- We'll begin with a call to order and roll call. Thank you. Renard Cross. Jack Baker. Here. And my apologies.
- Treasurer Butler. Present. Commissioner Castaneda. Here. Commissioner Duesner. Here. Commissioner Duffy.
- Here. Commissioner Golden.
- Chair Hackard, Commissioner Schlegel. Here. We have quorum. All right. Thank you. We'll move on into
- approval of minutes. Does anyone have any comments on minutes? Any motions for changes to the minutes?
- Or a motion for approval of minutes? So moved. All right. Thank you. I'll second.
- All right, thank you. We have a motion to approve the minutes and a second. Would you please call the
- roll? Certainly. And yes vote would be to approve the minutes from the July 23 meeting. Jack Baker?
- Yes. And I apologize, co-chair Baker, treasurer Butler. That's all right. Abstain. Bye. Commissioner
- Castaneda? Yes.
- Commissioner Duesner? Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. The minutes have been
- approved. All right, thank you. Minutes are approved. Moving on to staff review, let me read a document
- here we always read before.
- For each, this is a procedure for certificates of appropriateness and demolition delays. For each item
- on the agenda, the historic preservation program manager will first present a staff report. We will
- then hear if the petitioner has any additional information about the request, followed by public comment.
- Once public comment concludes, commissioners will be able to ask questions to staff, the petitioner,
- and the public.
- We ask that petitioners, the public, and commissioners refrain from speaking until addressed by the
- chair unless a question is directly addressed to them. Following commissioner questions, the chair will
- then entertain a motion from a commissioner regarding the petition. Once a motion is made, we will then
- open up the discussion of the item for members of the commission only. Finally, once the commissioners
- have each had a chance to speak, the commission will vote on the petition.
- We encourage all commissioners, petitioners, and members of the public to be civil and respectful at
- all times. I'll pass it to you, Noah. Thank you, Vice Chair Baker. So our first certificate
- of appropriateness for the evening is COA 2651, 4837 West 6th Street in the Near West Side Historic
- District. Built in the 1970s, 837 West 6th is a gable front single story house with a brick veneer facade,
- aluminum siding,
- and a porch pediment on iron posts. This house is located on a corner lot with a detached garage in
- the rear. The request is for the installation of a wooden picket style fence at four feet of height
- to meet UDO standards. The fence will have two gates, one in the north and one on the west side of the house.
- off the city sidewalk and opening inward onto the walkway approaching from the north. The fence will
- be placed according to the following boundaries, west side of the property, inside the property line
- approximately to the city right of way, and north along the south side of the sidewalk. Each
- side approximately three feet west of the property line shared with the neighboring house
- at 831 West 6th Street. The enclosed area is to be 700 square feet. And staff approves COA 2641. The
- proposed fence meets standards for placement, height, and materials. Thank you. Next item, COA 2652.
- This is 400 West 7th Street, the Johnson Creamery Building.
- petitioner is Greg Elgar. Johnson Creamery is a two-story rectangular, building is a two-story rectangular
- structure with a stepped parapet roof built in 1913. The conglomeration of added components signify
- the large success of the operation and the end result is a 35,000 square foot industrial complex. In
- the early years at West 7th Street, a two-story structure was built to the east of the original building
- conforming in shape and orientation to the railroad tracks. A small boiler room and smokestack were
- added just to the north of this addition. Another structure around 1923 enclosing the mechanical operation
- of the company was built to connect the boiler room to the building. A one-story detached garage was
- built in the early 1920s to the west of the main building and was connected to the main building in
- 1927 with the completion of the ice house.
- In 1949, the original smokestack was replaced with the current manifestation, which has been truncated
- in the middle. The complex was further expanded in the 1950s with two-story additions to the southeast
- and southwest, as well as the addition of a second story to the 1920s garage space. This request is
- for the replacement of the acrylic Orion wall sign.
- with a replacement that would be internally lit. Otherwise, same design, dimensions and attachment.
- Any new holes that would be required would be made through mortar joints. And staff approved COA 2652.
- Thank you. The new signage would imitate the existing signage in all respects, except for the addition
- of internal lighting.
- The plan makes use of existing mounting and the signage is located on a newer part of the building.
- One more for me before I hand it over to you guys. COA 2653 for 112 West 6th Street in the Courthouse
- Square Historic District. Petitioner here is also Greg Elgar. And the request is for the installation
- of new 18-inch acrylic lettering over the storefront
- to read edit and company. So this is the building that currently reads Bonfette, a notable neoclassical
- commercial building with a limestone facade and staff approved COA 2653. The proposed lettering would
- be mounted in the same location as existing lettering and would be very similar in design and materials
- as well as fairly understated.
- We'll move on then to commission review, starting with COA 26-50. OK. COA 26-50, 4701 South Eagleson
- in the Elm Heights Historic District. Is anybody here present as petitioner? Mark, no.
- My name is Martin Eagleboy, the homeowner. Hi. So 701 South Eagleson is a two-story limestone two-door
- revival house with an overlapping gable entrance on the south end and a second story dormer window.
- There are two additions with false half-timbering on the north and rear over an added cinder block garage.
- This request
- is looking to tear down and reconstruct an addition on the east side of the home, first level. This
- addition is currently on top of the garage structure below with a partial coverage by a deck. The structure
- has been compromised for water intrusion and this request would remove the first level portion of the
- structure and replace most of it with a slightly larger addition.
- This proposal would cover the rear entry to the deck, but not the second story windows. Limestone
- wainscotting is proposed for the first floor rear addition. Is there anything else that the homeowner
- would like to add? No, that sounds good. Okay. The recommendation from staff is for approval of COA
- 2650. Located on the rear of the property, but visible from the street, the proposed addition is
- Appropriately scaled to the property and complements the original structure and side addition and design
- and materials Judging from aerial imagery the side and rear additions appear to have been added in the
- 1960s Although the rear of the house has a long sorry has long had a second-story deck While the rear
- door would be enclosed the plan calls for leaving the second-story windows uncut
- Commissioner comments, questions at this point? Daniel, would you like to start us? It's questions?
- Questions, yes. The one thing I was just going to ask Noah is if did the Elm Heights Historic District
- wait? I see their guidelines. Sorry, I lost my word. But did they review it and did they provide
- a recommendation? Yeah, I heard from one member of their design review committee who is actually in
- the audience tonight.
- And she had recommended approval as well. OK. But I had some questions about, I believe, the layout
- of the limestone wainscoting and whether the proposed board and batten siding is going to resemble the
- false half-timbering on the existing additions. OK. Perfect. Thank you, Noah. Commissioner Butler? No
- questions.
- Mr. Duffy? No questions. Mr. Duesner? No questions. No questions, thank you. All right. That leaves
- the floor open for a motion. If someone is so inclined. Do you want to do a public comment? Do you want
- to do a public comment? Oh, I'm sorry. That's my fault. I should have done that first. Yes. Would you
- like to speak? Yes. This is for a public comment.
- Yeah, I never did get the answers about my questions about the wainscoting going up the wall. I wasn't
- sure that was up on the porch. It goes up to the windows. I wasn't sure that was. Is that what's intended
- or is it just going to the bottom of the deck or is it going from the deck up to the windows? So from
- what I had heard from the architect, it sounds like it's going to be above the cement garage, but
- I'm sorry. From the deck level to the windows on the addition. So that's more 60s style? Like range
- style? Is that the kind of weight toning you were thinking there? Because I said, we said we basically
- support the, or I basically support the thing, but I had a little concern about the design there, if
- it was appropriate to the house. The weight toning, not the addition.
- That was the only question. Okay, well, I guess that's a comment too. Anyway, so you answered my question
- that yes, it is going up to the top of the list. So, thank you. Would you state your name for the record?
- Ah, okay. Virginia Southern. I live in Elm Heights Historic District and I'm on the Historic Review
- Group. Thank you. Anyone else from the public? Anyone online?
- All right, now we're looking for a motion, if you wish. I'll move that we approve. All right, we have
- a motion for approval. Shouldn't we do Commissioner Comments first? I'm sorry? Shouldn't we do Commissioner
- Comments first? We have a motion on the floor. You can second. We will do Commissioner Comments.
- Once it's. Got you got. You second it all right. Let's start with Daniel. Commissioner Schlegel again
- for comments. Yes, apparently I am second. I think it'd be good as long as it fits Elm Heights historic
- district since.
- We're here to support them. So if it falls into their regulations and Noah's review, I think I'd be
- good with this. Thank you. Mr. Butler? Yeah, I mean, I think if Elm Heights is OK with this and if it
- conforms to their standards, which I think it probably does, I think it would be maybe it seems like
- the question wasn't necessarily answered as to what type of siting
- It's going to have, is that true? Well, it's going to have board and batten siding. OK. Is that going
- to match the style of the front? It's going to be similar to the style on the addition. I don't know
- if they're going with the same paint colors that hasn't been answered yet, or similar. All right. That's
- my only comments. Mr. Deffin?
- Yes, I would support this proposal because the design review, which I'm happy that the design review
- committee approves it, too. Just say in driving by, I couldn't see it at all from the front. The trees,
- with the tree growth, of course, trees can be cut down. But it's really only visible from the adjoining
- street. I mean, it's a corner property.
- Just in case other people didn't see that, this view on the right is on the side street. And it's set
- back. I don't think it's going to be any kind of a problem of obstructing the house at all. Thank you.
- Commissioner Dues? No additional comments? I will support this project.
- because they are supporting it. But I do agree with the fact that it is not clear enough what is happening.
- Those questions that were brought up about how is this going to be finished, I think those are valid
- questions because I don't see how that is going to be executed. Oh, this is new. OK. Thank you. OK.
- That's all I have to say. Thank you for the additional information. I'm sorry, I forgot how many slides
- there were. Thank you. It looks great. So did the commissioner comments? Well, I think we're ready to
- call the roll. A yes would be affirmative for passing COA 26-50. OK, we'll go ahead and take a roll
- call vote.
- Vice Chair Baker? Yes. Treasurer Butler? Yes. Commissioner Capitanada? Yes. Commissioner Duesner? Yes.
- Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. That motion passes 6-0. Thank you. Motion passes.
- All right, before we move on, we will move on to demolition delay. But before we get into the first
- one, I've been asked that staff and legal would like to make some explanatory comments. So we've received
- or I received a question from a member of city council about the statement that is read after demolition
- delay release that
- I know Commissioner Butler has the language in front of him but says that the commission may designate
- a property at a later point. And she was somewhat confused about that language I think understandably.
- So we would like to come up with some revised language for that part of the statement. The answer to
- what exactly that means is a little complicated because there's sort of a lot to what
- release of demolition delay kind of means and what the one year period means and whether it's you know
- partial demolition or full demolition but we will be coming up with something there to present to you.
- Right and the question was also asked whether we were legally required to have this language because
- it is kind of confusing right
- And the answer is yes, it protects the city by putting on the record that the demolition permit is good
- for one year. And after that one year, if the demolition is not done, that's when the commission could
- go back and determine that they might want to designate it, right? So the permit does not last forever.
- It's a finite period of time and everything resets if that permit elapses. It's the same thing with
- the COA, right? You don't have the authority forever to do the thing that you got a limited time to do.
- So it's important from a legal standpoint that that is clear whenever we give a demolition release so
- that there's no expectation that someone can come back later and demolish it, or that it wouldn't be
- designated later. Any questions? Thank you. Let's move in. I don't know if you would present DD25-1.
- Okay, demolition delay 2511. This is for 216 North Lincoln Street. A petitioner is Ernest G. This is
- for full demolition. 216 North Lincoln is a somewhat altered gable from bungalow built in 1920. The
- house is fronted by a full width brick porch with two limestone planters and a limestone drain spout.
- The windows and doors have been replaced and do not appear to be the original configuration. The house
- has what appears to be an original basement garage door facing the alley to the south. This property
- has frequently switched hands since the time it was built, passing from concrete mason Albert Funk to
- stone sawyer Frank Riordan and his wife, the librarian Cora Riordan in 1923.
- In the 1940s, the house was bought by the widow Helen Nunnally, who sold it in 1950, to bank teller
- Robert Gray and his wife Liz. Liz began renting out spare rooms and sold the house in 1955 to Agnes
- Martin, a widow who lived in the house until her death in 1977, renting out spare rooms. The
- staff recommendation is for the release of Demolition Delay 2611.
- Does the petitioner have anything that they would like to add? No, we don't. Thank you. All right.
- Thank you. Well, let's go on to Commissioner Question. Any questions? Mr. Dealer? Mr. Duffy? I have
- a question. Mr. Sandovales, when I read this and looked at the House,
- I presume that the Sawyer made those limestone flower boxes. They look very homemade. I don't think
- he would have had to have had any special fancy equipment other than just getting the materials there.
- I guess I'd like to, well, first of all, ask you. You didn't see any notation about that.
- Then my second question would be to Mr. C, if he maybe has talked to Steve Wyatt at BRI to see if he
- might be interested in salvaging those.
- I'm here on behalf of the petitioner, so I don't know for sure if he has or not, but I know he typically
- does. Yes. And it's really fine with anything like that happening. Yeah. Yes, thank you. I appreciate
- that. If I may ask, I don't want to speak out of turn, but BRI, have they had a look at the agenda for
- this meeting? I just wanted to know what it is. I don't know. OK. I don't know if he has. He typically
- does, Steve.
- typically does, but I can't speak for him because I haven't talked to him. Thank you. Commissioner Butler?
- No. Commissioner Schlegel? All right. Any more questions? I think we are ready to put a motion on the
- floor if you so desire. These are always hard. Any public comments?
- Yes. Would anyone like, from the public, would like to speak to this demolition delight? Anyone online?
- Very no one? I'm sorry, were you? Yeah, I was just going to comment. The only thing I was- Adonify yourself
- again. I'm sorry. Virginia Southern.
- I was just going to comment on the limestone boxes. I was going to say the same thing. And I actually
- know several houses that have the hangers sticking out, but their boxes are gone. So there is a need
- around town if there are original pieces. I'm sure there's some people that would like to replace them
- back on the truck. I guess what happens is they're wet. They fill up with water in the winter, and then
- there goes the limestone. So yeah, they're missing on a lot of houses. So those are great.
- That's the only comment. Thank you. All right, now we're ready for a motion. I would put a motion on
- the floor to having a senior moment. The motion to agree with the comments from the staff and a motion
- to release DD 26-11.
- All right, let's call a roll. Comments, sorry. Comments again, please. It's the kind of small housing
- stock with local character that I like to see torn down, especially when, I mean, I can't see what it
- looks like on the inside, but I mean, somebody's obviously put a new roof on this in recent years. It's
- just a shame.
- I realize that goes beyond the purview of the HPC, but I always like to take the opportunity to mention
- it. Yeah, thank you. Mr. Duffy? No. No comments. Mr. Butler? No. Mr. Schlage? I agree with what Mr.
- Duesner said. I think it's a shame. So a yes vote is for releasing DD 2611, if you'd call the roll.
- Certainly.
- We'll go down with the roll call vote here. Vice Chair Baker? Yes. Treasurer Butler? Yes. Commissioner
- Castaneda? Yes. Commissioner Duesner? Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. That
- motion passes 6-0. All right. Motion passes. I think I have a document. We normally read like anything.
- Oh, John's reading good.
- Today, regarding the property located at 216 North Lincoln Street, the Historic Preservation Commission
- declares that it got notice of proposed demolition and after today's discussion, sees no need to review
- the plans any further and waives the rest of the demolition delay waiting period. The HPC may later
- recommend the property for historic designation to the Common Council. Thank you. All right, let's move
- on to DD 26.
- This is Demolition Delay 2612 for 3420 East Adair Lane, which is a modernist. This is a partial demolition.
- I should preface. A modernist 1964 A-frame with a brick and frame construction, a floor-to-ceiling window
- taking up half of the street facing N Gable. A vertical wood shed stands to the east of the building
- under a shed roof that extends from the roof of the house.
- The proposal for partial demolition includes alterations to the patio and entry on the west ledge facing
- the house. Demolition of the existing shed and carport and replacement with an extended carport and
- slightly larger vertical, vertically sided wood shed slightly further from the house.
- and the addition of a second story window on the west elevation. Walk through some of these. From 1964
- until 2024, this house was the residence of Stein and Leon Levy.
- and later Stein's second husband, Albert Koch. Born in Germany in 1927, Stein's family fled to the US
- in 1933. Stein was an active member in the NAACP and a practicing developmental psychologist into her
- 80s, specializing in autism treatment. Stein's first husband, Leon Levy, taught in the IU psychology
- department for 24 years, serving as the director of clinical training for nine of those.
- Leon authored over 60 published articles and was awarded several HHS grants for research on clinical
- practice. He moved to Maryland in 1978. In 1983, Stein remarried Indiana University bacteriologist Arthur
- Koch. Over the course of his career, Koch authored over 250 papers and received numerous awards, including
- a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Rockefeller Scholar Award,
- a welcome research travel grant and a U.S. Public Health Service Award. The recommendation from staff
- is the release of demolition delay 26-12. The proposed alterations are sympathetic to the house's design
- and the design of the existing carport and shed. The changes to the west of the house would be fairly
- minor. And I will say I did receive a comment from a neighbor who expressed concern about the
- septic field at this property, which after some recent work has apparently been leaking into the water
- supply of the neighboring property and wanted to know what the effect of, you know, the changes proposed
- to the house and carport might be.
- Have any comments you'd like to make? Yes, I do. I would like to note that the carport and the porch,
- as you can see in the photos on the left, are failing significantly structurally, and they need remediation.
- So that's part of why we are redoing these areas. That's all. Thank you. Public comment on this?
- Please stand and give us your name. My name is Susan and my mom lives next door and I think the house
- is beautiful and I think the people who lived there were very nice. I grew up with a daughter who grew
- up in the house but I am not concerned with the renovations themselves. I'm concerned with the removal
- of the septic
- field and the septic holding tank. I just want to make sure that it's very carefully monitored so that
- it doesn't leak into my mother's property. My mother was next door. She's 93. She's a widow. She's recovering
- from a stroke. So I just want to make sure that her health and safety goes into consideration. It's
- not just the beauty of the home. It's also the removal of the septic field
- which I'm sure you might want to explain to them what a septic field is if they don't know. I myself
- didn't know and I had to research it. And it said in the United States EPA that the removal of a septic
- field and the removal of a septic holding tank is a very sensitive issue and needs to be handled with
- care and carefully monitored. So that's my concern for my mother who lives there.
- next door and whose property not only borders the property, but is under the property. So anything that
- might leak might leak into her property, which is my concern. But I think the house is beautiful. It's
- always been beautiful. I'm just concerned about the removal of the septic tank, septic holding tank,
- and the removal of all of the different
- little tubes and pipes under the ground contained which of the 70 or maybe, is it 75 year old septic
- field? I'm not sure if it's been years or 75. Since 1953 maybe, 1957. Could be. And I'm also concerned
- about the removal of the water pipe that seems to be
- belonging to them that seems to be in my mom's yard because that would involve digging up my mom's yard
- and I want to make sure that's handled with care as well. Thirdly, this isn't a health and safety issue
- but the border itself, I want to make sure before any digging begins that the property border between
- the two properties is agreed upon with both surveyors so before they start removing my mother's trees or
- the landscape that was designed by Designscape because my parents spent a lot of money on it and they
- thought it was on their property and if it's not on their property, I understand completely, but if
- it is on my mom's property, of course, I wouldn't want it to be destroyed. It seems to me that the proposed
- plan to have the
- the new carport very, very close to the property's edge, perhaps within the, not on the border exactly,
- maybe, but certainly within the setback area. So we just want to make sure that we are all on the same
- page as to where the property border is, agreed upon by both the both parties' surveyors and before
- the demolition
- I'm sorry to take up so much time. And I've done this before, but I just want to make sure that my mom's
- protected. Thank you. She lives alone in her home. My dad died in 2018. And it's hard enough to live
- alone when you're that age. But to live alone with a stroke is even harder. And to live alone
- in a construction site is going to be hard. But as long as we know that my mom can put up a fence or
- something and protect herself from that on her property, then
- That's okay. I just want to make sure health and safety is considered. Yes, thank you. Appreciate the
- comments. I can give a rough idea of what a septic field is to people who might not know, and that is
- it's run off into, it's on a private property where one runs the effluent, the sewage from the house into
- piping and into a settling basin on the property, unconnected to the city sewer, and common in the country.
- I grew up with one. And it uses the ground to soak in some of the liquids and the settling tank,
- the solids. And I know they have to be cleaned every so often. And I don't know the life of one, but
- I understand they can get quite old and they can crack.
- Am I getting at it, or do you have more comments, please? Yeah, that's exactly how they function.
- I believe, and for the record, I will be abstaining from voting because this is coming from my office.
- And Erica is representing, and she's the lead designer on this project. But I can add to your comments
- about the septic field. Yes, it's an old septic field.
- all septic fields have the potential to fail. In this case, there is a city connection to it, and I
- believe we're making the effort to tap into the city. And this septic field will be abandoned and carefully
- taken care of. So I just wanted to let you know that we're taking care of this very carefully and taking
- into consideration all the matters that you just mentioned about your mother.
- The other concern is that on the other side- I'm sorry, we are done now with public comment. Oh, I think-
- I certainly appreciate what you had to say. And there was another question I believe you had. I'm not
- retaining it at the moment. I wanted to try to answer you though. I think it was about property loans.
- I was just going to talk about the water, the public, the water behind the property. I want to make
- sure when the- I want to confirm that when the removal of the septic field and the septic tank are taking
- place that none of the
- leakage goes into the public water where children play and where animals drink. Yeah, absolutely. All
- that procedure has very strict requirements to do for it to happen. It will be carefully done. Is there
- someone monitoring it, overseeing it?
- I cannot tell you who that person is, but I'm sure there is. I mean, we have a whole... I believe the
- application said city and Bloomington utilities asked to... Yeah, cities involved as well. Thank you.
- That's what I wanted to sort of give you a hard answer on this. This commission is not strictly concerned
- with that, but we'll be passing it along to the proper people that
- would be involved with. We wouldn't normally do property lines, that sort of thing. That's not our purview.
- And septic systems, but I want to give you sort of a rough answer on a couple of things. But these would
- go back through NOAA and go back into city divisions. And they would have to control then how things
- are being dug, how it's being handled. And they would control how the septic system. But if it's being
- abandoned, we have no real issue there.
- But we have a different criteria we have to use here. But I hope we gave you some answer on your issues.
- I think at this point, we're ready to ask questions from commissioners. Melanie, let's start with you
- this time. I was just going to ask, and you've already answered,
- who will be the responsible body for overseeing this. And just to make sure that, can we make sure before
- we finish our discussion of this, that the petitioner, well, the neighbor of the petitioner feels that
- she has a good sense of who will be monitoring this. But City of Bloomington, you've already answered
- that question, so my question is answered. Mr. Duffy. No questions. Mr. Butler. Mr. Schlegel.
- I have no further comments. Let's at this point open the floor to motion. I'll move we release DD 2612.
- I'll second that. Thank you. Let's go within the Commission of Comments.
- Let's start with you again. No further comments. This seems like it's been well thought out and a bunch
- of the questions have been answered, whether they're in our review or not. So I think this is a responsible
- project. I have no further comments.
- There's a motion on the floor on DD 2612 that has also been seconded. We'll take a roll call vote. Vice
- Chair Baker? Yes. Treasurer Butler? Yes. Commissioner Castaneda? Yes. Commissioner Duesner? Yes. Commissioner
- Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. That passes five
- One, zero, that one being an abstention. All right. Motion passes. Do I need to read the release of
- that? Yes. Even though it's a partial. Today, regarding the property located at some address. Oh, 3420
- Nista Dayer.
- 3420 East Adair, the Historic Preservation Commission declares that it got notice of proposed partial
- demolition and after today's discussion, sees no need to review the plans any further and waives the
- rest of the demolition delay waiting period. The HPC may later recommend the property for historic
- designation to the common council. All right, thank you. Then let's move along to demolition delay 26-13.
- By demolition delay 2613, this is 403 North Dunn Street. Petitioner is Ernest G. 403 North Dunn Street
- is a one and a half story cross gabled bungalow with a full width brick front porch with tapered wood
- posts. Original three over one and five over one windows and shake siding on the upper level. The house
- was likely built in the early 1920s and no later than 1927.
- replacing an earlier shotgun-style house. While it is difficult to determine the first occupant and
- exact year the house was built, a firefighter named Albert Bender was the first owner-occupant of the
- property in 1925 and seems like a likely candidate for the builder. Like earlier occupants of the lot,
- the Benders only stayed for a couple of years, and by 1960, the house had been home to more than 10
- households,
- of retirees, teachers, stone planers, and university employees. From 1960 until 1995, the house was
- owned by mailman Howard Shiflett Jr. and his wife Peggy. A veteran of the Korean War, Harold, I'm sorry,
- not Howard Shiflett, Harold Shiflett. A veteran of the Korean War, Harold also volunteered as a baseball
- and football referee.
- From 1953 through 1960, the house was home to the family of John P. Sheehan and his wife Eleanor. Of
- all the residents, Sheehan has left the largest record, the head producer of IU Radio and Television
- from 1953 to his death in 1968. Sheehan was a popular speech and media professor and announcer and host
- on Bloomington and IU radio and TV programs. Described by his department chair as someone of his showman,
- Sheehan hosted several radio shows,
- announced events including Little 500 and Campus Quiz Bowl and performed in university theater productions.
- After his untimely death in 1968, the School of Journalism, a School of Journalism scholarship
- was established in his name. The staff recommendation is for the release of Demolition Delay 2613. Generally,
- When a property is evaluated for its association with a significant individual, and this is how it's
- handled for national register criterion B, so that's sort of my background here, it is compared to other
- buildings associated with that person's accomplishments and its significance for that person's contributions
- is considered. As was the case with the home of David A. Randall, director of the Lilly Library at 326
- South Eagleson,
- which is another demolition delay that we considered earlier this year. This was a residence of an individual
- who had a significant impact on the community, whose work is more closely associated with another existing
- property. In this case, the radio television slash fine arts building at Indiana University,
- built in 1963, which is a closely associated with a role that John P. Sheehan played in shepherding
- IU's radio and television program.
- For one of his Bloomington residences to also be eligible for its association, the significance of this
- house to his career accomplishments would have to be established. It is possible that further research
- could yield proof of an association between this house and Sheehan's career, but so far it has not.
- Thank you. Does the petitioner wish to speak?
- We don't have anything to add, thank you. All right, thank you. I did add a comment about 216 North
- Lincoln to the chat, if you guys want to read that, but I don't have anything about Dunn Street.
- All right, thank you. At this point, is there anything anyone from the audience or online would like
- to say? Hearing nothing?
- We'll move on to Commissioner questions. No questions. No questions. Commissioner Guzman. Is the front
- of that porch severely bowed, or is that just a bad photograph? I think that's just whatever skew from
- the... This was a Google Stradia photo. It's got like the fish. Mr. Duffy. No questions. Commissioner Butler.
- Mr. Schlegel. As usual, I struggle with these. And part of it is, I know I'm not going to be as famous
- as the guy that lived here or anything, but for me, most of the time, I do stuff at my house as much
- as I would do it at a place of work. So his connection would be, this would be where a lot of his, maybe
- he didn't do the physical work, but maybe a lot of it came from here. So that's where I'm struggling is,
- it feels like kind of like wholesale destruction of local homes or what made Bloomington Bloomington
- or the people like this IU professor but I also understand that's incredibly I mean I have no doubt
- Noah's done a great amount of research so I'm not going to question that whatsoever and I know that
- can be incredibly difficult because it's not documented it's not like someone unless his journals he
- wrote down this is what I did at my house and then sent it at work
- we're not going to know. So it's just, it's a shame. Thank you. Well, at this point we are open to a
- motion, a number of ways we could go here, but one would like to put a motion on the floor. No,
- Have you, in your research, I mean, do you feel like you've fairly well exhausted everything, or do
- you feel that there's anything left where you can? So, I'll sort of walk you through the main places
- I checked. I started with newspapers for this one, which even through the time period where the Sheehan's
- lived here, there will be occasionally references to
- events at the house, whether people are coming or going from town. The one bit of work that I saw referenced
- by a resident of this house in the newspaper was his son came up with an idea for a dog-powered car
- that he wanted to sell to the police. After that, I checked out IU Archives, which has a couple
- of collections related to radio television and to John Sheehan more specifically.
- I saw information, a handful of newspaper clippings in there, letters related to his promotion to producer,
- stuff from his funeral. I didn't really see any references to things taking place at his house. He lived
- here for approximately like most of the first half of his
- time in IU, then he moved to another house up in, not Mailock Heights, but other neighborhood up there.
- It's not quite as cool as this one. Yeah, I did it. Most of the extracurricular stuff not related to
- RTV was stuff that he did with other radio stations or with community theaters, what it looked like.
- I will put a motion on the floor with some comments attached. The motion is to release DD 26-13, the
- comments that if someone feels strongly about trying to designate, motions can be withdrawn. I could
- withdraw that motion. But I'm doubting that with the information we have, it would meet the criteria
- for designation, so the motion stands. Does anyone want to second or not? If I want to, but I will just
- to move this along. So I'll second. Thank you. All right.
- and we're ready for Commissioner Comments. Let's start with you, Commissioner Schlegel. Yeah, I mean,
- I think it's unfortunate that this smaller to mid-scale housing is going to be torn out for whatever
- purpose we can consider. That's going to be overpriced.
- I just looking through the neighborhood, I feel that there's a lot of other rentals and trying to get
- a single designation on its own past city council is I think it's snowballed to have a better chance,
- you know, where I just don't think it's going to be possible. And with the sheer amount of rentals that
- are there, I don't know if they'd be able to even contact some of those owners. Thank you. Commissioner
- Butler. Um, not like this house on the boat. No, that's
- Follow me on the second. Mr. Duffy. No comments. Mr. Duesner. I just noticed that this may just be an
- error. But just as an FYI, the packets, the digital version of the packets, are no longer listing who
- the petitioner is and some of those small details there. I think it would be good to have that full
- information
- digital versions. And I hate seeing this. It doesn't sound necessarily like when we're going to have
- the grounds to protect. Unless somebody sees an avenue here that I don't. And I noticed another error
- on the background.
- It's listed as 4202 East 10th Street. I just wanted to let you know for the record. I was thinking I
- was not going to say anything, but I will. I think the commission has said once again,
- in this position where we cannot do anything. This is a very nice house. It has those right proportions.
- It's going to use the term cute. I know it's not the proper term, but I think it is. It's a cute house.
- It has the right proportions, the side, the height. That house is difficult to replicate in today's
- architectural world.
- And I say that because it is hard to get things right. And also, I just want to say, you know, Bloomington
- is going through this crisis of affordability. And again, you just mentioned it, you know, Daniel, like
- there's a very good chance that it's not going to be affordable for most people. So, I mean, it's this
- like broken record, but we are in this position where we almost, we cannot do anything.
- And it's very frustrating. It's very, very frustrating. There's like, yeah, there's not much we can
- say or do, other than finding some historical data that reinforces our case. But yes, it is a shame.
- That's it. Thank you. Thank you. I agree. I have no further comments than that.
- sad to see such a nice example released. But let's move on and call the roll for DD 26-13. Vice Chair
- Baker? Yes. Commissioner
- Treasurer Butler? No. Commissioner Castaneda? Yes. Commissioner Duesner? Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes.
- Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. That motion passes 5-1. Motion passed. Thank you all. Let's then move on.
- I think after. I'm sorry? Yes. I'm sorry. Yes, of course. Today regarding the
- Today regarding the property located at 403 North Dunn, the Historic Preservation Commission declares
- that it got notice of proposed demolition and after today's discussion sees no need to review the plans
- any further and waives the rest of the demolition delay waiting period. The HPC may later recommend
- the property for historic designation to the common council. Thank you. All right, moving along then
- to old business. Noah, do you have any old business?
- Um, there's a few violations that are pretty close to coming up to their time. So, um, apparently one
- of them, which had received a COA, um, for some retroactive repairs at 1300 East first street, that's
- supposed to be resolved this week.
- Then if you remember the apartment building on South Fest, that's going to be coming up next month.
- So a couple of violations sort of reaching their end point. In terms of other old business, I don't
- know if anybody from the commission has anything to add. I was just thinking.
- terms of sending at least a message to city council about how we, and you could probably tell us every
- month the legality of how this, like if we could set a pattern where one of us says no, just because
- we can't do that, right? Knowing that you have enough votes to release the delay, but it sets a precedent
- That's what I'm just trying to do. I set up a precedent that there's been some objection to the case.
- Now that we all say yes every time because we have our hands tied. I don't know if that means anything.
- Is this going to be like forever? I just don't understand. You know, we are going to be trapped in this
- forever and ever.
- It's my understanding that actually creating the demolition delay was supposed to be the opportunity
- to stop just the random demolition of things. And so it is a very clunky tool. It's very difficult to
- meet the standards. But we do want the high standards, right, for what we retain. So I think you can
- always talk to your council person. You can always talk to your elected officials about your concern
- that this is not maybe doing what was hoped.
- in terms of actually preserving. It is giving the opportunity for discussion. And in some instances,
- as we've seen with Commissioner Butler, some successes in stopping things from being demolished. But
- the tool itself is very difficult to use successfully. A couple of things that I would bring up to that
- point as well. At the end of each year, the commission chair is supposed to issue a report to city council
- about the activities of their board and commission.
- In the past, I know with Sam, I believe with John Saunders as well, this has been a point they brought
- up, is their frustration with the demolition delay process. Also, we have a liaison on the city council
- at Sydney Zulek. So I know that she generally, you know, she's spoken with me and she's spoken with
- other members
- of the commission, sorry about some of both our mutual interests and concerns. So I think she should
- be available for discussion at least. Okay, thank you. I wanted to comment that I was there before demolition
- delay. I remember it was difficult to get it passed, but it was passed because neighborhoods were being
- depleted of their housing. So it's interesting.
- that we put a deliberate layer of administration on, which you don't normally do, you don't normally
- want to do. But we did it to inhibit just the willy-nilly taking houses and making parking lots in the
- community. You could take a house down in three days, get it permitted three days and it's gone. One
- gentleman did that and angered everyone in the city.
- and demolition delay passed. But now we're in this funny position, funny not ha-ha funny, that where
- we're giving up good examples of architecture and housing because of demolition delay and we have no
- path, no good path at the moment that would allow us to designate. And I'm sorry about that. I hope
- We can change it somehow, but yes, I'll talk to council persons and so on. For whatever good it will
- do, I hope it does. Keeping the pressure on, keeping influence may one day cause something to break.
- With that, old business, any more old business that we want to discuss this evening? If not, I'm gonna
- move on to new business. Anything you know that you
- I'd like to announce that this is going to be Melody's last meeting with us. I mean, you can tell it
- sounds like she would like to reapply, but it's going to be leaving on a sabbatical for this coming
- semester. So it will unfortunately not be with us through the remainder of the year. This has been my
- first term on historic preservation, and it was a
- term that had already begun by the time I jumped into it. So it's been a very short term. I have learned
- so much from all of you. And so thank you all for your patience and helping me understand the rules,
- what we can do, what we can't do, how to put words to some of these feelings about what is historical
- and important and what we can actually actively do.
- Thank you for inspiring me in that direction, and I just really appreciate all your service, and I'm
- sorry so much to leave you one person down for the fall, because I know that puts pressure on all of
- you in terms of quorum, and I am really sorry about that. I just want to say I appreciate so much everything
- that you all put into this, and I really hope to see you again in January.
- I don't want to use the word enjoyed, but appreciated having you here. And I'd like to ask you, and
- I hope you will be back. You're the kind of person we need back. Do you have any comments about the
- commission? Good, bad, indifferent that you have learned being here for the past year or more?
- Just I think the demolition delay is my least favorite part of the whole process. So that's a tagging
- on to the previous discussion we were having. I don't like feeling like my hands are tied and I have
- to vote in favor of these things that I don't want to see disappear. I have been glad to be a part of
- this because as you all know, I'm a renter and I have not been able to afford to buy a home in Bloomington.
- And I come to the commission from the perspective of a renter. And so I would say, I think having seen
- the commission's work from the inside, I can see how it does a lot to help maintain, help encourage
- things that are
- at least more affordable rents, smaller houses, the kind of housing stock that somebody like me depends
- on. As a renter and a non-driver, I need to be able to walk to town, need to be able to afford to live
- here. And I appreciate the fact that historic preservation does a lot to support that kind of community
- and that kind of architecture. I think that I've
- I really appreciate the packets that are put together that makes preparation for the meetings really
- easy. And it makes that not a super time consuming process, which I've told other people who might be
- interested in joining the commission. Here's kind of what the preparation looks like. But yeah, those
- are generally my comments. And I just appreciate everybody's time and effort on this.
- I know none of us are doing this except for Noah. None of us are doing this full time. So, yeah.
- Thank you. All right. Let's hear if we have any public comment online. There was one comment from Sabre
- Buyers just that she mentioned. If I can read that. Certainly.
- It was she had mentioned that she was backtracking and adding a comment about 216 North Lincoln Street
- that the owner would be happy to donate the limestone flower boxes. However, the demolition delay was
- applied for due to a major fire in that location. So the condition of the box is unknown. I let her
- know that I would pass that information along and read it during the comment period. Yeah, they were
- there yesterday.
- Again, I just said I would read the comment that was typed in here. I mean, not that it's necessarily
- germane one way or another, but I did see interior pics from the fire. You did what? I did see some
- interior pics from the fire. Oh. And yeah, the exterior appearance really sort of belies the damage
- inside. All right. With that, we're adjourned.