- Calling the Electoral Town Council meeting for July 14th to order. Marshall, do you have a prayer? I
- have my father. Again, we come before you and ask you to bless this little town, bless the employees,
- keep them safe. We ask you to bless the board members tonight as they make the decision that affects
- us. We ask these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United
- States of America.
- and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
- for all. Okay, roll call please. Scott Obram, Dan Swofford, William Ellis. Here. Trevor Sager. Here.
- Pamela Samples. Here. Okay, have the approval of minutes.
- 6, 22, 26. Any changes or council comments? Make a motion to approve the minutes from 6, 22, 2026. Second.
- All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Or extension to none? Passes. Action to pay accounts, payable
- vouchers and payroll vouchers. So moved. Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
- Any abstentions? Seeing none. First resolution, we got resolution, actually, I'm gonna pause and let
- the town council presidents, okay, I'll go on. All right. Resolution 12-2026 of the Ellsville Town Council,
- approving the annexation of territory located at 5326 West Woodyard Road and 5328 West Woodyard Road.
- Is that you, Denise, or who has that? Okay. At the Ellsville Planning Commission,
- Last Thursday, the plan commission voted unanimously to send the annexation of what we're calling the
- rary property to the town council with a recommendation that the annexation be approved. Because there's
- a reorganization in progress under the Indiana Code, as I'm interpreting it, the annexation cannot take
- place unless the reorganizing entities both pass a resolution
- approving the annexation of territory. So that is step one here tonight. A similar resolution has been
- prepared and sent to the Richland Township Board, and if the board approves it, it will come back hopefully
- at the next town council meeting, the second meeting in July, for approval of the annexation ordinance
- and the fiscal plan. So what are we doing with it tonight?
- Okay, questions from Council? Just if the petitioner, if they're here, if they want to speak to it or
- not, that's all. Mr. Eyre, anything? If you have any questions. Seeing no questions, back to the Council
- for action. I'll move to approve ordinance, yeah.
- How do we word the starlet to approve it, to send it, or just approve it? Approve resolution 1226. Okay,
- move to approve resolution 1226, the Aliceville Town Council approving the annexation of territory located
- 5326 Westwood Yard Road and 5328 Westwood Yard Road. Second. Motion second, protocol please. Scott Oldham?
- Yes. William Ellis? Yes. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pamela Samples? Yes. Motion carried.
- Tonight, there are two ordinances on first reading, the first of which is Ordinance 26-10, an ordinance
- to amend Chapter 73, Schedule 2 of the Elstville Town Code, to add additional stop intersections. I
- asked R to put this ordinance together. The new harm and harm subdivision actually intersects with
- South Ridge Springs Lane and North Sycamore Drive. At the present moment, North Wallace Harmon Way is
- still a private road. It does have a stop sign at it for the construction and what public is already
- either living there or going in and out. And I'm requesting to make that whole center intersection,
- even though that side's not brought in yet, I guess you could say,
- an all-way stop is what they call it nowadays not three-way and make it more safe for the school upcoming
- school year so and I'm gonna I'm gonna put advanced signs in advance for stops so people can pay attention
- to that okay questions council okay it's an order it's on first reading so it'd be coming back to us
- for a second reading next time the next ordinance this evening is 26th
- 2026-11, the wholesale water cost tracker orders to change the water rates by the Eldsville Municipal
- Water Utility. So you probably read in the newspaper the City of Bloomington Utilities has successfully
- petitioned the IURC for a rate increase and because the town buys its water from the City of Bloomington,
- that unfortunately means that the town needs to raise its rates and it has contracted with Baker Tilly
- to file a petition with the IURC
- to request a tracker, which is 99 cents per thousand gallons, and that is further down on the agenda.
- If the town council approves that petition, then the town will petition the IURC for a tracker. And
- what is immediately before the council is a proposed ordinance that will hopefully come back for public
- hearing at the second meeting in July for passage of the water tracker ordinance.
- So I know 99 cents per thousand gallons doesn't sound like much, but last year the town purchased, the
- cost to the town to purchase water from the City of Bloomington Utilities was just over a million dollars,
- and with the new CBU rates, the cost will now be $1,353,000 and some change. So it's not an insubstantial
- increase, but I just want to make it clear that the town is not actually raising
- its rates for any other reason other than the tracker. Two years ago, the town did hire Baker-Tilley
- to prepare a report. It raised its rates in two phases. Phase two went into effect of April last year,
- and those charges remain in effect. But the whole point of this ordinance is just to add to those rates,
- if that makes sense, for the water tracker. This is just because our baseline rate went up, so everything
- else has to go up?
- we're not taking any extra money from this. Correct. All right. You're just covering the cost to purchase
- it from city of Bloomington. Otherwise we'd be losing based on last year about three hundred K. Right.
- Are there questions on this even though it's on first reading or Mike's reading you or Jeff won't explain.
- I think you said maintain the rates that we established in twenty twenty four so we can do the work
- that was projected and maintain our own M
- Expenses and without without providing us this tracker Are you know we can lose twenty five thirty thousand
- dollars a month? Yeah, it's not like we're making a profit on this guys. No. No, it's it's penny for
- penny. Yeah, okay All right. Well that will again come back to us on their next meeting because this
- is an ordinance on first reading There are no ordinances on second reading this evening There is no
- old business under new businesses again the town of belts for water tracking factor to the increase
- from city of Wilmington
- Is there anything further to add? Nothing other than I ask that the town council approve the petition
- to be filed with the IURC. Okay, questions from council? Anybody from the public want to speak to that?
- And back to council for action. Make a motion to approve the petition to the IURC for the water tracking factor.
- Do the increase from the city of Bloomington motion second. Yes. William Ellis. Yes. Trevor Sager. Yes.
- Pamela samples. Yes. Motion. There is no other new business and I want the privilege of the Florida
- and having business for the council not part of our normal agenda.
- Hello, can you hear me? Good to go. My name's Tom Orman, and I'm here to talk about a UTV ordinance.
- Me and these two gentlemen behind me were the reasons we got one passed in Monroe County. We worked
- with the Department of Transportation. We worked very closely with Mike Braun's office. We worked with
- Jeff Cockrell, and we worked with the commissioners. Every county around us has UTV ordinances, and
- Ellitsville is one to expand its limits.
- My particular, where I live, I worked hard to get this ordinance. This right would be taken away from
- me. So 88 counties of the 92 in the state of Indiana have UTV ordinances. And they're safe. They've
- got roll cages. They've got seat belts. My particular unit, you can't drive over 15 miles an hour unless
- you have a seat belt or it's reduced speed. I understand Highway 46 is not the place for these.
- motorcycle versus UTV. If I'm driving down McNeely Road, 35 miles an hour and a deer hits me, I'm on
- a motorcycle. With a helmet or without a helmet? It's probably not going to be good. But if I'm in my
- UTV that has a metal bar, roll cage, and seat belts, the outcome's going to be a lot different. A lot
- of people want to talk about safety, so we'll talk about safety. I was driving down Union Valley Road
- last week, bicycle. At one point, I was going six miles an hour.
- That's dangerous. These things aren't. They have registrations, they have insurance, you have to have
- proof of all that. I just don't want to see with this reorganization a lot of people not want to come
- to this community that have the rights out in Monroe County at this time. We're a wealth of information.
- We've done a lot of homework on these things. So we would work with the council if they would choose
- that they would want to do that. Let's see.
- I guess that's it. I just, this is going to affect me. I am pro-Wellitsville. I am next in Smith bike
- crossing down here, we're urban areas and that strip mall because of Monroe County standards. I don't
- want things taken away from us that we worked hard to get. So I think it'd be very beneficial if you
- guys take a hard look at this.
- Make sure you sign in and give us your name, please. All right, thanks for letting me come up here and
- speak and kind of give you guys a little bit more insight of how hard it was for us to get the work
- that's done in Merrill County.
- I worked diligently with the commissioners, the attorneys, all local authorities, Department
- of Transportation, also working with Mike Braun's office. Worked with a lot of other individuals that
- was involved in seven or nine different counties to get the ordinances passed. I myself, I've been involved
- in UTV since 2009.
- So not only do I have a shop that I work on them, I install turn signal kits, all kinds of safety devices,
- harnesses, hand controls for the handicap. So pretty much, I think a lot of people aren't aware of how
- they have evolved in the last 20 years as far as safety. Believe it or not, it's one of the only vehicles
- that's allowed on our roadways through the Department of Transportation that actually has a ROPS program
- in place. And that's mandated by the federal government, and it's a rollover protection system. Your
- daily car doesn't have that. As Tom was stating, there's a lot of other safety factors played into it.
- They've increased the size of these machines. They're not really small anymore.
- greatly changed and a lot of abilities and stability and things that everybody was always against in
- the past and I think the main thing is we all have to evolve as you guys all know as county council
- members you have to evolve as times change and as things change we all have to accept it and I think
- that was the one reason we did get it past Monroe County through the commissioner's office was because
- They took an interest in it. A couple of the council members actually went and rode in them. And they
- were really surprised. And I think that that was the overwhelming support that we got from them, that
- the safety is there. There's obviously things that we agree with and things we don't agree with. Some
- of the other machines and ATVs and golf carts and so on and so forth, we can't.
- I can't say good or bad towards them because I'm not here to adjudicate for them. I'm here for just
- the UTV use and my knowledge and the safety that I think that they can provide. And it gives the taxpayers
- and the people the opportunity to enjoy our great area that we live in. Right. I mean we live in one
- of the most beautiful places there are. And I go all over the country to these
- different states and I ride in these ride parks. I mean, West Virginia, they allow you to go down the
- interstate. Tennessee, you can drive anywhere you want. They actually recommend you to do it. And it's
- the revenue that's generated from the UTVs in several states is what funds a lot of the help for the DNR
- And like the TWRA in Tennessee, I mean, they generate millions of dollars a year from this. And I'm
- currently working with Mike Braun's office and have been for a while, hopefully to expand Indiana and
- get us on board with a lot of these surrounding states that generate a lot of revenue. And it will open
- the doors for a lot of
- revenue for us, I think, here. But our main thing is it is safety. And I'm a firm believer in that.
- And I think the turn signals and the ordinance that they put into place is a pretty good fit. And I
- appreciate you guys' time. Let me explain it to you. If you have any more questions, you're more than
- able to get a hold of me at any time. I can give you any more additional information you might need.
- and hopefully we can get an ordinance done. Sure. Are you asking for a similar ordinance as what Monroe
- County? I think so. I think Monroe County put together a good ordinance. We worked with Jeff Cockerill,
- the county attorney. They were very open to it, and the dialogue was good. We worked with each other,
- and we found a pretty good fit. Obviously, Monroe County's a little more stern than a lot.
- So that's one of the issues that I think the state house is kind of wondering about because our ordinances
- here are stricter than the surrounding counties around us. Is that going to cause a problem for people
- that actually cross the county line and come over here if they don't have, you know what I mean? So
- I think it's a pretty good ordinance. I think it's a little more stern than what a lot of them I see.
- I do not know. I don't think so, but I can check on that for you. Just to answer your question, they
- do require any side-by-side to be registered at the date of the purchase. Now, they just started that
- recently, a couple years ago. So the state is receiving money for the registrations. That's not my question at all.
- It's more of the wheel tax thing. If we could get some clarification on that. Sure. Thanks. Yeah. And
- I think I did. I did talk to the governor's office about that. That's whenever I reached out and I've
- got with the Indian Department of Transportation. Yep. So whenever you maybe do some digging into that,
- you'll find out that only the Indiana Department of Transportation, NDOT, is the ones that puts that
- guideline.
- So for the wheel tags and so on and so forth, that's like, when I started this two years ago, it took
- me two years and 19 days to get that ordinance passed. When I did start that, it was a lot of research
- and going back and forth and I was always told, show me it's not where it is illegal to write these
- because they've evolved.
- So there was never an ordinance even in Monroe County. You couldn't operate one of these vehicles because
- it was based on the old ordinance. So that was the hardest part because we couldn't amend an ordinance
- that didn't exist. And so that was the main question with the tax and the stuff that I brought up with
- the Department of Transportation. So we may just have to update our ordinance.
- Yeah, that was an important question. And also, we have most all UTV ordinances of the 88 counties,
- if that's helpful. The 88 of the 92 counties in the state of Indiana do does have an ordinance. So that
- was a very important question. Why is the state of Indiana? Why officer pulls you over? Let me see your
- registration proof insurance. Why? It's illegal. Why even asking for that? That's that's an important question.
- Right? Because they are. They are a registered vehicle through the state of Indiana. All right.
- Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to talk a little bit about
- how they are really beneficial to a lot of municipalities. Bloomington's got them. They use them all
- over downtown to navigate around in and out tight spots. IU uses them like crazy on campus because you
- can't take a full-size truck and go park it downtown at some of these little big parking spots. They
- use them for a lot of snow removal in the winter because
- You can loop in and out and get in and out of a little tight spot that you can't get a big four-wheel
- drive truck turned around in. I've used mine a lot for a lot of storms. I mean, you guys know, they
- say the tornado alley, everything's shifting. We've seen to get a lot more storms here lately.
- Cleaning up, helping to get people. The fire departments, they have them. They use them like crazy whenever
- they need to, whenever you can't get them where a truck goes. They're a lighter footprint.
- You know, if a tree's down and you've got to go around to get somebody to help them, you're not going
- to tear the tar out of somebody's yard. You're not going to get stuck. You're not going to run it up.
- You can navigate around and get to somebody. We've used them in a lot of scenarios like that, mainly
- for the storms and snow removal is a big thing. I mean, the one I've got is about the size, really close
- to a Ford Ranger, just a hair bit smaller.
- And I can push an eight foot blade as good as my one ton full drive. But I can get in and out of a driveway.
- I don't tear your driveway up. I don't tear your landscaping up whenever I drive over or just barely
- get off the edge because you get six inches of snow and it's hard to tell where stuff is. I mean, I
- use them for work all the time and I love them. And my biggest fear is if you guys do get the annexation
- done, which I think would be great,
- that would just really cut down on what we could do and where we could do it. And that would be one
- of my biggest concerns. Because I've got property that that annexation will include. So therefore I
- wouldn't be allowed to drive it to or from that property at that point in time. So that's just some
- of the ways that we use them, that it benefits us, lighter footprint, get in and out without tearing
- stuff up. And they're really beneficial for
- a lot of small businesses doing stuff around here, and even the municipalities, I could see where they
- could really benefit from it. And I agree with Tom, 46, absolutely not, not the place for it. But if
- I live on the west side of Monroe County, and I want to go north to Morgan County, I've either got to
- go to County Line, or I've got to go dang near around the south side of Bloomington to go out to come
- back up the north side to get to Martinsville. Because between Bloomington and this,
- hardly know where I can get through other than going all the way out to the county line. So I think
- that I'd really like to see Bloomington adopt the ordinance or put a place in a very similar ordinance
- to what they have. You know, even if there's some areas you want to restrict or some roads that you
- want to, you know, say it's okay and say it's not okay. I just like voice my opinion and appreciate
- your guys' time. All right. Thank you, sir.
- Any questions or comments? Well, I would just say that under no circumstances do I want to be more restricted
- than the county, so I'm very supportive of some type of ordinance. We've not seen one yet, but I can
- tell you no matter what we do, it's not going to take two and a half years. Ellisville doesn't drag
- their feet on common sense stuff. Thank you. Is this the open discussion part of this? Yeah, go ahead.
- I guess one thing that I'm concerned about is I'm seeing on Facebook and hearing a lot of things about
- ORVs, UTVs, heading to their favorite ice cream shop on State Road 46. Like these gentlemen just said,
- it's state law that you can't have it out on state highways. So I guess that's my biggest concern. State
- Road 46 is such a major vein within our community that
- We're gonna have some issues out there. Yeah, they're gonna be ticketed toed. Yeah, and the question
- is crossing over 46, because you're technically on 46. So if you have a crash at Union Valley, no, no,
- we're kind of done for a minute, okay? My problem is how we get you across the roadways, because if
- you get an intersection, you're on 46, and you're not allowed to be on 46. So that's, I think an ordinance
- is appropriate,
- just how we structure it to make sure that we're watching the second, third, fourth order effects.
- And that's, I think, the bigger issue than if we need an ordinance or not. It's how do you structure
- it so that it's useful as opposed to people go, oh, well, they've got an ordinance. I can cross 46.
- I can go to Jiffy Tree. Nope, you can't. That's not our doing. And what I don't want to get is someone
- inadvertently caught
- in a legal problem because they've crossed 46 and got an accident at the intersection, that is State
- Road 46. You may not have it there according to state law. So who does that make automatically at fault?
- You can't be there. And I do know, and this is something I'm going to interrupt you, I do know in the
- Indiana State guide line, you can cross any state highway in the state of Indiana at a 90 degree angle.
- Well, again,
- The guidelines are not necessarily a law at this point. Now, again, there's some questions as to whether
- or not it's interpreted as the law. But I don't think that where I'm going is I don't think it's our
- purview to regulate that. What I think is I don't want to open it up to everybody assumes because Ellsfield
- did it, everything is now in play. That's a problem for whoever. But what I don't want to do is give
- people this false sense of, yeah, go wherever you want. That's a problem.
- Under D, it says a recreation vehicle, UTV may cross a prohibited roadway at a right angle when the
- operation can be done safely. So it's kind of. Yeah, it's kind of nevertheless, can be done safely.
- Again, I think we entertained something, guys. I don't know exactly how it's worded, and I want to make
- sure that we take second, third, fourth order effects involved here. Yeah, we're going to, I'd like,
- I mean, I would like
- a couple of meetings with some department heads before we shape this. I mean, I think about the point
- is, OK, bikes are allowed in certain areas. They're not necessarily allowed in 46, so what happens?
- What I don't want to see is a vehicle that only is capable of running 15 miles an hour now clogging
- up a street where it's 30, 35, 40 miles an hour. On the other hand, some of these vehicles are capable
- of well in excess of 60, 70, 80 miles an hour. And a lot of them are running without any type of tag
- or anything else on it.
- I think we're open to it, is what I'm trying to say. I just think we don't want to rush into something
- that we regret doing, safety-wise, because our citizens are our biggest concern, right? So it's going
- to take a few conversations with some of these folks sitting up here to bring you the best version of
- the ordinance we can. We do appreciate that. And that's what I did, working with the Highway Department.
- I worked diligently with the Highway Department and the Traffic Division.
- And in doing so, we came up with those disputes and where we come to an agreement, and it was that very
- same thing you just expressed. So basically, we're not advocating for the golf carts, the four-wheelers.
- That's a totally different scenario. And in our ordinance that we got done at General County,
- I'm sure we can get you guys coffee for sure. Okay. But it does have to, you'd have to be able to exceed
- 35 mile an hour. The vehicle has to exceed it. So there's a width requirement. And if you read through
- there, it's pretty, I mean, I'll just be blunt. There's some things on here that aren't enforceable.
- You know, it has to have no more than, can't be more than 2,500 pounds. No one's going to come out there
- and weigh you.
- You know, has to be able to go 35 miles an hour. No one's going to set up a radar station to make sure
- you can go 36. You know, again, so it's nice to have on paper, but that's that second, third, fourth
- order effect I'm talking about is that if people hear this without the proper preparation and the proper
- notice, they're going to think, well, I've got a golf cart and I'm going to go, no, that's not what
- this is about at all. So there's got to have to be a lot of care and caution as to how we craft this.
- And again, I'm not trying to throw any type of criticism at the county or not. They did what they did
- for a reason. But the practicality of that reason, really, I don't see putting anybody on the side of
- the road and weighing the thing just to see it's two pounds under the limit and give you an ordinance
- ticket. That makes no sense. So again, I think it's about crafting and about messaging to make sure
- we get it right the first time and don't have to keep, again, I see no need for something like that
- in there where no one's ever gonna check it.
- I don't know that anybody's anticipating that. What I'm telling you is we're trying to craft something
- that makes sense without a lot of things in there that it's like saying the inside of the tubing has
- got to be painted blue. No one's ever going to check it. I agree. That's why I said it's always good
- to have another view.
- And it wouldn't be even if it weren't just for those issues, Scott said. I mean, this Ellisville is
- a little, I mean, we would want to tailor it to our use and our traffic patterns here. So I mean, it's
- good for the county ordinance, but we couldn't just say we adopt this. They're just, I mean, no way.
- So this really just came up a week and a half, two weeks ago. So give us some time to discuss it, but I,
- I'm pretty confident in saying, at least from my point of view, this should not be a question that's
- still open by the time the reorganization vote happens. You'll have some clarity. Would you not agree,
- hopefully? Yeah. Again, I don't mean to cast dispersions on what the county did. I just am reading through
- this. There's a lot of things, like I said, we're never going to check. So why are we putting it in
- our own? No, I agree. So that's the question. It's not so much are we going to do something.
- What are we actually going to do? I just don't want them to think we're, you know. Some people, they're
- skeptical, bait and switch. Hey, we'll fix it later. Later's not next year, two years later. Probably
- first of the month. Yeah. Somewhere in that neighborhood. This is our first meeting since, this is the
- first time we've discussed it really as a council. Do you want to have some conversations with these
- folks and kind of see where we're going with it? Whoever. Yeah. I mean, you're kind of the one's most
- knowledgeable. Yeah.
- Let me, yeah, give me some time on it. But yes, we will have something out. I do have a personal statement
- I'd like to do. Go ahead. As a proud owner of a UTV and an ATV and a golf cart. Does she know you have
- all three? I started with a golf cart, but I've had an ATV my whole life.
- You have a problem then, right? So, but immediately the chatter on Facebook was reorganization and this
- policy. I don't believe they should even, they're not remotely close to being associated. The reorganization
- that we're trying to do here in Oldsville is way more important than being able to use my UTV. I would
- be very disappointed if I couldn't, because I would become
- I want to be an Elksville citizen that lives on Maple Grove Road. So I do think it's something that
- we should work on sooner than later. And so we have a clear definition of what's going to happen. But
- I don't think these two things should be joined together. And that's my public, that's my personal opinion.
- I'm not on Facebook, but even though you're not on Facebook, you still get to hear about it.
- The fact, the one thing that really, that I see every day on my road, just my road, is a tractor,
- a bicyclist, a motorcycle, e-bikes. I mean, it's just all kinds of modes of transportation that are
- going up and down our roads that we all pay for through our taxes, through our license plates.
- And I've often wondered why these three vehicles were excluded because they're not any more safe or
- any more dangerous than any other mode. You can even ride a horse down the road if you'd like and get
- run over and killed. It's not the vehicles or the way we transport ourselves that is dangerous. It's
- the people that are dangerous. And you can never going to change that. I don't care what kind of
- ordinance you put out there that you're going to be able to change somebody getting hurt. I mean, I
- was telling Jimmy, I went to the vet right before the meeting, and this guy runs me off the road, and
- he's holding that phone right in his face. I roll my window down, and I become an idiot and yell at
- him, and he doesn't put it down. He just gives me the finger and keeps on going. So that's what we're
- dealing with. It's not the vehicles that are dangerous.
- I'll be honest with you, Jeff. I don't see these as really that much different than a sand rail, which
- you can build in your garage, register, put a plate on, and drive. I agree. It's a question of how we
- craft it so that we don't do something that gets somebody hurt, gets somebody in trouble, or quite frankly,
- gives somebody the idea that I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, with whatever vehicle I want.
- Because again, those safety margins have got to be there. So you're exactly correct. And all the things
- that are on the road today, some of them should be, some of them shouldn't be. I think these have a place.
- We just have to, again, craft that message appropriately, craft the ordinance appropriately. All right,
- anyone else with privilege of the floor? Well, I'm going to say something. Well, I'm going to give you
- a personal view on this subject. I think we've got a positive conversation going. And I applaud the
- county for putting an ordinance together like every other county in the state. But for me,
- I live out on Cowden Road and we kind of live in a community and we've got some land amongst us but
- we still act like a neighborhood. And so for somebody that has accessibility or mobility problems like
- me, my life would be different and would be more confined if I didn't have my ATV. Right now it's broke
- down so I went and bought
- I went and didn't buy one. I borrowed a golf cart, and so between the UTVs, the ATVs, and now I'm even
- using a golf cart. I can, I'm mobile, and it's social, and I think it allows me, you know, I go to Canada,
- and I go all over Canada, but I can only do it because I have that kind of vehicle. And so there's a
- whole tourism
- economy up north that has to do with ATVs, UTVs, and snowmobiles. And so I'm not sure we don't have
- an opportunity to look at that. But for me, mostly it's accessibility. As the town grows, parking is
- going to become an issue. Older people like me, especially that can't walk like me, if we want to be engaged,
- It's hard to get in a car and get anywhere close to where you want to go. And I just had a call the
- other day from a couple of shop owners downtown and they were asking me about parking. And they said,
- you know, a lot of our customers, if they can't park up close, they just keep moving on. So he's talking
- about parking.
- For me, in the future, hopefully, this allows me to get right up front. I always like to park in the
- front of everything anyway. But this allows me that accessibility that keeps me a part of the social
- connection to my neighbors and maybe now even town and definitely in the county. I'll be down at the
- porthole in sooner than later. But anyway, so I just wanted to talk about why I'm so in favor of it.
- It's not for any other reason, but it just makes me accessible to everybody else. And so I think it's
- important to consider that part. You can't disagree with that. I'll be as short as possible. I promise.
- So I live on Chaffin Chapel Road for years. I mean, I grew up on Chaffin Chapel. I'm about the third
- or fourth generation on the farms out there.
- If you all don't realize, there's segments of Chapin Chapel Road that's in the county. So now I can
- actually take my gator to UTV and I can drive on that portion. My driveway comes out on Town Road. So
- right now I cannot technically drive to my dad's farm to feed animals over there because I usually throw
- hay or grain or feed as they buzz over there real quick. I've done it on my life. It'd be nice to be
- able to do it legally, but still yet today I still can't do it because of
- I drive on Town Road to get to County part of the road of Chapin Chapel Road. And it's very convenient
- using a UTV to feed livestock and working with animals. Again, and I will caution everybody, I don't
- think anyone up here in the council says, no, we're not going to do something. Yeah, I get it. I do.
- But I want to make sure everybody understands that by no means are we saying there's not going to be
- an ordinance. The question is, how is the ordinance crafted? Are we being fair to everybody?
- putting things in there we're never going to enforce it. If we're not going to enforce it, don't put
- it in there. Don't give somebody the problem in the future that somebody decides all of a sudden to
- enforce it. You know, again. So it's just a question of what we put together now and see where we go
- forward from there. So anyone else on this topic or anything else for privilege of the floor? Quickly,
- please, because usually it's limited to one.
- I might write a good point. The other counties, other than Monroe County, Monroe County is probably
- the strictest. There's a UTV and there's an ATV. And I'm not telling you to look at that, but I think
- it is important. If he lives on Cowden Road, him driving down Cowden Road on the UTV is a lot safer
- than a horse, a motorcycle, or a Bobcat or a skid steer and all these other things that you can drive
- on the road. So maybe you ought to take a look at that for certain roads. That's just an opinion. Thank you.
- Okay, thank you. All right, now we'll move to council comments. I'm sorry, let's go supervisor comments
- first. We'll come back to council. So beginning with the town manager. Good evening. I put in front
- of you tonight, a request for an addition to policy number 305, it's holidays and town of Hillsville
- personnel policy. I'd like the permission to add to that
- employees of the police department who regularly work 40 hours a week and work a holiday will receive
- the normal rate of pay for all hours worked on the holiday and the unused holiday hours will convert
- to floating holidays. I have three SROs, I have a lieutenant detective and a deputy chief and sometime
- with operational needs, we need those guys to work on the holiday. So I'd just like to have permission
- to be able to let them take that at another time. Okay, council comments?
- questions. I haven't really had time to digest this. I just got this today. I don't know how it tracks
- with our normal policy or. The other part of the policy is right on there. The rest of it's on there.
- No, I'm talking about for the other departments and. Anybody else before I ask my question? Go ahead.
- I guess, and Mike, this is probably directed at you as the town manager.
- and everybody else way in, I'm not sure why we don't do this for every department, because there will
- be times when every department needs that ability to flex time and flex personnel. Well, it's complex.
- I'm sure it is. That's why. In years past, I'm talking decades past, and unfortunately, I can talk about
- decades past, because I've been here that long. But we had times when we couldn't give
- people raises and so they give them time off. And so I'm not French, but I'm a big believer in having
- plenty of time off and holidays are important. And so we don't want burnout and we want our employees
- to be happy. But at the end of the day, when you're running the business, all you want is boots on the
- ground all the time.
- And because that's what we do. We serve the public. And if we're on a holiday, we're not serving them.
- We're relaxing. And somebody else has to serve them. And if you don't have enough people, then sometimes
- there's a conflict between pay and time off. And so the reason we don't have it for everybody is because
- ever since Jeff and I have taken care of the utilities, we've been a big proponent of time off, but also
- getting pay raises, and I think we've got to the point where we have enough time off. The only thing
- I would change in our policy right now, and when we hire somebody new, even a new employee, that'll
- get three weeks off vacation right from the start, not two weeks off. Because if you're a family man,
- you're young, and you do this, that, and the other, you're not gonna have enough time, three weeks is
- almost not enough time to grow your family. And so anyway,
- It's real conflicted for me what we should do, but we do get enough time off except for the new people
- that come on. And that's why we had conch time for a while, because we let them get another week just
- so we could get people to come work here. So anyway, I think, you know, each department's different.
- When the police need police, you've got to have them. When the fire needs fire, you've got to have them.
- And so we, the rest of the,
- The departments aren't quite the same kind of animal. I mean, it's just a little different. And so that's
- why we don't have it. I've never pushed for it, and I think we get plenty of time off. If I can ask
- a question, by no means am I trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to understand. So it's Christmas,
- and we have a water main break, and your guys are out for 12 hours fixing that water main break. They
- just don't get Christmas at that point. They get their overtime pay, and I get that. I do.
- But why would we not give them the opportunity? Because again, it's an emergency basis they're brought
- in. And sometimes what the police are doing is upping their staffing for a known quantity or known problem.
- Same with fire, you know. So this is real simple. So what they're wanting to do is if they work on Christmas,
- whatever holiday it is. We'll take July 4th where they needed to up their staffing. It was on Saturday.
- They're going to work. They're going to get paid.
- regular break, a pay, it's like they worked if it was a Monday. And they're gonna take the same eight
- hours off somewhere else. That's actually saving the town money. Because if they work and you do it
- by our personnel policy, if our guys work on a holiday, they get the eight hours holiday, plus they
- get the however many hours they work at one and a half times. So some people sometimes, and we're pushing
- snow, they'll have
- 20, 25, 26 hours. Oh, no, I get it. And by no means am I saying you make them take the day away. Just
- give them the option. So then all you're really doing is removing that eight hours and letting it take
- it off somewhere else. And I don't have any problem with that at all. It actually is still going to
- come out the same. Well, in the end, as managers, you have a minimum staffing requirement. Sorry you
- can't have that day. It can't be Christmas on July the 3rd,
- We don't know pitfalls. We should retain the right to say, no, you can't come in on work Memorial Day
- just so you can take it home. It's only if you're called in or by some reason the department. We need
- supervisors. Right now, our holidays are in eight hour increments. So if we come in and push snow, we're
- only in for two hours.
- How are you going to do that? If you want to, you're going to take two hours or you can take somewhere
- else on that day? That's why I'm against this. I'm telling you at the end of the day. That's the answer
- to my question. Well, I know, but I'll just, I'll give you the answer. At the end of the day, I'm kind
- of old school for 56 years. We came in on Christmas and we work and we just missed it. It's a little
- different for police and fire. And so I need people,
- We need, I mean, sometimes I just like wish we had people working all the time, all the time. I mean,
- that's what, but that's me. Two departments, two. But, you know, the conflict was we pushed for more
- time off, but sometimes it doesn't work out. And we have enough time off, I'm telling you. We could
- use more pay for our rank and file, but we have enough time off, and we've reached saturation point, and so,
- I've always been against the whole town having that right. But for the police, it's a little different.
- I mean, everybody doesn't come in for the DPW. People volunteer. We call them out, and they volunteer
- to come in. We've really never had to force people to work. We worked last Christmas for 12 hours. I
- was out there with them. We just missed Christmas. Well, I get that feeling, done that, been there,
- done that. My question is answered, because if you don't want to extend it to everybody, we don't.
- but I don't see we're extending it to police and if necessary, fire is gonna be a big deal. The other
- option, I support what Jimmy once did. The other option the Department of Public Works has is they can
- take some of their overtime that they had to work on Christmas as comp time and get an additional 40
- hours off. That is true. So we kind of have it built in there. We just call it comp time. So I don't
- think for us we really need to change anything and complicate it like he said on a day
- where you only work two hours on Memorial Day, what do you do with the other six? So I think we've kind
- of got it covered. Fair enough. But this would help us our scheduling. We're short people, and it would
- help us our scheduling to do that and give them a chance to take that holiday somewhere else. The fire
- department was brought in on this discussion. I went back to the department, talked to the firefighters
- that this potentially would affect.
- let them make the decision. They did not feel this was needed because the current policy allows for
- flex time because of situations like this. So if I had to bring a fire investigator in or the deputy
- chief had to come in on Christmas for four hours or eight hours and work, then he would just take those
- hours later on in the pay cycle.
- He just takes them off later. When he wants to, we just do it internally, and that prevents from getting
- to the end of the year and having holidays left over that the policy says you have to pay out of. So
- now I have to find the money left over in my budget to pay out what they saved. In other words, you
- just use it up as you get it.
- I can make it work if this is put in place, but the fire department's fine with what we have. Anyone
- else with questions? As far as I know, I've never had that money issue at the end of the year. They're
- always taking their holidays on time unless somebody hasn't let me know about it. Okay, is there anything
- from council as far as action on this request?
- Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve the proposed change to policy number 305. Second. Motion, second.
- Roll call, please. Scott Olsen? Yes. Trevor Saker? Yes. Sam Sample? Yes. William Mellon? Yes.
- Thank you. I appreciate it. Anyone else? I'm sorry. What's going on? You're still on supervisor. Is
- there anything for me? I said way too much. I want to make sure you know we are
- right now applying for the Fall Festival Parade permit, which could be an issue. We've got one plan
- to work the traffic just like we would for an accident scene, or you let the eastbound run for a while,
- then you change it to the westbound on the bridge they're working on. So we know that's not the best,
- but I talked to Mike, and he thinks he'll make the decision on that.
- Yeah, do you talk to them at all and see which way they're gonna fall, or do you know? Do you know which
- way they're gonna fall, or do you know? No, I don't. I'll probably give them a call next week.
- As you know, we did have the fireworks on the 4th. A large crowd up there, and then it got a little
- soggy. Several people left, but several came back.
- Everybody we talked to did enjoy them other than the first, you know five minutes of it was pretty pretty
- wet but it went off with a bang and There was enough money brought in to cover all of it So we're good
- and planning on doing it again next year and I appreciate everyone's help on that and especially those
- businesses and individuals that donated the money because without that it wouldn't happen there's no
- taxpayer money that goes up in that and
- as forced through the town, it's all donations, 100%. That's it, thank you. Thank you. So I just wanna
- bring before the council that we had a vacant labor's position come open July 3rd and we've had a interview
- process and we had found somebody and just let you know that the person will start on July 27th
- Okay, seeing no business for the council, we stand adjourned.