- This meeting will come to order. This is the, I believe now, fourth meeting of the, or the fifth meeting
- of the Transportation Commission for October 2025. Can we please get a roll call? Coppock? Here. Connell?
- Here. Volwin? What? Volwin? Here. Drumme? Here.
- Davis Stasper here We have a quorum will now Read the agenda will have approval of minutes Excuse me.
- We will have reports and communications from commissioners and staff including administrative updates
- update on hundred and eighty day orders fatal crash report report on outdoor dining in the downtown
- corridor and a report on the summit district PUD and improvements in transportation and
- They're in We'll have two cases tci 2510 matlock heights parking restrictions and tci 2511 north walnut
- and blue ridge intersection area improvements We'll go to discussion of topics not on the docket We'll
- go to general public comment on items not on the docket and then we'll adjourn Let's start with the
- approval of minutes. Do we have any minutes to approve? Yes, we have the september 15th 2025 meeting minutes
- We have a motion for approval of minutes. I Move the minutes be approved We have motion in a second
- are there any comments changes or amendments to the minutes from my right From my left Seeing none well,
- let's go to a vote I
- Can we do do we have to do a roll call vote all in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed say nay The
- minutes for September 15th are approved. Let's now go to reports from commissioners. Does any commissioner?
- Would any commissioner like to make a report about anything in particular? Mr. Stossberg Yes, I live
- in the Park Ridge neighborhood and we recently had the ribbon-cutting
- for an updated greenway and traffic calming that goes through there. And I just wanted to highlight
- that as a successful collaboration between the city staff and the residents. The staff came out multiple
- times, listened to feedback, were responsive, and created something that I believe the neighborhood
- is happy with, works well for us, but it also took into account the overall city network and is consistent with
- elements that are consistent with how Greenways are done throughout the neighborhood. So highlighting
- that a success. Thank you Thank you, mr. Sossberg anybody else to my right with a report to my left
- I Just have two items one is in reading the packet for this month I Thought it would be good to just
- point out that anyone who observes our proceedings
- Anyone who has a point to make about transportation in Bloomington at all is strongly encouraged to
- file a you report that is how we're planning to process requests for For or inquiries of any kind and
- anyone is welcome to do it. The trick is that It's not actually called you report on the side. It just
- says report something and
- But the URL is bloomington.in.gov slash you report. So if you are a little Confused by the page you're
- using. It's a generic page for all city reports But this is the procedure through which the Commission
- will entertain any Inquiries that might become the subject of of items on our agenda the other thing
- I wanted to
- call to our attention is that The safe streets for all plan that the city adopted last November is something
- that sort of needs to be tracked And I think it's incumbent upon this Commission as the inheritor of
- the Traffic Commission's obligations to be aware of the plan and to
- Follow along its implementation over the next few years So I wanted to call attention to say sheets
- for all plan And specifically that I think every member of the Commission should be At least keeping
- it in the back of their minds if not actually referring to it once in a while Since that's one of the
- primary Missions of the Commission
- With that, let's now go to reports from staff. Do we have any administrative updates, and who will be
- representing first? Yeah, I believe that'll be me. Okay. Sorry. So, part of the effort in putting together
- the commission has involved trying to improve upon our internal processes for documenting what's going
- on on the staff level in terms of preparing materials and making changes to commission documents over
- time. As part of that effort, I've developed a change log, which I hope will help clarify exactly what
- kinds of decisions are being made at the staff level.
- with respect to changes in formatting and the tracking of cases and the like. This change log is currently
- a draft and I provided two versions of it and sort of attached to the report. The first is sort of like
- an overview where we're sort of providing a summary description of the decision
- giving us Documenting who proposed the decision or made the suggestion Documenting whether or not the
- decision was implemented as part of our ongoing policies and procedures and There's this approval category
- which I'm less okay with but it was part of the template. So here we are Perhaps it will help provide
- some transparency into has who is actually implementing these decisions and
- At the material level The detailed change log which follows is where I'm trying to provide some very
- specific notes It's probably a level of detail that most people Won't Won't be inspired by necessarily
- or appreciate but just in the purposes of clarity this is sort of where we're at the
- The ID number is, all of this is being entered in manually. It is a Google Drive spreadsheet to date.
- But part of this is also sort of like preparing us for an inevitable shift to using another database
- structure for tracking commission activities, the Tyler Technologies EPL system, which I'll be able
- to provide another update at our next meeting for because the contents of that
- Meeting I had with ITS was very recent. I wasn't able to incorporate it into our packet for for this
- month But if you have any questions about my report, I will feel them Any questions on administration
- of the Commission from members Seeing none, thank you for the presentation. Let's go now to an update
- on hundred native the orders I believe that's Andrew Seymour director of engineering
- Seymour hello Good evening, Andrew Seymour City engineer. I'm just wanted to continue my Effort to keep
- the Commission updated on hundred and eighty day orders Since our last meeting three new orders have
- been issued the first two are Hopefully items that are familiar to you that we discussed them at our
- last meeting one dealing with clarifying some on-street parking on North Illinois Street and
- Between 12th and 15th that's been in place now and then we also more recently updated the The time limit
- of limited parking on West 8th Street between Rogers and Fairview from two hours far So both those items
- we discussed at our last meeting Maybe a new thing for the Commission is the third new item, which is
- stop control at the prow and a cuff Road intersection
- This was essentially a result of a new development that's under construction and as a result of that
- development they Essentially turned what was once a curve in a road into a three-leg enter intersection
- and as a result Required putting in a stop sign on the top of the T or the minor intersection so that
- that recently opened up and so we had to do 180-day order to get that in place and
- Beyond those three new ones. I was required to extend three other ones Just quickly one dealt with the
- loading zones adjacent to Kirkwood Avenue on some new loading zones that we implemented And then others
- a result of parking and stop control things in the Hopewell area hopeful East and along 1st Street so
- those have been extended and I'm happy to answer any questions the Commission has and
- Thank you. Mr. Seymour. Are there any questions on 180 orders to my left? To my right Seeing none. Thank
- you for that. Let's move now to the fatal crash report Yeah, I'm gonna quickly try to share my screen
- together a Little presentation Okay, so
- Just wanted to provide this commission a report on a recent fatal crash And I think just to set some
- groundwork for this I've been doing this since late 2021 when the Traffic Commission passed a resolution
- essentially Requesting or directing the the city engineer the director of the department to provide
- a report on all fatal crashes to that commission and
- In my staff report. I want to note that was in their packet I had an error that it said I reported on
- four fatal crashes There were actually five fatal crashes that I provided updates to that traffic Commission
- on since 2021 So just in the spirit of that resolution that really predated the the City Council in
- the city's adoption of resolution 24-07, which is essentially
- Our goal to have zero fatalities and zero serious injuries on the city's roads by 2039 So mentioned
- the safe streets for all action plan and this resolution really led to that or was a part of that process
- so just the spirit of we don't want these crashes but what we want to reflect on them and and Make sure
- the community is aware of them And then you mentioned that the SS for a plan that was adopted
- One of the action items within that plan deals with essentially our procedure for analyzing these and
- providing reports While we're not able to implement all of that action item a component of
- that is essentially me doing this right now To give you that update on this fatal crash Just to help
- in the the context of reviewing fatal crashes I think I did this with the Traffic Commission and I might
- not go into all the details in future meetings, but
- Really wanting to highlight the Federal Highway Administration's safe system approach The idea here
- is that if we really want to reach zero fatalities They developed this this framework to really think
- through things So there are essentially a set of principles that are on the outside of this graphic
- So those really form the the basis of our approach to safety So the idea is our death and serious injuries
- are unacceptable humans make mistakes
- Humans are vulnerable responsibility is shared safety is proactive and redundancy is critical So then
- on the inside of the circle are the the elements? These are the things that are required to make our
- commitment to vision zero happen So those include safe road users safe speeds safe vehicles safe roads
- and post crash care Another graphic that I really like to steal or borrow from Federal Highway Administration is this
- It really essentially captures that no single element can really Create a safe system. It takes them
- all in in pair and in combination But when so when you really combine these it just really reduces your
- risk of having these types of crashes So I think it just does a good job trying to capture that So to
- get to the the fatal crash that that did happen this year
- The crash happened on Thursday, July 3rd just before 4th of July Between the noon and 1 o'clock hour
- in the afternoon. It was a nice day This was an intersection related crash. So it dealt with the intersection
- of Bloomfield and Landmark Avenue it involved a westbound motorcyclist and an eastbound to northbound
- SUV so essentially motorcycle going through
- Through the intersection and then a turning vehicle on to land bark go in the opposite direction the
- motorcycle operator per records was seen essentially driving past cued cars crossing the double yellow
- line In a movement that wouldn't be expected likely as the light was starting to change and and they
- they crashed into the turning SUV You can see that that motorcyclist passed away
- on August 22nd, so not immediate, but was very seriously injured and ultimately passed away over a month
- after the crash. So just to quickly look at the intersection and to focus on what's going here. So this
- is an aerial overview of the intersection. Landbark is the top of the intersection, the north leg. It's
- just a T intersection with a driveway on the south side, and you've got Bloomfield running, I'll call
- it east-west in the area.
- One lane one through lane in each direction with some turn lanes. You also see a Google Street view
- image that is looking west At the intersection. So essentially the the area the motorcyclist was was
- this was their their view As they approach the intersection Bloomfield here is a 40 mile an hour speed
- limit facility The lanes are roughly 10 feet wide the road is in good condition partially because we
- did recently improve this intersection in 2019
- You can see some new curb ramps, crosswalk markings, new signal infrastructure. The intersection geometry
- there, especially on the northwest corner, does look very different as a result of the project as well.
- Bloomfield is the major road here. Just keeping in mind the safety action plan, Bloomfield as a corridor
- is identified as a high-priority corridor. Landmark isn't, but Bloomfield is a high priority.
- The intersection itself is classified as a medium priority intersection Not focusing on the specifics
- of the crash but just looking at the history there Over the last five years there were 17 reported crashes
- at this intersection The majority or the most common crash were rear ends. That's pretty common at busy
- intersections that are signalized there were some turning and angle crashes and
- Of course the one fatal crash and some other injury crashes as well, but mostly property damage only
- We also did observe a pattern of two bicycle crashes essentially to Path users going eastbound Colliding
- or being hit by southbound right-turning vehicles. So those are just things to be aware of
- at that intersection as well. So
- So I think just wanted to provide that update. I'm happy to answer any questions that the Commission
- has Thank you Thank You mr. Seaborg are there questions for mr. Seaborg about fatal crashes mr. Drumme
- For example in this circumstance the
- Motorcycles died several months later. So how do you get identified as a fatal crash? Yeah, we a lot
- of our crash information comes from the police report that is generated by our officers And then as
- there are updates they will typically update those logs and I've got a staff that that track that So
- sometimes like after a crash a common thing might be or serious crashes They'll do like blood alcohol
- testing and that isn't immediately known. So update the records in the future And so we're just tracking
- that over time
- Further questions from my right. Mr. Flaherty Thank you the past resolution from the Traffic Commission
- and The City Engineers practice with respect to fatal crashes had been on my mind as we transition to
- the Transportation Commission So having not even brought it up I appreciate That you brought it to us
- and I assume then that's your intent is to continue that process with this Commission it is yes and
- Just on that, I know one of the, I don't know if you were gonna go here or not, but that resolution
- asked for me to specifically look at a few elements of these crashes. Certainly open to discussing that
- type of thing with this commission if there's interest. Some of those questions, as I went through it
- over the years, were just hard to define, like how broad or how big do you think? But anyways, I don't
- know if that's where you're going or not, but. Maybe, yeah.
- Question is whether or not we should adopt a similar resolution formally So it's actually this Commission
- as opposed to just adopting a past practice might help for the sake of continuity Establishing a record
- of our own of why we want to hear about this That might be an opportunity to make some adjustments as
- well and reference the safe streets for all action plan Which did not exist at that time? So that might
- yeah provide an occasion to revisit some of those questions about scope and what it is. We'd like to
- hear about When we do hear these reports Would you be open to that?
- Yeah, absolutely I Without it. I'd want to give reports like this but certainly opens to further dialogue
- and that resolution was generated by a commissioner and Happy to work with this commission or members
- of it to draft something going forward. Okay. Thank you. I think it's safe to say that Barring any action
- otherwise that we've inherited the work of all three commissions and that whatever resolutions they
- had active we have an obligation to follow till we
- them so it might be good to have an administrative meeting where we check in with practices you were
- accustomed to with the other commissions and Just you know, then we can put on the agenda items that
- really should be Declarations of this new commission. So if that's okay with staff, they're happy to
- meet offline and do that Further questions from mr. Seabor on the fatal crash report to my left. I
- I got one I think maybe two How many of the fatalities that have happened since 2021 Involved pedestrians
- as opposed to drivers or passengers of cars So there were five now six fatal crashes since I've been
- going through this I mean this decade basically There was one
- One pedestrian that it's coming off the top of my mind and one scooter rider off the top of my mind
- I seem to recall though that there were no fewer than three fatalities on East 3rd Street in the past
- five years that involved pedestrians one was Hit by a bus at the bus stop one was hit by an SUV and
- third in Washington and one was hit at the corner of third and Indiana is that not right?
- Those must those were prior to the Traffic Commission's resolution And I think when I was not a city
- employee, so I can't speak to those because I thought they were all since 2021 so Maybe I'll have to
- go back and check the the dates but yeah, so okay, but of the ones you're familiar with pedestrians
- were involved in two if you consider a scooter, yeah a pedestrian, yes a non non car driver or passenger and
- Was one of the people involved in the accident and the crash rather Correct. Okay The other question
- is I think last meeting we talked about And I think it was mentioned in the minutes the the county level
- crash dashboard is that is that site up Yes, it is and is it linked on the Transportation Commission webpage
- It will be by the end of the meeting if it's not Okay, that's great Last question I have is in the entire
- experience that anybody on staff has had working for the city Do we know of any crashes that involve?
- something that Other than an automobile have there been any fatalities or injuries caused by bicyclists
- or scooter riders? against other
- Bicyclist scooter riders or pedestrians that you know of It's a tricky question to answer because it
- gets into defining terms and what is a fatal crash Going by memory, which is always a risky thing to
- do. I think most crashes that are officially Would show up in these databases involve a vehicle by nature
- So I don't think if it involved
- Scooter crashing into a scooter that that would pop up in this data set Okay, so you're saying that
- a scooter or a bicycle caused injury would not even show up in transportation databases, I would want
- to verify but my My recollection is that involves an automobile and that is yeah Interesting. All right.
- That's a question. I'm gonna want to follow up with in the future All right. Thank you Any other questions
- or comments mr. Stossberg?
- I looked for weird crashes in the data too. And I did find a crash that involved a pedestrian and deer
- But I don't think the pedestrian crashed into the deer. I think maybe somehow a car managed to hit them
- both at the same time Huh, so I don't know. That's an interesting one. Yeah Thanks for that. Thanks
- for the report. Mr. Seaborn. Absolutely Let's move on now to a report on outdoor dining in the downtown
- corridor. Who's here to present? I believe I see miss Modinger
- Good evening commissioners. I'm Chas Moddinger special projects manager in the economic and development
- department economic and sustainable development department So I'm here to provide a brief update on
- the 2025 outdoor dining program So earlier this year City Council adopted ordinance 2005-02 to establish
- a reoccurring seasonal outdoor dining program
- This ordinance repealed and replaced the previous version reinstating both the parklet and Kirkwood
- Avenue conversion It suspends certain provisions of the Bloomington municipal code to facilitate the
- use of public right-of-way for outdoor seating This the conversion affects East Kirkwood Avenue blocks
- 100 to 500 Each year the program's guidelines are reviewed and approved by the Board of Public Works
- for 2025 the outer
- The outdoor dining season runs April 4th to November 10th. The Parklet participants are Orbit Room,
- Metalworks, which is now closed, Crazy Horse, and Buffalooies. The Kirkwood participants are Uptown
- Cafe, Farm, Village Deli, Nick's English Hut, and Lenny's Brew Pub. So the update, the 2025 program
- has experienced mixed results.
- Under this new ordinance, blocks 100 through 500 on East Kirkwood were closed to vehicular traffic during
- the program period, regardless of whether participating businesses utilized outdoor dining. The intent
- was to encourage community use and street activation. However, the anticipated engagement has been limited
- due to issues such as understaffing, lack of necessary budget, and policy issues.
- In addition, it soon became clear that the 200 block needed to remain open for the season due to access
- concerns from nearby first Christian Church whose alleyway serves as a primary entry and parking area
- and cannot be accessed when the block is closed. The 100 block only had a half closure due to similar
- issues with an alleyway and accessibility.
- So Public Works, which oversees special event implementation of Kirkland, has faced challenges managing
- these closures due to limited capacity. It's basically a lot of work for them. In particular, the closure
- of the 300 block where no businesses participated in outdoor dining was widely viewed by community members
- and business owners as underutilized and visually unappealing based on ongoing and anecdotal feedback.
- Following the Hoops event on October 2nd, this block was reopened to traffic.
- There is also consideration to public safety when viewing the Kirkwood conversion in this manner The
- parklet component of the program saw improvements this year Several businesses invested in raised platform
- decks that align with the sidewalk enhancing accessibility and aesthetics Staff anticipates the program
- guidelines to be updated for 2026 to require all parklets to have these raised platforms one participating
- business closed during the season which uncovered a series of issues that are
- Not currently outlined in the ordinance relating to abandoned property and communications Prior to the
- start of this season staff identified and installed six additional accessible parking spaces in proximity
- to the kirkwood corridor In response to frequent reports of short-term parking in front of the bollards
- Partially blocking lanes of traffic staff also installed two loading zones on both dunn street and washington
- street city staff
- Are currently collecting updated feedback from both business owners and the public to help inform future
- program adjustments The Planning Department will also conduct a Kirkwood corridor study in 2027. So
- thank you I welcome your questions or feedback and just so you know up there is a map of the program
- this year you can see the blocks that are closed and
- We made this to also show where accessible parking is and to give the public an idea on where they can
- go where the parking garages are And the new loading zones and whatnot. So, thank you Thank you, miss
- moniker are there questions from commissioners to my right Mr. Flaherty, thank you. Thank you for the
- report. Um, I
- Maybe not a question from his funding or actually there was a reference at the end of your report about
- 2027 planned corridor study on Kirkwood I don't want to ask about the scope of that study what stretch
- of Kirkwood as well as what is like the The focus like I'm recalling in particular that the transportation
- plan calls for a design charrette and similar process to explore shared street design of Kirkwood I
- think roughly between walnut and Indiana, but maybe that would vary some in
- Wonder if Kirkwood also has a corridor study slated that might be longer and more like related to safety
- versus design So I'm curious even though those are related Curious about that and how that might interact
- with this program also. Yeah, there will be more information coming about that I don't have all the
- particulars. It's not in our department. I don't know if Ryan wants to answer it, but I'm gonna pass
- the mic to him. I
- Yeah, you nailed it. There will be a direct design shred style corridor study will also it'll be Triggered
- by the safe streets it roads for all safety action plan. So it will incorporate that I expect it will
- go all the way up to the beeline But that it were open to negotiation on that but certainly the stretch
- from walnut to Indiana and Yes, it'll focus both on design and safety improvements. So it'll be slightly
- unique for
- In that regard from other quarter studies you have seen or will see Thank you Thank You mr. Flaherty
- questions for miss moniker to my left Okay, thank you for the report I guess the only question I would
- have is Do you already know what recommendations staff will make for next year Will the 300 block?
- Stay open next year. Do you think? We Yeah, we're not ready. We're still looking into it right now.
- Some things have come up like with public public safety So hopefully we will know the answer soon, but
- we're still very much getting feedback about About that and I know that in the news you talked about
- how you kept that block closed until after the Hoosier hoops event on October 2nd How many other events?
- I mean, I know that taste of Bloomington used that block How many other events took advantage actually
- took advantage of that closed space this year? I would have to double-check with public works, but I
- believe some of the festivals did but And what there's like five big ones per year. I would have to
- check not that many so for instance the public library was supposed to do a dirt fest on that block
- and I think
- June or July that didn't end up happening because it was too sunny on the block and they ended up doing
- it on their own property so I was like Smaller activation events that utilize the block. I don't really
- think there were any except for yeah, I think some of the larger festivals like maybe Handmade market
- or something or like pride used used the block. Is it is it? onerous to expect public works to just
- close the block for an event like is that hard and
- Could the could the block just be closed right before and after an event and is open at the rest of
- the time Yeah, it depends on like special events and they have to go through a process to get that.
- Okay, but Yeah, so the for public works to do it they have to approve the Board of Public Works and
- staff goes through the special events applications and so if they would need to so I guess that the
- block was closed this year until recently so
- But yeah, normally what they would do it have to be approved it have to the organizer would have to
- Do all the right steps to make sure everything's safe and legal and then yeah board of the public works
- crew would close the block It's just that council has approved the closure of the entirety of the street
- during the season Like that might be one less step I mean it they shouldn't have to get you know permission
- from public works to close the block and
- It's already supposed to be closed. Yeah, so just some of what we saw this year in the memo I briefly
- mentioned it why activation didn't happen. It's it's staff and money and also policy issues So I kind
- of hinted at that but yeah, it is a little difficult for people to potentially activate the block So
- that's something that would need to be looked at There are Jane Cooper Smith director of economic and
- sustainable development. Thanks. Nice to see everyone I think that
- I've completely lost my train of thought now There are requirements for that that need to be demonstrated
- via the application process like insurance safety plans trash plans So they everyone will continue to
- have to go through a thorough Use of the public right-of-way process. I think miss Moddinger's presentation
- is more just an overview We want the transportation to be familiar with what has happened so far and
- where the the program is right now and we're committed to
- You know implementing it To our best ability and making sure next year that we have really activated
- spaces. So I think that's kind of why you're driving at that point Yeah, you know, I'm just curious
- as to what if any conclusions you've come to so far. That's all Yeah, so thank you. We appreciate the
- feedback Any last questions comments, thanks again for the report. Yeah. Thank you. I
- Let's move on now to the final report listed here the summit district PUD and improvements to transportation
- within it Andrew Seaborg Thanks Yeah, I just wanted to take this opportunity to provide the Transportation
- Commission an update on a major development that was approved ultimately by City Council last May I
- was in the news. I'm sure you guys are familiar with it, but it's called the summit district It's in
- the southwest corner of the city
- Pulling up a map here. You can see it Bloomfield Road again is that diagonal running road on the north
- side Weamer is a major north-south road that just is immediately west of this development site and that
- development site is generally bound by the dashed blue in this map and Tap is further to the south
- But this development is potentially going to be really large. It was approved to be up to it's about
- 140 acres It could include up to four thousand two hundred and fifty new housing units some commercial
- space in a hotel It's expected to take a number of years for this development site to be built
- But just as a part of the development process and approval process for this project the development
- team did prepare a traffic impact analysis that essentially studied The amount of traffic that a development
- of this size would create and the impact it would have to to the city's transportation system And so
- in your packet, there's the official traffic study and then a supplemental memo that went along with
- those The the timing of these were not
- They really weren't done being reviewed done being developed At the time this was all approved by the
- City Council And so there was a condition that essentially said the developers required to work with
- the city on an MOU to outline off-site transportation improvements that would that would be needed And
- so this is just my effort wanting to share some of this information with this Commission and
- Essentially to summarize there's a series of eight transportation improvements that that were really
- zeroing in on The details of what those improvements are and their exact timing are very much still
- in flux but trying to Try to prioritize them at least and in the memo I mentioned that maybe the first
- improvement that we would see is dealing with the single-lane culvert crossing on Wimmer Road and
- May or may not be needed depending on how quickly the next phase of improvements are built So the the
- next phase of things that we're really looking at is essentially an extension of vanguard way I guess
- you can see it on one map. It's hard with it with the text on another but Weimar Road
- Essentially runs through a floodplain on the southern half of it the city's transportation plan calls
- a project to build a new connection I'm identified in that red line furthest west here. So essentially
- rerouting Wimmer Road into what is Vanguard Parkway and then the vision is that Wimmer Road that is
- no longer used for automobiles could become a trail type facility and
- And then along with that new realignment and there's also needed improvements identified essentially
- at each end of that new Weimar Road Vanguard Parkway facility. So at the south end at TAP And then at
- the north end at the Bloomfield and Weimar Road intersection So those are sort of the first larger bucket
- of improvements that that we'd likely Be seeing to support this development but also to support the
- community and it implements things that are in the transportation plan
- The next sort of batch of priority projects would be and these are all on the map There's some some
- dots trying to illustrate them, but it's for intersection improvements One is the Bloomfield Road Allen
- Road Street intersection Another is a Bloomfield Road in the second street where it sort of transitions
- there at Adams and then
- Wimmer Road and Sudbury Drive, that's probably the most defined scope that's essentially adding a left
- turn lane on Wimmer Road and then on the opposite side because we would be seeing more traffic on Sudbury
- Drive and then Adams Street and Allen Street intersection improvements as well. So those are the focus
- areas that we're really looking at I don't know the result but I know what today it's the City's
- Redevelopment Commission meeting they were starting to talk about
- Potentially seeing if the RDC would be willing to earmark some funds to start the design of some of
- these things so I Think that's what I wanted to share and I know it was really high-level and quick
- I'm happy to answer any questions that the Commission has at this time as these projects move forward
- I would certainly expect more more details and more information at this point. It's just a status update
- on what we're looking at
- Thank you for the presentation. Are there questions for it commissioners on my left? Mr. Coppock Andrew
- so it happened Vanguard, I guess is that going to be a roundabout in there then as a proximity to this
- intersection with signal? Yeah, I think we I think we'd be looking at options at many of these intersections
- So Tappan and Vanguard we would look at a roundabout. We'd also look at a signal I think many years
- ago the city was looking at doing a roundabout there and there is a
- More right away because that was a part of the plan. So I think that's a very real possibility at that
- intersection Thanks Questions from my left My right Mr. Flaherty I think the previous questions sort
- of illustrated what I was going to ask about but I assume these are all essentially projections based
- on study, but in each case would be subject to
- Analysis to justify an improvement like this isn't a plan for like we're going to do these things because
- we anticipate X rather It's like see how the development unfolds when justified We'll look at these
- particular anticipated projects or other needs and then move forward. Yeah, I think there's there really
- is some phasing here I think that those earlier improvements to Vanguard and either end are some people
- would feel are very needed today from a safety perspective and and just
- Part of the transportation plan those further ones out I think are further out and more subjective to
- what things happen. Thank you. Yep for the questions I wanted to ask about Vanguard Parkway I'm looking
- at page oh four seven in the packet, which is a map this map but Depicted by the consultant
- Is vanguard park? We're gonna get built by the developer or by the city. I Think at this point, we're
- just saying it's a facility that we want to see built how and when and those details are to be worked
- out because I also see that there's quite a few roads we built I mean the yeah, that's the page the
- Vanguard park we've read on this map, but the internal roads that would be extended Sudbury and Adams are beige
- And so I wonder if those designate ones that the developer will build I think conceptually the the beige
- ones we're seeing here are more like Internal to the development and I'd say much more likely the developer
- would be building some of these off-site things I think I would assume the city will be building because
- they are on city assets They're not the developer doesn't own the adjacent property. But what is the
- funding mechanism and the partnership there is to be determined and
- I just didn't know as if as a condition of the PUD it involved them because we've had other PUDs that
- involved off-site transportation improvements and thinking of 19th Street and the big developments over
- there That one developer funded an actual sidewalk all the way well past the development. So Is it has
- that already been decided? Do you know I think the the details of the
- Funding and the partnership I think are still just on going I think from from at least my perspective
- and I think the Commission's is Identifying what improvements are needed and by when so we're not playing
- catch-up Did I answer your question I think you did The other question I have is about the nature of
- the internal grid such as it is. It doesn't seem like much of a grid And I'm wondering do they know yet?
- Like are they gonna build any streets that are not marked on this map? However small yeah this this
- map actually is we're looking looks pretty silly to me and it is different than what's the Plan Commission
- and City Council approved, but there are additional streets I think the main thing here I want to highlight is that
- Adam Street would connect that's a very meaningful connection to the community and to this development
- and that would connect to Sudbury Drive as well So those are required is because they're a part of the
- transportation plan and and would serve the development and the community at large because I'm a little
- concerned about the relative lack of grid that I see here that I'm anticipating that it's not going
- to be a particularly, you know, like just one way in and out and
- So with the number of people who are planning to make their homes here I'm wondering if how traffic
- is going to be as a result. Yeah, I think these are these are the major roads I think there are some
- environmental features and other limitations that limit how much Additional connections can be made
- very good. Thank you. Any further questions from commissioners? Seeing none. Thank you for the report.
- Thank you. We'll now move on to cases of
- We have two transportation inquiries on the agenda Shall we start with TCI 2510 a question for staff.
- Do these need to be introduced? Or can they just be we just begin presenting them You can just go. Yeah.
- Okay. Let's start with TCI 2510 parking restrictions in Matlock Heights who is here to present a
- Caleb Throckmorton the Malak Heights Association Neighborhood Association president I don't know how
- specific you want me to be but we are just asking for Half of our neighborhood already has no parking
- this side on all of the streets, but the other half does not With the success of the athletic team there
- you can see the photos Our neighborhood just gets inundated with
- cars parking and then they get stuck the fire department came and saw and Said that we should have the
- no parking signs on one one side of the street So we are requesting that on East Glyndora North Barbara
- North, France North Laverne and East Gilbert So I know we did this last year so
- This is just the second time. Well, you did this in front of the and the predecessor commission Yeah,
- this is a new commission. So we're happy to entertain the question Does that complete your Yeah, that's
- essentially all we're asking. Yeah, okay Let's hear a report from staff For transportation inquiries,
- we could try to keep it brief to let them know
- Inquire could ask both of you to use your microphone to get closer. Yes Sorry about that Okay, so we
- try to keep it brief for staff. We just do some background information we received planning
- and transportation and public works both received a number of you reports and other reports from this
- neighborhood and
- So we we've addressed it to the best of our abilities in the short term, but we have not come up with
- a long-term solution So that's what we're kind of asking this body to look at you can see that public
- works kind of came up with a short-term solution of placing temporary signage and doing the best to
- enforce that they could there but again, that's not a long-term solution so
- That is why this is coming back from the Parking Commission now to the Transportation Commission In
- hopes that we figure something out there is For transportation inquiries, this is our first one. Sorry
- So there are a couple of actions that you can take. I just want to make note of that before you Dive
- into discussion, but you can determine that no further action is warranted at this time You can request
- that staff and or the inquirer
- Find additional information or do an additional study or you can request that a future petition or resolution
- addressing the issues raised Be placed on a subsequent agenda. So just wanted to highlight those since
- this is new to us Okay, so the decision before us is to either Recommend that the neighborhood come
- with a petition that that we Bring a resolution or that
- What was the third option? Do nothing or we But we can also request additional study or information
- All right, or do nothing. So with that let's open the the floor to questions from commissioners for
- Matlock Heights On my right Mr. Connell So close to the mic
- Bringing additional information would that include a staff recommendation? Yeah, if we were to to Elevate
- this it would require staff to prepare a resolution Yeah, yeah Okay on my left mr. Coppock or ms. Davis I
- Is this just a problem on game days? Yes current currently it has just been a game day issue We do have
- people parking there for other sporting events basketball games and graduation, but that's I Mean, it's
- not 55,000 people like the football games are so yeah Okay, thanks Mr. Coppock so what's
- Say the normal parking on there. Do people Do the residents use the street? Yes, it's 1950s neighborhood.
- So everybody's got pretty good driveways most have garages But yes people do residents do park on the
- street like people visiting residents and stuff like that that I did originally inquire about just game
- day only and
- No parking game day only signs on this side. So I don't know if that's still a possibility or not Further
- question, mr. Coppock Mr. Flaherty Thank you One question is just how how it's gone with the temporary
- Measures that were referenced is that working effectively something that we might consider making permanent
- via signage
- How's it gone? Yes, so Currently people respect have been respecting the signs because we did do this
- last year to you after the homecoming game last year and People were parking then just on the correct
- side of the streets We have had issues of people parking the wrong direction on that side of the streets
- or under stop signs stuff like that But at least they have been respecting the those orange Temporary
- no parking signs
- Okay, so is your You mentioned when you came before the Parking Commission one one option that was discussed
- or your recommendation at the time Was to make essentially those signs permanent. No game day parking
- this side of the street Is do you have a preference or do your neighbors have a preference that you
- could speak to between that and a permanent? No parking on you know one side of these various streets.
- Yeah, they certainly do Prefer just for the game day
- Signs because the the part like getting permanent no game name signs rather because right now
- the neighborhood is actually Taking in and putting out these signs that the city gave us The staff have
- perspective on how the temporary measures have gone and Whether or not the best option is to just simply
- make that permanent Or you're not ready for a recommendation yet. That's okay. It can be another meaning.
- I was just curious. I
- Yes, I don't believe we've had a final verdict from public works on how successful those have been yet
- Okay. Thank you Mr. Drummey, I Guess I'm Confused or I think I understand your presentation, but does
- the neighborhood from your perspective Perf you want to move away from the temporary system you have
- now and move to something more permanent. Is that the request? Yes. Yeah right now we have the
- Orange temporary signs from the city, but every Whatever it is. It's 24 hours before the game day game
- time The neighbors are having to put them out Right now. We're actually just doing it the neighborhood
- board So we are requesting permanent ones on those side of the streets Thank you One question I have is
- Is it a matter of cost is it is is cost one reason why? The administration might be reluctant to put
- permanent signs out No costs as far as I understand it public works is concern is not cost it is enforcement
- this is outside of their traditional enforcement zone and so that Puts the burdens more on the police
- department, which Obviously they're busy on game days. So that's
- I believe a large chunk. They're not here to back me up on that claim, but we'll make sure they're here
- for a future item Now I remember reading in the report that When you all have seen a violation in the
- neighborhood you were instructed to call 911 How has that gone for the neighborhood? Well, we haven't
- had to do so since we were
- Now that we have these signs, like I said, I was gonna say So half of our neighborhood does already
- have the permanent signs And there has the what sign has the permanent no parking this side signs. So
- half of our neighborhood is already covered It's just the north half that doesn't have it and so people
- respect those signs like I know enforcement is an issue but if if the signs are there it's less likely
- that the people are going to be parking and
- Where they shouldn't be and and that's what we've seen even with the the temporary signs that people
- aren't parking in front of them So it has helped for sure Thank you. Any further questions second round?
- To my left To my right. Mr. Flaherty Thank you So if half the neighborhood already has
- Permanent no parking this side of the street signs. I would assume that's also outside the range of
- typical public works parking enforcement rounds Yes, that's correct. Okay. Thank you I've got one more
- question if there's nobody else One argument I've always made for parking on one or both sides of the
- street is that it narrows the street effectively and slows traffic down
- Couldn't it be seen as a benefit to have cars on the street? Can you talk a little bit about? Why it's
- an inconvenience or worse I'm sorry. I don't understand it. In other words the mere presence of parked
- cars in the street could serve to slow traffic down on the street What do you say to that?
- We our neighborhood doesn't really have any
- Other than East Glendora straight through streets So we don't really have Like a speed problem we do
- on undone but that's yeah Yeah, so the main issue is when they are parked on both sides The emergency
- services vehicles couldn't get through and on Barbara during the homecoming game last year
- There was a truck with a travel trailer that just had to park in the middle of the street because it
- couldn't There it is right there. He couldn't back up or back or go forward. He just got stuck. So he
- just stopped It actually did impede the right-of-way altogether. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the street was closed
- for the game and got it. So, okay. Thank you All right, well There are no other questions in this round
- we can go to public comment and
- the inquiry Let's go to public comment If you are going to speak to this issue, you can have a seat
- sir. Yeah Please sign in before I recognize you and you'll be limited to three minutes per turn We're
- not doing direct dialogue or questions would simply take your comment Please keep your comments respectful.
- If you are on zoom You may use the raise hand function to be called on to speak Is there anyone who
- would like to speak?
- this inquiry Is there anybody online you so far that you see staff Just to repeat that if you are online
- and would like to speak to this inquiry, please raise your hand and I will call on you
- Not seeing anyone online Iris is passing out a letter that we received just before the meeting started
- So it was not included in the packet. Is there anyone in chambers who would like to speak to this issue
- this inquiry? TCI 2510 and Matlock Heights Last call for public comment. We have a we have a taker,
- please sign in Just on this paper here
- State your name and speak directly into the mic So I'm Becky Throckmorton I also live in Matlock Heights
- and we'll just say since we had the temporary signs approved last year and then the games that we've
- had them for this year
- Residents in the neighborhood have all come and personally express their gratitude for it. I do know
- that there was a safety issue That was noticed by the police chief or the I'm sorry the fire marshal
- Where they noted as well that it was a major concern and they're actually the ones who had started The
- attention that we needed to have this put up as permanent signs and
- And so just wanted to express the neighbors appreciation for having the temporary signs and I think
- the need if the football team Particularly continues to do as well as I've done now the need to have
- those signs just for safety for public coming for game days but also for the residents living in the
- neighborhood and any sort of Emergency vehicle that may need to get in and out of the streets.
- So Thank you. Thank you any further public comment on
- TCI 25 10 Last call Seeing none we'll come back to the Commission for further questions any second round
- of questions I Do have one question for the neighborhood If you don't come on up, yeah IU
- Used to be terrible at football terrible. I Don't think that stopped people from coming to the games,
- but it wasn't in quite the same numbers Is this unique to I use? Record-breaking run the past two years
- or has this always been a problem. That's only being exacerbated by their run so it has been a problem
- in the past, but usually for
- two games when Ohio State comes or when Michigan comes. They travel. Illinois traveled really well this
- year. And so whenever a good team comes, it was a problem. But obviously, with IU being better, I mean,
- they're sold out now. It wasn't frequently enough to make a difference, but now it's every game. Now
- it's every game, yeah. And I do know that they've already started talking about additional overhang
- on the stadium,
- That's ten or fifteen thousand more people. So yeah, yeah, so it's With no added parking so Heard and
- understood. Thank you question from mr. Stossberg. Yeah, I just want to clarify permanent. Are you talking
- about permanently? installed like out on the street or just higher quality signs that you can put out
- on game day and and take back Oh the side the permanent signs like we have on the other side of the
- neighborhood and
- Permanent no parking signs. Yeah, so they're out on a post. They're there all the time. No parking game
- day Yeah, yes The current ones on the other side of the neighborhood are no parking This site all the
- time. It's not they don't say game day. Okay Okay, if there are no other questions then we now go to
- Debate and the three actions three options that we have are to say that
- further actions warranted at this time that we should have additional study or information that we make
- that as a request from the Commission or that we request that Either a petition from the neighborhood
- or a resolution from a commissioner be placed on a future agenda of the Commission so as you speak to
- the issue, please state which action if any you would prefer because we I
- I've done a simple. Yes. No, mr. Roebling just a quick clarification The petition would come from staff
- in this case. We would write it up to match whatever title 15 or otherwise change with Alongside the
- neighborhood. We would not ask the neighborhood to write it right But I mean while you would create
- the petition it would be initiated by an outside entity Sure. Yes. Sorry. Thank you. Okay, just trying
- to clarify it. Okay with that Are there any comments?
- commissioners to my right Mr. Connell Yeah, I think I would like to see staff introduce for a future
- meeting a Recommendation Or what are we calling it a petition petition a petition to have the permanent
- no parking signs installed in the area consistent with the ones that are already in
- Place and that would be my recommendation Thank You mr. Connell Mr. Flaherty I think I was the same
- of the same mind Maybe a clarifying question or two as well for staff So petition would be staff brought
- and a resolution would be commissioner Sponsored or broad is that the only distinction are they used
- for different purposes? I
- Those are different purposes the petition in this case would always be staff brought it would be something
- That could be initiated by someone else. But for this it would always be a petition that comes through
- staff rather than a resolution, which is can come from outside but Often yeah, or it can come
- from commissioners or staff, but doesn't necessarily Include what is currently and used to be in title 50
- Okay, does does a for us to Direct staff to prepare a petition Is that appropriate regardless of what
- staff thinks or is that only? Should only be done when staff is in agreement that something is warranted
- I was thinking if the staffs in disagreement that maybe a resolution is actually what's appropriate
- Great question. Yes in that case you could do a resolution it but in most cases we are going to try
- to get in a place where staff is
- Proposing a petition that we can support. We wouldn't try to leave it devoid of a resolution Not that
- word resolution, but a solution Thank you. And then also could this be accomplished through 180-day
- order? And or as related follow-up if we passed a petition Advising this the next step would be for
- a title for title 15
- Maybe 12 amendment At the council, is that right City Council? Yes, you have all the steps right we
- could do a 180-day order if there was enough support here and the city engineer Decided that that was
- appropriate. We could do that and then this would come back as a petition and then it would go on to
- Council as a title 15 amendment. Okay. Thank you to my left
- Start with mr. Stossberg then Davis I support that plan one areas enforcement it sounds like the the
- People who come to see the games are largely compliant on the one hand and then that this is not a It's
- a relatively infrequent Thing that comes up. It's more frequent now, but it might not be always that
- be that way. So Seems like enforcement might be sufficiently good
- Ms. Davis I'm not sufficiently up on the football schedule to know how much longer this is going to
- go on But is there anything? this season What would get the neighborhood relief? Most quickly Or it
- won't happen this season I the neighborhood can confirm mr. Thokman can confirm but public works has
- given them those temporary signs and I believe those are working and Will continue to work through the
- remainder of the season. We're aiming for a next year solution permanently Mr. Coppock Yeah, I would
- agree with what's previously been said about permanent signings to match the rest of the neighborhood
- 180-day order if necessary So Jimmy did you have anything no, I think it's a good idea and agree with
- that it should be done. Okay, I
- Well where this is the first time we're Doing a so-called inquiry. This is a new commission. We've got
- a new process for handling requests like this and it's in my experience the the most formalized way
- that a member of the public has ever been able to Petition a commission to take formal action. So I
- have to say that I'm in agreement with my colleagues after listening to the case presented
- I mean no one should be no one can be more shocked than me that To say that I believe that this will
- never not be a problem from no one IU has Left some kind of a broom or cross some kind of a Rubicon.
- I don't know how you would characterize it, but What's that? difference to the different dimension and
- This problem is not going to go away
- Now one thing that I have idly wondered about is should matlock Heights consider an actual Neighborhood
- parking zone, but it seems like they've made a case that it just doesn't rise to that level that The
- signage they request is a reasonable request And if it's not a matter of of cost Which doesn't seem
- like it is That it really is a good idea for us to at least take up as a petition and
- So with that does someone want to make a recommendation or if there's any other further comment Don't
- want to preclude any if not make a recommendation as to what action we should vote on Make a motion
- I should say mr. Flaherty I Move that staff prepare a petition that makes permanent the emergency no
- parking on gameday signs currently being utilized on an interim basis in Matlock Heights and
- Further that the city engineer initiated 180-day order to accomplish the same if he finds it prudent.
- Is there a second second? We have a second for mr. Connell If there's no other comment, oh, mr. Drummond
- said you have one comment Y'all we need to get closer to the mic. I think people need to hear you did
- your proposal I was it consistent with the other signs in the neighborhood. Could you said on game days
- only? whereas I the rest of the neighborhood is no parking this side and
- Monday through Sunday and it seems to me I'd be more in favor of uniformity then then game day only
- one part I don't imagine it's ever gonna be an issue, but it just seems like Is there a reason to make
- a distinction distinction and was that intentional mr. Flint 30? It was intentional good question my
- through the questions for the petitioner and or the member of the neighborhood bringing the request
- I thought their their desire was to have the emergency, you know the no game day only on the additional
- on the new signage that matches what's being done now as opposed to Monday to Friday or Monday to Sunday
- all times So it was in line with what the neighborhood is recommending. I believe But it's a good a
- good question. I don't know if Staff has any concerns that they want to share about inconsistency among
- a set of signs in the neighborhood with respect to No parking signs for one side of the street
- Andrew seabor city engineer. I think it's a good question one that I think I'd want to personally Consider
- more and engage with our other city departments that aren't here tonight And I guess I also just wanted
- to share an opinion that certainly open to doing 180-day order for this but I think my preference would
- be to bring this back with additional information to this commission because there are some some fundamental
- questions of things like which side of the streets and
- And and the question that we're talking about right now. So I think just I would like that guidance
- knowing we have a near-term fix for this season I don't think we're in a rush, but maybe after the next
- meeting being more open and comfortable with moving forward in that direction I Could consider withdrawing
- the motion and making something less prescriptive or you know, I'm flexible I think this is our first
- time doing this. So let's just work through a little bit
- This is going to do is trigger and a formal petition the higher level thing I can already see that during
- the discussion that petition we're going to ask a lot of these questions And meanwhile staff will have
- time to go over the details that they would prefer all we're doing now is saying we do think that this
- case rises to the level of formal scrutiny and
- Formal petition and so because I already have some questions about well, I mean I like game day because
- Yes, not as many people attend basketball games, but it still might be an issue during basketball games
- We might find another word so that it even includes graduation But it's clear that there's you know
- Stadium events or any kind of event in the stadium complex might be the the right words to do we have
- to figure it out We don't have to figure it out now
- Okay, we just know we have to figure out that we think we it should become come back to us So I think
- let's not worry too much about the detail but if you want to reword your Your motion, this would be
- a good time to do it Otherwise, let's just take a vote on it and you got further comments on the motion
- So if knowledge just it's it doesn't matter I don't think I
- my left Seeing none, let's have a roll call vote on TCI 25 10 recommendation to bring it as a future
- petition Bowlin, yes Drummy. Yes Flaherty. Yes Davis. Yes Stossberg. Yes Coppock. Yes, Connell. Yes
- That passes seven to zero
- Thank you all for the presentation and let's move on now to TCI 25 11 This is a request from the Blue
- Ridge neighborhood for intersection improvements at Blue Ridge and North walnut who is here to present
- this item Have James Ferguson online You should be unable to unmute here in just a second. Very good.
- Mr. Ferguson, please start as soon as you're ready. I
- Okay, can you hear me? Yes, we can Good. Hello and good evening. My name is James Ferguson. I am Here
- representing Petition which was presented to the old Traffic Commission last year which is representing
- I think close to 150 Signatures at this point We are requesting that the city
- make some improvements to the intersection of Blue Ridge Drive or East Blue Ridge Drive and North Walnut
- Street. The situation is a long-standing one. The traffic at this intersection on North Walnut Street
- has been consistently
- high speeds and even reckless at points. But it's been made much worse since the advent of interstate
- 69. We have traffic moving at excessive speeds coming up the hill. I've personally clocked them at 60
- miles an hour, which is just insane for that area. The
- The traffic has become quite aggressive and reckless going in both directions There There are there
- have been accidents I filed with the city and I believe the city should have on file police reports
- accident reports from the five years prior to 2024 and
- I'm sure the Commission is probably better capable of getting more information on on the long-standing
- part of this but That was turned in last year with the original petition and then last month at this
- Commission's meeting I turned in the most current version of the petition itself So part of what's going
- on is that
- coming out of Blue Ridge addition, the sight lines on North Walnut from our exit are quite bad.
- On one side, you're looking uphill, and on the other side, you're looking downhill with very limited
- visibility. And again, with the speeds that we are seeing people driving on this section of
- North Walnut, it makes it extremely dangerous to attempt to make a turn from our addition onto North
- Walnut Street, especially a left turn, which is having to cross both lanes of traffic. Now, I will,
- I wanna mention that planning and engineering, because they're doing resurfacing, have included
- part of our request for turn lanes to be added to the section of North Walnut Street. Although we don't
- feel that just the addition of the turn lanes will be sufficient to address the actual conditions that
- exist here. And those being the speeds and the recklessness of the traffic
- Going north and south on North Walnut Street Therefore we have requested and are requesting and it is
- our understanding that after the review of the first Presentation it was determined that the crash data
- did not Was not sufficient to warrant a light and
- Unfortunately, I'm not sure how many accidents and Injuries have to occur before a light is considered
- a reasonable thing. We do understand that a light is not an inexpensive Addition Although under the
- circumstances we feel that it is the best solution to the situation that
- We are facing in this at this intersection Our request specifically for a sensor activated stoplight
- Because we understand that North Walnut Street is a major thorough way through the city and connecting
- to interstate 69 But and a censored light similar to the one that's on Liberty Drive and the Baxter
- pharmaceutical parking lot where it's activated when Automobile pulls up to the intersection it starts
- the system of shutting down the cross-traffic so that the Individuals can make safe turns out of that
- parking. We are seeking similar kind of Addition
- to to this intersection to make it both safer for residents of our community as well as visitors to
- the city who are at the city's visitor center And trying to make a left turn to go north. It's just
- as dangerous for them as it is for us Maybe not why because the sightlines tend to be slightly better
- but At any rate that that is what we are
- working toward, we consider speed bumps or ripple pads, but unfortunately ripple pads would be detrimental
- to the environment, to wildlife, as well as to residents because of the noise created by those. And
- speed bumps, well, we don't know how popular those are, but they are.
- believe the statistic was 85% effective. Although I personally would see speed bumps if they could be
- avoided. So we're not advocating speed bumps, we are advocating for a sensor activated light, which
- would help reduce the potential for accidents at this intersection. As I said, I've lived in
- this neighborhood for 21 years and I know people who've been there for 40 some years.
- and one of whom is Jan Lawswell, who is not able to attend this meeting, but wanted me to mention the
- fact that her husband was in an accident turning left onto North Walnut Street and has suffered permanent
- injuries from that accident. And again, when you're pulling out of this intersection, it is not
- Necessarily possible to notice that there's traffic coming because they're coming at such a high speed
- you look Both directions and there's nothing coming and you pull out and as soon as you do they're right
- on you and we have 140 to 50 signatures of people especially from the west side of Blue Ridge who use
- this intersection who will attest to this fact I hope that we have some president as well
- But we are also asking that a dedicated turn lane be added to the northbound As a shared right turn
- lane and bike single lane. This is actually being used as a turn lane now which is both questionable
- and possibly dangerous because I've seen
- residents using that bike lane, which is illegal to drive in about bike lane for an extended period
- of time, all the way from the gas station on North Walnut Street. And they do that because they are
- absolutely terrified that they're going to get rear ended when they're trying to make a right turn into
- our neighborhood. And again, it's all about speeds and a recklessness. And people have
- been if you're trying to make a left turn from North Wana into Blue Ridge and You know, there are people
- coming at you from from behind at 50 55 miles an hour and I think it's a 40 mile per hour zone Then
- they start honking at you that is quite unnerving for anyone and we have several of our residents who are just
- I'm gonna say it terrified to use this intersection because it is simply not safe. I know people who
- said that they will not let their children drive using that intersection because they don't feel that
- it's safe. They make them drive mile out of their way to go to the light on the bypass in Dunn Street.
- So basically what we're asking
- Further this to make this a safer intersection I mean a light is not going to be an absolute perfect
- thing, but it is certainly going to be The best solution that we have at hand because again speed bumps
- and ripples just are not going to be effective here So we're asking for the sensor activated stoplight
- and the other two dedicated turn lanes the right turn lane off of North walnut heading north and
- Another dedicated left turn lane into the chiropractic office, which is just north of the visitor center
- We do recognize the city's efforts by adding the two central lane turn lanes from Heading south on North
- walnut and heading north on North wall into the visitor center and into the ridge but we feel that those are
- Insufficient to actually address the full Nature of the situation Yes, okay, let's open it up to questions
- from Commissioner well actually first we should hear a response from staff Kick this one off to Andrew Seaborg
- Andrew seabor city engineer just a quick Recap again. This is a transportation inquiry Like the last
- one you have the three options one are to suggest no further action is necessary this time You can request
- additional study information or request that a future petition come before you I think at a meeting
- or two ago gave an update just on the ongoing project that that's in the in the works and
- That as as was just referenced is incorporating some of the specific changes that the neighborhood has
- sought As a part of their initial inquiry to the Traffic Commission staff did complete What we would
- typically do and somebody's asking for a signalized intersection is to conduct a warrant analysis As
- I think I mentioned previously that that intersection is not warranted
- For a signal some of the key criteria we looked at they did mention crashes that is one potential metric
- another is traffic volumes and so this is a location where the Intersecting roads just don't meet the
- traffic volume thresholds that are typically suggested for prioritizing signal and
- We are implementing additional changes as was mentioned adding the left turn lanes into the neighborhood
- And to the visitor center as a part of that. We're removing one of the uphill climbing lanes Expecting
- that some of these changes will help mitigate some of the greatest speeding concerns or that inconsistency
- with having that passing lane So we've collected before data we're certainly planning on collecting
- after data like we do with all of our projects just to track the impact on speeds in this area and
- So it's really too premature, but would expect to see some decrease in those top end speeds as a result
- of the project And I might be missing anything but I'm more than happy to answer any questions that
- the Commission has Okay, let's open the floor to questions on TCI 25 11. Mr. Coppock Andrew he mentioned
- site distance. Have you guys looked at the site distance in there to see what what that entails? I
- Yeah, we've looked at the site distance. I don't have that information in front of me, but That the
- sufficient site distance is met to meet the minimum industry standards It doesn't mean that it isn't
- limited somewhat by certain features that is the case in many locations but wasn't to the point of Sometimes
- we might use that to justify. Yes a signal or a stop sign or other things should be but that it wasn't
- met here Mr. Drummey
- Maybe I may have a few questions, but is is it is it the staff's perspective that speed is an issue
- in that area? Yeah, I think in the report it did mention that People do speed on the street and some
- of the very high-end speeds So recognize there is a speeding issue hoping that the project that's underway
- will help mitigate some of that to what extent it's hard to say And I also want to mention the mentioned
- crash data One of my staff just showed me
- There are some crashes that are at this intersection I think the pattern that we have seen so far or
- in the most recent few years were all rear end type crashes and so just wanting to note that if we were
- to install a traffic signal I would actually expect to see more rear end crashes and we didn't see angle
- or turning crashes at least in the The years we were looking at which might be more related to a traffic
- signal being warranted
- Second question is as it ever and I realize the neighborhood may not want this but has it ever been
- considered to make that only a a right turn only Entry exit for that neighborhood because my understanding
- is there is a rear way to exit that neighborhood, correct? Yeah, there there is a way you could access
- through Dunn Street So there are alternative routes that I'm sure some residents are currently using
- if they're feeling uncomfortable going out to Walnut Street especially certain times
- So that is an option that instead of left turn lanes, we could put treatments in the center of the road
- to make left turns Impossible My own I guess only one further comment I wish we had another tool like
- speed cameras to slow people down But I know we don't have that option. But what about enforcement?
- Is that something that we? tried to coordinate or Yeah
- I think certainly as I haven't had recent conversations with our police department But I know in the
- past they they did speed enforcement as they could and as their resources were allowed But I know their
- staffing is going up. So hoping that is more of a tool I know a frequent request at the Traffic Commission
- in the past was boy if the state just let us do speed electric
- Speed enforcement, but that is just not currently allowed though. I do want to say there are some trials
- underway pilot programs that in dots implementing that we're hopeful are successful and can become wider
- spread Mr. Stossberg Yes, you're following the MUT CD guidance here part of that that
- Guidance has a section 4c 1a does give jurisdictions some latitude to develop their own warrants and
- guidelines What are some sorts of things which the city would take into account to deviate from the
- normal? MUT CD guidance Yeah, that's a good question Truth of the matter is we don't
- Install too many new traffic signals in the city It's more likely we're thinking in that context as
- we're thinking about stop signs so we were talking about site distance was an earlier question that
- would be a factor or Potential pedestrian more vulnerable road user crossings. Those could be a factor
- There was a bus stop that kind of thing nearby those those might be other considerations. I
- You mentioned rear end crashes that they might actually increase if we put in a signalized intersection
- Yeah, I think if you're introducing the requirement at times when a red light Appears on Walnut Street.
- You're just introducing more chance that somebody sees it and somebody doesn't and and so that's generally
- what I would expect as we install new Signals, there's more likely to be rear end crashes Thank you
- I have a second question
- Observation the city has been moving towards more objective data-driven Planning particularly when it
- comes to this sort of project the city has developed a safe streets for all Priority corridor map and
- includes this Section of road on it and I believe it's it's has a priority of medium low So there's
- other high high critical areas
- so and as part of moving towards this objective system, we have people organizations are good at advocating
- for themselves, but This work comes out of a city goal to improve equity Not everyone knows the system
- or how the system works, but all residents here deserve to be safe whether they know how to advocate
- or to come
- How to get things done and that's partly what the safe streets for all priority map does. It's not a
- map of Three neighborhoods who showed up. It's a map of the whole city So we have limited funds to spend
- to it. Could it be the case that a project could both have merit? some mitigations could have brief
- safety but in the scheme of the whole city it might not be where we want to spend money this year and
- I think that that's an excellent question and the honest answer is yes, like there is a chance that
- Like there's a scenario we could say a traffic signal is is a good idea here That's not something I'm
- saying at this point But we could say that but I would also say but there are other locations that are
- also good ideas that might have greater need
- There are locations that maybe do meet these warrants and so we were just so then it's also a priority
- prioritization exercise So even if this was deemed desired I would say this is not near the top and
- that reference to the safety action plan is an excellent excellent one I've spent a lot of time looking
- at crash data intersections and What I'm one thing I noticed and my analysis the city ran their own analysis
- Was a lot of the intersections that have the highest rates of crashes for pedestrian cyclists and overall
- are signalized Is that do you agree in the city's analysis was the same? I just intuitively that makes
- sense to me that they're signalized but partly that's because there's also where there's most conflicts
- exist so it might not because of a signal but it's where there's a lot of That relationships hard to
- say. Yeah. Thank you. That's all Mr. Flaherty Thank you
- I think the Conversion to one lane all the way up from old 37 southbound will Dramatically help some
- of the speeding challenges. I'm sure like most folks I've definitely witnessed plenty of people accelerating
- to 60 plus to make a pass You know kind of cresting that hill So I'm hopeful that that will help a lot
- along with some of the other Changes that are planned Obviously as you mentioned we're going to measure
- speeds post
- Conversion and get data on that which is also helpful and I appreciate that we're taking a data-driven
- approach My question is Should that prove sort of I'm not enough. Are there more like traffic calming
- type measures for let's say a little bit north of the entrance to Blue Ridge that would could be considered
- I know the the speed limit I think is 45 but I'm thinking of the East Morris Pike
- Speed hump for instance near the entrance to Hyde Park just right by old cut that is not It's not a
- speed bump. You slow down to 10 miles an hour to go over. It's like 30 I think 30 is a speed limit there,
- but even at 35 probably like it's not You know owners are there other treatments like that that would
- apply to this speed limit that could be considered in the future Should this conversion not be adequate
- in in reducing speeds? to expected, you know allowances and compliance and
- Yeah, and another great question. I think the answer is other things could be explored. I know another
- example of a treatment that we're currently Testing are the radar speed feedback signs. We have a couple
- just to see what are the long-term effective results of those That's another potential tool The the
- interesting part is even if we want to then it goes back to the prior question of is this the corridor
- to prioritize compared to others Maybe but we haven't got to that point yet
- Is it your opinion that we should before considering an additional step like that from staff perspective?
- We should probably get more data first. I Think at this point, that's what my suggestion would be is
- to complete the project that's under construction After some period of time collect some data and see
- what the impact of it has been and share that data Thank you I'll take a turn Do we know if traffic
- speeds have increased since I 69 wasn't was?
- opened I I Don't have the answer to that question because I note that The most recent traffic volume
- cons don't have dates attached to them So I wonder if that was just an oversight or that we don't know
- what the date is there We could go back to check it I would also say that there may be some variability
- but the the nature of the design of the road hasn't changed or wasn't different so I
- I wouldn't expect to see a different number, but I'll also note that all four of these traffic counts
- are south of the bypass The loot ones on Walnut Street, and I would really like a traffic count north
- of the bypass I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been one taken on this significant road I don't
- know if that's correct. You're saying I just wear them 2002 North Walnut 2024 North walls are years.
- I think Oh
- I could see what sorry for that confusion. Oh, well, yeah, I mean they literally listed here like they're
- addressing Like what are you measuring rive for? All right, okay We're gonna talk about your memos,
- okay when they talk about a sensor activated light, are they saying that And I want to open up I want
- to make sure that mr. Ferguson knows that he can answer this question, too but
- Does that mean that it'll only trigger if there's traffic coming out of Blue Ridge to trigger the light?
- That why it would be out of Blue Ridge and or the Okay, right. No. No, I hear that. I'm just asking
- is this is this a thing mr. Seaborg I think
- I would expect an intersection if it was signalized to have detection and to respond as vehicles It
- wouldn't automatically cycle it would only cycle if it was because the traffic is so low on Blue Ridge
- That's a fair question. I don't know if I'm comfortable saying definitively yes or no sometimes we might
- want it to stop to help with speeds or In case it isn't correctly detecting somebody or some vehicle
- that wasn't there So so it may still cycle through even if it's not detected
- So there may be benefits to a light Regardless of Blue Ridge simply for the can although wouldn't be
- regardless But there may be some benefit to a light in that it might be able to control Speeds, although
- it may not be your preferred method. Yeah, I think I guess maybe I've heard some cities have experimented
- with traffic signals to intentionally just rest in red for the purpose of
- Stopping people and slowing traffic very experimentally So that's a possibility But truly if the purpose
- was traffic calming, I think I would want to entertain an earlier question We had about tap is is a
- signal or a roundabout or other alternative treatment maybe more better better Next question is as I
- was listening to this presentation I was thinking about the Hawk signal on North Dunn Street near the
- stadium. Mm-hmm
- What was the volume of pedestrians? Do you have any sense of the volume of pedestrians using it? What
- was the volume of pedestrians that? Called for the hawk signal there You know, I don't know If usually
- when there's a pedestrian demand thing like that, it's harder to predict how much Usage there will be
- so I don't know if we had that number but a device like that does have warrants just like us
- Vehicular signal right and I want to say at least there's some thresholds of at least 20 per hour But
- it depends on a number of factors. Okay Because like I have an interest in comparing The potential cases
- for that signal and this intersection if I what I suspect is it may be the case There's maybe a thousand
- people a day using the hawk signal
- You know like I it doesn't change anything you said about Trying other measures first just that I feel
- like that would be a good set of data to have to compare situations, so I don't know I mean Does that
- data exist there accounts that exist for that signal I could look into that and
- I think it also gets into again like the prioritization exercise and is of course is a Pedestrian equal
- to a vehicle or there's just a lot of interesting questions within that agreed I mean, I'm trying to
- be agnostic about it simply saying that I feel like I don't necessarily want to dismiss This inquiry
- out of hand simply because it's only it's it's non-pedestrian sure so
- I have other questions, but I wanted to open up to a second round to follow up questions from any member
- Anybody else have questions miss Davis What's the timeline for the current work that's scheduled for
- the turn lanes and all that I Can get that to you in a minute I've got a Okay, if you want I've got
- a question for mr. Ferguson while we're waiting for him to answer that mr. Ferguson I
- Yes, okay It's been pointed out that Blue Ridge is not a cul-de-sac That this is not the only way in
- and out of the intersection. Can you talk a little bit about? the Dunn Street connection to Blue Ridge
- and How the neighborhood uses that now do do people use that as an alternative route? There are those
- who who will only use that simply because they do not feel safe using a
- the North Walnut Street exit It adds I'm not exactly sure the exact distance but it's like a mile and
- a half or something Anywhere from I don't know I never really typed it But it does add some time to
- exiting sure the the addition as well as it's kind of a round
- Way to get to where we want to get if we want to get to Walnut Street Having to drive all the way to
- done and then all the way down What two or three blocks? More on the bypass to get to North Walnut,
- which is by the way protected by a stoplight It's it makes it highly Inconvenient but you know
- Yeah, people do it and I do it myself, especially right now since they're actually working on the project
- But I did want to also add that There are only the two turn lanes that are planned The other two have
- not seemed to be Been addressed by the new work that's going on there as well But yes, no people use
- the bypass on done
- Again it's inconvenient and it's it's It's it's not it's not Most people don't feel that that's a reasonable
- thing to have to do when you live right next door to the north walnut exit And I would also address
- that the right only would only
- Defeat the entire purpose because then people would have to drive north to all 37 then to down and then
- Got it. Okay. Well, thank you for that answer. I'm gonna defer to miss Davis who had a question outstanding
- Yeah, the status early November. It should be complete. So next couple weeks Further questions Mr. Sussberg,
- mr. Seaborg is it
- That in dot in the last couple years added a stoplight at done in the bypass They Or as a turn signal
- is what I'm thinking They add a turn lane or Thinking of it yeah, I don't know if they added a lane I
- Turn signal turn signal. Sorry. That's what it was Yeah, I think maybe mr. Ferguson would could confirm
- but Yeah, but that was added in the last year or two I believe a turn signal Seem to recall it's been
- there for a while. Okay. Thank you. I
- Executors any further questions of commissioners before we go to public comment on this inquiry Am I
- right mr. Drummond go ahead mr. Seaborg if this neighborhood were to be developed today would it likely
- have access directly to old zero 37 I Would have to look at a map to see but certainly as new developments
- are come forward to
- As many connections as possible to the network is desired Seeing no, oh wait a minute I had I Had one
- more question. Mr. Seward Would you be able to name off the top overhead an intersection? anywhere in
- the city that You know for sure is more in need of a signal right now than this intersection
- I'm hesitant to say but also as an example of what is more outstanding 17th and Eagleson 17th and Eagleson.
- Okay, this is Okay Yeah, why why can you tell us a little bit more about that intersection The traffic
- volumes meet the signal warrants and there are a pattern of crashes that could be addressed with a traffic signal
- Very good. Thank you Okay with that, uh, let's you have another question. Okay, let's go to public comment
- on tci 25 11 If you are in the room and like to speak to the issue, please come to the podium Sign your
- name If you are on zoom, you may use the raise hand feature to be called on to speak again We do not
- engage in direct dialogue Questions must be rhetorical all of our marks must remain respectful if a
- commissioner wishes to take up a rhetorical question asked they may do so
- after public comment period is over If you'd like to speak, please come to the podium Sign in and state
- your name and you'll have three minutes Hi, I'm Carol Canfield I'm a 21 year resident of Blue Ridge
- I'm very glad that this is finally coming to the fore because I've been scared out of my wits trying
- to get out of my neighborhood You try to get out turning left and everything's clear and as soon as
- you're on the road You've got somebody on your tail. It's a 45 mile an hour speed limit That's posted
- at the bottom of the hill, which I think is just excessive for the amount of traffic on that road
- For the neighborhood and the businesses along there tap road has a 30 mile an hour speed limit Compare
- those two this is a major entrance into the north side of the city We have been trying to do something
- about this since I was on the board 20 years ago And I'm just thrilled that it's finally getting some
- serious consideration We need a stoplight there
- Especially when it's raining you try to turn out from our addition and you have to get some traction
- and I drive a pickup truck so I don't have a lot of rear wheel traction and As soon as I'm out there.
- There's somebody on my tail and What James said about turning right heading north into our addition?
- We do get honked at all the time and You know, I don't want to be rear-ended there. I
- This just needs to happen we have tried to get the those things that tell you what your speed is and
- Compared to what the speed limit is. We've not been able to get that we've tried to get police to Be
- sitting at the visitors bureau or wherever. We've not been able to get that This is the first serious
- consideration. We've had and I've been there for 20 years We need
- this signal and As far as going out to Dunn Street, I don't know if you've driven down Dunn Street But
- it's very narrow and it's very hilly and again you take your life in your hands when you're turning
- right and People are coming up over the hill We've got to do something about this People's lives are
- at stake Please consider doing this. Thank you Thank you
- Is there further public comment? Do we have anybody online who's raised their hand, Mr. Roebling? I
- don't have anyone who's raised their hand yet, but if you are online and would like to speak, please
- raise your hand. We have another speaker in the chamber. Please sign in and state your name.
- Hello, my name is Carrie Floyd my husband Kevin and I Live in Blue Ridge neighborhood and we are concerned
- over the safety of the intersection at North Walnut Street in East Blue Ridge Drive I'd like to point
- out that you cannot see the turn into Blue Ridge until you're almost upon it Walnut Street is heavily
- traveled and the cars are going very fast This makes turning into Wallet Street from Blue Ridge Drive
- dangerous, especially when making left turns Kevin and I are cyclists
- We use the existing bike lanes on Walnut. It's challenging and scary to make a left turn onto Walnut
- Street going across two lanes of traffic. I don't see how the lane changes that have been made will
- ameliorate this situation. I hope you all consider putting in a traffic light to make this intersection
- safe. You're on a bicycle. The site lane is really difficult to see cars coming, but you wait until
- you think you're ready, and a lot of times cars are coming at us before we can get across two lanes
- Please take that into consideration If there are cycles, you know bicycle lanes on both sides of walnut
- people do use those Thank you for your comments next up in chambers Is there anyone online mr. Robling
- who's raised their hand I
- James Ferguson asking to be unmuted so I will unmute him although I will point out that he is the original
- inquirer Yeah, he's the person make the presentation. I'll just ask him to unmute in case there's a
- second person just to confirm Mr. Ferguson, are you speaking for yourself? Is there someone else in
- on your call? I'm just
- Wanted to address a few a couple things. No, no sir myself, sir Sir as the petitioner you'll get that
- chance after public comment is over because you've already presented and we can ask you questions afterwards
- Okay, that's me. Thank you. Let's continue in chambers, please Yes, my name is Kevin Floyd and Yeah
- being on being on a bicycle there is bike lanes on on walnuts what's designed for bicycles and
- It's extremely difficult to turn out onto walnut. And I've heard two people say that the speed limit
- is 45 miles an hour. It's not, it's 40 miles an hour, but it should be lower than that. And the 40 mile
- an hour sign is, I don't think most people see it, so they assume it's 45 miles an hour. It goes to
- 40 miles an hour.
- before you get to Blue Ridge. Another thing I point out is that you can't see the intersection from
- Walnut, especially going southbound. I myself look for the flag poles at the visitor center because
- you can't see that intersection at all. There's no indication, there's no sign that there's an intersection
- there, so cars don't know you're gonna be pulling out in front of them.
- There's other things that could be done to make it safer. Main thing, get the traffic slowed and let
- people know that there's gonna be traffic coming out there so they're not surprised by a car pulling
- out. And that's it. Thank you for your comments. Are there any commenters online? None online. Any other
- members of the public in chambers who'd like to speak to TCI 2511?
- None will come back to the Commission for follow-up questions Any follow-up questions from commissioners
- to my left? To my right. Mr. Flaherty Thank you follow up on speed and the staff memo did mention that
- the speed limit was 45 miles an hour at that portion of North Walnut, which is why I Where I was getting
- the information I guess but I'm curious to clarify that point and
- And then as a follow-up, I'm also curious where else in the city other than maybe state highways We
- have speed limits of 40 or higher or especially 45 or higher As I reflect on it and the point made by
- miss Canfield. It does seem rather excessive relative to other other streets of a similar character and
- Answer the first part that was an error on my part. It's 45 north of Blue Ridge Just like mr. Floyd
- said and then it is 40 south. I just that was an emission On my on my part, but that is correct Is that
- roughly the the point at which it changes right about the neighborhood entrance? Yes, roughly right
- there. Okay And on the second point any any response related to why 40
- miles an hour here or even 45 I guess I understand some justification once you're sort of leaving the
- city for maybe 45 but I guess even the placement of it and when that transitions But yeah, just wondering
- about other relative to other streets. Do we have other 40 mile an hour streets? Around the city Yeah,
- I'm just looking at our title 15 table. There are a few 40 mile an hour streets This is the only stretch
- that has a 45 So it's a rarity
- But like I mentioned in the fatal crash report Bloomfield Road has a 40 mile an hour speed limit So
- there's a few others like it But most of our roads are 30 or less Bloomfield's a state highway,
- is it not? It transitions to one But we there are sections within the city's inventory. That's 40 and
- do we control the speed limit? It's a bit tangential and even on state-owned highways there within city
- limits or no?
- No, just on our city maintain. Okay, though. That's not the case here. Okay. Thank you. I Just want
- to get a clarification This was there was a member of the public who pointed out that this is old State
- Road 37 Does that it does old Sarah 37 mean that it's no longer in in knots inventory of state highways
- I'm not gonna pretend to
- An expert on it, but I could at one point it was a state highway at this point. It is a city maintained
- road Okay, so but it is a city-owned city maintained road now correct and We don't Think of ourselves
- as having highways in the city We have streets and roads and the state has highways, right? I
- Definition but yes, we tried to design our roads different. Yeah having said that this road was designed
- and Eventually to be a highway, right and it preceded all the things around it the neighborhood the
- buildings on either side of it Are we actively trying to tame this road to to bring it down from a highway
- into more of a city street and
- Like over time over decades. I think the answer is yes. That's a part of the project that we're wrapping
- up are implementing changes to it was a maintenance focused project, but as we're doing these projects
- we're trying to Improve them as much as possible with that the spirit of the funds So so yeah by removing
- that uphill lane. We're really transitioning from a traditional highway Design more to a city design
- Okay. Thank you
- Further question before we go to debate question. Mr. Drumming if we're trying to tame the road was
- it considered Was it was there any consideration given during the current project to lower the speed
- limit from 40 to 45 to something less? That was not a serious consideration. I think at this point the
- measured speeds are so great we're just trying to take that incremental step of
- Doing things that we think will promote lower speeds will reassess after completion and then and maybe
- depending that we can go further so And we're just acknowledging no one cares what the speed limit sign
- say we need to do something different to try to slow them down Yeah, and I My job would be so much easier
- if people just read a sign and followed it Understood Mr. Flaherty
- Thank you one more question related to some of the public comment about cycling specifically in and
- out of the neighborhood It seems to me that so one way to one way to address that with busier faster
- streets I'm thinking of Allen Street as it crosses South Walnut for instance is a pedestrian island
- of some kind that bicyclists can also use Those tend to prohibit left turns into a place off the main road
- Which might be desirable here if we're getting into the neighborhood from north, you know southbound
- on a North walnut, but it seems to me that the I guess it's the visitor center across the street It
- has a separate entrance point that is closer to the building. There's sort of like this extra I don't
- know the history of it. Maybe there was other businesses there like it seems to me like you could probably Prevent
- Left, you know make a pedestrian island that would prevent left turns into the visitor center as currently
- planned and actually put a pedestrian island or make that conversion later and that may dramatically
- increase safety for a cyclist in particular Who are exiting Blue Ridge? Obviously like all things that
- entails expense there are trade-offs. We have lots of needs in the city, but still just wondering has
- that been considered is my Assumption about the viability of that sound I
- Yeah, I think The truth it probably we didn't seriously consider bicyclists crossing of this intersection
- I appreciated the comment to just when we assess sight distance that is based on we're assuming vehicles
- are pulling out and they can Accelerate much quicker. So the limitations of sight distance for a cyclist
- would be different and more challenging So that's a really fair concern Then it gets more to prioritization
- and impacts and design I think
- One of the things with the design that's being built right now is that there are at least no longer
- through lanes. There will be, even though it's not a refuge, there's turn lanes that are going to more
- likely and frequently be used or occupied. I'm not saying that'll be a desirable space to be, but it
- will be better than it was.
- We could always remove those and create a more significant refuge But then we're prohibiting a left-turn
- movement that I think the same neighborhoods asking for so So it's a tool. It's an option that could
- be looked at more in the future for sure Thank you With that we'll know got now go to debate again,
- we have three options here we can recommend that I've already
- We can recommend no action. Thank you We can we can request additional study or information or request
- that a petition addressing the issue Be prepared by staff and brought before us So, please keep those
- in mind as you make final comments on this Inquiry, are there any final comments? Or comments rather
- for debate on this issue to my left. Mr. Coppock
- Please get use the mic. Well, I know that closer closer I know that when state highways relinquish those
- roads to the city the city had to take him in when I was there many many years ago and It usually just
- stayed with the speed limit that was posted for the state highway so I think maybe one of the things
- we could look at is what if we look at maybe changing the speed limit to lowering it something to something less than
- 40 miles an hour In there I know 46 through Ellisville they just Reduced the speed limit in there from
- 45 to 35 the state highway did that themselves So maybe that could be one of our options to have further
- look at what happens when we get the new the new Design or plan is completed and maybe look at reducing
- the speeds Thank You mr. Coppock Other members
- Mr. Flaherty sure I appreciate All the advocacy that folks from the neighborhood have have brought and
- and I appreciate the point mr Stossberg made that some aspects of this may well have merit but not be
- something that we decided to move forward with at this time on the basis of opportunity cost
- and prioritization aimed at an objective and equitable approach to addressing the most significant safety
- challenges in the city and
- I think on top of that, I generally have fairly strong deference for staff with respect to engineering
- expertise on warrants for things like signals, et cetera, and whether or not they, in particular, may
- have unintended consequences, including safety, worsening safety, which may well be the case here. So
- for that reason, I'm not in favor, I guess, of at least moving forward
- I'm not in favor of a petition coming to do most of the things that the neighborhood was asking for.
- I know there was kind of a list, and that given that we are in the midst of finalizing a conversion
- that should address some of the worst aspects of this issue, in particular the speeding, especially
- from folks from the north headed southbound, my inclination would be to wait and get more data and assess.
- Think the speed, you know echoing the same point about the speed limit signs I think that I don't know
- if that we need to wait on more data to consider that but I do wonder if that's in another good option
- some of me I think there's some other lower cost options that could address potential for traffic calming
- if even speed limits didn't have it Have the intended effect Etc. So maybe there are things that are
- being you know, again We wait we learn more from the updates and then there are some additional options that are
- At least somewhat low barrier relatively speaking compared to a traffic signal and some of the other
- things that have been discussed So I think that's where I sit on it currently. Thank you for the for
- the thoughts from members anybody Mr. Drumme I agree with with staffs recommendation of us. I think
- we should see how the current Work impacts speed I would be in favor if it were ever an issue for this
- from for me to decide to
- might as well lower the speed limits anyway. I mean, even if 10% of the people with the lane reduction
- from two to one, if one person drives the speed limit, everybody behind them's gonna be driving the
- speed limit too. So I hope we don't live in a world where those things don't matter. And if there is
- ever enforcement, obviously getting a ticket going 25 miles an hour over the speed limit is way worse
- than going 10 over.
- So but I do think I would like to see how the current renovations play out and see how that impacts
- the livability of the area and from there Thank you further comments from members On my left anybody
- on my right Okay, I want to say one thing I was wrong about
- The old name of this road. It was never old state road 37 that runs through lower cascades. It crosses
- this road at That light further on this road on Google Maps is still listed both as Walnut Street and
- State Road 37 North State Road 37 business There you go. So that definitely Underscores its
- lineage if you'll forgive the term as a highway it was designed as a highway is meant to to move cars
- fast in and out of town and All the businesses and neighbors that cropped up Did so after the road was
- created. This was the main way in and out of town Or old 37 was Of course it is still a main way in
- and out of town it's still faster for many people to take a
- North State Road 37 business then to go all the way out to 69 So Part of me is unsympathetic to the
- problem that Blue Ridge faces because It's a highway and I think they knew that when they moved in on
- the other hand I get it. I think that they have more than a point a light would work a light would
- Solved the problem to the satisfaction of the neighbors But as for all the things that other people
- have said the Equity concerns. I mean, it's not the highest priority. There is another way in and out
- of the neighborhood It would be inconvenient, but that maybe isn't enough to justify What the neighborhood
- is proposing? I don't think we have enough information. I definitely would like more information and
- Regardless of whether it would elevate to a petition. I think that I would move to ask for Traffic count
- at this. Well, okay, I got it. I read it wrong I'm still a little embarrassed about that, but I would
- like the counts of the hawk signal at Dunn north of 17th Street I would I also want to see what happens with the
- the already happening improvements to the area as Modest as they are compared with the neighborhood
- is asked for so I'm kind of ambivalent I don't I wouldn't entirely rule out a light but another thing
- I think it would be useful to know is what is the actual cost what would the actual Cost be to to make
- all the changes to the neighborhood has requested I think just as an exercise for any neighborhood.
- It would be useful to say that
- That the light that Blue Ridge requested would cost X dollars and that's generally how much it costs
- to install a light If we were to instead do some kind of a traffic circle there, what would that cost?
- like this is the first time we're taking inquiries like this and This is information that will be useful
- to any neighborhood coming with a request as significant as this so I would
- Would make a recognition for more information even if I don't think that any further action should come
- from it. That's my take Still welcoming comment and feedback from other commissioners Seeing none we
- need a motion I Can't make it because I'm the chair
- Clarifying question. Do we need a motion to take no action or Yeah, we need we we need to dispose of
- this was some kind of affirmative statement in any either we were Taking no action asking for information
- or asking for petition to be made Thank you Anyone who wants to make a motion I Move that no further
- action is warranted at this time Need a second second
- Motion in a second Without any further ado, let's have a roll call vote on the motion to take no further
- action Drummy Yes Flaherty. Yes Davis No Stossburg. Yes Copic. Yes Connell. Yes Boland no
- Alright that by my count is a five to vote in favor of no further action I'm going to thank the petitioner
- and staff for the presentation and the question and answer period Let's go now to discussion of topics
- not on the docket. Are there any items that commissioners would like to to raise as No, there's just
- two items on the agenda right now
- Any items that members would like to discuss without? Presentation On my right on my left I did have
- a couple of follow-up questions for staff based on last meeting Mr. Flaherty asked a question last meeting about
- Who has jurisdiction on ultimate jurisdiction on transportation matters whether it's purely administrative
- or whether council has a say And we talked about having city legal Present here. Do we have any update
- on this? request Yeah, Andrew Seabor city engineer About a week and a half ago. I had a meeting with
- city legal on this general question about
- They at that time we were basically finalizing the packet for today's meeting so they were not prepared
- for certainly this meeting I'm not sure about next meeting, but it's something they're working on and
- for my discussion I understand they're in in dialogue with the council staff as well on that question,
- so I don't have a significant update, but just know that conversation is happening and and hope at some
- point to have them here when they're able to Share share an update
- Okay, so you're saying that they They're not sure they're still working on it there they are I think
- they're actively working on the legal questions And in dialogue with council staff and their opinions
- of those questions, too That was a key other question was is council staff involved in that? That's
- my understanding. Very good. Thank you Thank you, you might want to stay up here, but I'm not sure secondly,
- mr. Flaherty asked a question about
- Of bicycle traffic on the seven line. Do we have any updates on that? Yeah, I We have conducted counts
- on the seven line It was maybe already a couple weeks ago, but we have not had a time to actually summarize
- and digest those counts I can say
- I've been told that the counts are less than they were but how much and the details of those I Don't
- have that right now the fact that you're counting means that we can hope for a report at some point
- of the near future That's fair perhaps at the next month's meeting. Yeah, that'd be great Yeah, mr.
- Flaherty So mr. Seabour, thank you. You did send an email to me as well About that question and part
- of it was related to what was a permanent bike counter You mentioned at our previous meeting that it
- was broken and not easily fixed and
- In particular, you said the permanent bike counter stopped collecting data in March 2024. The fix is
- not simple Engineering staff is working with P&T staff to think about potential future investments and
- equipment like this and You're actively doing tube counts in the bike lane where we have prior count
- data that we can compare I think that's what you were just referencing. Yep, the data and comparisons
- will have limitations, but Will be something that can be reviewed
- Can you speak any more to what you mean by the data and comparisons will have limitations? Is that a
- function of the type of count or something like that? And then also It's it sounds like no fix for the
- permanent permanent byte counter is anticipated at this time It's my understanding the permanent byte
- counter is just a technology that is no longer Functional we got its use out of it. We have other ones
- like it that are still collecting data, but I don't think we're
- It's not like a simple battery replacement. So it's it's a bigger effort and then Trying to remember
- exactly what I said and what I was thinking at the time But just the limitation count the tube counts
- are you know, that's collecting a two-day period count compared to a permanent counter That's collecting
- it. You know, it depends when was a football game who's in town. There's just variation in weather So
- that's a limitation and then just there's a lot of outside factors between
- Stop signs the poplar's redevelopment project. There's a lot of things but wanting to we'll share the
- data And so are two counts like quite like time limited like you only put them out for a certain number
- of days or something Yeah, we typically put them out for at least two full typically midweek days. I
- can't remember how long these were out So it's just it's compared to a permanent count. It's 24-7 right
- different. Thank you. Yep The last thing I had was
- any clarification on parking so I made a half-hearted attempt to follow up when Michelle wall contacted
- me about setting up a meeting as we talked about last meeting to discuss the parking report that they
- solicited but By the time I had gotten back to her she said that that decision to schedule that meeting
- was out of her hands and back and
- Commission staff's hands. So can somebody clarify where we are with that? Yeah, I've been in communication
- with Michelle She's on a vacation today as is the consultant. Otherwise, they probably would be here
- today, but they just couldn't My hope I'm I don't have hundred percent certainty But my hope is that
- at your next meeting the first hour of it will be dedicated to discussion about the parking study in
- one of the planning session type formats so more to come but that is
- Think what is likely to be expected and this will be an opportunity for them to gather input from the
- Commission Not simply a report of what they've already done. Yeah, it's it's more of a I'll let Ryan
- explain the process Yeah, well your question hit it right on the head. That is the goal of a planning
- session is to help craft Whatever we're looking at in this case the parking study good Thank you. I
- appreciate hearing that the last thing I would ask would be sort of
- Highlight of potential future items that staff is planning to put on the docket for next meeting. I
- Think I already I'm going by memory, but I know a big one on the next one We're hoping is that parking
- study discussion and then I think another one that may be of interest is likely an update on the 10th
- Street corridor study That's those are two that are likely next month and then likely come early next
- year is likely
- I'll pin it over what Ryan to confirm but college and one that'll be another one, but probably early
- next year But there's there's others. Those are the some big ones off the top my head. Do you expect
- any cases? Probably okay
- All right with that we go now to general public comment on items not on the docket. Is there any oh,
- mr Sorry, I I do have a quick I should have maybe done it earlier, but I just this one's really quick
- College and walnut corridor study. There will be two public meetings and you're encouraged to come to
- one or both of those They are open house format We'll have two design alternatives for the public to
- come in look at and make some comments on and help us guide that decision that will be on Tuesday
- October 28th right here in this room and then again on Thursday Thursday the 30th that's how numbers
- work Yeah at both at 530 right here this room. They'll be essentially the same meeting So you don't
- have to come to both but you're encouraged to come to either of both and then yes I can confirm that
- 10th Street will be a petition that should be on next month's agenda. We'll also have a formal calendar
- for 2026 we had to wait for
- BPW Plan Commission and Park Commission to finalize their schedules Are we still talking about third
- Monday for those meetings We yeah with that was kind of gonna be our plan, but we're open to basically
- any day other than Wednesday Yeah, this is my point to tell commissioners that if you have any qualms
- at all about this meeting time This is the month to think about it I can already say that
- I've taken on another commitment that meets at the exact same time I'm not sure whether I can get that
- body to meet at a different time. I hope that I can but I wouldn't mind like the second week instead
- of the third week, but this is Something that we should all think about in time for the November meeting
- Any other questions or comments from members before we go to general public I
- Time for a general public comment and items not on the docket If there is someone on zoom or in the
- room who would like to speak to an item that we did not already discuss today Please come to the podium
- sign in state your name. You'll have three minutes Is there anyone in the room who would like to speak?
- Is there anyone on zoom who would like to speak, please raise your hand Keep it open other few seconds.
- Please raise your hand and zoom if you'd like to speak to an item that is not on our agenda today today
- Going once
- Twice That's it. All right, and with no further business I entertain a motion to adjourn be adjourned
- their second This meeting is adjourned