Father, we just thank you for this beautiful day. Thank you for all the people here tonight who care so much about our community and really care about not just our community today, but well to the future. It's been a lot of hard work by a lot of people to get to tonight's meeting. But Lord, we know that the job's not done and we just pray that you will be with us as we carry on and pray that we're always doing your will. Bless this meeting tonight. In Jesus' name we pray, amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Recording in progress. Any of the board members need a printed copy of the draft? I do. Thank you. The main order of business tonight is to consider the draft plan that's going to be presented to the Richmond Township Board and the Ellsville Town Council. But before we do that, do we have some minutes we need to approve? We do have minutes. I'm going to call the roll real quick and then we'll proceed with the minutes. So Mr. Henry, present. Kevin Farris, here. Mike Corman is absent. Jerry Sanders, present. Scott Reynolds. I hear Don Durnall here and William Ellis here. I make a movement that we accept the minutes for the. April 1st. Board meeting second. I'll give that second to dawn. She was a little faster on the drop here. You guys had a big minutes. I haven't seen any corrections. Any discussion on minutes? OK, motion to approve the minutes of April 1. I vote yes. Kevin, yes. Dr. Sanders, yes. Scott, yes. Don, yes. William, yes. OK, motion passes. Thank you. OK, any public comment to get us started tonight? Yes, sir. I want to follow up on something that was brought up last week, Dr. Sanders. Yeah. My name is Paul Quick. I'm the president of Smithville Communications. And I understand we got into a little discussion last week about fiber. So I wanted to come to this group this evening and make sure that you guys knew from a fact-based perspective exactly what the fiber situation is in Ellisville Township, in Bean Blossom, and in Richland Township. OK? And because this is confidential information, upon the completion of my presentation, I will retrieve this information. I understand I probably need to leave one copy for the record, and we are prepared to do that. I'm joined this evening by Chad Hawkins, who is our leader of plant engineering. So what you have in front of you right now is really a picture of the... So actually, if you're too close, the mic is short out. Oh, it's short out. How about now? Too powerful, yeah. So what you have in front of you is really a map, and as I was saying, a map can be your friend, but it gives you a visual of Ellisville, Bean Blossom, Richland Township, and those lines that you see on there are not roads. That's fiber. And that's fiber that is provided by Smithville. So in this upper area, again, you've got Bean Blossom. Here in the blue is Ellisville. And then this area down here is Richland. And this area outlined by orange is AT&T's legacy property, legacy property. So AT&T covers that area. Down here in the left-hand corner, you'll see a different color, and that's not fiber, that's actually copper. So what we wanted to do is we wanted to get on the record, because we understand there were some questions last week about is there fiber available in this combined area? And what I will share with each of you tonight is we have fiber for any residents, any small and medium business, or any enterprise customer, that would like to do business within this footprint. Now, we're gonna be responsible about how we build that fiber. So we're gonna do it based on demand, based on return on investment, based on what's best for this combined community if that comes to pass. Okay, so that is the real picture of what fiber looks like for you. The other thing you should know is in addition to this being our footprint, AT&T provides some fiber in this area, as well as Comcast. So from a consumer's perspective, you have choice. Now, of course, we want you to choose Smithville, and we think we're the best you can find. But in the event you decide to choose someone else and not have superior service, you can choose the other guys. I'm always doing a commercial. Come on, guys. But no, we have superior service. We have superior product. It is about product leadership. but we wanted you to see what it really looks like on a map. Thank you. Looks pretty good. Yeah, actually does. Yeah. I do have a question. Yes. In those areas near Whitehall, the Stone Richland Township that's still got copper cable, are they upgradable? Is there a plan to transition them to fiber? Actually, we have started work in the Whitehall area Chad, would you like to speak to that at all? Because I know we've started in that area. You can speak to it. But we've started it not all fiber, but we've started some work there. Yeah, that's right. In order to kind of start from a place where we can maximize the return on the investment as we get that area, we've started in sort of the Whitehall proper. This is all already built and then getting turned on right now, actually. come north a little bit on Howard Road and toward Bloomington a little bit on Highway 48. So really the areas that are left are the majority of Howard Road, Mallory Road, if you're familiar with the area, and then like the west end of Vernal Pike. So those are areas that are left. They're definitely upgradable. That's just something that will come in the future. Does that answer your question? Any more questions? In the event that at any point in time you need more information, more insights, questions about the map, we're going to leave one copy here for the record. But if there's any questions, please call me directly. I think Dr. Saunders, you know how to reach out to me. Mike Farmer, you do as well. But we'd be glad to answer any questions that anyone has related to fiber and superior service. Okay, now I do have to ask you one question, one favor. Can you all pass all those documents around to Mike Farmer? And I'll pick them up. We will leave one copy for the record. Who's the record keeper? You're the record keeper. I never lose anything. I've lost so many things, I've lost track of how many things. Copy number 11. So I'd just like to ask, thanks Paul. I'd just like to ask the committee here how you would like to proceed. Would you like to have Darla provide us with areas that she would like to have some more input in or how do you want to proceed? I'd say anything that we've not already discussed that you need answers to. Why don't you ask those? Okay. So the reorganization committee has already approved the subcommittee reports with few revisions. So I have included language from the subcommittee reports into the final report and I changed very, very little. And what I sent an email out to the board earlier with a list of questions that I have about the board's intent because it, wasn't clear to me from the meeting or from the subcommittee report what the recommendation is. So we can start with number two from my email, which is it wasn't clear to me how the two township board members who fill out the seven board, how they would be chosen. And so I just put that it would be the two who received the most votes in the last election. Is that all right? That's on page eight. Is that all right with the board? That is what I would call a discussion. Page nine, discussion of who votes for the council members. Again, the way that Ellitsville elections are run currently, everybody in the whole town can vote for the town council members. the council member has to be a member of the district or the ward in which he or she is running for office, so do you still want to have that system where the whole town votes for the town council members, or do you want to have the votes, only the voters who live in that district, each district voting for the council member who's running from that district? I'd say at large. I'd say the whole town. Okay. This one, vacancies on the council, page 11. As I stated, I don't know that we need to hash this out tonight, but the language I put in the plan with regard to vacancies for town council states that they should be filled by caucus. It's not clear to me how If there's a vacancy with regard to a former Richland Township Board member, how that vacancy should be filled. And again, I don't know if we need to hash that out tonight or it may be a statutory requirement, but just I threw that out in the email to tell you I wasn't clear about that. So we can work that out later. Since Township Board is voted on by the entire township, I would say if there's a vacancy The normal caucus procedures would follow for any other, any of the districts, but the at-large positions, it would be the same as what the township board currently, the entire township, the precinct commitment of the political party of whichever one's elected. I wouldn't see any difference in that. After 2030, when everybody, after that election cycle, all the board members will be voted on by all of the voters in the town. I guess my concern was if you had a vacancy in a position that was formerly held by a township board member prior to 2030. Yeah, I would still say the whole township because the whole township currently votes on the. So by caucus? Yes, by caucus, just like yes, if there's vacancy in the township board now. Now what if, so what if If somebody moves from one district to another, you forfeit that position. You forfeit that position so I can create a vacancy. Shouldn't that seat be filled from that district? No, it depends. If the residency has to be in the district, but the normal caucus procedures are still applied to what they are now. This wouldn't change caucus procedures. I'm always in the past. It's been from that. The district. Yeah, that would be the same way. I mean, it was wards back then. Well, yeah, just a different title. Yeah. So there'd be no change. So it would be from the district. That'd have to be from the district. Right. But I'm saying that's no change to what it is now. OK. I did have a related question. In the reorganization proposal, on page 11, it says town council members are required to be residents of the district from which they are elected and shall forfeit the office if they no longer are residents of the district from which they are elected. Do we foresee any possibility that the reorganization of districts as part of reorganization would cause a currently elected member to be not in the same district anymore and would that cause them to forfeit their seat immediately? I don't think that's going to be a problem. But you have a good point. Maybe I'll fill that out with a sentence to make it clear that we're talking past the interim year, past 2027. I understand your question. That would be helpful, and that would resolve my question. Okay. And keep in mind, I mean, just kind of the housekeeping things. We don't put in information that is not germane to the reorganization plan. Do we need to include that? Because that's normal state law, as it is right now. If we move out of the district, we vacate the right. But if the district moves out from under you, he's talking about, I think if the district, if the reorganization passes and you've got that new district map, if somebody theoretically is unseated or current town council members unseated as a result of that, the only ones impacted were districts one, two, and three. And those are up next year. So they would have to run under the new districts. Okay. So they wouldn't have to forfeit their seat immediately and have that filled by caucus. Usually, I think you have to fill out the, serve out the term. I mean, that's happened in the state house and redistricting. Eric, don't think you'd finish out the term and the new rules apply with the new election. That's how. Not if you've moved out. No, no, with the districts. We're not talking about if you move, but if the districts have changed, if you've lived and you finish out your term there, you just won't be able to run. You'll have to run either in the new district when your term's up. In other words, you don't vacate the seat immediately. If we're thinking the same thing, yes. Yes. We can put that in there. I have no objection to it. I just don't want to confuse people to think that it's a function of the reorganization that would happen. Right now, the reorganization does not change any of the current. It expands the districts to include more people, but it doesn't change district lines to for a current elected person or those running for election, which would change. So because the districts are expanded and not narrowed, you don't see it. You don't foresee a problem. I wouldn't because they're still they still live in those districts. Let me think about it. I'll come up with a sentence. I don't object to putting in there. I want to make it clear. So whatever. As long as it's not contradictory to the state stuff, it's going to hold everything. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I understood what forfeit actually entailed. Is it immediate? Is it at the next election cycle? How does that work so that there's clarity upfront on that? All right, next point. Two meetings ago, the board discussed appointing an advisory board. So on page 11, I added a paragraph about an advisory board. And I just picked some language. Five member advisory board to provide citizen information, review and recommendations to the council and town administrative staff. At least three seats shall be set aside for citizens of the former township who are also not residents of the town. One year terms, meet is required by the town council. and the board shall be phased out after a period of two years and the town manager shall make the board appointments. I did, I circled it. Is that typical for a town manager to make appointments to an advisory board of the town council? No, Mr. Cook and I talked about this, and the reason we said the town manager should make the board appointments is because if the town council makes the appointments, you have a board within a board, which means that special advisory board is subject to the open door law, which means they're gonna have to post notice, their emails could be subject to the Access to Public Records Act, the board members will have to have special Eltsville, IN.gov emails to keep them separate from their personal emails, so on and so forth. But if the appointments are made by somebody other than the legislative body, those board meetings are not subject to the open door laws. You don't have to worry about quorums. Three of them can get together and speak with one another without violating the open door laws. So that was why, if you don't want the town manager to make the appointment, pick somebody else, why we landed on that option. Does that make sense? Do we want five? As opposed to 30? I mean, the only reason for this is to represent the township. Correct. I understood this was the reorganization committee's compromise. Because you couldn't do nine. Because you couldn't do a nine member council. So this was a way of getting over that. Yeah, they don't have a vote or anything like that, but I don't know why there would need to be two from the town. Does that make sense? Well, it doesn't say there need to be two from the town. It says at least three shall be reserved for members of the township who are not also members of the town. There's no reason it couldn't be four or five township members as I read it. I do like the, I mean, I can see some value in making the group smaller if the goal is to basically hit that compromise from not being able to have the nine person overall board. And now if there is only three and three wanna get together, how does that affect? It won't, the open door law won't apply so they can meet whenever, wherever, however. Whenever. And they're saying five. If there's only three, that still applies. Correct. It has to do with how they're appointed, not the number. So if Mike is going to appoint the people, I guess the question is, is this how much do we have to C4C for being on this? I mean, is it valuable? Would it be valuable to have people from the town? Or is it really more about the township? I thought that the spirit of it was to make sure the township was represented. So it's almost like a voice of the township board, if you want to informally I agree. I like that. And three is a lot better normally, but five is what you probably need. This is a new startup, and there'll be people that'll either drop out or can't attend. And you'd be more guaranteed to have three at any meeting at any time. I mean, I know how boards work. It's demanding. That first year is probably really going to be demanding. And it just gives you that wider brush or swath of people that can help with getting us to the point where. Consensus or something. That first year, getting us to the point where indeed we're all have been represented well. Everybody had to say, well then, then that raises the question, would all five be from the township? A minimum of three would. But again, I don't know why anybody from the town would have to be on it. It almost defeats it. Because if you get, it's all perception. So if you've got five that are representing the town now, two that are representing the township, now you put three from the township that even though they don't have a vote, they've got a voice and you've got township perspective from five people and town perspective from five people. It dilutes the intent. So you're saying we should have five townships. Well, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Like I said, the intent is to represent that first year and have voices in there to ensure that the- Everybody's heard. Yeah, that everybody's represented and it's not all one, it's not heavy laden with the town. And so I don't know why you'd even have one that was from the town. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If there is three, you're appointing them. It's not something that's elected, okay? You're appointing them. If it's three and somebody gets sick, bad sick, okay? Cancer or something like that. And say, I gotta- They win the lottery, that's what we say. I gotta step down, okay? Then you could have somebody already in mind, I don't know, to fill the gap. Okay, so you're thinking five from the town. Yeah, I don't see any, you know, it sounds like a lot, but it's not a lot of people, especially at first year. Okay. People, you know, other things happen and you'd really like to think you at least had three that could be active at any time that felt necessary. I have no objection to whatever the township representatives on this committee want to do. they want them all town or not? I think they should probably be all township just to preserve the intent and go with five. Yeah. Yeah, I prefer five and I'd be fine with three, four or five township members on that advisory board. So is there consensus, five members, all former township? So next change is on page 14. Darla, did that change require a motion? No, I think we should do a motion at the end to cover them all. I can just say as amended. So page 14, there's a discussion about when properties classified, reclassified to town for rural, I added a sentence or category to include new or expanded commercial or residential development because I think that development's going to be the main driver whether or not it gets classified from rural to town. I think that's a good idea. Pardon me? I think that's a good idea. I don't know what the rest of the committee thinks. What is it, the adoption? No, she added this line, new or expanded commercial or residential development could be a thing that would trigger reclassification. it's not a guarantee it will, but that would be something that could be possibly reviewed. Just one of many things that would be considered. Scott, does that seem like a plausible addition? Yeah, I actually was going to I had some thoughts about the whole rural versus town thing, not to open up that conversation again, but more to clarify what I was trying to say last week. And I could either say them now or I could or we can do it at the end. The night is young, let's do it. Go for it. So I want to thank Donald and Eric in particular for their work on the report, just because I think it helped clarify some confusion that I was working under last time we met, because and I think it was because the whole concept of the town district and the rural district were introduced in the planning and zoning report. But they're not really doing any planning and zoning work. And in fact, and the reason I said thank you for the way that you drafted it is because you introduced that concept and under the category of service provision. And I think that's the more accurate one because really at this point, the two districts are just a classification for taxes. Correct, as opposed to zoning. Right, and service levels. They don't do anything with land use. I think I was a little, again, I think I was confused a little bit because of the way they were presented in the Planning and Zoning Report and also because it does say one of the stated purposes of the rural district is to preserve rural character, which, you know, tends to suggest that we're talking about land use and zoning. So just to be, so I wanted to say this really just for the record because I don't have any further objections on this, but I had raised some objections last time and I wanted to clarify why I was able to ultimately be okay with the language. So as far as I understand it today, those two districts, rural versus town, talk about taxes and they talk about services. One point I should note is that I don't think that we actually defined in the plan the exact difference in services that we'll find between those two districts. In other words, it leaves open the possibility that the rural district will have less services, but we don't actually say anywhere exactly what that means. I thought that was in one of the subcommittee reports. I think it may have been road and streets, that just the current town boundaries would have leaf collection and brush collection. Which is OK, but I just want to make that's the only difference. I think that was addressed there. I'm not sure. Utilities, water and sewer are different in different areas of the township and the town, so. How the money's collected. So I'm not saying we need to do anything about that right now. I think the only difference was the leaf and brush collection, and that was the only difference. The only difference in services, because police and fire will be for the whole reorganized unit and plowing the whole reorganized unit. Yeah, there is a section that says residential brush and leaf programs interim year service area, interim year note, brush and leaf pickup are limited to the town urban area for the interim year and will be evaluated by the reorganized town council under the town eligible code. Rural area systems will be focused on post weather event response. Right. Well, and I appreciate you guys noting that. I'm not saying we should do this now because I think it's not necessary for the plan, but I could imagine maybe down the road some supplementary material that just says services in the rural town and then just have a little table, you know, where we make that in one place. Absolutely. Right. So in any event, just to complete my thought here, as we're looking at this tonight, I just want to make it clear that the rural district doesn't actually control Anything, nothing we are saying here controls what can be built or how the land is used. That is going to be the thing that is addressed through the UDO and the comprehensive plan process. So this plan does not answer what zoning districts are going to apply in rural areas on day one. It doesn't answer the question about any safeguards in place to protect rural areas from being rezoned. It doesn't do any of that. Those are things that would be addressed through the UDO comprehensive plan process. But I do think that the fact that this plan doesn't do those things does reinforce the need for real concerted effort between now and November to do as much of that work as possible so that people know what they're ultimately going to be approving. You don't want to say we have to pass it so we can find out what's in it? Exactly. Because right now, if we couldn't do that, the voters had to vote tomorrow, that would be a major gap. And we don't want that gap to exist. That's all I needed to say. I just wanted to make it clear as to why I no longer have any objections to this rural versus town concept. I think it is very helpful to note, though, that the way this reorganization is being proposed, there aren't any major changes to zoning taxes or services that are automatically triggered the instant reorganization happens. The process for them will still be a process. with public hearings and ordinances, it's not that on January 1, everyone wakes up and up is down. Right. Thank you. Thank you. Page 29, I simply added a sentence that reads, pursuant to Indiana Code 36-7-2-1, this plan of reorganization authorizes the reorganized town exercise I think that was sort of implied in the plan, but just to make it crystal, so. Page 29, under town planning and zoning law, a plan commission consists of seven members and a BZA consists of five. So I wanted to make that clear. Actually, it's page 30. And then on page 29, actually page 30, there was some language in the report for planning and zoning that says members of the APC and BZA shall continue to serve without compensation unless otherwise determined by ordinance of the council. I would just suggest redacting that and just let the council determine who gets paid and when and all the plan commission members do get paid with the exception of the two that are appointed by the council. So I don't think that needs to be in the report. So until otherwise, unless you're a council member, you're gonna get paid. And. Page 37, that's the next one, right? Page 37, the street department report said that the town will enter into an interlocal with Monroe County. No, right. And I didn't. Mike, is that correct? I had heard that was not going to happen and so, okay, so I'll take that out. So those are my. Suggested changes if the board approves. I think it would be appropriate to make a motion to approve the plan as presented. I have to ask before we do, what is the implication of there not being an air local agreement with the rural county about roads at point 10? There is, I mean, we will be taking over those cities. And that was part of the, that was part of the road street plan. So there had been discussed early on if the county still wanted to do that, there'd be a way that we could pay them or contract them. But the road funding will go to us and we'll use that to maintain those roads. And that was addressed in the road street. So it's kind of a... It was a spillover from the Adams and Sheridan consolidation. There was some verbiage in there about that. But that fell through anyway. Yeah, yeah, that fell through there as well. So I think if the board approves, I think it would be appropriate for someone to make a motion to approve the plan and forward it to the Richland Township Board and the Ellisville Town Council with the following changes on page 11. Add a sentence to make it clear when a town council member forfeits his seat. Also on page 11, the special advisory board will consist of five members all set aside for former township residents and On page 37, delete the paragraph with regard to an interlocal with the county and also on page 29, delete the paragraph that states that plan commission members will not be paid. Does that motion have to have all that or can we just say as amended? You can just say so moved. So moved as Darla said. So moved as Darla said. Then I make the motion that we accept the plan amended. I'll second. Any further discussion? Do we want to ask for any public comment at this point before we go back? Would anybody like to make a public comment before we take a vote? This is my mom used to say, speak now forever hold your peace. But you'll still have more opportunities. There's plenty of opportunities after this. And then I'll vote. Hearing no further discussion or public comment, I will call the vote to accept the reordered proposal as amended in this meeting. I vote yes. Kevin? Yes. Dr. Sanders? Yes. Scott? Yes. Dawn? Yes. William? Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Anybody from the public like to make a statement? Valerie Duarte, I'm talking to you as a member of the Ellisville Chamber Board. Congratulations on your actions. And now that you have decided, the board would like to know what kind of talking points you can develop that business and community members from both the township and the town can be informed by us using. And that if you would see to it that the board could have those as well, we would look at doing as much as we can in support. Thank you. Yeah, I think that that's actually an interesting, I mean, kind of raises the question and I, or at least maybe raises a point worth making, which is like, this committee is done. Right. So now the plan goes to all of the, to the township board and to the town council. And ultimately whatever anybody does as far as promoting it or otherwise that's, That's on their own. We're not gonna be taking any further action. Can we kind of review the timeline again? Within the next 30 days to six weeks or so, the town council and the township board need to meet and finalize the plan. There has to be at least two meetings by each board whereby The resolution to adopt the plan is read into the record, and the plan is discussed, and there has to be at least one public hearing. So the public will have plenty of opportunities. Yes, yes, and then it goes to the DLGF after that. And I'm assuming that the draft, once you make all the changes to it, that that'll be posted on? Yes. Okay. Yep. Before everybody can see it. and we can get that up on the website as soon as we get the changes put on there. As far as coming up with talking points, that would be the responsibility of the town council and the township. Yes, but I mean, honestly, anybody that supports it, I mean, the thing is you need to boil down the things you're excited about for it in pretty small ways to explain it to people. Cause sometimes you only have 30 seconds to talk to someone about it. So, you know, one, you know, my issues may be different than for promoting it may be different than yours. So I think it's good that we're all kind of on the same page, not tripping over each other, but at the same time, I don't see how we can with this. We just need to get it into a format that people can really understand and digest it. and not get in the weeds of people and stress that what we're talking about is what will change from what you currently have. I mean, we can talk about how tax rates go up and all that stuff, and I love doing that, but this doesn't change any of that. What is the impact of reorganization gonna be? And we have to keep that in our minds. And like Scott has said, the big question that's still gonna be out there and we still can't say definitively until after this is approved is really the planning and zoning. But we can say this is what we've done so far. I think that would be, but we, I mean, we, I guess the talking points, we all should tailor them to ourselves. We don't wanna sound like robots. Because if we're really sincere about something, people wanna They don't care how much you know, they wanna know how much you care. And if you really feel this is good for the public, I think it's best to speak from your passion point on it. From this point on, we'll be speaking as citizens, not necessarily members of the reorganization committee. That is correct. Mike, did you have some time? I hope you all stay active. I mean, this whole effort, you're the spine of it. And for me, way to think about people that represent your township and your town, your community. This is perfect. And so I hope you stay very active and will be vocal and continue to help. From experience, participation by the public at board meetings actually makes a lot of difference. When there's nobody there, It doesn't help the process at all. When there's a lot of people there, even people that are against it, it actually helps create the atmosphere when everybody feels like it was processed correctly. And so I hope you stay active and come to some of the board meetings until we see this through because we're not done yet and we need everything you've brought to the table later. It's not the end of it. And I would hope all the people this committee or email addresses are still there. But if we get requests or you get requests to talk to communities, neighborhoods, you still do that because you were still part of the formation of it. And I mean, I'll be working the polls for the primary, letting people know that it's coming out in the November ballot. I can work either ECC or St. John's. We need somebody at the other place. But I think, too, that would be another great place to hand out information, some bullet points on what it means for them. So between the time of the primary and the time where they have to vote in the general election, they can have any questions answered, any concerns addressed, and feel comfortable with voting either yes or no for this when it comes in November. But that's going to be up to us to do. and it is okay for people to say no. Well, I'd like to just thank everybody on the committee. There's a lot of people here that did a lot more legwork than I did and I just appreciate all of your efforts and thank our legal counsel for all the hours they put in, our subcommittees and members of the public that I've showed up meeting after meeting. It was a good process for our community. Definitely couldn't have done it without our attorneys. Thank you. Anybody else want to say something? You said it. All right. Are you ready for me to close the meeting? Adjourned.