WEBVTT 00:00:01.186 --> 00:00:08.791 - Father, we come to you humbly and thank you for the opportunity that you've given us this evening and 00:00:08.791 --> 00:00:16.396 - throughout this whole process. We're humbled by the fact that you're offering this opportunity to us. 00:00:16.396 --> 00:00:24.002 - Let us make the most of it. And I'll be with us and lead, guide us, and direct us as we do what it is 00:00:24.002 --> 00:00:26.462 - that we're trying to do up here. 00:00:32.066 --> 00:00:40.226 - Be with us. In Jesus' name I pray, amen. I pledge allegiance to the United States of America and to 00:00:40.226 --> 00:00:48.631 - the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:48.631 --> 00:00:56.791 - All right, I'll call the roll. Please make sure your mics are on, all community members. And you're 00:00:56.791 --> 00:01:02.014 - counting in presence. Kevin Ferris. Present. Dr. Sanders. Here. 00:01:02.370 --> 00:01:09.704 - Mr. Ellis told us he is running late because of traffic, so we will count him in when he gets here. 00:01:09.704 --> 00:01:17.039 - Scott Reynolds. Present. Don Durnall. Present. Mike Korman. Present. Thank you. All right. Approval 00:01:17.039 --> 00:01:24.666 - of the minutes from March 11th, 2026. I make a motion to accept the minutes. I'll second. Got a motion. 00:01:24.666 --> 00:01:30.974 - Don second. The minutes from March 11th. Any discussion or correction on the minutes? 00:01:35.138 --> 00:01:43.124 - There was only one spelling change, one spelling correction from the copy that was circulated ahead 00:01:43.124 --> 00:01:51.349 - of the meeting digitally. Hello, William. Hey there. Sorry I'm late to everybody. Are we ready to call 00:01:51.349 --> 00:01:59.335 - the roll? Yes. Great. I vote yes. Kevin, yes. Dr. Sanders? Yes. William? Yes. Scott? Yes. Don? Yes. 00:01:59.335 --> 00:02:04.446 - Mike? Yes. Motion passes. OK, we have a hard stop again at 650. 00:02:04.546 --> 00:02:16.182 - But is there anybody that wants to make a public comment to get us started? Just come up to the mic 00:02:16.182 --> 00:02:28.051 - and state your name, please. I'm David Willoughby. Actually, I'm a township board member. But on this 00:02:28.051 --> 00:02:33.054 - reorganization, I have a lot of questions. 00:02:33.538 --> 00:02:42.330 - that I think need answered. And I've talked to a lot of people. They asked me to, but okay. The first 00:02:42.330 --> 00:02:51.035 - one is, and some of this I've been told one way and some of it I've told the other way. So I hope we 00:02:51.035 --> 00:03:00.085 - could get it straight tonight. So what will happen to the elected trustee if the reorganization happens? 00:03:00.085 --> 00:03:03.102 - Okay. Did you wanna take that one? 00:03:03.362 --> 00:03:11.162 - the Trustee that will be elected this fall, that position will continue with the town of Ellitsville 00:03:11.162 --> 00:03:18.654 - as the Director of Public Assistance. Okay, so that will continue for the next four years. Well, 00:03:18.654 --> 00:03:26.377 - it will be, most likely be an employee position. It'd be what? An employed position, not an elected 00:03:26.377 --> 00:03:32.478 - position. Right, and will that, well then, I guess I put who will administrate 00:03:33.026 --> 00:03:42.869 - the Trustee's office, well, I guess it'll be the elected officers, but will that be, administrator be 00:03:42.869 --> 00:03:53.195 - on a salary or will it be an employee punching the time clock? The title is Director of Public Assistance, 00:03:53.195 --> 00:04:02.942 - so it's gonna be like a department head, so a salaried position. Okay, and with that, I assume then, 00:04:03.490 --> 00:04:12.708 - the administrator, director, they'll be able to pretty much be free to come and go as they need. There's 00:04:12.708 --> 00:04:21.575 - a lot of things in the township that trustee, I still call it a trustee, that needs to leave and see 00:04:21.575 --> 00:04:30.969 - about things without just sitting in the office. And what is going to happen to the three elected township 00:04:30.969 --> 00:04:32.286 - board members? 00:04:32.930 --> 00:04:43.343 - We have under the finance subcommittee, there's the township subcommittee is within that, and they have 00:04:43.343 --> 00:04:53.956 - two different recommendations for either a seven member or a nine member board for the interim, at least, 00:04:53.956 --> 00:05:01.566 - was it two years? And depending on which one is chosen, at least two of the 00:05:01.858 --> 00:05:10.282 - board members that are elected will go on to be on the town council if the seven member is chosen, if 00:05:10.282 --> 00:05:18.790 - it is the nine member, then all three of them will be on the town council until their term, until that 00:05:18.790 --> 00:05:27.049 - four year term is up. So let me get this straight. Two of the board members would be on the council 00:05:27.049 --> 00:05:30.270 - of either seven or nine? Mm-hmm. Okay. 00:05:34.914 --> 00:05:43.697 - Okay, that part seems a little lopsided to me, mainly being there's more people in the township than 00:05:43.697 --> 00:05:52.741 - there is in the town. Right, but for right now we can't, the election that we're having is for the town 00:05:52.741 --> 00:06:02.046 - council and for the trustees office and the board, and then also for the reorganization. So we can't have, 00:06:02.626 --> 00:06:09.172 - If this goes through, who do you want to be on your town council? Because we're going to have, when 00:06:09.172 --> 00:06:16.176 - this is done, if it goes through, there's gonna be five voting districts for the entire, what is currently 00:06:16.176 --> 00:06:22.787 - the township that will be the town, and then it will be, it'll be a seven, going forward, it'll be a 00:06:22.787 --> 00:06:29.660 - seven member board, and each one of those five districts will get to pick one person that lives in their 00:06:29.660 --> 00:06:32.606 - district, and then there'll be two at large. 00:06:32.962 --> 00:06:41.552 - So it will be more evenly distributed once this four-year term is up. And they will, well, after this, 00:06:41.552 --> 00:06:49.975 - when the next election comes around, these will all be elected offices? Yes. Okay. Well, and I guess 00:06:49.975 --> 00:06:58.898 - I'd ask too, you probably answered my question. I asked how many people are on the town council currently. 00:06:58.898 --> 00:07:01.150 - Five. Which is five, okay. 00:07:02.338 --> 00:07:15.278 - And I've had a question too in this. You may not like to hear it, but I've heard a lot of times, and 00:07:15.278 --> 00:07:28.475 - I don't know how many times, but I know I think a couple council members didn't show up enough to have 00:07:28.475 --> 00:07:32.190 - a quorum. Has that happened? 00:07:33.186 --> 00:07:43.695 - And, one time. That you couldn't have a meeting. For the town council? Town council. Yes, that has happened 00:07:43.695 --> 00:07:53.717 - more times than I would like to say. Okay. I have been on some boards and we've had problems like that 00:07:53.717 --> 00:08:01.598 - before. And the bottom line, which I recommend to do like that, we just deducted 00:08:02.754 --> 00:08:08.781 - It was all brought out. Well, we just deducted a certain amount for not showing up unless they had a 00:08:08.781 --> 00:08:14.927 - terrible sickness or something, but. State law prevents us from doing that because yeah, because a lot 00:08:14.927 --> 00:08:21.073 - of times maybe there's a nice basketball game on something like that guy. He just want to go, but he's 00:08:21.073 --> 00:08:27.279 - getting paid. Yeah, I I don't think that's I think a seven member board with those running for Township 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:31.038 - trustee and those running currently. I don't think we'll have. 00:08:31.458 --> 00:08:40.060 - as much of an issue, but the expectation has to be that this is a duty to the public and that unless 00:08:40.060 --> 00:08:48.832 - there's extreme circumstances and you shouldn't just miss it. Okay. And the only thing I'll say, maybe 00:08:48.832 --> 00:08:57.690 - it was just the committee stuff that I was on, but once we post a fine or deduct from salary, I'll tell 00:08:57.690 --> 00:09:01.182 - you attendance did pick up. Oh, I agree. 00:09:03.298 --> 00:09:12.378 - So, okay. Mr. Willoughby, may I ask you a question? Sure. Which would you prefer when it comes to the 00:09:12.378 --> 00:09:21.458 - organization of the new town council? Would you prefer the township board, those elected, it's pulled 00:09:21.458 --> 00:09:30.538 - from there for the reorganized town council and have seven starting right away? Or what was the other 00:09:30.538 --> 00:09:32.318 - one, nine and then, 00:09:32.642 --> 00:09:40.192 - two would only be temporary. I'll tell you, my thoughts, I'm leaning towards the seven permanently, 00:09:40.192 --> 00:09:47.969 - because I think would be a problem. How do we determine who's temporary? But this way we start getting 00:09:47.969 --> 00:09:55.519 - everybody into the cycle. But I just want to know what you think. I'm sorry, I'm really having just 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:59.294 - a little trouble hearing. Okay. I don't know why. 00:10:00.194 --> 00:10:07.759 - There's no problem. There's two proposals that we've been given from the governance committee. There's 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:15.177 - one that I don't know if they specified, but at one time I'd heard the top two vote getters from the 00:10:15.177 --> 00:10:22.596 - township board would be those that come on to the town council. The other proposal is we would have, 00:10:22.596 --> 00:10:30.014 - still have a permanent seven member board, but in the interim have nine members and those other four 00:10:30.146 --> 00:10:36.852 - would come from the township. But then other two, yes, yeah, the other two. But then those other two 00:10:36.852 --> 00:10:43.491 - would eventually go away and we'd have to figure out when and which two is temporary. So what I was 00:10:43.491 --> 00:10:50.728 - saying is I'm leaning towards the seven member board and doing at the top two vote getters for the township. 00:10:50.728 --> 00:10:57.567 - I worry from voters is gonna be confusing. We run for nine this time, or we have nine, but they're not 00:10:57.567 --> 00:10:58.430 - really nine. 00:10:59.106 --> 00:11:06.839 - It's really a seven-person board, so I don't know what your thoughts are being a township board member 00:11:06.839 --> 00:11:14.572 - and potentially one of those top two vote getters. I'd say a seven-member board, top two, top two vote 00:11:14.572 --> 00:11:22.004 - getters. Okay. And I guess that's all I have. All right. Do we answer your questions though? Yeah. 00:11:22.004 --> 00:11:27.710 - All right, I'd like to hear that. Thanks. All right, we're gonna move on to 00:11:28.258 --> 00:11:45.886 - Looking at the district voting map. Is this the big one? Doesn't have yours. 00:11:53.058 --> 00:12:01.156 - Isn't this the one? That's it. Yeah, the most recent division. Has everyone got a chance for the dome? 00:12:01.156 --> 00:12:09.175 - You don't have those? I don't. You play that off yourself. No, that was here. That's the same as this 00:12:09.175 --> 00:12:16.094 - one, right? Yes. You get the phone. It's here. I take the big one. I can read it. Okay. 00:12:20.034 --> 00:12:27.802 - And that one for the record is a 4.2 variance. Let me check. I printed that off of your email. Yeah, 00:12:27.802 --> 00:12:35.492 - the only difference in that is Bloomington at the corner was part of those that were Richland City. 00:12:35.492 --> 00:12:43.337 - So for the most part, yes. OK. You want to tell, I don't know if you have it with you or not, but the 00:12:43.337 --> 00:12:49.182 - population of each one of the districts? It's in there? Oh, is this it? OK. 00:12:49.858 --> 00:12:55.905 - Yeah. So to recap to some people who may not have been to the last meeting where we first saw these 00:12:55.905 --> 00:13:01.952 - maps, there's going to be five districts. There is a state guideline, best practice, but not a hard 00:13:01.952 --> 00:13:08.180 - number where we're trying to get no more than plus or minus 10% population equivalency across all five 00:13:08.180 --> 00:13:14.469 - districts and redraw them in such a way that does not needlessly complicate where the voting lines fall 00:13:14.469 --> 00:13:15.678 - in a way that makes 00:13:16.066 --> 00:13:24.531 - campaigning and election setup and everything else, difficult. So we have a variety of proposals ranging 00:13:24.531 --> 00:13:32.673 - from a 4.2% population variance up to a 9% population variance, each with slightly different borders 00:13:32.673 --> 00:13:40.734 - to consider. Someone more complicated because there's areas from each district in another district. 00:13:41.282 --> 00:13:48.080 - Yeah, the uneven population density meant that to get the district's population balanced, you have little 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:54.622 - carve-outs and carve-ins that don't fall where we normally think of neighborhoods starting and ending 00:13:54.622 --> 00:14:01.100 - just because you needed to have more people over here or fewer people over here in order to maintain 00:14:01.100 --> 00:14:07.770 - the desired population equivalency. So last time we were looking at this, we were all leaning, I think, 00:14:07.770 --> 00:14:09.886 - toward the, well, I'm not gonna, 00:14:10.178 --> 00:14:18.520 - say what anybody else was doing, but we were talking about the 9% as in some ways being the 00:14:18.520 --> 00:14:27.768 - most geographically well-designed, if you will. And that was also one Mr. Shelton recommended. Right. 00:14:27.768 --> 00:14:36.926 - But then it looks like the more recent map, the one that's been rendered on the computer, it's 4.2%. 00:14:38.978 --> 00:14:44.720 - is a little bit different from any of the ones that we've looked at before. And I'm just looking for 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:50.632 - whether anybody has clarification. Is that because of the impact of subtracting the bits of Bloomington 00:14:50.632 --> 00:14:56.487 - in the southeast corner and adding the bits of? What it did, the other map, when we look to especially 00:14:56.487 --> 00:15:02.171 - districts four and five that are running this year, district three would have been expanded. So the 00:15:02.171 --> 00:15:08.254 - person that's running, one of the potential people that could get elected for one of the districts in four 00:15:08.514 --> 00:15:16.974 - would now be in District 3, but then next year, we have Districts 1, 2, and 3 coming up, but then we'd 00:15:16.974 --> 00:15:25.434 - already have someone living in District 3, so we couldn't have somebody run in District 3, which would 00:15:25.434 --> 00:15:33.647 - cause, so Dave looked at that and then he redid them, so he took our feedback and as you can see on 00:15:33.647 --> 00:15:37.918 - some of the other ones in these neighborhoods here, 00:15:38.338 --> 00:15:45.632 - They're not as, so he smoothed it out and actually was able to get it a little bit more uniform. And 00:15:45.632 --> 00:15:52.927 - district one is a lot larger, but at the same time, district one, the population is spread out more. 00:15:52.927 --> 00:16:00.365 - And that is really a lot of it. District five has some of it. District three has some of the township. 00:16:00.365 --> 00:16:05.854 - So does district two. With the understanding that when the census comes in, 00:16:06.594 --> 00:16:14.525 - we'll have more growth in the township. So we'll start the same amount of districts, but then all things, 00:16:14.525 --> 00:16:22.082 - because we won't be redoing the maps mid cycle like we would now. This would get us till the census. 00:16:22.082 --> 00:16:29.713 - Yeah, 2030. So the 4.2 map gets us a slightly better rate of population equivalency. It avoids having 00:16:29.713 --> 00:16:35.998 - to stutter step the election cycle and have people get rezoned into other districts 00:16:36.194 --> 00:16:42.966 - after they've been elected. Right. Okay. And it's a lot easier for the voters to understand because 00:16:42.966 --> 00:16:50.280 - it doesn't have all the implant. The current one that's shown on the screen is the latest proposal at 4.2%. 00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:54.750 - That is the most recent requested clarification from Mr. Shelton. 00:17:04.418 --> 00:17:10.541 - what I had sent to the reorganization committee. I don't know if you heard the conversation. The big 00:17:10.541 --> 00:17:16.602 - difference was this little area in the corner here, it's actually the city of Bloomington, and that 00:17:16.602 --> 00:17:22.907 - wasn't taken care of. It didn't affect the population much because I think there's very few people that 00:17:22.907 --> 00:17:29.090 - live there, but we didn't want to approve a map that had jurisdiction. Contains people who are not in 00:17:29.090 --> 00:17:32.606 - our district. Yeah. Yeah. May I ask a question? Yes. Yes. 00:17:40.386 --> 00:18:09.758 - yes it's straight it's a 00:18:10.882 --> 00:18:18.185 - I think evenly dispersed the best you can for simplicity with the understanding that, you know, here 00:18:18.185 --> 00:18:25.560 - we are in 2026, it's going to change again in 2031 or 2032 anyway. So with that, I will make a motion 00:18:25.560 --> 00:18:33.369 - to accept this most current one. I guess we'll call it the 4.2% map. That's my motion. Do it. Dawn seconds. 00:18:33.369 --> 00:18:40.382 - At this point, I'd like to see if anybody from the public has any comments on the district maps. 00:18:45.570 --> 00:18:57.017 - Yeah, sir, coming along. Can we get him to hand him the mic and not have him have to get all the way 00:18:57.017 --> 00:19:08.917 - up? Yeah, Jim Perry. The most common structure is not districts, but at large in the country as a whole. 00:19:08.917 --> 00:19:13.790 - And we're talking about districts or wards 00:19:14.018 --> 00:19:22.076 - which is, I think, the current terminology, but a majority, I think, of governments around the country 00:19:22.076 --> 00:19:29.977 - use at-large, and so, you know, the sort of splitting numbers on 4% or 6% or 9% or some other is not 00:19:29.977 --> 00:19:37.956 - necessary, if one were to say, hey, let's elect everybody, either seven or nine people, at-large, and 00:19:37.956 --> 00:19:43.902 - that wouldn't be an issue. But, you know, that was a change that started in 00:19:44.162 --> 00:19:52.237 - American government in 1913, and now we have over 3,000 communities around the country that elect people 00:19:52.237 --> 00:20:00.005 - at large. And there are different logics, and I don't have the research in front of me, but there is 00:20:00.005 --> 00:20:07.926 - some research on it. But one of the logics is to say that we want people elected at large because they 00:20:07.926 --> 00:20:13.694 - have sort of the community as a whole as their sort of point of reference. 00:20:14.882 --> 00:20:22.411 - Well, keep in mind, even though we run in districts here, the whole township, the whole town votes on 00:20:22.411 --> 00:20:29.793 - them. So in cities, like some cities in Indiana, I think Bloomington, too, is an example. I live in 00:20:29.793 --> 00:20:37.175 - District 2. The people that vote for District 2 is the entire town. All that signifies is where the 00:20:37.175 --> 00:20:43.006 - person representing it has to live. And I know that the thought process behind 00:20:43.266 --> 00:20:50.815 - that at least from my point of view is to make sure that we don't get somebody all in this clustered 00:20:50.815 --> 00:20:58.588 - together and that represents the entire town and now township. So, but yet that, so the districts, yes, 00:20:58.588 --> 00:21:06.436 - you have to live in a certain place, but the entire town votes on them. So you're right. It does satisfy 00:21:06.436 --> 00:21:11.518 - the situation where people have to represent the whole town because 00:21:12.258 --> 00:21:21.144 - The whole town's voting for me. My point is simply that there are 3,000 communities around the country 00:21:21.144 --> 00:21:29.426 - that sort of opted in the direction beginning in 1913, which is over 100 years ago for at large 00:21:29.426 --> 00:21:38.398 - representation. So the sort of the standard in Indiana is an outlier. Yeah, I do understand. Thank you. 00:21:40.962 --> 00:21:49.810 - All right, we have a motion and a second, any more discussion? And I'll apply our words, I would say 00:21:49.810 --> 00:21:58.658 - very 19th century. Thank you, Jim. All right, hearing no further discussion, I will move to call the 00:21:58.658 --> 00:22:07.944 - vote. The motion is to adopt the 4.2% map as presented. I vote yes. Kevin? Yes. Dr. Sanders? Yes. William 00:22:07.944 --> 00:22:10.046 - Ellis? Yes. Scott? Yes. 00:22:10.434 --> 00:22:24.295 - Don? Yes. Mike? Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. All right, now let's take a look at the final reorganization 00:22:24.295 --> 00:22:33.150 - plan, the discussion of what maybe our next steps are for next week. 00:22:42.306 --> 00:22:49.791 - Are there any committee reports that I have sent everybody my thoughts on them? Did anybody have any 00:22:49.791 --> 00:22:57.203 - thoughts based on, not that I'm running things, but that I gave my opinions. Does anybody else feel 00:22:57.203 --> 00:23:04.984 - that the ones I feel that are ready to accept, do we want to discuss those and get some of them approved 00:23:04.984 --> 00:23:09.950 - tonight and make any necessary changes that are low hanging fruit? 00:23:11.106 --> 00:23:35.774 - I looked at the way you scored everything and I agreed. I don't know about everybody else. So basically, William. 00:23:36.386 --> 00:23:45.055 - which ones would you like to talk about first? Well, I'm thinking since we just did the voting map, 00:23:45.055 --> 00:23:53.811 - governance may be the easiest of those two. And get any public comments before we kind of close that 00:23:53.811 --> 00:24:02.480 - to see if there's anything we missed because again, just my opinion, I'm suggesting that we approve 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.734 - the seven council members 00:24:05.538 --> 00:24:13.864 - and with the township trustee position to be a town employee. And then we would put, you know, the hours 00:24:13.864 --> 00:24:21.873 - flexibility or put that somehow into the salary ordinance that when we do that. So the job just gets 00:24:21.873 --> 00:24:29.882 - done, but they still have that. They're not having to work a certain amount of time. It's the office 00:24:29.882 --> 00:24:34.878 - that would do that. So should we, before diving in, should we? 00:24:35.330 --> 00:24:42.484 - consider how do we want to approach each of these as a committee? Are we going to take them one by one 00:24:42.484 --> 00:24:49.846 - and then each of us gives feedback and gives our thoughts and we have an open discussion among our group? 00:24:49.846 --> 00:24:57.278 - Or do we want to identify particular issues and discuss them rather than going person by person by person? 00:24:57.278 --> 00:25:00.126 - We have several different options there. 00:25:02.690 --> 00:25:09.782 - I'm okay with either way. I'd like to do, you know, subcommittee by subcommittee. Oh, definitely, yes. 00:25:09.782 --> 00:25:16.942 - And then if anybody's got any opposition to the way that the subcommittee has presented their findings, 00:25:16.942 --> 00:25:23.827 - then bring that up per subcommittee. So in other words, we'll look at governance and anybody on the 00:25:23.827 --> 00:25:30.712 - committee who has input or wants to discuss. Any amendment. Any amendment to that or, and then open 00:25:30.712 --> 00:25:32.158 - it up to the public. 00:25:33.762 --> 00:25:41.189 - Do that for each of the subcommittees. Right, we won't be able to get through all of them today, obviously. 00:25:41.189 --> 00:25:48.273 - But we have, again, this is not just for us, but we have next Monday and next Wednesday. And Wednesday 00:25:48.273 --> 00:25:55.288 - will be, I'd say when we get the final one approved. Pulling up subcommittee reports. So the main two 00:25:55.288 --> 00:26:02.165 - issues on the governance report are going to be the composition of the board, whether it is a seven 00:26:02.165 --> 00:26:03.678 - or nine member board, 00:26:04.098 --> 00:26:11.468 - And then also the question of the conversion of the elected trustee's office to an employee on a salary 00:26:11.468 --> 00:26:18.980 - position of the town, correct? Correct. Or was that, the township report was in this finance subcommittee 00:26:18.980 --> 00:26:26.066 - report, wasn't it? Well, but the governance would depend on, I think, this one. I'm looking for the 00:26:26.066 --> 00:26:27.838 - subcommittee report now. 00:26:28.642 --> 00:26:35.591 - To make sure everyone in the public understands the governance options, they presented two possibilities, 00:26:35.591 --> 00:26:42.343 - option one and option two. Option one begins with the seven member structure on January 1st, 2027, and 00:26:42.343 --> 00:26:48.965 - keeps that structure in place. Option two uses a nine member transition board during 2027 only, then 00:26:48.965 --> 00:26:55.520 - moves to the same seven member structure on January 1st, 2028. So the question is whether or not we 00:26:55.520 --> 00:26:56.766 - want to create two 00:26:57.250 --> 00:27:05.050 - single year temporary seats to make sure that representation is as broadly spread out across the considered 00:27:05.050 --> 00:27:12.345 - area as possible in that first transition year. What would be the benefit of that? Well, I think not 00:27:12.345 --> 00:27:20.145 - a whole lot of representation to the to the township right now on the board after the election in November. 00:27:20.145 --> 00:27:27.006 - If the reorganization takes place. Matter of fact, you've got two members versus five members. 00:27:29.794 --> 00:27:38.618 - Yeah, I think that that's the balance that we need to think through, right? I mean, because the complexity 00:27:38.618 --> 00:27:46.865 - is higher with the nine. And as you pointed out earlier, there's the challenge of figuring out what 00:27:46.865 --> 00:27:55.276 - happens to those, the two extra, how is that decision made? But in terms of that broad representation 00:27:55.276 --> 00:27:59.070 - that you mentioned, having the additional two 00:27:59.682 --> 00:28:08.720 - for that temporary period does make it, at least from an optics perspective, and maybe from a practical 00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:17.497 - perspective as well, make it clear that it isn't just the existing town council members that it will 00:28:17.497 --> 00:28:27.056 - have a year with, I don't want to say free reign, but a year where they would really dominate any discussions 00:28:27.056 --> 00:28:28.446 - around policies 00:28:28.994 --> 00:28:35.980 - things that have impacted the now township. Especially when you're asking voters to vote on it, that 00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:42.412 - there appears they've got no representation. Not that the whole board wouldn't represent the 00:28:42.412 --> 00:28:49.675 - whole reorganization, but that's the way it's gonna appear before the election. Yeah, I think that would 00:28:49.675 --> 00:28:57.214 - be my, that's a good point because I think that, yeah, if we're asking the voters to approve this, you know, 00:28:58.306 --> 00:29:05.186 - The larger number makes it not look as though voters are being asked to diminish their representation 00:29:05.186 --> 00:29:12.269 - temporarily. Especially when it brings more population to the table, the reorganization does. So there's 00:29:12.269 --> 00:29:19.082 - at least three districts out of the five that are made up of not majority, awfully close to majority 00:29:19.082 --> 00:29:22.590 - of township that aren't getting represented because 00:29:23.106 --> 00:29:28.555 - There's no way for him to be represented in the current. My understanding though is that anybody in 00:29:28.555 --> 00:29:34.059 - currently anywhere in Richland Township or the town of Eltsal can run for the Township Board because 00:29:34.059 --> 00:29:39.889 - we are all Richland Township Presidents. But it's too late to declare, isn't it? It's too late to declare, 00:29:39.889 --> 00:29:45.556 - but the idea that the Richland Township Board is only the people from the township and not anybody from 00:29:45.556 --> 00:29:51.550 - the town is not technically true. But this is mostly township. This is mostly township. This is all township. 00:29:51.938 --> 00:29:59.158 - and then this is bean blossom. So you'd have five members representing this, and the majority of the 00:29:59.158 --> 00:30:06.449 - population would feel like they're not getting represented. I understand. Go ahead. It's unique about 00:30:06.449 --> 00:30:13.597 - the upcoming elections. Well, it's not unique, but it does change things a bit. Two of the existing 00:30:13.597 --> 00:30:20.030 - board members will not be running in the next election. Is that correct? That is correct. 00:30:21.858 --> 00:30:30.349 - people vying for those positions that will be entirely new board members never have served, I believe, 00:30:30.349 --> 00:30:38.839 - on this board. So I don't know if it helps with the argument of how much township representation there 00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:47.247 - will be, but since everyone will be voting for these people, everybody in the township town, it won't 00:30:47.247 --> 00:30:50.462 - be the old block of town board members 00:30:51.106 --> 00:30:59.193 - that will exist after the only, theoretically there only could be three on there that was old block 00:30:59.193 --> 00:31:07.685 - town board members. And so the makeup of the board will be new exactly where they live and how technical 00:31:07.685 --> 00:31:15.854 - you wanna be about how represented everybody is. I'll not argue all that, but it will be a different 00:31:15.854 --> 00:31:18.846 - board moving forward no matter what. 00:31:18.946 --> 00:31:25.771 - Sure, but playing devil's advocate, okay, playing devil's advocate, the folks that are running for the 00:31:25.771 --> 00:31:32.531 - office in this upcoming election are from the town. They're not from the township. I understand that, 00:31:32.531 --> 00:31:39.157 - but I just wanted to point out that an old block will not take the ball and run with it. It'll be a 00:31:39.157 --> 00:31:46.248 - new team no matter what. I have a suggestion that might alleviate the concern. If we go with a nine-person 00:31:46.248 --> 00:31:48.766 - board, one of the other questions is, 00:31:48.866 --> 00:31:55.004 - what happens to those other two. We vote the nine person board. How about two of the members that from 00:31:55.004 --> 00:32:01.439 - that nine person, they're gonna be on the plan commission. Those are gonna be, those would be the temporary 00:32:01.439 --> 00:32:07.637 - board members. In other words, hypothetically, I mean, I think we have four people running for township 00:32:07.637 --> 00:32:13.655 - right now. I thought it was three. Well, there's three that'll be elected, but four running. I mean, 00:32:13.655 --> 00:32:17.886 - we have a flute, which is kind of good in a sense. Is that right, Don? 00:32:18.306 --> 00:32:26.344 - Okay, so again, what we could do is have that temporary nine. And the top two vote getters, they want 00:32:26.344 --> 00:32:34.698 - to be on council to get to the bottom two, they would be on our plan commission and still on the council. 00:32:34.698 --> 00:32:43.051 - If we want to do the nine, but they would be the temporary ones. Okay, because it's the elected officials 00:32:43.051 --> 00:32:46.046 - that with the exception of two spots, 00:32:47.170 --> 00:32:53.117 - who appoint people to the Planning Commission, and it's almost like a parting gift. You know, I don't 00:32:53.117 --> 00:32:59.063 - think we should do that. I like the idea of having option two, and at the end, at 28, then their term 00:32:59.063 --> 00:33:05.010 - expires, and it's a seven-member award, so... Well, I guess the Planning Commission, that's the other 00:33:05.010 --> 00:33:11.073 - thing we haven't... Well, I'm kind of putting the carpet for the horse. I think we would need to expand 00:33:11.073 --> 00:33:16.670 - that also. Oh, yeah, no doubt, but first things first. So another thing, too, in consideration, 00:33:16.930 --> 00:33:23.672 - You know, historically, we've been a more conservative and Republican-led community. However, remember, 00:33:23.672 --> 00:33:30.479 - the independents and libertarian and Democrats still can have a caucus this summer and have those people 00:33:30.479 --> 00:33:36.961 - run for office, being, especially now, there's a new aura in the air. So I wouldn't be surprised if 00:33:36.961 --> 00:33:43.509 - it happened. So there's going to be a difference. So I think we have an opportunity to get it right. 00:33:43.509 --> 00:33:46.750 - And in my two cents, anyways, I think option two, 00:33:46.882 --> 00:33:53.443 - Either one's good, I'd opt into just a little bit better. Yeah, I was originally, when I first read 00:33:53.443 --> 00:34:00.134 - the Senate Committee report, I was leaning more toward option one, but as I've further considered it, 00:34:00.134 --> 00:34:06.892 - I'm leaning more toward option two for all the reasons that have been mentioned by others up here, but 00:34:06.892 --> 00:34:13.649 - also in the sense that in that first year of a reorganized entity, there's gonna be a lot of decisions 00:34:13.649 --> 00:34:15.486 - that are gonna be made that 00:34:15.586 --> 00:34:23.960 - are gonna set the tone and the framework to implement this plan. And I think that actually raises the 00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:32.252 - need to ensure that there's a geographically broad set of representation. So that it doesn't feel as 00:34:32.252 --> 00:34:40.955 - though that first year's decisions are all being set, whether in reality or just from people's perception 00:34:40.955 --> 00:34:43.582 - by the town, the existing town. 00:34:43.714 --> 00:34:51.010 - as opposed to the township. And I guess what I'm more interested in is the opposition to the idea of 00:34:51.010 --> 00:34:58.233 - the reorganization from the township. Okay, what do we get? Okay, and we can make all the arguments 00:34:58.233 --> 00:35:05.023 - about tax and planning and governance and all that stuff, but really what they're looking for 00:35:05.023 --> 00:35:09.502 - is representation. They've not had representation for decades 00:35:09.698 --> 00:35:16.727 - You can say they've had representation, but I for one don't feel like I've been represented. So I will 00:35:16.727 --> 00:35:23.960 - say that right now, the three board members that are for the trustees office, excuse me, they just happen 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:30.852 - to not live within the town limits. The four people who are running for the new board, three of them 00:35:30.852 --> 00:35:38.221 - do not live in the town limits, but one does if I'm not mistaken. That is true. And so we could potentially 00:35:38.221 --> 00:35:39.518 - have a new trustee 00:35:39.874 --> 00:35:46.749 - elected board that has two township and one town person. So... With the three that are running. 00:35:46.749 --> 00:35:54.126 - With the four. With the four that are running. And they're all running on the same party, so it's only 00:35:54.126 --> 00:36:01.502 - going to be three that go into the fall. So I guess what I was saying is, I want this to happen, okay, 00:36:01.502 --> 00:36:07.518 - and I want to eliminate all the opposition front-loaded, okay, and try to eliminate 00:36:07.842 --> 00:36:13.962 - And that's one of the sticking points. I'd like to come back for a second to what Mike objected to early 00:36:13.962 --> 00:36:20.198 - by the Planning Commission, because I'm not sure I understood it. We are potentially considering expanding 00:36:20.198 --> 00:36:26.493 - the Planning and Zoning Board to have two additional seats. Is that correct, William? That was a discussion 00:36:26.493 --> 00:36:32.671 - I wanted to have. I don't know. I need to interrupt. I don't think you can expand the Planning Commission 00:36:32.671 --> 00:36:33.662 - to nine. No, no. 00:36:39.586 --> 00:36:46.064 - we would, the plan commission would just be seven people. Correct. I don't think you'd be expanding 00:36:46.064 --> 00:36:52.672 - to nine. No, no, it would not be, it would not be expanding it to nine. We'd be expanding it from the 00:36:52.672 --> 00:36:59.474 - five to seven. And the council appointments for those years would be other two people from the township, 00:36:59.474 --> 00:37:03.166 - not the town incorporated. So they have dual roles. Yes. 00:37:06.082 --> 00:37:12.820 - And Mike, your objection to the idea of having the two temporary seats, seats eight and nine, also be 00:37:12.820 --> 00:37:19.756 - on the Planning Commission is because that's not the normal method for appointing people to the Planning 00:37:19.756 --> 00:37:26.362 - Commission? That's my understanding, yes. I think it should be a council appointment at that point, 00:37:26.362 --> 00:37:33.563 - not put into your reorganization plan. That should be a decision made by the new council. And unfortunately, 00:37:33.563 --> 00:37:34.686 - that new council 00:37:35.650 --> 00:37:43.079 - Um, we could recommend that they do that. Uh, but there's two, I believe by our ordinance or I don't 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:50.656 - know if it, I think it's by state law Darla Eric, you can correct me to two of the people I'm planning 00:37:50.656 --> 00:37:57.644 - have to be from the council or is it a town employee? One of the, I mean, they're a government 00:37:57.644 --> 00:37:59.262 - representative. Okay. 00:38:01.954 --> 00:38:08.524 - Is the crux of the question, how do we choose which two seats are temporary? Is that really what this 00:38:08.524 --> 00:38:15.093 - hinges on? That would solve that. But also, to Mike's concern, five seats are still going to be, even 00:38:15.093 --> 00:38:21.920 - if we say these two seats are for, again, just speculating aloud, the bottom two vote getters, or however 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:28.361 - we figure this out, the council will still be appointing five of those seven members without us any 00:38:28.361 --> 00:38:31.710 - recommendations just in the normal cycle of things. 00:38:32.482 --> 00:38:40.123 - Correct. Since you've mentioned my name, I'd like to say one more thing. After listening to Kevin, 00:38:40.123 --> 00:38:48.227 - you know, I was pretty sure it should be a seven member board, just my own opinion. And now I'm thinking 00:38:48.227 --> 00:38:56.099 - it actually should be a nine member board to answer the question, am I going to be represented if I'm 00:38:56.099 --> 00:39:00.190 - in the Ritsland Township? And it's one of the things 00:39:00.290 --> 00:39:08.686 - that we've put up in the front of why they might want to do this. I mean, I've said it a hundred, if 00:39:08.686 --> 00:39:17.414 - not more times. No, I'm just talking about to get us over the hump, to make sure the township is assured 00:39:17.414 --> 00:39:25.810 - that immediate representation in that first, as Scott said, that important year when things may come 00:39:25.810 --> 00:39:26.974 - up that needs 00:39:27.394 --> 00:39:35.323 - you know, broad thought and everybody's input. So I think I'm leaning towards, I think the problem you 00:39:35.323 --> 00:39:43.175 - have, which it should be solvable, is how do you figure out which two people, you might have a couple 00:39:43.175 --> 00:39:50.872 - volunteers after the first year, but which two people would drop off, so. And am I understanding it 00:39:50.872 --> 00:39:56.030 - correctly that actually we only have three, that would be obvious, 00:39:56.322 --> 00:40:04.695 - that would be elected. The other question we have is then how do we select the fourth? So I'd like to 00:40:04.695 --> 00:40:13.313 - take pause for our conversation and allow a couple of minutes for the public. I appreciate that. I don't 00:40:13.313 --> 00:40:21.522 - think we'll get governance done today. Well, I was on the governance committee, so I just wanted to 00:40:21.522 --> 00:40:25.790 - add some color to your guys discussion and say that 00:40:27.266 --> 00:40:33.690 - I know it can get complicated and confusing, seven versus nine or whatever, but that was exactly the 00:40:33.690 --> 00:40:40.050 - intention of what we put forward. I do live in the township, and that's what I see is the beauty of 00:40:40.050 --> 00:40:46.538 - this process and maybe a very big positive is right now, go to school here, my kids play sports here, 00:40:46.538 --> 00:40:48.446 - frequent downtown, et cetera. 00:40:48.802 --> 00:40:54.624 - I don't have a way to be a representative because I don't live in the township, or I don't live in the 00:40:54.624 --> 00:41:00.503 - town, I live out in the township. So that was a big part of our discussion and how could we, ultimately 00:41:00.503 --> 00:41:06.155 - they all get to a seven member board, which I think is the right size. And it would be, as you guys 00:41:06.155 --> 00:41:11.977 - spoke earlier, the five districts, two at large. I think it all gets to one place where it makes a lot 00:41:11.977 --> 00:41:17.630 - of sense. How you get there and quickly get there to offer representation didn't have easy answers. 00:41:18.370 --> 00:41:25.349 - We threw out other options or other proposals. They all led to special elections with cost money and 00:41:25.349 --> 00:41:32.535 - take time and are confusing and add even more of a cloud to it. There was no direct answer to get equal 00:41:32.535 --> 00:41:39.651 - or close to equal representation from the township and the town board without completely starting from 00:41:39.651 --> 00:41:47.390 - scratch for election or something else that we were told just legally wasn't really possible or fiscally wasn't 00:41:47.554 --> 00:41:55.350 - wasn't possible. So I wanted to add that color for anyone else as well. That was mostly what we talked 00:41:55.350 --> 00:42:03.070 - about is how could the township get representation and get it faster. Unfortunately, there's no magic 00:42:03.070 --> 00:42:10.866 - bullet or magic pill that does that quickly without running into a bunch of other confusing mechanisms 00:42:10.866 --> 00:42:15.710 - and costly deals. So that's why we presented these two options. 00:42:15.810 --> 00:42:21.623 - If there's another option out there, I don't think people would fight you on there, but we didn't see 00:42:21.623 --> 00:42:27.493 - one and I don't think there was one. So that's how we came up with the seven and the nine. I know it's 00:42:27.493 --> 00:42:33.477 - not perfect. I know it's not confusing, but that's the color and the heart behind it. You guys basically 00:42:33.477 --> 00:42:39.575 - had our conversations over again in 10 minutes. But did want that out there for the public and for comment 00:42:39.575 --> 00:42:43.678 - as I asked questions, why didn't you do this or why didn't you do that? 00:42:43.874 --> 00:42:50.891 - our main concern is how does the township have representation as quickly as possible. I wish it was 00:42:50.891 --> 00:42:57.979 - a little bit better, but I didn't write the laws or the rules. So there you go. Well, thank you. Don 00:42:57.979 --> 00:43:05.698 - one and to those from the township. First of all, I'm leaning. I understand we need the nine board temporary. 00:43:05.698 --> 00:43:12.926 - That's kind of on how to choose those. How about the three people that get elected for township board? 00:43:13.346 --> 00:43:19.988 - They choose them. They choose the other two members that would represent on the council. Before we decide 00:43:19.988 --> 00:43:26.379 - that tonight, if we're all leaning towards the temporary nine member, let's think about that over the 00:43:26.379 --> 00:43:32.770 - weekend and address it again. No, absolutely. That's why I wanted to throw this out there so we could 00:43:32.770 --> 00:43:39.286 - think about how to do that. Yeah. But that's one option. Whatever three board members are elected, they 00:43:39.286 --> 00:43:41.918 - can pick the people. All right, go ahead. 00:43:42.434 --> 00:43:49.797 - Okay, just quickly, Valerie DeWar, Township resident. I'm all for this whole reorganization thing, so 00:43:49.797 --> 00:43:57.232 - that's not the issue. But I'm kind of looking at words, and the word temporary kind of sends a warning 00:43:57.232 --> 00:44:04.668 - signal to me. If I were a Township resident that was not sure how I felt about this, and someone said, 00:44:04.668 --> 00:44:11.742 - oh, for a few years, you're going to have four people. We're gonna give you two temporary people. 00:44:12.098 --> 00:44:19.816 - because that's what I'm hearing if you're uninformed. And then you say, okay, fine, so they get us in 00:44:19.816 --> 00:44:27.760 - and then they take away two of our people? I don't know, I'm just thinking maybe you might want to think 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:35.629 - about that temporary word because it might sound like a way to convince and then grab you. Transitional 00:44:35.629 --> 00:44:41.758 - sounds really good, Dawn. Yeah, and like I said, I'm just into that whole thing. 00:44:42.914 --> 00:44:50.215 - Thank you. We're not gonna make any decisions tonight. So any further discussion on, I think if I'm 00:44:50.215 --> 00:44:58.246 - wrong, I gather we're leaning towards the nine. We just need to figure out what to do with the two typically. 00:44:58.246 --> 00:45:05.547 - I'm leaning towards the nine. I'm for the nine and I'm for the nine as well. That was option two as 00:45:05.547 --> 00:45:12.702 - presented, right? Yes. We just need to figure out what to do with the two that would be going on. 00:45:14.562 --> 00:45:20.975 - Right. The transitional. The transitional. The transitional in front of board members. Temporary is 00:45:20.975 --> 00:45:27.838 - out of the world. We're not using temporary. Right. I think that it would be great if the elected township 00:45:27.838 --> 00:45:34.251 - board from this November election, if they choose who they want to represent on the council and who 00:45:34.251 --> 00:45:40.921 - they want to represent on planning, that to me would be great to show. And the ones that they recommend 00:45:40.921 --> 00:45:43.166 - for planning, is that temporarily? 00:45:43.970 --> 00:45:51.104 - not temporary, it's the interim council members. But keep in mind, planning and zoning and most of those 00:45:51.104 --> 00:45:58.034 - decisions, they would still be on the plan commission. So they're still gonna have an active voice in 00:45:58.034 --> 00:46:05.236 - the vision. But the planning commission doesn't make a decision. They just make a recommendation. Council 00:46:05.236 --> 00:46:12.235 - makes the decision. That is on some things. I mean, but for the most part, you're right. You know, you 00:46:12.235 --> 00:46:13.118 - could end up 00:46:13.474 --> 00:46:21.925 - You liken nine people, so you gotta take that. Yeah, and that's another thing. How do you do that once 00:46:21.925 --> 00:46:30.130 - all the elections are in cycle? I mean, that's a tough one. For nine, if you did nine? Well, how do 00:46:30.130 --> 00:46:38.663 - you continue it? And it's not transitional. It becomes a nine-member board. Which, in all honesty, that 00:46:38.663 --> 00:46:40.222 - makes sense to me. 00:46:42.306 --> 00:46:49.114 - Four at large. Four at large. And they would be four years after, so 2031, they'd still be on, 2431, 00:46:49.114 --> 00:46:56.124 - they would be the first one time they would be on the ballot. Well, there's an election in 27. Correct. 00:46:56.124 --> 00:47:02.999 - Yeah, there's an election in 27. Why couldn't you do four additional in 27? I mean, the four at large 00:47:02.999 --> 00:47:09.806 - in 27? In 27. Because they wouldn't take office till 28, and you'd still have 27. It's a month and a 00:47:09.806 --> 00:47:10.750 - half. No, no. 00:47:11.138 --> 00:47:19.056 - the election in 27, they don't take office until 28, but all those decisions and the whole reason, are 00:47:19.056 --> 00:47:26.897 - you saying that ones are interim appointments, then they all run again, if they want to? If they want 00:47:26.897 --> 00:47:34.584 - to, okay, if they want to, or other people can run also. I mean, I don't have an issue with that, I 00:47:34.584 --> 00:47:41.118 - just think that- In all honesty, if you're redoing a governance, okay, a government, 00:47:41.538 --> 00:47:49.930 - encompassing not just a whole lot more area, but a whole lot more people, you're doubling the size of 00:47:49.930 --> 00:47:58.651 - your population, then it makes sense that, I think it makes sense that you do for it large. And it really 00:47:58.651 --> 00:48:07.454 - wouldn't, cost-wise, it wouldn't cost anymore because the polling places for the entire township are still 00:48:08.802 --> 00:48:16.571 - ECC and St. John's, as far as I know, I mean, so that wouldn't change. They vote there anyway. And if 00:48:16.571 --> 00:48:24.187 - we're going to make a permanent nine-member board, that would make sense. They would just be on the 00:48:24.187 --> 00:48:32.185 - municipal cycle. Or another thought is if you're going to do a permanent seven-member board, a temporary 00:48:32.185 --> 00:48:38.430 - nine, well, whatever you call it, transitional nine, and a permanent seven, okay, 00:48:38.530 --> 00:48:47.145 - than do, in the election in 27, do all seven. Well, not all seven, you couldn't, but you could do five, 00:48:47.145 --> 00:48:55.594 - five of the seven, at large, and not worry about the districts. I feel we've ranged pretty far beyond 00:48:55.594 --> 00:49:04.043 - the subcommittee. Yeah. When we are at our time limit. Yeah. We have a meeting. We'll kick it around. 00:49:04.043 --> 00:49:06.942 - Next meeting's Monday at six. Yes. 00:49:08.098 --> 00:49:14.622 - Monday at 6 p.m. here in this room. And there is no time limit on that meeting. So we are gonna get 00:49:14.622 --> 00:49:21.406 - through some stuff. I'll take the small one if you want the large one. All right, meeting is concluded.