WEBVTT 00:00:00.098 --> 00:00:06.335 - Welcome to the City of Bloomington Redevelopment Commission meeting for Monday, November 2nd, 2026. 00:00:06.335 --> 00:00:12.760 - We will start the meeting with a roll call. I just wanted to check, is Lori online? Okay, that's fine. 00:00:12.760 --> 00:00:19.247 - Just wanted to know what we got. Okay, roll call, please. C. Scamblari? Here. Brandi Cassidy here. John 00:00:19.247 --> 00:00:25.484 - West here. Deborah Meyerson here. And staff present, please. Hannah Tilly-Hudson. Christina Finley, 00:00:25.484 --> 00:00:28.478 - Hand Department. Amy Calzwell, Hand Department. 00:00:28.962 --> 00:00:37.344 - Jeff McKim, City Control. Jane Cooper-Smith, Economic and Sustainable Development. Michael Bitsky, City 00:00:37.344 --> 00:00:45.806 - Engineering. Hannah Dragovich, ESD. Okay. Dana Kerr, Legal. Thank you. And we will start with Director's 00:00:45.806 --> 00:00:54.026 - Reports, please. Do we have a report from hand? No Director's Report from me. However, we do have Mr. 00:00:54.026 --> 00:00:58.942 - John Zote here to give his annual report from CDFI Friendly. 00:00:59.490 --> 00:01:12.720 - Welcome. Thank you. Now you got a busy agenda tonight, so I'll be. As fast as I can here. I hope that 00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:26.079 - I can. So right as I see my email there. So I have. As Anna mentioned, I'm John Zoe from CDFI Friendly 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:28.414 - Bloomington. And. 00:01:28.866 --> 00:01:36.355 - wanted to give our annual report to the RDC as we do every year. I'll go through quickly some of what 00:01:36.355 --> 00:01:44.137 - a CDFI is just for those watching at home and anybody that may be new to learning about our organization. 00:01:44.137 --> 00:01:52.286 - But we are a community development nonprofit organization that is a CDFI is the acronym for that and CDFIs are 00:01:52.450 --> 00:01:59.720 - mission-based lenders on a mission for responsible, affordable lending for community development projects. 00:01:59.720 --> 00:02:07.058 - So we help people in populations and communities that are generally economically distressed, disadvantaged, 00:02:07.058 --> 00:02:13.852 - underbanked, meaning they're not able to obtain traditional financing from banks. And we exist as a 00:02:13.852 --> 00:02:21.598 - $500 billion sector of, $500 billion sector of lending across the United States that sort of sit alongside banks. 00:02:21.794 --> 00:02:28.632 - for when they are unable to help folks. So we cover a... My slides aren't advanced, so you're everyone, 00:02:28.632 --> 00:02:35.668 - I'm sorry. There we go. So we cover a 13-county region here in the Indiana Uplands. Eleven of our counties 00:02:35.668 --> 00:02:42.374 - are the Uplands counties, if you know of regional opportunity initiatives that covers the Uplands for 00:02:42.374 --> 00:02:49.278 - regional economic development. We are a partner of theirs, and we also have Morgan and Jackson counties. 00:02:49.890 --> 00:02:55.772 - We help provide access to loans for folks that may not be able to get them in banks, like I mentioned, 00:02:55.772 --> 00:03:01.825 - and also provide free technical assistance to projects and those folks who might be looking for financing 00:03:01.825 --> 00:03:07.763 - for their small business. And I want to take a minute to recognize Emma Yoder, our program coordinator, 00:03:07.763 --> 00:03:12.446 - who has taken on a lot of small business activity this year for the organization. 00:03:19.138 --> 00:03:25.397 - So what is a CDFI friendly Bloomington? So that's that's told you a little bit about what a CDFI is. 00:03:25.397 --> 00:03:31.719 - But our job as a CDFI friendly, the friendly comes in because we are designed to be a connector. Most 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:37.916 - CDFIs are direct lenders. They're called loan funds. So we are one of 1300 CDFIs that are certified 00:03:37.916 --> 00:03:44.114 - by the US Treasury, which spoke about that a little bit last year. But that's a vetting process you 00:03:44.114 --> 00:03:48.638 - go through to make sure that you are sort of doing the right things as a 00:03:49.058 --> 00:03:55.500 - loan fund financial institution. We are not regulated like banks are because we don't hold people's 00:03:55.500 --> 00:04:02.071 - money. We're not depository institutions, but we do go through the process of being certified to gain 00:04:02.071 --> 00:04:08.062 - access to US Treasury programs. If you've heard of programs like the New Markets Tax Credit, 00:04:08.642 --> 00:04:15.425 - the technical assistance grant program, financial assistance, which is loan capital that can be delivered 00:04:15.425 --> 00:04:22.464 - to communities through the U.S. Treasury's CDFI fund. And those are generally only available at organizations 00:04:22.464 --> 00:04:28.863 - if you have that certification. So in addition to providing that technical assistance and access to 00:04:28.863 --> 00:04:35.262 - loans for those that might need them, we also were awarded a second $500,000 EPA brownfields grant. 00:04:35.262 --> 00:04:36.926 - So when you're looking at 00:04:37.058 --> 00:04:43.348 - community development across the board, thinking about a housing project, thinking about someone wanting 00:04:43.348 --> 00:04:49.339 - to acquire a piece of property, a small business or a facility for childcare, we cannot come in and 00:04:49.339 --> 00:04:55.329 - pay for those initial environmental assessments, something this body knows well, phase one, a phase 00:04:55.329 --> 00:05:01.500 - two assessment to understand what's under the surface so that you're getting a better idea of what you 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:05.214 - might be acquiring, especially when there's housing or where, 00:05:05.538 --> 00:05:11.962 - kids might be present. So we were glad to get a $500,000 grant three years ago that is spent down, and 00:05:11.962 --> 00:05:18.323 - we were just awarded another one. So we have a fresh $500,000 we are able to spread across the region 00:05:18.323 --> 00:05:24.622 - to get assessments done. So as far as what the eligibility and uses for CDFI loans are, we're really 00:05:24.622 --> 00:05:30.984 - talking, our organization focuses in three main areas, small business, housing, and nonprofits, which 00:05:30.984 --> 00:05:33.790 - kind of includes childcare most of the time. 00:05:33.890 --> 00:05:39.068 - Small business and business lending is something banks do quite a bit of, and we work with banks, they 00:05:39.068 --> 00:05:44.145 - work with us, but they can't help everybody, especially if it's a startup, because there's a lack of 00:05:44.145 --> 00:05:49.323 - sort of financial history, tax returns. So with startups, they may be looking for financing, a smaller 00:05:49.323 --> 00:05:54.400 - amount of financing, and that's where the CDFI community can come in. As long as they're registered, 00:05:54.400 --> 00:05:59.478 - a business entity with a state, they've been in business. Sometimes for one day, they can get access 00:05:59.478 --> 00:06:01.790 - to certain levels of CDFI financing, housing, 00:06:02.050 --> 00:06:08.432 - We are part of the capital stack for a project. So the sort of pool of financing that it takes to get 00:06:08.432 --> 00:06:14.690 - a project across the finish line, that may be a grant. We've worked with the city a number of times 00:06:14.690 --> 00:06:20.947 - on housing projects for affordable housing, so that income-restricted housing. We have come in with 00:06:20.947 --> 00:06:27.204 - a loan with a partnering CDFI, and the city has come in with a grant. So we can help with that cash 00:06:27.204 --> 00:06:30.270 - flow and the debt service coverage on a project. 00:06:30.466 --> 00:06:37.766 - And we can also bring in other CDFI partners to come and help with pre-development expenses or acquisition 00:06:37.766 --> 00:06:45.271 - of property and things like that. With nonprofits, there are specific CDFIs out there that help organizations 00:06:45.271 --> 00:06:48.478 - with their structure and their basic operating 00:06:48.834 --> 00:06:54.610 - that status, I guess, if you will. They can come in and do facility assessments. If it's a nonprofit 00:06:54.610 --> 00:07:00.672 - child care, they can help assess whether a child care might, what a child care might need for a building. 00:07:00.672 --> 00:07:06.391 - And so they're gonna come in and help and offer bridge lending. A lot of times if there's a capital 00:07:06.391 --> 00:07:12.567 - campaign going on, a CDFI partner can come in and do a bridge loan as the nonprofit is working to fundraise 00:07:12.567 --> 00:07:15.198 - for their project. So a lot of different ways 00:07:15.362 --> 00:07:20.914 - CDFI lending, mission-based lending here in the region can help make a difference. So in terms of what 00:07:20.914 --> 00:07:26.465 - our technical assistance looks like, that is, again, free. I want to make sure people know that that's 00:07:26.465 --> 00:07:31.532 - free. But we will work one-on-one with project leads, whatever it is, a small business owner, 00:07:31.532 --> 00:07:37.030 - an entrepreneur, a housing project, a child care. They'll come in the door and we will help them walk 00:07:37.030 --> 00:07:42.581 - through their project and think about what steps they might want to take next. And many times that may 00:07:42.581 --> 00:07:44.414 - be connecting them with a lender. 00:07:44.706 --> 00:07:49.552 - a CDFI partner, but the first question we'll ask them, do you have a relationship with a bank? 00:07:49.552 --> 00:07:54.806 - If you do, have you spoken to them? Are they able to help you? If not, okay, let's talk a little more. 00:07:54.806 --> 00:08:00.110 - We met with someone today, for instance, who was not able to get help from a bank, and so we're looking 00:08:00.110 --> 00:08:05.262 - around now. Our next action step from that meeting, that technical assistance meeting we had, was to 00:08:05.262 --> 00:08:09.598 - reach out to a lender we know that specifically works in the project area where that 00:08:09.762 --> 00:08:16.000 - Person is interested and we're going to reach out and try to get them connected to understand better 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:22.485 - what their project might need next that is a project that could be Operating in multi and in about three 00:08:22.485 --> 00:08:27.550 - counties in our region. So it has reached outside the city of Bloomington as well 00:08:28.226 --> 00:08:34.603 - And then we follow up. We have a customer pipeline that we develop and work with our clients and hopefully 00:08:34.603 --> 00:08:41.159 - if they've been referred from a bank then we can create that customer pipeline for the financial institutions 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:47.357 - in our region. So right now we have about 25 projects in our pipeline. We track that monthly along with 00:08:47.357 --> 00:08:52.542 - our impact. So as far as our impact goes, the 25 projects in our pipeline are a subset 00:08:52.642 --> 00:08:58.987 - This year, we've worked on 11 housing projects, 24 small businesses, and 21 nonprofits in child care. 00:08:58.987 --> 00:09:05.331 - And that could be everything from them getting connected to a loan, a financing product, to us having 00:09:05.331 --> 00:09:11.614 - ongoing technical assistance with them. Housing projects, as this group knows, can take a while, and 00:09:11.614 --> 00:09:16.030 - so those are an immediate turnaround. And so we are glad, though, that 00:09:16.194 --> 00:09:21.610 - we can see some of those projects moving through our pipeline and that we kind of leaned into small 00:09:21.610 --> 00:09:27.297 - business this year. We have not been doing a ton of small business work and this year kind of said we're 00:09:27.297 --> 00:09:32.822 - going to really take small business in and figure out how we can sort of increase our flow there. And 00:09:32.822 --> 00:09:38.400 - Emma has been a big part of that and working with a lot of clients to understand what financing is for 00:09:38.400 --> 00:09:40.350 - the different stages of businesses. 00:09:41.826 --> 00:09:48.385 - So overall, we've had about $29 million of additional CDFI investment in our region over the life of 00:09:48.385 --> 00:09:55.139 - our organization and Jane Cooper-Smith's in here, our former executive director. It's about 425 housing 00:09:55.139 --> 00:09:59.166 - units that have been created or preserved. And that's not us. 00:09:59.426 --> 00:10:05.997 - building and lending on every one, but that's technical assistance, that's partnering lending, that 00:10:05.997 --> 00:10:13.029 - is impacting the conversation and connecting those projects that may not have been able to get traditional 00:10:13.029 --> 00:10:19.600 - financing with the CDFI to get those units online here in the region. And overall, that's about $74 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:25.054 - million in projects over the last five to six years. So when you take a look back, 00:10:25.218 --> 00:10:31.353 - take a kind of a bird's eye view of this across the country. I talked about this last year, but it's 00:10:31.353 --> 00:10:37.610 - important to point out why CDFIs are important. The lending industry, the traditional lending industry 00:10:37.610 --> 00:10:43.806 - with banks is pretty robust. We want to avoid predatory lending. So this community development sector 00:10:43.806 --> 00:10:50.002 - of lending is really important to sit alongside traditional lending in regions across the country and 00:10:50.002 --> 00:10:53.950 - in Indiana. We are underserved by community development lending. 00:10:54.082 --> 00:11:01.971 - In the last 20 years or so, if you spread CDFI lending across each resident of the United States, you'd 00:11:01.971 --> 00:11:09.708 - get about $825 a person. In Indiana during that time, we are at—well, right now we are at $57. When 00:11:09.708 --> 00:11:16.990 - our organization started, that was $22. So you see the per capita amount increasing slowly, but 00:11:17.250 --> 00:11:23.813 - In other parts of the country, you see a much larger number in how that lending is spread out. We are 00:11:23.813 --> 00:11:30.377 - what's called an opportunity market for community development lending, where there's really only been 00:11:30.377 --> 00:11:37.004 - kind of one lending industry available in addition to that predatory lending. So we want to try to get 00:11:37.004 --> 00:11:43.568 - in there and fill gaps across the region where we can. So just over the last year, in addition to our 00:11:43.568 --> 00:11:46.206 - 300 hours of technical assistance, we've 00:11:46.466 --> 00:11:52.041 - These are just pictures of different events we've been to. We've made a couple trips to DC for some 00:11:52.041 --> 00:11:57.616 - important conversations with our federal representatives, talking about those federal programs that 00:11:57.616 --> 00:12:03.358 - I mentioned earlier. We've presented at a number of conferences and just really tried to get out there 00:12:03.358 --> 00:12:05.086 - and make sure people know that 00:12:05.442 --> 00:12:11.047 - the community development lending industry is there for them when they're not able to access other financing 00:12:11.047 --> 00:12:16.394 - and that's really important and you do that by word of mouth. We've been to about 100 events this year, 00:12:16.394 --> 00:12:21.536 - had a lot of conversations and just trying to make sure people know that word of mouth is there and 00:12:21.536 --> 00:12:26.729 - they can contact us if they need it. Our latest visual example of the project we've worked on is the 00:12:26.729 --> 00:12:32.386 - Chandler Early Learning Center up at the Bloomington Housing Authority with Summit Hill Community Development 00:12:32.386 --> 00:12:33.054 - Corporation. 00:12:33.186 --> 00:12:39.003 - We were one of many partners on this, IHCDA, the City of Bloomington, the Community Foundation, lots 00:12:39.003 --> 00:12:44.934 - of folks over the last five years helped get this project done. And this is a childcare center serving 00:12:44.934 --> 00:12:50.924 - 29 kids, ages zero to three, and there are three units of affordable housing on the second floor. We're 00:12:50.924 --> 00:12:57.086 - really proud to be a partner on that to help finish out construction with IHCDA as the other lender there. 00:12:57.250 --> 00:13:03.532 - And then just an example of a small business, Andrew Statiker has a business on the east side called 00:13:03.532 --> 00:13:10.125 - a clientele, or Supreme Clientele, Minspa. We were able to help him with a loan with Allies for Community 00:13:10.125 --> 00:13:16.345 - Business. Allies is a CDFI out of Chicago that we work a lot with. They're a micro lender. So their 00:13:16.345 --> 00:13:22.627 - average loan size is about $15,000. And we have given them, or loaned them, I should say, capital to 00:13:22.627 --> 00:13:26.110 - get lending, to do those small loans out in our region. 00:13:26.210 --> 00:13:31.984 - And then they'll, of course, return that capital back to us after a certain period of time. But they've 00:13:31.984 --> 00:13:37.758 - got the infrastructure to do those small micro loans and have been able to help a lot of entrepreneurs. 00:13:37.758 --> 00:13:43.365 - And so we are working with them on a sort of capital partnership to get more small business amped up 00:13:43.365 --> 00:13:48.972 - in the region. So that's it. I'll be happy to take questions. I really appreciate the opportunity to 00:13:48.972 --> 00:13:54.302 - present annually. And I really appreciate the RDC's support over the years of our organization. 00:13:54.402 --> 00:14:01.303 - make good on that support and get capital dollars out the door, make sure we are focusing hard 00:14:01.303 --> 00:14:08.785 - on project-based work and providing that technical assistance so that we can get more things done here 00:14:08.785 --> 00:14:16.050 - in the region as a community partner. So any questions? Yeah. Thank you for the presentation. Thank 00:14:16.050 --> 00:14:22.878 - you for all you've included here about impact of CDFI-friendly Bloomington. I'm curious about 00:14:23.714 --> 00:14:29.480 - not just how you measure impact, but how you measure success. Do we benchmark ourselves against other 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:35.528 - CDFI friendlies? How does that work? That's a good question. There aren't that many other CDFI friendlies. 00:14:35.528 --> 00:14:41.350 - There are four of us across the country. Two of the others are in Indiana, South Bend, and Evansville. 00:14:41.350 --> 00:14:47.003 - So there isn't a benchmark, so to speak, to measure ourselves against. I just asked last week about 00:14:47.003 --> 00:14:49.886 - that technical assistance. That is something every 00:14:50.050 --> 00:14:55.957 - CDFI has to do if you're certified technical assistance slash development services is one of those things 00:14:55.957 --> 00:15:01.641 - you have to provide and so I said for a two-person shop kind of what's our benchmark what should that 00:15:01.641 --> 00:15:07.325 - be for technical assistance and the experts in the field are the folks that helped us get started and 00:15:07.325 --> 00:15:13.009 - seem to be and they're they're consultants in the industry said you know we're doing pretty well with 00:15:13.009 --> 00:15:18.748 - our technical assistance hours but we need to make sure we're outpacing last year which so far we will 00:15:18.748 --> 00:15:20.030 - we outpace 2024 and so 00:15:20.162 --> 00:15:26.554 - We have a sheet, an impact sheet that we update monthly for our board that says how many technical assistance 00:15:26.554 --> 00:15:32.422 - hours, how many training hours, how many folks have we helped, just to sort of measure what that is, 00:15:32.422 --> 00:15:38.291 - because we're kind of breaking new ground here as an organization, because it's an unusual setup for 00:15:38.291 --> 00:15:44.218 - CDFI. Most are just loan funds, and I shouldn't say just, but most of their activity are those loans, 00:15:44.218 --> 00:15:49.854 - and they have a lot of loan volume. Our genesis was not loan volume as much as it was to connect 00:15:50.178 --> 00:15:56.976 - projects with other lenders around the country, and to kind of be a hub, and to be the boots on the 00:15:56.976 --> 00:16:03.842 - ground. So we're kind of blazing a trail here, but it's still important to measure that success, and 00:16:03.842 --> 00:16:10.776 - we're able to kind of chart what that is. Thank you. Commissioner West. First of all, that event last 00:16:10.776 --> 00:16:17.643 - week was great. Oh, thanks. It was well done, and I learned quite a bit from being there. How do you 00:16:17.643 --> 00:16:19.614 - fund yourself operationally? 00:16:20.066 --> 00:16:27.020 - a couple of different ways. We have a loan portfolio that comes in. We get payments. We have some interest 00:16:27.020 --> 00:16:33.519 - there. That is a piece of our operations. The Urban Enterprise Association has given us operational 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:40.148 - dollars and we have another grant from the city. We also get grants from from banking partners. So we 00:16:40.148 --> 00:16:46.646 - are able to access those federal programs. So we just got done with a $300,000 technical assistance 00:16:46.646 --> 00:16:49.246 - grant whose purpose is to provide those 00:16:49.442 --> 00:16:56.264 - services on the ground. So we just spent that down last month, actually, and that was a that was a two 00:16:56.264 --> 00:17:02.887 - to three year grant. So a lot of different sources, but it's getting more competitive. And so we're 00:17:02.887 --> 00:17:09.642 - always looking for ways to make sure that we can be more self sufficient. One of those is to grow our 00:17:09.642 --> 00:17:15.934 - loan portfolio and have proceeds and interest coming in. So working on that. Thanks. Yes, sir. 00:17:17.474 --> 00:17:23.400 - of your project pipeline, how many of them are in our municipal area? That is a great question. I can 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:29.559 - get that to you, Commissioner. I will say that our technical assistance, we do about 60% of our technical 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:35.369 - assistance inside Bloomington. So the pipeline is strong. I would say this year, it's been a lot of 00:17:35.369 --> 00:17:41.237 - activity is in Bloomington. The majority of those housing projects, the 11 that we've worked on have 00:17:41.237 --> 00:17:47.454 - been in Bloomington, most of the small businesses. So it's at least a majority. Majority, of course. Yeah. 00:17:47.650 --> 00:17:53.325 - look at where you're, if you can explain a little bit how you're working with Ally out of Chicago as 00:17:53.325 --> 00:17:59.000 - them taking care of things easily. What is the amount of micro loans they will loan up to, you know, 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:04.676 - we're comfortable from a financial standpoint with CDFI to help build our small businesses? Yeah, so 00:18:04.676 --> 00:18:10.520 - we loaned them a fairly modest amount of capital just to get the partnership going and to keep, because 00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:16.251 - we don't have a ton ourselves as far as capital goes. They will loan as little as $500 all the way up 00:18:16.251 --> 00:18:17.150 - to $100,000 for 00:18:17.250 --> 00:18:24.123 - entrepreneurs who have been in business for two years or less. Once you get above that, they have a 00:18:24.123 --> 00:18:31.271 - revenue-based financing model where they can do $250,000 if your numbers will show that you can support 00:18:31.271 --> 00:18:38.488 - that sort of debt. Their average loan is about $15,000. And so for us, we've been able to close a couple 00:18:38.488 --> 00:18:40.894 - of loans this year that are in the 00:18:40.994 --> 00:18:46.924 - $2500 range that is sort of a starter amount that they'll do if you haven't been in business very long 00:18:46.924 --> 00:18:53.084 - you need to kind of get going we worked with somebody that was wanting to start a web to get their website 00:18:53.084 --> 00:18:59.187 - going and just some basic business expenses here and there if they just had no cash and so you can pretty 00:18:59.187 --> 00:19:01.950 - easily with you know through an application get 00:19:02.306 --> 00:19:06.890 - get that $2,500 from allies, and then that's called a credit builder, so you can then build up. If you 00:19:06.890 --> 00:19:11.475 - do well with that, then you can get more money. So the idea is to increase the amount that you're able 00:19:11.475 --> 00:19:15.926 - to borrow. And as it builds up, if they've been in business and they can support it, it could go up 00:19:15.926 --> 00:19:20.376 - to $250,000. That's correct. And when we look at it, is this comparable bank interest rates, or are 00:19:20.376 --> 00:19:24.516 - these a little bit sub-interest rate in order to try to build up our entrepreneurial and our 00:19:24.516 --> 00:19:29.278 - small businesses? On the small business side, they're actually going to be a little bit higher than banks, 00:19:29.442 --> 00:19:36.219 - A CDFI borrower traditionally has a profile where they may not be in a secure financial position as 00:19:36.219 --> 00:19:42.997 - someone who can get a bank loan, right? So their credit score may be a factor. A lack of collateral 00:19:42.997 --> 00:19:49.910 - may be a factor. Being in business for a very little period of time, a bank won't usually do that. So 00:19:49.910 --> 00:19:53.502 - a CDFI will have a couple of basis points, you know, 00:19:54.146 --> 00:19:59.281 - allies rates run between nine and twelve percent I think so that's above market but not too far and 00:19:59.281 --> 00:20:04.519 - it definitely not predatory we want to be very clear that the predatory loan industry is you're gonna 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:10.065 - get into the 20s and 30s with a lot of fees so we want to. Approximately nine to twelve with no prepayments 00:20:10.065 --> 00:20:15.611 - and such so. That's right. You know as we start out our small businesses you know even the largest business 00:20:15.611 --> 00:20:20.952 - small that start does a small one so. Yeah. Those capital. So so the product is designed to be flexible 00:20:20.952 --> 00:20:23.006 - you may pay a higher interest rate but. 00:20:23.170 --> 00:20:29.539 - the flexibility is there. So if something isn't going well, they'll want to renegotiate the terms and 00:20:29.539 --> 00:20:36.033 - try to not. So if anyone's out here listening and such identifies that, how do they actually go through 00:20:36.033 --> 00:20:42.465 - an application by contacting you? Yeah, go to our website and contact myself, John Zote or Emma Yoder. 00:20:42.465 --> 00:20:45.150 - We'll see what they have, what's in there. 00:20:45.666 --> 00:20:51.205 - idea pipeline, if you will, and then see if they should be connected with a lender, or if we want to 00:20:51.205 --> 00:20:56.799 - work with them a little bit. Or we may refer them to the SBDC, the Small Business Development Center, 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:02.502 - if they don't have a business plan that's finished, or they have some legal stuff they need worked out. 00:21:02.502 --> 00:21:08.041 - We don't provide legal advice. That's SBDC and others. So they'll come back to us when they might be 00:21:08.041 --> 00:21:13.690 - ready to talk about financing. If they need that, what kind of time frame does this entail? It varies. 00:21:13.690 --> 00:21:15.390 - So with a small business loan, 00:21:15.586 --> 00:21:22.578 - of the sort of under $10,000 you can usually we're talking a week or two if everything goes well. Housing 00:21:22.578 --> 00:21:29.306 - projects will take a while to underwrite. Usually that's a 90 day to 120 day start to finish. But for 00:21:29.306 --> 00:21:35.968 - small business, we're talking weeks. Small business. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. 00:21:35.968 --> 00:21:43.422 - Do you foresee any potential for where RDC business might intersect with what CDFI friendly Bloomington could do 00:21:43.778 --> 00:21:50.141 - I'm thinking, for example, Hobo South, as those units move towards development, but there may be others 00:21:50.141 --> 00:21:56.749 - as well. I'm just curious if you have insights or thoughts that might be helpful just to pique our interest 00:21:56.749 --> 00:22:03.051 - for the future. Yeah, I do. I think, you know, certainly rely on you all and staff at the city to sort 00:22:03.051 --> 00:22:08.190 - of guide how that's all developed, but certainly CDFI's could be a lending partner. 00:22:08.354 --> 00:22:14.281 - there. I think one thing we've talked about some is that in the CDFI community, there aren't a lot of 00:22:14.281 --> 00:22:20.208 - mortgage products, right? So we're talking about how to increase homeownership here in Bloomington or 00:22:20.208 --> 00:22:26.368 - anywhere else in the region. There aren't a lot of CDFIs that do mortgages, but banks, banks do mortgages 00:22:26.368 --> 00:22:29.854 - that can be designed for those who might need an affordable 00:22:29.954 --> 00:22:35.757 - product right so banks kind of have this community development lending responsibility a lot of mortgages 00:22:35.757 --> 00:22:41.725 - operate in that space and so we've worked with banking partners to try to collect some mortgage information 00:22:41.725 --> 00:22:47.473 - that may be a way we can help we're here to here to help the city however can get that done we've tried 00:22:47.473 --> 00:22:53.331 - to be supportive during the PUD development and consideration process just to keep those options flexible 00:22:53.331 --> 00:22:55.486 - for how we can develop housing because 00:22:55.778 --> 00:23:04.352 - I don't have to tell anybody in this room. It takes a while. I need a lot of tools on the table to get 00:23:04.352 --> 00:23:12.926 - it done. So I'm glad to be a partner. Anything else? OK. Thank you so much for the presentation. Thank 00:23:12.926 --> 00:23:21.500 - you all. Thank you, John. So next on our agenda, we have another. Well, we have legal report. Is that? 00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:24.414 - My discussion will come later. OK. 00:23:24.642 --> 00:23:33.362 - So we will come back to that. We have a treasurer's report. Yeah, so this is the first of two items 00:23:33.362 --> 00:23:42.430 - today in which my role is primarily to introduce Justin Chang from Leedy. This is also the first of two 00:23:42.786 --> 00:23:50.475 - statutorily required presentations that are being provided. This one in particular is the, under the 00:23:50.475 --> 00:23:58.164 - Treasurer's Report, is the annual TIF impact presentation. And this is statutorily not only targeted 00:23:58.164 --> 00:24:04.254 - at you, the Redevelopment Commission, but to the governance bodies of the other 00:24:04.578 --> 00:24:13.590 - taxing units that overlap the TIF. And so they are invited and encouraged to attend. And actually, 00:24:13.590 --> 00:24:22.784 - I see Dr. Winston from MCCSE on Zoom. So I only have them in PDF form. So it's not quite as slick as 00:24:22.784 --> 00:24:32.798 - Justin's original slide presentation. But it's fine. I'll go ahead and control that and take it away, Justin. 00:24:32.898 --> 00:24:38.958 - Perfect. Justin Chang with 3D Financial Group. It's great to see everyone again. I believe I did this 00:24:38.958 --> 00:24:45.315 - presentation for everyone last year as well. But just as a quick recap, like Jeff mentioned, the reporting 00:24:45.315 --> 00:24:51.375 - really is meant for the public. So some of this information you may already know, but for the sake of 00:24:51.375 --> 00:24:57.554 - the reporting, I have to include them. I'll try to make this meeting as useful to you as possible while 00:24:57.554 --> 00:25:01.950 - also meeting the statutory requirements. So the second slide here is just 00:25:02.146 --> 00:25:08.675 - a checklist of all the requirements that we did this year, just as a reminder, there are six total, 00:25:08.675 --> 00:25:15.399 - and there's only two left. You'll see at the bottom, it's the prior to December 1st TIF spending plan, 00:25:15.399 --> 00:25:21.732 - which we will do after this, and we are currently doing the December 31st end-of-year TIF impact 00:25:21.732 --> 00:25:28.456 - presentation. So one of the information that we're required to provide is basic information on the TIF 00:25:28.456 --> 00:25:29.566 - allocation area. 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:35.901 - Bloomington RDC has two main TIF allocation areas. First is the Bloomington Consolidated Allocation 00:25:35.901 --> 00:25:42.031 - Area, which consists of, I believe, 26 different TIFs. And then North Kinser Pike. Keep in mind, this 00:25:42.031 --> 00:25:48.042 - does not include any of the new ones that we created this year, so Shasta Metal is not on here this 00:25:48.042 --> 00:25:54.112 - year. Neither is Hopewell, but they will be in 2027 when we do this. For the expiration years, 2029, 00:25:54.112 --> 00:25:59.582 - that is the earliest expiration that we know within Consolidated Allocation Area, but that 00:25:59.714 --> 00:26:06.608 - we do have most of the areas in that Bloomington consolidated does go out to 20 40 North Kinser Pike. 00:26:06.608 --> 00:26:13.503 - Unfortunately, it's gone after this year and we will not be collecting increment on that tip starting 00:26:13.503 --> 00:26:20.397 - in 27 incremental AV. We saw about 1.29 this year. We are looking at closer to 1.3 to 1.4. As you may 00:26:20.397 --> 00:26:25.534 - know, we just completed the residential removal, so that's going to change. 00:26:25.858 --> 00:26:33.228 - what we're seeing a little bit for page 27, we will let you all know once we have those final numbers, 00:26:33.228 --> 00:26:40.527 - which we just received the parcels for last Friday. Are you indicating up or down? Up. Thank you. But 00:26:40.527 --> 00:26:47.683 - don't quote me, but up. No quote, just trying to get a gauge. But probably up, most likely up, yes. 00:26:47.683 --> 00:26:53.694 - Next tab, this is the financial positions tab. So if we just look big picture wise, 00:26:54.082 --> 00:27:02.340 - for the Bloomington consolidated allocation area, we're projecting about $24 million in revenues and 00:27:02.340 --> 00:27:10.599 - 22.2 in expenditures. So we're projecting about $1.6 million increase in cash balance. Keep in mind, 00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:18.857 - these are projections. So current year expenses here today might not reflect this number, and a good 00:27:18.857 --> 00:27:21.310 - example is North Kinser Pike. 00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:28.280 - I believe there hasn't been any expenditures out of that TIF allocation area. We just have that in there 00:27:28.280 --> 00:27:34.954 - because we were projecting a cash spend down due to that TIF expiring. Can you remind me what happens 00:27:34.954 --> 00:27:41.758 - with any end of year balance that's not spent down from the expiring North Kinser Pike allocation area? 00:27:41.758 --> 00:27:48.694 - So nothing really happens. And one of the reasons is that we don't actually know yet because North Kinser 00:27:48.694 --> 00:27:50.526 - Pike is probably one of the 00:27:50.658 --> 00:27:57.001 - earliest to expire in the state. So we don't have a lot of precedence for that yet. As of now, we've 00:27:57.001 --> 00:28:03.408 - not seen anything from the DLGF or SBOA telling us, hey, let your clients know to spend these dollars 00:28:03.408 --> 00:28:09.814 - now. We haven't seen anything like that yet. But we do encourage it to not hold dollars for too long. 00:28:09.814 --> 00:28:16.283 - We need to make sure we have a project in place prior to the expiration of the TIF in order to utilize 00:28:16.283 --> 00:28:19.486 - it without having to be a test case for the state. 00:28:20.418 --> 00:28:27.030 - probably a better question for legal, but we don't see anything that says we need projects in place 00:28:27.030 --> 00:28:33.642 - before TIFA expiration. We do have... It's nice to just cease bringing in funds, but there may be a 00:28:33.642 --> 00:28:40.585 - way to use the funds after the actual expiration. I'm just understanding expiration means that the funds 00:28:40.585 --> 00:28:44.222 - are no longer coming in. Correct. Well, nothing has to 00:28:44.418 --> 00:28:50.350 - indicated that we need to spend the funds by December 31st, 2026. We just won't be receiving any more 00:28:50.350 --> 00:28:56.224 - TIF revenues. But the ideal situation would at least have a project identified prior to it. We would 00:28:56.224 --> 00:29:02.040 - highly encourage that, yeah. We would encourage that. Occurring long-term future plans for the REC, 00:29:02.040 --> 00:29:07.390 - just some of the projects that we have going on is the Hopewell TIF, which we just created. 00:29:07.490 --> 00:29:14.955 - The summer project, we created a Shasta Meadows. I know there's future plans for that as well. And we 00:29:14.955 --> 00:29:22.785 - had the potential hotel project and I know a few public safety projects as well that are under discussion. 00:29:22.785 --> 00:29:30.104 - So these are just future plans that the RDC has. Nothing set in stone yet. This tab sort of sets up 00:29:30.104 --> 00:29:33.470 - the actual impact analysis that is coming up. 00:29:33.570 --> 00:29:39.811 - Many of you have already been on the RDC for a while, so I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time 00:29:39.811 --> 00:29:46.177 - on this. Essentially, this is just illustrating how a TIFF works, which is you have the base assessed 00:29:46.177 --> 00:29:52.792 - values, which is the AVs of the parcels prior to creating a TIFF. Once you create a TIFF, any incremental 00:29:52.792 --> 00:29:59.095 - AV goes towards the RDC, goes towards the TIFF allocation areas. And once that TIFF expires in 2025, 00:29:59.095 --> 00:30:00.094 - all that growth 00:30:00.258 --> 00:30:07.375 - due to the TIF goes back to the base. And this is, again, this is one of the slides that's more meant 00:30:07.375 --> 00:30:14.492 - for the public, because you all have seen this quite a few times. So another setup slide for the next 00:30:14.492 --> 00:30:21.609 - analysis, which is essentially our impact essentially answers the question, what would happen if this 00:30:21.609 --> 00:30:28.656 - TIF, all the assessed values in the TIF would have happened if we didn't provide all the incentives? 00:30:28.656 --> 00:30:29.982 - So if we think of, 00:30:30.562 --> 00:30:38.378 - Meridian was a good example where we had to provide an economic development agreement. And it's essentially 00:30:38.378 --> 00:30:46.122 - asking if all the assessed value came into the Meridian, from the Meridian TIF came into the base assessed 00:30:46.122 --> 00:30:53.504 - values anyways, what would happen to property tax collection. So this is a very hypothetical scenario 00:30:53.504 --> 00:30:59.294 - that wouldn't actually happen because, again, Meridian TIF, that TIF would not, 00:30:59.458 --> 00:31:06.706 - would not be around if it wasn't because the RDC was able to provide some sort of economic development 00:31:06.706 --> 00:31:13.814 - agreement. But this is just a setup slide to say this is the preface before we go into the analysis. 00:31:13.814 --> 00:31:20.992 - The impact chart, essentially what this does is it takes all that assessed value, that $1.289 billion 00:31:20.992 --> 00:31:27.326 - that we saw on page three, I believe, and we said we threw this entire $1.29 billion into 00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:35.375 - the base assessed values, what would be the impact to all the underlying units? And you'll see, even 00:31:35.375 --> 00:31:43.493 - though Monroe County is listed first, that is because we list that based off the Circle Breaker impact, 00:31:43.493 --> 00:31:51.690 - but you'll see the highest impact is actually to Bloomington City due to that $644,000 rate-driven funds 00:31:51.690 --> 00:31:54.110 - impact. So what this shows is, 00:31:54.594 --> 00:32:02.990 - of a total, if we look at that $48,000 plus $1 million in the middle, right under the blue, 00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:12.389 - of that $1.1 million impact, about $650,000 of that is actually going to the city. So the message that 00:32:12.389 --> 00:32:21.698 - I try to convey is, for the most part, the city is bearing most of the impact anyways for having this 00:32:21.698 --> 00:32:23.614 - tip allocation area. 00:32:23.906 --> 00:32:30.818 - Jeff, can we go to the next page, actually? Just for all of our clarification, what's a rate-driven 00:32:30.818 --> 00:32:38.006 - impact? Rate-driven impact is, so this could take a while. No, it won't. But the way Indiana taxes work 00:32:38.006 --> 00:32:44.987 - is that we're a levy-based state. So essentially what that means is we can't change our property tax 00:32:44.987 --> 00:32:52.382 - rates. So when you throw a bunch of assessed value into the property tax base, it just drops the tax rate. 00:32:52.514 --> 00:32:59.730 - So our levy stays the same. Rate-driven funds acts the opposite way. There's only two rate-driven funds 00:32:59.730 --> 00:33:06.947 - from here. It's Monroe County has a CCD fund, which is a capital development fund, and Bloomington City 00:33:06.947 --> 00:33:14.233 - also has a cumulative capital development fund. Those rates stay the same. So when you throw an assessed 00:33:14.233 --> 00:33:20.894 - value into the base, those rates can actually capture on the entire increase in assessed value. 00:33:21.026 --> 00:33:27.970 - And for Bloomington, which has a very, very low circuit breaker, their rage driven funds impact is actually 00:33:27.970 --> 00:33:34.463 - the highest, which is very rare because most of our clients have higher circuit breaker. Bloomington 00:33:34.463 --> 00:33:40.892 - is fortunate in that instance where circuit breaker is low, tax rates are low. So the entire impact 00:33:40.892 --> 00:33:47.386 - really goes straight to their rage driven funds instead of circuit breaker. This page summarizes all 00:33:47.386 --> 00:33:48.350 - those numbers. 00:33:48.770 --> 00:33:55.347 - from that previous page, essentially what we created is called the TIF margin. So 0.95 TIF margin is 00:33:55.347 --> 00:34:02.054 - probably the highest of all my clients at least. Essentially what that means for every dollar that the 00:34:02.054 --> 00:34:08.631 - TIF brings in, 95 cents of that is because we utilize the TIF allocation area. So if we look at that 00:34:08.631 --> 00:34:15.273 - in green under that, that 23.7, that's the total TIF revenues that the RDC brought in. But under that 00:34:15.273 --> 00:34:18.334 - in yellow, 22.6 is because we utilize the TIF. 00:34:19.266 --> 00:34:27.119 - If we did not utilize the TIF and the AVs still came into all the base units, all the base units added 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:34.896 - together would have only received $1.1 million. So for utilizing the TIF, we generated an extra $22.6 00:34:34.896 --> 00:34:42.749 - million annually for the community. So quick question in regards to that. If that was the case, you're 00:34:42.749 --> 00:34:46.942 - saying that $21 million would reduce taxpayers' bills? 00:34:47.938 --> 00:34:57.100 - 21 million would reduce. 22 million, 661 minus the 1.2. Just curious. For this instance, let me think, 00:34:57.100 --> 00:35:06.884 - if we're looking at. If we didn't have TIF. Portions of it, yes, but not the entire thing. Again, rate-driven 00:35:06.884 --> 00:35:14.622 - funds is a big part of it. Rate-driven expenses. And one way that I think about it is, 00:35:14.946 --> 00:35:22.184 - you saw a large drop, a lot of the units will start to find ways to increase that property tax level 00:35:22.184 --> 00:35:29.351 - too. So if in a vacuum, to answer your question, yes. But it doesn't work that way in reality, yes. 00:35:29.351 --> 00:35:36.517 - OK. Thank you. But that concludes my presentation. Happy to answer any other questions. I feel like 00:35:36.517 --> 00:35:43.683 - this is an extremely important slide because this question comes up all the time. We see what we're 00:35:43.683 --> 00:35:44.830 - losing from it. 00:35:45.090 --> 00:35:50.821 - But what are we actually getting? And the answer is we're losing a million dollars, but we're getting 00:35:50.821 --> 00:35:56.721 - $22.6 million. Correct. And that's every single year that the TIF is active. And that money collectively 00:35:56.721 --> 00:36:02.509 - can do our redevelopment projects. It helps increase the quality of the community, the infrastructure, 00:36:02.509 --> 00:36:07.678 - in order to make the community a better place. That's the basis of it. Is that correct? OK. 00:36:09.730 --> 00:36:16.342 - So if we're looking over a life of 25 years, that's over $400 million. And right now, given the existing 00:36:16.342 --> 00:36:23.144 - TIF we have, excluding the two that we've just done, what's our time frame on our TIFs, on our consolidated 00:36:23.144 --> 00:36:29.504 - TIF? Because consolidated TIF has a bunch in between there. We have some starting to expire in 2029, 00:36:29.504 --> 00:36:35.802 - but we really won't. I would say 80% of it doesn't expire till 2040. So we still have, what's that, 00:36:35.802 --> 00:36:37.502 - 13, 14 years around there? 00:36:37.858 --> 00:36:44.478 - So as we look at projects without redoing a TIF, we need to be cognizant of the fact that we've got 00:36:44.478 --> 00:36:51.165 - a 13-year time frame for our financial. Yes. And your bond modeling takes that into account. Yes. So 00:36:51.165 --> 00:36:57.851 - one of the things that we've actually discussed with Jeff and Anna was we have certain bond projects 00:36:57.851 --> 00:37:04.670 - like the Hopewell Bonds, Summit Bonds, Public Safety. When we started looking at these back in 23, 24, 00:37:05.794 --> 00:37:12.883 - we could bond for a lot more with a lower impact, but because the TIF life is the same, we're essentially 00:37:12.883 --> 00:37:20.039 - thinking about it as if you're taking out a mortgage, $200,000 mortgage over 30 years, the monthly payment 00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:26.860 - is different from $200,000 over 10 years. So as we drag along some of these projects, our flexibility 00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:31.742 - is reduced because our TIF life can't expand over what they already are. 00:37:34.498 --> 00:37:41.708 - There's been talk about the possibility of, let's say, establishing a downtown TIF that I believe would 00:37:41.708 --> 00:37:48.640 - be taking that out of what is currently a consolidated TIF. What does that do for the TIF timeline, 00:37:48.640 --> 00:37:56.058 - if that were to occur? So the new downtown TIF would have its own timeline. It will not affect the current 00:37:56.058 --> 00:38:03.198 - TIF's timeline. Now, if we are taking parcels out of the current TIF into the new TIF allocation area, 00:38:03.650 --> 00:38:10.022 - then that parcel after it's been moved gets 25 years with that new TIF allocation area. But it loses 00:38:10.022 --> 00:38:16.710 - any incremental AV it previously had. So we want to be selective when we do that. We don't want to remove 00:38:16.710 --> 00:38:23.082 - something that's currently making, you know, $200,000 a year because we've just taken that away. Are 00:38:23.082 --> 00:38:29.454 - you able to pick those particular parcels if it's within a geographic area? As long as they meet the 00:38:29.454 --> 00:38:32.798 - continuity test, then yes, we can certainly do that. 00:38:33.378 --> 00:38:41.331 - We have done that in the past. Thank you so much for your presentation. Do we go to the spending plan 00:38:41.331 --> 00:38:49.128 - next? No, it's a little bit later. Okay, because I have one question in regards to that. Thank you. 00:38:49.128 --> 00:38:57.159 - Anything else for me? One quick question in regards to dealing with our trades district and the amount 00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:01.214 - that we received in that has been within the 25-19. 00:39:02.498 --> 00:39:11.114 - Is that whole fund amount still available to be utilized? Well, it's not segregated. I mean, it's just, 00:39:11.114 --> 00:39:19.482 - yeah, it's not segregated, particularly. But I mean, you did receive it. OK. So it's all part of the 00:39:19.482 --> 00:39:27.933 - $33 million that's in the bank, as far as what? Yes. OK. Thank you. OK. Well, next item on our agenda 00:39:27.933 --> 00:39:30.750 - is a business development update. 00:39:30.882 --> 00:39:37.833 - Just a small business development update to let you know the OT 987 sculpture in the Trace District, 00:39:37.833 --> 00:39:44.853 - the lights are back on for those of you who have been curious about that. So it's been quite a bit of 00:39:44.853 --> 00:39:51.873 - investigative work on the part of our arts team, along with some technical support. So that's it. And 00:39:51.873 --> 00:39:57.310 - I second John's, or Commissioner, oh my god. Just John. Okay, I second John's. 00:39:58.242 --> 00:40:05.154 - kudos to the CDFI event at the trades district and then we also had a really wonderful three-day AMP 00:40:05.154 --> 00:40:12.271 - Bloomington event working to connect people doing all things tech and startup bringing kind of students 00:40:12.271 --> 00:40:19.525 - and community together and the creative economy as well so that event roved from the mill to the Buzzkirk 00:40:19.525 --> 00:40:26.437 - Chumley and then on campus so it was really really awesome and I hope some of you were able to see a 00:40:26.437 --> 00:40:27.806 - little bit of that. 00:40:28.034 --> 00:40:35.003 - Great. Thanks. Thank you. And I don't see Hopewell on our agenda, but I saw Mr. Knuckey online. I just 00:40:35.003 --> 00:40:42.107 - want to make sure that I'm not missing anything. No Hopewell updates this evening. He's here for another 00:40:42.107 --> 00:40:48.941 - agenda. OK. Thank you. Can we ask a question about Hopewell? Sure. OK. How long in the time frame to 00:40:48.941 --> 00:40:51.038 - try to get that moved forward? 00:40:52.066 --> 00:41:00.059 - and CCRs? Well, we did give a community update last week for the Hopewell project. Hopewell South was 00:41:00.059 --> 00:41:07.973 - really in the spotlight. We continue to work with civil engineering and so we've made a submittal to 00:41:07.973 --> 00:41:16.122 - CBU and planning to make sure. We're trying to work towards our secondary plan. And so we're continuing 00:41:16.122 --> 00:41:18.238 - to work on that right now. 00:41:18.690 --> 00:41:25.099 - There are a lot of millions of details that have to get worked out. So we're moving as quickly as we 00:41:25.099 --> 00:41:31.445 - possibly can. Do we think sometime an application before the end of the year will be first in line? 00:41:31.445 --> 00:41:37.854 - We are trying to make an application before the end of the year, yes. Absolutely. So right now we're 00:41:37.854 --> 00:41:44.453 - doing a lot of pre-review to make sure that we don't have a lengthy process when it comes to the actual 00:41:44.453 --> 00:41:45.278 - application. 00:41:46.562 --> 00:41:53.655 - go secondary plat and then we'll be able to start correct. So right now we're working on getting covenants 00:41:53.655 --> 00:42:00.416 - and restrictions put together before that plot is recorded. So a lot of little legal things that need 00:42:00.416 --> 00:42:07.111 - to be done. And in fact, we have an update as far as that's concerned, that we'll talk about in just 00:42:07.111 --> 00:42:14.071 - a bit. So unless you would you like to talk about it now? The outside council? Oh, yeah, I guess I could 00:42:14.071 --> 00:42:16.126 - have mentioned this during the 00:42:16.546 --> 00:42:27.425 - Legal report the. Corporation Council Marjorie said in talking with other department heads and determined 00:42:27.425 --> 00:42:37.894 - that there was a need for outside counsel to help with the covenants and restrictions and some of the 00:42:37.894 --> 00:42:45.694 - HOA documentation just due to the bandwidth of. What we have in the office. 00:42:45.986 --> 00:42:59.473 - And so as Corporation Council, she is the one who is able to enter into engagement letters to do that. 00:42:59.473 --> 00:43:12.830 - And so she has... She's online. I don't know if she wants to chime in. But the current letter is a... 00:43:13.346 --> 00:43:25.161 - engagement is a not to exceed of $25,000. And so that would be an administrative type of cost to the 00:43:25.161 --> 00:43:36.859 - RDC. But the bandwidth again of the legal departments to do that on top of everything else was just 00:43:36.859 --> 00:43:42.942 - too much. So she engaged outside counsel to assist. 00:43:43.874 --> 00:43:49.640 - I think it's designed to really expedite things. I mean, we also, if we're talking about condos for 00:43:49.640 --> 00:43:55.406 - the two multifamily structures, there needs to be a horizontal property regime. You know, there's a 00:43:55.406 --> 00:44:01.172 - lot of little minute details that we need to try and button up so that we don't get to the end, the 00:44:01.172 --> 00:44:07.227 - finish line and go, oops. So also purchase agreements to make sure that all of our language is in place, 00:44:07.227 --> 00:44:10.110 - rights of first, or rights of, I can't even talk. 00:44:10.274 --> 00:44:17.346 - tonight, rights of first refusal that should be part of those agreements. So just lots of little things 00:44:17.346 --> 00:44:24.282 - like that, but also the technical review of the civil engineers and planning, CBU, everyone. So we're 00:44:24.282 --> 00:44:31.286 - working as swiftly as possible, but a lot of details. And it did take quite some time to implement all 00:44:31.286 --> 00:44:36.318 - of the reasonable conditions that were added to the project from council. 00:44:37.442 --> 00:44:44.117 - So dealing with that word, I just heard from Dana in regards to it. Having outside counsel should expedite 00:44:44.117 --> 00:44:50.355 - the CCNRs and the necessary legal documents so we can get filed. Correct. Because you don't want to 00:44:50.355 --> 00:44:56.843 - do the secondary plat until you have the covenants and restrictions in place. Correct. Yeah. So I think 00:44:56.843 --> 00:45:03.082 - we're anticipating and hoping that we can go out for bid for infrastructure in February. So that is 00:45:03.082 --> 00:45:04.766 - the target date right now. 00:45:05.090 --> 00:45:11.470 - Hopefully, someone can be building yet this spring, summer. Yeah, because that's the goal we're looking 00:45:11.470 --> 00:45:17.788 - for come spring, that we start actually breaking down and providing housing. Right. So everyone thinks 00:45:17.788 --> 00:45:23.983 - it's taking a lot of time, but believe me, everyone is working really hard. Big shout out to Kendall 00:45:23.983 --> 00:45:30.301 - Kanoki in engineering and Anna Dragovich, who have all helped keep this moving as quickly as possible. 00:45:30.301 --> 00:45:33.982 - Legal has been working tirelessly. It's just a big project. 00:45:34.370 --> 00:45:41.043 - A lot of details, a lot of reasonable conditions to deal with. And with this, on the legal end of it, 00:45:41.043 --> 00:45:47.651 - do we have to go through a contract or are we already be able to engage quickly so we've got them on 00:45:47.651 --> 00:45:54.455 - board? They're already engaged. They're already engaged. All right, thank you. Okay, thank you for your 00:45:54.455 --> 00:45:59.166 - questions. We will now move on to other items of business starting with 00:45:59.362 --> 00:46:08.706 - We have two clean registers from October 23rd and November 6th, 2026. Well, November 6th, what's up 00:46:08.706 --> 00:46:18.050 - with that? We're not even there yet. Is that just? OK, anyway, it's for the time. It's 1024 to 116. 00:46:18.050 --> 00:46:27.394 - OK, so those are those cleaning periods and the previous one was 1010 to 1023, so it's when they'll 00:46:27.394 --> 00:46:28.702 - actually hit. 00:46:29.186 --> 00:46:34.858 - Right. That's the payday. That's the payday. So they're processed two weeks in advance for a payment. 00:46:34.858 --> 00:46:40.418 - So it's not often that the dates come up ahead of the actual meeting date. So I just wanted to make 00:46:40.418 --> 00:46:46.368 - sure that we were on the same page. It is surprising. We're not actually looking into the future. Exactly. 00:46:46.368 --> 00:46:51.984 - OK. So I'm just going to propose to RDC members that we consider either questions or motions on both 00:46:51.984 --> 00:46:57.601 - of these claims together unless you request to separate them. So any questions or comments on either 00:46:57.601 --> 00:46:59.102 - of these claims? Question. 00:46:59.778 --> 00:47:08.227 - Go ahead, John. You want to respond to that? Sure. John had emailed me a question regarding the crossroads 00:47:08.227 --> 00:47:16.123 - engineering claims that went through. There's six of them currently on page 506 of the claim period 00:47:16.123 --> 00:47:17.150 - 1024 to 116. 00:47:17.282 --> 00:47:26.455 - All of those claims were related to the beeline extension project that is going on. You guys approved 00:47:26.455 --> 00:47:35.447 - the resolution 25139 and 2625 for those. So that is just part of that project. And that's our local 00:47:35.447 --> 00:47:44.350 - match project that we had to do. Yeah. Next question? OK. The next question is a quamant, I guess. 00:47:45.058 --> 00:47:54.677 - Yes, a question and a comment. Okay, it's page one. Yeah, of course. You know, the account 53 990. Sorry, 00:47:54.677 --> 00:48:03.841 - it's claim October. October's claim. It's 1010 to 1023. Yeah, 1010 to 1023. Okay, 1010 to 1023. Yes, 00:48:03.841 --> 00:48:12.734 - sir. Account 53 990. It's line 9216. It's Williams Creek management for our evergreen project. So 00:48:12.834 --> 00:48:19.007 - The question I have is, since we've engaged legal to help with HOPE, well, can we engage someone to 00:48:19.007 --> 00:48:25.364 - help that one? Potentially, you know, we really don't know what to do with that situation. We met with 00:48:25.364 --> 00:48:31.907 - the homeowners several times according to the original agreement. The homeowners association was supposed 00:48:31.907 --> 00:48:38.265 - to take over that project and they do not feel like they are in a situation where they can financially 00:48:38.265 --> 00:48:39.006 - support it. 00:48:39.138 --> 00:48:46.271 - A lot of the homes have in the affordability periods have ended and there are new owners that knew nothing 00:48:46.271 --> 00:48:53.137 - of this situation. So, and in fact, I do believe that this Williams Creek agreement is expiring at the 00:48:53.137 --> 00:49:00.003 - end of the year. So we really do need to figure out what's next from my personal opinion to get an HOA 00:49:00.003 --> 00:49:02.270 - set up with no money in the bank. 00:49:02.594 --> 00:49:08.694 - is a hefty lift. And I think that that's one of the barriers. So if we were to consider transferring 00:49:08.694 --> 00:49:15.096 - this, it may be appropriate for you to entice with some seed money for that HOA to get it off the ground. 00:49:15.096 --> 00:49:21.196 - Otherwise, I just, I don't think that there's a lot of motivation. The city is still in ownership of 00:49:21.196 --> 00:49:27.477 - that retention pond, which is really that rain garden. And so we have to maintain it for CVU stormwater 00:49:27.477 --> 00:49:28.926 - purposes at this point. 00:49:29.026 --> 00:49:36.781 - But I think a transition plan where we potentially see that HOA might entice them to move. But we have 00:49:36.781 --> 00:49:44.536 - been unsuccessful in all of our meetings to date. That's why I bring this up, because this project has 00:49:44.536 --> 00:49:51.614 - been on for what, 15 years? Prior to this administration? I've only been here for a few, yes. 00:49:51.906 --> 00:49:57.708 - asked in regards to the comment or the question is what is the legal hurdles as we're looking to establish 00:49:57.708 --> 00:50:03.185 - HOAs for Hopewell that we could also actually utilize this so that 20 years from now we're still not 00:50:03.185 --> 00:50:09.150 - in that circumstance. And the homeowners have the control of their neighborhood, which was always the intent. 00:50:09.570 --> 00:50:16.170 - Well, and I think it's difficult. I don't want to speak for legal, but just from experience, you know, 00:50:16.170 --> 00:50:22.257 - setting up a new HOA is one thing, but once it's an established neighborhood, really that HOA, 00:50:22.257 --> 00:50:28.729 - those bylaws, everything associated needs to be decided by the homeowners, not by the city that only 00:50:28.729 --> 00:50:32.830 - owns one lot in the area. So we could, I don't know that hiring 00:50:32.962 --> 00:50:38.992 - outside council or structuring it for them is the right thing to do, but potentially seeing them with 00:50:38.992 --> 00:50:45.022 - the money to go make those decisions, to create those documents, that would be my personal opinion of 00:50:45.022 --> 00:50:51.230 - what the right thing to do. Sure. The problem that you always see in a homeowners association is getting 00:50:51.230 --> 00:50:57.319 - people to agree. And we are part of the homeowners association at the present moment. Is that correct? 00:50:57.319 --> 00:51:02.462 - Well, we have ownership. Yeah. So how to structure that? And I'll defer that to legal. 00:51:02.658 --> 00:51:08.507 - look at, because if we're establishing one for Hopewell, can we work on this one also in the same type 00:51:08.507 --> 00:51:14.356 - like? Oh, it's a different, way different scenario. Yes, different scenario and I'm not of the opinion 00:51:14.356 --> 00:51:20.602 - that you should, it would be similar. Okay. I think that they need to make those decisions as a neighborhood. 00:51:20.602 --> 00:51:26.735 - So they need to, we need to go to them or they need to come to us to ask for seed money to try to establish 00:51:26.735 --> 00:51:28.382 - it, because it won't go away 00:51:28.610 --> 00:51:35.389 - Well, we're at a crossroads when it comes to December. Like the end of December, their contract expires. 00:51:35.389 --> 00:51:41.909 - Williams Creek does for this management. So we need to figure out whether we offer the seed money to 00:51:41.909 --> 00:51:48.494 - get them going and give them an off-ramp, a timeline by which they need to execute in order to obtain 00:51:48.494 --> 00:51:55.079 - that money. And that's my suggestion. But of course, this is up to you guys. I'm not a voting member. 00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:57.790 - I like your plan. Just how do we execute? 00:51:58.018 --> 00:52:06.292 - you know, limited resources. We'll get it done. Okay, thank you. And then other questions. It would 00:52:06.292 --> 00:52:14.566 - be page four of page four of the packet. Number 29. And this is just a matter of miscellaneous that 00:52:14.566 --> 00:52:23.006 - plays all the way through through our utility bills. Again, just a comment based on utility bills and 00:52:23.006 --> 00:52:26.398 - maintenance for properties that we have. 00:52:26.626 --> 00:52:34.123 - that are either underutilized or not really anyone occupying at the present moment. It's about $18,000 00:52:34.123 --> 00:52:41.401 - when we total everything from janitorial to Duke in 2518. I know there's nothing we can do about it 00:52:41.401 --> 00:52:48.753 - at the present moment. We have to keep the facilities on. A lot of that is Hope Wall lighting. Those 00:52:48.753 --> 00:52:54.430 - are exterior lights that need to happen. Yeah, the particular ones I was more 00:52:54.850 --> 00:53:03.226 - question was, of course, our showers west in regards to our 714 utility bills and our college square. 00:53:03.226 --> 00:53:11.930 - Those would be the three in that particular room. I just want to make note that, you know, we're spending 00:53:11.930 --> 00:53:20.224 - a significant amount of money in underutilized facilities. And that takes care of my questions. That 00:53:20.224 --> 00:53:21.374 - was more of a 00:53:21.986 --> 00:53:34.908 - The question is, how do we not have? We're working on it. OK, any other questions on the claim registers 00:53:34.908 --> 00:53:47.708 - for both October 23rd and November 6th before we get a motion? One question on the November one on page 00:53:47.708 --> 00:53:50.046 - 639 of the packet. 00:53:50.658 --> 00:53:59.766 - Fund 4445, line 512. The seventh walnut garage taxes, which I know we've reviewed this before contractually, 00:53:59.766 --> 00:54:08.289 - were obligated to pay the property taxes for the seventh and walnut garage. And I guess this would be 00:54:08.289 --> 00:54:11.966 - a question for Jeff. When is that paid off? 00:54:14.498 --> 00:54:21.464 - so we can... When is the debt paid off? Yeah, when is the debt paid off? At that point, then the parking 00:54:21.464 --> 00:54:28.297 - garage, whatever portions is taxable. The walnut or the mercury? Walnut, yeah. This one is the seventh 00:54:28.297 --> 00:54:34.997 - and walnut at five. The walnut is February of 31. 31, so we're getting closer. Getting closer. Yeah, 00:54:34.997 --> 00:54:42.494 - because at that point, then those tax dollars will become part of the revenue that will come back into the city. 00:54:44.482 --> 00:54:51.025 - I mean, it'll be interesting to see what happens. The documents are really complicated, and I have not 00:54:51.025 --> 00:54:57.504 - yet. I mean, we're definitely going to need legal assistance to understand exactly what the impact is 00:54:57.504 --> 00:55:03.857 - once we pay off those leases. OK. Thank you. But it is definitely on my radar. OK. Appreciate that. 00:55:03.857 --> 00:55:10.590 - Thank you. OK. If there are no other questions, I will ask for a motion for both of these claims, please. 00:55:11.906 --> 00:55:18.869 - I'll move approval of claims for October 23rd and November 6th. Second. Move a first and a second. All 00:55:18.869 --> 00:55:25.630 - in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes unanimously. Thank you. Next item in the agenda, we also 00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:32.593 - have two payroll registers, one from October 16th, the other from October 30th. I will also invite you 00:55:32.593 --> 00:55:39.353 - to ask questions about both and entertain a motion for both at the same time. I'll make a motion to 00:55:39.353 --> 00:55:41.246 - approve of payroll records. 00:55:41.410 --> 00:55:48.918 - registers as presented. Second. First and a second all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed passes unanimously. 00:55:48.918 --> 00:55:55.879 - Now we have the minutes from three different meetings two executive sessions one from October 5th the 00:55:55.879 --> 00:56:02.909 - other from October 19th and then the regular meeting minutes from October 19th. I will also invite any 00:56:02.909 --> 00:56:08.574 - questions about these collectively as well as a motion that would cover all three. 00:56:11.074 --> 00:56:19.857 - I'll move approval of minutes for October 5th, October 19th in both cases. Second. We've got a first 00:56:19.857 --> 00:56:28.901 - and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes unanimously. Thank you. Okay, we are going 00:56:28.901 --> 00:56:37.597 - to a presentation on proposed product delivery system for 714 South Roger Street. Who would like to 00:56:37.597 --> 00:56:38.814 - present that? 00:56:39.106 --> 00:56:50.505 - and then there may be others jumping in. To start, I just wanted to kind of go back to the initial thought 00:56:50.505 --> 00:57:01.690 - of how the readaptive use of 714 building would work for the Bloomington Police Department headquarters. 00:57:01.690 --> 00:57:06.910 - And we originally started looking at the process 00:57:07.394 --> 00:57:17.991 - which would include an owner's representative who would be looking out for the RDC cities and Bloomington 00:57:17.991 --> 00:57:28.588 - police departments best interest in this. And then a CMC, which is a construction manager as constructor. 00:57:28.588 --> 00:57:37.086 - There are benefits to a CMC that such as at some point during the process they would 00:57:37.218 --> 00:57:46.881 - could end up with a guaranteed maximum price. And then if there's overruns or issues with subcontractors, 00:57:46.881 --> 00:57:56.727 - things like that, the construction manager would be the one that would have to deal with all that. However, 00:57:56.727 --> 00:58:06.846 - during the process of looking for an owner's representative, we now got some proposals of people familiar with 00:58:07.362 --> 00:58:18.228 - Bloomington and the project, yet none of the proposals were well-suited for what the RDC's needs were 00:58:18.228 --> 00:58:28.881 - in the project. So during discussions about that, it was brought up by a department head, a contact 00:58:28.881 --> 00:58:35.806 - that they had, or company they had heard about, Garmong. And so, 00:58:36.194 --> 00:58:46.640 - When that was mentioned, I perked up my ears because I had a contact at Garmong that I had previously 00:58:46.640 --> 00:58:57.188 - worked with and was familiar with. His name's Dan Zerner. And so I contacted Dan and asked him if they 00:58:57.188 --> 00:59:05.790 - would be interested in being owner's representative and give us a proposal on that. 00:59:05.954 --> 00:59:19.016 - And he asked to meet. And so Anna Killian Hanson and I met with him outside the 714 Roger Street building. 00:59:19.016 --> 00:59:30.614 - And prior to that, I had given him the reports that we had to date on the building. And during 00:59:30.614 --> 00:59:34.398 - our discussions, he brought up 00:59:35.042 --> 00:59:47.636 - idea of, instead of using an owner's representative and a CMC, of using a CMA instead, which a CMA is 00:59:47.636 --> 01:00:00.847 - a construction manager as an agent. So they act as an owner's representative. They aren't the constructor, 01:00:00.847 --> 01:00:04.798 - so they aren't contracting with 01:00:05.250 --> 01:00:17.379 - any of the subs they are so there's no financial benefit to them in any of those financial or contractual 01:00:17.379 --> 01:00:29.737 - obligations their whole financial interest would be for the city and so that therefore that would eliminate 01:00:29.737 --> 01:00:35.230 - the need of an owner's representative there are 01:00:35.362 --> 01:00:47.457 - pros and cons, which I'll talk about in a minute, but after he spoke with Anna and I, we felt that this 01:00:47.457 --> 01:00:59.087 - sounded like a good approach, and so he met with a larger city team to explain the process, and the 01:00:59.087 --> 01:01:03.390 - larger city team also felt that this 01:01:03.554 --> 01:01:13.943 - looked like a way to go, but felt that we needed to reach out to some other people as well. Now, CMC, 01:01:13.943 --> 01:01:23.822 - there's a statute that requires you to go through a request for proposal process. For an owner's 01:01:23.822 --> 01:01:29.118 - representative, that's not required. It's services. 01:01:29.250 --> 01:01:42.666 - and for a CMA that's not required its services. Yet, for due diligence purposes, the team felt that 01:01:42.666 --> 01:01:57.022 - it was important to reach out to others that are known CMA vendors and to get proposals from them as well. 01:01:58.114 --> 01:02:10.315 - looking at those proposals compared to the information that Garmong had presented in the meeting with 01:02:10.315 --> 01:02:22.397 - us and he had actually presented a proposed agreement. The Garmong group was less, their pricing was 01:02:22.397 --> 01:02:24.670 - less. They were at 01:02:25.058 --> 01:02:33.909 - 2% for the construction management, 2% of construction costs. We received two proposals from the several, 01:02:33.909 --> 01:02:42.509 - I think there was six or seven that was requested from maybe. And one of the others was 2.25%. And the 01:02:42.509 --> 01:02:51.193 - other had a very interesting way that they laid everything out. And when you kind of added it together, 01:02:51.193 --> 01:02:54.366 - it looked like it was more like 2.9%. 01:02:54.530 --> 01:03:03.115 - The two and a quarter percent company also required or said there would be additional costs for any 01:03:03.115 --> 01:03:11.957 - pre-construction work. So any of the design work that they would do with the architects and, you know, 01:03:11.957 --> 01:03:20.542 - making sure that they had value engineering through the process, all of that would be an additional 01:03:20.542 --> 01:03:24.062 - cost that they did not give a price for. 01:03:24.162 --> 01:03:40.662 - Garmong has offered to do those services for not to exceed fee of $20,000. So anyway, as a short discussion 01:03:40.662 --> 01:03:53.342 - of the difference between the two, again, the major benefit to the city of the CMA 01:03:53.794 --> 01:04:05.120 - is that the CMA is again looking out for the best interest of the city. They have no benefit, financial 01:04:05.120 --> 01:04:16.229 - interest at all in the contracts. So their interest is solely in getting the best product at the best 01:04:16.229 --> 01:04:22.110 - price and looking out for the city. And the owner has 01:04:23.714 --> 01:04:34.654 - using this CMA approach, you do not get the guaranteed maximum price, but you have to understand how 01:04:34.654 --> 01:04:46.136 - the guaranteed maximum price is set, and that isn't set until bidding is complete, and then a contingency 01:04:46.136 --> 01:04:52.094 - is added to that. Well, once the bidding is completed, 01:04:52.962 --> 01:05:01.715 - complete and they had a contingency, that contingency would actually be the city's contingency and not 01:05:01.715 --> 01:05:10.213 - theirs with the CMA. So the city would be controlling that contingency. So there's a benefit there. 01:05:10.213 --> 01:05:19.052 - Another benefit is that the CMA would divide out the bidding into prime contracts. So instead of having 01:05:19.052 --> 01:05:22.366 - one general contractor, there would be 01:05:22.818 --> 01:05:32.786 - four or five, three, four, five prime contractors that where you would divide out the scope of work 01:05:32.786 --> 01:05:43.252 - to fit their trades. And therefore you can reduce the number of markups from subs by doing that as well. 01:05:43.252 --> 01:05:51.326 - So their cost savings there. So Dan had talked to us and knowing that the budget 01:05:51.522 --> 01:06:00.718 - this project is so tight that was the first thing he said when we met is that it's going to be very 01:06:00.718 --> 01:06:10.190 - difficult to do this project with this budget and so you need to find a way to save as much as you can 01:06:10.190 --> 01:06:20.030 - and going the CMA route is a route that could save you money that could be put into the project instead of 01:06:20.162 --> 01:06:35.380 - fees and other costs. So let me see what I'm missing here. The other benefit to the city is that the 01:06:35.380 --> 01:06:46.078 - city, you know, the CMC, when they, yes, they would have the contracts 01:06:46.402 --> 01:06:56.407 - And they would be responsible for the subcontractors. If there's failures to do the work and inefficiencies, 01:06:56.407 --> 01:07:05.586 - they would be responsible for that. Yet, they'd have to deal with that. But that doesn't mean there 01:07:05.586 --> 01:07:14.398 - wouldn't be those issues. You might have those same issues even if the city held the contracts. 01:07:14.818 --> 01:07:24.856 - But if the city held the contracts, the city wouldn't be in control of dealing with that directly. And 01:07:24.856 --> 01:07:34.796 - you still have the construction manager that's looking out after that day after day after day, making 01:07:34.796 --> 01:07:44.542 - sure to catch those things as they were to happen to try to head them off at the pass, so to speak. 01:07:44.866 --> 01:07:55.218 - pros and cons of each one. It did appear, at least to me, that the CMA would give more money to the 01:07:55.218 --> 01:08:05.881 - project and more flexibility as well. Because the CMA, we could, once you have your project and you're 01:08:05.881 --> 01:08:13.438 - guaranteed a master in the process, you have your project. With the CMA, 01:08:13.538 --> 01:08:22.597 - If you start down the road and find out that there's an issue and you need to pivot, you can pivot because 01:08:22.597 --> 01:08:31.487 - you've got that flexibility. You don't have a contract for the entire thing. So there's some flexibility 01:08:31.487 --> 01:08:39.954 - there. I did invite Dan Zerner to join us. He understands that you guys are just hearing about this 01:08:39.954 --> 01:08:42.494 - for the first time, so you've 01:08:42.754 --> 01:08:52.034 - You're not going to make any decisions tonight on whether you want to do a CMC or CMA or whatever, but 01:08:52.034 --> 01:09:01.405 - he can help explain the differences between the two, how a CMA works best for this project. He can tell 01:09:01.405 --> 01:09:09.694 - you a little bit about his company. If you decided to do a CMA route, we wouldn't recommend 01:09:09.794 --> 01:09:20.794 - Garmong is to go with, again, we did due diligence in looking for the owner's rep, which was not suitable. 01:09:20.794 --> 01:09:31.280 - We did our due diligence with looking for the CMA. Again, even though we heard from Dan first, we did 01:09:31.280 --> 01:09:39.710 - go and seek other proposals. And Garmong led by not only pricing, but experience. 01:09:39.842 --> 01:09:49.121 - And so we wouldn't recommend him if you chose to go that route. But again, he understands he's not here 01:09:49.121 --> 01:09:58.044 - to, that you're not gonna vote on a contract for it tonight, that you're not even possibly choosing 01:09:58.044 --> 01:10:05.182 - a direction to go. But we're trying to help you with understanding the process. 01:10:05.346 --> 01:10:14.057 - And another thing I meant to mention with the CMA is since the contracts are with the city, it's a much 01:10:14.057 --> 01:10:22.685 - more transparent approach. With the CMC, they hold the contracts. You don't necessarily see them. It's 01:10:22.685 --> 01:10:31.815 - not a public bidding process. You don't know what you're getting for what. So there's some more transparency 01:10:31.815 --> 01:10:35.166 - that you get when the city is doing the 01:10:35.426 --> 01:10:43.448 - the bidding. So I think that was the last point I want to try to get in there. But anyway, this is Dan 01:10:43.448 --> 01:10:51.703 - Zerner from Garmong. And I'd, again, like for him to start with adding anything to the difference between 01:10:51.703 --> 01:11:00.192 - CMA and CMC and why CMA would work best for this particular project. A quick question. When you're referring 01:11:00.192 --> 01:11:01.438 - to CMA and CMC, 01:11:01.602 --> 01:11:09.068 - CMC or construction management as constructor. That's the CNT2 thing. And then we're also looking at 01:11:09.068 --> 01:11:16.756 - it from an owner's rep standpoint that we've went out to previously. If we're talking about two, should 01:11:16.756 --> 01:11:24.222 - we talk about the third also so we get a good understanding? With an owner's rep, you still need the 01:11:24.222 --> 01:11:29.470 - construction manager as constructor. We would just have an owner's rep 01:11:29.890 --> 01:11:39.541 - work with the construction manager to represent our interest, to make sure our interest was represented 01:11:39.541 --> 01:11:48.821 - all the way through. So owner's rep is not a third mechanism. It would be used with the CMC. So the 01:11:48.821 --> 01:11:58.564 - CMA is a way to combine the construction management part with the owner's representative part. So during 01:11:58.564 --> 01:11:59.678 - the initial 01:12:00.034 --> 01:12:08.053 - the initial pre-construction, which would be from, depending on how early the CMA was brought on, from 01:12:08.053 --> 01:12:16.384 - helping select the architect engineers to, through the bidding process, those services would be considered 01:12:16.384 --> 01:12:24.170 - owner's representative type services. And then the construction manager services would kick in, but 01:12:24.170 --> 01:12:27.518 - it would still be as an agent for the city 01:12:27.906 --> 01:12:34.102 - and not as a constructor, but they would do all the things that the construction manager as construction 01:12:34.102 --> 01:12:40.179 - would do. And then the architectural and the engineer from their construction management. You wouldn't 01:12:40.179 --> 01:12:46.198 - include that. That would be part of the CMA. You will have an architect and an engineer. Right. We'll 01:12:46.198 --> 01:12:52.335 - have an architect and engineer, but any construction management services would then be transferred from 01:12:52.335 --> 01:12:55.934 - architect and engineer into a construction management agent. 01:12:56.034 --> 01:13:03.109 - Okay, you wouldn't have extended services as you and I know of an architect's contract. Okay. Good question. 01:13:03.109 --> 01:13:09.600 - Thank you. So I guess if you're looking at me, it's my time. First of all, I want to thank Dana and 01:13:09.600 --> 01:13:16.221 - Anna and Anna for all the conversations we've had about this project to this point. Second, as I told 01:13:16.221 --> 01:13:20.894 - the other group, my kids tell me that I'm not who are now in their 40s. 01:13:21.058 --> 01:13:26.299 - Tell me that I'm not sucking up, but I do want you to know that I reviewed all your bios today. And 01:13:26.299 --> 01:13:31.802 - how humbled I am to be a part of this group and be here this evening and thank you for this opportunity. 01:13:31.802 --> 01:13:37.410 - Third, I want to assure you that there is no pressure on my part here. You should know that I was actually 01:13:37.410 --> 01:13:42.703 - the liaison to the City of Lawrence Redevelopment Commissioner for Mary Collier for four years. So I 01:13:42.703 --> 01:13:46.686 - understand exactly what you're going through and the role you have to play. 01:13:47.618 --> 01:13:54.418 - And I'm here primarily to provide clarity and to answer your questions. And if the opportunity comes, 01:13:54.418 --> 01:14:01.284 - I would be glad to serve you. I would be the guy serving you as your lead in this project. It wouldn't 01:14:01.284 --> 01:14:08.350 - be somebody any less senior. I am the most senior person at Garmont. I've been there 26 years. I probably 01:14:08.350 --> 01:14:14.750 - run close to a billion dollars in projects. Just to give you some idea, something very complex. 01:14:15.778 --> 01:14:21.368 - This is an extremely complex project as we're looking at it today. When you look at the Hopewell component 01:14:21.368 --> 01:14:26.697 - with all the utilities and stormwater and coordination that goes on there, the smallness of the site, 01:14:26.697 --> 01:14:32.026 - the complexities that were going to occur, I might kind of equate it with a project you probably know 01:14:32.026 --> 01:14:37.303 - about. But every time you go through Martinsville, if you make a left and go up like you used to and 01:14:37.303 --> 01:14:40.542 - you pass the south central RMC building, that was my project. 01:14:40.674 --> 01:14:46.535 - That was a seven-year development project to put Watt Auto Band on 15 acres in a seven-acre spot. It 01:14:46.535 --> 01:14:52.337 - had the primary Duke service line, the city split the middle of that project. It had the main sewer 01:14:52.337 --> 01:14:58.140 - line for the entire city of Martinsville come right down through the center of that project. We had 01:14:58.140 --> 01:15:03.943 - massive amounts of work to do to prepare that project and keep them in full operation while we were 01:15:03.943 --> 01:15:09.920 - there. So I am familiar with very difficult projects. I don't say that to be arrogant, but that's just 01:15:09.920 --> 01:15:10.558 - what I do. 01:15:12.258 --> 01:15:18.636 - I want to talk a little bit about the delivery systems in a different context and share with you a little 01:15:18.636 --> 01:15:24.834 - bit about Garmong and the process. When I came to Garmong in 2000, we were a $12 million company. This 01:15:24.834 --> 01:15:30.971 - year we'll do $500 million. We have offices now in Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, Terre Haute, Evansville, 01:15:30.971 --> 01:15:37.289 - and Savannah, Georgia. The Savannah, Georgia offices will do nothing but build prisons. That's its whole 01:15:37.289 --> 01:15:38.974 - focus, is to build prisons. 01:15:39.938 --> 01:15:46.280 - Our projects range in size right now, a project of $1.2 billion. We're finishing up for the state of 01:15:46.280 --> 01:15:52.685 - Indiana at a new prison that's a square mile under roof up in Westfield to $2 and $3 million. I would 01:15:52.685 --> 01:15:59.278 - say our sweet spot right now is somewhere in the $75 million project range. It's probably where we spend 01:15:59.278 --> 01:16:05.934 - a lot of time, but we do a lot of projects between $25 and $75 million. Delivery system-wise, it's really 01:16:05.934 --> 01:16:06.750 - interesting. 01:16:07.170 --> 01:16:12.923 - We do a lot of CMC work. It might surprise you to know that when the state, that's a relatively new 01:16:12.923 --> 01:16:18.792 - statute for yous that don't know it. It was about five years ago that the state of Indiana passed the 01:16:18.792 --> 01:16:24.603 - CMC legislation for public works. Prior to that, you could not do CMC in Indiana. So it's relatively 01:16:24.603 --> 01:16:30.471 - new. When that happened, Purdue University actually hired us to write their operations manager on CMC 01:16:30.471 --> 01:16:32.830 - to build their $200 million honors dorm. 01:16:34.114 --> 01:16:40.842 - So we have a tremendous amount of CMC experience. And then most of you that have been around know that 01:16:40.842 --> 01:16:47.962 - the latest buzzword is BOT. That's the new buzzword. And so we right now probably have, I'm just speculating 01:16:47.962 --> 01:16:54.624 - off the top of my head, we probably have 200 million in CMC work, 200 million in BOT work, and I have 01:16:54.624 --> 01:17:01.483 - about 150 million in CMA work. For the BOT, if you could explain that, please. Sure, I'd love to. That's 01:17:01.483 --> 01:17:04.030 - a build, operate, transfer. Thank you. 01:17:04.482 --> 01:17:09.189 - It originally started out with jails and hospitals and all where you would build it. You'd get it up 01:17:09.189 --> 01:17:13.989 - to fully operational and then you'd transfer the ownership over and you'd carry all the carrying costs 01:17:13.989 --> 01:17:18.649 - for the project as you went through the build operating procedure. What it's really become is a way 01:17:18.649 --> 01:17:23.449 - to get around the old bidding statutes because you can hire anybody you want to do the project. That's 01:17:23.449 --> 01:17:28.062 - really what BOT does for you. It allows you to hire anybody you want as a team to do your project. 01:17:29.058 --> 01:17:34.755 - And but most of the time now because they found out they had to pay the carrying costs one way or the 01:17:34.755 --> 01:17:40.452 - other either at the end or during the beginning. I would say a lot of that's transferring back to CMC 01:17:40.452 --> 01:17:46.094 - now in that regard. So I can talk to you equally about delivery systems and Garmont would be pleased 01:17:46.094 --> 01:17:51.847 - to build your project any way you want as would numerous other people. So I'm not prejudiced. I'd like 01:17:51.847 --> 01:17:57.488 - to say I'm not prejudiced to delivery systems. We'll deliver this project any way you'd like to have 01:17:57.488 --> 01:17:58.270 - it delivered. 01:17:58.434 --> 01:18:04.578 - If you go to CMC, then you have to turn around and go back out for proposals. And you get proposals 01:18:04.578 --> 01:18:11.090 - from teams to come back in, and you evaluate those proposals. As Dan already mentioned, CMA is considered 01:18:11.090 --> 01:18:17.479 - a professional service, because just like any engineering firm, we are responsible to you and you only. 01:18:17.479 --> 01:18:23.807 - We are a single service provider with the full responsibility of serving you. Some people like to say, 01:18:23.807 --> 01:18:26.142 - well, you don't have any risk of CMA. 01:18:26.754 --> 01:18:32.325 - because you don't have any money at stake. Well, I like to say I have the biggest risk, because my reputation 01:18:32.325 --> 01:18:37.389 - is 100% at stake with CMA. If I don't deliver, and you tell every other city in town that I didn't, 01:18:37.389 --> 01:18:42.707 - or in the county state I don't deliver, that's probably the biggest risk a guy could have in his career. 01:18:42.707 --> 01:18:47.873 - In my knowledge, in the 26 years I've been here, has every project gone perfect? No, but anybody that 01:18:47.873 --> 01:18:52.937 - tells you there will be such a thing as a perfect project, specifically this project, there's going 01:18:52.937 --> 01:18:54.558 - to be issues with this project. 01:18:55.810 --> 01:19:02.231 - I think to have a guy that's in your corner that has the reputation I do to fight for you like I fight 01:19:02.231 --> 01:19:08.651 - for you, and the team I will have behind me, which is second to none in Indiana, our typical schematic 01:19:08.651 --> 01:19:15.010 - phase estimate, for example, which is only at about 15, 20% design, is usually within 3% of the final 01:19:15.010 --> 01:19:21.306 - project cost. So one of the things that I think we can do for you is help you get to an early budget 01:19:21.306 --> 01:19:23.550 - and understand where we really are. 01:19:24.674 --> 01:19:30.369 - There's a lot of variables working in this community. This is a great community, and it's because you 01:19:30.369 --> 01:19:36.008 - have so many variables. But I don't have anywhere else, for example, that I'm gonna have to pay a 1% 01:19:36.008 --> 01:19:41.591 - deduct to an art council. That's probably a good thing, but it's coming off the top, right? So when 01:19:41.591 --> 01:19:47.230 - we look at 30 million, we gotta figure out right away, 1% is coming right off that project. And then 01:19:47.230 --> 01:19:49.854 - we have other factors we have to work through. 01:19:50.754 --> 01:19:56.703 - I think there are a lot of ideas we can bring to the table. One of the things that I've already suggested, 01:19:56.703 --> 01:20:01.817 - and I want to thank Anna Dragovich for her work on the RFPs. She's collaborated with me. We 01:20:01.817 --> 01:20:07.655 - made modifications together with the RFP to be sure it was more reflective of what I think some of these 01:20:07.655 --> 01:20:13.214 - issues are. I'm not worried about a contract, but I've already agreed to sit with Anna and her team 01:20:13.346 --> 01:20:18.818 - on the interviews to be sure that we ask the architects the right questions to drill down and get to 01:20:18.818 --> 01:20:24.453 - you what you need to do to have the best architect and engineer, because that's going to influence this 01:20:24.453 --> 01:20:30.033 - project dramatically. How do we tie this in? Another thing that's a concern to me that I'll be looking 01:20:30.033 --> 01:20:35.776 - for is we get closer way down the line towards bidding packages. But how do we structure bidding packages 01:20:35.776 --> 01:20:41.302 - to give Bloomington, Monroe County contractors the best opportunity to compete in a world that if the 01:20:41.302 --> 01:20:42.494 - playing field's level 01:20:43.330 --> 01:20:48.885 - Can they compete better than bring somebody outside to do the work? I think it's important to try to 01:20:48.885 --> 01:20:54.495 - make this an economic development project if we can and keep as much of that work in town. So anyway, 01:20:54.495 --> 01:21:00.106 - CMA, in my view, allows me to do a lot of things for you. It allows me to start with the architect on 01:21:00.106 --> 01:21:05.606 - day one and be sure that we're designing the most efficient way to build whatever we need to build. 01:21:05.606 --> 01:21:11.326 - Now, it won't necessarily be true on this as an example, but it's the example that's on top of my head. 01:21:11.906 --> 01:21:17.384 - When you're in engineering architect school, a lot of times you're taught design. For example, a steel 01:21:17.384 --> 01:21:22.916 - engineer will often design a steel by the pound. And so they try to design as light as they can to save 01:21:22.916 --> 01:21:28.394 - money on steel. Or we might look at that and say, you know, if you make that steel two gauges heavier, 01:21:28.394 --> 01:21:33.713 - we need two less bolts in every connection. Two less bolts may save us X amount of labor. Those are 01:21:33.713 --> 01:21:39.192 - the kind of things that we're going to be looking at on your behalf to see how we can do that. Another 01:21:39.192 --> 01:21:40.734 - thing I think is going to be 01:21:41.730 --> 01:21:47.294 - problematic here is the coordinating and scheduling with your adjoining housing project and how the 01:21:47.294 --> 01:21:53.136 - stormwater and utilities all tie in. How do we keep the schedule going? How do we keep the streets clean 01:21:53.136 --> 01:21:58.811 - and not impact? It'd be our job to coordinate all that safety and security that's going to have to go 01:21:58.811 --> 01:22:04.597 - along with that particular section of town as part of the construction project. And the real difference 01:22:04.597 --> 01:22:09.438 - is I'm not going to be looking at as a CMC, I'm looking at how do I keep my profit up? 01:22:11.490 --> 01:22:16.952 - while I'm doing all those things for you, as a CMA, that's not a concern to me. My concern is 100% your 01:22:16.952 --> 01:22:22.466 - interest, and it's our job to keep everybody in line to those interests. Another thing I think is really 01:22:22.466 --> 01:22:27.770 - important, because you all haven't seen my proposed contract to the city that Dana and I have worked 01:22:27.770 --> 01:22:33.337 - out, my proposed contract says you can cancel my contract at any point in time with no penalty. No cause, 01:22:33.337 --> 01:22:38.798 - no penalty, no reason. You can cancel it. If at any point in time you don't think I'm doing a good job, 01:22:38.798 --> 01:22:41.214 - I think you need to be able to get rid of me. 01:22:42.882 --> 01:22:48.498 - But also what that does, I think, let's say we went four months down the road or five months down the 01:22:48.498 --> 01:22:54.058 - road, and we all decided after all the work we're doing, this project just isn't going to fly. For a 01:22:54.058 --> 01:22:59.784 - whole bunch of reasons, this old building, we just can't get it to where we want economically. We could 01:22:59.784 --> 01:23:05.454 - kill my contract and turn around and build a new building, either under CMA or CMC, and start all over 01:23:05.454 --> 01:23:11.070 - with it, with hardly any financial consequence to you other than what we spent in preliminary design. 01:23:12.258 --> 01:23:18.625 - So I think it offers you a tremendous amount of flexibility as CMA. I have a tendency to talk way too 01:23:18.625 --> 01:23:24.930 - much. And when I do, I get in trouble. I know that you've had a lot of real estate experience, John. 01:23:24.930 --> 01:23:31.359 - I've known Randy for a long time. Our companies have worked together. But I would rather at this point 01:23:31.359 --> 01:23:37.726 - stop and just breathe for a minute and take your questions, because I'm sure you got a bunch of them. 01:23:40.770 --> 01:23:48.135 - to ask a question about how your fee structure works. Sure. You have a flat fee structure, at least 01:23:48.135 --> 01:23:55.499 - to my understanding from what Mr. Kerr said, that would be for owner's representative services. And 01:23:55.499 --> 01:24:02.937 - then you're also describing where there'll be additional fees for the actual construction management 01:24:02.937 --> 01:24:10.302 - component. May I help you with that? Yes, please. So there's two technical terms that we live with. 01:24:10.818 --> 01:24:16.485 - are pre-construction and construction. So we have offered you a pre-construction phase fee, which is 01:24:16.485 --> 01:24:22.601 - way below market rate. And if I were you, I'd be suspicious of that. That's why I'm asking you the question. 01:24:22.601 --> 01:24:28.323 - Why would he possibly do that? Well, one is I think we need to earn your respect and earn your way to 01:24:28.323 --> 01:24:33.822 - the table and take the risk away from you in that pre-construction phase. Randy understands that. 01:24:34.274 --> 01:24:40.898 - For $20,000, it's going to cost us $150,000 to live that pre-construction phase, right? But we're also 01:24:40.898 --> 01:24:47.328 - going to charge you 2% for construction of a $30 million project. So 2% of $30,600,000 if my math's 01:24:47.328 --> 01:24:54.016 - right. We're willing to give up $100,000 up front to prove that we're as good as we say we are and help 01:24:54.016 --> 01:25:00.318 - you get to a project. Because if there is no project to construct, there is no $600,000, correct? 01:25:01.058 --> 01:25:07.085 - So I'm just being 100% transparent with you, that's the logic that goes into that. But for pre-construction, 01:25:07.085 --> 01:25:12.835 - what we're committing to is we're gonna sit with that architect, we're gonna work all the budget issues 01:25:12.835 --> 01:25:18.531 - out, we're gonna work the scope issues out, we're gonna work all the details that go with construction 01:25:18.531 --> 01:25:24.226 - out, get it to bid, and bid the project for you, all for $20,000. And at the time, and that's a value, 01:25:24.226 --> 01:25:30.142 - by the time you get those bids, we're gonna know exactly what that project's gonna cost, and this is where 01:25:30.882 --> 01:25:36.462 - Internally, we have our own debates about CMA and CMC. Because everybody wants a guaranteed maximum 01:25:36.462 --> 01:25:42.042 - price, and it's sold by a lot of people to municipalities as the greatest thing since sliced bread. 01:25:42.042 --> 01:25:47.790 - But a guaranteed maximum price isn't established until the bids are actually received. It's like going 01:25:47.790 --> 01:25:53.425 - to the back of the grocery store and picking up that gallon of milk for four bucks or whatever it is 01:25:53.425 --> 01:25:56.606 - today. I haven't bought a gallon of milk in a long time. 01:25:57.602 --> 01:26:02.919 - I used to work in a grocery store business, and I remember it at 49 cents. But you grab that gallon 01:26:02.919 --> 01:26:08.715 - of milk and you bring it up front, it's still $4 or whatever it was in the back. So when you're establishing 01:26:08.715 --> 01:26:14.244 - a guaranteed maximum price, they're really not taking the risk that you think they are. Plus, then they 01:26:14.244 --> 01:26:19.615 - add a contingency on top of that. And that contingency, in all fairness, can be negotiated a million 01:26:19.615 --> 01:26:25.038 - ways. It can be all the city's money that you control with a line item. It can be their money. It can 01:26:25.038 --> 01:26:26.846 - be sometimes they have guaranteed 01:26:27.074 --> 01:26:32.491 - savings, where they split the savings costs. What I'm proposing is that we're going to put together 01:26:32.491 --> 01:26:38.179 - the budget as CMA. We're going to know exactly what the cost is, and we're going to decide collectively, 01:26:38.179 --> 01:26:43.867 - as an RDC, as a team, how much contingency within the budget do we have to have to protect our interests 01:26:43.867 --> 01:26:49.392 - to be sure we've got enough money to finish the job. Normally that's, in this market right now, as of 01:26:49.392 --> 01:26:53.726 - all those things are, that's normally five or six percent of total contingency. 01:26:54.434 --> 01:27:00.481 - So a $30 million project, I would want you to have at least 5% put back for contingency items. Now, 01:27:00.481 --> 01:27:06.770 - there's a lot of details in this that we haven't even begun to think about. One of them is called FF&E. 01:27:06.770 --> 01:27:12.818 - But as we go through the pre-con, we have to decide for furniture, fixtures, and equipment. Where's 01:27:12.818 --> 01:27:18.986 - that all going to come from? How much is new? How much is transferred? How do we finance that as part 01:27:18.986 --> 01:27:24.126 - of the project? And you want that in your budget. You don't want that to come later. 01:27:25.154 --> 01:27:30.671 - Those are all details that we will be looking at on your behalf to help drive and manage and program. 01:27:30.671 --> 01:27:36.079 - If you look at the original study of the building, I know just enough to be dangerous, because this 01:27:36.079 --> 01:27:41.596 - is all I've seen. I have studied this inside and out. I've had a long conversation with both Anna and 01:27:41.596 --> 01:27:47.005 - Dana. Anna this morning was, Anna Dragovich was gracious enough to give me an hour on the phone. We 01:27:47.005 --> 01:27:51.710 - talked about the building at length. But I have not even been inside the building yet. 01:27:53.026 --> 01:27:59.131 - But I have a pretty good idea what I'm going to see. This building is almost identical to a building 01:27:59.131 --> 01:28:05.236 - I rehabbed in Terre Haute that was a housing project for Westminster Village in Terre Haute. They're 01:28:05.236 --> 01:28:11.522 - core slab floors, eight foot off the park. We'll probably have to use a VRF or some type of refrigerant 01:28:11.522 --> 01:28:17.929 - flow system to keep the ceiling heights acceptable. We may even have to cut a few of those ceiling panels 01:28:17.929 --> 01:28:23.006 - out if we put dispatch in there, those sorts of things. But I think it can be done. 01:28:23.682 --> 01:28:30.489 - And I understand the value of trying to restore the project. So I'm committed to make this building 01:28:30.489 --> 01:28:37.296 - work right now until we get to a point where at some point the flag just goes up and says, no, this 01:28:37.296 --> 01:28:44.443 - doesn't fly. And I'm not afraid to tell you if I get to that point. But I'm not there yet. I think there 01:28:44.443 --> 01:28:51.454 - is a really, I would call it a 75% chance right now that this is where we want to be. And to that end, 01:28:52.514 --> 01:28:58.107 - We all agreed when we put the RFP out that we took any reference to a new project out. I wanted all 01:28:58.107 --> 01:29:03.868 - the focus by the design teams to be on how can we utilize this building? What are the issues? What are 01:29:03.868 --> 01:29:09.629 - the opportunities? What's the focus? I only wanted to think, for example, that there's an out by going 01:29:09.629 --> 01:29:15.334 - to a new building. I'll give you an example of that. It's not totally accurate, but one of the things 01:29:15.334 --> 01:29:20.983 - I just helped out Hendricks County with, which is my biggest client, is they ran into a problem with 01:29:20.983 --> 01:29:22.046 - an animal shelter. 01:29:22.242 --> 01:29:28.018 - I'm not gonna go through the full story, but the bottom line is they brought a firm out of Pennsylvania 01:29:28.018 --> 01:29:33.961 - that specializes in animal facilities to give an air quality study. And that firm was a firm that designed 01:29:33.961 --> 01:29:39.570 - animal facilities for lilies and phisers and all kinds of laboratory units. And they saw this animal 01:29:39.570 --> 01:29:45.180 - shelter sitting under Henry's County new $70 million jail. We get to build a new animal shelter. And 01:29:45.180 --> 01:29:46.846 - they wrote a scathing report. 01:29:46.978 --> 01:29:52.720 - that made its way to Facebook before the commissioners got it said we believe the air quality might 01:29:52.720 --> 01:29:58.635 - be making our employees sick. You can imagine what that did when it really wasn't true. And so instead 01:29:58.635 --> 01:30:04.377 - of 20 million for an animal shelter, we just finished the total rehab of that building for $750,000 01:30:04.377 --> 01:30:10.177 - and met all the code requirements and standards. I think we can look at this building from that same 01:30:10.177 --> 01:30:15.230 - perspective. What do we have to do? So one of the things that I'm looking at already is 01:30:15.938 --> 01:30:20.942 - It appears to me that the people did this study tried to figure out how to use every corner of the building. 01:30:20.942 --> 01:30:25.532 - I don't think the police department is going to need four floors. I think they may need two floors, 01:30:25.532 --> 01:30:30.307 - two and a half floors. I don't know that answer yet. But I don't think we build out the entire building 01:30:30.307 --> 01:30:35.081 - if they don't need the entire building. I think we do the renovations to the exterior. I think we shell 01:30:35.081 --> 01:30:39.672 - it. We secure it. We make it all right. But then maybe there's an opportunity for the RDC to either 01:30:39.672 --> 01:30:44.446 - A, lease that space to a compatible private entity that would like to be next to the police department, 01:30:44.930 --> 01:30:50.944 - or B, use it for some other services that are adjacent. But I think we have to look at every possible 01:30:50.944 --> 01:30:56.839 - avenue as to how this building is going to be used, what's really required, and what we can afford, 01:30:56.839 --> 01:31:02.794 - and figure that out. The last thing I will tell you, and then I'll try to answer all your questions. 01:31:02.794 --> 01:31:08.984 - Hendricks County, in two weeks, we're going to cut a ribbon on a new highway garage that was $32 million 01:31:08.984 --> 01:31:14.526 - by the architect when I got hired. I got hired because they only had $19 million and $50,000. 01:31:15.554 --> 01:31:23.749 - We're finishing that project at 18,947,100 under where we were in 1950, which was a long way off of 01:31:23.749 --> 01:31:31.206 - 32 million. And we gave the city or the county everything they wanted on 17 acres. I think 01:31:31.206 --> 01:31:40.056 - there's opportunity here to do something really great. I don't know in my mind yet whether it's 30 million, 01:31:40.056 --> 01:31:43.006 - 35 million, 28 million, 42 million. 01:31:43.874 --> 01:31:51.233 - But what we'll be able to do is in very incremental phases consistently, we'll be able to advise you 01:31:51.233 --> 01:31:58.665 - where we are with that. And have you help us and guide us as to how aggressive we want to be or where 01:31:58.665 --> 01:32:06.170 - we want to go. That's all I can tell you is we'll be as transparent and treat you just like you're one 01:32:06.170 --> 01:32:13.310 - of us. That would be my role. That was a long answer to what you asked. I appreciate your answer. 01:32:13.826 --> 01:32:20.114 - I'm still not clear on how you cover your costs by delivering $150,000 worth of pre-development services 01:32:20.114 --> 01:32:26.402 - for $20,000. It's going to come to us out of the back end, out of that 2% on the back end of 30 million. 01:32:26.402 --> 01:32:32.451 - And then the counterpart question is, as you noted, that your terms and conditions would include the 01:32:32.451 --> 01:32:38.979 - ability for the city, if any reason was needed, to terminate the contract. What are the terms of termination 01:32:38.979 --> 01:32:43.710 - then? The terms, you would only owe us for whatever we provided to that point. 01:32:46.498 --> 01:32:53.135 - How many hours per week do you expect based on what you know now, which as you noted is fairly nominal 01:32:53.135 --> 01:32:59.643 - at this point, but how many hours maybe total would you expect for ownership services? Well, once we 01:32:59.643 --> 01:33:06.731 - get to construction, that's a 40 hour week job for more than one person. Right, I'm talking pre-construction, 01:33:06.731 --> 01:33:13.239 - huh? Pre-construction is going to vary. So right now, for example, I have committed to Anna, as long 01:33:13.239 --> 01:33:14.334 - as you all don't 01:33:14.530 --> 01:33:20.869 - shut us down for some reason, whether my contract's in place or not. I've committed to spend a day doing 01:33:20.869 --> 01:33:26.967 - interviews with architectural firms and help be sure we ask the right questions and we get the right 01:33:26.967 --> 01:33:33.005 - firm pinned down for the city. Once we get the architect in place, the architect will start driving 01:33:33.005 --> 01:33:39.103 - that with us providing oversight. I would expect that there would be, one, a meeting every two weeks 01:33:39.103 --> 01:33:42.846 - initially that I would actually be in town for. There will be 01:33:42.946 --> 01:33:49.257 - phone calls and zoom stuff and all in between that, but the architect will start driving that. Once 01:33:49.257 --> 01:33:55.695 - we get down to the schematic phase, which schematic phase means we've got a really rough blueprint of 01:33:55.695 --> 01:34:02.006 - what we want to do. We usually have a floor plan, a site plan, maybe a rendering that puts us where 01:34:02.006 --> 01:34:08.633 - we want. Garmong then will have a team of about two highly skilled estimators that will take three weeks 01:34:08.633 --> 01:34:10.526 - going through that to get you 01:34:11.490 --> 01:34:16.152 - in order of magnitude of what we're talking about to deliver what we're talking about today. And then 01:34:16.152 --> 01:34:20.997 - we have to either say, all right, we're perfect, or we can add something else, which very rarely happens, 01:34:20.997 --> 01:34:25.659 - or no, we need to take something out of the budget to get this back to where we are. Can we take some 01:34:25.659 --> 01:34:30.230 - scope out and yet maintain the integrity of the project where it delivers what you want to deliver? 01:34:30.230 --> 01:34:35.167 - You've been through that a million times. And so that would be the next phase. Once you go to the schematic 01:34:35.167 --> 01:34:39.326 - phase, then the architect goes to what we call seedings, which is a construction document. 01:34:40.450 --> 01:34:45.791 - He starts that phase. We're more involved as we go to CDs because we're looking at all how that's going 01:34:45.791 --> 01:34:50.978 - to fit together. How's it going to get constructed? How's it going to get built? What kind of safety 01:34:50.978 --> 01:34:56.217 - requirements are going to have to be provided in the project? What are logistics of getting materials 01:34:56.217 --> 01:35:01.404 - delivered? What outstreet are we going to have shut down? All that starts to happen in the CD phase. 01:35:01.404 --> 01:35:06.848 - So we'll have, at that point, a project manager sitting with me, besides me, doing that work. And they'll 01:35:06.848 --> 01:35:08.286 - be, at that point, probably 01:35:08.898 --> 01:35:14.461 - 8, 10 hours, 15 hours a week. And then we get to what we call DDs, and that's when CDs are done. DDs 01:35:14.461 --> 01:35:20.189 - are design, I'm sorry, I got it backwards. DDs and then CDs. CDs are construction documents, and that's 01:35:20.189 --> 01:35:25.972 - when we get all the final plans prepared to go to bid. And what we're really looking at, as your partner 01:35:25.972 --> 01:35:31.534 - in that, we're looking as a constructor at those set of documents to try to take out every potential 01:35:31.534 --> 01:35:37.152 - loophole for a contractor to bid that and say it wasn't in the plans. That's where your change orders 01:35:37.152 --> 01:35:37.758 - come from. 01:35:38.338 --> 01:35:43.518 - We're doing everything we can to alleviate change order risk by reviewing those just as if we're going 01:35:43.518 --> 01:35:48.596 - to bid that project. And we'll have more people involved in that time. So I don't know how to answer 01:35:48.596 --> 01:35:53.675 - exactly how many hours are going to be involved, but it's in the hundreds by the time we get through 01:35:53.675 --> 01:35:58.855 - pre-con. My question was really about the pre-development because it's the flat rate, right? The other 01:35:58.855 --> 01:36:04.085 - is actually at least tied to construction costs. I will tell you that that flat rate is a whipping boy. 01:36:04.085 --> 01:36:08.158 - If I was going to set that flat rate, I told Dana initially it was a lot higher. 01:36:08.898 --> 01:36:15.343 - But our company looks at this and says, hey, we have tried to work for the city of Bloomington for years. 01:36:15.343 --> 01:36:21.667 - We work for IU, we work for the community school corporation, we work for everybody else, but we really 01:36:21.667 --> 01:36:27.930 - haven't done much for Bloomington. We're willing to discount this to have a chance to show Bloomington 01:36:27.930 --> 01:36:34.254 - how good we really are. That's really your answer. Thank you for your help with that question. Do other 01:36:34.254 --> 01:36:37.598 - members of the commission have questions you'd like to 01:36:37.922 --> 01:36:50.876 - Yeah, I'd like to segue on to what you were asking. So take me from the construction docs to where we're 01:36:50.876 --> 01:37:03.460 - actually starting to bid the job. I know you're not the GC, so who is going to oversee that function? 01:37:03.460 --> 01:37:07.038 - Of GC? Well, who is going to 01:37:08.034 --> 01:37:13.948 - We will have we will have a full-time project manager and a full-time job site superintendent staff 01:37:13.948 --> 01:37:20.157 - on the job all day every day once construction starts All right, but in the prior to that in the bidding 01:37:20.157 --> 01:37:26.307 - process will have HVAC and plumbers and you know, we put all this goes on We put all that together with 01:37:26.307 --> 01:37:32.339 - the design firm and Garmon will actually write the bidding documents Darman will actually develop the 01:37:32.339 --> 01:37:35.710 - entire bidding book bidding documents. We do that all in 01:37:36.162 --> 01:37:43.082 - So the RDC slash city is not doing that legal work? No, we'll have the entire bidding package put together. 01:37:43.082 --> 01:37:49.937 - And then the other thing is, of course, we'll review it with your bond council and all the people involved 01:37:49.937 --> 01:37:56.985 - to be sure that all the documents tie together. Because the bond people want to be sure that the construction 01:37:56.985 --> 01:38:01.406 - documents and contracts are all set up right. So we review all that. 01:38:05.218 --> 01:38:14.364 - So the contracts are held by the city. Correct. And who in the city specifically is responsible for 01:38:14.364 --> 01:38:23.601 - that? It would be the, of course, with the RDC, because RDC is the owner of the property. But as far 01:38:23.601 --> 01:38:33.021 - as managing the legalities of the contract, it would be the legal department. And then both ANAs would 01:38:33.021 --> 01:38:34.942 - be heavily involved. 01:38:35.106 --> 01:38:42.356 - and as a project manager and it co enhances as the executive director. The other thing is we will provide 01:38:42.356 --> 01:38:49.332 - you, I could have brought you in tonight, I should have, but we will provide you a very comprehensive 01:38:49.332 --> 01:38:56.377 - monthly report of exactly where we are. It'll have photos, budgets, scopes, schedules, updates, you'll 01:38:56.377 --> 01:39:01.438 - get that once a month as an RDC and we're glad to provide that in person. 01:39:02.626 --> 01:39:10.094 - or not, depending on what you want with your meetings. It doesn't take very long, but we will provide 01:39:10.094 --> 01:39:17.855 - that every month. It's a turn of key, John, as far as. Well, I'm actually more concerned about the volume 01:39:17.855 --> 01:39:24.956 - of work and the scope of work for the city and the city staff, and whether they're A, qualified, 01:39:24.956 --> 01:39:26.494 - and B, have the time 01:39:26.850 --> 01:39:32.931 - That's a great question, but they really shouldn't have much because we will actually prepare the contracts 01:39:32.931 --> 01:39:38.674 - for their review. We will prepare all the pay apps on your behalf. We'll review all the invoices that 01:39:38.674 --> 01:39:44.529 - come in from the contracts. We will prepare all the pay apps. We'll consult with the architect, be sure 01:39:44.529 --> 01:39:50.159 - they're in agreement. Mutually together, we'll sign off on the pay apps. So really all the city has 01:39:50.159 --> 01:39:52.862 - to do is process a check and keep the electric. 01:39:56.578 --> 01:40:03.615 - That's all part of our function. When it says construction manager, we are literally responsible for 01:40:03.615 --> 01:40:10.581 - all those aspects. So really, the only difference between an A and a C in at least this scenario as 01:40:10.581 --> 01:40:17.688 - you presented is who? There's two differences. The two differences is, one, the contracts are held by 01:40:17.688 --> 01:40:25.630 - the city instead of the CM. The second difference, as you'll understand, there is not a guaranteed maximum price. 01:40:26.274 --> 01:40:33.906 - But I would like to also, since I do so much of both, I would like to also say that the guaranteed maximum 01:40:33.906 --> 01:40:41.610 - price isn't guaranteed if you change the scope. If you change the scope on a CMC and you want an additional 01:40:41.610 --> 01:40:49.385 - room, different building, price goes up, right? So the guaranteed maximum price thing to me is way oversold. 01:40:49.385 --> 01:40:53.950 - Should be a project without change orders. You understand that? 01:40:57.122 --> 01:41:04.067 - So from my perspective, the one thing that I really ask for out of my consideration is not asking you 01:41:04.067 --> 01:41:10.876 - or baiting you into signing a contract. But if you really decide you want me to help you with these 01:41:10.876 --> 01:41:18.026 - services, which I'm really looking forward to doing, I'm going to tell you one more thing because you'll 01:41:18.026 --> 01:41:25.380 - probably hear it anyway. Anna's heard it. Dana's heard it. I shared it with Randy. 1229 is my last official 01:41:25.380 --> 01:41:26.878 - full-time date going. 01:41:28.738 --> 01:41:35.243 - But I have agreed, because I love Dana and we work together so much, I've agreed with Grandma that I'm 01:41:35.243 --> 01:41:41.684 - going to retain two clients, if you so choose. Hendricks County has asked me to stay in place to 2031 01:41:41.684 --> 01:41:48.189 - because they just gave me $160 million worth of work, continued upon me staying and running it. So I'm 01:41:48.189 --> 01:41:54.504 - going to stay in that capacity for Hendricks, and I've also agreed to stay in capacity and run your 01:41:54.504 --> 01:41:57.662 - project through completion, but you would be only 01:41:57.762 --> 01:42:04.666 - One of two clients I have after the first year. Well, you'll have a ton of time. Yeah, I just I'm type 01:42:04.666 --> 01:42:11.503 - A and I'm worried anyway about not knowing what I'm going to do after I retire, but I'm 71 years old. 01:42:11.503 --> 01:42:18.340 - I've enjoyed this. Eat and breathe it. I've got great clients and great great company. I'm really not 01:42:18.340 --> 01:42:25.245 - anxious to just totally walk out, but I think I gotta start to think in those terms. But but you would 01:42:25.245 --> 01:42:25.982 - be my sole 01:42:26.530 --> 01:42:32.237 - one of the two sole focuses if you decide to do this. But you might as well know that up front because 01:42:32.237 --> 01:42:38.054 - the other thing is I will have a tremendous amount of talent behind me. That's what gives me the comfort 01:42:38.054 --> 01:42:43.650 - to do this. I'll have our operating, I have two men in their 40s that are both Rose-Hulman engineers 01:42:43.650 --> 01:42:49.302 - and licensed engineers that will be involved with me in this project. I'll have a full team of people 01:42:49.302 --> 01:42:55.230 - behind me to help handle this. So I think we can do a good job for you if you decide you want us to do it. 01:42:59.682 --> 01:43:06.816 - Any other questions from commissioners? Question regards to when we look at our overall cost basis, 01:43:06.816 --> 01:43:14.165 - we know what our dollar amount is that we have from an affordability standpoint. 30, 35 millions would 01:43:14.165 --> 01:43:21.513 - have been told. Keep going down. I like your enthusiasm. Yeah, like your enthusiasm. Yeah, yeah. Let's 01:43:21.513 --> 01:43:27.934 - talk 30 plus, including soft. With that, based upon utilization of CMC or CMA, when those 01:43:28.354 --> 01:43:34.183 - Dollars come in based on your estimate, but whatever function. Where are you at if it goes too high? 01:43:34.183 --> 01:43:40.359 - And we either have to cut scope, as you know it, or figure some alternative to drive it down. Alternative, 01:43:40.359 --> 01:43:46.130 - dollar-wise. And when we look at things, not from a GMP standpoint, but when we do it. Well, let me 01:43:46.130 --> 01:43:51.902 - give you some examples. Since you asked a question, open the door. I'm already thinking, all right? 01:43:53.186 --> 01:43:59.420 - Again, I talked about some of the complexities of working in this beautiful city because it is what 01:43:59.420 --> 01:44:05.654 - it is because of what you do, right? But for example, there's discussion of tier four construction. 01:44:05.654 --> 01:44:12.138 - If you don't know what tier four is, that's virtually a bomb shelter. I've built several 911 facilities 01:44:12.138 --> 01:44:18.496 - and EMS facilities. None of them are tier four. I don't know where tier four came from. But to get to 01:44:18.496 --> 01:44:20.990 - tier four is a pretty significant cost. 01:44:21.570 --> 01:44:28.236 - I think we could, what I call, harden it to where there's no way anybody could possibly get hurt in 01:44:28.236 --> 01:44:35.436 - a storm. Structural steel, concrete, all kinds of things. But it may not be a full tier four authorization. 01:44:35.436 --> 01:44:42.302 - We could probably save considerably money that way. There's also in your statutes sustainability laws. 01:44:42.302 --> 01:44:49.502 - Does sustainability mean we have to go for full certification and leave? Or can we just put the sustainable 01:44:49.954 --> 01:44:56.115 - Can we use recycled materials? Can we do a bicycle rack? Can we do other things? But like, for example, 01:44:56.115 --> 01:45:02.098 - in the study, it mentions a green roof. Does anybody have any idea what a green roof costs? And then 01:45:02.098 --> 01:45:08.555 - to maintain it. If I have the flexibility and we have the full continuity and we can have the open dialogue, 01:45:08.555 --> 01:45:14.775 - OK, here's what this costs. Here's what the alternative costs. Those are the kind of discussions, Randy, 01:45:14.775 --> 01:45:19.870 - that you and I built with our whole career that we have to have to control that cost. 01:45:22.370 --> 01:45:27.666 - So that's the only answer I have for you right now. I don't know if it's a good one or not. It's a matter 01:45:27.666 --> 01:45:32.712 - of where we go to from a time frame standpoint. Right. Just say go, no go, and what the overall cost 01:45:32.712 --> 01:45:37.807 - is accordingly. That's right. Because if cost exceeds that, we've got a significant multiple thousand 01:45:37.807 --> 01:45:42.853 - square foot building here. And our affordability may go down. Next question, last question I have in 01:45:42.853 --> 01:45:48.099 - regards to it. When you look at the number of contracts that the city would have to have on this, what's 01:45:48.099 --> 01:45:51.646 - the total number you identify in regards to it? In my mind, it's five. 01:45:53.570 --> 01:46:01.397 - Usually it's mechanical, electrical, a general trades package, site package. So five to six max probably. 01:46:01.397 --> 01:46:09.149 - Now, it might vary. You might say that I'm not totally accurate in that because maybe we want a security 01:46:09.149 --> 01:46:16.755 - controls company. Maybe we want an IT company to come in. So those little minor, what I call ancillary 01:46:16.755 --> 01:46:23.326 - contract, but as far as prime major contracts, I'd say five. All at the same time, yeah. 01:46:23.522 --> 01:46:33.782 - accelerate projects. Yeah, we will have a very accurate bidding process that will get us a project number 01:46:33.782 --> 01:46:42.590 - that we all can live with. And it's just a matter of what we can afford. That's right. OK. 01:46:42.590 --> 01:46:50.430 - Anything else? Any other questions from commissioners? Not like competing firms. 01:46:51.234 --> 01:46:59.410 - distinguish themselves. What would they come in here and say to us? For this role? I'd say they'd probably 01:46:59.410 --> 01:47:07.509 - say much of the same thing. That's a hard question, because anything I sound is arrogant or self-serving. 01:47:07.509 --> 01:47:15.379 - But I don't think there's very many people that do exactly what I do. And that's why you don't see too 01:47:15.379 --> 01:47:18.206 - much CMA. You see very little of it. 01:47:18.562 --> 01:47:24.419 - It's almost non-existent. Almost non-existent. For obvious reasons, the GMP and the state law has changed. 01:47:24.419 --> 01:47:29.893 - But it's all about trust and transparency. And I will share this with you because I don't know that 01:47:29.893 --> 01:47:35.366 - it's ever been done, but I consider this a real tribute. When we started the highway garage project 01:47:35.366 --> 01:47:40.347 - a year and a half ago at Hendricks County, the commissioners passed a resolution that gave 01:47:40.347 --> 01:47:45.985 - me an authorization to spend $50,000 on their behalf for any change order without coming back to them. 01:47:45.985 --> 01:47:47.518 - Now why would they do that? 01:47:48.258 --> 01:47:54.130 - They only meet every two weeks. If I have to shut a project down for two weeks to get a change order 01:47:54.130 --> 01:47:59.944 - authorized, what's that cost? And they trusted me enough to give me that resolution as long as, and 01:47:59.944 --> 01:48:06.281 - I asked them for this, I put a check and balance in that either the county engineer or the county facilities 01:48:06.281 --> 01:48:12.212 - manager had to sign with them. I'm not gonna sign that on my own and put myself out there, right? But 01:48:12.212 --> 01:48:18.142 - it's another example of how we look at how do we control the project. So I think most companies will, 01:48:18.306 --> 01:48:23.647 - talk about themselves as CMs to answer your question because they're constructors, right? But I don't 01:48:23.647 --> 01:48:29.093 - think they understand what it takes to sit at the table and make these hard decisions with you and have 01:48:29.093 --> 01:48:34.590 - these discussions and be so aware of everything that's going on in the project. And again, there's going 01:48:34.590 --> 01:48:40.088 - to be mistakes. But what I say about contractors, and I don't know if I'm really answering the question, 01:48:40.088 --> 01:48:45.534 - but what I say about contractors is when there is a problem, do they become part of the problem or part 01:48:45.534 --> 01:48:47.838 - of the solution? That's the defining thing. 01:48:48.514 --> 01:48:55.468 - And I guarantee you that we'll be part of the solution. Whether it's the solution we like or not, we'll 01:48:55.468 --> 01:49:02.221 - be part of it. But there aren't too many people in Indiana that are really good CMs. There are a lot 01:49:02.221 --> 01:49:09.174 - of CMAs. There are a lot of really good CMCs. You and I can list 10 of them. I don't know if I answered 01:49:09.174 --> 01:49:15.860 - yours. I'm sorry. I just don't know how to answer that one. You gave me some things to think about, 01:49:15.860 --> 01:49:18.334 - and that was the goal. So thank you. 01:49:18.466 --> 01:49:23.991 - If Garmong had a choice and just walked in, would you prefer CMC, CMA, or a contract? If you could just 01:49:23.991 --> 01:49:29.304 - hand us a contract, we'd take CMC all day. And why would we take CMC? That's the question. We could 01:49:29.304 --> 01:49:34.883 - make a lot more money. Because we're going to control the budget. We're going to control the subs. We're 01:49:34.883 --> 01:49:40.408 - going to control the markups to our subs. We're going to control every aspect of the finances. You make 01:49:40.408 --> 01:49:45.827 - more money as a CMC. And we can self-perform. So our own forces can come in and self-perform. We make 01:49:45.827 --> 01:49:47.102 - money off our own soul. 01:49:47.202 --> 01:49:54.429 - So CMC is where we would make the most money. But CMA is where I'm going to be 100% focused on your 01:49:54.429 --> 01:50:01.872 - needs. And if we're really truthful about what this project is right now, this would be very difficult 01:50:01.872 --> 01:50:09.460 - to do CMC with because we don't have enough scope. We've got to define ahead of time, which is why we're 01:50:09.460 --> 01:50:14.302 - out for the RFP with the architect. Yeah, but the architect itself 01:50:14.530 --> 01:50:19.609 - Without a CM sitting with it, in my view, is very dangerous. Because you've seen it a million times. 01:50:19.609 --> 01:50:24.788 - We saw that back to my interest count exam. They got to $32 million in a highway garage. They got only 01:50:24.788 --> 01:50:29.817 - $419 million. Why don't you just design a $19 million to begin with? If that's your budget, control 01:50:29.817 --> 01:50:34.896 - it from the beginning. In your case, you're telling me I got $30 million max. We're going to have to 01:50:34.896 --> 01:50:40.176 - figure out, and we'll figure that out really quick, can we do anything for $30 million? And if we can't, 01:50:40.176 --> 01:50:44.350 - then we've got to figure out what we're going to do then. I will tell you, I just. 01:50:44.514 --> 01:50:50.837 - took one down, it would take a million dollars or more to take this building down. Am I close? 01:50:50.837 --> 01:50:57.759 - Now we know. No. They want more? No. The last bid that we had was while there was other demolition work 01:50:57.759 --> 01:51:04.548 - being done, and it was 250. Yeah, well, I just took one down very similar to this Henry's County, and 01:51:04.548 --> 01:51:11.203 - it was 750. So but anyway, my point to you is you're going to spend a half million to take it down. 01:51:11.203 --> 01:51:14.398 - Wouldn't use that half million in the building, 01:51:15.202 --> 01:51:22.009 - and make everything work, that's good money spent. And I'm not afraid of the project. I think it's exciting. 01:51:22.009 --> 01:51:28.253 - And what a tribute it would be to the community if we could put a police station right next to your 01:51:28.253 --> 01:51:34.560 - beautiful new neighborhood. I think it's fun to work on. But it's not, we're going to have to figure 01:51:34.560 --> 01:51:40.992 - it out pretty quick what the economics are. That's the problem. We have low in support. Right. We have 01:51:40.992 --> 01:51:42.366 - the structural. Yeah. 01:51:42.498 --> 01:51:49.529 - One thing that I did not hear Dan speak about that he shared with us was his experience in public safety 01:51:49.529 --> 01:51:56.493 - buildings. Would you mind sharing that with the RDC? I think maybe you didn't get maybe I did copy you. 01:51:56.493 --> 01:52:03.256 - I think I copy you and then I sent them a list of all the police stations. I know that list has gone 01:52:03.256 --> 01:52:10.220 - out. I know you got it. I know the chief got it. There's there's probably 1415 police stations we built 01:52:10.220 --> 01:52:11.358 - in recent times. 01:52:11.970 --> 01:52:18.752 - And some of those were renovations. The White County, we just did the community corrections facility 01:52:18.752 --> 01:52:25.601 - up there in a Bayer Pharmaceutical Office building that was a major gut in rehab on a 1950s building. 01:52:25.601 --> 01:52:32.315 - Of the 32 jails built in Indiana in the last 10 years since the Level 6 legislation came out of the 01:52:32.315 --> 01:52:39.232 - legislature, we built 28 of those 32. And the only reason I mention jails is because most of them have 01:52:39.232 --> 01:52:41.246 - a Sheriff's Office component. 01:52:42.530 --> 01:52:50.444 - Sheriff's Office component for a lot of times to duplicate what we would do in a police department. 01:52:50.444 --> 01:52:58.438 - How many of these are new? 28 are new construction versus rehab? On the jails, I'd say 10% or 10 out 01:52:58.438 --> 01:53:06.352 - of 28 are new and the rest were rehabs and additions. I feel like I've taken too much of your time, 01:53:06.352 --> 01:53:10.942 - but I am really humbled by how much time you've given me. 01:53:13.058 --> 01:53:20.224 - Any other questions? Dana or Anna, what do you need from us this evening? Or is this an opportunity 01:53:20.224 --> 01:53:27.462 - for us to just listen? I'm sorry? Is this an opportunity for us to just listen and ask questions, or 01:53:27.462 --> 01:53:34.844 - do you need something from us? Not at this time. Yeah. I don't have anything in front of you. This was 01:53:34.844 --> 01:53:41.150 - just to introduce you to this type of delivery system, and to introduce you to Garmont, 01:53:41.282 --> 01:53:48.359 - for you to take it under consideration, not asking you for anything tonight. We have given Dana an agreement. 01:53:48.359 --> 01:53:54.987 - So you know, and for me, if I'm really going to do a good job for you, the only thing I request is you 01:53:54.987 --> 01:54:01.485 - get me on board. It's not going to cost anything, all right, $20,000. Get me on board as fast as you 01:54:01.485 --> 01:54:08.241 - can so when we hire that architect, I'm sitting right with him day one. That's what I really appreciate. 01:54:08.241 --> 01:54:10.750 - Based on what you said, last question. 01:54:11.682 --> 01:54:19.587 - Can we still get a GMP? No, not under this delivery system. Not under this delivery system. And just 01:54:19.587 --> 01:54:27.571 - for reference, those A&E bids are due back on Friday, I believe it is, November 6th. Yeah. So I think 01:54:27.571 --> 01:54:35.554 - Anne and I discussed and she set some target dates. And so I think our goal would be for the December 01:54:35.554 --> 01:54:40.094 - meeting to have that decision in front of their proposal. 01:54:40.866 --> 01:54:46.576 - I think maybe staff needs to discuss, but my personal preferred would be the next RDC meeting. It's 01:54:46.576 --> 01:54:52.630 - November 16th. 16th. And we've said a couple of days where we can make that happen. All right. Appreciate 01:54:52.630 --> 01:54:58.397 - it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dave. Are you going to stay around for any reason, or 01:54:58.397 --> 01:55:04.507 - may I leave? You may leave. All right. We've got new business to start with. I've seen enough RDC business 01:55:04.507 --> 01:55:10.846 - in my career. I think I can stay for the rest of it. Thank you for what you do. Thank you, Dave. Thanks, Dave. 01:55:12.514 --> 01:55:19.967 - Okay. I do just want to point out that I believe that the agenda was amended. Number six was added and 01:55:19.967 --> 01:55:27.203 - A under seven are the same thing. So please feel free to skip A. Thank you. Seven A. I'm just going 01:55:27.203 --> 01:55:34.656 - to ask because we've been in meeting for almost two hours now. We are starting a new business of which 01:55:34.656 --> 01:55:42.398 - we've got, you know, almost a dozen items. I'm just going to ask our DC commissioners or staff if you need 01:55:42.530 --> 01:55:50.310 - a five minute break, I'm happy to do that. I just wanted to open that possibility if anybody would like 01:55:50.310 --> 01:55:58.315 - to request it. I would like to take that opportunity. Okay, so it is now 6.56. Is five minutes sufficient? 01:55:58.315 --> 01:56:05.871 - Do you need more? Or would you think more? I'm hopeful for five minutes. Okay, well, that's our goal 01:56:05.871 --> 01:56:07.966 - is five minutes. Thank you. 01:56:08.354 --> 01:56:15.197 - Awesome. Okay. Reconvening the RDC meeting for new business. Resolution 2682, determination of annual 01:56:15.197 --> 01:56:22.309 - spending plan for calendar year 2027. Who would like to speak to that? Great. Thank you very much. Again, 01:56:22.309 --> 01:56:29.219 - I'm going to be introducing Justin Chang from Reedy. But this is the second of our annual requirements 01:56:29.219 --> 01:56:35.928 - that we're reporting that we're going to be addressing tonight. And this one you will actually vote 01:56:35.928 --> 01:56:38.142 - on. So I'm going to go ahead and 01:56:38.242 --> 01:56:47.365 - share the detail of the spreadsheet that was provided in the packet. All right, so we're going to go 01:56:47.365 --> 01:56:56.579 - ahead, Justin. Yeah, so this is similar spending plan that we completed last year. This is the second 01:56:56.579 --> 01:57:00.734 - one. We have to do new reporting requirement. 01:57:01.474 --> 01:57:10.108 - Just really just here to answer any questions that you guys may have, but to preface these numbers before 01:57:10.108 --> 01:57:18.905 - you guys go into the questions, is that we try to put as much in there as possible to avoid the possibility 01:57:18.905 --> 01:57:27.050 - of having to come back and do another test fitting plan. Because why pay us twice when you can only 01:57:27.050 --> 01:57:30.878 - pay us once, right? We're here now, why today? 01:57:31.010 --> 01:57:37.791 - And just for for just letting you guys know the process is if we do overspend in any of these areas 01:57:37.791 --> 01:57:44.979 - so the big ones are the bolder ones like debt payments capital expenditures we have professional services 01:57:44.979 --> 01:57:51.827 - even if the total spending next year is under the total for all these categories if any one of those 01:57:51.827 --> 01:57:59.422 - categories go over then we have to redo one of these spending plans to make an amendment next year so we try to 01:57:59.810 --> 01:58:06.061 - We build a buffer in there based on the spending that we know to make sure we don't have to come back 01:58:06.061 --> 01:58:12.680 - and redo this spending plan amendment. But like I mentioned, this is really for you to ask me any questions 01:58:12.680 --> 01:58:15.070 - for why we put those numbers up there. 01:58:16.994 --> 01:58:25.317 - And we can scroll through these if you all want to see them or ask particular questions. But as you 01:58:25.317 --> 01:58:34.138 - can see, the majority of the big expenses are listed under debt payments. But then there's also a section 01:58:34.138 --> 01:58:42.711 - for capital expenditures. And then another section for finance proceeds expenditures. OK. So why don't 01:58:42.711 --> 01:58:45.790 - you drill down on that a little bit. 01:58:47.362 --> 01:58:55.861 - Why don't you tell me what finance proceeds expenditures really are? I see the projects. But the proceeds 01:58:55.861 --> 01:59:04.441 - are from elsewhere. So essentially, it's a little confusing the way the DLJF has this worded. Essentially, 01:59:04.441 --> 01:59:12.699 - it's when we issue a bond and we use that bond to spend money from that bond. Let's say we issue a $35 01:59:12.699 --> 01:59:13.822 - million bond. 01:59:13.986 --> 01:59:20.438 - that entire 35 million needs to go under finance proceeds expenditures. So let's take that police station 01:59:20.438 --> 01:59:26.646 - that we were discussing earlier. Let's say we do go for 35, and there's soft costs on top of that. So 01:59:26.646 --> 01:59:32.793 - we build a buffer for all those potential expenditures. Not saying this doesn't obligate us to spend 01:59:32.793 --> 01:59:39.123 - $40.2 million on the police station. It's just we go further down next year. Once we issue those bonds, 01:59:39.123 --> 01:59:40.158 - if there are any 01:59:40.546 --> 01:59:46.898 - Expenditures that we we didn't we didn't first foresee where do you build that buffer in there? and 01:59:46.898 --> 01:59:53.377 - So it's your contingency. Yes, correct. Correct. Well, well the reason I asked for the explanation is 01:59:53.377 --> 01:59:59.792 - if you look at the bottom spending and it's a hundred and fifty three million you look at it and say 01:59:59.792 --> 02:00:06.462 - well You don't have a hundred fifty three million but L is using bond money. It's not really defined and 02:00:06.626 --> 02:00:15.462 - Correct. It's money that the RDC borrows, essentially. Yes. It's not the payment. The payments are under 02:00:15.462 --> 02:00:23.878 - A, Section A. But yeah, L is the proceeds of the bond. Yeah, I don't know why they don't do it like 02:00:23.878 --> 02:00:32.293 - a real financial statement. This is one of those report requirements that came out. Yeah, I realize 02:00:32.293 --> 02:00:35.070 - it's not you. It's just bizarre. 02:00:35.202 --> 02:00:42.969 - Is there a section on here for Showers West operations? Showers West is paid for by 2519, is that correct? 02:00:42.969 --> 02:00:50.301 - So that fund does not collect TIF revenue, so this is specifically for TIF revenue collection funds. 02:00:50.301 --> 02:00:57.777 - No, I'm looking at that, but I'm seeing, for example, capital operating for the police station. So I'm 02:00:57.777 --> 02:01:03.294 - just trying to clarify, there's operational expenses in here for the police 02:01:03.586 --> 02:01:10.524 - I'm assuming that 714, is that? No, so what that was is if the RDC decides to, let's say, a $30 million 02:01:10.524 --> 02:01:17.529 - project for the police station, if we decide to cash fund $5 million of that, maybe to reduce the annual 02:01:17.529 --> 02:01:24.267 - debt payment, this allows us to do that. But that's why the numbers are so high, because we have to, 02:01:24.267 --> 02:01:29.470 - like I said, if one category goes above, we have to reduce this entire thing. 02:01:29.570 --> 02:01:35.714 - Duplicates essentially if we don't bond then we can use cash if we use cash them if we don't want to 02:01:35.714 --> 02:01:41.797 - use cash Then we can still bond sure. No, I understand that. I'm just trying to again clarify Where 02:01:41.797 --> 02:01:48.062 - the distinction is in terms of allocating the funds for operations from TIF funds compared to? Showers 02:01:48.062 --> 02:01:54.814 - West being from non TIF funds. None of the showers West is not on here. I understand that but I'm asking why I 02:01:55.394 --> 02:02:02.963 - why is there that distinction why is there money in here for the police station for the operations being 02:02:02.963 --> 02:02:10.172 - from tiff funds while they're not operations the operations for showers west is not from tiff funds 02:02:10.172 --> 02:02:17.453 - indiana code for the indiana code section it uh... the particular section says that expenditures can 02:02:17.453 --> 02:02:25.310 - be for capital uh... and or operations police fire and so that is so it's a public safety fair it's matching 02:02:25.474 --> 02:02:34.167 - the language that's in the statute, it's not saying you're going to spend it on operations. It's just 02:02:34.167 --> 02:02:43.201 - saying, it's saying in the category that matches the category of expenditures you can have in the statute 02:02:43.201 --> 02:02:51.809 - is matched together. So it's not saying you're using it for operations. But that... But it is. It is 02:02:51.809 --> 02:02:54.110 - being used for operations. 02:02:54.306 --> 02:03:03.062 - I see the difference is. We're not going to be operating the police station once it's not open right 02:03:03.062 --> 02:03:11.732 - and once it's operating. Well, but there's that maybe hours before transfer of ownership right that 02:03:11.732 --> 02:03:13.726 - there may be that and. 02:03:14.658 --> 02:03:20.116 - we're trying to transfer ownership. Anyway, just again, we're in a position now with Showers West where 02:03:20.116 --> 02:03:25.521 - we're trying to transfer ownership. We haven't done that yet. We are paying for operational costs, and 02:03:25.521 --> 02:03:30.874 - I'm just trying to clarify the difference, because that was also purchased with a public safety bond. 02:03:30.874 --> 02:03:36.122 - So I'm just trying to understand the differences in terms of how that works for those two different 02:03:36.122 --> 02:03:40.478 - buildings, which technically have similar sources of financing and outcomes. Yeah. 02:03:44.418 --> 02:03:57.197 - I guess, technically, you could say that part of the funding at Shower's West for the fire part would 02:03:57.197 --> 02:04:10.101 - be under the statute for that RDC could pay for. I will also say that there was a significant progress 02:04:10.101 --> 02:04:14.110 - being made to get Shower's West 02:04:14.274 --> 02:04:25.310 - And it's my understanding that on the December 7th meeting that there will be a presentation on what 02:04:25.310 --> 02:04:37.438 - that transition would look like. So we're inching towards that, that there has been significant progress made. 02:04:39.330 --> 02:04:46.948 - And I do just wanted to clarify one thing on the financing for the two projects are quite different. 02:04:46.948 --> 02:04:54.944 - The proposed financing for the police station would be a TIF revenue bond while the Showers West purchase 02:04:54.944 --> 02:05:02.713 - was actually not out of the TIF. It was out of the general revenue bond. Okay, thank you. I appreciate 02:05:02.713 --> 02:05:07.390 - that clarification. Other questions from commissioners on the 02:05:07.714 --> 02:05:15.640 - 2027 TIF spending plan before we have a motion. When we look at the estimated sum of debt, police station 02:05:15.640 --> 02:05:23.490 - debt, hotel bonds, and we're looking at our overall, you've got a contingency built in. Your contingency 02:05:23.490 --> 02:05:31.341 - is a percentage base or what was it based on? It's 15% is what we have in there. We've got a 15% overall 02:05:31.341 --> 02:05:35.902 - what our projected costs are at the present moment. Correct. 02:05:36.226 --> 02:05:44.035 - from a revenue standpoint where we can justify on our bonds and the rest, we can cover the entire amount. 02:05:44.035 --> 02:05:51.475 - It can go under. I'm sorry? It can be lower, but this will be the maximum that is allowable based on 02:05:51.475 --> 02:05:59.137 - what you're seeing from an expenditure standpoint and a revenue standpoint. We could actually go higher 02:05:59.137 --> 02:06:03.262 - on the annual debt payments. This is just based off our 02:06:03.746 --> 02:06:11.927 - Project estimates. Project estimates. Which brings me to the question I'm looking at in regards to Hopewell. 02:06:11.927 --> 02:06:19.433 - At the present moment, Jeff, how much have we got in Hopewell? I'm just asking. What do you mean in 02:06:19.433 --> 02:06:27.089 - Hopewell? How much have we spent on Hopewell so far? Do we have an idea? No, I don't have that right. 02:06:27.089 --> 02:06:33.694 - And is that amount in that $44 million? Or is this $44 million on top of what we spent? 02:06:34.434 --> 02:06:40.818 - That would be totally new that is not that this would be I understand. I'm just I understand I just 02:06:40.818 --> 02:06:47.202 - want to get this would be a potential Hopewell bond for future infrastructure development Including 02:06:47.202 --> 02:06:53.649 - sections of Hopewell other than Hopewell South. Okay, the entire Hopewell project east West it could 02:06:53.649 --> 02:07:00.097 - be you haven't made that to sell we haven't made that this is kind of a budget figure to you know to 02:07:00.097 --> 02:07:01.310 - make sure that the 02:07:01.602 --> 02:07:08.009 - I remember when we talked about just the overall TIF capacity, we want to make sure that any decisions 02:07:08.009 --> 02:07:14.415 - that you make on TIF bonding kind of take into account potential future plans as well as the... Right. 02:07:14.415 --> 02:07:20.760 - Because at the present moment, is there any bonding on Hopewell? No. That's what I wanted to clarify. 02:07:20.760 --> 02:07:27.229 - We've got expenditures out and we're potentially looking at another $44 million with a 15% contingency. 02:07:27.229 --> 02:07:28.286 - Okay. Thank you. 02:07:31.202 --> 02:07:38.710 - Any other questions regarding resolution 2682, the determination of annual spending plan for calendar 02:07:38.710 --> 02:07:46.733 - year 2027? One last question. Is there, when we're looking at our general, we've got our potential estimated 02:07:46.733 --> 02:07:54.241 - bond funds and then our existing garage leases, is there anything other leases out there that we have 02:07:54.241 --> 02:07:59.614 - any responsibility for in any capacity or that would be outside the TIP? 02:08:00.226 --> 02:08:08.099 - Is it 2519? Because 2519 is not in here. That you're paying leases on? Yes, that we would pay or potential 02:08:08.099 --> 02:08:15.605 - leases that we're unaware of. We're paying them or we're collecting them? Paying. He's saying paying. 02:08:15.605 --> 02:08:23.036 - I'm saying paying. Collecting them. This is a spending plan. Yeah. OK. Just clarification. Yeah, the 02:08:23.036 --> 02:08:29.438 - only payments. The only payments we make are the Wallen Street garage and the Mercury. 02:08:30.658 --> 02:08:38.231 - Yeah, it goes by lots of different names, doesn't it? Merrick Carrier, Register, Morton Street. Yeah, 02:08:38.231 --> 02:08:45.804 - it was Register when the Bowdeans were here, tearing it down. Okay, any other questions before we ask 02:08:45.804 --> 02:08:53.303 - for a motion on Resolution 2682? I'll move approval of Resolution 2682. I'll second. We have a first 02:08:53.303 --> 02:08:59.614 - and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes unanimously. Thank you. 02:09:00.258 --> 02:09:07.805 - Thank you. Thanks Justin. Okay, next item on the agenda is resolution 2683, which is approval of professional 02:09:07.805 --> 02:09:15.077 - services agreement between the City of Bloomington and Crossroads Engineers PC for engineering assessment 02:09:15.077 --> 02:09:21.937 - for TAP and Vanguard improvements. Good evening. I'm Michael Bitsky from City Engineering. I'm here 02:09:21.937 --> 02:09:28.798 - tonight to ask for funding for the contract you have in front of you for Crossroads Engineering for 02:09:28.798 --> 02:09:29.758 - surveying and 02:09:30.210 --> 02:09:36.974 - analyzing the intersection of Tapp and Vanguard. It was on the transportation impact assessment study 02:09:36.974 --> 02:09:43.738 - of the southwest side of town. So this is the part of phase one of those projects, if you recall. And 02:09:43.738 --> 02:09:50.966 - this would be pursuant to resolution 25-127 that set aside $5 million for this effort with the understanding 02:09:50.966 --> 02:09:57.730 - that we would bring these contracts back to the commission for approval. So this item was approved at 02:09:57.730 --> 02:09:59.454 - the Board of Public Works 02:10:00.002 --> 02:10:10.012 - I'm sorry, it will be approved by the Board of Public Works on November 4th. It's on their agenda. And 02:10:10.012 --> 02:10:19.731 - we do expect an addendum for final design once the analysis, the intersection is complete. So there 02:10:19.731 --> 02:10:25.854 - will be an addendum for this original contract. Any questions? 02:10:27.298 --> 02:10:33.997 - You've got it already got the other side. You already got the intersection built at this particular 02:10:33.997 --> 02:10:40.763 - point. No, we didn't. So there isn't a their intersection exists, but we're looking at modifying the 02:10:40.763 --> 02:10:47.662 - intersection to take the relocation of Weimar and bring in the South and card, which will increase the 02:10:47.662 --> 02:10:53.825 - amount of traffic. So we're looking at increasing the intersection, increasing the capacity 02:10:53.825 --> 02:10:55.902 - of the intersection. Yes, yes. 02:10:56.002 --> 02:11:02.120 - And that's what the analysis is for to understand what we need there based on the change and traffic 02:11:02.120 --> 02:11:08.237 - volumes. Yeah, because as we look going through this property and where we have you, do you have you 02:11:08.237 --> 02:11:14.415 - already got your right of ways in place? We're working on an agreement for that. And then part of the 02:11:14.415 --> 02:11:20.170 - next next contract includes some of that work. Yes, the is I guess was just for clarity, these 02:11:20.170 --> 02:11:24.894 - two resolutions were split apart because this first resident the construction 02:11:25.346 --> 02:11:31.805 - of this first resolution may contain federal funding. Okay. So we're splitting them apart just for clarity 02:11:31.805 --> 02:11:37.963 - of project. Okay. So as you look at this project overall, because you're trying to straighten out and 02:11:37.963 --> 02:11:44.121 - get out of the floodplain. That's correct. I mean, bring it to the top of the hill, go straight right 02:11:44.121 --> 02:11:50.218 - away acquisition. So because this has been going on for about 25 years. Straightening out right away 02:11:50.218 --> 02:11:54.142 - acquisition and then abandoning Weaver. Is that the overall from 02:11:54.370 --> 02:11:59.829 - from Wapahani where it takes the sharp turn to the east, yeah, that will no longer be a roadway. And 02:11:59.829 --> 02:12:05.396 - we looked at this and I may be getting into a little bit of weeds here. We're identifying the Vanguard 02:12:05.396 --> 02:12:11.018 - intersection. We still, you anticipate being able to get the right of way without having to go through, 02:12:11.018 --> 02:12:16.423 - come back and ask for money on that. So we, for the intersection of Tapp and Vanguard, when it was, 02:12:16.423 --> 02:12:21.882 - when right of way was originally given or purchased or created in that area, there was a significant 02:12:21.882 --> 02:12:23.774 - amount of additional right of way. 02:12:24.066 --> 02:12:29.665 - that is already public right away. Okay, so we've got that covered. Yes. And then long term, 02:12:29.665 --> 02:12:35.925 - looking at this, are we all also looking because this is a very expensive road that's going to be very, 02:12:35.925 --> 02:12:42.006 - very, very expensive, expensive intersection. And then what do we do as we hit Weimer coming back up 02:12:42.006 --> 02:12:48.507 - to Second Street? Is that part of any long term analysis? It's part of the next contract, the next business 02:12:48.507 --> 02:12:50.494 - item here on the agenda tonight. 02:12:51.330 --> 02:12:59.087 - just want to make because we bought we bought the fire extinguisher building about 20 some years ago 02:12:59.087 --> 02:13:06.768 - and so all right perfect thank you so much sure any other questions or comments on commissioners on 02:13:06.768 --> 02:13:14.602 - resolution 2683 if not I'll ask for a motion please got a first and a second all in favor say aye aye 02:13:14.602 --> 02:13:18.366 - any opposed pass unanimously thank you thank you 02:13:19.042 --> 02:13:25.546 - Okay, next item on the agenda. You're still up. 2684, please, which is approval of professional services 02:13:25.546 --> 02:13:31.740 - agreement between the city of Bloomington and Crossword Engineers PC for engineering assessment for 02:13:31.740 --> 02:13:38.058 - tap and Vanguard improvements. Sorry, I misread it. I hadn't scrolled down. I thought I clicked on to 02:13:38.058 --> 02:13:42.270 - the next one. I was expecting something similar, but it's actually. 02:13:42.402 --> 02:13:50.126 - So this is 2684, approval of professional services agreement between the city of Bloomington and Crossroads. 02:13:50.126 --> 02:13:57.778 - Engineers PC for engineering assessment for South Weimar Road relocation and Weimar-Bloomfield intersection 02:13:57.778 --> 02:14:05.077 - improvements. Yes, this will be the relocation, the full design of the Weimar relocation from Wapahani 02:14:05.077 --> 02:14:11.454 - down to the intersection of Schmalls and Vanguard, as well as the analysis of Bloomfield. 02:14:11.554 --> 02:14:19.927 - and Wimmer intersection, which includes the property that was purchased a while back. So this item was 02:14:19.927 --> 02:14:28.219 - approved by the Board of Public Works on October 20th. So we have an approved contract. We do expect, 02:14:28.219 --> 02:14:37.161 - like the other business item, we do expect an addendum for the final design of the intersection at Bloomfield 02:14:37.161 --> 02:14:41.470 - and Wimmer once the analysis is complete. Thank you. 02:14:41.570 --> 02:14:49.405 - further questions or comments from commissioners on 2684? I just want to verify. Do we have any idea 02:14:49.405 --> 02:14:57.549 - what this overall construction cost would be? I do not at this time. Because I'm just curious in regards 02:14:57.549 --> 02:15:05.307 - to where we come from a funding standpoint and trying to do this major road that should enhance our 02:15:05.307 --> 02:15:10.814 - ability to expand our employment opportunities given the zoning there. 02:15:11.106 --> 02:15:17.603 - reality of where we are able to fund this after we get the designs done. It concerns me when we spend 02:15:17.603 --> 02:15:23.972 - this kind of money and we really don't know or have an idea of what our overall construction. Don't 02:15:23.972 --> 02:15:30.787 - you have to spend this money to fund it? Once the intersection analysis is done, there's a huge difference 02:15:30.787 --> 02:15:37.157 - in cost between intersection types. So once those recommendations come in, I think we'll be able to 02:15:37.157 --> 02:15:38.558 - tie those costs down. 02:15:38.946 --> 02:15:45.853 - With a contingency to make sure we're going to hit the mark. Right, because when we look at 13 years 02:15:45.853 --> 02:15:52.692 - left into a TIF, and then what our federal funding will be, what our overall matching funds are. It 02:15:52.692 --> 02:15:59.668 - just concerns me, because it's such a large road that we just funded a piece of one a few years back, 02:15:59.668 --> 02:16:06.302 - and it's still setting. Thank you. I have a suggestion and a question. Since we're actually just 02:16:06.562 --> 02:16:13.636 - burning down the five million with each one of these resolutions. It just might be handy for us to have 02:16:13.636 --> 02:16:20.506 - in maybe the first whereas. It says we've earmarked five million. You also could give us the balance 02:16:20.506 --> 02:16:27.444 - of what's left that is available. So as we get additional resolutions, we know how much we can spend. 02:16:27.444 --> 02:16:34.382 - Yeah, I appreciate that. That's a good idea. That's a great idea. That's my token idea. I can go home 02:16:34.382 --> 02:16:35.742 - now. Call it a day. 02:16:36.194 --> 02:16:45.503 - Wait. Mike did provide me a breakdown. I do not have it available at the second minute, but I can get 02:16:45.503 --> 02:16:55.085 - that to you in an email, let you know. I mean, I can do the math. It's not too hard. It'd just be easier 02:16:55.085 --> 02:17:04.211 - not to have to do the math. We have not processed any claims against that $5 million yet. But we've 02:17:04.211 --> 02:17:05.854 - made commitments. 02:17:06.594 --> 02:17:13.337 - So I'm talking about reducing the five million by the commitments. We do have a project tracking sheet 02:17:13.337 --> 02:17:20.015 - that we will work on adding. Yeah, that could just be included even as an exhibit or reference in the 02:17:20.015 --> 02:17:26.562 - first whereas. But it would be nice to have something detailed as well. I have a separate question, 02:17:26.562 --> 02:17:33.305 - which is just based on Randy's note that in terms of the total life period of the TIF that's left. And 02:17:33.305 --> 02:17:36.382 - this is because this is largely, I don't know, 02:17:36.706 --> 02:17:43.176 - my take relatively undeveloped in terms of what's forthcoming. And this is a little adjacent, so it's 02:17:43.176 --> 02:17:49.519 - not really a direct question to you, but more to, let's say, legal. Is there any reason to consider 02:17:49.519 --> 02:17:56.243 - where maybe this part of the consolidated TIF might be taken out of that so that, because it's relatively 02:17:56.243 --> 02:18:02.713 - low assessed value right now compared to where the potential is, so that there could be more time for 02:18:02.713 --> 02:18:05.758 - the total build out that is going to be needed? 02:18:06.050 --> 02:18:13.031 - And you can certainly let me know if I'm off in my understanding of the total concept of where this 02:18:13.031 --> 02:18:20.431 - is, what the assessed value is, what the projected need may be. But I'm just asking that question because 02:18:20.431 --> 02:18:27.481 - we're talking about it now, even though it's not specifically germane to the actual approval of this 02:18:27.481 --> 02:18:34.462 - resolution. Yes, I would very likely recommend that there be a separate TIF created like we did for 02:18:34.462 --> 02:18:35.998 - Summit when this area 02:18:36.706 --> 02:18:48.110 - actually gets ready for development. Most of that property is owned by a public investment board. And 02:18:48.110 --> 02:18:59.402 - we have an agreement that is almost signed to where in the part that's not already platted that they 02:18:59.402 --> 02:19:06.110 - would provide a 65 foot right of way through their property 02:19:06.210 --> 02:19:15.792 - to where Wapahane and we were connect. And so they're going to provide that. If we need more than that, 02:19:15.792 --> 02:19:25.373 - they wouldn't, you know, wouldn't pay for that, but they're going to provide that. It's a detailed MOU, 02:19:25.373 --> 02:19:34.494 - so I won't get into the whole thing. But so the, that this area wouldn't develop without the road. 02:19:35.170 --> 02:19:44.922 - So it's going to need the road to develop. So we'll need to do the improvements. And then once 02:19:44.922 --> 02:19:55.393 - the improvements are made, then as it starts to develop and it's his own TIF, it can start generating 02:19:55.393 --> 02:20:01.758 - funds to help cover the cost of what had gone into that area. 02:20:01.890 --> 02:20:10.743 - that can be used on other projects as well. Like we're using those funds on this project. Okay. So what 02:20:10.743 --> 02:20:19.511 - I'm hearing, this thing will get broke out eventually if it's on TIF again. Yes. It's been a TIF since 02:20:19.511 --> 02:20:28.279 - 91 and then it's been reintroduced again. Right now the investment board pick property is not actively 02:20:28.279 --> 02:20:29.726 - being developed. 02:20:30.754 --> 02:20:40.240 - at this time. OK. So that'll be something that's forthcoming somewhere in the lifetime of this project 02:20:40.240 --> 02:20:49.633 - in, let's say, the next two years or so? Likely, or at least any time before the development actually 02:20:49.633 --> 02:20:58.014 - starts. OK. As long as it's on somebody's radar, just saying. Yes. Yes. Yes. Design. I am. 02:20:58.850 --> 02:21:13.702 - have been looking at areas that could use improvement that might be even if they're not inside the existing 02:21:13.702 --> 02:21:27.454 - TIF that the RDC might want to consider looking at to help with improvement. So yes, again, 2040 is 02:21:28.386 --> 02:21:35.134 - just around the corner in some ways. Okay. Well, thank you for your help with that question. Other questions? 02:21:35.134 --> 02:21:41.576 - Crossroads. They give you a time frame in order to, once you sign contracts with them, to get this done. 02:21:41.576 --> 02:21:47.895 - So we've got a time in there. We're a little behind the schedule that was presented in the request for 02:21:47.895 --> 02:21:54.029 - information just to get to this contractual phase. But we intend to have South William or the South 02:21:54.029 --> 02:21:56.606 - William relocation ready for construction 02:21:57.090 --> 02:22:04.747 - middle to the third quarter of next year. And then that's just to stay in line with the schedule that's 02:22:04.747 --> 02:22:12.404 - been presented to us by the developer of Summit. Just try to stay in step with them and what they think 02:22:12.404 --> 02:22:20.281 - they'll be doing. The Shasta Meadow area. Well, to me, specifically the construction of Adams and Sudbury, 02:22:20.281 --> 02:22:25.214 - which then sets up the ability to sell lots in Shasta Meadow, yes. 02:22:28.866 --> 02:22:35.316 - If there are no other questions or comments from commissioners, I will ask for a motion for resolution 02:22:35.316 --> 02:22:41.766 - 2684, please. I'll make a motion to approve 2684 as presented. Second. We've got a first and a second. 02:22:41.766 --> 02:22:46.462 - All in favor say aye. Aye. Anybody opposed? Passes unanimously. Thank you. 02:22:47.586 --> 02:22:56.612 - Okay, next item on the agenda is Resolution 2685, Approval of First Amendment to the Professional Services 02:22:56.612 --> 02:23:05.300 - Agreement with Applied Engineering Services, Incorporated for Plumbing and Engineering Services at the 02:23:05.300 --> 02:23:13.735 - 4th Street Garage. Who would like to speak to that? I will. Yeah, I think that's a data. During the 02:23:13.735 --> 02:23:17.278 - investigation work that Applied had done, 02:23:17.954 --> 02:23:30.966 - They ended up finding additional work that needed done, but we were able to get some things corrected 02:23:30.966 --> 02:23:43.978 - by the original contractor, which was good. So that saved us the cost of that actual activity. But in 02:23:43.978 --> 02:23:47.678 - doing so, it took some extra 02:23:47.842 --> 02:24:01.492 - time for applied engineering to do their work. And we need a concise report of the activities that were 02:24:01.492 --> 02:24:15.143 - done. And so in order to complete their scope of work, they needed some additional, their scope of work 02:24:15.143 --> 02:24:17.374 - was increased to 02:24:17.634 --> 02:24:28.844 - cover that. So there was further evaluation of repairs, additional work to address the existing piping 02:24:28.844 --> 02:24:39.727 - conditions, including the need to develop a revised design to provide adequate slope for the garage 02:24:39.727 --> 02:24:46.366 - drain system. So the additional work is laid out for you and 02:24:46.754 --> 02:24:59.467 - So this is just the cost to complete their part. Again, it was a great benefit that the contractor came 02:24:59.467 --> 02:25:12.424 - back and repaired some of the issues. And again, this is being paid out of the bond fund. Any idea what's 02:25:12.424 --> 02:25:15.358 - left in that? $450,000. 02:25:15.938 --> 02:25:22.980 - And that'll be used for ongoing maintenance and operation. Well, no, not maintenance, but not routine 02:25:22.980 --> 02:25:29.954 - maintenance. Yeah, let me rephrase that. When something fails. Yes, exactly. Just like the sprinkler 02:25:29.954 --> 02:25:36.858 - system. If and when we discover additional things. We discover anything additional. And this work's 02:25:36.858 --> 02:25:44.798 - already been done, performed, over with. We're just catching the dollars up with it. So it's an additional $8,465. 02:25:47.554 --> 02:25:54.707 - We're done. We're good on the 4th Street garage, on its drainage. We've got it figured out on its sprinkler. 02:25:54.707 --> 02:26:01.400 - To the best of our knowledge. You've been around the business long enough to know that things happen. 02:26:01.400 --> 02:26:08.160 - Water will always find a way. But this is the best effort that we have to get this fixed and done. And 02:26:08.160 --> 02:26:14.722 - we don't have to engage an engineer at this present moment to do any additional evaluation on this. 02:26:14.722 --> 02:26:17.150 - This is so we can process our claim. 02:26:18.466 --> 02:26:25.588 - If there's no further questions, I'll ask for a motion on 2685. Do you have another question? No. Okay. 02:26:25.588 --> 02:26:32.573 - Just a second. No. Okay. Approval of Resolution 2685. Second. Move a first and a second. All in favor 02:26:32.573 --> 02:26:39.558 - say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Sorry, be legal. Nope, nope. You're good. Make sure we're not in the 02:26:39.558 --> 02:26:41.886 - opposed line. Passes unanimously. 02:26:42.242 --> 02:26:48.203 - Okay, next item on the agenda is resolution 2686, approval of agreement with VET Environmental Engineering 02:26:48.203 --> 02:26:53.886 - LLC for lead-based paint and asbestos inspections at College Square. Who would like to speak to that? 02:26:54.146 --> 02:27:01.744 - I'd be happy to talk about it. As you know, any time you're considering demolishing a building, an item 02:27:01.744 --> 02:27:09.341 - will require specific testing for asbestos and lead-based paint testing. We have had phase ones on this 02:27:09.341 --> 02:27:16.647 - building, but they did not do this specific testing. So this is now to the tune of $17,184.81 if we 02:27:16.647 --> 02:27:23.806 - are to consider the possible demolition of the building. Obviously, no agreements have been made. 02:27:23.906 --> 02:27:30.404 - at a position to say that this is absolutely happening or not happening, but this is to better inform 02:27:30.404 --> 02:27:36.775 - us as we move forward with considerations of its future. Okay, thank you. Any comments or questions 02:27:36.775 --> 02:27:43.210 - from commissioners from resolution 2686? Is there any other things we need to be looking for besides 02:27:43.210 --> 02:27:45.758 - letting asbestos so it won't come back? 02:27:46.018 --> 02:27:53.226 - I don't think so. I mean, we've been working on trying to obtain closure letters from IDEM at College 02:27:53.226 --> 02:28:00.435 - Square following the remediation efforts that were recent. So we're still waiting on those right now. 02:28:00.435 --> 02:28:07.572 - But we've already done geotechnicals. We've already had phase ones. We've already had phase twos. So 02:28:07.572 --> 02:28:15.134 - this is just the next step. In the building itself. Yes. In the building itself as we consider its future. 02:28:16.066 --> 02:28:22.361 - Which? Who knows? Well, yeah, considering, I think we've spent about $700 or $800 on utilities on a 02:28:22.361 --> 02:28:28.720 - monthly basis. And we are actually in the process of billing back some of those utilities to Weddle, 02:28:28.720 --> 02:28:35.267 - who's been occupying the space right now, too. So those will be credited back to you soon. OK. And then 02:28:35.267 --> 02:28:41.814 - last question in regards to this. We've got to get it done if we're ever going to consider tearing this 02:28:41.814 --> 02:28:45.214 - down. And it's not getting cheaper, obviously. Right. 02:28:45.794 --> 02:28:51.647 - to tear them down. How many solar panels are in, how many are ours, and where are we gonna take them 02:28:51.647 --> 02:28:57.500 - so we can consider this, because we're spending $17,000 to tear them down, and we've got to. That is 02:28:57.500 --> 02:29:03.585 - a whole nother conversation. Director Cooper-Smith is no longer here with us tonight. She's been working 02:29:03.585 --> 02:29:09.380 - hard with Dana to come up with a plan of how to deal with the solar panels, so I assure you that it 02:29:09.380 --> 02:29:14.654 - is on our radar, and hopefully we'll be updating you soon. There's only so much bandwidth. 02:29:15.778 --> 02:29:26.894 - anything we can do to help with that. Thank you. Yes, sir. The contract, well, the way the resolution 02:29:26.894 --> 02:29:38.009 - reads, the funds are available up to June 1st of 2027. I believe that's what it says. But I don't see 02:29:38.009 --> 02:29:44.766 - anywhere in the documents where that actually has to complete 02:29:47.938 --> 02:29:56.141 - Maybe I missed it, so that's why another set of eyes is great. But it needs to have a deadline. I'd 02:29:56.141 --> 02:30:04.591 - be happy to add a deadline to this. I think when I last spoke to them, they were able to start working 02:30:04.591 --> 02:30:13.122 - on it pretty soon. But I think we were giving ourselves some flexibility if there was coordination with 02:30:13.122 --> 02:30:17.470 - IDEM. Well, I don't mind. The resolution reads fine. 02:30:17.954 --> 02:30:24.730 - how long the funds are available from us, but I don't want, I don't think that gives, that's 02:30:24.730 --> 02:30:32.745 - not a completion. The term of the agreement expires on June 1st, although that obviously does not necessarily 02:30:32.745 --> 02:30:40.178 - say that the work will be done by that time. There's like nothing in this proposal here. Oh, I'm just 02:30:40.178 --> 02:30:45.278 - looking at the agreement for services and the term, right, where that 02:30:46.338 --> 02:30:55.460 - says that it shall commence on the effective date and expire on the first day of June, 2027. So my inference, 02:30:55.460 --> 02:31:03.919 - which maybe it needs to be spelled out more clearly, was that that meant that- Well, I guess then the 02:31:03.919 --> 02:31:12.295 - follow up to that comment, it doesn't take that long. So let's shorten that up. Open to suggestions. 02:31:12.295 --> 02:31:15.198 - Happy to modify- By the end of the 02:31:15.298 --> 02:31:23.283 - first quarter of next year. I mean, we'd like the information sooner than later. If there's a remediation 02:31:23.283 --> 02:31:30.966 - problem that we don't want to wait till June to find out about it. Sure. I think that's fine. Because 02:31:30.966 --> 02:31:39.102 - if we look to tear it down, what is the time frame? Well, I'm trying to get them there as soon as possible. 02:31:39.362 --> 02:31:47.446 - Got to get this approved for them for me to give them the green light to go I April 1st is fine with 02:31:47.446 --> 02:31:55.531 - me March 1st is fine with me. Obviously we would like this Yeah, so I don't care It's it's literally 02:31:55.531 --> 02:32:01.374 - just like the report by March I will make sure that that works with them 02:32:04.642 --> 02:32:13.459 - So then you would need to, if you're going to approve it, move approval with that modification. I will. 02:32:13.459 --> 02:32:22.023 - And that modification would be in the resolution and in the agreement? Okay. Anything further? Thank 02:32:22.023 --> 02:32:31.179 - you for calling that to our attention. If not, I will ask for a motion for 2686, please. I'll move approval 02:32:31.179 --> 02:32:33.214 - of resolution 2686 with 02:32:34.562 --> 02:32:44.414 - modification that the completion date for the work from that environmental is March 1, 2027. Second? 02:32:44.414 --> 02:32:54.558 - We've got a first and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passing unanimously. Thank you. 02:32:55.202 --> 02:33:03.385 - We now move on to resolution 2687, which is approval of amendment number three to the agreement with 02:33:03.385 --> 02:33:11.892 - Flintlock Limited Company for additional services related to the creation of a planned union development 02:33:11.892 --> 02:33:20.480 - PUD for Hopewell South. Would like to speak to that. I'm happy to also, sorry, I was updating that piece. 02:33:20.480 --> 02:33:24.126 - So as you know, with our pre-approved plans, 02:33:24.642 --> 02:33:33.893 - We are able to move forward with those without engaging. And in Indiana, you have to have a stamped 02:33:33.893 --> 02:33:43.236 - architectural drawings from an engineer in Indiana. And so these are for those multifamily buildings 02:33:43.236 --> 02:33:52.672 - that require additional work, unfortunately, for our plans. I don't know, Dana, do you have anything? 02:33:52.672 --> 02:33:54.430 - It's an MEP stamp. 02:33:54.850 --> 02:34:05.214 - was we did not have to have these larger multiplex buildings. But then as part of the design to keep 02:34:05.214 --> 02:34:15.680 - the number of units, when you looked at the right of ways of the roads and things like that that were 02:34:15.680 --> 02:34:24.094 - being done during the design to keep the unit number up, there had to be a larger 02:34:24.226 --> 02:34:34.706 - There's two six unit buildings and two 12 unit buildings. And so initially these weren't part of the 02:34:34.706 --> 02:34:45.394 - scope because they weren't needed. But when the area to build got smaller because of the right of ways 02:34:45.394 --> 02:34:54.110 - getting larger than we had hoped, then that made it again that we had to use these. 02:34:54.306 --> 02:35:04.819 - These are different structures than what was originally determined. And they have more than four units. 02:35:04.819 --> 02:35:15.129 - They require different building plans. And so when developing this project, it was said that we would 02:35:15.129 --> 02:35:19.678 - have pre-approved plans to a certain extent. 02:35:20.194 --> 02:35:29.942 - And so in order for that to be true for these buildings, they need this additional work to design them 02:35:29.942 --> 02:35:39.594 - out. These buildings weren't, again, part of the initial project. They came in as a result of changes 02:35:39.594 --> 02:35:49.342 - that were made because of right of way and such. And so because they require a different building code 02:35:49.538 --> 02:36:02.083 - that they fall under, they do require different types of drawings. And so this would cover those other 02:36:02.083 --> 02:36:14.506 - drawings so that these units would have the same offering as the other buildings where there were, to 02:36:14.506 --> 02:36:19.134 - a certain extent, pre-approved plans. 02:36:19.554 --> 02:36:28.727 - pre-designed buildings like the others were. For the footprint. Sorry. Go ahead. No, ladies first. I 02:36:28.727 --> 02:36:38.353 - was just going to say it requires an MEP stamp, which is mechanical, electrical, and plumbing engineering 02:36:38.353 --> 02:36:48.161 - stamp on these particular types. So looking back through the June 2025 when this was presented by Flintlock 02:36:48.161 --> 02:36:49.342 - at the time, 02:36:49.474 --> 02:36:56.979 - those buildings were there from a footprint standpoint. No? No. Because of the changes the council had 02:36:56.979 --> 02:37:04.265 - made, in order to preserve our unit count, they ended up adding back in these multifamily buildings 02:37:04.265 --> 02:37:11.770 - to help keep the unit count up. So there were several changes. And in fact, there is language in their 02:37:11.770 --> 02:37:18.910 - agreement that says, should this be something that comes up, that we would have to get this done. 02:37:19.074 --> 02:37:27.457 - and I can pull that up, because I questioned it. Well, I questioned it because I looked at the original 02:37:27.457 --> 02:37:35.517 - layout that was presented when we went through the planning. It had the Faulkner and Williams on it 02:37:35.517 --> 02:37:44.222 - as from a visual 2D look. So I understand because of the code issue, it got missed. But what I'm asking is, 02:37:44.514 --> 02:37:50.955 - is that a necessity to go ahead and have these pre-approved because they are the multi-family units. 02:37:50.955 --> 02:37:57.971 - And with the platting of what we're looking at now, is this something that has to be done from a pre-approved 02:37:57.971 --> 02:38:03.966 - standpoint? Because when we get into our multi-families, we're in a little bit of a different 02:38:04.866 --> 02:38:11.645 - set than providing single family and duplex. That is true. But unfortunately, the language in the PUD 02:38:11.645 --> 02:38:18.357 - does say pre-approved plans. And so this is a condition of that. And then also, it was buried in the 02:38:18.357 --> 02:38:25.202 - language of the proposal from Flintlock that as a contingency, that if this were to come up, that this 02:38:25.202 --> 02:38:32.446 - would be an additional fee. Indiana requires an Indiana-specific MEP stamp. Right. They were using Arkansas. 02:38:32.866 --> 02:38:40.806 - Yeah, the PUD requires a catalog of pre-approved plans. OK. So I guess the question I would look at 02:38:40.806 --> 02:38:48.032 - is, what's the timing on a pre-approved? Planning is actually already given their blessing 02:38:48.032 --> 02:38:56.131 - for the single-family residential house plans. So those are great from the pre-reviewed, pre-approved 02:38:56.131 --> 02:39:01.054 - standpoint. Obviously, these two buildings are the last ones. 02:39:02.018 --> 02:39:07.394 - because my concern of this is as we're looking at a multifamily building in regards to as who's going 02:39:07.394 --> 02:39:12.717 - to buy it and build it and is there any going to be any additional modifications that they see based 02:39:12.717 --> 02:39:18.146 - upon what the market conditions are in Bloomington in order to condo these out. Because while I... The 02:39:18.146 --> 02:39:23.680 - modifications who's paying for it. Exactly what's the modifications that would need to be made who would 02:39:23.680 --> 02:39:26.526 - have to pay for it and from a pre-approved standpoint 02:39:26.946 --> 02:39:34.257 - You know, because the singles, the duplexes, and even the tries, I understand. But when we're getting 02:39:34.257 --> 02:39:41.425 - into these four multifamily buildings, it just concerns me because of reconfiguration based on, oh, 02:39:41.425 --> 02:39:48.951 - here's what's pre-approved. Well, I'm sorry, but that's not necessarily what the market or the community 02:39:48.951 --> 02:39:56.190 - has the ability to absorb. We have to go back for an amendment. Well, the UDO does have a section of 02:39:56.866 --> 02:40:07.468 - what can be amended within the PUD. And there's a certain percentage of size. Height can be changed, 02:40:07.468 --> 02:40:18.070 - but not more than eight feet, or you can't add a story to it. So there are modifications that can be 02:40:18.070 --> 02:40:24.158 - made and still fall within the PUD. But so if a developer 02:40:25.282 --> 02:40:38.076 - this building and wanted to to change it they they could do so and you know rework it to their to their 02:40:38.076 --> 02:40:49.886 - likings as long as they stayed within the you know not changing it by a certain size or height. 02:40:50.946 --> 02:40:57.994 - based on the setbacks aside. It seems to me like we're talking about something that is hypothetical. 02:40:57.994 --> 02:41:04.971 - And if there is changes by a particular developer, most likely it would be on his nickel, not ours, 02:41:04.971 --> 02:41:12.228 - because we're providing a baseline of what we're going to do. And if they want to do some modifications 02:41:12.228 --> 02:41:17.950 - that are approved by planning, that's fine. But I don't know that we can sit here 02:41:18.082 --> 02:41:24.250 - No, my only concern, I'm not trying to hypothesize anything. I'm trying to get that word out. What I'm 02:41:24.250 --> 02:41:30.357 - looking at is, as we look at this, and we're supposed to try to make everything from an affordability 02:41:30.357 --> 02:41:36.525 - standpoint, each one of those costs that adds on always adds a little bit more. I know, Randy. But the 02:41:36.525 --> 02:41:42.573 - streamlining things by having the pre-approved plans, again, which is already amended by the PUD, is 02:41:42.573 --> 02:41:47.902 - at least supposed to help get through the review process more efficiently, more quickly. 02:41:48.066 --> 02:41:54.587 - I'm just quick looking like, for example, at South Bend's catalog, um, from 2025, where they've got 02:41:54.587 --> 02:42:01.499 - up to a sixplex apartment in there in terms of just as an example of what a catalog, the range of housing 02:42:01.499 --> 02:42:08.020 - that could be in there. Um, and I think again, as is coming out that we get what is pre-approved by 02:42:08.020 --> 02:42:14.606 - the city for our end of things. And, um, and that's hopefully something that then can follow through 02:42:14.606 --> 02:42:17.214 - in terms of make easing the way from a, 02:42:17.378 --> 02:42:22.866 - builder standpoint, so. Right, and if we were to hold off on this too, even if the PUD would allow for 02:42:22.866 --> 02:42:28.354 - it, I mean, how does that impact the affordability of the units that the builder has to take that cost 02:42:28.354 --> 02:42:33.735 - on? Because they have to have that. Right, the point is having the pre-approved plans is to make, to 02:42:33.735 --> 02:42:39.170 - streamline the total entitlement process so that you can go straight to site review as opposed to all 02:42:39.170 --> 02:42:43.326 - the other in-between. So anyway, just... Yeah, I don't disagree on any of it. 02:42:43.618 --> 02:42:51.840 - The only question was what the cost factor was that's come back to us at the end. Well, maybe not. Observe 02:42:51.840 --> 02:42:59.524 - that, right? Maybe not. It may be a perfect thing. Or maybe we pass that cost on to the individuals 02:42:59.524 --> 02:43:07.362 - that request it. Yeah. So just trying to minimize costs. I just don't want to have that conversation. 02:43:07.362 --> 02:43:11.742 - I know, but we're trying to keep the project moving too. 02:43:12.482 --> 02:43:22.197 - The point of pre-approved plans is to ideally to reduce the cost of the total by expediting the process 02:43:22.197 --> 02:43:31.632 - and reducing the upfront costs for the builder. Any other questions on this amendment that's part of 02:43:31.632 --> 02:43:39.198 - the agreement with Flintlock for resolution 2687? If not, I'll ask for a motion. 02:43:40.994 --> 02:43:49.685 - Approval of resolution 2687. Second. We've got a first and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. 02:43:49.685 --> 02:43:58.739 - Any opposed? Passes unanimously. I'm sorry, you are? I am going to oppose. Okay, so we've got three 02:43:58.739 --> 02:44:05.438 - in favor, one opposed. Thank you. Okay, we are now on to resolution 2688. 02:44:05.762 --> 02:44:12.002 - which is approval of the third amendment to the agreement with Mother Nature Landscaping Incorporated 02:44:12.002 --> 02:44:18.181 - for erosion control measures at Hopewell East. I'm taking this one for Kendall this evening. We were 02:44:18.181 --> 02:44:24.421 - asking for an approval of amendment number three in the amount of 5825 with Mother Nature Landscaping 02:44:24.421 --> 02:44:30.661 - for what will be the final erosion control services at Hopewell East. We recognize that Milestone was 02:44:30.661 --> 02:44:32.190 - the original contractor. 02:44:32.706 --> 02:44:40.270 - We believe they satisfied their contract with the original install as well as multiple attempts to repair 02:44:40.270 --> 02:44:47.619 - what was damaged. But there was just, after repeated efforts, they're just approved and unapproved use 02:44:47.619 --> 02:44:54.969 - in the northwest corner of that development that we could not sustain and get to hold erosion control. 02:44:54.969 --> 02:45:01.534 - So in an effort to try to get the MS4 permit approved and completed by the end of the year, 02:45:02.082 --> 02:45:11.100 - We're asking to hire Mother Nature for this amount to get that area completed so we can get those permits 02:45:11.100 --> 02:45:19.777 - closed out. Thank you. Any questions or comments from commissioners on resolution 2688? Don't we have 02:45:19.777 --> 02:45:28.455 - an agreement with Calumet to utilize that area at the present moment for a lay down area? I'm unaware 02:45:28.455 --> 02:45:31.262 - of that. Yeah. No, I believe it. 02:45:31.458 --> 02:45:37.477 - That is not the same area North Calumet. I believe we were speaking for construction folks. I think 02:45:37.477 --> 02:45:43.615 - we've been chasing Calumet off that space. Well, I understand they're not using it, but we did. Well, 02:45:43.615 --> 02:45:49.935 - actually, they may not be using it continually. They're using the high. Yeah, I understand they're using 02:45:49.935 --> 02:45:56.194 - high speed for their lay down old high speed building for their lay down, but they have been used. They 02:45:56.194 --> 02:45:58.782 - have been on the site with their vehicles. 02:46:00.994 --> 02:46:11.094 - We've got a video. We've got our camera. The question is, is it approved use or are they just? Well, 02:46:11.094 --> 02:46:21.994 - unless, did they never execute? We passed by a resolution to allow them to use that site. It also terminates 02:46:21.994 --> 02:46:29.694 - December 31st of 2026. The resolution to utilize that area was with Calumet. 02:46:29.794 --> 02:46:38.632 - because they were supposed to contain it and re-establish it. So I understand we're going to close our 02:46:38.632 --> 02:46:44.638 - permit out. I just want to make sure from a responsibility cost-wise. 02:47:01.410 --> 02:47:10.291 - My memory serves me correct. What it was is they would not sign the agreement. And so because they found 02:47:10.291 --> 02:47:18.918 - another place to go. They're on Madison Street at the old high speed. OK, so they wouldn't sign it so 02:47:18.918 --> 02:47:27.038 - we don't have an agreement with Calumet. Which is why you're running them off every time. Yeah. 02:47:27.362 --> 02:47:36.844 - Dana's correct. I've found an email. They've decided to put their staging area elsewhere. They will 02:47:36.844 --> 02:47:46.990 - not be signing the agreement. OK. Appreciate all that. I've got a question, much like a couple resolutions 02:47:46.990 --> 02:47:55.998 - prior. Where in these documents does it give a completion date for Mother Nature? It does not. 02:47:57.282 --> 02:48:04.415 - I know there's no I didn't see a completion date, but I did see a an immediate start date. OK, well. 02:48:04.415 --> 02:48:11.689 - And then the funding authorization terminates May 31st, right? I know that, but we certainly not going 02:48:11.689 --> 02:48:18.822 - to wait that long to have the. So no, this is the right time to see it is right now. So I think with 02:48:18.822 --> 02:48:26.590 - all these performance contracts we had to have completion date, so it's a word for the future. Good. So what? 02:48:29.474 --> 02:48:43.649 - What do you recommend? Pardon me? What do you recommend as a completion date? March 1st. Those last 02:48:43.649 --> 02:48:52.862 - two months would only be if it was damaged. That should be done. 02:48:53.442 --> 02:48:58.708 - should be all done. They should be done in the next couple weeks if they're given a go and then process 02:48:58.708 --> 02:49:03.873 - coming soon. I was thinking it'd be by the end of the year because it's germinate erosion control. We 02:49:03.873 --> 02:49:08.987 - don't want to run it. We don't want to run into next year. So yeah, I mean germination if it's going 02:49:08.987 --> 02:49:14.202 - to happen this year, it's going to happen the next six weeks. So yeah, and so their work, I mean, they 02:49:14.202 --> 02:49:19.266 - don't have, they're not, we're not gonna wait around for germination, but their work should be done 02:49:19.266 --> 02:49:20.734 - by the end of December. Yes. 02:49:21.570 --> 02:49:29.507 - Will that satisfy and get us our MS board finished? It depends how dense it comes up, how dense it terminates 02:49:29.507 --> 02:49:36.795 - and how. I don't know. I'm just asking the question to try to get through, because this is being put 02:49:36.795 --> 02:49:44.443 - in for a so we can close out a project. I think I think sodding is just my perception. Lack of experience 02:49:44.443 --> 02:49:49.566 - here in Bloomington, but sodding has its own challenges because of the 02:49:49.954 --> 02:49:58.630 - the mixture that we have in the UDO for. For the bluegrass. For the bluegrass. Instead of fascia. Yeah. 02:49:58.630 --> 02:50:07.056 - Which, if you can get that changed. Bluegrass isn't native. Okay, so are we getting an amendment for 02:50:07.056 --> 02:50:14.814 - our December 31st closing of this project? Yeah, I was going to do the resolution with that. 02:50:19.650 --> 02:50:30.568 - Yeah I'm ready for a motion I just wanted to clarify the amendment and where it was going and what we're 02:50:30.568 --> 02:50:41.591 - saying. I'll move approval of resolution 2688 with a revision that completion date for the work by Mother 02:50:41.591 --> 02:50:47.934 - Nature's Landscaping to be completed by December 31st, 2026. 02:50:50.466 --> 02:50:58.927 - We've got a first and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes unanimously. Thank you. 02:50:58.927 --> 02:51:07.553 - Thank you. Next item on our agenda is resolution 2689, approval of the second amendment to the agreement 02:51:07.553 --> 02:51:15.768 - for public art in Hopewell East. Ms. Dragovich. Hi, thank you. These last two resolutions overlap a 02:51:15.768 --> 02:51:20.286 - little bit, so would it be okay if I talked about them 02:51:20.450 --> 02:51:31.295 - currently. So these last two resolutions are for undulate artwork in Hopewell East. You, I can't remember 02:51:31.295 --> 02:51:42.038 - which date you approved ENB paving to come in and install footers, concrete footers at the site. They've 02:51:42.038 --> 02:51:48.382 - now completed that work as of early last week and now, sorry, 02:51:50.850 --> 02:51:58.881 - It's eight o'clock, my brain's fried. So this second amendment, we've had to do a lot of site prep work 02:51:58.881 --> 02:52:06.834 - for this project and we did not want to do it in July or August or even early September to accommodate 02:52:06.834 --> 02:52:14.711 - all of the plants that are in the park currently. We wanted to wait until the fall to wait for plants 02:52:14.711 --> 02:52:20.734 - in essence. And so that has extended the project and thus it's time to update 02:52:20.962 --> 02:52:28.946 - the agreement that we have with the artist, John Reisak Bunyama. And so his project, his installation 02:52:28.946 --> 02:52:36.774 - is on track to be installed the first week of December. That's what we're still targeting. But this 02:52:36.774 --> 02:52:44.758 - will be to accommodate any work or any potential, hopefully none, but any potential weather delays in 02:52:44.758 --> 02:52:50.942 - that installation. And so we're asking for an extension to March 31st of 2027. 02:52:53.890 --> 02:53:03.048 - And do you want to distinguish anything in terms of 2690 since you had offered to talk about both of 02:53:03.048 --> 02:53:12.478 - them? And so as part of site prep, we also need to run electrical conduit, bore for electrical conduit. 02:53:12.478 --> 02:53:22.814 - There is a lighting feature on the sculpture. And so this would accommodate for that. That work is with Snedeker. 02:53:23.074 --> 02:53:31.971 - I solicited quotes, and Snedeker submitted a quote for $19,000 to do that work. And there's a lag currently 02:53:31.971 --> 02:53:40.291 - because the concrete footers need to cure for 30 days before we can install the sculpture. And so if 02:53:40.291 --> 02:53:48.611 - we have this window right now, that will keep us on target for that December installation date. Yes? 02:53:48.611 --> 02:53:52.318 - Any questions or comments from commissioners 02:53:53.026 --> 02:54:00.659 - these resolutions because I'm going to, since it was presented jointly, welcome questions on both jointly 02:54:00.659 --> 02:54:08.004 - and we can do a motion jointly as long as there's no other ways. I've got a kind of a question, maybe 02:54:08.004 --> 02:54:15.349 - a little more general, but it's more pertaining to 90 than 89. So we have, we've made a commitment to 02:54:15.349 --> 02:54:21.182 - spending 1% of some number. I'm not really sure what that number ended up being. 02:54:22.658 --> 02:54:31.020 - So the foundation work and the electrical work and everything that the artist is doing, that all is 02:54:31.020 --> 02:54:39.633 - within that 1%? So the contract that we have with the artist says that the RDC will pay for site prep. 02:54:39.633 --> 02:54:48.246 - So it is beyond that initial commitment that you made. But it seems to me that 1%, which you're making 02:54:48.246 --> 02:54:51.006 - a commitment for an art project, 02:54:51.746 --> 02:55:01.965 - All of the work that goes into the art project ought to be part of that 1%. So I don't understand why 02:55:01.965 --> 02:55:11.984 - there's add-ons. 1% is the entire project. I see what you're saying, and it makes complete sense. I 02:55:11.984 --> 02:55:21.502 - don't really have an answer for you. I do not know what the total project cost was for the 1%. 02:55:21.730 --> 02:55:31.819 - off the cuff sorry we've come you've committed to a hundred thousand for the art for the sculpture and 02:55:31.819 --> 02:55:42.300 - that's broken down by with the artist and then you approved funding for EMB paving which was about $48,000 02:55:42.300 --> 02:55:50.430 - I believe and then this is an additional and I didn't think about it in that first 02:55:50.626 --> 02:55:58.874 - Resolution or the second resolution or I would have run it up then but I guess Maybe the ship is sailed 02:55:58.874 --> 02:56:07.519 - in this case, but I'll be looking at this differently And we say it's 1% and the numbers a hundred thousand. 02:56:07.519 --> 02:56:14.974 - That's a completion of at a hundred thousand and not Just the artist piece and then we've got 02:56:15.586 --> 02:56:23.912 - six other vendors that we gotta pay, and suddenly now we're up to 150,000. That's not what we signed 02:56:23.912 --> 02:56:32.569 - up for. I think that's wise, and I see that as well. In line with that, I would suggest and ask if there 02:56:32.569 --> 02:56:41.142 - would be a way for any 1% for the art project where there would be an addendum with any resolution that 02:56:41.142 --> 02:56:45.182 - has what the 1% is, how it's getting spent down, 02:56:45.506 --> 02:56:51.722 - And so just that it's not kind of buried in the whereas is that it's an actual, you know, budget that 02:56:51.722 --> 02:56:57.998 - would be an addendum to any of these because I think that would just be much more transparent in terms 02:56:57.998 --> 02:57:03.422 - of understanding how the money is being allocated and spent. Thank you for raising that. 02:57:15.138 --> 02:57:23.766 - That's a good question. I know our Assistant Director for the Arts in ESD is looking into maintenance 02:57:23.766 --> 02:57:32.394 - of all pieces that we have. One of our interns just over the summer went out to every piece of public 02:57:32.394 --> 02:57:41.022 - art that we have and did a conditions assessment. It's definitely something that's catching up to us. 02:57:41.346 --> 02:57:49.454 - The maintenance fund has historically been underfunded, so I know she's looking for ways to bolster 02:57:49.454 --> 02:57:57.644 - that. And our 1% for the arts doesn't mandate that we construct physical pieces of art. It just goes 02:57:57.644 --> 02:58:02.590 - to 1% of the arts. And so there's lots of ways you can fund. 02:58:02.754 --> 02:58:09.160 - the arts, not necessarily just physical capital infrastructure. No, I'm just looking at what we have 02:58:09.160 --> 02:58:15.565 - at the present moment in our community. I'm digressing. Excuse me, that's exactly what she's saying, 02:58:15.565 --> 02:58:21.971 - is that there's opportunities potentially in the future to use the 1% for the arts, not to build new 02:58:21.971 --> 02:58:28.440 - art, but to sustain existing. For any allocation for a given project, that some of it be dedicated to 02:58:28.440 --> 02:58:31.294 - a maintenance fund. A maintenance fund, yes. 02:58:31.778 --> 02:58:39.176 - dance performances, anything. I think we've traditionally gone towards capital projects. But you're 02:58:39.176 --> 02:58:46.575 - saying we can use that 1% for maintenance of existing projects. Yes. All right. So the next project 02:58:46.575 --> 02:58:54.491 - comes up. We can say, I'm sorry, your 1% for your building will now go to maintenance of the pre-existing. 02:58:54.491 --> 02:58:59.966 - It will come up during the police station discussion. OK. That works. OK. 02:59:00.930 --> 02:59:10.920 - got a collar on in our community and it has to be maintained and those things are achieved so thank 02:59:10.920 --> 02:59:21.410 - you. Okay so we have now heard for both resolution 2689 and 2690 I will ask for a motion for both unless 02:59:21.410 --> 02:59:29.502 - you choose to separate them. Move approval for resolution 2689 and 2690. Second. 02:59:29.858 --> 02:59:40.136 - We have a first and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes unanimously for both 2689 02:59:40.136 --> 02:59:50.613 - and 2690. Thank you. Okay, that is the end of new business on our agenda this evening. Is there anything 02:59:50.613 --> 02:59:57.598 - further for general discussion? Dinner. You're thinking of something? 02:59:57.730 --> 03:00:05.505 - I'll yield. I'll yield at the given the hour. I'll yield to the next meeting. Oh, we can't wait. Okay, 03:00:05.505 --> 03:00:13.053 - I'll take a motion to adjourn, please. So moved. Okay. Thank you all. We're trying to figure out if 03:00:13.053 --> 03:00:18.110 - this was it's not a record, but it's probably up there. So anyway.