Welcome, everyone. Please come in and find a seat. I want to be really respectful of people's time tonight.
So come in and join us. There are plenty of seats in the front. Also, there are people who will welcome
you to sit next to them, even, yeah, CM Zulek in the house. So we're going to get started here.
slowly so people can keep trickling in. And I asked Councilmember Zulek to co-host with me tonight.
And I'm going to say a few opening words. I don't know if you want to say anything. But just to get
us warmed up and sort of set
what I'm hoping for tonight. I was greeted when I came in by somebody who said, I heard you already
made your decision, and we're just here to encourage you. And I want to assure you, I am here to listen,
because where we are is in a place where we haven't had
good public input, and by good, I mean anything that's not three minutes at the mic responding to a
proposal. And so I want to be clear tonight. Kirkwood is just a community gem. It's not just a street.
We all use it. We use it in different ways. It is a vibrant center for our city.
And it is for a lot of people, it is some semblance of a third place. It's where you can go and see
your friends. It's where you go and bump into people that aren't your friends yet, but they might be
soon. And as you all
You probably know we began closing Kirkwood during the pandemic in the last administration so that people
could eat outside and so that there was sort of more space in a center gathering.
My administration looked carefully into whether or not to close Kirkwood this year and decided that
it was not in the best interest to close it this year. And we've drafted an extensive memo
I am not going to outline those things for you tonight. That memo is available publicly. We'd be happy
to provide you a link to it. And if you have computer accessibility issues, I'm happy to go print it
for you. So tonight, I want to be clear is about your ideas and it's about your experiences.
but it is not about lobbying the mayor to do something. I am really interested in what your experience
of Kirkwood is and having this be a solution-oriented session for us. To that end, we have framed several
questions that you may want to consider when you are making some comments.
And those are up on the screen. You may not be able to see all of them right now. You're not required
to answer one of these questions. But these questions are framed so that we can stay solution-oriented.
This is a conversation, again, not actually a deliberation session. We're not co-deciding anything tonight.
You are informing me before I make a decision, and Council Member Zulek represents this district. I'm
really grateful for all the input that you have already secured from your constituents and for your
active participation in the Kirkwood Community Association and Downtown Bloomington Incorporated, both
of which have either officially or unofficially weighed in on this topic at times.
So here are some things to know as we are moving forward. Our transportation plan calls for Kirkwood
to be a shared street. And shared means that it's accessible and open to vehicles and to motorized vehicles
and to bikes and pedestrians.
We have on our agenda in the coming year a plan, a Kirkwood corridor plan, which seeks to engage
professionals who are skilled at looking at places like this and getting the most out of them. And so,
we will be offering whatever input that we get tonight to those professionals, because no matter what
I decide about the Council's
resolution, the council's ordinance, we will still be doing that plan. So your words are not wasted.
Whether I end up vetoing or not, they've been heard. And we will continue to incorporate them. And our
great team on city staff is taking copious notes tonight. And so is Sydney.
I want to just sort of outline for you all, I am a pedestrian, I'm a cyclist, I also drive a car. I
do all three things. I have a deep understanding for people-centered streets, and a very deep appreciation for
how built environment leads us to either build community with one another or not. And that's an important
piece of these decisions that we're making and the future plan for Kirkwood. My job as the mayor, obviously,
is administration and implementation of ordinances such as these.
It's my duty to decide what's in the best interest for the good of the whole of the city. And so I know
we all have different experiences on Kirkwood and different things we treasure about that space. I am
going to ask you all to speak from your own experience.
Hopefully to stay solution-minded. I am interested in hearing what's good about Kirkwood already, what
we need to keep, no matter what we do. I'm interested in what would make you more likely to use Kirkwood
and what it'll take to get there. I know some of you are business owners or commercial property
residents in some way, we're interested in your experience. So we are interested in hearing from you
on the impacts of this. Kirkwood has been really full at times over the past five summers. Those tend
to be event times. And we have contracted, Talia's here tonight, I think we contracted with Talia to do some
some activation of Kirkwood. And so, you may be hearing tonight about how the activation is going, and
we're eager to talk about how we can make Kirkwood the best it can possibly be. I'm also gonna encourage
you to be really aware of how many people are in this room who want to offer their thoughts and their
experiences.
Sometimes in these rooms, we can hear, yeah, I want to agree with this. And then you repeat it. If the
comments been heard, we will take it into consideration. And we're interested in everybody's ideas and
just an awareness when you do have the mic of how many other people want to speak. And I'll also encourage
people to speak just once until everybody who wants to has had a turn. Do you want to say anything?
Thank you. Thank you all for being here. I'm really looking forward to learning more about your different
perspectives. Some of the things that I am keeping in mind when we're making this decision is obviously
I'm blessed to have Kirkwood in my district, but we do spend a lot of money on Kirkwood and I'm interested
in better understanding how we might spread that love across the full city.
The other thing is that I can't stop thinking about is we are in a time period where we do not have
an abundance of financial resources. And so when we think about making this decision, is this the best
use of the funds that we currently have available? And so I am hoping to learn more from you all on
how we as a city feel about that. But yeah, thank you for being here, and I will be taking copious notes.
So thanks.
Awesome. You are done now hearing from elected officials tonight. We are interested in hearing from
you all. I'm going to read some questions that are up on the screens right now for those who cannot see them.
We were interested in what you love about Kirkwood and what problem the city should be trying to solve
on Kirkwood. So if we have an ordinance, there's something we're trying to solve, right? What would
make Kirkwood more vibrant during the summer? The last couple years, it's been pretty dead outside of
events and especially during the day.
So especially when IU students are not here, how can we make it a vibrant place? What should the city
be careful not to lose about Kirkwood as it exists today? What would make you more likely to visit Kirkwood?
How do we make sure a public space is truly public for people with different physical needs? What makes
it easy or difficult for you, your family, or others to access Kirkwood?
And what have you noticed during previous closures that worked well or did not work well? Please don't
answer all of those questions. Those are just meant to help frame some thoughts. And again, not a lobbying
session. We're really interested in solutions and what we wanna get out of Kirkwood. Desiree is gonna
move around with the mic.
It is important that you use the mic because we have friends at home who are listening and those friends
are not going to have verbal comment time, they're gonna submit comments in writing. So who would like
to, yes, over here Desiree. You could also use this mic too if Desiree doesn't get to you, okay?
Hi, my name is Wayne Shepherd. I've lived in Bloomington most of my life. Kirkwood has been a part of
my life since, well, for at least 55 years now. So it's very important to me. First off, I wanted to
say that, you know, I'm a 69-year-old man with breathing issues. I have fairly serious lung issues.
That makes it hard for me to get around sometimes. And the other day I drove around
Between seventh and third and between Washington and Indiana and I counted and there's 22 handicapped
parking spaces in that 16 block area So what we're talking about doing tonight is getting rid of eight
of those handicapped parking spaces for seven months of the year it's already an issue for a lot of
people with with physical disabilities to get the areas of Kirkwood and
Especially when students are in town and there's like zero parking. So I just think that's something
that we need to keep keep in mind. But on the positive side I have friends who live in Ann Arbor and
I go to visit them quite often and I don't know who here knows about Ann Arbor but they have an area
very much like Kirkwood. It's called the Main Street District and they regularly close off roads.
there during the school year and during the summer. But they also have parking garages, I think four
major parking garages within two blocks of the area in each direction. And they also have petty cabs
that run continuously through the area. The petty cabs I'm particularly interested in because they have
a partnership with the city. They use city garages to switch out the petty cabs.
The city makes a little bit of money off of it, the company makes money off of it, and it creates new
jobs for people who want to drive people around. So it seems to work out really well. I've talked to
a few of the drivers, they say they make really, really good money doing it, so I don't see why it's
something we can't consider. Hi, my name's Jerry Hayes.
Closing certain blocks of Kirkwood could negatively impact our senior population with those with physical
disabilities, as the gentleman just said, by restricting people's access to businesses in the area.
Navigating around closed streets can be inconvenient and potentially unsafe for older adults and people
with disabilities. Closed streets may disrupt public transportation routes.
making it difficult for the seniors to reach these businesses, especially if they have mobility issues.
Street closures and parkless reduce availability of parking spaces, making it harder for seniors and
people with mobility issues to access the businesses. And I love to eat at an uptown cafe, Michael.
For many older adults, people with disabilities, visiting local businesses is a way to stay connected
with the community. Street closures can lead to increased isolation and reduce social interaction.
According to census.gov, the U.S. population is experiencing a shift toward an older demographic across
the nation. This demographic changes part of the long-term trend with projections suggesting that by
2034, just nine years, there will be more people over 65 than under 18. It is estimated that there are
10,000 people turning 65 each day in the U.S.
It's important to consider the needs of an aging population and people with disabilities when planning
street closures to ensure they can continue to access businesses and maintain their quality of life.
We shouldn't ignore our aging population. They are a growing segment of our population. Kirkwood was
originally closed outside dining permit in response to COVID-19 pandemic.
When inside seeing was reduced due to social distancing, reducing inside seeing, that is no longer needed.
I was in Chicago a few years. When I checked in the hotel, the desk clerk, when she saw where I was
from, she said, she told me she graduated from Bayou, and she says, Nick's still there? So, you know,
Nick's, or Kirkroyd's a special place. It doesn't have to be closed,
special it already is. In the back by the door. Hello. My name is Sharlee Davis. I have retinitis pigmentosa
and I lost my eyesight in
I lived in Bloomington except for a year or two since 1974. What I'm having trouble with and what's
been very disheartening for me in listening to the meetings and the write-ups in the paper is the Americans
with Disabilities Act, the ADA, hasn't been talked about at all. And it's part of the Civil Rights Act.
People fought for decades to get this passed.
culminating in thousands of people at the Capitol sliding out of their wheelchairs, putting aside their
walkers, and crawling up the steps of the Capitol to get this passed. And now it seems some people aren't
even... they're ignoring it. Title II and Title III of the ADA says, it prohibits reducing or limiting
accessibility. It prohibits reducing or limiting accessibility.
How is this not reducing or limiting accessibility? Now, don't get me wrong, I think it'd be great if
Kirkwood could be closed and everybody could be accommodated. I just haven't heard this discussion at
all. Like I said, it makes me feel invisible. And if access were allowed, I don't know how ambulances
are gonna maneuver, but if access were allowed to take their clients,
It's not like they would enter at Indiana Avenue and go clear down Kirkwood. The most they would be
there would be one block. You'd enter from a side street, drop off your client, go to the next side
street. That's what I wanted. I just want to hear a discussion about it. I hope Kirkwood can be opened,
and I hope everybody can enjoy it. There is the ADA. Prohibits reducing or limiting.
That's my hope, is that this can just be part of the discussion, please. Thank you. Good evening. My
name is Mark Lockley. I am a local real estate developer here in Bloomington. I see that there are a
couple of us here. I've had the privilege of redeveloping places like the Smith Holden Music Building
and the corner of Hillside and Henderson, where FEDA is.
I support the vision of creating a more vibrant and pedestrian friendly downtown. However, I don't believe
that the current proposal to close Kirkwood to vehicular traffic is really well thought through right
now. A decision of this magnitude really requires a broader understanding of who the stakeholders are,
not just the businesses on Kirkwood, but especially the small businesses and on surrounding streets.
Downtown residents, students, visitors, people with disabilities,
who rely on convenient access. There are more important questions that still need answers. How will
businesses not located on Kirkwood compete if they don't have outdoor seating? Where will customers
park? How far would those people have to walk? And what will be the economic impact of permanently
eliminating almost 100, if not more than 100, parking spaces?
What makes Bloomington special isn't the national chains. It's businesses like the Uptown, Lenny's,
Hartzell's, Osterio Raggo, Soma, Greetings, Donor Kebab, Farm. Those are the businesses that give our
downtown its identity. And we should be careful not to adopt a plan that unintentionally makes it harder
for them to survive. Before making this change,
I encourage the city to complete a comprehensive economic impact study and consider the alternatives
Maybe like a downtown trolley that connects parking garages with Kirkwood and the surrounding streets
Let's make a decision on data broad community input and a long-term vision that benefits all of Bloomington. Thank you
I'd like to speak to what the city should be careful not to lose. I'm Reverend Carmen Ray, I'm the senior
minister of First Christian Church and I speak for my congregation and also we are an umbrella organization
for many other organizations that operate out of our building at 205 East Kirkwood.
All congregations, we have people of a variety of ages and a variety of physical abilities. And so already,
being a downtown congregation is a struggle, can be hard for people to access the building. So there's
the obvious issue of parking and having to park further away from the church, which makes it difficult
for people to be able to get in, decreasing participation in our faith community from people who have
been part of this community for decades.
But one of the greatest challenges for our church location is our very limited proprietary parking.
If you have visited our church, you'll notice we own six parking spaces. Those spaces are located in
the alley between our church building and the Campbell House, which is also owned by First Christian
and currently houses Habitat for Humanity.
parking spaces must be accessed from the alley that runs in a north-south direction from Kirkwood to
6th Street. And since those spaces are angled and the alley is super narrow, that parking can only be
accessed from Kirkwood Avenue.
Back in February of 2025, when the outdoor dining program was being considered, Representative Zulek
and members from the Economic and Sustainable Development Department visited our site and we walked
them through those logistics and they were able to see for themselves the hardships that would be created.
We would lose all of our proprietary parking.
In addition to housing, the activities of our congregation, First Christian, shares its building with
a number of community partners, including Stages Bloomington Theater, Narcotics Anonymous Recovery Groups,
Lotus Festival, Traveling University, the American Red Cross, the Mobility AIDS Lending Library or mall,
a group that would be extremely negatively impacted by the accessibility issues that would be created
if cars can't travel on Kirkwood.
All of our partners will suffer by increased difficulties of accessing our building and accessing parking.
That's a change that creates negative consequences for dozens and in many weeks hundreds of people in
a week's time.
Our church has consistently shown up to promote health, safety, and compassion for our neighbors and
with the greater Bloomington community. Our welcome table breakfast continues to feed over 125 people
in poverty, including many who are unhoused every Sunday morning. We're one of the two founders and
one of the three current hosts of the Bloomington Severe Winter Emergency Shelter, which provides a
safe place for sleep when weather conditions are life-threatening. Those programs have made life better
in this city.
for people who are suffering and for the city to now encumber our ability to conduct our day-to-day
operations and limiting parking seems to me to fly in the face of the spirit of community that we've
striven so hard to foster. We've been a good neighbor to the city. First Christian asks the city to
be a good neighbor to us and the people we serve.
I think it's me.
So I'm not going to repeat everything. I've been at multiple City Council meetings, and I've said a
lot. I'm not going to repeat everything I've already said. I do want to say, though, that the notion
that we haven't had enough public comment on this seems a little bit silly to me. We've been talking
about this ad nauseum for six years straight. We've had plenty of public comment, I think. But nonetheless,
I appreciate the opportunity to speak again. One thing I did want to mention is that Bloomington has
roughly 240 miles of streets, city streets. 100% of those right now are
cars are allowed on them. We're talking about moving that from 100% to 99.86% by making Kirkwood car
free. I don't really think that's a huge astronomical amount to make one pedestrian car free street
that's a tiny percentage of the city's overall network. I think that's a small thing. Another thing
I wanted to mention is, Mayor Thompson, I've heard you mention multiple times about how you'd like to
bring more young professionals into Bloomington.
A car-free street is exactly the sort of thing that attracts more young professionals to a city. So
building something like that, a well-designed car-free street is exactly the sort of thing that would
attract the people that you say you want to bring. And I think that's all I want to say for now. Thanks.
Hi, my name is Ducky. I am 25 years old. I am not originally from Bloomington. I came here in 2019 just
before the pandemic.
I started my life here as a Circle K employee. And once the pandemic hit, I lost my job. And I had to
turn to DoorDash and Uber for a few years until somebody totaled my car. And then so on, so forth. That's
not important. As a delivery driver for a couple of years,
found a lot of struggle on Kirkwood even when it was open because parking is not adequate period. We
are already investing in more parking garages. I think we should continue and expand that further. Somebody
mentioned another city having multiple parking garages. I think that would benefit us greatly and I
think it could still
be accommodating for people with disabilities. And something I think we should really consider, I know
it is kind of a cost, but we're already moving towards it anyways. We need to really consider making
it more of an open-air mall space. Consider Denver, Colorado, or my home city, Portland, Oregon. They've
thrived off of walking cities.
They've found plenty of ways to make it accommodating for people, both driving, walking, cycling, whatever
the case may be. Somebody else mentioned a trolley system and that was really validating for me because
I also was thinking people can still ride somewhere and not have to walk. And we can keep it simple.
Trolley's aren't that hard to keep up. And if we're gonna close it for,
the majority of the year anyways and only leave it open during like the worst time weather-wise of the
year when nobody's out anyways? Why are we spending the money to keep opening and closing it? It kind
of seems like a waste of our time and money and resources. I also think we need to install more public
restrooms that are available for everybody. Not only would that help the students, but I think it would help
home population of Bloomington because to use a restroom in Kirkwood, you usually have to go and buy
something somewhere. And I don't think that's really fair. People got to use the bathroom. I think that's
most of what I have to say. Thank you. Hi, good evening. My name is Elliot Lewis and we've been in business
for over 50 years. We're the third largest provider of parking in downtown.
Next to the city, of course, and I you we rent to over 20 commercial tenants of all types of businesses
and sizes What I'm going to tell you is very fact driven If you go back a little over 20 years, and
I'm not trying to make everybody hungry at 6 o'clock by mentioning McDonald's but McDonald's is one
example of what happened when we had a
a lengthy closure to Kirkwood when the infrastructure was redone to assist the Jordan River to continue.
And if McDonald's can't make it, what's that gonna say about other restaurants and their survival rate?
A more recent example would be the unfortunate situation of a couple months ago, the night of Little Five.
we ended up closing and locking our front doors to posh on Kirkwood because we were just taking extra
precautions. So if we can't handle a large crowd on Kirkwood, why would we be inviting more of the same?
I'm not suggesting that we didn't do a good job, but it's very, very hard to contain
certain situations, and I don't know that we're equipped to do so. Let's go to more facts. Let's go
to Ontario, Canada. And there, a study was done five years ago of the economic impact of what would
happen for a lengthy closure like what is being proposed. And all the businesses in downtown Hamilton
participated. It was a lengthy, lengthy study.
like the kind of study you'd expect from Mayor Thompson. And the results were that revenue was down
27% to 38% across the board of all the businesses from a lengthy closure. And when you look at 27% to
38% of a decline in revenue for any kind of business, let alone small businesses,
Most of them won't survive. We all know how to get to Bloomington. We all know how to get out of Bloomington.
And I'm really puzzled by this question. Why would we have all of the traffic that comes to Bloomington
because we reside here, all the other traffic that we're trying to generate with tourism or other things
that go on in our fine town, and only let them drive on Kirkwood for one block
before we direct them out of town on Walnut. I just don't see the merit in it. With the council's decision,
it just seems like it's short-sighted. They're not taking into account a lot of the things. And I know
Kerry said not to repeat anything, but I wholeheartedly repeat the ADA concerns. My mom was in a wheelchair.
and I used to drop her off all the time, or my dad would drop her off in front of Uptown, and lots of
people in those situations can't make it to the next block. And we have to be very cognizant of that,
because we have lots of people coming to town that are physically challenged, lots of people that are
here physically challenged, and that is just a huge concern.
I'm very appreciative of those here tonight that are echoing that so thank you very much So Can you
hear me okay Mitchell farmer speaking as just private citizen
I want to go back to the questions, because it seems to me the choice whether it's open or closed this
year is binary, right? So if we're looking at a future direction, which is what the question's addressed,
I want to call out two things. What doesn't work right now when it's closed? There's no infrastructure.
It is hot. There's no place to sit. There's no place to go to the bathroom, get a drink. Any plan like
this only works with infrastructure and investment. So it needs a plan. There's lots of really good
points that have been raised, but it needs a plan.
I would also say don't shy away from it because it has complexity. I'm hearing a lot of don't do it
because type reasons. These are solvable things. There are examples across the country of cities that
have implemented things like this, including Indianapolis around the Super Bowl. But the thing that
I want to point out is actually bullet point number three, which I think is an assumption that needs
to be addressed. Bloomington summers are not the way that they were. They're not the way that they were
20 years ago when I moved to town. They're not the way they were in 2019. This idea of,
Just making due until the students get back is a long-term strategic problem for the city that I think
is solvable by acknowledging that we are probably, and I'm a resident, I've lived here, this is gonna
be a loaded statement, we are increasingly becoming a resort town for the university, right? We are
looking like cities that have traffic for nine months out of the year or six months out of the year.
Infrastructure development and compelling public spaces will help us move through that because it will
augment and complement the convention center, which has been decided it's going forward, it's being
built. So really downtown needs a plan. We need to stop operating on the assumption that we just gotta
make it till the IU students get back. We need to be able to bring in a broad base into the city all
points during the year. And my last thing is IU should be at the table for this. Kirkwood is the front
door to the campus. So I believe public private partnership, the foundation owns buildings up and down Kirkwood,
Like, if they care, they should be involved in this discussion. I made a similar point about the convention
center. IU was oddly quiet about that. But they benefit from the infrastructure, too. Bring them in.
So if you want to know what elements would make a successful future plan, I think that's essential that
they be a part of it. That's all. I just want to say, we do have somebody from the university here.
I don't know where she went, but I saw Rachel Jones McAfee today.
They're here, they're an active part of the conversation. I just want to acknowledge, not absent at
this point. Yeah, I just wanted to clarify. I get around town on my bicycle almost all the time. When
Kirkwood is closed, it's much more difficult for me to get through
than when it's open to vehicles. As a biker, I much prefer it to be open. It's more complicated to have
it closed. Before I came to Bloomington over 50 years ago, I lived in Evansville. Evansville, many decades
ago, decided to try closing Main Street, which is their equivalent of our Kirkwood. It was great for
about a year, maybe two.
Then things went downhill and they eventually were losing businesses and they had to open it up again.
Thank you. Yeah, I wanna speak a little bit to the IU, or sorry, Bloomington as like a tourist town
or whatever. This close? Okay. I think that I've been here for 30 years and I think that dynamic has
definitely increased over the last,
maybe 10 years or so, but I want to dispel the myth that it is a resort town. There are kids here in
the summer. The city just, I think, struggles to engage them. I think even looking at this room,
you know, the largest cohort of this town, which is 40% of the population between the ages of 20 and
30, are rarely represented or engaged in this community.
We employ about 60 of them in town. And I've taught at IU. We have a ton of interns of that age. And
many of them want to see it close. And they want to be engaged. The infrastructure isn't great. I think
we come up with funds and resources when we want to. We're paying for a $71 million convention center.
We have a $35 million park and switch yard. There's a talk of a quarter of a billion dollar jail.
You know, we can get creative with funding. I'm a believer in that. And while the mobility issues do
need to be resolved, I think it would be just so sad to just retrench ourselves and have it in open Kirkwood.
Yes, Chris Sturbaum. You know, the shocking statistic is since 1977, 400 of these have been experimented
with in this country. 12 have survived. And I've been to Pearl Street in Boulder, and people go to Boulder
for great reasons. They had a four block, one of the 12 that succeeded. And they recently, just last
year, were going to keep two more blocks
The designer of Pearl Street was against closing off permanently the other two blocks of Pearl Street.
All of the merchants were against closing it off to automobiles. And it was going to be on the ballot,
but it was withdrawn because of the opposition, people who knew these the best. And the designer said
the longer these are, the worse they fail.
We're proposing a five block one in a much smaller community. So That's those are those aren't good
odds folks. Thank you Okay, I may have residential seniority in this room I've lived in Bloomington
for 70 years I was operations manager of Bloomington Transit for 10 years. I am now retired. I want
to make it very clear that
that I'm stating my opinions and observations, I don't know what those of Bloomington Transit are. But
when Kirkwood was, when they began closing Kirkwood, it created significant routing and scheduling
discrepancies for Bloomington Transit, forced bypassing five or six of the most well-used stops in Bloomington,
Specifically, you can't get to the Monroe County Public Library on Bloomington Transit anymore. Kirkwood
was built as a city street, not as an outdoor food court, and I think it should serve its purpose as
a thoroughfare. Hello, my name's Colin Nielsen.
I wanted to start out by saying that I want to echo the person over here who talked about investing
in infrastructure like water fountains, benches. I also want to add trees as well to that list. I did
some research prior to coming here about some successful pedestrian malls in cities like Madison, Wisconsin.
I think there's Burlington, Vermont. There was Charlottesville, Virginia. All of them were some of the
few cities that did not have their
pedestrian malls to convert it back into streets like like the gentleman over here mentioned it is about
about 400 cities tried this for the past several decades and For my research has had about 30 remain
or so I think what all those towns that I mentioned have in common is that they are all college towns
and they have Dense downtowns and they do range in population from 45 to like a hundred and thirty or
so thousand for Madison but they became
these pedestrian malls became very important hubs for their communities, and while they received initial
pushback from business owners, like for parking, accessibility, eventually, they did... the increased
pedestrian activity did support them. And for cities like, say, Kalamazoo, Michigan, or Rockford, Illinois,
which did convert their pedestrian malls back into thoroughfares because they considered them failures,
Those downtowns were already dying by the time that they introduced the pedestrian malls, and they were
trying to make a... there was a last-ditch effort, essentially. And I think with Bloomington, the downtown
is very vibrant, and I think Kirkwood could support a pedestrian mall, because I don't consider the
downtown dying. I consider it very vibrant. There is a large student population that do not own cars
and that do not rely on parking.
Also, for the matter of, like, say, handicap accessibility parking spaces being removed, like the eight
parking spaces, I think the solution is to add eight, to convert other street parking into handicap
parking rather than throwing out the idea entirely about pedestrianizing Kirkwood. In fact, I would
be supportive of even more than eight being added. I think that people who can walk should,
walk further distances in order to help the people who are with disabilities. I think, and I am willing
to walk those further distances, and many people are in order to accommodate that. I'm willing to walk
long distances in Walmart to pick up my groceries. I'm willing to walk long distances in the college
mall in order to go to the shops I want to go to, and I would rather not have cars running in between
the stores than in the mall.
and I think because it makes for a more pleasant experience. However, right now, the way the curcuit
is configured, it is configured like a thoroughfare, but that is because right now, the road is designed
to be like one. I think as a stopgap measure for closing it every summer and just leaving it the way
it is, I think it isn't really very effective long-term. I wouldn't really be supportive of continuing
it. However,
I would want the city to look into actually pedestrianizing the street, and thinking of long-term solution,
and investing in infrastructure such as trees to increase shade, to help people who are vulnerable to
heat, and water fountains, benches, placemaking, things like that, so that it can actually attract people.
Because right now, even in the previous years, when I would
to Kirkwood, I would still stick to the sidewalks, even when the street was open to pedestrians. I'd
only go in the street to, say, eat on outdoor dining, mainly because of two things, because the buildings
provide shade, so I'd stick close to them, and two, just because the street of asphalt is pretty inviting,
uninviting compared to brick pavers. And all of the cities I mentioned that have successful things such
as Madison, they all use brick pavers, they all have
Trees going through the center as well. They all have trees planted in the center to provide shade for
people and I think that introducing elements like that could make it so that It'd make it easier to
walk there more pleasant to walk there that it isn't a heat island And yeah Hi, I'm Tristana you that
was pedestrianized in 1987 and
which is from Indiana East to Maxwell Hall, maybe two weeks ago, and people were taking all kinds of
graduation photos in front of the gates, but also in front of the IUD buildings and Dunwoods. And I
don't think there's a single person who said when Bloomington pedestrianized Kirkwood that that was
anything less than a success. We've already pedestrianized Kirkwood. That block is great. I want to
expand that.
I'm all for pedestrianizing Kirkwood. And in my experience, my family lives in Burlington, Vermont.
I've spent a lot of time on Church Street visiting my family during Christmas when it's snowing on Church
Street. Any problem that anybody now, Burlington's already dealt with. Their ADA compliance of door
openings is up to, I think there's only
The last I looked was like three businesses. These are not issues. If you look and you actually go where
it worked, they've already dealt with it. My brother, he's part owner of a camping supply store in Burlington
and the outdoor gear exchange. It started in 93, about two blocks off of Church Street, off
the pedestrianized area. And then they moved and they moved again
And then they moved a fourth time consecutively closer and closer and closer to the pedestrianized area
where the last time they went from a block off onto Church Street and they bought their building. It
was always their goal as a business to be on Church Street and they succeeded at it and it worked for
him and it was like,
30-year project for them to get to Church Street. And they did. On Kirkwood, or rather, I've been, like,
some of the better experiences are more exceptional, like that Grand Faloon that was downtown, that
was fantastic. The other side of the coin is I went on a bike, I've been hit by cars twice in Bloomington.
One's on Kirkwood in Indiana and the other on Ninth in Indiana. And, you know, what's the median age
in Bloomington 25? Not even old enough to rent a car because you can't insure it because people under
25 are just categorically bad drivers. And that's my experience. It would be much safer if we had a
transportation system that moved people and not just automobiles.
And granted, Kirkwood is not, the downtown mall isn't gonna be anything but one facet in that transportation
system, but the more you get people out of cars and into society, the better we'll all be, and the happier
people are gonna be. Hi, I'm Jeff Meese, 45.
year resident of Bloomington Cyclist, had a business on Kirkwood that we sold to some employees, Lenny's.
I can imagine years down the road, Kirkwood being a pedestrian mall, I think it's bad timing. I think
we have to get there organically, just the way IU lays paths down after they've discovered where students
walk, I think, when we have
a dozen or more popular festivals on the street happening in the summer, that it's gonna be obvious.
I think it'll be obvious, and it's clearly not obvious now, which is why it's so contentious, so I'm
against it. Hello. Hi, I am Mark Fraley, and I've lived in Bloomington for about 17 years now. And just
to answer the question, what do I love about Kirkwood?
Pretty much everything. I absolutely adore the places to eat, to dine, to see music and plays at the
Buskirk Chumley. It is an absolute gem and an absolute treasure. And so I really appreciate Council
Member Zuluk and Mayor Thompson for holding this meeting and allowing us to be able to express this.
When I saw about right after it
Kirkwood was open, I ran into Councilmember Rosenberger on the street and she was asking people's opinions
about keeping it over longer than past COVID and at that time I thought, you know what, that sounds
like a really nice idea. Since that time I've developed a progressive neuropathy condition which actually
makes it really difficult to walk. So if I can't get access to one of the handicap spots, then that
means other handicap spots are being taken. I'm walking two, three, four blocks
to be able to access a lot of the city services. By the time that I'm getting to my destination, I have
sharp pains that are gonna be rooting up from the arches of my foot up into the lower extremities, creating
a much more difficult position for me to enjoy the third spaces that we have. My condition is something
that I, you know, God willing, is temporary, and by the time that this goes into effect, it won't even
be an issue and I'll be walking it along. But I know that for many people in our community, what's temporary
for me is permanent for many others.
And my hope is that we can protect these spaces for those folks while looking over the long term to
increase pedestrian spaces, to be able to create third spaces and create a vibrant Kirkwood. I think
that the goal is beautiful. We're not there. And I hope that we can really take into account people
with mobility issues while we're thinking about these situations over the short term. Thank you.
with their hands up for a long time that are waiting. But I tell you... I'll be super quick, because
I don't like talking in front of people. I've written many letters. You know how I feel about everything.
I'm gonna talk two things. I'm gonna go to the second bullet point that says, what problem should the
city be trying to solve on Kirkwood? And I'm going to say, there is no problem that we need to be solving
on Kirkwood. To my knowledge, those businesses are doing great.
there's a problem of a shooting during Little 500, which is a huge issue, but that's not gonna be solved
by this. And so, I just wanna say, I don't think that anything's wrong with Kirkwood that we need to
be solving. My second thing, as Downtown Activation Coordinator, I've been doing programming on Kirkwood,
and I believe in it. I 100% believe that someday, just like Jeff said, we could have a pedestrian mall
in Bloomington. I don't think we're there yet. We need tons and tons of infrastructure
everyone here has talked about. We need bathrooms, we need shade, we need electricity, we need tables,
we need all kinds of things, and I think we could get there. I think it's premature to close the road
down now. Yeah. Is it on? Okay. So I'm Lisa Orr, my own lowland company downtown. I've been there 18
years, and I
Everybody's kind of circled around this, but it's kind of like if you build all of this infrastructure
on Kirkwood and put all these beautiful bathrooms in and park benches and trees, it is just going to
explode our unhoused community even more. And I really don't, until we can implement a plan
to get that under wraps and to control it a little bit better. It's just going to continue growing.
You can't really sit down on Kirkwood right now when it's closed and enjoy an evening with young children
without watching someone pee in front of you or smoking whatever they're smoking to the other side of
the street or yelling, screaming at people. It's just not
pleasant place to be when it's closed until we control that problem. And I don't have that answer.
My name is Martha shed I'm going to respect the idea that we're not going to duplicate what other people
said but I want to just kind of piggyback on that what Jeff said about You know the path of the way
that the students go creates where they put a sidewalk We've got a convention center coming which may
dictate Kind of there's going to be traffic patterns. They're gonna be shopping patterns I think so
I think to the point of is it too soon Do we need to do more we wait till that kind of thing happens and I?
I waited to speak until this late because I kept thinking maybe somebody's gonna say what problem this
is gonna solve and I haven't heard it. Hi, I'm, oh sorry, please. So, J.T. Forbes,
live in the McDole, love it there. Don't ask me how I know it's exactly one mile from my front door
to Nick's. Okay, not every joke lands, sorry folks. Lenny's isn't far away, I love your pizza and your
stuff there. I want Bloomington to be a how can we community, and I think it shows glimmers of that
a lot. But we're gonna have to earn our place. If we wanna be a place people visit, we're gonna have
to earn it.
It's not just granted because this is an extraordinary community that we love. When I look at how we
do that sustainably in this particular issue, I don't know that I really have a position of open or
close. I think we gotta start looking deeper. We gotta look past the surface and solve for at least
three issues that I see. The summer population cliff, the people of Bloomington go on vacation, the
students that populate the year that drive a lot of this activity,
aren't gone, and the number that stay in the summer is reduced from what I observe. I don't have facts
for you today, but we've got a summer population cliff that impacts the current proposal. Also, the
unique physical layout of Kirkwood needs to be something we look at practically. There are areas adjacent,
and this is not a new idea. This is stuff I learned from listening to the council meeting.
The council members that oppose this had some good ideas and they noted that 4th Street already has
the tree canopy and so maybe we're getting in a functional fixedness fixedness Approach this it's Kirkwood
or nothing So I think we have to address this unique physical layout and then the unglamorous and everyday
operational costs for this to work it has to be cleaned it has to be staffed it has to be programmed and
We ought to all be proud to live in a community that's invested in so many amazing spaces. We have this
amazing park, like Martha Shedd, my wife, who's wise and awesome, noted the convention center, Switchyard
Park, the new urban park we've created at Hopewell, and other spaces that have been enhanced. And I
think we need to think about this in a way where we realize those all cost money
And for us to do what we might want to do, it's going to compete against jails that will also need to
be addressed, vulnerable people on our streets that's costly to address. And I'm not saying we shouldn't
do it, but I'm saying we're going to have to make choices. And the thing I see lacking in the city council
debate and discussion and in the bigger picture is a clear plan. It's not just about opening Kirkwood.
It's about having a plan and being pragmatic.
What can we afford? What can we expect from people in terms of their own choices of whether they're
going to show up on the streets in one condition or another? And also, what is our long-term vision
of how we're going to earn this? Because what we've been granted is a legacy that has to be preserved
and sustained. And so I just want to keep that all bigger picture stuff in mind as we make a decision
about a street.
It's more about whether we're a how can we community. I would say I agree. I think it's an incredible
oversight to say that you're going to close Kirkwood for eight months without a promise of investment
in infrastructure, in accessibility, in maintenance. But if we're going to sit here and complain about
watching people use the restroom on the sidewalks, I think that's what you need is an investment in
public restrooms, an investment in
places to sit in a third place. That being said, as a pedestrian and as a cyclist, I love when Kirkwood
is closed to cars. I feel much safer. I don't have to consistently be looking over my shoulder. I, too,
have been hit by a car while cycling on Kirkwood. It's already not really a safe space. And so, yeah,
I support the closure. And I think if you want to do it well, you do need a plan.
you do need to invest. I'm going to acknowledge that it is 6.30. We planned this last minute, and I
planned it, and Council Member Zulek was kind enough to co-host with me.
She is going to have to depart in about 10 minutes. Would you still vote to extend council, to extend
comment even in your absence? Okay. I will just say if anyone wants to chat about this, I'm more than
happy to just from the council perspective. My email is sydney.zulik at bloomington.in.gov.
Shoot me a note, happy to meet. So thank you all for coming today.
I will stay and listen and we are taking good notes. So if you still have a comment, raise your hand
pretty well so we can see you and get you a mic. First of all, I want to thank you for your vision for
opening Kirkwood this summer. It's nice to have Kirkwood back. This is the most alive I've seen downtown
in several years.
I also thank you for your transparency as mayor, especially on this topic and many others. I really
appreciate that. I don't have a horse in this race. I've been here 40, 50 years. I walk. I ride an old
Schwinn bike. I drive a Harley, and I drive a car. And I'm constantly downtown daily. I eat lunch downtown
probably four or five times a week.
and have for many years. Maybe this is something that nobody's addressed specifically, but as we all
know, Kirkwood's the heartbeat of downtown Bloomington. I love this city. I'm gonna support the downtown
businesses as long as I live here, regardless of the outcome of this. My personal belief though is
With all due respect to City Council a five to four decision is certainly not a mandate And if you think
about it only one vote One vote Determines the outcome unless this is vetoed and I think that a more
representative way to approach this as it affects not only Bloomington's future for many years to come
But also the residents the people that live here
Whether you're in town or you're in the county, it affects us all. My proposal is to open this up and
let the people speak, not a select few. And by doing so, I would propose having this voted for by the
people during an election at a referendum. I think that is clearly the way to go and let the voices be heard.
And I will live with either result. But I have a lot greater feeling that the community would truly
be best represented if we allowed everyone input. Thank you. So this is coming from someone who wants
a walkable downtown street and came in wanting to go that way. And after hearing a lot of really good
opinions and ideas. I do think we'll see a time when it should happen. And the biggest issues I'm hearing
are parking and accessibility. Personally, from my perspective, the best way to solve that is to always,
if we want to increase the density, we're not going to get any more land. We have to build vertically.
Many people were unhappy seeing the high rises and the hotels. But all that did was increase the density
and number of people who could access downtown areas.
So any parking lots, and there aren't many downtown, it should be built vertical, like more parking
garages to make it more accessible, get more people downtown. Then we'll see the density increase to
its, okay, maybe now we should consider closing it off just for pedestrians. Hi, my name is Bill Mackey.
I'm a resident of 52 years.
few years here and there where I was gone. I'm in an odd position in that I have parents who have lived
here not quite 70 years, so the gentleman that had the 70 year tenure has got him beat, but not terribly,
not by a ton. My mother is now legally blind, has mobility issues due to a broken leg that she suffered
at some point.
She would be thrilled to know that Jeff Meese was here because Lenny's has been one of her favorite
restaurants indefinitely. She suffered a very lengthy departure from being able to attend that because
walking further than maybe 200, 300 feet is an extreme challenge for her. And my father and her were
thrilled this summer to be able to make it back to Lenny's during the summertime when it's open.
Of course, then I also have children who are on the other end of the age spectrum, senior at Indiana
University, who probably is seen on Kirkwood about 12 hours apart from the time that my parents would
normally be there. And I think that when the road was closed, it was failing both segments of that population.
It was failing my elderly parents. Their favorite restaurants were largely inaccessible.
Due to parking, of course, if the road is open, my father could simply drop my mother off with somebody
else. Discussions about their being, is there parking right in front? Well, there are people who are
able to be dropped off in convenient locations near those types of things. Those restaurants certainly
lost my family's business for a lengthy time. Again, apologies to Mr. Meese for that loss of business
when he owned those restaurants. And likewise, with my older daughter,
In the times that the road has been closed, it has absolutely attracted an element of the community,
which has been mentioned a few times earlier. My daughter, generally speaking, has not been approached
in the middle of the road when the road is open, but she certainly has been propositioned in the middle
of the road when the road is closed, because you have a lot of people who basically don't have any place
to hang out who decide that's a great place to hang out.
They're not really doing anything productive and of course they're not necessarily doing anything criminal,
but they are harassing a lot of our young people. And I think that we can't overlook the fact that while
yes, some of us have some animosity towards the college students, some of those college students are
our students as well. Some of those are the students of residence that have been here for a very long
time. And I think we need to consider
Both of those groups of people, when we're making decisions like this, I also want to just briefly address
the idea of safety in the cycling community that we've had in here. I don't believe that the only solution
to making it cycling safe is by closing the road altogether. I mean, this is being made out as if it's
well if we want to protect people. The only way to protect people and to make them safe is by
closing the road completely. I think that's creating a binary choice, which is a false choice. I don't
believe that's actually the only way to do that. I do appreciate you giving us a chance to speak our
minds on this today, and your courage to address this issue head on. Thank you.
Hi, my name is Alex York I am a young professional with two young children, so I'm gonna first speak
from that perspective I
Maybe I'm not there quite as late with my young children or something, but I can say that when the street
is closed, I am much more likely to bring my family there. I am much more likely to be there. I feel
like my children are safer. We visit the businesses there more often. You know, it's so wonderful to
go to that outdoor seating. And while we wait for food to let kids just very safely wander in the streets,
it is magical.
That type of infrastructure change, it attracts me to stay. It attracts me to go to downtown more. The
other perspective I'd like to bring in is a much longer view, climate change. I believe that of every
level of government, local governments have the hardest challenge when it comes to climate change because
we fundamentally need to
remake the fabric of our communities. We need our communities to be more sustainable, which means denser,
which means more walkable, less card dependent. And that is difficult. There's no one project in Bloomington
that accomplishes that goal. But this project would go a long way. It would be a big one towards that goal.
I am hearing a lot of valid concerns today, and I do want to own that. I think that the heart of most
of those concerns is something called car bias. Something called car bias. We have lived in American
cities that are so car dependent for so long, we can't imagine what it's like to move away from that.
problems that have to be solved. Accessibility, parking spots, there's lots of problems that have to
be solved. But that just means we need a smart plan. And it is my belief that if we don't have that
political leadership and push it forward and decide to do it, that plan will never materialize. So I
hear the people who are saying that they think that this is a
good future thing and that it's inevitable but we're not ready, I think if we don't decide to do it,
we will never be ready. And that when we decide to do it and we start doing it, we'll figure out what
a lot of those problems are. We can't right now say, if we close Bloomington to vehicle traffic, where
and how many bathrooms do we need? But if we close it to vehicle traffic,
we can then start adding the bathrooms and figure out where they need to be. So the current system that
we've had of closing it part year, I think, is a half measure. And it does no favors to anyone. We need
to close it, invest in the infrastructure, and move forward in that direction if we're going to do it.
Thank you.
On this side, really quick, my name is Roberta. I am representing Goodfellas Pizzeria on Kirkwood. I've
been the GM there for four years, so I have seen when we've had the roads closed and open, the position
of our company is that we like it open. I can give you some examples, not just from our company, but
from myself, what I noticed.
this gentleman behind me was talking about when it's closed, that the people that come to Kirkwood,
it brings people just in that center lane where we are, or the center of Kirkwood, a different,
let's see, I just wanna word it correctly, just a different type of, just people hanging out and not
really doing anything, there's only,
two restaurants that utilize the parking spaces for restaurants. So basically, for deliveries, we can't
get deliveries. Well, we can, but it's much harder. There's 95 spots that end up being gone. And I've
seen that when we've had stuff going on during the winter, they just put no parking signs up. So we're
still able to close Kirkwood on a whim if you want
do something local and have a fun event going on. But basically, it's just very hard when the road is
closed. And one last point is I live on the other side of town near Walmart, and I tell everybody about
our store. And I can tell you a lot more people come down to Kirkwood
when it's open and when the students are gone, they like it, there's more parking, they can run up,
grab a bite of different places to eat that they've never tried before because they're scared to come
down to Kirkwood when there are so many people there. So yeah, that's my point, thank you. Hi, my name
is Hillary Martel. I'm a local downtown business owner and I have been to several of the City Council.
Super close.
I've been to several of the City Council meetings that have addressed this issue, and the thing that
I found find frustrating is making Kirkwood carless does not make it a pedestrian mall. Closing off
Kirkwood for five blocks of traffic, in my personal opinion as a downtown business owner, really just
create, what I've seen has created a concrete desert. People are not able to park, they're not coming down.
And there are certain people that do enjoy coming down and being able to hang out in the streets and
have their kids play in the street. One important factor that has never been talked about is any successful
pedestrian mall, from Charlottesville to Burlington to Iowa City to Boulder, all of those cities that
have created successful pedestrian malls, they have a strict no bike riding policy in place in their
pedestrian areas.
It is a strict dismount and walk your bike. I know people that are proponents of closing Kirkwood. A
big factor of that is making Kirkwood more bike friendly, when in reality, in my opinion, if it's done
properly, if you are having kids play in the street while their parents are a few feet away sitting
at a picnic table not observing them, and especially with e-bikes and people going 30 miles an hour.
Last summer I saw numerous e-bikes with teenagers, and I see it on the city streets as well, but that's
a totally separate issue.
If you are allowing these closed blocks open to e-bike traffic with no zero control, no lanes, and you're
allowing children to openly wander around, people freely walking, and it's open to bicycles that are
capable of going over 30 miles an hour, that is certainly a pedestrian safety issue. So that's a big thing.
that people are proponents of closing Kirkwood that I think that they don't realize any successful city
that has a pedestrian mall, you are not allowed to ride a bicycle on those areas. Hi, my name is Scott
Coffin. I came here for school and my partners
in the grad program at IU, but Kirkwood and Bloomington in general has become so important to who I
am and how I participate in our community. I think that closing Kirkwood would be beneficial to the
community of Bloomington. I think some things that some people have said here today are really important.
Kirkwood, a portion of it has been closed to cars and it has not reopened to cars. Something that Jenny,
Jeanette has said in New York City is that once you close it, people won't want it to come back. They
closed Times Square to cars, cars aren't coming back. Cars don't buy things as well. If we incentivize
people on the street, people go to businesses. I think that the changes on Kirkwood can be incremental.
I think that there have been a lot of concerns with accessibility and those are very real concerns,
but we can learn
through the closure of Kirkwood, how we can make it better and better and better and better. I think
that closing it is beneficial right now, and I think that we should continue to do that moving forward.
Thank you. Hello. I've been an Uber driver in this town since Uber started, and it's getting more and
more and more difficult in that area.
And when Kirkwood is closed, it creates, if you're down there at nighttime, an incredible traffic problem.
And it keeps the flow of traffic, and I know it's just, it's so much easier to find the people that
are looking for you when Kirkwood's open, because when Kirkwood's closed, you have to literally call
the person that's trying to find you, and they might be,
at Raising Canes and you're at KOK, or right there at Dun and Fifth, you gotta find your people. And
that creates a long line of traffic as the night wears on. And it creates, it makes it very difficult.
I think Kirkwood's a great place. I think that the way we've been doing it, where we close it for specific
festivals works fine. I just don't think that we can
Right now, closing Kirkwood creates an incredible difficult situation, especially in the evening from,
say, 10 p.m. to 3 a.m. It's inconvenient, and I'm not just saying for me, but I'm probably for other
door dashers or people like that that have to park their car somewhere and walk a quarter mile to pick up
their order and then walk back to their car. It just, the flow is so much better when Kirkwood's open.
That's all. My name's Karen Diggle. Many of the issues that I was concerned about have been touched
on already, so I won't repeat those. But I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the impact on Fourth
Street. So when, if Kirkwood doesn't have parking, those cars try to move elsewhere. Fourth Street,
with a small city lot and
Whole area in front of the restaurants is already a very difficult place to park and we'll be adding
more cars to that Hi, this is this on hello I'm Paul Russo I I welcome the opportunity to open Kirkwood
to more pedestrian access and
I think the language around calling it closing it is biased framing. I like the suggested questions
you have up there. What's the problem to be solved? Underused public space. A street filled with adults
and children is a street that is used more than one that has a few motor vehicles. What would make it
more vibrant? More children.
There's been people tonight who have, well frankly, scared us with predictions of no access for those
who did not walk well. I understand this in one way because I'm over 60. But I wish they had been listening
to the testimony of the gentleman who spoke early on who told us about pedicabs or bicycle taxis. Solutions
are out there. We need to expand non-motorized transit to solve the problem.
Other comment I would make is that, in my opinion, the organic evolution of increased pedestrian access
is actually a myth. Because when one mode of transit has the potential to easily kill or maim others
with other modes of transit, then the dominant mode will continue to dominate. That's what we see all
over the country. I also doubt that the relevance of data of unsuccessful pedestrian malls from the
20th century
And I'd like to remind everybody that we're building a pedestrian mall here, not a bicycle mall. But
I think other people have said that. Final comment would be, the vision I have is that there is a expanded
convention center. And two blocks from the convention center would be the start of this pedestrian mall.
And that would be a gateway to the university. With pedicabs running back and forth, let's think long
term. This is really a huge opportunity.
Thank you for holding this. We're not gonna take any comments, at least not yet, and we're gonna try
to wrap things up, but I will happily receive comments after this or in writing. Yes. Thank you. I'm
concerned that
I guess I'd start and ask the question, what is the desired outcome? What's the end game? What are we
trying to achieve? And if we look at it just, we want either an open or closed road. And that's,
to me, a missed opportunity, especially with the creative people we have at the city and at the university,
and I would even say some county people might be involved with this, certainly all the stakeholders,
but I think we should really unleash
our minds and think about all of the possibilities that we can do there. And it may mean more parking
garage, it may mean more petty cabs, it may mean whatever, but it should not, the beginning and end
shouldn't be is it open or closed. I think there's so much that we can do with that. And people have
said before, it's a gateway to the university and a gateway to downtown. I think it could be
transformational, not just for Bloomington, but we could be really a model for other communities to follow.
I'd like to give permission to think big, not big dollar-wise, but think very open-minded about all
the possibilities, not just open or closed. Thank you. Any final comments? OK. No, he said good night.
OK. And that's it.
Thank you, again, all for coming. We have taken lots of notes. I have a process, listen, discern, and
then decide. So you will be hearing from me and really appreciate your participation tonight. If you
have things you forgot to say, send an email, and I'm reading all of them.
So appreciate your presence tonight. This is a community treasure. And I will just echo Jeff's sentiment.
We limit our creativity when we say yes or no. And so we can live in the freedom of and. And I hope
you all have a great night. Thanks for being with us.