WEBVTT 00:00:02.530 --> 00:00:08.762 - We call to order the Monday, February 9th, being the Ellensville Town Council. Marshal, prayer. 00:00:08.762 --> 00:00:15.320 - Thank you, sir. Once again, I have the Father come before you and ask you for your guidance tonight. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:21.812 - We ask you for your mercy for us. Please be with us if you make the decision to affect the town. We 00:00:21.812 --> 00:00:28.369 - ask these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of 00:00:28.369 --> 00:00:31.550 - America and to the Republic for which it stands, 00:00:31.842 --> 00:00:45.949 - One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Whenever you're ready for roll 00:00:45.949 --> 00:00:56.670 - call. Here. Here. Here. Here. Here. Award bid for septic receiving section. 00:01:02.178 --> 00:01:12.658 - Who is this? Me. You. I've reviewed both bids. They're pretty much identical. I don't see any reason 00:01:12.658 --> 00:01:23.241 - not to take the lowest bid. And it is $1,744 less than the higher bid. OK. Questions from council? Is 00:01:23.241 --> 00:01:31.646 - there a motion from council? Make a motion to award the bid for Eric Mastin, 57, 00:01:31.906 --> 00:01:40.143 - 30,000. Second. Motion is second. Holds a favor. Well, let's do a roll call, please. Scott Holden? Yes. 00:01:40.143 --> 00:01:48.617 - Dan Swafford? Yes. William Ellis? Yes. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pamela Samples? Yes. Motion passes. Now, minutes 00:01:48.617 --> 00:01:56.774 - of the February 2nd, 2026. They're not available, so we're not going to vote on those. Well, let's try 00:01:56.774 --> 00:02:00.734 - accounts, payable vouchers, and payroll vouchers. 00:02:01.538 --> 00:02:10.450 - Summon. Motion second, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Anyone abstaining? Acknowledgement 00:02:10.450 --> 00:02:19.030 - of TIF management report for 2025. Yes, this is a report that needs to be filed with the DLGF by April 00:02:19.030 --> 00:02:26.526 - 15th and so Baker Tilley has passed this along to the town board for review and approval. 00:02:26.626 --> 00:02:33.814 - and at the redevelopment commission meeting earlier this evening, the redevelopment commission board 00:02:33.814 --> 00:02:41.073 - acknowledged the report. So if you would approve the report, I'd appreciate it, and then Noel can get 00:02:41.073 --> 00:02:48.261 - it posted on the gateway. So I guess I'm sorry, you need some type of motion? If you would. Is there 00:02:48.261 --> 00:02:52.318 - a motion to acknowledge the TIF report? I make a motion. 00:02:52.514 --> 00:03:09.191 - Motion to the management of the tip management report for 2025. Motion second. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. 00:03:09.191 --> 00:03:19.614 - Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. 00:03:24.226 --> 00:03:32.856 - anyone. I think Carson this is when you talk. I'll try to back you up. I appreciate it. Good evening 00:03:32.856 --> 00:03:41.486 - town board and other members. I appreciate the opportunity to be here before you tonight. With me is 00:03:41.486 --> 00:03:46.014 - Dennis Fisher, who is our president of the board and 00:03:46.178 --> 00:03:53.145 - When loser draw first of all I can say that the projects at Richland would not be here without the continued 00:03:53.145 --> 00:03:59.601 - and very strong support of the else filled town board over the years and we don't take that lightly. 00:03:59.601 --> 00:04:06.249 - There's a lot you know I I grew up in Ellisville as Dennis did as well and there's a lot that I believe 00:04:06.249 --> 00:04:12.768 - we can be proud of in Ellisville and there's a lot that we do in Ellisville that I think is second to 00:04:12.768 --> 00:04:14.686 - none, but I would argue that. 00:04:14.850 --> 00:04:22.074 - The senior citizen housing projects here have been not just state, but we've won national awards as 00:04:22.074 --> 00:04:29.660 - best practices and done a lot of good things since 1968 with that first board. And we've even got second 00:04:29.660 --> 00:04:37.101 - generation people on the board and third generation people involved with the board like Jimmy Durnall. 00:04:37.101 --> 00:04:44.542 - So it's been very much a community-based board and it's been something that I believe Ellsville can be 00:04:44.674 --> 00:04:55.405 - very proud of and it's provided a lot of needed housing for those elderly households 62 and older. So 00:04:55.405 --> 00:05:06.135 - we have last came to you about three years ago and we did renovations of all the existing housing and 00:05:06.135 --> 00:05:09.502 - we constructed 50 new units and 00:05:09.602 --> 00:05:17.639 - Just so that you know, thanks to your help and your support, we opened 100% occupied on day one. And 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:25.836 - not only did we open day one at 100% occupancy, but there is an unbelievable amount of demand of folks 00:05:25.836 --> 00:05:28.382 - that want to be able to come up 00:05:28.514 --> 00:05:36.688 - to Richland Senior Housing and live. And so we're in a position right now that our waiting list is about 00:05:36.688 --> 00:05:44.472 - two years long. And so the board got together and decided that they wanted to try to make an effort 00:05:44.472 --> 00:05:52.568 - at building 55 more one bedroom apartments. And due to the length of our waiting list, we can fill that 00:05:52.568 --> 00:05:53.502 - on day one. 00:05:53.698 --> 00:06:00.909 - And so some of the things about the property is that it will be for those elderly households where they 00:06:00.909 --> 00:06:08.190 - are 62 and older. So we're talking about housing for the elderly here. Second of all, it will be housing 00:06:08.610 --> 00:06:15.990 - that is based on income and we've got a partnership that's been really good with the Bloomington Housing 00:06:15.990 --> 00:06:23.089 - Authority. They do not do the tenant selection. The tenant selection is completely done here locally 00:06:23.089 --> 00:06:31.102 - and it will house those folks that need rental assistance and they will pay roughly 30% of their adjusted income. 00:06:31.490 --> 00:06:40.416 - The project is going to be somewhere between six and six and a half million dollar project and our plans 00:06:40.416 --> 00:06:49.003 - while federal regulation require us that we have to open up bids everywhere. We are actively seeking 00:06:49.003 --> 00:06:55.294 - and have already contacted several local firms and my happy spot would be 00:06:55.394 --> 00:07:01.794 - using as much Ellisville and Ellisville related firms as we can, because I think that brings economic 00:07:01.794 --> 00:07:08.193 - development, it brings good things for the town of Ellisville to do those things. I can tell you that 00:07:08.193 --> 00:07:14.907 - Will Harris Builders is going to be our prime contractor in this, so we are using an Ellisville contractor 00:07:14.907 --> 00:07:21.118 - that is going to be doing this project if it's successful. And so the reason we're here tonight is 00:07:21.378 --> 00:07:28.872 - Really, as far as what affects the town, it's a net zero situation. Currently, we have two parcels of 00:07:28.872 --> 00:07:36.293 - land that are property tax exempt because Richland Senior Citizen Housing is a 501C3 not for profit. 00:07:36.293 --> 00:07:38.718 - In order to receive tax credits, 00:07:38.978 --> 00:07:45.461 - which gives us the equity and money to help construct this. It has to be a for profit entity, but no 00:07:45.461 --> 00:07:52.201 - one is getting profit. There's no individual or corporations getting a profit out of it. It is basically 00:07:52.201 --> 00:07:58.812 - a some zero project. And so what we're asking the town tonight through the TIF is to have property tax 00:07:58.812 --> 00:07:59.518 - exemption. 00:07:59.746 --> 00:08:06.512 - And again, it will not be any different than what you're doing now. You're currently not getting any 00:08:06.512 --> 00:08:13.345 - property taxes because it's by nonprofit, but because it takes a for-profit entity to receive the tax 00:08:13.345 --> 00:08:20.178 - credits, just like you did for phase six. We would ask that you grant us this property tax exemption. 00:08:20.178 --> 00:08:27.614 - And if that ends up happening, then we will turn in the application in March. We will find out roughly July 1, 00:08:27.810 --> 00:08:35.527 - And then as quick as we can get construction going after that, we would do it and it would look at about 00:08:35.527 --> 00:08:42.950 - a 2,027 first occupancy. So that's kind of the gist of it. I'd be happy to answer any questions that 00:08:42.950 --> 00:08:48.830 - any member might have. So you're looking at 50 new apartments. 55, one bedroom. 00:08:49.794 --> 00:08:55.548 - And we pay all utilities. So it'll literally be the residents come in, they pay 30% roughly. There's 00:08:55.548 --> 00:09:01.303 - some deductions they get for Medicare and out-of-pocket medical, but just easy way to think of it is 00:09:01.303 --> 00:09:07.057 - they'll pay roughly 30% of their utilities, all maintenance is covered, all grounds keeping covered, 00:09:07.057 --> 00:09:12.925 - and all utilities covered. So it's a really good thing. And for those of you that have not come up and 00:09:12.925 --> 00:09:15.774 - looked at the projects that you funded last time, 00:09:15.874 --> 00:09:22.574 - Open imitation anytime come up. We love to show it off that we have building that has movie theater. 00:09:22.574 --> 00:09:29.207 - We have a large community building that was constructed. We have fitness center. We have a library. 00:09:29.207 --> 00:09:36.305 - So we've got a lot of things that we're really proud of and really adds to the quality of life for elderly 00:09:36.305 --> 00:09:42.142 - to age in place. Yeah, with these this expansion, how will it lessen your waiting list? 00:09:42.946 --> 00:09:50.977 - Well, you know, it's really interesting because thankfully, for the most part, the only way we ever 00:09:50.977 --> 00:09:59.008 - lose a resident is after a nursing home. So it's really hard to gauge how all that's going to work. 00:09:59.008 --> 00:10:07.280 - But we probably have on the average about 15 vacancies a year that we fill. And so we think that based 00:10:07.280 --> 00:10:10.974 - upon the vacancies that we'll naturally fill, 00:10:11.202 --> 00:10:17.146 - looking at these 55 apartments and then looking at other applicants applying we still think we'll be 00:10:17.146 --> 00:10:23.267 - close to a one-year waiting list when this is done and going so you know we we just think it's you know 00:10:23.267 --> 00:10:29.565 - I'm very biased on it I'll admit that but I just think it's a great thing for the community it's something 00:10:29.565 --> 00:10:35.627 - everybody can feel good about and and just does does a lot of great things with the with the community 00:10:35.627 --> 00:10:38.334 - but it will be probably still a one-year list 00:10:39.522 --> 00:10:45.921 - Your waiting list. Is that a majority? Is it a majority of Ellisville residents? Is it Monroe County 00:10:45.921 --> 00:10:52.826 - residents? Well, by law, we have to open it up for anybody that wants to reside here, but just logistically, 00:10:52.826 --> 00:10:59.351 - because people know about them in Ellisville and want to stay in the community of Ellisville. The vast 00:10:59.351 --> 00:11:04.926 - majority are what I'll say Richland and Bean Blossom township people for the most part. 00:11:05.730 --> 00:11:14.704 - I guess it, I don't know the exact statistics, but I can look up and get that to you. I would say that 00:11:14.704 --> 00:11:23.504 - it's probably 60 to 65% Ellisville-ish people. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you for your time. I 00:11:23.504 --> 00:11:32.478 - really appreciate it. With Council's indulgement, let's jump down to the last item under new business. 00:11:32.610 --> 00:11:38.570 - I'm sorry, the second class time room business pilot agreement rich and senior citizens housing. That 00:11:38.570 --> 00:11:44.471 - will be approved actually as part of the ordinance at your next meeting. Okay. And second reading so 00:11:44.471 --> 00:11:50.547 - you can cross that off. Okay. All right. So we'll move on to ordinances on second reading this evening, 00:11:50.547 --> 00:11:54.462 - which is ordinance 26 dash zero to amending the sewer deposit fee. 00:11:55.042 --> 00:12:02.062 - So this came up at the last town council meeting and there was a proposal to raise the sewer deposit 00:12:02.062 --> 00:12:09.082 - fee from 100 to $250 for renters. And the council asked me if there were some other options or other 00:12:09.082 --> 00:12:16.032 - ways to look at it. And there are, and I had emailed to the council a case from the Indiana Supreme 00:12:16.032 --> 00:12:21.662 - court and some relevant statutes with regard to collection of unpaid sewer fees. 00:12:22.242 --> 00:12:30.326 - and I didn't know if the council thought any of those ideas were good ideas or if none of them were 00:12:30.326 --> 00:12:38.571 - good ideas, but what you could do is you could obviously raise the deposit for the renters. You could 00:12:38.571 --> 00:12:46.897 - start filing liens against the property when the sewer bill goes unpaid for more than 60 days. You can 00:12:46.897 --> 00:12:49.726 - initiate litigation almost always. 00:12:49.826 --> 00:12:56.353 - You can do both, you can initiate litigation and filing. So I didn't know what the council's pleasure 00:12:56.353 --> 00:13:02.752 - was, but I did have a chance to talk to Sean and Amber in utilities. And what they're telling me is 00:13:02.752 --> 00:13:09.407 - that what they already do is if a renter vacates a property and there's an unpaid sewer bill, they have 00:13:09.407 --> 00:13:15.870 - the owner of the property make good on the bill before they allow a new renter to rent the place and 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:19.134 - before they hook up the sewer, which is absolutely 00:13:19.362 --> 00:13:26.985 - permissible under the case I sent the council and the Indiana code. So then that would be between the 00:13:26.985 --> 00:13:34.683 - person that rents and the person that rents from. Yes, because the theory is that the rent, I mean the 00:13:34.683 --> 00:13:42.680 - landlord or the property owners in a better position to vet the tenants than is the town. And the landlord 00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:48.510 - obviously has the option of handling their business differently so they could 00:13:48.962 --> 00:13:54.567 - tell the tenant we're gonna pay your bill and add it to your rent. They could charge a deposit from 00:13:54.567 --> 00:14:00.173 - the tenant. I mean, there's different ways they can handle it, but if they end up having to pay the 00:14:00.173 --> 00:14:06.171 - bill, you shift the onus to the landlord to go find the tenant and get the money back from them if they've 00:14:06.171 --> 00:14:11.832 - already moved out. So basically, if the landlord has a deposit, as long as they know about the bill, 00:14:11.832 --> 00:14:17.886 - they can take that out of the deposit and then deal with it? Yes. Mike, do you know, or Jeff, what's the... 00:14:18.274 --> 00:14:29.117 - an average bill that we wind up holding. I talked to Sean yesterday about this, Friday about this. We 00:14:29.117 --> 00:14:40.066 - don't have a lot, or we haven't filed in a sewer lien. We can't remember when we ever had to file one. 00:14:40.066 --> 00:14:47.294 - Just the way we have it set up with the landlord seems to work out. 00:14:47.938 --> 00:14:57.739 - Very well. And then water is pretty simple. And water and sewer are the same. In most places, we have 00:14:57.739 --> 00:15:07.348 - very few sewer-only bills. So it's not something we have a lot of trouble with. Can we base a water 00:15:07.348 --> 00:15:17.534 - deposit on, I think, legally, it's based on a three-month average bill? So if we're getting them from the 00:15:18.050 --> 00:15:25.111 - the renter or the rentee. Never mind the person renting. Do we need this ordinance to go higher? I mean, 00:15:25.111 --> 00:15:31.836 - do we need to charge them more? Because if we're getting what they're in arrears, all this is doing 00:15:31.836 --> 00:15:38.830 - is tying up their money for a longer time. Or do we need some type of ordinance saying that we're going 00:15:38.830 --> 00:15:43.806 - to hold the landlord responsible? Yeah. That way they know ahead of time. 00:15:44.258 --> 00:15:51.071 - You already sort of do that in your ordinance. What you say is... I just thought it was kind of a little 00:15:51.071 --> 00:15:53.342 - vague, wasn't it? Well, but you... 00:15:53.858 --> 00:16:00.063 - Your word, your ordinance is word for word exactly what the Supreme Court approved in the Jeffersonville 00:16:00.063 --> 00:16:05.973 - case. So I'd say leave it alone. And what you said was, when you say in your ordinance, it's 52.117 00:16:05.973 --> 00:16:11.883 - billion collection. The rates and charges may be billed to the tenant, but this billing shall in no 00:16:11.883 --> 00:16:17.852 - way relieve the owner from the liability and the event payment is not made as hearing required. So I 00:16:17.852 --> 00:16:22.462 - would leave it alone. Don't touch it. Does that create you any consternation? 00:16:24.130 --> 00:16:30.448 - When you say leave it alone, you mean leave it at $100? No, I'm saying leave your ordinance alone and 00:16:30.448 --> 00:16:36.766 - don't say, don't use any more language, different language about making the owner responsible because 00:16:36.766 --> 00:16:43.085 - you already say that and I think that's fine the way it is now. So when we talk to the staff, they're 00:16:43.085 --> 00:16:50.270 - the ones that recommended that we increase the amount because $100 usually doesn't cover it when somebody jumps it. 00:16:50.978 --> 00:16:58.968 - Yeah, so if your average bill is $60, the statute says that it can't be more than an average over three 00:16:58.968 --> 00:17:06.881 - month period. So you could raise it a little bit, but. So you could make it 180. Cut the baby in half. 00:17:06.881 --> 00:17:14.718 - But if we're collecting it from. The one training. Does it matter if it's three months or two months? 00:17:15.010 --> 00:17:21.734 - If we're getting the money anyway. No, she said an average of three months, right? But I'm saying they're 00:17:21.734 --> 00:17:28.331 - getting the money from the ones renting. No, I get it. Yeah, so. So what happens is, well, hang on real 00:17:28.331 --> 00:17:34.928 - quick. We have to apologize. I'm a little weak on where we're getting the 180 from. Is it water answer? 00:17:34.928 --> 00:17:41.398 - That would be three. Three month average would be three months or. Yeah, three months would be right, 00:17:41.398 --> 00:17:44.062 - but she said the average of three months. 00:17:44.418 --> 00:17:51.492 - So if we had a 60, a 70, and an 80, we could only take 70. No. Well, the water bill, we established 00:17:51.492 --> 00:17:58.637 - that on the basis. So this is water in. Our average user uses about 40. It used to be 4,400 or 4,500 00:17:58.637 --> 00:18:05.852 - gallons a month. So we use it based on that. Right. Again, Mike, I'm sorry. I'm probably just lost in 00:18:05.852 --> 00:18:12.997 - the numbers here. We're talking here wanting to increase the sewer deposit, but we can't increase it 00:18:12.997 --> 00:18:14.270 - very much at all. 00:18:14.562 --> 00:18:22.583 - I'm sorry. We can't increase it beyond whatever that average of the three months would be. That's fine. 00:18:22.583 --> 00:18:30.450 - So where's the 180 come in? I apologize. I don't get that. Well, it's currently 100 and a three month 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:38.163 - average sewer bill is a would be $180. No, that's three months total. Yeah, total. So usually there 00:18:38.163 --> 00:18:42.174 - are two or three months in arrears by the time they 00:18:44.002 --> 00:18:51.153 - So it wouldn't be a three-month average, it would be three-month total. Well, it's hardly ever just 00:18:51.153 --> 00:18:58.661 - one month. Sure, no, I get that. But Darla, is the statute a three-month average or a three-month total? 00:18:58.661 --> 00:19:05.954 - The average is what it normally is across the board. I get it, but when we're setting the numbers. So 00:19:05.954 --> 00:19:13.534 - if you set it at times three, you're going to be close to somebody's super bill, whether it's 50, 60, 70, 00:19:13.762 --> 00:19:21.467 - Yeah, I get it guys. I just don't know if the statute allows us to even do that at this point. The deposit 00:19:21.467 --> 00:19:28.956 - may not exceed the estimated average payment due from the property for a three-month period. So it does 00:19:28.956 --> 00:19:36.157 - mean three months at a time. It does. Okay. And what it helps us do is it helps us from chasing the 00:19:36.157 --> 00:19:41.630 - landlord. You're always two months in arrears before you ever get shut off. 00:19:41.922 --> 00:19:50.716 - So it's not been a big hassle, and some people will pay up enough to, and they'll still be not totally 00:19:50.716 --> 00:19:59.340 - paid up, just keep their water on. So it's an ongoing issue for a select few, and this just gives us 00:19:59.340 --> 00:20:08.391 - a little more teeth. And if they do run out, because renters do run out, then the landlord's not bothered 00:20:08.391 --> 00:20:11.806 - with trying to go find their 180 bucks. 00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:22.834 - people that are landlords, it definitely helps our staff. Sometimes it helps me, because I have to get 00:20:22.834 --> 00:20:33.488 - in the middle of it. And so if the appropriate amount of money usually covers the bill, then there's 00:20:33.488 --> 00:20:40.766 - no argument, no heated discussions. So what is it now? It's 100 now. 00:20:41.186 --> 00:20:49.318 - However, the board wants to weigh in on this, I'm good with. So it's not like, truly, I'm glad that 00:20:49.318 --> 00:20:57.450 - you get to decide. This is just for SOAR. So if I'm renting for the first time in Alexville, what's 00:20:57.450 --> 00:21:06.558 - my total deposit with? All in. All in. I don't know. I didn't bring the water deposit. We're assuming it's 300. 00:21:12.418 --> 00:21:19.954 - And talk about water today. And are we letting them pay that over time, or are we making them pay that 00:21:19.954 --> 00:21:27.710 - upfront? Yeah, pay that upfront. When you sign up for water, you have to pay your deposit. OK. Questions, 00:21:27.710 --> 00:21:35.319 - thoughts from council, discussion? I mean, I think it makes sense to take it to the 180. That way these 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:41.246 - guys aren't chasing multiple months at the average is 62, you said, Jeff, about. 00:21:42.050 --> 00:21:51.476 - I mean, that's a no-brainer to me. Noel, do you have any idea? I don't know if your office, OK. 00:21:51.476 --> 00:22:01.295 - It's $50. $50? According to AI. But we do that for three months, so it's $148. It's $150 for water? 00:22:01.295 --> 00:22:11.998 - It's $50 for water. Just $50. Just $50. And don't forget, we are legally allowed to shut their water office. 00:22:12.258 --> 00:22:22.173 - I get it. And so what happens a lot of times they'll pay their water bill, but not their syrup. We can't 00:22:22.173 --> 00:22:31.805 - shut shut them off for this. So the new deposit would be the 50 plus the 180. So 230 to 30 as opposed 00:22:31.805 --> 00:22:33.694 - to 150 down. Right. 00:22:43.522 --> 00:22:55.233 - It may be 85. The newer version is 85, so I'm pretty sure we got that passed. So 85 for water, and right 00:22:55.233 --> 00:23:07.614 - now it's 100 for sewer? It is. And we're wanting to go another 80? It was recommended. One is not thrive work. 00:23:10.434 --> 00:23:21.427 - Again, questions from council, discussion, motions, et cetera. So you say you can get by with 480, 00:23:21.427 --> 00:23:32.530 - raising it? We can get by on whatever is decided. I don't want to, I mean, you know, we try to have 00:23:32.530 --> 00:23:40.414 - a deposit for water and sewer that allows us to recoup monies for the, 00:23:40.546 --> 00:23:52.811 - water company or the sewer company. And it keeps current rate payers from having to pay for delinquency. 00:23:52.811 --> 00:24:04.726 - And it also allows the renters, the landlords, to have some safety net, if you will, for our business 00:24:04.726 --> 00:24:09.982 - of providing water and sewer to individuals. 00:24:10.242 --> 00:24:19.486 - that obviously people that rent homes should pay attention, whether they're paying their water, sewer, 00:24:19.486 --> 00:24:28.910 - gas, power bill and that, they should be paying attention, but we try to make it like good for everybody 00:24:28.910 --> 00:24:38.782 - concerned. I get not overcharging for deposits so people can move in and not have a lot of money tied up, but 00:24:39.362 --> 00:24:47.490 - water and sewers a commodity you need. It's important to have the ability to have it. And it's just 00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:55.700 - been recommended that we increase what we get based on the fact that when we do have delinquency and 00:24:55.700 --> 00:25:03.828 - they just skip town or whatever you want to call it, we're usually left holding the bag. I think we 00:25:03.828 --> 00:25:07.486 - recoup most of the money from our landlords, 00:25:08.034 --> 00:25:16.538 - That is problematic as well. And our staff has to deal with it. Jeff and I have to deal with it. I mean, 00:25:16.538 --> 00:25:24.718 - sometimes, you know, it gets pretty heated. And so these are recommended numbers that allows us most 00:25:24.718 --> 00:25:33.060 - of the time to recoup what we need to recoup and just move on down the road. I got a question for you. 00:25:33.060 --> 00:25:35.166 - If the deposits are made, 00:25:35.490 --> 00:25:43.011 - Does anyone ever have trouble not making that deposit? I mean, do they come to you and say, try to negotiate 00:25:43.011 --> 00:25:49.979 - it down or anything like that, the lower income people or? I can't answer that, but I can't remember 00:25:49.979 --> 00:25:56.879 - anybody ever being referred to me, because usually when they can't resolve it, it goes to either me 00:25:56.879 --> 00:26:03.710 - or Jeff, somebody asking us if we can lower the deposit. And of course, because it's an ordinance, 00:26:05.090 --> 00:26:14.667 - we always, you know, if anybody would ever ask us, we're just like, that's the rules, so. Mike has talked 00:26:14.667 --> 00:26:23.883 - long enough for me to get some good knowledge. Sewer was 50, it went up to 85 January 1st. I'm sorry, 00:26:23.883 --> 00:26:30.750 - water. And our minimum in town bill with sewer and water is 5716 currently. 00:26:30.946 --> 00:26:38.976 - Sean believes that we should at least raise it to a 150 to 175 for sewer, because that's the one we 00:26:38.976 --> 00:26:47.166 - had the most trouble with. It's currently how much sewer? $100. And she recommended 150 to what, 175? 00:26:47.166 --> 00:26:55.356 - Yeah. So if you have $100 sewer, I'm sorry, $100 water, I'm sorry, $85 water deposit, and 150 here at 00:26:55.356 --> 00:27:00.254 - 235. And I'd say in most cases, we'd be in good shape there. 00:27:00.802 --> 00:27:08.960 - with the minimum being $51.70. That's minimum, not average. Well, I have a quick question. Mr. Fisher, 00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:17.038 - can I ask a question real quick? Do you mind stepping up? Didn't know you were going to be put on the 00:27:17.038 --> 00:27:24.958 - spot, didn't you? You had your shot, didn't you? So are you guys paying the water and sewer, or are 00:27:24.958 --> 00:27:28.126 - the residents? So it's coming straight? 00:27:28.226 --> 00:27:36.901 - Okay, that was my question. We don't pay cell phone and cable hookup. Okay, thank you for that. And 00:27:36.901 --> 00:27:46.183 - we pay the hookup fee when we build the building. Sure. Again, up to council for motions, recommendations, 00:27:46.183 --> 00:27:54.858 - discussion, all of the above. If not, I'm gonna move to public comment. We'll come back to council. 00:27:54.858 --> 00:27:56.766 - Okay, move to public. 00:27:57.698 --> 00:28:07.652 - Anyone online or in chambers? Hi, Valerie Dwarf from Ellisville, First Union Methodist Church. We're 00:28:07.652 --> 00:28:17.606 - a landlord, so I have a question. When I heard that this, if the landlord is going to be, if you cut 00:28:17.606 --> 00:28:22.238 - them off at three months, but they still rent, 00:28:23.874 --> 00:28:30.939 - This landlord, are we only talking about when the renter leaves and a new renter comes in, or are you 00:28:30.939 --> 00:28:38.005 - talking about a renter who stays? If you have a renter who's three months behind, then do you come to 00:28:38.005 --> 00:28:45.139 - the landlord for the bill and the renter still stays in? I don't believe we do. I think when somebody, 00:28:45.139 --> 00:28:50.750 - and it happens where they'll go in arrears with their sewer but pay their water. 00:28:53.314 --> 00:29:01.142 - So what do we do if somebody just doesn't ever pay the sewer bill? Well, we take care of other entities 00:29:01.142 --> 00:29:08.669 - where we have to file liens on them if they own the house. But if they rent, they just skip. And so 00:29:08.669 --> 00:29:16.422 - they actually skip and move to another house within our jurisdiction or in our water and sewer system. 00:29:16.422 --> 00:29:22.142 - And they'll apply for a new hookup. Sure. And so I mean, it's a small town. 00:29:22.338 --> 00:29:28.013 - We know people move on us and then skip the bill. But as she said, so they're renting and someone just 00:29:28.013 --> 00:29:33.523 - doesn't pay the sewer bill and they're six, eight, nine months a year out. We can't evict them. Are 00:29:33.523 --> 00:29:39.088 - we going back on them? We can't evict them and we can't shut them off. Right. And the landlord's not 00:29:39.088 --> 00:29:44.764 - responsible? No, the landlord is responsible. They are responsible. OK, we become responsible at three 00:29:44.764 --> 00:29:50.604 - months. That's correct. All right. If that's the case. At three months or a month? You're not responsible 00:29:50.604 --> 00:29:51.486 - for any unpaid. 00:29:52.098 --> 00:30:00.861 - So it could be a month. Okay, it could be a month. It could be a month. I mean, you know, probably what 00:30:00.861 --> 00:30:09.371 - you're going to is why don't you call the landlord when this becomes a problem, right? Which I think 00:30:09.371 --> 00:30:17.798 - we do. But it doesn't resolve itself or we wouldn't be here talking about it. Obviously. But what I 00:30:17.798 --> 00:30:19.230 - was thinking is, 00:30:19.490 --> 00:30:29.586 - then we as landlords have deposits as well to protect ourself. So we actually, there's money sitting 00:30:29.586 --> 00:30:40.382 - in two pots, your pot and our pot, to cover and protect. Because I'm sympathetic to the renter and somewhat 00:30:40.382 --> 00:30:49.278 - because it costs so much to become a renter. By the time you do first, last and deposit, 00:30:49.858 --> 00:30:57.078 - and then utilities, but I just wanted to make sure that if we're going to be responsible, we have to 00:30:57.078 --> 00:31:04.583 - cover ourselves with our deposits as well. Yeah, and just to be clear, so the numbers I was using before 00:31:04.583 --> 00:31:11.946 - is numbers I asked for, not unlike what Jeff did, and so they were different numbers at that time, and 00:31:11.946 --> 00:31:19.166 - I can't explain it, so I apologize for that. I just thought we were only responsible once the renter 00:31:20.418 --> 00:31:28.031 - and leaves a bad debt behind. So I'm concerned for them. No, I mean, we know the first month, you know, 00:31:28.031 --> 00:31:35.498 - after the third month, we know we're not probably gonna get paid and they're probably on their way to 00:31:35.498 --> 00:31:43.112 - moving. I mean, so, you know, a lot of times they won't have an average bill and the water usage, which 00:31:43.112 --> 00:31:47.870 - dictates a sewer bill, will be even larger, so. Okay, thank you. 00:31:55.714 --> 00:32:04.336 - Anyone else? All right, question. Are we talking about sewer? Are you talking about somebody that doesn't 00:32:04.336 --> 00:32:12.796 - have city water and just a sewer bill? No. Are you talking about anybody? I'm saying they come in, they 00:32:12.796 --> 00:32:20.930 - get water and sewer from us, or water and sewer, and it's Eastern Richland. So we have to help them 00:32:20.930 --> 00:32:25.566 - with this dilemma as well. And so you cannot, you cannot 00:32:26.114 --> 00:32:33.411 - go after, you cannot shut off a water sewer service because they didn't pay their sewer. You can only 00:32:33.411 --> 00:32:40.566 - shut them off, probably shouldn't be talking about this, you can only shut them off when they don't 00:32:40.566 --> 00:32:47.720 - pay their water bill. But I was understanding if I'm paying water bill and sewer, it's one bill. So 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:54.302 - when I come in, if I don't pay them both, you don't get anything. Unless I'm just on sewer. 00:32:54.434 --> 00:33:00.244 - Then if you're just on sewer and you pay your water bill only, then you're going to be delinquent to 00:33:00.244 --> 00:33:06.111 - Eastern Richland. Wow. If you do, why do you let that happen? If I got water and sewer with you, when 00:33:06.111 --> 00:33:12.093 - I pay that bill every month, I pay both bills. I don't get a choice of paying just water or just syrup. 00:33:12.093 --> 00:33:17.960 - Well, that's true. I guess I'm misunderstanding this. You react like it's separate. I can come in and 00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:20.318 - pay my water bill, but not pay my sewer. 00:33:21.026 --> 00:33:27.242 - Some people have a $75 bill for water and sewer, and they only have $50, and they'll come in and pay 00:33:27.242 --> 00:33:33.826 - the $50, and it comes off their bill until the next billing cycle. And once you get two months in arrears, 00:33:33.826 --> 00:33:40.288 - and you're still on arrears, then we're going to shut you off until you come in and pay your full. Well, 00:33:40.288 --> 00:33:46.381 - I'm the same way I'm sitting here is I can come in and pay my $20 water bill if that's what it is, 00:33:46.381 --> 00:33:49.950 - or $40. I have money for service, so I walk out the door. 00:33:50.434 --> 00:33:55.497 - Well, I've still got water, but I'm still dumping sewer down the line. In other words, to me, you shut 00:33:55.497 --> 00:34:00.511 - it off the same time. You don't pay the water, you don't get sewer. Even though it's sewer, you can't 00:34:00.511 --> 00:34:05.673 - get it off. It's two bills. When you get your water, it's a water sewer bill. And there's a fire hydrant 00:34:05.673 --> 00:34:10.736 - fee, and there's a storm fee on it, too. So if you don't pay for the water that runs down your veteran 00:34:10.736 --> 00:34:15.750 - down the street, we can't do anything about it. So what you're saying is you're taking the water bill 00:34:15.750 --> 00:34:18.110 - off the top, essentially, from whatever's paid? 00:34:18.306 --> 00:34:27.557 - I think what you're saying to the public, it's a water bill. This is utility bill. Yeah. Well, 00:34:27.557 --> 00:34:37.490 - I get that. To the public, they're paying the water bill. That's what they call it. Most people won't 00:34:37.490 --> 00:34:42.846 - say. That's correct. They do. I get what it really is. 00:34:43.234 --> 00:34:49.852 - because there's different lines in there for different costs, but. And we're trying to cover three months 00:34:49.852 --> 00:34:56.220 - of that utility. Right. And so if you take the 150 and the 85, you're getting real close to what Mike 00:34:56.220 --> 00:35:02.775 - thinks it should be. And I'm fine with what, you know, I'm on that. So I'm the guy, and we're the people 00:35:02.775 --> 00:35:09.081 - that have to chase the non-payers in not just this system, but other systems that we've managed. And 00:35:09.081 --> 00:35:12.702 - it's a pain to have to chase it. And we're trying to put, 00:35:13.282 --> 00:35:22.252 - A little bit up front. I think that she was talking about renters. They probably have to pay them one 00:35:22.252 --> 00:35:31.134 - month, the first month, and the last month's rent. And you're right, it's probably a couple thousand 00:35:31.134 --> 00:35:39.928 - dollars at least in most cases. So now you're adding another $100 to that or $280 to that. But it's 00:35:39.928 --> 00:35:42.654 - the world we're living in. OK. 00:35:44.098 --> 00:35:52.713 - So we've had a lot of discussion. I don't know we've gotten very far or not to your guys discredit kind 00:35:52.713 --> 00:36:00.996 - of hours. What's the council's pleasure? So according to Jeff, if we lower it, it's not too far off 00:36:00.996 --> 00:36:09.279 - though from what Mike was, right? The 250. That's correct. No, I think you should. So it's like $20 00:36:09.279 --> 00:36:13.918 - maybe. Staff's recommendation was 150 to 175 for sewer. 00:36:14.018 --> 00:36:21.611 - and we're currently at 85 for water. We're not asking to raise the water deposit. It just raised $35. 00:36:21.611 --> 00:36:29.204 - So we think we're pretty close there. If it's close to it, Scott, then should we just go with the 250 00:36:29.204 --> 00:36:37.317 - according to Janice? Make a motion. Well, can we legally go 250? No. No. It's got to be seven. Two different 00:36:37.317 --> 00:36:43.198 - numbers. Right. So I think you need to be close between the 150 number, right? 00:36:43.426 --> 00:36:52.784 - I think so. Okay. We're just talking about the sewer deposit and we think it should go from 100 to 150. 00:36:52.784 --> 00:37:01.782 - To be fair, I think some people raise some legitimate concerns and I think that's the middle of the 00:37:01.782 --> 00:37:08.350 - road that will work for us. So you know Catherine at 50 and that's okay. 00:37:10.690 --> 00:37:20.872 - Okay, so what's the motion? I'm sorry, I got lost in the minutiae here. Okay, I'll patiently wait over 00:37:20.872 --> 00:37:30.758 - here for that. Okay, I make a motion for Ordinance 2026-02, amending the Surrey Department fee from 00:37:30.758 --> 00:37:40.446 - $100 to $150. Second. Motion and second. When you're ready. Scott Oldham? Yes. Dan Swafford? Yes. 00:37:40.674 --> 00:37:51.581 - William Ellis? No. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pamela Samples? Yes. Motion passes. If I could add that originally 00:37:51.581 --> 00:38:02.487 - this was an item that went along with all the other charges, rates and charges that we use for the water 00:38:02.487 --> 00:38:09.758 - and sewer utility. So it was not one item that we picked on to try to 00:38:09.954 --> 00:38:17.633 - change it, we updated all of our costs associated with running the utilities in the last two years, 00:38:17.633 --> 00:38:25.619 - and these rates and charges, this is one item out of many, so. Okay. So we're finished with this topic? 00:38:25.619 --> 00:38:33.835 - Yes? Okay. Next item on the agenda, I believe we're probably gonna wind up having the table, is appointing 00:38:33.835 --> 00:38:36.446 - redevelopment commission members. 00:38:37.634 --> 00:38:43.576 - Is there anyone who has suggestions in or anyone who's been interested in this? Thought I had someone 00:38:43.576 --> 00:38:49.401 - at the redevelopment commission, but she lives out of out of town. The board needs to reappoint the 00:38:49.401 --> 00:38:55.517 - four current members if you would, and then you still have an empty seat that was vacated by Tom Corbin. 00:38:55.517 --> 00:39:01.459 - All right, do we need to do that by name or can we do that? I think you can do it with the motion and 00:39:01.459 --> 00:39:05.886 - naming all four Andrew Henry, Trevor Sager, Carl Thurman and William Ellis. 00:39:08.386 --> 00:39:17.422 - and if you would back date the terms to January 1st, 2026. So we stay on a schedule. Is there a motion? 00:39:17.422 --> 00:39:26.198 - Make a motion to re-appoint the following members retroactive January 1st, 2026 to the redevelopment 00:39:26.198 --> 00:39:34.539 - commission. Andrew Henry, Carl Thurman, William Ellis, and Trevor Sager. Second. Motion second. 00:39:34.539 --> 00:39:36.190 - Roll call, please. 00:39:36.354 --> 00:39:45.328 - Dan Swaffer? Yes. William Ellis? Yes. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pamela Samples? Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. 00:39:45.328 --> 00:39:54.215 - Now we move to privilege of the floor, anyone having business for the council that was not part of our 00:39:54.215 --> 00:40:03.620 - normal agenda this evening. Again, from Delft Subversion, I'm Methodist. Want to thank the street department 00:40:03.620 --> 00:40:05.950 - for, we have a road in our 00:40:06.690 --> 00:40:14.724 - between our two pieces of property. And sometimes we forget that it's town and town might not even remember 00:40:14.724 --> 00:40:22.164 - it's theirs. But I want to thank them for their speedy plowing of that road for a church event that 00:40:22.164 --> 00:40:30.124 - we had coming up. It's just another example of the fine job our street department does and did a wonderful 00:40:30.124 --> 00:40:33.918 - job with the snow in our town, I think, this year. 00:40:35.138 --> 00:40:44.856 - Switching gears, I serve on the board for the Greater Chamber of Ellitsville and we want to say that 00:40:44.856 --> 00:40:54.477 - we saw a marvelous work from our town council being very sensitive to forward thinking for our town 00:40:54.477 --> 00:41:02.078 - and very cautious at what that would do to any monies or any efforts of people 00:41:02.178 --> 00:41:12.760 - And so we thank you for that and we look forward to an exciting 2026 working with the council. Anyone 00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:23.135 - else online or in changes? Seeing none, we'll move now to department. Well, I mentioned that on the 00:41:23.135 --> 00:41:30.398 - 18th we'll have another reorganization meeting at 6 o'clock. It will. 00:41:31.170 --> 00:41:41.082 - in at 650 due to the fire territory hearing at seven o'clock in the same building and same room. Just 00:41:41.082 --> 00:41:50.799 - like to let everybody know about that. There should be things on the website and some of our social 00:41:50.799 --> 00:41:59.934 - media that explains what we're doing. Most of the registered voters by now should have got it 00:42:01.410 --> 00:42:11.676 - postcard, if you will, explaining what we are doing with the reorganization. It's worth looking into. 00:42:11.676 --> 00:42:21.941 - We need community input. And so I just thought I'd mention the two meetings on the 18th. Good time to 00:42:21.941 --> 00:42:27.678 - get two for one. Thank you. Chief? No, thank you. Chief? 00:42:31.298 --> 00:42:39.379 - Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, this last Wednesday, we had a swearing-in ceremony for our new canine, Frank. And 00:42:39.379 --> 00:42:47.382 - you can see Levi Minick has him there on the lease. And he's got his new vest on. And he's a sniffer 00:42:47.382 --> 00:42:55.384 - for electronic gear in the wall. So he does very well with that. He's put on kind of a demonstration 00:42:55.384 --> 00:42:56.414 - for us here. 00:42:56.930 --> 00:43:06.271 - that afternoon, and Mike got to be real friendly with the dog. He liked him very well, so. Is he a good 00:43:06.271 --> 00:43:15.073 - boy? He's both of a good boy. Okay. And he's pretty smart, too, because he asked about his 401K9. 00:43:15.073 --> 00:43:24.415 - Which one? I don't know. That was good. Take care right now. I'm sorry. Well, thank you. Johnny Carson, 00:43:24.415 --> 00:43:26.750 - you were not, sir. Chief? 00:43:27.010 --> 00:43:34.412 - planning. I just wanted to let everybody know that the planning and zoning subcommittee will have a 00:43:34.412 --> 00:43:42.037 - public meeting here in town hall on February 17th at six o'clock. I'll be happy to get their input for 00:43:42.037 --> 00:43:49.514 - our objectives and I just wanted to say I offered to babysit the new K-9 Frank anytime he needed it. 00:43:49.514 --> 00:43:50.846 - He's a doll baby. 00:43:54.242 --> 00:44:01.559 - I just wanted to let the town council know that we had the entrance interview for my state board of 00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:09.022 - accounts audit they are currently auditing auditing years 2022 2023 and 2024. It should be completed. 00:44:09.250 --> 00:44:15.824 - towards the end of February, beginning of March. And I'm also currently working on the annual financial 00:44:15.824 --> 00:44:22.398 - report that will be available for review. I have to have it submitted February 28th. My goal is to have 00:44:22.398 --> 00:44:28.782 - it to the town manager and the council. I'm really hoping by the 23rd of February, but there's a lot 00:44:28.782 --> 00:44:35.166 - of timelines. So I'm working with Baker Tilley and the town administrator to get all those compiled. 00:44:36.642 --> 00:44:44.280 - And just a little bit for the public. This is routine in annual. This has no malfeasance attached to 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:51.994 - it. This is State Board of Accounts doing their due diligence as they're supposed to do. So something 00:44:51.994 --> 00:44:59.557 - happens every year. Anyone else? Now move to council comments. Somebody refreshes the memory on the 00:44:59.557 --> 00:45:04.926 - fire territory meetings. The dates. Yeah, give me just a minute. Sure. 00:45:06.082 --> 00:45:26.913 - There's only 11th. Was there not one on the 11th? March. Okay. What do you mean by this? Surely they 00:45:26.913 --> 00:45:32.894 - didn't change. Well, I know. 00:45:34.850 --> 00:45:42.636 - March 11th is one, wasn't it? So it's February 18th, 25th at 7 o'clock here at the Town Hall. 00:45:42.636 --> 00:45:51.167 - Thank you. And March 11th and 25th at 7 p.m. at Town Hall. Look at the IT Wizard here. Thank you, Dan. 00:45:51.167 --> 00:45:57.214 - You're welcome. Anyone else? Anything? All right, we'll stand adjourned.