- This meeting will come to order. This is the May meeting of the Bloomington Transportation Commission.
- Can we please have a roll call? Should be not needed. Thank you. Thank you.
- Go ahead. Copic. Here. Sturmitis. Here. Binder. Vollen. Here. Drummey. Here. Flaherty. Davis.
- Strasburg here Okay, we have a quorum today's agenda includes reports from staff including Road closure
- on West Clubhouse Drive bridge hundred needed the order update presentation of a pedestrian facilities
- operation plan citywide traffic signal of retiming project update traffic calming and Greenways program
- request for 2026 and
- on an update on the Roger Street project as well as feedback on the transition plan. There are no cases
- scheduled for today as far as items that are not on the docket for discussion. We will take up the college
- model covenant or intersection evaluation update the Smith and Morningside intersection evaluation update
- and Carla Street's Title 15 amendment ordinance being brought by Councilman Rosenberger that I've asked
- to be put on the docket.
- And then we will go to general public comment before we adjourn. Let's start with Let's start with reports
- from commissioners. Are there any commissioners who have a report they'd like to make on my right On
- my left I was just Osborne. Yeah Partly to inform the work that we do here I'm working on a project
- to bike or walk every navigable path in Bloomington
- including every cul-de-sac bike path and apartment complex. I'm currently about 340 miles into this
- out of 420 about another 90 miles to go. I may have more reflections when I get closer but one I'll
- share now is that overall Bloomington has a lot of streets that are comfortable to bike on. We think
- of them often through a car lens of the busy roads we take from our home to shopping or work but many
- of the miles
- of roads we have in Bloomington are residential and quiet and I've now experienced getting from place
- to place from many directions and overall it's been fairly a pleasant experience to see the city by
- bike. So maybe more when I'm done. Thank you Mr. Sasberg. I'll just point out something we were talking
- about before the meeting which is it's pouring rain out as we speak and I was driving here on
- each third street where the The water is flooding so much that cars were actually driving the speed
- limit of 25 miles an hour. So I've already Started fielding requests from commissioners as to whether
- or not we can arrange to flood the streets more often. So it's a slow traffic down Anyway, let's go
- now to reports from staff Let's start with item one on the closure of the bridge and clubhouse drive
- and receive or welcome to
- City engineer just wanted to provide the Commission an update on something that recently had a press
- release And something that will also have additional dialogue at tomorrow's Board of Public Works meeting
- But on Friday of last week the city closed a section of Clubhouse Drive on the approaches to a bridge
- near the old State Road 37 intersection in lower cascades and
- This was in response to some information that the county shared with the city after they conducted a
- routine inspection of the facility and determined that The structure had some deficiencies and essentially
- suggested a lower weight limit on the structure The report didn't necessarily suggest the bridge or
- the road be closed but based on past experience on other structures that have relatively very low weight
- limits that the reality is that a lot of vehicles
- Exceed those weight limits. And so just to reduce the risk the expected risk that some drivers would
- exceed that weight limit the city closed a section of that road just to in the spirit of public safety
- Some interesting challenges with this structure are that the state law? Doesn't make it clear who owns
- the facility it is
- By definition it is it is more than 20 feet in span and so that generally takes it out of the city's
- responsibility and There are some interesting components about structures over 20 feet that are typically
- the county's responsibility But this bridge doesn't meet those so it's sort of in this this awkward
- place right now
- But right now the county has shared the information the city has taken some action to address safety
- and we expect to have additional dialogue on it but tomorrow at the board of public works meeting the
- board will be just essentially Validating the decision to close the road Until the facility is brought
- into compliance that something that could carry a higher weight And on that I'm happy to answer any questions
- Thank you for that report are there questions from commissioners about this on my left, mr Sasberg Will
- the facility remain open to pedestrians and cyclists? I Think that's there there is I believe a multi-use
- path adjacent to the structure But that is a detail we have it's all moving very fast But like another
- structure on Allen Street, it seems very possible to keep it open to that those users Thank you to my right
- I do I have struggled to understand the relationship between city and county with respect to bridges.
- So it was my understanding that basically any bridge in the city is effectively some of the county has
- to maintain and manage. But now you're saying that there are some there's a kind of a lower limit to
- that. Can you explain a little bit.
- Yeah, I think if you go back a few years in time Generally the the state law was a little more
- straightforward that if a structure was greater than 20 feet in length That was generally the county's
- responsibility but a couple in recent years the code was updated to basically state that some some reasonable
- things that like if a new structure was going to be added that the county would be
- Coordinated with and consulted as a part of the design and construction of such a structure But there
- was also a clause that said if it if it bridge was not inspected by the County for a certain period
- of time And they have not accepted into their inventory. It is not their responsibility. So this fits
- into that unique category where it is not
- By state code clearly a county maintained facility. So they haven't inspected it lately. That was the
- they have been but they didn't start until I believe 2024 or something to that. Okay, that's interesting
- So just to be clear the city can still build a bridge add to a bridge do what the city thinks it should
- as long as they coordinate with the county, but it doesn't mean the county owns the structure and
- We're not gonna build any covered bridges in it. I'm just trying to understand it I think generally
- the city's not in the business of building bridges We don't have that expertise and most of our roads
- already exist and they generally have bridges maintained and owned by the county But in potentially
- like new developments where there are new roads being built in those situations We would generally expect
- that the developer and coordination the city are also very much in coordination with the county Through
- that process in a way. It's sort of like what we do now with building
- permits that we have a sort of a contract. All of this one is kind of required by state law. That's
- what I would expect and we would want to make sure that the county is consulted and accepts that.
- Got it. Sorry. So the county has a bridge fund which is why they're responsible for bridges over 20
- feet. So the fact that you just don't inspect them makes it a city bridge. I mean the other bridges
- is the island street bridge one by the
- Traffic building correct and how is that not a county bridge been there for a hundred years the Allen
- Street Bridge Was a bridge managed and maintained by the county they inspected it Through one of their
- efforts basically said that it should have a certain weight limit But with a storage facility nearby
- there were frequent trucks exceeding that weight limit and so decided to close it
- So then the interesting thing is if it's closed to automobile traffic, then is it a bridge or is it
- not a bridge at a certain point? So so that is generally I would have from my perspective expect that
- it is still seen as a bridge But it has been sitting like that for some time When I'm a grant eat your
- heart out this is or is not a bridge Any more questions
- Thanks for the report. Let's move on now to the 180-day order update Yeah, so next one is me as well.
- So just wanted to continue the trend of keeping you posted on 180-day orders Since our last meeting
- I did or issue three new 180-day orders The first one 26-01 is essentially caught up or recognizing
- I think a series of stop controlled intersections that have been placed for years
- The the city accepted in into our inventory a couple years ago and we just missed adding these two code
- through that process So just bringing that into compliance with what was always the plan and has been
- in place The next one is 26-02 related to traffic control in the atlas on 17th subdivision This is a
- specific example of something we brought to you last month and so essentially just doing the order which
- we presented and you supported at our last meeting and
- Why we presented that one to you and not the prior is is we did make some changes from what was in the
- plan as a result of some feedback from transit and police. So that's why we did want to bring that to
- you first and then the third is a change in speed limit on East 11th Street where we recently installed
- some traffic calming.
- This was a project that we brought to you last year and you supported as well So those are the new orders
- that we issued and then I also wanted to just note that two additional orders have been extended since
- our last meeting Continuing the on-street parking clarifications. We made by the mills pool on West
- 14th Street and Some parking caught changes on 1st Street adjacent to the Hopewell neighborhood with
- that. I'm happy to answer any questions you have Thank you. Any questions on 180 day orders to my left?
- Right seeing none. Thank you for that report. Let's go now to The pedestrian facilities operation plan
- who's presenting this I see Adam Wason from Public Works Good evening commissioners Adam Wason Public
- Works director. Just wanted to give you an update on some work We've been doing across several different
- departments over the last year plus and here recently since
- Probably budget hearings this past fall. We've been discussing the idea of Working on a pedestrian facilities
- plan originally we were talking about it from the perspective of a sidewalk master plan But realized
- that you know a sidewalk master plan doesn't actually incorporate all the pedestrian facilities we have
- across the city so we Have been working with planning and transportation staff engineering staff and
- other city departments to
- Start putting together the framework of what would be involved with this and then want to over the next
- couple months engaged with Transportation Commission and others on taking some of the next steps what
- we're really working on here and looking at is
- Both a historical review of how are we how have we gotten where we're at with sidewalks in the community?
- What a city code looked at over the over time who's responsible for what and a big part of the responsibility
- component is even Defining what roles and responsibilities exist across the various city departments
- You know, I've been this is now my third administration. I've worked for we have turnover and just really
- defining across departments as we
- As staff turns over and everything else that folks know who's responsible for what areas of the pedestrian
- facilities across the community good examples, which department would be responsible for vegetative
- encroachment versus what departments responsible for
- Putting forward contracts for repair just all the different roles and responsibilities across the city
- because that hits hand from an inspection perspective it hits Obviously public works in the street division
- engineering gets involved quite a bit, etc also defining the
- Private property owner responsibilities making that very clear based on what city code says We're also
- going to be looking at and providing a lot of information on what programs exist elsewhere and in Bloomington
- to that are having success getting sidewalks improved so this could range from
- I'll just give you an example for the last several years. We've had budgeted dollars in the public works
- budget for what we call the sidewalk assistance program It's intended to assist low-income individuals
- with sidewalk repairs We're not super successful getting that money out the door because even though
- we're able to fund up to 50% and such
- It is often a cost that a low-income member of the community can't even absorb at a 50% rate So looking
- at what programs exist elsewhere to help Our residents make sidewalk repairs that are their responsibilities
- looking at Beyond that looking at Our maintenance and operations program
- Councilmember Flaherty and some of the council members last week had a deliberation session about snow
- control when it comes to Pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure across the community This would dovetail
- right into that help define the roles and responsibilities Look at how we prioritize where we make those
- efforts this last this last winter with that major snowfall provided a great example of we can't clear
- everything and
- but what should we focus on as far as high priority networks to get folks where they need to be? So
- long story short of it is we've been working internally a lot on this and now we're gonna be coming
- to the stage where we start putting out information on what we've collected, get it to the Transportation
- Commission in a more formal way, see where the Transportation Commission members wanna be more involved
- or less involved. So that was just the brief update. Happy to answer any questions you have and see
- if I can't answer them.
- Thanks for that presentation. Are there any questions from commissioners? To my right to my left. Mr.
- Drumming How long do we expect that it will last
- Sidewalks, I mean a properly installed sidewalk that doesn't have street trees that are gonna possibly
- You know impact it within five or ten years sidewalks. I mean good concrete work should be 30 year 20
- to 30 year minimum and you know Always dependent upon the quality of the concrete other things like
- that. But yeah, at least 20 year investment. I think I
- And that's and that leads me to my next question as I have some experience with street trees I know
- more about street trees and I'd like to know but how is there a way to tell the truth? Is there a way
- to have street trees and have nice sidewalks? Yeah, so that's a that's a big part of this too is you
- know That we'll look at is how does the unified development ordinance impact the sidewalk network? Well,
- we require street trees for all the right reasons is there a standard that we should change so that
- The street trees are in a bigger plot that aren't at as high of a risk of Heaving a sidewalk ideally.
- Yes, but you know, there's also all kinds of limitations when it comes to the development ordinance,
- etc but You know, and that's the other part of defining roles and responsibilities In our sidewalk plans
- that we've provided to the Board of Public Works over time and such, you know It's it was in my first
- years in public works as we were really thinking about sidewalks and such the conversation
- Came up about we were sending letters to folks to fix sidewalks that were damaged by city street trees
- So we technically own the tree How can we expect the homeowner then to make that repair if it's a tree
- that we own that damage the sidewalk so for the last
- 12ish years we've taken the perspective of if it's street tree damaged We're going to try to fix it
- when it comes to our attention and within the resources we have But it is a really good example of a
- question that should be discussed of you know What's the ideal situation to put a street tree in and
- have a sidewalk last as long as it possibly can in good condition? Yep further questions to my left
- couple I have a couple questions one is do you see this as becoming sort of a Component of the transportation
- plan. Yeah, absolutely. That was one point talking point. I didn't get to yeah Incorporating this into
- the transportation plan the safe streets for all program, you know, it all kind of melts together So
- it's kind of like a sub plan. Yeah for yeah, that's good. Yeah how How long do you expect the draft?
- Take I would like to work with you folks over the next couple months and kind of final We've got a lot
- of the bones in place. We got a lot of structure, but yeah, I just mean We're starting with a staff
- draft and then you'll bring it to us and and we'll talk about what we want to do with it if anything
- Yeah, so just just trying to get a sense of how much more time I'd say over the next quarter. We're
- trying to wrap it all up Okay, so maybe August September the other big component of this too that feeds
- in is we're wrapping up our
- sidewalk condition index data
- Collection efforts with IMS our subcontractor. This is the first time we've gone down every single city
- sidewalk with a UTV type of equipment that is And there we're going through all the quality control
- quality analysis right now with them We're hopeful that data is ready to go on the website in the next
- couple weeks It's been a long arduous process of going through and working with them on it But in the
- end, we're going to have the most robust set of data on the conditions of our sidewalk ever
- Well, thanks for that. And we look forward to seeing did you want us to look at any I mean, we'll work
- through Iris and everyone and get distributed what we want to you guys the commission members to offer
- review on because if you're looking for some feedback to structure it when we have spare CPU cycles
- in our agenda, it might be a good opportunity to to put that discussion in
- But even before the draft is done if you need the help, absolutely. All right. Thanks so much. Thank
- you all Let's move on now to an update on the citywide traffic signal of re-timing project who is presenting
- Hello, John Garzi traffic engineer This is a general update on the city's traffic signal or timing project
- The goal of this work is to improve safety improve consistency across the system and make signal operations
- more predictable for all users and
- So far, we have updated 63 signalized intersections across nine corridors. Most coordinated corridors
- have now been retimed, including downtown corridors like College Avenue, Wallant Street, where signal
- timing was adjusted to better align with the city's 20 mile per hour downtown speed limits. The project
- has also included several pedestrian safety improvements. That includes leading pedestrian intervals
- where pedestrians receive a short heads up start before vehicles receive a green indication, as well
- as rest and walk
- where the walk indication displays automatically. At this point the college mall road quarter is the
- only quarter still to be implemented along with isolated intersections throughout the city. In addition
- to the overall project rollout staff is also conducting field reviews to verify the timing. It's operating
- as intended and to identify opportunities for additional refinement. And with that I'm open to some
- questions.
- Thank you for that presentation Mr. Garzi. Are there any questions on this report from members to my
- right to my left Mr. Stossberg. We have budget challenges with the equipment upgrades to have all the
- signals timed as we would like the equipment ready for the kind of retiming we want to do for the general
- retiming. Yes.
- There are other changes that we would need to do upgrades to the signals like doing protected only left
- turns but for implementing LP eyes or leading pressure intervals and changing the phasing we have all
- the proper equipment for that. Thank you. I'm a little confused about the distinction you made about
- College Mall Road. It says you're saying that.
- The only corridor that has implemented signal timing is college mall or it's the last one that hasn't.
- That's the only one that has not been retimed. So everything else has been retimed. Every other coordinated
- corridor where the intersection before it is time so that cars moving down it can progress. That's the
- only one that hasn't been retimed. Okay. How many such quarters are there in Bloomington like that?
- There are nine.
- Did you say nine? Yes. Oh, I saw it was right there. It was right there. Okay. Like, um, third street
- is counted twice for the Western section and the Eastern section. Uh, when do you think the rest will
- be coordinated? Those final ones? Um, it's hard to say exactly when we'll do college mall. Um, we've,
- we've done some changes, but we're, we're observing them just to see how, how they turn out.
- I'd say maybe in like next, next month or two. Okay. So it's ongoing. Okay. Um, finally, um, can you,
- uh, clarify a little bit more what rest and walk means? So in other words, uh, does it mean that, uh,
- you don't see the blinking, don't walk aggressively telling you to stop or what does that mean? So the
- rest and walk means that when the vehicles in your same direction have a green time that the rest of
- the green time for the vehicles
- is shown for the pedestrian sign. Okay. Why is this significant? Um, the benefits are that people know
- when they can cross the street and same thing for people that are driving. They're also expecting pedestrians
- to be crossing. If the remainder of the time isn't shown on the pedestrian walk symbol, then a person
- driving may not expect a person to be walking.
- So in other words, it has to do with the clock that says the number of seconds that you have left to
- cross. Yeah, that's correct. So have you gotten rid of that clock? Is that the idea? No, the clock is
- just going to show the remainder of the time that the pedestrian has to cross the intersection. But
- it won't be red. It'll be white like it's a walk sign. Um, it will show the countdown once there is
- only enough time for a person to cross the street. So if like the signal is or if the cycle is 30 seconds,
- and it takes a pedestrian 15 seconds to walk. Once it goes down from 30 seconds to 15 seconds remaining,
- it'll go from the pedestrian symbol to the red hand, and then it'll count down from 15 all the way down
- to zero. So before, what was the typical? Before it would only show the pedestrian symbol for possibly
- half the time. And so you might have the walk symbol only for five seconds, and then it would count
- down from 25 to zero.
- And then after the pedestrian symbol goes to zero Vehicles are still given a green but the pedestrians
- don't have the green got it. All right now I understand Thank you for explaining rest and walk to me
- any other questions Mr. Drummey, I thought I understood rest and walk before you explained it so Which
- is not a criticism of you At one of these meetings there was a discussion about
- Setting changing I think there was about changing the signals so that there would always be a walk symbol
- No matter whether anyone activated any buttons or not. Is that related to rest and walk? It's another
- safety feature, but it's different than rest and walk that one's called pedestrian recall So without
- a person having to push the button it will always show that I will just assume that there's a person
- there to cross and
- It's like they could have come up with a better name than pedestrian recall, but what do I know seems
- like maybe oh always walk or something Yeah, they're complicated and then in terms of retiming the lights
- sometimes when I drive to work I drive down third Street headed west of my office is a third in college
- and Sometimes I will get every red light available Does that mean I'm doing something wrong or is it
- the light some have to sometimes have to resync or what? What would cause that?
- Um, it could be that you're driving either lower than speed limit. Yeah. If you're too slow, maybe if
- you're driving at the speed limit, it could just be that the number of vehicles that were expected to
- be at the intersection in front of you is is higher or lower. And so we've just given that next intersection
- and green time either later or sooner, but those are things that we were also also fine tuning.
- Is that all manual work like somebody has to go stand at the box next to the intersection and
- make adjustments or is that something you do? Digitally remotely you can do remotely Thank you There
- are no further questions move on to the next item on the agenda, thank you for the presentation mr.
- Garzi Traffic calming and greenways program requests for projects 2026 who is presenting this item?
- That would be me
- Over here Ryan Roebling from planning and transportation. Hello. Yes. Hello This is just an update that
- the 2026 neighborhood traffic calming program opened up we have We're looking for a neighborhood applicants
- from now until June 26th you have to submit a letter of intent to
- David brand has who is the alternative transportation coordinator in the planning and transportation
- department We sent a press release out on May 14th, and it's also available in your packet Last year
- you all approved the 11th Street traffic calming neighborhood traffic calming. That was the highest
- ranked project So we're excited to get to work on something this year We'll have a public meeting after
- we have a project selected and then it'll come to you all for review and then I'm happy to answer any questions
- Thanks for the presentation any questions about traffic calming while the traffic calming program to
- my left To my right Is this a program that individuals do or that neighborhoods do like how Who should
- think about doing this an individual can start it a neighborhood will you do need your neighbors signatures
- a handful of them during your letter of intent, but we can help you with that and
- You can ask any questions to David Brant as or Hank Duncan who is also familiar with the project but
- will get you as far as we can. But you will need to talk to some of your neighbors. And once again the
- deadline for people to apply for this year's program is June 5th 26th June 26th. So what is the letter
- of intent deadline Friday June 5th by 5 p.m. in this notice here.
- That's the pre-application meeting deadline. Yes, there's a pre-application meeting which you can have
- with David but you don't have to have that this year. Historically you did this year. We're going to
- try to do we found those to be less useful. So if you would like to get an early meeting you're welcome
- to do that still but really you would just need the letter of intent and then we'll reach out to you.
- Okay. Well again as from the plain reading of this document it says the deadline for letters of intent
- is Friday June 5th. Is that the.
- No it's June 26. So I don't know. Hold on. That's the next deadline for the pre-application meeting.
- I'm glad I asked. I will double check what I am 90 percent sure the actual deadline is June 26. I'll
- get that by the end of the meeting and update all of our numbers. OK. Well could we just.
- for the sake of people who are watching say that practically speaking June 26 is the deadline. I am
- happy to say that June 26 is the deadline for a letter and then and we're going to have another meeting
- between now and then so we can reiterate it on the at the June meeting. OK. Any other questions. Mr.
- Drummond I do. I'm sorry. Questions three questions I guess. But when I first moved to Bloomington as
- an adult in 2008 I remember someone said to me
- Bloomington will never install speed bumps again anywhere. And I haven't paid a lot of attention, but
- I think we've installed them in a few places since then. Is there any truth to, was there a time where
- we were, what is our current position on speed bumps and has that changed through the years?
- And is our speed, and I'm asking in relation to this project, if somebody came, the reason I asked the
- question is because one of my neighbors
- I mentioned this program to them, and they said, we need speed bumps. They don't live on my street.
- They live on a different street. But is that something that would be potentially a possibility with
- this project? Not with this project on all streets. This specific program is on neighborhood residential
- streets. So that is lower speed, lower volumes streets. There are traffic calming methods that we can
- implement.
- but not through this program, including speed humps on different streets. But for this specific program,
- it is only neighborhood residential streets. But don't we have speed bumps on neighborhood residential
- streets? Yeah. Like in Park Ridge or? Yes, absolutely. So this program would work for that type of street.
- And speed bumps, is there something about this program that prohibits speed bumps? Yeah. No, no, speed bumps.
- We don't generally do engineering could weigh in on why I don't know the technical details But speed
- humps and speed cushions and things like that we can't do Can can yeah, so on 11th Street we installed
- some speed cushions. Okay Point of clarification I believe I've highlighted this section that
- does specifically suggest speed cushions and speed humps as an appropriate proposal for this program
- Perhaps I should ask Mr. Drummy, before that answer, did you make a distinction between bumps, humps,
- and cushions? I feel like I'm in a pop song. No, no, no, I wasn't. Whatever the most modern version
- of it, what the rest of the world would call a speed bump, I mean, hump, whatever the newest, the latest
- and greatest, which I'm all in favor of, used to not as a younger person, but now I'm, as long as bikes
- can get around them without bumping, I'm good.
- Perhaps someone could just briefly Remind us how the definitions of these terms could somebody please
- do that. So speed hump and speed bump I think the average person thinks that they're the same thing
- and it makes sense Speed humps are the ones that are 12 feet across 12 feet wide. Those are the pretty
- standard ones that we use They don't have any cutouts speed bumps are the ones you typically see in
- parking lots and they're about two feet wide and
- For those, you would have to drive over them at five miles per hour. You mean deep as you're driving
- over it, it's two feet this way. And then the speed humps are how? About two feet. They could be one
- foot wide. They're one foot deep. And a speed bump is two feet. A speed hump would be 12 feet. And a
- speed bump would be about one foot or two foot. Oh, so in other words, they're much more abrupt, whereas
- speed humps are more gradual. Yeah, you wouldn't want to put a speed bump in the street unless you wanted
- someone to come to a complete stop.
- Okay, and a speed cushion and speed cushions are just like a speed hump So they're 12 feet deep but
- they have cutouts for transit emergency vehicles But just for larger vehicles the cutouts aren't intended
- for passenger vehicles So in other words the a speed cushion would only happen on a bus route Whereas
- speed hump can happen anywhere
- Well, you just you wouldn't use a speed hump on our arteries arterial roads. Is that the idea? Yeah,
- you would typically not traffic on the arterial road because you wouldn't want to discourage people
- from using the arterial roads You tend to put traffic calming on residential roads where people are
- using those as cut-through roads Okay, I hope that Satisfies all our questions It does for now and confirms.
- I'm just the average person. Thank you. Yeah Any further questions before we move on to the next item?
- Thanks again for the presentation. And again, reminder that anyone who wants to, uh, a resident
- of Bloomington who would like to see a traffic calming project done, uh, has until June 26th to send
- a letter of intent. Let's go now to an update on Roger street from Grimes, the third street, the project,
- Andrew Seaborg.
- Just update on our Roger Street project if you recall I think it was back in your March meeting Kendall
- provided an overview of that project and particularly focused on related title 15 change that reduced
- some on-street parking on Roger Street and also committed to following up with the neighborhoods and
- having some additional feedback and
- The concept that was presented and you did vote on So since that meeting he did have a series of neighborhood
- meetings with the Prospect Hill neighborhood He's also submitted mailings to the adjacent properties
- and reached out to council members And and collected an amount of feedback Really focused on the the
- area in the Prospect Hill neighborhood
- I'm wanting to also note though that he has not yet been able to have a similar meeting with McDowell
- Gardens neighborhood. So that is still forthcoming but specific to the section in Prospect Hill essentially
- received a lot of feedback. I could share some of his notes from you but what he heard over well from
- overall from that feedback and also in consultation with the planning department that has the ongoing
- corridor study.
- Is essentially that what was presented and what you voted on is the direction we're going to continue
- to proceed with through Prospect Hill. So essentially that has a refuge island in Roger Street for the
- Howe Street intersection and then bump outs at the Smith intersection and Prospect intersection
- So essentially we're maintaining what we presented and what you voted on in that segment and we are
- expecting to continue to do that for the McDowell Gardens where we had removed
- Parking to do bike lanes, but we just want to still know we are still meeting with that neighborhood
- That's still coming so I could go into more details from what he shared with you, but just wanted to
- give you that update Thank you for the report any questions to my left on Roger Street to my right My
- only question would be when Do you think the project will be complete I think
- By the end of this construction season, it will be complete this construction summer will be very busy
- and work will be starting here soon I think generally on the Grimes corridor, but this is a very large
- project that includes it was bit out as one. It's Kirkwood Rogers Grimes and Patterson And so it's a
- big project and so work will start soon and will be done this construction season I'm just asking because
- I'm anticipating future this item on the agenda in the future So I just want to know how much more to expect
- Sure, I think this item I think the main thing we would come back to you is is likely in in After we
- meet with McDowell Gardens in case just just provide a findings from that as we said we would Because
- this just the timing of this project ideally we would have done that before we brought the project to
- you But when we received funding that we weren't expecting in the timeline we did that's that's why
- we're in this Great. Thank you so much Let's go now to feedback on the ADA transition plan Who is?
- I believe I can present this is a very short note on behalf of Michael Shermus who came and presented
- a draft of the ADA transition plan He just wanted to provide a reminder that The deadline for receiving
- feedback is May 22nd. That's coming up in a few days and He just wanted to genuinely encourage everyone
- to participate take a look at it. I've provided a hyperlink to the press release
- Specific to this and I would encourage people interested in providing feedback to Utilize the press
- release as far as a best path for following up with that team And just to be clear the EDA transition
- plan is a document the city's creating that identifies accessibility barriers in city facilities programs
- services and activities and Outline steps to address them. Is this the first such plan we've done?
- I Don't believe so Okay, so this is the latest draft perhaps or I believe this is an update if staff
- want to if other staff want to chime in Andrew seabor city engineer. This is I think the current basically
- plan has been every two years. It's updated. So this is It's been two years, but it's been on that cycle
- for a number of years The prior version last was in place for a while, but we've had one for quite some time
- Do we generally receive? Comments that might be appropriate for such a plan even when we're not in the
- process of updating it. I Am probably not the best person to answer that Michael Shermus would be and
- I'd encourage you to reach out to him. Okay, that'd be great Any other questions on the ADA transition
- plan update again? We have till Friday May 22nd this Friday to submit comments to this plan To whom
- do they submit them? To whom?
- The press release indicates that they should be There is a feedback form in cited in the press release
- that's bton.in slash 26 ADA URL and That's the best place to submit your feedback. Thank you. Thank
- you very much. I
- We have we now go to the cases section of the meeting, but we have no cases scheduled So let's now go
- to discussion of topics not on the docket first up is an update on the college mall Covenanter Drive
- intersection evaluation who is presenting? That'll be me. Hello. Mr. Garzi John Garzi traffic engineer
- This item is the follow-up
- to a previous inquiry regarding pedestrian safety and left turn operations at College Mall Road and
- Covenanter Drive. We reviewed the intersection conditions, traffic volumes, crash history and field
- conditions. This intersection includes a neighborhood greenway crossing on Covenanter, protected and
- permissive left turn operations on all approaches, bike lanes on College Mall Road and fairly high traffic volumes.
- As part of the reviews staff evaluated 30 reported crashes over approximately five years. Recurring
- pattern involved left turning vehicles entering the path of opposing through traffic during permissive
- left turn operations. Staff also reviewed a pedestrian involved crash associated with the left turn
- movement. Based on the review we intend to move forward with several low cost near term improvements
- including left turn yield on green signage adding signage for the existing eastbound
- no turn on red restriction and refreshing faded pavement markings. Staff is also evaluating whether
- an LPI or a leading pedestrian interval may be appropriate at this location through the citywide signal
- or timing project. Given the Greenway crossing long term, we identified potential safety benefits associated
- with eliminating permissive left turns and moving forward or moving toward protected only left turn
- operations.
- However, the existing signal infrastructure cannot currently support that change without being upgraded
- We are also evaluating potential lighting improvements at the intersection I'm happy to take any questions
- All right. Thanks for the presentation. Are there questions on my right? Mr. Coppock So the leading
- pedestrian interval is that already in all directions except for the pedestrian crossing? Could you
- repeat that please is the leading pedestrian interval?
- Is it all red for all four legs of the intersection only for pedestrians to cross in? Yeah, so the the
- pedestrians would get approximately like a three head three second head start and While the pedestrians
- have a green time the vehicles would have a red Okay, mr. Jimmy With my questions regarding this the
- leading pedestrian interval as well and
- You said that you're still evaluating it Isn't generally speaking wouldn't the leading pedestrian interval
- always be safer for the pedestrian It would be so what is there to evaluate? I guess is my question.
- So when we I Think maybe in February we came to you all hasn't presented a policy about citywide timing
- and part of that was how we determined where and when to implement leading pedestrian intervals and
- And for that, we set a certain threshold, which is pretty low, based on pedestrian volumes. And the
- Covenanter College Mall area didn't meet that threshold, and so we didn't add any LPIs. But since it
- is a greenway, we are considering adding that just based on the context. Mr. Stosberg. Is there an expected
- timeline to be able to make the capital investment for the upgraded
- signaling. It's not clear exactly when we can make that investment. The main barrier to that is just
- prioritization. We could find the funding for this location but there are other intersections throughout
- the city that are higher on the priority list on the safe streets for all plan. They've ranked different
- intersections from highest to high and I think some of those other locations would be better for us to
- Upgrade first I Appreciate I'm familiar with that kind of prioritization But I also know that sometimes
- if things are on the near-term list then later it could be 10 or 20 years. So is there a their ballpark
- range Yeah, I don't have a ballpark range at this moment Thank you Let me let me go first Mr. Garzi, so
- The reason that this is getting the attention it's getting is because it's not just a normal intersection.
- It has a greenway running through it. Is that the idea. That's that's why it's getting this this extra
- attention. The extra attention that it's getting is because there was a collision with a pedestrian
- crossing and a left turning vehicle hitting them. And I believe last year it came to the commission and
- You had made an inquiry for us to look into this intersection and see how we can improve it. And so
- we're coming back just to show you our findings. How quickly we forget. Sorry. I do have trouble tracking
- projects from meeting to meeting. But secondly so just to get a clarification what you said to Mr. Drummey
- I didn't quite follow the thing about leading pedestrian intervals.
- Uh, why aren't they just de rigueur and, uh, why do we need to, why don't we, I didn't understand the
- answer to that question. I'm afraid. So your question is why don't we just do leading pedestrian intervals
- at all locations? Uh, as a matter of course. Yeah. Um, I don't think we really have a reason for not
- doing it. Um, we just set certain guidelines for when we would do it.
- And we made the qualifications for that fairly low we can always change that and so like right now We're
- reconsidering applying the LPI at this location. So it's not that we couldn't we just had a policy and
- said When an intersection meets this threshold, we'll do an LPI Okay, we'll go second round a question
- mr. Coppock Just For clarification. So who does the signal timing? adjustments is that done by
- You guys are a consultant or right now the city wide timing is done by a consultant but we are able
- to make those changes ourselves as well. And then how are the changes actually made. I mean is it can
- you do you do them on say a laptop or something take them out download them to the intersections that
- how it works these days. Yeah yeah basically we can go to the intersection we can change the timing
- and we can then upload it to the controller. OK thanks.
- Mr. Stossberg. Yeah, to clarify the leading pedestrian intervals, you're balancing throughput of traffic
- because this does slow down the cars a little bit with pedestrian safety. So at some threshold you have
- a lot of pedestrian volume. Clearly it's helpful. And at some other threshold where it's a very low
- pedestrian volume makes more sense to maybe prioritize the throughput of cars. That's what you're balancing.
- That's correct.
- That's good. Thanks. Mr. Drumming You this question may be it's a little bit off topic, but I've noticed
- that this intersection and I'm Looking in the other direction. So heading eastbound This happens and
- not be there is no as far as I know that you can turn red on right on red there Is there a reason is
- it which I is there a reason this intersection is not does not prohibit a right on red? I'm not aware
- why it doesn't prohibit it. It may just be that
- We don't have a sign at that location but my understanding is that this intersection is coded to have
- no right on red. OK. OK. Last time I thought about this intersection it was several years ago and it
- was about the idea that it was a prime location for a greenway with a more elaborate
- Infrastructure Perhaps even a protected bike lane at some point Are those is is what is the status of
- Covenant er as a I mean It's a greenway now, right is it going to be other plans to upgrade it infrastructure
- wise to make it a more Like a Covenant er has some even beyond this intersection of some pretty
- wide lanes and Where are we going with with that as a greenway? Does anybody know? I'm gonna defer to
- Andrew Sipo for this sure There was a time you probably would recall for I couldn't tell you what year
- but there was a bond package and
- That City Council approved that basically had a list of capital projects that were prioritized in order
- And and one of those bonds a protected bike lane project on coven enter was was included But I believe
- I'm going by memory years back. I think that was maybe the lowest priority project of that band bond
- project and essentially
- there was not sufficient funding to move that project forward certainly to a construction stage and
- since that time additional plans have been adopted that kind of Re-framed how we prioritize project
- from a SS for a type perspective. So you've nailed it. That's that's what I want to know is tell me
- how how the plans have changed since that bond was proposed and You know, what can we look forward to
- the SS for a related I think
- I'm just going by women. What's in my head here in the dark here? Yeah, but I think in short we are
- now prioritizing corridors based on what is seen as highest or high priority and I am just Guessing
- that coven enter in that stretch that a protected bike lane was identified on is not one of those higher
- priorities and so has been Deprioritized compared relative to other projects like 10th Street or something
- like that that has kind of been bumped up since that time
- Very good. Thank you for helping me rescue that memory. I appreciate it. Further questions
- on the intersection of College Mall and Covenanter to my right to my left. Mr. Seward I know I'm I just
- wanted to know we did put this item on discussion in case there was maybe comments from the I think
- maybe members of the public right. Be interested. No no that's we're getting to that. I just wanted
- to check with further questions before we go to the public.
- So again this is a discussion of topics that are not otherwise on the docket as a case if there is but
- we would like to take public comment on it if there's any member of the public who would like to comment
- on the intersection of College Mall and Covenanter please come to the podium state your name you'll
- have three minutes if you're online please raise your hand and zoom and you'll be called in due order.
- My name is Laura Gao. I live on Fair Oaks Lane. I'm a neighbor of that intersection. I was struck on
- December 17th, 2025, or 24 at that intersection, and was wounded. And the man who ran into me with his
- pickup truck was not cited for a moving violation. And I came and I brought this in.
- I thought what can I do to make this a better situation? I can take it to the Traffic Commission to
- improve the safety and I can try to get the record state straight with the police as There are representative
- of the police here today or is some as a police person listening online? I don't know I Thank the Traffic
- Commission for looking into this and for making a plan for for the future
- I am very glad to hear that stationary signs Saying to obey the left turn to seed the right-of-way is
- going in and I hope leading pedestrian Interval will be installed at that intersection the rest of what
- I have that I would say that probably doesn't
- pertain to what your work is regarding the police, because you have a safe street policy, and you can
- make the safest streets possible, make the best speed limits, put your infrastructure in place, but
- if the police don't enforce the law, that's my beef. And I have some things I could say to that, but
- I don't know that this is the best place if there's no police representation here. It's not inappropriate.
- I would encourage you to continue.
- All right, it's gonna take me about three minutes to read it. The chief of police said when we talked
- about this intersection in November of last year, do you think that giving that driver a ticket would
- make a better driver of him? And I would say that the answer is yes. You can, as I said, if you have
- all the work done by this group, but the police don't enforce the rules of the community, it's like
- playing a board game without rules, but with much graver consequences. As I was hit,
- By an inattentive driver while crossing in the pedestrian crosswalk and the inattentive driver was not
- cited with the moving violation I thought what next not giving tickets first for running stoplights
- and hitting kids and unfortunately that has been put to the test and A child was hit by somebody running
- a stoplight Excuse me a stop sign and and the driver was not cited. I
- I would repeat to this commission that in explaining what happened to me as I was going around recuperating
- with my broken arm, every person who heard my tale was indignant that the police had not given the driver
- a moving violation. They were just incredulous. Further, after this testimony to the commission, I was
- talking to a group of eight women who are older, and several of them had moved to Bloomington community
- recently. These women
- were also indignant, but they also said that in this community, as in no place they had ever lived before,
- running of red lights was done with no repercussions. You never saw traffic stops for egregious violations
- of running red lights. And the police chief asked, will giving the ticket make a better driver? And
- I would say yes. There are repercussions for operating a vehicle inattentively, while distracted, inebriated, or high.
- Say yes, there are repercussions It acts on mortgage and then just the driver since other drivers see
- the ticket being given in conversation with people That hear of the ticket it will spread the word tickets
- are given there are repercussions for breaking the laws pause you here because your time is up with
- the anyone like to make a motion to allow her to continue Mr. Stossberg I make a motion to let her finish
- her statement. Is there a second? I
- All in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. Please continue, you have three more minutes. Thank you.
- And so people will take note if tickets are given. Further, there's a cost to the community in sending
- out an emergency response team. And if the ticket is given, it has the person who caused the problem
- have some cost, some skin in the game for the community having to send out the emergency response group.
- Furthermore, if you report with the citation what has happened, it makes crash analyses and the law
- enforcement and the insurers that have to deal with that driver in the future know what has happened.
- If litigation is needed, the police record reflecting reality is crucial as well.
- The police chief said we would not like it if this community was one in which the police gave out traffic
- tickets. I have lived in a community where tickets were given out liberally, almost predatorily, College
- Station, Texas. That community abided by the traffic law in an amazing way because they knew they would
- get tickets. The Transportation Committee is doing the best they can
- get the place safe, but they can't enforce the law. The victims can't enforce the law. The police has
- to do that. The police are those who can give the tickets, who can enforce the laws of the community.
- And this includes not just for transportation with vehicles, but pedestrians and bicycles as well. And
- I would beg that the police do the job that is theirs to do. Thank you. Thank you. Is there further
- public comment? Is there anyone online? I have.
- Hopi s online they should be able to unmute Please state your name and you'll have three minutes Hi,
- this is Hopi Stasberg. I just wanted to bring up something that hasn't been mentioned as part of this
- intersection Heading if if you are heading East through it on a bicycle You can't trigger the traffic
- light to turn
- And so I'm just hoping that while we're talking about this intersection and while engineering is focused
- on it, something is done about that. I have sat there on a bicycle before and gone through a couple
- of different cycles and then ultimately had to essentially run a red light as safely as possible in
- order to get through that intersection because if a car is not coming, then I as a bicycle am just sitting
- there. So I hope that something else
- happens with regard to that at this intersection too. Thanks. Thank you. Any further public comment
- in chamber or online. I have Paul Rousseau who should be able to unmute. Please go ahead. You'll have
- three minutes. Please state your name. Hi Paul Rousseau. I would like to strongly support the comment
- of the first public commenter when she was struck by a car. It's a very similar experience.
- Two years ago, June of 2024, as some of you may already know, I was struck by a car and thrown up over
- the hood and nearly killed. I was waiting at a stop sign at East Third Street and Heritage. And the
- driver made a fast left turn so fast that she went into my side of the street, probably hit me at about
- 25 miles an hour and broke my leg in four places. It was a life-changing injury. What I'd like to address tonight
- is the fact that a year after the crash, I contacted the responding officer and I asked him, was the
- motor vehicle driver cited for moving violation? And I asked about whether the driver had been tested
- for THC or alcohol. None of that was done. The driver wasn't even cited. Her windshield was spidered,
- my leg was out
- split out into the road and I'm lying and screaming my head off and I'm on my side of the lane. And
- he said to me, for us to cite a vehicle, I'm reading now from his email he sent me, for us to cite a
- vehicle for any infraction would require us to see the infraction happen. I don't know what to say about
- that. That's insane.
- And I have not been able to ask the chief of police to verify that, but I hate, I suppose he probably
- would, especially after the comment by the first member of the public tonight. I detect this particular
- officer who helped me was actually very friendly, but he was apparently telling me what the city policy
- was. It wasn't his decision, I guess. Um,
- I detect overall though a real dismissiveness on the part of our police with respect to pedestrian and
- bicycle safety. And it's got to end. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any further comments from members
- of the public either in the room or online? Going twice. All right. Let's come back to second round
- questions from commissioners.
- Any second round questions follow-ups? Mr. Sossberg Thank you all for your public testimony I've also
- been hit by a car while riding my bike and it's not something I care to repeat I recall that after this
- case came before us last time we passed two resolutions one was about the physical facility
- of the intersection that the other one was directing the city to look into aligning our ticketing policies
- along with our safe streets per all plan and
- And I believe that's something we're still waiting to have come back to us. Do you, do you share this
- recollection? Mr. Seaborn, Mr. Roblin? Yes, that is correct. That was the resolution and we are still
- working towards that. That'll take a little bit more time than the engineering. Okay. So thankfully
- with that still in progress, we may have hopefully some positives, uh, something to report in the future.
- Just to be clear, you're saying that there's a resolution in development, not one that we've adopted.
- We passed a motion to direct the city to align ticketing policies to with our safe streets for all goals
- Okay, so that's in the works, but it's not come before us yet. Correct. Okay further questions Mr. Drummond,
- it's maybe a question for ourselves, but while we're on the topic of this intersection One of the public
- commenters mentioned and I'm familiar with the same
- Oftentimes I'll get on my bike and hop over the curb and go push the pedestrian button to make the light
- trigger which is not well, which is not not everybody can do or things to do but But also the no turn
- on red issue. Is that something we can ask? Those two things we looked into further or do we need to
- present a new case? Well, that brings me to the thing I was going to say to
- Introduce the discussion portion of this topic, which is I frankly I consider this portion of our meeting
- to be perhaps one of the greatest Process innovations that I've seen in my time involved with the city
- We are free Thanks to this Structure to discuss anything we've heard today. We are not voting on an
- item that has been set out for us and
- with language that we're you know recommending be adopted as city code or Has a new plan or what have
- you? we have the option to make one or more motions to direct staff to T up a resolution to tee up even
- an inquiry and that this portion gives us the freedom to
- Go a field from the point of the main topic which was this intersection to talk about what the more
- general point of what's the point of fixing it if there's no law enforcement at this intersection or
- other places. So no commissioner has to make a proposal let alone right now. This is all fodder for
- thought. But if a commissioner was so moved to say I think that we should
- Direct staff to drop a resolution direct staff to put an inquiry on the agenda That would be an appropriate
- motion to make so with that I just want to open the floor for You know for that everyone has come here
- to see what we think of This this this issue so have at it, please
- What do you all think? Think out loud. Mr. Stossberg. Miss Gal report mentioned this is not a one off
- incident. Mr. Russo happened again at Smith and Morningside. We have not just isolated incidents but
- a pattern of vulnerable road users being struck by
- Motorists when it was clearly their fault, there's evidence to support it and they are not being cited
- now I can understand if there's some level at which we can't write tickets for absolutely everything
- but that this is was the impotence for Predest passing the motion last time I believe we can draw a
- line where you can say when there's sufficient evidence when the people are vulnerable road users when
- it was someone's clearly at fault it does feel like we ought to be able to cite people and I hope this
- Something will come out of that emotion that we've we've passed that have this looked into further If
- I may ask do we know if this is a matter of state law or local law in other words Is it local law that
- prevents a BPD officer from writing a ticket or do to state law hold? Maybe there's a staff member who
- can answer that question Going by memory from when we had
- Police present at this meeting. I don't know if it's a law that is in place. It's more of a Practice
- or policy of the department. Okay, so then it is something within our control As a city, I believe it's
- driven partly by resource constraints as someone who does crash analysis We have like ten or so a day
- that involve often single or multiple vehicles Right, but this was a case where or whether we heard
- a case of a member of the public who said I was hit by
- buy a car I'm lying there in pain and the officer says I Can't do this without yes, you know, but I
- haven't seen it myself. Can we not change a policy like that? So again having to crash analysis if you
- if you narrow it down to just the bicycle pedestrian crashes It is a much smaller set. So I think perhaps
- If you look at only May have I feel like we have resources to do something as opposed to what we're
- doing now, which is
- hardly anything. Mr. Dummy. My observation like I've shared before I it's and it's not just Bloomington
- specific. I don't see many police officers issuing citations for crashes hardly. It's a rare exception
- to the rule. The police chief my memory is he said look this is for the lawyers to deal with and I appreciate
- his trust in my profession but but we don't
- We don't I don't have citations in my toolbox. That's not what I help can help do So I don't think there's
- a probe I mean there's it's I assume it violates the transportation or traffic code to run into somebody
- with your car It's just no different than if he comes upon the scene and it turns out the vehicle driver
- was Intoxicated he didn't see the driver driving the vehicle intoxicated so that they still arrest people
- on those grounds so I think it may go to the level of probable cause but
- I think it's more of an issue. My impression is it's the police chief says hey we have limited and I'm
- not I'm trying to paraphrase what he said. We have limited resources and this is not a resource we're
- focused on and just like if they want to focus on speeding or issuing speeding tickets or not. I mean
- I don't think there's I didn't understand there to be a policy that we're not going to issue tickets.
- It's more just the practice of the department. We're not going to issue tickets. But as I said in fairness
- It is this is not a Bloomington specific thing. This is I see and I have its statewide personal injury
- practice and I can count on one hand the number of citations I've seen except for drinking and driving
- is often there's often a recipe but otherwise using phones people they don't they don't they don't even
- if the even if the person admits they were looking at their phone there's no citation issue falling
- too closely speeding those types of things they're just hardly if there's a crash normally normally
- there is no citation issue. The police report is always done but no citation issue. So basically this
- is more of a state issue than a local one and that this is not uncommon practice among police departments.
- I don't know about the first part of your question but my experience is it's not uncommon. Now that
- doesn't mean we couldn't change or and I think we're I think we're actively trying to address it currently
- with the pending inquiry. And so maybe the right call is to
- wait till we get those results back No, I think you have mr. Stossberg so we are addressing this I think
- in the best possible way in terms of Using design to prevent injuries and as we do that the number of
- these Incidents will go down because the physical road designs will be safer and as that number goes
- down It does seem like it becomes more practical to cite the remaining cases and that's the hope
- I hope we can get to with safer street designs and then citations for a smaller remaining cases Anyone
- observations on my right Are there any as far as this particular design we are we are brought came to
- this topic because of College Mall and Covenanter Are there any observations or comments? Or motions
- that people would like to make about it Does it?
- Does it need further attention? Mr. Johnny, I'll make a motion I guess for an inquiry into the no turn
- on red signage and if there's reason that doesn't exist and also included in that motion an inquiry
- into whether the signal activation related to cyclists can be improved moving forward. Is there a second
- to that motion?
- We have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, we'll have a roll
- call vote on Mr. Drummey's motion. Mr. Garzi, can you give us a roll call vote? Just to those who are
- present, please. Copic? Yes. Mr. Midas?
- Yes, Jimmy. Yes Strasburg. Yes, that passes five zero any other motions on College Mall and Covenanter
- Seeing none I'll just say I still feel like the intersection as a whole I mean I while I was appreciated
- mr. Seaborg's
- extracting of that memory that we had talked about this intersection before like I'm thinking about
- the Rain example we talked earlier and the example of when snow falls that that intersection has always
- been pretty Thick shall we say like with with with space for cars to go nice and fast and I think that
- also contributes to it I'm a little disappointed to hear that
- There is that it's, I mean, I guess it's safe enough because it's not one of our highest priority
- intersections. But I did have the thought that Covenanter could have been made safer, a full greenway
- with protected lanes, but I can wait. On the other hand, I'm not sure. I hope that no one else will
- be unhappy that we waited.
- With that let's conclude this item and go now to the second Intersection evaluation update of the day
- the corner of Smith and Morningside Who is presenting? this update That will also be me. All right again
- garsey, please go ahead Okay, so this item is a follow-up To an inquiry regarding stop sign compliance
- pedestrian visibility and neighborhood greenway crossing safety at Smith Road and Morningside Drive and
- We reviewed traffic volumes, crash history, field conditions, and community concerns. The intersection
- currently operates as an all-way stop-controlled intersection with Smith Road functioning as the higher
- volume roadway compared to Morningside Drive. During field review, staff observed rolling stop behavior
- and reduced compliance on Smith Road approaches. We believe this may be partially related to
- driver expectation issues associated with the relatively low cross street traffic volumes on Morningside.
- We reviewed three reported crashes over the last five years, including a bicycle related injury crash
- within the crossing area. Based on the evaluation, we intend to move forward with several operational
- improvements intended to reinforce the stopping condition and improve visibility of the crossing. Proposed
- improvements include supplemental left side stop signs,
- on Smith Road approaches, replacement of the damaged southbound stop sign, and upgrading the existing
- crosswalk markings to high visibility continental crosswalks. At this time, we believe these are appropriate
- near-term improvements that can be implemented relatively quickly while continuing to monitor operations
- and safety conditions at this intersection. I'll take questions at this time. Thank you for the presentation.
- Are there questions on this update? To my left.
- To my right Seeing none are there members of the public who'd like to comment on this report Please
- come to the podium state your name. You'll have three minutes Patrick Martin. Are you a member of the
- public? Yes My name is Patrick Martin. I live at four four seven one East 3rd Street summer house this
- is just around the corner from me and
- Smith and Morningside is I go through this intersection as a pedestrian or as a bicyclist or as a runner
- Three two to three times a day. I don't drive through this intersection I fully support the
- staff recommendation on supplemental sub stop sign installations and yes, they do roll through there
- on Smith and also on the Continental style
- crosswalk markings. One thing I also want to note here too is that Morningside is a BT route and the
- buses go through there slowed down by the speed cushions. There are no cushions on Smith. There is on
- Morningside and that's why it's calm. And then also the park which is right there in the corner to that
- northeast corner. A lot of children crossing in this area quite frequently.
- Most of them are accompanied by parents, but every once in a while, they're not that's all I got to
- say. Thank you Thank you. I only asked because Mr. Martin is a member of city staff and I thought maybe
- he was here for a different reason Any other members of the public who'd like to speak to this issue,
- please raise your hand and zoom you'll be called if you are online Or you could just thunder your request
- I have a Darrell on Zoom who should be able to unmute. All right, please state your name. You'll have
- three minutes to comment. Please go ahead. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes, we can. Okay. I was having
- technical difficulties with the buttons.
- My name is Darrell Boggess, B-O-G-G-E-S-S. I was at the previous meeting. I decided to avoid the risk
- of rain tonight. So I have spoken with staff previously about the range of options. I appreciate what
- they are attempting to accomplish. However, I take exception with the extent of their
- reaction to the perceived urgency of the circumstance. It appears they have chosen the lowest cost,
- easiest to implement response, which may or may not be effective. I hope and wish it will be effective.
- In reality, as a decades long resident,
- a Park Ridge East. I left three doors away from that intersection. I have seen and heard way too many
- incidents. And at the last meeting in council chambers, I was impressed. Some of you may recall my new
- neighbor at the corner of that intersection, right where the accident took place as a security camera
- at his garage.
- that was recording it at the time it happened. And during the meeting, he turned on his camera on his
- cell phone and he counted something like a dozen people that just rolled right on through, like there's
- no stop sign, anything there. So my concern is, which I voiced previously in writing,
- I think the real problem is the behavior of the drivers. It's a cut through from 10th to 3rd. These
- are neighbors, these are commuters, these are people who go through that intersection almost every day.
- They have grown accustomed to the California roll through technique.
- They maybe slow down. I've seen several people who did not even hesitate. They just blew right through.
- But it's become a matter of custom and personal habit. And I don't think having a stop sign on the left
- side of the intersection is going to be adequate to change behavior. I think they need some kind of
- a rumble strip, a physical reminder
- to slow down. So I hope we will come back and discuss this again later if it's not effective.
- Thank you. Thank you for your comment. Are there any other public comments on this item this this item
- the corner of Morningside and Smith have a Steve acres who should be able to unmute.
- Please go ahead and you'll have three minutes. Please state your name. Okay, I'm here. Can you hear
- me? Yes. Okay, great. My name is Steve acres. I'm a resident of Park Ridge and thrilled with our Greenway.
- But at the same time, we want to make our Greenway safe from Park Ridge to Park Ridge East and back
- and forth because we have a lot of kids and adults that pass through that intersection. So two items
- I'd like to bring up one would be
- Will you be developing some metrics after the enhancements that you propose to put in the additional
- stop signs and the crosswalk enhancements? Will you develop some metrics so that we can tell if the
- changes that you're going to implement are effective or not, if that's possible? And then secondly,
- what will be the
- timeline for implementation of the Enhancements that you've mentioned and thank you very much Thank
- you Further public comment if you're on zoom, please raise your hand. You'll be called if you're in
- the room, please come to the podium Second call for public comments All right coming back to thank you
- for the public comment let's come back now to the
- I'm so sorry. There was a late one. Oh, all right, just not too late. That was my fault Let's hear him
- Please state your name. You'll have three minutes Hi, my name is Brianna Alexander and I was also at
- the last meeting I am the mother of the little girl who is hit riding her bike at that intersection
- and I just wanted to echo the responses from the
- to other people who spoke and get some clarity around, is it the responsibility of interested parties
- to bring this topic up after the changes are implemented and we're not seeing change in behavior of
- the drivers? Does that complete your comment? Yes.
- Thank you for your comment. Further public comment. Last call for public comment. Okay. Let's come back
- for second round questions on the question of Smith and Morningside the intersection evaluation update.
- Anybody on my left. Any questions. We'll get the comments in a minute just if there's any last minute
- questions here because I have a few.
- Andrew will you guys be monitoring these improvements once they're done? Yes, we will We'll do a before
- study and an after study and to answer the question about the metrics We'll just measure stop
- sign compliance. Just see how many people are stopping and not stopping beforehand and then the same
- thing afterwards I have to follow up on that. Can you be more specific about how that works? How do you
- How do you measure people stopping? Do you actually sit there and count? That's correct. Uh, we would
- have staff grow out into the field and observe both the northbound and southbound direction. Um, since
- eastbound and westbound is not the issue, we'll just ignore that and just focus on Smith and we'll just
- observe people as they get to the intersection. If they actually come to a stop, we'll mark that. If
- they roll through without stopping, we'll mark that and we'll compare the total counts. Very good.
- Thank you, Mr. Stossberg.
- I'll phrase this as a question Our neighborhood greenway program does a great job with delivering a
- certain level of service for the roads We use a range of traffic calming metrics. We choose streets
- that are low volume if you're on this metric Network, you have a good guarantee That you're going to
- have a fairly safe route intersections produce a particular challenge because
- of their nature. Do we have a particular way that we try to guarantee a level of service as greenways
- pass through intersections as we do for the rest of the facilities? And if not, given a pattern of crashes
- where greenways, which we're trying to advertise as a safe network, pass through intersections, should
- we have some kind of level of service that we try to
- Guarantee for these greenways and intersections. It's a good question Can any staff member address it
- So your question is how do we guarantee that there's a certain level of service for people on the quarter
- I know that we can't necessarily but there's a kind of a disconnect these the rest of the facilities
- or traffic calmed I Write a lot of them and they're just consistently a safe comfortable environment
- And it's a kind of a promise that we're making to the users of the network This is a safe route. The
- intersections are also a part of the network How can we provide that same kind of promise or level of
- service as these routes traverse intersections? It's a great question, it's a hard and hard one to answer
- I think as I'm just was reflecting as you restated the question I
- Think I mean this really sincerely but I might want to rethink it a little bit more but I don't think
- we can make intersections as safe as we can make roadway segments like just by their nature that is
- where conflicts happen. So so by default they will not be as comfortable as the spots between
- them particularly where we get to the more major intersections like the two that we've been talking
- about tonight. So I think there is just a matter of they can't get to that same level but we want to
- still do all that we can.
- I am also just reflecting on when we do these projects They're usually from major intersection to major
- intersection and and making sure we are intentional about looking at those Endpoints as much as we are
- the in middle intersections And and some every intersection is unique every corridor has some unique
- features we apply a lot of the same tools but there they can look and feel different at different places and
- And by nature always stops are different than signals than two way stops versus other things. So, um,
- so it's just, uh, that's my honest, I don't know if I'm fully answering your question, but that was
- just the initial reactions I was having. I understand. It's a hard problem. Um, I noticed this on the
- Hawthorne greenway. I was heading north and it was like crossing neighborhood street, neighborhood street,
- neighborhood street. Suddenly I got to out water and it was much more dangerous intersection. But as
- I approached it, it felt the same.
- So maybe there's some things we can do to alert the cyclists or the road users. Hey, you're coming to
- a higher risk intersection, whether it's some colors or something. So that in addition, whatever we
- do for the road users to slow down, I think as cyclists, we learn ourselves and to teach our children
- to be defensive because the drivers are not really going to stop and we have to be prepared for that.
- Yeah I think that's that's a good point and that's a great example of we did a neighborhood greenway
- that really ended in many ways at a major corridor and the context there is very very different that
- was one of the critiques of it too is that we didn't do more at that time for for crossing at water
- but it does make it more obvious what that is whereas if we're looking at like an always stop
- Or it's sometimes you've heard probably in the past people being hesitant to mark crosswalks and only
- marking a crosswalk because that maybe implies a level of protection that Certain corridors you would
- want to do more than just do a crosswalk to make it a good crosswalk And so in some cases like this
- is an always stop so it may feel comfortable and safe but is it and those that have been talking know
- that it does have its challenges but
- From a more psychological perspective it has I get I think what you're saying An easier question and
- our long-term transportation plan we have grid connectivity and As I understand traffic work somewhat
- like fluid dynamics The traffic spreads out to use all the available routes people want to take the
- fastest route this particular part of town We have an ongoing interruption, which is a railroad track
- We don't have connectivity between Park Ridge East and Meadow Park Meadow Park is a private road network.
- It's not connected with the East East Eastern Heights across there. Is it the case if we could improve
- our grid connectivity that some of this traffic would then fan out and then there just would simply
- be less traffic at this intersection and
- The the theory yes, I think the more that we can have a robust network The more we distribute traffic
- and the more we can avoid having an intersection where one road has eight times the traffic of the other
- road To have those more balanced traffic flows We also being mindful of you know Not wanting to encourage
- more traffic on some residential streets at the same time But but generally yes, the theory is the more
- connectivity the better and then we can have those
- It does make things easier. Yeah, but those are not easy easy fixes. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah Questions
- to my right I wanted to ask about this solution This is sort of a minimal or like the it is it I don't
- know how to phrase it. I look at this intersection and I see another fat intersection This is lots lots of room
- for cars to go quickly. I've seen streets next down for pedestrians in more central parts of town and
- I recognize that installing curbs and bump outs and the like are expensive. Does staff see that as a
- second step if this solution isn't
- adequate? Can you talk about that a little? Yes, that would be correct. This is like our phase one,
- just to see if what can we do to encourage people to stop at the intersection? And then if people continue
- to not stop at the intersection, what else can we do? So it's like an incremental approach. Okay. And
- so you're going to take counts to try to see if the problem you can, you can measure whether the problem
- is being alleviated by the solution, but you're not afraid to do more. You just that you wanted to start
- with this.
- Yes, that's correct. Okay. Um, last question would be, uh, uh, what would be, let's say that the problem
- is not alleviated. Uh, what would be the next level of, of service that you would seek? Um, a big challenge
- that we have at this location is that it's an always stop and
- In order for us to apply some other treatments that we have on other greenways, like adding speed humps
- in advance of it or rapid flashing beacons, we wouldn't be able to have it be an all-way stop because
- we don't use those measures at all-way stop locations. And so if people continue to not stop at this
- location, we would most likely recommend that we would remove the stop sign. It sounds counterintuitive,
- But by removing the stop sign on Smith Road, it would allow us to implement other measures, like traffic
- calming on the block or the rapid flashing beacons. And that would be similar to what we've done on
- other greenways. In other words, you're suggesting that if you can't beat them, join them, let them
- roll through the intersection, but only if we force them to go at a
- Steady slow rate of speed in that area. Is that mr. Seaborg I see Yeah, I think that's that's right
- and I agree with everything that that mr. Garzi just noted and I was just having reflections to past
- debates about other intersections in the community and
- Remembering a question that that somebody asked it might have been in a city council meeting But like
- if we were starting from scratch, what would you do? Yeah, and so I think what was described just to
- you is certainly a very realistic option There are other options that have their they all there's no
- great thing But like from scratch like this is a very big intersection if we were designing a neighborhood
- intersection and
- We probably wouldn't have a median in the center of it. We would have the roads be narrow or we'd have
- bike lanes of appropriate width or if there weren't bike lanes we'd be doing bump outs there would just
- it would just be but that becomes a much bigger project and And then it becomes back to the
- word prioritization on how much to invest We have taken always stops in the community that were big
- and as we've done resurfacing projects and things or neat not even always stops but tried to gradually
- Remove excess width we've we've brought brought some of them to you and we've done some before this
- Commission So those would be other things that could be explored So just give there's a menu of options
- But I think what we shared is is also a very very real option that we'd be looking at No, it's well
- answered and I appreciate it. I guess my last question would be how When should we check back?
- In other words, how long will it take to evaluate, to implement this solution and then to evaluate it?
- I think a realistic timeline would be a month or two. Just for us to do that quickly. Yeah. Uh, because
- we would just need to do a study beforehand. It would just mostly depend on staff time and availability
- to go out. Um, then for us to coordinate with our shops to install the signs and then for us to do a
- step, the post study.
- Would it be safe to ask for an update again in August? Three months from now. I think that would be
- fair. Um, I think for us to do the before and after study during the summer break would be an ideal
- timeframe just because we don't have fluctuations with students coming back or the school year starting
- again. I mean you don't think that the relative, uh, lower traffic counts, uh, would, uh,
- Make it I mean wouldn't higher traffic counts show you a different set of data It would show a different
- set of data But if we at least have for the before and after with that same level of volume, it would
- be comparable Okay. All right. Well, so at the very least I hope that we'll get an update in August
- but now we come to the discussion of the case among members if these questions haven't satisfied your
- interest is What do we all think of this?
- And what if any motions might we like to make to call for further action. Mr. Drummond I appreciate
- the work the staff has done. I find this problem just to be depressing because it seems like I mean
- as long as we're still if we're going to use our phones when we drive and not figure out that problem
- then we can put up 50 stop signs at this intersection but if you don't see them and
- You don't stop and then people get hurt. So it's but I I understand I understand the reasoning and and
- And then it very interesting to the statement about taking out the stop signs and how that could make
- it safer But that that it makes sense why that would be the case. So that's my only comment Stasberg
- I also appreciate the fast action here. I am a neighbor to this intersection I have a daughter named
- Lena as well and we've biked through that intersection and
- I also appreciate the big picture that the Staff is doing they have objective system-wide priority and
- they are working through those in a systematic way that includes cost number of crashes High volume
- and all these metrics that make sense And so I realize there's this intersection is hard to fix in a
- better way and I think
- We will eventually get to a bigger longer term fix as time and budget allow. So thank you. Thank you.
- Comments to my right. All right. I don't think any further action needs to happen. I think that with
- the exception of stop signs on Smith whatever they might put in is worth putting in anyway.
- And that if further remedies needed to come forward, I mean, it's still going to be helpful to have
- zebra stripes, you know for pedestrians there I Find myself sometimes doing a thousand-yard stare as
- well just like oh that's probably the way we're getting a slow exposure to the world of of what engineers
- You know cope with and and are trying to solve and it's non-trivial I think it's fantastic that we can
- Hope to get a feedback on the implementation so quickly I think that three months is a very reasonable
- amount of time a little surprised that it could happen that quickly I guess because the the changes
- are light but I Will not be surprised at all if we come back for more Again if the Smith is eight times
- the traffic of Morningside
- And the intersection is as vast as it is, uh, that it encourages, uh, right turn on red and the like.
- Um, I mean, uh, just looking at that, um, that crosswalk, uh, going the cross, the North South crosswalks
- are extremely long. Uh, I'm so used to seeing bump outs downtown where the, the, we've, we've sort of
- rescued the intersection from the right turning car that
- It's almost a shock to to realize how this is how we used to build our intersections. So I don't have
- anything more to add. I also just want to say that the comments that people made on this intersection
- really moved us to ask questions in a way that we didn't know how to ask. And I was grateful for all
- the public comment that came in and I asked them all to please keep it up.
- Any other comments before we move on mr. Robling? Sorry, normally I wouldn't jump in here, but just
- wanted to update for we have about 15 listeners in Then there will be no August meeting. So the earliest
- meeting this could be is September 28th I suspected that I in the back of my head. I was thinking I
- wonder if there's an August meeting. So You've got an extra month engineering Let's look forward to
- seeing a report on the
- an update on this at the September meeting. Thanks for the catch, Mr. Humbling. All right, if there's
- no other comment on that, we'll go to the third item on the agenda, if I can find it here. This is one
- I put up and again, I wanna apologize to Mr. Seaborg for the way I put this on the agenda because I
- did not follow procedure. It should have been submitted by May the 4th and I did not submit it till
- May the 8th.
- Nevertheless because it's only an item for discussion And we've already seen the benefit of this portion
- of our period I thought it was still appropriate to ask to have on the agenda But I just want to point
- out that staff has not Submitted a memo on this. In fact, we're gonna get a presentation now. It's a
- An ordinance proposal from councilmember
- Kate Rosenbarger who's here in the room and I'd like to ask her to come now and make her presentation.
- This is on an amendment she's proposing to title 15 on Carla streets. Ms. Rosenbarger thank you for
- being here and welcome. And I guess her slides. Here we go. Hi. Thank you. My name is Kate Rosenbarger
- City Council District 2.
- Today sorry these slides were also very late everyone But thank you to city staff for getting them in
- this packet or out to everyone So my colleague councilmember Courtney Daly and I are working on an ordinance
- that amends title 15 vehicles and traffic and it would create a chapter in that in that section of code for
- Streets and alleys that are closed to vehicular travel. So the ordinance is a draft. I just want to
- give a little process first It's coming before council on Wednesday this Wednesday, May 20th If it gets
- introduced that will be first reading where the plan is to have a conversation with council members
- and staff and department heads about the potential closure and amendments so
- Next slide here is a little roadmap for the discussion today It will start with where are we now? And
- so we'll talk about the process to date and the ordinance that is currently in existence ordinance 2502
- It was establishing the outdoor dining program and in it amends title 15 and other titles of
- that create a car free Kirkwood on specific blocks for specific months of the year. And then the second
- part today we can talk about what are we fixing. So this is adding language to title 15 again to create
- that chapter for vehicle free streets and alleys and the other
- Part of this is really further clarifying the intent of City Council when we passed the ordinance 2502
- to have certain blocks of Kirkwood Avenue car free except in emergencies. So I do too just want to say
- this is very much of course this is on the discussion discussion section of your all's agenda and this
- very much is a discussion as it will be on Wednesday.
- I mostly have my laptop here to like take questions and comments from you all. So again, just very much
- appreciated. So a little bit of the where are we now in 2025. So ordinance 2502 establish the outdoor
- dining program. And these are some of the where as clauses for the purpose of this program and to sort
- of also go through the history of the program.
- The city I can read these I guess if that is helpful a lot of thumbs up from the commissioners great.
- Okay, nobody moved whereas the city also temporarily closed portions of Kirkwood Avenue to make it available
- for enhanced social dining and outdoor seating and whereas due to the success of the program the Common
- Council expanded and extended the outdoor dining program
- in ordinance 22 0 1 resolution 23 0 4 and resolution 24 0 5. That was street areas only that year because
- we had a lot of construction and sewer work I think on Kirkwood and whereas the program continues to
- add vibrancy to our downtown and add health and use of our downtown business community.
- And whereas the Common Council is committed to activating Kirkwood Avenue as a premier destination for
- commerce pedestrians civic engagement and community life fostering economic vitality and social interaction.
- And whereas the Common Council seeks to provide long term certainty to businesses residents and visitors.
- regarding parklets and the Kirkwood conversion allowing them to plan adapt and invest with confidence.
- And whereas the city desires to continue the outdoor dining program in the downtown and I left that
- strike through twenty twenty eight because the original ordinance twenty five oh two we that was sponsored
- by myself and council member sorry.
- And we had talked about reevaluating this program at the end of twenty twenty eight which we were also
- dealing with the parklets but it was council member sorry I think led this that it would create more
- predictability instability for businesses to plan with confidence as well as residents and their planning.
- If we did not have an end date to reevaluate but instead it just created an indefinite program and conversion.
- for every year. So then a little to show where are we now. Very similar place I would say this ordinance
- 26 1 2 somewhere as clauses that we took from the previous and 25 0 2 and some we changed around a little
- bit. Do you thumbs up want me to read these.
- Great good enthusiasm whereas the Common Council and resolution twenty five oh five that should say
- oh two is signaled a commitment to a predictable seasonal schedule and still seeks to provide long term
- certainty whereas the City Council is committed to activating Kirkwood as a premier destination. These
- are copies and whereas by form
- Formalizing this closure within title 15 the city establishes a transparent framework for governance
- allowing Allowing the city engineer that's a typo to manage emergencies while maintaining a consistent
- and predictable standard for the public So this is a little diving a little deeper into the changes
- that I want you all to be aware of and that I hope we discuss here and at council
- Twenty five oh two the city engineer in cases of emergency lack of preparation or any other reason that
- may render the program impractical can permanently or temporarily suspend the program in part or in
- whole and what we would like to change in twenty six one two would take out that part about lack of
- participation or any other reason and say in case of emergency in cases of emergency the city engineer
- may temporarily
- Restore motor vehicle traffic as authorized And this would so this would be in the form of City engineer
- proposing orders like 90 day orders or 180 day orders that we see in places like the seven line elsewhere
- The process and discussion so far is I
- So in February twenty twenty six there was a memo that was in front of council and it was when we learned
- that the outdoor dining portion of the program would not be continued based on lack of participation
- and impracticality citing the budget. And this came from the city engineer.
- In March I worked on just a very simple initial draft of this ordinance and shopped it around to a few
- folks on April 10th. I sent that draft via email to city directors so director of planning director
- of engineering ESD and the deputy mayor. I also sent to all eight of my council members and in each
- email I asked
- For feedback welcoming phone calls texts, you know emails getting together Collaboration questions everything
- there. That is where councilmember Daley came on board April 28th director Cooper Smith did respond
- to my email and we got together and discussed it and As of today councilmember Daley has met via phone
- with the mayor
- Director Cooper Smith and director seabor I think happened to be together and they all chatted about
- it, which was wonderful and She has an email from director Hiddle and she has a meeting scheduled for
- tomorrow with the director of public works So we're current timelines is now starting today here we
- are This will be again up for discussion if it is voted
- for introduction May 20th City Council meeting and then council has two more meetings before we go on
- recess. We have June 3rd and we have June 10th. So ideally we would love to have something finalized
- and working with you all and potentially supported to bring back to council either that June 3rd meeting
- or that June 10th meeting.
- which I understand would add a special session from you all and I would like to talk about that. So
- far the information needed that I know of is from one email from Director Seabor that we need a comprehensive
- list of streets closed to vehicles because others exist and we would like them all to be in this proposed
- new chapter of Title 15. Thank you.
- Sorry. Thanks for the presentation. Before we go to council questions and fully aware that staff has
- not been able to weigh in with a memo on this. I wanted to give staff an opportunity to comment and
- I suspect that maybe the person to ask would be director Cooper Smith who's here in the audience unless
- Mr. C were wanted to present first because I think this is an issue not of safety but of commerce.
- Whoever would like to speak those welcome director Jane Cooper Smith of economic and sustainable development.
- Thanks councilmember Rosenberger for the presentation. I don't really have a lot to add. I think that
- you know we made we staff did what we believed was a deep dive and due diligence to present information
- and evaluate this program earlier this year and that was how we came to our staff recommendation in February.
- And I would just footnote that it wasn't Andrew and I didn't decide like it was our it was the majority
- of cabinet members and departments working on this together. And we really believed that was the best
- recommendation for this space for a number of reasons. But I think that what council has expressed is
- that they desire a different outcome. And so I think they have access to the information that we provided
- at that time and we are happy to
- Provide anything else that's needed. I've been deeply appreciative of the of the outreach. I think the
- Initial version that councilmember Rosenberger shared didn't really have a lot of Matter to it. And
- so there wasn't a lot to respond to but I did find our meeting and on the 28th to be super substantive
- and helpful So I think just It's been really informative I think we should have been
- doing some design thinking together earlier on in this process. I learned through these conversations
- that council member Daley had requested a deliberation session earlier this year and I wish that we
- had said yes to that because I think that's what this project truly needed. And so you know I've I've
- said hey maybe we should do a deliberation session session but I don't think there's a huge appetite
- for that at this time. And then my main concerns are just about what we have a
- program that we're rolling out full steam ahead and we've we think it's really great but kind of just
- triaging what the council's expectations are for the remainder of the year and how we're working with
- businesses and maintenance of traffic plans with construction projects in the area. So I'm concerned
- about 20 26. I'll just leave it there. But again thanks for the
- Communication there's some media coverage had said said this is you know contentious and we're battling
- but that's we're communicating and It's been pretty good. So, thank you. Thank you. Mr. Seabor would
- you like to speak? Yeah, I just Appreciate the dialogue. I don't have a formal presentation mostly here
- just to help answer questions the the main things I maybe wanted to share
- Reflecting on when director Cooper Smith and I had a conversation with councilmember daily appreciating
- the the note that some of the feedback is Potentially desire to include in it one of the the main questions
- in my mind just to put it out there is And that a part of this it's a legal discussion to unlike what
- is most from a legal lens and what is in title 15 or not and so we just between various schedules haven't
- been able to connect and didn't
- have a sense of the urgency of the timeline until more recently on this topic. But the independent of
- the Title 15 discussion is that just throughout time, Title 15 and traffic code has never been the tool
- used to temporarily close streets. And so that's maybe the biggest question in my mind, which is a different
- question, it's related, but different.
- Like we are closing Clubhouse Drive Temporarily we construct projects and close them temporarily. We
- have some that are some roads that have been closed for seasons or for experiments or some permanently
- that we just have been successful without doing a traffic code and Just in a very early quick assessment
- an email dialogue in in state code when it talks about traffic regulations
- basically says what municipalities can What what our traffic regulations we can regulate and and there
- are things like stop signs and speed limits and one-way streets But closing a street isn't a traffic
- regular. It's not one of the options It's just thought of I think differently and so just from from
- that lens having some uncertainty with with The this specific just the legality of the ordinance that's
- proposed But happy to answer any questions
- Thanks to you both for your comments. So let me just frame this here again. This is the discussion portion
- of the meeting. There's no official action we're taking except to ask the commission staff to tee up
- a formal proposal such as a we would need to schedule a special session to hear to make a formal proposal
- to hear a formal proposal before
- It goes to City Council with the schedule that this legislation is on either that or maybe the ordinance
- doesn't doesn't We don't know what the council is going to do with the ordinance whether they might
- Decide it that quickly or postpone it, but it's on a track. That's faster than our next meeting so With
- that I just want to say open up the floor to questions on
- This topic do you constant do commissioners have any thoughts on? the ordinance that is Being proposed
- Mr. Stossburg Yes, thank you. I had one time I owned a building on Main Street in Richmond, Indiana
- Which for a period was pedestrian mall and a period cars went through but I'm very sensitive to the
- fact this is more than just a transportation question this is a question about for the residents of
- vitality of the area. I hear the point that consistency is good, it makes planning good, I hear that.
- There's also a disconnect in what was presented about, sounds like first there was a recommendation
- to close due to lack of participation and then impracticalities due to budget, but then following that,
- this is where there's some details missing, there's a proposal to make it permanent after there was
- just some data
- Suggest that it wasn't working So how did and this might this might be a question more for the council
- than not just the Transportation Commission, but how did we get from? Let's close it to let's make it
- permanent Thank you first I would like to clarify The permanent would just be a permanent seasonal closure.
- Okay. Yeah, so it's still the April through November
- So we we in February were given memo from ESD with data in it and I guess some Points gleaned from a
- lot of meetings and outreach that they did I think especially with council members and I guess I would
- say there is a lot of data to that Wasn't in it I don't I it wasn't it wasn't I'm not saying it was
- a bad memo I'm saying
- For example there was a piece that said we're losing eighty thousand dollars in parking meter revenue
- because that would be maxing out those spots that were converted to car free where we would need to
- take a better look at that because we know mostly people then park on different streets so forth and
- the side streets and everything so that wasn't really accurate. I think there is some other data that
- essentially wasn't included about how long people are starting to stay. I think it's called stay time.
- I don't director Cooper Smith would know more about it than I do where we're looking at cell phone pings
- and folks are staying longer when it's when cars aren't on it. So they're going that sort of you assume
- from that they're going to multiple spots instead of going to Nixon eating and leaving. So I think there
- are other things to be considered I guess that weren't
- the memo Also conversations with DBI and the downtown Kirkwood Association that at least I've had Thank
- you It sounds like now there are more conversations happening between the council and the staff about
- the best way forward Do you feel good about the timeline it sounds like I know on our end it feels compressed
- the way we're receiving it
- There's always an option to do something again temporary in the service of doing something better for
- the long term as opposed to trying to start something this new and definite plan immediately. Do you
- feel like this is the right way the options of this year versus next year with more conversation in
- process. It's up for debate I would say. I mean I really try to come in
- to draft ordinances and like things that I draft with I don't know a lot of curiosity still so I think
- a lot of people are involved in this and because this has been in existence for years it doesn't feel
- new to me it feels like we're moving it from the outdoor dining ordinance and just so we're kind of
- separating it from outdoor dining and just putting it in title 15.
- So to me it feels more of a fix than a big change and that doesn't exactly answer your question. Do
- I think there's enough time before we go on recess. I think there is I think that it wasn't seen as
- something that needed to be discussed until it became all in council's agenda which is OK. Everyone
- has been so busy. I mean the PD has taken up an ungodly amount of council hours and staff hours. I know
- that and that was
- why this got pushed as well. I mean initially we were looking at trying to close it to cars by little
- five but the PUD just took over. So that's just kind of a nature of where we are now. And so it could
- happen or it couldn't happen. I think another question is if it were to pass in this time span does
- it go into effect soon or does it go into effect in twenty seven.
- I'll ask a process question maybe to Mr. Seaborg's concern. It sounds like there's another conversation
- that Mr. Flaherty talks about, which is what's the right amount of code to have in Title 15? Should
- we be removing that? And this is suggesting adding some new specifics at the point we're talking about
- removing them. I know there's a distinction sometimes between policy, which is high level, and procedure
- details, and some of these
- Like to me the name of a street or the section of a sidewalk of the detail So I guess I have some concern
- about what's the right amount to add to the title 15 Yeah, that's one of the questions on my mind that
- I don't honestly have a good answer for I think as at meetings like this in the past every month it
- feels like Commissioner Flaherty at these meetings will ask what's the the latest on those discussions and
- And I think essentially for the title 15 discussion we're just looking for I'm looking forward to our
- council legal team in the city administrative legal team to work together on it and happy to be a part
- of it. And and some of those things are more detailed like how many feet from an intersection to another
- is always there is no parking. This is a bigger picture policy thing but is it.
- Where does it land on that I couldn't definitively say because we haven't had that chance to get into
- those weeds yet. Thank you. Mr. Sasberg will go to Mr. Coppock. Well I've got some questions just on
- this kind of information that's available like how much is this used date during the daytime on the
- weekends. I mean even during the weekdays if the whole roads closed off how
- How much use is there I mean people eat breakfast at uptown and Monday at 9 a.m. or I mean you know
- how many of these stores are actually our businesses are in favor of closing down the street. Is that
- that data that's available. I mean I would encourage you as responses from everybody but I know that
- there's been surveys of businesses done. I suspect that you're going to hear that restaurants tend to
- favor it. Non restaurants tend not to.
- I their their experts here in the room Yeah, I mean, I think that's an excellent question obviously
- and can bring that we have information from the outreach that we did prior to the February meeting and
- I can share that Reshare that with councilmember Rosenberger. The other tool that we have is is from
- Placer AI and it uses cell phone data to You know according to a footprint that you draw to show
- many phones are in that space for how long where do they go where do they come from and The dwell time
- is included in the memo and we can share that and I'd also be more than willing to just sit with you
- if you Or any of the other council members want to look at that tool Drama, you know, like we can do
- whatever but we could we could bring any information back to this body that would like to see it We
- could also include
- The original memo. I mean there's a lot in there. I understand that council members have questions about
- some of the way the conclusions were made but there's a lot of information there I guess and the other
- question I had is so how many parking spaces are lost not necessarily the revenue but Where do those
- you know how many spaces are there 80 or 50 or where do those people go park at? I suspect
- Commissioner of Olin would be able to answer that faster than me, but it's included in our Sorry and
- I take Councilmember Rosen barter's point that there's better or broader Assessment of that. Sorry.
- I'm just flipping through the memo to see if I can get a number on the parking spots. I
- It just looks like it's translated to dollar amounts rather than actual spots. But we can you know I
- think we could look at the full downtown footprint. We could look at number of spots. I don't know what
- else but we can look at that. I guess the last question I have Andrew for Andrew I guess. How's fire
- protection provided in that stretch. I mean I know you know you can get an ambulance or a stretcher
- in there but how do they get in front of
- You know busker chumlee or someplace like that. Yeah, I know In the past when the various blocks have
- been closed there's been some intentionality about making sure like if outdoor dining is out there There's
- at least X number of feet of free and clear width that can accommodate What fire needs? And that's there
- are the bollards are in place and there's a plan for them to be able to access it through those bollards so
- They've definitely been coordinated with they I think EMS providers certainly prefer the road to be
- open But if it is closed, it's been closed and they've had a plan in place I just wanted to chime in
- based on the question I'm taking from the 2018 parking commission report
- 100 East Kirkwood had 16 spots 200 had 16 300 East Kirkwood had 18 spots 400 East Kirkwood had 23 and
- 500 East Kirkwood has 14 now So that's 87 spots over the five blocks Not all of which have been closed
- in a given time I also would point out that the net revenue for
- The three blocks that had typically been closed one hundred four hundred five hundred in 2018 was close
- to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So if it was only eighty thousand four gone in revenue I'm
- going to be interested to know how that number was arrived at. But let's there's more questions I think
- any other first round questions. Second round question Mr. Stossberg just to reply on the parking spots
- case I think another useful lens is
- Uh, business revenue to the will and to the extent they're willing to share during these different
- experiments because I know some places have found that when they take out parking spots, they have bike
- parking or other amenities that their sales go up. So it's actually good for sales. So just because
- we're losing bark parking spots doesn't necessarily mean we're losing, uh, business revenue, but that's,
- that's what, at this point, I believe we would have data for, for that.
- We asked businesses to describe the impact on their operations, and we wouldn't ask them to share actual
- sales data, of course, since it would be in the public record. And it was mixed, I think. Restaurants
- largely benefited from it, and I think banks, the churches struggled with it. Sorry, I'm just summarizing what I
- what I recall from memory, but yeah, it's mixed is where it's at. And then interestingly, CVS reported
- no difference in sales, which I thought was, I don't know. I just thought that was an interesting item.
- Okay, further questions before we go to the public for comment. Again, this is a kind of an informal
- Conversation we we have to decide what we want to do about it, but let's open up to the public If there's
- a member of the public, there's no one in the chamber but is there a member of the public online who
- would like to speak on the question of Ordinance 2612 which is Working its way through the process which
- is we're considering considering please speak now I Have a pulver so who should be able to unmute
- Okay, please state your name. You'll have three minutes. Well, thank you, Paul Russo. I was going to
- speak about this at the council meeting, but I'll speak now. I strongly support the proposed ordinance
- and I thank the council members Rosenberger and Daley very much for introducing this. In my view, the
- ordinance reestablishes a closed closure that is not new and therefore a quick timeline is not only
- appropriate, but necessary. Summer is upon us.
- Kirkwood should be closed as soon as possible for the sake of continuity with last year. In my view,
- of all the consequences of the coronavirus pandemic, the seasonal closure of Kirkwood was probably the
- best. I think the closure is forward thinking and it represents Bloomington well. Regarding the exact
- language of the ordinance, I see
- That it would allow the city engineer to suspend the closure for up to 90 days on the basis of an emergency.
- If I've read that right. That's half the summer. That seems excessive to me. I would suggest instead
- that 15 days would be more appropriate for any emergency because two weeks would reach the next scheduled
- city council meeting at which time the city engineer could make the case for a longer suspension.
- In the unlikely event that a lengthy emergency occurred during a schedule scheduled summer recess of
- the council Then I suppose the council would need to convene an emergency meeting That's all I've got.
- Thanks for letting me input Thank you for your comments. Is there anybody else online who would like
- to comment on? the discussion over a potential ordinance 2612 No other takers online last call for public comment
- Let's come back to the commission. So again, the question before us isn't what should the city policy
- be? The question is how do we want to address it? If at all, uh, in order to, if, if the ordinance,
- uh, uh, goes on the track that council member Rosenberger said, we would have to schedule a special
- session to have input on it before, uh, it goes to council.
- We don't have to have input on it. I am glad that it's been brought before us And I'm grateful to everyone
- for being willing to address it But having said that what thoughts do commissioners have mr. Drumming?
- I Question a rhetorical question I guess has is there any compromise and could it be made a one-way
- like a one-lane one-way and have it partially closed but to answer your question I I think it's
- My thought is this far enough along with the people that get paid to make these decisions that I don't
- think I'm not dying to provide input on it if the world the group is we should provide input I'm fine,
- but I'm I'm fine not providing input on it as commission Other thoughts mr. Midas I think the major
- feedback I hear from that group is just like consistency like year-over-year
- I feel like it's almost that they don't really care which which way the decision goes but just that
- they really value that whatever it is remains the same year after year so that they can either invest
- make real true investments in infrastructure for the street or or not and make other plans for it. And
- then also I'll just mention Bloomington Transit when we used to go down Kirkwood and I believe back
- in 2021 we removed all of our routes from the street in anticipation of the street being regularly closed
- and we have no
- plans to ever really go back to the street for that reason. So that's in our head it's kind of an awful
- mistreating way doesn't really affect us too much. Last year we ran the summer shuttle because of concerns
- about like lack of parking and like lack of accessibility and the shuttle just went like extremely
- underutilized. And we saw especially from some of the different festivals on the events that on Kirkwood
- that parking limited parking was not a reason that kept people from from Kirkwood. People went there
- when there was
- things to do there. They they found parking just fine. They walk there just fine. So further thoughts
- Mr. Stossberg. I see this through some different lenses. One is as most people have pointed out this
- isn't new. We've been talking about Kirkwood when to open it and close it for years. And in some ways
- I think it's fair to consider it as something that predates the Transportation Commission as something
- that's been talked about
- before. The other lens is it's very much an interdisciplinary question. It is not simply a transportation
- question, very much also a business question, a community question. And to me, it's less clear what
- the role of the Transportation Commission should be. I don't feel comfortable just making a recommendation
- about the transportation piece because it's much more than that. It has to do with the, we're impacting
- the lives of, it sounds like if we go with this, the businesses that
- There may change over time more the type that are successful will appear and some of those that are
- less successful may move It's a big question for our community and not just one for transportation given
- that and the timeline goals Yeah I guess my question is like What role should we play here? Okay. Well
- Did you have a okay, let me weigh in here as a veteran of the Parking Commission I did not
- to this commission primarily because I was concerned about safety. Not that I'm not concerned about
- safety, simply that that's my super villain origin story. So as far as parking goes, like I had a immediate
- question about the cited $80,000 as a loss of parking revenue.
- There's just so many problems with that phrase in my head like we don't we certainly shouldn't be and
- I like to think we don't make policy based on whether or not we can make money off of parking. I pointed
- out back in 2017 that the overall system of parking the garages the lots the parking meters residential
- neighborhood programs barely breaks even when you add up all the revenue from meters and the lesser
- revenue from garages and lots That our system only started paying for itself when the meters were installed
- Okay, so for all this time we've been sort of been at this equilibrium where the the the public parking
- that the city of Bloomington offers Breaks even or roughly so maybe loses a little bit of money
- We're talking about several million dollars a year, four, five, six million dollars a year. And that's
- how much it costs to provide it. So let's not have any illusions about the revenue from meters being
- somehow, I mean, I think some revenue is used for other things, but that was what the commission was
- trying to establish was to what extent does
- Offering parking cost the city So that's an important question and there are other veterans of the Parking
- Commission on this body. They're they're not here today, but I Don't want to make policy based on Well,
- we lost money on that's not how parking even works one thing I want to get is the total amount of revenue for a
- 2025 we don't have it handy in 2024 there was almost 2.9 million dollars in parking meter revenue if
- The figure for 2025 is anywhere close to that. I think that the $80,000 question is Should not have
- been a primary reason for arguing whether to close or open Kirkwood But yes, this is a commercial issue it's also
- We have to weigh the commercial concerns With the right of people to get around so there are regularly
- people who are elderly or Disabled who express their dismay at a street closure because they have difficulty
- getting to a place on Kirkwood they were accustomed to I take their concern seriously and
- And for a long time I've asked a similar question to why is it that we can't squeeze drive lane to an
- inch of its life to allow cars to go through at five miles an hour 10 miles an hour that would satisfy
- a problem like that. If we're talking about a citywide speed limit of as low as 20 miles an hour which
- I've heard
- Is is something that is being considered at levels above us? This dovetails with that goal Would it
- cost more an infrastructure to build like I I was I asked this question when I was on City Council Can't
- we just leave one lane open? Can't we put Jersey barriers up to block one lane off and the answer was
- it was just way too much in material and an effort to do and
- I think we would have to I mean I I sort of still favor that idea but I don't know enough to really
- you know weigh in on it. I think we definitely need more information. I think this topic should be discussed.
- I'd like to see it discussed as soon as possible but I'm open to
- the pleasure of commissioners as to how quickly we'd like to take it up. I mean, we're gonna have, if
- we want an opportunity to meaningfully impact the legislation, we need to have a special session. If
- we want to take up an inquiry, we perhaps can, you know, take our time to do that. So I think that's
- sort of where I see the commission. And I know that the,
- The two other parking commissioners former parking commissioners Would have a great interest in this
- discussion, but it's up to us to decide whether we want to what effort we want to make With that is
- there further thought any feedback for me or for others? Anybody want to make a motion what do we want
- to do I Try not to make motions on the chair
- I don't want to make motions for people I could do it, but I'd rather come from somebody else Any thoughts
- I have people to my left I'm in favor of a wait and see because it's gonna come to council I Mean because
- the point is that we can offer the deliberation session They may not be able to schedule and they may
- ask what does the Transportation Commission think? That's why I thought we should perhaps act
- more expeditiously. Okay, I think in this case I'll look to you to make the motion
- Okay, yeah, I'll do it Okay, well then I'm ready to make a motion to schedule a meeting for June 1 because
- that gives us some time To to react it doesn't give staff a lot of time To to get ready We could also
- do a meeting on June 8th and either one ought to give us the opportunity to weigh in meaningfully before
- the likely final meeting June 10th and
- I have Ryan Roebling. We have a planning session on June 8th already planned. Really? Yeah. Well, that's
- convenient. Can we make it a double any any issues with that? Not from staff's point of view. Okay.
- Let me ask staff over here. Would a June 8th meeting give you enough time to prepare if we were to put
- this on our docket?
- a case I Can only speak for myself. I'd certainly legal is a key part of it I certainly want legal to
- have a chance to weigh in and yeah, June 8th is also a planned Commission meeting So I who June 8th
- is a planned Commission meeting. Oh, so this room will be used for that and I will be at that meeting
- So if you want my attendance, I will probably not be here. Will we be in McCloskey? Okay Thank you for
- that. Mr. Seabor. Miss Cooper Smith I'm available
- I'll do my best to prepare kind of some of the data points that you all talked about today and that
- councilmember Rosenberger's as discussed so Do my best great. Thank you. Mr. Seabor maybe Maybe
- a representative from engineering could attend in your stead I don't think it requires you there. Although
- I you know, I know you want to weigh in on this Yeah, I'd love to be there. But certainly if there is
- a meeting we will do all that we can to support that meeting and I imagine
- Other departments impacted Would try their best as well. Okay. So, all right. Thank you that that helps
- I Don't know what motion I need to make here I think that if we already have a meeting scheduled, we
- don't need to schedule a special meeting We can just put it on the agenda or what you yeah that you
- will need to that would be not a planning session
- You would need if it would need to fall under regular hearing so you would need a special session a
- vote to have a special session. Okay. And do you care whether we do this before or after the planning
- session? Yes, because we will have consultants coming in or well zooming in at 530. How long do you
- anticipate the planning session to be? Is it an hour or more? The plan is for an hour. I would give
- it some wiggle room.
- Maybe and I would give it a little bit of way over maybe 90 minutes just to be safe. Okay So if we were
- to propose a special session for June 8th at 7 p.m You would find that acceptable Okay, any other I'm
- gonna make a motion here I'm gonna make a motion to call a special session of the planning
- of the Transportation Commission
- June 8th at 7 p.m. Immediately to follow the planning session At 530 on which the question of ordinance
- 2612 will be the primary Item on the agenda is there a second for this motion Does nobody want a second Okay
- You couldn't you can bind your fellow commissioners they won't resent you Yes, okay, we have a motion
- in the second can we have a roll call vote Mr. Minus, yes Vaughn yes Jimmy yes
- Strasburg? Yes. Coppock? Yes. Okay, so we are going to present this as a, this is a resolution, right,
- Mr. Obling? I'm sorry, I was not paying attention. What was the question? Well, in order to weigh in
- on the ordinance, we have to have a resolution, right?
- Oh, you would like. Yeah, we can bring it forward as a resolution. Sorry. Yes. Okay. So it'll be in
- the form of resolution. It'll be the case we take up at the special session on June 8th at 7 p.m. Thank
- you all for that. Thanks. I'm trying. I really am. Okay. Is there any other comment on this issue before
- we move on to the rest of the agenda?
- Okay, thank you all. Let's go now to general public comment on items not on the docket. We did have
- a written public comment submitted by Paul Rousseau on parking on Grant Street that's in your packet.
- There's nobody else in chambers who wants to make public comment. Is there anyone online who would like
- to speak to the Transportation Commission on an item that we have not already discussed? If so, please
- raise your hand and zoom and you'll have three minutes.
- Is there anyone on zoom who would like to speak final call? All right. I think that's it. There's no
- other business. This meeting is adjourned and we will reconvene June 8th at 530 in the McCloskey room
- for a planning session followed immediately by a special session at 7 p.m. In the McCloskey room. Thank you.