WEBVTT 00:00:00.386 --> 00:00:11.187 - We're happy to welcome all our guests. We have seven guests today. We would love it if you would stand 00:00:11.187 --> 00:00:21.673 - so we could greet you with some applause. Please patience with my pronunciations. So please welcome 00:00:21.673 --> 00:00:29.118 - a guest from the OCE Lab of Civic Engagement, Shilpa Nandiala. Shilpa? 00:00:30.146 --> 00:00:42.789 - Oh, are you observing? All right, follow up to last week's speaker already. Guest of Mike Baker, David 00:00:42.789 --> 00:00:55.063 - McFadden. Kyla Cox-Deckard is welcoming three guests with her from the Center for Rural Engagement, 00:00:55.063 --> 00:00:57.150 - and Elise Jenke. 00:01:00.802 --> 00:01:20.686 - Gina Vertrees and Milan Gaston. Another guest, Becky Wan, is a guest of Mark Peterson. Becky. And a 00:01:20.686 --> 00:01:27.646 - guest of Michael Wade, Megan Wade. 00:01:32.002 --> 00:01:41.373 - Welcome. If you have any questions about Rotary, feel free to ask the folks at your table. And do we 00:01:41.373 --> 00:01:51.023 - have any guests online? Hey, Hank. Oops. OK. Hello. Yes, Megan Wade is joining us online, so as a guest 00:01:51.023 --> 00:01:55.198 - online. And other than that, just Rotarians. 00:01:59.426 --> 00:02:06.449 - saying any of you who'd like to learn more about Rotary, just turn to someone at your table and ask 00:02:06.449 --> 00:02:14.034 - away. Birthdays, we have several birthdays to celebrate. On the 11th, past club president and past district 00:02:14.034 --> 00:02:21.619 - governor Lance Eberly. On the 12th, Forrest Gilmore. On the 14th, past club president and district governor 00:02:21.619 --> 00:02:27.870 - Judy Witt. And on the 15th, Erica Kovacs. One anniversary to observe, Judge Jeff Bradley 00:02:28.130 --> 00:02:35.044 - Five years with our club, 12 years total as a Rotarian. We have a number of announcements. Please join 00:02:35.044 --> 00:02:42.092 - the members of the Rotary Book Club following the regular celebration of service at 1 p.m. next Tuesday, 00:02:42.092 --> 00:02:48.805 - right after the meeting. They will have a brief meetup to field questions that Rotarians might have 00:02:48.805 --> 00:02:54.846 - about the group, and they'll also decide what the next book will be and the meeting date. 00:02:55.650 --> 00:03:03.281 - The Rotary District Conference registration is now open, scheduled for May 8th and 9th at the Gold House 00:03:03.281 --> 00:03:10.549 - in Louisville. And you can learn more and register at rotaryallstars.com and there should be a link 00:03:10.549 --> 00:03:18.325 - in the roundabout. Save the date for the Wonder Lab Summer Blast Off on May 21st, an afternoon and evening 00:03:18.325 --> 00:03:21.886 - street party celebrating the last day of school. 00:03:22.530 --> 00:03:29.535 - Loomington Rotary Foundation is the primary event sponsor, and we'll need some club members to volunteer 00:03:29.535 --> 00:03:36.673 - that day. It should be a fun time, and if you want to learn more about it, the link will be in roundabout. 00:03:36.673 --> 00:03:43.610 - Don't forget that during meeting times, club members can also park for free at the Henderson or Atwater 00:03:43.610 --> 00:03:49.214 - garages. I parked at Atwater today. Campus sidewalks are clear. It was a nice walk. 00:03:49.410 --> 00:03:57.003 - If you want to avoid some of the parking problems at the Union parking lot, or you don't want to navigate 00:03:57.003 --> 00:04:04.597 - all the students in front of the Union, both Henderson and Atwater are good choices. So I think I crossed 00:04:04.597 --> 00:04:11.975 - the line last week because I hugged Brad Fulton, our guest speaker, at the end of his talk. So the net 00:04:11.975 --> 00:04:18.494 - result is it has been determined that we need to be observed. Maybe I need to be observed. 00:04:19.970 --> 00:04:27.659 - So anyway, Shilpa there in the back monitoring my behavior. But don't be concerned about this. Seriously, 00:04:27.659 --> 00:04:34.912 - as we heard last week, they have observed countless organizations, including the Bloomington Rotary 00:04:34.912 --> 00:04:42.383 - Foundation. And at a board level of the club, we talked about it a couple of months ago and said, yes, 00:04:42.383 --> 00:04:49.854 - we're willing to do this. So anyway, Shilpa or one of our colleagues will be here at Tuesday meetings. 00:04:49.954 --> 00:04:57.087 - They'll probably sit down on some kid meeting meetings. They'll probably be at board meetings. So now 00:04:57.087 --> 00:05:04.500 - that we've welcomed her, forget that she's here, and business as usual. Tyler, if I can get you to stand. 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:11.983 - So Tyler Martin Nichols is our Zoom and audio producer. And Tyler is still looking for the right full-time 00:05:11.983 --> 00:05:19.326 - employment. Main areas of interest are arts administration, student affairs, program project management, 00:05:19.874 --> 00:05:28.908 - Faculty support, university governance. Tyler has master's degrees from both O'Neill and Jacobs. If 00:05:28.908 --> 00:05:38.755 - you have an interest in learning more, see Tyler or see me. I'll vouch for Tyler. He's personable, reliable, 00:05:38.755 --> 00:05:44.446 - very quiet way, very competent. He'd do a good job for anyone. 00:05:45.250 --> 00:05:53.277 - Last thing, it's been brought to my attention that several of us have received spam emails from people 00:05:53.277 --> 00:06:01.304 - we know in Rotary, special party invitation. So if you get that, just be very cautious. Let's see. Has 00:06:01.304 --> 00:06:09.332 - Jeff Richardson walked in yet? Yes. Jeff, are you ready for your reflection? All right. Jeff will give 00:06:09.332 --> 00:06:11.358 - our reflection for today. 00:06:26.402 --> 00:06:34.353 - Good afternoon. Reflecting on Lee Hamilton's life reminded me of the Jimmy Stewart character in Mr. 00:06:34.353 --> 00:06:42.463 - Smith Goes to Washington, a man of intellect, integrity, eagerness, kindness, tenacity, and humility. 00:06:42.463 --> 00:06:50.415 - And he never lost that competitive edge he had from being a top basketball player in Evansville and 00:06:50.415 --> 00:06:55.742 - at DePaul. How fortunate we were to have Lee in Congress from 1965 00:06:56.002 --> 00:07:03.764 - until 1999, then at the Wilson Center, a nonpartisan think tank in DC, and the Center for Congress at 00:07:03.764 --> 00:07:11.754 - IU, coupled with his teaching at the Hamilton Lugar School of Global and International Studies. He never 00:07:11.754 --> 00:07:19.440 - stopped serving the public's interest. In fact, his son reported he took his father to his IU office 00:07:19.440 --> 00:07:24.158 - the day before he died. First, Leonard reminded me of beloved 00:07:24.674 --> 00:07:33.236 - Charlotte, who was from her bed, still doing lobbying the day before she died. Before I share some personal 00:07:33.236 --> 00:07:41.243 - reflections, let's visit how just a few national media and local media characterize Lee's passing. A 00:07:41.243 --> 00:07:49.805 - life of service and global leadership, the Midwestern congressman from Washington who should be remembered, 00:07:49.805 --> 00:07:53.214 - a compromiser who operates above the fray, 00:07:53.890 --> 00:08:00.733 - powering figure in national politics with ties to IU, Lee Hamilton, a legacy of honor. Beyond these 00:08:00.733 --> 00:08:07.576 - and many other headlines, I also connected with some old friends and reminisced about Lee. Speaking 00:08:07.576 --> 00:08:14.761 - with Wayne and Emily Vance is always entertaining and informative. Wayne worked for Lee both in Congress 00:08:14.761 --> 00:08:22.494 - and the Center for Congress for over 40 years. Wayne stated that Lee's passion for public service never wavered. 00:08:22.658 --> 00:08:29.731 - As much as Lee enjoyed his work, he loved coming back to southern Indiana and meeting with his constituents. 00:08:29.731 --> 00:08:36.414 - He would return to Indiana 41 weekends every year. Wayne explained that Lee felt it kept him grounded, 00:08:36.414 --> 00:08:43.097 - and his outreach was not limited to folks back home. For example, he went to see the troops in Vietnam 00:08:43.097 --> 00:08:48.158 - in the mid-1960s and to Iraq during the war there to hear directly from them. 00:08:49.186 --> 00:08:56.491 - And of course, he traveled the world, meeting world leaders, always listening and learning. Wayne added 00:08:56.491 --> 00:09:03.795 - that Lee believed that his greatest legislative achievement was a passage of Medicare. As a 75-year-old 00:09:03.795 --> 00:09:11.029 - recipient, thank you, Lee. Lee also counted his tenure on the 9-11 Commission as a ringing success and 00:09:11.029 --> 00:09:18.334 - top-life achievement post-Congress. One pundit characterized Lee as a quiet man who made himself heard. 00:09:19.074 --> 00:09:26.704 - So true. I had several specific memories about Lee during my life, but due to time, we'll share just 00:09:26.704 --> 00:09:34.409 - a few. When campaigning as an IU student volunteer for various Democrats in 1970, that's when I first 00:09:34.409 --> 00:09:42.266 - heard Lee speak, very impressed. After Frank McCloskey got elected in 1971, Lee would drop by City Hall 00:09:42.266 --> 00:09:48.158 - to see the mayor, but also make a point of walking the halls to visit others. 00:09:48.418 --> 00:09:55.014 - 1970s, when I was on the city council, he would stop by, always asking how things were going, how are 00:09:55.014 --> 00:10:01.675 - we doing in Washington, and what should we be doing? Of course, he was a regular at all the Democratic 00:10:01.675 --> 00:10:08.141 - events in southern Indiana, and along with Birch Bayh, who incidentally, helped get elected in 1962 00:10:08.141 --> 00:10:14.867 - as a chair of the Bartholomew Democrats, he was a crowd favorite. Bayh once... This is Birch Bayh, once 00:10:14.867 --> 00:10:15.966 - famous, he said, 00:10:16.066 --> 00:10:21.846 - If I could ask God, one favorite would be to have a whole bunch of more Lee Hamiltons, the 00:10:21.846 --> 00:10:28.388 - perfect congressman. When Frank McCloskey was elected to Congress in 1982, I was honored, no, actually 00:10:28.388 --> 00:10:34.994 - thrilled to be part of Frank's team to get his new office off the ground. During my three months there, 00:10:34.994 --> 00:10:41.155 - the most regular visitor was Lee, sometimes a few times a day. Always upbeat, joyful, connected, 00:10:41.155 --> 00:10:46.046 - and eager. He would ask staff how they were doing and if we needed anything. 00:10:46.306 --> 00:10:53.757 - He knew no strangers. Fast forward to the early 1990s in Indianapolis. I was working for then-Governor 00:10:53.757 --> 00:11:01.064 - Evan By and the State House. One afternoon, there was a lunch panel with Lee Hamilton and Dick Lugar 00:11:01.064 --> 00:11:08.298 - about world affairs. It was breathtaking. Each spoke about meetings they had had with world leaders 00:11:08.298 --> 00:11:14.302 - and named them in the topic and did so with ease and not a hint of self-promotion. 00:11:14.978 --> 00:11:21.908 - So Lugar would say when I was meeting, and some of it was reflecting back, some of it was current, when 00:11:21.908 --> 00:11:29.104 - I was meeting with Gorbachev last week, I don't know, whatever, and then not to tip for a tap, but Hamilton 00:11:29.104 --> 00:11:35.768 - would say, yes, and I remember that when I was talking with Prime Minister Thatcher. And I just sat 00:11:35.768 --> 00:11:39.166 - there and I said, these two people, and they're so 00:11:39.298 --> 00:11:47.106 - not pretentious, not self-promoters, and talking about world affairs, and here they are, both from Indiana. 00:11:47.106 --> 00:11:54.768 - I mean, I was actually moved. I still am, that these two giants were from Indiana and were so compatible. 00:11:54.768 --> 00:12:02.504 - They sometimes would finish each other's sentences, and they were all civil, gracious, and kind, real-life 00:12:02.504 --> 00:12:06.046 - role models and real giants on the global stage. 00:12:07.170 --> 00:12:13.959 - It wasn't until very recently that I learned that Lee and Dick had been friends since 1967 when Dick 00:12:13.959 --> 00:12:21.150 - was running for mayor. As one pundit would wisely say, trust, respect, and integrity make change possible. 00:12:21.150 --> 00:12:28.141 - This honesty and wisdom was also the basis for Lee and Dick earlier receiving the Medal of Freedom from 00:12:28.141 --> 00:12:35.198 - President Obama. Lee's final column, just published a week ago, entitled Congress Needs More Friendships 00:12:35.618 --> 00:12:42.631 - Why, Lee asked, to reestablish Congress's ability to assert itself as a robust and effective branch 00:12:42.631 --> 00:12:49.784 - of government. He continued, you need to develop relationships on trust to do more than just put your 00:12:49.784 --> 00:12:57.077 - name on a bill. He concluded, members will have to join together in friendships and transcend the usual 00:12:57.077 --> 00:13:03.038 - workday. It's all about friendships, about service above self. And I thank you, Lee. 00:13:03.362 --> 00:13:17.823 - for a lifetime of public service, you will be deeply missed. Thank you, Jeff. Well done. So celebration 00:13:17.823 --> 00:13:33.118 - of service. You may remember that just a few weeks ago, we finished our district grant project for this year. 00:13:33.346 --> 00:13:41.251 - meals on wheels. We had two phases. And then the cycle begins again. And I want to thank for next year's 00:13:41.251 --> 00:13:49.080 - district grant in order to qualify, each club has to have two Rotarians participate in a one hour phone 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:56.985 - call in the month of January. And Michelle Cohen and Sarah Laughlin did that for our club. I think Sarah 00:13:56.985 --> 00:14:02.782 - has been on as many calls as anyone. She can probably recite it from memory. 00:14:03.010 --> 00:14:14.543 - but it's one of the requirements. And in order to do it, you become eligible for a $6,000 grant. 00:14:14.543 --> 00:14:25.958 - So thank you, Michelle and Sarah. And now I'd like to ask Jeremy Graham to come up and join me, 00:14:25.958 --> 00:14:30.238 - if you would. Stand on either side. 00:14:33.026 --> 00:14:39.797 - So a native of Gary, Indiana, Jeremy Graham has been a Bloomington resident for almost 14 years. Jeremy 00:14:39.797 --> 00:14:46.308 - and his wife, Anisha, were high school sweethearts and have been together as a couple for 16 years. 00:14:46.308 --> 00:14:53.080 - They have a six-year-old son, and they're expecting a newborn son any day now, which is why I suggested 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:59.786 - to Jeremy that you can go ahead and leave your phone on. And if all of a sudden I see you dart out the 00:14:59.786 --> 00:15:00.958 - door, all's good. 00:15:01.282 --> 00:15:07.978 - Jeremy is a full-time realtor here in Bloomington. He's the team lead for the Century 21 Sheets Graham 00:15:07.978 --> 00:15:14.479 - team. Anisha works with Jeremy. The two of them love to collaboratively guide, navigate, and assist 00:15:14.479 --> 00:15:20.980 - buyers, sellers, and investors through real estate transactions. In the community, Jeremy serves as 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:27.677 - the membership vice chair of the NAACP Monroe County branch, serves on the welcoming committee for the 00:15:27.677 --> 00:15:29.822 - Bloomington Chamber of Commerce, 00:15:30.434 --> 00:15:38.885 - And he's also a shuttle bus driver for City Church, where he transports IU students to and from church 00:15:38.885 --> 00:15:47.336 - services. For fun, Jeremy enjoys spending quality time with his family, golfing with friends, building 00:15:47.336 --> 00:15:55.787 - relationships with people. Jeremy joins our Rotary Club as an NAACP organizational member, joining Jim 00:15:55.787 --> 00:16:00.382 - Sims, Jimmy Torrey, and Patrick Smith. Welcome, Jeremy. 00:16:00.738 --> 00:16:17.948 - Okay, we have time for an abbreviated membership section today. So today's quiz, we have lots of Rotarians 00:16:17.948 --> 00:16:30.494 - that exercise in different ways. Many of them work out at the Southeast YMCA. 00:16:31.458 --> 00:16:40.060 - But here's a list of four Rotarians. And one of these Rotarians does not exercise at the Bloomington 00:16:40.060 --> 00:16:48.662 - Southeast YMCA. And your choices are Rex Hillary, David Wright, Tracy Yovanovich, Steve Engel. So if 00:16:48.662 --> 00:16:57.349 - you think Rex Hillary is a Rotarian who does not work out at the Bloomington Southeast Y, put up your 00:16:57.349 --> 00:17:01.182 - hand and do the same online. Boy, no takers. 00:17:02.082 --> 00:17:10.633 - All right, how about David Wright? If you think David Wright is the one. All right, we have a few. Tracy 00:17:10.633 --> 00:17:19.022 - Ivanovich, and I will qualify, Tracy's on a cruise now, so we're talking about when she's home. If you 00:17:19.022 --> 00:17:27.736 - think Tracy is the one who does not work out at the Southeast Y, put up your hand. We have a few. Finally, 00:17:27.736 --> 00:17:29.854 - if you think Steve Engel, 00:17:29.954 --> 00:17:38.956 - is the one who does not work out. And I see one. All right. Well, if you guessed Rex Hillary, 00:17:38.956 --> 00:17:48.534 - you are wrong. Rex participates regularly in YMCA classes. Here's a picture of Rex from a few years 00:17:48.534 --> 00:17:58.398 - ago. Rex is front left. And on the background, you can also see Mike Wade and Gus Juskalis. All right. 00:17:59.874 --> 00:18:07.469 - If you guessed David right, you would be right. David enjoys hiking and biking, but he lives 00:18:07.469 --> 00:18:16.452 - near Martinsville. So it'd be a long way for him to work out at Southeast Y. David has done some reflections. 00:18:16.452 --> 00:18:24.781 - He also, we had a club session with David as a speaker. He is our club puppeteer. Tracy Ivanovich. If 00:18:24.781 --> 00:18:27.966 - you guessed Tracy, you would be wrong. 00:18:28.226 --> 00:18:35.727 - Tracy has been a runner for many years. Now, she is very much a walker. If any of you have ever tried 00:18:35.727 --> 00:18:43.449 - to keep up with Tracy as she goes around the wide track, good luck with that. Here's a picture, a couple 00:18:43.449 --> 00:18:51.171 - of us here on July 1st. Tracy is the more attractive individual on the left. And finally, if you guessed 00:18:51.171 --> 00:18:53.598 - Steve Engel, you would be wrong. 00:18:53.890 --> 00:19:02.426 - Steve is a regular weightlifter at the Y. So he's there exercising on a regular basis. So we did pretty 00:19:02.426 --> 00:19:10.880 - well. I would say for those who voted correctly picked David Wright. Rotary International, seven areas 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:19.498 - of focus. And February is Peacebuilding and Conflict Prevention Month. We're going to skip Happy Dollars 00:19:19.498 --> 00:19:22.206 - today, but we have a short rodeo 00:19:22.402 --> 00:19:47.173 - rotary video to show. It's very difficult to even define peace. It goes beyond, of course, the absence 00:19:47.173 --> 00:19:51.742 - of war. It's about 00:19:51.842 --> 00:20:04.471 - social equity. It's about living and feeling respected where you live. And it's about showing this respect 00:20:04.471 --> 00:20:16.274 - to every person. Respect to every person. As a humanitarian organization, peace is a cornerstone of 00:20:16.274 --> 00:20:18.398 - Rotary's mission. 00:20:18.594 --> 00:20:26.891 - We believe when people work to create peace in their communities, that change can have a global effect. 00:20:26.891 --> 00:20:35.187 - Our Peace Center alumni, our dedicated peace builders, are leading the charge for that change. In Peace 00:20:35.187 --> 00:20:43.404 - Fellowship, you feel support of a very powerful organization, which is Rotary. The organization of the 00:20:43.404 --> 00:20:48.350 - program is unique because it is not purely academic. You meet 00:20:48.706 --> 00:20:56.501 - a lot of people coming from different parts of the world. So every new person brings you new perspectives, 00:20:56.501 --> 00:21:04.150 - new ideas. They come from those conflict areas or they are interested in working in those conflict areas 00:21:04.150 --> 00:21:11.580 - to minimize the effect of conflict. Their long-term role can be also in building mutual understanding 00:21:11.580 --> 00:21:17.918 - between the conflicting communities to make sure that future conflicts will not arise. 00:21:18.850 --> 00:21:27.594 - Peace building is really a kind of work. Mediate, transform conflict, stop conflict, create an environment 00:21:27.594 --> 00:21:36.175 - of peace, to connect people who made a choice to create these environments of peace. Try to bring people 00:21:36.175 --> 00:21:44.510 - from across the divide together in a way that they can see that the other doesn't have an enemy face. 00:21:44.802 --> 00:21:52.226 - bringing people together across everything and to do whatever it is that they're interested in. People 00:21:52.226 --> 00:21:59.505 - can come together to play board games and people can come together to learn how to tango. This means 00:21:59.505 --> 00:22:03.902 - that peace of course, ideally speaking, is a sort of desire. 00:22:04.226 --> 00:22:11.130 - but it's also a strong need we have in this world in order to offer people opportunity to thrive and 00:22:11.130 --> 00:22:18.034 - have an environment where human potential could flourish. There will always be times of conflict and 00:22:18.034 --> 00:22:25.143 - that's where the peace builders' role exists. They will try always to increase the mutual understanding 00:22:25.143 --> 00:22:28.766 - to make sure that those conflicts will not escalate. 00:22:28.898 --> 00:22:36.506 - So there is a strength that is coming from their commitment and dedication, their competencies and skills. 00:22:36.506 --> 00:22:43.758 - And this perhaps is going to fight against violence and fight against situations where peace is truly 00:22:43.758 --> 00:22:50.868 - missing. If people stop believing that it's possible, then it cannot happen. One of my worst quotes 00:22:50.868 --> 00:22:58.334 - is, if you want to have peace, you should prepare for war. I hate that quote. If you want to have peace, 00:22:58.690 --> 00:23:12.995 - you should prepare for peace. Alan Barker will introduce our speaker. Thank you very much, Steve. Hi, 00:23:12.995 --> 00:23:25.758 - everybody. It's great to see you. And that was an amazing video. It really was incredible. 00:23:25.858 --> 00:23:32.167 - And within the theme of peace, our talk today will illuminate a completely different area. And so I'm 00:23:32.167 --> 00:23:38.352 - delighted to introduce our very own Rotary member as guest speaker, Professor Scott J. Shackelford. 00:23:38.352 --> 00:23:44.599 - And I'm going to say a few things about him. This amazing individual who you probably all know about 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:49.918 - is a Provost Professor of Business Law and Ethics at the IU Kelly School of Business. 00:23:50.594 --> 00:23:57.561 - He's also the director of the Center for Applied Cybersecurity Research and helps lead the Ostrom workshops, 00:23:57.561 --> 00:24:04.401 - work on cybersecurity and internet governance. So he has a number of different roles at Indiana University 00:24:04.401 --> 00:24:11.049 - and makes a huge impact. In short, he spends his time thinking about and helping us shape how societies 00:24:11.049 --> 00:24:17.697 - can navigate the risks and opportunities of our increasingly digital world. Scott is one of the authors 00:24:17.697 --> 00:24:20.062 - of Securing Democracies in an Age of 00:24:20.162 --> 00:24:26.661 - Instability, a timely and important book that examines how democratic institutions are being challenged 00:24:26.661 --> 00:24:32.910 - by cyber security, threats, disinformation, and rapid technological change. So the title of Scott's 00:24:32.910 --> 00:24:39.472 - talk today, Securing Democracies in the Digital Age, could not be more relevant and present in our world 00:24:39.472 --> 00:24:40.222 - these days. 00:24:40.898 --> 00:24:46.684 - At a moment marked by political polarization, geopolitical tensions, rapid advances in artificial 00:24:46.684 --> 00:24:52.824 - intelligence, and boy, do I know about that this morning, I had a bunch of conversations that have sort 00:24:52.824 --> 00:24:59.201 - of rocked me back on my heels, and widespread concerns about misinformation and cybersecurity interference, 00:24:59.201 --> 00:25:05.282 - questions about how democracies can remain resilient and trustworthy feel especially urgent. So, we're 00:25:05.282 --> 00:25:07.998 - very fortunate to have one of our own, Scott, 00:25:08.162 --> 00:25:15.789 - To help us make sense of these challenges, please join me in offering a warm rotary welcome to one of 00:25:15.789 --> 00:25:23.492 - our own, Professor Scott Shackelford. Well, thank you so much. Good afternoon, everybody. How are you? 00:25:23.492 --> 00:25:30.970 - I have to say we timed this spectacularly, okay? So today, if you didn't, if you weren't aware, now 00:25:30.970 --> 00:25:33.886 - you will be, it is Safer Internet Day. 00:25:34.594 --> 00:25:39.848 - I know, I know. Every day, ideally, should be Safe for Internet Day, but it's actually today. So a lot 00:25:39.848 --> 00:25:45.256 - of reasons to, I think, have this timely discussion right now. And actually, as part of Safe for Internet 00:25:45.256 --> 00:25:50.510 - Day, I was giving a keynote for a conference in New Delhi earlier today. And you know the title of the 00:25:50.510 --> 00:25:55.917 - conference? The Cyber Peace Summit, the Global Cyber Peace Summit. They had more than 70 countries there. 00:25:55.917 --> 00:26:01.120 - So a little bit about what I'll be talking to you about today is very much a global movement. So it's 00:26:01.120 --> 00:26:03.518 - not all going to be doom and gloom, I promise. 00:26:03.682 --> 00:26:09.674 - It's a beautiful day outside. We'll try to let some of that light shine on this topic as well. Thanks 00:26:09.674 --> 00:26:15.608 - so much again for the opportunity and for that very warm welcome. It's great to be back. I wanted to 00:26:15.608 --> 00:26:21.482 - just do a few things upfront per usual. There's too much content to get through, so I'd rather have 00:26:21.482 --> 00:26:28.062 - time to get through discussions about especially a topic on all of our minds is this, but a few things upfront. 00:26:28.194 --> 00:26:33.289 - One, if you haven't been over to the Ostrom workshop in a little while, come check us out. There's a 00:26:33.289 --> 00:26:38.334 - lot of exciting stuff going on, including with regards, Alan, as you were saying, to AI governance. 00:26:38.434 --> 00:26:43.706 - tech governance, as well as, of course, environmental challenges, you name it. We just did a joint session 00:26:43.706 --> 00:26:48.978 - with the Environmental Resilience Institute this last Friday on the environmental impacts of data centers, 00:26:48.978 --> 00:26:53.906 - for example, here in Indiana and around the world. Really awesome talks every Monday and Wednesday, 00:26:53.906 --> 00:26:58.833 - a lot of ways to get engaged, and we still have copies of that children's book, which I should have 00:26:58.833 --> 00:26:59.966 - brought with me today. 00:27:00.066 --> 00:27:04.577 - But if anybody wants to follow me over, we still have Lynn's on Common Life, which actually they're 00:27:04.577 --> 00:27:09.088 - doing a teacher training workshop on that in a couple weeks here for civics classes and things like 00:27:09.088 --> 00:27:11.614 - that. So her work is getting out there, which is great. 00:27:12.482 --> 00:27:17.642 - The Center for Applied Cybersecurity Research still does a lot of work on election security, but also 00:27:17.642 --> 00:27:22.953 - more broadly looking at local critical infrastructure protection. Real hot topic these days, which could 00:27:22.953 --> 00:27:28.265 - be a separate talk, is water. Water utilities in particular are a very unfortunate soft target. So we're 00:27:28.265 --> 00:27:33.475 - working with a lot of those around the state and beyond to see how we can come together and build some 00:27:33.475 --> 00:27:34.942 - resilience in those systems. 00:27:36.418 --> 00:27:42.213 - Okay, and here's some of the work on Cyber Peace. Bit of a trilogy, I'm still waiting on the movie deal. 00:27:42.213 --> 00:27:47.787 - Matt Damon, I mean, come on, you're done with the Odyssey, this is the natural next step. So I'll be 00:27:47.787 --> 00:27:53.306 - peppering in a few insights from that work on Cyber Peace, but again, the focus is gonna be on this 00:27:53.306 --> 00:27:58.383 - brand new book, and it just came out last month on securing democracies in the digital age. 00:27:58.383 --> 00:28:04.068 - And that book, I'm happy to say, it's published with Cambridge Press, but it's open access. So anybody 00:28:04.068 --> 00:28:06.110 - around the world can freely download 00:28:06.178 --> 00:28:12.067 - access the contents, no paywalls, nothing like that. I wouldn't be really preaching the gospel of the 00:28:12.067 --> 00:28:18.359 - commons if it was any other way, but I still wanted to flag that, right? And kudos upfront to my co-editors, 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:24.248 - Frédéric Doucet from Paris 8 and Chris Ankersen from NYU. There was a slate of amazing scholars and 00:28:24.248 --> 00:28:30.367 - practitioners all around the world that were involved with this project. The focus of the book, if you're 00:28:30.367 --> 00:28:35.390 - interested, was basically three geopolitical hotspots. So we looked at Eastern Europe, 00:28:35.554 --> 00:28:42.124 - We looked at Middle East, North Africa, and we looked at East Asia and South Asia to see how these advancing 00:28:42.124 --> 00:28:48.333 - and emerging democracies are dealing with a whole array of challenges, as you just heard in the intro, 00:28:48.333 --> 00:28:54.541 - right? So threats to election infrastructure, how we manage misinformation, disinformation, deepfakes. 00:28:54.541 --> 00:29:00.870 - And a lot of the US focus was on how we, as in the US, are managing those threats from abroad. We didn't 00:29:00.870 --> 00:29:02.558 - focus on homegrown threats. 00:29:02.722 --> 00:29:08.523 - We can take this in lots of directions. I grant you there's rabbit holes upon rabbit holes that we can 00:29:08.523 --> 00:29:13.705 - go down, but for purposes of the book and my presentation, just know that it's more of that 00:29:13.705 --> 00:29:19.337 - global perspective. Okay, so very briefly, when we approach this topic of protecting our elections, 00:29:19.337 --> 00:29:24.350 - it's good to think about it first at the 30,000 foot level, then we'll drill down, okay? 00:29:24.482 --> 00:29:30.672 - Critical infrastructure, what the heck is that? Here in the US, we have 16 critical infrastructure sectors, 00:29:30.672 --> 00:29:36.575 - and you see them all labeled up there. They run the gambit. Think about everything that's really vital 00:29:36.575 --> 00:29:42.593 - that if it goes down, you're having a really bad day, right? So healthcare, telecom, right? Agriculture, 00:29:42.593 --> 00:29:48.553 - okay? Elections is one of those systems. And the US, there's only a few countries around the world that 00:29:48.553 --> 00:29:53.310 - specify that, but we're one of them actually, and that's been the case since 2017. 00:29:53.602 --> 00:29:59.643 - So that means that organizations historically, like DHS, have a bigger role in safeguarding election 00:29:59.643 --> 00:30:05.982 - infrastructure and systems. I just wanted to mention that up front. This has been a long-running problem. 00:30:05.982 --> 00:30:12.382 - We see that in the elections context and more broadly. There have been groups that have tried to undermine 00:30:12.546 --> 00:30:17.814 - election outcomes and frankly just confidence in elections dating way back, believe it or not, if you 00:30:17.814 --> 00:30:23.134 - guys remember, the South African elections that actually elected Nelson Mandela in the early 90s. That 00:30:23.134 --> 00:30:28.350 - was one of the first documented attempts of using some early internet worms to interfere with voting 00:30:28.350 --> 00:30:33.566 - machines, right? So that was a little while ago now, more than 30 years. Of course, as was mentioned 00:30:33.566 --> 00:30:36.510 - these days, the technologies, the techniques have really 00:30:36.674 --> 00:30:41.553 - advanced quite a bit in some scary ways, and we're all racing to catch up. So again, I'll be focusing 00:30:41.553 --> 00:30:46.385 - mostly on some of that stuff. There's been a variety of attacks on these different types of critical 00:30:46.385 --> 00:30:51.552 - infrastructure over the years. We can talk more about it, but suffice it to say, everybody's been breached, 00:30:51.552 --> 00:30:56.335 - right? And there's this old joke that if you weren't, if you think you haven't been breached, well, 00:30:56.335 --> 00:31:01.167 - you just haven't found out yet, right? I mean, why do we have to tell us here in Monroe County even, 00:31:01.167 --> 00:31:06.238 - right? Like it happens. It happens with some regularity. And of course, IU is no stranger to that either, 00:31:06.690 --> 00:31:13.133 - Globally, there are some big trends that are feeding this, right? So there's a lot of geopolitics lurking 00:31:13.133 --> 00:31:19.271 - in the background, as always. Unfortunately, Ukraine has been a testbed for both information warfare 00:31:19.271 --> 00:31:25.410 - and cyber warfare since their elections in 2013, right? So we've seen that, of course, most recently 00:31:25.410 --> 00:31:27.902 - in the international armed conflict, but 00:31:28.034 --> 00:31:33.860 - They've also pioneered, as I'll talk about in just a minute, some responses for how you get ahead of 00:31:33.860 --> 00:31:39.628 - disinformation and deep fakes. They basically have a version of the PBS NewsHour, where every night 00:31:39.628 --> 00:31:45.627 - they're debunking the kind of fake news or the deep fake story of the day in real time, right? And it's 00:31:45.627 --> 00:31:47.934 - different when you think about Beijing. 00:31:48.194 --> 00:31:53.942 - Okay, so in the book, we try to do this with some granularity, figuring out how different adversaries 00:31:53.942 --> 00:31:59.747 - around the world who are commonly trying to undermine trust collectively in the democratic process are 00:31:59.747 --> 00:32:04.030 - approaching these, right? You see there that Russia versus China's approach 00:32:04.162 --> 00:32:09.601 - could not be more different. They're both at opposite ends of this spectrum, right? One is trying to 00:32:09.601 --> 00:32:15.255 - sow chaos, confusion, right? The other is really trying to plant some seeds to undermine long-term trust 00:32:15.255 --> 00:32:20.640 - in the stability of these systems, such as by sowing divisions, but also more broadly. And I'll say 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:26.295 - we're not unique in the U.S. in that regard. These campaigns have been playing out all around the world. 00:32:26.295 --> 00:32:31.841 - I promise it's not all doom and gloom. We're gonna get there. There are a lot of good stuff, good work 00:32:31.841 --> 00:32:33.726 - that's being done here in Indiana. 00:32:33.858 --> 00:32:39.408 - and more broadly to get a better handle on some of these challenges. Some of them are just frankly voting 00:32:39.408 --> 00:32:44.697 - machines, right? Like here in Monroe County, how do we vote? You better remember that usually it's a 00:32:44.697 --> 00:32:49.985 - touch screen and there's like a little, or you have a little optical scan paper ballot that you scan 00:32:49.985 --> 00:32:55.274 - in, that you scan in, right? Depending on the place. Those are gonna be phased out, but anybody know 00:32:55.274 --> 00:33:00.510 - when they're gonna be phased out by? The Indiana legislature passed this law a couple of years ago. 00:33:00.510 --> 00:33:01.662 - 2027 is our deadline. 00:33:01.826 --> 00:33:07.042 - All right. So not super forward leaning. You'll see a map in a second that's going to give you some 00:33:07.042 --> 00:33:12.414 - more details on that. Other states, you know, a bit further along and a part that's driven by the fact 00:33:12.414 --> 00:33:17.682 - that there is problems as you see here in the software ecosystem supporting those different machines 00:33:17.682 --> 00:33:23.315 - and just more broadly to the supply chain. We've been doing a lot of work on how you rethink accountability 00:33:23.315 --> 00:33:28.688 - for software. So if you're Microsoft, there's something called Patch Tuesday, right? You put out a new 00:33:28.688 --> 00:33:29.470 - product today, 00:33:29.602 --> 00:33:35.003 - If it causes a problem, you patch it tomorrow. And who's responsible for all the damage that happens 00:33:35.003 --> 00:33:40.617 - in the meantime? Maybe you remember the CrowdStrike incident a couple years ago, where there was a patch 00:33:40.617 --> 00:33:46.124 - that went out, caused a world of hurt if you were flying that day, but also more broadly, the NHS, for 00:33:46.124 --> 00:33:51.579 - example, systems went down. But the question has always been lurking is, well, why aren't we treating 00:33:51.579 --> 00:33:57.086 - tech companies liable for all that? We're treating them with kid gloves. Just as of last month, Europe 00:33:57.186 --> 00:34:02.788 - has extended their product's liability directive to software. That's a fancy legal way for saying, if 00:34:02.788 --> 00:34:08.334 - there's a bug in code that leads to real world harm, now in Europe, you get to hold the tech company 00:34:08.334 --> 00:34:13.991 - liable, strict liability. I was involved with a software liability summit at the White House. This was 00:34:13.991 --> 00:34:19.647 - a while ago now, mid-24, where we were talking about the same thing, should the US follow suit or not. 00:34:19.647 --> 00:34:25.469 - That's a game change. We're starting to see that with things like social media for kids. We're not seeing 00:34:25.469 --> 00:34:26.622 - it more broadly yet. 00:34:26.914 --> 00:34:32.238 - But still, it's worth kind of keeping that broader scope in mind. And lastly, these are some of the 00:34:32.238 --> 00:34:37.828 - big trends feeding into all this. I'll say a bit more about AI, but honestly, you name it, each of these 00:34:37.828 --> 00:34:43.205 - is important for thinking about ways that we can secure democracies. Even internet access from space 00:34:43.205 --> 00:34:48.529 - is really taking off. Forgive the pun. We're actually launching a space cybersecurity digital badge 00:34:48.529 --> 00:34:53.374 - program later today here at IU, which is pretty cool. So there's a lot of neat work there. 00:34:53.794 --> 00:34:59.235 - And again, more broadly, there's ways to think about this from more of a peace perspective as a shared 00:34:59.235 --> 00:35:04.730 - responsibility. And there's different ways to approach that. Okay, given time, let's focus on democracy 00:35:04.730 --> 00:35:10.066 - here. So in the book, we're trying to look at this from a variety of different perspectives. There's 00:35:10.066 --> 00:35:15.613 - this grid that gives you a bit of a flavor for how we think about democratic resilience. Yes, it's about 00:35:15.613 --> 00:35:20.949 - protecting election infrastructure. So the voting machines, the tabulation systems that count up the 00:35:20.949 --> 00:35:23.326 - votes, but it's also a much broader problem. 00:35:23.714 --> 00:35:29.158 - If it was that easy, we would have gotten ahead of it a while ago. So this just kind of gives you a 00:35:29.158 --> 00:35:34.764 - flavor of that. You'll see a specific when we dig into the case study about what went down in 2016 and 00:35:34.764 --> 00:35:40.426 - thereafter. This was a fun one. I did a separate book, a history book, called Forks in the Digital Road 00:35:40.426 --> 00:35:46.141 - that looked back at the history of the internet and cybersecurity. There's been hacking going on a long, 00:35:46.141 --> 00:35:51.966 - long time, including, as you all know, hacking of elections, depending on how you like to define the term. 00:35:52.098 --> 00:35:58.382 - Some cities, some states are notorious for this kind of thing. Of course, what's different is the scale 00:35:58.382 --> 00:36:04.786 - that's possible by undermining the shared systems that all of this infrastructure relies upon. And that's 00:36:04.786 --> 00:36:11.070 - one of the things we're focusing on here. Like we said, here in Monroe County, mostly we're using these 00:36:11.070 --> 00:36:17.475 - optical scan paper ballots. Now, help me. We'll make it a bit more interactive because I know it's middle 00:36:17.475 --> 00:36:20.254 - of the afternoon. I need some coffee as well. 00:36:20.418 --> 00:36:27.395 - From a security perspective, what do we think? Which of these is going to be best? Should we go back 00:36:27.395 --> 00:36:34.302 - to those hanging chads? Oh man, those are the good old days. Great Halloween costumes, though. What 00:36:34.302 --> 00:36:41.625 - do you think? From a security perspective, you want to have as many layers of authentication as possible, 00:36:41.625 --> 00:36:47.358 - right? So you can double check the results in close selections. What do you think? 00:36:49.218 --> 00:36:54.530 - Okay, okay, okay. So in other words, if you have some kind of system where there can be a paper audit 00:36:54.530 --> 00:36:59.947 - after the fact, that can build confidence and ultimately trust in the democratic process, right? What's 00:36:59.947 --> 00:37:05.311 - the problem if you don't have the paper trail? Like a lot of jurisdictions still don't around Indiana. 00:37:05.311 --> 00:37:10.623 - Well, in a close election, or if there's intelligence after the fact that in some way, shape or form, 00:37:10.623 --> 00:37:16.248 - it was undermined, it's tough to go back forensically and double check those results. So the gold standard, 00:37:16.248 --> 00:37:17.758 - long story short these days, 00:37:18.370 --> 00:37:24.189 - is what's called a risk limiting audit. So you have a jurisdiction, I'll give you a flavor for what 00:37:24.189 --> 00:37:30.183 - this looks like nationwide. So you pick a state where they're all green. You institute a risk limiting 00:37:30.183 --> 00:37:36.177 - audit and you take a statistical sample of the votes cast and then you compare it against the reported 00:37:36.177 --> 00:37:41.182 - results just to make sure they're consistent. Colorado was the pioneer in doing that. 00:37:41.314 --> 00:37:46.853 - Then Rhode Island, we have a half a dozen states that have these laws on the books. Indiana's going 00:37:46.853 --> 00:37:52.558 - in that direction. There's some legislation around a risk-limiting audit, but again, we don't have the 00:37:52.558 --> 00:37:58.152 - underlying tech yet to really make it possible statewide. When you look at this map, it looks pretty 00:37:58.152 --> 00:38:03.968 - different from 2016. So some states have really gotten on the ball. So Georgia, back in 2016, was bright 00:38:03.968 --> 00:38:05.630 - red. All right. Pennsylvania. 00:38:06.050 --> 00:38:12.057 - bright red. In other words, some core swing states had some technology that was problematic. There have 00:38:12.057 --> 00:38:17.948 - been groups that were able to hack into some of these voting machines that were still running Windows 00:38:17.948 --> 00:38:23.840 - XP just to show what was possible. It's not great. That's not great. As a reminder, Windows XP hasn't 00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:29.731 - been updated since 2014. So nobody's really double checking that. So that's a problem. And we haven't 00:38:29.731 --> 00:38:34.814 - really invested in this stuff at a federal level since that 2002 Help America Vote Act. 00:38:35.010 --> 00:38:40.182 - That was, of course, in response to all the hanging chads. It was about a $4 billion investment that 00:38:40.182 --> 00:38:45.507 - went to the states, because, again, we don't have one national election, right? We have more than 3,000 00:38:45.507 --> 00:38:50.781 - local elections that get aggregated up. So it helped to purchase a lot of equipment. But back in 2002, 00:38:50.781 --> 00:38:56.157 - what was the main headache we were trying to solve? Those long lines of polling places and the confusion 00:38:56.157 --> 00:39:01.329 - around hanging chads, right? Cyber security wasn't exactly front of mind. So what did a lot of these 00:39:01.329 --> 00:39:02.814 - jurisdictions go out and do? 00:39:03.298 --> 00:39:09.426 - including in Georgia and Pennsylvania, well, they bought a lot of these handy systems where they're 00:39:09.426 --> 00:39:15.798 - just touchscreens, but without a paper trail, right? So it's that kind of technical debt that now we're 00:39:15.798 --> 00:39:21.987 - having to go back to and refresh, right? Here in the US, but also around the world. Okay, so looking 00:39:21.987 --> 00:39:28.237 - to the midterms this fall, but in 2024, you know, equally valid, this just kind of gives you a flavor 00:39:28.237 --> 00:39:32.894 - of all the different layers that the bad guys could focus on and try to sow 00:39:33.058 --> 00:39:39.482 - distrust, right, or try to manipulate some processes. So that goes all the way from voter information. 00:39:39.482 --> 00:39:45.781 - So their information we rely on platforms, right? So as you know, social media is flooded these days 00:39:45.781 --> 00:39:52.642 - with AI generated content. I mean, I think that's 80% at this point of X. I don't even know. It's ridiculous. 00:39:52.642 --> 00:39:54.014 - So what we can trust. 00:39:54.210 --> 00:40:00.422 - Who really said what? What video is legitimate? That's already become a real issue. Some states, including 00:40:00.422 --> 00:40:06.285 - Wisconsin, even Indiana, have some new laws on the books that actually attach civil penalties if you 00:40:06.285 --> 00:40:12.323 - spread disinformation or deep fakes involving candidates within a certain number of days of an election 00:40:12.323 --> 00:40:18.128 - cycle. So that's fine. That's one little aspect of this issue. Finding the perpetrators, et cetera, 00:40:18.128 --> 00:40:22.366 - is easier said than done. But that's only, obviously, one piece of this. 00:40:22.626 --> 00:40:28.253 - Again, other jurisdictions like the EU, they've gotten a lot further in this regard. There's some pretty 00:40:28.253 --> 00:40:33.719 - stiff penalties. Election rules. So these are basically where you're registered to vote. So those can 00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:39.239 - be manipulated as well. So picture like an elaborate Excel spreadsheet. If you can get access to that, 00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:44.062 - and unfortunately, there's no even state law still requiring us to encrypt all that data, 00:40:44.226 --> 00:40:49.092 - So there's still some precincts that have it unencrypted. You can imagine any kind of other 00:40:49.092 --> 00:40:54.593 - Excel spreadsheet, right? You can manipulate the cells. You can make it look like somebody's registered 00:40:54.593 --> 00:41:00.146 - to vote there when they're actually registered to vote there. That can lead to long lines, sow distrust, 00:41:00.146 --> 00:41:05.541 - and again, ultimately undermine confidence. No evidence that happened in 24, to be clear, but that is 00:41:05.541 --> 00:41:08.926 - the issue. And we know back in 2016, election rolls in Illinois 00:41:09.090 --> 00:41:14.213 - were compromised. Again, no evidence that anything was changed, but because so much of it is 00:41:14.213 --> 00:41:19.942 - still unencrypted, that's still an issue. Voting machines, we talked about. Tabulation systems are just 00:41:19.942 --> 00:41:25.616 - fancy software for adding up votes, all right? Like any software, that can be manipulated. No evidence 00:41:25.616 --> 00:41:31.180 - that happened in 24, but other democracies, like the Netherlands, have been so concerned that in one 00:41:31.180 --> 00:41:35.422 - of their last elections, they went back and hand counted every paper ballot. 00:41:36.450 --> 00:41:42.326 - They didn't have any trust in their tabulation systems because they had some intelligence that they 00:41:42.326 --> 00:41:48.319 - had been compromised. Dissemination of news is also a problem, right? So imagine what you could do if 00:41:48.319 --> 00:41:54.312 - you hacked into the AP Newswire on election day to make it look like a candidate or a party was ahead 00:41:54.312 --> 00:42:00.423 - or behind in the polls in a country like ours with multiple time zones. That could also impact turnout, 00:42:00.423 --> 00:42:05.182 - right? And also sow distrust. No evidence that's happened to the AP or otherwise 00:42:05.314 --> 00:42:10.466 - But that's still a potential headache. And we have seen that, unfortunately, in other countries like 00:42:10.466 --> 00:42:15.670 - Ukraine, in terms of news sites being targeted in that way, which gets us thinking about, well, heck, 00:42:15.670 --> 00:42:20.975 - is news critical infrastructure? That has other big First Amendment problems, right? If we do have more 00:42:20.975 --> 00:42:26.076 - of a government role there. Talked about critical infrastructure, too. So if you can snarl traffic, 00:42:26.076 --> 00:42:31.330 - if you can cause blackouts, you name it, not across the nation, but just in certain core swing cities, 00:42:31.330 --> 00:42:34.238 - certain core swing states, that can also be problematic. 00:42:34.498 --> 00:42:41.692 - right? So these broader issues can come back and lurk in this context as well. Okay, what are we doing? 00:42:41.692 --> 00:42:43.006 - We're doing a lot. 00:42:43.362 --> 00:42:49.592 - There have been some positive steps forward. One of them was in the information sharing network called 00:42:49.592 --> 00:42:55.761 - the LISAC. So basically it's an information sharing and analysis center. It allows election officials 00:42:55.761 --> 00:43:01.809 - to share information and learn from intelligence about threats in real time. We didn't have that in 00:43:01.809 --> 00:43:05.982 - 2016. Now the issue is right now DHS is in the process of unwinding. 00:43:06.082 --> 00:43:12.361 - So looking ahead to 2026 election a lot of local election officials won't have potentially as updated 00:43:12.361 --> 00:43:18.639 - information as they've grown accustomed to for the last seven years. There are some other shifts that 00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:24.856 - have played out again if we had more time we could talk about how some of the parties are responding 00:43:24.856 --> 00:43:27.134 - and how we're looking more globally. 00:43:27.394 --> 00:43:32.898 - Again, the good news is that we are working together more than has been the case in the past and that 00:43:32.898 --> 00:43:38.349 - the word is getting out, especially with a pretty wide array of democracies about some of these best 00:43:38.349 --> 00:43:44.285 - practices. So in the book, we dig into these in a little bit more detail. By and large, all these democracies 00:43:44.285 --> 00:43:46.174 - and plenty others around the world 00:43:46.274 --> 00:43:51.655 - are embracing a lot of these best practices. So a lot that had electronic voting machines are going 00:43:51.655 --> 00:43:57.197 - back to paper or involving paper at some point in the process. They're doing risk limiting audits. The 00:43:57.197 --> 00:44:02.686 - only real country that's going the opposite direction is Estonia. They still allow online voting, and 00:44:02.686 --> 00:44:08.120 - they have since the early 2000s, right? But keep in mind, this is a country pretty homogenous with a 00:44:08.120 --> 00:44:09.950 - population the size of San Diego. 00:44:10.210 --> 00:44:15.987 - So a bit of a different vibe than the United States in that regard. And they're different in other ways, 00:44:15.987 --> 00:44:21.598 - too. It's an incredible country, though, if you haven't been. All the others, right? Embracing paper. 00:44:23.586 --> 00:44:28.355 - Which just gets thinking about these other layers of the problem though, okay? So you might remember 00:44:28.355 --> 00:44:33.172 - this seems so antiquated at this point, but there was this whole like puffy jacket thing. This was an 00:44:33.172 --> 00:44:37.941 - early deep fake of the Pope that really went viral, right? And this was one of the first times like, 00:44:37.941 --> 00:44:42.238 - wow, I had no idea it's such fashion sense, right? People weren't aware of what all the... 00:44:42.434 --> 00:44:48.172 - technologies can do. If you're a kind of a relative newcomer to kind of AI and deepfakes, I think we 00:44:48.172 --> 00:44:53.853 - can send out the slides. I included some links to some really great podcasts like any Radiolab fans 00:44:53.853 --> 00:44:59.591 - out there. They went and they interviewed the original researchers from the University of Washington 00:44:59.591 --> 00:45:05.328 - who put out some of these tools. These days, it's incredibly easy to do. If none of you, let me just 00:45:05.328 --> 00:45:10.782 - ask, how many of you have tried to create an AI generated picture or video at some point? Okay. 00:45:11.330 --> 00:45:19.214 - I'd say at least a third, right? Bordering on half. What was that experience like? Was it pretty easy 00:45:19.214 --> 00:45:27.253 - to do? Yeah? Yeah, Alan, as well? Okay, okay. If you don't mind me asking, what tool did you use? Yeah. 00:45:27.253 --> 00:45:35.601 - Okay. Most all of the big AI platforms can do this now, right? So Jim and I, for example, Google's version. 00:45:35.601 --> 00:45:40.702 - Sora, which is like this basically slop on steroids from open AI. 00:45:40.834 --> 00:45:47.070 - I mean, you name it, it's incredibly easy. And it's frankly, it's just so easy and it requires basically 00:45:47.070 --> 00:45:53.129 - no technological sophistication at this point that the cat's completely out of the bag, right? So the 00:45:53.129 --> 00:45:59.127 - only real options are legislation to really hold tech platforms fully accountable, buck stops there, 00:45:59.127 --> 00:46:03.582 - you can't put it on the users, right? Or we have to think about, you know, 00:46:03.682 --> 00:46:09.662 - everything else that would be nice, but isn't going to change things, you know, full stop. It's going 00:46:09.662 --> 00:46:15.524 - to be a long-term evolution, basically digital citizenship training, right? That's important. We do 00:46:15.524 --> 00:46:21.504 - it in schools. We could do a better job. But frankly, there's not a lot of other fantasias out there. 00:46:21.504 --> 00:46:27.953 - Okay. Here in the US, we're also, you know, we have, I don't want to say handcuffs exactly, but we definitely 00:46:27.953 --> 00:46:32.350 - have our freedom of movement at the federal level limited because of this. 00:46:32.546 --> 00:46:37.968 - Right? So if you're not familiar, Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, this is what gives 00:46:37.968 --> 00:46:43.553 - those shields to those tech platforms. OK? So if it wasn't for this law, and it was passed with really 00:46:43.553 --> 00:46:49.030 - good intentions, and frankly, it made a lot of sense in the 90s, because at that time, you could sue 00:46:49.030 --> 00:46:54.506 - the equivalent of Google or Meta or Facebook, you name it, because of the content they host on their 00:46:54.506 --> 00:47:00.146 - site. So if there was hate speech that you came across on Facebook, you could sue Facebook. Right? This 00:47:00.146 --> 00:47:02.206 - was the law saying you can't do that. 00:47:02.594 --> 00:47:07.964 - All right, simply put. And because of that, that's really changed the incentives for these companies 00:47:07.964 --> 00:47:13.280 - to not really moderate as much as they could. The issue is everybody agrees they don't like section 00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:18.650 - 230 anymore, but nobody can come together and come up with a consensus about what do we do about it? 00:47:18.650 --> 00:47:24.126 - All right. Like Biden, for example, and Trump agree on almost nothing. They both hated this. Okay. But 00:47:24.126 --> 00:47:29.708 - what comes next? If you take this down, you know, the incentives can go one extreme or the other. Either 00:47:29.708 --> 00:47:30.878 - it's super moderated, 00:47:31.010 --> 00:47:36.371 - sanitized, or digital hellscape, right? There's not a lot of movement in between the two. So that's 00:47:36.371 --> 00:47:42.001 - why we still have it, but it does limit a little bit what we can do at the federal level and as a result 00:47:42.001 --> 00:47:47.576 - at the state level. What are other countries doing? Well, a lot of experimentation. I mentioned Ukraine 00:47:47.576 --> 00:47:52.991 - before. In the UK, actually, they treat coding as a second language. All their kids are getting some 00:47:52.991 --> 00:47:54.814 - coding as they go through school. 00:47:55.010 --> 00:47:59.949 - And they're also doing digital citizen training, including spotting AI and deep fake content as part 00:47:59.949 --> 00:48:04.888 - of that. They can do that, of course, because it's the UK. There's a national curriculum. They don't 00:48:04.888 --> 00:48:10.071 - have the same setup that we have here in the States. But that doesn't mean we school districts, including 00:48:10.071 --> 00:48:15.059 - MCCSC and otherwise, couldn't learn from some of those experiences and help kind of raise the overall 00:48:15.059 --> 00:48:19.949 - level of cyber hygiene and awareness. There's also some major international initiatives. The Munich 00:48:19.949 --> 00:48:21.758 - AI Election Accords are one of them. 00:48:21.890 --> 00:48:27.193 - So all the major democracies, this was about a year and a half ago now, and all the tech platforms got 00:48:27.193 --> 00:48:32.341 - on board with that to limit the spread of disinformation, deep fakes, and violent extremism online. 00:48:32.341 --> 00:48:37.592 - But again, they're norms, right? So what happens when they're violated? This gives you a sense on the 00:48:37.592 --> 00:48:42.894 - AI side, what's happening at the regional level and the national level. I kept the US executive order, 00:48:42.894 --> 00:48:48.094 - even though it's been repealed, just to give you a flavor for what it would have done. So in the EU, 00:48:48.094 --> 00:48:49.278 - they have this kind of 00:48:49.378 --> 00:48:55.278 - three-tier structure for what's the most problematic uses of AI, all right? Elections is one of them, 00:48:55.278 --> 00:49:01.236 - all right? But there's some other things too, like spotting somebody's emotional state in public. That 00:49:01.236 --> 00:49:07.136 - was also banned, okay? Social credit scores of the kind they do in China, that was also banned in the 00:49:07.136 --> 00:49:13.499 - EU. Certain healthcare applications, certain autonomous driving applications are much more heavily regulated. 00:49:13.499 --> 00:49:18.878 - So they have this three-tier structure that we don't have, okay? In the US, what do we have? 00:49:19.106 --> 00:49:24.740 - Well, one, a lot of action at the state level. So California has really filled the gap here along with 00:49:24.740 --> 00:49:30.265 - a variety of other states, including with regards to some new prohibitions on what you can and can't 00:49:30.265 --> 00:49:36.064 - spread online and penalties for tech companies that violate some of those. And I can go into more details 00:49:36.064 --> 00:49:41.753 - if folks are curious. This is what the executive order would have done if it would have stayed in place 00:49:41.753 --> 00:49:47.934 - basically for these big large language models that have a national security implications for what they roll out. 00:49:48.162 --> 00:49:54.079 - They would have had to get basically a red team pre-approval first. But again, that's now gone by the 00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:59.996 - wayside. Okay. Important role for international law in all of this. If we had more time, you know, we 00:49:59.996 --> 00:50:01.214 - could talk about it. 00:50:01.346 --> 00:50:06.741 - But you can also just read the book, which is great. It's a good beach read for spring break. I promise 00:50:06.741 --> 00:50:12.084 - it's going to help you feel good. This gives you a sense for all the contributors where they're coming 00:50:12.084 --> 00:50:17.323 - from. As you can tell, lots of universities, lots of institutions all around the world. Andy Grotto, 00:50:17.323 --> 00:50:22.614 - who was in the White House, the Office of the National Cyber Advisor during the Obama administration, 00:50:22.614 --> 00:50:28.113 - he's now at Stanford, did a great piece looking at the history of US election security. I'd really hardly 00:50:28.113 --> 00:50:29.150 - recommend that one. 00:50:30.402 --> 00:50:35.638 - And ultimately, I'll just leave us with thinking about this. It's a whole of society approach, right? 00:50:35.638 --> 00:50:40.874 - As Len Ostrom famously said, there are no panaceas, and trust is the most important resource. There's 00:50:40.874 --> 00:50:46.059 - not a lot of trust to go around these days. I know, I know. But this is an area where I think we can 00:50:46.059 --> 00:50:51.244 - come together. I think the peace-building literature is so important in that regard. And think about 00:50:51.244 --> 00:50:53.246 - all the different layers here locally. 00:50:53.474 --> 00:50:58.801 - In working with a state, because even frankly, some things like protecting kids from social media, they're 00:50:58.801 --> 00:51:04.029 - pretty bipartisan these days, right? And when push comes to shove, a lot of the stuff that we're talking 00:51:04.029 --> 00:51:09.306 - about here is still pretty bipartisan too. So there's a lot more that we can do. And ideally, do together 00:51:09.306 --> 00:51:12.542 - so that we have democracies helping each other around the world. 00:51:12.674 --> 00:51:18.513 - And we've seen some green shoots in that regard. I saw some wonderful things happening in India earlier 00:51:18.513 --> 00:51:24.296 - today and across the global South. And I hope there's a time here in the US where we can more actively 00:51:24.296 --> 00:51:29.911 - contribute to that conversation at the federal level too. So again, I will pause there to make sure 00:51:29.911 --> 00:51:35.862 - that we have time for at least a couple questions or thoughts, but just thanks again for the opportunity. 00:51:35.862 --> 00:51:38.782 - And don't let any of this convince you not to vote. 00:51:38.882 --> 00:51:49.146 - All right, that's how foreign adversaries that are trying to undermine confidence, and even domestically, 00:51:49.146 --> 00:51:58.925 - that's how they win, right? So cast a vote, participate. That's the main takeaway. So yeah, happy to 00:51:58.925 --> 00:52:00.862 - take any questions. 00:52:02.434 --> 00:52:09.634 - So thank you, Scott. That was amazing. That was incredible. And just thinking about you and the depth 00:52:09.634 --> 00:52:16.693 - of knowledge that you have and the security that we have that you're delivering information that we 00:52:16.693 --> 00:52:23.963 - can believe seems to be- Or am I a deep fake? You don't know. Exactly. Or you're a plant of some kind. 00:52:23.963 --> 00:52:27.422 - That's right. But anyway, my question really is, 00:52:27.650 --> 00:52:35.603 - more sort of a very general question of your sense of whether or not disinformation and fake information 00:52:35.603 --> 00:52:43.329 - is propelling itself into our universe to the point where all of the information that you've provided 00:52:43.329 --> 00:52:50.979 - to us, all of the serious research, all of the dedicated commitment that you've had is being sort of 00:52:50.979 --> 00:52:55.902 - washed away by this alternative reality that seems to be sort of 00:52:56.066 --> 00:53:03.038 - like the slop that's coming towards us. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would still like to think, you know, Alan, 00:53:03.038 --> 00:53:09.878 - that this stuff resonates and is broadly useful, but you're right. It is an echo chamber. And in a lot 00:53:09.878 --> 00:53:17.182 - of these, especially on social media, those algorithms and how they're feeding all of us matter a lot, right? 00:53:17.538 --> 00:53:22.977 - So I think it's up to us in higher education to inform and push back and burst those bubbles and to 00:53:22.977 --> 00:53:28.470 - shine a light that they exist because oftentimes it is just too easy to fall into a groove and just, 00:53:28.470 --> 00:53:34.181 - you know, be very, very happy with your own little echo chamber, right? So that's why I think, you know, 00:53:34.181 --> 00:53:39.294 - work like this, again, that's open access and freely available is, you know, super important. 00:53:39.490 --> 00:53:47.258 - So I would appreciate that chance to, you know, talk about it and would love to share, you know, preach 00:53:47.258 --> 00:53:54.727 - the gospel as it were to any other folks in groups who, you know, might come to mind too. So in the 00:53:54.727 --> 00:54:00.478 - Netherlands, what happened with that election? Was it accurate? Do you know? 00:54:00.962 --> 00:54:07.494 - It was okay, but they were able to do it in part again because they had the system set up to do that 00:54:07.494 --> 00:54:13.962 - hand counting. It's a different scale than we're used to, but it was not a problem because they got 00:54:13.962 --> 00:54:20.558 - the intelligence in advance and they had the backup processes available. So that was a good news tale 00:54:20.558 --> 00:54:22.046 - about what was caught. 00:54:22.146 --> 00:54:27.505 - That was OK. There have been a lot of other attempts, as you would guess, across Europe, especially 00:54:27.505 --> 00:54:32.971 - given the ongoing war there, to undermine confidence and manipulate the results of a lot of different 00:54:32.971 --> 00:54:38.651 - elections. But they have something called a cooperation group in the EU, where basically all the election 00:54:38.651 --> 00:54:44.117 - officials across the entirety of the EU get together regularly, share best practices, and they invest 00:54:44.117 --> 00:54:46.046 - a ton in kind of raising all boats. 00:54:46.146 --> 00:54:52.574 - And that's mirrored as well. They have something called the Digital Services Act. And that's the thing 00:54:52.574 --> 00:54:59.002 - that has really rigid requirements for the tech platforms. And if they breach them, up to 4% of global 00:54:59.002 --> 00:55:05.430 - total revenue is on the line. So they stand up and they take it seriously. So even in the war in Gaza, 00:55:05.430 --> 00:55:11.671 - that was mostly regulated by the EU through the Digital Services Act in terms of what was being fed 00:55:11.671 --> 00:55:15.166 - and disinformation and deepfakes online. Last question. 00:55:15.490 --> 00:55:23.191 - long refrain that the US innovates while the EU regulates. And this is another example of that. So you 00:55:23.191 --> 00:55:30.966 - talked a bit about just the, and I'm seeing this intensely in social media that the amount of fake news 00:55:30.966 --> 00:55:38.891 - has kicked up tremendously even in the last few months. Like just, I'm seeing stories that are completely 00:55:38.891 --> 00:55:45.470 - fabricated and written in a way that looks authentic and it's tricking a lot of people. 00:55:45.570 --> 00:55:52.976 - on all political sides. And what I'm wondering about from the corporate side of things is does I am 00:55:52.976 --> 00:56:00.679 - under this suspicion that that financially benefits these social media companies and so they don't have 00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:08.382 - an interest to change it and fix it. But what I'm curious is if is the technology available to actually 00:56:08.962 --> 00:56:15.735 - limit, strictly limit that or even eliminate it? Like, does that exist at this point? And could they 00:56:15.735 --> 00:56:22.643 - implement it if they were had the will or were forced to? Yeah, so unfortunately, we are headed in the 00:56:22.643 --> 00:56:29.551 - wrong direction and a lot of these platforms. So a lot of the trust and safety teams have been gutted, 00:56:29.551 --> 00:56:36.190 - especially at formerly Twitter, now X, but even at, you know, Google, even at Microsoft, right? So 00:56:36.418 --> 00:56:42.963 - That's a problematic starting point, because the teams that were there that had the institutional knowledge 00:56:42.963 --> 00:56:49.326 - and had the memory of how this was done, a lot of them are gone now. So that's the starting point, which 00:56:49.326 --> 00:56:55.387 - is a tough one. Can you do it is another really good question. So the utility and the technology of 00:56:55.387 --> 00:57:01.568 - how we spot AI deepfakes, it kind of varies per application. In short, we're good at pictures. We can 00:57:01.568 --> 00:57:06.174 - spot that pretty well. Not so good at sound, and we're really bad at video. 00:57:06.338 --> 00:57:11.995 - believe it or not, in terms of automatically. We can see it oftentimes with our naked eyes, better than 00:57:11.995 --> 00:57:17.490 - the actual computer vision, the systems that are monitoring for this stuff. So that means we can get 00:57:17.490 --> 00:57:23.256 - ahead of some of these challenges more easily than others. And there's some legislation around the world, 00:57:23.256 --> 00:57:27.934 - but there's also, on the norm building side, some efforts to require basically labels 00:57:28.162 --> 00:57:34.162 - kind of like we have for other things. You picture like Energy Star or something that tells you something 00:57:34.162 --> 00:57:40.275 - meaningful about the energy use or the privacy and security of a product. Do that for AI generated content, 00:57:40.275 --> 00:57:46.105 - right? And there's no reason the state couldn't do that, right? And potentially, you know, the federal 00:57:46.105 --> 00:57:51.765 - government could at some point come into that too. As you could guess, it's tricky for sure. And if 00:57:51.765 --> 00:57:56.350 - it happens, it's gonna happen in the EU first. That was too much doom and gloom. 00:57:58.210 --> 00:58:05.210 - Sorry. Thank you all. Scott, thank you for a very interesting presentation. Your credit to our club. 00:58:05.210 --> 00:58:12.488 - In honor of your talk, a donation will be made this quarter to Amethyst House. I'd like to thank today's 00:58:12.488 --> 00:58:19.557 - volunteers, Diana Hoffman, Hank Walter, Alann Barker wearing three hats, Joy Harder, Jeff Richardson, 00:58:19.557 --> 00:58:25.310 - Michael Shermas. Next regular meeting will be here in the Georgian Room next week. 00:58:25.890 --> 00:58:33.982 - Audrey McCluskey will speak to us about capturing joy, a childhood in Jim Crow America. Tyler, if you 00:58:33.982 --> 00:58:42.391 - would put up the graphic for the four-way test and please stand if you're able and join me. Of the things 00:58:42.391 --> 00:58:50.404 - we think, say or do, first, is it the truth? Second, is it fair to all concern? Third, will it build 00:58:50.404 --> 00:58:53.022 - goodwill and better friendships? 00:58:53.506 --> 00:58:58.302 - Fourth will be beneficial to all concerned. And fifth, is it fun?