WEBVTT 00:00:00.418 --> 00:00:13.022 - OK, this meeting is real. And we are Interview Committee A. Today is August 13, 2026, Thursday morning. 00:00:13.022 --> 00:00:25.141 - OK, so we are doing today a couple interviews. And obviously, this is open to the public. And so we 00:00:25.141 --> 00:00:30.110 - have both of those folks in here. Great. 00:00:30.306 --> 00:00:38.416 - Got Nancy online, Kent here, Zach here. I'm Kate Rosenberger. Hope East Osborne District 3. 00:00:38.416 --> 00:00:47.407 - Jennifer Crossley, Clerk's Office. Isak Asari, Council. I'm council as well. Okay. I'm going to start 00:00:47.407 --> 00:00:55.870 - us off. Okay. So Zach, thank you for coming today. This should be quick and fun. Have you ever. 00:00:55.970 --> 00:01:01.294 - been part of a commission, council, or board that focused on the betterment and wellness of a specific 00:01:01.294 --> 00:01:06.619 - community, particularly a minority group? If so, what was your role and what impact did it have? Yeah, 00:01:06.619 --> 00:01:11.788 - so not specifically that was dedicated solely to a specific minority group, but I have been. When I 00:01:11.788 --> 00:01:17.216 - lived in Washington, DC, I was an advisory neighborhood commissioner, which is a low level local elected 00:01:17.216 --> 00:01:22.437 - official that was in a majority black neighborhood, working class majority black neighborhood. And I 00:01:22.437 --> 00:01:23.678 - had dealt with a lot of 00:01:24.162 --> 00:01:29.413 - issues related with trying to protect a community that I think was being, there was a lot of environmental 00:01:29.413 --> 00:01:34.566 - racism going on in that community with, there was a park in my district that had been, this is an insane 00:01:34.566 --> 00:01:39.670 - story, it sounds nuts, it sounds untrue, but it is, that had chemical weapons buried in it during World 00:01:39.670 --> 00:01:44.577 - War I era and that had not been taken care of. And so my entire term was dedicated to trying to get 00:01:44.577 --> 00:01:49.828 - the National Park Service, because the National Park Service runs parks in D.C., it shouldn't, but anyway, 00:01:49.828 --> 00:01:51.742 - trying to get them to take care of it. 00:01:51.938 --> 00:01:58.897 - Yeah, so that was a lot of my time was spent on that. So, again, not something that was dedicated solely 00:01:58.897 --> 00:02:05.656 - to that, but that was a big part of my, my term. Thank you. I want to acknowledge right now that this 00:02:05.656 --> 00:02:10.494 - list of questions site was for the mission on the status of black males. 00:02:10.914 --> 00:02:17.940 - So we may have to amend some things. I think that was relevant. I read it, and I think that is relevant. 00:02:17.940 --> 00:02:24.765 - But as I look through it, I was like, yeah. Wait, I could change those words. So what inspired you to 00:02:24.765 --> 00:02:32.126 - apply for a position on the board of directors? OK, so I am very passionate about sustainable transportation. 00:02:32.126 --> 00:02:38.750 - I've been in your inbox many times on sustainable transportation issues, as I'm sure you're aware. 00:02:39.458 --> 00:02:44.598 - I am worried about the state of Bloomington Transit. This year is shaping up to be the single worst 00:02:44.598 --> 00:02:49.840 - year in change in ridership and the agency's history outside of COVID. We've got right now a 13% drop 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:55.031 - year to date. Obviously that could change before the end of the year. That's the single biggest drop 00:02:55.031 --> 00:03:00.223 - in ridership in the agency's history, at least going back to the data that I've looked at outside of 00:03:00.223 --> 00:03:05.054 - the 2020 thing, which is not entirely, that's not the agency's fault, that was just pandemic. 00:03:05.154 --> 00:03:11.029 - And I don't see a sense of urgency from many public officials yet on that. I kind of worry we're in 00:03:11.029 --> 00:03:16.963 - approaching like a death spiral in terms of losing ridership. And I worry also that we are maybe not 00:03:16.963 --> 00:03:22.369 - focusing on the essentials as much as we should, which to me is frequency, reliability, and 00:03:22.369 --> 00:03:28.244 - route optimization. Those are the three things that are the most important to me. And, yeah, sorry, 00:03:28.244 --> 00:03:31.358 - I'll talk to her. I'm a very fast talker, I'm sorry. 00:03:31.458 --> 00:03:36.372 - Frequency, reliability. And route optimization. Those are the three things I would focus on. And instead 00:03:36.372 --> 00:03:41.146 - are focusing a little bit too much, I think, on distractions, which to me is microtransit is a little 00:03:41.146 --> 00:03:45.873 - bit of a distraction. I'm skeptical of microtransit. We're only getting a handful of riders a month, 00:03:45.873 --> 00:03:50.553 - most months. We have as low as two riders per month in February of this year. That is insanely low. 00:03:50.553 --> 00:03:55.561 - And we're wasting, I think, a lot of money and time on that. I'm not opposed to microtransit as a concept, 00:03:55.561 --> 00:04:00.335 - but I am concerned we're focusing too much on things like that that are a little bit of a distraction 00:04:00.335 --> 00:04:00.990 - and should be 00:04:01.090 --> 00:04:06.293 - refocusing on reliability, frequency, and route optimization. And if I may, I went back through a whole 00:04:06.293 --> 00:04:11.446 - bunch of different documents that have been produced by Bloomington Transit, and the city, and IU even 00:04:11.446 --> 00:04:16.499 - had one of them, going back decades. And they have talked about going back all the way back to 2009, 00:04:16.499 --> 00:04:21.552 - calling for high frequency service, route optimization, cross town service, transit signal priority, 00:04:21.552 --> 00:04:24.254 - going back to decades now. And we haven't really done 00:04:24.674 --> 00:04:30.459 - and they're starting to move a little bit on signal priority, it sounds like, but a lot of we have still 00:04:30.459 --> 00:04:35.969 - have across town service. We still don't have what I consider high-frequency service. We still, and 00:04:35.969 --> 00:04:41.700 - we study after study in 2012, 2017, 2018, two in 2018, one in 2009, 2019, we've had saying, and nothing 00:04:41.700 --> 00:04:47.320 - has really happened on that. The 2019 route optimization study, which was kind of shelved after COVID 00:04:47.320 --> 00:04:52.830 - a little bit, although they did adopt some of it, called for in particular streamlining routes and, 00:04:52.962 --> 00:04:58.668 - eliminating redundancy between routes. They did do some of the eliminating redundancy, but not really 00:04:58.668 --> 00:05:04.598 - all that much. And the routes are still as circuitous and meandering as they ever were. And so we haven't 00:05:04.598 --> 00:05:10.361 - moved enough, I don't think. And instead have done things like cut late night service and sort of seed 00:05:10.361 --> 00:05:16.011 - that to Uber and Lyft and not only seed that, we're subsidizing Uber and Lyft rather than doing late 00:05:16.011 --> 00:05:21.214 - night fixed route service. Anyway, so that's a long answer to that question, but that's why. 00:05:21.986 --> 00:05:29.912 - As a as a follow up to that, is that could you talk to us a little bit about your your involvement hitherto 00:05:29.912 --> 00:05:37.325 - on with the with the board itself and and sort of what your experiences of the board? Because, yeah, 00:05:37.325 --> 00:05:44.958 - I mean, very, very noted all of the broader policy goals. And, you know, some of those sort of sit with 00:05:44.958 --> 00:05:51.710 - councils, some of those sit elsewhere. And so, you know, sort of how do you understand this 00:05:52.162 --> 00:05:57.881 - this board specifically, and talk to us a little bit about your involvement and understanding of the 00:05:57.881 --> 00:06:03.657 - board. I mean, I've watched board meetings, if that's what you're asking. Essentially, my involvement 00:06:03.657 --> 00:06:09.489 - so far is watching board meetings. But maybe more to your point is what is the role of the board? Yes. 00:06:09.489 --> 00:06:15.378 - And I watched the meeting last week, so I understand where you're coming from a little bit, what you're 00:06:15.378 --> 00:06:16.510 - looking for, Isaac. 00:06:16.994 --> 00:06:22.948 - I don't think the role of the board is to directly manage the agency or have the experience to directly 00:06:22.948 --> 00:06:28.788 - manage the agency yourself. That's the role of the management company that we've hired and the agency 00:06:28.788 --> 00:06:34.513 - staff. The role of the board is to provide independent oversight and to know what questions to ask, 00:06:34.513 --> 00:06:40.639 - when to ask them, when to push, and to know from firsthand experience from having ridden the bus regularly 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:44.990 - when they're telling, when it sounds true and when it doesn't. And also to, 00:06:45.666 --> 00:06:51.138 - Broadly, I think the major role is to push the agency in a direction towards a philosophy that makes 00:06:51.138 --> 00:06:56.934 - sense for you. And that's why I sent that letter to you guys trying to lay out what my general philosophy, 00:06:56.934 --> 00:07:02.406 - whether I'm kind of repeating some of that here now, but that's the role of the board, at least as I 00:07:02.406 --> 00:07:08.094 - see it, to push the agency in a direction to know when to push back respectfully, to dig down into data, 00:07:08.866 --> 00:07:16.465 - and to oversee things. And I have a deep data background. It's my job as a data visualization expert 00:07:16.465 --> 00:07:24.064 - and map maker. I know data well. I can push on that sort of stuff, respectfully, obviously. So yeah. 00:07:24.064 --> 00:07:31.813 - Yeah, excellent. Thank you so much. Thank you. OK, that also then made me think, because you watch the 00:07:31.813 --> 00:07:36.478 - board meetings, which is rare unless you're in them, I think. 00:07:36.642 --> 00:07:42.391 - Do you think the board is missing any representation? If so, what do you think is missing and would 00:07:42.391 --> 00:07:48.139 - you bring skills and experience to fill in those gaps? Yeah, so I'm not gonna criticize the current 00:07:48.139 --> 00:07:54.118 - board members. That's not what I'm here to do, but I do think it could use more someone who's a regular 00:07:54.118 --> 00:07:59.867 - bus rider. I'm not sure. I obviously do not, I've not been tracking the movements of the individual 00:07:59.867 --> 00:08:04.638 - members of the board. I have no idea how they get around, but I get a feeling that 00:08:04.962 --> 00:08:10.033 - there's not many regular bus riders on the board. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's my 00:08:10.033 --> 00:08:15.156 - general feeling. And I think they need a regular bus rider on the board and I'm a regular bus rider. 00:08:15.156 --> 00:08:20.278 - So I'm well acquainted with the flaws in the current system and some of the issues that are, because 00:08:20.278 --> 00:08:25.400 - I face them when I ride the bus every day. Sometimes it takes an hour for me to get across town when 00:08:25.400 --> 00:08:30.573 - it would have taken 10 minutes on a bike or a car. And that I think is pushing people back behind the 00:08:30.573 --> 00:08:34.782 - wheels of cars. And that's because, I mean, it's a whole bunch of different things 00:08:34.978 --> 00:08:40.576 - that are causing that. But the route optimization, I think, is one of them. There's no cross town routes. 00:08:40.576 --> 00:08:46.384 - Just, I took the bus to get here today. That was not a gimmick. I do that regularly. And I took a screenshot. 00:08:46.384 --> 00:08:51.771 - Every single bus going down the whole thing was 10 to 15 minutes late, running 10 to 15 minutes late. 00:08:51.771 --> 00:08:57.315 - They were constantly running late. We only have, I think, 72% on time arrival. That's not great. I think 00:08:57.315 --> 00:09:02.702 - we could aim higher. And it's been kind of stagnating at that level for years. Other agencies aim for 00:09:02.702 --> 00:09:04.286 - 80 to 90%, I think we should. 00:09:04.482 --> 00:09:11.608 - We aimed for that, I think, in the past couple of years. They had a report, but it's never really moved 00:09:11.608 --> 00:09:18.597 - up, and it's not clear why. And a bus that is always late is not a bus you can plan your life around. 00:09:18.597 --> 00:09:25.517 - So I am well acquainted with the actual day-to-day conditions of riding the bus, and I think I could 00:09:25.517 --> 00:09:27.230 - bring that to the board. 00:09:35.874 --> 00:09:46.327 - I'm just getting through it. You're fine. No worries. I keep rambling if you want me to. And now the 00:09:46.327 --> 00:09:56.885 - pace is incredible. Sorry, I was very fast. That's okay. I'm just reading. How can I rephrase that to 00:09:56.885 --> 00:10:03.198 - this situation? So I think I'm going to skip to number nine. 00:10:03.906 --> 00:10:11.032 - Okay, in terms of the possibilities for VT in terms of positive public and private partnerships and 00:10:11.032 --> 00:10:18.658 - what ideas do you have to create impactful partnerships or initiatives to address some of those challenges 00:10:18.658 --> 00:10:23.646 - that you just were talking about public trends. Yeah, public private. 00:10:23.778 --> 00:10:29.448 - solutions or partnerships. And I mean, one of the things that I know that we've talked about on council 00:10:29.448 --> 00:10:34.846 - a couple of times is that there are several different bus services in the town of different types. 00:10:35.074 --> 00:10:41.917 - in terms of IU, in terms of BT, in terms of private apartment complexes. There's lots of different pieces 00:10:41.917 --> 00:10:48.632 - of that. And of course, you mentioned Uber and Lyft as a part of the late night solution. So it's ideas 00:10:48.632 --> 00:10:55.475 - of how to create or further impactful partnerships. And I'm not at startup, I'm not opposed to all public 00:10:55.475 --> 00:11:02.061 - private partnerships, but I would lean more on the public side. I think we need to be bolder with the 00:11:02.061 --> 00:11:04.062 - agency and stop seeding ground 00:11:04.418 --> 00:11:09.506 - just private providers. I'm taking mainly Uber and Lyft when I'm talking about this. I think during 00:11:09.506 --> 00:11:14.646 - the pandemic, they stopped doing or cut back late night service substantially and sort of ceded that 00:11:14.646 --> 00:11:19.785 - ground, I think, to Uber and Lyft. And not only that, sort of subsidizing Uber and Lyft rides when I 00:11:19.785 --> 00:11:24.924 - think we should have been, I understand during the pandemic things went, everything was topsy turvy. 00:11:24.924 --> 00:11:27.774 - We need to move back in the direction we were going in. 00:11:27.874 --> 00:11:32.780 - And in fact, many of those plans that I talked about from 2009, 2018, 2017, 2012 called for expanding 00:11:32.780 --> 00:11:37.591 - late night service. And that was back when they already had the late night service at the time. And 00:11:37.591 --> 00:11:42.545 - instead we've gone the opposite direction. And not only that, our funding private competitors. I don't 00:11:42.545 --> 00:11:47.596 - think we should be doing that. As far as other like private, like apartment complex buses, I don't think 00:11:47.596 --> 00:11:52.839 - there's anything wrong with having private apartment complexes having their own shuttle service or whatever. 00:11:52.839 --> 00:11:55.966 - I don't think the transit agency has any role there necessarily. 00:11:56.674 --> 00:12:04.229 - With IU bus service, long-term, I think it would be great if we just had one transit agency in town. 00:12:04.229 --> 00:12:11.933 - But I'm not opposed to IU having their own bus service. I think it would be like decades in the future 00:12:11.933 --> 00:12:19.712 - we would do something not in the immediate term. So thanks for your question. I think it's been enough. 00:12:19.712 --> 00:12:24.350 - Okay. So following up on all of this, I mean, what is the one 00:12:24.738 --> 00:12:32.239 - uh, thing that you think is the largest issue with, um, with transit and, um, what role will you play 00:12:32.239 --> 00:12:39.667 - being on, um, on this commission, um, uh, to address it? I mean, I think they're all tied up. Um, we 00:12:39.667 --> 00:12:47.242 - have rapidly dropping ridership numbers. Why is that? I think it's cause we don't have, our routes are 00:12:47.242 --> 00:12:50.846 - in our, uh, circuitous meandering, um, and slow. 00:12:51.554 --> 00:12:57.661 - And we don't have cross town service and we don't have high frequency service and all of those things 00:12:57.661 --> 00:13:03.768 - are one thing. That is why ridership is dropping all of those things right there. And I think we need 00:13:03.768 --> 00:13:09.815 - to address all of those things. And those are not easy problems to address, but I am high enthusiasm 00:13:09.815 --> 00:13:15.742 - and high energy and focus like a laser on things. And my job on the board I think would be to push 00:13:16.034 --> 00:13:21.771 - the agency respectfully, constantly, but persistently in the direction of higher frequency, crosstown 00:13:21.771 --> 00:13:27.564 - service, route optimization, all of those things that I mentioned on increasing reliability. Which is, 00:13:27.564 --> 00:13:33.244 - I witnessed this firsthand in DC where I lived until relatively recently. I lived in Bloomington for 00:13:33.244 --> 00:13:38.925 - several years before that, was in DC 10 years, moved back. Bloomington's the only place that I loved 00:13:38.925 --> 00:13:44.830 - living. And DC, like all major cities transit agencies during the pandemic had huge losses in ridership. 00:13:45.378 --> 00:13:50.792 - They brought in a new director, Randy Clark, right after the pandemic or right around the time of the 00:13:50.792 --> 00:13:56.206 - pandemic, who turned the agency around on a dime. And it had the record fastest increase in ridership 00:13:56.206 --> 00:14:01.143 - of any major transit agency in the country. And they are back to where they were beforehand. 00:14:01.143 --> 00:14:06.610 - And it is, they did it through focusing like a laser on reliability, route optimization, and frequency 00:14:06.610 --> 00:14:12.077 - increases. I would like to see us do something similar here because I worry if we don't do that, we're 00:14:12.077 --> 00:14:15.262 - in a death spiral sort of situation. We're approaching one. 00:14:16.130 --> 00:14:21.683 - DC was, I mean, we can't do everything that DC does in a much larger city, but they redesigned their 00:14:21.683 --> 00:14:27.181 - entire bus network. For the first time in 50 years, every single bus route was redesigned, renamed, 00:14:27.181 --> 00:14:32.898 - rerouted, everything. And they've seen a giant increase in ridership since then. I'm not saying we need 00:14:32.898 --> 00:14:38.726 - to go to that extreme here, but I'd like to kind of copy a little bit of what they did in DC, the basics. 00:14:38.726 --> 00:14:41.310 - Yeah. And then on that note also, just pulling 00:14:41.410 --> 00:14:48.299 - Pulling from, again, from a thread that you mentioned early on, like, you know, Bloomington Transit, 00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:55.393 - as you mentioned, serves very different transportation needs, right, including students, workers, older 00:14:55.393 --> 00:15:02.419 - adults, people with disabilities, et cetera, people without cars, occasional riders. And so how should 00:15:02.419 --> 00:15:09.854 - the board think about balancing those different needs, like when we're making service and funding decisions? 00:15:10.274 --> 00:15:15.210 - Well, part of that's route design. You've got to design routes that are meeting all of those different, 00:15:15.210 --> 00:15:19.955 - like you've got to hit work centers and populate where people live. And I'm sorry to keep hammering 00:15:19.955 --> 00:15:24.796 - the same point, but I really do think it is that you've got to increase, if you want to get anyone to 00:15:24.796 --> 00:15:29.684 - ride the bus more, you have to have it frequent. That's the main, the underlying thing, underlying all 00:15:29.684 --> 00:15:34.573 - of the issues in the transit area. We don't have frequent enough service or buses that get you across. 00:15:34.573 --> 00:15:38.654 - You have to transfer downtown for almost every single route. That is going to affect, 00:15:38.882 --> 00:15:44.958 - seniors that's gonna affect students, that's gonna affect workers, that's gonna affect college professors, 00:15:44.958 --> 00:15:50.920 - that affects everybody. You have to have frequent, high-frequency service across the town. And I'm sorry 00:15:50.920 --> 00:15:56.769 - to keep harrying the same point, but I really do think that is the underlying issue to everything, the 00:15:56.769 --> 00:16:02.505 - problems that we're facing. Excellent, thank you. Yeah. And so how, to follow up on that, how do you 00:16:02.505 --> 00:16:06.366 - feel like as a board member, you can really institute how to change 00:16:07.106 --> 00:16:13.516 - Well, I mean, you're 1 out of 5 people, so you can't control everything, but the role is to constantly 00:16:13.516 --> 00:16:19.801 - be a constant voice for what I think needs to get us there, which is we need to redesign our routes. 00:16:19.801 --> 00:16:26.086 - We need to put funding into getting more bus drivers and getting more buses on the onlines that have 00:16:26.086 --> 00:16:29.758 - the highest ridership. And you also have to do things like 00:16:30.530 --> 00:16:35.480 - for bus stop consolidation, which is another way to increase frequency without having to increase the 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:40.575 - budget. So that means getting rid of bus stops that are right next to each other, that are really close. 00:16:40.575 --> 00:16:45.573 - And as you get downtown, many of the bus stops are right there, very close. That's another way you can 00:16:45.573 --> 00:16:50.523 - do it without. I understand budget is a tight concern with any agency in public life in Indiana right 00:16:50.523 --> 00:16:55.570 - now. But there's ways I think you can do it without increasing the budget. So my role would be to push, 00:16:55.570 --> 00:16:59.646 - just constantly be a voice for the sort of things that I think we need to do. Yeah. 00:17:06.338 --> 00:17:16.343 - I have just one last question, if it's okay, Kate and Hopi. So this is the last year of the arrangement 00:17:16.343 --> 00:17:26.059 - through the ED Lit. I think that, I'm forgetting the number off the top of my head, but I think it's 00:17:26.059 --> 00:17:35.390 - $3.7 million that goes from ED Lit transferred to Bloomington Transit. And so I'm interested in, 00:17:36.034 --> 00:17:42.855 - sort of your views on sort of what happens next. So I think there's two interesting things happening, 00:17:42.855 --> 00:17:49.944 - right? We have sort of this actually three really interesting things. You know, we have this this hopeful 00:17:49.944 --> 00:17:56.765 - large investment in some new facilities. We have now a change in management company. And we have this 00:17:56.765 --> 00:18:03.720 - change, potential change in what happens with the ED let moving forward. And of course, I mean, council 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.726 - could could address that. But 00:18:06.370 --> 00:18:13.995 - in assuming that all of those things go in the direction that they seem to be heading, does that change 00:18:13.995 --> 00:18:21.547 - the role of the board of directors here? Does it change views on priorities? Does it change to you our 00:18:21.547 --> 00:18:29.098 - policy design? Does it change at all? How do you approach as a director this new landscape in the year 00:18:29.098 --> 00:18:35.550 - ahead? Where do we find funding in a tight landscape is essentially what you're asking. 00:18:36.194 --> 00:18:42.115 - I mean, I think you do it through things like I just was talking about. You find creative ways to reduce 00:18:42.115 --> 00:18:47.923 - costs while simultaneously being able to increase frequency, which I think I think one of the examples 00:18:47.923 --> 00:18:53.675 - I gave was bus stop consolidation. You consolidate bus stops that can speed things up without raising 00:18:53.675 --> 00:18:59.370 - costs. I think the costs associated with the new facility are ballooning a little bit more so than I 00:18:59.370 --> 00:19:02.302 - am comfortable with, and I'm not entirely sure why. 00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:07.866 - be a voice for trying to tighten that up a little bit, because I think I'd rather that money go directly 00:19:07.866 --> 00:19:12.895 - into increasing frequency rather than going into a large facility. Maybe it's needed, I have no idea, 00:19:12.895 --> 00:19:18.120 - but I'm worried about how much money we're spending on things like that. I also think there's potentially 00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:23.050 - untapped sources of funding locally. I don't see my role right now to be able to give you an answer 00:19:23.050 --> 00:19:28.226 - of every single untapped source of funding that's available. I could look into that if I were appointed, 00:19:28.226 --> 00:19:32.318 - and I have the background to be able to do that. But one area that I think is good 00:19:32.482 --> 00:19:37.994 - I think we should raise parking rates. That's something that would be on city council to do. And some 00:19:37.994 --> 00:19:43.506 - of that money, if not all of it, should go into public transit, I think. And that's another source of 00:19:43.506 --> 00:19:49.234 - funding that we can find outside of the traditional sources. And I think there's potentially other places 00:19:49.234 --> 00:19:54.854 - we can look for funding like that that haven't been tapped yet to try to help raise funds in that tight 00:19:54.854 --> 00:19:59.934 - budget. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Is there anything else you would like us to know? 00:20:01.442 --> 00:20:07.421 - I don't think so. I think my general philosophy, I think it's pretty clear. I laid it out in that letter 00:20:07.421 --> 00:20:13.229 - I sent you to just my background is in data and driving into numbers and details and mapping. I think 00:20:13.229 --> 00:20:19.094 - I bring a unique perspective to the board that not many other people can bring that I can actually dig 00:20:19.094 --> 00:20:25.017 - down into the data itself and check the numbers and map stuff myself. Not that that's entirely the role 00:20:25.017 --> 00:20:30.654 - of the board, but that's a unique perspective that not many other board members I think can bring. 00:20:30.786 --> 00:20:45.266 - So that's one thing I think that makes me a good candidate. So. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. 00:20:45.266 --> 00:20:58.910 - Do you have anything else? All good. Okay. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. 00:21:00.034 --> 00:21:07.032 - you know I'm part of the job well it's part of the job and I I sometimes rather enjoy it because members 00:21:07.032 --> 00:21:13.763 - of the public just have to sit there while we talk at that yeah I think it's only fair yeah yeah all 00:21:13.763 --> 00:21:20.761 - right well leave you guys to it thank you very much thank you so much what do you like to stay put right 00:21:20.761 --> 00:21:27.625 - here and that's excellent button over there oh you can see better right yep great well I need a minute 00:21:27.625 --> 00:21:29.758 - same here I uh I'm gonna get my 00:21:31.458 --> 00:21:50.607 - Where is my question? Good for me to get out and move. Is there an S on the end of your name, McDaniel? 00:21:50.607 --> 00:21:59.998 - McDaniel. I believe on the screen there's a Nancy. 00:22:00.322 --> 00:22:14.408 - Suspect that's Nancy. Yes, our board. Over over my other interested. It's not usually. Are you okay? 00:22:14.408 --> 00:22:22.078 - Are you all okay? I start. Yeah, I'm quite done. Yeah. 00:22:28.610 --> 00:22:38.223 - My apologies for selling you 10. When we talked on the phone, we said 10.30, and so I didn't, I flubbed 00:22:38.223 --> 00:22:47.651 - up and sent you 10. So my apologies. Just need to get the questions out of here. That guy sure talked 00:22:47.651 --> 00:22:56.062 - fast. Some people can talk so fast. I do sometimes too, but not- Yeah, I was about to say. 00:22:58.178 --> 00:23:07.396 - I know that I talk fast at times. Jennifer, who exactly do you work for? Do you work for the council? 00:23:07.396 --> 00:23:16.615 - The city clerk. That's me. She has an alter ego that you can find in other places. I was watching her 00:23:16.615 --> 00:23:25.923 - alter ego this morning. That was actually one of the things that I did this morning. Yeah, we can talk 00:23:25.923 --> 00:23:27.550 - about that later. 00:23:27.682 --> 00:23:35.002 - Yeah, we sure can. Yeah, yeah, we can and should. And I'm just copying and pasting questions. I know, 00:23:35.002 --> 00:23:42.393 - I'm trying to, I'm doing that kind of similar, but you two are in very, also different positions. Yes, 00:23:42.393 --> 00:23:49.713 - you guys are very, so first I'm copying and pasting and then I need to go back and it would be ideal, 00:23:49.713 --> 00:23:55.454 - of course, if this sort of thing was done prior to our actual meeting, but, um, 00:24:14.210 --> 00:24:25.534 - Isaac, are you basically ready whenever we're ready? Yes, ma'am. It's one of those days where I have 00:24:25.534 --> 00:24:36.298 - so much to do, I just want to cry, you know? Sorry, it's OK, but it'll be good when it's seven. 00:24:36.298 --> 00:24:40.446 - We'll be fine. Most things are fine. 00:24:52.706 --> 00:24:54.782 - I mean, it's still 1026 technically. 00:25:26.274 --> 00:25:33.707 - Good enough. Yeah, I think so. Who wants to start with number one, which involves a slight reframing 00:25:33.707 --> 00:25:41.213 - of questions? I'll do it again. And I think it's still a good question. Oh, yeah. Thank you for being 00:25:41.213 --> 00:25:49.160 - here, Kent. First question, while you are part of this board, have you been a part of a board or commission 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:54.238 - or council that focused on the betterment and wellness of a specific 00:25:54.882 --> 00:26:03.036 - community, particularly a minority group. If so, what was your role and what impacted you? Many years 00:26:03.036 --> 00:26:11.111 - ago, before I was on the board of BT, I was on the traffic commission, but only for about two years. 00:26:11.111 --> 00:26:18.945 - And then in 1990, I was appointed to the board at Bloomington Transit. So I had nine terms there, 00:26:18.945 --> 00:26:23.742 - 36 years. And my whole career, professional career has been 00:26:23.938 --> 00:26:32.570 - public transportation. I studied it in college as a grad student. I drove a campus bus to work my way 00:26:32.570 --> 00:26:41.033 - through grad school. Then I went to work for IU and became the executive director of transportation 00:26:41.033 --> 00:26:49.919 - services, which oversaw a campus bus and motor pool and parking operations. And we also ran an extensive 00:26:49.919 --> 00:26:52.542 - training program that got more 00:26:52.706 --> 00:27:02.549 - people here to Bloomington from transit management companies all over the country than any other university. 00:27:02.549 --> 00:27:11.669 - And then my role on BT has varied, usually just a board member, but I've been the vice chair for the 00:27:11.669 --> 00:27:21.150 - last few years. And we don't specifically serve minority groups, but a lot of our riders are minorities. 00:27:21.506 --> 00:27:30.177 - particularly in the lower income groups. So that's pretty much the extent of my career in that specific 00:27:30.177 --> 00:27:39.016 - area. Thank you. Thank you. As a follow up to that, how have you seen public transportation change during 00:27:39.016 --> 00:27:47.354 - your career and tenure? So during your career, but also specifically over the last 36 years of your 00:27:47.354 --> 00:27:49.438 - position on the support. 00:27:49.762 --> 00:27:57.250 - Yeah, before I was on the board, we were the Institute for Transportation, which was part of the business 00:27:57.250 --> 00:28:04.668 - school. I became the administrative director there. We were very much involved with Bloomington Transit. 00:28:04.668 --> 00:28:11.379 - We did a study between Bloomington Transit and IU on behalf of the state to talk about merging 00:28:11.379 --> 00:28:18.302 - the organizations. But we've been talking about that for decades. It's never happened, obviously. 00:28:18.722 --> 00:28:28.752 - Although we've made a lot of progress, we operate out of a joint facility. IU actually owns the land, 00:28:28.752 --> 00:28:38.782 - and then we jointly own the building. Actually, no, BT owns the building. And that agreement runs for 00:28:38.782 --> 00:28:48.222 - another 11 years before it expires. There's, of course, an opportunity to extend it, but that's 00:28:48.450 --> 00:28:57.074 - I think created a sense of urgency for some people to explore this profile parkway purchase that was 00:28:57.074 --> 00:29:05.612 - recently done to build a new facility. So it's changed a lot. When I was first paying attention, DT 00:29:05.612 --> 00:29:14.663 - ran a few of these Mercedes Benz buses that had wooden seats, and it evolved over time to become a public 00:29:14.663 --> 00:29:17.054 - transportation corporation. 00:29:17.442 --> 00:29:24.861 - in 1982, and there are eight PTCs in the state. We're the last one that was created, so they don't do 00:29:24.861 --> 00:29:32.207 - it anymore. The advantage to that was it gives you some access to property tax authority, which gave 00:29:32.207 --> 00:29:40.062 - BT a stable funding base that allowed them to start purchasing better equipment and then use that equipment 00:29:40.062 --> 00:29:47.262 - to expand services and try and do a better job than they could with those old Mercedes Benz buses. 00:29:47.842 --> 00:29:57.422 - Another thing that happened over that period was we used the funding to build the joint facility that 00:29:57.422 --> 00:30:07.284 - we had. We also started a lobbying effort to go out and get more capital money. There were discretionary 00:30:07.284 --> 00:30:16.958 - grants available in those days. There are not as many anymore, but we were able to use that to replace 00:30:17.410 --> 00:30:24.503 - The fleet at Bloomington Transit and IU also got involved. They bought 27 new GM buses with money that 00:30:24.503 --> 00:30:31.735 - we got through lobbying efforts. And another thing I did was I was the executive director of the Indiana 00:30:31.735 --> 00:30:38.621 - Transportation Association, which was a lobbying group that went out to get money. So I was running 00:30:38.621 --> 00:30:46.059 - to Indianapolis all the time. I was registered lobbyist, went to Washington DC and spoke to our congressmen 00:30:46.059 --> 00:30:47.230 - and our senators 00:30:47.746 --> 00:30:57.207 - And the ITA was instrumental in doing a lot to bring money into Bloomington in particular and the rest 00:30:57.207 --> 00:31:06.392 - of the state as well. So I've seen it grow and evolve. And of course, now there's additional growth 00:31:06.392 --> 00:31:15.669 - in other areas like our association with Uber and Lyft and microtransit. I'm not really a big fan of 00:31:15.669 --> 00:31:17.598 - microtransit either. 00:31:18.274 --> 00:31:24.934 - Very efficient. If you want to be efficient, you've only got a limited amount of money. You want to 00:31:24.934 --> 00:31:31.594 - put the buses on the street where they can attract the greatest concentration of ridership. And you 00:31:31.594 --> 00:31:38.321 - want to put it out there when people are there. There are a lot of misconceptions about we shouldn't 00:31:38.321 --> 00:31:45.048 - drive such big buses because in the middle of the day you have smaller ridership. But you can't just 00:31:45.048 --> 00:31:46.846 - switch buses all day long. 00:31:47.298 --> 00:31:55.947 - And the biggest, the most important part, the most extensive part of your budget is labor. Labor and 00:31:55.947 --> 00:32:04.596 - fringe benefits, about 70% of all your expenses go into that. So I've seen a lot of change over time 00:32:04.596 --> 00:32:13.758 - in the amount of effort that goes into it and the money that goes into it and bigger and better equipment. 00:32:13.758 --> 00:32:16.670 - And we've done a lot to look into 00:32:16.834 --> 00:32:24.002 - of things like studying route efficiency and what Zach calls route optimization. We had an optimization 00:32:24.002 --> 00:32:31.376 - study and we're still working up. We make adjustments every year. Most of those adjustments are in August. 00:32:31.376 --> 00:32:38.268 - So there'll be some more coming in August. And the reason for that is about 70% of our ridership is 00:32:38.268 --> 00:32:45.022 - based on Indiana University and students. So when they're gone in the summer, ridership plummets. 00:32:45.538 --> 00:32:53.917 - And then when they come back, it starts to rise again. Another big change I've seen lately is the loss 00:32:53.917 --> 00:33:02.215 - of ridership. And a lot of that was due to the pandemic and changing work style. A lot of people each 00:33:02.215 --> 00:33:10.350 - work four days a week instead of five, or they don't go to the office and they don't need ridership 00:33:10.350 --> 00:33:14.174 - or they don't need as much service. Excuse me. 00:33:15.042 --> 00:33:22.771 - So that's kind of a roundabout way of answering that. Well, there's a lot of information in there. 00:33:22.771 --> 00:33:30.812 - Thank you. I hope it helps. It's so helpful. Thank you. I'm curious about, so you've been on the board 00:33:30.812 --> 00:33:38.853 - for so long, and thank you for your service. Why reapply? Why do you want to remain on the board? What 00:33:38.853 --> 00:33:40.414 - remains to be done? 00:33:43.426 --> 00:33:51.619 - I'm committed to public transportation. That's been my entire working career. And I've spent so much 00:33:51.619 --> 00:34:00.056 - time working with BT that I have a real fondness for it. And I feel responsible for it. So I don't want 00:34:00.056 --> 00:34:08.492 - to just walk away. I always worry about if I leave, then who's going to come in and take over? So there 00:34:08.492 --> 00:34:13.278 - are a few board members right now that I wish would leave. 00:34:13.986 --> 00:34:21.451 - I've decided maybe this is a good time to bring this up. I'm really upset with some things that have 00:34:21.451 --> 00:34:28.842 - happened at Bloomington Transit lately. We had a huge fight over the purchase of this property at a 00:34:28.842 --> 00:34:36.529 - profile parkway for the new facility. And one of the things I'm worried about there is I don't, in this 00:34:36.529 --> 00:34:43.550 - current federal environment, I don't see how we're ever going to get the money to finish that. 00:34:44.226 --> 00:34:51.153 - It is a good investment, nevertheless. If we can't get the money to build a facility, we still have 00:34:51.153 --> 00:34:58.427 - the land and we can sell it and do other things with it. So that's going to take a few years to resolve. 00:34:58.427 --> 00:35:05.562 - But I think I can see a lot of changes in the next four years. We're also transitioning to an electric 00:35:05.562 --> 00:35:12.628 - fleet. I'd like to see that continue, although those electric buses are a lot more expensive than the 00:35:12.628 --> 00:35:13.598 - diesel buses. 00:35:14.658 --> 00:35:23.919 - So I feel committed to it. I want to stay with it. I mentioned that we had a huge fight over the property 00:35:23.919 --> 00:35:32.918 - purchase, although eventually it passed by to nothing. And I made the motion to approve the resolution 00:35:32.918 --> 00:35:41.830 - to agree to the purchase. And then we fought over it for an hour before the rest of the board members 00:35:41.830 --> 00:35:42.878 - went along. 00:35:43.074 --> 00:35:51.503 - And then we had a couple of executive sessions to talk about the new management contract. And our chairman, 00:35:51.503 --> 00:35:58.761 - Jim McCleary, wouldn't let me have a copy of the proposals. So we went to the first meeting, 00:35:58.761 --> 00:36:06.565 - first discussion. And the first thing I said was, I can't talk about this because I hadn't seen the 00:36:06.565 --> 00:36:11.326 - proposals. So I pitched a bit and eventually got the copies. 00:36:11.906 --> 00:36:18.804 - Then we had another executive session. Then they came back and said that they were recommending we dump 00:36:18.804 --> 00:36:25.437 - our current management company, RITP DEV, and hire this new company. And I told them I'm absolutely 00:36:25.437 --> 00:36:32.136 - opposed to that because I think John Connell has done a great job. And so has RITP DEV. So we fought 00:36:32.136 --> 00:36:39.167 - over that for a while. Then Jim said, he announced that he expected, he said the committee was unanimous. 00:36:39.167 --> 00:36:41.886 - I expect the board to also be unanimous. 00:36:42.242 --> 00:36:50.500 - I said, that's not going to happen. So we fought over that for a while. They passed the resolution three 00:36:50.500 --> 00:36:58.365 - to two, excuse me, the resolution to sign a contract with this new company. And then we went to the 00:36:58.365 --> 00:37:06.387 - board meeting and voted on it. And they voted on the resolution to pass. We haven't signed a contract 00:37:06.387 --> 00:37:10.398 - yet. We have to do that at our next board meeting. 00:37:10.914 --> 00:37:19.121 - And I got up and left. I said, I've been here 36 years. This is the biggest mistake I've seen yet. And 00:37:19.121 --> 00:37:27.408 - so I told him, I am seriously considering withdrawing my application to reapply. The thing that changed 00:37:27.408 --> 00:37:35.376 - my mind after that, I went back and I was about one day away from coming back and to talk to you to 00:37:35.376 --> 00:37:39.838 - say, yeah, pull the plug. I don't want to be reapplied. 00:37:40.610 --> 00:37:51.334 - RITP-DEV signed a protest letter regarding the process of selecting a new management company. And in 00:37:51.334 --> 00:38:02.484 - my 36 years here, that's the first time we've ever had a protest. And I looked at it. I read the letter. 00:38:02.484 --> 00:38:09.598 - It's four pages long. And I agreed with so much of what they said. 00:38:09.794 --> 00:38:17.839 - I think you guys ought to see a copy of that if you're serious about this. Anyway, that encouraged me 00:38:17.839 --> 00:38:26.121 - to wait and see. The way it works is my term has expired. I was up to July 31st. But I get 90 days where 00:38:26.121 --> 00:38:34.166 - I still am on the board. And I thought, well, I'll write it out and see what happens. We have a board 00:38:34.166 --> 00:38:38.110 - meeting next Tuesday to approve the new contract. 00:38:38.754 --> 00:38:48.209 - I'm still feeling that, and I want to be totally honest with you on this, I can't work with Jim and 00:38:48.209 --> 00:38:57.663 - Doug Korn and Don Griffin if they insist on taking this new path and hiring a different company and 00:38:57.663 --> 00:39:08.158 - getting rid of our general manager. If they do, I'll quit. So you need to know that right ahead of time. Yeah. 00:39:08.354 --> 00:39:16.812 - Thank you so much. This is so helpful. Thank you. You're welcome. This is really helpful. I'm just looking 00:39:16.812 --> 00:39:25.112 - at questions we asked earlier. I think in that same vein, a lot of changes are coming or not. Isak asked 00:39:25.112 --> 00:39:33.333 - last time, with the ED lit funding leaving the $3.7 million, what happens next? Does it change the role 00:39:33.333 --> 00:39:37.918 - of the directors and the priorities? Well, the money that 00:39:38.050 --> 00:39:47.778 - We've been getting that 3.7 million, excuse me, the lit mine. Sorry. We've been basically stockpiling 00:39:47.778 --> 00:39:57.411 - that for the construction of the new facility. Because regardless of how expensive it is, it's going 00:39:57.411 --> 00:40:07.902 - to take a lot of local money. The money is also available to use for the green line, which runs across there. 00:40:08.098 --> 00:40:16.316 - east and west, we look at what they call bus rapid transit service there. And that's very expensive. 00:40:16.316 --> 00:40:24.615 - But there's a lot of things we can do with improving stops and signal prioritization, which is in our 00:40:24.615 --> 00:40:33.158 - next budget, to improve the flow of traffic through there for buses and to provide much better east-west 00:40:33.158 --> 00:40:37.470 - service that way. So we can use that money for that. 00:40:37.826 --> 00:40:47.170 - If we don't get the money from the facility, then we'll be able to do a lot of other good things with 00:40:47.170 --> 00:40:56.698 - it. This is one that I asked Zach before. I'm going to reframe it a little bit. It's the question about 00:40:56.698 --> 00:41:03.294 - impactable private and public partnerships that you referenced already. 00:41:03.490 --> 00:41:11.571 - Having looked into that for numerous years in terms of between IU and BT, I guess I'm interested in 00:41:11.571 --> 00:41:19.895 - your views on the future of that potential consolidation, whether or not it can happen, whether or not 00:41:19.895 --> 00:41:27.976 - it would be good for Bloomington as a community, for the organizations, and whether there are other 00:41:27.976 --> 00:41:31.774 - potential partnerships out there. Feel free to 00:41:31.938 --> 00:41:38.891 - to kind of play around just with that concept of partnerships. I think it would be good for the community. 00:41:38.891 --> 00:41:45.324 - I mentioned earlier, I was the executive director of the Indiana Transportation Association, well, 00:41:45.324 --> 00:41:52.342 - excuse me, of Indiana University. And in that role, I was often involved in discussions between Bloomington 00:41:52.342 --> 00:41:58.971 - Transit and IU as far as merging the systems. I used to recuse myself when they'd start to talk about 00:41:58.971 --> 00:42:01.310 - it at the board meeting, I'd get up 00:42:01.730 --> 00:42:08.647 - and leave. And then the chairman, Ray McConaughey, in those days said, no, don't stay. We want your 00:42:08.647 --> 00:42:16.049 - input. And what I observed back then was IU was very reluctant to give up control. That was very important 00:42:16.049 --> 00:42:23.313 - to them. They also didn't trust the city council to look after the needs of their students. They thought 00:42:23.313 --> 00:42:29.054 - they were better suited to do that. In those days, there was a big, big difference 00:42:29.602 --> 00:42:38.184 - But we get our state funding BT from the Public Mass Transportation Fund, EMTF. And that used to be 00:42:38.184 --> 00:42:47.023 - a performance-based system. And so I ran the numbers and figured out that if IU and BT merged and they 00:42:47.023 --> 00:42:55.777 - put all their service together and all their statistics as one, they could bring in $2 million a year 00:42:55.777 --> 00:42:59.038 - more than they were at the same time. 00:42:59.586 --> 00:43:07.491 - a zero sum game that we would have angered everybody in the state because we were taking money away 00:43:07.491 --> 00:43:15.633 - from them. At that point, the funds had grown to like $42 million a year. And BT has already taken 2.8 00:43:15.633 --> 00:43:24.091 - or something like that. If they had gotten the additional $2 million, we would have been killing everybody 00:43:24.091 --> 00:43:26.462 - except probably Indianapolis. 00:43:27.266 --> 00:43:34.405 - And people were upset about that, just the thought of it made them angry. So I think that IU was very 00:43:34.405 --> 00:43:41.404 - reluctant to go into that because they get a lot more money from the state for other things. And if 00:43:41.404 --> 00:43:48.403 - they made all the legislators mad, they thought they'd suffer. So that was a big difference. As far 00:43:48.403 --> 00:43:55.262 - as the public private, now there's a difference. Now I think IU is losing interest in campus bus. 00:43:55.810 --> 00:44:02.912 - From what I've seen, I've been retired for 10 years, so I don't have my finger on the pulse anymore. 00:44:02.912 --> 00:44:09.943 - But I think they're much more likely to consider that now than they were in those days. They've cut 00:44:09.943 --> 00:44:17.045 - back service too, so they've dealt with a smaller amount of service. So there's a chance that I know 00:44:17.045 --> 00:44:24.077 - John Collins has met with them many times, and I've been involved in some of those meetings. And he 00:44:24.077 --> 00:44:25.694 - continues to keep them 00:44:25.826 --> 00:44:37.221 - appraised of what we're doing. Not sure that this new facility, if it ever is open, is going to be attracted 00:44:37.221 --> 00:44:47.780 - to IU. So we'll just have to see what happens there. As far as public-private, I have not been a big 00:44:47.780 --> 00:44:54.366 - fan of Uber and Lyft services or microtransit, although it's a 00:44:54.626 --> 00:45:01.763 - something that Jim McClary, the chairman, really likes. He's pushing hard for that. It's inherently 00:45:01.763 --> 00:45:08.971 - less efficient because you usually get like one passenger and one driver. And so it's kind of like a 00:45:08.971 --> 00:45:16.251 - taxi service. So I'm going to be thrilled with that. As far as other public-private arrangements, I'm 00:45:16.251 --> 00:45:23.102 - not sure if you're familiar with this, but we have an extensive program of providing service to 00:45:23.490 --> 00:45:30.502 - apartment complexes. And when they have a lot of IU students there, they're willing to pay BT a lot 00:45:30.502 --> 00:45:37.514 - of money to provide more intense service for the apartment complex. In fact, I'm pretty sure at our 00:45:37.514 --> 00:45:44.596 - budget hearing that we just had a couple months ago, I think they said that we're bringing in over a 00:45:44.596 --> 00:45:50.206 - million dollars a year from apartments just to fund that additional service. So 00:45:50.722 --> 00:45:59.218 - I'm a big fan of the public private sector. I just think we need to do it in the most efficient way 00:45:59.218 --> 00:46:06.270 - we can. And I'm not so sure this Uber and Lyft stuff is that efficient. Thank you. 00:46:10.274 --> 00:46:16.898 - Could you talk a little bit about and again same same question and that we asked it you got the benefit 00:46:16.898 --> 00:46:23.267 - of hearing these questions, then we'll ask them again but the we were talking about how Bloomington 00:46:23.267 --> 00:46:24.286 - transit serves. 00:46:24.866 --> 00:46:30.438 - you know, a lot of different people with very different transportation needs. And so could you speak 00:46:30.438 --> 00:46:35.955 - a little bit about how you think the board should balance those different needs when making service 00:46:35.955 --> 00:46:41.859 - and funding decisions? And then similarly, I'd love your assessment on whether you think that we currently 00:46:41.859 --> 00:46:47.486 - are meeting those needs well. And I think that that's at least orthogonal, but it does intersect with 00:46:47.586 --> 00:46:54.605 - with this question about how we're doing microtransit as one example. So we would love to hear your 00:46:54.605 --> 00:47:01.904 - thoughts on how are we serving all of the different needs or how do we need to be serving the different 00:47:01.904 --> 00:47:08.923 - needs of a variety of different users? Well, I'm glad you brought that back up because I don't want 00:47:08.923 --> 00:47:16.222 - to leave you with the impression that I'm totally opposed to microtransit. It does help sort of a group 00:47:16.322 --> 00:47:27.587 - fixed route buses. So that helps. Part of what we do at BT is actually required by the federal government. 00:47:27.587 --> 00:47:38.219 - We're required to provide disabled service through our access, BT access. So we do that. And I think 00:47:38.219 --> 00:47:45.694 - we probably have done more than is required by the federal government. 00:47:46.242 --> 00:47:55.168 - So we really don't have a choice other than to do that. Our choice is how much of this door-to-door 00:47:55.168 --> 00:48:04.273 - microtransit service do we want to provide? And that is something that I feel like we should continue 00:48:04.273 --> 00:48:12.574 - to do. But I'm just concerned that we don't go overboard. I hope that answers your question. 00:48:12.770 --> 00:48:19.197 - And and and I'm also just thinking about, you know, what else would you have? What else would you have 00:48:19.197 --> 00:48:25.499 - us do like like, you know, so because because I it's it's well received and I get I get this tension 00:48:25.499 --> 00:48:31.989 - and this is actually what I'm trying to triangulate around that the way that we're doing micro transit, 00:48:31.989 --> 00:48:35.358 - for example, isn't isn't perfect. However, it's it's. 00:48:36.354 --> 00:48:44.016 - it's addressing a necessary need. So what do we do? How do we do this better? Because I also hear very 00:48:44.016 --> 00:48:51.677 - clearly the critique of we're not particularly happy with Uber. The ridership in microtransit has been 00:48:51.677 --> 00:48:59.562 - low. So I'm just trying to walk through that tension of what's the appropriate action for us to be taking 00:48:59.562 --> 00:49:05.662 - in this space. I'm not positive what the solution is to that. I can tell you that 00:49:06.242 --> 00:49:14.722 - What some systems have done, and in fact, John Connell, our manager, was at Lafayette for something 00:49:14.722 --> 00:49:23.710 - like 12 years or more. And when he was up there, they brought all the microtransit type service in-house. 00:49:23.710 --> 00:49:32.190 - So they had their own drivers instead of hiring Uber or Lyft. And that worked pretty well for them. 00:49:32.898 --> 00:49:40.954 - One of the reasons that I think BT has hesitated to do that is we're having fits just trying to hire 00:49:40.954 --> 00:49:49.090 - enough drivers to run our fixed route buses. Last I saw, we were still seven down from what we prefer 00:49:49.090 --> 00:49:57.225 - to have on a full-time basis. And that puts a lot of stress on the other drivers because they have to 00:49:57.225 --> 00:50:01.054 - work overtime. And having read, I hope we don't 00:50:01.314 --> 00:50:09.852 - miss runs, but that's a possibility if you can't bill them. And that's really bad for customer relations. 00:50:09.852 --> 00:50:18.310 - So that's a possibility, but until we can get higher people to go through, we had signing bonuses, we've 00:50:18.310 --> 00:50:26.365 - had job fairs. We've actually been in a lot worse shape in the past. I think we got it down to five 00:50:26.365 --> 00:50:31.198 - drivers a little while ago, and then we lost a couple more. 00:50:31.746 --> 00:50:39.037 - It's hard to retain drivers when they have to run these late night shifts. They just don't want to do 00:50:39.037 --> 00:50:46.256 - that. Not very many of them, some like it, but most of them don't. They prefer to have like an eight 00:50:46.256 --> 00:50:53.761 - to five kind of a job. And in the transit business, you don't get that very often. So the answer, Isaac, 00:50:53.761 --> 00:51:00.766 - is I don't really know the solution. Right, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a really helpful thing. 00:51:01.794 --> 00:51:09.622 - I want to ask a question I asked that too. Do you think the board is missing any representation 00:51:09.622 --> 00:51:18.185 - or perspective? If so, what is that? He made the point, you know, you need a writer on the board. That's 00:51:18.185 --> 00:51:26.339 - I've heard that many, many times. Most of our board members drive their cars to the board meetings. 00:51:26.339 --> 00:51:29.438 - I know Nancy, I believe she's online. 00:51:29.698 --> 00:51:39.112 - She rides the bus fairly often. I don't ride it very often myself. It's from where I live to BK and 00:51:39.112 --> 00:51:48.903 - back. It would be a long trip. So I get in my car and I drive. So that is, you know, to have a frequent 00:51:48.903 --> 00:51:59.070 - rider on the board would be an asset. Another thing that I've often heard as they complain about boards is, 00:52:00.258 --> 00:52:10.882 - The fact that we don't have a disabled person on the board, although I might be able to fix that. I've 00:52:10.882 --> 00:52:21.404 - got two bad knees and I have a cane and a walker in the car. I parked out in the lot here. So I don't 00:52:21.404 --> 00:52:27.902 - yet use access, but that's another possible aspect. It's good. 00:52:28.162 --> 00:52:35.779 - And then, you know, there's another possibility here that we don't really discuss very often, is BT 00:52:35.779 --> 00:52:43.776 - has five board members. According to state law, we could have seven, but we'd have to go back and change 00:52:43.776 --> 00:52:51.545 - the city ordinance. And I don't think that would be too difficult, you know, if the council wanted to 00:52:51.545 --> 00:52:55.582 - do that. And then you could add people to the board. 00:52:57.410 --> 00:53:03.574 - And then I wouldn't have to listen to those same three people all the time that I'm upset with. So would 00:53:03.574 --> 00:53:09.444 - you generally be supportive of having this? Like as somebody who served on this board for 36 years, 00:53:09.444 --> 00:53:15.431 - and one of the challenges, of course, with boards and commissions is getting participation and quorum 00:53:15.431 --> 00:53:21.595 - and attendance and all of those pieces of things, which is always a consideration from the council level 00:53:21.595 --> 00:53:27.230 - when we think about expanding board membership. So from your experience over the last 36 years, 00:53:27.330 --> 00:53:35.636 - Do you think that the board should potentially be expanded to 7 members? And if so, do you think that 00:53:35.636 --> 00:53:43.942 - there would be those challenges related to quorum attendance? All of those pieces. That's a very real 00:53:43.942 --> 00:53:51.678 - possibility. We've been pretty good. It's rare that we can't get a quorum. But we only need 3. 00:53:52.546 --> 00:53:59.104 - If we expanded the board, and this is another thing that came up when we were talking to IU, that we 00:53:59.104 --> 00:54:06.051 - could expand the board, put somebody from IU on the board to give them more say in how we provided service 00:54:06.051 --> 00:54:12.673 - to campus. But this never panned out. And I think, Hopi, I think that you've made an excellent point. 00:54:12.673 --> 00:54:19.166 - It could be a problem. You'd have to get the right people on the board, people that were dedicated. 00:54:23.106 --> 00:54:33.955 - Thank you. We do have an option for, you know, attending by zoom, but that's limited. You can't vote 00:54:33.955 --> 00:54:44.804 - on a budget if you're on zoom and you can't miss more than two meetings in a row. You suck. Anything 00:54:44.804 --> 00:54:51.678 - else you want to ask? No, no, very thorough answers. Thank you. 00:54:52.802 --> 00:54:59.738 - Um, I think I have, I think I have one more that we talked about before, um, with Zach, um, and you 00:54:59.738 --> 00:55:06.813 - may be like danced around it, but maybe you didn't directly state it. And so the question is, what is 00:55:06.813 --> 00:55:13.819 - like the largest problem that you see with transit in Bloomington and how do you work to change that 00:55:13.819 --> 00:55:20.894 - as a board member now? How do you want to continue? I mean, you talked about wanting to continue. So. 00:55:21.218 --> 00:55:29.447 - What do you want to do in the future to continue or start working toward that? Well, as far as long-term 00:55:29.447 --> 00:55:37.363 - problems, a long-term, consistent base of funding, we've got some now. But if we want to continue to 00:55:37.363 --> 00:55:45.279 - grow and expand, we're going to ultimately need more. Another thing is hiring and retaining drivers. 00:55:45.279 --> 00:55:49.982 - It's just really hard to get enough to keep things running. 00:55:50.626 --> 00:56:00.888 - And there was another thing on the tip of my tongue. Well, those are the two biggest ones. Okay. 00:56:00.888 --> 00:56:09.246 - And so, like you mentioned earlier in the interview about different how, like, 00:56:09.538 --> 00:56:16.489 - under the question how things have changed, and you mentioned how some funding things have changed. 00:56:16.489 --> 00:56:23.510 - And so in terms of that experience, you know, needing a consistent base of funding, are there places 00:56:23.510 --> 00:56:31.156 - that you think that can be looked toward in the future to create that consistent funding? That's a challenge, 00:56:31.156 --> 00:56:37.342 - and it's one we've been fighting for decades. Zach mentioned, you know, parking revenue. 00:56:37.602 --> 00:56:44.721 - That'd be great for public transit, but we'd make a lot of people very angry who are benefiting from 00:56:44.721 --> 00:56:51.981 - that money right now. I'm not sure that's the fight we'd want to pick. We've pretty much exhausted the 00:56:51.981 --> 00:56:59.170 - state sources of funding and the federal sources. So until Congress gets its act together and decides 00:56:59.170 --> 00:57:06.078 - that they want to support public transportation, or until we get a new general assembly that puts 00:57:07.554 --> 00:57:14.601 - public transportation as a priority. Although I don't believe I mentioned this. I was talking about 00:57:14.601 --> 00:57:21.647 - the PMTF and how we could have gotten more from it when it was a performance-based formula. It's no 00:57:21.647 --> 00:57:28.976 - longer based on performance. They cut that out years ago and they froze the fund. So now BT does pretty 00:57:28.976 --> 00:57:36.798 - well because we were doing very well when the PMTF grew to $42 million. I think it's now 44. So that's not it. 00:57:37.506 --> 00:57:47.667 - a possibility anymore. There are just limited resources out there. Unless we have a new source of funding 00:57:47.667 --> 00:57:57.253 - approved by the city or the county or the state, I don't think we can count on the feds. We need to 00:57:57.253 --> 00:58:01.854 - just make sure we're as efficient as we can be. 00:58:04.706 --> 00:58:12.978 - Okay, and then what about hiring drivers, which I know has been an issue for MCCSE as well? We're constantly 00:58:12.978 --> 00:58:20.566 - trying. We bring them in, we train them, we drug test them, and then sometimes after you go through 00:58:20.566 --> 00:58:28.155 - that whole process, then they drop out. And, you know, you finally start to make some progress like 00:58:28.155 --> 00:58:31.646 - we were for a while, and then all of a sudden 00:58:32.354 --> 00:58:39.893 - Somebody leaves. They get a better opportunity somewhere to get their public passenger chauffeur's license. 00:58:39.893 --> 00:58:47.084 - And then maybe it'll go to a truck company. We have that problem with mechanics, too. You get somebody 00:58:47.084 --> 00:58:54.064 - who's a, of course, it used to be diesel mechanics. Then they'd run off to the truck companies once 00:58:54.064 --> 00:59:00.766 - they got suitably trained. But now, with these new electric buses, we've got to train them all. 00:59:00.898 --> 00:59:08.709 - We get the manufacturers of the buses to help us with that. But there's a problem in that, too, that 00:59:08.709 --> 00:59:16.597 - the Trump administration has basically killed the electric discretionary bus program. They don't want 00:59:16.597 --> 00:59:24.486 - electric buses anymore. So the manufacturers are already starting to cut back on parts and equipment. 00:59:24.486 --> 00:59:30.750 - And it's going to get more expensive. It's going to get harder to buy new buses. 00:59:30.914 --> 00:59:40.978 - We may have to adjust our goals again. Instead of electric buses, maybe we'll have to go back to clean 00:59:40.978 --> 00:59:51.140 - diesel. Great. And on that depressing note, sorry. Sorry. Is there anything else you want to share with 00:59:51.140 --> 00:59:59.934 - us? No, I was wondering when I get that thing in about whether I want to continue to say, 01:00:00.354 --> 01:00:10.031 - But I did get that in. We have a board meeting next Tuesday, and that's when they'll vote on the contract. 01:00:10.031 --> 01:00:19.527 - There is a process going, but I don't understand the process because I've never been through it. I think 01:00:19.527 --> 01:00:27.486 - that part of the process includes getting the general manager, not the general manager, 01:00:28.002 --> 01:00:37.266 - the board chair to appoint a committee to review the protest. I'm pretty sure what Jim's gonna do is 01:00:37.266 --> 01:00:46.438 - appoint himself and the two disgruntled employees that were the problem on the first committee. And 01:00:46.438 --> 01:00:55.518 - if that's the case and the protest doesn't go anywhere, then I'll go. Yeah, that's understandable. 01:00:58.690 --> 01:01:05.603 - I'd just like to say there were two public comments written here by Nick Ira. And the first one was 01:01:05.603 --> 01:01:12.516 - about Zach said that they loved the idea of a bus rider giving perspective. And then the second one 01:01:12.516 --> 01:01:20.051 - was during this interview, they said this kind of generational knowledge is beyond valuable, it's priceless. 01:01:20.051 --> 01:01:27.102 - So I just wanted to make sure that we shared both of those comments as well. Thank you so much, Nick. 01:01:28.322 --> 01:01:35.367 - Thank you. Okay, and I think we can be adjourned, right? No. What? Well, I want to make sure that we 01:01:35.367 --> 01:01:42.552 - review our steps before we adjourn at the official meeting. But we can adjourn tomorrow. Yes, so thank 01:01:42.552 --> 01:01:49.737 - you so much. I think so. Thank you so much for being here. Well, thank you very welcome. Thank you for 01:01:49.737 --> 01:01:55.806 - the years of service that you have spent to BT, regardless of what happens after this. 01:01:56.098 --> 01:02:04.239 - think that what you've given to the community through your service has been invaluable. Yeah, yes, I 01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:12.623 - think that I've learned thanks for this interview too that were very interesting. Thank you. Of course, 01:02:12.623 --> 01:02:20.764 - nice to meet you. Thank you so much. Okay. I have to get going, so. Yeah. We have a meeting tomorrow 01:02:20.764 --> 01:02:25.278 - and there's another meeting this year. I love it. Okay. 01:02:25.378 --> 01:02:32.595 - I was part of that 1130 and I got canceled. That was in here. Okay. So I'll see you. I'll see you tomorrow. 01:02:32.595 --> 01:02:39.411 - I'll be in person and cause Kate, you're going to be remote. Okay. And that's at 10 30, but I'll send 01:02:39.411 --> 01:02:46.495 - a follow up reminder for everybody. Um, as well. And it's just one tomorrow. Is that right? Yep. Awesome. 01:02:46.495 --> 01:02:53.244 - All right. See you guys tomorrow. Um, and thank you. Now you have to address before you leave. Can I 01:02:53.244 --> 01:02:54.046 - have those?