We're gonna call it over the Monday, November 10th, 2025 meeting in Ellsville Town Council. Chief, care
for the prayer. I have to follow this one more time. We come before you to thank you for this little
town that we serve. We thank you for our employees. We thank you for our supervisors. We ask you to
be with us throughout this meeting. We ask the same. In Jesus' name, amen. Deputy Chief, with fire.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation,
under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Roll call when you're ready. Here. Here. Here.
Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here.
Here. Here.
Actions to pay accounts payable voucher and payroll vouchers Motion second all those in favor say aye
aye any opposed any abstaining Well, here's how it goes ladies and gentlemen, there are no resolutions
there are no ordinances on first reading There is one ordinance on second reading which is ordinance
2025-25 Creating a separate vehicle replacement fund for the stormwater utility
And it will be driven by The right so that's right pays come in a portion of it will go to back to say
for right As I pointed out we're actually at this point
what says creating a separate vehicle replacement fund, it's actually creating a non-reverting fund.
So the money can build in there and that takes an action of council. Questions from council? You wanna
say anything about this? Motions from council. I'll move to pass ordinance 2025-25, creating a separate
vehicle replacement fund for the stormwater utility. Second. Motion second, roll call please.
Yes. Dan Swafford? Yes. William Ellis? Yes. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pamela Samples? Yes. There is no old
business. And our new business tonight, point one, is Santa on Sale Street, September, December 13th,
2025. Saturday, September 13th. I'll speak too. I just wanted to let everybody know Santa on Sale Street
will be December 13th from 8 to 11. I think Santa arrives on a firetruck about 930.
come in early and get breakfast, buffet, and there'll be crafts. The library will be set up for a visit
with Santa and friends. Photos, toys, you can write a letter to North Pole if you need to. And we just
want to encourage everybody to come down. It's great for the kids. Outstanding. I understand you have
other new business you want to talk about. I do. I'm going to read a statement.
I read the same statement at the RDC meeting prior to this meeting. There is a chance to reorganize
as a government unit. And the reorganization would be with Richland Township in the town of Elstville.
We'd like to explore a proposal to reorganize. And in a reorganized town, the two entities would become
one. Reading off script.
Richland Township and the town of Elstil are exploring a proposal to formally reorganize into a single
government entity. This proactive step would be part of a collaborative effort to protect essential
public services, preserve local identity, and create a more efficient and sustainable structure for
future growth for the entire township.
recent changes to state law senate bill one have placed increased pressure on rural townships and small
towns to operate with more efficiently with fewer resources at the same time there's a growing discussion
at the state level possible limiting township government altogether the proposed reorganization allows
richland township and elso to take the lead in shaping their shared future rather than reacting to outside
decisions this proposal
Proposed reorganization would aim to give everyone, both in Richland Township and Elstville, a shared
voice to shape the community. Through reorganization, local leaders hope to preserve what makes this
area special while working smarter, planning more effectively, and building a stronger, more connected,
reorganized town together. Okay, thank you. I wanna make one quick comment for clarification. This is
not an annexation.
This is a merger of the two governmental bodies. Actually, it's a reorganization reorganization, but
I don't want people to think we're trying to annex the entire township. This is a proposed reorganization
of both governmental bodies into one. That's true. And to be more specific, this is
a move to explore the proposal to reorganize. This is not to say we are going to reorganize. The exploration
and the vetting of the process is first with a culmination of then after a reorganization committee
and the subcommittees would form a plan that would be voted on by both the township advisory board and the town
of Ellitsville town board. At that time, that plan would move to a referendum that would be voted on
in November, 2026 and become the new entity January 1, 2027. There's a lot in what I just said. And
so there's a lot of questions, but at this point,
I just came from a meeting with advisory board and they voted to proceed with the exploration.
At this point, the process would be to explore how it could be done, what it would cost, what's the
implications. We have a meeting at 3 o'clock with Baker Tilley here. Advisory board will be here. Hopefully
a couple of town board members can come. Lawyers will be here and there will be a lot of vetting of
the physical
aspects of the reorganization and how it might better fortify the fire department and allow for future
economic development and how the process would work and exactly where the money comes from and how it
falls into place. Questions? No, but again, I just want to clarify one thing for everybody because I
know some people are going to hear a portion of what you said and be worried about it.
This will go to the township advisory board and this board if we're going to move forward with moving
it to a referendum. If it goes to a referendum, that means everybody in the township gets to vote on
this. It is not simply the boards doing this. It is everyone in the township. The majority would have
to approve it. That's correct. Questions from council.
For the general public that may have interest in Friday, it's going to be recorded so that way people
can start kind of hearing about what's going on financially. Yes, we're going to put as much sunshine
on this process as we can beginning with Friday's event. We haven't talked to CATS yet, but we'll record
it ourselves if we have to and then allow CATS to distribute it later. There will be tons of public
meetings. We plan on having
public education that will be direct to each household as well as open houses on maybe every Friday
in the morning for a couple hours. We will have an open door to answer any and all questions. I would
also ask maybe we have a couple late afternoon, early evening ones. We're gonna mix it up. We're gonna
mix it up so people are not left, people that have to work for a living are not left in the lurch. And
so weekends,
We plan on some open houses on Saturday where people can come in, grieve, ask questions, critique, whatever
it takes to get the public completely involved in this. Elksville is in Richland Township, and this
is a process where it will just become one entity. And just to be clear too, I think that they've said
it, but I'll say it again. This is just exploring the opportunity.
We want what's best for the town residents, but I also want what's best for Richland Township because
they're kind of the greater, not Indianapolis, but Ellitsville jurisdiction. They come here a lot. They
use our facilities. And I want to show that there's a way you can expand without forcibly annexing people.
We've not done it in the past.
forcefully annex we have no plans to in the future and If all this information comes back and the town
council the Township board say this isn't going to be best for our residents We're still going to part
as friends. I mean, it's it's not like the world world ends, but This is needed to See if it to get
those those numbers and those numbers will come from the committees not from
I mean, Baker, until you get your kind of a rough guesstimate, right? No, we'll get it. Actually, we'll
finally have an exact estimate. The process will be a work session, and we'll use some scenarios to
create answers to what happens if we do this, that, and the other. But I'm saying there may be some
that we haven't considered. The subcommittees are going to say, how about we do this and that? Well,
that's true. We're not going to be able to cover
That's every scenario when the plan is when the plan is complete the physical plan will be absolutely
yes But that that requires he knows it's not an idea hatched locally. This was Recommend it's
been recommended by some state level entities as well as our Consultants mentioned that other people
have done it. This is not a first-time
And we're looking at the Sheridan, Town of Sheridan and the Adams Township consolidation that happened
in 2024. It seems to be a good template for what we may or may not wanna do. But this, everything that'll
be decided will be decided by the reorganization committee and their subcommittees. This is not a dictate
from one side or the other. And like I said, there'll be plenty of sunshine on this and the township,
will be well represented. I mean, it's basically, we look at it as to be an even-sided representation.
And just for clarity, I think one of the things that drove this initial conversation is the state and
the governor expressing a overwhelming desire to do away with township governments. So if that comes
to pass, there are issues that are gonna come about because of that, that hopefully this staves some
of that off.
Yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't want to overstate that, but that is a true statement. And one of the things
that really launched our interest about going through this process is the township currently with the
town shares a fire department. And it's well run. And we have good equipment and good people.
with the SB1 and some of the revenue constraints in the future, we're looking at ways to fortify and
maybe even enhance our fire protection. Questions from council or comments? So what's going on this
Friday? I've asked Bank of Tilly to start the process of going through the physical part of
the prop of when we would consolidate. And I ask them, I give them several scenarios about some of the
needs that we might have, whether it be equipment or labor force, firefighters, police, et cetera. And
I ask them to take that and look at the
dwindling revenues that the township has as well as the town and how best to fit this proposal with
a fiscal plan. And what time is that? Three o'clock Friday afternoon. And this is a public meeting?
It's supposed to be a work session. The township
Board is going to be there on how that's been arranged, but that's on their side, but I believe I can
talk to our lawyer about how many of the town board members can be there. Yeah, I mean, I think we need
to have it a public meeting because I don't want two or three council members to show up. We got to
send one home. This is something that is going to affect all of us. It's a big decision.
I want all of us to know what's going on at all times. Yeah, we can arrange that in the future, but
that won't happen. Well, why won't it? It's a notice public. Yeah, I don't know. Can we? Yeah, we can
put it out. Okay, then what do you know? Yeah, I mean, I have a joint work session. I didn't think we
had enough time. Well, if we don't have enough time, then I suggest move it back because this is something
that I'm going to be very adamant on. I'd like to attend all these meetings.
and I want all the information I can on it. I do not wanna rely on someone telling me. So. I'll see
what we can do. So if you, well first off, I think we need to have a vote expressing our ability to
either move forward with investing in the process or not. So is there a council member that wants to
put forward a motion? I'll make a motion to enter into
agreement to look at the facts for reorganization with the township of Richland and be able to start
the process for assigning committees. Can we amend that to the meetings being all public? They all,
by statute, they're all public. Well, we're just talking about one for Friday.
that we don't know if we can get or not. But that's not part of the process for this. It is part of
the process, William. No. Yes, it is. We have to know all this information, and we're having a meeting
on it Friday, so let's make it where all meetings are public or... That's fine. Hang on. Let's make
my cut to the chase. Is there a second on William's motion?
Okay, there's a motion a second on that. There is now an amendment on the floor. Dan, you want to reword
that? That all the meetings will be held publicly, so more than two board members can attend. Anything
that has to do with this should be public. Otherwise, I don't know how else we could have more than
two board members. Okay, well, hang on, back up, make it as a motion, not as an argument. Yeah, no,
I'm just trying to figure out. Go ahead.
Do you want a second? I recognize him, let him talk. Yeah, I just. My only thing here, Dan, I'll be
honest with you, is that some of this will be administrative between Baker-Tilley and that we don't
need to come together on. Right. It'll be presented to us at a later point. So I don't say you can say
every meeting is going to be. And that's why I was trying to talk it through. Yeah, OK, so think about
it for a second. What if you added this onto an agenda? Make an agenda item. Update. Hang on, Mike has
an idea. Is there a talk? No, go ahead.
Okay, so if you would vote to restart the process, there'll be a reorganization committee chosen, and
it'll be chosen by both boards. It'll be seven member board, and then they'll have subcommittees. There'll
be times when they're working ad hoc, odd times, sometimes they'll meet
quickly because their other lives allow for it. So I don't, when you said all meetings, I would like
you to. Well, I just want to make sure, and this is something that would probably need Darla's input
on, that if these committee meets, subcommittees, everything that is public so that any board member
can sit in the audience or be part of, so that's what my goal is.
And I appreciate the goal that as I said not unlike what we do around here on a day-to-day basis Sometimes
the ability to meet happens when everybody can meet or then all of a sudden they can't meet and then
so it'll the logistics of some of the smaller subcommittees When you say all meetings you put you put
a blanket over well, and I I appreciate all that and
But this is something that we have never done before. This is very big. And personally, I've lived here
my entire life. I want to be a part of it. And I'm sure there's other people that would too, so. Well,
maybe here's a good way to solve this problem. Maybe we say they all have to be recorded. Even the,
I mean. Well, I mean, I don't see the problem of just having a meeting.
Here's the problem we have, man. We can't tell another government entity what they have to do. No, but
we can make a schedule just like we do our board meeting. Well, I think you're right. But we are here.
We're not arguing that point. So I'm sorry to phrase it this way. Here, we're just saying, yes, you
can move forward with beginning the process, which would include fixing meetings. So this is kind of
like step one of 400. Right. So I think until we get to where we're forming, if we get that far,
these exploratory committees to start going into point by point, then we could set meetings that have
to be public. But this vote is only for can Mike move forward in combination with leadership from the
township to investigate whether this is feasible or not. And I appreciate that. I really do. But you
guys are kind of bypassing my point here. You did state earlier that the entire board would be here
from the township.
No different than us. We may all wanna be here. And by all, we can't be here. But we're not arguing
Friday's meeting. We have time to notice that. We just can't do the, in my opinion, we can't do every
meeting is going to be public, because every meeting won't include us. It may include the township board.
But I don't see the problem with it being. Because I don't know legally we can tell the township board
that it's a public meeting. We can't with the township. Can I chime in based on the shared plan we're going?
All the committees and subcommittees, they had a schedule when they meet. Two weeks before each meeting,
postcards were sent out to every resident in the township saying the meeting on, as an example, public
safety is this date. So they were public. They were all public meetings, very well advertised, not just
a check box where you put it in the newspaper. And I think in talking to, you know, by hearing all the
time, Mike, about we're gonna follow the Sheridan plan for the most part,
We'll be doing the same thing. So it's not like we're gonna have one meeting. You know, they're gonna
have one meeting, but a lot of those subcommittees, I don't know if, I mean, I have no problem with,
they're all gonna be open to the public, but I see what you mean. If you have more than two of us there.
So I just think we take those on a case by case basis and we can advertise that.
I'll double down on trying to do what you're, to try to ensure your intent is taken care of. Yeah,
I mean, I wanna guarantee, I don't wanna hear, well, we didn't have enough time, and so this meeting
wasn't open to the public, or only two board members can show up. I mean, this has gotta be, and William
stated that they did it,
They send it out every two weeks. That's a public meeting. That means all of us can attend. But I don't
think I don't understand what the problem is. I don't think that included all the subcommittee meetings.
This actually sounds like an issue for Darla. And I said I stated so if you want to come back with that
motion again or if you want to. But what about Friday's meeting Friday? Well, Friday's meeting we were
discussed. He's going to notice it so we can all be there. Friday's meeting is taken care of.
I did not know the advisory board would be there, but I did invite them to at least send representatives
and they indicated they're all coming. That is their decision. This was a meeting I was going to have
if nobody showed up because I need the physical information just to decide if we want to go ahead.
And to be clear, that Friday meeting is not part of the legal process of what we're voting on today.
So even if this weren't, I mean, we wouldn't have it if this weren't being entertained, but that's not
one of the things we legally have to do, but we've taken care of that for the public. This is just kind
of the first, we're finding out the information for the first time on some of the numbers too.
This is a great meeting for people to look into, but they have to understand these will not be the numbers
that'll end up being approved. These are just rough drafts because that's all gonna be driven by the
township and town residents that are in these subcommittees and then brought back to the respective
councils to vote on. And they might look a little different. So I just wanna caution, if we see numbers Friday,
We don't wanna say this is what's going to happen, because we can't. The committees are going to decide
that, and they're not even formed yet. So who's going Friday? All of us can go Friday, because he's
gonna notice it as a council meeting, as a work session, sorry. Dan, I'm sorry, do you still have an
amendment motion on the table, and if so, what is it again, to make it a little clearer?
My motion would be, if I'm gonna put it on there, that I want all meetings pertaining to this be public
so all five council members can attend if wanted. Okay, so is that your motion now? That's my motion.
Is there a second on that motion? Second. Okay, so again, we're gonna vote on the amendment, no. We
have to vote on the primary first, then we'll vote on the amendment, okay? I think you do them both
together. No, you have to do them separately, because it's an amendment. I think you do the amendment first.
Can we do the amendment first? I think so, because that may determine. I'm fine if. On how people vote.
Okay, that's fine. If we wanna go that way as long as we're all in agreement. So the amendment will
go first for roll call vote, and that is that all public, all these meetings involving this will be
public, correct? Hang on a second, sorry. So you're just thinking this in case any of these meetings
that happen, all five of us could show up and there not be a legal issue. Exactly. Okay. Okay, then
we need to, instead of public meetings,
Advertised meetings that was a friction. I think we need to have because if the public meetings that
doesn't mean all five of us can show up You see that's why I needed to our list, right? I think it if
it is a public meeting you can Because like we could all go to a Edgewood band concert be there, but
we're not talking about the truth, but I think you're right. Yeah, I
Well, again, I think it's if we're participants in the meeting where we're decision-making participants,
then we have to have it noticed. If it says we're banned and we all show up, we're not making any decisions.
And the only thing I would say with that, ultimately, we will be making decisions on this. Oh, I understand
that, but I just want- No, no, no, no, not those individual micro-decisions.
Maybe put a fact-finding. Yeah. I don't want to participate in every meeting. How about you put it so
you make a motion. I'm not putting words in your mouth, but just trying to paraphrase it. Maybe we can
a motion that we make it so all council members, all or none kind of all council members are able to
attend without violating quorum rules. Right. Is that that because that's the intention, the intent.
That's my intent. Okay.
We can direct Darla to write Well, I think the first motion covers it okay, what was the first motion
I don't even remember it was for public meetings, but Okay public meetings or that all five councilmembers
can attend and this would probably help the township to
because I'm sure they're under the same regulations. They are, but we can't do anything related. No,
but I'm just saying that this could help them too, if it is an advertised meeting. No, because they
have to notice it separately. Just because we put out a meeting, it doesn't matter. All right,
I got you. Okay, so your motion is that any meeting associated with this is a noticed council meeting. Right.
even the small committees were not. Exactly, because I may want to come to a small committee if there's
something on there that I'm very concerned about. I may want to sit in and listen to it. OK. I might
as well keep it as complicated as we can. So isn't it normal practice for things like this that because
it's so hard to sink everybody's
Ability to be at every meeting and especially when it comes down to subcommittee meetings that the board
Appoints different people for different aspects of a project of this. Yeah, that's true Mike, but still
This is the thing that if I'm not on that particular board I still may want to sit out in the audience
and if we don't do it like this I would not be allowed to be in here with three council members because
you could have public comment or take
anything from the public, and I wouldn't be allowed to say anything. I don't know if that's necessarily
true. And this is why we need Darla. You're right, but here's where I'm coming from. If all five of
us wanted to go to Bloomington City Council meeting together, we could do that, because we are not the
ones in power in that making decisions. We are simply members of the audience, and if we want to express
that public comment, we could do that, just like going to Edgewood Band. If we go to a subcommittee
meeting, if we're not the ones in power,
we're just a audience member, then I don't think that kicks in. If, however, what you're saying is that
we're gonna preside, five of us are gonna preside over every one of these subcommittee meetings, that's
just micromanaging this thing. No, but I'm saying, if that's how this is going forward, then. No, that's
not what I'm intending. Okay, again, but that, to me, us noticing a council meeting puts us in charge
of the meeting.
Us noticing that it's a council meeting we would have to call the meeting to order We would have to
do our agenda just like we do required legally and that would if nothing else just by appearances Put
us in charge of the meeting because we would be the one calling it to order We would be the one adjourning
it wouldn't be a subcommittee meeting It would be a council meeting where the subcommittee says the
floor is yours for however long you want
And I agree, this is getting way too complicated and we need the attorneys for this. I would just leave
my amendment in there and second it and she can look it over. If there's a problem, then we can address
it later. I agree, we can open it back up to address that particular language, but I exactly see what
you're saying. I have seen advertisements, just to let you know in the past, not here in Alexville, but says,
over the quorum or something of members may be present, but not participating in the proceedings.
But again, Dan's right, that's a Darla issue, but I'm not opposed to making a motion. They're all public
meetings, because like I said, by statute they have to be. So this just reiterates that to the public.
It swatches some concerns and Darla can work out the
We can vote on the clear language of that part of it When she's back, I agree let's go for okay So we
have an amendment on the table and a second and a second with that So the amendment is that all meetings
associated will be a notice council meeting. No All meetings would be public Okay, well that doesn't
require council meeting well
That's why I gotta, you know, I need to talk to the attorney to make sure. Just because it's a public
meeting, okay, I get where you're going, but... Yeah, and there's no sense us arguing it. You're right.
Dan, I'm gonna tell you upfront, I'm not arguing with you. I'm gonna vote no on it simply because what
we're trying to do, I get what you're trying to do and I agree with it, doesn't require the council
to be in charge of it. And that's the fear that this is overly complicating it from the get-go. If we
wanna come back and restrict it with Darla's tutelage, I want more power to us. Let's do that.
Because it's just so complicated and I'm not sure it's needed. That's why I'm gonna wind up voting no
Well and and to be honest, I think that would look good to the public too if we make this all meetings
or a public meeting so they can attend Because I'm sure there's some some people out there that want
to hear this too. But again, I see And they may never show up. I've got no problems with that. I think
you're exactly correct It should be because the public should be involved but the council shouldn't
be in charge of every meeting is
No, I'm not saying that. Okay, well to me, that's what the amendment means. No, just public meetings.
Don't be surprised if Darla comes back and say that's redundant, because the meeting by statute has
to be. That's fine. But either way, it's a good way to communicate to the public that we're gonna make
sure that's upheld. Right. Is there any further comment on the amendment only? That's what we're voting
on first. Is there public comment on the amendment? Now we're back to council for a vote.
roll call when you're ready. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay so the amendment passes. Now the initial motion
was to approve an exploratory committee
allowing Mike to move forward with exploring options. It would be allowing the town council and the
township board to jointly explore your organization. All right, that motion is on the table and been
seconded. Roll call when you're ready. Who's second? I'm sorry, is there any public comment on this?
Because it's so vital. Okay, now go ahead. I second it. Thank you. Scott Oldham. Yes. Dan Swafford.
Yes. William Ellis.
Yes. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pam Samples? Yes. Motion carries. Okay. That completes that. Did you have anything
else in the new business? No. Well, yeah, I'd just like to thank Friday night we had an outage in town.
I don't think besides the people inside the outage knew about it. We had to use police, fire, and DPW
spearheaded the job. We repaired a 12 inch
Water main and so I was just really impressed with the plan and how it was implemented and Definitely
liked the end result. We we had success and we did it the middle night and I really appreciate how efficient
and cooperative and collaborative all the departments are and I will say I was part of the outage and
I loved it you guys I didn't even notice it till the next morning. It was it was amazing
I mean, I wish we could always do things like that, but I understand sometimes we can't but Yeah Okay
moving on now to privilege of the floor anyone having business for the council not part of our normal
agenda for this evening No one rises in chambers there is no one online that I see we'll move now to
supervisor comments beginning with the town manager I
Chief. I just wanted to let you guys know, if you haven't seen on Facebook, we will not be having a
calendar made this year. Thank God. I had, yeah, people were really upset. They wanted to order our
calendar, but you guys had zero donors.
I said you could just Xerox it, but... Oh, there's so much that I want to go down the road with, but
we're not gonna... On to you. Nothing from planning either? Anything from clerk's office? No. Okay.
Move now to council comments. And I'd like to lead us off with congratulating the Ellsville Marching
Mustangs. Four years in a row. As state champions. Just an absolutely incredible job by the kids.
by Mr. Wells and his staff, it just doesn't get any better than that. It's just an incredible record
of success, because not only put that, he's won, or they have won state four indoor percussion, which
happens in the winter, multiple state championships in the last four years. So again, that's just a
program that does nothing but succeed, and really, really helps the kids out, and the kids put in an entirely
awesome amount of work that if you don't know what goes into that, you need to go see it. Again, thanks
to them. Congratulations. Anyone else? I always do. I'll say it again. I just want to thank Mike and
the Township Board of Richland. This is probably the most historic and the biggest thing that Ellisville's
considered in their history.
definitely not taking it lightly. And if you're in the public and you're one that, you know, you're
concerned with this or you like it or don't like it, we'll be giving information on how to choose committee
members and that. So we want to hear from you because we do not want this to be decided by a small group
and then rolled out. We have to make a campaign for Richland Township residents and the town of Ellisville
residents that this is in their best interest and that means
As Dan was saying, total transparency. And then the other thing is we have to make sure it benefits
both and not one or the other. And so far, it's great that we're both looking to explore this. And we
will be an unstoppable town, whatever the town's name is, because that can be up for grabs too in your
organization. But I just, I'm humbled to be part of this council
that has been tasked with considering this. And I just want the public to know we want to hear from you.