WEBVTT 00:00:00.610 --> 00:00:10.080 - I would call into order this March 24th meeting of the Common Council Hiring Committee should be a fairly 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:19.014 - straightforward meeting. We're just finalizing some work that we didn't get to in the agenda on our 00:00:19.014 --> 00:00:25.982 - last meeting, namely, finalizing our description for our terms. So with that, 00:00:26.562 --> 00:00:36.749 - Let me get on the Zoom as well so I can share screen like we did last time. Is there an agenda for this 00:00:36.749 --> 00:00:46.838 - meeting? No. Okay. I think the only item is that one. How do I get the Zoom link? It's on the calendar 00:00:46.838 --> 00:00:55.262 - invite and I can drop it into the chat if I see this. Operating the two systems here. 00:00:56.930 --> 00:01:16.286 - Actually, you're not there. I've got it. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm always hungry, so. Recording. 00:01:29.986 --> 00:01:38.514 - I mean, no. Is there an echo? Nice. Need me to go away? Magic. Oh. I can't share my screen. Right. We 00:01:38.514 --> 00:01:46.959 - went through this last week. We did. I just totally forgot. I'm not even... Rita, do it. If you can, 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:55.487 - that would be awesome. If you're able to. Why can't you share your screen? Because... At admin rates. 00:01:55.487 --> 00:01:59.166 - Yeah. We have to get our computers updated. 00:01:59.362 --> 00:02:16.413 - The other thing we should do too is if you want to drive, you could, you know, just keep the remote, 00:02:16.413 --> 00:02:28.062 - the mouse. I can make the adjustments out here. So you want me to... 00:02:29.314 --> 00:02:41.204 - You're able to share your spoon, if you're able to. Sharing is not turned on. Yeah, same thing. Oh, 00:02:41.204 --> 00:02:53.569 - sorry. I think you've been able to share before. I think so. So that should take care of it. We'll see. 00:02:53.569 --> 00:02:58.206 - Is Council Member Willow coming today? 00:02:58.594 --> 00:03:08.254 - I just texted him. All right. Okay. I think we all had a chance to go through, but I think just for 00:03:08.254 --> 00:03:18.204 - it to be thorough, it might be useful just pick up where we stopped and just make sure we talk through 00:03:18.204 --> 00:03:23.710 - all the comments and then accept them. Then accept them. 00:03:24.130 --> 00:03:30.886 - Question, though, for the packet, it would probably be useful to keep it redlined, or should we just 00:03:30.886 --> 00:03:37.975 - have a clean version to go out? Hey, Dave, sorry. What do you think? What do we think? Would it be useful 00:03:37.975 --> 00:03:44.798 - to have? OK, so I'll make a clean copy that we'll put in the packet tomorrow so I won't accept any of 00:03:44.798 --> 00:03:51.487 - the things. OK, so the goal of the description was to really elevate the position, highlighting the 00:03:51.487 --> 00:03:52.958 - overseeing functions, 00:03:53.250 --> 00:04:02.656 - Et cetera. And that's what we talked about one last time. And we were on point. Uh, right there where 00:04:02.656 --> 00:04:12.431 - it says, um, insures out of the staffing, I think is where we left off, right? Yes. Under four difficulty 00:04:12.431 --> 00:04:22.206 - of work. We're all the way down there. No, I think we were here. Yeah, I think we're there. So. Any so I. 00:04:22.882 --> 00:04:32.534 - Art in green is what I added. Overseas posting agendas and information packets for such units. I was 00:04:32.534 --> 00:04:42.282 - thinking we should use the same insurers there. That's fine. I.e., make sure that this happens and if 00:04:42.282 --> 00:04:52.126 - there's nobody, if our devolution has failed entirely, then the person does it. Yeah, I like insurers. 00:04:59.490 --> 00:05:06.739 - Yes, I was leaving that to you. There's the city's collective bargaining team when directed by council 00:05:06.739 --> 00:05:13.917 - and we took out the other stuff about, and then this, yeah, yeah, I remember. So we were here because 00:05:13.917 --> 00:05:21.447 - we were talking about this question about whether council staff represents the council at public meetings. 00:05:21.447 --> 00:05:28.062 - Yeah, I was wondering, I was trying to remember a situation in which our staff represented us 00:05:29.314 --> 00:05:41.914 - at a public meeting. Like where we were not there, but they went. Right. Yeah. Do they not represent 00:05:41.914 --> 00:05:54.390 - us when we are there, though? I think the word represent here is different. OK. I don't recall, but 00:05:54.390 --> 00:05:57.758 - I'm a bit sick to private. 00:05:59.106 --> 00:06:06.280 - No, I can't recall any time when somebody showed up to speak on behalf of the council as one of your 00:06:06.280 --> 00:06:13.384 - staff members. Unless maybe for something like, and this is a stretch, but thinking about Residence 00:06:13.384 --> 00:06:20.629 - Academy or Leadership Bloomington or some of those larger outreach events where it's possible a staff 00:06:20.629 --> 00:06:27.875 - member went on behalf of council because council member or council leadership couldn't show up at the 00:06:27.875 --> 00:06:28.798 - last minute. 00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:34.744 - So there is some possibility potential for it. Don't they go to CAPS meetings? And Council does not 00:06:34.744 --> 00:06:40.849 - necessarily go to CAPS meetings? Yeah, they're staffing those meetings. They're not representing Council 00:06:40.849 --> 00:06:46.663 - meetings. Do we not want them to tell us, hey, this is what happened at CAPS meetings, like the way 00:06:46.663 --> 00:06:52.768 - that if I went to a CAPS meeting, if I was the liaison, I would tell everyone, hey, this is what's going 00:06:52.768 --> 00:06:55.326 - on? We haven't asked them to do that. Good. 00:06:56.002 --> 00:07:01.368 - Yeah, but when they're operating in that space, they're not speaking for the council. Right, exactly, 00:07:01.368 --> 00:07:06.734 - that's true. I've staffed a CAHPS meeting before and I was not speaking for the council. Right. Well, 00:07:06.734 --> 00:07:12.257 - and now there's a council member liaison. Yep, so no longer, yep. It might be worth taking out the first 00:07:12.257 --> 00:07:17.623 - chunk of that sentence and just putting, ensures appropriate response to resident and media inquiries 00:07:17.623 --> 00:07:20.990 - concerning council business, because I think that that would be 00:07:21.122 --> 00:07:29.152 - That would be inclusive of circumstances where they would need to represent us at instances like Residence 00:07:29.152 --> 00:07:35.981 - Academy or speaking to groups. Yep. I think that's great. What was the comment? Thank you. 00:07:35.981 --> 00:07:39.358 - So thank you, Sam. Meaningful. Yep. Perfect. 00:07:41.602 --> 00:07:48.461 - Okay then, overseas processes for receiving, referring, tracking, and following up on constituent concerns 00:07:48.461 --> 00:07:55.192 - to help ensure that matters raised with the council are directed appropriately and addressed in a timely 00:07:55.192 --> 00:07:58.846 - manner. So my note here is that they've never done that. 00:07:59.042 --> 00:08:04.445 - As far as I know, there's no process, but receiving, referring, tracking the phone. And this was it. 00:08:04.445 --> 00:08:10.168 - So this was a purposeful addition that I made because what we currently have is a, is the sense of there's 00:08:10.168 --> 00:08:12.094 - this counseling mill and it's just. 00:08:12.290 --> 00:08:17.623 - collects all things and they look through it and if it's relevant, they just send it to us, right? 00:08:17.623 --> 00:08:23.063 - There's no, there's not an active process through which they're trying to make sure that information 00:08:23.063 --> 00:08:28.450 - is received and given to us. And I actually think that's something I'd love somebody to be thinking 00:08:28.450 --> 00:08:33.944 - actively about, like how do we get better information and just, you know. I think also sometimes when 00:08:33.944 --> 00:08:39.331 - we receive like a whole slate of PDFs from the council of the mail. Oh my gosh, yes. Or things that 00:08:39.331 --> 00:08:42.078 - like summarize, it's a little bit unclear as like, 00:08:42.562 --> 00:08:49.048 - Okay, well, there were 3 different resident concerns. Yes, kind of hard to tell exactly who is going 00:08:49.048 --> 00:08:55.599 - to take care of that. Then they're going to use this. I'm sure you guys have talked about this before 00:08:55.599 --> 00:09:02.021 - and my apologies for missing your 1st, 2 meetings, but. This is something that was done in the past 00:09:02.021 --> 00:09:08.507 - and there was a tracking system, but over the last. 4 years, you've gone through at least 4 research 00:09:08.507 --> 00:09:09.278 - assistance. 00:09:10.114 --> 00:09:16.879 - three or four deputy attorneys and three or four attorneys. A lot of the things that you guys had established 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:23.029 - in the past have fallen off just through lots of institutional knowledge. One by one by one by one, 00:09:23.029 --> 00:09:29.487 - we've actually lost some of the systems that were in place and the people coming in didn't know to train 00:09:29.487 --> 00:09:35.699 - somebody on the things that followed. That's good to know. Really? I don't know about you, Dave, but 00:09:35.699 --> 00:09:37.790 - I never knew there was a process. 00:09:37.890 --> 00:09:44.207 - It would be welcome. Yeah, again, the only reason that I know that is because for years I was working 00:09:44.207 --> 00:09:50.710 - next to council staff members and actually listening and watching. And hearing and sometimes being shown 00:09:50.710 --> 00:09:56.903 - the systems that they had in place. Again, some of those things were not things that would probably 00:09:56.903 --> 00:10:03.406 - rise to the level of your knowledge and or experience of them because on the receiving end of it, you're 00:10:03.406 --> 00:10:06.750 - not going to see it. And if you're not in the office. 00:10:07.362 --> 00:10:13.306 - 40 hours a week or more, you're just not gonna be aware of those things. So I'm not saying it like, 00:10:13.306 --> 00:10:19.607 - how can you not know it? It's much more in the space of, I don't know that you would have known it unless 00:10:19.607 --> 00:10:25.610 - somebody was sitting here walking through it every day. And so far as this job description is really 00:10:25.610 --> 00:10:31.554 - helpful, and it's helpful that we have to do this in this type of format, because it's giving us an 00:10:31.554 --> 00:10:35.358 - opportunity sort of line by line to think about counsel, staff, 00:10:35.682 --> 00:10:41.339 - organization. And I think that, you know, saying very clearly, like exactly what you just described 00:10:41.339 --> 00:10:47.053 - to me as an ad hoc process, where they're sort of deciding on their own, maybe council needs to know 00:10:47.053 --> 00:10:52.711 - people are calling about this generally or something like that versus where we would say look like, 00:10:52.711 --> 00:10:58.651 - like, we as a council might have some outcome in mind that we want in relation to how the general public 00:10:58.651 --> 00:11:01.310 - gets information and talks to council and, and 00:11:01.410 --> 00:11:06.243 - That if that sort of is no one's job, I think it's really helpful to say, actually, that's something 00:11:06.243 --> 00:11:11.171 - we want us to have to do, which is, you know, which is think very carefully about how council receives 00:11:11.171 --> 00:11:16.004 - and gives information. Um, I think sorry, something to add to that is that you have to also consider 00:11:16.004 --> 00:11:20.884 - how constituents want to interact with you. Yes. Never wanted me to tell them the answer people to be 00:11:20.884 --> 00:11:22.846 - represent basically represent, you know. 00:11:23.074 --> 00:11:28.266 - They have they want to talk this is level they want to talk to you guys and there's some things where 00:11:28.266 --> 00:11:33.561 - you can triage and be like, oh, for this, you should actually talk to this office. They can help. Yeah, 00:11:33.561 --> 00:11:38.651 - for a lot of the things they want that direct interaction. Yes. Yes. And I mean, this really became 00:11:38.651 --> 00:11:42.622 - all the more clear yesterday. We got an email and the email starts with like. 00:11:42.722 --> 00:11:47.974 - You know, only some, some, some, some respond to my emails. And I'm like, I've never received an email 00:11:47.974 --> 00:11:53.074 - from this person ever. And I know who this person is, but I'm like, I've never received an email in 00:11:53.074 --> 00:11:58.326 - this, in this email cap from this person. Yeah. Unless they've been forwarding some packets. I'm sure, 00:11:58.326 --> 00:12:03.426 - I'm sure they are. But my, but my point is, and this is, this is, you know, yes, both to compliment 00:12:03.426 --> 00:12:09.086 - those who, who have seen those emails and responded, but to show that the process is such that I'm like, I've. 00:12:09.218 --> 00:12:15.027 - I never saw an email, right? And then that's a, I think a concern that all of us share. And I think 00:12:15.027 --> 00:12:20.835 - residents share as well, you know? So. There's also a public relations piece where I think that the 00:12:20.835 --> 00:12:26.644 - majority of our residents assume that anything sent to council at bloomington.in.gov is going to go 00:12:26.644 --> 00:12:32.685 - to all nine of us. And that's not the case. And like, that's okay. Yeah, but that's something we should 00:12:32.685 --> 00:12:38.494 - be talking about. Yes, exactly, exactly. So that's why I added that. Okay, that's fine. I just had. 00:12:39.074 --> 00:12:45.942 - wanted to talk through it, so I appreciate that. Overseas, this is just a change of sort of elevating, 00:12:45.942 --> 00:12:52.677 - I think, along the same line. So instead of just supervises the development submission and execution 00:12:52.677 --> 00:12:59.412 - of the department budget, said oversees the development submission, administration and monitoring of 00:12:59.412 --> 00:13:06.814 - the council's department budget in coordination with appropriate staff and consistent with council priorities. 00:13:06.946 --> 00:13:13.278 - The bit that I don't know if it's super clear is that this person not only, because we're trying to 00:13:13.278 --> 00:13:19.799 - position this person as, you know, head of council department or whatever, right? And I mean, the idea 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:26.321 - is that it's not just they're a passive person who takes a budget and goes, then submits it and we ask 00:13:26.321 --> 00:13:31.006 - them questions and things like that. But actually they also have a job of 00:13:31.106 --> 00:13:38.574 - administering that budget once we have it. I mean, that's, I think, been what's left off of this, that 00:13:38.574 --> 00:13:46.114 - they actually then run said budget, whatever size it is. Yeah. And this actually was relevant this year 00:13:46.114 --> 00:13:53.945 - because Lisa and I were having all these conversations about, hey, we have this money for external counsel. 00:13:53.945 --> 00:13:56.990 - Can we use this for, what do you call it? 00:13:57.506 --> 00:14:02.085 - accessibility consultants as an example, right? And it's like, yeah, it falls within the category. Like, 00:14:02.085 --> 00:14:06.534 - it sort of felt like the type of thing that she should have just been able to say, like, it's already 00:14:06.534 --> 00:14:11.288 - in our budget, this falls within the category, and this is how I'm going to do this because it's a necessity 00:14:11.288 --> 00:14:15.693 - of the things that need to be done. It's like, it didn't feel like a conversation that she needed to 00:14:15.693 --> 00:14:16.478 - be having with me 00:14:16.546 --> 00:14:22.089 - And then vis-a-vis the whole count, like it wasn't like, this was like daily operations, like the same 00:14:22.089 --> 00:14:27.524 - thing. They shouldn't be asking us, can we buy pens and can we get furniture? Like, you know, right? 00:14:27.524 --> 00:14:32.960 - Like there are certain things that just like run the office. Yeah. And we really should empower them 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:33.982 - to do so. I agree. 00:14:36.418 --> 00:14:42.235 - And then the following goes, directs the annual review of department activities, services, operational 00:14:42.235 --> 00:14:47.939 - effectiveness, and oversees the preparation and submission of related reports, both anticipating the 00:14:47.939 --> 00:14:53.757 - fact that both thinking of staff oversight. So I think that was what originally was there, performance 00:14:53.757 --> 00:14:59.404 - and reviews, departmental activities and services, but then elevating a little bit to the idea that 00:14:59.404 --> 00:15:04.318 - we're moving toward outcomes, et cetera. So they actually should be mindful of however 00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:10.665 - But it's like, you know, if we spend money, we want to be tracking things. And so we'll be creating 00:15:10.665 --> 00:15:16.798 - processes. One hopes that in some future date, it's actually be reporting on outcomes of where money's spent. 00:15:17.218 --> 00:15:23.000 - And then the last one sort of just summarizes all the things above, which is to say, the person serves 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:29.063 - as the director of the council office, providing strategic leadership, vision, and continuity of operations 00:15:29.063 --> 00:15:35.181 - across council terms, and supervises and directs the deputy administrator attorney, assistant administrator, 00:15:35.181 --> 00:15:41.019 - interns, and other, and what I wanted to say was, what I was trying to say here is, this person directs 00:15:41.019 --> 00:15:42.142 - the council office, 00:15:42.402 --> 00:15:49.630 - I was trying to capture the fact that I think became attention in the sense reflecting on what you said 00:15:49.630 --> 00:15:56.510 - multiple times David were like, you know, we had a time where Dan Sherman was in the office and he 00:15:56.674 --> 00:16:01.696 - you know, was in the office and then you get a whole new set of council and he's still in the office 00:16:01.696 --> 00:16:06.767 - and you get a whole new set of council and he's still in office. And there's, you know, you want this 00:16:06.767 --> 00:16:11.838 - person to be thinking about continuity of council office, not thinking about just reactiveness to the 00:16:11.838 --> 00:16:16.760 - nine people who are currently in council, right? And so that there's a little bit of institutional 00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:21.831 - development, right? That it's like, it's still entrusted to the elected people, but at the end of the 00:16:21.831 --> 00:16:26.654 - day, you want this person to be thinking about what does council office look like in four years? 00:16:26.658 --> 00:16:33.594 - Um, you know, not just what are these nine people want right now? Um, type of questions. That's also 00:16:33.594 --> 00:16:40.668 - helpful because apart from like the administrative onboarding that we received as new council members, 00:16:40.668 --> 00:16:47.810 - like there wasn't a lot of like, Hey, this is how you do this type of type of teaching. And so it would 00:16:47.810 --> 00:16:51.038 - be helpful to have, um, our office staff like, 00:16:51.266 --> 00:16:57.868 - This is how you become a successful counsel number well not also I mean that also goes to this question 00:16:57.868 --> 00:17:04.406 - why why we try to emphasize all the compartmental you know partnership parts, because you know. It put 00:17:04.406 --> 00:17:11.198 - in myself in the shoes of this person and then there's a new Council right that person is also saying hey. 00:17:11.458 --> 00:17:18.105 - Will you come in and give a one hour presentation to council members about, you know, for example, Robert's 00:17:18.105 --> 00:17:24.506 - Rules, because you are a certified, you know, nationally recognized Robert's Rules person, right? Like, 00:17:24.506 --> 00:17:30.846 - and you know what I'm saying? Like, like, that's the type of thing that somebody who's thinking about, 00:17:30.846 --> 00:17:34.046 - you know, like the would be, would be doing, right? 00:17:34.402 --> 00:17:39.908 - we may individually go and say, hey, Clerk Bolden, you know, hey Colleen, can you tell me about, 00:17:39.908 --> 00:17:45.754 - you know, and actually I think the learning curve for a new council member became really heavy, right? 00:17:45.754 --> 00:17:50.976 - So anyways, but I wanted, the thing that I don't think I've captured here is I didn't want, 00:17:50.976 --> 00:17:56.652 - I wanted to say, like, I didn't want to name, I named the specific rules, but I wanted to basically 00:17:56.652 --> 00:18:01.022 - just say, whoever works in council's office reports to this person in short. 00:18:04.194 --> 00:18:11.563 - So I don't know, but I don't know if this, does this capture this well enough, right? I think so. Well, 00:18:11.563 --> 00:18:18.649 - and especially if we take this job description as a whole and we see it go down, that they can have 00:18:18.649 --> 00:18:25.735 - a role in reconfiguring. Yes. Yes. Yes. Great point. Yeah. Now the only, the tension here, and this 00:18:25.735 --> 00:18:30.270 - just as we're being a bit meta here, the tension becomes to me, 00:18:30.626 --> 00:18:36.984 - I don't know if we've outlined clear enough within this and maybe the job isn't as necessary. We talked 00:18:36.984 --> 00:18:43.097 - earlier about sort of reports to council and navigates the nine different peoples, making sure that 00:18:43.097 --> 00:18:49.332 - this sort of sets with different priorities. And we I think got at that nuance fairly well above, but 00:18:49.332 --> 00:18:55.507 - I'm just curious if we need a clearer line, like a clearer reporting line within the job description 00:18:55.507 --> 00:18:59.358 - or if that's something that can be dealt with at another time. 00:18:59.906 --> 00:19:06.332 - in another document or through another tool. You mean a reporting line who this position reports to, 00:19:06.332 --> 00:19:12.822 - or? Correct. Right, like, because we're walking this tension, I think, fairly well, but I just wonder 00:19:12.822 --> 00:19:19.185 - if we want to be more explicit. You know, but again, we could think about this in another document. 00:19:19.185 --> 00:19:25.611 - Like, right, we could come up with just a statement as a council that sort of says how we want it to 00:19:25.611 --> 00:19:27.774 - be done, but I don't know if, no. 00:19:28.642 --> 00:19:34.950 - to what extent you all think within a job description you want to be a bit clearer about. I mean, if 00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:41.508 - I were applying for a job, I would want to know who I report to. Right. And it would make me feel better 00:19:41.508 --> 00:19:47.753 - if I reported to one person rather than mine. Exactly. Exactly. But that's a pretty big decision to 00:19:47.753 --> 00:19:54.686 - make. I guess we can put it in. Would you kind of not like to have a different boss every year as well, right? 00:19:55.106 --> 00:20:02.346 - It's hard enough to have a different department chair. But what this really sounds to me a lot also 00:20:02.346 --> 00:20:09.730 - is if you look at all the positions that report to boards of directors, take a look at nonprofits and 00:20:09.730 --> 00:20:17.694 - see what their reaction is like. That's a great point. That's a great point. Thank you. That's a great point. 00:20:20.130 --> 00:20:29.069 - Okay, I think this is the perfect point and one that we actually could answer while sitting here. Let's 00:20:29.069 --> 00:20:37.836 - finish and then spend whatever time we have to do that. You're a brilliant human, thank you. Okay, so 00:20:37.836 --> 00:20:46.174 - moving on then to job requirements. The only thing added there, took away the word special. Why? 00:20:46.658 --> 00:20:54.065 - Yeah, because it's just like, well, it doesn't matter if they're, like, why does it have to be special 00:20:54.065 --> 00:21:01.472 - circumstances? You understand how cities work, right? And then added a broader sense of, you know, not 00:21:01.472 --> 00:21:08.950 - just like a working knowledge of budget preparation, but working knowledge of public budget development 00:21:08.950 --> 00:21:15.710 - administration and oversight sufficient to supervise the council department budget and advise 00:21:16.194 --> 00:21:25.404 - on related institutional issues. Now, we could make this a stronger requirement, which is the person 00:21:25.404 --> 00:21:34.615 - needs to have had experience with budgets. Is that going to limit our candidate search? Yes. Is that 00:21:34.615 --> 00:21:42.366 - a way that we would like to limit our candidate search? What way to work in budgets? 00:21:42.498 --> 00:21:49.824 - Well, so whether it's a working knowledge, i.e. I get how budgets work versus. I don't think it's a 00:21:49.824 --> 00:21:57.369 - huge ask. It's not like they're running a 40-numbered department, which is great. Right. I don't think 00:21:57.369 --> 00:22:05.061 - it's fine the way it is. Working knowledge. Is that what you were getting at, Dave? Yeah. I mean, that's 00:22:05.061 --> 00:22:09.310 - also something that we can ask in interviews. Sure. Yeah. 00:22:09.410 --> 00:22:15.041 - I think that might be a better place to address it. This is the optimal, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 00:22:15.041 --> 00:22:20.673 - that's why they don't, but they can pick it up because they're smart. Yeah. Yeah. It could also add 00:22:20.673 --> 00:22:26.361 - like experience with budget preferred, but not necessary. Cool. Skeptical. Sorry. I just sat through 00:22:26.361 --> 00:22:31.767 - a meeting at the comptroller's office today when you're like, oh, it's small. So they're going, 00:22:31.767 --> 00:22:35.934 - oh my God. The comptroller, that's all different. Yeah, that's different. 00:22:37.058 --> 00:22:43.706 - But it is true though, in the sense that there are certain things that already exist in the city. It's 00:22:43.706 --> 00:22:50.160 - not like, it becomes a heavier lift if you haven't done budgets, but the process is already set and 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:56.615 - outside, you know, like the person ideally is participating in an active way here, but in the worst 00:22:56.615 --> 00:23:03.263 - case scenario, the person fills out the form that is given to them, you know, right? So I think you're 00:23:03.263 --> 00:23:06.942 - correct. Excuse me, I've been sniffing a little all day. 00:23:07.394 --> 00:23:17.637 - Um, okay. So, um, yeah, exactly. There's public meeting. Are you? I assume you know, the contractors 00:23:17.637 --> 00:23:28.386 - balloon. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying for the record. May the record show that council member is indeed 00:23:28.386 --> 00:23:29.502 - not a cat. 00:23:29.634 --> 00:23:38.654 - What? A Zoom joke. Don't you guys remember? Your honor, I'm not a cat. 00:23:39.266 --> 00:23:45.630 - Okay, let's move on. Okay, under number three, consult regularly with the common council regarding major 00:23:45.630 --> 00:23:52.115 - legal policy governance and administrative matters, reports directly to the council. Okay, so we actually, 00:23:52.115 --> 00:23:58.661 - I actually did anticipate this reports directly to the council and work is reviewed primarily for alignment 00:23:58.661 --> 00:24:04.722 - with council objectives, legal sufficiency and overall effectiveness that echoes what we have above 00:24:04.722 --> 00:24:09.086 - on council priorities. Yes. The word effectiveness, any concerns there? 00:24:10.114 --> 00:24:19.224 - I like it. Works with substantial independence and exercises a high degree of professional judgment 00:24:19.224 --> 00:24:28.790 - in carrying out the responsibilities of the position, provides executive oversight of the council office 00:24:28.790 --> 00:24:38.356 - within general policy direction and supervisory boundaries established by the common council. Well said. 00:24:38.356 --> 00:24:39.358 - Thank you. 00:24:40.130 --> 00:24:47.117 - No, they don't spell incorrectly. What's spelled incorrectly? What is? Judgment. I think there's supposed 00:24:47.117 --> 00:24:53.840 - to be an E. It can and cannot. What is this? British? I know. Is this British? No, they're both. They 00:24:53.840 --> 00:25:00.563 - have free variation with some words. I do spell gray with an E, if anyone's watching me. It's good to 00:25:00.563 --> 00:25:07.352 - know. They're both accepted. I've been wondering that for years. Right? I think they're both accepted. 00:25:07.352 --> 00:25:08.670 - Which is preferred? 00:25:09.218 --> 00:25:20.213 - Okay, thank you. People started adding it after a popular low-cost gym started adding it and making 00:25:20.213 --> 00:25:31.537 - me crazy. Is that right? How interesting. There's a low-cost gym. Okay. Stay on task, everyone. Do you 00:25:31.537 --> 00:25:37.694 - say judgment more than once here? Is it consistent with 00:25:37.826 --> 00:25:44.885 - It's a little smart. Oh, true. The other thing on that note, I was going to request if you could say 00:25:44.885 --> 00:25:51.874 - common council. Yes. And not jump between city council and council. It consists of, yeah, where did 00:25:51.874 --> 00:25:59.003 - I, let's see. I would just do a finding a place at the end. I didn't say city council ever. Oh, good. 00:25:59.003 --> 00:26:04.734 - I'm going to start rocking. Okay. Okay. You do say common council versus council. 00:26:06.242 --> 00:26:15.081 - Shoot, okay. Well, council is this short. I think I said, no, actually, I think, I think I've said council 00:26:15.081 --> 00:26:23.508 - office. I don't think I've ever said common council office. Listen, council office. See if I. Give me 00:26:23.508 --> 00:26:31.769 - a moment for me to interject something. Please. That's why you're here. My initial plan was just to 00:26:31.769 --> 00:26:35.486 - listen. Two foot rule. I'm not good at this. 00:26:37.698 --> 00:26:45.472 - Are you planning on regrading the position before you post it? That's the hope. If you are, you might 00:26:45.472 --> 00:26:50.654 - want to consider some of the phrasing that you're using in terms of 00:26:50.882 --> 00:26:56.378 - received exercise and everything else, because part of that goes into the rubric that the HR department 00:26:56.378 --> 00:27:01.663 - uses. And so there are some things where you say independent judgment actually will grade higher as 00:27:01.663 --> 00:27:07.318 - opposed to considerable or professional judgment. If they're writing policy themselves, that will actually 00:27:07.318 --> 00:27:12.709 - impact versus if they just are on the receiving end of it and execute it. And I just, I want to throw 00:27:12.709 --> 00:27:18.205 - that out there. That's what, this is actually the intent that I was trying to get at here is to elevate 00:27:18.205 --> 00:27:20.848 - it. And so that's why, so, but I don't know if I, 00:27:20.848 --> 00:27:28.721 - And the other part about that is, well, oh, no, because your employees don't serve at your pleasure, 00:27:28.721 --> 00:27:36.594 - right? They're hired, so they're not appointees. Nevermind. So are we, if I go back to the beginning 00:27:36.594 --> 00:27:44.779 - here, it says job creating 12s. Is that currently an 11? No, it's currently a 12. Oh. I just highlighted 00:27:44.779 --> 00:27:49.534 - it to be like, who knows what it will be once we reevaluate. 00:27:49.858 --> 00:27:59.339 - So do we have consulted with HR about the process of? Well, yeah, the process, yes. So once we agree 00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:08.819 - on the job description, we'll then start the process of getting it evaluated before posted. OK. Yes. 00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:18.300 - I clearly actually anticipated my own concern now. I brought this up earlier. It shows up right here 00:28:18.300 --> 00:28:19.614 - very clearly. 00:28:19.746 --> 00:28:26.170 - So in coordination with the council president and consistent with applicable city policies that human 00:28:26.170 --> 00:28:32.595 - resources procedures, exercises, supervisory authority over council staff, including participation in 00:28:32.595 --> 00:28:39.271 - recruitment, interviewing, selection, work assignment, performance, management, professional development, 00:28:39.271 --> 00:28:46.136 - discipline, where appropriate recommendations concerning termination, may recommend revisions to subordinate 00:28:46.136 --> 00:28:49.726 - job descriptions and organizational structure to improve 00:28:49.826 --> 00:29:00.007 - council office effectively. So instead of terminate employment, which is what is in the crossed out 00:29:00.007 --> 00:29:10.596 - text, you have recommend recommendations concerning termination. But won't this position have the power 00:29:10.596 --> 00:29:19.454 - to terminate employees? I mean, I think should, right? Yeah. So we should adjust that. 00:29:24.194 --> 00:29:34.159 - Okay, so I will say, in both cases, I'll take away the recommend, yes. And more appropriate decisions 00:29:34.159 --> 00:29:43.342 - concerning termination may recommend revisions, so actually may make revisions to subordinate 00:29:43.342 --> 00:29:53.502 - job descriptions and organizational structure to improve council items. Are you okay? You can't all go. 00:29:53.698 --> 00:30:10.871 - You can't all leave. To improve cancel out the effectiveness. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder like in coordination 00:30:10.871 --> 00:30:18.302 - is maybe the wrong verb there though. Right. 00:30:27.202 --> 00:30:38.020 - Is there a better word? Well, because the coordination suggests that the council president is also doing 00:30:38.020 --> 00:30:49.662 - these things. Right. So, so consultation. Yes, right. Consultation better better. Yeah, now I'm wondering about. 00:30:52.258 --> 00:30:59.618 - So including participating in recruitment, interviewing selection, work assignment, performance management, 00:30:59.618 --> 00:31:06.841 - professional development, discipline, and where appropriate decisions. So you have somebody participating 00:31:06.841 --> 00:31:14.269 - in decisions. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not right. You should have a make-up decisions. OK, so including. 00:31:14.269 --> 00:31:21.152 - Maybe just delete participating in, including recruitment, interviewing selection. Yeah, that sounds 00:31:21.152 --> 00:31:22.174 - good. Perfect. 00:31:22.754 --> 00:31:29.028 - And recruit okay so let's read again in consultation with the council president and consistent with 00:31:29.028 --> 00:31:35.364 - applicable city policies and human resources procedures exercises supervisory authority over council 00:31:35.364 --> 00:31:40.446 - staff, including recruitment interviewing selection work assignment performance. 00:31:40.578 --> 00:31:47.810 - performance management, professional development, discipline, and where appropriate decisions concerning 00:31:47.810 --> 00:31:54.974 - termination may make revisions to subordinate job descriptions and organizational structures to improve 00:31:54.974 --> 00:32:03.102 - council office effectiveness. Yep. Okay. So structures, I would put the S in there. Thanks. Okay. Difficulty of work. 00:32:03.362 --> 00:32:09.599 - The work is highly complex and requires the application of advanced legal knowledge policy judgment 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:16.210 - and administrative leadership to address novel sensitive and high impact issues facing the common council 00:32:16.210 --> 00:32:18.206 - and actually the city you know. 00:32:20.962 --> 00:32:27.483 - Because it's not just facing the common council, but it's like, because if we're doing an ordinance 00:32:27.483 --> 00:32:34.200 - to change the UDO, like that's not, the sensitivity is not, it faces the council. It's the sensitivity 00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:40.852 - is like, this is a thing that matters to the city, right? So should I say common council and the city 00:32:40.852 --> 00:32:44.830 - of Bloomington? Yes. Or the residents of Bloomington, right? 00:32:47.234 --> 00:32:54.205 - Maybe the city and residents of Bloomington. And its residents? Yeah. The incumbent must interpret and 00:32:54.205 --> 00:33:01.515 - apply a broad range of laws, regulations and procedures while simultaneously managing competing priorities. 00:33:01.515 --> 00:33:08.419 - And then we didn't like political considerations earlier. So should we take it out here? Yes. Because 00:33:08.419 --> 00:33:15.390 - you don't want this person making political considerations, right? Yes. What I said in my comment was, 00:33:15.714 --> 00:33:23.687 - They could warn. Perhaps we could rephrase to say a folding the council's role as legislative body and 00:33:23.687 --> 00:33:31.582 - final fiscal authority. Okay. Um, I'll put that at the end. Um, So that's the only political thing is 00:33:31.582 --> 00:33:39.400 - just asserting that we, you know, have our own powers. There was a, I think when I originally bought 00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:40.638 - this up though, 00:33:40.770 --> 00:33:47.921 - My thinking was that, and this was also building off the way I think are kind of we've all made around 00:33:47.921 --> 00:33:53.406 - how, I mean, at least in my tenure, the type of memos that we get for example. 00:33:54.178 --> 00:33:59.582 - And for context, I teach memo writing, and I always tell people when they write memos that you need 00:33:59.582 --> 00:34:05.094 - to tell the person the implications through multiple lenses of the decisions that they're making. And 00:34:05.094 --> 00:34:10.552 - if you're giving somebody advice, you might say, yeah, this is the decision. If you want to do this, 00:34:10.552 --> 00:34:16.226 - then you should do this. If you want to do this, then you should do this, is the way you write. We often 00:34:16.226 --> 00:34:19.198 - just get summaries, which is, this is what's going on. 00:34:19.714 --> 00:34:25.025 - And the space in which you can act, you can approve or disprove. This is roughly what the memos that 00:34:25.025 --> 00:34:30.546 - we get. Very rarely do we get things that are like, you know, like what we got recent, what we got right 00:34:30.546 --> 00:34:35.962 - before our staff left about PUDs where it's like, you can do this, but you can't do this and you can't 00:34:35.962 --> 00:34:41.326 - write. And we don't often get advice. Um, and I would love advice. And so that's what I was trying to 00:34:41.326 --> 00:34:43.166 - also to capture here a little bit. 00:34:45.122 --> 00:34:53.818 - That's not what I would understand reading the phrase polynomial considerations. Exactly. But I do wonder 00:34:53.818 --> 00:35:02.513 - whether, I mean, maybe we've already captured that by talking about the sensitive issues, how they matter 00:35:02.513 --> 00:35:10.717 - to the city of Bloomington as residents. I think public consequences actually might cover that. Oh, 00:35:10.717 --> 00:35:13.342 - good. Yeah. Okay. So you think, 00:35:13.570 --> 00:35:22.526 - Let me, sorry, I was in that. So replace, upholding the council's role as legislative body and final 00:35:22.526 --> 00:35:31.483 - authority. So I'll add that at the end here. And then, does this need a that? And then you said, you 00:35:31.483 --> 00:35:40.350 - said what? Oh, just in the next sentence, it says the role regularly involves time of sensitive and 00:35:40.350 --> 00:35:43.454 - public consequences, which I think 00:35:43.778 --> 00:35:59.261 - Um, it's actually more what we're talking about than like political considerations. Yeah. Agreed. 00:35:59.261 --> 00:36:11.742 - Very good. Are we happy with this? Yes, sir. Right. Let's go around with this. 00:36:18.594 --> 00:36:26.266 - balanced well reason and objective legal and strategic advice. And so I capture that there again, the 00:36:26.266 --> 00:36:33.637 - strategic part to council members, particularly where legal risk policy disagreement or competing 00:36:33.637 --> 00:36:41.158 - institutional interests are present. And then I added the part about provides legal opinions during 00:36:41.158 --> 00:36:47.326 - public council meetings. I know that that's something that's very stressful. Yes. 00:36:47.682 --> 00:36:57.595 - People should know that it will be expected. Yeah, I agree. Thank you for adding that. And then I wonder 00:36:57.595 --> 00:37:07.224 - here, like, you know, so we said maybe called on to work in the evenings under weekends. They do like 00:37:07.224 --> 00:37:16.382 - it's not maybe called on the person. Well, the evenings is will happen. The weekends may happen. 00:37:17.378 --> 00:37:28.352 - You know, I think there should be an expectation that, you know, hours are irregular, right? Yes. 00:37:28.352 --> 00:37:38.654 - There we go. Incompan should expect irregular hours. Including evenings and weekends, yeah. 00:37:48.802 --> 00:37:58.424 - This will include evenings. Incumbent should expect irregular hours. No, but irregular hours. Evenings 00:37:58.424 --> 00:38:07.859 - and occasional weekends? Give me the full sentence out. Oh, sorry. Incumbent should expect irregular 00:38:07.859 --> 00:38:17.854 - hours given the council's scheduled period. This will include evenings and on occasion for blank weekends. 00:38:22.306 --> 00:38:30.680 - If we're setting up the office in a way that's functional, they should not have to work most weekends. 00:38:30.680 --> 00:38:39.217 - I think the expectation is... That's a big if. Right. I would not say rare. I'm talking about occasions, 00:38:39.217 --> 00:38:47.591 - and on occasion. Occasion. Yes. That's a fantastic thing. And then it says scheduled evening meetings. 00:38:47.591 --> 00:38:51.006 - Well, we probably don't need that last... 00:38:51.714 --> 00:38:59.375 - Yeah, right. Yeah, that's right. Is it worth saying council generally meets on Wednesday nights? Well, 00:38:59.375 --> 00:39:07.111 - we also meet on Tuesday nights for Jack Hopkins, right? But like, regularly, like the full body is that 00:39:07.111 --> 00:39:14.846 - like, you should not expect to have Wednesday nights available. It's like, basically what we're saying. 00:39:32.514 --> 00:39:58.787 - I love typing. Now it breaks the cycle. No, that's hard. Could we put it after the unforeseen complications? 00:39:58.787 --> 00:40:01.438 - Thank you. 00:40:01.858 --> 00:40:12.392 - Maintains frequent contact, but okay. Any last thoughts? Last, maybe going back to the top, we didn't 00:40:12.392 --> 00:40:23.443 - really decide on title. I floated this Chief Attorney to the Common Council and Director of Common Council 00:40:23.443 --> 00:40:29.950 - Office title, but it works. It is very mouth, it's a mouthful. 00:40:31.362 --> 00:40:41.278 - Chief, chief attorney and director. Yeah. Maybe you take away that. So it could be chief, could be chief 00:40:41.278 --> 00:40:51.099 - attorney and director of the common council office. Yeah. Yes. Okay. May I ask a question? Please. What 00:40:51.099 --> 00:40:58.654 - is the value of adding word chief? Um, it sounds more important. Yeah, I think. 00:40:59.490 --> 00:41:08.232 - And it implies there's another attorney. When I hear the word chief, it implies to me that there's somebody 00:41:08.232 --> 00:41:16.570 - who's directing the chief in some way, shape, or form. There's a mayor, or there's somebody above them 00:41:16.570 --> 00:41:25.069 - in some way. Oh, that's interesting. I hear it as a diminishment. Really? Yeah. It is a change of title. 00:41:25.069 --> 00:41:27.902 - I thought it was just going to be. 00:41:28.162 --> 00:41:40.267 - I don't know. Maybe we should ask the chief deputy. I was going to say in most of the conferences that 00:41:40.267 --> 00:41:52.254 - we've been to, it's always a council attorney. There's not the word chief. There's something implied. 00:41:52.706 --> 00:41:58.939 - rising to that level that you're kind of referencing. That's interesting. I think it's a more common 00:41:58.939 --> 00:42:05.111 - knowledge type of phrasing. Yeah, okay. That makes sense. I don't mind the word. It doesn't mean we 00:42:05.111 --> 00:42:11.468 - don't. But the reason you're the chief deputy is because there are other deputies. Exactly. You're the 00:42:11.468 --> 00:42:15.294 - big dog. You're the big dog. See, that's how we interpret it. 00:42:15.842 --> 00:42:22.821 - I mean, we could just say council attorney and director of the common council office. I mean, I'm happy 00:42:22.821 --> 00:42:29.665 - with that. What is Margie Rice's position? Corporation council. Yes. I mean, it could just be council 00:42:29.665 --> 00:42:36.375 - attorney and director of the common council office. It's kind of reads like it's the chief attorney 00:42:36.375 --> 00:42:43.287 - of the common council office. Right. Yes, I think that's fair. So council attorney and director of the 00:42:43.287 --> 00:42:44.830 - common council office. 00:42:45.698 --> 00:42:58.678 - But yes, let's make it legal state of counsel, lead legislative counsel. Now, thank you for the contribution. 00:42:58.678 --> 00:43:07.646 - By the way, that's how we should do public. Okay. Is there anybody want to. 00:43:07.938 --> 00:43:21.544 - Any of you AIs want to apply what I've been thinking? No. That's what AI sounds like in your head. Any 00:43:21.544 --> 00:43:29.470 - other thoughts on this? Okay. So last question I'm here is, 00:43:30.274 --> 00:43:36.035 - Um, because I think we can take on the question of for your governance, like, as, as, as we get the 00:43:36.035 --> 00:43:41.853 - person in, because I think we dealt a little bit with it within the document. But I do think that we 00:43:41.853 --> 00:43:47.729 - should advise ourselves by how boards. Right? I mean, I think that we have a perfect natural model to 00:43:47.729 --> 00:43:51.070 - look at. Um, the, the last question is that I'm going to. 00:43:51.170 --> 00:43:58.579 - Be drafting a memo to the council to go out tomorrow in an agenda. Is there anything so from what from 00:43:58.579 --> 00:44:03.326 - our discussions with what I'm saying in the memo is that here is. 00:44:03.522 --> 00:44:11.312 - Here is the job description that we would like your approval on that we have to vote for according to 00:44:11.312 --> 00:44:19.101 - our charge and that the second one was a brief update on the conversation that we had with the Robert 00:44:19.101 --> 00:44:26.814 - Haft people as a model of the type of engagement we can do and that we are also asking for a vote on 00:44:26.814 --> 00:44:32.542 - item five in our charge, namely our ability to start talking directly with 00:44:32.706 --> 00:44:42.979 - or people who could, I'll think of this in a more eloquent way, but people who can in the interim service 00:44:42.979 --> 00:44:52.865 - as counsel, attorney, et cetera. Okay, so both asking approval to engage somebody, a firm like Robert 00:44:52.865 --> 00:45:02.654 - Half. Correct. And to post the job and to engage either through Robert Half or directly an attorney. 00:45:02.946 --> 00:45:12.096 - a temporary attorney. Yes. Because that could be a separate thing from Roe's. That's a good point. Should 00:45:12.096 --> 00:45:20.815 - I separate those questions or should I just say that we want to have the authority as was originally 00:45:20.815 --> 00:45:29.533 - envisioned in the charge. We would like to have the authority to engage with external entities, both 00:45:29.533 --> 00:45:32.382 - to assist in the hiring process, 00:45:32.546 --> 00:45:41.112 - process as we deem relevant and to find interim help. Something along those lines? Yeah, one thing, 00:45:41.112 --> 00:45:49.850 - too. Please. It might be good to proactively answer some potential questions that might be asked. OK. 00:45:49.850 --> 00:45:58.673 - Who is going to determine the firm? How is that going to decide those sorts of things? You can preempt 00:45:58.673 --> 00:46:02.014 - some of the questions that might come. 00:46:02.626 --> 00:46:09.598 - And do we have an answer to those questions? I mean, do we, the broad guidelines by which we'd like 00:46:09.598 --> 00:46:16.710 - to operate on this type of decision, do we want to do it as a, you know, as a collective? Do you want 00:46:16.710 --> 00:46:23.822 - me to go and find people that we then bring to a meeting for us to decide, like, how would we like to 00:46:23.822 --> 00:46:31.422 - do it? Are you able to find people? I don't want to overdo it. Okay. It might be helpful if we could have a, 00:46:31.842 --> 00:46:38.415 - list of three or four and just pros and cons of each, and we don't need to like interview them all, 00:46:38.415 --> 00:46:44.988 - but if you could just send us a couple and- And then we decide this way? Sure. Yeah. Does that seem 00:46:44.988 --> 00:46:51.824 - reasonable? Two or three would be fun. Yeah. But do you think we should separate this question, namely, 00:46:51.824 --> 00:46:58.529 - so that everybody's aware that we're going to pursue at least three things, which is putting out this 00:46:58.529 --> 00:46:59.646 - job description, 00:46:59.746 --> 00:47:07.789 - get potentially engaging with somebody to help with recruitment, and certainly getting somebody to fill 00:47:07.789 --> 00:47:15.677 - in in the short term. But what that somebody looks like could be a lot of things. I mean, it could be 00:47:15.677 --> 00:47:23.488 - Larry might want to work with our time. I mean, it might be worth having the discussion on what that 00:47:23.488 --> 00:47:28.670 - looks like as a full council, but saying we will take your advice. 00:47:28.930 --> 00:47:34.801 - We certainly don't want to come. Do we agree? We do not want to come back to council because it just 00:47:34.801 --> 00:47:40.673 - puts us on the fear timeline. We don't need to come back to council. So if we had somebody tomorrow, 00:47:40.673 --> 00:47:46.719 - Thursday, who says, hey, I'd be happy to work part-time for the council as legal. We don't need to have 00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:50.846 - to go back to council and say, is everybody okay with us hiring Larry? 00:47:52.322 --> 00:47:58.626 - I agree with you. Okay. And similarly, we don't want to have to go back to the council and say, are 00:47:58.626 --> 00:48:04.992 - you all okay with us engaging with Robert Half? Like, you trust that the four of us have made a good 00:48:04.992 --> 00:48:11.422 - decision here? Yes. So would the four of us also decide on the temporary? I think that's a good idea. 00:48:11.422 --> 00:48:13.502 - I think that's a very good idea. 00:48:13.698 --> 00:48:20.790 - I just really believe that in the multitude of council, there's safety. I just think it's a lot better 00:48:20.790 --> 00:48:27.881 - to do it this way. Any other concerns you might think that would come up? Maybe further down the road, 00:48:27.881 --> 00:48:35.042 - the one thing that popped into my mind is it does take a minute to get people as vendors into the city. 00:48:35.042 --> 00:48:41.996 - Which is one of the reasons why Robert Athens was a good choice. I think if I could also say I think 00:48:41.996 --> 00:48:43.166 - separating those 00:48:43.618 --> 00:48:51.442 - make it easier to move forward. Good point. Good point. And then the other thing that comes to my mind 00:48:51.442 --> 00:48:59.342 - is the question about finances. And so I imagine the guiding principle that I have now is that we would 00:48:59.342 --> 00:49:07.470 - operate within the budget that we already have, essentially. It's like that would be our sort of immediate 00:49:07.470 --> 00:49:08.382 - constraint. 00:49:09.474 --> 00:49:15.466 - because anyways, anything about that, we'd have to go to council to get some type of appropriation or 00:49:15.466 --> 00:49:21.517 - something like that. Even though I've talked to the mayor, she's willing to do that if necessary. But, 00:49:21.517 --> 00:49:27.686 - any other? I think you guys might want to also discuss timeline. Yeah. And get some milestones in place. 00:49:27.686 --> 00:49:33.736 - Good point. Okay. Okay. There's a recess coming up, but then what? Yeah. Realistically, if you put out 00:49:33.736 --> 00:49:37.790 - the job description, it will take some time to get someone in. Yeah. 00:49:40.226 --> 00:49:49.428 - Okay, excellent. Wait, did you mean right now we should think about timeline? Yes. Yeah, I think there's 00:49:49.428 --> 00:49:58.279 - a little bit more of a urgency. There's two paths that you're on, right? There's the immediate need. 00:49:58.279 --> 00:50:07.656 - I mean, there's a potential regular session next week. There's two more months. So can we make a temporary 00:50:07.656 --> 00:50:10.110 - hire in the next two weeks? 00:50:10.690 --> 00:50:19.996 - That's my hope. Can we meet again as a committee? Yeah, for that we'll refer to meeting again. And then 00:50:19.996 --> 00:50:29.033 - I would hope that we would get who we're aiming at, you know, having somebody established by our end 00:50:29.033 --> 00:50:37.086 - of our recess. Yeah. I think that's doable. Yeah, I do too. I have an optimistic essence. 00:50:37.442 --> 00:50:45.416 - What is the next time, as you know, because next week is the state of the city. The 31st, right? Yes. 00:50:45.416 --> 00:50:53.313 - We could meet before that if anyone really. I also I don't know if you all have noticed, but. We may 00:50:53.313 --> 00:51:01.522 - not need to meet. I'm debating. Also the bank saying this out loud, but he said it in the other meeting. 00:51:01.522 --> 00:51:05.118 - Yeah, I'm debating whether we whether we need 00:51:05.282 --> 00:51:11.759 - whether we need to have a meeting on April 1st at all, because at the moment, we have no legislation 00:51:11.759 --> 00:51:18.301 - scheduled, no reports scheduled. Well, so as we bounce helpful to them. Well, correct. I mean, but if 00:51:18.301 --> 00:51:24.585 - we do that, then I think that's obvious. But if we don't tomorrow, then we might want to, I mean, 00:51:24.585 --> 00:51:31.447 - let's see, there's no point for us meeting for meetings. Yes, we don't. Yeah, we don't. It's very unusual, 00:51:31.447 --> 00:51:34.654 - right? But it's just we have things that will be, 00:51:34.882 --> 00:51:42.866 - The following of the 22nd, but we don't have anything. It was your little phone. In a first, could we 00:51:42.866 --> 00:51:51.241 - do a 545? For the committee. Yeah. I hate to schedule anything less than an hour. Well, if we're expecting 00:51:51.241 --> 00:51:59.068 - not to have that meeting, though, but we schedule it for an hour and a half. Why don't we why don't 00:51:59.068 --> 00:52:01.886 - we just do it when council meeting? 00:52:03.042 --> 00:52:09.065 - You could also wait to see how Wednesday goes and then do a full. And if there is no meeting, 00:52:09.065 --> 00:52:15.344 - that's good. Yeah, that works. I will put it on. But actually, actually think about this slightly 00:52:15.344 --> 00:52:22.329 - differently. It might be if what we'd like to do is get some interim people. So let's assume that everything 00:52:22.329 --> 00:52:26.814 - goes well tomorrow. Everybody goes, yes, please go ahead and do that. 00:52:27.170 --> 00:52:33.046 - I mean, there's a, there's a case where they go, no, don't go ahead and do that, which changes our timeline. 00:52:33.046 --> 00:52:38.276 - But let's say they say, go ahead and do that. Then this would give me time. If we said Thursday, 00:52:38.276 --> 00:52:43.667 - for example, for me, it would give me time to go and like, collect the data, talk to people, right? 00:52:43.667 --> 00:52:49.273 - So that we have some options by, you know, to actually discuss it. Cause if we meet right away, I mean, 00:52:49.273 --> 00:52:53.694 - we may not have those considering that we have state of the city as the 31st and. 00:52:54.978 --> 00:53:04.039 - I have a hard stop at 630, but I can do before then. What are we talking about now? Could we tentatively 00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:13.101 - hold 530 on Thursday the 2nd? Oh, Thursday the 2nd. I actually don't work that day, so I could do before 00:53:13.101 --> 00:53:21.731 - that if we could meet during work hours. So that would work better for people. I am not. OK. Sounds 00:53:21.731 --> 00:53:23.198 - like it doesn't. 00:53:24.290 --> 00:53:32.257 - Um, so. I usually say that this particular one, I couldn't. Okay. No, the earlier timeline. I can do 00:53:32.257 --> 00:53:40.303 - an earlier time. We're talking about the second. Yeah. Okay. Does that work for. So five 30 to six 30 00:53:40.303 --> 00:53:48.428 - or seven, six 30. And then we can hold that. And if we just dispose with the council meeting, then why 00:53:48.428 --> 00:53:52.766 - don't we just meet when we would have met for council. 00:53:52.962 --> 00:54:01.453 - Okay. Yeah. I placed goals on rooms. Thank you. And I think on some clerk staffs, I think we'll have. 00:54:01.453 --> 00:54:09.861 - On both wings? Yeah. Worst case, I'll let this be here on Wednesday, so you guys can be. Chief Clerk 00:54:09.861 --> 00:54:18.186 - McDowell is a member of this committee, so. Oh, my God. An official. So I have a question before we 00:54:18.186 --> 00:54:20.350 - adjourn. Did anyone else? 00:54:20.770 --> 00:54:28.348 - Well, just perfect. So Thursday, April 2nd, five 30 to six 30. And then I do also have a whole from 00:54:28.348 --> 00:54:36.002 - five to seven in this room on April 1st. Okay. So I'm eating is canceled. So if someone could follow 00:54:36.002 --> 00:54:43.581 - up with work email, just for Western S as soon as whatever happens tomorrow happens. Yes. Just so I 00:54:43.581 --> 00:54:48.734 - can release the room. Thank you. So my ask to you is, um, so we're, 00:54:48.962 --> 00:54:57.332 - The executive session is tomorrow at five. And we start at five. Is it scheduled for five? Is it scheduled 00:54:57.332 --> 00:55:05.154 - for five? Five to six. And I wonder if we could do it. It's scheduled for five to six. We can't. We 00:55:05.154 --> 00:55:13.289 - have to have 48 hours notice at home. Oh, we do even for an executive session? Yeah. We're running from 00:55:13.289 --> 00:55:18.686 - the... Okay. My second ask is, so the whole thing, we have a dispute 00:55:18.882 --> 00:55:26.307 - interpreting our legal authority to require reasonable conditions and the nature of those reasonable 00:55:26.307 --> 00:55:33.806 - conditions. I'm sorry? Yeah, are you saying can we get external counsel tomorrow, for example? Can we 00:55:33.806 --> 00:55:41.232 - get external counsel within the next thing? I mean, we have until May 13th to make a decision on the 00:55:41.232 --> 00:55:48.510 - law. I'm not saying we take that, but I'm just saying that we contract out for an attorney who has 00:55:48.930 --> 00:55:57.967 - expertise in land use planning, government affairs, whatever. We can settle this dispute so we're not 00:55:57.967 --> 00:56:07.447 - arguing the veracity of, you know. If you all agree, will you agree with the following, with the following 00:56:07.447 --> 00:56:18.078 - set of reasoning? It was under, as council president, I could have said any charge I wanted to the committee. We agree. 00:56:19.170 --> 00:56:26.896 - However, I chose to give the charge up to vote, right? And so I mean, the question is whether, do I 00:56:26.896 --> 00:56:34.855 - have the authority to, if there's somebody who's already in the city system that we could, some lawyer 00:56:34.855 --> 00:56:42.735 - that we already contract with in some way, and we do have funds to do this, so it's not a question of 00:56:42.735 --> 00:56:47.294 - allocating the funds, do I have the authority to say, hey, 00:56:47.522 --> 00:56:54.953 - Robert Taft or whatever, Taft Law or whatever. Hey, Ice Miller, can you please be on a call tomorrow? 00:56:54.953 --> 00:57:02.311 - Can I do that? Well, I think in terms of being on a call tomorrow, I think they need to do research. 00:57:02.311 --> 00:57:09.669 - I think that, well, the question is, so we have 13 reasons why it's delicious. If you just leave it, 00:57:09.669 --> 00:57:17.246 - go ahead, Bill, because it's just, I mean, because the question on the first topic is the generality of 00:57:17.410 --> 00:57:23.501 - Reasonable conditions, but but so so how about how about I find okay? I don't know if we could find 00:57:23.501 --> 00:57:29.593 - it within the week. It doesn't have to be Yeah, we need to have somebody hired to do a couple hours 00:57:29.593 --> 00:57:35.989 - of research to figure out Yeah, are we in within our authority somebody would give us some legal opinion 00:57:35.989 --> 00:57:42.750 - basically. Yep Okay, now we'll settle this and we don't have to go tit-for-tat corporation counselors and Kate 00:57:43.170 --> 00:57:49.131 - And I talked to Kate in her favor to this. Yeah. I mean, I also think we have a long history, though, 00:57:49.131 --> 00:57:55.033 - of every single time we've done PODs. I don't think that a single, well, this now is getting outside 00:57:55.033 --> 00:58:00.994 - of the question. So we can talk about this when. I think we're within an hour, right? But I just want 00:58:00.994 --> 00:58:06.837 - to settle this so that we don't spend time. Yeah. But let's adjourn this meeting in because I think 00:58:06.837 --> 00:58:12.798 - the, I do think that's an interesting question to generally have that's more strategic than Ben said. 00:58:13.282 --> 00:58:23.880 - Can I just share a bit of information? It'll take a minute. So South Bend, Evansville, Terre Haute, 00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:34.584 - and Lafayette all have an administrator. No, all their administration work is done by our trust. And 00:58:34.584 --> 00:58:41.790 - they hire legal counsel on contact. Just so you know, we are right. 00:58:42.434 --> 00:58:51.080 - Well, we are unique in having the staff. And also, I think that it's important to say that the clerk's 00:58:51.080 --> 00:58:59.559 - office has been very clear that there's a lot of things that council took from the clerk's office in 00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:07.198 - 1988. And so I think that there's, you know, I mean, I support that. I am a devolutionist. 00:59:08.002 --> 00:59:16.119 - May I have leave to make a couple of quick comments and things like, like, you said, I think it's totally, 00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:24.085 - I mean, this question is pertinent. Yeah. Well, some of that's not related to that directly. The clerk's 00:59:24.085 --> 00:59:32.126 - office has been administering and helping the council heavily and working for the council for years, but. 00:59:32.354 --> 00:59:38.607 - far more so over the last two years. This is the second time you've had a complete turnover and large 00:59:38.607 --> 00:59:44.922 - vacancy in your office that needed additional staff support. Last time it lasted for about nine months 00:59:44.922 --> 00:59:51.298 - total in terms of heavy staff time, from the time of the vacancy occurred, the hiring process, and then 00:59:51.298 --> 00:59:57.613 - the training of the new council attorney, because even on their first day, there was no council member 00:59:57.613 --> 01:00:02.334 - here who actually helped with their orientation. They do the HR orientation, 01:00:02.722 --> 01:00:09.003 - but literally knowing where to hang their coat, or go to their restroom, or where their coat machines 01:00:09.003 --> 01:00:15.160 - are, and all the things that you actually have. The new staff member that fell to clerk staff, that 01:00:15.160 --> 01:00:21.564 - day in particular was me. But there are clerk staff who have continued to assist in training, answering 01:00:21.564 --> 01:00:27.722 - questions, and that did not stop after three months. That stopped pretty much right around the time 01:00:27.722 --> 01:00:32.094 - they gave their notice to leave. And I want to underscore that because 01:00:32.578 --> 01:00:39.984 - Um, from what I saw some comments made about not wanting. Job support to come from the clerk's office. 01:00:39.984 --> 01:00:47.319 - Personally, I support, I find apparently insulting to the staff members who've been doing. A buttload 01:00:47.319 --> 01:00:54.654 - of work on the council for the last several years. As far as having the assistance come to your point 01:00:54.654 --> 01:01:00.478 - about. Devolution or good wrapping and administrating coming through the office. 01:01:00.738 --> 01:01:06.958 - I am to quote a former council member, I see the value in it and I also see the costs. So I think that's 01:01:06.958 --> 01:01:13.179 - a further conversation. There are times when I'm like, yeah, that'd be great. And we can do these things 01:01:13.179 --> 01:01:19.162 - with the council and make sure we streamline and do project management so that everybody has systems 01:01:19.162 --> 01:01:25.146 - in place. And I nerd out over that stuff in general. So I love it. And then I think that some of the 01:01:25.146 --> 01:01:26.686 - things that come with it. 01:01:26.818 --> 01:01:33.242 - Yes, I just want to kind of throw that out there because what I really, really don't want to do is disrespect 01:01:33.242 --> 01:01:39.198 - my staff, you know, throw it my way and I get it, but depersonalize it and recognize there are people 01:01:39.198 --> 01:01:45.097 - who have been doing amazing work on behalf of the council for the last several years, two of them in 01:01:45.097 --> 01:01:50.995 - this room in particular, but the others have done so as well. Yes. I'm concerned about the vacancies 01:01:50.995 --> 01:01:55.550 - that are going to occur in the first week of May. Your researcher is leaving. 01:01:56.226 --> 01:02:02.661 - And at least one, if not two, of your fellows are leaving. So by May 8, you will have zero staff again, 01:02:02.661 --> 01:02:09.034 - unless you get somebody hired in. We also have the accessibility guidelines that are coming into play. 01:02:09.034 --> 01:02:15.407 - And those are a hard start date of April 24. So you have to have somebody who can come in and actually 01:02:15.407 --> 01:02:18.686 - work on that in terms of the administrative council. 01:02:19.746 --> 01:02:25.585 - whatever day you post for the new position, when you're actually doing it, you have to have those discussions 01:02:25.585 --> 01:02:30.893 - about where it's going to be posted and how long it's going to be posted. If you want to get a good 01:02:30.893 --> 01:02:36.254 - pool of candidates, there are minimum 30 days, especially for hiring an attorney. It's going to take 01:02:36.254 --> 01:02:41.615 - some time to actually go through and you should hire slowly for this position, which is very painful 01:02:41.615 --> 01:02:47.454 - to say because it feels so urgent right now. I know it's a big opportunity to look at the process as a whole. 01:02:47.938 --> 01:02:54.473 - But if you rush to hire somebody, run the risk of hiring somebody who doesn't have a full grasp of what 01:02:54.473 --> 01:03:01.197 - they're facing, and lawyers want a lawyer, and clerks want a clerk, and administrators want to administer, 01:03:01.197 --> 01:03:07.480 - and you're asking for somebody who can do all three of those things in one, you should really think 01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:13.952 - about that. And last coming, but the best case scenario I could sketch out, everything goes absolutely 01:03:13.952 --> 01:03:17.534 - perfectly, starting from the timing in this meeting till 01:03:17.730 --> 01:03:26.208 - posting and hiring. Best case scenario, you'll have somebody in by the end of June, and I don't see 01:03:26.208 --> 01:03:35.280 - that happening. But I'm a pessimist. She's an optimist. I'm a pessimist. And last, the role of the clerk's 01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:44.606 - office. Again, this is taking staffing away from our office. And I know... I don't know how to say this well. 01:03:50.530 --> 01:03:56.572 - When asked to hire some of the 200 boards and commissions, so we now have a dedicated staffer as far 01:03:56.572 --> 01:04:02.854 - as I can tell is kind of running ragged, doing all these things with boards and commissions to the point 01:04:02.854 --> 01:04:09.136 - where I'm like, wow, that was a much bigger job than I expected. And I know you guys need help and we're 01:04:09.136 --> 01:04:15.298 - trying to do it and it's taking time now. Council, or Sophia and Colleen prepared the packet last week 01:04:15.298 --> 01:04:18.110 - and thank goodness Colleen had done so before. 01:04:18.594 --> 01:04:25.281 - Does it help a lot in terms of familiarity with the processes? And it's not something that personally 01:04:25.281 --> 01:04:32.033 - I object to. I don't want to see a loss of continuity. I want council to continue to actually operate. 01:04:32.033 --> 01:04:38.654 - I don't want the city to have any stumbles. But I do think there is some consideration that council, 01:04:38.654 --> 01:04:45.341 - not just the hiring, but the council should talk about in terms of the time and resources the clerk's 01:04:45.341 --> 01:04:48.094 - office has lost in their work in terms of 01:04:48.258 --> 01:04:57.411 - supporting council staff and council members. And it is real. And it is, what do you call it? Something 01:04:57.411 --> 01:05:06.213 - that you can enumerate. What is that word? Yeah, countable. Quantifiable. I don't want to end up in 01:05:06.213 --> 01:05:15.102 - a situation that we ended up in last time where there was no public acknowledgement of staff for the 01:05:15.102 --> 01:05:16.862 - work that they did. 01:05:17.218 --> 01:05:23.815 - from either the council as a whole or from council leadership. That happened last time. I don't want 01:05:23.815 --> 01:05:30.609 - it to happen again because y'all know I think my staff is underpaid, but I also think they are at least 01:05:30.609 --> 01:05:37.141 - told that they are valued by me. But sometimes even my saying is not going to be enough. And again, 01:05:37.141 --> 01:05:43.673 - however different council members may feel about me, I really have a low tolerance for my staff not 01:05:43.673 --> 01:05:45.502 - being properly appreciated. 01:05:46.946 --> 01:05:54.846 - With that, I want to thank you. All right. Your adjournment.