WEBVTT 00:00:01.890 --> 00:00:09.386 - Call the committee of the whole to order and we will start with appropriation ordinance 2025-13 the 00:00:09.386 --> 00:00:17.181 - council will now receive a presentation from Katlyn Sager director of the utilities department Welcome, 00:00:17.181 --> 00:00:24.752 - please state your name for the record and Kat Sager utilities director. I'm presenting the ordinance 00:00:24.752 --> 00:00:25.726 - adopting the 00:00:25.986 --> 00:00:33.735 - budget for the operation maintenance debt service and capital improvements for the water and wastewater 00:00:33.735 --> 00:00:41.261 - utility departments for the city of Bloomington, Indiana for the year 2026. Our water utility budget 00:00:41.261 --> 00:00:48.638 - totals $23,119,000. And our wastewater utility budget is $34,590,000. Happy to take any questions. 00:00:50.978 --> 00:00:58.084 - Thank you. The floor is now open for questions from council members under Bloomington municipal code 00:00:58.084 --> 00:01:05.400 - section two point zero four point two five zero Parentheses see there is no limit on how often a member 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:12.787 - may speak However, no member may speak for longer than five minutes at a time any questions From council 00:01:12.787 --> 00:01:15.390 - members councilmember Piedmont Smith 00:01:18.370 --> 00:01:26.865 - Yes, I asked this in the written questions, and you answered, but I still don't understand. So I'm hoping 00:01:26.865 --> 00:01:35.200 - to get some clarity. And that is the extensions and replacements under section one of the water utility 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:42.654 - is a negative amount, negative $603,000. Why are we budgeting a negative amount? Yeah, sure. 00:01:42.818 --> 00:01:48.550 - So I'll answer that question. Also, another question I receive around the same topic. So when you look 00:01:48.550 --> 00:01:55.006 - at our budget, there's actuals and then our budgeted amount. The actuals are zero or close to zero because we don't 00:01:55.170 --> 00:02:01.650 - Charge things to extensions and replacements Extensions and replacements is how we balance our water 00:02:01.650 --> 00:02:08.195 - budget which needs to be a net zero budget So when we have a positive extensions and replacements, we 00:02:08.195 --> 00:02:14.675 - use that for things like unexpected Expenses and maintenance when it is negative. It's indicative of 00:02:14.675 --> 00:02:18.846 - a shortfall which I discussed during our budget presentation and 00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:31.130 - That shortfall we are planning on taking a one-time loan from our sewer utility to make up for that 00:02:31.130 --> 00:02:43.069 - That helper Yes, so what why is why is it called extensions and replacements Just historical yeah, it's 00:02:43.069 --> 00:02:46.398 - a historical name for it and 00:02:46.498 --> 00:02:54.653 - It doesn't actually refer to extending or replacing people assume it means it's physically extending 00:02:54.653 --> 00:03:02.808 - and replacing pipe But that's not the meaning of it. No, so it's its own fund. Yes. Okay. All right. 00:03:02.808 --> 00:03:10.963 - Thank you Any other councilmembers have questions Councilmember Rallo I had a question forgot to ask 00:03:10.963 --> 00:03:15.646 - it during budget and that is I'm curious to know what our 00:03:16.002 --> 00:03:23.721 - current spare capacity is of our water treatment plant in other words, where are we in terms of it's 00:03:23.721 --> 00:03:31.517 - you know, we we had improvements about 10 or 12 years ago, maybe more 15 years ago, and I don't think 00:03:31.517 --> 00:03:39.312 - there have been any other expansion since then Where are we? I think the maximum was about 34 million 00:03:39.312 --> 00:03:40.382 - per day or so 00:03:40.514 --> 00:03:50.484 - So the maximum capacity of our water treatment plant is 30 million gallons per day We average around 00:03:50.484 --> 00:04:00.552 - 15 with highs around 19 to 20 Okay, so we're well within Our we have a lot of spare capacity. Yes, we 00:04:00.552 --> 00:04:08.350 - maintain capacity. Okay Great. Thank you Okay, we will now take public comment 00:04:08.706 --> 00:04:15.076 - Members of the public may provide comments. If you are in chamber, please approach the podium, state 00:04:15.076 --> 00:04:21.698 - your name for the record, sign in on the sheet and speak directly into the microphone. Not seeing anyone 00:04:21.698 --> 00:04:28.004 - in chambers. If you are joining via zoom, please raise your hand by using the reactions tab or send 00:04:28.004 --> 00:04:34.311 - a message to the host. Each speaker will have three minutes to share their comments. Do we have any 00:04:34.311 --> 00:04:37.086 - speakers on zoom? No, we do not. Thank you. 00:04:38.082 --> 00:04:46.185 - Any takers in the chambers? Okay in that case that will end our public comment period and I will return 00:04:46.185 --> 00:04:54.444 - the floor to council members to ask any additional questions or provide any further comment Councilmember 00:04:54.444 --> 00:05:02.235 - Piedmont Smith So just to clarify for the public this budget does not assume any rate increases, is 00:05:02.235 --> 00:05:03.326 - that correct? 00:05:04.162 --> 00:05:12.652 - budget does not assume a rate increase and we'll be talking about that soon in this body. Yes we will 00:05:12.652 --> 00:05:21.143 - be talking about that soon here. Thank you. Any other comments. OK. In that case I will entertain any 00:05:21.143 --> 00:05:22.974 - motions at this time. 00:05:27.970 --> 00:05:39.424 - I move that the committee of the whole make a recommendation to the council for the adoption of appropriation 00:05:39.424 --> 00:05:49.837 - ordinance twenty twenty five dash thirteen. Clerk Bolden will you please call the roll. Absolutely. 00:05:49.837 --> 00:05:57.438 - Piedmont Smith. Yes. Stasberg. Yes. Daily. Yes. Sulek. Yes. Rosenberger. 00:05:57.762 --> 00:06:04.894 - Yes. Sorry. Yes. Thank you. With a vote of seven zero that motion passes and now we'll move 00:06:04.894 --> 00:06:12.802 - on to appropriation ordinance twenty five dash twelve and the council will now receive a presentation 00:06:12.802 --> 00:06:20.710 - from John Connell general manager of Bloomington transit. Mr. Connell if you could introduce yourself 00:06:20.710 --> 00:06:21.950 - for the record. 00:06:22.306 --> 00:06:28.613 - Thank you for being a general manager of Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation respectfully 00:06:28.613 --> 00:06:35.108 - request an approval of this appropriation ordinance establishing the Bloomington Public Transportation 00:06:35.108 --> 00:06:41.604 - Corporation's twenty twenty six budget. There are no changes been made to the twenty twenty six budget 00:06:41.604 --> 00:06:46.334 - since the August council meeting and presentation. The total of the twenty 00:06:46.466 --> 00:06:54.009 - 2026 budget is 19 million three hundred and eighty three thousand four hundred and two dollars with 00:06:54.009 --> 00:07:01.703 - a proposed property tax rate of point zero three seven one Thank you so much for your presentation at 00:07:01.703 --> 00:07:09.472 - this point the floor is open for questions from council members as a reminder There is no limit on how 00:07:09.472 --> 00:07:15.582 - often a member may speak but no longer than five minutes at a time any questions 00:07:17.154 --> 00:07:27.879 - Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, how does the 0.0371 rate compare with the 2025 rate? So the 25 rate 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:38.498 - was 0.0 403 but the 25 budget was 32 million as opposed to 19 million so they 20 the 2025 budget Had 00:07:38.498 --> 00:07:46.910 - significant amount of capital programming So it's there's a reduction this year 00:07:47.074 --> 00:07:58.499 - Believe it's 72 percent in our capital budget Thank you Councilmember Stossberg Thank you. I have a 00:07:58.499 --> 00:08:00.670 - question about the 00:08:00.802 --> 00:08:08.805 - The budget form to estimate of miscellaneous revenue. There's two parts of it. One is Revenue code are 00:08:08.805 --> 00:08:16.653 - one one nine, which has a state federal and local payments in lieu of taxes and in 2025 that numbers 00:08:16.653 --> 00:08:24.424 - zero But then in 2026, we're expecting over six million dollars and I just want to understand First 00:08:24.424 --> 00:08:29.086 - where that revenue source is coming from Which former young 00:08:29.218 --> 00:08:42.248 - Budget form to estimate of miscellaneous revenue. That's what it is titled in our packet And then it's 00:08:42.248 --> 00:08:55.278 - the third line that in 2025 was zero and then in 2026 is estimated to be six and a half million almost 00:08:55.278 --> 00:08:56.670 - So the six 00:08:57.410 --> 00:09:09.117 - 6.4 that includes the ED lit that we Received from the city in addition to the PMTF, which is the public 00:09:09.117 --> 00:09:20.266 - mass transportation fund Forms of revenue though for BT because they're they are existing I'll have 00:09:20.266 --> 00:09:26.398 - to Check with our controller. I'm not quite certain of 00:09:26.594 --> 00:09:36.016 - Why that that would be zero Okay If you could give me that answer of why 2025 was zero that would be 00:09:36.016 --> 00:09:45.718 - great or if that's an error on that form I have another question about that form to you, but I'll yield 00:09:45.718 --> 00:09:55.326 - back to another member if they have question Do any other council members have questions at this time? 00:09:57.410 --> 00:10:04.788 - To you councilmember Stilesburg. Okay And then on that format also in the second line from the bottom 00:10:04.788 --> 00:10:12.238 - the other charges for services sales and fees that's also Increasing by over a million dollars. So I'm 00:10:12.238 --> 00:10:19.616 - just wondering if you're Are you raising rates or do you think that there's your ridership numbers up 00:10:19.616 --> 00:10:26.270 - like what accounts for that just over a million dollars of increase expectation for revenue 00:10:29.762 --> 00:10:37.598 - That is, let me go back to the revenue side here. 00:11:05.794 --> 00:11:16.572 - That is the increase from the Partnership agreements that we have that includes the Monroe County service 00:11:16.572 --> 00:11:26.740 - as well. Okay That makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much Great Councilmember Piedmont Smith well, 00:11:26.740 --> 00:11:34.366 - I just wanted to thank council member Stossberg for her question about the 00:11:35.458 --> 00:11:42.607 - Huge increase in the state federal and local payments in lieu of taxes. I wonder if I'm looking at the 00:11:42.607 --> 00:11:49.547 - next line federal and state grants and distributions which was fourteen point seven million is last 00:11:49.547 --> 00:11:56.487 - or for the second half of 25 and Is down to six point four million next year. I wonder if that line 00:11:56.487 --> 00:12:03.358 - was lit up for next year Yeah, so that that includes the so the federal for the federal grant that 00:12:03.522 --> 00:12:13.113 - Like I mentioned in 25 we had the budget was almost twice of what it is this year and that was driven 00:12:13.113 --> 00:12:23.175 - by that infusion of federal dollars that is not being reflected in in the current year. So you are correct 00:12:23.175 --> 00:12:32.766 - there. That does have an impact on that number. OK. But yeah but it's not it's not part of the pilot. 00:12:33.538 --> 00:12:41.512 - Yeah that's totally separate. OK I understand that line is so much decreased because we just don't have 00:12:41.512 --> 00:12:49.563 - any grants coming in. Yeah. Well our capital budget is 72 percent lower this year than it was last year. 00:12:49.563 --> 00:12:57.307 - OK. Well I'm looking forward to getting the answer for OK. I can I can the state and local payments. 00:12:57.307 --> 00:12:59.454 - Thank you. Other questions. 00:13:01.698 --> 00:13:08.378 - Seeing none, we will move into public comment on appropriation ordinance 2025-12. Mr. Connell, thank 00:13:08.378 --> 00:13:15.057 - you so much for your presentation. This section constitutes a public hearing held in accordance with 00:13:15.057 --> 00:13:21.737 - Indiana Code Title 6, Article 1.1, Chapter 17, Section 3. If you are in the chamber, please approach 00:13:21.737 --> 00:13:26.366 - the podium, state your name for the record, and sign in on the sheet. 00:13:28.674 --> 00:13:35.877 - If you are joining via Zoom, please raise your hand using the reactions tab or send a message to the 00:13:35.877 --> 00:13:43.222 - host. Each speaker will have three minutes to share their comments. Do we have any takers on Zoom? No. 00:13:43.222 --> 00:13:50.567 - Great. Thank you. Last chance for chambers. Seeing none, that will conclude our public comment period. 00:13:50.567 --> 00:13:57.342 - And we will return to council members to ask questions or offer any comments. Council members. 00:13:58.786 --> 00:14:06.039 - Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I just wanted to Wish mr. Connell and his staff luck in finding a 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:13.221 - new location for the Transportation Center. I know that you're outgrowing your current location. So 00:14:13.221 --> 00:14:20.905 - I hope hopefully that'll move along in the coming year We're getting closer. Thank you Any other questions 00:14:20.905 --> 00:14:25.214 - or comments Seeing none I am happy to entertain a motion. I 00:14:32.994 --> 00:14:42.866 - That the committee of the whole make a recommendation to the council for adoption of appropriation ordinance 00:14:42.866 --> 00:14:52.376 - 2025-13 Okay, I rescind that I move that the committee of the whole make a recommendation to the council 00:14:52.376 --> 00:15:02.430 - for the adoption of appropriation ordinance 2025-12 Clerk Bolton, would you please call the roll? Yes, yes Yes 00:15:02.978 --> 00:15:10.948 - Daily. Yes. Stasburg. Yes. Rosenberger. Yes. Sorry. Yes. And Rallo. Yes. Great. With a vote of seven 00:15:10.948 --> 00:15:18.997 - dash zero that ordinary appropriation ordinance passes as well. Moving right along into appropriation 00:15:18.997 --> 00:15:26.888 - ordinance twenty five dash eleven or twenty twenty five dash eleven. The council will now receive a 00:15:26.888 --> 00:15:31.070 - presentation from Jessica McClellan city controller. 00:15:33.154 --> 00:15:41.170 - Good evening council Jessica McClellan city controller. I respectfully request your consideration in 00:15:41.170 --> 00:15:49.662 - approval of ordinance 2025 dash 11 the budget for the civil city of Bloomington for a total of 163 million 00:15:49.662 --> 00:15:53.630 - 152 thousand five hundred and fifty seven dollars 00:15:54.146 --> 00:16:00.712 - That is a total that has been noted had the public notice published in the form three and the ordinance 00:16:00.712 --> 00:16:07.088 - that is before you as the form four. We have a memo that we've submitted that go through some of the 00:16:07.088 --> 00:16:13.591 - changes that we made. The most substantial change that we made between the budget hearings and tonight 00:16:13.591 --> 00:16:19.968 - is that we added point seven percent to the cola for a total cola of two point seven percent for all 00:16:19.968 --> 00:16:22.430 - non-union regular appointed employees. 00:16:22.626 --> 00:16:32.110 - Other employees such as a police and fire already had their budgeted three percent increase for cola 00:16:32.110 --> 00:16:34.270 - and for AFSCME we have 00:16:34.562 --> 00:16:41.642 - We've agreed with AFSCME to give them a 5% increase for next year, but we have not closed AFSCME negotiations 00:16:41.642 --> 00:16:48.593 - yet, and those continue on their contract, but they will be getting an increase in their salary nonetheless 00:16:48.593 --> 00:16:55.222 - of 5% for next year while we work on those negotiations. Those are the most substantial changes to the 00:16:55.222 --> 00:17:02.238 - budget since when they presented to you in budget hearings. There have been minor corrections to things like 00:17:02.338 --> 00:17:08.844 - Like a little bit too much health insurance or a little bit too much of the deferred compensation match 00:17:08.844 --> 00:17:15.101 - things like that in the personnel budget We went through and audited all of that and corrected that 00:17:15.101 --> 00:17:21.419 - And at this point, I'd be happy to take any questions that you have either about the budget in total 00:17:21.419 --> 00:17:26.174 - details things you'd like to for me to follow up on and the advertised rate 00:17:32.130 --> 00:17:40.183 - Thank you so much controller McClellan for that presentation. The floor is now open for questions from 00:17:40.183 --> 00:17:48.079 - council members. As a reminder, no limit on how often a member may speak, but there is a five minute 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:56.210 - at a time requirement. So any questions? Council member Stosberg. Thank you. So I was trying to compare 00:17:56.210 --> 00:18:01.214 - the adopted tax rates for this budget that were being presented 00:18:01.378 --> 00:18:09.545 - for next year to the one that we were presented last year for this year. And it last year's packet doesn't 00:18:09.545 --> 00:18:17.255 - quite align in quite the same way in terms of how things look. And so I was having a hard time doing 00:18:17.255 --> 00:18:25.117 - that. So if you could just run through the differences between the tax rate this year and the tax rate 00:18:25.117 --> 00:18:30.078 - last year and how that might be reflected for people in terms of 00:18:30.370 --> 00:18:37.617 - their actual bills, because at least one of them on the ordinance or resolution for appropriations and 00:18:37.617 --> 00:18:44.794 - tax rates that this year is 1.3632, last year's was 1.0414, which is definitely an increase. But then 00:18:44.794 --> 00:18:51.900 - it looked like for lots of different funds, they were all a little different. And they had their own 00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:59.710 - page. And I couldn't align all of them with last year's. So if you could go through that, that would be great. 00:18:59.810 --> 00:19:07.075 - Yeah, this is I'd be happy to go over that and for the public and for the council. This is the most 00:19:07.075 --> 00:19:14.775 - confusing and honestly Sort of nonsensical part of approving this budget and for that I apologize There's 00:19:14.775 --> 00:19:22.113 - okay. We're gonna talk right now real quick about the ordinance ordinance number 25 11 on the bottom 00:19:22.113 --> 00:19:27.198 - of that first page you'll see that you're adopting a tax rate of 1.36 00:19:27.714 --> 00:19:35.195 - Okay, first throw that number out the window. That is not going to be the tax rate and that is the most 00:19:35.195 --> 00:19:42.388 - nonsensical part of this whole presentation. It's because this is where the thing comes in where we 00:19:42.388 --> 00:19:49.581 - say we advertise high. That rate is advertised high. It's not going to be 1.36. We advertise a high 00:19:49.581 --> 00:19:57.278 - rate because the DLGF is going to set our rate. They're gonna take our actual certified net assessed value 00:19:57.602 --> 00:20:03.784 - Divide it by these actual these are actually our budget. This is our actual budget numbers and your 00:20:03.784 --> 00:20:10.214 - actual levy numbers But the DLGF is going to come up with the perfect rate that gets us our full amount 00:20:10.214 --> 00:20:16.458 - of budget and we're going to advertise high a high rate So that they have a lot of leeway to give us 00:20:16.458 --> 00:20:23.073 - the rate that we need Okay, and now I'm going to talk about something that is not in your packet somewhere 00:20:23.073 --> 00:20:26.782 - this year 2025 the city of Bloomington's actual tax rate is 00:20:28.450 --> 00:20:39.994 - 0.8 7 8 6 2 7 the actual tax rate for the city of Bloomington is 0.8 6 2 7 and We can and we've estimated 00:20:39.994 --> 00:20:51.212 - the actual tax rate for the city of Bloomington next year is going to be 0.8 4 2 6 so 0.8 6 2 7 to 0.8 00:20:51.212 --> 00:20:56.222 - 4 2 6 it'll be somewhere around 0.8 4 2 6 and 00:20:57.730 --> 00:21:05.382 - somewhere around that and we'll we'll know when the DLGF reviews our budget certifies our budget and 00:21:05.382 --> 00:21:12.958 - gives us our actual rate. We advertise high because there is rounding and there is this thing where 00:21:12.958 --> 00:21:16.670 - if we add if you guys approve a rate that's like 00:21:16.994 --> 00:21:24.542 - one percentage, like one hundredth of a percentage point too low, but the DLGF could have given us one 00:21:24.542 --> 00:21:32.382 - percentage point higher to get us closer to our budget, we could lose out on like 10, 20 thousand dollars. 00:21:32.382 --> 00:21:39.783 - So, it's not a great answer to your question, like we can't line up, why is that 1.3% different than 00:21:39.783 --> 00:21:44.766 - the 1.4 or 2% that it was last year? But I do want to tell you that 00:21:45.602 --> 00:21:55.605 - We and we estimate that next year Bloomington civil cities tax rate will go down Okay, thank you you're 00:21:55.605 --> 00:22:00.222 - welcome other questions councilmember, sorry, I 00:22:02.658 --> 00:22:10.893 - Thank you so much as always. First question is yesterday when the county decided to bond that raised 00:22:10.893 --> 00:22:19.128 - a big question mark right of the with SEA 1 etc. How are they able to do that. I'll speak in general 00:22:19.128 --> 00:22:27.934 - terms because I don't know exactly what they're doing. I know generally what they're doing a six year bond. 00:22:28.482 --> 00:22:36.515 - is considered a longer is not is not considered a short term bond. If it's not a short term bond it's 00:22:36.515 --> 00:22:44.626 - not subject to the cooling off requirements. We did not consider a six year bond just for general city 00:22:44.626 --> 00:22:52.580 - operations like we did last year because we're considering bonds for much bigger projects right now. 00:22:52.580 --> 00:22:56.990 - And we want to kind of keep our powder dry so to speak. 00:22:57.218 --> 00:23:03.084 - We're not ready to just like yes, we do need to bond to like our short-term bond process that we tried 00:23:03.084 --> 00:23:09.063 - to start last year like we have to reanalyze that and we also have big projects that we need to complete 00:23:09.063 --> 00:23:14.815 - and so we just Did not consider something like a six-year bond and it's happening because it's not a 00:23:14.815 --> 00:23:21.022 - short-term bond and not subject to the cooling off period that makes total sense and then as far as I know I 00:23:21.250 --> 00:23:28.780 - Yeah, yeah. And actually, thank you. You anticipated the question I was going to ask is whether we consider 00:23:28.780 --> 00:23:35.961 - that. The second question that I have was around this ongoing conversation that we've been having from 00:23:35.961 --> 00:23:43.142 - day one of budget about the accuracy of our projected deficit. In the time in between since we started 00:23:43.142 --> 00:23:50.462 - these conversations and now, how confident do you feel in the likelihood that we actually approach that? 00:23:50.850 --> 00:23:57.081 - That deficit spending this year, which would be which would be a unique thing in Bloomington's history 00:23:57.081 --> 00:24:03.312 - Alright, so I think what you're if I'll give some history to like other to members of the public other 00:24:03.312 --> 00:24:09.603 - people here tonight That we typically don't spend our entire budget So when we plan for our budget next 00:24:09.603 --> 00:24:15.834 - year, we have to assume we're gonna spend our whole budget this year And that typically doesn't happen 00:24:15.834 --> 00:24:20.190 - mostly because of personnel expenses that don't get spent and so we are 00:24:20.386 --> 00:24:27.604 - projecting a nine million nine point four million dollar deficit at the end of next year, but There's 00:24:27.604 --> 00:24:35.317 - a very good chance That we will have left less of a deficit because we might only spend 90% We're projecting 00:24:35.317 --> 00:24:42.536 - to spend about 90% of our budget this year Which will improve our deficit position this year and next 00:24:42.536 --> 00:24:48.126 - year. So we estimate around 90% which is about where we have been hovering and 00:24:48.898 --> 00:24:57.249 - Excellent. And then this is a super minor question. In the packet, I'm supposing that the squares on 00:24:57.249 --> 00:25:05.847 - the Excel sheet weren't large enough before it was converted to a PDF. So there's five items that don't 00:25:05.847 --> 00:25:14.198 - actually have numbers, but they have hashes. And I'm sure we've seen these actual numbers in another 00:25:14.198 --> 00:25:16.926 - place, but may be worth getting. 00:25:17.698 --> 00:25:26.414 - Council staff was awesome enough to send out a packet addendum, a packet addendum. Did that come out 00:25:26.414 --> 00:25:35.129 - like yesterday or the day before? And it does have, yes, it does have all the numbers. And actually, 00:25:35.129 --> 00:25:43.931 - as a point to that sheet, there's an error that I made on that sheet. I entered, there's a whole line 00:25:43.931 --> 00:25:47.038 - on there about engineering, ED lit, 00:25:47.874 --> 00:25:55.053 - engineering design and right-of-way acquisition for college and walnut and then it has a bunch of hash 00:25:55.053 --> 00:26:02.302 - marks those hash marks should say 1.4 million that is just an Oopsie that is not a thing So the revised 00:26:02.302 --> 00:26:09.481 - version of that will just have that it's not even in the addendum. We just found that today Thank you. 00:26:09.481 --> 00:26:10.526 - You're welcome 00:26:17.154 --> 00:26:27.142 - Explanation referring to the table that you were speaking about with the adopted tax rate of one point 00:26:27.142 --> 00:26:36.936 - three six Etc You've got the adopted budget the adopted tax levy and then the various rates Are they 00:26:36.936 --> 00:26:45.566 - you've overestimated? As you explained are they all overestimated by the same increment? 00:26:46.850 --> 00:26:57.755 - Yes, they are all overestimated by the same increment, but that only applies to funds with an adopted 00:26:57.755 --> 00:27:08.767 - tax levy So general fund parks MVH The bond funds So The adopted budget will stay the same the adopted 00:27:08.767 --> 00:27:13.150 - levy will stay the same it's just when I 00:27:13.602 --> 00:27:21.814 - You can't see it on this form, but this form is created by another form in which I enter the CNAV, and 00:27:21.814 --> 00:27:30.346 - I enter the CNAV as $4.3 billion. Our certified net assessed value is $5.4 billion. And so that difference 00:27:30.346 --> 00:27:38.558 - between $4.3 billion and $5.4, that's what makes the rate higher. So those dollar amounts that you see 00:27:38.558 --> 00:27:43.422 - will stay exactly the same, and then the rates will go down. 00:27:44.738 --> 00:27:56.212 - Okay I see. Thank you. That's clarity. Smith. What has changed since the budget hearings that eight 00:27:56.212 --> 00:28:08.146 - hundred eighty three thousand six ninety nine was added to the sanitation fund support. So that's huge. 00:28:08.146 --> 00:28:14.686 - It was already it was seven hundred thousand. So that's. 00:28:14.786 --> 00:28:21.876 - More than doubling what the proposed to be moved from the general fund to the sanitation fund. Yes. 00:28:21.876 --> 00:28:28.966 - Could you speak to why that is. Yes definitely. The sanitation fund is a self-contained fund. Think 00:28:28.966 --> 00:28:36.198 - of it like a little business. It is all the revenue that comes from sanitation goes into one fund and 00:28:36.198 --> 00:28:41.374 - all the expenses that come from sanitation are in one fund and it's it's 00:28:41.474 --> 00:28:47.157 - It's like a simple business. We are not charging enough for sanitation. And so we're falling short on 00:28:47.157 --> 00:28:52.895 - revenue. So we're going to come with back to you and we're going to give you all the information about 00:28:52.895 --> 00:28:58.633 - you know what we need what what it costs what we're doing what we could be doing what we could change. 00:28:58.633 --> 00:29:04.260 - We're going to come back to you and you and we're going to ask the council to decide there's there's 00:29:04.260 --> 00:29:05.374 - really two options. 00:29:05.666 --> 00:29:12.690 - You know a combination of these two options. We continue to support it with general fund Which is totally 00:29:12.690 --> 00:29:19.382 - fine or we raise rates and ask that the the resident To pay for the actual cost of service right now 00:29:19.382 --> 00:29:26.207 - We're not charging for the actual cost of service and so we will bring that information to you because 00:29:26.207 --> 00:29:32.900 - we want you to make a You know an informed decision in either way is fine, but you just need to know 00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:35.550 - you know you can make that decision and 00:29:35.650 --> 00:29:42.624 - We will get out of this situation or we can agree that we want to support it through the general fund 00:29:42.624 --> 00:29:49.462 - So right now we're supporting it through the general fund As just kind of a Way to make it work but 00:29:49.462 --> 00:29:56.368 - I feel like you guys need all the information to either to make the decision of what you really want 00:29:56.368 --> 00:30:01.086 - to do with that with with that service that we provide as a city and 00:30:02.626 --> 00:30:12.447 - Yes we had that discussion two years ago. Even I and I understand there's a subsidy for sanitation services 00:30:12.447 --> 00:30:21.631 - but why is this this is more than half a million dollars increase between last year 2024 actuals and 00:30:21.631 --> 00:30:28.542 - what you're proposing for 2026. So have the expenses gone that much higher. 00:30:28.706 --> 00:30:35.133 - What is going on? I went back and this again this information. Well, we will bring this information 00:30:35.133 --> 00:30:41.559 - all to you in more detail It's not in this packet I went back and looked at what the actual general 00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:48.114 - fund support has been over the years and it's been it does hover around You know like 900 to a little 00:30:48.114 --> 00:30:50.942 - bit over a million 1.5 is high a lot of and 00:30:51.394 --> 00:30:57.939 - We will be coming back to you this year for more support in the sanitation fund. We don't know what 00:30:57.939 --> 00:31:04.876 - that will be yet because we want to wait till the end of the year because we only want to ask for exactly 00:31:04.876 --> 00:31:11.683 - what we need. I don't think it will be one point five million next year because of things like employee 00:31:11.683 --> 00:31:18.686 - retention like vacancies and employment that kind of thing. But to balance the budget we have to advertise 00:31:19.170 --> 00:31:26.147 - We have to advertise for that kind of revenue support in the general fund. I don't think that we will 00:31:26.147 --> 00:31:33.192 - actually need that much next year But that is what is needed like sort of on paper to make to make our 00:31:33.192 --> 00:31:40.237 - actual expenses if every position is filled and we Spend as much as we have budgeted for like fuel and 00:31:40.237 --> 00:31:42.494 - repair and supplies and uniforms 00:31:42.722 --> 00:31:50.554 - If we spend everything that is budgeted, we will need that much. But there's a very good chance that 00:31:50.554 --> 00:31:58.309 - we won't spend that much. However, we usually subsidize it by around a million dollars. And I don't 00:31:58.309 --> 00:32:06.451 - think we will need $1.5 million next year, but we will need around a million unless we change something. 00:32:06.451 --> 00:32:12.190 - So between the budget hearings and today, or the creation of this packet, 00:32:13.154 --> 00:32:22.581 - The I guess the expenditures Must have increased. Can we see the new sheets that show how they've increased? 00:32:22.581 --> 00:32:31.402 - That oh gosh That was an aspirational budget on on our on our part purely purely on my part I thought 00:32:31.402 --> 00:32:40.136 - that we would be able to find a way to cut their expenses to get it down to make 700,000 work and we 00:32:40.136 --> 00:32:42.558 - we could not we did not and 00:32:42.914 --> 00:32:50.095 - We did not increase we increase their expenses by like the AFSCME contract only by salaries We did increase 00:32:50.095 --> 00:32:57.011 - their budget through salaries But we did not increase any of their other kind other expenses and I wish 00:32:57.011 --> 00:33:03.727 - I should have presented a budget to you in the budget hearings that had more of general fund support 00:33:03.727 --> 00:33:10.110 - But I thought that there would be a way that I could find a way to make it work and I could not 00:33:11.458 --> 00:33:19.564 - That's purely yeah all that it is. I I think if I showed you I don't think I have that version of those 00:33:19.564 --> 00:33:27.436 - Those like financial reports with the 700 I mean I could easily recreate it and it would have showed 00:33:27.436 --> 00:33:35.230 - a deficit budget I think there might have been a deficit budget in the budget book, but For now, so 00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:41.310 - thank you Councilmember Stasburg I'll follow up on that a little bit just for 00:33:41.602 --> 00:33:49.780 - some clarity. So I think I just heard you say that sanitation is going to need an additional appropriation 00:33:49.780 --> 00:33:51.614 - for 2025. Yes. OK. And. 00:33:52.002 --> 00:33:58.941 - What I heard, because I asked Director Wason about this during his presentation, too, because the $700,000 00:33:58.941 --> 00:34:05.750 - that was budgeted was substantially less than past years. And he said, well, worse comes to worse. We'll 00:34:05.750 --> 00:34:12.235 - just need an additional appropriation next year. So what you just said is to basically make it work 00:34:12.235 --> 00:34:18.720 - out on paper to the satisfaction of the state. We have to additionally budget the subsidy now, even 00:34:18.720 --> 00:34:20.990 - if it doesn't get used later. Yes. 00:34:21.250 --> 00:34:27.275 - Right. Yes. Yes, that is very true and like it's like a budget and in actual like every day every month 00:34:27.275 --> 00:34:33.301 - we check that fund and it's hovering right around zero and then over time it gets further and you know, 00:34:33.301 --> 00:34:39.152 - it gets more and more and more into the negative and then at the end of the year we come back and we 00:34:39.152 --> 00:34:44.946 - bring it back to zero and then we hope You know, we hope that the revenues next year will cover the 00:34:44.946 --> 00:34:50.334 - costs and they never do and they they're not going to Until we raise them like it's just not 00:34:53.186 --> 00:35:00.860 - It's just It just doesn't make any budgetary sense so Now we have to do something Mm-hmm, but you know, 00:35:00.860 --> 00:35:08.312 - there's options the city could decide literally it can be your choice to fund it with a general fund 00:35:08.312 --> 00:35:15.912 - That's totally fine. But I just want you to have all the information and you to make that choice Okay, 00:35:15.912 --> 00:35:19.454 - thank you. Um, and then I think I had one other 00:35:20.354 --> 00:35:37.118 - unrelated question, but now I can't find it, so I'll just... Other questions? Oh, Council Member Asari. Hello. 00:35:37.346 --> 00:35:43.672 - Well, actually, let me ask the other question, because I lost my train of thought on that point. When 00:35:43.672 --> 00:35:50.246 - we talked about the increasing COLA, we had originally proposed cutting a handful of things, particularly 00:35:50.246 --> 00:35:56.510 - around, I think, consulting fees and studies and the like. Did those get cut, or? Yes. OK, so. I can 00:35:56.510 --> 00:36:02.526 - tell you that. Yeah, tell us that, because what was removed from the budget was not in the memo. 00:36:03.234 --> 00:36:11.651 - Yeah, the most substantial one is I cut 127,000 from legal services, special legal services in the legal 00:36:11.651 --> 00:36:20.389 - department. And if you remember, there was just around 900,000 special legal services. And it was definitely 00:36:20.389 --> 00:36:28.565 - like a cushion. We never spend that much. It might be used. It's nice to have. And I thought that was 00:36:28.565 --> 00:36:32.894 - a great place to transfer some of that into the COLA. 00:36:33.314 --> 00:36:40.974 - And then that's just general fund. And then there's other funds that don't really have that much cushion, 00:36:40.974 --> 00:36:48.201 - but they didn't have that much I needed to cut. So I found things like, I don't know, uniforms look 00:36:48.201 --> 00:36:55.427 - like you budget this much and you only spend 75% most years. So I cut a little bit out of something 00:36:55.427 --> 00:36:56.222 - like that. 00:37:00.034 --> 00:37:05.984 - Following on then on the question of sanitation just general information how can we set rates in the 00:37:05.984 --> 00:37:12.111 - middle of the year? Does that happen once a year during does do the rates for sanitation get set during 00:37:12.111 --> 00:37:18.061 - budget or can we change those at some point during the year? Those don't get set during budget. They 00:37:18.061 --> 00:37:24.011 - I've never done a sanitation rate set So I hope I'm not speaking on a turn, but I believe sanitation 00:37:24.011 --> 00:37:28.606 - comes public works comes you the council approves like a multi-year range and 00:37:28.834 --> 00:37:36.272 - And so that was, I think that was done in 2022 or 2023. So that range is set and then like every three 00:37:36.272 --> 00:37:43.565 - or four years they have to come back and kind of do this presentation of what they need. Does anyone 00:37:43.565 --> 00:37:51.003 - know if that's able to, can you interrupt that process? I'm sure you can. It's your ordinance. You can 00:37:51.003 --> 00:37:54.686 - do whatever you want with it. I'm not an attorney. 00:37:56.578 --> 00:38:10.313 - Do I do I do like this advice generally? I mean that do whatever you do whatever you can camp Thank 00:38:10.313 --> 00:38:24.734 - you Councilmember Piedmont Smith So going back to the memo about what had changed I don't understand how 00:38:26.370 --> 00:38:38.346 - The general fund budget deficit decreased about $2 million when we had to increase the salaries. So 00:38:38.346 --> 00:38:50.321 - there were more cuts than the increases. I don't understand. Because the deficit in the budget book 00:38:50.321 --> 00:38:55.710 - was $11 million, and now it's $9.48 million. 00:38:58.274 --> 00:39:25.310 - We made a lot of corrections. Come on, help me. Oh, yeah. Gretchen reminded me. 00:39:26.146 --> 00:39:34.691 - It's literally like the sausage, making the sausage is not pretty. There was an over $2 million error 00:39:34.691 --> 00:39:43.487 - somewhere between what was in New World and what was in the budget book. So that was corrected. I didn't 00:39:43.487 --> 00:39:45.246 - cut hardly anything. 00:40:00.770 --> 00:40:12.126 - Exporting I really yeah, this is really embarrassing because I don't remember exactly how it happened, 00:40:12.126 --> 00:40:24.254 - but it's it's better Exporting things from ESD from New World to the budget book. I made changes Yeah, please 00:40:27.170 --> 00:40:32.794 - So in this year's budget, she had done some things differently with ESD's budget as it's set up in New 00:40:32.794 --> 00:40:38.364 - World, for example, splitting it in ways so that they could see what are they spending on their three 00:40:38.364 --> 00:40:43.825 - different areas, arts, sustainability, and economic development. Actually, there's four. TDM is the 00:40:43.825 --> 00:40:49.613 - other one. And so when she did that, you may recall when we looked through their budgets and the exported 00:40:49.613 --> 00:40:55.128 - pages, those long line ones, some of you pointed out like these can't be right because these numbers 00:40:55.128 --> 00:40:55.838 - are missing. 00:40:56.194 --> 00:41:02.098 - I think that's where the error happened because we'd made this change in how those budgets were structured. 00:41:02.098 --> 00:41:07.564 - Those sheets are exported through a macro. Otherwise it takes a whole week to do them. So we made a 00:41:07.564 --> 00:41:13.358 - macro last year and the macro didn't account for some of these new divisions that we made. They're really 00:41:13.358 --> 00:41:18.989 - just for ESD to be able to track their own expenses internally better, but it created a problem in the 00:41:18.989 --> 00:41:21.886 - export. And so when we went back and corrected that, 00:41:22.050 --> 00:41:29.237 - Then we learned that the numbers that appeared in the budget book had carried over that error from the 00:41:29.237 --> 00:41:36.284 - export. They were correct in New World. It just didn't export correctly because of the way the macro 00:41:36.284 --> 00:41:43.401 - was structured. I think that's what happened. I actually I have a little time left. May I ask another 00:41:43.401 --> 00:41:51.006 - question. So it's good to hear that the ask me employees will get a 5 percent raise. Is that I assume I mean 00:41:51.202 --> 00:41:57.796 - Was that was there enough padding in the budget to allow for that? Yes, there is we did not have to 00:41:57.796 --> 00:42:04.523 - do make an increase because we had already built some padding into the budget for something for them. 00:42:04.523 --> 00:42:11.249 - Yes. Oh good. It was a lump sum in the other personal services line. And so now we're going to go and 00:42:11.249 --> 00:42:17.843 - make those adjustments before the beginning of next year into each one of those salary lines and it 00:42:17.843 --> 00:42:19.294 - won't change and then 00:42:19.810 --> 00:42:26.021 - remove that total amount from each one of those other personal services lines and The total of those 00:42:26.021 --> 00:42:32.662 - personal services lines won't change. It's just moving We'll just move it within the budget within category 00:42:32.662 --> 00:42:39.365 - one. Yeah within category one within each fund within each department It's already set up in each department 00:42:39.365 --> 00:42:45.514 - that has AFSCME employees So it's not at all like last year where we had six million dollars in the 00:42:45.514 --> 00:42:48.958 - human resources fund and we had to or account we had to 00:42:49.058 --> 00:42:56.682 - Move it to all the different funds. It's already in where it needs to be Okay, good. Thank you Councilmember 00:42:56.682 --> 00:43:03.746 - Stossberg Since you mentioned the personal services line I This is like nitpicky and weird maybe and 00:43:03.746 --> 00:43:10.880 - probably it has something to do with how the state wants you to report it but on those on that budget 00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:13.118 - estimate the budget form one is 00:43:13.250 --> 00:43:21.039 - The category is personal services, but all the personal services are spent on personnel. So why isn't 00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:28.904 - it personnel? Why is it personal services? Let me get down there. I just find that nonsensical because 00:43:28.904 --> 00:43:37.227 - those two words are so close to each other. It just feels like it's a language error, but it's so consistent 00:43:37.227 --> 00:43:42.878 - that I don't think it possibly can be, but I just would like to know why. 00:43:43.458 --> 00:43:49.922 - One thing I don't like is that it says personal services. I wish it said personnel services Well, right. 00:43:49.922 --> 00:43:56.140 - That's what I mean. Like why doesn't that say personnel services? Is that just a state? Yeah, that's 00:43:56.140 --> 00:44:02.358 - that all that that whole entire form is filled out by like a little like wizard That I entered those 00:44:02.358 --> 00:44:08.883 - dollar amounts into like I have a trick there's a drop-down and I pick those and we pick those categories 00:44:08.883 --> 00:44:11.038 - and and there's only personal like 00:44:11.682 --> 00:44:19.240 - That's salaries and wages, personal services. I just pick those categories and then enter the amounts. 00:44:19.240 --> 00:44:27.019 - So I don't have control over any of that. OK. So there's not a personnel category. Let's see. Yes. Right. 00:44:27.019 --> 00:44:34.651 - There is not a category that says personnel. It should say personnel. I don't know why it says personal 00:44:34.651 --> 00:44:41.182 - services. That's just not a thing. It's a really personal, honestly. It's very personal. 00:44:41.570 --> 00:44:49.565 - Why are we getting so personal? Yeah Trust me. I spent a lot of time changing I can change the wording 00:44:49.565 --> 00:44:57.560 - and we're in the column that says line item And I notice hopefully all of those say personnel services 00:44:57.560 --> 00:45:05.477 - I believe so all the ones that I have looked at I that's me necessarily I don't have any control over 00:45:05.477 --> 00:45:11.454 - that column that says personal services. Okay. Thank you Councilmember sorry 00:45:13.442 --> 00:45:21.618 - First, this might be just a silly question, or maybe I'm uninformed. On form 4B at the end of it, the 00:45:21.618 --> 00:45:29.955 - total is 163, 152, 557. Yes? 4B, 4B. At the end of the- Oh, up there. Let me get to the- Yeah, and then 00:45:29.955 --> 00:45:38.132 - in the memo, the number is 162, 556, 352. And I wasn't listening carefully enough when you introduced 00:45:38.132 --> 00:45:43.262 - the budget a second ago and gave the number in great eloquence. 00:45:43.874 --> 00:45:55.036 - All right, let's see here. We're gonna go to, that's transit. Let me go past transit. And then 25, 11. 00:45:55.036 --> 00:46:05.980 - So the form. Form four, I don't know if it's form B, I think it's just four. Form four. Yeah. So you 00:46:05.980 --> 00:46:13.566 - have to take the total on the first page, which is not, this may not, 00:46:14.722 --> 00:46:27.467 - Fingers crossed this adds up to the memo. The total on the first page is 110,184,108. And then you add 00:46:27.467 --> 00:46:40.211 - that to 52,968,449. And that is, I just added it today, is 163,152,557. All right, and let's check the 00:46:40.211 --> 00:46:42.686 - memo is on page 73. 00:46:44.258 --> 00:46:56.922 - Boy total budget is 160 says 162 556 352 I think that is because the memo we we have the memo From with 00:46:56.922 --> 00:47:09.342 - the total from New World and what we're advertising in the budget is slightly higher because the rate 00:47:09.858 --> 00:47:18.501 - For the QM CAP development fund is advertised slightly higher and it's producing it is actually producing 00:47:18.501 --> 00:47:26.655 - a higher budget than what we are approving than what we are going to use and that what we are going 00:47:26.655 --> 00:47:35.299 - to get just for that one fund because it is a rate controlled fund. These are. Yeah. OK. OK. I apologize. 00:47:35.299 --> 00:47:39.294 - These are very complicated things that it takes. 00:47:39.554 --> 00:47:48.232 - I don't know. I don't Want to bore it like I don't want to go over it ad nauseam budget hearing it's 00:47:48.232 --> 00:47:56.909 - gonna be okay I Hate that I have to tell you to trust me because I know you have to approve this and 00:47:56.909 --> 00:48:05.673 - vote on this We I mean I trust you but in the public, you know, the public has and you have to report 00:48:05.673 --> 00:48:08.766 - back to the public It will be right 00:48:11.522 --> 00:48:18.102 - And I think maybe the motivation of asking the question to your point about the public, I mean, we, 00:48:18.102 --> 00:48:25.208 - you know, the county last year made an accounting error that had a, right, so, you know, a million dollars, 00:48:25.208 --> 00:48:32.446 - you know, maybe. So just double checking that. And then in the change, I mean, still pulling, and then I have 00:48:32.642 --> 00:48:38.988 - I have this question and then if I have time, I'll ask one last question. But the pulling on this thread 00:48:38.988 --> 00:48:42.494 - again of the changes, we have talked a lot during budget. 00:48:42.882 --> 00:48:49.381 - budget proposal preparation, and then also in the budget hearings about the sort of circuit breaker. 00:48:49.381 --> 00:48:55.816 - To be honest, don't totally understand it. But the impact on the circuit breaker with SEA 1 and all 00:48:55.816 --> 00:49:02.380 - of that, did that go down or up between? Because I know that there were some changes in estimates and 00:49:02.380 --> 00:49:09.008 - actuals sort of between first preparation of the proposal and now. Was there any change in that impact 00:49:09.008 --> 00:49:11.646 - between now and what we're seeing today? 00:49:12.610 --> 00:49:20.471 - There isn't any change. The amount of money that we're going to lose to circuit breakers is baked into 00:49:20.471 --> 00:49:28.179 - the budget in this way that in our internal budget in New World, it's baked into the amount of money 00:49:28.179 --> 00:49:36.268 - we're going to collect from property taxes. So if we're going to collect $27 million from property taxes, 00:49:36.268 --> 00:49:39.550 - but we know we're going to get $1 million, 00:49:39.714 --> 00:49:47.656 - Losses, we're only budgeting for 26 million in property taxes However when we advertise and approve 00:49:47.656 --> 00:49:55.917 - the budget it's not baked in we're advertising and approving the full amount of property taxes we think 00:49:55.917 --> 00:50:04.574 - we're gonna get and That's just the way the forms work and that's just the way approving the budget works so 00:50:06.498 --> 00:50:13.403 - There's sort of like the budget we know that we're going to actually get and use is slightly different 00:50:13.403 --> 00:50:20.241 - from the budget that we're advertising and approving because things like the property tax, the losses 00:50:20.241 --> 00:50:27.146 - to the property tax credits aren't included in that full levy number. We're not going to get that full 00:50:27.146 --> 00:50:33.917 - levy. Things like the rate being a little bit higher, and that affects the CUME CAP development fund 00:50:33.917 --> 00:50:36.062 - and what we advertise for that. 00:50:36.162 --> 00:50:48.505 - Truly wish that it was more transparent like from the state down in that respect Thank you other questions 00:50:48.505 --> 00:51:00.618 - councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I just like to get down to Well, no, actually I want to take a higher 00:51:00.618 --> 00:51:05.694 - view 10,000 foot view so most of our budget 00:51:06.178 --> 00:51:14.937 - How much of our budget is property taxes and how much is income taxes? Can you remind us? Okay I have 00:51:14.937 --> 00:51:23.696 - property taxes up in front of me right now All right, I write this down 47 property taxes and this is 00:51:23.696 --> 00:51:32.284 - general and the geo bonds parks and rec MVH and the cube cap development fund forty six million two 00:51:32.284 --> 00:51:36.062 - hundred and sixteen thousand five forty two 00:51:36.450 --> 00:51:43.953 - But what what percent of our budget is that was that maybe in your introduction is August don't know 00:51:43.953 --> 00:51:51.382 - don't know the percent. I see it. It's thirty seven point four and it should be pretty close. Yeah. 00:51:51.382 --> 00:51:59.033 - So I'm sorry I have it thirty seven point four percent and then local income tax is thirty three point 00:51:59.033 --> 00:52:00.222 - one percent. So 00:52:00.962 --> 00:52:08.812 - When we look at the well-being of Bloomington into the future since a majority comes from those two 00:52:08.812 --> 00:52:17.134 - sources what should we be be focused on. I mean the way we get the the total assessed value of properties 00:52:17.134 --> 00:52:24.984 - in our county. Right. And that's what the property tax rates that would deter ultimately determines 00:52:24.984 --> 00:52:30.558 - the property tax rates. Is that right. Yeah. The total assessed value. 00:52:30.786 --> 00:52:40.038 - the total assessed value determines that And really are how much we raise in taxes is kind of out of 00:52:40.038 --> 00:52:49.198 - our control It raises by 4% every year. It's if like if you have 30 if you raise $38,000 this year, 00:52:49.198 --> 00:52:58.450 - you can raise 39 30 $40,000 next year but the rate is the levy divided by the The assessed certified 00:52:58.450 --> 00:53:00.190 - net assessed value 00:53:00.290 --> 00:53:09.912 - Yeah, right So we need to make sure that we we have we keep growing that certified net assessed value, 00:53:09.912 --> 00:53:19.441 - right? Yeah. Yeah This is a very Complex question. It's a very very good question. I think that There 00:53:19.441 --> 00:53:27.102 - are a lot of voices in the room that have things to add to this conversation I am 00:53:27.362 --> 00:53:34.064 - I think we have to think about growth, but you have to think about costs. I mean, I hear what Dave Raul 00:53:34.064 --> 00:53:40.831 - was saying. You always have to think about cost associated growth. Growth can raise your assessed value. 00:53:40.831 --> 00:53:47.533 - Growth can increase your income tax. The well-being of the citizens, what does that mean? Citizens want 00:53:47.533 --> 00:53:54.622 - low taxes, and also citizens want good services. It's a very complicated balancing act, and I think all of us 00:53:55.714 --> 00:54:04.069 - Do you want to speak? I really didn't want to get into that. I just wanted also for the public to understand, 00:54:04.069 --> 00:54:11.892 - you know, where do our revenues come from? Oh, yes. How is that figured? And the income tax, it's only 00:54:11.892 --> 00:54:20.019 - for people who live in the city limits, right? That's the only income tax we get as part of our government 00:54:20.019 --> 00:54:21.918 - revenues. Is that right? 00:54:22.114 --> 00:54:30.776 - As of right now we get income tax from the whole county but it will change to only people within in 00:54:30.776 --> 00:54:40.305 - city limits in twenty twenty eight. Okay so currently we get a proportion proportion based on our population. 00:54:40.305 --> 00:54:45.502 - So everybody in the county pays into and then pays into the 00:54:45.730 --> 00:54:52.869 - Local income tax and that lump sum is is given to us by a percentage of our population But starting 00:54:52.869 --> 00:55:00.294 - in 2028 only payers who actually live in the city will pay into the city local income tax Okay, so that 00:55:00.294 --> 00:55:07.434 - does change the the dynamics of who the payers are If there are people who live in Martinsville and 00:55:07.434 --> 00:55:13.502 - come down here to work their income taxes are going to Morgan County, right? Correct 00:55:13.890 --> 00:55:20.431 - Correct and conversely if we have somebody who lives in Bloomington but works in Martinsville Their 00:55:20.431 --> 00:55:26.971 - income taxes are coming to Monroe County, correct? Correct. Okay. Yes. I just want to you know kind 00:55:26.971 --> 00:55:33.643 - of Help explain to people how how we get these revenues how it's calculated and yes, and I agree It's 00:55:33.643 --> 00:55:40.445 - it's more complex than like we need to keep growing. Yeah Yeah, that's a whole nother conversation that 00:55:40.445 --> 00:55:43.454 - is worthy Thank you Yes, thank you for asking 00:55:44.930 --> 00:55:53.915 - Last question promise the so so just sort of wrapping up all my my questions and this evening is that 00:55:53.915 --> 00:56:03.075 - if If if it's the case that we're fairly certain that will get more into deficit spending probably than 00:56:03.075 --> 00:56:05.982 - we have in the past like we were 00:56:06.146 --> 00:56:13.730 - probably going to spend a bit more than we have. And when we talked about it during budget season, the 00:56:13.730 --> 00:56:21.167 - budget presentations, you all sighed a sigh of relief when we said, for example, that we didn't want 00:56:21.167 --> 00:56:28.751 - as many studies or things like that. And you said, yeah, we're happy to cut those things. And then now 00:56:28.751 --> 00:56:33.758 - we haven't actually cut those things. We found other places to cut. 00:56:33.954 --> 00:56:41.972 - My question, and I get that this is somewhat open-ended, but why not be more aggressive with our cuts? 00:56:41.972 --> 00:56:49.834 - If there's still some areas that, at some point, there was some relief to try to cut. Why are we not 00:56:49.834 --> 00:56:56.606 - being super aggressive with cuts here? It's because cutting things is a domino effect. 00:56:57.890 --> 00:57:03.445 - Cutting things like a study has a domino effect, and I will say that we were, it was very good for us 00:57:03.445 --> 00:57:08.945 - to understand that there isn't a huge appetite for more studies, and we'll definitely take that into 00:57:08.945 --> 00:57:14.445 - consideration in future budgets, but the time between the budget hearing and the budget adoption, we 00:57:14.445 --> 00:57:20.272 - just didn't feel like was the right time to actually dig into those kinds of cuts, especially for planning 00:57:20.272 --> 00:57:25.990 - studies. It just, like pulling the thread, sort of pull the string, it can sort of, it can really, would 00:57:25.990 --> 00:57:27.678 - you like to add anything else? 00:57:29.954 --> 00:57:35.675 - I think it's a great question and I think if we had more time between the budget hearings and making 00:57:35.675 --> 00:57:41.339 - that discovery now we might have been able to have those discussions but for now we'd rather put it 00:57:41.339 --> 00:57:47.059 - in the budget and then not spend it you know look sit down we have more time look at it and say okay 00:57:47.059 --> 00:57:49.438 - what's the impact of if we cut this study 00:57:49.602 --> 00:57:54.531 - That is tied to something else in the transportation plan and as a precursor to this other thing. What's 00:57:54.531 --> 00:57:59.225 - the ripple effect of that? And and I think we all know this but just to say it out loud cutting the 00:57:59.225 --> 00:58:02.558 - money from the study doesn't necessarily make there be enough money to 00:58:02.786 --> 00:58:09.364 - by far to do more, which is one of the things I took away from your comments was less study, more building. 00:58:09.364 --> 00:58:15.759 - But the building is way more expensive. And so cutting the studies won't make it possible to build more. 00:58:15.759 --> 00:58:22.032 - Yeah. And I think that that's sort of, you know, this is both maybe, it's a pseudo question, you know, 00:58:22.032 --> 00:58:28.184 - a comment on it. But that question of dependencies I get, right, that it's, you know, you pull this, 00:58:28.184 --> 00:58:32.752 - and we haven't had the time to track what those dependencies are in short. 00:58:32.752 --> 00:58:39.359 - But I think something that we should maybe you know consider some type of a doctrine for some of this 00:58:39.359 --> 00:58:46.226 - a strategy for In the context of our you know, and then also thinking about future revenues and pressures 00:58:46.226 --> 00:58:49.918 - that we're gonna face You know, I I think that we should 00:58:51.298 --> 00:58:56.642 - perhaps be ourselves thinking about those dependencies and as they unfurl, saying actually, you know, 00:58:56.642 --> 00:59:02.195 - we're not gonna touch some of the money that has been budgeted because of the fact that we realize that's 00:59:02.195 --> 00:59:07.853 - not, you know, super essential right now, even though we have the authority to do it, just sort of thinking 00:59:07.853 --> 00:59:13.301 - ahead of making sure that we both keeping the powder dry I get and also keeping our flexibility as much 00:59:13.301 --> 00:59:18.592 - as possible to sort of difficult decisions that we're making ahead. You know, I think that the thing 00:59:18.592 --> 00:59:21.264 - that I've said throughout these budget hearings is 00:59:21.264 --> 00:59:27.253 - In the in the cases and and I'm very grateful And I think that we should continue to repeat what you've 00:59:27.253 --> 00:59:33.070 - said very clearly here And I will continue to repeat this that the city is in a really good position 00:59:33.070 --> 00:59:39.002 - Financially and even after approving a deficit budget even if we spent that deficit budget We're still 00:59:39.002 --> 00:59:44.760 - in a good position financially. I think that's fantastic, but I do think that we need a strong Sort 00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:49.598 - of theory of change of like when you spend deficit and what is deficit spending on? 00:59:49.954 --> 00:59:55.022 - And I think to your point about dependency, I don't think we've really had the time to really formulate 00:59:55.022 --> 00:59:59.945 - that. But I think moving forward, it's something that throughout this next year, as we're continuing 00:59:59.945 --> 01:00:04.818 - to make further transitions in how we're budgeting, et cetera, it would be really good also to come 01:00:04.818 --> 01:00:07.742 - up with some strong sense of what we're trying to do there. 01:00:10.498 --> 01:00:17.939 - Yes. Yes. Thank you for. Yes. You echo our concerns. It's great to hear council members voicing you 01:00:17.939 --> 01:00:25.455 - know you yourself and other council members voicing those kinds of concerns and thoughts. And as you 01:00:25.455 --> 01:00:32.896 - all know the budget is a is a huge it this is a huge complex budget and we appreciate your interest 01:00:32.896 --> 01:00:39.742 - and yeah your your thoughts and help on that throughout next year in the future. Thank you. 01:00:40.034 --> 01:00:47.437 - Any other council member questions? Okay. In that case, we will move to the public comment section. 01:00:47.437 --> 01:00:54.987 - Controller McClellan, thank you for your presentation. This section constitutes a public hearing held 01:00:54.987 --> 01:01:02.464 - in accordance with Indiana Code Title 6, Article 1.1, Chapter 17, Section 3. If you are in chambers, 01:01:02.464 --> 01:01:08.830 - please approach the podium, state your name for the record, and sign in on the sheet. 01:01:10.946 --> 01:01:18.716 - Seeing none, if you are joining via Zoom, please raise your hand using the Reactions tab or send a message 01:01:18.716 --> 01:01:26.341 - to the host. We do have an online commenter. I will unmute them. Great, thank you. And online commenter, 01:01:26.341 --> 01:01:33.603 - please state your name, and you will have up to three minutes to give your comment. Thank you. Yes. 01:01:33.603 --> 01:01:40.574 - Kevin Keough. And keep in mind, my intention is to add value and also the goal of transparency. 01:01:40.770 --> 01:01:49.477 - The City of Bloomington's ACFR, the audit report is not for 12-31-24, has not been available for the 01:01:49.477 --> 01:01:58.184 - council and for the public to look at. And I think it would be of great value when you're discussing 01:01:58.184 --> 01:02:06.718 - the 2026 budget. Also, Isabel had a question that was answered in the budget book and it's on page 01:02:07.170 --> 01:02:15.518 - 87 is page 12 of the answers, but it even talks about the audit and specifically my concern, especially 01:02:15.518 --> 01:02:23.544 - after the discussion this evening, is about the completion. The 2023 was completed in the mid-July, 01:02:23.544 --> 01:02:31.972 - July 17th, and that's a year and a half afterwards, and I noticed in the answer it talks about the audit 01:02:31.972 --> 01:02:34.942 - is due September 30th, and you know, 01:02:35.106 --> 01:02:41.908 - I've been an auditor over 40 years, and I've closed a lot of books and done audits. Usually you want 01:02:41.908 --> 01:02:48.845 - those audits to be timely. And usually when I mean timely, you know, 90 days, 60 to 90 days after year 01:02:48.845 --> 01:02:53.694 - in, you want them done. You want to close the books, get it behind you. 01:02:54.498 --> 01:03:01.720 - And it seems the answer said something about a due date of September 30th, which has concerned me. And 01:03:01.720 --> 01:03:08.872 - I tried to Google it and look it up. And I get conflicting information. And it talks about April 1st, 01:03:08.872 --> 01:03:16.234 - that being the due date for the audit. So I'd like to see that clear. Plus, again, adding value. I would 01:03:16.234 --> 01:03:22.334 - really emphasize how closing the books, getting the audit done within a timely period. 01:03:22.690 --> 01:03:30.050 - And 90 days, I believe, is a timely period. It really helps you when you start preparing this year's 01:03:30.050 --> 01:03:37.410 - budget and getting prepared for the discussions we're having tonight. And it just cleans things out. 01:03:37.410 --> 01:03:44.478 - So I'm very concerned about that. And another reason as a member of the public why I'm concerned 01:03:44.674 --> 01:03:54.202 - And these are actual numbers. My numbers, I know they're correct. My property taxes increased over 20% 01:03:54.202 --> 01:04:03.914 - last year. It was 20.69%. The three years before that, it averaged over 10.5% each year. So my property, 01:04:03.914 --> 01:04:12.702 - this is why it's so important and these discussions are so important. This is not sustainable. 01:04:13.666 --> 01:04:20.750 - And, you know, it's a lifelong citizen of Bloomington. I know you talked about COLA, you know, cost 01:04:20.750 --> 01:04:28.330 - of living has been four and a half, and this year may be under 3%. Look at these percentages, the property 01:04:28.330 --> 01:04:35.839 - taxes have been increasing. I know my time's coming up. Thank you so much for this opportunity to present 01:04:35.839 --> 01:04:41.790 - public comment. Thank you. Do we have any other takers on Zoom? Anyone in chambers? 01:04:43.010 --> 01:04:52.085 - OK, thank you. That concludes our final public comment period. And now we'll go back to councilmembers 01:04:52.085 --> 01:05:01.337 - for additional questions and comments. Councilmember Stosberg. I just have a closing comment, I suppose. 01:05:01.337 --> 01:05:10.324 - Councilmember Saris' comment about studies reminded me of the answer. So in the packet, Councilmember 01:05:10.324 --> 01:05:11.646 - Piedmont-Smith 01:05:11.746 --> 01:05:18.362 - asked planning about those corridor studies. She kind of followed up on that. And part of the answer 01:05:18.362 --> 01:05:25.371 - there made me feel a little bit better about it. Part of the answer was that the corridor studies maintain 01:05:25.371 --> 01:05:31.921 - relevance for longer than engineering studies and differentiating between an engineering plan and a 01:05:31.921 --> 01:05:33.886 - corridor study. And also that 01:05:34.114 --> 01:05:42.685 - once you do the study, then you just have more information with which to budget with. And so in my mind, 01:05:42.685 --> 01:05:51.012 - in terms of differentiating that and keeping those things in the budget, that answer gave me a lot of 01:05:51.012 --> 01:05:59.338 - clarity. So I just want to point that out in case folks didn't see that. I also wanted to, I suppose, 01:05:59.338 --> 01:06:00.318 - speak sadly 01:06:00.418 --> 01:06:07.197 - Following up about the sanitation needs and it's never pleasant to think about Potential rate increases 01:06:07.197 --> 01:06:13.977 - and I know we have this water rate increase electrical rates have increased Utilities are It feels like 01:06:13.977 --> 01:06:20.756 - they're just increasing all over the place multiple times and it's it's really not great but we're also 01:06:20.756 --> 01:06:27.471 - faced with the reality of an increased cost of doing business and then an expected future of decreased 01:06:27.471 --> 01:06:28.318 - revenues and 01:06:28.450 --> 01:06:34.794 - and having to tighten in different places. And so I just wanted to lift that up as something that I'm 01:06:34.794 --> 01:06:41.139 - cognizant of and that it's really challenging to think about balancing all of those competing forces. 01:06:41.139 --> 01:06:47.421 - And then the last thing that I wanted to, especially with regard to Mr. Keough's comment about taxes 01:06:47.421 --> 01:06:54.014 - increasing, is differentiating the difference between our tax rate, which has not particularly increased, 01:06:54.146 --> 01:07:01.269 - The assessed valuation of our properties and it's the assessed valuation of properties in Bloomington 01:07:01.269 --> 01:07:08.392 - that has gone up a lot in the last I would say maybe even five years It has gone up a lot my property 01:07:08.392 --> 01:07:15.514 - taxes the the bottom line number of how much I have to pay It is kind of astounding at how much I was 01:07:15.514 --> 01:07:19.774 - paying say ten years ago versus how much I'm paying here now 01:07:20.194 --> 01:07:26.524 - But I also want to point out that the actual tax rate, if you look at your tax bills, is quite low. 01:07:26.524 --> 01:07:32.918 - And for a long time, our family also held property in Wayne County, Indiana, because that's where we 01:07:32.918 --> 01:07:39.564 - moved from. And we could not sell our houses there very easily. So I was also paying property tax there. 01:07:39.564 --> 01:07:46.274 - And my property tax rate for Wayne County, Indiana was twice that as it was here in Monroe County, twice. 01:07:46.274 --> 01:07:49.566 - But the actual dollar amount I was paying was half. 01:07:50.562 --> 01:07:57.680 - because the property values in Wayne County were so much lower, are so much lower than property values 01:07:57.680 --> 01:08:04.937 - in Monroe County. So it is a double-edged sword when your home is worth a lot because then you're paying 01:08:04.937 --> 01:08:11.710 - more in taxes. But that assessed value is something that we can't control. We can't control that. 01:08:11.906 --> 01:08:19.433 - as as City Council as the city as Controller McClellan was saying, you know, we only have so much control 01:08:19.433 --> 01:08:26.676 - over Property taxes and and the rate has stayed pretty stable over the last several years Right about 01:08:26.676 --> 01:08:33.847 - two ish percent. I think in terms of what goes to city taxes. So Anyway, those are the things that I 01:08:33.847 --> 01:08:41.374 - wanted to just speak to during this comment time. So thank you very much Thank You councilmember Stasberg 01:08:41.890 --> 01:08:53.257 - Councilmember Rallo Yes, um, could could I follow up with a question? For controller McClellan Could 01:08:53.257 --> 01:09:04.737 - could I ask Controller could I could I ask a quick question just as a follow-up because the ACFR that 01:09:04.737 --> 01:09:10.590 - Mr. Keel referenced Could you could you explain the 01:09:11.138 --> 01:09:19.264 - the lack of posting and when it will and and what do you have a comment about timeliness of of that 01:09:19.264 --> 01:09:27.553 - for When we start this mayor thompson's administration in January of 24 the 2022 akfers what we refer 01:09:27.553 --> 01:09:36.085 - to it had just been completed in december of 2023 And so we have spent the last year and a half catching 01:09:36.085 --> 01:09:40.798 - up on akfers that haven't been completed timely um, so we 01:09:41.058 --> 01:09:48.126 - caught up on 23. No, actually the 2021 had just been completed when we 01:09:48.290 --> 01:09:55.173 - When mayor Thompson took office then last year we completed the 2022 we did the 2023 and we're working 01:09:55.173 --> 01:10:01.990 - on the 2024 right now So we hope to have the 20 we will have the 2024 done by the end of the year And 01:10:01.990 --> 01:10:08.672 - then next year we will be on a normal cycle of having those completed by September 30th of the year 01:10:08.672 --> 01:10:15.422 - And then the April 1st deadline is for there's a there's a smaller financial report due to the state 01:10:15.650 --> 01:10:22.889 - April 1st, it's called the annual financial report is the AFR. It's a much more smaller It's not as 01:10:22.889 --> 01:10:30.129 - detailed as the AK for that's the April 1st report and those are have all been completed timely But 01:10:30.129 --> 01:10:37.585 - I see that on the website Well, hopefully that satisfies mr. Keough. So thank you for that That that's 01:10:37.585 --> 01:10:44.318 - very good. I just wanted to say Express my appreciation for the 0.7 percent increase in cola 01:10:44.482 --> 01:10:54.519 - You know We fell behind in the early 20s When inflation was ramping up The administration at that time 01:10:54.519 --> 01:11:05.043 - did not keep pace. It was a real worry for a lot of us I know that we had to play catch-up and I appreciate 01:11:05.043 --> 01:11:12.254 - this administration's raising salaries as per the As per the salary study 01:11:12.642 --> 01:11:20.167 - I appreciate that. We're keeping up with the CPI Also recognizing that you know, we live in a city that's 01:11:20.167 --> 01:11:27.408 - 19% more expensive than most cities in Indiana and 4% More expensive than the national average. So if 01:11:27.408 --> 01:11:34.791 - that continues pace then we're You know people are challenged in this community financially and we want 01:11:34.791 --> 01:11:42.174 - to make sure that as a major employer and of course that the employees of the city are compensated so I 01:11:42.562 --> 01:11:51.261 - Appreciate your your work on that. Thank you Any other comments or final questions In that case I will 01:11:51.261 --> 01:11:59.706 - entertain a motion Councilmember Stasburg. Thank you I would like to move that the committee of the 01:11:59.706 --> 01:12:08.236 - whole make a recommendation to the council for the adoption of appropriation ordinance 2025 11 Clerk 01:12:08.236 --> 01:12:11.614 - Bolton, would you please call the roll? 01:12:14.754 --> 01:12:25.886 - Yes Stasberg, yes Rosenberger. Yes Sorry, yes Rallo. Yes Piedmont Smith. Yes With the vote of six Oh 01:12:25.886 --> 01:12:37.349 - that passes and we have come to the conclusion of all of our agenda items on our committee of the whole 01:12:37.349 --> 01:12:42.750 - meeting so I will entertain a closing motion and 01:12:45.666 --> 01:12:52.734 - to adjourn we second I turned