Calling the Electoral Town Council meeting for July 14th to order. Marshall, do you have a prayer? I
have my father. Again, we come before you and ask you to bless this little town, bless the employees,
keep them safe. We ask you to bless the board members tonight as they make the decision that affects
us. We ask these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United
States of America.
and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. Okay, roll call please. Scott Obram, Dan Swofford, William Ellis. Here. Trevor Sager. Here.
Pamela Samples. Here. Okay, have the approval of minutes.
6, 22, 26. Any changes or council comments? Make a motion to approve the minutes from 6, 22, 2026. Second.
All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Or extension to none? Passes. Action to pay accounts, payable
vouchers and payroll vouchers. So moved. Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
Any abstentions? Seeing none. First resolution, we got resolution, actually, I'm gonna pause and let
the town council presidents, okay, I'll go on. All right. Resolution 12-2026 of the Ellsville Town Council,
approving the annexation of territory located at 5326 West Woodyard Road and 5328 West Woodyard Road.
Is that you, Denise, or who has that? Okay. At the Ellsville Planning Commission,
Last Thursday, the plan commission voted unanimously to send the annexation of what we're calling the
rary property to the town council with a recommendation that the annexation be approved. Because there's
a reorganization in progress under the Indiana Code, as I'm interpreting it, the annexation cannot take
place unless the reorganizing entities both pass a resolution
approving the annexation of territory. So that is step one here tonight. A similar resolution has been
prepared and sent to the Richland Township Board, and if the board approves it, it will come back hopefully
at the next town council meeting, the second meeting in July, for approval of the annexation ordinance
and the fiscal plan. So what are we doing with it tonight?
Okay, questions from Council? Just if the petitioner, if they're here, if they want to speak to it or
not, that's all. Mr. Eyre, anything? If you have any questions. Seeing no questions, back to the Council
for action. I'll move to approve ordinance, yeah.
How do we word the starlet to approve it, to send it, or just approve it? Approve resolution 1226. Okay,
move to approve resolution 1226, the Aliceville Town Council approving the annexation of territory located
5326 Westwood Yard Road and 5328 Westwood Yard Road. Second. Motion second, protocol please. Scott Oldham?
Yes. William Ellis? Yes. Trevor Sager? Yes. Pamela Samples? Yes. Motion carried.
Tonight, there are two ordinances on first reading, the first of which is Ordinance 26-10, an ordinance
to amend Chapter 73, Schedule 2 of the Elstville Town Code, to add additional stop intersections. I
asked R to put this ordinance together. The new harm and harm subdivision actually intersects with
South Ridge Springs Lane and North Sycamore Drive. At the present moment, North Wallace Harmon Way is
still a private road. It does have a stop sign at it for the construction and what public is already
either living there or going in and out. And I'm requesting to make that whole center intersection,
even though that side's not brought in yet, I guess you could say,
an all-way stop is what they call it nowadays not three-way and make it more safe for the school upcoming
school year so and I'm gonna I'm gonna put advanced signs in advance for stops so people can pay attention
to that okay questions council okay it's an order it's on first reading so it'd be coming back to us
for a second reading next time the next ordinance this evening is 26th
2026-11, the wholesale water cost tracker orders to change the water rates by the Eldsville Municipal
Water Utility. So you probably read in the newspaper the City of Bloomington Utilities has successfully
petitioned the IURC for a rate increase and because the town buys its water from the City of Bloomington,
that unfortunately means that the town needs to raise its rates and it has contracted with Baker Tilly
to file a petition with the IURC
to request a tracker, which is 99 cents per thousand gallons, and that is further down on the agenda.
If the town council approves that petition, then the town will petition the IURC for a tracker. And
what is immediately before the council is a proposed ordinance that will hopefully come back for public
hearing at the second meeting in July for passage of the water tracker ordinance.
So I know 99 cents per thousand gallons doesn't sound like much, but last year the town purchased, the
cost to the town to purchase water from the City of Bloomington Utilities was just over a million dollars,
and with the new CBU rates, the cost will now be $1,353,000 and some change. So it's not an insubstantial
increase, but I just want to make it clear that the town is not actually raising
its rates for any other reason other than the tracker. Two years ago, the town did hire Baker-Tilley
to prepare a report. It raised its rates in two phases. Phase two went into effect of April last year,
and those charges remain in effect. But the whole point of this ordinance is just to add to those rates,
if that makes sense, for the water tracker. This is just because our baseline rate went up, so everything
else has to go up?
we're not taking any extra money from this. Correct. All right. You're just covering the cost to purchase
it from city of Bloomington. Otherwise we'd be losing based on last year about three hundred K. Right.
Are there questions on this even though it's on first reading or Mike's reading you or Jeff won't explain.
I think you said maintain the rates that we established in twenty twenty four so we can do the work
that was projected and maintain our own M
Expenses and without without providing us this tracker Are you know we can lose twenty five thirty thousand
dollars a month? Yeah, it's not like we're making a profit on this guys. No. No, it's it's penny for
penny. Yeah, okay All right. Well that will again come back to us on their next meeting because this
is an ordinance on first reading There are no ordinances on second reading this evening There is no
old business under new businesses again the town of belts for water tracking factor to the increase
from city of Wilmington
Is there anything further to add? Nothing other than I ask that the town council approve the petition
to be filed with the IURC. Okay, questions from council? Anybody from the public want to speak to that?
And back to council for action. Make a motion to approve the petition to the IURC for the water tracking factor.
Do the increase from the city of Bloomington motion second. Yes. William Ellis. Yes. Trevor Sager. Yes.
Pamela samples. Yes. Motion. There is no other new business and I want the privilege of the Florida
and having business for the council not part of our normal agenda.
Hello, can you hear me? Good to go. My name's Tom Orman, and I'm here to talk about a UTV ordinance.
Me and these two gentlemen behind me were the reasons we got one passed in Monroe County. We worked
with the Department of Transportation. We worked very closely with Mike Braun's office. We worked with
Jeff Cockrell, and we worked with the commissioners. Every county around us has UTV ordinances, and
Ellitsville is one to expand its limits.
My particular, where I live, I worked hard to get this ordinance. This right would be taken away from
me. So 88 counties of the 92 in the state of Indiana have UTV ordinances. And they're safe. They've
got roll cages. They've got seat belts. My particular unit, you can't drive over 15 miles an hour unless
you have a seat belt or it's reduced speed. I understand Highway 46 is not the place for these.
motorcycle versus UTV. If I'm driving down McNeely Road, 35 miles an hour and a deer hits me, I'm on
a motorcycle. With a helmet or without a helmet? It's probably not going to be good. But if I'm in my
UTV that has a metal bar, roll cage, and seat belts, the outcome's going to be a lot different. A lot
of people want to talk about safety, so we'll talk about safety. I was driving down Union Valley Road
last week, bicycle. At one point, I was going six miles an hour.
That's dangerous. These things aren't. They have registrations, they have insurance, you have to have
proof of all that. I just don't want to see with this reorganization a lot of people not want to come
to this community that have the rights out in Monroe County at this time. We're a wealth of information.
We've done a lot of homework on these things. So we would work with the council if they would choose
that they would want to do that. Let's see.
I guess that's it. I just, this is going to affect me. I am pro-Wellitsville. I am next in Smith bike
crossing down here, we're urban areas and that strip mall because of Monroe County standards. I don't
want things taken away from us that we worked hard to get. So I think it'd be very beneficial if you
guys take a hard look at this.
Make sure you sign in and give us your name, please. All right, thanks for letting me come up here and
speak and kind of give you guys a little bit more insight of how hard it was for us to get the work
that's done in Merrill County.
I worked diligently with the commissioners, the attorneys, all local authorities, Department
of Transportation, also working with Mike Braun's office. Worked with a lot of other individuals that
was involved in seven or nine different counties to get the ordinances passed. I myself, I've been involved
in UTV since 2009.
So not only do I have a shop that I work on them, I install turn signal kits, all kinds of safety devices,
harnesses, hand controls for the handicap. So pretty much, I think a lot of people aren't aware of how
they have evolved in the last 20 years as far as safety. Believe it or not, it's one of the only vehicles
that's allowed on our roadways through the Department of Transportation that actually has a ROPS program
in place. And that's mandated by the federal government, and it's a rollover protection system. Your
daily car doesn't have that. As Tom was stating, there's a lot of other safety factors played into it.
They've increased the size of these machines. They're not really small anymore.
greatly changed and a lot of abilities and stability and things that everybody was always against in
the past and I think the main thing is we all have to evolve as you guys all know as county council
members you have to evolve as times change and as things change we all have to accept it and I think
that was the one reason we did get it past Monroe County through the commissioner's office was because
They took an interest in it. A couple of the council members actually went and rode in them. And they
were really surprised. And I think that that was the overwhelming support that we got from them, that
the safety is there. There's obviously things that we agree with and things we don't agree with. Some
of the other machines and ATVs and golf carts and so on and so forth, we can't.
I can't say good or bad towards them because I'm not here to adjudicate for them. I'm here for just
the UTV use and my knowledge and the safety that I think that they can provide. And it gives the taxpayers
and the people the opportunity to enjoy our great area that we live in. Right. I mean we live in one
of the most beautiful places there are. And I go all over the country to these
different states and I ride in these ride parks. I mean, West Virginia, they allow you to go down the
interstate. Tennessee, you can drive anywhere you want. They actually recommend you to do it. And it's
the revenue that's generated from the UTVs in several states is what funds a lot of the help for the DNR
And like the TWRA in Tennessee, I mean, they generate millions of dollars a year from this. And I'm
currently working with Mike Braun's office and have been for a while, hopefully to expand Indiana and
get us on board with a lot of these surrounding states that generate a lot of revenue. And it will open
the doors for a lot of
revenue for us, I think, here. But our main thing is it is safety. And I'm a firm believer in that.
And I think the turn signals and the ordinance that they put into place is a pretty good fit. And I
appreciate you guys' time. Let me explain it to you. If you have any more questions, you're more than
able to get a hold of me at any time. I can give you any more additional information you might need.
and hopefully we can get an ordinance done. Sure. Are you asking for a similar ordinance as what Monroe
County? I think so. I think Monroe County put together a good ordinance. We worked with Jeff Cockerill,
the county attorney. They were very open to it, and the dialogue was good. We worked with each other,
and we found a pretty good fit. Obviously, Monroe County's a little more stern than a lot.
So that's one of the issues that I think the state house is kind of wondering about because our ordinances
here are stricter than the surrounding counties around us. Is that going to cause a problem for people
that actually cross the county line and come over here if they don't have, you know what I mean? So
I think it's a pretty good ordinance. I think it's a little more stern than what a lot of them I see.
I do not know. I don't think so, but I can check on that for you. Just to answer your question, they
do require any side-by-side to be registered at the date of the purchase. Now, they just started that
recently, a couple years ago. So the state is receiving money for the registrations. That's not my question at all.
It's more of the wheel tax thing. If we could get some clarification on that. Sure. Thanks. Yeah. And
I think I did. I did talk to the governor's office about that. That's whenever I reached out and I've
got with the Indian Department of Transportation. Yep. So whenever you maybe do some digging into that,
you'll find out that only the Indiana Department of Transportation, NDOT, is the ones that puts that
guideline.
So for the wheel tags and so on and so forth, that's like, when I started this two years ago, it took
me two years and 19 days to get that ordinance passed. When I did start that, it was a lot of research
and going back and forth and I was always told, show me it's not where it is illegal to write these
because they've evolved.
So there was never an ordinance even in Monroe County. You couldn't operate one of these vehicles because
it was based on the old ordinance. So that was the hardest part because we couldn't amend an ordinance
that didn't exist. And so that was the main question with the tax and the stuff that I brought up with
the Department of Transportation. So we may just have to update our ordinance.
Yeah, that was an important question. And also, we have most all UTV ordinances of the 88 counties,
if that's helpful. The 88 of the 92 counties in the state of Indiana do does have an ordinance. So that
was a very important question. Why is the state of Indiana? Why officer pulls you over? Let me see your
registration proof insurance. Why? It's illegal. Why even asking for that? That's that's an important question.
Right? Because they are. They are a registered vehicle through the state of Indiana. All right.
Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to talk a little bit about
how they are really beneficial to a lot of municipalities. Bloomington's got them. They use them all
over downtown to navigate around in and out tight spots. IU uses them like crazy on campus because you
can't take a full-size truck and go park it downtown at some of these little big parking spots. They
use them for a lot of snow removal in the winter because
You can loop in and out and get in and out of a little tight spot that you can't get a big four-wheel
drive truck turned around in. I've used mine a lot for a lot of storms. I mean, you guys know, they
say the tornado alley, everything's shifting. We've seen to get a lot more storms here lately.
Cleaning up, helping to get people. The fire departments, they have them. They use them like crazy whenever
they need to, whenever you can't get them where a truck goes. They're a lighter footprint.
You know, if a tree's down and you've got to go around to get somebody to help them, you're not going
to tear the tar out of somebody's yard. You're not going to get stuck. You're not going to run it up.
You can navigate around and get to somebody. We've used them in a lot of scenarios like that, mainly
for the storms and snow removal is a big thing. I mean, the one I've got is about the size, really close
to a Ford Ranger, just a hair bit smaller.
And I can push an eight foot blade as good as my one ton full drive. But I can get in and out of a driveway.
I don't tear your driveway up. I don't tear your landscaping up whenever I drive over or just barely
get off the edge because you get six inches of snow and it's hard to tell where stuff is. I mean, I
use them for work all the time and I love them. And my biggest fear is if you guys do get the annexation
done, which I think would be great,
that would just really cut down on what we could do and where we could do it. And that would be one
of my biggest concerns. Because I've got property that that annexation will include. So therefore I
wouldn't be allowed to drive it to or from that property at that point in time. So that's just some
of the ways that we use them, that it benefits us, lighter footprint, get in and out without tearing
stuff up. And they're really beneficial for
a lot of small businesses doing stuff around here, and even the municipalities, I could see where they
could really benefit from it. And I agree with Tom, 46, absolutely not, not the place for it. But if
I live on the west side of Monroe County, and I want to go north to Morgan County, I've either got to
go to County Line, or I've got to go dang near around the south side of Bloomington to go out to come
back up the north side to get to Martinsville. Because between Bloomington and this,
hardly know where I can get through other than going all the way out to the county line. So I think
that I'd really like to see Bloomington adopt the ordinance or put a place in a very similar ordinance
to what they have. You know, even if there's some areas you want to restrict or some roads that you
want to, you know, say it's okay and say it's not okay. I just like voice my opinion and appreciate
your guys' time. All right. Thank you, sir.
Any questions or comments? Well, I would just say that under no circumstances do I want to be more restricted
than the county, so I'm very supportive of some type of ordinance. We've not seen one yet, but I can
tell you no matter what we do, it's not going to take two and a half years. Ellisville doesn't drag
their feet on common sense stuff. Thank you. Is this the open discussion part of this? Yeah, go ahead.
I guess one thing that I'm concerned about is I'm seeing on Facebook and hearing a lot of things about
ORVs, UTVs, heading to their favorite ice cream shop on State Road 46. Like these gentlemen just said,
it's state law that you can't have it out on state highways. So I guess that's my biggest concern. State
Road 46 is such a major vein within our community that
We're gonna have some issues out there. Yeah, they're gonna be ticketed toed. Yeah, and the question
is crossing over 46, because you're technically on 46. So if you have a crash at Union Valley, no, no,
we're kind of done for a minute, okay? My problem is how we get you across the roadways, because if
you get an intersection, you're on 46, and you're not allowed to be on 46. So that's, I think an ordinance
is appropriate,
just how we structure it to make sure that we're watching the second, third, fourth order effects.
And that's, I think, the bigger issue than if we need an ordinance or not. It's how do you structure
it so that it's useful as opposed to people go, oh, well, they've got an ordinance. I can cross 46.
I can go to Jiffy Tree. Nope, you can't. That's not our doing. And what I don't want to get is someone
inadvertently caught
in a legal problem because they've crossed 46 and got an accident at the intersection, that is State
Road 46. You may not have it there according to state law. So who does that make automatically at fault?
You can't be there. And I do know, and this is something I'm going to interrupt you, I do know in the
Indiana State guide line, you can cross any state highway in the state of Indiana at a 90 degree angle.
Well, again,
The guidelines are not necessarily a law at this point. Now, again, there's some questions as to whether
or not it's interpreted as the law. But I don't think that where I'm going is I don't think it's our
purview to regulate that. What I think is I don't want to open it up to everybody assumes because Ellsfield
did it, everything is now in play. That's a problem for whoever. But what I don't want to do is give
people this false sense of, yeah, go wherever you want. That's a problem.
Under D, it says a recreation vehicle, UTV may cross a prohibited roadway at a right angle when the
operation can be done safely. So it's kind of. Yeah, it's kind of nevertheless, can be done safely.
Again, I think we entertained something, guys. I don't know exactly how it's worded, and I want to make
sure that we take second, third, fourth order effects involved here. Yeah, we're going to, I'd like,
I mean, I would like
a couple of meetings with some department heads before we shape this. I mean, I think about the point
is, OK, bikes are allowed in certain areas. They're not necessarily allowed in 46, so what happens?
What I don't want to see is a vehicle that only is capable of running 15 miles an hour now clogging
up a street where it's 30, 35, 40 miles an hour. On the other hand, some of these vehicles are capable
of well in excess of 60, 70, 80 miles an hour. And a lot of them are running without any type of tag
or anything else on it.
I think we're open to it, is what I'm trying to say. I just think we don't want to rush into something
that we regret doing, safety-wise, because our citizens are our biggest concern, right? So it's going
to take a few conversations with some of these folks sitting up here to bring you the best version of
the ordinance we can. We do appreciate that. And that's what I did, working with the Highway Department.
I worked diligently with the Highway Department and the Traffic Division.
And in doing so, we came up with those disputes and where we come to an agreement, and it was that very
same thing you just expressed. So basically, we're not advocating for the golf carts, the four-wheelers.
That's a totally different scenario. And in our ordinance that we got done at General County,
I'm sure we can get you guys coffee for sure. Okay. But it does have to, you'd have to be able to exceed
35 mile an hour. The vehicle has to exceed it. So there's a width requirement. And if you read through
there, it's pretty, I mean, I'll just be blunt. There's some things on here that aren't enforceable.
You know, it has to have no more than, can't be more than 2,500 pounds. No one's going to come out there
and weigh you.
You know, has to be able to go 35 miles an hour. No one's going to set up a radar station to make sure
you can go 36. You know, again, so it's nice to have on paper, but that's that second, third, fourth
order effect I'm talking about is that if people hear this without the proper preparation and the proper
notice, they're going to think, well, I've got a golf cart and I'm going to go, no, that's not what
this is about at all. So there's got to have to be a lot of care and caution as to how we craft this.
And again, I'm not trying to throw any type of criticism at the county or not. They did what they did
for a reason. But the practicality of that reason, really, I don't see putting anybody on the side of
the road and weighing the thing just to see it's two pounds under the limit and give you an ordinance
ticket. That makes no sense. So again, I think it's about crafting and about messaging to make sure
we get it right the first time and don't have to keep, again, I see no need for something like that
in there where no one's ever gonna check it.
I don't know that anybody's anticipating that. What I'm telling you is we're trying to craft something
that makes sense without a lot of things in there that it's like saying the inside of the tubing has
got to be painted blue. No one's ever going to check it. I agree. That's why I said it's always good
to have another view.
And it wouldn't be even if it weren't just for those issues, Scott said. I mean, this Ellisville is
a little, I mean, we would want to tailor it to our use and our traffic patterns here. So I mean, it's
good for the county ordinance, but we couldn't just say we adopt this. They're just, I mean, no way.
So this really just came up a week and a half, two weeks ago. So give us some time to discuss it, but I,
I'm pretty confident in saying, at least from my point of view, this should not be a question that's
still open by the time the reorganization vote happens. You'll have some clarity. Would you not agree,
hopefully? Yeah. Again, I don't mean to cast dispersions on what the county did. I just am reading through
this. There's a lot of things, like I said, we're never going to check. So why are we putting it in
our own? No, I agree. So that's the question. It's not so much are we going to do something.
What are we actually going to do? I just don't want them to think we're, you know. Some people, they're
skeptical, bait and switch. Hey, we'll fix it later. Later's not next year, two years later. Probably
first of the month. Yeah. Somewhere in that neighborhood. This is our first meeting since, this is the
first time we've discussed it really as a council. Do you want to have some conversations with these
folks and kind of see where we're going with it? Whoever. Yeah. I mean, you're kind of the one's most
knowledgeable. Yeah.
Let me, yeah, give me some time on it. But yes, we will have something out. I do have a personal statement
I'd like to do. Go ahead. As a proud owner of a UTV and an ATV and a golf cart. Does she know you have
all three? I started with a golf cart, but I've had an ATV my whole life.
You have a problem then, right? So, but immediately the chatter on Facebook was reorganization and this
policy. I don't believe they should even, they're not remotely close to being associated. The reorganization
that we're trying to do here in Oldsville is way more important than being able to use my UTV. I would
be very disappointed if I couldn't, because I would become
I want to be an Elksville citizen that lives on Maple Grove Road. So I do think it's something that
we should work on sooner than later. And so we have a clear definition of what's going to happen. But
I don't think these two things should be joined together. And that's my public, that's my personal opinion.
I'm not on Facebook, but even though you're not on Facebook, you still get to hear about it.
The fact, the one thing that really, that I see every day on my road, just my road, is a tractor,
a bicyclist, a motorcycle, e-bikes. I mean, it's just all kinds of modes of transportation that are
going up and down our roads that we all pay for through our taxes, through our license plates.
And I've often wondered why these three vehicles were excluded because they're not any more safe or
any more dangerous than any other mode. You can even ride a horse down the road if you'd like and get
run over and killed. It's not the vehicles or the way we transport ourselves that is dangerous. It's
the people that are dangerous. And you can never going to change that. I don't care what kind of
ordinance you put out there that you're going to be able to change somebody getting hurt. I mean, I
was telling Jimmy, I went to the vet right before the meeting, and this guy runs me off the road, and
he's holding that phone right in his face. I roll my window down, and I become an idiot and yell at
him, and he doesn't put it down. He just gives me the finger and keeps on going. So that's what we're
dealing with. It's not the vehicles that are dangerous.
I'll be honest with you, Jeff. I don't see these as really that much different than a sand rail, which
you can build in your garage, register, put a plate on, and drive. I agree. It's a question of how we
craft it so that we don't do something that gets somebody hurt, gets somebody in trouble, or quite frankly,
gives somebody the idea that I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, with whatever vehicle I want.
Because again, those safety margins have got to be there. So you're exactly correct. And all the things
that are on the road today, some of them should be, some of them shouldn't be. I think these have a place.
We just have to, again, craft that message appropriately, craft the ordinance appropriately. All right,
anyone else with privilege of the floor? Well, I'm going to say something. Well, I'm going to give you
a personal view on this subject. I think we've got a positive conversation going. And I applaud the
county for putting an ordinance together like every other county in the state. But for me,
I live out on Cowden Road and we kind of live in a community and we've got some land amongst us but
we still act like a neighborhood. And so for somebody that has accessibility or mobility problems like
me, my life would be different and would be more confined if I didn't have my ATV. Right now it's broke
down so I went and bought
I went and didn't buy one. I borrowed a golf cart, and so between the UTVs, the ATVs, and now I'm even
using a golf cart. I can, I'm mobile, and it's social, and I think it allows me, you know, I go to Canada,
and I go all over Canada, but I can only do it because I have that kind of vehicle. And so there's a
whole tourism
economy up north that has to do with ATVs, UTVs, and snowmobiles. And so I'm not sure we don't have
an opportunity to look at that. But for me, mostly it's accessibility. As the town grows, parking is
going to become an issue. Older people like me, especially that can't walk like me, if we want to be engaged,
It's hard to get in a car and get anywhere close to where you want to go. And I just had a call the
other day from a couple of shop owners downtown and they were asking me about parking. And they said,
you know, a lot of our customers, if they can't park up close, they just keep moving on. So he's talking
about parking.
For me, in the future, hopefully, this allows me to get right up front. I always like to park in the
front of everything anyway. But this allows me that accessibility that keeps me a part of the social
connection to my neighbors and maybe now even town and definitely in the county. I'll be down at the
porthole in sooner than later. But anyway, so I just wanted to talk about why I'm so in favor of it.
It's not for any other reason, but it just makes me accessible to everybody else. And so I think it's
important to consider that part. You can't disagree with that. I'll be as short as possible. I promise.
So I live on Chaffin Chapel Road for years. I mean, I grew up on Chaffin Chapel. I'm about the third
or fourth generation on the farms out there.
If you all don't realize, there's segments of Chapin Chapel Road that's in the county. So now I can
actually take my gator to UTV and I can drive on that portion. My driveway comes out on Town Road. So
right now I cannot technically drive to my dad's farm to feed animals over there because I usually throw
hay or grain or feed as they buzz over there real quick. I've done it on my life. It'd be nice to be
able to do it legally, but still yet today I still can't do it because of
I drive on Town Road to get to County part of the road of Chapin Chapel Road. And it's very convenient
using a UTV to feed livestock and working with animals. Again, and I will caution everybody, I don't
think anyone up here in the council says, no, we're not going to do something. Yeah, I get it. I do.
But I want to make sure everybody understands that by no means are we saying there's not going to be
an ordinance. The question is, how is the ordinance crafted? Are we being fair to everybody?
putting things in there we're never going to enforce it. If we're not going to enforce it, don't put
it in there. Don't give somebody the problem in the future that somebody decides all of a sudden to
enforce it. You know, again. So it's just a question of what we put together now and see where we go
forward from there. So anyone else on this topic or anything else for privilege of the floor? Quickly,
please, because usually it's limited to one.
I might write a good point. The other counties, other than Monroe County, Monroe County is probably
the strictest. There's a UTV and there's an ATV. And I'm not telling you to look at that, but I think
it is important. If he lives on Cowden Road, him driving down Cowden Road on the UTV is a lot safer
than a horse, a motorcycle, or a Bobcat or a skid steer and all these other things that you can drive
on the road. So maybe you ought to take a look at that for certain roads. That's just an opinion. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. All right, now we'll move to council comments. I'm sorry, let's go supervisor comments
first. We'll come back to council. So beginning with the town manager. Good evening. I put in front
of you tonight, a request for an addition to policy number 305, it's holidays and town of Hillsville
personnel policy. I'd like the permission to add to that
employees of the police department who regularly work 40 hours a week and work a holiday will receive
the normal rate of pay for all hours worked on the holiday and the unused holiday hours will convert
to floating holidays. I have three SROs, I have a lieutenant detective and a deputy chief and sometime
with operational needs, we need those guys to work on the holiday. So I'd just like to have permission
to be able to let them take that at another time. Okay, council comments?
questions. I haven't really had time to digest this. I just got this today. I don't know how it tracks
with our normal policy or. The other part of the policy is right on there. The rest of it's on there.
No, I'm talking about for the other departments and. Anybody else before I ask my question? Go ahead.
I guess, and Mike, this is probably directed at you as the town manager.
and everybody else way in, I'm not sure why we don't do this for every department, because there will
be times when every department needs that ability to flex time and flex personnel. Well, it's complex.
I'm sure it is. That's why. In years past, I'm talking decades past, and unfortunately, I can talk about
decades past, because I've been here that long. But we had times when we couldn't give
people raises and so they give them time off. And so I'm not French, but I'm a big believer in having
plenty of time off and holidays are important. And so we don't want burnout and we want our employees
to be happy. But at the end of the day, when you're running the business, all you want is boots on the
ground all the time.
And because that's what we do. We serve the public. And if we're on a holiday, we're not serving them.
We're relaxing. And somebody else has to serve them. And if you don't have enough people, then sometimes
there's a conflict between pay and time off. And so the reason we don't have it for everybody is because
ever since Jeff and I have taken care of the utilities, we've been a big proponent of time off, but also
getting pay raises, and I think we've got to the point where we have enough time off. The only thing
I would change in our policy right now, and when we hire somebody new, even a new employee, that'll
get three weeks off vacation right from the start, not two weeks off. Because if you're a family man,
you're young, and you do this, that, and the other, you're not gonna have enough time, three weeks is
almost not enough time to grow your family. And so anyway,
It's real conflicted for me what we should do, but we do get enough time off except for the new people
that come on. And that's why we had conch time for a while, because we let them get another week just
so we could get people to come work here. So anyway, I think, you know, each department's different.
When the police need police, you've got to have them. When the fire needs fire, you've got to have them.
And so we, the rest of the,
The departments aren't quite the same kind of animal. I mean, it's just a little different. And so that's
why we don't have it. I've never pushed for it, and I think we get plenty of time off. If I can ask
a question, by no means am I trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to understand. So it's Christmas,
and we have a water main break, and your guys are out for 12 hours fixing that water main break. They
just don't get Christmas at that point. They get their overtime pay, and I get that. I do.
But why would we not give them the opportunity? Because again, it's an emergency basis they're brought
in. And sometimes what the police are doing is upping their staffing for a known quantity or known problem.
Same with fire, you know. So this is real simple. So what they're wanting to do is if they work on Christmas,
whatever holiday it is. We'll take July 4th where they needed to up their staffing. It was on Saturday.
They're going to work. They're going to get paid.
regular break, a pay, it's like they worked if it was a Monday. And they're gonna take the same eight
hours off somewhere else. That's actually saving the town money. Because if they work and you do it
by our personnel policy, if our guys work on a holiday, they get the eight hours holiday, plus they
get the however many hours they work at one and a half times. So some people sometimes, and we're pushing
snow, they'll have
20, 25, 26 hours. Oh, no, I get it. And by no means am I saying you make them take the day away. Just
give them the option. So then all you're really doing is removing that eight hours and letting it take
it off somewhere else. And I don't have any problem with that at all. It actually is still going to
come out the same. Well, in the end, as managers, you have a minimum staffing requirement. Sorry you
can't have that day. It can't be Christmas on July the 3rd,
We don't know pitfalls. We should retain the right to say, no, you can't come in on work Memorial Day
just so you can take it home. It's only if you're called in or by some reason the department. We need
supervisors. Right now, our holidays are in eight hour increments. So if we come in and push snow, we're
only in for two hours.
How are you going to do that? If you want to, you're going to take two hours or you can take somewhere
else on that day? That's why I'm against this. I'm telling you at the end of the day. That's the answer
to my question. Well, I know, but I'll just, I'll give you the answer. At the end of the day, I'm kind
of old school for 56 years. We came in on Christmas and we work and we just missed it. It's a little
different for police and fire. And so I need people,
We need, I mean, sometimes I just like wish we had people working all the time, all the time. I mean,
that's what, but that's me. Two departments, two. But, you know, the conflict was we pushed for more
time off, but sometimes it doesn't work out. And we have enough time off, I'm telling you. We could
use more pay for our rank and file, but we have enough time off, and we've reached saturation point, and so,
I've always been against the whole town having that right. But for the police, it's a little different.
I mean, everybody doesn't come in for the DPW. People volunteer. We call them out, and they volunteer
to come in. We've really never had to force people to work. We worked last Christmas for 12 hours. I
was out there with them. We just missed Christmas. Well, I get that feeling, done that, been there,
done that. My question is answered, because if you don't want to extend it to everybody, we don't.
but I don't see we're extending it to police and if necessary, fire is gonna be a big deal. The other
option, I support what Jimmy once did. The other option the Department of Public Works has is they can
take some of their overtime that they had to work on Christmas as comp time and get an additional 40
hours off. That is true. So we kind of have it built in there. We just call it comp time. So I don't
think for us we really need to change anything and complicate it like he said on a day
where you only work two hours on Memorial Day, what do you do with the other six? So I think we've kind
of got it covered. Fair enough. But this would help us our scheduling. We're short people, and it would
help us our scheduling to do that and give them a chance to take that holiday somewhere else. The fire
department was brought in on this discussion. I went back to the department, talked to the firefighters
that this potentially would affect.
let them make the decision. They did not feel this was needed because the current policy allows for
flex time because of situations like this. So if I had to bring a fire investigator in or the deputy
chief had to come in on Christmas for four hours or eight hours and work, then he would just take those
hours later on in the pay cycle.
He just takes them off later. When he wants to, we just do it internally, and that prevents from getting
to the end of the year and having holidays left over that the policy says you have to pay out of. So
now I have to find the money left over in my budget to pay out what they saved. In other words, you
just use it up as you get it.
I can make it work if this is put in place, but the fire department's fine with what we have. Anyone
else with questions? As far as I know, I've never had that money issue at the end of the year. They're
always taking their holidays on time unless somebody hasn't let me know about it. Okay, is there anything
from council as far as action on this request?
Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve the proposed change to policy number 305. Second. Motion, second.
Roll call, please. Scott Olsen? Yes. Trevor Saker? Yes. Sam Sample? Yes. William Mellon? Yes.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Anyone else? I'm sorry. What's going on? You're still on supervisor. Is
there anything for me? I said way too much. I want to make sure you know we are
right now applying for the Fall Festival Parade permit, which could be an issue. We've got one plan
to work the traffic just like we would for an accident scene, or you let the eastbound run for a while,
then you change it to the westbound on the bridge they're working on. So we know that's not the best,
but I talked to Mike, and he thinks he'll make the decision on that.
Yeah, do you talk to them at all and see which way they're gonna fall, or do you know? Do you know which
way they're gonna fall, or do you know? No, I don't. I'll probably give them a call next week.
As you know, we did have the fireworks on the 4th. A large crowd up there, and then it got a little
soggy. Several people left, but several came back.
Everybody we talked to did enjoy them other than the first, you know five minutes of it was pretty pretty
wet but it went off with a bang and There was enough money brought in to cover all of it So we're good
and planning on doing it again next year and I appreciate everyone's help on that and especially those
businesses and individuals that donated the money because without that it wouldn't happen there's no
taxpayer money that goes up in that and
as forced through the town, it's all donations, 100%. That's it, thank you. Thank you. So I just wanna
bring before the council that we had a vacant labor's position come open July 3rd and we've had a interview
process and we had found somebody and just let you know that the person will start on July 27th
Okay, seeing no business for the council, we stand adjourned.