WEBVTT 00:00:00.578 --> 00:00:07.338 - Would you please stand and we'll have a word of prayer and the thoughts of leaders. Father, we just 00:00:07.338 --> 00:00:14.639 - thank you for this beautiful day. I know we have rain and thunderstorms today, but every day is a beautiful 00:00:14.639 --> 00:00:21.602 - day. And we're just thankful for all the opportunities that you give us. Thank you for the opportunity 00:00:21.602 --> 00:00:28.498 - to make a difference in our community. And just pray the Lord that you'll bless this meeting tonight. 00:00:28.498 --> 00:00:30.526 - In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. 00:00:31.426 --> 00:00:41.567 - Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, 00:00:41.567 --> 00:00:51.905 - one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Roll call. Roll call. Andrew Henry, 00:00:51.905 --> 00:00:54.366 - President William Ellis, 00:00:55.042 --> 00:01:03.767 - Present. Kevin Ferris. Present. Jerry Sanders. Present. Scott Reynolds. Present. Don Durnall. Present. 00:01:03.767 --> 00:01:11.730 - All present. All right. I know everybody's had a chance to look at the minutes, so do we have 00:01:11.730 --> 00:01:20.201 - any corrections? If not, can I have a motion to approve? So moved. Seconded. All right. We got that 00:01:20.201 --> 00:01:24.606 - taken care of. Moved by William. Seconded by Kevin. 00:01:24.962 --> 00:01:37.232 - Yes. Any discussion? All right, I'll call the roll to approve a few minutes from our March 4th meeting. 00:01:37.232 --> 00:01:49.856 - I vote yes. William? Yes. Kevin? Yes. Jerry? Yes. Scott? Yes. Dawn? Yes. Mike? Abstain. OK. Motion passes. 00:01:49.856 --> 00:01:53.278 - Go ahead. So public comment. 00:01:53.794 --> 00:02:01.608 - Does anybody have any public comment? I do. If you could come up here, please. And we want to hear what 00:02:01.608 --> 00:02:09.271 - you had to say, but we need everybody to kind of keep their comments to three minutes tonight because 00:02:09.271 --> 00:02:16.784 - we have hard stuff. OK. Thank you so much. My name is Lisa McCarchick. I live in Kelly Heights. And 00:02:16.784 --> 00:02:22.494 - I was here a few weeks ago. And one of the things that was talked about was 00:02:23.234 --> 00:02:34.573 - Trying to notify the community regarding the reorganization and so forth and I don't know what if anything 00:02:34.573 --> 00:02:45.488 - has been done since then but My neighbors and so forth that I know I know them from Bloomington I find 00:02:45.488 --> 00:02:53.118 - out oh I live in Alexville, too and those acquaintances Either have not 00:02:53.666 --> 00:03:04.806 - heard anything about it or anything they did find out, they found out in the local papers, didn't understand 00:03:04.806 --> 00:03:15.537 - and particularly said, I need that in layman's terms. And so there's that, I would just say that's still 00:03:15.537 --> 00:03:22.078 - out there. I apologize, I get really nervous talking like this. 00:03:22.914 --> 00:03:32.957 - What I have continued to try to educate myself about all this, and I'm learning that running a town 00:03:32.957 --> 00:03:43.401 - is very complicated. I congratulate you on the good work you've done. So whatever I say here, I'm going 00:03:43.401 --> 00:03:48.222 - to preface by saying based on my understanding. 00:03:52.642 --> 00:04:00.633 - I've when I find the Baker Tilly graphics and charts and numbers They don't tell me what I think most 00:04:00.633 --> 00:04:08.468 - taxpayers would want to know which is how is this going to affect my tax bill and I would hope that 00:04:08.468 --> 00:04:16.538 - We could come up with a specific formula Everybody knows what their tax bill looks like they know what 00:04:16.538 --> 00:04:21.630 - their house is assessed at they know how much they're paying and 00:04:22.018 --> 00:04:32.356 - There's a lot of information on the bill itself. And then we have beacon where we can look at our property 00:04:32.356 --> 00:04:42.308 - data. Can we come up with a formula that any taxpayer could look at that and figure out how much more, 00:04:42.308 --> 00:04:51.390 - if anything, they're going to pay for this reorganization? I don't think the things I've seen 00:04:52.290 --> 00:05:01.878 - are accurate. I think there's plenty of people that have houses valued at 250, 300,000 that are not 00:05:01.878 --> 00:05:12.137 - currently paying a full 1%. In property tax. So is it the case that their taxes are going to go up because 00:05:12.137 --> 00:05:20.574 - they're not at 1% is everybody's tax in Alex will going to go up to that maximum of 1%. 00:05:22.402 --> 00:05:30.006 - If that's the case, then for me living in Kelly Heights, I'm gonna be paying probably a couple hundred 00:05:30.006 --> 00:05:37.537 - dollars more in taxes and. What was your home assessed for about, you know? That's not important. I'm 00:05:37.537 --> 00:05:44.920 - basing it on the Baker-Tilley information. Are you looking at the most recent? I don't need to know 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:50.014 - for myself. I would like to see. Are you looking at the most recent? 00:05:50.434 --> 00:05:58.370 - subcommittee reports because they have a theoretical $200,000 home or anybody above 220,000 in Alexville 00:05:58.370 --> 00:06:06.079 - would not see a tax increase. Why would that be though? Because they're at the caps. Not all of them. 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:13.713 - If you go poking around on beacon, you will see properties assessed at 250,000 or even more that are 00:06:13.713 --> 00:06:15.678 - not paying a 1% tax bill. 00:06:16.418 --> 00:06:25.961 - So anyway, to move along, it would be nice to have a formula so people don't have to see where does 00:06:25.961 --> 00:06:35.505 - my property fit in these big ranges, like 200 to 300 or whatever. And they might have a false sense 00:06:35.505 --> 00:06:44.094 - that they're not gonna pay anymore. And on top of that with the vehicle cert tax, I think 00:06:44.802 --> 00:06:55.202 - the people in Ellitsville who can least afford it, it looks like they're gonna be paying the most for 00:06:55.202 --> 00:07:05.601 - this. So my overall thought is I think if we're going to join Richland and Ellitsville, everybody has 00:07:05.601 --> 00:07:13.758 - to have a stake in it. And again, based on my understanding, that stake is not, 00:07:14.338 --> 00:07:26.149 - equitable based based on what I can gather from the documents that are here and there around the Internet 00:07:26.149 --> 00:07:37.403 - pertaining to the reorganization. I think for one thing the debt that Alex bill has incurred for our 00:07:37.403 --> 00:07:42.974 - infrastructure. If we're going to extend services 00:07:43.522 --> 00:07:53.581 - that we currently have because we've incurred debt, then people in Richland need to buy into that debt, 00:07:53.581 --> 00:08:03.252 - in my opinion. Those services wouldn't exist if the town hadn't borrowed money to provide them. And 00:08:03.252 --> 00:08:13.214 - I think we have homeowners now that are not within the town limits that are receiving Ellsville water. 00:08:13.506 --> 00:08:23.872 - And I think we have some debt associated with our water. I don't know if that's true. That's what I 00:08:23.872 --> 00:08:34.549 - gathered. Those properties in my mind ought to be annexed so that everybody already in Alexville isn't 00:08:34.549 --> 00:08:41.598 - paying for the basis by which we can provide that water. Thank you. 00:08:42.050 --> 00:08:49.598 - We need to move on. All right. Well, why don't I submit? I had a few more things. Why don't I submit 00:08:49.598 --> 00:08:57.371 - them in writing to the emails? Can I meet you after the meeting? I'm sorry. One of the reasons I wanted 00:08:57.371 --> 00:09:05.069 - to talk now was that I can't stay. I can't stay. The email will be fine. That would be wonderful. I'll 00:09:05.069 --> 00:09:11.646 - write up something. And my hope is that we can put something really clear in and brief. 00:09:11.746 --> 00:09:18.894 - to distribute to everybody. I would like to talk with you personally. And what's your name, sir? I'm 00:09:18.894 --> 00:09:26.396 - Kevin Farris. OK. I've got a business card. Oh, that would be awesome. And I will say that I don't under, 00:09:26.396 --> 00:09:33.827 - with the property tax caps, I'm kind of unclear where you're saying they're not. This is because they're 00:09:33.827 --> 00:09:41.470 - taken from the gross deduction. They're going to change that a little differently. But the debt stays with. 00:09:41.666 --> 00:09:49.995 - The township has debt, we have debt, it stays with there, and the increase in taxes in the township 00:09:49.995 --> 00:09:58.324 - will be greater than what it is for the town. An example, $300,000 home enrichment township's gonna 00:09:58.324 --> 00:10:06.653 - see about a $173 tax increase where... I understand, I'm sorry to go on so long. But in the town of 00:10:06.653 --> 00:10:07.902 - Ellicottville, 00:10:08.002 --> 00:10:15.906 - You're looking at that $200,000 home, I think was like $73 to $75. So you're not going to pay hundreds 00:10:15.906 --> 00:10:23.733 - more. That is not on the radar view at all. We're going to move on. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Public 00:10:23.733 --> 00:10:31.944 - comments, we'll open it up again at the end if we have time. Right now, we're going to have a presentation 00:10:31.944 --> 00:10:35.934 - from Shelton Specialties on proposed voter district 00:10:43.266 --> 00:10:50.174 - Good evening, my name is David Shelton, Shelton Specialties LLC. I'm also currently the Knox County 00:10:50.174 --> 00:10:57.288 - clerk and basically I'm an election nerd. So I was contacted by your fair city town to create some new 00:10:57.288 --> 00:11:04.749 - district maps for the consolidation of Richland Township. Richland Township shows a total census population 00:11:04.749 --> 00:11:11.518 - currently of 15,098. How you figure up your population deviation, I'll give you a little bit of a 00:11:11.810 --> 00:11:19.069 - math lesson here, you would divide that number by five. And that target, that creates your target population, 00:11:19.069 --> 00:11:25.865 - what you want your population of each district to be. In this case, the target population per district 00:11:25.865 --> 00:11:32.530 - would be 3,019.6. Then you just start creating maps. You've got four different maps here. And if you 00:11:32.530 --> 00:11:39.524 - look at the one that has a 28% population deviations, probably the bottom one there, that was my starting 00:11:39.524 --> 00:11:41.438 - point. I looked at the maps. 00:11:41.538 --> 00:11:48.465 - trying to find one that was kind of aesthetically pleasing, not moving a whole lot of voters out of 00:11:48.465 --> 00:11:55.808 - their precinct, trying to decrease the amount of work. But when I did the math, that population deviation 00:11:55.808 --> 00:12:03.358 - was too high. So then you kind of went down to the 9% version. A little not as clean as pretty, but actually 00:12:03.586 --> 00:12:10.436 - I like that one. You see the breakdown for the districts and I just arbitrarily assign district numbers 00:12:10.436 --> 00:12:17.155 - to those. You're free to name them in reverse order as I have on these maps right there. But this one 00:12:17.155 --> 00:12:24.005 - population is down to 9%. So how you figure out the population deviation is you first, you know, divide 00:12:24.005 --> 00:12:28.286 - your map into districts. You take the highest populated district 00:12:31.330 --> 00:12:37.407 - Kind of lean back a little bit. Push it up. You take the highest populated district. You subtract the 00:12:37.407 --> 00:12:43.782 - number from the lowest populated district. You take that remainder and divide it by your target population 00:12:43.782 --> 00:12:49.740 - early little bit algebra. If you haven't used this as high school, don't feel bad. I hadn't either. 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:55.758 - And that's how you figure out the population deviation when you're at the county or municipal level. 00:12:55.758 --> 00:13:00.286 - There's no set population deviation in state law. You have a rule of thumb. 00:13:00.514 --> 00:13:06.477 - When you do the redistricting on the higher levels, your congressional apportionment, you have to get 00:13:06.477 --> 00:13:12.324 - down to the person. With nine congressional districts in Indiana, eight of them have the exact same 00:13:12.324 --> 00:13:18.287 - population. One has one additional person. When you get to the state senate, the state rep districts, 00:13:18.287 --> 00:13:24.309 - one-tenth of 1%. So it's very precise. But luckily on the local level, we have a lot more wiggle room. 00:13:24.309 --> 00:13:26.238 - Like I said, rule of thumb, 10%. 00:13:26.434 --> 00:13:32.407 - Some counties, some communities are geographically challenged. They can't quite get down to that. If 00:13:32.407 --> 00:13:38.734 - you make a good faith effort, get it around 15% or under. We'll just call them election enthusiast groups, 00:13:38.734 --> 00:13:44.706 - your legal women voters, common cause. They will not file litigation if you made a good faith effort 00:13:44.706 --> 00:13:50.797 - to go down there. On these maps that you have in front of you, it may not be clear. You should see all 00:13:50.797 --> 00:13:52.926 - sorts of different irregular shapes 00:13:53.154 --> 00:13:59.104 - with numbers in there, those are called census blocks. Those are determined by the U.S. Census Bureau. 00:13:59.104 --> 00:14:04.995 - Those boundaries cannot be changed by us or by the state. You can't cut those and cross through them. 00:14:04.995 --> 00:14:11.003 - You have to abide by those boundaries. Some of them would be, you know, it looks like a block. It could 00:14:11.003 --> 00:14:16.779 - be a country field. It could be a long, skinny sliver along a railroad ride away. But those are the 00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:18.974 - boundaries that we have to work with. 00:14:19.682 --> 00:14:27.765 - So there's a little background on redistricting there. Again, got one down to 9%, then slight variations, 00:14:27.765 --> 00:14:35.466 - an option down to 6%, and I even got it down to 4.6%. I can keep on going and going and getting that 00:14:35.466 --> 00:14:43.321 - percentage lower, but then you start getting more irregular shapes or little what I call snaggletooths 00:14:43.321 --> 00:14:46.142 - going into other districts and such. 00:14:47.074 --> 00:14:53.543 - This, you can either vote to approve any of these or you can tell me to, I want something better. It's 00:14:53.543 --> 00:15:00.013 - totally up to you. But again, these districts, your council districts are based on population. It does 00:15:00.013 --> 00:15:06.608 - not reflect voter data whatsoever. Now, as you see on these maps, you have several squares and irregular 00:15:06.608 --> 00:15:10.942 - shapes in one color that are completely surrounded by another color. 00:15:11.106 --> 00:15:17.881 - What those are, those are non-contiguous precincts. Over the years, there have been different annexations 00:15:17.881 --> 00:15:24.273 - made where parts of Ellisville surrounds a part that's technically out in the county, out in rural, 00:15:24.273 --> 00:15:31.048 - you know, Richland County or so. So you're free, this body can establish your council districts. However, 00:15:31.048 --> 00:15:37.248 - to truly clean up these maps would require action by your county commissioners. Only your county 00:15:37.248 --> 00:15:39.038 - commissioners can establish 00:15:39.170 --> 00:15:45.691 - or reestablish precincts. I strongly and highly recommend that. I just wanted to, I was confused at 00:15:45.691 --> 00:15:52.212 - first, so I want to make sure that what I'm understanding is accurate and have you confirm it. When 00:15:52.212 --> 00:15:58.993 - I first looked at these maps, I'm like, there's no difference because I was looking at colors. But what 00:15:58.993 --> 00:16:04.862 - we're really looking at are the outline red lines that you've drawn on the maps. Correct. 00:16:05.218 --> 00:16:11.635 - proposed districts. And that makes a lot more sense. Okay. Once you approve a map, separate maps for 00:16:11.635 --> 00:16:18.369 - each district will be created and we'll work with Monroe County Election Department. We have the election 00:16:18.369 --> 00:16:24.977 - director, Kylie Farris, is here. She's highly capable. I think she'd be able to tolerate me long enough 00:16:24.977 --> 00:16:27.518 - to see this project through completion. 00:16:27.618 --> 00:16:33.574 - Any districts that you establish as this body would need to take effect basically immediately after 00:16:33.574 --> 00:16:39.530 - this November's election, just so we can move all the voters. With the designation of Ellisville as 00:16:39.530 --> 00:16:45.724 - a town, you do not have any residency requirements that you need to take into consideration. Basically, 00:16:45.724 --> 00:16:51.858 - you can register to vote in Ellisville, say next year, and then turn around and run for elected office 00:16:51.858 --> 00:16:57.278 - in that town. So we don't have any delay other than we need to do this after the election. 00:16:57.602 --> 00:17:04.964 - what uh that phrases question to clarify why we would not want to use today the same boundary as precincts 00:17:04.964 --> 00:17:11.914 - well with the consolidation you're going to be bringing a lot more people in there so new maps would 00:17:11.914 --> 00:17:19.139 - have to be created and another problem is from the maps that i've seen of your city districts they cross 00:17:19.139 --> 00:17:20.446 - those census block 00:17:20.994 --> 00:17:27.172 - Lines themselves. So there's no real way to give you an accurate population deviation because of those 00:17:27.172 --> 00:17:33.230 - cross census blocks and we were working on the Strictly the population deviation to make these okay, 00:17:33.230 --> 00:17:38.988 - correct. I think and and if we did get to the point like I started talking about Reprecincting, 00:17:38.988 --> 00:17:45.346 - you know, there's currently nine precincts and in Richland Township I'd recommend ten we do two precincts 00:17:45.346 --> 00:17:46.366 - per town council 00:17:46.658 --> 00:17:53.200 - district, and those are different numbers. We have to work with voter data for precincts. They can be 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:59.614 - between 600 and 2,000 unless a precinct is its own district in itself, then you can go up to 2,300. 00:17:59.614 --> 00:18:06.155 - But as we identified earlier, each district's going to have a little over 3,000, so therefore we need 00:18:06.155 --> 00:18:12.826 - two precincts per district. We'll divide them up the best we can. That'll allow for potential expansion 00:18:12.826 --> 00:18:14.878 - and growth of people coming in. 00:18:15.010 --> 00:18:20.325 - And then also something to keep in mind, you'll only have to live with this map for about four years, 00:18:20.325 --> 00:18:25.536 - five years, until the next census comes out. And I should still be around to help you with that and 00:18:25.536 --> 00:18:30.851 - readdress it then. And that's in consideration that there's still one precinct that's actually in the 00:18:30.851 --> 00:18:36.165 - city of Bloomington, Richland Bloomington. Well, there's in the southwest corner of this map, there's 00:18:36.165 --> 00:18:41.428 - a little bit there. Yes. So, you know, ideally, you'd probably, when we create, if the commissioners 00:18:41.428 --> 00:18:44.190 - create a new precinct, 10, it'd just be Richland 10. 00:18:48.354 --> 00:18:56.237 - I personally like the 9% population deviation the best. It doesn't have any real profound cutouts. It's 00:18:56.237 --> 00:19:04.574 - under 10%. We're moving voters, but it's not, I mean, when we get to the re-precincting level, moving voters. 00:19:04.706 --> 00:19:11.249 - We can do a lot of this in the batch process. When we start moving one census block from one precinct 00:19:11.249 --> 00:19:17.663 - to the next, what the voter registration officials have to do, they have to do what's called manual 00:19:17.663 --> 00:19:24.270 - address range assignments. It gets a little tricky. With this, a lot of batch transfers makes it a lot 00:19:24.270 --> 00:19:31.390 - easier. And like I said, personally, I just like the 9% map the best. I feel it's the cleanest option for you. 00:19:35.490 --> 00:19:44.295 - Just out of curiosity, why do you like the 9% better than the 4.6%? So on the 4.6%, one of the biggest 00:19:44.295 --> 00:19:52.928 - things that I don't like, even though I drew the map this way, if you look at the yellow precinct... 00:19:52.928 --> 00:20:01.647 - towards the center of the page. D3? Yeah, well, actually, I'm looking at D2 and the D1 boundary area. 00:20:01.647 --> 00:20:04.126 - I have a carve-out, a big... 00:20:04.258 --> 00:20:10.114 - Rectangle it kind of gets one the next yes, and there's a little skinny sliver going down there You 00:20:10.114 --> 00:20:15.970 - know the the factors you want to consider when you're doing redistricting is compact Contiguous and 00:20:15.970 --> 00:20:21.885 - also you want to reflect community I don't think there's that much community variation here, too You 00:20:21.885 --> 00:20:27.858 - know if I'm splitting an ethic neighborhood in half, please let me know and I can adjust the maps But 00:20:27.858 --> 00:20:32.894 - I'm not aware of any for Ellisville so you know between all the maps the nine the the 00:20:33.026 --> 00:20:42.199 - 6% in the 4.6, there's not a whole lot of great big changes. It's just, in my opinion, the 9% map is 00:20:42.199 --> 00:20:51.373 - the cleanest one of the bunch. I was looking at the 4.6 just because the parity is more equal. Yeah, 00:20:51.373 --> 00:21:01.182 - it is. The representation. It is, definitely. But as far as I can tell, it really is just that little block 00:21:01.346 --> 00:21:13.952 - That's the difference between the 4.6 and the 9%. And that does cut through a neighborhood, I think, 00:21:13.952 --> 00:21:26.682 - right there on Thomas, right off of Thomas on the west side. Any additional questions? Is there a way 00:21:26.682 --> 00:21:30.302 - that you can get these with, 00:21:30.594 --> 00:21:37.315 - where I can get to see the street names a little bit more. Yes, we can we can blow these up and superimpose 00:21:37.315 --> 00:21:43.600 - street data and such, but I know this is simply working with the census blocks. This is just a rough 00:21:43.600 --> 00:21:49.823 - right? Yeah, back and kind of a little bit above back of the napkin, but not quite official, right? 00:21:49.823 --> 00:21:56.108 - Yeah, it's interesting because as I'm looking at this, the difference between 9% and the 4.6% from a 00:21:56.108 --> 00:21:58.846 - geographical perspective is a lot less than 00:21:59.330 --> 00:22:08.998 - the difference between the 6% and either of those, because on the 6%, you've got, if I'm seeing it correctly, 00:22:08.998 --> 00:22:17.171 - you've got District 1 that sort of cuts up all the way up to 46 on the northeast side of it. 00:22:17.171 --> 00:22:26.136 - And kind of, and on both the 9 and the 4.6%, the D3 is really compact and captures the sort of center 00:22:26.136 --> 00:22:27.454 - of Ellisville. 00:22:29.666 --> 00:22:36.620 - Just my own observations, I'm kind of drawn to the 9% myself. Also, for a future, for a new map, we 00:22:36.620 --> 00:22:43.712 - also have one little section of corporate county limits already in New Boston County. We have a small 00:22:43.712 --> 00:22:50.735 - section to the north. It's already in the town limits. So don't see it on here. OK, I was unaware of 00:22:50.735 --> 00:22:57.689 - that part. It's a real small sliver, but I don't know if there's any residents in there or not. But 00:22:57.689 --> 00:22:59.358 - there's property there. 00:22:59.554 --> 00:23:05.788 - town limits in Bean Boston Township. Okay, so looking at these maps, can you tell me which color precinct 00:23:05.788 --> 00:23:11.845 - that would be contiguous to? Looks like it's between that... Mine's pink up here, I guess. Pink? Okay, 00:23:11.845 --> 00:23:17.961 - up there. That area right there, just to the north underneath the R, the I of Richland Township in that 00:23:17.961 --> 00:23:24.195 - area, so... And any idea how many people live in that area? Few. One. Okay, we got one person live there. 00:23:24.195 --> 00:23:28.958 - One person? Okay, that won't throw off the population deviation out there, then. 00:23:29.346 --> 00:23:35.920 - All right. At the moment. Okay. Yeah. There's future plans for that area out there. Industrial 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:42.979 - or residential? Combination. Okay. Well, the census data that we have as of now, the 2020 census data 00:23:42.979 --> 00:23:49.900 - is the only data that we can use when you do the redistricting. So that's not going to change until 00:23:49.900 --> 00:23:54.398 - the next census and then we'll address it at that point in time. 00:24:00.258 --> 00:24:08.338 - Thank you. All right, thank you. Thank you. Is this something the committee would like to vote on tonight, 00:24:08.338 --> 00:24:15.965 - or do you want to see, or are you going to ask for more detail? I don't know what to think about it. 00:24:15.965 --> 00:24:23.819 - Yeah, I think I really got to look into it. I mean, I'm really, the 9% map is what I'm leaning towards, 00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:28.350 - because I don't necessarily like D1 getting into that area. 00:24:31.682 --> 00:24:40.865 - That is pretty much a subdivision of all people. So the 9% looks good to me. I'll be glad in 2030 so 00:24:40.865 --> 00:24:50.776 - we can be able to get all these little islands out. Right. Because the developments that are being developed 00:24:50.776 --> 00:25:00.414 - right now, like Christmas, you know, army farms, that's going to drastically change these numbers. Right. 00:25:03.938 --> 00:25:12.841 - We're meeting again next week, right? Yes, we are. So you are going to have a panel? Well, that's just 00:25:12.841 --> 00:25:21.830 - it. I will be here. I won't be here. So who will be here next week? I will be here. Scott will be here? 00:25:21.830 --> 00:25:30.733 - I will not be here. And Don won't be here? So next week. We can do more than one meeting the following 00:25:30.733 --> 00:25:32.894 - week and wake up for it. 00:25:34.050 --> 00:25:47.522 - I mean we've got to have this done by the end of the month and we're pushing the envelope. I will have 00:25:47.522 --> 00:26:02.302 - a board meeting on the 24th. School board meeting. So if we have no meeting on the 18th, Kevin, you're proposing 00:26:02.754 --> 00:26:15.650 - 25th and then an additional meeting on the 23rd. Well the 23rd any time that week it doesn't have to 00:26:15.650 --> 00:26:30.078 - be Monday Tuesday Tuesdays and Thursdays are bad for me So that what about that Monday 23rd town council meeting 00:26:37.410 --> 00:26:45.972 - How about we do one on the 30th, and then do one our Wednesday of April 1st? That'd work for me. 00:26:45.972 --> 00:26:55.240 - That works. Works for me. Works for me. Works for me. I just want to clarify, what do we feel that we'll 00:26:55.240 --> 00:27:05.214 - need to, I mean, I don't mind having an extra meeting, but I just. I can't see getting a whole lot done tonight. 00:27:05.314 --> 00:27:11.625 - Okay, and then next week everybody's gone. There's a lot of work left to do. Yeah Scott my sense of 00:27:11.625 --> 00:27:18.063 - it is we have these maps that we need to review more closely We also just received finally our street 00:27:18.063 --> 00:27:24.374 - and road water sewer and stormwater subcommittee drafts Which we have to go through and discuss and 00:27:24.374 --> 00:27:30.686 - then we have to start putting together a draft document That's the size is all of them that's gonna 00:27:30.686 --> 00:27:32.958 - take time and I would rather have a 00:27:33.186 --> 00:27:38.381 - a meeting on the 30th and a meeting on the 1st, and be able to chunk those things up and say, 00:27:38.381 --> 00:27:44.240 - on the 30th, we're going to be focusing on this portion of it, and on the 1st, we're going to be focusing 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:49.878 - on this portion of it. So we have a more focused meeting, and I'm not trying to cover a little bit of 00:27:49.878 --> 00:27:55.626 - everything in discussion. Well, we still have the 25th. Yes. We still have the meeting the 25th to make 00:27:55.626 --> 00:28:01.319 - sure that everybody concurs with... Okay, the 25th. Yeah, to make sure that everybody concurs with the 00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:02.590 - subcommittee findings. 00:28:02.914 --> 00:28:11.290 - And is there anything that, you know, let's start on like on the 25th, let's set part of the agenda 00:28:11.290 --> 00:28:19.667 - that discussion of we will focus on one or two subcommittee reports only and get those hammered out 00:28:19.667 --> 00:28:27.038 - and approved or not approved. And then we'll do that for each of the meetings that way. 00:28:30.786 --> 00:28:38.249 - If people wanna, if there's something, somebody's caught with the public safety, they can show up to 00:28:38.249 --> 00:28:45.047 - that meeting instead of having to show up to every meeting and hoping we discuss the public 00:28:45.047 --> 00:28:52.806 - safety subcommittee. What do you think about three, if we try to do three subcommittees? In one meeting? 00:28:52.806 --> 00:29:00.638 - In one meeting. I don't think we can on the 25th. No, why is that? Because we have that hard stop at 650. 00:29:01.154 --> 00:29:09.785 - That's what because I originally thought three two Why don't we go ahead and set the meetings now and 00:29:09.785 --> 00:29:18.500 - then talk amongst ourselves in the next week set the agenda and set the agenda Okay, and then And then 00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:28.062 - if there's if for instance if there's a subcommittee that everything there looks good Okay, like I can't imagine 00:29:28.322 --> 00:29:34.294 - This not looking good, right? Okay, then we can get that out of the way at the 25th and then do two 00:29:34.294 --> 00:29:40.327 - more. Okay, there's not a whole lot of people involved here. You see what I'm saying? Yep. And then, 00:29:40.327 --> 00:29:46.418 - but the ones that it looks like there's gonna be some dissension or whatever, then we can hammer that 00:29:46.418 --> 00:29:52.510 - out and do that one on the 30th. Whichever ones we expect to be most difficult, we front load so that 00:29:52.510 --> 00:29:54.302 - if we can't get through them, 00:29:54.562 --> 00:30:00.049 - We have another go at them. If we save any of the hard ones for the last meeting before the due date, 00:30:00.049 --> 00:30:05.428 - and they don't get closed, then we have a major problem. And how hard is, or how fast is the first? 00:30:05.428 --> 00:30:11.184 - If we had to do another meeting after that for whatever reason. I already spoke into Baker-Tilley, because 00:30:11.184 --> 00:30:16.832 - she, Paige Sansona told us she wanted a draft by the first, and I asked her if the second would be okay, 00:30:16.832 --> 00:30:22.265 - since we have a meeting on the first, and she said that it's probably okay. So, I mean, we could ask 00:30:22.265 --> 00:30:22.910 - her tonight 00:30:23.362 --> 00:30:33.221 - If, you know, even next week would be OK. Let's ask. Yeah. Since the first failsafe. In case. OK, so 00:30:33.221 --> 00:30:43.373 - meeting on the 25th, 30th. In the first. And April 1st. OK. Do we got to do a motion on that? Probably. 00:30:43.373 --> 00:30:52.158 - Do we really need to have a meeting? I think. Darla, do we need to have a motion on that? 00:30:53.410 --> 00:31:02.505 - I make a motion that we set the three dates, the 25th, the 30th, and the 1st as reorganization committee 00:31:02.505 --> 00:31:11.167 - meetings here, 6 o'clock. Okay, the motion is to have meetings on March 25th, March 30th, and April 00:31:11.167 --> 00:31:20.523 - 1st in this room at 6 p.m. Any further discussion? Or is there a second? I'll second. I was giving somebody 00:31:20.523 --> 00:31:21.822 - else a chance. 00:31:22.082 --> 00:31:32.100 - You and I are already fighting over. Okay, so Kevin moved William seconded I vote. Yes, William. Yes, 00:31:32.100 --> 00:31:42.117 - Kevin. Yes, Jerry Scott Don Mike. Yes. Thank you motion passes Well, I know there was some discussion 00:31:42.117 --> 00:31:46.046 - about whether those of us who were here 00:31:46.946 --> 00:31:51.992 - this coming Wednesday would still have some sort of work session where we could receive public comment. 00:31:51.992 --> 00:31:56.844 - And we got clarification from Garland that we cannot. Okay. That if it is a public meeting, we have 00:31:56.844 --> 00:32:01.987 - to treat it as a meeting, and without a quorum, this group cannot meet. Thank you. That would not prevent 00:32:01.987 --> 00:32:06.985 - any of us who are in town and available from having any other kind of informational meeting privately. 00:32:06.985 --> 00:32:12.031 - So if people wanted to get it for coffee or head down to a brewery and have some burgers and talk about 00:32:12.031 --> 00:32:16.446 - reorganization. There's nothing wrong with that. So you commit that to three get together? 00:32:17.346 --> 00:32:34.828 - Party at Williams House. All right. We're going to move forward on the subcommittee report. We'll have 00:32:34.828 --> 00:32:46.878 - Kit come up first. Good evening. I'm Kit Petty, Public Works Director. 00:32:47.042 --> 00:32:54.056 - First off, I'd like to apologize that I didn't have this prepared for you at the last meeting that you 00:32:54.056 --> 00:33:01.001 - guys was trying to get them all together at. I'll just briefly go over this as fast as I can. There's 00:33:01.001 --> 00:33:07.879 - really not a whole lot to talk about really with this. On the street, I'll start with the street and 00:33:07.879 --> 00:33:14.757 - the road maintenance. I included the map in this so you guys get the generalization of where all the 00:33:14.757 --> 00:33:15.710 - roads are at. 00:33:15.842 --> 00:33:24.805 - It's kind of hard to see, but they're all in yellow. The township has roughly 81 miles in the township. 00:33:24.805 --> 00:33:33.423 - The town of Ellsville has roughly 32. We've probably got 35, but I need to get them registered with 00:33:33.423 --> 00:33:42.127 - the state so we get our revenue with that. So that's the process of getting our money for the roads. 00:33:42.127 --> 00:33:43.678 - Of the 81, what I 00:33:44.162 --> 00:33:50.540 - personally looked at and deeming as urban, which would be like curb and gutter areas, would be like 00:33:50.540 --> 00:33:56.917 - your subdivisions, not with naming all of them, but, you know, the close ones to Eltsville would be 00:33:56.917 --> 00:34:03.359 - like Woodgate, you know, Autumn Hills, Autumn Grove. I kind of deem them would be the urbanized area 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:09.800 - of the new reorganization. And of course, it goes to the east and to the south going towards Highway 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:12.734 - 48. That's more of an urban area too as well. 00:34:13.346 --> 00:34:24.545 - So just doing the math, when we were to organize, it would bring us up to about roughly 116 miles of 00:34:24.545 --> 00:34:36.519 - center lane miles for the reorganized area. So just to briefly go over the operational notes, the utilities 00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:42.174 - and street are presented as separate subcommittees 00:34:42.274 --> 00:34:51.214 - for reports, but for planning purposes, but the day-to-day operations of the town of Oldsville with 00:34:51.214 --> 00:35:00.332 - the public works is we're one unit. We're sewer, water, streets, and storm water. It helps us utilize 00:35:00.332 --> 00:35:09.451 - manpower, a lot more manpower for kind of the less cost, I guess you could say in a way, because what 00:35:09.451 --> 00:35:12.222 - we do is the salaries are paid 00:35:12.578 --> 00:35:19.437 - Mike might have to help me with this a little bit. They're paid one third. It's one third sewer, one 00:35:19.437 --> 00:35:26.433 - third water, one third MVH. Well, that gives me the opportunity to pull one guy from virtually working 00:35:26.433 --> 00:35:33.496 - on water lines to working on streets. Street guy can go work on water lines, go work on wastewater like 00:35:33.496 --> 00:35:40.287 - that. Right now, storm water is in a unit itself. Right now, we've got one employee, the town does, 00:35:40.287 --> 00:35:41.374 - in storm water. 00:35:42.754 --> 00:35:50.536 - The report covers the street department services road maintenance for the proposed reorganization of 00:35:50.536 --> 00:35:58.240 - Richland Township and the town of Ellsville. Kind of go a little forward. There's a lot of services 00:35:58.240 --> 00:36:06.561 - that the town provides right now for the residents of the town of Ellsville. One of them is the residential 00:36:06.561 --> 00:36:09.566 - brush and leaf programs in the interim 00:36:09.698 --> 00:36:18.851 - year of this brush and leaf pickup would be still probably limited to the town or the urbanized areas 00:36:18.851 --> 00:36:28.543 - for the time being until the reorganized board comes together and they set what they want for what surfaces 00:36:28.543 --> 00:36:35.902 - for what you want versus rural or urban area. The reorganization plan anticipates 00:36:36.130 --> 00:36:44.561 - Like I said, two service areas, maybe a town district, maybe a rural district as well. Even though two 00:36:44.561 --> 00:36:53.238 - service areas are planning, the goal is one community with coordinated, consistent public works services. 00:36:53.238 --> 00:37:01.914 - Also, we would still confirm and operate under existing MOU agreements that we would have with the county 00:37:01.914 --> 00:37:05.598 - or any other organization as far as streets. 00:37:05.698 --> 00:37:13.723 - snow support. The town manager and myself, I don't know if he mentioned to you at the last meeting, 00:37:13.723 --> 00:37:22.390 - but me and him met with the Monroe County Highway Director, Lisa Ridge, and the superintendent of highways, 00:37:22.390 --> 00:37:31.137 - Toby Turner. It was a very well meeting that we had together. We had entertained maybe a possible interlocal 00:37:31.137 --> 00:37:35.230 - agreement. They weren't really interested in that. 00:37:35.426 --> 00:37:41.949 - because of when the town and the township becomes reorganized, that funding will come to us. 00:37:41.949 --> 00:37:49.244 - The MVH funding, the local roads and streets, which is the gas tax, that will come to us. So if we even 00:37:49.244 --> 00:37:56.398 - wanted to entertain of the county, because the county still does, they do good work with the roads in 00:37:56.398 --> 00:37:59.134 - Britson Township. They are good roads. 00:37:59.426 --> 00:38:06.126 - we would have to do interlocal agreement with them and then reimburse them back the money. And they're 00:38:06.126 --> 00:38:12.827 - not even interested in doing that. And I was fine with it. The town manager was fine with it. So right 00:38:12.827 --> 00:38:19.397 - now I've worked at an interlocal agreement back whenever Danny Stockup was still street commissioner 00:38:19.397 --> 00:38:25.902 - at the time, because there's a lot of segments of roads that's been annexed into the town that half 00:38:25.902 --> 00:38:26.878 - of the road is 00:38:27.074 --> 00:38:34.386 - and the other end of the road is in the county. So it didn't make sense for my guys to plow that section, 00:38:34.386 --> 00:38:41.422 - lift or plow and go on. So we took all them mileage areas and added them to one road. So now the town 00:38:41.422 --> 00:38:48.596 - of Elstville, we plow all of Starnes Road from Flatwoods to Reeves, all of Reeves in the town. And that 00:38:48.596 --> 00:38:54.942 - takes care of the other segments that the county plows that we have little bit of areas of. 00:38:55.042 --> 00:39:01.252 - So when we reorganize, there will be some roads that will go outside of the township. And I'm sure I 00:39:01.252 --> 00:39:07.646 - can work, we can work with Monroe County that we would take care of that road to the end of it and work 00:39:07.906 --> 00:39:15.236 - work an MOU that away. I mean, one good example is like Lost Man's Lane. Lost Man's Lane still has road 00:39:15.236 --> 00:39:22.355 - that goes on in to Bloomington Township and stops at the Richland Township line. So it would make no 00:39:22.355 --> 00:39:29.474 - sense for us to stop at their plows, turn around and go back. So that's something we can work on too 00:39:29.474 --> 00:39:36.382 - in the future with Monroe County. Staffing and outsourcing approach. With the money that we have, 00:39:36.930 --> 00:39:45.508 - all of the money. The revenue we are looking at, anticipating to get, I should be able to put two more 00:39:45.508 --> 00:39:53.836 - guys on staff with reorganization out of the NVH. And like I explained to you earlier with us doing 00:39:53.836 --> 00:40:02.165 - the DPW, them two guys could probably give me at least maybe one more guy that would be part of the 00:40:02.165 --> 00:40:05.246 - sewer and water part with it. I have 00:40:05.474 --> 00:40:12.016 - And I've talked with the town manager of the possibility of outsourcing like some of these subdivisions. 00:40:12.016 --> 00:40:18.371 - I know that the Sheridan plan, I don't know if it was in their plan, but I think they talked about it 00:40:18.371 --> 00:40:24.664 - and I think they maybe ended up doing it. But they had some contractors came in and did snow removal 00:40:24.664 --> 00:40:30.956 - in some of the subdivisions. So that's an option that I'm kinda looking at too as well. But with the 00:40:30.956 --> 00:40:35.006 - numbers that I'm looking at, I'm confident that I could probably 00:40:35.298 --> 00:40:44.198 - have the staffing to be able to take care of it. So with the funding, the grants and the cost management 00:40:44.198 --> 00:40:52.843 - of all this, like I said earlier, the finance subcommittee summary, the street maintenance and public 00:40:52.843 --> 00:41:01.489 - works operation expenses are shown at my current budget for this year was right around $994,000. With 00:41:01.489 --> 00:41:04.286 - the budget and the organization, 00:41:04.418 --> 00:41:14.167 - add another 533,797 and 14 cents. So that would make my budget roughly 1.5 million is what it would 00:41:14.167 --> 00:41:24.307 - be. So that funding comes from NVH, like I said, gas tax, the wheel tax, sir tax, and all that actually 00:41:24.307 --> 00:41:33.374 - is being taken away from the county and coming to us. So these taxpayers will not be getting 00:41:33.570 --> 00:41:40.039 - taxed anything extra for this. The county won't be getting the money for this. It will come to the town. 00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:46.262 - And so it does not have any effect on what you guys are trying to do with your portion on that. Does 00:41:46.262 --> 00:41:52.792 - that money come... I'm sorry to interrupt you, but does that money come the first year? So if this passes 00:41:52.792 --> 00:41:58.954 - in November, does that hit January 1st? No. It'd be like June? Yeah. It'd be June. The whole amount 00:41:58.954 --> 00:42:01.726 - or half of it? Half of it. Half of it, okay. 00:42:02.306 --> 00:42:09.477 - The town, I think we've discussed this to town that may have enough coffers that we could be able to 00:42:09.477 --> 00:42:16.648 - support this until that comes in. Don't hold me to that, but I'm thinking that's a possibility. Now, 00:42:16.648 --> 00:42:23.819 - the storm water, when I get to that, that would be a totally different thing. So basically that's it 00:42:23.819 --> 00:42:30.919 - in a nutshell there. I got a little bit of our capital equipment we got at the end of it so you can 00:42:30.919 --> 00:42:32.126 - see what we got. 00:42:32.386 --> 00:42:39.436 - We'll probably need just a couple of dump trucks, you know, and the staffing. We do have some equipment 00:42:39.436 --> 00:42:46.282 - that we can do a lot of this stuff on our own still, but there will be some equipment that I'll need 00:42:46.282 --> 00:42:53.061 - to purchase out of capital, capital purchasing. So, and that would be in my budgeted lines is where 00:42:53.061 --> 00:43:00.382 - that would be that. So if you guys got any more questions with that, I'll just. I'm sorry. So that 533,000, 00:43:02.466 --> 00:43:10.683 - Yes, sir. Is that the first year or is that half of that amount the first year? No, that's what my budget 00:43:10.683 --> 00:43:18.435 - will go up to. That's not my distribution. That's not the distribution is what that is. That's what 00:43:18.435 --> 00:43:26.188 - my budget will... So that's not what we're capturing if it happens? Well, yeah, we'll capture that. 00:43:26.188 --> 00:43:31.614 - But only half of it's the first year? It'd be the 1.5 is what we get. 00:43:31.746 --> 00:43:39.117 - half of the first year. Is that correct? Yes, it'd be the same for all departments. Yes, it'd be the 00:43:39.117 --> 00:43:46.925 - same for all. Yes, exactly. It'd be the same for all departments is what it'll be. But this is not general 00:43:46.925 --> 00:43:54.442 - fund. This is totally different. This is just from NVH taxing. And I think that's partly from property 00:43:54.442 --> 00:43:59.550 - tax and the gas tax, which is the local roads and streets. Wheel tax. 00:43:59.778 --> 00:44:07.512 - and in the will tax, yes. And that's another thing. The will tax will come with that too as well, is 00:44:07.512 --> 00:44:15.705 - like what the town has as well. So. And that we will get more immediately. We will probably start getting, 00:44:15.705 --> 00:44:22.750 - we would be getting that towards beginning February next year. Yes, exactly. So stormwater, 00:44:22.978 --> 00:44:32.708 - I know Mike, I don't know if he emailed everybody. I think Mike sent something out to some of you. I'm 00:44:32.708 --> 00:44:42.343 - not sure if all I've got here. I can get that to you later. Basically what he had said is pretty well 00:44:42.343 --> 00:44:50.750 - I have in here. Stormwater is just a utility itself. The township, I believe, is roughly 00:44:51.074 --> 00:45:04.256 - There's roughly 6,500 homes, I'd say, residential. That's not including your commercial, anything like 00:45:04.256 --> 00:45:15.006 - that. And the county has their, I got ahead of myself here. So let me back up here. 00:45:16.482 --> 00:45:25.929 - This report covers the water sewer in a storm for purpose of reorganization. There's different providers 00:45:25.929 --> 00:45:34.926 - in the township. There's Eastern Richland Sewer Corporation, of course the town of Eltsville in the 00:45:34.926 --> 00:45:43.294 - town. On the water side, there's Patrick Berg, or Beanblossom Patrick Berg on the west side. 00:45:43.490 --> 00:45:51.943 - Van Buren water on the south side, City of Bloomington on the east side. And they're all, all that will 00:45:51.943 --> 00:46:00.395 - stay the same. None of that will change. And then we get to the stormwater. All that stormwater funding 00:46:00.395 --> 00:46:08.848 - should come to us. It will be up to the board on how they want that to be billed. I mean, you guys will 00:46:08.848 --> 00:46:12.830 - work all that out. My personal, where I live at, 00:46:12.930 --> 00:46:20.787 - I pay $75.77 a year for my stormwater where I live at as well. That's for the county, and that comes 00:46:20.787 --> 00:46:29.267 - to about $6.31 per month. And the town residence is set at $7 a month is what there are right now currently. 00:46:29.267 --> 00:46:37.124 - So that would be something to the board whenever they get together to look at how you want to adjust 00:46:37.124 --> 00:46:40.158 - that or what you want to do with that. 00:46:40.770 --> 00:46:47.713 - Now that's just residential. That's just residential only for the commercial. We got commercial and 00:46:47.713 --> 00:46:54.655 - that's a whole lot. That's a whole lot. There's a lot more impervious areas for that. I hate to cut 00:46:54.655 --> 00:47:01.598 - you off. Yes, I'm sorry. So but that was just a quick overview. If you guys got any more questions, 00:47:01.598 --> 00:47:09.026 - shoot me an email or I can help you out with anything you need. Do we have any other subcommittee reports? 00:47:09.026 --> 00:47:09.790 - That's it. 00:47:10.850 --> 00:47:20.912 - Anybody else from the community? You literally have three minutes. Kyle, did you want to say anything 00:47:20.912 --> 00:47:29.790 - as election supervisor? OK. Say something. Any discussion among the committee real quick? 00:47:33.378 --> 00:47:39.044 - We'll have some additional questions, but I'm looking forward to us getting very clear and aggressive 00:47:39.044 --> 00:47:44.599 - agendas set for the next three meetings. So we have an opportunity to work on the things we have to 00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:50.320 - come prepared to discuss to those meetings and do all of our fact finding ahead of time to have a shot 00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:56.097 - at getting this done in time. Expect a lot of emails. Yeah, and we're allowed to do that, right, Darla? 00:47:56.097 --> 00:48:01.708 - We can email agenda administrative stuff. Back and forth asking each other questions. Administrative 00:48:01.708 --> 00:48:02.430 - type things. 00:48:02.722 --> 00:48:14.059 - We just can't say this report, we're approving it when we get to it. All right. Motion to adjourn. 00:48:14.059 --> 00:48:19.326 - So moved. Second. It is concluded. Thank you.