- Good evening, welcome to tonight's deliberation session for May 13th. Clerk, would you mind please calling
- the roll when you have a moment? Don't rush, don't trip. Council Member Flaherty? Here. Stasberg? Here.
- Piedmont-Smith? Here. Zulek is absent. Asari? Absent. Okay. Daly? Here.
- Ruff here Rosenberger here. Thank you. Oh awesome. Thank you very much. Forgot that I was the one who
- had started it. OK. So we are here tonight for a special deliberation session and it was organized by
- council member Flaherty. So I'm just going to turn the whole evening on over to council member Flaherty
- to guide us through our discussion for tonight. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. And I can summarize the
- agenda to start. So.
- We have a focus topic for the evening which is identifying opportunities to improve pedestrian safety
- and accessibility following snow events and a structure to kind of guide that conversation. Go starting
- with a review of city goals and policies that are relevant moving to discussion of constituent feedback
- and an invitation for public comment about people's personal experiences at that time. Then a discussion
- of departmental feedback and then some discussion of
- essentially potential policy or potential interventions, some framing for that as well as workshopping
- specific issues. Finally, prioritization of next steps from here from both the process and substance
- perspective and public comment and then adjournment. And I will kind of, I guess, moderate and facilitate
- the conversation is my plan. Just a few other preliminary things. Maybe, first of all,
- Let the other folks joining us tonight introduce themselves as we have three other invited members of
- for the conversation So we could go ahead and do that I am the director of Parks and Recreation for
- the city Casey Garino member of the Council for Community Accessibility Steve Olin the chair of the
- Transportation Commission and So that's who we have with us this evening
- My apologies for some late breaking packet addendums yesterday and then today. I had gotten some questions
- to relevant department heads, including Director Street and Hand Public Works and planning a couple
- of weeks ago, but between PTO schedules and a few other things, we were still getting answers incoming,
- so sorry for the late breaking information there.
- Folks from all those departments were invited to attend, but in the context of that, a few weeks ago,
- the mayor expressed some concern about staff time having been spent at council meetings in the context
- of the Hopewell PUD and indicated folks probably would not be attending. So in any case, we welcome
- Director Street with us and understand that others have been at a lot of evening meetings and aren't
- here tonight.
- With that, maybe one other, well two other things. One, are folks okay using, do we want to use first
- names tonight? Are folks okay, like comfortable with that in particular, given that it's not just council?
- Hearing no objections, okay great, we can do that. And then second, I just wanted to kind of like outline
- my high level purpose outcome process as we kick off. So the purpose is really just to deepen our own
- understanding of the issues with pedestrian safety and accessibility.
- in the context of snow removal, what's going well, where are we most challenged, are there opportunities
- for improvement. The outcomes would be to try to actually improve efficacy of snow removal through targeted
- policy, budgetary, operational changes. And the process is through this discussion and then collaboration
- with staff to come probably. So we can talk about that kind of in the closing sections of the meeting,
- what we envision as next steps, who would like to take lead, that kind of thing.
- I remain committed to working on this going forward, but if others want to join on that, both from the
- council and otherwise, we can talk about it. So, any questions before we kind of move into the heart
- of the agenda? The body of it? Okay, great. So, I'd like to just start with kind of going over high-level
- city goals and policies. The packet, the initial packet that came out had a relevant section of Bloomington
- Municipal Code,
- And then also I did a review of our kind of guiding documents from a planning perspective. Mainly it's
- the comprehensive plan that has relevant guidance here in the transportation chapter. Most of those
- goals mention improving sustainability and access. So goal 6.2 with public transit for instance talks
- about improving and expanding an accessible system. Goal 6.3 improving the bicycle and pedestrian network
- talks about
- improving and expanding an accessible, safe, and efficient network for pedestrians. We have a goal around
- prioritizing non-automotive modes in the transportation network. And so kind of those are the overall
- themes in the comprehensive plan. The transportation plan does not mention, or only mentions twice,
- snow and it's not in this context, so not a relevant piece of the transportation plan. And then Safeties
- for All action plan similarly does not mention snow or snow removal.
- The final policy document I'd like to mention is actually the draft 2026 ADA transition plan developed
- by CCA and Michael Shermas, staff support for CCA, presented to the Transportation Commission just last
- month. This topic wasn't really covered in that plan either, though it was acknowledged there's a challenge.
- There is a relevant bit of that plan though, which is about the Snow Buddies program that has been running
- I think for a couple of years now, where residents who would struggle to clear
- snow from their own sidewalks can get connected with volunteers who would help to clear that snow, and
- that there are other volunteers to address other issues like curb ramp snow clearance. Those are the
- policy documents. Before we move on to city code and that, any questions just about, again, the context
- where we are now with respect to guiding policy, things I missed? All good? Okay, sorry, we're just
- in level setting mode a little bit.
- So second is the Bloomington Municipal Code, Chapter 6, Section 7, snow and ice removal, which is really
- pretty brief. There's kind of two sections. One is about the duty of the abutting property owner. So
- property owners are responsible for removing all snow and ice from the sidewalk to allow safe and reasonable
- travel. And the responsibility is to clear that within 24 hours after the snow or ice has stopped accumulating.
- There is generally a requirement for 36 inches of clearance and 54 inches in the downtown area And then
- the second part is about enforcement which is Predominantly it's in hand the housing neighborhood development
- department leads enforcement. It is I think predominantly done through Kind of like a complaint based
- or reactive enforcement protocol and defines our
- They begin at $50 for repeated infractions over time. They can escalate to 100 and then 150 as a maximum.
- And they reset after a 12-month period running August 1 to July 31. So if you're a repeat offender year
- after year, you're not penalized for that. You're starting fresh each year. I won't get into some of
- the operational details on that because that was covered in the hand director's comments in response
- to questions.
- That's the state of the policy. So any questions about that, about what's in code, what the requirements
- are, whose responsibility is what. This applies to the city government as well. So city departments
- and entities are responsible for snow clearance for the properties that we own, for instance. Same with
- other governmental units, but as well.
- Good question Do you happen to know I do not happen to know that's a that's a good question Do you happen
- to know Steve, I see it we do not have jurisdiction over are you? They are a separate state entity.
- They've made it very clear the city has the right of with the 10th Street, for example at Eagleson the
- city has Responsibility for the right of way right up to the curb, but IU controls the curb and then
- some so they are entirely responsible
- sidewalks within the jurisdiction that they call campus not every building they own is on campus, but
- We've never had jurisdiction over them. We can ask them nicely, but I mean I'll note that for also for
- just confirming and clarification with with staff If you news to me, let's put it that way What's interesting
- is that a lot of the streets that run through campus our city streets they are
- But here, we're not talking about city responsibility for the sidewalks on the streets. Well, again,
- in this case, at that corner, for example, I've seen the actual property lines. IU controls right up
- to the curb. And so the sidewalk is not in our jurisdiction. It varies, because I'm aware of counter
- examples. It's not everywhere. But that's common. Yes. OK, thank you. Other questions, comments about?
- City code and what's actually required of folks? If anybody knows of other cities if any of any cities
- where the city takes responsibility for some are all of sidewalks Very expensive for a city to do that,
- but I wonder if there are any examples out there There are some Maybe we get into that though in the
- kind of workshopping issues and like the discussion
- Like like pork shopping solutions kind of thing Yes, okay Next then we can move into discussion
- of constituent feedback and so here We could maybe actually just start with council members sharing
- if you have received feedback from constituents this year or over your years of service
- What type of feedback that has been? Do folks have ideas? What challenges are they experiencing? So
- I wanted an opportunity for council members to share feedback from constituents. I think, Steve, that
- could also apply to you as a former council member and a transportation commission member. Casey, same
- thing with respect to any complaints the CCA might receive or items for discussion that you have about
- kind of a resident experience around safety and accessibility.
- So maybe we start there, and then I want to talk a little bit about the quite extensive data we have
- from you reports that also help us understand this, and then also have an opportunity for public comment
- specific to this, like what issues people are experiencing themselves. So yeah, Dave. Somebody probably
- will bring this up inevitably, but I get complaints quite often about, especially where people have
- monolithic sidewalks
- That is, you know, they meet the street at the curb so there's no grass plot. That when a plow comes
- by, it pushes the snow back on the sidewalk where they've already, you know, so it's a constant struggle.
- And they feel defeated by the city coming by, especially during large snow events. And I know just from
- experience in some states, some municipalities, they have different types of equipment where
- It's more like a snowblower type of equipment where they actually lift the snow and put it into a truck
- side. That's a lot of expense. But just to have that in mind when we replace equipment, it might be
- a good direction to go in just to alleviate, I think, this chronic problem. Because it's a shame if
- you get it
- You've made the effort, and yet you get cited. Now, I don't know if that's the case. In fact, I don't
- even know the citation rate if we actually enforce this. This is a question I've gotten. People are
- curious, too. To what extent? I'm having to walk in the street. I don't have a clear sidewalk. Are people
- actually getting cited for not doing their obligation of clearing the sidewalk?
- Those are two things obviously but just wanted to put it out there those things. Thank you.
- Helping sure. So I guess I'll I'll some things the constituents have said to me this year are I've got some
- Some suggestions you can say about what we can do. They questioned whether we should increase fines
- because only having a fine of $50 so that even if somebody gets fined, they wouldn't necessarily get
- it a second time. And so then that's $50, and especially a commercial outfit that's cheaper to pay the
- fine than it is to hire somebody to actually do the work.
- That's like absolutely facts. It's definitely cheaper to pay the fine than to hire somebody to do the
- work and So I they found that very problematic and similarly problematic The process of giving a warning
- first before the fine and how that resets every year and especially for commercial frequent offenders that
- the suggestion that maybe it shouldn't reset every year because it is frequently the same people over
- and over and over, or the same companies over and over and over, who never deal with their snow. And
- personally, I also see that happening. And it was especially, I think that there are some places that
- have done a lot better this last year. I know the administration and the departments have been working hard
- Advertising making sure people are aware of their responsibility. And so I've definitely seen
- some improvements but it's still kind of like scattershot in terms of I mean If if everybody has done
- their sidewalk except for one person then it still ends up being a blockage being a problem and Yeah
- I would say in general one of my constituents Complaints about just how dangerous it dangerous it is
- and way more dangerous than Walking on a sidewalk regularly which can also be a little dangerous Just
- the idea that it pushes pedestrians into the streets and that's very scary because the streets are also
- normally smaller width lanes and then the Maybe it's just the curb ramp is what it's called. But I
- I don't know like I don't necessarily think residents are aware that that might be their Piece of the
- sidewalk to cover so even if or to plow shovel so even if they clear it to the plows are a problem on
- regular streets at all intersections and those tend to stick around way longer even after a sidewalk
- is cleared and then I would say I have a neighbor that plows a pedestrian area that is
- Abuts a private lot that gets plowed and that private lot Then puts all of it shovels plows all of its
- snow into our pedestrian Connection to the beeline. So there's a problem with like where private or
- commercial properties are putting their snow that has Those is an obstacle for pedestrians. Oh I'm sorry
- Casey. Yeah, you're right
- I just wanted to say first that's called a curb cut But one piece of feedback that I've gotten from
- other CCA members I'm not able to drive but many of them do and they drive accessible vehicles and one
- of the difficulties especially in city lots is that the city will clear the lot and they put the snow
- in the handicap parking because it's at the back and
- Usually but the problem is that in these lots I believe under the ADA It is that for every 12 regular
- spots you have 180 a spot and or either 180 a spot or one van spot. I have to look that up but essentially
- there's way more regular spots yet somehow the snow always ends up in the accessible ones and those
- are already extremely limited and
- So I feel like we need to come up with a different solution for that. And also on the street when because
- they often push the snow into the parking that the accessible parking is prioritized to be cleared before
- the regular parking because again there's a lot less of it. But that's one of the comments that I've
- received. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Steve it does seem like.
- There's, I mean, we've also seen this issue with frequent critic of public works when a new building
- is being built and they don't make room for a sidewalk or they let the construction take up the sidewalk.
- It seems like the priority is the accessibility of snowplows rather than the accessibility of everybody
- else. In other words, we'll only see the snowplow that is
- Easiest for the snowplow to push and whatever snowplow we have that's that's how the the roads get cleared
- and certainly there's no thought about Prioritizing sidewalks at the same level as as streets So, I
- mean I think who was it who said earlier? Maybe it was Dave who said But when we've replaced equipment
- we should be thinking about a diff a wider variety of tools than just The big old truck that we can
- move the most snow with
- Because they're moving. They don't prioritize handicapped spaces. They should be covering up the non-disabled
- spaces in a parking lot. So even there, their thoughts are what's easiest for my truck to do. Other?
- Yeah, please. I just wanted to add, I forgot to mention bus stops. Because one of the other things was
- if somebody usually bicycles or walks,
- After a snowy event, especially a major one often than looking for a different transportation solution
- but the bus stops also become completely inaccessible and I'm not sure that there's any solution for
- that at all. That's been tried I'm not sure that BT is is thinking about ways to like shovel out their
- their bus stops or in terms of
- I'm like I'm not sure who who would who would be responsible for that If if the stop say is in front
- of an apartment complex, you know the apartment complex maybe they're supposed to do the sidewalk but
- then the bus stop is here and then there's the little like little sidewalk that that Goes to it goes
- to the street for you know people to actually get on the bus So I don't know who is responsible for
- that technically and
- But I don't think anybody's doing Here's one more thing that I know that people have a question about
- which is when are they obligated to start shoveling this is within 24 hours of the last snowfall, but
- because The snow can keep falling it can be unpredictable and there's no clear signal the city for example
- does trick-or-treat hours they announce when it's safe to go out maybe if there was some
- Signal I mean we we know that the the plow drives are out there. They have a protocol for tackling the
- snow maybe You know the city could could announce some kind of a Time by which you're supposed to like
- based on the weather make it official so that people are more likely to to start shoveling Thank you
- any other thoughts from like things
- that we've all heard from constituents our constituency about challenges anything from the parks Casey
- please go ahead. I wanted to ask who is responsible for the sidewalks that branch off of the beeline
- for example at college and third and Madison at third because often these branch shops are not touched
- and there are businesses along there. But I know at Madison and third the business that's there is abandoned.
- And when I contacted the realtor for the building he said oh I contacted the owner but the owner didn't
- really care. And these are these pathways are how people pedestrians and people with disabilities get
- up to the line. So who is responsible for those.
- Good question. The adjacent property owner, typically, so third in college, there's a building owned
- by the city redevelopment commission and by the capital improvement board or county, maybe county government
- convention center. Yeah, exactly. And so those are both public entities at that particular place. But
- sometimes, just related, I've also observed and had constituents report to me.
- Sometimes there seems to be a kind of figuratively last mile but in reality like last 10 feet kind of
- gap where like This happened at first Street in the beeline this year and maybe some other beeline crossings
- as well. We're like The property owner on I think you know Whoever was doing it on first both east and
- west of the beeline on the south side of the street did like those sidewalks were cleared but they stopped
- about five or ten feet short of the beeline the beeline was cleared and
- But then there's just this gap people are trudging through. So that's kind of related to something that
- Kate brought up, too, about people not knowing quite where their responsibility ends, quote unquote.
- And even, I mean, that's a question maybe that you could opine on, Tim, and any other feedback you all
- have heard. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, the last year, well, both of the last years we've had very extreme
- winter weather for us in terms of would we have 15 inches in a couple days this past year, I think,
- and subsequent storms and about the same the year before. So it's very hard to know what to prepare
- for in Indiana. Are we going to get a year where we have two inches of light slush for the whole winter,
- or are we going to get what we've had the last two years where not only does it snow heavily, but the
- temp drops?
- And if removal isn't done quickly, that stuff hardens into something very difficult to remove, which
- I think has been the situation both of the last years. I will try to focus mostly on parks, but I might
- have conversations about all of this as well with Director Wason and others as we talk about this and
- strategy in the winter. Obviously, the U reports start flying.
- As soon as the snow starts flying practically and as you mentioned I know hand is very complaint driven
- and how they can respond and figuring out that clock as Steve said I think is something that's kind
- of tricky to say exactly when did it stop snowing. We positive feedback that we received from residents
- is about you know getting trails and we prioritize the main trails first facility access and then
- Secondary trails like going around Brian Park things like that The nice thing about plowing those trails
- is we're plowing those with specialty smaller equipment and you're not Generally competing with what
- is happening on the road, you know, so the road gets plowed it pushes it up onto the monolithic sidewalks
- The beeline at least we can provide a really good transportation Avenue for a lot of people Without
- competing with road snow coming back in and I think what may happen in a lot of those places that you're
- talking about the last ten feet
- Just the order of operations right like every time someone goes back through and does something It pushes
- it opposite 90 degrees To where the path was before right? So it's kind of a constant that competition
- but Ongoing saga of you know, maybe we clear the beeline and it's looking really good and then roads
- get plowed again And then all of a sudden all of the road access curb cuts etc get
- covered up with the layer of slush again, or it melts and refreezes across it. So it's just, I think
- it'll be hard to find a perfect solution. I think looking for ways to do things better is really admirable,
- and we can engage with that. But there's always going to be a little bit of battling with the order
- of operations and how to get it just right with every storm being so unique and different too.
- Thank you. And I'll also echo that positive feedback I've heard from constituents with the beeline in
- particular and the prominence with which that gets cleared.
- Dave I was just looking at the municipal code six point zero seven point zero one zero and it starts
- by saying that it's the duty of every owner of any premises of a sidewalk to remove the snow but all
- of the snow from the sidewalk and I just wondered is that something that I mean is there the discretion
- of the enforcement person to you know I mean it's
- pretty rare that you see all the snow removed from a sidewalk in its entirety, however important that
- would be for accessibility. I mean, could you comment on that? Is this something that we need to refine
- in some way? I mean, on the one hand, I want it to be accessible for everybody. And you've got people
- that need to pass each other, especially. And then you've got people with accessibility.
- Issues and things like that and but yet is it practical? I mean, I don't know is it what what's your
- experience too? I was thinking about that as we looked at the code to the you know It says I think generally
- 36 inches is the width at which you should have it, right? But in the downtown, it's it's 54 and I don't
- know if that's defined to being Was was that just curb cuts or 54 or was that everything was 54? It's
- it's everything everything. Yeah the so I'm something to consider there too. Maybe how quickly
- you know, do you get to that full 54? Because when you get that 11 to 15 inches, which is, again, I
- don't expect that we're going to get that every year, but who knows with the way our weather patterns
- go, you very quickly run out of places to physically put the snow. And that's why this past year they
- had to come into the square and downtown and things like that and mobilize. I know CBU actually mobilized
- equipment this past year to come and take and load snow and take it away.
- Because unlike an East Coast city, we don't have a melter. They have those rolling dumpsters that you
- can melt the snow in and stuff like that. So they used front loaders or something? They did. They used
- front loaders in this past storm. But obviously, that took time to come in, because there was just too
- much snow everywhere. And there's only limited places to put it. So that ended up being a mitigation
- effort. But I know that took days.
- of CBU being out there and helping out and loading that snow out. But it took time. OK, so we're getting
- into some questions around kind of departmental operations and some of the feedback we got
- there, particularly with enforcement, which we'll get to with a hand. So maybe it's a good time to move
- beyond kind of our experience of constitutional feedback to two other items here. One I wanted to share,
- which is really just the packet addendum that came out this evening for folks' review.
- exported the 404 U reports in the category sidewalk snow removal for winter of this year and just ran
- it through an AI assistant to analyze the data and report on trends. So that is in the packet. I think
- it largely aligns with what we're hearing. I'm not gonna cover that at a high level or in detail rather,
- but y'all can look at that. I think I did ask it to identify kind of opportunities and what's going
- well and you know the positives in this.
- And so it has some of that framing in terms of what we can leverage that's successful. But yeah, the
- issues are the ones we've talked about. Transit access or bus stop access is a big one. Intersections
- in particular has a challenge. And snow banks blocking access, uneven enforcement. And some of this
- is, you know, this is residents reporting, so it's a kind of perception thing.
- So concerns about lack of enforcement, uneven enforcement, complaints that have been made and still
- sidewalks not being clear. So this kind of chronic non-compliance type of issue. Folks raising major
- pedestrian corridors in areas around schools as particular issues.
- So yeah, that's worth a browse if you hadn't already because it helps synthesize a pretty extensive
- amount of user experience data that we have that might further help inform some opportunities
- for improvements as well as what's going best. So the other thing I wanted to invite here is just if
- we have any public comment either online or here in chambers about people's personal experience as a
- pedestrian or in the pedestrian context with snow
- Removal so that could be about your own responsibility to clear snow from a property. It could be about
- You know your your Experience moving through the city as a pedestrian whatever else comes to mind So
- with that we could open it up for a short public comment on this particular topic of people's experience
- With pedestrian safety and accessibility snow removals. Do we have anybody in chambers that wants to
- comment on that? Please go ahead and walk up to the table and
- Oh, yeah, yeah the tables the tables great. I think we should probably have sign in so if you if you
- want to just sign in on the podium there then Cap that at three minutes and I Timer introduce yourself
- and then go ahead. Thank you My name is James Ford and you've already talked on about a bunch of this
- things I wanted to hear about but there's a couple things you didn't mention the alleys in my neighborhood
- are an issue because
- They don't typically get plowed, but the sidewalks will stop at an alley, and the next sidewalk will
- start at an alley. And if the people are being responsible by shoveling their own sidewalks, they're
- not shoveling the alley, and the alley's not being plowed. So even if the street's plowed and the alley's
- not, there's a big mound of snow right in the middle between the intersections. And typically, the alleys
- are not ADA compliant anyway, and there's awful crumbling
- Sidewalkers crumbling asphalt there. So I would like somebody to at least think about alleys as An issue
- for people who are having who have difficulty Getting around There is one issue about I think it was
- just touched on by mr. Rollo There's an old property owner in our neighborhood who has built in his
- lease that says the tenants are responsible for the snow removal not sometimes tenants are
- young people who've never shoveled snow before and tell them, oh, you need to shovel your snow and I'm
- not going to even give you a shovel, then they don't get shoveled. And then who gets fined? Do you find
- the student who didn't do their shoveling or do you find the owner? So I think that maybe there should
- be some sort of prescription against forcing the tenants to be the shovelers and that it should be the
- responsibility of the property owner.
- We do have repeat offenders that rely on the fact that their first warning every year is not going to
- be a fine and so then they just don't do it that first time and then there's the Repeat offenders who
- will shovel a single shovel width down and it's hard to even with one person to To get down that little
- path One side thing
- I think it would be, I think HAND is awfully busy and it would be helpful for them if they would have
- a person who was maybe a coordinator of volunteers for the neighborhoods so that if each neighborhood
- had a volunteer who could report to the volunteer coordinator, say this is an issue, this is an issue,
- rather than having to send HAND employees out to the neighborhoods, they could just be having somebody
- in HAND office receiving information from a neighborhood volunteer saying,
- We've got a big problem here, or we're OK here. Thank you. Thank you so much. Do we have anybody online
- who would like to comment? No? All right, thank you. And here in chambers? I think we have the sign-in
- sheet at the table now, so you can just go ahead and. Hello. You'll have three minutes once you're ready
- to check. Yes, I'm Zach Ammerman. I wanted to comment basically anecdotally. I live in an apartment building.
- This man is by one of the largest apartment owners in the city and they never came at all during the
- major snowstorm I went out and shoveled like a a makeshift path just so I could get out with my dog
- and went around it I personally shoveled all the way around two buildings that have four units each
- Shoveled a passage to have a makeshift path for people and nobody ever came from the apartment building
- despite his calling and asking and I understand they're busy because it's a crazy snowstorm, but I think
- that is representative of a large
- Number of things happening in the city of large apartment units are just eating the fine Because it's
- a $50 fine for property. I think that's not sufficient It needs to be I would really like for you guys
- if you can to look at enforcement Particularly for apartment buildings. It should be a fine per unit.
- It should escalate faster for apartment buildings and HOA is for example, too And it should be higher
- for apartment buildings That's the main thing. I really think we there's an easy way to do that. So
- you're not hitting single-family residents that hard
- But you're getting enforcement. I think that would have a lot of bang for its buck, basically. Yeah,
- so that's all I have to say. Thanks. Thank you so much. Anyone else here in the chambers want to comment
- on their experience with... We'll be back in a moment, Casey, for... Or if you want to... If there's
- others, you can... Oh, yeah. Go ahead, please. If you'd like to sign in, you'll have three minutes.
- Yeah, on the topic of snow. You know, I plowed snow for 37 years at the street department. And man,
- it's a no-win situation. Every snow is different. Every year is different. And them guys do a great
- job. And they really put their heart and they risk their lives when they get them trucks. Right. They
- risk their lives. And I appreciate it. I've been retired for four years. And that last snow, we got
- the one that had like 15 or 18 inches. That was incredible. I went out with my rubber boots, and it
- was all the way to the top.
- Them guys gotta be tough. Them guys are bad ass. Excuse my language. Right, okay. But they're really
- good guys. But I wanna bring something else up too. I don't know if it's proper time or place,
- but you know, a virtual tour. I was coming down Adams Street yesterday. Of course, you know, virtual.
- And I turned on 6th Street. And boy, by the time I knew it, there was a police officer behind me.
- come out of nowhere. I thought, OK, cool. And they come up the alley. They come up the alley and got
- right behind me, lights flashing. I said, oh boy, OK, I kind of knew what I'd done. I kind of knew what
- I'd done. And she was really cool. She was very understanding. Could have wrote me a couple of big,
- fat tickets, but didn't.
- Her officer asked a Bella. I asked him a while ago who she was. He told me about good, but I really
- appreciated that them to kind of police officers we need that gives you a break because I don't want
- to go to Don's insurance next week and say, Hey, how much are you? And he gets him tickets. I get them
- tickets. My insurance will go sky high, but she didn't give me one. And I greatly appreciate that man.
- But I really had plans on coming here tonight and complaining about a few things. But I'm going to wait
- for another time, or it's time and place for everything. But I really want to compliment the police
- for giving me a break, man. I appreciate it. And God bless America. OK, thank you. Thank you for your
- comments and for your recognition of staff and their hard work. No problem. Any other public comment
- online? OK.
- I think that would conclude then this portion of kind of feedback. So the next part of the agenda is
- really kind of talking about the feedback from departments. Tried to tailor some questions to Parks,
- Public Works, Hand, and Planning that were unique to their purview and responsibility. Maybe we actually
- just want to start with Parks, and I don't have to cover it since we have Tim here with us. So maybe
- you just want to kind of give an overview
- You know Your feedback that you shared with me and the parks responsibility and kind of what's going
- well where you see opportunities for improvement And then we have any questions folks have sure Hopefully
- I remember I would just say in terms of parks what we are responsible for is Primarily our facilities
- so oftentimes we're having to make a call about our
- facilities being open or closed things like the Twin Lakes rec center other places that people go to
- recreate or have events and Then we have sort of a priority list that we hit during a snow event Typically
- when we get an inch or more is when we activate if it's less than an inch We don't necessarily do a
- full activation of our snow removal protocol the beeline is sort of the
- The champion priority of all the priorities that we have just because it is such, you know, a recreation
- and transportation artery for the city. And because if we get that plowed, then that can provide a safe
- alternative to example, you know, college and Walnut sidewalks, which are going to deal with monolithic
- snow getting pushed up issues and provide that basically same north south access.
- From there, it's about other parks properties, starting again with access to the property is the priority.
- And then we work our way in, starting with more major trails, including secondary trails. Jackson Creek
- Trail, Clear Creek Trail, Polly Grimshaw Trail is another one that is important for transportation as
- well, especially to campus from the east side. So those are sort of the secondary priorities. Rail trail.
- really plow because it's soft surface. This time we actually did end up doing a little bit to it just
- to make it lower and a little more attainable to people, but it is not always plowed. Things that are
- going well, yeah, I think we have overall a good understanding, a good system with public works. I saw
- some questions about multi-use trails versus paths, and I think Adam summed it up well. He said,
- The public may not always understand where the responsibilities start and end between public works and
- parks. We typically do And that is that public works is generally responsible for multi-use paths the
- definition being a path goes along a road When we do the trails which the trails are generally not along
- a road they go separate from a road so that's generally our area of just delineation I think
- Yeah, as we mentioned, we've heard a lot of positive feedback about the beeline, about in general this
- past storm. I also just heard a lot of positive feedback from residents in general about how appreciative
- they were of having clear places to take their dogs to walk and to get to the grocery store or a crover
- on the beeline, for example. Things like that and just how important it was to have in the midst of
- a lot of uncertainty and
- You know, maybe my neighbors have plowed their sidewalk. Maybe there's a missing section in my neighborhood
- I can get all the way there except for this one house that hasn't done it To have the reliability of
- some of the the trail and access options. I think is going well Challenges again. Yeah, just the the
- mixed nature of it from time to time that it's I think it's right that it's never the same twice Questions
- for yeah Kate and then Steve
- I was looking at the GIS. A beeline question. I do think it is awesome that the beeline gets nowadays.
- So the priority of it, I think I'm appreciative of that. If property lines, do you as parks do the sidewalks
- that are part of the beeline property itself? Because the park is like probably
- I don't know what that might be 10 10 feet on both sides of the beeline and because who would be responsible
- for that actually That's a great question. Yeah, that gets at kind of what I think you were talking
- about that last five to ten feet I'd actually need to check in with our There's more or less two people
- that end up being responsible for the beeline snow removal up and down That would be a good point that
- I could follow up and clarify with
- I was going to ask, how does Parks track how much plowing is done? Do you have real-time info? Do plowers
- report to you what they did? How quickly do you get that kind of data back if you track it at all? Not
- very officially. Basically, we know, and I think I kind of said some napkin math is,
- You know, we have about 20 union employees in our operations division and a couple others in other divisions
- who, when we get a major snowfall event, it's their day, right? And maybe their day and more if we're
- getting into overtime. When we get into overtime, we can track that pretty easily, overtime related
- to snow removal events. So no, we haven't really done a concerted effort to track specific hours.
- The reason I ask is because in both your case and Public Works' case, if you could track, you know,
- segments that are cleared, it would be the beginning of a modest database that would allow us to expand
- over time if we knew how much, you know, 20 union people could do in one day if we, you know, we get
- a baseline sense of it.
- And I don't want to create an excessive burden of work. But if you know you're clearing the Polygram
- Shaw trail from x point to y point, and that's a standard thing that somebody does, they can report
- in that they've done that. And we can get a sense of what the city is currently capable of. And that
- will allow us to measure what public works can do and then what maybe we can
- You know, I just, there's no data. And that data of hours spent doesn't really help. We need to kind
- of know how linear fee cleared. And so I didn't know how much of a burden that would be, do you think,
- for your staff to, is there a way to operationalize that? Yeah, there may be through something like
- City Works where
- I haven't really thought about this too much. I'd have to check with the GIS department. But some GIS
- tracking or things like that, we use that in other applications. For example, weed wrangles and pesticide
- application will do GIS tracks. So there may be a way we could do some similar GIS tracking for snow
- removal. Also, are all the vehicles that are used to move snow, are they four wheeled? Are there any
- hand plows?
- What's the diversity that you use to clear? For the parks department, it's everything from full size
- pickup trucks with blades, some UTVs that have different attachments, either a snow pusher or there's
- one that's a broom for when it's like a lighter, fluffy snow, down to hand shoveling, down to snow blowers,
- and a few other things in between I'm not thinking of probably.
- Feel like this is the kind of thing that would be the subject of a Transportation Commission inquiry
- that where we don't know anything enough and we don't even know whether to Recommend a resolution at
- the Commission. We were looking for So it'd be interesting to for us to work with you to see if we can
- find a system that doesn't put you all out while Thanks Other questions here be back for time good about
- Yeah, I think that my my question is kind of on the vein of what Steve was just asking about is I mean
- the question was how long does it take for you to clear, which of course I mean it depends on the snowfall
- and I mean you said like it takes you know your 20 workers like a day but like say if we get you know
- six inches of snow.
- how long does it take for you to clear all of the things that you're responsible for clearing? Is that
- a single day of work? Is that a day and a half? Do you just have them work overtime until they're done?
- If this happens on a Saturday, do you call folks in on Sunday in order to get that done in terms of,
- yeah, and it's kind of a similar question, I guess, but it's also that idea of,
- how much different departments can help each other, because how much you can help each other sort of
- depends on how long it takes you to do the things that you're actually responsible for. And I think
- one of the challenges there is what you've hit on is what's the nature of it? Is it five wet inches?
- Is it five dry inches? Is it to the point where we say, there's so much snow, go out and do your first
- pass, at least get a first pass in, understanding
- we're adjusting the quality of the job based on the quantity of the snow sometimes, right? Like it's
- still coming down, we're gonna go hit a first pass, we're gonna have to do it again later, we're gonna
- make it better, but at least there's a first pass in. So hard to answer, but I do think there might
- be some applications of GIS where we could just start a track and get a little bit of interesting data.
- In terms of how it's written in code with the requirement of the removal within 24 hours after
- the snow stops falling. Is that accessible for your department to do? I would say many snowstorms, yes.
- But for example, and I think same thing for Public Works, this 15-inch snowstorm last time, no. Within
- 24 hours, could we get everything 54 inches? Could we do all of that? For the reasons we talked about
- before, no. Just because there was so much snow being pushed around and limited places to put it.
- And just a finite amount of labor and over time to to commit towards it that it just necessarily took
- more time to get to the final standards that we wanted. OK. I have a question that isn't directly for
- parks but you might know which is I was asked about public works if they were responsible for like all
- city owned properties besides parks properties. The answer was no. And so parks does parks facilities
- public works does public works facilities.
- There are other city entities like the Redevelopment Commission or just others that have property, CBU.
- So every department is essentially responsible for its own snow removal. And did they all do that in-house
- or some contract for it? Do you know that? I believe CBU takes care of their own for their facilities.
- I feel pretty confident about that. I don't know about the RDC.
- Believe there may be precedent for some contractual removal at RDC But I'm not positive and I would
- defer that back to Anna or to Adam to give a definitive answer That's when we had a gap at least one
- gap with the college square property this last cycle So it's helpful to know that that's not public
- works responsibility and that's like maybe it's a ball that's gotten dropped with RDC Other questions
- or feedback for for Tim Casey, please You mentioned
- The issue with shoveling 36 inches versus 54 and how long does that take depending on the amount of
- snowfall. I'm wondering if it might be beneficial to the city to build a sort of policy that says within
- X amount of 24 hours or 48 hours of a snowfall, it needs to be at 36 inches. And then at 72 to 96 hours,
- we go to maybe 45 inches.
- And then further out, we go to the 454 in order to give the city time to deal with the amount of snow,
- but still keep it safe for the pedestrians. I think that sounds very reasonable. I think the challenge
- is just always going to be putting a specific time limit not knowing what the conditions are and knowing that I
- I think all departments I know public works, they get after it. They do everything they can to get it
- clear, including the Brighton VTown crew that does the downtown ramps. And we collaborate and try to
- help out. And across departments, we'll see something that needs to be done. We'll try to help. But
- I just don't know how you could get a sort of time limit that would work across the board. I guess that's
- the challenge with private enforcement too, right?
- Maybe that is a good lead in to hand as the next part we'll talk about because it gets into the enforcement
- context. It seems like some discretion is necessary around that type of thing, but it's a little bit
- tricky to spell it out. So we still need standards that are kind of the default, but then some ability
- to have some discretion around enforcement. Interestingly, so the questions that Director Killian Hanson answered
- She mentioned, I think, a process of issuing warnings first, which is actually not what's in code. Code
- says if we determine there's a violation, the person shall issue a notice of violation. And so I actually
- don't think that discretion that's being exercised currently is in code. But I think some kind of discretion
- is probably warranted. But there's also an appeals process that's defined in code, which we didn't talk
- about earlier, though it's quite
- quick turnaround, like seven days, you have to notify the Board of Public Works in writing that you're
- appealing, which might be a little onerous. But yeah, so hand. The overall theme was that enforcement
- is a real challenge for the Housing and Neighborhood Development Department. That ranges from staffing.
- The folks who do the apartment inspections and certification are the folks who are doing the enforcement on
- failure to remove snow from sidewalks. So they're already kind of like overworked and limited in their
- ability to get to it. There are operational challenges around like the time it takes. She mentioned
- the 24-hour window thing and when to start enforcing is kind of like a barrier. They're getting a lot
- of complaints. They can't do anything about them yet. That often snow is melting before they get around
- issuing a citation, things like that.
- She did note that there were 275 complaints and 307 citations, which I was a little surprised to hear.
- I just assumed there would be fewer citations relative to the complaints. I did identify 400 plus complaints
- in the snow removal category for this past winter, so I'm not sure what the source of discrepancy is
- there, but those were sort of the major themes, at least that I read in the answers from
- from hand, do folks have questions that we want to, I kind of anticipate having follow up conversation
- with the department heads, and so do folks have questions they are still seeking answers to or reactions
- or feedback to ideas that were spurred by what the department heads shared, so a hand in this case?
- Steve? What was, Dave and Andy, what was the term for when we wanted apartment buildings to not
- One hookup but a hookup for every unit. What was that? Yeah, what was that what the word for that Concurrency
- is that it was it called do we call it concurrency where the point was just that what the gentleman
- said about a
- Billing, finding per unit as opposed to, or at least per linear foot. Per linear foot, yeah. Yeah, that
- is a loophole. It's a big loophole. And that any new policy ought to address density. You know, at the
- very least, I mean, for a larger property that has more linear feet, that maybe ought to be a concern.
- the number of people crossing on a side like that. But for an apartment building, that's a reasonable
- thing that I think that ought to make its way into a new policy. The other thing is just even more now,
- I feel like, especially if it's somebody in parks. I don't know if there's a meteorologist on your staff
- or anybody who tracks. But if there was an official city announcement of how much snow was falling,
- I think there's more than one class of snowfall.
- Uh, but like, you know, at three inches or below, it's this kind of fine. And at six inches or below,
- it's this kind of fine. Or, uh, if, uh, uh, if the temperature goes above 32 degrees, uh, for, uh, we
- have to find some way to classify the amount of snow that's fallen. That's practical, but that, uh,
- recognizes that not all snow is the same.
- You know maybe we don't need to worry if it's less than an inch. Maybe we need to give people more time
- if it's more than a foot stuff like that. Those are just some thoughts that are coming to me. I think
- that the commission the transmission commission would take it. We'll have a great interest in helping
- research this issue and working with planning and park staff to and public works to
- deliberate over this if if the council wants it. Other questions or reactions to the hand. Yeah as well
- then I'll be well first of all just to clarify. So for an apartment building the limit to municipal
- code only applies to the sidewalk in front of the building the public right of way so not
- There's no unfortunate mechanism if they don't clear their parking lot, unfortunately. Another point
- I wanted to bring up is according to the numbers that Anna Kelly Hansen provided, where there was 370
- citations and what was it?
- Or escalating fines we did have snow that stuck around for weeks and if people don't Aren't responsive.
- I'm a little unclear about that. That's something to clarify So I guess I would like to know if there
- is any proactive monitor, you know Maybe large properties sidewalks are clear downtown. I don't know
- Hopi Yeah, thank you. So one of the things that I wondered when I read this and it actually related
- also to something that I
- one of the members of the public said about the rental properties and who's responsible for snow removal.
- And my thought honestly was that we should just always make the owner responsible in terms of the fine
- and that it's their responsibility that if they expect their tenant to that they're going to pass that
- fine on to their tenant if their tenant doesn't do what it is that's in their lease agreement.
- So maybe putting that specifically into code could help relieve that lack of clarity for hand in terms
- of issuing those citations. So that was one of the things that I wondered. I also wondered, so this
- was a question maybe that you can, I think you're writing down questions for department, that's great.
- Whether there, that,
- Handbeam proactively monitoring forecasted storm systems and then rescheduling inspections And so I
- was wondering if that change and monitoring resulted in more ticketing More compliance generally whether
- there were whether they managed to issue more fines. I'm definitely interested in that question that
- Is belt brought up in terms of what does that? 370 mean is that 370 $50 fines like did we actually
- Was there any revenue generated from fines specifically related to snow removal and I would similarly
- be interested in terms of How much we charge for that? I mean there is staff time associated with having
- to go out and Ticket and wanting to make sure that our fines are
- Appropriate for the staff time that gets used and I'm not quite sure how long that fine of $50 has been
- there But I think it's been a really long time. Yeah, and there have been lots of increases in all sorts
- of Things including staff Salaries, so I think that it's really appropriate to increase that and then
- my last thought was wondering is
- Whether city staff from outside of the hand department whether they could be trained to help hand during
- these especially large events of Addressing the you reports writing citations like like checking to
- verify especially thinking about some of our staff members who are already out in those whether so it's
- not like a member of the hand department is having to drive over somewhere when
- You know, maybe a police officer who's already, you know going through that neighborhood can Drive by
- and take a quick photo and send it or sanitation Parking enforcement parking enforcement like I think
- that they're it just kind of brainstorming to wonder whether there are other ways that we could utilize
- other departments to support hand in some of that even
- Even like plow drivers because they're out especially with the large events like this time. I mean they
- went over and over and over to improve things and whether Those staff members could ever be utilized
- in any way to support the hand department Steve It would also be interesting to find out the protocol
- the parking enforcement uses when there's snow on the ground at a certain point they can't enforce the
- meters because they can't be seen and
- Or they can't be accessed So it would be interesting to find out what they know But I absolutely want
- to chime in on the idea that when they can't enforce meters They can and should be right helping moose
- know or at least identifying how it's being done That was promising
- Tim I'll just throw out one as I've been thinking about timing of storms and severity of storms one
- metric that might be available Out there that you could look at tying something to is the travel advisory
- status Because that is something that is subjective but is set at certain times And could also dictate
- what level of staff response is even appropriate at a given time based on the severity of the storm
- and the travel status
- Yeah. Kate and then as well. I was wondering about a couple of things. One how we have that reset every
- year that you can get a warning and let's question the warning. But for other infractions or citations
- we sometimes do a three year. So would we want some a longer period. You know we have
- I think with the conditional duplexes right now, if you have any citations or infractions for the last
- three years also, you can't build a conditional duplex. And I don't know if we would want to look at
- putting something like this in that list of if you don't clear sidewalks, then you will be added to
- this list, and you cannot participate like everyone else kind of thing. Because I think it is that big
- of a deal that we need our sidewalks cleared, you know?
- Another one I thought of is not using other hand staff but honestly doing like a temp agency for snow
- events because it is so random and temp agencies do that like emergency staffing where either for citations
- or I mean I was really wondering too if there's any way to do a citation slash a removal service that
- then they get
- billed for the snow removal off of their sidewalk. I don't know if you heard that, but just because
- a citation doesn't fix the problem that people can't get through in the snow that I consider like an
- urgent emergency. Like if sidewalks aren't accessible, like right, them getting a $50 fine or $150 fine
- doesn't really, it does not fix the problem. And I think too about
- it's such a wacky thing that that snow events happen and that even like property owners can normally
- clear it but they might be on vacation right and they might not have a backup and I'm not saying they
- shouldn't but it's like they might have just been like I never thought about hiring someone you know
- like someone's checking my mail but I didn't think about like snow removal and it's just like there's
- just so much to consider and then if someone gets cited while they are out of town they might not do
- anything about it and so then people can't
- can't get through still. So I would love to even look at a fee for service if you don't get it done
- yourself. We are doing it, and we're charging you. Isabel, and then we should move on. Also,
- just a reminder, we do have a section about solutions. So this is a little bit more about questions
- for hand and clarifying anything from them. But we'll talk about specific issues and potential solutions
- too. It's all good.
- Well, in Adam Wayson's replies, the Public Works Department did a pilot where they cleared snow off
- of some sidewalks downtown. And I think he said they were having a hard time even finding private contractors
- to do that work. So it may not.
- Maybe this will spur entrepreneurship, I don't know. But if we're going to move to billing people for
- actual snow removal, then we need to look at how much snow removal capacity our community has. But I
- was actually going to say, I would want to ask Hand and people who do the enforcement what they would
- think about
- Well, maybe it's not actually for them to decide. Probably for us to decide. But I'm contemplating a
- distinction in fine structure between either between a single house, whether it's rental or owned, and
- commercial property, which would include permanent buildings, businesses, et cetera, car dealerships,
- et cetera.
- make the fine based on linear feet of sidewalk. I mean, it's a huge difference if I don't clear in front
- of my little 50 foot right of way in front of my house, or the Ford dealership on South Walnut, which
- is a quarter of a mile long, doesn't clear their sidewalk. So I think we need to think about
- some distinctions there.
- Inevitably with this is a little bit I was just noting that we do have an official agenda portions Maybe
- we move into public works just by way of summary Is there a final thing on hand? Yeah, it's actually
- kind of a question also from a constituent who mentioned the idea of neighborhood volunteers to help
- do the reporting and I'm wondering if that would be at all practical because then I mean I think in
- some ways it might make it easier if there's a single point of contact and
- Opposed to you know, lots of people Okay, thank you so public works some just by way of summary They
- spend quite quite a lot and so we're generally a lot on equipment or materials looked like 700k plus
- we they do have plus We do have 50k that they have used to pilot some things and they did a pedestrian
- or sorry, monolithic sidewalks on College Walnut Corridor between First Street and Winslow, including
- carrying snow away. That might have also applied to the downtown curb ramps that the DPW Brighton Bloomington
- crews worked on. So those were kind of some of the pilot things. Those might have both been covered.
- It seemed to me like the College Walnut Corridor one was maybe not worth the effort. It was very difficult.
- And that actually probably isn't, like it was hard for them to be effective. They were like repeatedly
- hauling snow away.
- It was a lot of money out of a small area that actually probably doesn't have relative like very high
- pedestrian use and so I'm curious about like It is a monolithic sidewalk issue But like might we be
- better served by like having them just target curb ramps and like the high pedestrian use areas Or something
- like that. So that was an interesting report. I kind of like how it's going Clarifying clarifying that
- multi-use paths and and probably
- works facilities are what they clear. They feel clear on responsibilities in city parks, maybe less
- so that confident that residents are clear. Just anecdotally, an example I'll share. I know New Hope
- families, like the multi-use path in front of their building along Patterson there, their portion was
- cleared. I'm guessing they did that because the other portions of the multi-use path were not cleared
- for the entire duration of the previous snowstorm. So it seems like maybe that was a gap
- what was on Public Works radar, but then also residents maybe not being sure about whether they had
- to clear or not. And so it does seem like there's some ambiguities there to resolve. Adam highlighted
- just how hard the folks on street work, that they feel good about their activation and their responsibilities
- generally. Noted they have challenges with equipment, especially with relation to protective bike lanes.
- I don't know, I'd be curious, Tim, if they
- Share equipment at all if they have any equipment that is like yours for smaller Flick spaces like protective
- bike lanes, which are having more of over time He also mentioned challenges with curb ramps model sidewalks,
- of course Willing vendors for contracted services And also the quality of their own facilities relative
- to the you know long hours worked so Maybe I'll start with you too. I do not know the answer to like
- what smaller equipment they're actually using on like
- Seven line for example. Yeah, I'm not sure okay Is that something that I know that in inner department
- kind of like agreements around stuff like exceed my understanding but is that something where like Sharing
- equipment across departments is is viable or is that something else? Yes. Yeah, I mean just potentially
- based on What it's being used for and it's it's home department, right? But no, we we do share stuff
- back and forth frequently Okay as available. Yeah
- Thanks. Other reactions, questions for Public Works? Stacey. Casey, sorry. I'm wondering, you talk about
- the equipment that we have here in Bloomington. Do you ever contact other cities outside of Bloomington
- to borrow equipment in major storm events? We have not, no. Would that be a potential solution? Potential.
- I mean, if you could reach far enough away, I think that the challenge with most snowstorms is that
- they're regional.
- And so most of your regional partners like Columbus has helped us with storms in the past. But if we
- get a snowstorm Columbus probably is too. So I don't know that there's much opportunity there for sharing
- unless you had you really knew there was a big storm coming and were able to have some kind of mutual
- aid agreement with someone far away. Yeah. Could that be something that the city looks into.
- I don't know. I think it's a good question.
- So sharing with IU as another I mean they have loads of non infrastructure that they clear Other reactions
- or additional questions for public works Areas for exploration I have a question that would be do we
- have to clear every lane of
- wide streets like do we need three lanes on walnut during Snow clearing or could some of those resources,
- you know, could we clear one lane on major streets like that? And then those resources be used elsewhere
- I have a question for them about the ability to Basically many of our streets are overbuilt or wider
- than they need to be and is it possible to clear not
- Very close like five feet away from the monolithic sidewalk. So you're in a book with it Basically a
- pile of snow in the street, but nevertheless, you know enough room for cars to go That's a question
- I have Would it be possible with the Clearing of the sidewalks to potentially use bike lanes because
- not many people are biking in them
- Well, some people are still trying, but as far as putting the snow, like storing the snow there? Not
- necessarily storing it there, but if we're in the process of moving it out and we need to temporarily
- put it there while we're getting equipment, could that be a workable solution? I think it's what's happening
- now with maybe the exception of protected bike lanes, which I think they're trying to plow separately.
- But I think in general where we just have striped bike lanes on the street in practice What's getting
- cleared probably mostly is like a drive lane. That's just becomes de facto shared So I think I think
- some of that is happening. I'm not sure it's ideal but other Public works specific thoughts Hopi I guess
- I want to second the confusion about what might be
- as a multi-use path and what might not. There's a link in his report to the GIS snow remediation map,
- but then I have to log in to ArcGIS, and I don't know that I have an Esri account to be able to log
- in and see that. But I guess that would be a question because, I mean, if the sidewalk
- Excuse me is is wider Out front and you think maybe it's a multi-use path or maybe it's not a multi-use
- path like And is there a map somewhere for a resident to be able to see where all the multi-use paths
- are? Mm-hmm
- Good question and for the department and just and or like reporting that is something like if they're
- tracking this already Is it something that could actually be reported on if not to the council maybe
- to the Transportation Commission or something like that? One other thing I will I did speak with Adam
- on the phone earlier today and he also mentioned their kind of sidewalk operations plan In development
- still I think they're still working on some sidewalk
- data things related to maintenance and accessibility gaps. But in his mind, this all kind of factored
- into that. And the Transportation Commission was also a natural partner on that. And to the extent that
- some of the opportunities for improvements might be operational, you know, resident education, reporting,
- things like that, and need not be codified, that their appearance in a plan and their
- you know, I guess, synergy with the Transportation Commission might be a good venue. So just to clarify,
- municipal code only talks about sidewalks, not multi-use paths. That's right. It's a multi-use path
- that's along a street, like Roger Street or Patterson or Grimes, like an extra new hope. They're not
- legally required to clear that. I think the property owner, right? Yeah, I think that's right.
- Well unless the city is in fact doing it all the multi-use pass they're probably easier to plow most
- of them are asphalt not Well, they didn't that might have just been a failure of our own operational
- protocols, but that's a question for clarity Unless there's any last comments on public works. I might
- just open it up for just a minute or two I'm planning a transportation their feedback was quite limited and
- And then maybe we can kind of go into these categories of solutions and talk through things. I'd like
- to keep us to around 830 to finish. Obviously we've been workshopping and getting kind of solutions
- adjacent in some of the conversation already. Planning and transportation doesn't have a lot of direct
- responsibility in this like Parks Hand or Public Works does. Nevertheless, it's where the pedestrian
- and bicycle coordinator position is located. They administer Safe Streets for All and our comprehensive
- plan essentially.
- So the feedback from Director Hittle was, again, relatively limited, kind of noted that some of the
- things he thought were going well was using the high-injury network where we are trying to prioritize
- pedestrian safety in particular as a lens through which to think about the limited public works dollars
- and where those can go for pedestrian routes, monolithic sidewalks as a particular challenge, and just
- expense and logistics.
- I don't think a lot to dig into there. But if people had specific questions for follow-up with planning,
- yeah Well, I guess this goes back to staff coordination because I know that the planning and transportation
- Department also issues certain types of notices of violations depending on what it is like And so I
- wonder if that would be another Good option for a department to help partner with hand During these
- large snow events
- Yeah, it seems like one well-equipped person with the right software could just proactively monitor
- the high injury network and issue citations. Because yeah, right now it feels like we have a scattershot
- kind of reactive approach. Good question. Other planning related observations or questions?
- I was going to point out that planning and transportation and engineering co staff the transportation
- commission. This kind of inquiry would fall under the jurisdiction of planning. So in a way I think
- maybe they're more a department that would help derive the solution as opposed. In other words
- the coordination solution between departments since planning is in their name.
- But it like I wouldn't expect them to try it to do enforcement. I expect them to do to help Coordinate
- a response between departments. So I think they they would be very useful in that respect And they will
- be actively Discussing this issue when we bring it as an inquiry. It'll be part of that discussion.
- I think Tim, do you know of any? what I'm in interdepartmental
- discussion looks like on this particular issue? Is there anything standing or occurring? Yeah. We have
- had periodic check-ins with the GIS team to try to update that map that you're referencing. I was just
- looking for the link. I can't find it at the moment. That has been a typical ongoing thing to just try
- to clarify some of those. Are we covering these things? Is there a gap?
- I'd say that happens probably once a year, but no other I think I think this is the impetus for maybe
- other coordination other than coordination during storms and phone calls and Borrowing and equipment
- and things like that that come up that was discussed Got it. Thank you any final Observations or questions
- for planning before I move on to kind of talking about solutions more Alright, let's do it. So this next
- The topic was really just me framing how I think about this a little bit. We've kind of got policy,
- budget, and operations. And so, revisions to like the fine schedule, right, or responsibilities, those
- might be entering into actual policy, which is kind of squarely our purview, but, you know, to be done
- collaboratively. Budgetary, you know, the dollars we allocate for clearing pedestrian infrastructure,
- addressing specific gaps like
- you know, curb cuts and curb ramps. Staffing, resourcing, right, equipment needs. Director Wason mentioned
- protective bike lanes, struggling with those, other staffing issues. So then operational, that can range
- from, you know, resident community outreach, other things people have been suggesting about how we conduct
- business, how we might collaborate or coordinate. And sometimes things are going to touch on multiple of those.
- We are least probably suited to direct the operational pieces, but I think questions and recommendations
- can help. And so maybe these categories that I outlined are a little arbitrary. Maybe we can spend eight
- or 10 minutes in each. Folks, it was some suggested topics that again surfaced as like these are particular
- issues that have been coming up again and again from resident feedback, and that people have specific
- ideas, potential solutions that they'd like us to look into.
- as we pursue next steps on addressing some of these particular challenges. So in the network accessibility
- category, I listed like monolithic sidewalks, sidewalk clearance gaps, and just the high injury network
- in particular as maybe a focus area. Is this useful? Let me pause actually. Are these categories useful
- for discussing solutions? Do you just wanna treat the whole list here as sort of like a, you know,
- getting the juices flowing, talk about whatever you want for the next period. The latter? Option two.
- OK. Let's do that. Great. So for the bus stops, does Bloomington Transit, could they maybe take some
- responsibility for clearing bus stops? I mean, I know they're not set up for it, but they need to join
- the conversation about that, I think.
- Do they do anything now? I don't even know. Yeah, good question. Yeah, I similarly did you talk to John
- Connell? I did not. The CCA has done a little bit of work with Bloomington Transit and I've had conversations
- with John because we did a presentation for them about people with disabilities in the summer of I believe
- 2025. And one of the things that John said, because I bought up an anecdote about a winter when it had snowed
- I went to somewhere and the bus dropped me, but the sidewalk wasn't cleared and the bus stop wasn't
- cleared. And I asked the driver, where do I go for you to pick me back up? And they said, we can't pick
- you back up because we only pick up at the sidewalks or at the bus stops. And when I brought that up,
- John happened to be in the room. And he brought it up that if a driver pulls up to a stop and it is
- not cleared, they are supposed to radio it in from my understanding.
- And also that if they drop off a person who has disabilities somewhere other than a bus stop, then they
- need to radio that in so that alternative solutions can be made. Because what I ultimately ended up
- having to do was call the transit office and I said, how am I getting home? Because there's no sidewalks
- that connect to this building. Major sidewalks.
- the FSSA building, which is a building that many people with disabilities have to interact with for
- various reasons. And what they ended up having to do was send a BT access to be able to come get me.
- But I'm not a BT access user. Yeah, that's very helpful. And sorry you experienced that, but thank you
- for the information. Yeah, Steve. Her story is literally why you all created
- the makeup of the Transportation Commission. It includes John Connell. Often, his deputy, Shelley Stramitis,
- is there for him, but he literally sits on the commission to address issues exactly like this. I mean,
- so I mean, I am sure that when, if and when we deliberate on it, that would be a good place to do it,
- because he'll be there. Other solutions, ideas?
- Yeah, Leslie I Mean I think a lot of this just points back to the theme that we've had throughout the
- conversations that we don't have enough hands during these situations to To help clear all of this snow
- in you know to help each of these departments in their specific assigned areas So I don't have a solution
- I'm just saying I think that's one area that we need to focus on and is how can we get a
- more, whether it is temp help, more departmental pitch in, whatever that might look like. I think that's
- something that is probably going to have to be on the top of the list in order to get any of these solutions
- that we come up with handled. I wanted to clarify. Are we just talking about solutions for transit at
- this point? No, really any of the things we've been talking about. OK. Going back to what we were talking
- about regarding the alleyways,
- live in a complex where our garbage is in the alleyway and many complexes are like that and when we
- had the snow last winter our trash was completely blocked and nobody wanted to clear it because there's
- multiple buildings along that alleyway and when I called my landlord to say what do I do because it's
- actually written into our leases that if we don't take our trash out our leases can be violated they told me
- You need to either ask a neighbor or get a caregiver, because we don't have a solution. And unfortunately,
- for many people with disabilities like myself, we don't have caregivers and family members. And you
- may have a neighbor willing to help you, but not always. So I feel like there needs to be a solution
- from hand that says, if your complex garbage is in the alleyway, you have a responsibility to shovel
- Every which way from your complex to at minimum your garbage Mm-hmm to allow for sanitation to continue
- Can I ask a clarifying question? Is it do you know if it's served by a private sanitation company or
- the city of Bloomington sanitation? That would necessarily make a difference usually four units or less
- the city Bloomington five units or more is like a private we'd be grumpy or Okay. Yeah
- But I feel like that may need to come at a code level to say, in regard to the alleyway discussion,
- if the garbage for a complex is in the alleyway, then that complex has a responsibility for either a
- portion or the whole thing. But I feel like that needs to come at a higher level than just the landlords,
- because they're not doing anything. Thank you.
- I thought Kate and then hope you think Of course, I don't like that. This is a resident responsibility
- or a property owner responsibility, but I wonder about Sometimes the city gives out helmets for cyclists.
- I wonder about having snow shovels available that are like Newer useful right ergonomic all those things
- that could be helpful. I wonder even about piloting some
- Maybe neighborhood association project with a snow blower for a neighborhood where some kind of like
- sidewalk size snow blower could in a neighborhood could like run it. I don't know it like for emergencies
- or for folks who can't get theirs cleared. I don't know if that's my idea. Hopi then Steve then I'd
- like to take.
- Okay. Thank you. Kind of going back to what Casey was saying about code changes and also what Isabelle
- said earlier about. So if an apartment complex like they might be required to shovel the sidewalks but
- they aren't necessarily required to shovel from you know an individual's door to the parking area for
- example. And I guess the question would be whether we could put something in code that requires that.
- It's like whether we could put something in code at all that requires like that access to trash bins
- I Mean that's like a legal question as to whether whether we can do that but then I also just I I think
- that we really need to reassess our fee structure and assess I Guess just every part of it including
- how much the fines are and
- whether it's the same for everybody or whether it's different, how can we differentiate commercial complexes
- from single-family residents from apartment complexes? I feel like those are three different categories
- in terms of businesses, and then two categories of where people live, and then a category of businesses
- where people work, where people shop, and that those might all need to be a little bit different.
- And yeah, I guess that's the piece that I'm in terms of solutioning. I think that we just need to make
- code a little bit stronger.
- And I mean, you have kind of the question of the efficacy of fines and whether fines do anything. I
- think that fines do do something if they're high enough, especially for commercial entities. It really,
- really bothers me on the east side, the College Mall Road, which is the mall on one side and lots of
- other businesses on the other side. And it's practically the last to get done. And those are all commercial
- entities, pretty much, and it should
- Not take that long for those folks to do that year after year after year Steve I think it was interesting
- what New York City did this year where they threw money at the problem They basically said we're gonna
- we're gonna commit to clearing all the streets. They hired people to to shovel I wonder if there isn't
- a solution that involves adjusting the the fine structure to be more Appropriate
- with respect to the density of people who are being served and Once we know that we can recover some
- greater fines from greater Enforcement Also hire people to shovel neighborhoods shovel curb cuts shovel
- trails and
- And let's find out how much it actually costs to get the level of service that we expect and then recover
- some of that cost from the fines that It would certainly teach people to go and clean their own Sidewalks
- if they got hit with a big fine because we had to hire people to shovel their sidewalk for them I don't
- know how they did it. I don't know the details of it. I just know that it was big news in New York City
- this winter Yeah
- I asked Michael Shermuss about the Snow Buddies program and how it's going when he was at the Transportation
- Commission. And he mentioned, I think, maybe a total of 30 volunteers and that it was less about kind
- of neighbor to neighbor. And those kind of things are probably happening more informally and more about
- people just volunteering to help with some issues, curb ramps in particular. He mentioned they would
- work on and plus probably being deployed in some instances for assistance to a particular
- household. But just to say that this is we're not going to volunteer. I understand. Yeah. No, I'm just
- sharing that that's where that kind of is currently. I wonder about leveraging neighborhood associations
- the way Kate was talking about to you, even if whether volunteer or pay, you know, basically working
- with the neighborhood associations to make sure they all have like communication on this and a plan
- in place. Are they helping to get the information out about responsibilities?
- As part of that, are they asking neighbors to help ask about and help their neighbors and identify if
- there's folks in their neighborhood that they can take care of who need it and volunteers within the
- neighborhood unit? That'd be a really good way to leverage that infrastructure. The one other thing
- I wanted to highlight is, yeah, trying to really zero in on like, I agree with Kate that I'm not wild
- about the fact that we treat what is ostensibly the highest priority transportation mode
- and kind of the lowest level priority with respect to this issue. But that's probably a question of
- political will to like make that shift. And there are some places, I think Bloomington, Minnesota actually
- clears all or most sidewalks, the city itself. I know Syracuse was doing a pilot in like the downtown
- where they were like having responses. So there are versions of this out there. That's usually places
- with more snow actually than what we get because that's more predictable in a sense.
- I don't think we're probably there. And the question is, like, what can we do that is most impactful
- at, like, least cost, maybe? And I think, like, equipment needs or equipment sharing has come up, like,
- trying to clarify, like, what are the equipment barriers that Adam is facing in public works? And if
- HAN is going to continue, you know, leading on enforcement, it seemed like there were software kind
- of challenges there that Anna was raising.
- And that they were switching back and forth between Paper, you know citations and trying to look up
- property owners Like that all seems like it there's an integrated software solution to some kind like
- they shouldn't be like looking up Property owners on the fly. So those kind of targeted intervention
- interventions and I think that could extend to you know paid folks for
- Shovelling to instead of relying pure van volunteers. I Wonder too about the gig economy in this where
- it's almost like an uber app because it is so Urgent and you know, what if it's the thing where you
- get on there and you're like, I need it shoveled I'll pay this much right now, you know and I don't
- know if there is an app like that that exists like neighborhood help and things but um, I
- We're right. It's just people kind of negotiating on their own about what they might pay. You might
- go out and do it like I would go shovel a little bit to branch off of your comment. The difficulty with
- something like that is that while people can they might be able to pay or Bloomington might be able
- to develop something like that.
- For people with disabilities and the elderly, many of them are on fixed incomes, and they can't afford
- something like that. So you would automatically create an exclusion by doing something like that, by
- making it a pay for play type of service. Yeah, and I wouldn't mean it as an only solution, just as
- can some people take part in that? I mean, I obviously think this should be a city service for all the
- sidewalks.
- It could be a solution potentially to free up resources, but you'd have to be careful not to make it
- the only solution because you would create exclusion Right right now The only solutions we have Besides
- what city staff can do are volunteer solutions. I'd rather see snow buddies helping people in need than
- people who
- than just sort of random sections of the city. We could concentrate those volunteer resources for people
- who need it, but people who are property owners who can afford to pay the fine and who should be attending
- to this responsibility. We don't need to have a single solution for everybody. We can have multifaceted solution.
- I just wanted to highlight what Kate said earlier about the neighborhood associations and and you know
- there's our small and simple grants that neighborhood associations take advantage of and maybe there
- could literally be like a snowblower grant and I'm pretty sure I'm remembering right that there's somebody
- in Park Ridge East who likes his snowblower so much that he snow blows all
- like a whole bunch of sidewalk for people there. I have to say I enjoy shoveling snow a couple times
- a year. My spouse actually went and shoveled several cars out of a nearby senior living complex for
- Random people this during the storm just for exercise and fun. So there are people that would Use that
- snowblower and would very much enjoy you could get a whole network probably people who would enjoy running
- the snowblower and that if we had some kind of neighborhood grant related to that then that could at
- least you know, take care of
- Certain places and especially some of those really high traffic like high pedestrian traffic sorts of
- places and maybe depending on where it is you can even incorporate that into into some bus stops depending
- on where Those snowblowers were kept and where the bus stops are There is an app for that an app called
- shoveler the app that removes snow you can become a shoveler or request a shoveler for your home or
- your business or your
- I don't know. I think there's a combination of solutions here. What I'd really like to see is a move
- toward proactive enforcement if not citywide which probably isn't feasible on like the high high entry
- network in particular and or like downtown kind of overlay. It seems highly feasible. It may well be
- that parking enforcement actually has very low work volumes during snow events or in a lower
- And would be able to take some of that on and maybe it's a bifurcated responsibility Maybe hand is doing
- neighborhood education and citations for the one-off sidewalk gap in a neighborhood that somebody's
- reporting But you know, there's a core area that's that's delineated. That's different Because yeah
- It seems that the reactiveness is actually part of the operational challenge that Anna has highlighted the
- that people are trying to do their regular job, and then they'll have to respond to this thing, and
- they can't respond quickly enough. Yeah. Yeah, Casey. This isn't actually a solution. This is a question
- from earlier. Who is responsible for areas in Bloomington
- that are under construction when it snows. For example, the Hopewell neighborhood and Second Street,
- because this last winter I actually got stuck there for about 30 minutes because it wasn't shoveled
- and the police ended up having to come get me. It's the property owner. So it's the city of Bloomington
- in that case. But that points to RDC. I think in particular we've identified as maybe having some gaps
- in compliance. But yeah. And one of the things
- One solution I think the city needs to kind of think about is in snow events how to handle older sidewalks
- because for example 2nd Street it's not just the sidewalk it's quite old and because it's being developed
- a lot of the maintenance of it has kind of come to a point of well we'll get to it when we redo it all
- and the difficulty especially on
- second in some areas is that there are some curb cuts that are little more curb than cut and They don't
- go straight ahead They go to an angle. Yeah, and that angle goes into traffic So I feel like with curb
- cuts when it snows It's not just about clearing them but also marking where are they because when we
- get deep snow and the snow starts to pile the level of the snow
- And the level of the curb can become even, and you can't see where the cut is. And when you have a curb
- cut, like on some of the second street ones that go at an angle, you don't want to miss the curb cut
- and be thrown into traffic. So I think it's not just about clearing the curb cuts, but making sure that
- it's clear where are they when it snows.
- It reminds me to talk about this issue like it might be a code thing to to clarify responsibilities
- that extend to you know to the street or like like all the way to the street edge or whatever right.
- But it's not if you're if you're on a if you're on adjacent to an alley or a street. So it would include
- the alley I mean.
- No, not include the alley. That's that is a separate issue But like I think some people are carrying
- sidewalks like to the corner, but like not the ramp part going to the street By Kate's vote and no other
- objections. I just We are in this the workshop of specific issues section of the agenda and
- And we're treating that list of 11 or so things as ideation here. And we're in those categories, including
- the other. Well, this would be under the topic of city and property, I guess. And that would be an unmet
- need, it seems to me, is accessibility to parking meters. So not only if you park a car, you need at
- least some access to the sidewalk. Say, picture the square. I need to get to the sidewalk. And there's
- usually a barrier of,
- maybe a snow bag that I have to navigate. And there's no way to get there. It takes me into traffic.
- And then I've got to feed the meter. And that's not always. Maybe in the square, you can reach over
- to it. But I've been on, I don't know. I wonder if the microphones are catching what you're saying,
- Dave, because you're so far away. I'm just concerned about people on cats not hearing you.
- I'm gonna point to you in a moment. So the point is accessibility to parking meters and In some cases
- I've had to walk into like a snowbank in order to feed a meter and I imagine everyone else is doing
- that too Wait
- Well, I find it's your responsibility so The parking services division did commission a Study on parking
- the first one since 2018 Just came in. We've just issued comments on it. It's about to come to the City
- Council within I don't know probably before the break and one of the strong recommendations in it something that I
- I know parking services has wanted for a long time The elimination of single-space meters that they're
- expensive. They're hard to maintain I suspect that I mean acknowledging everything you said and I pointed
- out earlier I think that when the meters get so full of snow, we need to find out exactly what the protocol
- is for enforcement officers Do they bother to enforce when nobody can get to the meter? but it will
- be easier to
- prevent snow from blocking meters if we go to meters that are for a half block or a full block where
- you have to go to the meter to pay and then maybe put a piece of paper in your window or you give your
- license plate there if there's only one or two meters per block, it'll be much easier to Clear the snow
- around it and it make them accessible It doesn't really address I mean because right now the meters
- are sort of in the right of way where
- Public Works deposits the snow, right? They're shoveling the snow into the meters. So if there's only
- one or two Multi-space meters per block that should Eliminate one small part of this this large problem.
- I'm certainly going to recommend that they go to that kind of meeting Sounds good
- Are the parking spaces labeled so I can You know well enough say that it it's making us to know exceed
- the scope of I can see yeah, but I'm just no no, no, there's there's pay by space and there's pay by
- plate and if you can I mean park park mobile the app expects you to have a place and
- then it doesn't matter that you're at a particular meter or space. So let's move on to just a brief
- touching base on next steps. I've taken notes and documented questions that folks have for follow-up.
- I anticipate probably having a conversation with the various department heads and also probably John
- Connell or someone from Bloomington Transit to talk a little bit more about exploring some of these
- concepts. I think at minimum, the council's purview clearly extends to code
- and looking at potential adjustment to the fine schedule and some of the details around that. I think
- there's also probably some budgetary implications. Pedestrian accessibility and safety in the context
- of snow events need enter our budget priorities document this year. So it shouldn't be a surprise if
- we're coming with some specific ideas in that vein. And then probably some of the operational stuff
- might be more about clarifying things, identifying opportunities through that conversation.
- where there might be some gaps like like Kate you Brought up the one around like if the width of the
- beeline right-of-way is 20 feet wide in some areas But we're only clearing the 12 feet of path that
- maybe that is an operational change for parks to you know and so identifying some of those things and
- then some of the processes that might support it so, you know the sidewalk operations plan or you know
- the reporting processes and things like that, so I
- I plan to work on those things. I would welcome a colleague or two or three, whoever sub-quorum amounts
- would make it easiest and most feasible to be able to meet with staff with ease and that kind of thing.
- Are there others who are interested in working on next steps at some level? Hopi? I'm interested in
- working on the code change stuff. I think I mentioned that to you and kind of exploring different potentials
- for the fee structure.
- and I guess just the I don't know how much we can how much procedure we want to code but Yeah, well
- hand is specifically called out and we could explore other options if there's gonna be enforcement beyond
- that others interested in yeah I think the CCA would definitely want to be looped in on to that I don't
- know if I myself would be able to do it, but I know others would be interested. Yeah, great Yeah, no,
- definitely any like
- policy change and that kind of thing would be I think done in conjunction with Transformation Commission
- CCA That when you say When everyone's saying feet is that we really mean fine when we say feet here?
- Yeah Yeah, fine schedule. Did I say feet is generally what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you're planning
- to do it. So we should call it fine I'm interested I'm super interested in
- getting sidewalks cleared. So as in like not as much of the fine situation, but the actual getting the
- snow off of them. So it'd be additional. If we're getting so big about the help, you know, or the input
- in the work. Yeah. We hope he seems to be very interested in the fine situation. And that's great. And
- I think it's service too. And I feel interested in the snow blower situation. Sure.
- Yes. Yeah. And I want to clarify that part of part of my motivation for that is I do think that the
- fines can be effective especially for commercial entities. And so that's my interest in increasing fines
- and changing fine structures especially as it relates to commercial interests just so that any constituents
- out there don't get like oh my gosh that council member Stossberg wants to know. It's about businesses
- that should be doing this anyway.
- Well, this goes to Andy's question, I mean The whole purpose behind Parking fees is to get compliance
- not to necessarily make money for the city But it pays for the service of providing parking in the same
- way whether it's a fee beforehand or a fine after the goal is compliance and I think that what Hopi
- and Kate are saying are kind of the same thing and
- You're not looking to charge fines for the sake of it. You're looking for it so that you can get streets
- cleared. That's what any kind of fine structure should be about. I don't think we should go to a fee
- structure where we charge people in advance for it. So I appreciate that you made the distinction. But
- in theory it's possible we do that already with other services in the city. Parking being the primary
- example. So I'm hearing Hopi Kate some interest in collaboration.
- Forward I would anticipate reporting back and periodically to the council on progress and some of this
- too Anybody else want to be looped in on particular aspects of this going forward beyond that? Nope,
- okay I'll be happy to help if you want to plug me in where needed Okay, I don't have a specific but
- if you're like, hey, we could use a hand here. Yeah, sure. Give me a call. Great. Thank you With that
- maybe we can move on to a final round of public comment about the
- overall process, next steps here, et cetera. At least we have one member of the public in chambers.
- If you would like to comment, no comments, okay. Anyone online who would like to comment? No comments.
- All right. Anything else, any final clarifying questions? Yeah, Steve. What's your timeline? How soon
- do you want to see a change in policy? A year or six months? I think things with budget, for this coming
- season, for this coming winter season. So I think we should aim to have code changes,
- any potential of our operational updates and reporting on that and any budget requests obviously obviously
- for this budget cycle. So it'll probably be iterative but all those things have to make progress on
- this year. Is there one particular staff member or department who would coordinate a response from inquiries
- from counsel or in other words if the if the
- The transportation mission took it up as an inquiry. We'd involve planning and transportation
- and engineering, but we might be repeating work that somebody else is already doing. Yeah, you know,
- potentially Hank Duncan, the pedestrian and bicycle coordinator, is a suitable position to kind of be
- in a convening role, planning department generally. Maybe also look Ryan Roebling. I don't know. Public
- Works does a lot of this, obviously, on the city.
- But it's just multifaceted. There's multiple departments involved Right. That's why I asked you So I
- think we've named the right people for the most part and they identified a few more transit Yeah, I'm
- sure we can get ITS involved somehow. Yeah Well, I did reach out about the data Analysis from you reports.
- That's something we should probably be leveraging a whole lot more than we do HR. Yep All right with that
- Thank you all for your ideation and thoughtfulness. I think we are adjourned. I think Courtney has to
- adjourn us. Oh, we just offered it. Yeah, we did. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. That's OK. Yeah, there was
- no one. I think Courtney has to adjourn us, though. Oh, yeah. I'll turn it back to the chair of the
- meeting to adjourn us properly. Meeting adjourned. Thank you.