- All right, I would like to call this meeting of the Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission to
- order. Can we get a roll call? Duncan Campbell? Here. Drew Heron? Jack Baker? Here. John Butler? Here.
- Ernesto Castaneda? Here. Melody Dugner? Here. Karen Duffy? Here. Jeremy Hackard? Here. Abby Hanson?
- Here. Daniel Schlegel?
- We have quorum. And Jeff Goldin. Oh, Jeff, I'm so sorry. Jeff Goldin? Just walked in. OK. There's a
- better chair over there. All right, let's move on to election of offices. Is there anybody? We can do
- this one of two ways.
- wait for a larger body and elect offices for this meeting, or we can go ahead and take nominees for
- chair and vice chair for the year. Does anybody have a motion for chair, either for the year or for
- this meeting? I'll do it. OK, so that's a nomination for Jeremy Hackard from Jeremy Hackard. For this
- meeting or for the whole year? Either one.
- I'll second that. I'll go for the year. So we have a motion on the floor to nominate Jeremy Hackard
- as the commission chair for 2026. We have a second. We'll go ahead and take a vote. Voting members only,
- please. Jack Baker? Yes. John Butler? Yes. Ernesto Castaneda? Yes. Melanie Duesner is not here.
- Jeff Golden? I'll stand for himself. Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hackard? Yes.
- Abbey Hanson not here, Daniel Schlegel. Yes. That motion passes. Congratulations to our chair.
- Thank you. Do you want to take away the next item? Yeah, sure. So next up is the election of the vice
- chair. Are there any nominations for vice chair? Shall I say someone's name?
- Is there anybody that, if anybody wants to throw around any nominations of your colleagues? Jack, are
- you interested? Because you were chair for a year, weren't you? At the committee. Here? No. I haven't
- been an officer here. Okay. There's some reason I thought you had. Would you vote? I will. So is that
- a motion to nominate? Yeah, I'll nominate Jack.
- Second. Okay, we have a motion to nominate Jack Baker as the vice chair for 2026 or for this meeting.
- Thank you. Okay, so we'll take that vote. Jack Baker? Yes. John Butler? Yes. Ernesto Castaneda? Yes.
- Jeff Golden? Yes. Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hackard? Yes.
- Daniel Schlegel? Yes. That motion passes, and congratulations to our vice chair. So one thing that I
- wanted to add at this point in the meeting is city council, I believe, recently passed ordinance 2026-04,
- which makes some amendments to title two that handles boards and commissions. As I understand it, one
- of the changes that might
- affect our commission is that they're proposing that each board or commission have a elected secretary
- and treasurer. Right now, both of these things are handled by housing and neighborhood development.
- So I'm gonna wait some more clarification on that, but I wanted to give everyone a heads up. Next up
- on the agenda is approval of the minutes for January 22nd. Do I have a motion?
- I'll move for approval. Do we have a second? I'll second it. Excellent. OK, there's a motion to approve
- the minutes of the February of the January 22nd HPC meeting. Jack Baker? Yes. John Butler? Yes. Ernesto
- Castaneda? Yes. Melanie Duesner? I'm sorry, she's not here. Jeff Golden? I'm staying. Karen Duffy? Yes.
- Jeremy Hackard? Yes. Daniel Schlegel?
- Yes. Minutes are approved. Excellent. Next up is a staff review for COA 2606 Miller. All right, our
- first item, certificate of appropriateness 2606. The address is 213 East 14th Street in the Garden Hill
- Historic District. Petitioner is Troy Hanna. This is a non-contributing property.
- The request is for the replacement of the windows and front door, neither of which are original to the
- house, as well as in-kind replacements of the siding and roofing materials and the replacement of a
- clamshell aluminum awning with a lumber awning, gable-shaped capped with roofing shingles.
- The staff approved COA 2606. Replacement of the roof shingles and siding and kind is not subject to
- review and this work can be conducted without the commission or staff approval. Existing windows and
- doors are not original and the proposed replacements would closely match the existing size and configuration.
- The aluminum awnings are a later mid-century addition but do not necessarily confer greater historic
- or architectural significance.
- The new proposed pediment over the front door is sympathetic to the design of the house and its period
- of construction. All right. Next up is commission reviews for certificates of appropriateness. I'm going
- to read the statement here. The procedure for COAs and demolition delays for each item, the Historic
- Preservation Program Manager, NOAA, will first present a staff report
- We will then hear if the petitioner has any additional information, followed by a round of questions
- from each commissioner. We ask that petitioners, the public, and commissioners refrain from speaking
- until addressed by the chair, which is me, unless the question is directly addressed to them. If a member
- of the public or a petitioner wishes to comment, please raise your hand until recognized by the chair.
- Once a motion is made, we will then open up a discussion of the item for members of the commission.
- We encourage all commissioners, petitioners, and members of the public to be civil and respectful at
- all times. All right. Noah, go ahead. Just a second. I think we're working with this new format.
- no okay so this is 2604 okay property in question is 302 North Roger Street the Bethel AME Church which
- is an individually listed historic district the petitioner is Alan Edmonds I believe the petitioner
- is present online okay okay
- This is an outstanding 1922 Tudor revival limestone church with some classical features. Bethel AME
- Church is an individually listed historic district built by Bloomington architect John Nichols in 1922.
- It has served the same congregation since its inception and is relatively unaltered aside from plastic
- coverings over the stained glass windows to improve insulation. The Bethel congregation itself
- was incorporated in 1870
- The congregation is applying to the city of Bloomington seal grant. Sorry for a blue city of Bloomington
- seal grant to cover the cost of an energy audit and $10,000 contributing to the replacement of windows.
- Uh, this request, which, uh, was sent to me by Alan Edmonds is as follows. Our current plan is to replace
- all 39 double hung windows. We aim to match the grid layouts in all cases. The replacements of the two
- pentagonal windows and two trapezoidal windows will not be double hung and will not open.
- One other point is that we plan to use obscured glass on all the windows on the lower level, but clear
- glass on the upper levels and on the east end of the building, including the east ends of the north
- and south sides. We are not replacing the triangular area over the side door on the south side. It appears
- to be in decent shape, and it might be tricky to match the grid there. As for the metal trim, which
- is proposed for the window sills, it will be caulked in place and should be watertight
- The existing exterior wood trim has not been properly maintained for many years, I'm afraid. My hope
- and expectation is that the caulk-sealed metal trim covering all wood trim will be a vast improvement
- and last a long time. Hope these comments help. I wanted to also mention that our supplier has notified
- me that we expect a price increase for orders submitted on or after Monday, February 23rd. With that
- in mind, our goal is to be able to move ahead quickly after the commission hearing on February 12th
- with the goal of getting paperwork, partial payment, et cetera, completed no later than February 19th.
- Please pass along any further questions that you have for the commission. I will... run through. Some
- images that we have of the existing windows. So this proposal calls for
- Vinyl replacement windows double hung to match the size and display of mountains, but they would use
- an interior grid rather than true or simulated divided glass.
- Staff recommends the conditional approval of COA 2604 for the replacement of windows and the repair
- or in-kind replacement of wood sills, rather than covering them with another material. The Code of Federal
- Regulations, CFR 36, Part 68, acknowledges that there are some circumstances in which economic and technical
- feasibility of a project will have to be taken into account when interpreting the Secretary of Interior's
- standards.
- The criteria for this judgment include the necessity of a project and the demonstration of a substantial
- cost burden. Churches and religious buildings are one type of property to which these considerations
- are most often applied because they are often large, non-income producing properties that pose practical
- and financial challenges during restoration. In this case, not all of the windows for which replacement
- has been proposed are in the same state of disrepair.
- but windows along the south elevation in particular show extensive rot, broken panes, damaged mountains
- and damage from the elements. There are 39 windows for which replacement is proposed and the estimates
- provided by the energy audit give a range of $750 to $2,000 per window with simulated, sorry, interior
- divided lights.
- The city of Bloomington Seal grant can cover some of this cost, but cannot cover full window repair
- or replacement. While Indiana Landmarks provides for other applicable grants, which may be able to cover
- the cost of more faithful replacements, staff cannot speculate on their availability. Storm windows
- are generally a cheaper option for thermal insulation, provided that they can be built to a size that
- fits. But the audit provided demonstrates that the deterioration of the windows beneath still remains an issue.
- While some of these windows on the second story are less visible, all of the first floor windows are
- double hung and close to the sidewalk. Obscured glass is already used on these ground floor windows.
- The divided lights, size, and shapes of these windows are also important to finding features of the
- building, and so replacement materials should seek to imitate the appearance as closely as possible.
- Considering the extent of deterioration, replacement may be appropriate at this point. The Secretary
- of the Interior Guidelines
- do not recommend obscuring wood details underneath metal or other materials, not historically part of
- the building. While some sills may need mitigation, repair or replacement would be a preferable option
- that would not alter the appearance of the wood sills and trim and would avoid further complications
- resulting from the capture of moisture underneath aluminum sheathing. At this point, I'd like to ask
- if the petitioners have anything that they would like to add.
- that looks very similar, is much more energy efficient, and has minimal maintenance issues along the
- way. That's where we are with the final windows and the proposed metals trial. Thank you. Thank you
- very much. Are there any public comments?
- Does anybody wish to speak on this COA, both in the room or online? Hearing none, let's go ahead and
- do Commissioner comments. Ernesto, you want to start off? I don't have comments on this. There are questions.
- Questions. Do you have questions? No, not at this point. Duncan, do you have questions? So is this proposing to
- Not just to do the sash, but the whole window unit. Is that right? That's right. And does that replacement
- unit include the sill? As I understand it, this is a standard replacement where they pull the existing
- window out, but leave the frame of the existing window in place and insert the new window in.
- and then caulk it inside and out to make use of the existing wood frame. So the replacement unit does
- not include the frame. Right. And I think that you're proposing to clad that frame and seal in aluminum.
- Is that correct? That's correct.
- Has there been a, other than the sealed report, has there been an evaluation of the windows one by one
- to grade their condition? Well, we've had two proposed installers come and inspect and make proposals
- for replacing them.
- I think we have looked at it from the point of view of believing some. When we started, we said maybe
- we could only afford to do the very worst ones, which are on the south side of the building. Somehow
- the weather is much more effective there. But all of the windows, from the energy efficiency point of
- view, all the windows are, of course, 100-year-old windows. They're not nearly as energy tight as we'd
- like to have.
- As we got into the project and thinking about it, we aimed to replace the wall if we're possibly going.
- The installers that we talked to, of course, they are industry standard nowadays. It's this sort of
- vinyl windows with the multiple panes and so forth. So that's what they're aiming to be.
- They are tied then, and energy and efficiency will answer those questions. So that's the priority from
- that point of view. I apologize to you. That's all the questions I have. Jeff, do you have any questions?
- No questions. Daniel? John? No questions. Karen? No questions. I have a couple of questions. For the
- petitioner, did you reach out to Indiana Landmarks about any of their grant-making opportunities?
- particularly the Black Heritage Preservation Program, or the Sacred Places Indiana programs.
- We have not yet. No, it holds a little bit. Now, where I'm at, my impression was they have fairly tight
- headlines that we were thinking to approach them about subsequent projects. We did not, at this time,
- didn't get deep enough into what their possibilities are. Were wood windows ever?
- considered for replacements? Pardon me? Would the material? No? OK. Thank you. Jack, do you have any
- questions? I wanted to question the commissioners. I'm not very familiar with vinyl windows, but in
- terms of life expectancy versus a metal clad or
- vinyl clad window, what is your take on them? Do they have good life? Do they provide the insulation
- levels that are purported? I'd like to hear. The most efficient window combination is wood body, painted
- wood body with a double pane or single pane with a single pane glazed
- storm window. That's the most efficient. If you go to a double pane window, a wood window that is clad
- with aluminum is the next best in terms of efficiency. Vital is low on the list for efficiency, but
- as the petitioners mentioned, well-fitted windows are really more of an issue than anything. It's air
- infiltration that is the issue.
- And windows and doors are not where most heat is lost. It's through the roof. So when I looked at the
- seal report, for instance, the first thing I would do is super insulate the roof because that's probably
- where they're losing most of their heat. But windows are graded and have been, you know, by quality
- and material. Wood windows are still the best insulator, single or double glazed.
- Thank you. Do you have any other questions? I don't get to ask the question, and I'll ask it again.
- Apparently, there was not a one-on-one, one-by-one window determination. It was a gross determination
- of all windows. So no one went through and looked at each window and said, this one can be done, this
- one cannot be done. Is that the case?
- That's true. That's true. We did go around the building one by one, looking at all the buildings in
- succession, but we did not make an attempt to... And we did also say which ones are the worst.
- And as I said, at one point, we thought we'll just put the most south side windows, which are definitely
- by far the worst. But as we looked one by one,
- was that it was better to do everything at once, if you could. Thank you. No more questions. All right.
- At this point, I'll entertain a motion from the commissioners on this COA. So although we cannot move,
- we approve it so that we can go to the next step. Is that right? I'm trying to remember with the new
- system. So yes, you would make a motion.
- And then we would make comments based on that motion. I'd move we approve COA 26-04. Is there a second?
- I'll second it. All right. All right. Let's discuss it. Ernesto? Yeah. I agree with the recommendations
- from staff. But I do think that they should probably look into Indiana landmarks
- because it's a good resource for getting more grants and being able to do this properly. So I don't
- know how to deal with that. Duncan, do you have comments? Yeah, I think that's the issue. By preservation
- standards, what you would normally do would be to grade every window. Usually we make a sheet that
- replicates what the window looks like, grade the quality of the glass, the quality of the frame, the
- quality of the sash, and then evaluate the work based on that need. I'm not arguing that they're not
- all, they don't all need something. They may, they may. I haven't looked at it myself, but that would
- be a normal procedure. And then to try to get the highest quality window possible would be the next
- best option, in which case I think that would be a clad wood window with either single glazed or double
- glazed with a storm window. But I acknowledge that that's the more expensive route to take. If you took
- that route, let's just say there were how many other 39 windows and 15 of them were absolutely needed
- to be replaced right now. There's no economic merit in replacing them with
- the cheapest window available or the window that won't last the longest or that is the least energy
- efficient in the long run. But as Noah mentioned in his recommendation, and I think that's why you're
- agreeing with it, there's economic hardship here probably. I mean, if they couldn't, if the church hasn't
- been able to maintain them, then they're not probably gonna have a pot of money to replace them with
- the highest quality window going.
- my strategy, my strategy would be to do the worst ones first, at the same time that they're taking care
- of the other energy needs, which I think take priority, frankly, judging from the SEAL report. So it's
- not a matter of disagreeing with NOAA or disagreeing with what the issues and the economic issues here
- about what's the best strategy for getting the best product. And I think
- replacing them as needed with maybe a higher quality product than a vinyl window would be a more sound,
- long-term, more economic route to take. And just to comment on vinyl windows in general, there are lots
- of different grades of them. They don't last anywhere near as long as wood windows that are maintained.
- But in this case, maintenance is as big an issue as purchase.
- So I would get the most maintenance-free window I could get with the most efficiency, and that would
- be a wood window that's clad with aluminum. It doesn't have to be painted on the outside. That's
- a complicated answer, but it's a complicated problem, and I totally sympathize with the church and their
- congregation, because it's a pressing issue,
- money on the one hand and quality on the other and the long-term benefit as a third consideration.
- All right, Jeff, do you have any comments? So my comments would echo what Duncan said. Looking at the
- windows on what's needed right now and thinking about long-term, even though maybe the cost right now
- might be prohibited to do them all, I think
- long-term for a struggling church like this is that you deal with what you have to deal with. And I
- also agree with this. Windows are great, but they're not the most important thing. That's it. No, I
- think mine's already been said. No comments.
- Could you elaborate a little or repeat what you said about your conditional is about the sills? Right.
- Yeah. Actually, at this point, that is something I'd like to, with your permission, chair, ask Duncan
- about. Sure. Sure. So understanding that those sills and surrounds would be left in, obviously, what's
- recommended in the guidelines for the rehabilitation of historic properties is that
- you know, that would not be covered up or obscured. Do you think for the sake of the longevity of these
- windows that there would be a reason to unconditionally approve this application as is if there was,
- say, an agreement on my recommendation about replacing the windows themselves? Unconditionally.
- I don't want to force your hand with the question, I guess. Well, ask it another way. I'm not sure I
- understand. Do you think that installing cladding on the windows arounds? The existing windows? Yeah,
- do you think that would be problematic to approve? Yeah, probably. In the long run, it probably will
- be because they tend to sweat, and then the wood rots from underneath. I would, I think,
- What I've done in the past is when the frames are meant to stay and are intended to stay, which they
- are in this case, is to scrape and repaint the frames with a really high quality paint and put in a
- pressure treated sill and paint it after a year. You have to let it dry first. Pressure treated sills
- last a long, long, long time. And good paint will also.
- And it's probably just as cheap to paint the frames, not the sash, as it is to clad them. That would
- be my guess. And it would look better. But it's a maintenance issue, because you have to keep painting
- them. I mean, every 10 years, probably, you would have to paint them. But I think, again, in the long
- term, it saves the original material. And if you clad them, you
- probably won't save it for more than 10 years. It's a really complicated issue. That's why windows are
- always such a pain, because there are just a lot of choices, and money is not getting any cheaper. It's
- almost to the point where taking them out and completely repairing them, whatever they need, and putting
- them back is just about as cheap as buying a new good quality window.
- A new wood clad window roughly this size, a solid wood window with divided lights between the panes
- and aluminum cladding, they start at about 1,300 and they go up. So take it times 39 and you see where
- you're at. Whereas repair can be anything from 250 to 500 a window.
- It's really a conundrum when you got 39 windows. On the showers building, we had to do a window survey
- for over 300 windows. We had to survey every one of them and make recommendations for each one. And
- the National Park Service allowed them to replace them all because the overall deterioration was greater
- than 60%. So the standard is sliding. Those recommendations pretty much meet secretary's standards,
- I would say.
- I don't have any other comments. Do you have comments? Yes, that's why I asked the question about haunted
- windows, to find out quality and time, how long they'll last and what they'll do for. And it seems they're
- the lowest quality, I agree. My opinion is overall better for the church to replace progressively, not once.
- I think that's a good idea. It allows them to build a budget in between replacements, also to look at
- each window individually and decide what to do with it. I'm a little worried about replacing everything
- at one time. It's a cost saving, and I understand why you would want to grab at it.
- because I'm sure they're worried about them. But I think overall, the better way to do it is to do it
- progressively window by window or group by group rather than doing everything one and doing a higher
- quality clad window. That's my opinion. I will add that approaching Indiana Landmarks on the two levels
- that you mentioned, they have a very active African-American
- fund that they're really trying to build. And so I think they would really be welcoming to a request.
- I do want to have one other comment here. The Black Heritage Preservation Program, the grants range
- from $500,000 to $30,000. And then the sacred spaces programs, their grants go from $25,000 to $500,000.
- So there's money out there that is available for the church to use to preserve this building, giving its
- rating no matter the outcome I think of what we do here they need to contact Indiana Landmarks and see
- if they can get into one of these programs to help make sure that we keep Bethel there. They also provide
- can provide technical assistance and they will not fund inappropriate windows. I'll tell you that. And
- I might add that the windows are such a defining
- character defining feature of this gorgeous building that you'd have a good case, I would think. I would
- think so too. Okay, I think that brings us to the end of our discussion, so it comes time to vote. Do
- we have public comment? Yeah. We already did. I asked for comment earlier, but. Oh, go ahead. Oh, they
- didn't hear it? Okay. So we go back though? Yeah.
- I'm Valerie Grimm, so I'm a member of the Trustee and Student Board. So there are a couple of things
- that I'd like to provide, at least what I think is a point of clarification. And that is the question
- about looking at the windows one by one. We did. That's how we got to the conclusion that we reached.
- We went to each window, inside and outside.
- What's happening on the inside is not evident from the outside. From the inside underneath, which is
- why we are talking about replacing the whole window and getting a new window that fits into the frame,
- is that over the years, the water has come in and has caused the wood to rot. And so in some areas,
- the entire bottom area just has to be replaced, rebuilt, whatever language you want to use.
- So we did go window by window with two to three different people and among ourselves to look at the
- condition of the window. There were a couple we thought we could say, but then we went inside and saw
- the wreckage that termites or something had done, which requires us to totally replace that particular
- window. So I just wanted to be clear, this was not just
- look at it and think it was a detailed estimation and exploration of what's happening inside and outside
- the church as far as those windows are concerned. So another thing is I know that the conversation about
- grants is happening.
- Our church is small, so that's the reason why I crossed between a student and a trustee board. And I'm
- talking about a lot of people, and the few people we have, everybody got full-time jobs. So we did initiate
- a campaign based on the number of years we've been here, 155. And so we have funds to move forward and
- to do the kind of work that we have, we think is good work.
- that will last some time. I might not be here for the next installment, but at least what we have come
- up with I think will last a long time. And so we have money to move forward. And it's not that we won't
- try to get the landmark money, but we need that for some other stuff. That the church is 155 years old,
- it got some basement issue that we'll probably be coming back to you again for.
- So I'd just like to say that we've been working on this two years and have a good sense of what we think
- work. We've talked to three different companies that have given us different ways to think about it.
- And that's where we are. Excellent. Thank you very much for your comments. Appreciate that. Yes, and
- I'm Nancy Cross Harris. Also, just like she said, I'm trusting in the church a long time.
- Everything she said is correct. We had three different estimates come out, and not only just one time,
- but twice. So each one of them has been viewed and viewed and viewed over at least six times. And that's
- why we did come to that conclusion. They all need replacing. Except for the stained glass. We're not
- missing the stained glass. No, the stained glass. You can see the stain from here.
- Yeah, that's great. That's inside the sanctuary. But over the years, we have taken care of the basement
- and the sub-basement floors, trying to maintain them. But water just keeps gushing in, as she mentioned,
- rotting out wood and so forth. And it just ruins the floor. So that's all we're trying to do is maintain
- that and have everything be efficient. Thank you very much. Are there any other comments on this from
- the public?
- All right, we'll go ahead and call the roll. All right, we have a motion on the floor for COA 2604.
- Motion to approve. We'll go ahead and take a roll call vote. And is this for the conditional approval
- or for approval approval? Daniel, you moved for what? No asset, didn't you? I don't remember what I
- said. Yeah, it was a motion to step approval. Could you restate the condition? Sure. This would
- be conditional approval for the replacement of the windows
- but not for covering the surrounds. Is that what I had said previously? That's what I thought. I think
- your motion was for the conditional approval, yes. Yes. That's what I wanted to be, so that's what I
- said. That's what it was for. OK. So we'll go ahead and take a roll call vote. Jack Baker? No.
- John Butler? Yes.
- Ernesto Castaneda? Yes. Jeff Golden? No. Melanie Dusner? Abstain. Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hackard?
- Yes. Daniel Schlegel? Yes. All right. So that would be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 2 noes, and an abstention. So
- that motion passes. All right. Thank you very much for coming in, and thank you for your public comments.
- Appreciate it. All right.
- Can I have a quick clarification about what we just passed? Sure. This was OK to take the proposal we
- have and replace the windows, but to leave the wood frames uncovered and deal with that later or something.
- Right. And then the wood frames, they could be repainted or replaced in kind without necessarily needing
- approval from the commission.
- The approval is not given for covering them in aluminum. And so I would say let's follow up with Noah
- after this. Yeah. And we can go through any sort of clarifications at that time. We can work that out.
- So next up on the agenda, we have COA 2607. Is the petitioner here for that? This is Petitioner Han Chong.
- Is the petitioner present online? All right, so we'll move that to the end of the agenda, and we'll
- cover that if they end up coming up at some point. So we'll move to COA 2608. Is the petitioner present?
- Ben Swanson? We have a Ben online. I'm going to ask him. Ben, are you the petitioner? I'm here. Yes,
- I'm here. Excellent. OK, Noah, can you do your report? Sure.
- This is the Application for Certificate of Appropriateness 2608 for 213 South Rogers Street. Will someone
- be able to close the door? Oh, open door, we can't. I'm sorry, we can't close the door. Please leave
- the door open. Mm-hmm. OK. Sorry. We have to leave the door open. OK. Because open door means open door.
- Yeah, we're very sorry.
- Okay, I'll just shout. Okay. 213 South Roger Street, the Frosted Food Building petitioner is Ben Swanson.
- The request here is for the reduction in height of industrial chimney to the lower tier and then capping
- it with a cement crown.
- 213 South Rogers is an individually listed historic property, a former factory building. It has served
- as an auto repair shop, sheet metal workshop, and refrigeration company slash slaughterhouse. It was
- designated in 1995 as part of a grant application. The building has a limestone facade with picture
- windows and a stepped parapet facing Rogers. Most of the building is brick with large metal gridded
- industrial windows.
- On the roof near the south facade stands a tall square brick chimney. The request from the applicant
- proposes a partial removal of the existing masonry chimney located on the roof of the building at 213
- South Rogers Street. The chimney is no longer actively in use and currently extends above the roof line.
- Visual inspection from the adjacent parking lot shows a clear transition in brick material
- approximately one-third of the way up the chimney indicating an earlier construction phase and a later
- addition above it. The proposal is to remove only the upper portion of the chimney down to this original
- brick transition, thereby retaining the historic base and preserving the original massing and appearance
- of the structure as viewed from the street. The purpose of the partial removal is twofold.
- safety and maintenance. The upper portion of the chimney is exposed to weather and presents long-term
- maintenance issues and safety concerns. Reducing the height of the chimney will lessen the structural
- risk while allowing the remaining historic masonry to be properly capped and stabilized. Secondly, for
- sustainability improvements, the reduced chimney height will significantly limit the shadow on the roof,
- which will be necessary to support a future solar energy installation.
- The proposed work aligns with the sustainability goals while minimizing the alteration of historic materials.
- No changes are proposed to the building's footprint or primary elevations or character defining features.
- Visible from the public right of way, the work represents a reversible minimal intervention that retains
- historic materials where feasible and ensures continued preservation and functional use of the building.
- All work will be performed by qualified masonry contractor using appropriate preservation techniques.
- The materials to be used include the retention of existing brick masonry, mortar repair, using a compound
- to match the existing mortar in composition, color, texture, and joint profile.
- a chimney cap, what's being proposed would be a concrete mortar crown with a two inch overhang. Um,
- while the two inch overhang was not generally a consistent practice in the early 19 hundreds, when the
- building was originally constructed, we are recommending the minor alteration as the overhang does help
- with the watershed and will help to preserve for a longer time. The original bricks, uh, that are almost
- impossible to come by at this time.
- This paired with tuck pointing will greatly aid preservation. Flashing, new flashing will be installed
- as needed at the roof interface to ensure proper waterproofing. Flashing materials will be durable,
- weather resistant, and minimally visible. Staff recommends the approval of COA 2608. The brake chimney
- is a small feature, but nonetheless, significance for
- I don't know how this typo entered here, but for... I'm gonna read it the way that makes sense, conveying
- the property's industrial history. The top two-thirds of the chimney are narrower, built with a different
- brick from the rest of the original structure. The higher tier was built before the 1990s renovation,
- but likely after the beer
- building's main period of significance, which is the early 1920s and 30s, possibly after the building
- became a meat processing plant in the early 1940s. I had some trouble finding older pictures of this
- building. There are aerials and maps that show the building materials and overall dimensions of the building.
- I haven't found anything that indicates the original chimney height. Does the petitioner have anything
- that he would like to add? No. I think that covers it, but I have to answer any questions. Thank you.
- Are there any public comments regarding the COA? Hearing none, Ernesto, do you have any questions? Duncan,
- questions?
- No, I will say that I led the renovation on this building. And it's on the National Register of Historic
- Places also. It was a federal tax credit project. And I consulted with the owner because he called me
- and asked me if I had any old pictures. But what I had were the pictures prior to the renovation, which
- was in the early 90s.
- And we determined that that extension chimney was added at a time when that chimney was needed to have
- its peak above the top of the domed roof by code, because they were using it to vent a furnace, we believe.
- And we put that canister on top of it. It's a filter for what was once
- hair salon that went in there as one of our tenants. So it's a way of filtering out the fumes from the
- hair salon. And it's not being used anymore either. So the original chimney is the short stub. So they
- would be returning it to the original configuration, which I think is fine. It's totally appropriate.
- No questions. Any questions? No, I think Noah covered everything great with his report.
- Any questions? No questions. John? No questions. Karen? No questions. I don't have any. Jack? No. No?
- All right. I did public comment earlier. So do I have a motion on this? I move for approval. I second.
- All right. Jack had the motion. Second, Nesto. All right. Let's talk about it. Ernesto, do you have
- any comments? No. I think Duncan summarized it. Thank you. Anything else, Duncan?
- Jeff? I want to support this. OK, Daniel? Melanie? Appreciate it, Duncan's context. John? Seems like
- a no-brainer on this one. Yes, it's good to have the full information here, background. Yeah, I support
- this. Jack? I think at one time, it might have made sense to have a very tall chimney there for meat
- processing, and depending on what kind of furnace they had, probably coal at one point, and if you get
- the smoke up,
- away out of people's faces could be pretty nasty. And there's just no need for it anymore. And taking
- the chimney down, I think, doesn't do anything to demean the character of the building. OK. All right.
- Thank you very much. I think we're ready to call the roll. The motion that's been seconded to approve
- COA 2608, roll call vote. Jack Baker? Yes. John Butler? Yes. Ernesto Castaneda? Yes. Jeff Golden? Yes.
- Melanie Dusner? Yes. Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hacker? Yes. Daniel Schlegel? Yes. Motion passes. Excellent.
- Thank you very much. All right. Next up, we have COA 2609. This is with the Chickering Rentals. Is the
- petitioner in the room or online? And what's your name? My name's Lindsay. Lindsay. OK. Thank you very
- much. I'm sorry about the white one, too. I'm so sorry for being late.
- It's okay. It's all right. All right. Noah, would you go ahead with your report? Certificate
- of Appropriateness 2609. This application is for 806 South Woodlawn Avenue. Oh, another typo. Well,
- it's just Elm Heights, not Maple Heights. The Elm Heights Historic District. Petitioner is Chickering
- Rentals. The request here is for retroactive approval of the replacement of wood windows
- with vinyl windows with an interior grid. I received a letter with a request, Dear Historic Preservation
- Department, I'm writing to formally request approval for the removal and replacement of existing windows
- at 806 South Woodlawn Avenue, a contributing property located in the Elm Heights Historic District.
- We fully recognize the architectural and historic significance of the Elm Heights neighborhood and appreciate
- the Historic Preservation Department's role in protecting its character.
- This proposal has been carefully developed to balance historic preservation with responsible stewardship,
- long-term building preservation, and modern performance needs. Existing conditions. The existing windows
- of the property are original or early generation units that have deteriorated significantly over time.
- Current conditions allow
- include air and water infiltration, failing glazing, compromised weather seals, and difficulty opening
- and closing. In several locations, these deficiencies contribute to moisture intrusion, interior finish
- deterioration, and reduced energy efficiency. While the existing windows have been maintained where
- possible, their condition has reached a point where continued repair is no longer a sustainable or effective
- long-term solution.
- scope of work. We are, we propose replacing the existing windows with new historically compatible windows
- designed to closely match the original window profiles, proportions and configuration as viewed from
- the public right of way. The proposed replacements will maintain the appropriate sash division, muntin
- patterns and overall scale consistent with architectural character of Elm Heights houses.
- The intent is to preserve the exterior appearance of the structure while significantly improving its
- performance and longevity. Benefits of the proposed window replacement, long-term preservation of the
- structure. Modern windows provide superior protection against moisture intrusion, a primary contributor
- to rot and structural deterioration in historic homes. Improving ceiling will protect original framing,
- trim, plaster, and interior finishes.
- supporting the long-term preservation of the building. Energy efficiency and environmental responsibility.
- New windows will substantially improve the thermal performance by reducing heat loss in the winter,
- heat gain in the summer. This reduces the overall energy consumption, lowers utility demand, and supports
- sustainability goals without altering the historic appearance of the home. Improved safety and code
- compliance. Many existing windows are difficult to operate due to age, paint buildup,
- or warped components. New windows will improve the ease of operation, ensure reliable emergency egress,
- and enhance occupant safety while maintaining appropriate historic proportions. Reducing ongoing maintenance,
- replacement windows significantly reduce the need for frequent re-glazing, repainting, and repairs.
- This allows maintenance resources to be directed toward other preservation efforts, including continued
- investment in the historic fabric of the home.
- preservation of Elm Heights visual character. The proposed windows are selected specifically to replicate
- the historic appearance of the originals. From the street, the visual change will be minimal preserving
- the established character and rhythm of the Elm Heights Historic District. Commitment to collaboration,
- we're committed to working closely with the Historic Preservation Department throughout this process.
- We are happy to provide window specifications, drawings, photographs, product samples, or any other materials
- required to support this request and ensure compliance with the Elm Heights Historic District standards.
- Thank you for your time and consideration. We appreciate this department's guidance and look forward
- to working collaboratively to preserve this property in a manner that respects both its historic significance
- and future viability. Sincerely, Lindsey Thompson, Shickering Rentals. I'll show you these, as you can see here,
- are images of the existing windows, I believe from 2023, showing go find more online linked to the meeting
- packet, but some examples of interior and exterior condition. You can see here the replacement windows,
- interior and exterior.
- Staff does not recommend the approval of COA 2609. The Elm Heights Historic District guidelines allow
- the replacement of windows in the condition that they cannot be repaired. In 2025, the Bloomington Historic
- Preservation Commission did approve, in a divided vote, the replacement of badly warped one over one
- windows in a property in the Elm Heights Historic District with clad aluminum replacements, following
- the argument that the difference would not be visible.
- The replacement windows installed at 806 South Woodlawn replicate the original pattern of muntins, although
- the visual difference between simulated dividing lights and interior grids adds another design factor
- to consider. As a retroactive COA proposed in response to a notice of violation, the proposal asks for
- approval of work conducted without an application. Last year, the serving Historic Preservation Commission
- chair and city staff were invited
- to visit another property owned by the applicant in the Elm Heights Historic District to consider potential
- window replacement. After an inspection, it was determined that the existing windows could be repaired
- and alternative means of insulating the existing windows, including weather stripping or the installation
- of storm windows or cellular shades, were not outside the bounds of consideration. It is unknown whether
- this visit took place before or after the replacement of windows at 806 South Woodlawn.
- While the windows at 806 South of Woodlawn were likely close to 90 years old, it is not clear that they
- were inoperable or unrepairable. It is also not clear that other thermal efficiency measures could not
- have been considered prior. Images uploaded to Zillow and Realtor.com between the time that the property
- was purchased in January 2024 and the updated Zillow information following interior and exterior work
- on the property uploaded in January 2026
- did not seem to show that the windows are in poor condition, although it can be difficult to tell the
- extent to which the frames may be warped or glazing and seals in need of repair. Considering
- these circumstances, staff recommends that the windows be replaced with either the originals or wood
- windows matching the sizing configuration. Does the petitioner have anything that she would like to
- add at this point?
- I know that it's very easy to look at landlords or rental companies and see them as faceless people,
- but yeah, I have a very deep love of Elm Heights and very much loved living there. I grew up in Brown
- County and my father and my father-in-law are both contractors, so I in no way shape or form do not
- honor what you're doing here and honor preservation. However, I live in a house that currently has historic
- windows and during this, that also has spray foam insulated attic space. And during this last cold snap,
- we were running our fireplace during most of the
- the time when we were in our living room because it was so cold due to the single pane windows. I do
- want to address the fact that we bought a lot of properties. The homeowner, I am just the kind of property
- manager, bought a lot of properties at the same time and we remodeled them very quickly during that
- time. We were not as aware as we are now of the historic guidelines. So I do apologize.
- We were in here about a year and a half ago for a door, and it was replaced about the same time as the
- window. So it's all, once again, especially now that I'm living in the neighborhood and I'm becoming
- more aware of the rules. So I just want to let everybody know that these were not rules that we knew
- about that we just stamped on or trampled on. We are learning and have learned more as we bought in
- the neighborhood.
- All I'm asking is that I do know that currently the Elm Heights neighborhood is rewriting their bylaws
- for the neighborhood and I'd like to see if there's any way to have a variance of some sort to see where
- these new bylaws come and then we could abide by those because I know that windows and doors have been
- a big conversation in the neighborhood.
- Are there any public comments regarding this certificate? Please state your name. Go ahead. Jenny Southern.
- I serve on the committee in the Elm Heights Historic District. Haven't met some of the new commissioners.
- Yeah, I was actually in the front yard of this house, knew the previous owner 12 years ago. He had lived
- in Colonial Williamsburg before that and meticulously
- cared for and restored this house. So I can say at the time that I was in it 12 years ago, they were
- working great. They were doing well. I didn't see any sign from the outside that the glazing was coming
- out at all. It looked fine. I can't swear up and down because I haven't been there this year. It would
- have been nice to get into a application that was before all this.
- It also had well-fitting, expensive storm windows on it. And I'll say that. That's the other picture.
- That's the original picture. That's with storm windows on it. You can tell how well they were fitted,
- and they were very nice. So that's all I've got to say, other than if anybody has any questions about
- the guidelines or something. There's nothing in our guidelines that says at this time,
- that you can replace them if they're in good shape. It's written several times in there that
- sustainability-wise, we believe these are more sustainable. We believe the originals are more affordable,
- as long as you have storms on them, because they have an R value of 2. New windows have an R value of
- 2.5. You get the brand new ones, the brand new storms, they also have an R value of 2.5, because they
- have a U coating on them that helps transmit less cold
- So, you're going by the guidelines we have now. They're totally not okay. We don't have anything against
- their grid pattern. That's what the grid pattern was. That's the proportions they were. That's the old
- ones, you can tell. That's the red door. Yeah, that's new ones. I'm not sure.
- There's other little changes there. I'm not going to mention that we're also done. But the new guidelines
- we're writing will at least, if they do allow new windows, they will at least have exterior mutton patterns
- on them. We are unconcerned about your interior mutton pattern because you can't see them except for
- inside. And we don't feel like we should be reviewing the inside of people's houses.
- And it looks weird from the inside as far as I'm concerned, but that's up to the homeowner. However,
- the exterior, the muntin pattern does matter. I'm sorry, I hope everybody knows what a muntin pattern
- is. Muntins, okay. So we want not the little skinny, strappy, white, vinyl ones or anything like that,
- real wood. Okay? So any questions? No? Thank you. All right. Are there any other public comments?
- All right, we'll go to Commissioner Questions or Nesta. Yes, I have a question for Steph. Yes. I just
- want to understand this. The windows that are there now, they were installed without permission from
- the commission? Yes. That's all I have. Thank you. Duncan, do you have any questions? No. No? Jeff,
- questions? Daniel? Melody? No. John? How close is
- the rewriting of the rules. How's that coming along? Is this something that's going to happen soon,
- or is it going to happen in a year? Are we days away from this, and we could postpone it once, or is
- this long term? That's my question. Honestly, I've been attending the meetings, and I have no idea.
- I don't think it's going to be, say, within a month or two.
- Karen? No questions. My questions have to do with the windows that were replaced. What sort of inspection
- or evaluation was done on those windows before they were taken out? That was very much just a personal
- decision. Ah, OK. All right, that answered my question. Jack, do you have questions? I'll address this
- to Noah. Chickering has had dealings with
- HPC before, have they not? Yes. Do we go back a couple of years, or do you have any off the top here?
- When's the last time we may have talked with them? So there's a couple of instances that came up in
- this meeting. One was there was a application in 2025 to replace windows on another house in the Elmites
- Historic District.
- submitted sort of speculatively. Sam DeSaller, who was chair at the time, and myself both checked out
- the property, and it didn't look like the windows there met the threshold in the district guidelines
- for replacement. So that application was withdrawn. Prior to that, there was another retroactive COA
- applied for.
- In a case, I think somewhat similar to this one, as Lindsay had pointed out, where a door had been replaced
- without an application. That was in 2024. The COA is good for two years. And a proposed custom door
- was voted on by the commission as part of a resolution
- to that NOV. Thank you, Noah. To our petitioner, where are the old windows now? Are they available?
- Actually, we're hoping. We've got our maintenance man, who does a lot of our work for us, is currently
- sick with emphysema. And so unfortunately, he's in the hospital, so we're not. But he's a notorious
- porter, so we are hoping that potentially we
- cannot speak to that 100% yet. But if I know him and his boarding tendencies, it's a possibility that
- we have them in a board somewhere. Thank you. That's all I have. All right. We already did public comments,
- so I'll take a motion on this. I will move to deny.
- I'm just making sure you had the- Yes. Thank you. All right. Let's have a discussion then. Ernesto,
- do you have any comments? I really don't know what else to say other than I support the staff recommendation.
- That's all I have.
- It's always worse when somebody's done something and then asks you to approve it after it's over. I'll
- just say frankly, I don't think this particular company has a very good track record in obeying historic
- preservation or observing historic preservation districts. And it seems to me that they would have learned
- their lesson by now.
- I think this is a case of ask forgiveness later, frankly. That's just a judgment that's a personal one.
- The windows themselves are inappropriate. The other ones were original fabric, which is an important
- consideration in preservation. And they had storm windows on them, so they've actually made the house
- less efficient by doing this. There's no excuse for it, in my opinion. Jeremy, can I get a vote?
- We are basing our decision. You are basing your decision on whether it meets the standard and the guidelines
- for the neighborhood. So I think let's stick to whether you agree if it meets them or not. Well, we're
- making decisions based on the secretary's standards as well as the guidelines. I beg to differ. So it's
- a little more complicated than that. And I'm sorry if I spoke inappropriately in your opinion, but this
- lesson needs to be said. And I'm a commissioner, and I have the authority to say it.
- The difficulty I have with this is that Elm Heights is in the middle of sort of rethinking how they're
- going to do their rules. And right now they're debating whether they're going to be an all wood neighborhood,
- or a metal neighborhood, or a vinyl neighborhood.
- And so I think that makes this a more difficult vote. I think the rules as they stand, it's pretty clear.
- At the same time, this is a real problem. And I think that maybe the company has let down their neighbors
- by skipping the whole approval step. And I think that that's something we should consider.
- But I wouldn't want to single out any particular company as not being pro preservation, because I think
- Chickering has a fairly big stable of houses that they've taken a decent care of. So that's my comment.
- Thank you, John. Karen? Well, this happened
- a while ago and has just come to our attention this way. The guidelines were in place. They're currently
- in place. They'll be in place for a while, and then we have to approve them. Who knows? We can't move
- the clock around. And from the photographs,
- we have from the Google photographs, we don't see evidence of a need or deterioration. So I think the
- only thing to do here is to deny it. I think based off of what we have in the application, there was
- not any sort of evaluation of what the old windows were. So we can't evaluate if they were
- rotting or not, and warranted replacement based on either the neighborhood guidelines or the Secretary
- of Interior's guidelines. So as a result, I think we would need to deny it. Well, I have to say we have
- a company that has not paid attention to guidelines and has gone ahead and done this sort of replacement
- without permission before.
- I think that needs to be said. They should learn the lesson. But reading from the guidelines, Elm Heights,
- if original windows, doors, or hardware can be restored and reused, they should not be replaced. And
- then there are other elements here talking about character defining features. We'll be talking about
- mountains and such, whether they're real or not. It appears that the windows might not meet standards.
- And we've already talked about vinyl windows being
- the least cost, but the least trustworthy and reliable alternative. So I think I have no more comments
- other than that. Thank you very much. All right, we already did a public comment on this, so I think
- we're ready to go ahead for the vote. OK, there's a motion to deny. COA 2609, that's been moved and
- seconded. We'll take a roll call vote.
- A yes vote would be to deny. Jack Baker? Yes. John Butler? Yes. Ernesto Castaneda? Yes. Melanie Duthner?
- Yes. Jeff Golden? I'm staying. Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hackard? Yes. Daniel Schlegel? Yes. Motion to
- deny passes. Thank you all very much. Thank you. No, I think we'll need to be
- reach back out to them at some point. There's no follow up. Thank you for your time. Thank you.
- Thank you. All right. Next up, we have COA 2610. Is the petitioner present for this? Yeah. Excellent.
- No? Go ahead. All right. COA 2610. The address here is 211 East 15th Street in the Garden Hill Historic District.
- Petitioner is Rishav Sharma. This is a non-contributing gable front, minimal traditional house. Built
- in the 1920s or 30s, 211 East 15th Street is a non-contributing property in the Garden Hill Historic
- District. The one-story house has a minimal design and has a number of additions to the west rear and
- a connection to a mid-century limestone garage. This request proposes a rear addition to the northwest
- corner of the building
- bringing the rear of the house in line with the north end of the garage, as you can see in the floor
- plan here. Ganesh Properties LLC proposes a rear addition, adding one bedroom and two bathrooms. The
- two bathrooms, each approximately 11 by 6 feet, are located adjacent to each other. One will be attached
- to an existing bedroom, the other to the new bedroom. After consultation with our contractor, David Thomas,
- The design extends from the existing garage gable roof to cover the new construction. No new roof form
- pitch or ridge height is required. Our intent is to preserve the continuity of roof form and massing
- consistent with the existing structure. Proposed exterior openings include a one two by two foot window
- in each bathroom.
- two three by two foot windows on the west wall of the new bedroom, one three by two foot window on the
- north wall of the new bedroom, one standard 36 inch door and a three foot wide hallway. The construction
- may occur in two phases depending on tenant coordination with phase one consisting of the bathroom addition
- attached to the existing bedroom and phase two potentially consisting of the new bedroom and second bathroom.
- Proposed materials include exterior siding to match the existing white siding, concrete block foundation
- consistent with existing construction, asphalt shingles to match the existing roofing, and standard
- residential windows and exterior door with a storm door. Staff recommends the approval of COA 2610.
- The proposed addition to 211 East 15th Street
- is largely hidden from the street behind a side addition and garage. The applicant proposes to use materials
- found elsewhere on the house and the design presented includes a visible cement block foundation and
- fenestration pattern similar to those found on this building and on others in this surrounding neighborhood.
- Note that the east elevation pictured in the files faces west and also this appears to be mirrored
- Um, which if you go back to the site plan here, you'll notice that this addition will be located in
- the, uh, Northwest corner of the existing structure. Does the petitioner have anything that he would
- like to add? That's what I would say is that, um, which is not relevant to anything in this construction.
- 1991, I bought this house, so I'm emotionally attached to this house.
- Each time I go around my other rentals, I definitely make sure that I go around this house. Now that's
- the emotional part of it. It has nothing to do with what we proposed. I have appeared in the committee
- like this about 25 years ago. There were only five people then. And it was not pertaining to this house.
- It was my other rental house. We were changing the window. So now going back to this house,
- is whatever the integrity of the house is, I will maintain it. Whatever I can do to make sure that the
- tenants, future tenants, and current tenants are comfortable with the construction, I will do that.
- All these 35 years I've been living in Bloomington for 40 years, 35 years I've been a rental business
- and landlord.
- I went to school here. I graduated from Indiana University. I studied chemistry, but it has nothing
- to do with chemistry. So I changed my profession. The bottom line is this, that I'll make sure, I'm
- going to say it again, that I will maintain the integrity of the house. And I will do anything in my
- power to, again, make sure that I maintain good relations with the department
- with the city, which I have done it over 35 years. No one has ever filed a complaint against my rental
- properties. And I have never taken anybody to the court. So I have a very good standing in the community.
- I would request you to approve it. And if it is, then I will be very grateful to you. Thank you very
- much. Thank you.
- Are there any public comments on the COA, both in the room or online? Oh, I did receive neighborhood
- comment. Yeah. They did not state any objection to the proposed addition. Ernesto, do you have any questions?
- I do not, thank you. Duncan, questions? No questions. Jeff? No questions. Daniel? No. Melody? No. No.
- John? No. No. Questions?
- I'll entertain a motion. Motion to approve. Seconded. John, seconded. No, Jeff. Thank you, Jeff.
- All right, comments. Ernesto, any comments? Duncan? I mean, the building, as noted, has been significantly
- changed over the years. Actually, the alteration that he's proposing is pretty much in keeping with
- the previous ones.
- And they've been well done, I think. And it's a non-contributing house in a district, so I wouldn't
- be concerned about it. Yeah, no comment. Daniel? Melody? No. John? I really like how this is all tucked
- around the back of the building. I think it's a very nice scale for your neighbors. You're not taking
- away their light, and you're not intruding on their space. So I think this is a very good project.
- Thank you. Karen? Yes, I agree.
- It's really not would be hardly visible from the street at all. Yeah, I agree with Karen and Duncan's
- comments. I agree with Commissioner Comments. Excellent. All right. I think we're ready to vote. OK.
- And this will be on COA 26-10, motion to approve. Roll call vote. Jack Baker? Yes. John Butler? Yes.
- Ernesto Castaneda? Yes. Melanie Dusner? Yes. Jeff Golden? Yes.
- Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hacker? Yes. Daniel Schlegel? Yes. Motion passes. Great. Thank you. All right.
- Next up, we have a demolition delay, 2602. We have one demolition delay proposed this evening for 503
- North Roger Street. Petitioner is Ernest G.
- What was that? Just hold on a second. Also, I realize there's one COA from earlier tonight where the
- petitioner wasn't present. Do we want to check and see if he might be online now? We can do that after
- the DD. We already started. OK. Well, replies, can we close out that little window? Because it's blocking
- the number of the requests every time during the hour. The thing up there that says OK. It says OK?
- Yeah. Thank you for saying something.
- My apologies. Thank you for saying something. All right, no, go ahead. I'm sorry, this is now 503 North
- Roger Street. This is 614 North Grant. Petitioners are ESG. Petition is for full demolition. 614 North
- Grant has a severely altered one-story gable front house with a pedimented porch on the south half of
- the front elevation facing
- east to Grant Street, or is it west? Facing west, that's what I thought. Okay, it says east,
- that's not right. Most of the original exterior materials have been replaced, including in 2026, the
- three door columns and short wood railing on the front porch. Aside from the house's overall form and
- stone foundation, little remains of its original appearance.
- The building is fronted by a herringbone brick sidewalk. Built between 1910 and 1914, 614 North Grant
- was first bought by Washington and Julia Voss. The couple lived in the house until 1930, shortly after
- Washington's death. Born in Kentucky in 1848, Washington Voss served as a young teenager in the First
- Kentucky Union Cavalry during the Civil War. During his time in Bloomington, he frequently switched jobs
- between clothing salesman, barber, assessor, and gardener. Julia rented the house to several couples
- prior to selling it in 1936 to Blanche and Francis Letellier. Blanche worked as a clerk in various shops,
- and Francis was a stone carver employed by a local mill. In 1957, he found new employment as a machine
- inspector at the RCA radio TV plant. After Francis' death in 1960,
- Blanche ran the home, an at-home nursery for the next two years. Since Blanche sold the house in 1962,
- it has served as a rental mostly for Indiana University students. From 1968 through 72, this was the
- residence of Paul Cota, a PhD student in library science who would go on to serve as the rare book librarian
- at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.
- Staff recommends the release of demo delay 2602. Does the petitioner have anything that he would like
- to add? I do not. Thank you. All right. So public comments, anybody? Go ahead and state your name. My
- name is James Ford. I live a few blocks from this house. The house is obviously is not historically
- important in terms of the people who are living there and architecture.
- And I realize that the committee has only two options to either designate it historic or let it go.
- I have just a question. If the committee has any oversight over the sidewalk. I know it's a silly thing
- to look at. But that's the sidewalk. It's right across the street from another sidewalk that matches
- it. There's not many brick sidewalks left. And the house right across the street from this was recently,
- the last 10 years, redone.
- amazing, and it would be nice for this brick sidewalk to be retained on both sides of the street at
- this particular location. There are no more brick sidewalks on the west side of Grant or anywhere from
- West Grant all the way to campus, but there are a few just east of this, or sorry, just west of this.
- That's my only comment I would like you to consider. If you can,
- saving the sidewalk, if not saving it exactly the way it is, then asking the petitioner to carefully
- remove it, pile up the brick somewhere safe, do whatever they're going to do, and then put the sidewalk
- back, maybe replacing ones that can't be replaced, can't be reused, but have a herringbone brick sidewalk
- in that location. Having it there would be nice for the neighborhood as a whole. That's all I have to
- say. Thank you very much. Are there any other public comments?
- Yes, go. Amy Butler, I live in the area and walk by it often with my dog. And I agree that the sidewalk,
- it would be great if we could say that it would help the continuous look of the neighborhood. And there
- are miles and miles and miles of cement sidewalk. I understand that.
- Part of the planning process in the city is if you put in a new thing that they want you to set back
- the sidewalk, this is not on a main road. It's on a side street. And I don't think that any of that
- has ever been considered. But it would be really nice if we could say that that's OK. I own the property
- across the street, so I would recommend it. Oh, could you say what your name is, please? Oh, Brian Allen.
- Thank you. Yeah. And I would recommend to approve the demolition of this house.
- And yeah, and a comment about the sidewalks. Those sidewalks and the sidewalks around the house I own
- are in horrible condition. So I think they need to be fixed, first of all, or just paved with regular
- cement. OK, thank you. Are there any other comments in the room or online? Something online?
- There is an online question. Excellent. All right. Person who wants to make a comment, go ahead. Yeah,
- hi. I know the previous person who spoke said they own a house across the street. I own the two houses
- directly across the street. One of them is at 401 East Cottage Grove. The other house is at 705 North
- Grant Street.
- And one question I had was, I think the petitioner's current plan, because he's removing a lot of trees,
- is to place a lot of trees in the sidewalk. And I was curious if they preserved the sidewalk where the
- trees are going to go. Because it looked like the original plan was placing a lot of trees in the sidewalk.
- I don't know if that falls in your purview at all. That was my question.
- If this demolition delay is released for clarification, that would also release for a year the right
- to remove the sidewalk or replace it. My understanding hearing from the planning department is if something
- new were to be built at this location, in order to bring the site into compliance with current code,
- they would have to replace the sidewalk. And so part of that would involve
- you know, installing, I believe, a median between the sidewalk and the street in which those trees would
- be replaced, and then replacing the brick sidewalk with a concrete one. We have a believer here, too.
- Thank you for that. Well, we have a, I'm sorry, it was whispered to me. I don't want to put you on the
- spot. Is that sort of a gist? Oh, yeah. Hold on. The person online, please hold on. The person online,
- please hold on. We have somebody in the room.
- Speaking. Larry. Go ahead. I'm not sure what you spoke with in planning, but typically, yes, that would
- be the case. Most road classifications do have a required tree plot. So when properties are redeveloped,
- a lot of the monolithic sidewalks or sidewalks adjacent to the street are going to be replaced.
- so that you can have adequate space to put the trees that protect the pedestrians from the car space.
- OK. All right. Thank you. I appreciate that. All right. I think we'll move on to Jeff Thomas. I would
- just ask the person speaking if they could provide their name, because I don't have any other name.
- Sure. It's Michael Rams. Thank you. Thank you. Ernesto, do you have any questions about this? No?
- Duncan, do you have questions? No questions. Jeff? No questions. Daniel? No questions. Okay. Melody?
- No questions. I guess my question would be for Noah is could we release the house, but if we tried to
- keep the sidewalk, we'd have to designate the sidewalk as historic.
- We have designated a sidewalk as historic in the past. I honestly don't know how it would work here,
- considering that this would apply to potentially, in this case, whatever stretch of sidewalk is fronting
- the property. I wish I had a clearer answer for you. Obviously, part of the difficulty is the fact that
- the sidewalk is owned by the city but is maintained
- by the adjacent property owner, in which case I'm skeptical as to whether we could designate the sidewalk
- from this demolition delay. OK. Thank you. Jack, do you have any questions? No questions. Did you have?
- Yeah, I want to follow up on your question. I think it merits to investigate it a little bit further.
- If the city owns this sidewalk,
- Why would the petitioner would demolish it? Why would the petitioner demolish it if the city owns it?
- Yeah. With what permission? Is that a question that you'd be able to answer, David? Why are they responsible
- for? If the city owns it, why would the petitioner be allowed to demolish a city-owned property?
- because they'd be upgrading the facility as part of full compliance with new construction. So they would
- need a right of way permit as well from the engineering department, but in order to satisfy our planning
- requirements, that would be included. Same with like a change in use for commercial property. That's
- included with limited compliance as well. So that's fairly typical. OK, thank you. Still not clear.
- Sounds like it might be complicated. That's kind of what I'm getting. Are you looking for a strategy
- to save the sidewalk? I was just curious if there was something there. Curious about a strategy.
- In the past, those designations haven't been linked to the adjacent property necessarily.
- And that sidewalk, I don't know how much of that's brick, but it probably goes beyond that site,
- doesn't it? Yeah, it extends down the block. So most likely, if you were going to designate it, you
- would select the whole thing, which would be more than is just in front of this property. I don't know
- what the city would do if they're requiring the developer to take the sidewalk up. Do they only take
- it up in front of their property? I suppose so.
- So I would look for some kind of variance to protect the sidewalk. If I were the petitioner, I'd want
- to keep it. I'm not saying that the petitioner does, but it seems like that would be available. I have
- these around the house that I own in town, and we've protected them because we take care of them. As
- long as we take care of them. All right. Any other questions?
- did public comment, so I'll entertain a motion on this. I'm going to approve this demolition bill. To
- release the demolition bill? Release it, excuse me. Is there a second? I'll second. OK. All right, let's
- talk about it. Ernesto. Yeah. I think it wouldn't be in the interests of the petitioner
- request a variance? Should we or can we legally have a condition of approval for it? I think, Noah,
- and I need to look at that with the planning department and really see what the feasibility is. We've
- had this come up before. And it's been difficult to separate the house from the obligations for maintaining
- the sidewalk. So I think if you wanted to.
- Explore that. The best thing to do would be to continue this case, to vote down the motion that's on
- the table, and take up a motion to continue the case and give staff a minute to do some research and
- bring it back, whether it's feasible to keep the sidewalk without the house. That sounds appropriate
- to me. Dump into your comments. No, that's the first person I heard come up with the strategies.
- Jeff? I think it's a tall order to get the city, if he's going to build, or I'm guessing he's going
- to build, to not put a real sidewalk. Not really, but a concrete sidewalk. OK. Daniel? I'm sorry. This
- is Daniel. I mean, sorry, David. So if this has come up before, how does that, because that's directly
- in front of that,
- next to the road there. So if that's supposed to be set back, but on either side of it, those are brick
- sidewalks next to the road, how does that? I'm just trying to wrap my head around how that's done. So
- you're asking about the fact that the sidewalks would be different distances from the road. Correct.
- Yeah, so the way I interface with this is,
- like planners will get the demolition permit or the new construction permit, or the poke poke. But when
- the new construction comes along, we have a list of public improvements that they need to make that
- comply with the unified development ordinance. And then the unified development ordinance also references
- the transportation plan. So in the UDO, we have street trees, for example, one large canopy street tree
- every 30 feet.
- In addition to that, it references the transportation plan where you use the typology of each street
- that the property fronts on. And then that determines your tree plot width and your minimum sidewalk
- width as well. So we can get into the weeds a little bit on that. But essentially, the sidewalk does
- need to jog back to,
- the adjacent properties, which have the sidewalk adjacent to the street. We work with the engineering
- department to establish the most reasonable path that people would walk. So sometimes that does result
- in a bit of a stub at the new property. And then when the next one gets developed, we can take that
- little extra triangle that we have now
- once that property gets redeveloped. And we have both of them at the appropriate location. So it does
- vary from case to case. Sometimes there's not a step. Sometimes there is. But we deal with that a lot.
- But we're just trying to get as these come up, as the redevelopments come up, we want everything to
- be in the desired location according to the transportation.
- Any other comment? Melody, comment? John. I think it's a shame that this keeps happening, these demolitions
- keep happening to this neighborhood and I think that this is exactly why the Cottage Grove Historic
- District is being proposed. Karen? I have no comment. Yeah, I'm just curious about breaking up the sidewalk
- in that way.
- And I might be interested to see, in more detail and in writing, a little bit more clarification as
- to what happens instead of just some verbal stuff that's kind of under process at the moment. That's
- my opinion. Jack, comment? Yes. Years ago, our neighborhood restored a historic sidewalk using city
- grants. So it's possible.
- I can't say how likely, but it is entirely possible that you go to the city. And it used to be small
- and simple, and there might have been another grant for more money, but something you might want to
- look into. That's all I have. OK. All right. Thank you very much. We did public comment on this, so
- I think we're ready to do the vote. So a vote for yes is to release the demolition delay. That is correct.
- So there's a motion to release.
- 2602, a yes vote would be to release. Jack Baker? Always a reluctant vote, but yes. John Butler? No.
- Ernesto Castaneda? Yes. Jeff Golden? Yes. Melanie Dusner? Yes. Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hacker? No.
- Daniel Schlegel?
- That is a four, five, three vote. So it does pass. All right. Thank you very much. This is a resolution
- to stop demolition delay waiting period before the 90 or 120 day period has expired and allow a partial
- demolition project to begin for property whose historic designation the pursuit will take place later.
- Today regarding the property located at
- 614 North Grant. 614 North Grant, the Historic Preservation Commission, declares that it got notice
- of the proposed demolition or partial demolition, and after today's discussion, sees no need to review
- the plans any further and waives the rest of the demolition delayed waiting period. The HPC may later
- recommend the property for historic designation to the Common Council. Thank you, Jack. The petitioner
- would like to say something. OK.
- Go ahead. We're trying to get him to a mute. Hey, Noah. I noticed on the slide near the top, it said
- North Rogers address. Yeah, I know. I noticed that. It's 61. I didn't look for the record if you needed
- to correct that or anything. Well, I should correct this when I upload the PowerPoint, certainly.
- But we said we got the right address on this. I was going to make sure. So I saw 6-1-4 further down.
- And I'm here, so we're good. You're two out of three. I've asked him to unmute. We're still. OK. Well,
- I think we'll go ahead and move on then. They can follow up with Noah if they have any other questions.
- We have the packed agenda. I want to check right now to see if Han Chong is present.
- either online or in person? CMA 2607. Yeah. I've also put that in the chat about 20 minutes ago as well.
- OK, so no news from him? I haven't had any indication. I think we can continue that. OK. All right.
- Next up is the historic district nomination. This will go slightly different than the COAs that we've
- had. It will start off with a staff report. We'll have questions from the staff.
- about Noah's report after that. Then there's going to be the owner's discussion. That's basically the
- people who are proposing the petition. They can say a few words and recommending it to the commission.
- The commission then has questions for the people who are petitioning. Then after that is public comment.
- People who are interested in speaking out about this proposed conservation district can say their piece
- at that time. Depending on how many people are here,
- To say that, we might limit the comments to three minutes, just so we're not here until like one o'clock
- in the morning. After the public comment, I'll entertain a motion from the commission, and then we will
- go into discussion and vote after that. So Noah, would you please start off? Okay. This application
- is nomination.
- HD 2601 for the Cottage Grove neighborhood or the Cottage Grove Conservation District. Petitioners include
- John Butler and the Cottage Grove Designation Committee. The push to designate a conservation district
- in the Cottage Grove neighborhood was initiated by neighborhood residents in response to a growing number
- of demolitions in the surrounding area
- including the proposed demolition of 115 East 12th Street, located within the proposed district. Because
- of the historic significance of the house's association with prominent local sculptor Ivan Adams, the
- Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission nominated the property for designation to the Bloomington
- Common Council, and it was individually designated on December 17th, 2025. Meanwhile, a group of residents
- began seeking designation for the wider area,
- sending letters to property owners and hosting a series of public meetings at the Monroe County Public
- Library to discuss the prospect of nominating a conservation district. On December 17th, 2025, petitioner
- Dr. John Butler submitted an application to the Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission. Due to
- difficulties in achieving quorum and delays over the holiday season, the public meeting and vote, hearing
- and vote of the Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission
- On this matter, we're postponed until today, February 12, 2026. Survey and ratings. The Cottage Grove
- Historic District was identified in the early Indiana Division of Historic Preservation and Archaeology
- surveys as an area eligible for designation on the National Register of Historic Places.
- Despite being labeled in the Indiana Historic Sites and Structures Inventory as a historic district,
- the neighborhood has never been designated the local, state, or national level. The area received local
- recognition for its architectural significance in 1974, when the 1852 Creek Revival Mansion of General
- Morton C. Hunter was demolished amongst much public outcry. Although only a couple of buildings of this
- era remain in the district, the neighborhood was recognized by state historians
- for the density and integrity of early 20th century houses. Aside from some mid-century infill, most
- of the buildings in the proposed district date to this period. As of the current city survey of historic
- structures, 15 of the 122 houses in the proposed district are rated notable for their architectural
- significance. One is rated outstanding. 90 is contributing. I checked again today, it's 89.
- This would place the Cottage Grove Historic District among Bloomington's neighborhoods with the most
- consistent architectural significance. The boundaries in the state survey would differ slightly, I don't
- know if that's included, would differ slightly from the proposed local district boundary. They include
- the northeast corner of Walnut and 10th Street, which has not yet been redeveloped, as well as the south
- side of Cottage Grove between
- Grant and Dunn, which have been mostly redeveloped. The boundaries admit most of Grant north of Cottage
- Grove, because while most of the houses on this block date from the early development of the neighborhood,
- many have lost their integrity. Also admitted is the 300 block of East 12th Street for unclear reasons,
- and the west side of 700 block of Washington Street, which was platted later and built mostly post-war.
- The boundaries proposed in this petition includes most of the Lades, Rohrer, Clarks, and Reeds addition,
- as well as half of the Cottage Grove addition. This represents a contiguous area, mostly developed in
- a short span of time, emitting areas for which integrity has been largely lost. This district is being
- nominated under three criterion presented by the
- a Bloomington Historic Preservation Ordinance, including criterion 1C, 2E, and 2G. Criterion 1C is for
- historic significance, exemplifying the cultural, political, economic, social, or historical heritage
- of the community. The Cottage Grove neighborhood was largely built to provide housing to employees of
- the nearby Showers Furniture Company and Limestone Industry, which dominated the economy of turn of
- the century Bloomington.
- Like many Bloomington neighborhoods of this area, the Cottage Grove was economically mixed. Most of
- the houses were associated with workers in these industries. And as will be explained below, material
- and architectural features in the built environment attest to the important role that these industries
- played in the development of the area. Under criteria for architectural significance, 2E,
- contains any architectural style, detail, or element in danger of being lost. The applicants list several
- unusual buildings and features, including Bloomington's only example of a brick Queen Anne style house
- and a bungalow with a Belvedere, an original feature that would stand out on any bungalow.
- Another particularly rare building type can be found at 217 East 10th Street in the form of a Civil
- War era hall and parlor house that faithfully displays Greek revival features popular in the 1800s.
- Several similar examples can be found in Bloomington, but this farmhouse would rank among Bloomington's
- oldest extant buildings. Another criterion being considered is 2G,
- for exemplifying the built environment in an era of history characterized by a distinctive architectural
- style. The solid majority of the buildings in the proposed district date from the years before and after
- World War II. Pre-war houses, mostly working class, predominate in the eastern part of the district.
- World War I. Did I say World War II? OK, well, it says World War I in the packet, so I was wrong.
- Pre-war houses, mostly working class, predominate in the eastern part of the district, like
- in contemporaneous neighborhoods west of downtown. Most of these are built in folk Victorian and Queen
- Anne style. Many in gabledell form, commonly associated with this period in Bloomington's history, with
- a number of limestone, sorry. Houses from the late 1910s and 1920s are mostly craftsman style.
- with a conspicuous number of limestone two-door revival houses. Many of the pre-war homes were built
- by employees of the Showers Brothers Furniture Company and bear the hallmarks of carpenter-built folk
- housing, while many of the larger post-war houses are associated with the booming limestone industry.
- In parts of the neighborhood, brick sidewalks and limestone retaining walls distinguish this
- early Bloomington neighborhood.
- The staff recommendation is for forwarding this nomination of the Cottage Grove should be Conservation
- District to the Bloomington Common Council. The Cottage Grove has long been identified as an area with
- architectural significance and integrity potentially eligible for historic designation. The applicants
- who prepared this nomination for the Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission have demonstrated
- care in the nomination process and strong local support for a conservation district. In addition to
- the area's historical and architectural significance, the neighborhood consists of a densely populated
- mix of students, owner occupants, and other renters, a mix of upscale and affordable properties, and
- an attractive walkable environment close to downtown and the IU campus. While much of the surrounding
- area has been redeveloped, the western core of the Cottage Grove neighborhood demonstrates a strong cohesion.
- At this point, I'm done with my report. OK, then we'll do Commissioner questions about your report first.
- Ernesto, do you have any questions for Noah? I do now. Duncan, do you have any questions for Noah? No.
- Jeff? Not at this time. All right, Daniel, any questions? Well done, Noah. Melody, any questions? No.
- I'm not going to take part in the discussion. OK.
- Abstain, I guess, or is it recuse? Recuse. I recuse yourself in discussion. All right. Thank you, John.
- No questions. I don't have any questions. Jack, do you have any questions? I think this was a wonderful
- presentation. No questions. All right. Thank you very much. Do you have a question, Paul? Go ahead.
- Did you look at zoning? Is there significant pressure on all these properties in this area because of
- the zoning?
- I get why they want to protect it because those houses are in peril. And I guess I asked that question
- because would that affect how the council looks at this? It might, but for us, we're looking at the
- historical significance and architectural significance. So that's not really for us to consider. Any
- other questions for NOAA from the commissioners?
- All right, seeing none, we'll move over to the petitioners who would like to speak out on behalf of
- this. We ask that you try to limit your comments to three minutes, to be fair to everybody who's going
- to be speaking after this. Who would like to speak? I have a little thing I wrote. Yeah, that's fine.
- Yep. My name is Amy Butler. I've been a major part of trying to get this done.
- The fear of them being all torn down is why we've done this. And so I just had a short thing on one
- break. Cottage Grove is a neighborhood worth protecting. This neighborhood is a small collection of
- 100-year-old or older homes that represent diverse architectural styles that are core to Bloomington.
- They are built of materials and used techniques from their era. They cannot be duplicated. Once they
- are lost, we are not getting them back. All the bits and pieces are present that make for a nice place to live.
- We have green spaces around our houses, including big mature trees and the subsequent shade they provide,
- even cooling the houses next door and the houses down the street. Our streets all have sidewalks, some
- of which are made of 100 to 120 year old bricks. And then there's the WPA era limestone sidewalks created
- by people needing work in a difficult time for our country. These sidewalks, our hand built limestone
- walls, and the big old trees make for an especially pleasant place to walk in the summer when we are
- heading downtown.
- Most of our houses also have big porches providing exterior spaces our residents can enjoy much of the
- year. Some of the porches wrap around the house and the house will have a second entrance offering an
- additional place for the residents to enter their home. This is a great example of how houses were able
- to work well for the resident owner and their renters at the same time. Our neighborhood has a wonderful
- versatility to it. These old houses have multiple uses over the years. Some have been residents for
- many years and others have been rentals since they were built.
- Some rental houses have even turned back to owner-occupied residents. Our houses are adaptable and useful,
- and that is why they have lasted for all these years. These are houses built by our working class, business
- managers, and mill owners. Indiana's own Hoagy Carmichael was born in a house that would have been in
- our district. We have students, retirees, professionals, and even families. Our neighborhood is a great
- example of Bloomington's cultural heritage. It is facing significant development pressure, and I encourage
- you to vote in favor of protecting it.
- Thank you for your time and considering Cottage Road. Thank you very much for your comments. I appreciate
- that. All right. Commissioner, questions for the petitioners? Ernesto, do you have any? Duncan, do you
- have any questions? No. Jack? No. Daniel? Melody? No. Karen? No. I don't have any questions. Jack, do
- you have questions? All right. Well, now we're coming up to the public comments section where everybody
- can speak up.
- on behalf. Each person, once I call upon them, you will have three minutes to speak. I'll make sure,
- I'll go around the room. We'll go in person first, and then we'll go online to get the people that are
- online who would wish to speak. If you want to say something about this, please raise your hand.
- All right, go ahead. The gentleman in the green shirt, can you state your name? And then you have three
- minutes. My name is Jordan Evans. I'm here today as the president of the Old Northeast Neighborhood
- Association.
- I did prepare a letter for this. I participated in the meetings as well when I was available. So on
- behalf of the Old Northeast Neighborhood Association, we're writing to express our support
- for the development or redevelopment of properties within the boundaries of the Old Northeast Downtown
- Neighborhood Association. It's our understanding that residents in the High Point Neighborhood Association
- are seeking to apply for the level of historical designation for the entire neighborhood.
- As discussed and agreed upon in our last meeting, we do not support that as the old Northeast Neighborhood
- Association. We recognize thoughtful development, plays an important role in maintaining the vibrant,
- sustainable, and inclusive community that we have. We support projects that respect the character of
- the neighborhood while contributing to Bloomington's broader goals relating to housing availability,
- economic vitality, and responsible land.
- The Old Northeast Downtown Neighborhood Association believes that well-planned development in compliance
- with city standards with appropriate community engagement strengthens our neighborhood by improving
- underutilized or aging properties, increasing housing options, and increasing the overall quality of
- life for our residents, whether those are renters or homeowners. We appreciate the city's ongoing efforts
- to balance the growth in the neighborhood, as well as the interests
- of the people living in it. We look forward to continue to engage constructively on projects like this.
- We do want to be clear. We oppose the mapping as proposed. The lines do encroach upon the established
- old Northeast neighborhood district. And we were not consulted with or brought on any of the development
- with this. So appreciate everybody's time and consideration. Thank you very much.
- Other public comments? Yes, sir. Please state your name. Brian Allen. I own property in the neighborhood.
- Again, across the street from the house you guys just approved for the release of the demo, I own right
- across the street, 322 East Cotter Grove, 320, 316, and 315. And unfortunately, my houses fall right
- across the street into this map here
- So I oppose the nomination. I reiterate what Jordan has said, and thank you for your time. Thank you
- very much. Other public comments in the room? Anyone want to raise their hand? Yes, sir. Yes,
- I'm Bill Freel, and I've lived at 209 East 10th Street for 40-some years. The intentions that these
- gentlemen have expressed are excellent and ideal,
- As properties exchange hands and times change, sometimes those ideals are not met. And we get the wholesale
- swath of destruction that we have seen in similar neighborhoods, such as specifically the 11 and 1200
- block in North Woodburn, which is streets similar to our neighborhoods, but have been leveled and replaced
- with shoebox-like buildings that are now
- of IU students, which most of whom are fine neighbors, but some of whom are not. So we just want to,
- I remember hearing this gentleman here talk about respecting the integrity of the neighborhood. And
- that's really what we're after, is just to do that and to have a little bit of restraint towards the
- idea of development
- maybe some ideals that are or are not met. I support this, and I support the butlers. They've made a
- great effort. I hope you agree with it. Thank you very much for your comments. Any other comments from
- in the room? Raise your hand. Yes, please, go ahead. My name is James Ford. I live in the neighborhood.
- Unlike some people who just own property and rent,
- We have already submitted our comments in letters to the packet so they can be read. What we're all
- thinking, you'll see that there has only been one single letter of opposition. The gentleman who was
- here, he's gone. I don't know where he went. Most everyone that has submitted letters formally were
- in favor of this, as I am in favor of it. It is likely the last neighborhood in Bloomington that can
- be protected by this commission.
- The growth has been so fast lately, developers, that what's left of any unprotected neighborhoods is
- going to be eaten up fairly quickly. I hope that you choose to protect this area the way it is a small
- area. It has not a large percentage of people who are owning that live in there, but perhaps once it's
- protected, it will become more desirable.
- More people will want to live in there. And that's all I have to say. All right. Thank you very much
- for your comments. Tonda, do we have anybody online who would like to speak? We have some online people.
- I did put a note in there that they would be able to speak after those public comments here in person.
- We have a Michael Brands that would like to speak. All right. Michael Brands, go ahead and speak. You
- have three minutes.
- Could we wait for you? Oh, sorry. Now it's unmuted. OK. Go ahead, Michael. Yeah, hi. I am an out of
- town owner. I own a house, as I said, that would fall within this area that's being designated. And
- one at 401, it's slightly outside in the old northeast neighborhood. I am in favor of the neighborhood because
- I know that for me, a lot of my tenants, when they want to rent, they want to live in something that
- resembles a house, something that's in a neighborhood. If they didn't want to live in a neighborhood
- or something that resembles a house, they would move somewhere else. I know there doesn't seem to be
- a lot of engagement with the neighborhood, with development right now. I know as a developer, I don't
- like holding charades to be frank.
- to be unpleasant. But when I did 401 East Cottage Grove, I held a couple of them. And some of the concerns
- of the neighborhood were taken into account as a result of the charade. And I think they were probably
- compromised in what I built. The house could have been knocked down. I did not knock it down.
- And I think, you know,
- Certainly, I'm not against development at all. I like it. I've done it in the neighborhood, for sure.
- But I think it's important to have engagement with the neighborhood. And with the house that was just
- approved for demolition, there doesn't seem to be a lot of emphasis or concern, as far as I can tell,
- on what's being put back.
- It was a while ago when I redeveloped 401 East Cottage Grove, vinyl siding was not something the neighborhood
- wanted to see. There was back and forth about what the house should look like when it was rebuilt. And
- I do think that's important. It surely cost me more money to put on cement board siding than vinyl.
- But I understand why the neighborhood wanted it.
- And I think perhaps, you know, this would at least put, you know, some guardrails and require some,
- you know, back and forth with the neighborhood. I mean, I know for at least, you know, maybe I missed
- it, but for the house that was knocked down, there was no charade that's going to be knocked down in
- 614. There was no engagement with the neighborhood. That's it. Thank you. All right. Thank you very
- much. Are there any other?
- comments from folks that are online. Okay well we'll move on to the next step then. So the next step
- is I will sorry I just I was timing it too. The next step is to entertain a motion on this conservation
- district designation.
- I move to forward the nomination for College Grove Conservation District to Bloomington Common Council.
- Is there a second? Ernesto's second. All right. We're going to have comments. Ernesto, any comments?
- No comments. Other than I support the initiative for this. That's all. All right. Duncan, comments?
- Yeah, I obviously I support it and I want to commend the neighbors who brought this forward. I've looked
- at a lot of historic district dominations and this one I think is really thorough. It's really good
- at pointing out what's very special and also what's kind of normal about it and really emphasizing both
- and I think it
- The argument that actually I think it was Noah's maybe research about how many notable houses there
- are vis-a-vis or relative to the total count, that struck me enough that I kind of took a cruise through
- the neighborhood again to remind myself that I used to have a lot of friends who lived on North Washington
- Street many, many years ago, almost all of whom moved out because of student takeover.
- But a lot of the houses along there are ones that I've spent a lot of time in over the years and they're
- quite remarkable. So the fact that this district represents the housing in the grid and the working
- class improvements that came along with showers and limestone industry, which by the way is true of
- the Bloomington Westside community as well and probably most of the inner city neighborhoods.
- is still, nevertheless, it's an important thing to remember. And the sort of pre-World War I and post-World
- War I differentiation I found interesting, and I hadn't really thought about that. So I think it's a
- good nomination, and you should be commended for the job you did. Thank you, Duncan. Jeff, any comments?
- Yeah, so I've watched downtown change significantly. And because of what I talked about before, the
- change in zoning,
- facilitating large multi-unit properties. And this is a pocket of houses that obviously has some really
- special houses. I think it's worth protecting. Thank you. Daniel. I have nothing else to add. I think
- it's well done, so I think it's worth supporting. Melody. I agree. Karen. Well, I'd
- second what Duncan said about it being a great nomination and these very interesting aspects that are
- brought forward. But I would add something that Noah mentioned in his report, I think it's in the application
- too, is that for decades, I think, this neighborhood has been waiting, shall we say. It's been identified as a
- potential, great potential historic district, and I think it was just waiting for the right people to
- come along to bring it forward, neighborhood, gather the neighborhood support, and I'm really happy
- to see it happen. As for me, I fully support the findings that are in the staff report. I find this
- area to have historic significance and architectural significance as laid out by Noah. As Duncan mentioned,
- it has a very high number of notable houses, especially compared to some of the other districts that
- we have within the city. So this has my full support based on the historic significance and architectural
- significance of the properties there. Jack, comments?
- I thought it was a great petition as well. I always want to point out, in the case of conservation districts,
- that things used to happen fast. Before DD and before conservation districts, houses could disappear
- very quickly, two, three days. And you wouldn't even know them until it was gone. That's why.
- these two protections were brought about. And words that we use for them are protection, security, stability,
- integrity, among others. And they slow the destruction. They don't make the neighborhood grow necessarily,
- but generally the neighborhoods, I think, do grow and become more solid and
- social because they're conservation districts. You also get to make rules about what can be done, can't
- be done, rules that protect the neighborhood and keep them sustainable. So I'm a great proponent of
- conservation districts and will certainly support this one. Thank you, Jack.
- We've already done public comments on this, so I think we're ready to go ahead with the vote. OK. Just
- looking at the chair. There we go. There's been a motion to forward to Common Council for designation,
- which has been seconded. We'll take a roll call vote. Jack Baker? Yes. John Butler? I'm so sorry. You
- recused yourself. My apologies. Ernesto Castaneda? Yes. Jeff Golden? Yes.
- Melanie Duesner? Yes. Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hackard? Yes. Daniel Schlegel? Yes. That motion passes.
- All right, Jack, you need to read the forward. Thank you. But you need that. It's a constitution that's
- not historic. Let's see where that is. OK. This is a resolution to forward a recommendation for property
- to get historic designation to the common council.
- Today, the HBC declares that all property located at what's our description? Cottage Grove. At Cottage
- Grove meets the following criteria for the local designation referred to in the staff report. Then we
- have one, two, and three. What do we fill in those blanks? Do we need to read out the specific ones?
- I think we should. OK, hair tag. Sorry, it's the bolded ones. OK.
- Number one here is it exemplifies the cultural, political, economic, social, or historic heritage of
- the community. Number two, it exemplifies the built environment in an era of history characterized by
- a distinctive architectural style. Do we have others? Exemplifies the built environment in an era of
- history characterized by a distinctive architectural style.
- Consequently, the HPC recommends to historic designation under Title VIII of the Bloomington Municipal
- Code to the common council with the attached map. I assume that NOAA has that map. And then we need
- to do another thing. I would recommend that we put this area under interim protection. I would entertain
- a motion. OK, Daniel. Daniel, make a motion.
- I'll second. Jack's got the second. OK, thank you. All right. Any discussion? All right. I think we're
- ready for a vote. I'm so sorry. It's been moved and seconded to place this area. Can we move them? Yeah,
- here I'm trying to. I'm having trouble seeing which one is not rated. Michael Bryan. Yeah.
- Michael you are on the meeting right now. My apologies I could not see him on my screen so it's been
- moved and seconded to place this area under interim protection. We'll go ahead and take a vote on that.
- Jack Baker? Yes.
- Ernesto Castaneda? Yes. Jeff Golden? Yes. Melanie Duesner? Yes. Karen Duffy? Yes. Jeremy Hackard? Yes.
- Daniel Schlegel? Yes. That motion for interim protection has passed. This is a resolution to place interim
- protection on a property that has been sent to the Common Council with a recommendation of local historic
- designation. Today, after a vote, the HBC recommends that the Common Council locally designate the property
- at Cottage Grove
- as historic and places the property under interim protection pending action by the Common Council under
- BMC 8.08.015. All right, thank you, Jack. I just want to point out this isn't over. This goes to the
- Common Council where they will vote and they will not just be considering the historic and architectural
- significance. So you cleared the first hurdle. We'll see what happens.
- with the next one. But congratulations for tonight. Good luck. All right. We still have stuff to do.
- Old business. Noah, do we have old business to discuss? As some of you may know, Elm Heights Historic
- District has put together a committee that is reviewing their current guidelines, seeing if they want
- to make any changes to them.
- Um, per their neighborhood associations rules and procedures for how they're going about this, they
- want to have a serving member of the historic preservation commission who can attend at least some of
- their meetings. Um, previously this had been Sam de Saller, um, since he has not been reappointed to
- the commission, um, is continuing to serve as an interested party, but the, uh, neighborhood association
- is looking for interested volunteers who are currently serving on the, uh,
- Historic Preservation Commission. You don't have to answer right now. But if you could think about it,
- email Noah. If you have some interest in doing that, that would be of great help to us. So I appreciate
- you thinking about that. Anything else, Noah? There's something I'd like to add on our new business.
- All right. If we're looking for a new business, let's do it. I've been putting together a new
- procedure for handling violations to make sure that it's dealt with consistently and in front of past
- the ANAs. And part of what actually Anna Holmes here proposed is that once we present the language,
- which I hope to do with the next HPC meeting, that the commission decide whether or not they want to
- vote it into the rules and procedures. That way, it's going to be something that we do pro forma
- and won't be lost when there's turnover and institutional knowledge, as has sometimes happened. Anybody
- have any questions about that for Noah? I think it'd be great to have that written down, and it's pretty
- clear. Any other new business from you? I'm trying to think. It's OK if you don't. Anything going on
- at the history center? Oh, that would be Commissioner Reynolds. Yeah. Commissioner Comments, does anybody
- wish to share any comments?
- I do. I want to thank Renard Cross and Sam Desala for their service. They were not reappointed to this
- commission. I think they brought different points of view, a lot of knowledge. I especially want to
- thank Sam for last year for serving as chair. I think he did a really good job. So I just want to recognize
- them for their service on this commission. And then just another thing, thanks everybody for voting
- me for chair, or at least those of you who voted.
- I will try not to royally screw it up. So thank you. Any other comments from the commissioners? Yeah,
- I just have a quick comment. So I have been on this commission many years in the past. And I know that
- one of my faults is I'm a real estate appraiser. So you heard it tonight. I can't turn off the financial
- thing. So it's always in my head. So call me up.
- going to reclaim some time for me. I also want to welcome the new members as well, Jeff and John. And
- then Karen is a voting member now. I know Abby wasn't able to make it, but we have another new person.
- So welcome back and welcome in different ways. Yeah, Abby sends her regrets. It sounds like she's on
- vacation. She didn't know when the new appointment would happen. So she'll be here hopefully in March.
- Excellent. All right, any other final public comments? There's last chance for public comments.
- still have a petitioner that was wanting to speak earlier. And I've just asked to see if they wanted
- to in this last. Well, we have an in-person comment. We can go ahead with that. I actually have just
- a question, and I think I should address it to council. If a property or an area is put under interim
- protection, and if someone had previously demolished a house intending to build something, but they
- have not yet submitted a plan, a building plan,
- They've already started. Can the interim protections stop it right now, protecting the building because
- they have not yet submitted a building plan? I know that's a, I'm not asking for an answer. I'm asking,
- I wanted to ask, put up the question and I hope to maybe find out how to go about finding that answer.
- So that's all. I'm happy to look into that for you. That's a good response.
- Specifically, it's 717 North Green. Thank you. All right. Any other comments? I would just like to say
- that I really was hoping to not be a member of this commission when the vote happened. I'm sorry that
- the timing went like that. But I don't want to put anybody in a bad position. You recuse yourself. It's
- been a long time. Anything else? All right.
- Hearing no other comments, this meeting is adjourned.