WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.920 - >> I'd like to call this the Mayor Commission regular meeting for May 27th, 2025 to order. 00:00:04.920 --> 00:00:09.520 - [BLANK_AUDIO] 00:00:09.520 --> 00:00:14.200 - Order of business here is the approval of the minutes that I think we're all sent. 00:00:14.200 --> 00:00:19.520 - Can I get a motion to approve the minutes for March 25th and April 22nd, 2025? 00:00:19.520 --> 00:00:20.840 - >> I'll make that motion. 00:00:20.840 --> 00:00:21.560 - >> And I'll second. 00:00:21.560 --> 00:00:23.720 - >> All right, I have a motion and a second. 00:00:23.720 --> 00:00:27.200 - Is there any discussion about the minutes? 00:00:27.200 --> 00:00:27.960 - >> No. 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:29.920 - >> Hearing none, all in favor say aye. 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:30.800 - >> Aye. 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.400 - >> Any opposed? 00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:35.760 - >> That motion is successful. 00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:39.640 - >> We're rolling right along. 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:44.320 - >> Old business, the adoption of the rules and procedures. 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:46.640 - Can I get a motion to adopt the city of Bloomington Fire and 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:48.320 - Mayor Commission rules and procedures? 00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:50.880 - [BLANK_AUDIO] 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:52.240 - >> It's all moved. 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:53.120 - >> Second. 00:00:53.120 --> 00:00:55.880 - >> All right, I have a motion and a second. 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:59.880 - >> Is there any discussion about the years and 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:01.960 - procedures? 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:04.760 - >> Go through as I read through in detail. 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:05.960 - >> Sure. 00:01:05.960 --> 00:01:08.280 - >> Thank you for sending ahead of time. 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:11.160 - >> Well, there was enough there to read. 00:01:11.160 --> 00:01:16.120 - I really was glad I was able to get it to you all with enough days to spend with it. 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:25.800 - >> Some of this stuff, it's probably just me being trying to figure out what I need to know. 00:01:25.800 --> 00:01:31.080 - Here trying to figure out the lay of the land and you guys probably already know a lot of these 00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:33.960 - answers, but let's see. 00:01:33.960 --> 00:01:48.840 - Oh, in the first section under the qualifications section, I noticed that provision for those 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:55.000 - who are honorably discharged and served at least 20 years of military service would get 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:57.960 - could be 40 years and six months. 00:01:57.960 --> 00:02:01.400 - I just wondered how we came up with that extra six months. 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.720 - >> So it used to be our cutoff was 36 years of age. 00:02:05.720 --> 00:02:06.280 - >> Yeah. 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:10.680 - >> So how they come up with 40 years and six months, I guess I'm not sure, but there was 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:17.720 - a significant difference between our maximum hiring age and a military retirement. 00:02:17.720 --> 00:02:21.960 - Now that our maximum age has been moved to 40, it makes that six months a lot more 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:23.960 - insignificant than what it used to be. 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.520 - But it's always been 40 and a half years. 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:33.160 - >> What I was thinking was if you kind of do the math here, you take a young man or 00:02:33.160 --> 00:02:39.960 - woman who's graduated from high school, they would likely enlist at age 19. 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:48.040 - If they served a full 20 years, which would give them a full career in the military and 00:02:48.040 --> 00:02:54.760 - then eligibility for their pension, they would be 39 years of age. 00:02:54.760 --> 00:03:05.720 - And this adequately covers them, assuming that they'd have enough time. 00:03:05.720 --> 00:03:07.640 - Let me try to work my way through this. 00:03:07.640 --> 00:03:15.000 - So 39 years old, you'd have a year and a half. 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:19.480 - If you were retired right at 20 years. 00:03:19.480 --> 00:03:25.880 - And so does that include the amount of time? 00:03:25.880 --> 00:03:34.200 - Can you have to actually be sworn in at 40 and a half years or can that be when you apply? 00:03:34.200 --> 00:03:37.560 - >> No, you have to be hired on by that deadline. 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:43.080 - The date of hire has to be before they're 40 and a half years old. 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:47.240 - >> Okay, and that date wasn't set internally, that's straight from the state statute. 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:51.960 - >> That's the statute that the state of Indiana passed. 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:53.960 - >> Okay, so we can't do anything about that. 00:03:53.960 --> 00:04:00.200 - >> One of those few times where, you know, we've made age of. 00:04:00.200 --> 00:04:03.880 - >> Yeah, well, it makes sense. 00:04:03.880 --> 00:04:11.000 - >> It turns out at some point, you're just old enough that you shouldn't start a career 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:11.960 - in the fire department. 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:13.400 - >> Oh, sure, I get that. 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.280 - I'm just trying to think logistically. 00:04:16.280 --> 00:04:18.840 - >> Whether they've got time to get done with everything in the military. 00:04:18.840 --> 00:04:19.720 - >> Whether they do. 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:22.440 - And since it's state mandated, there's nothing we can do about that. 00:04:22.440 --> 00:04:29.320 - But the trick for us then is making sure that if we're recruiting somebody or if someone's come 00:04:29.320 --> 00:04:34.120 - to us at 18 years of service in the military and saying, you know, 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.840 - I'd like to really consider the fire service. 00:04:36.840 --> 00:04:40.360 - We need to be on them and say, okay, that's all good. 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:42.840 - We think you'd be a good candidate or whatever. 00:04:42.840 --> 00:04:47.320 - But we're going to have to be straight with them and say, you got to get this in. 00:04:47.320 --> 00:04:53.320 - You got to get in the process now because it's going to take from the time you leave, 00:04:53.320 --> 00:04:57.000 - you've only got a year and a half if you wait until full retirement. 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:01.400 - Because a lot of times these guys, if they retire at 20 years, 00:05:01.400 --> 00:05:08.680 - their actual retirement date is going to be, you know, two or three months later because of 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:10.440 - built up leave time and things like that. 00:05:10.440 --> 00:05:14.520 - So I don't know how we recruit from the military. 00:05:14.520 --> 00:05:18.920 - If we have any kind of things like that that we look at, it'd be a good thing if we did. 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:24.360 - To look for good candidates, I think. 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:28.760 - But we just need to make sure that they know we've got these time limits. 00:05:28.760 --> 00:05:32.760 - It is in the application that if you are, you will be this and it is understood. 00:05:32.760 --> 00:05:38.040 - It's like question one, you will be, it must be between these ages at the time of hire. 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:41.720 - And so that is we track the birth dates very closely. 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:44.120 - Want to make sure they are of age. 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:46.520 - Now we have the 21 that we must do. 00:05:46.520 --> 00:05:48.920 - They must be 21 by the age of hire. 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:53.480 - Even though perf allows the 18 year olds, merit board does not. 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:55.160 - So we have to check birthday. 00:05:55.160 --> 00:06:00.680 - So they must be 21 by the date of hire, not to be on the list, but date of hire. 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:05.880 - And then they must, they can be on the list until they get 40 and a half. 00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:08.440 - And then, yeah, I'm sorry, but yes. 00:06:08.440 --> 00:06:12.600 - But we do have several veterans on our list as it stands right now. 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.480 - Not with 20 years, but they are serving right now, 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:17.800 - but getting done with their contracts and whatever. 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:23.960 - But a lot of them have their job site has been governmentjobs.com. 00:06:23.960 --> 00:06:28.360 - So we've had, and we get a lot of questions. 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.080 - We did have one candidate withdrawal because he was on deployment 00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:34.040 - for the entire month of April out of country. 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:36.440 - So we get the decline this time. 00:06:36.440 --> 00:06:42.520 - So because we cannot accommodate a line exam for that. 00:06:42.520 --> 00:06:46.600 - Essentially, they'd likely need to be a top candidate to make the timeline. 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:50.520 - So if they apply within that year and a half and they do well 00:06:50.520 --> 00:06:54.120 - and they're in the X top, whatever candidates, 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:56.200 - they will probably make the timeline and they'll get hired. 00:06:56.200 --> 00:06:59.160 - If they were in the bottom of the candidate list, 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:00.920 - odds are against them getting called in time. 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:04.440 - Sure, absolutely, that makes sense. 00:07:04.440 --> 00:07:10.200 - And the good part is, you know, let's say you're a Navy medic or an Army medic, 00:07:10.200 --> 00:07:16.600 - you probably know that that military occupational specialty transfers, 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:25.160 - you're an EMT by state law, you can get certified pretty easy transferring that over. 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:28.520 - And that gives us, you know, that gives a candidate a one-up. 00:07:28.520 --> 00:07:30.440 - And experience. 00:07:30.440 --> 00:07:32.040 - Absolutely, great. 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:33.640 - Okay, there was that one. 00:07:33.640 --> 00:07:37.080 - And let's go to section D. 00:07:37.080 --> 00:07:44.280 - On the aptitude test, I noticed it said 70% or greater 00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:50.680 - and 35% of the overall hiring process score. 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:54.680 - You know, that's a great criteria. 00:07:54.680 --> 00:08:01.320 - My question is, the written exam, do we, it's from a third-party vendor, 00:08:01.320 --> 00:08:06.040 - but there could be differences if it's a third-party, 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.040 - is the test different from different vendors? 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:09.340 - Yes. 00:08:09.340 --> 00:08:13.400 - Okay, so I guess the thing to be mindful there would be, 00:08:13.400 --> 00:08:19.160 - if the test is different, should the standards be different? 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:21.240 - Or is this one of those statements too? 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:27.160 - Generally, I'll say that 70% is passing as far as all state certifications exams 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:35.240 - and they set the passing score at 70% and so that's a general practice, is 70%. 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:40.520 - So we have gone with the firefighter aptitude test. 00:08:40.520 --> 00:08:45.640 - Essentially, they have, the criteria they've set for passing 00:08:45.640 --> 00:08:49.720 - comes with an element of liability protection because they've vetted it 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:55.320 - and gone through their own HR-related nature to set up the questions. 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:59.880 - We can deviate from it, but then we lose that liability protection that comes with it. 00:08:59.880 --> 00:09:02.040 - So they've done their due diligence. 00:09:02.040 --> 00:09:05.640 - That's why we picked a specific third party to do it, is they've done their due diligence. 00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:10.120 - That becomes the thing I think should be some clarification, 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:16.200 - is the candidates who would like to be considered for hire with this department 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:23.080 - have only one third party vendor to go to because we are contracted with them, correct? 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:26.840 - So they're all using the same third party vendor. 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:29.320 - It's not like they can go out and choose one. 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:32.840 - Yeah, they choose our test. 00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:39.320 - There is an optional study guide for which we do not provide, 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:43.160 - but the link and the information is provided to those who ask 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:50.120 - or reach out to someone, hey, is there one, which we encourage people to reach out to HR, 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:54.840 - to the hiring managers and whatnot, you know, for that. 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.760 - So then we have, if you pick a vendor, you can, 00:09:58.760 --> 00:10:05.320 - you can kind of pick a vendor somewhat related to the rigor of the test. 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:06.380 - Yes. 00:10:06.380 --> 00:10:09.480 - Yeah, okay, great. 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.720 - This one does corrections, it does police, it does a variety of 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:21.800 - public safety, promotional and general placement, aptitude, hiring exams. 00:10:21.800 --> 00:10:27.000 - And then my next question there is in section E, under the agility test, 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:38.840 - the CPAT has a pass/fail, and that's, let's see, is that administered by the third party as well? 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:39.900 - Yes. 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:45.880 - So then the same kind of thing is true there. 00:10:45.880 --> 00:10:52.760 - Is there uniform standards for physical fitness or does it differ by vendors? 00:10:52.760 --> 00:10:57.000 - It is a national recognized exam, the candidate physical aptitude test, 00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:06.520 - and they have to be vetted by the entity, whether, you know, it's the IEFF, the union, 00:11:07.560 --> 00:11:12.360 - they have to be vetted and they have to, it takes, it's a few years processed to 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:19.800 - get the certification that that allows them to be in a certified official state site for that. 00:11:19.800 --> 00:11:27.560 - So Indiana has several, but they are all throughout the U.S., so it is a very common. 00:11:27.560 --> 00:11:31.640 - So is it kind of, is there a state list that we pick from or do we pick any vendor? 00:11:32.280 --> 00:11:37.560 - They can just, they just need the card. They could, we have had people from Florida, Illinois, 00:11:37.560 --> 00:11:45.640 - from the Illinois State Fire Academy, Colorado, Texas. It's a nationally recognized standard. 00:11:45.640 --> 00:11:49.560 - Yes, the testing should be the same. The site location may just be different. 00:11:49.560 --> 00:11:52.760 - Yeah. So does that make sense? I'm sorry I did not. 00:11:52.760 --> 00:11:56.040 - Standards are all the same nationally. Yes. 00:11:56.040 --> 00:12:03.320 - That's great because in, well, I've just seen other departments years ago that 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:08.120 - made up their own. And sometimes that doesn't work so well. 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:13.320 - Right. Okay. In section G, 00:12:23.400 --> 00:12:36.280 - yeah. Let's see, my note says any department or just Bloomington. 00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:47.640 - It's any department by statute. Any department? 00:12:47.640 --> 00:12:51.800 - Yeah, whether you are a firefighter, whether your mother or father was a firefighter or police 00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:57.720 - officer. That was exactly my question. Was that limited to Bloomington or was it, 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:07.320 - should we amend that a bit to say any department? Because it's firefighter or police officer, 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:14.360 - I guess that means any department, but that would be my question, whether it's just Bloomington or 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:23.560 - whether it's just Monroe County or. So you think a clarification would, yeah, of any, I mean, 00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:28.680 - applicants whose mother or father was a firefighter or police officer 00:13:28.680 --> 00:13:38.840 - of any department in the United States? I mean, how do we? Yeah, I mean. What does the state say? 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:44.360 - I say as defined in IC510102, what does that state there? Because it could. I don't know. I have to 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:53.160 - look at the statute. No, that's in the line of duty as defined. Oh, yeah. The line of duty, 00:13:53.160 --> 00:13:59.080 - not necessarily. Yeah, that 510102 is talking about line of duty, not firefighter or police officer. 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:03.480 - There's a definition for whether you died in the line of duty. 00:14:07.800 --> 00:14:12.360 - Yeah, so I guess we could leave it that way, just the way it is, but 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:19.400 - applicants whose mother or father were firefighter or police officer 00:14:19.400 --> 00:14:25.800 - of any department who died in the line, maybe that kind of thing. 00:14:31.800 --> 00:14:39.960 - Does everybody think about that? I'm just rattling this stuff off, guys. Chime in if you think I'm 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:47.960 - out to lunch somewhere. I just, when I read, because I just read this completely 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:54.280 - as a lay person, having never read it before, and then I started thinking, 00:14:54.280 --> 00:15:01.560 - I don't know what that means, you know, whether I could be from the Wadooga Police Department or 00:15:01.560 --> 00:15:02.200 - whether 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:07.240 - I have to be from the Los Angeles Fire Department, you know, or the Bloomington Fire Department, 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:15.080 - for that matter. Okay, well if that's the intent of any department, sounds good to me. Well, 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:22.280 - should I add that language? Because the motion will then be 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:27.240 - um, as amended? As amended, right? 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:34.840 - And that would allow us to still adopt it? Yeah, we'll adopt it tonight and I'll just make those 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:43.000 - changes. We will have, we will have adopted this set as amended tonight, right? So, so anything, 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:49.120 - any amendments, so we have to, I'm going to add it of any department to G, so your motion is going 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:49.400 - to 00:15:49.400 --> 00:15:55.480 - be to adopt these rules as amended. Okay, the reason I waited to bring all this up, I just, 00:15:55.480 --> 00:16:00.360 - I felt by Robert's rules, we needed to get it on the floor first before we started talking about it. 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:05.230 - Right, that's how I'm doing it. Good. It's on the floor right now. Great. And so we're discussing 00:16:05.230 --> 00:16:05.400 - and 00:16:05.400 --> 00:16:22.920 - now, so technically the motion will have to be restated and, right? So can I get a motion to 00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:28.440 - adopt these rules as amended? So moved, seconded. Any more discussion? Hearing none, right? That'll 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.790 - be the... Do we want to wait to see if there are any other? We'll go through all the amendments 00:16:31.790 --> 00:16:32.040 - first, 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.880 - okay, if there are any others. Let's see. 00:16:35.880 --> 00:16:50.280 - I was looking at H and I really, I think that H is good because it gives us maximum flexibility. 00:16:50.280 --> 00:17:01.320 - There's no, we're not specifying what kind of things we're looking for in a social media account. 00:17:02.280 --> 00:17:09.160 - We're not specifying the depth of criminal history. We can't begin to start. So we've got plenty of 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:16.680 - flexibility. Yeah. Good. Okay then. And social media changes so much. Absolutely. To try and 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:24.520 - explain it and express it in any kind of terms. Yeah. Social media accounts captures, you know, 00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:32.040 - pretty much anything that we might generically consider as social media. Yeah, and that's a 00:17:32.040 --> 00:17:38.040 - great thing because that can change over time. You know, what could be a standard that we would 00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:48.600 - accept today? We might not in a year. Yeah. And, but of course we have to be careful of that too. 00:17:51.400 --> 00:18:03.000 - So it's good. And then my next thing was in section two, subsection A3. 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:10.280 - Score received by the member on the assessment center. I, yeah. What, yeah, what is the assessment 00:18:10.280 --> 00:18:15.880 - center? I don't know what the assessment center is. So that would vary depending on the promotion 00:18:16.760 --> 00:18:21.800 - they saw after, but it's essentially a course that evaluates your skill set 00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:27.880 - as it correlates to that position. So a driver, the assessment center would have to do with pump 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:36.120 - operations, maps, driving. An officer would be command situations, personnel issues, admin things. 00:18:36.120 --> 00:18:41.240 - So it's basically running them through scenarios and seeing how they perform competitively with 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:47.240 - the point system and evaluators. So really the assessment center is specific to the position. 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:48.360 - Correct. Okay. 00:18:48.360 --> 00:18:57.960 - Okay, that helps me understand. That's good. Okay, then 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:05.160 - maybe I missed it, but I don't know if I got exhibit A. 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:12.200 - Was it attached someplace? It mentions exhibit A and section B there. Oh, 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:16.840 - we did not provide you with exhibit A, the promotional guide. 00:19:16.840 --> 00:19:26.840 - No, that's fine. I just thought, gee, did you delete that email or? 00:19:26.840 --> 00:19:31.640 - You didn't miss anything. Okay, good. I think I did. 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:37.240 - So it's the promo guide. Okay. That's meant to be a live document. 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:44.520 - I think the fear was if we were to permanently attach it to this, then as it modifies to, 00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:47.240 - you know, be custom for the department as best fit, 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:52.280 - we would like you to have access to the live document so you can see the current version of 00:19:52.280 --> 00:20:00.280 - it and not a previous one. So we talk about that promotional guide and that guide is modified 00:20:00.280 --> 00:20:07.640 - time to time and then we attach to the most current version. Okay. So the assessment, 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:18.440 - the promotional guide, is that a tool that helps department members understand how to get promoted? 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:23.880 - Exactly. It shows what's required to retrack each appointment, time and service, what the... 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:37.320 - State certifications are that are required. Great. Okay. Next is in E there, Chris. 00:20:37.320 --> 00:20:43.720 - Yeah. That looks like the sentence didn't get completed after "however" in my version. 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:48.440 - However, only those member. Yeah. 00:20:50.840 --> 00:20:56.200 - Typo. Boy, I wish you'd have pointed that out to me. I'm sorry. As I looked through all this, 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.600 - I thought, oh god, I don't want to put all this in an email. 00:20:58.600 --> 00:21:05.240 - I thought maybe there may have been a colon there, but then I thought, oh no, 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:09.240 - there's probably a little more to that. All right. Hold on a second. Let me see 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:18.360 - if a previous version had the whole thing there. Could have. 00:21:18.360 --> 00:21:27.640 - Let's see what the first version said. Section 2 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:42.600 - E. Right? Which section I'm sorry? Yeah, 2 E. Uh-huh. 2 E. Yeah, the first paragraph. 00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:48.040 - Written competitive examination. For a written competitive examination may be held to fill the 00:21:48.040 --> 00:21:51.640 - current more expected vacancy in the ranks, the member eligible to take the examination. 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:58.280 - No, it's right before that, Chris. That's subsection 1, so it's right here. 00:21:58.280 --> 00:22:04.520 - Yeah, that preamble is not in the first version, so I added it. Any member who qualifies 00:22:04.520 --> 00:22:10.120 - in length of service and rank may take a written competitive examination administered by the 00:22:10.120 --> 00:22:18.200 - department. However, only those member. Max? G-Flip was looking right now. Yeah, I'm trying 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:20.840 - to look and see in our notes. What were we trying to get to there? 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:40.280 - Are you jogging your memory at all? No, I'm gonna have to. 00:22:40.280 --> 00:22:45.560 - Where are we looking on E? We are in the very, that preamble. There's a little preamble right 00:22:45.560 --> 00:22:53.240 - after competitive examination and before the number one. So it's E just before one, 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:59.640 - E where it says written competitive exam, and then... Because the very first one you sent out 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.800 - didn't have anything, and you're saying that's what you added. Yeah, we added something. I was 00:23:03.800 --> 00:23:06.680 - looking for an older version of my habit, but that one didn't have anything. 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:17.480 - Yeah, there's gotta be a reason there, because there was a however you wanted to put it. Yeah, 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:22.840 - and I must have gotten a phone call or moved away from it, came back after lunch or something. 00:23:22.840 --> 00:23:29.080 - Utilities called you. Right, yeah. So I never got back to finishing the thought. 00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:50.920 - I don't have a comment attached to that portion of it. The next comment is a little bit further 00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:51.160 - down. 00:23:51.160 --> 00:24:20.280 - Sorry about that. That's okay. I'm glad you caught it. I'm not sure what we were trying to say 00:24:20.280 --> 00:24:20.440 - there. 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:26.600 - Well, we can always... Something that you brought up, Max. I remember you had a concern with, 00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:33.400 - you had a concern about 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:41.240 - the ability to take the examination. There was some limiting factor you wanted to talk about, 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:47.400 - but I can't for the life of me remember what it was now. 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:56.760 - It doesn't trigger anything. Maybe it has something to do with people who have taken it before 00:24:56.760 --> 00:25:02.280 - or somebody that is actually qualified to take it or has time in grade or something like that. 00:25:02.280 --> 00:25:04.200 - I'm just guessing. 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:12.680 - Maybe was it however only those members that possess 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:19.080 - the required promotional items may take... Yeah, I think that was it. 00:25:19.080 --> 00:25:23.720 - However, only those members that possess the required promotional... 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:28.760 - Meet the requirements made to take the written exam. 00:25:28.760 --> 00:25:34.200 - Yeah, so it's not just time and rank and service. You also have to have the 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.280 - promotional guide elements to be able to take the written test. I believe that was it. 00:25:40.520 --> 00:25:44.280 - Or the ability to get. 00:25:44.280 --> 00:25:52.280 - Well, so that would allow some flexibility because right now it states that 00:25:52.280 --> 00:25:57.480 - all you have to have is the proper length of service and rank, but clearly you would need 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:01.160 - to have the promotional requirements beyond that to be able to take it. 00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:09.400 - So we could state it as currently possess or have the ability to possess if you wanted to 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:19.160 - allow some flexibility. And the concept there is if the department has a significant need for a 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:26.600 - position and we're somewhat in this boat now, but we're handling it OK. Say, for example, 00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:31.720 - you have many very new people and they're willing and able to get the certifications to get 00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:36.840 - the promotions. They just haven't had ample time yet, but we have a need today to fill them. 00:26:37.560 --> 00:26:42.840 - Sometimes you can have some leeway where as long as they look like they're ready for the spot, 00:26:42.840 --> 00:26:46.600 - they can get the certification that's missing within a year or something like that. 00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:51.640 - So the language here could potentially allow for something like that, depending on how we worded it. 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:57.560 - That makes sense. I mean, open to opinions as well. 00:26:57.560 --> 00:27:00.600 - Has thoughts on it. 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:12.280 - So I just need some good language to put in there that encapsulates what you're trying to say there. 00:27:12.280 --> 00:27:15.240 - However, only those members that possess 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:29.640 - the required, what was it, required promotion requirements or have the ability to within a, 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:34.760 - however, only those members that possess the promotion requirements or have the ability to 00:27:34.760 --> 00:27:42.040 - obtain them within the predetermined period may take the written examination. 00:27:42.040 --> 00:27:49.720 - And then it becomes a question of how much time you're going to give them. 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:51.880 - Well, could that be less? 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:56.440 - I don't know. Would that be appropriate to leave flexible? Because we wouldn't, 00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.560 - we wouldn't offer it if there wasn't a need to. But if there. 00:27:59.560 --> 00:28:03.160 - I don't like the idea of just kind of leaving it up to chance. 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:09.640 - How about not to exceed when you have possessed the current promotional requirements or have the 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:15.320 - ability to obtain them in a period within one year. However, only those members that possess 00:28:15.320 --> 00:28:20.360 - the promotional requirements within one year of their promotion. 00:28:20.360 --> 00:28:26.680 - No, because that's just to take the exam within one year of taking the exam. 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:31.560 - Also, we don't want to leave us so open-ended that then we have to take 00:28:32.600 --> 00:28:39.080 - candidates that don't possess the certification yet. Why don't we just leave it as they have to 00:28:39.080 --> 00:28:39.320 - have 00:28:39.320 --> 00:28:45.400 - it. And if it creates an issue, we can re-approach this at a future meeting and then going forward. 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:53.800 - On the fly at the moment. Yeah. So only those members that possess the promotional requirements 00:28:53.800 --> 00:29:10.120 - may take the exam. Is that the proper terminology? Yes. All right. So, however, 00:29:10.120 --> 00:29:17.000 - only those members is where it ends, right? And it just says member. However, so I'll amend member. 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:22.760 - However, only those members that possess the promotional requirements may take the examination. 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:29.800 - So that'll be the second. That's E. 00:29:29.800 --> 00:29:40.760 - 2G and 2E. 00:29:44.280 --> 00:29:59.000 - No, 1G and 2E. Sorry. Yeah. And next there in subsection, let's see, E, section 3. E3? Yeah, E3. 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:07.640 - I wondered, the department will notify each member in writing the score that the member received. 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:11.880 - Score received by a member of the written exam becomes part of the permanent file of the member 00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:19.240 - and the member is entitled to access his file for examination. Do we, is there any benefit 00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:28.520 - one way or the other? Are the, I guess my question is, are the grade results posted 00:30:28.520 --> 00:30:35.560 - for everybody to see? No, everyone does not get access to everyone else's grade. It is 00:30:35.560 --> 00:30:41.480 - only the individual. As it stands right now, they're taking an online exam and the person 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:51.960 - can hit submit, get their score, and it shows up on the, what do you, Proctor's website. So they, 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:58.840 - limited people have access to that. And they send it to you? They make it a sheet that they 00:30:58.840 --> 00:31:02.840 - can put into their record. So it's a, it'd be a big score sheet, right? So it'll be, 00:31:02.840 --> 00:31:10.440 - your test score is this, your assessment center score is this. That ultimate master grade sheet 00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:16.360 - is what goes in their permanent file. That gets sent to you by the vendor? No, the internal, 00:31:16.360 --> 00:31:21.400 - promotional stuff, this is what we do internally. The only one that we have a third party vendor 00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:21.640 - for 00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:28.360 - is the CPAC can be anywhere, but is the initial hiring test. Everything else has been done 00:31:28.360 --> 00:31:29.000 - internally. 00:31:30.120 --> 00:31:44.600 - So then do we have like a roster of who's up next on the promotion list? Yes. Okay. That's what we 00:31:44.600 --> 00:31:50.120 - like to create. That's good. Yes, so if it's a competitive position, there'll be those that 00:31:50.120 --> 00:31:54.360 - fill the immediate need followed by the ranking of those that didn't. And as long as they pass, 00:31:54.360 --> 00:31:59.480 - then they're eligible to promote within X amount of time from that list as the need arises. 00:31:59.960 --> 00:32:03.400 - They're not ranked in any order? They are ranked based on their performance, yeah. 00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:12.840 - So in a way, it's the cumulative score that they've got and that's what gets posted on all of the 00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:18.680 - stuff. That's the rank order that the promotion list is. The cumulative score, yes, what determines 00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:29.240 - the rank on the list. And that's public. Public within the department internally, we don't post 00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:36.440 - it on the bulletin board outside. But all the candidates are aware of where they rank because 00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:42.680 - the chief makes the notifications. You've passed this and you are second on the list or you're 00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:47.880 - fourth on the list or, you know. I think I see where you're going. Yeah, so they're ranking on 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:53.000 - the list. That is no. Their actual scores or how they perform to get to that rank, that is what's 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:58.440 - sealed. So if they want to go in a review and see how they can perform better or see how they 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:03.160 - perform well, they can do that individually but not of other people. The reason I went down this 00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:03.720 - path is 00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:15.880 - it's never good when, it's great that we're at a really professional way we're doing things these 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:23.640 - days. But if we weren't or if there was any hint of favoritism or somebody gets skipped over, 00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:32.200 - then that hurts morale. But when everybody knows where everybody stands and we're using 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:36.840 - a systematic approach, that keeps morale high and trust high in the department. 00:33:36.840 --> 00:33:44.680 - Good. Okay. I will add that Chief Kerr has also made it mandatory for a lot of the promotion 00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:49.800 - process to be finished as the individual needs to come in and look at their file along with like, 00:33:49.800 --> 00:33:55.160 - I think it's what Chief Zeeks or Chief Drescher that they had to sit down and they can go through 00:33:55.160 --> 00:34:01.240 - the evaluator's notes. How can I do better next time you did a great job on your interview, 00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:06.440 - you needed work on this, or different things to consider too. Even if you're number one, 00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:09.320 - we can always do better. There's always room for improvement. 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:11.720 - Yes, and now to make sure that's accurate. Yes. 00:34:11.720 --> 00:34:17.160 - That is what we need. So if they don't review that, they're wrong. I learned that in the army. 00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:21.960 - Sometimes personnel section makes mistakes. 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:33.960 - All right, that's good. Chris, just a side question. With all the ability of people to 00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:46.920 - submit a records request, we can keep... Subject to confidentiality records request, 00:34:48.520 --> 00:34:49.800 - we can keep that. Right. 00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:55.000 - Yeah, because it's an HR thing. Everything filters through legal confidentialities, 00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:01.960 - one of which is personnel records on various things, including all of this. 00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:06.440 - Because I could see somebody that felt wrong filing an open records request, 00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:12.280 - but this would be protected. Yeah, now in the lawsuit, probably not. 00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:14.840 - That's a subpoena. It would be different court 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:21.080 - orders and whatnot, but just for basic public records requests, this stuff will fall under 00:35:21.080 --> 00:35:24.520 - a category of confidentiality. Good. 00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.960 - Non-disclosure. Great. 00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:39.400 - Okay. In the next section then is G1. On performance evaluations, 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:42.200 - do we have a standard form for that? Yes. 00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:45.880 - Great. It'd be good for us to see that. Okay. 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.400 - I think. I'd like to see it. 00:35:49.400 --> 00:36:03.000 - Yeah, so that would help me understand how they get to us on a promotion list. 00:36:04.040 --> 00:36:16.600 - And the good part about a standard form is, you know, it is standardized and it's good. 00:36:16.600 --> 00:36:17.880 - You've run through the same thing. Yeah. 00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:23.240 - That this performance evaluations are. Thank you. 00:36:29.640 --> 00:36:34.920 - And we do these. At least once every six months. 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.720 - Every six months. Do you think that's too much? 00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:41.720 - It's merit board requirements, I believe, statutory. 00:36:41.720 --> 00:36:43.400 - State? Yes. 00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:47.880 - That is a statutory standard. Oh, man. 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:57.400 - That's a lot. I mean, think about most positions. 00:36:58.200 --> 00:36:59.800 - Once a year feels like too much. 00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:02.680 - Once a year? I mean, think of the administrative burden this puts on. 00:37:02.680 --> 00:37:06.680 - Agreed. And I think it lessens the potential positive impact it could have 00:37:06.680 --> 00:37:11.640 - if you do them too often because then people aren't going to put forth the full effort 00:37:11.640 --> 00:37:15.750 - into doing them. But at this point, you need to at least have it in there because it's a 00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:16.680 - requirement. 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:29.960 - Okay. And then we have the rating guide. Needs improvement, meets standards, above standards. 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:38.200 - That's great. So then there's the employee name, the data evaluation, and then 00:37:38.200 --> 00:37:44.760 - supervisor and reviewer or is it all the same? It should be either or. 00:37:45.640 --> 00:38:02.840 - Okay. Is there, so their direct supervisor fills this out. Is there a, oh well there's 00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:09.000 - supervisor comments. There's, and this is prescribed by the state or can we, do we have any ability? 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.120 - This is an internal document. So we could adjust it? 00:38:14.040 --> 00:38:16.040 - That's just what we're going with now. 00:38:16.040 --> 00:38:22.840 - And we've been using this for promotionary firefighters for 00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:31.720 - eight years and for a new firefighter to get off probation, their assigned officer would fill it 00:38:31.720 --> 00:38:37.320 - out and their battalion chief would also fill it out in reference to the firefighter before they 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:42.600 - would get off probation after their one year of hire. So the supervisor and battalion chief do 00:38:42.600 --> 00:38:47.880 - separate ones. Yes, this is the same form but they see that firefighter differently so. Right. 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:53.320 - That was going to be my question because I saw the supervisor thing. I'm used to a performance 00:38:53.320 --> 00:39:01.080 - evaluation. The supervisor fills out and then there's another section for a senior rater the 00:39:01.080 --> 00:39:09.400 - next level up and usually that person looks at it from a more strategic point of view saying things 00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:20.920 - like this employee, this firefighter is capable of in the career path to be able to do 00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:28.920 - this and this should look to the next level or whatever or should remain in current position 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:36.360 - for the next couple of years or whatever. But that's done two different forms. It's the same 00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:45.320 - form but they how the supervisor sees that firefighter is different. Does that make sense? 00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:49.560 - Yep. I know what I'm trying to say just trying to. Okay. 00:39:49.560 --> 00:40:05.560 - All right. I have a kind of an off the topic question and I think in state government this 00:40:05.560 --> 00:40:14.280 - goes back to county. If a sheriff, an elected sheriff loses an election 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:20.440 - because they're they can only be sheriff for eight years consecutively. 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:28.280 - They have to be reinstated at the department I think at the level of a sergeant if I'm not 00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:35.560 - mistaken and it used to be that way at least. So my off the little off the topic question is 00:40:35.560 --> 00:40:48.600 - if a fire chief has to leave due to a change of administration do we take the fire chief back at 00:40:48.600 --> 00:40:55.880 - some level? Yeah it is. Yes and it's in our rules and ranks. So if they're a sworn member that 00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:00.840 - promoted up through the ranks the answer is yes. They have to be given a spot. If they're civilian 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:09.400 - chief then their role is complete. I see that's good. That's also in the statutes it expresses 00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:15.000 - how that happens with regards to fire chief being removed from that position as fire chief. They go 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:21.240 - back to their their highest most recent rank. Highest most recent rank. Okay. 00:41:23.640 --> 00:41:27.960 - If sworn. Of course. I understand the difference. You wouldn't have a rank if you were a civilian 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:28.200 - chief. 00:41:28.200 --> 00:41:34.680 - You guys know the difference and all that. What happens that 00:41:34.680 --> 00:41:41.560 - a mayor could appoint his long-lost uncle to be the fire chief with no qualifications. 00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:50.840 - Yes. Currently we do and the last one was also civilian. The current one's a little 00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:57.640 - bit unique in that he was sworn and then converted to civilian when he took the chief spot. So he 00:41:57.640 --> 00:42:02.600 - technically retired as a sworn firefighter and then was appointed as a civilian chief. But 00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:03.000 - technically 00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:09.000 - he's a civilian chief as well. Chief Curtis. Chief Curtis. That was Chief Moore. Chief Moore was. 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:18.200 - Chief Curtis first said he was sworn. Okay. I bring that up because I think it's a fair thing 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:27.640 - for a fire chief who's sworn firefighter just because the political winds change 00:42:27.640 --> 00:42:33.400 - shouldn't have to be on the street. Agreed. So I think that's a good thing. So you say that's 00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:38.280 - someplace else in our rules and regs. We don't need to deal with that with this 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:45.000 - anywhere anyplace. It's built within the statute and I don't know that it's reflected in here. 00:42:45.640 --> 00:42:49.080 - Should it be? We have to follow the statute whether we like it or not. 00:42:49.080 --> 00:42:54.120 - It's not one of those things we'd have to vote on anyway. It's a pretty rare instance where the 00:42:54.120 --> 00:42:54.440 - fire 00:42:54.440 --> 00:43:00.440 - chief's going to get removed and I don't even believe the merit commission has a role in the 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:07.400 - fire chief being removed. Mayor would. Yeah. But in the statutes it talks about what happens if the 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:14.360 - fire chief is removed and he's a sworn officer. Good. Because mayors change. I'm saying this 00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:18.680 - right down tight. Yeah. Say yes. Chief and deputy. Yeah. Deputies in the same position. 00:43:18.680 --> 00:43:25.640 - Oh good. Yeah. Good. Takes care of you folks too, huh? Correct. Okay good. 00:43:25.640 --> 00:43:38.840 - Yes he's my boss. All right. He just went on record to say that. I did. I did. He's my boss and he's 00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:47.480 - going to do an amazing job. I will say it again. In section three, subsection B. Yes. Under 00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:48.520 - suspension. 00:43:48.520 --> 00:43:55.960 - Okay. Down there in the second or third sense. In addition, the unit territory or district. 00:43:55.960 --> 00:44:03.160 - Well can't we just say. Yeah that's that's. Can we just say amended to. Say city or department. 00:44:03.160 --> 00:44:09.160 - Department. Okay. Yeah you are right. 00:44:09.160 --> 00:44:13.160 - You see where that is? Yeah. 00:44:13.160 --> 00:44:23.800 - The statute. In addition, the unit territory or district. Yes. It'll just read the department. 00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:28.520 - Yeah the statute always goes through that litany. I just didn't catch it that time. I didn't clean 00:44:28.520 --> 00:44:36.360 - it out. I think I caught it hopefully everywhere else. Okay then in the next page then page 10 00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:51.240 - section D talks about a hearing officer or designated. Let's see parties may agree to 00:44:51.240 --> 00:45:07.560 - designate a hearing officer. So in this section does the hearing officer make a final decision? 00:45:07.560 --> 00:45:09.880 - Goodness. 00:45:16.120 --> 00:45:22.360 - Because I just wasn't it kind of insinuates that it does. There's a hearing conducted 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:32.520 - but it doesn't really say it doesn't really say makes a binding decision I don't think. 00:45:32.520 --> 00:45:38.280 - I think that might be the investigator. The hearing officer might be the one who is actually 00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:47.960 - gets to run it you know is yeah. So I'm trying to figure out you know I understand 00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:57.160 - you'd want to have an investigation and then um then 00:45:57.160 --> 00:46:07.400 - a hearing officer a hearing shall be conducted upon the request of the member. 00:46:09.240 --> 00:46:15.720 - So well so it's gonna this is deciding who the trier of fact is going to be yeah okay sorry I 00:46:15.720 --> 00:46:22.920 - had to read through it again and only if the parties agree will they be able to designate 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:31.800 - a hearing officer to conduct the hearing okay and so yes if the parties agree to have a hearing 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:39.080 - officer do this it takes it out of the hands of the commission and the hearing is conducted by 00:46:39.080 --> 00:46:44.680 - that hearing officer who is qualified by education training and experience I don't know what that 00:46:44.680 --> 00:46:52.200 - means but they'll have to decide if the person is qualified to do the job so then all of the 00:46:52.200 --> 00:46:57.800 - procedure for the hearing is followed and the trier of fact is the hearing officer who makes 00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:04.600 - the final decision okay okay if the party don't agree within the five day period to get that 00:47:04.600 --> 00:47:11.080 - designated hearing officer then the commission can be the trier of fact okay so the commission 00:47:11.080 --> 00:47:19.480 - can hold the hearing or they can they they can designate a person which in other words is another 00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:26.600 - way to get a hearing officer appointed right so if the parties don't agree to a hearing officer 00:47:26.600 --> 00:47:32.440 - the commission can create can designate a hearing officer or they can say let the board of public 00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:40.120 - safety do it but the intent ultimately is for the commission i think to be the body that does this 00:47:40.120 --> 00:47:44.520 - it doesn't come out and say that but that's why this mayor commission was created in the first 00:47:44.520 --> 00:47:44.760 - place 00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:51.640 - this this is weird i'll admit it but it gives a lot of flexibility to who's going to be that 00:47:51.640 --> 00:47:57.400 - trier of fact it could be a a hearing officer it could be the commission but if the commission for 00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:04.120 - some reason would prefer they can designate somebody else to do it or appoint or designate 00:48:04.120 --> 00:48:08.680 - the board of public safety to do it because the board of public safety is still in business 00:48:08.680 --> 00:48:18.120 - this gives us a lot this gives us a subpoena authority doesn't it more or less as we go on 00:48:18.120 --> 00:48:24.360 - yeah yeah as you go down you see the trier of fact has subpoena power through the commission 00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:31.160 - which is using subpoena power through the courts and then the person may appeal 00:48:31.160 --> 00:48:39.320 - there's that you know and then if they don't like our decision they can appeal to the circuit court 00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:45.080 - that's right that's the final that's the final sayer here that's kind of odd isn't it but 00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:56.120 - yeah i hope that was interesting okay next then is in section m subsection one under summary 00:48:56.120 --> 00:49:04.840 - disciplinary action i just need a clarification here because i'm trying to figure this out in 00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:09.240 - my mind um in addition to the disciplinary powers of commission the chief may without 00:49:09.240 --> 00:49:15.800 - without a hearing reprimand or suspend a member without pay for a maximum of five working days 00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:22.600 - for purposes of subsection eight hours of paid time constitutes one working day 00:49:22.600 --> 00:49:28.200 - so the way i figure that is that's a shift and a half essentially yeah 40 hours isn't aligned 00:49:28.200 --> 00:49:34.920 - really with our schedule so likely if that were to be implemented it would probably be 36 hours 00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:40.680 - for a shift and a half we that's really weird yeah i think you'd have to leave halfway through 00:49:40.680 --> 00:49:47.640 - a second shift well half shifts are common for us people will take 12 hours off okay it's pretty 00:49:47.640 --> 00:49:54.290 - routine so this would actually align well with our schedule should we make it 36 hours if if we 00:49:54.290 --> 00:49:54.440 - were 00:49:54.440 --> 00:50:01.240 - to suspend them for 40 hours that would be very weird for us because then then we're really like 00:50:01.240 --> 00:50:05.320 - part way through a shift we're not halfway through it's it's really easy to fill half 00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:12.040 - shifts we do ams and vms okay but yeah a 40 hour would be much more difficult to accommodate 00:50:12.040 --> 00:50:17.240 - on the roster so you're right it would likely be a 36 hour yeah because when you first read that 00:50:17.240 --> 00:50:17.400 - you 00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:25.720 - think well five working days but then it defines a working day is eight hours but for for you guys 00:50:25.720 --> 00:50:32.360 - a working day is 24 hours correct yeah yeah i assume the language from the statute was probably 00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:38.440 - something standard and then they defined it a little more for us to mean working days in this 00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:43.480 - case is truly 40 hours in which case we would probably exercise it in something that made a 00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:52.760 - little more sense great well that's a good thing um i just was i wanted to make sure we had both 00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:58.760 - eyes open on that because it could be confusing yeah it's the same language on the other side 00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:05.400 - with border public safety so we on this side of the table are familiar with that right calculation 00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:11.640 - and i think that's a good section because you know we all know that 00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:17.720 - bad things can happen and a chief needs that kind of authority to 00:51:17.720 --> 00:51:22.920 - to demonstrate to the public that we're taking something seriously 00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:27.720 - yeah and in those instances all the chief has to do is give a written notice of the fact that it 00:51:27.720 --> 00:51:34.680 - happened to the commission but a member who has been reprimanded does still have recourse they can 00:51:34.680 --> 00:51:43.240 - they can ask for the a review it's not quite a hearing like a like we would do for discipline 00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:50.440 - that comes to the merit commission but there's still an opportunity to review okay good and then 00:51:50.440 --> 00:52:04.200 - in section n um who's our medical director yeah she's awesome great um she's with uh iu health 00:52:04.200 --> 00:52:13.560 - so she is she a city employee then or no so she does it through iu health so we don't compensate 00:52:13.560 --> 00:52:22.920 - her for that volunteer i believe the medical director is i guess that would all be compensated 00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:31.640 - via iu health right but they actually have that arranged well before the ambulance service was a 00:52:31.640 --> 00:52:37.960 - budgetary thing when the ambulance service was taking care of that but since lifeline and iu 00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:45.880 - health have gone that we are now under iu health not the ambulance service for medical direction 00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:53.320 - is actually the supervising hospital so it is iu health so this is likely how they're putting out 00:52:53.320 --> 00:53:00.360 - as a community outreach or something along those lines but i do not have that i'd be curious to 00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:08.120 - know how how we have that arranged it's important because i don't know and i think i'd like to have 00:53:08.120 --> 00:53:15.400 - that answer because it seems like well i'm not going to say anything on the record i don't know 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:22.280 - how that is let's learn and discuss arranged and we can provide that information to you later 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:29.800 - well it gives this person some significant authority they've got well and rightfully so 00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:34.680 - because you have emt's right who are doing work under their direction and if they think that the 00:53:34.680 --> 00:53:40.120 - emt is screwing up they should have the authority to to do something about it so that's that's what 00:53:40.120 --> 00:53:45.650 - this whole section is and again it's a regurgitation basically of the statutory language that 00:53:45.650 --> 00:53:46.120 - exists 00:53:46.120 --> 00:53:48.920 - and it also exists in our medical protocols as well 00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:59.480 - it's it'd be interesting to know whether there is some sort of contractual arrangement between the 00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:00.040 - city 00:54:00.040 --> 00:54:05.080 - i'd like to know how that works so i and i don't have any answer for you at this point because 00:54:05.080 --> 00:54:19.160 - um i could see where someone who was suspended could question the kind of legal standing that 00:54:19.160 --> 00:54:25.080 - the medical director has with their ability to perform their job 00:54:25.080 --> 00:54:37.320 - they have they have review they have appeal slash review rights the state has an ems commission 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:44.120 - which a lot of times the complaints go up through that as well so and they also have the disciplinary 00:54:44.120 --> 00:54:53.160 - powers as well so they can revoke suspend yeah as they see fit yeah we can't we're knocking on this 00:54:53.160 --> 00:54:59.480 - side of the house to do anything with regards to their emt certification but if they have issues 00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:04.520 - off with their emt certification that put their job in jeopardy it's going to end up being an 00:55:04.520 --> 00:55:12.600 - an issue on our side of the house as well right how how do we how does our department get um 00:55:12.600 --> 00:55:20.280 - um figure out who the supervising hospital is does the state do that well no they sign 00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:25.800 - off every two years we do a certification recertification process the bfd is a 00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:35.080 - non-transport bls provider for the state so every every two years we send the protocols we have 00:55:35.080 --> 00:55:42.200 - paperwork signed by the ambulance service as a transport the doctor pedo as the medical director 00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:52.200 - and we sent like i said the copy of the protocols our roster at the time and we have to send that 00:55:52.200 --> 00:56:01.640 - 30 to 60 days in advance of the expiration and we displayed that certificate it's in here so 00:56:01.640 --> 00:56:09.800 - you could but again it's permissions protocols and whatnot have to be provided through there 00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:15.960 - through if we were to do that so right now dr pedo takes care of all the fire departments 00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:22.280 - within minrow county i'm not sure of minrow simply because they have their own ambulance 00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:31.320 - but she has been taking care of bedford area green county minrow county 00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:36.760 - so several counties in this area she's been the medical director for quite some time 00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:47.240 - so then in subsection b there the medical director may terminate a member's emt certification 00:56:47.240 --> 00:56:55.960 - so is that their state certification or is that their certification for 00:56:55.960 --> 00:57:01.880 - being able to do it for us their state certification it's got nothing to do with working here 00:57:03.240 --> 00:57:08.440 - wow and she would let's say theoretically she would send that she would send that up through 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:15.320 - their chain up through the ems medical commission as well so it would be a state censure type 00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:21.640 - revocation of a person's certification would happen through the commission it's got nothing 00:57:21.640 --> 00:57:29.000 - to do with us the member will no longer be permitted to operate and the department is 00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:35.240 - a frontline firefighter because so are all of our firefighters ent certified all of a sudden 00:57:35.240 --> 00:57:40.840 - part of their emergency medical responders they are grandfathered in because they've been here 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:46.120 - for quite some time so but every new firefighter since 2002 has become an ent 00:57:46.120 --> 00:57:50.760 - is required before they are released from probation and by their one year 00:57:55.080 --> 00:58:00.280 - since 2002 they have to take the class pardon me since 2002 they have to start taking the class 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:07.480 - yeah they can either come in with the emt or if they do not have that we send 00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:13.400 - candidates through great okay 00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:23.480 - um under four section four miscellaneous retirement age 00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:31.080 - okay member shall retirement apartment when the member reaches 00:58:31.080 --> 00:58:45.240 - the 70th birthday um how do we land on that date i that state i think that state and as part of her 00:58:45.240 --> 00:58:51.640 - for something or um i forget there it's it's sprinkled about in different places for firefighters 00:58:51.640 --> 00:58:58.680 - for firefighters it wasn't internally said number yeah not not us somebody else okay yeah 00:58:58.680 --> 00:59:05.880 - and then 00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:14.520 - subsection four member may be informed by the department of the members 00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:23.240 - reinstatement so we're this is back if there was a riff so if we're going to reinstate people 00:59:23.240 --> 00:59:28.440 - by written notice the notice shall specify the date and time in which the department requires 00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:36.920 - the member to report for duty within 10 calendar days after a member receives notice of reinstatement 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:42.040 - the member must advise the department that the member accepts reinstatement and will 00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:47.160 - will be able to commence employment on the date specified in the notice 00:59:47.160 --> 00:59:53.800 - the rip all reinstatement rights granted to a member terminate upon the member's failure 00:59:53.800 --> 01:00:01.240 - to accept reinstatement within this specified period my my question there is can we 01:00:01.240 --> 01:00:08.920 - let's say we ripped somebody and they go get a job someplace else 01:00:10.120 --> 01:00:16.760 - can we make sure that we give them 14 calendar days to in other words a two week notice to 01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:21.960 - whomever they went to work for i believe that this is just a notice saying that they have 10 01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:28.280 - days to respond i don't think anybody reasonably would expect them we can't give them less than 01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:34.040 - 10 days we have to give them at least 10 days but it's so that they've got those 10 days to let us 01:00:34.040 --> 01:00:40.040 - know that they're actually able to do so but it's just a what kurt's saying is can we put in here 01:00:40.040 --> 01:00:48.040 - that we're going to give at least a 14 day window so that they can give a commensurate two week 01:00:48.040 --> 01:00:53.640 - notice to to quit i can't see where we would demand an answer and a report for duty on day 10 01:00:53.640 --> 01:01:00.440 - it's just rude but maybe we should specify yeah i don't think it'd be wrong to amend with that 01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:08.840 - yeah so the notice itself has 10 days to respond but the date of reporting for duty cannot be less 01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:16.360 - than 14 days from the issue so that's where i was yeah yeah i like that yeah because you know you 01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:27.160 - guys are running this the right way but there could be a time that's why we change that i think 01:01:27.160 --> 01:01:27.400 - that'd 01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:33.640 - be great so that'd be an amendment as well so you have 14 days so we have four right now four 01:01:33.640 --> 01:01:41.960 - amendments as i as i'm keeping track is that correct right okay 01:01:41.960 --> 01:01:52.520 - okay 01:01:52.520 --> 01:02:03.160 - and what i must advise the department that the member of secretary of state will be able to 01:02:03.160 --> 01:02:04.840 - commence employment 01:02:08.120 --> 01:02:12.680 - well you could just add to that chris on the date specified in the notice 01:02:12.680 --> 01:02:27.560 - um which you know will be at least 14 calendar days or no less than yeah no less than 14 calendar 01:02:27.560 --> 01:02:38.920 - days 01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:49.960 - and that's all i saw in all this it's a good thing you saw that 01:02:52.520 --> 01:02:58.760 - well you know you just read it from i guess a lot of this is you know i've had to deal with 01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:04.440 - all kinds of issues in the army and uh that's why the army's books like that 01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:12.440 - of all the things that can go wrong this is much easier 01:03:19.080 --> 01:03:28.360 - how i'm going to change for before i'm going to add another sentence after the second sentence 01:03:28.360 --> 01:03:35.880 - so that second sentence reads the notice shall specify the date and time in which the department 01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:42.280 - requires the member to report for duty the date then this is the new sentence the date to report 01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:49.640 - shall be no less than 14 days from the date of notice 01:03:49.640 --> 01:03:54.200 - great 01:03:54.200 --> 01:04:01.080 - how's that sound 01:04:11.080 --> 01:04:20.280 - i think either jeff needs to withdraw his motion or we should vote on jeff's motion 01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:30.600 - and if it fails entertain a new motion to adopt the report the the the rules as amended 01:04:30.600 --> 01:04:37.480 - and i don't care how you would like to arrive at it if you feel adamant that you'd like to try and 01:04:37.480 --> 01:04:44.120 - have the rules adopted without amendment we can carry on if you'd like to withdraw 01:04:44.120 --> 01:04:50.840 - i'd be the cleanest way your motion then we could have a new motion put on the table as amended 01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:58.520 - i'll draw my motion and i'll draw my second perfect all right and then we can 01:04:58.520 --> 01:05:05.880 - have a new motion to approve these as amended yes so can i get a motion to approve the 01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:12.840 - uh the fire mayor commission rules and procedures as amended 01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:19.800 - on today's day can be a motion to accept that i'll i'll make that motion second i'll second 01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:25.640 - all in favor say aye all right any opposed 01:05:25.640 --> 01:05:30.040 - very good good work 01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:39.080 - that is good work i think i need to read this more critically more critically 01:05:39.080 --> 01:05:46.520 - then zoom then go on to new business if yeah i don't think there is any but 01:05:46.520 --> 01:05:52.600 - new business staff reports anybody have any reports to give 01:05:52.600 --> 01:05:57.800 - this is where we talk about our upcoming schedule what you want to do in june 01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:03.880 - uh as it stands right now we have two known lateral candidates we are doing some due 01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:09.400 - diligence and making sure that those who have claimed firefighter certifications are not 01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:17.240 - working elsewhere that might also qualify as a lateral so but we are only hiring two 01:06:17.240 --> 01:06:25.800 - so we're looking at interview how do you want to proceed in june do you want to interview and 01:06:28.200 --> 01:06:38.840 - uh i guess bless them to go forward in the process in the june meeting approve them 01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:46.200 - or would you like to interview one meeting and do the next we had a total of 29 candidates who 01:06:46.200 --> 01:06:51.320 - passed the interview in the test i do not think correct me if i'm wrong i would not think you'd 01:06:51.320 --> 01:06:58.120 - want to interview 29 candidates for a list all in one evening we've kind of been speculating 01:06:58.120 --> 01:06:58.520 - getting 01:06:58.520 --> 01:07:05.880 - you two for the spots that we have in september and then setting a date later for our ongoing 01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:14.600 - hire list of 15 or so then the remainder of the candidates would be on standby not first interview 01:07:14.600 --> 01:07:20.840 - would be in september they would be for the september hires so what i want to know is do you 01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:29.080 - want to interview people in june or do you want to identify and just do the two and then set a date 01:07:29.080 --> 01:07:36.920 - for 15 interviews at another date or would you rather do 17 in one evening it's basically the 01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:42.200 - first to fill an immediate need for two vacancies so you would interview them approve them for hire 01:07:42.200 --> 01:07:48.120 - they're good then the next day interviews next year it'd be for a conditional approval so basically 01:07:48.680 --> 01:07:52.760 - you give them thumbs up as long as they complete there's a need there's a vacancy and they complete 01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:57.480 - the remaining steps then you don't have to interview them again right and that list is 01:07:57.480 --> 01:08:06.360 - what we would go is what the merit is it's good for two years so we could interview the two that 01:08:06.360 --> 01:08:14.200 - you're thinking of in june and then do two other groups in july or august september yeah and that 01:08:14.200 --> 01:08:21.080 - group would be a significant you know 15 or so that we would have for that because i do know that 01:08:21.080 --> 01:08:26.120 - at least one of those on the list is already on another fire department's hiring list as well so 01:08:26.120 --> 01:08:33.560 - by the time we're ready to hire in late winter early spring some of those candidates will likely 01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:40.200 - have found employment elsewhere so i hope not i hope they would like to just stay with us but 01:08:40.200 --> 01:08:50.600 - i want to be realistic so that's and we have five questions for you prepared embedded by hr so you 01:08:50.600 --> 01:08:59.400 - just need to interview and your interviews pass fail so you know as it stands so just let us know 01:08:59.400 --> 01:09:15.160 - how you would like to move in the event that we do find another lateral that meets that there's 01:09:15.160 --> 01:09:23.720 - i would also put them forward and these two when you say there are somewhere else there is a 77 01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:30.280 - plan their perf plan they're ready to go i am just once somebody has claimed firefighter certifications 01:09:30.280 --> 01:09:36.840 - i just want to make sure that they are not in in a fire department that's also for a perf 01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:37.400 - department 01:09:37.400 --> 01:09:44.360 - that you know i mean i don't know where everyone's at right i know we're linton and speedway and uh 01:09:44.360 --> 01:09:49.480 - bedford and columbus and all these other ones are i know that they're in the perf but i don't know 01:09:49.480 --> 01:09:56.440 - where midland and alt it so i don't know where everyone is so i don't know if they're so we make 01:09:56.440 --> 01:10:03.240 - them all do we need a motion to do that or we i don't know i think if you if we put it on the 01:10:03.240 --> 01:10:08.600 - agenda the interviews for candidates or i just need to know that that's going to be an executive 01:10:08.600 --> 01:10:14.040 - session that happens in june so there'll be an executive session that will occur 01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:22.680 - i would presume about an hour before the regular meeting would take place okay 01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:29.080 - if we need a regular meeting what that might be the only thing that you need to do but we'll figure 01:10:29.080 --> 01:10:35.160 - a regular meeting to yeah we'll figure the process out because this is all so very new for us 01:10:35.160 --> 01:10:41.640 - and advise you but at the very least there's an executive session and i expect that immediately 01:10:41.640 --> 01:10:48.840 - following that will be a regular meeting that approves the candidate for uh for the lateral 01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:54.760 - positions that'd be perfect yeah and this would be the next and that'll be in june 24th correct 01:10:54.760 --> 01:11:07.080 - these are enacted these are enacted in three days once we does that matter as far as 01:11:08.200 --> 01:11:13.160 - next meeting be 28 days yeah because you've taken off right right yeah 01:11:13.160 --> 01:11:23.480 - yeah we can change the date question on the timing 30 days and 28 days to the meeting 01:11:23.480 --> 01:11:28.600 - these need to be in effect for 30 days prior to utilizing them is there a 30 day 01:11:29.720 --> 01:11:38.520 - and the meeting is 28 days from now what i thank you um it's something we just we talked about 01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:48.760 - yeah rules have been adopted they need to get posted and 30 days from today they take effect 01:11:48.760 --> 01:11:56.440 - which means we cannot start doing hiring until after the 27th of june so we could bump it back 01:11:56.440 --> 01:12:05.160 - a week or or do we just put it to the board of public safety for june yeah whatever's easiest 01:12:05.160 --> 01:12:11.960 - that still gets us time yeah in which case we wouldn't even need the june 01:12:11.960 --> 01:12:18.280 - meeting i don't think and we can figure that out later and you said you're leaving you're 01:12:18.280 --> 01:12:24.760 - leaving for vacation or you're out of town i'm retired yes i have a summer home in northern 01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:35.800 - michigan it is but it's not convenient for this because i'm gone july august last week in june 01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:47.000 - first week in september so two and a half months you can zoom i can zoom but nicole has to be here 01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:55.640 - then and we need three physical yeah as long as the other three are physically present you can 01:12:55.640 --> 01:13:05.800 - attend by zoom and be considered present for all voting and everything necessary what we can't do 01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:13.320 - is have you zoom in and be counted towards a quorum because you need to have three because 01:13:13.320 --> 01:13:17.480 - we only have four members right now we got we're supposed to have five three makes a quorum 01:13:17.480 --> 01:13:24.360 - and we then you can only make a quorum by those who are physically present does that make sense 01:13:24.360 --> 01:13:31.800 - yes yeah if tuesday is a good day of the week for everyone could we just move it to the next week 01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:42.440 - and we would avoid your schedule conflict and we stare out yeah oh you're out oh okay i see sorry 01:13:42.440 --> 01:13:44.760 - well it won't be an issue if nicole can attend 01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:57.080 - we leave sometime that first week of july for a vacation for a baseball trip but but it may not 01:13:57.080 --> 01:14:03.560 - be till it because the first is the first is the next tuesday correct yeah yeah so i don't think we 01:14:03.560 --> 01:14:09.880 - leave i don't think we leave till the second so i can actually do the first i mean we don't have to 01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:16.600 - do that right i was just good for the first as well throw something out easier sooner the better 01:14:16.600 --> 01:14:22.920 - right sure yeah well we gotta wait 30 days yeah i mean after the 30 days the sooner we can do it 01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:23.080 - the 01:14:23.080 --> 01:14:30.680 - better yeah the first should be fine for me if she came out of 10 first do you want to 01:14:30.680 --> 01:14:38.760 - consider using the board of public safety one more time for these two 01:14:39.320 --> 01:14:47.000 - two i did say in the last meeting it could be potentially because depending on the rule so 01:14:47.000 --> 01:14:52.600 - we have that option until these rules are in effect this board is unable to operate and so 01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:59.160 - therefore i believe that the board of public safety still can maintain jurisdiction over these 01:14:59.160 --> 01:15:06.600 - in the event that we would not be able to do it on the first yeah we'd have time before the agenda 01:15:06.600 --> 01:15:13.640 - gets posted so we just need to find and then i'd back it up the last part of that week before 01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:20.760 - because that we would have our rules would have been placed for 30 days by then by the 26th the 01:15:20.760 --> 01:15:26.840 - 26 will be the date that they become effective so we could meet on the 26th or 27th 01:15:26.840 --> 01:15:33.960 - of june of june or even june 30th 01:15:33.960 --> 01:15:43.000 - if we're looking at a june date maybe utilities on the 30th 01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:46.600 - we do don't we 01:15:46.600 --> 01:15:55.960 - well we've got some options there yeah i guess we should ask nicole 01:16:00.840 --> 01:16:06.360 - uh those all work about i'm not saying why i was in the 30th the 20 26 or 27th would work 01:16:06.360 --> 01:16:13.800 - but i don't have to be here chief career than you'll be here so that doesn't necessarily matter 01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:19.640 - do we know if we're any closer to that bit remember yet 01:16:19.640 --> 01:16:25.720 - i don't sorry i don't mean to laugh but you know i don't whose appointment is that 01:16:26.280 --> 01:16:37.160 - mayor are we closer to the fifth so i'm going to update the rules tomorrow morning get them to you 01:16:37.160 --> 01:16:44.280 - so that you can um furnish copies to all department members 01:16:44.280 --> 01:16:53.720 - yeah we'll put it on our learning management system and make your requirement all must read 01:16:53.720 --> 01:16:58.440 - and acknowledge so yeah there's no question about the fact that they can furnish the morning the 01:16:58.440 --> 01:17:03.160 - monkey right because otherwise they don't take effect until copies are furnished to all the 01:17:03.160 --> 01:17:07.720 - members right and so we just i just want to make sure you get that done so i'm giving you as much 01:17:07.720 --> 01:17:13.320 - time as possible to have that happen so you'll get the you'll get the adopted rules tomorrow 01:17:13.320 --> 01:17:16.520 - and they take effect 30 days after today 01:17:20.440 --> 01:17:26.360 - or would it be tomorrow no 30 days from today it took effect today when we adopted them okay 01:17:26.360 --> 01:17:31.240 - i'm sorry they were adopted today at this meeting they take effect 30 days from today 01:17:31.240 --> 01:17:38.200 - words all right i i as 30 days past all of them had to be 01:17:38.200 --> 01:17:42.280 - no i'm going with your words 01:17:45.080 --> 01:17:50.600 - starting today here not when we supply them to them correct okay 01:17:50.600 --> 01:17:54.280 - i would just however yeah 01:17:54.280 --> 01:18:08.440 - no so if we weren't able to get copies to everybody then they take effect 01:18:08.440 --> 01:18:14.120 - if the 30 days have expired and we still didn't get copies to everybody 01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:19.160 - they don't take effect until all members have received a copy that's how that works 01:18:19.160 --> 01:18:22.920 - interesting 01:18:22.920 --> 01:18:30.040 - we have 30 days to get them to everybody which i'm sure we can do 01:18:30.040 --> 01:18:33.480 - all right 01:18:37.880 --> 01:18:45.160 - we will find out whether nicole is available on one of those last days of june 01:18:45.160 --> 01:18:57.240 - and go from there or july 1st we or july 1st and we will advise the board members 01:18:57.240 --> 01:19:02.280 - accordingly as to what to expect with regards to those two lateral positions 01:19:05.960 --> 01:19:12.120 - we know that on the 10th or so so that we could give advanced notice okay 01:19:12.120 --> 01:19:19.160 - we'll have to notify nicole of our intentions and whether she thinks she's available for a 01:19:19.160 --> 01:19:29.480 - executive session and special meeting in person in person on one of those available days at the end 01:19:29.480 --> 01:19:35.960 - of the month i just want candidates two weeks notice i understand so we'll try to reach out to her 01:19:35.960 --> 01:19:36.360 - tomorrow 01:19:36.360 --> 01:19:41.240 - won't we heather 01:19:56.840 --> 01:20:00.760 - back to you eric all right can i get a motion to adjourn 01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:05.880 - well did we do public comment sorry public comments not that there's any public care 01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:15.320 - there are any public comments no seeing none can i get a motion to adjourn i'll make that motion 01:20:15.320 --> 01:20:18.360 - all right perfect meeting adjourned 01:20:48.360 --> 01:20:51.280 - (orchestral music) 01:20:51.280 --> 01:20:54.200 - (orchestral music) 01:20:54.200 --> 01:20:57.120 - (orchestral music) 01:20:57.560 --> 01:21:00.480 - (orchestral music) 01:21:00.480 --> 01:21:03.400 - (orchestral music) 01:21:03.400 --> 01:21:06.320 - (orchestral music) 01:21:06.320 --> 01:21:09.240 - (orchestral music) 01:21:09.240 --> 01:21:12.160 - (orchestral music) 01:21:12.160 --> 01:21:15.080 - (orchestral music) 01:21:15.080 --> 01:21:18.000 - (orchestral music) 01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:20.920 - 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