WEBVTT

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- Good evening, welcome to tonight's deliberation session for May 13th. Clerk, would you mind please calling

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- the roll when you have a moment? Don't rush, don't trip. Council Member Flaherty? Here. Stasberg? Here.

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- Piedmont-Smith? Here. Zulek is absent. Asari? Absent. Okay. Daly? Here.

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- Ruff here Rosenberger here. Thank you. Oh awesome. Thank you very much. Forgot that I was the one who

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- had started it. OK. So we are here tonight for a special deliberation session and it was organized by

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- council member Flaherty. So I'm just going to turn the whole evening on over to council member Flaherty

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- to guide us through our discussion for tonight. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. And I can summarize the

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- agenda to start. So.

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- We have a focus topic for the evening which is identifying opportunities to improve pedestrian safety

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- and accessibility following snow events and a structure to kind of guide that conversation. Go starting

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- with a review of city goals and policies that are relevant moving to discussion of constituent feedback

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- and an invitation for public comment about people's personal experiences at that time. Then a discussion

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- of departmental feedback and then some discussion of

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- essentially potential policy or potential interventions, some framing for that as well as workshopping

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- specific issues. Finally, prioritization of next steps from here from both the process and substance

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- perspective and public comment and then adjournment. And I will kind of, I guess, moderate and facilitate

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- the conversation is my plan. Just a few other preliminary things. Maybe, first of all,

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- Let the other folks joining us tonight introduce themselves as we have three other invited members of

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- for the conversation So we could go ahead and do that I am the director of Parks and Recreation for

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- the city Casey Garino member of the Council for Community Accessibility Steve Olin the chair of the

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- Transportation Commission and So that's who we have with us this evening

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- My apologies for some late breaking packet addendums yesterday and then today. I had gotten some questions

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- to relevant department heads, including Director Street and Hand Public Works and planning a couple

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- of weeks ago, but between PTO schedules and a few other things, we were still getting answers incoming,

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- so sorry for the late breaking information there.

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- Folks from all those departments were invited to attend, but in the context of that, a few weeks ago,

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- the mayor expressed some concern about staff time having been spent at council meetings in the context

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- of the Hopewell PUD and indicated folks probably would not be attending. So in any case, we welcome

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- Director Street with us and understand that others have been at a lot of evening meetings and aren't

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- here tonight.

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- With that, maybe one other, well two other things. One, are folks okay using, do we want to use first

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- names tonight? Are folks okay, like comfortable with that in particular, given that it's not just council?

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- Hearing no objections, okay great, we can do that. And then second, I just wanted to kind of like outline

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- my high level purpose outcome process as we kick off. So the purpose is really just to deepen our own

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- understanding of the issues with pedestrian safety and accessibility.

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- in the context of snow removal, what's going well, where are we most challenged, are there opportunities

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- for improvement. The outcomes would be to try to actually improve efficacy of snow removal through targeted

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- policy, budgetary, operational changes. And the process is through this discussion and then collaboration

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- with staff to come probably. So we can talk about that kind of in the closing sections of the meeting,

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- what we envision as next steps, who would like to take lead, that kind of thing.

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- I remain committed to working on this going forward, but if others want to join on that, both from the

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- council and otherwise, we can talk about it. So, any questions before we kind of move into the heart

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- of the agenda? The body of it? Okay, great. So, I'd like to just start with kind of going over high-level

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- city goals and policies. The packet, the initial packet that came out had a relevant section of Bloomington

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- Municipal Code,

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- And then also I did a review of our kind of guiding documents from a planning perspective. Mainly it's

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- the comprehensive plan that has relevant guidance here in the transportation chapter. Most of those

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- goals mention improving sustainability and access. So goal 6.2 with public transit for instance talks

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- about improving and expanding an accessible system. Goal 6.3 improving the bicycle and pedestrian network

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- talks about

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- improving and expanding an accessible, safe, and efficient network for pedestrians. We have a goal around

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- prioritizing non-automotive modes in the transportation network. And so kind of those are the overall

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- themes in the comprehensive plan. The transportation plan does not mention, or only mentions twice,

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- snow and it's not in this context, so not a relevant piece of the transportation plan. And then Safeties

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- for All action plan similarly does not mention snow or snow removal.

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- The final policy document I'd like to mention is actually the draft 2026 ADA transition plan developed

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- by CCA and Michael Shermas, staff support for CCA, presented to the Transportation Commission just last

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- month. This topic wasn't really covered in that plan either, though it was acknowledged there's a challenge.

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- There is a relevant bit of that plan though, which is about the Snow Buddies program that has been running

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- I think for a couple of years now, where residents who would struggle to clear

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- snow from their own sidewalks can get connected with volunteers who would help to clear that snow, and

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- that there are other volunteers to address other issues like curb ramp snow clearance. Those are the

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- policy documents. Before we move on to city code and that, any questions just about, again, the context

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- where we are now with respect to guiding policy, things I missed? All good? Okay, sorry, we're just

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- in level setting mode a little bit.

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- So second is the Bloomington Municipal Code, Chapter 6, Section 7, snow and ice removal, which is really

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- pretty brief. There's kind of two sections. One is about the duty of the abutting property owner. So

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- property owners are responsible for removing all snow and ice from the sidewalk to allow safe and reasonable

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- travel. And the responsibility is to clear that within 24 hours after the snow or ice has stopped accumulating.

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- There is generally a requirement for 36 inches of clearance and 54 inches in the downtown area And then

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- the second part is about enforcement which is Predominantly it's in hand the housing neighborhood development

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- department leads enforcement. It is I think predominantly done through Kind of like a complaint based

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- or reactive enforcement protocol and defines our

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- They begin at $50 for repeated infractions over time. They can escalate to 100 and then 150 as a maximum.

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- And they reset after a 12-month period running August 1 to July 31. So if you're a repeat offender year

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- after year, you're not penalized for that. You're starting fresh each year. I won't get into some of

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- the operational details on that because that was covered in the hand director's comments in response

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- to questions.

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- That's the state of the policy. So any questions about that, about what's in code, what the requirements

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- are, whose responsibility is what. This applies to the city government as well. So city departments

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- and entities are responsible for snow clearance for the properties that we own, for instance. Same with

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- other governmental units, but as well.

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- Good question Do you happen to know I do not happen to know that's a that's a good question Do you happen

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- to know Steve, I see it we do not have jurisdiction over are you? They are a separate state entity.

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- They've made it very clear the city has the right of with the 10th Street, for example at Eagleson the

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- city has Responsibility for the right of way right up to the curb, but IU controls the curb and then

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- some so they are entirely responsible

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- sidewalks within the jurisdiction that they call campus not every building they own is on campus, but

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- We've never had jurisdiction over them. We can ask them nicely, but I mean I'll note that for also for

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- just confirming and clarification with with staff If you news to me, let's put it that way What's interesting

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- is that a lot of the streets that run through campus our city streets they are

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- But here, we're not talking about city responsibility for the sidewalks on the streets. Well, again,

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- in this case, at that corner, for example, I've seen the actual property lines. IU controls right up

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- to the curb. And so the sidewalk is not in our jurisdiction. It varies, because I'm aware of counter

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- examples. It's not everywhere. But that's common. Yes. OK, thank you. Other questions, comments about?

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- City code and what's actually required of folks? If anybody knows of other cities if any of any cities

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- where the city takes responsibility for some are all of sidewalks Very expensive for a city to do that,

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- but I wonder if there are any examples out there There are some Maybe we get into that though in the

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- kind of workshopping issues and like the discussion

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- Like like pork shopping solutions kind of thing Yes, okay Next then we can move into discussion

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- of constituent feedback and so here We could maybe actually just start with council members sharing

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- if you have received feedback from constituents this year or over your years of service

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- What type of feedback that has been? Do folks have ideas? What challenges are they experiencing? So

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- I wanted an opportunity for council members to share feedback from constituents. I think, Steve, that

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- could also apply to you as a former council member and a transportation commission member. Casey, same

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- thing with respect to any complaints the CCA might receive or items for discussion that you have about

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- kind of a resident experience around safety and accessibility.

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- So maybe we start there, and then I want to talk a little bit about the quite extensive data we have

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- from you reports that also help us understand this, and then also have an opportunity for public comment

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- specific to this, like what issues people are experiencing themselves. So yeah, Dave. Somebody probably

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- will bring this up inevitably, but I get complaints quite often about, especially where people have

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- monolithic sidewalks

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- That is, you know, they meet the street at the curb so there's no grass plot. That when a plow comes

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- by, it pushes the snow back on the sidewalk where they've already, you know, so it's a constant struggle.

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- And they feel defeated by the city coming by, especially during large snow events. And I know just from

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- experience in some states, some municipalities, they have different types of equipment where

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- It's more like a snowblower type of equipment where they actually lift the snow and put it into a truck

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- side. That's a lot of expense. But just to have that in mind when we replace equipment, it might be

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- a good direction to go in just to alleviate, I think, this chronic problem. Because it's a shame if

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- you get it

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- You've made the effort, and yet you get cited. Now, I don't know if that's the case. In fact, I don't

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- even know the citation rate if we actually enforce this. This is a question I've gotten. People are

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- curious, too. To what extent? I'm having to walk in the street. I don't have a clear sidewalk. Are people

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- actually getting cited for not doing their obligation of clearing the sidewalk?

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- Those are two things obviously but just wanted to put it out there those things. Thank you.

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- Helping sure. So I guess I'll I'll some things the constituents have said to me this year are I've got some

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- Some suggestions you can say about what we can do. They questioned whether we should increase fines

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- because only having a fine of $50 so that even if somebody gets fined, they wouldn't necessarily get

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- it a second time. And so then that's $50, and especially a commercial outfit that's cheaper to pay the

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- fine than it is to hire somebody to actually do the work.

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- That's like absolutely facts. It's definitely cheaper to pay the fine than to hire somebody to do the

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- work and So I they found that very problematic and similarly problematic The process of giving a warning

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- first before the fine and how that resets every year and especially for commercial frequent offenders that

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- the suggestion that maybe it shouldn't reset every year because it is frequently the same people over

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- and over and over, or the same companies over and over and over, who never deal with their snow. And

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- personally, I also see that happening. And it was especially, I think that there are some places that

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- have done a lot better this last year. I know the administration and the departments have been working hard

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- Advertising making sure people are aware of their responsibility. And so I've definitely seen

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- some improvements but it's still kind of like scattershot in terms of I mean If if everybody has done

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- their sidewalk except for one person then it still ends up being a blockage being a problem and Yeah

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- I would say in general one of my constituents Complaints about just how dangerous it dangerous it is

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- and way more dangerous than Walking on a sidewalk regularly which can also be a little dangerous Just

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- the idea that it pushes pedestrians into the streets and that's very scary because the streets are also

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- normally smaller width lanes and then the Maybe it's just the curb ramp is what it's called. But I

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- I don't know like I don't necessarily think residents are aware that that might be their Piece of the

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- sidewalk to cover so even if or to plow shovel so even if they clear it to the plows are a problem on

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- regular streets at all intersections and those tend to stick around way longer even after a sidewalk

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- is cleared and then I would say I have a neighbor that plows a pedestrian area that is

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- Abuts a private lot that gets plowed and that private lot Then puts all of it shovels plows all of its

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- snow into our pedestrian Connection to the beeline. So there's a problem with like where private or

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- commercial properties are putting their snow that has Those is an obstacle for pedestrians. Oh I'm sorry

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- Casey. Yeah, you're right

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- I just wanted to say first that's called a curb cut But one piece of feedback that I've gotten from

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- other CCA members I'm not able to drive but many of them do and they drive accessible vehicles and one

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- of the difficulties especially in city lots is that the city will clear the lot and they put the snow

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- in the handicap parking because it's at the back and

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- Usually but the problem is that in these lots I believe under the ADA It is that for every 12 regular

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- spots you have 180 a spot and or either 180 a spot or one van spot. I have to look that up but essentially

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- there's way more regular spots yet somehow the snow always ends up in the accessible ones and those

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- are already extremely limited and

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- So I feel like we need to come up with a different solution for that. And also on the street when because

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- they often push the snow into the parking that the accessible parking is prioritized to be cleared before

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- the regular parking because again there's a lot less of it. But that's one of the comments that I've

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- received. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Steve it does seem like.

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- There's, I mean, we've also seen this issue with frequent critic of public works when a new building

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- is being built and they don't make room for a sidewalk or they let the construction take up the sidewalk.

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- It seems like the priority is the accessibility of snowplows rather than the accessibility of everybody

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- else. In other words, we'll only see the snowplow that is

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- Easiest for the snowplow to push and whatever snowplow we have that's that's how the the roads get cleared

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- and certainly there's no thought about Prioritizing sidewalks at the same level as as streets So, I

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- mean I think who was it who said earlier? Maybe it was Dave who said But when we've replaced equipment

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- we should be thinking about a diff a wider variety of tools than just The big old truck that we can

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- move the most snow with

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- Because they're moving. They don't prioritize handicapped spaces. They should be covering up the non-disabled

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- spaces in a parking lot. So even there, their thoughts are what's easiest for my truck to do. Other?

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- Yeah, please. I just wanted to add, I forgot to mention bus stops. Because one of the other things was

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- if somebody usually bicycles or walks,

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- After a snowy event, especially a major one often than looking for a different transportation solution

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- but the bus stops also become completely inaccessible and I'm not sure that there's any solution for

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- that at all. That's been tried I'm not sure that BT is is thinking about ways to like shovel out their

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- their bus stops or in terms of

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- I'm like I'm not sure who who would who would be responsible for that If if the stop say is in front

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- of an apartment complex, you know the apartment complex maybe they're supposed to do the sidewalk but

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- then the bus stop is here and then there's the little like little sidewalk that that Goes to it goes

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- to the street for you know people to actually get on the bus So I don't know who is responsible for

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- that technically and

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- But I don't think anybody's doing Here's one more thing that I know that people have a question about

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- which is when are they obligated to start shoveling this is within 24 hours of the last snowfall, but

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- because The snow can keep falling it can be unpredictable and there's no clear signal the city for example

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- does trick-or-treat hours they announce when it's safe to go out maybe if there was some

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- Signal I mean we we know that the the plow drives are out there. They have a protocol for tackling the

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- snow maybe You know the city could could announce some kind of a Time by which you're supposed to like

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- based on the weather make it official so that people are more likely to to start shoveling Thank you

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- any other thoughts from like things

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- that we've all heard from constituents our constituency about challenges anything from the parks Casey

00:22:04.584 --> 00:22:11.745
- please go ahead. I wanted to ask who is responsible for the sidewalks that branch off of the beeline

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- for example at college and third and Madison at third because often these branch shops are not touched

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- and there are businesses along there. But I know at Madison and third the business that's there is abandoned.

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- And when I contacted the realtor for the building he said oh I contacted the owner but the owner didn't

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- really care. And these are these pathways are how people pedestrians and people with disabilities get

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- up to the line. So who is responsible for those.

00:22:49.474 --> 00:22:56.838
- Good question. The adjacent property owner, typically, so third in college, there's a building owned

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- by the city redevelopment commission and by the capital improvement board or county, maybe county government

00:23:04.785 --> 00:23:12.222
- convention center. Yeah, exactly. And so those are both public entities at that particular place. But

00:23:12.222 --> 00:23:17.982
- sometimes, just related, I've also observed and had constituents report to me.

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- Sometimes there seems to be a kind of figuratively last mile but in reality like last 10 feet kind of

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- gap where like This happened at first Street in the beeline this year and maybe some other beeline crossings

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- as well. We're like The property owner on I think you know Whoever was doing it on first both east and

00:23:37.179 --> 00:23:43.512
- west of the beeline on the south side of the street did like those sidewalks were cleared but they stopped

00:23:43.512 --> 00:23:47.774
- about five or ten feet short of the beeline the beeline was cleared and

00:23:48.098 --> 00:23:55.508
- But then there's just this gap people are trudging through. So that's kind of related to something that

00:23:55.508 --> 00:24:02.704
- Kate brought up, too, about people not knowing quite where their responsibility ends, quote unquote.

00:24:02.704 --> 00:24:10.043
- And even, I mean, that's a question maybe that you could opine on, Tim, and any other feedback you all

00:24:10.043 --> 00:24:17.310
- have heard. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, the last year, well, both of the last years we've had very extreme

00:24:17.442 --> 00:24:23.642
- winter weather for us in terms of would we have 15 inches in a couple days this past year, I think,

00:24:23.642 --> 00:24:29.843
- and subsequent storms and about the same the year before. So it's very hard to know what to prepare

00:24:29.843 --> 00:24:36.353
- for in Indiana. Are we going to get a year where we have two inches of light slush for the whole winter,

00:24:36.353 --> 00:24:42.678
- or are we going to get what we've had the last two years where not only does it snow heavily, but the

00:24:42.678 --> 00:24:43.422
- temp drops?

00:24:43.714 --> 00:24:50.596
- And if removal isn't done quickly, that stuff hardens into something very difficult to remove, which

00:24:50.596 --> 00:24:57.683
- I think has been the situation both of the last years. I will try to focus mostly on parks, but I might

00:24:57.683 --> 00:25:04.633
- have conversations about all of this as well with Director Wason and others as we talk about this and

00:25:04.633 --> 00:25:08.926
- strategy in the winter. Obviously, the U reports start flying.

00:25:09.154 --> 00:25:16.825
- As soon as the snow starts flying practically and as you mentioned I know hand is very complaint driven

00:25:16.825 --> 00:25:24.202
- and how they can respond and figuring out that clock as Steve said I think is something that's kind

00:25:24.202 --> 00:25:31.873
- of tricky to say exactly when did it stop snowing. We positive feedback that we received from residents

00:25:31.873 --> 00:25:39.102
- is about you know getting trails and we prioritize the main trails first facility access and then

00:25:39.458 --> 00:25:45.174
- Secondary trails like going around Brian Park things like that The nice thing about plowing those trails

00:25:45.174 --> 00:25:50.671
- is we're plowing those with specialty smaller equipment and you're not Generally competing with what

00:25:50.671 --> 00:25:56.441
- is happening on the road, you know, so the road gets plowed it pushes it up onto the monolithic sidewalks

00:25:56.441 --> 00:26:01.885
- The beeline at least we can provide a really good transportation Avenue for a lot of people Without

00:26:01.885 --> 00:26:07.600
- competing with road snow coming back in and I think what may happen in a lot of those places that you're

00:26:07.600 --> 00:26:09.342
- talking about the last ten feet

00:26:10.050 --> 00:26:17.989
- Just the order of operations right like every time someone goes back through and does something It pushes

00:26:17.989 --> 00:26:25.704
- it opposite 90 degrees To where the path was before right? So it's kind of a constant that competition

00:26:25.704 --> 00:26:33.269
- but Ongoing saga of you know, maybe we clear the beeline and it's looking really good and then roads

00:26:33.269 --> 00:26:39.486
- get plowed again And then all of a sudden all of the road access curb cuts etc get

00:26:39.810 --> 00:26:45.063
- covered up with the layer of slush again, or it melts and refreezes across it. So it's just, I think

00:26:45.063 --> 00:26:50.679
- it'll be hard to find a perfect solution. I think looking for ways to do things better is really admirable,

00:26:50.679 --> 00:26:55.880
- and we can engage with that. But there's always going to be a little bit of battling with the order

00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.821
- of operations and how to get it just right with every storm being so unique and different too.

00:27:00.821 --> 00:27:06.126
- Thank you. And I'll also echo that positive feedback I've heard from constituents with the beeline in

00:27:06.126 --> 00:27:09.246
- particular and the prominence with which that gets cleared.

00:27:09.890 --> 00:27:18.041
- Dave I was just looking at the municipal code six point zero seven point zero one zero and it starts

00:27:18.041 --> 00:27:26.193
- by saying that it's the duty of every owner of any premises of a sidewalk to remove the snow but all

00:27:26.193 --> 00:27:34.587
- of the snow from the sidewalk and I just wondered is that something that I mean is there the discretion

00:27:34.587 --> 00:27:38.622
- of the enforcement person to you know I mean it's

00:27:38.754 --> 00:27:45.955
- pretty rare that you see all the snow removed from a sidewalk in its entirety, however important that

00:27:45.955 --> 00:27:53.297
- would be for accessibility. I mean, could you comment on that? Is this something that we need to refine

00:27:53.297 --> 00:28:00.499
- in some way? I mean, on the one hand, I want it to be accessible for everybody. And you've got people

00:28:00.499 --> 00:28:06.782
- that need to pass each other, especially. And then you've got people with accessibility.

00:28:07.202 --> 00:28:13.028
- Issues and things like that and but yet is it practical? I mean, I don't know is it what what's your

00:28:13.028 --> 00:28:19.315
- experience too? I was thinking about that as we looked at the code to the you know It says I think generally

00:28:19.315 --> 00:28:25.371
- 36 inches is the width at which you should have it, right? But in the downtown, it's it's 54 and I don't

00:28:25.371 --> 00:28:31.254
- know if that's defined to being Was was that just curb cuts or 54 or was that everything was 54? It's

00:28:31.254 --> 00:28:36.734
- it's everything everything. Yeah the so I'm something to consider there too. Maybe how quickly

00:28:36.834 --> 00:28:42.777
- you know, do you get to that full 54? Because when you get that 11 to 15 inches, which is, again, I

00:28:42.777 --> 00:28:48.839
- don't expect that we're going to get that every year, but who knows with the way our weather patterns

00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:54.901
- go, you very quickly run out of places to physically put the snow. And that's why this past year they

00:28:54.901 --> 00:29:01.200
- had to come into the square and downtown and things like that and mobilize. I know CBU actually mobilized

00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:05.598
- equipment this past year to come and take and load snow and take it away.

00:29:05.986 --> 00:29:11.609
- Because unlike an East Coast city, we don't have a melter. They have those rolling dumpsters that you

00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:17.287
- can melt the snow in and stuff like that. So they used front loaders or something? They did. They used

00:29:17.287 --> 00:29:22.965
- front loaders in this past storm. But obviously, that took time to come in, because there was just too

00:29:22.965 --> 00:29:28.533
- much snow everywhere. And there's only limited places to put it. So that ended up being a mitigation

00:29:28.533 --> 00:29:30.462
- effort. But I know that took days.

00:29:31.138 --> 00:29:37.529
- of CBU being out there and helping out and loading that snow out. But it took time. OK, so we're getting

00:29:37.529 --> 00:29:43.069
- into some questions around kind of departmental operations and some of the feedback we got

00:29:43.069 --> 00:29:49.399
- there, particularly with enforcement, which we'll get to with a hand. So maybe it's a good time to move

00:29:49.399 --> 00:29:55.790
- beyond kind of our experience of constitutional feedback to two other items here. One I wanted to share,

00:29:55.790 --> 00:30:01.086
- which is really just the packet addendum that came out this evening for folks' review.

00:30:02.562 --> 00:30:09.154
- exported the 404 U reports in the category sidewalk snow removal for winter of this year and just ran

00:30:09.154 --> 00:30:15.811
- it through an AI assistant to analyze the data and report on trends. So that is in the packet. I think

00:30:15.811 --> 00:30:22.597
- it largely aligns with what we're hearing. I'm not gonna cover that at a high level or in detail rather,

00:30:22.597 --> 00:30:29.060
- but y'all can look at that. I think I did ask it to identify kind of opportunities and what's going

00:30:29.060 --> 00:30:31.710
- well and you know the positives in this.

00:30:31.906 --> 00:30:38.750
- And so it has some of that framing in terms of what we can leverage that's successful. But yeah, the

00:30:38.750 --> 00:30:45.661
- issues are the ones we've talked about. Transit access or bus stop access is a big one. Intersections

00:30:45.661 --> 00:30:52.437
- in particular has a challenge. And snow banks blocking access, uneven enforcement. And some of this

00:30:52.437 --> 00:30:57.790
- is, you know, this is residents reporting, so it's a kind of perception thing.

00:30:57.890 --> 00:31:06.963
- So concerns about lack of enforcement, uneven enforcement, complaints that have been made and still

00:31:06.963 --> 00:31:16.127
- sidewalks not being clear. So this kind of chronic non-compliance type of issue. Folks raising major

00:31:16.127 --> 00:31:22.206
- pedestrian corridors in areas around schools as particular issues.

00:31:24.130 --> 00:31:30.809
- So yeah, that's worth a browse if you hadn't already because it helps synthesize a pretty extensive

00:31:30.809 --> 00:31:37.087
- amount of user experience data that we have that might further help inform some opportunities

00:31:37.087 --> 00:31:43.833
- for improvements as well as what's going best. So the other thing I wanted to invite here is just if

00:31:43.833 --> 00:31:50.579
- we have any public comment either online or here in chambers about people's personal experience as a

00:31:50.579 --> 00:31:53.918
- pedestrian or in the pedestrian context with snow

00:31:54.178 --> 00:32:00.608
- Removal so that could be about your own responsibility to clear snow from a property. It could be about

00:32:00.608 --> 00:32:06.852
- You know your your Experience moving through the city as a pedestrian whatever else comes to mind So

00:32:06.852 --> 00:32:13.344
- with that we could open it up for a short public comment on this particular topic of people's experience

00:32:13.344 --> 00:32:19.589
- With pedestrian safety and accessibility snow removals. Do we have anybody in chambers that wants to

00:32:19.589 --> 00:32:23.422
- comment on that? Please go ahead and walk up to the table and

00:32:24.834 --> 00:32:31.736
- Oh, yeah, yeah the tables the tables great. I think we should probably have sign in so if you if you

00:32:31.736 --> 00:32:38.776
- want to just sign in on the podium there then Cap that at three minutes and I Timer introduce yourself

00:32:38.776 --> 00:32:45.746
- and then go ahead. Thank you My name is James Ford and you've already talked on about a bunch of this

00:32:45.746 --> 00:32:53.059
- things I wanted to hear about but there's a couple things you didn't mention the alleys in my neighborhood

00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:54.494
- are an issue because

00:32:55.682 --> 00:33:02.056
- They don't typically get plowed, but the sidewalks will stop at an alley, and the next sidewalk will

00:33:02.056 --> 00:33:08.430
- start at an alley. And if the people are being responsible by shoveling their own sidewalks, they're

00:33:08.430 --> 00:33:15.120
- not shoveling the alley, and the alley's not being plowed. So even if the street's plowed and the alley's

00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:21.810
- not, there's a big mound of snow right in the middle between the intersections. And typically, the alleys

00:33:21.810 --> 00:33:25.470
- are not ADA compliant anyway, and there's awful crumbling

00:33:26.466 --> 00:33:34.344
- Sidewalkers crumbling asphalt there. So I would like somebody to at least think about alleys as An issue

00:33:34.344 --> 00:33:41.923
- for people who are having who have difficulty Getting around There is one issue about I think it was

00:33:41.923 --> 00:33:49.426
- just touched on by mr. Rollo There's an old property owner in our neighborhood who has built in his

00:33:49.426 --> 00:33:56.254
- lease that says the tenants are responsible for the snow removal not sometimes tenants are

00:33:56.962 --> 00:34:03.144
- young people who've never shoveled snow before and tell them, oh, you need to shovel your snow and I'm

00:34:03.144 --> 00:34:09.386
- not going to even give you a shovel, then they don't get shoveled. And then who gets fined? Do you find

00:34:09.386 --> 00:34:15.567
- the student who didn't do their shoveling or do you find the owner? So I think that maybe there should

00:34:15.567 --> 00:34:21.749
- be some sort of prescription against forcing the tenants to be the shovelers and that it should be the

00:34:21.749 --> 00:34:24.030
- responsibility of the property owner.

00:34:24.162 --> 00:34:32.739
- We do have repeat offenders that rely on the fact that their first warning every year is not going to

00:34:32.739 --> 00:34:41.315
- be a fine and so then they just don't do it that first time and then there's the Repeat offenders who

00:34:41.315 --> 00:34:50.060
- will shovel a single shovel width down and it's hard to even with one person to To get down that little

00:34:50.060 --> 00:34:51.742
- path One side thing

00:34:51.938 --> 00:34:58.102
- I think it would be, I think HAND is awfully busy and it would be helpful for them if they would have

00:34:58.102 --> 00:35:04.265
- a person who was maybe a coordinator of volunteers for the neighborhoods so that if each neighborhood

00:35:04.265 --> 00:35:10.490
- had a volunteer who could report to the volunteer coordinator, say this is an issue, this is an issue,

00:35:10.490 --> 00:35:16.714
- rather than having to send HAND employees out to the neighborhoods, they could just be having somebody

00:35:16.714 --> 00:35:21.246
- in HAND office receiving information from a neighborhood volunteer saying,

00:35:21.346 --> 00:35:28.663
- We've got a big problem here, or we're OK here. Thank you. Thank you so much. Do we have anybody online

00:35:28.663 --> 00:35:35.911
- who would like to comment? No? All right, thank you. And here in chambers? I think we have the sign-in

00:35:35.911 --> 00:35:43.298
- sheet at the table now, so you can just go ahead and. Hello. You'll have three minutes once you're ready

00:35:43.298 --> 00:35:51.038
- to check. Yes, I'm Zach Ammerman. I wanted to comment basically anecdotally. I live in an apartment building.

00:35:51.330 --> 00:35:56.801
- This man is by one of the largest apartment owners in the city and they never came at all during the

00:35:56.801 --> 00:36:02.218
- major snowstorm I went out and shoveled like a a makeshift path just so I could get out with my dog

00:36:02.218 --> 00:36:07.635
- and went around it I personally shoveled all the way around two buildings that have four units each

00:36:07.635 --> 00:36:13.268
- Shoveled a passage to have a makeshift path for people and nobody ever came from the apartment building

00:36:13.268 --> 00:36:18.956
- despite his calling and asking and I understand they're busy because it's a crazy snowstorm, but I think

00:36:18.956 --> 00:36:20.798
- that is representative of a large

00:36:21.186 --> 00:36:26.494
- Number of things happening in the city of large apartment units are just eating the fine Because it's

00:36:26.494 --> 00:36:31.853
- a $50 fine for property. I think that's not sufficient It needs to be I would really like for you guys

00:36:31.853 --> 00:36:37.161
- if you can to look at enforcement Particularly for apartment buildings. It should be a fine per unit.

00:36:37.161 --> 00:36:42.469
- It should escalate faster for apartment buildings and HOA is for example, too And it should be higher

00:36:42.469 --> 00:36:47.672
- for apartment buildings That's the main thing. I really think we there's an easy way to do that. So

00:36:47.672 --> 00:36:50.430
- you're not hitting single-family residents that hard

00:36:50.754 --> 00:36:57.503
- But you're getting enforcement. I think that would have a lot of bang for its buck, basically. Yeah,

00:36:57.503 --> 00:37:04.519
- so that's all I have to say. Thanks. Thank you so much. Anyone else here in the chambers want to comment

00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:11.268
- on their experience with... We'll be back in a moment, Casey, for... Or if you want to... If there's

00:37:11.268 --> 00:37:17.950
- others, you can... Oh, yeah. Go ahead, please. If you'd like to sign in, you'll have three minutes.

00:37:28.034 --> 00:37:33.691
- Yeah, on the topic of snow. You know, I plowed snow for 37 years at the street department. And man,

00:37:33.691 --> 00:37:39.347
- it's a no-win situation. Every snow is different. Every year is different. And them guys do a great

00:37:39.347 --> 00:37:45.117
- job. And they really put their heart and they risk their lives when they get them trucks. Right. They

00:37:45.117 --> 00:37:50.774
- risk their lives. And I appreciate it. I've been retired for four years. And that last snow, we got

00:37:50.774 --> 00:37:56.430
- the one that had like 15 or 18 inches. That was incredible. I went out with my rubber boots, and it

00:37:56.430 --> 00:37:58.014
- was all the way to the top.

00:37:58.306 --> 00:38:05.838
- Them guys gotta be tough. Them guys are bad ass. Excuse my language. Right, okay. But they're really

00:38:05.838 --> 00:38:12.923
- good guys. But I wanna bring something else up too. I don't know if it's proper time or place,

00:38:12.923 --> 00:38:20.530
- but you know, a virtual tour. I was coming down Adams Street yesterday. Of course, you know, virtual.

00:38:20.530 --> 00:38:27.838
- And I turned on 6th Street. And boy, by the time I knew it, there was a police officer behind me.

00:38:29.378 --> 00:38:37.633
- come out of nowhere. I thought, OK, cool. And they come up the alley. They come up the alley and got

00:38:37.633 --> 00:38:46.133
- right behind me, lights flashing. I said, oh boy, OK, I kind of knew what I'd done. I kind of knew what

00:38:46.133 --> 00:38:54.307
- I'd done. And she was really cool. She was very understanding. Could have wrote me a couple of big,

00:38:54.307 --> 00:38:56.350
- fat tickets, but didn't.

00:38:58.594 --> 00:39:04.671
- Her officer asked a Bella. I asked him a while ago who she was. He told me about good, but I really

00:39:04.671 --> 00:39:10.808
- appreciated that them to kind of police officers we need that gives you a break because I don't want

00:39:10.808 --> 00:39:17.067
- to go to Don's insurance next week and say, Hey, how much are you? And he gets him tickets. I get them

00:39:17.067 --> 00:39:23.326
- tickets. My insurance will go sky high, but she didn't give me one. And I greatly appreciate that man.

00:39:26.338 --> 00:39:33.660
- But I really had plans on coming here tonight and complaining about a few things. But I'm going to wait

00:39:33.660 --> 00:39:40.701
- for another time, or it's time and place for everything. But I really want to compliment the police

00:39:40.701 --> 00:39:47.882
- for giving me a break, man. I appreciate it. And God bless America. OK, thank you. Thank you for your

00:39:47.882 --> 00:39:54.993
- comments and for your recognition of staff and their hard work. No problem. Any other public comment

00:39:54.993 --> 00:39:55.838
- online? OK.

00:39:56.002 --> 00:40:02.602
- I think that would conclude then this portion of kind of feedback. So the next part of the agenda is

00:40:02.602 --> 00:40:09.201
- really kind of talking about the feedback from departments. Tried to tailor some questions to Parks,

00:40:09.201 --> 00:40:16.062
- Public Works, Hand, and Planning that were unique to their purview and responsibility. Maybe we actually

00:40:16.062 --> 00:40:22.662
- just want to start with Parks, and I don't have to cover it since we have Tim here with us. So maybe

00:40:22.662 --> 00:40:25.406
- you just want to kind of give an overview

00:40:25.986 --> 00:40:33.219
- You know Your feedback that you shared with me and the parks responsibility and kind of what's going

00:40:33.219 --> 00:40:40.810
- well where you see opportunities for improvement And then we have any questions folks have sure Hopefully

00:40:40.810 --> 00:40:48.114
- I remember I would just say in terms of parks what we are responsible for is Primarily our facilities

00:40:48.114 --> 00:40:51.838
- so oftentimes we're having to make a call about our

00:40:51.970 --> 00:40:58.305
- facilities being open or closed things like the Twin Lakes rec center other places that people go to

00:40:58.305 --> 00:41:05.017
- recreate or have events and Then we have sort of a priority list that we hit during a snow event Typically

00:41:05.017 --> 00:41:11.290
- when we get an inch or more is when we activate if it's less than an inch We don't necessarily do a

00:41:11.290 --> 00:41:15.806
- full activation of our snow removal protocol the beeline is sort of the

00:41:16.386 --> 00:41:22.782
- The champion priority of all the priorities that we have just because it is such, you know, a recreation

00:41:22.782 --> 00:41:29.116
- and transportation artery for the city. And because if we get that plowed, then that can provide a safe

00:41:29.116 --> 00:41:35.451
- alternative to example, you know, college and Walnut sidewalks, which are going to deal with monolithic

00:41:35.451 --> 00:41:40.446
- snow getting pushed up issues and provide that basically same north south access.

00:41:41.186 --> 00:41:48.433
- From there, it's about other parks properties, starting again with access to the property is the priority.

00:41:48.433 --> 00:41:55.478
- And then we work our way in, starting with more major trails, including secondary trails. Jackson Creek

00:41:55.478 --> 00:42:02.386
- Trail, Clear Creek Trail, Polly Grimshaw Trail is another one that is important for transportation as

00:42:02.386 --> 00:42:09.566
- well, especially to campus from the east side. So those are sort of the secondary priorities. Rail trail.

00:42:09.762 --> 00:42:16.677
- really plow because it's soft surface. This time we actually did end up doing a little bit to it just

00:42:16.677 --> 00:42:23.592
- to make it lower and a little more attainable to people, but it is not always plowed. Things that are

00:42:23.592 --> 00:42:30.574
- going well, yeah, I think we have overall a good understanding, a good system with public works. I saw

00:42:30.574 --> 00:42:37.150
- some questions about multi-use trails versus paths, and I think Adam summed it up well. He said,

00:42:37.602 --> 00:42:44.365
- The public may not always understand where the responsibilities start and end between public works and

00:42:44.365 --> 00:42:51.062
- parks. We typically do And that is that public works is generally responsible for multi-use paths the

00:42:51.062 --> 00:42:57.956
- definition being a path goes along a road When we do the trails which the trails are generally not along

00:42:57.956 --> 00:43:04.062
- a road they go separate from a road so that's generally our area of just delineation I think

00:43:04.482 --> 00:43:10.795
- Yeah, as we mentioned, we've heard a lot of positive feedback about the beeline, about in general this

00:43:10.795 --> 00:43:17.291
- past storm. I also just heard a lot of positive feedback from residents in general about how appreciative

00:43:17.291 --> 00:43:23.665
- they were of having clear places to take their dogs to walk and to get to the grocery store or a crover

00:43:23.665 --> 00:43:29.794
- on the beeline, for example. Things like that and just how important it was to have in the midst of

00:43:29.794 --> 00:43:31.326
- a lot of uncertainty and

00:43:31.810 --> 00:43:38.706
- You know, maybe my neighbors have plowed their sidewalk. Maybe there's a missing section in my neighborhood

00:43:38.706 --> 00:43:45.154
- I can get all the way there except for this one house that hasn't done it To have the reliability of

00:43:45.154 --> 00:43:51.603
- some of the the trail and access options. I think is going well Challenges again. Yeah, just the the

00:43:51.603 --> 00:43:58.434
- mixed nature of it from time to time that it's I think it's right that it's never the same twice Questions

00:43:58.434 --> 00:44:00.286
- for yeah Kate and then Steve

00:44:01.026 --> 00:44:10.890
- I was looking at the GIS. A beeline question. I do think it is awesome that the beeline gets nowadays.

00:44:10.890 --> 00:44:21.329
- So the priority of it, I think I'm appreciative of that. If property lines, do you as parks do the sidewalks

00:44:21.329 --> 00:44:28.990
- that are part of the beeline property itself? Because the park is like probably

00:44:29.890 --> 00:44:36.300
- I don't know what that might be 10 10 feet on both sides of the beeline and because who would be responsible

00:44:36.300 --> 00:44:42.182
- for that actually That's a great question. Yeah, that gets at kind of what I think you were talking

00:44:42.182 --> 00:44:48.298
- about that last five to ten feet I'd actually need to check in with our There's more or less two people

00:44:48.298 --> 00:44:54.356
- that end up being responsible for the beeline snow removal up and down That would be a good point that

00:44:54.356 --> 00:44:56.414
- I could follow up and clarify with

00:45:01.154 --> 00:45:11.663
- I was going to ask, how does Parks track how much plowing is done? Do you have real-time info? Do plowers

00:45:11.663 --> 00:45:21.875
- report to you what they did? How quickly do you get that kind of data back if you track it at all? Not

00:45:21.875 --> 00:45:30.302
- very officially. Basically, we know, and I think I kind of said some napkin math is,

00:45:30.626 --> 00:45:38.428
- You know, we have about 20 union employees in our operations division and a couple others in other divisions

00:45:38.428 --> 00:45:45.729
- who, when we get a major snowfall event, it's their day, right? And maybe their day and more if we're

00:45:45.729 --> 00:45:52.887
- getting into overtime. When we get into overtime, we can track that pretty easily, overtime related

00:45:52.887 --> 00:45:59.902
- to snow removal events. So no, we haven't really done a concerted effort to track specific hours.

00:46:00.002 --> 00:46:08.667
- The reason I ask is because in both your case and Public Works' case, if you could track, you know,

00:46:08.667 --> 00:46:17.679
- segments that are cleared, it would be the beginning of a modest database that would allow us to expand

00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:26.430
- over time if we knew how much, you know, 20 union people could do in one day if we, you know, we get

00:46:26.430 --> 00:46:28.510
- a baseline sense of it.

00:46:28.834 --> 00:46:36.542
- And I don't want to create an excessive burden of work. But if you know you're clearing the Polygram

00:46:36.542 --> 00:46:44.174
- Shaw trail from x point to y point, and that's a standard thing that somebody does, they can report

00:46:44.174 --> 00:46:51.882
- in that they've done that. And we can get a sense of what the city is currently capable of. And that

00:46:51.882 --> 00:46:57.758
- will allow us to measure what public works can do and then what maybe we can

00:46:57.954 --> 00:47:06.884
- You know, I just, there's no data. And that data of hours spent doesn't really help. We need to kind

00:47:06.884 --> 00:47:15.990
- of know how linear fee cleared. And so I didn't know how much of a burden that would be, do you think,

00:47:15.990 --> 00:47:24.831
- for your staff to, is there a way to operationalize that? Yeah, there may be through something like

00:47:24.831 --> 00:47:26.334
- City Works where

00:47:27.170 --> 00:47:34.161
- I haven't really thought about this too much. I'd have to check with the GIS department. But some GIS

00:47:34.161 --> 00:47:41.426
- tracking or things like that, we use that in other applications. For example, weed wrangles and pesticide

00:47:41.426 --> 00:47:48.349
- application will do GIS tracks. So there may be a way we could do some similar GIS tracking for snow

00:47:48.349 --> 00:47:55.272
- removal. Also, are all the vehicles that are used to move snow, are they four wheeled? Are there any

00:47:55.272 --> 00:47:56.094
- hand plows?

00:47:56.482 --> 00:48:03.135
- What's the diversity that you use to clear? For the parks department, it's everything from full size

00:48:03.135 --> 00:48:09.853
- pickup trucks with blades, some UTVs that have different attachments, either a snow pusher or there's

00:48:09.853 --> 00:48:16.967
- one that's a broom for when it's like a lighter, fluffy snow, down to hand shoveling, down to snow blowers,

00:48:16.967 --> 00:48:21.182
- and a few other things in between I'm not thinking of probably.

00:48:21.858 --> 00:48:28.920
- Feel like this is the kind of thing that would be the subject of a Transportation Commission inquiry

00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:35.982
- that where we don't know anything enough and we don't even know whether to Recommend a resolution at

00:48:35.982 --> 00:48:43.184
- the Commission. We were looking for So it'd be interesting to for us to work with you to see if we can

00:48:43.184 --> 00:48:50.526
- find a system that doesn't put you all out while Thanks Other questions here be back for time good about

00:48:51.426 --> 00:48:56.736
- Yeah, I think that my my question is kind of on the vein of what Steve was just asking about is I mean

00:48:56.736 --> 00:49:02.252
- the question was how long does it take for you to clear, which of course I mean it depends on the snowfall

00:49:02.252 --> 00:49:07.511
- and I mean you said like it takes you know your 20 workers like a day but like say if we get you know

00:49:07.511 --> 00:49:08.542
- six inches of snow.

00:49:09.282 --> 00:49:16.085
- how long does it take for you to clear all of the things that you're responsible for clearing? Is that

00:49:16.085 --> 00:49:22.955
- a single day of work? Is that a day and a half? Do you just have them work overtime until they're done?

00:49:22.955 --> 00:49:29.626
- If this happens on a Saturday, do you call folks in on Sunday in order to get that done in terms of,

00:49:29.626 --> 00:49:34.910
- yeah, and it's kind of a similar question, I guess, but it's also that idea of,

00:49:37.058 --> 00:49:42.910
- how much different departments can help each other, because how much you can help each other sort of

00:49:42.910 --> 00:49:48.705
- depends on how long it takes you to do the things that you're actually responsible for. And I think

00:49:48.705 --> 00:49:54.557
- one of the challenges there is what you've hit on is what's the nature of it? Is it five wet inches?

00:49:54.557 --> 00:50:00.525
- Is it five dry inches? Is it to the point where we say, there's so much snow, go out and do your first

00:50:00.525 --> 00:50:03.422
- pass, at least get a first pass in, understanding

00:50:04.130 --> 00:50:09.912
- we're adjusting the quality of the job based on the quantity of the snow sometimes, right? Like it's

00:50:09.912 --> 00:50:15.809
- still coming down, we're gonna go hit a first pass, we're gonna have to do it again later, we're gonna

00:50:15.809 --> 00:50:21.534
- make it better, but at least there's a first pass in. So hard to answer, but I do think there might

00:50:21.534 --> 00:50:27.487
- be some applications of GIS where we could just start a track and get a little bit of interesting data.

00:50:27.487 --> 00:50:32.926
- In terms of how it's written in code with the requirement of the removal within 24 hours after

00:50:33.026 --> 00:50:40.662
- the snow stops falling. Is that accessible for your department to do? I would say many snowstorms, yes.

00:50:40.662 --> 00:50:48.225
- But for example, and I think same thing for Public Works, this 15-inch snowstorm last time, no. Within

00:50:48.225 --> 00:50:55.714
- 24 hours, could we get everything 54 inches? Could we do all of that? For the reasons we talked about

00:50:55.714 --> 00:51:02.910
- before, no. Just because there was so much snow being pushed around and limited places to put it.

00:51:03.426 --> 00:51:09.816
- And just a finite amount of labor and over time to to commit towards it that it just necessarily took

00:51:09.816 --> 00:51:16.206
- more time to get to the final standards that we wanted. OK. I have a question that isn't directly for

00:51:16.206 --> 00:51:22.658
- parks but you might know which is I was asked about public works if they were responsible for like all

00:51:22.658 --> 00:51:29.048
- city owned properties besides parks properties. The answer was no. And so parks does parks facilities

00:51:29.048 --> 00:51:31.742
- public works does public works facilities.

00:51:32.194 --> 00:51:39.263
- There are other city entities like the Redevelopment Commission or just others that have property, CBU.

00:51:39.263 --> 00:51:46.535
- So every department is essentially responsible for its own snow removal. And did they all do that in-house

00:51:46.535 --> 00:51:53.536
- or some contract for it? Do you know that? I believe CBU takes care of their own for their facilities.

00:51:53.536 --> 00:51:57.886
- I feel pretty confident about that. I don't know about the RDC.

00:51:58.818 --> 00:52:05.154
- Believe there may be precedent for some contractual removal at RDC But I'm not positive and I would

00:52:05.154 --> 00:52:11.553
- defer that back to Anna or to Adam to give a definitive answer That's when we had a gap at least one

00:52:11.553 --> 00:52:17.889
- gap with the college square property this last cycle So it's helpful to know that that's not public

00:52:17.889 --> 00:52:24.351
- works responsibility and that's like maybe it's a ball that's gotten dropped with RDC Other questions

00:52:24.351 --> 00:52:27.646
- or feedback for for Tim Casey, please You mentioned

00:52:28.098 --> 00:52:36.363
- The issue with shoveling 36 inches versus 54 and how long does that take depending on the amount of

00:52:36.363 --> 00:52:45.042
- snowfall. I'm wondering if it might be beneficial to the city to build a sort of policy that says within

00:52:45.042 --> 00:52:53.721
- X amount of 24 hours or 48 hours of a snowfall, it needs to be at 36 inches. And then at 72 to 96 hours,

00:52:53.721 --> 00:52:55.870
- we go to maybe 45 inches.

00:52:56.002 --> 00:53:04.106
- And then further out, we go to the 454 in order to give the city time to deal with the amount of snow,

00:53:04.106 --> 00:53:12.210
- but still keep it safe for the pedestrians. I think that sounds very reasonable. I think the challenge

00:53:12.210 --> 00:53:21.022
- is just always going to be putting a specific time limit not knowing what the conditions are and knowing that I

00:53:21.122 --> 00:53:27.486
- I think all departments I know public works, they get after it. They do everything they can to get it

00:53:27.486 --> 00:53:33.787
- clear, including the Brighton VTown crew that does the downtown ramps. And we collaborate and try to

00:53:33.787 --> 00:53:40.027
- help out. And across departments, we'll see something that needs to be done. We'll try to help. But

00:53:40.027 --> 00:53:46.640
- I just don't know how you could get a sort of time limit that would work across the board. I guess that's

00:53:46.640 --> 00:53:49.822
- the challenge with private enforcement too, right?

00:53:50.626 --> 00:53:57.724
- Maybe that is a good lead in to hand as the next part we'll talk about because it gets into the enforcement

00:53:57.724 --> 00:54:04.361
- context. It seems like some discretion is necessary around that type of thing, but it's a little bit

00:54:04.361 --> 00:54:11.130
- tricky to spell it out. So we still need standards that are kind of the default, but then some ability

00:54:11.130 --> 00:54:18.622
- to have some discretion around enforcement. Interestingly, so the questions that Director Killian Hanson answered

00:54:19.522 --> 00:54:26.184
- She mentioned, I think, a process of issuing warnings first, which is actually not what's in code. Code

00:54:26.184 --> 00:54:32.975
- says if we determine there's a violation, the person shall issue a notice of violation. And so I actually

00:54:32.975 --> 00:54:39.958
- don't think that discretion that's being exercised currently is in code. But I think some kind of discretion

00:54:39.958 --> 00:54:46.620
- is probably warranted. But there's also an appeals process that's defined in code, which we didn't talk

00:54:46.620 --> 00:54:48.734
- about earlier, though it's quite

00:54:48.834 --> 00:54:56.128
- quick turnaround, like seven days, you have to notify the Board of Public Works in writing that you're

00:54:56.128 --> 00:55:03.352
- appealing, which might be a little onerous. But yeah, so hand. The overall theme was that enforcement

00:55:03.352 --> 00:55:10.717
- is a real challenge for the Housing and Neighborhood Development Department. That ranges from staffing.

00:55:10.717 --> 00:55:18.366
- The folks who do the apartment inspections and certification are the folks who are doing the enforcement on

00:55:19.074 --> 00:55:25.827
- failure to remove snow from sidewalks. So they're already kind of like overworked and limited in their

00:55:25.827 --> 00:55:32.384
- ability to get to it. There are operational challenges around like the time it takes. She mentioned

00:55:32.384 --> 00:55:39.072
- the 24-hour window thing and when to start enforcing is kind of like a barrier. They're getting a lot

00:55:39.072 --> 00:55:45.890
- of complaints. They can't do anything about them yet. That often snow is melting before they get around

00:55:45.890 --> 00:55:48.382
- issuing a citation, things like that.

00:55:48.898 --> 00:55:56.415
- She did note that there were 275 complaints and 307 citations, which I was a little surprised to hear.

00:55:56.415 --> 00:56:04.371
- I just assumed there would be fewer citations relative to the complaints. I did identify 400 plus complaints

00:56:04.371 --> 00:56:11.742
- in the snow removal category for this past winter, so I'm not sure what the source of discrepancy is

00:56:11.742 --> 00:56:18.238
- there, but those were sort of the major themes, at least that I read in the answers from

00:56:18.402 --> 00:56:25.907
- from hand, do folks have questions that we want to, I kind of anticipate having follow up conversation

00:56:25.907 --> 00:56:33.557
- with the department heads, and so do folks have questions they are still seeking answers to or reactions

00:56:33.557 --> 00:56:40.843
- or feedback to ideas that were spurred by what the department heads shared, so a hand in this case?

00:56:40.843 --> 00:56:47.838
- Steve? What was, Dave and Andy, what was the term for when we wanted apartment buildings to not

00:56:48.162 --> 00:56:59.415
- One hookup but a hookup for every unit. What was that? Yeah, what was that what the word for that Concurrency

00:56:59.415 --> 00:57:09.644
- is that it was it called do we call it concurrency where the point was just that what the gentleman

00:57:09.644 --> 00:57:10.974
- said about a

00:57:11.586 --> 00:57:21.547
- Billing, finding per unit as opposed to, or at least per linear foot. Per linear foot, yeah. Yeah, that

00:57:21.547 --> 00:57:31.413
- is a loophole. It's a big loophole. And that any new policy ought to address density. You know, at the

00:57:31.413 --> 00:57:41.278
- very least, I mean, for a larger property that has more linear feet, that maybe ought to be a concern.

00:57:41.378 --> 00:57:47.997
- the number of people crossing on a side like that. But for an apartment building, that's a reasonable

00:57:47.997 --> 00:57:54.747
- thing that I think that ought to make its way into a new policy. The other thing is just even more now,

00:57:54.747 --> 00:58:01.561
- I feel like, especially if it's somebody in parks. I don't know if there's a meteorologist on your staff

00:58:01.561 --> 00:58:08.050
- or anybody who tracks. But if there was an official city announcement of how much snow was falling,

00:58:08.050 --> 00:58:11.230
- I think there's more than one class of snowfall.

00:58:11.682 --> 00:58:20.180
- Uh, but like, you know, at three inches or below, it's this kind of fine. And at six inches or below,

00:58:20.180 --> 00:58:28.679
- it's this kind of fine. Or, uh, if, uh, uh, if the temperature goes above 32 degrees, uh, for, uh, we

00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:37.011
- have to find some way to classify the amount of snow that's fallen. That's practical, but that, uh,

00:58:37.011 --> 00:58:40.510
- recognizes that not all snow is the same.

00:58:41.026 --> 00:58:48.165
- You know maybe we don't need to worry if it's less than an inch. Maybe we need to give people more time

00:58:48.165 --> 00:58:55.166
- if it's more than a foot stuff like that. Those are just some thoughts that are coming to me. I think

00:58:55.166 --> 00:59:02.168
- that the commission the transmission commission would take it. We'll have a great interest in helping

00:59:02.168 --> 00:59:07.934
- research this issue and working with planning and park staff to and public works to

00:59:09.058 --> 00:59:18.961
- deliberate over this if if the council wants it. Other questions or reactions to the hand. Yeah as well

00:59:18.961 --> 00:59:28.484
- then I'll be well first of all just to clarify. So for an apartment building the limit to municipal

00:59:28.484 --> 00:59:37.054
- code only applies to the sidewalk in front of the building the public right of way so not

00:59:38.466 --> 00:59:50.268
- There's no unfortunate mechanism if they don't clear their parking lot, unfortunately. Another point

00:59:50.268 --> 01:00:02.187
- I wanted to bring up is according to the numbers that Anna Kelly Hansen provided, where there was 370

01:00:02.187 --> 01:00:05.342
- citations and what was it?

01:00:06.178 --> 01:00:16.117
- Or escalating fines we did have snow that stuck around for weeks and if people don't Aren't responsive.

01:00:16.117 --> 01:00:25.865
- I'm a little unclear about that. That's something to clarify So I guess I would like to know if there

01:00:25.865 --> 01:00:35.518
- is any proactive monitor, you know Maybe large properties sidewalks are clear downtown. I don't know

01:00:35.714 --> 01:00:50.636
- Hopi Yeah, thank you. So one of the things that I wondered when I read this and it actually related

01:00:50.636 --> 01:00:54.366
- also to something that I

01:00:55.298 --> 01:01:00.589
- one of the members of the public said about the rental properties and who's responsible for snow removal.

01:01:00.589 --> 01:01:05.731
- And my thought honestly was that we should just always make the owner responsible in terms of the fine

01:01:05.731 --> 01:01:10.872
- and that it's their responsibility that if they expect their tenant to that they're going to pass that

01:01:10.872 --> 01:01:15.614
- fine on to their tenant if their tenant doesn't do what it is that's in their lease agreement.

01:01:15.810 --> 01:01:23.550
- So maybe putting that specifically into code could help relieve that lack of clarity for hand in terms

01:01:23.550 --> 01:01:31.064
- of issuing those citations. So that was one of the things that I wondered. I also wondered, so this

01:01:31.064 --> 01:01:38.804
- was a question maybe that you can, I think you're writing down questions for department, that's great.

01:01:38.804 --> 01:01:40.382
- Whether there, that,

01:01:41.474 --> 01:01:48.711
- Handbeam proactively monitoring forecasted storm systems and then rescheduling inspections And so I

01:01:48.711 --> 01:01:56.309
- was wondering if that change and monitoring resulted in more ticketing More compliance generally whether

01:01:56.309 --> 01:02:03.618
- there were whether they managed to issue more fines. I'm definitely interested in that question that

01:02:03.618 --> 01:02:10.782
- Is belt brought up in terms of what does that? 370 mean is that 370 $50 fines like did we actually

01:02:10.946 --> 01:02:19.680
- Was there any revenue generated from fines specifically related to snow removal and I would similarly

01:02:19.680 --> 01:02:28.672
- be interested in terms of How much we charge for that? I mean there is staff time associated with having

01:02:28.672 --> 01:02:34.238
- to go out and Ticket and wanting to make sure that our fines are

01:02:34.498 --> 01:02:42.072
- Appropriate for the staff time that gets used and I'm not quite sure how long that fine of $50 has been

01:02:42.072 --> 01:02:49.719
- there But I think it's been a really long time. Yeah, and there have been lots of increases in all sorts

01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:57.147
- of Things including staff Salaries, so I think that it's really appropriate to increase that and then

01:02:57.147 --> 01:02:59.550
- my last thought was wondering is

01:03:00.258 --> 01:03:08.290
- Whether city staff from outside of the hand department whether they could be trained to help hand during

01:03:08.290 --> 01:03:15.939
- these especially large events of Addressing the you reports writing citations like like checking to

01:03:15.939 --> 01:03:23.895
- verify especially thinking about some of our staff members who are already out in those whether so it's

01:03:23.895 --> 01:03:30.014
- not like a member of the hand department is having to drive over somewhere when

01:03:30.114 --> 01:03:38.178
- You know, maybe a police officer who's already, you know going through that neighborhood can Drive by

01:03:38.178 --> 01:03:46.243
- and take a quick photo and send it or sanitation Parking enforcement parking enforcement like I think

01:03:46.243 --> 01:03:54.466
- that they're it just kind of brainstorming to wonder whether there are other ways that we could utilize

01:03:54.466 --> 01:03:58.814
- other departments to support hand in some of that even

01:03:59.074 --> 01:04:05.603
- Even like plow drivers because they're out especially with the large events like this time. I mean they

01:04:05.603 --> 01:04:11.943
- went over and over and over to improve things and whether Those staff members could ever be utilized

01:04:11.943 --> 01:04:18.346
- in any way to support the hand department Steve It would also be interesting to find out the protocol

01:04:18.346 --> 01:04:24.812
- the parking enforcement uses when there's snow on the ground at a certain point they can't enforce the

01:04:24.812 --> 01:04:27.198
- meters because they can't be seen and

01:04:27.682 --> 01:04:34.483
- Or they can't be accessed So it would be interesting to find out what they know But I absolutely want

01:04:34.483 --> 01:04:41.352
- to chime in on the idea that when they can't enforce meters They can and should be right helping moose

01:04:41.352 --> 01:04:45.886
- know or at least identifying how it's being done That was promising

01:04:45.986 --> 01:04:52.504
- Tim I'll just throw out one as I've been thinking about timing of storms and severity of storms one

01:04:52.504 --> 01:04:59.413
- metric that might be available Out there that you could look at tying something to is the travel advisory

01:04:59.413 --> 01:05:06.126
- status Because that is something that is subjective but is set at certain times And could also dictate

01:05:06.126 --> 01:05:12.644
- what level of staff response is even appropriate at a given time based on the severity of the storm

01:05:12.644 --> 01:05:14.078
- and the travel status

01:05:17.538 --> 01:05:27.293
- Yeah. Kate and then as well. I was wondering about a couple of things. One how we have that reset every

01:05:27.293 --> 01:05:36.955
- year that you can get a warning and let's question the warning. But for other infractions or citations

01:05:36.955 --> 01:05:45.022
- we sometimes do a three year. So would we want some a longer period. You know we have

01:05:45.282 --> 01:05:51.716
- I think with the conditional duplexes right now, if you have any citations or infractions for the last

01:05:51.716 --> 01:05:58.026
- three years also, you can't build a conditional duplex. And I don't know if we would want to look at

01:05:58.026 --> 01:06:04.273
- putting something like this in that list of if you don't clear sidewalks, then you will be added to

01:06:04.273 --> 01:06:10.708
- this list, and you cannot participate like everyone else kind of thing. Because I think it is that big

01:06:10.708 --> 01:06:14.206
- of a deal that we need our sidewalks cleared, you know?

01:06:14.338 --> 01:06:23.498
- Another one I thought of is not using other hand staff but honestly doing like a temp agency for snow

01:06:23.498 --> 01:06:33.197
- events because it is so random and temp agencies do that like emergency staffing where either for citations

01:06:33.197 --> 01:06:42.357
- or I mean I was really wondering too if there's any way to do a citation slash a removal service that

01:06:42.357 --> 01:06:43.614
- then they get

01:06:43.842 --> 01:06:50.542
- billed for the snow removal off of their sidewalk. I don't know if you heard that, but just because

01:06:50.542 --> 01:06:57.309
- a citation doesn't fix the problem that people can't get through in the snow that I consider like an

01:06:57.309 --> 01:07:04.277
- urgent emergency. Like if sidewalks aren't accessible, like right, them getting a $50 fine or $150 fine

01:07:04.277 --> 01:07:08.766
- doesn't really, it does not fix the problem. And I think too about

01:07:08.930 --> 01:07:14.118
- it's such a wacky thing that that snow events happen and that even like property owners can normally

01:07:14.118 --> 01:07:19.358
- clear it but they might be on vacation right and they might not have a backup and I'm not saying they

01:07:19.358 --> 01:07:24.546
- shouldn't but it's like they might have just been like I never thought about hiring someone you know

01:07:24.546 --> 01:07:29.785
- like someone's checking my mail but I didn't think about like snow removal and it's just like there's

01:07:29.785 --> 01:07:34.973
- just so much to consider and then if someone gets cited while they are out of town they might not do

01:07:34.973 --> 01:07:37.182
- anything about it and so then people can't

01:07:37.314 --> 01:07:44.264
- can't get through still. So I would love to even look at a fee for service if you don't get it done

01:07:44.264 --> 01:07:50.728
- yourself. We are doing it, and we're charging you. Isabel, and then we should move on. Also,

01:07:50.728 --> 01:07:57.678
- just a reminder, we do have a section about solutions. So this is a little bit more about questions

01:07:57.678 --> 01:08:04.976
- for hand and clarifying anything from them. But we'll talk about specific issues and potential solutions

01:08:04.976 --> 01:08:06.366
- too. It's all good.

01:08:07.490 --> 01:08:18.702
- Well, in Adam Wayson's replies, the Public Works Department did a pilot where they cleared snow off

01:08:18.702 --> 01:08:31.034
- of some sidewalks downtown. And I think he said they were having a hard time even finding private contractors

01:08:31.034 --> 01:08:34.622
- to do that work. So it may not.

01:08:35.234 --> 01:08:44.407
- Maybe this will spur entrepreneurship, I don't know. But if we're going to move to billing people for

01:08:44.407 --> 01:08:53.490
- actual snow removal, then we need to look at how much snow removal capacity our community has. But I

01:08:53.490 --> 01:09:02.663
- was actually going to say, I would want to ask Hand and people who do the enforcement what they would

01:09:02.663 --> 01:09:03.742
- think about

01:09:05.826 --> 01:09:14.593
- Well, maybe it's not actually for them to decide. Probably for us to decide. But I'm contemplating a

01:09:14.593 --> 01:09:23.533
- distinction in fine structure between either between a single house, whether it's rental or owned, and

01:09:23.533 --> 01:09:32.387
- commercial property, which would include permanent buildings, businesses, et cetera, car dealerships,

01:09:32.387 --> 01:09:33.342
- et cetera.

01:09:34.626 --> 01:09:43.381
- make the fine based on linear feet of sidewalk. I mean, it's a huge difference if I don't clear in front

01:09:43.381 --> 01:09:51.887
- of my little 50 foot right of way in front of my house, or the Ford dealership on South Walnut, which

01:09:51.887 --> 01:09:59.641
- is a quarter of a mile long, doesn't clear their sidewalk. So I think we need to think about

01:09:59.641 --> 01:10:01.726
- some distinctions there.

01:10:01.954 --> 01:10:07.816
- Inevitably with this is a little bit I was just noting that we do have an official agenda portions Maybe

01:10:07.816 --> 01:10:13.454
- we move into public works just by way of summary Is there a final thing on hand? Yeah, it's actually

01:10:13.454 --> 01:10:19.092
- kind of a question also from a constituent who mentioned the idea of neighborhood volunteers to help

01:10:19.092 --> 01:10:24.675
- do the reporting and I'm wondering if that would be at all practical because then I mean I think in

01:10:24.675 --> 01:10:28.862
- some ways it might make it easier if there's a single point of contact and

01:10:30.658 --> 01:10:39.229
- Opposed to you know, lots of people Okay, thank you so public works some just by way of summary They

01:10:39.229 --> 01:10:47.801
- spend quite quite a lot and so we're generally a lot on equipment or materials looked like 700k plus

01:10:47.801 --> 01:10:56.542
- we they do have plus We do have 50k that they have used to pilot some things and they did a pedestrian

01:10:57.026 --> 01:11:02.622
- or sorry, monolithic sidewalks on College Walnut Corridor between First Street and Winslow, including

01:11:02.622 --> 01:11:08.656
- carrying snow away. That might have also applied to the downtown curb ramps that the DPW Brighton Bloomington

01:11:08.656 --> 01:11:14.197
- crews worked on. So those were kind of some of the pilot things. Those might have both been covered.

01:11:14.197 --> 01:11:20.121
- It seemed to me like the College Walnut Corridor one was maybe not worth the effort. It was very difficult.

01:11:20.121 --> 01:11:25.772
- And that actually probably isn't, like it was hard for them to be effective. They were like repeatedly

01:11:25.772 --> 01:11:26.814
- hauling snow away.

01:11:27.618 --> 01:11:34.057
- It was a lot of money out of a small area that actually probably doesn't have relative like very high

01:11:34.057 --> 01:11:40.371
- pedestrian use and so I'm curious about like It is a monolithic sidewalk issue But like might we be

01:11:40.371 --> 01:11:47.252
- better served by like having them just target curb ramps and like the high pedestrian use areas Or something

01:11:47.252 --> 01:11:53.755
- like that. So that was an interesting report. I kind of like how it's going Clarifying clarifying that

01:11:53.755 --> 01:11:55.838
- multi-use paths and and probably

01:11:55.970 --> 01:12:01.987
- works facilities are what they clear. They feel clear on responsibilities in city parks, maybe less

01:12:01.987 --> 01:12:08.064
- so that confident that residents are clear. Just anecdotally, an example I'll share. I know New Hope

01:12:08.064 --> 01:12:14.202
- families, like the multi-use path in front of their building along Patterson there, their portion was

01:12:14.202 --> 01:12:20.339
- cleared. I'm guessing they did that because the other portions of the multi-use path were not cleared

01:12:20.339 --> 01:12:25.694
- for the entire duration of the previous snowstorm. So it seems like maybe that was a gap

01:12:25.890 --> 01:12:32.073
- what was on Public Works radar, but then also residents maybe not being sure about whether they had

01:12:32.073 --> 01:12:38.381
- to clear or not. And so it does seem like there's some ambiguities there to resolve. Adam highlighted

01:12:38.381 --> 01:12:45.182
- just how hard the folks on street work, that they feel good about their activation and their responsibilities

01:12:45.182 --> 01:12:51.675
- generally. Noted they have challenges with equipment, especially with relation to protective bike lanes.

01:12:51.675 --> 01:12:54.334
- I don't know, I'd be curious, Tim, if they

01:12:55.106 --> 01:13:01.659
- Share equipment at all if they have any equipment that is like yours for smaller Flick spaces like protective

01:13:01.659 --> 01:13:08.153
- bike lanes, which are having more of over time He also mentioned challenges with curb ramps model sidewalks,

01:13:08.153 --> 01:13:14.348
- of course Willing vendors for contracted services And also the quality of their own facilities relative

01:13:14.348 --> 01:13:20.365
- to the you know long hours worked so Maybe I'll start with you too. I do not know the answer to like

01:13:20.365 --> 01:13:23.582
- what smaller equipment they're actually using on like

01:13:23.778 --> 01:13:29.986
- Seven line for example. Yeah, I'm not sure okay Is that something that I know that in inner department

01:13:29.986 --> 01:13:36.436
- kind of like agreements around stuff like exceed my understanding but is that something where like Sharing

01:13:36.436 --> 01:13:42.704
- equipment across departments is is viable or is that something else? Yes. Yeah, I mean just potentially

01:13:42.704 --> 01:13:48.792
- based on What it's being used for and it's it's home department, right? But no, we we do share stuff

01:13:48.792 --> 01:13:51.806
- back and forth frequently Okay as available. Yeah

01:13:52.450 --> 01:13:59.657
- Thanks. Other reactions, questions for Public Works? Stacey. Casey, sorry. I'm wondering, you talk about

01:13:59.657 --> 01:14:06.795
- the equipment that we have here in Bloomington. Do you ever contact other cities outside of Bloomington

01:14:06.795 --> 01:14:14.139
- to borrow equipment in major storm events? We have not, no. Would that be a potential solution? Potential.

01:14:14.139 --> 01:14:21.003
- I mean, if you could reach far enough away, I think that the challenge with most snowstorms is that

01:14:21.003 --> 01:14:22.238
- they're regional.

01:14:22.690 --> 01:14:28.697
- And so most of your regional partners like Columbus has helped us with storms in the past. But if we

01:14:28.697 --> 01:14:35.000
- get a snowstorm Columbus probably is too. So I don't know that there's much opportunity there for sharing

01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:41.066
- unless you had you really knew there was a big storm coming and were able to have some kind of mutual

01:14:41.066 --> 01:14:46.597
- aid agreement with someone far away. Yeah. Could that be something that the city looks into.

01:14:46.597 --> 01:14:49.214
- I don't know. I think it's a good question.

01:14:52.738 --> 01:15:03.023
- So sharing with IU as another I mean they have loads of non infrastructure that they clear Other reactions

01:15:03.023 --> 01:15:12.731
- or additional questions for public works Areas for exploration I have a question that would be do we

01:15:12.731 --> 01:15:15.422
- have to clear every lane of

01:15:16.386 --> 01:15:24.786
- wide streets like do we need three lanes on walnut during Snow clearing or could some of those resources,

01:15:24.786 --> 01:15:33.106
- you know, could we clear one lane on major streets like that? And then those resources be used elsewhere

01:15:33.106 --> 01:15:41.110
- I have a question for them about the ability to Basically many of our streets are overbuilt or wider

01:15:41.110 --> 01:15:45.310
- than they need to be and is it possible to clear not

01:15:46.114 --> 01:15:53.603
- Very close like five feet away from the monolithic sidewalk. So you're in a book with it Basically a

01:15:53.603 --> 01:16:01.018
- pile of snow in the street, but nevertheless, you know enough room for cars to go That's a question

01:16:01.018 --> 01:16:08.507
- I have Would it be possible with the Clearing of the sidewalks to potentially use bike lanes because

01:16:08.507 --> 01:16:11.102
- not many people are biking in them

01:16:12.738 --> 01:16:19.341
- Well, some people are still trying, but as far as putting the snow, like storing the snow there? Not

01:16:19.341 --> 01:16:26.010
- necessarily storing it there, but if we're in the process of moving it out and we need to temporarily

01:16:26.010 --> 01:16:33.136
- put it there while we're getting equipment, could that be a workable solution? I think it's what's happening

01:16:33.136 --> 01:16:39.870
- now with maybe the exception of protected bike lanes, which I think they're trying to plow separately.

01:16:40.194 --> 01:16:48.221
- But I think in general where we just have striped bike lanes on the street in practice What's getting

01:16:48.221 --> 01:16:56.169
- cleared probably mostly is like a drive lane. That's just becomes de facto shared So I think I think

01:16:56.169 --> 01:17:04.432
- some of that is happening. I'm not sure it's ideal but other Public works specific thoughts Hopi I guess

01:17:04.432 --> 01:17:08.446
- I want to second the confusion about what might be

01:17:08.706 --> 01:17:19.027
- as a multi-use path and what might not. There's a link in his report to the GIS snow remediation map,

01:17:19.027 --> 01:17:29.146
- but then I have to log in to ArcGIS, and I don't know that I have an Esri account to be able to log

01:17:29.146 --> 01:17:37.950
- in and see that. But I guess that would be a question because, I mean, if the sidewalk

01:17:38.178 --> 01:17:47.305
- Excuse me is is wider Out front and you think maybe it's a multi-use path or maybe it's not a multi-use

01:17:47.305 --> 01:17:56.257
- path like And is there a map somewhere for a resident to be able to see where all the multi-use paths

01:17:56.257 --> 01:17:57.310
- are? Mm-hmm

01:17:58.850 --> 01:18:04.697
- Good question and for the department and just and or like reporting that is something like if they're

01:18:04.697 --> 01:18:10.487
- tracking this already Is it something that could actually be reported on if not to the council maybe

01:18:10.487 --> 01:18:16.335
- to the Transportation Commission or something like that? One other thing I will I did speak with Adam

01:18:16.335 --> 01:18:22.240
- on the phone earlier today and he also mentioned their kind of sidewalk operations plan In development

01:18:22.240 --> 01:18:25.278
- still I think they're still working on some sidewalk

01:18:25.794 --> 01:18:33.166
- data things related to maintenance and accessibility gaps. But in his mind, this all kind of factored

01:18:33.166 --> 01:18:40.682
- into that. And the Transportation Commission was also a natural partner on that. And to the extent that

01:18:40.682 --> 01:18:48.343
- some of the opportunities for improvements might be operational, you know, resident education, reporting,

01:18:48.343 --> 01:18:54.558
- things like that, and need not be codified, that their appearance in a plan and their

01:18:55.586 --> 01:19:03.143
- you know, I guess, synergy with the Transportation Commission might be a good venue. So just to clarify,

01:19:03.143 --> 01:19:10.340
- municipal code only talks about sidewalks, not multi-use paths. That's right. It's a multi-use path

01:19:10.340 --> 01:19:17.609
- that's along a street, like Roger Street or Patterson or Grimes, like an extra new hope. They're not

01:19:17.609 --> 01:19:24.446
- legally required to clear that. I think the property owner, right? Yeah, I think that's right.

01:19:25.570 --> 01:19:32.315
- Well unless the city is in fact doing it all the multi-use pass they're probably easier to plow most

01:19:32.315 --> 01:19:39.059
- of them are asphalt not Well, they didn't that might have just been a failure of our own operational

01:19:39.059 --> 01:19:45.938
- protocols, but that's a question for clarity Unless there's any last comments on public works. I might

01:19:45.938 --> 01:19:53.150
- just open it up for just a minute or two I'm planning a transportation their feedback was quite limited and

01:19:53.474 --> 01:19:59.235
- And then maybe we can kind of go into these categories of solutions and talk through things. I'd like

01:19:59.235 --> 01:20:04.882
- to keep us to around 830 to finish. Obviously we've been workshopping and getting kind of solutions

01:20:04.882 --> 01:20:10.700
- adjacent in some of the conversation already. Planning and transportation doesn't have a lot of direct

01:20:10.700 --> 01:20:16.404
- responsibility in this like Parks Hand or Public Works does. Nevertheless, it's where the pedestrian

01:20:16.404 --> 01:20:22.277
- and bicycle coordinator position is located. They administer Safe Streets for All and our comprehensive

01:20:22.277 --> 01:20:23.294
- plan essentially.

01:20:23.490 --> 01:20:30.304
- So the feedback from Director Hittle was, again, relatively limited, kind of noted that some of the

01:20:30.304 --> 01:20:37.254
- things he thought were going well was using the high-injury network where we are trying to prioritize

01:20:37.254 --> 01:20:44.340
- pedestrian safety in particular as a lens through which to think about the limited public works dollars

01:20:44.340 --> 01:20:51.359
- and where those can go for pedestrian routes, monolithic sidewalks as a particular challenge, and just

01:20:51.359 --> 01:20:52.926
- expense and logistics.

01:20:53.826 --> 01:21:00.654
- I don't think a lot to dig into there. But if people had specific questions for follow-up with planning,

01:21:00.654 --> 01:21:07.677
- yeah Well, I guess this goes back to staff coordination because I know that the planning and transportation

01:21:07.677 --> 01:21:14.180
- Department also issues certain types of notices of violations depending on what it is like And so I

01:21:14.180 --> 01:21:20.683
- wonder if that would be another Good option for a department to help partner with hand During these

01:21:20.683 --> 01:21:21.854
- large snow events

01:21:23.714 --> 01:21:30.544
- Yeah, it seems like one well-equipped person with the right software could just proactively monitor

01:21:30.544 --> 01:21:37.715
- the high injury network and issue citations. Because yeah, right now it feels like we have a scattershot

01:21:37.715 --> 01:21:43.998
- kind of reactive approach. Good question. Other planning related observations or questions?

01:21:54.306 --> 01:22:02.352
- I was going to point out that planning and transportation and engineering co staff the transportation

01:22:02.352 --> 01:22:10.240
- commission. This kind of inquiry would fall under the jurisdiction of planning. So in a way I think

01:22:10.240 --> 01:22:17.734
- maybe they're more a department that would help derive the solution as opposed. In other words

01:22:17.734 --> 01:22:23.966
- the coordination solution between departments since planning is in their name.

01:22:24.354 --> 01:22:32.317
- But it like I wouldn't expect them to try it to do enforcement. I expect them to do to help Coordinate

01:22:32.317 --> 01:22:40.357
- a response between departments. So I think they they would be very useful in that respect And they will

01:22:40.357 --> 01:22:48.088
- be actively Discussing this issue when we bring it as an inquiry. It'll be part of that discussion.

01:22:48.088 --> 01:22:52.958
- I think Tim, do you know of any? what I'm in interdepartmental

01:22:53.634 --> 01:23:01.142
- discussion looks like on this particular issue? Is there anything standing or occurring? Yeah. We have

01:23:01.142 --> 01:23:08.650
- had periodic check-ins with the GIS team to try to update that map that you're referencing. I was just

01:23:08.650 --> 01:23:16.158
- looking for the link. I can't find it at the moment. That has been a typical ongoing thing to just try

01:23:16.158 --> 01:23:21.406
- to clarify some of those. Are we covering these things? Is there a gap?

01:23:22.850 --> 01:23:29.597
- I'd say that happens probably once a year, but no other I think I think this is the impetus for maybe

01:23:29.597 --> 01:23:36.278
- other coordination other than coordination during storms and phone calls and Borrowing and equipment

01:23:36.278 --> 01:23:43.356
- and things like that that come up that was discussed Got it. Thank you any final Observations or questions

01:23:43.356 --> 01:23:50.302
- for planning before I move on to kind of talking about solutions more Alright, let's do it. So this next

01:23:50.626 --> 01:23:57.164
- The topic was really just me framing how I think about this a little bit. We've kind of got policy,

01:23:57.164 --> 01:24:03.898
- budget, and operations. And so, revisions to like the fine schedule, right, or responsibilities, those

01:24:03.898 --> 01:24:10.632
- might be entering into actual policy, which is kind of squarely our purview, but, you know, to be done

01:24:10.632 --> 01:24:17.301
- collaboratively. Budgetary, you know, the dollars we allocate for clearing pedestrian infrastructure,

01:24:17.301 --> 01:24:19.262
- addressing specific gaps like

01:24:19.394 --> 01:24:25.748
- you know, curb cuts and curb ramps. Staffing, resourcing, right, equipment needs. Director Wason mentioned

01:24:25.748 --> 01:24:31.984
- protective bike lanes, struggling with those, other staffing issues. So then operational, that can range

01:24:31.984 --> 01:24:38.339
- from, you know, resident community outreach, other things people have been suggesting about how we conduct

01:24:38.339 --> 01:24:44.990
- business, how we might collaborate or coordinate. And sometimes things are going to touch on multiple of those.

01:24:45.666 --> 01:24:51.910
- We are least probably suited to direct the operational pieces, but I think questions and recommendations

01:24:51.910 --> 01:24:58.154
- can help. And so maybe these categories that I outlined are a little arbitrary. Maybe we can spend eight

01:24:58.154 --> 01:25:04.577
- or 10 minutes in each. Folks, it was some suggested topics that again surfaced as like these are particular

01:25:04.577 --> 01:25:10.642
- issues that have been coming up again and again from resident feedback, and that people have specific

01:25:10.642 --> 01:25:14.270
- ideas, potential solutions that they'd like us to look into.

01:25:14.946 --> 01:25:22.107
- as we pursue next steps on addressing some of these particular challenges. So in the network accessibility

01:25:22.107 --> 01:25:29.068
- category, I listed like monolithic sidewalks, sidewalk clearance gaps, and just the high injury network

01:25:29.068 --> 01:25:36.028
- in particular as maybe a focus area. Is this useful? Let me pause actually. Are these categories useful

01:25:36.028 --> 01:25:42.654
- for discussing solutions? Do you just wanna treat the whole list here as sort of like a, you know,

01:25:42.786 --> 01:25:50.821
- getting the juices flowing, talk about whatever you want for the next period. The latter? Option two.

01:25:50.821 --> 01:25:58.778
- OK. Let's do that. Great. So for the bus stops, does Bloomington Transit, could they maybe take some

01:25:58.778 --> 01:26:06.892
- responsibility for clearing bus stops? I mean, I know they're not set up for it, but they need to join

01:26:06.892 --> 01:26:09.886
- the conversation about that, I think.

01:26:12.002 --> 01:26:19.120
- Do they do anything now? I don't even know. Yeah, good question. Yeah, I similarly did you talk to John

01:26:19.120 --> 01:26:26.649
- Connell? I did not. The CCA has done a little bit of work with Bloomington Transit and I've had conversations

01:26:26.649 --> 01:26:33.973
- with John because we did a presentation for them about people with disabilities in the summer of I believe

01:26:33.973 --> 01:26:41.502
- 2025. And one of the things that John said, because I bought up an anecdote about a winter when it had snowed

01:26:41.954 --> 01:26:47.922
- I went to somewhere and the bus dropped me, but the sidewalk wasn't cleared and the bus stop wasn't

01:26:47.922 --> 01:26:54.129
- cleared. And I asked the driver, where do I go for you to pick me back up? And they said, we can't pick

01:26:54.129 --> 01:27:00.216
- you back up because we only pick up at the sidewalks or at the bus stops. And when I brought that up,

01:27:00.216 --> 01:27:06.184
- John happened to be in the room. And he brought it up that if a driver pulls up to a stop and it is

01:27:06.184 --> 01:27:10.302
- not cleared, they are supposed to radio it in from my understanding.

01:27:10.882 --> 01:27:19.606
- And also that if they drop off a person who has disabilities somewhere other than a bus stop, then they

01:27:19.606 --> 01:27:27.995
- need to radio that in so that alternative solutions can be made. Because what I ultimately ended up

01:27:27.995 --> 01:27:36.803
- having to do was call the transit office and I said, how am I getting home? Because there's no sidewalks

01:27:36.803 --> 01:27:40.830
- that connect to this building. Major sidewalks.

01:27:41.058 --> 01:27:48.070
- the FSSA building, which is a building that many people with disabilities have to interact with for

01:27:48.070 --> 01:27:55.152
- various reasons. And what they ended up having to do was send a BT access to be able to come get me.

01:27:55.152 --> 01:28:02.375
- But I'm not a BT access user. Yeah, that's very helpful. And sorry you experienced that, but thank you

01:28:02.375 --> 01:28:07.774
- for the information. Yeah, Steve. Her story is literally why you all created

01:28:08.194 --> 01:28:17.000
- the makeup of the Transportation Commission. It includes John Connell. Often, his deputy, Shelley Stramitis,

01:28:17.000 --> 01:28:25.320
- is there for him, but he literally sits on the commission to address issues exactly like this. I mean,

01:28:25.320 --> 01:28:33.560
- so I mean, I am sure that when, if and when we deliberate on it, that would be a good place to do it,

01:28:33.560 --> 01:28:37.438
- because he'll be there. Other solutions, ideas?

01:28:39.810 --> 01:28:47.281
- Yeah, Leslie I Mean I think a lot of this just points back to the theme that we've had throughout the

01:28:47.281 --> 01:28:54.899
- conversations that we don't have enough hands during these situations to To help clear all of this snow

01:28:54.899 --> 01:29:02.663
- in you know to help each of these departments in their specific assigned areas So I don't have a solution

01:29:02.663 --> 01:29:09.182
- I'm just saying I think that's one area that we need to focus on and is how can we get a

01:29:09.506 --> 01:29:16.040
- more, whether it is temp help, more departmental pitch in, whatever that might look like. I think that's

01:29:16.040 --> 01:29:22.822
- something that is probably going to have to be on the top of the list in order to get any of these solutions

01:29:22.822 --> 01:29:29.169
- that we come up with handled. I wanted to clarify. Are we just talking about solutions for transit at

01:29:29.169 --> 01:29:35.765
- this point? No, really any of the things we've been talking about. OK. Going back to what we were talking

01:29:35.765 --> 01:29:37.694
- about regarding the alleyways,

01:29:38.274 --> 01:29:44.688
- live in a complex where our garbage is in the alleyway and many complexes are like that and when we

01:29:44.688 --> 01:29:51.359
- had the snow last winter our trash was completely blocked and nobody wanted to clear it because there's

01:29:51.359 --> 01:29:57.902
- multiple buildings along that alleyway and when I called my landlord to say what do I do because it's

01:29:57.902 --> 01:30:04.894
- actually written into our leases that if we don't take our trash out our leases can be violated they told me

01:30:06.018 --> 01:30:12.949
- You need to either ask a neighbor or get a caregiver, because we don't have a solution. And unfortunately,

01:30:12.949 --> 01:30:19.426
- for many people with disabilities like myself, we don't have caregivers and family members. And you

01:30:19.426 --> 01:30:25.968
- may have a neighbor willing to help you, but not always. So I feel like there needs to be a solution

01:30:25.968 --> 01:30:32.510
- from hand that says, if your complex garbage is in the alleyway, you have a responsibility to shovel

01:30:33.602 --> 01:30:41.055
- Every which way from your complex to at minimum your garbage Mm-hmm to allow for sanitation to continue

01:30:41.055 --> 01:30:48.294
- Can I ask a clarifying question? Is it do you know if it's served by a private sanitation company or

01:30:48.294 --> 01:30:55.747
- the city of Bloomington sanitation? That would necessarily make a difference usually four units or less

01:30:55.747 --> 01:31:01.982
- the city Bloomington five units or more is like a private we'd be grumpy or Okay. Yeah

01:31:02.562 --> 01:31:10.552
- But I feel like that may need to come at a code level to say, in regard to the alleyway discussion,

01:31:10.552 --> 01:31:18.622
- if the garbage for a complex is in the alleyway, then that complex has a responsibility for either a

01:31:18.622 --> 01:31:27.091
- portion or the whole thing. But I feel like that needs to come at a higher level than just the landlords,

01:31:27.091 --> 01:31:30.846
- because they're not doing anything. Thank you.

01:31:31.330 --> 01:31:39.138
- I thought Kate and then hope you think Of course, I don't like that. This is a resident responsibility

01:31:39.138 --> 01:31:47.173
- or a property owner responsibility, but I wonder about Sometimes the city gives out helmets for cyclists.

01:31:47.173 --> 01:31:55.133
- I wonder about having snow shovels available that are like Newer useful right ergonomic all those things

01:31:55.133 --> 01:31:59.454
- that could be helpful. I wonder even about piloting some

01:32:00.738 --> 01:32:09.436
- Maybe neighborhood association project with a snow blower for a neighborhood where some kind of like

01:32:09.436 --> 01:32:18.565
- sidewalk size snow blower could in a neighborhood could like run it. I don't know it like for emergencies

01:32:18.565 --> 01:32:27.176
- or for folks who can't get theirs cleared. I don't know if that's my idea. Hopi then Steve then I'd

01:32:27.176 --> 01:32:28.382
- like to take.

01:32:29.186 --> 01:32:36.533
- Okay. Thank you. Kind of going back to what Casey was saying about code changes and also what Isabelle

01:32:36.533 --> 01:32:43.879
- said earlier about. So if an apartment complex like they might be required to shovel the sidewalks but

01:32:43.879 --> 01:32:51.155
- they aren't necessarily required to shovel from you know an individual's door to the parking area for

01:32:51.155 --> 01:32:58.430
- example. And I guess the question would be whether we could put something in code that requires that.

01:32:58.626 --> 01:33:07.408
- It's like whether we could put something in code at all that requires like that access to trash bins

01:33:07.408 --> 01:33:16.452
- I Mean that's like a legal question as to whether whether we can do that but then I also just I I think

01:33:16.452 --> 01:33:25.234
- that we really need to reassess our fee structure and assess I Guess just every part of it including

01:33:25.234 --> 01:33:27.582
- how much the fines are and

01:33:27.682 --> 01:33:35.195
- whether it's the same for everybody or whether it's different, how can we differentiate commercial complexes

01:33:35.195 --> 01:33:42.363
- from single-family residents from apartment complexes? I feel like those are three different categories

01:33:42.363 --> 01:33:49.531
- in terms of businesses, and then two categories of where people live, and then a category of businesses

01:33:49.531 --> 01:33:56.286
- where people work, where people shop, and that those might all need to be a little bit different.

01:33:56.386 --> 01:34:08.233
- And yeah, I guess that's the piece that I'm in terms of solutioning. I think that we just need to make

01:34:08.233 --> 01:34:11.454
- code a little bit stronger.

01:34:12.642 --> 01:34:18.778
- And I mean, you have kind of the question of the efficacy of fines and whether fines do anything. I

01:34:18.778 --> 01:34:25.159
- think that fines do do something if they're high enough, especially for commercial entities. It really,

01:34:25.159 --> 01:34:31.357
- really bothers me on the east side, the College Mall Road, which is the mall on one side and lots of

01:34:31.357 --> 01:34:37.984
- other businesses on the other side. And it's practically the last to get done. And those are all commercial

01:34:37.984 --> 01:34:40.254
- entities, pretty much, and it should

01:34:40.642 --> 01:34:48.538
- Not take that long for those folks to do that year after year after year Steve I think it was interesting

01:34:48.538 --> 01:34:56.211
- what New York City did this year where they threw money at the problem They basically said we're gonna

01:34:56.211 --> 01:35:03.884
- we're gonna commit to clearing all the streets. They hired people to to shovel I wonder if there isn't

01:35:03.884 --> 01:35:09.918
- a solution that involves adjusting the the fine structure to be more Appropriate

01:35:10.178 --> 01:35:22.251
- with respect to the density of people who are being served and Once we know that we can recover some

01:35:22.251 --> 01:35:34.683
- greater fines from greater Enforcement Also hire people to shovel neighborhoods shovel curb cuts shovel

01:35:34.683 --> 01:35:35.998
- trails and

01:35:36.642 --> 01:35:43.836
- And let's find out how much it actually costs to get the level of service that we expect and then recover

01:35:43.836 --> 01:35:51.031
- some of that cost from the fines that It would certainly teach people to go and clean their own Sidewalks

01:35:51.031 --> 01:35:58.090
- if they got hit with a big fine because we had to hire people to shovel their sidewalk for them I don't

01:35:58.090 --> 01:36:05.148
- know how they did it. I don't know the details of it. I just know that it was big news in New York City

01:36:05.148 --> 01:36:06.302
- this winter Yeah

01:36:06.690 --> 01:36:13.121
- I asked Michael Shermuss about the Snow Buddies program and how it's going when he was at the Transportation

01:36:13.121 --> 01:36:19.138
- Commission. And he mentioned, I think, maybe a total of 30 volunteers and that it was less about kind

01:36:19.138 --> 01:36:25.274
- of neighbor to neighbor. And those kind of things are probably happening more informally and more about

01:36:25.274 --> 01:36:31.232
- people just volunteering to help with some issues, curb ramps in particular. He mentioned they would

01:36:31.232 --> 01:36:36.542
- work on and plus probably being deployed in some instances for assistance to a particular

01:36:37.122 --> 01:36:43.023
- household. But just to say that this is we're not going to volunteer. I understand. Yeah. No, I'm just

01:36:43.023 --> 01:36:49.038
- sharing that that's where that kind of is currently. I wonder about leveraging neighborhood associations

01:36:49.038 --> 01:36:54.824
- the way Kate was talking about to you, even if whether volunteer or pay, you know, basically working

01:36:54.824 --> 01:37:00.553
- with the neighborhood associations to make sure they all have like communication on this and a plan

01:37:00.553 --> 01:37:05.022
- in place. Are they helping to get the information out about responsibilities?

01:37:05.186 --> 01:37:11.138
- As part of that, are they asking neighbors to help ask about and help their neighbors and identify if

01:37:11.138 --> 01:37:17.032
- there's folks in their neighborhood that they can take care of who need it and volunteers within the

01:37:17.032 --> 01:37:22.868
- neighborhood unit? That'd be a really good way to leverage that infrastructure. The one other thing

01:37:22.868 --> 01:37:28.820
- I wanted to highlight is, yeah, trying to really zero in on like, I agree with Kate that I'm not wild

01:37:28.820 --> 01:37:34.014
- about the fact that we treat what is ostensibly the highest priority transportation mode

01:37:34.594 --> 01:37:40.271
- and kind of the lowest level priority with respect to this issue. But that's probably a question of

01:37:40.271 --> 01:37:46.345
- political will to like make that shift. And there are some places, I think Bloomington, Minnesota actually

01:37:46.345 --> 01:37:52.135
- clears all or most sidewalks, the city itself. I know Syracuse was doing a pilot in like the downtown

01:37:52.135 --> 01:37:57.925
- where they were like having responses. So there are versions of this out there. That's usually places

01:37:57.925 --> 01:38:02.750
- with more snow actually than what we get because that's more predictable in a sense.

01:38:02.978 --> 01:38:09.247
- I don't think we're probably there. And the question is, like, what can we do that is most impactful

01:38:09.247 --> 01:38:15.702
- at, like, least cost, maybe? And I think, like, equipment needs or equipment sharing has come up, like,

01:38:15.702 --> 01:38:21.970
- trying to clarify, like, what are the equipment barriers that Adam is facing in public works? And if

01:38:21.970 --> 01:38:28.177
- HAN is going to continue, you know, leading on enforcement, it seemed like there were software kind

01:38:28.177 --> 01:38:30.846
- of challenges there that Anna was raising.

01:38:31.106 --> 01:38:36.923
- And that they were switching back and forth between Paper, you know citations and trying to look up

01:38:36.923 --> 01:38:42.857
- property owners Like that all seems like it there's an integrated software solution to some kind like

01:38:42.857 --> 01:38:48.732
- they shouldn't be like looking up Property owners on the fly. So those kind of targeted intervention

01:38:48.732 --> 01:38:52.862
- interventions and I think that could extend to you know paid folks for

01:38:53.250 --> 01:38:59.874
- Shovelling to instead of relying pure van volunteers. I Wonder too about the gig economy in this where

01:38:59.874 --> 01:39:06.306
- it's almost like an uber app because it is so Urgent and you know, what if it's the thing where you

01:39:06.306 --> 01:39:12.738
- get on there and you're like, I need it shoveled I'll pay this much right now, you know and I don't

01:39:12.738 --> 01:39:18.526
- know if there is an app like that that exists like neighborhood help and things but um, I

01:39:19.682 --> 01:39:26.862
- We're right. It's just people kind of negotiating on their own about what they might pay. You might

01:39:26.862 --> 01:39:34.329
- go out and do it like I would go shovel a little bit to branch off of your comment. The difficulty with

01:39:34.329 --> 01:39:41.508
- something like that is that while people can they might be able to pay or Bloomington might be able

01:39:41.508 --> 01:39:43.806
- to develop something like that.

01:39:44.098 --> 01:39:51.068
- For people with disabilities and the elderly, many of them are on fixed incomes, and they can't afford

01:39:51.068 --> 01:39:57.902
- something like that. So you would automatically create an exclusion by doing something like that, by

01:39:57.902 --> 01:40:04.668
- making it a pay for play type of service. Yeah, and I wouldn't mean it as an only solution, just as

01:40:04.668 --> 01:40:11.638
- can some people take part in that? I mean, I obviously think this should be a city service for all the

01:40:11.638 --> 01:40:12.382
- sidewalks.

01:40:12.834 --> 01:40:21.670
- It could be a solution potentially to free up resources, but you'd have to be careful not to make it

01:40:21.670 --> 01:40:30.769
- the only solution because you would create exclusion Right right now The only solutions we have Besides

01:40:30.769 --> 01:40:39.868
- what city staff can do are volunteer solutions. I'd rather see snow buddies helping people in need than

01:40:39.868 --> 01:40:40.830
- people who

01:40:41.314 --> 01:40:49.517
- than just sort of random sections of the city. We could concentrate those volunteer resources for people

01:40:49.517 --> 01:40:57.876
- who need it, but people who are property owners who can afford to pay the fine and who should be attending

01:40:57.876 --> 01:41:06.782
- to this responsibility. We don't need to have a single solution for everybody. We can have multifaceted solution.

01:41:10.370 --> 01:41:16.662
- I just wanted to highlight what Kate said earlier about the neighborhood associations and and you know

01:41:16.662 --> 01:41:22.832
- there's our small and simple grants that neighborhood associations take advantage of and maybe there

01:41:22.832 --> 01:41:29.368
- could literally be like a snowblower grant and I'm pretty sure I'm remembering right that there's somebody

01:41:29.368 --> 01:41:33.950
- in Park Ridge East who likes his snowblower so much that he snow blows all

01:41:34.114 --> 01:41:45.705
- like a whole bunch of sidewalk for people there. I have to say I enjoy shoveling snow a couple times

01:41:45.705 --> 01:41:57.182
- a year. My spouse actually went and shoveled several cars out of a nearby senior living complex for

01:41:57.314 --> 01:42:05.223
- Random people this during the storm just for exercise and fun. So there are people that would Use that

01:42:05.223 --> 01:42:13.440
- snowblower and would very much enjoy you could get a whole network probably people who would enjoy running

01:42:13.440 --> 01:42:21.195
- the snowblower and that if we had some kind of neighborhood grant related to that then that could at

01:42:21.195 --> 01:42:23.422
- least you know, take care of

01:42:23.554 --> 01:42:30.479
- Certain places and especially some of those really high traffic like high pedestrian traffic sorts of

01:42:30.479 --> 01:42:37.743
- places and maybe depending on where it is you can even incorporate that into into some bus stops depending

01:42:37.743 --> 01:42:44.803
- on where Those snowblowers were kept and where the bus stops are There is an app for that an app called

01:42:44.803 --> 01:42:51.592
- shoveler the app that removes snow you can become a shoveler or request a shoveler for your home or

01:42:51.592 --> 01:42:53.086
- your business or your

01:42:53.410 --> 01:43:00.888
- I don't know. I think there's a combination of solutions here. What I'd really like to see is a move

01:43:00.888 --> 01:43:08.514
- toward proactive enforcement if not citywide which probably isn't feasible on like the high high entry

01:43:08.514 --> 01:43:15.992
- network in particular and or like downtown kind of overlay. It seems highly feasible. It may well be

01:43:15.992 --> 01:43:22.878
- that parking enforcement actually has very low work volumes during snow events or in a lower

01:43:23.298 --> 01:43:29.740
- And would be able to take some of that on and maybe it's a bifurcated responsibility Maybe hand is doing

01:43:29.740 --> 01:43:35.875
- neighborhood education and citations for the one-off sidewalk gap in a neighborhood that somebody's

01:43:35.875 --> 01:43:42.010
- reporting But you know, there's a core area that's that's delineated. That's different Because yeah

01:43:42.010 --> 01:43:48.574
- It seems that the reactiveness is actually part of the operational challenge that Anna has highlighted the

01:43:48.898 --> 01:43:59.093
- that people are trying to do their regular job, and then they'll have to respond to this thing, and

01:43:59.093 --> 01:44:09.797
- they can't respond quickly enough. Yeah. Yeah, Casey. This isn't actually a solution. This is a question

01:44:09.797 --> 01:44:15.710
- from earlier. Who is responsible for areas in Bloomington

01:44:16.002 --> 01:44:22.657
- that are under construction when it snows. For example, the Hopewell neighborhood and Second Street,

01:44:22.657 --> 01:44:29.246
- because this last winter I actually got stuck there for about 30 minutes because it wasn't shoveled

01:44:29.246 --> 01:44:36.098
- and the police ended up having to come get me. It's the property owner. So it's the city of Bloomington

01:44:36.098 --> 01:44:42.885
- in that case. But that points to RDC. I think in particular we've identified as maybe having some gaps

01:44:42.885 --> 01:44:45.982
- in compliance. But yeah. And one of the things

01:44:46.658 --> 01:44:54.849
- One solution I think the city needs to kind of think about is in snow events how to handle older sidewalks

01:44:54.849 --> 01:45:02.963
- because for example 2nd Street it's not just the sidewalk it's quite old and because it's being developed

01:45:02.963 --> 01:45:10.848
- a lot of the maintenance of it has kind of come to a point of well we'll get to it when we redo it all

01:45:10.848 --> 01:45:13.374
- and the difficulty especially on

01:45:13.858 --> 01:45:22.240
- second in some areas is that there are some curb cuts that are little more curb than cut and They don't

01:45:22.240 --> 01:45:30.540
- go straight ahead They go to an angle. Yeah, and that angle goes into traffic So I feel like with curb

01:45:30.540 --> 01:45:38.680
- cuts when it snows It's not just about clearing them but also marking where are they because when we

01:45:38.680 --> 01:45:43.838
- get deep snow and the snow starts to pile the level of the snow

01:45:44.354 --> 01:45:52.150
- And the level of the curb can become even, and you can't see where the cut is. And when you have a curb

01:45:52.150 --> 01:45:59.721
- cut, like on some of the second street ones that go at an angle, you don't want to miss the curb cut

01:45:59.721 --> 01:46:07.517
- and be thrown into traffic. So I think it's not just about clearing the curb cuts, but making sure that

01:46:07.517 --> 01:46:10.590
- it's clear where are they when it snows.

01:46:11.170 --> 01:46:18.744
- It reminds me to talk about this issue like it might be a code thing to to clarify responsibilities

01:46:18.744 --> 01:46:26.394
- that extend to you know to the street or like like all the way to the street edge or whatever right.

01:46:26.394 --> 01:46:34.347
- But it's not if you're if you're on a if you're on adjacent to an alley or a street. So it would include

01:46:34.347 --> 01:46:35.710
- the alley I mean.

01:46:35.938 --> 01:46:45.969
- No, not include the alley. That's that is a separate issue But like I think some people are carrying

01:46:45.969 --> 01:46:56.397
- sidewalks like to the corner, but like not the ramp part going to the street By Kate's vote and no other

01:46:56.397 --> 01:47:05.534
- objections. I just We are in this the workshop of specific issues section of the agenda and

01:47:05.698 --> 01:47:12.983
- And we're treating that list of 11 or so things as ideation here. And we're in those categories, including

01:47:12.983 --> 01:47:20.131
- the other. Well, this would be under the topic of city and property, I guess. And that would be an unmet

01:47:20.131 --> 01:47:27.008
- need, it seems to me, is accessibility to parking meters. So not only if you park a car, you need at

01:47:27.008 --> 01:47:34.020
- least some access to the sidewalk. Say, picture the square. I need to get to the sidewalk. And there's

01:47:34.020 --> 01:47:35.518
- usually a barrier of,

01:47:35.746 --> 01:47:42.753
- maybe a snow bag that I have to navigate. And there's no way to get there. It takes me into traffic.

01:47:42.753 --> 01:47:49.691
- And then I've got to feed the meter. And that's not always. Maybe in the square, you can reach over

01:47:49.691 --> 01:47:56.629
- to it. But I've been on, I don't know. I wonder if the microphones are catching what you're saying,

01:47:56.629 --> 01:48:02.942
- Dave, because you're so far away. I'm just concerned about people on cats not hearing you.

01:48:06.050 --> 01:48:17.502
- I'm gonna point to you in a moment. So the point is accessibility to parking meters and In some cases

01:48:17.502 --> 01:48:28.730
- I've had to walk into like a snowbank in order to feed a meter and I imagine everyone else is doing

01:48:28.730 --> 01:48:30.302
- that too Wait

01:48:31.266 --> 01:48:40.380
- Well, I find it's your responsibility so The parking services division did commission a Study on parking

01:48:40.380 --> 01:48:49.408
- the first one since 2018 Just came in. We've just issued comments on it. It's about to come to the City

01:48:49.408 --> 01:48:59.390
- Council within I don't know probably before the break and one of the strong recommendations in it something that I

01:48:59.810 --> 01:49:06.938
- I know parking services has wanted for a long time The elimination of single-space meters that they're

01:49:06.938 --> 01:49:14.273
- expensive. They're hard to maintain I suspect that I mean acknowledging everything you said and I pointed

01:49:14.273 --> 01:49:21.746
- out earlier I think that when the meters get so full of snow, we need to find out exactly what the protocol

01:49:21.746 --> 01:49:28.666
- is for enforcement officers Do they bother to enforce when nobody can get to the meter? but it will

01:49:28.666 --> 01:49:29.566
- be easier to

01:49:29.826 --> 01:49:36.506
- prevent snow from blocking meters if we go to meters that are for a half block or a full block where

01:49:36.506 --> 01:49:43.319
- you have to go to the meter to pay and then maybe put a piece of paper in your window or you give your

01:49:43.319 --> 01:49:50.198
- license plate there if there's only one or two meters per block, it'll be much easier to Clear the snow

01:49:50.198 --> 01:49:56.813
- around it and it make them accessible It doesn't really address I mean because right now the meters

01:49:56.813 --> 01:49:59.326
- are sort of in the right of way where

01:49:59.522 --> 01:50:08.206
- Public Works deposits the snow, right? They're shoveling the snow into the meters. So if there's only

01:50:08.206 --> 01:50:17.145
- one or two Multi-space meters per block that should Eliminate one small part of this this large problem.

01:50:17.145 --> 01:50:24.126
- I'm certainly going to recommend that they go to that kind of meeting Sounds good

01:50:25.026 --> 01:50:35.460
- Are the parking spaces labeled so I can You know well enough say that it it's making us to know exceed

01:50:35.460 --> 01:50:45.691
- the scope of I can see yeah, but I'm just no no, no, there's there's pay by space and there's pay by

01:50:45.691 --> 01:50:54.302
- plate and if you can I mean park park mobile the app expects you to have a place and

01:50:54.434 --> 01:51:00.526
- then it doesn't matter that you're at a particular meter or space. So let's move on to just a brief

01:51:00.526 --> 01:51:06.740
- touching base on next steps. I've taken notes and documented questions that folks have for follow-up.

01:51:06.740 --> 01:51:12.892
- I anticipate probably having a conversation with the various department heads and also probably John

01:51:12.892 --> 01:51:18.984
- Connell or someone from Bloomington Transit to talk a little bit more about exploring some of these

01:51:18.984 --> 01:51:23.614
- concepts. I think at minimum, the council's purview clearly extends to code

01:51:23.842 --> 01:51:29.772
- and looking at potential adjustment to the fine schedule and some of the details around that. I think

01:51:29.772 --> 01:51:35.701
- there's also probably some budgetary implications. Pedestrian accessibility and safety in the context

01:51:35.701 --> 01:51:41.573
- of snow events need enter our budget priorities document this year. So it shouldn't be a surprise if

01:51:41.573 --> 01:51:47.386
- we're coming with some specific ideas in that vein. And then probably some of the operational stuff

01:51:47.386 --> 01:51:52.734
- might be more about clarifying things, identifying opportunities through that conversation.

01:51:52.930 --> 01:51:58.955
- where there might be some gaps like like Kate you Brought up the one around like if the width of the

01:51:58.955 --> 01:52:04.920
- beeline right-of-way is 20 feet wide in some areas But we're only clearing the 12 feet of path that

01:52:04.920 --> 01:52:11.004
- maybe that is an operational change for parks to you know and so identifying some of those things and

01:52:11.004 --> 01:52:17.148
- then some of the processes that might support it so, you know the sidewalk operations plan or you know

01:52:17.148 --> 01:52:20.190
- the reporting processes and things like that, so I

01:52:21.250 --> 01:52:27.769
- I plan to work on those things. I would welcome a colleague or two or three, whoever sub-quorum amounts

01:52:27.769 --> 01:52:34.288
- would make it easiest and most feasible to be able to meet with staff with ease and that kind of thing.

01:52:34.288 --> 01:52:40.556
- Are there others who are interested in working on next steps at some level? Hopi? I'm interested in

01:52:40.556 --> 01:52:47.388
- working on the code change stuff. I think I mentioned that to you and kind of exploring different potentials

01:52:47.388 --> 01:52:48.830
- for the fee structure.

01:52:49.794 --> 01:52:56.541
- and I guess just the I don't know how much we can how much procedure we want to code but Yeah, well

01:52:56.541 --> 01:53:03.693
- hand is specifically called out and we could explore other options if there's gonna be enforcement beyond

01:53:03.693 --> 01:53:10.710
- that others interested in yeah I think the CCA would definitely want to be looped in on to that I don't

01:53:10.710 --> 01:53:17.593
- know if I myself would be able to do it, but I know others would be interested. Yeah, great Yeah, no,

01:53:17.593 --> 01:53:18.942
- definitely any like

01:53:19.106 --> 01:53:27.117
- policy change and that kind of thing would be I think done in conjunction with Transformation Commission

01:53:27.117 --> 01:53:34.822
- CCA That when you say When everyone's saying feet is that we really mean fine when we say feet here?

01:53:34.822 --> 01:53:42.756
- Yeah Yeah, fine schedule. Did I say feet is generally what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you're planning

01:53:42.756 --> 01:53:48.478
- to do it. So we should call it fine I'm interested I'm super interested in

01:53:48.578 --> 01:53:56.407
- getting sidewalks cleared. So as in like not as much of the fine situation, but the actual getting the

01:53:56.407 --> 01:54:04.312
- snow off of them. So it'd be additional. If we're getting so big about the help, you know, or the input

01:54:04.312 --> 01:54:12.141
- in the work. Yeah. We hope he seems to be very interested in the fine situation. And that's great. And

01:54:12.141 --> 01:54:18.526
- I think it's service too. And I feel interested in the snow blower situation. Sure.

01:54:18.626 --> 01:54:25.203
- Yes. Yeah. And I want to clarify that part of part of my motivation for that is I do think that the

01:54:25.203 --> 01:54:32.109
- fines can be effective especially for commercial entities. And so that's my interest in increasing fines

01:54:32.109 --> 01:54:39.212
- and changing fine structures especially as it relates to commercial interests just so that any constituents

01:54:39.212 --> 01:54:45.986
- out there don't get like oh my gosh that council member Stossberg wants to know. It's about businesses

01:54:45.986 --> 01:54:48.222
- that should be doing this anyway.

01:54:48.322 --> 01:54:56.303
- Well, this goes to Andy's question, I mean The whole purpose behind Parking fees is to get compliance

01:54:56.303 --> 01:55:04.440
- not to necessarily make money for the city But it pays for the service of providing parking in the same

01:55:04.440 --> 01:55:12.264
- way whether it's a fee beforehand or a fine after the goal is compliance and I think that what Hopi

01:55:12.264 --> 01:55:16.254
- and Kate are saying are kind of the same thing and

01:55:16.386 --> 01:55:22.957
- You're not looking to charge fines for the sake of it. You're looking for it so that you can get streets

01:55:22.957 --> 01:55:29.278
- cleared. That's what any kind of fine structure should be about. I don't think we should go to a fee

01:55:29.278 --> 01:55:35.724
- structure where we charge people in advance for it. So I appreciate that you made the distinction. But

01:55:35.724 --> 01:55:42.108
- in theory it's possible we do that already with other services in the city. Parking being the primary

01:55:42.108 --> 01:55:46.238
- example. So I'm hearing Hopi Kate some interest in collaboration.

01:55:46.594 --> 01:55:52.752
- Forward I would anticipate reporting back and periodically to the council on progress and some of this

01:55:52.752 --> 01:55:58.791
- too Anybody else want to be looped in on particular aspects of this going forward beyond that? Nope,

01:55:58.791 --> 01:56:04.770
- okay I'll be happy to help if you want to plug me in where needed Okay, I don't have a specific but

01:56:04.770 --> 01:56:10.868
- if you're like, hey, we could use a hand here. Yeah, sure. Give me a call. Great. Thank you With that

01:56:10.868 --> 01:56:14.814
- maybe we can move on to a final round of public comment about the

01:56:14.978 --> 01:56:20.829
- overall process, next steps here, et cetera. At least we have one member of the public in chambers.

01:56:20.829 --> 01:56:26.855
- If you would like to comment, no comments, okay. Anyone online who would like to comment? No comments.

01:56:26.855 --> 01:56:32.823
- All right. Anything else, any final clarifying questions? Yeah, Steve. What's your timeline? How soon

01:56:32.823 --> 01:56:38.966
- do you want to see a change in policy? A year or six months? I think things with budget, for this coming

01:56:38.966 --> 01:56:43.998
- season, for this coming winter season. So I think we should aim to have code changes,

01:56:44.546 --> 01:56:52.028
- any potential of our operational updates and reporting on that and any budget requests obviously obviously

01:56:52.028 --> 01:56:59.021
- for this budget cycle. So it'll probably be iterative but all those things have to make progress on

01:56:59.021 --> 01:57:06.643
- this year. Is there one particular staff member or department who would coordinate a response from inquiries

01:57:06.643 --> 01:57:09.790
- from counsel or in other words if the if the

01:57:10.114 --> 01:57:16.263
- The transportation mission took it up as an inquiry. We'd involve planning and transportation

01:57:16.263 --> 01:57:22.869
- and engineering, but we might be repeating work that somebody else is already doing. Yeah, you know,

01:57:22.869 --> 01:57:29.541
- potentially Hank Duncan, the pedestrian and bicycle coordinator, is a suitable position to kind of be

01:57:29.541 --> 01:57:36.343
- in a convening role, planning department generally. Maybe also look Ryan Roebling. I don't know. Public

01:57:36.343 --> 01:57:39.614
- Works does a lot of this, obviously, on the city.

01:57:39.714 --> 01:57:46.752
- But it's just multifaceted. There's multiple departments involved Right. That's why I asked you So I

01:57:46.752 --> 01:57:53.860
- think we've named the right people for the most part and they identified a few more transit Yeah, I'm

01:57:53.860 --> 01:58:01.316
- sure we can get ITS involved somehow. Yeah Well, I did reach out about the data Analysis from you reports.

01:58:01.316 --> 01:58:08.702
- That's something we should probably be leveraging a whole lot more than we do HR. Yep All right with that

01:58:09.026 --> 01:58:15.876
- Thank you all for your ideation and thoughtfulness. I think we are adjourned. I think Courtney has to

01:58:15.876 --> 01:58:22.591
- adjourn us. Oh, we just offered it. Yeah, we did. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. That's OK. Yeah, there was

01:58:22.591 --> 01:58:29.306
- no one. I think Courtney has to adjourn us, though. Oh, yeah. I'll turn it back to the chair of the

01:58:29.306 --> 01:58:33.470
- meeting to adjourn us properly. Meeting adjourned. Thank you.