- Call the committee of the whole to order and we will start with appropriation ordinance 2025-13 the
- council will now receive a presentation from Katlyn Sager director of the utilities department Welcome,
- please state your name for the record and Kat Sager utilities director. I'm presenting the ordinance
- adopting the
- budget for the operation maintenance debt service and capital improvements for the water and wastewater
- utility departments for the city of Bloomington, Indiana for the year 2026. Our water utility budget
- totals $23,119,000. And our wastewater utility budget is $34,590,000. Happy to take any questions.
- Thank you. The floor is now open for questions from council members under Bloomington municipal code
- section two point zero four point two five zero Parentheses see there is no limit on how often a member
- may speak However, no member may speak for longer than five minutes at a time any questions From council
- members councilmember Piedmont Smith
- Yes, I asked this in the written questions, and you answered, but I still don't understand. So I'm hoping
- to get some clarity. And that is the extensions and replacements under section one of the water utility
- is a negative amount, negative $603,000. Why are we budgeting a negative amount? Yeah, sure.
- So I'll answer that question. Also, another question I receive around the same topic. So when you look
- at our budget, there's actuals and then our budgeted amount. The actuals are zero or close to zero because we don't
- Charge things to extensions and replacements Extensions and replacements is how we balance our water
- budget which needs to be a net zero budget So when we have a positive extensions and replacements, we
- use that for things like unexpected Expenses and maintenance when it is negative. It's indicative of
- a shortfall which I discussed during our budget presentation and
- That shortfall we are planning on taking a one-time loan from our sewer utility to make up for that
- That helper Yes, so what why is why is it called extensions and replacements Just historical yeah, it's
- a historical name for it and
- It doesn't actually refer to extending or replacing people assume it means it's physically extending
- and replacing pipe But that's not the meaning of it. No, so it's its own fund. Yes. Okay. All right.
- Thank you Any other councilmembers have questions Councilmember Rallo I had a question forgot to ask
- it during budget and that is I'm curious to know what our
- current spare capacity is of our water treatment plant in other words, where are we in terms of it's
- you know, we we had improvements about 10 or 12 years ago, maybe more 15 years ago, and I don't think
- there have been any other expansion since then Where are we? I think the maximum was about 34 million
- per day or so
- So the maximum capacity of our water treatment plant is 30 million gallons per day We average around
- 15 with highs around 19 to 20 Okay, so we're well within Our we have a lot of spare capacity. Yes, we
- maintain capacity. Okay Great. Thank you Okay, we will now take public comment
- Members of the public may provide comments. If you are in chamber, please approach the podium, state
- your name for the record, sign in on the sheet and speak directly into the microphone. Not seeing anyone
- in chambers. If you are joining via zoom, please raise your hand by using the reactions tab or send
- a message to the host. Each speaker will have three minutes to share their comments. Do we have any
- speakers on zoom? No, we do not. Thank you.
- Any takers in the chambers? Okay in that case that will end our public comment period and I will return
- the floor to council members to ask any additional questions or provide any further comment Councilmember
- Piedmont Smith So just to clarify for the public this budget does not assume any rate increases, is
- that correct?
- budget does not assume a rate increase and we'll be talking about that soon in this body. Yes we will
- be talking about that soon here. Thank you. Any other comments. OK. In that case I will entertain any
- motions at this time.
- I move that the committee of the whole make a recommendation to the council for the adoption of appropriation
- ordinance twenty twenty five dash thirteen. Clerk Bolden will you please call the roll. Absolutely.
- Piedmont Smith. Yes. Stasberg. Yes. Daily. Yes. Sulek. Yes. Rosenberger.
- Yes. Sorry. Yes. Thank you. With a vote of seven zero that motion passes and now we'll move
- on to appropriation ordinance twenty five dash twelve and the council will now receive a presentation
- from John Connell general manager of Bloomington transit. Mr. Connell if you could introduce yourself
- for the record.
- Thank you for being a general manager of Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation respectfully
- request an approval of this appropriation ordinance establishing the Bloomington Public Transportation
- Corporation's twenty twenty six budget. There are no changes been made to the twenty twenty six budget
- since the August council meeting and presentation. The total of the twenty
- 2026 budget is 19 million three hundred and eighty three thousand four hundred and two dollars with
- a proposed property tax rate of point zero three seven one Thank you so much for your presentation at
- this point the floor is open for questions from council members as a reminder There is no limit on how
- often a member may speak but no longer than five minutes at a time any questions
- Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yes, how does the 0.0371 rate compare with the 2025 rate? So the 25 rate
- was 0.0 403 but the 25 budget was 32 million as opposed to 19 million so they 20 the 2025 budget Had
- significant amount of capital programming So it's there's a reduction this year
- Believe it's 72 percent in our capital budget Thank you Councilmember Stossberg Thank you. I have a
- question about the
- The budget form to estimate of miscellaneous revenue. There's two parts of it. One is Revenue code are
- one one nine, which has a state federal and local payments in lieu of taxes and in 2025 that numbers
- zero But then in 2026, we're expecting over six million dollars and I just want to understand First
- where that revenue source is coming from Which former young
- Budget form to estimate of miscellaneous revenue. That's what it is titled in our packet And then it's
- the third line that in 2025 was zero and then in 2026 is estimated to be six and a half million almost
- So the six
- 6.4 that includes the ED lit that we Received from the city in addition to the PMTF, which is the public
- mass transportation fund Forms of revenue though for BT because they're they are existing I'll have
- to Check with our controller. I'm not quite certain of
- Why that that would be zero Okay If you could give me that answer of why 2025 was zero that would be
- great or if that's an error on that form I have another question about that form to you, but I'll yield
- back to another member if they have question Do any other council members have questions at this time?
- To you councilmember Stilesburg. Okay And then on that format also in the second line from the bottom
- the other charges for services sales and fees that's also Increasing by over a million dollars. So I'm
- just wondering if you're Are you raising rates or do you think that there's your ridership numbers up
- like what accounts for that just over a million dollars of increase expectation for revenue
- That is, let me go back to the revenue side here.
- That is the increase from the Partnership agreements that we have that includes the Monroe County service
- as well. Okay That makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much Great Councilmember Piedmont Smith well,
- I just wanted to thank council member Stossberg for her question about the
- Huge increase in the state federal and local payments in lieu of taxes. I wonder if I'm looking at the
- next line federal and state grants and distributions which was fourteen point seven million is last
- or for the second half of 25 and Is down to six point four million next year. I wonder if that line
- was lit up for next year Yeah, so that that includes the so the federal for the federal grant that
- Like I mentioned in 25 we had the budget was almost twice of what it is this year and that was driven
- by that infusion of federal dollars that is not being reflected in in the current year. So you are correct
- there. That does have an impact on that number. OK. But yeah but it's not it's not part of the pilot.
- Yeah that's totally separate. OK I understand that line is so much decreased because we just don't have
- any grants coming in. Yeah. Well our capital budget is 72 percent lower this year than it was last year.
- OK. Well I'm looking forward to getting the answer for OK. I can I can the state and local payments.
- Thank you. Other questions.
- Seeing none, we will move into public comment on appropriation ordinance 2025-12. Mr. Connell, thank
- you so much for your presentation. This section constitutes a public hearing held in accordance with
- Indiana Code Title 6, Article 1.1, Chapter 17, Section 3. If you are in the chamber, please approach
- the podium, state your name for the record, and sign in on the sheet.
- If you are joining via Zoom, please raise your hand using the reactions tab or send a message to the
- host. Each speaker will have three minutes to share their comments. Do we have any takers on Zoom? No.
- Great. Thank you. Last chance for chambers. Seeing none, that will conclude our public comment period.
- And we will return to council members to ask questions or offer any comments. Council members.
- Councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I just wanted to Wish mr. Connell and his staff luck in finding a
- new location for the Transportation Center. I know that you're outgrowing your current location. So
- I hope hopefully that'll move along in the coming year We're getting closer. Thank you Any other questions
- or comments Seeing none I am happy to entertain a motion. I
- That the committee of the whole make a recommendation to the council for adoption of appropriation ordinance
- 2025-13 Okay, I rescind that I move that the committee of the whole make a recommendation to the council
- for the adoption of appropriation ordinance 2025-12 Clerk Bolton, would you please call the roll? Yes, yes Yes
- Daily. Yes. Stasburg. Yes. Rosenberger. Yes. Sorry. Yes. And Rallo. Yes. Great. With a vote of seven
- dash zero that ordinary appropriation ordinance passes as well. Moving right along into appropriation
- ordinance twenty five dash eleven or twenty twenty five dash eleven. The council will now receive a
- presentation from Jessica McClellan city controller.
- Good evening council Jessica McClellan city controller. I respectfully request your consideration in
- approval of ordinance 2025 dash 11 the budget for the civil city of Bloomington for a total of 163 million
- 152 thousand five hundred and fifty seven dollars
- That is a total that has been noted had the public notice published in the form three and the ordinance
- that is before you as the form four. We have a memo that we've submitted that go through some of the
- changes that we made. The most substantial change that we made between the budget hearings and tonight
- is that we added point seven percent to the cola for a total cola of two point seven percent for all
- non-union regular appointed employees.
- Other employees such as a police and fire already had their budgeted three percent increase for cola
- and for AFSCME we have
- We've agreed with AFSCME to give them a 5% increase for next year, but we have not closed AFSCME negotiations
- yet, and those continue on their contract, but they will be getting an increase in their salary nonetheless
- of 5% for next year while we work on those negotiations. Those are the most substantial changes to the
- budget since when they presented to you in budget hearings. There have been minor corrections to things like
- Like a little bit too much health insurance or a little bit too much of the deferred compensation match
- things like that in the personnel budget We went through and audited all of that and corrected that
- And at this point, I'd be happy to take any questions that you have either about the budget in total
- details things you'd like to for me to follow up on and the advertised rate
- Thank you so much controller McClellan for that presentation. The floor is now open for questions from
- council members. As a reminder, no limit on how often a member may speak, but there is a five minute
- at a time requirement. So any questions? Council member Stosberg. Thank you. So I was trying to compare
- the adopted tax rates for this budget that were being presented
- for next year to the one that we were presented last year for this year. And it last year's packet doesn't
- quite align in quite the same way in terms of how things look. And so I was having a hard time doing
- that. So if you could just run through the differences between the tax rate this year and the tax rate
- last year and how that might be reflected for people in terms of
- their actual bills, because at least one of them on the ordinance or resolution for appropriations and
- tax rates that this year is 1.3632, last year's was 1.0414, which is definitely an increase. But then
- it looked like for lots of different funds, they were all a little different. And they had their own
- page. And I couldn't align all of them with last year's. So if you could go through that, that would be great.
- Yeah, this is I'd be happy to go over that and for the public and for the council. This is the most
- confusing and honestly Sort of nonsensical part of approving this budget and for that I apologize There's
- okay. We're gonna talk right now real quick about the ordinance ordinance number 25 11 on the bottom
- of that first page you'll see that you're adopting a tax rate of 1.36
- Okay, first throw that number out the window. That is not going to be the tax rate and that is the most
- nonsensical part of this whole presentation. It's because this is where the thing comes in where we
- say we advertise high. That rate is advertised high. It's not going to be 1.36. We advertise a high
- rate because the DLGF is going to set our rate. They're gonna take our actual certified net assessed value
- Divide it by these actual these are actually our budget. This is our actual budget numbers and your
- actual levy numbers But the DLGF is going to come up with the perfect rate that gets us our full amount
- of budget and we're going to advertise high a high rate So that they have a lot of leeway to give us
- the rate that we need Okay, and now I'm going to talk about something that is not in your packet somewhere
- this year 2025 the city of Bloomington's actual tax rate is
- 0.8 7 8 6 2 7 the actual tax rate for the city of Bloomington is 0.8 6 2 7 and We can and we've estimated
- the actual tax rate for the city of Bloomington next year is going to be 0.8 4 2 6 so 0.8 6 2 7 to 0.8
- 4 2 6 it'll be somewhere around 0.8 4 2 6 and
- somewhere around that and we'll we'll know when the DLGF reviews our budget certifies our budget and
- gives us our actual rate. We advertise high because there is rounding and there is this thing where
- if we add if you guys approve a rate that's like
- one percentage, like one hundredth of a percentage point too low, but the DLGF could have given us one
- percentage point higher to get us closer to our budget, we could lose out on like 10, 20 thousand dollars.
- So, it's not a great answer to your question, like we can't line up, why is that 1.3% different than
- the 1.4 or 2% that it was last year? But I do want to tell you that
- We and we estimate that next year Bloomington civil cities tax rate will go down Okay, thank you you're
- welcome other questions councilmember, sorry, I
- Thank you so much as always. First question is yesterday when the county decided to bond that raised
- a big question mark right of the with SEA 1 etc. How are they able to do that. I'll speak in general
- terms because I don't know exactly what they're doing. I know generally what they're doing a six year bond.
- is considered a longer is not is not considered a short term bond. If it's not a short term bond it's
- not subject to the cooling off requirements. We did not consider a six year bond just for general city
- operations like we did last year because we're considering bonds for much bigger projects right now.
- And we want to kind of keep our powder dry so to speak.
- We're not ready to just like yes, we do need to bond to like our short-term bond process that we tried
- to start last year like we have to reanalyze that and we also have big projects that we need to complete
- and so we just Did not consider something like a six-year bond and it's happening because it's not a
- short-term bond and not subject to the cooling off period that makes total sense and then as far as I know I
- Yeah, yeah. And actually, thank you. You anticipated the question I was going to ask is whether we consider
- that. The second question that I have was around this ongoing conversation that we've been having from
- day one of budget about the accuracy of our projected deficit. In the time in between since we started
- these conversations and now, how confident do you feel in the likelihood that we actually approach that?
- That deficit spending this year, which would be which would be a unique thing in Bloomington's history
- Alright, so I think what you're if I'll give some history to like other to members of the public other
- people here tonight That we typically don't spend our entire budget So when we plan for our budget next
- year, we have to assume we're gonna spend our whole budget this year And that typically doesn't happen
- mostly because of personnel expenses that don't get spent and so we are
- projecting a nine million nine point four million dollar deficit at the end of next year, but There's
- a very good chance That we will have left less of a deficit because we might only spend 90% We're projecting
- to spend about 90% of our budget this year Which will improve our deficit position this year and next
- year. So we estimate around 90% which is about where we have been hovering and
- Excellent. And then this is a super minor question. In the packet, I'm supposing that the squares on
- the Excel sheet weren't large enough before it was converted to a PDF. So there's five items that don't
- actually have numbers, but they have hashes. And I'm sure we've seen these actual numbers in another
- place, but may be worth getting.
- Council staff was awesome enough to send out a packet addendum, a packet addendum. Did that come out
- like yesterday or the day before? And it does have, yes, it does have all the numbers. And actually,
- as a point to that sheet, there's an error that I made on that sheet. I entered, there's a whole line
- on there about engineering, ED lit,
- engineering design and right-of-way acquisition for college and walnut and then it has a bunch of hash
- marks those hash marks should say 1.4 million that is just an Oopsie that is not a thing So the revised
- version of that will just have that it's not even in the addendum. We just found that today Thank you.
- You're welcome
- Explanation referring to the table that you were speaking about with the adopted tax rate of one point
- three six Etc You've got the adopted budget the adopted tax levy and then the various rates Are they
- you've overestimated? As you explained are they all overestimated by the same increment?
- Yes, they are all overestimated by the same increment, but that only applies to funds with an adopted
- tax levy So general fund parks MVH The bond funds So The adopted budget will stay the same the adopted
- levy will stay the same it's just when I
- You can't see it on this form, but this form is created by another form in which I enter the CNAV, and
- I enter the CNAV as $4.3 billion. Our certified net assessed value is $5.4 billion. And so that difference
- between $4.3 billion and $5.4, that's what makes the rate higher. So those dollar amounts that you see
- will stay exactly the same, and then the rates will go down.
- Okay I see. Thank you. That's clarity. Smith. What has changed since the budget hearings that eight
- hundred eighty three thousand six ninety nine was added to the sanitation fund support. So that's huge.
- It was already it was seven hundred thousand. So that's.
- More than doubling what the proposed to be moved from the general fund to the sanitation fund. Yes.
- Could you speak to why that is. Yes definitely. The sanitation fund is a self-contained fund. Think
- of it like a little business. It is all the revenue that comes from sanitation goes into one fund and
- all the expenses that come from sanitation are in one fund and it's it's
- It's like a simple business. We are not charging enough for sanitation. And so we're falling short on
- revenue. So we're going to come with back to you and we're going to give you all the information about
- you know what we need what what it costs what we're doing what we could be doing what we could change.
- We're going to come back to you and you and we're going to ask the council to decide there's there's
- really two options.
- You know a combination of these two options. We continue to support it with general fund Which is totally
- fine or we raise rates and ask that the the resident To pay for the actual cost of service right now
- We're not charging for the actual cost of service and so we will bring that information to you because
- we want you to make a You know an informed decision in either way is fine, but you just need to know
- you know you can make that decision and
- We will get out of this situation or we can agree that we want to support it through the general fund
- So right now we're supporting it through the general fund As just kind of a Way to make it work but
- I feel like you guys need all the information to either to make the decision of what you really want
- to do with that with with that service that we provide as a city and
- Yes we had that discussion two years ago. Even I and I understand there's a subsidy for sanitation services
- but why is this this is more than half a million dollars increase between last year 2024 actuals and
- what you're proposing for 2026. So have the expenses gone that much higher.
- What is going on? I went back and this again this information. Well, we will bring this information
- all to you in more detail It's not in this packet I went back and looked at what the actual general
- fund support has been over the years and it's been it does hover around You know like 900 to a little
- bit over a million 1.5 is high a lot of and
- We will be coming back to you this year for more support in the sanitation fund. We don't know what
- that will be yet because we want to wait till the end of the year because we only want to ask for exactly
- what we need. I don't think it will be one point five million next year because of things like employee
- retention like vacancies and employment that kind of thing. But to balance the budget we have to advertise
- We have to advertise for that kind of revenue support in the general fund. I don't think that we will
- actually need that much next year But that is what is needed like sort of on paper to make to make our
- actual expenses if every position is filled and we Spend as much as we have budgeted for like fuel and
- repair and supplies and uniforms
- If we spend everything that is budgeted, we will need that much. But there's a very good chance that
- we won't spend that much. However, we usually subsidize it by around a million dollars. And I don't
- think we will need $1.5 million next year, but we will need around a million unless we change something.
- So between the budget hearings and today, or the creation of this packet,
- The I guess the expenditures Must have increased. Can we see the new sheets that show how they've increased?
- That oh gosh That was an aspirational budget on on our on our part purely purely on my part I thought
- that we would be able to find a way to cut their expenses to get it down to make 700,000 work and we
- we could not we did not and
- We did not increase we increase their expenses by like the AFSCME contract only by salaries We did increase
- their budget through salaries But we did not increase any of their other kind other expenses and I wish
- I should have presented a budget to you in the budget hearings that had more of general fund support
- But I thought that there would be a way that I could find a way to make it work and I could not
- That's purely yeah all that it is. I I think if I showed you I don't think I have that version of those
- Those like financial reports with the 700 I mean I could easily recreate it and it would have showed
- a deficit budget I think there might have been a deficit budget in the budget book, but For now, so
- thank you Councilmember Stasburg I'll follow up on that a little bit just for
- some clarity. So I think I just heard you say that sanitation is going to need an additional appropriation
- for 2025. Yes. OK. And.
- What I heard, because I asked Director Wason about this during his presentation, too, because the $700,000
- that was budgeted was substantially less than past years. And he said, well, worse comes to worse. We'll
- just need an additional appropriation next year. So what you just said is to basically make it work
- out on paper to the satisfaction of the state. We have to additionally budget the subsidy now, even
- if it doesn't get used later. Yes.
- Right. Yes. Yes, that is very true and like it's like a budget and in actual like every day every month
- we check that fund and it's hovering right around zero and then over time it gets further and you know,
- it gets more and more and more into the negative and then at the end of the year we come back and we
- bring it back to zero and then we hope You know, we hope that the revenues next year will cover the
- costs and they never do and they they're not going to Until we raise them like it's just not
- It's just It just doesn't make any budgetary sense so Now we have to do something Mm-hmm, but you know,
- there's options the city could decide literally it can be your choice to fund it with a general fund
- That's totally fine. But I just want you to have all the information and you to make that choice Okay,
- thank you. Um, and then I think I had one other
- unrelated question, but now I can't find it, so I'll just... Other questions? Oh, Council Member Asari. Hello.
- Well, actually, let me ask the other question, because I lost my train of thought on that point. When
- we talked about the increasing COLA, we had originally proposed cutting a handful of things, particularly
- around, I think, consulting fees and studies and the like. Did those get cut, or? Yes. OK, so. I can
- tell you that. Yeah, tell us that, because what was removed from the budget was not in the memo.
- Yeah, the most substantial one is I cut 127,000 from legal services, special legal services in the legal
- department. And if you remember, there was just around 900,000 special legal services. And it was definitely
- like a cushion. We never spend that much. It might be used. It's nice to have. And I thought that was
- a great place to transfer some of that into the COLA.
- And then that's just general fund. And then there's other funds that don't really have that much cushion,
- but they didn't have that much I needed to cut. So I found things like, I don't know, uniforms look
- like you budget this much and you only spend 75% most years. So I cut a little bit out of something
- like that.
- Following on then on the question of sanitation just general information how can we set rates in the
- middle of the year? Does that happen once a year during does do the rates for sanitation get set during
- budget or can we change those at some point during the year? Those don't get set during budget. They
- I've never done a sanitation rate set So I hope I'm not speaking on a turn, but I believe sanitation
- comes public works comes you the council approves like a multi-year range and
- And so that was, I think that was done in 2022 or 2023. So that range is set and then like every three
- or four years they have to come back and kind of do this presentation of what they need. Does anyone
- know if that's able to, can you interrupt that process? I'm sure you can. It's your ordinance. You can
- do whatever you want with it. I'm not an attorney.
- Do I do I do like this advice generally? I mean that do whatever you do whatever you can camp Thank
- you Councilmember Piedmont Smith So going back to the memo about what had changed I don't understand how
- The general fund budget deficit decreased about $2 million when we had to increase the salaries. So
- there were more cuts than the increases. I don't understand. Because the deficit in the budget book
- was $11 million, and now it's $9.48 million.
- We made a lot of corrections. Come on, help me. Oh, yeah. Gretchen reminded me.
- It's literally like the sausage, making the sausage is not pretty. There was an over $2 million error
- somewhere between what was in New World and what was in the budget book. So that was corrected. I didn't
- cut hardly anything.
- Exporting I really yeah, this is really embarrassing because I don't remember exactly how it happened,
- but it's it's better Exporting things from ESD from New World to the budget book. I made changes Yeah, please
- So in this year's budget, she had done some things differently with ESD's budget as it's set up in New
- World, for example, splitting it in ways so that they could see what are they spending on their three
- different areas, arts, sustainability, and economic development. Actually, there's four. TDM is the
- other one. And so when she did that, you may recall when we looked through their budgets and the exported
- pages, those long line ones, some of you pointed out like these can't be right because these numbers
- are missing.
- I think that's where the error happened because we'd made this change in how those budgets were structured.
- Those sheets are exported through a macro. Otherwise it takes a whole week to do them. So we made a
- macro last year and the macro didn't account for some of these new divisions that we made. They're really
- just for ESD to be able to track their own expenses internally better, but it created a problem in the
- export. And so when we went back and corrected that,
- Then we learned that the numbers that appeared in the budget book had carried over that error from the
- export. They were correct in New World. It just didn't export correctly because of the way the macro
- was structured. I think that's what happened. I actually I have a little time left. May I ask another
- question. So it's good to hear that the ask me employees will get a 5 percent raise. Is that I assume I mean
- Was that was there enough padding in the budget to allow for that? Yes, there is we did not have to
- do make an increase because we had already built some padding into the budget for something for them.
- Yes. Oh good. It was a lump sum in the other personal services line. And so now we're going to go and
- make those adjustments before the beginning of next year into each one of those salary lines and it
- won't change and then
- remove that total amount from each one of those other personal services lines and The total of those
- personal services lines won't change. It's just moving We'll just move it within the budget within category
- one. Yeah within category one within each fund within each department It's already set up in each department
- that has AFSCME employees So it's not at all like last year where we had six million dollars in the
- human resources fund and we had to or account we had to
- Move it to all the different funds. It's already in where it needs to be Okay, good. Thank you Councilmember
- Stossberg Since you mentioned the personal services line I This is like nitpicky and weird maybe and
- probably it has something to do with how the state wants you to report it but on those on that budget
- estimate the budget form one is
- The category is personal services, but all the personal services are spent on personnel. So why isn't
- it personnel? Why is it personal services? Let me get down there. I just find that nonsensical because
- those two words are so close to each other. It just feels like it's a language error, but it's so consistent
- that I don't think it possibly can be, but I just would like to know why.
- One thing I don't like is that it says personal services. I wish it said personnel services Well, right.
- That's what I mean. Like why doesn't that say personnel services? Is that just a state? Yeah, that's
- that all that that whole entire form is filled out by like a little like wizard That I entered those
- dollar amounts into like I have a trick there's a drop-down and I pick those and we pick those categories
- and and there's only personal like
- That's salaries and wages, personal services. I just pick those categories and then enter the amounts.
- So I don't have control over any of that. OK. So there's not a personnel category. Let's see. Yes. Right.
- There is not a category that says personnel. It should say personnel. I don't know why it says personal
- services. That's just not a thing. It's a really personal, honestly. It's very personal.
- Why are we getting so personal? Yeah Trust me. I spent a lot of time changing I can change the wording
- and we're in the column that says line item And I notice hopefully all of those say personnel services
- I believe so all the ones that I have looked at I that's me necessarily I don't have any control over
- that column that says personal services. Okay. Thank you Councilmember sorry
- First, this might be just a silly question, or maybe I'm uninformed. On form 4B at the end of it, the
- total is 163, 152, 557. Yes? 4B, 4B. At the end of the- Oh, up there. Let me get to the- Yeah, and then
- in the memo, the number is 162, 556, 352. And I wasn't listening carefully enough when you introduced
- the budget a second ago and gave the number in great eloquence.
- All right, let's see here. We're gonna go to, that's transit. Let me go past transit. And then 25, 11.
- So the form. Form four, I don't know if it's form B, I think it's just four. Form four. Yeah. So you
- have to take the total on the first page, which is not, this may not,
- Fingers crossed this adds up to the memo. The total on the first page is 110,184,108. And then you add
- that to 52,968,449. And that is, I just added it today, is 163,152,557. All right, and let's check the
- memo is on page 73.
- Boy total budget is 160 says 162 556 352 I think that is because the memo we we have the memo From with
- the total from New World and what we're advertising in the budget is slightly higher because the rate
- For the QM CAP development fund is advertised slightly higher and it's producing it is actually producing
- a higher budget than what we are approving than what we are going to use and that what we are going
- to get just for that one fund because it is a rate controlled fund. These are. Yeah. OK. OK. I apologize.
- These are very complicated things that it takes.
- I don't know. I don't Want to bore it like I don't want to go over it ad nauseam budget hearing it's
- gonna be okay I Hate that I have to tell you to trust me because I know you have to approve this and
- vote on this We I mean I trust you but in the public, you know, the public has and you have to report
- back to the public It will be right
- And I think maybe the motivation of asking the question to your point about the public, I mean, we,
- you know, the county last year made an accounting error that had a, right, so, you know, a million dollars,
- you know, maybe. So just double checking that. And then in the change, I mean, still pulling, and then I have
- I have this question and then if I have time, I'll ask one last question. But the pulling on this thread
- again of the changes, we have talked a lot during budget.
- budget proposal preparation, and then also in the budget hearings about the sort of circuit breaker.
- To be honest, don't totally understand it. But the impact on the circuit breaker with SEA 1 and all
- of that, did that go down or up between? Because I know that there were some changes in estimates and
- actuals sort of between first preparation of the proposal and now. Was there any change in that impact
- between now and what we're seeing today?
- There isn't any change. The amount of money that we're going to lose to circuit breakers is baked into
- the budget in this way that in our internal budget in New World, it's baked into the amount of money
- we're going to collect from property taxes. So if we're going to collect $27 million from property taxes,
- but we know we're going to get $1 million,
- Losses, we're only budgeting for 26 million in property taxes However when we advertise and approve
- the budget it's not baked in we're advertising and approving the full amount of property taxes we think
- we're gonna get and That's just the way the forms work and that's just the way approving the budget works so
- There's sort of like the budget we know that we're going to actually get and use is slightly different
- from the budget that we're advertising and approving because things like the property tax, the losses
- to the property tax credits aren't included in that full levy number. We're not going to get that full
- levy. Things like the rate being a little bit higher, and that affects the CUME CAP development fund
- and what we advertise for that.
- Truly wish that it was more transparent like from the state down in that respect Thank you other questions
- councilmember Piedmont Smith Yeah, I just like to get down to Well, no, actually I want to take a higher
- view 10,000 foot view so most of our budget
- How much of our budget is property taxes and how much is income taxes? Can you remind us? Okay I have
- property taxes up in front of me right now All right, I write this down 47 property taxes and this is
- general and the geo bonds parks and rec MVH and the cube cap development fund forty six million two
- hundred and sixteen thousand five forty two
- But what what percent of our budget is that was that maybe in your introduction is August don't know
- don't know the percent. I see it. It's thirty seven point four and it should be pretty close. Yeah.
- So I'm sorry I have it thirty seven point four percent and then local income tax is thirty three point
- one percent. So
- When we look at the well-being of Bloomington into the future since a majority comes from those two
- sources what should we be be focused on. I mean the way we get the the total assessed value of properties
- in our county. Right. And that's what the property tax rates that would deter ultimately determines
- the property tax rates. Is that right. Yeah. The total assessed value.
- the total assessed value determines that And really are how much we raise in taxes is kind of out of
- our control It raises by 4% every year. It's if like if you have 30 if you raise $38,000 this year,
- you can raise 39 30 $40,000 next year but the rate is the levy divided by the The assessed certified
- net assessed value
- Yeah, right So we need to make sure that we we have we keep growing that certified net assessed value,
- right? Yeah. Yeah This is a very Complex question. It's a very very good question. I think that There
- are a lot of voices in the room that have things to add to this conversation I am
- I think we have to think about growth, but you have to think about costs. I mean, I hear what Dave Raul
- was saying. You always have to think about cost associated growth. Growth can raise your assessed value.
- Growth can increase your income tax. The well-being of the citizens, what does that mean? Citizens want
- low taxes, and also citizens want good services. It's a very complicated balancing act, and I think all of us
- Do you want to speak? I really didn't want to get into that. I just wanted also for the public to understand,
- you know, where do our revenues come from? Oh, yes. How is that figured? And the income tax, it's only
- for people who live in the city limits, right? That's the only income tax we get as part of our government
- revenues. Is that right?
- As of right now we get income tax from the whole county but it will change to only people within in
- city limits in twenty twenty eight. Okay so currently we get a proportion proportion based on our population.
- So everybody in the county pays into and then pays into the
- Local income tax and that lump sum is is given to us by a percentage of our population But starting
- in 2028 only payers who actually live in the city will pay into the city local income tax Okay, so that
- does change the the dynamics of who the payers are If there are people who live in Martinsville and
- come down here to work their income taxes are going to Morgan County, right? Correct
- Correct and conversely if we have somebody who lives in Bloomington but works in Martinsville Their
- income taxes are coming to Monroe County, correct? Correct. Okay. Yes. I just want to you know kind
- of Help explain to people how how we get these revenues how it's calculated and yes, and I agree It's
- it's more complex than like we need to keep growing. Yeah Yeah, that's a whole nother conversation that
- is worthy Thank you Yes, thank you for asking
- Last question promise the so so just sort of wrapping up all my my questions and this evening is that
- if If if it's the case that we're fairly certain that will get more into deficit spending probably than
- we have in the past like we were
- probably going to spend a bit more than we have. And when we talked about it during budget season, the
- budget presentations, you all sighed a sigh of relief when we said, for example, that we didn't want
- as many studies or things like that. And you said, yeah, we're happy to cut those things. And then now
- we haven't actually cut those things. We found other places to cut.
- My question, and I get that this is somewhat open-ended, but why not be more aggressive with our cuts?
- If there's still some areas that, at some point, there was some relief to try to cut. Why are we not
- being super aggressive with cuts here? It's because cutting things is a domino effect.
- Cutting things like a study has a domino effect, and I will say that we were, it was very good for us
- to understand that there isn't a huge appetite for more studies, and we'll definitely take that into
- consideration in future budgets, but the time between the budget hearing and the budget adoption, we
- just didn't feel like was the right time to actually dig into those kinds of cuts, especially for planning
- studies. It just, like pulling the thread, sort of pull the string, it can sort of, it can really, would
- you like to add anything else?
- I think it's a great question and I think if we had more time between the budget hearings and making
- that discovery now we might have been able to have those discussions but for now we'd rather put it
- in the budget and then not spend it you know look sit down we have more time look at it and say okay
- what's the impact of if we cut this study
- That is tied to something else in the transportation plan and as a precursor to this other thing. What's
- the ripple effect of that? And and I think we all know this but just to say it out loud cutting the
- money from the study doesn't necessarily make there be enough money to
- by far to do more, which is one of the things I took away from your comments was less study, more building.
- But the building is way more expensive. And so cutting the studies won't make it possible to build more.
- Yeah. And I think that that's sort of, you know, this is both maybe, it's a pseudo question, you know,
- a comment on it. But that question of dependencies I get, right, that it's, you know, you pull this,
- and we haven't had the time to track what those dependencies are in short.
- But I think something that we should maybe you know consider some type of a doctrine for some of this
- a strategy for In the context of our you know, and then also thinking about future revenues and pressures
- that we're gonna face You know, I I think that we should
- perhaps be ourselves thinking about those dependencies and as they unfurl, saying actually, you know,
- we're not gonna touch some of the money that has been budgeted because of the fact that we realize that's
- not, you know, super essential right now, even though we have the authority to do it, just sort of thinking
- ahead of making sure that we both keeping the powder dry I get and also keeping our flexibility as much
- as possible to sort of difficult decisions that we're making ahead. You know, I think that the thing
- that I've said throughout these budget hearings is
- In the in the cases and and I'm very grateful And I think that we should continue to repeat what you've
- said very clearly here And I will continue to repeat this that the city is in a really good position
- Financially and even after approving a deficit budget even if we spent that deficit budget We're still
- in a good position financially. I think that's fantastic, but I do think that we need a strong Sort
- of theory of change of like when you spend deficit and what is deficit spending on?
- And I think to your point about dependency, I don't think we've really had the time to really formulate
- that. But I think moving forward, it's something that throughout this next year, as we're continuing
- to make further transitions in how we're budgeting, et cetera, it would be really good also to come
- up with some strong sense of what we're trying to do there.
- Yes. Yes. Thank you for. Yes. You echo our concerns. It's great to hear council members voicing you
- know you yourself and other council members voicing those kinds of concerns and thoughts. And as you
- all know the budget is a is a huge it this is a huge complex budget and we appreciate your interest
- and yeah your your thoughts and help on that throughout next year in the future. Thank you.
- Any other council member questions? Okay. In that case, we will move to the public comment section.
- Controller McClellan, thank you for your presentation. This section constitutes a public hearing held
- in accordance with Indiana Code Title 6, Article 1.1, Chapter 17, Section 3. If you are in chambers,
- please approach the podium, state your name for the record, and sign in on the sheet.
- Seeing none, if you are joining via Zoom, please raise your hand using the Reactions tab or send a message
- to the host. We do have an online commenter. I will unmute them. Great, thank you. And online commenter,
- please state your name, and you will have up to three minutes to give your comment. Thank you. Yes.
- Kevin Keough. And keep in mind, my intention is to add value and also the goal of transparency.
- The City of Bloomington's ACFR, the audit report is not for 12-31-24, has not been available for the
- council and for the public to look at. And I think it would be of great value when you're discussing
- the 2026 budget. Also, Isabel had a question that was answered in the budget book and it's on page
- 87 is page 12 of the answers, but it even talks about the audit and specifically my concern, especially
- after the discussion this evening, is about the completion. The 2023 was completed in the mid-July,
- July 17th, and that's a year and a half afterwards, and I noticed in the answer it talks about the audit
- is due September 30th, and you know,
- I've been an auditor over 40 years, and I've closed a lot of books and done audits. Usually you want
- those audits to be timely. And usually when I mean timely, you know, 90 days, 60 to 90 days after year
- in, you want them done. You want to close the books, get it behind you.
- And it seems the answer said something about a due date of September 30th, which has concerned me. And
- I tried to Google it and look it up. And I get conflicting information. And it talks about April 1st,
- that being the due date for the audit. So I'd like to see that clear. Plus, again, adding value. I would
- really emphasize how closing the books, getting the audit done within a timely period.
- And 90 days, I believe, is a timely period. It really helps you when you start preparing this year's
- budget and getting prepared for the discussions we're having tonight. And it just cleans things out.
- So I'm very concerned about that. And another reason as a member of the public why I'm concerned
- And these are actual numbers. My numbers, I know they're correct. My property taxes increased over 20%
- last year. It was 20.69%. The three years before that, it averaged over 10.5% each year. So my property,
- this is why it's so important and these discussions are so important. This is not sustainable.
- And, you know, it's a lifelong citizen of Bloomington. I know you talked about COLA, you know, cost
- of living has been four and a half, and this year may be under 3%. Look at these percentages, the property
- taxes have been increasing. I know my time's coming up. Thank you so much for this opportunity to present
- public comment. Thank you. Do we have any other takers on Zoom? Anyone in chambers?
- OK, thank you. That concludes our final public comment period. And now we'll go back to councilmembers
- for additional questions and comments. Councilmember Stosberg. I just have a closing comment, I suppose.
- Councilmember Saris' comment about studies reminded me of the answer. So in the packet, Councilmember
- Piedmont-Smith
- asked planning about those corridor studies. She kind of followed up on that. And part of the answer
- there made me feel a little bit better about it. Part of the answer was that the corridor studies maintain
- relevance for longer than engineering studies and differentiating between an engineering plan and a
- corridor study. And also that
- once you do the study, then you just have more information with which to budget with. And so in my mind,
- in terms of differentiating that and keeping those things in the budget, that answer gave me a lot of
- clarity. So I just want to point that out in case folks didn't see that. I also wanted to, I suppose,
- speak sadly
- Following up about the sanitation needs and it's never pleasant to think about Potential rate increases
- and I know we have this water rate increase electrical rates have increased Utilities are It feels like
- they're just increasing all over the place multiple times and it's it's really not great but we're also
- faced with the reality of an increased cost of doing business and then an expected future of decreased
- revenues and
- and having to tighten in different places. And so I just wanted to lift that up as something that I'm
- cognizant of and that it's really challenging to think about balancing all of those competing forces.
- And then the last thing that I wanted to, especially with regard to Mr. Keough's comment about taxes
- increasing, is differentiating the difference between our tax rate, which has not particularly increased,
- The assessed valuation of our properties and it's the assessed valuation of properties in Bloomington
- that has gone up a lot in the last I would say maybe even five years It has gone up a lot my property
- taxes the the bottom line number of how much I have to pay It is kind of astounding at how much I was
- paying say ten years ago versus how much I'm paying here now
- But I also want to point out that the actual tax rate, if you look at your tax bills, is quite low.
- And for a long time, our family also held property in Wayne County, Indiana, because that's where we
- moved from. And we could not sell our houses there very easily. So I was also paying property tax there.
- And my property tax rate for Wayne County, Indiana was twice that as it was here in Monroe County, twice.
- But the actual dollar amount I was paying was half.
- because the property values in Wayne County were so much lower, are so much lower than property values
- in Monroe County. So it is a double-edged sword when your home is worth a lot because then you're paying
- more in taxes. But that assessed value is something that we can't control. We can't control that.
- as as City Council as the city as Controller McClellan was saying, you know, we only have so much control
- over Property taxes and and the rate has stayed pretty stable over the last several years Right about
- two ish percent. I think in terms of what goes to city taxes. So Anyway, those are the things that I
- wanted to just speak to during this comment time. So thank you very much Thank You councilmember Stasberg
- Councilmember Rallo Yes, um, could could I follow up with a question? For controller McClellan Could
- could I ask Controller could I could I ask a quick question just as a follow-up because the ACFR that
- Mr. Keel referenced Could you could you explain the
- the lack of posting and when it will and and what do you have a comment about timeliness of of that
- for When we start this mayor thompson's administration in January of 24 the 2022 akfers what we refer
- to it had just been completed in december of 2023 And so we have spent the last year and a half catching
- up on akfers that haven't been completed timely um, so we
- caught up on 23. No, actually the 2021 had just been completed when we
- When mayor Thompson took office then last year we completed the 2022 we did the 2023 and we're working
- on the 2024 right now So we hope to have the 20 we will have the 2024 done by the end of the year And
- then next year we will be on a normal cycle of having those completed by September 30th of the year
- And then the April 1st deadline is for there's a there's a smaller financial report due to the state
- April 1st, it's called the annual financial report is the AFR. It's a much more smaller It's not as
- detailed as the AK for that's the April 1st report and those are have all been completed timely But
- I see that on the website Well, hopefully that satisfies mr. Keough. So thank you for that That that's
- very good. I just wanted to say Express my appreciation for the 0.7 percent increase in cola
- You know We fell behind in the early 20s When inflation was ramping up The administration at that time
- did not keep pace. It was a real worry for a lot of us I know that we had to play catch-up and I appreciate
- this administration's raising salaries as per the As per the salary study
- I appreciate that. We're keeping up with the CPI Also recognizing that you know, we live in a city that's
- 19% more expensive than most cities in Indiana and 4% More expensive than the national average. So if
- that continues pace then we're You know people are challenged in this community financially and we want
- to make sure that as a major employer and of course that the employees of the city are compensated so I
- Appreciate your your work on that. Thank you Any other comments or final questions In that case I will
- entertain a motion Councilmember Stasburg. Thank you I would like to move that the committee of the
- whole make a recommendation to the council for the adoption of appropriation ordinance 2025 11 Clerk
- Bolton, would you please call the roll?
- Yes Stasberg, yes Rosenberger. Yes Sorry, yes Rallo. Yes Piedmont Smith. Yes With the vote of six Oh
- that passes and we have come to the conclusion of all of our agenda items on our committee of the whole
- meeting so I will entertain a closing motion and
- to adjourn we second I turned