This meeting will come to order. This is the, I believe now, fourth meeting of the, or the fifth meeting
of the Transportation Commission for October 2025. Can we please get a roll call? Coppock? Here. Connell?
Here. Volwin? What? Volwin? Here. Drumme? Here.
Davis Stasper here We have a quorum will now Read the agenda will have approval of minutes Excuse me.
We will have reports and communications from commissioners and staff including administrative updates
update on hundred and eighty day orders fatal crash report report on outdoor dining in the downtown
corridor and a report on the summit district PUD and improvements in transportation and
They're in We'll have two cases tci 2510 matlock heights parking restrictions and tci 2511 north walnut
and blue ridge intersection area improvements We'll go to discussion of topics not on the docket We'll
go to general public comment on items not on the docket and then we'll adjourn Let's start with the
approval of minutes. Do we have any minutes to approve? Yes, we have the september 15th 2025 meeting minutes
We have a motion for approval of minutes. I Move the minutes be approved We have motion in a second
are there any comments changes or amendments to the minutes from my right From my left Seeing none well,
let's go to a vote I
Can we do do we have to do a roll call vote all in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed say nay The
minutes for September 15th are approved. Let's now go to reports from commissioners. Does any commissioner?
Would any commissioner like to make a report about anything in particular? Mr. Stossberg Yes, I live
in the Park Ridge neighborhood and we recently had the ribbon-cutting
for an updated greenway and traffic calming that goes through there. And I just wanted to highlight
that as a successful collaboration between the city staff and the residents. The staff came out multiple
times, listened to feedback, were responsive, and created something that I believe the neighborhood
is happy with, works well for us, but it also took into account the overall city network and is consistent with
elements that are consistent with how Greenways are done throughout the neighborhood. So highlighting
that a success. Thank you Thank you, mr. Sossberg anybody else to my right with a report to my left
I Just have two items one is in reading the packet for this month I Thought it would be good to just
point out that anyone who observes our proceedings
Anyone who has a point to make about transportation in Bloomington at all is strongly encouraged to
file a you report that is how we're planning to process requests for For or inquiries of any kind and
anyone is welcome to do it. The trick is that It's not actually called you report on the side. It just
says report something and
But the URL is bloomington.in.gov slash you report. So if you are a little Confused by the page you're
using. It's a generic page for all city reports But this is the procedure through which the Commission
will entertain any Inquiries that might become the subject of of items on our agenda the other thing
I wanted to
call to our attention is that The safe streets for all plan that the city adopted last November is something
that sort of needs to be tracked And I think it's incumbent upon this Commission as the inheritor of
the Traffic Commission's obligations to be aware of the plan and to
Follow along its implementation over the next few years So I wanted to call attention to say sheets
for all plan And specifically that I think every member of the Commission should be At least keeping
it in the back of their minds if not actually referring to it once in a while Since that's one of the
primary Missions of the Commission
With that, let's now go to reports from staff. Do we have any administrative updates, and who will be
representing first? Yeah, I believe that'll be me. Okay. Sorry. So, part of the effort in putting together
the commission has involved trying to improve upon our internal processes for documenting what's going
on on the staff level in terms of preparing materials and making changes to commission documents over
time. As part of that effort, I've developed a change log, which I hope will help clarify exactly what
kinds of decisions are being made at the staff level.
with respect to changes in formatting and the tracking of cases and the like. This change log is currently
a draft and I provided two versions of it and sort of attached to the report. The first is sort of like
an overview where we're sort of providing a summary description of the decision
giving us Documenting who proposed the decision or made the suggestion Documenting whether or not the
decision was implemented as part of our ongoing policies and procedures and There's this approval category
which I'm less okay with but it was part of the template. So here we are Perhaps it will help provide
some transparency into has who is actually implementing these decisions and
At the material level The detailed change log which follows is where I'm trying to provide some very
specific notes It's probably a level of detail that most people Won't Won't be inspired by necessarily
or appreciate but just in the purposes of clarity this is sort of where we're at the
The ID number is, all of this is being entered in manually. It is a Google Drive spreadsheet to date.
But part of this is also sort of like preparing us for an inevitable shift to using another database
structure for tracking commission activities, the Tyler Technologies EPL system, which I'll be able
to provide another update at our next meeting for because the contents of that
Meeting I had with ITS was very recent. I wasn't able to incorporate it into our packet for for this
month But if you have any questions about my report, I will feel them Any questions on administration
of the Commission from members Seeing none, thank you for the presentation. Let's go now to an update
on hundred native the orders I believe that's Andrew Seymour director of engineering
Seymour hello Good evening, Andrew Seymour City engineer. I'm just wanted to continue my Effort to keep
the Commission updated on hundred and eighty day orders Since our last meeting three new orders have
been issued the first two are Hopefully items that are familiar to you that we discussed them at our
last meeting one dealing with clarifying some on-street parking on North Illinois Street and
Between 12th and 15th that's been in place now and then we also more recently updated the The time limit
of limited parking on West 8th Street between Rogers and Fairview from two hours far So both those items
we discussed at our last meeting Maybe a new thing for the Commission is the third new item, which is
stop control at the prow and a cuff Road intersection
This was essentially a result of a new development that's under construction and as a result of that
development they Essentially turned what was once a curve in a road into a three-leg enter intersection
and as a result Required putting in a stop sign on the top of the T or the minor intersection so that
that recently opened up and so we had to do 180-day order to get that in place and
Beyond those three new ones. I was required to extend three other ones Just quickly one dealt with the
loading zones adjacent to Kirkwood Avenue on some new loading zones that we implemented And then others
a result of parking and stop control things in the Hopewell area hopeful East and along 1st Street so
those have been extended and I'm happy to answer any questions the Commission has and
Thank you. Mr. Seymour. Are there any questions on 180 orders to my left? To my right Seeing none. Thank
you for that. Let's move now to the fatal crash report Yeah, I'm gonna quickly try to share my screen
together a Little presentation Okay, so
Just wanted to provide this commission a report on a recent fatal crash And I think just to set some
groundwork for this I've been doing this since late 2021 when the Traffic Commission passed a resolution
essentially Requesting or directing the the city engineer the director of the department to provide
a report on all fatal crashes to that commission and
In my staff report. I want to note that was in their packet I had an error that it said I reported on
four fatal crashes There were actually five fatal crashes that I provided updates to that traffic Commission
on since 2021 So just in the spirit of that resolution that really predated the the City Council in
the city's adoption of resolution 24-07, which is essentially
Our goal to have zero fatalities and zero serious injuries on the city's roads by 2039 So mentioned
the safe streets for all action plan and this resolution really led to that or was a part of that process
so just the spirit of we don't want these crashes but what we want to reflect on them and and Make sure
the community is aware of them And then you mentioned that the SS for a plan that was adopted
One of the action items within that plan deals with essentially our procedure for analyzing these and
providing reports While we're not able to implement all of that action item a component of
that is essentially me doing this right now To give you that update on this fatal crash Just to help
in the the context of reviewing fatal crashes I think I did this with the Traffic Commission and I might
not go into all the details in future meetings, but
Really wanting to highlight the Federal Highway Administration's safe system approach The idea here
is that if we really want to reach zero fatalities They developed this this framework to really think
through things So there are essentially a set of principles that are on the outside of this graphic
So those really form the the basis of our approach to safety So the idea is our death and serious injuries
are unacceptable humans make mistakes
Humans are vulnerable responsibility is shared safety is proactive and redundancy is critical So then
on the inside of the circle are the the elements? These are the things that are required to make our
commitment to vision zero happen So those include safe road users safe speeds safe vehicles safe roads
and post crash care Another graphic that I really like to steal or borrow from Federal Highway Administration is this
It really essentially captures that no single element can really Create a safe system. It takes them
all in in pair and in combination But when so when you really combine these it just really reduces your
risk of having these types of crashes So I think it just does a good job trying to capture that So to
get to the the fatal crash that that did happen this year
The crash happened on Thursday, July 3rd just before 4th of July Between the noon and 1 o'clock hour
in the afternoon. It was a nice day This was an intersection related crash. So it dealt with the intersection
of Bloomfield and Landmark Avenue it involved a westbound motorcyclist and an eastbound to northbound
SUV so essentially motorcycle going through
Through the intersection and then a turning vehicle on to land bark go in the opposite direction the
motorcycle operator per records was seen essentially driving past cued cars crossing the double yellow
line In a movement that wouldn't be expected likely as the light was starting to change and and they
they crashed into the turning SUV You can see that that motorcyclist passed away
on August 22nd, so not immediate, but was very seriously injured and ultimately passed away over a month
after the crash. So just to quickly look at the intersection and to focus on what's going here. So this
is an aerial overview of the intersection. Landbark is the top of the intersection, the north leg. It's
just a T intersection with a driveway on the south side, and you've got Bloomfield running, I'll call
it east-west in the area.
One lane one through lane in each direction with some turn lanes. You also see a Google Street view
image that is looking west At the intersection. So essentially the the area the motorcyclist was was
this was their their view As they approach the intersection Bloomfield here is a 40 mile an hour speed
limit facility The lanes are roughly 10 feet wide the road is in good condition partially because we
did recently improve this intersection in 2019
You can see some new curb ramps, crosswalk markings, new signal infrastructure. The intersection geometry
there, especially on the northwest corner, does look very different as a result of the project as well.
Bloomfield is the major road here. Just keeping in mind the safety action plan, Bloomfield as a corridor
is identified as a high-priority corridor. Landmark isn't, but Bloomfield is a high priority.
The intersection itself is classified as a medium priority intersection Not focusing on the specifics
of the crash but just looking at the history there Over the last five years there were 17 reported crashes
at this intersection The majority or the most common crash were rear ends. That's pretty common at busy
intersections that are signalized there were some turning and angle crashes and
Of course the one fatal crash and some other injury crashes as well, but mostly property damage only
We also did observe a pattern of two bicycle crashes essentially to Path users going eastbound Colliding
or being hit by southbound right-turning vehicles. So those are just things to be aware of
at that intersection as well. So
So I think just wanted to provide that update. I'm happy to answer any questions that the Commission
has Thank you Thank You mr. Seaborg are there questions for mr. Seaborg about fatal crashes mr. Drumme
For example in this circumstance the
Motorcycles died several months later. So how do you get identified as a fatal crash? Yeah, we a lot
of our crash information comes from the police report that is generated by our officers And then as
there are updates they will typically update those logs and I've got a staff that that track that So
sometimes like after a crash a common thing might be or serious crashes They'll do like blood alcohol
testing and that isn't immediately known. So update the records in the future And so we're just tracking
that over time
Further questions from my right. Mr. Flaherty Thank you the past resolution from the Traffic Commission
and The City Engineers practice with respect to fatal crashes had been on my mind as we transition to
the Transportation Commission So having not even brought it up I appreciate That you brought it to us
and I assume then that's your intent is to continue that process with this Commission it is yes and
Just on that, I know one of the, I don't know if you were gonna go here or not, but that resolution
asked for me to specifically look at a few elements of these crashes. Certainly open to discussing that
type of thing with this commission if there's interest. Some of those questions, as I went through it
over the years, were just hard to define, like how broad or how big do you think? But anyways, I don't
know if that's where you're going or not, but. Maybe, yeah.
Question is whether or not we should adopt a similar resolution formally So it's actually this Commission
as opposed to just adopting a past practice might help for the sake of continuity Establishing a record
of our own of why we want to hear about this That might be an opportunity to make some adjustments as
well and reference the safe streets for all action plan Which did not exist at that time? So that might
yeah provide an occasion to revisit some of those questions about scope and what it is. We'd like to
hear about When we do hear these reports Would you be open to that?
Yeah, absolutely I Without it. I'd want to give reports like this but certainly opens to further dialogue
and that resolution was generated by a commissioner and Happy to work with this commission or members
of it to draft something going forward. Okay. Thank you. I think it's safe to say that Barring any action
otherwise that we've inherited the work of all three commissions and that whatever resolutions they
had active we have an obligation to follow till we
them so it might be good to have an administrative meeting where we check in with practices you were
accustomed to with the other commissions and Just you know, then we can put on the agenda items that
really should be Declarations of this new commission. So if that's okay with staff, they're happy to
meet offline and do that Further questions from mr. Seabor on the fatal crash report to my left. I
I got one I think maybe two How many of the fatalities that have happened since 2021 Involved pedestrians
as opposed to drivers or passengers of cars So there were five now six fatal crashes since I've been
going through this I mean this decade basically There was one
One pedestrian that it's coming off the top of my mind and one scooter rider off the top of my mind
I seem to recall though that there were no fewer than three fatalities on East 3rd Street in the past
five years that involved pedestrians one was Hit by a bus at the bus stop one was hit by an SUV and
third in Washington and one was hit at the corner of third and Indiana is that not right?
Those must those were prior to the Traffic Commission's resolution And I think when I was not a city
employee, so I can't speak to those because I thought they were all since 2021 so Maybe I'll have to
go back and check the the dates but yeah, so okay, but of the ones you're familiar with pedestrians
were involved in two if you consider a scooter, yeah a pedestrian, yes a non non car driver or passenger and
Was one of the people involved in the accident and the crash rather Correct. Okay The other question
is I think last meeting we talked about And I think it was mentioned in the minutes the the county level
crash dashboard is that is that site up Yes, it is and is it linked on the Transportation Commission webpage
It will be by the end of the meeting if it's not Okay, that's great Last question I have is in the entire
experience that anybody on staff has had working for the city Do we know of any crashes that involve?
something that Other than an automobile have there been any fatalities or injuries caused by bicyclists
or scooter riders? against other
Bicyclist scooter riders or pedestrians that you know of It's a tricky question to answer because it
gets into defining terms and what is a fatal crash Going by memory, which is always a risky thing to
do. I think most crashes that are officially Would show up in these databases involve a vehicle by nature
So I don't think if it involved
Scooter crashing into a scooter that that would pop up in this data set Okay, so you're saying that
a scooter or a bicycle caused injury would not even show up in transportation databases, I would want
to verify but my My recollection is that involves an automobile and that is yeah Interesting. All right.
That's a question. I'm gonna want to follow up with in the future All right. Thank you Any other questions
or comments mr. Stossberg?
I looked for weird crashes in the data too. And I did find a crash that involved a pedestrian and deer
But I don't think the pedestrian crashed into the deer. I think maybe somehow a car managed to hit them
both at the same time Huh, so I don't know. That's an interesting one. Yeah Thanks for that. Thanks
for the report. Mr. Seaborn. Absolutely Let's move on now to a report on outdoor dining in the downtown
corridor. Who's here to present? I believe I see miss Modinger
Good evening commissioners. I'm Chas Moddinger special projects manager in the economic and development
department economic and sustainable development department So I'm here to provide a brief update on
the 2025 outdoor dining program So earlier this year City Council adopted ordinance 2005-02 to establish
a reoccurring seasonal outdoor dining program
This ordinance repealed and replaced the previous version reinstating both the parklet and Kirkwood
Avenue conversion It suspends certain provisions of the Bloomington municipal code to facilitate the
use of public right-of-way for outdoor seating This the conversion affects East Kirkwood Avenue blocks
100 to 500 Each year the program's guidelines are reviewed and approved by the Board of Public Works
for 2025 the outer
The outdoor dining season runs April 4th to November 10th. The Parklet participants are Orbit Room,
Metalworks, which is now closed, Crazy Horse, and Buffalooies. The Kirkwood participants are Uptown
Cafe, Farm, Village Deli, Nick's English Hut, and Lenny's Brew Pub. So the update, the 2025 program
has experienced mixed results.
Under this new ordinance, blocks 100 through 500 on East Kirkwood were closed to vehicular traffic during
the program period, regardless of whether participating businesses utilized outdoor dining. The intent
was to encourage community use and street activation. However, the anticipated engagement has been limited
due to issues such as understaffing, lack of necessary budget, and policy issues.
In addition, it soon became clear that the 200 block needed to remain open for the season due to access
concerns from nearby first Christian Church whose alleyway serves as a primary entry and parking area
and cannot be accessed when the block is closed. The 100 block only had a half closure due to similar
issues with an alleyway and accessibility.
So Public Works, which oversees special event implementation of Kirkland, has faced challenges managing
these closures due to limited capacity. It's basically a lot of work for them. In particular, the closure
of the 300 block where no businesses participated in outdoor dining was widely viewed by community members
and business owners as underutilized and visually unappealing based on ongoing and anecdotal feedback.
Following the Hoops event on October 2nd, this block was reopened to traffic.
There is also consideration to public safety when viewing the Kirkwood conversion in this manner The
parklet component of the program saw improvements this year Several businesses invested in raised platform
decks that align with the sidewalk enhancing accessibility and aesthetics Staff anticipates the program
guidelines to be updated for 2026 to require all parklets to have these raised platforms one participating
business closed during the season which uncovered a series of issues that are
Not currently outlined in the ordinance relating to abandoned property and communications Prior to the
start of this season staff identified and installed six additional accessible parking spaces in proximity
to the kirkwood corridor In response to frequent reports of short-term parking in front of the bollards
Partially blocking lanes of traffic staff also installed two loading zones on both dunn street and washington
street city staff
Are currently collecting updated feedback from both business owners and the public to help inform future
program adjustments The Planning Department will also conduct a Kirkwood corridor study in 2027. So
thank you I welcome your questions or feedback and just so you know up there is a map of the program
this year you can see the blocks that are closed and
We made this to also show where accessible parking is and to give the public an idea on where they can
go where the parking garages are And the new loading zones and whatnot. So, thank you Thank you, miss
moniker are there questions from commissioners to my right Mr. Flaherty, thank you. Thank you for the
report. Um, I
Maybe not a question from his funding or actually there was a reference at the end of your report about
2027 planned corridor study on Kirkwood I don't want to ask about the scope of that study what stretch
of Kirkwood as well as what is like the The focus like I'm recalling in particular that the transportation
plan calls for a design charrette and similar process to explore shared street design of Kirkwood I
think roughly between walnut and Indiana, but maybe that would vary some in
Wonder if Kirkwood also has a corridor study slated that might be longer and more like related to safety
versus design So I'm curious even though those are related Curious about that and how that might interact
with this program also. Yeah, there will be more information coming about that I don't have all the
particulars. It's not in our department. I don't know if Ryan wants to answer it, but I'm gonna pass
the mic to him. I
Yeah, you nailed it. There will be a direct design shred style corridor study will also it'll be Triggered
by the safe streets it roads for all safety action plan. So it will incorporate that I expect it will
go all the way up to the beeline But that it were open to negotiation on that but certainly the stretch
from walnut to Indiana and Yes, it'll focus both on design and safety improvements. So it'll be slightly
unique for
In that regard from other quarter studies you have seen or will see Thank you Thank You mr. Flaherty
questions for miss moniker to my left Okay, thank you for the report I guess the only question I would
have is Do you already know what recommendations staff will make for next year Will the 300 block?
Stay open next year. Do you think? We Yeah, we're not ready. We're still looking into it right now.
Some things have come up like with public public safety So hopefully we will know the answer soon, but
we're still very much getting feedback about About that and I know that in the news you talked about
how you kept that block closed until after the Hoosier hoops event on October 2nd How many other events?
I mean, I know that taste of Bloomington used that block How many other events took advantage actually
took advantage of that closed space this year? I would have to double-check with public works, but I
believe some of the festivals did but And what there's like five big ones per year. I would have to
check not that many so for instance the public library was supposed to do a dirt fest on that block
and I think
June or July that didn't end up happening because it was too sunny on the block and they ended up doing
it on their own property so I was like Smaller activation events that utilize the block. I don't really
think there were any except for yeah, I think some of the larger festivals like maybe Handmade market
or something or like pride used used the block. Is it is it? onerous to expect public works to just
close the block for an event like is that hard and
Could the could the block just be closed right before and after an event and is open at the rest of
the time Yeah, it depends on like special events and they have to go through a process to get that.
Okay, but Yeah, so the for public works to do it they have to approve the Board of Public Works and
staff goes through the special events applications and so if they would need to so I guess that the
block was closed this year until recently so
But yeah, normally what they would do it have to be approved it have to the organizer would have to
Do all the right steps to make sure everything's safe and legal and then yeah board of the public works
crew would close the block It's just that council has approved the closure of the entirety of the street
during the season Like that might be one less step I mean it they shouldn't have to get you know permission
from public works to close the block and
It's already supposed to be closed. Yeah, so just some of what we saw this year in the memo I briefly
mentioned it why activation didn't happen. It's it's staff and money and also policy issues So I kind
of hinted at that but yeah, it is a little difficult for people to potentially activate the block So
that's something that would need to be looked at There are Jane Cooper Smith director of economic and
sustainable development. Thanks. Nice to see everyone I think that
I've completely lost my train of thought now There are requirements for that that need to be demonstrated
via the application process like insurance safety plans trash plans So they everyone will continue to
have to go through a thorough Use of the public right-of-way process. I think miss Moddinger's presentation
is more just an overview We want the transportation to be familiar with what has happened so far and
where the the program is right now and we're committed to
You know implementing it To our best ability and making sure next year that we have really activated
spaces. So I think that's kind of why you're driving at that point Yeah, you know, I'm just curious
as to what if any conclusions you've come to so far. That's all Yeah, so thank you. We appreciate the
feedback Any last questions comments, thanks again for the report. Yeah. Thank you. I
Let's move on now to the final report listed here the summit district PUD and improvements to transportation
within it Andrew Seaborg Thanks Yeah, I just wanted to take this opportunity to provide the Transportation
Commission an update on a major development that was approved ultimately by City Council last May I
was in the news. I'm sure you guys are familiar with it, but it's called the summit district It's in
the southwest corner of the city
Pulling up a map here. You can see it Bloomfield Road again is that diagonal running road on the north
side Weamer is a major north-south road that just is immediately west of this development site and that
development site is generally bound by the dashed blue in this map and Tap is further to the south
But this development is potentially going to be really large. It was approved to be up to it's about
140 acres It could include up to four thousand two hundred and fifty new housing units some commercial
space in a hotel It's expected to take a number of years for this development site to be built
But just as a part of the development process and approval process for this project the development
team did prepare a traffic impact analysis that essentially studied The amount of traffic that a development
of this size would create and the impact it would have to to the city's transportation system And so
in your packet, there's the official traffic study and then a supplemental memo that went along with
those The the timing of these were not
They really weren't done being reviewed done being developed At the time this was all approved by the
City Council And so there was a condition that essentially said the developers required to work with
the city on an MOU to outline off-site transportation improvements that would that would be needed And
so this is just my effort wanting to share some of this information with this Commission and
Essentially to summarize there's a series of eight transportation improvements that that were really
zeroing in on The details of what those improvements are and their exact timing are very much still
in flux but trying to Try to prioritize them at least and in the memo I mentioned that maybe the first
improvement that we would see is dealing with the single-lane culvert crossing on Wimmer Road and
May or may not be needed depending on how quickly the next phase of improvements are built So the the
next phase of things that we're really looking at is essentially an extension of vanguard way I guess
you can see it on one map. It's hard with it with the text on another but Weimar Road
Essentially runs through a floodplain on the southern half of it the city's transportation plan calls
a project to build a new connection I'm identified in that red line furthest west here. So essentially
rerouting Wimmer Road into what is Vanguard Parkway and then the vision is that Wimmer Road that is
no longer used for automobiles could become a trail type facility and
And then along with that new realignment and there's also needed improvements identified essentially
at each end of that new Weimar Road Vanguard Parkway facility. So at the south end at TAP And then at
the north end at the Bloomfield and Weimar Road intersection So those are sort of the first larger bucket
of improvements that that we'd likely Be seeing to support this development but also to support the
community and it implements things that are in the transportation plan
The next sort of batch of priority projects would be and these are all on the map There's some some
dots trying to illustrate them, but it's for intersection improvements One is the Bloomfield Road Allen
Road Street intersection Another is a Bloomfield Road in the second street where it sort of transitions
there at Adams and then
Wimmer Road and Sudbury Drive, that's probably the most defined scope that's essentially adding a left
turn lane on Wimmer Road and then on the opposite side because we would be seeing more traffic on Sudbury
Drive and then Adams Street and Allen Street intersection improvements as well. So those are the focus
areas that we're really looking at I don't know the result but I know what today it's the City's
Redevelopment Commission meeting they were starting to talk about
Potentially seeing if the RDC would be willing to earmark some funds to start the design of some of
these things so I Think that's what I wanted to share and I know it was really high-level and quick
I'm happy to answer any questions that the Commission has at this time as these projects move forward
I would certainly expect more more details and more information at this point. It's just a status update
on what we're looking at
Thank you for the presentation. Are there questions for it commissioners on my left? Mr. Coppock Andrew
so it happened Vanguard, I guess is that going to be a roundabout in there then as a proximity to this
intersection with signal? Yeah, I think we I think we'd be looking at options at many of these intersections
So Tappan and Vanguard we would look at a roundabout. We'd also look at a signal I think many years
ago the city was looking at doing a roundabout there and there is a
More right away because that was a part of the plan. So I think that's a very real possibility at that
intersection Thanks Questions from my left My right Mr. Flaherty I think the previous questions sort
of illustrated what I was going to ask about but I assume these are all essentially projections based
on study, but in each case would be subject to
Analysis to justify an improvement like this isn't a plan for like we're going to do these things because
we anticipate X rather It's like see how the development unfolds when justified We'll look at these
particular anticipated projects or other needs and then move forward. Yeah, I think there's there really
is some phasing here I think that those earlier improvements to Vanguard and either end are some people
would feel are very needed today from a safety perspective and and just
Part of the transportation plan those further ones out I think are further out and more subjective to
what things happen. Thank you. Yep for the questions I wanted to ask about Vanguard Parkway I'm looking
at page oh four seven in the packet, which is a map this map but Depicted by the consultant
Is vanguard park? We're gonna get built by the developer or by the city. I Think at this point, we're
just saying it's a facility that we want to see built how and when and those details are to be worked
out because I also see that there's quite a few roads we built I mean the yeah, that's the page the
Vanguard park we've read on this map, but the internal roads that would be extended Sudbury and Adams are beige
And so I wonder if those designate ones that the developer will build I think conceptually the the beige
ones we're seeing here are more like Internal to the development and I'd say much more likely the developer
would be building some of these off-site things I think I would assume the city will be building because
they are on city assets They're not the developer doesn't own the adjacent property. But what is the
funding mechanism and the partnership there is to be determined and
I just didn't know as if as a condition of the PUD it involved them because we've had other PUDs that
involved off-site transportation improvements and thinking of 19th Street and the big developments over
there That one developer funded an actual sidewalk all the way well past the development. So Is it has
that already been decided? Do you know I think the the details of the
Funding and the partnership I think are still just on going I think from from at least my perspective
and I think the Commission's is Identifying what improvements are needed and by when so we're not playing
catch-up Did I answer your question I think you did The other question I have is about the nature of
the internal grid such as it is. It doesn't seem like much of a grid And I'm wondering do they know yet?
Like are they gonna build any streets that are not marked on this map? However small yeah this this
map actually is we're looking looks pretty silly to me and it is different than what's the Plan Commission
and City Council approved, but there are additional streets I think the main thing here I want to highlight is that
Adam Street would connect that's a very meaningful connection to the community and to this development
and that would connect to Sudbury Drive as well So those are required is because they're a part of the
transportation plan and and would serve the development and the community at large because I'm a little
concerned about the relative lack of grid that I see here that I'm anticipating that it's not going
to be a particularly, you know, like just one way in and out and
So with the number of people who are planning to make their homes here I'm wondering if how traffic
is going to be as a result. Yeah, I think these are these are the major roads I think there are some
environmental features and other limitations that limit how much Additional connections can be made
very good. Thank you. Any further questions from commissioners? Seeing none. Thank you for the report.
Thank you. We'll now move on to cases of
We have two transportation inquiries on the agenda Shall we start with TCI 2510 a question for staff.
Do these need to be introduced? Or can they just be we just begin presenting them You can just go. Yeah.
Okay. Let's start with TCI 2510 parking restrictions in Matlock Heights who is here to present a
Caleb Throckmorton the Malak Heights Association Neighborhood Association president I don't know how
specific you want me to be but we are just asking for Half of our neighborhood already has no parking
this side on all of the streets, but the other half does not With the success of the athletic team there
you can see the photos Our neighborhood just gets inundated with
cars parking and then they get stuck the fire department came and saw and Said that we should have the
no parking signs on one one side of the street So we are requesting that on East Glyndora North Barbara
North, France North Laverne and East Gilbert So I know we did this last year so
This is just the second time. Well, you did this in front of the and the predecessor commission Yeah,
this is a new commission. So we're happy to entertain the question Does that complete your Yeah, that's
essentially all we're asking. Yeah, okay Let's hear a report from staff For transportation inquiries,
we could try to keep it brief to let them know
Inquire could ask both of you to use your microphone to get closer. Yes Sorry about that Okay, so we
try to keep it brief for staff. We just do some background information we received planning
and transportation and public works both received a number of you reports and other reports from this
neighborhood and
So we we've addressed it to the best of our abilities in the short term, but we have not come up with
a long-term solution So that's what we're kind of asking this body to look at you can see that public
works kind of came up with a short-term solution of placing temporary signage and doing the best to
enforce that they could there but again, that's not a long-term solution so
That is why this is coming back from the Parking Commission now to the Transportation Commission In
hopes that we figure something out there is For transportation inquiries, this is our first one. Sorry
So there are a couple of actions that you can take. I just want to make note of that before you Dive
into discussion, but you can determine that no further action is warranted at this time You can request
that staff and or the inquirer
Find additional information or do an additional study or you can request that a future petition or resolution
addressing the issues raised Be placed on a subsequent agenda. So just wanted to highlight those since
this is new to us Okay, so the decision before us is to either Recommend that the neighborhood come
with a petition that that we Bring a resolution or that
What was the third option? Do nothing or we But we can also request additional study or information
All right, or do nothing. So with that let's open the the floor to questions from commissioners for
Matlock Heights On my right Mr. Connell So close to the mic
Bringing additional information would that include a staff recommendation? Yeah, if we were to to Elevate
this it would require staff to prepare a resolution Yeah, yeah Okay on my left mr. Coppock or ms. Davis I
Is this just a problem on game days? Yes current currently it has just been a game day issue We do have
people parking there for other sporting events basketball games and graduation, but that's I Mean, it's
not 55,000 people like the football games are so yeah Okay, thanks Mr. Coppock so what's
Say the normal parking on there. Do people Do the residents use the street? Yes, it's 1950s neighborhood.
So everybody's got pretty good driveways most have garages But yes people do residents do park on the
street like people visiting residents and stuff like that that I did originally inquire about just game
day only and
No parking game day only signs on this side. So I don't know if that's still a possibility or not Further
question, mr. Coppock Mr. Flaherty Thank you One question is just how how it's gone with the temporary
Measures that were referenced is that working effectively something that we might consider making permanent
via signage
How's it gone? Yes, so Currently people respect have been respecting the signs because we did do this
last year to you after the homecoming game last year and People were parking then just on the correct
side of the streets We have had issues of people parking the wrong direction on that side of the streets
or under stop signs stuff like that But at least they have been respecting the those orange Temporary
no parking signs
Okay, so is your You mentioned when you came before the Parking Commission one one option that was discussed
or your recommendation at the time Was to make essentially those signs permanent. No game day parking
this side of the street Is do you have a preference or do your neighbors have a preference that you
could speak to between that and a permanent? No parking on you know one side of these various streets.
Yeah, they certainly do Prefer just for the game day
Signs because the the part like getting permanent no game name signs rather because right now
the neighborhood is actually Taking in and putting out these signs that the city gave us The staff have
perspective on how the temporary measures have gone and Whether or not the best option is to just simply
make that permanent Or you're not ready for a recommendation yet. That's okay. It can be another meaning.
I was just curious. I
Yes, I don't believe we've had a final verdict from public works on how successful those have been yet
Okay. Thank you Mr. Drummey, I Guess I'm Confused or I think I understand your presentation, but does
the neighborhood from your perspective Perf you want to move away from the temporary system you have
now and move to something more permanent. Is that the request? Yes. Yeah right now we have the
Orange temporary signs from the city, but every Whatever it is. It's 24 hours before the game day game
time The neighbors are having to put them out Right now. We're actually just doing it the neighborhood
board So we are requesting permanent ones on those side of the streets Thank you One question I have is
Is it a matter of cost is it is is cost one reason why? The administration might be reluctant to put
permanent signs out No costs as far as I understand it public works is concern is not cost it is enforcement
this is outside of their traditional enforcement zone and so that Puts the burdens more on the police
department, which Obviously they're busy on game days. So that's
I believe a large chunk. They're not here to back me up on that claim, but we'll make sure they're here
for a future item Now I remember reading in the report that When you all have seen a violation in the
neighborhood you were instructed to call 911 How has that gone for the neighborhood? Well, we haven't
had to do so since we were
Now that we have these signs, like I said, I was gonna say So half of our neighborhood does already
have the permanent signs And there has the what sign has the permanent no parking this side signs. So
half of our neighborhood is already covered It's just the north half that doesn't have it and so people
respect those signs like I know enforcement is an issue but if if the signs are there it's less likely
that the people are going to be parking and
Where they shouldn't be and and that's what we've seen even with the the temporary signs that people
aren't parking in front of them So it has helped for sure Thank you. Any further questions second round?
To my left To my right. Mr. Flaherty Thank you So if half the neighborhood already has
Permanent no parking this side of the street signs. I would assume that's also outside the range of
typical public works parking enforcement rounds Yes, that's correct. Okay. Thank you I've got one more
question if there's nobody else One argument I've always made for parking on one or both sides of the
street is that it narrows the street effectively and slows traffic down
Couldn't it be seen as a benefit to have cars on the street? Can you talk a little bit about? Why it's
an inconvenience or worse I'm sorry. I don't understand it. In other words the mere presence of parked
cars in the street could serve to slow traffic down on the street What do you say to that?
We our neighborhood doesn't really have any
Other than East Glendora straight through streets So we don't really have Like a speed problem we do
on undone but that's yeah Yeah, so the main issue is when they are parked on both sides The emergency
services vehicles couldn't get through and on Barbara during the homecoming game last year
There was a truck with a travel trailer that just had to park in the middle of the street because it
couldn't There it is right there. He couldn't back up or back or go forward. He just got stuck. So he
just stopped It actually did impede the right-of-way altogether. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the street was closed
for the game and got it. So, okay. Thank you All right, well There are no other questions in this round
we can go to public comment and
the inquiry Let's go to public comment If you are going to speak to this issue, you can have a seat
sir. Yeah Please sign in before I recognize you and you'll be limited to three minutes per turn We're
not doing direct dialogue or questions would simply take your comment Please keep your comments respectful.
If you are on zoom You may use the raise hand function to be called on to speak Is there anyone who
would like to speak?
this inquiry Is there anybody online you so far that you see staff Just to repeat that if you are online
and would like to speak to this inquiry, please raise your hand and I will call on you
Not seeing anyone online Iris is passing out a letter that we received just before the meeting started
So it was not included in the packet. Is there anyone in chambers who would like to speak to this issue
this inquiry? TCI 2510 and Matlock Heights Last call for public comment. We have a we have a taker,
please sign in Just on this paper here
State your name and speak directly into the mic So I'm Becky Throckmorton I also live in Matlock Heights
and we'll just say since we had the temporary signs approved last year and then the games that we've
had them for this year
Residents in the neighborhood have all come and personally express their gratitude for it. I do know
that there was a safety issue That was noticed by the police chief or the I'm sorry the fire marshal
Where they noted as well that it was a major concern and they're actually the ones who had started The
attention that we needed to have this put up as permanent signs and
And so just wanted to express the neighbors appreciation for having the temporary signs and I think
the need if the football team Particularly continues to do as well as I've done now the need to have
those signs just for safety for public coming for game days but also for the residents living in the
neighborhood and any sort of Emergency vehicle that may need to get in and out of the streets.
So Thank you. Thank you any further public comment on
TCI 25 10 Last call Seeing none we'll come back to the Commission for further questions any second round
of questions I Do have one question for the neighborhood If you don't come on up, yeah IU
Used to be terrible at football terrible. I Don't think that stopped people from coming to the games,
but it wasn't in quite the same numbers Is this unique to I use? Record-breaking run the past two years
or has this always been a problem. That's only being exacerbated by their run so it has been a problem
in the past, but usually for
two games when Ohio State comes or when Michigan comes. They travel. Illinois traveled really well this
year. And so whenever a good team comes, it was a problem. But obviously, with IU being better, I mean,
they're sold out now. It wasn't frequently enough to make a difference, but now it's every game. Now
it's every game, yeah. And I do know that they've already started talking about additional overhang
on the stadium,
That's ten or fifteen thousand more people. So yeah, yeah, so it's With no added parking so Heard and
understood. Thank you question from mr. Stossberg. Yeah, I just want to clarify permanent. Are you talking
about permanently? installed like out on the street or just higher quality signs that you can put out
on game day and and take back Oh the side the permanent signs like we have on the other side of the
neighborhood and
Permanent no parking signs. Yeah, so they're out on a post. They're there all the time. No parking game
day Yeah, yes The current ones on the other side of the neighborhood are no parking This site all the
time. It's not they don't say game day. Okay Okay, if there are no other questions then we now go to
Debate and the three actions three options that we have are to say that
further actions warranted at this time that we should have additional study or information that we make
that as a request from the Commission or that we request that Either a petition from the neighborhood
or a resolution from a commissioner be placed on a future agenda of the Commission so as you speak to
the issue, please state which action if any you would prefer because we I
I've done a simple. Yes. No, mr. Roebling just a quick clarification The petition would come from staff
in this case. We would write it up to match whatever title 15 or otherwise change with Alongside the
neighborhood. We would not ask the neighborhood to write it right But I mean while you would create
the petition it would be initiated by an outside entity Sure. Yes. Sorry. Thank you. Okay, just trying
to clarify it. Okay with that Are there any comments?
commissioners to my right Mr. Connell Yeah, I think I would like to see staff introduce for a future
meeting a Recommendation Or what are we calling it a petition petition a petition to have the permanent
no parking signs installed in the area consistent with the ones that are already in
Place and that would be my recommendation Thank You mr. Connell Mr. Flaherty I think I was the same
of the same mind Maybe a clarifying question or two as well for staff So petition would be staff brought
and a resolution would be commissioner Sponsored or broad is that the only distinction are they used
for different purposes? I
Those are different purposes the petition in this case would always be staff brought it would be something
That could be initiated by someone else. But for this it would always be a petition that comes through
staff rather than a resolution, which is can come from outside but Often yeah, or it can come
from commissioners or staff, but doesn't necessarily Include what is currently and used to be in title 50
Okay, does does a for us to Direct staff to prepare a petition Is that appropriate regardless of what
staff thinks or is that only? Should only be done when staff is in agreement that something is warranted
I was thinking if the staffs in disagreement that maybe a resolution is actually what's appropriate
Great question. Yes in that case you could do a resolution it but in most cases we are going to try
to get in a place where staff is
Proposing a petition that we can support. We wouldn't try to leave it devoid of a resolution Not that
word resolution, but a solution Thank you. And then also could this be accomplished through 180-day
order? And or as related follow-up if we passed a petition Advising this the next step would be for
a title for title 15
Maybe 12 amendment At the council, is that right City Council? Yes, you have all the steps right we
could do a 180-day order if there was enough support here and the city engineer Decided that that was
appropriate. We could do that and then this would come back as a petition and then it would go on to
Council as a title 15 amendment. Okay. Thank you to my left
Start with mr. Stossberg then Davis I support that plan one areas enforcement it sounds like the the
People who come to see the games are largely compliant on the one hand and then that this is not a It's
a relatively infrequent Thing that comes up. It's more frequent now, but it might not be always that
be that way. So Seems like enforcement might be sufficiently good
Ms. Davis I'm not sufficiently up on the football schedule to know how much longer this is going to
go on But is there anything? this season What would get the neighborhood relief? Most quickly Or it
won't happen this season I the neighborhood can confirm mr. Thokman can confirm but public works has
given them those temporary signs and I believe those are working and Will continue to work through the
remainder of the season. We're aiming for a next year solution permanently Mr. Coppock Yeah, I would
agree with what's previously been said about permanent signings to match the rest of the neighborhood
180-day order if necessary So Jimmy did you have anything no, I think it's a good idea and agree with
that it should be done. Okay, I
Well where this is the first time we're Doing a so-called inquiry. This is a new commission. We've got
a new process for handling requests like this and it's in my experience the the most formalized way
that a member of the public has ever been able to Petition a commission to take formal action. So I
have to say that I'm in agreement with my colleagues after listening to the case presented
I mean no one should be no one can be more shocked than me that To say that I believe that this will
never not be a problem from no one IU has Left some kind of a broom or cross some kind of a Rubicon.
I don't know how you would characterize it, but What's that? difference to the different dimension and
This problem is not going to go away
Now one thing that I have idly wondered about is should matlock Heights consider an actual Neighborhood
parking zone, but it seems like they've made a case that it just doesn't rise to that level that The
signage they request is a reasonable request And if it's not a matter of of cost Which doesn't seem
like it is That it really is a good idea for us to at least take up as a petition and
So with that does someone want to make a recommendation or if there's any other further comment Don't
want to preclude any if not make a recommendation as to what action we should vote on Make a motion
I should say mr. Flaherty I Move that staff prepare a petition that makes permanent the emergency no
parking on gameday signs currently being utilized on an interim basis in Matlock Heights and
Further that the city engineer initiated 180-day order to accomplish the same if he finds it prudent.
Is there a second second? We have a second for mr. Connell If there's no other comment, oh, mr. Drummond
said you have one comment Y'all we need to get closer to the mic. I think people need to hear you did
your proposal I was it consistent with the other signs in the neighborhood. Could you said on game days
only? whereas I the rest of the neighborhood is no parking this side and
Monday through Sunday and it seems to me I'd be more in favor of uniformity then then game day only
one part I don't imagine it's ever gonna be an issue, but it just seems like Is there a reason to make
a distinction distinction and was that intentional mr. Flint 30? It was intentional good question my
through the questions for the petitioner and or the member of the neighborhood bringing the request
I thought their their desire was to have the emergency, you know the no game day only on the additional
on the new signage that matches what's being done now as opposed to Monday to Friday or Monday to Sunday
all times So it was in line with what the neighborhood is recommending. I believe But it's a good a
good question. I don't know if Staff has any concerns that they want to share about inconsistency among
a set of signs in the neighborhood with respect to No parking signs for one side of the street
Andrew seabor city engineer. I think it's a good question one that I think I'd want to personally Consider
more and engage with our other city departments that aren't here tonight And I guess I also just wanted
to share an opinion that certainly open to doing 180-day order for this but I think my preference would
be to bring this back with additional information to this commission because there are some some fundamental
questions of things like which side of the streets and
And and the question that we're talking about right now. So I think just I would like that guidance
knowing we have a near-term fix for this season I don't think we're in a rush, but maybe after the next
meeting being more open and comfortable with moving forward in that direction I Could consider withdrawing
the motion and making something less prescriptive or you know, I'm flexible I think this is our first
time doing this. So let's just work through a little bit
This is going to do is trigger and a formal petition the higher level thing I can already see that during
the discussion that petition we're going to ask a lot of these questions And meanwhile staff will have
time to go over the details that they would prefer all we're doing now is saying we do think that this
case rises to the level of formal scrutiny and
Formal petition and so because I already have some questions about well, I mean I like game day because
Yes, not as many people attend basketball games, but it still might be an issue during basketball games
We might find another word so that it even includes graduation But it's clear that there's you know
Stadium events or any kind of event in the stadium complex might be the the right words to do we have
to figure it out We don't have to figure it out now
Okay, we just know we have to figure out that we think we it should become come back to us So I think
let's not worry too much about the detail but if you want to reword your Your motion, this would be
a good time to do it Otherwise, let's just take a vote on it and you got further comments on the motion
So if knowledge just it's it doesn't matter I don't think I
my left Seeing none, let's have a roll call vote on TCI 25 10 recommendation to bring it as a future
petition Bowlin, yes Drummy. Yes Flaherty. Yes Davis. Yes Stossberg. Yes Coppock. Yes, Connell. Yes
That passes seven to zero
Thank you all for the presentation and let's move on now to TCI 25 11 This is a request from the Blue
Ridge neighborhood for intersection improvements at Blue Ridge and North walnut who is here to present
this item Have James Ferguson online You should be unable to unmute here in just a second. Very good.
Mr. Ferguson, please start as soon as you're ready. I
Okay, can you hear me? Yes, we can Good. Hello and good evening. My name is James Ferguson. I am Here
representing Petition which was presented to the old Traffic Commission last year which is representing
I think close to 150 Signatures at this point We are requesting that the city
make some improvements to the intersection of Blue Ridge Drive or East Blue Ridge Drive and North Walnut
Street. The situation is a long-standing one. The traffic at this intersection on North Walnut Street
has been consistently
high speeds and even reckless at points. But it's been made much worse since the advent of interstate
69. We have traffic moving at excessive speeds coming up the hill. I've personally clocked them at 60
miles an hour, which is just insane for that area. The
The traffic has become quite aggressive and reckless going in both directions There There are there
have been accidents I filed with the city and I believe the city should have on file police reports
accident reports from the five years prior to 2024 and
I'm sure the Commission is probably better capable of getting more information on on the long-standing
part of this but That was turned in last year with the original petition and then last month at this
Commission's meeting I turned in the most current version of the petition itself So part of what's going
on is that
coming out of Blue Ridge addition, the sight lines on North Walnut from our exit are quite bad.
On one side, you're looking uphill, and on the other side, you're looking downhill with very limited
visibility. And again, with the speeds that we are seeing people driving on this section of
North Walnut, it makes it extremely dangerous to attempt to make a turn from our addition onto North
Walnut Street, especially a left turn, which is having to cross both lanes of traffic. Now, I will,
I wanna mention that planning and engineering, because they're doing resurfacing, have included
part of our request for turn lanes to be added to the section of North Walnut Street. Although we don't
feel that just the addition of the turn lanes will be sufficient to address the actual conditions that
exist here. And those being the speeds and the recklessness of the traffic
Going north and south on North Walnut Street Therefore we have requested and are requesting and it is
our understanding that after the review of the first Presentation it was determined that the crash data
did not Was not sufficient to warrant a light and
Unfortunately, I'm not sure how many accidents and Injuries have to occur before a light is considered
a reasonable thing. We do understand that a light is not an inexpensive Addition Although under the
circumstances we feel that it is the best solution to the situation that
We are facing in this at this intersection Our request specifically for a sensor activated stoplight
Because we understand that North Walnut Street is a major thorough way through the city and connecting
to interstate 69 But and a censored light similar to the one that's on Liberty Drive and the Baxter
pharmaceutical parking lot where it's activated when Automobile pulls up to the intersection it starts
the system of shutting down the cross-traffic so that the Individuals can make safe turns out of that
parking. We are seeking similar kind of Addition
to to this intersection to make it both safer for residents of our community as well as visitors to
the city who are at the city's visitor center And trying to make a left turn to go north. It's just
as dangerous for them as it is for us Maybe not why because the sightlines tend to be slightly better
but At any rate that that is what we are
working toward, we consider speed bumps or ripple pads, but unfortunately ripple pads would be detrimental
to the environment, to wildlife, as well as to residents because of the noise created by those. And
speed bumps, well, we don't know how popular those are, but they are.
believe the statistic was 85% effective. Although I personally would see speed bumps if they could be
avoided. So we're not advocating speed bumps, we are advocating for a sensor activated light, which
would help reduce the potential for accidents at this intersection. As I said, I've lived in
this neighborhood for 21 years and I know people who've been there for 40 some years.
and one of whom is Jan Lawswell, who is not able to attend this meeting, but wanted me to mention the
fact that her husband was in an accident turning left onto North Walnut Street and has suffered permanent
injuries from that accident. And again, when you're pulling out of this intersection, it is not
Necessarily possible to notice that there's traffic coming because they're coming at such a high speed
you look Both directions and there's nothing coming and you pull out and as soon as you do they're right
on you and we have 140 to 50 signatures of people especially from the west side of Blue Ridge who use
this intersection who will attest to this fact I hope that we have some president as well
But we are also asking that a dedicated turn lane be added to the northbound As a shared right turn
lane and bike single lane. This is actually being used as a turn lane now which is both questionable
and possibly dangerous because I've seen
residents using that bike lane, which is illegal to drive in about bike lane for an extended period
of time, all the way from the gas station on North Walnut Street. And they do that because they are
absolutely terrified that they're going to get rear ended when they're trying to make a right turn into
our neighborhood. And again, it's all about speeds and a recklessness. And people have
been if you're trying to make a left turn from North Wana into Blue Ridge and You know, there are people
coming at you from from behind at 50 55 miles an hour and I think it's a 40 mile per hour zone Then
they start honking at you that is quite unnerving for anyone and we have several of our residents who are just
I'm gonna say it terrified to use this intersection because it is simply not safe. I know people who
said that they will not let their children drive using that intersection because they don't feel that
it's safe. They make them drive mile out of their way to go to the light on the bypass in Dunn Street.
So basically what we're asking
Further this to make this a safer intersection I mean a light is not going to be an absolute perfect
thing, but it is certainly going to be The best solution that we have at hand because again speed bumps
and ripples just are not going to be effective here So we're asking for the sensor activated stoplight
and the other two dedicated turn lanes the right turn lane off of North walnut heading north and
Another dedicated left turn lane into the chiropractic office, which is just north of the visitor center
We do recognize the city's efforts by adding the two central lane turn lanes from Heading south on North
walnut and heading north on North wall into the visitor center and into the ridge but we feel that those are
Insufficient to actually address the full Nature of the situation Yes, okay, let's open it up to questions
from Commissioner well actually first we should hear a response from staff Kick this one off to Andrew Seaborg
Andrew seabor city engineer just a quick Recap again. This is a transportation inquiry Like the last
one you have the three options one are to suggest no further action is necessary this time You can request
additional study information or request that a future petition come before you I think at a meeting
or two ago gave an update just on the ongoing project that that's in the in the works and
That as as was just referenced is incorporating some of the specific changes that the neighborhood has
sought As a part of their initial inquiry to the Traffic Commission staff did complete What we would
typically do and somebody's asking for a signalized intersection is to conduct a warrant analysis As
I think I mentioned previously that that intersection is not warranted
For a signal some of the key criteria we looked at they did mention crashes that is one potential metric
another is traffic volumes and so this is a location where the Intersecting roads just don't meet the
traffic volume thresholds that are typically suggested for prioritizing signal and
We are implementing additional changes as was mentioned adding the left turn lanes into the neighborhood
And to the visitor center as a part of that. We're removing one of the uphill climbing lanes Expecting
that some of these changes will help mitigate some of the greatest speeding concerns or that inconsistency
with having that passing lane So we've collected before data we're certainly planning on collecting
after data like we do with all of our projects just to track the impact on speeds in this area and
So it's really too premature, but would expect to see some decrease in those top end speeds as a result
of the project And I might be missing anything but I'm more than happy to answer any questions that
the Commission has Okay, let's open the floor to questions on TCI 25 11. Mr. Coppock Andrew he mentioned
site distance. Have you guys looked at the site distance in there to see what what that entails? I
Yeah, we've looked at the site distance. I don't have that information in front of me, but That the
sufficient site distance is met to meet the minimum industry standards It doesn't mean that it isn't
limited somewhat by certain features that is the case in many locations but wasn't to the point of Sometimes
we might use that to justify. Yes a signal or a stop sign or other things should be but that it wasn't
met here Mr. Drummey
Maybe I may have a few questions, but is is it is it the staff's perspective that speed is an issue
in that area? Yeah, I think in the report it did mention that People do speed on the street and some
of the very high-end speeds So recognize there is a speeding issue hoping that the project that's underway
will help mitigate some of that to what extent it's hard to say And I also want to mention the mentioned
crash data One of my staff just showed me
There are some crashes that are at this intersection I think the pattern that we have seen so far or
in the most recent few years were all rear end type crashes and so just wanting to note that if we were
to install a traffic signal I would actually expect to see more rear end crashes and we didn't see angle
or turning crashes at least in the The years we were looking at which might be more related to a traffic
signal being warranted
Second question is as it ever and I realize the neighborhood may not want this but has it ever been
considered to make that only a a right turn only Entry exit for that neighborhood because my understanding
is there is a rear way to exit that neighborhood, correct? Yeah, there there is a way you could access
through Dunn Street So there are alternative routes that I'm sure some residents are currently using
if they're feeling uncomfortable going out to Walnut Street especially certain times
So that is an option that instead of left turn lanes, we could put treatments in the center of the road
to make left turns Impossible My own I guess only one further comment I wish we had another tool like
speed cameras to slow people down But I know we don't have that option. But what about enforcement?
Is that something that we? tried to coordinate or Yeah
I think certainly as I haven't had recent conversations with our police department But I know in the
past they they did speed enforcement as they could and as their resources were allowed But I know their
staffing is going up. So hoping that is more of a tool I know a frequent request at the Traffic Commission
in the past was boy if the state just let us do speed electric
Speed enforcement, but that is just not currently allowed though. I do want to say there are some trials
underway pilot programs that in dots implementing that we're hopeful are successful and can become wider
spread Mr. Stossberg Yes, you're following the MUT CD guidance here part of that that
Guidance has a section 4c 1a does give jurisdictions some latitude to develop their own warrants and
guidelines What are some sorts of things which the city would take into account to deviate from the
normal? MUT CD guidance Yeah, that's a good question Truth of the matter is we don't
Install too many new traffic signals in the city It's more likely we're thinking in that context as
we're thinking about stop signs so we were talking about site distance was an earlier question that
would be a factor or Potential pedestrian more vulnerable road user crossings. Those could be a factor
There was a bus stop that kind of thing nearby those those might be other considerations. I
You mentioned rear end crashes that they might actually increase if we put in a signalized intersection
Yeah, I think if you're introducing the requirement at times when a red light Appears on Walnut Street.
You're just introducing more chance that somebody sees it and somebody doesn't and and so that's generally
what I would expect as we install new Signals, there's more likely to be rear end crashes Thank you
I have a second question
Observation the city has been moving towards more objective data-driven Planning particularly when it
comes to this sort of project the city has developed a safe streets for all Priority corridor map and
includes this Section of road on it and I believe it's it's has a priority of medium low So there's
other high high critical areas
so and as part of moving towards this objective system, we have people organizations are good at advocating
for themselves, but This work comes out of a city goal to improve equity Not everyone knows the system
or how the system works, but all residents here deserve to be safe whether they know how to advocate
or to come
How to get things done and that's partly what the safe streets for all priority map does. It's not a
map of Three neighborhoods who showed up. It's a map of the whole city So we have limited funds to spend
to it. Could it be the case that a project could both have merit? some mitigations could have brief
safety but in the scheme of the whole city it might not be where we want to spend money this year and
I think that that's an excellent question and the honest answer is yes, like there is a chance that
Like there's a scenario we could say a traffic signal is is a good idea here That's not something I'm
saying at this point But we could say that but I would also say but there are other locations that are
also good ideas that might have greater need
There are locations that maybe do meet these warrants and so we were just so then it's also a priority
prioritization exercise So even if this was deemed desired I would say this is not near the top and
that reference to the safety action plan is an excellent excellent one I've spent a lot of time looking
at crash data intersections and What I'm one thing I noticed and my analysis the city ran their own analysis
Was a lot of the intersections that have the highest rates of crashes for pedestrian cyclists and overall
are signalized Is that do you agree in the city's analysis was the same? I just intuitively that makes
sense to me that they're signalized but partly that's because there's also where there's most conflicts
exist so it might not because of a signal but it's where there's a lot of That relationships hard to
say. Yeah. Thank you. That's all Mr. Flaherty Thank you
I think the Conversion to one lane all the way up from old 37 southbound will Dramatically help some
of the speeding challenges. I'm sure like most folks I've definitely witnessed plenty of people accelerating
to 60 plus to make a pass You know kind of cresting that hill So I'm hopeful that that will help a lot
along with some of the other Changes that are planned Obviously as you mentioned we're going to measure
speeds post
Conversion and get data on that which is also helpful and I appreciate that we're taking a data-driven
approach My question is Should that prove sort of I'm not enough. Are there more like traffic calming
type measures for let's say a little bit north of the entrance to Blue Ridge that would could be considered
I know the the speed limit I think is 45 but I'm thinking of the East Morris Pike
Speed hump for instance near the entrance to Hyde Park just right by old cut that is not It's not a
speed bump. You slow down to 10 miles an hour to go over. It's like 30 I think 30 is a speed limit there,
but even at 35 probably like it's not You know owners are there other treatments like that that would
apply to this speed limit that could be considered in the future Should this conversion not be adequate
in in reducing speeds? to expected, you know allowances and compliance and
Yeah, and another great question. I think the answer is other things could be explored. I know another
example of a treatment that we're currently Testing are the radar speed feedback signs. We have a couple
just to see what are the long-term effective results of those That's another potential tool The the
interesting part is even if we want to then it goes back to the prior question of is this the corridor
to prioritize compared to others Maybe but we haven't got to that point yet
Is it your opinion that we should before considering an additional step like that from staff perspective?
We should probably get more data first. I Think at this point, that's what my suggestion would be is
to complete the project that's under construction After some period of time collect some data and see
what the impact of it has been and share that data Thank you I'll take a turn Do we know if traffic
speeds have increased since I 69 wasn't was?
opened I I Don't have the answer to that question because I note that The most recent traffic volume
cons don't have dates attached to them So I wonder if that was just an oversight or that we don't know
what the date is there We could go back to check it I would also say that there may be some variability
but the the nature of the design of the road hasn't changed or wasn't different so I
I wouldn't expect to see a different number, but I'll also note that all four of these traffic counts
are south of the bypass The loot ones on Walnut Street, and I would really like a traffic count north
of the bypass I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been one taken on this significant road I don't
know if that's correct. You're saying I just wear them 2002 North Walnut 2024 North walls are years.
I think Oh
I could see what sorry for that confusion. Oh, well, yeah, I mean they literally listed here like they're
addressing Like what are you measuring rive for? All right, okay We're gonna talk about your memos,
okay when they talk about a sensor activated light, are they saying that And I want to open up I want
to make sure that mr. Ferguson knows that he can answer this question, too but
Does that mean that it'll only trigger if there's traffic coming out of Blue Ridge to trigger the light?
That why it would be out of Blue Ridge and or the Okay, right. No. No, I hear that. I'm just asking
is this is this a thing mr. Seaborg I think
I would expect an intersection if it was signalized to have detection and to respond as vehicles It
wouldn't automatically cycle it would only cycle if it was because the traffic is so low on Blue Ridge
That's a fair question. I don't know if I'm comfortable saying definitively yes or no sometimes we might
want it to stop to help with speeds or In case it isn't correctly detecting somebody or some vehicle
that wasn't there So so it may still cycle through even if it's not detected
So there may be benefits to a light Regardless of Blue Ridge simply for the can although wouldn't be
regardless But there may be some benefit to a light in that it might be able to control Speeds, although
it may not be your preferred method. Yeah, I think I guess maybe I've heard some cities have experimented
with traffic signals to intentionally just rest in red for the purpose of
Stopping people and slowing traffic very experimentally So that's a possibility But truly if the purpose
was traffic calming, I think I would want to entertain an earlier question We had about tap is is a
signal or a roundabout or other alternative treatment maybe more better better Next question is as I
was listening to this presentation I was thinking about the Hawk signal on North Dunn Street near the
stadium. Mm-hmm
What was the volume of pedestrians? Do you have any sense of the volume of pedestrians using it? What
was the volume of pedestrians that? Called for the hawk signal there You know, I don't know If usually
when there's a pedestrian demand thing like that, it's harder to predict how much Usage there will be
so I don't know if we had that number but a device like that does have warrants just like us
Vehicular signal right and I want to say at least there's some thresholds of at least 20 per hour But
it depends on a number of factors. Okay Because like I have an interest in comparing The potential cases
for that signal and this intersection if I what I suspect is it may be the case There's maybe a thousand
people a day using the hawk signal
You know like I it doesn't change anything you said about Trying other measures first just that I feel
like that would be a good set of data to have to compare situations, so I don't know I mean Does that
data exist there accounts that exist for that signal I could look into that and
I think it also gets into again like the prioritization exercise and is of course is a Pedestrian equal
to a vehicle or there's just a lot of interesting questions within that agreed I mean, I'm trying to
be agnostic about it simply saying that I feel like I don't necessarily want to dismiss This inquiry
out of hand simply because it's only it's it's non-pedestrian sure so
I have other questions, but I wanted to open up to a second round to follow up questions from any member
Anybody else have questions miss Davis What's the timeline for the current work that's scheduled for
the turn lanes and all that I Can get that to you in a minute I've got a Okay, if you want I've got
a question for mr. Ferguson while we're waiting for him to answer that mr. Ferguson I
Yes, okay It's been pointed out that Blue Ridge is not a cul-de-sac That this is not the only way in
and out of the intersection. Can you talk a little bit about? the Dunn Street connection to Blue Ridge
and How the neighborhood uses that now do do people use that as an alternative route? There are those
who who will only use that simply because they do not feel safe using a
the North Walnut Street exit It adds I'm not exactly sure the exact distance but it's like a mile and
a half or something Anywhere from I don't know I never really typed it But it does add some time to
exiting sure the the addition as well as it's kind of a round
Way to get to where we want to get if we want to get to Walnut Street Having to drive all the way to
done and then all the way down What two or three blocks? More on the bypass to get to North Walnut,
which is by the way protected by a stoplight It's it makes it highly Inconvenient but you know
Yeah, people do it and I do it myself, especially right now since they're actually working on the project
But I did want to also add that There are only the two turn lanes that are planned The other two have
not seemed to be Been addressed by the new work that's going on there as well But yes, no people use
the bypass on done
Again it's inconvenient and it's it's It's it's not it's not Most people don't feel that that's a reasonable
thing to have to do when you live right next door to the north walnut exit And I would also address
that the right only would only
Defeat the entire purpose because then people would have to drive north to all 37 then to down and then
Got it. Okay. Well, thank you for that answer. I'm gonna defer to miss Davis who had a question outstanding
Yeah, the status early November. It should be complete. So next couple weeks Further questions Mr. Sussberg,
mr. Seaborg is it
That in dot in the last couple years added a stoplight at done in the bypass They Or as a turn signal
is what I'm thinking They add a turn lane or Thinking of it yeah, I don't know if they added a lane I
Turn signal turn signal. Sorry. That's what it was Yeah, I think maybe mr. Ferguson would could confirm
but Yeah, but that was added in the last year or two I believe a turn signal Seem to recall it's been
there for a while. Okay. Thank you. I
Executors any further questions of commissioners before we go to public comment on this inquiry Am I
right mr. Drummond go ahead mr. Seaborg if this neighborhood were to be developed today would it likely
have access directly to old zero 37 I Would have to look at a map to see but certainly as new developments
are come forward to
As many connections as possible to the network is desired Seeing no, oh wait a minute I had I Had one
more question. Mr. Seward Would you be able to name off the top overhead an intersection? anywhere in
the city that You know for sure is more in need of a signal right now than this intersection
I'm hesitant to say but also as an example of what is more outstanding 17th and Eagleson 17th and Eagleson.
Okay, this is Okay Yeah, why why can you tell us a little bit more about that intersection The traffic
volumes meet the signal warrants and there are a pattern of crashes that could be addressed with a traffic signal
Very good. Thank you Okay with that, uh, let's you have another question. Okay, let's go to public comment
on tci 25 11 If you are in the room and like to speak to the issue, please come to the podium Sign your
name If you are on zoom, you may use the raise hand feature to be called on to speak again We do not
engage in direct dialogue Questions must be rhetorical all of our marks must remain respectful if a
commissioner wishes to take up a rhetorical question asked they may do so
after public comment period is over If you'd like to speak, please come to the podium Sign in and state
your name and you'll have three minutes Hi, I'm Carol Canfield I'm a 21 year resident of Blue Ridge
I'm very glad that this is finally coming to the fore because I've been scared out of my wits trying
to get out of my neighborhood You try to get out turning left and everything's clear and as soon as
you're on the road You've got somebody on your tail. It's a 45 mile an hour speed limit That's posted
at the bottom of the hill, which I think is just excessive for the amount of traffic on that road
For the neighborhood and the businesses along there tap road has a 30 mile an hour speed limit Compare
those two this is a major entrance into the north side of the city We have been trying to do something
about this since I was on the board 20 years ago And I'm just thrilled that it's finally getting some
serious consideration We need a stoplight there
Especially when it's raining you try to turn out from our addition and you have to get some traction
and I drive a pickup truck so I don't have a lot of rear wheel traction and As soon as I'm out there.
There's somebody on my tail and What James said about turning right heading north into our addition?
We do get honked at all the time and You know, I don't want to be rear-ended there. I
This just needs to happen we have tried to get the those things that tell you what your speed is and
Compared to what the speed limit is. We've not been able to get that we've tried to get police to Be
sitting at the visitors bureau or wherever. We've not been able to get that This is the first serious
consideration. We've had and I've been there for 20 years We need
this signal and As far as going out to Dunn Street, I don't know if you've driven down Dunn Street But
it's very narrow and it's very hilly and again you take your life in your hands when you're turning
right and People are coming up over the hill We've got to do something about this People's lives are
at stake Please consider doing this. Thank you Thank you
Is there further public comment? Do we have anybody online who's raised their hand, Mr. Roebling? I
don't have anyone who's raised their hand yet, but if you are online and would like to speak, please
raise your hand. We have another speaker in the chamber. Please sign in and state your name.
Hello, my name is Carrie Floyd my husband Kevin and I Live in Blue Ridge neighborhood and we are concerned
over the safety of the intersection at North Walnut Street in East Blue Ridge Drive I'd like to point
out that you cannot see the turn into Blue Ridge until you're almost upon it Walnut Street is heavily
traveled and the cars are going very fast This makes turning into Wallet Street from Blue Ridge Drive
dangerous, especially when making left turns Kevin and I are cyclists
We use the existing bike lanes on Walnut. It's challenging and scary to make a left turn onto Walnut
Street going across two lanes of traffic. I don't see how the lane changes that have been made will
ameliorate this situation. I hope you all consider putting in a traffic light to make this intersection
safe. You're on a bicycle. The site lane is really difficult to see cars coming, but you wait until
you think you're ready, and a lot of times cars are coming at us before we can get across two lanes
Please take that into consideration If there are cycles, you know bicycle lanes on both sides of walnut
people do use those Thank you for your comments next up in chambers Is there anyone online mr. Robling
who's raised their hand I
James Ferguson asking to be unmuted so I will unmute him although I will point out that he is the original
inquirer Yeah, he's the person make the presentation. I'll just ask him to unmute in case there's a
second person just to confirm Mr. Ferguson, are you speaking for yourself? Is there someone else in
on your call? I'm just
Wanted to address a few a couple things. No, no sir myself, sir Sir as the petitioner you'll get that
chance after public comment is over because you've already presented and we can ask you questions afterwards
Okay, that's me. Thank you. Let's continue in chambers, please Yes, my name is Kevin Floyd and Yeah
being on being on a bicycle there is bike lanes on on walnuts what's designed for bicycles and
It's extremely difficult to turn out onto walnut. And I've heard two people say that the speed limit
is 45 miles an hour. It's not, it's 40 miles an hour, but it should be lower than that. And the 40 mile
an hour sign is, I don't think most people see it, so they assume it's 45 miles an hour. It goes to
40 miles an hour.
before you get to Blue Ridge. Another thing I point out is that you can't see the intersection from
Walnut, especially going southbound. I myself look for the flag poles at the visitor center because
you can't see that intersection at all. There's no indication, there's no sign that there's an intersection
there, so cars don't know you're gonna be pulling out in front of them.
There's other things that could be done to make it safer. Main thing, get the traffic slowed and let
people know that there's gonna be traffic coming out there so they're not surprised by a car pulling
out. And that's it. Thank you for your comments. Are there any commenters online? None online. Any other
members of the public in chambers who'd like to speak to TCI 2511?
None will come back to the Commission for follow-up questions Any follow-up questions from commissioners
to my left? To my right. Mr. Flaherty Thank you follow up on speed and the staff memo did mention that
the speed limit was 45 miles an hour at that portion of North Walnut, which is why I Where I was getting
the information I guess but I'm curious to clarify that point and
And then as a follow-up, I'm also curious where else in the city other than maybe state highways We
have speed limits of 40 or higher or especially 45 or higher As I reflect on it and the point made by
miss Canfield. It does seem rather excessive relative to other other streets of a similar character and
Answer the first part that was an error on my part. It's 45 north of Blue Ridge Just like mr. Floyd
said and then it is 40 south. I just that was an emission On my on my part, but that is correct Is that
roughly the the point at which it changes right about the neighborhood entrance? Yes, roughly right
there. Okay And on the second point any any response related to why 40
miles an hour here or even 45 I guess I understand some justification once you're sort of leaving the
city for maybe 45 but I guess even the placement of it and when that transitions But yeah, just wondering
about other relative to other streets. Do we have other 40 mile an hour streets? Around the city Yeah,
I'm just looking at our title 15 table. There are a few 40 mile an hour streets This is the only stretch
that has a 45 So it's a rarity
But like I mentioned in the fatal crash report Bloomfield Road has a 40 mile an hour speed limit So
there's a few others like it But most of our roads are 30 or less Bloomfield's a state highway,
is it not? It transitions to one But we there are sections within the city's inventory. That's 40 and
do we control the speed limit? It's a bit tangential and even on state-owned highways there within city
limits or no?
No, just on our city maintain. Okay, though. That's not the case here. Okay. Thank you. I Just want
to get a clarification This was there was a member of the public who pointed out that this is old State
Road 37 Does that it does old Sarah 37 mean that it's no longer in in knots inventory of state highways
I'm not gonna pretend to
An expert on it, but I could at one point it was a state highway at this point. It is a city maintained
road Okay, so but it is a city-owned city maintained road now correct and We don't Think of ourselves
as having highways in the city We have streets and roads and the state has highways, right? I
Definition but yes, we tried to design our roads different. Yeah having said that this road was designed
and Eventually to be a highway, right and it preceded all the things around it the neighborhood the
buildings on either side of it Are we actively trying to tame this road to to bring it down from a highway
into more of a city street and
Like over time over decades. I think the answer is yes. That's a part of the project that we're wrapping
up are implementing changes to it was a maintenance focused project, but as we're doing these projects
we're trying to Improve them as much as possible with that the spirit of the funds So so yeah by removing
that uphill lane. We're really transitioning from a traditional highway Design more to a city design
Okay. Thank you
Further question before we go to debate question. Mr. Drumming if we're trying to tame the road was
it considered Was it was there any consideration given during the current project to lower the speed
limit from 40 to 45 to something less? That was not a serious consideration. I think at this point the
measured speeds are so great we're just trying to take that incremental step of
Doing things that we think will promote lower speeds will reassess after completion and then and maybe
depending that we can go further so And we're just acknowledging no one cares what the speed limit sign
say we need to do something different to try to slow them down Yeah, and I My job would be so much easier
if people just read a sign and followed it Understood Mr. Flaherty
Thank you one more question related to some of the public comment about cycling specifically in and
out of the neighborhood It seems to me that so one way to one way to address that with busier faster
streets I'm thinking of Allen Street as it crosses South Walnut for instance is a pedestrian island
of some kind that bicyclists can also use Those tend to prohibit left turns into a place off the main road
Which might be desirable here if we're getting into the neighborhood from north, you know southbound
on a North walnut, but it seems to me that the I guess it's the visitor center across the street It
has a separate entrance point that is closer to the building. There's sort of like this extra I don't
know the history of it. Maybe there was other businesses there like it seems to me like you could probably Prevent
Left, you know make a pedestrian island that would prevent left turns into the visitor center as currently
planned and actually put a pedestrian island or make that conversion later and that may dramatically
increase safety for a cyclist in particular Who are exiting Blue Ridge? Obviously like all things that
entails expense there are trade-offs. We have lots of needs in the city, but still just wondering has
that been considered is my Assumption about the viability of that sound I
Yeah, I think The truth it probably we didn't seriously consider bicyclists crossing of this intersection
I appreciated the comment to just when we assess sight distance that is based on we're assuming vehicles
are pulling out and they can Accelerate much quicker. So the limitations of sight distance for a cyclist
would be different and more challenging So that's a really fair concern Then it gets more to prioritization
and impacts and design I think
One of the things with the design that's being built right now is that there are at least no longer
through lanes. There will be, even though it's not a refuge, there's turn lanes that are going to more
likely and frequently be used or occupied. I'm not saying that'll be a desirable space to be, but it
will be better than it was.
We could always remove those and create a more significant refuge But then we're prohibiting a left-turn
movement that I think the same neighborhoods asking for so So it's a tool. It's an option that could
be looked at more in the future for sure Thank you With that we'll know got now go to debate again,
we have three options here we can recommend that I've already
We can recommend no action. Thank you We can we can request additional study or information or request
that a petition addressing the issue Be prepared by staff and brought before us So, please keep those
in mind as you make final comments on this Inquiry, are there any final comments? Or comments rather
for debate on this issue to my left. Mr. Coppock
Please get use the mic. Well, I know that closer closer I know that when state highways relinquish those
roads to the city the city had to take him in when I was there many many years ago and It usually just
stayed with the speed limit that was posted for the state highway so I think maybe one of the things
we could look at is what if we look at maybe changing the speed limit to lowering it something to something less than
40 miles an hour In there I know 46 through Ellisville they just Reduced the speed limit in there from
45 to 35 the state highway did that themselves So maybe that could be one of our options to have further
look at what happens when we get the new the new Design or plan is completed and maybe look at reducing
the speeds Thank You mr. Coppock Other members
Mr. Flaherty sure I appreciate All the advocacy that folks from the neighborhood have have brought and
and I appreciate the point mr Stossberg made that some aspects of this may well have merit but not be
something that we decided to move forward with at this time on the basis of opportunity cost
and prioritization aimed at an objective and equitable approach to addressing the most significant safety
challenges in the city and
I think on top of that, I generally have fairly strong deference for staff with respect to engineering
expertise on warrants for things like signals, et cetera, and whether or not they, in particular, may
have unintended consequences, including safety, worsening safety, which may well be the case here. So
for that reason, I'm not in favor, I guess, of at least moving forward
I'm not in favor of a petition coming to do most of the things that the neighborhood was asking for.
I know there was kind of a list, and that given that we are in the midst of finalizing a conversion
that should address some of the worst aspects of this issue, in particular the speeding, especially
from folks from the north headed southbound, my inclination would be to wait and get more data and assess.
Think the speed, you know echoing the same point about the speed limit signs I think that I don't know
if that we need to wait on more data to consider that but I do wonder if that's in another good option
some of me I think there's some other lower cost options that could address potential for traffic calming
if even speed limits didn't have it Have the intended effect Etc. So maybe there are things that are
being you know, again We wait we learn more from the updates and then there are some additional options that are
At least somewhat low barrier relatively speaking compared to a traffic signal and some of the other
things that have been discussed So I think that's where I sit on it currently. Thank you for the for
the thoughts from members anybody Mr. Drumme I agree with with staffs recommendation of us. I think
we should see how the current Work impacts speed I would be in favor if it were ever an issue for this
from for me to decide to
might as well lower the speed limits anyway. I mean, even if 10% of the people with the lane reduction
from two to one, if one person drives the speed limit, everybody behind them's gonna be driving the
speed limit too. So I hope we don't live in a world where those things don't matter. And if there is
ever enforcement, obviously getting a ticket going 25 miles an hour over the speed limit is way worse
than going 10 over.
So but I do think I would like to see how the current renovations play out and see how that impacts
the livability of the area and from there Thank you further comments from members On my left anybody
on my right Okay, I want to say one thing I was wrong about
The old name of this road. It was never old state road 37 that runs through lower cascades. It crosses
this road at That light further on this road on Google Maps is still listed both as Walnut Street and
State Road 37 North State Road 37 business There you go. So that definitely Underscores its
lineage if you'll forgive the term as a highway it was designed as a highway is meant to to move cars
fast in and out of town and All the businesses and neighbors that cropped up Did so after the road was
created. This was the main way in and out of town Or old 37 was Of course it is still a main way in
and out of town it's still faster for many people to take a
North State Road 37 business then to go all the way out to 69 So Part of me is unsympathetic to the
problem that Blue Ridge faces because It's a highway and I think they knew that when they moved in on
the other hand I get it. I think that they have more than a point a light would work a light would
Solved the problem to the satisfaction of the neighbors But as for all the things that other people
have said the Equity concerns. I mean, it's not the highest priority. There is another way in and out
of the neighborhood It would be inconvenient, but that maybe isn't enough to justify What the neighborhood
is proposing? I don't think we have enough information. I definitely would like more information and
Regardless of whether it would elevate to a petition. I think that I would move to ask for Traffic count
at this. Well, okay, I got it. I read it wrong I'm still a little embarrassed about that, but I would
like the counts of the hawk signal at Dunn north of 17th Street I would I also want to see what happens with the
the already happening improvements to the area as Modest as they are compared with the neighborhood
is asked for so I'm kind of ambivalent I don't I wouldn't entirely rule out a light but another thing
I think it would be useful to know is what is the actual cost what would the actual Cost be to to make
all the changes to the neighborhood has requested I think just as an exercise for any neighborhood.
It would be useful to say that
That the light that Blue Ridge requested would cost X dollars and that's generally how much it costs
to install a light If we were to instead do some kind of a traffic circle there, what would that cost?
like this is the first time we're taking inquiries like this and This is information that will be useful
to any neighborhood coming with a request as significant as this so I would
Would make a recognition for more information even if I don't think that any further action should come
from it. That's my take Still welcoming comment and feedback from other commissioners Seeing none we
need a motion I Can't make it because I'm the chair
Clarifying question. Do we need a motion to take no action or Yeah, we need we we need to dispose of
this was some kind of affirmative statement in any either we were Taking no action asking for information
or asking for petition to be made Thank you Anyone who wants to make a motion I Move that no further
action is warranted at this time Need a second second
Motion in a second Without any further ado, let's have a roll call vote on the motion to take no further
action Drummy Yes Flaherty. Yes Davis No Stossburg. Yes Copic. Yes Connell. Yes Boland no
Alright that by my count is a five to vote in favor of no further action I'm going to thank the petitioner
and staff for the presentation and the question and answer period Let's go now to discussion of topics
not on the docket. Are there any items that commissioners would like to to raise as No, there's just
two items on the agenda right now
Any items that members would like to discuss without? Presentation On my right on my left I did have
a couple of follow-up questions for staff based on last meeting Mr. Flaherty asked a question last meeting about
Who has jurisdiction on ultimate jurisdiction on transportation matters whether it's purely administrative
or whether council has a say And we talked about having city legal Present here. Do we have any update
on this? request Yeah, Andrew Seabor city engineer About a week and a half ago. I had a meeting with
city legal on this general question about
They at that time we were basically finalizing the packet for today's meeting so they were not prepared
for certainly this meeting I'm not sure about next meeting, but it's something they're working on and
for my discussion I understand they're in in dialogue with the council staff as well on that question,
so I don't have a significant update, but just know that conversation is happening and and hope at some
point to have them here when they're able to Share share an update
Okay, so you're saying that they They're not sure they're still working on it there they are I think
they're actively working on the legal questions And in dialogue with council staff and their opinions
of those questions, too That was a key other question was is council staff involved in that? That's
my understanding. Very good. Thank you Thank you, you might want to stay up here, but I'm not sure secondly,
mr. Flaherty asked a question about
Of bicycle traffic on the seven line. Do we have any updates on that? Yeah, I We have conducted counts
on the seven line It was maybe already a couple weeks ago, but we have not had a time to actually summarize
and digest those counts I can say
I've been told that the counts are less than they were but how much and the details of those I Don't
have that right now the fact that you're counting means that we can hope for a report at some point
of the near future That's fair perhaps at the next month's meeting. Yeah, that'd be great Yeah, mr.
Flaherty So mr. Seabour, thank you. You did send an email to me as well About that question and part
of it was related to what was a permanent bike counter You mentioned at our previous meeting that it
was broken and not easily fixed and
In particular, you said the permanent bike counter stopped collecting data in March 2024. The fix is
not simple Engineering staff is working with P&T staff to think about potential future investments and
equipment like this and You're actively doing tube counts in the bike lane where we have prior count
data that we can compare I think that's what you were just referencing. Yep, the data and comparisons
will have limitations, but Will be something that can be reviewed
Can you speak any more to what you mean by the data and comparisons will have limitations? Is that a
function of the type of count or something like that? And then also It's it sounds like no fix for the
permanent permanent byte counter is anticipated at this time It's my understanding the permanent byte
counter is just a technology that is no longer Functional we got its use out of it. We have other ones
like it that are still collecting data, but I don't think we're
It's not like a simple battery replacement. So it's it's a bigger effort and then Trying to remember
exactly what I said and what I was thinking at the time But just the limitation count the tube counts
are you know, that's collecting a two-day period count compared to a permanent counter That's collecting
it. You know, it depends when was a football game who's in town. There's just variation in weather So
that's a limitation and then just there's a lot of outside factors between
Stop signs the poplar's redevelopment project. There's a lot of things but wanting to we'll share the
data And so are two counts like quite like time limited like you only put them out for a certain number
of days or something Yeah, we typically put them out for at least two full typically midweek days. I
can't remember how long these were out So it's just it's compared to a permanent count. It's 24-7 right
different. Thank you. Yep The last thing I had was
any clarification on parking so I made a half-hearted attempt to follow up when Michelle wall contacted
me about setting up a meeting as we talked about last meeting to discuss the parking report that they
solicited but By the time I had gotten back to her she said that that decision to schedule that meeting
was out of her hands and back and
Commission staff's hands. So can somebody clarify where we are with that? Yeah, I've been in communication
with Michelle She's on a vacation today as is the consultant. Otherwise, they probably would be here
today, but they just couldn't My hope I'm I don't have hundred percent certainty But my hope is that
at your next meeting the first hour of it will be dedicated to discussion about the parking study in
one of the planning session type formats so more to come but that is
Think what is likely to be expected and this will be an opportunity for them to gather input from the
Commission Not simply a report of what they've already done. Yeah, it's it's more of a I'll let Ryan
explain the process Yeah, well your question hit it right on the head. That is the goal of a planning
session is to help craft Whatever we're looking at in this case the parking study good Thank you. I
appreciate hearing that the last thing I would ask would be sort of
Highlight of potential future items that staff is planning to put on the docket for next meeting. I
Think I already I'm going by memory, but I know a big one on the next one We're hoping is that parking
study discussion and then I think another one that may be of interest is likely an update on the 10th
Street corridor study That's those are two that are likely next month and then likely come early next
year is likely
I'll pin it over what Ryan to confirm but college and one that'll be another one, but probably early
next year But there's there's others. Those are the some big ones off the top my head. Do you expect
any cases? Probably okay
All right with that we go now to general public comment on items not on the docket. Is there any oh,
mr Sorry, I I do have a quick I should have maybe done it earlier, but I just this one's really quick
College and walnut corridor study. There will be two public meetings and you're encouraged to come to
one or both of those They are open house format We'll have two design alternatives for the public to
come in look at and make some comments on and help us guide that decision that will be on Tuesday
October 28th right here in this room and then again on Thursday Thursday the 30th that's how numbers
work Yeah at both at 530 right here this room. They'll be essentially the same meeting So you don't
have to come to both but you're encouraged to come to either of both and then yes I can confirm that
10th Street will be a petition that should be on next month's agenda. We'll also have a formal calendar
for 2026 we had to wait for
BPW Plan Commission and Park Commission to finalize their schedules Are we still talking about third
Monday for those meetings We yeah with that was kind of gonna be our plan, but we're open to basically
any day other than Wednesday Yeah, this is my point to tell commissioners that if you have any qualms
at all about this meeting time This is the month to think about it I can already say that
I've taken on another commitment that meets at the exact same time I'm not sure whether I can get that
body to meet at a different time. I hope that I can but I wouldn't mind like the second week instead
of the third week, but this is Something that we should all think about in time for the November meeting
Any other questions or comments from members before we go to general public I
Time for a general public comment and items not on the docket If there is someone on zoom or in the
room who would like to speak to an item that we did not already discuss today Please come to the podium
sign in state your name. You'll have three minutes Is there anyone in the room who would like to speak?
Is there anyone on zoom who would like to speak, please raise your hand Keep it open other few seconds.
Please raise your hand and zoom if you'd like to speak to an item that is not on our agenda today today
Going once
Twice That's it. All right, and with no further business I entertain a motion to adjourn be adjourned
their second This meeting is adjourned