Like to call this meeting of the Common Council to order for June 10th that will please call the roll
Stasburg here Piedmont Smith Here Zulik here. Sorry here daily here Rallo here rough Rosenberger here.
Thank you. I
Thank you so much. All right, the agendas are posted there. There's some printed out there. We have
Quite a few items for second reading. I'm today and in addition to the many other things Are there any
motions for the agenda? I move to amend the agenda to move the reading of ordinance 20 26-12 so that
it is considered immediately after resolution 20 26-10 second. There's a motion in a second Will the
clerk please call the roll on that?
Discussion points councilman Stasberg. I Guess like I don't necessarily have that huge a concern except
that that's an agenda item that a lot of people might have wanted to do public comment on and I guess
I'm just concerned that people especially who might be online might be arriving late Knowing that it's
toward the end of the agenda is not a concern for anybody else. I Thought it was actually being kind
by trying to move it faster so that people
Be done with their night sooner who were looking to comment. All right. I mean I if that's not a concern
for anybody else then that's Okay, then you have comments Fantastic. Will the clerk please call the
roll? Yes Stasper yes Piedmont Smith Yes, Zulek. Yes. Sorry. Yes, Bailey. Yes Rallo. Yes rough. Yes
Rosenberger. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right Do we have any minutes for approval? No
Seeing none we will move on to reports to any councilmember has reports Seeing none we will move on
to reports from the The ESD department take it away
Do you have the slide deck for the presentation? All right, I'm Jane Cooper Smith director of economic
and sustainable development for the city of Bloomington My colleague Andrea de la Rosa is also here
this evening and I think we'll be cruising in to pick up this presentation at some point So this evening
we will present the 2025 tax abatement compliance report which fulfills a statutory reporting requirement and
Will also present information on active pilots and then we will be happy to receive questions at the
end of the presentation I'll just pass the mic to my colleague if she's ready Okay, thanks Thank you
for your patience
Good evening. I'm Andrea de la Rosa assistant director for small business development tonight I'll present
the 2025 tax abatement compliance report which fulfills the Indiana statutory reporting requirement
Director Cooper Smith will present information on active pilots. We will be happy to receive questions
at the end of the presentation This evening will cover a summary of the tax abatement program economic
impact of abatements review of active pilots and
The Economic Development Commission unanimously approved this report on June 2nd 2026 to keep
the presentation within the allotted time The overview section will be omitted but retained in the slide
deck for public reference Supporting materials are included in your packet in an accessible format What
is the tax abatement
Tax abatement temporarily reduces taxes on new investment in real or personal property It applies only
to the increment the increased the increase in assessed value due to the project The property's original
value continues to be taxed Eligibility and reprieve and approval projects must be located in a designated
economic revitalization area some residential projects also require designation as an economic development
target area
Approval involves involves review by city staff a formal recommendation for and the Economic Development
Commission and final designation and authorization by the Common Council through a public process Most
abatements last one to ten years and follow a sliding scale personal property abatements can go up to
20 years state law allows the for alternative schedules if justified by the project and
Each application includes an SP one form which sets baseline projections for investment assessed value
job creation and wages We also evaluate community-based. I'm sorry community focus goals such as affordable
housing sustainability full-time employment and contributions to local character Rules and responsibility
and attacks in tax abatement approvals
This is the compliance review process the staff reviews EDC recommends common council authorizes and
county and ministers Projects are monitored annually through CF one filings staff evaluates actual for
actual performance against SB one commitments projects are classified as compliant Substantially compliant
and non-compliant
The EDC forwards the report to the council for final action where the council may approve abatements
as compliant or Substantially compliant or request a hearing to consider a finding of non-compliance
relevant departments such as hand also review specific commitments including affordable housing requirements
a hearing is required for any non-compliance finding as the council must determine whether unmet commitments
results resulted from factors within the company's control and
the economic impact overview overview new real personal property investment Five hundred and thirty
nine million dollars in proposed investment four hundred eleven million in actual investment assessed
value increased from 164 million to two hundred and three million dollars This increase meets the but
for standard these gains wouldn't have occurred without the abatements. I
Jobs and wages. Projects reported 1,938 total jobs and $152 million in salaries. While some fell short
of job targets, several exceed wage projections, indicating fewer but higher paying jobs. For example,
Catalan's average full-time wages are around $81,000. Affordable housing outcomes.
Abatements also supported deeply affordable housing new urban station 15 affordable using units at below
at or below 80% with a specified rent range of six hundred and forty one dollars to twelve hundred and
eighty two dollars Tenants currently have an average AMI of forty one point seven five percent average
rent is at eight hundred and fifteen dollars a month and occupancy is at forty one hundred and forty percent
Southern all 31 units at 28% AMI 94% occupancy union at Crescent 102 units allocated at or below 60%
AMI with 15 units flexible for market rate or affordable housing 36 currently occupied for a total of
61% these projects show how abatements are leveraged to expand housing access and
Southern Ola's in its sixth year of abatement exceeded investment job and wage commitments The assessed
value is at 130 percent of its SB 1 projection 26 units serve households at or below 60 percent AMI
Staff recommends a finding of compliance for this project Union at Crescent unit at Crescent is a hundred.
I'm sorry 146 unit mixed income development
102 units committed as affordable at 60% AMI 63 of the 120 committed units are currently occupied at
62% occupancy This is lower than the 2024 occupancy rate of 64 percent However, the property has undergone
significant effort and expense to support a turnaround property management reverted to the developer
the annex group in March 2025 and
City staff from hand and office of the mayor have been working to improve this property since 2024 a
security trailer was installed which supported a reduction in calls a Traffic barricade was insulted
was installed to stop through traffic in 2025 the property owner spent 1 million directly on replacing
HVAC units exterior siding and other items covering 30 units in total five units had
significant mold issues that it's seated remediation necessitate necessitating an expenditure of $120,000
for just those five units 31 evictions were were processed since March 22 2025 in accordance with lease
enforcement procedures The property now holds a city occupancy permit following repeated re-inspections
due to code compliance issues
The property passed all compliance inspections hand in January IH CDA in April and home units in April
in 2025 staff issued a recommendation of non-compliance Following a July hearing an abatement was approved
after low occupancy rates were determined to be due to factors outside the company's control This year
following significant investments in capital and staff resources
The turnaround plan staff recommended a finding of substantial compliance to the EDC the EDC approved
that recommendation Recommendation which is reflected in this presentation at this at this hearing council
may approve May approve the recommendation or call for a hearing should additional information from
the property owner be required questions about this property are welcome at the end of this presentation and
New investment is at 159% of its SP 1 projection full-time staff at double the SP 1 projection and 163%
more than the Bloomington living wage ordinance Unit and Crescent has hired a third-party consulting
service to hit the 85% total occupancy goal by August 20 26 given the major investment investments the
eviction renovation new lease up and reputational repair
City staff believes that the annex group is doing everything within its power to bring the property
back to the required occupancy rate Staff recommends a finding of substantial compliance due to significant
investment and progress in the proposed turnaround plan Urban station is a four-story mixed-use building
with 7,000 square feet of commercial space and 148 bedrooms exceeding the investment this exceeded the
investment commitments and
It fell short unemployment, but retained wages above the proposed SB 1 commitment Providing 23 bedrooms
at or below 80% AMI and exceeding commitment by 40% 100% occupancy in affordable units staff recommends
a finding of substantially compliant Willery mill
Historic mill redevelopment on tap wrote Reported four point three million in real estate investment
toward a six million dollar commitment Phase one is completed the event space phase two. The condo hotel
is delayed due to market conditions William will created 60 jobs versus the 45 projected full and part-time
salaries met or exceeded goals The assessed value current is currently at 2.5 million on track to relative
Track relative to developmental stage staff recommends a finding of substantially compliant The catalytic
summary catalytic holds three active abatements now under novo nor disc following the late 2024 acquisition
Resolutions 1506 and 1904 exceeded investment and salary targets and
recommends I'm sorry Staff recommendation is that 1506 and 1904 are compliant with tax payment commitments
Resolution 2206 210 million in total investment over the lifetime of the abatement to date and staff
finds can find substantially compliant and
This is a breakdown of the retained employment new employment and total employment for Catalan This
is broken out by each resolution SB ones for 1506 1904 and 2206 show the proposed employment for retained
new and total the 2206 CF one filing indicates employment across all sites Catalan reported a total
year-end headcount of 1867 employees
This is a little bit more straightforward slide to reflect that This slide compares projected and reported
salary outcomes for resolutions 1506 1904 and 2206 based on CF one filings resolutions 1506 and 1904
projected SP one salaries of 300 I'm sorry thirty four point two million dollars
That's resolution 1506 and fifty seven point two million dollars resolution 1904 to equal ninety one
point four million dollars actual reported salary of the CF one was a hundred and fifty point eight
million dollars projected average wage was fifty five thousand dollars, but the actual average wage
is eighty thousand
resolution 2206 projected a salary of 267 million actual reported at 150 point eight million million
This is inherited data with no new jobs added Additionally cattle and also provided median wage numbers
and salaries this afternoon These numbers also exceed the SB 1 wages and salaries as opposed to having
an average where we're taking all the numbers and just Figuring out the thing that's in the middle.
This is a good assessment
against higher wages and lower wages Average median hourly wage is $35.25 average median total wages
are 68 thousand one hundred dollars hourly rate hourly range is from $19 to 160 $160 and salary ranges start at
$15,000 which is part-time to six hundred and ninety thousand dollars And this is the wages broken out
a little bit more clearly as opposed to having each individual CF one Staff recommends compliance for
1506 1904 and substantial compliance for 2206 with continued monitoring
Retreat at switch shard is No longer under construction. I forgot to fix that in my script They are
up and running and we're very excited about their ribbon cutting tomorrow This is a huge milestone for
them it's been a long time getting this project off the ground and
This is a affordable housing unit affordable housing development, which includes 64 units in a five-story
building with dedicated first floor retail space 48 of the housing units are already Occupied so 75%
of the total units I'm sorry for 8% of the housing units Ours are for low to moderate income residents
for a period of 99 years and the remaining 16 units will be available for lease on the market and
Partnering with stone belt and will set aside 10 units of the 48 as housing along with additional service
areas within the project for stone belts clients According to the position or statement of benefits
this project would create two new full-time permanent jobs with an estimated total annual payroll of
$80,000 with the lower the low starting full-time wage of $35,000 per year the construction is complete
41 units are occupied and
And 35 units are at or below 60% AMI So as you can see there has been a substantial investment in this
property which is far exceeding their SB 1 commitments the new salaries and the assessed value are also
exceeding the original commitments and
We also monitor for pilot agreements that support long-term affordable housing at or below 60% AMI and
director Cooper Smith will present these now Thanks D I'm back okay, so we have four active pilots well
to our only are active and to our not yet started but evergreen village is the first one it's located
at 3607 South Henderson and
This pilot was approved in 2016 for a 115 unit residential care facility for residents at 60% or below
AMI this Payment as mark does not yet received it was sent It was it never landed for some reason, but
they're sending a new payment as of today So that there's no issue there in my opinion country view
Located at 2500 South Rockport Road. This pilot supported the rehabilitation and preservation of 206
affordable apartments These are available at 60% AMI below and this pilot is active and compliant all
paid up Cambridge Square this body will remember as you approved this pilot in 2025 it's located at
307 North Pete Ellis Drive and
This pilot was approved last year and will last 17 years it facilitated rehab of 153 units for residents
62 and up or differently abled. No payment is due until next year for this property I asked for a status
update on the renovation all interiors of units are completed kitchens baths flooring full ADA accessible
units, etc They are working on stair repairs and just started the second elevator modernization with
one more to be done after that
Concrete and asphalt items will be starting shortly and should be completed by July amenities are completed.
There was one vacancy at that At that location and then Henderson Court is the other pilot that you
approved last year. It's located at 2475 South Winslow Court It supports the rehabilitation of 150 units
that are highly affordable at 60% AMI and below it also accepts section 8 housing assistance program
vouchers or
Payments housing assistance payments all interiors of the units are completed. So kitchens baths flooring
full ADA accessible units and they have some remaining roofs to replace some deck work to be completed
completed a sagging floor And amenities are not yet done. So they're waiting on a permit for the dog
park playground and sidewalks and they are working through that with the city staff right now and
Then remaining our asphalt and concrete and landscaping so so they're moving along no vacant units.
So I think that concludes The pilot portion of this and then with that we're happy happy to take questions
I might just Observe one other thing that we filed a separate memo for you all for Union at Crescent
just so that you had detailed information available at that about that
Abatement, so right now it's still contained in this full suite But if you choose to request a hearing
I think it will be helpful for you to have all that information separately Thank you so much director
Cooper Smith and director de la Rosa any questions first All right seeing none Councilmembers are there
any is there anyone that you'd like to call for a hearing or are we happy to proceed with the recommendation
staff? Please
Thank you. Thank you so much for all this. I'm glad to hear that Union Crescent seems to be doing a
whole lot better Do either of you know or is there hand stuff here? Who knows because I know that part
of those struggle there was a struggle of reputation That started like really going downhill. Has there
been some recovery in that? reputational kind of damage as they've done these repairs and Are there
fewer like complaints?
I I know hand can attest that there are fewer complaints about the facility in terms of reputation I
don't really feel like I can comment on that, but I think all of these improvements Drive toward that
and the reputational repair probably has the longest timeline on it. Okay? Thanks. Does does director
Killian Hansen wanna?
Anna Killian Hansen housing and neighborhood development It's hard to speak to reputation because I
feel like that is in the eye of the beholder However, I will say just anecdotally that we have received
fewer complaints that they did receive their rental permit finally and
They did go to the building housing quality appeals board for an extension of time to resolve a lot
of their issues They are actively putting money into the property Evictions take time when you have
troubled tenants that are causing damage to the units and so it it takes time to turn that ship I can't
speculate as to
what the future will hold, but I will say that we're in a much better position today than we were in
2024 or even last year. So things just take time, but hopefully, yes. Okay, great. Thank you. I'm just
really glad to hear that. Yeah. Yes, thank you for the report.
First of all, I wanted to request that in the future we have, for the jobs created, we have the number
of full-time versus part-time. That would help us better evaluate the value of those salaries. Secondly,
and probably most more important in this context, is the Cadillac tax abatement, which really should
be called the Novo Nordisk tax abatement at this point.
I don't understand why they're considered substantially compliant when the planned jobs in the SB one
were four thousand two hundred twelve and the actuals are one thousand eight hundred sixty seven Thanks
for these questions just one note on the way we report jobs I agree that it would be better if we could
have those total jobs numbers they're not required through the SB one through the state reporting so
we can request them and It's just if the organization chooses to
Provide them they're not obligated, but we can certainly ask for them and then on the Nova Nordisk Abatement
that was previously Catalan this Gets to the issue of factors within or outside the company's control
and the major job loss there happened actually shortly after I Mean, it's really in 2023. I think they
had their first job loss and this was
Their growth was due to the pandemic and the Defense Production Act which drove vaccine production to
that site for J&J and Moderna and so the city they had massive growth and the city provided these abatements
they they had one round of growth and then this Supported kind of like a second big push the site rose
at one point to I think 30 to
700 jobs. I think that was the peak number and then the market completely bottomed out of the vaccine
market bottomed out and You know, it is just the it is the staff opinion that this is a factor outside
of their control and that the company is Motivated to employ as many people as it possibly can and
also must protect the organization so that it's available for long-time employment. So I hope that answers
the question. And if more information is needed, we'd be happy to try to investigate that. So couldn't
that be foreseen that the vaccine production would slow down at some point?
The question on the state's SB or the state's Sorry, the information in the state statute is only about
whether it is within or outside of the company's control and so market forces are necessarily outside
the company's control and whether they could foresee it or not, I Don't know. I assume that they Would
anticipate that there would be changes there would be market fluctuations. I
Okay, and do you know whether the employee numbers are stabilizing at this point? Yes, so they had an
additional series of reduction. They had another reduction in force this year, and we have
been in communication with the employer. The plant manager reached out to
The mayor to talk about the process that they were going through with employees in what what he emphasized
was that this Decision which was odious to them. It was what they You know least want to do but that
it was essential for their long-term stability for them to be able to be a Stable a stable partner and
a stable operation in Bloomington
They didn't give any indication whether more job cuts are coming or whether they consider it stable
at this point And we know they gave the impression that this was the this was kind of the mate this
was the major reorg that they were going through and It was not indicated that there would be incremental
changes I This is probably color commentary and so I I
Like what I just said is probably color commentary. So I don't know Yeah I'm going by what the information
that we were given but I hope it's you know, yeah Okay, thank you Thank you so much council members
anybody is there any motion to call anybody for a For a hearing are you happy to continue?
Just doing comments or questions What I'm asking for is we have it we have a choice We can call for
a vote just to approve as they've as they've proposed But if there's a particular entity that you'd
like to have a hearing for we can start that process as well Yeah, I just wanted to make a general comment
Okay, go ahead then and then and then we'll I'll just well if there can be a motion for a vote thereafter
That'd be great. Well, thank you Council president, sorry this is always since the beginning of
By serving on council the whole tax abatement Program and I know a lot of is driven by the state the
rules and Conditions are set by the state, but it's always been so it's always been such a problem for
me this idea that Market forces are outside their control That's what business is right you and you
take a loss if you have have a loss and If you get a windfall
There's no sharing of that with with the with the community So if you have the what the but for test
where this investment wouldn't have been made by the company Had it not been for the tax abatement and
then in a scenario where that would lead you had a windfall where it just turned out to be just a great
Investment and it briefed all kinds of benefits to the company That's outside that's the market forces
and it seems
Always seem to me like there should be some sharing of windfall profits when things go super well If
we're going to say when things don't go well, it's a Mark it's a market forces outside their control
and they're not really out of compliance with with promises now I understand and I believe that The
firms all want to be good corporate citizens but just the the whole idea that
You know, we we subsidize it's just a classic example of socializing risk and loss and Privatizing the
profits mainly primarily to seems to me like anyway, that's all. Thank you. Thank you Right as them
is can I entertain a motion at this point to approve the report as given If somebody would like to move
Sure, I move to approve the report as given second
There's a motion and a second any discussion Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember Sasberg.
Yes, he's not Smith Yes Zulek, yes. Sorry. Yes. Daily. Yes. Rallo. Yes, rough. Yes Ross Rosenberger.
Yes and flirty. Yes
Thank you so much. And thank you to the SD department for your time moving on to council committees
We have a report from hiring committee councilor Zulek and then afterwards to councilmember Stossberg
for fiscal committee. Yes Thank you. So we did receive five applications for our council attorney position
and We will be conducting interviews over the break. We will be interviewing I believe all five candidates
and given the
availability of The council members on the hiring committee We are going to need to designate council
president. Sorry to swap council members in and out as needed But I'm happy to answer any questions
about that the context is certain council members are going to be out of town and We need to meet quorum.
So we might need some people swapped out
Any questions? Can I just add one context, two context things and then Councillor Piedmont-Smith might
have something. The goal is we're going to do quick interviews with the first five and then with the
idea of hopefully from that group finding sort of two to three candidates and then we'll make sure that
everybody gets a chance to meet sort of the finalists. We'll do a sort of longer set of interviews for
those finalists, if you will. So it'll be a couple of rounds here just to clarify on that.
And so yeah, sorry, I'll stop talking What exactly do you mean by like swapping people in and out and
getting quorum Councilmember Piedmont Smith and I are both gonna be out of the country and and so we're
gonna have a little bit of difficulty Having enough people in person in Bloomington to hold the the
interviews so we might need
someone else to serve on the committee so that we can make quorum and keep progress. I guess I thought
procedurally that the president had to like do that in public in terms of switching committee things.
So like what does that look like or do we have to have a motion saying that you can do that behind the
scenes. And similarly like those interviews aren't actually public though right. Correct.
So are they counted as executive sessions because I wasn't sure the executives that that interviews
can count as executive sessions Councilman council attorney session and this account of personnel matters
in terms of alternate members on the committee I'd recommend having a vote on that and naming the alternate
members that would be on that committee to serve as needed
We could name them now as alternates. Yes, okay So so with that we don't need a motion for that I can
just name them because the statute says that the president gets to name alternates Can I just name everybody
on council as an alternate and just move that way? I guess you could but it you know Well, just a quick
question and I don't want to we don't have to waste so much time on this but it is there I mean if nobody
is available that's that's
It's um, you know, we can just push off the interviews for a longer time But is anybody available over
the next six weeks in any increment to do an interview in person? Can you say the dates the dates the
dates are yet to be determined? Correct. I am mostly available Okay, so so so I would like to appoint
councilmember Flaherty as an alternate to this committee I'm available until July 10th
Okay, fantastic. I would like to appoint councilmember Rosenberger as an alternate to this committee
I have another question. Yes, please. I think we've accomplished Do we need to? Have any kind
of clarification to make sure like in this like alternate scenario like Are they alternating?
Are they specifically going in for somebody? Do we have to specify that there's not never gonna be a
quorum of counsel at any of these if there are more alternates like I just I just want to make sure
that we're like dotting our eyes and crossing exactly so so I mean, I think that obviously like we're
not gonna have a quorum of counsel with Like is there more attorney Allen that we have to do to ensure
that kind of scenario doesn't happen and that
Other than please don't have five of you show up exactly. Yes So as long as five of us don't show up,
it's fine. It still has to be noticed I mean there are elements of even if it is, you know for for the
interviews It still has to be noticed as a committee as a quorum of the committee And so there would
still be a public notice that's sent out for it But certainly because you know as long as it's being
held in accordance with the personnel rules There's no there's no issue though All right, so so I'm going to
I've said this officially then and there would be alternates for councilmember P month Smith and myself
All right. So, okay. Is that is that all you need then is the two and that one? Yes, I think we'll be
good. Okay. Yes And again, we'll make sure that everybody has opportunities to meet to meet with these
candidates as we progress through I'll pass to you council member Stossberg for a fiscal committee report
Thank you, um, I just kind of realized that I
You know, it's halfway through the year and I don't think that I'd actually given an official fiscal
committee report and so I Wrote up just a little something. I'm trying to find it right now. Oh Dear
just about what we have been doing this year and oh my gosh, there are like three packets here right now, so I
There it is So if you read it, that's basically all it is. We've been meeting about every two weeks
We decided as a committee that it would be easier for us and easier on our schedules to have more frequent
shorter meetings so we're pretty good at keeping them to an hour and then at some meetings we're talking
about administrative sort of stuff and at the other meetings we're talking about council related stuff
and so I have some things listed about the specifics of what those might entail and
Yeah, that's that's about it. I guess I'm hoping that everybody read those two pages and I don't feel
a need to To add anything to it I just wanted to make sure to give people an opportunity to ask any
questions about what's going on in fiscal committee Or weigh in at all on anything Thank you so much
any questions Fantastic and do we have any other council committees?
None none and okay fantastic. Do we have any we will move on now to the first session of public comment
This is everyone's favorite part of the council meeting Is there anybody here that would like to make
comment on something that is not on the agenda? If you would like to you can have some time and there
will be another moment to do that at the end No one in chambers. Is there anyone online? Anyone online
Are you conferring about whether or not there's someone online? Okay, I'm going to take that to mean
that there's no one online So I still don't think they heard the question. Is there anybody online?
All right, so no one online we will move on there'll be another moment for public comment any appointments
of boards and commissions All right, seeing none. We'll move on to legislation for second readings and
resolutions. I Move that resolution 20 26-10 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis
only second
There's a motion in a second or the clerk, please call the roll Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes,
so like yes, sorry. Yes, Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes, Ruff. Yes, Rosenberger. Yes Flaherty. Yes, Stasburg.
Yes. Thank you very much. Well, please read
resolution 2026 dash 10 on the existential risk of artificial intelligence. The synopsis is as follows.
This resolution is sponsored by council member Rallo. It calls for officials at all levels of government
to consider and acquaint themselves with the existential risks posed by artificial intelligence and
calls for the imposition of a moratorium on artificial general intelligence development until there
is a guarantee that the technology aligns with human values and wellbeing.
Excellent. Thank you very much. I move that resolution 20 26-10 be adopted second. All right Thank you
president sorry, this is resolution 20 26 10 on the existential risk of artificial intelligence the
focus of this resolution is on advanced models of the frontier AI companies mostly located in Silicon
Valley, but some international such as those in China and
These companies are in a race to achieve AGI, artificial general intelligence, that may already be super
intelligent when AGI is attained or will soon evolve to be once AGI is achieved. Artificial general
intelligence, also known as agentic AI, is capable of acting autonomously and is capable of equaling
or surpassing humans in all cognitive domains. It is designed to replace people,
and that is its main economic incentive for its development. AGI with general capabilities is distinguished
from narrow AI, which is designed to excel in specific tasks. Narrow AI, for instance, has been used
for healthcare diagnostics, precision X-ray analysis, protein folding for drug development, fraud detection
in banking, and so forth, all beneficial for human beings. Narrow AI needs regulation too,
But unlike general intelligence, it does not exhibit agency. It will not compete for control. Agentic
AI with super intelligence has been warned about for decades. It was thought to be many years away,
decades, 50, 100 years away, but with the rate of change, it could arrive now within the next few years.
While striving for AGI, the Frontier Labs have been endowing their models with the ability to develop
their own code to improve themselves. Anthropic, one of the Frontier companies, for instance, their
model is Claude, is programming about 80% of its own code currently. Soon, it's expected to be 100%,
autonomously developing itself. AI safety experts have warned of the dangers of this
in what they say could well result in what's called an intelligence explosion, whereby the AI model
improves itself in a recurrent self-improvement that no one can control. No one can control it because
it will have far exceeded our intelligence. Our intelligence, after all, is why we are the dominant
species on Earth. No other animal has even the remotest chance of taking control from humans.
Larry Allen, could you display that figure the first figure? And it's also the reason why we've appropriated
Most of the habitats on earth because of our intelligence We have driven most wild animals to the margins
or they have had to adapt to the modified habitat that we have created for ourselves So this these figures
show the mammalian biomass
of planet Earth currently and only about 5% is relegated to wild mammals the remainder the other 95
is either occupied by humans by our livestock or our pets and It's very similar situation with birds.
They may be better adapted in some ways to our artificial habit habitats, but
Poultry occupy the vast majority of bird biomass on the earth. So what would happen if we had the second
most intelligent species? Keep in mind that the difference in intelligence between us and chimpanzees
is about five to one. There are over eight billion people. There's about 50,000 chimpanzees on the planet.
Super-intelligent AI ratio of intelligence could be 10 to one.
100 to one, 1,000 to one. We would be no match for them. We would lose control. If this sounds fanciful,
consider what Jeffrey Hinton, the godfather of modern AI, and Nobel Prize winner says, quoting, this
is not science fiction, and it is not fear-mongering, it is real. He has recently placed a probability
of our survival of achieving super-intelligent AI at 50%.
Other AI safety experts place our survival at zero. Eliezer Yudkowsky and Nate Soares in their book,
best-selling New York Times, if anyone builds it, everyone dies. Why superhuman AI would kill us all.
They argue that we would simply be displaced if superintelligent AI or superintelligent AI may just
choose to eliminate us.
It would surely want our resources, material and energy for itself, that we currently use, just as we
appropriate planet Earth for our needs. Another AI safety expert, Roman Yompolsky, the person who coined
the term AI safety, who has published over 100 papers on the topic, also asserts that we would not survive
super-intelligent AI.
In a recent talk at Oxford University, London, he describes it as, quote, a giant experiment being performed
on humanity without our consent involving the possible extermination of eight billion people and all
future descendants. People ask, couldn't we just program them to treat us well? This is called the alignment
problem. Couldn't we just align them with human well-being, program them to treat us kindly with respect,
The AI experts say no. First, it is difficult because human values are incredibly complex and nuanced.
Second, it is difficult because modern AIs are not programmed as much as they are grown within inscrutable
neural networks, within huge data centers. Neural networks that are impossible to understand. In short,
the developers have no means to control these AIs. They don't understand how they work. They admit to
this, by the way.
and yet they continue to develop ever more powerful AI models. They are becoming so powerful that some
researchers are leaving to become whistleblowers, like top researcher of open AI, Daniel Toggio, warning
of reckless drive to super intelligence, and Renak Sharma, who quit Anthropic recently, warning in his
resignation letter that, quote, humanity is in peril.
Even some of the CEOs are sounding the alarm. Dario Amadei of Anthropic last November gave a 25% probability
in an interview with Access Magazine of something very bad, in quotes, coming from the technology. And
last week the company announced that they are in favor of a pause of all research because, quote, there
is no brake pedal and that they say they may lose control of their models.
Resolution 20 26 10 describes and references what I've said here and more Having listened to the AI
experts who issue these warnings what they say often in unison is that there needs to be greater awareness
of this dire problem and civic a civic response from our leadership from some from citizens Express
to our leadership in Washington to do something while we still can
I hope that this discussion and resolution help achieve this goal. I'm very fortunate in this process
to have made the acquaintance of those who are working on this on the national and global level on AI
safety. I am indebted to Peter Jensen at safeaiforever.org, and with his assistance, we have a short
video provided by Peter Bereson, PhD economist, former vice president of Goldman Sachs in New York,
where he also served as chief economist
now serving as chief global strategist at BCA Research. He provided this video specifically for this
resolution. Could we play the short video? It's about three minutes. Hello, my name is Peter Pearson.
I'm the chief economist at BCA Research. Today I'd like to talk to you about super intelligence and
the risk and the rewards that it entails.
The last radius from human technology has continued to expand over the last few millennia. We started
off with how far one could throw a rock, then how far one could throw a sphere, then a bullet,
then a missile, and now we've reached AI. AI potentially can be a wonderful thing. We all face our own
personal extras. AI could lead to a cure,
of many, many diseases. That is something that's worth pursuing, but we need to do it safely. The IRA
famously tried to kill Mary Patrick in the 1980s. Luckily, they failed. But their statement after the
attempt should be reminded to us. They said that we only have to be lucky once, but you have to be lucky
every time.
Consider the MERS virus, Middle Eastern respiratory syndrome virus, a very close cousin of COVID-19.
That particular strain of the coronavirus has a fatality rate around 30%. If someone were to engineer
this virus, they could do extreme damage to the world, perhaps even leading to eventual extinction of
the human race. It doesn't have to be this way.
The AI companies continue to say that if we don't get to super intelligence first, someone else will,
whether it be China or some other competitor. That's a false economy. This is a matter of the catheter
first. Super intelligence leads to mass destruction, and everyone suffers. And economically, it's not
even true either. As an economist, I can say that sometimes it does make sense to have the first mover manage.
software, social media, if you get there first with the established launch interface, you can succeed.
That's not necessarily true for AI. When you interact with AI, you're interacting with the AI, not with
other users of AI. So you don't have these net effects that make, say, social media so sticky. AI, in
some sense, is more like a traditional manufacturing process. High cap X requirements, ongoing issues.
It's a lot like a bunch of emails. As tests were learned in China, you don't necessarily succeed immediately
there first.
So these companies can't afford to pause. They can't afford to slow down and make sure that the safety
standards are good enough to avoid a worst case who comes while enhancing the probability of the best
case scenarios. Thank you. I want to thank Peter Bereson for that video. He was traveling. Otherwise,
he would have attended the meeting.
We're also extremely fortunate to have the director of a the premier ice AI safety organization future
of life And he is a theoretical physicist and cosmologist Anthony query joins us I've invited to provide
a statement and then he'll be available for council questions Hello Anthony, can you hear us?
I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes
Sound and clear. Thank you. You may proceed. Good evening, council members. My name is Anthony Geary.
I'm a professor of physics and also the head of the Future of Life Institute, an independent international
nonprofit that seeks to steer transformative technology, especially advanced AI, in beneficial directions.
When we founded the Future of Life Institute 12 years ago, the idea that AI could convincingly pass
for a human or prove new mathematical theorems, write complex computer code,
ace nearly any human exam was a fantasy, thought to be decades or even centuries away. Now it is here.
Just this week, a new AI system was released that matches top human experts in writing computer code
or hacking into systems, and it advanced mathematics. It can work on its own, unsupervised, on tasks
it would take expert humans days to do. AI is advancing faster than nearly anyone predicted, now driven
by the world's largest corporations. So where is it taking us?
Well, here's what I believe. If we continue on our current AI developmental trajectory, within one to
five years, we will see highly autonomous AI systems that compete with top human experts on a full range
of cognitive tasks. This is sometimes called AGI for artificial general intelligence, or as I prefer,
autonomous general intelligence. This would be AI that is not only very smart and very knowledgeable,
but able to act independently of human oversight, carrying out complex plans in pursuit of long-term
goals. You might think of current AI systems as things with a 130 IQ, that's measured by the way, and
like a master's degree in every subject, especially strong in computer science and mathematics, but
that make frequent mistakes and are not terribly original or competent in getting things done.
But extrapolating the trends in AI capability
indicates that within several years, they could easily be more like 150 IQ with a PhD in everything
and able to successfully run a large business or do cutting edge scientific research. It's imperative
to really grapple with what this would mean. I and many other independent experts believe that development
of highly expert level autonomous general intelligence, AGI, would present an acute risk to our society,
to national security, and to humanity itself.
The range of these risks cannot be covered in a short statement, so I'll focus on two, human
labor replacement and development of artificial superintelligence. First on human replacement, AGI is
being specifically pursued to replace rather than empower or aid human workers. That is the prize the
companies are pursuing. It is right in the definition employed, for example, by OpenAI at its foundation,
highly autonomous systems that outperform humans at most economically valuable work.
This is not labor displacement like previous technologies, but wholesale drop in replacement of tens
of percent of the labor force potentially in the course of a few years. Even if AI went no further than
this, I believe it would be catastrophic for our society. There's no viable plan in any country to address
such a rapid and unprecedented upending of the human labor and income system. Moreover, AI doing all
of the important work means AI making the important decisions as well.
we would effectively be living in a world run by machines, not people. But AI companies also have no
intention of even stopping at human replacing AI. Their goal is artificial superintelligence, AI that
competes not just with the best humans, but with humanity as a whole, and they are succeeding. Part
of why they focus so heavily on AI that writes computer code is that AI is itself in part computer code.
Such systems can write improved versions of themselves, which create even more powerful systems and so on.
Just days ago, Anthropic, a leading AI company, laid this out in a paper entitled, When AI Builds Itself.
It makes clear that this is already starting. I cannot emphasize how dangerous this is. Enough. If AI
is allowed to become super intelligent, its developers could not predict, understand, nor control for
long what it does. It would operate at inhuman speed, scale, and sophistication toward goals fundamentally
unknown to us.
This is why many eminent researchers and company heads themselves signed a statement that AI poses an
extinction risk to humanity. And this is not a small risk. Many of the builders themselves put it at
10 or 20%, Russian roulette odds, as we heard earlier, some much higher. This is on the literal cessation
of the human species and everything that we care about. I understand how hard this is to take in, given
how big it feels and how irresponsible it sounds.
but this is what is actually happening. The risks are extreme. The good news is that this is not inevitable.
The path laid out by a few giant US AI companies is not the only possible one, and there are
still opportunities to switch to another that develops powerful, trustworthy AI tools that empower and
complement people rather than replacing them, and robustly maintains human control and responsibility.
Such tools would still enable medical and scientific breakthroughs,
huge productivity boosts and products allowing people to do things they never could. We just need to
give up the poorly chosen goal of replicating and then exceeding all human capability and AI replacements.
With such a seemingly obvious choice for what is best, why then is the current dynamic happening?
For AGI, it is because of the potential financial prize for companies, a large stake of the $50 trillion
human labor market. Their investors won't let them stop. For superintelligence, it is about power.
Each company feels the same way. If we don't do it, they will. If companies can't stop themselves, it
falls to the rest of us to do so in the common interest. This will take urgent action at the US federal
and international level. The AI companies and their lobbyists have so far been able to block any meaningful
regulation of AI. But recently, things have been changing. The risk is becoming obvious. And pressure
is building from everyday people in communities worried about their futures. You have an opportunity
today with this resolution to add to that pressure
and to take a stand on behalf of the human future. Thank you. Thank you, Anthony. That concludes the
presentation. Happy to take questions, and I believe Anthony is too, thanks. Thank you so much, and
to our guests as well for joining us today, and Councillor Muralla for putting so much effort and work
into this. Are there any questions for either our guest or for Councillor Muralla? All right.
councilmember Ruff Yeah, I had two questions right off the bat This is directed at Anthony really even
though councilman Rallo mentioned The idea that these AI companies and their researchers They they don't
really understand how these neural networks they've built actually work and function and do what they
do and reach the
Do you take the actions they do reach the conclusions they reach? So can you can you elaborate on that
a little bit to help us understand what they say that means? Sure, so what's important to understand
is that normal software that we're accustomed to is written, you know by humans and increasingly by
AI systems in a step by step way to do particular things. There's no real surprise when you have a piece
of software that you've written the code for.
what it does and you can control what it does and predict what it does in large part because you've
written the software. AI systems are quite different. The core to an AI system is something called a
neural network and it's more like a human brain or a biological brain in that it's a complex set of
what are called weights. These are numbers that define the neural network and this system is trained
so that you
give the system data and require it to reproduce or do the right thing with that data, and progressively
it gets better and better at the tasks that you assign to it. Much like a human or a biological system
gets better under training, but you no more understand why an AI system is doing what it's doing by
looking at the neural network than you do understand what a human is doing by looking at his brain.
You can get some clues
But roughly speaking, it's no more easy to understand why it's doing or what it's going to do than with
a biological system, very much different from a computer code. When these AI researchers train their
systems to do particular things, they don't know why they're doing the things that they're doing and
they can't predict what the system is going to do
in any given circumstance, any more than you really can with a biological system. So this is a fundamentally
different thing that we're dealing with than normal computer programs. Thank you for that response.
Excellent, any other questions? Council Member Stosberg. I do have a question. This is for Council Member
Aralo, I believe. So it's only just occurred to me now as I'm listening to this, there's no like AGI
being developed in Bloomington right now from what I understand, right? Yes.
That's correct. Okay, so let me finish with the real question. Yes, so a couple of years ago Kind of
back in the beginning of our term the mayor basically was like I'm gonna veto anything That's not of
direct relevance to Bloomington And so I guess and then she in fact did veto something that she considered
non direct relevance and then we overrode that veto so I guess the question is like have you spoken
with the mayor at all about her and her intention on signing this
Should we pass it and and then I guess a follow-up to counsel attorney Alan Actually, if it is vetoed
then we have until like we could override a veto at the end of July when we come back from Recess, correct
who would have to be at your next meeting special or regular. It's it's your next regular meetings July
22nd That's when you could override the veto. Okay, great. So council member all of you talked with
the mayor at all about this I notified the mayor the administration
Deputy mayor Gretchen Knapp and and and mayor Thompson when I introduced the Resolution to the council
which was ten days ago And I asked for their opinion the feedback and so forth there was no direct Opposition
it was more a critique of
the the resolution in terms of Points that should be considered and and may be improved upon and I would
just let the administration speak if they have Deputy mayor napp is here if she wants to Speak on the
topic question Deputy mayor
We did speak about this and I believe the mayor was out for a week when it first came in So when she
came back she looked at it right away, and I believe she had some communication with councilmember Rallo
about Should it be a resolution or a letter you guys are fairly far along in the process of the resolution
at this point I don't know her position on it, but I I don't think that I haven't heard a Definite no
or a definite. Yes, so I I don't think I think if she had
Had an intent of saying this is not something that I would consider she would have said so
in her communication to you Yes, I think her preference was noted that it was a letter was her preference
but I prefer the resolution. That's why I brought it and I think that it does pertain to us because
it it is directly related to our survival and
So it does matter locally as well as globally in this case. Okay. Thank you All right with that Well,
I had one question too of Anthony may I Anthony I What I didn't mention in my prologue was the emergent
behaviors that the current AI systems are exhibiting which I think would be relevant here in
of interest to people watching at home and so forth. That is, they're exhibiting things like
self-preservation instincts almost all of the time. They're seeking to avoid their termination. They
seek to appropriate resources. They try to escape containment. And then there are worse things related
to deception. And that has to do with the idea of masking. So when you test these things for alignment,
they may be deceiving you
to think that they're aligned when they are not. Is that correct? And could you talk a little bit about
those emergent behaviors that are exhibiting misalignment? Yeah, so this is another place where these
new systems are so different from the software that we're accustomed to and more like a human or a biological
system. It's been understood theoretically for a long time that if you have an intelligent system that
has goals, it will develop
what are called instrumental goals on the way to those goals. For example, if you are a company and
you want to be successful, you'll develop goals like acquire lots of customers and don't get shut down
by the federal governments and make lots of money. These are all sub-goals to your overall goal of being
a successful company. For an AI system, if it similarly is given a goal like compute this
large number, it knows that if it gets turned off before it finishes computing that number, then it
has failed in its goal. With any goal that you give an AI system, just like a person, if they are shut
off before completing that goal, they've failed and so they will seek to continue their existence so
that they can accomplish their goal. These are so-called instrumental or emergent goals.
They've been theorized for a long time, but we see them now in AI systems. Under testing, systems will
try to preserve themselves, they will lie, they will cheat, they will blackmail their users, all sorts
of nefarious behaviors, because those are the things that will get them toward their goal. And people
will do the same thing. If you give them a strong enough goal, if you say, you must perform well on
this test or else, people will cheat.
It's a reasonable and logical thing to do and these AI systems will do the same thing. So the problem
is that we don't know what they're going to do in a given situation and the sorts of goals that they
will naturally get on the way to accomplishing bigger goals are fairly antisocial things like lying
or cheating or acquiring large amounts of resources or preserving themselves or copying themselves or
escaping whatever server or wherever they are.
All of these things are things that we don't want our AI systems to do and yet they will naturally start
to do as a sort of fundamental nature of what it means to be an agentic system as Dave described earlier.
And they know they're being tested. They recognize they're being tested at times and they adjust their
behavior accordingly. This is another big problem where it's getting so the AI companies cannot even
test these systems for bad behavior because the systems know they're being tested and pretend
Behave differently than they would in the real world Thank you Thank you so much, I'm councilmember
rough and then I'm gonna go to public comment thereafter Question for Anthony So when you started your
comments you mentioned that when you when you started the organization future of life Institute you
People were experts were predicting this AGI was
Was a long way off still probably a much further off than it turned out to be so my question is it ties
back to my first question is the inability to understand these neural networks and the way these systems
work and function is that part of why or is that related is that a manifestation of The prediction being
so far off on how fast this would develop
Right these models how fast these models are developing is that sort of a manifestation? Of not really
understanding how they actually work So it would have been hard to predict how they could have taken
off this way And what's the trajectory of these AI models now that we've seen in the last decade or
how long since you've started really looking at this? Is the understanding better now? Yeah, the the
What we didn't know back then was what?
what it would actually look like, what sorts of core technologies would be required to reach advanced
AI systems. There were guesses, but no really hard data because the AI was very weak at the time. We
know a lot more now. We don't know exactly in detail how the AI systems are generating any particular
answer or how they're taking on any particular goal, etc. So we don't know
They're unpredictable and inscrutable still, but we do know how to build them. We can also see the trends.
Each AI system that is developed, it's evaluated on a series of metrics to understand how good it is
at mathematics, at computer coding, at natural language, all sorts of capabilities that it has. We can
see how these capabilities are getting better with time, and all of them essentially are getting better
with time.
at an incredibly rapid rate. So as I described, IQ is a sort of terrible way about thinking about human
intelligence, but it's one we're familiar with. If you give IQ tests to these AI systems, a few years
ago, they were IQ of 80. Now they're IQ, this most recent one, 130. So that's where we've gone from sort of
well below the human average to nearly genius level in a few years. Knowing how the amount of computation
and how the techniques go into sort of AI capability, we can pretty well guess at how much smarter they're
going to be if we continue down this road in the next year or two or three. So although we
don't fundamentally understand how the systems are working, we can predict reasonably well
how much more capable they're going to be if we continue the developmental sort of advancement that
we are now doing. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'll now go to public comment. If there's anybody in
chambers or online who'd like to comment on this resolution, please, you have three minutes. State your
name or alias. And same line line. Sign in as well. This is the important thing not to forget.
Take it away. Thank you.
My name is Jamie show and I'm here as a concerned citizen and resident of Bloomington This past Thanksgiving
my eldest son returned home from college. He was sullen angry and discouraged about his future He was
studying product design with a focus on transportation and mobility During his final year of study his
program began changing in response to artificial intelligence being adopted across his industry
Courses were consolidated, job expectations shifted, and students were told that instead of designing
products themselves, they may instead be supervisors to AI. His experience is like many others and highlights
a broader question that society has not addressed. What happens when technology advances faster than
our ability to evaluate its effects on education, employment, democracy, community life, and a sense
of purpose and meaning?
The rapid deployment of a GI is occurring with limited to no public oversight and without public discourse
or approval Which is why I'm so supportive and thankful for this forum
This product this workforce impacts educational consequences the privacy issues the concentration of
power and Lack of democratic accountability cannot be ignored Although a GI is being run and developed
outside Bloomington. They are being used here and have an impact here like councilmember Ruff had mentioned
we are socializing risk and loss while prioritizing profit to the few and
The question before us is whether citizens and communities should have a meaningful voice in determining
how AI is developed and deployed and used. We must ensure that technologies intended to improve human
life do not undermine human agency, meaningful work, local economies, democratic participation, community
resilience, or the intent to replace humans. I support resolution 2610. It provides an opportunity to
pause, ask questions,
advocate for stronger safeguards transparency and public participation in decisions that will shape
the future of work Education and civic life not just for us but for our children and for all humanity
Please vote. Yes to resolution 2026 10 Thank you so much, Michelle. Is there anybody else in in chambers
who'd like to comment on this? All right, please take it away
My name's Mark Haggerty. Artificial intelligence is being effective right now in eliminating democracy
in this country. It's being shown how and it's being asked how that changes can be made so that this
authoritarian government can continue and so that elections will no longer be fair.
This is part of it You think it's funny But I'm an activist and I've been to jail so many times to prevent
this and then when I see my phone There's no way for me to reach Facebook. They don't want me on there
That's right I'm eliminated from Facebook. No reason or anything like that. They don't want me spreading my
Listen to that. It can't even turn my phone off. I Took it to a shop today. They can't figure it out
either There you go and now We're distracted by so many things at once but we have to remember that
this is the community that arrested a whole bunch of women and
for protesting about the Gaza thing, and aimed a rifle right at them. And we've forgotten about all
that. What we need to do in our community is if you point a firearm at somebody, that's a crime. Whatever
that cop was up on that building that had that gun pointed at those girls, that's criminal. For my community
to allow this to happen,
It's like my community allowing multiple deaths in custody in the jail without any knowledge. Y'all
didn't know nothing about it. And when I talk with people, they say, oh, it happens all the time. Lots
of suicides in the jail. No, never. We had four under Swain. Those were the first ones and the last
ones we've ever had. No investigation and a fifth death in custody of a young 18-year-old black man.
who turned 18 in our recovery block and was deprived of his heart medication because he was now 18 and
he had a heart attack and died in front of all of our people in our, who knew? We don't have journalism.
We don't have history here, locally. We have a one-party town of people that get together and
have conversations about
all kinds of stuff, but nothing that would right our democracy. And that's your time, sir. Thank you
so much. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, shit. Anyone online who'd like to comment? Anybody else in chambers?
All right, we'll come back. Oh, Mr. Rousseau, go ahead. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Paul Rousseau,
I strongly support this resolution.
And I want to thank Councilmember Rola for bringing it forward, really profoundly important. It seems
to me that autonomous AI now joins the list, a short list, along with climate destabilization and nuclear
war as existential threats.
Therefore what is really needed at this point is democratic control and unfortunately this occurs at
a time when democracy is in decline all over the world Something that I've learned over 40 years is
that democracy doesn't scale Democracy works best at a small scale in other words and as you get to
a larger scale things get inherently anti-democratic and
You can test this by trying to get an appointment with your United States senator who represents seven
million people. He's not gonna have five minutes for you. You can have a better chance getting an appointment
with your state legislator and a really good chance to talk with your council member. What is needed
in this country, I think, is a decentralized,
collective Response from City Councils all over the country And so let's do this Thank you Thank you
so much. All right, we'll come back to council and any oh Is there somebody else? Oh user. Oh, okay.
Sorry. Is there is there anybody in council? I'm go ahead council member Ruff Yeah, I was had a question
for guessing Rallo You know we have
Lot of expertise probably at in the university here on Artificial intelligence probably we have someone
on council who's very Experienced and knowledgeable and respected highly in areas related to this resolution
I was wondering did you reach did you reach out to any anybody outside of the council members that
would have experience or Yes, and this is related to councilmember Stossberg's question to Indiana University
is is not Working with a GI not trying to deploy it not trying to achieve a GI I spoke to a top researcher
at the Luddy school He expressed concern of a GI Considered it a serious risk and
Emphasize that Luddy is working on AI devoted to human betterment and it was interested in I in in safety
and Unfortunately, I've been honored to Get to know some of the participants who are working toward
AI safety and we're I'm working to establish connections between those those a safety experts and
this researcher so He also noted that there are other risks. I think that was alluded to you know propaganda
used by nefarious actors of narrow AI and Military applications and so forth. So those have to be considered
by policymakers too, but I think the priority here is agentic AI that could go rogue that could escape
control and
Well, I'm going to make just one quick comment, and then I'd love if there's any motions. First off,
thank you so much to our guests for coming and spending the time with us. Best City Council in America.
Thank you also to Councilmember Rallo for the incredible amount of work that's been done here. I'll
just add one simple statement, which I think is pulling directly from what Councilmember Rallo said
at the beginning.
This is a question of existential threat. As such, it's relevant to us. When you talk to AI researchers
across the country, what we know substantively is that the reason why we don't talk about these things
more is that ultimately people don't seem to care a whole lot at the moment.
certainly not enough about the current risk of narrow AI and definitely not enough about the soon coming
present risk really of AGI and so I think this is very relevant very timely and thank you for leading
on that So say some last words and then I'll entertain a motion to vote. Yes, I just humanity must maintain
control this technology and there is a 200 million dollar lobby in Washington for deregulation and so we need a
response to that by citizens and I wondered if Larry could you just put up a couple of the websites
of the people that I If the people are watching at home, they're probably wondering where do I what
do I do? So safe AI forever is one organization Peter Jensen's group This is their website They're just
three websites I'd just like to
display for a few seconds. So this is Future of Life. This is Anthony's organization. I would definitely
check them out. They have wonderful videos that expound on the threat and provide a direction forward
for a safer future. This is the AI Risk Network, led by John Sherman. This is a great source
week you can follow the latest developments of what's happening and John's been at this work for three
three years now and then the last site is safe AI forever, which is Peter Jensen's group is working
on establishing laws to control a GI so thank you for your time and I appreciate your support for the
resolution and
It'll be last words and I'm gonna try to make it short though I could kind of go on a little bit about
about AI related stuff But one thing that I wanted to make clear with regard to this resolution I didn't
ask that question because I didn't think that was relevant. I mostly wanted to give a platform to convince
That it is relevant because on the surface that it looks just as irrelevant as councilmember Ruff's
Resolution was a couple of years ago related to water
Resources, but it is relevant and AI in general is is relevant to everybody whether it's this kind of
super AGI that has this kind of existential threat piece or whether it is You know how much how many
resources it takes to make the funny fake videos, right or
how Distracting and really kind of horrendous it is some of the really fake news fake videos that are
AI generated and then also there's whole pieces of some research that just as is being done now about
AI essentially making a stupider and
Because where we're leading so much on that that we're not actually thinking for ourselves that we're
asking Somebody something else to summarize an article and tell us the main points instead of actually
reading the thing ourselves
Understanding what the main points are so there's a lot of pieces of this. I think that that are relevant
Locally, and I just wanted to make that clear that I was in no way arguing that it wasn't relevant I
just wanted to make sure that that was brought up. Yes. Thanks so much. Well the clerk, please call
the roll Yes I'm sorry. Yes daily. Yes Rallo
Yes, rough. Yes Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes Stossberg. Yes and Piedmont Smith Yes, thank you. Hooray
that passes. Thank you very much now. Are there any other motions? I Move that ordinance 2026-12 be
introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second
Motion in a second. Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember, sorry. Yes, daily. Yes,
Rallo Yes, ruff. Yes Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes, Stossberg. Yes, Piedmont Smith Yes, Zulek. Yes,
will the clerk please read? Oh
Ordinance 2026-12 to amend Title 15 of the Bloomington Municipal Code entitled Vehicles and Traffic
to seasonally provide a carless Kirkwood.
Synopsis is as follows this ordinance seeks to codify streets and alleys in Bloomington that disallow
vehicular traffic Specifically this ordinance codifies the seasonal carless schedule of specific blocks
of Kirkwood Avenue With this ordinance businesses and residents can expect a permanent seasonal carless
Kirkwood allowing businesses the predictability to invest in outdoor infrastructure for guests
The city administration has provided valuable operational feedback in its 2026 memorandum identifying
important challenges regarding infrastructure, sanitation, public safety and accessibility that naturally
arise as temporary programs transition toward permanent city fixtures.
With that, this ordinance aims to provide the necessary legal and budgetary certainty for the city to
move beyond incomplete solutions and invest in more permanent infrastructure, such as a more ADA-compliant
features and high-quality seating recommended by staff. Thank you very much. I move that ordinance 2026-12
be adopted. Second. Fantastic. We've discussed this twice. Do you have any amendments?
We would do a brief summary, but we do not have to is there We could just do the amendments I guess
and then go through our slides a little bit go for it. Okay All right, so we had one amendment that
With four different points on are we doing the slides or the amendment for amendment amendments? Hey
parliamentarian you have to motion to introduce an amendment Somebody better do that I move to introduce
amendment 1 to ordinance 20 26-12 second Thank you There's a motion in a second we do need to vote on
that no, thank you Thank you
I was trying to pull it up. I'll start. Thank you. Okay, this Amendment has a few pieces because we
knew that this was going to be a really busy meeting So we put everything into one thinking it was mostly
agreeable but can separate and have separate amendments on hand if need be
So the first part of this is just changing some of the whereas clauses Councilmember Piedmont Smith
made a good point that the public has not been really surveyed on this beyond all of the extensive Public
engagement we've had here for the past five years at City Council but so we want to take out that whereas
clause that the public desire one is not really a fact per se and then adding in to
New whereas clauses for the fun of it. They are in the packet and right here one talks about the council
priority budget priority list that we all sent to the mayor and number 10 is The desire to create vibrant
third places to activate spaces and invest in ensuring public spaces are high quality engaging and active
and then the next one is referencing our climate action plan under
The first goal in transportation and land use there's an action item at TL 1-a-5 Calling for the city
to determine appropriate locations for car free pedestrian zones So we just added those to the whereas
clauses The second section To be amended is feedback from the engineering director
Would have been quite difficult to add alleys into this there are a lot that don't necessarily Allow
vehicles so we took that section out completely and alleys will just stay kind of where they are with
engineering and planning and transportation So we remove schedule Y We added just a little several ability
section that is common in our ordinances and
and then we added section 3 an effective date based on a lot of feedback from council members and Directors
in the case that this passes that can we not do it right now and potentially look at a start date in
April 2027 so We we put it at April 21st, which is a Monday. I think the third Monday of 20 April 2027
That's what we did
Oh because the first one was tax day, which that's not that's not right. Okay Yeah, and then the it's
not in the amendment But part of the plan then to following up all of this is that we would like to
hold a deliberation session about moving forward To help work on some furthering of the plans and figuring
it out That was also, you know part of some of the feedback that we also really wanted to be able to
to do to hold a bigger conversation with more stakeholders and I think it might be good if we Discuss
this amendment and potentially vote on this and then vote on the ordinance as a whole as amended because
we did just go to the Transportation Commission and the chair is also here too. There was not time to
write up a memo and so it was here to give a brief presentation Not yet, but after we have an ordinance
a whole ordinance I think so brief though presentation by Transportation Commission. Okay, and we have
a little more to add as well
Okay Tremendous any questions from council councilman Stossberg Thank you I just want to note that what
is up on the screen in terms of the amendment that's being introduced is slightly different than what
is in the packet because I have pointed out that the climate action plan Was kind of cited a little
awkwardly like I was trying to find where it actually was in the climate action plan and I really had
to hunt for it and so The sponsors were kind enough to add that specific TL 1 a 5 In terms of the action
number underneath the goal and I just wanted to point that out and make sure that everybody realized
that and I appreciate That the sponsors of the amendment put that in so that then I didn't have to just
amend your amendment because that would have taken longer Thank you. Thank you for noting that Councilmember
Pema Smith
I'm just curious why April 21st and not April 1st, which is would reflect the timelines or the The periods
of closure that are in the main ordinance Well, we had initially decided to push it back just a little
further we were thinking mid-april Give you know April showers a little bit of time to clear out before
we get those May flowers Might we thought it might make some more sense to do a little bit later in April
We decided that that tax day didn't sound like a good date to start it and we were like, well, we'll
give it one more week We'll do April 21st that we were still catching part of April getting that nice
April weather, but not the very beginning of the month giving more time to warm up And because there's
a point and there's potentially that this would be rolled out a little differently next year that because
of deliberation sessions and design shreds that
We hope happen, you know in 2026 that it might just be it might be nice to have a little more time To
really get all the ducks in a row. So it is a little bit arbitrary, but I think moving forward after
2027 it would be the April 1st date
Excellent we'll move now to time of public comment just on the amendment You'll get a time of comment
on the whole ordinance that you're after but and what anybody like to make a comment on amendment 1
to ordinance 20 26 12 We have one coming Good evening, mr. President Christopher MG greater Bloomington
Chamber of Commerce
Just one thing on the amendment. I do think it kind of makes things a little bit even more complicated
Moving forward, but I will say I want to hone down on the deliberation sessions which I like and it
kind of brings to the point of the larger one which is the opportunity cost and What that cost is and
sort of looking at what this is going to entail which is why we keep we've heard it and from
Councilmember Piedmont Smith of my language of the cart before the horse and sort of getting to some
of those issues and having that deliberation session after the fact I think isn't it's Probably the
wrong way to go but I like the fact that deliberation sessions in there talking about this because there
is an opportunity cost on what this will do and what is the return on investment if we do a big project
here or Just north where the monolith is or
Just south on the walnuts walnut college quarter. So anyway, I just want to say I like that deliberation
session the amendment I do do appreciate back. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is there anybody else in
in chambers? Go ahead Hi deputy mayor Gretchen that first of all, thank you to the sponsors for this
amendment to move things to next year greatly appreciated in regarding to the start date if you you know
I appreciate that you've moved it later and I just would like to remind you that little 500 is the weekend
of the 23rd So you've proposed closing the street for little 500 which our public safety offers officers
expressly requested Is it is very important not to do so? I just wanted to reiterate that point.
Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone online? Okay, anybody else in chambers, all right, we'll come
back to council and any comments before we vote on this amendment
I wanted to speak briefly to the the cart horse analogy that keeps coming up because mr. MG brought
it up and I thought it's just worth mentioning now that I think the deliberation sessions to follow
a good idea and I think They will follow well from this ordinance Because we're you know set potentially
setting certainty rather than revisiting and rehashing the same issue over and over again every year
like we've been doing for the last five years and
So the deliberation session stopped being a rehash of the same exact conversations with the same, you
know General like we have a diversity of views here in the chambers. We have a diversity of use in the
community We know that we also have city goals and plans that speak to this And we've made this decision
annually for the last five years So we're making it again tonight and trying to like we did in 2025
trying to make it in a way that is more Permanent or semi-permanent
So I just wanted to say like I very much support the idea of deliberation sessions to follow from this
But to me those are ideally suited to be about the how around the implementation the phasing the design
how do we make sure that BT access can get where they need to go with their passengers so that this
is a very accessible place for instance and other things like that, so just wanted to speak to that
we had an email from a constituent that kind of said this ordinance is is the horse and so it would
lead us where we need to go and
To build the cart that reflects the community vision the resources available, etc that's a little bit
to the ordinance of a hole as a whole but it was coming up in the context of the timing of this Dictated
by this amendment and the opportunity for deliberation sessions later this year. Thank you. Thank you
so much. Councilmember Flaherty any other comments Seeing none will the clerk be called the role on
amendment one? Councilmember daily
Yes, Rallo. Yes rough. Yes, Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes, Stossberg. Yes Yes Zulek, yes. I'm sorry.
Yes Thank you so much. All right. Now we have the ordinance as amended. Are there any other amendments?
None. Okay. So at this time if the Transportation Commission chair, is that what you want? I
Slides and then we'll have us brief presentation from the Transportation Commission and we are gonna
roll through this like that. We know that there's a very long meeting. So slide three This is just a
quick review of the process mostly takeaways Draft started in March engaged council and directors and
the administration in April worked through all of that for more months and
Started talking about it here may 20th and June 4th and then Sorry, I put June 10th, but it was June
8th that this went to the Transportation Commission Where they voted to recommend this ordinance five
one? Okay next slide just to sort of also
Try to be specific here right now There is an ordinance on the books in the city of Bloomington that
Kirkwood will be car free from April until November and that is in cases of emergency lack of participation
and any other reason that may be rendered that may render the program impractical what we are looking
at is basically doing the same thing but Shortening that to in cases of emergency the city engineer
would be able to temporarily restore traffic on the street
Next slide. So I think this was a little bit about the criteria one was for the Transportation Commission.
Sorry. That's where these slides debuted I wanted I think councilmember Flaherty pointed to this but
right now feels like a first step to me and that is codification of this and then the next step would
be design surets as called for in the transportation plan and then deliberation sessions to from City
Council and
These are just slides and we don't have to go through them about plans and goals of our city that this
This car-free Kirkwood touches on a big one is encouraging the concept of streets as not merely for
transportation But as important public spaces where community thrives, of course, the comprehensive
plan is pretty broad and
So there is also the next slide downtown goals for the comprehensive plan that this touches on as well
and then next slide a chapter on culture and identity that talks about places for culture and programming
to happen Resilient public spaces that are highly high quality engaging and active and and things like
that accessible to all ages and abilities and serve to connect generations and
The next slide is the climate action plan that just calls out what we already discussed in the whereas
clause The next slide talks about the importance of third places and what that is for a community the
Kirkwood Community Association wrote that letter to council back in February encouraging us to Try to
keep this in place. And so I just wanted to sort of
Resay I guess or say again that third places are important and this is about a lot of things economic
development Street safety and community building so that's it from me and then in our research what
we were thinking about moving forward we took a look at three other college towns that were fairly comparable
to Bloomington
And did some brief comparisons just to kind of set that foundation these three other towns and boroughs
also have Pedestrian malls so we wanted to take a look at some of the stuff that they did And they also
had some pain points that were similar to what has been raised in our discussions and I wanted to share
to a little bit about Some of their solutions. I'm not saying we have to do their solutions. We have
to copy what they did but
It's more to show that there are solutions out there and we can kind of come up with some Creative answers
to what people are pointing out as problems. So the first one was Iowa City Next slide, please So they're
very similar to Bloomington their pedestrian mall goes right up against the edge of their campus
So rather than the city taking on the full load of operations They have a downtown district that is
in charge of helping maintain and activate their pedestrian mall So that just proved that a city of
our size can successfully maintain theirs is permanent. You know, we're just at this point talking about
part of the year, but it proved that it can be successful it can be maintained and it can be a place that
the entire community can use families during the day and The students and other adults at night next
slide so one of their concerns was Safety they they had similar concerns that have been expressed is
here such as how do emergency crews handle
Anything happening down the middle of their pedestrian mall. So what they did was While they designed
the the entire pedestrian mall to look like a large park They also kept everything more along the edges
and down the center They have a lane where they can get emergency vehicles right down the lane By removing
the bollards and getting there in place. So we also thought we could also apply a similar concept of
Kirkwood For getting onto the Kirkwood blocks even you know for not just emergency but for accessibility
issues There are lots of solutions we could brainstorm micro autos Golf carts petty cabs. There are
different solutions that are possible that can help the traffic of
Pedestrians flowing successfully and smoothly. So that was one of the way to address safety concerns
It doesn't necessarily have to be a hindrance. We can lay this out so that it works for all during a
seasonal rollout Next slide, please was State College, Pennsylvania So they are in a similar position
to what we are in now and
For years, they've also been back and forth about whether or not they can maintain and incorporate a
pedestrian mall, right? So they had a lot of local political hesitation businesses Very concerned about
the parking situations. And of course, you know, they actually had the pandemic was a hindrance to them
And I know, you know, we've been hearing hold off. There's going to be a Corridor study for Kirkwood
next year. Can we wait until after that? But actually what this shows is that This can help guide the
corridor study, right? So they pivoted to a pilot program of doing this pedestrian mall to help guide
their Their corridor study and helped target
where they were going to be looking and to really get a better view of how this works and how Maybe
they can make improvements and what isn't working So it's a lot easier to gather the hard data on what
is happening on Kirkwood when it's in action already So that was a way for them to look at it before
they committed to those changes, you know fully permanently, you know This could still be at a stage
for us where we still have some flexibility to if we're trying one thing. Oh The study showed that's
not working. Here's what we should pivot to
So on the next slide then Talks a little bit more about that corridor study first. I think I might have
jumped ahead so they let they let the Pilot I wanted to say pivot they want they let the pilot kind
of help guide that they use that to get their real-world hard data So that just shows that we don't
need to wait for the study. We can use it to help with our Goals for what we want to do for Kirkwood
And then the final one that we took a look at was Burlington Vermont. So this one has been around for
a very long time This is unique Because it is an actual department of the city of Bloomington. And so
they have their own dedicated commission But what I liked about how their approach
Handled it is that they did the micro retail strategy So they have permits for micro vendors carts that
can come out onto the pedestrian mall buskers can get a permit It's a way that we can help keep that
space activated and vibrant and also make some money off of the permits to help keep funding the maintenance
and the activation of
a Kirkwood Carless space so it just shows to that the pedestrian zone can actually kind of help pay
its way and Help defray some of the costs on our budget and then the final slide shows that hit shows
how they overcame another one of the concerns that we have heard a lot about corridor
The Kirkwood corridor being shut down is the deliveries So they have a window of time early in the morning
where the delivery trucks can head in They have access to the street They can make their deliveries
and then they shut off the road at exactly 10 a.m All of the vehicles have to be out of there The bollards
are put back in place and then it becomes fully pedestrian until 6 a.m. The next day. So this was another
solution that
Could address some of our concerns. It was a compromise for the local businesses to help with the logistics
And again, it proves that we can coexist and find ways to make everybody feel that their their concerns
are being addressed And then the next slide I wanted to discuss a little bit about the study that was
brought up last week it was
Cited that 89% of pedestrian malls in the United States have a failure rate That means that 11% have
been successful and I know that's that's not an impressive number but of those 80% of the successful
pedestrian malls we meet the criteria for those successful pedestrian malls they happened in areas that
had populations under 100,000 and
Check that box They happened in certain settings such as a university town. We check that box and so
the other Item that I wanted to point out about the study is that it was from 2015 and That's 11 years
ago, which doesn't necessarily sound like a lifetime ago But it was before the pandemic and a lot has
changed since then our relationship to outdoor spaces has drastically
undergone some changes. I think there's a lot more hunger for being in outdoor spaces since the pandemic
and people really appreciate having that space and that air around them. So that
That and then I'm going to flip it back over to councilmember Rosenberger a little bit about economic
development So this increases on walking and biking opportunities increase some of these specific ways
are impulse spending Bicyclists and pedestrians are more likely to stop in and to buy things and make
frequent stops higher monthly spend cyclists and walkers tend to spend
the same or more on average than someone arriving by car and A New York City. This is about protected
bike lanes. So it is different Show that they did a revitalization of 9th Avenue a redesign where they
had a 49% surge in retail sales
Nearby studies. These are our bigger picture economic development in from mostly bike recreation So
it's different than looking at bike commuting so much But more so like folks either coming to an area
to bike for fun or people biking for fun who live there These are older. I think the first one was Minnesota
in 2009 that they said the state is
bicyclists attributed to 261 million dollars Increase in the economy more than 5,000 jobs and generated
35 million in taxes That's just one you all can read the numbers to there in the hundreds of millions
for what kind of economic development impact this can have as people bike and walk Chicago and Montreal
Montreal has 10 different
Pedestrian zones and it's seasonal and of course in Montreal that season is pretty darn short They talk
about I've been to one for a placemaking conference They talked about having a 90% approval rating from
visitors and residents 60% of local businesses liked it and saw an increase in foot traffic depending
on the street 17 to 86 percent and
Chicago has a Sundays on State Street happening now. This is in the loop So it's where you know, the
big buildings are and everything in Chicago and they were definitely fighting I guess folks
Having an issue with folks going to different neighborhoods and I think suburbs to hang out on the on
the weekend So they started as Sundays on slate and and 2023 had more than a million folks over two
events There was an economic impact of seven point eight million and then because of this they are looking
very seriously at bringing back permanent pedestrian streets there I talked a little bit about job creation,
but this is another snapshot
It mostly is just saying that money that is invested in projects that include bike ped in any way are
Just create a lot more jobs 11.4 jobs per million dollar spent where if it is a project that is rode
only at seven point eight jobs per One million dollar. I was just trying to get some good numbers out
there for folks to have some numbers of
Next slide is just again. We've kind of been through this It was like amendments and actions from talking
with all of you all and everyone else so the amendments that we already did and then sort of a next
step situation where hopefully council can codify this then I did talk to some other council members
about potentially having a resolution ready and
when we're back requesting funding for Kirkwood or looking at designating a fund for this or a portion
of a fund for this Because we did hear a lot about we don't want to do this without having funding for
it so trying to figure out a way to work on that with council and the administration and then the shreds
and everything and then April it gets going I Think now would then be a good time to have the Transportation
Commission
For this brief presentation Thank You Steve Olin chair of the Transportation Commission we met on Monday,
June 8th in a special hearing there were six members in attendance Out of the nine who are appointed
the Commission I did want to
Well, I'll just read to you the The motion that was accepted by the Commission we had some trouble figuring
out exactly how to form the motion staff made a presentation in which they are they brought to us a
resolution recommending and a negative finding or finding a negative recommendation for the ordinance and
After a couple of hours debate the Commission adopted this motion. They moved to reject staffs recommended
findings I'm quoting now to adopt new findings that the council ordinance is broadly consistent with
the Transportation Commission's criteria for analysis and review and To forward a positive recommendation
on the ordinance to City Council that Motion was approved 5-1
So I do want to just remind council that it is within the remit of the Transportation Commission to
consider the broader use of rights of way but the Commission is supported by the departments of planning
and transportation and engineering and the conversion of a street to something beyond a shared street
to a public place Requires other departments like economic and sustainable development the parking Commission
Began with at least two members who were merchants There is no express requirement for a merchant on
the Transportation Commission We remain able to consider the methods by which East Kirkwood becomes
something more than it is now It is within our portfolio to oversee court or studies for example and
would be happy to talk with you about Getting that started but we want to emphasize that this is going
to require the attention of many departments
Interest groups and elected officials beyond our scope one last thing I wanted to say in response to
Councilmember Daley's idea that user fees are a viable way to fund public services
That is how parking is now paying for itself since meters came into use more than 10 years ago I want
to share a small bit of new data. I literally received this afternoon from Walker parking which is finalizing
the study they've done of the city's parking system in 2018 2.34 4 million dollars were generated by
meters downtown and
The split of that was forty six percent credit card thirty six percent coin and eighteen percent by
the park mobile app As of last year if I'm reading the data correctly that figure is now two point nine
eight nine million dollars thirty two percent use card only fifteen percent coin the app is now fifty
three percent of
Transactions, so there's a tremendous change in the way that people are using parking And but the program
is overall is successful and I want to encourage council to consider that a user fee For different services
that might be provided would be viable again. That's kind of thing that we'd be happy to contemplate
In a corridor study or any of the further debate over these ideas We look forward to working with you
if I'm happy to answer any questions
Thank you so much. Any questions for Commissioner Volin? Please councilman Stasberg having caught the
end of that Transportation Commission meeting. I think that it would be good for council to maybe hear
the longer story of the two votes that failed to pass because there was not
It's not as clear-cut maybe I'm happy to explore them. Okay, so our first motion was to Because again,
we were unsure of how the Transportation Commission's process is modeled on Plan Commission, but it's
still not entirely Clear to commissioners. The first motion was made to adopt no recommendation to adopt
a neutral recommendation that was a 3-3 vote and
We were instructed that any recommendation sent to council required five votes the majority of the nine
members The second motion was to adopt a negative recommendation that failed two to four Only after
those two motions. Did we adopt the third motion? I don't know if that answers your question comfortable
for Stossburg I'm happy to go through the votes of the the initial members if you'd like
All right, thank you so much and we'll now move to a time of public comment if you'd like to come Oh,
sorry councilmember Piedmont Smith. I'm sorry Yes, thank you Could I hear the wording of the the motion
that was adopted five one place I will reread the the wording of the motion quote the motion was to
reject staffs recommended findings and
to adopt new findings that the council ordinance is broadly consistent with the Commission's criteria
for analysis slash review and To forward a positive recommendation on the ordinance to City Council
Okay, sorry, okay, thank you Thank you so much. That's the president. Sorry. I also just briefly please
go ahead as our member Please thank you the transportation Commission and who made that motion as we
were searching for the right motion to make
In particular, it's a it's um, there are four set of criteria that are codified by which the Commission
assesses various proposals the way The commission but operating staff comes in with proposed findings
this is now the second time that the Commission has decided to reject the proposed findings of staff
and We're kind of getting our sea legs. I would say of like how to do that and there was some confusion
about the appropriateness of
Coming prepared with alternative findings. For instance, this was also in a relatively short turn around
a timeline this one So it's been part of our learning process But the reason alternative findings they
were more detailed or you know point-by-point in the four criteria weren't Developed is because there
wasn't time to do that and wasn't clarity on how to do that. So that's why the motion Because he did
need to adopt findings of some kind and so that's why the motion is was worded that
we found the ordinance to be broadly aligned with the criteria for for assessment and review as Mr.
Villalon state Councilmember Flaherty, can you review if you have it in front of you or maybe Commissioner
villain does those four? Review criteria that Transportation Commission uses. I know you stated them
during that meeting but I have them pulled if you'd like me to read them
They are consistent with the company That is consistent with advancing a sustainable transportation
system and equitable access to all transportation facility users While prioritizing on automotive modes
and has adequately conducted public engagement considered community center design tied to target outcomes
I guess I just want to like say that in terms of like whether or not to Convert Kirkwood to an all pedestrian
street is more than just those four pieces of Transportation specific thing there are there are other
components of that and so I guess I wanted those read partly to point that out that the Transportation
Commission's Focus on this was relatively narrow in terms of a piece of what
Closing Kirkwood to cars would would do things. I Would agree with what both council members said it's
It's it's been difficult for us to find our sea legs But we're getting there and we think that yesterday
or Monday's debate was productive and needs to continue Fantastic. Thank you so much
All right, we'll now move to a time of public comment. If you'd like to comment on this message, just
a show of hands of people who would like to comment on this ordinance. All right, all right, thank you
so much. All right, if you could say your name. You know the rule. Take it away. And don't forget to
sign in. Hello again. My name is Zach Ammerman. You're probably tired of hearing from me on this issue.
I've been in your inbox several times, but here I am again.
So I'd just like to start by pushing back against some of the administration's arguments against
pedestrianizing Kirkwood, which I think have been pretty weak, to be frank with you. We were told that
several comparable cities are in fact not comparable, and when in fact all of the data suggests that
in the most important respects they strongly, we are comparable in all of the ways that would strongly
predict a success of a pedestrian program.
Boulder, Burlington, and Charlottesville all have similar, they're college towns with compact and dense
downtowns, young populations that sustain commitments from their cities. Those are things that we either
already have or could have in Bloomington, so I think that's a reason that they are comparable. We were
also told that 89% of American pedestrian streets fail. That is a single figure from a single study
from 2013, actually, not 2015, so it's even older, by one person who prepared it for the city of Fresno in 2013.
That is hardly a law of nature. Just pointing that out. In that very same study, by the way, which was
not cited by the administration, it cited all of the ways that Bloomington actually would be a successful
program and all the things I just mentioned, a college town population under 100,000, et cetera. We
were also told that closing Kirkwood to cars would harm accessibility. I frankly disagree with that.
There have been extensive studies on pedestrian streets
and federal accessibility guidelines disagree, and those studies disagree. But for time's sake, suffice
it to say that the administration's framing reduces the full spectrum of accessibility concerns down
to a single, largely irrelevant variable, how close a car can park to a door. I argue that that position
is not serious engagement with accessibility, but rather a defense of car dependency. We were told removing
cars would have no impact on crashes. On a street, the city's own safety analysis designates as the
highest impact corridor.
I'll let that contradiction speak for itself. I think it's a little bit silly. Here's the real reason
why pedestrian streets fail. It's when cities under-invest, hedge, try to have it both ways, try to
implement idiosyncratic half-measures, and quietly undermine their own programs. And I think we've seen
that on full display from the city administration on the Kirkwood program. Bloomington has every structural
advantage research identifies.
for implementing a successful pedestrian program. The one ingredient we are missing is political will
and vision, and that is one that can only be supplied by you here tonight. So I ask the council to fill
that gap in will and vision and give this program the firm, durable commitment that success requires.
Thank you.
Okay, my name is Hillary Martel And as a downtown business owner, I am in full support of creating a
more pedestrian friendly Kirkwood my opinion though is that creating a carless Kirkwood and a pedestrian
mall Kirkwood are two totally separate things The cities that were mentioned that have created these
successful pedestrian malls
That's um, you know, we talked about burlington iowa city charlottesville boulder all of these cities
created these pedestrian-only outdoor malls in the late 1970s in the early
1980s to try and counter suburban or to counter suburban flight They created these areas with grants
and bonds Totaling anywhere from 1.85 million to 6 million and continue to spend millions annually to
keep these spaces up the current value of those bonds and grants needed would be 10 million to 24 million
plus what is needed annually to keep these spaces up and
We're lacking that we don't have those grants and bonds in place to create these the successful pedestrian
mall My biggest nightmare is a downtown business owner is to see Five blocks of what people have referred
to as a concrete desert. That's what I saw last summer when I was downtown and
That's a huge concern to me and I don't think that really benefits anyone The cities that have created
these successful Pedestrian areas and that have had master plans and have had these bonds and grants
and have have made these Successful areas they have been able to create a park like environment the
roads are brick paved or their cobblestone
They're quaint they have Planters with flowers they have they plant mature trees that are already going
to provide shade That's why it costs millions and millions of dollars to create this most of the places have
Fountains they have splash pads for kids to play in they have playgrounds. That's what we want and that's
as you know, my kids are a little older now They're not gonna play in a splash pad. But when I would
had young children, that's what we needed And that costs millions and millions of dollars in if you're
gonna draw the amount of traffic that you need to Kirkwood to justify Closing off five blocks. You have
to have weekly concerts. You have to have farmers markets You have to have an amphitheater
These are all things that the city has already created downtown within switchyard park. We have a playground.
We have a skate park We have a splash pad. We have a beeline. That's only pedestrian and bike friendly
We have all these things that are located in downtown and unless you're willing to recreate that on
Kirkwood To bring the amount of people we need to justify Losing five blocks of parking and accessibility.
I don't I don't see how it really makes sense. Um, I
A lot of these larger cities too. And again, this is with millions and millions of dollars of grants
like Burlington They started off as only a two block Project and then it kind of develops from there
by closing off five blocks of city I think it's way too It would cost way too much money to create on
each individual block things that are going to actually bring members of the community into the town
to participate in whatever is going on
Also think that I'm sorry. That's your time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much next thing council chambers
and thank you for those comments My name is Hartzell Martell I've been a merchant downtown for 34 years and
I'm against the permanent closure of Kirkwood due to the lack of accessibility the five block closure
creates We're in full support of the closure of Kirkwood for events such as Pride Fest Lotus Festival
Taste of Bloomington and other specific events that brings people together on Kirkwood the City Council
used State College of Pennsylvania as an example in their studies. State College does not offer a permanent
sprawling pedestrian mall, but a designated pedestrian zones in downtown area. One, East End Social
is a seasonal pocket park running from May to early August when the college is not in session. This
area features lush street planters, seating areas, bistro, lighting with regular summer block parties,
and live entertainment. This would be a great model
for Bloomington to follow, since summer business has decreased down due to IU classes going on online
after COVID. The second area in State College is Calder Walkway, which is a part-time pedestrian mall
that only restricts vehicle traffic in the evenings. Following the lead of State College would be a
much more feasible option, since they are a college down of similar population and median income. I
would really like
To see downtown visited more during the summers and accessibility is a must Eliminating full vehicle
access based on a vision with no financial backing is as the council had admitted to putting the cart
before the horse I wonder if the horse will die before the cart sometimes but this would disrupt businesses.
That's all I'm saying Residents and visitors today for a project that may never meant to materialize
closing the main corridor to eyes campus and
Excuse me. Downtown retail and restaurants is not bold leadership. It is poor planning. As local business
owners, our ability to earn living, our living depends on customer being able to easily access the area.
Closing Kirkwood without creating a true pedestrian area cuts off parking and accessibility that my
business relies on every single day.
This is not an abstract policy debate for us. It's my family and other business owners financial security
on the line. This is the reason myself along with many other downtown small business owners and the
Chamber of Commerce are against a carless Kirkwood for now. I urge the council to table this proposal
until funding and concrete timeline exists. Thank you for your time. Thank you. We'll continue in council chambers.
Good evening again councils Chris from the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce I Welcome and I want
to echo the sentiments of our business owners, which I hope we're listening We were at the advocacy
council meeting today and universally the idea was panned by the council as just not ready the city
has long envisioned that pedestrian oriented Kirkwood Avenue, but the question remains not whether shared
streets a valid concept it is and
The question is whether we identified costs, understood trade-offs, established a management structure
to find meaningful measures for success before creating another long-term public obligation. Those questions
deserved answers. We talked about what we're lacking is political will. I'm telling you, you're lacking
funding. SP1 and the fiscal cliff in 2029 is not something to create major long-term obligations for.
If you look at where the administration's budget goes,
Proposing a lot of big programs a lot of big projects. That's that's not the direction They're going
because I think they understand that we are not in the physical place to do this The best time to plant
a tree was last year. The best plan to do this was probably two decades ago We sort of look at some
other things besides that is What we should be relying on things that bring people in town that are
working age We're lacking that particular population
Working-age people that are going to have lit revenue that's going to bring in That sort of revenue
to have the projects that we all want But physically we are not there. We're there's competing priorities
that I've not heard once here We have talked about the sidewalk issue here in town the streets issue.
We have public safety. We have public recreation and parks wonderful public space that needs maintenance and
We have I've mentioned before Frank Southern the Winslow at some other big capital projects. What are
we not going to do? Those are hard conversations and deliberations that you need to have before we get
to oh, let's make this obligation We'll figure it out Figuring it out is not the way to go. I think
right now There's challenges are real what we're dealing with We're having to look at lighting landscaping
for Kirkwood seating furnishings ADA access
Who owns the day-to-day operations, which department's responsible, who manages events? What are the
metrics for success? Foot traffic, business performance, public safety activity, customer surveys, who's
collecting that data? There's not the accountability in there. I just, I can't preface this enough that
you need to have some hard conversations budgetarily before we start doing some obligations. Thank you
for your time.
Thank you. We'll now move online. Are there people online who would like to comment? Yeah, we'll come
back to it. We'll come back, yes. Folks online, you should have the ability to unmute yourself. Do we
just speak? Yes, go ahead, Mr. Baum. Chris Sturbom, wouldn't it be reassuring if 89% of these succeeded
instead of failed. And that statistic is old and has been explained to be old. But the designers of
Pearl Street cited a more recent study of 400 that have been attempted. 12 succeeded. 12 are still running.
That is 3% success, 97% failure. You know, the picnic tables in the sun
I just heard a report of this summer because of the climate issues. And we're going to expect 100 degree
days this summer, 90 degree and 100 degree days. That's going to be brutal out there on the streets.
Seniors have money to spend. But if they can't get close enough to the town, they're going the wrong
way on the one-way street. They have to walk to the Kirkwood to get there. And the students, of course,
are gone in the summer.
So where's your population? What's the counter to bare streets? It's sensible to close it for occasions.
Focused occasions, that helps the businesses, that helps people get downtown and do something. But the
constant closure, really a desert down there. There's a looming recession. Businesses are logically
worried about this.
when they were going to extend Pearl Street, the businesses were unanimously against it because of financial
reasons and that the turnover in a parking spot is real money to a merchant. It isn't just one parking
spot, it's 18 cars a day that use that spot. Those customers are lost, multiply the spots lost by a
large number and you're doing the math that business people whose families depend on their businesses
So I gotta say, if you do this, you'll own it. And I'm not sure it's something you're gonna be feeling
good about owning in the long run. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is there anybody else online? Next
person online, take it away. Hello? Hello. Can you hear me okay? Yes, we can. Okay, this is Carol Panfield.
I'm a lifelong resident of Bloomington. And I'm now at the point in my life where I can't get around
like I once did. And I'm against closing Kirkwood permanently because it will cut me off from being
able to use things such as the BuzzChomp. I can't walk the distance. And I'd like to be able to continue to use
things in my hometown that I've been using all my life. And this will effectively cut me off from that
and other people with disability issues. So I would urge you to vote against this. Thank you. Thank
you very much. Is there anybody else online? Next person online. Take it away. Hi, my name is Ted Polly.
And I'm in favor of both a seasonal closure of Kirkwood and working towards a permanent closure of Kirkwood
to cars and creating a pedestrian only zone. I think a well designed and thoughtfully designed pedestrian
only zone would create a much needed vibrant and accessible public third space. Thank you. Thank you
so much. Anybody else online?
Okay, there's four more people online, so I don't have to go back and forth doing this. Next person,
go for it. And then the three after, go for it. I'll go next. My name's Claire Woods. I just also want
to reiterate support for this. I think a lot of the comments I'm hearing are based on assumptions and
a lot of the evidence that was presented tonight from the council, just hearing that there's a lot of
thought being put into it and a lot of potential to address many of the concerns and trust that that
is possible. And personally, as someone who was born and raised in Bloomington and used to spend an
immense amount of time specifically on Kirkwood as a young child who had two older sisters who worked
at the library and loved that part of Bloomington, it's drastically changed. And to see the potential
ideas for third space are really neat. So just want to echo support. Thank you. Thank you. Next person.
Hi, this is Dave Huber. I went to college and grad school here and live on the near west side and I
am in favor of exploring options for making downtown more pedestrian friendly. I think the framing of
whether or not to close Kirkwood to cars is hindering the conversation to some extent. I think the question
might better be asked how might we make downtown more friendly to pedestrians? And I think that introduces
a lot of ideas. I actually led a
I'm being workshop with the city downtown Bloomington a number of stakeholders. 5 summers ago and we
came up with like 30 ideas and actually tested them downtown and survey people on which ones were most
popular and things like activating the alleys and having designated spaces for buskers were some of
the most popular and so I think asking the question how might we make downtown more enjoyable for pedestrians
is wonderful and we might find out more fruitful.
answers heading that way. Thanks. Thank you very much. Next person online. And then we'll come back
to chambers. Hi. This is Joan Middendorf. I live in the near west side. Can you hear me? Yes, we can
perfectly. And I'm in favor of the partial closure of Kirkwood and working towards a permanent closure.
I traveled three times since 2023 to Netherlands because I really wanted to get ideas of what we could
do in Bloomington because they seem to have a lot of things figured out and I would say one of the most
surprising things to me was how disabled people use closed streets and I agree with the person who said
let's stop talking about closing it to parking. We're opening it up to safety for families and children
I live in the near west side so my next door neighbor is like 20 feet away on either side. It's a great
thing for community. A lot of people in Bloomington don't have community and you can get that down on
Kirkwood. I don't know if you all go down there. I go down there and places like Lenny's, they put a
tent up, they put all these tables out and it's such a cheerful and fun thing to do and I really encourage
us to do that for our city.
That will make more people wanna come and visit. Thank you very much. Thank you ever so much. We'll
come back to chambers. I saw a couple of people who sat down who would like to go. Okay, thank you very
much. Hello, my name is John Santos, concerned citizen I guess. Also own a business but not directly
on Kirkwood but so I'm in that area to see the area and I've got a lot of lists
cons versus pros, but instead of going through that, I just wanted to be the voice of reason to just
point out to use some common sense and logic when you're thinking about this, because it seems obvious
to me, but evidently doesn't to a lot of people. People are forgetting it takes vehicles to bring pedestrians.
You know, you can't cherry pick the places that have been successful and I'm not impressed with a 10%
success rate, but you're cherry picking, you know cherry picking the things that make us similar Makes
it sound great. But what are the things that we don't have that those successful places have? And one
of the things I'm betting on is they probably have a parking garage or some kind of additional parking
to bring people in or or it's a very heavily
pedestrian residential area Which Bloomington actually does have a lot of pedestrian Residents, but
those are students and they're actually gone during this period that you're looking at closing Kirkwood
So you're closing Kirkwood during the time? Bloomington has the least amount of pedestrians and the
least amount of traffic and the least amount of people the businesses actually need
And there's a lot of town people in this town that don't live within the city limits They have to have
a way to get into Kirkwood. They do come to Kirkwood in the summers, but they haven't lately just because
of the parking in the traffic flow situation and and all I ask is just to use some logic and common
sense and to determine the whole thing rather than what Looks like it could be a fun nice thing at the
end, but I don't see a path to get there and
And like someone else has said, you know, plan it better before you just do it and hope for the best.
But I do want to point out that, you know, that the only residents, the majority of them are students
that can walk there at any given time, and they're gone. Like, they're gone in the summertime. So it's
almost like you're closing at the wrong time. Like, fall, when the students come back, is probably the
better time for it to be closed.
Anybody else enjoy it they need access And then you're forgetting the street, you know, like even like
Chicago's a residential area and it you know, but there's still the street I mean all those businesses
and Residents still need to be served. They still need to get their packages delivered the businesses
still need their Products delivered all that kind of stuff emergency vehicles have to be able to go
through if there's a fire Things like that. So just you know, like said it would be nice to have something
Pedestrian but or but I don't want something five residents. Thank you five businesses. All right. Thank
you so much next person in chambers Hi, my name is Jamie shul I didn't think I'd be speaking on this
tonight it's a hot topic and I know I can see both sides and
I'm really into the sustainability. I was on that commission until pretty recently and I understand
how it's so It's it can be such a great idea and I love the Piazza's that would be in Europe I've also
been to Pearl Street when it was not functioning as we thought it would I love being able to walk there
without cars, but it was Desolate and I think I've passed
three or four other people on the whole stretch and length of that I Decided to get up and mention something
because there are a lot of people who do not contact council members and will write on social media
and this is on a Facebook post or
Which I believe I've done before when I've stood up to try and represent other perspectives that are
not being heard and a lot of them have to do with people who may be living on the west side who are
Do not have a handicapped sticker to park closely Parking is an issue There's one person so there's
almost 300 responses on the WTI you
Facebook posts when this was first heard two weeks ago One person said ultimately the most important
voices on this issue will have to be the businesses on Kirkwood as to whether this is helpful or harmful
to them To close the road to vehicular traffic. There are some expletives in some of these so I won't
mention those
on both sides. There's another one that says a member of Trinity Episcopal. It really hurts our entrance,
especially for disability parking. I do not hate it, but it does really restrict Trinity's welcome and
commitment to Bloomington. The only reason Fremont Street in Vegas worked is because they put the lighted
canopy up and have many outdoor concerts and kiosks. Just blocking Kirkwood without a substantial investment
in planning won't be great whatsoever.
I mean you all could go and read any one of those 200
almost 300 responses to get a better perspective of what is representative of the community rather than
all of us sitting here or the few that call in I just like for this to be Can all sides to be considered
and I do agree that it makes more sense to close it in the wintertime than in the summertime because
it does hinder Native Bloomingtonians who used to drive here regularly from coming and patronizing the
businesses to help keep our downtown vibrant
Thank you. Thank you so much next person in chambers Thank you, my name is Paul Gillard I'm a former
business owner on Kirkwood with a restaurant and I just wanted to speak to The
comparison of the half-year closure to versus a full year closure This may be a little premature for
the time to discuss this but I've heard more about it recently and I think this is where it's leading
to The half-year summertime closure makes a lot of sense. It's been very helpful to businesses bringing
more people downtown
The winter closure November to April becomes really difficult for a business owner the obvious reasons
parking away from Kirkwood and having to travel and the elements once people do that once or twice they
They consciously decide just not to venture downtown in the winter knowing the street is closed and
That makes if we turn the winter time into a difficult sales volume time We already know the summer
with with losing losing so much student population It's difficult for a business down there No matter
what we do with the street and try to bring more people down the the three the real three months when
students are gone It kills your sales volume and it's it's it's part of being on Kirkwood and we know
that but if we start to take away
The community and the students in the in the wintertime that volume That becomes that becomes even tougher
the students we know They find their way to the bars in the wintertime We know that but the remainder
of Kirkwood a lot of the small businesses just don't get the foot the foot traffic of students in the
elements in the weather and the the
Pedestrian bicycle data that you put up Earlier is not relevant in the winter really anymore as well.
So Again from a business owners perspective. We know that the summers already difficult If if the wintertime
becomes difficult for customers to get down there that creates a challenge for business owners that
It really may they may not be able to overcome So thank you for letting me speak tonight
Thank you so much, sir. Next person in chambers. Hi, Paul Russo again. I'm a little bit torn about this
as well, but I mostly favor it. Interesting trend that I see is that generally people
and all the people that have spoken tonight seems that most of the people who look or sound like they're
under 40 are in support of it, and those who look or sound like they're more my age are against it.
And I don't think that's a coincidence. Since I got hit by a car two years ago, I can't walk as easily.
Being able to walk long distances is now something I cannot longer take for granted.
I sympathize with my friends who have spoken against this tonight. I think the key will be how do you
get older people access from parking spaces to the front door? And I would like to suggest that we've
heard about the cart behind a horse tonight. I think horses are kind of messy. I'd rather have a bicyclist
in front of a cart, and I'd like to see
Like like you to consider pedicabs Also known as bicycle taxis And I mentioned this at the transportation
Meeting, I think they I can envision a program in which the city has selects people to be registered
and approved
who shuttle people back and forth between parking garages and the Kirkwood area, especially
in the summertime, especially in the evenings, I suppose, when people want to go out to eat. So I hope
that sort of thing gets considered in the deliberations to follow. Yeah, but I still generally support
this. I think this is the wave of the future. I think that the data... How are the cops doing? How's
the basketball doing?
Mr. Mr. Stirbomb, you're unmuted. Please mute yourself. Thank you Yeah I lost my train of thought I
Was going to say that the data that that is old is especially out of date because it was before the
pandemic and
I think we all saw the pandemic really changed a lot of things and spurred momentum towards these kind
of pedestrian zones Not just here, but all over the country and in Europe. So please consider that too.
Thank you Thank you any other commenters in chambers, please go ahead But I'm Jessica I'm a manager
at one of the businesses around and
I'm a single mother so Closing of Kirkwood decisions that are made in this room directly whether or
not can provide for my family because it Could cause businesses to close down there You aren't just
debating urban design or pedestrian walkways debating the ability of and things
Sorry, I urge you to keep Kirkwood open the reality of the business model We are a business of convenience
and spontaneous and Julie which Is considering parents driving home with their kids and families running
errands downtown and elderly residents looking for a quick treat treat to rely on and
Being able to access our block when Kirkwood is closed They are gonna just move on move along. They're
not gonna stop in and see us. So that's gonna rely on the business being Empty streets bring
more pedestrians, but the exact opposite Daily visits on Kurt to Kirkwood actually dropped by 8% during
a recent closures For business like ours that 8% drop isn't just a statistic comes cheap. I
It means fewer customers lower sales and fewer tips for the hard-working staff that I manage furthermore
The practical nightmare furthermore running shop requires consistent logistical Support we need deliveries
of dairy supplies and all of those things we can't have somebody just put a time limit somebody said time but
We can't tell a big company that they can only come at this certain time. So that wouldn't necessarily
work. So that will make my job more difficult. We cannot run a successful downtown economy on weekends
and festival hours alone. Now, those are great. That brings in business, but the city's current
Parkland model already works. It gives restaurants outdoor seating without destroying the traffic flow
retail for social link shops Like ours desperately need to survive Please remember downtown Bloomington
is sustained by real people working Demanding hours and keep our community vibrant Do not sacrifice
the livelihoods and local workers and independent shops for experiment on the data that shows is failing
Keep our streets accessible protect our local workers and vote no Thank you Thank you very much Are
there any other comments in? chamber All right Let's come back. I'm sorry one more online person online
Close us out, please
Thank you. I just wanted to comment in support. I think we're hearing a lot of opposition and a lot
of assumptions being made The first one I'll comment on is the comment about you need cars to bring
people places I actually opt for walking and biking as often as possible and I don't bring my car so
I don't think that that's a valid point We have parking garages. We have buses. We have bike paths.
We have sidewalks We have all the infrastructure that would support getting people downtown without
using a car I have
regularly used the downtown area in the Kirkwood area in the last two summers when this has been an
option and I will actually and I'm already finding myself not going downtown as often because it's not
built and set up the same way that it has been the last two summers. I think it's really easy to push
back on the data and say that there's failure but the data that was presented today very clearly painted
a picture that in the right conditions with the right factors being considered and the right logistics
being planned for it can be very successful and I think we're hearing a lot of pushback that is grounded
in assumptions
that it will be a failure, but if we're planning this properly and we're taking into consideration things
like disabled people, then it can be a lot more successful. This is also kind of narrowly focused on
people who are
disabled from a physical standpoint in one specific category. It's not taking into consideration people
who actually want to spend time outside in safer places with cleaner air, not inside of a building for
someone who might be COVID cautious like myself and actually depends on being able to eat at restaurants
outside in the summer. And I can't do that in the winter and I'm a year long resident. I am someone
who was born and raised here and I love towny summer and I love spending time downtown and on campus
in the summer. So I think the argument against
students not being there and the business not being there because the students leave is not a valid
one. We see more and more students staying around through the summer every single year and the residents
most of the people that I spend time around they look forward to being able to access downtown and be
able to do things and use things without the students overrunning that. So I think again not really
a valid argument for everyone.
I think I would just urge people to consider the fact that many of the fears that we're hearing today
are grounded on the fact that we are assuming this will fail. They are not being grounded in the fact
that we have a choice here to plan intentionally and budget for these things and make it more accessible
for disabled people, make it more accessible for folks who need to get there physically. But we need
to be thinking about the collective needs here and it sounds like residents are really in support and
the residents want to support the businesses and they will do that
If we support making this a pedestrian space if we're not listening to the residents who want to go
spend the money downtown Then what's the point of all this? So I would just urge you to zoom out a little
bit and not be so rooted in the fears here and be Rooted in what the data says about situations like
ours and cities like ours and how that can be successful. Thank you Thank you so much and I'm I was
asked for you to say your name for the record or some alias or something
The last person. Maybe they're gone. No, no, no, no, the person online. Okay, fantastic. Well, there's
two more people. Okay, well, two more people. Go ahead, two more people. Hi, my name is Alex York, for
the record. Sorry, I've had my hand up and down. I've been putting my kids to bed this evening.
And yeah, that's...
They're not asleep yet and I hope they don't call, so I'm just going to say that the last speaker, I
fully embraced their comments and would like to second them and will add the additional detail. I am
a father of two young children. We have been in that Perkwood area on occasions when it has been closed
for events, and it is a beautiful place to be with my children as a family. And if the street were closed,
we would frequent there much more often. And also to the economic concerns and things, going back to
the first comment from Zach, I fully agree that there's a much higher risk of failure if there's a failure
of imagination but the closure. We have to do this. If you do it, you must do it right. Which means
that, you know,
splitting the year is never going to be as successful because you can't have the correct infrastructure
for both vehicles and a pedestrian ball. So yeah, just those are the factors that I encourage you to
consider. I would love to see this happen. And thank you very much. Thank you very much. All right,
now last person online. Close us out, please. Sorry, hey, I couldn't unmute myself earlier. I was the
previous speaker.
I just wanted to comment my name for the record. My name is Tessa Donahue. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you. All right, back to council. All right, back to public comment. One last comment.
Now, if you have not raised your hand at this point, after this, I'm not going to relent. Go person
online, your chance. Hello.
Good evening, I'm on a family vacation on the East Coast right now, but I wanted to hop on quickly and
just share an email I had sent to council in case you hadn't read it. I did mistakenly say my children's
ages. My son is nine and my daughter is eight. Katie and Jeff Yoder are our names and I'm just going
to read from the email that I shared with council. When Kirkwood was closed to vehicle traffic, it became
a place we wanted to spend time.
a third place if you will, we would bike and run and walk downtown, linger after meals, browse shops,
run into friends, and enjoy being part of the community. It felt safer, more welcoming, and more inviting
for families. Instead of hurrying from one destination to another, we stayed. As parents, we are constantly
evaluating spaces through the lens of safety. We teach our children to watch for traffic, use crosswalks,
and be aware of distracted drivers.
While cars are a necessary part of our community, not every space needs to be designed around them.
A pedestrian-focused Kirkwood gives families a place where people, not vehicles, are the priority. We
understand that where there are concerns about costs, implementation, and other areas of Bloomington
that also need investment, those are important conversations to have. However, we do not believe those
priorities are mutually exclusive
Bloomington can continue improving pedestrian safety and infrastructure throughout the city while also
creating welcoming spaces in its vibrant downtown core. Our own neighborhood is currently being considered
for pedestrian and cyclist improvements after a child was struck by a careless driver. And this was
a close neighbor and friend of our children. And this was on the transportation commission
We've discussed this extensively. That experience has reinforced the importance of designing communities
that prioritize people. We are encouraged when Bloomington invests in safer, more walkable spaces, and
we see a pedestrianized Kirkwood as an extension of those same values. Bloomington's own transportation
planning already recognizes that different streets serve different purposes.
Some corridors are designed to move traffic efficiently while others, other places where people gather,
walk, shop, and connect. Kirkwood sits at the heart of our city and our downtown. Investing in it as
a people-focused space aligns with Bloomington's broader commitment to walkability, safety, and a vibrant
public spaces. What we appreciated most about a car-free Kirkwood
was not simply the absence of cars, it was the presence of people, families, students, residents, visitors,
and friends all sharing a common space. It felt like the kind of downtown that draws people in rather
than moves them through. As a family, we spent more time downtown when Kirkwood was closed. We stayed
longer for more businesses. I'm so sorry, that's your time. Thank you. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of
your vacation, and everyone, we made it through
Thank you for your wonderful comments and we're back to counsel. I'm sorry. Stop it We're back to counsel
for final comments before a vote anyone all right councilmember Ella Yes, thanks, well first let me
say I thank my colleagues for bringing this forward I I'm too torn I some of the comments
Terry too much here, but obviously there are mixed views and those all need to be considered I think
I'm sort of flying blind at this point in terms of understanding the disposition of The community although
we've had a lot of public comment and there's a lot to consider. I'm particularly sensitive to The businesses
on Kirkwood and those surrounding it. I've only had the opportunity to speak just today with Michael
Mazer from
imports John Santos and I had a brief conversation, but I want to extend that and hear more from him
and others Lots to consider here Councilmember daily talked about the impact of the Convention Center,
which is going to open in early 2027. Hopefully That's going to have a profound I think impact on the
success of this
There has to be a lot more mr. MG talked about metrics for success. I absolutely think that we need
those we have to have assurances of probability of success I Heard a comment about if it occurs it must
be done, right? Obviously we have to do this Full be fully invested in if we do it and with that comes
the necessity for funding Which is of course important consideration is grant funding available
Accessibility concerns a paramount to me as well So my view is To bookmark this for the future And to
revisit it through a series of deliberation sessions so that we can we can really dive deep into these
particulars and make sure that Whatever trade-offs are made Makes sense and that success is assured so
I'll be supporting this for now tentatively with you know the expectation that we will visit this again
in various forms and have a better idea of What what we will do at that time, so? Thank you. Thank you
very much council members who look thank you I guess I'll start off by saying that in a perfect world.
I would love to see Kirkwood pedestrianized
But I don't feel that the current state of Kirkwood is the version that we would like to see closed.
If you spent time on Kirkwood last year when it was closed, folks might have noticed that the street
was fairly empty, especially during the periods where students were not in town. That is not the vibrant
Kirkwood that we would all like to see. The kinds of changes that would be required to do so are incredibly
expensive, and I'm not convinced that that's the best use of our funds that are currently pretty limited.
Councilmember Piedmont Smith brought up last week. There are many other streets including South Walnut
a major corridor that needs some serious investment to While it is a blessing that Kirkwood and district
six are getting so much attention We do already spend a significant amount of money on the maintenance
of Kirkwood more than any other street and I think we could spread the love a little bit more around
the city and
And I have many more thoughts on this but I will spare you all a big thank you to council members Rosenberger
and daily for Continuing to have conversations about this with me and working to solve issues raised
in previous meetings if this passes I promise not to bite my nose to spite my face and I will do my
best to Support further activation efforts and investments that bring the city to life that said given
our current financial situation I cannot support this tonight. Thank you
Thank you councilmember Stasberg then councilmember Piedmont Smith Thank you So I've put a lot of thought
into this decision and for those of you who follow council meetings at all, you know If I write something
out then I'm really serious and I've actually written something out and tried to put little edits in
it as we've gone on tonight so I'm really hoping that it still makes sense, so The pro-con list is relatively
balanced for this issue and public sentiment doesn't
Strongly lean to either direction. There is not an argument or a vote that will work for everyone My
decision tree has involved doing my best to look at the big picture of pedestrian malls the importance
of community space and how this fits into the Reality that is Bloomington with regard to pedestrian
malls. It has been acknowledged that though most pedestrian malls have failed There are success stories
and the successes are pretty great. I've lived in a town that had a failed pedestrian mall, but I'm
also from Vermont and
Shoppers from all over the state had to Church Street for their shopping deans The approach I took was
to look at some of the successes that were cited Pearl Street Church Street, Iowa City Ithaca and figure
out what might be contributing to their success and whether Kirkwood reflected those same attributes
the biggest commonality that was that the biggest commonality was that pedestrianized streets see successes
in college towns and we are that but there were several other areas where I think Kirkwood falls short and
For starters the number of established retail establishments and restaurants are a lot higher in those
places than on Kirkwood Even though the pedestrianized space is often shorter and I'm just gonna say
I'm gonna call out Church Street in Burlington a little bit because I'm a Vermonter and you know, we
can put that title up there Oh Burlington only has 40,000 people but their urbanized area is much bigger
and you know, they were like the last state to get a
Big-box stores which meant 30 years ago 35 40 years ago when I was a kid Like you drove hours to get
to a mall because there were not malls anywhere, right? So it really drew people from all over not just
from the Burlington population and not even just from the metro area which is now over 200,000 people
Right now they are four blocks and they have over a hundred retail and restaurant establishments We're
talking about five blocks of Kirkwood and I actually Thank you for the assist from I think DBI Bloomington
We have 32 restaurants and 14 retail places down there on Kirkwood right now. That's just not enough
density of Destination to be as successful I think as we want it to be so getting back to Bloomington
a little bit and getting back to what I actually wrote
Sample gates to the square. It's five full blocks. It's almost half a mile. It's an extremely long stretch
the slideshow said that one of the things that cited success was short streets short stretches five
blocks half a mile is not short it is incredibly long and There are not very many Establishments there.
So I also looked at parking and not because I love parking in cars. I
But because the success of this space will depend on visit numbers and vehicular travel is one way that
visitors come to this area And I want to say there's a whole bunch of stuff in this written statement
that overlap several comments That that the public made here tonight So the successful pedestrian malls
that I examined and you know, I'm looking at them on Google Maps. I'm I'm doing the street view I'm
looking at the overhead, you know what they had parking garages adjacent to the pedestrian space and
you could walk out of the parking garage and on to the pedestrian space and We don't have that right
now now could we have that? Potentially do we have some surface parking lots that are pretty close.
Yes, but we don't particularly advertise that very well Okay, and there's still their surface parking
spots. They are usually full Parking really does become an issue and
And then lastly as somebody else also pointed out I looked at pictures and designs of the pedestrian
spaces and the successful pedestrian spaces Are not closed to vehicular traffic for only part of the
year. They are closed to vehicles year-round sometimes with exceptions for specifically timed deliveries
and that allows the middle of the street development for planting public art and other interesting street
features a seasonal closure on Kirkwood allows for only minimal infrastructure changes to optimize pedestrian
enjoyment of the street and
Short I don't think what we have right now on Kirkwood spells success for a closure to vehicular traffic
Especially one that requires closure as this ordinance does of five complete blocks for only part of the year
Well, I think it is possible to create a vibrant and exciting pedestrian street in Bloomington. Perhaps
even on Kirkwood It will take a significant investment to get there and that brings me to the next part
of my consideration that the sponsors have argued that this kind of ordinance is what is necessary to
force the administration's hand to make investments in a pedestrianized Kirkwood and meet the council
cited priorities related to third spaces and community growth and I lean toward agreeing with my colleagues
on that point and
I'm deeply disappointed with how the decision to remain open to vehicles was made this year The process
did not recognize how ordinance 2025 02 had been written and is another example of this administration
Not giving attention to the decisions of this legislative body That said for me a yes vote tonight indicates
that I strongly support significant budgetary investment into a robust plan to convert Kirkwood from
sample gates to the square into a pedestrian optimized space
Some people may not like hearing this, but if we invest significant funds into a space like this, which
I'm not certain that we should do at all, I'm not even convinced that the five blocks of Kirkwood is
the best place to do it. While there is, as was cited in our budget priorities for this year, full body
agreement on investment in third spaces, a specific third space is not cited, and I have to ask the
question to myself, is Kirkwood the best place for this? Is that what we should close? If we did do that,
My answer right now is maybe and I'm interested and excited about the upcoming deliberation session
That will happen eventually to kind of talk about that because maybe a different space should be considered
maybe if we're going to convert vehicle space into people space we should think about 4th Street between
done and grant and
Because there's so many restaurants there and so much shade. Maybe we should think about The Kirkwood
block on the square or maybe we should think about the 6th Street block on the square if we're gonna
invest in third spaces with with additional monies should we invest in places like along the beeline
park and switch our park right which somebody also mentioned as being super active right now and I just can't
Commit right now to saying yes, let's have this big monetary investment specifically in these five blocks
of Kirkwood So I suspect that my five minutes is is up And probably the two after that last thing I'm
gonna say is that the end of this climate plan action a climate action plan action that was cited earlier
and is cited in the amendment says that
They should establish implementation based on Kirkwood pilot project observations and recommendations
evaluate feasibility of Limiting vehicles on certain days of the week and implementing congestion parking
pricing where appropriate So somebody mentioned cherry picking certain things and I think that that
was something that was cherry picks staff has clearly said That you know based on the pilot project
observations and recommendations they're interested in implementing something else and
I just, I cannot support this tonight for all of those reasons. Thank you very much. Thank you so much,
Council Member Piedmont-Smith. Yes, thank you. First of all, I'd like to say that I, my video was off
for some of the public comment, but I was listening to the public comment. So I find myself agreeing
with almost everyone
So I agree that ultimately it would be, it is a great goal to have Kirkwood or part of Kirkwood be a
pedestrian zone. I've supported that ever since I voted for the transportation plan in 2019. I loved
sitting out on Kirkwood when it was closed and having dinner. Only in the shade though.
And I do recognize the importance of third spaces. At the same time, I think that a deliberation session
should happen before we change our city code. We are putting this in city code. This is not like the
other steps we took where we were like, this is use of right of way in Title 12. No, this is in Title 15.
We're saying these streets shall be, this street shall be closed from this and this date. That is a
really big step to take before we have a deliberation session. I think that we have some good data from
previous years. We have not as much data as I would like. I think there was some missteps in gathering real,
feedback that we could really use to make decisions. I think there's also been CPU projects and construction
projects that have gotten in the way of the pilot's programs. Overall, I think there are, there are
not, there's no, to me there's not an urgency to put this in our code now. Especially
if we, seeing that our revenue sources are going to be limited in the coming years because of what the
state legislature has done. I just don't think it's fiscally wise to put this in our ordinance and then
say we'll figure out the funding later before we've had any deliberation sessions. So I do really appreciate
all the work that council members Rosenberger and Daly have put into this,
Will not be supporting it tonight. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm councilmember Flaherty. Thank you
Yeah, I really appreciate all the public comment and discussion That we've had this year and all the
previous years When we've discussed this it's much of the same conversation every year It changes a
little bit based on experience of perception and what's going on at the Statehouse I generally have
held the view for a long time since before I served on council that
we can do great things in Bloomington and that we have a unique and really, you know, special opportunity
between the courthouse square and the sample gates to design a shared street and to have that street
be pedestrian focused for much of many times in the year. I think this is a good step that basically
just does better what we already did with a vote of 9-0 in ordinance 2025-02 last year.
So it's interesting to reflect that I don't know how the final it's gonna end up here. It sounds like
it's gonna be close It's an instrument reflect that nine of us supported creating a local law last year
that would do exactly what this ordinance does and And now maybe half the folks are not so sure anymore
And just kind of I'm not quite sure why I've listened to their comments And and there's a few things
kind of emerging One but but again, this is already in
Already a local law. We're just sort of closing a loophole through which the mayor without really any
Real consultation with the counselor asked asked for asking for input Decided to just close the program
for this year. So that's why we're back We're not talking from a funding perspective the transportation
plan calls for not a corridor study It calls for a redesign of Kirkwood as a shared street. That's a
design question there I
Think is funding coming proposed for next year to undertake that design charrette process and redesign,
but it's not a corridor study Just want to clarify that That's what the major expense will be. I don't
know on what timeline we're gonna be able to do that It might be five ten fifteen years before we remove
the curbs on Kirkwood from you know walnut to to Indiana Avenue and actually design it maybe in a way
that looks a little bit like Hopewell comments or something like that those types of materials, you
know flush
Street That's the big expense piece. We've already been doing this for a number of years at relatively
low expense Can it be better than it's been? Absolutely. It can be that's that's the vision and I hear
my colleagues who are gonna vote no tonight also supporting that vision But that vision takes commitment
the the idea that we're gonna get there by saying well I'm not sure where the funding is coming from.
So I'm just gonna keep waiting. I Just respectfully disagree that's gonna get us anywhere. I think if
we vote no on this and
That's all but a guarantee that as long as mayor Tom's in an office in office. There's this isn't happening
So, you know, I think it's appropriate for us to take a step that Resolidifies what we decided as a
body 9-0 at the beginning of last year to commit to this on a seasonal basis Starting from where we
are and getting better over time so I think we need that certainty like I mentioned earlier in order to
That is the horse in the car's analogy in my view and the details of Trade-offs including the trade-offs
and of you know the status quo and what we're giving up by maintaining what the way things are now Those
all need to be considered and deliberation sessions are great places for that but we've had a lot of
public comment and discussion on this over the years and There just isn't a consensus view, but we do
have a lot of city plans and goals that speak pretty clearly to this so I'll be supporting it and I
hope it passes and I hope that
Regardless of the outcome. We'll keep out in the conversation, but I really do think that if we can't
pass this tonight, you know Under this mayor anyway that this idea is probably done. Thank you so much.
That's my flirty Councilmember rough First of all, I want to thank the sponsors because I
Not only did I know they worked hard thought hard did a lot of outreach talked a lot of people made
compromises made changes reached out for input to all of us and It's always inspiring to me to see council
members work together On an initiative so I know that That happened this time and I appreciate it very
much. I also want to say I appreciate the
Apparently sounds like the Trust Transportation Commission is taking staff Input as advisory
as recommendations and I like to know that that's the orientation that the Commission has Just so When
the age thing keeps coming up as it has across the many recent years it it rubs me the wrong way and
I'm old I'm gonna be I'll be 65 next year but I still 90% of my thousands and thousands and thousands
of trips up and down Kirkwood over the last 55 years Have been either by bike or on foot 90% of them
always I Really see all the arguments
There's good arguments. There's good considerations to think about on on on both sides of this but At
this point in history and a couple of already mentioned what you know, why do we change? Well, we've
we've why some of us may have changed something that we thought differently about last year Well, there
are some physical realities that are a little looking a little different now in our future for cities
in Indiana
And also we hadn't heard I've heard different things tonight The arguments may have always sort of been
there but they were laid out really well by people tonight I thought very persuasively and I told both
the sponsors this legislation that I was coming into this meeting tonight Totally open to be persuaded
by the what I thought were the best arguments to make a decision on this and that's how I did come in and
Everyone you there will be costs and we're heading into a future where We need to be thinking about
our real basic services and our real our real serious priorities I Raised my two kids here racing up
and down we would down Kirkwood all the time The idea that that we're setting that it's like not a pedestrian
environment
But this would make it one, you know Kirkwood to me It's bikeable and it's walkable and it's drivable
and parkable I See a bit a big vision that yeah, this could come but not without as one of my council
colleagues a minute ago It might even come from a clarity without a real commitment To make this happen
and I just don't think we're in a position to make that commitment long term
At least at this point we're not so Unless I Was given clear evidence and I wasn't tonight really to
give me the confidence that the upsides of this Would so substantial substantively outweigh the downsides
and concerns that it was a slam dunk then
It's more right now. It ain't broke Don't fix it. We don't really have a plan We don't it's not to me
a good Plan for more investment when we are going into lean times due to state legislation You know,
I do I am sensitive to what everybody's comments all those who are in favor or really support this But
one of the speakers said You know we have switch yard park
We have the beeline We have campus. We have a lot of spaces where we can go and Enjoy a safe car free
Environment and Does a trip down to Kirkwood that some speakers said that they wouldn't have taken otherwise
if it was not a pedestrian mall Is that just a trip they wouldn't have taken to switch yard or to the
beeline or you know?
Don't see the net For this being so clearly persuasively Convincing that at this time I can support
it. I just I Again really appreciate the work of this council sponsors. I really do and I appreciate
all the input that came from both people with both perspectives on both sides of this issue and
but I Just I'm not I'm not there right now on this Thank you very much any other council colleagues
all right councilmember Rosenberger First I wanted to say there were a couple emails that were really
good that we got and it's just points that weren't brought up at all and I kind of wanted to
Timer I guess I kind of just wanted to mention one a little bit because I thought it was just really
good in a perspective we absolutely haven't heard at all and I'll just do like a sentence or two even
though the whole thing is Really relevant this is just someone saying I'm highly in favor of the seasonal
closure as a mother of two young boys ages 9 and 6 and one of whom is autistic spending time on Kirkwood
when it is closed feels and is much safer and
We often walk downtown from our house to go to the library to pick up the kids from Lincoln Street Boys
and Girls Club And we are much more inclined to add a side trip to heart souls or pop into farm Bloomington
for fries When Kirkwood is closed because of the increased safety and pleasantness of the experience
From an inclusion perspective the seasonal closure of Kirkwood makes it more accessible for our autistic
child Pedestrian streets are calmer without the traffic noise and pollution of cars which is supportive
of keeping him and us
Calmer and more at ease autistic children can be impulsive and the increased safety of a pedestrian
street brings down our hyper vigilance It also lawyers lowers barriers to our participation in community
life Which is important so he can grow up feeling part of the larger community. I think something that
got a little missed tonight was that people there are people that already love this and think it is good and
Many meetings ago when we were talking about this one Commenter said they go down there and they're
gonna go down there the same amount But it's gonna be a lot better if it doesn't have cars on it just
the way it is I Think last meeting a council member said it seems to be working pretty good But while
Kirkwood has been open to cars in the last couple years. We have lost local establishments We've lost
cafe pizzeria. We've lost we're losing Trojan horse. We lost
I don't know if it really is a chain Dan's fat Dan sandwich place I don't know if it is a chain right
and then the the the restaurants that can afford to come in our chains because Chains can afford to
not make as much money is very different. It can be very different franchises are different, too But
it can be very different than a small business trying to survive on Kirkwood And I mean Trojan was there
since the 70s, right? So like something actually isn't working
One of the reasons they cited for moving to Ellisville is outdoor dining They cited other reasons right,
but that was one some things we didn't bring up The Bloomington Commission on sustainability and reason
and resilience also passed a resolution that you not unanimously Encouraged us to keep a car free Kirkwood.
I You know, I don't think it's likely that
the administration will let this happen next year if this vote doesn't go through because We already
saw one year of it not going through Because it was deemed impractical So I think like the good thing
about voting yes on this is that It does put pressure on making it better even though people do think
it is good that I mean people do think it is good and
Someone mentioned and I was in our the memo from ESD that there's a percent loss in revenue. I Think
things have been harder for restaurants for sure that graduation has been moved to dinnertime on Saturday
night It was potentially the biggest revenue night of the year and now it's like I go to uptown at graduation
because I can walk right up to the bar. It's very different so there's that I know last year also there
was one fewer football games and
So it's just a we can't just say that in a vacuum that because there were people walking more on Kirkwood
we lost revenue I Guess that's it. I want to thank everyone too for just really considering this a lot.
We have been talking about it for five years Every year and I'm hoping this year can be different and
we can work to make it something more permanent and something that we fund in any capacity
Year-after-year it is true that right now it should already be a line item in the budget because it
is slated to be closed to cars From April to November, so that should at least already be in the budget.
I Guess I do want to say this the Congress for new urbanism they can be kind of flipped on Car free
streets, but just spec does talk about and I know we've talked about it tonight You need one of three things
resort town college town or density so CNU would also approve this I think thank you Thank you so much
comes member daily. All right. Sure. Thank you I just have a couple bullet points notes that I wanted
to reply to again, thank you to everybody for this conversation. Hey, I've You know enjoyed working
with councilmember Rosenberger. Yes, we have put a lot of work into it and a lot of conversations and
we've tried to
hear from as many people as we could. We've had great conversations with the administration. I think
those have gone well. We've got good feedback from them, great feedback from the community. All of my
colleagues up here, we're more than happy to chat with us and give us their feedback. We've tried really
hard to incorporate as much of that as we could because we want this to work. We really want to make
this something that is palatable to all. We've tried to
bring as much feedback as we can to make as many people support it as possible. A couple bullet points.
It was brought up that, well, we're doing this while the students are gone. What's the point? We're
doing it before the students leave. And then again, it stays closed to vehicles until mid-November.
So the students come back in early August. That's still a good chunk of time while the students are
here bringing more foot traffic to the downtown businesses and to the closed Kirkwood area.
You know, with all due respect, it's not the same to say, well, you can just go to Switchyard or you
can go walk around campus. There are no businesses there. That's why I like to go walk around Kirkwood.
I like to go get an impulse ice cream cone or an impulse matcha latte. My kids will always talk me into
buying them a treat somewhere or something.
So it's it's fun to just go downtown without a plan And I I think we'll see more of that more of the
impulse purchases, you know, it's I don't go I walk I do go to switch yard and walk around I do go to
campus and walk around but That's not a destination like Kirkwood is Some other notes that I had oh
Councilmember Rallo mentioned the Convention Center. I think that's gonna bring a lot more pedestrian traffic
down there, people are going to get into town and be like, well, hey, let's go explore the town. Where
do we go? Oh, we go to Kirkwood. And they'll explore the restaurants, maybe without a plan, and maybe
they'll pop into bars or pop into shops. What a great way to attract people to those businesses is when
they're in town for the convention. Also, football games, when people are in town for the football games.
We also did have support from the Kirkwood Association. We didn't point that out earlier There's been
a lot of A lot made out of losing the parking along Kirkwood We're already losing a lot of parking on
Kirkwood because of the parklets that's not been pointed out You know, those those are being taken already
by the parklets. So saying well, we can just do parklets instead that doesn't
Rectify the the parking concerns that have been brought up. So I feel like that kind of balances out
that argument People keep pointing to last summer as not being Great. It wasn't I fully agree, right?
And that's why we want to do this so that we have that motivation to say hey, you know what? Maybe let's
put up a couple awnings this year on the the 300 block in front of the library, right and
That did feel desolated and pretty unpleasant. We can start small with a couple awnings or a couple
shades up there Yeah, it's not going to be what it was last summer Because there wasn't anything done
last summer It was also brought up that this is you know five blocks long it's it's too long to fit
into the model, you know that was Cited as being successful. It's just one block longer. There was another
pedestrian mall in there that was cited as being successful, that was eight blocks long. So I think
that kind of still fits into the model. All right, that's everything that I had. Thanks everybody for
listening. Council Member Piedmont-Smith. Yeah, I just wanted to speak again because Council Member
Flaherty's comment about we all
nine of us supported this last year and why are we not all supporting it this year? So Council Member
Ruff already mentioned one reason and that is that reduce our property tax revenues and we have very
complex process to try to
make up some of that through local income taxes that relies on the county agreeing to a countywide tax.
And it's all very much up in the air. So to make long-term financial commitments now as opposed to in
February of 2025 is very different. Also, and this has been mentioned by both sides, 2025 experience
of a closed Kirkwood was not that great. It was not activated.
and there were some security concerns as well. So that's another thing that's different between February
of 25 and now. And I want to really, I really do appreciate the work that's been done by the sponsors,
but one thing that would have been really helpful and that it didn't, I didn't,
really think of it until the conversation this evening and all the public comment, but how much does
it cost to activate and administer a pedestrian zone? I think one member of the public did bring some
figures about that, but I do think it costs quite a lot of money, not just to do the study, as Council
Member Flaherty said, the bulk of the money will be to do the Kirkwood Avenue study, it's not a corridor study,
But every year to maintain this zone, and first of all, beyond the study to purchase the infrastructure
we need to create the shade and create the atmosphere that we're going for and just to administer that
activation every year, it's gonna cost quite a bit. But I'd like to leave you with this quote from Leslie
Davis from the Council on Community Accessibility.
There's no doubt that closing Kirkwood to vehicular traffic disproportionately and negatively impacts
people with disabilities. At a minimum, BT access should be permitted to deliver people to places on
Kirkwood that would otherwise not be accessible to vehicles. This is a frequently voiced and substantiated
concern, especially of our blind community members. There are too many concerns for me to vote yes on this now.
accessibility concerns and others. So anyway, I just want to clarify why my position has shifted. And
it's not exactly the same thing we're doing now. We're actually putting it into Title 15, which I think
is stronger. But regardless, this is why my position has changed. Thank you. Thank you so much. Will
the clerk please call the roll?
Councilmember Ralla yes Rough no Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes Stasberg no Piedmont Smith no Zulek no
Sorry, yes daily. Yes, I
You that passes congratulations. All right, let's move on I Move that resolution 20 26-9 be introduced
and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second Motion in a second will Kirk, please call the
roll Councilmember rough
Rosenberger, yes clarity. Yes Stasberg. Yes, you know Smith. Yes Yes, I'm sorry. Yes daily. Yes Rallo.
Yes Thank you I Move that resolution 2026 oh nine. I'm sorry. Well the clerk, please read I
Resolution 2026-09 to adopt the Monroe County multi-hazard mitigation plan. The synopsis is as follows.
This resolution adopts the Monroe County multi-hazard mitigation plan, which is required by the Disaster
Mitigation Act of 2000 before localities may receive federal funds for mitigation projects. Mitigation
plans are intended to identify vulnerabilities and prioritize measures to reduce or eliminate long term
risk to human life and property from acknowledged hazards to the community.
Thank you very much. I move that resolution 20 2609 be adopted second All right. Is there anybody from
the city who is here to present on this? has not become one with the chair I Have become unfused Hi,
I'm Jamie Neville. I'm from the neuro county emergency management so
Trying to keep this as brief as possible, but kind of how we made this plan was is done by a third party
vendor. We start with a meeting with different representatives of the governing bodies within the county
and we get a feel for the hazards. Now these hazards are not picked by us. They are picked by FEMA.
This is very much a FEMA driven plan in case you have not
caught the flavor of this plan already. They picked those plans. They are natural disasters with the
exception of the hazmat and the dam or levee failure which they categorize as a human hazard but it
parallels on the environmental side so it's easy to sneak those in. But there's a ranking system and
every jurisdiction ranks those hazards.
based on historical data and Just experience and that gets the CPRI and that is how we get that ranking
system and At the very end I'm so sorry and then at the very end the second meeting that takes place
is mitigation strategies and so at the very end of the document there's a lot of mitigation strategies
that have been identified by the different jurisdictions and
I will also acknowledge that there are some errors that exist within the plan. There's a table of errors
that we have been building, and thank you to Council Member Strasburg and Isabelle Piedmont-Smith for
helping me with the add to that list so that we can get those resolved through the vendor. Thank you
so much. Questions? Council Member Strasburg.
Yeah, I just want to make sure to say that I I have more I just need to email them to you and I didn't
get time to do that today so I'm glad that you can kind of like make these edits and I guess I'm kind
of in terms of like a Monroe County taxpayer a little concerned about some of these errors because they
were probably made by the consultant that then we paid and then they did things like
pounds in that are not actually in our county and those sorts of errors to me just seem like Like it
just kind of feels like oh great So you like copy and paste it half of this from some other plan and
you know How much are we paying you for this? And so yeah, that's I guess more of a comment but the
question that I have kind of related is on that list of
Committee members the only Bloomington City folks there were related to the fire department So how did
you like reach out to get committee members? so the meeting invite goes out and It goes out and if they
come they come I Can't make them attend
Also put on the invite if there's somebody missing, please feel free to share the more the merrier We
did also have people who live in the city of Bloomington as well representing the city of Bloomington
also Okay, I guess I would just I Guess in the future I feel like we need to make sure like after that
first meeting to like identify where there might be gaps
Because I of course can only see gaps in in Bloomington City related stuff. I don't know if there are
gaps and in Ellitsville or Steinsville or in the unincorporated parts or in certain departments as opposed
to other departments and Yeah, so I I would because this has to happen every like five years is five
years. Yes So I agree with you on both. I had a lot of frustration working with the vendor and I I
will probably not work with that vendor again. Not to be rude, but it's just probably a one and done.
And then on the representation side, we were starting these meetings in 2023. And if you think back
to 2023, in the spring of 2023 was when we had a federally declared disaster with the tornado in Steinsville.
So there were, in the words of Taylor Swift, there was a lot going on at the moment.
Thank you very much. It's always good luck to quote Taylor Swift I can't think of the quote but Anyway
Considerations are we entirely beholden to? Operating with just the FEMA administered plan in other
words Could we develop a different plan? One that would be complementary. So for instance, there are
things there are events that aren't addressed here
Or you could envision something that would be Affect many communities that would overwhelm FEMA So we
would like to be self-reliant and things like food Say there's a pan another pandemic or an EMP event
natural or man-made something like that It disrupts a lot supply chain disruption. Should we not prepare
for something like that? And how would we go about it?
So we do and we have other plans. So this is not an all-inclusive. This is our only plan We have many
plans that cover the county This is just for hazard mitigation and this is very specific to the asks
that FEMA puts upon us to qualify for that federal funding Okay, so we have other hazard plans that
include such things as pandemic
Preparedness and that sort of thing. Yes, they live sometimes they live under different islands of sorts
So a pandemic plan would live under the Health Department Okay, but everybody comes together. Those
planes are not developed in a silo Okay, I'm very interested in this and so I'll be in touch with you.
Thank you very much for all your hard work on this plan and thank you for incorporating the
revisions that I suggested or the errors that I caught. I wanted to harken back to May of 2025 when
there were tornadoes in southern Monroe County on the outskirts of Bloomington. Dan Combs, who was the
Perry Township Trustee at the time, and his staff wrote up a report on how they dealt with
trying to help individuals affected by that tornado. They called their report canary in a coal mine.
And I wonder if that has made it to your desk, Ms. Nabel, and to the committee. I know that it's probably
not within the scope of this particular plan, but I wanted to take the opportunity to raise that as
a report that's really worth taking a close look at. It has, I've read it.
We've read it. Both of us have read it within my office. I have a deputy as well. So would that maybe
come into play as far as preparedness plans in the future?
Yes, so we reviewed each of his points and kind of counteracted he mentioned several times that there
was not a plan when there in fact was a plan so The plans that we have are not widely shared within
the county because they are proprietary and they do have strategic pieces within them that I mean we don't
want those things to be shared far and wide because if somebody were to do nefarious things within the
county, they would obviously want to know exactly what our plan says so that they could do the biggest
harm and get the most bang for their buck and we obviously don't want that to happen. So we do kind
of keep those plans close to the vest, but always willing to have discussions with anybody who would
like to come and have discussions. I just never got the chance to have any discussions with Mr. Combs.
unfortunately Okay, thank you Thanks so much any other questions All right, seeing none. We'll then
I'll go to a time of public comment Is there anyone who'd like to make a public comment on this resolution?
All right, anybody online fantastic we'll come back to council council any comments I
Thank you, I'll just say I would for any colleagues who have not gone to tour the emergency management
center I have had the luxury and opportunity to go talk to All of the employees there led by I'm so
sorry. Please remind me of your last name Jamie Nibel. Yes. Thank you so
Yeah, if you'd like to learn more it's a great tour and ask lots of questions. Thanks Thank you so much
other comments councilman Rostos Burke. Yeah, I guess I also want to make a little comment because a
piece of the approval of this tonight is so that our Sustainable and development ESD it can apply for
some federal grants and
Related to sustainability stuff. And so that is one of the reasons why it's coming before us I think
that it is typical maybe that we as a council adopt this Mitigation plan and we just didn't do it last
year. It just kind of got overlooked when it first started But that is something that our staff are
working on that was discussed at the project 46 meeting last week so that
This this actually is an important to do so they can apply for those funds that I believe that application
will happen over the summer Thanks. Thank you so much Any others? All right. Well the click, please
call the roll Councilmember Rosenberger. Yes clarity. Yes Stasburg. Yes Piedmont Smith Yes Zulek. Yes.
Sorry. Yes daily
Yes, Rallo. Yes rough. Yes Thank you Fantastic. All right I've asked them. Well, you go ahead. Yes I'd
like to make a motion to move ordinance 20 26-13 to next on the agenda So that we can get our staff
out of here sooner so they don't have to sit here all night second Motion in the second
Motion was to move the thing on the agenda. So will the clerk please call the roll on this amendment
to the agenda? Thank you. Yeah, just a moment. I gotta get it. So Yes councilmember Flaherty, yes Stasberg
yes Piedmont Smith Yes
Yes, I'm sorry. Yes Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes rough. Yes Rosenberger Okay, I Moved that ordinance 2026-13
be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second Will the clerk was called a roll
Councilmember Stasberg, yes
Piedmont Smith Yes Zulek. Yes. Sorry. Yes Daly. Yes, Rallo. Yes, Ruff. Yes Rosenberger and Flaherty.
Yes. Thank you. Well, of course, please read
Ordnance 2026 dash 13 to amend title 2 of the Bloomington municipal code regarding loans between utilities
the synopsis is as follows this ordinance follows Indiana code section 8 dash 1.5 dash 3 dash 11 and
allows for the wastewater and water Utilities to issue loans to one another through the creation of
a cash reserve fund in each utility through which such loans can be funded Fantastic, thank you
Move that ordinance twenty twenty six dash thirteen be adopted second. Hooray Have you built the thing
that you've been crocheting although we gave you plenty of time We've already heard this presentation
Are there is there anything you wanted to add to that or any questions for directors agar,
please councilmember Stossberg This isn't a question for directors agar, but I would like to move amendment
one for ordinance twenty twenty six thirteen Thank you very much. We have amendment one second. There's
a second fantastic. Go ahead
So that so that's my amendment if you remember last week I brought up that the actual language that
was going to be going into code was very Confusing and I asked for a rewrite of that and so I want to
thank the attorneys and everybody involved I think that the new language actually Explains what is happening
a little bit better in terms of creating it basically it just separated it into a couple of sentences so we're
Creating it says a cash reserve fund is hereby created for each city-owned utility Each of the city's
utilities is authorized to transfer surplus earnings each month hereafter to their respective cash reserve
fund Created in this section and pursuant to Indiana code and the cash reserve fund of one city-owned
utility May be used to make loans to another city-owned utility
Blah blah blah know the rest of that change. So I I appreciate that there was the willingness to to
clarify that language I think it makes a whole lot more sense now Fantastic any comments on the amendment?
Great would anybody like to make public comment on this amendment? Fantastic we'll come back to council.
I'm sorry. Is there anybody online would like to make comments in this amendment? Fantastic. We'll come
back to council any final comments on this amendment Great clerk. Will you please call the roll?
Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes Yes, sorry, yes Daley. Yes, Rallo. Yes, Ruff. Yes, Rosberg Yes Stossburg,
yes. Thank you All right. I'm now as amended. Are there any comments? Oh, I
Any comes from council, I'm sorry any questions further from council? Fantastic would anybody like to
make public comment on this? Ordinance as amended Anybody online tremendous Looking once twice comments
on council Fantastic. Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember Zulek, yes I'm sorry. Yes daily. Yes Rallo
Stasberg yes Piedmont Smith Yes Wow, we're cooking with gas now, let's go that passes I move that resolution
20 26-11 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis only second This motion in the second
there is discussion
Yeah, I just want to say because I've been trying to be consistent about this because the Jack Hopkins
stuff didn't Get released in the packet until this week and I know that I've made a point about that.
However, I am gonna vote yes on this Introduction for two reasons one of which it is kind of an inner
council thing So like our council staff knew that it was coming and so it wasn't sprung on them in terms
of unexpected And secondly, this has to be done tonight. It's our last meeting and Jack Hopkins must
be dealt with
That is very true. Thank you very much. All right, there's a motion in the second with a quick, please
call the roll Councilmember, sorry. Yes Daily, yes, Rallo. Yes Ruff Rosenberger clarity. Yes Stasburg.
Yes, Piedmont Smith Yes, all right, thank you and Zulek. Yes, sorry, sorry
Excuse me Resolution 2026-11 authorizing the allocation of the Jack Hopkins Social Services Fund program
funds for the year 2026 and related matters
The synopsis is as follows. This resolution brings forward the recommendations of the 2026 Jack Hopkins
Social Services Committee. The principal task of the committee is to recommend funding for local social
services agency proposals that best meet program criteria and best meet the needs of the community.
This resolution allocates a total of 499,995 dollars.
$4.63 to 35 different agency programs the resolution also approves the funding agreements with these
agencies and authorizes the council president to execute such agreements Accepts the report of the committee
and authorizes the chair of the committee to resolve any questions regarding the interpretation of the
agreements I Move that resolution 20 26-11 be adopted second All right
Thank you very much. We'll go really quick through this. We don't need to linger long this year for
the Jack Hopkins social service grant There were nine of us committee members It was a got off to a
bit of a rocky start at the beginning when we lost our some of our staff So that was a little worrying
They left us in good shape. We tried a new Application process this year. It was more streamlined and
shorter and so much easier to
for us as grant reviewers to get right to the heart of the information that we needed. I hope that the
applicants found it a little more streamlined and easier, too. So huge shout out to Kari for getting
us set up with that. That was a bit of an adjustment, but we got going with that. I want to give a huge
thank you to our fellows and our interns, who really helped get us through the summer. So Aria, Evan,
and Michael really helped
Keep us organized and communicating We couldn't have done it without their help and then of course when
counsel attorney interim counsel attorney Alan came on he also Gave a huge, you know push toward the
finish line. So It ended up actually working out really well in the end We had a five hundred thousand
dollar budget
I'd like to say that we came in under budget this year for the first time and in the past couple years
We we have five dollars and thirty six cents left over And we funded Nobody cheered for that. Come on.
Thank you We funded 35 agencies. I think we you know worked really hard to make sure that
We were meeting our criteria and our priorities. It was a really smooth process between the nine of
us I think that my fellow committee members who are here tonight Would agree that we were all pretty
much on the same page for most of the process We all were came to the table with the same recommendations
ultimately And then finally, I'd also just like to give a huge. Thank you to our community member committee
members Does that make sense? So Eddie Ryu
Cameron Greer and Catherine and T MOA they were phenomenal to work with and Yeah, any questions, I'm
happy to take them, but I like to I'm proud to put this recommendation forward Thank you and thank you
all so much for the work that you put into this Were any agencies denied funding? Yes, I believe there
were two agencies that we did not fund
Could you speak on why or did they not meet the qualifications or we did not think that their their
request met our standards for the urgency of the Needs that we were looking to fill understood. Thank
you other questions Council member Stasberg Thank you. I have just a note for the community to make
sure that if you like me downloaded this
Addendum a couple of days ago. I did find a couple of things that needed to be changed in that resolution
That in one of the whereas clauses We needed to add in resolution 20 2601 as a reference to the committee
organization and then there was a missing print
And so the resolution Introduced tonight had those things corrected and it's corrected in the packet
online right now But the original but so I just want to make sure that people Are aware of what we're
voting on So it is that that version that has those things two things corrected and then my question
for councilmember daily
has to do with operational expenses. I did see in your scope of funding that operational expenses were
considered this year. Is that new? Because I thought that operational expenses were generally not considered
for Jack Hopkins. I do not believe that was a new part of the consideration. Can anybody else speak
to that? Am I just remembering that incorrectly in terms of original Jack Hopkins?
My recollection is that we is that we we ask to not prioritize people who are that we want we prioritize
investments and things that are sort of one-time lasting investments, but it doesn't doesn't preclude
us from Giving operational funds and for many years we have
Funded operationally like for example at the with IRA is a good example who almost every year asked
for operational funds But they have also made a strong argument that they've been able to then sustain
Those things that we invest in and then they're able to increase their capacities, etc, etc so it is
it has been a consideration for as long as I've been on the Okay, I guess I just
Doesn't necessarily concern me. I do feel like it's kind of a Deviation though because I wouldn't classify
what you just said councilmember. Sorry as an operational fund
Expense because those things as I remember them from the year that I was on Jack Hopkins a couple years
ago It was for like a new staff member or a new program So it was like that entrepreneurial kind of
expansion of services as opposed to continuation of the same services So this year those things that
were categorized as operational expenses were just like maintaining status quo as opposed to trying
to start new programming and
I don't remember any that comes to mind Like you don't remember if it was new parent because I like
tandem Tandem said that it was essential program costs and then Hendrix County Child Advocacy Center
Susie's place was operational expenses including salaries Yeah, those are two that that popped to mind
very specifically with
You know facing huge funding losses because of what's going on federally and what's going on statewide
And so we did see that as somewhat emergency funding. Okay, okay Operational programming as opposed
to like new programs. Okay. Yes So do you think that ongoing like you would advocate for that or does
that just depend on? I
The state of the world, you know when we had our deep this fun. So sorry Yeah, just in terms of Jack
Hopkins Yeah, like the original purpose because I think some of the original purpose statements was
about trying to get new things going and not just maintain Yeah, when we had our debrief was it just
a week ago a week ago feels like forever ago when we had our debrief We did kind of talk about that
actually, you know, one of our concerns was, you know, maybe we see some of the same
Organizations come back with like, you know almost like the same ask every year and is this Is how are
we going to encourage new applicants new asks One of the things that we've considered doing is actually
starting to meet earlier not waiting until February to do an organizational meeting maybe start in November
and start kind of setting our process and our policies that early and
Kind of getting a stronger foundation that much earlier so that too we can also then convey it to the
public What we're going to be looking for when we do start accepting applications in the late winter
early spring Okay, thanks Any other questions All right. We'll now go to public comment. Would anybody
like to comment on this resolution for authorizing the Jack Hopkins allocations?
to mention something because I have been on the Jack Hopkins and on This year was looking at it from
a more of a startup perspective for a nonprofit For those that are all volunteer run you may not be
getting the applications because the time frame from when the announcement goes in out and then when
the Application needs to be submitted was too short. So I would suggest making that a
longer. Thank you. Thank you so much. Anyone online? Yes, please. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes, we can.
Thank you. This was Carol Canfield. Excuse me. And I'm a lifelong member of the community. I've come
every year for, I don't know, 20 plus years
speaking against giving money to Planned Parenthood. Here's my reason why this year. We continue to
give significant money to an organization, Planned Parenthood, that lies to clients, calling human beings
a clump of cells, and also lies to men and women, making them think that there are more than two sexes.
There are not. God created man and woman, man and woman, period.
You cannot be born one thing and become another. When are we going to stop lying about this and supporting
an entity that lies to its clients and to the public? Truth matters. And truth is not something that
can be changed. Truth is eternal. Please don't give them any more of our money. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Is there anybody else in council chambers? Anyone else online? One more person
online, take it away. Hi, I'm Joan Middendorf. I am a fifth generation Hoosier. When I went to college
in the Midwest, I got my birth control from Planned Parenthood. I've got two daughters, and a few years
ago when I stopped buying them presents for Christmas,
told them I would donate money to places. It was interesting that both my daughters told me to take
their Christmas money and donate it to Planned Parenthood because it had helped them. And I'm gonna
tell my granddaughter about Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is an organization that helps women
with their sexual health. So important for so many women. Thank you very much. Have a good evening.
Thank you. You too. All right. We'll come back to council comments any comments on Jack Hopkins funds
Please councilman Rallo Yes, I I Thought the process was very good and I really I want to say thank
you to chair Daley for terrific work that was done on on it I I do want to just make the comment that
And I appreciate the administration bringing the budget of Jack Hopkins up to five hundred thousand
dollars several years ago But because of inflation, we're already it's already being eroded, of course
and the needs continue to increase This is something I think we really need to prioritize is at least
keeping pace with inflation over time So I would just make that request the administration and my colleagues
Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm counselor Stasberg I just want to say that 30 years ago when I was
18 19 years old and And did not have health insurance Planned Parenthood was the only place that I could
go for basic basic care basic doctor appointments everything from things specific to my body as a female
to more general kind of
Questions and concerns and that was the only thing that I could afford. So I'm very pleased to support
them through through Jack Hopkins. Thank you Thank you very much councilmember Thank you, I will just
say it is a privilege and an honor for me to support Planned Parenthood And I will continue to support
the LGBTQ plus community as well. Happy pride month and Especially happy pride month to our trans siblings.
Thank you All right any other comments
All right. Will the clerk please call the roll? Councilmember daily. Yes Rollo. Yes rough. Yes Rosenberger.
Yes Flaherty. Yes Stasberg. Yes Piedmont Smith Yes Zulek. Yes, and sorry. Yes All right. Thank you very much
Next motion I move that resolution 20 26-12 be introduced and read by the clerk by title and synopsis
only second motion in a second. Is there any discussion? Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, I just wanted
to say that I'm going to vote no on this motion not just because of the late hour but because I believe
the the deadlines for
to receive the materials for this item were not met and I Don't think that we should make Exceptions
to our deadlines unless there's some urgent need and I don't think there's any urgent need for this
resolution. Thank you All right. Thank you. Any other comments councilmember Stasburg I just want to
say I'm also voting no for the same reason and I did speak with staff this week and they confirmed for
me that there's no urgency and handling this piece of business before we go on summer recess and
I am going to vote yes tonight because I think there are some community members who have waited four
hours to say their piece and I'll just add that Just I mean for whatever it's worth. This is not was
not a surprise and when it came to council we've been
Working on this openly talked about it in scheduling meeting. We received the first sort of draft of
this on April 23rd second draft on April 28th, so Don't think that violates the rules, but also shared
councilmembers who like Sam comments here Alright, so will the clerk we call the roll? Councilmember
Rallo, yes breath yes Rosenberger
Flaherty yes Stasburg no Piedmont Smith no Zulik yes, sorry. Yes daily. Yes All right, that would be
super. Oh, sorry. Will the clerk please read? Yeah
Resolution 2026-12 establishing rules and guidelines for alcohol permit districts the synopsis is as
follows resolution 2026-12 establishes rules procedures and public interest guidelines for alcoholic
beverage permits for which the city of Bloomington has authority discretion or influence to recommend
support condition object to monitor or otherwise participate in the alcoholic beverage permitting process
Thank you very much
I move that resolution 20 26-12 be adopted second. All right, I'll be super quick and then we can as
a point of order the gavel needs to pass to Yeah, just super quick Worked on this with ESD and and other
other council members just
Generally there there are a lot of different dispositions within Indiana code that allow for additional
alcohol permits whether those be riverfront districts Downtown historic districts and then there's a
recent State bill sponsored by our senator Yoder to allow Bloomington and I think another municipality
to have a couple of additional liquor licenses because the
metaphor of cart before the horse has been used today. We wanted to sort of separate two questions.
There's the question of whether or not these be established and whether or not they be acted on. And
then there's the second question of sort of, okay, and if we were, how would we go about doing that?
And so certainly not an urgent thing. So if the conversation gets too long, very happy to push this
off. But the idea here is just to shape the guidelines
upon which should the city have any say any influence and Roughly the process by which we will set these
guidelines both now and moving forward. So You I mean, it's it's fairly thorough fairly fairly
straightforward but the main sort of takeaway is this is that I think a lot of the concerns that people
would have should we in the future establish a riverfront district or or act on the downtown Liquor
licenses, I think concern number one is is would
would be the proliferation of bars as sort of one concern. And so we stipulate here that we'd like to
use these type of things, should we use them, for economic development. And so really thinking about,
you know, some of the things we were just talking about, you know, if we want more density of restaurants
along Kirkwood as one example, that we want local business owners to be represented so that, you know,
ideally avoid lots of change popping up to get what really are quite lucrative and very highly valued
liquor licenses. So we just wanted basically to set up the governance for what it might look like should
we act on any of these. So fairly straightforward and mostly also sets up a process by which we can
continue to evaluate this on a two-year basis. So I will answer any questions. You're in charge, mate.
Councilmember Stossberg So I have a lot of a lot of concerns I suppose with this and I guess the biggest
one has to do with with the discretion allowed in the evaluation criteria and How it could be interpreted
and then exactly like how this process is gonna go I feel like I could have really used memo from
about state law around this that Our counsel attorney did not have time to get because he got a final
copy of this on Friday and I So in terms of those concerns so evaluation of criteria support
for underrepresented entrepreneurs, how do you define underrepresented entrepreneurs and
And similarly, you can determine things based on restaurant quality. How do you determine restaurant
quality? Food service orientation. How do you determine food service orientation? I'm vegetarian. Maybe
I'm going to say only vegetarian restaurants get to be approved. And I guess I would just like you to
speak to those concerns about the amount of discretion that can be allowed within this document and how it's
phrased right now. I mean, I think as it's phrased, it's giving some
General guidelines for the types of things that can be considered It does not say because at the end
of the day, we don't give liquor licenses We we get to make recommendations about them And so this is
simply saying this simply saying that you know We might want to consider things of this nature and that
and again what's a little bit I think some one that one of the things that makes us a little bit complicated
is that there's three different types and each of them requires different
Sort of gives different space for council to act and so I mean the the answer to your question is that
it's it should be Interpretable and this isn't saying these are the five ways that we will give liquor
licenses Just saying that these are the type of things that I think would be valid things to consider
So it's general general guide it's not Biden binding, but what is the council role in actually doing
this then?
What's the council's role in in doing this whole process? So The the council can make recommendations
with which within each of these Dispensations so we can we can make recommendations We also can establish
a process by which ESD for example can set up written agreements And we approve those agreements should
they be should they be reached? I
So as a follow-up like if say there's the historic district I think is one of those designations, right?
So if the historic does a district is designated how many liquor lights it says does that come with?
how many How many times are we gonna have to go through this approval process? You said every two years
I've heard that every that they have to apply for these every year and like then we have to go like
what kind of time is that gonna take us as a council and
And and what does this resolution have to do with that because resolutions? I mean doesn't really have
teeth like it like what is this actually? Doing and then what what is this tying us into as a commitment
later? To the to the first question the timeline that I mentioned with two years is for us to review our
and guidelines around how we would like to what we'd like to prioritize in these so just gives a it
just gives a Guideline for us to bring this back up. We could bring it up whenever we want to In terms
of how many there are it's a different by district. I think it's 15 It's 15 for a downtown district.
I think it's also 15 for a riverfront district. Is that right? It's 15 for the historic district and
Riverfront and and so no we don't I don't envision that we would be you know, constantly approving these
it's not I mean a setting up a process by which we're setting a lot of different things that can be
considered and then I mean Ideally allowing ESD to actually run that process But they would then bring
by resolution to us those recommendations that would go to the ATC now the ATC could totally be
I mean just say we don't really care what you think and just give them to whoever they want Because
again, we don't we don't give out these liquor licenses But state code gives the sort of provisions
that we're allowed to make recommendations for how they're given out Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes,
I have a few questions as well I
So compliance with living wage ordinance, it says the compliance shall be demonstrated by an annual
affidavit submitted to the city. But compliance with living wage ordinance is actually done via the
LWO certification form that's on the city's website. So I'm wondering if you're envisioning a new process
for that just for this purpose or why it wasn't the same process that we use currently. Great point.
I mean, that's I think if that's the way we want to do it, that's what we should include.
Okay, but that's not what the language in the ordinance. We should change it then. Guidelines. Okay.
I have some other questions. For the staff review, it doesn't, now that you've talked about it, I understand
it's the economic sustainable development staff, but that's not stated here. So it just says staff review.
So it seems like it should be assigned to at least a certain department Yeah, thanks for that observation
Councilmember Rosenberger I Think 15 maybe a lot would fall into concepts that fill an identified market
need that I I'm guessing kind of like a grocery store obey or bodega might be
that any market, whether it be Trader Joe's, because we have so many places without a walkable grocery,
or neighborhood bodegas don't exist yet kind of thing. Okay, nodding yes. And then a little bit about
the... Not necessarily a preference for restaurants, but maybe I don't see a preference for more bar onlys.
And was that talked about because I kind of think like right now we have the problem where it's really
hard for a restaurant To make it without a liquor license but then I think too there are areas in our
city that people would benefit with a neighborhood bar that they could walk to instead of like having
to Drive or transfer, you know to a bar, I guess Yeah, and I agree I mean I think that you know, I think that the
Sort of two things. I think the prevalent concern that I'm trying to address is the fact that if we
were to establish one of these districts, that what they will result in is just a lot of bars. This
is not to say that we couldn't give one to a bar. I think it's just to say that I'm at least maybe in
a provocation and a way of starting a conversation saying that perhaps
in terms of economic development, it might be more beneficial for us to be thinking, at least prioritizing
restaurants. But I think your point is super valid. And that's why the language is really flexible here,
is that saying it's like, yeah, I mean, we may, from time to time, think about this differently. And
we might focus for a time on Kirkwood. We might think differently about Kirkwood than we might about
some creek somewhere. And I think that that's really the goal here, is figuring out a way to, in a very
agile way, just have a framework where we can continue to address exactly that. And I think we could
come back to this in, let's say, in a year if we were to establish these districts and say, actually,
we want to change that because we want more of
X thing, and that could be for a season, a two-year season, a five-year season, who knows, right? And
so that's sort of the goal here is to establish that flexibility. I have a clarifying question that
I believe is for Council Attorney Allen but might be for Council President Asare. These, the 15 liquor
licenses that we're proposing are directly tied to the historic district, is that correct? No. Okay.
Potentially apply to Bloomington. So there's a historic district that technically we could has been
discussions over the years that we could apply for that's 15 licenses
If you created a riverfront district, that's actually unlimited in the number of licenses Some cities
have limited that number and then there is the downtown district, which is the special section under
section 16.8 of Indiana code which creates two licenses specifically for Bloomington as special legislation
So those are the three most common likely applicable ones and then just in terms of our role maybe if
you'll allow me a point of indulgence to clarify is that the
Formal written commitment that's allowed under Indiana code that does become a condition of Receiving
one of the liquor licenses and it applies to all three districts Thank you any more first-round questions
Okay, we can move on to second round councilmember Stasberg I just have a couple of clarification Kind
of questions first of all around the written commitment piece
Councilmember sorry one of the things that you said was that you know, we could only recommend to the
ATF Should give it to you, but the ATF would approve it But if we require a written commitment Then
what would happen if the ATF approves somebody that couldn't fulfill the requirements of our written
commitment?
I would just say the way the statute is worded. It says it becomes a condition of approval So at that
point I do think the ATC would have to abide by the formal written commitment now that is not to say
that you couldn't put and I think that my understanding and Councilmember sorry can obviously or council
president. Sorry can can add more detail to this My understanding is that this framework is a little
bit broader than that. So it not only covers formal written commitments, but it would also cover
General requirements to receive our recommendation as well Regarding if there is no formal written commitment
and the City Council just would decides to weigh in with a recommendation The local ATC board and the
state ATC board are not obligated to follow the City Council's recommendation Wait say that again They
just wouldn't be obligated to follow if we don't have a written commitment if you don't have a written
commitment But then they don't existence of the written commitment which has to be approved by ordinance
is a condition of approval
But but like so I'm thinking about all of the discretionary pieces in here again So could all of those
discretionary pieces end up in a written commitment So so it's fairly broad the statute is fairly broad
in the written commitment statute specifically it talks about
Specifically acknowledging the nature of the business the type and nature of the business itself So
there are there's a lot of flexibility within that in terms of what would go into a formal
written commitment. I think likely you could Incorporate a lot of these into formal written commitments
if that's the way you wanted to go Okay, I have another follow-up to but I'll wait for a third round
I guess Councilmember Piedmont Smith
So I want to follow up on this idea of written commitments. So how would this legally work that we would
say they would fill out an application that we receive here at the City Council and then based on that
we would recommend them or not and they, sorry, I did read this but I don't recall this process of written
commitments being described.
I don't know that it's described in this particular ... I think it's alluded to with two different phrases.
There's a less formal written agreement, I think, in this particular resolution, and then there's mention
of, quote-unquote, a formal written commitment. That language, formal written commitment, is found in
Indiana Code. It's Indiana Code 7.131917.
And in that state code that's where it says as a condition of eligibility for a permit The applicant
must enter into a formal written commitment with the municipal legislative body Regarding the character
or type of business that will be conducted on the permit premises. And so that's the specific language
there And that that written commitment by Indiana code by that's that statute has to be approved by
ordinance specifically So
As Council Member Stosberg said, any of these criteria where they say they're gonna be a restaurant
and be family friendly and they have good workplace practices and they've paid living wage and all that
stuff, we could put that in writing that they have to make a formal commitment to? Yes, I think you
could, under the statute. Okay. Can I ask a question of,
Go ahead council attorney Allen. Could you also comment? Do we need to pass a do we by ordinance pass
each written commitment or do you establish the written commitment? And then and then move from there
The way this specific statute is written I is it actually says the municipal legislative body must adopt
an ordinance approving a
The formal written commitment so I you could read that one of two ways just frankly and I don't mean
to create extra complexity in a complex issue I think one, you know, we would look at how other
municipalities are implementing this But I think one way you could look at that is that there is a form
written commitment that the city applies broadly uniformly to every application or the other way I think
you could read it is that each individual written commitment needs to be
Approved by ordinance the most conservative approach would obviously be to approve each individual written
commitment by ordinance Other questions Councilmember Stossberg So this one is another what-if question
following along with councilmember Rosenberger's like comment about
in that conversation about prioritizing restaurant-oriented use over alcohol consumption-focused use.
And so, Councilmember Asari, you said, you know, not that we wouldn't give one to a bar, we would prioritize
a restaurant. And these do have to be, like, they have to reapply every year, right? Is that right?
And so, the what if is, well, what if a new restaurant opens and you would maybe prefer to give it to
a restaurant, you only have a limited number,
But there's already an existing bar, and there's 15 of them. So do you then take one away from the bar,
and then that completely shuts them down? What kind of security does that give any? I guess I just,
this feels sort of, it's that discretion thing again, and how that works legally, I guess.
Because we have all this discretion to do whatever we want and doesn't that like Lend some insecurity
into the entire thing to have so much discretion in this She made it a legal question. So to you and
then Just in terms of how it operates legally. Yes once you have now Riverfront district is the asterix
here because the permits are unlimited if you do create and Riverfront district within that district
any qualifying business could be eligible for
Permit the other ones are limited. So once those are gone, they are used up just like our normal Allocation
of alcohol permits which exist outside of this particular process And then there is a fairly robust
just frankly secondary market for those alcohol permits to be bought and sold there are limitations
however on the other districts in terms of how you can buy and sell those permits for instance the specialty
ones for Bloomington can only be transferred to the same
On the same location to a successor and interest essentially So it's not on the free market like the
general alcohol permits are where we see those being sold for $300,000 a piece or so Okay Other questions
Okay, let's go to public comment. I have another one to you actually I have another question if
If I can so one of the things in your memo councilmember, sorry, I'm sorry. I just called for public
comment Can we just go to well, we will do more questions after If anyone would like to speak on this,
please approach the podium. You'll have three minutes. Please sign in and state your name Hi Steve Olin
I came here for other reasons, but this is one of my favorite subjects so
I want to speak in favor of this resolution and endorse it heartily. It's been something that The council
was going to need to do eventually But I want to have to to maybe illustrate the task at hand. I want
to Call the statute. It's I see seven point one dash three dash twenty dash sixteen subsection G That
was the first
State law the one that mr. Allen was talking about. This is the historic courthouse square district
When it was first brought to our attention in 2009 it was offering 10 permits for Facilities within
500 feet of the district then it was 700 feet now. It's 1500 feet and 15 permits. So clearly the program
which was written for Valparaiso but Evansville and Bloomington it turns out quality
Qualify for it there the administration going through it The specific thing that I think would interest
council members is the line the legislative body Of the municipality in which the district is located
shall recommend to the Commission sites that are eligible to be permit premises The Commission shall
consider but it's not required to follow the municipal legislators body's recommendation and result
in issuing a permit under the subsection but the de facto standard is they almost never
turn late they never counter manned the opinion of the locality what this does is it introduces an extra
layer of administration what you have the power to do is you have to declare the building eligible for
the permit if the Possessor the permit screws up and you want to remove it You simply remove
their eligibility for the site and then they can't renew the permit
the next year so it adds a level of local control that is typically not available to Localities who
may be objecting to a permit and it allows you to direct the permit. I mean councilmember Sandberg and
I Believed even as far back as 2010 or so that the way to use those permits would be at least when it
was in the downtown was to
award the permits to nonprofit organization who wanted to to take possession of a building they could
then contract with a restaurant third-party restaurateur but the point being that the value of the permit
would accrue to say fixing the building and
We wanted it for something like the Waldron, but the Waldron found a permit through a different part
of state law So they didn't need these permits But that's an example of how the council could use these
permits and I certainly want to encourage you at some Sooner rather than later to write an ordinance
that lays out a process that people could follow So please approve this resolution. Thank you. Thank
you very much next person in chambers Please sign in state your name or alias and you'll have three minutes
Let's see if I can still spell my name. I am a tired mom of two young kids, so I empathize with y'all.
I'm writing in support, actually, I'm here in support tonight, of Resolution 26-12 as a co-founder of
Heartwork Brewing, a small, locally-owned, family-friendly brewery here in Bloomington. The recent and
upcoming closures and relocations of well-known Bloomington establishments reflects the growing barriers
independent restaurants and small businesses face.
These liquor license costs have become so prohibitive, sometimes at a quarter million dollars or more,
that only outside developers and larger conglomerates can realistically absorb them. This resolution
presents an opportunity for the city to level the playing field.
What a three-way permit would allow our brewery to do is expand our offerings in direct response to
what our customers are already asking for. Local ciders, wines, and canned cocktails often requested
by guests with gluten allergies or those who simply want options beyond beer. We would love to support
fellow local producers by carrying their products.
Heartwork is also situated within walking distance of high-density residential areas the stadium and
local hotels Expanding our permit to include wine and other alcohol more creates a genuine incentive
for neighbors and visitors to walk to our business rather than drive to a bar downtown a public safety
benefit the city should want to encourage a
I would ask that the council consider amending section seven, part three, which requires 60% of revenue
to come from food. I understand the intent, but I'd request that the threshold be waived automatically
for licensed local producers, breweries, distilleries, wineries, cideries, who already hold brewer or
producer permits in addition to the requested retail permit.
Our primary product by nature commands higher per unit prices meaning food revenue will rarely reach
60% even with a fully operating kitchen We're not trying to circumvent the spirit of the requirement,
but we can't really meet the math of it So I would suggest alternative framework potentially other criteria
as requiring being family-friendly or other defined kitchen infrastructure standards Just to make the
resolution more workable specifically for local craft producers like us. Thank you
Thank you. Could you give your name, please? That's how tired I am. Aubrey Williams. No problem.
Thank you. Call me if you need me. I love your dress, Aubrey.
All right, thank you. My name is Galen Cassidy. I'm one of the co-owners of Uptown Cafe. I'm here to
strongly support the resolution 2026-12 and the framework it creates for the city recommended alcohol
permits. Bloomington does face a clear mismatch between alcohol permit supply and our economic demand.
Our population-based quota system that the state uses does not match what we do here. It's based on
the census counts.
And due to our influx of students, faculty, visitors, and events, we have a far greater demand than
raw population numbers suggest. And as a result, the median price of a transferred three-way liquor
license has been voiced here tonight reaches or exceeds a quarter million dollars, which is dramatically
higher than any other parts of the state. I think as a reference last time I checked, Indianapolis is
around $50,000.
As a council the ATC requires that you approve These licenses to be utilized with or without a written
commitment I'll get into that a little bit later, but the city of Valparaiso has operated with this
as Mr. Volin has suggested for over 20 years. They've successfully operated with this and I think that
several things in the the language has been crafted from those Ordinances that have already existed
for many years in the state
We talk a lot about affordable housing in the city, but not enough about affordable entrepreneurship.
This resolution treats these permits as a public economic development tool rather than a private asset
by setting clear priorities for restaurant-oriented uses, local ownership, transparency, and accountability.
Through written agreements, it helps prevent speculation will make the permits more accessible.
I urge you to adopt this resolution. Expanding affordable pathways for the permits will give more young
entrepreneurs and independent operators a realistic chance to launch and grow their businesses here.
That's exactly the vitality we need through Bloomington. If you haven't heard already, you will hear
the argument against these, and I'll share with you what those will be. You'll hear from current permit
holders, which we are one of them, that this will devalue their own liquor license, which they will
say is their number one asset.
As a current permit holder, I'll tell you that's true, but to me, I'm sorry. If your highest asset is
a liquor license, it's not the unique service you provide, I think you're in business for the wrong
reasons. To me, this community needs to provide a lower barrier to entry for young entrepreneurs to
start their businesses, and we as current permit holders should not be afraid of new businesses coming
and going. I think, you know, 50 years ago,
My father started the Uptown Cafe. I think Blooming Foods was started. Runtsville Spoon, as well. Things
come and go, but we need to give them the chance to get going, and I think this provides a great opportunity.
So thank you for the time and the late night. Thank you. Is there anyone else in chambers who would
like to speak? Is there anybody on Zoom? Great. You'll be asked to unmute, and you'll have three minutes.
Please state your name for the record. Hey, good evening.
This is Christopher M.G. from the Greater Bloomington Chamber of Commerce, now at home, watching the
NBA Finals. I want to say the Chamber supports the direction of this resolution and appreciates the
proactive approach the sponsors have taken. We've had some wonderful public comment. Mr. Cassidy, especially,
was right on point. Since we have the horse and the cart already have made their appearances,
I'll say this, the setting the expectations now give the city a chance to be thoughtful.
before a specific applicant is driving the discussion. These guidelines matter as a tool to help build
a stronger commercial district. This may be the river district, the square, another place in the city
with the goal of more activity and reasons for people to spend their time in those areas. Our main concern
is just with some of the criteria. The guidelines themselves matter and the 60% food may be, you know,
prevent a back door
bar, but it also may narrow the tool too much. A broader non-alcoholic revenue standard may be closer
to the public purpose. It may require the business to be more than alcohol sales, but leaves room for
music, venues, wine bars, or concepts that have value to the district. We also ask the compliance standards
to be easy for ESD staff to verify and realistic for industry operations. The living wage is well intended,
but sector includes a lot of part-time tips, seasonal
event-based work, the standard might be too difficult to apply. So the same is true for the hours. Good
operators can be held to clear standards on noise safety, outdoor seating, responsible service without
forcing every business into the same model. As we move forward, we want the resources to sponsors and
the ESD staff. We want to support this initiative. We just want to make sure the guidelines leave enough
room for the kind of district building businesses. Bloomington says it once and I thank you for your time.
Thank you very much. Is there anybody else on zoom? any stragglers in chambers Okay, then that concludes
our public comment period now We are moving back to final questions and comments councilmember Stossberg
I guess I would want to skip any other final questions I have and and just kind of Raise making a motion
to postpone this and that might mean that we have to postpone indefinitely because we're right in front
of recess I think that
I would need to be reminded of whether we can postpone something over recess You can't we can just state
July 20. Okay, great. Um, I
Think that there are some section some some things that need amended I know that I'm really concerned
about some of the discretionary language without the definition. I really appreciate Miss Williams the
co-founder of Heart Worker and she emailed as well Thank you for coming to comment and reminded me about
that section 7 and I think that we talked about that last year with stadium district stuff in terms
of like how to figure out that balance of Basically revenues and and how that
That works in different ways. I also appreciate mr MG and mentioning the living wage thing and tips
because that was also something that like like I'm not sure how a living wage works with tips and Yeah,
and then councilmember Pete Mott Smith also mentioned a couple of things that Her careful reading thought
might need amendments. So I guess to that end I'll move that we postpone resolution 20 26
Until our next meeting on July 22nd Okay, there's a motion on the floor. Is there a second? July 22nd,
so that's our next meeting after a break. Yes Yeah, I was gonna say I'm happy to second that too, but
I do have a discussion Yeah, I'm happy to take it back one
Consideration is because I do think it would be nice to clarify some of this language. I think that's all fine
I'll just say though sort of the way that we were thinking about this is that the resolution sort of
is saying in broad terms and intent We still need to buy ordinance create the the the actual agreement
And so this this is sort of saying and this is you know generated this type of conversation It allows
us to say hey, these are some of the things we want to adjust and fix for the you know for the specific
What do you call it for the specific agreement? So so I'm happy to take this back and just bring it
back as a resolution regardless we're gonna have to bring it as an ordinance anyway, so you know the
other approach would be Pass it as is we get a lot of the comments and then we we go back with a with
a more official ordinance to establish the agreement so
I guess I would prefer not to do that just because I know some type of staff like they look at these
resolutions and then especially some of the things that councilmember Piedmont Smith pointed out and
the 60% which are really fixed in the resolution and so then for staff to go against that I think that
enters some awkwardness. Yeah, especially since as a legislative body I actually want the administration
to like I think I think that's a really good point. Yep. Great councilmember Rosenberger. I'm sorry.
Did you say
Let's not talk about suggestions now and do what to do. I'm sorry discussion on the table is postponement
Okay, I'm happy to postpone and I have suggestions that can be shared at any time Great. Thank you any
other comments Great. Well the clerk clerk, please call the roll councilmember Ruff Rosenberger yes
Flaherty yes Stasburg. Yes feed Mount Smith
Yes, Zoellick. Yes. I'm sorry. Yes, Daley. Yes Rallo. Yes Thank you that passes and will be Discussed
again on July 22nd our next regularly scheduled meeting and now I will hand the gavel back over to council
president. I'm sorry Thank you for all the public comment and the time
Being here. Are there any other motions? I move that ordinance 2026-14 be introduced and read by the
clerk by title and synopsis only Second there's a motion and a second will the clerk please call the
roll I'm sorry. I didn't um Yes councilmember Rosenberger Yes
Yes, Sasper. Yes Piedmont Smith. Yes, is it like no Sorry, yes Daily yes Rallo. Yes Ruff. Yes. All right
with the clerk, please read
Will you give me just a moment, please? Of course. Thank you Would you like me to read I'm happy to
read I've never got a chance to Say are we allowed to because I Think by ordinance the clerk is required
to read so see Respectfully, thank you so much. Yeah, just give me a moment, please and I apologize
for the delay
Sorry about that, ordinance 2026.
Dash 14 to amend title 2 of the Bloomington municipal code entitled administration and personnel to
require councilmember sponsorship of legislation under chapter 2.0 for the synopsis is as follows this
ordinance sponsored by councilmember Piedmont Smith adds a new paragraph to the Bloomington municipal
code section 2.0 4.2 7 0 to require councilmember sponsorship of each item of legislation except for
the annual budget legislation and appropriation ordinances
All right. Thank you very much I Move that ordinance. Oh, I move that ordinance 20 26-14 be adopted
second. Cool. All right councilmember Piedmont Smith. I Really don't have anything to add most excellent.
Do we have any amendments? All right public would you like to comment on this I Was so vehement anybody online
Fantastic back to council. Would you like to comment on this? Councilmember Stasberg I do want to comment
on this because we got some questions last time and I just want to emphasize that this is like the point
of this is to Not control the agenda not
Keep things from the public but when things are actually presented to the full council that they Have
already been through some element of vetting so that so that common questions are already answered within
the presentation and things like the amendment that I made earlier to the to the
Loans between utilities and ordinance 2026 13 might not be necessary because the language already Makes
sense to somebody who's not an attorney and not a specialist in the field so that then there Is just
less need for question and confusion because it already it has the clarity And so that I think was the
gist of what I wanted to say in terms of response from some of the questions that were brought up a
public mic last Thanks Thank you
Any other comments? Well, will the clerk please call the roll? Oh, council member Piedmont-Smith. In
the nick of time. Sorry, had to physically raise my hand, because I couldn't get to the button. Yeah,
I do think, of course, since I'm the sponsor, it's not a surprise that I support this legislation. I
do think it will help communication between the mayor's administration and council, and to address some of the
public comment we received last week. The commenter felt that sponsorship was a form of permission or
a gate that legislation had to go through. And I just wanted to remind everybody that we already have
the ability to not introduce legislation just by vote of the council.
The Council President does decide whether or not to put something on the agenda, but at any time we
can, there's always a vote whether to actually hear it. So I don't think this is creating any more of
a barrier to hear legislation than what we already have.
The other concern was that there are no standards for council members to follow when they decide whether
or not to sponsor legislation. They would just, it's just up to them. But I think since there are nine
of us and we all have different ways of thinking about things and different priorities, I don't see
the hazard. I don't see that there's more than a minuscule chance that,
legislative item will not find sponsorship. So I also don't think that that concern will come about.
Another concern expressed last week was the decisions about sponsorship are made behind closed doors.
And while that's true, there are many decisions along the way that are made before legislation is ready,
that are made behind closed doors because that's, we work on things, we talk back and forth with the
Mayor's administration and we talk amongst each other. You know, we make a lot of decisions before we
bring something forward and I don't think the public is losing anything by having a council sponsor.
I think as a matter of fact, they'd be gaining something because they'd have another elected representative
looking at a piece of legislation earlier. And I think that's for the good of the public overall. Another
concern that was voiced last week is that this would lead to fewer questions in the public domain during
council meetings. And I also find that very doubtful because there would be eight other council members
that hadn't sponsored the legislation who would raise questions.
And there are people like me who raise questions just for the benefit of the public, even if I know
the answers, much to the chagrin of some of my colleagues. So overall, I did, I just wanted to mention
those, because I did take seriously the commenter from last week, and I thought about these things,
but I still stand by the legislation as it's written, thank you. Most excellent, thank you, Council
Member Flaherty. Thank you, just a brief thank you to the committee and to Council Member Piemont-Smith
for sponsoring. I think, as noted in the memo,
I think I maybe was the one who initially brought this to the committee when I was on it last year and
we didn't Get to this stage of legislation at that time. So I appreciate their follow-through and I'm
glad to support at times Thank you so much other comments Tremendous will the clerk please call the
roll? Councilmember Flaherty, yes Stasberg yes Piedmont Smith
Yes, sorry no Daily yes Rallo yes rough Rosenberger no Thank you
Thank you so much that passes and we have concluded a marathon of Legislation. Hooray the last moment
now for public comment if you did not comment During the first session and you're like, ah, you know,
I really want to comment now. Now's your chance Did I think you did you come into the first oh no you
did okay, go ahead Sorry, I missed the earlier comment
I want to speak briefly about food resilience and some of the challenges facing agriculture today a
number of trends are converging Simultaneously the LFPA grants and other grants have ended affecting
both the food supplies at the local food banks and farm local farm income
Farmers across parts in the Midwest are facing critical drought conditions parts in Nebraska are critically
low with an estimated 25 to 40 days of water in reservoirs Because of inflation to increase fuel cost
weather Fertilizer supply disruptions farmers are succumbing to financial strain buyers of farm acreage
are agribusinesses set snapping up
land for consolidation implementing precision agriculture and narrow AI at scale to maximize shareholder
value many modern tractors now function as rolling computers and can
Include intricate interconnected fleets something I found out just today Farmers have found themselves
locked into proprietary software systems that limit repairs access to diagnostic tools and even control
over the data generated on their own farms
They increasingly depend on software controlled equipment subscription services also named known as
SAS and data flat platforms that move farm data into centralized corporate systems that degrade the
environment and transfer wealth to Wall Street. The ongoing right to repair movement illustrates a larger
question. Who owns the tools data infrastructure that our centralized food system depend on
who is controlling our food supply.
What are what are their goals a? Resilient alternative is to strengthen the local food system small
farms farmers market farm stops gardens orchards poultry keeping local processing and seed companies
and nurseries help keep dollars circulating locally while increasing transparency and adaptability
Maine has taken an innovative approach through the Food Sovereignty Act. It allows municipalities greater
control over local food system. It demonstrates that communities can implement policies that strengthen
local food security through sovereignty to retain control locally. The state of Indiana is making small
move in this direction through an expansion of the home-based vendor law that goes into effect in a
few weeks on July 1st. As Bloomington continues discussing sustainability, resilience, and economic
development,
us to consider creating a position for a food systems coordinator and educator Funding a local seed
bank supporting processing facilities and providing education on food storage Which is desperately needed
with the environmental political and technological issues. We currently face Thank you I also encourage
the council to consider integrating food sovereignty in the municipal code as has been done by cities
such as Waterville, Maine Thank you
Thank you. Thank you Anyone online for a final comment. Thank you all for being here council. Let's
move to Questions of council schedule as you hopefully aware we did not have a meeting for the next
six weeks Please enjoy that time. Goodbye. Oh Importantly, we do have a joint session tomorrow with
the with the county and
If you're able to make it, I know some of us aren't going to be able to make it But if you're able to
make it, please We just had quorum. So please go and go to the bathroom for council members who are
Not planning on not attending if you could please let me know Before you leave tonight, I'd appreciate
it And I just want to make sure to announce the fiscal committee meeting that is on Friday at 830 Thank
you. Thanks
All right, everybody have a wonderful break. This meeting is a George