- So implementation of discussion at first reading. So I drafted just a first proposal for how this could
- work, including procedure or first readings and then how to take the item up again for second readings.
- So I don't know if we can get that displayed or maybe it's not necessary.
- So there would be a first reading motion to introduce the legislation, then a vote to introduce the
- legislation. The clerk, as has been our practice for a long time, the clerk reads the title of synopsis,
- then there's a vote to adopt. Then there would be a staff presentation, council member questions, public
- comment, and here's where we need to think about this.
- My proposal was to limit that public comment to 30 minutes. And then I said no council member discussion,
- but I've talked to Council President Asari since then, and he was thinking that it would be beneficial
- to have council member discussion or comments, especially if people are thinking about amendments. And
- then there would be a motion to postpone.
- I'd love to hear feedback. I think council staff may have some feedback on this as well, so. Yes, I
- thought about this in preparation for today's meeting, and I think there are various ways that this
- can be structured. One option is to take the framework that you just presented, but to incorporate
- an alternative to committee of the whole within the main motion to adopt. There was some discussion
- about the committee of the whole during the last council meeting. It's kind of an awkward feature under
- Robert's rules. It's really designed for very large bodies.
- Um, and there has been, um, some guidance from the public access counselor, expressing concerns about
- noticing it, committee as a whole, under the indoor law. Um, but there is an alternative to it in Robert's
- rules, um, which is designed more for smaller bodies like council. And it's, it's called, um, informal
- consideration.
- Um, so at the point where the motion to adopt the main motion is adopted, um, there could, um, and if
- that passes, then there could be, uh, a motion to consider informally. Uh, the president could kind
- of cross that topic by, by saying something to the effect of, you know,
- I'd like to consider this informally or is somebody interested in making a motion to consider
- this informally? And then that presents a more relaxed way of discussing the matter too. Would that
- include, sorry, am I just blanking?
- Let's keep going. I'll let you know. It just left my mind as soon as I had the opportunity. So a council
- member at that point could move that the question be considered internally. And then at that point,
- you know, there's a staff presentation for the council members, their questions, et cetera. And then
- when that's concluded,
- or when at such time that a council member feels that it's time to move on, then a council member could
- make a motion to conclude the informal consideration. So then if nobody makes that motion to consider
- informal consideration, that means we're just not going to discuss it. If we don't have anything to
- discuss, we can keep moving on. Exactly. Like that. Because that was going to be my question about this
- whole thing. Is this opening up to us falling into a trap of,
- always discussing everything. Yeah, that's a good point. Right. So wait, I want to make sure I understand
- what Terri Layner was saying. So this would be, would the motion to move to for informal consideration,
- would that for after the motion to introduce the legislation? Yeah, so it would work exactly as you
- stated, motion to introduce and read, just like we've done now.
- Motion to adopt and then the motion to consider informally as a subsidiary motion. So it would be number
- three instead of motion to adopt legislation, it would be motion to consider informally. Is that right?
- No, there would still be number three and then the motion to consider informally would be between three
- and four. Okay. Why would we need a motion to adopt if we're just going to consider informally?
- Well, and that potentially is another option. There could be a motion to discuss or to consider. I think
- that potentially that could stand as a main motion and then staff presentation, council member discussion,
- public comment, what have you. And then potentially a motion to move the matter to second reading or
- in the alternatives, you know, you want to keep options open so that if there is a situation or like
- an urgent need to approve something at first reading, somebody could make a motion for unanimous to
- consider the affordance for adoption during first season. So maybe try to envision this as a flow chart
- where at different steps there may be branches with options depending upon how council members want
- to proceed. My only hesitation with the motion to discuss or to consider is
- You know, maybe, maybe quick bold and you have, you know, Something to add to this, whether that would
- stand as a main motion to support the discussion in that event. No, I don't have anything to add. Okay.
- So you want to leave room for a motion to unanimously move the item? That would be after there is discussion.
- I mean the one potential benefit of this motion to consider informally is it is informal. So there wouldn't
- necessarily have to be like time restrictions that apply to
- to council member comments, for example. I think one or two council members during the last meeting
- expressed support for having an informal discussion, like what was happening with committee of the whole.
- So that might be one benefit of the first option I described. I'm worried that,
- the more flexibility we give the council, the more confusion we create for both the public and for the
- staff who might potentially have to present the legislation. I mean, if they get all ready to present
- and take, you know, arrange their childcare and whatever, and they're there, and then we decide, oh,
- we don't need to discuss it for Syria. That's- Agreed. I thought about that. But my thought was, I think,
- well, maybe we have to,
- I think we would know ahead of time or a council member would know ahead of time if they wanted to have
- the discussion. Yeah, I guess. So in my brain, the way I was envisioning it, which saying it out loud
- isn't quite as clean as I saw it in my brain, was we would look at something, we would kind of know
- ahead of time if we wanted to discuss something and then we would let staff know. It would stop putting your pen.
- Oh, thank you. Thank you. We would kind of informally know on our own ahead of time. We sense what the
- bigger topics are that we're going to be wanting to talk about. And then other ones, I think we kind
- of know as a body too, which ones aren't going to be a big deal versus which ones are. So then we would
- give notification to staff that, hey, we plan to talk about it. But then I guess we would want to implement
- a deadline for when we officially have that, which does complicate it again. Well, I think it would
- have to be on the agenda noted somehow that we expect a discussion of the science. That's fair. Not
- just the staff or public also. That's fair. I think this will be a process of testing certain things
- and then deciding what works. But to the point you were just discussing,
- I think the president would make some decision and potentially prepare a memo before the meeting, like
- as to what maybe some expectations were, because some decision will need to be made so that staff in
- the panel, whether they should be present at first reading. And I think it also raises the question,
- do you want city staff then to
- be present at both first reading and second reading? Or is first reading largely going to be like renewed
- second reading and that's where staff make the presentation, questions are asked, and then maybe there's
- not the expectation that they'd be present for second reading also? Well, the whole point of first and
- second reading is that we have the opportunity to ask questions without
- bringing it to a vote immediately. Exactly. And then like, if we don't get those questions in writing,
- then really our only opportunity to hear it as a full body is at the next meeting. And so like,
- unless staff, it would be willing to provide like a full memo on like all the questions that were asked
- in advance. Those are, those are our two options. Cause that was probably attention. So during first reading,
- Council members ask questions after staff presentation. Staff then take those questions and then provide
- answers by a particular deadline back to council members, let's say by the Friday before the second
- reading meeting. Those answers could be provided by staff to
- to council members, and they could also go into the packet for the next meeting. That could be an option
- as well. Some questions might take more than two days to answer. No, I'm thinking, well, this assumes
- that there are like two weeks or more between the two meetings. But are we, are any of us willing to
- take a vote on something that we can ask questions the night of?
- No, I think staff has to be there. Okay, I would agree. Okay, I don't think there's a way around that.
- Okay. And just to go back, because you mentioned Committee of the Whole and that this idea would be
- important consideration could take the place of what we used to do with Committee of the Whole. As council
- member here who was on council when we did Committee of the Whole,
- I have to tell you, it was just as formal as any other meeting. It's not like we all sat in a circle
- and bounced ideas off each other. It was like, raise your hand, yes, council member so-and-so, go ahead,
- no, council member. It's not the formality of the process that's tripping me up. I've never been comfortable
- with the idea that we vote right after we ask our questions and have our conversation. I mean, I know
- we can ask questions ahead of time, but deeper things get,
- unlocked and dug up when I hear my colleagues asking questions and I hear their line of thinking, oh,
- I wouldn't have thought of it that way. So that's why I really support a discussion at first. So Hopi?
- I'm really, really sorry that I was at an MPO meeting that is still going on, actually.
- So are we debating whether or not there should be just council member questions or council member comments,
- or what exactly is the question on the table about how this should be? So just presenting two different
- options on possibilities for. There's two different options. Not actually three, probably more. Okay,
- what is the concern right now?
- versus like informal discussion. No, I mean, I don't think anybody's talking about brain committee.
- I don't want that. Yeah. So, so I think what Lisa was saying is, so if we look at our list here, first
- reading, after a motion to adopt legislation, somebody could move to consider it under informal
- consideration. Yeah, there's a thing in Robert's book. There could be a motion to consider
- Good question. So, like, instead of a motion to adopt, we could move to consider it. Now, a motion for
- a formal consideration is a subsidiary motion, so there would still be the motion to adopt. Is there
- any motion for it? What's the difference between procedure if you have informal consideration versus
- just the motion to adopt?
- Well, we already covered this. No. The motion to consider informally doesn't stand on its own. It needs
- a main motion. But in terms of how the discussion would go, how would that be different? Well, if there's
- a motion to adopt and then discussion, then arguably there's a need to be more formal in terms of
- time limits potentially on council member comments, et cetera. The motion to consider it formally is
- kind of, it's like committee as a whole that there are relaxed procedures. So then we're discussing
- that amongst us, whether we like that idea. So I'll talk with you. Well, and how we can,
- make it feasible for staff to know and the public to know whether there will be discussion first reading
- or whether they won't. Right. So coming into this, I didn't even think about, oh, maybe there are times
- when we don't want it because it's a straightforward thing. Yeah, exactly. We need to make sure everybody
- knows that. How do we decide that ahead of time and all? Yeah, is that something that the House of Presidents
- want to decide? Well, I think we can also like ask, hey, was there anyone who was planning on speaking on this?
- Well, during the meeting. Ask the public. Well, is the concern then like the idea that we could on first
- reading just motion to introduce as we normally do and then not have any discussion over it? And then
- if there's somebody from the public who wanted to discuss it, then that doesn't leave space for public comment.
- I mean, I guess I could just imagine like it going like this and it being something, say, like pretty
- basic from the controller's office. And, you know, the controller, maybe he's maybe would have to be
- there or maybe would end or maybe, you know, have a two line memo like this is what this does. And we
- often don't have any comment on those sorts of things anyway, or questions on those sorts of things
- anyway. So it'd be like, do council members have concerns or questions for this? And then if you don't,
- does the public have any,
- of any comment for this. And then that allows the public comment. But maybe, I mean, just because we
- as council members can ask the question or make the comment doesn't mean that we have to. I'm not cheering.
- I was waiting for you to stop talking. I was waiting for her to look over at me, but I was listening
- to you. It's just her face. So,
- In the past, when you guys have had discussions where you wanted to have that discussion on first reading
- or if you were anticipating something unusual in terms of presentation, you usually indicate or you
- have indicated like on the agenda or in the packet in some way to notify the public like, hey, we are
- anticipating some level of discussion here.
- So part of it doesn't have to necessarily be in your process. It can just be in the way you communicate
- to them and establish some basic, we're going to talk about this. We're going to talk a lot about it.
- We're going to have a whole bunch of questions we're going to ask of staff. And if you have any questions,
- make sure you bring them here. You can do it through your packet. You can also do it through your separate
- channels, your sub stacks and your social media, your sky writing.
- I don't know. But I think some of that is just, you know, when you're talking about staff not knowing
- or members of public not knowing as part of it is incumbent upon us to tell them beyond this process.
- I mean, because we could, my assumption after that legislation that we passed last week was that essentially
- everything for first reading now is going to have the potential of
- A discussion is going to have some measure of presentation. And the potential for public comment and
- that everything is going to be like that. And so then it especially is communicating public like even
- when an asterisk And and maybe that's maybe just an asterisk on everything that that could potentially
- be discussed like
- this could be discussed, this could be discussed, this could be discussed in terms of all of
- that legislation. And I mean, come on, we know, the public knows, everybody knows, staff knows, when
- there's gonna be an mayor knows, I care, when there's gonna be something on the agenda that's, that
- is interesting, that is some kind of like, you know. Sometimes things that seem routine, some, one colleague might,
- find something that is problematic that I didn't think of. I also looked at it the way that Hopi did,
- and I actually don't see a problem with just saying, we're going to have discussion as much discussion
- as we're going to allow discussion at first reading for everything. And then just say, oh, they have
- no questions. Go to the public, they have no question. Go to the comment, we have no
- That's true. Right, just automatically. So there's going to be a presentation for everything at first
- reading. And that might make things more just like clear to the public in terms of like expectations.
- I'm coming. This is what I can expect. Right. And I mean, it's not to be long. And that's where, like,
- when I was looking at this, I was like, do we want to put time limits on all of these things? Like,
- that's what I literally have written down. Like, do we want a staff presentation at first reading to
- be really short? Or maybe we want a staff presentation at second reading to be really short.
- and first reading to be longer. Right now we have no limits on council member questions in second reading,
- but do we want to put those on first reading? What I want to avoid, which I said last time, was I want
- to avoid two very long and very similar periods of debate, of questions, of comments, of public comments.
- Well, questions, I think that it's. Well, no, it's repeated. It's the same. It's like the same questions,
- the same like. Well, hopefully council members will get their questions answered. That's the point.
- Yes. We can also limit, we could do the same style of questions that we do during budget season, where
- every council member has a certain amount of time to ask all of their questions. And then if you don't
- get them in, feel free to submit them in writing because you will have another opportunity to get those
- questions answered.
- And I would also, one of the things that I was thinking in some of these first reading things, a piece
- of information that I might really want to know isn't necessarily a question I have of staff, but a
- question I have of colleagues. Like I read this, I'm not sure how I feel about this thing. I'm thinking
- of amending it in this way. Colleagues, tell me what you think about this, because then it's like, should
- I take this time and do this amendment that may or may not have agreement? And then that saves me time.
- I'm trying to call at least, you know, four or five other people in support of this amendment that I'm
- going to do. And so I wasn't sure I was kind of, I was questioning the no council member discussion
- because then it's like, well, like, and so maybe that's like, well, we have three minutes of council
- member questions or discussion or comments, because sometimes it's just a comment too. Like I was actually
- specifically thinking about Hopewell and then going, I don't think I have a question right now, but
- I have a concern that it's not a question. And so it's like,
- I kind of like, how am I going to address this? Because it doesn't even like, it doesn't easily fit
- into this. I think it would follow to have some other questions. Well, in theory it would, but we don't
- have to put, I guess what I'm saying is that when we have this procedure, it's documented at the meeting.
- So same council member questions, that's council member questions and comment. Sure. And it's a piece,
- you know, yeah, three minutes a piece, including any kind of response that we're asking for from staff.
- Wait, so we had, yeah, before you arrived, we had our question in the middle council member discussion.
- I had spoken with Council Member Asari and we also thought we should have discussion because of possible
- amendments on suging. So are you saying if, I think you raised an interesting point, like after the
- staff presentation and some questions,
- If I say, hey, I'm thinking of this amendment, what do y'all think? Does that go under council member
- questions? That is not a question for staff. Or it could go under discussion. I think it would. It's
- not a council member comment, but it is. I think one of the benefits of the way that it goes directly
- from public comment to a motion to postpone is that then council members don't get in the weeds potentially
- responding to public comment.
- So that's where I like Sydney's idea of going, well, it's like we do a budget time. We have these three
- minutes, each of us have these three minutes after the staff presentation to do whatever we want. Whether
- it's inquire, make inquiries with staff, make inquiries of each other, put comments out into the void
- and say, these are the things I'm making, like I'm interested in your, you know, like, I mean, if I'm
- the first speaker and I say,
- You know, and if I know going into it, I'm like, I really want to hear from my colleagues about this
- thing. Then I might go, Hey, I want to be the first speaker because after everybody, like when everybody
- else takes their turn, I would love to know a quick, like, yeah, I'm kind of interested in that. I think
- that's a terrible idea. I don't know. I want to hear more about it in terms of the details. Cause that,
- I mean, I'm not going to eat up a ton of that three minute time, but you know, so I like that idea of
- calling it three minutes.
- whatever you want, and then go to public comment, and then immediately go to promotion to postpone.
- Yeah. I think the other thing is like, since public comment is 30 minutes, you know, our time's 3.27.
- Our transition time's about 30 minutes. I like that we're on, I know, I recognize. 30 minutes is not
- enough for test fact. I think at first reading it shouldn't be. I like five minutes. 45 minutes is not
- too much. As long as second reading ends up being short. Yeah.
- Right. We can always try. Okay. My son reminds us to try to five minutes and if it gets obnoxiously
- long, then we turn it down, which theoretically then we're, we're, you know, in this plan and lingering
- questions that we have, we're putting in writing and then we're getting those addressed for second reading.
- So that should, in theory, at down second reading time in theory, in theory, maybe we could just accept
- like a six-month check-in, if we do five minutes in six months, the same body can re-evaluate, hey,
- is this working, is it not working? I suspect if it's not working, we'll all know before six months.
- I suspect that as well. You never know. The five minutes that you're discussing, that would begin with
- council's next meeting. Yes. Oh, yeah.
- And we would need to clarify that it's five minutes all in one go. Yes. And that once you have had your
- five minutes, you're done. If you only use two minutes, I'm sorry. Because that's too much for staff
- to keep track of. Yeah, that's not fair. No. So then just following through with your example,
- Then when the discussion is complete, somebody would make a motion to postpone the matter to a date
- certain. After the public comment. Yeah. Yeah. So after public comment, back to council. The president
- would say, OK, seeing no more public comment, back to council for a motion. Yeah. And then it would
- probably be the parliamentarian who makes all the other motions.
- to motion to postpone to the next regular session. You have to, in that motion, postpone to the next
- regular session. Okay. Yeah. Then at the second reading, are you envisioning motion to introduce and
- read? Again, so with the second reading- I think we have to- No, we have the motion to- Yeah,
- but you may, the presiding chair, in that case, I guess the president,
- would take up the postponed motion, and then the second reading would need to occur within that space
- too. I don't know that there would need to be a motion to read it again. That's what we've always done
- though. I put that up in Robert's rules, if you don't need a new motion.
- Okay, even though we've always, that's what we've always done at this point, like if something from
- second reading gets postponed to third reading, then we always introduce it again at the third reading
- time. And I guess that's, I don't know if there's anything wrong with this. I mean, this is not Indiana
- law, grammar schools are not. So if we have a new motion, we open it up to,
- a roll call vote on the motion, and it could be stymied, like the motion introduced a second time. I'm
- not saying any colleague would do that, but it opens that door in case somebody wants to respond in
- again. I mean, it might take time if for any reason staff wasn't able to provide answers in time, and
- there were important questions that were asked. That might be one.
- opportunity that we would have to continue it. Although you could do that after. Yeah. That's true,
- too. But I guess I more meant like for time's sake, if we needed, if like we know automatically, hey,
- we're not going to be able to vote on this tonight. X, Y, Z needs to be addressed. It might just save
- us some, but. Because the motion to introduce is debatable. If there's that issue, then anybody can
- say. Oh, yeah. We don't always do that. We did that last year.
- You know, another option that I flashed out also was to start with the promotion to introduce the read,
- a motion to discuss, which then would be seconded and voted on, and then do the discussion or whatever.
- And then a motion to move to second reading.
- or if a vote wanted to be, if a council member desired that it be voted upon at first reading, a motion
- for the ERS consideration or consent to consider the ordinance for adoption at first reading. So that's-
- I like that way better. Well, here's my question with that. I mean, can the motion to discuss the motion
- I don't know, I think so. So it would be in procedure of first reading. So it's the motion to introduce
- and read and the clerk reads. And then instead of having a motion to adopt, we have a motion to discuss,
- which is a different, I like it because it's a different signal to the public that we're not going to
- adopt this tonight. We're going to talk about it. And then everything stays the same, except instead
- of postponing, we're motioning to move it to second reading.
- Well, if there's a motion to discuss passes, right. What is a motion to go to second reading? It's just
- saying that it goes to second reading. Yeah, or maybe like move to second reading on a specific day.
- It's only we don't need to do that because it kind of automatically goes to second reading in our process.
- It's very similar to a motion to postpone it, except that when we postpone, we're doing not attached
- to adopting legislation. Because in the motion to adopt, we've already said we're going to adopt it.
- So right now, we're postponing a decision about adopting. But if we're only discussing, then at the
- end of the discussion, then we have to say, OK, when are we going to take up this legislation again?
- Well, we're going to move on to second reading. I feel affected for a chief at Markham what a second
- reading does, which is a motion to adopt.
- What do you all think? I would agree. So do you have any comments? No, I'm just confused. Sorry. Because
- at the beginning, we talked about motion to adopt and then motioning for informal discussion or whatever.
- So I'm getting these mixed now. Now I'm confused about the flow chart. Well, I think that everyone
- because it's the motion for informal discussion or informal consideration has to be underneath another
- motion. So you can't motion for informal consideration directly, but you can motion for discussion correctly.
- So discussion would have to follow all the other like Robert's Rules formalities, which is how our discussion
- normally does, but we're discussing instead of actually considering that question. So at the end of
- it, so when we have a motion to adopt, it's like, we have to vote on that motion.
- Like there's like a motion on the table that we have to vote on. I see. And a motion to discuss, there's
- nothing that we vote on. Motion to discuss is different from a motion to consider informally. Right.
- That would be the flow of that. Right. So like we could, because the informal discussion has
- to be underneath. That has to be like a layer. It's a flow chart thing. It's like it's been inserted
- under something else. You can't have it stand by itself. It's just so wonky.
- Yeah. Yeah. But the motion to discuss it, it can stand by itself. Okay. So why would we do like,
- you know, right? Yeah. So potential, I guess that could be. So why would we what? Why would we go? Okay.
- Motion to discuss that passes motion to consider informal. No, we wouldn't put that on, but we would
- just be a motion to discuss motion to discuss motion to adopt. Yes. Okay. Yes. All right. We need a
- flow. I feel dense right now. I'm very sorry. Okay. I get it.
- Oh yeah, there's a whiteboard. So where does that leave us in terms of if there is a situation where
- we want to vote on the document or on that legislation and first reading? Could we not move to adopt
- post discussion? Yes, that's what I was going to put that slow chart. Yeah, that's what I would say.
- It would be a motion to end
- that discussion and then move on to like that branch where the motion, that question is moved to a second
- reading or there's a motion to adopt for unanimous, cause you need the motion for unanimous consent
- at the first reading in order to even vote on it. All right. And that could be like, ah, so, so this
- would be like motion for unanimous consent with that first
- Yeah. But that would be like after public comment. So it's, I'm going to have to put this on the board.
- Would it be, I move to suspend the rules and I will have the council to vote on this tonight? I don't
- think the measure needs to be suspended. I think the vote would occur as long as there's unanimous consent
- first. Okay. And then the two thirds
- About on the actual word. So what would the motion look like though, like I moved for unanimous consent
- to consider this tonight. Yeah, I think it would be something to be to the extent of I know for unanimous
- consent to consider the ordinance for adoption, but I Okay.
- So I do want to check in with the mayor about this because it would this change leads to why staff have
- to be here. I guess questions of use, which is something we used to do under the previous years. But
- you want to weigh in on any concerns about that? Yeah, we do have
- fairly significant concerns about the expectation that staff be there twice, especially, well,
- twice period, but especially if these sort of prolonged on the spot, questioning and public comment
- periods on deliberation. So I guess part of the question is, does the council believe that it would
- be the exception to the rule that there would be
- a motion for unanimous consent to move forward to the vote, or would it be standard to go to second
- and have another full discussion at second? Because right now, we expect to be at one council meeting,
- and with exceptions, we go to two. You have first reading, and then it ends up going to three meetings.
- But this seems to pivot it to be, we always come to two.
- And that's concerning. We're maxed out and it's not going to get better. In terms of staff time, it's
- not going to get better because we've already said we can't hire any new staff with SDA warrant at least
- through July 27th, but likely 28th. Well, to answer your question, and please correct me if I'm wrong,
- that the committee members might say
- that it is the assumption that it would have two things. Then staff would be present. First staff would
- be present. Because of the way that things were written on the board. That's right. Is it OK if I go
- stand over there so that Al picks it up and I'll read them quickly? And let me say, this is my understanding
- of what it is I heard in a very short kind of.
- What you had first was a motion to introduce, right? A second motion to read by title and synopsis only?
- No, that's all in one. I was mimicking what is in the packet. So first it's read, or first it's motion
- to introduce, and then it's read by the clerk. And so you're saying a motion to introduce and to read
- by title and synopsis, which stick a pin in that. Right. After it's read, there would be a motion to
- discuss or a motion to adopt. Right.
- If there's a motion to adopt, you have informal consideration. Yeah. I can't read your writing very
- well, sorry. That's presentation, because that's within the packet. Fourth is staff presentation, council
- member question and comments, and then public comment. Right. And if we have a motion to discuss, if
- there's a motion to discuss, there's a motion to second reading or a motion to unanimous consent. Yes.
- You were writing fast. I was. And if it was motion to adopt, then we would have to motion to postpone.
- Yeah. Does that help? I think so. Cause it's like two alternate flowcharts and like which, which one
- do we want to do? I think we can do something like this in some form where it's typed up where people
- can see it. Yeah. Okay.
- So committee members, how do you think, how are you thinking about the impact on staff? Sorry, what
- was the question? Impact on staff. Yeah. I think that it doesn't make sense for us to vote on things
- that we can't get answers to, same night. I would like to
- figure out some way to be very, very clear to staff and respectful of everyone's time. I'm like, hey,
- this is the time about where this is going to be on the agenda. This is about how much time it's going
- to take. Being able to provide that expectation for staff, I think, would be able to help them prepare
- a little bit better. So yeah, for first reading, we can tell them.
- Look, it would be your presentation. How long that is? Plus 45 minutes, plus 30 minutes. Massive. Yeah.
- And I think we can even say, like, presentation should be this long so that you can prepare to fit all
- of this information in. And then, like, there's no new presentation. It's just a follow-up on all the
- questions that are asked during first reading. Right. Yeah.
- I said during second reading, the staff will present any new information including answers to previously
- asked questions. Yes, but I do see the potential for a lot of frustration just in terms of, hey, staff
- doesn't necessarily need to be here for four hours of discussion. So whether you could say like, hey,
- as soon as council
- common question period is over, like you're good to go because we have public comment and then we're
- going to make a decision one way or the other, but there will be no more questions asked. I think that
- might be another thing that would protect staff time a little bit, especially because when we have council
- questions and then public comment and then we go back to council questions, there's, I think there's
- some confusion on like the staff point of view where it's like, well, how many times am I expected to
- get back up there?
- That's true. They could leave after. So I have a question on that here. And we might figure out, we
- might want to limit. I know that we've been doing council questions and then public comment, then council
- member questions and comment. If we wanted to, especially to protect staff time, we could limit that
- to just discussion. So that way we could get staff out of there.
- You mean outside of reading now? Yes, I heard. Oh, I see with the idea being that we asked our questions
- at reading one and we submitted our questions and lingering questions to be answered. Yes. So then we
- should not have any further questions by the time we get to. Ask public comment and back to council
- comment section. Like I know that we've been past precedent have asked a lot of questions during that
- period. I think.
- the amount of opportunities that we're going to open up for questions to be asked in first reading versus
- like the time period in between, that might be an opportunity. And it might be a nice compromise because
- I do recognize that this is going to add a lot to stats on. My concern specifically with that is that
- sometimes during public comment, the public raised questions that we kept a lot about. Yeah, but that's
- fair. But nobody, you know. But they make periods.
- And they may do that at first reading. They may, but then they also may do it at second reading. Like
- there might be an entirely different crop of people who comment and are written entirely. And so that's
- like, I just don't want to limit that last part to, but I appreciate that. And I have other comments
- generally about staff resolution. Are you thinking that there might be situations where you would want
- to introduce an amendment at first reading?
- or simply discuss about possible amendments at second reading. You mean first? Oh, yeah. I was thinking
- that at first reading, you could kind of gauge whether there's support for an amendment or not. There's
- need for an amendment. And then that amendment could be written up and be in the paper. Okay.
- Any other feedback about staff time? Yeah, I want to say publicly I voted against this because I was
- concerned that the administration and staff had not had enough input into how it would impact staff.
- I think that it would impact staff. I have a lot to give a full presentation at first reading and then
- have to present new information because it does necessitate a whole second slideshow. It does necessitate
- a whole, and that is a work process behind the scenes that we don't see that they have to.
- So I guess, once again, I voted no on this because I have a real hard time asking staff to come to two
- meetings and I really have to wonder, if I read through the packet and I have questions at first reading
- stuff and if, and I just kind of,
- leave them and I guess I want to strongly take into consideration what Mayor Thompson just said about
- staff time and about how stretched staff are and throw out the possibility of not requiring them to
- be at first reading with their whole presentation and for us as council members to raise questions or
- concerns that we have that they can watch later, you know, the next day they can come in and see that
- portion on cats so that then they don't have to sit through however long and they can then gauge, okay,
- council members are concerned about this thing. And that only works if we are not voting on it at first
- reading. And so I guess that means like if there is something that seems like there might be unanimous
- consent to just get it done at first reading and out of the way that we need to work with staff on that
- and give them a heads up to do
- that like deep presentation. So I guess I would prefer staff presentation to be potentially optional
- at a first reading. And so, because maybe it depends on the complexity of the legislation too. I mean,
- anything that might, you know, think about like some PD from last year that might, you know, went to
- the rereadings at three, you know, to have, maybe we could have done that too, if we had had the first,
- you know, because there kind of, there were two times that staff had to come in and deal with anyway, right?
- So when there's something particularly big or complex, then maybe say, like, you know, we want that
- to happen. And that actually, that might help staff prepare for the fact that, you know, this is a big
- thing that's going to take these two meetings. Because otherwise, when we move something on the third
- reading, it's almost like, oh, now I have to figure out my schedule for the next week. Maybe I have
- to get childcare. Maybe I have to move something else, because all of a sudden, I can't see if it's
- what you did. I do want to say that I,
- I did reach out to the deputy mayor before we voted on this item of legislation last week. And she said,
- you know, the administration's aware of it, and it would create some staff burdens, but we're not opposed.
- It always seems weird to me that there's kind of dead space, you got the first three days, and complicated
- issues go to three anyway, so it may not result in more staff time. So I did think about this before
- I voted, and I did reach out to her, and I was reassured.
- Um, I, I don't know about, if I would agree to what, um, Hopi just said. I was out of presentation,
- so we would just be saying, I read it and here are my questions. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's
- the thing, like making meeting staff presentations. And, or I think.
- for the second readings, we don't necessarily have to have a presentation for the second readings.
- You know, even if it's following up on the questions we had, there's no reason to have to put those
- into a slideshow. It could be, you know, they might get up there and say, you had these questions, here
- are my answers, or I could also put it in that. I was gonna say, or they just submit them in writing
- and they're in the packet. And then maybe they're there just to answer any lingering questions that
- we might have when discussion comes up, but we're not putting them on the spot with the,
- stress of a presentation. I think it would now be more likely to go that direction. I think it would
- make more sense to have staff there, at least for the first one, just to be able to say, like, I don't
- want to box us into where we're all sitting up on that dais and, like, all of the questions that we
- have are based off of someone who can't be there to answer them. Yeah. It's very awkward. Yeah. So I
- guess I would reference, if we're going to pick one, maybe we could do a
- staff is here for night one and then we there's questions are submitted in the packet and then maybe
- someone could call in over zoom and and answer those and answer any supplemental questions but then
- they're not sitting there for like three hours while we try to figure out i was just going to ask mayor
- thompson what is y'all's position on your staff having those presentations on virtually versus in person because
- I feel like most of the time, most staff comes in person and it's only the consultants that do things,
- but I assume. Yeah. I guess my recommendation would be that you have the in-person staff presentation
- and significant questions at the first and that it's optional or TBD on the second, depending on how many
- questions there are that would address staff time. I have to go to another meeting that my public comment
- was going to be. This is also going to bring up concern for public comment. I've already heard from
- people which meeting should I go to? I don't want to sit through two very long meetings to wait to give
- my comment. Are they going to forget that I commented in the first one?
- Et cetera, et cetera. So I think some clear direction. And I mean, honestly, since there was no discussion
- at first reading anyway, maybe a discussion among council about how open they are to hearing these unanimous
- consent. It's not an exception to the rule. But if there are things that really don't need to sit, that
- they can just get approved.
- So given that, instead of limiting our council number of questions and comments at first reading to
- the three or five minutes or whatever, should we do that at second step and allow more time for comments
- or questions back and forth
- with staff so that then those things are ironed out to a high degree. So then going into second reading
- staff can feel comfortable that being there virtually will be satisfactory in terms of their advocacy
- for their. Yeah, that was the debate I was having internally, which is if we're limiting it in the first
- round, well, then we always have moving to the written
- Question and answer. If we're limiting it in the second round, though, because the time is limited,
- I mean, hopefully then, yeah, hopefully the theory is we ironed it all out the first writing. There
- shouldn't be massive follow-up the second round. Right. Ideally. That's the theory. Ideally. Or we go
- to another group, which nobody wants. I hear you. Yeah. I'm just, that was what I was winging in my
- mind. So I was kind of on that same page, maybe leaning the other way.
- So I'm sorry, I think I missed the very first part of what you said would be, instead of doing something
- at second reading, do it at first reading, what was that? It's the other way around. OK. It sounds like
- what I was going to say was that she would prefer the first staff presentation to be the more robust
- one, and the second one for them to be able to potentially show up online and not
- have to do as much. And so if they're doing more for the first one, then instead of having council member
- question comment time limited on the first reading, we should be able to take as much time as we need
- to, to understand and have that time more limited at the second reading. I think that makes sense.
- That's the process question right now. Like, how are we gonna present this for our meeting next week?
- Did we just have the one item for first reading and we don't have anything for second reading? Do we
- have any resolution? No, it appears that there will be a resolution plus the first reading. Okay. What
- do we have the first reading? A bottle of water. I guess the other thing that I
- that we should do next week to make really super duper clear to the public is that whatever process
- we follow next week is not a precedent for what might happen at the next meeting. Because I feel like
- there are way too many unanswered questions right now about how we should do this. Yeah, I think I'm
- not going to know until you start testing things. Yeah.
- Um, but like that, that's not it. Like I don't, I don't want the public to, you know, show up and say,
- Oh, well, you did it like this. So you're going to do it like this. Um, and I want to plan, but I also
- want the public to know that that plan might change. Well, um, it's, it's one o'clock. Uh, we have some
- other items on the agenda. What I could do is try to summarize like the,
- the flow chart and the premise about staff time and went to focus the staff time in the first reading.
- And I could draft a new proposal that I could send to individually committee members and individually
- reply whether I captured everything. And then we could share that with the council president
- or a plan for March 4th. Yeah. And I would say, March 4th especially, since it's got a whole lot on
- it, that we shouldn't limit time on anything, potentially, except for public comment in terms of, because
- it's large and there's, I talked with Anneke and Hanson yesterday, there's concern about availability
- later on for the consultant.
- So if we can get the bulk of things out of the way, then there might be concerns or questions about
- that might enable that legislation to be treated differently. Well, this committee will meet again until
- possibly after the second March meeting, right? It depends. We need to discuss that.
- But yeah, I can do a draft run it by all of you and just pass it on to the House of Person as this is
- our draft right now. We recommend using this for the time being, but we're still working on it. And
- we're also going to take feedback as to how things go using this draft. We may try it in certain portions.
- I found the words might pop out as, yeah, those don't look at all.
- We'll have to change this. Does that sound okay? I think we're trying over there. Yeah, the method is
- fine. But as long as like we're communicating with the public when nobody's saying, hey, this is new.
- I've heard that we're trying to get to the best rhythm for what works for everybody. And sometimes the
- only way you can do that is just test it. So in the packet for next Wednesday,
- I don't know if the agenda has already been approved, but I hope the agenda says something about there
- will be public discussion, there will be council discussion and public comment on this. I was going
- to ask whether it would be best to just clearly include that on the agenda. The agenda has been approved
- and we'll have to get back to you, President Osari, for confirmation of what he's going to do in that
- way. Thank you. Thanks. And then if we are willing,
- I don't think that we should bother even talking about that right now because we don't have anything
- up for second reading next week. Right. But then the next regular session after that, the only thing
- that we have up is hope well, and I'm not sure that so we want to help well in that way. Yeah.
- I mean, I think that we also, I mean, what we have that motion is suspended for a reason. So that when
- we know that we're faced with something that's like, that they can do something different. And I mean,
- we're both pretty big. So, uh, the voice is bad. The rules on the summit district, maybe as well, the
- structure of the debate. Yeah. All right. Let's go to the public.
- I remember, and I do apologize to the public who are not in the room, because we did have some things
- on a whiteboard that are hard to see, even when the camera was pointed there. But yes, let us welcome
- public comment on what we just talked about, up to three minutes. Well, yeah, I'm assuming we better
- do somebody else first. No, go ahead. Come on up to the mic. I want to message you, just for this point,
- First of all, as always, thank you. I love this committee because I think it's important to be good
- governance. So thank you for your work. My only comment is, oh, sorry. We'll never know. Carrie, answer.
- My wife and I live in a building. I like the direction that you're trying to do. And I like, I don't
- think this is your word in that. Don't put words in your mouth, please. Council. Options or something.
- The option, you should get the options for the council. I think that's a good idea.
- I'm mostly talking about the larger comments. I also think the comment that was on the screen, it's
- gone by now, someone named Eric about the public understanding. There it is. How will the public understand?
- I just want to say yes to that. That's important. It goes back to what they understand in the room about
- these arrangements across the protocol, but beforehand as well. Now, may I say humbly, the education
- needs to extend to council members as well.
- Not just those that are here, but others as well. Any group of humans doing work together need to have
- some understanding, and the council members don't always seem to completely know what the protocols
- are for something new. So I'm just saying, that's part of the education, in my one-person opinion. The
- only other thing I had a question about, there's more questions than I'm going, informal deliberation.
- There's some, I think, discussion on what guides that a little bit.
- beyond maybe a typical Robert Fields of Order kind of thing. And you've had documents, one from me,
- that I should happen to know about, which I don't privilege or prioritize. Don't Rosenberg do something.
- The protocols that you adopt for those discussions will be interesting and educational and a benefit,
- because they may make that time you're setting aside. Last thing, just about first treaty, second treaty,
- once we win, I can understand the dangers
- even from outside where I sit at the desk, about the time elements. And so the thoughtful options of
- when you apply what you have is gonna be so important, which you already know. So you don't get in trouble
- with yourselves and everybody else, including the mayor. And the other question was, and I'll go, is
- I didn't know whether at that stage where you can decide, okay, here's what we're gonna do,
- And I've lost track, and I'm not asked to talk about it now. But I don't know if somebody, that whole
- consensus thing, we're in a more public, and wherever you're calling that these days, I've lost track,
- as I admit. I'm teaching this semester, what is it called? Deliberation Center. Thank you, I just lost
- track, I'm too busy right now. Can someone say that's where it should go, at this stage? I don't mean
- to talk about it, I want you to get out of the next word. I just wasn't clear where you can bring that.
- There's probably a piece of ripped paper already says all about that. And that's what I'm going to meet
- with Ms. Crostham. So, so that you can tell me and make sure I have all the fair piece of paper.
- All right. Thank you. Any public comment from someone online? Any hands raised? I didn't see any. Okay. Yes.
- I had one more request related to your motions and everything else, which would be to separate that
- first motion, because right now it's kind of two in one. It's a little bit of a Frankenstein. I moved
- to introduce and have the clerk read by title and synopsis only. And it always struck me as an odd kind
- of combination. We don't have to deal with it right now, but I wanted to make sure that you heard the
- reference as a committee in the chair. I asked them to separate that first motion they tend to make. Sorry.
- It's just me helping me here. And I'm soft spoken and speaking into the table. My apologies. Yes. I
- just want to clarify something about conversation going by about what's on the whiteboard, that it was
- a visual representation of what we were discussing based on what is in the packet. And I can write that
- up. If you want, it would be probably easier to do that, to take a picture of the whiteboard.
- in terms of how readable the font is up there. Basically, in the packet, we have a draft procedure that
- was provided by Isabelle that has number three being the motion to adopt legislation. A trained learner
- said that there could be a different option there that we could motion to discuss the legislation instead.
- And then, if we motion to discuss, then we would have to motion to second reading or motion on unanimous
- consent after discussion. If we motion to adopt, then we have to motion to postpone. So it's the two
- treaties. And so I just, I hope that that like helps explain that a little bit more to the public.
- Who's like, what is going on on the whiteboard?
- The markers were almost out of ink, so you can really barely read it even here in the room. So I think
- the photo would not benefit, but we will convert this into an actual document that if staff is able
- to, we'll add to the record for this meeting. Let us go to the next item. Consent agendas. So,
- Attorney Bennett has kindly prepared some legislation that would add consent agenda to our regular order
- of business. So we can look at that text. And then I have some discussion points here on our agenda
- about the implications of having a consent agenda. So let's...
- Do committee members or staff or anybody have feedback on the legislation draft? Do I get to get feedback
- on this right now too or do you need to explain that? I'll get to the back then. I generally like it.
- My only thought was,
- Uh, so in, in addressing your questions as long as start there, I think. So should staff always be at
- meetings to present consent agenda items? I feel like generally speaking, none of the items. Oh, do
- you not want to talk about that right now? Well, I wanted to first look at the language. Okay. If there
- are any issues with the language. I'm fine with the language. The only thing that I have that is to
- wonder, like, if things are removed from the consent agenda, should they all be considered right after
- that instead of having minutes and boards and commissions still be at the same place on either side
- of reports. So like, because if appointments to boards and commissions and approval minutes are all
- in the consent agenda, but something that removed from the consent agenda, then I think anything removed
- from the consent agenda should be all considered at the same place in the agenda. Does that make sense?
- Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so I think what
- What we had envisioned at a staff level is like counting those items for minutes to appear on the agenda
- with maybe implements after that, if removed from the consent agenda. And then of course, if the minutes
- are approved as a part of the consent agenda, there wouldn't be a need to address minutes as the header
- on the agenda. I guess I would just propose to like,
- scratch item four and six of the approval of minutes and appointments, awards, and commissions, and
- either add a new item for saying something like consideration of items removed from the consent agenda
- or add a new item after it reports saying the same thing. So then if anything's, you know, so if we
- decide to remove
- one set of minutes from the consent agenda and one board appointment from the consent agenda. We're
- then looking at both of those things at the same place in our agenda where we then look to reconsider
- them as separate items instead of going, okay, well, we took these things off the consent agenda and
- now we're gonna do this one and then we're gonna have these reports. And now we have to go back to this
- thing that we removed from the consent agenda so that we're just like dealing with those removals in
- the same place instead of
- separate them. I don't think I had an opinion on whether we do that before reports or after reports.
- I just think we should do it all at the same time. So then, just as an example, number four, under owner
- of business would be to consider items for consideration of items from the agenda.
- right from the consent agenda and five, it's still the reports and then six would be legislation for
- first readings and seven would be second and subsequent readings and those solutions, et cetera,
- et cetera. Or go for number three, the consent agenda to number four reports to number five consideration
- of item two or from the consent agenda. Like I have no real opinion on that.
- Yeah, so that's because it might be legislation. So clerk open. I have a question, which may require
- that somebody actually taking break right now. But have you looked at how the county actually handles
- their consent agendas or asked for guidance or input from council people.
- We did look at the, I can't recall if it was an ordinance or a resolution that was adopted at the council
- staff level. Yeah, but I don't know that we went beyond that and had a discussion with Deputy Kirk Prosler
- or anybody else.
- When they had a discussion with Deputy Clerk Crossley that you know, I've tried one with County Council
- Member Crossley. I'm sorry, County Council President Crossley. President Crossley, my bad. Do you mind
- taking a break right now? I can hear officially. Please allow me to take a break. President Crossley,
- what a surprise.
- Yeah, that's like wonderful. So at the council level, we usually do consent or agenda items when it
- comes to minutes and other things like accounts creation wants. And so we have had people have questions
- where council members have said, and I kind of want to separate this from the entire motion.
- And we have, and so instead of having it go into, because we've also rearranged our agenda items too,
- to kind of make the flow of the meeting a little bit better. But instead what we do is, if for example,
- council member A decides to separate something because they want to have more questions about why this
- line is created or minutes of some sort, because they think there's something that they just want to
- say or discuss.
- Instead, we don't have, we don't put it into like council agenda items or separate sub area of our agenda.
- We just vote on the overall where a person has not separated everything. So like we will vote on everything
- that's not separated. And then we tackle in that next round after we're done with that, we go into just
- dealing with whatever it is that is separated. So, and you know,
- make a motion, go from there. And then after that, we, you know, we'll take role, deal with that, and
- then we move on. So it's rare. I'm not going to say rare. Well, occasionally it comes up. But usually
- it's because they want to have a discussion of whatever it is that's happening. And usually those discussions
- are brief.
- And usually also council members will look at the agenda to and go out our question about that was that
- in the consent agenda. So it's also coming up on council members to do their due diligence and do all
- the pre work ahead of the meeting so that you can have those questions asked of whatever department
- or whatever it is.
- that's in the consent agenda items from sign of questions about. So I would recommend to my colleagues,
- it's really upon all nine of you all to kind of do your free work of whatever it is that you might have
- with respect to your consent agenda. Again, it's like the KISS method instead of
- the last word would you say silly keep it simple silly um but you know it's it's really like trying
- to keep it like that because our agenda's got way too long when we were talking about a lot of things
- and we also had a lot of departments that were there you know like sitting there having to figure out
- if they need to flex their time because they're sitting there just waiting on something that can be
- done in like communities and so the intent is is to do all of this i want those to
- As long as no one has any kind of objections to anything and usually we just keep it for them.
- Thank you. And I have a hard stop at 130. Yes, we're going to have to discuss consent agendas again.
- I just want to clarify what the president process said in terms of.
- what's on our sheet. So that suggestion would be number three would be consent agenda and we would scratch
- number four and scratch number six. Okay. In the consent agenda thing, if you have a small question
- about one item, can you just ask that question without separating it from the rest? Yes, you can. Right.
- And usually we do that all the time because as presiding
- Officer of the meeting, I'll look around and say, are there any questions or comments for the consent
- agenda items as presented? No. And then we will go on about the day. And then usually, of course, because
- it's consent agenda items, as long as everybody is present and no one is virtual, you can do voice vote
- and then move on. So in this case, parliamentarian would say,
- I have approval of the consent agenda, there would be a second, and then there would be a, does anybody
- have questions or discussion items around the consent agenda? And then take the vote, at least for a
- contest. It sounds great to me. Okay, let us take off this discussion at our next meeting. Did we want
- to do public comment? Yes, is there any public comment about consent agendas?
- See any? Let us try to schedule a monthly meeting time that works for everybody. And we'll have to move
- the other agenda items to our next meeting. So this time, it usually does not work for me. So I guess
- it's something else to be here. Well, and I clearly like the NPO was supposed to end at noon.
- and they did not today. Often, it's much shorter than the hour and a half it's allotted, and it was
- not today. So, at the end of the meeting, you just probably haven't been just this. So, I know that
- Courtney has pretty limited availability in Sydney on this program, so are there,
- Noon times, 4 p.m. times, and I know that clerks staff and council staff probably prefers to have it
- within the work day. In the work day, we prefer meetings? During the work day. In our office? Yeah,
- that's the ideal. So I could, Wednesdays are just definitely a no for me, unfortunately. I could do
- four o'clock,
- I could do four o'clock. Tuesdays and Thursday, four o'clock are better for me, but not deal breakers.
- 12.30 on Mondays I could do. I should say middle of the days. Right. It depends on the day, the weekend
- and the specific time, right? So like Monday at noon, no, Monday at 12.30. Yes, but we have to keep
- it to an hour. Sorry, I know.
- I apologize. Tuesdays and Thursdays at noon, I could probably do four an hour, an hour and a half. Would
- a Tuesday or Thursday at four, for an hour and a half work? Right now, if you
- Because it's counted processes and frequently we are talking about board's admissions, I would recommend
- that you not do it on Tuesdays. Right, yes. Because that will come up against some other responsibilities
- for staff. But I think service days are manageable. I don't know how it's going to address that. Sorry.
- It's good to know. I mean, so four o'clock is just the lesson of the old time within my life at this point.
- It's like doable if that's the only option. I just much prefer the middle of the day. So like a middle
- of the day I can do, but I really prefer to keep it to an hour if we have to work in the middle of the
- day. Just because, right, then for me it is an hour and a half, right, with the travel time. And so
- I'm out of work for an hour and a half.
- Is your Thursday for no place to be? Yes, I'm here. There's one day a month where it's not. It's usually
- the same Thursday. Okay, how about the third Thursday? Next month that falls into the break. Are people
- around? I don't have to be here. I am here.
- I live back on the 18th, so I'm here often. Third? Thursday? Yes. At noon? No. Or are we running on
- 4 to 5.30? I would prefer. Is that feasible? Oh. Thursday at 4 to 5.30, is that feasible? On the 19th?
- We don't have staff, or we're very short of staff. OK.
- Okay, so maybe Thursday. Generally speaking on Thursdays. On Thursdays, I think it looks good. I'm trying
- to do a quick and dirty scan. You can also do fourth Thursdays, since it's pretty the minor of today.
- I would honestly prefer the third and a more regular thing, because as it goes on to the BZA meetings
- right now, there were a few things that I'm like, oh, I don't know.
- And I know I'm half of our ones, but yeah, sevens have just been really long, but maybe next month could
- be the 26th. And then moving forward, we could do the third Thursday. How does that feel for the parks
- office? I'm checking. In the abstract, I think it's going to be fine. I would let you know if there
- are any other conflicts. Is that comfortable for everybody?
- But our next meeting is gonna be the 26th at four. Can't do that. Oh. Okay. I'm going to Seattle. Oh,
- right. Well, what about the week before spring break, Thursday the 12th? I can't. That's when I have
- voice readout day board, perhaps. Okay. Thursday at 12 or Thursday at four? Four. Yeah, at four,
- the 12th, March 12th is what I meant.
- Oh, and. Yeah, that's the second Thursday, so we can't. OK, got it. Right. And we can't eat it. Because
- we can't do it. OK. OK, what is your Friday thing at? It's Institute New. You've got major works. OK.
- You've got to get conflicts. Is it personal? I volunteer at the community kitchen. That's very important.
- I mean, I could do it every week. I could do it another time. No, it's fine. Do you do that? Or a Friday
- cruise. Stuff. Do you do that every week? Yes. I would like to validate your volunteer hours. OK.
- Well, what were the other days that were good for you, Courtney, the other days of four? It was Tuesday.
- I mean, are we talking just for this once? Yes. Any day of the Wednesday, I could probably make work
- as long as I don't already have a meeting scheduled on that. What about Monday, the 23rd? I can't do
- that. I have the downtown business meeting. The 24th? What did you say about the 24th?
- I just said, how about the 24th? You won't have Deputy Kirk Crossley, but the 24th at four? Yes, but
- I will just raise, if we're going to talk about boards and commissions, we probably should have Deputy
- Kirk Crossley. Are we going to talk about boards and commissions? We can put that off another month.
- OK, that's fine. I just want to be aware if we're not going to have someone. So we could do consent
- agenda, the council member sponsorship,
- and revisit the. Yes. And that would probably take an hour and a half right there. Right there.
- There we go. So March 24th at 4 PM. And then starting in April, we're going to do the third Thursday
- at 4. And that works for everybody. And the park is going to post those. And so I don't have to put
- them on my calendar, because they are usually refreshed. So accurate.
- Yeah. And so that's third Thursday in April is the 16th. It is one 30. Yeah. Oh, super. All right. Thank
- you all. Thank you, everybody.