WEBVTT 00:00:00.610 --> 00:00:10.448 - We're on district four. Thank you. So our agenda today, Jeff is unable to join us today. He's 00:00:10.448 --> 00:00:20.914 - at a conference. So, and it was kind of like a council discussion day anyway, so we can catch up on 00:00:20.914 --> 00:00:30.334 - it another day, which is fine. So my agenda looks like looking at this draft legislation. 00:00:30.658 --> 00:00:36.627 - And I kind of realized preparing for this meeting, we have this meeting and we have one more schedule 00:00:36.627 --> 00:00:42.480 - for this committee for the end of this year. And so I wanted to make sure that we kind of looked at 00:00:42.480 --> 00:00:48.273 - this yearly calendar that I've kind of been updating all along, kind of feeling like, okay, let's, 00:00:48.273 --> 00:00:54.126 - you know, every year the committee probably has to do certain types of things like review quarterly 00:00:54.126 --> 00:01:00.446 - reports and budget cycle and that sort of thing. So wanting to look at that, thinking about 2027. And then, 00:01:00.610 --> 00:01:09.283 - ending with whatever kind of review and discussion we need to continue doing for the budget presentations, 00:01:09.283 --> 00:01:17.550 - which we last discussed on September 4th. And I put those questions in at the end that we had started 00:01:17.550 --> 00:01:26.142 - discussing at that time. So any additions, any comments, any concerns? Great. Draft legislation first. So 00:01:28.290 --> 00:01:37.000 - I kind of put this together. I think it was also September 4th that we talked about making this committee 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:45.217 - a standing committee as opposed to special committee. And so this is, we could say the first draft. 00:01:45.217 --> 00:01:53.681 - I kind of, I mimicked a bunch of the clauses from when we did this with CCP last year and tried to add 00:01:53.681 --> 00:01:57.214 - some that were more specific to fiscal and 00:01:58.082 --> 00:02:06.597 - I did modify some of the charge, and I'm not sure if the way that I organized it in section one is good 00:02:06.597 --> 00:02:14.948 - for folks. On September 4th, you guys gave me some feedback about what you thought we maybe needed to 00:02:14.948 --> 00:02:23.381 - add mention of, but absolutely comments, questions, concerns. This is not run through our attorney yet 00:02:23.381 --> 00:02:27.966 - in terms of legal language and all of the pieces parts. 00:02:30.882 --> 00:02:38.035 - I just have two little nitpicky things. OK. I love nitpicky things. They're my favorite. I don't know 00:02:38.035 --> 00:02:45.048 - what I'm going to do if I ever don't work with you. I'm going to have to find one myself during the 00:02:45.048 --> 00:02:52.201 - challenge. So the third whereas clause, whereas the special fiscal committee was created by action of 00:02:52.201 --> 00:02:59.214 - the council president in 2025 and again in 2026. So it wasn't created again in 2026. It was renewed 00:02:59.214 --> 00:03:00.126 - in 2026. OK. 00:03:00.290 --> 00:03:07.323 - Which whereas clause was that, the third? Read it by accident and renewed in 25 seconds. Okay. Done. 00:03:07.323 --> 00:03:14.357 - What's next? And then the fifth one is just a comma. A comma. What do you want to talk about? In the 00:03:14.357 --> 00:03:21.390 - fifth whereas clause, fiscal oversight and understanding of the city's fiscal position is an ongoing 00:03:21.390 --> 00:03:28.702 - council responsibility that has been improved since the creation of the special fiscal committee, comma. 00:03:29.762 --> 00:03:42.132 - in the council. Perfect. Anything else? What about the, the section one, like the actual? The things 00:03:42.132 --> 00:03:55.113 - that actually matter. I think that it could be better. I appreciate that about you. Things matter. Always 00:03:55.113 --> 00:03:58.910 - need a good editor. And did I? 00:03:59.106 --> 00:04:09.227 - anything and I don't know at this point. I think it's the third whereas clause basically describes everything 00:04:09.227 --> 00:04:18.889 - of like the current charge. I did generalize the language a little bit because some of the actual charge 00:04:18.889 --> 00:04:27.262 - has specific years in it but I included everything that was listed in that whereas clause. 00:04:27.586 --> 00:04:36.973 - And so I guess I added the specific reports, quarterly year-end audit reports. And I added the debt 00:04:36.973 --> 00:04:46.455 - services. And then I included bond expenditures and bond project updates, because that was something 00:04:46.455 --> 00:04:56.030 - that we had kind of talked about last week, actually. And then added the long-term capital investment 00:04:56.030 --> 00:04:57.438 - project stuff. 00:04:59.042 --> 00:05:09.058 - because that was mentioned on September 4th. Modified the language about the elected salary framework, 00:05:09.058 --> 00:05:18.783 - added the outcome-based budgeting line in there, so when this was created, the task force was doing 00:05:18.783 --> 00:05:28.702 - outcome-based budgeting, and then added the potential fee and fine increases. Looks good. Looks good. 00:05:29.442 --> 00:05:38.402 - Would you like some hyphens? Where do you want hyphens? Do you want hyphens in section one? No, I was 00:05:38.402 --> 00:05:46.044 - looking at... No, it's in the list. Item B, long-term, should be hyphenated. Oh, okay. 00:05:46.044 --> 00:05:54.741 - Item F, budget-related, should be hyphenated, and outcome-based on item four should be hyphenated. 00:05:54.741 --> 00:05:58.430 - Outcome-based, and what was the last one? 00:05:59.266 --> 00:06:08.430 - the middle one, budget-related questions. And that's where, like, I'm not sure I love how the list is 00:06:08.430 --> 00:06:17.953 - formatted in section one, but maybe it doesn't matter that much. That's being it. In the editorial world, 00:06:17.953 --> 00:06:27.207 - there's a saying for people who are obsessed with pythons, like me, that's your heartbeat. Pythons are 00:06:27.207 --> 00:06:28.734 - readers' battle. 00:06:30.402 --> 00:06:40.983 - funny. The first argument David and I had ever was about M dash versus N dash. I can be the decider 00:06:40.983 --> 00:06:51.776 - on that. Okay. All right. Ridiculous. Well, I can define on that as well because sometimes it's three 00:06:51.776 --> 00:07:00.030 - and sometimes it's four. Oh my gosh. Oh, yeah. That is the first fight. Yeah. 00:07:00.354 --> 00:07:09.495 - Um, so so any anything else on the actual topic or discussion today? No, I I guess looking at e uh reviewing 00:07:09.495 --> 00:07:18.301 - progress of long-term capital investment projects. I mean there are I suppose short-term ones that might 00:07:18.301 --> 00:07:27.358 - be substantial as well. Okay, um that might suddenly be needed say right especially if there's some kind of 00:07:29.602 --> 00:07:37.601 - urgent thing. I don't think it's a problem, but I'm just thinking about, I would like to know about 00:07:37.601 --> 00:07:45.760 - any sizeable capital investment that's needed. I wonder, and this might be going like past the school 00:07:45.760 --> 00:07:53.679 - committee, but one of the things that occurred to me during the budget process this year was that, 00:07:53.679 --> 00:07:58.078 - you know, you guys put in that, was it an ordinance of 00:07:58.306 --> 00:08:05.561 - several years ago about expenditures over $100,000. Yeah. And I was kind of wondering, like, do we need 00:08:05.561 --> 00:08:12.607 - to review that first of all, because $100,000 isn't as much as it used to be. And then do we need to 00:08:12.607 --> 00:08:19.584 - expand that into other things, maybe like what you're talking about, just in terms of like a report 00:08:19.584 --> 00:08:25.374 - does need to be an approval, like a report and information like, but I'm not sure. 00:08:26.338 --> 00:08:31.985 - if the short-term stuff. So that sentence specifically, I added because on September 4th, and I don't 00:08:31.985 --> 00:08:37.522 - actually, I don't have written down who it was mentioned it, but I just have it in my notes, adding 00:08:37.522 --> 00:08:43.114 - something about long-term capital planning into the fiscal committee purview. And so totally open to 00:08:43.114 --> 00:08:48.762 - modifying that. I don't know if you were the one that mentioned that at that September 4th meeting or 00:08:48.762 --> 00:08:54.686 - if it was somebody else. It's a good idea, it was never an idea of us. I mean, it seems like we're all in, 00:08:56.066 --> 00:09:04.226 - on this that, you know, we just want to be made aware of this. There are expenses being made. You know, 00:09:04.226 --> 00:09:12.073 - of course, I mean, I want to speak for Isabel, but that one came, I think, you know, because it was 00:09:12.073 --> 00:09:19.841 - a controversial claim that I heard. Yeah. I'm not necessarily interested in inserting myself into, 00:09:19.841 --> 00:09:25.726 - you know, the process, but just being aware of it. Yeah. So. Well, I think 00:09:28.642 --> 00:09:45.585 - Ordinance 2018-10 was increased council oversight of expenditures over $100,000. I think we should put 00:09:45.585 --> 00:09:55.454 - it in the purview of the council fiscal committee to review 00:09:55.778 --> 00:10:03.774 - any such expenditures that were not in the annual budget proposal. Or the other part of that ordinance 00:10:03.774 --> 00:10:11.537 - was also transfers from one category to another between categories two, three, and four of $100,000 00:10:11.537 --> 00:10:19.378 - or more. I have my whole little PowerPoint on this that I can share with you from way back when, but 00:10:19.378 --> 00:10:25.278 - this seems the logical first place for those kind of things to be reported. 00:10:25.634 --> 00:10:33.075 - Although timing wise, we don't want to delay the full council knowing about these things. Um, if there's 00:10:33.075 --> 00:10:40.445 - not a fiscal committee meeting scheduled, you know, in a timely manner, whatever, whatever comes first, 00:10:40.445 --> 00:10:47.744 - that body should probably hear about it. So I don't know how to phrase that. Well, I mean, number five 00:10:47.744 --> 00:10:54.334 - is sort of the hearing committee for potential fee and fine increases. We could add in like, 00:10:55.202 --> 00:11:07.693 - or report expenditure approvals per ordinance 2018-10. Well, we don't want to approve anything. One 00:11:07.693 --> 00:11:20.433 - of the reasons why I said number five was serve as a hearing committee, I didn't necessarily envision 00:11:20.433 --> 00:11:23.806 - fiscal as needing to bring 00:11:24.098 --> 00:11:33.070 - advice or whatever, make a decision or a recommendation about any of those fee and fine increases, but 00:11:33.070 --> 00:11:41.954 - just be a place where staff can bring it first and hear some questions and get some feedback and have 00:11:41.954 --> 00:11:50.665 - a conversation about it before it goes before a full council, but not necessarily something that we 00:11:50.665 --> 00:11:53.278 - have to advise on or approve. 00:11:54.178 --> 00:12:06.105 - So that's what I meant by hearing committee. And I'm not sure if that is the best reason either, but 00:12:06.105 --> 00:12:18.268 - there's something that's better. And then we could add in any other like reports. I mean, we could put 00:12:18.268 --> 00:12:23.582 - that under the reports from, I'm not seeing, 00:12:25.122 --> 00:12:36.734 - it as its own item. I like the hearing committee concept, serve as a hearing committee for potential 00:12:36.734 --> 00:12:48.691 - application of ordinance 2018-10. Do we want to be that specific in the charge? Should we say something 00:12:48.691 --> 00:12:52.830 - more general like expenditures like 00:12:53.314 --> 00:13:01.196 - with large expenditures and like, categorize them differently than just the over a hundred thousand 00:13:01.196 --> 00:13:09.473 - dollars. That's twenty eighteen. And then that's just like, it's also limited to over a hundred thousand 00:13:09.473 --> 00:13:12.862 - dollars and like, specific capital. It is. 00:13:22.818 --> 00:13:37.045 - It's transfer funds. And yeah, new expenditures over $100,000. Oh, that are not already in the budget 00:13:37.045 --> 00:13:42.206 - that we approved for the whole year. 00:13:50.818 --> 00:14:12.620 - I guess I like to reference 1810 because people forget about it. Including myself, author of it. Or 00:14:12.620 --> 00:14:18.942 - we could say, or subsequent. 00:14:19.106 --> 00:14:33.014 - Legislation or something in case we do want to change that threshold number or change any details So 00:14:33.014 --> 00:14:47.198 - sort of the hearing committee for expenditures that subject to subject to thank you She said 1810 yeah 00:14:50.914 --> 00:15:01.393 - subsequent similar legislation. So that's a whole number six that I just added. Serve at the hearing 00:15:01.393 --> 00:15:12.288 - committee for expenditure subject to ordinance 1810 or subsequent similar legislation. Do I need a comma 00:15:12.288 --> 00:15:16.542 - after 1810, y'all? No, I don't think so. 00:15:19.234 --> 00:15:27.479 - there's a hyphen between 18 and 10. I'm good with that hyphen thing. All right, now realistically, do 00:15:27.479 --> 00:15:35.804 - we feel like this was like too much? Or are we good? Gretchen, how do you like? I think it's up to you 00:15:35.804 --> 00:15:44.049 - guys. It's your committee. Well, I know, but we've just been sort of going through and doing whatever 00:15:44.049 --> 00:15:48.414 - comes of interest. So if you're ready to codify that, 00:15:48.930 --> 00:15:55.232 - this is a good list and there's nothing out here that looks weird to me that we haven't already been 00:15:55.232 --> 00:16:01.533 - talking about so. Right. Well, it's like I'm asking you probably because it's, you know, city staff, 00:16:01.533 --> 00:16:07.773 - it's the controller who's doing a whole lot of it and then other departments who might need to come 00:16:07.773 --> 00:16:10.206 - in for fees and fines and other stuff. 00:16:10.530 --> 00:16:18.291 - I mean, I think when we come in and it's helpful, the sanitation was super helpful. Then it feels like, 00:16:18.291 --> 00:16:25.754 - okay, this is a time that's well spent and saves us time in the long run. Well, I certainly want it 00:16:25.754 --> 00:16:33.515 - to save us time. It feels more efficient for me, a good work session. Okay. Anything else? I think it's 00:16:33.515 --> 00:16:38.590 - very clear. All right. Yes, thank you. Sure. I will get with Jacob. 00:16:38.850 --> 00:16:45.858 - I think my goal in this is to get it, I don't know what the calendar looks like right now. I feel like 00:16:45.858 --> 00:16:53.002 - it's one of those times we're sweeping up real fast at the end of the year. But if we can, it can always 00:16:53.002 --> 00:17:00.146 - be brought as a resolution in the first meeting of January. I don't think that it'll come as a surprise. 00:17:00.146 --> 00:17:07.085 - I mentioned it a couple of times at full council meeting, but it was something that the committee had 00:17:07.085 --> 00:17:08.446 - been talking about. 00:17:10.178 --> 00:17:18.172 - All right, wonderful. Can I mention something tangentially? Yes. So, Section 1B receive quarterly year-end 00:17:18.172 --> 00:17:26.241 - and audit reports and report findings back to the whole council. Right. Have we done that? Have we reported 00:17:26.241 --> 00:17:33.936 - findings back to the whole council? I don't feel like we have. Just to put this out there, I think the 00:17:33.936 --> 00:17:39.390 - controller might actually be the better person to report those findings. 00:17:39.650 --> 00:17:48.527 - He would definitely just because he's going to be better able to answer questions. I was wondering if 00:17:48.527 --> 00:17:57.405 - I should say something like report findings as applicable or something like that. Because there might 00:17:57.405 --> 00:18:06.195 - be some things that might be so whatever of interest maybe that it should be reported. But about and 00:18:06.195 --> 00:18:09.502 - ensure the whole council is informed. 00:18:09.762 --> 00:18:18.927 - That's one of the challenges actually with reporting to council from committees right now is that officially 00:18:18.927 --> 00:18:27.503 - according to code, they have to be written reports. Like you can't just give a verbal report and call 00:18:27.503 --> 00:18:36.164 - it a committee report. It's supposed to be written according to code and that's something that's like, 00:18:36.164 --> 00:18:38.686 - yeah, kind of chopping block. 00:18:39.266 --> 00:18:45.562 - expanding how reports can happen. Because I think that it would be just as effective, honestly, with 00:18:45.562 --> 00:18:51.920 - things like this, especially because these meetings are recorded, to be able to be like, hey, on such 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:58.153 - and such a date, we received the quarterly report from Controller McCann. Things will look great if 00:18:58.153 --> 00:19:04.698 - you're interested in hearing the details. You can look in the packet and view the reporting. And I think 00:19:04.698 --> 00:19:08.126 - that that should be sufficient for that kind of thing. 00:19:08.226 --> 00:19:14.738 - I don't want Jeff to have to, or a future controller, to have to basically give key reports, one for 00:19:14.738 --> 00:19:21.250 - the committee and then one in front of the full council. I feel like that's a little bit much. Yeah. 00:19:21.250 --> 00:19:27.890 - Well, I mean, if there are memos or reports that we prepare and it's just for staff, there's sometimes 00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:34.531 - an advantage to the written report in that you can get multiple lines on it at a time, but from anyone 00:19:34.531 --> 00:19:38.206 - who might know something you don't know, it's in pieces. 00:19:38.882 --> 00:19:45.399 - it's there and there's something to be prepared for and look at later. I don't know. I always struggle 00:19:45.399 --> 00:19:51.726 - when we were just discussing this in a meeting with one of the departments yesterday, the challenge 00:19:51.726 --> 00:19:58.243 - of rooting out what happened at a particular meeting that you're trying to track down. What was, where 00:19:58.243 --> 00:20:04.190 - was this, which packet was such and such a record included in is always a Google and clicking 00:20:07.042 --> 00:20:14.362 - So I guess that was a minor little tiny flag wave that was written before and that sometimes that's, 00:20:14.362 --> 00:20:21.828 - when it's an oral report, then it's easier to deliver, especially if you're not really saying anything 00:20:21.828 --> 00:20:29.076 - such as, this looks good, or here's one cool fact or two cool facts or whatever of interest. But if 00:20:29.076 --> 00:20:35.454 - you actually want to refer to something later in a written report, it's easier to find. 00:20:37.602 --> 00:20:45.319 - So I don't know, we could nix that entirely because generally speaking, one of our committee, our general 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:52.891 - committee things is that we're supposed to as committees report things back to the full council, right? 00:20:52.891 --> 00:21:00.462 - So could I just like delete that and then there's like, well, I think we need to keep, so we have track 00:21:00.462 --> 00:21:06.942 - fund balances and number in C. I mean, that's, that's our quarterly reports pretty much. 00:21:07.234 --> 00:21:17.952 - sure and here in reports so that's that's good but i think we need a separate item for audit reports 00:21:17.952 --> 00:21:28.776 - and audit report findings um so receive audit reports and ensure and convey significant findings yeah 00:21:28.776 --> 00:21:34.718 - convey significant findings or ensure the whole council 00:21:38.754 --> 00:21:45.524 - But so you would consider tracking fund balances as the quarterly and year-end reports? Isn't that what 00:21:45.524 --> 00:21:52.489 - it is? I mean that's how we track fund balances with the quarterly reports. I mean I like some specificity 00:21:52.489 --> 00:21:59.128 - of receiving quarterly and year-end reports so then we know that there's those like four times a year 00:21:59.128 --> 00:22:05.182 - basically on our calendar which we're going to talk about next that this thing is happening. 00:22:05.602 --> 00:22:13.683 - So maybe we don't need both of those. Maybe we just need to receive quarterly and year-end reports and 00:22:13.683 --> 00:22:21.843 - then have C say receive audit reports. Well, I like the word track. It's a little more active than just 00:22:21.843 --> 00:22:30.003 - receive. That's true. Track implies you're reading them and questioning them. So I would say track fund 00:22:30.003 --> 00:22:33.534 - balances via quarterly and year-end reports. 00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:43.301 - And then we change B to just focus on the audits. Oh, wait. Does year end also need a hyphen, y'all? 00:22:43.301 --> 00:22:51.913 - Yes. Yes, it does. But we're just receiving audit reports, right? We're just receiving audit reports 00:22:51.913 --> 00:23:01.036 - versus tracking audit reports. So we're receiving. So B is. We're receiving and hopefully having explained 00:23:01.036 --> 00:23:04.446 - to us. So we're receiving audit reports 00:23:05.090 --> 00:23:13.388 - and receive our reports and convey significant findings back to the whole council is B and then track 00:23:13.388 --> 00:23:22.011 - fund balances by a quarterly and year end reports is C. Sounds good to me. Any other last little tidbits? 00:23:22.011 --> 00:23:26.974 - I guess that wasn't as tangential as I first claimed it was. 00:23:27.362 --> 00:23:35.592 - All right, I remembered that I have a couple of comments on all of these. So if anybody wants to comment 00:23:35.592 --> 00:23:43.587 - specifically on the establishment document and the kind of work of this committee, there is nobody in 00:23:43.587 --> 00:23:51.504 - the room. I see Kevin Keough's hand up. When you're able to unmute, you can go ahead and you'll have 00:23:51.504 --> 00:23:54.718 - up to three minutes. Yeah, Kevin Keough. 00:23:54.818 --> 00:24:01.571 - It seems like you're trying to invent the wheel. But I would throw out and suggest, and I have in the 00:24:01.571 --> 00:24:08.390 - past, establishing an audit committee. And there are best practices and a structure out there that you 00:24:08.390 --> 00:24:12.958 - can follow. There's the Governmental Financial Officers Association. 00:24:13.122 --> 00:24:19.295 - But specifically, the core roles and responsibilities would be financial oversight, audit management, 00:24:19.295 --> 00:24:25.528 - internal controls and fraud prevention, and public accountability. It gives you a structure, something 00:24:25.528 --> 00:24:31.701 - to look at. And I would encourage you to look at these best practices, these things that other cities 00:24:31.701 --> 00:24:37.874 - in the state of Indiana and throughout the country have established, just to give you an idea of what 00:24:37.874 --> 00:24:39.326 - the best practices are. 00:24:39.746 --> 00:24:46.738 - And specifically, I think one thing I wish the city would also entertain is to actually have an internal 00:24:46.738 --> 00:24:53.464 - auditor and to have resources where you can have more of an independent view when issues arise. So I 00:24:53.464 --> 00:25:00.523 - would continue to look, I think that would be value added and it would really present. And plus, actually 00:25:00.523 --> 00:25:07.582 - thinking about maybe having people from, independent people from the community to serve on the committee. 00:25:07.714 --> 00:25:15.925 - people who meet certain criteria. You always want to look at independence and expertise and just things 00:25:15.925 --> 00:25:23.820 - like that to look at. So I would encourage you to entertain looking at these type of best practices 00:25:23.820 --> 00:25:32.031 - and these other frameworks that are out there that would really help add value and really for long term 00:25:32.031 --> 00:25:36.926 - would put this together. Thank you so much. Great. Thank you. 00:25:37.890 --> 00:25:51.056 - It's like Eric also has to stand up when you're able to unmute. Go ahead. Good morning. Can you hear 00:25:51.056 --> 00:26:05.004 - me? Yeah. This is Eric Ost, and I want to echo Kevin's advocacy for an audit committee and for the general 00:26:05.004 --> 00:26:07.742 - understandability of 00:26:08.290 --> 00:26:18.802 - availability of the financial data from the city. I noticed yesterday and sent an email to the controller 00:26:18.802 --> 00:26:29.314 - who unfortunately is not here today that the expenditure data for the city that's published on the online 00:26:29.314 --> 00:26:32.190 - portal is now has zero rows. 00:26:32.322 --> 00:26:40.823 - This is, I sent this, there's several places data is published, but this is in the data portal. And 00:26:40.823 --> 00:26:49.494 - it used to have 32,219 rows, I believe, going back to 2014. So there's nothing as of yesterday. Don't 00:26:49.494 --> 00:26:57.995 - know what happened. The last update was November 12th, which was yesterday, but be great to restore 00:26:57.995 --> 00:27:01.310 - that. The other thing I would like to, 00:27:02.562 --> 00:27:10.760 - note is that our request is that when there's a report from a council committee this came up a little 00:27:10.760 --> 00:27:19.120 - while ago to and the report is to be delivered to the full council doing and writing is good and having 00:27:19.120 --> 00:27:27.720 - it available for the public as well but i think it's the committee's responsibility to write and represent 00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:32.382 - a report and not delegate the reporting of their business 00:27:32.898 --> 00:27:42.078 - to other city staff. I don't know if that's what was intended, but I think by the comment earlier, but 00:27:42.078 --> 00:27:51.705 - the city staff should be available to help answer questions, but it is not their responsibility to compose, 00:27:51.705 --> 00:28:00.796 - convey, or present the committee's business. And I would encourage you to facilitate participation of 00:28:00.796 --> 00:28:02.846 - the public in durable, 00:28:03.394 --> 00:28:11.492 - timely ways. Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comments? I don't see any hands up. Yes, what do 00:28:11.492 --> 00:28:19.590 - you want to follow up with, Dave? Because I just saw things that I kind of want to follow up with to 00:28:19.590 --> 00:28:28.169 - move over. Well, just on the topic of audits, you know, this thing for the council is on sort of a regular 00:28:28.169 --> 00:28:30.654 - basis, right? And we have one. 00:28:30.946 --> 00:28:37.185 - The State Board of Account does audits, but we also hire a dependent auditor every single year to go 00:28:37.185 --> 00:28:43.361 - through the required auditing process because there is already an independent audit process. And an 00:28:43.361 --> 00:28:49.600 - audit is an extremely time-consuming, detailed process. Yeah, I know. So I shudder at the thought of 00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:55.839 - a perpetual state of audit. Well, we just want to make sure it's being done. And I think the problem 00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:00.286 - Mr. Ost is describing sounds like not a controller error, but an ITS or 00:29:00.482 --> 00:29:06.792 - systems error and perhaps could be even related to the Microsoft outage yesterday. Yeah, right. A lot 00:29:06.792 --> 00:29:13.041 - of that was just... So just to be clear, so we've got an independent audit every year. Yes. And then 00:29:13.041 --> 00:29:19.228 - we've got to save it over the course of like months or even four years or so. I have no idea. Or if 00:29:19.228 --> 00:29:25.476 - there are regularities, take a little bit of audit. I know that when we came into office, we did not 00:29:25.476 --> 00:29:30.302 - make compliance with the SBA for quite a long time. We are today. Yeah. Okay. 00:29:30.594 --> 00:29:36.841 - that we're very aware of their interests and needs and trying very hard to comply. I thought they were 00:29:36.841 --> 00:29:43.210 - involved with the annual audit, what we did. There are requirements for the annual audit, but they don't 00:29:43.210 --> 00:29:49.518 - perform the audit themselves. I don't know if they, Jeff and Patty answered that question, but I'd like 00:29:49.518 --> 00:29:55.766 - they actually do themselves versus what they require to be passed down through a third party and post. 00:29:55.766 --> 00:30:00.254 - Do you know if the independent auditor takes information from the public? 00:30:00.738 --> 00:30:07.696 - In other words, so they open to any concerns from the public saying. It's a very prescribed process, 00:30:07.696 --> 00:30:14.723 - and a lot of it is random sampling. So they look through and they ask for random samples of things to 00:30:14.723 --> 00:30:21.612 - test, not just do you have, did you spend money the right way, but did you document your processes, 00:30:21.612 --> 00:30:28.639 - every single process you use in order to spend money. So that's what a lot of the audit time is spent 00:30:28.639 --> 00:30:30.430 - on is how documentable is 00:30:30.594 --> 00:30:38.425 - the work that you've done. Okay. All right, great. And so, and just one other thing. So when they're 00:30:38.425 --> 00:30:46.412 - done performing the audit, they may find irregularities here and there, they may be denying, you know, 00:30:46.412 --> 00:30:54.476 - this is, you know, they release a report, a rating of any kind. Yes, there are terms that they use that 00:30:54.476 --> 00:31:00.446 - describe, and I couldn't tell you what all of those terms are, but you know, 00:31:00.898 --> 00:31:07.397 - Significant findings and other things, and they have very specific meanings. They're not random terms 00:31:07.397 --> 00:31:13.959 - that correspond to, you know, you should fix this to, this is really serious to, this is going on your 00:31:13.959 --> 00:31:20.330 - permanent record or whatever, those types of comments. But I would, Jeff, would you be able to tell 00:31:20.330 --> 00:31:22.942 - me what those are, but we're missing it. 00:31:25.794 --> 00:31:32.047 - Um, and then I also wanted to mention, um, what Mr. Rose had said about the reports from the committee 00:31:32.047 --> 00:31:38.239 - is, um, I think that we were kind of talking about two different things, um, during that conversation 00:31:38.239 --> 00:31:44.735 - and committee reports. So my understanding are always written by the council member. Uh, generally they've 00:31:44.735 --> 00:31:50.806 - been written by whoever's chair of that committee. And then, um, I know that I, I tend to reach out 00:31:50.806 --> 00:31:54.206 - to my committee members to make sure that they approve. 00:31:54.402 --> 00:32:00.557 - what I have written, and I've had that from my colleagues as well, just to reach out to me to make sure 00:32:00.557 --> 00:32:06.890 - that I'm on a committee, there's nothing that's been forgotten. So that is not something that is delegated 00:32:06.890 --> 00:32:12.927 - to city staff, but we are specifically talking about those quarterly reports. And if the full council 00:32:12.927 --> 00:32:18.905 - had specific questions about the quarterly reports, then Jeff would be the person to answer that, as 00:32:18.905 --> 00:32:24.350 - opposed to somebody from, to this committee, because Jeff is the, you know, I'll be all of, 00:32:24.482 --> 00:32:35.095 - financial everything, at least for the city. He's pretty good. Do you guys feel like you need to see 00:32:35.095 --> 00:32:46.024 - this ordinance again before it goes to the whole council? Next, physical committee timeline. As I said, 00:32:46.024 --> 00:32:54.430 - this is something that I've been working on throughout the year just wanting to 00:32:54.594 --> 00:33:01.689 - you know, make sure of dates. And there were some things that I took off of here. I'm not gonna remember 00:33:01.689 --> 00:33:08.717 - what they are anymore. I'm gonna have to go to my other page. It was like controller dates. It was like 00:33:08.717 --> 00:33:15.406 - when we learn about our specific funding, for example, or when we learn if there's like additional 00:33:15.406 --> 00:33:21.150 - allocations from state based on actual numbers. And those are things that I took off 00:33:21.314 --> 00:33:27.929 - of this fiscal committee timeline because those aren't actionable things maybe for this committee to 00:33:27.929 --> 00:33:34.543 - do anything with. I took them off of that timeline and tried to just put things on and then the need 00:33:34.543 --> 00:33:41.158 - to add the things that are actionable. It's actionable in the early part of the year that we need to 00:33:41.158 --> 00:33:47.838 - start discussing finalizing 2028 budget priorities. Maybe I should add with the full council on that. 00:33:49.602 --> 00:33:57.595 - I think that we need to start, we need to do more stuff with the elected official salary framework and 00:33:57.595 --> 00:34:05.588 - the whole administrative response, making sure that that happens in a timely way so that it's actually 00:34:05.588 --> 00:34:13.582 - actionable. When we need to start supporting council staff with 2028 budget stuff, departmental budget 00:34:13.582 --> 00:34:18.238 - hearings, of course, when we need to do budget legislation, 00:34:18.402 --> 00:34:25.945 - and adoption of that, and then reflection, and then that elected salary ordinance adoption, and then 00:34:25.945 --> 00:34:33.638 - needing to add, when do we need to do audit report-related stuff? Those quarterly reports, and so some 00:34:33.638 --> 00:34:41.405 - of this was like, oh, I think that I should ask Jeff to make sure, but you know, quarterly reports were 00:34:41.405 --> 00:34:46.110 - April, July, October, and then the year-end report in January. 00:34:46.722 --> 00:34:54.439 - When do we want to have reports on bonds? Is there a particular time of year that we want to kind of 00:34:54.439 --> 00:35:02.691 - say in terms of expectations? When do we want to hear updates on bonds or some of those long-term projects? 00:35:02.691 --> 00:35:10.561 - Do we want to try to add that into a calendar like this in terms of formatting? Is there anything else 00:35:10.561 --> 00:35:12.318 - that we want to add in 00:35:12.930 --> 00:35:19.987 - also understanding that there are going to be other things that pop up, like staff lines come in and 00:35:19.987 --> 00:35:27.254 - talk to us about fee increases or, yeah. Well, Gresham, when does administration, do you have some sort 00:35:27.254 --> 00:35:34.381 - of calendar where you and the state and their company will need for various projects, or is this sort 00:35:34.381 --> 00:35:40.670 - of like, I want to say ad hoc, but do they just- It's not ad hoc, but sometimes their car 00:35:41.410 --> 00:35:47.134 - precursor things that have happened, like if you're requesting a bond for a capital project, you have 00:35:47.134 --> 00:35:53.026 - to decide at what stage of the capital project are you requesting the bond, like at what stage of design 00:35:53.026 --> 00:35:58.637 - or how much is the bond going to cover? Is it covering everything from just starting to think about 00:35:58.637 --> 00:36:04.417 - the project to doing it to waiting for an estimate, a design that allows you to get an estimate so you 00:36:04.417 --> 00:36:06.718 - know how much to ask for. So I would say 00:36:07.266 --> 00:36:12.382 - You know, it's not going to be the same schedule every year, because it will depend on all use of the 00:36:12.382 --> 00:36:17.548 - correspondence as an example, because this state funding opportunity popped up at the last minute from 00:36:17.548 --> 00:36:22.714 - the federal early foundation that changed the schedule we had planned for the correspondent. And until 00:36:22.714 --> 00:36:27.779 - we know the outcome of what kind of funding we could get from that source, we wouldn't know how much 00:36:27.779 --> 00:36:29.886 - more we would need to buy a quarter of an 00:36:30.370 --> 00:36:37.314 - So it's variable for the theater. Yeah, it's very, very, yeah. I mean, we do have to think about passing 00:36:37.314 --> 00:36:44.589 - it. If it's a tax-based bomb, we have to pass it in time for the tax to be enacted. But if it's a state-based 00:36:44.589 --> 00:36:51.599 - bomb, it doesn't really equal the same thing. So it just depends. Well, what we could put on the calendar 00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:58.543 - is a report on our current bombs. Yeah, that's what I thought we were talking about. Prior to the budget 00:36:58.543 --> 00:36:59.998 - approval. Yeah, yeah. 00:37:00.290 --> 00:37:07.654 - I thought we were talking about. I thought that was included in the budget that you guys used. We have 00:37:07.654 --> 00:37:14.875 - most of that. Yes, that's later on our agenda. We're going to talk about what information the budget 00:37:14.875 --> 00:37:22.238 - book should have, and that should be in there. Are we talking about quarterly reports? Because I think 00:37:22.238 --> 00:37:26.814 - Jeff sometimes does that a little bit at quarterly reports, but 00:37:27.810 --> 00:37:34.931 - Our meetings are just so many. I guess one thing to think about is how actionable will the bond report 00:37:34.931 --> 00:37:41.983 - be? In other words, how much change is there from report to report to report that's worth discussing? 00:37:41.983 --> 00:37:49.173 - Let's say you made this offer to a mortgage on a house. Your amortization schedule stays the same. Your 00:37:49.173 --> 00:37:56.294 - AIMA stays the same. There's not a lot of change happening there unless you're having a bond or a bond 00:37:56.294 --> 00:37:57.054 - drops off. 00:37:57.634 --> 00:38:03.576 - It seems like once, I mean, once a year. Right. And you're right, that could just be part of the budget 00:38:03.576 --> 00:38:09.405 - package that all federal council and everybody does. I mean, I think the thing that I, the piece that 00:38:09.405 --> 00:38:15.576 - I always feel is would be helpful for this group and certainly for us is when we're talking about long-term 00:38:15.576 --> 00:38:21.575 - capital planning to know, okay, these are the existing bonds. This is the bond we're talking about today 00:38:21.575 --> 00:38:24.318 - and next year, this, this, and this might fall. 00:38:25.026 --> 00:38:38.458 - So there's a sense of what's the long-term scope that we're looking at. That's the hard part about signing 00:38:38.458 --> 00:38:51.011 - one-on-one. Maybe in late summer, early fall would be the time when we go through the current bonds 00:38:51.011 --> 00:38:52.894 - and what might 00:38:53.026 --> 00:38:59.973 - Right. Bonds might be proposed and have that discussion like you just described. Um, if I'm Jeff, it 00:38:59.973 --> 00:39:07.058 - would probably be helpful to, uh, like, this is the general list and then we have the legislation list 00:39:07.058 --> 00:39:13.936 - general list to just identify, and it doesn't have to be part of legislation or something official, 00:39:13.936 --> 00:39:21.021 - but just what exactly is in each order of the board. Um, and so that he can practice that time and get 00:39:21.021 --> 00:39:22.878 - help from his staff too on 00:39:23.298 --> 00:39:29.405 - and not to reinvent that we are in trouble. I think they're not doing that. They take a long time to 00:39:29.405 --> 00:39:35.694 - put together and it's great information we want to share. It's just, it's cool. Yeah, I think that he's 00:39:35.694 --> 00:39:41.982 - already figured that out. So because he and I, he and I had talked about that early in the year because 00:39:41.982 --> 00:39:48.332 - this year we've had those quarterly reports each year. And before the first one, Jeff and I got together 00:39:48.332 --> 00:39:50.206 - to talk about what information 00:39:50.978 --> 00:39:57.646 - I thought would be helpful. And I've been very happy with what he's provided us. And I mean, 00:39:57.646 --> 00:40:04.960 - I think in the, I think usually the quarterly reports, at least the first couple have gotten feedback 00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:12.202 - and it's like, what more do you want? What less do you want? So he would definitely be the person to 00:40:12.202 --> 00:40:18.942 - make sure that like, cause whatever he's been providing, I think it's been pretty consistent. 00:40:19.458 --> 00:40:25.804 - And I think that it's been fantastic. Okay. So he and I might never just need to make our own calendar 00:40:25.804 --> 00:40:32.089 - that's very specific about on this day, when we say quarterly, we need this particular meeting of the 00:40:32.089 --> 00:40:38.312 - district committee once they're all on calendar. Right. Right. Yeah. So we don't have time, not just 00:40:38.312 --> 00:40:44.597 - this quarterly, but it's that this particular meeting is the one that's best. Well, when I have times 00:40:44.597 --> 00:40:47.678 - to collaborate with him about the meeting topics, 00:40:48.098 --> 00:41:00.738 - few weeks before. Yeah, yeah. Okay, but in July, you were saying to maybe add in July, like a yearly 00:41:00.738 --> 00:41:13.629 - bond rate kind of summary. Is that what we were thinking? Well, a review of current bonds and possible 00:41:13.629 --> 00:41:16.382 - long-term planning of 00:41:17.090 --> 00:41:25.708 - future bonds. I would call it capital projects because really, you know, there are different kinds of 00:41:25.708 --> 00:41:34.663 - bonds and also different ways of finding capital projects that it might just be an interesting discussion 00:41:34.663 --> 00:41:44.126 - to just keep an eye on what are the projects these are tied to. But it's a lot. I don't know what the best time 00:41:44.418 --> 00:41:54.961 - I would say July is July's peak budget book for next season. Is it helpful to do that before budget? 00:41:54.961 --> 00:42:05.712 - For us, I think it is. I mean, maybe you guys have the window when you're gone. So May, maybe? I mean, 00:42:05.712 --> 00:42:09.470 - I hate to speak for Jeff, but sure. 00:42:09.602 --> 00:42:29.634 - So review of current bonds and upcoming large capital investment needs. Yeah. Let's make a tentative. 00:42:29.634 --> 00:42:39.454 - Yeah. To see if JFS will be better early or late. 00:42:39.810 --> 00:42:47.154 - Because really, I mean, in terms of Jeff, it's, I mean, I can't totally speak for him, but he's like 00:42:47.154 --> 00:42:54.570 - the money guy, right? Not the project guy. So, like, he would know maybe how much money is needed for 00:42:54.570 --> 00:43:01.914 - anything, but wouldn't be able to give us all the details about the next thing actually is true. And 00:43:01.914 --> 00:43:09.694 - so that's. But I, but I was just saying that, you know, you're anticipating a large capital project for so 00:43:10.210 --> 00:43:22.383 - comes out, and you're going to know, so Jeff, because you're going to have to finance this. So you would 00:43:22.383 --> 00:43:34.093 - be a repository of that. I mean, I think we already know the general areas of what would be attached 00:43:34.093 --> 00:43:39.774 - on. I had some thoughts on some of these things. 00:43:42.210 --> 00:43:58.550 - Absolutely. Discussing and finalizing 2028 budget priorities. This may be a whole separate meeting, 00:43:58.550 --> 00:44:09.662 - but we need to change how we do this. Yes. This year just felt like 00:44:12.898 --> 00:44:20.217 - We had little to no impact. It felt like a worthless exercise this year, all the work we did to say, 00:44:20.217 --> 00:44:27.608 - we prioritize this and that, and the other thing, and none of it was a surprise. Almost all of it was 00:44:27.608 --> 00:44:35.143 - things the mayor prioritizes, too, and none of it really focused on because we prioritize this, we want 00:44:35.143 --> 00:44:42.462 - to spend money on that. And of course, that connection is what outcome-based budgeting is all about. 00:44:42.914 --> 00:44:48.688 - Um, so I, I just jot down an idea, um, and we can talk about this later too if this is- Yeah, I think 00:44:48.688 --> 00:44:54.633 - that we should talk about it later. Okay. And that may be, um, because I want to just follow the comment 00:44:54.633 --> 00:45:00.690 - on this, like, general timeline, um, and then I do want to try, because I feel like this is also bordering 00:45:00.690 --> 00:45:06.635 - into the last but not the agenda, which is how to, uh, like, the reflection on the budget presentations. 00:45:06.635 --> 00:45:11.390 - And I feel like that some of what you're saying is kind of connected to, like, how, 00:45:11.650 --> 00:45:17.759 - the whole budget process went. And we have one more meeting on December 11th, and that was also, I was 00:45:17.759 --> 00:45:23.690 - kind of throwing it out there, but what do we want to do on December 11th? And so maybe on December 00:45:23.690 --> 00:45:29.681 - 11th, we want to have a focused conversation about what you were just talking about. Like, how do we 00:45:29.681 --> 00:45:36.146 - want to deal with budget priority stuff for next year? How do we want to collaborate with the administration 00:45:36.146 --> 00:45:39.230 - around this? How do we want to collaborate with our 00:45:39.330 --> 00:45:45.776 - other council members around this. How do you want to center outcome-based budgeting and what you all 00:45:45.776 --> 00:45:52.095 - need for that in terms of, because during budget process, you need guidance and help from us. Well, 00:45:52.095 --> 00:45:58.856 - I have a few other comments on the timeline. I think a helpful thing for us to do in December is something 00:45:58.856 --> 00:46:04.670 - that we're working on with the department is thinking about if you were making a dashboard, 00:46:05.378 --> 00:46:10.951 - What would the dashboard measure? The dashboard, okay. So, and I have an example I can show that we 00:46:10.951 --> 00:46:16.692 - use for roads that track how many roads were paved in the past years versus how many we're paving now. 00:46:16.692 --> 00:46:22.376 - It has a little bit of information about the condition of the roads. And, you know, infrastructure is 00:46:22.376 --> 00:46:27.782 - an easier one to measure because you can do it in one year. And, you know, once you lay it down, 00:46:27.782 --> 00:46:33.411 - it's done. That's different than housing and homelessness, which are more mushy and we don't have as 00:46:33.411 --> 00:46:34.526 - much direct impact. 00:46:34.850 --> 00:46:41.526 - but I think if we could agree on what are we measuring in the areas we care about that we think that 00:46:41.526 --> 00:46:48.532 - can be measured, that reflects what the city spends money on, and that's a really important piece because 00:46:48.532 --> 00:46:55.141 - there's stuff that, if it's not tied to money, then it's something we're doing, but it's not really 00:46:55.141 --> 00:47:01.883 - part of the budget process. That would be a really helpful exercise, and we could probably just think 00:47:01.883 --> 00:47:03.998 - about the departments that have 00:47:04.450 --> 00:47:11.979 - Um, sidewalks would be a good example of one, um, that I had a similar idea and figure out what would 00:47:11.979 --> 00:47:19.730 - you want to, what would be proof that we were making products and it might not be outcomes in some cases 00:47:19.730 --> 00:47:27.260 - where things that are really vulnerable by your, it might be, you know, uh, leading indicators rather 00:47:27.260 --> 00:47:33.534 - than lighting in that case, but, um, you know, dollars invested or units created or, 00:47:33.666 --> 00:47:41.366 - I'm always worried if the unit's created because the people aren't actually living in the unit for whatever 00:47:41.366 --> 00:47:48.637 - reason. The unit is damaged and reprehensible or, you know, it's empty because for the leasing agent, 00:47:48.637 --> 00:47:55.767 - the unit's created can give you a false sense of, we did it one. In fact, if no one's in there, you 00:47:55.767 --> 00:48:01.470 - didn't do it. Right. Yeah. Right. It looks good on paper. Looks great on paper. 00:48:01.826 --> 00:48:10.592 - Did you want to mention other things with the timeline? Yes. Specifically for 2028 budget, we should 00:48:10.592 --> 00:48:19.531 - discuss early on in the year in 2027, council office staffing and whether we want to reconfigure who's 00:48:19.531 --> 00:48:28.384 - doing what work in the city council because that'll influence salary needs for perhaps council office 00:48:28.384 --> 00:48:30.814 - and clerk's office as well. 00:48:31.010 --> 00:48:37.514 - So we really need to make some decisions early in the year so that we can budget for that. How do we 00:48:37.514 --> 00:48:44.082 - need to do that in the context of, so if this committee is talking about the financial piece, I don't 00:48:44.082 --> 00:48:50.714 - think this committee necessarily has a purview over decisions like that. I hate to say it, but I think 00:48:50.714 --> 00:48:56.638 - we need another committee to talk about staff reorganization. So we need a staff committee. 00:48:58.498 --> 00:49:08.448 - It would be a special committee just for us. A special committee for staff. For maximum staff efficiency 00:49:08.448 --> 00:49:18.399 - or so. I mean, I agree this committee is not the one that the decisions, but those decisions will impact 00:49:18.399 --> 00:49:28.254 - budgets. I saw Jay break that down. I'm not sure it belongs on my fiscal committee timeline, but I want 00:49:28.770 --> 00:49:36.153 - Let's make sure that the Austin pin up, because that would actually pay any two council members, any 00:49:36.153 --> 00:49:43.828 - three council members and form a special committee. Doesn't take a president to make a special committee 00:49:43.828 --> 00:49:51.284 - council member, enough council member. It takes the whole council to participate. Have buy-in to what 00:49:51.284 --> 00:49:58.302 - that committee comes up with. Somebody can understand this. It would have a very simple thread. 00:49:59.042 --> 00:50:06.585 - Mission, you need me probably more than a couple times, Steven. Wow. And of course, meet with the Clarks, 00:50:06.585 --> 00:50:13.843 - Clark and with Jake. Yeah. Yeah. And for any proposals, when I was counsel, I think the whole council 00:50:13.843 --> 00:50:20.674 - needs to accept what kind of staff you have. I mean, these committees tend to be like fractals, 00:50:20.674 --> 00:50:25.726 - you know, they just go on forever. Steve would love them, Steve Nolan. 00:50:25.954 --> 00:50:33.387 - I know that's why I said I hate to say this, but that's amazing. Well, Steve's at home going, yeah. 00:50:33.387 --> 00:50:40.968 - You know, an ad hoc community. An ad hoc community. We're going to have public comment in it. This is 00:50:40.968 --> 00:50:48.475 - in public. This is about the scheduling of a separate committee. True, yeah. It wouldn't start until 00:50:48.475 --> 00:50:54.718 - January, at least. Go for it. Well, you just actually answered my question. Oh, OK. 00:50:55.426 --> 00:51:04.919 - Yeah. That was the early part of that was in January. Yeah. I missed you saying that part. I was just 00:51:04.919 --> 00:51:14.412 - listening and thinking. Yeah. It would be a January, February thing probably amongst the figuring out 00:51:14.412 --> 00:51:22.974 - budget priorities and early budget stuff. Thank you. Yeah. Did you have something else too? 00:51:25.122 --> 00:51:33.126 - Not necessary now, we can wait, it's fine. Okay, okay. And then the other thing on the timeline, revisit, 00:51:33.126 --> 00:51:40.904 - revise, elected official salary framework. Yeah. That framework, once we have the additional data that 00:51:40.904 --> 00:51:48.153 - we're requesting staff to get, and we incorporate that into our framework, the framework. Wait, 00:51:48.153 --> 00:51:54.270 - what was that? The framework needs to be accepted by the whole council, I think. 00:51:54.498 --> 00:52:05.424 - Yes. Before we then apply it to get salaries for 28. Yes. So that should probably be written in this 00:52:05.424 --> 00:52:16.459 - timeline that now goes to the full council. Because this kind of implies that we just created in part 00:52:16.459 --> 00:52:20.894 - of the. I think when I wrote that, I was 00:52:21.314 --> 00:52:31.588 - kind of putting it on like an internal timeline that we need to have a meeting talking about this in 00:52:31.588 --> 00:52:41.963 - February. That was the purpose of not putting it there. As a phase two, we're going to make decisions 00:52:41.963 --> 00:52:49.694 - about it. But we can put in June, I'll say June, to elected official salary 00:52:50.658 --> 00:53:02.745 - framework approval by a full council. So final draft elected official salary framework approval by council. 00:53:02.745 --> 00:53:14.048 - So then, so what I was talking about this with a couple of people, if we don't figure that out early 00:53:14.048 --> 00:53:16.286 - enough in the year, 00:53:16.738 --> 00:53:25.488 - then if there are significant changes to any of those salaries, you can't really do them because the 00:53:25.488 --> 00:53:34.324 - budget is already set. This is my point. Yeah. We've got to figure it out early enough so that it can 00:53:34.324 --> 00:53:42.987 - actually be worked into the salary personnel piece. That's why I was like, okay, we've got to start 00:53:42.987 --> 00:53:46.366 - talking about it pretty early and then 00:53:48.706 --> 00:53:59.881 - Yes, we do need to have the framework approved. I mean, not necessarily the actual, that's the next 00:53:59.881 --> 00:54:11.279 - year group, just the framework concept. Yeah. So I added that into June, final draft approval by full 00:54:11.279 --> 00:54:18.654 - council at the latest in June. And will you please make sure that 00:54:19.394 --> 00:54:29.629 - Jake knows what additional information we were seeking. Before I get up, I will get in your calendar 00:54:29.629 --> 00:54:40.574 - and make an appointment with you and we can talk about that. That's great. Other things about the timeline. 00:54:40.574 --> 00:54:44.222 - Any public comment on the timeline? 00:54:50.978 --> 00:54:57.551 - Kevin Keoghan, you've been talking a lot about quite a few things, but the Controllers October 30th 00:54:57.551 --> 00:55:04.519 - debt presentation and the narrow five to two approval of the November 4th general obligation bond package 00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:11.552 - really illustrates a challenging reality. The capital assets management, along with that approval process, 00:55:11.552 --> 00:55:15.102 - is exceedingly difficult for the public to understand 00:55:15.202 --> 00:55:21.665 - and fails to advance transparency and strains the council's capacity to exercise informed oversight. 00:55:21.665 --> 00:55:28.000 - The October 30th debt slide deck presented isolated totals across separate categories to go bonds, 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:34.719 - TIF debt, utility revenues and leases without a unified consolidated summary table of the total citywide 00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:41.950 - outstanding principal balances, along with the schedule of annual debt service that goes out to complete payout. 00:55:42.114 --> 00:55:50.214 - Transparency requires the taxpayer can readily see a long-term liabilities law. It's not just receiving 00:55:50.214 --> 00:55:58.080 - an inventory of debts along these titles funds. Also by shaving that borrowing amount down to 6,868, 00:55:58.080 --> 00:56:06.492 - it's just 664 below the state statutory control project threshold. The administration bypassed the petition 00:56:06.492 --> 00:56:11.710 - and remonstrant and potential referendum procedures established by 00:56:11.810 --> 00:56:19.145 - the General Assembly. Utilizing these technical ceilings to sidestep a public referendum and scrutiny 00:56:19.145 --> 00:56:26.695 - sends a message that maybe, you know, something else going on. Members were forced to this unintentional 00:56:26.695 --> 00:56:34.101 - all or nothing vote bundle package for the emergency $2.5 million fire truck, along with broadly scope 00:56:34.101 --> 00:56:39.710 - shifting transparent transportation designs. And Councilmember Flaherty noted 00:56:39.842 --> 00:56:47.059 - when opposing the final ordinance, that these commitments requiring the project scopes went unfulfilled 00:56:47.059 --> 00:56:54.277 - after the appropriation, leaving the council entirely out of the picture. Does this really build trust? 00:56:54.277 --> 00:57:01.702 - And to fix this, I think, again, I keep saying this, I'm like a broken record, aligning the GFOA's aligned 00:57:01.702 --> 00:57:08.781 - standards, like Fisher's is a good example. In Indiana, it's not that far away from here, and they do 00:57:08.781 --> 00:57:09.822 - publish there. 00:57:10.178 --> 00:57:16.768 - But it gives a clear picture about their reserve policies, their post-approval tracking dashboards. 00:57:16.768 --> 00:57:23.359 - There are best practices and frameworks available. I guess until this data is accessible and powers 00:57:23.359 --> 00:57:29.949 - both the public and the council to understand the full trade-offs of capital borrowing and our debt 00:57:29.949 --> 00:57:37.000 - approval process, it kind of remains an exercise in its compliance rather than a genuine fiscal democracy. 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:39.966 - Anyway, that's my thoughts today. Thank you. 00:57:41.090 --> 00:57:48.434 - Thank you. To alert you all, it's 928. I don't think there's another meeting, but it looks like you 00:57:48.434 --> 00:57:55.925 - all might have another topic of discussion. Yeah. Let's go ahead and have Eric go, and we're probably 00:57:55.925 --> 00:58:03.342 - going to have to... Good morning. This is Eric again. I just want to... Can you hear me? Yeah. Okay. 00:58:03.342 --> 00:58:10.686 - I just want to echo Kevin's advocacy for... Hang on, just a second. I need a... We just lost forum. 00:58:11.234 --> 00:58:32.453 - Okay, thank you The city of Fishers publishes a capital improvement Prospectus that has clearly defined 00:58:32.453 --> 00:58:41.022 - expenditures for all I think it's all but 00:58:41.186 --> 00:58:48.526 - maybe it's not all, but it's certainly a substantive number of the capital improvement projects. I would 00:58:48.526 --> 00:58:56.146 - encourage you to advocate for and to endeavor to create such a reporting vehicle for the city of Bloomington 00:58:56.146 --> 00:59:03.276 - and have that updated. Deputy Mayor Knapp mentioned a dashboard. Dashboards are great, but the actual 00:59:03.276 --> 00:59:08.030 - data behind the dashboard is important as well, and to that effect, 00:59:08.738 --> 00:59:17.629 - The city publishes, I mentioned this at the council meeting, city publishes expenditure data at the 00:59:17.629 --> 00:59:26.698 - fund level, but it combines transactions so that if two funds contribute to the same expenditure, the 00:59:26.698 --> 00:59:33.278 - total amount of the expenditure is attributed to both funds, which is not 00:59:34.146 --> 00:59:42.400 - So I would encourage you to publish the apportioned expenditure for each fund so that you and the public, 00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:50.342 - we the public can track the fund balances throughout the year. I also wanna say that sometimes public 00:59:50.342 --> 00:59:58.285 - comment may seem like a burden, but in fact, you know, the government exists to serve the people. And 00:59:58.285 --> 01:00:02.334 - I think that this council is rather blessed to have 01:00:02.722 --> 01:00:12.525 - folks like Mr. Keough to contribute his expertise to these matters. Thank you. Thank you. All right. 01:00:12.525 --> 01:00:22.329 - I agree around 31. We try to make this, these meetings an hour. Dave. Could I just add one thing? It 01:00:22.329 --> 01:00:31.550 - was over a set of mine. Essentially the duties of the committee, section one, the last number, 01:00:31.842 --> 01:00:39.758 - five service hearing committee for potential fee and fine increases. I meant to say, I think we should 01:00:39.758 --> 01:00:47.598 - be thinking and hearing about revenue increases or any taxation revenues, something like that. So not 01:00:47.598 --> 01:00:55.975 - only fee and fine, but anything that we could do with revenue. Since we may not be able to do this committee 01:00:55.975 --> 01:01:00.894 - to know about. Like the DSS. So not just those associated with. 01:01:01.666 --> 01:01:09.224 - tax increases that the city council prefer? Well, we could, we can, you know, we could, we could serve 01:01:09.224 --> 01:01:16.855 - as a sounding board for those. It seems to me that we don't have taxes or any sort of revenue increases 01:01:16.855 --> 01:01:24.340 - that this committee would want to know about it. Um, beforehand, we could through the public here to- 01:01:24.340 --> 01:01:27.422 - Or decreases. A? Yeah, decreases as well. 01:01:31.138 --> 01:01:39.182 - Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. You bring it up before. That's okay. I'm just because of the time. I'm just going 01:01:39.182 --> 01:01:47.226 - to end as a suggestion on the on my original doc with this. I'm calling it. I'm adding to number five 01:01:47.226 --> 01:01:55.191 - and potential changes to taxation because I'm right. Well, yeah, think about that a little bit more. 01:01:55.191 --> 01:01:59.134 - Okay. Um, as usual in this committee, we are, uh, 01:01:59.714 --> 01:02:07.509 - running short on time because we have more to talk about than we ever have time to talk. So in terms 01:02:07.509 --> 01:02:15.458 - of the continued budget presentations, review and discussion, I think especially at this point, that's 01:02:15.458 --> 01:02:23.330 - a two-fold discussion of how it went last year and what our overall impressions are in terms of these 01:02:23.330 --> 01:02:26.494 - thought questions that I put at the end. 01:02:27.554 --> 01:02:35.246 - Did you feel it was particularly useful? What wasn't provided? What could improve next year? I'm going 01:02:35.246 --> 01:02:42.864 - to suggest on December 11th that we dedicate the whole time to kind of talking about that review, but 01:02:42.864 --> 01:02:50.482 - also talking about that budget planning for next year piece is how do we want to do it next year? How 01:02:50.482 --> 01:02:57.278 - do we want to deal with priorities? How do we want to elicit feedback from our colleagues? 01:02:57.634 --> 01:03:06.897 - how do we want to engage the public differently? We've talked in this meeting a lot about some kind 01:03:06.897 --> 01:03:16.439 - of a separate budget fair piece, and I know that Jeff is enthusiastic about that, but it's a big piece 01:03:16.439 --> 01:03:25.702 - of work to figure out how to do that. It's going to be a lot of work. Yes. Let me talk about that a 01:03:25.702 --> 01:03:26.814 - little bit. 01:03:26.914 --> 01:03:34.790 - just Jeff and I in terms of how that we formatted and somebody, I don't know, I forget who it is right 01:03:34.790 --> 01:03:42.666 - now. It's somebody who, I think he works for planning department that came from another city that does 01:03:42.666 --> 01:03:50.389 - some kind of a public budget fair. Isn't it Denver? No, I think it's in Texas. I mean, smaller town, 01:03:50.389 --> 01:03:55.742 - like not necessarily somewhere that we like recognize as a, you know, 01:03:56.034 --> 01:04:02.098 - but that it's, I think Jeff and I talked about this idea of having the different department heads at 01:04:02.098 --> 01:04:08.521 - the different table. It's kind of like, what are we spending money on and looking more at their particular 01:04:08.521 --> 01:04:14.705 - budgets, but that that's a heavy lift for departments and figuring out, like last time we talked about 01:04:14.705 --> 01:04:21.009 - it, it was kind of like, when would be a good time to do that in terms of departments? You know, anytime 01:04:21.009 --> 01:04:23.230 - you add something, it's a challenge. 01:04:23.522 --> 01:04:29.972 - I think that that would be maybe the thing talked about on December 11th, and instead of so much of 01:04:29.972 --> 01:04:36.552 - a review on what happened last year, more about what do we want to see after next year, which is kind 01:04:36.552 --> 01:04:43.131 - of the same thing and actually different. Yeah, well, it informs us as to what's going to happen. And 01:04:43.131 --> 01:04:49.775 - I'm particularly curious about what Mr. Keough said about there's such a thing as following policy and 01:04:49.775 --> 01:04:51.646 - practice, and then it's very 01:04:52.034 --> 01:04:59.949 - And if expenditures are just falling, if things are being engineered so that it goes out of reporting 01:04:59.949 --> 01:05:07.708 - or review, right, or depends on how many part package things going forward, you know, are we really 01:05:07.708 --> 01:05:15.855 - living up to what you mentioned about being transparent and having a proper review, right? So, you know, 01:05:15.855 --> 01:05:21.054 - if you're going to fall just below or require a note or something, 01:05:21.186 --> 01:05:29.002 - that, you know, and what did you mention here of expenditures or like potentially falling just below 01:05:29.002 --> 01:05:37.127 - the amount. We've seen this before in various purchases of property. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Because I think 01:05:37.127 --> 01:05:45.562 - that that is something I want to be aware of, you know, certainly, you know, and I'm not casting aspersions, 01:05:45.562 --> 01:05:47.806 - but this is right, you know, 01:05:48.098 --> 01:05:56.422 - So there's been further incentives for outcomes. Yeah. All right. So I think that we didn't really have 01:05:56.422 --> 01:06:04.585 - an institution of a 10 to 4, the item 4, we just went right into scheduling. So anything else for the 01:06:04.585 --> 01:06:12.989 - good of the border? And we will hopefully have a really nice, you guys are going to be here in December, 01:06:12.989 --> 01:06:14.590 - December 11th? Yes. 01:06:14.818 --> 01:06:24.830 - Great. Hopefully, Councilmember Flaherty is also able to join us. We're good. We're good. We're good.