WEBVTT 00:00:00.546 --> 00:00:29.950 - All right, I'd like to bring the Thursday, November 12th 00:00:30.146 --> 00:00:39.082 - 2026 Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission meeting to order. Can we have the roll call? Certainly. 00:00:39.082 --> 00:00:47.933 - We'll go ahead and take a roll call. Members present? Renard Cross? Jack Baker? Here. John Butler? Here. 00:00:47.933 --> 00:00:56.953 - And I apologize. Commissioner Castaneda? Commissioner Duffy? Here. Commissioner Golden? Here. Commissioner 00:00:56.953 --> 00:00:58.302 - Schlegel? Here. 00:00:59.170 --> 00:01:07.878 - It is my understanding we have quorum. All right, thank you. The first order of business is the approval 00:01:07.878 --> 00:01:16.005 - of minutes for October 22nd. Does anyone have any questions or comments? Move to approve. Second. 00:01:16.005 --> 00:01:24.298 - All right. That's approved. OK, we've got a motion on the floor to approve the minutes from October 00:01:24.298 --> 00:01:28.030 - 22nd. Roll call vote. Vice Chair Baker? Yes. 00:01:28.898 --> 00:01:37.327 - Chair Butler? Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Golden? Yes. Commissioner Schlegel? Yes. Minutes 00:01:37.327 --> 00:01:45.517 - from October 22nd are approved. All right, now Noah, take it away. All right, we're moving on to staff 00:01:45.517 --> 00:01:53.548 - approved certificates of appropriateness, starting with COA 2683. This is for 703 West 6th Street, a 00:01:53.548 --> 00:01:58.558 - contributing property in the Near West Side Historic District. 00:01:59.042 --> 00:02:06.467 - petitioner is John Sherby. 703 West 6th Street is a turn-of-the-century two-story house with a hipped 00:02:06.467 --> 00:02:14.183 - roof, brick front porch with square posts, a mix of two-over-one and one-over-one windows, a full window, 00:02:14.183 --> 00:02:21.536 - craftsman-style front door, and weatherboard shingle siding. There's a large one-story rear addition 00:02:21.536 --> 00:02:25.758 - from the early 20th century and a carriage house on site. 00:02:26.370 --> 00:02:32.562 - Aside from the replacement siding, the house demonstrates a high degree of historic integrity. This 00:02:32.562 --> 00:02:38.815 - request is for the conversion of the house into three new units, which will involve several exterior 00:02:38.815 --> 00:02:45.193 - alterations and rehabilitation projects, including the replacement of the siding with broad horizontal 00:02:45.193 --> 00:02:51.384 - fiber cement siding, three building of the exterior portion of the chimney, and several alterations 00:02:51.384 --> 00:02:55.966 - to the fenestration at the rear of the building, including replacement of 00:02:57.026 --> 00:03:06.926 - Several windows with the same size and configuration. Relocation of the rear entrance from the south 00:03:06.926 --> 00:03:16.924 - to the southern edge of the west side of the house and removal of two windows at the southeast corner 00:03:16.924 --> 00:03:18.590 - of the addition. 00:03:26.178 --> 00:03:32.455 - staff approved COA 2683. The proposed alterations would leave the appearance of the house largely the 00:03:32.455 --> 00:03:38.977 - same from the public way, with the exception of the replacement of the ahistorical asphalt shingle siding 00:03:38.977 --> 00:03:45.500 - and several changes to re-fenestration. Care will be taken to rebuild the exterior portion of the chimney 00:03:45.500 --> 00:03:52.084 - and to repair and retain historic wood windows that are in fair condition. The Near West Side Neighborhood 00:03:52.084 --> 00:03:54.238 - Association provided the following 00:03:55.362 --> 00:04:00.664 - This is one of the larger homes in the neighborhood and in a prominent location. Since it is on a corner 00:04:00.664 --> 00:04:05.916 - lot, we look forward to seeing its exterior brought back to its historic appearance. We're pleased that 00:04:05.916 --> 00:04:11.118 - the windows, including the divided light windows, will be retained and repaired, that the chimney will 00:04:11.118 --> 00:04:16.168 - be rebuilt after its removal. Since this is one of the more prominent homes in the neighborhood, we 00:04:16.168 --> 00:04:21.470 - expect it may have original siding and may still be very usable. So we would hope that this is explored. 00:04:22.466 --> 00:04:30.747 - It appears that the only significant change of the exterior is at the rear of the home, and we do not 00:04:30.747 --> 00:04:39.190 - find any issues with what is being planned for this area. Next up, COA 2684 or 618 South Valentine Road 00:04:39.190 --> 00:04:47.877 - in the Elm Heights Historic District. Petitioner is Kevin Killeen. 618 South Valentine Road is a two-story 00:04:47.877 --> 00:04:51.774 - colonial brick revival house with a hipped roof 00:04:52.290 --> 00:04:59.069 - side entry vestibule, and one-story additions at the rear and side of the property. The property has 00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:06.116 - a limestone urn set on a brick post near the driveway, and the house exhibits a high degree of integrity 00:05:06.116 --> 00:05:13.164 - overall. The request, we would like to propose a fence in the backyard only. It would be wooden to match 00:05:13.164 --> 00:05:19.876 - the neighbor's fence, which you can see in the bottom right-hand corner of this slide. I will begin 00:05:19.876 --> 00:05:21.822 - at the midpoint of our house 00:05:22.178 --> 00:05:28.870 - will then extend to the backyard where it will not be between a public street and the view of the house. 00:05:28.870 --> 00:05:35.307 - Staff recommends, sorry, staff approves COA 2684. The rear privacy fence proposed would be made of a 00:05:35.307 --> 00:05:42.063 - design of materials that are acceptable by Elm Heights Historic District guidelines that were not obscure 00:05:42.063 --> 00:05:46.078 - any significant historic features visible from the public way. 00:05:51.842 --> 00:05:59.643 - Next up, COA 2685. This is for 1115 North College Avenue. Petitioner is Chris Bomba. 1115 North College 00:05:59.643 --> 00:06:07.445 - Avenue is a cross-gabled pre-classical house with a half-width front porch and side entrance with stone 00:06:07.445 --> 00:06:15.246 - columns, limestone siding on the first floor, shake siding on the gables, and a second story bay window 00:06:15.246 --> 00:06:16.446 - facing college. 00:06:17.634 --> 00:06:24.315 - Vase represents an interesting transition between the free classical style of the 1910s and emerging 00:06:24.315 --> 00:06:30.996 - craftsman elements, including gable roof braces and a bungalow-like front profile. The windows are a 00:06:30.996 --> 00:06:38.206 - mix of older woodstache windows and newer replacements. The front door has been replaced with a contemporary 00:06:38.206 --> 00:06:45.020 - fiberglass model. This request consists of several proposed changes, one replacing the current windows 00:06:45.020 --> 00:06:46.078 - with windows of 00:06:47.042 --> 00:06:58.081 - the same size and style. However, these would be vinyl windows, as well as the removal of the storm 00:06:58.081 --> 00:07:09.451 - windows and the replacement of the existing replacement front door with a different craftsman inspired 00:07:09.451 --> 00:07:14.750 - model. This is another staff approved COA 2685. 00:07:15.682 --> 00:07:22.254 - The windows at 1115 North College are a mix of older one over one wood windows, which would appear to 00:07:22.254 --> 00:07:28.954 - be from the first half of the 20th century. I'm sorry, I'm missing some photos that are in your packet, 00:07:28.954 --> 00:07:35.461 - which I should have included here. The front door is a newer replacement from some point in the last 00:07:35.461 --> 00:07:42.098 - 30 years. Black and white photographs by a Bloomington photographer, Charles Gilbert Shaw, held by the 00:07:42.098 --> 00:07:43.966 - Monroe County History Center 00:07:44.546 --> 00:07:50.470 - confirmed that the house has the same configuration of one over one windows in the 20s or 30s, but did 00:07:50.470 --> 00:07:56.336 - not provide visual evidence of the original front door. While there is not available evidence of what 00:07:56.336 --> 00:08:02.375 - the original front door looked like, the proposed replacement, a modern take on a transitional classical 00:08:02.375 --> 00:08:08.241 - slash craftsman door, is not an inappropriate style for the house, and would be less incongruous than 00:08:08.241 --> 00:08:12.382 - the current front door. Many of the existing windows are in poor shape, 00:08:13.954 --> 00:08:19.610 - Some features like rotted sales and broken cords are replaceable though. The replacement of windows 00:08:19.610 --> 00:08:25.322 - with the new material is considered acceptable under Secretary of Interior's standards if the visual 00:08:25.322 --> 00:08:30.977 - impact will be minimal. Because none of the windows on 1115 North College have mountains and all of 00:08:30.977 --> 00:08:36.803 - the frames are simple, thin, and white, the overall impression of the proposed replacement windows and 00:08:36.803 --> 00:08:38.782 - staff opinion would be negligible. 00:08:44.066 --> 00:08:52.852 - Next item, Certificate of Appropriateness 2686. This is for 108 South College Street. Sorry, 00:08:52.852 --> 00:09:02.394 - Rogers Street. In the Greater Prospect Hill Historic District, the petitioner is Yao-Ling Wong. This 00:09:02.394 --> 00:09:12.502 - is a severely altered 1920s wood frame four square with replacement windows, vinyl siding, a rear addition 00:09:12.502 --> 00:09:14.014 - and a two story 00:09:15.874 --> 00:09:27.191 - deck slash fire escape. This request would be for the addition of two wooden posts and a cross beam 00:09:27.191 --> 00:09:38.847 - to the existing deck, which staff has approved because this alteration to an existing nonhistoric fire 00:09:38.847 --> 00:09:44.958 - escape slash deck would be fairly minor and would not 00:09:45.506 --> 00:09:56.841 - disrupt the facade or obscure damage any historic features because it's nonetheless an inconspicuously 00:09:56.841 --> 00:10:08.286 - visible change to the building from the public way. It does require historic review. Next up, COA 2687. 00:10:16.226 --> 00:10:27.489 - That's right. Thank you. I printed this one out. So this is for A15 in the West, West Fourth Street 00:10:27.489 --> 00:10:39.429 - in the Greater Prospect Hill Historic District. I did have to go back and amend the packet online because 00:10:39.429 --> 00:10:43.934 - some of the materials for COA 26 and 87 00:10:44.930 --> 00:10:54.276 - and 2688 were swapped. They're both fairly similar projects. So I'll continue with 87. 815 West 4th 00:10:54.276 --> 00:11:03.809 - Street is a wood frame T plan cottage with a sunroom on the side portion of the porch. Diamond shaped 00:11:03.809 --> 00:11:13.342 - window opens from the front roof cable. The porch railing consists of wooden panels and square posts. 00:11:14.178 --> 00:11:23.315 - This request is for the installation of a south-facing rooftop solar array. Staff approved COA 2687. 00:11:23.315 --> 00:11:32.361 - The proposed solar installation is set close to the roof surface and pitch at the rear of the house 00:11:32.361 --> 00:11:41.859 - and would not obscure or damage any historic features. So hopefully now that that's all clear, COA 2688. 00:11:41.859 --> 00:11:44.030 - Similar application for 00:11:45.026 --> 00:11:51.853 - south-facing solar panels. Petitioner is James Smith. This is located at 1214 South Madison Street in 00:11:51.853 --> 00:11:58.547 - the McDowell Gardens Historic District. 1214 South Madison Street is a tea plant cottage with three 00:11:58.547 --> 00:12:05.776 - over one Craftsman-style windows and its green front porch. There have been one or two small rear additions 00:12:05.776 --> 00:12:12.603 - to the property, which sits at the corner of Madison and Driscoll. Once more, this request is for the 00:12:12.603 --> 00:12:13.406 - addition of 00:12:14.210 --> 00:12:23.577 - solar panels to the property on the south-facing portions of the roof, and staff approved COA 2688. 00:12:23.577 --> 00:12:33.130 - Once again, the proposed solar installation is set close to the pitch of the roof and will not damage 00:12:33.130 --> 00:12:43.902 - or obscure any historic features. I'm sorry, do you have this printed off? Thank you. Last one of these, COA 2689, 00:12:44.610 --> 00:12:51.715 - for 706 West Third Street petitioner is Tom Rosnowski in the Greater Prospect Hill Historic District. 00:12:51.715 --> 00:12:58.680 - 706 West Third Street is a one story gabled front California bungalow with a full width brick front 00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:05.925 - porch, limestone foundation and original windows and doors. It fronts a brick sidewalk on Third Street. 00:13:05.925 --> 00:13:13.726 - This request is for the installation of solar panels near the southern end of the roof. So that would be facing 00:13:14.594 --> 00:13:22.991 - Third Street. Once again, this application has been approved by staff because the proposed solar installation 00:13:22.991 --> 00:13:30.855 - would be set close to the roof pitch and surface and wouldn't damage or obscure any historic features. 00:13:30.855 --> 00:13:38.565 - Okay. All right. Thank you very much Mr. Santwise. I know that represents quite a bit of work and we 00:13:38.565 --> 00:13:39.710 - appreciate it. 00:13:40.130 --> 00:13:45.702 - For this next section, this is a procedure for certificates of appropriateness and demolition delays. 00:13:45.702 --> 00:13:51.165 - For each item, the Historic Preservation Program Manager will first present a staff report. We will 00:13:51.165 --> 00:13:56.791 - then hear if the petitioner has any additional information, followed by a round of questions from each 00:13:56.791 --> 00:14:02.636 - commissioner. We ask that petitioners, the public, and commissioners refrain from speaking until addressed 00:14:02.636 --> 00:14:06.078 - by the chair, unless a question is directly addressed to them. 00:14:06.498 --> 00:14:12.403 - If a member of the public or a petitioner wishes to comment, please raise your hand until recognized 00:14:12.403 --> 00:14:18.367 - by the chair. Once a motion is made, we will then open up a discussion of the item for members of the 00:14:18.367 --> 00:14:24.798 - commission. We encourage all commissioners, petitioners, and members of the public to be civil and respectful 00:14:24.798 --> 00:14:30.995 - at all times. All right, so we've got one commission reviewed certificate of appropriateness for tonight. 00:14:30.995 --> 00:14:35.614 - That is COA 2690, 927 West 6th Street in the Near West Side Historic District, 00:14:36.194 --> 00:14:47.659 - Petitioner is Teresa Woods. Is the petitioner present? All right, great. Oh no. Should have made that 00:14:47.659 --> 00:14:59.237 - change, okay. We'll let the record show, 927 West 6th Street, in the Near West Side Historic District. 00:14:59.237 --> 00:15:01.822 - Okay. Just that slide. 00:15:05.378 --> 00:15:13.641 - 927 West 6th Street is a severely altered hall and parlor house with an enclosed hip root porch and 00:15:13.641 --> 00:15:21.987 - with a limestone knee wall. There are additions to the west side and rear of the house, although the 00:15:21.987 --> 00:15:30.250 - original portion is still legible. Most of the exterior materials have been changed over time. This 00:15:30.250 --> 00:15:32.894 - request is for the extension of 00:15:33.826 --> 00:15:44.260 - part of the rear addition on the house at a width of 13 feet to extend nine feet from the rear of the 00:15:44.260 --> 00:15:54.489 - main block of the house. There are also a couple of proposed changes to fenestration, including the 00:15:54.489 --> 00:16:01.854 - replacement of one of these single pane windows and the installation of 00:16:03.042 --> 00:16:09.769 - an additional one over one vinyl or aluminum window on both the side and the rear of the addition. Staff 00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:16.495 - recommends approval of COA 2690. The alteration to the rear addition would not have a significant impact 00:16:16.495 --> 00:16:23.222 - on the massing of the building and would be minimally visible from the street. The proposed fenestration 00:16:23.222 --> 00:16:29.565 - changes would be located on a secondary facade and not incongruous with those found on neighboring 00:16:29.565 --> 00:16:31.038 - contributing buildings 00:16:31.906 --> 00:16:38.418 - particularly on the sides and additions. You'll see in your packets if you check them out that this 00:16:38.418 --> 00:16:45.059 - item has been revised. So the original proposal would show something a little different, an expansion 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:52.092 - of the side addition. There's also some more information on there about proposed changes to the arrangement 00:16:52.092 --> 00:16:57.822 - of the windows and doors. Does the petitioner have anything that she would like to add? 00:17:03.106 --> 00:17:14.585 - Okay, do we have any public comment from anyone in the room or online? All right, well let's 00:17:14.585 --> 00:17:27.298 - go to Commissioner questions and we'll start with Commissioner Duffy. I don't have any questions about 00:17:27.298 --> 00:17:32.606 - the project at all, but I have a question. 00:17:32.770 --> 00:17:43.950 - Because we had three different renovations going on Sixth Street, and I'm wondering, did Sandy, did 00:17:43.950 --> 00:17:55.354 - you send this? I believe I did. Okay. She didn't show up. Oh, no. So, if anyone else is going to ask. 00:17:55.354 --> 00:18:01.950 - I'm going to have to look back and see. Yeah, it might be. 00:18:02.178 --> 00:18:19.198 - me that's mistaken, but I'll save the rest for comments. 00:18:19.394 --> 00:18:25.338 - From the plans, I know you had said they were altered and I saw the changes and the note in the packet. 00:18:25.338 --> 00:18:31.053 - Are there any of the, you have to forget my term, but like the different views from like the north, 00:18:31.053 --> 00:18:36.997 - the west, just to see what the, I hate to say architectural, but like the drawings of how it's supposed 00:18:36.997 --> 00:18:42.713 - to turn out with the, I know there's a list of the materials, which is really helpful, but just how 00:18:42.713 --> 00:18:46.942 - it's supposed to look at the end that way. We were both on the same page. 00:18:47.458 --> 00:18:54.355 - Just because I'm not an architect so for me some of this I'm more visual. And I shouldn't see it in 00:18:54.355 --> 00:19:01.528 - the packet but I just want to make sure I didn't miss it in the packet. You'll see a couple of drawings 00:19:01.528 --> 00:19:08.702 - in the packet on my paper. One of which indicates what the rear is going to look like and another shows 00:19:08.702 --> 00:19:12.702 - the overall floor plan with a couple of windows in place. 00:19:17.154 --> 00:19:25.074 - So my understanding is that the proposal is for both of the new windows to be one over one. OK. But 00:19:25.074 --> 00:19:32.993 - aside from the line paper drawings, there's not like the architectural? No. OK. So the measurements 00:19:32.993 --> 00:19:40.913 - that I have are for the overall dimensions. OK. Thank you. And I don't believe the placement of the 00:19:40.913 --> 00:19:44.318 - door is changing besides being bumped out. 00:19:47.426 --> 00:19:53.192 - That's all I have. Okay. Thank you. Vice Chair Baker, any questions? Yes. Could you go through these 00:19:53.192 --> 00:19:59.243 - drawings? Go through all the drawings you have. I'm having trouble getting an idea of what this is really 00:19:59.243 --> 00:20:03.582 - going to look like and what the heights are going to be when it's all done. 00:20:29.506 --> 00:20:55.518 - drawing was provided so that's proposed rear elevations and floor plan all right thank you no more questions all right 00:20:58.434 --> 00:21:06.083 - I don't know that I have any questions. I think the drawings could be more explanatory maybe, but I 00:21:06.083 --> 00:21:13.808 - think since it's such a simple sort of addition, I don't really have any questions. Comments will go 00:21:13.808 --> 00:21:21.534 - the other way. I'll start with Vice Chair Baker. Same comments that you just made. I can get an idea 00:21:21.534 --> 00:21:27.806 - of what this is, and I'm being pretty trusting based on the photos and the lines. 00:21:27.938 --> 00:21:35.827 - In general, I certainly would like to see better drawings. I'd like to see some kind of a rendering 00:21:35.827 --> 00:21:43.875 - that shows, more of a professional rendering. So we really get an idea of the heights and the massing 00:21:43.875 --> 00:21:52.001 - and all that. This is just a bit too rough for me. I think I'm not going to criticize it too much, but 00:21:52.001 --> 00:21:57.918 - in future I would like to see better drawings. So we have the information. 00:21:58.242 --> 00:22:06.800 - good information to make an impact. Thank you. Treasurer Schleyk? I agree with Vice Chair Baker. Commissioner 00:22:06.800 --> 00:22:14.736 - Golden? I agree with what Vice Chair Baker said, and this is at the back of the house, and it appears 00:22:14.736 --> 00:22:22.594 - that the roof line is the same. I don't see a problem with it. Thank you. Commissioner Duffy? I have 00:22:22.594 --> 00:22:26.718 - no objection to it. I thank my colleagues' comments. 00:22:26.914 --> 00:22:34.601 - are well taken, but I have no objection. All right, thank you. I agree with my colleagues. Once again, 00:22:34.601 --> 00:22:41.616 - I don't have any objections, but if it was a more complicated project, I would certainly want 00:22:41.616 --> 00:22:49.377 - more complicated drawings. Okay, so do we have anyone who'd like to make a motion? To approve COA 2699. 00:22:49.377 --> 00:22:54.526 - I'll second. Okay, we have a motion on the table. Okay, it's been... 00:22:54.850 --> 00:23:05.564 - Motion and second to approve COA 2690. We'll take a roll call vote. Vice Chair Baker? Yes. Chair Butler? 00:23:05.564 --> 00:23:16.075 - Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Golden? Yes. Treasurer Schlegel? Yes. COA 2690 is approved. 00:23:16.075 --> 00:23:23.422 - All right, thank you. So now we move on to demolition delay. All right. 00:23:25.602 --> 00:23:32.826 - So starting with demolition delay 2614. This is for 331 South Grant Street. The petitioner 00:23:32.826 --> 00:23:41.003 - is Todd Sachstetter. I'll give you all a refresher. We've seen this one before. Build between 1890 and 00:23:41.003 --> 00:23:49.100 - 1897, 331. Yes? The image up there is not corresponding. Oh, that's right. Can I share screen to that 00:23:49.100 --> 00:23:52.990 - specifically? Sorry to interrupt. No, it's fine. 00:24:01.506 --> 00:24:07.675 - Built between 1890 and 1897, 331 South Grant Street is a two-story Queen Anne style house with a hipped 00:24:07.675 --> 00:24:13.607 - roof and cross gables. The house has a wraparound corner porch and few decorative features. There's 00:24:13.607 --> 00:24:19.717 - a low limestone retaining wall at the edge of the property and a wrought iron fence installed sometime 00:24:19.717 --> 00:24:25.649 - in the early 2000s. The property is rated contributing on the Indiana historic sites and structures 00:24:25.649 --> 00:24:31.166 - inventory and exhibits a high degree of integrity judging from historic photos and materials 00:24:31.682 --> 00:24:39.415 - including original doors and two-over-one windows. While the first probable owner of the house is listed 00:24:39.415 --> 00:24:46.853 - in the 1900 city directories, Marie Fuller, the house does not appear in the 1900 census, and nobody 00:24:46.853 --> 00:24:54.365 - by that name appears in later directories or newspaper references. By 1909, the house had passed into 00:24:54.365 --> 00:25:00.478 - the hands of real estate agent and landlord William Andy Hazel and his wife Laura. 00:25:01.346 --> 00:25:07.191 - The couple lived in the house until 1920, and after moving out, rented out rooms throughout the 1920s. 00:25:07.191 --> 00:25:13.150 - In 29, the house was bought by Joseph W. Robertson, a retired blacksmith for the Monon Railroad, working 00:25:13.150 --> 00:25:18.881 - as a custodian for the Bloomington Eagles. His wife, Laura, described as a lovable woman, lived with 00:25:18.881 --> 00:25:24.897 - him in the house along with boarders, most of whom were Indiana University students. Their son, Leighton, 00:25:24.897 --> 00:25:28.926 - and his wife owned the house until 1979, continuing to rent out rooms, 00:25:29.954 --> 00:25:36.267 - By 1973, the House had received the distinction of being one of the first rental properties to appear 00:25:36.267 --> 00:25:43.076 - before the Bloomington Board of Housing Quality Appeals to address a number of safety violations. Speculation 00:25:43.076 --> 00:25:49.266 - has been raised as to a possible connection with Maddie Jacobs Fuller, a prominent African-American 00:25:49.266 --> 00:25:55.331 - businesswoman with a similar name to an early owner of the property. At the October 22nd Historic 00:25:55.331 --> 00:25:57.374 - Preservation Commission meeting, 00:25:58.210 --> 00:26:05.892 - The commission voted to request further research into the matter. Maddie Pierce Jacobs married her second 00:26:05.892 --> 00:26:13.211 - husband Levi Fuller in 1906. After that date, after the date at which Mrs. Marie Fuller is listed as 00:26:13.211 --> 00:26:20.821 - the property owner. Although her addresses in the 1890s and 1910s have yet to be verified, Maddie Jacobs 00:26:20.821 --> 00:26:27.198 - Fuller lived in several houses on Bloomington's west side before and after this gap. So 00:26:27.618 --> 00:26:34.717 - Staff's recommendation for a lease of demolition delay remains unchanged. Nonetheless, to get into a 00:26:34.717 --> 00:26:42.378 - little more detail, this two-story Queen Anne house is larger and perhaps older than a lot of the properties 00:26:42.378 --> 00:26:49.547 - we consider for demolition delay, and it needs to be considered in that context. The area between 3rd 00:26:49.547 --> 00:26:53.694 - and Smith has a number of similar Queen Anne-styled homes, 00:26:54.434 --> 00:27:00.111 - rated notable, contributing, and outstanding for their architectural character. Two notable and one 00:27:00.111 --> 00:27:05.846 - outstanding Queen Anne house can be found, for example, at the intersection of Smith and Dunn, which 00:27:05.846 --> 00:27:11.580 - exhibit a high degree of integrity in a number of distinctive original features. One block north are 00:27:11.580 --> 00:27:17.371 - two Queen Anne houses which retain some characteristic spindle work and siding, but have been labeled 00:27:17.371 --> 00:27:22.878 - contributing by the state DHPA survey for displaying a lower level of integrity and distinction. 00:27:24.034 --> 00:27:31.909 - 331 South Grant is closer to these properties in terms of architectural significance. Barring any outstanding 00:27:31.909 --> 00:27:39.282 - historical significance, or unless there's a reason to reevaluate 331's architectural integrity, staff 00:27:39.282 --> 00:27:46.727 - does not believe that it is eligible for individual designation. Does the petitioner have anything that 00:27:46.727 --> 00:27:49.662 - he would like to add? I believe he's on. 00:28:19.746 --> 00:28:29.679 - Yes, yes. Just like I said before, the. It's a part of multiple siding, multiple different types of 00:28:29.679 --> 00:28:40.505 - siding. The foundation is very poor. I think at this situation, like I said, this is. Many of the historical 00:28:40.505 --> 00:28:49.246 - items that. Or historical on this have been removed and. It's pretty, it's like I said, 00:28:49.730 --> 00:29:00.326 - pretty rough building on top of that. It's been converted into six individual units inside, so it's 00:29:00.326 --> 00:29:11.241 - been changed quite a bit, so that's it. All right, thank you. Do we have any comments from the public? 00:29:11.241 --> 00:29:12.830 - Anyone online? 00:29:18.658 --> 00:29:26.858 - All right, let's move to commissioner questions. I'll start with Vice Chair Baker. Procedurally, if 00:29:26.858 --> 00:29:35.386 - we vote to release, obviously it's released and they can do with it as they wish. If we voted that down 00:29:35.386 --> 00:29:43.750 - or don't take a vote, what happens is that there's a time limit and it will run out at some point, is 00:29:43.750 --> 00:29:47.358 - that correct? Well, the time limit for this 00:29:49.858 --> 00:29:59.029 - is October, sorry, this was initiated, I think, is it September or October 9th? Yeah, September 9th, 00:29:59.029 --> 00:30:08.199 - so it would expire on the day before our next meeting. The commission does have the right to request 00:30:08.199 --> 00:30:16.734 - an additional 30 days from the director of hand if they think that there's any need for that. 00:30:19.138 --> 00:30:27.135 - I think what I'm really asking Noah is that when it runs out, when that time limit runs out, that it 00:30:27.135 --> 00:30:35.687 - is released. Yes. OK. That's all I want. Thank you. Want to make that clear. Thank you. Treasurer Schlegel? 00:30:35.687 --> 00:30:43.606 - So Noah, I was trying to read some stuff on here to brush back up on this one. The research you had 00:30:43.606 --> 00:30:48.990 - been able to do with the directories for the, I think it was Marie, 00:30:49.346 --> 00:30:58.087 - Folars who was listed. You said you hadn't found, like, in those directories from that era, they weren't 00:30:58.087 --> 00:31:06.411 - found. OK, so subsequently, I'm sorry, I hadn't made this amendment to the recommendation because I 00:31:06.411 --> 00:31:15.068 - was looking more specifically at Maddie Jacobs Folar and any possible connection with her. Right. Yeah, 00:31:15.068 --> 00:31:18.814 - I did subsequently find a Marie Folar that I 00:31:18.946 --> 00:31:26.271 - could not confirm lived at this address, but lived in Bloomington around this time, who's referenced 00:31:26.271 --> 00:31:33.596 - as a widow of a local judge. Okay. Okay. Okay, I was just curious, I've been talking to Liz Mitchell 00:31:33.596 --> 00:31:40.993 - throughout the day. So she just had a lot of other questions. I had I had checked with Liz about this 00:31:40.993 --> 00:31:47.230 - to see if she knew anything about the connection here, at least in this part of town. 00:31:47.490 --> 00:31:56.580 - Okay, had she gotten back to you? Um, last time we talked, she wasn't aware of any. Okay, but that was 00:31:56.580 --> 00:32:05.670 - a while ago. It was shortly after our last meeting. Okay. I had been talking to Liz and she Okay, that 00:32:05.670 --> 00:32:15.024 - might be more for comments then since it's not a question. Okay. Question gold. No question. No question. 00:32:15.024 --> 00:32:17.054 - Yeah, I don't have any 00:32:17.474 --> 00:32:26.406 - questions either. So now we'll go to Commissioner comments and we'll start with Commissioner Duffy. 00:32:26.406 --> 00:32:35.428 - Do we have a motion first? Oh, I think technically there's supposed to be motion on the table before 00:32:35.428 --> 00:32:39.358 - comments to release demolition delay 26-14. 00:32:48.002 --> 00:32:58.972 - Do we have a second? Do we have any other motions that people would like to make? I'd like to make a 00:32:58.972 --> 00:33:09.834 - motion to delay the delay. I don't know if that's the proper request. I can explain once we can get 00:33:09.834 --> 00:33:16.894 - to comments, but. Do we have a second? So would this be to delay 00:33:18.146 --> 00:33:24.395 - until the next meeting at which point this would expire or to extend by 30 days? To, well we'd have 00:33:24.395 --> 00:33:30.644 - to delay and then I guess ask the director of hand for the, since we lose the, we're a day short of 00:33:30.644 --> 00:33:37.142 - making it to the next meeting unless we have to do a special meeting. I don't know what's, I don't know 00:33:37.142 --> 00:33:43.641 - how that's taken into consideration by the director. So, but it would be to delay for a special meeting 00:33:43.641 --> 00:33:46.078 - or to ask for that additional 30 days. 00:33:52.258 --> 00:34:02.773 - second for that. This is a tricky one. So I appreciate your being in this dilemma. Is it appropriate 00:34:02.773 --> 00:34:13.497 - to make a comment at this point? Oh, there's no second. Right. So we don't have a motion. Yes. There's 00:34:13.497 --> 00:34:18.078 - no motion. There's no motions on the floor. 00:34:21.314 --> 00:34:32.241 - Is there another motion to make? So that we could at least comment on it. That's all I was trying to 00:34:32.241 --> 00:34:37.758 - do. Right. Viable, still entertaining. Any motion? 00:34:53.922 --> 00:35:04.060 - No, but okay. I can't really dispose of the item without having a motion in a second and taking a vote. 00:35:04.060 --> 00:35:14.491 - So I suppose, Mr. Chair, you could decide to do a second round of maybe questions or discussion on process 00:35:14.491 --> 00:35:23.070 - and then to kind of shake some things out. So there's no way we can move on to comments 00:35:23.394 --> 00:35:29.813 - if we called them something else for the time being? So when you have a motion on the floor, it's discussion, 00:35:29.813 --> 00:35:35.824 - right, about the motion. So if you want to have another round of comments so that you can kind of talk 00:35:35.824 --> 00:35:41.951 - about this. Let's do that. And then you'll need to take a round for the motion and try and get something 00:35:41.951 --> 00:35:47.962 - on the floor so you can talk about that. OK. So let's have a discussion about our discussion. Schleyk, 00:35:47.962 --> 00:35:49.246 - Commissioner Schleyk. 00:35:49.378 --> 00:35:55.024 - The reason I made the comment I did is, in talking with Liz Mitchell, that I work with closely on a 00:35:55.024 --> 00:36:00.669 - lot of her research to help with that, is she just said that she's not been able to dig as far into 00:36:00.669 --> 00:36:06.315 - it as she would have liked. And she's just asked for additional time to be able to do, just to make 00:36:06.315 --> 00:36:12.017 - sure that there's no other lingering doubts, if you will. Not that I don't trust you, because you do 00:36:12.017 --> 00:36:14.558 - an excellent job. I want to make that clear. 00:36:14.914 --> 00:36:21.849 - But she just said that the black community has lost so much, not only in Bloomington, but across America. 00:36:21.849 --> 00:36:28.653 - Please ask to have some saving grace just to give a little more time. And so I'm willing, knowing Liz's 00:36:28.653 --> 00:36:35.654 - research and her passion, I think just because there is potential just to be able to finish doing research 00:36:35.654 --> 00:36:42.393 - so she can confirm that out, I thought would be a reasonable request. So that is why I made the motion 00:36:42.393 --> 00:36:44.094 - in the manner that I did. 00:36:44.322 --> 00:36:54.483 - Just for asking that additional since we don't have the day to make it or that our meetings a day shy 00:36:54.483 --> 00:37:05.241 - That was why I did that Anyone else like to make additional comments? I We have so many of these demolition 00:37:05.241 --> 00:37:14.206 - delays and we all Regret Letting so many go because we just don't have any authority over 00:37:15.586 --> 00:37:25.019 - We don't want to send them to City Council. They will be acted upon. By state law, we couldn't possibly 00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:34.906 - take over the designation that has to go to City Council itself, by law. We don't really have any authority, 00:37:34.906 --> 00:37:44.702 - and I'm just always wrestling with letting a property go and be released. This one is particularly notable. 00:37:44.898 --> 00:37:52.514 - In my mind, whether it has a bad foundation and has been divided up, it still has mass, it still has 00:37:52.514 --> 00:38:00.582 - character. When you drive by, you see it, you notice it. And I would rather vote no on a motion to release 00:38:00.582 --> 00:38:08.500 - and let the time run out than to actually vote no. And that's sort of my stance on this one this evening 00:38:08.500 --> 00:38:11.742 - is why I'm being quiet about other things. 00:38:15.746 --> 00:38:23.849 - comments from my uncommented commissioners? Yeah, I think I have a comment. Sure. I'm just thinking 00:38:23.849 --> 00:38:32.277 - of the future of this product, this property. And I've been in a couple of times. It is in rough shape. 00:38:32.277 --> 00:38:40.786 - It is in six or seven units. Foundation is bad. That being said, that's not really, you know, what we're 00:38:40.786 --> 00:38:41.758 - looking at. 00:38:43.106 --> 00:38:53.813 - But from a realistic point of view, I don't see a future for this property in its current state. It 00:38:53.813 --> 00:39:04.520 - hasn't received it, and I think it will end up staying like it is. Will it be replaced by some boxy 00:39:04.520 --> 00:39:13.086 - multi-unit property? Yes, absolutely. But I don't think this rises to the level 00:39:13.410 --> 00:39:24.059 - Especially since there's so much doubt around a possible connection to a possible person of history. 00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:34.814 - I just think it's time to let it go. So after that round of discussion, would you like to? No, I have 00:39:34.814 --> 00:39:43.038 - a question. Can I have a question? Sure. Raised by Daniels, Mr. Commissioner. 00:39:43.426 --> 00:39:51.745 - And you might have said this before, Noah, but did, in your discussions with Liz Mitchell, did you know 00:39:51.745 --> 00:39:59.984 - yet and report to her about the wedding, the date of the? No, I hadn't been aware of that at the time. 00:39:59.984 --> 00:40:08.063 - That's what I thought you said. I found that out a little later. Yeah. So that was from the marriage 00:40:08.063 --> 00:40:12.382 - indices that Monroe County History Center has online. 00:40:12.706 --> 00:40:23.231 - So the last names really don't match up because she was a Jacobs until the date this is listed as belonging 00:40:23.231 --> 00:40:33.171 - to Fuller and the first names don't match up either. I just feel I should point that out. That's all. 00:40:33.171 --> 00:40:42.526 - All right, now I would consider a motion. I still have a motion out there. Do we have a second? 00:40:49.794 --> 00:40:59.953 - Hearing no seconds, do we have any other motions? I guess, Treasurer Schlegel, is your motion still 00:40:59.953 --> 00:41:09.807 - out there as well? Yeah, and I'll leave it on the table. Do we have any seconds for that motion? 00:41:09.807 --> 00:41:15.902 - I'll second. Okay, so we have a motion to delay. All right. 00:41:16.578 --> 00:41:23.869 - Yeah, let's clarify this. So the motion needs to be a motion to request additional time from the director 00:41:23.869 --> 00:41:30.746 - because you're going to run out of your 90 day window. So what happens if she says no? Then it will 00:41:30.746 --> 00:41:38.174 - do exactly what the time will expire and it will be just being approved. Are you okay with the consequences 00:41:38.174 --> 00:41:39.550 - of that? Yes, I am. 00:41:39.970 --> 00:41:46.369 - Director Colleen Hansen, will you be okay if they make a motion to request extra time from you because 00:41:46.369 --> 00:41:52.768 - the timeline runs out the day before our next meeting? I would rather be safe and make sure that we've 00:41:52.768 --> 00:41:59.105 - looked at all of the data. So yes, I'm totally fine with the delay. Another 30 days. Okay, all right. 00:41:59.105 --> 00:42:05.441 - So you have a verbal commitment from the director. We'll still put it in writing and she'll put it in 00:42:05.441 --> 00:42:08.734 - writing. If there's a second for your motion, sorry. 00:42:09.410 --> 00:42:19.264 - Commissioner Delaney. My understanding about Dill Delay is if we do request and when we do request, 00:42:19.264 --> 00:42:29.315 - we should present a reason, so additional research with Elizabeth Mitchell or something. I don't know 00:42:29.315 --> 00:42:39.070 - if we want to get that specific, so that it doesn't just sound terribly open-ended for the record. 00:42:39.522 --> 00:42:54.226 - to justify. Thank you. Yes. Yes, that's great. All right, we have a motion on the table. We'll have 00:42:54.226 --> 00:43:07.166 - a roll call vote. Oh, I think Jack said thank you. Thank you all for your help on that. 00:43:07.842 --> 00:43:16.311 - So that motion is on the table to request additional time. A request from the director. We're gonna 00:43:16.311 --> 00:43:24.187 - go ahead and take a roll call vote. This is on DD 2614. Vice Chair Baker? Yes. Chair Butler? 00:43:24.187 --> 00:43:32.994 - Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Golden? No. Treasurer Schlegel? Yes. That motion to continue 00:43:32.994 --> 00:43:36.382 - and request to the director passes 4-1. 00:43:42.306 --> 00:43:49.761 - with her hand up, but she is of the public and that public. Yeah, but I wanted to let you know she does 00:43:49.761 --> 00:43:57.288 - have her hand up. Can we let her comment without? If you're wanting her to be public, someone with their 00:43:57.288 --> 00:44:04.599 - hand up for the public. Was she trying to comment on that specific item? I don't know because there's 00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:12.126 - just a hand up and it was during the Commissioner comment period after the, so I've asked her to unmute. 00:44:13.026 --> 00:44:31.569 - Yes, thank you. Go ahead, Jan. Let me see if I can unmute her. I've asked her to unmute. She is unmuted. 00:44:31.569 --> 00:44:35.454 - Jan, can you hear us? 00:44:45.410 --> 00:45:01.550 - Let's just move on then. All right. All right. So we're coming up on two more demolition delays that 00:45:01.550 --> 00:45:14.334 - have been continued. Basically the same time frame. These two are set to expire 00:45:14.978 --> 00:45:22.886 - the day of our next meeting. Does that mean we would be able to hear them or not? I'm going to think 00:45:22.886 --> 00:45:30.715 - about time frame. I would think that you could still hear them. If it was on the day, I would argue 00:45:30.715 --> 00:45:39.093 - that you could still hear them. But you'd have to dispose of it that day, or it would be deemed incorrect. 00:45:39.093 --> 00:45:41.598 - Yes, OK. All right, petitioner. 00:45:42.178 --> 00:45:49.939 - for demolition delay 2615 is Alexa Lucas. Lewis, sorry. This is for 503 North Grant Street. 503 North 00:45:49.939 --> 00:45:57.625 - Grant is a side gabled buff scratch brick four square with three tapered porch posts, original three 00:45:57.625 --> 00:46:05.842 - over one and four over one windows. These unusual bricks can be found on several contemporaneous commercial 00:46:05.842 --> 00:46:12.158 - buildings built by the Mitchell Brothers. The house has a small rear shed addition 00:46:14.402 --> 00:46:21.322 - and replaced an earlier single family, sorry, single story house with a similar footprint. The house 00:46:21.322 --> 00:46:28.654 - was first owned by barber Alfred Bryant and his wife, Clella, proprietors of Bo Brummel Barber and Beauty. 00:46:28.654 --> 00:46:35.505 - After several years, the couple sold the house to Maurice and Ruth Sharer, an express delivery man. 00:46:35.505 --> 00:46:42.494 - Maurice moved to the country in the late 1930s where he and his wife were active in the Monroe County 00:46:42.882 --> 00:46:49.086 - agricultural and horticultural society, and other local volunteer organizations. From the 1940s through 00:46:49.086 --> 00:46:55.051 - 1955, the house was occupied by the Dess family. Morris and Sophie Dess were Jewish immigrants from 00:46:55.051 --> 00:47:00.719 - the former Russian Empire, and Morris worked as a purchaser for Fell Ironworks. Their son, Dr. 00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:07.042 - Howard Dess, worked as a division director at Union Carbide prior to becoming a library science professor 00:47:07.042 --> 00:47:08.414 - at Rutgers University. 00:47:09.858 --> 00:47:16.385 - The desks sold the house to salesman Robert Lafferty and his wife Joan. The couple's son Mike grew up 00:47:16.385 --> 00:47:23.232 - in the house and would become an active member of the Brown County, Indiana music scene. From 1975 through 00:47:23.232 --> 00:47:29.695 - 1977, the house was occupied by Elizabeth Noyes and her two children. At the time, Noyes was earning 00:47:29.695 --> 00:47:36.286 - her JD from Indiana University and would go on to serve as a judge in the Monroe County Circuit Court. 00:47:36.286 --> 00:47:37.566 - So you may remember 00:47:38.818 --> 00:47:46.565 - At the last meeting, there was a request to continue these items to see if any more information could 00:47:46.565 --> 00:47:54.843 - be found about potential architectural significance of the building. I reached out to the Indiana Department 00:47:54.843 --> 00:48:02.665 - of Historic Preservation and Archaeology and made a determination of eligibility request for both this 00:48:02.665 --> 00:48:07.070 - property and the next property. I included materials that 00:48:07.650 --> 00:48:16.306 - I had access to, including exterior pictures and floor plans, which I'm not sure are current, but were 00:48:16.306 --> 00:48:24.794 - in possession of the city, public records. They got back to me Tuesday, the day before Memorial Day, 00:48:24.794 --> 00:48:33.281 - and said there was not enough information for them to make a determination because there weren't any 00:48:33.281 --> 00:48:34.878 - interior pictures. 00:48:35.042 --> 00:48:45.850 - You know, there aren't any interior pictures available for these buildings. Um, at least none that I 00:48:45.850 --> 00:48:56.765 - could find online or, you know, in public city records. So in lieu of, I reached out to, um, the DHPA 00:48:56.765 --> 00:49:03.614 - a couple of times, um, asking if they had any further comments. 00:49:03.842 --> 00:49:16.579 - besides asking for more information. And I have not heard back, so in lieu of any additional information, 00:49:16.579 --> 00:49:29.556 - I don't feel like I can change my recommendation. As the petitioner present, would you like to add anything 00:49:29.556 --> 00:49:31.358 - to that? Sure. 00:49:33.602 --> 00:49:44.459 - Good evening. Tim Cover with Legate Architects representing Alexa Lewis, the homeowner. One quick question. 00:49:44.459 --> 00:49:54.712 - The start date for the demo delay, we filed on 9-4. And so I'm just kind of curious at that as far as 00:49:54.712 --> 00:50:02.654 - when it shows being uploaded to the city was 9-4. Just if that impacts things. 00:50:03.362 --> 00:50:14.034 - So today marks actually the fourth meeting for this property. The first two were missed because there 00:50:14.034 --> 00:50:24.705 - was no quorum. The third one, as Noah mentioned, there were some comments raised about whether or not 00:50:24.705 --> 00:50:30.878 - the brick was tied to the Mitchell Brothers, a significant 00:50:31.106 --> 00:50:40.353 - group here in town back in that era. And today, meeting number four. I'd like to say the one thing that 00:50:40.353 --> 00:50:49.688 - hasn't changed in the four meetings has been the staff's recommendation to release the demolition delay. 00:50:49.688 --> 00:50:59.646 - And so what I'd like to kind of mention or point out is that the staff was asked to do research. Noah has done. 00:50:59.874 --> 00:51:10.059 - Quite a bit of research and looking into this building and the next project as well or house and found 00:51:10.059 --> 00:51:20.442 - no ties to the Mitchell Brothers or this brick being tied to anyone of significance. I've done extensive 00:51:20.442 --> 00:51:29.342 - research on the properties. The owner has paid a third party to do extensive research and 00:51:29.634 --> 00:51:40.735 - She also has found no ties to the Mitchell brothers or linking this house in any significant way. Staff, 00:51:40.735 --> 00:51:51.520 - as Noah mentioned, also reached out to DHPA with questions about the house and if there was any other 00:51:51.520 --> 00:51:55.326 - information on it for the exterior. 00:51:55.618 --> 00:52:03.580 - That is the group that gave it the initial contributing designation, as you guys are aware. Their comments 00:52:03.580 --> 00:52:11.394 - coming back with not being able to make a determination, which with that, they're finding no information 00:52:11.394 --> 00:52:18.910 - based on the exterior and what they're looking at to elevate this project. There's no archaeological 00:52:18.910 --> 00:52:22.110 - info. There's no event that occurred here. 00:52:22.242 --> 00:52:30.531 - There's no tie to a significant person or the Mitchell Brothers that has been found anywhere. And there's 00:52:30.531 --> 00:52:38.821 - no significance to the design or construction that had a distinctive characteristic that has been brought 00:52:38.821 --> 00:52:46.876 - up by the state or mentioned as a reason for retaining this property. So the questions were asked, the 00:52:46.876 --> 00:52:50.942 - questions have been answered. We would respectfully 00:52:51.074 --> 00:52:59.526 - ask at this time to let these projects move on and to go ahead and vote to release the demolition delay. 00:52:59.526 --> 00:53:07.977 - I've got a few other colleagues. I don't know if they, if everyone can speak on behalf of the petitioner 00:53:07.977 --> 00:53:16.027 - or if they need to speak as a member of the audience. That would be public comment. I think, right? 00:53:16.027 --> 00:53:19.166 - Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. 00:53:24.898 --> 00:53:33.455 - to unmute if we know who's online. We have one person online and another individual here in the audience. 00:53:33.455 --> 00:53:41.608 - All right, so we'll move on to public comment. Let's go online first and then we'll move back. We do 00:53:41.608 --> 00:53:49.681 - have Jan Sorby who was trying to speak earlier in public comment. Anyone else that wishes to speak, 00:53:49.681 --> 00:53:54.686 - if you could raise your hand, that way I can have you unmute. 00:53:59.746 --> 00:54:11.499 - We have John Richards that would like to comment. Are you there, John Richards? I am here. I cannot 00:54:11.499 --> 00:54:23.370 - get my video enabled. I apologize. I'm counsel for the petitioner, and I would echo exactly what Mr. 00:54:23.370 --> 00:54:28.894 - Cobert said that with respect to this petition 00:54:28.994 --> 00:54:36.849 - And the one that. Comes right after this one that there's been. No connection to the Mitchell brothers 00:54:36.849 --> 00:54:44.857 - that's been uncovered by either Mr Kover. Representatives of the petitioner or by Noah. My understanding 00:54:44.857 --> 00:54:52.712 - is that the state has provided no evidence to change the staff recommendation. Miss Mr Kover indicated 00:54:52.712 --> 00:54:56.830 - this is the fourth meeting on on these two petitions. 00:54:57.698 --> 00:55:06.934 - first two a quorum was not achieved and at the last meeting in October it was pushed to this evening. 00:55:06.934 --> 00:55:16.351 - So we believe it's appropriate to approve the staff recommendation to release the demolition delay with 00:55:16.351 --> 00:55:24.862 - respect to both this petition and the one that comes right after this one. That's all I have. 00:55:28.162 --> 00:55:35.671 - public comment in the room, please. So I would just like to add a third on to the research that also 00:55:35.671 --> 00:55:43.404 - to Mr. Cobra Richards comments that there was no connection to the Mitchell brothers. I also spent time 00:55:43.404 --> 00:55:51.582 - in the Monroe County History Center's research library and scan digital records also found no evidence myself 00:55:52.034 --> 00:55:59.169 - And then also these houses lie in the city's carefully selected and designated qualified opportunity 00:55:59.169 --> 00:56:06.233 - zone to support Bloomington's development goals. And tenants for this year refused to move into the 00:56:06.233 --> 00:56:13.509 - property on their move-in day due to conditions of the house, including damp walls, signs of flooding, 00:56:13.509 --> 00:56:20.926 - and other hazardous conditions, and deterioration by mold. So things that tried to, as best as we could, 00:56:21.282 --> 00:56:28.067 - maintained by the former owners as well. But ultimately, our goal is to bring these addresses up to 00:56:28.067 --> 00:56:35.396 - speed with livable conditions to bring back tenants to this designated qualified opportunity zone location. 00:56:35.396 --> 00:56:42.453 - And those tenants would ultimately support the university and the local economy. So we appreciate being 00:56:42.453 --> 00:56:49.509 - heard. Thank you. Oh, yes. My name is Sydney. Sydney Hargis. Thank you. Yes. All right. Thank you. Yes. 00:56:49.509 --> 00:56:51.070 - Sorry. No worries. OK. 00:56:51.458 --> 00:56:59.710 - Steve Wyatt would like to speak. Okay, thank you. Go ahead Steve. 00:57:34.978 --> 00:57:44.823 - National Register nomination potentially could be made as a multiple property submission based on the 00:57:44.823 --> 00:57:54.958 - theme of the wire cut bricks. So that's probably the most viable path I would take to a DHPA recognition 00:57:54.958 --> 00:58:03.838 - that these buildings could be National Register eligible. That's all. All right, thank you. 00:58:06.690 --> 00:58:14.585 - Okay, so I think now we've made it to Commissioner questions. I'm asking that as a question, but I think 00:58:14.585 --> 00:58:22.180 - that's where we are. So Commissioner Duffy, would you like to start? Yeah, I have two questions, one 00:58:22.180 --> 00:58:29.022 - for each person. I'll start with Ms. Hargis. Yes. Just you were talking about the interior 00:58:29.378 --> 00:58:39.056 - Condition of the which we really don't consider but just for clarification has the City Hand Department 00:58:39.056 --> 00:58:48.362 - Have has the build have the buildings past City Hand Department inspection The last hand inspection 00:58:48.362 --> 00:58:57.668 - was in 2023 at that time they did not find any life safety issues. It's been a few years That's not 00:58:57.668 --> 00:58:58.878 - particularly 00:58:59.906 --> 00:59:07.555 - That is the latest information we have. OK, thank you. That was that question. And my other question 00:59:07.555 --> 00:59:15.205 - is for you, if you know this, I don't know. Was there any other source of this special kind of brick 00:59:15.205 --> 00:59:22.778 - other than the Mitchell Bridge? You might remember an application we had on 3rd Street earlier this 00:59:22.778 --> 00:59:29.822 - year where there was a building that could hit by a car that was made of this kind of brick. 00:59:30.146 --> 00:59:37.384 - And they were, so I was trying to help them find a replacement and I was checking salvage places and, 00:59:37.384 --> 00:59:44.977 - you know, contemporary brick manufacturers and I really could not find it. There are a handful of examples 00:59:44.977 --> 00:59:52.500 - in Bloomington. Most of them are on South Walnut where there's probably like maybe like somewhere between 00:59:52.500 --> 00:59:57.822 - four and six buildings that are made out of this or similar kind of brick. 00:59:58.338 --> 01:00:06.148 - Then there's a couple of Mitchell Brothers properties, or ones that bear their names, that are also 01:00:06.148 --> 01:00:14.427 - made of this brick. Not everything they built was made of it. But it's all from around 1930. So I thought 01:00:14.427 --> 01:00:22.393 - it was an interesting path to go down and see if maybe there might actually be some more significance 01:00:22.393 --> 01:00:28.094 - there, or it might prove some sort of relationship with a local builder, 01:00:31.138 --> 01:00:37.136 - It's still a bit of a puzzle to me where exactly the bricks came from, but it really just seems like 01:00:37.136 --> 01:00:43.252 - just a couple of years. So some of the buildings built by Mitchell Brothers are identified, but others 01:00:43.252 --> 01:00:49.488 - may not. Others may not be, but they may have been built by Mitchell Brothers. Well, the city and county 01:00:49.488 --> 01:00:55.604 - just don't keep a lot of the building records from back then. So basically, unless they put their name 01:00:55.604 --> 01:01:00.830 - on it or it's advertised in the newspaper, you can see that they were the first owners. 01:01:01.250 --> 01:01:09.164 - I just don't think we'd be able to tell. Thank you. Commissioner Gold, no questions. Thank you. To follow 01:01:09.164 --> 01:01:16.629 - up, sorry, no, I'm going to keep you popular guy tonight. So for these bricks and their uniqueness, 01:01:16.629 --> 01:01:24.244 - were there any other residential locations with these bricks or was it strictly commercial outside of 01:01:24.244 --> 01:01:30.142 - this house and its neighbor? So the neighbor does not have this kind of brick. 01:01:30.338 --> 01:01:37.120 - OK. But there are a few down south on Walnut that do. Walnut and Hillside. That's right, and Hillside. 01:01:37.120 --> 01:01:44.232 - So there's a couple, if you turn that corner, on Hillside and then up on the hill. Oh, and this is straight 01:01:44.232 --> 01:01:51.080 - up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's just a place. One, what's the next street over, is it? Southern, 01:01:51.080 --> 01:01:52.990 - yeah. They've got one there. 01:01:53.634 --> 01:02:01.475 - So and those are residential ones with it? Yes, not just so. I can think of I think two commercial buildings 01:02:01.475 --> 01:02:08.811 - that have these and then maybe a half dozen residential buildings. OK, and then when you were talking 01:02:08.811 --> 01:02:16.005 - about. Your investigation with the bricks and some of the other. Groups organizations that you were 01:02:16.005 --> 01:02:22.910 - did one of them. Didn't one of them you had sent several requests to and they hadn't replied to 01:02:23.906 --> 01:02:30.224 - Wait, request for my information? Yeah, for the information. Well, to this day, when I made a determination 01:02:30.224 --> 01:02:36.074 - of eligibility request. OK. And they just hadn't gone back? And then the other one was just because 01:02:36.074 --> 01:02:42.217 - there's no available interior photos? Well, right. That was the response that I got from the DHPA, which 01:02:42.217 --> 01:02:48.301 - that was the one group that I reached out to asking for more information on architectural significance, 01:02:48.301 --> 01:02:53.566 - because that's where the initial survey rating came from. So I wanted to see if there was 01:02:54.466 --> 01:03:01.884 - Is there any reason to reconsider that? Okay. Okay. Vice Chair Baker, any questions? Yes, Noah, did 01:03:01.884 --> 01:03:09.301 - I hear you say that you were awaiting some information still? Well, I had reached out to them again 01:03:09.301 --> 01:03:17.090 - this past Tuesday to try and solicit some more information to see that maybe, you know, if they couldn't 01:03:17.090 --> 01:03:24.062 - make a full determination of eligibility request, if they could at least provide some comment 01:03:24.770 --> 01:03:32.007 - the significance of the materials provided and I called and left a message and I emailed and I have 01:03:32.007 --> 01:03:38.592 - not heard back. Okay, thank you. I have a sort of a similar question to what some of these 01:03:38.592 --> 01:03:46.480 - other commissioners were asking. And so you've contacted these people and you provided them with information 01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:52.414 - about the exterior of the house. Right. And is, I don't know how to ask this, but 01:03:53.026 --> 01:04:00.273 - if the exterior was really lacking would they have let you know at that point and say even without the 01:04:00.273 --> 01:04:07.449 - interior we can just look at the outside and we know this house isn't worth it or is it the case that 01:04:07.449 --> 01:04:14.696 - they're asking for interior stuff mean that the outside might be eligible is that I think they decided 01:04:14.696 --> 01:04:21.310 - not to give a full determination because they didn't feel like they had enough information to 01:04:23.234 --> 01:04:33.957 - basically respond. OK. Thank you. All right. So now, would anyone like to make a motion? In the interest 01:04:33.957 --> 01:04:43.966 - of starting the discussion, I move to release demolition delay, DD 2615. OK. Do we have a second? 01:04:52.994 --> 01:05:09.086 - Not hearing a second, would anyone else like to make a motion? When does this one run out Noah? I mean, 01:05:09.086 --> 01:05:22.238 - I went ahead and checked back in my calendar. The date that I saw was November 10th. 01:05:23.234 --> 01:05:32.382 - Sorry, September 10th. It's also the... Yeah, I mean, I did have another demolition delay meeting on 01:05:32.382 --> 01:05:43.070 - September 4th. This is for a different property, however. So unless I'm forgetting something or my calendar is wrong, 01:05:54.914 --> 01:06:06.949 - Now as the chair, I can't make a motion, but can I pass the gavel and make a motion? I would like to 01:06:06.949 --> 01:06:19.222 - make a motion to delay in order to get your questions answered with the stage. And so that we can have 01:06:19.222 --> 01:06:22.558 - all the information to make 01:06:25.602 --> 01:06:33.119 - All right, so we have a motion that's been seconded. So, okay, so let's be really clear. You would like 01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:40.709 - to continue to the next meeting. Yes. In order for additional research to be done with the understanding 01:06:40.709 --> 01:06:47.937 - that the next meeting is the 90th day. Yes, yes. Now is it the 90th day? I want to make sure. Sorry 01:06:47.937 --> 01:06:53.214 - about that. Should it be amended to include and ask for additional days? 01:06:54.786 --> 01:07:04.331 - Is it up to 30 days additional can be requested or is it 30 days period? It reads just like it's 30 01:07:04.331 --> 01:07:14.163 - days. It's either 90 or 120. Did you want to revise your motion? I'm not finding anything specifically 01:07:14.163 --> 01:07:23.326 - about whether it's the date of application or the date of acknowledging a complete application. 01:07:23.906 --> 01:07:31.012 - Right? Many times it's the date that the clock starts is when a complete application is received. I'm 01:07:31.012 --> 01:07:38.258 - actually not finding that language. The way that it's generally been done is because it's like a public 01:07:38.258 --> 01:07:45.364 - notice period. It's initiated when the sign goes up at the property, which is usually the same day as 01:07:45.364 --> 01:07:46.270 - the meeting. 01:07:56.290 --> 01:08:03.850 - So could we move forward with the motion and then could that be changed to the later date if we? I want 01:08:03.850 --> 01:08:11.336 - to make sure. Right, we want to make sure, yeah. If you wanted to make sure that it does it? Okay. No, 01:08:11.336 --> 01:08:18.896 - it's because of, you know, 31 days in October would be 91 days, so. Okay, so I would like to. I'm extra 01:08:18.896 --> 01:08:25.438 - quick. Yes, thank you. So I'd like to amend it to include a request for an extra 30 days. 01:08:27.362 --> 01:08:41.504 - than a request to the hand director. Okay. Can we have a discussion now? Who was the second? Jack seconded. 01:08:41.504 --> 01:08:55.122 - Thank you. I have another question following on this, which is, is this request to get more information 01:08:55.122 --> 01:08:57.086 - from the state 01:08:58.338 --> 01:09:05.666 - I'm a little confused about the purpose again, and maybe it's to follow up on the national register 01:09:05.666 --> 01:09:13.287 - possibility. I don't know. I would accept both of those ideas. My initial motion was just for the state 01:09:13.287 --> 01:09:20.762 - to have time to get back to Noah about the things that he'd ask about. I don't know how he would word 01:09:20.762 --> 01:09:27.870 - that, but we could also include other information or avenues. Investigating that avenue as well. 01:09:28.418 --> 01:09:35.513 - Do you have a thought about that possibility? There's really two ways that that could look. One would 01:09:35.513 --> 01:09:42.956 - be either trying to get information from the survey coordinator to see if she sees any reason for changing 01:09:42.956 --> 01:09:50.052 - the rating on either this building or the next one we're going to look at, or getting a determination 01:09:50.052 --> 01:09:56.382 - of eligibility request, which is what I tried to do. That would require interior pictures. 01:09:56.866 --> 01:10:06.137 - and that would really depend on whether the property owner would want to cooperate with that. It's a 01:10:06.137 --> 01:10:15.316 - possibility that we simply, I don't know. I would have liked to hear back from them. I really don't 01:10:15.316 --> 01:10:23.486 - know at this point. All right, so we'll start a discussion. Vice Chair Baker? All right. 01:10:24.642 --> 01:10:33.063 - I have the same attitude here as I did on the previous side. I'd rather let it run out than say yes 01:10:33.063 --> 01:10:41.569 - to release. I appreciate all the comment from our architectural friends. I like architecture. I love 01:10:41.569 --> 01:10:50.748 - looking at interesting buildings and enjoying the spaces. And I also hate seeing good pieces of architecture 01:10:50.748 --> 01:10:54.622 - torn down. And I think that's what these are. 01:10:56.226 --> 01:11:06.119 - There's not much we can do. We can recommend to council and we hesitate to do that and council typically 01:11:06.119 --> 01:11:15.823 - will not designate a property. We're generally left powerless to just either let the time run out, say 01:11:15.823 --> 01:11:23.454 - yes or no to release. I would rather let the owner sit and mull this over a bit. 01:11:26.114 --> 01:11:31.390 - I would rather see them put effort into these buildings and money into these buildings. We hear they're 01:11:31.390 --> 01:11:36.565 - not in good shape. Well, they're not in good shape, obviously, because it's deferred maintenance. The 01:11:36.565 --> 01:11:41.689 - way you get to a property, to a place where you want to tear it down, is you don't put anything into 01:11:41.689 --> 01:11:46.864 - it. I've seen this with Indiana University. I've seen it with other buildings. It's everywhere. We're 01:11:46.864 --> 01:11:51.988 - running millions and billions behind because of deferred maintenance. These are just small examples. 01:11:51.988 --> 01:11:55.134 - They've been let run down. They could be beautiful buildings. 01:11:55.586 --> 01:12:02.050 - beautiful buildings, we find a way to put money into them. But it takes a really special building before 01:12:02.050 --> 01:12:08.330 - we can get everybody organized and the money organized to put into them. These buildings, in my mind, 01:12:08.330 --> 01:12:14.609 - are worthy. This one, the next one, and the last one are three that just stand out in a neighborhood, 01:12:14.609 --> 01:12:20.458 - and they mean neighborhood. And what comes after is not going to be neighborhood. They'll call 01:12:20.458 --> 01:12:22.366 - it neighborhood, but it won't. 01:12:22.498 --> 01:12:31.850 - It's just an unfortunate confluence of things happening that have gotten into this condition, but I 01:12:31.850 --> 01:12:41.389 - would rather let the time run out and say yes to release. All right. Thank you, Vice Chair. Treasurer 01:12:41.389 --> 01:12:51.582 - Schlegel? The Vice Chair said that more eloquently than I could have, so I will just say I agree. Thank you. 01:12:52.418 --> 01:13:02.869 - It's time to let these go. They're zoned for more development there. There's an opportunity zone. The 01:13:02.869 --> 01:13:12.501 - change is happening in this part of town. It's never going to get designated at City Council, 01:13:12.501 --> 01:13:16.702 - in my opinion. So let them move forward. 01:13:21.282 --> 01:13:31.624 - I'm thinking about what Commissioner Baker said. He didn't use the words demolition by neglect, but 01:13:31.624 --> 01:13:42.070 - that's a whole difficult problem that we don't want to be supporting in any way. And I share Mr. San 01:13:42.070 --> 01:13:50.654 - Luis' disappointment that he didn't get an answer on this, and I think I'd like to 01:13:52.034 --> 01:14:00.681 - see him communicate further with them and try to get an answer. All right, thank you. I agree with a 01:14:00.681 --> 01:14:09.498 - lot of the things all my colleagues have said. And I apologize to you guys that this has taken so very 01:14:09.498 --> 01:14:18.145 - long. But one of the things that the Historic Preservation Commission is in our power is to take the 01:14:18.145 --> 01:14:20.542 - time to look at properties. 01:14:20.930 --> 01:14:27.837 - and to really take the time to make the best decision we can. And it's important for us to do this because 01:14:27.837 --> 01:14:34.421 - these properties, you know, if you're looking at a 100-year-old house, I mean, I know that, you know, 01:14:34.421 --> 01:14:41.458 - a month or two months of delays seems like a lot, but it's not a lot when you compare it to the 100-year-old 01:14:41.458 --> 01:14:47.978 - house. So I support being very, very careful. I'm also cognizant of that our delays cost people time 01:14:47.978 --> 01:14:50.366 - and money, and I'm sorry about that. 01:14:50.914 --> 01:14:57.194 - At the same time, I feel like Mr. Sandweiss has some good questions. He'd like the state to answer. 01:14:57.194 --> 01:15:03.662 - I think these properties, I mean, they check some of the boxes that we could use to save them. I mean, 01:15:03.662 --> 01:15:09.942 - the unique brick, not just because of the Mitchell Brothers. We don't necessarily have to establish 01:15:09.942 --> 01:15:16.410 - a connection to the Mitchell Brothers. This is a unique type of brick that's used on, what, six houses 01:15:16.410 --> 01:15:17.854 - in all of Bloomington. 01:15:18.594 --> 01:15:26.665 - It's also, they're from an era where we also have a smaller sample size, also making them rare. I agree 01:15:26.665 --> 01:15:34.425 - with Commissioner Golden that they're in a zone that is changing, but that's sort of outside of our 01:15:34.425 --> 01:15:41.487 - purview. We're asked to look at the individual structures. And we have to take the context 01:15:41.487 --> 01:15:46.686 - into consideration. I think that's wise. But I also feel like I'm, 01:15:47.234 --> 01:15:55.812 - going to try to keep my blinders on and just look at these properties. And so I would support a delay, 01:15:55.812 --> 01:16:03.558 - which is why I made the motion. Surprise, surprise. All right. If we don't have any need for 01:16:03.558 --> 01:16:08.222 - more Commissioner comments, then we can move to a vote. 01:16:13.602 --> 01:16:22.292 - Okay, it's been moved and second on DD 2615 to continue to, if someone could rephrase that, my apologies. 01:16:22.292 --> 01:16:30.489 - Go ahead. I have the motion is to request to the hand director to grant additional time to a way to 01:16:30.489 --> 01:16:38.687 - response from the state and to investigate other options. Thank you. We'll go ahead and take a roll 01:16:38.687 --> 01:16:42.622 - call vote. Vice Chair Baker. Yes. Chair Butler. 01:16:43.618 --> 01:16:58.105 - Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Golden? No. Treasurer Schlegel? Yes. That motion to request additional 01:16:58.105 --> 01:17:11.262 - time is approved four to one. All right. So moving on to the next property, demolition delay 2616. 01:17:12.194 --> 01:17:19.539 - This is for 509 North Grant Street, same petitioner. Built in 1931, 509 North Grant is a hip roof red 01:17:19.539 --> 01:17:27.100 - brick four square with a half width porch with tapered posts and six over one wood windows and two stone 01:17:27.100 --> 01:17:34.445 - accents protruding from the wall beneath the centered second story windows. The house is a small rear 01:17:34.445 --> 01:17:40.926 - shed addition. This house replaced an earlier single story house with the same footprint. 01:17:41.922 --> 01:17:49.680 - or similar footprint. 509 North Grant was first owned by Harold P. Burgess, a salesman for Shell Petroleum 01:17:49.680 --> 01:17:56.931 - and his wife, Violet. From 1936 to 1940, they rented the house to several other young families. The 01:17:56.931 --> 01:18:04.326 - house was then sold in 1940 to Clarence Parrish, a cobbler and farmer who raised chickens and pigs at 01:18:04.326 --> 01:18:09.982 - a second property in the country where he and his wife, Grace, moved in 1943. 01:18:11.010 --> 01:18:17.617 - The house was then bought by Helen Noel, a secretary for the zoology and economics departments at Indiana 01:18:17.617 --> 01:18:24.099 - University, who rented spare rooms to students. In 1964, Paul and Dremme Stevens bought the house. Paul 01:18:24.099 --> 01:18:30.331 - was a mailman who had spent time as a prisoner of war in Germany, and Dremme P.G. Stevens served as 01:18:30.331 --> 01:18:35.006 - a state delegate for the Indiana Democrats. The Stevens moved out in 1985. 01:18:39.522 --> 01:18:49.431 - fairly similar situation to this. I included it in my determination of eligibility request. I have not 01:18:49.431 --> 01:18:59.724 - received any additional comments from the Department of Division of Historic Preservation and Archaeology. 01:18:59.724 --> 01:19:08.190 - Does the petitioner have any additional comments? Hi, Tim Cover, Flegate Architects. So 01:19:08.962 --> 01:19:18.223 - Our comments from the first round most apply again here. I think this house was kind of tagged on with 01:19:18.223 --> 01:19:27.484 - the other one because we got into a discussion about the brick on the other house. Both have been, the 01:19:27.484 --> 01:19:37.374 - question has been asked to the state as well. I would argue that silence is an answer. It's if the state felt 01:19:37.890 --> 01:19:46.509 - that looking at these houses would raise them to a level, next level for designation. I think they would 01:19:46.509 --> 01:19:55.045 - have said so. If they want to dig into the interior because they're trying to find something, the whole 01:19:55.045 --> 01:20:03.664 - discussion and the reason that we're still sitting here is because there was a feeling that the exterior 01:20:03.664 --> 01:20:07.358 - of these houses was significant in some way. 01:20:07.682 --> 01:20:18.211 - We've answered that question. The state has remained silent on the question and basically that silence 01:20:18.211 --> 01:20:29.047 - is to say it doesn't raise to the level of significance. So again, we'd ask that the projects be released 01:20:29.047 --> 01:20:35.998 - so that we can move forward. Thank you. Thank you. Public comments? 01:20:39.330 --> 01:20:46.570 - It's from Jan Sorby. She typed it and since she's having some issues, I'll read that. We also have a 01:20:46.570 --> 01:20:54.168 - comment from John Richards. So from Jan Sorby, it says, I urge the city to delay demolition until further 01:20:54.168 --> 01:21:01.766 - research can be conducted. The brick work is beautiful and unique and it would be a shame for Bloomington 01:21:01.766 --> 01:21:07.070 - to lose these two properties because of a lack of time to fully research. 01:21:08.450 --> 01:21:16.060 - I'm gonna go ahead and have John Richards unmute. And your camera, if you're able to on your end, your 01:21:16.060 --> 01:21:23.744 - video should be working now, John. Thank you, I appreciate that. Again, I'm counsel for the petitioner. 01:21:23.744 --> 01:21:31.427 - My comments with respect to this petition are the same as with respect to the last petition, and I also 01:21:31.427 --> 01:21:35.934 - echo what Mr. Covert just said, so we would request that the 01:21:38.018 --> 01:21:48.258 - commission follow the recommendation of the staff. Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comments in 01:21:48.258 --> 01:21:58.499 - the room? Okay, hearing none. We'll move on to Commissioner questions. Start with Commissioner Duffy. 01:21:58.499 --> 01:22:06.430 - Okay. No sir. All right. Thank you. Treasurer Schlegel. Yes. Vice Chair Baker. 01:22:09.666 --> 01:22:26.765 - So now we can consider a motion. Thank you Commissioner Gold. Do we have a second? Hearing none, would 01:22:26.765 --> 01:22:33.406 - anyone else like to formulate a motion? 01:22:39.682 --> 01:22:49.334 - same thing we're doing for 26-15 with this one? Is that okay to phrase that way? We are making a motion 01:22:49.334 --> 01:22:58.708 - to request 30 days additional time from the hand director to do further research. Yes, and allow the 01:22:58.708 --> 01:23:05.854 - state to provide a response. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I will second that. 01:23:12.194 --> 01:23:20.962 - So. Let's see which way you first last time. Chair Baker. I did him last time we go again first. Same 01:23:20.962 --> 01:23:29.901 - comments as last time with one additional talking about silence. In this case, silence allows the owner 01:23:29.901 --> 01:23:38.669 - to reconsider their position. And that's where I'm at with these. I think they have enough value that 01:23:38.669 --> 01:23:40.990 - we shouldn't act in haste. 01:23:41.570 --> 01:23:48.809 - I know the owners would rather that we acted in haste. But I think that we're doing our job better by 01:23:48.809 --> 01:23:55.906 - letting them reconsider what they might want to do with those properties. They may not do any good, 01:23:55.906 --> 01:24:03.358 - but that's the only tool that I see that we can use. Thank you. Thank you, Vice Chair. Treasurer Schell. 01:24:03.358 --> 01:24:10.526 - I still agree with Vice Chair Baker. He said it very well. No further comment. Thank you. Thank you. 01:24:11.458 --> 01:24:21.946 - Well, I do not assume that silence from the state means that they have found nothing of significance. 01:24:21.946 --> 01:24:32.229 - They specified that they wanted a little more information, so I would support this to allow that to 01:24:32.229 --> 01:24:41.278 - complete itself, to be completed. Thank you. I agree with Commissioner Duffy's comment. 01:24:42.018 --> 01:24:49.831 - I think that the state's position is that they would like more information. And so I don't think that 01:24:49.831 --> 01:24:57.645 - that necessarily translates that they're rejecting this. And so I don't see that silence as a call to 01:24:57.645 --> 01:25:05.534 - vote for the demolition. So I'm gonna be supporting a further delay so we can get all the information. 01:25:05.534 --> 01:25:10.590 - I think that's important. All right, can we get a roll call vote? 01:25:10.754 --> 01:25:19.859 - This is on Demolition Delay 2616. We'll go ahead and take a vote. Vice Chair Baker? Yes. Chair Butler? 01:25:19.859 --> 01:25:28.787 - Yes. Commissioner Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Golden? No. Commissioner Schlegel, or Treasurer Schlegel? 01:25:28.787 --> 01:25:33.118 - Yes. That motion to continue passes four to one. 01:25:40.450 --> 01:25:48.137 - Next item, demolition delay 2618. It's 425 North Roosevelt Street. Petitioner is Todd Saxtetter, who 01:25:48.137 --> 01:25:55.825 - I believe is online. 425 North Roosevelt is a minimal ranch with a windowless front door and a three 01:25:55.825 --> 01:26:03.664 - over three picture window. The house is three bays in width and one bay in depth with a metal roof and 01:26:03.664 --> 01:26:04.958 - aluminum siding. 01:26:05.890 --> 01:26:12.313 - Built in 1959 by Roscoe L. Sexton, a supervisor at the Indiana University Physical Plant and developer 01:26:12.313 --> 01:26:18.549 - of small houses in the Green Acres neighborhood, Roscoe and his wife, Martha, owned the house until 01:26:18.549 --> 01:26:25.160 - 1980, renting it to Indiana University students and faculty. First resident, John Wendell Black, enrolled 01:26:25.160 --> 01:26:31.583 - at Indiana University Law School after his service as a captain in the Korean War. And he lived in the 01:26:31.583 --> 01:26:32.830 - house for one year. 01:26:33.442 --> 01:26:39.915 - and would later retire back to Bloomington after a career with Bank of America. From 1960 to 1966, the 01:26:39.915 --> 01:26:46.514 - house was occupied by John and Barbara Beebe. Professor John Beebe taught Russian at Indiana University. 01:26:46.514 --> 01:26:52.987 - And although he specialized in medieval philology, his time at IU was mostly spent teaching in the Air 01:26:52.987 --> 01:26:59.775 - Force language training program. During the first half of the 1970s, the house was occupied by PhD student, 01:26:59.775 --> 01:27:03.294 - linguistic student, Rex Moser and his wife Ayako Moser. 01:27:04.194 --> 01:27:14.789 - The staff recommendation was release of demolition delay 2618. Thank you. Does the petitioner have anything 01:27:14.789 --> 01:27:24.698 - you'd like to add? No. All right, thank you. Public comment in the room? Public comment online? I do 01:27:24.698 --> 01:27:33.822 - not see any indication. All right, let's move to commissioner questions. Commissioner Duffy? 01:27:34.370 --> 01:27:46.668 - Mr. Gold? Judge Urschling? Vice Chair Baker? All right, so. I'm feeling like this might work. Do I hear 01:27:46.668 --> 01:27:58.729 - a motion? I'll move. OK. Have a little bit of an appetite. I move to release Demolition Law 26-18. Do 01:27:58.729 --> 01:28:02.750 - I hear a second? I'll second. OK. 01:28:03.234 --> 01:28:15.199 - I thought I hadn't. I didn't finish the sentence, I'm sorry. Okay, we have a motion. So now we can have 01:28:15.199 --> 01:28:27.624 - a discussion. I'll start with Commissioner Duffy. I'm satisfied with the staff report on this. Commissioner 01:28:27.624 --> 01:28:30.270 - Golden. Again, this is 01:28:31.042 --> 01:28:38.668 - We want to talk about contacts drive through this area now. That's going to be a big block. But it's 01:28:38.668 --> 01:28:46.219 - not worth seeing. Thank you. Treasurer Schlegel? Thank you. Vice Chair Baker? It's affordable. That 01:28:46.219 --> 01:28:53.996 - always hurts, seeing affordable housing go. But I think we have to save our best shots for those sorts 01:28:53.996 --> 01:29:00.414 - of houses that have what we think are architectural significance. This one has less. 01:29:02.818 --> 01:29:11.813 - deal. Not well. All right, thank you. I sympathize empathize with all the comments that have been made. 01:29:11.813 --> 01:29:20.808 - I think that this, you know, it's a very modest home and I hate to see very modest homes get torn down. 01:29:20.808 --> 01:29:29.544 - But there's very little architecturally for us to work with here. And there's doesn't seem to be any 01:29:29.544 --> 01:29:31.966 - individual that would marry 01:29:32.610 --> 01:29:43.203 - trying to save this, so I support letting it go. All right, so roll call vote. Okay, this is for demolition 01:29:43.203 --> 01:29:53.893 - delay 2618. There's a motion on the floor to release. Vice Chair Baker? Yes. Chair Butler? Yes. Commissioner 01:29:53.893 --> 01:29:59.582 - Duffy? Yes. Commissioner Golden? Yes. Treasurer Schlegel? 01:30:00.610 --> 01:30:12.590 - that motion to release it's been approved five zero all right thank you oh yes please today regarding 01:30:12.590 --> 01:30:17.758 - the property located at 425 North Roosevelt 01:30:18.082 --> 01:30:24.903 - The Historic Preservation Commission, HPC, declares that it got notice of proposed partial demolition 01:30:24.903 --> 01:30:31.724 - and after today's discussion, sees no need to review the plans any further and waives the rest of the 01:30:31.724 --> 01:30:38.946 - 90 or 120-day demolition delay waiting period for one year. The HPC may recommend the property for historic 01:30:38.946 --> 01:30:41.086 - addition to the Common Council. 01:30:42.530 --> 01:30:50.096 - I didn't read that correctly. The HPC may later recommend the property for historic designation to the 01:30:50.096 --> 01:30:57.516 - Common Council. Thank you. Sorry. This one's the last demo delay of the evening. Demo is going to be 01:30:57.516 --> 01:31:05.009 - 2619 for 121 South Jefferson Street. Petitioner Sherry Hillenberg. Petitioner, I believe, is present. 01:31:05.009 --> 01:31:11.326 - OK. 121 South Jefferson Street is a one story T plan post-war house with a half width 01:31:11.938 --> 01:31:19.267 - front porch, rear addition, board and batten siding, and a mix of three over one and new over one or 01:31:19.267 --> 01:31:26.523 - one for picture windows. 121 South Jefferson was built in 1951. It was inhabited until 1967 by Bert 01:31:26.523 --> 01:31:34.287 - and Martha Laws. From 1939 until 1977, Bert Laws worked as the announcer for Indiana University basketball 01:31:34.287 --> 01:31:41.470 - and football games, as well as the Little 500 bike race. Additionally, he served as superintendent 01:31:42.050 --> 01:31:48.527 - of maintenance and operations for the Bloomington campus. Martha was a violinist active in 01:31:48.527 --> 01:31:55.928 - several philanthropic groups including Tri Kappa and the Omega, no relation, and the Omega Club. Burton 01:31:55.928 --> 01:32:03.188 - Martha had lived in an apartment prior to buying 121 South Jefferson Street and would move in 1967 to 01:32:03.188 --> 01:32:11.230 - 4425 Cambridge Court, a mid-century split level house. From 1969 until 1985, the house was subsequently owned by 01:32:11.906 --> 01:32:18.447 - philosophy professor John Teenson and his wife Marianne. The couple moved to Memphis where John would 01:32:18.447 --> 01:32:24.988 - spend the better part of his career. Staff recommends the release of Demolition Delay 2619 with a bit 01:32:24.988 --> 01:32:31.530 - of an explainer here. Burt Laws was a well-recognized member of the Bloomington community with a long 01:32:31.530 --> 01:32:38.071 - career as a voice for IU Athletics, covering part of the golden age of Hoosier men's basketball team. 01:32:38.071 --> 01:32:41.598 - He's associated with several sites around Bloomington, 01:32:42.082 --> 01:32:50.203 - including his two or three of his residences, and sports venues including assembly hall and memorial 01:32:50.203 --> 01:32:58.323 - stadium. By national register criteria, to have some association with the significant person, sorry. 01:32:58.323 --> 01:33:07.168 - For a residence to be, I got lost. For a residence to qualify for its association with a historic individual, 01:33:07.168 --> 01:33:09.982 - we would need to have some sort of 01:33:10.210 --> 01:33:17.720 - association with a significant person's significant achievements, or else no better representative property 01:33:17.720 --> 01:33:25.160 - would have to be found. Frustratingly, the Indiana University Archives do not appear to have any documents 01:33:25.160 --> 01:33:32.183 - or interviews attributed to Mr. Laws, and local newspaper articles do not indicate that he conducted 01:33:32.183 --> 01:33:38.302 - any particular business at his house. Considering the lack of evidence to the contrary, 01:33:38.530 --> 01:33:45.644 - Staff does not consider this house a good representative property of Burt Law's career. Does the petitioner 01:33:45.644 --> 01:33:52.033 - have anything that she would like to add? The only thing I would add is a couple of things. One, 01:33:52.033 --> 01:33:59.015 - the house is, as you can see, it's in pretty bad shape. The previous owner lost her hand occupancy permit 01:33:59.015 --> 01:34:05.602 - because of the deficiencies in the house. It needs about a $26,000 roof repair. That's what you see 01:34:05.602 --> 01:34:07.710 - on the front. Why does it tarp? 01:34:07.810 --> 01:34:17.179 - been raining inside of it. And for whatever reason, when this house was constructed, it actually straddles 01:34:17.179 --> 01:34:26.373 - two lots that our legal lots of record never combines. I'm not really sure why it does that. So it seems 01:34:26.373 --> 01:34:35.392 - to us the best thing to do is to tear it down and replace it with something. All right. Thank you. Any 01:34:35.392 --> 01:34:37.406 - public comment online? 01:34:39.266 --> 01:34:47.933 - Any public comment in the room? All right. Commissioner questions. Commissioner Golden, we'll start 01:34:47.933 --> 01:34:56.774 - with you. No questions. All right, Treasurer Schlegel? No, I don't think I have questions. Okay, Vice 01:34:56.774 --> 01:35:05.441 - Chair Baker? No. All right, thank you. Vice, or vice, the other way. Commissioner Duffy, sorry. No, 01:35:05.441 --> 01:35:06.654 - no questions. 01:35:09.634 --> 01:35:19.682 - I don't really have any questions either. So do we have a motion? Move to approve the motion July 26, 01:35:19.682 --> 01:35:30.222 - 19. Do we have a second? I'll second. Okay, we have a motion on the table. Now let's have some discussion. 01:35:30.222 --> 01:35:37.118 - Treasurer Schlegel. Come back to me. I need a form. Okay, Vice Chair. 01:35:39.810 --> 01:35:52.644 - Commissioner Doe. Commissioner Doe. Architecturally this has no significance and based on Noah's comments, 01:35:52.644 --> 01:36:03.679 - there's no real connection to its owner. So I'm going to support releasing this. Thank you. 01:36:03.679 --> 01:36:07.038 - Director Schlegel? Not Doe. 01:36:07.170 --> 01:36:14.183 - what Jack said previously and just try to steal it from myself, but I mean, I always feel bad when houses 01:36:14.183 --> 01:36:20.800 - like this, but knowing more with your additional comments does help, especially with the lot thing, 01:36:20.800 --> 01:36:27.416 - that's just really odd. And I understand the, you know, it's not your fault you have this house now 01:36:27.416 --> 01:36:34.033 - that has all this damage, but it is always hard to see what is more affordable housing, but I mean, 01:36:34.033 --> 01:36:35.422 - there's a lot to it. 01:36:36.162 --> 01:36:44.328 - I struggle with it, but I can understand and sympathize with that. Yeah. Thank you. The only thing that 01:36:44.328 --> 01:36:52.415 - I would add is I grew up in a small house and I grew up poor. If there's a special individual that was 01:36:52.415 --> 01:37:00.267 - in a small house, I always want to try to save that small house as an example to the community that 01:37:00.267 --> 01:37:04.350 - you can come from a little place and do big things. 01:37:04.706 --> 01:37:15.629 - I don't think this quite reaches the bar for me for that. So I support this. Thank you. And now we'll 01:37:15.629 --> 01:37:26.123 - move on to roll call vote. Certainly roll call vote on 2619 motion to release a demolition delay. 01:37:26.123 --> 01:37:33.726 - Chair Baker. Yes. Vice Chair Baker, you just had gotten promoted. Yes. 01:37:34.018 --> 01:37:52.485 - Today regarding the property located at 121 South Jefferson the Historic Preservation Commission declares 01:37:52.485 --> 01:37:56.318 - that it got notice of 01:37:56.546 --> 01:38:04.184 - demolition slash partial demolition and after today's discussion sees no need to review the plans any 01:38:04.184 --> 01:38:11.747 - further and waives the rest of the 90 or parenthesis 120 day demolitions. The demolition would delay 01:38:11.747 --> 01:38:19.384 - waiting period for one year. The HPC may later recommend the property for historic designation to the 01:38:19.384 --> 01:38:21.406 - common council. Thank you. 01:38:24.066 --> 01:38:31.545 - So now we're moving on to old business, right? Yes. I mean, you'll see on your packet that there are 01:38:31.545 --> 01:38:39.172 - a couple of items under new business that are going to warrant a little discussion, but if anybody has 01:38:39.172 --> 01:38:46.650 - any old business that they'd like to bring up. Not seeing any old business people jumping up. We can 01:38:46.650 --> 01:38:52.574 - move on to new business. Okay. New business. Um, so I'd like to start with, um, 01:38:54.594 --> 01:39:06.031 - The first item under new business is a request for commission. Oh, you need leave? All right, I'll see 01:39:06.031 --> 01:39:17.247 - you Karen. Yes, yes. Your comments may be helpful. Your comments would be helpful, but if you got to 01:39:17.247 --> 01:39:21.022 - go. Okay, thank you Commissioner. 01:39:22.594 --> 01:39:31.345 - We have a project that may be coming up for demolition delay because it involves some exterior alterations 01:39:31.345 --> 01:39:39.851 - to a notable, I believe it's notable, maybe it's out, it's notable. A notable building, the Bloomington 01:39:39.851 --> 01:39:48.193 - Reform Presbyterian Church on 1st Street. I think it's 1st and Lincoln? 1st and Lincoln? Yes. Yes. So 01:39:48.193 --> 01:39:49.502 - the petitioner, 01:39:49.634 --> 01:39:56.699 - or not petitioner, the architect for the project, Barry Clapper, would like to present a little bit 01:39:56.699 --> 01:40:03.905 - about her proposal before it comes in for demolition delay. So we can make sure whether there need to 01:40:03.905 --> 01:40:11.041 - be any changes or any additional questions. So I'm going to start presenting you with some pictures. 01:40:11.041 --> 01:40:17.470 - If you're familiar with this property, I think we all drive down First Street on occasion. 01:40:19.458 --> 01:40:28.703 - This is elevations of the building as it exists now. So the proposed addition would be to the east elevation, 01:40:28.703 --> 01:40:37.444 - which you'll see. Those are coming out kind of black, but you could see it would consist of a two story 01:40:37.444 --> 01:40:46.017 - side addition. A three story. Three story, that's right. Somewhat step back from the front facade. Is 01:40:46.017 --> 01:40:48.286 - there anything you want to 01:40:49.154 --> 01:40:56.310 - describe about the project? Sure. So I'm Barry Clapper from Springpoint Architects and Adam Quirk from 01:40:56.310 --> 01:41:03.674 - the church who's on the building committee is also here in case you have any questions for him. We wanted 01:41:03.674 --> 01:41:10.690 - to bring this forward today. We know that this is a prominent church, a very beautiful building that 01:41:10.690 --> 01:41:13.886 - anchors a prominent corner and the church has 01:41:14.402 --> 01:41:23.598 - has been utilized in this, this building has been utilized for the last 100, almost 100 years. And they 01:41:23.598 --> 01:41:32.705 - very much love this building, but it has some significant challenges, mainly around accessibility. The 01:41:32.705 --> 01:41:38.718 - building is technically two stories and then a partial third story. 01:41:38.946 --> 01:41:47.473 - It's actually a split level church. So when you walk in from the east side or from the west side, you 01:41:47.473 --> 01:41:55.832 - enter into a stair landing and you go up to the sanctuary level or down to the fellowship hall. The 01:41:55.832 --> 01:42:04.359 - main stair, which is at the corner, you actually go up that half story on the outside and then go in. 01:42:04.359 --> 01:42:07.870 - So it's difficult to get into this church 01:42:08.258 --> 01:42:17.547 - In addition to that, the restrooms are very minimal. There are essentially two restrooms serving the 01:42:17.547 --> 01:42:26.837 - entire facility at this point. So this addition really is a reinvestment in this building so that it 01:42:26.837 --> 01:42:36.034 - will continue to serve the congregation into the future. And in addition to addressing those needs, 01:42:36.034 --> 01:42:37.598 - so there will be 01:42:37.730 --> 01:42:46.043 - There will be an elevator added and we'll be more than doubling the fixture counts and the restroom 01:42:46.043 --> 01:42:54.605 - facilities with the addition. We'll be able to actually create a zero entry off the South parking lot. 01:42:54.605 --> 01:43:03.167 - So because the building, the lower level of the building is partially below grade, we're able to catch 01:43:03.167 --> 01:43:04.414 - up at that one 01:43:04.770 --> 01:43:12.987 - one location and actually bring people in from the parking lot into that lower level. And then there'll 01:43:12.987 --> 01:43:20.966 - be an elevator that will serve all three floors. So while it is three floors, it's aligning with the 01:43:20.966 --> 01:43:29.341 - floors of the existing building. I just want to make that clear. Anyhow, so that's... I'm happy to answer 01:43:29.341 --> 01:43:30.526 - any questions. 01:43:32.450 --> 01:43:41.381 - the project, we wanted to bring it before you. We'd be coming back for partial demolition. Actually, 01:43:41.381 --> 01:43:50.401 - almost all of the east elevation would remain intact. We were proposing a narrow addition just on the 01:43:50.401 --> 01:43:57.918 - east side. I just want to explain that. We studied the east side and the south side. 01:43:58.466 --> 01:44:06.759 - where the east side seemed to be the most preferable because the sanctuary gets natural light from the 01:44:06.759 --> 01:44:15.053 - north, the west, and the south. And the natural light in that space is really important to the worship 01:44:15.053 --> 01:44:23.185 - experience. And all of the service areas of the building are stacked against the east side. So while 01:44:23.185 --> 01:44:27.614 - there are these lovely stained glass windows on all of 01:44:27.970 --> 01:44:36.166 - all elevations in the building, they actually face into storage rooms or support rooms on the east side. 01:44:36.166 --> 01:44:44.206 - So what we're able to do is to reutilize those windows in the new addition. We'll be able to reutilize 01:44:44.206 --> 01:44:52.012 - all of them and we'll make a plan for the remaining openings that are there. So that's an explainer 01:44:52.012 --> 01:44:57.086 - as to why we're doing what we're doing and where we're doing it. 01:44:58.178 --> 01:45:08.487 - Okay, so we just wanted to bring this before you tonight. And see if you had any thoughts or suggestions 01:45:08.487 --> 01:45:18.697 - or concerns. Well, my concern, and this isn't a deal breaker in any way, is the facade of the building, 01:45:18.697 --> 01:45:26.846 - I wanna keep that front facade, it's very square. Yes. And so by adding on to the, 01:45:27.522 --> 01:45:36.541 - side there, I mean, there's a tension, right? You bet. So, I mean, that would be the... So it is a classical, 01:45:36.541 --> 01:45:44.741 - a re-provival building is fully symmetrical, and what we're doing is altering that symmetry. Right. 01:45:44.741 --> 01:45:53.186 - And that's understood. But I also understand your parameters, so... So what we're doing to help offset 01:45:53.186 --> 01:45:54.334 - that is we're 01:45:54.850 --> 01:46:03.881 - pushing the addition back as far as we can to expose that corner, which is pretty critical, actually. 01:46:03.881 --> 01:46:12.736 - So you can still read the original form and the presentation of the church. That impressive primary 01:46:12.736 --> 01:46:21.590 - elevation hopefully isn't diminished while continuing all the detailing and such so that it's not a 01:46:21.590 --> 01:46:24.158 - jarring addition in any way. 01:46:24.290 --> 01:46:30.761 - sort of the fenestration, the punched openings, that whole language. We're trying to be as quiet as 01:46:30.761 --> 01:46:37.361 - we can be and as respectful as we can be of the building. I appreciate that. Any other? One I want to 01:46:37.361 --> 01:46:43.832 - say, I think you took the words right out of my mouth, Barry, when you said this is a reinvestment. 01:46:43.832 --> 01:46:50.303 - I think that's a phenomenal way to look at it. I think it's great that the church is doing well and 01:46:50.303 --> 01:46:53.150 - needs to expand and have better facilities. 01:46:53.506 --> 01:47:00.185 - I wasn't here in the late 90s. I was still in high school. But the history center, how we had our edition 01:47:00.185 --> 01:47:06.486 - brought on. And it's clear. I mean, you can see, original Carnegie building, not Carnegie building. 01:47:06.486 --> 01:47:12.849 - And I see that in the same way. And I was trying to figure out how to ask about the style, but John, 01:47:12.849 --> 01:47:18.142 - you already covered, or Jerry, you already covered that. So I think it's fantastic. 01:47:18.274 --> 01:47:25.194 - And Mary, you've brought other projects before. They're always well laid out, well planned. A lot goes 01:47:25.194 --> 01:47:32.114 - into it. So I'm actually kind of excited to see more and hear more about this. I think I see no reason 01:47:32.114 --> 01:47:38.966 - why I wouldn't vote in favor of it. And the only question I have, and it's just curiosity personally, 01:47:38.966 --> 01:47:45.685 - is for the, since it would be a demo delay in part, how, I guess I'm asking how you're attaching it 01:47:45.685 --> 01:47:46.558 - or how like, 01:47:47.202 --> 01:47:54.287 - how the new addition's gonna, you're gonna get access to the original part. And I'm just curious. Sure. 01:47:54.287 --> 01:48:01.509 - And I know the interior's not our purview, but I'm just genuinely curious. No, no, it's a great question. 01:48:01.509 --> 01:48:08.458 - So what we're going to do is remove the stairs out of that staircase. So we will utilize the opening. 01:48:08.458 --> 01:48:13.022 - Well, the openings are offset, because they're a half story. Okay. 01:48:13.410 --> 01:48:22.950 - And we haven't gotten to the detail yet, but we'll probably reconstitute it if we can. I'd like to leave 01:48:22.950 --> 01:48:32.126 - that brick exposed from the inside and perhaps shift those openings so that they can then serve that 01:48:32.126 --> 01:48:42.302 - lower level and the upper level. So the stairwell is the only element that will be reconfigured to some degree. 01:48:43.138 --> 01:48:50.110 - But there will be a new wall that will hold up the new floor structure that will be up against the original 01:48:50.110 --> 01:48:56.888 - east wall. So we won't be using that wall in any way structurally for the new addition. Does that answer 01:48:56.888 --> 01:49:03.473 - it fully? Yes, it does, thank you. And I'm very excited you're reusing the stained glass and a lot of 01:49:03.473 --> 01:49:10.058 - that, keeping the original brick wall. I just think that's, I like architecture and history, so to me 01:49:10.058 --> 01:49:12.382 - I'm like, ooh, that's kind of neat. 01:49:12.610 --> 01:49:20.229 - Yeah, that will be there. Any other thoughts from Jack? Vice Chair? Could we go to the drawing, 01:49:20.229 --> 01:49:28.880 - the revised? So what I'm seeing, what you said, we're on the right-hand side here, which is which elevation? 01:49:28.880 --> 01:49:36.976 - That's the east side. That's the east elevation. No, if you go to the model stuff, it might be easier 01:49:36.976 --> 01:49:41.182 - for everybody to see. So you see slightly different. 01:49:43.394 --> 01:49:50.875 - If it's a good idea, I like what you said there. You're getting light from three different directions 01:49:50.875 --> 01:49:58.503 - by putting your new addition on that side. You're not really blocking anything. You're actually opening 01:49:58.503 --> 01:50:06.497 - up the others to light. Questions are, are you able to duplicate materials, brick? You're able to duplicate? 01:50:06.497 --> 01:50:11.998 - We will not be able to duplicate it. It's a very rich, multicolored brick. 01:50:12.546 --> 01:50:19.862 - There will be no way that we could find an exact match. So what we will do in a case like this is find 01:50:19.862 --> 01:50:27.037 - a complementary brick. There are a number of different colors, and then we can pull out one of those 01:50:27.037 --> 01:50:34.140 - colors that will work well. And that's something we want to do because we want to show that this is 01:50:34.140 --> 01:50:41.386 - built at a different time. And so we want to distinguish the old from the new. So the brick will help 01:50:41.386 --> 01:50:42.238 - us do that. 01:50:42.818 --> 01:50:50.762 - That is one of the bigger challenges of the project is to find the right brick. Some lines of demarcation 01:50:50.762 --> 01:50:58.480 - in the building then. Exactly. Exactly. Are you able to match windows? Are you replacing windows other 01:50:58.480 --> 01:51:06.049 - than your stained glass? Are you having to buy new? So there will be some windows. We have a certain 01:51:06.049 --> 01:51:11.070 - number of windows that we can work with that will be relocated and 01:51:11.458 --> 01:51:20.885 - We have more openings than we actually have windows. So we've talked about having new windows made in 01:51:20.885 --> 01:51:30.404 - the style of the old windows. The light in the building is really extraordinary, especially at certain 01:51:30.404 --> 01:51:37.982 - times of the day. So it's a really important architectural piece of the building. 01:51:38.114 --> 01:51:48.742 - So we're hoping to be able to replicate as well as we can those existing stained glass windows. How 01:51:48.742 --> 01:51:59.477 - will you handle new roofing? So we will. There is an asphalt shingle roof on the building now. So we 01:51:59.477 --> 01:52:05.854 - will be over framing the existing roof. So it's a hip roof. 01:52:06.754 --> 01:52:16.412 - And the form of the new roof will be the same, it will be a hip, and so it will over frame the existing 01:52:16.412 --> 01:52:25.978 - roof. So we'll be matching that. We'll be matching that. Now we may, we haven't gotten to this detail, 01:52:25.978 --> 01:52:35.358 - but you can see that we're pulling around all of the limestone accents, but there is quite an ornate 01:52:35.746 --> 01:52:43.042 - kind of freeze at the top, it's sort of like a dental crease. I'm not sure if we'll fully replicate 01:52:43.042 --> 01:52:50.339 - that. We may do a little bit more of a streamlined version of that. Of the gear? Yeah, just of that 01:52:50.339 --> 01:52:57.635 - detail, which is a little bit fuzzier. And I feel like that's appropriate, maybe not to do the full 01:52:57.635 --> 01:53:05.150 - thing. Again, helping to distinguish what's new and what's old and that this is built 100 years later. 01:53:05.858 --> 01:53:13.389 - Oh, great. And I'm reading this. This was typed out by Jam Sorby, who is here and is not able to say 01:53:13.389 --> 01:53:21.366 - this based on audio. Jan said, the petitioner reached out to the neighbors, which they greatly appreciate, 01:53:21.366 --> 01:53:28.971 - and wrote, the addition was thoughtfully designed and carefully positioned to minimize its visibility 01:53:28.971 --> 01:53:30.910 - from surrounding streets. 01:53:31.682 --> 01:53:38.151 - The congregation insisted on using brick to preserve the building's architectural character and has 01:53:38.151 --> 01:53:44.686 - demonstrated a strong commitment to remaining at this location. The neighborhood is delighted by the 01:53:44.686 --> 01:53:51.608 - church's investment in its future and its continued commitment to being an integral part of the community. 01:53:51.608 --> 01:53:58.142 - And again, that's from Jam Sorby. Thank you. My two cents? Yes, please. OK, so I don't like to leave 01:53:58.142 --> 01:54:01.118 - people in suspense, so I'm just going to say, 01:54:01.442 --> 01:54:08.993 - what my staff recommendation is going to be. I think this is a perfect illustration of how to build 01:54:08.993 --> 01:54:16.543 - an addition for a historic building, which obviously varies on a lot of these. It is differentiated 01:54:16.543 --> 01:54:24.094 - but complementary to the historic building. It's to a large extent reversible, though I don't think 01:54:24.094 --> 01:54:30.814 - they'd ever want to reverse it. It's appropriate in scale, it's set back from the front, 01:54:31.010 --> 01:54:38.012 - You can tell what's going on and I, you know, I just think it checks all the boxes of one in addition 01:54:38.012 --> 01:54:45.358 - to historic building, particularly one of this stature should be. Thank you. Thanks. I do have a question. 01:54:45.358 --> 01:54:52.498 - Before I ask this question, I'm going to say this looks great and I support it. It's about the process, 01:54:52.498 --> 01:54:58.814 - so this is demolition delay. So we really don't have a preview over what's going to happen? 01:55:08.354 --> 01:55:16.113 - That's my experience in the past. So is the church historically designated? The church is not historically 01:55:16.113 --> 01:55:23.873 - designated. That's my point. So Jeff is correct. You have your purview over the request for the demolition 01:55:23.873 --> 01:55:31.125 - delay and the release of that. But if it's not a historically designated building, they do not need 01:55:31.125 --> 01:55:36.926 - to come back with a request for a CLA. They can just go straight to permitting. 01:55:37.474 --> 01:55:45.552 - So I'm taking this as you all coming here to let us know that this is what you intend to do. Right, 01:55:45.552 --> 01:55:53.954 - and I really appreciate that because that makes the decision easier. So if there are particular aspects 01:55:53.954 --> 01:56:02.356 - of the design that you would like us to follow up with you on, we're happy to do that. I think it looks 01:56:02.356 --> 01:56:06.718 - great. If there's any issues, we're happy to do that. 01:56:06.914 --> 01:56:14.999 - The preference at this time is that the church would prefer not to be designated. And so we thought 01:56:14.999 --> 01:56:23.650 - that this would be the best way to kind of work collaboratively with you. Appreciate it. And we appreciate 01:56:23.650 --> 01:56:29.310 - that. All right. To bury no flat roots, that'll carry half the water. 01:56:29.442 --> 01:56:35.768 - for the whole structure. We do have a little bit of a flat room, though we do. I asked, Barry came out 01:56:35.768 --> 01:56:41.480 - and looked at it. And Barry was like, that flat room. And I was like, yeah. All right, well. 01:56:41.480 --> 01:56:47.806 - This is great. OK, thank you so much for your time tonight. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thanks. 01:56:47.806 --> 01:56:51.614 - Thank you, Barry. OK, so you'll see us hopefully in December. 01:56:54.946 --> 01:57:02.145 - So there's the historic district subcommittee renewal on our agenda. So if you look way back, those 01:57:02.145 --> 01:57:09.704 - of you who are here, which I think is everybody in this room, to January or February of this year, there 01:57:09.704 --> 01:57:17.335 - were some changes to Title II, which handles boards and commissions, which changed among or now requires, 01:57:17.335 --> 01:57:22.302 - among other things, that all subcommittees of boards and commissions 01:57:23.650 --> 01:57:32.943 - be approved by city council. So we are going to have to get the historic district subcommittee re-approved. 01:57:32.943 --> 01:57:41.720 - I was talking with Deputy Clerk Crosley today about that process. It sounds like city council's still 01:57:41.720 --> 01:57:50.669 - working out what this is gonna look like. So I think, I'm hoping we might be able to get an application 01:57:50.669 --> 01:57:52.734 - to get the subcommittee 01:57:53.282 --> 01:57:59.644 - renewed in some time in January or February. So the subcommittee can still meet this December, but it 01:57:59.644 --> 01:58:06.442 - may be the case that we'll miss a meeting or two. I'm just not sure. What's the purpose of the subcommittee? 01:58:06.442 --> 01:58:13.116 - The subcommittee is for working with historic districts, either ones that are developing their guidelines. 01:58:13.116 --> 01:58:19.477 - Yeah, either developing guidelines or questions about people who want a designated district. It's all 01:58:19.477 --> 01:58:21.598 - this sort of public facing stuff. 01:58:24.194 --> 01:58:30.175 - So the deputy clerk is working through what that process might be, whether it goes to full council or 01:58:30.175 --> 01:58:36.097 - to the committee on council processes. We've offered to submit a letter on behalf of this board kind 01:58:36.097 --> 01:58:42.196 - of indicating the importance of this subcommittee and how it is a public outreach arm of the commission 01:58:42.196 --> 01:58:48.118 - to maybe use that as a model for these are the kinds of subcommittees we want to keep and we want to 01:58:48.118 --> 01:58:53.982 - continue to reach out to people, other opportunities to come in front of members of the commission. 01:58:55.106 --> 01:59:01.984 - So Noah is directly engaged in figuring out how to get it done. Thank you. We appreciate that. Yeah. 01:59:01.984 --> 01:59:08.795 - All right. So that concludes new business. Any commissioner comments? We have an event coming up at 01:59:08.795 --> 01:59:16.286 - the History Center. It's December 11th, which is a Friday. To celebrate, it will be Indiana's 210th birthday. 01:59:16.738 --> 01:59:23.811 - No, I brought an extra one for you, or I can send you a digital copy. But it's Hooch and History. Cardinal 01:59:23.811 --> 01:59:30.686 - Spirits is a co-sponsor. We'll have alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks, so people won't feel pressured. 01:59:30.686 --> 01:59:37.297 - They have to drink. It just talks about Indiana's history 210 years ago. It's limited to 50 people, 01:59:37.297 --> 01:59:40.734 - and it is a ticketed event. Is there a charge? $20. 01:59:40.930 --> 01:59:46.567 - So pretty good deal for two lectures, a couple of drinks, and going to see all of our exhibits 01:59:46.567 --> 01:59:52.858 - and everything. So we've sold some tickets. They just went up yesterday at noon. So if you're interested, 01:59:52.858 --> 01:59:59.089 - definitely. And I have more of these, or I can send an attachment, whatever people would like. So that's 01:59:59.089 --> 02:00:05.141 - all I had. Did he send an email with an attachment? I don't know if I have your email. Yeah, he could 02:00:05.141 --> 02:00:08.702 - send it to you now. I wasn't sure what was allowed, so. OK. 02:00:09.122 --> 02:00:18.418 - public comments since they seem to have left unless there's someone online let's see anybody else that's 02:00:18.418 --> 02:00:27.272 - still online has not either responded asking them who they are or they and they've not raised their 02:00:27.272 --> 02:00:36.126 - hand okay well that's seeing any indication that's good enough for me I hereby adjourn this meeting