We'll begin with a call to order and roll call. Thank you. Renard Cross. Jack Baker. Here. And my apologies.
Treasurer Butler. Present. Commissioner Castaneda. Here. Commissioner Duesner. Here. Commissioner Duffy.
Here. Commissioner Golden.
Chair Hackard, Commissioner Schlegel. Here. We have quorum. All right. Thank you. We'll move on into
approval of minutes. Does anyone have any comments on minutes? Any motions for changes to the minutes?
Or a motion for approval of minutes? So moved. All right. Thank you. I'll second.
All right, thank you. We have a motion to approve the minutes and a second. Would you please call the
roll? Certainly. And yes vote would be to approve the minutes from the July 23 meeting. Jack Baker?
Yes. And I apologize, co-chair Baker, treasurer Butler. That's all right. Abstain. Bye. Commissioner
Castaneda? Yes.
Commissioner Duesner? Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. The minutes have been
approved. All right, thank you. Minutes are approved. Moving on to staff review, let me read a document
here we always read before.
For each, this is a procedure for certificates of appropriateness and demolition delays. For each item
on the agenda, the historic preservation program manager will first present a staff report. We will
then hear if the petitioner has any additional information about the request, followed by public comment.
Once public comment concludes, commissioners will be able to ask questions to staff, the petitioner,
and the public.
We ask that petitioners, the public, and commissioners refrain from speaking until addressed by the
chair unless a question is directly addressed to them. Following commissioner questions, the chair will
then entertain a motion from a commissioner regarding the petition. Once a motion is made, we will then
open up the discussion of the item for members of the commission only. Finally, once the commissioners
have each had a chance to speak, the commission will vote on the petition.
We encourage all commissioners, petitioners, and members of the public to be civil and respectful at
all times. I'll pass it to you, Noah. Thank you, Vice Chair Baker. So our first certificate
of appropriateness for the evening is COA 2651, 4837 West 6th Street in the Near West Side Historic
District. Built in the 1970s, 837 West 6th is a gable front single story house with a brick veneer facade,
aluminum siding,
and a porch pediment on iron posts. This house is located on a corner lot with a detached garage in
the rear. The request is for the installation of a wooden picket style fence at four feet of height
to meet UDO standards. The fence will have two gates, one in the north and one on the west side of the house.
off the city sidewalk and opening inward onto the walkway approaching from the north. The fence will
be placed according to the following boundaries, west side of the property, inside the property line
approximately to the city right of way, and north along the south side of the sidewalk. Each
side approximately three feet west of the property line shared with the neighboring house
at 831 West 6th Street. The enclosed area is to be 700 square feet. And staff approves COA 2641. The
proposed fence meets standards for placement, height, and materials. Thank you. Next item, COA 2652.
This is 400 West 7th Street, the Johnson Creamery Building.
petitioner is Greg Elgar. Johnson Creamery is a two-story rectangular, building is a two-story rectangular
structure with a stepped parapet roof built in 1913. The conglomeration of added components signify
the large success of the operation and the end result is a 35,000 square foot industrial complex. In
the early years at West 7th Street, a two-story structure was built to the east of the original building
conforming in shape and orientation to the railroad tracks. A small boiler room and smokestack were
added just to the north of this addition. Another structure around 1923 enclosing the mechanical operation
of the company was built to connect the boiler room to the building. A one-story detached garage was
built in the early 1920s to the west of the main building and was connected to the main building in
1927 with the completion of the ice house.
In 1949, the original smokestack was replaced with the current manifestation, which has been truncated
in the middle. The complex was further expanded in the 1950s with two-story additions to the southeast
and southwest, as well as the addition of a second story to the 1920s garage space. This request is
for the replacement of the acrylic Orion wall sign.
with a replacement that would be internally lit. Otherwise, same design, dimensions and attachment.
Any new holes that would be required would be made through mortar joints. And staff approved COA 2652.
Thank you. The new signage would imitate the existing signage in all respects, except for the addition
of internal lighting.
The plan makes use of existing mounting and the signage is located on a newer part of the building.
One more for me before I hand it over to you guys. COA 2653 for 112 West 6th Street in the Courthouse
Square Historic District. Petitioner here is also Greg Elgar. And the request is for the installation
of new 18-inch acrylic lettering over the storefront
to read edit and company. So this is the building that currently reads Bonfette, a notable neoclassical
commercial building with a limestone facade and staff approved COA 2653. The proposed lettering would
be mounted in the same location as existing lettering and would be very similar in design and materials
as well as fairly understated.
We'll move on then to commission review, starting with COA 26-50. OK. COA 26-50, 4701 South Eagleson
in the Elm Heights Historic District. Is anybody here present as petitioner? Mark, no.
My name is Martin Eagleboy, the homeowner. Hi. So 701 South Eagleson is a two-story limestone two-door
revival house with an overlapping gable entrance on the south end and a second story dormer window.
There are two additions with false half-timbering on the north and rear over an added cinder block garage.
This request
is looking to tear down and reconstruct an addition on the east side of the home, first level. This
addition is currently on top of the garage structure below with a partial coverage by a deck. The structure
has been compromised for water intrusion and this request would remove the first level portion of the
structure and replace most of it with a slightly larger addition.
This proposal would cover the rear entry to the deck, but not the second story windows. Limestone
wainscotting is proposed for the first floor rear addition. Is there anything else that the homeowner
would like to add? No, that sounds good. Okay. The recommendation from staff is for approval of COA
2650. Located on the rear of the property, but visible from the street, the proposed addition is
Appropriately scaled to the property and complements the original structure and side addition and design
and materials Judging from aerial imagery the side and rear additions appear to have been added in the
1960s Although the rear of the house has a long sorry has long had a second-story deck While the rear
door would be enclosed the plan calls for leaving the second-story windows uncut
Commissioner comments, questions at this point? Daniel, would you like to start us? It's questions?
Questions, yes. The one thing I was just going to ask Noah is if did the Elm Heights Historic District
wait? I see their guidelines. Sorry, I lost my word. But did they review it and did they provide
a recommendation? Yeah, I heard from one member of their design review committee who is actually in
the audience tonight.
And she had recommended approval as well. OK. But I had some questions about, I believe, the layout
of the limestone wainscoting and whether the proposed board and batten siding is going to resemble the
false half-timbering on the existing additions. OK. Perfect. Thank you, Noah. Commissioner Butler? No
questions.
Mr. Duffy? No questions. Mr. Duesner? No questions. No questions, thank you. All right. That leaves
the floor open for a motion. If someone is so inclined. Do you want to do a public comment? Do you want
to do a public comment? Oh, I'm sorry. That's my fault. I should have done that first. Yes. Would you
like to speak? Yes. This is for a public comment.
Yeah, I never did get the answers about my questions about the wainscoting going up the wall. I wasn't
sure that was up on the porch. It goes up to the windows. I wasn't sure that was. Is that what's intended
or is it just going to the bottom of the deck or is it going from the deck up to the windows? So from
what I had heard from the architect, it sounds like it's going to be above the cement garage, but
I'm sorry. From the deck level to the windows on the addition. So that's more 60s style? Like range
style? Is that the kind of weight toning you were thinking there? Because I said, we said we basically
support the, or I basically support the thing, but I had a little concern about the design there, if
it was appropriate to the house. The weight toning, not the addition.
That was the only question. Okay, well, I guess that's a comment too. Anyway, so you answered my question
that yes, it is going up to the top of the list. So, thank you. Would you state your name for the record?
Ah, okay. Virginia Southern. I live in Elm Heights Historic District and I'm on the Historic Review
Group. Thank you. Anyone else from the public? Anyone online?
All right, now we're looking for a motion, if you wish. I'll move that we approve. All right, we have
a motion for approval. Shouldn't we do Commissioner Comments first? I'm sorry? Shouldn't we do Commissioner
Comments first? We have a motion on the floor. You can second. We will do Commissioner Comments.
Once it's. Got you got. You second it all right. Let's start with Daniel. Commissioner Schlegel again
for comments. Yes, apparently I am second. I think it'd be good as long as it fits Elm Heights historic
district since.
We're here to support them. So if it falls into their regulations and Noah's review, I think I'd be
good with this. Thank you. Mr. Butler? Yeah, I mean, I think if Elm Heights is OK with this and if it
conforms to their standards, which I think it probably does, I think it would be maybe it seems like
the question wasn't necessarily answered as to what type of siting
It's going to have, is that true? Well, it's going to have board and batten siding. OK. Is that going
to match the style of the front? It's going to be similar to the style on the addition. I don't know
if they're going with the same paint colors that hasn't been answered yet, or similar. All right. That's
my only comments. Mr. Deffin?
Yes, I would support this proposal because the design review, which I'm happy that the design review
committee approves it, too. Just say in driving by, I couldn't see it at all from the front. The trees,
with the tree growth, of course, trees can be cut down. But it's really only visible from the adjoining
street. I mean, it's a corner property.
Just in case other people didn't see that, this view on the right is on the side street. And it's set
back. I don't think it's going to be any kind of a problem of obstructing the house at all. Thank you.
Commissioner Dues? No additional comments? I will support this project.
because they are supporting it. But I do agree with the fact that it is not clear enough what is happening.
Those questions that were brought up about how is this going to be finished, I think those are valid
questions because I don't see how that is going to be executed. Oh, this is new. OK. Thank you. OK.
That's all I have to say. Thank you for the additional information. I'm sorry, I forgot how many slides
there were. Thank you. It looks great. So did the commissioner comments? Well, I think we're ready to
call the roll. A yes would be affirmative for passing COA 26-50. OK, we'll go ahead and take a roll
call vote.
Vice Chair Baker? Yes. Treasurer Butler? Yes. Commissioner Capitanada? Yes. Commissioner Duesner? Yes.
Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. That motion passes 6-0. Thank you. Motion passes.
All right, before we move on, we will move on to demolition delay. But before we get into the first
one, I've been asked that staff and legal would like to make some explanatory comments. So we've received
or I received a question from a member of city council about the statement that is read after demolition
delay release that
I know Commissioner Butler has the language in front of him but says that the commission may designate
a property at a later point. And she was somewhat confused about that language I think understandably.
So we would like to come up with some revised language for that part of the statement. The answer to
what exactly that means is a little complicated because there's sort of a lot to what
release of demolition delay kind of means and what the one year period means and whether it's you know
partial demolition or full demolition but we will be coming up with something there to present to you.
Right and the question was also asked whether we were legally required to have this language because
it is kind of confusing right
And the answer is yes, it protects the city by putting on the record that the demolition permit is good
for one year. And after that one year, if the demolition is not done, that's when the commission could
go back and determine that they might want to designate it, right? So the permit does not last forever.
It's a finite period of time and everything resets if that permit elapses. It's the same thing with
the COA, right? You don't have the authority forever to do the thing that you got a limited time to do.
So it's important from a legal standpoint that that is clear whenever we give a demolition release so
that there's no expectation that someone can come back later and demolish it, or that it wouldn't be
designated later. Any questions? Thank you. Let's move in. I don't know if you would present DD25-1.
Okay, demolition delay 2511. This is for 216 North Lincoln Street. A petitioner is Ernest G. This is
for full demolition. 216 North Lincoln is a somewhat altered gable from bungalow built in 1920. The
house is fronted by a full width brick porch with two limestone planters and a limestone drain spout.
The windows and doors have been replaced and do not appear to be the original configuration. The house
has what appears to be an original basement garage door facing the alley to the south. This property
has frequently switched hands since the time it was built, passing from concrete mason Albert Funk to
stone sawyer Frank Riordan and his wife, the librarian Cora Riordan in 1923.
In the 1940s, the house was bought by the widow Helen Nunnally, who sold it in 1950, to bank teller
Robert Gray and his wife Liz. Liz began renting out spare rooms and sold the house in 1955 to Agnes
Martin, a widow who lived in the house until her death in 1977, renting out spare rooms. The
staff recommendation is for the release of Demolition Delay 2611.
Does the petitioner have anything that they would like to add? No, we don't. Thank you. All right.
Thank you. Well, let's go on to Commissioner Question. Any questions? Mr. Dealer? Mr. Duffy? I have
a question. Mr. Sandovales, when I read this and looked at the House,
I presume that the Sawyer made those limestone flower boxes. They look very homemade. I don't think
he would have had to have had any special fancy equipment other than just getting the materials there.
I guess I'd like to, well, first of all, ask you. You didn't see any notation about that.
Then my second question would be to Mr. C, if he maybe has talked to Steve Wyatt at BRI to see if he
might be interested in salvaging those.
I'm here on behalf of the petitioner, so I don't know for sure if he has or not, but I know he typically
does. Yes. And it's really fine with anything like that happening. Yeah. Yes, thank you. I appreciate
that. If I may ask, I don't want to speak out of turn, but BRI, have they had a look at the agenda for
this meeting? I just wanted to know what it is. I don't know. OK. I don't know if he has. He typically
does, Steve.
typically does, but I can't speak for him because I haven't talked to him. Thank you. Commissioner Butler?
No. Commissioner Schlegel? All right. Any more questions? I think we are ready to put a motion on the
floor if you so desire. These are always hard. Any public comments?
Yes. Would anyone like, from the public, would like to speak to this demolition delight? Anyone online?
Very no one? I'm sorry, were you? Yeah, I was just going to comment. The only thing I was- Adonify yourself
again. I'm sorry. Virginia Southern.
I was just going to comment on the limestone boxes. I was going to say the same thing. And I actually
know several houses that have the hangers sticking out, but their boxes are gone. So there is a need
around town if there are original pieces. I'm sure there's some people that would like to replace them
back on the truck. I guess what happens is they're wet. They fill up with water in the winter, and then
there goes the limestone. So yeah, they're missing on a lot of houses. So those are great.
That's the only comment. Thank you. All right, now we're ready for a motion. I would put a motion on
the floor to having a senior moment. The motion to agree with the comments from the staff and a motion
to release DD 26-11.
All right, let's call a roll. Comments, sorry. Comments again, please. It's the kind of small housing
stock with local character that I like to see torn down, especially when, I mean, I can't see what it
looks like on the inside, but I mean, somebody's obviously put a new roof on this in recent years. It's
just a shame.
I realize that goes beyond the purview of the HPC, but I always like to take the opportunity to mention
it. Yeah, thank you. Mr. Duffy? No. No comments. Mr. Butler? No. Mr. Schlage? I agree with what Mr.
Duesner said. I think it's a shame. So a yes vote is for releasing DD 2611, if you'd call the roll.
Certainly.
We'll go down with the roll call vote here. Vice Chair Baker? Yes. Treasurer Butler? Yes. Commissioner
Castaneda? Yes. Commissioner Duesner? Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. That
motion passes 6-0. All right. Motion passes. I think I have a document. We normally read like anything.
Oh, John's reading good.
Today, regarding the property located at 216 North Lincoln Street, the Historic Preservation Commission
declares that it got notice of proposed demolition and after today's discussion, sees no need to review
the plans any further and waives the rest of the demolition delay waiting period. The HPC may later
recommend the property for historic designation to the Common Council. Thank you. All right, let's move
on to DD 26.
This is Demolition Delay 2612 for 3420 East Adair Lane, which is a modernist. This is a partial demolition.
I should preface. A modernist 1964 A-frame with a brick and frame construction, a floor-to-ceiling window
taking up half of the street facing N Gable. A vertical wood shed stands to the east of the building
under a shed roof that extends from the roof of the house.
The proposal for partial demolition includes alterations to the patio and entry on the west ledge facing
the house. Demolition of the existing shed and carport and replacement with an extended carport and
slightly larger vertical, vertically sided wood shed slightly further from the house.
and the addition of a second story window on the west elevation. Walk through some of these. From 1964
until 2024, this house was the residence of Stein and Leon Levy.
and later Stein's second husband, Albert Koch. Born in Germany in 1927, Stein's family fled to the US
in 1933. Stein was an active member in the NAACP and a practicing developmental psychologist into her
80s, specializing in autism treatment. Stein's first husband, Leon Levy, taught in the IU psychology
department for 24 years, serving as the director of clinical training for nine of those.
Leon authored over 60 published articles and was awarded several HHS grants for research on clinical
practice. He moved to Maryland in 1978. In 1983, Stein remarried Indiana University bacteriologist Arthur
Koch. Over the course of his career, Koch authored over 250 papers and received numerous awards, including
a Guggenheim Fellowship, a Rockefeller Scholar Award,
a welcome research travel grant and a U.S. Public Health Service Award. The recommendation from staff
is the release of demolition delay 26-12. The proposed alterations are sympathetic to the house's design
and the design of the existing carport and shed. The changes to the west of the house would be fairly
minor. And I will say I did receive a comment from a neighbor who expressed concern about the
septic field at this property, which after some recent work has apparently been leaking into the water
supply of the neighboring property and wanted to know what the effect of, you know, the changes proposed
to the house and carport might be.
Have any comments you'd like to make? Yes, I do. I would like to note that the carport and the porch,
as you can see in the photos on the left, are failing significantly structurally, and they need remediation.
So that's part of why we are redoing these areas. That's all. Thank you. Public comment on this?
Please stand and give us your name. My name is Susan and my mom lives next door and I think the house
is beautiful and I think the people who lived there were very nice. I grew up with a daughter who grew
up in the house but I am not concerned with the renovations themselves. I'm concerned with the removal
of the septic
field and the septic holding tank. I just want to make sure that it's very carefully monitored so that
it doesn't leak into my mother's property. My mother was next door. She's 93. She's a widow. She's recovering
from a stroke. So I just want to make sure that her health and safety goes into consideration. It's
not just the beauty of the home. It's also the removal of the septic field
which I'm sure you might want to explain to them what a septic field is if they don't know. I myself
didn't know and I had to research it. And it said in the United States EPA that the removal of a septic
field and the removal of a septic holding tank is a very sensitive issue and needs to be handled with
care and carefully monitored. So that's my concern for my mother who lives there.
next door and whose property not only borders the property, but is under the property. So anything that
might leak might leak into her property, which is my concern. But I think the house is beautiful. It's
always been beautiful. I'm just concerned about the removal of the septic tank, septic holding tank,
and the removal of all of the different
little tubes and pipes under the ground contained which of the 70 or maybe, is it 75 year old septic
field? I'm not sure if it's been years or 75. Since 1953 maybe, 1957. Could be. And I'm also concerned
about the removal of the water pipe that seems to be
belonging to them that seems to be in my mom's yard because that would involve digging up my mom's yard
and I want to make sure that's handled with care as well. Thirdly, this isn't a health and safety issue
but the border itself, I want to make sure before any digging begins that the property border between
the two properties is agreed upon with both surveyors so before they start removing my mother's trees or
the landscape that was designed by Designscape because my parents spent a lot of money on it and they
thought it was on their property and if it's not on their property, I understand completely, but if
it is on my mom's property, of course, I wouldn't want it to be destroyed. It seems to me that the proposed
plan to have the
the new carport very, very close to the property's edge, perhaps within the, not on the border exactly,
maybe, but certainly within the setback area. So we just want to make sure that we are all on the same
page as to where the property border is, agreed upon by both the both parties' surveyors and before
the demolition
I'm sorry to take up so much time. And I've done this before, but I just want to make sure that my mom's
protected. Thank you. She lives alone in her home. My dad died in 2018. And it's hard enough to live
alone when you're that age. But to live alone with a stroke is even harder. And to live alone
in a construction site is going to be hard. But as long as we know that my mom can put up a fence or
something and protect herself from that on her property, then
That's okay. I just want to make sure health and safety is considered. Yes, thank you. Appreciate the
comments. I can give a rough idea of what a septic field is to people who might not know, and that is
it's run off into, it's on a private property where one runs the effluent, the sewage from the house into
piping and into a settling basin on the property, unconnected to the city sewer, and common in the country.
I grew up with one. And it uses the ground to soak in some of the liquids and the settling tank,
the solids. And I know they have to be cleaned every so often. And I don't know the life of one, but
I understand they can get quite old and they can crack.
Am I getting at it, or do you have more comments, please? Yeah, that's exactly how they function.
I believe, and for the record, I will be abstaining from voting because this is coming from my office.
And Erica is representing, and she's the lead designer on this project. But I can add to your comments
about the septic field. Yes, it's an old septic field.
all septic fields have the potential to fail. In this case, there is a city connection to it, and I
believe we're making the effort to tap into the city. And this septic field will be abandoned and carefully
taken care of. So I just wanted to let you know that we're taking care of this very carefully and taking
into consideration all the matters that you just mentioned about your mother.
The other concern is that on the other side- I'm sorry, we are done now with public comment. Oh, I think-
I certainly appreciate what you had to say. And there was another question I believe you had. I'm not
retaining it at the moment. I wanted to try to answer you though. I think it was about property loans.
I was just going to talk about the water, the public, the water behind the property. I want to make
sure when the- I want to confirm that when the removal of the septic field and the septic tank are taking
place that none of the
leakage goes into the public water where children play and where animals drink. Yeah, absolutely. All
that procedure has very strict requirements to do for it to happen. It will be carefully done. Is there
someone monitoring it, overseeing it?
I cannot tell you who that person is, but I'm sure there is. I mean, we have a whole... I believe the
application said city and Bloomington utilities asked to... Yeah, cities involved as well. Thank you.
That's what I wanted to sort of give you a hard answer on this. This commission is not strictly concerned
with that, but we'll be passing it along to the proper people that
would be involved with. We wouldn't normally do property lines, that sort of thing. That's not our purview.
And septic systems, but I want to give you sort of a rough answer on a couple of things. But these would
go back through NOAA and go back into city divisions. And they would have to control then how things
are being dug, how it's being handled. And they would control how the septic system. But if it's being
abandoned, we have no real issue there.
But we have a different criteria we have to use here. But I hope we gave you some answer on your issues.
I think at this point, we're ready to ask questions from commissioners. Melanie, let's start with you
this time. I was just going to ask, and you've already answered,
who will be the responsible body for overseeing this. And just to make sure that, can we make sure before
we finish our discussion of this, that the petitioner, well, the neighbor of the petitioner feels that
she has a good sense of who will be monitoring this. But City of Bloomington, you've already answered
that question, so my question is answered. Mr. Duffy. No questions. Mr. Butler. Mr. Schlegel.
I have no further comments. Let's at this point open the floor to motion. I'll move we release DD 2612.
I'll second that. Thank you. Let's go within the Commission of Comments.
Let's start with you again. No further comments. This seems like it's been well thought out and a bunch
of the questions have been answered, whether they're in our review or not. So I think this is a responsible
project. I have no further comments.
There's a motion on the floor on DD 2612 that has also been seconded. We'll take a roll call vote. Vice
Chair Baker? Yes. Treasurer Butler? Yes. Commissioner Castaneda? Yes. Commissioner Duesner? Yes. Commissioner
Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. That passes five
One, zero, that one being an abstention. All right. Motion passes. Do I need to read the release of
that? Yes. Even though it's a partial. Today, regarding the property located at some address. Oh, 3420
Nista Dayer.
3420 East Adair, the Historic Preservation Commission declares that it got notice of proposed partial
demolition and after today's discussion, sees no need to review the plans any further and waives the
rest of the demolition delay waiting period. The HPC may later recommend the property for historic
designation to the common council. All right, thank you. Then let's move along to demolition delay 26-13.
By demolition delay 2613, this is 403 North Dunn Street. Petitioner is Ernest G. 403 North Dunn Street
is a one and a half story cross gabled bungalow with a full width brick front porch with tapered wood
posts. Original three over one and five over one windows and shake siding on the upper level. The house
was likely built in the early 1920s and no later than 1927.
replacing an earlier shotgun-style house. While it is difficult to determine the first occupant and
exact year the house was built, a firefighter named Albert Bender was the first owner-occupant of the
property in 1925 and seems like a likely candidate for the builder. Like earlier occupants of the lot,
the Benders only stayed for a couple of years, and by 1960, the house had been home to more than 10
households,
of retirees, teachers, stone planers, and university employees. From 1960 until 1995, the house was
owned by mailman Howard Shiflett Jr. and his wife Peggy. A veteran of the Korean War, Harold, I'm sorry,
not Howard Shiflett, Harold Shiflett. A veteran of the Korean War, Harold also volunteered as a baseball
and football referee.
From 1953 through 1960, the house was home to the family of John P. Sheehan and his wife Eleanor. Of
all the residents, Sheehan has left the largest record, the head producer of IU Radio and Television
from 1953 to his death in 1968. Sheehan was a popular speech and media professor and announcer and host
on Bloomington and IU radio and TV programs. Described by his department chair as someone of his showman,
Sheehan hosted several radio shows,
announced events including Little 500 and Campus Quiz Bowl and performed in university theater productions.
After his untimely death in 1968, the School of Journalism, a School of Journalism scholarship
was established in his name. The staff recommendation is for the release of Demolition Delay 2613. Generally,
When a property is evaluated for its association with a significant individual, and this is how it's
handled for national register criterion B, so that's sort of my background here, it is compared to other
buildings associated with that person's accomplishments and its significance for that person's contributions
is considered. As was the case with the home of David A. Randall, director of the Lilly Library at 326
South Eagleson,
which is another demolition delay that we considered earlier this year. This was a residence of an individual
who had a significant impact on the community, whose work is more closely associated with another existing
property. In this case, the radio television slash fine arts building at Indiana University,
built in 1963, which is a closely associated with a role that John P. Sheehan played in shepherding
IU's radio and television program.
For one of his Bloomington residences to also be eligible for its association, the significance of this
house to his career accomplishments would have to be established. It is possible that further research
could yield proof of an association between this house and Sheehan's career, but so far it has not.
Thank you. Does the petitioner wish to speak?
We don't have anything to add, thank you. All right, thank you. I did add a comment about 216 North
Lincoln to the chat, if you guys want to read that, but I don't have anything about Dunn Street.
All right, thank you. At this point, is there anything anyone from the audience or online would like
to say? Hearing nothing?
We'll move on to Commissioner questions. No questions. No questions. Commissioner Guzman. Is the front
of that porch severely bowed, or is that just a bad photograph? I think that's just whatever skew from
the... This was a Google Stradia photo. It's got like the fish. Mr. Duffy. No questions. Commissioner Butler.
Mr. Schlegel. As usual, I struggle with these. And part of it is, I know I'm not going to be as famous
as the guy that lived here or anything, but for me, most of the time, I do stuff at my house as much
as I would do it at a place of work. So his connection would be, this would be where a lot of his, maybe
he didn't do the physical work, but maybe a lot of it came from here. So that's where I'm struggling is,
it feels like kind of like wholesale destruction of local homes or what made Bloomington Bloomington
or the people like this IU professor but I also understand that's incredibly I mean I have no doubt
Noah's done a great amount of research so I'm not going to question that whatsoever and I know that
can be incredibly difficult because it's not documented it's not like someone unless his journals he
wrote down this is what I did at my house and then sent it at work
we're not going to know. So it's just, it's a shame. Thank you. Well, at this point we are open to a
motion, a number of ways we could go here, but one would like to put a motion on the floor. No,
Have you, in your research, I mean, do you feel like you've fairly well exhausted everything, or do
you feel that there's anything left where you can? So, I'll sort of walk you through the main places
I checked. I started with newspapers for this one, which even through the time period where the Sheehan's
lived here, there will be occasionally references to
events at the house, whether people are coming or going from town. The one bit of work that I saw referenced
by a resident of this house in the newspaper was his son came up with an idea for a dog-powered car
that he wanted to sell to the police. After that, I checked out IU Archives, which has a couple
of collections related to radio television and to John Sheehan more specifically.
I saw information, a handful of newspaper clippings in there, letters related to his promotion to producer,
stuff from his funeral. I didn't really see any references to things taking place at his house. He lived
here for approximately like most of the first half of his
time in IU, then he moved to another house up in, not Mailock Heights, but other neighborhood up there.
It's not quite as cool as this one. Yeah, I did it. Most of the extracurricular stuff not related to
RTV was stuff that he did with other radio stations or with community theaters, what it looked like.
I will put a motion on the floor with some comments attached. The motion is to release DD 26-13, the
comments that if someone feels strongly about trying to designate, motions can be withdrawn. I could
withdraw that motion. But I'm doubting that with the information we have, it would meet the criteria
for designation, so the motion stands. Does anyone want to second or not? If I want to, but I will just
to move this along. So I'll second. Thank you. All right.
and we're ready for Commissioner Comments. Let's start with you, Commissioner Schlegel. Yeah, I mean,
I think it's unfortunate that this smaller to mid-scale housing is going to be torn out for whatever
purpose we can consider. That's going to be overpriced.
I just looking through the neighborhood, I feel that there's a lot of other rentals and trying to get
a single designation on its own past city council is I think it's snowballed to have a better chance,
you know, where I just don't think it's going to be possible. And with the sheer amount of rentals that
are there, I don't know if they'd be able to even contact some of those owners. Thank you. Commissioner
Butler. Um, not like this house on the boat. No, that's
Follow me on the second. Mr. Duffy. No comments. Mr. Duesner. I just noticed that this may just be an
error. But just as an FYI, the packets, the digital version of the packets, are no longer listing who
the petitioner is and some of those small details there. I think it would be good to have that full
information
digital versions. And I hate seeing this. It doesn't sound necessarily like when we're going to have
the grounds to protect. Unless somebody sees an avenue here that I don't. And I noticed another error
on the background.
It's listed as 4202 East 10th Street. I just wanted to let you know for the record. I was thinking I
was not going to say anything, but I will. I think the commission has said once again,
in this position where we cannot do anything. This is a very nice house. It has those right proportions.
It's going to use the term cute. I know it's not the proper term, but I think it is. It's a cute house.
It has the right proportions, the side, the height. That house is difficult to replicate in today's
architectural world.
And I say that because it is hard to get things right. And also, I just want to say, you know, Bloomington
is going through this crisis of affordability. And again, you just mentioned it, you know, Daniel, like
there's a very good chance that it's not going to be affordable for most people. So, I mean, it's this
like broken record, but we are in this position where we almost, we cannot do anything.
And it's very frustrating. It's very, very frustrating. There's like, yeah, there's not much we can
say or do, other than finding some historical data that reinforces our case. But yes, it is a shame.
That's it. Thank you. Thank you. I agree. I have no further comments than that.
sad to see such a nice example released. But let's move on and call the roll for DD 26-13. Vice Chair
Baker? Yes. Commissioner
Treasurer Butler? No. Commissioner Castaneda? Yes. Commissioner Duesner? Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes.
Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. That motion passes 5-1. Motion passed. Thank you all. Let's then move on.
I think after. I'm sorry? Yes. I'm sorry. Yes, of course. Today regarding the
Today regarding the property located at 403 North Dunn, the Historic Preservation Commission declares
that it got notice of proposed demolition and after today's discussion sees no need to review the plans
any further and waives the rest of the demolition delay waiting period. The HPC may later recommend
the property for historic designation to the common council. Thank you. All right, moving along then
to old business. Noah, do you have any old business?
Um, there's a few violations that are pretty close to coming up to their time. So, um, apparently one
of them, which had received a COA, um, for some retroactive repairs at 1300 East first street, that's
supposed to be resolved this week.
Then if you remember the apartment building on South Fest, that's going to be coming up next month.
So a couple of violations sort of reaching their end point. In terms of other old business, I don't
know if anybody from the commission has anything to add. I was just thinking.
terms of sending at least a message to city council about how we, and you could probably tell us every
month the legality of how this, like if we could set a pattern where one of us says no, just because
we can't do that, right? Knowing that you have enough votes to release the delay, but it sets a precedent
That's what I'm just trying to do. I set up a precedent that there's been some objection to the case.
Now that we all say yes every time because we have our hands tied. I don't know if that means anything.
Is this going to be like forever? I just don't understand. You know, we are going to be trapped in this
forever and ever.
It's my understanding that actually creating the demolition delay was supposed to be the opportunity
to stop just the random demolition of things. And so it is a very clunky tool. It's very difficult to
meet the standards. But we do want the high standards, right, for what we retain. So I think you can
always talk to your council person. You can always talk to your elected officials about your concern
that this is not maybe doing what was hoped.
in terms of actually preserving. It is giving the opportunity for discussion. And in some instances,
as we've seen with Commissioner Butler, some successes in stopping things from being demolished. But
the tool itself is very difficult to use successfully. A couple of things that I would bring up to that
point as well. At the end of each year, the commission chair is supposed to issue a report to city council
about the activities of their board and commission.
In the past, I know with Sam, I believe with John Saunders as well, this has been a point they brought
up, is their frustration with the demolition delay process. Also, we have a liaison on the city council
at Sydney Zulek. So I know that she generally, you know, she's spoken with me and she's spoken with
other members
of the commission, sorry about some of both our mutual interests and concerns. So I think she should
be available for discussion at least. Okay, thank you. I wanted to comment that I was there before demolition
delay. I remember it was difficult to get it passed, but it was passed because neighborhoods were being
depleted of their housing. So it's interesting.
that we put a deliberate layer of administration on, which you don't normally do, you don't normally
want to do. But we did it to inhibit just the willy-nilly taking houses and making parking lots in the
community. You could take a house down in three days, get it permitted three days and it's gone. One
gentleman did that and angered everyone in the city.
and demolition delay passed. But now we're in this funny position, funny not ha-ha funny, that where
we're giving up good examples of architecture and housing because of demolition delay and we have no
path, no good path at the moment that would allow us to designate. And I'm sorry about that. I hope
We can change it somehow, but yes, I'll talk to council persons and so on. For whatever good it will
do, I hope it does. Keeping the pressure on, keeping influence may one day cause something to break.
With that, old business, any more old business that we want to discuss this evening? If not, I'm gonna
move on to new business. Anything you know that you
I'd like to announce that this is going to be Melody's last meeting with us. I mean, you can tell it
sounds like she would like to reapply, but it's going to be leaving on a sabbatical for this coming
semester. So it will unfortunately not be with us through the remainder of the year. This has been my
first term on historic preservation, and it was a
term that had already begun by the time I jumped into it. So it's been a very short term. I have learned
so much from all of you. And so thank you all for your patience and helping me understand the rules,
what we can do, what we can't do, how to put words to some of these feelings about what is historical
and important and what we can actually actively do.
Thank you for inspiring me in that direction, and I just really appreciate all your service, and I'm
sorry so much to leave you one person down for the fall, because I know that puts pressure on all of
you in terms of quorum, and I am really sorry about that. I just want to say I appreciate so much everything
that you all put into this, and I really hope to see you again in January.
I don't want to use the word enjoyed, but appreciated having you here. And I'd like to ask you, and
I hope you will be back. You're the kind of person we need back. Do you have any comments about the
commission? Good, bad, indifferent that you have learned being here for the past year or more?
Just I think the demolition delay is my least favorite part of the whole process. So that's a tagging
on to the previous discussion we were having. I don't like feeling like my hands are tied and I have
to vote in favor of these things that I don't want to see disappear. I have been glad to be a part of
this because as you all know, I'm a renter and I have not been able to afford to buy a home in Bloomington.
And I come to the commission from the perspective of a renter. And so I would say, I think having seen
the commission's work from the inside, I can see how it does a lot to help maintain, help encourage
things that are
at least more affordable rents, smaller houses, the kind of housing stock that somebody like me depends
on. As a renter and a non-driver, I need to be able to walk to town, need to be able to afford to live
here. And I appreciate the fact that historic preservation does a lot to support that kind of community
and that kind of architecture. I think that I've
I really appreciate the packets that are put together that makes preparation for the meetings really
easy. And it makes that not a super time consuming process, which I've told other people who might be
interested in joining the commission. Here's kind of what the preparation looks like. But yeah, those
are generally my comments. And I just appreciate everybody's time and effort on this.
I know none of us are doing this except for Noah. None of us are doing this full time. So, yeah.
Thank you. All right. Let's hear if we have any public comment online. There was one comment from Sabre
Buyers just that she mentioned. If I can read that. Certainly.
It was she had mentioned that she was backtracking and adding a comment about 216 North Lincoln Street
that the owner would be happy to donate the limestone flower boxes. However, the demolition delay was
applied for due to a major fire in that location. So the condition of the box is unknown. I let her
know that I would pass that information along and read it during the comment period. Yeah, they were
there yesterday.
Again, I just said I would read the comment that was typed in here. I mean, not that it's necessarily
germane one way or another, but I did see interior pics from the fire. You did what? I did see some
interior pics from the fire. Oh. And yeah, the exterior appearance really sort of belies the damage
inside. All right. With that, we're adjourned.