them are students

02:30:37.592 --> 02:30:43.759
- that can walk there at any given time, and they're gone. Like, they're gone in the summertime. So it's

02:30:43.759 --> 02:30:49.926
- almost like you're closing at the wrong time. Like, fall, when the students come back, is probably the

02:30:49.926 --> 02:30:51.902
- better time for it to be closed.

02:30:52.450 --> 02:30:58.312
- Anybody else enjoy it they need access And then you're forgetting the street, you know, like even like

02:30:58.312 --> 02:31:04.173
- Chicago's a residential area and it you know, but there's still the street I mean all those businesses

02:31:04.173 --> 02:31:09.978
- and Residents still need to be served. They still need to get their packages delivered the businesses

02:31:09.978 --> 02:31:15.669
- still need their Products delivered all that kind of stuff emergency vehicles have to be able to go

02:31:15.669 --> 02:31:21.758
- through if there's a fire Things like that. So just you know, like said it would be nice to have something

02:31:22.338 --> 02:31:32.718
- Pedestrian but or but I don't want something five residents. Thank you five businesses. All right. Thank

02:31:32.718 --> 02:31:42.703
- you so much next person in chambers Hi, my name is Jamie shul I didn't think I'd be speaking on this

02:31:42.703 --> 02:31:48.734
- tonight it's a hot topic and I know I can see both sides and

02:31:49.602 --> 02:31:57.044
- I'm really into the sustainability. I was on that commission until pretty recently and I understand

02:31:57.044 --> 02:32:04.710
- how it's so It's it can be such a great idea and I love the Piazza's that would be in Europe I've also

02:32:04.710 --> 02:32:12.450
- been to Pearl Street when it was not functioning as we thought it would I love being able to walk there

02:32:12.450 --> 02:32:16.766
- without cars, but it was Desolate and I think I've passed

02:32:17.154 --> 02:32:26.281
- three or four other people on the whole stretch and length of that I Decided to get up and mention something

02:32:26.281 --> 02:32:34.655
- because there are a lot of people who do not contact council members and will write on social media

02:32:34.655 --> 02:32:37.502
- and this is on a Facebook post or

02:32:37.666 --> 02:32:45.452
- Which I believe I've done before when I've stood up to try and represent other perspectives that are

02:32:45.452 --> 02:32:53.161
- not being heard and a lot of them have to do with people who may be living on the west side who are

02:32:53.161 --> 02:33:00.871
- Do not have a handicapped sticker to park closely Parking is an issue There's one person so there's

02:33:00.871 --> 02:33:03.646
- almost 300 responses on the WTI you

02:33:04.098 --> 02:33:10.460
- Facebook posts when this was first heard two weeks ago One person said ultimately the most important

02:33:10.460 --> 02:33:17.075
- voices on this issue will have to be the businesses on Kirkwood as to whether this is helpful or harmful

02:33:17.075 --> 02:33:23.500
- to them To close the road to vehicular traffic. There are some expletives in some of these so I won't

02:33:23.500 --> 02:33:24.382
- mention those

02:33:24.642 --> 02:33:31.132
- on both sides. There's another one that says a member of Trinity Episcopal. It really hurts our entrance,

02:33:31.132 --> 02:33:37.438
- especially for disability parking. I do not hate it, but it does really restrict Trinity's welcome and

02:33:37.438 --> 02:33:43.928
- commitment to Bloomington. The only reason Fremont Street in Vegas worked is because they put the lighted

02:33:43.928 --> 02:33:50.602
- canopy up and have many outdoor concerts and kiosks. Just blocking Kirkwood without a substantial investment

02:33:50.602 --> 02:33:52.990
- in planning won't be great whatsoever.

02:33:54.082 --> 02:33:59.550
- I mean you all could go and read any one of those 200

02:33:59.810 --> 02:34:06.465
- almost 300 responses to get a better perspective of what is representative of the community rather than

02:34:06.465 --> 02:34:13.184
- all of us sitting here or the few that call in I just like for this to be Can all sides to be considered

02:34:13.184 --> 02:34:19.647
- and I do agree that it makes more sense to close it in the wintertime than in the summertime because

02:34:19.647 --> 02:34:26.238
- it does hinder Native Bloomingtonians who used to drive here regularly from coming and patronizing the

02:34:26.238 --> 02:34:29.118
- businesses to help keep our downtown vibrant

02:34:29.858 --> 02:34:46.590
- Thank you. Thank you so much next person in chambers Thank you, my name is Paul Gillard I'm a former

02:34:46.590 --> 02:34:59.678
- business owner on Kirkwood with a restaurant and I just wanted to speak to The

02:34:59.810 --> 02:35:06.283
- comparison of the half-year closure to versus a full year closure This may be a little premature for

02:35:06.283 --> 02:35:12.819
- the time to discuss this but I've heard more about it recently and I think this is where it's leading

02:35:12.819 --> 02:35:19.484
- to The half-year summertime closure makes a lot of sense. It's been very helpful to businesses bringing

02:35:19.484 --> 02:35:20.830
- more people downtown

02:35:21.538 --> 02:35:29.868
- The winter closure November to April becomes really difficult for a business owner the obvious reasons

02:35:29.868 --> 02:35:38.279
- parking away from Kirkwood and having to travel and the elements once people do that once or twice they

02:35:38.279 --> 02:35:46.366
- They consciously decide just not to venture downtown in the winter knowing the street is closed and

02:35:48.866 --> 02:35:55.491
- That makes if we turn the winter time into a difficult sales volume time We already know the summer

02:35:55.491 --> 02:36:02.248
- with with losing losing so much student population It's difficult for a business down there No matter

02:36:02.248 --> 02:36:09.005
- what we do with the street and try to bring more people down the the three the real three months when

02:36:09.005 --> 02:36:15.762
- students are gone It kills your sales volume and it's it's it's part of being on Kirkwood and we know

02:36:15.762 --> 02:36:18.014
- that but if we start to take away

02:36:18.146 --> 02:36:26.246
- The community and the students in the in the wintertime that volume That becomes that becomes even tougher

02:36:26.246 --> 02:36:33.967
- the students we know They find their way to the bars in the wintertime We know that but the remainder

02:36:33.967 --> 02:36:41.689
- of Kirkwood a lot of the small businesses just don't get the foot the foot traffic of students in the

02:36:41.689 --> 02:36:44.414
- elements in the weather and the the

02:36:44.962 --> 02:36:52.207
- Pedestrian bicycle data that you put up Earlier is not relevant in the winter really anymore as well.

02:36:52.207 --> 02:36:59.949
- So Again from a business owners perspective. We know that the summers already difficult If if the wintertime

02:36:59.949 --> 02:37:07.052
- becomes difficult for customers to get down there that creates a challenge for business owners that

02:37:07.052 --> 02:37:13.374
- It really may they may not be able to overcome So thank you for letting me speak tonight

02:37:13.794 --> 02:37:28.488
- Thank you so much, sir. Next person in chambers. Hi, Paul Russo again. I'm a little bit torn about this

02:37:28.488 --> 02:37:40.638
- as well, but I mostly favor it. Interesting trend that I see is that generally people

02:37:41.634 --> 02:37:48.924
- and all the people that have spoken tonight seems that most of the people who look or sound like they're

02:37:48.924 --> 02:37:55.867
- under 40 are in support of it, and those who look or sound like they're more my age are against it.

02:37:55.867 --> 02:38:03.088
- And I don't think that's a coincidence. Since I got hit by a car two years ago, I can't walk as easily.

02:38:03.088 --> 02:38:08.990
- Being able to walk long distances is now something I cannot longer take for granted.

02:38:09.186 --> 02:38:17.740
- I sympathize with my friends who have spoken against this tonight. I think the key will be how do you

02:38:17.740 --> 02:38:26.294
- get older people access from parking spaces to the front door? And I would like to suggest that we've

02:38:26.294 --> 02:38:35.267
- heard about the cart behind a horse tonight. I think horses are kind of messy. I'd rather have a bicyclist

02:38:35.267 --> 02:38:38.622
- in front of a cart, and I'd like to see

02:38:38.754 --> 02:38:50.778
- Like like you to consider pedicabs Also known as bicycle taxis And I mentioned this at the transportation

02:38:50.778 --> 02:39:02.235
- Meeting, I think they I can envision a program in which the city has selects people to be registered

02:39:02.235 --> 02:39:03.710
- and approved

02:39:03.842 --> 02:39:10.261
- who shuttle people back and forth between parking garages and the Kirkwood area, especially

02:39:10.261 --> 02:39:17.447
- in the summertime, especially in the evenings, I suppose, when people want to go out to eat. So I hope

02:39:17.447 --> 02:39:24.633
- that sort of thing gets considered in the deliberations to follow. Yeah, but I still generally support

02:39:24.633 --> 02:39:31.679
- this. I think this is the wave of the future. I think that the data... How are the cops doing? How's

02:39:31.679 --> 02:39:33.214
- the basketball doing?

02:39:33.602 --> 02:39:47.091
- Mr. Mr. Stirbomb, you're unmuted. Please mute yourself. Thank you Yeah I lost my train of thought I

02:39:47.091 --> 02:40:00.580
- Was going to say that the data that that is old is especially out of date because it was before the

02:40:00.580 --> 02:40:02.334
- pandemic and

02:40:03.778 --> 02:40:12.598
- I think we all saw the pandemic really changed a lot of things and spurred momentum towards these kind

02:40:12.598 --> 02:40:21.504
- of pedestrian zones Not just here, but all over the country and in Europe. So please consider that too.

02:40:21.504 --> 02:40:30.067
- Thank you Thank you any other commenters in chambers, please go ahead But I'm Jessica I'm a manager

02:40:30.067 --> 02:40:33.150
- at one of the businesses around and

02:40:34.082 --> 02:40:44.241
- I'm a single mother so Closing of Kirkwood decisions that are made in this room directly whether or

02:40:44.241 --> 02:40:54.399
- not can provide for my family because it Could cause businesses to close down there You aren't just

02:40:54.399 --> 02:41:02.526
- debating urban design or pedestrian walkways debating the ability of and things

02:41:03.618 --> 02:41:12.935
- Sorry, I urge you to keep Kirkwood open the reality of the business model We are a business of convenience

02:41:12.935 --> 02:41:22.078
- and spontaneous and Julie which Is considering parents driving home with their kids and families running

02:41:22.078 --> 02:41:29.566
- errands downtown and elderly residents looking for a quick treat treat to rely on and

02:41:29.890 --> 02:41:37.616
- Being able to access our block when Kirkwood is closed They are gonna just move on move along. They're

02:41:37.616 --> 02:41:44.592
- not gonna stop in and see us. So that's gonna rely on the business being Empty streets bring

02:41:44.592 --> 02:41:52.393
- more pedestrians, but the exact opposite Daily visits on Kurt to Kirkwood actually dropped by 8% during

02:41:52.393 --> 02:41:59.294
- a recent closures For business like ours that 8% drop isn't just a statistic comes cheap. I

02:42:00.386 --> 02:42:08.764
- It means fewer customers lower sales and fewer tips for the hard-working staff that I manage furthermore

02:42:08.764 --> 02:42:17.301
- The practical nightmare furthermore running shop requires consistent logistical Support we need deliveries

02:42:17.301 --> 02:42:26.078
- of dairy supplies and all of those things we can't have somebody just put a time limit somebody said time but

02:42:26.498 --> 02:42:36.417
- We can't tell a big company that they can only come at this certain time. So that wouldn't necessarily

02:42:36.417 --> 02:42:46.337
- work. So that will make my job more difficult. We cannot run a successful downtown economy on weekends

02:42:46.337 --> 02:42:55.582
- and festival hours alone. Now, those are great. That brings in business, but the city's current

02:42:56.450 --> 02:43:03.361
- Parkland model already works. It gives restaurants outdoor seating without destroying the traffic flow

02:43:03.361 --> 02:43:10.339
- retail for social link shops Like ours desperately need to survive Please remember downtown Bloomington

02:43:10.339 --> 02:43:17.049
- is sustained by real people working Demanding hours and keep our community vibrant Do not sacrifice

02:43:17.049 --> 02:43:24.094
- the livelihoods and local workers and independent shops for experiment on the data that shows is failing

02:43:25.122 --> 02:43:34.621
- Keep our streets accessible protect our local workers and vote no Thank you Thank you very much Are

02:43:34.621 --> 02:43:44.499
- there any other comments in? chamber All right Let's come back. I'm sorry one more online person online

02:43:44.499 --> 02:43:46.494
- Close us out, please

02:43:48.546 --> 02:43:54.096
- Thank you. I just wanted to comment in support. I think we're hearing a lot of opposition and a lot

02:43:54.096 --> 02:43:59.646
- of assumptions being made The first one I'll comment on is the comment about you need cars to bring

02:43:59.646 --> 02:44:05.251
- people places I actually opt for walking and biking as often as possible and I don't bring my car so

02:44:05.251 --> 02:44:10.801
- I don't think that that's a valid point We have parking garages. We have buses. We have bike paths.

02:44:10.801 --> 02:44:16.351
- We have sidewalks We have all the infrastructure that would support getting people downtown without

02:44:16.351 --> 02:44:17.406
- using a car I have

02:44:17.634 --> 02:44:22.368
- regularly used the downtown area in the Kirkwood area in the last two summers when this has been an

02:44:22.368 --> 02:44:27.244
- option and I will actually and I'm already finding myself not going downtown as often because it's not

02:44:27.244 --> 02:44:32.073
- built and set up the same way that it has been the last two summers. I think it's really easy to push

02:44:32.073 --> 02:44:37.043
- back on the data and say that there's failure but the data that was presented today very clearly painted

02:44:37.043 --> 02:44:41.919
- a picture that in the right conditions with the right factors being considered and the right logistics

02:44:41.919 --> 02:44:46.890
- being planned for it can be very successful and I think we're hearing a lot of pushback that is grounded

02:44:46.890 --> 02:44:47.600
- in assumptions

02:44:47.600 --> 02:44:53.168
- that it will be a failure, but if we're planning this properly and we're taking into consideration things

02:44:53.168 --> 02:44:58.474
- like disabled people, then it can be a lot more successful. This is also kind of narrowly focused on

02:44:58.474 --> 02:44:59.262
- people who are

02:44:59.330 --> 02:45:04.895
- disabled from a physical standpoint in one specific category. It's not taking into consideration people

02:45:04.895 --> 02:45:10.407
- who actually want to spend time outside in safer places with cleaner air, not inside of a building for

02:45:10.407 --> 02:45:16.025
- someone who might be COVID cautious like myself and actually depends on being able to eat at restaurants

02:45:16.025 --> 02:45:21.376
- outside in the summer. And I can't do that in the winter and I'm a year long resident. I am someone

02:45:21.376 --> 02:45:26.781
- who was born and raised here and I love towny summer and I love spending time downtown and on campus

02:45:26.781 --> 02:45:29.296
- in the summer. So I think the argument against

02:45:29.296 --> 02:45:34.216
- students not being there and the business not being there because the students leave is not a valid

02:45:34.216 --> 02:45:39.382
- one. We see more and more students staying around through the summer every single year and the residents

02:45:39.382 --> 02:45:44.401
- most of the people that I spend time around they look forward to being able to access downtown and be

02:45:44.401 --> 02:45:49.321
- able to do things and use things without the students overrunning that. So I think again not really

02:45:49.321 --> 02:45:50.846
- a valid argument for everyone.

02:45:50.914 --> 02:45:56.193
- I think I would just urge people to consider the fact that many of the fears that we're hearing today

02:45:56.193 --> 02:46:01.472
- are grounded on the fact that we are assuming this will fail. They are not being grounded in the fact

02:46:01.472 --> 02:46:06.906
- that we have a choice here to plan intentionally and budget for these things and make it more accessible

02:46:06.906 --> 02:46:12.133
- for disabled people, make it more accessible for folks who need to get there physically. But we need

02:46:12.133 --> 02:46:17.412
- to be thinking about the collective needs here and it sounds like residents are really in support and

02:46:17.412 --> 02:46:20.880
- the residents want to support the businesses and they will do that

02:46:20.880 --> 02:46:27.096
- If we support making this a pedestrian space if we're not listening to the residents who want to go

02:46:27.096 --> 02:46:33.685
- spend the money downtown Then what's the point of all this? So I would just urge you to zoom out a little

02:46:33.685 --> 02:46:39.964
- bit and not be so rooted in the fears here and be Rooted in what the data says about situations like

02:46:39.964 --> 02:46:46.180
- ours and cities like ours and how that can be successful. Thank you Thank you so much and I'm I was

02:46:46.180 --> 02:46:50.718
- asked for you to say your name for the record or some alias or something

02:46:53.506 --> 02:47:02.523
- The last person. Maybe they're gone. No, no, no, no, the person online. Okay, fantastic. Well, there's

02:47:02.523 --> 02:47:11.539
- two more people. Okay, well, two more people. Go ahead, two more people. Hi, my name is Alex York, for

02:47:11.539 --> 02:47:19.943
- the record. Sorry, I've had my hand up and down. I've been putting my kids to bed this evening.

02:47:19.943 --> 02:47:21.694
- And yeah, that's...

02:47:23.522 --> 02:47:30.408
- They're not asleep yet and I hope they don't call, so I'm just going to say that the last speaker, I

02:47:30.408 --> 02:47:37.293
- fully embraced their comments and would like to second them and will add the additional detail. I am

02:47:37.293 --> 02:47:44.383
- a father of two young children. We have been in that Perkwood area on occasions when it has been closed

02:47:44.383 --> 02:47:51.678
- for events, and it is a beautiful place to be with my children as a family. And if the street were closed,

02:47:51.906 --> 02:48:00.962
- we would frequent there much more often. And also to the economic concerns and things, going back to

02:48:00.962 --> 02:48:10.557
- the first comment from Zach, I fully agree that there's a much higher risk of failure if there's a failure

02:48:10.557 --> 02:48:19.523
- of imagination but the closure. We have to do this. If you do it, you must do it right. Which means

02:48:19.523 --> 02:48:20.958
- that, you know,

02:48:21.666 --> 02:48:28.994
- splitting the year is never going to be as successful because you can't have the correct infrastructure

02:48:28.994 --> 02:48:36.112
- for both vehicles and a pedestrian ball. So yeah, just those are the factors that I encourage you to

02:48:36.112 --> 02:48:43.158
- consider. I would love to see this happen. And thank you very much. Thank you very much. All right,

02:48:43.158 --> 02:48:50.346
- now last person online. Close us out, please. Sorry, hey, I couldn't unmute myself earlier. I was the

02:48:50.346 --> 02:48:51.614
- previous speaker.

02:48:51.810 --> 02:48:59.981
- I just wanted to comment my name for the record. My name is Tessa Donahue. Thank you so much.

02:48:59.981 --> 02:49:08.935
- Thank you. Thank you. All right, back to council. All right, back to public comment. One last comment.

02:49:08.935 --> 02:49:17.628
- Now, if you have not raised your hand at this point, after this, I'm not going to relent. Go person

02:49:17.628 --> 02:49:20.062
- online, your chance. Hello.

02:49:20.194 --> 02:49:26.572
- Good evening, I'm on a family vacation on the East Coast right now, but I wanted to hop on quickly and

02:49:26.572 --> 02:49:33.073
- just share an email I had sent to council in case you hadn't read it. I did mistakenly say my children's

02:49:33.073 --> 02:49:39.327
- ages. My son is nine and my daughter is eight. Katie and Jeff Yoder are our names and I'm just going

02:49:39.327 --> 02:49:45.891
- to read from the email that I shared with council. When Kirkwood was closed to vehicle traffic, it became

02:49:45.891 --> 02:49:47.934
- a place we wanted to spend time.

02:49:48.130 --> 02:49:54.201
- a third place if you will, we would bike and run and walk downtown, linger after meals, browse shops,

02:49:54.201 --> 02:50:00.510
- run into friends, and enjoy being part of the community. It felt safer, more welcoming, and more inviting

02:50:00.510 --> 02:50:06.938
- for families. Instead of hurrying from one destination to another, we stayed. As parents, we are constantly

02:50:06.938 --> 02:50:13.247
- evaluating spaces through the lens of safety. We teach our children to watch for traffic, use crosswalks,

02:50:13.247 --> 02:50:15.390
- and be aware of distracted drivers.

02:50:16.066 --> 02:50:22.516
- While cars are a necessary part of our community, not every space needs to be designed around them.

02:50:22.516 --> 02:50:29.095
- A pedestrian-focused Kirkwood gives families a place where people, not vehicles, are the priority. We

02:50:29.095 --> 02:50:35.609
- understand that where there are concerns about costs, implementation, and other areas of Bloomington

02:50:35.609 --> 02:50:42.253
- that also need investment, those are important conversations to have. However, we do not believe those

02:50:42.253 --> 02:50:44.446
- priorities are mutually exclusive

02:50:45.090 --> 02:50:52.404
- Bloomington can continue improving pedestrian safety and infrastructure throughout the city while also

02:50:52.404 --> 02:51:00.003
- creating welcoming spaces in its vibrant downtown core. Our own neighborhood is currently being considered

02:51:00.003 --> 02:51:07.104
- for pedestrian and cyclist improvements after a child was struck by a careless driver. And this was

02:51:07.104 --> 02:51:13.566
- a close neighbor and friend of our children. And this was on the transportation commission

02:51:13.698 --> 02:51:20.451
- We've discussed this extensively. That experience has reinforced the importance of designing communities

02:51:20.451 --> 02:51:27.076
- that prioritize people. We are encouraged when Bloomington invests in safer, more walkable spaces, and

02:51:27.076 --> 02:51:33.765
- we see a pedestrianized Kirkwood as an extension of those same values. Bloomington's own transportation

02:51:33.765 --> 02:51:38.718
- planning already recognizes that different streets serve different purposes.

02:51:39.330 --> 02:51:46.550
- Some corridors are designed to move traffic efficiently while others, other places where people gather,

02:51:46.550 --> 02:51:53.561
- walk, shop, and connect. Kirkwood sits at the heart of our city and our downtown. Investing in it as

02:51:53.561 --> 02:52:00.920
- a people-focused space aligns with Bloomington's broader commitment to walkability, safety, and a vibrant

02:52:00.920 --> 02:52:05.502
- public spaces. What we appreciated most about a car-free Kirkwood

02:52:05.634 --> 02:52:12.372
- was not simply the absence of cars, it was the presence of people, families, students, residents, visitors,

02:52:12.372 --> 02:52:18.736
- and friends all sharing a common space. It felt like the kind of downtown that draws people in rather

02:52:18.736 --> 02:52:25.100
- than moves them through. As a family, we spent more time downtown when Kirkwood was closed. We stayed

02:52:25.100 --> 02:52:31.339
- longer for more businesses. I'm so sorry, that's your time. Thank you. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of

02:52:31.339 --> 02:52:34.334
- your vacation, and everyone, we made it through

02:52:34.434 --> 02:52:45.044
- Thank you for your wonderful comments and we're back to counsel. I'm sorry. Stop it We're back to counsel

02:52:45.044 --> 02:52:55.053
- for final comments before a vote anyone all right councilmember Ella Yes, thanks, well first let me

02:52:55.053 --> 02:53:04.062
- say I thank my colleagues for bringing this forward I I'm too torn I some of the comments

02:53:04.258 --> 02:53:11.104
- Terry too much here, but obviously there are mixed views and those all need to be considered I think

02:53:11.104 --> 02:53:18.357
- I'm sort of flying blind at this point in terms of understanding the disposition of The community although

02:53:18.357 --> 02:53:25.814
- we've had a lot of public comment and there's a lot to consider. I'm particularly sensitive to The businesses

02:53:25.814 --> 02:53:32.660
- on Kirkwood and those surrounding it. I've only had the opportunity to speak just today with Michael

02:53:32.660 --> 02:53:33.406
- Mazer from

02:53:33.602 --> 02:53:42.313
- imports John Santos and I had a brief conversation, but I want to extend that and hear more from him

02:53:42.313 --> 02:53:51.197
- and others Lots to consider here Councilmember daily talked about the impact of the Convention Center,

02:53:51.197 --> 02:53:59.994
- which is going to open in early 2027. Hopefully That's going to have a profound I think impact on the

02:53:59.994 --> 02:54:01.374
- success of this

02:54:01.826 --> 02:54:09.241
- There has to be a lot more mr. MG talked about metrics for success. I absolutely think that we need

02:54:09.241 --> 02:54:16.953
- those we have to have assurances of probability of success I Heard a comment about if it occurs it must

02:54:16.953 --> 02:54:24.591
- be done, right? Obviously we have to do this Full be fully invested in if we do it and with that comes

02:54:24.591 --> 02:54:31.710
- the necessity for funding Which is of course important consideration is grant funding available

02:54:31.906 --> 02:54:41.771
- Accessibility concerns a paramount to me as well So my view is To bookmark this for the future And to

02:54:41.771 --> 02:54:51.732
- revisit it through a series of deliberation sessions so that we can we can really dive deep into these

02:54:51.732 --> 02:55:01.694
- particulars and make sure that Whatever trade-offs are made Makes sense and that success is assured so

02:55:01.858 --> 02:55:10.026
- I'll be supporting this for now tentatively with you know the expectation that we will visit this again

02:55:10.026 --> 02:55:18.116
- in various forms and have a better idea of What what we will do at that time, so? Thank you. Thank you

02:55:18.116 --> 02:55:26.206
- very much council members who look thank you I guess I'll start off by saying that in a perfect world.

02:55:26.206 --> 02:55:29.662
- I would love to see Kirkwood pedestrianized

02:55:30.018 --> 02:55:35.358
- But I don't feel that the current state of Kirkwood is the version that we would like to see closed.

02:55:35.358 --> 02:55:40.699
- If you spent time on Kirkwood last year when it was closed, folks might have noticed that the street

02:55:40.699 --> 02:55:46.251
- was fairly empty, especially during the periods where students were not in town. That is not the vibrant

02:55:46.251 --> 02:55:51.961
- Kirkwood that we would all like to see. The kinds of changes that would be required to do so are incredibly

02:55:51.961 --> 02:55:57.566
- expensive, and I'm not convinced that that's the best use of our funds that are currently pretty limited.

02:55:57.730 --> 02:56:03.367
- Councilmember Piedmont Smith brought up last week. There are many other streets including South Walnut

02:56:03.367 --> 02:56:09.114
- a major corridor that needs some serious investment to While it is a blessing that Kirkwood and district

02:56:09.114 --> 02:56:14.751
- six are getting so much attention We do already spend a significant amount of money on the maintenance

02:56:14.751 --> 02:56:20.279
- of Kirkwood more than any other street and I think we could spread the love a little bit more around

02:56:20.279 --> 02:56:20.990
- the city and

02:56:21.666 --> 02:56:27.729
- And I have many more thoughts on this but I will spare you all a big thank you to council members Rosenberger

02:56:27.729 --> 02:56:33.297
- and daily for Continuing to have conversations about this with me and working to solve issues raised

02:56:33.297 --> 02:56:38.809
- in previous meetings if this passes I promise not to bite my nose to spite my face and I will do my

02:56:38.809 --> 02:56:44.486
- best to Support further activation efforts and investments that bring the city to life that said given

02:56:44.486 --> 02:56:48.510
- our current financial situation I cannot support this tonight. Thank you

02:56:49.154 --> 02:56:54.825
- Thank you councilmember Stasberg then councilmember Piedmont Smith Thank you So I've put a lot of thought

02:56:54.825 --> 02:57:00.497
- into this decision and for those of you who follow council meetings at all, you know If I write something

02:57:00.497 --> 02:57:05.901
- out then I'm really serious and I've actually written something out and tried to put little edits in

02:57:05.901 --> 02:57:11.786
- it as we've gone on tonight so I'm really hoping that it still makes sense, so The pro-con list is relatively

02:57:11.786 --> 02:57:14.622
- balanced for this issue and public sentiment doesn't

02:57:14.722 --> 02:57:19.764
- Strongly lean to either direction. There is not an argument or a vote that will work for everyone My

02:57:19.764 --> 02:57:24.907
- decision tree has involved doing my best to look at the big picture of pedestrian malls the importance

02:57:24.907 --> 02:57:29.899
- of community space and how this fits into the Reality that is Bloomington with regard to pedestrian

02:57:29.899 --> 02:57:35.091
- malls. It has been acknowledged that though most pedestrian malls have failed There are success stories

02:57:35.091 --> 02:57:40.084
- and the successes are pretty great. I've lived in a town that had a failed pedestrian mall, but I'm

02:57:40.084 --> 02:57:41.182
- also from Vermont and

02:57:41.314 --> 02:57:46.735
- Shoppers from all over the state had to Church Street for their shopping deans The approach I took was

02:57:46.735 --> 02:57:52.262
- to look at some of the successes that were cited Pearl Street Church Street, Iowa City Ithaca and figure

02:57:52.262 --> 02:57:57.578
- out what might be contributing to their success and whether Kirkwood reflected those same attributes

02:57:57.578 --> 02:58:03.262
- the biggest commonality that was that the biggest commonality was that pedestrianized streets see successes

02:58:03.262 --> 02:58:08.894
- in college towns and we are that but there were several other areas where I think Kirkwood falls short and

02:58:09.218 --> 02:58:14.976
- For starters the number of established retail establishments and restaurants are a lot higher in those

02:58:14.976 --> 02:58:20.623
- places than on Kirkwood Even though the pedestrianized space is often shorter and I'm just gonna say

02:58:20.623 --> 02:58:26.269
- I'm gonna call out Church Street in Burlington a little bit because I'm a Vermonter and you know, we

02:58:26.269 --> 02:58:32.139
- can put that title up there Oh Burlington only has 40,000 people but their urbanized area is much bigger

02:58:32.139 --> 02:58:35.102
- and you know, they were like the last state to get a

02:58:35.202 --> 02:58:42.307
- Big-box stores which meant 30 years ago 35 40 years ago when I was a kid Like you drove hours to get

02:58:42.307 --> 02:58:49.623
- to a mall because there were not malls anywhere, right? So it really drew people from all over not just

02:58:49.623 --> 02:58:56.798
- from the Burlington population and not even just from the metro area which is now over 200,000 people

02:58:56.930 --> 02:59:03.437
- Right now they are four blocks and they have over a hundred retail and restaurant establishments We're

02:59:03.437 --> 02:59:10.196
- talking about five blocks of Kirkwood and I actually Thank you for the assist from I think DBI Bloomington

02:59:10.196 --> 02:59:16.576
- We have 32 restaurants and 14 retail places down there on Kirkwood right now. That's just not enough

02:59:16.576 --> 02:59:23.020
- density of Destination to be as successful I think as we want it to be so getting back to Bloomington

02:59:23.020 --> 02:59:26.494
- a little bit and getting back to what I actually wrote

02:59:26.850 --> 02:59:33.814
- Sample gates to the square. It's five full blocks. It's almost half a mile. It's an extremely long stretch

02:59:33.814 --> 02:59:40.322
- the slideshow said that one of the things that cited success was short streets short stretches five

02:59:40.322 --> 02:59:47.090
- blocks half a mile is not short it is incredibly long and There are not very many Establishments there.

02:59:47.090 --> 02:59:51.646
- So I also looked at parking and not because I love parking in cars. I

02:59:51.714 --> 02:59:57.080
- But because the success of this space will depend on visit numbers and vehicular travel is one way that

02:59:57.080 --> 03:00:02.342
- visitors come to this area And I want to say there's a whole bunch of stuff in this written statement

03:00:02.342 --> 03:00:07.708
- that overlap several comments That that the public made here tonight So the successful pedestrian malls

03:00:07.708 --> 03:00:12.867
- that I examined and you know, I'm looking at them on Google Maps. I'm I'm doing the street view I'm

03:00:12.867 --> 03:00:18.078
- looking at the overhead, you know what they had parking garages adjacent to the pedestrian space and

03:00:18.146 --> 03:00:25.026
- you could walk out of the parking garage and on to the pedestrian space and We don't have that right

03:00:25.026 --> 03:00:31.838
- now now could we have that? Potentially do we have some surface parking lots that are pretty close.

03:00:31.838 --> 03:00:38.786
- Yes, but we don't particularly advertise that very well Okay, and there's still their surface parking

03:00:38.786 --> 03:00:43.486
- spots. They are usually full Parking really does become an issue and

03:00:43.810 --> 03:00:48.736
- And then lastly as somebody else also pointed out I looked at pictures and designs of the pedestrian

03:00:48.736 --> 03:00:53.663
- spaces and the successful pedestrian spaces Are not closed to vehicular traffic for only part of the

03:00:53.663 --> 03:00:58.784
- year. They are closed to vehicles year-round sometimes with exceptions for specifically timed deliveries

03:00:58.784 --> 03:01:03.955
- and that allows the middle of the street development for planting public art and other interesting street

03:01:03.955 --> 03:01:09.320
- features a seasonal closure on Kirkwood allows for only minimal infrastructure changes to optimize pedestrian

03:01:09.320 --> 03:01:10.686
- enjoyment of the street and

03:01:11.970 --> 03:01:17.625
- Short I don't think what we have right now on Kirkwood spells success for a closure to vehicular traffic

03:01:17.625 --> 03:01:23.550
- Especially one that requires closure as this ordinance does of five complete blocks for only part of the year

03:01:23.874 --> 03:01:28.933
- Well, I think it is possible to create a vibrant and exciting pedestrian street in Bloomington. Perhaps

03:01:28.933 --> 03:01:33.993
- even on Kirkwood It will take a significant investment to get there and that brings me to the next part

03:01:33.993 --> 03:01:38.955
- of my consideration that the sponsors have argued that this kind of ordinance is what is necessary to

03:01:38.955 --> 03:01:43.916
- force the administration's hand to make investments in a pedestrianized Kirkwood and meet the council

03:01:43.916 --> 03:01:49.170
- cited priorities related to third spaces and community growth and I lean toward agreeing with my colleagues

03:01:49.170 --> 03:01:50.046
- on that point and

03:01:50.402 --> 03:01:56.361
- I'm deeply disappointed with how the decision to remain open to vehicles was made this year The process

03:01:56.361 --> 03:02:02.262
- did not recognize how ordinance 2025 02 had been written and is another example of this administration

03:02:02.262 --> 03:02:08.508
- Not giving attention to the decisions of this legislative body That said for me a yes vote tonight indicates

03:02:08.508 --> 03:02:14.295
- that I strongly support significant budgetary investment into a robust plan to convert Kirkwood from

03:02:14.295 --> 03:02:17.790
- sample gates to the square into a pedestrian optimized space

03:02:18.082 --> 03:02:24.130
- Some people may not like hearing this, but if we invest significant funds into a space like this, which

03:02:24.130 --> 03:02:30.003
- I'm not certain that we should do at all, I'm not even convinced that the five blocks of Kirkwood is

03:02:30.003 --> 03:02:36.051
- the best place to do it. While there is, as was cited in our budget priorities for this year, full body

03:02:36.051 --> 03:02:41.866
- agreement on investment in third spaces, a specific third space is not cited, and I have to ask the

03:02:41.866 --> 03:02:48.030
- question to myself, is Kirkwood the best place for this? Is that what we should close? If we did do that,

03:02:48.130 --> 03:02:54.124
- My answer right now is maybe and I'm interested and excited about the upcoming deliberation session

03:02:54.124 --> 03:03:00.597
- That will happen eventually to kind of talk about that because maybe a different space should be considered

03:03:00.597 --> 03:03:06.891
- maybe if we're going to convert vehicle space into people space we should think about 4th Street between

03:03:06.891 --> 03:03:08.030
- done and grant and

03:03:08.322 --> 03:03:14.683
- Because there's so many restaurants there and so much shade. Maybe we should think about The Kirkwood

03:03:14.683 --> 03:03:20.983
- block on the square or maybe we should think about the 6th Street block on the square if we're gonna

03:03:20.983 --> 03:03:27.282
- invest in third spaces with with additional monies should we invest in places like along the beeline

03:03:27.282 --> 03:03:34.142
- park and switch our park right which somebody also mentioned as being super active right now and I just can't

03:03:34.274 --> 03:03:41.526
- Commit right now to saying yes, let's have this big monetary investment specifically in these five blocks

03:03:41.526 --> 03:03:48.505
- of Kirkwood So I suspect that my five minutes is is up And probably the two after that last thing I'm

03:03:48.505 --> 03:03:55.757
- gonna say is that the end of this climate plan action a climate action plan action that was cited earlier

03:03:55.757 --> 03:03:58.494
- and is cited in the amendment says that

03:03:59.298 --> 03:04:05.159
- They should establish implementation based on Kirkwood pilot project observations and recommendations

03:04:05.159 --> 03:04:11.250
- evaluate feasibility of Limiting vehicles on certain days of the week and implementing congestion parking

03:04:11.250 --> 03:04:16.996
- pricing where appropriate So somebody mentioned cherry picking certain things and I think that that

03:04:16.996 --> 03:04:22.743
- was something that was cherry picks staff has clearly said That you know based on the pilot project

03:04:22.743 --> 03:04:27.742
- observations and recommendations they're interested in implementing something else and

03:04:27.842 --> 03:04:37.246
- I just, I cannot support this tonight for all of those reasons. Thank you very much. Thank you so much,

03:04:37.246 --> 03:04:46.470
- Council Member Piedmont-Smith. Yes, thank you. First of all, I'd like to say that I, my video was off

03:04:46.470 --> 03:04:55.603
- for some of the public comment, but I was listening to the public comment. So I find myself agreeing

03:04:55.603 --> 03:04:57.502
- with almost everyone

03:04:58.626 --> 03:05:08.755
- So I agree that ultimately it would be, it is a great goal to have Kirkwood or part of Kirkwood be a

03:05:08.755 --> 03:05:18.885
- pedestrian zone. I've supported that ever since I voted for the transportation plan in 2019. I loved

03:05:18.885 --> 03:05:27.710
- sitting out on Kirkwood when it was closed and having dinner. Only in the shade though.

03:05:27.906 --> 03:05:37.748
- And I do recognize the importance of third spaces. At the same time, I think that a deliberation session

03:05:37.748 --> 03:05:47.215
- should happen before we change our city code. We are putting this in city code. This is not like the

03:05:47.215 --> 03:05:57.150
- other steps we took where we were like, this is use of right of way in Title 12. No, this is in Title 15.

03:05:57.666 --> 03:06:06.907
- We're saying these streets shall be, this street shall be closed from this and this date. That is a

03:06:06.907 --> 03:06:16.517
- really big step to take before we have a deliberation session. I think that we have some good data from

03:06:16.517 --> 03:06:26.590
- previous years. We have not as much data as I would like. I think there was some missteps in gathering real,

03:06:27.010 --> 03:06:37.815
- feedback that we could really use to make decisions. I think there's also been CPU projects and construction

03:06:37.815 --> 03:06:47.729
- projects that have gotten in the way of the pilot's programs. Overall, I think there are, there are

03:06:47.729 --> 03:06:56.254
- not, there's no, to me there's not an urgency to put this in our code now. Especially

03:06:56.482 --> 03:07:04.278
- if we, seeing that our revenue sources are going to be limited in the coming years because of what the

03:07:04.278 --> 03:07:12.150
- state legislature has done. I just don't think it's fiscally wise to put this in our ordinance and then

03:07:12.150 --> 03:07:20.401
- say we'll figure out the funding later before we've had any deliberation sessions. So I do really appreciate

03:07:20.401 --> 03:07:26.078
- all the work that council members Rosenberger and Daly have put into this,

03:07:26.338 --> 03:07:32.336
- Will not be supporting it tonight. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm councilmember Flaherty. Thank you

03:07:32.336 --> 03:07:38.217
- Yeah, I really appreciate all the public comment and discussion That we've had this year and all the

03:07:38.217 --> 03:07:44.040
- previous years When we've discussed this it's much of the same conversation every year It changes a

03:07:44.040 --> 03:07:49.862
- little bit based on experience of perception and what's going on at the Statehouse I generally have

03:07:49.862 --> 03:07:53.822
- held the view for a long time since before I served on council that

03:07:54.082 --> 03:08:01.293
- we can do great things in Bloomington and that we have a unique and really, you know, special opportunity

03:08:01.293 --> 03:08:08.164
- between the courthouse square and the sample gates to design a shared street and to have that street

03:08:08.164 --> 03:08:15.035
- be pedestrian focused for much of many times in the year. I think this is a good step that basically

03:08:15.035 --> 03:08:21.022
- just does better what we already did with a vote of 9-0 in ordinance 2025-02 last year.

03:08:21.218 --> 03:08:27.570
- So it's interesting to reflect that I don't know how the final it's gonna end up here. It sounds like

03:08:27.570 --> 03:08:34.047
- it's gonna be close It's an instrument reflect that nine of us supported creating a local law last year

03:08:34.047 --> 03:08:40.523
- that would do exactly what this ordinance does and And now maybe half the folks are not so sure anymore

03:08:40.523 --> 03:08:46.813
- And just kind of I'm not quite sure why I've listened to their comments And and there's a few things

03:08:46.813 --> 03:08:50.238
- kind of emerging One but but again, this is already in

03:08:50.626 --> 03:08:57.386
- Already a local law. We're just sort of closing a loophole through which the mayor without really any

03:08:57.386 --> 03:09:04.278
- Real consultation with the counselor asked asked for asking for input Decided to just close the program

03:09:04.278 --> 03:09:11.170
- for this year. So that's why we're back We're not talking from a funding perspective the transportation

03:09:11.170 --> 03:09:17.863
- plan calls for not a corridor study It calls for a redesign of Kirkwood as a shared street. That's a

03:09:17.863 --> 03:09:19.454
- design question there I

03:09:19.554 --> 03:09:25.398
- Think is funding coming proposed for next year to undertake that design charrette process and redesign,

03:09:25.398 --> 03:09:31.185
- but it's not a corridor study Just want to clarify that That's what the major expense will be. I don't

03:09:31.185 --> 03:09:37.085
- know on what timeline we're gonna be able to do that It might be five ten fifteen years before we remove

03:09:37.085 --> 03:09:42.817
- the curbs on Kirkwood from you know walnut to to Indiana Avenue and actually design it maybe in a way

03:09:42.817 --> 03:09:48.436
- that looks a little bit like Hopewell comments or something like that those types of materials, you

03:09:48.436 --> 03:09:49.054
- know flush

03:09:49.154 --> 03:09:54.679
- Street That's the big expense piece. We've already been doing this for a number of years at relatively

03:09:54.679 --> 03:10:00.204
- low expense Can it be better than it's been? Absolutely. It can be that's that's the vision and I hear

03:10:00.204 --> 03:10:05.837
- my colleagues who are gonna vote no tonight also supporting that vision But that vision takes commitment

03:10:05.837 --> 03:10:11.309
- the the idea that we're gonna get there by saying well I'm not sure where the funding is coming from.

03:10:11.309 --> 03:10:16.780
- So I'm just gonna keep waiting. I Just respectfully disagree that's gonna get us anywhere. I think if

03:10:16.780 --> 03:10:18.014
- we vote no on this and

03:10:18.594 --> 03:10:25.933
- That's all but a guarantee that as long as mayor Tom's in an office in office. There's this isn't happening

03:10:25.933 --> 03:10:32.728
- So, you know, I think it's appropriate for us to take a step that Resolidifies what we decided as a

03:10:32.728 --> 03:10:39.523
- body 9-0 at the beginning of last year to commit to this on a seasonal basis Starting from where we

03:10:39.523 --> 03:10:46.590
- are and getting better over time so I think we need that certainty like I mentioned earlier in order to

03:10:47.074 --> 03:10:52.434
- That is the horse in the car's analogy in my view and the details of Trade-offs including the trade-offs

03:10:52.434 --> 03:10:57.795
- and of you know the status quo and what we're giving up by maintaining what the way things are now Those

03:10:57.795 --> 03:11:02.951
- all need to be considered and deliberation sessions are great places for that but we've had a lot of

03:11:02.951 --> 03:11:08.158
- public comment and discussion on this over the years and There just isn't a consensus view, but we do

03:11:08.158 --> 03:11:13.263
- have a lot of city plans and goals that speak pretty clearly to this so I'll be supporting it and I

03:11:13.263 --> 03:11:14.846
- hope it passes and I hope that

03:11:14.978 --> 03:11:22.773
- Regardless of the outcome. We'll keep out in the conversation, but I really do think that if we can't

03:11:22.773 --> 03:11:30.720
- pass this tonight, you know Under this mayor anyway that this idea is probably done. Thank you so much.

03:11:30.720 --> 03:11:37.598
- That's my flirty Councilmember rough First of all, I want to thank the sponsors because I

03:11:38.338 --> 03:11:46.710
- Not only did I know they worked hard thought hard did a lot of outreach talked a lot of people made

03:11:46.710 --> 03:11:55.667
- compromises made changes reached out for input to all of us and It's always inspiring to me to see council

03:11:55.667 --> 03:12:04.290
- members work together On an initiative so I know that That happened this time and I appreciate it very

03:12:04.290 --> 03:12:07.806
- much. I also want to say I appreciate the

03:12:08.354 --> 03:12:17.301
- Apparently sounds like the Trust Transportation Commission is taking staff Input as advisory

03:12:17.301 --> 03:12:27.210
- as recommendations and I like to know that that's the orientation that the Commission has Just so When

03:12:27.210 --> 03:12:36.926
- the age thing keeps coming up as it has across the many recent years it it rubs me the wrong way and

03:12:37.442 --> 03:12:49.074
- I'm old I'm gonna be I'll be 65 next year but I still 90% of my thousands and thousands and thousands

03:12:49.074 --> 03:13:00.592
- of trips up and down Kirkwood over the last 55 years Have been either by bike or on foot 90% of them

03:13:00.592 --> 03:13:04.926
- always I Really see all the arguments

03:13:05.282 --> 03:13:11.358
- There's good arguments. There's good considerations to think about on on on both sides of this but At

03:13:11.358 --> 03:13:17.375
- this point in history and a couple of already mentioned what you know, why do we change? Well, we've

03:13:17.375 --> 03:13:23.570
- we've why some of us may have changed something that we thought differently about last year Well, there

03:13:23.570 --> 03:13:29.647
- are some physical realities that are a little looking a little different now in our future for cities

03:13:29.647 --> 03:13:30.302
- in Indiana

03:13:30.914 --> 03:13:38.073
- And also we hadn't heard I've heard different things tonight The arguments may have always sort of been

03:13:38.073 --> 03:13:45.163
- there but they were laid out really well by people tonight I thought very persuasively and I told both

03:13:45.163 --> 03:13:52.253
- the sponsors this legislation that I was coming into this meeting tonight Totally open to be persuaded

03:13:52.253 --> 03:13:59.550
- by the what I thought were the best arguments to make a decision on this and that's how I did come in and

03:14:01.922 --> 03:14:11.045
- Everyone you there will be costs and we're heading into a future where We need to be thinking about

03:14:11.045 --> 03:14:20.260
- our real basic services and our real our real serious priorities I Raised my two kids here racing up

03:14:20.260 --> 03:14:30.295
- and down we would down Kirkwood all the time The idea that that we're setting that it's like not a pedestrian

03:14:30.295 --> 03:14:31.390
- environment

03:14:31.554 --> 03:14:39.200
- But this would make it one, you know Kirkwood to me It's bikeable and it's walkable and it's drivable

03:14:39.200 --> 03:14:46.846
- and parkable I See a bit a big vision that yeah, this could come but not without as one of my council

03:14:46.846 --> 03:14:54.642
- colleagues a minute ago It might even come from a clarity without a real commitment To make this happen

03:14:54.642 --> 03:15:00.414
- and I just don't think we're in a position to make that commitment long term

03:15:01.762 --> 03:15:13.364
- At least at this point we're not so Unless I Was given clear evidence and I wasn't tonight really to

03:15:13.364 --> 03:15:25.541
- give me the confidence that the upsides of this Would so substantial substantively outweigh the downsides

03:15:25.541 --> 03:15:30.366
- and concerns that it was a slam dunk then

03:15:31.842 --> 03:15:40.104
- It's more right now. It ain't broke Don't fix it. We don't really have a plan We don't it's not to me

03:15:40.104 --> 03:15:48.284
- a good Plan for more investment when we are going into lean times due to state legislation You know,

03:15:48.284 --> 03:15:56.627
- I do I am sensitive to what everybody's comments all those who are in favor or really support this But

03:15:56.627 --> 03:16:01.406
- one of the speakers said You know we have switch yard park

03:16:01.730 --> 03:16:10.827
- We have the beeline We have campus. We have a lot of spaces where we can go and Enjoy a safe car free

03:16:10.827 --> 03:16:20.548
- Environment and Does a trip down to Kirkwood that some speakers said that they wouldn't have taken otherwise

03:16:20.548 --> 03:16:29.645
- if it was not a pedestrian mall Is that just a trip they wouldn't have taken to switch yard or to the

03:16:29.645 --> 03:16:31.518
- beeline or you know?

03:16:32.322 --> 03:16:42.115
- Don't see the net For this being so clearly persuasively Convincing that at this time I can support

03:16:42.115 --> 03:16:52.005
- it. I just I Again really appreciate the work of this council sponsors. I really do and I appreciate

03:16:52.005 --> 03:17:01.406
- all the input that came from both people with both perspectives on both sides of this issue and

03:17:02.178 --> 03:17:12.145
- but I Just I'm not I'm not there right now on this Thank you very much any other council colleagues

03:17:12.145 --> 03:17:22.312
- all right councilmember Rosenberger First I wanted to say there were a couple emails that were really

03:17:22.312 --> 03:17:31.582
- good that we got and it's just points that weren't brought up at all and I kind of wanted to

03:17:33.538 --> 03:17:39.270
- Timer I guess I kind of just wanted to mention one a little bit because I thought it was just really

03:17:39.270 --> 03:17:45.060
- good in a perspective we absolutely haven't heard at all and I'll just do like a sentence or two even

03:17:45.060 --> 03:17:51.076
- though the whole thing is Really relevant this is just someone saying I'm highly in favor of the seasonal

03:17:51.076 --> 03:17:57.035
- closure as a mother of two young boys ages 9 and 6 and one of whom is autistic spending time on Kirkwood

03:17:57.035 --> 03:17:59.646
- when it is closed feels and is much safer and

03:17:59.810 --> 03:18:05.119
- We often walk downtown from our house to go to the library to pick up the kids from Lincoln Street Boys

03:18:05.119 --> 03:18:10.633
- and Girls Club And we are much more inclined to add a side trip to heart souls or pop into farm Bloomington

03:18:10.633 --> 03:18:15.789
- for fries When Kirkwood is closed because of the increased safety and pleasantness of the experience

03:18:15.789 --> 03:18:21.150
- From an inclusion perspective the seasonal closure of Kirkwood makes it more accessible for our autistic

03:18:21.150 --> 03:18:26.459
- child Pedestrian streets are calmer without the traffic noise and pollution of cars which is supportive

03:18:26.459 --> 03:18:27.582
- of keeping him and us

03:18:27.682 --> 03:18:33.774
- Calmer and more at ease autistic children can be impulsive and the increased safety of a pedestrian

03:18:33.774 --> 03:18:40.171
- street brings down our hyper vigilance It also lawyers lowers barriers to our participation in community

03:18:40.171 --> 03:18:46.446
- life Which is important so he can grow up feeling part of the larger community. I think something that

03:18:46.446 --> 03:18:53.086
- got a little missed tonight was that people there are people that already love this and think it is good and

03:18:53.282 --> 03:18:59.517
- Many meetings ago when we were talking about this one Commenter said they go down there and they're

03:18:59.517 --> 03:19:05.876
- gonna go down there the same amount But it's gonna be a lot better if it doesn't have cars on it just

03:19:05.876 --> 03:19:12.235
- the way it is I Think last meeting a council member said it seems to be working pretty good But while

03:19:12.235 --> 03:19:18.595
- Kirkwood has been open to cars in the last couple years. We have lost local establishments We've lost

03:19:18.595 --> 03:19:22.398
- cafe pizzeria. We've lost we're losing Trojan horse. We lost

03:19:22.530 --> 03:19:28.371
- I don't know if it really is a chain Dan's fat Dan sandwich place I don't know if it is a chain right

03:19:28.371 --> 03:19:34.098
- and then the the the restaurants that can afford to come in our chains because Chains can afford to

03:19:34.098 --> 03:19:39.881
- not make as much money is very different. It can be very different franchises are different, too But

03:19:39.881 --> 03:19:45.894
- it can be very different than a small business trying to survive on Kirkwood And I mean Trojan was there

03:19:45.894 --> 03:19:49.502
- since the 70s, right? So like something actually isn't working

03:19:50.242 --> 03:19:58.212
- One of the reasons they cited for moving to Ellisville is outdoor dining They cited other reasons right,

03:19:58.212 --> 03:20:06.105
- but that was one some things we didn't bring up The Bloomington Commission on sustainability and reason

03:20:06.105 --> 03:20:14.302
- and resilience also passed a resolution that you not unanimously Encouraged us to keep a car free Kirkwood.

03:20:14.302 --> 03:20:17.566
- I You know, I don't think it's likely that

03:20:18.082 --> 03:20:26.444
- the administration will let this happen next year if this vote doesn't go through because We already

03:20:26.444 --> 03:20:34.890
- saw one year of it not going through Because it was deemed impractical So I think like the good thing

03:20:34.890 --> 03:20:43.335
- about voting yes on this is that It does put pressure on making it better even though people do think

03:20:43.335 --> 03:20:47.806
- it is good that I mean people do think it is good and

03:20:51.618 --> 03:20:57.761
- Someone mentioned and I was in our the memo from ESD that there's a percent loss in revenue. I Think

03:20:57.761 --> 03:21:04.208
- things have been harder for restaurants for sure that graduation has been moved to dinnertime on Saturday

03:21:04.208 --> 03:21:10.898
- night It was potentially the biggest revenue night of the year and now it's like I go to uptown at graduation

03:21:10.898 --> 03:21:17.223
- because I can walk right up to the bar. It's very different so there's that I know last year also there

03:21:17.223 --> 03:21:19.230
- was one fewer football games and

03:21:19.362 --> 03:21:26.650
- So it's just a we can't just say that in a vacuum that because there were people walking more on Kirkwood

03:21:26.650 --> 03:21:33.800
- we lost revenue I Guess that's it. I want to thank everyone too for just really considering this a lot.

03:21:33.800 --> 03:21:40.813
- We have been talking about it for five years Every year and I'm hoping this year can be different and

03:21:40.813 --> 03:21:47.070
- we can work to make it something more permanent and something that we fund in any capacity

03:21:47.490 --> 03:21:54.484
- Year-after-year it is true that right now it should already be a line item in the budget because it

03:21:54.484 --> 03:22:01.828
- is slated to be closed to cars From April to November, so that should at least already be in the budget.

03:22:01.828 --> 03:22:08.822
- I Guess I do want to say this the Congress for new urbanism they can be kind of flipped on Car free

03:22:08.822 --> 03:22:16.446
- streets, but just spec does talk about and I know we've talked about it tonight You need one of three things

03:22:16.546 --> 03:22:23.465
- resort town college town or density so CNU would also approve this I think thank you Thank you so much

03:22:23.465 --> 03:22:30.317
- comes member daily. All right. Sure. Thank you I just have a couple bullet points notes that I wanted

03:22:30.317 --> 03:22:37.034
- to reply to again, thank you to everybody for this conversation. Hey, I've You know enjoyed working

03:22:37.034 --> 03:22:43.886
- with councilmember Rosenberger. Yes, we have put a lot of work into it and a lot of conversations and

03:22:43.886 --> 03:22:44.894
- we've tried to

03:22:45.058 --> 03:22:51.445
- hear from as many people as we could. We've had great conversations with the administration. I think

03:22:51.445 --> 03:22:57.895
- those have gone well. We've got good feedback from them, great feedback from the community. All of my

03:22:57.895 --> 03:23:04.534
- colleagues up here, we're more than happy to chat with us and give us their feedback. We've tried really

03:23:04.534 --> 03:23:10.921
- hard to incorporate as much of that as we could because we want this to work. We really want to make

03:23:10.921 --> 03:23:14.462
- this something that is palatable to all. We've tried to

03:23:14.626 --> 03:23:20.885
- bring as much feedback as we can to make as many people support it as possible. A couple bullet points.

03:23:20.885 --> 03:23:26.904
- It was brought up that, well, we're doing this while the students are gone. What's the point? We're

03:23:26.904 --> 03:23:32.922
- doing it before the students leave. And then again, it stays closed to vehicles until mid-November.

03:23:32.922 --> 03:23:38.941
- So the students come back in early August. That's still a good chunk of time while the students are

03:23:38.941 --> 03:23:44.478
- here bringing more foot traffic to the downtown businesses and to the closed Kirkwood area.

03:23:45.346 --> 03:23:52.953
- You know, with all due respect, it's not the same to say, well, you can just go to Switchyard or you

03:23:52.953 --> 03:24:00.787
- can go walk around campus. There are no businesses there. That's why I like to go walk around Kirkwood.

03:24:00.787 --> 03:24:08.620
- I like to go get an impulse ice cream cone or an impulse matcha latte. My kids will always talk me into

03:24:08.620 --> 03:24:11.934
- buying them a treat somewhere or something.

03:24:12.130 --> 03:24:19.383
- So it's it's fun to just go downtown without a plan And I I think we'll see more of that more of the

03:24:19.383 --> 03:24:26.709
- impulse purchases, you know, it's I don't go I walk I do go to switch yard and walk around I do go to

03:24:26.709 --> 03:24:33.890
- campus and walk around but That's not a destination like Kirkwood is Some other notes that I had oh

03:24:33.890 --> 03:24:41.790
- Councilmember Rallo mentioned the Convention Center. I think that's gonna bring a lot more pedestrian traffic

03:24:41.890 --> 03:24:47.981
- down there, people are going to get into town and be like, well, hey, let's go explore the town. Where

03:24:47.981 --> 03:24:54.012
- do we go? Oh, we go to Kirkwood. And they'll explore the restaurants, maybe without a plan, and maybe

03:24:54.012 --> 03:25:00.162
- they'll pop into bars or pop into shops. What a great way to attract people to those businesses is when

03:25:00.162 --> 03:25:06.430
- they're in town for the convention. Also, football games, when people are in town for the football games.

03:25:08.322 --> 03:25:15.554
- We also did have support from the Kirkwood Association. We didn't point that out earlier There's been

03:25:15.554 --> 03:25:22.786
- a lot of A lot made out of losing the parking along Kirkwood We're already losing a lot of parking on

03:25:22.786 --> 03:25:30.372
- Kirkwood because of the parklets that's not been pointed out You know, those those are being taken already

03:25:30.372 --> 03:25:35.902
- by the parklets. So saying well, we can just do parklets instead that doesn't

03:25:36.866 --> 03:25:43.621
- Rectify the the parking concerns that have been brought up. So I feel like that kind of balances out

03:25:43.621 --> 03:25:50.444
- that argument People keep pointing to last summer as not being Great. It wasn't I fully agree, right?

03:25:50.444 --> 03:25:57.466
- And that's why we want to do this so that we have that motivation to say hey, you know what? Maybe let's

03:25:57.466 --> 03:26:03.486
- put up a couple awnings this year on the the 300 block in front of the library, right and

03:26:04.066 --> 03:26:11.224
- That did feel desolated and pretty unpleasant. We can start small with a couple awnings or a couple

03:26:11.224 --> 03:26:18.525
- shades up there Yeah, it's not going to be what it was last summer Because there wasn't anything done

03:26:18.525 --> 03:26:25.683
- last summer It was also brought up that this is you know five blocks long it's it's too long to fit

03:26:25.683 --> 03:26:33.342
- into the model, you know that was Cited as being successful. It's just one block longer. There was another

03:26:34.146 --> 03:26:42.700
- pedestrian mall in there that was cited as being successful, that was eight blocks long. So I think

03:26:42.700 --> 03:26:51.426
- that kind of still fits into the model. All right, that's everything that I had. Thanks everybody for

03:26:51.426 --> 03:26:59.981
- listening. Council Member Piedmont-Smith. Yeah, I just wanted to speak again because Council Member

03:26:59.981 --> 03:27:02.718
- Flaherty's comment about we all

03:27:02.818 --> 03:27:14.490
- nine of us supported this last year and why are we not all supporting it this year? So Council Member

03:27:14.490 --> 03:27:26.047
- Ruff already mentioned one reason and that is that reduce our property tax revenues and we have very

03:27:26.047 --> 03:27:29.022
- complex process to try to

03:27:29.314 --> 03:27:37.489
- make up some of that through local income taxes that relies on the county agreeing to a countywide tax.

03:27:37.489 --> 03:27:45.507
- And it's all very much up in the air. So to make long-term financial commitments now as opposed to in

03:27:45.507 --> 03:27:53.446
- February of 2025 is very different. Also, and this has been mentioned by both sides, 2025 experience

03:27:53.446 --> 03:27:58.398
- of a closed Kirkwood was not that great. It was not activated.

03:27:58.530 --> 03:28:08.959
- and there were some security concerns as well. So that's another thing that's different between February

03:28:08.959 --> 03:28:19.188
- of 25 and now. And I want to really, I really do appreciate the work that's been done by the sponsors,

03:28:19.188 --> 03:28:27.134
- but one thing that would have been really helpful and that it didn't, I didn't,

03:28:27.362 --> 03:28:34.598
- really think of it until the conversation this evening and all the public comment, but how much does

03:28:34.598 --> 03:28:41.906
- it cost to activate and administer a pedestrian zone? I think one member of the public did bring some

03:28:41.906 --> 03:28:49.286
- figures about that, but I do think it costs quite a lot of money, not just to do the study, as Council

03:28:49.286 --> 03:28:57.310
- Member Flaherty said, the bulk of the money will be to do the Kirkwood Avenue study, it's not a corridor study,

03:28:58.786 --> 03:29:05.450
- But every year to maintain this zone, and first of all, beyond the study to purchase the infrastructure

03:29:05.450 --> 03:29:12.050
- we need to create the shade and create the atmosphere that we're going for and just to administer that

03:29:12.050 --> 03:29:18.842
- activation every year, it's gonna cost quite a bit. But I'd like to leave you with this quote from Leslie

03:29:18.842 --> 03:29:22.110
- Davis from the Council on Community Accessibility.

03:29:23.362 --> 03:29:30.036
- There's no doubt that closing Kirkwood to vehicular traffic disproportionately and negatively impacts

03:29:30.036 --> 03:29:36.645
- people with disabilities. At a minimum, BT access should be permitted to deliver people to places on

03:29:36.645 --> 03:29:43.646
- Kirkwood that would otherwise not be accessible to vehicles. This is a frequently voiced and substantiated

03:29:43.646 --> 03:29:50.974
- concern, especially of our blind community members. There are too many concerns for me to vote yes on this now.

03:29:51.362 --> 03:29:59.054
- accessibility concerns and others. So anyway, I just want to clarify why my position has shifted. And

03:29:59.054 --> 03:30:06.896
- it's not exactly the same thing we're doing now. We're actually putting it into Title 15, which I think

03:30:06.896 --> 03:30:14.513
- is stronger. But regardless, this is why my position has changed. Thank you. Thank you so much. Will

03:30:14.513 --> 03:30:16.926
- the clerk please call the roll?

03:30:22.498 --> 03:30:44.520
- Councilmember Ralla yes Rough no Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes Stasberg no Piedmont Smith no Zulek no

03:30:44.520 --> 03:30:49.918
- Sorry, yes daily. Yes, I

03:30:54.818 --> 03:31:06.710
- You that passes congratulations. All right, let's move on I Move that resolution 20 26-9 be introduced

03:31:06.710 --> 03:31:18.487
- and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second Motion in a second will Kirk, please call the

03:31:18.487 --> 03:31:21.374
- roll Councilmember rough

03:31:27.906 --> 03:31:41.713
- Rosenberger, yes clarity. Yes Stasberg. Yes, you know Smith. Yes Yes, I'm sorry. Yes daily. Yes Rallo.

03:31:41.713 --> 03:31:54.046
- Yes Thank you I Move that resolution 2026 oh nine. I'm sorry. Well the clerk, please read I

03:31:57.602 --> 03:32:03.905
- Resolution 2026-09 to adopt the Monroe County multi-hazard mitigation plan. The synopsis is as follows.

03:32:03.905 --> 03:32:10.269
- This resolution adopts the Monroe County multi-hazard mitigation plan, which is required by the Disaster

03:32:10.269 --> 03:32:16.512
- Mitigation Act of 2000 before localities may receive federal funds for mitigation projects. Mitigation

03:32:16.512 --> 03:32:22.816
- plans are intended to identify vulnerabilities and prioritize measures to reduce or eliminate long term

03:32:22.816 --> 03:32:27.422
- risk to human life and property from acknowledged hazards to the community.

03:32:28.738 --> 03:32:38.552
- Thank you very much. I move that resolution 20 2609 be adopted second All right. Is there anybody from

03:32:38.552 --> 03:32:48.176
- the city who is here to present on this? has not become one with the chair I Have become unfused Hi,

03:32:48.176 --> 03:32:54.750
- I'm Jamie Neville. I'm from the neuro county emergency management so

03:32:55.170 --> 03:33:02.756
- Trying to keep this as brief as possible, but kind of how we made this plan was is done by a third party

03:33:02.756 --> 03:33:10.343
- vendor. We start with a meeting with different representatives of the governing bodies within the county

03:33:10.343 --> 03:33:17.568
- and we get a feel for the hazards. Now these hazards are not picked by us. They are picked by FEMA.

03:33:17.568 --> 03:33:21.758
- This is very much a FEMA driven plan in case you have not

03:33:21.986 --> 03:33:29.923
- caught the flavor of this plan already. They picked those plans. They are natural disasters with the

03:33:29.923 --> 03:33:37.782
- exception of the hazmat and the dam or levee failure which they categorize as a human hazard but it

03:33:37.782 --> 03:33:45.719
- parallels on the environmental side so it's easy to sneak those in. But there's a ranking system and

03:33:45.719 --> 03:33:48.862
- every jurisdiction ranks those hazards.

03:33:48.994 --> 03:33:55.739
- based on historical data and Just experience and that gets the CPRI and that is how we get that ranking

03:33:55.739 --> 03:34:02.290
- system and At the very end I'm so sorry and then at the very end the second meeting that takes place

03:34:02.290 --> 03:34:08.970
- is mitigation strategies and so at the very end of the document there's a lot of mitigation strategies

03:34:08.970 --> 03:34:12.926
- that have been identified by the different jurisdictions and

03:34:14.050 --> 03:34:21.424
- I will also acknowledge that there are some errors that exist within the plan. There's a table of errors

03:34:21.424 --> 03:34:28.587
- that we have been building, and thank you to Council Member Strasburg and Isabelle Piedmont-Smith for

03:34:28.587 --> 03:34:35.680
- helping me with the add to that list so that we can get those resolved through the vendor. Thank you

03:34:35.680 --> 03:34:38.910
- so much. Questions? Council Member Strasburg.

03:34:40.034 --> 03:34:46.558
- Yeah, I just want to make sure to say that I I have more I just need to email them to you and I didn't

03:34:46.558 --> 03:34:53.019
- get time to do that today so I'm glad that you can kind of like make these edits and I guess I'm kind

03:34:53.019 --> 03:34:59.606
- of in terms of like a Monroe County taxpayer a little concerned about some of these errors because they

03:34:59.606 --> 03:35:04.990
- were probably made by the consultant that then we paid and then they did things like

03:35:06.242 --> 03:35:13.400
- pounds in that are not actually in our county and those sorts of errors to me just seem like Like it

03:35:13.400 --> 03:35:20.558
- just kind of feels like oh great So you like copy and paste it half of this from some other plan and

03:35:20.558 --> 03:35:27.645
- you know How much are we paying you for this? And so yeah, that's I guess more of a comment but the

03:35:27.645 --> 03:35:31.614
- question that I have kind of related is on that list of

03:35:32.322 --> 03:35:43.129
- Committee members the only Bloomington City folks there were related to the fire department So how did

03:35:43.129 --> 03:35:54.041
- you like reach out to get committee members? so the meeting invite goes out and It goes out and if they

03:35:54.041 --> 03:35:58.238
- come they come I Can't make them attend

03:35:58.626 --> 03:36:06.713
- Also put on the invite if there's somebody missing, please feel free to share the more the merrier We

03:36:06.713 --> 03:36:14.800
- did also have people who live in the city of Bloomington as well representing the city of Bloomington

03:36:14.800 --> 03:36:22.967
- also Okay, I guess I would just I Guess in the future I feel like we need to make sure like after that

03:36:22.967 --> 03:36:27.486
- first meeting to like identify where there might be gaps

03:36:27.586 --> 03:36:33.754
- Because I of course can only see gaps in in Bloomington City related stuff. I don't know if there are

03:36:33.754 --> 03:36:40.224
- gaps and in Ellitsville or Steinsville or in the unincorporated parts or in certain departments as opposed

03:36:40.224 --> 03:36:46.332
- to other departments and Yeah, so I I would because this has to happen every like five years is five

03:36:46.332 --> 03:36:52.318
- years. Yes So I agree with you on both. I had a lot of frustration working with the vendor and I I

03:36:52.610 --> 03:37:00.124
- will probably not work with that vendor again. Not to be rude, but it's just probably a one and done.

03:37:00.124 --> 03:37:07.490
- And then on the representation side, we were starting these meetings in 2023. And if you think back

03:37:07.490 --> 03:37:15.593
- to 2023, in the spring of 2023 was when we had a federally declared disaster with the tornado in Steinsville.

03:37:15.593 --> 03:37:21.854
- So there were, in the words of Taylor Swift, there was a lot going on at the moment.

03:37:25.282 --> 03:37:33.934
- Thank you very much. It's always good luck to quote Taylor Swift I can't think of the quote but Anyway

03:37:33.934 --> 03:37:42.334
- Considerations are we entirely beholden to? Operating with just the FEMA administered plan in other

03:37:42.334 --> 03:37:50.818
- words Could we develop a different plan? One that would be complementary. So for instance, there are

03:37:50.818 --> 03:37:55.102
- things there are events that aren't addressed here

03:37:56.194 --> 03:38:03.931
- Or you could envision something that would be Affect many communities that would overwhelm FEMA So we

03:38:03.931 --> 03:38:11.669
- would like to be self-reliant and things like food Say there's a pan another pandemic or an EMP event

03:38:11.669 --> 03:38:19.634
- natural or man-made something like that It disrupts a lot supply chain disruption. Should we not prepare

03:38:19.634 --> 03:38:23.806
- for something like that? And how would we go about it?

03:38:24.130 --> 03:38:31.193
- So we do and we have other plans. So this is not an all-inclusive. This is our only plan We have many

03:38:31.193 --> 03:38:38.186
- plans that cover the county This is just for hazard mitigation and this is very specific to the asks

03:38:38.186 --> 03:38:45.110
- that FEMA puts upon us to qualify for that federal funding Okay, so we have other hazard plans that

03:38:45.110 --> 03:38:47.326
- include such things as pandemic

03:38:47.650 --> 03:38:55.159
- Preparedness and that sort of thing. Yes, they live sometimes they live under different islands of sorts

03:38:55.159 --> 03:39:02.310
- So a pandemic plan would live under the Health Department Okay, but everybody comes together. Those

03:39:02.310 --> 03:39:09.675
- planes are not developed in a silo Okay, I'm very interested in this and so I'll be in touch with you.

03:39:09.675 --> 03:39:16.254
- Thank you very much for all your hard work on this plan and thank you for incorporating the

03:39:17.090 --> 03:39:27.091
- revisions that I suggested or the errors that I caught. I wanted to harken back to May of 2025 when

03:39:27.091 --> 03:39:37.393
- there were tornadoes in southern Monroe County on the outskirts of Bloomington. Dan Combs, who was the

03:39:37.393 --> 03:39:46.494
- Perry Township Trustee at the time, and his staff wrote up a report on how they dealt with

03:39:47.010 --> 03:39:53.989
- trying to help individuals affected by that tornado. They called their report canary in a coal mine.

03:39:53.989 --> 03:40:01.314
- And I wonder if that has made it to your desk, Ms. Nabel, and to the committee. I know that it's probably

03:40:01.314 --> 03:40:08.224
- not within the scope of this particular plan, but I wanted to take the opportunity to raise that as

03:40:08.224 --> 03:40:13.406
- a report that's really worth taking a close look at. It has, I've read it.

03:40:13.538 --> 03:40:20.550
- We've read it. Both of us have read it within my office. I have a deputy as well. So would that maybe

03:40:20.550 --> 03:40:24.606
- come into play as far as preparedness plans in the future?

03:40:25.858 --> 03:40:32.353
- Yes, so we reviewed each of his points and kind of counteracted he mentioned several times that there

03:40:32.353 --> 03:40:38.721
- was not a plan when there in fact was a plan so The plans that we have are not widely shared within

03:40:38.721 --> 03:40:45.534
- the county because they are proprietary and they do have strategic pieces within them that I mean we don't

03:40:45.666 --> 03:40:51.398
- want those things to be shared far and wide because if somebody were to do nefarious things within the

03:40:51.398 --> 03:40:57.129
- county, they would obviously want to know exactly what our plan says so that they could do the biggest

03:40:57.129 --> 03:41:02.694
- harm and get the most bang for their buck and we obviously don't want that to happen. So we do kind

03:41:02.694 --> 03:41:08.314
- of keep those plans close to the vest, but always willing to have discussions with anybody who would

03:41:08.314 --> 03:41:14.046
- like to come and have discussions. I just never got the chance to have any discussions with Mr. Combs.

03:41:15.202 --> 03:41:23.277
- unfortunately Okay, thank you Thanks so much any other questions All right, seeing none. We'll then

03:41:23.277 --> 03:41:31.998
- I'll go to a time of public comment Is there anyone who'd like to make a public comment on this resolution?

03:41:31.998 --> 03:41:38.942
- All right, anybody online fantastic we'll come back to council council any comments I

03:41:40.514 --> 03:41:50.878
- Thank you, I'll just say I would for any colleagues who have not gone to tour the emergency management

03:41:50.878 --> 03:42:00.941
- center I have had the luxury and opportunity to go talk to All of the employees there led by I'm so

03:42:00.941 --> 03:42:08.286
- sorry. Please remind me of your last name Jamie Nibel. Yes. Thank you so

03:42:08.610 --> 03:42:17.597
- Yeah, if you'd like to learn more it's a great tour and ask lots of questions. Thanks Thank you so much

03:42:17.597 --> 03:42:26.325
- other comments councilman Rostos Burke. Yeah, I guess I also want to make a little comment because a

03:42:26.325 --> 03:42:35.140
- piece of the approval of this tonight is so that our Sustainable and development ESD it can apply for

03:42:35.140 --> 03:42:37.214
- some federal grants and

03:42:37.602 --> 03:42:44.125
- Related to sustainability stuff. And so that is one of the reasons why it's coming before us I think

03:42:44.125 --> 03:42:50.777
- that it is typical maybe that we as a council adopt this Mitigation plan and we just didn't do it last

03:42:50.777 --> 03:42:57.235
- year. It just kind of got overlooked when it first started But that is something that our staff are

03:42:57.235 --> 03:43:02.014
- working on that was discussed at the project 46 meeting last week so that

03:43:02.178 --> 03:43:11.862
- This this actually is an important to do so they can apply for those funds that I believe that application

03:43:11.862 --> 03:43:20.913
- will happen over the summer Thanks. Thank you so much Any others? All right. Well the click, please

03:43:20.913 --> 03:43:30.235
- call the roll Councilmember Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes Stasburg. Yes Piedmont Smith Yes Zulek. Yes.

03:43:30.235 --> 03:43:31.774
- Sorry. Yes daily

03:43:31.906 --> 03:43:41.340
- Yes, Rallo. Yes rough. Yes Thank you Fantastic. All right I've asked them. Well, you go ahead. Yes I'd

03:43:41.340 --> 03:43:50.498
- like to make a motion to move ordinance 20 26-13 to next on the agenda So that we can get our staff

03:43:50.498 --> 03:43:58.558
- out of here sooner so they don't have to sit here all night second Motion in the second

03:43:59.426 --> 03:44:12.394
- Motion was to move the thing on the agenda. So will the clerk please call the roll on this amendment

03:44:12.394 --> 03:44:26.133
- to the agenda? Thank you. Yeah, just a moment. I gotta get it. So Yes councilmember Flaherty, yes Stasberg

03:44:26.133 --> 03:44:29.086
- yes Piedmont Smith Yes

03:44:29.634 --> 03:44:42.619
- Yes, I'm sorry. Yes Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes rough. Yes Rosenberger Okay, I Moved that ordinance 2026-13

03:44:42.619 --> 03:44:55.604
- be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second Will the clerk was called a roll

03:44:55.604 --> 03:44:59.134
- Councilmember Stasberg, yes

03:45:00.578 --> 03:45:10.869
- Piedmont Smith Yes Zulek. Yes. Sorry. Yes Daly. Yes, Rallo. Yes, Ruff. Yes Rosenberger and Flaherty.

03:45:10.869 --> 03:45:15.454
- Yes. Thank you. Well, of course, please read

03:45:26.082 --> 03:45:33.480
- Ordnance 2026 dash 13 to amend title 2 of the Bloomington municipal code regarding loans between utilities

03:45:33.480 --> 03:45:40.463
- the synopsis is as follows this ordinance follows Indiana code section 8 dash 1.5 dash 3 dash 11 and

03:45:40.463 --> 03:45:47.377
- allows for the wastewater and water Utilities to issue loans to one another through the creation of

03:45:47.377 --> 03:45:54.014
- a cash reserve fund in each utility through which such loans can be funded Fantastic, thank you

03:45:54.146 --> 03:45:59.718
- Move that ordinance twenty twenty six dash thirteen be adopted second. Hooray Have you built the thing

03:45:59.718 --> 03:46:05.237
- that you've been crocheting although we gave you plenty of time We've already heard this presentation

03:46:05.237 --> 03:46:10.160
- Are there is there anything you wanted to add to that or any questions for directors agar,

03:46:10.160 --> 03:46:16.003
- please councilmember Stossberg This isn't a question for directors agar, but I would like to move amendment

03:46:16.003 --> 03:46:21.629
- one for ordinance twenty twenty six thirteen Thank you very much. We have amendment one second. There's

03:46:21.629 --> 03:46:23.198
- a second fantastic. Go ahead

03:46:23.650 --> 03:46:29.154
- So that so that's my amendment if you remember last week I brought up that the actual language that

03:46:29.154 --> 03:46:34.769
- was going to be going into code was very Confusing and I asked for a rewrite of that and so I want to

03:46:34.769 --> 03:46:40.768
- thank the attorneys and everybody involved I think that the new language actually Explains what is happening

03:46:40.768 --> 03:46:46.878
- a little bit better in terms of creating it basically it just separated it into a couple of sentences so we're

03:46:46.946 --> 03:46:52.985
- Creating it says a cash reserve fund is hereby created for each city-owned utility Each of the city's

03:46:52.985 --> 03:46:59.321
- utilities is authorized to transfer surplus earnings each month hereafter to their respective cash reserve

03:46:59.321 --> 03:47:05.361
- fund Created in this section and pursuant to Indiana code and the cash reserve fund of one city-owned

03:47:05.361 --> 03:47:09.150
- utility May be used to make loans to another city-owned utility

03:47:09.634 --> 03:47:15.472
- Blah blah blah know the rest of that change. So I I appreciate that there was the willingness to to

03:47:15.472 --> 03:47:21.718
- clarify that language I think it makes a whole lot more sense now Fantastic any comments on the amendment?

03:47:21.718 --> 03:47:27.848
- Great would anybody like to make public comment on this amendment? Fantastic we'll come back to council.

03:47:27.848 --> 03:47:33.919
- I'm sorry. Is there anybody online would like to make comments in this amendment? Fantastic. We'll come

03:47:33.919 --> 03:47:39.582
- back to council any final comments on this amendment Great clerk. Will you please call the roll?

03:47:41.474 --> 03:47:57.899
- Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes Yes, sorry, yes Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes, Ruff. Yes, Rosberg Yes Stossburg,

03:47:57.899 --> 03:48:09.566
- yes. Thank you All right. I'm now as amended. Are there any comments? Oh, I

03:48:09.698 --> 03:48:18.972
- Any comes from council, I'm sorry any questions further from council? Fantastic would anybody like to

03:48:18.972 --> 03:48:28.427
- make public comment on this? Ordinance as amended Anybody online tremendous Looking once twice comments

03:48:28.427 --> 03:48:38.974
- on council Fantastic. Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember Zulek, yes I'm sorry. Yes daily. Yes Rallo

03:48:39.426 --> 03:48:52.437
- Stasberg yes Piedmont Smith Yes Wow, we're cooking with gas now, let's go that passes I move that resolution

03:48:52.437 --> 03:49:04.971
- 20 26-11 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second This motion in the second

03:49:04.971 --> 03:49:07.358
- there is discussion

03:49:07.554 --> 03:49:13.382
- Yeah, I just want to say because I've been trying to be consistent about this because the Jack Hopkins

03:49:13.382 --> 03:49:19.154
- stuff didn't Get released in the packet until this week and I know that I've made a point about that.

03:49:19.154 --> 03:49:24.925
- However, I am gonna vote yes on this Introduction for two reasons one of which it is kind of an inner

03:49:24.925 --> 03:49:30.867
- council thing So like our council staff knew that it was coming and so it wasn't sprung on them in terms

03:49:30.867 --> 03:49:36.582
- of unexpected And secondly, this has to be done tonight. It's our last meeting and Jack Hopkins must

03:49:36.582 --> 03:49:37.374
- be dealt with

03:49:37.762 --> 03:49:48.517
- That is very true. Thank you very much. All right, there's a motion in the second with a quick, please

03:49:48.517 --> 03:49:59.271
- call the roll Councilmember, sorry. Yes Daily, yes, Rallo. Yes Ruff Rosenberger clarity. Yes Stasburg.

03:49:59.271 --> 03:50:07.102
- Yes, Piedmont Smith Yes, all right, thank you and Zulek. Yes, sorry, sorry

03:50:07.202 --> 03:50:23.661
- Excuse me Resolution 2026-11 authorizing the allocation of the Jack Hopkins Social Services Fund program

03:50:23.661 --> 03:50:30.558
- funds for the year 2026 and related matters

03:50:30.722 --> 03:50:37.129
- The synopsis is as follows. This resolution brings forward the recommendations of the 2026 Jack Hopkins

03:50:37.129 --> 03:50:43.535
- Social Services Committee. The principal task of the committee is to recommend funding for local social

03:50:43.535 --> 03:50:49.695
- services agency proposals that best meet program criteria and best meet the needs of the community.

03:50:49.695 --> 03:50:53.022
- This resolution allocates a total of 499,995 dollars.

03:50:53.186 --> 03:51:00.979
- $4.63 to 35 different agency programs the resolution also approves the funding agreements with these

03:51:00.979 --> 03:51:09.389
- agencies and authorizes the council president to execute such agreements Accepts the report of the committee

03:51:09.389 --> 03:51:17.336
- and authorizes the chair of the committee to resolve any questions regarding the interpretation of the

03:51:17.336 --> 03:51:22.814
- agreements I Move that resolution 20 26-11 be adopted second All right

03:51:25.186 --> 03:51:31.578
- Thank you very much. We'll go really quick through this. We don't need to linger long this year for

03:51:31.578 --> 03:51:37.969
- the Jack Hopkins social service grant There were nine of us committee members It was a got off to a

03:51:37.969 --> 03:51:44.553
- bit of a rocky start at the beginning when we lost our some of our staff So that was a little worrying

03:51:44.553 --> 03:51:51.072
- They left us in good shape. We tried a new Application process this year. It was more streamlined and

03:51:51.072 --> 03:51:52.990
- shorter and so much easier to

03:51:53.122 --> 03:51:59.585
- for us as grant reviewers to get right to the heart of the information that we needed. I hope that the

03:51:59.585 --> 03:52:05.922
- applicants found it a little more streamlined and easier, too. So huge shout out to Kari for getting

03:52:05.922 --> 03:52:12.447
- us set up with that. That was a bit of an adjustment, but we got going with that. I want to give a huge

03:52:12.447 --> 03:52:18.847
- thank you to our fellows and our interns, who really helped get us through the summer. So Aria, Evan,

03:52:18.847 --> 03:52:20.478
- and Michael really helped

03:52:20.706 --> 03:52:28.549
- Keep us organized and communicating We couldn't have done it without their help and then of course when

03:52:28.549 --> 03:52:36.166
- counsel attorney interim counsel attorney Alan came on he also Gave a huge, you know push toward the

03:52:36.166 --> 03:52:43.934
- finish line. So It ended up actually working out really well in the end We had a five hundred thousand

03:52:43.934 --> 03:52:44.990
- dollar budget

03:52:45.506 --> 03:52:53.733
- I'd like to say that we came in under budget this year for the first time and in the past couple years

03:52:53.733 --> 03:53:01.961
- We we have five dollars and thirty six cents left over And we funded Nobody cheered for that. Come on.

03:53:01.961 --> 03:53:09.150
- Thank you We funded 35 agencies. I think we you know worked really hard to make sure that

03:53:09.826 --> 03:53:16.169
- We were meeting our criteria and our priorities. It was a really smooth process between the nine of

03:53:16.169 --> 03:53:22.576
- us I think that my fellow committee members who are here tonight Would agree that we were all pretty

03:53:22.576 --> 03:53:29.300
- much on the same page for most of the process We all were came to the table with the same recommendations

03:53:29.300 --> 03:53:36.150
- ultimately And then finally, I'd also just like to give a huge. Thank you to our community member committee

03:53:36.150 --> 03:53:38.878
- members Does that make sense? So Eddie Ryu

03:53:39.202 --> 03:53:46.618
- Cameron Greer and Catherine and T MOA they were phenomenal to work with and Yeah, any questions, I'm

03:53:46.618 --> 03:53:54.180
- happy to take them, but I like to I'm proud to put this recommendation forward Thank you and thank you

03:53:54.180 --> 03:54:01.743
- all so much for the work that you put into this Were any agencies denied funding? Yes, I believe there

03:54:01.743 --> 03:54:04.606
- were two agencies that we did not fund

03:54:05.858 --> 03:54:13.834
- Could you speak on why or did they not meet the qualifications or we did not think that their their

03:54:13.834 --> 03:54:21.969
- request met our standards for the urgency of the Needs that we were looking to fill understood. Thank

03:54:21.969 --> 03:54:29.944
- you other questions Council member Stasberg Thank you. I have just a note for the community to make

03:54:29.944 --> 03:54:33.214
- sure that if you like me downloaded this

03:54:33.922 --> 03:54:41.370
- Addendum a couple of days ago. I did find a couple of things that needed to be changed in that resolution

03:54:41.370 --> 03:54:48.817
- That in one of the whereas clauses We needed to add in resolution 20 2601 as a reference to the committee

03:54:48.817 --> 03:54:52.190
- organization and then there was a missing print

03:54:52.322 --> 03:54:58.972
- And so the resolution Introduced tonight had those things corrected and it's corrected in the packet

03:54:58.972 --> 03:55:05.688
- online right now But the original but so I just want to make sure that people Are aware of what we're

03:55:05.688 --> 03:55:12.338
- voting on So it is that that version that has those things two things corrected and then my question

03:55:12.338 --> 03:55:13.918
- for councilmember daily

03:55:14.050 --> 03:55:21.475
- has to do with operational expenses. I did see in your scope of funding that operational expenses were

03:55:21.475 --> 03:55:29.333
- considered this year. Is that new? Because I thought that operational expenses were generally not considered

03:55:29.333 --> 03:55:36.542
- for Jack Hopkins. I do not believe that was a new part of the consideration. Can anybody else speak

03:55:36.542 --> 03:55:42.526
- to that? Am I just remembering that incorrectly in terms of original Jack Hopkins?

03:55:43.010 --> 03:55:52.170
- My recollection is that we is that we we ask to not prioritize people who are that we want we prioritize

03:55:52.170 --> 03:56:01.068
- investments and things that are sort of one-time lasting investments, but it doesn't doesn't preclude

03:56:01.068 --> 03:56:06.302
- us from Giving operational funds and for many years we have

03:56:06.466 --> 03:56:13.214
- Funded operationally like for example at the with IRA is a good example who almost every year asked

03:56:13.214 --> 03:56:20.165
- for operational funds But they have also made a strong argument that they've been able to then sustain

03:56:20.165 --> 03:56:26.980
- Those things that we invest in and then they're able to increase their capacities, etc, etc so it is

03:56:26.980 --> 03:56:32.446
- it has been a consideration for as long as I've been on the Okay, I guess I just

03:56:33.442 --> 03:56:40.227
- Doesn't necessarily concern me. I do feel like it's kind of a Deviation though because I wouldn't classify

03:56:40.227 --> 03:56:44.222
- what you just said councilmember. Sorry as an operational fund

03:56:44.354 --> 03:56:49.820
- Expense because those things as I remember them from the year that I was on Jack Hopkins a couple years

03:56:49.820 --> 03:56:55.077
- ago It was for like a new staff member or a new program So it was like that entrepreneurial kind of

03:56:55.077 --> 03:57:00.385
- expansion of services as opposed to continuation of the same services So this year those things that

03:57:00.385 --> 03:57:05.642
- were categorized as operational expenses were just like maintaining status quo as opposed to trying

03:57:05.642 --> 03:57:07.166
- to start new programming and

03:57:13.794 --> 03:57:21.064
- I don't remember any that comes to mind Like you don't remember if it was new parent because I like

03:57:21.064 --> 03:57:28.406
- tandem Tandem said that it was essential program costs and then Hendrix County Child Advocacy Center

03:57:28.406 --> 03:57:35.894
- Susie's place was operational expenses including salaries Yeah, those are two that that popped to mind

03:57:35.894 --> 03:57:37.566
- very specifically with

03:57:38.082 --> 03:57:44.793
- You know facing huge funding losses because of what's going on federally and what's going on statewide

03:57:44.793 --> 03:57:51.309
- And so we did see that as somewhat emergency funding. Okay, okay Operational programming as opposed

03:57:51.309 --> 03:57:57.955
- to like new programs. Okay. Yes So do you think that ongoing like you would advocate for that or does

03:57:57.955 --> 03:57:59.454
- that just depend on? I

03:57:59.554 --> 03:58:05.022
- The state of the world, you know when we had our deep this fun. So sorry Yeah, just in terms of Jack

03:58:05.022 --> 03:58:10.435
- Hopkins Yeah, like the original purpose because I think some of the original purpose statements was

03:58:10.435 --> 03:58:15.903
- about trying to get new things going and not just maintain Yeah, when we had our debrief was it just

03:58:15.903 --> 03:58:21.316
- a week ago a week ago feels like forever ago when we had our debrief We did kind of talk about that

03:58:21.316 --> 03:58:25.918
- actually, you know, one of our concerns was, you know, maybe we see some of the same

03:58:26.210 --> 03:58:33.494
- Organizations come back with like, you know almost like the same ask every year and is this Is how are

03:58:33.494 --> 03:58:40.849
- we going to encourage new applicants new asks One of the things that we've considered doing is actually

03:58:40.849 --> 03:58:48.487
- starting to meet earlier not waiting until February to do an organizational meeting maybe start in November

03:58:48.487 --> 03:58:53.438
- and start kind of setting our process and our policies that early and

03:58:53.634 --> 03:59:00.583
- Kind of getting a stronger foundation that much earlier so that too we can also then convey it to the

03:59:00.583 --> 03:59:07.463
- public What we're going to be looking for when we do start accepting applications in the late winter

03:59:07.463 --> 03:59:14.480
- early spring Okay, thanks Any other questions All right. We'll now go to public comment. Would anybody

03:59:14.480 --> 03:59:19.998
- like to comment on this resolution for authorizing the Jack Hopkins allocations?

03:59:23.874 --> 03:59:31.620
- to mention something because I have been on the Jack Hopkins and on This year was looking at it from

03:59:31.620 --> 03:59:39.289
- a more of a startup perspective for a nonprofit For those that are all volunteer run you may not be

03:59:39.289 --> 03:59:47.035
- getting the applications because the time frame from when the announcement goes in out and then when

03:59:47.035 --> 03:59:53.630
- the Application needs to be submitted was too short. So I would suggest making that a

03:59:54.242 --> 04:00:05.881
- longer. Thank you. Thank you so much. Anyone online? Yes, please. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes, we can.

04:00:05.881 --> 04:00:17.520
- Thank you. This was Carol Canfield. Excuse me. And I'm a lifelong member of the community. I've come

04:00:17.520 --> 04:00:22.590
- every year for, I don't know, 20 plus years

04:00:23.522 --> 04:00:30.757
- speaking against giving money to Planned Parenthood. Here's my reason why this year. We continue to

04:00:30.757 --> 04:00:38.427
- give significant money to an organization, Planned Parenthood, that lies to clients, calling human beings

04:00:38.427 --> 04:00:45.951
- a clump of cells, and also lies to men and women, making them think that there are more than two sexes.

04:00:45.951 --> 04:00:50.654
- There are not. God created man and woman, man and woman, period.

04:00:51.330 --> 04:00:59.516
- You cannot be born one thing and become another. When are we going to stop lying about this and supporting

04:00:59.516 --> 04:01:07.244
- an entity that lies to its clients and to the public? Truth matters. And truth is not something that

04:01:07.244 --> 04:01:14.206
- can be changed. Truth is eternal. Please don't give them any more of our money. Thank you.

04:01:18.274 --> 04:01:26.308
- Thank you very much. Is there anybody else in council chambers? Anyone else online? One more person

04:01:26.308 --> 04:01:34.584
- online, take it away. Hi, I'm Joan Middendorf. I am a fifth generation Hoosier. When I went to college

04:01:34.584 --> 04:01:42.939
- in the Midwest, I got my birth control from Planned Parenthood. I've got two daughters, and a few years

04:01:42.939 --> 04:01:47.358
- ago when I stopped buying them presents for Christmas,

04:01:47.746 --> 04:01:54.907
- told them I would donate money to places. It was interesting that both my daughters told me to take

04:01:54.907 --> 04:02:02.069
- their Christmas money and donate it to Planned Parenthood because it had helped them. And I'm gonna

04:02:02.069 --> 04:02:09.445
- tell my granddaughter about Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is an organization that helps women

04:02:09.445 --> 04:02:16.606
- with their sexual health. So important for so many women. Thank you very much. Have a good evening.

04:02:16.866 --> 04:02:26.506
- Thank you. You too. All right. We'll come back to council comments any comments on Jack Hopkins funds

04:02:26.506 --> 04:02:35.958
- Please councilman Rallo Yes, I I Thought the process was very good and I really I want to say thank

04:02:35.958 --> 04:02:45.598
- you to chair Daley for terrific work that was done on on it I I do want to just make the comment that

04:02:46.242 --> 04:02:53.383
- And I appreciate the administration bringing the budget of Jack Hopkins up to five hundred thousand

04:02:53.383 --> 04:03:00.738
- dollars several years ago But because of inflation, we're already it's already being eroded, of course

04:03:00.738 --> 04:03:08.022
- and the needs continue to increase This is something I think we really need to prioritize is at least

04:03:08.022 --> 04:03:15.806
- keeping pace with inflation over time So I would just make that request the administration and my colleagues

04:03:16.034 --> 04:03:24.190
- Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm counselor Stasberg I just want to say that 30 years ago when I was

04:03:24.190 --> 04:03:32.504
- 18 19 years old and And did not have health insurance Planned Parenthood was the only place that I could

04:03:32.504 --> 04:03:40.818
- go for basic basic care basic doctor appointments everything from things specific to my body as a female

04:03:40.818 --> 04:03:42.718
- to more general kind of

04:03:42.818 --> 04:03:49.583
- Questions and concerns and that was the only thing that I could afford. So I'm very pleased to support

04:03:49.583 --> 04:03:56.282
- them through through Jack Hopkins. Thank you Thank you very much councilmember Thank you, I will just

04:03:56.282 --> 04:04:03.047
- say it is a privilege and an honor for me to support Planned Parenthood And I will continue to support

04:04:03.047 --> 04:04:10.141
- the LGBTQ plus community as well. Happy pride month and Especially happy pride month to our trans siblings.

04:04:10.141 --> 04:04:12.702
- Thank you All right any other comments

04:04:13.634 --> 04:04:28.396
- All right. Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember daily. Yes Rollo. Yes rough. Yes Rosenberger.

04:04:28.396 --> 04:04:43.294
- Yes Flaherty. Yes Stasberg. Yes Piedmont Smith Yes Zulek. Yes, and sorry. Yes All right. Thank you very much

04:04:43.682 --> 04:04:51.748
- Next motion I move that resolution 20 26-12 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis

04:04:51.748 --> 04:05:00.051
- only second motion in a second. Is there any discussion? Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, I just wanted

04:05:00.051 --> 04:05:08.274
- to say that I'm going to vote no on this motion not just because of the late hour but because I believe

04:05:08.274 --> 04:05:10.014
- the the deadlines for

04:05:10.178 --> 04:05:16.158
- to receive the materials for this item were not met and I Don't think that we should make Exceptions

04:05:16.158 --> 04:05:22.079
- to our deadlines unless there's some urgent need and I don't think there's any urgent need for this

04:05:22.079 --> 04:05:28.060
- resolution. Thank you All right. Thank you. Any other comments councilmember Stasburg I just want to

04:05:28.060 --> 04:05:34.159
- say I'm also voting no for the same reason and I did speak with staff this week and they confirmed for

04:05:34.159 --> 04:05:39.902
- me that there's no urgency and handling this piece of business before we go on summer recess and

04:05:40.226 --> 04:05:47.888
- I am going to vote yes tonight because I think there are some community members who have waited four

04:05:47.888 --> 04:05:55.550
- hours to say their piece and I'll just add that Just I mean for whatever it's worth. This is not was

04:05:55.550 --> 04:05:59.646
- not a surprise and when it came to council we've been

04:05:59.746 --> 04:06:08.001
- Working on this openly talked about it in scheduling meeting. We received the first sort of draft of

04:06:08.001 --> 04:06:16.420
- this on April 23rd second draft on April 28th, so Don't think that violates the rules, but also shared

04:06:16.420 --> 04:06:24.675
- councilmembers who like Sam comments here Alright, so will the clerk we call the roll? Councilmember

04:06:24.675 --> 04:06:27.454
- Rallo, yes breath yes Rosenberger

04:06:28.738 --> 04:06:40.409
- Flaherty yes Stasburg no Piedmont Smith no Zulik yes, sorry. Yes daily. Yes All right, that would be

04:06:40.409 --> 04:06:46.302
- super. Oh, sorry. Will the clerk please read? Yeah

04:06:46.498 --> 04:06:52.893
- Resolution 2026-12 establishing rules and guidelines for alcohol permit districts the synopsis is as

04:06:52.893 --> 04:06:59.289
- follows resolution 2026-12 establishes rules procedures and public interest guidelines for alcoholic

04:06:59.289 --> 04:07:05.748
- beverage permits for which the city of Bloomington has authority discretion or influence to recommend

04:07:05.748 --> 04:07:12.460
- support condition object to monitor or otherwise participate in the alcoholic beverage permitting process

04:07:12.460 --> 04:07:13.726
- Thank you very much

04:07:14.210 --> 04:07:23.114
- I move that resolution 20 26-12 be adopted second. All right, I'll be super quick and then we can as

04:07:23.114 --> 04:07:32.370
- a point of order the gavel needs to pass to Yeah, just super quick Worked on this with ESD and and other

04:07:32.370 --> 04:07:34.750
- other council members just

04:07:34.850 --> 04:07:43.342
- Generally there there are a lot of different dispositions within Indiana code that allow for additional

04:07:43.342 --> 04:07:51.589
- alcohol permits whether those be riverfront districts Downtown historic districts and then there's a

04:07:51.589 --> 04:07:59.999
- recent State bill sponsored by our senator Yoder to allow Bloomington and I think another municipality

04:07:59.999 --> 04:08:04.816
- to have a couple of additional liquor licenses because the

04:08:04.816 --> 04:08:11.370
- metaphor of cart before the horse has been used today. We wanted to sort of separate two questions.

04:08:11.370 --> 04:08:17.990
- There's the question of whether or not these be established and whether or not they be acted on. And

04:08:17.990 --> 04:08:24.609
- then there's the second question of sort of, okay, and if we were, how would we go about doing that?

04:08:24.609 --> 04:08:31.163
- And so certainly not an urgent thing. So if the conversation gets too long, very happy to push this

04:08:31.163 --> 04:08:34.768
- off. But the idea here is just to shape the guidelines

04:08:34.768 --> 04:08:41.711
- upon which should the city have any say any influence and Roughly the process by which we will set these

04:08:41.711 --> 04:08:47.992
- guidelines both now and moving forward. So You I mean, it's it's fairly thorough fairly fairly

04:08:47.992 --> 04:08:54.868
- straightforward but the main sort of takeaway is this is that I think a lot of the concerns that people

04:08:54.868 --> 04:09:01.480
- would have should we in the future establish a riverfront district or or act on the downtown Liquor

04:09:01.480 --> 04:09:04.720
- licenses, I think concern number one is is would

04:09:04.720 --> 04:09:11.994
- would be the proliferation of bars as sort of one concern. And so we stipulate here that we'd like to

04:09:11.994 --> 04:09:19.269
- use these type of things, should we use them, for economic development. And so really thinking about,

04:09:19.269 --> 04:09:26.828
- you know, some of the things we were just talking about, you know, if we want more density of restaurants

04:09:26.828 --> 04:09:34.174
- along Kirkwood as one example, that we want local business owners to be represented so that, you know,

04:09:34.274 --> 04:09:41.717
- ideally avoid lots of change popping up to get what really are quite lucrative and very highly valued

04:09:41.717 --> 04:09:49.378
- liquor licenses. So we just wanted basically to set up the governance for what it might look like should

04:09:49.378 --> 04:09:56.675
- we act on any of these. So fairly straightforward and mostly also sets up a process by which we can

04:09:56.675 --> 04:10:04.190
- continue to evaluate this on a two-year basis. So I will answer any questions. You're in charge, mate.

04:10:07.042 --> 04:10:17.034
- Councilmember Stossberg So I have a lot of a lot of concerns I suppose with this and I guess the biggest

04:10:17.034 --> 04:10:27.120
- one has to do with with the discretion allowed in the evaluation criteria and How it could be interpreted

04:10:27.120 --> 04:10:36.446
- and then exactly like how this process is gonna go I feel like I could have really used memo from

04:10:37.218 --> 04:10:45.066
- about state law around this that Our counsel attorney did not have time to get because he got a final

04:10:45.066 --> 04:10:52.222
- copy of this on Friday and I So in terms of those concerns so evaluation of criteria support

04:10:52.222 --> 04:10:59.070
- for underrepresented entrepreneurs, how do you define underrepresented entrepreneurs and

04:10:59.810 --> 04:11:06.933
- And similarly, you can determine things based on restaurant quality. How do you determine restaurant

04:11:06.933 --> 04:11:14.268
- quality? Food service orientation. How do you determine food service orientation? I'm vegetarian. Maybe

04:11:14.268 --> 04:11:21.462
- I'm going to say only vegetarian restaurants get to be approved. And I guess I would just like you to

04:11:21.462 --> 04:11:29.150
- speak to those concerns about the amount of discretion that can be allowed within this document and how it's

04:11:29.250 --> 04:11:34.142
- phrased right now. I mean, I think as it's phrased, it's giving some

04:11:34.210 --> 04:11:39.783
- General guidelines for the types of things that can be considered It does not say because at the end

04:11:39.783 --> 04:11:45.411
- of the day, we don't give liquor licenses We we get to make recommendations about them And so this is

04:11:45.411 --> 04:11:51.149
- simply saying this simply saying that you know We might want to consider things of this nature and that

04:11:51.149 --> 04:11:57.163
- and again what's a little bit I think some one that one of the things that makes us a little bit complicated

04:11:57.163 --> 04:12:01.246
- is that there's three different types and each of them requires different

04:12:01.410 --> 04:12:08.284
- Sort of gives different space for council to act and so I mean the the answer to your question is that

04:12:08.284 --> 04:12:15.157
- it's it should be Interpretable and this isn't saying these are the five ways that we will give liquor

04:12:15.157 --> 04:12:21.964
- licenses Just saying that these are the type of things that I think would be valid things to consider

04:12:21.964 --> 04:12:28.704
- So it's general general guide it's not Biden binding, but what is the council role in actually doing

04:12:28.704 --> 04:12:29.438
- this then?

04:12:32.738 --> 04:12:40.284
- What's the council's role in in doing this whole process? So The the council can make recommendations

04:12:40.284 --> 04:12:48.125
- with which within each of these Dispensations so we can we can make recommendations We also can establish

04:12:48.125 --> 04:12:55.819
- a process by which ESD for example can set up written agreements And we approve those agreements should

04:12:55.819 --> 04:12:58.334
- they be should they be reached? I

04:13:01.250 --> 04:13:07.760
- So as a follow-up like if say there's the historic district I think is one of those designations, right?

04:13:07.760 --> 04:13:14.023
- So if the historic does a district is designated how many liquor lights it says does that come with?

04:13:14.023 --> 04:13:20.471
- how many How many times are we gonna have to go through this approval process? You said every two years

04:13:20.471 --> 04:13:26.672
- I've heard that every that they have to apply for these every year and like then we have to go like

04:13:26.672 --> 04:13:30.206
- what kind of time is that gonna take us as a council and

04:13:30.402 --> 04:13:37.751
- And and what does this resolution have to do with that because resolutions? I mean doesn't really have

04:13:37.751 --> 04:13:45.242
- teeth like it like what is this actually? Doing and then what what is this tying us into as a commitment

04:13:45.242 --> 04:13:52.734
- later? To the to the first question the timeline that I mentioned with two years is for us to review our

04:13:52.834 --> 04:13:59.099
- and guidelines around how we would like to what we'd like to prioritize in these so just gives a it

04:13:59.099 --> 04:14:05.551
- just gives a Guideline for us to bring this back up. We could bring it up whenever we want to In terms

04:14:05.551 --> 04:14:11.879
- of how many there are it's a different by district. I think it's 15 It's 15 for a downtown district.

04:14:11.879 --> 04:14:18.206
- I think it's also 15 for a riverfront district. Is that right? It's 15 for the historic district and

04:14:18.434 --> 04:14:25.569
- Riverfront and and so no we don't I don't envision that we would be you know, constantly approving these

04:14:25.569 --> 04:14:32.364
- it's not I mean a setting up a process by which we're setting a lot of different things that can be

04:14:32.364 --> 04:14:39.363
- considered and then I mean Ideally allowing ESD to actually run that process But they would then bring

04:14:39.363 --> 04:14:45.886
- by resolution to us those recommendations that would go to the ATC now the ATC could totally be

04:14:46.210 --> 04:14:53.266
- I mean just say we don't really care what you think and just give them to whoever they want Because

04:14:53.266 --> 04:15:00.322
- again, we don't we don't give out these liquor licenses But state code gives the sort of provisions

04:15:00.322 --> 04:15:07.590
- that we're allowed to make recommendations for how they're given out Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes,

04:15:07.590 --> 04:15:09.918
- I have a few questions as well I

04:15:10.786 --> 04:15:16.683
- So compliance with living wage ordinance, it says the compliance shall be demonstrated by an annual

04:15:16.683 --> 04:15:22.580
- affidavit submitted to the city. But compliance with living wage ordinance is actually done via the

04:15:22.580 --> 04:15:28.831
- LWO certification form that's on the city's website. So I'm wondering if you're envisioning a new process

04:15:28.831 --> 04:15:34.787
- for that just for this purpose or why it wasn't the same process that we use currently. Great point.

04:15:34.787 --> 04:15:40.094
- I mean, that's I think if that's the way we want to do it, that's what we should include.

04:15:43.234 --> 04:15:52.501
- Okay, but that's not what the language in the ordinance. We should change it then. Guidelines. Okay.

04:15:52.501 --> 04:16:02.501
- I have some other questions. For the staff review, it doesn't, now that you've talked about it, I understand

04:16:02.501 --> 04:16:12.318
- it's the economic sustainable development staff, but that's not stated here. So it just says staff review.

04:16:13.282 --> 04:16:23.140
- So it seems like it should be assigned to at least a certain department Yeah, thanks for that observation

04:16:23.140 --> 04:16:32.904
- Councilmember Rosenberger I Think 15 maybe a lot would fall into concepts that fill an identified market

04:16:32.904 --> 04:16:40.158
- need that I I'm guessing kind of like a grocery store obey or bodega might be

04:16:40.866 --> 04:16:49.566
- that any market, whether it be Trader Joe's, because we have so many places without a walkable grocery,

04:16:49.566 --> 04:16:58.099
- or neighborhood bodegas don't exist yet kind of thing. Okay, nodding yes. And then a little bit about

04:16:58.099 --> 04:17:07.134
- the... Not necessarily a preference for restaurants, but maybe I don't see a preference for more bar onlys.

04:17:07.906 --> 04:17:15.241
- And was that talked about because I kind of think like right now we have the problem where it's really

04:17:15.241 --> 04:17:22.504
- hard for a restaurant To make it without a liquor license but then I think too there are areas in our

04:17:22.504 --> 04:17:29.768
- city that people would benefit with a neighborhood bar that they could walk to instead of like having

04:17:29.768 --> 04:17:37.886
- to Drive or transfer, you know to a bar, I guess Yeah, and I agree I mean I think that you know, I think that the

04:17:38.754 --> 04:17:46.500
- Sort of two things. I think the prevalent concern that I'm trying to address is the fact that if we

04:17:46.500 --> 04:17:54.246
- were to establish one of these districts, that what they will result in is just a lot of bars. This

04:17:54.246 --> 04:18:02.146
- is not to say that we couldn't give one to a bar. I think it's just to say that I'm at least maybe in

04:18:02.146 --> 04:18:07.646
- a provocation and a way of starting a conversation saying that perhaps

04:18:07.842 --> 04:18:13.473
- in terms of economic development, it might be more beneficial for us to be thinking, at least prioritizing

04:18:13.473 --> 04:18:18.999
- restaurants. But I think your point is super valid. And that's why the language is really flexible here,

04:18:18.999 --> 04:18:24.315
- is that saying it's like, yeah, I mean, we may, from time to time, think about this differently. And

04:18:24.315 --> 04:18:29.630
- we might focus for a time on Kirkwood. We might think differently about Kirkwood than we might about

04:18:30.018 --> 04:18:37.049
- some creek somewhere. And I think that that's really the goal here, is figuring out a way to, in a very

04:18:37.049 --> 04:18:43.877
- agile way, just have a framework where we can continue to address exactly that. And I think we could

04:18:43.877 --> 04:18:50.773
- come back to this in, let's say, in a year if we were to establish these districts and say, actually,

04:18:50.773 --> 04:18:53.950
- we want to change that because we want more of

04:18:54.178 --> 04:19:00.625
- X thing, and that could be for a season, a two-year season, a five-year season, who knows, right? And

04:19:00.625 --> 04:19:06.945
- so that's sort of the goal here is to establish that flexibility. I have a clarifying question that

04:19:06.945 --> 04:19:13.455
- I believe is for Council Attorney Allen but might be for Council President Asare. These, the 15 liquor

04:19:13.455 --> 04:19:19.838
- licenses that we're proposing are directly tied to the historic district, is that correct? No. Okay.

04:19:21.890 --> 04:19:27.629
- Potentially apply to Bloomington. So there's a historic district that technically we could has been

04:19:27.629 --> 04:19:31.646
- discussions over the years that we could apply for that's 15 licenses

04:19:31.746 --> 04:19:37.860
- If you created a riverfront district, that's actually unlimited in the number of licenses Some cities

04:19:37.860 --> 04:19:43.914
- have limited that number and then there is the downtown district, which is the special section under

04:19:43.914 --> 04:19:50.388
- section 16.8 of Indiana code which creates two licenses specifically for Bloomington as special legislation

04:19:50.388 --> 04:19:56.502
- So those are the three most common likely applicable ones and then just in terms of our role maybe if

04:19:56.502 --> 04:20:00.158
- you'll allow me a point of indulgence to clarify is that the

04:20:00.450 --> 04:20:08.578
- Formal written commitment that's allowed under Indiana code that does become a condition of Receiving

04:20:08.578 --> 04:20:17.025
- one of the liquor licenses and it applies to all three districts Thank you any more first-round questions

04:20:17.025 --> 04:20:25.233
- Okay, we can move on to second round councilmember Stasberg I just have a couple of clarification Kind

04:20:25.233 --> 04:20:30.174
- of questions first of all around the written commitment piece

04:20:30.274 --> 04:20:36.479
- Councilmember sorry one of the things that you said was that you know, we could only recommend to the

04:20:36.479 --> 04:20:42.563
- ATF Should give it to you, but the ATF would approve it But if we require a written commitment Then

04:20:42.563 --> 04:20:48.708
- what would happen if the ATF approves somebody that couldn't fulfill the requirements of our written

04:20:48.708 --> 04:20:49.438
- commitment?

04:20:51.778 --> 04:20:57.228
- I would just say the way the statute is worded. It says it becomes a condition of approval So at that

04:20:57.228 --> 04:21:02.624
- point I do think the ATC would have to abide by the formal written commitment now that is not to say

04:21:02.624 --> 04:21:08.235
- that you couldn't put and I think that my understanding and Councilmember sorry can obviously or council

04:21:08.235 --> 04:21:13.631
- president. Sorry can can add more detail to this My understanding is that this framework is a little

04:21:13.631 --> 04:21:18.814
- bit broader than that. So it not only covers formal written commitments, but it would also cover

04:21:18.946 --> 04:21:24.923
- General requirements to receive our recommendation as well Regarding if there is no formal written commitment

04:21:24.923 --> 04:21:30.465
- and the City Council just would decides to weigh in with a recommendation The local ATC board and the

04:21:30.465 --> 04:21:36.061
- state ATC board are not obligated to follow the City Council's recommendation Wait say that again They

04:21:36.061 --> 04:21:41.658
- just wouldn't be obligated to follow if we don't have a written commitment if you don't have a written

04:21:41.658 --> 04:21:47.363
- commitment But then they don't existence of the written commitment which has to be approved by ordinance

04:21:47.363 --> 04:21:48.830
- is a condition of approval

04:21:49.026 --> 04:21:56.058
- But but like so I'm thinking about all of the discretionary pieces in here again So could all of those

04:21:56.058 --> 04:22:03.157
- discretionary pieces end up in a written commitment So so it's fairly broad the statute is fairly broad

04:22:03.157 --> 04:22:07.390
- in the written commitment statute specifically it talks about

04:22:07.650 --> 04:22:13.288
- Specifically acknowledging the nature of the business the type and nature of the business itself So

04:22:13.288 --> 04:22:18.418
- there are there's a lot of flexibility within that in terms of what would go into a formal

04:22:18.418 --> 04:22:24.282
- written commitment. I think likely you could Incorporate a lot of these into formal written commitments

04:22:24.282 --> 04:22:29.976
- if that's the way you wanted to go Okay, I have another follow-up to but I'll wait for a third round

04:22:29.976 --> 04:22:32.062
- I guess Councilmember Piedmont Smith

04:22:36.898 --> 04:22:45.394
- So I want to follow up on this idea of written commitments. So how would this legally work that we would

04:22:45.394 --> 04:22:53.729
- say they would fill out an application that we receive here at the City Council and then based on that

04:22:53.729 --> 04:23:02.387
- we would recommend them or not and they, sorry, I did read this but I don't recall this process of written

04:23:02.387 --> 04:23:04.734
- commitments being described.

04:23:06.722 --> 04:23:13.517
- I don't know that it's described in this particular ... I think it's alluded to with two different phrases.

04:23:13.517 --> 04:23:20.186
- There's a less formal written agreement, I think, in this particular resolution, and then there's mention

04:23:20.186 --> 04:23:26.604
- of, quote-unquote, a formal written commitment. That language, formal written commitment, is found in

04:23:26.604 --> 04:23:29.246
- Indiana Code. It's Indiana Code 7.131917.

04:23:29.474 --> 04:23:36.071
- And in that state code that's where it says as a condition of eligibility for a permit The applicant

04:23:36.071 --> 04:23:42.864
- must enter into a formal written commitment with the municipal legislative body Regarding the character

04:23:42.864 --> 04:23:49.592
- or type of business that will be conducted on the permit premises. And so that's the specific language

04:23:49.592 --> 04:23:56.124
- there And that that written commitment by Indiana code by that's that statute has to be approved by

04:23:56.124 --> 04:23:57.822
- ordinance specifically So

04:23:59.426 --> 04:24:07.243
- As Council Member Stosberg said, any of these criteria where they say they're gonna be a restaurant

04:24:07.243 --> 04:24:15.373
- and be family friendly and they have good workplace practices and they've paid living wage and all that

04:24:15.373 --> 04:24:23.190
- stuff, we could put that in writing that they have to make a formal commitment to? Yes, I think you

04:24:23.190 --> 04:24:27.646
- could, under the statute. Okay. Can I ask a question of,

04:24:27.938 --> 04:24:35.452
- Go ahead council attorney Allen. Could you also comment? Do we need to pass a do we by ordinance pass

04:24:35.452 --> 04:24:42.966
- each written commitment or do you establish the written commitment? And then and then move from there

04:24:42.966 --> 04:24:50.700
- The way this specific statute is written I is it actually says the municipal legislative body must adopt

04:24:50.700 --> 04:24:52.542
- an ordinance approving a

04:24:52.802 --> 04:24:58.584
- The formal written commitment so I you could read that one of two ways just frankly and I don't mean

04:24:58.584 --> 04:25:04.079
- to create extra complexity in a complex issue I think one, you know, we would look at how other

04:25:04.079 --> 04:25:10.033
- municipalities are implementing this But I think one way you could look at that is that there is a form

04:25:10.033 --> 04:25:16.043
- written commitment that the city applies broadly uniformly to every application or the other way I think

04:25:16.043 --> 04:25:20.222
- you could read it is that each individual written commitment needs to be

04:25:20.322 --> 04:25:30.077
- Approved by ordinance the most conservative approach would obviously be to approve each individual written

04:25:30.077 --> 04:25:39.559
- commitment by ordinance Other questions Councilmember Stossberg So this one is another what-if question

04:25:39.559 --> 04:25:45.758
- following along with councilmember Rosenberger's like comment about

04:25:46.050 --> 04:25:52.598
- in that conversation about prioritizing restaurant-oriented use over alcohol consumption-focused use.

04:25:52.598 --> 04:25:59.596
- And so, Councilmember Asari, you said, you know, not that we wouldn't give one to a bar, we would prioritize

04:25:59.596 --> 04:26:06.016
- a restaurant. And these do have to be, like, they have to reapply every year, right? Is that right?

04:26:06.016 --> 04:26:12.565
- And so, the what if is, well, what if a new restaurant opens and you would maybe prefer to give it to

04:26:12.565 --> 04:26:15.518
- a restaurant, you only have a limited number,

04:26:15.682 --> 04:26:26.026
- But there's already an existing bar, and there's 15 of them. So do you then take one away from the bar,

04:26:26.026 --> 04:26:35.971
- and then that completely shuts them down? What kind of security does that give any? I guess I just,

04:26:35.971 --> 04:26:45.022
- this feels sort of, it's that discretion thing again, and how that works legally, I guess.

04:26:45.218 --> 04:26:51.522
- Because we have all this discretion to do whatever we want and doesn't that like Lend some insecurity

04:26:51.522 --> 04:26:57.765
- into the entire thing to have so much discretion in this She made it a legal question. So to you and

04:26:57.765 --> 04:27:04.192
- then Just in terms of how it operates legally. Yes once you have now Riverfront district is the asterix

04:27:04.192 --> 04:27:10.435
- here because the permits are unlimited if you do create and Riverfront district within that district

04:27:10.435 --> 04:27:13.278
- any qualifying business could be eligible for

04:27:13.410 --> 04:27:20.168
- Permit the other ones are limited. So once those are gone, they are used up just like our normal Allocation

04:27:20.168 --> 04:27:26.425
- of alcohol permits which exist outside of this particular process And then there is a fairly robust

04:27:26.425 --> 04:27:32.683
- just frankly secondary market for those alcohol permits to be bought and sold there are limitations

04:27:32.683 --> 04:27:39.503
- however on the other districts in terms of how you can buy and sell those permits for instance the specialty

04:27:39.503 --> 04:27:43.070
- ones for Bloomington can only be transferred to the same

04:27:43.298 --> 04:27:52.214
- On the same location to a successor and interest essentially So it's not on the free market like the

04:27:52.214 --> 04:28:01.571
- general alcohol permits are where we see those being sold for $300,000 a piece or so Okay Other questions

04:28:01.571 --> 04:28:10.046
- Okay, let's go to public comment. I have another one to you actually I have another question if

04:28:10.242 --> 04:28:17.246
- If I can so one of the things in your memo councilmember, sorry, I'm sorry. I just called for public

04:28:17.246 --> 04:28:24.390
- comment Can we just go to well, we will do more questions after If anyone would like to speak on this,

04:28:24.390 --> 04:28:31.602
- please approach the podium. You'll have three minutes. Please sign in and state your name Hi Steve Olin

04:28:31.602 --> 04:28:36.734
- I came here for other reasons, but this is one of my favorite subjects so

04:28:37.154 --> 04:28:45.559
- I want to speak in favor of this resolution and endorse it heartily. It's been something that The council

04:28:45.559 --> 04:28:53.648
- was going to need to do eventually But I want to have to to maybe illustrate the task at hand. I want

04:28:53.648 --> 04:29:01.736
- to Call the statute. It's I see seven point one dash three dash twenty dash sixteen subsection G That

04:29:01.736 --> 04:29:02.846
- was the first

04:29:03.298 --> 04:29:10.435
- State law the one that mr. Allen was talking about. This is the historic courthouse square district

04:29:10.435 --> 04:29:17.573
- When it was first brought to our attention in 2009 it was offering 10 permits for Facilities within

04:29:17.573 --> 04:29:25.067
- 500 feet of the district then it was 700 feet now. It's 1500 feet and 15 permits. So clearly the program

04:29:25.067 --> 04:29:31.134
- which was written for Valparaiso but Evansville and Bloomington it turns out quality

04:29:31.234 --> 04:29:37.365
- Qualify for it there the administration going through it The specific thing that I think would interest

04:29:37.365 --> 04:29:43.378
- council members is the line the legislative body Of the municipality in which the district is located

04:29:43.378 --> 04:29:49.331
- shall recommend to the Commission sites that are eligible to be permit premises The Commission shall

04:29:49.331 --> 04:29:55.226
- consider but it's not required to follow the municipal legislators body's recommendation and result

04:29:55.226 --> 04:30:00.414
- in issuing a permit under the subsection but the de facto standard is they almost never

04:30:00.738 --> 04:30:07.958
- turn late they never counter manned the opinion of the locality what this does is it introduces an extra

04:30:07.958 --> 04:30:15.040
- layer of administration what you have the power to do is you have to declare the building eligible for

04:30:15.040 --> 04:30:21.434
- the permit if the Possessor the permit screws up and you want to remove it You simply remove

04:30:21.434 --> 04:30:26.110
- their eligibility for the site and then they can't renew the permit

04:30:26.210 --> 04:30:34.170
- the next year so it adds a level of local control that is typically not available to Localities who

04:30:34.170 --> 04:30:42.369
- may be objecting to a permit and it allows you to direct the permit. I mean councilmember Sandberg and

04:30:42.369 --> 04:30:50.489
- I Believed even as far back as 2010 or so that the way to use those permits would be at least when it

04:30:50.489 --> 04:30:52.638
- was in the downtown was to

04:30:53.122 --> 04:30:59.635
- award the permits to nonprofit organization who wanted to to take possession of a building they could

04:30:59.635 --> 04:31:06.404
- then contract with a restaurant third-party restaurateur but the point being that the value of the permit

04:31:06.404 --> 04:31:09.214
- would accrue to say fixing the building and

04:31:09.314 --> 04:31:14.955
- We wanted it for something like the Waldron, but the Waldron found a permit through a different part

04:31:14.955 --> 04:31:20.764
- of state law So they didn't need these permits But that's an example of how the council could use these

04:31:20.764 --> 04:31:26.405
- permits and I certainly want to encourage you at some Sooner rather than later to write an ordinance

04:31:26.405 --> 04:31:32.046
- that lays out a process that people could follow So please approve this resolution. Thank you. Thank

04:31:32.046 --> 04:31:38.078
- you very much next person in chambers Please sign in state your name or alias and you'll have three minutes

04:31:41.026 --> 04:31:46.914
- Let's see if I can still spell my name. I am a tired mom of two young kids, so I empathize with y'all.

04:31:46.914 --> 04:31:52.745
- I'm writing in support, actually, I'm here in support tonight, of Resolution 26-12 as a co-founder of

04:31:52.745 --> 04:31:58.632
- Heartwork Brewing, a small, locally-owned, family-friendly brewery here in Bloomington. The recent and

04:31:58.632 --> 04:32:04.635
- upcoming closures and relocations of well-known Bloomington establishments reflects the growing barriers

04:32:04.635 --> 04:32:07.550
- independent restaurants and small businesses face.

04:32:07.810 --> 04:32:13.445
- These liquor license costs have become so prohibitive, sometimes at a quarter million dollars or more,

04:32:13.445 --> 04:32:18.970
- that only outside developers and larger conglomerates can realistically absorb them. This resolution

04:32:18.970 --> 04:32:22.526
- presents an opportunity for the city to level the playing field.

04:32:22.690 --> 04:32:27.602
- What a three-way permit would allow our brewery to do is expand our offerings in direct response to

04:32:27.602 --> 04:32:32.562
- what our customers are already asking for. Local ciders, wines, and canned cocktails often requested

04:32:32.562 --> 04:32:37.621
- by guests with gluten allergies or those who simply want options beyond beer. We would love to support

04:32:37.621 --> 04:32:40.126
- fellow local producers by carrying their products.

04:32:40.738 --> 04:32:46.654
- Heartwork is also situated within walking distance of high-density residential areas the stadium and

04:32:46.654 --> 04:32:52.571
- local hotels Expanding our permit to include wine and other alcohol more creates a genuine incentive

04:32:52.571 --> 04:32:58.605
- for neighbors and visitors to walk to our business rather than drive to a bar downtown a public safety

04:32:58.605 --> 04:33:01.182
- benefit the city should want to encourage a

04:33:01.666 --> 04:33:07.511
- I would ask that the council consider amending section seven, part three, which requires 60% of revenue

04:33:07.511 --> 04:33:13.301
- to come from food. I understand the intent, but I'd request that the threshold be waived automatically

04:33:13.301 --> 04:33:19.033
- for licensed local producers, breweries, distilleries, wineries, cideries, who already hold brewer or

04:33:19.033 --> 04:33:22.462
- producer permits in addition to the requested retail permit.

04:33:22.562 --> 04:33:28.517
- Our primary product by nature commands higher per unit prices meaning food revenue will rarely reach

04:33:28.517 --> 04:33:34.531
- 60% even with a fully operating kitchen We're not trying to circumvent the spirit of the requirement,

04:33:34.531 --> 04:33:40.898
- but we can't really meet the math of it So I would suggest alternative framework potentially other criteria

04:33:40.898 --> 04:33:46.912
- as requiring being family-friendly or other defined kitchen infrastructure standards Just to make the

04:33:46.912 --> 04:33:51.806
- resolution more workable specifically for local craft producers like us. Thank you

04:33:52.706 --> 04:34:01.977
- Thank you. Could you give your name, please? That's how tired I am. Aubrey Williams. No problem.

04:34:01.977 --> 04:34:07.902
- Thank you. Call me if you need me. I love your dress, Aubrey.

04:34:22.082 --> 04:34:28.971
- All right, thank you. My name is Galen Cassidy. I'm one of the co-owners of Uptown Cafe. I'm here to

04:34:28.971 --> 04:34:35.928
- strongly support the resolution 2026-12 and the framework it creates for the city recommended alcohol

04:34:35.928 --> 04:34:42.953
- permits. Bloomington does face a clear mismatch between alcohol permit supply and our economic demand.

04:34:42.953 --> 04:34:49.774
- Our population-based quota system that the state uses does not match what we do here. It's based on

04:34:49.774 --> 04:34:51.070
- the census counts.

04:34:51.426 --> 04:34:57.681
- And due to our influx of students, faculty, visitors, and events, we have a far greater demand than

04:34:57.681 --> 04:35:03.937
- raw population numbers suggest. And as a result, the median price of a transferred three-way liquor

04:35:03.937 --> 04:35:10.505
- license has been voiced here tonight reaches or exceeds a quarter million dollars, which is dramatically

04:35:10.505 --> 04:35:16.885
- higher than any other parts of the state. I think as a reference last time I checked, Indianapolis is

04:35:16.885 --> 04:35:17.886
- around $50,000.

04:35:18.882 --> 04:35:25.458
- As a council the ATC requires that you approve These licenses to be utilized with or without a written

04:35:25.458 --> 04:35:31.842
- commitment I'll get into that a little bit later, but the city of Valparaiso has operated with this

04:35:31.842 --> 04:35:38.418
- as Mr. Volin has suggested for over 20 years. They've successfully operated with this and I think that

04:35:38.418 --> 04:35:44.802
- several things in the the language has been crafted from those Ordinances that have already existed

04:35:44.802 --> 04:35:46.590
- for many years in the state

04:35:47.426 --> 04:35:52.735
- We talk a lot about affordable housing in the city, but not enough about affordable entrepreneurship.

04:35:52.735 --> 04:35:58.096
- This resolution treats these permits as a public economic development tool rather than a private asset

04:35:58.096 --> 04:36:03.769
- by setting clear priorities for restaurant-oriented uses, local ownership, transparency, and accountability.

04:36:03.769 --> 04:36:08.766
- Through written agreements, it helps prevent speculation will make the permits more accessible.

04:36:09.442 --> 04:36:15.113
- I urge you to adopt this resolution. Expanding affordable pathways for the permits will give more young

04:36:15.113 --> 04:36:20.620
- entrepreneurs and independent operators a realistic chance to launch and grow their businesses here.

04:36:20.620 --> 04:36:26.128
- That's exactly the vitality we need through Bloomington. If you haven't heard already, you will hear

04:36:26.128 --> 04:36:31.799
- the argument against these, and I'll share with you what those will be. You'll hear from current permit

04:36:31.799 --> 04:36:37.252
- holders, which we are one of them, that this will devalue their own liquor license, which they will

04:36:37.252 --> 04:36:38.942
- say is their number one asset.

04:36:39.362 --> 04:36:46.078
- As a current permit holder, I'll tell you that's true, but to me, I'm sorry. If your highest asset is

04:36:46.078 --> 04:36:52.663
- a liquor license, it's not the unique service you provide, I think you're in business for the wrong

04:36:52.663 --> 04:36:59.247
- reasons. To me, this community needs to provide a lower barrier to entry for young entrepreneurs to

04:36:59.247 --> 04:37:06.029
- start their businesses, and we as current permit holders should not be afraid of new businesses coming

04:37:06.029 --> 04:37:08.926
- and going. I think, you know, 50 years ago,

04:37:09.218 --> 04:37:15.011
- My father started the Uptown Cafe. I think Blooming Foods was started. Runtsville Spoon, as well. Things

04:37:15.011 --> 04:37:21.080
- come and go, but we need to give them the chance to get going, and I think this provides a great opportunity.

04:37:21.080 --> 04:37:26.598
- So thank you for the time and the late night. Thank you. Is there anyone else in chambers who would

04:37:26.598 --> 04:37:32.446
- like to speak? Is there anybody on Zoom? Great. You'll be asked to unmute, and you'll have three minutes.

04:37:32.446 --> 04:37:35.646
- Please state your name for the record. Hey, good evening.

04:37:35.906 --> 04:37:41.479
- This is Christopher M.G. from the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce, now at home, watching the

04:37:41.479 --> 04:37:46.998
- NBA Finals. I want to say the Chamber supports the direction of this resolution and appreciates the

04:37:46.998 --> 04:37:53.068
- proactive approach the sponsors have taken. We've had some wonderful public comment. Mr. Cassidy, especially,

04:37:53.068 --> 04:37:58.255
- was right on point. Since we have the horse and the cart already have made their appearances,

04:37:58.255 --> 04:38:03.166
- I'll say this, the setting the expectations now give the city a chance to be thoughtful.

04:38:03.458 --> 04:38:10.382
- before a specific applicant is driving the discussion. These guidelines matter as a tool to help build

04:38:10.382 --> 04:38:17.240
- a stronger commercial district. This may be the river district, the square, another place in the city

04:38:17.240 --> 04:38:24.433
- with the goal of more activity and reasons for people to spend their time in those areas. Our main concern

04:38:24.433 --> 04:38:31.357
- is just with some of the criteria. The guidelines themselves matter and the 60% food may be, you know,

04:38:31.357 --> 04:38:32.702
- prevent a back door

04:38:33.218 --> 04:38:38.760
- bar, but it also may narrow the tool too much. A broader non-alcoholic revenue standard may be closer

04:38:38.760 --> 04:38:44.303
- to the public purpose. It may require the business to be more than alcohol sales, but leaves room for

04:38:44.303 --> 04:38:50.171
- music, venues, wine bars, or concepts that have value to the district. We also ask the compliance standards

04:38:50.171 --> 04:38:56.040
- to be easy for ESD staff to verify and realistic for industry operations. The living wage is well intended,

04:38:56.040 --> 04:38:58.974
- but sector includes a lot of part-time tips, seasonal

04:38:59.394 --> 04:39:04.842
- event-based work, the standard might be too difficult to apply. So the same is true for the hours. Good

04:39:04.842 --> 04:39:10.237
- operators can be held to clear standards on noise safety, outdoor seating, responsible service without

04:39:10.237 --> 04:39:15.581
- forcing every business into the same model. As we move forward, we want the resources to sponsors and

04:39:15.581 --> 04:39:21.081
- the ESD staff. We want to support this initiative. We just want to make sure the guidelines leave enough

04:39:21.081 --> 04:39:26.686
- room for the kind of district building businesses. Bloomington says it once and I thank you for your time.

04:39:27.682 --> 04:39:34.614
- Thank you very much. Is there anybody else on zoom? any stragglers in chambers Okay, then that concludes

04:39:34.614 --> 04:39:41.546
- our public comment period now We are moving back to final questions and comments councilmember Stossberg

04:39:41.546 --> 04:39:48.478
- I guess I would want to skip any other final questions I have and and just kind of Raise making a motion

04:39:48.478 --> 04:39:55.344
- to postpone this and that might mean that we have to postpone indefinitely because we're right in front

04:39:55.344 --> 04:39:56.862
- of recess I think that

04:39:58.242 --> 04:40:05.641
- I would need to be reminded of whether we can postpone something over recess You can't we can just state

04:40:05.641 --> 04:40:07.614
- July 20. Okay, great. Um, I

04:40:08.354 --> 04:40:14.279
- Think that there are some section some some things that need amended I know that I'm really concerned

04:40:14.279 --> 04:40:20.262
- about some of the discretionary language without the definition. I really appreciate Miss Williams the

04:40:20.262 --> 04:40:26.362
- co-founder of Heart Worker and she emailed as well Thank you for coming to comment and reminded me about

04:40:26.362 --> 04:40:32.171
- that section 7 and I think that we talked about that last year with stadium district stuff in terms

04:40:32.171 --> 04:40:36.702
- of like how to figure out that balance of Basically revenues and and how that

04:40:36.802 --> 04:40:43.825
- That works in different ways. I also appreciate mr MG and mentioning the living wage thing and tips

04:40:43.825 --> 04:40:51.129
- because that was also something that like like I'm not sure how a living wage works with tips and Yeah,

04:40:51.129 --> 04:40:58.573
- and then councilmember Pete Mott Smith also mentioned a couple of things that Her careful reading thought

04:40:58.573 --> 04:41:04.894
- might need amendments. So I guess to that end I'll move that we postpone resolution 20 26

04:41:05.026 --> 04:41:14.263
- Until our next meeting on July 22nd Okay, there's a motion on the floor. Is there a second? July 22nd,

04:41:14.263 --> 04:41:23.411
- so that's our next meeting after a break. Yes Yeah, I was gonna say I'm happy to second that too, but

04:41:23.411 --> 04:41:28.702
- I do have a discussion Yeah, I'm happy to take it back one

04:41:29.122 --> 04:41:35.582
- Consideration is because I do think it would be nice to clarify some of this language. I think that's all fine

04:41:35.906 --> 04:41:41.628
- I'll just say though sort of the way that we were thinking about this is that the resolution sort of

04:41:41.628 --> 04:41:47.463
- is saying in broad terms and intent We still need to buy ordinance create the the the actual agreement

04:41:47.463 --> 04:41:53.242
- And so this this is sort of saying and this is you know generated this type of conversation It allows

04:41:53.242 --> 04:41:59.134
- us to say hey, these are some of the things we want to adjust and fix for the you know for the specific

04:41:59.234 --> 04:42:04.314
- What do you call it for the specific agreement? So so I'm happy to take this back and just bring it

04:42:04.314 --> 04:42:09.444
- back as a resolution regardless we're gonna have to bring it as an ordinance anyway, so you know the

04:42:09.444 --> 04:42:14.625
- other approach would be Pass it as is we get a lot of the comments and then we we go back with a with

04:42:14.625 --> 04:42:17.470
- a more official ordinance to establish the agreement so

04:42:20.674 --> 04:42:25.969
- I guess I would prefer not to do that just because I know some type of staff like they look at these

04:42:25.969 --> 04:42:31.265
- resolutions and then especially some of the things that councilmember Piedmont Smith pointed out and

04:42:31.265 --> 04:42:36.665
- the 60% which are really fixed in the resolution and so then for staff to go against that I think that

04:42:36.665 --> 04:42:42.170
- enters some awkwardness. Yeah, especially since as a legislative body I actually want the administration

04:42:42.170 --> 04:42:47.465
- to like I think I think that's a really good point. Yep. Great councilmember Rosenberger. I'm sorry.

04:42:47.465 --> 04:42:48.094
- Did you say

04:42:48.226 --> 04:42:57.075
- Let's not talk about suggestions now and do what to do. I'm sorry discussion on the table is postponement

04:42:57.075 --> 04:43:05.673
- Okay, I'm happy to postpone and I have suggestions that can be shared at any time Great. Thank you any

04:43:05.673 --> 04:43:14.021
- other comments Great. Well the clerk clerk, please call the roll councilmember Ruff Rosenberger yes

04:43:14.021 --> 04:43:17.694
- Flaherty yes Stasburg. Yes feed Mount Smith

04:43:18.658 --> 04:43:27.761
- Yes, Zoellick. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes, Daley. Yes Rallo. Yes Thank you that passes and will be Discussed

04:43:27.761 --> 04:43:37.310
- again on July 22nd our next regularly scheduled meeting and now I will hand the gavel back over to council

04:43:37.310 --> 04:43:43.646
- president. I'm sorry Thank you for all the public comment and the time

04:43:43.778 --> 04:43:55.199
- Being here. Are there any other motions? I move that ordinance 2026-14 be introduced and read by the

04:43:55.199 --> 04:44:06.619
- clerk by title and synopsis only Second there's a motion and a second will the clerk please call the

04:44:06.619 --> 04:44:13.630
- roll I'm sorry. I didn't um Yes councilmember Rosenberger Yes

04:44:14.978 --> 04:44:32.129
- Yes, Sasper. Yes Piedmont Smith. Yes, is it like no Sorry, yes Daily yes Rallo. Yes Ruff. Yes. All right

04:44:32.129 --> 04:44:36.702
- with the clerk, please read

04:44:42.274 --> 04:44:50.308
- Will you give me just a moment, please? Of course. Thank you Would you like me to read I'm happy to

04:44:50.308 --> 04:44:58.743
- read I've never got a chance to Say are we allowed to because I Think by ordinance the clerk is required

04:44:58.743 --> 04:45:06.777
- to read so see Respectfully, thank you so much. Yeah, just give me a moment, please and I apologize

04:45:06.777 --> 04:45:07.902
- for the delay

04:45:31.522 --> 04:45:34.078
- Sorry about that, ordinance 2026.

04:45:36.738 --> 04:45:42.876
- Dash 14 to amend title 2 of the Bloomington municipal code entitled administration and personnel to

04:45:42.876 --> 04:45:49.197
- require councilmember sponsorship of legislation under chapter 2.0 for the synopsis is as follows this

04:45:49.197 --> 04:45:55.458
- ordinance sponsored by councilmember Piedmont Smith adds a new paragraph to the Bloomington municipal

04:45:55.458 --> 04:46:01.657
- code section 2.0 4.2 7 0 to require councilmember sponsorship of each item of legislation except for

04:46:01.657 --> 04:46:05.278
- the annual budget legislation and appropriation ordinances

04:46:06.754 --> 04:46:16.171
- All right. Thank you very much I Move that ordinance. Oh, I move that ordinance 20 26-14 be adopted

04:46:16.171 --> 04:46:26.153
- second. Cool. All right councilmember Piedmont Smith. I Really don't have anything to add most excellent.

04:46:26.153 --> 04:46:36.606
- Do we have any amendments? All right public would you like to comment on this I Was so vehement anybody online

04:46:39.170 --> 04:46:47.500
- Fantastic back to council. Would you like to comment on this? Councilmember Stasberg I do want to comment

04:46:47.500 --> 04:46:55.752
- on this because we got some questions last time and I just want to emphasize that this is like the point

04:46:55.752 --> 04:46:58.974
- of this is to Not control the agenda not

04:46:59.330 --> 04:47:06.941
- Keep things from the public but when things are actually presented to the full council that they Have

04:47:06.941 --> 04:47:14.850
- already been through some element of vetting so that so that common questions are already answered within

04:47:14.850 --> 04:47:20.894
- the presentation and things like the amendment that I made earlier to the to the

04:47:20.994 --> 04:47:27.906
- Loans between utilities and ordinance 2026 13 might not be necessary because the language already Makes

04:47:27.906 --> 04:47:34.618
- sense to somebody who's not an attorney and not a specialist in the field so that then there Is just

04:47:34.618 --> 04:47:41.463
- less need for question and confusion because it already it has the clarity And so that I think was the

04:47:41.463 --> 04:47:48.109
- gist of what I wanted to say in terms of response from some of the questions that were brought up a

04:47:48.109 --> 04:47:50.302
- public mic last Thanks Thank you

04:47:50.498 --> 04:47:57.685
- Any other comments? Well, will the clerk please call the roll? Oh, council member Piedmont-Smith. In

04:47:57.685 --> 04:48:04.944
- the nick of time. Sorry, had to physically raise my hand, because I couldn't get to the button. Yeah,

04:48:04.944 --> 04:48:12.131
- I do think, of course, since I'm the sponsor, it's not a surprise that I support this legislation. I

04:48:12.131 --> 04:48:20.030
- do think it will help communication between the mayor's administration and council, and to address some of the

04:48:20.578 --> 04:48:31.381
- public comment we received last week. The commenter felt that sponsorship was a form of permission or

04:48:31.381 --> 04:48:42.184
- a gate that legislation had to go through. And I just wanted to remind everybody that we already have

04:48:42.184 --> 04:48:49.598
- the ability to not introduce legislation just by vote of the council.

04:48:50.018 --> 04:48:58.665
- The Council President does decide whether or not to put something on the agenda, but at any time we

04:48:58.665 --> 04:49:07.485
- can, there's always a vote whether to actually hear it. So I don't think this is creating any more of

04:49:07.485 --> 04:49:12.414
- a barrier to hear legislation than what we already have.

04:49:12.866 --> 04:49:20.451
- The other concern was that there are no standards for council members to follow when they decide whether

04:49:20.451 --> 04:49:27.892
- or not to sponsor legislation. They would just, it's just up to them. But I think since there are nine

04:49:27.892 --> 04:49:35.117
- of us and we all have different ways of thinking about things and different priorities, I don't see

04:49:35.117 --> 04:49:40.318
- the hazard. I don't see that there's more than a minuscule chance that,

04:49:42.370 --> 04:49:52.149
- legislative item will not find sponsorship. So I also don't think that that concern will come about.

04:49:52.149 --> 04:50:02.024
- Another concern expressed last week was the decisions about sponsorship are made behind closed doors.

04:50:02.024 --> 04:50:12.190
- And while that's true, there are many decisions along the way that are made before legislation is ready,

04:50:12.386 --> 04:50:19.406
- that are made behind closed doors because that's, we work on things, we talk back and forth with the

04:50:19.406 --> 04:50:26.495
- Mayor's administration and we talk amongst each other. You know, we make a lot of decisions before we

04:50:26.495 --> 04:50:33.515
- bring something forward and I don't think the public is losing anything by having a council sponsor.

04:50:33.515 --> 04:50:41.022
- I think as a matter of fact, they'd be gaining something because they'd have another elected representative

04:50:41.634 --> 04:50:49.613
- looking at a piece of legislation earlier. And I think that's for the good of the public overall. Another

04:50:49.613 --> 04:50:57.517
- concern that was voiced last week is that this would lead to fewer questions in the public domain during

04:50:57.517 --> 04:51:05.345
- council meetings. And I also find that very doubtful because there would be eight other council members

04:51:05.345 --> 04:51:10.238
- that hadn't sponsored the legislation who would raise questions.

04:51:10.658 --> 04:51:15.717
- And there are people like me who raise questions just for the benefit of the public, even if I know

04:51:15.717 --> 04:51:20.928
- the answers, much to the chagrin of some of my colleagues. So overall, I did, I just wanted to mention

04:51:20.928 --> 04:51:25.987
- those, because I did take seriously the commenter from last week, and I thought about these things,

04:51:25.987 --> 04:51:31.047
- but I still stand by the legislation as it's written, thank you. Most excellent, thank you, Council

04:51:31.047 --> 04:51:36.308
- Member Flaherty. Thank you, just a brief thank you to the committee and to Council Member Piemont-Smith

04:51:36.308 --> 04:51:38.686
- for sponsoring. I think, as noted in the memo,

04:51:39.042 --> 04:51:46.513
- I think I maybe was the one who initially brought this to the committee when I was on it last year and

04:51:46.513 --> 04:51:53.911
- we didn't Get to this stage of legislation at that time. So I appreciate their follow-through and I'm

04:51:53.911 --> 04:52:01.165
- glad to support at times Thank you so much other comments Tremendous will the clerk please call the

04:52:01.165 --> 04:52:05.662
- roll? Councilmember Flaherty, yes Stasberg yes Piedmont Smith

04:52:09.986 --> 04:52:25.278
- Yes, sorry no Daily yes Rallo yes rough Rosenberger no Thank you

04:52:26.306 --> 04:52:33.764
- Thank you so much that passes and we have concluded a marathon of Legislation. Hooray the last moment

04:52:33.764 --> 04:52:41.222
- now for public comment if you did not comment During the first session and you're like, ah, you know,

04:52:41.222 --> 04:52:48.680
- I really want to comment now. Now's your chance Did I think you did you come into the first oh no you

04:52:48.680 --> 04:52:52.702
- did okay, go ahead Sorry, I missed the earlier comment

04:52:54.754 --> 04:53:02.712
- I want to speak briefly about food resilience and some of the challenges facing agriculture today a

04:53:02.712 --> 04:53:10.749
- number of trends are converging Simultaneously the LFPA grants and other grants have ended affecting

04:53:10.749 --> 04:53:16.638
- both the food supplies at the local food banks and farm local farm income

04:53:17.090 --> 04:53:25.209
- Farmers across parts in the Midwest are facing critical drought conditions parts in Nebraska are critically

04:53:25.209 --> 04:53:32.877
- low with an estimated 25 to 40 days of water in reservoirs Because of inflation to increase fuel cost

04:53:32.877 --> 04:53:40.695
- weather Fertilizer supply disruptions farmers are succumbing to financial strain buyers of farm acreage

04:53:40.695 --> 04:53:43.326
- are agribusinesses set snapping up

04:53:43.458 --> 04:53:52.609
- land for consolidation implementing precision agriculture and narrow AI at scale to maximize shareholder

04:53:52.609 --> 04:53:58.622
- value many modern tractors now function as rolling computers and can

04:53:58.754 --> 04:54:05.397
- Include intricate interconnected fleets something I found out just today Farmers have found themselves

04:54:05.397 --> 04:54:12.105
- locked into proprietary software systems that limit repairs access to diagnostic tools and even control

04:54:12.105 --> 04:54:14.878
- over the data generated on their own farms

04:54:15.074 --> 04:54:21.687
- They increasingly depend on software controlled equipment subscription services also named known as

04:54:21.687 --> 04:54:28.300
- SAS and data flat platforms that move farm data into centralized corporate systems that degrade the

04:54:28.300 --> 04:54:35.309
- environment and transfer wealth to Wall Street. The ongoing right to repair movement illustrates a larger

04:54:35.309 --> 04:54:41.393
- question. Who owns the tools data infrastructure that our centralized food system depend on

04:54:41.393 --> 04:54:43.774
- who is controlling our food supply.

04:54:44.194 --> 04:54:51.915
- What are what are their goals a? Resilient alternative is to strengthen the local food system small

04:54:51.915 --> 04:54:59.714
- farms farmers market farm stops gardens orchards poultry keeping local processing and seed companies

04:54:59.714 --> 04:55:07.358
- and nurseries help keep dollars circulating locally while increasing transparency and adaptability

04:55:07.842 --> 04:55:13.869
- Maine has taken an innovative approach through the Food Sovereignty Act. It allows municipalities greater

04:55:13.869 --> 04:55:19.783
- control over local food system. It demonstrates that communities can implement policies that strengthen

04:55:19.783 --> 04:55:25.697
- local food security through sovereignty to retain control locally. The state of Indiana is making small

04:55:25.697 --> 04:55:31.383
- move in this direction through an expansion of the home-based vendor law that goes into effect in a

04:55:31.383 --> 04:55:37.069
- few weeks on July 1st. As Bloomington continues discussing sustainability, resilience, and economic

04:55:37.069 --> 04:55:37.808
- development,

04:55:37.808 --> 04:55:43.554
- us to consider creating a position for a food systems coordinator and educator Funding a local seed

04:55:43.554 --> 04:55:49.645
- bank supporting processing facilities and providing education on food storage Which is desperately needed

04:55:49.645 --> 04:55:55.621
- with the environmental political and technological issues. We currently face Thank you I also encourage

04:55:55.621 --> 04:56:01.481
- the council to consider integrating food sovereignty in the municipal code as has been done by cities

04:56:01.481 --> 04:56:03.550
- such as Waterville, Maine Thank you

04:56:03.746 --> 04:56:11.468
- Thank you. Thank you Anyone online for a final comment. Thank you all for being here council. Let's

04:56:11.468 --> 04:56:19.190
- move to Questions of council schedule as you hopefully aware we did not have a meeting for the next

04:56:19.190 --> 04:56:26.913
- six weeks Please enjoy that time. Goodbye. Oh Importantly, we do have a joint session tomorrow with

04:56:26.913 --> 04:56:28.766
- the with the county and

04:56:29.058 --> 04:56:35.601
- If you're able to make it, I know some of us aren't going to be able to make it But if you're able to

04:56:35.601 --> 04:56:42.015
- make it, please We just had quorum. So please go and go to the bathroom for council members who are

04:56:42.015 --> 04:56:48.621
- Not planning on not attending if you could please let me know Before you leave tonight, I'd appreciate

04:56:48.621 --> 04:56:55.292
- it And I just want to make sure to announce the fiscal committee meeting that is on Friday at 830 Thank

04:56:55.292 --> 04:56:56.062
- you. Thanks

04:56:56.386 --> 04:56:59.902
- All right, everybody have a wonderful break. This meeting is a George