WEBVTT 00:00:00.866 --> 00:00:10.264 - that I'm gonna go ahead and call this deliberation session of the Bloomington-Cottman Council to order 00:00:10.264 --> 00:00:19.845 - here on December 10th at 631. Will the clerk please call the roll? Okay, I'm not doing this in the usual 00:00:19.845 --> 00:00:29.790 - order, so bear with me. Council Member Rosenberger. These are not working here. Fine. Hello, this one works. 00:00:30.626 --> 00:00:46.886 - Here Here here I got Here daily here Stossburg here Piedmont Smith here Rallo here Flirty here. Okay. 00:00:46.886 --> 00:00:48.958 - Thank you. I 00:00:49.314 --> 00:00:55.177 - Thank you so much. As I said tonight we are having a deliberation session. We're going to be discussing 00:00:55.177 --> 00:01:01.097 - outcome based budgeting and believe it or not twenty twenty seven priorities because municipal budgeting 00:01:01.097 --> 00:01:01.886 - starts early. 00:01:02.018 --> 00:01:08.480 - So I want to thank in advance councilmember Piedmont Smith who organized The discussion this evening. 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:14.942 - We will discuss outcome based budgeting and the progress so far Various outcomes that we already have 00:01:14.942 --> 00:01:21.277 - in city plans and really kind of the main goal I think tonight is to try to as a council prioritize 00:01:21.277 --> 00:01:27.613 - outcomes Which didn't really happen last year because you know, this this is a process We will have 00:01:27.613 --> 00:01:31.984 - public comment in there and then next steps and then we will adjourn 00:01:31.984 --> 00:01:40.799 - So I think at this point I'm turning over to councilmember Piedmont Smith Thank you so I do want to 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:49.703 - mention I'm chair of the Fiscal committee special committee of council and we did review this Agenda 00:01:49.703 --> 00:01:58.430 - or the general ideas that went into this agenda tonight, so it wasn't totally flying solo here and 00:01:58.722 --> 00:02:06.384 - So I just wanted to remind everybody about the context that both the mayor's administration and the 00:02:06.384 --> 00:02:14.199 - council agreed to move towards an outcome based budgeting process. The council passed a resolution in 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:22.014 - June of 2024 regarding this and of course during the budget process for the twenty twenty six budget. 00:02:22.114 --> 00:02:29.886 - the administration did move towards outcome-based budgeting, sort of an in-between step, which they 00:02:29.886 --> 00:02:37.890 - call priority-based budgeting. And really the big difference is that compared with how the city budget 00:02:37.890 --> 00:02:45.662 - was created previously, is that previously we would basically take the budget from the current year 00:02:45.762 --> 00:02:54.144 - and just tweak things. We need more for this. We need less for that. This costs more now. We need another 00:02:54.144 --> 00:03:02.051 - staff person, et cetera. With outcome-based budgeting, we look at what outcomes we want to achieve. 00:03:02.051 --> 00:03:10.433 - Then we back up and look at programs that will get us towards those outcomes. And then we back up further 00:03:10.433 --> 00:03:13.438 - and look at what those programs cost. 00:03:13.890 --> 00:03:23.724 - And I know that our Deputy Mayor Gretchen Knapp, who's here, and our Comptroller Jessica McClellan have 00:03:23.724 --> 00:03:33.463 - been working on evaluating all the programs and putting them in categories so that we can better track 00:03:33.463 --> 00:03:41.406 - what exactly they cost. But I think one of the big questions at this point is which 00:03:42.402 --> 00:03:49.714 - programs do we prioritize and to look at what we prioritize we really need to go back to look at the 00:03:49.714 --> 00:03:56.954 - outcomes that our city plans have said we are all working towards. And since we can't do everything 00:03:56.954 --> 00:04:04.629 - we also have need to prioritize those outcomes and kind of decide given our limited funding what outcomes 00:04:04.629 --> 00:04:12.158 - are most important for the community. So hopefully my colleagues all got a chance to take a look at the 00:04:12.482 --> 00:04:22.271 - packet that came with this for this meeting. Are there any questions before we kind of dive into the 00:04:22.271 --> 00:04:32.544 - outcomes? Yes. I really appreciate that we're doing this. I also had a lot of structural questions about, 00:04:32.544 --> 00:04:39.134 - I'll just surface a small one without getting into a lot of detail. 00:04:39.330 --> 00:04:45.016 - a lot of things that need to change to accomplish our outcomes are not in fact expenditures, they're 00:04:45.016 --> 00:04:50.984 - policy change, they're legislation and policy change. So that's just an example of a number of structural 00:04:50.984 --> 00:04:56.952 - issues that inform how we might engage in this exercise. And I'm just getting into the agenda and getting 00:04:56.952 --> 00:05:02.582 - it pulled up from my file, so apologies if there's like adequate space on the agenda for discussing 00:05:02.582 --> 00:05:04.158 - that, but I was curious for 00:05:05.186 --> 00:05:11.924 - the suitability of a topic like that at a session like this and just wanted to get your input as the 00:05:11.924 --> 00:05:18.595 - person running the meeting. I think that's a really good point. I think that we could probably talk 00:05:18.595 --> 00:05:25.266 - about that through the course of the meeting as we look at the outcomes that I've collated from our 00:05:25.266 --> 00:05:31.937 - city plans and we can say OK you know if a majority of council members say this outcome is the most 00:05:31.937 --> 00:05:35.006 - important. Well is that do we influence that. 00:05:35.682 --> 00:05:44.925 - just by budget or by policy as well. And kind of we can definitely should consider that once we prioritize 00:05:44.925 --> 00:05:53.564 - our outcomes. Does that make sense? It does. I worry that my structural questions are going to have 00:05:53.564 --> 00:06:03.326 - like an impact on the potential utility of the exercise. But I think let's proceed. I'm sorry. I'm always, yeah. 00:06:03.906 --> 00:06:10.982 - No, no, I think these are all good questions and I think the whole this whole movement towards outcome 00:06:10.982 --> 00:06:17.920 - based budgeting is necessarily going to be messy. So I think we just need to dig in. Exactly. And if 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:24.172 - council member Osari were here I would also ask him if he had anything to add since he was 00:06:24.172 --> 00:06:31.454 - kind of spearheading the move towards outcome based budgeting. But hopefully he will arrive shortly. Yes. 00:06:31.906 --> 00:06:38.082 - I'll also add to kind of address that question like to some degree I think like that kind of legislative 00:06:38.082 --> 00:06:44.081 - or process or policy changes falls under the umbrella of the effective governance. What's that bucket 00:06:44.081 --> 00:06:50.140 - called high performing government. And so that could be that kind of idea like if something might take 00:06:50.140 --> 00:06:56.139 - a lot of legislation and go well if that's like how much time is that going to take because time ends 00:06:56.139 --> 00:07:01.374 - up being say like staff hours and so like prioritizing that as part of staff hours under 00:07:01.794 --> 00:07:09.749 - high-performing government might be, depending on what it is, a pathway. I'm at a little bit of a loss 00:07:09.749 --> 00:07:17.935 - right now as chair of this meeting, whether or not Councilmember Piedmont-Smith should be chair or should 00:07:17.935 --> 00:07:25.658 - be kind of recognized as chair right now because she's organizing this discussion. So Councilmember 00:07:25.658 --> 00:07:30.910 - Piedmont-Smith, do you want to just keep on going? Not necessarily. 00:07:31.234 --> 00:07:40.289 - I mean, I think it's, I shared my game plan with you also. President Stossberg, if you want to go through 00:07:40.289 --> 00:07:48.918 - it, that would be perfectly fine with me. Okay, well, that was maybe the context, which is part A in 00:07:48.918 --> 00:07:56.350 - the game plan, which is page three of our packet tonight. Would you agree? Yes. Great. 00:07:57.154 --> 00:08:04.084 - Part B is outcomes and city plans. And so Council Member Piedmont-Smith made a list in the packet and 00:08:04.084 --> 00:08:10.878 - has two discussion questions here. Does everybody, is everybody interested in adding an environment 00:08:10.878 --> 00:08:18.283 - category or bucket? And then also, I'll give a little bit more context to this since I'm on fiscal committee 00:08:18.283 --> 00:08:24.126 - too, is should we be open to adding to the outcomes listed in these three city plans? 00:08:24.258 --> 00:08:31.074 - You know so how should we add outcomes basically like we kind of started with the plans because they 00:08:31.074 --> 00:08:38.091 - were established documents of the city. But are there other outcomes that we should consider. Are there 00:08:38.091 --> 00:08:45.042 - other plans or studies we should consider. How should we consider those things. Councilmember Piedmont 00:08:45.042 --> 00:08:51.925 - Smith what do you want to start with. Well I guess I would like to start with the summary of outcomes 00:08:51.925 --> 00:08:53.342 - that I've drawn from 00:08:53.538 --> 00:09:02.760 - The three plans listed, the Comprehensive Plan, the Climate Action Plan, and the Safe Streets for All 00:09:02.760 --> 00:09:11.801 - Action Plan. That last one basically just has one outcome to reduce deaths and serious accidents to 00:09:11.801 --> 00:09:20.842 - zero. So I guess I'd like to get some feedback whether looking at these, where I've categorized the 00:09:20.842 --> 00:09:23.102 - outcomes is appropriate. 00:09:28.322 --> 00:09:34.834 - And I did assume we would add environment. But if you feel like we should distribute the environment, 00:09:34.834 --> 00:09:41.219 - ones among the other existing six categories, you can speak up about that as well. And just want to 00:09:41.219 --> 00:09:47.795 - get feedback. I don't want to assume that I have done all of this accurately. I did my best. Yeah, why 00:09:47.795 --> 00:09:54.307 - don't we speak to the environment question first? Does that work for people? How do people feel about 00:09:54.307 --> 00:09:56.478 - adding environment as a category? 00:09:58.658 --> 00:10:07.374 - Council Member Daly? Yes. Anybody else? Council Member Zulek? I'm in favor of this as well, and I hear 00:10:07.374 --> 00:10:16.089 - from a lot of my younger residents and constituents that the environment is a very strong priority for 00:10:16.089 --> 00:10:24.721 - them. And so definitely on behalf of District 6, I vote yes. OK. Other comments about adding? Council 00:10:24.721 --> 00:10:28.190 - Member Aralo? Are my mics not always on? 00:10:28.386 --> 00:10:36.345 - Yes, to me, it's implicit in human flourishing to have attention to the environment. And it, of course, 00:10:36.345 --> 00:10:44.151 - appears it is explicit in our comprehensive plan, sustainability action plan, climate action plan. So 00:10:44.151 --> 00:10:52.263 - I think it should be included as its own topic. And I appreciate Council Member Piedmont-Smith describing 00:10:52.263 --> 00:10:56.702 - all of those categories within the proposed new category. 00:10:58.530 --> 00:11:05.577 - topics, I should say, or goals. Councilmember Flaherty? Yeah, so I'll try to bring in some more systems 00:11:05.577 --> 00:11:12.623 - questions where relevant. And I think here's one. Sure, we can have environment as a category, if we're 00:11:12.623 --> 00:11:19.602 - in categories. I must say, and I know I wasn't involved in the groundwork that did that this year, but 00:11:19.602 --> 00:11:26.581 - I didn't find much usefulness for the buckets of categorization in the priority-based budget framework 00:11:26.581 --> 00:11:27.326 - this year. 00:11:27.522 --> 00:11:33.687 - It felt like a pretty arbitrary exercise. And I actually felt like I had less transparency and visibility 00:11:33.687 --> 00:11:39.735 - into the budget than ever before. Because we used to use a process where at least departments set goals 00:11:39.735 --> 00:11:45.667 - for themselves and reported on those goals every year. There was actually a public dashboard with all 00:11:45.667 --> 00:11:51.598 - those goals. I think that wasn't always tied well enough to our city plans. And so I think there were 00:11:51.598 --> 00:11:55.902 - some shortcomings from an outcome-based framework with that old approach. 00:11:56.066 --> 00:12:02.515 - It's just an example. I found that more useful as a council member than simply saying the transportation 00:12:02.515 --> 00:12:08.719 - budget and this percentage of the public works budget and this whatever, you know, is transportation 00:12:08.719 --> 00:12:15.045 - category. Like I just didn't find much value and that's I guess I'm challenging the, or the assumption 00:12:15.045 --> 00:12:21.310 - that we want buckets of, you know, six or seven, eight broad categories of outcomes or goals. I guess 00:12:21.310 --> 00:12:25.118 - my question would be like to what end? Like is it serving us? 00:12:25.538 --> 00:12:32.444 - Not to like, sorry, I feel like I have a lot of cold water kind of suggestions tonight, but again, I 00:12:32.444 --> 00:12:39.350 - really do appreciate all the work that's gone into it and the work of the committee this year to try 00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:46.188 - something new and to, you know, to, yeah, grapple seriously with the question of what it would mean 00:12:46.188 --> 00:12:50.974 - to have an outcome-based budgeting system that we're all buttoned to. 00:12:51.202 --> 00:12:57.217 - I don't know. The fiscal committee has talked a little bit about that bucket thing and I don't know 00:12:57.217 --> 00:13:03.231 - at this point if Councilmember Piedmont-Smith or Rallo or I who are all on that committee or Deputy 00:13:03.231 --> 00:13:09.426 - Mayor Knapp or Comptroller McClellan might want to come to talk a little bit to that question that you 00:13:09.426 --> 00:13:15.441 - have because the short answer is it was kind of like step one and the usefulness might come more at 00:13:15.441 --> 00:13:19.230 - steps two or three and there wasn't time this year to do that. 00:13:19.490 --> 00:13:26.137 - Deputy Mayor is kind of creeping up to the table. So why don't you go ahead and talk about that a little 00:13:26.137 --> 00:13:32.593 - bit in terms of how you see the future of these buckets. And while you're doing it, my question about 00:13:32.593 --> 00:13:38.986 - the environmental, the environment bucket is do you think, and this might be Controller McClellan, I 00:13:38.986 --> 00:13:45.443 - kind of asked her this at fiscal committee, but maybe you guys have talked about it since, whether we 00:13:45.443 --> 00:13:48.798 - could easily put things into an environment category 00:13:48.962 --> 00:13:55.721 - because they're so directly related to that. So for the record, Deputy Mayor Gretchen Knapp, the way 00:13:55.721 --> 00:14:02.547 - the accounting software is set up, you do have to have a top-level category. So there is value within 00:14:02.547 --> 00:14:09.440 - the process that we have to follow as a whole to have those top-level categories. The data that we all 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:15.262 - really want to see and that we couldn't get to in time this year was the more detailed 00:14:15.362 --> 00:14:23.796 - numbers by program because and i've said it before but i'll just keep saying it because it's complicated 00:14:23.796 --> 00:14:31.988 - um when we go through this process in order to be able to say uh we've spent x dollars on um updating 00:14:31.988 --> 00:14:40.342 - um green energy stuff in the building for example for city hall we have to allocate every single dollar 00:14:40.342 --> 00:14:42.430 - that the city spends to a 00:14:42.946 --> 00:14:49.545 - into a category and so that's why we had all these annoying questions about how granular do you want 00:14:49.545 --> 00:14:56.144 - to be. So it's completely possible to add a category for climate and in fact because ESD has sort of 00:14:56.144 --> 00:15:02.678 - three different areas, the controller did already set up their budget this year with a new split so 00:15:02.678 --> 00:15:07.774 - that they could more easily track what they're spending in terms of the arts, 00:15:07.906 --> 00:15:13.410 - small business and long-term economic development and climate and transportation demand management. 00:15:13.410 --> 00:15:19.354 - So there's kind of a natural process for that has already started. But those big buckets are still valuable 00:15:19.354 --> 00:15:24.967 - because as we do go into the more granular work, there has to be within the program software a bigger 00:15:24.967 --> 00:15:30.581 - bucket. And so that's still helpful in terms of creating a dashboard from the data that we ultimately 00:15:30.581 --> 00:15:31.902 - get out of that system. 00:15:32.066 --> 00:15:38.571 - It doesn't mean that we can't have you know many finer points within that but we do need big buckets 00:15:38.571 --> 00:15:45.655 - to start so to kind of speak maybe if I'm paraphrasing councilmember Flaherty is like concern like systematic 00:15:45.655 --> 00:15:51.838 - concern like what what kind of because I would also agree like just having those big categories 00:15:52.002 --> 00:15:58.796 - Felt a little bit empty compared to say establish goals for departments, but what could we? expect to 00:15:58.796 --> 00:16:05.456 - see in the future in terms of those budget presentations and and meeting categories and potentially 00:16:05.456 --> 00:16:07.454 - other more granular goals and 00:16:07.586 --> 00:16:13.743 - I think it's a great question, and I think it in part depends on how granular you want to be. And my 00:16:13.743 --> 00:16:20.023 - observation is that each of us has issues that we want to be very granular about and other issues that 00:16:20.023 --> 00:16:26.180 - we're maybe not as interested in being granular about for whatever reason, more administrative areas 00:16:26.180 --> 00:16:32.520 - or things that just aren't passion projects. But the goal has always been to get to measurable outcomes 00:16:32.520 --> 00:16:35.934 - and goals. The problem is that the work it takes to put 00:16:36.290 --> 00:16:42.654 - to go through and say for every dollar that you're spending, exactly how are you categorizing that and 00:16:42.654 --> 00:16:48.833 - what is the program and if you're parks, you have, you know, your youth programs, is youth programs 00:16:48.833 --> 00:16:55.074 - one category or do you treat it more like CFRD, which thinks of things in terms of individual events 00:16:55.074 --> 00:17:01.438 - and themes that they work through. So the time that staff spend doing that is time that goes away from 00:17:02.402 --> 00:17:08.448 - writing extensive, you know, narratives about what they're doing, which is why we were so short on narrative 00:17:08.448 --> 00:17:14.107 - this year, is that we put so much time into trying to learn the software and get started with it. So, 00:17:14.107 --> 00:17:19.765 - you know, once we know what the program areas are that we want to track, then it's much easier to say 00:17:19.765 --> 00:17:25.367 - what is the goal for that. And of course, for most work that staff do, they already have goals. This 00:17:25.367 --> 00:17:27.198 - will just be a way of, you know, 00:17:27.490 --> 00:17:32.708 - capturing some of the things that we already do that may be invisible to all of us, and then making 00:17:32.708 --> 00:17:37.979 - sure that the things that matter most to us are definitely visible to all of us that we may not have 00:17:37.979 --> 00:17:43.354 - a name for right now. Council Member Flaherty, just that. Small clarifying question, which is, are the 00:17:43.354 --> 00:17:48.154 - tags mutually exclusive? You have to pick one and you can't have two applied to that thing? 00:17:48.154 --> 00:17:53.373 - The way I, and I've, it's been a minute since I looked at the software, but my memory is that there 00:17:53.373 --> 00:17:57.182 - was a top level and then a secondary level, so yeah, you would probably, 00:17:57.314 --> 00:18:04.817 - you know, in order to be able to say we're spending X on this area, it can only be assigned to one area 00:18:04.817 --> 00:18:12.032 - or another. Got it. Even though obviously there's lots of overlap. I could offer a brief reflection 00:18:12.032 --> 00:18:19.247 - on what I heard if you'd like, which is just I'm not certain that it would be useful for me to know 00:18:19.247 --> 00:18:26.462 - that we spend $473,000 on X, you know, activities at like a, you know, drilled down granular level. 00:18:27.170 --> 00:18:33.313 - in the context of outcome-based budgeting. I think I do care about the dollars and cents to a degree. 00:18:33.313 --> 00:18:39.335 - I more care about are we funding and doing the activities, the actions, and the outputs that we, to 00:18:39.335 --> 00:18:45.538 - the best of our good faith ability, believe are going to lead to the outcomes in sort of a logic model 00:18:45.538 --> 00:18:52.162 - framework. OK, here's the outcome we want. Here's a set of actions that we use staff expertise and consultant 00:18:52.162 --> 00:18:55.294 - expertise to develop to try to get to that outcome. 00:18:55.426 --> 00:19:01.454 - are we doing those things? And I think we're gonna talk about that a little bit more as we talk about 00:19:01.454 --> 00:19:07.363 - like adding outcomes and what it looks like. But I guess it seems relevant to this tagging question 00:19:07.363 --> 00:19:13.450 - because I very much don't want to have like make work for staff on tagging all the things. I'm curious 00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:19.478 - for other council members perspective around the utility of like an actual specific dollar figure for 00:19:19.478 --> 00:19:22.846 - X as opposed to or in contrast to just being able to say 00:19:23.554 --> 00:19:32.652 - these are the actions that we are taking that directly support X outcome. And they are funded, you know, 00:19:32.652 --> 00:19:41.577 - at staff time or whatever it is, like. Council Member Piedmont-Smith. Yeah, I think both are important 00:19:41.577 --> 00:19:50.761 - because, so the question, are we funding and taking the actions that we believe will lead to the outcomes 00:19:50.761 --> 00:19:53.534 - we want, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 00:19:55.234 --> 00:20:01.964 - The proof is then, OK, we have this program, which we think is going to lead to the outcomes we want. 00:20:01.964 --> 00:20:08.826 - But we need some measure of whether it really does. And we also need to know how much money we put into 00:20:08.826 --> 00:20:15.556 - that program, and then do a cost benefit analysis. It's like, OK, we're getting positive outcomes for 00:20:15.556 --> 00:20:22.286 - like 20 families, but we're putting in $100,000. So I think both what you just said is important, but 00:20:22.286 --> 00:20:23.870 - also understanding what 00:20:24.578 --> 00:20:33.229 - Inputs we give as far as time and money. Yeah, and time is money. I understood. I agree Actually for 00:20:33.229 --> 00:20:41.880 - those coming in there was another meeting so we've just gained another couple council members. We're 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:50.445 - kind of discussing our six buckets of outcomes the proposal of adding environments as a seventh and 00:20:50.445 --> 00:20:52.158 - also just generally 00:20:52.962 --> 00:21:01.560 - Kind of the general question of the usefulness of buckets and how detailed we want to be about it and 00:21:01.560 --> 00:21:09.990 - understand a little bit more about the the Accounting system and how that plays into it. So Council 00:21:09.990 --> 00:21:18.419 - member Olu Yeah, my question for the deputy mayor is It kind of broadly speaking the priority based 00:21:18.419 --> 00:21:22.718 - viewpoint versus the outcomes based which is we've 00:21:22.978 --> 00:21:30.946 - made explicit here in this document. The outcome-based is largely based upon guiding documents, which 00:21:30.946 --> 00:21:39.148 - I think are very important. They were community-derived, spent a lot of time and money developing these. 00:21:39.148 --> 00:21:47.272 - They were adopted by council, supported by the previous administration. Are these documents that you're 00:21:47.272 --> 00:21:51.646 - utilizing for, okay, I just wanted to get to that basic 00:21:51.970 --> 00:21:58.248 - Because, I mean, every, you know, you're a relatively new administration. You have your own priorities 00:21:58.248 --> 00:22:04.403 - too. But, you know. We're not in the business of reinventing the wheel in areas that we've hired and 00:22:04.403 --> 00:22:06.110 - appointed people, you know. 00:22:06.658 --> 00:22:12.824 - to bring their expertise to bear and they and their teams are continuing to use those documents as they 00:22:12.824 --> 00:22:18.812 - always have. I think we do have areas in the city where there are not guiding documents. ESD doesn't 00:22:18.812 --> 00:22:24.030 - have guiding documents per se. CFRD doesn't have guiding documents in the same way that 00:22:24.194 --> 00:22:29.745 - Transportation and some other areas have have documents. So there are gray areas in there, but no one 00:22:29.745 --> 00:22:35.405 - is ignoring any of those plans I've read them all yeah, and so I'm aware of them and you know, I wasn't 00:22:35.405 --> 00:22:41.119 - implying that no No, I I'm just saying there I want to reassure everyone that no one has abandoned those 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:46.724 - plans and if I can just say one more thing and then if you don't mind I'll take a seat unless you need 00:22:46.724 --> 00:22:47.486 - me again, but 00:22:47.586 --> 00:22:54.453 - to Council Member Flaherty's point. I think what you're wanting to see is how much are we spending on 00:22:54.453 --> 00:23:01.252 - something and is it really achieving that goal? Something to understand about our accounting program 00:23:01.252 --> 00:23:08.052 - the way it currently works without this overlay is that there's no way of tracking a program's or an 00:23:08.052 --> 00:23:15.390 - outcome's expenses except by a spreadsheet. All it tracks is general categories of spending like printing or 00:23:15.522 --> 00:23:23.905 - personnel or whatever so if we want to in any variation be able to say What are we spending on XYZ outcome? 00:23:23.905 --> 00:23:31.899 - Output you know anything we do have to add a layer and spend the time to put that money in and whether 00:23:31.899 --> 00:23:33.374 - we can get in this 00:23:33.794 --> 00:23:39.422 - new cycle to getting all of those numbers in I imagine that we will all have a learning curve once we 00:23:39.422 --> 00:23:45.105 - see the detail of like oh we're spending that much on fill in the blank or you know wait we only spend 00:23:45.105 --> 00:23:50.843 - we don't spend anything on this other thing whatever that might be. So I don't imagine that we're going 00:23:50.843 --> 00:23:56.361 - to all be 100 percent satisfied with the budget this time but we should make a lot more progress in 00:23:56.361 --> 00:24:00.830 - terms of being able to see real numbers and have a more meaningful conversation. 00:24:03.266 --> 00:24:12.079 - At least for now, I mean, I don't know how much you might end up having to walk back and forth this 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:21.244 - evening, but you'll get your steps in Are there other comments from anybody about the utility of adding 00:24:21.244 --> 00:24:28.382 - a bucket for environment or How we're using those categories Councilmember sorry 00:24:29.026 --> 00:24:35.593 - We should. It helps to track things. It helps because these conversations, as we're realizing, you sort 00:24:35.593 --> 00:24:42.159 - of set them. They seed future conversations. And so it is an area that certainly all of us individually 00:24:42.159 --> 00:24:48.537 - care about a lot. It's something that all of our constituents care about an awful lot. It'll help us 00:24:48.537 --> 00:24:54.914 - to be very clear about how we're operationalizing plans that exist that are relevant to environment. 00:24:54.914 --> 00:24:57.566 - So I would be a very strong yes for that. 00:25:00.130 --> 00:25:07.555 - Thank you. And thank you to Deputy Mayor Knapp for coming up and working some things out with us. I 00:25:07.555 --> 00:25:15.055 - think there are multiple ways to do it, and I think that whatever way we choose is fine, but when we 00:25:15.055 --> 00:25:22.554 - think about input versus output, I do think that, especially as we are in this multiple-year process 00:25:22.554 --> 00:25:29.534 - of getting to the outcomes-based budgeting, that understanding our capability for input would 00:25:29.794 --> 00:25:39.142 - will be able to help us more easily identify what we're capable of in terms of providing outputs and 00:25:39.142 --> 00:25:48.582 - so what those goals are and the specific numbers because we can't, I don't think we can make a proper 00:25:48.582 --> 00:25:57.374 - goal setting chart until we fully understand what our inputs are. Can I ask for clarification? 00:25:57.858 --> 00:26:06.552 - Yes like so so specifically like inputs being like our revenues and our priorities being like like actually 00:26:06.552 --> 00:26:14.683 - prioritizing our buckets. I'm referring to the the recent budgets that we've had and how the numbers 00:26:14.683 --> 00:26:22.974 - were sorted out. I think that it will be helpful moving forward to understand how that was decided for 00:26:22.974 --> 00:26:25.470 - next year if that makes sense. 00:26:35.010 --> 00:26:44.359 - Any other thoughts on this question. Yeah. I was getting at I'm sorry. I don't know. Like do you mean 00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:53.617 - how the initial budgets from this year like however much was in the different departments. Yeah I do 00:26:53.617 --> 00:27:04.158 - think I do think it was helpful just moving forward. So now that we have a baseline we can kind of figure out what 00:27:04.322 --> 00:27:17.884 - What we're going to do next year now Like in terms of what buckets we might want to switch to get closer 00:27:17.884 --> 00:27:28.734 - to those outcomes Councilmember Flaherty, thanks that was helpful input input About 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:35.330 - where we're trying to get and how that might serve us. I agree there will be surprising outcomes and 00:27:35.330 --> 00:27:41.652 - I think it will have some utility. I think what I'm grappling with is to make sure it's a juice is worth 00:27:41.652 --> 00:27:47.732 - the squeeze on the thing. And yes, metrics and quantitative data are helpful to the extent that they 00:27:47.732 --> 00:27:53.813 - are telling you the thing you want to know. And I worry a little bit, there's a lot of actions that, 00:27:53.813 --> 00:27:57.726 - let's just talk about a multi-use path on a high crash corridor. 00:27:58.082 --> 00:28:04.201 - That is mitigating emissions, because it is helping support mode shift through infrastructure investments. 00:28:04.201 --> 00:28:10.034 - It's increasing safety, trying to reduce deaths on our streets and serious injuries. It might involve 00:28:10.034 --> 00:28:15.981 - narrowing a street, which allows for more tree canopy. There are other, it might increase the viability 00:28:15.981 --> 00:28:21.814 - of a business there. There's economic development components. Just knowing enough about our plans and 00:28:21.814 --> 00:28:26.846 - the types of things we do. And you could say there's a main thing, or you can pick one. 00:28:27.266 --> 00:28:34.654 - I worry about us reading too much into, we're spending X here and only Y here when you've got that type 00:28:34.654 --> 00:28:41.901 - of dynamic, cross-cutting almost anything we could do. So that's it. Councilmember Asari. And I think 00:28:41.901 --> 00:28:49.147 - to that point as well, to the point that both of you are making, it is, and I think we've raised this 00:28:49.147 --> 00:28:56.251 - in multiple other instances, is that thinking that way is a challenge as well, because not all that 00:28:56.251 --> 00:28:57.246 - we might have 00:28:57.506 --> 00:29:04.135 - goals that are of equal priority to us, but they're not all gonna cost the same, and so it also sort 00:29:04.135 --> 00:29:10.829 - of changes. We might be doing a lot of things under a particular bucket, but it's because they're all 00:29:10.829 --> 00:29:17.983 - cheap things. And then just as a follow-up to that, I think one of the reasons, though, why I'm particularly 00:29:17.983 --> 00:29:24.611 - interested in having sort of a robust set of buckets, and particularly around something that we sort 00:29:24.611 --> 00:29:26.974 - of in a narrative fashion agree on, 00:29:27.682 --> 00:29:34.982 - is because I think, and I'll just say it and please disagree with me if I'm totally wrong or off base 00:29:34.982 --> 00:29:42.281 - or if you guys don't feel this way, but my feeling is that we have a lot of plans. Some of, you know, 00:29:42.281 --> 00:29:49.796 - it's kind of a contested question, because some of them are like real plans, some of them are unofficial 00:29:49.796 --> 00:29:57.310 - plans, et cetera. I think that was sort of the tail end of what Deputy Mayor was saying. But my feeling, 00:29:58.402 --> 00:30:05.411 - sitting there often is that we kind of, not we, but generally when people are presenting to us, they 00:30:05.411 --> 00:30:12.697 - kind of pick things, sort of do this like, oh yeah, that's in the whatever plan, and they sort of attach 00:30:12.697 --> 00:30:18.942 - it to something they wanted to do anyways. And I'd like to think about one of my personal 00:30:19.042 --> 00:30:24.170 - goals for advocating so much for outcome-based thinking, even just, is to get us thinking the other 00:30:24.170 --> 00:30:29.349 - way around, that it's not like, oh, I want to do this thing, and then you go, well, where can I find 00:30:29.349 --> 00:30:34.477 - a plan that supports it, but that we say, well, we went through this long process of coming up with 00:30:34.477 --> 00:30:39.606 - these plans that have this clear set of goals and activities and outcomes, and that we follow them, 00:30:39.606 --> 00:30:44.990 - and that we can show, and maybe some of them, we can have the clear conversations, like, yeah, you know, 00:30:45.250 --> 00:30:51.712 - we don't think we need to do that, or we can think of better ideas now, great, fine. But I think that 00:30:51.712 --> 00:30:58.175 - there needs to be that clear set of thinking, not just appending nice words from plans onto ideas and 00:30:58.175 --> 00:31:04.637 - programs that we're already pursuing. And to wrap that up, I think that by having a category, I think 00:31:04.637 --> 00:31:11.036 - that's the value of these categories, is it does sort of give us a focal point for that conversation 00:31:11.036 --> 00:31:13.950 - so that we keep having it and keep having it. 00:31:16.130 --> 00:31:22.675 - Yeah, thank you. I want to second both of those concepts, that idea of starting with the outcome and 00:31:22.675 --> 00:31:29.349 - then doing something that supports the outcome instead of doing something that you want to do and then 00:31:29.349 --> 00:31:36.283 - figuring out what it supports and then also being really, I don't know, deliberate, careful, conscientious 00:31:36.283 --> 00:31:43.022 - about how we categorize things, understanding that things fall into so many categories at the same time 00:31:43.022 --> 00:31:44.318 - as I think based on 00:31:44.450 --> 00:31:53.089 - At the time that council member Piedmont Smith allocated, she put about 20 minutes into talking about 00:31:53.089 --> 00:32:01.897 - these outcomes. I think nobody said that environment should not be added. So environment is the seventh 00:32:01.897 --> 00:32:10.366 - bucket, sounds good over here. And then perhaps we need to shift into part C, which is an activity. 00:32:11.234 --> 00:32:19.156 - that might help further our conversations about prioritizing. Does that work for folks. Councilmember 00:32:19.156 --> 00:32:26.923 - Piedmont Smith do you want to talk about what it is that we're supposed to do. OK. So I didn't have 00:32:26.923 --> 00:32:34.922 - time to write the categories on these posted sheets but I will do that real quick. And the idea is for 00:32:34.922 --> 00:32:40.126 - each council member to grab a post it note and a pen or some more. 00:32:40.290 --> 00:32:49.490 - Sharpie and write down for each category What your top three? What you think are the top three most 00:32:49.490 --> 00:32:58.874 - important outcomes And if you could only think of one or two that's fine, but right, you know one two 00:32:58.874 --> 00:33:07.614 - and three if you do multiple for each category and your initials so that we know who it is and 00:33:07.906 --> 00:33:14.884 - Stick them in the categories on those sheets and then after we've had some time to do that The plan 00:33:14.884 --> 00:33:22.002 - is to come back and look at the sheets one by one and see where we might coalesce around prioritizing 00:33:22.002 --> 00:33:28.981 - certain outcomes in each category and I would like to go on the record here and say that I prepared 00:33:28.981 --> 00:33:33.726 - for an activity that was different and I clearly did not understand 00:33:36.482 --> 00:33:42.301 - Yeah, I think I did the homework wrong too. Are we allowed to work together if we need to? Sure. OK, 00:33:42.301 --> 00:33:48.121 - great. Councilmember Flaherty? Are the things we are writing down supposed to be verbatim what is in 00:33:48.121 --> 00:33:54.286 - pages seven through nine of the last four pages of the packet? Here's an example. The quantity and quality 00:33:54.286 --> 00:34:00.105 - of green space within the community has increased. If that's one of my top three priorities, I would 00:34:00.105 --> 00:34:06.270 - write that sentence down and put it up there. Well, I think you could shorten it and just say green space. 00:34:06.562 --> 00:34:14.350 - OK. OK. But what if there's multiple things that speak to green space? So if we're trying to say, this 00:34:14.350 --> 00:34:22.213 - is a set of outcomes that are in our packet, and those are the set of outcomes that we're choosing from 00:34:22.213 --> 00:34:30.228 - for this exercise? Yes. OK. But what if we have other outcomes? In the previous part of tonight's agenda, 00:34:30.228 --> 00:34:34.462 - we were supposed to talk about, and we don't, you know, 00:34:34.850 --> 00:34:40.737 - We can we can go back and do this too. We're supposed to talk about are there things that are not on 00:34:40.737 --> 00:34:46.565 - this list that should be included and then on what basis should they be included. So they're not in 00:34:46.565 --> 00:34:52.685 - the comprehensive plan of the climate action plan. Yeah. So where did you get this and should we include 00:34:52.685 --> 00:34:58.747 - it. Now we could certainly do that later and redo this exercise or redo some version of this if we want 00:34:58.747 --> 00:35:03.934 - to just move ahead. But yeah I don't think we have to be limited to these in general but 00:35:04.034 --> 00:35:11.984 - For this exercise, I wanted us to have some agreement that it's not just an outcome that we're taking 00:35:11.984 --> 00:35:19.857 - from the sky and writing down. It's something that's in our plans. OK, so understanding that, I will 00:35:19.857 --> 00:35:27.729 - once again say I definitely did my homework wrong. Do we want to go back to the prior section B, and 00:35:27.729 --> 00:35:32.094 - are there particular outcomes that anybody wants to add 00:35:33.954 --> 00:35:39.727 - the list that councilmember Piedmont Smith started for us Councilmember Flaherty, what do you want to 00:35:39.727 --> 00:35:45.613 - add it? Where do you want to put it? So I'm not gonna answer that directly. It's my answer like I think 00:35:45.613 --> 00:35:51.330 - it's already been brought up at least by the mayor and we're sorry that We hit there's an unevenness 00:35:51.330 --> 00:35:57.046 - to where we have formal city plans Which I would characterize as plans that went through a community 00:35:57.046 --> 00:36:02.876 - process driven by administration and had formal adoption or approval of some count by the City Council 00:36:02.876 --> 00:36:03.838 - that's occupying 00:36:04.386 --> 00:36:10.002 - a portion of the pie, you know? And in the other areas, we don't have that. And it's something I raised 00:36:10.002 --> 00:36:15.671 - in last year's budgeting sessions when the administration was coming forward with priority action plans. 00:36:15.671 --> 00:36:21.071 - And I asked repeatedly, how's the council going to be involved? Are these going to be approved? The 00:36:21.071 --> 00:36:26.470 - answers were not really a no. And those are mayoral priorities. And that's fine. The mayor can have 00:36:26.470 --> 00:36:31.006 - priorities. I think we run into limits about being able to use those priorities for 00:36:31.138 --> 00:36:36.219 - this purpose because they're not in fact, they haven't gone through the process of what the COMP plan 00:36:36.219 --> 00:36:41.250 - did or what the climate action plan or the transportation plan has. So I think if we want to do this 00:36:41.250 --> 00:36:46.330 - holistically, like it's, I mean we can do the exercise that's prescribed for us tonight, I just think 00:36:46.330 --> 00:36:51.361 - we need to recognize its limits. And if we want to approach outcome-based budgeting holistically, we 00:36:51.361 --> 00:36:56.392 - need to have both a confronting of the fact that there's whole areas of city government for which we 00:36:56.392 --> 00:36:56.990 - don't have, 00:36:57.090 --> 00:37:02.739 - Formal city plans and maybe develop them and then second which is that these plans that we have even 00:37:02.739 --> 00:37:08.723 - Warrant all designed using the same framework Which I think is reflected in the fact that the safe streets 00:37:08.723 --> 00:37:14.428 - for all action plan has one outcome and that the transportation plan has none I wouldn't characterize 00:37:14.428 --> 00:37:20.133 - either of those plans that way at all. Actually, I would say that Implementing a shared street design 00:37:20.133 --> 00:37:25.502 - on Kirkwood is it is you know an outcome or if you want to go farther downstream from that that 00:37:25.698 --> 00:37:32.516 - a vibrant, like maybe it wasn't stated in the right language, that a vibrant downtown connector between 00:37:32.516 --> 00:37:39.401 - Sample Gates and the square in a pedestrian street plaza enhances economic vitality, safety, blah, blah, 00:37:39.401 --> 00:37:46.088 - blah. So none of these plans were designed necessarily with outcome-based budgeting in mind, nor were 00:37:46.088 --> 00:37:53.234 - they designed to interlock consistently with one another. And so that's the other major structural challenge 00:37:53.234 --> 00:37:55.070 - to using the existing plans 00:37:55.618 --> 00:38:08.496 - verbatim to Do like-for-like analysis of priority outcomes? Okay, that's myself box I Mean I think we 00:38:08.496 --> 00:38:21.247 - can We can go one of several directions here we could just use the The outcomes that I've summarized 00:38:21.247 --> 00:38:23.646 - in the packet as a 00:38:25.282 --> 00:38:34.136 - a guideline and come up with separate outcomes that we can defend through various ways, if asked, and 00:38:34.136 --> 00:38:43.250 - carry on with the exercise. Or we can take a step back, not to the exercise, do it another time perhaps, 00:38:43.250 --> 00:38:52.017 - and talk about areas where we don't have plans. I mean, clearly public safety, there's no plan. So I 00:38:52.017 --> 00:38:53.406 - wrote down some 00:38:54.466 --> 00:39:02.755 - I would want to see but you know, it's it's nothing that we've all agreed upon so Either way, I don't 00:39:02.755 --> 00:39:11.043 - know what the will of the majority is You said that we when you were listening it said to qs speaking 00:39:11.043 --> 00:39:19.576 - to your microphone Sorry that you when you said that we can defend Does that have a light? It's on yeah, 00:39:19.576 --> 00:39:23.070 - it's on we can hear you that we can defend 00:39:24.354 --> 00:39:31.037 - You know our outcome priority some you were you were referring to the ones that have plans that we can 00:39:31.037 --> 00:39:37.201 - point to that were community developed based by Well since we don't have a plan for everything 00:39:37.201 --> 00:39:43.689 - as councilmember Flaherty said We might consider just adding outcomes but we don't want to just add 00:39:43.689 --> 00:39:47.582 - them willy-nilly, you know, you want we want to say well, I 00:39:47.970 --> 00:39:54.533 - my constituents really care about this, and I've heard this, or the community survey has indicated this, 00:39:54.533 --> 00:40:00.972 - and therefore I'm putting this in. You know, not just, well, I really like goats, and so I'm gonna put 00:40:00.972 --> 00:40:07.410 - that in. Yeah, I just wanted clarification on what you meant by defense or defend. Yeah, I didn't mean 00:40:07.410 --> 00:40:13.661 - like put up your dukes. Like we had an ideological bent towards something that's not what you meant 00:40:13.661 --> 00:40:16.286 - by defend. You don't have to defend your, 00:40:16.834 --> 00:40:25.045 - Your priority that way if it's if you just acknowledge that it's a personal priority as opposed to something 00:40:25.045 --> 00:40:32.578 - that's laid out in a community-driven Generated plan I get I guess so. Okay, I mean Right, I mean I 00:40:32.578 --> 00:40:39.358 - think that there can be space for personal priorities, but if we're gonna count them as I 00:40:40.418 --> 00:40:46.446 - kind of an outcome that we as the council agree on, I think then you have to basically like defend or 00:40:46.446 --> 00:40:52.414 - convince us all that it's like, that it deserves to be on the list. I think that we have two options 00:40:52.414 --> 00:40:58.442 - right now on how to proceed. One is to proceed with council member Piedmont-Smith's activity with the 00:40:58.442 --> 00:41:04.411 - list that has been provided with us. And then maybe the second option is to go through these buckets 00:41:04.411 --> 00:41:06.302 - one at a time and add outcomes. 00:41:07.042 --> 00:41:14.568 - In that defense kind of you know, like where are we getting the outcome? What are people prepared for 00:41:14.568 --> 00:41:21.946 - and interested to do right now? Councilmember sorry Why don't you do the second why don't we do the 00:41:21.946 --> 00:41:29.471 - second thing first and then time permitting do the first thing? All right, great Let's do housing and 00:41:29.471 --> 00:41:36.702 - homelessness first. I feel like we need to have somebody help take notes so that then if we add a 00:41:38.178 --> 00:41:46.656 - outcomes Yeah, yeah, we can go ahead and and Make a make a sheet. Well, let's just have one sheet for 00:41:46.656 --> 00:41:55.134 - each for each bucket. So let's start with housing and homelessness It's just housing and homelessness 00:41:55.134 --> 00:42:01.534 - Because affordable housing would be would be a piece of housing overall so I 00:42:01.826 --> 00:42:08.624 - Underneath this category, we have A, B, and C, so we can start our list up there on the board with D, 00:42:08.624 --> 00:42:15.356 - and then maybe our packet, our packet can get amended later on to include all these. So we have, for 00:42:15.356 --> 00:42:22.021 - the public at home who might not be looking at the packet, increase the range of affordable housing 00:42:22.021 --> 00:42:29.086 - options that are universally designed and environmentally sustainable from, I think that's the comp plan. 00:42:29.218 --> 00:42:34.968 - Be improved access of neighborhood housing to community amenities employment and essential services 00:42:34.968 --> 00:42:40.776 - and then see increased diversity within neighborhoods and all of those look to be in chapter five of 00:42:40.776 --> 00:42:46.756 - the comp plan council members who look what would you like to add to that well Sorry, I have a question 00:42:46.756 --> 00:42:52.679 - first and then potentially in question when we say in see increased diversity within neighborhoods Are 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:58.142 - we talking about people or are we talking about housing stock? Does anybody have the comp plan 00:42:59.618 --> 00:43:10.526 - Okay, that would be helpful to clarify Okay, um, how about Who wants to look that up? I I'll look that 00:43:10.526 --> 00:43:20.798 - up real quick. Okay, well we continue on As long as as long as C is discussing housing stock and 00:43:21.794 --> 00:43:31.423 - I don't have anything to add Councilmember sorry, I would add something along the lines of increasing 00:43:31.423 --> 00:43:41.051 - the How long how quickly people can get permits Making it no I made that sound like I want to make it 00:43:41.051 --> 00:43:50.302 - take longer the other way around making making building things here faster or something like that 00:43:51.426 --> 00:44:02.027 - easier. Increasing the ease of permitting or something. Is that an outcome? I mean, I would think that 00:44:02.027 --> 00:44:12.319 - the outcome. We can do semantics later. But I don't know. I guess that's a good important question. 00:44:12.319 --> 00:44:20.862 - Do we want to spend a lot of time right now talking? Because I agree that it's not 00:44:21.122 --> 00:44:28.363 - eloquent way of saying it I think that there's it needs to be measurable needs to be like a lot of things 00:44:28.363 --> 00:44:35.262 - that we need to Go through but I'm just saying generally speaking. That's the area in which I'd like 00:44:35.262 --> 00:44:42.435 - to see some change Sure, but if we want to have the conversation about like how would you exactly phrase 00:44:42.435 --> 00:44:48.446 - it we should have I guess I feel like the point of that is to get more houses built and 00:44:48.962 --> 00:44:56.868 - and so the outcome is to get more houses built and a way to get that housing. Reduce time to build or 00:44:56.868 --> 00:45:04.774 - approval is an outcome. Yeah, I'm particularly interested in the time to approval. Can we reduce time 00:45:04.774 --> 00:45:13.223 - to approval then up there instead of permitting time? Potentially the outcome could be that local developers 00:45:13.223 --> 00:45:16.478 - are able to feasibly make the investment. 00:45:16.802 --> 00:45:29.033 - future properties we hear We hear all the times that local developers can't make that investment because 00:45:29.033 --> 00:45:39.866 - of the time that it takes to just be approved for the permitting process Okay, what what was 00:45:39.866 --> 00:45:43.710 - that councilmember Rosenberger I 00:45:47.810 --> 00:45:57.610 - Added conditional use is one of the reasons that time and money is added to press It causes delay Okay 00:45:57.610 --> 00:46:07.315 - councilmember Rallo I think that that topic deserves a debate because I'm I'm not I'm not in favor of 00:46:07.315 --> 00:46:16.734 - just expediting development and with the idea that the outcome is going to be a community good and 00:46:17.378 --> 00:46:27.137 - I think that there are ways to achieve that. For instance, the South Bend model of having a pallet of 00:46:27.137 --> 00:46:36.991 - housing types and saying, you know, if you choose one of these, we can expedite it. But I'm very weary 00:46:36.991 --> 00:46:46.750 - of seeing buildings go up that are frankly unesthetic and shoddily designed. And I loathe the idea of 00:46:47.554 --> 00:46:56.033 - Reproducing that just under the banner of this is going to yield housing for people cheaper housing 00:46:56.033 --> 00:47:04.596 - Not sure that's going to occur but anyway, so it deserves a deeper discussion Councilmember Piedmont 00:47:04.596 --> 00:47:11.294 - Smith, do you have an answer to council members who looks original question? I 00:47:11.650 --> 00:47:18.560 - Yes. So the outcome increased diversity within neighborhoods is both about types of housing and people 00:47:18.560 --> 00:47:25.268 - because it has indicators such as neighborhood diversity index to view changes in racial and ethnic 00:47:25.268 --> 00:47:32.044 - diversity in neighborhoods over time. It also has ratio of ownership to rental units by neighborhood 00:47:32.044 --> 00:47:36.606 - and other things. So and then I also had something I wanted to add. 00:47:38.274 --> 00:47:46.763 - Okay, should we keep going on the the question the doctor that Councilmember Rallo brought up? About 00:47:46.763 --> 00:47:56.009 - maybe phrasing of I feel like it's phrasing of the outcome versus the way to get to the outcome Councilmember 00:47:56.009 --> 00:48:04.414 - sorry, I would just say that I think I think that that's that's a I agree with the with the concern 00:48:04.514 --> 00:48:11.248 - And to me it's a question of two different, there's two different toolkits question. We can address 00:48:11.248 --> 00:48:18.521 - that issue separate from the budget. But if the, I think to me the test here is if the planning department, 00:48:18.521 --> 00:48:25.322 - if the mayor's office came and said hey, we'd like to invest in another position in planning so that 00:48:25.322 --> 00:48:32.123 - we can speed up the times that we can get approvals of things that are already in the UDO, like that 00:48:32.123 --> 00:48:34.480 - may be something we would support. 00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:41.701 - If they said, hey, we're going to invest in more technology so that we can raise how quickly we're able 00:48:41.701 --> 00:48:48.921 - to approve things that are already approved within the UDO, that might be something we support. So it's 00:48:48.921 --> 00:48:56.281 - a slightly different question. I think it's a valid concern. It's one that I share. I'm really interested 00:48:56.281 --> 00:49:03.223 - in exploring. But I think that it's a separate question than the budgetary priority of, can we make 00:49:03.223 --> 00:49:04.126 - it easier to 00:49:04.226 --> 00:49:11.617 - Do things that we want to see done in the city? Does that address comes over Rollo your concern in terms 00:49:11.617 --> 00:49:18.867 - of That is of as an outcome, even if it's not perfectly framed right now. Yeah, that helps Okay, comes 00:49:18.867 --> 00:49:25.906 - my repeat month Smith. You said that you had something that you wanted to add as well And then I'll 00:49:25.906 --> 00:49:33.438 - go over to councilmember Rosemarger. I Wanted to add make homelessness brief rare and non repeating That's 00:49:33.794 --> 00:49:45.813 - from directly from the heading home plan. Does anybody want to challenge or ask Councilmember Piedmont-Smith 00:49:45.813 --> 00:49:56.839 - to defend her added outcome? I think I have a similar reflection to what was just being discussed a 00:49:56.839 --> 00:50:02.462 - little bit, and I sort of piped in from over here. 00:50:03.426 --> 00:50:10.065 - Activities and outputs and indicators that might be like leading measures of achieving something later 00:50:10.065 --> 00:50:16.574 - There are also outcomes that we might frame as near-term medium-term long-term outcomes sometimes in 00:50:16.574 --> 00:50:23.277 - logic models You see the long-term outcomes framed as impact. I think what councilmember Piedmont Smith 00:50:23.277 --> 00:50:30.238 - just stated is probably in that like Impact category zero deaths on our street by 2039 might be another and 00:50:31.746 --> 00:50:38.037 - Well, I agree that those are great visioning impacts. I think we're going to have to deal with that 00:50:38.037 --> 00:50:44.391 - maybe isn't the most useful in the end for all the things. I don't know. I mean, it is useful. It is 00:50:44.391 --> 00:50:50.745 - useful as the set of priorities. Maybe impact type big outcomes are long range outcomes are the best 00:50:50.745 --> 00:50:57.035 - thing to have an overarching vision. But I guess I feel like there's often a disconnect between the 00:50:57.035 --> 00:51:01.502 - thing we say we're trying to achieve and then our ability to implement 00:51:02.402 --> 00:51:08.424 - the actions and achieve the near-term milestones and outcomes, potentially, like reduced permitting 00:51:08.424 --> 00:51:14.686 - time, right? That's a shorter-term outcome, more discreet, and often we struggle to draw the connection 00:51:14.686 --> 00:51:20.888 - and then actually do the short-term things, and when we're talking about annual budgeting cycles, yes, 00:51:20.888 --> 00:51:25.886 - the grand vision's still important, we need to understand it, but we're gonna need 00:51:26.338 --> 00:51:31.791 - So that's not like a, you know, vote against what it is. Well, just have very much support. I'm just, 00:51:31.791 --> 00:51:37.136 - again, kind of reflecting on like from a systems perspective, like what is it that we actually need 00:51:37.136 --> 00:51:42.749 - to be able to like operationalize this? Yeah. Okay. Can I maybe bring something in from fiscal committee 00:51:42.749 --> 00:51:47.774 - that I feel like what, especially Councilmember Flaherty, what you just said and that idea of 00:51:47.874 --> 00:51:53.034 - outcomes that are long range or short range. I mean, I feel like this is like layers of an onion or 00:51:53.034 --> 00:51:58.401 - like a thought tree or something where it's like we could put lots of things underneath these outcomes. 00:51:58.401 --> 00:52:01.342 - So maybe there can be more outcomes underneath that one. 00:52:01.538 --> 00:52:07.430 - And whereas the permitting thing might be underneath something else, but I'm not sure that we have the 00:52:07.430 --> 00:52:13.323 - capacity tonight to nest that, but I'm kind of saying it as back from fiscal committee, because I feel 00:52:13.323 --> 00:52:19.444 - like I've heard both our controller and our deputy mayor talk about that nesting and that that's something 00:52:19.444 --> 00:52:24.478 - that staff is like doing right now, trying to figure out some of those sorts of things. 00:52:24.930 --> 00:52:31.093 - I think it would be maybe the best use of our time to just put the outcomes up there, whether they're 00:52:31.093 --> 00:52:37.135 - short term or whether they're long term, is if we can agree as a body. Yeah, it should go up there. 00:52:37.135 --> 00:52:43.237 - I don't challenge that it's legitimate, even if it might be a longer term versus a shorter term. Can 00:52:43.237 --> 00:52:49.400 - I triangulate on that? To triangulate on that, because I think that's exactly right, hits the nail on 00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:52.542 - the head to me. But just to think about it, I mean, 00:52:52.642 --> 00:53:00.634 - Because we're in one year cycles, there is some benefit in us knowing, to use the metaphorical language, 00:53:00.634 --> 00:53:08.321 - our North Star is making homelessness rare, brief, non-repeating. What is in our budget that's going 00:53:08.321 --> 00:53:14.334 - towards addressing homelessness? And then on a year by year basis, now you go, 00:53:14.498 --> 00:53:20.206 - hey, OK, if we're going to continue funding these things, are we seeing a reduction in the homeless 00:53:20.206 --> 00:53:26.199 - population? And so when you have the long-term goal, it is actually really helpful for us, because later 00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:32.078 - we'll start talking about there's different mechanisms by which it's not just an up-down conversation. 00:53:32.078 --> 00:53:37.843 - Some of it's like, yeah, we continue that. We want to enhance that funding. We might find, hey, this 00:53:37.843 --> 00:53:43.551 - is actually doing well, but we want to raise that by 10x that this year, because it's going so well 00:53:43.551 --> 00:53:44.464 - in years ahead. 00:53:44.464 --> 00:53:49.193 - And so it is useful to sort of tie those rather to the big thing so we don't get Yeah, so I mean because 00:53:49.193 --> 00:53:54.102 - otherwise we'll end up setting ourselves goals like, you know reduce homelessness by one person or something 00:53:54.102 --> 00:53:58.696 - like that And that's worth a million dollars or right? Yeah, I mean, absolutely I just don't think we 00:53:58.696 --> 00:54:03.199 - have the capacity for that. Yeah, we don't do it today Yeah, I'm just saying because I think it was 00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:07.973 - such an important point that we shouldn't that's sort of to to finger. Yeah Okay councilmember Rosenberg. 00:54:07.973 --> 00:54:09.054 - I said I go back to you 00:54:09.922 --> 00:54:19.443 - Something to add up here. This is about permitting so like an hour ago My thought was I thought like 00:54:19.443 --> 00:54:28.964 - the bigger Outcome is like more people talk about more having a more predictable process. So whether 00:54:28.964 --> 00:54:34.526 - that is Ready-made homes or easier permitting, you know, I 00:54:35.202 --> 00:54:41.138 - Those are just two of the things to make a more predictable process. So if somebody knows they're going 00:54:41.138 --> 00:54:47.016 - to be asking for all these variances, the predictability of that is you're not going to get to do this 00:54:47.016 --> 00:54:52.952 - kind of thing, right? But then if you're building in our code, then it's most likely you are. So I feel 00:54:52.952 --> 00:54:58.888 - like it's about predictability is a bigger word for it. Do you want to add that word up there? You have 00:54:58.888 --> 00:55:01.342 - the marker, so I think you have the power. 00:55:01.794 --> 00:55:11.170 - Other things to add to the housing and homelessness category councilmember daily Better coordinated 00:55:11.170 --> 00:55:21.015 - homeless outreach response Wraparound services that type of stuff Does anybody want to ask councilmember 00:55:21.015 --> 00:55:30.110 - daily to defend her position on that comes member Allah could she expound on that? What is that? 00:55:30.626 --> 00:55:37.936 - What does that entail wrap-around services and You know all sorts of social services that go along with 00:55:37.936 --> 00:55:44.965 - trying to get people housed So coordinated wraparound services services for unhoused. Yeah Yeah for 00:55:44.965 --> 00:55:52.204 - sure If the mic didn't pick it up council members who look at it including preventative services. Yes. 00:55:52.204 --> 00:55:53.118 - Thank you. I 00:55:58.466 --> 00:56:16.529 - Coordinated not necessarily increased preventative and wraparound Homeless response services Other thoughts 00:56:16.529 --> 00:56:27.902 - on that one Okay, other ideas for housing and homelessness outcomes 00:56:33.346 --> 00:56:44.069 - I'll say just because in the ideating stage but increasing increasing numbers of temporary shelter or 00:56:44.069 --> 00:56:54.687 - something like that something along those lines beds, okay temporary sheltering options for unhoused 00:56:54.687 --> 00:57:02.782 - I Feel like both of those might be subcategories under making homeless brief 00:57:03.042 --> 00:57:12.313 - Sure rare and non repeating and I'm Yeah Another one count councilmember Rosenberger. Oh, yeah, please 00:57:12.313 --> 00:57:21.763 - go I would like to say I sometimes have to re scroll so There is improved access of neighborhood housing 00:57:21.763 --> 00:57:30.944 - to amenities, but the other side I think is like transit oriented development. So we are focusing our 00:57:30.944 --> 00:57:31.934 - density on 00:57:32.034 --> 00:57:40.299 - areas where people can more easily get around walking or on a bus and then yes transit. So I think it's 00:57:40.299 --> 00:57:48.484 - different than like this one feels like one B to me feels like bringing amenities to communities where 00:57:48.484 --> 00:57:56.749 - I think we should you know increase our density around amenities. Transit oriented development walkable 00:57:56.749 --> 00:58:01.438 - neighborhoods you know anybody. So so basically instead of 00:58:03.266 --> 00:58:12.753 - B seems to imply expanding amenities amenities as opposed to putting housing around amenities. Yes. 00:58:12.753 --> 00:58:22.429 - Second I think that that could be I think that B could be both could include both of those things but 00:58:22.429 --> 00:58:30.398 - that maybe a subset under B would be those two different options. But I don't know. 00:58:33.538 --> 00:58:43.234 - Is different do you want to add it as its own thing? I think you have the marker. I think whoever whoever 00:58:43.234 --> 00:58:52.564 - volunteers to take the notes has All right, any other burning housing and homelessness ones or can we 00:58:52.564 --> 00:59:01.894 - move on to high-performing government? Councilmember sorry This is context dependent so it's not it's 00:59:01.894 --> 00:59:03.358 - maybe not as um 00:59:04.034 --> 00:59:14.534 - write it on the board. Yeah, I don't know. You guys decide what you want to do with it. But something 00:59:14.534 --> 00:59:24.829 - along the lines of Hopewell Summit, seeing those make progress should be a thing in our budget. Oh. 00:59:24.829 --> 00:59:28.638 - Well, I think that that's the, yeah. 00:59:29.314 --> 00:59:36.806 - I'm sorry, I said it might be a little too specific. Yeah, maybe that's too specific is exactly the 00:59:36.806 --> 00:59:44.522 - point I was saying before I said it. But maybe that just falls under A already. I would actually argue 00:59:44.522 --> 00:59:52.014 - that that's not too specific, especially if we're talking about goals for 2027. Maybe it could fall 00:59:52.014 --> 00:59:56.958 - underneath any of a number of things. But framing it almost like, 01:00:01.186 --> 01:00:09.899 - continuing development pace of Already planned projects or something like that or follow through maybe 01:00:09.899 --> 01:00:18.442 - follow through on already planned projects Yeah, go ahead and add it comes member Rosenberger Follow 01:00:18.442 --> 01:00:25.886 - through on already planned projects and then specifically it's hope well and summit and 01:00:32.834 --> 01:00:39.511 - And then we're gonna move to high-performing government. Would somebody else like to take the notes 01:00:39.511 --> 01:00:46.389 - for high-performing government? Or Councilmember Rosenberger, do you like having the, okay. Thank you, 01:00:46.389 --> 01:00:53.467 - Councilmember Piedmont-Smith. So under high-performing government, we have four items. We have engagement 01:00:53.467 --> 01:01:00.278 - processes are inclusive and representative. Community engagement is strong. Responding to the results 01:01:00.278 --> 01:01:02.014 - from the community survey 01:01:03.042 --> 01:01:12.232 - Those three were from the comprehensive plan and then last one is from the climate action plan new financing 01:01:12.232 --> 01:01:20.917 - Mechanisms are achieved to fund city climate action plan implementation Councilmember sorry, would you 01:01:20.917 --> 01:01:29.770 - like to Thank you does anybody have anything to add to high-performing governance Councilmember Flaherty 01:01:29.770 --> 01:01:30.782 - I think I'm 01:01:31.714 --> 01:01:40.902 - actually this system and in particular having a set of plans that broadly reflects the major range of 01:01:40.902 --> 01:01:50.630 - city responsibilities and services is to me maybe the highest, like a very high, high performing governance 01:01:50.630 --> 01:01:59.998 - goal. So public safety is an example, right? We wanted to work on public safety with the administration 01:02:00.386 --> 01:02:05.577 - The prior administration, we weren't successful in being able to find a collaborative structure to do 01:02:05.577 --> 01:02:10.717 - that. So we created a community advisory and public safety commission. They did a bunch of community 01:02:10.717 --> 01:02:16.112 - engagement outreach, created a plan, or at least a set of recommendations, right? I think how much better 01:02:16.112 --> 01:02:21.201 - that could be if it was a mayoral council process like other city plans. And so how much that could 01:02:21.201 --> 01:02:26.291 - actually get alignment around shared goals and vision for the public safety system at large that we 01:02:26.291 --> 01:02:27.614 - often struggle to do now. 01:02:28.610 --> 01:02:36.317 - Surely there are some operational type things that aren't going to enter that sphere. But I think there 01:02:36.317 --> 01:02:44.024 - are major categories missing from what I would call city plans. And I think actually moving toward that 01:02:44.024 --> 01:02:51.582 - would be an important outcome. Achieving that would be an important outcome. So city plans for things 01:02:51.582 --> 01:02:54.398 - that don't currently have plans? Yes. 01:02:55.362 --> 01:03:01.424 - or collaborative system with with with jointly developed community uniforms city plans that broadly 01:03:01.424 --> 01:03:07.971 - reflect the full range of city services and Operations, I don't know councilmember Piedmont Smith, however, 01:03:07.971 --> 01:03:14.276 - you want to shorten that I'm gonna leave that to you I think that's something we should discuss further 01:03:14.276 --> 01:03:20.702 - because the question is like a budget because I agree I agree with the with the goal but then budgetarily 01:03:20.962 --> 01:03:27.337 - I'm like, OK, how do we do that? Is it like we want money for more consultants? Do we want like, right? 01:03:27.337 --> 01:03:33.834 - And so what's the, I suppose that there is a, just think budgetarily, because again, I think your example 01:03:33.834 --> 01:03:40.270 - is a really strong one. But it's like, how do we stop that from being a runaway train of like, oh, we're 01:03:40.270 --> 01:03:46.829 - just going to do all these plans, which is contrary to also the conversation we had last year with budget, 01:03:46.829 --> 01:03:49.342 - right? No, we'd have to agree on budget. 01:03:49.634 --> 01:03:55.462 - what's missing, what needs updated, and reflect what's a reasonable scope. I mean, that would be entailed. 01:03:55.462 --> 01:04:01.180 - I think it would have to be funded. Often, we don't have either expertise or capacity in-house, at least 01:04:01.180 --> 01:04:06.735 - to independently and fully develop something like that, especially something that could have a fairly 01:04:06.735 --> 01:04:12.236 - uniform system of outcomes, metrics, KPIs, leading indicators that could actually allow us to have a 01:04:12.236 --> 01:04:17.846 - whole system. So that will entail funding. It will entail some conversation to have agreement on where 01:04:17.846 --> 01:04:19.262 - we're headed. Absolutely. 01:04:19.362 --> 01:04:25.359 - a set of budget it's like relatively minor it probably in terms of overall budget impact and how long 01:04:25.359 --> 01:04:31.356 - that would last but it does cost money so yeah but but I think and it's just following up to that the 01:04:31.356 --> 01:04:34.942 - thing I was laughing about earlier is because this is I mean 01:04:35.362 --> 01:04:43.008 - Reading it again in this context, object C, thing C, respond to the results from the community survey, 01:04:43.008 --> 01:04:50.432 - I think, is such a fascinating statement, right? It really is, because it's like a contested thing. 01:04:50.432 --> 01:04:56.222 - We're always like, well, the community survey says this. It's like, ah, well. 01:04:56.482 --> 01:05:02.258 - Other things say other things and so it like it's I think I just think a very fascinating thing to bring 01:05:02.258 --> 01:05:07.814 - up here But it raises it does get back to take councilman Flaherty is structural point here Which is 01:05:07.814 --> 01:05:13.480 - there there may be a reframing of see a little bit to be like we actually need the capacity to do that 01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:16.286 - like this is a nice intention and and I think that 01:05:16.418 --> 01:05:21.866 - I wonder the extent to which we can actually do things like that. I would argue that that's not the 01:05:21.866 --> 01:05:27.369 - question that we're talking about tonight. You don't think so? I would argue that if we as a council 01:05:27.369 --> 01:05:32.981 - all mark that as our top priority in high-performing government, then what we're doing is we're asking 01:05:32.981 --> 01:05:38.484 - the administration to figure out a way to fund that. I'm with you. So we're not trying to figure out 01:05:38.484 --> 01:05:44.314 - how to fund it today. I'm with you. I'm still talking. Oh, OK. I was still talking before when you started 01:05:44.314 --> 01:05:46.384 - talking. The thing about the response 01:05:46.384 --> 01:05:51.997 - the results from the community survey, the thing that I was saying is that the question about structure 01:05:51.997 --> 01:05:57.555 - is like I think there's this interesting point here that should be on high performing government which 01:05:57.555 --> 01:06:02.952 - is like funding our capacity to do things like responding to the results from the community survey. 01:06:02.952 --> 01:06:08.565 - That's what I'm saying. Not we need to figure out how do we do this. I'm just saying like to Councillor 01:06:08.565 --> 01:06:14.015 - Flaherty's point, what are the structures necessary to actually act on the plans that we're going to 01:06:14.015 --> 01:06:16.336 - develop is an interesting thing to put on. 01:06:16.336 --> 01:06:22.939 - as an outcome there. Preconditions kind of, like they need to be, enabling conditions, they need to 01:06:22.939 --> 01:06:29.609 - be in place to be able to do the whole thing we're trying to do. Right, exactly, yeah. I don't know, 01:06:29.609 --> 01:06:36.279 - I was asking what it was before I was told that we weren't allowed to say that, so I don't know, but 01:06:36.279 --> 01:06:42.750 - that was what I was trying to explore, the question of like, what would that be, this question of 01:06:42.978 --> 01:06:53.250 - You know increasing our capacity to be responsive like but that seems circular to the topic. So That's 01:06:53.250 --> 01:07:03.423 - member Rosenberger Question 2d Where did that specifically come from it feels so specific compared to 01:07:03.423 --> 01:07:12.798 - a BNC so New finance financing mechanisms are achieved to fund the climate action plan I mean 01:07:13.250 --> 01:07:21.120 - Because well, that is my question Councilmember Piedmont Smith Well, that was in the climate action 01:07:21.120 --> 01:07:29.383 - plan to find new funding mechanisms, yeah, that's why it says cap goal, whatever Okay, because I I guess 01:07:29.383 --> 01:07:37.252 - I think for all of our plans Well, they all need to all of our community goals and plans. They need 01:07:37.252 --> 01:07:38.590 - to be funded and 01:07:39.458 --> 01:07:48.230 - So it's OK, I guess, that the climate action plan actually typed it out. But I think of high-performing 01:07:48.230 --> 01:07:56.833 - government, a lot of this is based around resident engagement. Well, the first three are. But I think 01:07:56.833 --> 01:08:05.436 - two, engagement is inherently unequal. And there's nothing in here about a high-performing government 01:08:05.436 --> 01:08:08.894 - that is governing for those that are not 01:08:10.210 --> 01:08:18.257 - the meetings and so like to me that is data driven and and also like our community plans and goals driven 01:08:18.257 --> 01:08:26.304 - so to me a high-performing government is a government that is reaching its goals sometimes without having 01:08:26.304 --> 01:08:33.972 - to check 20 times with the public to be like can we still do this goal so like it's also I mean it's 01:08:33.972 --> 01:08:35.870 - about being efficient so 01:08:36.130 --> 01:08:43.621 - I mean just like transportation plan related, right? We have this community like high priority network 01:08:43.621 --> 01:08:51.622 - and still we're going back and doing a year at a time to study a street. But we already have a transportation 01:08:51.622 --> 01:08:59.331 - plan with kind of changing these streets. So I guess I think like acting on our goals is high performing. 01:08:59.331 --> 01:09:05.950 - And then you know kind of doing something about how like public engagement is not a subset 01:09:06.050 --> 01:09:15.313 - of our, it's not representative of our population, right? It's just not like an evaluation survey or 01:09:15.313 --> 01:09:24.851 - something. It's just a group that came out. Sorry about mine. So can we, can you tilt the board so that 01:09:24.851 --> 01:09:34.390 - we can see it? So should that increased capacity to, from council member, sorry, be complete, increased 01:09:34.390 --> 01:09:35.582 - capacity to, 01:09:37.442 --> 01:09:45.868 - Implement City plans the or implement existing plans. Is that what just I don't think it has to be connected 01:09:45.868 --> 01:09:53.753 - to that I mean, I think high-performing government is So do you just want to be implement? Yeah, like 01:09:53.753 --> 01:10:01.560 - this work on like attaining city agreed on goals, right? Like I think that is high-performing to me. 01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:07.358 - I guess So implementation of existing plans as well does anybody want to I 01:10:07.618 --> 01:10:18.674 - challenge councilmember Rosenberger's assertion of putting that as a as an outcome All right next other 01:10:18.674 --> 01:10:29.731 - high-performing government additions Well, it's related maybe I think would be helpful to have a status 01:10:29.731 --> 01:10:37.598 - report of maintenance of maintenance and services the city in other words 01:10:40.130 --> 01:10:50.900 - Where are we in terms of road paving and scheduling and priorities of road paving or whatnot? There 01:10:50.900 --> 01:11:02.100 - was a point when, totally unknown to me, that the fire department fell into great disrepair. Their fire 01:11:02.100 --> 01:11:08.670 - engines literally had holes in the floor, and to his credit, 01:11:09.122 --> 01:11:17.954 - Mayor Hamilton stepped up and Discovered this and we made a lot of capital investment in fire engines 01:11:17.954 --> 01:11:26.787 - It took everybody it took most of council by surprise. So if we had you know some basic Report status 01:11:26.787 --> 01:11:35.533 - report of departments in terms of you know capacity of water treatment or you know You know whatever 01:11:35.533 --> 01:11:38.910 - it is then we would have a baseline of 01:11:39.042 --> 01:11:46.222 - I think that we could refer to So councilmember Piedmont Smith wrote that up there as maintained city 01:11:46.222 --> 01:11:53.612 - assets. So would that be the overarching? And then maintain city assets assets. Yes. Yeah. So then there 01:11:53.612 --> 01:12:00.722 - would be potentially several, you know subcategories underneath that of how exactly to make sure all 01:12:00.722 --> 01:12:03.678 - those things are maintained but does that 01:12:04.290 --> 01:12:11.758 - Yeah, and I would assume that every department had is already aware of this and could communicate it 01:12:11.758 --> 01:12:19.743 - and you know a brief presentation during budget time Okay, you know And that way this it's also informative 01:12:19.743 --> 01:12:27.359 - to the public I mean the public a Lot of the public doesn't know everything the city does and you know 01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:32.830 - these basic services and maintenance would be helpful to them to know and 01:12:36.418 --> 01:12:45.411 - All right, other outcomes to put under high performing government. Council member, sorry. I think we 01:12:45.411 --> 01:12:54.938 - need something about council and clerk's office here too, but I'm struggling to think. So I'm just putting 01:12:54.938 --> 01:13:01.438 - out there and again, hoping that we can talk about it like things around 01:13:01.922 --> 01:13:09.864 - time of our meetings, accessibility of our meetings, things of that nature. I think maybe investments 01:13:09.864 --> 01:13:17.961 - in accessibility might be relevant. For our 2027? Sorry, I'm hesitating on that because we're federally 01:13:17.961 --> 01:13:25.825 - required right now to invest a whole ton in accessibility. So I'm questioning whether that should be 01:13:25.825 --> 01:13:29.406 - an outcome for 2027 that we want to focus on. 01:13:32.546 --> 01:13:39.378 - I think broadly there's council functioning, clerk functioning needs to fall under this banner of high 01:13:39.378 --> 01:13:46.078 - performing government and we should have some discussion about that too. Okay, council member Zulek. 01:13:46.078 --> 01:13:52.711 - Thank you. I have a different comment. Just when we think about the engagement process, if we truly 01:13:52.711 --> 01:13:59.344 - want it to be inclusive and representative, the majority of the people who are most impacted by the 01:13:59.344 --> 01:14:02.462 - decisions that we make are never in this room. 01:14:03.010 --> 01:14:10.420 - And so when we think about the engagement process, what we should be thinking about is what rooms do 01:14:10.420 --> 01:14:17.904 - we need to be in as individual policymakers that will help better inform us for the people who cannot 01:14:17.904 --> 01:14:25.460 - be in these rooms because they're working or taking care of their children or both. Thank you. Is that 01:14:25.460 --> 01:14:31.550 - does that go into one of our into an outcome category in some way that can be like 01:14:33.122 --> 01:14:39.418 - categorized or does, I mean, I feel like that kind of falls under A, engagement processes are inclusive 01:14:39.418 --> 01:14:45.532 - and representative because I do feel like that includes the onus on us as government to go to places 01:14:45.532 --> 01:14:51.768 - where people are and not just expect them to come to us in terms of those engagement processes. I feel 01:14:51.768 --> 01:14:58.124 - like that includes a whole lot of stuff. Yes, it does. I just wanted to make sure that I said it because 01:14:58.124 --> 01:15:02.846 - it's very broad and so if we left it broad, I just wanted to make sure that I 01:15:03.714 --> 01:15:13.352 - Made that point. Okay, so we want a subcategory underneath engagement processes that is a focus on Going 01:15:13.352 --> 01:15:22.622 - out instead of expecting people to come in. Yes, I think the owner should be on us. Okay So reaching 01:15:22.622 --> 01:15:26.110 - out as part of engagement I guess yes 01:15:29.602 --> 01:15:37.440 - Any other additions for high-performing government and I do want to note that it's 747 right now and 01:15:37.440 --> 01:15:45.356 - we have like four more of these to go councilmember Rallo I think it's a great idea. I think that You 01:15:45.356 --> 01:15:53.117 - know councils done it before and in the past it sometimes helped coordinate with the administration 01:15:53.117 --> 01:15:58.782 - to have You know relevant department heads maybe join us In You know our 01:15:59.426 --> 01:16:05.789 - Outreach to the public or going outside of council chambers meeting in various places in the city So 01:16:05.789 --> 01:16:12.088 - it's something to coordinate with the administration Okay, do you have another thing to add because 01:16:12.088 --> 01:16:18.892 - just for clarity I'm I really want to want to get us through making the list so that then we can prioritize 01:16:18.892 --> 01:16:25.758 - the list that we make Otherwise, we're never going to get to the prioritizing part councilmember Rosenberger 01:16:26.850 --> 01:16:33.322 - What I would like to say is I don't think we're getting through the list but number two is I Think that's 01:16:33.322 --> 01:16:39.671 - okay. Number two is Based on our meeting that we had two hours ago plus other things that come to light 01:16:39.671 --> 01:16:45.898 - sometimes maybe I don't know if councilmember I was saying this but There's no high performance right 01:16:45.898 --> 01:16:52.065 - now between the administration and City Council and I don't know What that looks like, you know, but 01:16:52.065 --> 01:16:56.094 - it's definitely not learning about something a couple days before 01:16:56.386 --> 01:17:04.071 - There's a $7 million vote, you know? So maybe, you know, being brought in, having council be seen as 01:17:04.071 --> 01:17:11.909 - a co-equal branch of government, I don't know exactly. I mean, we can say words like collaboration and 01:17:11.909 --> 01:17:19.975 - communication, but I think those don't really go anywhere. So I don't know if anybody has a good outcome. 01:17:19.975 --> 01:17:25.758 - I mean, I guess it's an outcome, not yes. Well, I don't get to call on you. 01:17:26.914 --> 01:17:35.626 - Something about information exchange maybe? It may not be budgetary. Sometimes in like smart goals or 01:17:35.626 --> 01:17:44.424 - smart e-goals context, when I'm having a hard time finding exactly how to measure something, just like 01:17:44.424 --> 01:17:52.966 - an as assessed by X through Y process can kind of get you there. And so, you know, if we had mutual 01:17:52.966 --> 01:17:55.870 - set of questions and ratings from 01:17:56.322 --> 01:18:03.066 - the mayor and her chief people about engaging and functioning with the council and vice versa. Just 01:18:03.066 --> 01:18:09.877 - some check ins on how's it going. Do we feel like we're part of the conversation on important policy 01:18:09.877 --> 01:18:16.957 - matters? Do you know like actually measuring that like could help move beyond just like being frustrated 01:18:16.957 --> 01:18:24.510 - about a thing and speaking about it. I don't think that's like necessarily a budget priority but I do think it. 01:18:24.610 --> 01:18:29.484 - Well, it's high performing. It matters. High performing government. That's true. I think that it's an 01:18:29.484 --> 01:18:34.358 - outcome. I don't know if it's a budgetary implication, I guess. Yeah. Well, I think that goes back to 01:18:34.358 --> 01:18:39.327 - what Council Member Asari was saying earlier. I think it was time that some things cost a lot, and some 01:18:39.327 --> 01:18:44.392 - things don't cost as much. But they can still be important outcomes. Sure, sure. Right. And to the point. 01:18:44.392 --> 01:18:49.219 - Maybe communication systems. To the point kind of at the very outset of the meeting, which is that a 01:18:49.219 --> 01:18:53.758 - lot of things to achieve outcomes are actually just policy changes that they might not entail. 01:18:54.242 --> 01:19:01.978 - real discernible budget item at all So Okay, I think that this is going to be my goal I think that my 01:19:01.978 --> 01:19:09.714 - goal is to get through economic development as a third bucket and then we can prioritize Within those 01:19:09.714 --> 01:19:17.450 - maybe we can take public comment after we make our lists and then after public comment we can just do 01:19:17.450 --> 01:19:21.470 - the ranking of the three things that we have done so 01:19:22.338 --> 01:19:30.099 - Economic development has a whole lot of outcomes that are already listed in our packet and some of them 01:19:30.099 --> 01:19:37.486 - I think have already or are already currently occurring like number one quality wired and wireless 01:19:37.486 --> 01:19:45.023 - connectivity is available throughout the city be income inequality is reduced across and between all 01:19:45.023 --> 01:19:47.038 - ages races and genders and 01:19:47.970 --> 01:19:55.000 - C, career pathways and training are engaging residents and businesses. D, entrepreneurial activity has 01:19:55.000 --> 01:20:02.030 - increased and a culture of entrepreneurialism is being sustained. E, wages, jobs and GDP are outpacing 01:20:02.030 --> 01:20:09.401 - population growth. F, enhance the arts and culture industry in Bloomington. G, downtown events are frequent 01:20:09.401 --> 01:20:15.134 - and well attended. H, the downtown business environment is vibrant and sustainable. 01:20:15.266 --> 01:20:22.637 - Ni downtown buildings and sites with blight or disrepair have been identified and remedied all of those 01:20:22.637 --> 01:20:29.725 - are from the comp plan Then we have two climate action goals one the local marketplace is resilient 01:20:29.725 --> 01:20:37.096 - to climate change and to Increase number of businesses that are committed to sustainability and climate 01:20:37.096 --> 01:20:42.270 - goals Who has something to add to the economic developments outcome list 01:20:46.594 --> 01:20:59.241 - Councilmember daily attract employers offering living wage jobs Which is maybe a subcategory under e 01:20:59.241 --> 01:21:08.382 - for creation of wages and jobs but a very specific Metric of living wage 01:21:13.410 --> 01:21:21.531 - Anybody want to want to debate that one with councilmembers daily All right other additions under economic 01:21:21.531 --> 01:21:29.273 - development I Know it's already a pretty big list for economic development councilmember Rosenberger. 01:21:29.273 --> 01:21:37.090 - You look like you might I think though. Thank you. I think the list is it's like weirdly more specific 01:21:37.090 --> 01:21:40.126 - than other lists and I don't know if we 01:21:40.706 --> 01:21:48.511 - That matters right now. I mean just sort of downtown events are frequent and well attended is It doesn't 01:21:48.511 --> 01:21:56.018 - it doesn't feel like it's on the same level, but I guess you said earlier we're just gonna put stuff 01:21:56.018 --> 01:22:03.675 - out there and then Decide if it kind of stays or moves around later That's it Other things that people 01:22:03.675 --> 01:22:05.310 - can think of to add I 01:22:12.994 --> 01:22:19.770 - I see a couple of people like almost saying something like like they almost have an addition in this 01:22:19.770 --> 01:22:26.614 - way Councilmember Rosemarger because I don't have the thought formed like it's fine. It's just usual. 01:22:26.614 --> 01:22:33.390 - I'm really burnt out after that last meeting I I don't know where this goes or exactly but it's like 01:22:33.390 --> 01:22:40.569 - It's kind of modern-day economic development that is very like it's more about like creating third places, 01:22:40.569 --> 01:22:41.374 - I guess the 01:22:41.826 --> 01:22:49.389 - the top phrase, buzz phrase, right? How we talk about Kirkwood as a shared street, so a place that we 01:22:49.389 --> 01:22:56.878 - don't have in the city where people can go outside and be in this place where they can eat and drink 01:22:56.878 --> 01:23:04.441 - and shop and buy things. Without the constraints of needing a car or something. So it's kind of like, 01:23:04.441 --> 01:23:09.854 - I think this, to me, this economic development goal that is connected to 01:23:10.370 --> 01:23:18.427 - comprehensive plan of more like neighborhood hubs or like just that We have these areas like neighborhood 01:23:18.427 --> 01:23:26.104 - hubs in third places. See how this isn't properly formed, but like it's Thanks, I think it's because 01:23:26.104 --> 01:23:33.781 - I feel like this is a lot about businesses a Through K kind of but like economic development is also 01:23:33.781 --> 01:23:40.318 - about creating the place the places that make community and feel like a community and 01:23:40.482 --> 01:23:49.199 - And I feel like that's not like really one of the outcomes that's on here right now. OK. So Councilmember 01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:57.587 - Piedmont-Smith, create vibrant third places or maybe slash that. Neighborhood hubs. Neighborhood hubs 01:23:57.587 --> 01:24:06.632 - because that might be more understandable to a more. Does anybody want to question or challenge Councilmember 01:24:06.632 --> 01:24:08.606 - Rosenberger's addition? 01:24:09.282 --> 01:24:16.516 - I feel like that's in the comprehensive plan somewhere, too. The hub is, for sure, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 01:24:16.516 --> 01:24:23.964 - I think that in the comprehensive plan, it might be under housing. But I think it's one of those things 01:24:23.964 --> 01:24:31.413 - that can go into multiple categories. Councilmember Rallo. I'm in agreement. I think it jibes well with 01:24:31.413 --> 01:24:38.718 - some of these other goals. Downtown business environment is vibrant and sustainable. Downtown events. 01:24:38.946 --> 01:24:48.094 - so it seems important to have public spaces where people gather and then support businesses and to the 01:24:48.094 --> 01:24:57.597 - extent that people feel Welcome and safe and that it's an aesthetic place and that you know it's conducive 01:24:57.597 --> 01:25:08.254 - so Councilman Rosenberger you were Kind of reiterating what you said All right any other economic development additions 01:25:08.706 --> 01:25:18.692 - Councilmember sorry Empty spaces there's empty, you know processes to fill empty Store friends, etc. 01:25:18.692 --> 01:25:28.677 - Okay And Are you mostly thinking about the first floor retail first for retail things on the square? 01:25:28.677 --> 01:25:38.366 - This and maybe a subpoint to you know spaces are activated right but which is on here already and 01:25:39.874 --> 01:25:46.966 - But what can we do to get more businesses into places if there's some way to do that through investment? 01:25:46.966 --> 01:25:54.395 - Yeah, I think that that could be a new one, activating currently vacant spaces. Because you don't necessarily 01:25:54.395 --> 01:26:01.284 - need to activate it with entrepreneurial activity, which is D. And those spaces aren't necessarily in 01:26:01.284 --> 01:26:08.037 - plight or disrepair, which is I. But they just, yeah, it's that first floor retail that we required 01:26:08.037 --> 01:26:09.118 - people to build 01:26:09.858 --> 01:26:19.501 - But did not require that they fill Does anybody want to challenge that as an outcome councilmember rough 01:26:19.501 --> 01:26:28.868 - Well, I'm not sure I want to challenge it but you know, I like that we we don't really have any place 01:26:28.868 --> 01:26:38.878 - that I seen here that Suggests that growth in the physical environment or even our population is necessarily 01:26:39.298 --> 01:26:47.798 - Goal in its own, right? Just just growth So maybe under that one we're talking about D entrepreneurial 01:26:47.798 --> 01:26:56.546 - activities increased maybe Putting per capita in there because one could have an entrepreneurial activity 01:26:56.546 --> 01:27:04.881 - increased but actually not Benefit Because it per capita it's not really helping you're just growing 01:27:04.881 --> 01:27:07.934 - things and maybe having the total of 01:27:08.194 --> 01:27:16.877 - of more entrepreneurial activity. So maybe just having something in the repertoire. So per capita income 01:27:16.877 --> 01:27:25.394 - growth or per capita economic growth, is that? Well, yeah. But that particular one, D, entrepreneurial 01:27:25.394 --> 01:27:33.746 - activity has increased. In total, that doesn't necessarily tell us anything, whether it's benefiting 01:27:33.746 --> 01:27:38.046 - our other goals, our economic goals, unless we say, 01:27:38.498 --> 01:27:49.823 - If we want more entrepreneurial activity, are we talking here about just more, or are we talking about 01:27:49.823 --> 01:28:01.918 - more per unit, per capita, per more entrepreneurial initiative and activity and encouragement and investment? 01:28:04.642 --> 01:28:13.901 - Can't tell if you're suggesting a new outcome or if you're just kind of Commenting on an existing one 01:28:13.901 --> 01:28:23.523 - that you are not sure of It's the only thing I see in the whole List that doesn't that's it that suggests 01:28:23.523 --> 01:28:28.062 - that maybe we're just talking about just more and 01:28:31.394 --> 01:28:40.077 - I've been thinking about this is that I wonder if this bucket might be better called economic health 01:28:40.077 --> 01:28:48.760 - or something like that than economic development, which to your point, I think we've done a good job 01:28:48.760 --> 01:28:55.294 - of not framing it all as just growth for growth sake or anything like that. 01:28:55.554 --> 01:29:01.316 - But I was just thinking about like to this broader point about space making, place making, which I know 01:29:01.316 --> 01:29:06.913 - we've considered, but I think as we continue to have this conversation about economic development, I 01:29:06.913 --> 01:29:12.453 - think it would be useful for us to think about, it is a very wide category, and think about what we 01:29:12.453 --> 01:29:18.382 - want to prioritize in terms of this, you know, the years ahead, things that we really want to see invested 01:29:18.382 --> 01:29:21.374 - in to create more vitality and health in the economy. 01:29:21.506 --> 01:29:28.009 - And so I also, in addition to like vibrant third places, I'm thinking about a vibrant art scene, 01:29:28.009 --> 01:29:34.780 - for example, more spaces for performance, you know, studios, and I know a lot of that's in progress, 01:29:34.780 --> 01:29:41.684 - so, but thinking about some things like that, I think people often call those like backwaters as well, 01:29:41.684 --> 01:29:48.858 - sort of in art scenes, interested in that. I'm also interested in thinking about, there's some demographic 01:29:48.858 --> 01:29:51.472 - conversations here, so we talked about 01:29:51.472 --> 01:29:58.227 - about attracting businesses that pay living wage, yes, but it's also about how do we attract that age 01:29:58.227 --> 01:30:04.982 - group that's sort of missing in Bloomington. Yeah, so thinking about those broader categories I think 01:30:04.982 --> 01:30:12.001 - is useful too. Yeah, and this starts to kind of blend in a little bit with community health and vitality, 01:30:12.001 --> 01:30:18.756 - which is one of the topics. Right, exactly. Because there's also the arts and cultural events in that 01:30:18.756 --> 01:30:20.478 - section as well. Exactly. 01:30:21.282 --> 01:30:27.304 - Exactly where they're overlapping a bit Well, and I would also like to point out that councilmember 01:30:27.304 --> 01:30:33.445 - Piedmont Smith made this list kind of an isolation to the best that she could in terms of what things 01:30:33.445 --> 01:30:39.587 - fit where And that another piece of comment could also be hey I think that you know This thing should 01:30:39.587 --> 01:30:45.669 - actually go under a different bucket instead of the one that it's under that We're not tied to these 01:30:45.669 --> 01:30:50.366 - lists being in certain places. But to that point do we need to add? Something 01:30:53.954 --> 01:31:04.451 - Okay, this is what I was thinking to add instead of being a called economic development, you know to 01:31:04.451 --> 01:31:14.844 - be economic health As the title like does that matter in terms of what we think about going under I 01:31:14.844 --> 01:31:22.846 - Like helps does does anybody want to come to councilmember Piedmont Smith? I 01:31:25.122 --> 01:31:32.201 - I'm trying to understand how to capture the conversation that, or the comments from Council Member Ruff 01:31:32.201 --> 01:31:39.484 - and Council Member Osari as another point here. I mean, I think coming up with a new label for the heading 01:31:39.484 --> 01:31:46.426 - that is not as important as making sure to capture what was said as like, so Council Member Ruff, how 01:31:46.426 --> 01:31:53.573 - would you express this desire to not have growth for growth's sake as like an outcome? Actually, Council 01:31:53.573 --> 01:31:54.526 - Member Osari, 01:31:54.978 --> 01:32:03.306 - He did a great job of getting at what I was getting at when he referred also to, for example, the arts, 01:32:03.306 --> 01:32:11.394 - right? It's not just more. We want more per to enrich. But you don't necessarily get enrichment just 01:32:11.394 --> 01:32:20.202 - from having more. So it's quality over quantity. Is quality a word that you want to stick in there somewhere? 01:32:20.202 --> 01:32:24.126 - Well, but it's also this whole idea of per unit. 01:32:25.026 --> 01:32:34.421 - like this per capita. That's what we're trying to, that's our goal ultimately, right? That's how things 01:32:34.421 --> 01:32:43.907 - are made better. So I kinda like Councilmember Osorio's idea of using this term health or somehow making 01:32:43.907 --> 01:32:51.134 - it more clear in the general and then we wouldn't have to specifically identify 01:32:52.130 --> 01:32:58.487 - Like the specific sub areas if we've captured it with this larger conceptual term, I don't I don't So 01:32:58.487 --> 01:33:04.970 - so doesn't necessarily go on there is an additional outcome but that Were you just not sure that's what 01:33:04.970 --> 01:33:11.202 - I was thinking initially, but after a couple members. Sorry Mase comments. I'm thinking it captures 01:33:11.202 --> 01:33:14.942 - more to have a kind of something beyond just an outcome and 01:33:24.898 --> 01:33:34.108 - I just wanna make sure that we get something up there if there's something that you want up there, but 01:33:34.108 --> 01:33:43.049 - I'm still not sure what it would be that you would want up there. But Council Member Piedmont-Smith 01:33:43.049 --> 01:33:52.437 - just wrote per capita. Yeah, I mean, I'm happy with that being just in D, but I like what Council Member 01:33:52.437 --> 01:33:54.494 - Starry was getting at, 01:33:54.690 --> 01:34:02.328 - This is really a lot of our whole larger goal here because economics should include Things he was mentioning 01:34:02.328 --> 01:34:09.546 - like, you know, we're enriching the arts people's lives through the arts quality of life here It comes 01:34:09.546 --> 01:34:16.764 - I don't know maybe you're kind of talking to you about like I when Council members sorry I was talking 01:34:16.764 --> 01:34:24.542 - I thought it did also kind of like go under like vibrant third places and hubs just like it feels kind of like 01:34:25.090 --> 01:34:31.560 - almost like enhancing those communities more, like the arts community. I don't know if that's kind of 01:34:31.560 --> 01:34:37.904 - like making it a draw for like, oh, I wanna go create in Bloomington because people are creating in 01:34:37.904 --> 01:34:43.867 - the space in there, like warehouses that you rent. I don't know, I just, maybe you're saying, 01:34:43.867 --> 01:34:50.464 - it to me sounds, yeah, more like a space making or place making specific, I don't know. I mean, because 01:34:50.464 --> 01:34:54.334 - it does in here say enhance the arts, right, but you're not, 01:34:55.458 --> 01:35:03.800 - That's not it, it sounds like you're more of... Yeah, I'm not sure I catch it, but it just stemmed from 01:35:03.800 --> 01:35:12.221 - seeing what Council Member Piemont Smith had kind of given us here and noticing that it was pretty clear 01:35:12.221 --> 01:35:19.600 - that we weren't talking just about growth for the sake of growth, but then I saw that on D, 01:35:19.600 --> 01:35:24.894 - on item D, that it just simply said, increase entrepreneurialism. 01:35:25.346 --> 01:35:31.894 - got me to thinking we want to be consistent with everything and That could be misinterpreted. 01:35:31.894 --> 01:35:39.209 - But I mean, I'm okay not to add anything. We had the discussion and it was productive. I feel like Okay, 01:35:39.209 --> 01:35:46.803 - I do want to note that that councilmember Piedmont Smith did add per capita economic slash arts enhancement. 01:35:46.803 --> 01:35:53.978 - So Yeah any other additions under economic development? Councilmember Rallo I was still under economic 01:35:53.978 --> 01:35:54.814 - development 01:35:56.002 --> 01:36:03.510 - Yeah. I mean, this is sort of land use related, but I think we've ignored a whole section of within 01:36:03.510 --> 01:36:11.094 - the land use chapter, which has to do with economic development. And that is the concept of an urban 01:36:11.094 --> 01:36:18.602 - village center. So I mean, it's a big ask because there's a lot entailed, but that does appear in a 01:36:18.602 --> 01:36:24.158 - comprehensive plan. Is there any effort devoted to urban village centers? 01:36:24.738 --> 01:36:31.145 - Well, I think that that's what's up there right now under vibrant third places or neighborhood hubs 01:36:31.145 --> 01:36:37.615 - the neighborhood hubs. Oh Great. Could you just write urban ieve urban Village Center? Okay, because 01:36:37.615 --> 01:36:44.470 - that's how it appears in the comp plan because I would think is it is it in the comp plan as urban Village 01:36:44.470 --> 01:36:51.005 - Center except that was in there in their neighborhood hub in the planning chapter Okay, might be both 01:36:51.005 --> 01:36:52.094 - There's the food 01:36:52.322 --> 01:36:58.270 - systems there as well, which plays a role, yeah. All right, any other additions up there? I realize 01:36:58.270 --> 01:37:04.277 - this probably goes more on high performing government, but as I talked about permitting for housing, 01:37:04.277 --> 01:37:10.582 - I think business permitting also matters here, sort of licenses and permitting falls somewhere in between 01:37:10.582 --> 01:37:16.054 - these two. So I'm just throwing it out there. And so same thing, improving the speed, ease, 01:37:16.054 --> 01:37:20.158 - customer service, you name it, of people trying to do business here. 01:37:22.018 --> 01:37:28.787 - Trying to put signs up as well Other additions or are we ready to go to public comment right now? Alright 01:37:28.787 --> 01:37:35.236 - seeing no other additions I do want to go to public comment next because is 820 and so or 810 and so 01:37:35.236 --> 01:37:41.621 - I want to recognize that we do have a couple members of the public in the room and I see that there 01:37:41.621 --> 01:37:48.198 - are some online participants as well so we'll have public comment and during public comment if council 01:37:48.198 --> 01:37:51.902 - members can think about more than one thing at a time and 01:37:52.034 --> 01:37:58.526 - Think about how you might pick your top three priorities amongst these economic development, high-performing 01:37:58.526 --> 01:38:04.840 - government, and housing and homelessness that we have really drilled down on this evening. And if members 01:38:04.840 --> 01:38:10.975 - of the public would like to speak, I see somebody coming to the table in person. If you're online, you 01:38:10.975 --> 01:38:14.430 - can go ahead and raise your hand using the Reactions tab. 01:38:14.530 --> 01:38:21.409 - But we'll go ahead and start here in chambers Go ahead and state your name for the record and then you'll 01:38:21.409 --> 01:38:28.028 - have three minutes and I the The clerk is out right now, but we'll figure out a sign-in sheet for you 01:38:28.028 --> 01:38:34.517 - in a minute. Go ahead Good evening council. This is Christopher energy from the Greater Bloomington 01:38:34.517 --> 01:38:41.137 - Chamber of Commerce And I think this is the closest I've been next to you during public comment. It's 01:38:41.137 --> 01:38:42.110 - very close and 01:38:42.306 --> 01:38:47.491 - Deliberation meeting and I I don't think it's quite you're gonna hit your greatest hits album But I 01:38:47.491 --> 01:38:52.677 - think there are some good notes that I want to disconnect to talk about when we talk about granular 01:38:52.677 --> 01:38:57.862 - improvements One thing with the outcome-based budget I worry about that This is going to be all too 01:38:57.862 --> 01:39:03.047 - encompassing and you'll get a lot of places and then ultimately nowhere so keep it that incremental 01:39:03.047 --> 01:39:04.862 - improvement on where you're at and 01:39:05.634 --> 01:39:11.862 - One of the things I wanted to talk about that I just sort of circled I highlighted was Councilmember 01:39:11.862 --> 01:39:18.028 - Rallo statement about maintaining city assets This is what you have data on already from all of the 01:39:18.028 --> 01:39:24.503 - departments I know Public Works has their software and take a look at that where we're at on just paving 01:39:24.503 --> 01:39:26.846 - or cars and with the Parks Department 01:39:26.946 --> 01:39:33.024 - and see where we are on that. If that is a priority, that's something that you can dig in right away 01:39:33.024 --> 01:39:39.282 - and have a really good deliberation meeting with these department heads and see where we're at on that. 01:39:39.282 --> 01:39:45.360 - Because I think that's one probably outcome everybody wants. I mean, there's probably universal. The 01:39:45.360 --> 01:39:51.498 - one thing I also want to then go to that you just talked about was on the economic development front, 01:39:51.498 --> 01:39:54.206 - where we just don't want more for more sake. 01:39:54.306 --> 01:40:01.357 - I mean, as we look at SB1 and look at where the revenue is going to come to pay for these outcomes that 01:40:01.357 --> 01:40:08.136 - we want, it's going to come from local lit. What is local lit going to take working people here? So 01:40:08.136 --> 01:40:15.254 - what growth we want is specifically working-age people here in the community living here. And that would 01:40:15.254 --> 01:40:20.542 - go against certain other residents who maybe aren't full-time residents here. 01:40:21.698 --> 01:40:28.252 - Unless on ones that are not working So there those are things that we have to look at because as we 01:40:28.252 --> 01:40:34.937 - look at the economies of scale that piece of pie We need to have to grow that with income where we're 01:40:34.937 --> 01:40:41.950 - not burdening Too few too few residents and not getting the outcomes we want There's anything else on here 01:40:42.178 --> 01:40:47.388 - And I just think one thing to work on, if you're not this round, this is the year to sort of look at, 01:40:47.388 --> 01:40:52.598 - if you're not getting the data you want, is start looking at some dashboard ideas on getting that for 01:40:52.598 --> 01:40:57.707 - the future. So you'll really have great indicators. I'll go, what are we missing here? What data do 01:40:57.707 --> 01:41:03.070 - we not have on some of these outcomes that we want? You're supposed to make the best decisions possible. 01:41:03.070 --> 01:41:08.280 - And if you don't have certain data, this is the time to start looking at how we're going to get that. 01:41:08.280 --> 01:41:11.294 - All right. Thank you for your time tonight. Appreciate it. 01:41:12.866 --> 01:41:18.601 - Thank you. There is a sign-in sheet there right now. If you could sign in, that would be great. Did 01:41:18.601 --> 01:41:24.509 - anybody raise a hand on Zoom? Wonderful. Let's go ahead to Zoom next. And if somebody else in chambers 01:41:24.509 --> 01:41:30.473 - wants to make a comment, you can come on up. Whenever you're unmuted on Zoom, go ahead, state your name 01:41:30.473 --> 01:41:36.782 - for the record, and then you'll have up to three minutes. My name is Kevin Keough. I'm a longtime accountant, 01:41:36.782 --> 01:41:40.510 - auditing professional, and born and raised Bloomington resident. 01:41:41.026 --> 01:41:48.073 - I appreciate the city's move towards outcome-based budgeting because it aligns with professional best 01:41:48.073 --> 01:41:55.120 - practices for accountability and financial stewardship. My goal tonight is simple, to help strengthen 01:41:55.120 --> 01:42:02.097 - transparency and ensure that this process delivers real value to the public. I want to highlight two 01:42:02.097 --> 01:42:09.490 - fundamentals that are absolutely critical to the success of outcome-based budgeting. A clear understanding 01:42:09.490 --> 01:42:10.526 - of fixed costs 01:42:10.754 --> 01:42:18.287 - and the use of meaningful key performance indicators. Outcome-based budgeting only works if the city 01:42:18.287 --> 01:42:26.268 - has a precise understanding of which costs are locked in. These are fixed costs that the city is obligated 01:42:26.268 --> 01:42:34.846 - to pay, such as debt services, contractual obligations, baseline personnel costs. But there's also flexible costs. 01:42:35.138 --> 01:42:42.132 - These are the variable cost or semi-variable cost, and these costs can be adjusted. They can be trimmed. 01:42:42.132 --> 01:42:49.326 - They can be expanded depending on strategic needs. Right now, the city is preparing to prioritize outcomes, 01:42:49.326 --> 01:42:56.186 - housing, safety, economic development, transportation, health, and tonight, the environmental category 01:42:56.186 --> 01:43:01.182 - is that. But unless we know the true cost structure of the city operation, 01:43:01.698 --> 01:43:09.526 - we risk prioritizing outcomes that cannot be financially supported. As fiscal pressures grow, 01:43:09.526 --> 01:43:18.437 - and they will, especially with SEA-1, reducing our revenues, Bloomington must be able to act with agility, 01:43:18.437 --> 01:43:27.181 - including making difficult decisions when necessary. That requires distinction between core, unavoidable 01:43:27.181 --> 01:43:31.678 - costs and areas where efficiencies can be introduced. 01:43:32.002 --> 01:43:40.136 - Without clarity, prioritization becomes symbolic rather than strategic. Moving on, the key performance 01:43:40.136 --> 01:43:48.270 - indicators. The outcomes-based budgeting only works if outcomes are measurable. The comprehensive plan 01:43:48.270 --> 01:43:56.167 - and the climate action plan, they already have excellent indicators. These are exactly the kinds of 01:43:56.167 --> 01:43:59.326 - performance measures that should anchor 01:43:59.586 --> 01:44:07.816 - this new budgeting process. But to be efficient and effective, KPIs must be few in number, not dozens, 01:44:07.816 --> 01:44:15.806 - but few in number, directly tied to these outcomes, regularly reported to the public, and also used 01:44:15.806 --> 01:44:23.955 - to make budget decisions. If the city sets priorities today without simultaneously establishing these 01:44:23.955 --> 01:44:28.190 - key performance indicators, real measure of progress 01:44:28.770 --> 01:44:35.743 - The process becomes aspirational instead of actionable. I want to encourage the council to require that 01:44:35.743 --> 01:44:43.051 - every prioritized outcomes be paired with a very small set of measurable indicators before funding decisions 01:44:43.051 --> 01:44:49.889 - are made. I commend the council for moving in this direction. Thank you, Mr. Q. I'm out of time. Yep, 01:44:49.889 --> 01:44:51.230 - you're out of time. 01:44:51.330 --> 01:44:58.010 - What are we trying to achieve? How much does it truly cost? And are we making progress to the goal? 01:44:58.010 --> 01:45:04.756 - Those are the three top items. Thank you. Thank you so much. Has anybody else raised a hand on Zoom? 01:45:04.756 --> 01:45:11.502 - Okay, and nobody else came forward from chambers. So I think that we'll close public comment period. 01:45:11.502 --> 01:45:18.315 - Thank you to those who commented. And for our last 15 minutes, because we usually try to end these at 01:45:18.315 --> 01:45:21.054 - 830. Council members, let's go ahead and 01:45:21.378 --> 01:45:31.031 - notate our top three outcomes from what we have. And I do wanna make clear for Mr. Keough that we're 01:45:31.031 --> 01:45:40.589 - not actually setting priorities today. There's just not time for that, but that this is kind of the 01:45:40.589 --> 01:45:51.294 - first discussion of many for 2027. So give everybody a few minutes to write down and wander around and do that. 01:45:53.698 --> 01:46:00.788 - Could you clarify again what we're doing? We're doing the activity that you wanted us to do in the beginning 01:46:00.788 --> 01:46:07.553 - with writing the top three things down but we're only looking at the the three Outcome lists that we've 01:46:07.553 --> 01:46:14.123 - no on your post-it note Write down your top three. Yep put your initials So so and and so we need to 01:46:14.123 --> 01:46:20.628 - see where the housing and homelessness sheet is. Oh, okay It's kind of we'll just move one of those 01:46:20.628 --> 01:46:23.230 - to another place. So go ahead and put a 01:46:23.618 --> 01:46:30.569 - your post-it notes. So for example, under housing and homelessness, if you want to rank your top priority 01:46:30.569 --> 01:46:37.390 - as A, your second as B, and your third as C, then that's what you do. Put your initials on it and stick 01:46:37.390 --> 01:46:44.341 - it on the board. So you should have three post-it notes. And on each post-it note, there are three items. 01:46:44.341 --> 01:46:51.358 - Three post-it notes and three items. What about the ones that are here listed on the computer? Wait, what? 01:46:51.522 --> 01:46:59.221 - One item proposed it three priorities total across all categories Well, no, that's why I was figuring 01:46:59.221 --> 01:47:06.921 - you were gonna we have to write some things on post-it notes So I was I was going to suggest we Write 01:47:06.921 --> 01:47:14.620 - what our priority our top priority is put a number one by it put our initials by it and then stick it 01:47:14.620 --> 01:47:20.734 - on the relevant board Okay, so we should have three post-it notes per sheet. Yes 01:47:21.058 --> 01:47:27.259 - So we should have nine post-it notes. Okay, but we do have to write what our priority is on the post-it 01:47:27.259 --> 01:47:33.460 - note because some of our priorities are on the computer and some of them are on the big piece of paper. 01:47:33.460 --> 01:47:39.780 - I'm sorry, Councilmember Flaherty. Councilmember Piedmont-Smith, we're doing nine post-it notes or three? 01:47:39.780 --> 01:47:45.743 - Three for each area. Two for each board. Or if you can only think of two, that's fine. Two or three 01:47:45.743 --> 01:47:50.334 - for each board, please. Okay, I'm going to struggle with the combined hybrid 01:47:51.234 --> 01:48:11.346 - We're all doing the best we can So we've moved one to the wall, oh yes, please note economic development 01:48:11.346 --> 01:48:19.582 - is all the way over there and They're very 01:48:22.466 --> 01:48:23.294 - really took a toll. 01:49:15.618 --> 01:49:24.222 - on one sticky note. 01:50:27.042 --> 01:50:54.398 - That's what I like to do. Let me clarify. Exactly. 01:50:57.570 --> 01:51:07.358 - Can I ask to what goal is that referring? Diversity one? Yes. 01:51:49.666 --> 01:51:56.254 - Don't forget what's on the art. Economic development has so many on the computer. 01:52:59.426 --> 01:53:21.477 - Did you get married? Hey, congrats. Congrats. You should have done it at a council meeting. I'd really 01:53:21.477 --> 01:53:28.542 - like to walk out of here at 830. 01:53:31.298 --> 01:53:42.853 - Yeah, you should report. You need to report about this. Yeah, we need to get that on the agenda. Sorry, 01:53:42.853 --> 01:53:54.185 - sorry. Sorry, sorry. Do you want to see this one about income inequality, OK? Yeah, that's all right. 01:53:54.185 --> 01:53:59.518 - That's good. It's a canal of development. Yeah. 01:53:59.874 --> 01:54:26.718 - What about this? What is true? 01:54:29.890 --> 01:54:36.318 - All right, well that was fun. 01:55:00.066 --> 01:55:07.731 - Gosh, Isaac, I'm seeing yours. I'm going 1A. Who's categorizing in A, B, and C? I was like, oh, wait, 01:55:07.731 --> 01:55:15.397 - no, that's not me. Sorry. I totally realized that halfway through and only caught some of them. Like, 01:55:15.397 --> 01:55:23.588 - exactly. The one over there, right? Where is it? Where is it? I'm doing it right now. Yeah, it's ridiculous. 01:55:23.588 --> 01:55:27.646 - This is ridiculous. I didn't even put three on there. 01:55:30.210 --> 01:55:36.190 - Just like, I saw it over there too, and I was like, what, hey? I was like, who's doing that? 01:56:08.546 --> 01:56:12.734 - I saw that too. 01:56:57.122 --> 01:57:04.569 - It's everybody finished with our with our assignment for the evening Can't councilmember Zulek 01:57:04.569 --> 01:57:12.486 - and councilmember rough If we play our cards right we can we can socialize in just a moment I have a 01:57:12.486 --> 01:57:20.325 - feeling that It would have been great to go through all of our number ones twos and threes but that 01:57:20.325 --> 01:57:25.342 - we just do not have the capacity this evening to do that and so 01:57:25.986 --> 01:57:35.877 - my thought would be that we need to repeat this maybe two or three or six or seven more times next year. 01:57:35.877 --> 01:57:45.579 - So I had to slip that in for my kids as well. So saying that, does anybody at this point have any last 01:57:45.579 --> 01:57:54.622 - comments? I think that the next step should be that somebody fiscal committee wise will need to 01:57:55.650 --> 01:58:04.137 - record all of these responses from us as council members and then use that as a jumping off point for 01:58:04.137 --> 01:58:12.541 - the next discussion about this. And I guess I would be open as a fiscal committee member, I would be 01:58:12.541 --> 01:58:20.862 - open. People saying right now, would you rather have part two be talking about what we've done here 01:58:20.862 --> 01:58:25.022 - or part two being like doing what we did here for 01:58:25.154 --> 01:58:33.251 - public safety transportation and mobility community health and vitality and Environment because we have 01:58:33.251 --> 01:58:41.347 - to also go through all of those outcomes In the same way that we just did so Councilmember Rallo. Yeah. 01:58:41.347 --> 01:58:49.211 - Well, I have some concluding comments but specific to that I Would like to see where this shakes out 01:58:49.211 --> 01:58:53.726 - Because that would give me some Perspective on evaluating 01:58:53.826 --> 01:59:01.259 - the other topics coming forward. Because this is a learning process for me. I find out what priorities 01:59:01.259 --> 01:59:08.692 - my colleagues have. And it's good to have this discussion because my mind is open. It changes. I mean, 01:59:08.692 --> 01:59:15.981 - I found some of the things that were said tonight very compelling. So it's a learning process to me. 01:59:15.981 --> 01:59:23.486 - So I'd like to actually go through next time and just evaluate where we're at with that. OK. All right. 01:59:23.682 --> 01:59:29.306 - Everybody good with that Great. We'll kind of take that then and go with it. Does anybody else want 01:59:29.306 --> 01:59:35.154 - any closing comments councilmember Flaherty? Yes good with that as the next step also just want to like 01:59:35.154 --> 01:59:40.890 - express and some caution in like Doing side-by-side comparisons of comprehensive plan goals that went 01:59:40.890 --> 01:59:46.795 - through extensive community informed vetting processes legislative processes with like this is important 01:59:46.795 --> 01:59:51.294 - in like this meeting right which is like not to say it's not important but like 01:59:52.418 --> 01:59:57.347 - I don't want us to lose sight of the fact that, yes, to Mr. MG's point, we need to make incremental 01:59:57.347 --> 02:00:02.375 - progress. If we are going to adopt a framework where it's like, hey, actually, these plans need to be 02:00:02.375 --> 02:00:07.551 - updated to speak a common language around a limited set of KPIs that are useful to us to achieving their 02:00:07.551 --> 02:00:12.677 - outcomes, and we need a public safety plan and something else plan that does that too, if we make those 02:00:12.677 --> 02:00:17.606 - types of decisions, we're not going to have those plans in hand this year for the 2027 budget. So I 02:00:17.606 --> 02:00:20.958 - think it'd be helpful also to have a structural conversation about, 02:00:21.346 --> 02:00:26.672 - Can we get our alignment eventually around some of those things, also from the mayor's administration, 02:00:26.672 --> 02:00:32.100 - obviously? And then what does the kind of like bridge process look like? Obviously, you all were engaged 02:00:32.100 --> 02:00:37.271 - in that this year or two, on like a bridge process. So I think that's just important to continue to 02:00:37.271 --> 02:00:42.700 - keep in mind as we grapple with this. Yeah, I second that. I also kind of went through and at some point 02:00:42.700 --> 02:00:46.526 - realized, oh yeah, we're supposed to be thinking about 2027 specifically. 02:00:46.882 --> 02:00:53.374 - that was a little missing maybe from our conversation. Councilmember, sorry. Just also seconding what 02:00:53.374 --> 02:00:59.993 - Councilmember Flaherty said and taking a little further just a thought that occurred to me through this 02:00:59.993 --> 02:01:06.357 - process is that in agreement of, yeah, this has helped us start to realize areas where we need more 02:01:06.357 --> 02:01:10.558 - plans, 100% also concur that some of our plans have gone through. 02:01:11.874 --> 02:01:19.368 - comprehensive, I should think of a better word, but, you know, like full processes. One of the things 02:01:19.368 --> 02:01:27.228 - that I have a lot of hope for here is that we get to take steps in the direction of creating plans through 02:01:27.228 --> 02:01:34.575 - this budget process because it requires at least a twofold with ideally a lot of public engagement. 02:01:34.575 --> 02:01:36.926 - So, you know, we sort of get to 02:01:37.090 --> 02:01:44.116 - in some type of agile way, go through some of that planning that can start building some of those building 02:01:44.116 --> 02:01:50.814 - blocks to sort of more formalized plans in these areas where we're missing. And so with that said, to 02:01:50.814 --> 02:01:57.381 - the question on the table of what do we want to do next time, I'm totally for us continuing to talk 02:01:57.381 --> 02:02:03.422 - as we have. But I would just say, as we've said multiple times, I'm hopeful that we do this 02:02:03.522 --> 02:02:08.781 - process of talking through the budget and our priorities and the things that we would like to see in 02:02:08.781 --> 02:02:14.091 - the shape like continually not in some episodic fashion that we sort of do it and then we say okay we 02:02:14.091 --> 02:02:19.298 - did it here this is what we came up with you know you guys do it the rest but that we you know keep 02:02:19.298 --> 02:02:24.504 - working through this for the rest of the year I'm really excited that we started this so early that 02:02:24.504 --> 02:02:29.086 - we'll get a lot of opportunities to continue other closing comments councilmember Rallo 02:02:30.306 --> 02:02:37.799 - I wanted to respond to public comment and I Totally agree with Kevin Keough that performance indicators 02:02:37.799 --> 02:02:45.148 - for every outcome is a very important thing to keep in mind It's not enough to just say this has been 02:02:45.148 --> 02:02:52.498 - addressed or you know, we've made an effort but really to determine to what extent The other thing is 02:02:52.498 --> 02:02:58.910 - I wanted to respond to mr. MG that with budget limitation limitations adding more people 02:02:59.202 --> 02:03:07.114 - to Bloomington to raise revenue via the lit is one way to operate. However, more people require more 02:03:07.114 --> 02:03:14.948 - services and require more infrastructure, and that should be recognized too. Another approach could 02:03:14.948 --> 02:03:22.861 - be to raise wages. That doesn't entail adding expenses with more people, but it raises more revenue. 02:03:22.861 --> 02:03:27.326 - So that's my comment. Thank you. Other closing comments? 02:03:28.610 --> 02:03:40.566 - Use the microphone so that then Sorry councilmember Flaherty's comments. It's sort of means that Where's 02:03:40.566 --> 02:03:51.953 - the one? Microphone communication with council and mayor is That's sort of got to become the number 02:03:51.953 --> 02:03:58.558 - one priority almost if we're gonna do That was my comment 02:03:58.946 --> 02:04:07.986 - He did All right coming back together any other closing comments Okay, my closing comment has to do 02:04:07.986 --> 02:04:17.026 - with council schedule Next Monday the 15th. There is a special session that was called by the mayor 02:04:17.026 --> 02:04:23.806 - regarding the Hopewell development it is at 4 p.m. And I actually meant to 02:04:23.906 --> 02:04:31.105 - Get on my calendar what's what room it's in but that is not on my calendar right now Can staff help 02:04:31.105 --> 02:04:38.520 - me out with what room that session is in on the 15th? Great. Thank you so much It is a special session 02:04:38.520 --> 02:04:46.079 - council meeting. Yes, the mayor called it According to code the mayor can call a special session There's 02:04:46.079 --> 02:04:49.534 - an email about it Yeah, you did maybe thank you 02:04:50.370 --> 02:04:56.387 - I think you may have responded to oh, maybe I responded. Oh, yes. Yes, there's too much of a time lag 02:04:56.387 --> 02:05:02.640 - in my I'm so glad that I mentioned it. Yes. Yes. Thank you That is scheduled at four o'clock and a quorum 02:05:02.640 --> 02:05:08.538 - of councilmembers did indicate that they could attend though Not everyone indicated that that was a 02:05:08.538 --> 02:05:14.791 - good day for them I don't think anybody indicated it was a bad day for them. Just not everybody responded 02:05:14.791 --> 02:05:20.336 - So hopefully that all works on your calendars 4 p.m Monday the 15th is it McCloskey or is it? 02:05:20.336 --> 02:05:28.030 - It is Allison and Allison conference room upstairs and that of course is open to the public. It is kind 02:05:28.030 --> 02:05:35.503 - of like a Hopewell related work session but the mayor has a plan for that. And then our last regular 02:05:35.503 --> 02:05:43.123 - session of the year is next Wednesday at 6.30 on the 17th. Can we manage the last bit of this meeting? 02:05:43.123 --> 02:05:47.710 - Councilmember Piedmont-Smith, do you have a note on schedule? 02:05:48.098 --> 02:05:55.950 - Yes, we have a committee on council processes meeting tomorrow evening at 6 p.m. In the Allison conference 02:05:55.950 --> 02:06:03.509 - room great. Thank you so much No, we don't All right barring other announcements about schedule. Thank 02:06:03.509 --> 02:06:06.078 - you very much and we are adjourned