- We're gonna call it over the Monday, November 10th, 2025 meeting in Ellsville Town Council. Chief, care
- for the prayer. I have to follow this one more time. We come before you to thank you for this little
- town that we serve. We thank you for our employees. We thank you for our supervisors. We ask you to
- be with us throughout this meeting. We ask the same. In Jesus' name, amen. Deputy Chief, with fire.
- I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands,
- one nation,
- under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Roll call when you're ready. Here. Here. Here.
- Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here.
- Here. Here.
- Actions to pay accounts payable voucher and payroll vouchers Motion second all those in favor say aye
- aye any opposed any abstaining Well, here's how it goes ladies and gentlemen, there are no resolutions
- there are no ordinances on first reading There is one ordinance on second reading which is ordinance
- 2025-25 Creating a separate vehicle replacement fund for the stormwater utility
- And it will be driven by The right so that's right pays come in a portion of it will go to back to say
- for right As I pointed out we're actually at this point
- what says creating a separate vehicle replacement fund, it's actually creating a non-reverting fund.
- So the money can build in there and that takes an action of council. Questions from council? You wanna
- say anything about this? Motions from council. I'll move to pass ordinance 2025-25, creating a separate
- vehicle replacement fund for the stormwater utility. Second. Motion second, roll call please.
- Yes. Dan Swafford? Yes. William Ellis? Yes. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pamela Samples? Yes. There is no old
- business. And our new business tonight, point one, is Santa on Sale Street, September, December 13th,
- 2025. Saturday, September 13th. I'll speak too. I just wanted to let everybody know Santa on Sale Street
- will be December 13th from 8 to 11. I think Santa arrives on a firetruck about 930.
- come in early and get breakfast, buffet, and there'll be crafts. The library will be set up for a visit
- with Santa and friends. Photos, toys, you can write a letter to North Pole if you need to. And we just
- want to encourage everybody to come down. It's great for the kids. Outstanding. I understand you have
- other new business you want to talk about. I do. I'm going to read a statement.
- I read the same statement at the RDC meeting prior to this meeting. There is a chance to reorganize
- as a government unit. And the reorganization would be with Richland Township in the town of Elstville.
- We'd like to explore a proposal to reorganize. And in a reorganized town, the two entities would become
- one. Reading off script.
- Richland Township and the town of Elstil are exploring a proposal to formally reorganize into a single
- government entity. This proactive step would be part of a collaborative effort to protect essential
- public services, preserve local identity, and create a more efficient and sustainable structure for
- future growth for the entire township.
- recent changes to state law senate bill one have placed increased pressure on rural townships and small
- towns to operate with more efficiently with fewer resources at the same time there's a growing discussion
- at the state level possible limiting township government altogether the proposed reorganization allows
- richland township and elso to take the lead in shaping their shared future rather than reacting to outside
- decisions this proposal
- Proposed reorganization would aim to give everyone, both in Richland Township and Elstville, a shared
- voice to shape the community. Through reorganization, local leaders hope to preserve what makes this
- area special while working smarter, planning more effectively, and building a stronger, more connected,
- reorganized town together. Okay, thank you. I wanna make one quick comment for clarification. This is
- not an annexation.
- This is a merger of the two governmental bodies. Actually, it's a reorganization reorganization, but
- I don't want people to think we're trying to annex the entire township. This is a proposed reorganization
- of both governmental bodies into one. That's true. And to be more specific, this is
- a move to explore the proposal to reorganize. This is not to say we are going to reorganize. The exploration
- and the vetting of the process is first with a culmination of then after a reorganization committee
- and the subcommittees would form a plan that would be voted on by both the township advisory board and the town
- of Ellitsville town board. At that time, that plan would move to a referendum that would be voted on
- in November, 2026 and become the new entity January 1, 2027. There's a lot in what I just said. And
- so there's a lot of questions, but at this point,
- I just came from a meeting with advisory board and they voted to proceed with the exploration.
- At this point, the process would be to explore how it could be done, what it would cost, what's the
- implications. We have a meeting at 3 o'clock with Baker Tilley here. Advisory board will be here. Hopefully
- a couple of town board members can come. Lawyers will be here and there will be a lot of vetting of
- the physical
- aspects of the reorganization and how it might better fortify the fire department and allow for future
- economic development and how the process would work and exactly where the money comes from and how it
- falls into place. Questions? No, but again, I just want to clarify one thing for everybody because I
- know some people are going to hear a portion of what you said and be worried about it.
- This will go to the township advisory board and this board if we're going to move forward with moving
- it to a referendum. If it goes to a referendum, that means everybody in the township gets to vote on
- this. It is not simply the boards doing this. It is everyone in the township. The majority would have
- to approve it. That's correct. Questions from council.
- For the general public that may have interest in Friday, it's going to be recorded so that way people
- can start kind of hearing about what's going on financially. Yes, we're going to put as much sunshine
- on this process as we can beginning with Friday's event. We haven't talked to CATS yet, but we'll record
- it ourselves if we have to and then allow CATS to distribute it later. There will be tons of public
- meetings. We plan on having
- public education that will be direct to each household as well as open houses on maybe every Friday
- in the morning for a couple hours. We will have an open door to answer any and all questions. I would
- also ask maybe we have a couple late afternoon, early evening ones. We're gonna mix it up. We're gonna
- mix it up so people are not left, people that have to work for a living are not left in the lurch. And
- so weekends,
- We plan on some open houses on Saturday where people can come in, grieve, ask questions, critique, whatever
- it takes to get the public completely involved in this. Elksville is in Richland Township, and this
- is a process where it will just become one entity. And just to be clear too, I think that they've said
- it, but I'll say it again. This is just exploring the opportunity.
- We want what's best for the town residents, but I also want what's best for Richland Township because
- they're kind of the greater, not Indianapolis, but Ellitsville jurisdiction. They come here a lot. They
- use our facilities. And I want to show that there's a way you can expand without forcibly annexing people.
- We've not done it in the past.
- forcefully annex we have no plans to in the future and If all this information comes back and the town
- council the Township board say this isn't going to be best for our residents We're still going to part
- as friends. I mean, it's it's not like the world world ends, but This is needed to See if it to get
- those those numbers and those numbers will come from the committees not from
- I mean, Baker, until you get your kind of a rough guesstimate, right? No, we'll get it. Actually, we'll
- finally have an exact estimate. The process will be a work session, and we'll use some scenarios to
- create answers to what happens if we do this, that, and the other. But I'm saying there may be some
- that we haven't considered. The subcommittees are going to say, how about we do this and that? Well,
- that's true. We're not going to be able to cover
- That's every scenario when the plan is when the plan is complete the physical plan will be absolutely
- yes But that that requires he knows it's not an idea hatched locally. This was Recommend it's
- been recommended by some state level entities as well as our Consultants mentioned that other people
- have done it. This is not a first-time
- And we're looking at the Sheridan, Town of Sheridan and the Adams Township consolidation that happened
- in 2024. It seems to be a good template for what we may or may not wanna do. But this, everything that'll
- be decided will be decided by the reorganization committee and their subcommittees. This is not a dictate
- from one side or the other. And like I said, there'll be plenty of sunshine on this and the township,
- will be well represented. I mean, it's basically, we look at it as to be an even-sided representation.
- And just for clarity, I think one of the things that drove this initial conversation is the state and
- the governor expressing a overwhelming desire to do away with township governments. So if that comes
- to pass, there are issues that are gonna come about because of that, that hopefully this staves some
- of that off.
- Yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't want to overstate that, but that is a true statement. And one of the things
- that really launched our interest about going through this process is the township currently with the
- town shares a fire department. And it's well run. And we have good equipment and good people.
- with the SB1 and some of the revenue constraints in the future, we're looking at ways to fortify and
- maybe even enhance our fire protection. Questions from council or comments? So what's going on this
- Friday? I've asked Bank of Tilly to start the process of going through the physical part of
- the prop of when we would consolidate. And I ask them, I give them several scenarios about some of the
- needs that we might have, whether it be equipment or labor force, firefighters, police, et cetera. And
- I ask them to take that and look at the
- dwindling revenues that the township has as well as the town and how best to fit this proposal with
- a fiscal plan. And what time is that? Three o'clock Friday afternoon. And this is a public meeting?
- It's supposed to be a work session. The township
- Board is going to be there on how that's been arranged, but that's on their side, but I believe I can
- talk to our lawyer about how many of the town board members can be there. Yeah, I mean, I think we need
- to have it a public meeting because I don't want two or three council members to show up. We got to
- send one home. This is something that is going to affect all of us. It's a big decision.
- I want all of us to know what's going on at all times. Yeah, we can arrange that in the future, but
- that won't happen. Well, why won't it? It's a notice public. Yeah, I don't know. Can we? Yeah, we can
- put it out. Okay, then what do you know? Yeah, I mean, I have a joint work session. I didn't think we
- had enough time. Well, if we don't have enough time, then I suggest move it back because this is something
- that I'm going to be very adamant on. I'd like to attend all these meetings.
- and I want all the information I can on it. I do not wanna rely on someone telling me. So. I'll see
- what we can do. So if you, well first off, I think we need to have a vote expressing our ability to
- either move forward with investing in the process or not. So is there a council member that wants to
- put forward a motion? I'll make a motion to enter into
- agreement to look at the facts for reorganization with the township of Richland and be able to start
- the process for assigning committees. Can we amend that to the meetings being all public? They all,
- by statute, they're all public. Well, we're just talking about one for Friday.
- that we don't know if we can get or not. But that's not part of the process for this. It is part of
- the process, William. No. Yes, it is. We have to know all this information, and we're having a meeting
- on it Friday, so let's make it where all meetings are public or... That's fine. Hang on. Let's make
- my cut to the chase. Is there a second on William's motion?
- Okay, there's a motion a second on that. There is now an amendment on the floor. Dan, you want to reword
- that? That all the meetings will be held publicly, so more than two board members can attend. Anything
- that has to do with this should be public. Otherwise, I don't know how else we could have more than
- two board members. Okay, well, hang on, back up, make it as a motion, not as an argument. Yeah, no,
- I'm just trying to figure out. Go ahead.
- Do you want a second? I recognize him, let him talk. Yeah, I just. My only thing here, Dan, I'll be
- honest with you, is that some of this will be administrative between Baker-Tilley and that we don't
- need to come together on. Right. It'll be presented to us at a later point. So I don't say you can say
- every meeting is going to be. And that's why I was trying to talk it through. Yeah, OK, so think about
- it for a second. What if you added this onto an agenda? Make an agenda item. Update. Hang on, Mike has
- an idea. Is there a talk? No, go ahead.
- Okay, so if you would vote to restart the process, there'll be a reorganization committee chosen, and
- it'll be chosen by both boards. It'll be seven member board, and then they'll have subcommittees. There'll
- be times when they're working ad hoc, odd times, sometimes they'll meet
- quickly because their other lives allow for it. So I don't, when you said all meetings, I would like
- you to. Well, I just want to make sure, and this is something that would probably need Darla's input
- on, that if these committee meets, subcommittees, everything that is public so that any board member
- can sit in the audience or be part of, so that's what my goal is.
- And I appreciate the goal that as I said not unlike what we do around here on a day-to-day basis Sometimes
- the ability to meet happens when everybody can meet or then all of a sudden they can't meet and then
- so it'll the logistics of some of the smaller subcommittees When you say all meetings you put you put
- a blanket over well, and I I appreciate all that and
- But this is something that we have never done before. This is very big. And personally, I've lived here
- my entire life. I want to be a part of it. And I'm sure there's other people that would too, so. Well,
- maybe here's a good way to solve this problem. Maybe we say they all have to be recorded. Even the,
- I mean. Well, I mean, I don't see the problem of just having a meeting.
- Here's the problem we have, man. We can't tell another government entity what they have to do. No, but
- we can make a schedule just like we do our board meeting. Well, I think you're right. But we are here.
- We're not arguing that point. So I'm sorry to phrase it this way. Here, we're just saying, yes, you
- can move forward with beginning the process, which would include fixing meetings. So this is kind of
- like step one of 400. Right. So I think until we get to where we're forming, if we get that far,
- these exploratory committees to start going into point by point, then we could set meetings that have
- to be public. But this vote is only for can Mike move forward in combination with leadership from the
- township to investigate whether this is feasible or not. And I appreciate that. I really do. But you
- guys are kind of bypassing my point here. You did state earlier that the entire board would be here
- from the township.
- No different than us. We may all wanna be here. And by all, we can't be here. But we're not arguing
- Friday's meeting. We have time to notice that. We just can't do the, in my opinion, we can't do every
- meeting is going to be public, because every meeting won't include us. It may include the township board.
- But I don't see the problem with it being. Because I don't know legally we can tell the township board
- that it's a public meeting. We can't with the township. Can I chime in based on the shared plan we're going?
- All the committees and subcommittees, they had a schedule when they meet. Two weeks before each meeting,
- postcards were sent out to every resident in the township saying the meeting on, as an example, public
- safety is this date. So they were public. They were all public meetings, very well advertised, not just
- a check box where you put it in the newspaper. And I think in talking to, you know, by hearing all the
- time, Mike, about we're gonna follow the Sheridan plan for the most part,
- We'll be doing the same thing. So it's not like we're gonna have one meeting. You know, they're gonna
- have one meeting, but a lot of those subcommittees, I don't know if, I mean, I have no problem with,
- they're all gonna be open to the public, but I see what you mean. If you have more than two of us there.
- So I just think we take those on a case by case basis and we can advertise that.
- I'll double down on trying to do what you're, to try to ensure your intent is taken care of. Yeah,
- I mean, I wanna guarantee, I don't wanna hear, well, we didn't have enough time, and so this meeting
- wasn't open to the public, or only two board members can show up. I mean, this has gotta be, and William
- stated that they did it,
- They send it out every two weeks. That's a public meeting. That means all of us can attend. But I don't
- think I don't understand what the problem is. I don't think that included all the subcommittee meetings.
- This actually sounds like an issue for Darla. And I said I stated so if you want to come back with that
- motion again or if you want to. But what about Friday's meeting Friday? Well, Friday's meeting we were
- discussed. He's going to notice it so we can all be there. Friday's meeting is taken care of.
- I did not know the advisory board would be there, but I did invite them to at least send representatives
- and they indicated they're all coming. That is their decision. This was a meeting I was going to have
- if nobody showed up because I need the physical information just to decide if we want to go ahead.
- And to be clear, that Friday meeting is not part of the legal process of what we're voting on today.
- So even if this weren't, I mean, we wouldn't have it if this weren't being entertained, but that's not
- one of the things we legally have to do, but we've taken care of that for the public. This is just kind
- of the first, we're finding out the information for the first time on some of the numbers too.
- This is a great meeting for people to look into, but they have to understand these will not be the numbers
- that'll end up being approved. These are just rough drafts because that's all gonna be driven by the
- township and town residents that are in these subcommittees and then brought back to the respective
- councils to vote on. And they might look a little different. So I just wanna caution, if we see numbers Friday,
- We don't wanna say this is what's going to happen, because we can't. The committees are going to decide
- that, and they're not even formed yet. So who's going Friday? All of us can go Friday, because he's
- gonna notice it as a council meeting, as a work session, sorry. Dan, I'm sorry, do you still have an
- amendment motion on the table, and if so, what is it again, to make it a little clearer?
- My motion would be, if I'm gonna put it on there, that I want all meetings pertaining to this be public
- so all five council members can attend if wanted. Okay, so is that your motion now? That's my motion.
- Is there a second on that motion? Second. Okay, so again, we're gonna vote on the amendment, no. We
- have to vote on the primary first, then we'll vote on the amendment, okay? I think you do them both
- together. No, you have to do them separately, because it's an amendment. I think you do the amendment first.
- Can we do the amendment first? I think so, because that may determine. I'm fine if. On how people vote.
- Okay, that's fine. If we wanna go that way as long as we're all in agreement. So the amendment will
- go first for roll call vote, and that is that all public, all these meetings involving this will be
- public, correct? Hang on a second, sorry. So you're just thinking this in case any of these meetings
- that happen, all five of us could show up and there not be a legal issue. Exactly. Okay. Okay, then
- we need to, instead of public meetings,
- Advertised meetings that was a friction. I think we need to have because if the public meetings that
- doesn't mean all five of us can show up You see that's why I needed to our list, right? I think it if
- it is a public meeting you can Because like we could all go to a Edgewood band concert be there, but
- we're not talking about the truth, but I think you're right. Yeah, I
- Well, again, I think it's if we're participants in the meeting where we're decision-making participants,
- then we have to have it noticed. If it says we're banned and we all show up, we're not making any decisions.
- And the only thing I would say with that, ultimately, we will be making decisions on this. Oh, I understand
- that, but I just want- No, no, no, no, not those individual micro-decisions.
- Maybe put a fact-finding. Yeah. I don't want to participate in every meeting. How about you put it so
- you make a motion. I'm not putting words in your mouth, but just trying to paraphrase it. Maybe we can
- a motion that we make it so all council members, all or none kind of all council members are able to
- attend without violating quorum rules. Right. Is that that because that's the intention, the intent.
- That's my intent. Okay.
- We can direct Darla to write Well, I think the first motion covers it okay, what was the first motion
- I don't even remember it was for public meetings, but Okay public meetings or that all five councilmembers
- can attend and this would probably help the township to
- because I'm sure they're under the same regulations. They are, but we can't do anything related. No,
- but I'm just saying that this could help them too, if it is an advertised meeting. No, because they
- have to notice it separately. Just because we put out a meeting, it doesn't matter. All right,
- I got you. Okay, so your motion is that any meeting associated with this is a noticed council meeting. Right.
- even the small committees were not. Exactly, because I may want to come to a small committee if there's
- something on there that I'm very concerned about. I may want to sit in and listen to it. OK. I might
- as well keep it as complicated as we can. So isn't it normal practice for things like this that because
- it's so hard to sink everybody's
- Ability to be at every meeting and especially when it comes down to subcommittee meetings that the board
- Appoints different people for different aspects of a project of this. Yeah, that's true Mike, but still
- This is the thing that if I'm not on that particular board I still may want to sit out in the audience
- and if we don't do it like this I would not be allowed to be in here with three council members because
- you could have public comment or take
- anything from the public, and I wouldn't be allowed to say anything. I don't know if that's necessarily
- true. And this is why we need Darla. You're right, but here's where I'm coming from. If all five of
- us wanted to go to Bloomington City Council meeting together, we could do that, because we are not the
- ones in power in that making decisions. We are simply members of the audience, and if we want to express
- that public comment, we could do that, just like going to Edgewood Band. If we go to a subcommittee
- meeting, if we're not the ones in power,
- we're just a audience member, then I don't think that kicks in. If, however, what you're saying is that
- we're gonna preside, five of us are gonna preside over every one of these subcommittee meetings, that's
- just micromanaging this thing. No, but I'm saying, if that's how this is going forward, then. No, that's
- not what I'm intending. Okay, again, but that, to me, us noticing a council meeting puts us in charge
- of the meeting.
- Us noticing that it's a council meeting we would have to call the meeting to order We would have to
- do our agenda just like we do required legally and that would if nothing else just by appearances Put
- us in charge of the meeting because we would be the one calling it to order We would be the one adjourning
- it wouldn't be a subcommittee meeting It would be a council meeting where the subcommittee says the
- floor is yours for however long you want
- And I agree, this is getting way too complicated and we need the attorneys for this. I would just leave
- my amendment in there and second it and she can look it over. If there's a problem, then we can address
- it later. I agree, we can open it back up to address that particular language, but I exactly see what
- you're saying. I have seen advertisements, just to let you know in the past, not here in Alexville, but says,
- over the quorum or something of members may be present, but not participating in the proceedings.
- But again, Dan's right, that's a Darla issue, but I'm not opposed to making a motion. They're all public
- meetings, because like I said, by statute they have to be. So this just reiterates that to the public.
- It swatches some concerns and Darla can work out the
- We can vote on the clear language of that part of it When she's back, I agree let's go for okay So we
- have an amendment on the table and a second and a second with that So the amendment is that all meetings
- associated will be a notice council meeting. No All meetings would be public Okay, well that doesn't
- require council meeting well
- That's why I gotta, you know, I need to talk to the attorney to make sure. Just because it's a public
- meeting, okay, I get where you're going, but... Yeah, and there's no sense us arguing it. You're right.
- Dan, I'm gonna tell you upfront, I'm not arguing with you. I'm gonna vote no on it simply because what
- we're trying to do, I get what you're trying to do and I agree with it, doesn't require the council
- to be in charge of it. And that's the fear that this is overly complicating it from the get-go. If we
- wanna come back and restrict it with Darla's tutelage, I want more power to us. Let's do that.
- Because it's just so complicated and I'm not sure it's needed. That's why I'm gonna wind up voting no
- Well and and to be honest, I think that would look good to the public too if we make this all meetings
- or a public meeting so they can attend Because I'm sure there's some some people out there that want
- to hear this too. But again, I see And they may never show up. I've got no problems with that. I think
- you're exactly correct It should be because the public should be involved but the council shouldn't
- be in charge of every meeting is
- No, I'm not saying that. Okay, well to me, that's what the amendment means. No, just public meetings.
- Don't be surprised if Darla comes back and say that's redundant, because the meeting by statute has
- to be. That's fine. But either way, it's a good way to communicate to the public that we're gonna make
- sure that's upheld. Right. Is there any further comment on the amendment only? That's what we're voting
- on first. Is there public comment on the amendment? Now we're back to council for a vote.
- roll call when you're ready. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay so the amendment passes. Now the initial motion
- was to approve an exploratory committee
- allowing Mike to move forward with exploring options. It would be allowing the town council and the
- township board to jointly explore your organization. All right, that motion is on the table and been
- seconded. Roll call when you're ready. Who's second? I'm sorry, is there any public comment on this?
- Because it's so vital. Okay, now go ahead. I second it. Thank you. Scott Oldham. Yes. Dan Swafford.
- Yes. William Ellis.
- Yes. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pam Samples? Yes. Motion carries. Okay. That completes that. Did you have anything
- else in the new business? No. Well, yeah, I'd just like to thank Friday night we had an outage in town.
- I don't think besides the people inside the outage knew about it. We had to use police, fire, and DPW
- spearheaded the job. We repaired a 12 inch
- Water main and so I was just really impressed with the plan and how it was implemented and Definitely
- liked the end result. We we had success and we did it the middle night and I really appreciate how efficient
- and cooperative and collaborative all the departments are and I will say I was part of the outage and
- I loved it you guys I didn't even notice it till the next morning. It was it was amazing
- I mean, I wish we could always do things like that, but I understand sometimes we can't but Yeah Okay
- moving on now to privilege of the floor anyone having business for the council not part of our normal
- agenda for this evening No one rises in chambers there is no one online that I see we'll move now to
- supervisor comments beginning with the town manager I
- Chief. I just wanted to let you guys know, if you haven't seen on Facebook, we will not be having a
- calendar made this year. Thank God. I had, yeah, people were really upset. They wanted to order our
- calendar, but you guys had zero donors.
- I said you could just Xerox it, but... Oh, there's so much that I want to go down the road with, but
- we're not gonna... On to you. Nothing from planning either? Anything from clerk's office? No. Okay.
- Move now to council comments. And I'd like to lead us off with congratulating the Ellsville Marching
- Mustangs. Four years in a row. As state champions. Just an absolutely incredible job by the kids.
- by Mr. Wells and his staff, it just doesn't get any better than that. It's just an incredible record
- of success, because not only put that, he's won, or they have won state four indoor percussion, which
- happens in the winter, multiple state championships in the last four years. So again, that's just a
- program that does nothing but succeed, and really, really helps the kids out, and the kids put in an entirely
- awesome amount of work that if you don't know what goes into that, you need to go see it. Again, thanks
- to them. Congratulations. Anyone else? I always do. I'll say it again. I just want to thank Mike and
- the Township Board of Richland. This is probably the most historic and the biggest thing that Ellisville's
- considered in their history.
- definitely not taking it lightly. And if you're in the public and you're one that, you know, you're
- concerned with this or you like it or don't like it, we'll be giving information on how to choose committee
- members and that. So we want to hear from you because we do not want this to be decided by a small group
- and then rolled out. We have to make a campaign for Richland Township residents and the town of Ellisville
- residents that this is in their best interest and that means
- As Dan was saying, total transparency. And then the other thing is we have to make sure it benefits
- both and not one or the other. And so far, it's great that we're both looking to explore this. And we
- will be an unstoppable town, whatever the town's name is, because that can be up for grabs too in your
- organization. But I just, I'm humbled to be part of this council
- that has been tasked with considering this. And I just want the public to know we want to hear from you.